The Joe Rogan Experience - #872 - Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson

Episode Date: November 15, 2016

Graham Hancock is an English author and journalist, well known for books such as "Fingerprints Of The Gods" & his latest book "Magicians of the Gods" is available now. Randall Carlson is a master builder and architectural designer, teacher, geometrician, geomythologist, geological explorer and renegade scholar. Comet Research Group Crowdfunding: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/killer-comets-are-coming/ Magicians of the Gods: http://grahamhancock.com/magicians/ Graham Hancock website: http://grahamhancock.com/ Randall Carlson websites: http://sacredgeometryinternational.com/ & http://geocosmicrex.com/

Joe Rogan, experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. And we're live. Gentlemen, here we go again. What's happening? Back in the room. A pleasure to see you guys, as always. This is one of my favorite podcasts that we ever do. And this is very timely, because first of all, the big New York Times article about the possibility of a comet hitting Los Angeles, the preparations for what they would do if a comet hit Los Angeles. And the comet known as Donald Trump that's hit the United States. He's even got the hair.

It's just the whole thing. I mean, if the end of the world was coming, boy, it's all on the wall. The writing's all there. It's kind of crazy. So what's the latest and the greatest? Well, the latest and the greatest is, I mean, last year when we sat down with you, I think it was last November. Yeah, it was almost a year. Got floated in the discussion the idea that this really important comet research that's going on, which is just changing our whole view of history and prehistory and of the future of humanity,

that it would be good to make a film about this and crowdfund it. I actually mentioned that to the scientists, and they said what we really need is more funding for our research. And so they've, inspired basically by your show, they have put out a crowdfunding campaign, which is linked on my website. It's the Comet Research Group, and it's a big story right now. So how can people find it really quickly? It's Indiegogo, Comet Research Group. Much quicker way.

Just go to my website, grahamhancock.com, and there's a revolving banner, which is the Comet Research Group. Click on that, and you're in business. Beautiful. Okay, grahamhancock.com and then crowdfunding for comet research. And so what are they trying to put together? Well, they're wanting to... You see, the thing is these guys have actually not had any official funding. This is a group of major highly credentialed scientists who for the last decade

have been investigating the extraordinary story of a massive series of comet impacts on the North American ice cap 12,800 years ago. That is the global cataclysm that wipes out a whole civilization from prehistory. So that's why it's of interest to me. They're not coming at it from that point of view. They're coming at it from rediscovering something that we've lost about ourselves. Something that's really important to understand the role of cataclysms in the story of the Earth. And they need to do much more research. So they need to go back to Greenland and look for the nanodiamonds in the Greenland ice cores. There's an ancient city, which they're not revealing the

name of, which they're pretty certain was wiped out by a comet impact about four and a half thousand years ago. They want to go there and investigate that. So there's a lot of, which they're pretty certain was wiped out by a comet impact about four and a half thousand years ago. They want to go there and investigate that. So there's a lot of fieldwork they need to do to drive home this hypothesis and to, frankly, put down the opposition, because there's been so much opposition to this idea from people with vested interest in other theories. And that's why these guys have not got funding. So the only place they're going to get funding to do this further research is from members of the general public. That's what we're hoping that will happen.

It's called the Comet Research Group. There's a banner on my site and all the links are there to their crowdfunding, to their website, which is full of masses of scientific information, and to their Facebook page as well. It is a very unusual thing, the fact that we know that comets and all sorts of various large objects have impacted the Earth. We see the craters. We know they exist. But it's so rarely discussed. It's so strange. If it wasn't for this article in the New York Times, I can't remember when the last time it even came up. And it's such a huge issue.

It's a massive issue. It's a massive issue. Both Randall and I have really given a great deal of thought to this. And I think, Randall, the point is that catastrophes are the untold story of our past. We were given a little, we were given a little hint of it. February of 2013, Chelyabinsk, Siberia. Remember the event? Yeah, yeah. Now that was just a little cosmic speck. Came in, it was about 50 feet in diameter, which is about, and it came in at a fairly low angle. It blew up nearly 18... Get that thing right in front of you. Right in front of me, like this. Yeah, if you flatten it out, it's usually easier. How's this? Is this better? Yeah. Alright. There we go. So it came in. I think it exploded 12 miles, about 20 kilometers up in the atmosphere. But it was still enough to damage thousands of buildings and injure 1,500 people. Now, the thing about that one is if it had been slightly larger, if it had come in at a slightly steeper angle, a little bit higher velocity, you could have had thousands of fatalities rather than just injuries. And that would have been major headline news at that point.

As it was, it's already forgotten. But you do remember that event? We may even have talked about that. I believe we did. I think we even showed videos of it. What's fascinating is Russia has so many of those dash cam cameras because they have so much insurance fraud apparently over there. People slam into each other all the time and they want to record it.

So we're fortunate enough to have so many of those videos because of that. Which puts it on the record, whereas otherwise it would not be. I think people don't like to talk about cataclysms and catastrophes. And actually, nor do I. Nobody wants a horrible cataclysm to occur but this is the point which is that the prospect of a comet or asteroid cataclysm on the earth is actually much higher than has been told to us up till now and something can be done about it. It doesn't have to be the end of the world. We don't have to you know say okay it's

all over forget about it. Quite the contrary this. This is just something that would be prudent and rational for the human species to do. And amongst many other imprudent and irrational things that we focus on instead, we should be focusing on a bit on this. Well, at least just to heighten awareness of it. And also the possibility that we've been nailed a bunch of times and we've forgotten about it. And this is, this is the big thing that you've been dealing with your entire career. This skepticism about past civilizations. I mean, I got into it with Michael Shermer, who's a friend of mine, who's a very famous skeptic. I got into him with it yesterday, um, because I posted that you were going to be on and

he started chirping something about civilizations 12,000 years ago. Where's the evidence? I'm like, dude, you don't, you're saying this and you don't even know about Gobekli Tepe. So I sent him Gobekli Tepe and literally like five hours later, he wrote something claiming that, well, that was made by hunter gatherers. It was all just really to sort of suit his narrative. But he doesn't know that.

No one knows that. Nobody knows that. They're so determined to keep the existing model. And when new evidence comes in which can't be explained by the existing model, they just try to explain away

the new evidence and not think maybe it's time to change our theory. You know, this is the unfortunate thing. But cataclysms, a global cataclysm, the massive event that happened 12,800 years ago,

the Younger Dryas impacts, which were a series of comet impacts on the North American ice cap. This accounts for why we don't have a lot of evidence, hard evidence, of a 12,000-plus-year-old civilization, because it went down in that catastrophe. It was wiped out. I've been trying to amass the evidence, actually, that complements what Graham is doing, and it really answers that question that Shermer brought up. And it's a legitimate question. Where's the evidence? But I'm quite sure that Shermer is not really educated in the extreme events that have really taken place on this planet in the last 10,000 to 20,000 years, and what that would do to any kind of evidence and maybe while we have some time here today I brought a few things to try to convey some sense of how extreme some of these changes have been and how one would actually be quite shocked to find anything existing in the aftermath of

these events well Michael Shermer is a brilliant guy I don't mean to shit on him but but what what is disturbing to me is that his knee-jerk reaction to this without having any research at all in the subject, not knowing at all about Gobekli Tepe, which was discovered in, what, the 90s? Yeah, 96. So this is, to me, this is something that I've looked at because of you guys

in great depth. When I read your book, I was just completely enthralled with this idea of history having some sort of rise and fall and civilization having these resets. So I've been absorbed in it for a long time. But what's fascinating to me is people that consider themselves to be skeptical or you know, or I mean, he's a skeptic professionally. Sure. But many people who question anything that's outside of what they've been told, as soon

as they hear any sort of a theory outside of what they've been told, they immediately call quackery. Absolutely. But it's a weird knee-jerk reaction to something, especially when you talk about asteroids, that is a very real part of our past. We have a ton of evidence. I mean, there's actual craters that you can look at on Earth. The moon, which has no atmosphere, is littered with them. And if we look at the moon as a model for what could possibly have happened to Earth, or at least, you know, some of them, obviously with the Moon having no atmosphere, it's going to get hit a lot more than we are. Sure. But still, I mean, this is a very real situation that this solar system, you know, at least as far as we know, the only solar system that has to deal with this. But we know this is a real issue.

I mean, we've seen impacts. Well, it's like you just said. On the one hand, you have Earth scientists looking at the Earth. And what they're realizing is that the Earth is pockmarked with scars. And each of these scars represents a tremendously powerful catastrophe that's happened in the history of the Earth. Now, that's accepted by mainstream science, that major catastrophes have happened in the history of the Earth. Now, that's accepted by mainstream science, that major catastrophes have happened in the history of the Earth. But where this thing now is about to come full circle is the recognition that these

kinds of catastrophes have also influenced the rise and fall of civilization, and a lot more extremely than has been recognized up to this point. And while geologists and Earth scientists are looking at the surface of the Earth and realizing that etched into the surface of the Earth or imprinted into the surface of the Earth are hundreds of scars, of which undoubtedly are only a small percentage of the total that exist, at the same time, astronomers are looking out into near-Earth space and discovering that we cohabit space with a lot of stuff.

It's not as empty as we thought. And just within the last six or seven weeks, we've had two close flybys. Of previously undiscovered asteroids. Of previously undiscovered asteroids. This is the point, because NASA keeps saying, well, there's, you know, there's, we've counted 1,650 asteroids and none of them are going to hit the Earth in the next hundred years. Well, yeah, that's true. But what about all the ones they haven't counted, which are estimated to run into hundreds of thousands

and which haven't been seen yet? And what happens is we see them roughly ten days before they pass the Earth. That is not enough time to do anything about them. But we have time if we're prepared to be rational and reasonable as a civilization to take care of this issue. Now, when you're dealing with hundreds of thousands of near-Earth objects that are flying around,

what are the things that could be done to protect Earth? You can paint. It's low-tech, actually. You can paint one side of the asteroid, affect its albedo so that the sun's rays push differentially on one side rather than the other. That will shift its orbit slightly. It has to be calculated. You can give it a little knock with a rocket, basically. You don't want to blow it up. You don't want to turn your one big piece of artillery shell into buckshot. You don't want to do that. You want to move it into a safer orbit. You can mount jets on it. People are looking now to mining asteroids. Of course, our society always goes, our civilization always goes for where the money is to be made. But if we can mine asteroids, we can move asteroids.

And the technology is there. And ironically, the most dangerous asteroids are going to be the ones that are the closest to the Earth, which are the most accessible. And the asteroids pretty much have unbelievable amounts of resources on them. have unbelievable amounts of resources on them. I mean, pretty much everything that is being mined on the Earth can be found in asteroids, from the hydrocarbons to precious metals to all of these things. And we're not that far away from technologically being able to actually, you know, mount expeditions to asteroids and mine them.

And that's the solution I kind of prefer, because, again, these things are tremendous sources of all kinds of things that would be usable to an expanding civilization, and we could feasibly, within a decade or two, be mining asteroids. And, again, the ones that are the easiest to access are also going to be the ones that are more dangerous, because they're the ones that are coming the closest to the earth. And another point here is that there is one specific danger. There's one specific, if you like, region of the sky that really needs to be looked at.

And this is theicians of the Gods, because of this discovery that there's a thing called the Taurid meteor stream, which is 30 million kilometers wide and which envelops the solar system. And the Earth on its orbit around the sun passes through the Taurid meteor stream twice a year. Turns out the Taurid meteor stream is the debris of a giant comet that came in to the inner solar system about 20,000 years ago. That thing was at least 100 kilometers in diameter, according to their calculations. It may have been more so. And then, like other comets, like Shoemaker-Levy 9, which spectacularly hit Jupiter in 1994, it began to break up into multiple fragments. And those carry on orbiting on the original path,

and as they break up more and more, they de degrade and small bits and large bits break off and it gradually fills up a kind of huge hoop of debris that the earth is passing through twice a year it takes us 12 days to pass through it we do two and a half million kilometers a day on our orbital path 12 days to get through the torrid meteor stream and the scientists of the Comet Research Group have made the point that a big object out of the taurid meteor stream, multiple objects as a matter of fact, was what hit the North American ice cap 12,800 years ago. It looks like there was a second series of impacts 11,600 years ago from the same source. It looks like there were other impacts

in the Bronze Age. The most recent, almost definite impact out of the torrid meteor stream was Tunguska in Siberia back in 1908. That hit on the 30th of June 1908 and that's at the peak of the torrid June shower when we passed through the torrids in June and in November. And what they're saying is we really need to focus on this torrid meteor stream. Their calculations are that there are hundreds and hundreds of massive objects in that torrid meteor stream. And, you know, as a comet breaks up into bits, it becomes those bits become asteroids. And those asteroids are circling in the torrid meteor stream. And I've likened it to strapping on a blindfold and crossing an eight lane interstate twice a year and just hoping that we don't hit any heavy traffic, you know, that we meet bicycles or motorcycles rather than trucks. But the trucks are out there. And what the Comet Research Group scientists are saying is we need now to be in-depth investigating the Taurid meteor stream because it appears to be the

hidden hand in human civilization. It has wiped out episodes of our history in the past, and there's no reason to expect that it won't do so again unless we do something about it, because the remnants of that original giant comet are still circling in the Taurus meteor stream, and they are fucking dangerous. Now, how is this being received in mainstream science? I mean, is there any resistance to this? Because it seems like this is all pretty straightforward and traceable. Mostly being ignored.

Mostly being ignored. And why do you think that is? By scientists who have a vested interest in other ideas. First of all, there's a vested interest in not admitting that cataclysms are important at all. This goes right back to, really to the 19th century when science began to take shape in the form that we know it now. And they wanted to separate themselves off, understandably, from superstition. So they didn't want anything to do with something that sounds like the biblical flood, for example. They felt they would be contaminated by that.

And they preferred to explain any cataclysmic evidence as a result of gradual processes. So you really think it's because of the reluctance to accept religion or religious ideas or to separate themselves from it? No, I think that's where it started. That's where it started. They wanted to separate themselves off from that. Now they've gone a long way from that. And many, many scientists have got a vested interest in what is called uniformitarianism

or gradualism. And they don't like to hear about cataclysms having any major impact on the story of life on Earth. So is it sort of the momentum of these initial desires to escape religious influence that have sort of led them down this path? Yes. And then there are others who have a vested interest in current accounts of global warming. There's others who have a vested interest in extinctions taking place now. They want to say that our ancestors were responsible for the extinction of all the mammoths and mastodons and so on and so forth. Whereas the Comet Research Group scientists are saying, no, those huge megafauna of North America were wiped out as a result of the massive series of impacts on the North American ice cap.

I'm reading a book right now by Dan Flores, a really interesting book called Coyote America. He's a wildlife historian, and he is really an expert on all the different forms of wildlife in North America, where they originated, where they migrated to. And one of the more fascinating things about it is he's talking about all these animals that went extinct, you know, 10,000 plus years ago, this mass extinction event. And never once does he bring up cataclysms and there's all these different ideas, and one of the big ones being that human beings with atlatls, which is like really a very weird sort of a spear-throwing device, wiped out the woolly mammoths and all these other animals.

To me, it's a lunatic. It seems so preposterous. It's a lunatic idea. Also, if you have any contact with hunter-gatherers today, you find that hunter-gatherer peoples don't overkill their game. They hunt them respectfully. They take what they need, and they leave the rest because it's a renewable resource for them.

So I don't think hunter-gatherers wiped out the mammoths in North America. The evidence is compelling, it was the comment. Well, the evidence that you brought up when you were here the first time, when you showed the images of all those mammoths that had been literally knocked over with broken legs from the impact of something, mass burial grounds, like these mass, not burial grounds, obviously, but mass casualties. Mortality sites. Mortality sites.

That's a good way of putting it. That's a good way of putting it. Yeah. In fact, Graham, I visited one up in South Dakota called Hot Springs, where there's just several dozen. Nobody knows how many are actually there, but there's at least several dozen, two species, woolly mammoths and Colombian mammoths that have been entombed. And while we were there, interestingly, you know, the guide, the woman giving us the tour,

there was kind of giving a gradualist explanation that, well, over long periods of time, these mammoths wandered into a sinkhole and were too dumb to get out. And so they became entombed. And I asked the question, well, what studies have been done on the sedimentary matrix in which their remains are being found? Because as I'm looking at this sedimentary matrix, I'm seeing a massive deposit that, in other words, a deposit that was instantaneous. And when I brought that up, she actually got very irritated. And really, oh, yeah, dismissed my question. Didn't know what we've got. It all worked out. You know, we know about that. Well, what is it? Well, you just we've got it all worked out and then

immediately went on with her narrative like but yet i had an article that was actually written by one of the original scientists that worked on the site and he he his description was well it could have been that but also as an alternative and he used the term bloat and float that what you had was woolly mammoths that had been caught in a flood drowned and their bloated carcasses floated into a depression in the landscape and that's where they were entombed and that makes a whole lot more sense to me than the fact that you know individually over several thousand years these in these mammoths wandered into this sinkhole and then couldn't get out but you got to bear in mind

we're talking about you know at the end of the last ice age, 120 roughly species of megafauna that disappeared, which is about equivalent to the same number of megafaunal species that inhabits the Earth today. Well, it was a short period of time where something like 65% of the North American mammals went extinct. 75%. 75%. Yeah. Very short period of time, right? Very short period of time.

Pretty much totally coincident with that period called the Younger Dryas. And so there's nothing resembling what we're capable of doing today back then. I mean, when you look at human extinction events, human-caused extinction events, it's very logical. What we're doing today with pollution and the expanse of civilization and weapons are super sophisticated. If we wanted to, we could wipe out a lot of different species. Yeah, but what we're actually seeing is that at the end of what's called the Bolling Allorod, which was the gradual warming at the end of the last ice age that preceded the sudden catastrophic change at 12,800,

was the Clovis culture that existed for 300 to 500 years, I think. Yes. But they suddenly were gone, right? Exactly simultaneous with the mammoths. And then there are interesting studies coming out now showing that at least continental-wide, there was apparently a major human population crash exactly coincident with the megafaunal extinctions

because you had quarries that had been mined for centuries that are suddenly abandoned. You have campsites that had generations of debris and toolkits accumulating and so on, debris from the fluting of the spear points and so on, that are suddenly abandoned, right? So the evidence actually suggests that the human population crashed, So the evidence actually suggests that the human population crashed, which would certainly imply that they would have been far less capable of wiping out all of these species of megafauna. Also, the studies of their diet and their life ways suggest that they were quite diverse.

They were hunter-gatherers, and they focused mostly on small game. They ate a lot of fish, a lot of shellfish. They gathered food. And why would they go after the biggest, most dangerous animal in the whole array of animals? And with incredible efficiency, hunt them to extinction in 100 years. It doesn't make sense. No, it makes no sense at all. It seems pretty silly. Something else from that time, if I may say, Randall mentioned the Clovis culture. This is, for a very long time, really until just a couple of years ago,

all of the mainstream academics in the fields of archaeology and anthropology were saying there were no human beings in North America before, let's say, 13,000 years ago, give or take 500 years. They came across the Bering Land Bridge. The Bering Strait at that time was above water. Sea level was lower.

They entered the Americas then. They weren't here before. Now, in the last two to three years, there's just been a whole raft of new scientific research. And no scientist today is prepared to defend the Clovis model anymore. It's accepted, of course, that there have been human beings in America for 50,000, 60,000 years. And there's weird genetic links. Like, for example, there's a trace that connects Aboriginal Australians with North Americans. They had a common ancestor.

It's a very peculiar thing that's going on. And so what happens is that actually these scientific models, which constrain and restrict research for so long, do get overthrown. And that Clovis model is being overthrown. And what the missing piece of the puzzle, I think, for everybody working in this field, is the cataclysm, the comet, what happened between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago, which changed everything. Is it bizarre to you guys or frustrating in any way that this is not a mainstream idea? This is very much fringe.

But yet, it's not something that we don't have any evidence about. Whenever I put out a book, immediately there's this huge hostile reaction to it. Like the Michael Shermer thing that we were talking about. Like the Michael Shermer thing. I mean, I would say Magicians of the Gods, which I published in 2015, which deals with this whole comet issue, is actually the most thoroughly documented, the most thoroughly referenced book that I've ever written. It's calm. It's measured. They actually don't read it.

They just say, oh, Hancock's brought out another book. He's a pseudoscientist. That's what they always call me, or a pseudo-archaeologist. And it's obviously rubbish because it disagrees with everything that we know. Well, that's the point of the heretic in society, is to offer an alternative view and well-documented evidence. But it seems that we're dealing with such a deeply ingrained mindset, which is connected in curious ways to power structures in our society, that it's very difficult to change it.

Absolutely. And like Graham mentioned earlier, it went from a religious motive, I think, in the 19th century, and now it's more a political motive. And again, the idea that every day you'll find something coming from various factions that were destroying the earth, and the earth has never suffered this kind of assault on it before, and we're causing the sixth great mass extinction and we're going to cause catastrophic global warming if we pump another 50 or 100 parts per million of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere and and so what that has done is like many i won't say many but several of the scientists now that have been in the forefront of criticizing the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis are also very much involved in the global warming movement and the idea that we are now precipitating the sixth great mass

extinction. Having looked now at mass extinctions and been really an obsession of mine for about 30 years now, I've looked at everything from the Cretaceous Tertiary, the Permian Triassic, you know, right on down the line to the most recent one, which to me is really in some ways the most interesting because the most recent mass extinction that we're talking about is the one that took place while we humans were part of the story. Between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago, the Younger Dryas. Yes, the Younger Dryas, which is still an unexplained climate anomaly that happened. And I mentioned this, I think, in previous broadcasts. What you had was you had this spasm of extreme warming followed by rapid shifting into extreme cold, literally within a matter of a few years. extreme cold literally within a matter of a few years and we're talking about climate changes that are up to 15 degrees fahrenheit within perhaps one to five years which utterly dwarfs

anything that we've experienced in the last since the industrial revolution began and we still don't really understand and that's why this research is so important because now we understand that there was something cosmic that happened It's left its imprint in the landscape over what four continents five continents Yeah over over 50 million square kilometers of the Earth's surface There's a giant debris field of the stuff that is only produced by massive impacts these things come in at 70,000 miles an hour. And, you know, if they have any diameter at all, if they're 100 meters or more in diameter, they are going to hit the earth really hard. They're not going to burn up in the atmosphere. And when they do, they pack a

huge amount of kinetic energy, a huge amount of heat and shock, and that creates very definite a huge amount of heat and shock, and that creates very definite chemical products. So nanodiamonds, so carbon spherules, so melt glass, that's like the trinitite that was produced in nuclear explosions. All of these, when they're all found together in the same layer of soil, and when you can put a date on that layer of soil, and when it's all over the world, there's only one thing that can explain them, a massive cosmic impact.

I don't understand why this is controversial. I really don't. I mean, I do. I understand it because I know that once people start teaching things, once people start doing lectures and giving speeches, they want to stick to their guns and they want to somehow or another avoid anything that's going to contradict what they've been

espousing for so long. This is a game changer. This information, it changes everything. It changes the way we've looked at our past. It changes the whole story of archaeology and it changes the way we're going to look at the future. And I think that people in academia are reluctant to embrace that change. And they're afraid of being called pseudo-scientists because there's a whole lobby of skeptics who use this word pseudo-scient or pseudo archaeologist as an instant dismissal of other ideas and those who are in the profession they don't want to get tarred with that brush they want to keep themselves clean and I understand that but you're talking about

hard evidence yeah you're talking about this nuclear glass you're talking about nano diamonds you're talking about core samples that show this massive shift when you do the ice core samples, massive shift in temperature, and you're talking about very clear evidence of impacts that we know exist. It's not like a comet's a theory. No. It's not like it's Bigfoot or something. Like, you know, we're looking for the final piece of evidence that shows that a comet

is a real thing. Exactly. It's real. It's totally real, but it's so difficult for those who are invested in other models to accept. And unfortunately, they have the ear of the media. By the way, all the scientists in the Comet Research Group are absolutely mainstream scientists and they have taken a lot of flack from their colleagues for even daring to investigate this area.

That's why they've had no funding. They've had to fund themselves all the way along. It's so crazy. That is so crazy because this is not a controversial thing in my mind should be it should not be this is not an airy-fairy Thing we're not talking about psychics. We're not talking about UFOs. We're talking about something We know exists yeah, so to bury your head in the sand over something like this seems to me vested interest vested interest right now NASA is spending the equivalent of one attack helicopter a year on investigating the comet and asteroid danger. You know, $50 million a year. That's not that much. military equipment which we can use to slaughter one another in ever more sophisticated ways, but just $50 million a year on saving the Earth from a potential cataclysm that could put our civilization back into the Stone Age tomorrow.

And I don't mean to keep harping on Michael Shermer, because I like Michael, but he highlights this sort of natural inclination to poke fun at something that he has done no research on whatsoever. When I pointed out Gobekli Tepe and I sent him some articles from National Geographic, he went radio silent. I mean... He should know about it. He should.

It's astonishing the number of people who... For sure, without mocking it. Yeah. If you're going to mock it, you should actually know what you're mocking. And to say that Gobekli Tepe was created by hunter-gatherers, well, I'm sorry, that's just a theory.

That's not a fact. It doesn't seem very reasonable either. You have a sophisticated site with astronomical alignments with hundreds and hundreds of megalithic pillars weighing up to 20 tons each, the world's first perfectly aligned north-south building, which you can only do with astronomy. It's not enough to say, oh, they were just hunter-gatherers. They moved the stones from a half a mile away. Yeah. I mean, there's some serious sophistication.

I mean, how big were these stones? Well, the biggest one actually is still in the quarry. They left it because it had a fault in it. They clearly intended to move it 50 tons. You're looking at 20-foot high objects. And then it's the putting together of them. See, here's the it's the putting together of them see here's the problem hunter-gatherer societies are not the kinds of societies that produce large-scale fixed monuments why because they don't generate a surplus you can't

pay for somebody to become an architect and for those times somebody to become an astronomer you're busy hunting and gathering and that's what you do agriculture generates a surplus and that is the problem at Gobekli Tepe because there is no background. This site just appears out of nowhere amidst what appears to be a hunter-gatherer community but what they're not considering is the possibility we're looking at a technology transfer. That the survivors of a lost civilization who already had all that knowledge came to Gobekli Tepe and used that site as a center of initiation to teach the local hunter-gatherers how to do agriculture.

And that's now taken as the beginnings of civilization. I would say it is the reinvention or the remaking of civilization. So when we're looking back at Sumer and any artifacts we find in ancient Mesopotamia and that area, Iraq, those are the people that are sort of reinventing and relearning. Well, that's the thing. Actually, when we talk of Mesopotamia, which means between two rivers, the Tigris and the Euphrates, Gobekli Tepe is sitting right there in the headwaters between the Tigris and the Euphrates. And we cannot separate that from the later cultures that enter history 5,000, 6,000 years ago. They're part

of the lineage that descended from Gobekli Tepe times. And what's fascinating about Gobekli Tepe is the way it doesn't fit, the way there's no background to it, that you would expect to see them practicing, learning architectural skills. The oldest stuff should be the worst. And as they carry on, it gets better. That site ran for a thousand years. The best stuff is the oldest. A thousand years later, what they were producing wasn't so good. This is a real anomaly and it needs to be investigated, not mocked by skeptics, but actually explored to consider maybe this does rock the whole paradigm. And it's kind of ironic that in their desire to get away from the ancient myths and tales in the Bible, they've ignored those ancient myths and

tales, which all talk about cataclysms. Well, part of our modern psychology is to imagine that we are somehow so far advanced from our predecessors that we now represent the pinnacle of civilization. And anything that preceded us has to be looked upon almost as, you know, as if the workings of children. It requires a major psychological shift to admit or accept that our ancestors may have been far, far more sophisticated than we had imagined in our 19th century models, which basically still dominate thinking today. And, you know, in Graham's book, he devotes several chapters to the story of one 19th or 20th century heretic, J. Harlan Bretts. And his story, to me, kind of encapsulates the whole process of forcing this paradigm shift. And for years, he was out there exploring this

evidence that there had been this tremendous flooding in Washington state. And all of his critics were dismissive without ever even going out and looking at the evidence firsthand in the field. But what he did was he stuck to his guns for three decades and continued to amass evidence to the point where they just couldn't dismiss it anymore. And finally, a group of them went out and began to explore the landscapes for themselves. And one of the leaders, I think you talked about it in your book, James Gallulli, who was sort of the leader of the skeptic faction that had set out their sole purpose was to discredit and lay this whole flood heresy to rest once and for all. But he went out in the field, and they spent about eight days in the field, where he's seeing this evidence for himself over

and over again. And when you look at just one piece of it, you might be able to say, okay, there's other explanations for that. But what happens is when you get multiple lines of evidence all converging, and there's no way to individually explain away each one of those things other than just saying, oh, well, it's all coincidence. He, this James Gallulli, was honest enough so that after a week out there, they were in a place called Palouse Falls in southern Washington, which was one of these areas where these tremendous inland tsunamis swept across the land. And I actually just visited there about eight weeks ago.

I took a group of people out there and took them to Palouse Falls to show them right on the spot where James Gillooly was standing when he finally had his epiphany. Do you have any images of that that you brought with us? I have images. I can dig them up here. Yeah, I sure do. Yeah, I've got some really interesting images to show you. Which relates, because see this flooding stuff relates directly to the idea of the impact.

And we can get into a little bit of that, explaining how these parallel lines of evidence are now converging. But the interesting thing about Galuli was that in the descriptions of the trip, he wandered off by himself for a long time away from the group and was standing there looking at this massive cataract with 400-foot cliffs and this little tiny ribbon of water flowing over it and this huge canyon below it and these big boulders and he'd seen for a whole week he'd been seeing this stuff and it finally got to the point where it was

undeniable and he walked back to the group and the words out of his mouth verbatim were how could i have been so wrong and he finally admitted and at that that was like a turning point and now and again graham describes this very effectively in the book, how in a way the flooding phenomena was hijacked and then placed within this more gradualistic context really to avoid the fact that it was something so anomalous and such a departure from our modern experience that we had to look outside of our modern experience to find an explanation.

What they wanted to do was find something within our modern experience, and this is the cornerstone of the uniformitarian approach, is that we look for a modern example and then we extrapolate backwards from that. And so what they did was they saw, well, in the modern world, we have pro-glacial lakes, lakes that form in front of glaciers, and sometimes these proglacial lakes might be held in by an ice dam or another glacier. These ice dams will give away, and they will cause pretty catastrophic flooding.

They're very common up in Iceland because you've got several volcanoes under the Icelandic ice sheets. And up there, they use the term Jokulaps to describe these outburst floods. But here's the thing. When you look at the modern versions of it, you basically are looking at floods that are less than one thousandth of one single flow from these floods we're talking about that happened, you know, 12 and 13 thousand years ago. One thousandth. Less than a thousandth. Less than a thousandth in peak discharge and in total volume. And so, and it has been admitted in several places. I've extracted the quote saying, well, we do admit that this is a major extrapolation upwards, but never mind.

Yeah. You know, we're gonna you know never mind it's so disturbing me see Harlan breaths first for 30 years was walking the walk in the channel scab lands and what he saw was evidence for um as he called it a humongous flood which which actually rose and fall within fell within three weeks and and he went through decades of being put aside by his colleagues insulted they mocked him they laughed at him just as the skeptics do today but gradually the evidence began to matter and they couldn't deny it anymore that

there had been there had been flooding and actually eventually they gave Harlan Bretts Jay Harlan Bretts the Penrose medal which is the ultimate you know the ultimate bestowal of geology in America. He got the accolade. And he said at that, he was more than 90 years old at that time, and he said at that time, he said, all my enemies are dead, so I have no one left to gloat over. But the point is, in a way, there was nothing to gloat about because what they did was they separated him from his central idea. Instead of accepting that there had been one huge flood,

and that was always his view, they said, oh, there must have been 70 or 80 floods that caused all this damage. And that's what we are seriously challenging right now. It's so ironic in a way that the human desire for knowledge is what has led us to where we are today. We have this insatiable desire for knowledge and for innovation, but that same human desire to achieve is also what the ego is responsible for that. And the ego blocks anything that's contrary to what you've already established as fact. Exactly. As soon as you see something that might throw a monkey wrench into the gears

of what you've been teaching and practicing your whole life. And I know that you've gone through this with Egypt, your whole issue with the Sphinx and with Dr. Shock and John Anthony West, who was on the podcast last month. John was with you just recently. Yeah, he's amazing. By the way, I'm going to be doing an event in New York with John Anthony West. When? On the 29th of November.

Where? Well, again, it's linked on my website. Okay. The details are on the talks and events page. It's in some church somewhere, but I'm going to give a presentation, and then I'm going to interview John live on stage. First time I've ever done that. I'm kind of podcasting in a way.

He's such a character. He's an amazing guy. I love that dude. And Magical Egypt is, I think, one of the most important things that anybody can ever watch. I think that DVD series is just insane. It's so spectacular and so fantastic. And next to going to Egypt, which I haven't done, I think that's probably the second best thing. You bet. You bet. And John is an example of why we need heretics. This is the thing, you see, that science today, yes, you're right. We have this thirst for knowledge and it's human

characteristic, but also we get invested in particular positions. And when people criticize those positions, we take it as an existential threat and where we get all angry and hot and bothered about it. If we allow that to happen too much, if we don't keep a place for heretics in our society, then we're never going to do anything novel. We're gradually going to get locked down, ossified into the existing system. We need heretics. John has been the leading heretic on ancient Egypt for decades, pointing out that we should listen to what the ancient Egyptians said, that their civilization was not a development. It was a legacy. It was a legacy from the time of the gods. And that cast me back again to this whole issue of

a lost civilization. Now, when Gobekli Tepe was discovered, it vindicated you in so many ways, but what are the possibilities, if any, of more of these sites being explored and exposed? Huge. I mean, are there more that people are looking at right now? Are there any that are under the radar? Just a year ago, at the bottom of the Sicily Channel, at a depth of more than 120 feet, it's been underwater for at least 9,000 000 years is a huge megalithic site

before the discovery of gobekli tepe that site could never have been explained the dating is absolutely definite the seas rose and covered it at least 9 000 years ago we don't know how long it stood there before it was covered by the rising seas but there it sits underwater and i think underwater discoveries are and I've had a part to play in this over the years, are one of the ways forward. We need to look at those areas because there was a 400 foot rise in sea level at the end of the ice age. You're looking at the amount of land that would be put together in, say, Europe and China added together. That amount of land was swallowed by those rising seas. And archaeology has largely proceeded without taking account of those lost lands.

I'm not saying they haven't looked at all, but they're primarily in marine archaeology interested in shipwrecks. Now, this megalithic site, is there images of this that we could look at? There are, yeah. I can probably find it. Monolith at the bottom of the Sicily Channel. Try that. Try that.

Search on that. Pull that up, Jamie. Yeah. But, so what does this look like? And has this been clearly established that this actually is the work of man? This is not some sort of a yardang or something? Of course there's dispute. Right.

Of course. The mainstream is not going to just accept this overnight, but again, it's mainstream scientists who found it. They're absolutely certain that they're dealing with a man-made site. There are holes drilled through these megaliths. One of them is very, very large. There's a series of other megaliths round about. It's not a natural thing. So here we're looking at some of it right now. Yeah, so there's that big megalith broken into two parts right there. Oh, wow. Yeah. And this we can say, often with archaeological sites, the problem is dating them. You know, for example, there are incredible megalithic temples all over the island of Malta, not far away from this place.

Incredible megalithic temples. But they can't date the stone directly. They have to date organic material associated with the stone. And that can give them misleadingly young dates. In the case of a site that's been covered by sea level rise, there can be no argument. Nobody went down there and built that 9,000 years ago. It had to be built before the seas rose, and that puts a minimum age on it of 9,000 years. What are the best images that we can look at? Because right now I'm just seeing rocks.

It's very difficult because I'm looking at something very two dimensional I'm afraid that's all you're going to see those are those are the best images of it that exist What about the scuba diver one right above that? That's in Yonaguni. Oh, that's not in that's not in the Sicily Channel. So What what are the biggest pieces down there? Is it this right here? Is this what you're yeah that big thing big thing there It's about 30 feet long, I think. And what leads you to believe that this is man-made? The scientists who worked

on it, the fact that there are holes drilled through the stone, the fact that you can go to neighboring areas like Armenia and find really very ancient megalithic sites where they have exactly the same kind of holes drilled through the stones and the holes seem to have been used for

Astronomical sightings now this site's a mess. It's been knocked over by the sea It's fallen down But we're seeing the same thing big megaliths with holes drilled through them and you're also dealing with 9,000 plus years of erosion and barnacle growth all of all of that and the ocean is a difficult place to work You know, it's yeah, know. It's not easy. Visibility can be bad. You're dealing with currents. There's all kinds of problems.

But this is an important discovery. Kind of bring in James Cameron and his crazy little submarine. Bring in James Cameron. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I spent seven years scuba diving all around the world looking at this stuff. And, you know, it's pretty convincing in my view. Well, it does make sense that if we do know for a fact, and we do, that the sea level

rose dramatically at the end of the ice age, it makes sense that some things would be buried under the water. Well, and during the Ice Age, whatever, you know, you don't have to talk about advanced civilizations or anything. But during the Ice Age, living on the coastlines and establishing your villages, communities and everything on the coastlines would have been probably one of the most benign places to get, you know, because for one thing, you're down near sea, the sea level, the presence of the seas is going to, you know, smooth out the climate and so forth. So, you know, you're going to have probably most cultural development during the Ice Age is going to be close to the sea. So it's going to be underwater now, just like Graham was talking about. And so this, to me, is probably the future of archaeology, is marine archaeology,

where a lot of discoveries are going to be made. And that particular thing, I mean, there's a lot of megalithic structures around the world that if you set that thing up like this and put those siding holes through it, would look precisely like. Scrape the barnacles off of it. And no one's saying, oh, it's proven.

But what it is is we have to keep an open mind and say, well, there are some very strong similarities here, so let's investigate this thing further. And that's the whole point of all this is all of this stuff needs more research it doesn't need some cavalier dismissal by somebody who's you know protecting their their own paradigm it needs more research on all fronts i mean because i think that there's enough evidence that is now accumulated to suggest that there is a deep history to the human species on earth and we're just beginning to really appreciate how much deeper it really is than the conventional models of history. And rather than just waving an arm and dismissing

this... With a skeptical sneer. With a skeptical sneer, exactly. What's interesting is there is accepted scientific models of humanity when you're talking about super volcanoes, right? Like the super volcano of 60, 70,000 years ago.

Mount Toba. Yeah. I mean, they pretty much accept that that wiped out the vast majority of human beings on Earth. And why is the super volcano hypothesis so easily accepted, but yet the asteroidal impact, I mean, both of them are real events. Both of them are historically documented. In fact, we really don't,

we've never watched a super volcano take over the world, but we've seen asteroids hit other planets. We've actually watched Shoemaker-Levy, like you were talking about before. Bombarding Jupiter, unbelievable. Bigger impact than the planet Earth itself. Yeah, exactly. Boom! Yeah. And actually more than 20 impacts. Each one of them would have wiped out all life on Earth if that object had hit the Earth. So, you know, it's a very…

Another thing to… We were talking about underwater structures, but let's also consider the possibility, and again, John Anthony West's work is important here. Let's also consider the possibility that we have misidentified a number of structures that are standing in plain view, like the Great Sphinx. Egyptology, read any Egyptological text, any encyclopedia, actually, they will tell you that thing was put there by a specific pharaoh, Pharaoh Khafre of the fourth dynasty, around about 2500 BC.

That is not a fact. That is an opinion. But it's presented as a fact. There is not a single inscription that relates the Sphinx to that pharaoh, not a contemporary inscription, not one dating from 2500 BC. In fact, there's nothing at all. It's just the assumption, because it's close to a pyramid, which they assume the same pharaoh built, again on the absence of evidence, that the Sphinx must have been built by them.

But John Anthony West was the first to see that actually when we look at the Sphinx, we're looking at a highly eroded stone object. And that erosion is very odd. And that's why he brought Professor Robert Shock, professor of geology from Boston University, to Giza in 1992 to look at the Sphinx and say what actually caused this weathering on the Sphinx. And Shock immediately saw it.

What caused it was exposure to a very long period of heavy, heavy, heavy rainfall. And no such rains have fallen in Egypt in the last 5,000 years, but they did fall during the Younger Dryas. We had a prolonged rainout from this comet impact as that ice cap was pulverized and a massive amount of ice water was thrown up into the upper atmosphere, prolonged rain out, which could have been the cause of the erosion on the Sphinx. Now what has occurred new? What discoveries have been discovered in the last year?

Like what is new that we can look at? In terms of archeology, there's not much new. Gobekli Tepe at the the moment, is in deep freeze. It's right 30 miles from the Syrian border. There's been massive unrest in Shaniourfa, which is the main town. Archaeology is very difficult for them to carry on there. It's basically just frozen. So they just sort of stopped.

They've just kind of stopped, you know. And, in fact, there's an of these of these sites another site I visited for magicians of the gods was Baalbek in the Lebanon absolutely stunning site and again I'm convinced that that site is nuanced it is yes there is a Roman temple there but they put that temple there because the site was sacred long before and there's this incredible u-shaped megalithic wall which surrounds Baalbek which does not appear to have any connection to the to the Roman structure at all again that's an

area which is subject to tremendous unrest and difficulty and it's difficult for archaeologists to proceed but just just in 2014 they they made a huge new discovery at Baalbek of a buried block, which weighs 1,460 tons, which was sitting there on the site. They'd been working that site for a hundred years. They only found it in 2014. Wow. 1,000 tons. 1,460 tons.

Is that 2 million pounds? Is that what that is? I don't know. How does that work? Maybe Randall's math is better than mine in converting it into pounds. One ton is two. Well one times 2,000 pounds. 2,000 pounds to a ton, to an imperial ton. So whatever, add three zeros on it.

Double it and add three zeros on it. It's a horrendous amount of pounds. It's the single largest block of stone ever cut and quarried in the ancient world. And they found this just in 2014. They found it in 2014. Now, there's another big one right beside it, which has been in plain view for about the last hundred years.

And it's astonishing to me that this one, which is just below it, was covered by sediment that they didn't discover. You have an actual calculator? You might be the only person. An actual? I never go anywhere without my calculator, Joe. You have a real calculator? Uh-huh. Nobody has one of those. We were just talking about that yesterday. They're like, who the fuck buys calculators?

It's not an iPhone. It's an actual calculator. I'm the last guy on Earth to carry one of these. Wow. So Baalbek was also the site of, I mean, there's many monoliths that have been discovered there. And it's a really fascinating site that many people have sort of overlooked when you talk about ancient structures from the past. Absolutely. I have to resist. I've got nothing against aliens, but I don't need aliens to explain these things.

I think a much leaner and more elegant explanation for these huge archaeological anomalies is a lost human civilization. Much better. That's been the case that I've been making for 25 years. I think the alien thing is a bit of a distraction. Of course there's aliens. Of course the universe is full of life. But the ancient archaeological sites are not good evidence for that idea.

Unless you massage the evidence a lot, they're not good evidence. I think we are dealing with a lost human civilization. And at Baalbek, 20 feet above the ground, we have three blocks of stone joined so closely together that you can't get an edge of a sheet of paper between them. Each one weighs more than 900 tons, and they are 20 feet above the ground. It's a stunning achievement. It's just absolutely astonishing. How on earth did they do that? And how does mainstream archaeology deal with that?

They say, oh, the Romans built it all. Oh, the Romans. Yeah, the Romans did it. The Romans did do Romans did it the Romans did do some awesome stuff they did do some awesome stuff they absolutely did but this site is separate from the Roman site it surrounds it but it's not part of it in my view in terms of your question what's happened within the last year or two I would think that probably the most significant thing or certainly right up there would be the the comet research and the

discovery. I mean, like this article I have right here, which came out in 2014, so it's not that old, a nano diamond rich layer across three continents consistent with major cosmic impact at 12,800 years ago. And it's something like 24, 25 highly pedigreed scientists. And these are the Comet Research Group. These are the scientists from the Comet Research Group who have funded all their research themselves. They came out with another paper in 2015. Where was this published, if anybody wants to read this?

That's in the Journal of Geology. Yeah. But then there's the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, host a lot of their work as well. And the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, host a lot of their work as well. And the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences get into trouble for hosting their work, but they feel it's important, so they keep on hosting it. This is so spectacularly confusing to me, because that's rock-solid science. I mean, this is evidence. This is actually, you can weigh this stuff.

You can measure it. You can run tests on it and find out what its components are. This, to me, is so baffling. Yeah, it's very baffling. They brought out another paper in 2015. I won't go into the... Some of the details are boring, but it's called a Bayesian chronological analysis. And basically, what they were looking at, they asked themselves, is it possible that

this evidence, these nanodiamonds, these melt glass, the carbons, ferrules, could that have been laid down gradually? And the chronological analysis that they've done absolutely answers that. No, it was not laid down gradually. And the chronological analysis that they've done absolutely answers that. No, it was not laid down gradually. This whole thing unfolded in a period of about 24 hours. Whoa, what a night. Yeah, and what had happened, Joe, was that for years archaeologists had recognized this black mat layer at about two dozen or more of the Clovis sites around North America which there had been over 50 of them that have been studied and it was C Vance Haines who wrote an interesting paper saying that

that he was the one who noted that below this black matte layer which is only two to three inches thick in most sites, you found evidence of the Clovis culture. You found their tool kits and their spear points and so on. You found evidence of the extinct megafauna, but not above it. You would find this evidence of this cultural activity and the megafauna right up to the bottom of the of the black mat layer but not above it so what finally happened was in 2007 um richard firestone and alan

west and some of their colleagues and it was just basically a small group at that point took a look at this closer look and that's when they began to discover these impact proxies usually right at the base of the layer and the layer itself is carbonaceous which suggests that there had been a lot of soot deposited which would imply widespread wildfires in fact there's a study off the right off the coast of california on the santa rosa islands that pretty much concluded that there was just massive wildfires that pretty much just annihilated everything. And then this was preceded by the deposition of this black matte layer. And right at the bottom of this black matte layer is where you find the nanodiamonds, the magnetic

grains, the microspherals, the carbonaceous spherals, fullerenes. You find these impact proxies and they're not all the same at all the sites. In fact, that's been one of the things that the critics have seized upon. But what they're doing is, I think, taking an oversimplified model. And when you look at a comet fragmentation event, you could be looking at the individual pieces could have very different compositions. And what we were talking about earlier, the torrid meteor stream, I'm not convinced at this point that it was necessarily just a single impact event. It may have been a bombardment episode that may have lasted even several decades.

It may have then ceased for a while. And we were talking about this last night over dinner that there seems to be a second spasm at 11,600 years ago that's also associated with a massive rise in sea level. There's two meltwater spikes, Meltwater Spike 1A and Meltwater Spike 1B. I'm quite convinced that these meltwater spikes that have been documented by marine geologists and oceanographers are correlated with these melting events of the ice sheet that i've been looking at in terms of their their geomorphic uh um consequences because some of these events i mean the only way i can describe some of these meltwater events is that the only modern analog

to this would be a tsunami and we've seen some pretty devastating tsunamis within the last decade or two um both in Indonesia and in Japan. And I don't know if you've ever seen any of the videos of these tsunamis. Anybody listening, it is definitely worthwhile to go online and look at some of these videos where you can actually see the unbelievably powerful effects of a 30 or 40 or 50 foot tsunami, right? Now, some of the landscapes, and I have some images we can pull up here shortly, are places in Montana, Idaho, Washington,

where you literally had a tsunami sweeping over the land that was over 1,000 feet deep. And that tsunami came off the ice cap. That's not an oceanic tsunami. Right. It's a freshwater tsunami. It's meltwater coming off this catastrophic melting of the ice sheet. And I've traced the sources of some of these meltwater. I've made two trips now up into the plateau country of British Columbia looking for the source of this meltwater.

Because in the conventional models now of this flooding, that goes back to Harlan Bretts, and basically what they've done is they said initially there could have been no flood because Harlan Bretts didn't provide a source for the water. They said, the critics said, well, you're saying that all of this evidence in the landscape is evidence of the flood, but what was the source of the flood? And he didn't have a source. So the critics then said, well, you don't have a source for the flood water, therefore the flood didn't take place.

Then as the research evolved, you had independent evidence accumulating in western Montana by J.T. Pardee, who was with the U.S. Geological Survey, and he was investigating evidence that the mountain valleys of western Montana had been filled up with an enormous volume of water, and this volume of water seemed to be exactly the same time as Bretz's floods. He then assumed that this was a giant lake, and because you can see, and we can, I think we have some images, I think Jamie has some images, so we'll pull them up shortly, where're on the mountainside.

You see the shorelines etched, you know, 1,000 feet above the valley floor. And what he then decided was that based upon an old 19th century interpretation by T.C. Chamberlain that there had been an ice dam, he said, well, there must have been an ice dam west of here somewhere in the Clark Fork Valley. been an ice dam west of here somewhere in the Clark Fork Valley, a giant lake backed up, burst through the ice dam, and then this is what would have caused Harlan Bretz's floods. So now the geological community is shifting because, number one, the evidence is overwhelming and they can't deny it anymore. But what they're doing is looking for a gradualist or a more uniformitarian explanation. So they immediately latched on to this. Well, there was a giant pro-glacial or in front of a glacial lake in western Montana.

Well, you're talking about somewhere between 520 and 550 cubic miles of water. That's a lot of water, right? And normally when you have a large lake, you have a huge catchment basin that is feeding lots of streams and rivers that are feeding into that lake. When you look at any of the big lakes around North America, you have the lake and then you have this big old catchment basin. And all of that's feeding it. In Lake Missoula, the whole lake fills almost the whole catchment basin. It's like, to me, what they did was they said, okay, we're just going to push the source of the water from here over to here but let's not go into the question of where did the water come from that's filling these mountain

valleys of western Montana. And this is what I spent a couple of weeks in September going up into some of these following these valleys up into British Columbia and there's spectacular evidence. And it's almost like the American geologists stop at the 49th parallel and they say, well, that's the Canadians preserve up there. We'll let them, they've got their own theories, we've got ours.

Interestingly, the Canadians are saying that we think that the water for these floods came from up here. But they don't like that because, you see, one of the leading geologists who is saying that these floods came from Canada is John Shaw, who basically came up with this idea that drumlins, which are these inverted boat hull shaped landforms that are found by hundreds of thousands in the regions where glaciers were, that they were formed not by the glaciers grinding over the landscape, but they were actually formed by massive sub-glacial

flows of water. And his critics have all been saying, well, here's the problem. What's the source of your water? Therefore it wasn't water, it wasn't water. It wasn't subglacial floods. It parallels Harlan Bretz's story very closely. Well, here's the thing. Shaw and his colleagues couldn't really come up

with a plausible explanation for how you could form these massive subglacial reservoirs. In fact, what they called the Livingstone Lake Event required 84,000 cubic kilometers of water. And at 84,000 kilometers, I can do it really quickly here. We divide that by 36. That's about 2,300 cubic miles of water. That's more than all of the Great Lakes combined,

vastly bigger than all of the Great Lakes combined. It's probably every lake the Great Lakes combined. It's probably every lake in North America combined. And he said this one event required over 2,000 cubic miles of water. Well, where did that water come from? So he basically said, well, there must have been a reservoir somehow that formed. His critics have said, that's impossible. You couldn't form that much water under the ice sheet. Well, what's happened now is the idea of a major cosmic impact into the ice sheet has completely obviated the need for a subglacial reservoir, because now we have a way of instantaneously

melting enormous volumes of ice. It's no longer a mystery where the water came from, it's fully explained, And this has been the missing piece of the puzzle until the Comet Research Group began to identify this evidence. Well, it's baffling to me that this is a source of controversy because we know that the Great Lakes were created by melting glaciers. We also know that there's vast areas of North America that are flattened by these glaciers. You know, a buddy of mine, my friend Doug, lives in Cazenovia, Wisconsin, which is what's called the Driftless area, where the glaciers didn't go through. I just was there in May.

It's beautiful. It's beautiful. It's gorgeous. It's got rolling hills, and it's just it wasn't crushed flat like other parts of North America were. Right. So we know. We know that those glaciers melted, and they created the Great Lakes. I mean, the Great Lakes were from glaciers.

We know that. Right. That's an established fact. So why is all this confusing? I just don't understand why they wouldn't just add that to it. They're just going to accept the great, the glaciers somehow or another in the last 10,000 years the glaciers just decided to stop smashing North America flat and melt and create these great inland oceans of fresh water.

Yeah. Bizarre. It's very bizarre. Ultimately, a lot of ideology is involved in this. There's this desire, also in the modern world, there's a desire not to panic the public, not to say things that are going to cause panic. Even with Donald Trump being president? Don't you think people are ready now?

I think people are ready for panic. I think so. Has anybody debated you on this? Either one of you on this? Well, you know, I tried to, but not specifically on this, I tried to do a debate with Zahi Hawass, who's the guy who runs the Giza Pyramids. He's a madman. Yeah, total, total, I mean, very crazy event.

There's a video of it online. There's a video. It's quite hilarious. There's a video of it online. The debate lasts, what, 30 seconds? Something like that. Yeah, very crazy event. There's a video of it online. There's a video. It's quite hilarious. There's a video of it online. The debate lasts, what, 30 seconds? Something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then later on, when he finally agreed to come back into the room, because he was so angry with me, he walked out. When he finally came back into the room, he was asked a question about Gobekli Tepe.

And just like your skeptic, he didn't know anything about Gobekli Tepe. Or he claimed not to know about it. I mean, this is supposed to be the world's most famous Egyptologist. And he knew nothing about this incredible site in a neighboring country. But one point to make, Randall was talking about the second event 11,600 years ago. We're dealing with an episode of cataclysm, which begins 12,800 years ago and ends 11,600 years ago. Both episodes accompanied by massive floods. And the 11,600 years ago date, I may have mentioned this last year, it's in Magicians of the Gods. What's interesting about that is that is the exact date

that Plato gives us for the destruction of the lost civilization of Atlantis. Plato, that's the only source we have for Atlantis. It comes to us, many people think it's all over the place, but it's not. Atlantis comes to us from the Greek philosopher Plato, who lived around 340 BC. And he got the story through his family line, from his ancestor Solon, who had visited Egypt in 600 BC. And there Solon was told of a great civilization that had

existed on earth that was the progenitor civilization of Egypt, but that was destroyed in a terrible cataclysm. And he asked, a cataclysm involving a gigantic flood, and Atlantis was submerged beneath the waves and was never seen again. And so Solon said to the priests, when did this happen? And they said said 9,000 years ago. That was in 600 BC. So that's 9,600 BC. That's 11,600 years ago. That's meltwater pulse 1B.

How could they know? Yeah, how could they know? We have to start taking this stuff more seriously. Instead of sneering at it and skepticizing it out of existence, we need to leave a little bit of room for extraordinary ideas possibly being right. That's the main beef I have with the skeptics, is that they want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I want to add something to that.

In the Timaeus, you know, Plato discusses Atlantis in two dialogues. And in the Timaeus, he prefaces the story of Atlantis by recounting the myth of Phaeton. Now the myth of Phaeton is a very interesting story. And basically what it is, is Phaeton was the offspring of Helios, the sun god, who was raised, didn't know who his father was. His mother kept it a secret from him. And then one day he was being taunted at school because all of his schoolmates had, you know, recounting the great deeds of their fathers and everything.

So he went home distraught. And finally, his mother said, well, actually, your father is the big deeds of their fathers and everything. So he went home distraught, and finally his mother said, well, actually, your father is the big granddaddy of them all, Helios, the sun god. So Phaeton decides he's going to go and find his father, and eventually does, and he goes to some, you know, celestial realm where his father is located. And the way it is with the Greek gods, they

have unlimited powers, except they also have certain restrictions. For example, if a god makes a promise, he or she cannot go back on it, right? So when Helios sees Phaeton, his lost son, come, he's overjoyed, he says, I'm so happy to see you, I will grant you any boon you want. And Phaeton says, I want to drive the chariot of the sun. I want to drive your chariot. And Helios says, well, I meant anything you wanted except that. So it goes back and forth and back and forth. Finally, Phaeton convinces his father, let me do it.

His father says, look, you've got to hang on to those reins tight because those steeds are going to pull away from you. He gets in there, the gates of the sun open. It describes, in the myth, you can read Edith Hamilton or Bullfinch or any of the great retellings of the Greek myths, and they'll describe it in there. It goes through the signs of the zodiac, and then all of a sudden it careens off and heads down to

earth and then it describes this whole litany of catastrophes just setting the earth on fire and finally the uh jupiter uh at at the uh at the the beseeching of poseidon who's afraid that the oceans are going to boil away gets zeus to mount his his uh mount olympus and hurl his thunderbolt, which knocks Phaeton from the sky, and he falls to earth and falls into the river Eridonis, which is a metaphor for the Milky Way. And his sisters, the Heliades, then weep over the death of their brother, and their tears fall to earth and cause the great flood. Plato then, after referencing that myth, he then says, now, this has the form of a myth,

but what it really represents is a declination or a declining of the bodies in space orbiting around the Earth and an eventual falling to Earth of one of those bodies and a conflagration of all things triggered by the fall of that body. It's intriguing that he mentions the zodiac because the Taurid meteor stream is so cold because it appears to come at us from the direction of the constellation of Taurus,

a zodiacal constellation. That's where those shooting stars, amongst which are some very large objects that have hit us in the past and can hit us again in the future, that's where they come from. They come from that area of the sky. It's actually an illusion. It appears that they're not actually coming from Taurus. It looks like that. They come from that area of the sky. They come from that area of the sky. And so anybody in ancient times who was witnessing, and according to Victor Klub and William Napier and those guys who are the British neocatastrophists that have been doing all of this work for decades on the torrid meteor shower have concluded that, you know, in times past, it was an extremely active shower and would have created some pretty darn impressive light shows, even if it wasn't causing catastrophes down here below but what they've what they've conjectured is that there might be times of multiple tunguska like impact bombardment when um you know there could because there could

be thousands of objects within the torrid meteor stream on the same scale as the tunguska object and that if if you go and you read the accounts the eyewitness accounts over and over again people are saying things like well it looked like it was being disgorged from the sun. It looked like it was being born out of the sun, right? It looked like a second sun in the sky, like for a short period of time, the sun had a twin, right? Well, the summertime torrids are coming from their perihelion passage around the sun.

So like Graham was saying, they make an elliptical orbit out to Jupiter and back around the sun in this stream, right? Earth crosses that stream twice each year. One time, late June, early July, we cross, but at that point, they're coming from the direction of the sun. So their arrival to Earth is going to be very difficult to see because they're coming from the direction of the sun, right? But that's exactly where, on June 30th, a torrid meteor would're coming from the direction of the sun right but that's exactly where on june 30th a torrid meteor would be coming from um and then also the fact that it's the perfect date for the peak of the of the shower and the correct place in the sky to me is pretty convincing

evidence that it was most likely a remnant of that torrid stream the other time that the earth crosses is late oct, early November. In fact, we've just passed out of it within the last week, basically. But it peaks, interestingly, coincidentally, between, like, October 30th and November 4th or 5th. So it's peaking right around Halloween time. In fact, they've been called the Halloween meteors,

and there's some very interesting... Halloween fireworks, sometimes they call them. The Halloween fireworks, yeah. And there's some very interesting... Halloween fireworks sometimes they call them. The Halloween fireworks, yeah. But there's some very interesting work done by a researcher back around the early 20th century named Grant Halliburton, who spent about 15 years researching the connections between ancient calendars. And he concluded one thing very interesting was that a lot of these ancient calendars were being synchronized by people's observations of the rise and fall of the Pleiades, which is the shoulder of the bull. The Pleiades comprises basically part of that constellation of the bull. Constellation of Taurus, yeah.

Yeah, the shoulder of the bull. And what he came up with was that in his research, he discovered that many of these stories that were associated with this, like the slaying of the celestial bull, you know, Gilgamesh and Enkidu in the earliest known story, they fight this celestial bull. There's many counterparts and variants of that in mythical stories um and so what he then found out though was that in many cases the that that our modern halloween actually goes back thousands of years to an ancient day of the dead that was observed all over the earth at the same time every year even in the southern hemisphere and it usually revolved around a commemoration of the culmination of the Pleiades, which is when the Pleiades crosses the local meridian.

In other words, it reaches the keystone of the royal arch, so to speak, up in the sky. So if you go out on Halloween now and you face the south in the northern hemisphere, you will see the Pleiades right at midnight. At midnight, they will be, if you think of the arch of the zodiac as being like a clock, it's right there at midnight, at midnight, right? Well, here's the interesting link, is that in all of these myths, what Halliburton discovered over and over again was that the Day of the Dead ultimately went back to myths of the destruction of the world by a great flood and or fire.

It's fascinating that it's all coming out of the constellation Taurus too, and it's the celestial bull that they're fighting in these ancient myths, and all these cultures around the world are celebrating the Day of the Dead at this exact same time. This is amazing stuff. And right now our science is closing its eyes to this. I think it's fair to say with the torrid meteor stream, which is a very big issue in this whole discussion, that we are dealing with a hidden hand in human history.

It's something that is going to ultimately require us to re-explain almost everything. The skeptics hate it. They can't bear it. Because, first of all, it involves cataclysms. And secondly, it involves the possibility of losing a whole civilization from the record. It's really interesting when you look at the dates of this cluster, this episode of bombardment between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago. That's the period that just immediately precedes what mainstream academia think of as the very beginnings of civilization. And they've just never, maybe it's not even their

fault. This is so recent, this science is so new that they've not had time to adapt to it. But if they adapt to it and take this into account, then suddenly what was an extraordinary and absurd and impossible idea, that there was a lost civilization 12,000 years ago, becomes a very plausible and reasonable idea. And then we start, once we take that on board, then we can start opening our eyes to archaeological anomalies, like the Great Sphinx, like Baalbek, like submerged ruins, like Gobekli Tepe, and begin to consider what does all this mean? Are we, in fact, a species with amnesia? Are we here forgetful of the truth about ourselves?

Maybe that's why we're so fucked up, you know, because we just actually don't know. We've made up a story about where we came from and what we are. I certainly think it plays a part. And I also think that conservative skepticism is probably prudent when you're dealing with most scientific issues. Of course. Most things that come up that people are claiming. I mean, there's so many charlatans out there

and crazy people that are claiming new discoveries. But in some cases, they examine these discoveries. As long as they're far enough away from us or weird enough, like this new planet that they believe, they have a 90 plus nine yeah yeah they they're pretty sure there's something outside past the kuiper belt and they think it's massive they think it's at least four times maybe larger uh than uh the united states or then excuse me the world down the world and got an orbit of about 10 000 years yeah and that's interesting

with comets because this huge massive object circulating in the outer solar system Through the Kuiper belt which is a source of many of the comets that hit the earth is Destabilizing comets from safe orbits and putting them into really dangerous orbits that come our way Correctly from wrong, but like what what is the source of all these near-earth objects? Does this have anything to do with earth 1 and earth 2? Does it have anything to do with the initial impact that created the moon? Is that because we were hit by another planet, right, during the formation of the Earth?

And this is all scientifically established astro-scientists or astrophysicists rather, and astronomers all agree on that, right? There's a lot of debris that would go back to that time. But comets are another story because they're coming in from the far reaches of outer space. They're coming in from the Oort cloud and the Kuiper belt, just vast distances away. They're voyagers.

They're kind of messengers from the distant reaches of the cosmos who come in in an unpredictable way because their orbits are destabilized by something like Planet Nine. Isn't there something called Bode's Law where you can measure the mass in the orbit of a certain planet and you can accurately depict where the next planet is going to be and doesn't that fall apart somewhere between Mars and Jupiter? With the asteroid belt. Yeah. Yeah.

Which would indicate that something was probably there at one point in time. That's been the theory of the asteroid belt that it was an exploded planet. Of course there's a lot of opposition to that theory, too. You know, you're right. Skepticism really has an important role to play. It's really essential that we are skeptical. Otherwise, we'd all be following Zacharias Hitchin and waiting for the Anunnaki to land. Exactly.

We would have sold our houses December 21st, 2012, and we'd all be going, what the fuck? Now I'm homeless. Exactly. Four years later. And I have to say, there's a skeptic called Michael Heiser, who has done really an excellent job of thoroughly debunking the bogus translations of Zachariah Sitchin. Yeah, is he at SitchinIsWrong.com? SitchinIsWrong.com. It's a very useful site. I hated him and loved him at the same time. So it's so sad.

I love the idea of the aliens come down and manipulating the monkeys and making us to mine gold. It's a wonderful story. But unfortunately, it's a work of science fiction. It's not a work of fact. Damn it, Zachariah. I knew him. He was a fascinating man. I once drove him from Stonehenge to London.

We had many conversations. He was a deep and serious researcher. But I think he got carried away with his own fantasy. I also think that that fantasy became very lucrative and it also became a source of identity to him. I followed him pretty closely as well. I read the 12th Planet and I got really into his research. And this is in my early pot smoking days. When I first started smoking pot so I was I was all in I was all in and then as I got wiser and then as I got well not honest maybe not wiser just I started recognizing objectively why these these things are so attractive the

fantastical is more attractive than the practical and so something else again I don't want I don't want to put sitching down and I'm here'm here also to say that Sitchin did a lot of really good work. He was a clever guy and a lot of very, very, very thorough research. I've just lost my track, actually smoking too much dope. Where was I going? Well, we were talking about all the difference between the fantastical and the practical, that there's this inclination to accept things that are fun yeah you know that's what i was going to say is that when you start talking about the anunnaki those from heaven to earth came these fantastic creatures from thank you you've brought my memory i remembered what i was

going to say what's interesting need some pot because i know could be good what was um what's what's interesting is that the level of technology that Zachariah attributes to the Anunnaki oblique Nephilim, that that level of technology is the level of technology that we had in the 1970s when NASA was doing its stuff. So it's NASA technology from the 1970s that is projected out onto his theory of the past. Now, it seems to me very unlikely that the Nephilim or the Anunnaki would have had for 400,000 years, which is what he's saying, the same technology that NASA had in the 1970s. It's much more likely that he's projecting that onto the data

rather than that it's actually inherent in the data. There was also some interesting ideas that he's projecting that onto the data rather than that it's actually inherent in the data. There was also some interesting ideas that he had that turned out to be ideas that scientists had also proposed about preserving our atmosphere by levitating or by suspending reflective particles in our atmosphere and that is something that the Anunnaki in his books were going to use gold for because gold has such unique properties, which is why they use gold to plate things. Because you could take a little tiny piece of gold, you could plate this entire table.

Gold is a really spectacular piece of, I mean, there's nothing like it, right? Absolutely. No, there's a lot of really good material in Sitchin, but unfortunately the translations of the texts, the translations of the but unfortunately the translations of the texts, the translations of the texts are not translations of the text. They misrepresent the text. Often what he did was he took a 19th century translation and he massaged it so that it would fit his argument. And that's a pity. So we need skeptics and they help us to sift out the wheat from the chaff. But occasionally what the skeptics do with this drive to criticize anything that's not mainstream, occasionally what they do is they let go a really good idea,

which deserves investigation and which the human species could benefit from. And that's my feeling is we're this amazing species. We've developed all this science. Why are we so ready to let go of wonderful ideas? Well, it's also fascinating to me that because of what Sitchin has been sort of criticized for, people now ignore the stuff that's absolutely undeniable, like the actual stone tablets themselves, the clay tablets, where you can see the depictions of the solar system. Somehow or another, these people from 6,000 plus years ago had a detailed

map of the solar system clear idea of the solar with the size in like a relatively correct order in the planets in the right place like they somehow or another knew that Jupiter was bigger than Mars they knew these things in some weird way and we don't know why we don't know how also the caduceus representing the the the double helix of the DNA, that's a really fascinating concept, too, that the caduceus is used for medicine, and it's used to...

I mean, he had some really interesting points, Zechariah did. So it's kind of too bad there was so much crazy involved in that. I think what any of us should do when we're exploring the deep and hidden mysteries of the past is to go to a lot of different sources. Don't just stick with the mainstream, don't just stick with the alternative, but try to bring it all together and in a way that's what I try to do in my books except the skeptics still hate them. Yeah, but it's so hard because it's so fun to go with the crazy story. Yeah. like the the alien story is so compelling. It's so fun very compelling story

I mean if we found some sort of evidence of aliens it would be so utterly spectacular Even if it was a simple alien like I've always said this that if we found like a jellyfish on the moon We would freak out, but you know There's really complex bizarre things at the bottom of our ocean that we've never discovered. They're just not in the correct location for us to be excited. And then the other issue, we're getting slightly off our flood topic here. That's okay. But the other issue of entities, the encounters with entities, anybody who's smoked DMT will know that as I have as you have that will know

that you do encounter entities in the DMT in the DMT state and they do communicate with us and there's a lot of parallels with the ETS or the aliens as they're described in modern UFO abduction accounts and Rick Strassman have you ever had him on your show you know Rick got sick he was supposed to be here a couple of times we're trying to reschedule it now yeah but he had some pretty serious health issues now we had a date scheduled out but I love that guy I've had a chance to sit down with him a couple of times and talk to him and of course you presented DMT this yeah yeah he's brilliant and he's so important to me because I

remember when I did it I was so confused I mean to me it was like the first my first DMT experience changed everything I thought about the world and I immediately didn't give a shit about aliens anymore right like it was almost instantaneous like before then I was like Roswell they've got the got the ship and yeah it's in a hangar but what I encountered doing DMT was so spectacularly alien that the pedestrian concept of something that looks like a person but has a bigger head and large eyes. And higher tech.

Yeah. Yeah. As weird and cool as it would be if it was real, it was nothing. I mean, literally not one millionth as interesting as what you absolutely can encounter when you do DMT. That's the aliens. That's the aliens. An utterly alien realm filled with alien intelligences who communicate.

And of course, again, the skeptics say, oh, it's all just made up in your brain. But we don't know that. And Rick is open to the possibility that we are dealing with areas of reality that are not normally accessible to our senses and that become accessible to our senses by retuning the receiver wavelength of the brain, which is what he suggests DMT does. And I think that's very plausible. And at the very least, those who are interested in UFOs and aliens should be Also investigating this line of inquiry Can we can we use changes in consciousness to understand the majestic complexity of the universe in which we live?

And I think the answer is definitely yes and many of Rick's volunteers I paraphrase but they came back with reports that the entities who'd encountered them said, we are so glad you've discovered this technology. Now we can communicate with you much more easily. You know, it's fascinating. So there's a technology for encountering other intelligences. And against that, this mechanistic, simplistic alien meme that's going around now that they're a bit like us, but they came here in higher tech. It's dull by comparison. It's dull by comparison with that. It is dull by comparison.

If you're interested in anybody, the book is amazing. It's called DMT, The Spirit Molecule. And he has a new book that he's putting out about- DMT and the soul of prophecy. Yeah. And he's just a really, really interesting guy. But his experience that he did were the first, I think, in many, many decades to get approved by the government.

Correct. So he did everything above ground. I mean, he was above board. He was a professor. He did. And because it was government approved, his remit was that he had to find some therapeutic benefit for DMT. And he couldn't, actually.

But that's not the point. I'm sure, actually, there are therapeutic benefits, but that's not the point I'm sure actually there are therapeutic benefits But that's not the point the point is here is a tool for investigating the mystery of consciousness and the mysterious nature of reality And I mean fuck me if we get five or six volunteers who haven't compared notes all coming back We've met entities who said we're so happy you found this technology Yeah It's hard to explain that as just to reduce it to brain activity. Not only that, when we talk about things that are so big and are ignored by mainstream culture,

this is one that's just like that. You're talking about an endogenous human chemical that not only is in us, but is in thousands of different plants. Like, I mean, how many different plants contain DMT? A huge number. I mean, very prosaic ones like peas and, you know. Well, there's the main story. Like acacia.

Acacia. That's what I was going to say. There's an amazing story. The Australian national tree is actually illegal. Isn't that, but the Jerusalem, the professors from the University of Jerusalem, I believe. Benny Shannon. Yeah, what they were talking about, they believe that that's what the story of the burning bush in Moses is. So that is mimosa with the DMT and Syrian rue

with the monoamine oxidase inhibitor. In other words, it's ayahuasca, but a Middle Eastern alternative of it, doing the same thing molecularly. And isn't it possible in some way that the idea of the burning bush was them figuring out how to dry or extract DMT and burn it? Very likely. Very possibly, right?

Because we're talking about the burning bush producing God, and it just so happens that this bush is, the acacia tree is incredibly common and super rich in DMT, and it's all over the area. And I should probably insert at this point that if you're at all familiar with the Masonic ritual, you'll know that the acacia plant plays a central

role. That's right, you're one of them 1% Mason characters. Every now and then... You're one 1% Mason characters. Every now and then on Facebook, Randall, I get accused of being a Freemason. Hancock is a Freemason. I know several. As though it explains everything. I know lots

of Freemasons. I've spoken in Masonic Lodges, but I'm an author and I shouldn't belong to clubs. I went to a wedding that my friend Duncan Trussell was performing at for these two Satanists and like 2003 and to this day is One of the LeVays Anton LeVay or Stanton LeVay, whatever is his son? And his son got married

Some young hedonist you know and they call themselves Satanists and so Duncan performed at this wedding And I went there to this day. I get fucking tweets about being a Satanist. So I can't join your little club pal One of your Masons. I need to confess here Graham. Yes, you didn't realize this but I secretly initiated you. Oh my god Oh, you're in So get in how do you really initiate somebody? Can you do that? No I sort of did sort of so you could get him in if you wanted to though right if you know the people oh of course you even you joe i don't

think so it's not happening bro i met a couple of masons they're very cool well most masons don't really understand the corpus of symbolism that's that they on top of. I've got to say that. Not to get off on the Freemasons, but simply there's a mass of symbolism. And that's the whole, that's the thing that they're custodians of. And most of them don't have a clue what it means. But they're doing an important job by preserving this corpus of symbolism through the layout of the lodge, the meaning of every component in the lodge, because it's a purely astronomical allegory. And then you have the Masonic carpets, and that's where you have the whole story of the comet, the flood.

It's all there. The acacia plant, it's all there. It's all, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's all also an integral part of how Washington, D.C. was designed. Is that true? Yeah, to some extent. I haven't, you know, I honestly haven't studied that too much. What I've seen is that there's a bunch of videos where you could watch it where they sort of describe how the layout is in some way some sort of sacred geometry and what

it's based on. Freemasons were massively involved in the construction of Washington as they were of many great cities. The city I live in England has got major Masonic architecture. So is it like people like me, like my initial prejudice, I hear something like the Masons are like, oh, fucking dude's in a cult. Get out of here. Leave me alone. We assume that all groups of people that follow anything, somehow or another are wacky.

Masons, in my opinion, they're largely a drinking club for men. Mainly that's what it is. They don't let women in at all? But you can make special arrangements to bring women into a lodge. For example, my wife, when I've given a talk in a lodge, I've given talks in two or three lodges, been asked to do so, then they make a special ceremony to allow my wife, Santa, to come in, because I won't go anywhere without Santa. So women can go in, but then there are more, there are others within masonry

who are pursuing deeply esoteric interests and exploring the mysteries, and you can have incredible conversations. In fact, it's just another group of people who, you know,

are doing their thing. It's not for me. I wouldn't join. I don't, I would lose, I think if I joined Freemasonry, it would weaken me as an author. I think I'm better able to comment on these things by not being a member of any such group.

That's interesting. Why do you think that? Well, because I think I have to remain open to all possibilities and if I commit myself to a particular line, I don't commit myself to a particular religion, I don't commit myself to a particular men's club either, which is what masonry is. I think if I commit that then ultimately I would become a spokesperson for that and I don't want to be that that makes a lot of sense considering your occupation and how important being open-minded has been to your life it's vital it's absolutely without it how

could you have ever done fingerprints of the gods I could not you cute I mean and the the thing the initial thing where you were telling me about Ethiopia, the place where they believe that the Ark of the Covenant lays, which is one of the most bizarre ideas ever. That was my first book on a historical mystery was The Sign and the Seal. And when you go into it, it's so interesting. But I just I've always imagined you as a young guy forced to sort of reconcile with this bizarre piece of evidence. You've got these old men that have cataracts in their eyes like they're on radiation sites. And no one's allowed to go inside and see this thing. And they claim they have the Ark of the Covenant in there.

And like, what the fuck is in there? It was the beginning of a magical journey for me. It's been a magical journey for all your fans, too, for guys like me, man. When I read Fingerprints of the Gods, to me, it was one of those books I just couldn't put down. It was so mind-blowing. And this, again, was in the heart of my fucking aliens, man. Fingerprints was published in 1995, and Magicians came out in 2015 and I would say in that time the evidence when I made the case for a lost civilization and a global cataclysm in fingerprints of the gods I can't begin

to account for the amount of hostility and anger and rage that I generated in the academic community the idea was considered to be absolutely absurd 20 years later with magicians of the gods it's not so absurd anymore the evidence is mounting. We have incredible evidence now for a global cataclysm in exactly the period that counts between 12,800 to 11,600 years ago. And we have sites like Gobekli Tepe. We have a redefinition of the Sphinx. The whole area is just about to explode in the future. We're on the edge, I believe, of a paradigm shift. And this comet material is central to it.

What I really appreciate about your courage is that you've also had the courage to meet when you've made mistakes you're you're not you don't in any way pretend to be some sort of uh... bear of secret knowledge no one else possesses absolutely not a guru i don't want to be anything like that i'm a reporter that's that's what i am and i'm i'm a reporter who's reporting on offbeat subjects. And to some extent, I'm an outsider. So one of the talks I do now is about being an outsider. I think there is a place for outsiders in society. Well, I don't think you're an outsider. I think you're an outsider from the established

mainstream ideas. I just think that ideas are- Me and Randall are the same. We're both outsiders in in that area I'm working in different fields to get into this but don't you think that these established channels that were so deeply grooved in? distributing information those things have widened so wide now where you're getting you mean a Professor could do a podcast like he could teach a class You could write a book or he can do a podcast on a certain subject and like you're aware of Dan Carlin and that hardcore History podcast I just can't stop raving about but what he's done is brought historical accurate But really dramatic stories of real events that took place to millions

Mm-hmm, like you know, that's just that no one's doing that. Like this is, but it's not mainstream. Well, what's more mainstream than being number one on the iTunes podcast list, which he is all the time? What is more mainstream than he must be getting millions of downloads? It's part of the big change that's taking place in our society. The old structures are being overthrown. They're being thrown away. It's a very uncomfortable time. It's a very uncertain time. It's a very exciting time.

Right. Because we can build out of this something amazing in the future. The internet's had a huge part to play in it. The fact that people can communicate with one another all around the world. Well, since I've had a web presence in the last, I was a late comer, but maybe two to three years ago, I've been getting contacted by, I mean, professionals from around the world. I've got probably a dozen major ones. I've geologists who want to know more about an Interesting you said earlier about debating, you know, I'm always looking for somebody to debate about yeah, right I you know because I have questions and I'm thinking

Maybe somebody even somebody who would disagree with me on something could still help me answer some of the questions, right? but I try to associate as much as possible and hang out with professionals in the field. And, of course, what I discover is that a lot of them are working in these things part-time, almost clandestinely, without making it part of their, you know, if I go on a field trip, a geologist, into the floodlands, none of them are really working on it full-time. It's all part-time. You know, they're working for the government. They're working for the flood lands. None of them are really working on it full time. It's all part time. You know, they're working for the government.

They're working for the oil companies or, you know, exploration, mineral exploration, whatever. They're doing this research into geological catastrophes on their own time. Right. But recently, just last summer, I got invited to actually present some of my research to the Atlanta Geological Society which is the largest society of professional geologists in the southeast. So I jumped at the chance rather than, you know, and so I presented hoping that I would get challenged, that somebody would say, wait a second, there's a flaw in your thinking

here. Didn't happen. So did you make friends with some of these mainstream geologists? Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, I've been knowing. I mean, I just took a trip in September, spent 10 days back out in the floodlands. And I had a geologist with me on that trip. So, yeah, I'm getting to know more and more people who are working as, well, you know,

I majored in geology in college. So I still am in touch regularly with the head of the geology department. I see her pretty much on a regular basis and have been keeping her apprised of some of my stuff. And she has offered to sponsor me at whatever point I think that I can pull it together as a dissertation. But we'll see how that goes. I mean, my objective was to learn geology, not to become a professional geologist. I wasn't interested in working for the government or working for the energy industry. I had geological questions, and that's why I majored in geology. And you've walked the walk. And in my opinion, you know more about this stuff than

10 fully PhD geologists. Yeah, you always freak me out. So what's fascinating to me about all this is that I think what you've done has been very measured. You know, everything you back up with facts and photographs and descriptions and disclaimers. You know, when you say, well, it is possible, you will go down other various paths. You're not dogmatic about these ideas. But you've spent so much time going over this. I don't know if there's a commensurate guy in mainstream archeology that has been public about it the way you have been. Because if there is, I feel like we probably would have heard about them.

Your podcasts have been... The ones that we've done, they've been seen by millions of people. They've been listened to by millions of people. didn't listen to by millions of people I mean the information is getting out there and making a real difference you're always gonna have the the guys like I think Michael Schirmer is very important I'm not criticizing him but that knee-jerk reaction to do something to mock something or put down something that's not mainstream like one of his tweets he said you know what archaeology with evidence is?

And he wrote archaeology. Like, why would you even tweet that? That doesn't even make any sense. Like, that's someone who's not paying attention to your work. Because all you do is focus on evidence. I'm reminded of the Shakespearean line, methinks the lady doth protest too much. Why does he need to say that it's got the evidence? It's like Fox News saying fair and balanced. He's tweeting at you with this.

Meanwhile, your entire book is based on photographic evidence and all the other various pieces of evidence. Facts, documents, detailed research. It's all about examining all these pieces of evidence. These aren't things that you've invented. These are actual real sites that you can look at. I'm drawing inferences from them that they don't like. That's the thing.

Well, Robert Schock and guys like him are so important. Guys who have the courage, who's a Boston University professor, who has the courage to look at the stones and say, this is the product of water erosion. Kudos to Robert Schock as a geologist, as a career academic geologist who's taken that risk and put himself out there and followed the evidence where it leads. Another one is Danny Hillman Natawadjaja in Indonesia, who's been responsible for the investigation of this He's Indonesia's leading expert in megathrust earthquakes. But he's been looking at archaeology, bringing his geological expertise to that. So things are changing. We are finding academics who are willing to engage and willing to discuss.

I got into a very interesting email correspondence with a guy called Daniel Lohmann at Baalbeck from the German Archaeological Institute, who's an architect and an archaeologist. And he was very civil with me, and he answered my questions. We went into it in depth. We had quite a long debate. That's very refreshing. That kind of thing wasn't happening 20 years ago. Yeah, that is very refreshing.

Now, what about those pyramids in Bosnia? Has that been... What is the deal with that? Are those things... I've been there. I know Sam Osbonagic personally. Sam is the guy who's promoted the site. I like Sam very much. I must say when I'm in his aura, I'm extremely convinced. But when I look rationally at the so-called pyramids, I don't think they're pyramids. I think they're hills. I did spend, with Sam showing me around, I did spend three days in Bosnia looking at the so-called pyramids. I don't think they're pyramids. I think they're hills. I did spend, with Sam showing me around, I did spend three days in Bosnia looking at the so-called Pyramid of the Sun,

the Pyramid of the Moon, the Love Pyramid, and so on and so forth. I do see that a tourist industry has built up around this, and it's a fabulously beautiful, intriguing site, a massive, beautiful, mountainous place, but they are hills. They are not pyramids.

Impression is given that there are tunnels, passage They are not pyramids. Impression is given that there are tunnels, passageways inside the pyramids. That's not true. The passageways are about two, two and a half kilometers away. They're very low tech. I just don't see it. And for that reason, I did not cover the Bosnian pyramids in Magicians of the Gods. I'm not going to say they're not pyramids. I'm not going to write a book saying that they're wrong, but they didn't excite me enough to justify devoting a chapter to them. There's much more exciting and important archaeological discoveries that are being made, like Gobekli Tepe, which need more space. And there's some pyramid-like structures or hills in China as well, right?

There's thousands of pyramids in China. Xi'an, the province of xi'an is just the moment you land there from your aircraft you're seeing pyramids everywhere i've been there there are certainly hundreds and hundreds of them distributed across fields vanishing off into the distance in all in all directions they've been terraced and used as agriculture. Local farmers grow crops on them. I went there with Chinese archaeologists. They haven't excavated a single one. Not one.

Why not? This was nearly 10 years ago I was there. They probably got the money now, but they said then they didn't have the money. They said, we're an old country. We don't mind if we wait 200 years to get to grips with this Christ and the famous tomb of the first emperor is part of this pattern it is also a

pyramid it has also not been excavated the terracotta army around it has been found the terracotta armies amazing oh yeah I see that was on display somewhere wasn't it where you can go and see it live yeah they did some kind of travel I want to see that thing I'd want to look at those things what put a bizarre concept now these pyramids so this one that this this emperor was buried in I'd want to see that thing. I'd want to look at those things. What a bizarre concept. Now, these pyramids, so this one that this emperor was buried in that had the terracotta army, was that a pyramid as well? It is a pyramid. It is.

Absolutely. It's a man-made pyramid. The terracotta army was buried around its edges, not in the pyramid itself. So the army was there to protect him? Yeah, to protect his soul into the afterlife seems to have been the idea. And then there's a mythology that's come down, that within the pyramid is a lake of mercury, that there are mechanical devices in there which will fire arrows at you if you go in. There's a whole story about how intensely protected it is. And up to this day, it's not been excavated. That's so crazy. How could someone leave that alone?

And you know, even major archaeological sites like Tiwanaku in Bolivia, for example, you'll find that only about 2% of the site has been excavated. I don't know how we can draw inferences about the whole site from a tiny little fraction like that. And that's the problem, I think, with archaeology. And it's why we have to consider another way. We're looking at an image of the terracotta army now in front of this pyramid, and it is spectacular. Now that I think about it, I don't think that was on display anywhere. I think maybe they had a couple of them.

They brought some of them. They came to the British Museum. There were a number of museums. But it's so much bigger than I thought it was. I mean, there's I mean how many there's thousands yes thousands of these terracotta figures absolutely and this period was made out of what was it stone round earth mainly okay so they just sort of shaped the ground they just dug around yeah they brought in earth and

turned it into a pyramid you'll mount but it wasn't it's not just it's not massive stone blocks it's not massive stone blocks. It's not massive. That's why they can grow crops on the sides of some of these pyramids. Wow. How weird. Yeah. So they would build these giant mounds of dirt and then dig holes in them and support

them. Well, they probably created the interior, you know, subterranean as they were building the whole thing over it. And they just stack dirt on top of it. Yeah. Wow. What a weird way to top of it. Yeah. Wow, what a weird way to make a house.

Yeah. And then we have to consider this with archaeological sites all around the world, is that any site may actually not be the product of just one culture, but may have been reworked and worked over and used by many different cultures over many different periods. This is stunning to me. I found out about this because of a friend of John Anthony West who was here with him He showed me he lives in China and he showed me some video of it And I was like, how do I not know about this? I had no idea there was this many of them

Also, here's one that's exposed What's this? Controversial ancient pyramids of China that one looks exposed. It's my one looks blocky. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that is a Another thing about China that we just don't have a clue. When we think about the age and scale of things, we're so silly. We've only been around since 1776 is when the country was established. It's not really that long ago. You're dealing with China.

You're dealing with literally thousands of years of civilization all rising and falling and taking place and adapting and growing all in this one area. Mm-hmm. That's still in our eyes, in a lot of ways, it's kind of behind, right? I mean, they're behind environmentally, they're behind when it comes to human rights. Consider this, the Portuguese in the late 1400s have rounded the Cape of Good Hope and they've entered the Indian Ocean in their little ships. They've entered the Indian Ocean and they actually establish a huge empire. They go to Malacca. They go all over the place. Okay. The seas are open to

them. If they had come 40 years earlier, they would have encountered the Chinese treasure ships, ships that were 50 times larger than the little caravels that the Portuguese were sailing in. You know what the Chinese did at that time? They went through a period where they felt they just wanted to give gifts to people. And they put together these huge fleets carrying incredibly precious gifts, silks and ceramics. And they took them all around the Indian Ocean, and they just gave them to people. So off the coast of East Africa and in East Africa, you can find remains of this pottery from this episode. And then a Chinese emperor came along, and he closed the doors,

burned all the boats, shut everything down, and didn't let anybody speak to China for 200 years. Whoa, what a dick. Well, he felt that it was time for the Chinese culture to turn inward. Yeah. And they were afraid that their ancient culture, on one hand there might have been maybe a laudable motive in that they were concerned that the ancient culture was going to get contaminated by too much contact with degenerate cultures from other places, and

that was a factor in it. That constant desire to maintain the current situation. We have to say it's some kind of human nature. Yeah, for sure. I'd love to see some of these images of the drone stuff from the Kamas Prairie and what else it was. Yeah, please... And let's have a look at it. You got that material there, James?

I want to get that, show them that picture of you up on the air. Those Chinese pyramids are still blowing my mind. They blow my mind as well. I just can't believe they haven't been excavated. It's an eerie, spooky scene. I mean, I recommend anybody to go to see it. It's incredible how many of them there are and how unexplained it all is. And again, it feeds into my general point is we don't remember our past.

What are we looking at here? Okay, can we pause so I can talk about what we're looking at. Yeah, you look at this one that way you can hit the mic right in front of you. Okay, this is the beginning. But okay, what we're here's what we're like right up to you there. We're looking at a place in western Montana called Camas Prairie. And you see some hills in the foreground and you see a basin in the background. Right? Okay, right here on top of this hill and down on the side here, you see that there are some quarrying operations. Those are quarrying gravel because everything you're looking at here,

this whole landscape between the hills are these large masses of gravel, trillions of tons of gravel. Now, what we're going to do is we're going to start sweeping around as the video plays, and you're going to notice down here a series of ripples. Oh, okay. I see that. Okay, and I'm going to have Jamie pause in a second, but let's keep coming around. Do you start seeing the ripples on the landscape?

Let's pause right there. Right there. Let's pause. Now, I wish I had a pointer, but if you look up, you're going to see a flat piece of land like a tongue coming out, rounded. Yeah, Jamie's right here. He didn't get you a laser. That's a delta. That's a delta.

You know what a delta is? You ever heard of a delta? It's when a river comes into a body of water and it's carrying sediment. And because the river is moving along swiftly, it's carrying the sediment. But when it comes into the standing body of water, it slows down and it drops its sediment. It builds a delta. The whole city of Portland, for example, is built on a giant delta. Right?

New Orleans is built on a delta. Right? Okay, so what we're seeing there is a delta. And then in front of it, we're seeing rippled landscape. Let's keep coming around, Jamie, and so we can- Rippled landscape that looks exactly like the beach looks. Yeah, keep coming around with that. That's the thing, it's fractal, because this is the whole mystery of this, that this happens at a scale of inches on beaches and a scale of hundreds of feet here.

Stop again. Good Lord. Now, right here in the middle, you see a massive delta. Yes. It's like a big tongue splayed out. And then right down here, you start seeing the ripples. And there's a farmhouse. You see the farmhouse there?

Now, those ripples are the tallest ones are about the height of a five-story building. Whoa. How bizarre. Okay, let's keep swinging around here. Stop this for a second, if you don't mind. No, I don't mind. So these things, they're the size of a five-story building. What is that, like 70 feet or something like that?

50 feet. 50 feet? Okay. So those are 50 feet high. And how much water? Judith water we'll get to that let's see let's see the rest of it and these are just dirt right they're they're well if you dig into one what you're going to find is they're they're a massive okay let's pause again look at this this is crazy this is totally crazy this is one of the craziest things you'll ever see

this is crazy this is totally crazy this is one of the craziest things you'll ever see this is these ripples repeated ripples in an area where there's nothing else like it this is the fingerprints of the flood that's what it is wow where can someone look at this how does someone look at this in real you know this right now this is what we're looking at this is this video um at this is this video well my colleague Brad young did this with his drone and I think he's got it on the website geocosmic rack is this being played in the YouTube video right now okay all right so the YouTube people are cool with it if you're listening on iTunes find it find it on YouTube but it's worth looking at is what my point this is this is mind-blowing shit and I think I think you made the crucial point Joe Joe, which is that we can understand what this is because we can see it on any beach.

We can see how water flows receding across a sandy medium will produce ripples. But here, they're on this unbelievable scale where they're hundreds of feet long and 50 feet high where they dwarf houses. And they're lying all across. And what that tells us is that a huge water flow went across this plane and did this you will see it from this perspective above which is a rare perspective unless you're in a plane or a helicopter or something you get a chance to look at it this way you really get a better sense of what it is if you were on the ground there you'd probably say oh look at all the hills it's hard to see you don't quite get the impression though we did visit this this location um and and to that day it was overcast so you don't quite get

the effect like you do when you've got when a low sun angle really helps you to see what what what's going on in the landscape can i ask you is there a dispute to this is there um no no nobody disputes it nobody disputes this from a flood? Not anymore. Wow. No. In fact, it was this JT party. Let's be clear. Nobody disputes that it was caused by massive water flows. Exactly.

But those same people would still not buy into the notion that there was this one humongous flood. Okay. So they think it's an accumulative effect, but that this was all created by water. This was the bottom of Lake Missoula, right? Yes. And this is supposed to actually represent the draining of Lake Missoula. Right. Whereas I argue from a number of different reasons that this is the filling of Lake Missoula.

I have a friend of mine who, his friend lives in Montana, and they found a dinosaur on his ranch. Oh, wow. Yeah, like really recently. That's a nice thing to find. We should come back to that because there's a connection here. Yeah, well, the great western inland sea, all that area, I mean this was a crazy place at one point in time. It still is arguably.

Yeah. In a different way. The water here, Joe, that did this, the way to visualize this is to begin to think of tsunami. You have to think tsunami because tsunami is the closest scale of water flow that we've experienced in in modern times no river flood has even approached this right no no flood in any flood plain nothing that we can put into perspective right the closest the closest we can get to it is a tsunami but even there you got a picture of the tsunamis that we've experienced in

the last decade and a half in Indonesia and Japan. When they made landfall, those tsunamis were roughly between 20 and 50 feet, depending on where you were relative to the oncoming wave and how far distant you were from it. Here what you have to visualize is a tsunami sweeping over the land that's over a thousand feet deep that's that's what happened here and we know that because we can trace the the high water marks on the hillsides are clearly left the high water marks are clearly etched into the into the hillsides so we now know based upon the study of the ripples and the water here was moving down it's filling this base and it's rushing in in a great tsunami from the north of

freshwater meltwater coming off the ice sheet and it's sweeping down over this land at probably two or three hundred million cubic feet per second which is an inconceivable amount of water it's it's many times in excess of every river flowing on earth, flowing today all at once. It's beyond that many times, 10 or 20 times beyond that. One of the trippier things about water is that water in itself is kind of fractal in some sort of a weird way. When you look at the actual molecules of water, it's almost like we don't distinguish it as being a fractal thing because we see it as like this moving flow. But if you're looking at the actual molecules of water it's almost like we don't we don't distinguish it as being a fractal thing because we see it as like this moving flow but if you're looking at the actual molecules of water a cup of water that you dip your fingers in which is seemingly completely innocuous becomes

this massive element of change when the volume is a thousand feet high and just rolling over with massive amounts of weight behind it it's that over with massive amounts of weight behind it. It's that same stuff. Massive amounts of weight. Enough weight that it's actually causing seismic responses. You can only imagine. How much weight are you talking about that can create these 50 foot high walls? But what's fascinating to me is that we don't have a scale in our minds as a reference, like the difference between that little cup and these gigantic waves that you see that surfers travel by jet ski to get to off of, I believe it's Mexico. Right. You ever seen those massive waves?

They go way out, miles out to get to these crazy waves, and we ride them in. They're like 60, 70 feet high. Like that's the comparison almost like a glass of water to those waves. And then that to this. It scales up, it scales up, it scales up. And at a certain point, it can change the whole story of civilization. Almost doesn't compute. You can intellectualize it, but it's almost not computing. One of these flood flows here is three orders of magnitude greater than the largest measured modern flood. In other words, over 1,000 times greater. In terms of peak discharge or volume, you would have to scale up at least 1,000 times greater than any modern measured flood to get to the smallest, really, of these flows here. Because this is just one place, one locale on five states where you can trace literally

an ocean of fresh water sweeping across the entire Pacific Northwest, pretty much washing away anything that was there. It's almost like we have a defense mechanism built in where we ignore How vulnerable we really are like we put it maybe that's one of the reasons why people are so reluctant to really go deep into studying Asteroidal impacts I think or or even to pay attention to this stuff like that this could happen Hmm, and this is I mean those are not two separate subjects because this is the result of the comet impact on the ice cap. This is why I feel that the research in this field is so vital.

Okay, right there. Yeah. Now here, notice. This is crazy. That's a beach. Yeah, but it's a beach for giant monsters is what it is. You can see in this here that you've actually got three massive currents converging here. Do you see that over here on the right, you've got a massive current coming in that would be from the west.

And then we would be standing looking down current. Of course, the drone I'm guessing here is about 200 feet in elevation. So the top of the water was another 800 to 900 feet above this perspective right here. And it's moving very, very fast. And it's sweeping down into a river valley that's down in those mountains you see in the distance. And from there, it's being carried down and joining up other equally as large floods coming in from other valleys. And all of this is happening at once, and it's covering five states, basically.

And that's just one region that's being affected by this sudden catastrophic melting of the ice sheets. We are dealing with the largest flood that ever occurred on Earth. It's as simple as that. This is insane. I mean, it's insane to look at. And it happened here in north america and it happened 12 800 years ago and its story has yet to be fully told isn't it possible there was something larger before like uh the 65 million year ago one that hit the yucatan like what you know what kind of an impact did that have

well it actually would because if it if that had happened 12,000 years ago, we wouldn't be having our meeting today. None of us would be here. Yeah, that would be a wrap, right? Yeah, that was a single large object about six miles wide. That was a much more devastating impact than the impacts of 12,800 years ago. But nevertheless, those impacts of 12,800 years ago were really, really bad. And they did stuff like this. And anything that was in the way of this, of these massive flows of water, would have been rubbed completely from the story.

This all makes sense. Yeah. And here's the thing that the Michael Shermers don't get. When you understand the extent of this, the scale of this phenomena, and the severity, the inconceivable severity of this phenomena and the severity the the un inconceivable severity of this in the aftermath of an event like this what would remain of a of a city a village a refrigerator uh uh no not a goddamn thing nothing nothing not much nothing would exist in the aftermath of this and most things wouldn't exist i mean you find like an old refrigerator or a car up on blocks in someone's backyard in the south and it's the 1970s and

the rot has gotten into the frame. Nature's going to eat it up. Yeah, nature's eaten it up just in a couple of decades. Right. What's it going to be like in a couple thousand years? It's going to be non-existent. We should not be surprised about how little we really know about our past. This is also a comfort game with archaeology. Oh yeah,

we've got the past all worked out. We understand it. Here it is. This is what we teach in schools. This is also a comfort game with archaeology. Oh, yeah, we've got the past all worked out. We understand it here. This is what we teach in schools. This is what our friends in the media report. This is the fact. It's not the facts. We know nothing. There's been so much lost,

so many missing pieces of the puzzle that we're desperately trying to stitch together. And it's important, I think, that we actually do get some clarity on events like this because we still live on this planet and we have Kids and we have a future and we want to hopefully want to hopefully we want to follow those big boys comes our way Well, that's that's right But again, I come I come down to this which is which is that we are not

Dealing with gloom and doom and the end of the world We're dealing with a problem that humanity should be confronting. We should not be sticking our heads in the sand. We should be confronting this problem. And that's why I support the work of the Comet Research Group, because they are the only people right now who are confronting this problem and really getting to grips with it. We should all confront. I mean, we should absolutely all support them and confront it, because if something like this can happen once, what really makes sense is how many stories of floods there are in ancient times and how many parallels there are. And how many there are from North America. Oh, dozens and dozens.

Yeah, it was the Caitlin, the Indian artist who spent 30 years or so pre-Civil War, I think maybe a decade after the Civil War, painting Indians of different tribes. And he wrote a book called Last Rambles Among the North American Indians. Very, very interesting book. But what really is interesting to me when I read the book years and years ago was his final conclusion of the book. He says, after all of these different customs and traditions that have been handed down amongst these tribes, they all have one thing in common.

They all have a memory or a story of a gigantic world-destroying flood. And this has included tribes down into Central America that he visited. I believe the Americas are the repository. The Native American peoples who have been subjected to so much destruction over the years, in their mythology, their traditions, their memories, they keep more of this than almost anybody else. It's really tragic what has happened in the

Americas from the time of the Spanish conquest, the deliberate destruction of knowledge, the terrible, horrendous abuses that Native American people suffered. They are our wisdom keepers. They are the people who passed down the oral tradition and and remembered the past so not only do we have cataclysms wiping the human memory but we ourselves actively get involved in the human memory and wipe it we rub it out the burning of the Maya codices by the Spanish friars thousands and thousands what was in those documents yeah you know we might have had a whole other story about ourselves if we could have had access to those but instead where this destructive cannibalistic species that just goes and smashes everything to bits.

It's a weird impulse that human beings have is when they move into an area and take over it, one of the things they like to do is destroy their icons. Destroy everything. Well, it's going on with ISIS and all these ancient Buddhist structures. Yes. Thousand plus year old beautiful sculptures. Absolutely. They're blowing them up and yelling praise God while they're doing it.

It's really very bizarre. It's a very bizarre inclination that we have. But it's almost like we don't want people to know. It's a bizarre almost human instinct to wipe out the past and just to constantly keep moving forward. Or is there some trauma? Is there some collective trauma, some deeply suppressed memory that we can't quite confront? That's exactly the thought I had

because I think that's the one way, one of those areas where Velikovsky finally really nailed it was mankind in amnesia, that somehow we carry this, the trauma. Because once you begin to get a handle and you get to get the picture of these events as they occurred and did occur and would have been experienced by our ancestors, you've got to understand what would it be like to see your entire world completely obliterated, starting over again from basically a barren mud field.

You know, that's essentially what these people were faced with. If they lived at all. And so few probably did. Well, obviously they did because here we are. But, you know, again, the evidence is emerging of major cultural collapse. If you had a guess, what percentage of the population of human beings, this is obviously just a guess, but how many do you think were wiped out? Half of them? Three-quarters of them?

I don't think that would be unrealistic. No. It doesn't seem like it would be. And if it was that number and those people, that's enough for people to survive. Three quarters of them? I don't think that would be unrealistic. No. It doesn't seem like it would be. And if it was that number, and those people, that's enough for people to survive. And if it was that number, boy, what a strange fucking mythical past they would have. The other thing to bear in mind is, in the world today, our world, we have an advanced civilization.

America, you know, Germany, the industrialized technological countries, and we have coexisting with them in South America, in the Namibian desert, we have hunter-gatherers. So the notion that hunter-gatherers and an advanced civilization might coexist in the same epoch of history should not be strange to us because we're doing that today. And that's what I would suggest happened before 12,800 years ago, before the cataclysm of 12,800 years ago,

that there was a fairly advanced civilization that was capable of mapping and exploring the world, creating gigantic works of architecture, and it coexisted with hunter-gatherers. And who were the ones who survived the cataclysm? And who were the ones who survived the cataclysm? The answer is the ones who survived the cataclysm were the hunter-gatherers, not the sophisticated peoples. A few of them survived and they then settled amongst the hunter-gatherers and tried to transfer some of their knowledge and skills to them. And it's the same today. If we were to have

a repeat of the Younger Dryas cataclysm today, I don't think that people from Los Angeles or London would be amongst the leading survivors. I think the survivors would be people like the hunter-gatherers of the Amazon rainforest because they're in the business of surviving. That's what they do. It's not a mystery to them. It's not even a problem. They do it all the time. They would carry the human story forward. And 10,000 years from now, their descendants would be telling a problem. They do it all the time. They would carry the human story forward. And 10,000 years from now, their descendants would be telling a myth about how there was once a great civilization on this planet, so advanced that they could even go to the moon. They could fly around the planet. They could speak to one another on other sides of the earth. But they did something wrong. They fell out of harmony with the universe.

They ceased to wear their prosperity with moderation. That's actually a line from Plato about Atlantis. Wow. And the universe slapped them down. So there would be a differential survival rate. Those who were, I would say that those who are more technologically advanced are less likely to survive because they depend on a complex interrelated network of skills and any individual on his or her own most of them well you're different joe because you do know how to survive but a lot of people don't know how to survive barely know

how to survive i'd most likely at least you've worked at it yeah but i'm not that good at it but most of us most of us haven't even worked at it at all we haven't got a clue let me fucking open everybody's eyes to all these people that think that you could just go out there and shoot Animals and stay alive good fucking luck You're you're probably screwed if you have a rifle even if you have a rifle You're probably screwed if you have a bow and arrow you're gonna fucking starve to death right it's Extremely difficult yes to get close You know and yet hunter-gatherers for thousands and thousands of years have succeeded in doing

that, like the Bushmen of the Kalahari. I think there was less humans and more animals. Right. I think that's also part of the rub. Okay. It's like we're dealing with just, one of the terrible things we've done is taking these giant swaths of land and made them entirely inhabitable for wildlife, like cities. How many people grow food in the city?

What is the percentage? Is it even one-tenth of one percent of people in the city grow their own food? Probably not. It's probably not even that. So you have these massive, essentially deserts where no wildlife exists other than predatory species like coyotes and ravens and things like that. And then you go out from there, and then you have these vast farmlands yes the only benefit of the vast farmlands is the amount of deer that exists now is greatly more than when Columbus landed but it's because

they've almost become an agricultural animal it's almost like they're almost a domesticated animal they're a free wild domesticated animal like I have a friend who has a farm in Iowa and when you go there, it's very strange because he's got these wild giant 300 pound forest horses running around his backyard. I mean they're fucking everywhere. There's all these giant deer and when we were there, it's what's called the rut. So all these they're very horny so the big bucks who usually hide they show themselves. I'm like, this is a crazy place. Like there's all these wild animals that exist along with people. And even in a game-rich place like that, it's incredibly difficult to get to one. And you'd have to have vegetables.

You'd have to have your own vegetables. So let's imagine a situation where all the resources of our cities, all the amenities, all the infrastructure are gone. Most of us are fucked. Yeah, all the amenities all the infrastructure are gone most of us are fucked I would say radically our I would say in fact our civilization which appears so strong is actually very very Fragile extremely it just a little push. It's like when you look out the window, and you're like wow. That's the outside No, that's a piece of glass you're outside. It's not that piece of glass and you're outside You know the effortless it is it just seems impenetrable because you pull the shades tight and you set your alarm clock and you sleep.

You're sleeping next to glass. It's hilarious. You feel confident and yet you're sleeping next to a piece of fucking glass. There's this incredible complacency and arrogance of modern civilization that we are the apex and pinnacle of the human story, that we're the best that's ever come. And that's a danger. Mythologically, that is a very dangerous place to be. When you start imagining yourself as the apex and the pinnacle of everything, that's precisely

when the universe reminds you that you are not that at all. Yeah. It's a very weird existence that we have where we just sort of look at how things are right now and we can't imagine things being any different no matter what whether it's people that have to come to uh the realization that they've been injured like someone breaks their leg and all of a sudden it just doesn't compute like how come i can't walk anymore well your reality is now shifted and this reality that we have here with this fairly healthy earth could shift at any moment. The Yellowstone volcano is the one that's been freaking me out the most over the last few years.

Another big issue. Yeah. An interesting parallel would be if we look at what happens in smaller catastrophes like we've seen today. When we look at, for example, when Katrina hit New Orleans, right, it was almost as if the human species separated into two subspecies. You had one group of people that rose to the occasion and did heroic things. They organized and they saved people spontaneously, you know, because the government was conspicuously absent for five days, the first five days of the Katrina disaster. And here you had a major flooding of New Orleans, and you had people spontaneously organizing and performing these heroic actions of saving their fellow man and doing just stupendous things, superhero-type things.

But then you had another segment of the population that just went completely barbaric. And you had mass rapes and smashing of businesses and looting and just people running in wild, complete, unrestrained gangs and just committing violent acts at random. And America, the richest country on earth, did not manage that crisis well. No. I mean, it was very, and that was a little crisis by comparison with what we're talking about here.

You remember when Kanye West got on TV? George Bush does not like black people. I don't remember that, but yeah. George Bush, I think it was on day four, George Bush flew over in Air Force One and looked out the window. Waved. Yeah, yeah. Give people hope. But there's lessons in those kinds of events.

Sure. Yeah, we're not prepared. And we have to extrapolate from that. And, you know, if you go back, you know, I oftentimes as a thought exercise think how would we respond if we knew that there was a high probability of a Younger Dryas type event or series of events impending in our future. What would you do? Start drinking? Well, it all depends on lead time. Right. It all depends on lead time.

What if it's a 10-day lead time? You're not going to be able to shoot a rocket up there. Listen, man, fire up that Uber again and let's just go hard to the end. Yeah. 10 days. But 10 years or 20 years. Then we can do some stuff. Then we can do some stuff. Then we can do some stuff.

The real scary thing is, there's two scary things. One, if you survived. Because you're like, fuck. If you really did survive and everybody else was jacked and all of a sudden you're dealing with some Mad Max type reality where people are starving to death and they're very desperate and they become almost like animals. That's entirely inside the realm of become almost like animals that's entirely inside the realm of possibility well that's what we learned from katrina or the other terrifying possibility is that you leave the future of civilization up to those other people is that they survive and they have kids and their kids survive and somehow or another somewhere

along the line we get better and better at understanding our place here, which is what I think has happened. And all it would take is one. I mean, this is as much as people are complaining right now, as much as there's riots in the streets because or excuse me, protests in the street, some riots apparently. But over the president elect what this time is, it represents the greatest time in history when it comes to safety, when comes to knowledge access to information the way we understand each other I don't think it's ever been better as far as as long as we know we have everything at our feet yeah there's there's incredible potential in modern civilization the but the problem is that there's also very rigid mind control the way that our societies work is it's turning people into drones.

People brought up to believe that their only purpose in existence is production and consumption. That people are forced to fit into a sort of narrow place in the machine. Mass media beaming messages at us all the time. Even the concept of democracy is absurd. When you don't have complete transparency, when there are secrets, when things are hidden. How can the people vote with a clear mind if a lot is being hidden from them? That's not democracy. Democracies, in fact, invest in mind control.

Most unfortunate development. wonder how long it's going to take before the rigid mindsets that are in place right now and this idea of this resistance to change that we were talking about when it comes to science when it comes to the accepting this uh asteroidal impact theory and i think that exists in politics i think it exists in religion i think it exists socially the way we approach relationships and friendships and just all of it is evolving in front of our eyes. I was watching a movie last night. Um, not another teenage movie. Is that what it is? Is that what it's called? And I was live tweeting it. So smoking pot and writing. And, uh, sometimes I just like to have the TV on and not listen to it. Just, just sometimes I like

to like see some things when I'm just writing things. Sometimes I don't. Last night I chose to do it that way. And I just got so enamored in this weird movie from 2001. The movie felt like a time machine. It's like I was watching this culture that does not exist anymore. It's one of those teenager movies where they're in college and they're drinking. There's a lot of naked women and really racist, sexist humor. And it's really crude and goofy and stupid. And I'm like, this is so bizarre because this doesn't exist anymore, this kind of film. This is like Al Jolson with blackface on or something. And in a way, it's like a cultural time machine.

You get to go and for a brief moment See like this comedy that somebody concocted in 2001 which seems so recent But it's such a in that film you get evidence of this weird cultural change or since a weird Massive cultural change that's happened as far as the way we're allowed to joke around about things I'm just some racist shit in that, like racist and sexist shit and violence, like men punching women in the face and shit like that. You just can't really do in a comedy today. And that's only 15 years ago. And what is it going to be like if we can avoid getting hit by a rock, blowing ourselves up, Yellowstone blowing up in our face? If we can keep going, I think we're on a great path,

regardless of what people think about the president-elect and I think we're on a great path. It's a hazardous past path It's a it's a path where the future is not at all certain but but humanity is at one of those Moments one of those crossroads where you kind of stand on the edge of an abyss and and you don't quite know What lies ahead and we can take a really great path out of this or we can take a really horrible path out of this. And I think the key issue is that we do actually have choice. It doesn't have to be that way. I see a lot that's positive out there in the world. I do think people are waking up.

I think they are questioning old structures. They're refusing to put up with the bullshit any longer. More and more people are doing that. It's happening in the realm of politics. It's happening in the realm of dealing with the big corporations. It's happening in the realm of investigating the past. We're just not going to be told what to think anymore. That's encouraging. But then on the other side, there are huge efforts being put precisely into making people think in certain ways, whether it's the advertising industry, whether it's political messages. And so we have to be aware of that. And it could go down the drone path. I mean, like the beehive path, which would be, why even bother to be human if your society is turning you into a worker drone and a beehive life existence? Or it could go down an expansion of consciousness and and and a realization of the incredible beautiful potential of the human race i honestly feel like that's where it's going i do honestly i'm optimistic i'm very optimistic well that's beautiful to hear because this is a time like i was watching the john oliver show it's a great show on hbo very funny guy and he's very

left-wing uh leaning as is his show but they had this fuck 2016 thing where they were just naming off all the horrible things that happened in 2016 and then just saying goodbye to this terrible year I'm like a lot of good shit happened this year too there's a lot of fantastic discoveries a lot of interesting observations a lot of people learned a lot of things in 2016 as well and I think that and quite a number of people learned a lot of things in 2016 as well. And I think that- And quite a number of American states have made cannabis legal. Yes.

That's, I think- It's a huge development. It's also a big, it's going to be a big factor in our cultural evolution. It really will. Well, it was a big factor in the 60s. It was a huge factor. In effect, what happened, you had a very closed conservative society and then you had an outside shock in the form of the psychedelic drugs that came in and completely stirred up everything in art and music and fashion and even into scientific concepts of our place in the universe and time and space. And in so many ways, that had just a major impact on the direction that our society went.

And what would be the equivalent today or in our near future in terms of an outside shock that would suddenly wake people up would be another event, another Tunguska event. And based upon everything that I've seen, it would suggest that events like that are going to happen and probably within our lifetime. And when it does happen, especially if the message of the story has been out and enough people have heard it, 5% of the people or 10% of the people are aware that there is this major impending potential paradigm shift. And then we have an event like that, an event like Tunguska 1908. I think that's all it would take because the magnitude of that event would have been such that it occurred today and you had anywhere from a million to two million people instantly wiped out or a whole city instantly annihilated from a thing, a shot

from space, what effect would that have on the planetary consciousness? And which with this latest exercise, NASA coming late to the party finally seems to be thinking about. What happened if LA is hit by a 350 foot diameter? Right, and that's the thing

is because when the probability models for a Tunguska type event were first laid out in the 50s and 60s and into the 70s it was pretty much determined that it was like something that would happen once a millennium once every couple of millenniums then it sort of got contracted to once every few centuries you know it may be that it's actually much more like one or two a century, or maybe even perhaps clustered events where you may have three or four or half a dozen of those type events occurring over a very short window of time. by any means. But an event like that that could, you know, wipe out a thousand square miles of landscape completely in an instant would have a major effect, I think, on the people of this planet. It would focus minds. It would focus minds in a way that nothing else would. And I,

it's not, to me, is it pessimistic to say that might be what it's going to take, or is it just realistic? I don't know. Well, I think it's like the massive impact versus the slow trickle effect. I mean, is it going to happen eventually or is it going to happen in one gigantic swoop because of an event like an asteroidal impact where it kills a bunch of people and we wake up to the fragility of our existence? But either way, it's a waking up of humanity and that is in process that is happening that is in process now look as a as a Brit observing what's been happening in America as an outsider I'm enormously encouraged by the legalization of cannabis movement that is that is taking

place here and and and what it and what it all means sure I like to smoke a joint but this is not about getting high it's not about recreation what this is about is recognizing the sovereignty of adults to make decisions over their own bodies, their own health, and their own consciousness while doing no harm to others. That's what it's about. And that's a really fucking important issue. For me, that is the most important issue because if we live in a society that is not prepared to recognize adult sovereignty over one's own body and one's own consciousness, then that cannot be a free society in any meaningful way. And so I applaud the people of America in those states who have voted for full legalization.

That's a brilliant thing to do, and that's going to have an impact around the world because the war on drugs, all the ideology and lies about cannabis are all going to be proved wrong. We're going to know that the emperor wears no clothes, that you can legalize cannabis and civilization does not fall apart, as the war on drugs lobby have been telling us for ages. It's going to change everything, and it's a beautiful thing because it's the American people, whereas the American state, America as a governmental state presence on the world stage,

has been the dark force behind the war on drugs. So it's for me a beautiful thing that it's the American people state by state who are winding that back and saying, we will not put up with this shit anymore. I think what you were talking about earlier is really important too. We were talking about different factions of our civilization are creating to this day, they're still creating Disinformation and still trying to absolutely mislead people

But I think that goes to what we're talking about before where it's a system and systems protect themselves Oh, yeah, and I think they develop almost a consciousness of their own. It's scary in a way. Yeah, yeah bureaucracies armed bureaucracies They got a kind of personality. Well, even when there's no financial stake in it There's just a social stake. Like what you're seeing right now with the left versus the right. Like there's some people, like my friend Wanda Sykes just got booed off stage at some thing last night apparently. Where she went on some anti-Trump rant and people got super upset at her. There's these systems that are in place. This almost like wanting to fight

like it's not it sets us up in this bizarre team mentality where this left protects its ideas of the future and the right protects its ideas and i'm watching these people go at it back and forth on social media and it's toxic and i don't like to use that term because it's so compromised by toxic sexuality or toxic masculinity. There's so many uses of that word in our culture. But I think that this desire to fight with each other. Yeah, and be deeply unpleasant and say really horrible, hurtful, ghastly things. You see it so often and really, I mean, vile.

And from the left too, as well as the right. The left is supposed to be the people that are- It's toxic. It's the right word. Exactly. And I think that we have to resist the urge to fight. I think this is when people push too far on the left, that's when the alt-right emerges. When people push too far on the right, that's when the left comes up.

And that's when Kent State emerges. You have all these weird factions duking it out that have so much in common. Yeah. And a lot of times the things that they don't have in common, it's either because of an ignorance or it's because of an ideological dispute or a lack of communication. And I think if those three things are in place, at least open lines of communication, which is also fostered by marijuana. You get these people talking openly and vulnerably about these things, and you find out that a lot of our misgivings and our misunderstandings about each other are just misconceptions, miscommunications. And even if we disagree on things, I have friends that I disagree on a lot of stuff with,

but we're very close because you're allowed to have different opinions. Of course, that's what makes the world interesting. It doesn't have to be we hate each other because one person's laughing. We can listen to somebody else's opinion with empathy rather than with hatred or anger. We're too, it's too attractive to be on a team. Like the fucking Masons. It's the Herdman calendar. Yeah, it is, man.

It's too attractive. It's too attractive. And we love, I mean, we love city versus city. We love that. We love when, you know, Chicago is going to take on Cleveland. Fuck you. We love that we love when you know Chicago is gonna take on Cleveland Fuck you. We love that the tribal is the tribal thing. We you know, we've not really evolved out of that We've changed our social structures, but we're still tribal tribal mentality. We should name nationalism is just tribalism writ large Yes, it really is just like us religions just a cult with a lot more people. Yeah, exactly

Yeah, should we look at one more? Yeah, we could look at as many as you want man. Oh roll the party It really is. Just like religion is just a cult with a lot more people. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Should we look at one more? Yeah, we could look at as many as you want, man. Cool. Roll the party. What do you got? Yeah. Let's see the next one.

Back to the flood. This is the place that I didn't get to take Graham, that I really, really wanted to. Okay. I really wanted to take you here. Let's see it. Let's see it. So you're going to see it second best. Okay.

Possibly. Now this is the potholes. Holy shit. Look at possibly. This is the potholes. Holy shit. Look at that. This is crazy. What we're looking at, folks, the people who are just listening in, you have to go to the YouTube now because this is insanity. This is as close for a dummy like me to look at something like that and then go, oh, fucking, yeah, that's definitely a river. A river carved that.

Okay, what you're looking at there is a gigantic extinct set of cataracts like you would find at Niagara Falls. But to use Graham's term, writ large. We're looking at a ridge. We're looking east. The tsunami wave that swept down over these four states, one branch of it swept off to the west. This particular branch of it was 400 feet deep when it hit this ridge. And what it did was it spilled over the ridge and down here in the foreground you see the modern day Columbia River. From the top of the ridge where you see the agriculture and the landscape down to the rivers, about 1,000 feet. Wow. So you basically have to picture you've got this huge sheet of water, 300 to 400 feet deep.

It's rushing over, and it finds the lowest spot within this ridge, and that's where it starts focusing its energy. And as it does, it begins to just strip away the rock. Now, what you're looking at here is this cataract complex is about five miles across. And the water came and you see you've got those kind of curved finger lakes at the top. And those tunnels. Those are potholes. That's insane. Potholes are formed by underwater turbulence. And in a flood this swiftly moving with this much turbulence,

you literally have vorticular eddies, high intensity, high amplitude, high energy underwater tornadoes, literally underwater tornadoes. Now, these underwater tornadoes are typically, in this case, about a half a mile wide. Oh, my God. And they're spinning at a high rate of speed.

And right there, they're probably 600 feet deep because the water pouring over the ridge is at least 200 and you can see what it's done to the bedrock. Anybody listening you gotta you gotta look at this you have to look at this and then listen to the scale. This is this is a gigantic scar in the landscape of which there are hundreds around this region. And the exact location, Randall? This is Potholes Cataract, the exact location. Somebody wants to get to it, which we're in Washington State still? Yes, we're in Washington State. Central Washington, it's going to be right on the Columbia River, just below Wenatchee.

Okay, where we saw that huge erratic. Yes, very close to that. Giant 18,000 ton boulder brought there enchained in an iceberg. An iceberg floating on the flood. An iceberg the size of an oil tanker carrying an 18,000 ton boulder. Carried on the flood. Grounds 700 feet up

a valley side. Rests there as the floodwaters recede. The ice melts away and the boulder is left sitting there. We're going to look at a picture of that boulder in a second. What do the people back in this part of the country, what do they think about this? Well, you know, they're only just catching on to what they're sitting on top of. Jesus Christ. The first time I went out here in 98, there was the Ice Age Floods Institute, and I went

to their only location, which was in the Better Business Bureau in Moses Lake, Washington. And they had one room in the back of this Chamber of Commerce, and there was two elderly ladies in there who were basically the overseers of the group. Now there's about two dozen chapters. of the group. Now there's about two dozen chapters, and every year there's several guided field trips led by geologists who are studying this in their off time, and I've been on a number of these just to participate and get the access to the geologists in order to pick their brains. But this is very close to Wenatchee, Washington, so if anybody's wanting to find this on Google Earth, this is a Google Earth image. Now what we're going to do, oh, but before we leave the Google Earth image, I was going

to explain that you've got those, see those lakes, those meandering lakes up there? What you've got to picture is you've got a sheet of water coming, and as it's coming over this ridge, it's beginning to selectively erode into fault lines and cracks within the bedrock. Can you picture that? The water is going to naturally try to go into those low spots where there's cracks and fissures, and it'll start going from a sheet into channeling. What goes from sheet to a channel, then that spills over the ridge. And in the middle, you see this, it's called a rock blade.

See that? The rock blade is that, yes, that's it right there, separating the two alcoves. If the flood had continued for another few days, that rock blade would have been gone, and you would have had a single alcove up there. Now in the next, as this proceeds, what we're going to do is we're going to go down, and we're going to be right at the head of the rock blade. Right there, yeah, right there. We're standing right there.

So now you're going to get to see, as the drone is about to take off, you're seeing the landscape. We're looking to the east in the direction of those finger lakes. And I guess the soundtrack. Is it not playing in the sound? No. Oh, there we go. Oh, you want to hear it a little takata

in and fugue in d minor oh okay and the landscape opens up so you're on that rock blade we're on the rock blade right there so now you can begin to see the scale of this thing that we were just seeing from google earth well now the way when you describe it i mean i i would have just looked at it and go wow that's kind of cool looking. I would have never have thought, oh, that was obviously created by water pouring through. That's the problem is because we haven't had the scale of perception. It took Bratz 25 years to put the pieces together. Well, also, we haven't been able to take these sort of high resolution photographs right above it till recently

yeah that's that's it gives us a whole other insight i mean it used to be a thousand dollars an hour to get up there in a helicopter now you can fly a drone around you know with a phone yeah exactly gopro on it right here in the middle ground you see that big hole that's about 200 feet in diameter that's a that's a pothole that was created by this swirling vortex of massively turbulent water. Holy shit, this is incredible. In other words, the evidence is all over the landscape, staring us in the eyes. And it's only in the recent years that it's started to make sense. Well, we've evolved the eyes to be able to see this.

And so now by going out here with a drone, I've been over this landscape several times in a small plane to see it from that perspective. But now, like he just said, like Graham just said, now we've got a drone that can go up and see it from a whole different perspective. And now you can see the man standing right down there

on the rock. Do you see him? Oh, that little dude? Yeah. That little dude is six feet tall. He's not that little dude yeah that little dude yeah that little that little dude is six feet tall he's not that little i mean on the picture he's little no no in real life he's actually only four inches it's it's it's an illusion what's to me stunning i mean this is really beautiful and cool and everything like that but what's really stunning is the initial picture where it becomes so obvious that above picture where you see the farmland and that just it's so obviously cut.

Cut. Sliced out of the landscape. Well, let's see the rest of it then as the drone flies over. Yeah. So and then we have what's called classic scab land. You see all these mounds, these kind of lumps? That's what are the scabs on the scab land. That's why it's called scab land. And again, it's flooding that causes it.

Plucking, differentially plucking material off the surface. Wow. This is incredible. And then there's water remaining. Yeah, that filled the potholes, yeah. God. There you get a sense. Oh, my God.

There you get a sense of the rock blade. Well, there you get a sense of what the volume of water must have looked like when it was rushing through there. Right. And see, this is just... Holy shit. We've looked at two features now, Camas Prairie and Potholes Cataract. We could sit here for the next 10 hours looking at dozens and dozens of these mega features. And you look at, there's a whole bar.

This is a gravel bar down here. Over there. And look at, see the giant r bar. This is a gravel bar down here. Over there. And look at, see the giant ripples on it? You see those? Yeah. I've never seen those reported in the literature. It may be that nobody's ever really seen them before. Or no one's ever paid attention.

Nobody's ever paid attention, but there they are. So what does mainstream science use to describe this sort of, or mainstream archaeology used to describe these features this would be geology well catastrophic yeah what would they so they believe this is catastrophic flooding as well I just think it's a slower they think it's lots of small catastrophic floods they're not not one not one big catastrophic flood and how what kind of timeline are these geologists putting on this oh two or three thousand years yeah and why do they think that? Well, because of the ice dam model and how much time it would take.

See, it gets complicated. And because until the comet research, there was no credible source of heat that could melt that amount of ice and cause that. Now that's the new factor that's come into the equation. Now look at the people standing on the cliff edge there, the edge of the rock. Do you see them down there? Yeah. So now you get the sense of what would survive again in the aftermath. Not that dude.

No, not that dude. Not that dude or his buddies. Yeah. This is a crazy place, man. It's crazy to look at. It's just so, when you're looking above it, like even here, I mean, you get a sense of it. But if you had just showed this to me, quite honestly, I probably wouldn't have pieced that together. But when you look at it, the original image, it's so blatantly obvious.

Right. Well, that's the thing now is we are in this position where we can see it. is we are in this position where we can see it. And when I take people out in the field, what I do is I prep them first by showing these images from NASA, the satellite photography, the Google Earth imagery, aerial photography, then ground photography, and then you go out in the landscape.

And at that point, you can start having this framework for understanding what you're seeing. Otherwise, you just don't. The scale of it is too vast. It's amazing. It's really amazing. And this is, you know, this is an adventure of exploration that we're just getting launched on.

This is recovering the lost past of humanity. And if I may, I want to make a pitch game for the comments for the comet research group if anybody i think it's really important it's not it's it's not just a matter of funding their research it's also a matter of sending a message that we the people are prepared to take matters into our own hands and and support those scientists who are working with open minds inquiring into the past

whether you know give a dollar or a100 or whatever, any little counts. It's the voice of the people as much as the money that really matters. These guys, the Comet Research Group, they need their research funding. They have an Indiegogo crowdfunding campaign. You can go to my website, press the Comet Research Group banner. It will take you to a page with all the relevant links. Please consider supporting it. It's valid, it's worthwhile, it's worthy work,

and it has the potential to change the whole story of our past and our future. And it's a story that would be incredibly exciting to be a part of. And that's what I'm trying to get people to think. Look, there's this thing happening, and it really, it is democratic in its own way. And you don't have to be some specialist or a particular authority in some branch of academically approved science to begin to appreciate and understand this. Well, you're a human being. Getting out into the field and seeing this kind of stuff firsthand, getting it into the discussion,

into debate, and spending more time on this because it's such an interesting story. And that's what the scientists at the Comet Research Group are offering, that the people who contribute will participate in certain ways in this research in the future. That's awesome. What I was going to say is we're all human beings. We're a part of this planet. We are pedestrians walking along, we're being carried by this planet. And all this stuff is our right. It's your right to understand what the history of this crazy rock has gone through. Absolutely. This is amazing.

It's amazing stuff. And the perspective to understand this is like this. For 12,000 years, this story has been written into the landscape of the earth. And only now are we able to step back and begin to see the big picture in tandem with ever greater detail. And what's emerging is really, it's a really wild tale, but the evidence is there to support it completely.

And this is, I mean, this is what I've, this is the story I've told in Magicians of the Gods. This is recovering this lost memory. It really is wild. Our time here on this planet has been confusing for so many reasons. One of the big ones is not understanding how we got here, and that's one of the reasons why your book, I think, is so important to me, to give you this new perspective of how this sort of civilization emerged. Another problem that I think we deal with all the time is light pollution. I think

light pollution... We never see the stars. I think it's really a perspective blocker in a big way. No, it absolutely is. Randall and I were having a discussion earlier about how ancient cultures related to the cosmos. As above, so below. They felt themselves connected with the cosmos as above so below they felt themselves connected with the cosmos they made their monuments in alignment with key celestial bodies they did it very carefully there was a sense of bringing down the enchantment of the heavens onto on onto earth in modern societies we can't even see the stars you live in the middle of a big city the stars are gone the light the light pollution just blots them out you never think they're there and you forget actually that you're part of a majestic cosmos. Everything about

it is mystery. We are immersed in mystery from the moment we're born to the moment we die. And yet our society is telling us, oh, it's all very prosaic and dull and it's just about production and consumption. Everything's all explained. So you don't really need to worry yourself about it too much because some authority somewhere has it all figured out. No one has it all figured out. It's not possible. I think everybody owes it to themselves to go out into the desert in the middle of,

when you know there's a stretch where the moon is not going to be out, and there's going to be clear skies, especially if you live in Southern California, you can get out to the desert pretty easy. Just get out away from all the cities and just look up, and it'll freak you out. It'll freak you out because it's one of those things that you kind of really take for granted because most of the time the sky is just a dark black featureless thing with a little couple little white dots that aren't really that compelling but when you get out there and you see the actual milky way itself you go oh holy shit well see now have, you know, every year there's probably a dozen high-altitude events

that could have been witnessed by ancient peoples that we are completely oblivious to because of our urban existence, because of light pollution, because nobody is really looking at the sky. But these high-altitude events would be essentially equivalent to, like, Hiroshima-sized bombs going off 20 miles up. And we missed those? Just outside, yeah. It's basically like if it's in the daytime, and you're not looking right up there,

you're not going to see it. And at night, if you're living in the city, if you're inside, the light pollution, by the time it happens, it's over. But if you're out in a completely wilderness area where you've got visual access to the stars and you're aware of that and you're constantly aware of the presence of the sky you're going to see much more of that kind of thing happening then if the cosmos decides to get a little bit more active

which it apparently does from time to time suddenly the sky is now uh becomes a major factor in your in your existence, your tribal existence, your cultural existence, especially if in those episodes you have multiple fireball-type events that could be on the scale of anywhere from Chelyabinsk up to Tunguska, and that's what Klub and Napier, that's their scenario, is these clusters of... We enter episodes of bombardment. Episodes of bombardment.

When we are passing through a filament of the torrid meteor stream that's thick with heavy debris. Asteroids of a kilometer or more in diameter. When we enter those filaments, we are entering a period of episodic bombardment when human civilization is at risk. And according to their calculations, we are entering one of those filaments in the next 30 years. Jesus. And that's why we need to pay attention to this because 30 years is enough time to do something about it. If we apply the resources of our civilization to this,

we can solve this problem. Let's look at a couple more pictures because I'd like to get the picture of Graham. People are too busy making new phones. They don't have time to fix the asteroid thing. Exactly. We need a phone that projects images and holograms. That's my contention that it's going to take a little nudge.

Again, the serious commercial talk of mining asteroids, that is the way into this. If they can see an economic return for them in it, then maybe they'll do the good thing actually for the human race. Would this have to be a manned expedition like Bruce Willis in that asteroid movie? Not necessarily. Okay. What's the image that we want to show? Well, Jamie, why don't you go to the folder of the one we opened.

Folder of awesomeness. The folder of awesomeness. Yeah, just let's start with 1007. What are we going to look at here? Well, we're going to look at some NASA stuff. Oh, cool. And then we'll look at a couple of Google Earth things, and then we will look at a couple of U.S. Geological Survey things,

and then we'll look at some photographs. Five minutes worth. Okay, let's do it. What do we got? Whoa. Holy shit. This is one of the early NASA photographs taken from 500 miles up back in the late 70s, actually. And what we got here is the two big scab land tracts that show two of the big meltwater streams that have left their scars in the landscape.

So each one of those varies roughly between 10 and 20 miles wide, and the bigger one on the right is probably 50 to 60 miles long, or actually a little bit longer than that. But you can actually see that when the water swept down from the north out of British Columbia, it washed away 200 feet, roughly, one to 200 feet of the existing topsoil it had covered the basalt bedrock right basalt bedrock by the way that was originally formed by uh eruptions of the yellow stone caldera interestingly but so the water came down swept away the the um the topsoil and left the bare dark basalt exposed down below. The feature that we just looked at is not even really in this NASA photograph.

It's over to the west. But let's go ahead to the next one, Jamie. That's the Snake River down there, which is, where's the Snake River? Snake River comes up out of Idaho and it joins the Columbia and then flows out to the Pacific Ocean. All right, then we've got a Google Earth image coming up. What number? Oh, okay.

It's all in order because there's a lot in here. Oh, okay. Tell me which number you want me to pull up. It'll be 1,008, 1-0-0-8, the next one. What's going on with our TV? It keeps going off and on. That TV is not really made for the way we use it so it doesn't like the inputs and i just turned it off so i could pull up the next one okay there we go so now we're getting actually

a bigger view of of the landscape and you can see the two melt water that's a scab land tracks coming here and here okay and then you have what's called no one can hear you if you do this just just tell me where it is i get it okay so there's the two scab land tracks right then you've got the uh grand coulee which is that dark ribbon going up to Columbia River there. Grand Coulee Dam is right almost, you almost had it. It's where the Columbia River suddenly gets skinny. Right there, that's Grand Coulee Dam. That's the widest, the most massive concrete dam in North America.

And it's impounding water in Franklin Delano Roosevelt Lake to about 400 feet deep. Now, all of the area at the top, the green mountainous area, this was all covered in ice. And then over to the left, right there, you have that brown area. And do you see the kind of semicircular arc of dark ground right there? Yes. That is where a tongue of the ice came out of Canada, and it stopped right there. And when it receded, when it melted back, what it did was it left all this rubble that can't really be farmed effectively. It's called till, glacial till. And where the glacier ended, that's called moraine.

Moraine, and you can see it's circular where the glacier came. And then coming right off the snout of the glacier, do you see kind of a ribbony? That's a giant scar in the landscape that was formed by a meltwater stream coming off of that ice sheet. It's called Moses Coulee. Hey, Randall, I think we should keep in mind a lot of the audience aren't actually seeing the visuals on this. They're not. I mean the take away is that all across the Pacific Northwest is a landscape that has been utterly scarred and devastated by gigantic flood that took place 12,000 years ago. It's left its marks everywhere. And this is right near Coeur d'Alene so Coeur d'Alene is from

that that's the residue of this. You see Coeur d'Alene right there. If people go to the Geocosmic Rec's website or the Sacred Geometry International website, they can see most of the images that we're showing here. Well, they'll see it if they watch the YouTube video. They can watch it and hear you talk about it at the same time. It's just the vast majority, probably 90% of our people just listen. Are not seeing the visuals right now. But they can.

And so they probably will. So they can go to that and watch it. You can look down. Way down on the lower left is the potholes cataract right go up a little up along the river come down south south keep coming keep coming stop look to the right of the river that's what we were just this man knows his landscapes no to the right to the right to the right Jamie Jamie how dare you yeah this this whole area so we get it this whole every area has been

absolutely unequivocally right undeniably you see this Joe and you realize the scale of what we just looked at and now you're seeing that within this whole landscape yeah that was essentially inundated mm you'll start to get the scale of the thing. And that's what I'm trying to do here. If you, Joe, can get the scale of this in your mind, I've accomplished something today. Yeah, I think I got it from that one image. That was a real mind-blower.

The ripples? Yeah, the ripples. Ripples, yeah. Well, the ripples were a real mind-blower, and then the other one with the farmland, and then this massive channel cut into it. You kind of get it. Yeah, the ripples aren't even on this image they're they're way to the east has anybody sat down with you and tried to dispute this i mean the people that believe that this was a slow and gradual effect has anybody sat down and tried to debate you on this no this seems like

something that would be really interesting to debate i I mean, I would love to see someone who's a geologist that, you know, I'm sure there's someone out there that is listening to this that may have a dispute with it. You bet there is. I'm sure. But I would love to see them talk to you about it and go over all the various things. The nuclear glass that they find. I mean, all of it. All the top to bottom. it all the right here's the thing Joe at this point nobody is connecting the work of the of the comet

research group with the Missoula flood effects that we're looking at or so except us yeah that's crazy most people are like that's crazy how's it possible because it's the missing link it's it's such an obvious it's such an obvious connection and it really merits exploration here's's what scares the shit out of me. What if you guys didn't exist? What if you guys were never born? What if you never wrote that book? What if you've never been freaking out about this shit your whole life?

How would I know about this? How many times in the human story has this happened where stuff has just not been explored that really needed to be? That sounds crazy to something like a Michael Shermer, to a skeptical person. Well, I'd say to Michael Shermer, come on, man, let's go spend a week out in that landscape. Well, he does want to debate you. He wants to sit down and debate you, Graham. All right. Can we set that up?

We can set that up. I would love it. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like fun. Yes. It would be a good time. Yeah.

Well, in my mind, there's really no arguing with this evidence. I mean, it's too overwhelming. And the question really comes down to, at this point, nobody disputes that there were catastrophic floods. The question is, what was the mechanism? How many were there? How long did it take? Was it a bunch of catastrophic but smaller floods? Or was it back to Bretz's original model of one giant flood? And I think the truth actually lies somewhere between the two. And again, the geology gets complicated, but I'm writing it up. So I will explain in detail what my thoughts are.

And after having crisscrossed thousands of miles of this landscape repeatedly and basically absorbed every piece of scientific literature ever written on it I've evolved some ideas about what could have happened here, and how it happened well I was a grown adult and I found out that North America most of it was by You know what was it ten twelve thousand years ago was covered by a mile-high sheet of ice I wish yes, but I was a grown adult, and I went, what? North America, roughly north of Minneapolis. Yeah. And that's common knowledge, right? I mean, everybody knew that.

Anybody who's actually studied the history of it. But it never made it to my dopey head until I was a grown adult. And then I went, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. What? And the idea in my mind that this whole thing was covered just 12,000 years ago, that seems so incredibly recent. And by the way, that ice was more like two miles deep. Consider the weight of those ice masses pressing down.

I mean, anything that was there before the ice came down would have been ground to powder. And then as the ice cataclysmically melts, everything below it is washed away forever. It's like an eraser for the world. That's exactly, that's a great phrase, an eraser for the world. And that is the thing that so many of the skeptics haven't factored into their thinking when they're going, well, where's the evidence? The evidence, as you've got to understand, is that we have to rethink the possibility of evidence once we know that there has been these erasers of the world that have transpired.

And not just once but i mean what we're looking at here is probably the most severe events in the last five million years and i have a reason for using that number five million what's the reason well the reason is is based upon the the the severity of the mass extinction we have to go back five million years to find an extinction event of an equivalent level as what occurred at the Younger Dryas. It's funny because what I would call a knee-jerk skeptical person would always say that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Is there anything more extraordinary than that image of those farmlands and that giant swath cut into the land that's a mile across? That is the extraordinary evidence.

That is it, yes. That's pretty extraordinary. And then the core samples, the core samples that show this massive fluctuation of temperature. Yeah, that we've looked at in pre, yeah. That coincides with the melting of the ice. That coincides, yes.

Yes, it's all, it obviously all leads, even to someone like me, it leads to an event. And this cataclysmic episode immediately precedes the time when we've been told that civilization began Yeah, that's the other point which is really important. We have this huge punctuation mark and then civilization Suddenly starts to evolve no it was there before This is a reinvention those hunter-gatherers like those people that you would watch in one of those shows where they survive in Alaska You watch those shows yes, those shows shows are great. Like Life Below Zero, those crazy assholes.

Those people would make it. Those people would make it and they would breed and they would carry on. Yeah. What does that say? 1012. Oh, you can just say it. Next image. No, I don't want to interrupt you, Joe. No worries. No worries. Look at this. Wow. Okay, so that to me,

I'm looking at this after what you've told me. That looks like water that has sort of receded and left these lines in the silt side. Yeah, exactly. Think of a bathtub ring. After, Joe, you get in there and you take a bath, and the water is basically brown with sediment. What kind of fucking baths are you taking? And as it declines away, it leaves bathtub rings. You leave sediment in your tub? And you're quoting Genesis, and the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth, and

all the high hills were covered. Wow. Not because I'm trying to pump the biblical flood model. I'm far from it. What I am trying to do is throw out pictures whenever I realize here's a great quote, and it doesn't matter where it's from because there's so many flood legends you can quote from. Well, the biblical flood model is one of those myths,

is one of those traditions that have come down, one of thousands of traditions that speak of this. The whole ancestral memory of the human race is telling us that something terrible happened. It's also very unfortunate that that's all connected with an ideology that a lot of people find problematic, like that there's these issues with that being, you know, religion or a cult or this faith-based belief system.

We must immediately realize the flood is not the property of the monotheistic religions. The flood is found in every culture on earth. Also in that a lot of these stories, you're talking about massive translations from ancient Hebrew to Latin to Greek, and a lot is lost in the process. And you're dealing with a lot of these stories were handed down from generation to generation for like, what was it, like a thousand years before the first version was ever written? Absolutely, absolutely.

So all that's, I mean, that is unbelievably fascinating. Go to 1014, 1014, and we'll see a topographic map. Ah, yeah. Whoa. Now that you know, it's crazy. It looks like something just, like you had a sandcastle or some flat sand set up and a wave came in and cut through it and then pulled back. The wave came from the north and it swept down over the landscape and basically

carved and plucked and quarried and gouged and gashed that landscape and this is one of the places graham and i went if you look right in there you'll see where it says grand part of grand coulee g-r-a-n-d right there where the d is we have a great video clip online of me and Graham. We're looking at this actual topo map right here and then surveying the cataract around us. You'll also notice that there's a rock blade, just like similar to the one that we just saw in the drone footage. See the rock blade? And you recognize the alcoves now?

Yeah. And if we go to the next one, we have a google earth image of 1015 of this feature and there's the google earth image and for scale in the upper left hand i've superimposed niagara falls at the same scale so you can see by comparison wow have you seen been to niagara falls at the same scale so you can see by comparison wow have you seen been to niagara falls joe i did i went when i was a little kid but i honestly don't remember i think i went when i was a little kid i'll have to check with my mom it's impressive to see it but the point here is that anybody looking at this and you know if the folks look at the um the imagery on the online is that one of the biggest waterfalls in the world?

What, Niagara? Yeah. Not in terms of volume. No, what is the biggest? Nor in terms of the highest. African or something? Yeah, or South American, maybe Victoria Falls. It depends, you know, the highest or the greatest volume.

It's about 200,000, between 150 and 200,000 cubic feet per second going over those falls, depending on the flow of the river. But the flow that came through here was about 350 million cubic feet per second uh going over those falls depending on the flow of the river but the the flow that came through here was about 350 million cubic feet per second and left this and uh yeah if you go online on the geocosmic wrecks website there's a video clip of me and graham down there just just uh by perch lake may i ask you a question here yeah now if the water that was creating grand canyon or the niagara falls rather right up there if that all receded and we could see the bottom wouldn't it look similar to what you're seeing here the one of grand canyon no

excuse me niagara falls right there right above it right there yes it would but on a smaller scale on a smaller scale but like on a smaller scale like some of the smaller features that you see right there, right? Yeah, and that's the thing. You were saying earlier, it's fractal. The interesting thing about water erosion and sedimentation is it's scale invariant. So you can look at features, and coming up in the pictures here, I've got a beautiful example of scale invariance, where you see the small version and the large version, and it's exactly the same thing.

That's why if you go into any geology text, they've always got something in the photographs like a rock pick or a person standing there. Otherwise, it's hard to get a sense of the scale of what you're looking at, right? So my question, though, was that if that's the case, if you could drain Niagara Falls and it would have a similar feature set

to what you're seeing on the ground there. Well, we know that Niagara Falls has been doing that for a long, long time. 12,000 years of work of the river at Niagara Falls. Right. Here you're looking at a moment in time that unfolded in a few weeks. Right, but how do we know that? Well, for one thing, the scale of it. Because in other words, how long would it take Niagara to carve something on this scale?

If it's taken Niagara 10,000 years, say, to carve that, how long would it take an equivalent flow to carve this? But it goes more- What would Niagara look like if you drained it, though? What would it look like equivalent to any of these things you see right here? Well, for one thing, it's not basalt bedrock, so you're not going to see quite the same type of erosion, because really what you've got to consider is that all different rock types erode differently. Also, you know, what happens is you have regimes of flow so that what you have in Niagara today is a lower flow regime,

which doesn't have anywhere near the type of turbulence or erosive potential is when you get water moving at 50 or 60 miles an hour one reason we definitely can know that this is the case is because we see the association with the giant current ripples we see the boulders that have been plucked and quarried and some of them are 40 and 50 feet in diameter you see and we'll look at some of those uh coming up in the next next picture do you have that image that you were talking about before of that one gigantic boulder that was carried on? Yes, it's coming up. Okay.

If we move quickly through here, we'll get to it. So go to 1017, and that will be from the ground view, again, with Niagara Falls superimposed for scale. The Horseshoe Falls, the Canadian Falls, superimposed for scale. The Horseshoe Falls, the Canadian Falls, superimposed for scale. Now, basically, that cataract at Horseshoe Falls is about 120 feet in height. The cliff wall of this giant cataract is about 400 feet high.

And then you see the beginning of the blade rock out there, and the full extent of the thing actually goes all the way to the horizon. But we can't see that beyond there. But this erosion goes all the way to the horizon. And that cut into stone. That cut into basalt, hard columnar basalt. God.

That was extruded basically with the eruption of the Yellowstone Caldera. Wow. 15 million years ago basically but then covered up by a couple hundred feet of lost topsoil and then that was exposed when the floods came through go to the next 1018 and you'll see an example of some of the debris that was left behind by the floodwaters when they finally ceased. There's the stuff that you're looking at. Now, the bigger stuff there is 30 and 40 feet.

Those would be like four-story buildings down there. So those are just washed away by this gigantic river. Yeah, that's just this, right, this massive gigantic river moving 50, 60 miles an hour, sweeps through there, plucks and tears the bedrock. And then when the spigots finally get turned off, the water starts subsiding and this stuff that's being carried in there just gets left in the wake, just like you're going to see any modern smaller flood is going to leave material in its wake. The difference is this material is piles of boulders the size of houses, gravel bars two and three hundred feet thick and three miles long.

And they're all in a... See, the answer to your question is, and this is how Bretz finally did it, was by showing that it was the full suite of evidence taken integrally that created a picture that was undeniable to the skeptics. It was overwhelming, because it was every piece

fit together too perfectly to and there was no other explanation other than gigantic hydraulic events. And now it's a question of the detail. What caused them? How long did it take? And, you know, that's where the controversy is now. This is amazing. It's amazing and terrifying. But what's cool about it is it's terrifying, but everything's okay right now. Everything's okay right now. Right now. So it's like you feel like, ah, I'll be fine. But maybe not if something like this happens again.

Well, you have to ask, what could be the change in the human orientation to life on this planet? Like, for example, I remember the first Earth Day, 1970, right? When this consciousness about, hey, you know what? Our existence on this planet is having an effect on this planet, right? And at that point, you see this whole environmental consciousness emerge that didn't exist before that, right? Well, I think maybe in the next decade or two, we're going to see a new environmental consciousness

that involves the recognition that this planet we live on is a very dynamic place and has been so and is the key to deciphering a lot of mysteries, geological, cultural, historical, and paleontological, biological, etc. That this has been a dominant factor in the evolution of basically everything that's been going on on this planet, whether you're looking at millions of years or thousands of years. It's such a strange time to be alive where all this stuff is coming together. All this information is being exposed.

coming together. All this information is being exposed and waking up. As though a hidden archive has been broken open and the stuff is spilling out and you don't know whether you've opened Pandora's box by letting it out. And it's all logical. It's all logical.

It's so easy to follow. It's all, I mean, it seems like when it comes to like a step-by-step. 1-0-2-9. 1-0-2-9. Coming up. 1-0-2-9 when I feel like I'm a bingo guy now this we're going to travel about 500 miles south out onto the Utah canyon it's beautiful and what you're seeing there is basically dry cataracts now that you've seen these cataracts you can begin to recognize them all over the place. Now, this has not been acknowledged as being a cataract,

but what you actually see when you look at the modern erosion is that these features are being slowly eroded and eaten away by the modern erosion. And it's a different erosional regime altogether that creates features like this. And this is a vast scale of erosion here. And when you travel over the southwest, that is the most striking thing that you're going to experience if you're empathic with the landscape, which is that there's been this enormous amount of erosion. Now, I'm not saying that this enormous amount of erosion

was all created by one flood, but I think what it is possibly saying is that when we go back over several million years, gigantic floods on this scale aren't that exceptional, that there's something that from time to time, and see, here's the thing, this is completely removed from the glaciers. Any water that would have eroded this landscape was not coming from the glaciers. It had to have been coming from rainfall. If you go to the next slide, Jamie, 1,030. Which is not a disconnected element

because of the massive rainout that resulted from the impacts on the ice cap. What's this? This is Valles Calderas. This is the largest volcanic caldera in North America. It's 11 miles across. And here's what's it. it was born out of a catastrophe millions of years ago, right? And then subsequent eruptions over hundreds of thousands of years have left this

feature. But what's interesting to us here is what happened around 12,000 years ago, the entire caldera filled up suddenly. And if you look at right about if you look at it as a clock at about eight o'clock you can see a breach a valley coming off you see that yeah jamie can you yeah right there that was the spillover so at the same time now get this at the same window of time that this these flood events are happening up in Washington and Idaho and Montana, this caldera suddenly fills up with water, and the water spills over the rim and cuts a canyon hundreds of feet deep. Now, what could cause that to suddenly fill up with water?

And it's completely removed. It's not receiving glacial meltwater. There's only one thing by default, and that would be rainfall, a lot of rainfall falling over days and days at a time. So if you go to the next slide, we'll see what sits down in the bottom of this valley is thousands of these gigantic rolled boulders. And you know that they're water transported because they're round. They're rolled. That's what water does. It rolls these things. Now, this is in New Mexico, see? So this is related to the spillway, the overflow of Wallace Caldera, which has been dated to that

same interval when the floods were happening up north, the same interval that now the comet is dating to. Is this coincidence or are the two related? I would say it would be very premature to dismiss it and say that they're not related. Because as Graham just said, one of the consequences of an impact, whether it's into the ocean or the ice sheet, is you're going to have extreme amounts of water vapor injected catastrophically into the atmosphere, which is then going to rain out in incredible torrential downpours that might last for days at a time. And along with that water vapor is a tremendous amount of particulate mass. And it's that rain out that I would say caused the erosion on the Sphinx and tells us that the Sphinx is 12,000 years old,

not 2,500 B.C. Exactly. You guys are freaking me out this is amazing this is the most convincing argument yet that you guys have ever made for this well it's all it's all been convincing but this is uh this is more compelling and and then all the pieces that come together yeah next slide jamie which would be 1032 which is to, a beautiful example of scale and variance. Oh, wow. Here we have the modern Snake River flowing in the modern channel. And then we have the ancient flood channel, which you can see there, the average annual discharge of the snake, 56,900 cubic feet. But the estimated flood that created the big channel is 40 million

cubic feet and now this flood actually was coming up get this out of utah it was coming up it was part of the giant lake bonneville of which the great salt lake is but a diminutive remnant so the bonneville salt flats the bonneville Flats were the bottom of this gigantic lake that filled the basins of northeastern Utah. And at the end of the last ice age, it suddenly filled up very rapidly and spilled over a mountain pass to the north and then flooded the Snake River Plain of southern Idaho. And anybody can see the Snake River Plain if you go to Google Earth or any topographic map.

And it cut channels like this that ultimately led to the Columbia River. But interestingly, the dating of this puts it, again, right in that window. That window of 12,800 to 11,600 years ago when everything changes. Yes, everything changes. And so what I'm showing you is just a little bit selecting random almost dots to show you that no matter where you look, you're going to see evidence of these events imprinted into the landscape. Yeah, go to the next slide, 1033. And if you go down and you stand on that flood plain down there you'll see the kind of

stuff that got left behind this is the sediment load being carried in the flood wow so you got what kind of powerful currents are necessary to transport and i'm standing in the canyon that was cut by the flood those walls are 400 feet high So what we would think of as being like little pebbles at the bottom of a stream that gets moved around in this grand scale. This is like sand grains on the bottom of a modern little creek or river. Except they're humongous boulders.

Yes. And this is what a geologist or geomorphologist would call the bed load, the stuff being swept along in the floodwaters, being rolled and tumbled. And geologists recognize this, but they think it took, mainstream geologists think it took a long period of time. No, I mean, the few geological papers that have been written on this admit that it was

one big catastrophic flood. Wow. And what is their explanation for that catastrophic flood? Well, that somehow Lake Bonneville rose up and breached a pass on its northern rim. Is that possible in any way? Well yeah. If you have enough rainfall prolonged over a period of time, days or weeks, that the whole body of water could have raised by 300 feet roughly.

But again you would need something like the comet impact to provide you with a source for that rainfall right because otherwise there's no other explanation for that kind of that kind of rainfall and it's known from the modeling of oceanic impacts that yes there would be unbelievable rain out in the aftermath of an oceanic impact and clearly the same thing would would follow in the wake of a of an ice impact what oceanic impacts do we have on record? Only a few of them. There's one up by Sweden. We were discussing also the possible Indian Ocean impact.

Possibly one in the Indian Ocean. 5,000 years ago which creates tsunamis on both sides of the Indian Ocean dated to about massive, massive tsunami deposits. And again, this whole argument of the Younger Dryas cataclysm between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago, the strongest case is the focus of the science has been on 12,800 years ago,

but there's a lot of interest in the 11,600 years ago as well. And the strongest suggestion of what caused that, that sudden rise in temperatures accompanied by meltwater pulse 1b, was a second encounter with more fragments of the debris of the comet. This time, the impact's not being on the North American ice cap, but in a major ocean, probably the Pacific. And that then puts a huge plume of water vapor into the upper atmosphere and shrouds the Earth

and creates the greenhouse effect that accounts for the radical rise in temperature that occurred 11,600 years ago. More science needs to be done on that. It's another reason why I want to see the Comet Research Group funded, because this is important work. God damn, this is an awesome podcast.

This might be my all-time favorite. Whew. Okay. This is important work. God damn, this is an awesome podcast. This might be my all-time favorite. Okay, we'll look at about half a dozen more. Yeah, for sure. Let's roll. Okay, 1,039. And here now you'll be able to see actually a person in the field of view next to a giant current ripple. And that's a giant current ripple field uh there's a giant that's a giant current ripple field we did see this one graham this is the west bar um very cool yes if you go back one slide

we can see an aerial photo i took years ago of west bar it's three miles long there it is whoa and there's an airport down the lighter colored buffs of is a landing strip. And the airport building there is three stories tall. So this whole feature is three miles long. And the ripples here are on the same scale as the Camas Prairie ripples that we just looked at. Of course, this is in central Washington. The other one was in Montana. So again, as we begin to place these event nodes around on the map, we can begin to see the outlines of a really, really huge event. And all of this is going on at the same time, you've got to understand.

All this is dated to the same time. All this is dated to the same time that you think the impact took place. And it's all over that coast. The only dates that we have that are hard dates are of volcanic ash, primarily, from Mount St. Helens, that date at 13,000 years. But they use that as a baseline and then assume that there was multiple floods, and each flood was separated by 50 to 100 years. multiple floods and each flood was separated by 50 to 100 years and what they've done is they've gone from brett's original model of a single flood into a dozen floods into 40 floods and now up to 80 or 90 floods which i disagree with but on the other hand there were see i think you have to understand this in two phases because the impact phase is going to melt a whole lot of ice all of a sudden but it's not

going to melt all of it it's going to leave a huge amount of residual ice in the aftermath now what we see is that particularly after the 11 600 year ago event at that point the whole planet comes right out of the ice age inexplicably that's the end of the ice that's the end of the ice age the beginning of the holocene it's over and and basically what we're seeing there is that there is a great deal of of heat suddenly that's brought the planet out of the ice it does not convert revert back into the ice age like it did at the 12 900 event see so what we then have is that in the aftermath of this event, the whole climate of the earth has been completely altered. The whole balance of nature has been completely altered from before these events to after these events. But what you have now is a lot of residual ice

that takes about two or three thousand years to melt away. So sea levels continue to rise. Sea levels continue to rise and the melting of this ice produces some pretty big floods. But not on the scale of what we're looking at here. And I think it's my personal opinion that there's a confusion between the two different flood regimes. And I'm going to document all that. I'm writing all this up in detail as a thesis to explain my interpretation of the phenomenon over 20 years. But let's go to— That would be so important.

I would love to see people really go over this with a fine-tooth comb because it's so compelling. It's just so amazing. Like, just this image itself is just wow. What kind of power and force would it take to create those ripples, those 50-foot-high ripples all over the place, miles and miles and miles of them? Yeah, and, you see, nothing since that event has really affected them. They're still sitting there as these gigantic, monstrous fossil features in the landscape. Now, when they do core samples on that stuff, what do they find out, like, as far as the dating of it?

Like, if they get to the bottom of one of those ripples? Well, you've got to find... You've got to be able to find organic material in there. And to the extent that there's organic material, it basically all dates from the end of the Ice Age. The problem is, is when you have a flood like this coming through, it's sweeping up everything in its path, including forests and animals.

So if you've got a bone in there or a piece of wood, that doesn't necessarily mean when the flood happened. Right. It's not a nice layer of sediment. It's a jumbled, messed up picture. Chaotic mess. It's not like you could just go dig into the side of that hill at that same level and find something that's organic and absolutely dated to that, because that's all stone.

Right, right. It's boulders. If you saw a cross-section of one of those ripples, it's just a jumbled, chaotic mess of everything, from finest sand and silt up to boulders the size of cars and even houses. Wow. Stuff just, yeah. That's so crazy.

Go to 1041, and we'll see an interesting artist rendition by Edward Riau, who did all the illustrations for the original Jules Verne books. And he did a version for a geology text. What was it? The guy's name is skipping me right now. But I thought it was an interesting image because it basically shows an event on the scale of what we're talking about. And what's interesting here is you see that the torrents are carrying icebergs and in this one iceberg in the foreground, I call it Graham's Rock from now on. It's going to be, I have officially named it Graham's Rock.

Because it's carrying a gigantic boulder. Yeah, when Grant and I were talking about it, now it's Graham's Rock. Yeah, because I went and climbed that one. It's no longer the Wenatchee Erratic. Right, right, right. It's the Graham Erratic. Oh, I'm on it, Robert. Thank you.

Okay, so we got the Graham Erratic coming up in about three images. So let's go to the next one, 1042. And this is basically another key piece of evidence. It's strewn for thousands of square miles throughout the path of the flood, you have these gigantic boulders. And these are being carried aboard icebergs. So let me describe what we're looking at right now because there's a person. Is that you there? I took the picture, so it's two of my fellow travelers.

Okay, normal-sized people and, you know, whatever, six feet and and bounce them on top of each other 12 18 you're looking at probably at least 35 40 feet tall right yeah yeah and yeah and wider wider than it is tall oh yeah 60 feet wide that's insane and that was carried by water it was carried it was carried on icebergs yeah in the water oh my god so this This flood is not just water. It's huge. Thousands of icebergs. It's forest strips up by their roots. It's a jumbling mass of

powerful erosive flow. Amazing. Thousands of megafauna are undoubted. In fact, a lot of... There have been a lot of mammoth remains found in Missoula flood sediments particularly in the Willamette Valley okay let's go to the next image there we go this is like like out in the middle of the Prairie again you got thousands of these things I'll tell you what I'm a chicken I

wouldn't stand right there I think that thing's gonna roll on top of you that would be a rap son yeah this is known as Jaeger Rock. That thing's huge. Is that you underneath there? No, that's one of my... I took the picture. Did you tell them to stand there? Yeah, I said stand there, and then I had the other guys go around the back rock. I'd push on it. This thing is kind of

hanging off the side of that hill the way some of those Hollywood Hills houses are. The ones that are on stilts. See that rounded mass of stuff that it's sitting in is called a berg mound. And you see, these icebergs are not clean ice. They're dirty. They're filled with gravel and debris. So when a berg that's being carried in the flood and the floodwaters subside,

the bergs get stranded in the land. They then melt. And if there's no boulder, there's just a mound. If there's no gigantic boulder, there's just a mound. If there's no gigantic boulder, there's just a mound. But if there is a gigantic boulder being carried aboard the iceberg, it will be sitting in a berg mound like you see right here. That's amazing. So that white line that we see is where the iceberg was when it deposited that thing and then it just melted from there? No, that's actually a bedding plane between two different kinds of basalt

okay so the mound itself below it is what you're saying is the berg mound that's the berg mound and the boulder the big boulder was the cargo sitting on top of the iceberg oh okay so the berg is not just water it's water with a bunch of dirt and all kinds of other in it as well yeah and so when it melts that's what it leaves, that's what it leaves behind. That's what it leaves behind. Yeah. Ah, I see. That's amazing. Okay. In the next image, we have the Hancock Erratic. Is that you up there?

Well, that's me on top of that 18,000-ton boulder. Weren't you breaking the law? Yeah, I was. I do that from time to time. But it's an amazing experience to stand there and to think what transported this. Well, we know it was transported in an iceberg, and it was dumped there on the side of that valley. And it's just the thought of thousands of these things plowing along at 60 or 70 miles an hour, carried on a gigantic flood. How do we have anything left, you know? No wonder. No wonder we've forgotten our past.

And see, and here's the thing. I mean mean what we're doing here is we're looking where these flood events are preserved the most spectacularly and the reason is is because you had a very steep gradient from the ice sheet elevation to the pacific ocean but like graham and i when we traveled across we traveled across the continental divide and traveled from the rocky Mountains to the Twin Cities, which is on the Mississippi River. And all the way across, we were crossing huge meltwater coolies. We crossed the Missouri River Valley, which is an underfit stream, just very similar to the Snake, where the modern Missouri is just a little ribbon of river occupying this massive meltwater channel, of which there are hundreds across the plains.

this massive meltwater channel of which there are hundreds across the plains. And then when we got to Minneapolis, we went up and we visited some of the largest known potholes. Amazing potholes, which, again, you're looking on the scale of giants. This is beyond imagination what you look at. And only the flood explanation makes sense of it. Go to 1054, Jamie. And you'll see. Whoa. There we go.

I'm down inside the pothole, one of the potholes, looking up at Graham. So that's a pothole carved into stone by whirlpools. By this. Yeah. It's got rocks in them, and the rocks are the erosive agent that's cutting out the pothole. Just think of like a massive hydraulic drill. Wow. Just picking up coarse rock and then just drilling, literally drilling holes 50, 60, 80 feet deep into the rock.

Go to the YouTube, please, if you're listening to this. Just go. You've got to fast forward to this. This is insane. This image is insane just thinking of watching rocks spin around drilling into the ground and you're talking about over a short period of time oh yeah probably you know i'm guessing you know these giant meltwater floods this is right along the saint croix river which forms the border between minnesota and wisconsin

it was probably of several weeks duration at its peak. And so the drilling of these bedrock probably was accomplished within that time span. What I wouldn't give to know what that was like, just to see it. Well, you'd have had to been in orbit to survive it. Right, yeah, even if you're flying over in a plane, probably just the atmospheric change. Listen, on top of these flood sediments, I've documented it from Ohio to Washington State, there are thick layers of LUS. Now, LUS is this strange topsoil that came down, and they've been arguing for generations, is it wind deposited or water deposited? But the curious thing is it seems to be both wind and water deposited.

But I think the obvious explanation for it is that when you see the top layers of the flood sediments, particularly in the back flood regions where the water was calmer rather than so torrential, you see these layers these beautiful they're called rhythmites they're very rhythmical on top of that is a layer of this lust topsoil with this vertical structure right well the to me and again without getting into the technical background i think the logical explanation and most likely explanation is that at the tail end of the final flood flows, what you're seeing is a rainfall of mud.

And this rainfall of mud came down in effect- Which many ancient traditions speak of. Yes. Black bituminous rain, mud falling from the sky, darkness, a time of darkness. It's all described in the myths. Myths are the memory banks of humanity. We should not call them myths. We should call them memories. Yeah, exactly.

And again, this muddy rainfall perfectly fits the whole narrative. And again, with the mythology, it's right there. When we think of the idea of these tsunamis, we think of water that you can see. But we're most likely dealing with the entire air around you filled with torrential downpour and solid matter and everything's flying through the air. A slurry. Incredible winds. Incredible winds, yes. So it's both wind and water and just full on chaos, super hurricanes.

It's nature gone chaotic and crazy on ultimate steroids. Wow. This is so wild. And it's real. That's the thing. And it happened while people were alive. Oh yeah, it happened while people were alive. Absolutely. This is not some dinosaur thing.

No, it happened a blink of an eye ago. It happened when anatomically modern humans had already been around for 200,000 years. Writing. Well, no, not according to the orthodox historians. But if we're dealing with a lost civilization, which I believe to be the case, then yes. It totally makes sense. Completely, totally makes sense. Yeah.

And it's time to get to grips with this. It's time to move forward to the next level and start recovering our memory. Yeah. And also start recognizing that this is a potential reality. Yeah. This is not just the past past this is also very possible yeah and and and again if I may say so crowdfunding it's the opportunity for the people to give their voice show good can you show that page this is the the crowdfunding page for the comet research

group and it's on in the link is on grahamhancock.com. There it is. So if you go to grahamhancock.com and click on the Comet Research Group banner, then you'll get taken immediately to the crowdfunding page. Please support it. Whatever you can give, it'll make all the difference. It sends a message that we care about alternative heretical research. And also, while you're at my website, I've put up there a lot of other follow-ups to this podcast. If people want to go places, I'm talking in America in the next weeks. Yes.

And links and connections, a lot of stuff related to this podcast is up on my site. I'd like to plug my DVD that has a lot of these images on it. Okay. And it's about five hours of stuff, Blu-ray. And if they go to the website, Sacred Geometry International. Do you have that available as a download? It's going to be if it's not already. Yeah.

I think it is available for a download. My laptop doesn't even, I don't know. Nobody does anymore. The answer is yes. Okay. If it's not now, it will be. I think it is actually now available for download. Yeah, it's going to get it on iTunes or Amazon or something. And it's hours of stuff, but. Yeah, just kind of get it on iTunes or Amazon or something. Yeah, yeah.

And it's hours of stuff, but I get into a lot of other stuff. Some of the interesting sidelines, the archaeoastronomy and the sacred geometry and so forth that might be associated with ancient cultures. And what's the name of this again? Cosmic Patterns and Cycles of Catastrophe. Beautiful. There it is. There it is.

Yeah, that's the older version. There it is. There it is. Yeah, that's the older version. This is the newer, upgraded version. All right. Yeah, there we go. There we go. Beautiful. And there's the Blu-ray.

Yeah, there's the Blu-ray, yeah. Okay, so an NHD download. Excellent. There it is, yeah. Gentlemen, this has been a long, long podcast of awesomeness. Man, this cemented in my head. I mean, the idea was already cemented in my head. This has been a long long podcast of awesomeness. Hey man this Cemented in my head. I mean the idea was already cemented in my head But these images along with your compelling narrative is cemented even further is amazing such a cool podcast and

Matters to entertain and scare the shit out of me at the same time. So thank you for that Graham it's Graham underscore Hancock on Twitter yeah Graham double underscore Hancock but yeah they made it really difficult to reach me on Twitter but it is there and then you know I've got my Facebook page and my website is the main portal Graham Hancock calm everything comes off there my book my events and and all kind of verified on Twitter so they know which one to follow you know I'm verified on Facebook but they haven't verified me on Twitter dare you to follow? You know, I'm verified on Facebook, but they haven't verified me on Twitter. How dare you, Twitter?

I'm over, you know, I got 100,000 followers there, but they haven't verified me. But I'm me. I am me, yeah. Randall, how much do you pay attention to social media at all? You have your guide doing most of it, right?

Yeah, from time to time, I'll immerse myself into it for a few days or as much as I can take, and then I got to back off for a while. Well, you're're gonna get a flood of questions about this one because this was awesome I mean really thank you so much I'm so so thankful and honored to know you guys because to me this is uh I mean the the ultimate thing for me on this podcast is to be able to have people on that are talking about things that I

find absolutely captivating and you guys I think what you're doing is so important. You're playing a huge role, Joe, in opening people's minds to unthinkable thoughts all around the world, stuff that people have been told they are not allowed to think about. Your show is opening doors that have never been opened before. Stumbled into it. I don't know how it happened. I would like to get you out in the field, Joe.

I would like to get out in the field, too. I would like to get you out in the field because there's nothing. I want to see that the field, too. I would like to get you out in the field because there's nothing. I want to see that stuff. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I want to go to Washington State. Let's do it. Let's set something up. We'll make a video.

I want to go there. I want to see that. Let's do it. That looks crazy. I'm serious. Young Jamie, you in? Jamie's in. All right.

Thank you so much, everybody. See you soon. See you soon. See you soon. See you soon. Thank you.