The Joe Rogan Experience - #898 - Bas Rutten & Mauro Ranallo

Episode Date: January 11, 2017

Bas Rutten & Mauro Ranallo are the former announcing team for Pride FC, and can now be heard together on their podcast "Rutten & Ranallo."

Tomorrow's a pecking and a poking over there. Oh, I'm ready. I'm ready. We're live. Mauro Ranao and the great Boss Rutten, the dynamic duo of pride fighting championships back in the day. Classic fights. You guys are attached to some of the greatest fights of all time. We are.

I used to tell him every time after a single fight, I'd say, because at the time it was six billion people. I go, hey, understand, two in six billion people just did the commentating for this show. Because we love that show. And I owe it all to this man, Mr. Rogan. Boss Rootin, in many ways, saved my life. Uh-oh. It's getting dark early. I thought we were going to go down a happy road, but nope.

Mauro Ranallo wants to immediately go down the boss route and save my life. No, no, no. Let's keep it positive because my two worlds collided on my very first event in Pride at Bushido 1, October 5, 2003. Pro wrestler, Dos Cotas Jr., remember the guy in the mask? And they had to actually cut out even bigger eye holes because he was fighting Mirko Krokop, the one. And can you imagine a commission in North America would never allow that? And yet, good old Alberto went in. Boom.

Did you see the recent one with Gary Garcia, the Rizin fight? Oh, it was scary. I just saw like a repeat thing, a little loop thing. She fought an old lady. A 52-year-old woman. I don't know if she was 52, but whatever she was, she was hobbled. She couldn't walk. Her knees were

totally wrapped up. She was limping from the moment she got in there. And then Gabby Garcia's towering over this old lady. I saw that. She just beats the shit out of her. I mean, it was just an assault. Remember Giant Silva taking a two-by-four into the pride ring against Takeshi Segura? Remember Big Giant Silva?

He took a two-by-four? To hit him with it? At the end of the angle, yeah. On a pride fighting championship event. Why did he do that? On a Pride Fighting Championship event. Why did he do that? It was, again, the marriage of pro wrestling and Pride in many ways, the larger-than-life storylines and production could lead to things like that.

And we saw it firsthand. The freak fights, if you will. It wasn't a part of the actual fight. The fight itself was there. But remember, Alistair used to bring the axe. There were pro wrestling-esque entrances, which a lot of people loved. Was this a part of his entrance?

This was after the fight. Yeah, this was after the fight. Remember Takeshi Segura and Giant Silva right there in the fight? And it was like, yeah, he had the 2x4 as a prop. Do you think it was just choreographed? It was a prop choreographed? I think it was maybe a part of the presentation and not something that, like you say, he wanted to assault someone with the two-by-four. Yeah, there was a few fights in the early days that you were like, oh, okay, that's a fixed fight, right?

There was a few. Oh, you know, listen. Do you remember? It was the funniest thing ever. Coleman was fighting Takata. Takata, yeah. And they told me he was going to get finished in six minutes by way of heel hook. So now the press comes to me and they tell me, what do you think is going to happen in this fight?

I said, oh, it's easy. Takata's going to win. Six minutes, heel hook. Oh, God. And everybody froze because this was before the fight. So they had to change their whole gimmick, what they were going to do. It went like to one and a half minute now. But I guess I spoiled it for him.

So they had it all planned out. Back to the future, pride result. They had it all planned out. You know, everything with Takata, I would say. Well, except Hickson, of course. Except for Hickson. Hickson mauled Takata. Yeah.

That was 100% real. But, you know, Takata came in our studio training at the Beverly Hills Jiu-Jitsu Club. We had white and blue belts tapping him. So it was not like this guy was. Well, he was just a big-time pro wrestler. And that is why they wanted to, again, that's, you know, you talk about how pride-fighting championships of Genesis it was, that, you know, bringing the biggest, the so-called toughest, best pro wrestler

against Hicks and Gracie, the mythic valetudo jiu-jitsu fighter. The UFC had a similar but more rational approach to it recently with CM Punk versus Mickey Gall. They said, well, let's give this CM Punk guy a kid with one fight, one amateur fight. I think he had at least one amateur fight and one fight in the UFC. Showed some promise, choked a guy out. And we said, okay, you're going to get a tough kid.

You're going to get a tough kid, but you're going to have to fight a real fighter. But, you know, you're not going to fight Hickson Gracie. Yeah. You know what I mean? It was just at that time, there was nobody had jiu-jitsu like Hickson. No. He was just so above and beyond anyone. Everything, yeah.

Unreal. Was he 400 and 0? No. That's a nice run number, I always say. They always, like, threw that out. Like, you've got to wonder who threw that out first. They did everyone such a disservice. Do it like 398.

That sounds way more believable than a perfect 400 and 0. What's crazy is when you see these Thai fighters who literally do have 200 fights and they're 20 years old. Like there's some kids that fight for Lion Fight. Yeah, and Siddharth Chai, Siddharth Pinnong, who's the lightweight champion now in Gloria. In fact, many years ago in Canada, doing Muay Thai on TSN, the ESPN equivalent up there. Same thing, when you brought in the Thai fighters, but they were, as you know, Joe. And there's a good documentary, Shameless Pug Showtime is going to be showing a documentary about fighting in Thailand and in Muay Thai where these kids literally that's how they survive right you started eight nine years old and yeah you're on your way to hopefully making enough to eat did you the new

documentary that are doing right now they there are people in jail like murderers they get a chance to fight themselves for a pardon oh my that's a new show it's gonna start in a in a week on Netflix. That may be the documentary as well on Showtime. What's his name? In the rat suit, the guy with the horn, with the horns cut off.

Famous actor. Hellboy? Yeah, Hellboy. That actor. He's also in that gang. God damn it. Oh, that's my brain lock. You see?

Yeah, me too. But he's narrating it. Jamie, you know who it is. The dude who's the star of Hellboy. I got the documentary. It's called Five Rounds to Freedom. Nice. Yeah, but it's narrated by him.

Pull up the page on it. Whatever it is, yeah. Oh, there you go. A boy talk. Freedom. Ron Perlman. Oh, Ron Perlman. Yes.

There you go. Wow, that's crazy. So what are their crimes that they're going to be absolved for? One guy, for what I understand, he stabbed somebody in the neck. And I go, you know, a petty crime. I go, okay, I can understand it, but a murderer? I don't look at this. The state-sponsored rehabilitation program

popular known as Prison Fight is not reserved for petty criminals. Under the law, violent criminals, including those convicted of murder Hold on a second. Our piece of shit. See, this is, including those convicted of murder. Hold on a second. Our piece of shit. See, this is the one I was talking about. Show time.

Including those convicted of murder and sexual assault have been freed and in some cases fully absolved of their crimes through their participation in prison fights. Well, that sounds crazy. Heirs on my birthday. That's even crazier. That's crazy that anybody would allow this. All you have to do if you're a violent criminal is prove that you're more violent than the other violent criminals and you get your freedom.

That's fucking insane. Yeah, I don't think there's a lesson to be learned for them. Says it results on one final fight. Yeah, can violent men redeem themselves through violent acts? That's ridiculous. Of course they can't. Well, they think probably applause and applause becomes a negative. Maybe they think that way.

Yeah, but what if someone did something to your sister or your daughter or your mom, and then they get out because they beat the fuck out of all the other rapists? I 100% agree. If you see the trailer, that's what the woman says. He stabbed his kid in the neck, killed the kid, and now this guy is going to fight for his life to get out of there. Yeah. Because he shouldn't be-

No. Shouldn't be legal. So back to the 400 no most likely not a real number in anybody's case somebody just made that up for you know propaganda purposes if they would have said over 400 or just below 400 you see about making it 400. i love that his son is super active now and i love that crrohn is fighting really top guys now. He fought Kawajiri in his last fight. He's a tough fucking guy.

That's a tough guy, yeah. Choked Kawajiri out. I always wondered what happened to Crossley Gracie. Remember when he had so much potential? He was so good. That's the thing. He seemed to be the first Gracie, to me, to take it to the next level. Become more well-rounded and well-versed.

And whoop, done. Well, I think Hodger showed really great promise until King Mo knocked him out. Right. And then that was a big knockout. You know, King Mo can crack. He's got some serious power. He's a tremendous athlete.

Student of striking as well. Huge boxing fan. I'll never forget that ground-and-pound KO that he had with Seth Pazinski. Yes. Oof. Oof. Scary guy to have on top of you.

Oh, my God, yeah. Throw the guard to the side and drop that right hand on you. Like, oh, my God. Oh. It's, well, Henderson, Dan Henderson, you talk about wrestlers with power. I mean, it's amazing how some were blessed at the time. I mean, remember, he just, Ninja, that was one shot.

And I told him to everybody, he is that guy that when he has a, you know, when he faces a great striker, and I tell him, just take him down. I mean, I saw him train with Mo Lawal, he took Mo down. I mean, Banjo is a freaking animal. Like in training, my focus mitts, my hands would hurt after I would hold him. And he would stand on one leg and hit. I have no clue how he generated that kind of force,

but he had so much power. And I said, dude, just take him down. Scott Smith, why would you even go with him? The guy's a striker. Just take him down, knock him out on the ground. And he didn't do it. Every time at the end of the round he did it, hit him one time, it was almost dazed,

and the belt went. And in the second round again, but the third round he lost. What a compelling career for Scott Smith too, right? He had headlining events on CBS, major network exposure. I remember what we called the Christmas miracle when he came back and knocked out Kung Lee. And, again, a guy who's, I think, back working, you know, hands of steel back in the factory. It's interesting how the sport in such a short period of time, of course, we've seen the explosion.

But what could have been even with Elite Xc and we saw what happened with kimbo but it's just interesting for me now as we reminisce about stuff how how so many organizations had opportunities and yet fell by the wayside for for one reason or another a lot of itself inflicted well elite xc was a really hard one to watch because it was bastardizing the sport. You were seeing they were standing people up. Do you remember when... I remember that 15 second rule was disastrous. But it was also, they were standing people up in dominant

positions. Like Roy Nelson and Arlovsky. You're right. Had him inside control, working for Kimura, and they stood him up. Whoa, that's crazy. But then you can understand why, though, with Kimbo Slice taking what was necessary

to bring, it was the first organization to make it to major network TV. And I think there were some decent fighters along the way as well. Were you a Kimbo fan at all in terms, I know you're pure martial arts and that's why I respect and sit here bowing down at the altar of the air

but did you like what Kimbo Slice represented at the time? I think Kimbo Slice was a tough guy and he was a fun guy to watch but the reality of what he represented as a mixed martial arts fighter at that time was he was fairly novice. He didn't really have a ground game and he really couldn't

stop a good wrestler from taking him down but he was a good puncher who was really good in those backyard brawls like in those environments you know like he was tougher than 99 of the guys out there and he would smash guys and he smashed a few guys in mma yeah and you know what i really respect about kimbo is that he went on the ultimate fighter and he gave a go of it i mean he really did that was a big thing yeah i mean he was already a huge youtube star at the time. So he went on with all these other unknown guys who were wrestlers and football players and

guys like Roy Nelson, and he handled it like a fucking man. Big target on his back. Big target on his back. Everybody knew he was the famous guy. I want to fight him. I want to fight him. Everybody wants to fight him. And the numbers were through the roof when he was on. Through the roof. And he was a great guy. He was always a super friendly real

real nice guy always cool with everybody you know but despite his appearances he looked like with the gold teeth and the crazy beard oh man we had so much fun with that guy really good guy yeah and yes exactly and that's why though it seems because i think there's the argument continues even now in the sport right what with With the rankings, right, Joe? How come Damian Maia's not getting the next shot at Tyron Woodley? Well, don't you think, though, in that fight that Woodley and Wonderboy have to rematch? Oh, 100%. It's a draw.

I agree 100%. But then I also think Dominic Cruz and Cody Garbrandt as much as what a masterpiece. But if you look at the backgrounds and what's happened in the past, I think Dominic Cruz also deserves a rematch. I don't agree with that. You don't? I don't agree with that because I don't think that was that close. I think Cody clearly won that fight. Oh, I agree.

But what he represents with the body of work that he's done in the... Sure. But T.J. Dillashaw first then. He was an amazing fighter. But T.J.'s been waiting for a long time. T.J. barely lost a fight with Dominic. It was a razor-close decision that could have gone either way.

And then he goes on to beat Rafael Sonsal, and I just feel like in his position now, and then he beat the Lineker fight, which is even more impressive. He shut Lineker down. Lineker's a damn destroyer. There's no exact science, I guess, is what I'm saying

in terms of how it comes to matchmaking and putting together championship fights and what do you market, the freak, the star, the dominant fighter. That's why I love the sport. Yeah, well, there's certainly arguments either way. I mean, there's an interesting triangle between the three of those guys. I mean, there's a lot of good matchups that could be made with those guys. And then also there's Dodson. You know, don't ever sleep on Dodson.

Dodson might have lost to Lineker, but I think Dodson, when he's on, is one of the fastest, most talented guys in the division. It's like he's glued, I always say, to the mat. The way he moves, it jumps like a freaking spider almost. And he doesn't slip. It's really weird. And if he catches you, man, that finish is... I mean, he's a fucking thunderbolt.

Yeah, exactly. They say the lighter weights can't pop. Well, Cody Garbrandt, Dodson, others are showing. Even Demetrius Johnson seems to have, again, pound for pound, one of the greats, right? One of my favorite fighters ever. But I think he's becoming more, not necessarily more aggressive, but there's some finish now to his game as well. He's always been trying to finish guys. But you're fighting a guy like Ali Bagutinov. He's a tough fucking guy.

Tough to finish those guys. Think about who he finished. He finished John Moraga. He finished Haraguchi with one second to go. He's a fucking animal. He knocks out Benavidez with one punch. Beats the shit out of Cejudo. Stops him in one round.

That's where really I was like, wow. It's the shit out of Cejudo. Stops him in one round. That's where really I was like, wow. But I'm hoping, like we've seen with boxing, that the UFC fan base, MMA fan base, begins to rally around these lighter weight classes. Because to me, that's mixed martial arts at its best. I always loved WEC. That was my favorite show.

Because these guys had full gas tanks. Nowadays, everybody has them. But at the time, we're only the lightweights. And that's why was my favorite show. Because these guys had full gas tanks. Nowadays, everybody has it. But at the time, we're only the lightweights. And that's why I love that show. And then when UFC bought it up, I thought, hey, more power to them. Actually very smart. I think Cody Garbrandt has a real possibility of becoming a huge mainstream star. He's a handsome guy.

He's a devastating puncher. Amen. Vicious striker. He's charismatic. He's confident. He's very moral and ethical. You know, his relationship with that young boy that had leukemia. Fantastic.

Helped him through it. I mean, it's like intense, intense shit, man. I mean, he's a special guy. And that's... Was it leukemia? Is that what it was? Yeah, leukemia, right. I mean, he's a special guy. The Arnold Arnold stops out, man.

Like I said, we just mentioned it on our podcast. It's like... It was almost like he was holding back, and he said, okay, I'm going to pull it out once I fight for the title. That's when I'm really going to show what I can do, because he looked like a completely different fighter. He was always good, but this was a whole different level. But the way he dominated Dominic Cruz mentally,

especially leading up to the fight where it appeared that he had gotten, you know, Cruz had gotten under his skin when he stormed out of the interview. But from the opening bell, like you say, the taunting and stuff, and yet able to back it up and show whether it's evolution or whether it was already there. A masterful performance, man. He grew up in tough environments. And I think that what he said after the fight, when I asked him about it, like, was it taunting? No, I love that stuff. It was like, I'm used to that. Like, you know, that was an environment where he's comfortable in.

Well, he was also able to stay real calm in that, you know, world championship spotlight. That's very difficult to do. Plus, he flipped it around, you know. He shows Cruz that he doesn't want to go into this battle almost, like walking off. But then once the fight started, he started doing doing it to Cruz and I think it got to Cruz You know pointing at the ground doing a little break dance moves But then credit Cruz for the way he handled defeat Yeah, but there's a real way she's like a man like a man

No, I thought as good as anybody Tim Kennedy's another one handled as good as anybody. Yeah, some guys Yes handled it McGregor handled as good as anybody. He beat me. That's it. That's as admirable as putting out the correct game plan and winning. I mean, there's something incredibly admirable about a guy who can take a loss like a man or a woman. I mean, anyone who can just accept what happened and that's just what it is. It's very unfortunate when you see someone that's saying some things that don't really make sense, like after a fight or blaming it on other people or blaming it on their camp or blaming it on an injury. And I think you did bring this up, and I agree with you in terms of when someone has been knocked out or someone has been in a very

grueling, tough fight, I don't know why we are forced to interview them. Yeah, I don't think it's fair. It's not fair. I know it's put you and myself to a time where I'm like, it's not right. I remember I've interviewed Crow Cop after the Gonzaga fight when Gonzaga

head kicked him. I was asking him questions. He had no idea where he was. He could tell there was no one home. I mean he had just gotten completely flatlined and I said to them then, I said I really don't think we should interview people after knockouts again but I dropped it. We never talked about it again

and then after that one I was like that doesn't make any sense. He was out cold. Like you said, Alistair Overeem, obviously, too, where he, you know, for whatever reason, thought what he did. He thought he had a guarantee. Yeah, he really did. Not even close. No, not even close.

So it's, yeah, and that's, you know, too unfortunate that, and I don't see what it accomplished is anyway. No, it didn't make me feel bad, too. And I had to give him the opportunity. And then I had to give him an opportunity again because you couldn't see it for the first time Yeah, so we had to watch it from another angle and the other angle revealed that it didn't happen So he's kind of stuck. Yeah. Yeah, you know that's not fair It's not but it's also not fair if someone tells you they had a guillotine. You gotta go look at Oh, whoa 100 yeah, you have one never yes, of course. No no you're crazy

Yeah, we saw that he had the guillotine, we saw Stipe do this, and we went, oh, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, hey, what about my introduction to Prime? My very first show, Bushido won our first fight. Chris Brennan, Eiji Matsuoka. I'm settling in, getting ready. I'm really excited to work with Boss. And immediately, there's controversy.

Brennan had Matsuokaoka in the arm bar. We saw him tap, and right away the referee, oh, wait, what's happening? They actually restarted the fight, and seconds later Brennan submits him with the Kimura. So right off the bat, a double submission in my first fight. Kimura master. Yeah, I always...

He's got a lot of great setups with Kimura. How is he doing right now? Did you hear? I haven't talked to him in a while. Last I saw him was at a UFC a couple years back. He said hi, and I know he was teaching in Dallas. Yeah, I think on social media every so often I see him. I think he's... He's a very successful instructor.

Right. He's a very good jiu-jitsu instructor on top of being a very good fighter. Yeah. No, that was... Yeah, it's... So many. So many memories, man. Boy, that's Sakuraba,'s so many, so many memories, man. Boy, that's Sakuraba, right?

Sakuraba all the way back. Also, do you see a double tap? Right. Armbar against Cotone. Silvera. Cotone and Silvera, right. And Murillo Bustamante. I think even our good friend Big John said that was the biggest, you know, he owned up to it, too.

But that, you know, the guy doesn't make many mistakes. But that one, I know that he, in the book, regretted greatly, obviously, so. Yeah. But, yeah, sorry, you were saying Marilla Bustamante? Yeah, in the UFC against, god damn it, how the fuck am I not remembering? Was it from

Team Quest? Yes. Oh, Matt Lindland? Matt Lindland. Yes, yes. We just talked about that the other day. Yeah. Yeah, he got Matt Lindland in arm bar, Matt Lindland tapped, he said he didn't tap, they restart. Yeah. Yeah, he got Matt Lindland an arm bar. Yeah. Matt Lindland tapped. He said he didn't tap. They restarted again.

Yep. And then he got him in a guillotine the next round. Exactly. That was when Murillo was on top of the world. Oh, man. Murillo was so good. Man, what a great rivalry, too, back in Pride. BTT and Shooter Box, man.

Oh, yeah, man. It was to the point where, you know, even walking by each other, it's like, okay, wait a minute, what's going on here? It was so intense, very intense rivalry, which made for some legendary matchups. We were talking on the way here. It was giant. I mean, you guys represented like this Wild West. It was just, everything was crazy. It was out of control.

That's the thing. But there were also, at the time, these were the best of the best. But you're right, it was also the mix of what we already talked about. But we were talking on the way here. Mauricio Shogun Hua, remember, 23 years old, goes through Quinton Rampage Jackson, Antonio Rogerio Noguero, one of the best fights in Pride history. And then in one night, Alistair Overeem and Ricardo Rona to win that Grand Prix. And, you know, say what John Jones did at 23.

God bless him, man. One of the best. But Mauricio Shogun, who a beast at that age, man. Oh, yeah. I mean, there was a lot of guys. And it's almost like I would have loved to have seen what Nogueira in his prime would have been able to do in the UFC. And I would have loved to have seen what Fedor in his prime. Because essentially when Nogueira fought Fedor,

he was in his prime. Yes. I mean, was that pre or post Bob Sapp? That was after. After because he fought Sapp at the National Stadium at Chaucer where he got dropped on his... See, the problem with that is anything post Bob Sapp, you have to take into consideration

how much damage he took from Bob Sapp. Because he got beat the fuck up in that fight. That was Sapp's. Dropped on his head. I thought he killed him. I thought when we were doing the commentating, I'd go, here we got. This is our first death. Right?

When he piledrived him into the ground. He piledrived him head first and he's 350 pounds. What about the, it's similar with the Monsterplex, right? Our dearly departed friend, Kevin Randleman, when fresh off of upsetting Mirko Krokop, he goes and drops Fedor on his head. And again, Fedor Emelianenko, like you say, would have been very good to see what we would have done in his prime because even despite being dropped on his head, calmly, coolly regrouped and then submits Randleman with the arm bar a minute and a half later.

Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah, Fedor in his prime. The one thing that was, I mean, it's actually just interesting. It's cool to see those old videos and watch those old fights. But there's something about epic matchups between great fighters. Like the opportunity of Cain Velasquez in his prime versus Fedor in his prime. I would have loved to see that. Cain before all these injuries. I would have loved to see that.

Yeah, who didn't? We did get to see Mirko and Fedor, which at the time, that was the most anticipated heavyweight fight in MMA history in 2005. What's most amazing about that fight is Fedor beat him standing. Exactly. He's the one

that adapted and beat Mirko at his most potent weapon. He's the guy that is striking. It looks not technical. But when he strikes, it's perfect. There's no load up whatsoever. He holds his fist still and from here, it goes forward. You can't tell when he shots.

He's accurate. Remember the entry into the guard? Remember the headbutt with Antonio Rodrigo accurate he's in the entry to the guard and cost of the headbutt with Antonio Drigo no guarantee the final of the tournament but yeah the way he would enter the garden I think that's what Fabrizio their doom did his homework because remember their doom almost bait well he did he baited him when he when he submitted him and I think they're doomed you know well the Osaka fight also. Well, that was against the Kosaka fight also, right? When Kosaka fought Fedor. The first time or the rematch? The rematch.

Okay, yeah. In Pride. Right. He was throwing these bombs. And I'm doing the commentating. I said, well, he's really overcommitting. He should watch out that he doesn't fall in a triangle choke. Right.

And then they brought that piece and they put it next to the piece when he fought Verdum. And that's exactly what happened. He was overcommitting. And right away, they slapped on that triangle. That first blemish against TK, though, was ridiculous, right? The elbows. In rings, that was an egregious error. It should not have been.

I don't remember that fight. It was against Kosaka? Yeah, the cuts of the elbows. That's why they stopped the fight. It didn't really stop. Yeah, no, no. It should have been a victory. Was there no elbows allowed on the ground?

Is that what the problem was? Man, when I think back now, the rule, it just seemed like there was no real rule. But rings had no ground and pound, right? Yes, and they also, again, came from wrestling and then into the shoot. How was rings, you could hit to the body on the ground? Is that how it worked? Yeah, was that it? I have no clue.

I feel like you couldn't hit to the head on the ground? Is that how it worked? Yeah, was that it? I have no clue. I feel like you couldn't hit to the head on the ground. They had some weird rules. Well, and a promotion that introduced people to people like Fedor, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, Dan Henderson. I mean, they, Renato Babalu Sobral. Rings, that's a thing in Japan, man. I wish it would have been nice to have our friend join us for some of those fights. I should have definitely made a trip over there just to watch, you know, because I was thinking of flying to see Fedor fight against Mitrione.

Why didn't you, my man? Why didn't you ever make it over there? Oh, I was just busy. No, no, not this one. Busy with life. Yeah. Life. But I just, I feel like that's one of the things that I probably should have saw was

pride in its prime. I always tell people that. When you guys were selling out 90,000 seats. I remember Dana, he came for the first time. They were sitting first row. And I remember when I looked back, when the opening started, I looked back, and he's with his mouth open. He looks around. He goes, this is the craziest experience.

And I remember looking at him. I go, right? This is crazy. I mean, it was insane. He brought Chuck, you remember? Yeah. He got time to fight his opponent. Chuck brought him in.

Chuck brought Alistair over and Quentin Rampage Jackson. He fought. But, okay, well, there you go. The UFC used to have the ramp and the elaborate entrances, and I know they wanted to separate from my other line of employment, WWE, and the wrestling aspect. But I know Bellator does a pretty decent job with their entrances and stuff. Do you think that that is something that could help UFC now,

or is it you like the boxing entrance, it's pure, you know, the sport aspect of it? Because I think fans, in Japan, man, I mean, the production values were ridiculous. I think it added to the experience. Well, it's definitely a different thing, whether or not it's better. I don't know, man. I just like this past UFC with Ronda Rousey and Amanda Nunes walking down the tunnel. I like just watching that.

I agree. And that's what I want to see. All those guys. Yeah, I agree. I don't give a fuck about fireworks. I'm not a little kid. Yeah, you're not. I want to see what someone's face looks like

when they're about to go to war. You know, when I watch the UFC, most of the time, you know, it's recorded. I turn my phones off, and that's where I go fast forward. I go to the fights. Only when you pick something up from the internet, they go like, you know, it's recorded, I turn my phones off, and that's where I go fast forward. I go to the fights. Only when you pick something up for the internet, they go like, oh man, that was a cool

end, I was like, let's take a look at that, you know, so I have a little bit of an idea, but that's how it shows how much I enjoy it. But the video footage that they have, the pride fighting championships, and especially the one with Fedor and Kroko, you know, Kroko crying, and you know, Kroko crying.

No, this pageantry was amazing, for sure. They were like movie trailers. Before the fight, they'd show you the movie trailer. And they were not allowed to show it to the American audience. For some reason, they had this... I don't know why that was. They weren't allowed to show the movie trailer part of it? No. That was Tokyo TV or whoever had that contract.

Fuji TV. Fuji TV. Used to give like five million bucks a show. Well, it was always weird for us when your shows would either be on at like four o'clock in the morning. So I'd have guys over my house at four o'clock in the morning. Everybody would be drinking Red Bull, trying to stay awake, and then Pride would come on. Or you guys would have the fights and then it would air on TV a while later.

Like later. Yeah, I tried to break that. I was calling all the winners in, you know, to see Yeah, yeah. I tried to break that. I was calling all the winners in, you know, to see with gambling if we could do something with that, but no. It didn't work. Cubs win the World Series in 2015. But everybody knew the results, you know, because of all the websites. Yeah.

So you just watch to see what happened. But isn't fighting the one sport? Combat sports is the one forget football, baseball, hockey, everything else. I don't care if I know the result. I will watch a fight. Yeah, if I know the result, I'll watch a fight, too. It's just, I think it's the art, Meryl Streep.

No, it's not as good, but it's still, I don't know, maybe because it's a more digestible size, but I just, I find fighting to be something, you know, I will watch, other than if I record a hockey game and I know the score will end, screw it, I'm not watching. Yeah, man, I was reading some of the responses to Meryl Streep. Like, Jesus Christ. She just blasted four Olympic sports, is what I said. But, okay, you're the entertainer, you're the comedian.

In what context do you think she... My knee-jerk reaction, same thing. Hey, love me some Meryl Streep, but why do you have to trash MMA? I'm wondering if she didn't even ever know what mixed martial arts was. Someone gave her the word with arts in it, and she made the time, well, it's not even arts. But a football pompous... It doesn't say football arts, right? No, no.

Well, she went after mixed martial arts because she said the word arts, and then she riffed it. You're right. She said, which, by the way, is not the art. Okay, well, what arts? It's not the art of pretending. You're right. It's the art of execution under extreme circumstances. Very difficult circumstances, highly trained opponent,

trying to smash bones in your face, incredibly difficult to do. And when it's done right, it's artistic. You can't tell me when Anderson Silva landed that front kick to Vitor Belfort's face and you see Vitor's legs giving. That's art. That's art. What about Rio Chonan on Anderson Silva? Oh yeah, the flying scissor hook. Right into the heel hook.

That was incredible. That was like a movie scene, man. Brazilian jiu-jitsu is art. Yeah, how about a brutal piece of art is when Quentin Rampage Jackson that Ricardo Arona slam. Oh my God. He arches backwards

in order to slam him. I don't even know how he kept his balance. Didn't someone actually call that shot a few seconds before? Did you call that? Did you say it was going to come?

I saw it coming, believe it or not. Jesus Christ. Why did Arona hold on to that title? Yeah, why did he hold on? You gotta let go of that fucking thing, man.

But then the replay, though, you did see they did smash heads violently as well. But you're right. Why did he hold on? He was probably gone anyway, man, even if they didn't smash heads. The impact was so brutal. Arona was essentially never the same again. No. You know, he never really fought well again after that fight.

And there was a guy, too, with so much potential, right? Yeah. But there, you know what's funny? We're talking again, Paulo Filho, another guy. He went crazy though, remember? Yeah, he did. He did. But it's just, you see Gegard Mousasi, the evolution of him and what he's now doing in

the UFC. He's at the brink right now, man. I agree. He's at the door of the top guys in 185. I like it. I need to say about Arona, because I was interviewing Arona and he had a cup of tea, like Japanese green tea was standing here, and somebody, and it was so cool, and he kept his cool so good, pushed the thing, it fell off, and he's sitting, and he does this.

And he comes up with the cup. He grabbed it. He didn't even look at it. I go, dude. And he kept his cool, because I know in his mind he's going to go, I got it. I got it. But just not looking, go, cuck.

And he brings it back up and he sets it down. I go, man, those are some great reflexes. He was a jiu-jitsu stud, as was Paulo Filho. Paulo Filho was one of those guys. He got you on the ground, man. He was a fucking pit bull. Do you remember what you just called a fight? Luis Azaredo and Luis Firmino in Bushido 6, I want to say.

It was, to me, the earliest example for me and Pride, one of the best grappling fights I'd ever seen in an MMA arena. Remember Ricardo Arona and Dean Lister in their rematch from the Abu Dhabi, and we were pumping the crap out of it. It wasn't the most fan-friendly fight, my friend. Hey, let me ask you guys about this while it's on my mind because I'm thinking about grappling matches. What did you guys think about Aoki?

How Aoki used to wear those tights and when he went to fight in the U.S., they wouldn't let him wear the tights. Eddie Bravo and I have talked about this a million times. I don't see a problem with him wearing the tights. Does it absorb the sweat? Yeah, so then it has more traction. I don't see a problem with him wearing the tights. Does it absorb the sweat? Yeah. So then it has more traction.

But girls can wear rash guard tops, right? Can they cover their arms? Can girls cover their arms? I don't know. I don't know. No, they should not be allowed to do that. I don't. I wonder.

Because I know what you said. Okay, so why do you think he should have been allowed to just... It's fun. Yeah. I wonder. Because I know what you said. Okay, so why do you think he should have been allowed to just... It's fun. Yeah. When I watched Aoki fight in Pride, man, it was fun. He would wrap dudes up with his crazy legs. Well, how about Imanari? Yes. He had a Mazakazu Imanari in his leg attacks.

Incredible leg attacks. Oh, I love those leg attacks, man. Imanari. He put those re-rolled... George Gurgel's ACL out. Yes. Yes. Although...

Roll on your knees, man. Joachim Hansen. Joachim Hansen. The walk-off knee to the MNRE. There's another guy. I wonder why he never came to the UFC. Because I know I heard stories. He didn't want to.

Yeah, that's right. He apparently didn't want, like, you know, when the UFC bought Pride and they had the contracts, he apparently didn't want to come over. Right. He also has been in a ton of wars. Oh, man. And, you know, he wars. I think he just fought again recently.

That's what I read. He's from Norway, right? He was powerful from his back, remember? He was one of the few guys that could actually hurt you from back position. I saw one guy, a Russian one time, who knocked somebody out who mounted him. Really? He laid

on his back and he big swing and he wins the fight. Knocks the guy out while the guy had mounted him. Eve Edwards said that Dwayne Ludwig broke his orbital bone when Dwayne was on his back. Dwayne swung up and cracked Eve in the eyeball and broke his orbital from the bottom. Oh, wow.

Eve Edwards, he did the coolest thing, what I always wanted to do when the fight when they hold a single leg. You know, was it Lenny? Berto, yeah, I think it's in Berto. He stands on one leg, and then he jumps up, he's in the head, knocks him out. I'm telling my students about this, that you can do this, but I never did it. That's an awesome move.

Man, he was a part. He trained a lot with me as well. Ian Henson actually had that great fight. Oh, let's see it here. Let's see it here. Yeah, yeah. Hansen, there you go. One leg.

He stands on one leg. Oh, it's beautiful. Yvette was a talented, talented guy. Well, that's his first fight in Pride against Joachim Hansen. We talked about a split decision. But, buddy, that show, Joe, to me, maybe... I mean, Pride had so many legendary cards as well. But everyone always asks me who, you know, I want to get into Pride Fighting Championships.

What do I watch? Well, lots. I always tell them to start with Bushido 9, the tournament. That's a good one. Where that fight, well, the fight with Hanson and we just talked about it, Edwards. But how about Gomi? Two Fight of the Year candidates in one night against Luis Azaredo and

Tatsuya Kawajiri. Dan Henderson, Gono, and Chonan. Tremendous night of fights, bro. Yeah, and those are some of the ones that kind of get lost. Yes. That get forgotten about. Were you talking about Enson Inouye? Fight pass.

Yeah, fight pass. Were you mentioning Enson Inouye? Who were you mentioning? Because I have a funny story about Enson. No, no, not Enson. I bet you have a funny story about Enson. What happened? He challenged him.

Mauro challenged Enzo. So let's rewind then, shall we? Oh, my God. Mr. Mark Coleman and Kevin Randleman, we were in Boss's hotel room. This is after Pride event. We don't know which one. And Pride back then loved to party, loved to experiment. And I'm a good, humble, innocent Canadian boy who hadn't really gotten out

much, Joe. How, when we say experiment, we're talking about, like, my kind of experiment? Well, boss, he... Boss says, Maura, have you ever taken a Percocet? I'm like, what? And he's like, have you ever taken a Percocet? So I'm, of course, looking it up, a painkiller, I don't know, the hell would I want,

no, and I'm not that interested. Come on, you gotta try it. I said, oh, okay. Well, why not? So he gives me, you gave me three Percocets, dude. Not one, three. So I take these things. Okay, fine. Just whatever.

Coleman and Randleman walk in and all of a sudden, you know, I'm still, I'm not feeling it. You know me. I'm very impatient. I'm like, well, what the hell? It's not working. It's not working. Randleman asks Bosco, he goes, what do you give him?

And Bosco goes, I gave him three percocets you did what and then all of a sudden almost on cue it it hits me and i end up uh ensign anyway was there uh with us as well visiting and i end up for some reason going into my old uh pro wrestling manager heel mode and going right up to ensign and go hey i think i can take you bro i think i can take and i'm. I think I can take you. And I'm doing this. And I'm really just kind of needling him. And he's trying to be nice. He knows, okay, this is the English announcer, cool, whatever. But I'm pushing it because I'm impacted by Percocets.

Right. But are you thinking that you're doing a performance? No. That's the thing. I felt like I was hot. I was like this. You were out of your head. I was out of my mind, man.

So you really thought in some strange world that you were going to be able to beat up Ensign Inouye. I don't think I could beat him up. I don't think I could beat him up, Joe, but I challenged him to fight. He finally had enough. Palm face palm me, broke my glasses, and I got a bloody nose. And I'm like, well, now I've got to wear the badge of honor. And I took the picture with him and Ensign, and I'm like, yeah, I don't think I'll be doing P honor. And I took the picture with him and Ensign and I'm like, yeah,

I don't think I'll be doing Percocets anymore. I'll stick to other naff tatsies. Is that the only time you've ever challenged a train killer? Yes. Thank you. Yes. And never again thanks to the Percocets. You're lucky Ensign's a good guy. He is a really good guy. He's a really good guy. Tomorrow when he hit the ground, we said, okay,

this is over. We're not gonna allow any more ground to pass. Do you remember when Ensign armbarred Randy Couture? Yes. And he was one of the first guys I ever saw throw really hard kicks to the legs from his guard. Yes. And I remember watching that going, oh, look at this, because he would prop himself up on his back arm and whip that leg into it. And he hit Randy with some hard kicks from off of his back.

But what about our boy, my boy Frank Shamrock? Don Anson, in your way, a lesson in the course almost resulted in it. And he hit Randy with some hard kicks from off of his back. But what about our boy, my boy Frank Shamrock? Don Hanson, anyway, a lesson in the course almost resulted in the rampage when his brother what's Hanson's brother's name? Egan? Egan? They were always fighting. They were always fighting.

It almost became a brawl because of what Frank did. And speaking of brawls, how about Coleman and Mauricio Shogun Hua when Hua went to post, broke his arm, and shoot a box. And Hammerhouse, Phil Barone, Evander Lee Silver stamping on Phil Barone. He said pride was wild, bro. It was amazing shit going on down there.

You guys had like real street fights in the back. Oh, yeah. Oh, no, High and Gracie just walking into the place. High and Gracie decides, out of the blue, I have no, then, you know, crazy horse. Just walking into the place, High and Gracie decides, out of the blue, I have no clue why to pull the fire alarm. This is before

the whole show starts. Oh, and Saitama, and Buddy, the extinguisher fell like a colored extinguisher. And he's screaming, yeah! Everything falls out

of the freaking ceiling. Oh, so the fire retardant fire retardant material. Yeah, he released it. He released it. Spraying into the sky. And the show went on anyway? The show went on.

He's just walking and suddenly he separates himself from the group. And he hits that thing. Did he fight that night? Yeah. He fought that night. That was the night. The first night when he said. Well, the first.

That's right. The very first Bushido was the first time five members of the Gracie family had ever competed on the same card, although Daniel by marriage. Right. So you had Henzo and Carlos Nunes so you had Henzo Hayen

Rodrigo Daniel and who was the other one I'm missing now no disrespect but the Daniel thing is a weird one yeah I know

is that your last name or is it your wife's last name yeah yeah what in the fuck is going on here sir I went to a boxing gym one time if I just could use

the boxing the ring you know to train and the guy comes to me and gym one time. If I just could use the boxing, the ring, you know, to train. And the guy comes to me and he says, if you want, I can teach you some groundwork. He says, you know, I'm a Gracie. I say, you're Gracie? Yeah. I'm married to a Gracie. He was married to a Gracie.

How strange. No, but you're right. But that night, Hyann took the mic after and went off. I mean, using every expletive known to man. Just snapped because of the Hidehiko Yoshida, Hoist Gracie controversy. Well, High End was the craziest of all. But you know what?

We had some good times with him. Real good times. Like you say, a tortured soul. But to us, anyway, always a good. One of the few, not few, a lot of guys, but he always went out of his way to make me, I mean, you're a legend, but to make the mean nothing announcer feel good. He always came up, good to see you. Well, once you challenged Ensign, you probably got the respect pretty much everybody.

No, I'm thinking that whole crazy altercation we had with all the bounces, that was Randleman also. Buddy, the very first New Year's Eve we spent in Japan for Shockwave, it was you, Kevin Randleman, High End Gracie, Quentin Rampage. And Quentin left the group because he knew this was going to go wrong. When Quentin Rampage and the boys of Reece Jackson left. The sensible man. What a mad group you guys had. At the end of the night, though, the one that made the most sense was this guy. You were the one that kept the peace because Kevin was losing his mind.

And even high and grace, he kept saying, Mauro, don't worry. We'll be okay. And I'm like, why? He goes, just trust me. We're okay. And I swear to God, I thought he might have had a gun. What are you saying? What was going on?

What are you going to be okay about? We bought some wheat from some bounces there. And I didn't look because, you know, it's going on? What would it be okay about? Okay, so go ahead. We bought some wheat from some bouncers there. And I didn't look because, you know, it's a felony there. So I just get it and we walk off. And while we walk off, we realize that I pick it out and say, oh, that is not enough. So I go back and I say, guys, that's not enough. You need to give me more. And he goes, no, it's not going to happen.

And he has this attitude. I say, okay, well, let me do it different. I'm going to be back in 10 minutes. We are going to be back in 10 minutes. We are going to be back in 10 minutes. And then it better be here. So we walk around and we thought, you know, maybe we should light it up. At least we relax.

And we're in this weird, what is it? There's mailboxes. Like it's an entrance to an apartment complex. And suddenly, Randalman starts jumping up and he starts getting angry and he hits a mailbox and then Ryan starts and I'm trying to keep

both these guys down and I go, no, no, no, you guys relax, relax. I go, shut up, my friend. I say to Ryan and Ryan go,

don't talk to me like this. I say, come on, man, are you really doing this right now? And we get this whole fight goes on. I said, no, no, we got to relax. Stay relaxed.

You smoke a little weed. We're going to go back. Now, finally, everybody calmed down. We go back. And these guys probably called somebody. Oh, no, no. First of all, we walk back to the two big guys. And I walk over. I say, oh, so we need it right now. And they say, oh, we need to wait

because they're bringing it right now. So right away already, we're looking back. And sure enough, there's two big guys coming also same clothes as they have, and you see them very sturdy walking up to us, and as soon as they see us, they make a 180, and they talk back, and the phone goes from the guy, and I go,

those are the guys calling you right now telling you you gotta give it up, and he goes, he opens the phone, and the guy, he says, okay, and he puts it down, and he gave us a whole mountain. The two guys recognized there was been the pride-fighting badass. It was right out of a movie, man. It was hilarious.

But in the whole altercation when everybody started jumping, that's when Quentin left. Yes, Quentin said, that's hilarious. I'm not going to stay in this. I'm going to chase the lettuce. That's hilarious. They had great times, great times. Yeah, crazy times. Those were good times.

Yep. How much of a presence was the whole Yakuza thing while you guys were there? Like, how aware of you guys, of it were you guys? No, I was aware of it, but nobody would notice. And honestly, for me, never. They don't do anything like that, but real estate shows like this. You saw people sitting down there. Okay, well, that looks interesting.

Did you see people with, like, they were missing fingers and tattoos? The guy who put the tattoos on, remember that? Oh, man. That was where Masato, the kickboxer, was training in the dungeon. Mickey Rourke was there also, I think. Mickey Rourke was there. And we were in this strip club, and this guy sits there with long hair, and he comes over to me and says, hey, how are you doing?

Like a little feminine, really weird. You got me your biggest fan? I'm your biggest fan. Oh, now we got this crazy guy here, right? And I had no clue what to think. And he says, oh, you're a great fighter. You want to know what I do? And he takes his shirt off, and he's all tatted up, and people start literally leaving the

place there. I think I realized he's Yakuza, right? So we started talking, and I was talking about a tattoo that I wanted in this color. I said, but in America that I wanted in this color. I said, but in America it's hard to find. At the time, people only wanted to use black ink. And he says, no, that's not hard at all. Why don't you come tomorrow morning and I can do this for you.

So the next day, he and I, we go to this dungeon, like five stories under the ground, right? It was the weirdest place. We opened the door. There's a cage with a bag that Masato actually used to train on, apparently. Yeah, Masato used to train in that cage. In the cage with two Dobermans. And they fly up against the thing. It's like there's human skulls everywhere. There's pictures of books killing people.

This guy, you come in, he starts screaming. And all the people who are getting tattooed at that moment, they all get up. And they run out of this place. They lock the door. And I look at Mara and say, what's going to happen now? Because this is a really weird situation. But no, he put me on the table, put the tattoo on,

and he did a great work. But he started looking. We made pictures. I was taking pictures, I was taking video of you. Yeah, because I have a skull with a bullet hole in there. I was going to actually record an audio will as well because not knowing. So you said there was a cage where Masato used to train?

That's what they said. Masato the kickboxer? Yeah. I said, who trains you, Masato? Yeah. So he would train in a cage in the basement. Well, five stories below. I mean, we kept going down.

It was the craziest thing. If you think about all the earthquakes they have. Yeah. You know, you go like that. I don't know if it was his regular training. But also with the Dobermans in there. Yeah. I don't know if it was his regular training. But also with the Dobermans in there. Yeah, I don't know if it was his regular training, Joe, but that's what the guy said, that it was Masato.

He may have even maybe had an interest in Masato. Do you remember when Masato fought Cool Vince Phillips? Cool Vince Phillips. Cool Vince Phillips, the boxer. Yeah, the boxer. American boxing champion. The boxer, right. Yeah, and he went over and fought Masato,

and Masato whipped those legs up. Masato's an animal at that time. I mean, even against the Dutch guys, he was insane. See if you can find that, Jamie. Yeah. See if you can find Masato versus Vince Phillips. It's really interesting to see like a top flight. He lit those legs up like a Christmas tree box.

If you can see a top flight American boxer fight against a kickboxer, you know, in his prime. K1 Max 2003. Here we are. Yeah, but, you know, in his prime. K-1 Max, 2003. Here we are. Yeah, but, you know, in Vince Phillips, in his defense, he was beyond his prime. You see his body had started to fade. But look at that. He kicked across the legs.

Who was it that took one kick and got out of the ring? Ray Mercer? Was it? No, Ray Mercer knocked out. No, Mercer was with the Kimbo in the MMA thing. But who was the fighter who went to Japan, the American boxer, and took one kick and stopped? Got out of the ring.

Oh, it was in K-1, right? Yeah. Yeah, it was Tommy Morrison? Not Morrison. Nah, I forgot now. Yeah, sorry. But it was similar. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it was a blonde guy. But look, Masato was awesome. And the boxing stance doesn't really help for the right look. He's getting his arms lit up, too. And Masato was going across the arms and then across the back leg, too. Rob Kamen style. He did a lot of that. And he just moved a lot and just kicked those legs.

Like every time. There you see Phillips is already starting to wear down. And Masato was a good boxer, too, man. It's like you couldn't deny his hands. I mean, he might not have been the same boxer that Vince Phillips was in his prime, but with all those leg kicks, it makes such a difference. Do you remember Gomi and Pulver at Shockwave? I thought that was some of the best MMA boxing boss we'd seen at that time.

Gomi at the time was really good as well. And he was Pulver, right? That's it. He just couldn't get up. Did you remember that fight, Joe? The time was really good as well. And he was pulver, right? He just couldn't get up. Did you remember that fight, Joe? With pulver and Gomi? Yeah, Gomi knocked him down. What about Haritonov as well?

Sergey Haritonov early in Pride showed good boxing. I mean, everyone has that debate and argument about boxing, how would they do in MMA? We know it's two different sports, but when it comes to that aspect of MMA, the boxing... Well, Sergey went into K-1. Sergey, he had quite a few

K-1 fights, and then recently got back into MMA, right? Didn't do well in his debut. But he got clipped. Complete animal, man. He used to train with Fedor. I remember all the way back that was one big group, because I remember the split at the time.

And Fofchanshin, what happened to him? He was a really great guy, too. He was so funny, a nice guy. One of the scariest stoppages that I ever saw was against Semmy Schilt. Do you remember when he mounted Semmy Schilt and got on top of him in like

a mounted triangle and started smashing his eyes, smashing his keraton off, got on top of him, and he's just punching him in one eye over and over and over again. Yeah, I remember that. Semi-Shilt, man, such a physical presence. He just didn't have the ground game to deal with Karatanov back then. And Karatanov just took him on time i mean that was back when semi was beating everybody in k1 with that long front kick at the time i the first time i saw for change it i was commentating this fight in uh the ukraine and uh it was a while

that was a really the whole trip was a wild trip. Ask Charlie Anzalone, you know, from Vegas. But he fought in an eight-man tournament. He was the lightest guy, he's like 190 pounds. He won a lot of tournaments. And he destroyed all these guys. I think the lightest guy he fought was Paul Varelans. Wow. That was the lightest guy.

Varelans was like 330. Oh, dude, it was insane. I mean, and he just knocked everybody out. And I go like, hmm, this Falk Churching guy is pretty good. I remember he fought on this big, giant mat once. They did something. It was almost like they matted up a basketball court with white mats, and he fought on it. It's an interesting thing, but I've been bringing this up a lot lately.

I really think MMA would be better off with a larger surface and no cage. Just like a basketball court. Just like that size. Well, for sight lines, definitely I agree with you. I just think takedowns, the clinch game up against the cage, all that would be gone. That's cool. Metamorris-type fighting surface for MMA? Well, the problem with Metamorris is it's elevated.

Right. You don't want dudes falling off. No, no, no, exactly. But that kind of like you like that open space. Yeah, I think a big open space on the ground, just matted ground. The Yama? Well, Yama's still at a No, no, no, exactly. But that kind of like, you like that open space. I think a big open space on the ground. Just matted ground. The Yama? Well, Yama's still at a cage, though, too. The tip.

Four cameras is not going to work. It's going to be very hard for the audience to see, as well, because it's all one level. Isn't that what they say now? That's what the basketball court is. The basketball court's all one level. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, a lot of people say, though, when they go to an event that they are watching the screen because of that, right?

Yeah. I think you could do it on a basketball court. Yeah, but a basketball... I just think that... But they still see here. The basketball boards, the people on the floor, they can at least see the cage, the bottom of the cage. But if somebody sits in front of them, they can't see anything. Well, if you have tiered seating, if you have tiered stadium-style seating,

and then there'll be a front row, and then there's got to be some sort of dividing line because you don't want to get run over if you're in the front row. Some fucking gorilla. It's like wrestling, college wrestling. Yeah, yeah. If Big Ben Rothwell comes piling through and slams on your girlfriend and breaks both her legs. Or Travis Brown.

Yeah, anybody who's in the front row. Yeah, that could be a problem, I think. That could be an issue. The front row could be an issue. The front row could be an issue. But as long as they can keep people from piling into the crowd. Yeah. Because if you could have that, you would be able to watch something happen with no cage. There's one thing that I see over and over again.

It's a very grueling aspect to MMA when guys are tied up against a cage and they're clenching and they're throwing knees to the body and they're throwing elbows in tight. And it is a grueling sort of— but it's also grueling in an artificial way. Like it's artificial that they're pressed up against something. Right. And that cage becomes a factor in the fight. But it doesn't have to be a factor.

I think the more factors you can remove, like extraneous factors outside of your opponent, the better. The pure fight. A wall is an extraneous factor. And you can use it to your advantage. You press people up. You take them down with it. There's a lot of things you can do to get back up from it.

But I really feel like it's an extraneous. What about an automatic break? Or is that taking too much then away from the fight? If you go against the fence, okay, stop. No. That's stupid too. You ruin it, right? That's too good.

Put the fans on the, electricity on the fans. Huh? That would be something. I said it would actually be a pride fighting championship if you were holding. People who are total savages, they would hold someone down

against the fence to see who could take the pain the most. Both of you. Oh, I would do that. Just grab the fence and shove him into it. We're both jolted frozen up. Your ears are smoking.

But you know, the difference going from a ring to a cage is already huge. Because there's no corners, so I can only imagine that. Because no more wall walking, no more everything. That Bernard Hopkins knockout last week. Oh, yeah. When he saw him get through. Horrible. Horrible.

Not last week, last month or so. But when he went through that ring like that and fell down on his head, I was like, how do they not protect against this? Well, in pride it's happened. If you remember, there was an official pride fight. Well, yeah, Frank and I, we flew out of the ring as well. But in pride they have an army of people, right? They were already there with their numbers on their back.

Remember those kids? But that was always one of the problems about the Pride ring, right? You forced a break. Well, it happens in Lion Fight, too. I was watching one of Kyle Hollenbeck's fights, and he fell out of the ring and smacked his knees on the edge of the apron as he was falling out. I remember Marvin Eastman falling out of a ring in Vancouver,

almost seriously hurting himself as well before he got the goat's vagina. Why don't they have, like like a netting in between the ropes to prevent people from falling through? It would still serve the same purpose. You would think so, right? Or more vertical ropes as well in between. Do you remember the old Valley Tudor fight between Pele and Chuck Liddell?

Yeah. They had a net under the the first rope the bottom row Shoving them in there and they were bare knuckle fighting Chuck was punched him in the face bare knuckle Yeah, and he couldn't escape. He was locked them up in the nuts in there like a fish fuck beat out of them Jesus Christ Gary Goodrich with the Pedro when he went to squeeze the payload us Yeah, I went right into his pants and grabbed a hold of his junk and crushed his balls with his hand. And he had some grip, man. I can tell you. I was at a hotel one time getting a massage

and while I'm getting the massage the girl put a towel over your face. So I don't know who's massaging me. And suddenly the massage gets stronger and stronger and stronger and she starts crushing my shins, you know, like really hard. So I throw the towel and go, hey.

And it's a big daddy good race. He walked in and he said, shh, do the go. He starts taking over the massage. And then he squeezed the crap out of my legs. So I know he has grip. Yeah, what a crazy thing. That was a rule. You were allowed to grab the balls.

And so he can go. What about the rules? What about the rules? What about the rules? We'll never see knees to the head, right, under the unified rules. They just implemented some more rules. You wanted to get rid of the midnight to 12 to 6 rule stupid. Yeah, that's a stupid rule. But they haven't changed that, right?

Yeah, we should explain to people what it means. In mixed martial arts, you're not allowed to drop an elbow down from, like, vertical. You can't drop it from 12 to 6 on a clock. And the only reason why that was invented is back in the day when the commissions were approving MMA, Big John McCarthy had a meet with them, and they wouldn't let anybody do that because they had seen people break bricks on ESPN

by dropping elbows like that. And, like, if someone could break a brick, they could kill a person. And it can do it like this, right? With the forearm. It's so stupid. It's so stupid. I mean, it's probably, like, one of the... I mean do it like this right it's so stupid i mean it's probably like one of the i mean i wouldn't say it's the weak it might be my weakest elbow but it's one of the weaker elbows i don't think it's nearly as strong as that kind of elbow plus if you hit a skull and i can tell it's still splintered for me when i fought randallman and okay that was from three to whatever you want to, nine, you know, the horizontal elbows.

But still, you don't want to hit a skull. Chunks floating around in there still? Yeah, you can feel those little pieces, you know. It's from the skull from Gavin. Oh, yeah. Yikes. Yeah, it's just a dumb rule. You know, and that's the one blemish in John Jones' record when he fought Matt Hamill.

Yep, Matt Hamill. He was dropping those elbows. Oh, yeah, yeah. That would be totally illegal. Yeah. I don't know why they haven't put that back in. Yeah, well, I thought that's what they were going to do. Maybe if they hit an eye socket.

Yeah, maybe, maybe. Then the eye could be really damaged. But then again, you know, they can't have it ever. But you could do that standing. Like someone could tomahawk you standing, and it could go right into your eye socket. What about soccer kicks and stomps, Mr. Rogan? Well, see, that's one of the things that we could have if we had a basketball court. You know, you would have soccer kicks on the ground, like, for sure.

You should. I think so. Yeah, I think if you can punch somebody on the ground, you should be able to kick them on the ground. Remember Vanderlei Silva? Oh, holy condo. But he was first of all breaking the rope. And then stomping. And then stomping his head like a grape.

I couldn't believe it. Tomorrow, right? Condo. Condo. Vander Tamora, right? Kondo. Kondo. Vanderlei Silva against Yuki Kondo. That's right. Who's actually fighting in the Czech Republic. He did it to Tamora, too.

Didn't he do it to Tamora? Well, the Shooter Box team, Mauricio Shogun, who loved those soccer kicks, man. I mean, he pedaled kick this head. Remember Arona disfiguring Sakuraba's face? Looked like the Elephant Man, too? There were some violent endings. Well, the most violent, I think, is probably when Sakuraba fought Melvin Manhoef. That was horrendous.

Melvin was coming up in his prime, and Sakuraba was on the way down, and Melvin was arguably one of the scariest knockout artists of all time. Just unbelievably violent. Just took violence to a totally different level. Knocked out Mark Hunt. Mark Hunt. You know what I think? Mark had a double knockout there.

And you've got to pull it up to see if I'm right. I believe, if my mind serves me well. He was knocked out twice? No, he was knocked out. And when he fell down, he hit the cup. Also for Manhoef. And we in Holland, we all have the steel cups. And he hits it hard.

He falls down, you see his hat, boom, on the cup. And I think maybe that sealed the deal right there. Interesting. We'll find that. Find that young man. What a story, Mark Hunt. Well, now you've probably heard what he's doing with the law. But again, another guy. Well, let's explain that.

Oh, yeah, go ahead. Because he's got a lawsuit against the UFC because the UFC, they... He's saying that they knew... Here's a fight. Oh, hold on. Back it up a little. That, watch.

Right here. I hope I... He charges. Bam. Don't you see? Full under... Yeah, I need to hit him a bunch of times. It's likely he hips bumps him forward

with the steel cup. He hit him a bunch more times on the way down, too. Here you go, dunk. And Mark just charges out. Bam. You see? Yeah, yeah, he did. He looks like right into the steel cup, man.

And it's like he was sprawling almost. He pushed his hips forward. Wow. Yeah, he still is an animal, Manu. The only guy that I ever rolled with that wore one of those steel cups was Amir. Renovardi, he used to wear one of those steel cups was Amir. Renovardi, he used to wear one of those steel cups, and you'd get on top of him, mount you with that fucking steel cup. That's a

goddamn weapon. Press it into the thing. That's a horrendous place to be. He was the star of your stag. Huh? Yeah, he was. He was the star of your stag? No, he was the star of it. People don't understand. In half guard, if I sit in half guard, in somebody's half guard, right? And if I sit in it, I grab him by the head, I can literally bounce his own knee into his face.

That's a legal move in MMA. And it's a real easy thing to do. Imagine the knee is right over here. I grab the head. I just thrust my hips forward. His own knee will bash in his face. And I ask Big Joe McCarthy, he says, yeah, that's a legal move. I go, man, I haven't seen anybody do that.

Matt Littlen knocking himself up, but different ways. So you're pushing his head into his knee? No, I grab his head by the top, you know, so he cannot push me backwards. And then I drive my hips forward, and his own knee, because his leg is here over, his own knee sits here, I jam it into his own face. And he's going to stop my hip power, which is going to be very hard to do for him in that sort of position. Have you drilled that?

In my class. I teach it. Huh. And guys pull that off? Oh, it's a real easy thing. It's very hard for you to stop me. That's interesting. We can jump in the background so you feel like I can show it to you.

Isn't that funny when people learn things and you go, oh, well, there's that now. Right. You know, like for a long time, guys would go and they would go and throw underhooks on, like from the half guard. And then they would try to like snake up to your body and then work their way in. But then people started darsing people. Right. So then that underhook became like a real liability for those long arm dars guys. Yep.

And then it just sort of had a change, a change you know it had a people have to evolve i was like that we saw it in early days with the kickboxing thai books and robin deckers you know in the clinch pushing somebody away boom high kick and it went down and then you see everybody starts doing it and everybody knows it it doesn't work anymore and then he did he pushed away with the low kick and i go wow and i teach this a lot in my class, too, because if I push you, your balance shifts backwards so you don't flex your leg. That low kick doesn't need to be hard, trust me, because the muscle is relaxed. It goes straight through. So a little push while you kick is a very good thing to do. You look at the expeditious evolution of it.

When we go back, I remember doing voiceover for some Pancrase fights for Fight Network in Toronto and you know, back when you got, and you watched a sport under what was MMA rules and well, there's that, there's that, but it just didn't exist to them at the time in their the mindset or the the drilling, as you

say, and it's interesting when you look at now people who that's all they've trained in. Guys like, well, Cordy Garbrandt, for instance, and all these kids. T.J. Dillashaw, where I love watching the growth. There's only a certain amount of moves that you can do, right?

Like arm bars, everybody knows those. It's the way towards those. If you find a different way going to that certain arm bar, then you surprise somebody. And you see that happening a lot. Suddenly there's a triangle choke, a new triangle choke set up. Then everybody starts doing it, and then it's gone again.

But it's just about that. The move is there, but the set up is different. What about certain kicks, right? Like karate and taekwondo. But the same thing there. People thought, oh, that would never work. All of a sudden, everyone's, you know, for a while, the front kick to the face. Well, you know, you're seeing that with Wonderboy.

Yes. You know, Wonderboy is a perfect example of what I thought was going to be the next stage of evolution is these sport karate guys. The guys, you know, like Michael Venom Page. Yup. Machida also. Yeah, Raymond Daniels who went over to Glory. Love Daniels. And what these guys are doing is they're showing that if you have all those other skills, well, then those traditional martial arts techniques become very novel.

And people don't know what to do with them. Like with Wonderboy, when he starts stabbing people with that front leg side kick and then throws that front leg round kick, people don't know what to do with them. And he's also got that crazy style of leaning back and forth like a snake and popping back in. It's going to be very interesting, the rematch, though, because I think even though it was a draw, and I guess according to the scorecard it would be a draw, when you look at who did more damage, it's clearly Woodley. Woodley did way more damage. In two rounds, he had Wonderboy in some serious shit. And also, for whatever inexplicable reason, and he doesn't even know why I asked him about it after the fight, he didn't take him down after the first round. He was like i if you asked me right

now i have no idea why i didn't he's like i got 20 years of wrestling you would think i would use it yeah and he had so much success in the first round taking him down but then again he almost knocked him out in the fourth round too remember he stunned him in the fourth round you saw his eyes move yeah yeah it was um it was a pretty, it was an interesting fight because, you know, Wonderboy did regain some points and regain some ground, but he never really had Woodley in any real trouble. And I think that is always the ultimate point of fighting.

It's like, who puts the other person in grave danger? And clearly, Woodley put Wonderboy in grave danger. He had him stunned. He had him fucked up. He was beating him up. He cut danger. He had him stunned. He had him fucked up. He was beating him up. He cut him. He had him in a guillotine. It looked like his head was going to pop off.

He had him in far more danger. Yeah, the guillotine was something else. Oh, my God. It was crazy. It was crazy. He escaped. I mean, I just wonder how he holds his hands. You know, because there's some guys that are, there's different ways to hold your hands where you can really like accentuate the bone into the neck and really, there's

like little minute details in guillotines that you never know. That's the alpha male members. They will give you that answer for sure. Those guys are wicked ones. Yep. And of course, Marcelo Garcia. Garcia. You know, he's probably got one of the best guillotines I've ever seen in straight grappling

competition. Yep. You know, and then Cody McKenzie had that the best guillotines I've ever seen in straight grappling competition. And then Cody McKenzie had that fucking crazy guillotine where he'd push down on the side, and that's what John Jones used to get. That's Joe Candepre. Hey, over him during Pride days, remember, he had a slick guillotine. Oh, yeah. Tap Vitor. Vitor Belfort, right?

He's in my class like a while ago. This was in my old gym. And we've been working out and teaching my class. I said, hey, would you like to teach the guillotine to the guys? Yeah, sure. He said, yeah, put me in it first so I can feel how it is. But he went freaking 80%. And I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

I mean, that was a scary guillotine. So what's the key then? Why was it so scary? No, because he's got these long arms. Okay. You know, and they go around. And it's like the prayer guillotine. You know, he gets super jacked.

It's a blood choke. It becomes a blood choke as well. Instead of just crushing the windpipe. Yeah, he's super jacked. It's a blood choke. It becomes a blood choke as well instead of just crushing the windpipe. Yeah, he's so jacked. He's such a fucking giant dude, too, with those long-ass arms. You know, you should see him doing, like, lifting cars and all that stuff that he did and all that, and walking with, like, 150 kilos, you know, 75 kilos in each thing, and then running with it, you know, like a suitcase.

But, again, another guy represents redemption in the sport, and you hear, you know, like a suitcase. But again, another guy represents redemption in the sport. And you hear, you know, now what's going on with Ronda and everything. But even Mark Hunt, like there's MMA. You know, I spend a few years now doing boxing where one loss ruins your career, it seems, for whatever stupid reason. But in MMA, there are so many redemptors. Even Overeem has been up, down, up, down. There's still a bad narrative in boxing, unfortunately,

that someone who loses a fight doesn't come back and wins. I thought MMA was going to help that. I think for a bit it did. I mean, Bernard Hopkins had an Hall of Fame career after losing his first fight. So I don't understand that. Dan Gable, we were interviewing him, and he saw these records, and like with Randy Couture record and other records, and he goes like, these are

world champions? But we're talking to a guy who lost once in his life, you know, so he goes, oh I didn't know that. He was totally shocked by it. He said, well, many ways to win, many ways to lose, right? Yeah, way different world when people are throwing their punches and kicks and catching you with knees

when you're trying to take them down. And Mirko Krokop was the guy who told us in Japan that if you don't lose in MMA, you really haven't fought. I mean, he was trying to make the point of, you know, it's so tough and different and tough guys. It's going to happen, man. Well, it's also evolving. It's such a radical pace.

I mean, you're seeing all these new approaches constantly changing. So many great minds involved. And that's what I like. I mean, Firas Sah hobby and i mean a lot the list can go on but that's what to me that's what i've become now a bit more of a nerd because you call so many fights and you you try to have a life as well but i'm really now getting back into okay let's catch up and see what these different minds are saying well and you yourself sir even you know listening to this it's just always so cool to to hear different perspectives. Okay, what's going to work?

Yeah, I agree with that, too. I think that's super important for all of us. I think that's why BJ is going to do good. Really, I truly believe. I'm hoping. Because he changed camp. I think a talent like BJ in his training in Hawaii, he kind of dictates whatever he wants to do.

He's so talented. He schools people around. And that's why when you put people like that under pressure, they get tired because they never experienced that in the ring because he's so way ahead above everybody else. So if they want to do extra three rounds with him and he doesn't want to do it, he's going, I'm not going to do it.

I think it's a bad matchup. You can't pull that trick at Greg Winklejohn. And there he's got all these guys gunning for him. It's a legend. I mean, I can only imagine the sparring sessions they have going on. I think it's going to do really well for him. Now, his opponent, Rodriguez, is really good. It's a legend. I mean, I can only imagine the sparring sessions they have going on. I think it's going to do really well for him. Now, his opponent, yeah, Rodriguez, is really good.

Okay, but I— Because we've been in that conflict the whole time. Honestly, I mean, he's a Hall of Famer. He's done everything. We saw against Frankie Edgar. What is it? We talked about it on our podcast. The last win was Matt Hughes, 2010.

Do you—why do you think he's still fighting? Well, he probably feels like he didn't do it right. He probably feels like the fights he took with Frankie, where he had that really bizarre stand-up stance. That was the weirdest thing that the oldest guy I've ever seen. He decided that he was going to fight that way because it was more efficient and that it didn't use as much energy as, like, widening his stance. And I think a lot of his career he was concerned with losing his energy in the ring. A lot of his career he's worried about gassing out in the ring yeah a lot of his career he's

worried about gassing out so then he went with marv marinovich right so he does these two camps with marv marinovich at least two camps correct he did sean shirk and i think he did diego sanchez i know he did diego sanchez because i know also that steve maxwell was training diego sanchez got sanchez in incredible shape but that was bj in his prime. And when BJ wasn't tired, when he was in shape, and he was joking around about it, like, when I have a six-pack, you're fucked. Oh, man, he took him down. What was it?

He was just a different animal back then, but it was only sustainable for, like, a few fights. I think, like, BJ, for whatever reason, it was hard for him to get totally motivated to get into that kind of shape again. And when he described it, it sounded hellacious. Like, he couldn't hold his daughter, reason it was hard for him to get totally motivated to get into that kind of shape again and you know when he described it it sounded hellacious like he couldn't hold his daughter literally literally so tired after working out that he couldn't even hold his kid and they have a very specific

training philosophy too the marinoviches and uh in a lot of ways um uh some of the guys that uh like nick curse on who trains under his philosophy and speed of sport in California, they want strength and conditioning to be number one, priority number one. You already know how to fight. I love that. Yeah, and the idea is, like, you already know how to fight. So since you already know how to fight, you should just work on having the most incredible aerobic threshold. That goes back to Frank and-

Plyometrics. Tito Ortiz. Well, yeah, but even Frank with... Why am I... He's going to kill me. Maurice Smith, with their partnership in the beginning, that's what Frank was all about, was the cardio. The cardio was so important.

On the bus back when Tito lost to Frank, I was in the same bus going back to the airport, and Tito jumped next to me, and he starts asking me questions about stamina, because I always said, it's the most important thing. You can never have enough stamina. It's the most important. So he started asking drills and doing all these things and then he became that crazy psycho

cardio monster and he started beating everybody. He transferred that to Kendall Grove and a lot of the guys he trained under the Ultimate Fighter. Kendall came out of that show and that's what he told me. He's like, it's all cardio, man. Everything is about cardio. But again, cardio also, what about the nerves then, and how much panicking, and your emotions drain?

Like, what I'm saying is- It plays a factor in it, but the actual real cold, hard cardio plays a factor, too. Right. And it also plays a factor in your nerves. Yeah. Because if you know that you have a small gas tank, you start to get lit up. And especially when you walk through the ring, did I train hard enough? If you know that you can really go.

After a workout, I would do seven six-minute rounds in the Thai pads, full blast. That's like 42 minutes. But that was after a workout. But I knew that nobody did that. So I was not going to run out of gas because we had half-hour fights in Japan. But it's the only way to do it, constantly go hard. And I had guys coming who couldn't do the warm-up in my class. This is a 20-minute warm-up.

It's the Bas Rutte workout with the sprawls. And then the minutes, I fill them up with either push-ups or with the kettlebell swings. So it's 20 minutes straight. People come in who had a fight like in two weeks in Japan, and they couldn't do it. Man, I said, don't fight. He said, what do you mean? I said, this is the warm-up. We didn't even start now.

And not just to say they lost because of cardio over there, but how do you do this? I said, it's just baby steps. Just get yourself to the point where you can get through that entire warm-up, full clip, and then train hard. Just keep doing it. Yeah, just keep doing it. Who do you think is the best conditioned athlete right now in MMA?

What are names that come to mind? Velasquez right away, I would think, right, Kane? Yeah, he's a freak. He's a freak. I mean, there's a lot of really good guys now. Mighty Mouse is never tired. He's never tired. But he's also so efficient.

You could also say the same thing about Cody and Dominic. Yeah, I was going to say that was an amazing war for 25 minutes. No, you're right. There's a lot more. It's becoming a bigger and bigger factor. That's what I said in the opening. In the early days, it was only the WC guys because of the lighter guys, but now everybody. Well, the heavyweights, there's something came.

It frustrated me the most. Yeah. If a guy comes in with no cardio for three rounds, I go, are you serious? It's like bringing a half a can of paint. If you're a painter, you do the door half. Yeah, that's the only thing I have. It's the same thing. But you've got your job.

Well, Diaz, too, right? The Diaz boys. Nick and Nate have always, I mean, when you think of, wow, the only thing I have. It's the same thing. But you've got your job. Oh, Diaz too, right? The Diaz boys. Nick and Nate have always, I mean, when you think of, wow, the triathlons and everything. Do you know that he swam back from Alcatraz five times now? He's done it five times now. He corrected me. I said it on the podcast

twice. That's incredible, man. He corrected me and said five times. Like, what in the fuck, man? Is he coming back soon? He'll come back. I'll give him a world title fight or a bunch of money. Yeah, yeah. Look, what in the fuck, man? Is he coming back soon? He'll come back. He'll come back. He'll give him a world title fight or a bunch of money. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Look, I thought, like, do you know how crazy it would be if Conor fought Nick next? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, now you say something. You know? That's Nick, brother. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that.

You know, but they're already saying that Conor, that, you know, he shouldn't have fought Nate because Nate was too big for him. But Nate is a 155er, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a fight that's going to happen again if Conor stays the 155-pound champ. It's going to happen again. Oh, I 100% agree. Do you remember Diaz and Daly?

Oh, fuck yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. Yeah, we're talking about it on the way over. Yeah, sitting there, just calling him like twice. He was knocked down twice. He came back and stopped him with three seconds left. His recovery's always been fantastic.

That stamina. Yeah. What about the go-go platter and Gomi and then the freaking THC? Why did they test for that? Well, we don't want to get into that now, I'm sure. Why does the Nevada State Athletic Commission test for THC? No, but why is life test for everybody? It used to be illegal.

Listen, old my friend. You okay? They're saying now that they're thinking about calming down on that and then not even caring if people test positive. Well, I hope not. I hope so. Which would be a good thing because the way the levels show in your skin, the way it stays in your fat, like if you got high the night before a fight,

you're not going to feel it during the fight. You're just not. But it will show up. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah, but you'd have to really get fucked up and over. You'd probably get no sleep. You've got to be Joey Diaz on his podcast. I have not ever seen anybody. One of those gummy bears

was like 1,200. I think he ate eight. Wow. That's so insane. It's like that writer from the New York newspaper went to Denver and did a piece, and she ate a whole chocobo. I guess it was like eight different doses or how many different doses, and wrote about her paranoia. Yeah, you should be paranoid.

You're a little flesh bag on a planet. I had my dog one time. You're clinging to a planet, it's hurling through infinity. You should be nervous as fuck. Everywhere you go, a rock could fly out of the sky and kill you. I made some cookies.

This is eight, ten years back. And I crack one because they're heavy cookies. And while I'm eating, a little crumble falls on the ground and I see the dog right away running over. And I want to stop it. And I go, you know, let the dog relax. But the little tiny bit, right?

So I'm eating it. And I have to pick up something from a friend of mine who was like 20 minutes away. Here's somewhere in the valley. I go pick it up. I'm back in the car. And as soon as I'm in the car, I start driving. And it hits me. You know?

So I'm going to hit. And within two minutes, I get a phone call from my wife. What did you do to the dog? I remember. And my dog stands outside, staring outside for like two and a half hours. Wow. No movement. She's looking outside.

It was the funniest thing. I came home. She was just like catonic. Poor Luna's been high a few times. Luna doesn't like men, but oh, she made a connection with Mauro. That's a rather intimate one. She doesn't like men? For some reason, she'll go after you.

Wow. Kids and women are cool, but a guy, oh, the mailman, literally this is the dog that will go a full motor attack. And it's a little dog. It's 15 pounds. What kind of dog is it? It's like a Bichon Poodle. What a cutie. I love that dog.

Oh, that's hilarious. Boss, how's your arm? It looks like you're getting a lot of muscle back in your arm. You know, at the top, I'm getting it back, but you see below, there's still something to be done. I'm here with in the valley, there's a doctor now. He does these crazy injections also.

And it's caught. The nerve is caught somewhere. And I feel that. The nerve is caught? Caught, yeah. Impinged? Yeah, so what they say is if you take a fire,

a water hose, if you squeeze it, less water comes out. That's the same with a nerve. Less action comes out. And that, apparently, they made this special picture that they only could do

in Santa Monica. And they saw that it was blocked there. And apparently he can inject me there, and it will take the pressure off. And he believes that that's very possible it will come back then. Wow, interesting. Yeah, it's crazy because, you see, snapping my fingers is still very hard. But I couldn't do that for four years, not even snapping my fingers. So slowly but surely it works.

I just work out the arm and the shoulder. Shoulder comes back also a little bit. That's the thing that they say about nerves, right? That any kind of nerve damage takes a tremendous amount of time to heal because nerves, they grow back very, very slow. Very slow. You know, people, they don't understand. I always say it's like taking the spark plug out of a cylinder. That's your nerve.

Once the nerve is broke, you take that out, it's gone. And then the atrophy comes. Because people go like, how can you then be paralyzed? I say, what happens with people who break their back, right? I say, no more nerves going to the legs. You can't walk anymore. That's the same thing what I have right now. Only the nerve is still there. It's just pressured. I ran into some kid after a show the other day

and we were talking about neck injuries and jiu-jitsu, and he was asking me a question. He's like, my arm doesn't work under here, my tricep's starting to fade away. I'm like, dude, go to a doctor yesterday. You got to get an MRI. As soon as you start seeing atrophy and as soon as you start feeling numbness,

you got to get on it right away. Any impingement to your necklace? Because there are some ways that they can sort of relieve the pressure and spinal decompression and a bunch of different platelet-rich plasma-type injections, like rogenicine and stuff. are some ways that they can sort of relieve the pressure and spinal decompression and a bunch of different platelet-rich plasma-type injections, like Regenikine and stuff. But you've got to do something. You've got to do something quick, and you can't keep rolling.

All these guys, they want to keep going to jiu-jitsu, even when their back's fucked up like that, and then as you're rolling, you feel like, ah! You feel like that twinge. Yeah, shooting rods. Not a good thing. Doing real damage to yourself. You've got to be super careful with any kind of nerve injuries. Yeah, shooting planes. Not a good thing. Doing real damage to yourself. You've got to be super careful with any kind of nerve injuries. I waited too long.

That was the thing with me. I waited too long. I saw my arm slinking, and then I go, oh, I've got to go to the doctor. But I was already, I should have gone faster. Yeah. As soon as I realized I couldn't. Is it the pride?

Why didn't you go sooner? I don't know. I thought it was going to fix itself. I've been this indestructible guy for my whole life. I could do anything. I fell from windows and from roofs and never had a thing, you know? I mean, I feel from a roof, I fell on my face on the stairs.

And all my teeth stayed in. It's the craziest thing. You can still tell by my front teeth I have something. But I mean, how did my teeth not come out? I mean, that was quite a fall. You fell on your face from a roof? You know what happened? You know those, how did my teeth not come out? I mean, that was quite a fall. You fell on your face from a roof? You know what happened? You know how you call those letters, you know, the V-pointed ones?

A-frame. I'm very smart, of course. It stands like this, and I'm standing it up, and I'm pushing something. And of course, when I push, the letter stands like this. I push myself away, and I'm falling all the way down. Oh, no! And I see a slow motion coming because one of those stance things, I go like, oh, I'm going to fall on it.

I realize I'm going to fall. It's got slow motion, so I stick my arms out. I think I'm good, but it was longer than my arms were. Oh, Jesus Christ. So I slam my face straight on that thing. Wow, wow. And I wasn't even dazed. I go like, oh, and very gentle, I went to my mouth. I go, please be in it, you to my mouth I go please be in it

you know and all my teeth were in it no tooth fairy for you that's insane it's insane right that would have killed 80% of the population you walk away

with no loose teeth that's fucking hilarious man that's hilarious yeah so in all the times when you guys were working in Pride did you see like

when they were doing the giving guys big bags of cash were you guys are working in Pride, did you see when they were giving guys big bags of cash? Were you guys there for all of that stuff? I got those. We got those big bags because it's a commentator. The envelope was a little lighter. Crispy, you know?

A little lighter. Tell them about the first time and what you were worried about. When you went to the bank. No, no. No, the first time I got paid. The first night. Bushido, you had to come and tell me, hey, this is how it's going to go, bro. This is how it's going to go because they're always just like when you go to the bank,

rob a bank, right? They're perfectly packed, you know, crisp notes. I mean, it looks like a Monopoly money. It really did. It was crisp $100 American bills. I was living in Canada at the time. He was afraid. I had to actually, I crumpled it up, because when I brought brand new bills, I mean, obviously

they could tell it wasn't counterfeit, but they'd always look and go, what is this? I'm like, that's literally every show, brand new $100 American bills. It's always that in the back of your head, you go like. I remember Phil Brody the one time. If I wore only this one with a few guns. People, I saw fighters. Because they were paying all the fighters. They were all the fighters.

Hold on, hold on. They were walking. And talk over each other. It's okay. Yeah, sorry. So's okay. It's lit. Sorry. So go ahead. What? Every fighter,

like they say, okay, from 10 a.m. tomorrow morning, you can come and pick up your fight. There was only one room and every single fighter would go there. Even guys like Miracle Krokop,

who I know made like two million bucks or something. They made a lot of money at the time, you know, and they would go in there. So it's in cash? They gave him two million dollars

in cash? Oh, I guess. They gave everybody cash. I remember. They gave him cash as well and I always thought, man guess. They gave everybody cash. So I assume they gave him cash as well. And I always thought, man. But then again, if the Yakuza's involved, you maybe don't want to do that, right?

Yeah, you definitely don't want to give the Yakuza. You're only allowed to bring $10,000 in. Remember, they were telling family members, here's your stacks, here's your stacks. Oh, yeah, a marqueur. I mean, everybody on our team had to hold $10,000. He, $10,000. Because you can't bring more than $10,000.

He took one bill off. So it was less than $10,000. Jesus Christ. We all had the rolls in so it was less than $10,000. Jesus Christ. We all had the rolls in Roppongi. That is so crazy. Yeah, that was wild. But it looked nice.

It looked cool when you came back. You felt good. You felt like a man. You felt like I did something. Like a criminal without being a criminal. The big roll. If Mirko actually got $2 million in cash from the heavyweight Grand Prix and then put that in a suitcase and went back to Croatia.

That's one of the most gangster fucking things I've ever heard in my life. We should have asked him. I mean, that's like a movie. We should have get him on the show. That's a scene in a movie. It's a movie.

You beat the fuck out of everybody. A little tightest case. And you win that sperm tournament. Remember those sperm posters? Oh, yeah. They really win posters. It's a fucking poster. It was awesome. It's one of the posters I feel bad I got rid of. I had that poster back then. Oh, yeah. They really went and posted it. It's a fucking poster. It was awesome.

It's one of the posters I feel bad I got rid of. I had that poster back then. Oh, T-shirts. Pride or Pluck. Remember that?

Pride or Pluck. What does that mean? Nobody knew. What about the one line said, there's no such thing as doing as usual.

There's no such thing as doing things such as usual. Holt bought that. He said, I got to get that t-shirt. That is the dumbest t-shirt I've ever seen. Nobody's going to get it. Remember the Grand Prix poster with the woman breastfeeding the baby? They were like, what the heck is going on here?

I have a Waleed Ismail t-shirt from like 1998, and it says, don't be coward, don't run off the fight. That's what it says on it. I know, at the time, it was a Brazilian guy. He said, he had t-shirts made, and he showed me, and it was a direct translation from Brazil, born for a fight. Born for a fight.

He had 400. I go, good luck with that, buddy. That's awesome. Born for a fight. Born for a fight. I had 400. I go, good luck with that, buddy. That's awesome. Oh, that's hilarious. Born for a fight. Born for a fight. Some brutal miscalculations and translations. Valide was hilarious.

I remember he was telling a story, and then I realized what I did, because this is kind of, you know, I thought it was funny. After my Rentalman fight, my face was bashed in, right? So I blew my nose, of course, once I was in the dressing room because then I could do it.

I couldn't do it before. So needless to say, my eyes blew up and they were closed. I couldn't almost see anything anymore. We all wanted to go out. And they go, Valid's there. And he goes, man, what are you going to do? I said, give me one second. I had a doctor with me.

I said, give me the syringe with the whitest gouge. So I stab it in my eye and I start sucking the blood out of both eyes. Oh had a doctor with me. I said, give me the syringe with the whitest gouge. You know, so I stab it in my eye and I start sucking the blood out of both eyes. Oh, Jesus, Boss Fruit. Yeah, but that's when I heard Valit. He told that story and he goes, and then this guy stabs him in the eye and starts sucking it out.

He puts some shades on like the freaking Terminator and he says, come on, let's go party. I always become German when they do my accent. Come on, let's go party. I always become German when they do my accent. Come on, let's go party. And I go, and when I heard that, I go, yeah. Now you see it. When you go back in time,

you go, yeah, that was maybe a weird thing to do. So you stuck them in your eyelids? Where did you stick the needles? Underneath the bags. And I tried to find, you pull, there's nothing coming out, just have a little further and suddenly you get blood. When you do blood, you just start pulling, you know, and then I did the other

eye and I could see again. Jesus fucking Christ. He is the Terminator. That is so ridiculous. That is, how many people have done that? That's a super rare move. You stick a fucking needle

into the bag under your eye and suck blood out of it. I'd say you're in a very rare company. You know, try to stitch yourself up with normal needles. I did that as well. I put a video out there a long time ago. My wife in the beginning said, don't put a video out there. Oh, I remember that. You were with your daughters and you were stitching yourself up.

My daughter's filming. The other one is playing music on the pan flute. The dog is walking over my leg while I'm stitching myself up. That's super, super antiseptic. Oh, you see, this is the start. Oh, you're far too fast. What was that cut from? You know, and people won't believe it.

At the time, I drank non-alcoholic beer. And I walk outside and I grab a six-pack of Beck's non-alcoholic beer. I walk back and the six-pack breaks. The bottles hit the ground and it shoots against my leg. And I walk inside and I go, man, this hurts, right? This is weird. And then I walk a few steps. I go, man, this is crazy.

So I pull my pants down and I saw that cut. A piece of glass was still in it. Wow. So I had to pull it out. And why did you not go to an actual doctor? Okay, because my wife was in Holland, and the last time I did that, I was, I over-trained in the sun

for a promotion for the body action system. And I had to go to the hospital because I was 93 degrees. My body, I couldn't hold anything anymore. Everything started cramping. It was the weirdest thing. So this was like when you were filming that commercial? No, I did a workout, a video workout.

I did the whole workout at noon in the sun on the top. And I wanted to look good on the camera, so I was hitting the thing as hard as I could. And then, of course, I took all potassium. I tried everything because I knew this was going to happen. But still, I started cramping crazy. So I went to the hospital. They put like two bags in me.

Then they put another two bags in me. And the bags are empty. And we've been there for a long time. I have my kids with me because my wife is in Holland. So they're there with me. And it's 4 o'clock in the morning now. And they still don't come back. And it's already like an hour and a half.

And I've been asking them. And I get angry. So I say, you know what, let's go, girls. What you never should do is pull it out yourself. If you do that, you need to put pressure on there. Now I know why that is, because I sprayed the whole room full with blood. Shh!

You know? So I go, oh! And I had the whole lump here on it. So then my daughter said, hold your finger on the other one, and I pulled it out to say, and now we gotta run. So we run out of the hospital, and we go back home. You ran, you just escaped the hospital? Escaped the other one. I pulled it out. I said, and now we got to run. So we run out of the hospital and we go back home. You just escaped the hospital?

Escaped the hospital because I was dehydrated. So then my wife is gone again and this thing happens and she already didn't like it that something crazy happened the first time. So I go, you know what? I'm not going to go to the hospital. I'm going to be there again. It's going to become this big story. I'm just going to stitch it myself.

So I asked the girls to find a needle. I tried to bend one first like they do, but it broke. And I asked the girls to find a needle. I tried to bend one first like they do, but it broke. And I go, oh no, and then we found one more left and they're really not sharp. You got to really push in order to get it in there. But it worked. It worked out perfectly. I cleaned everything. I cleaned the rope

with alcohol swipes, all that stuff. And then I started stitching it. And well, not much boss can do. And my daughter, I go like, I say, oh, just like Rambo, I said. And she goes, who is Rambo, daddy? Did he do it, too? I say, yeah, yeah, he did it, too. But who is she?

Oh, so he's an actor. He's, oh, it was a movie. I go, yeah, it was in the movie. So he did not do it for real. Maybe you should not do it. Yeah, there's not a lot of people who stitch themselves up either. If you get a first aid kit with needles, they'll have a needle. Because if you have one of those needles, the little round ones, the hooks, it's an easy thing.

You go, bloop, it goes in really fast. But you slip off because the hardest thing is to go in. So what you need to do when you have the cut, like, for instance, if the one side, here's the cut and here, right? You have to put your finger underneath, so make your finger underneath, and then you have to stab the needle there because otherwise, every time what happens is this, it slips off.

It doesn't go in. So I had to put my finger underneath. Going out was easier. So once you're from the inside going out, that was easier to do. But the going in part, that was hard because it kept slipping and it was not a really sharp knee. Wow. Yeah, that seems like a lot of work.

Yeah, but it's better going to the hospital for four hours, right? Yeah, have you ever crazy glued something? Crazy glue to cut? Oh, all my students, yeah, a lot of times. I got to go to the doctor. No, you don't. Come here. Well, crazy glue really works. Oh, it's the doctor. No, you don't. Come here. More crazy glue.

Really works. Oh, it's the best. Yeah. Yeah. As long as your finger doesn't get stuck on the wound as you're applying it. Oh, who said that? Somebody did that for fun with their friends with his mouth. Oh, that's great. What a good friend.

Oh, Jesus. You can get your lips ripped apart. Scar tissue all over your lips. You know what? You hear the dumbest thing that I've ever seen? your lips ripped apart. Oh, man. Scar tissue all over your lips. You know what?

You know what was the dumbest thing that I've ever seen? It was a guy in Holland. They challenged him to put a pool ball into his mouth. Oh, fuck. So once it was in, he did get it in.

He couldn't get it out. They had to break his teeth out in order to get him out. Yeah. He was like... He almost couldn't breathe because the freaking ball was in his mouth.

Oh, my God. Let's take your ball friction to the next level, all right? Jesus Christ. Jesus fucking Christ. They had to break his teeth. They had to break his teeth out to know what to get it out. Oh, my God.

What a fucking retard. Yeah. That's such a stupid move. Oh, my God. Can you do it? Yeah. What are you, fucking three? Yeah. You're not a three-year-old. What are you, fucking three? Yeah.

You're not a three-year-old. Don't put that ball in your mouth. It's probably with alcohol. Oh, you can't do it. Oh, no? You watch me. Of course. That is a problem.

Yeah. Wow. Goddamn alcohol. So what is going on with Inside MMA? It just stopped. They just stopped, huh? How long did you guys do it for? Nine years. You did nine years. I did, I think,

nine shows. If I made that quota. Nine years. It was one of the most respected, independent MMA shows on TV. I loved it. It was really good. I would have loved to have a little bit more heads up.

But you know, when there's a problem... Time slot sucked. That was the thing. At the end, to go 9.30 Pacific time, that's on a Friday night. That's the East Coast. You shut everything down.

It was the most DVR'd show they set. Yeah, well, I'm sure. But people like to watch things when they're current, too. They'd like to have it at 6 p.m. on a weeknight. That's what we've been saying all along. Weeknights are where you want to be. To be on a Friday

night, like, oof. Everybody's gone. Yeah, they go out. It was a good show, though, man. It was a fun show. We had a good run, you know? And we're back together. The band is back together. Oh, yeah, we're doing our audio version of Inside MMA, I guess, although we talk other combat sports as well.

Mondays we drop the Combat Sports Carousel, Bazzito. That's what it is? Yeah, and then we do Rutan and Ranallo, which is more us just riffing on pop culture events and try to add some positivity, try to find some good news stories to share in this deeply divided world of ours. So, yeah, we just enjoy working with each other, and it's been a blessing to be reunited with the man here.

You're a busy dude, man. Yeah. Are you still doing boxing commentary as well? Yeah, I'm actually leaving. So you're doing WWE, boxing, and two podcasts. And the podcast. And, well, maybe not so much any longer, although glory will always remain very near and dear to me.

But timing, and they were upset that I didn't go to Germany because I had a boxing event that night, and Showtime is first priority. So we'll see. But yeah, I'm doing a championship doubleheader on Saturday at Barclays on Showtime where a unification fight, which I think this year in boxing, because not a great year last year for the sweet science, and we're going to try to hopefully see more of the best fighting the best finally. And I think, again, people can say what they want about MMA matchmaking

and everything else, but the one thing I've always liked about MMA, eventually you will see the best fight the best, and in boxing the politics and the money kept that from happening. Well, that was always the thing that kept Fedor out of the UFC. They wanted his organization. Yeah, they wanted co-promotion. Well, we see how it helped strike. I mean, I think everyone knows this by now.

That was the deal that broke the proverbial camel's back with Strikeforce in Showtime. It was Fedor, after he lost,, wanted to re-sign Fedor. At that amount of money, Showtime boss at the time, Ken Hirschman, said, you know, we need Fedor or we're not going to renew the deal. And Strikeforce's owners, the Sharks at the time with Coker, they wanted out. So that kind of set the ball in motion, I think. Because I thought, and I think it would have still been very healthy for the sport. I thought Strikeforce and the UFC, man, that was some good shows.

And Strikeforce, as we know, look what the alum have done in the UFC. Amazing organization, man. Yeah, between Strikeforce and WEC, I mean, there's been quite a few champions that have come from both those organizations. And that was a smart move by the UFC to do what they did to make sure they got them. Yeah, by both of them. Exactly. Yeah, it was a very smart move. Yep.

But there is something to be said for competition, for sure. And I'm really, first of all, I'm glad there's other combat sports that are getting more and more popular, like Bellator kickboxing, like Glory kickboxing. Well, your support of Glory is very, very uh very pretty we know but you you've you know you help push that needle as well my man and it's i'm glad because i think for me bud calling all this combat sports that we've called in this society in the 21st century kickboxing at the highest level i i pick it over everything it's one of the most exciting sports in the world for sure without a doubt and one of the things about Glory is that even though it's an organization

that maybe a lot of people have not totally become aware of, there's world-class, world-championship level talent. The talent is not at a low level at all. When you've got guys like Niki Holtzkin, there's so much good talent. But it again comes, okay, I guess I'll ask you, sir. Yeah. Why do you think it, everyone says we need American stars, just like with you, you know, everything.

Why do you think Laurie is not making a bigger imprint right now in America? It's a good question. I wish I had the answer. Because there's a lot of combat spots already. I mean, look at the UFC, how many shows they got. Sure. That's just the UFC. So if you look at all the other ones, people don't have time.

I understand that, and I think that's also very valiant, but I mean, to me, nothing drives me more insane than hearing MMA fans boo an incredible ground game or two athletes. So I'm just saying, hey, if there's that segment, there is this thing called going kickboxing. It's on

UFC Fight Pass 2 now. It's just, I'm just a little surprised and disappointed that it hasn't gotten a little more traction because these guys deserve it, man. Yeah, it's weird. It's weird. I think Boss nailed it, though. I think there's too much to watch already.

Well, look, we do this for a living, and I don't know, you watch everything. I can't keep up anymore when I'm on the road doing WWE. And he's single. And he's single. And I'm a single man, yeah. I'll'll watch i have to tape everything just to fast forward and and like you say to save time joe it's it's you know i can't don't dedicate six hours because i only got two or three and i still want to follow and cover and yeah and then if you want

to follow muay thai good luck with all that with all that as well yeah i mean there's there's too many fights too much's too much. You're right. Muay Thai is the hardest thing to watch in terms of, like, get it live on television, pay-per-view. I mean, there's some world-class fights that are going on right now, and a lot of times there's no way to get to them. I saw you at the Muay Thai Premier League, remember? Yeah, I've been there. Yeah, sure.

Again, Ernesto Hoos was there, all these Nikki goes, okay, but boom, still owe me money, bro. Well, do they? Of course. So many organizations owe me money, bro. Well, do they? Of course. So many organizations owe me money, my man. That's too bad. That was a good organization. They put together a good event, rather. They put together a great event.

And I think, and Bukal was there, remember? Bukal, yes, exactly. I think the world-class Muay Thai and world-class kickboxing are greatly, greatly underappreciated. I think Fight Pass, I mean, the ESPN deal, I think, has helped a little bit, and of course, being on Fight Pass, I hope, is also, I mean, when I was doing the shows and keeping track of social media,

you know, there is growth. It's not, I don't think, stagnated by any stretch of the imagination, but again, it's, in Europe, it is popular. Very good ratings, right? In the Netherlands. Why not an Ultimate Fighter kind of show for kickboxing? I don't think anybody gives a fuck about those shows anymore. That's part of the problem.

I think people have seen too much reality TV. I think the novelty of it all wore off. I think when Forrest Griffin and Stephen you know, that, yeah, and Stephen Bonner went to war in season one. And that whole cast with Kenny Florian, Diego Sanchez, and it just, it was something special. But then that was also before, like, the Real Housewives and a million different fucking shows. But isn't that Hollywood? Isn't that TV in general? Like, I remember who wants to be a millionaire when the, was on one night, 25, 30 million, then, okay, two nights, three nights.

It's like everything else we do in life when it's good or when it's successful let's keep going let's keep going until they run it into the ground yeah and it's also there's style there's trends people just get it you know they're excited about certain trends and then they get bored with certain trends and i think reality shows in general i think it's hard for people to get excited about a new one so if you had a new one it's just about a bunch of kickboxers, it's almost got to be something more. It would be something for either a fight pass or Netflix. You know, where you can watch it in one time.

I think Netflix is the way to go nowadays because you decide when you want to watch the show. A lot of streaming services, right? Not just Netflix. I don't know. You've got Amazon. You've got Amazon. Oh, boy, here I enjoy your special on Netflix as well.

Thank you. But that's with everything, right? And that's why, to me, kickboxing or even MMA, you can go on your phone right away. Here's, okay, I got three minutes. Boom, what a fight. Great stuff. Okay, I'm done. It's digestible in those tiny morsels.

But how do you monetize it? How do you build an audience that's consistent? Well, I think it's going to be a slow build. It's not going to be like the UFC, which kind of exploded from the ultimate fighter. Most sports don't explode like that. They take a long time and several generations to build up. MMA was so unusual in that the excitement level from watching a high-level fight was irrefutable to the point where when people would watch fights on TV,

they'd be so crazy and so exciting that it was almost like undeniable. You had to watch it. There's just too many people watching. Can't take your eyes off it. That's the difference between... I think kickboxing, it's just the gloves are bigger. You know, they break.

Do whatever make gloves. Yeah. I've been saying that for a long time. John Wayne Parham's been doing that. Yeah, John Wayne. Yeah, he does cage Muay Thai. Get it here. Yeah, that's not a bad with M&M gloves. Yeah. I've been saying that for a long time. John Wayne Parm's been doing that. Yeah, yeah. John Wayne, yeah. He does cage Muay Thai. Get it here. Yeah.

That's not a bad idea. That's a good idea. But then, you know, you see it in a cage. Like, well, why can't he take them down? Or why can't he chuck them? Always something. Why can't he do a flying armbar? With troglodytes.

Yeah. Yeah, that's fun. We can do a lot of things. Yeah. I mean, I think the sport is still in its growing phases. I think as far as the talent level, you're definitely seeing what's going on in women's MMA. Women's MMA is changing pretty radically and quickly. Yeah, we saw that now, right?

And the ratings, the numbers are, I mean, look at Watterson and Paige Van Zandt for a variety of reasons. Again, it's weird how our society we're fixated it you know the good-looking people who can fight are getting these huge numbers where should it just be in this sport okay you're a fighter you're a talented fighter and i know for some but it just seems like america especially is about the cosmetics right well with sorta but i don't know if that's totally fair because i think I think what we have is we have this giant pool of hardcore fans, right? Yep. Who want to watch Tyron Woodley versus Wonderboy 2.

People want to watch just really good fights. Exactly. There's that. But in order to make the really big money, you've got to go outside of those folks. Casual. And, yeah, get that casual fan and also generate interest in 100% of the hardcore fans. Because there's some hardcore fans that quite honestly will look at a fight and go, you know, I don't really give a fuck about that fight.

Just for whatever reason, that fight's not my fight. I don't want to watch it. And so if that's a big pay-per-view night for the UFC, there's a certain percentage of even the hardcore fans that'll say, you know what, I feel better saving my 60 bucks, and then I'll find out an hour later who won anyway. And unfortunately, most of the time before McGregor came,

it's always the lighter weight classes. And that's a shame. Is the roster too big, you think, for the UFC in that respect? Because even as we say, we cover this, we hardcore it. There's a lot of fighters. I'm like, whoa, why? Okay, this guy's got to fill out the cards. I'm just wondering, for a guy who covers it, does it, works for the company,

do you think the roster is too big or you're happy with the way it is now in terms of fights? I don't make fights. So if I said that, I would really have to do research before I say if the roster's too big. But if they don't fight in this roster, the question then becomes, where do they fight? Because they have to get fights somewhere. And would it be better for some of these lighter, not lighter, but lighter inexperienced guys, like a Mickey Gall, for instance, who just right away now is fighting in the UFC. Beat Sage Northcutt.

So, holy shit, now the kid's a star. Right? He beats up CM Punk. He's great behind the microphone. He is a star. Great behind the microphone. Good looking kid. Smart. But he's also only a. He is a star. Great behind the microphone. Good looking kid. Smart.

But he's also only a couple fights into his career. Sure. If you were his manager and you cared about him a lot and you were saying, look, kid, you're really good. You've got real potential. But you need to get some seasoning. And you need to get some seasoning against commensurate talent. You want to fight guys that offer a threat but that you can beat. And you want to build your way up

to a guy like Damian Maia. But if you fight Damian Maia today, you're probably going to get fucking smushed. Yeah, he's going to get smushed. It's not good. And you might get smushed in a way that might destroy your confidence for fucking years. But then, I guess there's feeder leagues, right?

Access TV has done a good job, RFA, all these other groups. I'm wondering, the UFC, if they want to even invest in something like that. Well, they made a show out of it now looking for a fight, so I don't think they will do that. But I always thought that they should do an amateur division. Or something, right? Like a UFC amateur division.

Because he's got a great point. Because you're right, Mickey Gall, I think, has potential to be a superstar. But if you're already... He already beat Sage Northcutt. He already beat Sage Northcutt. He already beat Sage Northcutt. Yeah, so if he beats Sage Northcutt, who's he going to fight next? He's going to maybe buy him Barbarina. Yeah, yeah, right.

If he beats him. Barbarina. If he fights and keeps winning, he's not too far out of a top 20 ranking, right? Right. And then all of a sudden, you're in the wolves' den. Yeah. I mean, maybe he's cool with that. Maybe, look, Jon Jones did it.

Yeah. Yeah. But how many fucking people are Jon Jones? Yeah. No, you're right. When you get that kind of talent, like that's a, Jon Jones is a real special talent. That's really, it's undeniable. Yeah.

That's what I always say. It's scary. You see that takedown that he hit on Dan Henderson, that pure grappling match? Oh, everybody on Cormier. It's fucking sensational. I mean, it's, it's. Yeah. Yeah, he can do anything.

That's what I like. He can submit you. He can knock you out. It's, it's just an, he really thinks about his fighting. Yeah, he's trying to be coordinated for what I like. He can submit you. He can knock you out It's it's just an he really thinks about fighting the coordinator that size under pressure. He's a fucking gem Under pressure. He just rise to your belfort Toronto right was that what he was his arm is hyper extended Yeah, Vitor caught him in a beautiful arm bar perfect arm bar from the guard had a fully locked out It looked like it looked like it was over was over

But didn't panic and And John just wouldn't tap, let his elbow get fucked up, and then went on to submit Vitor. It's crazy. Well, you know, once you're a fighter and you slap on something and you think you got it and you put all your effort in it and then you lose it, it does a little bit

to some fighters to their mental state. They get depressed and then when you turn it up, you know, that's the moment you want to start turning it up because then you destroy the fighter, and then you can actually go for a submission. So I think that's what happened there. That was a unique fight, too, in that Jon Jones dropped Vitor

with a front leg sidekick to the body. I was like, that is a great technique for him because he's so long. You know, when you're seeing the way Wonderboy uses it and some other folks use it, and Sage Northcutt has a really good one as well. But you think those oblique kicks, I have a feeling somebody's going to get hurt,

and they're going to take him out. You don't think so? From the knees? Yeah, because it looks so dangerous, and especially a guy like Jones again, because he's got so much power on top of it. If by any chance the guy just walks backwards and his leg is stretched and he gets hit at that moment.

Did Silva use him on Maya? There was a fight. I thought it would involve Silva where I thought the same thing like this is going to end in a serious knee injury. He would do front leg side kicks to the knees. He would just hit you. Not the knee. He would hit you right above the knee and it just

hyperextends your knee. It's a weird thing because it's very effective. So how come you're allowed to round kick the outside of the knee, which everybody does? Why are you allowed to do that when you're not allowed to hyperextend? I mean, if you're not there when it happens, you don't get hit. Are you a fan? You know what I mean? It's one of those things.

It's like, it is a very effective technique. Holly Holm uses it quite a bit. You know, she used it on Ronda quite a bit in that fight. The low, low kick, I call it. The low, low kick on the calf. And who was it who broke his fibula? What fight was that? Pretty recent, like three months ago or something. Somebody broke his fibula because he got kicked in the calf,

and they stopped the fight. I'm thinking of it. He couldn't walk anymore. It wasn't the UFC. Other organization, huh? Yeah, I mean, it definitely happens. What about knees to the head of a grounded opponent, Joe? Are you a fan?

Or do you think it should be allowed? This is what I think. I mean, I think that if someone is shooting for a takedown, here's a question. So, like, say if a guy is in the process of a double leg and someone's knee touches the ground. The guy is shooting for that double leg,'s knee touches the ground, the guy shooting for that double leg, the knee touches the ground, and as his knee touches the ground, the opponent is already launching into a knee, a counter knee, which is the perfect technique for that position, right?

What happens there? Should be left. Is that legal? It should be. It should be. If someone shoots a total power double on you, and as they're sliding in, their knee is hitting the ground, and you catch them with a knee and put them out. Is that a knee to a grounded opponent?

I mean, how does that work? Well, he slipped in. I would say that's the same as I hit you, but you turn your head at the moment I hit you and I hit the back of your head. Right. And they have altered it, though, right? The guys who were gaming the system, remember,

when the guys, they just put the hand, they have changed that, right? Yeah, that was a stupid rule. But it's also like there was a controversial fight really recently with Oliveras and Tim Means. And Tim Means and Mark Ratner, I asked him when it was a fight. He's only on one point, that one point being one knee. I guess foot wasn't even on the ground.

And his other foot was up. So I'm like, is that legal? It was real confusing to me. And then Mark Ratner said it should be legal. And I'm like, okay, well, it's one point. Is it legal? And then John McCarthy said, no. He said it's not a point.

He said that expression that everybody uses, three points, more than three points, like two feet and a hand, it's illegal to hit the person when they're down. But he says it's the bottom of your feet. Anytime it's not the bottom of your feet, you're a grounded opponent. So even if you have one knee on the ground and no feet, like you're just balanced on a knee moving towards, you're still a grounded opponent. Wow. Yeah, which is weird, right?

That's weird. I'm not sure if I agree with that. No, I don't either. And knees to the opponent on the ground, I always... Skyscraper knees. I think it's better than elbows. And nowadays, lately, we see some knockouts with elbows, but there's a lot of cuts. And you don't have to—with the knee, a knee will knock you out.

So that's why I said it's an easy defense. Once you know it's going to be coming there, it's a bigger thing. You can just hold the thigh, I mean, but it's—I prefer it over elbows. Do you remember when Coleman used it in Pride? From the north-south position? Yeah, those just, I mean, from sky

high, just right to the concussions. One of a wrestler's best moves. Because a wrestler, if you're trying to shoot on them and they sprawl and they're on top, they have those knees right there. Boom, boom. It's a tremendous technique.

For wrestlers, headbutts. Remember Coleman? That was him all the way in the beginning. Yeah. Holding the arms and then just headbutting him. He did it to Maurice. The Maurice Smith, Mark Coleman fight was when headbutts were allowed. People forget.

Headbutts were nuts. But is it so nuts? Why can't you head butt? How come you can use your elbow but you can't head butt? Why can't you head butt? The art of nine limbs. The seven limbs. I mean, if you can cut someone with elbows, you're slashing across their face with elbows.

Why can't you head butt? Is it a concussion thing? I don't know, but it's up to you. Right? I mean, it seems like if we're talking about the art of actual fighting, we know that a headbutt is a real martial arts technique. Yeah. You know, I know why that is. And it was one of the reasons I would headbutt somebody if there was a lot of audience when I was fighting at the club. If I had to fight. I almost never fought there because I just talked my way out of it.

You know, I would tell the people, hey, there's nothing going on. But if I did, I used it on purpose, headbutts, because they look really insane. And I would make sure that all the people who are watching, that they would understand that we can accept that kind of behavior there. And a headbutt, that will freak people out. And I truly believe that it's for the sport to make the sport more attractive. Take the headbutts out. Once a normal person watches a fight like Mark Coleman start headbutting somebody into oblivion, you know they're going to go, is this a sport?

You're right. I mean, it looks really bad. It looks terrible. Yeah, so does soccer kicks. I was going to say, you know, so does ground and pound for that matter. Well, a lot of boxing people had a real hard time with people being on the ground and getting hammer-fisted in the head. Big problem. Roger Huerta, remember, at the one championship?

That was scary. I mean, I don't know why the referee didn't stop that. Why he let him kick. I mean, it was obvious. He was in La La Land. He was in La La Land, and he got hit with a horrible soccer kick, and his whole body went flying. And he was just dead out cold. Could have killed him.

Yeah. Well, and, you know, Roger's a guy that should have been a superstar. Oh, man. Cover of Sports Illustrated. But there's the curse. You see? Oh, yeah, the SI curse. The Sports Illustrated curse.

He fell right into it. He's on the cover. Who else got that curse? So many. Athletes. Yeah, usually there was a whole thing of the Madden curse too. Oh, look it up. Yeah, people were on covers and they all just unloose the next time.

Well, that's also what they said about the UFC game cover, right? Right, that's right. Oh, yeah, whoever gets on it. And the Madden, that's exactly it. It is weird, right? That's crazy. That's crazy. The Sports Illustrated cover jinx is an urban legend that states that individuals and teams

who appear on the cover of Sports Illustrated magazine will subsequently be jinxed. Does it say anything in terms of actual results? Let's see how many get caught. Look, there's tons. Oh, Jesus Christ. There's so many. Oh, my God.

The list is insane. Folks, I couldn't even read this list. This list is fucking insane. It's like everybody who gets on it thinks it's insane. Yeah, you don't even read this list. This list is fucking insane. It's like everybody who gets on that thing. You don't want to be on it. Did McGregor go on it? I believe he did. Was that before the fight?

Before the Nick Diaz fight. Yeah, Conor McGregor, March 5th, 2016. Holy shit. There you go. That's side jinx. He was scheduled to fight Rafael Dos Anjos, and then Dos Anjos fell apart with a broken foot. Dos Anjos is going up to welterweight.

Right. That's interesting. Very interesting. I'd like to see how he feels good without cutting so much weight. He's a big fella. I think that's for everybody, right? Everybody when they fight one up, they fight so much better. But then does everyone do that?

I think, yeah, for a lot of reasons, you should fight closer to a natural weight. Do you think there's a solution? Do you think there's a way that they can make guys weigh their natural weight? Like test them the same way they test for, like, drugs? Test them for hydration? Like show up. Hey, Mauro, we're going to just put you on a scale today and find out what you actually weigh. Mauro, you fight 155.

You weigh 186. What the fuck's going on, dude? You know, like, look, man, get in shape. Get in shape and tell us when you're ready and what you actually weigh. Tomorrow, you fight 155, you weigh 186. What the fuck's going on, dude? You know, like, look, man, get in shape, get in shape, and tell us when you're ready and what you actually weigh. And so then when you find out that the guy's in shape and you're actually, you go, you're in shape, you're ready, okay? Okay, well, it says here you weigh 175. There you go.

Okay, now we're going to check your hydration levels. Oh, well, you're dehydrated, though. Okay. We're going to get you to a normal hydration level. This is our, now you're healthy, you're 179. Okay, this is what you weigh. You weigh 180. You're a 180-pound fighter.

Yep. And, like, just decide whether or not you want to fight. And if you do, this is what you fight at. Or if you want to weigh less, you're going to have to lose some weight. Yep. But you're going to have to prove that you actually weigh that. You know, like, lose all the body fat, get yourself to a good position. You know, okay, so what are you at now?

Well, I've got myself down to 170. Weigh them? Okay, looks like you're actually 170. And check your hydration. You're healthy. Okay, so this is your real weight. You fight 170. Perfect.

I mean, how many guys? We would have to blow up all the weight classes. Of course. And that's right. And that's unfortunate. But for the greater good. But once it was established. Yeah, for the greater good. I like that And that's right. And that's unfortunate. But for the greater good. Yeah, for the greater good. I like that. I support it.

You said it already in the beginning. They always blame other people, fighters. And if there's nobody to blame, they blame the fact that their opponent was cutting more weight so he was stronger in the fight. That's why I lost. No, you lost because you lost. He didn't lose because he weighed five pounds extra. Look at the old days, man. Let's forget about this. Frank Edgar. Frank Edgar you lost because you lost. Right. You didn't lose because you weighed five pounds extra.

Look at the old days, man. Let's forget about this. Why did Frankie Edgar beat everybody when he was 155? He didn't cut a goddamn ounce. No, he won. And he was beating everybody. But that's the problem. And they start focusing on it, at least because they can give it a reason.

And then let's hope that the next weight class is going to do better. We've already lost main events. We've lost shows. And we will lose lives. And even Chris Justino. I mean, what is her weight? What is the weight class of Cyborg? It's got to be 145. It's the most healthiest for her.

I don't even think that's true. Thank you. I don't think so, boss. I think she's bigger than that. Yep. I agree with you. I don't think. If it's that much of a struggle where she's almost dying outside the lines to make 140,

145 is a brutal struggle, too. I agree with you. 155 is... I think 155 is a real weight class. There you go. So maybe it's not for her. But, you know, I'm hearing that she's even heavier than 175. Yeah, that's what I heard, too. I hear that she's way over 180. She should fight Gabby.

She walks around on it. Yeah, Gabby's like 240. Gabby's in their friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I wish there were more weight classes for men and for women. You know, I wish there was a ton of weight classes like in boxing. I think boxing. Yeah, the one thing that boxing has that people don't like is that they have so many champions

because they have too many weight classes. But that's how you make things fair. You're right. You can't have a 185 and then a 205. Right. That jump is huge. What, 205 to 65? 20 steaks.

20 pounds. Take 21-ounce or 16-ounce T-bone steaks and stack them up and imagine someone has that advantage over you. All that force power. Well, if it's in his belly, it's okay. 235 weight class. We need that. I think you're right. Or 225, right?

Yeah, 225. Maybe a 225, maybe a 245, and then unlimited. Yep. I mean, who knows? But I think that having heavyweight where there's a weight limit, like you can't weigh more than 265, that seems crazy. Yeah, because they're 180 on the day of the fight. Well, look at guys like Lesnar.

Yeah, Lesnar is cutting a lot of guys, man. And then you're struggling. You can't go to 205, so you're like 220, and you have a really hard cut, and then you face a guy who's 285. Although the early morning thing, I guess, has been successful, right? The day of the— No, it's been unsuccessful. It's been unsuccessful. Radically unsuccessful.

There's been 17 different people missing weight since then. Oh, really? Versus like one or two in the same time period. So then what's this? Why is that then? Just because they want to get the edge, the safety? Safety, it gives people more time to rehydrate themselves. But the problem is it gives them less time to lose the weight.

Right. So if you're starting off early in the morning, like if your weigh-ins are at 4 o'clock and you know you're not going to eat all day, you're going to lose weight all throughout the day. But if your weigh-ins are at 8 o'clock in the morning, when are you getting up that you're going to lose all that weight? You might not lose enough weight. So people are miscalculating. So they're miscalculating. There's definitely an issue with people cutting too much weight. There's definitely an issue with people doing it unhealthy.

Shouldn't they be punished and penalized even more, though? Like I just recently heard Calvin Gastelum. Ray Borg lost 30% of his purse. And that's fine. But even Calvin Gastelum, when they admit, yeah, I haven't really been looking after my diet right. You're a professional athlete signed to the biggest organization in the world. Shouldn't that be part of the contract that, if you're fighting for us, you have to maintain. You almost have those, instead of even a random drug test, random weight test.

Well, obviously they made Calvin go up to 185 in his next fight. And what's crazy is he looked fucking insane against Tim Kennedy. He looked insane. And Tim Kennedy blew his entire wad trying to take him down and beat him up in the early of the first round. I mean, he showed his size advantage, his strength advantage. He's a massive powerhouse when it comes to his ground and pound, his jiu-jitsu. But Kelvin just stayed the course, kept good defense,

and then eventually when he got on his feet, man, way too swift on his feet. But how many times has he missed? Now, three in total? He's missed a bunch of times. He missed against Tyron Woodley, and Tyron beat him, and Tyron, as a gentleman, decided not to even take his money. I remember that. Which is a very fucking ethical and moral move by the champ now, the current champ.

So he lost that. And, I mean, there was more than one fight in the past before that. But when do you say, okay, again, not to begrudge him a career because he's a great fighter. Like you say, he's very good at 185, so let's hope, okay, he stays. But if he misses his way to 185, then... You should say a year you can't fight for a year. Don't you let him go? You know, put the fear fear in them and then they're

really going to do it. I think Calvin should fight at 185. I think he could win at 70. I think he can make 70, but he doesn't always make 70. You're right, 185. Unless he wants to lose a ton of body fat and then try fighting at 170. Really clean his diet up.

What happened to Johnny Hendricks? Johnny Hendricks does not seem like the same person. Oh. Was it because of Thompson wrecking him the way he did? Could be a lot of things. But I agree, because I heard you say as well, even the Broncos. He didn't look physically the same. He did not look physically the same.

No, he doesn't look like he works as hard. It doesn't look like he is as motivated. He doesn't look as hungry. His vaunted knockout power is gone. Gone. Gone. It's weird. It's weird.

It's weird. Yeah, weird. It's weird. Yeah, I wondered to him, and I said a long time ago, if I was his coach, I would just tie his left hand to his body and put him after every workout, you go three or four rounds on the back, you know, just using your right hand. Can you imagine if he developed a right hand on top of that? I mean, because 90% was left. You know, now you open a whole new door, you know?

You know, and it's unfair to question someone whether or not they tested positive for anything, or whether they took anything if they haven't tested positive. So he never tested positive for anything, so you can't look at it that way. I don't think he did, did he? No. Maybe a diuretic or something? Maybe. Maybe.

I have no clue. Find out if Johnny Hendricks ever tested positive or something. I don't think he did. So, you know, there's a lot of people throwing accusations about him and George St. Pierre was. George St. Pierre as well. But you know what it could also be? Like one of the things he said about his last fight is that he worked out four times a week. A week.

Yeah, not enough. One time, four times a week. He's like he just was not focused on that fight. If that's the case. Well, you got to get out. That's why he looks like that. There's nothing to do with USADA or anything else. He just doesn't have the hunger anymore.

That's it. And that's where you put yourself at great risk. But also mentally going into the fight. If you know that another guy trained 10 times a week and you trained four, what are you going to do with four? It's just weird that his power went away. I mean, he used to make guys fly. Crumble. He used to.

Remember when he hit John Fitch and went flying? Martin Kampman, flying. He went flying. It was like he had magic in his hands. And then all of a sudden it stopped. Yeah. It's like, what the fuck? That never has to be a mental thing,

that against a wonder boy. Dude, Thompson really just ruined him. Yeah, he fucked him up. Yeah. He fucked him up. And he fucked him up with, like, using the front leg side kick and then the front leg round kiss.

He hit a bat, one to the body, and then Johnny then Johnny like nods his head like you got me and then slap the same one right up to the face. That's the thing with Wonderboy. He mixes it up perfectly. And then it's suddenly a hook kick and a question mark kick. And it's every time it's a different kick. Yeah. And you don't know what's going to come.

Well, when Ellenberger talks shit about him, like all the spinning kicks, it's a waste of energy. He's like, oh, for real? Check this shit out. I mean, you don't think it's a coincidence that he wheel kicked Ellenberger in the about him, like all his spinning kicks. It's a waste of energy. He's like, oh, for real? Check this shit out. I mean, you don't think it's a coincidence that he wheel kicked Ellenberger in the head twice? Yeah, exactly. Like, oh, here's your waste of time, dude. Right.

Yeah, it's not a waste. I'm fucking super good at this. McGregor, too, right? Yeah, exactly. It's working. And Conor McGregor, too, right? He's using a lot more. Yeah, but the kicks like him, they're not powerful kicks.

They're more to measure, you know, and to hold the opponent at bay, and then suddenly his hands. His hands are ridiculous. I love his hands. Yeah, me too. His left hand is a fucking missile. He's the guy, man. He's one of my favorite guys to watch.

Also, outside of fighting. Yeah, he's a character. I mean, the way he talks, he never has the same, like with me, with interviews where people ask, you know, about your life, how it started. Well, it's the same story over and over again. He can make it every time different. He's one of those guys that constantly changes. Smart businessman.

Yeah. Oh, the smartest. Smartest. He's the best shit talker in the history of combat sports. Before that, it was like Chael Sonnen and Muhammad Ali. And now it's Conor McGregor. I mean, he just knows how to fucking say it. I'm Jeremy Stephen starts talking Just destroyed him with one sentence. I mean it's he finds the perfect shit. Yeah, and it the way he looked back

It's hilarious Yeah. Like, what the fuck? It's hilarious. I mean, when he went in there and annihilated Eddie Alvarez like that, you just got to go, what in the fuck, man? Yep. He's in that style of sliding out and sliding in.

It's a very unusual, almost a karate-based style. Yep. With sitting down on vicious punches on the end of it. But his stance, because he's a southpaw, but I thought, you know, with Aldo, if I was Aldo's coach a year ago already, I would have said, we're going to train southpaw. Because there's no way he can block those low kicks. If left low kicks come, there's no way he can block them.

Because his stance is too wide, and his knees are pointing inside, you know, he can't block them. 100%. It changes the whole game. Changes the whole game. Start left low kicks. And his left low kick inside to the, you know, you can't look. 100%. It changes the whole game. It changes the whole game. Start left low kicks. And his left low kick, by the way, like Aldo could kick the fuck out of you with either leg. Oh.

His low kicks are hard. That's Mr. Faber, right? Wow, man. Horrific. Yeah, he always made me think of Roman Dekkers. Yeah. You know, that explosive. Oh, man.

His left, what do they call it, dutchie? Left to the body and then right leg kick behind it. I mean, he landed that on Chad Mendes. I was like, whoo. Yeah, yeah, it's fun stuff. He throws it, man. I think Aldo and Max Holloway is a very interesting fight. I love Max Holloway.

That fight has to happen. Yes, it has to happen. It has to happen. I keep hearing all this crazy shit, like Aldo might go up and fight Habib for the interim title. I'm like, God damn it, you've got to have Max Holloway fight Aldo. Why don't, well, there we go again, right? The money weight fights. Everyone already, even Carbine, I guess, talked about.

I think that's a money fight. But why say money weight instead of staying in their way, instead of defending the title they own? Well, it's obviously not as big a fight as him fighting Nurmagomedov in Russia, though. Right. And especially if they fight for a 55-pound title. If Nurmagomedov fights in Russia,

they might have to fucking build a new soccer stadium. He's huge. I don't think people understand. Anytime I post something on Instagram, I get 150 fucking Russian dudes who write Habib time, and then they just put Habib time in the credits. My fucking credits are overrun with people that say, or not credits, comments, rather,

are overrun with people who say Habib time, Habib rather, are overrun with people who say, Habib time, Habib time. Just for safety, when they're building that thing, make an underground tunnel for when he loses. You could escape because straight through the airport. Like if he fights Conor. You know, what's interesting about the Conor fight, man, look, Habib time, Habib time. See? He's not fucking around. It's all true.

But like if he fights Conor, when Michael Johnson cracked him and rocked him, I went, oh, boy. And then he got angry. Yeah, he got angry. He did get angry, and he beat the fuck out of him. But the point is, he got hurt. He got hurt. And if Conor catches you like that, you might be fucking Dunsville. He might drop some hammers on you, and that might be the end of you.

And conversely, the same thing, right? You know, we've seen Conor as well at times. It's just the shot. Well, and better in Habib's defense, we saw Conor get rocked against Nate, and he wound up losing that fight shortly thereafter. Habib got rocked against Michael Johnson, came back strong, and dominated him. So it was the only time, I mean, when you see a guy who's as dominant as Habib, you start looking for weaknesses in his armor. It's the only time, I mean, when you see a guy who's as dominant as Habib, you start looking for weaknesses

in his armor. It's the only time we've seen any weakness at all. Yeah, but McGregor, in his defense, he was getting tired already there when he got hit. So that combined.

Yep, yep, yep. So Habib doesn't get tired. Did you see that funny video they had with the narrating guy who's constantly dropping F-bombs left and right? The story about Habib and how he's training

and where he comes from. No. When he was six years old, he was already wrestling with freaking beers. It's really funny. It's on here right now somewhere. Do you know the name of the— Just go Habib promo. Just put that on.

See what happens. Is it like the most interesting man in the world type of spoof? It's lately made, so it will pop up on top, I guess. Okay. It's really funny. Nice. And you see him wrestling a bear when he was like six years old, and then he starts talking about his father, who was already a really good judo guy.

MMA and combat sports, the memes, the use of social media to really get so cool, man. So well. Unless you're Ronda Rousey after that fucking Nunes fight. So many fucking people with those mean memes. Mean, mean, mean. What do you think? She's coming back? No, I don't think she is.

I mean, I don't think. I don't think. Well, if she does, she should come back in a calculated manner. Like, don't just rush in and fight for the title like she did. I think that's crazy. Taking a year off, getting head kicked, knocked out, you know, where's your head at? And was she 100% committed to this as far as, like, training for the entire time off? Or did she just get in really good shape over the last few months?

And had she been training at all before then? I mean, you'd have to ask her and answer all those questions. But if she doesn't want to be fighting, she shouldn't be fighting. You know, but Amrit was shouting from the beginning, head movement, head movement, so I assume they worked on the head movement. I just think the pressure and the way she comes to the angry face and all that shuts her down. And, you know, it's too much pressure.

A whole Hollywood career rides on it. I mean, that's not going to happen now, right? Right. I mean, because... But, buddy, there was a use of it, too. We talked about it. No footwork, no defense, no head movement. But on it. I mean, that's not going to happen now, right? Right. I mean, because... But, buddy, you said it too. We talked about it. No footwork, no defense, no head, but there was nothing. But that's what nerves can do to you.

I like to see a Ronda with a smile on her face go to the ring, being relaxed and calm, send her away, go to a Dwayne Ludwig for a year and have some smokers, because you can still legally do that in other clubs. Just striking, you know, to just get in that moment and to see where you're at. I think in training, this is the problem that everybody has. You know, in training, you always do good. A lot of guys do good.

But you know, as well as I do, there's these gym guys who are really good in training. They can't do it under pressure. So if she's been boxing and working on her striking and she's been hitting people left and right, then they got some good people coming in. I heard that she works out even with ex-boxing champions or current boxing champions and doing well against her. But then again, you know, that's a nice, safe environment, bringing it under pressure

with all the crap she had on her shoulders. I thought that takes it away. There's also Amanda Nunes is a very, very dangerous puncher. Sodden strike force, man. Right away. Her kicks, her punches. She kicks and punches so fucking hard. And she has long arms, man.

And she puts you on the end of these long punches. And she dinged Ronda very early in the fight. You could tell she was rocked. She was right away back into the home fight. That's what I think happened there. And Nunes also leans all the way over. So it's hard to take her down, you know. And Ronda should also, you know, and maybe she's doing it. I'm just saying what I think happened there. And Nunes also leans all the way over, so it's hard to take her down. And Ronda should also, and maybe she's

doing it, I'm just saying what I don't see, maybe start wrestling as well. Because a girl like that with so much talent, she'll pick that up so fast. But if she suddenly shoots for a single or a double leg, she covers more distance. Well, she went for the clinch, but she'd already been rocked, so I think that, because remember, she shucked her off quite easily. Her clinch is always

upper body clinch, and she always reaches in with the left arm. It's like this, you know, Greg Jackson and I talked about it after the Holly Holm fight that they had seen every single one of her fights. She comes at you. She got that left arm extended, tries to get a hold of the girls with the left arm, hip tosses them, gets them on the ground, arm bars them. And they just were so prepared. But isn't, I was going to say, interesting that Holm, she came from boxing, MMA, just trained for Ronda Rousey.

Cody Garbrandt, remember? Well, she was a kickboxing champion, too. Well, kickboxing and boxing champion, but I'm saying in terms of her MMA prep, the goal was Ronda Rousey, right? And now with Cody Garbrandt, he talked about in high school, Dominic Cruz. And you think, you wonder, well, the laser focus, right? The television, obviously, you have to work on everything. But if that's your target and you see what he did to Cruz it's well there's a lot of fighters like that that attract greatness like I think Anderson Silva attracted greatness and I think one of the reasons why Weidman became

as great as he was because he knew that Anderson Silva was at the top of the mountain like you see that that that assassin you know and Weidman caught him like right at the right time and you know knocked him out and then the broken leg in the second fight. And I think when you have a dominant champion like Anderson was for so many years, all those young kids coming up, that's who they aspire to. And it raises the bar. I'm really curious to see what the flyweights look like in a few years. Yes.

Because of how good Mighty Mouse is. Because his bar, he's raised it so high. It's way above everybody else. Yeah. But, you know yeah but you know annis the silver getting too comfortable planting two feet next to each other having no forward backward side more lateral movement whatsoever you can only lean as much backwards right for that left hook what he received from whiteman well you know when he fucked up

whiteman had a very clever move that a lot of people missed and what he did was he threw a right hand and then behind the right hand, he threw a back fist. So there was a punch coming from the left and then he moved towards it and another punch coming towards the left because it was a left hook. So Anderson is doing his bobbing and weaving stuff, but when a punch comes at him and then a back fist, he's got to go that way. So then he's got to go that way.

So when he went back right, that's when Chris Wyman cracked him with that long left. That's the same punch that he used to knock out Uriah Hall. He throws this long, like, straight-armed hook, and it's very deceiving how much distance he can cover with it. You know, yeah, a lot of distance, plus it's that straight punches are better as well, I always say. That's what I always like. You use close lines. I mean, you have more reach.

If you connect with a left hook, you're way too close. If the person doesn't move, you're way too close for a straight punch. Right, right. But if you make it a palm strike, now we have some space that we can cover. What did you think of Yoel Romero knocking out Weidman? Wasn't that insane? Wow. Yeah, brutal.

Why did Weidman even want to go for that? I mean, he said the whole training camp, he said, and afterwards he said, I have no clue why I did it, because we knew we should not do that. And as soon as he lowered himself, it was, yeah, it just collided there. It was just a perfect knee. Because he was doing freaking awesome. He did exactly what I said in the game plan, you know, go, go, go. It doesn't matter if you keep him down, take him down, get all those muscles working.

Yep. You know, get him tired, get him tired. And it was working for him. Until Yoel decided to wrestle with him. And then he was throwing Weidman around that second round. That's when you realize how strong a wrestler he is. How good his wrestling is. It's fucking insane.

The wrestling of the high-level Olympic caliber and yet power to go that. Those are dangerous dudes, man. That's where he is. He's the freak of all freaks. He stands next to all of them and just looks like, what in the fuck did they feed you in Cuba? But the same thing with him. Can you imagine if he starts focusing on the right side a little bit more?

What a super freak this guy is going to be. Because all his attacks are coming. It's a left kick, left knee, left straight. Pretty much. The only way, the only time when he uses a right low kick, is to set up a straight punch or a kick or whatever. And he doesn't throw with power. You should counter that.

That right kick that he throws, outside leg or inside leg, whatever stance you are. But you should counter that instantly because otherwise the big hand is going to come. But if he starts developing a right and a right kick, just two things, a right knee, a right hook, whatever. Is he too muscular? And I know it's labor.

It's working for him. That's what I'm saying. But it's like you look at a guy like that because you say physical specimen, man. Just so incredibly above and beyond. But yet, okay, it's working for him. Anthony Rumble Johnson. Yep. So it's definitely not a problem.

He just has to manage it. In a lot of ways, the same way Tyron Woodley uses his power. He's obviously much more muscular and much stronger than most guys in that division. He showed in the Wonderboy fight that Woodley knows how to manage it now. He went a full five rounds, and what's really important is that he stunned Wonderboy in the fourth.

So they're in the championship rounds. He rocked him and hurt him bad and had him in deep, deep trouble. I feel like there's so many benefits to being as powerful as Yoel Romero is. There's definitely a downside. That downside is if a guy like Weidman didn't shoot for that and was constantly wearing on him, constantly grinding on him, and had him in a bit of trouble like Tim Kennedy had him in his second round,

then we'll see what happens. But it hasn't happened yet. It hasn't happened yet. I mean, even in the Kennedy fight, he definitely cheated. Right? He definitely sat on a stool too long. But he recovered fast, too. And he was tired, but he's still at knockout power. But he still recovered.

He still came back to fuck Kennedy up. And it was like, Jesus Christ. He's such a monster. He's so much better of an athlete than almost anybody else in the division. When he throws guys around, they just go sailing. He grabs a hold of you. Speaking of guys who I've always been impressed with,

and a guy, I mean, obviously the jiu-jitsu. Yeah, but the striking, to me, yeah. And he recovered in that fight, too, because Yoel fucked him up, too. Yoel hit him with that spinning back fist and had him all hurt. Yeah. And then Zachary came back from that fight and won. Good thoroughbreds, man. A lot of great fights still to be made.

And what happened? No, Yoel Romero won. He won the decision, but the decision was overturned because of the drugs. Yeah, he had some sort of peptide that they found in the supplement that he was taking. So they only gave him like a nine-month suspension. It was the same one that Jones took, if I understand. That's why that was, to me, that was kind of weird because he is managed by the same guy. No, it's not the same one that Jones took.

No, definitely not. Okay, I thought that. No, no, no. He had like some growth hormone thing inside of it, whereas Jones had clomiphene. growth hormone thing inside of it, whereas Jones had clomiphene. Clomiphene is an estrogen suppressor that people use to kickstart their testosterone production after a steroid cycle. It's an estrogen suppressor. But Romero was the first one who brought actually the product, and he says, this is what I took,

and he looked into it. And that's what I never... I always said that. All the fighters say, but nobody... If I would be the guy, I would say, this is what I took. Please test this. And he did that. Why do they take it? Are you a proponent?

A lot of people say, why? What do supplements actually do for the athlete if this is what's been happening with the tainted supplements? Well, it's just where you get your supplements from. The real issue with supplements is some of them definitely work. I mean, how much should you be allowed to enhance your body with nutritional supplements? Right. Because there's a lot of supplements that work. Creatine works.

There's a lot of stuff that works. So you have to figure out like, okay, well, how much can it work? You know, it obviously can't work like androstenedione or all those hormone precursors that they've all banned. Okay, well, it can't work that good. Can it work as good as this? And then like, there's all these different, you know, standards. I mean, there's certain protocols that people follow when it turns to vitamin replacements,

and they do IV vitamin drips, and extreme concentration on their nutrition, and they have results. Like, those results, they tend to show that there are benefits in Supplementation and there's definitely benefits and clean diet and making sure that your nutritional balance is so like at what level should it be illegal? I mean you can't how you father fuck you getting so much b12 out of nature You're not you have to take it in a pill and it gives you energy Well, what the fuck is that? You know and you could take some caffeine. Like Chael Sonnen used to take caffeine pills to make sure that he got the exact amount of caffeine. Because he's like, you don't know.

Because you get a Starbucks. You might get a Venti Starbucks. And they might have fucking packed it in tight and juiced the shit out of it. And every now and then you get a cup of coffee. You're like, whoa, this is some strong coffee. So you might actually test over. So in order to make sure that Chael was in the lines, he would take pills.

Caffeine is illegal. It's on the list. It's legal. Wow. Illegal, yeah. But if you get to a certain number, it's illegal. If you get past a certain amount of milligrams in your system, I don't know how they measure that.

Well, that's the other thing, too. Like the testosterone to epitestosterone. I've talked to medical professionals, and everyone's saying, man, you're supposed to be around one to one. That's all nature. Yeah, unless you're some weird freak. You might be like one to two.

So why even? Okay, so four to one or six to one. How does that? You know, that's always puzzled me as well. A lot of us are 14 to one. But that's what I mean. You know, so why? And for injury recovery, Joe, and I know a lot of people, fighters, that's what they say.

Well, geez, I had a mortgage. I have to fight. I've got to support the family. Is there a way to monitor that where even the banned steroid thing where you can allow a person to at least make a living without making it an enhancement? Well, it's going to be an enhancement. That's the problem. Right away. Not only is it going to be an enhancement, but if you take steroids while you're, like,

say if you have a knee surgery and then you take steroids and you're lifting weights the entire time, you're going to keep some of those gains. You're going to keep a certain percentage of it. But on the flip side, your endocrine system is going to be fucked up and it's going to take you a while to get back to normal testosterone production if you do wind up testing and you do go back on USADA after the injury. So there's an argument said that you're taking a risk. You do recover quicker, but it might not be better for your overall hormone system.

You know, I remember I was talking about it. We did it on the podcast. I don't have it memorized, but there was a test with testosterone, what they did in the Olympics, pre-steroids and after steroids, and they start really testing everybody. It's called the biological passport. And they say that it actually did not help that more people who didn't use had better results than the people who were using. And same thing as me.

I got that face which you have now, too. But, you know, I'll look it up. You know what I'm saying? Just look at whatever the Russians are doing. Whatever they're doing, that's the I'll look it up. You know what I'm saying? Just look at whatever the Russians are doing. Whatever they're doing, that's the right way to do it. Because they've got a fucking state-sponsored program. You know, the United States is working hard to try to clean it up.

Baseball players have to go in front of Congress. They arrest people. People are getting locked up. USADA. Jeff Novitsky's crawling up everybody's ass. We're trying to find people that are using steroids and cheating. And Russia, they're like, what do we got to do? What do we got to do? Let's fucking make it happen, boys.

You need to be faster. I got this stuff that I got from a horse. Stick it inside your body and see if you become a horse. Shit. Fuck it. They did some crazy tests in the early days also with making super soldiers, injecting people with plutonium like a person

Jesus Christ see what happens if he morphs into like a freaking Wolverine or whatever and they watch too many comic books I mean they

they almost kicked the entire Russian Olympic team out of the Olympics the Olympics in Brazil they were like hey what the fuck guys at the last minute they decided not to but they've been going back

You know they use the old samples from 2008 and 12 and they've already kicked out to a Russian Olympic gold medalist in wrestling Wow, yeah, they're on the shit. They're on the shit They're just on this undetectable shit or some shit that they don't detect yet which it Corralin when you see him. Oh, yeah Yeah, I was I mean lifting people From you like that the sport Corralin when you see him? Oh yeah. I mean lifting people up straight from the ground laying on their belly. What's the most we can expect then guys? Like the sport, is it ever going to be clean? Well it's way cleaner now in the UFC than it's ever been before. But I think there's also, I like the fact that 1FC is available for guys who don't want to be clean.

And Ryzen is available for guys who don't want to be clean. There's an argument either way. There's an argument for the pride way which was everybody knew that everybody was on it. They were tested pride, right? Remember the guys in the white lab coats? Hey, boss, why is this vial just sitting here? I mean, buddy, it was unbelievable. They called it the boss tour.

I was going backstage with the camera, showing everybody, hey, man, what's up? Hey, look at that, it's federally training. And then I said, okay, we walk into the room from the doctors. tour i was going backstage with the camera showing everybody hey man what's up hey this is how you look at that it's federally training and you know and then i said okay we walk into the room from the doctors so i opened the door and i looked to the side and i see all the p tests there with all little sticks on them right and i closed the door right away and i look in the camera i said give me one moment they're very busy let me walk in and ask for permission so i walk in and i grab one of those cups and i see green tea i fill it up and I put the same cup next to it.

So then... But you weren't even... You shouldn't have been allowed to be that close. No, but then... So, yeah, see, I could have contaminated everything. So I'm walking in and I'm saying, oh, these are the doctors here. And I looked at the side. They go, oh, hey, the pee test.

I said, man, wouldn't it be great if you can taste what fighter it is? And these people, they looked at me, and so I take my green tea, and I take the thing off, and they go like, no, no, no, no, no. And I take a little sip, and I go, it's either Coleman or Takara. They were freaking out, man. It was hilarious.

But there you go. There is a clear illustration. Obviously not serious. Yeah, not WADA or USADA. I can't walk in. Well, Ensign has been real open about it. Ensign talked about it. They literally said in large parts, we do not test you for steroids.

It said it on the thing. You know, I knew a guy from there, and he would say to me that in the morning, he would take a huge rinse of testosterone because it made him really angry in the fight. In the morning? Yeah. In the morning of the fight. In the morning of the fight, he'd just jack up. In the morning of the fight, jacked up.

Fuck. And what about these guys who were, like, bench pressing the day before? You know, all these muscle guys who they got in, you know, that you thought, why do they have these guys? Because, you know, a fight is just bodybuilding. But it was a cosmetic thing. You're right. It was bench pressing.

Yeah, it was bench pressing. They were pride and love to the freaks, my man. And that's, you know, a lot of the matchmaking we saw. Do you guys remember Jason Chambers from the show? Yes. Yeah, yeah. He went over to Japan. I forget which organization it was.

They wanted him to fight 185. And he's like, I weigh 170. And they're like, don't worry. We'll get you under style. Like, they told him. They wanted him to juice up and go to 185. He was like, what in the fuck? Oh, man.

Yeah, that's the problem. You know what people say here? They say they should just allow it. They say, yeah, but then you force the guys who want to stay clean to use it as well. You shouldn't do that. And as Joe mentioned earlier, I mean, there are health risks. But I think not even health risks. I think doesn't it damage your system when you do steroids?

Well, it depends on how much you're doing. But if you're going like super hyper human levels, like I'm sure a lot of those guys were, yeah, it's bad for you. And it's one of the real clear indicators that a lot of guys were on it were how they got off of it and came to the UFC and looked like mortals. Yeah. You know, they looked like human pit bulls. They saw it right away with a lot of guys were on it were how they got off of it and came to the UFC and looked like mortals yeah you know they did look like human pit bulls right away with a lot of them yeah I mean a lot of them I mean it's just it is what it is and it's uh unfortunately the early roots of MMA were marred like it's it's almost all people that took steroids I mean there's so many camps if you talk to the insiders they will tell you god damn it back then everybody was on wow everybody was on. Wow.

Everybody was on. You know, and you don't have to name names, and everybody who knows knows, and it doesn't matter. But what does matter is that when you look at the early days of the sport, it was essentially contaminated. And now they've wiped out a giant percentage of it. And occasionally guys still get caught with some things, and, you know, Cyborg got caught with some sort of...

Diuretic, right? Yeah. It's also spironolactane is also a DHT inhibitor. It's dihydrotestosterone, which is a derivative of testosterone, which makes your hair fall out. And I used to use that spironolactane stuff that she got caught with. I used to rub that shit on my head to keep my hair from falling out. Boss, I'm taking notes. I feel like I'm studying under Professor

Rogan right now. This is amazing. That's good to know. You have to know it. It's also used by people who want to shield themselves from tests. It's also used by females that have taken male hormones and they want to reduce the effects of the extra androgens. So there's a lot

of factors. Once they start growing hair out of the backs, you know, I think I'm getting a stash. The back knee, right? Remember in 5-Loss, we would see guys come in, they just had the back knee. Full of zits. You could tell right away.

When you're banging a chick and you see werewolf back hair. Well, they say the clitoris can be as big as a thumb, right? That's what they say. Whose thumb, though? Yours? Yeah, I've got a big, but mine is lengthy. You've got a fucking hell of a thumb. Yeah, but it's not thick.

The girth is less. But like Bob Sapp's thumb. Oh, man. The worst story I've heard, some guy, I was talking, I'm not going to mention names, and he said,

and we were talking about that, and I go, oh man, that's got to be really horrible. He said, oh no, I had one. I dated a bodybuilder, and she had like a big thing.

I go, dude, what did you do? He said, oh, no, I had one. I did it at a bodybuilder, and she had a big thing. I go, dude, what did you do? He said, oh, I sucked it. Like a baby soother. Isn't that funny? We're all good with sucking clits as long as they're little. As long as it's little. But I don't care if it feels good for you. If I feel it more than a half an inch into my mouth, it's over. I will run out of here like this place is on fire.

Even though it's a woman's vagina, it's still a vagina. That's true. But it comes with the accompanied voice, the dark voice, the Darth Vader voice. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I like it. That's right. Suck the kiss.

I love it when you do this to me. An animated Netflix special. A good tourist voice. Get back here. I'm not done. You motherfucker. I'm going to get a baby and you're going to be

my father. There's got to be guys that are just really into being dominated by super powerful women with big clits. There has to be. There has to be.

I mean, you got all such crazy people. Takes every kind of people. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, some guys are listening right now and go, oh yeah. Oh yeah, that's my style, bro. That's my thing are listening right now go. Oh, yeah

So do you think that when you guys look at rising right now Do you think the rising has the possibility of coming they're putting on some fucking big shows? Yeah, they've got some good fights You know crow cop just wins the heavyweight tournament, you know, you're shaking your head over there. I'm not well I think they have a chance of success It's hard today again. They're gonna to need... After Sakuraba stopped, Pride pretty much started going down. Does he need a Japanese star? That's the thing. Exactly.

You have seen it with the K-1. That was the reason K-1 stopped at a certain time. There was no more Japanese star, and they need a good one. But who are you going to fight who's going to beat Fort Gracie's, right? That's something that's a one-in-a-lifetime deal. Well, K-1 had Masato at the lighter weights,

who was a superstar. Yeah, K-1 Max. Yeah, K-1 had Masato at the lighter weights, who was a superstar. Yeah, K-1 Max. Yeah, K-1 Max. But then when you get up to the bigger guys, man, once you get a guy like Badr Hari's size, it's just not, who the fuck is going to be that big? Yeah. And that was sad, too, how that fight ended, Badr Hari and Rico Verhoeven with the anticlimactic. Unfortunately.

He broke his arm. But still, interesting fight. What was going on? And I'm excited about a rematch. I hope so. He looked like an animal. Looks like Okazaki might be wanting to come back as well. Randy Bojanski's too.

But again, see, these names. Bojanski's like 40, right? Yeah, these guys are... I just met Andre Monarch. He was there at Madison Square Garden for the World Series of Fighting on December 31st. Monarch was there, his trainer, Bojanski. But he didn't say anything. He said, you know, that, I said,

man, that's the guy who trains champions. And he said Bonyansky, but he didn't say anything more. And Sammy Schilt had to retire because of the heart condition. Yeah, it's... So you see a guy like Uberim, like back when he was Uberim, you know, and when he was winning K-1. Slaughtering people.

265, super jacked, and then he goes to MMA. But, you know, a guy wins the K-1 Grand Prix. Like you got to wonder, like a guy like Uber Eam, if he came back as Uber Eam, you know, like I don't know if it's Glory or Bellator, whoever has got the stones and the cash to pull him aside and say, Hey, listen, fella, there's work to be done here. Yes, you can start again. They would love to do it.

It didn't hurt me. This is my friend. He's from another country. He is a doctor. He will help you. They will make you better, stronger, faster. He comes back 270, jacked again. Back when he knocked out Botter.

Oh, yeah. Right on. He knocked out Botter with a left hook. Oh. Yeah. Complete animal. Yeah, heed again. Back when he knocked out Botter. Oh, yeah. He knocked out Botter with a left hook. Oh. Yeah. Complete animal. Tyrone Spong. I want to see him. Man, that guy.

I was so excited, but he broke his leg. I broke down. That was the one time in all the fights and everything we've seen. I remember I was there when Jose Pelli, Landy Johns against Brian Gassway in Canada, John McCarthy and I, when he broke his leg. But for some reason, Saki and Spong, I was broke down just to see because it was so visceral. All of this, everything that it took

for him to come back and put it in, and boom. It was crazy because Tyron Spong and him were both super high-level kickboxers, and you only really saw that mostly in MMA. You really didn't see it that much in high-level kickboxers, and you only really saw that mostly in MMA. You really didn't see it that much in high-level kickboxing. And that's why, Gloria, as we talked, there is now, I mean, Matt Embry,

this kid from Canada who's now going to be fighting in Los Angeles next week. Canada, too, where the sport is banned in so many of the provinces, but Joseph Valtellini had to retire because of the concussion issues. He's on next week. Oh, good, good. Awesome. He's a smart kid, man. issues. He's on next week. I got him on here next week. Oh, good. Good. Awesome. He's a smart kid, man. Yeah, he's a great guy. I don't think he's 100% decided on his retirement, but he's leaning towards that because of concussions.

Medically, the concussions are not something you want to mess with. Well, remember T.J. Grant? Yep. He was about to fight for the title when Benson had the title in the lightweight division in the UFC division. Never came back. Never came back. And it's from concussions.

It just popped up. Pitbull. It was Pitbull who broke his shin. It was at Bellator. Oh, that's right. That's right. He broke that bone next to his shin. Fibula, tibula, whatever it is.

Yeah, it's interesting also that, like, we know we're talking about kickboxing not really gaining ground in America. Bellator hasn't really gained ground either. No. It reaches a certain point, and some of the ratings are really good, like when Ken Shamrock fought Royce Gracie. Those freak shows. That's where Scott Coker. He invited Meryl Streep, Scott, didn't he?

He wrote the letter, yeah, yeah. On his Instagram. Of course, he's a promoter. But Scott Coker is a promoter. Always has been, always will be. And, I mean, there's that mix where I think Bellator has to focus on. Because UFC, for the large part, 98%, 99% of the best talent. But Bellator trying.

But you're right. And again, I think it's also because, Joe, what we talk about, too much of everything. It's every week. Something. Yeah, but that's why the UFC did it as well. First, they got to have the fighters and they need to fight. Of course. But by having so many shows, you shot every week. Something, you know. Yeah, but that's why the UFC did it as well. First, they got to have the fighters and they need to fight. Of course. But by having so many shows, she shut every organization down, right?

But then you look at guys, and there's a few guys in Bellator like Lima, who just knocked out Korshkov, which is fucking sensational. Amazing, amazing. Lima's world class. Terrific fighter. I mean, world series of fighting even, man. There's Marlon Moraes, great guy. Although Gaichi, we talked about. Who was it? Firmino Moraes, great guy. Although Gaethje, we talked about.

Who was it? Firmino? Justin Gaethje. Yeah, Justin Gaethje. He got hit too many times. He got lit up too in that fight, man. He won, but he got hit too many times. He really needs to change his game plan.

He knows he can take a punch, but he takes too much advantage of it. And I just don't think it's... But that's... What are the goals? Respect, like realistic. Like you say, like even Bellator hasn't got traction. So how do they continue to exist? That's what it is.

It is hard. It's hard because they've been around for a long time now. World Series of Fighting has been around for a long time now. And the hardcore, hardcore fans. Then you break it down. Not even regular hardcore. Hardcore, hardcore are watching those events. It's almost like we're spoiled.

We have too many events. We are spoiled. And it's weird to say because how many years did we fight? Hey, look at us. Hey, we're spoiled. We have too many events. We are spoiled. And it's weird to say because how many years did we fight? Hey, look at us. Hey, we're here. And now it's like, wow, a tsunami of action. Well, the UFC has been super wise with its promotion. They know how to stay on top.

But I would like to see a challenger emerge. And like right now, it doesn't. You know, Bellator has guys like Michael Chandler. They've got some guys that are real exciting and really fun to watch and I think could be genuine stars. And of course, Michael Venom Page. I love that guy. I mean, for sure. Man sent Cyborg into retirement.

That knockout was that skull crushing. I've never seen that before. His patella, his knee was indented in his skull. It was the crazy timing too because, you know, Cyborg in, and it was kind of what we're talking about. Yep. But someone's shooting for a double, but I don't think his knees were on the ground at that time.

No, no. But as he shot in, Michael Venom Page timed it perfectly and taught him coming in. And going back, remember Takanori Gomi, Half Gracie? Oh, yeah. Remember six seconds ago? Gracie, Sturman, Benid, boom, done. First move of the fight, yeah. Yeah, gone.

That was Half's last fight, right? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, man. I mean, knees to a guy who was trying to take you down. I mean, it's so devastating. You have to commit to that knee or commit to that takedown, and you get caught coming in like that. Yeah, it's not like you can shoot with one hand in front of your face.

It's very hard. That was probably the most horrific injury I've ever seen in MMA. Oh, yeah, I think so. Yeah, I agree. Also afterwards, the pictures, you know, with all these little plants on him. Insane. And then he wants to fight again. Well, no, but he's retiring.

He's retiring. Yeah, yeah. I just announced. Yeah, I think he sat back after the fact and just really realized, like, wow, the fucking egg that contains my brain is cracked. I'm surprised. Like, it's amazing that he recovered the way he did as far as I'm cuz after seeing the x-rays and Someone skulls crushed like that. They're dead. I'm any fingers

Has to touch something of the of the brain that does something to you right? It's a scary thing if you think about it and And how much damage did his brain take in that? I mean, that is a significant impact. And even in his career. I remember him and, I remember Lee, not Lee, Jordan Meehan against him. Amazing. But do the same thing, man. Just kidding.

Him and Monhoof. Monhoof too? Remember that in England? They had some wars going on. Gage rage. Crazy how many. Well, like you say, if what to see Noguera at his prime in England they had some wars going on oh cage rage crazy how many well like you say what to see Noguera at his prime in UFC how many wars did Rodrigo

and O'Jerry go through in pride but how many shots did they take like from Fader in the guard and they go man don't take those shots

you know try to crazy so many fighters in pride bro again what we talked about the stomps the Gary Goodrich right now

he's coming out with everything. It's so sad to see because the guy was amazing. I just saw the, what was some, I don't know if it was one of those sports news magazine shows with the NFL and stuff, that they had 99 samples of former football players' brains were dedicated to research. Out of those, almost 100% showed signs of CTE. Yeah, I can't imagine you'd get away without it. I mean, it's just, you're colliding into each other. It's terrible.

There's no way around it. No. You know, and if you're, you know what Gary Goodrich said, that it really is K-1 career that did him in. For sure. The MMA fights. The gatekeeper there also, you know, pretty much. But hey, he knocked out Mb Bernardo all the way in the beginning.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we were talking about it at the Pride Fighting Championships when he came over there. He was a powerful guy. Oh, man. Remember when Don Frye, and God, I hope speedy recovery to Don too. His back is feeling great now, actually. I just texted him yesterday. Good.

Remember when he came back to Pride, that New Year's Eve show, and Goodrich knocked him out right away too, the rivalry. But yeah, Goodrich was a he came back to Pride, that New Year's Eve show, and Goodrich knocked him out right away, too, the rivalry. But yeah, Goodrich was a beast back in the day as well. Yeah, what happened? He beat Gary in UFC. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, he did. UFC, of course.

And then in the Pride, the rematch was years later in Pride on New Year's Eve, and it was like one kick, and that was it. Yeah, because Gary now was a kickboxer. You know, he started training and kickboxing. Oh, that's right. He head kicked him. Yeah, he Gary now was a kickboxer. You know, he started training. Oh, that's right. He head kicked him. Yeah, he did. Oh, yeah, that's right.

I forgot about that. I remember frying Takayama Corsairs in the old town plastic so much. I completely forgot about frying Goodrich, too. And then I welded it to Goodrich, I believe. Yes, that's right. Okay, what about Swanson and Duho Joy? Look how many, I mean, an amazing fight,

but Duho Joy took how many shots? Yeah. That was a crazy fight. That was one of the most chaotic fights I've ever watched. And one of the most, like the data wasn't going in my head correctly. I was like, how is he getting hit with these haymakers that Cub Swanson's winging in from downtown Cleveland and cracking him on his head. When they came from across the fucking country,

his punches were crazy. It's unbelievable. He was throwing a ball, and boom, he would take it right on the chin and just stagger back, and then Cub would crack him again. He would stagger back. It's just unbelievable. Our room, everybody's standing when we were watching it.

It was insane. It was the craziest thing I've ever seen. A lot of people picked it as the fight. I mean, there's so many. That's just unbelievable. Our room, everybody's standing. We were watching it. It was insane. It was the craziest thing. A lot of people picked it as the fight. I mean, there's so many. That's the thing. Remember, it started with Lawler and Condit? Yeah. What a year, dude, for fights.

That was a crazy fight, too. Oh, that was with Holloway, you know, when he drawed a line, remember? Yes. And then they started slinging it out of the line. They started slinging at each other, yeah. He's one of my favorite guys, too, man. And we had him on our podcast. That's Conor McGregor, too.

He's 100% convinced he's going to get a title. He's one of these guys that nobody's going to stand in his path. But you know what? We went the distance with Conor, but Conor did beat him. Conor had a blown-out ACL in that fight, too. That's right. Towards ACL. Later, he said that he was also injured.

Oh, Max was? Yeah. Yeah, I believe it. You know, Max is a real, I mean, he's an interim champion right now, but he's world championship caliber. Oh, yeah. I just want to see how he does against Aldo. I want to see how he does against some of the best guys. But, you know, he's finished Cub Swanson.

Should we get rid of interim titles through and through? Boxing, MMA, all this shit? I think the only way that interim titles make any sense is if someone is recovering from a catastrophic injury. Catastrophic injury. Yeah, like someone blows their ACL out and you go, okay, well, the title is now going to be suspended for a whole year because it's going to take six months before you can even start training again

and then nine months before you can start training hard and then three months to go through camp. You need a year. And then you've got Cruz. That took even longer you know you're right but or or do you simply say listen the title is going to be taken away from you you know you're not the champion anymore but you are the first one in line as soon as you come back and that's usually the case a lot of the time right when they do recover they do get the but i just think don't think so. I think that's an interim. Yeah, because then they lose the title

and it's sent down to the history books, right? Yeah, that's when the interim makes sense. When someone's got a bad injury and, you know, like Anderson Silva breaks his leg. I don't think it made sense with Conor to take it away. I mean, I know if he wasn't going to defend it, but we know, I mean, they needed... Again, I think the UFC's at a point now...

Which one do you don't think makes sense? The Holloway. When they took it away from Conor at 145? He's not defending the title. Well, I know, but it's... He's not defending the title. You've got to take it away from him. Okay, I agree, but I think if Aldo's already the champion, then the winner of Holloway

and they become the number one contender then. Yeah, but the problem is you tie up the titles. You've got a guy who's the champ champ. Champ champ like Conor, champ at 45 and 55. You got to say you got to vacate one because it's like to hold two of them subsequently or simultaneously. But then they should have done it right then and there. He made history. Thank you very much.

Here's the one title that I'm not going to defend. No, he's got to decide. You know, he decided he's going to stay at 55 or they decided for him. I don't know what the fuck's going on. I don't think he can get one at 45. It's going to be hard for him. See, there him. I don't know what the fuck's going on. I don't think he can get 145. It's going to be hard for him. Yeah, see, there's another weight cut that you're right. I don't think he should be at 145. Yeah, he doesn't

look like a man when you see him at 145. It's like death. Are they cut in? Yeah, it looks like death. It's terrible. You can only do that so many times. Much healthier at 155, and there's a bunch of fights for him, but then, you know, when they were talking about Nmagomedov fighting Tony Ferguson. Look at that, guys.

Yeah. Yeah, look at that fucking picture on the left. He looks like a dead man. He looks like a dead man. I am coming for you. Yeah, much, much healthier on the right. So I think that, you know, if they were talking about having Aldo and Nurmagomedov fight for an interim 155 title or Ferguson. So then what happens at 145?

I think that's, well, 45 is now Aldo. Aldo's the champ. Right. Max Holloway's the interim champ. Those guys have to fight. They should fight. They should fight. Thank you.

100%. Thank you. 100%. But now Aldo, I mean, I don't know if it's true, but Nurmagomedov said it was bullshit. And they were talking about Aldo fighting a super fight with Nurmagomedov in Russia. And, of course, Tony Ferguson's like, what? Well, Tony Ferguson wanted more money than his contract stated. And, unfortunately for him, he's in a weird position right now because there's so many fights to be made at 55.

And the big one, of course, is Conor. Sure. Anybody who Conor fights. If Nurmagomedov decides to fight Conor and they decide that's the big fight and they put it on in Russia. Put it on anywhere but Russia for sure. I don't think people realize how much of a on the Russian guys. You're right. I don't think they do realize

how big he is in Russia. Nurmagomedov's giant. He's a huge, huge star. When he goes on stage too, like when he steps onto the platform and enters into the cage, the fucking crowd goes nuts. They know who he is. It's just one of those russians are way ahead of the game in terms of uh knowing who he is and he's a giant star over there but he could be a giant star over here too he kids a fucking mauler he mauls people and a funny guy too you know outside of fighting he's

got personality for sure i like him he's um you know he's a real wild card in that division because he's undefeated. We saw one moment of weakness. That's it. One moment was he in trouble, and he came back from that brilliantly. Cain Velasquez, is there a fight again? Yeah, he's going to fight again, but he's got some serious fucking medical problems. He's got a stenosis, spinal stenosis, which is they have to clean out his area where his spine is. So why would you fight again?

Because he's got a dream. I don't know what you mean, but you say it medically like that. You know what I'm saying? Well, apparently the doctors are very convinced that they can open up that pathway a little bit and whatever's pressing down on the bone spurs or anything that are pressing down the nerve, they can remove those and that'll alleviate his issues. I don't know though, I'm not a doctor. I don't know what's going on.

But he fucked up in saying that he had to get surgery before the Verdum fight. That was a big mistake. Yeah, it was. You put Bob Bennett and the Nevada State Athletic Commission in a terrible position because you're saying that you're compromised. And so then they ran some tests on him and I guess his doctor cleared him,

but the Nevada State Athletic Commission was like, look, you're going to have to have a cortisone shot and numb everything up. And even though you might have some, you know, you don't have really a problem as far as the structure of your back, you might be compromised. So they're like, can't do it. Go get the surgery. What about that French heavyweight, Nganou?

He's a dark horse. Yeah. Literally and figuratively. Yeah, yeah. But wow. do it go get the surgery what about that French heavyweight and gun who he's dark he's yeah yeah yeah yeah but Wow he's he's you're talking about Romero that I was thinking about him I'm like wow that guy is oh he's terrified monster man yeah and you know it can punch so fucking hard and he kicked so hard too and he gets into the octagon there There's certain dudes that walk in the octagon, they sound different. It's like, boom, boom, fee, fi, fo, fum. They're just bigger, man. Gonzaga was like that. Gonzaga would step on the platform to weigh in and just be like, Jesus Christ. He's made out of stone.

It's just heavier. Boom, boom. I love those elbows. You remember that he threw so over the top and threw the defense on the ground when he was in the guard. Yeah. Well, it was sweet revenge when Mirko came back and smashed him with elbows from the top in their rematch. Yeah, what a rematch.

It was crazy also. That's crazy. That fight, Mirko was saying that one of the things he doesn't like about the UFC versus Pride was that there's too much grappling and that there's too many elbows on the ground. But what won him the fight? Grappling and elbows in the ground.

It's fucking crazy. He was worried that Gonzaga was just trying to take him down and that he wasn't going to stand with him so he couldn't get his revenge from the head kick knockout. Meanwhile, he takes Gonzaga down. He's on top and he smashes him with elbows. It's so ironic. It's unbelievable, man.

What did you learn? It's a learning game. Well, he realized that's, also, when you get a guy who's that level striker like Mirko is, throwing elbows from the guard, you see how much force he can generate. He's retired again after winning the Ryzen thing. Beautiful for him, man. Yeah, good for him. What a great win.

Great way to go out on an epic career. I loved it. I mean, it's all one of the all-time faves, of course, the whole prank you pulled, but I mean, the fight with Fedor. Just, he was one of the, for me, the guy right away when you were around him was like, holy shit, man. I'll never forget his stare down with Vandele for that first fight.

Oh, yeah. The first fight, someone finally out-stared Vandele. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, he was not afraid. No, no. This guy's a fucking straight-up killer. Oh, yeah. Knicking right into your soul. Wow. No, no. This guy's a fucking straight-up killer. Oh, yeah. Knicking right into your soul.

Wow. Yeah, ready to cut your heart out with a fucking butter knife. I mean, that was no joke, man. That's why it was so easy to set him up, because Mirko didn't want to be interviewed by anybody. He wanted me to interview him, and nobody else could interview him. So that whole...

He didn't respect the media. He never showed... Remember, he never used to go to press conferences. He hated the media. Yeah. Why did he hate the media? Just because, well, there were... Remember the translation?

He... I guess there was an interview, right, with our... Remember there was an interview where I guess the Pride people were translating it wrong and he came across. He's like, F you guys. So, I mean, boss had a kinship. But, yeah, I was very intimidated, my man. And it got me good.

But he, wow. But it showed a personality, too, because that was the time where it showed, you know, he could be playful. He became your buddy now, right? Now he was. Well, most people don't know what the fuck you're talking about. But you guys played a prank on Mauro. Okay.

Well, the prank was this. He was facing, Miracle Croco was facing Ron Waterman. Now, the way we set it up, like two days before the fight, we both interview a fighter. He interviews Waterman. I interview Croco because he never wanted to do anything with Croco. He was afraid of Croco. Plus Croco said he wanted only to be interviewed by me. So I'm already, before this, I'm thinking, okay, I got to do something.

So I went to Croco and I said, listen, I'm going to interview Waterman. And then it's like, oh no, you know, it's all no moment. You're going to have to interview Mirko Krokop. Are you okay with that? He said, sure. So because he thought it was funny. So Waterman comes in, I start interviewing him.

And sure enough, when he left, I look at Mauro, I go, oh dude, I'm so sorry. And he goes, what? I said, I interviewed Waterman. So I said, well, you're going to have to interview Mirko. He goes, no, man, I don't want to interview Mirko. And Mirko never wanted to go to these interviews. He wanted to be interviewed on the day of the event in his dressing room. Yeah, that's right.

So we go to the dressing room with him. And Mirko is now all in on it. And at this moment, he starts telling, hey, you know, Walt Waterman, he said something about a funeral. And Mirko is thinking, he's for a comeback. And he says, a funeral is when somebody passes away. And then Mirko goes, I know what a funeral is. So it starts like that, and slowly but surely.

And suddenly Mirko stops and he says, you know, I didn't like the way you were commentating on my fight last time. And it wasn't him commentating, it was somebody else. So he goes, no, no, it wasn't me. No, no, it was you. And he looked at his corner, and the whole corner goes, yeah, no, it was you.

And he's looking at me. Mauro looks at me like a little help here, a little help, and I'm just looking away, you know. I'm not saying anything. And then, yeah, no, I really didn't expect, no, no, but I really wasn't doing that. But can we go back to the question? So he said, but now Mirko starts getting annoyed.

You know, and he doesn't want to ask questions anymore. He says, dude, this guy is angry. He doesn't like me. I don't want to scare him. So he gets out and we send him back. We said, no, no, you're going to have to ask him a few more questions. So he said, oh, no. He's going back and he sits down again and he starts going.

And Mirko suddenly, Mirko gets up and says, you know what? This is it. And he walks straight up to Mauro and Mauro starts pissing his pants. Of course he thinks, oh, this is over. And Mauro comes out. He says, no, no. Okay, I don't want to do it. You need one more question.

We need one more question. He goes, no, no, I don't want to do it. Oh, now I'm pissed. I'm not even, no, no, I'm like, F you guys now. And I go, uh-oh, uh-oh. And Mirko came out of the dressing room, and he started walking straight up to Mauro. And Mauro, you see him shrinking.

And he goes, dude, this is all just a joke. It was like Kaiser Suse. Remember Unusual's past? You see him shrinking, and he goes, dude, this is all just a joke. It was like Kaiser Suse. Remember, unusual path to the Olympics. Miracle coming out. He's going to fucking left kick my head off. My career's done. I'm finished.

And then he was in on it. But yeah, you guys, it was terrifying. Well, that was when he was the head of the anti-terrorist squad in Croatia. That's a badass man. He was a badass, man. Shit. Yeah, no, he did. Yeah, yeah. He had some little notches on his rifle, I guess.

Yeah, for sure. On his knife, for sure. Yeah. One of those big rainbow knives. There was some real shit going on. No, you're right. He never wanted to. He never came to press conferences, showed up to fight, and got the hell out of Dodge.

Well, he was one of the first real high-level kickboxers to enter into pride. Right, right. And once he learned how to sprawl He started lighting people up like a champion. Remember that knocked out Fedor's brother Vandele the Open way to Grand Prix Vandele was 218 was 214 what a member Vandeley and Mark Hunt with Randy Couture doing the commentary?

There's a small cunt over his right eye. Or right eye. You meant to say small cunt, Mark Hunt. Couture said that. But the atomic butt drop. Think about the weight difference there. Yeah. Holy shit.

Well, a lot of people thought that that fight kind of ruined Vandeley. And Hunt cracked him a couple of times and had him stunned in that fight. And that was one of Vandele's last fights in his prime. But he's another one, man. Right? How many just him and Quentin Rampage Jackson. How about that for a dramatic KO Halloween at Pride 28 when Jackson did very well in the rematch. And then Vandele catches him again.

And he's between the ropes and blood flowing from his. Holy crap, man. That was a bad knockout. That was a real bad one. He smashed his nose open. What's going on with Vandalee now? Vandalee's going to fight in Rizin? I heard.

Well, he was about to fight Mirko in the Rizin thing, and he didn't. He pulled out. He had an injury or something? Yeah. I don't know. He's hanging out with Bellator. Another one, man. They can't fight anymore, man, can they?

I'm not the one to say by any means, but what's the point? Well, he definitely can fight more. Well, he can fight, yeah. Whether or not his health is good. I mean, he hasn't fought in a long time now, too. You've got to think, like, this is a long time off. I remember once he told us in Pride, I go, how long, you know, typical question, how much longer do you want to do? Well, Randy Couture did it until he was 48, so I'm going to do it until I'm 50.

Now, what do you guys think about what happened with Vandele? Because with Vandele, they came to him. USADA came to him. They tried to test him, and he's like, I'm out of here, and he fucking ran. Not good. Overeem did the same thing. Remember, ran two. He flew back to Holland.

Yep. When was this? Remember, he was against me, or was it? Or what fight was it supposed to be where he was the same thing, kind of got out of dodge when the testing was looking for him. But Vanderlei's the same, yeah. I didn't know about the Alistair. Why didn't I know about that one?

Yeah, he, what was the first Alistair over? Yeah, they went the same thing. But he tried to say, well, I didn't know that you guys were. Sprints away from drug testing. Okay, so this is 2012. 2012, yeah. So that was back when it was a real, like, a real. This is really rare that you would get caught.

Yep. Yeah, see, Frank? Yeah, the mirror right there. So, yeah, I mean, it's dumb, right? Definitely not good. I'm guilty. Yeah. That's it. I'm guilty. Yeah. That's it.

I'm guilty. Yeah. But it just seems like, to me, they railroaded him. I mean, you can't just take the guy's career away. If you tested him and he was positive, that's whatever punishment he should get. If he runs away from the test, just say he's positive, and then he would have already been fighting again. Yeah. But instead, they tried to suspend him forever.

Oh, yeah, forever. Forever, right. Forever, for life. Yeah. So he got that overturned, but instead, they tried to suspend him forever. Oh, yeah, forever. Forever, right. Forever, for life. Yeah. So he got that overturned, but now he's still battling out in court. Who knows how much it cost him in court and legal expenses.

But did he do himself any favors with this interview? You know, bashing UFC, bashing everybody. Well, it was worse than that. He started making YouTube videos. YouTube, right. Like a maniac,

staring in front of the camera. Yeah, yeah. Who? Vanderlei. Vanderlei, yeah. Oh, of course. I got the present for you, friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who? Vanderlei. Oh, of course. I got the present for you, friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It just got crazy.

Yeah, I mean, it was probably some really dark moments for him. Oh, I bet. I mean, where does he make money now? Just his gym, I guess. Right? In fact,

I don't even know how successful. Well, you know, it's hard as a fighter. For me, it's hard to not do it anymore, especially not train anymore. At least when you can train, you have that but the feeling there's no feeling like it to walk

out and how you know are you training at all anymore no only just water exercise on the water and and sometimes i do with weights training my just my right arm pretty much i don't weren't you going to fight vanderlei in pride with was that show, the Dynamite show. That was officially, I was facing to fight him. They asked me, you want to fight? But I didn't fight for a long time. And I said, listen, I'd only been striking. So since this is a mix between K-1 and Pride, why don't we do a kickboxing match with the Pride gloves?

I would love to do that. But they didn't go for it. He chose another opponent at the time. But I think that would have been great. That would have been some cha-ching for you. That would have been cool.

He had a bunch of good money at the time. That would have been a crazy fight. So what's holding Ryzen back from becoming like Pride again? Superstar.

A superstar. A superstar. And they just need some big Japanese dude to come along to capture some Sakuraba type character to capture the public's Surprise they haven't capture some Sakuraba-type character. Yep.

To capture the public's imagination. Surprised they haven't brought Sakuraba back. I'm a poor guy. You're a poor guy, man. Yeah. I mean, he took some horrible, horrible... I had fun with the Metamorris. We met him when he fought Henzo again in the Metamorris in Cali.

Yeah. And Frank and I had a chance to visit with him. Frank was very close to fighting Sakuraba in Pride. They offered a big contract. Same thing. Frank was very close to fighting Sakuraba and Pride. They offered a big contract. Same thing. They couldn't come to an agreement. Well, listen, we've got to wrap this up, but you guys were a duo for some of the greatest fights of all

time. I enjoyed it deeply. I enjoyed it, and I appreciate you guys coming on. I enjoy this a lot. And let everybody know about your podcast. You've got two podcasts going on. We drop the one on Monday, Combat Sports Carousel, where we cover MMA, boxing, a little WWE, and kickboxing as well. And Boss breaks it down like a boss. And then on Fridays, it's just Boss and I riffing on a bunch of different things.

On life, movies, entertainment, comedy, Joe Rogan, Rooted and Rinello. Rooted and Rinello. If you spell it out, all A-N-D, RootedandRinello.com, you can find all the platforms there. iTunes, SoundCloud, everything. And the other one is Combat Sports Carousel. But you can find it all once you click there on the link, you see them all. All right. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you, Joe.

Thank you. Bye. Whoop. That was really cool.