The Joe Rogan Experience - #913 - Christopher Ryan

Episode Date: February 7, 2017

Christopher Ryan, PhD is a psychologist, speaker, and author of New York Times best seller "Sex At Dawn" and he also hosts a podcast called "Tangentially Speaking" available on Spotify.

do do five four three two one young jamie gave me the fake gun pointy fingers so we're live chris ryan how are you brother i'm live i'm live it's good to be live joe you haven't gotten any of this interdimensional child molester weed yet i've been probed i don't know who was doing it but somebody was probing me interdimensionally i'll tell you that we're just about to talk about getting alex jones high on the podcast before we started, and I said, save it. You got to save that. Well, see, I'm not that tuned in to who he is.

I just hear, you know, occasionally Alex Jones is this right-wing conspiracy guy. I never listened to him. So I saw he was on your show, and I was working at home doing some shit around the house. So I put it on YouTube so I could actually see him doing this, taking his things off, the headphones on and off. Oh my god and like for the first hour hour and a half i was like fuck this guy about half of what he says actually kind of makes sense to me and he's obviously really smart right high iq off the fucking charts no doubt but then he would just veer off occasionally and the more weed and whiskey got involved the more it was just like this is performance art this is just nuts this is beyond nuts once he started right right before the podcast started

man i want to get a drink and he went into there and he he had some whiskey did he have some whiskey before i got here? Might have been right as you got here. Right as I got here. So I was already here and he's like, before we get started, let me get a drink real quick. And he went back and I had a drink with him. I'm like, listen, I'm not going to let him drink alone. We're going to do this right.

But it was a dangerous proposition because Eddie Bravo was here. And Eddie Bravo is Mexican. And Joey Diaz says that Mexicans are basically Native Americans, which he's right. Yeah. You know, like there's Mexicans that were Native Americans that bred with the Spanish. You would know more about this having lived in Spain.

Yeah. And Mexico. Yeah. And I've bred with Mexicans. And Spaniards. I'll breed with anyone. Well, not breed, but attempted breeding. I've gone with Mexicans. And Spaniards. I'll breed with anyone. Well, not breed, but attempted breeding. I've gone through the motions, yeah.

But, you know, they look like some of them look like people from Spain and some of them look like Native Americans. It's kind of interesting. Like Mexico is a kind of really diverse sort of genetic line. But so, you know, the old stereotype native americans that you get them drunk and the indian goes fucking crazy well eddie bravo who's mexican joey diaz is always saying you get them drunk that fucking indian comes out and that is exactly what happened yeah so we got eddie drunk and he just went off the fucking rails with he thinks the government's spraying shit in the sky and he's been saying it forever so so much so that he's constantly he's got like this confirmation bias thing where he's constantly

looking to confirm so he just like had this agenda that he had to talk to alex jones even after he talked about interdimensional child molesters right and obama's mother being a cia sex worker he's so crazy oh he's awesome but i think people got a chance to see what i see in him because like everybody's like how could you be friends with alex jones oh my god i'm telling you he's a great guy he's a great guy he's a lot of fun and he's right about a lot of shit well the thing all right somebody emailed me this morning and they're like uh you know because i'd said i tweeted like hey this guy's actually making sense and they were like dude he's like a he denies the sandy hook massacre is that true i don't know is that true that's horrible if that's true that's it i mean that's the kind

of thing that for me it's like if he's denying that then fuck that guy he's saying you know obama's mother was a cia sex worker that's just funny but the i I mean, I don't know. You know what I think? What? This is my take on him. And like I said, I love this guy dearly. I feel like he's a high power Corvette engine. Yeah. But some of the spark plugs are not totally connected. Yeah. So, like, Obama's wife is a CIA, you know, Obama's mama is a CIA sex slave and Sandy Hook and we've got the documents

There's a few of those things that get through where maybe if he had someone next to him going Let's look at this objectively right he isn't it possible that this could be the case Or isn't it possible that that could be the case and it's the opposite what he's got is millions of people saying yeah Give us more of that right you know people fucking love conspiracy theories. They love them. They love them. And, you know, see, this is where I was. I was surprised to be agreeing with him because because we do live in a conspiracy. It is a conspiracy. Modern civilization is a fucking lie. is a fucking lie so i agree that you know where he's saying like you know we're being he was talking about sort of i think he gets into lizard people and that kind of thing i don't think he does no he doesn't get into lizard people all right well that's david ike oh okay i i get into

uh super organisms like i think we're embedded in a super organism you and i've talked about this before i think and that's why we as a species are doing things that are detrimental to our own interests as individual human beings. Because we are embedded in this superorganism just like our bacteria is embedded in us. Do you think the superorganism is the Earth itself? No, I think it's technology. Me too. Yeah. And so, I mean, you and I and Duncan talked about this a bunch when we were doing the

shrimp parade thing. Right. You know, like, because I see it as the end of humanity and that is a negative thing because I kind of like, I like the way we lived for 200,000 years embedded in the environment like other animals and pretty fucking happy and living in the moment and all that, you know? Yeah. Whereas Duncan thinks it's great that we're spreading out into the universe.

And, you know, even if we stop being humans to do that, which is. Yeah. It's a fascinating conversation. So anyway, I'm crazy, too, is my point. Right. So I think there's a certain amount of craziness that's certainly called for. I don't think you're crazy. I think you're looking at, like you're extrapolating.

You're just looking at what's going on. And I mean, it's really clear. What you're saying is absolutely correct. We're not operating in the best interest of the species, right? If we continue, did you see this new crack in the fucking Antarctica? Holy shit. It's grown over the last couple of months by like a mile. And that thing's like the size of Delaware or something enormous

And if it breaks off Foxville just a gigantic floating iceberg like the size of a state That might just you know head to Hawaii and fucking crash into it Look at this shocking animation reveals how massive how a massive Antarctic crack has grown 17 miles in the last two months Hold on scroll back and it's inevitable go back uh and experts say it's now inevitable that it will create one of the biggest icebergs ever seen holy shit inevitable the size of jamaica oh my god oh my god look at it oh jesus christ Jesus Christ Yeah, so scary

It would be so scary to see like a floating state in the ocean Fukushima the radiation is worse than ever ever Yeah, and they don't know what to do. Yeah, I have no idea how to contain it not all problems are solvable No, yeah Well that Fukushima scares the shit out of me because they don't really know how to shut off a lot of those ancient power plants. The ones that they first created, essentially, they just have to keep running. Like, whoever the fuck let, yeah, whoever the fuck let them do that. It's so crazy. They don't know how to shut them off.

Well, see, so much of technology is based on this idea that, you know, when we need, when we face the problem, we'll have an answer to it. You know, like this disposal of nuclear waste, right? Well, we'll figure that out. We'll shoot it into space or we'll bury it in to it. You know, like disposal of nuclear waste, right? Well, we'll figure that out. We'll shoot it into space or we'll bury it in some mines. You know, they kind of have. They've kind of figured out a way to turn nuclear waste into batteries. They turn it into diamonds that last for like, they embed it into diamonds and it can last.

What was it? The technology, the batteries can last thousands of years. Really? Oh, it's amazing. Well, let's get on that. Well, there was, Which podcast was it that we were doing where someone was talking about a young scientist? Do you remember who it was?

They were talking about a young scientist that has these incredible ideas. Should we get a TED Talk about it? Yeah, I was there. I met him. That was the one I did in 2012 or 11. He does this little reactor in the backyard. What's that, Jimmy?immy done too many podcasts yeah

but it was it was fairly recently just go over the fairly recent podcasts and vice did a thing on him that's it was shane smith there you go damn perfect yeah it is yeah shane smith from vice yeah um so maybe he's right or maybe people are right that we will come up with technology that's going to be able to figure out a way to solve these problems well but it doesn't see that's the thing here we are fukushima we don't have the technology we don't know how to solve it and now's when we need it yeah you know or a year ago or you know and dump we've been dumping diamond batteries making good use of nuclear waste so they're going to have these diamond batteries that last for thousands of years which is

really incredible because what Shane Smith was saying is essentially we have enough nuclear waste to power the earth for thousands of years, power civilization. Like we literally stop, we can stop all production of batteries and all the different things that we're doing. Coal. Here's where we get into conspiracy shit again. They won't let us do it. They'll shut that shit down because we'll lose jobs.

Like right now, they're trying to open coal mines again for fuck's sake. Who's they? Coal miners? Coal mine unions and coal mine presidents and the guy, Exxon. That guy from Exxon who's going to be Secretary of State, Tillerson. Wonderful. That's the guy who said, what's the point of saving the earth if humans have to suffer? Is that what he said?

Yeah. Smart guy. Ridiculous person. Anyway, so I don't want to drag us down into depression. No, no, no, no, no. This is not depressing. I think we're right, though, that what you're saying about technology and about we're serving technology. I mean, I've been saying this for a long time, that I essentially technology and about we're serving technology.

I mean, I've been saying this for a long time that I essentially think that what we're doing is giving birth. Yeah, we're a larva form. Yeah, we're like some sort of a butterfly that's going to emerge or we will be a butterfly. And we're a caterpillar right now. We're creating iPhones. And I'm a caterpillar going, God damn it, I like this caterpillar stage. I don't want to lose it. Don't you think those single-celled organisms like guys, what are we doing? We're branching out. We're fucking joining together with other cells. Fuck

that, man. I like being by myself. I like being essentially immortal, immortal, single-celled squid. It could be, but you know, some, when you're, you're, uh, advancing stage requires the destruction of your entire environment and all the other species as well, that's kind of fucked. It is fucked. But I don't know if it's all the species. I think rats will be fine. Have you watched that Netflix documentary on rats? Yeah, no.

I saw you posted some shit, and I was like, yeah, I don't want to see that. Jesus. It is amazing. No, rats will be fine. Keith Richards will be fine. Yeah, yeah. Cockroaches. It is amazing. No, rats will be fine. Keith Richards will be fine. Yeah, yeah. Cockroaches.

But, I mean, 25% of the species have gone extinct in the last generation, something like that. Well, that always happens, though. No, not at this rate. No, I mean, this is a mass extinction event, but there's always been mass extinction events. There's been a ton of them, and there's 90% of everything that's ever lived is dead. Everything that's ever living organism. But that's obscuring the reality, right? The rate of extinction right now due to human interventions is higher than it's been in probably hundreds of millions of years. Young Jamie can look that up. I don't know if that's the case. The last major extinction event was hundreds of millions of years ago. I think it was 65 million years ago. I think

it was the dinosaurs. I think it was what million years ago. I think it was the dinosaurs. I think it was what killed off the dinosaurs. And there was also a major extinction event in North America that coincided with the end of the Ice Age, about 10,000 years ago. Oh, right, which they attributed to humans. No, no, they don't anymore. Well, some people do, but what they're thinking now, due to a lot of geological data, is asteroidal impacts. Oh, Randall Carson, is he on that? on that yeah yeah i never bought that human thing i think this whole man the hunter bullshit because like they didn't

even have bows and arrows they have atlatls right which are cool they're cool they're pretty cool invention good luck killing a fucking saber-toothed tiger with that exactly the last ones too they're like five left and you're gonna hunt them down down and kill them. I don't think so. There just wasn't enough people here to do that. Right. And it's much more likely considering the fact they found these essentially like graveyards filled with woolly mammoths that died instantaneously. Right, right. The asteroid impact theory.

Also, a lot of, you know, the big game died. The giant carnivores, the big giraffes and all that shit that was here but also a lot of shellfish went extinct at the same time and snails and things like that. Here we go. Extinctions during human era worse than thought. The gravity of the world's current extinction rate becomes clear upon knowing what it was before people came along.

A new estimate finds a species die off as much as 1,000 times more frequently nowadays than they used to that's 10 times worse than the old estimate of 100 times oh that's not good and that's three years ago this is a three-year-old article isn't that funny like three years ago people like yeah this shit's old bro shit's from september bro isn't it funny like any we're moving at such a fast rate rate that our minds are kind of tuned into that. And when someone shows you something that's from a year ago, you're like, bro, you're quoting a year old stuff?

Tell me about it. I'm trying to write a book. Talk about an ancient technology. I'm trying not to refer to papers that were published 10 years ago, but how can you not? Isn't that crazy? 10 years ago is nothing know how can you not i mean it's crazy 10 years ago is nothing yeah yeah i mean darwin was a long fucking time ago it's like what we're looking at is this weird accelerated existence yeah and it's it's happening right in front of it and we've sort of acknowledged it but we're not recognizing it we've acknowledged

it well we can't comprehend it no like we're living in a world we can't comprehend, which again gets back to this whole hunter-gatherer thing. Like they lived in a world they understood. Right. You know, this whole, like we assume the generational misunderstandings are sort of common human experience. But if you're a hunter-gatherer, your parents and grandparents lived in the same world you live in. And they do now. I mean, you saw that recently uncontacteder, your parents and grandparents lived in the same world you live in. And they do now. I mean, you saw that recently uncontacted tribe, like recently contacted tribe in Brazil.

Yeah. I mean, it's incredible. They're a time capsule. They're living the way people lived 100,000 years ago. Yeah. It's amazing. It's really cool. It's really, the pictures are amazing.

Yeah. You see these people pointing bows and arrows at helicopters. You're like, what? Have you ever heard, there's a great book called At Play in the Fields of the Lord by Peter Matheson. I've heard of it. I've never read it. It's a beautiful book, man. It's a really good film too. Daryl Hannah, John Lithgow, Kathy Bates, amazing cast. But it's about, it's a novel, but it's about this, these two guys. Oh, Tom Waits is one of the actors they play

pilots they're like smugglers whatever and they get hired to go in and bomb this uncontacted tribe before the missionaries make contact with them because once they're contacted then all their land gets set aside as a reserve and this corrupt politician wants to log in and mine and all this shit. So he hires these two ne'er-do-wells to go in and bomb them. And I mean, I'm not ruining the story. This is like the first 20 pages you get the setup. And what happens is they go out and they sort of fly over the first day and they see the clearing in the jungle and all the Indians run into the jungle and then they're sort of flying low there maybe a thousand feet up and this one warrior runs into the clearing and fires an arrow

at the airplane and they're laughing like this fucking guy thinks he's gonna shoot down an airplane with an arrow you know and they go back to the village and one of the pilots it's Tom Waits and um forget the other actor but he plays a Navajo and they're like Vietnam vets bombing around South America with their plane right and they And they're back in the village and they get shit faced. And then the Tom Waits character goes to bed and the other guy's still hanging out in this little bar and somebody slips him some ayahuasca. And so he's already drunk. He drinks this ayahuasca. He's like starts hallucinating. He goes out, gets in the airplane, flies off in the airplane in the middle of the night,

flies out to this spot in the jungle where they're supposed to bomb them that day. Instead, he puts on a parachute, ditches the plane, jumps out, lands in the jungle, takes off all his clothes and his pistol, buries it in the jungle, and then walks naked into the village. Dude, spoiler alert. No, no, it in the jungle, and then walks naked into the village. Dude, spoiler alert. No, no, that's the beginning. That's the beginning of the movie? That's the beginning. Hold on a second, I'm writing this down.

What year is it? Damn, how young is he? Sexy bitch, look at him. What year was this? The film? 91. 91. Wow, back in the day, son.

I was fresh out of high school. Yeah, there's John Lithgow, yeah, school. Yeah, there's John Lithgow. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, that's how it begins. Peter Matheson's a great writer. He was a hardcore dude, real badass guy. But anyway, that's how it starts. So this guy literally goes back in time, right?

Because he's in Navajo, and when he saw that guy shoot the arrow, he sort of had this vision of how his people had lost their dignity and their culture had been destroyed. And if only they had known what they were facing. And these people in the jungle have no idea what's coming for them. Right. And so his mission is I'm going to go back and save them because I can tell them what's coming. I can move through worlds. I can move back in time. And it's fucking wild.

What a great plot. Jesus Christ. I can move back in time. And it's fucking wild. What a great plot. Jesus Christ, I'm looking high right now. You're getting the shit out of me. So, L.A., man. I'm back in L.A. Yeah, what happened? I thought you were going to be an expat. You're going to fucking get out of here before the big one landed.

Yeah. I'm still, I'm watching. I'm watching very closely. Before it all went down. Before they close the door, I got a way out. What's it like coming back right at the time when Donald Trump becomes president? It's an adventure, huh? It's strange.

I feel like, I was saying this on my podcast the other day, I feel like, you know how the solar system is moving, the whole galaxy is moving, so there are all these zones. I got to be careful, man. You should be careful. I'm going to start talking about it there are all these zones. I gotta be careful, man. You should be careful. Don't be careful. Don't be careful. There's no need to be careful. Think about Tom Waits. Is it Tom Waits? Is that the name of the actor? No, that's the singer.

Tom Waits and Tom Barringer. He's an actor too. The actor or the singer? Same guy. The same guy? Oh, okay. And then Tom Barringer, who was in Saving Private Ryan, right? Or Platoon. Platoon. He was the bad guy in Platoon with the scar on his face?

I think so. Right? Yeah. It was a great fucking movie. Speaking of meteors, did you guys see this in Lake Michigan the other day? Yeah, I did. Yeah, a giant fucking hunk of metal from the sky slammed into, or something from the sky, slammed into Lake Michigan.

Look at that. That might have actually burnt out before it hit the ground. So you see it kind of fizzling towards the end? It's amazing what the atmosphere does. Just things coming through the atmosphere. Like, remember when the space shuttle lost some tiles and then burned out in the atmosphere? I'm good, Jamie. It's just amazing that our air,

just traveling through the air at a high rate of speed, destroys things, just rips them apart, you know? Burns them up. Yeah, yeah. Well, the threat of the impact of something that's in space is ever looming and always ignored. I mean, we rarely think about it until something like this happens.

And I think it's just so scary that there's a part of our brain that just puts it off. We just go, yeah, and then move on to the next thing. Nothing you can do about it. It's definitely going to happen. It's happened before. You look up at the moon. There's an amazing video that Neil deGrasse Tyson posted on his Instagram page the other day. And it's a guy using a camera.

And he has some incredible lens on it. Oh, he zooms way in on it? Yeah. Yeah, I saw that. It's amazing. And you, I mean, he's got a really good camera. And you get really, by the way, that might not be Neil deGrasse Tyson's actual page. I think it might be like a fan page.

Because it links up to twitter and the twitter is neil degrasse tyson fan so it might not be his real instagram page well whatever it's an awesome video and it gets to um really close up when it gets really close up the thing you see is just craters yeah everywhere yeah well there's no atmosphere to protect the moon exactly yeah but then you whoa just dropped chair just dropped and then you start thinking about how much shit is out there like that thing is just covered it's just covered with well these holes but time think about how long it's been out there too you know and the one i'm worried about is the solar flare oh yeah you know because that was

it like 1880 or something there was a big one in north america and it melted out the transmission cables for the what's it called the click click mars code guys the telegraph so when that hits like all our computers are gone not just our computers our our grid yeah the transformers are out so they're saying if something like that does happen and you can never predict if or when, it would take months to get power back up. Yeah.

And people who live in like Phoenix in August, they're fucked. Yeah. I mean, because you live in a cold place, at least you could burn wood. I mean,

people did that for a long time. They figured out fire. There was actually an article recently about Neanderthals and they're trying to figure out when there's like still a debate as to whether or not they actually knew how to make fire or whether they knew how to keep it lit once they found it right you know that they would find it it would be like the sacred fire and they would keep it lit but they weren't quite smart enough to actually make it but now they're

thinking that might not be the case they might have a lot of debate on that yeah you studied a lot of like ancient civilizations how much how much debate is there like whenever I hear someone say people definitely did this they definitely did that you know like when they're looking back at evidence like as too far as far as like who could handle fire like who was the first people and when did they figure it out? How do they put all that shit together? Well, I mean, it depends on the specific case, right? Right.

In the case of fire, what they're looking at is that's, and also because it's so, there's such a scarcity of evidence, things change really quickly, right? Like for a long time they thought people crossed over the first Americans or about 10,000 years ago. And now they're saying, oh, at least 14. And now they're finding places in Chile

where it appeared to be 40,000. And now they're thinking they came over in boats and there were several different, you know, groups that came in different ways. So there's a lot of change in that because there's so little evidence

that when a new piece comes in, it really radically transforms things. But with fire, what they're looking at is, um, evidence of fire concurrent with human habitation. So with carbon dating, you can figure out the age of the coals or the stuff that's,

that's left in the, the ash. Um, and then you'd look at pieces of bone or something that they were cooking and if you get the same uh area then you can figure okay they were this wasn't a fire 10 000 years after somebody ate a rat here or something right they weren't cooking it especially if the bones show charring as well then they're cooking the food but that's just in the last 15 or 20 years, the estimate of human use of fire has gone from like 500,000 years to a million. Isn't that crazy?

They just keep backdating things. Yeah. Whew. It's so fascinating. Do you see those mounds they found in the Amazon? Really recently, they used drones and they were getting these photographs. Drones are satellites. We're getting these images from space, from above rather. Oh, that show like grids and things? Yeah, they show getting these photographs. Drones are satellites. They're getting these images from space, from above, rather.

Oh, that show, like, grids and things? Yeah, they show all these structures that they previously never recognized, didn't notice. Yeah. And some of them look like Stonehenge in the same sort of shape. Apparently, there's, like, irrigation canals and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. They have no idea.

Like, who's the, who, what's this? Yeah. I have no idea. Like, who's the, who, what's this? Yeah, I have this idea. I have a lot of, I need like a bunch of graduate students because I have ideas for books, but I never get around to writing them. That's the story of my life. You should be like a. I need a staff. Yeah, you should be like a guy who tells, like, people, we need to work on this.

You're curious, but you're not disciplined. Yeah, yeah. Or you don't have the time, honestly. I got ideas, but you're not disciplined. Yeah. Yeah. Or you don't have the time. I got ideas, Joe. I got all my ideas. I mean, between doing your podcast, writing your book and living your life, how much time do you have left? Yeah. Living my life takes up a lot of time. I like that about you. I appreciate that about you. I really do. I appreciate that you, uh, you have a very, um, very, it's, it's an intelligent intelligent but it's an honest way of looking at time you know you don't have like this overwhelming ambition and you don't have like this overwhelming desire to be recognized

or anything like that but you do have an overwhelming desire to have fun and be comfortable and be curious so you're saying i'm a lazy fucking hippie is what you're saying. I'm saying you're having a good time. I think you might be doing it right. I got all the people that I know that are super smart. You're like the least stressed, super smart dude I know. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.

For real. Can I quote you on that? Yes. I'm going to put that on my next book. But you are, man. I mean, considering you're always like moving around, you're always enjoying different parts of the world, you're always coming back with these crazy stories and interesting perspectives. You've gathered up, but you don't seem stressed.

And so many people that I know that are like in your intellectual realm are fucking freaking out all the time. Yeah, I know what you mean. I mean, if I'm stressed, it's I get stressed by my lack of stress. That's my biggest problem, really. Dude, I think you're built for podcasts. I really do. I think your mind and your curiosity, it's like you're trapped in this medium. I mean, it's not that I don't think your book is great.

I thought Sex at Dawn was amazing. Why do I keep coughing? Is that the weed? Sex at Dawn was amazing, but you're really well suited for podcasts. You're really well suited for free form conversations. You could tell you enjoy it. And again, it's not very stressful. No.

That's what I love about it. I did one last night. I occasionally do what I call a Roma ranting out my ass episode. And it's where it's just me. It's no guest, right? So last night I did one. I call a Roma ranting out my ass episode. And it's where it's just me. It's no guest. Right. So last night I did when I'm drinking beer, I'm like reading letters from people and yeah, I go on off on whatever the fuck I'm going off on.

And it occurred to me later like that, you know, I'm not dealing with the kind of numbers you're dealing with, but you know, I've got a stadium of fucking people listening to me. Yeah. A fucking stadium. Right. I've got a stadium of fucking people listening to me. A fucking stadium, right? But I am more relaxed than if I were talking to a friend on the phone.

Because I don't see anybody. I'm just alone, drinking a beer, talking into this microphone. And I don't feel the presence of anyone listening. So I'm totally fucking relaxed. Sometimes to my detriment. I probably say things I shouldn't say and share shit that I meant to keep private or whatever. But it is a weird thing. I mean, like Jamie and I were talking about this earlier.

Like when you said, hey, Chris, it's been a while. It's like, yeah, I'm going to go hang out with my buddy Joe. Yeah. But there are a fucking million people hovering around here listening to us. You know, it's really weird. Like 90% of my friendship with you has taken place here. I know, right? It's so, and it's Duncan's the same, you know, Ari's the same, Moshe Kasher. I've got all these friends who I only see when we're on a fucking mic.

You know, what's really interesting is Duncan and I, we were having a really hard time spending time together because he's always busy. We were having a really hard time spending time together. Yeah. Because he's always busy. We'd have a really hard time. Only a few times we got together and just hung out as friends over the last couple of years. But we did so many podcasts together. It adds up.

We would get together for that. Yeah. And we'd have these conversations. One thing that's unique about this form is that you have these conversations that are like so isolated from any distraction. And I don't think that exists anywhere else anymore. That's a good point. Just two people looking at each other. That's why I don't like when people look at their phones.

I don't like when people like bring a laptop or something like that. It's like, man, I try to close mine now. I used to not. I used to look at it. It's not smart. The smart thing to do is just put it down. And this form of conversation,

I would encourage people to have podcasts, to have their own podcast, thing to do is just put it down and this form of conversation that could like the kind of like i would encourage people to have podcasts to have their own podcast not even if they want to they don't even have to release it but by doing it by just the act of doing it you're you're having these conversations these extended conversations with people and i think it it exercises your thought process in a way and the engagement process. It focuses your mind. People used to say, some famous writer said, I write to see what I think. Yeah, I've heard that. I think podcasting is sort of the same the way you're describing it.

It's true. It's one place where we turn off all the distractions and just focus. Yeah. Yeah. My plan now is to get a van. I want to get a sprinter van and put a bed bed in it and, you know, a little kitchen. Travel the country? Travel the country doing podcasts.

Ooh, that's a great idea. And I had this other idea because I see you've got enough weight that people will come to you, but I don't want to do shit on Skype and phone. Me neither. I hate that shit. Yeah, it feels weird, right? Yeah, there's delays and you're talking over each other and you can't see the body language you don't know if they're disengaging from what you're talking about or they're getting uncomfortable maybe you're getting too personal you know i really like being in a room with

somebody yeah also the kind of people that i have on my podcast are like you they're people you want to know they're interesting fucking people you know so i want to like hang out and meet their friends and meet the the husband or the wife and the kids and you know sit i want to like hang out and meet their friends and meet the the husband or the wife and the kids and you know sit in the driveway in my van for a few days and get to know the crowd and i was thinking i'd love to meet um what's his name down in bisbee your buddy uh the doug sano yeah i'll hook it up i'd love to meet doug and bimbo not bimbo bingo bingo yeah you'd love them my buddy uh jake johansson do you know him comedian sure love jake jake's great guy so i was at his house and he we were talking about how comics think

differently because i was like i love hanging with you guys because nobody gets offended about anything you can just say whatever the fuck comes out of your head out of your mind right and he was like we're talking about podcasts and i said something about stanhope and he's like dude you got to listen to the cliffhanger episodes have you heard those no what did he do oh my god no there it was like three years ago i went back into the archives and archives and found them he had it was this thing where he has this couple living in the house in the backyard and like they'd met by chance and then it turned out that he had fucked the woman 15 years earlier after a gig in reno or something and so now she's with her boyfriend and they're living in the backyard and they're all, and the four of them are all, the two couples, I guess,

had a sexual thing, and it was all cool, and it was just really beautiful, and they're talking about how they met and the history of the relationship and all that. The boyfriend's there, the girlfriend's not there. It turns out the girlfriend's in the hospital about to have open heart surgery. That was the cliffhanger. Holy shit. So at the end of this hour and a half half two hour conversation where they're talking about this you know this relationship it turns out like she's gonna have open heart surgery she might be dead folks tune in next week to find out if she's dead and they're laughing but they're laughing and this was jake's point they're processing grief through laughter. Yeah. And there is nothing,

and they're not denying how intense and sad and scared they are. Right. But they're still laughing. Isn't it funny that grief over death is one of the few things where we demand you behave a certain way? Well, they're Irish wakes, right? Where everybody gets drunk and laughs. Yeah, but...

And tells crazy bawdy stories about the dead guy that's how you celebrate the life that's a good way yeah i think it's a very this this imposed sadness this sort of seriousness i think is very sort of protestant yeah there's there's a little bit of that but there's also i think we want to know who feels bad you know because if you don't feel bad like tribally i think that's a little bit of that, but there's also, I think we want to know who feels bad, you know, because if you don't feel bad, like tribally, I think that's a very dangerous person to have around. Like say if you die. Oh, it's like a psychopath filter or something.

Yeah. Yeah. I really think there might be something to that. Like we might enforce it and there might be like this, uh, urge and instinct to enforce extreme grief because we feel like people who, who don't feel that are either not on my team, really didn't care about the person that I cared about, or might be a psycho. Right.

Right? Interestingly, some cultures have professional mourners. Like Greece. They teach you how? Japan. No, you pay them to come to the funeral. Oh, no. And they'll wail and scream and cry

and they'll express the emotion so the other people can just sort of chill and go to the buffet. Did you see after Kim Jong-un, no, Il. Kim Jong-il died in North Korea that people were being punished because they didn't mourn hard enough. They got six month jail sentences because they didn't mourn hard enough. And they were just the worst fake acting, like throughout the streets and they're filming it for their Propaganda films. Yeah, but it's like see if you can pull some of it up. It's kind of hilarious It's it's hilarious and terrifying North Korea

Terrifies me and what one of things that terrifies me the most about it is that it is in our face every day direct evidence that things could go terribly wrong at any point in time with human beings and we got so fucking lucky that we're born whoever you are that you can listen to this and not have to worry about being locked up for possessing it whether it's in england or norway or canada or wherever you're listening to this we got so lucky you could have easily been born in north korea any of us can been born in a prison in north korea where you're born as a prisoner and you'll die as a prisoner and that's going on right now in 2017 there is a fucking military dictatorship and they're killing people

and imprisoning people and the lights are off at night when you fly over it they take satellite footage of it you see the lights are all off like these people wailing on the street. I Mean it is fucking uber bizarre There they're all on their knees Wailing but not a goddamn tear to be seen They're just just throwing there I mean, they're probably scared to that they're to be beaten if they don't wail hard enough, so they're scared of that. Well, that'll make you cry. That forces the

emotion. But this is, it is unbelievable that human beings, no different than us, there's no difference between them and us. They're just there. Yeah. That guy could be your neighbor. Like, one of those people wailing could be, you know, Francis, your neighbor, and he could be this awesome guy like, dude, what's up

man? How are you? Oh, everything's good, you know, blah, blah, blah. Same could be this awesome guy like, dude, what's up, man? How are you? Oh, everything's good. You know, blah, blah, blah. Same guy. Could be the same guy. He just got born in a better, better spot. These are all women, oddly enough. This is all women wailing.

Oh, there's some men. They have to separate so they don't fuck while they're crying. They don't want any fucking monkey business while you're screaming. Look at these guys crying. Look at them. It's so strange. It's fucking so strange. But this is happening today.

So I understand this is a different part of the world. But we have to all recognize that it's just dumb luck that we were born here. Because there's these systems that exist. Whenever you have gigantic groups of people that are at least fairly isolated. And these systems, these operating systems, they get enforced. And it doesn't matter where they are. Once they get enforced, they're super difficult to break. Like those Surrey women who cut their lip and stick those plates in them and stretch their lips out and do like that's that's a part of a system that exists in that area.

And that system is like there's the women are trying to get away from it now. And a lot of women are like, I don't want to slobber all the time. I don't knock my teeth out to put some fucking stupid plate in. I heard of a tribe where women laser the hair off their pussies. Oh, I heard about that one. Sometimes they wax it, right? And they used to just shave it. Exactly.

They used to just shave it. And they wear these shoes with like a big spike on the back so they can't walk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's incredible the things people will do. And the women wear these like really short skirts. I described like Megyn Kelly's outfit in my bit. There's a bit I'm working on right now that I talk about, which she's wearing. It's basically a vagina curtain. Yeah, I saw your bit the other night.

Yeah, I mean, literally it's what it is. I mean, it's just these beautiful women on TV, on the news, and they're wearing something that just, there's, you know, you could lift that up and fuck her with it. That's part of the game. That's what a skirt is. Lift her up. That's the whole point of it. Lift it up.

That's why that fatal attraction scene with Susan, what was her name? Not Susan. Sharon Stone. Sharon Stone. Yeah. That's why it was so impactful because we've all imagined that a million times, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's amazing. You know, she did, look at that. Kit the fuck out of Dodge. It's just a shadow. If she didn't have that clipboard there blocking the light, the glorious light, look at this. This is crazy, man. That's a crazy outfit.

That is a sex outfit. And I like her. I think she's very smart. She's a very interesting woman. And I'm curious to see what happens to her now that she's at NBC. Maybe she'll come on the Joe Rogan experience. I don't want it, but be across from her. I'll stammer. You'd stammer? I'd panic. You could do it from

a remote location? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'd have to do that one by Skype. I don't be near. Call me in. I'll guest host. I can handle it. I can do it. I have a thing for ice princesses. As long as I don't get high. Do you like the ice princess? There's something about me that I think that a very powerful

articulate woman like that it's very very exciting well see because that's it you're the opposite of me you were saying i'm like a stress-free kind of guy you're all about the challenge only something i'm not like i'm not trying to fuck or anything like not like that kind of challenge but i am fascinated like you came here from working out yeah right you know and then you like you because it's funny you talked about my life being like this sort of carefree easygoing thing i think of you you're like you're like the martha stewart of men or something like you do everything how do you do you're living like i i drop your

name occasionally and someone would be like oh the the podcast guy like yeah yeah and like his friend will go wait i thought he was the ufc guy yeah yeah that too like but wait isn't he the like you have nine lives and you're living them all how the fuck do you do that i don't know And his friend will go, wait, I thought he was the UFC guy. Yeah, yeah, that too. But wait, isn't he the... You have nine lives and you're living them all. How the fuck do you do that? I don't know. You're like Mr. Efficiency. You never sleep.

I sleep pretty good. Plus you're a father, you're a husband. I do all that stuff. I think it's an illusion that it takes more time than it does with all the stuff that I do. So do you ever just chill? Fuck yeah. Really? I chill when I watch documentaries and shit. But see, that's not chilling. That's watching documentaries. That's how I chill. I do you ever just chill? Fuck yeah. Really? I chill when I watch documentaries and shit.

But see, that's not chilling. That's watching documentaries. That's how I chill. I can't chill, chill, chill, chill. You don't just get in your hammock and put your hands behind your head and go, doop, doop, doop, doop. You never do that. My brain doesn't work like that.

See, that's half my day right there. Okay, we gotta do something. Come on, figure it out. How long is your shower? I love showers. You take long ones? Yeah, like a nice 10-minute hot shower. Oh, okay.

So much pleasure in showers, dude. You have like a good shit in the shower, and that's your chill time. I went to Alaska, to Prince of Wales. No. Yeah. Yeah, Prince of Wales Island. And it is this unbelievably wet spot. And it rains there more than I think anywhere else in North America

It's incredible. I mean, it's just constantly drenched with rain southeast. I don't know. I don't know where it is Geographically I flew in for this TV show meat-eater with my friend Steven Rinella and my friend Brian Callan and Yannis Poutelis And we went to this island. It was amazing It was amazing experience so beautiful and so remote and so crazy and it wasn't even a successful hunting trip but it was amazing the experience is amazing but one of the most amazing things about it was that i was wet and uncomfortable in this weird sort of environment where you never really get dry because it's constantly raining yeah for five or six days and then when i got home i was so happy I was so happy I was happy in a way that I had

never been before yeah in a way during a regular day just driving down the street to the studio and coming in and hanging out with Jamie and doing a podcast and I just felt so good I felt so good you felt good to be back or just that it's like you see it wasn't I feel good to be back or just that it's like it see wasn't I feel good to be back It was I feel good. I feel really good and I think that Especially for California the weather here is so goddamn good That we have a few days where it rains and people literally start to complain Yeah, I'm like, do you know how crazy it is that you're complaining that it rains maybe ten days a year out of 365.

And the fucking light is so beautiful after the rain. It's amazing. It's so clear. It's amazing. There's no bugs. Okay. I mean, this place is so easy to get by with. There's very little wildlife that we're ever concerned with.

We just live this idyllic, idyllic. What's the word? Idyllic. Idyllic. Idyllic. It sounds wrong though, doesn't it? Well, it's an idol. It's not an idol. It's an idyll. We live a fairytale life, you know, for anywhere, anyone else, anywhere in the world. And I think just coming here from the rain soaked Island, like, as I was driving around, I was, I would realize like, Oh, at least for me me i have to go through some intense struggle

to appreciate normal existence there is no yang without yin that's for me for sure and there's no comfort without discomfort so for me like for me to be happy and calm and like sit here and talk to you i gotta beat the fucking shit out of a heavy bag for an hour. See, I wish I had that. Just do rounds and wail on that thing. I wish I had that hunger, that need. I've got friends like, I can't relax if I don't run three miles a day. Like, fuck, I wish I had that. I can get out of bed and go right to the hammock.

I'm fine. I don't need to do anything. It's good. It's good that you can do that. Well, but it is and it isn't. See, I don't get shit done. I need more of that because I'd get more shit done.

But then it's like, why get shit done? You know, like, what am I trying to get to if I'm already there? That's why I think podcasts are your shit. Yeah.

Because podcasts, you can just, effortless, just turn it on and do it. And maybe like the way you're doing it with that ranting, the Roma one.

Yeah. That's a great idea. Bill Burr does that and it's incredibly entertaining yeah bill burr's podcast one of the best podcasts you'll ever listen to and it's always just him i always watch when he's on your show you guys have a good thing i love him he's amazing and his new comedy uh netflix special rather is out now it's called uh walk your way out it's out right now i haven't seen it yet but i saw him do all that material, so I'm sure it's going to be fucking amazing. Yeah, he's great.

Yeah, he's, you know, he's a hard worker, too. You know, that guy, he works on F is for Family. He's got his own animated show. He works on that. Works on a stand-up. Does his podcast

twice a week by himself. He just had a kid recently? Just had a kid very, very recently. He's got a whole intense family thing going on. Yeah, a lot going on. Great guy a great guy it is funny i mean jamie and i were talking about this earlier how like la i've been here a couple months now so i'm sort of getting my head back into it

everything's the opposite here like even to the point where people think like oh you're living in la they're picturing hollywood where you live and where i live it's fucking owls and coyotes yeah it's like yeah it doesn't look like especially where you live where you live is like one of the most awesome spots around i love it it's ridiculous it's like montana or something yeah it's crazy yeah it's beautiful so a lot of hippies though a lot of hippies but you don't see them they smell dude i was sitting i was walking but there's a lot of fresh air so you know it's they're outdoors. It's like a dirty dog. It doesn't offend you.

You don't get that close to it. Exactly. I was hiking up in the hills in Topanga a couple weeks ago, and I'm sitting there on this trail, taking in the view. And I hear these two guys coming up the trail, and they can't see me because it's a curve. And they're talking, and the one guy says uh so are you feeling anything yet so and the other guy's like well my legs feel a little funny but you know so either he took viagra and they're going to go to the woods to fuck see that didn't even occur to me joe i don't know i don't know why it occurred to you you ready to do this or what bro

feeling anything yet he loosened it up yeah it occurred to you. You ready to do this or what, bro? Feel anything yet? You loosening up? Yeah, it was a bit that I used to do about edibles. Whereas like the worst thing you could ever hear someone say after they take an edible is, I don't feel shit. I'm going to take another one. Yeah, no, don't do that. It's always the case, right? Don't do that.

When people just, you feel it? Not really. You want to go one more? Yeah. Yeah, fuck it. And then an hour and a half later, you're in terror. Just a deep, deep're in terror just a deep deep state of terror yeah yeah i was called in to consult on a case in spain with a guy that was in

a mental hospital and um the psychiatrist who was treating him was a friend of mine and knew that i took a lot of drugs and this guy didn't hadn't taken any drugs so he's like could you just come in and like talk to this guy and see what you think, you know? So I meet with the guy and I'm like, so what's your story man? He's like well look I was in Amsterdam and I ate a brownie and I wasn't feeling anything And so then I took these mushrooms and you know and next thing I know I woke up I was in a jail cell naked and i had i started walking down this apparently they told me i was screaming and singing it i was like so but are you all right

man he's like yeah i'm fine but everyone thinks i'm crazy because of this thing and it's just like i keep telling him it's no big deal it's like all right it's like the guy from the tom barringer movie yeah exactly he's just like so i talked to my friend i'm like. He's like the guy from the Tom Berringer movie. Yeah, exactly. He's just like, so I talked to my friend. I'm like, the guy's fine. The guy's not crazy. He just like ate too many fucking brownies in Amsterdam. It happens to everybody eventually. Yeah.

If you eat brownies, like too many brownies and mushrooms together. Yeah. That's not good. But they work together though. That's one of the interesting things about marijuana and psilocybin. They're very complimentary. Like that was what McKenna used to do when he would take a mushroom trip he would eat the mushroom and then he would wait um for it to kick in and while he was waiting for

it to kick in he would roll joints and so he would just roll a shitload of joints and then just start smashing the joints and then the marijuana would sort of like reach out and grab the psilocybin and embrace it and just create this tornado of awesomeness. And that's how we used to trip. And he used to do it by himself. McKenna's thing was about silent darkness. He was really concerned with experiencing the psychedelic state in a very undisturbed manner. Like to him, the idea of taking mushrooms a very undisturbed manner.

Like to him, the idea of taking mushrooms and going to amusement park was insane. He had no desire to do anything like that. He just wanted to figure out. And I think what is the quote? Each time he would try to see how much more he could stand. And he would do that for a while. Maybe he was describing another guy when he's talking about that. Now that I think about it, but he was like a proponent of five dried grams.

He would, he called it heroic dose. Yeah. That fucking heroic dose got me in trouble. I was reading McKenna and I got this acid from a friend of mine i can't talk about where it came from but it was like one of these sources where it's like holy shit like really from that source okay right from albert hoffman's lab pretty much that kind of thing yeah so uh because i like i used to be very embedded in that world of scientists who were doing hallucinogenic research and stuff. Anyway, so I can't tell the whole story.

But I decided to take a heroic dose because it was like, I'm not going to do a lot more acid in my life. Might as well go out with a bang. And I took the stuff. How much did you take? Well, it was liquid. well it was liquid uh funnily enough what happened was i this psychiatrist who was a friend of mine he hadn't done any drugs since the 60s back in the days when you could order acid from sandos and they'd send it to you jesus christ right how long did that last that lasted till it was made illegal in 64 or something like that i thought it was all what didn't um lsd go down

with that sweeping psychedelic sacks of 1970 or could have been later was that maybe lsd went down before that and psilocybin went on afterwards i don't know there was a bunch of them that were made illegal in 70 right even ones that aren't even psycho under. Under Nixon. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, in any case, they, you know, it was marketed, LSD was marketed to doctors and to psychiatrists and psychologists who would take it in order to experience psychosis so they could better treat their patients. It was called a psychotomimetic. So you could just order it and take it and like, oh, this is what it's like to be psychotic. And now I understand better. But you think about, I mean, from a medical perspective, think about the nobility of that.

Like what a cool doctor. And what an interesting time where it was like, hey, we all need to experience nine hours of insanity so that we'll be better psychiatrists. That's a pretty fucking cool thing. That is very cool. It's a very cool way of looking at it, right? Yeah. It's a lifeguard who jumps into the water and not a lifeguard who stands on the beach and throws you a pill. Yeah.

If you talk to a psychiatrist and the psychiatrist doesn't have any psychedelic experiences, you can understand it. Because, you know, especially if you're an academic, you want to be respected. Psychedelic experiences for the most part are illegal. And, you know, people get weird about it. And I can understand wanting to keep it under wraps. But if you're not really interested in it at all, how much are you studying the mind? Exactly. And you're not experiential evidence is invalid. I mean, come on. It's very valid. We know that there's some extreme effects that happen with some very potent psychedelics like sage.

What is it called? What do they call it? Salvia. Salvia. Salvia divinorum, which is essentially sage, right? That stuff will blow your fucking mind Yeah, and that shit was available in head shops just a few years ago It is one of the most potent psychedelics known to man. I think it was Ari

Who had he did it and he he had a life he lived a whole life Like three years he felt like he lived a life. He had friends, he had girlfriends, he broke up with them, he had jobs, like the whole deal. The matrix. And then he came back and he was only gone for like 10 minutes on this couch on a salvia trip. Did we isolate that in a clip? Is that what you're looking for? Yeah. There's a clip of him doing it and then he talked about what happened later

I think it was with you. Yeah, I don't want to Duncan's podcast, but here's the clip of him doing it Yeah, I'm like one of Brian's old podcast. Yeah naughty show Sam Tripoli's podcast on Brian's death squad Network and so he Ari's So he's gone there and and they're all laughing and talking hee ha ha while this guy's tripping his balls off like he's in another dimension don't take him off to please do it please i'm not joking i'm not seriously i'm not serious. Whoa.

You're fine, Ari. Ari, you're fine, buddy. Ari, you're okay, buddy. They need to just get away from him and leave him alone. Oh, my God. He was chirping so hard. All right. You're all right.

Hey. Didn't he think he was, like, suffocating or something? He explains it during that podcast. Yeah. Yeah, during the podcast, he explained it. He's suffering there. But what happened, I think, is they were just probably talking too much, and and he probably snapped out of it and he was in the middle of this haze of reality and illusion i think doing something like that like you got to be around people

they're going to be quiet you know when you do it you know they're quiet when they do it you're quiet and i'll just sit there yeah i did uh after i saw you saw you about a year ago i think i went from here to Mexico. I went to that Ibogaine Clinic in Tijuana. Oh, you did, huh? Yeah. How was that? I didn't do the experience. I was just there.

Just wanted to see what it was like? Yeah, I was doing a podcast with the doctor who works there. And I met some people down there who had 5-MeO DMT, the cane toad or the toad thing. And I did that. That that was really intense i'd never done dmt before i'd done ayahuasca but never smoked dmt 5meo is the really weird stuff because it's very empty you uh you go away like you go you go to the center of the universe you become everything i guess yeah how strong i mean how much of a dose did you get did you blast off I blasted off yeah yeah did you feel like that like you were gone uh the first few minutes or you know who knows

how many minutes or time whatever but the the first period um yeah there was that sort of ego dissolution where it's not me having this experience it's just fucking experience right now it's just what it is just colors and shapes and wow holy fuck right but then in my case and this just reminded me of it watching ari there in my case what happened was i got uh overwhelmed by sadness like i've because people some people i'm close to are going through really heavy shit in the last couple of years and you know you sort of you feel compassion and you you check in with them and you you compassion literally means to feel together right and so you feel it with them but on another level it's like i'm not the one who's got ms you know i'm not the one who's you know

got chronic pain and you know suffering all this not the one who's, you know, got chronic pain and, you know, suffering all this shit. Um, so there's a separation, but what I experienced with that was the absence of separation. And I, I was just immersed in the sadness of people I love and, you know, seeing them suffering and not being able to help them. And it was overwhelming, man. I mean, I cried like a baby literally. Wow. My first thought, my first conscious thought was, remember when I write the Yelp review of this experience to mention that the music should be different. What? Wow. Because the music sucked. It was this bullshit new age shit music.

And I was like, if you're going to play music, play some fucking Bach or something. Don't play some Yanni or whatever the fuck this is. Yeah. Because, you know, not that I use Yelp a lot, but it was just sort of like, you know, remember to mention this. This could improve the experience for other people. You know, what a weird way of thinking. That's a very weird way of thinking. So I had like this super profound experience encased in the most trivial bullshit imaginable

i guess stanhope did that 5meo dmt back when you could buy it online yeah and he did it at my place we did it together but he had never done it before i had done it a few times when he and i did it and he did it and i've never seen anybody get hit by it harder like he literally he was like slumped on my couch and he was making he was groaning like it was it was disturbing it was it was so it was so extreme that I was wondering like I knew that this is like something that the human body makes I knew that it's one of the most transient drugs ever observed in the body. Your body brings it back to baseline really quickly. But not at that dosage.

But I don't know how much. He didn't take that much. He didn't take any more than I took. But it hit him like a goddamn Mack truck. And he came out of it. And he just kept saying, life, life just becomes life. And then eats life and becomes life kept saying life life just becomes life and then eats life and becomes life and just life just becomes life and she just goes on it just goes on yeah it just goes on there's no denying that he's just looking at me like wow i go you tripped your balls off son

yeah like but i was worried i was like i can't kill my friend i was literally worried for a few minutes i was like what if his body just can't handle it like because doug is world famous for abusing himself cigarettes and booze and it's just fucking he's got hernias he can stick out he could like flex his stomach and things will pop out of his gut i'm not bullshitting he's hilarious but you know he's a maniac he just there's that's not a game man he's not he's not playing an act yeah that's doug that he is who he is and i was thinking maybe this is like slapping a corvette engine into a 1969 dodge dart that's got 289 000 miles and shaky bad brakes and it just seemed like whoa what have i done yeah i shot him through

because that when i did it it felt like i got shot through a cannon it was like like the the experience of the launch like it came on slow like it came on like it took a few seconds and then once it hit it just it's almost like you're pulling back against a catapult band or a rubber band or slingshot just and then it was just flying to know me yeah so like where i flew to there was no me there was no difference between me and the air that's in front of me and the the wood that makes this table and the floor beneath and all the different molecules and atoms I can broke down The existence of everything to some strange Geometric level and it was really intense and totally colorless. It's like a big white thing

Like it would bring you to this weird geometric white thing Whereas DMT is like nn dimethyltryptamine is five methoxy dimethyltryptamine is five mu and it's just a different visual experience than nn dimethyltryptamine which is the one that brings you these intense visions of geometric patterns and dancing like the last time i did it they were dancing jokers that were giving me the finger. They just kept giving me the finger. And I was like, oh, yeah, I deserve that. I felt it like as they were doing it. They're like, fuck you.

Fuck you. And I was realizing like, oh, someone needs to say that to me. Like, oh, I'm being a silly person. Like by even trying to control this trip. Like by even like thinking that like, oh, I'm just going to go into this. I've been doing, I've been a good boy. I've been doing my yoga and eating healthy. And this should be a good, good trip. Fuck you. It was like, I'm just going to go into this. I've been doing, I've been a good boy, but doing my yoga and eating healthy and this should be a good, good trip.

Fuck you. It was like, fuck you. You got no control out of this. You better relax. That's what makes it a heroic dose. You got to let go. Well, all DMT is a heroic dose. Once you pass that three hit threshold, goodbye.

See ya. You're gone. There's no micro dosing. No, you're gone. You're gone or you're gone. You're just gone. Yeah. That. You're gone. You're gone or you're gone. You're just gone. Yeah. That heroic dose I took, I ended up, I mean, the story was a lot of weird shit happened.

So you never got done explaining how much did you actually take? Four hits. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. Because I gave this old psychiatrist three hits and I saw him a couple of weeks later and he was like, oh, that was good, clean stuff. You know, no problem. And I thought, well, that guy's in his 60s could take three, I'll take four.

I met this dude in Montana recently. Very nice guy. His name's Jeff. He was working with us on this meat eater show. And he told us that he took 25 hits of acid one night. See, back in the day, I did five or six or whatever. But I felt like there's a plateau. Like, I couldn't trip any harder than I tripped.

So I don't know that 20 would be... Yeah, he just went with it, he said. Forget how he described it. He just went with it. Last night I watched this documentary called The Sunshine Makers about the guys Owsley and the two guys who were making orange sunshine together, the famous acid of the 60s. Oh, yeah. And one of the guys was like...

That's all Sandoz, right? That's all Sandoz Labs? No, that was the legal shit in Switzerland. It was legal? This is the guys in California and Colorado, briefly, who were making the illegal stuff. Oh. And who was that?

Orange Sunshine. I forget. There's two guys. One guy was... There it goes. Jamie's got it. Oh, it's a documentary yeah

Nicholas Sand and Tim Scully the unlikely duo at the heart of the 1960s American drug counterculture wow yeah it's quite good it's so weird that that was so incredibly recent

but within like a few decades they had basically erased all evidence of it from culture except for a few fringe people you know yeah I mean talk about old research there were thousands tens of thousands They had basically erased all evidence of it from culture except for a few fringe people. You know? Yeah.

I mean, talk about old research. There were thousands, tens of thousands of scientific papers published on how hallucinogens affect the brain. In fact, the serotonergic system, the whole understanding of neurotransmitters really was fueled by trying to understand how so little LSD could make you so high. was fueled by trying to understand how so little lsd could make you so high that's what that's what got people into looking at neurotransmitters and the effects on consciousness in the late 50s anyway i mean we could talk forever about how uh hallucinogens have changed culture but uh what the hell was i saying oh so you took four in the movie this guy says yeah but the movie this guy says um you know he's talking about how they're, like, doing the vats. He's a chemist. He's like, every once in a while, you know, you, like, touch something, and it's hot.

And you go, oh. And you put your thumb in your mouth. And you're like, oh, I just took 200 micrograms of LSD. Like, oh, well. They were high all the time while they were working. Yeah. And that's actually 20 hits, roughly. 2,000 micrograms. Oh, my God. Now, isn't roughly, 2,000 microwaves.

Oh, my God. Now, isn't there like a number, like someone told me this, this is maybe one of those urban myths, like you have to register your hands as lethal weapons once you get your black belt. That was an urban myth, too. But isn't there an urban myth that like if you do a certain amount of acid, you're considered legally insane? I heard that.

I don't know. I don't know if that's true. I hope it is because then I'm like free and clear. Let me see. Jamie, is it real? I've heard that my whole life as well. I was a kid if that's true. I hope it is because then I'm free and clear. Let me see. Jamie, is it real? I've heard that my whole life as well. I remember hearing that when I was a kid too. Yeah.

Do you remember hearing that it's bullshit? Yeah, it was like seven hits will make you insane. Yeah. You're gone, bro. Like legally. So anything you do afterwards, if you can prove you tripped at least whatever, seven times. I've met people that have done big doses of acid and some of them have had a really hard time grasping regular reality. And I wonder if there's a correlation.

I wonder if there's a connection between like some of them have like really distorted perceptions of what's going on right now in terms of like an experience will happen and they'll have a version of the experience. And you'll relay your version of that experience and they didn't remember that at all. And you're like, man, I don't know who's got this right because memory is kind of a slippery thing. But I don't remember him saying that to you, man. I don't remember someone doing that to you. I don't remember that going down. People have these weird perceived interactions that maybe are a little skewed. I always wonder, is it the 39 hits of acid you took one night?

Did you blow a fuse? Can you blow a fuse? But isn't it like somebody who works out and they mess up their back and you say well you could blame it on working out or you could blame it on working out wrong or you could blame it on the fact that you probably already had a structural issue in your back that this just uncovered so i think a lot of people who have bad experiences or end up fucked up from hallucinogens they're they were going to be fucked up anyway. And there are psychotic breaks, you know, like this kid that I talked about earlier in Amsterdam.

He had a psychotic break. But generally, you can recover from that and you'll be fine unless there's some underlying structural issue in your personality. You know, so I don't know. I think it's multifactorial like everything is ultimately. I think you're totally right. It completely makes sense. And it's one of the things that you've got to think about when you talk about food or alcohol or anything that people wind up getting addicted to.

People can blow their brains out on a variety of different substances that are readily available. We're always looking for the reason for the effect, but normally it's a million reasons for an effect. But it's no consolation if your son goes crazy from taking acid. It's one of those things, if acid became legal and your son walked into a CVS and bought acid and did too much with his friends and never came back and you had to take care of him when he's 50. No, it's no consolation, but a lot of people have psychotic breaks when their girlfriend breaks up with

them the first time. It's true. So are we going to blame women for psychosis? I know. It's hard to describe or to really recognize like what is a psychotic break? What is like real mental illness? And when are you just being a bitch? Well, a professional should be able to recognize.

I would hope so. At least when you're just being a bitch. Isn't there an edge? Is there an edge to like mental illness and just being a bitch? Yeah. Like a fucking. We're talking about psychosis, right? Right, right, right.

So neurosis. I'm just going to call her one more time. Dude, don't call her. I've got to call her. No, you don't. You don't have to call her. The universe is telling me to call her. I have to talk to her right now.

She'll understand once I talk to her. Dude, there is a restraining order. Stop. Do you want't have to call her. The universe is telling me to call her. I have to talk to her right now. She'll understand once I talk to her. Dude, there is a restraining order. Stop. Do you want to go to jail? I'm just going to knock on her window. Don't fucking do it. There's people that get obsessed with people when it comes to relationships. And you just go, what?

People get addicted to each other. They get as addicted to each other as they get addicted to sugar easily. It's harder for people to break up with people than it is from the kick sugar. People can kick sugar. They decide they want to lose weight. A lot of people do it. But when people break up, like the emotional toll that you take is so devastating. And I think part of the reason why the emotional toll is so devastating, unless being with the person was completely negative.

If it was completely negative Then you're like finally I'm fucking free I've had a few of those in my life, and I'm sure you have too, but there's other ones. We like God this feels terrible You know it's like it's like a Emotional flu yeah that doesn't want to go away And I think it's because we get addicted to each other in the same way that we bonded to create these communal tribes of 50 people back in the day, those instincts still remain. And I think one of the reward systems, and you would know better than I of connecting everybody together with this is gotta be this

deep affection and this addiction that we develop towards each other. Yeah. Well, we need to be loved. We need to be touched. And a lot of times if you don't have a partner, nobody's touching you, you know, as an adult. And yeah, I mean, love is a funny thing. I talk about this a lot on the podcast. You know, I guess I'm people think I'm some sort of relationship expert, which is hilarious. But I told this, I don't know if I've told this story in your podcast, but my dad has this golden retriever and he's had like five of them.

They all look the same. I don't know this one. The last one's in Brandy. Okay. So the 4th of July, they had the dog out in the backyard and they went to watch some 4th of July thing, some party somewhere.

And apparently the fireworks scared the dog and the dog jumped the fence and took off. Oh no. And so that my dad and my sister were all freaked out and they were putting up store um signs all over the neighborhood and calling and the shelters and all that day or two later they get a call from a shelter hey we've got your dog come down it's like oh there she is so well take the dog home they're in the backyard throwing the ball with the dog and my sister's boyfriend comes home and he looks out the window and he says to my mom, whose dog are they playing with? She said, well, that's Brandy.

And he said, that's not Brandy. And then a few minutes later, the phone rings. It's a neighbor. Hey, we've got Brandy. Oh, Jesus. It's the wrong dog. Right? So what do they do?

They took it back to the pound. They should have killed it. You imposter. I'm kidding. And eaten it. You try to pretend you're Brandy. You're not Brandy. You didn't respond to Brandy, you fraud.

But my point, yeah, no, the dog was like, you know, what did I do wrong? I chased your ball, you know? I mean, they sound like a great dog owner. They should have just kept it. They shouldn't have brought it back to the pound. They should have, exactly. Yeah, don't bring it back to the pound. That poor dog didn't. It's like you adopt a kid and like, eh, they're like a great dog owner. They should have just kept it. They shouldn't have brought it back to the pound. They should have, exactly. Yeah, don't bring it back to the pound. That poor dog didn't.

It's like you adopt a kid and like, eh, they're going to send you back. Yeah, if somebody comes looking for that dog, then call me. Until then, that dog lives here. Should have been. Should have been. Yeah, you can't bring it back to the pound. What a fucking drag for the dog. I know.

But my point is, they're in the backyard with the dog. What are they feeling? My dad's feeling incredible relief right brandy's back love he loves brandy that ain't brandy but it doesn't matter because he's still feeling love and i think we do that in our relationships we project our need to love on whoever the fuck will take it i mean what's that beatle song i need somebody to love yeah and then in the back you ever listen in the back they say can it be anybody and then he says i just want someone to love i don't give a fuck who it is i just want a dog i don't care i want

a girlfriend i'll take whatever what do you got well that's a thing with a lot of people that don't have relationships they have a bunch of pets. Yeah. Because they need someone or something to love. Come on and get that love. Yeah. And touch. If you come home, if you're a single person, you come home, your dogs are so happy to see you. You're like, hello, hello.

You get your kisses in, get your pets in. Yeah. I mean, dogs are like emotional band-aids for a lot of people. Even cats. I mean, you have cats, right? Sure. I love cats. And they don't give a fuck. They don't give a fuck if you're there or not but they'll sit on your lap and purr

when you pet them yeah they'll accept your love yeah which is nice sometimes that's enough dogs are better obviously no i can't believe you're gonna get into dogs versus cats debate man this fucking show sucks now that's right i forget there they are the millions listening in it's just such a hackneyed debate yeah dogs versus cats i'm really into fucking aardvarks bro i'm gonna pet aardvark yeah i watched a video online of a wild pig that had eaten through a cow's body and got stuck and the farmer found the cow and this wild pig pig is coming out through a hole in its stomach. It had eaten through the cow and got stuck. It's like Jim Carrey in Pet Detective when he comes out of that zebra's ass.

Check this out. Is this it? Yeah, there it is. You watch a lot of gross shit, man. This is not that gross. See, look at it. It's stuck. It can't get out of the body.

That's the pig. Yep, the skin of the cow. It ate through it, but then it can't get its fat body through. It got its head through, but it can't fit the rest of it through. How can it not back out? It doesn't know what to do. It's stupid. Dumb fucking wild pig.

I have a friend who has a pig, a pet pig. A pot-pelly pig? Yeah, exactly. Little kitty pies. It's like really smart. Very smart. And it's affectionate. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a bummer. Eating bacon's a bummer if you think about what a pig is. It is. It is. I keep trying to find cruelty-free bacon and it's just not there. It's not real. I can't find it. You got to shoot a pig to get bacon.

There's a certain amount of cruelty involved in that delicious taste. You ever hear a pig or see a pig die? I've killed pigs. You've killed pigs. Yeah. Yeah. They don't die happy. Well, the one i killed

died real quick i shot it with a 300 wind mag and it died instantly in the head boom no in the body body cavity like blew its heart out but it died instantaneously just fell right over it's a big round i drove a 300 the scope into my forehead on a 300 that was nice it's got a lot of kick yeah it's a good round because anything it hits dies very humanely, very quickly. Right. If you hit it right, obviously. Yeah. But wild pigs are a huge problem.

And I know that people have a problem with people eating animals, and I get that. But there's always going to be an issue, even if we didn't eat any animals. If you don't want all of your vegetables eaten up by wild pigs, somebody has to control the population because there's no way to control them. They breed at a staggering rate. They breed three or four. I mean, they'll have these litters. They can have litters two, three times a year. They start having litters when they're six months old.

When they're six months old, they start shitting out pigs. And there's a ton of them i mean there's around sonoma county yeah up in in san jose they're eating people's lawns in residential neighborhoods and they're not to be fucked with either you don't go out hey get out of here pig they'll they'll kill your dog too they'll fuck your dog up and slice him up and they'll eat him too once he's dead they're tusks like especially the big boars they're enormous animals too you're talking about like some of them are. They shot one at the Tohon Ranch, I think it was about 350 pounds last week.

350 pounds. Yeah. And this is a wild, snorting, horrific beast. Yeah. It's not a fat pig wallowing around. They're fast and aggressive. They're fast, aggressive, and ferocious. They have what's called a shield plate all around their front body. Like where their face is, like from their jawline back, they have this incredibly thick, like leather.

And it's to protect them from going to war with other male boars and those giant tusks. So they fucking slice each other up. And so these things are just they're tanks yeah they're super durable tanks who are born at a ridiculous rate like there's millions of them roaming through the country there was an article that i posted um on twitter just a few days ago where uh these scientists were saying it's just a matter of time before every county in every state has a wild pig problem it's just they're they're not stopping the breeding they're not stopping the growth and time before every county in every state has a wild pig problem. It's just they're not stopping the breeding.

They're not stopping the growth. And they're just going to slowly spread out like coyotes. And the meat's good, right? Oh, it's really good. It's delicious. It's dark. I mean, it's the perfect situation because you're killing something that needs to be killed. You know, it used to be cougars were killing them and, you know, whatever other predators

were keeping them in check. Well, it's not. They're an invasive species. They weren't native to North America? No, they were brought over here from Russia. They were brought over here from Asia. They were brought over here from different parts of the world. There's some ferocious Russian ones that are in the Northern California coast that are connected to, I think it was William Randolph Hearst. I think the Hearst Castle up there.

I think William Randolph Hearst had boars up there. It's one more thing that asshole did. I mean, wherever they came from, they were predators, you know? Siberian. Yeah. You know, they probably lived in incredibly harsh environments, and it's one of the reasons why they thrive here. Yeah.

And my point is, there's no predator now. They're living free. They're not like pigs that are turned into bacon or in these fucking cages where they can't turn around and all that shit. See, that's the thing that gets me. I eat meat. I have no problem eating meat. Because as Doug Stanhope said, life becomes life.

You know, life eats life. That's what it does. There's no getting around that. There's a book called The Vegetarian Myth. You ever read that? Yes. There's a woman who was a vegan for 20 years. And then she's like, I'm going to grow my own food.

And as soon as she started growing her own food, she realized there's no way to even grow food without killing stuff. You got to put like the stuff down to protect the garden from the slugs that kills the slugs. The fertilizer is made out of bone and blood meal. Where's that come from? Right. It's like there is no way to not kill things in order to eat. Even if you're eating vegetables you're still killing things to eat them well that's the connection to the actual

food itself right right from the source it gives you this understanding of it but still you can you can mitigate the amount of suffering that you that's what i was gonna say yeah i've got no problem eating something that lived a life right a free life like these wild boars yeah what i have a problem with is the industrial process you know wild boars might be one of the few things that we um we almost have enough where everybody can hunt them because i mean there's not enough deer there's not enough elk for people to to hunt in this country like if everybody wanted to do what some people are trying to do where they're just trying to get all the meat

from the wild. There's just not enough wild. But there's enough for the amount of people that are doing it for sure. Definitely. It's very sustainable. But that's also why it's like really difficult to get certain tags for certain animals in certain areas where they do monitor the population and they say

well we have like a certain amount here. This is a this is an amount that we have and this is the amount that we think would be healthy to remove from the population because of the competition for food and this and that. And, and, you know, so these people compete for, not compete, but they put in their, uh, for, uh, like, uh, they apply for a tag. It's like a lottery system. Yeah. And there might be a thousand people apply, but only a hundred get tags.

And now those 100, most of the time it time, it's not even 50% success rate. So the proposition of going out and just trying to get your own meat is very sketchy. It's very hard to do. Not everybody could do it. So it's not really a viable alternative to feeding 350 million people. No. But it could be viable for you. And I feel like that's the thing about people when it comes to, you know, impact.

We always, we have this weird thing where we go, well, everybody can't do that. You're right. Everybody can't do that. Everybody can't live in your house either. Right. Everybody doesn't want to do that. Everybody can't sleep in your bed. Everybody can't fuck your wife unless you guys are like that.

Unless you're freaks. You know, it's like there's a certain amount of shit you can think of for your own life, like for your own life. You want to feel better? Go shoot a wild pig. If that's where you get your food, you'll feel better. You'll feel weird. Michael Pollan wrote a very interesting essay about him shooting a wild pig up in Sonoma. I think it's included in The Omnivore's Dilemma, his big bestseller, where he wanted to trace the origins of everything every element of

a meal and so he built a book around that but he i remember reading that uh essay in the new yorker i think and um i was struck by how he he conveys really powerfully the feeling of having killed something where there was this sort of jubilation followed by shame, followed by like confusion and disgust. And like all these things were like sort of waves passing through him. You know, he wasn't a big hunter. He just wanted to have this one experience. Right. And yeah, it's my buddy.

Justin's going to take me hunting. He's been offering for a couple of years now, and I want to do it. I'm not a big killer, but I know how to shoot guns, and I feel some responsibility to face the reality of meat. I mean, just face it. You're killing shit. And just because someone's doing it for you in a factory and cutting it up and putting it in plastic, that doesn't mean you're not involved in that process. Would you be one of the people that would adopt lab created meat? Would you put that in your diet once that, that actually happens?

Cause they're pretty sure that they're going to be able to make that happen soon. Or would you look at it and say, well, I mean, how would you look at it? I'd want to look at it scientifically and know, you know, what's the nutritional content because I'm very suspicious of, you know of these things that come out of laboratories. Yeah. But if it turned out that it tasted the same, the nutritional content was as good as wild meat with grass-fed omega-3 and all that kind of stuff, the omega-3, omega-6 ratios were right, yeah, I'd eat it. Why not? I eat a lot of weird shit and we all do

or most of us you know i would definitely try it my mother had a bowl of cheese puffs the other day at the super bowl what the fuck is a cheese puff asshole fire talk about something that comes out of a lab or marshmallows do you know that they have banned trans fats in the United States? But they allow people to put them in for the next couple years. In 2018, it runs out. So until then, you could poison people. Until then, you could just keep throwing that stuff in whatever the fuck, baked goods and potato creations.

What did we find out that trans fats are in? It was in like- Microwave popcorn, I think, was one. That's crazy. That stuff's are in? It was in like microwave popcorn. I think was one. That's crazy. That stuff's goddamn delicious. Yeah. I love microwave popcorn. And what do you need to make popcorn?

It's not, I mean, just make it normally a little oil. I know, but it's so convenient if you're a lazy fuck. It's the stockpiles. You can't, you gotta roll. Do you know the whole like sort of fertilizer and not fertilizer, pesticide and insecticide, you know, farm spraying crops and all that shit.

That all started because at the end of World War Two, there were huge stockpiles of chemical weapons that weren't used. And so they're like, what are we going to do with this shit? We got to sell this shit. And they were like, well, we can dilute it and spray it and it'll kill aphids or whatever the fuck and there really wasn't a big problem with pests in the american farming industry but they had all the stockpile of stuff and rachel carson writes about this in silent spring classic book yeah crazy so it's like there's bacon and eggs we think that's like a natural breakfast thing that was invented by an advertising agency.

Yeah, we talked about this before. Did we? Yeah, we talked about this, and we talked about how Kellogg's created really bland cereal to keep people from beating off. See, that's my shtick right there. Yeah, that's a beautiful shtick, though. Once people find out that's true, you're like, what? Yeah. And just think of how bizarre.

And graham crackers. What? Yeah. What was graham crackers again? Again, it was graham and Kellogg were the two sort of anti-masturbation guys. And he thought graham crackers could keep you from beating off. Because they're so bland. That's hilarious.

Yeah. Isn't it hilarious that they associated spicy food like Latinos dancing? Exactly. Oh. They had pepper. Tacos, man. Tacos. It's all about the tacos.

Yeah. Some fucking hot salsa. Salsa music. Wow music they're getting crazy you always associate salsa music with a woman with like a dress that's like slid up the side oh man all the way up to her hip see i wish if i were efficient like you i would have learned to salsa dance years ago i'm not that efficient i don't salsa i can't even ice skate yeah i like the connection somehow in your head there's salsa dancing and then right next to that on the shelf is ice skating. Well, ice skating seems to be something that a lot of people know how to do.

Not a lot of Mexicans. That's true. Not a lot of African ice skaters, right? That's why black people haven't dominated hockey. Yeah. Otherwise they would have taken over that shit too. It's common. Because ice skating, I fucking never learned. Yeah, I can't ice skate either. Really? No. I feel good now. Yeah. It's coming. It's coming. Because ice skating, like, I fucking never learned.

Yeah, I can't ice skate either. Really? No. I feel good now. Yeah. My kids can, my wife can.

But like, to me, the sexiest women are the women who are salsa dancing. Ooh. You know? Just like I'm dirty.

Sweaty. Latin. You know, move the way they move and it's all like, well, it's a party and I just love to be out there

on the floor, Mr. Cool Guy in a light colored suit, you know? Yeah, like Miami Vice. Yeah, exactly. it's a party. And I just love to be out there on the floor, Mr. Cool Guy, in a light-colored suit, you know? Yeah, like Miami Vice. Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm picturing. Loafers, no socks. That's me, man.

I like what you're doing. In my dreams. That's me. Problem with loafers, no socks is they could really stink after a while, right? Your feet will sweat in there, and it's disgusting, and there's not much. Yeah, it's gross. Yeah, I don't know. I'm lucky in that respect or I'm just totally deluded.

But I think my body doesn't stink much. But I may be wrong about that. I may just have really friendly people around me. Well, you know how olfactory senses work, right? They work on change. They don't work on, you don't work on you don't recognize like distinct smells that last like uh say if you're like living in an area that stinks you know how those people used to the smell of baby shit yeah oh no not necessarily because baby

shit's not in front of you all the time but things that are around you all the time like your own funk or how your house smells right you're you become immune to it unless there's like like if you have a house like you ever had a cat piss in your house. Yeah, yeah. Fucking annoying, right? In my fucking bed, dude. And you're like walking around like, where the fuck is it? And I'm walking around like a goddamn dog trying to find out where my cat pissed, especially

when I used to have a carpet. Ugh. Oh, yeah. It was gross because you never knew where they pissed. And then you never really totally got it out of there. And then they know you never got it out of there. So they find that spot and pee on it again. Wretched little creatures. Wretched little creatures.

I had a cat in college. I'd moved into this shared apartment with this woman. And she had this cat named Mao who was a beautiful cat. Big, big sort of whiskers and just a lovely, beautiful cat. Was she a fan of communism? I don't know. I think iters and just a lovely, beautiful cat. She a fan of communism? I don't know. I think it was more like a meow, meow thing. But the cat would like get on a table and he'd put his paws on your shoulders and just

rub his face on your face and you'd be like, oh, what a great cat. And then he would just freak out and like fucking hit you in the face and scratch you and run away. Like, oh, this cat's fucked, right? Probably got acid. Somebody fucked with this cat. Somebody gave the it was one of these hippie houses where you know people were moving through all the time and oh fucking hippies anyway so i ended up hooking up with this woman and i remember one time we're in my bed and we're having sex, and the cat walks in, and he looks at me, and he backs up to my bookshelf and just... Oh, my God.

Kisses all over my... while holding eye contact with me. Whoa, that's disturbing. I think he had a thing with this woman, and I was... Oh, for sure he had a thing with her. Yeah. Because he's probably, if he sprang, he's probably not fixed, right? No, he wasn't fixed. You gotta, first of all, you gotta fix those cats.

Because if they walk in on you fucking, they're going to get horny. They're freaks. Yeah. Especially male cats that don't get fixed. They all spray. Yeah. All of them. I mean, female cats, they get in the heat and they start mowing.

Mow! Mow! Sticking their ass up in the air. Yeah. I told this story about my sexual experience with a cat. Did you see the animation that guy did of that? No, I did not. Who did it?

Which guy? There's a bunch of them. I don't remember his name, but it's on YouTube, and it is so well done, man. Polytune's amazing. It's a dude. It's an animator in Peru. Oh. He wrote to me.

He's not Peruvian, but he's based there. But he wrote to me, and he's like, hey, man, would you mind if I did an animation of a story you tell on your podcast? I was like, yeah like yeah go ahead that's great like you don't need my permission right but he picked the one of me and you and duncan and i'm telling the story about this cat and the pencil and the cats up in the pencil and all this shit it's like dude you pick the one story like i don't really want the world like the joe rogan audience will get it my audience will get it but i don't know that like twitter universe is gonna get it so i feel bad because you put a lot of work into it but i haven't really like pushed to promote it much you know um but it's really

what you're saying but i think your your fears are unfounded you think so yeah that's the people don't you come across you're hilarious in this jamie if you could find this thing it's called uh it's on my youtube channel i remember the story it's something about if you just google christopher ryan fucks a cat with a pencil it'll probably come up and if it doesn't i'd love to see what else does we had a cat that was in heat before she got fixed we got her fixed like right when she into heat. But you would pet her and she would lift her ass up in the air. Just like... As soon as you gave her any affection, she was like aching. And then if you spank her, they love to get spanked too.

Jesus Christ. Yeah, I had a cat who would hold onto the sofa and I'd spank her pretty hard. Oh my God. And then I'd fake spank her and she'd fall off because she was already compensating for it. It's her only trick. Oh my God. So you were beating her off by spanking her. You know, I like-

Basically, right? I like to give animals pleasure. And normally the way that expresses itself, like in Spain, in our apartment in Spain, I built this whole cat world. Like I got this big piece of driftwood and I wrapped climbing rope around it so they can climb straight up this thing. And then there's a series of shelves along the ceiling so they jump around and they can go all around the room

and chase each other and hang out up there. When you're having a party, they're like up there just hanging out watching people. Because that's where they want to be, right? And then on the terrace, I built this big tree thing that they go on and there's a hammock in it and the cats get in the hammock and swing. And so I love like seeing animals happy. Right. You know, I mean, maybe in a way, my whole, my, the things I write are trying to make people happy because what I'm trying to do

is get people in their natural environment. That's what I'm trying. That's what I'm writing about, you know? And so with cats, it's the same way. I want them to same way i want them to be i want them to i want to create a jungle for them and a world and it's so cool because we had three cats and they once you build this world for them they leave you alone they're not like people think cats are like oh you know it's all pathetic it's you know i come home and it's all if you have three cats they have their own life and they're happy to interact with you when you want to but when you don't want to they're doing their thing you know wow it's really it's really good all right jay did you find it they're interesting little animals man i love the relationships that people have with their cats it's very okay here we go what is that well don't don't watch the

whole thing this is this one's got like a laugh track on it. Huh? Maybe not. No, no. The laugh track he added, that's because I was talking about doing this gig in Hollywood. Oh, okay. It's called Nine and a Half Lives with Dr. Christopher Ryan. If you look it up.

Why is it nine and a half? You should see the image of you, though. You're sitting just like this. Oh, there you are. Let's hear some of it so the story is okay i'm eight years old it's the 70s and uh this animation's amazing bridge party at their friend's place and so there's no babysitter they take me a station wagon and yeah it's like you know love american style the Bunch those days, if anyone's old enough to remember that shit. Anyway, so I'm like, hey, they put me in the basement in the family room and they say, keep the door closed because the cat's in heat.

Right? I don't know what the fuck that means. I think it means the cat's hot. So they've got the AC on. Keep the door closed. I don't know. So I go down. I watch it TV.

And this fucking cat is just like all over the place rubbing her ass on my leg and just like looking at me and just like really because somebody scratched my itch you know and i look down and there's this pencil on the table next to the the sofa oh no you did unshuttered and i take the pencil and with the eraser down i just hold it there right and this cat backs up on this eraser and starts fucking humping this eraser. Oh, no. Freaks me out. Rips the inside of her apart with that little metal casing.

No, no. But you know what? Male cat penises have spines that come out on withdrawal that does rip up the inside of the female. Blood has to mix with cat semen to fertilize cats. That's why they scream like that at night. What happened was I pulled the pencil away because it was freaking me out. And then the cat turns around and looks at me like, yo, hey, what are you doing? You know, come on.

And like really like shocked and disappointed. And I was like, well, I don't know. So I put it back down again. The cat backs up and it starts fucking this pencil again. And this time I hold on. And then she comes. Cats have orgasms? Oh, yeah.

And she, like, rolls over and looks at me, licking her face, and looks at me with love and gratitude. It's the first sexual experience I ever had. And you didn't put your penis against the cat? No, no, no. I was eight years old. I wasn't experiencing You put your penis against the cat when it was doing that? No, no, no. I was eight years old. I wasn't. I was experiencing it as an idea. I wasn't feeling it as a sexual thing, right?

Yeah. Yeah. But when you were like in a team, you probably did that. Oh, I fucked every cat in the neighborhood. Yeah. Did you? No. Isn't that great?

What a great. Dave Anderson. Bloodsausage.co.uk. What a... He's great. That animation's amazing. Yeah. It's perfect.

I mean, I've probably seen it 20 times, and every time I see details. Yeah. I mean, if you freeze that frame of the Brady Bunch, or the Love American style, or whatever it was, like every one of those characters. And I'd love to know how accurate his tattoo is because of your arm do you have a t-shirt that says how dare you no i don't it's just a phrase you use i just say it all the time uh i don't think the tattoos were accurate i didn't recognize them but whatever it was amazing you know what the duncan thing with a little pyramid with a floating eye above

it sitting in front of him all the time and he's wearing a serape yeah that guy's great and yeah what is yeah they're definitely not correct yeah but um the uh the other thing was the car how the car was bouncing up and down as we're driving and it's got the wood siding you know it's like he he got the 70s everyone's wearing like leisure suits and smoking cigarettes and shit. This is really well done. Anyway, what the fuck was that? Oh, we're talking about giving cats pleasure and making animals happy. I had a buddy of mine who used to jerk off his Rottweiler with his foot.

He used to put his foot on his Rottweiler's dick, and he would rub it back and forth, and Rottweiler would come. Yeah. And I told my girlfriend at the time, this was a long time ago, and she was so mad. She was so disgusted. Like, that is fucking disgusting. And I was like, why is it disgusting? The guy's just beating off his dog.

Like, the dog can't do it. If the dog could do it, he would do it himself. So he's like a friend who jerks off his friend. Dog can lick his own balls pretty easily. Yeah, that's true, but I don't think that's enough. I think he needed more. So my friend needs to beat him off with his foot is it aren't there like i think there's like a female sex toy you can get for male dogs oh yeah there's like a thing that that makes sense like a fleshlight for

dogs that makes sense keep it from humping your leg yeah yeah why not i mean you want them to be happy there was this controversy controversy not too long ago. A woman wrote a book about, you know, John Lilly. Jamie just, yeah, I know what you're talking about. I know. Look at this. There it is. Hot doll, the sex doll for dogs.

And it's shaped like a dog. And you just got to get your horny dog and just back him up onto that bitch. Wow. That's hilarious. Push him forward onto that bitch. Wow. That's hilarious. Yeah. Or push him forward onto that bitch, I should say. Yeah. Back the bitch up onto him.

Yeah. Well, why don't they just make one of them real dolls for a dog? Give it hair, like the American Werewolf in London out there? Yeah. Something like that, where the dog doesn't feel dirty, like he's got to fuck some machine. Because they didn't put any work whatsoever into the aesthetics. Do you think the dogs care? It might feel better for them.

They might get a little more excited if it looked like a real dog. And you could give it like a soundtrack, a little... Yeah, like... Just how we're like looking over a shoulder. Oh, please, please, please give me that doggy dick. Doggy stuff. Yeah. Yeah, with the woman who jerked offgy dick. Doggy stuff. Yeah. Yeah, with the woman who jerked off the dolphin.

Yes, yes. Well, what's fascinating about that story is this woman was living with a young adolescent male dolphin. And this adolescent male dolphin, they were trying to get the dolphin to talk. In a flooded house. Yeah, in a flooded house. So she lived in a place where she would have waist-high water everywhere she went so the dolphin could swim freely through the house and live with her. But the dolphin was horny

all the time. So he didn't want to do his studies. So what she did was she beat him off. And when word got out that she beat off the dolphin, they canceled all the research. Is that what happened? I thought the research... They got in trouble. But recently, because she talked about it recently when she wrote a book about the time.

And she was working with John Lilly, who went on to invent the sensory deprivation tank. Well, I think he'd already invented it at the time. He was on like one of the first iterations of it. And he was also giving acid to dolphins. Right. So it might have been that. Yeah, that. It was one of those things that led to them pulling the plug on the research. It was either she was jerking it off and they found out. And they were also, I think the defense department was using his research to train dolphins to kill in Vietnam and to plant bombs and suicide bombs and shit. bomb yeah which is crazy shit it's crazy that they they felt like that was well i guess look

man when you're in war you're already deciding that you're killing people so the idea of killing dolphins to kill people it's like and they didn't think of dolphins the way we think of dolphins today either like that that might be something the military would still be interested in doing i don't know i mean maybe they are doing it they're just not telling us about a lot of whales with all their sonar testing yeah because they do these intense sound waves in the underwater and the the whales have very sensitive sound reception organs so it fucking blasts them and you know does it give them like tinnitus or some shit i don't know like a rock band yeah it could be the lead singer of acdc can't do shows anymore pete uh townsend yeah really that's the he can't hear anything yeah

pete townsend's almost deaf too right yeah he's been deaf for a while yeah the lead singer of acdc his ears are so fucked up he can't tour anymore yeah i can't go to concerts man like i i've been to a few concerts recently i mean never it's not a question of being old i hear that getting older noise bothers you more but i've always been annoyed by noise and especially like where they're playing shit so loud that it's distorting the speakers it's like you're that's not that doesn't sound good right being louder isn't better but i don't know that's a weird yeah but there's a thing that people like to do they like to know that they're really fucking partying man that's it really partying turn it up to 11 you know and i think those are the people that need to go to the fucking gym yeah heavy bag yeah

that's it see this is it this keys back into me being a lazy hippie. I like moderate sound. I don't need it all the way up. Get something to beat up, you fucks. Yeah. And stop this. Get it out. So you've never been to the Salton Sea? No, I have not, but I saw that you were there recently.

I was there like a week ago. Yeah. You should come out there, man. I want to. It's an intense post-apocalyptic scene out there. Did you see the, was John Waters did a documentary on it, I believe? No, I don't know. There was a scene in Into the Wild where the kid is there.

Do you remember that? He's hanging out with some hippies in like a desert. That was in the Salton Sea? Yeah, he was in Slab City, which is in the Salton Sea. Oh, wow. Yeah, I've got, my buddy Tao does, this year is the second Bombay Beach Biennale he's doing. Oh, look at that.

Yeah, that's Salvation Mountain. That's that guy that has been making this mountain out of art and like painting it for years. It's all about God and Jesus and love. Yeah, he mixes God and Jesus and love and yeah He mixes paint and straw and mud and he built this whole thing. Yeah, it's crazy structure He's been working on for decades, right? Yeah, he died a couple years ago. Oh, she's hot. Is that Kristen Stewart? Yeah. Oh, yeah yeah, her dad used to be the one of the, the producer guys on a fear factor. He was like,

I don't know what his official title was, but he was like the guy who got everything together, like got everybody in place and made sure everything was running. It's like big job. Yeah. He was like the guy on the street, like while everything was going on, really good dude, fun crazy man and that's uh that's his daughter and i was always like dude you shouldn't have your kid act she's so young seems crazy she'll never make it yeah meanwhile she was a twilight girl became like one of the most famous actresses uh i never saw her until saturday night live a couple days ago oh really yeah so what was she on saturday night live was she doing on there she hosted I never saw her until Saturday Night Live a couple days ago. Oh, really? Yeah.

What was she on Saturday Night Live? What was she doing on there? She hosted. Oh, no kidding. This last, yeah, just this last week. She got some new movie coming out or something? I don't know what she was doing. I don't know what she was promoting. If anything, I didn't catch it.

I just watched it because that scene with Kathy Bates doing Sean Spicer. Did you see that? No, but I heard it was awesome. Oh, fucking hell. I haven't seen it. Megan McCarthy, not Kathy Bates. Oh, Megan McCarthy. Thank you. Kathy Bates, but I heard it was awesome. I haven't seen it. Megan McCarthy, not Kathy Bates. Oh, Megan McCarthy. Thank you.

I keep saying Kathy Bates. I don't even think it's Megan McCarthy. It's Melissa McCarthy. I'm sorry. Son of a bitch. Correcting your correcting. Thank you, Jamie. I think that that show, Saturday Night Live, is all the evidence we need that Donald Trump

needs to do mushrooms. Yeah. Because he keeps tweeting about Alec Baldwin doing that sketch about him and saying it's not funny. Like, dude, why are we laughing? Yeah. Tell me keeps tweeting about Alec Baldwin doing that sketch about him and saying it's not funny. Yeah. Dude, why are we laughing? Yeah. Tell me what's going on. Why are we laughing? Like, if someone's shitting on you, look, it doesn't feel good. I know it doesn't feel good, but it is

funny. Yeah. You know, and Alec Baldwin does do a fucking amazing impression. It's incredible. It's his best work. It's right up there with that whole fucking closers get coffee. Oh. Glenn Ross. Glenn Ross, yeah. Yeah, I mean, that rant that he fucking closers get coffee. Oh. Glenn, Glenn Ross. Glenn Ross. Yeah. I mean,

that rant that he did in that movie. That's insane. Fucking epic, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think this Trump impression's right up there. Yeah.

It's really good. It's really good. And it's getting better, too. The more he does it, the better. He looks more and more like him. Yeah.

You know, what does it say there? Bad news for Trump, Saturday Night Live in the midst of a ratings renaissance. Yeah. Of course it is. And that's one of the reasons why. You know, What does it say there? Bad news for Trump, Saturday Night Live in the midst of a ratings renaissance? Of course it is. And that's one of the reasons why.

Saturday Night Live is like a show that goes in cycles. You have these cycles of greatness. And then they try to find themselves. People leave. New people struggle a little bit. There's always something good there. But it's almost like it's got to be insanely difficult to create a new show every week. Insane.

Yeah. You know? Total dog-eat-dog environment. Yeah. And even, like, you look, if you go back and look at videos from the Glory Days, you know, the Dan Aykroyd days, and John Belushi and all that, there was still a lot of filler in there. Oh, for sure. You know, we remember the Trout-O-Matic and, you know, the great moments. The samurai, John Belushi's samurai character. Exactly.

You couldn't do that anymore. That'd be cultural appropriation. That'd be racism. A lot of shit you couldn't do. You probably couldn't do the, we're too wild and crazy guys. I don't know. I mean, they were white. Right, they were white, but they were definitely foreign. But could you do Borat? Could you do Borat today? I don't know. I mean, Borat was just a few years ago,

right? Yeah, but it might be different if he tried it today incredibly racist yeah oh my god and he's like oh he's like an orthodox jew that guy the the comedian who does borat is he really yeah he's like a seriously religious you know honors the shabbat and all that kind of stuff. Serious Jewish practicing Jew. I forgot his real name. He's Ali G to me. Yeah, me too. Sasha Baron Cohen. He's Ali G. Ali G's his best work.

When he would interview people and they didn't know he was Ali G. He can't do that anymore. But when he interviewed Buzz Aldrin. Oh, it would explain humor to him. That's one of the greatest moments ever he's explaining humor while he's in the midst of a joke that he doesn't know is happening yeah poor buzz poor buzz poor buzz he got owned yeah but you know who my favorite uh one of the few where he wasn't getting on was uh ralph nader oh yeah remember that one yeah ralph nader just kind of went with them well

what happened was, so Ali G's doing this whole thing where they're talking about the environment and global warming and he says, well, but, you know, isn't a major cause of global warming the cow farts? And so shouldn't we just, you know, put balloons on cows

and, you know, he gets into this whole thing, right? And Ralph Nader's looking at him and you can see when the balloons on the cow's asses thing comes out ralph nader's like i oh wait a minute and so he just sort of when allergy finishes talking he says well you know scientists have been working on that but it's very hard to develop a valve that perfectly fits a cow's asshole and then and then it cuts right it just cuts and then the next scene like after commercial whatever you see ali g and ralph nader rapping together oh that's hilarious yeah it's really do one of those with trump but trump walked out trump walked out let's play this

very quickly get in trouble but yeah are we gonna get in trouble right now hold on what are we doing hold on he's gonna do something why are we getting in trouble, but yeah, are we gonna get in trouble right now? Hold on. What are we doing? Hold on. He's gonna do something. Why are we getting in trouble? Well, we get our shit pulled from YouTube all the time if it has content in from someone else's video. Oh really? Yeah, you can't even play the audio So What is the problem with ice cream? Are people listening to this?

Audio will. Audio will, but YouTube people are not. So we're watching this, and Donald Trump is getting upset at Ali G. People are just hearing silence. Let's just kill it then. This is stupid to do it this way. Yeah.

Yeah, it's whenever someone's content gets played, like anybody who owns this video, we play their video, we get pulled off of YouTube. Yeah, this is one that would get us yanked. And then what do you do? You have to go cut it out. Yeah, you have to cut it out. Put it back up. Yeah. Yeah.

It's, I get it. Yeah. I get it. They want people to, but we always try to tell people to go to that video. That's it. You're sending traffic their way, right? But it's uh i get it yeah i get it they want people to but we always try to tell people to go to that video that's it you're sending traffic their way right but it's funny go find it go find it and yeah yeah that's funny i didn't know sasher baron cohen was is he a practicing orthodox jew believe so yeah yeah it is it's interesting because you think of comics as i mean i think of do you know other religious comics because there there's an irreverent, an intellectual irreverence.

There are a few. There are a few. Jim Gaffigan's Catholic. Oh, yeah. That's sort of his shtick, right? I don't know if it's his shtick. I think he's actually a practicing Catholic. How much of that is legit?

No, but I mean, that's his sort of identity. I don't mean it's not legit. I just mean like he's the family man. He definitely is. Yeah. What is this? Is this him? Sasha Baron Cohen says, I wouldn't say I'm a religious man.

I'm proud of my Jewish identity and there are certain things I do and customs I keep. Okay. He tries to keep kosher and attends synagogue about twice a year. He tries to keep kosher, but he's not saying he's real. It wouldn't say he's a religious Jew, but he tries to keep kosher. All right. Yeah. That sounds like he's halfway in.

He's got one foot in, one foot out. I mean, you got to think about the movies he makes. You can't, you can only be so religious and make those movies. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I, this whole thing about comics thinking differently. Saturday, I was at Jake Johansson's house.

He does this Cajun cooking every Christmas. And I was there, and there was a guy, Haney? Comic? Haney. Alan Haney. Havy? Havy. Yeah. Yeah. Alan Havy. comic last name um alan haney havey havey yeah yeah alan havey uh who i recognize from mad men and you know and then since i met him i've seen him everywhere he's on that uh the man in the high castle and all these shows anyway so we're there and we're talking and we're talking about this thing we're talking about the stanhope by the way i didn't finish that cliffhanger thing but

if someone wants to listen to something go check those two episodes out do you remember the names of the episodes they're called the cliffhangers yeah um but it's very intense huh it's very intense anyway so we're talking about this and i said uh have you guys seen this movie the aristocrats because it's really about how comics think differently, you know, like how nothing is offensive. And they're like, yeah, yeah, that's a great movie. And that really gets to it. And, you know, whatever, the conversation continues. So then I go home and a couple of days later, I'm sitting there and I had a copy of The Aristocrats.

I haven't seen that since it came out. I'm going to watch it. So I watch The Aristocrats. They're both in the fucking movie. And neither one of them says anything to me. Right. So it's again, it's this L.A. thing where everything's the opposite of of what I consider normal. So in L.A., I thought about this a lot because it was so shocking to me that they were just like, oh, yeah, it's a great film.

And then I'm watching like, there they are. Right. How do you not say, oh, we're in that movie? Right. How do you not say that? It can only be that in L.A., like, name dropping is so uncool that cool becomes what you don't say. Yeah, it could be that. That definitely could be it.

Because people see famous people all the time in LA. So it's like, if you're like, oh, I saw Joe Rogan in the supermarket. People are like, yeah, yeah, whatever, man. It could also be that some people don't like talking about their work. Some people avoid talking about, especially talking about the work of stand-up when they're not talking to a stand-up. Yeah. I do that. Really?

Yeah, yeah. So you wouldn't mention that you were in the movie if i could get away with not mentioning it i might i might just skirt out of there that's funny man because i'm well to you i'm still a small town boy because to me it's like you're in a movie holy shit man to you i would certainly tell you that i was in that movie if you brought it up but you're my friend but if i didn't know you and some weirdo at a party i gotta take a chance with just talking about stand-up to you oh yeah yeah it's a good movie all right hey look at over there chips gotta go cheese puffs my favorite yeah so i get cornered sometimes i mean you've been cornered sometimes by people that just want to ask

questions at you like they're interviewing you so what's going on like like right now i get a million people that want to corner me and ask me u questions because the UFC just sold for some astronomical $4 billion, whatever it is, figure. And, uh, so everybody wants to talk to me. What's it like with the new owners? What's it like? Oh, gotta go. Gotta go. You become like a someone that you're, you're instead of having a conversation with people, like you're, they're interviewing you. Yeah. And it's one-on-oneone it's not going out on tv or something it's not even that it's like i don't you know i don't necessarily want to talk about my work details and issues like what's it like working with my new bosses like yeah okay yeah who gives a shit man you know do you

compartmentalize a lot? I mean, is there the UFC part of your life, and there's the stand-up part of your life? It has to be the UFC, because I don't swear. I very, very rarely, like, say shit or something like that. Is that hard? No, no, it's not very hard. I just, I don't think it's necessary.

You know, like, when I'm doing... But I mean to keep, because you're used to talking freely on the podcast. Is it, I don't mean does it bother you. No, no, no. I didn't mean that. I didn't think you meant that. I mean even difficult.

No, it's not difficult. Because it is a totally different mindset. Because I'm never trying to be funny. Do you remember when Dennis Miller used to host Monday Night Football? Yeah. He did it for a little bit. People got so mad. Because he was trying to be funny.

He was cracking jokes. Right. And I remember remembering that. Yeah. He did it for a little bit and people got so mad. Yeah, because he was trying to be funny. He was cracking jokes. Right. And I remember remembering that. Yeah. And I didn't even watch it but I remember people were like really pissed

at Dennis Miller. And I thought about it and I was like, well, I don't do that and I'm not gonna do that. And it's like he, you know, Dennis is a joke writer.

Yeah. He's a joke teller. I have bits. You know, it's kind of a different kind of comedy in the first place. But then on top of that, it's like that thing that's going on to me doesn't require much of me. What it requires is me to explain things. That's it. So it doesn't require personality or flair or senses of humor or unique points of view.

or flair or senses of humor or unique points of view, unless I recognize something, like a pattern that's happening in a fight that allows the people at home to enjoy it more and it allows the person who's fighting, the two people that are fighting, it represents them in an honorable way. So that's my goal. That's all I'm trying to do when I'm there. I'm just trying to do my best to give justice to what I'm seeing and you do a great job of that I mean I don't even I'm not into UFC I've started watching

it since I've been hanging out with you you know and and I've gotten to know some of the personalities and I've watched the whole Ronda Rousey thing and the you know this guy the Irish guy Conor McGregor yeah you fuck yeah yeah so. So it's pretty compelling. And I think you do a very good job of that. Your ego isn't in play at all. No, it can't be. I try as much as possible. You're a journalist.

You're just reporting. Yeah, I try as much as possible to stay outside of it. I mean, I'm thinking because I want to. I mean, I'm constantly trying to stay on the ball. But at my best, I'm just doing it, you know? It's like I have to be just tuned in, well-rested, well-fed, hyped up, ready to go. Because it's a six-hour thing. So I sit down for six hours and oftentimes it's always at least 10 fights. It's usually 11 or 12. And you do all? Yeah, all of them. You do all of them?

All of them from the beginning. They don't just bring you in for the last few? No, I actually like doing it that way. Because what happens is I get warmed up. So I do like the first, because like, sometimes fighting is so crazy, you have to go, oh yeah, okay, there's a fight going on. You know, like you're sitting, I mean, even though I've done it, I've called at least a thousand

fights, probably closer to 2,000 fights. I don't know how many actual fights I've been in front of while doing comedy, but it's at least 1,000. Let's say it's probably 1,500 or something. But even though that's the case, to this day, when one starts, I go, okay, this is a fight. This is what's going on. By the fifth fight of the night, I'm totally in the groove, and I'm just laser-focused, concentrating on the action, I'm totally in the groove and I'm just laser focused, concentrating on the action, trying to pick the right words, trying to describe it in the right way and trying to give that give that perspective to someone at home that might not be seeing something that I might be seeing.

Yeah. Well, especially all the the wrestling grappling techniques. That's a big part of it. That's a big part of it. People are used to seeing boxing and they know what an uppercut is or a hook or whatever. But yeah, when they get on the ground, I have no idea what's going on and you're talking about the arm bar and you know this and that yeah that's the most difficult are you below the stage or yeah yeah so you're looking up yeah it's like you see what's going on on the other side yeah yeah well sometimes i don't see like if the referee stands in front of me and then i have to look at monitors

so i have two monitors in front of me that give me two completely different angles do you get splattered by sweat and blood and blood i've had blood splatter on me before yeah i've got it in my mouth before one guy was talking to me and his nose was uh broken and every time he was talking it sprayed and i felt something grow on my lips it's like yikes and you're you're like on tv live television you can't be like cut give me a fucking no. I mean, he was talking to me and blood was coming out of his mouth. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. I've gotten sprayed.

Look, that's an easy part. You know, their job was difficult. Like, that's someone's blood. Yeah. Like, the guy getting hit. And they're all tested. Oh, yeah. HIV and all that.

Everything. Everything. Everything. Everything. And, you know, guys have been stopped from fighting because of certain things that have come up in those tests. Diseases and all kinds of shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sure. Hepatitis, for sure. Some organizations have, you know, pulled guys off cards because they found they have infectious diseases. Well, you should. Because that'll go blood to blood. That's a bad thing to be getting. Staph infections are a real big deal, too.

Sometimes people will get staph from the fighter they're fighting, and you find out the guy had a sore, a staph sore, and he wasn't alerting anybody to it. That happens. And a lot of that's antibiotic resistant now. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Staph is scary stuff.

Yeah. And it's one of those things that sort of rarely gets discussed. But super important to keep healthy skin flora. I tell people this is one of the most important aspects of it don't use antibacterial soap yeah don't do it you're gonna ruin your skin flora you're just you're you're fucking agent oranging your whole skin yeah like don't do it people think they're gonna be healthier that way oh i'm just gonna use antibacterial that way i want to get into diseases you'll get like crazy warts on your hands and

shit like you got to be real careful with that stuff yeah you don't want to kill that flora yeah you know the flora this is something i researched for this book that cesarean section is a big problem yeah because you don't get the vaginal bath of uh skin flora and also intestinal they've actually rubbed vaginal like whatever that jazz is on babies yeah post-birth that have been given cesarean sections just to sort of get it on them. Because if you don't, it gets colonized by whatever's floating around in the air. Yeah. And you don't want what's floating in the air in the hospital.

Fuck, yeah. You know? Yeah, it is a crazy thing, you know, that there's a process. And we think there was some details of that process. We can skirt around that one. We don't have to blow the pussy out. No, no, no. We're just going to go through the roof.

We're going to pop a sunroof on that bitch and just pull that baby. We're going to have a golf on Monday, so let's do this. Let's stitch them up. Everything's going to be fine. She looks great in the vagina. It retains its 100% elasticity. God damn, it's like a rose. I mean, we have to acknowledge we're a couple of guys here who are never going to have our

taints slit. Oh, I get it. I mean, I get it, too. I couple of guys here who are never going to have our taints slit. Oh, I get it. I mean, I get it, too. I get it 100%. But it's tough. But I have a friend and his wife specifically was saying, a baby is not blowing my pussy out. Not going to happen. She's going through the roof no matter what.

I fucking get it. It's such a primitive way to give birth. Yeah. You know, the weirdest one is the hyena. The hyena a primitive way to give birth. Yeah. You know, the weirdest one is the hyena. The hyena that gives birth out of that fake dick. Yeah, big clits. Hyenas have massive clits. Well, it's a faux penis.

Yeah. I mean, it literally looks like a giant dick. And they're bigger. That's what's fucked up about them. They have a baby out of that thing, too. And they ride the male and try to fuck them with that fake dick weird animal man we're so lucky we don't have so i was in africa since i saw you oh what'd you do over there yeah so i was in mexico first then i was in thailand for six

weeks uh and then i was in southern africa i did a 10-day safari wow andibia botswana yeah how was that uh i wouldn't do the same thing again uh it was a it was cool it was a wild dog safaris who do this sort of like low budget get in the van and sleep intense at night kind of thing right and i picked this like massive thousand fifteen hundred mile whatever like see all of southern africa you know which was dumb because you're just sitting in a van most of the time. What kind of shots did you have to get? I didn't get any shots for that. Really? Yeah.

No, there's no yellow fever there. There's some malaria, but I've been in lots of places with malaria and I just avoid mosquitoes. How do you do that? You don't, you have a, make sure you have a good net on your bed uh you wear long sleeve light colored clothing light colored yeah like white or something like that white because so they really are attracted to darker colors well i think it's because you don't see them you know if you're if you have a white sleeve you'll see them landing and flying around oh i see you're just constantly on the alert for little disease carrying monsters yeah

and also you know i'll occasionally use some of the DDT shit on my ankles and my neck and stuff. But the other thing is you eat a lot of raw garlic. Oh, I've heard that. That's real? That does work? Well, I mean, I've been doing it for years. When I was on the road backpacking in places, tropical places, I was eating raw garlic every day, which is really good for your intestines, by the way, your intestinal flora and all that. But your skin smells like garlic.

Yeah. You start sweating it out right away. Oh, I smell like garlic all the time. People complain. I love the smell. I like it too, but it's not good on your breath, right? Agreed? Well, what you do is you chop it up, right?

Right. Put it, throw it in your mouth and drink it down with water. You don't chew it. I chew it. Chewing, it's what gives you the breath because it gets in your teeth. So if you take it like pills, you'll get the garlic belch and you get the garlic skin, but you don't get the garlic breath. I would feel like I'm cheating because I'm kind of a glutton for those uncomfortable

moments where you know you're doing something good. Like you're chomping down the garlic and you feel those juices hit your tongue and you're like, whoa! Yeah. You feel that and your nose starts opening up like, whoo! Mix it with some fresh ginger. I just throw it down, man.

Yeah. Anytime there's any feeling at all of stomach dis-ease, dis-ease, or if I feel bad, I feel like I'm a little run down, I just choke down a bunch of cloves of garlic. The other day I did it and it hit me so hard I had to take a knee. I was like, oh. Really?

Yeah. Like as it was going down, I was like, whoa. I mean, I could have stood up if I wanted to, but I wanted to sit down for dramatic purposes. Like, wow. You took a knee. You're praising the good Lord garlic. I was like, oh my goodness, garlic.

What are you doing to my insides? I had a horrendous stomach virus right around New Year's. I went through my New Year's Eve show convinced I was going to shit myself. I was like, there's going to be a point in this show where I'm just going to have to shit myself. And I thought about it all day before the show. I didn't eat anything. I didn't eat anything all day. Like from the moment I woke up to the moment I went to bed.

I mean, I was having broken fire hydrant experiences in the toilet. Liquid. Yeah. It was just like, where is all this coming from? Right. You know, like, I couldn't believe it as it was happening. You were losing weight by the minute. Yeah.

It was blowing out of me. Something inside of me was terrible. Like, whatever it was was terrible. It was blowing out of me. Something inside of me was terrible. Like, whatever it was was terrible. I had these farts that were, they smelled like fermented fruit and death. Like, death mixed with this fermented.

Like sulfur? Like, the most rotten meat you could ever, like, if you opened up, like, a refrigerator and the power had gone off while you were on vacation and you came back and there was some hamburger meat that was rotten it smelled like that and like like sulfur and like uh sweet like a vinegary almost like a fermented sort of a smell to it was horrendous sulfur belches were you getting sulfur no it was all going on inside my stomach because I wasn't eating much. And it's something that went around through my whole house. My littlest daughter got, I mean, I didn't know what she was going through, but she was just constantly complaining about her stomach being really awful

for like a whole week. We were skiing in Aspen, and that's when it kicked in. And when I get back, I was like, oh, no, like this is bad. I was like, I don't know if I can do is bad. Have you ever had an event on stage? No. Like a wet fart or something? Or like, oh, oh. No, I haven't.

But interestingly enough, there's a new law that just got, well, it might be proposed, a new rule got proposed for the unified rules of mixed martial arts, where if you shit yourself, they stop the fight. Hmm. Which has happened before. Guys have shit themselves, like, in the middle of a fight. Just like loss of sphincter control. Yeah, man.

Sometimes you got to go. Like sometimes it's diarrhea. Someone could kick you in the fucking gut and just blast it out the back. There was a guy named Michael Chiesa who was a very good fighter. And he was fighting Benil Dariush, I believe. Yes, that's what his fight was. And Benil Dariush, because I remember it was a big victory for him because he choked Benil Dariush, I believe. Yes, that's what this fight was. And Benil Dariush, because I remember it was a big victory for him because he choked

Benil Dariush out, which was giant, because Benil Dariush was super respected at Jiu-Jitsu Black Belt. And Michael Chiesa, as he got into the octagon, looked over at me and goes, dude, I might shit my pants. He goes, I might shit my pants right while the fight's going on. I'm like, seriously? I was like, taking my headphones

off, like, seriously? He's like, yeah, I'm gonna shit my pants. And while the fight's going on i'm like seriously i was like took my headphones off like seriously he's like yeah i'm gonna shit my pants and so like okay i know and so like i'm holding this in the back of my head i'm like i definitely shouldn't bring it up unless it becomes an issue because i don't want the public to like dwell on that right i want them to enjoy this great fight right and then he got through without shitting himself and then uh you know i asked him after like off mic i'm like did you almost shit yourself he's like dude he goes i came out here i was convinced i was going to shit myself. I used to get like before I would go on a TV show or do a big public speaking thing where there are going to be a lot of people there, I would like five, 10 minutes before

I was supposed to go on stage, I'd be like, I need to take a dump. Like I need to do it right now. I've taken a few dumps here. Sorry about that. I'm more relaxed now. It's what it right now. I've taken a few dumps here. Sorry about that. I'm more relaxed now. It's what it's for. But I think there's a, it's like a, you know, a fight or flight thing. I think animals get that too.

It's like, oh, this is, I got to like get my shit together literally and get it out of me. So I'm light. Yeah. You know? Well, it's also your body does not want to waste any resources dealing with that. Right. Because it feels like there's like some catastrophe about to take place. There's a video of these two bears, these giant bears.

And it was in that movie Grizzly Man, that crazy dude that lived up. Oh, great. Turner Herzog. Yeah. Yeah, I love that film. What a great movie. But these two bears are fighting. And while they're fighting, they start shitting.

Yeah. Because their body's just like, look, whatever this is, get it out. Get it out. We're going to war here. We're not processing. Yeah. No thought whatsoever and no resources drawn away from the muscles to process the food. Have you ever done that?

Like eating a big meal and then try to work out? I never try to work out. But if you did. I know what you mean. You're heavy. You got nothing. There's no energy. No energy.

It's fascinating. Because it's almost like if you were a pie chart. You could see there's a segment of that chart that is now missing. You can kind of do it. You can kind of work out. But you definitely can't run a marathon or anything crazy. If you do, you'll be hurting. Oh, the fucking Wim Hof, man.

He's been on your show a bunch of times. I hung out with him for like a week in the Pyrenees and went up to his place in Holland and sort of became friends. I mean, that's an example of what I'm talking about. I want to know these people. When I reached out to them, they were like, yeah, we'll set up a thing. You can do a Skype. And I was like, fuck, I don't want to do a Skype. I want to meet this dude.

Tell me. Give me a day. I'll fly to Holland. I was in Spain at the time, so it wasn't a big flight but anyway i was talking to him about it and it's like he's run all these marathons in the fucking desert with no water and in the arctic and you know yeah yeah but the dude doesn't work out no he runs marathons he doesn't work out he doesn't run because i hate running yeah i'm like well how do you run a marathon if you don't train he's like that's just the mind yeah i don't know what he's talking about i ran a 5k and i was ready to die i'd run up the fucking driveway out of breath i mean i don't run and i ran a 5k and i was like wow this

is actually difficult i'm like i'm in great shape i'm like this i'm gonna be able to do this i work out all the time i'm like i'm just gonna go run. It's going to be just a thing I do. Because you're not used to using those muscles in that way? Or was it cardiopulmonary distress? I ate a waffle covered with peanut butter and then covered with maple syrup. I gave myself an excuse. I'm like, I'm going to run this crazy race today. I'm going to carb up. But my body's just not used to eating that nonsense. I'm going to carve up. But my body's just not used to eating that nonsense. So I think it had shut down production of a lot of key ingredients.

It was definitely that. I was feeling it. Like, while I was running, I could feel, like, the gases from the waffle coming out of my throat. I could taste it. Waffles kicking in. The peanut butter and syrup together. So much sugar. Yeah. But it's all just, you know, your your feet your feet aren't used to running on

it was on concrete you know it's like the whole thing is weird yeah and the shocks on your knees and your ankles you ever read born to run you know no no but i i do know the premise of it christopher mcdougall it's about the the way shoes running shoes are developed yeah and how our bodies are designed to run on the balls of our feet. And he goes down and lives with the Tarahumara Indians of Mexico and the Barranca del Cobre, where I was in 1988. I was back there with those Indians. And they run into like really thin shoes or barefoot. Barefoot or they make these sandals out of tire. Yeah.

You know, it's just strapped on their foot. It's just a thing. Yeah. And they run forever yeah well that's how the body's meant and i mean we're meant to use the foot as this amazing shock absorber you know you land on the ball of the foot it kind of gives in that's what the calf muscle's for yeah and also the arch and there are all these bones yeah yeah it's crazy short it's like the birth thing you know i just I just saw this thing yesterday, this sock. It's the same thing.

I mean, it's supposed to be replacing that barefoot feeling, I suppose. It's a really expensive sock. It's like 80 bucks. Just a sock? What kind of a... It shows at the end of the video. It shows what it's made of. It's got some sort of spray polymer that's like 15 times stronger than steel.

Whoa. So you can do rock climbing, tightrope walking. Oh, wow. You can run outside. And it's just as... I guess it feels like silk. It feels just like a sock. Holy shit. I'm pretty interested in it.

I don't know how legit it is. Dude, let's get it. It's pretty new. I work out barefoot most of the time. I work out barefoot when I do kickboxing. Work out barefoot if I do jiu-jitsu. Work out barefoot if I lift weights. I do almost everything barefoot.

Occasionally, I'll do an elliptical machine or something like that with shoes on. But I feel like when you are barefoot, like I do yoga barefoot, obviously. I feel like when you're barefoot, you could feel your toes are like digging into the ground. They're all engaging. Right. I just, I feel like it makes a big difference. And a lot of the nervous system terminates in the sole of the feet. So there's in Chinese medicine, there's a lot of attention paid. You know, a reflexology is about how, you know, is that real?

I don't know how real it is, but it is real that the a lot of the nervous system terminates at the soles of the feet. That's why foot massage feels so good. And so the theory is with this barefoot shit is that by having that experience, you're describing where your toes are digging in and you're feeling your weight being, you know, shifting in different parts of your foot, having that part of your body alive and active is really good for your overall psychological health and nervous health. That makes sense. It does make sense. Yeah. It just feels good to do.

And that's the thing. Things feel good for a reason, right? You know, we're evolved to have them feel good because it's good for us. Brings us back to beating off. Or fucking one of those dog things. Or jerking off a dog with your foot. I wonder, we should call that company and ask questions and they say like, what kind of dog do you have? Oh, I don't have a dog.

Yeah, there's nefarious intentions. I just like watching dogs fuck robots. It's just for, yeah, dogs that wander by. Yeah, my friend Joe, when I was growing up, Joe Spagnola, he had a dog that was this really ornery little dog, and this dog had a stuffed animal that it would fuck And it would just bite this stuffed animal and fuck the shit out of it and you come over his house Joe spags go over his house and his dog would be fucking the shit out of this stuffed animal

You like whoa, how do you clean it? I don't know man. You couldn't even go near that thing that dog He would get ferocious if you tried to get near his stuffed animal. He was a little tiny ass dog, too. I don't remember what he was. Well, that's like your friend with the restraining order, man. Love is love, you know? There's no way around it. What are you going to do?

But that dog was obsessed. Like, that was his world. His world was like biting the stuffed animal and just fucking the shit out of it. Hey, somebody asked me to raise an issue with you okay uh apparently you've you're under the impression that everyone died at 30 in prehistory is that true uh i i joke around about that all the time that lifespans were incredibly low a long time ago okay people live to be like 30 you know it's hyperbole for the most part okay i. I know people did live longer, but the age

that people died, the average age was much lower than it is today. Just because lots of babies died. Is that all it is? Yeah, it's a mathematical average, but our species by design has evolved to live into our 60s and 70s. And hunter gatherers who get through the first

few years where there's a lot of risk oh so it's a youth thing oh so it's all rounded out it's a math thing yeah oh that's interesting because i was under the impression that you know people just got died of violence and a lot of diseases by the time they were in their 30s no most of the diseases that we suffer from are the result of agriculture so you look at all the major killers of humans. Swine flu. From pigs, right? Right.

Chicken pox from chickens, obviously. Avian bird flu. All the flus come from domesticated birds. Go back to that, Jamie. What are you posting up there? Human lifespan nearly constant for 2,000 years. Whoa. So like ultimate lifespan?

But what I was talking about mostly is disease and violence. Yeah, the violence thing is overrepresented. Unless you live in Mongolia. If you read the, yes, what is it, 75? I don't know if that looks like prehistory. Is this not good? Okay. Life expectancy for men in 1907 was 45 years.

45 years. By 1957, it rose to 66. 2007, it reached 75. Unlike the most recent increase in life expectancy, which is attributed largely to a decline in half of the leading causes of death, including heart disease, homicide, and influenza, the increase in life expectancy between 1907 and 2007 was largely due to the decreasing infant mortality rate, which is like 9.99%. That's interesting. So what that is like is like the wage gap, the gender wage gap issue. Right.

Where a lot of people say, they love to quote that thing, they say that men make so much more money than women that women make sort of 80 cents to the dollar. Right. But they're doing different jobs. Right. So, like, you think about it, you go, wow, there's an injustice going on. And then you realize, like, well, maybe there is some sexism, but this is not what they're talking about when they're saying this. Right. They're talking about different jobs.

The men are at higher risk. They die more often on the job. Men, like, they almost exclusively populate the community of minors and, you know, lumberjacks and shit like that where people get hit by trees. Right. Yeah. And women take time off when they have kids. They also work less hours. They're less crazy.

Some men will fucking work themselves to death where very few women will take it to that level. There certainly are plenty of examples of men and women doing exactly the same job and women are getting paid less. I'm sure it must happen, but it's not statistically significant. Statistically, it's not what you're talking about. Yeah, and you know what they attribute that from? When women get less, they think that one thing to be considered when you look at that is that women might not be as aggressive when they're negotiating a starting salary. Right.

And that men may be more confident and cocksure of their worth, you know, more cocky with how they, knows, though. I don't. But it's one of those things. So I was under the impression that people did die. Yeah. Well, most people are under that impression. I've I've had I've spoke, you know, given talks at medical schools and stuff. And all these doctors think that everyone died at 35. A 35 year old was old. And they're like and it works its way into medicine where they're like, OK like okay look the reason you have chronic back pain is that the human body was not evolved to live beyond 35 and so of course you have wear and tear and things like that's totally false the

human bodies evolved to live into the 70s so it's a statistical thing it's like if bill gates moves into your neighborhood suddenly everyone's average annual salary is hundreds of millions of dollars, right? So if you count all these infants who died in prehistory, many of whom, by the way, died from infanticide, like twins normally are not allowed to survive. The weaker one is left in the woods to die. What? Yeah. Any sort of deform and malformality. They would just leave them in the woods by themselves?

Yeah. What a cruel way to handle it. Yeah. Ooh, that's dark, man. They would leave them to wolves. That's fucked up, man. Yeah. Leave your baby in a basket and run away.

Yeah. Ooh. Yeah, there's a lot of infanticide. But, you know, in our world- A lot of it, huh? Yeah. Was it just because the times were harder then and it was more accepted that you were going to have to do some terrible things that you didn't want to do? Well, it's just that, you know, if a kid's born physically fucked up in some way, you know, you're not going to have the resources.

And that kid's not going to, that person's not going to grow up to contribute to the group. And so generally, and also there's a different sense of life and death. I think where death is much more a daily presence, it's not that big a deal. So we're all going to die there. I was reading about a tribe in the Amazon. I can't remember the name of the tribe, but when someone gets too old to keep up with the group someone is chosen randomly like they have a lottery or pick the shortest straw or whatever it is and their job is to come up behind this old person and hit him in the back of the head with a hatchet oh boy right and no one wants to do it it sucks. But everyone agrees it has to be done.

And it's the least cruel option that they've come up with. You got to be real careful of the dude who keeps signing up for that job. Exactly. Me, me, me. I got it, dude. I'm good with a hatchet. But you just did it last time, Joe. Like fucking Popeye.

Joe, you've killed nine old ladies this month. Hey, hey, this bitch is gone. It's over. Okay, we're just letting her suffer. That's weird, man. That's a weird gig. So anyway, no human being has ever been old at the age of 40. Look at this.

Heartbreaking pictures of parents leaving their children in China's notorious baby hatches. Oh, yeah. What is that? Well, that's probably girls. The moment of despair as parents cling to their children for one last time before abandoning them in China's so-called baby hatches. The father kisses his child, her face hidden in a blanket. The mother holds her hooded baby as their shadows are cast upon the last door they will pass through together. Another collapses to the ground, reaching out to touch her son for the last time.

What in the fuck? Oh god the baby this is she says in quotes my baby cannot take care of itself when it grows up one woman cries explaining that her infant has down syndrome i just want my baby to survive she tells the information times news based and i don't know how to say that guang yu zhao she had an accompanying female friend leave both in tears. Fuck, man. Well, this has been happening forever. I mean, we have safe baby drop-offs here. Every hospital has a sign that it's a safe baby drop-off.

Take that off the screen, sir. And in medieval Europe, it was so common that they had these little boxes that rotated. And so you could leave your baby and just spin the box. So you didn't have to look at it? And no one would ever see you. No one would see who was dropping it off. It was anonymous. Oh, my God.

Very common. They're called foundling hospitals. And over 90% of the babies left there died within a year. Oh, boy. In Germany, they had what are they called? Angel makers. Hospitals and over 90% of the babies left there died In Germany they had with what are they called Angel Makers? This and this is through the beginning of the 20th century up to World War two It was a nanny that you hired with the understanding that your baby was gonna die So it's like a babysitter who's gonna kill your baby. Oh my god

Yeah So you would hire this nanny because your kid had Down syndrome or some sort of a disease or something like that? Or it was born out of wedlock, you know, whatever. So the nanny would kill the baby? Yeah. Oh, my God. And they called them angel makers. The idea that infanticide was statistically significant, that it's significant in the death of the population, that that was so common. significant, that it's significant in the death of the population, that that was so common.

Well, I mean, today we have abortion and I don't want to get into, you know, heavy shit, but like now if a baby's inconvenient or there's a disease that's detected or whatever, you know, Cut it off at the pass. You cut it off at the pass. In those days there wasn't. So it was sort of postnatal abortion, essentially. I feel like abortion is one of those subjects where immediately upon breaching the subject, there's a tension in the room. I've just felt it. I apologize for it.

No, I mean... You're right. There's no way... Because the thing is, both sides are right. Right. That's the problem. You're 100% right. Yeah.

That's 100% the problem. Yeah. And there are a lot of issues like that. Yeah, it's one of those things where people scream at you and get crazy and they'll pick a side and it's death and it's this and it's that, and it's, it's a woman's choice to choose. And it's, you're both right. You're both right. Like I got in an argument once with a comedian about it and he, it was about Richard Dawkins was talking about a, um, it was on Twitter that an embry a human embryo, is like, it's almost no different than a pig embryo.

Like he was making this like about at, you know, six weeks of life or whatever it would be. A very, very, very early age. Yeah. I guess not even, that wouldn't even be an embryo, right? What would it be? It's still an embryo. It's not a fetus yet. Right, okay.

So an embryo is the earliest stages. And he was comparing it to a pig. And I was like, well, you know how crazy that is? That's a ridiculous thing to say because it's not going to be a pig. But if you leave it alone, it's going to be a person. So you know it's going to grow into be a person. Like saying that it's no different than a pig is totally disingenuous. Right.

So I mean, this comedian, we were arguing and he started calling me a right winger. He's like saying that I was right wing. I'm like, I am not right wing. But you are definitely killing a person that's about to be born I mean, that's what you're doing. You're cutting it off what you cut off at three cells or three months It's the same thing. It really is. I mean it's not it's not it becomes it becomes much more like a baby It looks more like a baby. It's more. It's more Intensive a procedure, but once the process is started you've decided at various stage of the way that it becomes okay you know like late-term abortions are frowned upon by

almost everybody right when you get into the fucking the last couple of weeks of a baby's life you can't really or before it gets birthed nobody very few people are going to agree that you could just suck out the baby with a vacuum when it's nine months old. You know, that's a little intense, right? Almost everybody agrees that's a little intense. So that means that we all have some sort of a reasonable cutoff, anybody who believes in abortion. We have some sort of a reasonable cutoff when we're accepted. When it's a bundle of cells, when it looks like a fish, like when is it okay?

When's it okay? And that's all I'm saying. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't be able to do it. And's definitely not my choice i don't have a body that makes babies and do you think it starts at conception or is jerking off killing millions of sperm no because jerking off doesn't ever make that connection there's not it's not a viable so it is conception process that started i mean i don't necessarily think life starts at conception i mean i literally have I mean if someone can Prove like if you had a turkey tester that pops up when you're pregnant like the moment think oh shit We got one and you can just push that sucker down that egg would

Shoot out that fertilized egg would shoot out of your pussy and then that would be a wrap I got no problem with that right? I don't have a problem with any of it I mean I do I think I think intellectually I don't I wouldn't say i have a problem with it because again i submit that i don't have a vagina i don't have ovaries i don't have a womb i'm not making babies i have an opinion and that's it there's no way i should be able to say yes or no when i see it as this weird sort of a situation where we've figured out a way to terminate life inside the body where we can't see it yet Yeah, it hasn't come out and said hi. Hi daddy. It hasn't done that yet, so we get hit the brakes, okay? I don't want to I don't want to do it. Whoo. We figured it out

I don't think that there's I don't necessarily think it's wrong or right, but it is a thing Yeah You know it's a thing and people Require that you speak of this thing in the way they speak of this thing. Right. And if you don't, they are fucking ready to duke. They're ready to duke it out. I'm with you.

Because the differentiation is the pro- Choice or pro-life. People are saying it's not a life. Right. And the other people are saying you're killing a living thing, a person. And I'm in there where it's like, no, you are killing something, but it's not a person. Not yet. So I agree with both.

Right. But fundamentally, I agree with what you just said, which is it's really none of my fucking business. It's not my body. And no woman can tell me whether you get a vasectomy or not or prostate exam or whatever the fuck it is. can tell me whether you get a vasectomy or not or prostate exam or whatever the fuck it is. They just passed a law in Arkansas or somewhere that husbands need to be informed before a woman can have an abortion and a husband can stop it even if she's been raped. That's medieval. That's ownership of another person. Yeah. Husband or a wife being able to tell the other one what they can or can't do with a medical procedure that's illegal.

Yeah. That becomes like an owner. That definitely becomes an ownership issue. Like if your wife told you you couldn't get a vasectomy. I will not allow it. Right. What? Yeah.

I will not allow you to eat meat either. Yeah. I will not allow you to have ice cream. Fat fuck. Yeah. You know, like all of a sudden, like she decides what you're going to eat. I will not allow you to keep that haircut. People talk that way all the time.

Yeah, they're crazy. Oh, I would never let my husband blah blah blah Your husband's a pussy Yeah, well and your wife is you know under threat or in you know under ownership if she allows the same sort of situation Like a guy makes her do things yeah yeah i've known uh people that their uh their husbands have made them get plastic surgery ah jesus yeah yeah yeah talk them into it you know i want you to do this for me yeah get the big tits yeah get the lips i want those lips oh the lips oh man you should do something about your nose i don't like your nose it's bothering me you could be prettier baby i'd show you off weird if you off you fix your nose and then there are those people who like who like fatties you know the the like they feed the other person

it's part of their eroticism to feed you as much as possible so you'll get as fat because i love you getting you know it's yeah that's not cool very strange people are fucking weird man i you know i don't think hunter gatherers are kinky noinky. No? No. This is the thing. I think kink is a response to a fucked up environment. Repression. Yeah. It's this weird pressure. It's conflict between the impulse and what's allowed, so it comes out in this weird distorted way.

I think that makes total sense. So, yeah, hunter-gatherers, Hunter Gatherer, as far as I know, there's no evidence of kink. It's hard to get latex, let's face it, in the jungle. Although that's where it comes from originally. Have you ever met Wade Davis, by the way? No. You should meet that guy.

Who is Wade Davis? He's fascinating. I just had him on my podcast. He's an ethnobotanist. Does he live around here? He lives in Vancouver. But he's an author. I'm sure he comes to L.A. regularly.

But he's the guy. Actually, we were talking about 5-MeO-DMT. He and Andrew Weil isolated that for the first time. Whoa. As white people, anyway. Whoa. He studied at Harvard. Then he went to the Amazon for a long time.

He lived with a lot of tribes there. Very interested in hallucinogens. He's written a bunch of books. His first book was about voodoo. Something about the horsemen of the apocalypse or something like that. He wrote a book called One River. He's written seven or eight books. He's a National Geographic explorer in residence. He's the super badass dude. Damn. I told one of his stories on your podcast a long time ago about this Eskimo dude, old guy, and the family said, Grandpa, we got to take away the keys to the snow machine because you can't see so well. And he's like, fuck you guys.

And that night he went out. It was winter in the Arctic somewhere. He took a shit and he fashioned a blade from his shit. Do you remember that story? Oh, yeah, carved himself out of the snow. Well, he killed the dogs and he made a harness out of the one dog's skin and a little sled out of the dog's ribs. And then he tied in three or four other dogs and then he fucking took off across the tundra. Anyway, that's a Wade Davis story.

He's insane. So he made a knife out of his own shit he folded his night folded he yeah he forms the blade and then he takes some he freezes and then he takes some spit and he rubs it along the edge and apparently that's what gives it the razor sharpness yeah and then he fucking kills his dog with a shit knife that's right i remember that there's another how i bought zombie poison in america inside the eclectic court of award-winning writer wade davis former national geographic explorer in residence ethno botanist and park ranger he's a super cool

guy jesus christ what a life that guy's lived yeah yeah he's uh again that's a guy like i want to fucking meet these guys you know i don't yeah so he's cool he's's a guy like i want to fucking meet these guys you know yeah so he's cool he's up in vancouver well listen man unfortunately i gotta book yeah we can do this all the time though man you're uh you're in the you're back in the states i am i got nothing to sell i had nothing to promote doesn't matter man lazy hippie lifestyle promote your podcast tangentially speaking it's a hilarious, awesome podcast. And you do it fairly recently. Every week.

Or fairly often. Every week. Every week. Okay, cool. That's awesome. And let's do this more often, dude. You're around. I'm here.

Fuck yeah. And it's that Chris Ryan now. It used to be Chris Ryan PhD on Twitter, but Duncan Trussell fucking ruined all that. Him and Brendan Walsh. They stole my PhD, those fuckers. They put PhD next to their name and now PhD

doesn't mean anything anymore. So that Chris Ryan. Thanks brother. Thank you. You're awesome man. Yeah, you too. See you guys. Bye. Thank you.