The Joe Rogan Experience - #921 - Dominick Cruz

Episode Date: February 23, 2017

Dominick Cruz is a mixed martial artist and former two-time UFC Bantamweight Champion. He also is a UFC Color Commentator & Analyst on FOX.

These are sick. It's like those MREs. Two, one, bam. Yeah, Dominic Cruz is sitting here and he's looking at this thing called Green Belly Meal, Meal to Go. The guy who created this is like this long distance hiker. Like he does those

like, do you know that trail? What is it called? The Appalachian Trail that goes from... I know of it. You know of it? Yeah. What does it go from like Georgia to Maine or something crazy like that? And these people walk it. It takes like six Yeah. What does it go from like Georgia to Maine or something crazy like that? And these people walk it. It takes like six months. Yeah. I'm into stuff like that, but that's like a whole different part of your life I feel like you get to when you do stuff like that.

Well, you got to have a real commitment because you're not doing anything but that for six months. Yeah. It's a different lifestyle change. Yeah. It's like a different time in your life I feel when you do something like that. Yeah. different lifestyle change yeah it's like a different time in your life i feel when you do something like that yeah but like being a fighter do you feel like like you're pretty limited as to what you can do outside of fighting you as far as like you're always recovering from training you're

always involved in in something related to either promotion or preparation yeah agreed it's it's um i mean i'm not telling you anything you don't know. How many of these things have you done with pro athletes? I've done a lot. I've done a lot, yeah. You know that it's all or nothing. Yeah. Because everybody's so good that if you don't invest every ounce of yourself into something,

there's somebody else that is, in my opinion. So it's like, you have to do that or else you get passed by. Yeah. is in my opinion so it's like you have to do that or else you get passed by yeah and you also feel like there's you have to be super objective too about where you stand and where your skills are at because of course you're always you're either at a point of constant improvement or you're at some sort of stagnation or a decline yes um i think so but then that question always comes to mind according to win and loss ratio, which doesn't always tell the truth because that's not always the fact.

It could just be a bad night and a good matchup and they had a game plan or you lost and now you're going to sit and go to the drawing board and say that everything was off because of one loss. It doesn't really make sense to me. So it's kind of a mixture. You've got to find the happy medium. It comes down to trust in the people around you. Not having nothing but yes men around you. And I feel like as long as you have a good solid base of people that give the truth to you, then you don't have to think

with your emotion and you can think with logic. And then I think it's important to have those people around you so you don't steer off the course. Right. Because even if you, I mean, even if you do have a loss, it's not saying that everything is off, but certainly something wasn't adequate in that particular matchup. Yeah. Right. So you're just getting off of the second loss ever of your mixed martial arts career. The first one, you got caught by Uriah with a guillotine. And then the second one, this Cody no love fight. What are your thoughts on it now, having time to reflect and look back?

Well, my thoughts are I pretty much laid it all out right away because I wanted to just do that, which was at the press conference, the post-fight press conference. I pretty much just wanted to, like, I literally laid every ounce of every thought I had at that moment out there for everybody to hear at a point where I'm very vulnerable. And I did that on purpose to show that we're not all, you know, the same. Some people don't want to show their vulnerability. Some people want to just be seen as only perfect, only tough, only strong. And really the truth of what makes the strongest people in the world is their vulnerability early until they learn how to be tough.

And, you know, losing is part of that lesson, unfortunately, for everybody. And being unsuccessful is part of that lesson for people just as much as losing. So it's like, you do what you can with it. And that's how I feel now is like, I do what I can with it. And the only way to make the best of it is to accept it right the second it happens. Understand that that's just the way it is. That's the way that this has been slated for this portion of my life. And just move forward. And as long as you embrace it, don't make excuses for it. And then you can actually look at what you did wrong and take it in.

The second you make an excuse, the second you say, well, I was a little off here, a little off there because of this, this, and this, is the second you allow your mind to go into a path of, well, it wasn't in my control, which means you're not really dealing with the problems at hand, I don't think. I think you're kind of bypassing the problems at hand when you do that. And then you can't grow from the experience. So what's the point of a loss if you're not going to grow from it and get the most out of it? Now it's just useless if you don't accept it.

Yeah, there's a real instinct that many fighters show, like almost immediately after a loss to go right into what was wrong with the camp, what was wrong with an injury, what they could have done differently, personal problems. And that really can wreak havoc with your mind. Correct. I agree. I think more than wreaking havoc with your mind, I think it just shows how long it's going to take for them to get over the loss. I mean, that's the thing. The second you just say it, lay it all out there and everybody knows, including yourself, the next step is growth. It's no longer stagnant and sitting and feeling the loss and trying to accept it. I've already accepted it. I accepted it the second I shook

his hand in that octagon and they raised his hand as the winner. Like, I mean, am I really going to sit here and make excuses? Because let's say on the judges scorecard, I had some mindset that's like, oh, I shouldn't have lost the decision or maybe this, maybe that. It's like, what's the point of that? Because in the end, it's already been chucked. It's already there. It's written down. Yeah, it's like what's the point of that because in the end it's already been chucked it's already there it's written down yeah it's over regardless of what anybody says it's not that's not leaving that piece of paper so what's the point of really saying all this stuff letting people argue that well you could have won here you could have won what is where is the argument

anymore where's the logic and then where's the point and all that and i'm just sick and tired of excuses i've fought so many years winning so many years hearing so many excuses about why I beat people And I wanted to set a perimeter right off the bat that I'm not that person Now you're getting really well known as an MMA analyst, and I think you do an amazing job on Fox I think you're one of the best guys in the world out You're really really good at it But one of the things that people are getting a chance to see because of that is how your mind works and how much thought you put into not just fighting itself, but the whole process, the whole process of preparation and mindset

while the competition is going on. And that's also being reflected right now in the way you express how you get over a loss. Like where did, where did, where have you learned to think like this? Well, my mom is a big reason for that. I would say early on, she just always forced me to deal with the things I didn't want to deal with and not just deal with them, but look at them in the eye and talk about it. Like what kind of stuff? Anything like you steal a packet of gum from the store and talk about it like what kind of stuff anything like you steal a packet of gum from the store and you walk out with it and you're seven years old and you get home and you're eating a piece of gum and your mom goes i didn't buy that for you where'd you get that gum

and we drive back with the gum in my mouth put in the wrapper show the person that at the front and that's not enough because i embarrassed the cash register so i gotta apologize to them and then i gotta go to the owner of the of the of the store the manager and apologize to them and then i gotta go to the owner of the of the of the store the manager and apologize to them and then might have to go paint a wall for them to make up for the piece of gum that i i mean it goes all the way down to that like my mom has been that way since i can remember to where there's just there she would never ever let me make an excuse for anything i ever did ever and I used to get so frustrated with her because she would also never really get mad. She would never really like raise her voice. She

would never really show a whole lot of emotion. It was, she would literally say, I'm not going to yell. I'm not going to scream. I'm not going to get angry. I'm not going to give you that power, but that's one. And that meant I was getting one whooping when I got home, when I did something wrong. And so now I got to sit and think about that for the next five hours until we get home. And then she takes me into a room and she sits me down with no anger. Everything's understood. And she says, do you know why we're here? And she explains to me why we're here and why I'm in trouble and why I'm getting smacked on the ass with this breadboard.

And she just, there was never any escaping anything ever so it's like it put me in this weird mindset where i just i don't make excuses and anybody who makes excuses i call them out on it because it's old it's annoying it's it's flawed in my opinion it's just weak that's a great lesson that's a great way to be raised too your mom i'm not perfect don't get me wrong i'm not saying i do this every time it's just something that's like made me uh that you asked how i got that in my mind and it just it wired me a little different my grandma's a pretty pretty crazy on that too so between my grandmother and my mom who helped raise me because cause my dad wasn't around so much,

those two molded me into this weird being. Do you think they could have got through it without beating you without the paddle? No, absolutely not. You think that was imperative? It was me and my brother. Right.

It was too much. We were little mutants, you know, in the trailer park. Like we'd be, we'd be fighting. My little mutants you know we're in the trailer park like we'd be we'd be fighting my mom's at work we're in the trailer we lived in a trailer across the street from my grandmother and it was like four hundred dollars a month you know to live in this trailer one bedroom single wide she would come when we would fight we'd hear the door open and my grandma would be at the door and me and my because you could hear us slamming into the floor

because it's echoes from the bottom of the trailer right and so she'd run across the street and oh no we knew we were in trouble when grandma came over it was bad news so i don't know it's just a weird upbringing kind of to an extent i think everybody got raised by their family but by my mom and my grandmother it just it put a different mentality in me and my grandmother's a very tough individual she's been through a lot now when you fighting, how did they approach it? Yeah, that's another odd thing is my mom was just all support. She even, I was going to college when I started, when I start, just started, I was coaching a local high school and one of the kids that I was coaching straight,

I was 19 years old at this point and I just graduated high school and started coaching a local high school team because I wanted to compete. Wrestling, correct. And I didn't get into college like I wanted to to wrestle and didn't do all these things. So I just needed to compete. So I got in the room and started coaching these kids. Well, they're my age. They're 18. I'm 19.

I just graduated. So we become friends. One of these guys invites me to a gym he goes to. I jump in there and start training, right? So during this time, my mom, I'm going to school. So I'm working three jobs. You know, I work at Sherwin-Williams. I'm a janitor at the gym. And then I'm coaching this high school wrestling team. And then I'm going to school at night and I'm training in between that. So this is what I'm doing in Tucson. And during this time, my, I told my mom, you know, I'm just so tired of school. I go to night school after my three jobs,

I go three jobs and then I go to night school at 8 PM and I'm just wore out. I'm sitting in Spanish class one day trying to learn like what I've been learning in high school and in Spanish class. I'm like, why am I paying for this school when I just did this class in high school and now I'm paying for it to get an associate's degree degree to go to another four years in college that I'm going to be in debt for? Like, what am I doing? I don't want to be here. I wasn't happy in school after all my days at work. Um, so I said, you know, the only time I felt free and happy was in the gym. That's the only time I could talk and laugh and smile and be myself, hurting other people, punching things, kicking things, yelling at things, telling people how I felt. And then if they had a problem, we could fight about it. I was at peace there. Um, so I, I just stopped going to school and said, mom,

I'm going to start, I'm going to start training to become a fighter. I said, they got the ultimate fighter going on. Um, it's a big thing. It's growing. Now's the time. If I'm going to do it, I need to go all in. She said, okay, you don't need to go to school to be successful you don't need to go to college um follow your heart and you will be successful it's a guarantee and she was right wow that's that's fascinating my mom has a weird spiritual emotional way of talking explaining and getting through to me I, that can't be explained until you meet somebody like that. Well, also it's not, I mean, there's no one that's ever going to be able to recreate that because she made you. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. I mean,

I think everybody's mom, everybody believes their mom has their own, I mean, moms are special, you know, we all know that, but every, every person has their own way that they were raised and brought up, and then they pass that on to their child. My mom had a hard life. So I think she's just so wise that she passed a lot of wisdom off to me young because she just, growing up and raising us, broke like she did by herself, I think just taught her so much that she didn't want us to have to live any kind of struggle life like that.

So she made us learn the hard way with her instead of her taking everything and not teaching us anything. We lived it with her and grew in the experience with her. And then that got added to my life and what I wanted to do moving forward. Now, you developed a really unusual fighting style. Now you developed a really unusual fighting style. I mean, I think I've said about you that one of the more unusual things about your style is that I could watch you and uh they're not really indicative of like a style like you know there's the muay thai style people have that light front leg there's a karate style like you know wonder boy thompson there's a bunch of styles where you go oh i see what this guy's doing your Your style is very uniquely yours. What sort of caused that?

Where'd that come from? It's a mixture of things. I mean, I've been fighting since as long as the Diaz brothers. I started when I was 19 years old back in 2005, and I've been doing it since then. So that's part of it is just years and years of fighting and facing different people and seeing what the issues were. But more than that, it was built around the fact that I knew whether I knew I was ahead or not. My mindset said I have to fight, do something different because this is a new sport with new rules and new different equipment than has ever been seen in the history of this world.

So that means there's four-ounce gloves. We're using kicks, knees, elbows, and hands, everything, right? All eight limbs. So I said, I need to make sure that I'm not taking damage. As long as I'm not taking damage, I should win. I've got to be hard to hit. And my defense needs to be flawless with these size gloves it's not gonna be the same as boxing i can't just sit here and cover like this because

my gloves are a quarter the size things peek in and i learned that real quick and so i said all right so i need to move non-stop i can't sit still like i do in boxing or kickboxing because you're gonna get taken down as well so that's that's where my mind started changing is with the takedown. That's where I knew I really had to do something different. In no striking sport on earth is there a takedown involved. So that means that I need to attack on a different plane. And that means I need to not be down the center line. As long as I fight not down the center line, it takes away. As long as I don't fight on the center line all the time it takes

away almost all weapons from all styles boxing is probably the one style that flows most off the center line but we're talking about muay thai or we're talking about wrestling or we're talking about uh judo or we're talking about almost other martial art, they attack down a straight line. And so I knew I could take away most of their weapons just by changing the plane that I fought on. If I fought on a different plane than them, then they would not have answers for the plane that I'm fighting on because everything they do is on that line. So instead of fighting them in their style, I fought the lines that they're fighting on. And then that kind of changed things mixed with the defense. Well, I've always enjoyed watching you fight and I've always enjoyed

explaining how you fight to people that have never seen martial arts or don't understand it. Because for people on the outside, maybe someone who's not a fan or never did any martial arts training, they look at it like just violence. You know, they see guys just beating the shit out of each other. And what I, the way I try to describe it to A friend once I said think about it this way It's it's a lot like a conversation and the more words you have at your disposal the more verbal memory you have the more used to stringing together sentences you are the more Fluently the conversation is gonna come out of your mouth the more it's gonna flow right and when you're watching

And then I'll show someone like you When you're trying to have you know, which called a conversation trying to have a conversation with Dominic Cruz inside the octagon You don't know where the fuck he's going like you you you're setting up so many weird angles and so much weird movements So many false entries and there's so much going on that you're in a lot of ways. You're Overloading a person's reactions. ways, you're overloading a person's reactions. Yeah. You're overloading their mind. Well, that is partially what I'm trying to do.

Yes, I'd agree. Now you're starting to see that over time there's an answer for every style. There's an answer for everything. Yeah. And that's the fun of this thing is that it's not always stagnant. It's not always the same. And there is an answer to everything. And then you got to adjust an answer to everything that's

and then you gotta adjust right so um that's what i'm built on is adjustments my whole game is built on adjustments so it can always change and always look different because every round i come out with a different adjustment off of what you did to me and now you're fighting a different guy every round you just don't know it um but that comes from fakes and seeing what they want on you and that comes from their game plan it's a whole mixture of reads in there and that that's a that's something that you either have or you don't have you know somebody like anderson silva can make reads extremely quickly right and that's what's made him so successful demetrius johnson reads extremely quickly makes him successful the best in the world adjust.

And for me, the best in the world aren't the ones who just win. It's the ones who win and stay on top for a long period of time. Because now you don't just have a style to win a fight. You have a style to stay winning, which means that your style hits so many different avenues that you can compete with all these different styles, no matter what they match you up against until now my style, I built it so that no matter which style you try to throw at me, it was going to give it a problem.

And that was the basis that I wanted to create when I fought every single time I fought somebody. It was, it doesn't matter what your gift is. The planes that I'm going to fight you on, make it impossible for your gifts to be your gifts anymore. Now I've seen you practice and I've seen your footwork drills and I've seen, you know, a lot of your steps and the different various entries you have to techniques. Are these moves that you've learned from somewhere? have you acquired them from other martial arts? Have you sort of adjusted them and adapted them? Or did you figure them out your own? It's been a mixture.

Working with Eric Delfero was a huge step because I had a lot of natural— He's one of the best coaches in the sport and one of the most underappreciated guys because he doesn't blow his own horn. That's why I love him. I like the coaches that don't need the pats on the back for themselves. They're about the athlete. Eric is about every athlete he's ever coached. He's not about himself. He's a great corner man, too.

When he starts talking in the corner, he's outstanding. He knows what he's doing. He's been in this sport 20-plus years. The bigger thing that Eric doesn't get credit for is his understanding of the psychology that goes into preparing somebody to win a fight. You can have all the tools around that person. They could be the best human being on earth, but if their mind is not pieced together, the psychological pieces are not there, you're not going to be able to trigger them and get them in the fight when you need to. Jeremy Stevens is a great example of somebody like that. Sometimes you got to like get crazy with that dude in the corner and like even

like slap him around a little bit maybe, and he just goes and he'll kill somebody. It's like there's a psychological thing about certain athletes that you have to be able to touch on. Same with Greg Jackson. There's another guy who can do that. And that's what makes a good coach on that night, a good corner man on that night, not just what you did for eight weeks holding pads and patting the guy on the back and wiping the sweat off their

shoulders and you know doing interviews and looking famous with them like what are you doing to make sure this person wins on that night not what are you doing to make sure you look good in this person's corner while he wins right and that's something that i've run into a lot with people is people a lot want to associate themselves with you when you're winning and not actually be there for you, but be there. So they look good in your corner while you win. And those are the people you got to cut out. Those are the yes men. And those are, those are the ones you got to be careful with. Eric is the opposite of that. Um, and he's somebody, that's why I stick with him. He's somebody I can trust. He understands my psychology, understands my, the emotional

rollercoaster of outside of life, personal life, fight life, everything mixed together. We've gone through this together. And then he's a trustworthy person. There are not a lot of people you can trust in this industry these days or in fighting in general, boxing or MMA, so it's hard. He knows his stuff, and he is underrated. And I think the fact that he doesn't toot his own horn,

he doesn't get on these interviews, it does hurt him a little but that was what was hurting me early in my career too, we're a lot alike and I had to say if I'm going to make a living, if I'm going to really do this fight thing, I better start stepping this media thing up, I better start stepping up this portion that we're doing right

here and figure out a way to make it because this is part of the sport, you're no longer always fighting who deserves, who's the best in the world. You're now fighting in this era the best superstar, not just the best athlete. And so you've got to

be a happy mixture. And when you can figure that out, you start piecing your career together. You look at Eric Delfero, he hasn't figured that out. He doesn't want to. He doesn't care about it. And so you don't know about him. But you should. He doesn't want to. He doesn't care about it. And so you don't know about him. But you should. He doesn't have to. He doesn't have to. The best people know about it.

Know about him, rather. Now, that's an interesting thing you put that up to because it seems like, I mean, it doesn't just seem like it. It is. But fighters in general and trainers almost all at one point in time were fighters or at least martial artists. A lot of them are broken people looking to rebuild. And that's what martial arts does for them. That's what fighting and competing does for them. It gives them an identity. It gives them a sense of purpose and a sense of worth. And that those types of people oftentimes get very selfish. And it's very difficult to find

someone that you trust enough to let them all in and then once they do they're intensely connected correct you know I mean the bonds that you have with people that you train with and people that you spar with on a regular basis or people that you've competed with and gone to places with I don't think people that don't expect I don't think people that have never experienced such an intense competition will ever truly understand that kind of a bond that people share. I agree. And ironically, just by chance, pretty much every one of the closest friends in my life,

I have fought almost to a bloody death. And that's what's so crazy. That's what tells me. Well, you know them, yeah. I know them. And you can't lie to me. Yeah. There's nothing you're going to lie to me about because if you lie to me, I'm going to see you on Monday, idiot. And we them. And you can't lie to me. Yeah. There's nothing you're going to lie to me about.

Because if you lie to me, I'm going to see you on Monday, idiot. And we're going to see what you're made of. Well, you'll know anyway. I mean, without even knowing what they're made of, you'll know they're lying. But it's different when you fight somebody. You literally know what they're made of when you see the look in their eye. And they say what they say, and they do what they do. And then they go and they fight, and they don't say what they say, and they don't do what they do. Yeah. they go and they fight and they don't say what they say and they

don't do what they do. And that's just fighting. And that's what's so refreshing about it to me. Yeah. Well, the psychological aspect of it, I mean, you know,

who, who has it that said this fighting is 90% mental and the, the other 10% in your head. I forget who said that. I don't remember either, but I've heard it. That's a great quote. I don't remember who said it,

but I mean, I believe it with all my heart. There's so many people out there that are so incredibly physically talented. And how many gym assassins do you know that for whatever reason, they just can't put it together? When the referee says, fighter, are you ready? Fighter, are you ready? Go. They just

are a fraction of who they really are. Well, just really break down and think about what happens to the ones that do make it and then have to deal with the media and the opinions. And I really feel like athletes, the biggest hurdle is the fact that we're willing to actually just get up there and say we might win, we might lose. Right. And just put that out there and say, are you willing to put yourself out there like that?

Are you willing to embarrass yourself if you do lose? Are you willing to deal with the media if you win for 10 years straight and then lose

and then now you're the worst guy that's ever been seen in the sport or the worst female that's ever been seen in the sport? You didn't even belong there?

Are you able to deal with that? That's the question. That's what being an athlete is. Well, that's what been seen in the sport you didn't even belong there are you able to deal with that that's the question that's what being an athlete is not well that's what being a fighter is yeah big difference between losing a basketball game what's true you lose a basketball game and people might think you're a fucking loser or a scrub but it's nothing like the shit that i see fighters face online no i mean just look at i i gotta bring ronda rousey up because it's heartbreaking for me as an athlete. I know what she's feeling. I know what she's going through.

And as a female, it's even on another level. I can't really imagine that. It's a different level of scrutiny, I would imagine. But it's just, it shows how hard it is to deal with this, man. Like the ups and downs because the downs hit hit hard just as hard as the ups hit. Yeah. And you got to be ready. And there can't be any separation in who you are with a win and a loss because if there is, it's going to show.

Yeah. And you got to be who you are and not be solely connected to fighting as your whole being. Otherwise, you're over when it ends. Right. whole being otherwise you're over when you when it when it ends right that was something about the ronda rousey promos that i always felt like i just i didn't like hearing it like she's like i gotta get back to fighting because it's the most important thing and it's the thing that i can be best in the world at i was like oh i actually like hearing that do you i do and the reason is it's such a lesson if you're really listening

in between the lines to the issue of the world. And that's just my opinion. We're all putting so much into this one thing and we think that that is our everything. When really, if she, it sounds cheesy, but if you put all that energy towards loving yourself and not the fight career, the fight career will still be there just as heavy as it is. Right. You know, so what I mean is she's using the fighting as her identity with that championship belt. She is Ronda Rousey, the Ronda Rousey without the championship belt. We don't know who she is. She won't come out. So who are you unless you're winning? We don't know. Do you know you're counting on that belt to know who you are now and that's that was my biggest point that was a hurdle i ran into when i lost my belt i didn't know who i was anymore

and that's how i knew this that's how i figured out what my issues were is all right dom you're getting ready to fight brow you ready yes i'm ready screw it let's do it these these these knees can't stop me these These injuries can't blow your, blow your quad out. Now you're out of that fight. Now we're taking your belt. But for people that don't know what we're going to about to be talking about, you had one of the most horrific injury streaks in the sport, in your prime, you know, you were considered to be one of the top pound for pound fighters in the world. And then you had a series of catastrophic injuries and surgeries. So for this is for a lot of people listening to this podcast that aren't really hardcore MMA fans.

Yeah, that makes sense. So you like, talk us through it because you went through like one of the most difficult trials in terms of recovery from injury. No, the most difficult I've ever seen anybody go through in the entire history of my time of calling fights. Well, for fighting, I definitely agree. In the sport of fighting. I've heard of the sport of NFL because I researched them. These guys who went through three ACL reconstructions came back and competed. And one of them was just competing.

They almost made it to the Super Bowl. And he had three ACL reconstructions in the game of football and came back and was still playing and he was like over there over 30 wow and people like that need to be around in this world sure just to let you know that's possible you know that it can be done and yeah and that was kind of what I what gate that mindset right there when you make it bigger than yourself is the only way you get the power to get through stuff like that and that's what got me through is understanding that I go through this, these knee surgeries. I become, it becomes bigger than me when I come back and succeed.

It's not just about me coming back and getting my belt. I already had belts. I already knew what it felt like to be a five-time world champion by that point at the age of 26 before I blew my knee out. I was on top of everything. I had everything that I thought I needed and wanted. Blew my knee out, get my belt stripped, go through three ACL reconstructions. You soon find out that you actually have no idea who you are. What was your initial injury?

ACL, MCL. What happened though? I was training while I was getting ready on The Ultimate Fighter back in 2012 or 11 for Faber Fight. We were getting ready to compete at the end of the show. And I was training with a guy, and it was just a hard week. I mean, we were the first show that ever went live and was training for the fight at the same time, being tough. We're the first and only live show that they did so that meant that while we coached we were also going to compete at the same time so like i had to do my fight camp while i trained the ultimate fighter guys simultaneously so i was doing four practices a day two with the tough guys and two with myself and that workload was just

insane that was a hard hard training camp ended up breaking me down um hurt my knee just sparring it was a sparring day guy went for a grappling transition and my and uh sagged on my hip weird and just blew my knee out a crappy takedown you know where they sag instead of actually get the takedown and it just blew my knee out when i blew my acl mcl i was i was like it's all right. You'll be fine. I fought it. I almost literally fought the injury. Like, you're too tough.

You're too strong. You're too young. You can do this. Let's go. Fought the injury, meaning not get surgery and try to rehab? Meaning you just heard what I just said. It didn't happen. Mentally.

I did the surgery. I did. That wasn't the problem, though. That's my point. The problem isn't if you're doing all the things right to get better. It's understanding that it was understanding that I didn't need to fight to be better. Giving up on it was when I finally got better. Understanding I didn't need fighting to be who I was.

When you say get better, you mean get better emotionally, psychologically? Well, physically. Even physically? Physically. I did not get better until I gave up on fighting the injury. And what I mean by fighting the injury is saying, you'll be fine. You'll come back.

Just keep training, keep training, keep training, keep training. And I trained, but in the logic that I was given with what I'm allowed to do. According to my physical therapist, Gavin McMillan, he would say, you can do this, this, and this. Don't push it. I wouldn't push it. I would do the things allowed. But I'm telling you, that wasn't the issue.

The issue was surrendering. The issue was knowing that fighting was the only way I was going to be happy then. It was being able to compete was the only way I could find peace. Being able to prove that I was as good as I always was, even after the injuries, became everything that I was trying to do. It was just a nonstop fight to just get healthy. And I'd get through my second ACL reconstruction on the same knee. Then I blow my quad out before I was supposed to fight. How did you blow out the second one?

You had the injury, you had it reconstructed, and then how do you blow out the second one? It's the same knee, and I was training on Christmas. How many months after the initial surgery? Six. So it's real recent. It's probably not 100% healed yet. It's not a hundred percent healed yet. Nine months is supposed to be full, full strength, but that, but six months is when you get to start pushing it to

get ready to full. So now you're like six months to six months. You're not allowed to do any kind of cutting, cutting, meaning no lateral movements movements just straight down the line nothing risky uh keep your brace on when you trained out at a six month mark they're like take the brace off you got to start getting the stabilizer strong you can start testing it more you can start doing things but you still got to wear wear your brace when you do live scenarios but you can drill without it you can you see what i'm saying so you're actually pretty strong but now it's supposed to be strong enough that it's not going to tear. But that's when I had a cadaver ACL. So it wasn't as strong as it should have been at that six-month point because it was cadaver tissue.

My body did not adapt to the tissue as well as it could have. Do they do an MRI to see where it's at or do they just kind of base it on how it feels? They base it on the end point and the stability of your knee. When they manipulate it? When they manipulate it at the six month mark. You're going in every two to three weeks for six months to double check with the doctor. I've had two. I've had two reconstructions.

Well, I was doing that at Curlin and Joe. They were good doctors and they tried to stay on me, you know? So you've had two, so you know. And you know at the six-month mark, it's like you can push it, but you don't want to overkill it because you'll tear it. So the second one, I wasn't overkilling it, but I was doing what I was allowed in my brace. And I made a cut, like a turn, and it just popped.

It's just like it wasn't anything like, oh, I shouldn't have been doing that. It was kind of like, you know, I was boxing in my brace. I had it taped. I warmed up. I stretched. Were you sparring? I was doing drills, boxing drills. Just drills?

Yeah, boxing drills. But you just pivot wrong, and it just pops, and then you know. Like I remember sitting there, i just the pain's very specific and then it goes away too quick that's when you know because it's there real real real real hard pain and then it goes away in like two minutes because the ligaments are gone so now you don't have pain anymore and i'm like oh no so i sit down and i go all right my knee's torn and that was when i hit like a real bad rock bottom on that one that was like that one like oh my gosh when i went to the mri and got home i literally like called my friend and i told him to

come over and i just i mean i i pretty much just drank as much of a bottle as i could because i was in pretty good shape at that point so it put me out i passed out my head was i woke up in my porch with my head on the grill in the morning. Just a mess. It was not pretty. But I didn't care because I was out for nine months. So everybody hits these lows. What were you doing financially back then? Because that's where it gets rough, right?

That's another part of it. Us athletes, we all know, or you know, we only make money when we fight for the prize. And thank God, Lorenzo and and the ufc they gave me a decent chunk of money for a good part of time while i had the belt and then once they took the belt i stopped getting that chunk of money even when i was hurt so they were paying me a little bit a stipend while i was hurt and that helped me and then when i a lot when they stripped the belt and gave it to brow they stopped with that you know because I'm not the champ anymore and then it was kind of like that's when that's what I mean that's when it kind of went got turned reality like you're not the champ um on paper anymore you didn't really lose it but that's it so what are you going to do

what is this it you know how are you going to make money how are you going to do this how are you going to do that and I panicked um but I knew that I was going to still come back and fight cause I was still young. And so I hadn't given up on fighting yet. Still only in my second ACL surgery. So I'm still not fully admitting that I'm not, that I'm a mess. Right. I'm kind of not really like admitting it to myself yet. And it's screw what you're saying're saying everybody else so i'm trying to say it's what you believe to yourself is all that matters right period and i was like i'll be fine this isn't that bad i i can do this i've gone through worse so in doing it i still hadn't really just given up yet and that's so i'm still i'm still competing in my mind which is the problem and uh that's when you, you're overworking and not just

doing things you're not supposed to on your knee, but just in general in life, I'm just overworking. I'm doing my Fox stuff now to make money. And then I'm trying to do my rehab, uh, five days a week because I had to come back and fight for the belt when I come back. And that's another thing people don't equate is I was the champ. So I got to come back and fight for the belt. When I come back after this injury, champ, so I got to come back and fight for the belt when I come back after this injury. I don't just get to come back and fight somebody three rounds. I got to come back and fight five rounds. Never been done before.

I had nobody to bounce this thought off of. I just had to wing it, man. And so I was, and that caused, I think, a lot of problems with me because I didn't have the mental capacity to deal with it at that point with all the things that I was doing. So I just kept grinding. And then I finally get back to health after the second ACL. Six, nine months goes by.

All right, let's take this brow fight. So I'm ready. I'm training in camp about a month in. I have like a weird pinch in my groin. It turns out to be the exact same injury Daniel Cormier just pulled out of the fight for it's the extensor tendon in your

or no it's the I forget the name of the there's a tendon in your groin area that pulls and then you gotta just rest it I tore the mine was a little bit worse I tore the muscle, the quad muscle off the bone so it like separated from the bone but it wasn't all the way it was just enough that it was i could still

like think i was okay but it would just fail on me occasionally so i could tape it some days and it would be all right shoot a bunch of toradol which is a for anybody who's curious it's a natural it's a legal anti-inflammatory. A lot of football players take it. Toradol? Toradol. Yeah, I think that's what it's called. But anyways, it's an anti-inflammatory, not a natural one.

But it's like ibuprofen but stronger. And I would take that and that helped. But it just wasn't right. I remember I was sparring one day and I went to throw a right hand and my leg just gave out and I fell on the floor I wasn't kicking I wasn't shooting I just threw a right hand and the feeling that of falling because I threw a right hand made me know like something wasn't connected like it just didn't feel right because it just failed me it wasn't it wasn't like it hurt and I stopped it just literally there was no pain and it just failed and i was like something's way mechanically wrong with me i can't fight mechanically wrong like this and that was about four weeks out of

the fight three four weeks out of the fight well i had already done a month camp with this injury trying to tough it out so my camp was rough it was a hard camp and i didn't want to pull out obviously naturally. So I ended up calling Dana and, and it's one of the few phone calls I've ever had with Dana, unfortunately. And this is probably one of the times you remember is telling him, I'm sorry, I got to pull out. But I remember not wanting to have my manager call him. This, this goes back to what my mom, how my mom put something in my head where you deal with this face to face or talking. So I called and I said, look, I don't want want to do this but i got to pull out of this fight i need some doc i need if you got any doctors you can have mri me whatever you want but i'm telling you something's wrong with

my leg so he's like okay i'll do it i got i got guys on it we can't have you pull out now well i'm sure you're fine check it out get the doctors check it yeah your quad's torn you can't fight so the ufc pulls me you know, Dana's naturally pissed. But then that slides Faber in there. Boom, Faber gets the shot with Burau, ends up getting knocked out in that matchup. But I pull out of that fight. That's when they strip my belt.

And then that was the beginning of me giving up on fighting to an extent. And what I mean by that is it's different than you think. It sounds negative, right? When you say that I'm giving up on fighting, but it is actually the building point in my life where I finally let go of control. I always had this thing up to that point where I wanted to control everything. Uh, it's just something that I, I always had the gift of being able to do this last one after the two ACL reconstructive surgeries coming back, and then tearing my quad after that, I said, like, I don't know what else you want me to do. I've gotten through two ACL reconstructions.

My higher power is God, so I'm praying at this point. I'm saying, I don't know what you want me to do. So you're talking to God, saying, what do I got to do? What do I got to do, man? I'm in this for reasons bigger than myself. I want to come back and show people that this can be done. I'm not the only one that can do this. Anybody can do this, right?

I'm here for you, bidding your will, God. This is my talking. And no answers, no nothing. And I said, maybe that's the answer. I remember thinking, maybe that's the answer. I remember thinking maybe that's the answer is just you might not ever fight again. Are you okay with that? And that was something that I never allowed my brain to even go to ever until all these injuries hit me. And I would have never been able to unless I went through all that.

And that was literally all the stuff because I'm so stubborn and so just tough that I had to go through all that just to mentally say, okay, you might never do this again. It could have been after the first one I could have done that, but I didn't. When I did that, my health skyrocketed immediately. I started, I just went to therapy every day knowing I was trying to get better, but I didn't care if I fought again or not. I focused all my energy in Fox and coaching the guys at Alliance Training Center to make them better and try to make the team better and feed off the thirst and the hunger that those guys had to be the champion that I still wanted to be. And I decided that if I focused on Fox, focused on the positive energy of these guys at the gym, kept training them, kept my mind in the sport, my body will be there because my age is compliant with my body still. I'm still young enough that I'll be okay. So I just needed to get my mind wrapped around the sport, stay in it mentally, but understand that if I never have it again, that's okay too. stay in it mentally but understand that if i never have it again that's okay too and when i did that it took away so much importance off of needing to fight as have the title as my

as the person that i was that it allowed me to open up and say if you never fight again you're still a great person you still did great things you still uh laid the tracks for the bantamweight division in a lot of ways um you did this that you had a great career dom like it's okay if this is it and i kept that mindset kept focusing on the things that i could control instead of the things that i couldn't like the fact that i wasn't competing yet and as i did that i got healthier and healthier came back fought Mizugaki. That set me up to fight Mizugaki. Then. Destroyed Mizugaki, one of your best performances ever. I felt great.

First round, destruction. That was the most at peace I've felt in a long time, walking into that fight. I remember interviewing you after the fight, and you were like, I don't even remember what happened. Yeah. You just went, like you went into a trance. It was weird. It was one of the weirdest performances of my whole career, easily. Because the walkout was weird. It was one of the weirdest performances of my whole career, easily, because the walkout was different. I had no connection. I had no connection to the win or the loss at that point. There was nothing. I was just there to enjoy being there again after three and a half years and all these injuries. Like, I can't believe I made it here. I'm not injured. And I remember thinking like, just you're in front of these people. Enjoy the limelight, man. Enjoy this ride. Like this is incredible. There's people that would

pay millions and trillions of dollars to get this walk you're about to get and go fight somebody in this octagon. Just enjoy it. Don't worry. Don't connect. And by letting go, man, by letting go of the injuries, by letting go of the wind, by letting go of the loss, by letting go of either mattered. I was in this, I was in my zone and it allowed me to just be free. And I was, that was the best performance of my career. But more than anything, it showed me a mental thing that I'd never opened up before. that I'd never opened up before. And it was letting go of the things that you can't control will give you actually more peace because it disconnects you from what happens. So you feel like that peace was a significant factor in your body recovering because the pressure

and the stress and the anxiety, all of that was playing, it was wrecking not just your mental state but also your physical state a hundred percent every piece of it that's really interesting every piece of it and that's the biggest thing I learned is that is like it wasn't my physical body it was my mind doing it to my physical body so it was initially a physical injury and then it was the cascade of psychological issues that came with the physical issue that led to more physical issues.

It was the cascade of trying to figure out why I was so sad with all these things that I earned around me. I already had everything that I thought. When you grow up in a trailer like I did and then you go to winning a GTR, the car you wanted since you were a kid in a prize fight and having a home that you bought with your own money that you never thought you'd be able to own a home in California. Cause you live in a damn trailer park in Tucson, Arizona. It kind of like,

um, makes you feel like, like that's it. You know, like you, you, you've done crazy great things. And those were all just dreams to me, and they happened so quick.

Like at 20, you know, I mean, I didn't get my house till later. But when I got those things, it's like I really – why are you so – I was still sad is my point. Like I was still – I had my depression that was hitting me. And that's so many people in this world are dealing with depression. Like it's a huge catastrophic problem across the planet. And, um, I definitely, it's in my, it's in my bloodline on both sides of my family. And it's something that everybody, not just myself deals with on a daily basis, I think in certain people's lives. And that hit me very hard.

And I didn't understand why it hit me so much harder now after I stopped competing. Like, why is it so much worse now? Well, the reason is my body was used to the active, the activity, just go, go, go. And what I realized is I turned off all my emotional, spiritual, and mental issues with exercise to where I never, ever, ever dealt with them ever. I only physically worked them out. So my physical was perfection. I was a, I'm a world champion, monster killer, whatever you want to call me in your own perspective mind. Right. But emotionally, physically, and spiritually, I was a cricket. And I never understood that until I was hurt, trapped in my own body like a prison

cell. Couldn't train, couldn't run, couldn't walk, couldn't bend my leg, laying on the couch, eating pain pills, realizing, man, unless you train, unless you compete, you hate yourself. You hate yourself. You hate yourself. You're a piece of shit in your own mind without those things, without the beautiful girlfriend, without the beautiful house, without the nice cars, without the big money to show people. You hate yourself. So what am I really doing? Why am I doing this? I lost sight that the whole reason we're fighting is it's a spiritual, emotional, physical, mental battle that helps you grow as an individual and as a human being. It's not just to have these things that you think will make you happy. You have to learn those things through

the process. And I didn't know that until I was trapped in my own body. And I literally felt like I was in a prison cell. And I knew that wasn't right. We shouldn't be in our own body alone without people around us to keep us company and, uh, on a couch feeling like we're in a prison cell. Should we? No, definitely not. No, we shouldn't. But I did for three years. So how did you get yourself out of it by just accepting it? And you, you must, there must've been some sort of a mechanism that you used. I have that i talk to professionals um obviously like sports psychologists well sports psychologists and then you got to get a psychologist in general to deal with the depression whatever when you hit your lows like it's okay to to get you know if you're bench

pressing 350 pounds it's okay to have a little, it's okay to have a little touch. It's okay to have a little spot here and there, you know? And then after you get a couple spots, now after a while, you can do it yourself. You don't need the spot anymore. That's how I look at psychiatric help to an extent for some people, especially if they're battling depression. Sometimes you just need a floaty and then you can take the floaties off after a year. You see what I'm saying? It's a mental, it's a mental floaty and it's okay. Cause we all hit low parts, low points in our life where it's unbearable and you either allow

it to continue to be unbearable and just deny it. Or you deal with the task at hand and say, I'm a little low right now. I need the floaties. It's okay. I'll get through this. And then when you take the floaties off, you realize I only needed them for a little bit of time and now I'm okay. I'm here. And that's kind of what it felt like. It's like I just needed a little bit of a push. I needed to get through this and learn some things about my own mind and understand my own emotions. And understand that I didn't need all these things that I was thinking weren't real. It was me not being in control of my own emotions.

Your own emotions are your choice. And I chose to feel trapped. I are your choice. And I chose to feel trapped. I chose to be sad. I chose to feel like I was jack shit. I chose all these things. And it's like, you don't need fighting to be these things. You need to, you need to let go of fighting to learn that you are something without it. And that was actually a gift. It became a gift because I learned so much in life now, bigger than fighting. I look at the things that I went through as a gift because I learned so much in life now, bigger than fighting. I look at the things that I went through as a gift because I have gotten the gift of feeling retired during my career. Who else gets that?

Some people retire for five years, lose their freaking mind, end up in the bar and come back and try to fight again 10 years later. With a weakened body. A mess. From abuse. Why? Why though? Why are they doing that? They're not doing it because they're physically capable.

They're doing it because they never dealt with their life away from fighting. Fighting was their life. Fighting is who they are. Fighting is their persona. So take away fighting. What are they? They're in the bar drinking away what they're not. Instead of drinking, putting the booze down and knowing what you are without fighting, being happy with that chapter

of your life and being able to live who you are. I've gotten to feel that. And now I can fight with a peace of mind, knowing how good I am without fighting and how great I am with it too. and how great I am with it too. And that's what this thing's about. All these fights, me attacking those challenges, coming back and winning and getting my belt back, that could only happen because I let go of control, the things I couldn't control.

So you come back, you fight Mitsugaki, you put on the performance of your career, just destroy him. It was just a whirlwind, wild, crazy first round stoppage. Then what happens? Well, that was a big deal for me because he'd never been stopped like that before, Mitsugaki, at this point. At this point, he was on a five fight win streak. He hadn't lost since the whole time I had been hurt. And he was beating the top guys. So to beat him was going to tell me, you're good enough.

Let's go for the title. And I beat him, and I said, okay, here I am. Let's go for that title. And at this point, if you remember, it was Burrell was the next coming to Christ. And then TJ beat the brakes off of him. And now TJ is the next coming to Christ. He's a better brakes off of him and now TJ's the next coming to Christ he's a better version of me he's this he's that and so I said yeah I can beat him I knew I could I've been watching him on on film and for Fox and breaking down his fights and I knew I could beat Burrell I knew both those guys couldn't beat me at that point but it didn't

matter what I thought I had to prove it and nobody's gonna believe you after four injuries the way i had them so i just had to go do it i blew my knee out training one month after i fought takaya mizugaki now this is what's interesting about the story is i did research later i'm now basically a doctor to figure all this stuff out because all the injuries i've been through. But three weeks before I fought Mizugaki, I had a staph infection on my right thumb that popped up. So I took a antibiotic called Cipro. I think it's with a C-I-P-P-R-O. Now, me trusting the doctors and me not, it's my own fault, not the doctor's fault. I should have read what was the hazards of the antibiotic, but you kind of trust the doctors and assume why would

it give me something bad, right? Well, Cipro has an after effect for six months after you ingest it, that it weakens your tendons. So it makes them soft, like real real putty and so i took it three weeks before the fight that made it about two months after i ingested the the cipro i was throwing a left high kick i'd never had a right a problem with my right knee my entire life ever and it just popped throwing a right high kick i pivot on my right leg to throw the left one up high and the it just popped and i knew right away obviously because i've done two done it twice that i blew it out and i remember literally blowing it out sitting on the floor the guy that i was drilling with is like what's up and i was like my knee i just blew my knee out and he's like what you just you nothing happened like

it was crazy it was crazy it, it was a weird feeling. And what was even weirder was the piece I had sitting there, not even caring. I literally was just, I remember blowing it out and sitting on the ring. Like I told her, I said, Eric, come here. And I told him to come over. And I was like, you ready for another nine month ACL reconstructive surgery? And he's like, what? for another nine-month ACL reconstructive surgery? And he's like, what? He's like, what are you talking about? Your knee's fine.

I'm like, no, I blew it out right now. He's like, no, you didn't. I said, yes, I did. And that was it. And so I start again. Wow. Start again. So I started the rehab again. Same style of reconstruction?

Well, this time's better because I had the first two practice tries. And now I had the secret link. What's the secret link that I didn't know for the first three injuries that I had was letting go of control. This was the, this was my diamond. This was to, now I had a way to prove that I was onto something in my own mind and I did it and I was onto something and I know it now and nobody can ever tell me anything different. It was, it was just, I stopped right then and there. The day I blew my knee out, I didn't train again for nine months other than physical therapy. I didn't, I didn't shadow box. I didn't do a pushup. I didn't do a sit up. I didn't do a squat. I didn't, I went in the gym occasionally, but because I had learned to let go of fighting

from the first two injuries, I didn't go in there panicking trying to keep training because I needed it for my health anymore. I already learned that the way I find health is to not train, let my body completely heal, don't do anything, and focus on my mind. So I spent another nine months focusing on nothing but my mind. And my tactic was your body's not working right now. So you got to switch it over to the next weapon that you have, which is your mind. Your mind is the only other weapon you use besides your body on fight night. So if your body's not working, switch it over. So I just focused on my mind and by focusing on my mind i'm talking i started looking up guys like wayne dyer um i started talking to a guy named mark michael lardon uh michael t lardon dr mark michael t

lardon i started putting in place specific uh go-to people for my for my uh to talk to that i looked up to uh power people i guess you'd put them right i'm sure you have some too and i focused on nothing but my mind i didn't train at all and um i remember i got a call i was out at the lake in arizona i literally hit the nine month mark on this weekend i get a call from shelby the nine month mark they knew my knee was gonna to be healthy. And he goes, you're healthy, right? And I was like, well, I've done nothing but rehab and it's been nine months. So technically I'm cleared by the doctor. They know I'm cleared by the doctor because the UFC talks with the doctors 24 seven, whether they admitted or not. So it's like,

even if the doctor shouldn't tell the UFC, they're telling them everything. So they know exactly where I'm at in rehab, exactly where I'm at in therapy to the T and that's why they know when to call me and put the heat on me so i'm out on the boat drinking some beers trying to enjoy my life and i get a call uh we can get you we want to give you a title fight with tj dill shot in the beginning of the year whatever at that point i had 12 weeks when they called me to get ready for the fight so three months but zero training for nine months correct wow after the mizugaki fight that's that's insane just to be able to get yourself into five round performance correct correct and and this is i mean

you're hearing a story right now i haven't told anybody because um i don't sit down and talk for two hours to anybody about this stuff so it's like who would i who am i going to go on an interview with and talk about this stuff pretty much you're the only guy who gets into this weird stuff so here we are and uh it comes down to that like yeah i was on zero and i said again because of what I learned with the Mizugaki thing, letting go, I just kept exercising that. Because what's going to happen is going to happen. It's out of my control. God's got his plan for me. He took me this far in my mind.

That's my higher power. And remember, if you're listening and your higher power is not God, it can be whatever you want it to be for your higher power. It's a matter of just letting go. It's a matter of just letting go and understanding that there's something in effect that's bigger than you here in the universe. And as soon as you can do that, you're going to be who you're going to be. And then when you are who you are because you're not worried about all these other things connected to it, you're your fullest self. these other things connected to it you get you're your fullest self and in being that it allowed me to get ready for tj because i wasn't thinking about he's been fighting you haven't he's been this you haven't that um none of that matter it wasn't relevant because i was fighting him no

matter what so i just let go and said get in the tip-top shape you can with the tools you have and let's go fight him you know you have the skill set. You know you have the knowledge and the movement, and you're young enough, and your body's working. You just proved that with Mizugaki. So you just got to get in shape, and you're fine. And that was literally my mindset. Well, at the eight-week mark, so at 12 weeks, I start training. 12 weeks out.

12 weeks i start training so that's 12 weeks out 12 weeks out i start i stopped just physical therapy which i was doing three times a week only and i go to fight training i start my my just my regimen what i do for each camp in doing that going from off the couch doing nothing straight into a five-round title fight um i learned that's that actually sparked what i had now have which is plantar fascia tendonitis in my both my feet and so it's because going from resting for a year whatever three years and then going full bore on your feet it tore all the fascia on the bottom of my feet because they weren't ready for the force that i was putting on them with my footwork and my movement and my sparring and my

kickboxing and all that. It wasn't ready. So I tore all the fascia on the bottom of my feet. So I started feeling something weird on the bottom of my left foot in that camp. Simultaneously at the, at the eight week mark, after I'd been training for 12, what, four weeks, I'd been training for the TJ Dillashaw camp. I broke my rib. So I get kicked in my rib. My body's just soft. I hadn't been getting kicked or punched in over three and a half years now because if you think about it, Mizugaki fight doesn't even count.

Right. It was so fast, and he didn't even hit you. He didn't hit me. He hit me one time, and it was just under a minute-long fight. And so the only wear and tear and and callous for lack of a better term i have on my body is from the training camp before mizugaki which was only a three round camp so i have no wear and tear on my body no toughness i get kicked to my rib breaks my rib i lose right then and I can't wrestle anymore, and I can't spar anymore.

So now I'm at eight weeks out of the fight, and they take away my sparring, and they take away my wrestling because I can't go live. So I'm just drilling kickboxing now, pad work with Coach Eric Del Fiero, Miguel Reyes, and grappling drills. So you're taping up your rib? No, I get this big thing that goes over the top. It's like this weird protector and I wear that.

Is it a protector against impact or a protector is it actually like a cast that holds your ribs in place? No, it was like I had to look it up online myself for some makeshift thing that would work and this thing worked the best. I forget what it's called. I could text it to you and I'd figure it out. Picture what the what the coaches wear when they wear that body plate you can punch in the body and it goes all the way up to here

do you know what i'm talking about yeah sure it's like one of those but it's a little smaller and it just goes here and then you uh you put it on like a shirt and it like crosses and the cables cross cross in the back and then the whole front is kind of like squishy but protecting you from squeezing and blunt force but i wasn't taking any anyways i was just wearing that for when i would drill okay i wasn't going live yet right so then i finally start panicking when i can't i can't uh spar or wrestle live after four weeks with the busted rib. I was like, oh, it'll go away. It just wasn't going away.

It was just killing me. I couldn't even breathe, man. I couldn't sneeze. I couldn't cough. It was horrible. So I just said, I got to shoot it with cortisone and see if that helps. So I go in, see the doctor. They shoot it with cortisone.

Thank God it works. It numbed it. Within three days, I'm moving again. I'm good. So the reason I didn't shoot it right away is because you want to give it as much time as you can to heal before you shoot it to see if you can minimize the damage that you do with the cortisone. Does that make sense? That's why I didn't do it right off the bat. Cortisone does damage? It breaks down tissue, like muscle and tendon tissue. If you overdo it, you can do within three in one injected area, but you don't it you can do within three in one injected area

but you don't want to do more than three in one area depending on where you're at this is my first one in this particular rib i mean i've had them all over my body but this and this rib when that kicks in i'm like sweet i can spar and i can wrestle now i just got to wear that thing so the whole camp i'm wearing this thing and I can't do any core workout. I can't do any strength and conditioning at all because we had to ditch those two things in order to focus on cardio and skill. Because we had to get my cardio and skill back and my timing and my reads back more than I needed strength and conditioning. So because I'm coming back from so much, you actually have to just cut out what's not needed in the camps that you've had in the past and take what you can use. So what are you doing for cardio at this point?

I'm makeshifting. I have a sprint routine that I run that's solely mine that I got from a guy named Drew Fickett way back in the day. Oh, I know Drew. Oh, yeah. He was my first MMA coach. Tough dude. He's a nasty, crazy, dirty, filthy son of of a gun i'll just leave it at that him and don fry i started out with let's put it that way those were my two mma first mma coaches

wow just to give you an idea of when i started and they weren't even my coaches because if you know them they don't coach anybody they just yell at you slurs and then maybe put you to sleep a couple times and don fry throws head kicks when you're only supposed to be boxing. So it's like, they're not real coaches. They're just showing you how to be a maniac. But anyways, he shows me this sprint routine. Which I still use to this day. So, Drew Fickett's the man.

But you're still dealing with plantar fasciitis. Now, well then, it starts kicking in. Because of the sprinting as well. Because of the sprinting, the footwork, everything else coming from nothing. But it's only in my left foot. So I think I kicked an elbow. I don't know. I haven't yet. So I don't go get an MRI.

I don't check anything. I just ignore it because I'm fighting either way. I don't want to know. Sometimes it's just better not knowing, you know, especially if you're going to fight whether it's hurt or not. So I just said, screw it. I didn't shoot it up with cortisone or nothing i just ignored it kept running super painful if you've ever had it

plantar fasciitis it's debilitating to an extent but um you know thank god it was only in one foot and then i go into that fight with about i had about a good solid four week camp of sparring and wrestling thank god of live stuff. But other than that, the first 12 weeks was basically just getting into shape. So my whole camp was comprised of mostly sprints, pad work, and about a month of sparring. And I lost almost all rounds coming back because I was just so off from the year and not doing anything in my body, not being strong and trying to get back in shape. And it was tough. It was by far, that camp was the worst put together, most off and

horrible camp I've had in my whole 24 fights by far. But you won the title. And I, yeah, some think the good Lord above, I won that title. That's how I, that's, that's, it didn't really make sense, but it happened. And we didn't know that you had plantar fasciitis. So when you kept getting hit by leg kicks and your leg was giving out, I was thinking that your leg was giving out from the impact. And I know, and I don't take, you know, it's hard as a, especially I do it with you, color now. It's hard, man. This thing's hard. Somebody's going to get mad no matter what you do, no matter what you say eventually.

And it's like, how are you supposed to know my foot's blown out before I get in there? Well, now I saw you in the Uriah Faber fight, which happened after that. And then I noticed your foot was taped up. Both. Yes. It went into the other foot. So it went to the other foot as well. And then the Cody fight, it multiplied by two in both feet.

So instead of just having it in one for TJ, I get through. Then I have it in both. It just started in my other foot for Faber. And then by the Cody fight, it's been out of control. I'd done three camps, and I'd done a year work after that, after that year off. And what can you do to heal it? No excuses. I want to go ahead and make this, this point right now. There's no excuses for that. Um, I did pretty good at wrapping it. I shot Botox in the bottom of both my feet. Botox? It was the worst thing I've ever gone through. Why does Botox, what does that do for you? Well,

the idea with Botox is it was, it wasthe-wall method because there's no cure for plantar fascia tendonitis. So you just improvised this? Yes, because I was, well, I heard it from other doctors. It's an underground method. It's like I was just willing to do anything, Joe. Like I was in so much pain, dude. I couldn't, I'd wake up in the morning and I'd have to go on my hands and knees to the bathtub so I wouldn't put weight on my feet. I'm not kidding.

So I wouldn't put weight on my feet. This is during fight camp? Oh yeah. So I wouldn't put weight on my feet because they're too cold. So it's like needles, you know? So you have to warm them up first so that the fasciitis doesn't get worse. So I fill up a tub with hot water and Epsom salt. And then I fill that up. I have to fill that up by going on my hands and knees. Cause you don't want to put weight on it early. This is a method I heard from a runner that he used in order to heal his. And so I tried it for about a month. I was going, uh, I would fill it up and then I soak my feet every morning. Then after I soak them, I have a tape routine that I have on both of my feet. I tape both my feet. Like you would picture taping your hands. And then I wear my shoes and I warm up my feet before I get there at the gym and then I'd go.

But that was for all three of the fights this last year. I've had to deal with that. And I actually did a really good job minimizing the pain. And the Botox, first I shot cortisone in them and that didn't help. It numbed it a little bit, but it didn't help. I shot it after when I fought TJ and I was getting kicked in the leg, like you say, and I was, that was my foot being tore. Like the fascia actually completely tore off the heel in that fight. That hurt. That I felt, I've never felt anything really in a fight that I felt when it popped. And that's how I knew. I was like, I said, I was like, I think my foot's torn in half or something because it just, I felt it when it,

when it popped open in that fifth round and I had about four minutes left around. I remember like, Oh shit, you better, you better figure something out. And then, you know,

you could tell I was staying a little bit more stationary, I think. And that's why the kick started to land. But, um, so it goes, man, we're in the fight business.

All of us go in there with injuries. I'm not making excuses, but people want to know, you know, injuries, we all go in there injured. I'm not, like, almost all of us do something. And a lot of high-level, like, marathon runners deal with this foot problem that I have, and they run marathons with it. So it can be done, but it's just an extra hindrance. It's very difficult. And going barefoot with it is the hardest part. That's true, right?

Because at least marathon runners can wear shoes. And that helps because I have orthotics and there's supports you can put that keep the support. But I have a high arch. And so what that means is the arch, there's a fascia that holds everything in place and the arch starts to fail. And that's what that needle feeling is. It's like it's the fascia on the bottom of your foot. Because'm always on my toes it just it wasn't ready for the brunt from zero to hero right and it kind of put a bunch of lesions in it and now how do you heal those now can you tape it with an orthotic underneath no because i mean then you have orthotics stuck to the bottom of

your feet while you're hopping around you basically in just... But in training, can you do that? I just tape my... Well, I wear my wrestling shoes and I tape my feet. Tape my feet and wear wrestling shoes with my supports in there. And what methods of healing can they sort of use? There isn't any. Nothing? This is why I use Botox. Stem cells? I was actually thinking of getting some stem cells

put in my elbows and my shoulders and my knees coming up. But for my feet, PRP and stem cell is all just, it's all just, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Anything you look at, if you Google plantar fasciitis, they have no cure for it. It's a worldwide problem that there's no cure for. Where are you going to get the stem cell stuff done? Well, I've only talked to people about it, but I'd be more than happy to get with you on it. I'm sure you have some hookups because I need the best in the world, obviously. There's a guy in Vegas, Dr. Roddy McGee.

He's the best. He's worked with a lot of UFC fighters. Daniel told me he's worked with people before. Cormier? Yeah. Cormier's guy does – well, there's a bunch of different ways to do it. Cormier's guy went into his hip and they pulled bone marrow out of his hip and they, it's super painful. And then they get your own stem cells from that. The way the guy in Vegas does it, they're, they're taking the stem cells. When a woman has a cesarean section,

when she gives birth through cesarean section, they take away the placenta. They usually just throw it out, but they can take that placenta and extract stem cells from it i'd rather have that than some of dc's bone you don't want them digging in your bone it's super painful on your hip too yeah he was talking about how he was limping for a couple weeks he's big bone though yeah he's a big fella dc's he's you know it's interesting like somebody said to me once that DC should be fighting middleweight. I'm like, go stand next to him and say that. His core is like this thick. Yeah, he's a tank.

He's a big dude. Yeah, he might only be 5'10". Well, they say that because he's a little chubby, but he's stronger than anybody can imagine. You don't pick up Dan Henderson. How about Josh Barnett? Remember when he was fighting heavyweight in Strikeforce? He picked up Josh Barnett like he was a pillow and slammed him on the ground.

That's what I mean. The guy blows my mind how good he is. And I don't think people give him enough credit. I know DC on a training level. When I watch him train on a personal level, I mean, he's DC. He's crazy. He's always talking out of his butt, you know, to an extent.

It's hilarious. But he's a beast, man. You've got to respect that. Yeah, I love that guy. Me too. He's a great guy. He's in the era of Jon Jones, you know,

and he lost to Jon in his first fight, and he's also dealing with the fact that Jon, although I love Jon too, Jon's a fuck-up, you know? And so he's got to sort of be there while Jon keeps fucking up. And then a lot of it comes back to him. But that's where I look at DC and why I try to give him all the respect in the world I can, because I don't feel that people give enough respect to DC for the fact that he's not fucking. Right. No, he's a great guy.

Like how come you don't, how does that get overlooked? Well, I think a lot of it has to do with people can connect to fuck ups. Yeah. Too. There's that. You know, I mean, and, and John Jones is that good. Yeah. That's the other thing. He's literally that good.

He's that good. He could beat you after he did coke three weeks ago. I don't know what to say about that. That's the thing about John. I'm good enough to win after three surgeries, you know, so let's see. We can, we can test the waters on both. Let's see who does what. I'll do a line of coke next time and then try to jump in there and see how I do.

And let's blow his knees out three times and then we'll see who's better. Well, that's a different animal. You know, I mean, it's interesting that sometimes people are just supremely talented physically and they don't have to deal with as many trials and tribulations in that regard. You know, he's very gifted. Like, John, like. It's interesting. I've always said this. There's a way that Jon gets a hold of people

that you could almost tell when he gets a hold of them that they really have never felt anything like that before. And you saw it with DC. DC, who's a supremely talented wrestler, one of the best wrestlers to ever compete in MMA. Jon Jones got a hold of him, and you could see DC was like, oh, shit. Like, this guy is no joke. I agree.

I mean. Jon's a stud. Yeah. He's a fucking stud. He's that good. He's that good. He's that good. So is DC, though.

DC could still beat him. I really believe that. It's entirely possible if I had to choose I would probably if I had to choose on paper you'd take Jones

depending on how healthy he is well DC was so furious that he didn't fight him in the Ovin St. Preux fight because he was like I would have beat that John Jones

because I did commentary with him in that fight he was like I would have beat that John Jones and here's another thing on that okay

because how's that that might not be true either right because that John Jones would have trained differently for you the of course for Joe ovens of course yeah and who know and he the ovens a crew was a very late replacement don't forget this though I mean yeah how much does he hate DC he's not gonna let oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah different level of training you're doing for different people where where your emotions are with that human being. That's a really good point. It is. But don't you think

that was a big factor in the first fight as well? Because DC was very emotionally wrapped up in fighting John. It was very intense because he had never had anybody disrespect him like that. They had that fist fight at the press conference. That definitely had to do with it. Sure. Of course. That has to do with every fight. It has to do with my fights. It has to do with all of them. You have

to calculate. It had to do with Conor McGregor fights. Ronda Rousey's fights, Anderson Silva's fights when he's shellboating. Everything. I mean, you can go, the list goes on of the mental problems that a lot of these athletes have had. And usually if the mental isn't there, they lose. It comes down to that. And you also got to go back to the way Daniel Cormier handled rumble. He's the only guy that's been able to eat rumble shots, absorb them, and come back and break them. You know, that was, I mean. Yeah, he ate that right hand and just hit his head on the floor,

woke back up, and then went after it. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's respectable, too, that I don't think fans or anybody can really understand what it takes to get slightly knocked out, stand back up and want to keep going yeah that's a different level of understanding of this sport like as an athlete when i watch a fighter go through that and keep their composure move around and deal with that

problem and then even if they lose but stay in the fight and go the distance and tough it out like diego sanchez is a great example of that yeah it's like how do you not respect and have a a real logical understanding that human being is built from something different yeah yeah that's insane you just there's fighters that come back and there's fighters that almost never come back it's really interesting like we were talking about like BJ Penn one of the all-time greats I can't remember a fight where BJ was losing where he came back and won Frankie Edgar on the other hand you can never count that motherfucker out ever true Frankie Edgar in the Gray Maynard fights there's two those two chaotic fights was so close to being stopped in the first round where Gray Maynard is putting it on him and

Frankie's going down and down again and stumbling around the octagon and Gray keeps catching him and Frankie goes on to stop him. I mean, that was insane. Those two fights were insane. And he should go down as one of the best ever for that fight. You know what I mean? It's like stuff like that. I agree. For both of those fights.

Yeah. The one where they won to a draw and then the other one when he beat him. And it's true. Yeah. You gotta, it's hard though because there's so many crazy fights that you can give credit to everybody. Yeah. And it's like, how do you really dictate who gets what, where? Right.

Yeah. Because we're all putting our life out there on the line, too. So every single one of these is just as serious as the next. And every single one of us is sacrificed just as much as the next. So at what point do you really start drawing the line as to who is the best and who is it i think it has to come down to who stays the best the longest yeah no i agree with you how else do you really that's why i put fedor over kane as the best heavyweight of all time although i still think i maintain that kane when he was at his best it was far as like what i see him what he was able to do to guys,

and what I see from his performance inside the octagon, especially his cardio as a heavyweight, his clean technique, his wrestling, the pace he puts on guys, his chin, I don't think there's been ever anybody like Kane. I think Kane, when he was at his prime, was the best I've ever seen.

I never got to see Fedor fight live, but I would say if you have to give an all-time great to a heavyweight, I kind of lean towards Fedor because he stayed on top longer, beat more guys longer. Who did he beat compared to Kane? Noguera in his prime, Krokop in

his prime, you know, fought some freaks like Semmy Schilt, took him down. Yeah, and that was in the early days. Yeah, the early days. When, like, it was still very limited knowledge. And it was wild rules as far as supplements go. Pow, pow, pow. Take whatever you want, motherfucker. Let's get this party going.

Let's see if we can get you bigger than Joe Rogan. Everybody's bigger than me, man. I'm tiny compared to Cro Cop at 42. Okay, bigger than Lorenzo and him. To Lorenzo's a gorilla. Yeah, yote. Cro Cop just won the Rising Grand Prix. I mean, he's a shell of himself in the UFC under USADA testing. They send him off to Japan, and all of a sudden he's Super Crow Cop again.

Looked sensational. I didn't see that. Oh, he looked fantastic. Missed that one. Kickboxing looked fantastic. Well, he went and did some kickboxing, looked really good in kickboxing again, and then fought in Rising and won their heavyweight Grand Prix. I mean, he looked extraordinary. He looked like the heavyweight Grand Prix. He looked extraordinary. He looked

like the crow cop of old. He really did. He really turned back the clock. And then he decided, I'm good. I'm done. I ended my career with an amazing high note. That's awesome. And very rare do people come back and do that. Yeah. You need a little help.

You need a little help from Dr. Mexican Supplements. Well, I mean, what did Ricky Bobby say at best? What did he say? You ain't cheating, you ain't trying. Is that what he said? I thought it was you ain't first, you're last. Maybe it's both, or maybe I stole that from a different movie.

If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying, that's like real old, right? Isn't that? Yeah, maybe that was somebody else. Maybe it was just, I don't know. Yeah, no. Some old guy yelling at me. I mean, there's that,

but that you always have to have that asterisk next pride that there was no drug testing. And I've had Ensign anyway, here on a couple of times where Ensign was talking about it. They're in the contracts. It said in capital letters, we will not test you for steroids. And Ensign was laughing about it.

He's like, what the fuck? Like, is this what I'm fighting? No, they were just just telling you like we want to have some fun yeah but i remember even because i was part of the sport in the era and i'm so glad i really am so glad i was part of the sport during that time and i was just coming up and i was like maybe two three and oh at this point when i can specifically remember a time having to make a decision at 21 years old. Do I want to be in the IFL? Do I want to go try out for the ultimate fighter?

Or do I just keep working my three jobs, coaching wrestling, doing what I'm doing here in Tucson as a janitor, stay with my money and just be patient and keep winning fights until I get there. And I was 20 years old. there. And, uh, I was 20 years old. They were offering me $2,000 a month to, to fight in the IFL with the Sabres, which was, um, this was, you know, forever ago and $2,000 a month for me would have changed my life. I'm 20 years old. I'm living paycheck to paycheck and I'm doing all these jobs. I can quit all my jobs and focus on training 24 seven. That's my mindset with $2,000 a month. Heck yeah, I can do that. That's the way to go. But wait a second. There is no 135 pound weight class.

There's no 145 pound weight class. It's only one 55 and up. So I'm already eating as much as I can trying to put weight on to get into the weight class to fight at 155 pounds. What do you walk around at? Right now? Now I'm walking around 55, 60. But then at 20 years old, 42, you know, 142 pounds, trying to eat everything I can in sight. And between that and 50, you know, 150. So I said, you're too small for that, I felt.

If they lock you into that contract for two grand a month, they're going to throw you I said, you're too small for that. I felt if they lock you into that contract for two grand a month, they're going to throw you out there. You're going to lose twice. They're going to cut you. And then you didn't get any money and you lost. Now you got two losses on your record because these guys are monsters. And how do you come back from that? So I said, all right, I'm going to say no to that. I felt I'm going to go try out for the ultimate fighter, try it out for the ultimate Fighter. Didn't get in. Lost that opportunity. So then I just kept training, and that's when I got my first fight at 6-0.

I was 5-0. Got an offer on two days' notice to go fight in Total Combat, which is now my coach Eric DelFerro's promotion back then. He was a promoter. And I took the fight, fought it, and then I met Eric. And that was the beginning of that. Wow. So you were living in Arizona at the time, and that's how you moved met Eric, and that was the beginning of that. Wow. So you were living in Arizona at the time,

and that's how you moved down to San Diego? Tucson, yeah, Tucson, Arizona. I was raised there from 2 years old until I was 21 until I moved to San Diego and fought Faber. Faber fight in 2007 was the first camp I ever had a coach. Never had a coach before that point. I'd never been to vegas i just legally able to go there uh there's a lot of things i'd never gotten to do that i it was incredible to get to do that back then first fight ever on television in the wc it was the wc

i got to fight in front of chuckle down tito ortiz in the in the in the uh audience wow weird things like that that I remember that was like, what am I doing here type of thing. What am I doing here? I made it. Yeah. And the game, just to be part of the game at that point, Diego Sanchez is the man at 185 pounds

like get to train with. That was Ultimate Fighter Season 1 when he won the Ultimate Fighter. And those are the guys I'm watching saying, I'm going to do this. Wow. So when you tried out for the Ultimate Fighter, 1 when he won the Ultimate Fighter. And those are the guys I'm watching saying, I'm going to do this. Wow. So when you tried out for the Ultimate Fighter, what season was it? I think it was like two or three times.

Wow. So you were trying at 55 then? I was. Wow. Yeah. And I have three fights at 55. I have three fights at 45, if I remember right, also. Wow.

So at the time when this was going on, 2005 when you started out was right when Stephen Bonner and Forrest Griffin had that epic fight in the finals of The Ultimate Fighter season one and it launched MMA. Yep. And that's what made me decide.

And that's when I'm going to school. You see? So I'm like, all right, this thing is, this is the time. If you're going to do it, get in now and just see what you can do with it. Go all in. I'm like, you might make it or keep going to school. Go get you.

I wanted to be an EMT firefighter. That was the goal. And it was like, you know, what do I do? Do I, I have so much stability. I got three jobs. I got money coming in. I'm comfortable. I'm going to school.

I'm doing the picture. Perfect. 20, 19, 20 year old vision for a kid who wants to be something right. Going to school, working. I threw it all away and just said, screw it. And it was nerve wracking. But like I said, I didn't do it until I asked my mom. My mom didn't even, the fact that she didn't even like think about it. Like I didn't think about it. Wow. I didn't even think about it. I just quit my jobs, packed all my shit up in an eclipse. My car couldn't make it to California. So I had to have my friend's truck tow it on a trailer. Whoa.

With everything I owned in the car. And then we drove in the truck. So my truck basically became a shed for everything I owned. Or my car did. My car became a shed for everything I owned. Or my car did. My car became a shed for everything I owned, you know? Wow. But so many stories like that. Come on.

I mean, how many MMA fighters have that story? A ton. Well, what is interesting to go back to your style, your very unique style, is that you really did come along when the sport was in its, I wouldn't say its infancy, but it was like a teenager at the time. The sport was really only 12 13 years old and I'm so glad I got in it then because that exact fact what you just mentioned is why I knew I could do something different that's why because it was growing and there was so much room it was too new yeah I could do things nobody had ever seen and it wasn't wrong anymore right because this is new right and if you say I'm wrong I you. I'm going to do it my way because this is new. Right.

There wasn't an established orthodox, like a, you know, Bernard Hopkins style. There was though. And I got ridiculed my whole career. Was there like in the household? What were they saying to you? You're not supposed to do that. You're boxing. You're not supposed to do that.

You're kickboxing. You're not supposed to do that. You're wrestling. But I'm not doing any of those things. I'm doing them all mixed together. Right. So how are you telling me I'm doing something wrong right now? Well, one of the things you said about you, I've said, if you watch Dominic Cruz fight, I would tell you, don't fight like that.

But look how goddamn good he is at it. So you can't say don't fight like that. Because he's not just like, the way you throw punches, the way you move and throw punches and throw punches from odd angles. The way you throw punches, the way you move and throw punches and throw punches from odd angles, you could tell someone, if someone was like a very traditional technical coach, you would say that is the wrong way to throw punches. Right. But I would say no, because look, he's fucking landing them.

Yeah. And they're hurting the guy, and he uses them a lot, and he's very effective with it. That will always be my argument with every conventional coach, and this is why. I break what makes them relevant. Well, and this is why i break what makes them relevant well it's not necessarily you break what makes them relevant you figure out a way to make your style work in a way that confounds the experts well what i mean by that is when they talk to me so like maybe not to 20 million other people they are the shit right but when you try to tell me that and you i've had i can't tell you how many countless world champion kickboxing coaches go only you can do that you're

awesome keep doing it and i and i couldn't disagree more well anybody can do it if they mimic your movements and your movements aren't like cirque de soleil movements that you have to be like physically gifted in order to pull off or i'm not gonna work towards them for a hundred years yeah i'm not gonna sit here and break it down, but there are obviously movements that I'm doing, and they can be read. It took 30 rounds to figure out with the same camp for 10 years, but they figured it out. Right.

They can imitate you. You ever see Justin Buchholz do you? He does you pretty well. They know what they're doing, but who else has fought somebody as much as they've fought me? I mean, think about it. Benavidez twice, Faber twice, T.J. Dillashaw, Charlie Valencia has fought somebody as much as they fought me i mean think about it benavidez twice faber twice tj dillashaw charlie valencia has fought with them scott jorgensen trained with them before i fought him um ian mccall trained with them for a tiny bit of time

before i fought him um essentially every single person i've ever fought for the past 10 years has at some point been friends with faber trained with that camp because they were the little guy camp. Well, I said, why join him if you can beat him? And I just did it my own way and let them all hate me and train together. And it was okay with me. I needed to do things my way in order to build something different in a game that hadn't really caught up to the things that I was thinking about yet, in my opinion. It didn't make me the only one that was right in these things. It was just how I used the things that I used. They had theirs too.

But my whole mindset was, like I said, if I fight like them, I'm going to be like them, and they're going to adjust to me like they adjust to everybody else. Now, going back to the early days when you sort of learned the style, we kind of got off this, but I really wanted to touch back on it. When you said that your style, no one had your style before. No one could tell you that it was the wrong way to do it because you were being very effective with it. But did you take it from anywhere? Did you look at boxing footage?

Did you look at kickboxing or Muay Thai? Like, where did you get all your footwork from? Well, there's a mixture of things. One, it all started with me fighting at 155 pounds, weighing 142 pounds. That's where this whole mindset started. So it was, they're already twice as big as you. And on fight day, they're going to be three times as big as you. So you better not get touched. You better not get grabbed and you better not get hit at all. Don't let them touch you because they're too big. If they take you down, your energy is going to be zapped by the time you do get up, if you get up. And if they hit you, they're big and strong and they're probably going to put you out. So you have to use all that

strength, all that size against them and make it their weakness instead of their strength. And that's how I started because I was so little that I said, all right, I need to focus on defense. Obviously I've got to hurt them too, but after they do what they're trying to do with their big strength and be stronger and be more powerful and be more athletic, they're going to wear themselves out. And now we're even, middle of round two,

all those things that they had early, we're even now. And now I can just outthink them and pick them apart and beat them. All those things that they had early were even now. And now I can just outthink them and pick them apart and beat them. And I always had that mentality rather than fight fire with fire. It just didn't make sense to me when my body was on the line. I wanted the path of least resistance. And so it started with that until I got to about 5-0, fought in total combat.

I took that fight on two days' notice, went out there with no coaches, no corner men and went by myself and they just picked corner men random corner men and put them in out there that night was why eric liked me because he saw you know i took it short notice won it it was a tough fight but i had no corner man i came solo on a flight and just went and so he's like okay i can work with this you know this guy wants to do it so he picked me up but then that's really when the progression started meeting all right like and that's because i'd never had i mean i had pads held for me here and there in tucson but only if guys were getting 65 bucks to do it or something for it because there's not a lot of money in fight game so they're all as hungry as i am the trainers and i wasn't really like some star pupil that everybody wanted to get on board and make a world champion at this point. I was just a guy.

Right. So I wasn't getting pad work. I wasn't getting one-on-one training. I lined up my own coaching. I'd have guys that knew what they were doing being pro boxers, pro high-level wrestlers, high-level blue belts at this time, and roll and wrestle and make my own team and my own coaches with the people that i had available but i didn't have a head and when i found eric at six and i won that fight found eric and he said i'll coach you i'll get you a manager and

i'll get all this figured out for you that's what i was really looking for that's why i went to california and got out of tucson because I knew I wasn't finding that in Tucson. When I went there and got that, it was like a gift. I was like, this is what I'm talking about. I knew if I went there and won with no one in my corner, somebody would want to pick me up. And they did. Eric did.

And we've stayed together ever since. So was your style something that you worked on with Eric, like learning those foot footwork drills like when when you came to him you essentially were a smaller guy who was fighting bigger guys and had to be a little trickier in your movement where were you getting that stuff from well now when i meet eric i'm no longer the smaller guy fighting bigger guys because well a little bit but 45 and 30 45 is now allowed now 145 pounds is just getting into these small shows, not just the WEC. So by the time I meet Eric at 6-0, I take that fight on two days' notice at 145 pounds.

But I was getting ready to fight at 155 in Colorado for a world title. But the whole show got canceled. That's why I was in shape to take the fight on two days' notice. So when I met Eric, the 45 pound weight class was there. 55, uh, was the one that was basking. So that's, that was how I got into the UFC. But your question exactly was what? Was how did you devise your movement? How did you devise your footwork? Did you study other stuff? Did you learn it with Eric? Did you guys put it together? Honestly, like

I had a couple things that I did naturally and then Eric has a skill set where he if you have a natural movement he doesn't tell you to fix it. He lets you do it and then turns it and has you add a weapon to it. That's his gift.

And I had a lot of those little weird, odd things that I did. And those weird, odd things you had just devised to learn how to get away from bigger people. Yeah, and it was a mixture of wrestling stance with punching and kicking. I kind of have a...

If you watch wrestling, there's no set stance. There's no set... You know what I mean? If you watch college, high school, like the highest level wrestlers, it's all fluent motion in both stances. So I made fighting that because I started out wrestling. And then I added the punches and the kicks to that motion. Instead of trying to change what I already did with my wrestling and try to make it this way,

he just let me do what I did up to 5-0 with my wrestling and whatever I taught myself. And then he just tightened it up and made it into a pro-level look to an extent. Speed, timing, range, these type of things. And now, do you have it now as a system? Do you have it organized? Do you have it written down? No, I have a system, but I'm a visual learner. So you could literally just do a movement in front of me and I'll learn it really quick. But if you write it or I have to read it, I'll never get it. It's, I'm all visual. So I just, there's certain things that I was running into when I would spar early on starting that I came up with habits to deal with because of my wrestling and not having a coach,

that instead of the coach saying, no, do this, I just adjusted and found my own answers. And do you keep a training log of all these lessons that you learned? No, I know them. They're just all in your mind? Yeah, I know them. I know them. I know them very well. I've studied it.

And you're just 100% confident that you'll keep that stuff in your memory? You don't need to write it down? No, I don't need to write it down because I drill it. Right. And once I have a memory, I don't just write it. I do it. I drill it. 100% confident that you'll keep that stuff in your memory? You don't need to write it down? No, I don't need to write it down because I drill it. And once I have a memory, I don't just write it. I do it. I drill it. I'll show Eric and I'll say, what do you think about this? And he'll be like, okay, well, I do this, this, and this to make it a little better and keep you da-da-da-da-da. And we go, okay. And then we use it. But I mean, I'm using, I'm not using the craziest moves in the world John Jones used crazy moves certain people like Stephen Thompson

has crazy moves you know what I mean? I'm actually using crazy movements to stay defensive and offensive simultaneously that's the idea to do both at the same time and to be very hard to read well you're hard to read if you're being offensive and defensive at the same time.

Yeah, it's hard to read because you don't know if I'm being offensive or defensive. It's one or the other or both. I can do both because where I put myself, I'm defensively in a, generally speaking, when I've been doing very well in my matchups, I put myself in the gray area where even if you do hit me, it's limited power. And I'm still able to hit you more than you're able to hit me, basically. That's the idea, generally. Here you are. You're coming off of the toughest loss of your career.

You lose to Cody Nolove in a very, very tough fight against a super talented guy. Yeah. How do you feel about that fight? and how do you feel right now? I feel good. I just want to heal up my body a little bit. That year, doing the three camps, coming back after the couch, it just was a hard year. It was a good year.

Because you weren't conditioned when you went full-blown to camp. When I first started, but that also affected my style. If you look at the last three fights this year and my fights before the injuries, I threw a million more kicks. Well, you looked outstanding against Uriah. You looked like your body didn't look as good with TJ. You looked like

you were a little softer. That was the one where I was hurt. That was the one where I was hurt. You can tell. You can tell physically by looking at you. By the Faber fight, I felt I did strength training camp for that whole camp. That's the difference of having a strength training camp and not having a strength training camp. You could tell by the way you looked. Right. But my cardio was through the roof because I implemented sprints instead of strength training.

Right. Whereas for the Faber fight, I could do strength training because I had enough time and my sprints. Got it. Faber fight, I could do strength training because I had enough time and my sprints. Got it. So I could double up on the workload to make my body stronger, more fast, more efficient, and more than anything, tougher to take damage better. Your core, toughening up your core, everything. Taking kicks, taking punches feels night and day different now.

Even for the Cody fight, I felt great. I do look at that fight and I think maybe I could have waited, but I knew so I wouldn't overwork myself in that year with the training and stuff because it's one thing to take three fights in a year, and it's another thing to take three title fights in a year. Anybody can say whatever they want. I fought six times this year. Yeah, but you didn't fight three.

You didn't go through three title fight camps and then fight these guys who are the best in the world that's a different thing it's so much more work fights going to five rounds yeah and it's a lot of workload um but the camp is really where the damage is done not the fight the camps are just painful for five rounds just the way it is but um with after getting through that fight with Cody I feel like I just want to face the winner of those two you know I think that he had a good night they had a like I said uh I fought that camp how many times man how legitimately if you had to break down I mean if you went back and looked at tape you could probably break down 30 rounds with me in that camp that means they have

all those reads on me through the years and then Cody started out watching me in junior high high school and then the way I look at it is he's the one guy who could implement it because he looked up to the guys that that wanted to beat me as they are the shit so it took down the ego from him and allowed him to learn from the best guys that I fought and really taken that information and use it. Whereas you give a guy like Faber or TJ information, and I guarantee you it's in one ear out the other, they already know everything. Do you not think TJ's learned a lot from Dwayne? He is now, but I'm talking about then.

Okay. In that camp. And I think that Cody was just like a sponge for these guys because he was young and so he came up in that camp as a youngster and nothing those guys could say to him would be wrong and so that made him very effective with what he's doing today and then he's built his style to be the champion which was me i think a big factor in cody's ability is also he came to MMA from boxing with very good hands yes his hands are outstanding yeah but we expected that right I'm sure you did I'm just saying that that's a big factor in his success in MMA period is that his boxing was already a really high level before he entered into MMA we had a lot

of I think even more than having boxing at a high level, it's just the rounds. Yes. It's the rounds. It's the experience in the fights more than even being good or not. Like, he was good, obviously, but he had the rounds. Right. So he wasn't coming in green. He was coming in as a 10-0 as an amateur and then having 10 pro fights.

And so that's 20-0, we were you know what i mean or 10 and 0 as a pro he lost some fights as an amateur but even then he goes through his losses as an amateur so they don't affect him on his record right and so like he's learning those things even though your brain is taking the damage he's still learning things that are going to be added to his pro career that gave him experience in the matter and that that's what the amateur system, you know, the amateur system is going to create a different level of up and comers now because they're not coming in as their record. They're coming in as two or three times their record if you count their amateurs. Yeah. That's always the thing that drives me crazy about people that jump right into the UFC,

like, I mean, not to pick on CM Punk, but the idea that CM Punk, with no competition experience whatsoever, is going to fight professionally in the biggest organization in the world, it's a little offensive. Really? Yeah. Why?

Because here's a guy that has no competition experience whatsoever, and he's going to fight someone who, legitimately, in Mickey Gall, is a brown belt in jiu-jitsu, very good on the ground, good stand-up, tough kid, has fought amateur, has fought professional, and has a wealth of martial arts experience.

It's contrary to everything anyone has ever learned about learning and teaching and getting better at martial arts. You don't just jump into the deep end of the pool when you're not some physical freak like Brock Lesnar or something like that. You're talking about a guy who's a good athlete. I mean, CM Punk is – but there's nothing unbelievable about him. He's not some freak of nature. So I would think that if this guy really did want to do this and do it the right way, get him to go through it the right way like everybody else would. Get him to start at small organizations.

Get him to learn martial arts. So whose fault is that then? Is it CM's fault? Yes. No. No? I don't think so. Whose is it? martial arts. So whose fault is that then? Is it CM's fault? Yes. No. No? I don't think so. Whose is it?

I don't agree. Whose is it? I think that CM Punk is a genius for saying I can make a million dollars on this and go fight somebody. Is that what he made? Could have. Could have. 50,000.

He'd never fought in his life. I paid $500 to fight my first five fights. Right. This is my point This is exactly the point I'm getting to He was already famous That's what the fight was for him But do you think that it should be approached that way?

No But it's going to keep happening That's what the UFC To an extent is promoting Right, because they're promoting Promotion Not big events And not how good you are right if you really look at what sells dota 5000 and freaking kimbo slice had record sales on these

weird things yeah and it's like what sense does that make is that fair is that right no is it selling yes why are people buying it because they it. But wouldn't you think that once you're already wealthy, like CM Punk is, he's already a millionaire. Wouldn't you want to do it correctly rather than go for the big cash grab that's going to wind up getting your face punched in? Like if he was your friend, let's put it this way. If he was my friend, I know exactly what I'd tell him. You've got to learn how to fight. You've got to learn how to fight the right way. You've got to learn how to fight like everybody else does.

Slowly and surely you got to train with the best people in the world and learn from your ability up don't don't pretend you're already there don't jump right into the ufc with a mean face on that's fucking crazy you're gonna get smashed and i and i respect you because you said that to brandon shop and well shop it was also an issue of him being a very good friend of mine and also me knowing. Like you said, a friend. Very good friend. That's what you say to a friend.

You tell the friend the truth. You don't just yes man him. I knew how many times he'd been knocked out. I knew how many times he'd been knocked out in football. I knew how many times he had been knocked out in the gym. And I knew he was having issues. And I knew he wasn't able to take a punch like he used to anymore. And I also knew that he also had a way out with podcasting and he's being

really successful in it. And I was, and he had a foot out the door. He already had a foot out the door. Yeah. And that's you being a good friend. So all I'm saying is it's proof that you would say that that's proof that you're following through with what, you know, and that that's rare. But I would never stop CM Punk from competing. What I would say is, Hey man, have a fucking jujitsu match. Have an amateur submission grappling match. Have an amateur kickboxing match. So why do you think he did it? Let's start off because he got a fuckload of money and because he thought he could do it.

Because he's a strong man. He's got a strong mind. He's like one of those straight edge guys that thinks he could just get a hard work, pays off, you know, and just went out there. And he's a huge celebrity. And he felt like he was just going to ride that to a new career in the UFC. And I'm like, that's like saying you're just going to jump into nascar right and you've never raced a car before you're gonna wind up dead well that that being said then the logic the only logical thing has to be the money in that decision for him 100 money money and delusion delusional thinking what's the delusion thinking that he's going to beat a guy like Mickey Gall.

It's delusional. You think he really thought that, though, more than he wanted the money? Yes, 100%. 100%. I think he thought he could beat him. I think he thought he could. Look, he's training. He wasn't training to lose.

He wasn't training to be 100% defensive. He stepped forward and threw a wild right hand. He didn't dance around the outside and try to avoid him. He tried to win. He stepped towards him and he got taken down immediately and then got mauled. You know what it's like when a guy has very little ground experience. How long it takes before they actually become competent. I watched that fight, so I already knew that was going to happen.

Of course. You knew it was going to happen. As soon as he went to the ground, you knew exactly what was going to play out, right? But you said it's almost offensive. I remember you saying that. And it's like, who is it more offensive to, us as the fighters? Or is it like, I don't know if I should be more mad at Mickey Gall for thinking he can do it. Because that's in every single one of us to think we can do something.

Not Mickey Gall. I'm sorry, not Mickey Gall. CM Punk. CM Punk, sorry. Is it his fault that he believed that he could do it to an extent? Does that make him that delusional that every man on earth thinks that they can go in there and fight and win? Or is it the UFC that says, yeah, we'll give you this much money and give you a pay-per-view and put you at the top of it and let's see how much money you can generate? Well, it's a great move for the UFC.

Right. that's how much money you can generate. Well, it's a great move for the UFC. Right. Because the UFC is like, look, hey, we got this huge superstar, and we're going to send him in with this fresh-faced young whippersnapper who's a good fighter, who's got a really good mouth, great at talking, and he's going to fuck him up for sure. Like, this is great.

And what do they do? They made a hero out of Mickey Gall. Exactly. And then when it's Mickey Gall, he goes, I think you're fucking corny. Takes another one. And then takes him out, too, and chokes him out in his next fight. I know, and I love it. I mean, Mickey Gall, he goes, Sage Northcutt, I think you're fucking corny. And then takes him out too. And chokes him out in his next fight.

Mickey Gall's a goddamn genius. What he's done is beautiful. So in a way, the UFC's done a beautiful thing. Because they go, oh, you think you can fight in the UFC? Come on in. Have a seat. Can we get you something to drink? And that being said, for me, it's not offensive

that CM Punk went in there and did it. No. It's offensive, like, I guess, how depending on who you are, it's like, it's not offensive, but it's crazy how you start to realize in those scenarios that it doesn't matter how much time, skill, or purpose you put into this craft. It matters how famous you are or else you don't get paid in a way yeah you're right and this is this is my issue it's not it's not who's wrong who's right it's you don't need to train and be the best anymore in fact that has a tiny eensy weensy tiny little bit of how you make money. I see. I don't think that's true I think that is a factor and that factor is compounded if you're a great shit talker the point being Conor McGregor

Conor McGregor is not just a fantastic shit talker. He's a world-class fighter fighting Yeah, bad motherfucker, and he's capable knocking people out with one shot shot i mean that is something you people they're so excited to see him they're paying money to see him he's different we're talking about somebody on a different level than cm well ronda when she was in her prime ronda when she was beating all these women and when she was just flipping people in their head and arm barring them you people were paying to see not just this spectacular figure, but also this person who really knew how to fight. Right. And it was a mixture of that and decent matchups, too. Oh, 100%.

Well, also in the sport being really young, the female MMA being, it's gone through in just a few years, this fantastic metamorphosis where you're seeing women like Valentina Shevchenko that is just an overall well-roundedrounded world-class mixed martial artist now. Girls like Rose Namajunas who are coming up. These MMA fighters that are coming up that are super talented now and everyone's getting better. The young people coming into the game that have this really comprehensive MMA game, whereas before she was fighting people, no disrespect to her opponents they were limited they were very limited their striking maybe wasn't so good they were awkward they weren't that good athletically they weren't that

strong they couldn't last as long they couldn't touch her on the ground and she shone she shined in those matchups I guess it's just odd how you can look at somebody like Paige Van Zant and the champ young Jay, young J check. They're in the same way, right? Yes. Yeah. 15, 15. Yeah. Sorry. It makes me up sometimes. Uh, that if you really look at the breakdown of the,

of the weight class, Paige Van Zandt and the champ are almost equal of equal value. If you fight them to an extent because of views and who wants to see who fight. One was on dancing with the stars, became a big household name. Before Dancing with the Stars, she got Dancing with the Stars because of before Dancing with the Stars, she was already on Dancing

with the Stars. She's like a fucking beautiful cheerleader. It's just, that is the appeal that's making money is my point. She can fight. Absolutely. She's beaten some great girls in the division. But if we're talking about young Jaycheck check who can right fight fight fight put her blood sweat tears yes like you see it in her world everything about it and then page van zandt who is a good athlete and can fight

it's crazy the money levels that come to the same because one is just that famous and that camera perfect compared to the other one who's just that good at fighting, but she's not as good on the camera as the other one. Right. So it levels everything out. And that's what's blowing my mind is watching that happen even though the skill set isn't even close to the same, they're going to make the same money. Well, the really scary thing is when those matchups get made.

Or Paige might make more money. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. And it's crazy. Or Paige might make more money. Maybe, yeah. And it's crazy. That's what's trippy. It is kind of trippy. But it kind of makes sense because it's entertainment as well as fighting. It's not just a sport. Correct.

It's not just who's the best sprinter. And that's where I go to, it doesn't offend me with CM Punk. Well, it doesn't offend me in that sense. What offended me was that he, it didn't offend me that he thought it because I felt like someone should have told him and it didn't offend me that his coaches prepared him for it because his coach is a good friend of mine, Duke Rufus and what do you got to do? The guy comes to you and wants to learn how to fight. Throw him in there.

You got to throw him in there. It just it should happen the way it happened because it's good for everybody to see it shouldn't happen the way it happened because that's all we were going to see you know what I'm saying and there wasn't a chance

it was a mauling like you remember those Mike Tyson fights where he would fight guys and you would just go don't blink because this shit is not going to last

it's kind of like that it's like yes it's a competition but god damn it it's not really you know like Paige Van Zandt let's go back to her again

who's a very talented tough girl I've got nothing but respect for I think she's really fun I'm with you on that It scared the fuck out of me when she was getting close to Joanna When she was getting like when she was winning fights and then she fought Rose Namajunas and Rose Namajunas is like right there Right Rose Namajunas lost to Karolina Kowalkiewicz in a very close fight Karolina went on to have a very close fight with Ioana, right? So Rose beats Paige Van Zandt decidedly, right?

She beat her down. It was a huge performance for her. But that meant that Paige was literally two steps away from a murderer. I mean, Ioana, look what she did to Jessica Panay. Look what she did to Carla Esparza. I was just going to say that. That's my homegirl. She trains with us at Alliance.

And Jessica is no slouch. No slouch. And she's tough. That's the other thing. She's not just like, I mean. She took it. Yeah, she's a tough girl. And all these girls are tough.

But when you, I don't know. I was a little off when the girls came in the gym, especially at Alliance. We never had women in the gym ever my whole career. It't like it was just like it was just like no women were fighting like you know like for years yeah when did the women start coming there it's been they've been with us like two three years now i want to say maybe if that um with our camp with eric but when they first came i was a little off put, but the longer they're around, the more they're like, they just, they're so in the sport. They're just, they're like, their eyes are just like, uh, like sponges. That's the best way I could put it.

And they're just so hungry to hear. And they're not just listening. They're hearing you. That's the biggest difference I noticed with the women compared to trying to work with men is men don't, they listen, but they're not hearing you. They already have their own vision of I'm CM Punk. I'm going to go out there and hit him with the right hand. And that's going to be, he had that vision. And no matter what you told CM Punk, that it wasn't going to go that way because you were a 50 time world champion and you know, what's going to happen. He, he had that vision and that was it. Women, you can tell them how it's going to happen and they trust and they listen and they are open and they're willing. And when you have that and you're teaching somebody something, that's when you can watch, watch this thing grow. And that's a huge thing with the women that I

really have learned being around them. Is they're just so humble in knowing where they're at. We're in a fight here. I need to listen. Things could go weird. Whereas men, it's like I was built to do this. This is me. This is how I do.

I'm a man. I'm the man. I could kill anybody on earth. We're all wired that way. Ego. Is that in some ways connected to your learning to let go? It's 100% my biggest battle. And I didn't mention it because I'm still learning so much about it that I don't want to sound too off with my description because I'm not, I'm not,

I haven't completely well versed. Yeah. And I haven't masked. It's such a hard thing to master, completely well versed yeah and I haven't mastered it's such a hard thing to master but when you can let go of the ego the ego is just such a horrible thing for us I mean it it ruins so many things that we could be free from

my ego could allow me to to make me think that I'm above you and that you should have two espressos here for me because I'm me and I should have my water at 80 degrees and somebody should be giving me a massage. And then when we get out of here, I should have my own car pick me up.

And if I don't have my own car pick, picking me up, then, you know, some, somebody should be, but that's only because I put myself above things. Right. And the only reason I put myself above things because my ego, the only reason I make excuses is because my ego forces me to hide what I am rather than what happened. Ego just demolishes everything, especially in the sport of fighting. When you can set your ego aside, you hear it all the time, leave your ego at the door and then come. That doesn't happen. Very rare do people leave their ego at the door. They're

keeping track of every submission that happens, every takedown, every punch. They're fixing their shin guards in the middle of the practice because they're getting tired and they don't want that one big kick to land or that one big takedown to land when they're tired. And then it hurts their brain because their psychology needs to stop all takedowns in order for their ego not to be hurt. It goes on and on and on and on. And ego is the biggest thing that I notice is the difference with men and women. Now women have it too, but it's just a different feel when we got women in the room and men in the room and how they, the energies is just interesting. Do you think that women are better at taking instruction from men and maybe not as good at taking it from women? Do you think that what's going on is that the women are conceding that these men are bigger and stronger and more experienced?

And so it's easier for them to do it, but maybe they still have that ego against other women? Yes. I mean, you pretty much, I really believe that that is pretty much exactly. I mean, there is a, now it doesn't always go this way, but there is a natural flow in the way we were built as human beings, right? To where, um, in the past where, you know, the man is the leader of the household, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. Like that was the old way of thinking. And now we're getting contemporary and it's like, everybody is equal. And as that's come to pass, we've seen women be the biggest hit in the world for fighting right now. Like their main carding everything and they're running stuff and i think that that has become so many years in the past where you're like all right men are the household they run everything the women had to put their

ego aside for so long that they learned how to do it they had no ego walking into things they just already assumed the worst but then it made them so much more open that yeah, they take instruction I swear they just it's just different with women. I'm not all of them, but It's just odd I there's you have to be in it to really feel it that they women just take instruction differently in a fight scenario And that's not with everybody. I think that if you're dating the fighter something you try to help them It's it's actually the worst thing that could ever happen. I've seen that.

So it goes both ways. Yeah. I've seen it, but rarely do I see two lovers coach together and train together and do fine, right? The only odd one that I've seen work is Smiley. Misha. Misha Tate and Brian Carraway. Misha, too. There's another one.

What were you going to say? Who were you going to say? Smiley. Who's Smiley he just fought he's got the oh he's got the smiling on the back of his head

the redhead smiling Sam Alvey Sam Alvey who's he his girl's in his corner almost every time he fights oh I didn't know that yeah and his girl

they got he was walking into the last fight with his kids with him and his girl and he's kissing her while he's laughing at the and it just it blows my mind because everybody has their own systems you know Like he was walking into the last fight with his kids with him and his girl, and he's kissing her while he's laughing at the –

and it just blows my mind because everybody has their own systems. He's a happy guy. He seems like he's having a grand old time. Duh. Who knows, man? I don't get it. Yeah, well, it's him, you know. That's the weird thing about people, right?

Everyone's got a whole different formula. Yeah, it's just the whole thing. All these topics are interesting. So we're pretty much running out of time because you got to head back to san diego but i wanted to get back to where you're at now as far as like recovery and what your thoughts are about resting and getting getting back to camp and when do you think your feet are going to be raring to go again all your injuries that. that's pretty much that year just put a good brunt on my body so I'm just,

right now I'm just healing and then those two are going to fight I think July, I don't know. I think it's the July 4th card, is that what it is? Something like that.

The July weekend or I think it's the 7th or the 8th. I don't really know. I don't know the exact date. Well, that's the big weekend. That July 4th weekend

is always a huge weekend for the UFC. And I think those two will fight on that card and then I'd like the winner weekend that july 4th weekend is always a huge weekend for the ufc and i think uh those two will fight on that card and then i'd like to win or that i'd like to come back and fight fight for the belt and put on another good show i mean regardless that show uh was great and you know just to touch on that fight one more time what was going through my head that changed things you know i hear a lot about what people oh he was he didn't look the same he this he that and it's like there's some things that i want to clarify that unless you're a professional fighter and you're in that zone you don't really understand

and that was the the the way that i approached the fight was a little different in this one than you've seen in the past for the first two rounds it was it was pretty good it was back and forth me and me and cody it was it was like it was a competitive matchup coming into third i get cut and when you get what did he hit you with a kick it was a kick or a headbutt and then i don't know but it doesn't matter we're gonna say it was a kick who cares headbutt kick got me uh cut me right here in my eyebrow. And I remember I got cut and I remember it started bleeding and it wasn't the blood that bothered me as much as no, as the doctor. That's when if you're me and you're in a, and I think about everything that's going on and I'm adjusting, it's like, all right, the doctor's in here. This cut is bad. I mean, and the way they were talking

to me, are you okay? How's it look? And I'm like, oh shit, they're going to me are you okay how's it look i'm like oh shit they're gonna stop this fight like this every and when i heard the crowd's reaction oh like when they saw when they showed it i was like crap they might stop this fight so this is the third round i gotta go after it for the in the fourth like there's no other it's not just it's no longer fighting smart it's no longer fighting smart after i got cut the third round is lost for me right when you get cut that's it chances of me winning that or i have to drop them or take them down and hold them down and then maybe i could win but the the cut is a deciding factor as an athlete that you have to make a choice am i all in or am i going to play safe and i was all in once i got cut because i already lost on the scorecards in my mind once you get cut you're down on on the bleeding and the damage they're going to play safe? And I was all in once I got cut because I already lost on the scorecards in my mind. Once you get cut, you're down on the bleeding and the damage. They're going to see

that and that's it. So now I either cut him or put him out or keep him down on the mat. That was the goal from then on after that cut, it was no longer stick, move, uh, go to the weak side, go to the strong side, time this time that it's's you got to kill this dude or else you're going to lose a decision. That's it. And that's why you saw a different me in the fourth. And that's what, that's where the big mistake was in me getting put down on my butt a couple times in one round and getting a 10, eight round.

And then, but at that point with the cut, let's say I take it safe. Let's say I get cut and I play it safe. Like I'd been doing. The chances that the doctor would stop it were high. He could, I'll play it safe so he doesn't cut my eye open worse, right? Stick, move, just stay safe. No, it's like, just go for it. Like, I'm all in.

I'm in the fight. That's what I was feeling at that time. And that's what can't be read on the outside of a fight is what a fighter's feeling. What I'm feeling is they might stop this fight because of this cut. So you either got to take him out, take him down, or cut him back. And so that was the focus. And when that happened, I went all in. And then that created the openings that he needed to be successful in his game plan.

And that was it. So fifth round, I knew I had to take him out. I mean, I won the fifth round. Who wins the fifth round after losing, after getting put you know, put on their butt a couple times? Not very many people. So it's a matter of that fight can go different. I have the tools, the skill set, the cardio, everything it takes. A little bit of health, some adjustments, and everything's fine.

It's a game of inches. So that's how I feel about it. I'm not discouraged by that as much as I feel like I can grow from it. It's also a massive challenge now that you know that you've faced a guy that can beat you like that. And now that massive challenge will certainly burn a fire inside of you. You shouldn't need that to burn a fire inside of you, Joe. You don't think it gives you more? More motivation? and a fire inside of you. You don't think it gives you more?

I don't think. More motivation? If losing makes you, for me, if losing changes how you approach something, then it weighs more than winning. Does that mean that the, well, okay,

I see what you're saying. And I think that they should, I don't, you gotta be who you are, winning and losing. You can't let that decide. Now, if I don't have the drive

to go win a world title without winning or losing, then what am I doing? Right. So that's not the right way to think about it. And this is a big part of your new mindset. No, this is life. Right. But this is a part of your new mindset. I've always had this. I mean, it's been, it's gotten, I've gotten better at accepting it. Yes. With, with losing control of things that I can control. Yes. But I've always thought that way. You can't, how do I make it so winning and losing are equal? Because I don't want it to change me. Even if I lose, I need to still be

the person that I tell everybody I am winning and losing. You have to be what you are. You can't change because it didn't go your way. So I don't think I need that loss to be driven. I was driven and thought I was going to win that fight as much as ever before that fight. I'm as driven and as good as I always was now after the loss. It's just a matter of making adjustments, not burning desire. Just another challenge. Not burning desire. Burning desire, if you don't have that in all times, then get out because you're going to get hurt.

So how much time? So if we're talking with them fighting in July, we're talking right now it is now February. So if they fight in July, then you're likely looking at somewhere around December, somewhere like that. Yeah, I mean— Perhaps, depending on— Yeah, if I do one fight this year, okay, and go back and win my title, okay, and then defend it another three times in one year, okay. If I—you know?

I mean, these guys are going to fight. There's going to be a winner. People want to see me fight them. I really believe that. One of these guys are going to fight. There's going to be a winner. People want to see me fight them. I really believe that. One of these guys. So what am I in a rush for other than getting healthy and healing and putting on a good show and fight these guys? They want to fight me. I'll tell you that.

Both of them. Of course. So what's the rush other than being perfectly healthy so I can put that show on? I fought three times last year. Cody sat on the outside, fought a three-round fight, came in and fought me. I fought three titles, fought for three titles against the best guys in the world. I would like to see how he can do. Let's see if he can keep a win streak going. Let's see if he can keep the belt at all against the guy that I already fought. And let's see if TJ, what TJ can do with this opportunity. This is the thing. I don't mind

seeing what these gentlemen can do with it because I've fought them both. And I know what it takes to be the best for a very long time, not just for one fight. And I'm not sure if they have what it takes yet. But I'm here, and I like the challenge to find out, and I like to challenge them again to find out. Dominic Cruz, it's been a pleasure, man. I really appreciate you coming down, man. That was awesome. Good times. And I'm really looking forward to seeing you back in there again. I'm Cruz, it's been a pleasure, man. I really appreciate you coming down, man. That was awesome. Good times.

And I'm really looking forward to seeing you back in there again. I'm really looking forward to you and me doing commentary. Commentary. I'll see you soon. March 4th. See you soon. Thank you, everybody. We'll be back tomorrow with Philip DeFranco.

See you then. Bye.