The Joe Rogan Experience - #962 - Jocko Willink

Episode Date: May 18, 2017

Jocko Willink is a decorated retired Navy SEAL officer, author of the book "Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win", and co-founder of Echelon Front, where he is a leadership instructor, speaker, and executive coach. He his the host of The Jocko Podcast.

4, 3, 2, welcome back Jocko, what's happening baby? It's good to be here. It's good to see you man, we were just talking about Chris Cornell, we found out last night at the comedy store that he died and then this morning found out that he hung himself. Fuck. that he died and then this morning found out that he hung himself. Just fuck. It's, it's hard to even comprehend. How do you comprehend that?

I'm, I'm living in a parallel universe. Doesn't make any sense. Like how could someone like, you know, it's easy on the outside looking in at a guy like that, but you like that guy was one of the best ever. Like how does a guy like that even want to kill himself?

How does the lead singer of sound garden to me it just really kind of reveals the complexities of human life yeah exactly what you're saying to have a guy that is at the pinnacle of his skill the pinnacle of fame the pinnacle of money and and for him to say you know what not, I'm not going to do it anymore. Yeah, I don't know what was going on in his head, obviously. Who knows if he was on medication, if he had some sort of an issue, a health issue. Who knows? I mean, I would never speculate, but I just don't understand. I mean, again, I don't know his life, but I couldn't even comprehend it.

I can't even imagine it. Well, that's one of the really hard things when you start talking about suicide for people that, for someone like me. And I haven't had suicidal thoughts, right? So when you go from that to somebody that not only has the thoughts but then goes ahead and executes it, it's very hard to comprehend. Yeah. I've met people that have done it before. I've had a few friends that have done it. I just have never understood it.

I don't get it. But I don't know them. You know, I mean, everybody's got their own unique mindset. And it's just, you know what's really crazy, man? I read the statistic the other day about suicide, that people in poor neighborhoods are far less likely to kill themselves. People that are in the struggle Yeah, well, I actually believe that because they're fighting for something Yeah

and someone that's already got everything and then they're then they're up with no drive with no goal and Nothing left to achieve and so then all of a sudden they're just staring at the mirror Without anywhere else to go, you know, and I'm not talking about Chris Cornell in particular, but for some people I know one of the things that happens is that when they become very successful and they're still not happy, then they get hopeless. They just feel like, well, I have everything, and yet I'm fucking miserable. You know, I have a nice big house, I drive this fancy car, and I still am miserable. Like, there's no hope. Like, this life is meaningless. I drive this fancy car and I still am miserable. Like there's no hope.

Like this life is meaningless. I don't even know what to say to that. I don't know what to say. To be honest with you, when you hear that, you just don't even know what to say to that. You know, one thing that why I don't understand it. I like struggle. I like it. I think it's important.

Yeah, no, there's no doubt about that. There's no doubt about having something that you're striving for some goal. And like you just said, when all those goals have been achieved and now you're sitting there at the top of the mountain and you, now you don't feel happy. What do you do? Just pick up a fucking hobby, man. Find something you suck at and get better at it. I mean, that seems so simplistic, but, um, you know, I just, you and I are, we share this, uh, this very important, uh, part of our lives, which is intense exercise. Indeed. And I think that, you know, I go to your Instagram almost every day to look at your watch.

It's hilarious. If you go to Jocko's Instagram, it's a fucking Timex watch advertisement. It's all just that Iron Man watch with 4.30 in the morning, the occasional 3.30. This motherfucker's up at 3.30. And, you know, And you working out. His fucking hairy gorilla arm and a Timex Iron Man triathlon watch. But that's what's up, man. That's what's up.

I mean, just fucking doing it. Getting out there and struggling. And then once you do do that, here's the thing. Like a friend of mine said that. I was saying something about you coming on the podcast. And he goes, can that dude take another picture of his fucking watch? I go, I hope he takes a picture of his watch every day until he dies. I go, it's important.

It's sort of, in a lot of ways, it's symbolic of what we're talking about. Like, no, it's not fun to look at your watch every day. But you're fucking doing it every day like that's what's important Yeah, and I actually early on I had someone you know say something along the lines of on social media on Instagram or on Twitter You know are you just gonna post another picture you're watching? I was like unfollow me Just don't follow me. It's no big deal I'm not making you do it and and now it is kind of turned into something where I'm doing it every day, regardless of anything else in the world. Fuck them.

I like looking at your watch. I want to know when I get up at 7 and I think I'm getting up early. You've been up for hours and you're already done working out. I like it. I think it's, but it is in a lot of ways. It is. It's symbolic of what we're talking about. It's the struggle.

Yeah. And you know, you know who doesn't complain about and i always make this point too there's like a a single mom somewhere in the valley here that's working three jobs that's getting up at 3 30 in the morning so she can go work as a waitress somewhere before she's got her other day job that she's got to go through so she can feed her kids yeah i get up almost as a luxury at this point i mean right you know i'm a retired guy from the from the military so i can kind of get up almost as a luxury at this point. I mean, I'm a retired guy from the military, so I can kind of get up whenever I want. I get up early as a luxury. Sort of, but you also get up because that's who you are.

Yeah, and I get up because it is a way to maintain discipline in life, for sure. To get that stone out and sharpen that blade every morning. It's the grind that sharpens the axe indeed. There's no other way. There's no other way. And I don't want to say that this would have saved Chris Cornell or anybody else that did it. I'm not saying that. But I mean, for some people out there that aren't feeling good, man, if you just fucking

struggled more, you get over that struggle, you feel better. It sounds so simplistic, but I swear by it. I felt shitty myself and then forced myself to work out. And after I get out of there, I'm like, whoa, 100 percent. It's 100 percent guarantee. And, you know, actually, I had I had, you know, I had Tim Ferriss come on my podcast. And when he came on, he was like, hey, I don't know if I'm the right kind of guest for your podcast, because, you know, my podcast is like about war and death and killing and all that stuff. And so, you know, Tim's are about being better and stuff like that

So it's easy to raise your voice Tim's Tim's podcast is about improving yourself and mine is about war and genocide and horrible things and he said to me, you know Hey, I don't know if if I come on the podcast But you know, maybe I'm not the right type of guest or whatever and I and I wrote back to him and I said Hey, man You know you've been through some dark stuff in your life because he wrote a blog post years ago about him being suicidal and him contemplating and planning to commit suicide. This is Tim Ferriss. Did he really?

Yeah. He went through full motions. You know, typical Tim Ferriss methodology. What did he do? He went to the library and got out a bunch of books on killing yourself and then did the research on how he was going to it and planned it all and then when was this how long ago he was going he was like just done with college and so I mean what is that I would see 35 or something so maybe it's 20s 15 years ago Christ and he was under all this pressure you know he was an Ivy League guy and he was trying to finish school but then it wasn't working out and it was just problematic and so he started

saying himself okay well how am I getting out of Well, there's one way to get out of it. And luckily he didn't do it. But when he came on, you know, that's what we talked about. And what he said, you know, as he was making recommendations from, again, from a guy who's been there was like, Hey, if, if you're trapped in your, in your mind and you're starting to feel that way, go do something physical, get in your body, get out of your mind. The same thing you're saying when you're feeling bad, when you're feeling down, go out and swing a kettlebell around and you will feel better. Yeah. This is just too much for some people, especially they're just experiencing way too much pressure. And that, that pressure, a lot of times it's just an imbalance in perspective. And some of it's like, uh, I was

talking to this mom once, uh, her daughter, uh, does gymnastics with my daughter. And we were talking about, um, kids killing themselves where she used to live. She used to live in, um, one of the really wealthy tech areas outside of San Francisco and a bunch of kids that went to school with her daughter that were like 15, 16 were jumping off bridges and shit. Like it was a, epidemic. And they were trying to figure out what the fuck is going on. And they're literally calling it affluenza. That these affluent kids and their families are literally worth a billion dollars. You know, I mean, everybody's super rich.

And they're having this insane pressure like before high school and in high school to be in Ivy League schools and to get 4.0s. And they're fucking they're not 4.0s and they're fucking, they're not having any fun and they're not experiencing life and they don't have any hope and their parents are all on fucking pills and they're just killing themselves. Yeah. And as you said, it really is a piece of perspective because if you think about, think about some, when you watch one of your buddies go down the downward spiral, maybe it's not the suicide, but whether it's drug addiction, a lot of times some female, the girlfriend, the ex-wife will just take them on the downward spiral. Maybe it's not the suicide, but whether it's drug addiction, a lot of times some female, the girlfriend, the ex-wife will just take them on the downward

spiral and there's, they can't get out of it. And if they were to step back, if they were, if it was you and your buddy watching one of your other friends go down the spiral, they go, oh my God, I can't believe he's doing that. That's crazy. But when you're in that spiral, people get caught in that and they can't, they can't get the perspective of what it looks like from the outside. Yeah. It's hard for people to break momentum too. Momentum that's good momentum or momentum that's bad momentum. When I get on a good groove or working out all the time, I feel it. Like after I'm done working out, I'm like, yeah, I can't wait to get in there again.

I can't wait to work out again. That's the good momentum. But then there's that bad momentum like you get injured or something like that You can't do anything for a couple weeks and then to try to get that Kickstart that meant motor up again. It's the it's hard to get momentum Yeah, and I've caught some some flack for saying there was these big science Experiments or something in there and they said that willpower dissipates throughout the day and the more decisions you have to make the weaker you get throughout the day and I think that's BS. I agree with what you're saying, which is when you wake up in the morning, you get a good workout. You don't lose willpower. You actually build it. You feel better. You feel

stronger. And then at lunchtime, you're not saying, hey, where's the pizza and where's the donuts? No. At lunchtime, you already worked out. You feel good. You're like, hey, where's the steak? Where's the protein? And that and, and that carries throughout the day as opposed to exactly what you're saying, which is when you sleep in, you skip your workout. All of a sudden the donuts are starting to look pretty good. And then the next thing, you know, it's pizza. And then when you get home at night, you're just watching TV and that can continue on for days and then days turn into weeks. And then the next thing, you know, you're fat and out of shape. Yeah. And then on top of that, if they did do that study, like really, I want to know what those people were eating because that's a big factor too. Cause there's a lot of people that are eating shit food. And then by the end of the day, your body's in a

crisis. Your body's just processing all this bullshit. Yeah. And people ask me that too. They go, you know, how much do you sleep? First of all, I get asked all the time. So I go to bed around 11. I woke up, wake up around four 30 every day. So that's five and a half hours. I, sometimes I sleep more than that. Sometimes I go to bed at 10, 10 30, 11. Sometimes I stay up wake up around 430 every day. So that's five and a half hours I sometimes I sleep more than that. Sometimes I go to bed at 10 10 30 11. Sometimes I stay up later But when the person says to me, oh, you know, I can't do that. I feel horrible. How can I feel better? And my first question is like, what are you eating? What are you eating? Because if you're eating Cheetos and chocolate chip cookies for lunch, there's no way you're gonna feel good No, I don't care if you slept 12 hours the night before

Yeah, that's a it's a giant factor. And if you're eating a big, like bullshit lunch filled with nonsense, like your body's got to process all that stuff. And so at the end of the day, yeah, you're going to lose your willpower. So like when five o'clock, six o'clock rolls around, you're going to be tired. But if you have a healthy lunch and you know, you're, you're properly fueled and then you also have positive people in your life. Everyone's motivated by the end of the day're gonna feel good like say if you're going if you're doing jiu-jitsu with a bunch Of other people that are doing jiu-jitsu Everybody's enjoying it you're looking forward to that 630 class Everybody's fired up you get out of work

You're fucking pumped man you what you're doing it when you get out of work you're fueling up with water You're trying to get some electrolytes in you because you know you're gonna get out there on the mats You're gonna sweat it out Yeah And the thing you got to do too is when you get done with work and it was a grind and you didn't get you ate crappy food and whatever happened happened and you got yelled at by your boss or whatever and the real easy decision is to be like i'm not going to go train tonight those are the nights you got to train because that is going to kick you back onto track real

quick when you get in there and you see your boys and they're getting ready to tear you up on the mats and that's going to get you on track, as opposed to going home and watching TV, which isn't going to do anything for you. Yeah, and if jujitsu's not your thing, whatever the fuck your thing is, just go and do it. Just force yourself to do it. And if you feel like shit because you ate lunch,

then your lunch was filled with bullshit, well then, hey dummy, don't eat shitty lunch tomorrow. Tomorrow try a nice salad. Try a salad with some salmon and see how you feel then you're like hey i feel way better today at six o'clock duh yeah now your decision making will be better like people don't understand how significant it is like all these little decisions they those are like that that's the path for the rest of your existence on earth and if you decide to go to fucking cheetos chocolate chip cookie route you're You're just making a shit path.

You're carving your fucking path through broken rocks and glass, and it's not the way to go. Yeah, there's no doubt that the life change decision isn't one big decision that you make. It's all these little tiny decisions. It's having a salad instead of Cheetos. That's what it is on a daily basis. And if you think about that, and then you just make the right decision on those little things That's where that's where the change if you just reach in your refrigerator You see the coca-cola right next to the water just go like that

Grab that water just do it. I know you don't want to but just do it and you're like I fucking did it I grab the water listen water doesn't taste good compared to coca-cola if your body is like craving that that heroin of co-Cola but the reality is if you were out in the desert and you saw a cold bottle of water you would be so excited for that water like oh it would be the most delicious thing ever when you're at a restaurant you're like oh you got any lemonade oh you know I want a soda I want I want some some mouth pleasure yeah and if you've ever been truly thirsty before like in the desert Yeah, you haven't had water or you didn't bring enough water and you're really thirsty you Coke isn't even appealing at that. No, it's nasty

You get to feel what really is you get in that mode where you've been truly thirsty Which I've been before you know just not like I was gonna die but I've been close to getting some sort of a heatstroke scenario happening and And then got to a stream pump the water drink the water and that's the most beautiful thing in the world And you don't have water and you get it Yeah I bet more so you know if you're getting it from a stream and then pumping it through a filter and you're just getting it Right out of the earth so good. Oh

It's what you're supposed to have folks well. I think people are supposed to struggle I think there's there's a part of us that longs for the old times when we were just some sort of primitive monkey people Running away from animals. There's that that's still in our DNA. There's no doubt that you have an instinct I mean, that's why we play sports, right? You play sports because you want to compete with people and and look at the rise of UFC Why is that because that's the most primal sport you can possibly come up with is I'm gonna fight you That's what we're gonna do in a cage. So why is that so popular? We still have that instinct that we want to we want to fight we want to struggle we want to

Survive yeah, you know Dana White and I have talked about this so many times that it transcends every language like Cricket is so giant in England right and in India try putting that shit on TV in America We'll be like get bitch get that fucking stupid paddle game off TV. What the fuck are you doing? We don't even know what's going on. Or conversely, baseball. You play baseball to some country that doesn't accept baseball. They're like, what is this nonsense? This takes forever.

You know, I mean, the real sport of MMA, like, is not, I mean, it is unquestionably, it's a sport and there are rules. But it transcends. You know what's happening you might not understand the ground that much when when submissions but when you see a guy turning red because the other guy's behind him choking the fucking life out of him you get it you see what's happening you understand it that's another cool thing if you ever you ever teach kids jujitsu yeah it's so awesome to say no you want to put this guy down and that's that's all you need to say they go okay and then you give them a little taste of information.

Like, if you grab their legs and push them, they'll fall down. And that's all you need to tell them. And then they'll be basically doing double leg takedowns instinctively. Yeah. And it's savage. It's beautiful. It is beautiful. But you can't do that with a regular sport like baseball.

Okay, what you're going to do is you're going to have this guy throw the ball to you three times every time you swing if the missus that's a that goes To him and he right was how's that work no yeah? Well it's also this something feels good about like choking somebody you know it's just there's something about it like even if you're not hurting In them I mean it just feels good is it feels like you're supposed to do it. You may be just you and I You know I think anybody I think anybody that that tries it and gets that that's why that's why jiu-jitsu is getting so popular Yeah, because you take a random person on the street male female 10 years old 20 years old 40 years old You put them and you say okay when you get them this other person in this position right here And you get their arm around you get your arm around their neck

You can kill them or you can accept you can accept their tap and you can have mercy on them That's a powerful feeling We know another thing that's powerful about it is the two guys can be friends and practice killing each other and not even hurt each Other yeah, like like I'm sure you you've, like, I feel better working out with black belts. I feel safer. Oh, for sure. Training with guys that are, like, super high level than I do with even guys that are, like,

an athletic white belt that might spaz out and accidentally headbutt me. Yeah, and I mean, I get asked that question all the time, too, is people say, hey, am I too old to start jiu-jitsu? I'm 52 years old. I'm 49 years old. And what I tell them is you're not too old. You're definitely not too old, but you need to be smart. And one of the smartest decisions you

need to make is choosing your training partners. And you don't want to train if you're a 52 year old guy that's never trained before and you're a white belt and you're going to get on the mat. The person you don't want to train with is the other white belt that's 22 years old. That's on steroids. That's going to go psycho. And he's and he's gonna he just he just doesn't know how to control his body Whereas the black belt the black belt the percentage chance of you being hurt by a black belt if you're a white belt That's just you know trying is Nearly zero a nearly zero if it's a legit black belt. Yeah. Yeah, I teach my kids class sometimes my kid takes a mixed martial arts class and

Yeah, I teach my kids class sometimes. My kid takes a mixed martial arts class, and the instructor asked me to come in and demonstrate one particular type of move the other day. And so I demonstrated it, and we were talking about some different positions that are important for kids to recognize, like how to make sure you don't get, like kids were giving up their back when they were trying to pass guard. They were trying to pass guard, and they were pushing down, and I'm like, you never want to turn your shoulder like that, because I had explained to them to arm drag. so i'm explaining to these kids to arm drag

and you see their little brain spinning man and you see them practicing on each other and they're laughing and they're girls you know so you're watching these like eight-year-old girls having the best time like choking each other and everything and going through these motions and to me i mean i think it's fucking awesome man these kids do it all the time no one's getting hurt they're having a great time with each other and it's just this primal release like let's get all that shit out of there and then you can be civil yeah well even if there's no jujitsu instruction involved and there's no mats around and you take two kids and you put them in the yard, eventually they're going to start wrestling with each other.

Especially boys. Yeah, boys for sure. Boys for sure. I was at a party once with my kids, and these two boys started going at it. And neither one of them had any training, you could tell. But it's just natural. Like they're getting their hips low,

and they're trying to push each other, and they're trying to figure it out, and neither one of them knew what to do. And I kind of wanted to go up and start coaching them, but they're just playing in the grass. I didn't want, you know, it's like, it's, it's fascinating to see just natural human instincts. Yeah. And that's the other thing I've noticed in teaching kids. Jiu Jitsu is the kids that are a little bit more cerebral. You're, you're, you know, the parents will think, well, you know, my son, he's, he's kind of a nerd. He's kind of a smart kid. I don't know if he's going to like this. But the opposite is actually true very often where the kid that's cerebral, he'll recognize

as soon as you show him three things, like you said, his wheels are turning. He's going, wait a second. This is a skill I can learn. And if I know this and the other guy doesn't know this, I'll be able to beat him. And so cerebral kids often get into it even more than some kid know some kid. That's just kind of a natural bruiser Oh, yeah, don't mean tenth planet. Jujitsu is filled with nerds. They're all nerds Assassin nerds it's really kind of interesting is and and you're you're you're not being facetious when you use the word assassin nerds because you know this is you know if you go back before you knew jiu-jitsu before i knew jiu-jitsu before i knew jiu-jitsu and you know i was a big navy seal 200

pounds one of those kids that's 145 pounds would absolutely have destroyed me if we got into a fight boom take my back put me to sleep you know what i mean i i might you know put up an okay fight and hit him one time in the side of the head and then he's in on my back and put me to sleep that's the reality nerd assassins coming at you strong well it is i mean it's a complex game of kinetic chess i mean it's more complex than chess because you know in chess you've got these different pieces and they're restricted in their movements jujitsu is not restricted in its movement and every transition has so many different possibilities and so many different setups. There's so many different times you get led one way and then just to get you to defend so that they can establish a second position and they get you to defend that so they can establish a third position.

Yeah, and that part of it is what I think really for me transferred from jiu-jitsu to not only to the battlefield but to life as well because the big thing in jiu-jitsu from my perspective is that you don't go strength against strength right if I'm I don't if I'm trying to choke you I don't try and choke you overtly I don't just grab your neck no I work on your arm and I put pressure over here and I pass your guard and then I eventually while you're thinking about something else boom that's when I grab your neck or that's when I grab your arm and that's what I think on the battlefield you know you can't you just don't attack hardened positions of the enemy and in life you know if you're trying to be a leader you're trying to step up and lead somebody

you don't just come down and bark orders at people because that's not as effective as maneuvering and adjusting your position and getting in a better position and then getting that person to give you what you want instead of trying to take it from them. Yeah. And that's a really important lesson for parenthood. Like you can't just tell kids what to do, you know, like you just do it. Cause I told you to do it. They're like, fuck you. I'm going to be a hooker. And that applies not only to kids and you're a hundred percent. It applies to kids, but it applies to adults as well. And that is people need to kids and you're a hundred percent it applies to kids but it applies to adults as well And that is people need to understand why they're doing what they're doing And you know if I want you to go take down some building and capture some bad guy. I don't go hey

Hey, Joe, I want you to take down this building once you pack capture this bad guy These are the guys I want you to take with you. Here's the route I want you to take in here's the methodology I want you to use for the clearance because then when I send you to go Do that mission. It's not your mission. It's my mission. I came up with a plan. You didn't. So you might be, you might've thought there was a better way to do it, or you might have had a different idea of how to get it done. And now when you go out there and you meet some kind of resistance, whether it's an obstacle you didn't expect, or whether it's some scenario that you didn't foresee, instead of you trying to overcome it, you just blame me. You just look at Jocko

came up with a stupid plan and here we are, it's failing. Forget it. We're going back. We're not going to carry out the mission. Whereas if I said, Hey Joe, here's what I want you to do. Go figure out the best way to do it. And now you come up with a plan and now you make up all the methodology of how you're going to get it done. And you decide who you're going to take with you. Now it's your plan. You own that plan. And when you go out in the field and you meet a little resistance, guess what you do? You say, I'm going to find a way around it. I'm gonna overcome this. I'm gonna overcome that obstacle I'm gonna make it happen and that's another piece of leadership And it's the exact same thing with kids if you tell your kid, you know, you will get good grades in school

That means nothing to them But if you explain to them, hey, I would love for you to get good grades and here's why it's gonna open opportunities for you In the future It's gonna allow you to be able to outsmart people because you're going to have more knowledge than them. And then you're going to be able to end up making more money, which is actually going to give you more freedom in the long run instead of doing a job that you don't want to do. If you explain all those things to a kid, it's going to be a lot more successful than just, dude, I told you get good grades because I said so. Now, when you do these conferences where you speak at businesses and they bring you in to sort of have these leadership meetings, what would you call them? Yeah, they're leadership seminars.

Seminars. Yeah. Now, when you have these seminars, are these some of the principles that you discuss when you talk about? Absolutely. Yeah? Absolutely. Because that's another big piece of this is that all this ideas about interacting with human beings they just don't change like there's little variants But whether you're dealing with kids or whether you're dealing with adults and whether you're dealing with business people whether you're dealing with soldiers on

the battlefield the leadership principles they don't change and therefore you can whether you're trying to get people to go out and Capture and kill a bad guy or whether you're trying to get them to build some product and sell it the principles of leadership don't change you're still trying to get a bunch of totally independent people right and that's one of the myths we have to overcome a lot because everyone thinks oh in the military ruins just like a robot and that's just not true everybody in the military is free say they're people they're people they're free-thinking people and they're gonna come up

with their own ideas they're gonna have with their own agendas and they going to think of ways to do things that they think are better than yours. So you're going to have all these independent free thinkers. And you've got to get them on board with the same plan to go out and execute. And so it doesn't matter if you're on the battlefield or in business. That's what you're trying to get done. And the leadership principles don't change. To me, as a person who's never been in the military, that's one of the fascinating aspects of how it works. Is like how do you get all these different people to follow through on a

plan and who are the leaders and why do the leaders have the right ideas and who educates them as to how to have the right idea to having the right ideas. Like, I know that a lot of people are excited about where the military is right now. Like Tim Kennedy reenlisted. Yeah. And he, God bless him. Yeah. He reenlisted because he believes that the military is right now. Like Tim Kennedy re-enlisted. Yeah, God bless him. Yeah, he re-enlisted because he believes that the military has support now. And look, Tim Kennedy believes he was put on this earth to kill bad guys. And that's what he wants to do.

I think I agree with Tim Kennedy. I think I agree with him too. For sure. Obviously he enjoys it. I mean, he's not fucking around. I mean, he went back in. He put his money where his mouth is. And in his eyes, that this is the way that it should have been, that you should give the military the chance to do their job.

That's their idea. And then other people believe that there should be much more civilian oversight and there should be much more checks and balances before things get done. This is a big debate that's going on today well i think there's two different things that you just talked about that is what the military gets told to do and how they do it and those are two different things and i i think that yes absolutely the civilians should control and do control the military by the way they do control the civilians are under or the military's under control of civilians. And yet once you say, okay, this is what we want to have happen. You need to let the military professionals figure out how they're going to go and make it happen.

Yeah, that's, that's where it gets tricky, right? Because if you're in that, like one of the things that was explained to me by a friend who's a Navy SEAL. He was saying that when something needs to get done and you have all these people that are telling you how you can do it, how you can't do it, people that are not experiencing combat and don't understand what could or could not go sideways, to put more problems in place or to put more checks and balances in place,

you're actually going to put these people in more danger. That is true. Yeah. You should, like I said, if you let the civilians decide what it is that needs to be accomplished, and then the military leaders decide how they're going to go ahead and make that, that happen. And I mean, it goes back to, it goes back to Vietnam. You know, there was too much civilian oversight of what was happening in Vietnam. You know, there was too much civilian oversight of what was happening in Vietnam. And the military leaders were they didn't really have the the the wherewithal, not even the wherewithal. They didn't have the free reign to go out and try and make things happen the way they wanted to. And it ended up in a big quagmire.

Well, Vietnam seems like to me from an outsider to be one of the most fucked up wars ever. Absolutely. It didn't totally make sense that it was happening. And then now we know that the Gulf of Tonkin was very likely a false flag and that there was some sort of motivation to get there in the first place. And then you're dealing with guerrilla warfare for the first time ever in US history. Like they didn't exactly know how to handle this. No, we didn't. And we didn't adapt very well to what was happening on the ground, which is always going to be problematic. If you have close minded people in the military.

If people are close mind that you're not going to be able to move forward against when the battlefield changes and the battlefield changes all the time. I mean, you can look at Iraq, Iraq, the battlefield changed drastically from this big conventional force that we went up there to fight against Saddam's big army. Well, once that fell apart, then what happened? Now, all of a sudden, we were facing guerrillas again, and an insurgency. And it took us several years to change our strategy from, we didn't even know what to do. Oh, my God, you know, what do we do? There's all these people running around? What do we do with these all these people running around? And how do we get these people under control? And, and the civilians want us here. And and yet, if we don't do the right thing, now, the civilians don't want us here. What do we need to do?

So it took us some time to adjust our strategy in Iraq. And luckily, we had some good leaders that went ahead and made those changes. Isn't it also that when you're in war and the strategy, not the strategy, but the motivation is very clear. Like if you're fighting against Hitler's army in World War II, this is very clear that you're dealing with an evil force. Whereas in Vietnam, it's like, wait a minute, why why are we here like what's going on communism what's happening extremely extremely challenging no doubt and that that is why and you know i've talked about this before if if america or any nation is going to go to war you have to decide that this is the most important thing in the world You have to end the wills that I talked about that you have to have to execute this war

You got to have you got to have the will to kill people and and again, I say this all the time No one wants to hear it because it's ugly and horrible But when you say you're gonna kill people in war, you're not just gonna be able to perfectly kill just the bad guys Civilians are going to die people in war, you're not just going to be able to perfectly kill just the bad guys. Civilians are going to die. It is a nightmare. Kids, women, it's horrible. It's awful.

And if you think, oh, I'm going to go to war and we're just going to kill the bad guys, it's not going to happen. War is too complex. It's just not going to be saying like, hey, I'm going to go and fight in the UFC and I'm not going to get hit. It's not going to happen. You're going to get hit. You're going to get bruised up. You're going to get dinged. And it's the same thing in war. So you have to have the will to kill people. Of course, it's easy to have the will to kill the bad guys, but then you have to accept the fact that some innocent people are going to die. And that is going to be awful. And then on the other side

of the coin is of course, if you're going to send people to war, people, Americans are going to die and there's nothing you can do about it. You have, people, Americans are going to die and there's nothing you can do about it. You have to accept that fact. And you know, that's why Vietnam was just the ultimate tragedy in, in, in many respects, because we were killing a lot of civilians. We were losing a lot of Americans, but we weren't progressing the way we needed to. This is a nightmare. I agree with you a hundred percent. What do you think about transparency? Like when the Bush administration wouldn't let them take photographs of coffins and send them home, like a lot of people are really upset because there's a lot of people that felt like, look, Americans should know that there's a cost to this,

and they should know that there's consequences to these actions. And they were saying that these consequences and knowing about these consequences could lessen morale, could lessen support back at home when they really need it. And the people didn't really need to know this, that what they need to know is we're on the right track and we're doing well. Yeah, that's a tough one. And whether it's the right decision to keep the Americans in their beautiful bubble that they live in and let them know that this war is happening, but you don't have to see the brave Americans coming home that have sacrificed their lives. And interestingly, if you remember, I think it was Tarawa, the battle of Tarawa in World War II. And for the first time, so we were, we needed money to run World War II, a lot of money, war bonds and all that. And we were kind of falling behind and we needed some

money. And one of the first times that they released a lot of pictures of American dead Americans was I think it was the Battle of Tarawa. And there was all these Americans washing up on the beach. I mean, Marines that had drowned and got shot. And it was awful. But they did it for a reason. They did it to show like, hey, this is real. This is happening. We need to put pitch in.

We need money. We need to, you know, save, save meat, save oil. Don't use your cars. We all need to get in for the big win. Right. And that's the opposite of what we're talking about when they're saying, hey, you're not allowed to take pictures of dead Americans that are being killed. I think there should be some level of transparency there when you should, America should see what is happening. What is the cost? Cause it's real easy for Americans to, to sit there and allow these young kids to go overseas and fight and die or be wounded, gravely wounded. And just to shut those, you know, just ignore them. Cause I'm, I don't care cause I'm over here in the mall.

No, maybe we should, uh, maybe we should not only, you know, maybe we should not only show pictures of the coffins that are coming back But maybe we should explore and show the lives that those men sacrificed and who they were and what they did and what their families are like and their wife and kids and mom and dad that They left behind that they gave up and why did they give it up because they believed in freedom And so now we're just gonna say oh, that's not happening

No, it's happening and you need to you need to know it It is kind of strange right when you think about how little access to information people really had back in World War II, they were counting on the news, they were counting on newspapers. And now today we have massive, massive access to information instantaneously, but yet you get less of it when it comes to that. Yeah. And, and in some ways you get more of it. I mean, obviously when there's an incident that happens overseas, you can find out about it on Twitter as fast as you can find out about it through, you know, waiting for a real news source to come up with it. But you don't get anything that's like specifically distributed by the U.S. government to let you know the consequences of a war and say, hey, folks, we need your support. This is what's really going down. These are American citizens. This is what's happening to them over there Yeah, and then the same thing could be said for hey sometimes civilians are gonna get killed and

What do we do? What do we do then? Do we brush that under the rug and we just show the Americans getting killed or do you universally show what's happening? What war is men war is jacked up. I'm here to tell you war is not glorious It is not fun. And it is, it is a horrible, horrible event. And so, yeah, I think you should expose it. And I think you should expose it at a, at a high level so that people understand what we're getting into. And, and as horrible as war is, there's many times throughout history where war is the absolute, in my mind, in my opinion, the right thing thing to do and we don't have a choice and

And we need to do something when when horrible things are happening and and you know I think that's you know on my podcast I talk about like the like I said I talk about war and death and horrible genocide and and that's one of the reasons why I Think it's it's gotten a lot of traction is because I'm talking about things that are otherwise being ignored And I think people do want to know I think people do want to understand war to deeper level So that way when they hear a politician up there saying hey, we should go to war They can at least say to themselves. I know what I know what he's talking about and he's not just talking about Hey, we're gonna wave the flag. We're gonna send some soldiers over there gonna kick ass. They're gonna come home

We're gonna high-five. That's not what war is and let's not ever forget that that's not what war is war is a man and another man on a battlefield surrounded by peopled civilians and they're trying to kill each other and it's a bloodbath and we we shouldn't forget that and is it necessary sometimes it absolutely is it absolutely is. It absolutely is necessary sometimes, but we better weigh our, our minds heavily before we make that decision to go and execute. Now, when you think about the evolution of human beings, you think about how much safer it is today versus how it was thousands of years ago. Do you ever foresee a time where war won't exist? I don't know. You know, people joke with me a lot about the robot

wars and, and robots being able to accomplish wars. I actually believe that thing will come. I mean, we've got drones right now that, that are very capable. Pretty soon we'll have land warfare robots that will be able to go in and clear buildings and make things happen. And then will the enemy then have robots that will fight our robots at some point yeah and then at some point will that elevate to a point where we're not dealing with physical robots anymore but just the software behind the robots and now it's just a big sort of cyber warfare that that is that seems conceivable to me now joe don't mistake me for some kind of like a Sam Harris intellectual over here,

or that I'm going to sit here and explain to you what the future of, you know, warfare from a technical perspective, but from my, from my rudimentary thought process, could it not elevate to a point where we have robots fighting robots? And then that eventually escalates to a point where it's some kind of cyber warfare where it's not physical, but it's just information based. That does make sense to me that that could happen. Yeah, it makes sense to me, too, especially when you see those Boston Dynamic robots. Have you seen those things? You kick them over.

They bounce back up. They run up hills. They can run like 60 miles an hour. They're freaks. I mean, it's really. And what they're doing now is just I mean, who knows where they're going to be 10 years from now? I mean, they're going to be solar powered. The, they're able to live out there with no food. Yeah. It'll be awesome. And then, and then, then where will we go? Will those robots fight people for a while? Probably people that don't

know any people that don't, the people that don't have good robots yet. Yeah. And that's not going to be fun for the people without robots right and We'll see where it goes from there. I mean, I think that's just a surrender scenario, right if you got a If let's say America has these robots that can just come in with ruthless Precision and take out bad guys and you know, you're gonna be at their mercy There's a fucking science fiction movie right like China develops robots that take over new york city yeah like look at this goddamn thing yeah it's one of these boss dynamic robots it's just it's so weird man to see them moving around yeah and what's interesting i've seen some other ones like you don't need they put all this effort into making it actually walk instead of have you

know wheels or tracks or whatever the you know wheels or tracks with little pods that could get over things would Be they want this to look like for a person for some reason a human Shape is not necessarily the most effective. You know structure for fighting It's not even good for us right yeah, barely. Yeah, I mean what's one of the reason why our backs are so fucked up Yeah, you know you can't even talk us into standing up straight. I can pick up 10 pounds. Okay, that's a big deal. I'm better than that.

Yeah. Fuck this robot. Someday, though. It's just we like things that look like us for whatever reason. We like the idea that this thing is going to look like us. But, yeah, I agree with you. It doesn't need to. It's probably not the best design.

The real combat robots probably won't look like they won't be bipedal. Is that a word? Yeah, bipedal. They won't be bipedal. They'll probably have little treads or something and just haul ass at 60 miles an hour with a machine gun. Or they'll have many legs. What was that one that was like a cheetah? There's some crazy one that's like a cheetah and it runs at some fucking ridiculous speed.

And it's terrifying. They had one that was on a treadmill. Is this the cheetah one? I think so. It's called a cheetah and it runs at some fucking ridiculous speed and it's terrifying they had one that was on a treadmill Is this the cheetah one? It's obviously not the best Galloping it's not the best structure because you have to make this thing up and run Whereas right wheels on it or treads or something like a tank a mini tank. Yeah But I wonder like for getting over logs and stuff like that if there's any sort of benefit They also have those ones that leap up in the air and they go over there go over the top of walls and shit

Yeah, that's what you need is some kind of a legs that can pop out if they need to yeah Maybe we should just design this thing and take over there you go. Here's one wheels Yeah, see that's got that's good the best of both. Yeah, that one's fucking terrifying that one's got front legs and it's got back wheels Yeah, they're not fucking playing games didn't Google buy them in that Google Skynet that's what we should be careful of yeah, Google is powerful goddamn The big announcement they made this week about their Google. I owe Assistant AI stuff is pretty crazy, too. I don't know a bunch of the information, so I can't tell you.

Just look it up. People are getting scared. This is like the Google Siri type thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. This is for the new Pixel phone? Yep, yep. They made a bunch of extra announcements on top of that too.

What's supposed to be significant? Whoa, did you see that thing jump over a fucking... Look at this. Yeah, see, that's the thing you gotta watch out for. Fuck that thing. See, without even knowing it, I was saying wheels and legs. Whoa, it's perfect. There you go.

But that thing, rewind that a little bit. Watch it go over the wall. It jumps over a wall. Look a little bit before that. Yeah, watch this. Watch what this fucking thing can do, man. After it does this, it goes down these stairs, and then it gets to, I mean, it gets to this wall, like a hurdle, and it fucking gets to this wall, like a hurdle.

And it fucking bounces over this hurdle like it's nothing. There's snow. Doesn't matter. Grass doesn't matter. Yeah, as long as it doesn't break one of those stupid wheels. The problem is, what are those wheels made out of? You shoot one of those wheels, that thing's fucked. But look at this.

Boing! Bounces right over that. No problem. Tucks its legs. It looks terrifying. Yeah. And then cover it in some creepy fucking fucking fake skin like an alien you know yeah, and then you'd put sensors on it You know thermal sensors and night vision sensors, and you wouldn't be able to get away from it

Yeah, you know what you down and kill you I mean just think about that technology and then add that Tesla technology for self-driving cars and knows where all the cars are and everything that Tesla technology for self-driving cars and knows where all the cars are and everything. We're just a few years away from something very, very bizarre. Yeah. Again, I kind of look forward to it. Bring on the robots. I want to fight them.

I'll go down in a blaze of glory. Yeah, that's like Duke Nukem style. Ripping out battery cords and trying to take their lives. Yeah, Arnold Schwarzenegger in Terminator. It's funny because when that Google assistant can see and understand the world around you, what? They built that Google Lens thing that used to be existing, and they took it away. It's kind of just built into the new phone. What was Google Lens?

The thing you tried. The sunglasses? No, you mean Google Glasses. Glasses, yeah. Google Lens is that thing that translates the world. It translates languages. They just kind of put all that data into this, and so now it's on that phone, and everyone will have it that has the new pixel.

So what does it do? It's doing a bunch. As far as I know right now, it's a bunch of AI information, so it's looking at barcodes and QR codes all over the place, and you don't even have to have a really good version of it. You can do it from far away, and it can read it. It can be really low pixelated. I'm not saying the right word. I'm losing the word.

Resolution? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Low resolution. You can have low resolution. It can pick it up from far away too. Off the TV. So that's cool and everything, but what is barcode? Why do you need to read barcodes? Somebody tell me. Well, I know one thing it's the new pixel is supposed to do. Like, say if you have like this Stevia and you went, oh, I want to get this.

It's got a little barcode. You put your phone up to it. It'll show you a link on Amazon, and you can one-click it just like that. Right, right, right. So that's one good thing that it does for the barcodes. It can compare prices in stores. It's saying automatically whether it's using Amazon and they'll block that. So basically we're moving into the ultimate age of consumerism.

Yeah. I want to buy this now! It's just a step up in instantaneous purchasing. But as far as reading the world around you, what else is it doing? I mean, I think you have

to hold it up to see it. So right here it says you can aim it at a flower and it will identify the species. Whoa. You can pull up a band's music or videos by pointing the lens at a concert poster. Whoa. So right now, a band's music or videos by pointing the lens at a concert poster.

Whoa. So, like, right now, there's something that popped up on Apple's phone recently that people don't really know because it's hard to see. Like, if I type in your name, Joe, it gets underlined. And if you click that, a whole bunch of information pops up and leads to, like, all of your things on Apple Music. It leads to your web page. Wow. It's like a little Siri assistant thing, but it hasn, it hasn't been advertised and it's not really, it doesn't work for every person's name.

Like it might not work for Jocko willing, but it will work for Joe Rogan. And it might in the future if they update it, or I don't know who needs to update it, but it's kind of, it's cool too. This is an updated version of that, I believe.

And just to bring this conversation back to where we were, the further we go in this direction of Technology being in every part of our lives the further away we get from having to struggle with things and the bigger hole there's gonna be in the hole that you sense and I sense which is if you're not struggling if you're not working you for Not fighting for something That's just gonna go further and further into the past and further and further down and people can have that hole to fill up somehow Yeah, the physical body needs it has requirements it is a stress requirements and if you I always do the way I talk about it's like a battery and like

Almost like but not a conventional battery the way we think of us but almost like a storage vessel for energy And then if you don't do anything with that energy it sort of oozes over the side and fucking battery acid crust the outside of it like it gets all fucked up but if you just keep pumping out energy you keep doing something it maintains some sort of homeostasis it maintains some sort of a balance point it had maintained some sort of a operational happiness like where the body's not fighting against itself because i think that a lot of people's bodies are just fighting against them and a lot of like the way the decisions they're making it's a big of it a big part of

it is just not taking care of their meat vehicle so they're getting all this confusing messages from the flesh yeah i i mean we see that every day when you walk around America and you see people that are just, you wonder how much longer they're going to be able to survive and what happens if they, if there's a fire and they have to run, they're not going to make it around the corner. Dude, go to Disneyland. Everybody's on a scooter. It's weird. It's so weird.

And I have a friend who works at Disneyland and he was telling me like he started working there ten years ago It was rare to see someone on a scooter and now they're all on scooters And they're not on scooters cuz they got a broken leg there are they're old They're on scooters because they've eaten themselves into this unmanageable shape Well again even five years ago if you wanted to eat yourself in a miserable shape You had to walk to the grocery store to do that, which was at least some form of movement. And now you just one click on Amazon and you got the Cheetos in ultra large size showing up at your front door in two hours. And they're going to come in a drone soon.

Yeah. And by the way, you can just be like Cheetos and then it'll put you up the other things that you will probably want to, you want Cheetos, you probably want two liters of Coke and you probably want some marshmallows to go with that. And there you go. Two hours. It's there. You're just killing yourself. What the fuck, man?

Like, when is this going to end? I wonder when they're going to be able to figure out a way to compensate for all the shit that like just some sort of a pill that figures out or even CRISPR. I was, I was listening to this radio lab podcast where they're updating CRISPR where, do you know what CRISPR is? It's a new tool that they have that they're using to modify genes and they, uh, they've only figured it out over the last few years and apparently they've already started doing work on non-viable fetuses in China with this

That's what they say who knows whether what by the time they say that my thought is the guy telling you is probably some fucking fake Person by then you know by the time it actually gets to the news who knows what kind of crazy advancements They're making you know behind the Iron Curtain or the is there nine curtain anymore Well, there's China and there's definitely some things going on in China for sure They're doing some dark shit. Yeah with people in this goddamn technology But they think that they're not only going to be able to use this gene editing tool But they're going to be able to implant this gene editing tool into our genetics So that your own genes start doing the work of CRISPR for you

So things like there they think that's gonna take the work of CRISPR for you. So things like they think that's going to take the place of antibiotics. They think it's going to be able to edit out things like Alzheimer's, like whatever the gene is for Alzheimer's, they'll be able to edit that out. So Alzheimer's will no longer exist. It's going to be really, really strange because people are going to have to make decisions. Yeah. And I think this stuff is going to come quickly. Once it, like once we turn the corner, it seems like it's going to come fast. Oh, it's gonna come real fast And there's gonna be some weird mutations that happen in there, too Yeah, there's gonna be people like the Hulk. Yeah

There's gonna be some people that have one eye and two heads and just gonna be all jacked up and they're gonna what do we? Do those people right the ones that didn't like you got that it didn't work, right Tijuana. It's crisper job So it's crisPR a pill? No, it's some sort of a gene editing tool. I don't know the actual mechanism behind it. I don't understand it. I've only listened to people talk about it and read things on it. And then how far away is immortality from that?

Because once you can eliminate all these different diseases. Yeah, I think like 100 years. And I always thought if you could just clone your body and then you let your body grow to be 20 years old then you just take your brain out put it inside that new body then you're good to go i think it's going to be even creepier than that i think they're going to be able to turn back the clock because i think that when you think about like cellular aging like well what is it your body's not reproducing you know every cell in your body except for your neurons reproduces like somewhere between every three to seven years or something like that.

Your neurons are the only things that you keep for the whole life. And so what they're thinking is that as time goes on, your cells reproduce shittier and shittier. Your telomeres shrink. Okay. It doesn't do well. They'll be able to flip that around so that as time goes on you'll be like Benjamin Buttons You'll start getting younger and younger which would be really weird if they fuck it up and you start turning into a baby You know you're like some 50 year old and then all sudden you like dude. I'm 12 again like this is not good next year

I'm gonna be 11 You know like if it goes backwards in that direction if they can literally halt it like if they can take you and then like Say if you're a 40 year old woman, and they put you on a 20-year program And they're like well in 20 years instead of being 60 you're gonna be 20 And this is how it's gonna work next year. You're gonna be 39 next that's totally conceivable That's totally conceivable totally a hundred percent conceivable Possible and likely yeah Yeah, then then that immortality thing isn't that far away then the only thing that's gonna

Fuck you up is accidents and murder and you know shit like that and then roids is life become more precious Then because now you're thinking hey I don't want to go skydiving because I could actually live for thousands of years if I don't screw this up I think more likely you're gonna see a lot more parkour and those assholes that are doing backflips off the Grand Canyon, like that kind of shit. You're going to see more people that are wanting to feel alive by taking crazy risks. Those Russian dudes, though? Well, I had James Kingston on the podcast.

He's that crazy asshole from England. Great kid. But he does backflips on the top of fucking buildings in Dubai and shit. Like, what are you doing, man? Yeah, you posted one of those the other day. You said something like, you know, I don't know how you wrote it, but you said something like, and I watched it and I was like, my sentiments exactly. That is jacked up.

There was one just a couple of days ago. These guys released it. They were on the Golden Gate Bridge. I didn't even watch it. Did you see it, Jamie? I wouldn't even watch it. They're like, daredevils. We're on the Golden Gate Bridge.

But you see them on the very top of the Golden Gate Bridge doing some silly shit, hanging off the edge like. Yeah. I did some dumb stuff when I was younger. I did some rock climbing without ropes. Not any Alex Honnold stuff, but where I would definitely definitely get injured if I fell that was just being young and stupid I remember one time we were I was on a ship out in the middle of the Navy ship out in the middle the ocean somewhere I was in a SEAL platoon somewhere and

Me and one of my buddies we were doing pull-ups off the side of the ship at night on a little cable Oh Jesus and you know if that cable breaks or if we slip off and fall you're a hundred percent gonna die But we were doing it anyways because we were just young and stupid wow you want to feel the juice Yeah, just a juice pre-war you know there's no war going on. How do we prove to our buddies that we are? Brave and badass you do stupid stuff dumb stuff Stupid stuff dumb stuff What does that rush like yeah, it's got to be a crazy rush right no one that you can't let go yeah It's just dumb you know, but what do you do when you're whatever 23 years old? There's something that like particularly in the human brain

There's something that resonates about hanging from something by your hands. Like that's one of the scariest ones. Like Kingston is on this gigantic crane and he's hanging on to the crane with his hands. And then he does it with one hand. He's hanging there and he's fucking hundreds of feet up. And if he falls, he's just splatter. He's just a water balloon. But there's something about, for some some reason like balancing is scary but hanging is

really scary i'm the opposite really balance is scarier than hanging i'd rather hang i feel pretty pretty good hanging we got a good grip yeah i don't do a lot of chin-ups i don't feel good about the the balancing because i think you know i could trip and fall that's it what's the life expectancy of kingston not so good i mean he knows that right yeah he's got to know that he's a smart guy too which is really weird and really calm okay look at these fucking assholes oh jesus christ oh my god this guy folks if you're listening this guy has a skateboard and he is on a uh a beam like, what? A couple thousand feet in the fucking air? Holy shit, it's terrifying.

I mean, how many of these guys die? It's not that many. That's what's weird about it. I saw a video of one guy frapping in. Oh, really? Yeah, he didn't make it. Where was this? I don't know.

Somewhere in Russia, of course. What was he doing? Doing this. Walking around up on some high area. Oh, Jesus Christ. This kid is... Oh, Jesus. Oh. What was he doing doing this walking around up on some high area? This kid is Get they get right to the edge with skateboards look barefoot what the fuck dude yeah, what is that? Did you talk to him about how he?

How he built into this did he start at 20 feet and then he went to 30 feet and then he got more confident? No, I don't think so. I think he just started doing it. Or he just didn't have the fear gene? Well, he's just a smart guy. He's a weird guy because you meet him, you're expecting like,

I'm going to talk to this methed out psychopath who just wants to just get a juice rush all day long. No, he's super calm and relaxed and normal. It's weird. It doesn't make any sense. But where did it start for him? I don't know. Yeah.

I don't know. He's got a normal family. Seems healthy. Yeah, he just likes it. People are weird, aren't they? They're weird. Yeah. I mean, Alex, you had Alex Honnold on.

And, you know, my family, we go up to Yosemite and stuff, so we are familiar. But you can see how he kind of edged into it right start climbing and you got ropes And then you get really good at it And then you're like you know what I can probably make it to there without a rope and then next thing you know you're probably Make it there too, and then the next thing you know you're climbing You know El Capitan with no rope or half tone with no rope which is completely been you know somebody yeah Completely insane to even think about that though He does some insane stuff where you're going backwards

Like you're at a reverse degree, you know, like 15 degrees the wrong way Yeah, like any climbs up it to go above it and he's got no ropes and he's just hanging on with his hands It's like what the fuck dude. Yeah, he was telling us a story about one time where he's halfway up the mountain He realized he forgot his powder So he ran into some other people that were up there that were on ropes He said hey, can I borrow your powder like you don't need powder? Yeah, borrow a patent left the powder bag at the top of the mountain like Yeah, and I heard him talking about it that he

For him It's not a big deal because he knows how strong he is and he knows what his limitations are so it doesn't for it it's like He's comfortable. It's like, he's comfortable with it, right? He's comfortable. It's like, you know, someone walking on a balance beam that does it all the time. They're going to be comfortable with it and he's climbing stuff all the time. So he's more comfortable. It's still hard to get a grip on though. It's hard to get a grip. You know, when I was hosting fear factor, we had this one thing that we did where, uh, we had people hang from a pole that was suspended over this water.

And it was shocking how the little amount of time, the small amount of time that men in particular could hang from a pole. They were like a minute in. These guys were dropping into the water. And I was like, what the fuck? Women want it. Really? Yeah, women want it because they have their they have lighter bodies so even though their hands might be weaker like and one guy was fucking jacked

he was like this football player looking dude oh yeah and he didn't make it man he was like a minute and 15 in plopping into the water i was like this is crazy yeah i had i had a guy in my my seal training class that was a big giant monster guy and he couldn't complete the obstacle course no you know too many hand strengths there's too much too much mass behind you that you're asking was a big, giant monster guy, and he couldn't complete the obstacle course. No. You know, didn't have the hand strength. There's too much mass behind you that you're asking small limbs or small digits to control, and then also too much of your heart has got to pump too much blood through that tissue.

There's like a point of diminishing returns when it comes to size. Yeah. You know, and that's one of the things that you saw when you'd see Cain Velasquez fight guys. Cain Velasquez has always been in that sweet spot of about 240 240 to me is about as big as you want to get because the guys over 240 man they might fuck you up in the first few minutes but you take them into that fourth and fifth minute of the first round then they're huffing and puffing and the second round they're getting their asses kicked

and the Cain Velasquez storm was the one of the more fascinating things to watch in all my years of the ufc because he was a heavyweight that had the cardio of a lightweight yeah but he was again 240 pounds a well well marbled 240 pounds he's not like he was a lean no he had some he always looks a little bit he had a lot of mexican food yeah he had some he always looks a little bit Rice and beans on it lunch you like for real like you like one of the elite heavyweights ever Yeah, and he's sitting there with fucking ten tacos and shit And you know that's a talent to the having that kind of sustained energy is a talent Just like some guys are super flexible and some guys are super strong and explosive and some guys just have that they could they have that range and and what is its medium twitch muscles

right it's medium twitch slow to it yeah well know that there's there's slow twitch which is I'm a marathoner right and then there's fast which was I'm an Olympic weightlifter but in recent years they've said there's actually something in the middle medium twitch which is I'm strong but I can go for a long time that's interesting I didn't know about that but it makes sense and that's what a guy like kane is because kane like you said i mean for him to be able to get in there and go five rounds pushing away pushing around another guy that weighs 260 pounds yeah that's beast mode right there there's a lot going on with kane i think one thing is going on is genetics he has incredible genetics and they like um bob cook

would tell me that kane would be out for months like get an injury and come back and just outwork everybody like you just have insane cardio so maybe it's also that his base was so rock solid that his out of shape for three months is everybody else's you know peak condition and it's one of the reasons why he was able to overwhelm so many people but also like when you see cane execute things he he's never straining. Like Kane, everything is perfect technique. There's no like grunting and forcing anything. There's no like crazy looks on his face and like windmill punches. Everything is clean and crisp and it's all like very efficient. Efficient movements.

He's a machine and obviously that comes from training hard. And is that training hard too hard? Has he been trained too hard? Is that why he's all dinged up and yeah some fights because of injuries? Well, there's also like the mind like his mind is so strong that he's able to overcome the feeling of pain But sometimes like elite athletes, especially fighters. They can't distinguish between what is just like dings like everybody gets dinged up But something that's a significant injury. Like, hey, you've got a compromise in the structure of your body.

If you keep pushing it, you're going to blow this knee out. You're going to fuck this disc up. You're going to need surgery. And Kane's had a gang of surgeries now. Shoulder, knees, back. And now, you know, he's been out for quite a while with this most recent back issue. It sucks because, in my opinion, it's like him and Fedor. You know, those are the two greatest heavyweights of all time.

Interestingly, same, similar body style. Yeah, yeah. 230, 240, well-marbled. Yeah. Yeah, Fedor at his peak had, like, the ultimate dad bod. He had, like, a dad that used to play rugby, you know? But fuck guys up. They'd post those videos, though, of him training in Russia, running with his buddies and swinging kettlebells.

And you're like, yeah, this guy works hard. Oh, yeah. Hard. No doubt. He just probably ate shitty food. Yeah, just ate tons of it, you know? But it's also like their methodology is just different. I mean, he was like very, very old school with his methods.

Like, he was doing kettlebells but way before crossfit or anything came to america i mean there was an there's an old school picture see if you could find jamie back when he was jacked like he he got smaller as his career went on because he stopped doing strength and conditioning as his body got older and focused more on uh skill work but there's this ancient picture not ancient but there's a picture of him standing there shirtless Around a bunch of kettlebells kettlebells. Yeah. Yeah 2001 or something like that, you know, yeah, and the thing that I think that he really had was he had a good His skill in my mind was that he was really good grappler. He's a really good striker

But he the way he mixed them together Yeah my mind was that he was really good grappler he's a really good striker but he the way he mixed them together yeah you would see him just like hit somebody in the face and then judo throw him and then arm lock him or choke him and it was all just so smooth i don't think anyone knew what to defend because if they defended one thing they were getting if they defended it a grappling move they were getting punched in the face if they defended a punt they were getting taken down yeah he was something special man and you know he was something special for quite a long time, too I don't I don't think anybody can keep going longer than like There's like a time that you can compete at the highest level some folks think it's about eight nine years

They're like and after eight nine years the highest level like nobody's body holds up He just all falls apart and you know as much as I'm talking good about Fedor and his style and everything Let's face it. What'm talking good about Fedor and his style and everything let's face it What was the best about Fedor? Was his attitude when he would just come in there with no emotions as they raise his hand dead face You know they'd introduce him he just raised his hand he'd destroy someone and he would have the same Expressions face like before he fought he just had total Absence of emotion that was to me, that's what I always thought, yes.

That's why Fedor's right up there at the top of my list. Yeah, there's the picture. Exactly. Just jacked, standing around a bunch of fucking iron cannonballs with handles on them. And those aren't some little kettlebells either. Yeah, I bet that picture alone must have sold millions of dollars in kettlebells.

People saw that picture and they're like, I gotta gotta get some man, but he also was very smart. That's his brother actually Yeah, he was very smart with his training where you know he spent some time in Holland That's him and his brother like way back in the day to picture of his brother now get a picture of Alexander He just got out of jail. Yeah, I don't know if he's gonna fight again. His brother was a bad motherfucker Yeah, he was he's an animal He's got the there's something about Russians man for sure. They're a different kind of white people They totally different. They just did so much different. Well, it's the hard upbringing. Oh, yeah

diamonds Diamonds made out of pressure and the other guy that comes to mind when we're thinking about old school fighters that really it wasn't just his skill set which was unbelievable but sakuraba because the way sakuraba his craziness oh yeah and just to go in there and just have that incredibly playful attitude also chain smoked and drank through this entire camp chain smoked and drank yeah i went out with him in in Japan after one of his fights one time. Really? What'd he do? He was just getting after it.

But that attitude of not giving a fuck is like that's what worked so well for him inside the ring. Yeah, well, I know we see this all the time with fighters. We see it with anybody that is going to live out on the fringe like that. They're going to have some sort of offset. There's another's for every action

There's an equal and opposite reaction, right? So you get a guy that's living that far on the edge like like Sakuraba was that edge just doesn't stop when he gets out of the cage, right? He's going and gonna get after it more He had some horrible losses though He got he got You know used and an exploited worse than anyone else right i mean worse than any other fighter no one has been exploited and put into those horrible fights where he just wasn't out and he was just outmatched he was old he wasn't trained right and they would

just put him in there and just let him get destroyed. Well, his knees were mangled. So he would wrap his knees up like a mummy. Yeah. They were horrible. And you knew that that was a real injury. Like he had, like he couldn't move so good. His knees were all wrapped up and fucked up. And then they put him in there with Vanderlei. And Vanderlei knocked him out, what, three times?

Brutal, brutal KOs. I think at least twice. I'm trying to think if it's two or three times. But, and then melvin manhoof and he was soccer kicking him because you could soccer kick and pride and stomp yeah he he had some really tough fights he's apparently doing a grappling super fight now i think he's grappling he grappled benzo yeah that's right that's right yeah i was thinking of uh you know what i was actually thinking of shinya aoki is gonna grapple with Gary Tonin. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they're gonna have a straight-up grappling

Yeah, the Gary's gonna fuck him up most likely but Aoki's good man But it's a big difference between guys who are good in MMA and guys who are good at like straight-up grappling and in the training Vids of Gary. Oh, yeah, just like he's just training all he does he's completely obsessed with jujitsu i love it yeah and he's doing rope climbs and he's just that's all he does well he's also uh being coached by john donahue and he's a part of that henzo gracie crew in new york city and that donahue death squad man you want to talk about a a real like wizard of jujitsu donahue understand his Instagram posts are some of the very best Instagram posts on the internet I even I got a phone one then oh you got it man his breakdowns of certain techniques and matches and what went well what?

Went wrong what's required of athletes and and how to excel and the difference between an athlete in competition versus a difference in training That's one of his most recent things about putting yourself in bad positions and working on your weaknesses? As opposed to just continuing to push your strengths. Yeah, well, that's a big one though The fighters that are good in training, but they're not good in their cage And there's other fighters that are kind of get beat up in training But then when they get in the cage they they rise to the occasion Yeah I mean I got to see that a bunch with a bunch of different fighters over the years that I trained with and you'd say

This guy's gonna do okay, but then they'd get in the they'd get in the cage and boom They would just turn it on they elevate themselves and then some guys that are crushing everyone during training They get in the cage and you know UFC fight night or whatever and just they just can't They can't get it done that night, even though they're crushing people in the training Yeah, there's so many factors right and I think some of them are also the ability to overcome adversity and with really talented guys, they didn't really have to overcome that much adversity because they were good really quickly. Like guys who had massive physical advantages. Yeah. And then for some reason, you know, once they faced other people that also have physical advantages, but were tougher, they would just go, they just fall apart. They just wilt. Yeah. Yeah. It's so common.

Yeah. You got to get that. And, and, and we got some guys at the, this guy at the gym right now, who's just, he's just a, he's a mutant. He's a mutant. Like he's so strong. He, I, what was it? He shot on me the other day. I sprawled on him. And so he's on all fours, and he's a he fights at 185 I'm on all fours and he picks me up with one hand with one hand picks me up and slams me and gets across side and I said bro. Did you just like shot put me right there? And he's a hundred and eighty-five once you walk around that he walks around a 200 205 You know typical with one hand one hand, but not with his back, but like with his arm.

You're going to see him. Taylor Johnson, watch out for him. What is his background? He wrestled. He wrestled. But this is the thing. We know this, right? There's wrestlers that are great wrestlers, and they're okay at jiu-jitsu, but they can't quite make that transition.

And their striking's okay, but they can't quite make that transition. For whatever reason, whatever. He's got he So the other day we were training and he's been training. This was a few months ago He's been training for like six months right and he dives for a camera on me And I you know I move and get out and you know we keep training whatever and we get done He goes man. You know I just I can't lock anything up on you I just can't I can't I can't get any finishes on you and i was like bro you've been training for six months there's guys have been training here for 10 years that have never even attempted a submission

on me and you're trying to submit me with my own move the chimera yeah i'm like bro don't worry about it it's gonna come so yeah it's it but my point is with him is he's an incredible athlete and he's got that work ethic too yeah so and he's competed a high level in wrestling you know he's an all-american wrestler i think d2 though but you know nonetheless he's savage yeah people there's the ability to compete it's a it's an interesting ability like some people just don't have it or they wore it's not even that they don't have it They lack the mental skills to overcome pressure filled obstacles Yeah, and you're right and there's some people that step up when that happens Yeah, and can you train to do that? I think you can think you can I think you think you can you inoculate yourself to the

Stress it's just the mind so like you like the idea that these pitfalls in the mind are insurmountable I think that's ridiculous. That seems to be more surmountable or more passable than physical problems. Because like physical problems, like if you're 140 pounds and a guy's 240 pounds, you're both equally talented and both equally driven. Boy, you're fucked. You're kind of fucked. Yeah. Talented and both equally driven boy. You're fucked. You're kind of fucked. Yeah

Well that being said it is similar to what we talked about earlier Which is when you have somebody that's caught in their own mind. They can't get the perspective to step out Yeah, like dude just calm down. Just right there's nothing to freak out about. Yeah, you're gonna go in there What if I lose if you lose it's no big deal. We'll get around it. We'll train more It's no big deal They can't get over that and so you do get people that get trapped in their minds and I mean There's all kinds of fighters that have gone through that never came out of it well there's a really important quote if you win you win if you lose you learn yeah and so you always win and if you really can think about it that way every time you know i remember pretty

much every time i've ever been humiliated on the mat every time i've ever been like really man handled and tapped i remember them very well and i also remember like every time I've ever been like really manhandled and tapped I remember them very well And I also remember like every time I rolled with like a real high-level black belt got my ass handed to me My training jumped up a notch because like you know It's that expression the rub like you train with someone who's way better you know you realize like oh There's a whatever I thought was like a high frequency There's people that are operating like several hundred RPMs faster than that. And I just hadn't encountered them, you know? And I think that to be around that is so important. If you ever train with a guy that like trains in a small town

and, uh, all the people in the town is like maybe like a purple belt coaches and they, they have like a, there's a certain RPM that they all operate in. And if you come in and you're used to that fucking San Diego assassin RPM and they like, what the fuck is this guy doing? Like they're just not used to it. They have, or, but if you come from a place like that and you try to train in Henzo's or something like that, like you're dealing, you're jumping into a fucking pit of killers. Like, and that's, you know, that old expression, iron sharpens iron could not be more true when it comes to jiu-jitsu Yeah, well, there's no doubt the better people you train with the better you're gonna get and you got to seek those people out

You know, you gotta not mind. Hey that guy Taylor that I'm talking about Dude, do I like getting my ass kicked by a guy that's been training for six months? No, I hate it I hate it Taylor, but guess what? I call him out every time every time you know and i talk smack to him i don't talk a bunch of smack i talk smack to him i'm like hey what's up young buck you want to come get some of this every day because i want to train with him because he's that strong and i mean of course i'm training with dean i'm training with jeffy glover i train with those guys too but you got the young buck that wants to get after it a little bit more yeah well also there's something about freak wrestling strength that's just it doesn't make any sense.

I've rolled with some wrestlers before. I'm like, okay, whatever you are, there's people, and then there's like chimp people. You're like a chimp person. You know, like they have, like when your body is used to from the time you're an early kid, throwing bodies around, like your tendon strength and your ability bodies. It's a very different kind of strength I mean it might not translate to a 40-yard dash or or Sprints or you know lifting weights, but there's the physical ability to move bodies is very unusual Yeah, and there's them you always have to be careful too because there's been plenty of wrestlers along the way that don't do

Well in MMA. Oh, yeah Just they're great. They're strong, but I think that's a mental thing I think they have like some limited factor in their brain where they go. They just can't quite open their mind to jiu-jitsu They can't quite open their mind to striking. They can't get out of that wrestler Mentality of you know this I have to go as hard as I can right now because in MMA You can't go as hard as you can right now for the whole time. You will run out of gas. Especially with striking.

If you're, if you're boxing and sparring with people and you think you're just going to go in and do that, you're going to run into somebody who actually knows how to box and you're going to come home with headaches every night and you're going to get very discouraged. Yeah. It's a matter of who you're training with too. Like as far as your trainers, like who's, who's coaching you and what methodology are they using and what, what mindset are they trying to impart on you as far as like skill development? Cause there's so many people out there that just don't have like a real clear

philosophy. Like they don't have a goal, like in terms of like, I want to work on footwork and avoiding certain shots and being able to move in better. Instead, they're just trying to win every round or they're trying to push hard. And then do you not get to the next level, which in my mind, when we get past the athleticism, we get past the mental overcoming of challenges, and then, in my opinion, you get to the next level, which is creativity.

Yeah. And that's when you get to McGregor. Right. Johnny Bones Jones. They're doing things that they're kind of making up. Yeah. And they're making them up live as they go. And I think that to me is, you know, we kind of, I think we saw it with BJ Penn back in the day.

He was creative. I think Fedor did it where he was doing creative things. Or did it where he was he was doing creative things, but I think to me That's that's where you go that one level higher is when you add the creative element to a guy that can take a And B and make F out of those things somehow Yeah, and and when you watch those guys There's something about watching a John Jones or a fade or a primetime BJ Penn It elevates you you watch someone do something special like that and you just walk out of there. You feel like, I know I can run faster than I could before I saw that fight.

I know I could lift more weights. I know I could do something better. I think this is a huge thing, one of the reasons why people enjoy watching all kinds of sports, but in particular combat sports. When people do something amazing, it makes you feel like amazing things are possible. Yeah. I actually, I have limitations on that too, because personally I'll watch somebody, you know, some random fighter or whatever. And I'll say, I could, I could probably do that. You know what I mean? Like I'm, I'm, I could do that. A lot of guys are good fighter, but I could, yeah, I'm good at jujitsu. I'm a pretty good striker. I could do that. And then occasionally I see a guy and I go, no, you know what I mean? Like I could do that. I was a good fighter, but I could, yeah, I'm good at jujitsu. I'm a pretty good striker. I could do that.

And then occasionally I see a guy and I go, no, you know what? I could not do what that guy can do. And it just makes me, it's, it's humbling. I think it's humbling. I was wanting, you know, Jack Black, right? Sure. Jack Black. I was watching Jack Black the other day.

And, you know, I look at Jack Black. I look at some, I look at some actor, right? I look I look at Brad Pitt and I go what's what's Brad Pitt doing I could do what he's doing he's talking on the movie screen whatever I know I'm underestimating this right but that's what I'm thinking like right you know I could do that but I was I was watching Jack Black and Jack Black was singing and I was like I can't do it Jack Black's doing right there respect and props to Jack Black. The homeboy's got pipes. He's got pipes.

And I look at the same time, I look at, you know, at Johnny Bones Jones. And I go, I wouldn't have done what he just did. I look at McGregor and I go, you know what? He's got some little spark that I don't have. He's got a flair. Yeah. Yeah. There's a flair that McGregor has that's half of what he does.

I mean, he's unbelievably talented. He's got ridiculous power. But there's also this flair about him when he fucking walks in there flinging his arms. And then he stands there in front of his opponent and goes like that. There's something about him. Yeah. The fucking audaciousness of of his you know he's just so ridiculous but it really impressed me when he came back and beat nate but fuck you really

impressed and i thought it was a very close fight i actually and i'll have to watch it again i don't i usually don't watch fights more than once but i know it was very very close nate could have won that fight yeah i thought yeah i thought so too but didn't. And even just as close as it was, I was impressed. And that was, I think, one of the most impressive feats I've seen as far as that mental game we're talking about. Yeah. To come back and say, you know what, I'm going to do it this time. That he even wanted to come back. Yeah, at 170 again.

That was at 170, right? Yeah. The second fight was too. Yes, it was. Impressive. It was very impressive. You know, a lot of people don't know that he had a pretty bad staph infection just a few weeks before the first fight And he was on some serious

Antibiotics and that's one of the reasons why he was so drained like people like oh he cast out like if you've never taken Antibiotics before you don't know how fucking horrible it is on your gas tank It's one of the it's the weirdest thing ever so you could be in great shape you get on a run of antibiotics And your body's just you got a fucking thimble gas tank. There's nothing left. You got no energy for whatever reason. You just can't push yourself through stuff. And I think that played a factor in that fight. And here's the thing about McGregor. You never heard a fucking peep about it. If it wasn't for me talking about it, most people wouldn't even know that. Yeah. He's a bad motherfucker. And I don't know. I don't mean they said he signed the Floyd Mayweather deal.

Oh, really? Yep, he signed. When did that happen? It happened yesterday. He has signed. Floyd Mayweather has not signed. They're negotiating the Floyd Mayweather. Yep, pure boxing.

Yeah, that's what I think. I'm like, people, look, I mean, maybe he's going to go full Bernard Hopkins, just fucking clinch and hit him in the clinch and tie him up and rough him up. And maybe that's the plan. Lean on his neck, you know, just fight dirtych and hit him in the clinch and tie him up and rough him up. And maybe that's the plan. Lean on his neck. You know, just fight dirty. Let him take points away. Who gives a shit?

As long as you don't get disqualified. Don't, like, stand in the middle of the ring and try to fucking shuck and jive with him. But the other thing is Floyd's not knocking a lot of people out. You know? It's a good fight in terms of, like, to see what the fuck happens. Yeah. How much money is that going to make? He's going to make a fuck ton of money.

He's going to make, he estimated, I don't know if it's true, between 75 and a hundred million dollars. Good on him. Yeah. Good on him. And then who knows how much Floyd's going to make somewhere in that range too. Maybe more, probably more. But I think that it's going to be interesting.

First of all, Floyd's 40, almost 41. Floyd's maybe the best defensive boxer that's ever walked the face of the planet. I mean, he's right up there. I mean, you go back to Willie Papp and a lot of the guys from the old days, and for sure Lomachenko today. But in terms of, like, overall performance against elite fighters over the course of his career, the guy's only been tagged hard like five or six times ever He's a fucking freak and hard work. I mean he's a

You look at him He's throwing money around driving Bentleys But that fucking guy will get on the strip and he'll be running miles at three o'clock in the morning He opens up his gym three o'clock in the morning. Just does 15 rounds in the bag. Just he works hard Yeah, I mean, I don't know if he works that hard anymore. Yeah, that'll be an interesting one. Fuck yeah. I'll watch it.

I hope it goes down. Look, he might get his, Connor might get his ass handed to him, but he might not. Yeah. You know, he might tag Floyd. I mean, if he can, Connor is very good at closing distance and snapping off, like, lead shots.

Like, that's one of the things that he did with Nate. And he's a southpaw. If he can just snap off one or two clean shots and make it interesting. It'll be fun I don't know if he can I don't I don't know what he can do straight box. It's so hard to judge Come on to judge without without knowing without seeing and if they do do it I think they're gonna do it somewhere around September. I think that's the idea Without seeing and if they do do it. I think they're gonna do it somewhere around September. I think that's the idea Jesus Christ, so what's he doing with UFC until then nothing nothing so the lightweight division is on hostage right now They're being held hostage

Interim something or they were supposed to do that but fucking Habib Nurmagomedov Got sick trying to make the weight and didn't make the weight. What happened there? Tony Ferguson and Habib were supposed to fight, and Habib's liver shut down. Yeah, he's cutting too much weight. These guys, they get too fucking big. You know, they get up to 190, and they try to get down to 155, and he couldn't make it. Was he walking around at 190? I don't know. That's what I heard.

I don't know what he really weighed, but he's a bad motherfucker. Yeah, for sure. Habib's grappling is so super high level. I wanted to see that fight so bad. Because Tony Ferguson is a fucking savage. He's a straight savage. So him versus Habib. I watched that fight with him and Edson Barboza again the other day.

Crazy fucking wild bloodbath until Tony caught him with the darts. It was a fucking amazing fight. That's the guy I want to see fight a guy who's one of the only guys undefeated at the top level of the game Which is Habib. He's the only guy that's like a top contender That's undefeated and it's smashed everybody in front of how much longer until he can fight again Who knows if he'll ever be able to make 155 again? Who knows who knows what kind of damage he's done to his body in these rapid, horrible weight cuts. I don't know, man. I don't know his medical history

or his medical issues, but I know before the Michael Johnson fight, apparently he had a similar problem. He made the weight, but apparently it was real touch and go. Yeah. Can't do that. No, you got to cut your calories back. Can't do that. No, you got to cut your calories back.

I mean, you want to suffer, cut your calories back, do a lot of fucking running, drop some body weight. You're going to have to, and it can be done. It can be done.

You're going to have to do it because it's rapid dehydration. You're going to fucking die. Someone's going to die. I mean, the UFC has just passed some new weight cutting rules and new weight classes. Yeah. This is from Andy Foster. Andy Foster's the guy who runs the California State Athletic Commission,

and he is such a fucking animal. Andy Foster's one of the most important guys in terms of commission, the guys who run commissions in MMA. He's one of the most proactive, one of the most knowledgeable, and one of the very best, maybe the best. He's so on the ball. So he's pushed hard for these new weight classes and these new um weight cutting regulations and such a fucking smart thing that guy's that guy's awesome man i'm i like the 225 weight class

yeah even the 195 weight class they should do 10 they should skip 70 and do 10 every, you know, like do 25, 35, 45, 55, 65. Just go 10. 10 is good. 10 makes sense. When you got like 70 and then you got 85 and then you get 85 and 205, that's too many pounds. What was, I mean, GSP versus, what were they going to do? GSP versus Bisping? Yeah.

I've tried to explain this to people because I've been in the room and stood next to those guys. Bisping is a big, big, big man. And GSP is a normal sized guy. I don't see how that fight was going to be fair. Well, also Bisping is currently active. GSP took years off. Bisping is capable of fighting at 55, he says. Bisping said he could make 55. Wow. Yeah, so if he wins at 180, 185, he has thought about fighting either at 170 or at 155.

Like, what the fuck? He's a big dude. I've trained with him. He's a big, strong, he's what, 6'2"? Something like that? Bisping? Yeah. He's tall. he's big he's got incredible cardio yeah for sure he's a hard worker yeah yeah that guy is a perfect example of just like the ultimate like bulldog mindset and just refusing and now look at him he's the champ yeah yeah and he took that fight on what a week's notice two weeks notice against rockhold to win

the championship not even that i think it was a few days i think it was like 11 days notice or something crazy now just being pissed talking shit to dana white on twitter because he was mad that gsp got a title shot and he hasn't earned a title shot yet he's like what the fuck did gsp do and oh man the whole the whole weight class is in a flux and there's a funny meme of uh, because Bisping said that his knees hurt, because they said that the UFC said they want him to fight Yoel Romero because the GSP fight is off. And he's like, well, actually, my knees hurt, so I can wait for GSP. So he's like, I can't really train right now.

I'm good. I'm just going to sit back and take a little break. So this is a funny meme of Michael Bisping in the hospital bed That says Bisping be like I'll just sit here and wait for GSP That's harsh yeah, y'all's a Savage he's terrifying but that really bummed me out when Tim Kennedy lost him well that was cheating Yeah, that shouldn't happen was cheating and that that was horrible Tim did a little bit of cheating in that fight, too What'd he do? He grabbed his gloves

He's grabbed the inside of his glove and punched him in the face a couple times where he's holding Yoel's glove But dude, but people show that in slow motion But what they don't understand is you're showing slow motion Like it looks like he's holding on to it for a while and punching in real life It was less than a second or maybe a second and it's probably just chaos. Yeah And he's having a little something just throwing shit whether or not he actually knew that he had his glove Consciously the gloves make a really big difference in grappling Yeah, you got a train with them if you're gonna fight with them, you know securing chokes

I mean even Damian Maya you see him get rear naked chokes with the hand on top of the head, like old school Ken Shamrock style. Because he can't get the hand back there. He just can't get it. And people start grabbing. If you get a guillotine and people are grabbing the inside of that glove, it's hard. It's a lot harder to finish stuff when people have gloves on. Well, some people finish with it. Josh Thompson used to grab his own glove, which you can do.

You can get deep in there. I saw him choke somebody out with that. I was like, ooh, you can do that. I think you can grab your own glove, which you can do. You can get deep in there. I saw him choke somebody out with that. I was like, ooh, you can do that. I think you can grab your own glove. Yeah. And that makes a nice handle if you can slip your fingers in there. You have to train with them if you're going to fight with them. You have to.

Oh, it's amazing how hard it is to choke people when you have those, especially those pride gloves, the big padded ones. Even Marcelo Garcia was having a really hard time with it when he had his one lone MMA fight Yeah, he had this dudes back and he couldn't finish him and a lot of it is because of those Make a big difference. They really do. I don't think you should wear gloves. I really don't I totally agree with you I think fighting if you could kick somebody in the shin to the face Like you can shin somebody in the face, but you can't knuckle them in the yeah No, I think it would be so helpful for all the head trauma That's happening if they took off the gloves.

Oh, yeah. And you had to either strike with an open palm or you had to pay the price because I might hit you twice before I broke my hand. And now I'm going to be grappling with you and trying to take you down. I don't think people understand that. That if someone just ducks their head down and you hit them with a straight punch to the forehead, you are very likely to break a hand. I don't think you should be able to wrap your hands either. Yeah. I really don't. That would be awesome. I think you should have, I think you should have a cup on and a mouthpiece and shorts. And I really think that's it. I mean, and people like, Oh, you're a fucking idiot. You're a barbarian. They need to cover the

glove. No, they don't. You're less of a barbarian. You make yourself, you make yourself more able to hit someone and You don't really help them at all like it's harder to hit someone bare-knuckle. Yeah, it's it's more realistic That's it's it's it. I wish they would make that change. I wish that would change everything How come you can elbow somebody but you can't bare knuckle and that's crazy your knuckles are way more vulnerable Yeah, like it's way harder to get that off until you wrap it up Then you make it like a cast you wrap it up and you get some you'll like a nice Stiff wrist wrap where your rips wrist isn't going anywhere Buckling and flexing when you punch someone it's hardcore when they wrap up those hands boy

Like even like holding pads for guys when we're backstage getting ready like they're they just turn it up. Yeah Yeah, but they'll it up. Yeah. Yeah. But they'll never make that change. I don't say, I don't think. I think they should. And I think for really, for the head trauma of the people that are fighting is that that's who really

needs it. For sure. In the head all those times. And it's not good for you. No, it's not good for you. And again, that goes back to the grappling thing.

I think we see more submissions. I think it would be way easier to catch people with stuff. Like it would be way easier to secure guillotines and chokes. It's just you wouldn't have all these restrictions of having something on your hands. Your hands need to be able to articulate and move to secure certain grips. And you'd see a lot more submissions, I think. Yeah, it's too bad they don't make that change. It would be better for everyone. Yeah, I mean, I remember when I first started working for the UFC, you didn see a lot more submissions. I think yeah, it's too bad. They don't make that change. It'd be better for everyone

Yeah, I mean I remember when I first started working for the UFC He didn't have to wear gloves Vitor was one of the first guys to wear a Vitor and tank Tank was one of the first guys ever to wear gloves and he wore those gloves that he was wearing were like old-school Century martial arts Chuck Norris gloves like nobody had even thought to wear those. I think tank was like the innovator Yeah, tank was the innovator. Yeah, Tank was an innovator for sure. Then Vitor innovated his head.

Yeah. Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. Damn, man. Vitor in the early days. I was there his first fight in 1997, the first time at UFC 12. Nobody had seen anything like that. This guy comes in with his blazing hand speed built like a fucking Greek god. And everybody's like, oh, Jesus, what do you do with his blazing hand speed built like a fucking Greek God and everybody's like oh Jesus What do you do with this fucking kid? Yeah? Yeah, that was I was interesting and of course we all heard because I was you know

Jiu-jitsu guy at that time we're like oh He's only a purple belt is what we were hearing and they gave him his black belt just cuz he's doing this fight and blah blah Blah he's only a purple belt and he comes out just what is it 13 punches to the face? But pop and then he did the same thing to vandal a pop just what is it 13 punches to the face bop bop bop and then he did the same thing to vanderley bop bop bop bop bop straight punches down the pipe crazy yeah when he fought vanderley he was wearing shoes remember that he was wearing like wrestling shoes there's all these wacky rules back then it's really interesting to see like from 1993 to 2017 how far fighting has changed how much we know about it now yeah i always say that fighting

in 1992 was theoretical and and we you know some somebody will say something to me on the internet like hey you know what about this martial art or whatever and i'm like what do you think of this and i'm like there's no reason to theorize not only do we know from the UFC we also have been and now a country at war for whatever 15 years so all of our guys been going overseas and doing the same stuff on in combat so we know what works there's no there's no big question anymore right it's not like I wonder what happens if you poke a guy in the eye no we know what happens we know what happens yeah it's pretty obvious it's not good he here's another thing like like Wing Chun and things like that like yeah that'll work if you've the guy doesn't know what

the fuck he's doing and you chain punch him it's not good hit somebody 17 times in the head when they're not expecting they've never trained before yeah definitely not good very effective are you gonna get that off on someone who actually knows what they're doing i don't know man you're gonna get that off on a high school wrestler? Good luck. Get a double-legged moon. Most likely you're going flying. Put your head on the curb. Yeah.

It just seems to me that, like, did you see that video that is becoming a huge issue in China? Yes. That a Chinese Tai Chi master tried to fight an MMA fighter and just got obliterated in 10 seconds? Yep. And this guy's had to hide. This Chinese MMA fighter's had to go into hiding because people are offended

That he battered this Tai Chi master and made their country look bad Yeah, because it's making their their traditional martial art look ineffective. Yeah, that's not That doesn't make sense to me. I don't know here. We can watch this real quick I don't know why the fuck this guy didn't understand. What was gonna happen when they fought they Sometimes I think they actually believe What they're saying this is so brutal though this Tai Chi guy What's really bizarre is Tai Chi is not really a physical fighting martial art It's supposed to be something that's more of like a meditative. It's like yoga. Yeah, it's like a yoga deal

It's supposed to be great for I had one of my one of my buddies black belt Guy named Jeff Higgs old-school jujitsu guy and he got told by a tai chi guy You know you can't take me down. Oh god, and my buddy see that yeah I mean that guy just got obliterated Yeah And the only way you can ever actually know What would happen if someone punches you in the face is to train that way.

If you just have these ideas in your head that you're going to stand in front of them, this guy's just oozing blood all over the place and he's getting up, he's battered, his nose is shattered, he's wobbly. I guess. It's probably the first time he's ever been punched. Maybe the MMA guy should have, if he had a little bit more foresight on what was going to happen, he should have come out and like really done the whole You know respect and then the bow and then all this stuff and then after defeated him should have helped him if he maybe that Would have helped him from a from a political standpoint

Hmm, but yeah, because wonder yeah, but you know it seems to me that this is something that they need to see They really do because there's too many people out there that are just buying into this foolish shit Well like I said so my buddy Jeff Higgs got this this I think was an Aikido guy Does Aikido people say chi and all that? I don't know I have chi they probably do well depends on which asshole you talk Whether it was Aikido or whether it was Tai Chi I forget but the guy says you know hey I'm a martial artist and once I settle my chi you can't even take me down So how are you gonna do jiu-jitsu on me?

And he says well what do you mean you can sell your cheese as you know I once I center my chi and it's based Into the ground you won't be able to move me You can try it if you want and my friend Higgs goes uh okay cool Tell me when your cheese all centered and the guy you know does his little thing and then settles his chi and he says, okay, I'm ready. And Jeff just, I mean, it's no big deal. Just hit a double leg on him. Boom. You know, you can't stop a double leg without defending it, without spawning.

And yeah, so. So what did he say? The guy actually believed that, right? The guy actually believed that. That's like a type of mental illness. It is, but I mean, you know, it's flat earth, right? The guy actually believed that. That's like a type of mental illness. It is, but I mean, you know, it's flat earth, right? It's the same. I don't want to bring that up right now. It comes up so often on these podcasts. I've got a couple of people that are, you know, now every time I talk about jujitsu at all, they're like flat earth, flat earth. They believe it. Yeah.

Yeah. People believe it. I get fucking shit every day from people that are flat-earth supporters that are mad at me For exposing they just want to believe it. That's real It is a weird thing with and by the way one of the main guys who's into flat-earth makes has a whole video about how Jiu-jitsu doesn't work, and it's about Wing Chun isn't it like one of his biggest videos on his page. Yeah Hilarious, but there is something about people wanting to believe that there's mysteries and secrets that there's like some secret power yeah like and that you know the idea that you could just center yourself and a college wrestler can't take you down yeah that's one of my new things that i tell people with jujitsu because i i used to say like jujitsu

is magic because because it kind of is you know when you know jujitsu you can do things that are almost magic right, but then when you're teaching somebody for the first time I'm always like look. It's not magic. It's you know I was showing somebody the other day You know elbow escape or something from the mount and the guys like you know he's he's it's really hard to do because he keeps Pulling my arm away. You know yeah, it's a fight. You're in yeah, it's not magic It's you have to fight against the other person It's another human. I just told him what to do and I told you what to do now You got to fight for it. Yeah, you got to figure out how to get to the right position Yeah, it's not magic, but it is weird that people that you know they're they're looking for something to

Believe in I guess yeah, and maybe they just want a contrarian viewpoint, so that's why they pick saying that the earth is flat Well, I also think it's it's sort of the same thing with people wanting shortcuts. I can't believe I'm going down this road right now. I just want to walk away. The end of podcast, I'm out. People love shortcuts. They love throwing out the entire paradigm of modern civilization. It's all based on a lie.

We're not on a globe. We're on a flat disk. The universe spins around us. Like, oh, boy. Is this maybe, you know, people that just like to argue? Is this maybe just people that like to argue

and have a contrary viewpoint? That could be some of them, for sure. That could be some of them. For some of them, I think it's just that they... So is there people that straight up,

just straight up believe that the Earth is flat 100%? 100%. In their soul oh yeah yeah yeah yeah they really believe it but there's also people that join the moonies you know there's people that join silent scientology yeah i mean look there's people out there that'll suck a dick if they think it'll make them live forever they say you sure i suck your dick i'm gonna live forever yes the knowledge will flow through you but you have to believe like yeah well down in San Diego. I don't know what it was ten years ago 15 years ago

They had that Heaven's Gate thing where all those put on those purple shoes they put on the purple Nikes Yeah, they kill themselves in the comet was flying by yeah, and it shows you again. You know now we're You're talking about the human mind is just so complicated and complex that it's Grasping for something to believe in. And some people aren't going to believe in anything. Yeah. Well, you know, it's one of the things that Guy Ritchie brought up the other day about your book, Extreme Ownership. And it's one thing that I think you and I are both really focused on is the way the brain works and the way the mind works. And this is one of the things that i think that you reinforce with these big photos of your watch every day it's like the mind works in very peculiar ways and you can and it's kind

of pliable and you could force it into positive productive ways you can you can you can express yourself in these very positive productive ways and in in carve those grooves of productivity and of advancement. Well, it's what you're talking about We just talked about the moonies and the Scientology where people are trying to do mind control and when I talk about mind control I'm talking about control your own mind Yeah You know you can make yourself exactly what you're just saying you can make yourself and force yourself to do things and Once you get in that groove and get in that habit It becomes part of you and that becomes who you are and why not be that person then the other person that's not doing positive

things Yeah, but people like people like to also Pretend that the way they're doing it is the right way They don't want to be open to the idea that there's some other method that's maybe more productive and more successful well there's the downfall I mean and that's that you know again and I think this is one of the reasons why your show is so popular and why people listen to you because you you listen to other people right people listen to you because you listen to other people you listen to what they have to say you go okay that's an interesting viewpoint hadn't heard that before and you I'm the same way when somebody tells me hey this is what i believe i don't say well i

don't believe that i believe something else i go that's interesting that's an interesting viewpoint yeah i always want to try to see things from other people's perspective and it's hard because the brain wants to go fuck this guy this guy's no shit you you're you're right dude this guy's wrong but you always gotta like pause and think I mean again I hate to bring this back up But that could easily be what's also going on with the flat earth thing because they have this idea in their head and then someone's You know there's no photos of the earth other than Composites if there really was a round earth you'd be able to see a hole and you go

Oh, actually there's a photo taken every 10 minutes from 22,000 miles away of the full earth. Well, that's not true. That's fake. And they get into this thing and they get into this thing because they don't want to ever stop and pause and look at the way they're thinking versus the way other people are thinking. OK, did I get myself in a fucking trap here? Did I get myself into an intellectual trap or I'm supporting an idea That's not true and now I'm reinforcing that in my head, and I'm fucking I'm tightening up all my my borders and trying to figure out a way to not let new ideas in and to Reinforce my old ideas you know your podcast with Jordan Peterson the other day He kind of brought that up which I think by the way if anyone hasn't listened that podcast

That's that's got to be one of the best podcasts that I've ever heard. He's a mind blower unbelievable podcast and He's talking about the fact that sometimes people if they if they accept those new ideas All of a sudden what they've done with their life for the past 20 years gets thrown out the window Yeah, and that's got to be really hard and immediately when I was listening to that I was thinking to myself Yeah, that's that's what happened in the 90s when somebody that had been studying some traditional martial art. God bless them. They were doing the best they could. But when all of a sudden some blue belt in jujitsu could come in there and roll them up and choke them out and there was nothing they could do about it.

And they either had to do one of two things say, OK, I'm going to start training this other new thing that I don't understand or block it out, which was very hard to do with jujitsu. I mean, that's the good thing about MMA and about UFC is it was like you can deny it all you want, but you have to face this guy on the mat. That's the only way you can. And when you do that, you're going to lose. Whereas with all these kind of intellectual arguments, a lot of times it's just I say, you say, I say, you say. And if you tell me, you know, if I'm telling you that every picture of the earth is whatever CGI and that's what I'm going to hold and I'm not going to let it go. And how are you going to prove to me otherwise? And every single picture you show me, I say, no, that's CGI.

And you show me another picture. I say, no, that's CGI. We're never going to get anywhere. I'm not arguing with you about it. You're never going to tap. You're just going to, you're just going to turtle up in a ball. I had to go through three of those, man. Cause I started out with Taekwondo, was it's not like the it's not a good

Martial art for fighting. It's got by itself. It's got too many holes in it Yeah But it's a great martial art for throwing kicks and when I went from that to kickboxing I realized how easy it was to get punched in the face and I was like wow And so then I started really studying boxing and i was like man my my ideas of like how well i can fight are so overestimated i i'm not nearly as i'm good at taekwondo i'm not good at fighting and then i started doing muay thai and i'm like oh well fucking leg kicks jesus christ leg kicks and knees to the body and the clench i was like oh fuck there's so much i can i'm so

fucked you know because i got i got really good at something that kind of sucks on its own yeah and then from there jujitsu where i was just getting raped i was like at least with kickboxing i could throw kicks i could move around i could try not to get my legs kicked i could try to like be more mobile but when i was going into jujitsu as a white belt I was just getting fucking mauled what happens and I had accept it and then so I Literally stopped doing everything else and they said I've got to get better at this no way I can you can't even start

Like a white, but some of us never trained jiu-jitsu before is it has a zero percent chance of beating a guy That's a black belt. Yeah, zero. Like, 0% chance. They're not going to be able to do it. If you take somebody that doesn't really know how to fight against a boxer, there is a puncher's chance. I mean, there's a puncher's chance. It's probably not going to happen. It's a crazy chance, but who knows? It could.

And at least the person that hasn't boxed before has some semblance of an idea of what to do right block the punches from hitting me and try And punch the other guy right when you don't know jujitsu. You don't even understand. What's happening. You're completely lost Yeah, and there's certain positions like if you get your back taken or something like that where you're almost a hundred percent dead Yeah, it's but I think that there's parallels to that in life because if you look at life And you look at the way you're behaving and the way you're thinking and the way you choose to accept ideas and the way that you choose to view the world, if you're so rigid in your ideology that you're unwilling to accept any sort of new information and new data or any sort of contrary data or information, like someone who's telling you something that you don't agree with, but you're going, okay, well, all right, well, what's your perspective?

Instead of just agreeing or disagreeing with them and arguing and going to war with them, try to take it in. Try to go, okay, well, what is this guy saying that has merit? Where's this guy coming from? Or even if I totally disagree with him, what makes him think this? Like what's going on in your head that you think that we should take everyone's money and distribute it equally across the country like there's people that believe that yeah that everyone who's ever been successful somehow another got it through stealing

and then what we need to do is take all the money in the country and redistribute all this well so everybody gets $50,000 okay well all right why do you think this yeah I want to know you know i mean i might i might argue with it or i might see your point or i might think that if you did do this but you still if you did this right now this is what i think if you did this right now if you took all the money from all the billionaires and all these fucking rich tycoons all of them and took all their money and distributed equally amongst everybody in the country how long would it take if you just allowed normal capitalism to flourish after that? How long would it take before the levels went right back to where they are?

Would it be 10 years? Would it be 20? How long would it take? It wouldn't be long. The way I explained that concept to my children was I said, okay, here's what communism is, because this is what you're talking about. I said, my kids are really hard hard workers and they do well in school And I said, you know you study hard for your test, right?

Let's say you get a 90 95 on your test and then what happens with communism is there's another kid in your class Who's the dumbest kid Billy? Okay, Billy's getting up whatever a third. Yeah So what we're gonna do is you're gonna take the test and then we're gonna take whatever points from you and give them to Billy So that you both get a D and that's what we're gonna do now. That's what communism is now If I do that is that gonna inspire you to work any harder The answer is obviously no, you know, you're gonna get a D no matter what is it gonna inspire ability work any harder? The answer is no it is not Billy's not gonna work Any harder so what we have is no one working, and that's what happens in communism

You're you're all just level set you're all gonna get the same thing, and that's why it's failed everywhere. It's tried Yeah, it's not the right idea for just the way the human reward system works. It's not the right idea for motivation It's not a ride right idea for like the only way things get done. The only way you get a laptop or a big skyscraper, someone has to profit from it. Yeah. They have to get something out of it. And by the way, someone has to make that happen. Someone has to be driven to want that laptop and to want that skyscraper. Somebody's got to want to make that. And you're right for them to want it. There's got to be some reward. There's got to be some part of being driven is you got to have something to show for it. So we got to be some reward. You've got to be some more being driven is you got to have something to show for it So we got to be really careful that the amount of you know wealth that you spread around

If you spread it all around you're gonna end up with no one wanting to achieve anything Yeah like I hear Bernie Sanders talk and he seems like a really nice guy and he seems like he really has his mind in the Right place and his heart in the right place and this idea of democratic socialism see him talking to people I'm like well, that's definitely better than being greedy. It's definitely better than being corrupted by the banks It's definitely better than being corrupted by Wall Street and giving these bullshit phony speeches for hundreds of thousand dollars and fucking over people for profit but Does that shit but does socialism really work? It doesn't seem to work

It doesn't seem to like work in terms of like motivation It doesn't even work for for Bernie Sanders who has multiple homes He does I mean the guys got multiple owns. He just bought our house for you know $800,000 and what does he open that up to the public to come and stay in his house? No, no, of course not so it's Well, that's different Talking about a different thing. I've earned this money serving the people. Yeah, exactly right.

You did earn that money. And if you want to go out and buy that second home on a lake, do it. Good for you, Bernie. But don't try and make it like that's okay to take everyone else's money. We'll do it to everybody else, but not to me. It doesn't work. Well,

the concept of income inequality is always strange because it's like, well, okay, but you should, you make the same amount of money for a job that doesn't have the same amount of importance. No, just go ahead and straight up answer for you.

No, you shouldn't. If, if you got paid after 10 years of medical school, the same that you got paid to drive a bus After you busted your ass and worked hard and had to study and do all this stuff to go to medical school And by the way, you built up a bunch of debt trying to go to school Hey, why wouldn't you just become a bus driver motivation shouldn't be financial your motivation should be helping people

Yeah, I don't you you got to be we we have to be careful that and and of course There are people that legitimately need help in the yes. There's people with with disabilities There's people with mental problems, and we've got to be compassionate and take care of those people to the best of our ability But we definitely need to watch out for hey Let's steal everything from the people that worked hard and give it to the people that didn't. Yeah, it just doesn't seem like a good idea. It seems contrary to what we know about human motivation, basic human instincts. Yeah, and then where do you stop?

Yeah. Where do you stop? Legitimately, like worldwide. Because we could distribute all the money and wealth that we've built in America and distribute it over the whole world. money and wealth that we've built in America and distributed over the whole world. Well, I think a better concept is figuring out why there are pockets of extreme poverty and how to mitigate those pockets of poverty that have just, I mean, generation after generation in certain neighborhoods, it's just been extreme poverty. And these people that grow up there, that's what they know.

They're sort of almost programmed into it because they're seeing it around them. That is the paradigm that they accept. And it's very self-limiting in a lot of ways. If you don't see anybody escape or you see very few people escape, it's very, you feel like, you know, resistance is futile. Like, what do you do? You know, there's a, there's a, and I wish I knew the, all the details of this, but there was a native American tribe and somebody I'm sure will, will tell me what it is, but there was a Native American tribe and somebody I'm sure will tell me what it is. But there was a Native American tribe like in Northern California that when all the Native American tribes got designated as Native American tribes and they got, you know, here's what you're going to get. And this is your tribe. And this is these guys, for whatever reason, they didn't get it.

They didn't get designated as a Native American tribe. They just got they got passed over. No one noticed them. And now all the members of that tribe like completely dominate they run everything financially they own everything up there They kind of kicked ass right and it's because they had to and I think a lot of times when when people just get given Stuff it becomes very very difficult for them to say you know what I'm gonna go out and work hard You know am I gonna bust it's a classic example of, Hey, am I going to bust my ass at McDonald's for eight bucks an hour, 40 hours a week or whatever, 30 hours a week for nine bucks

an hour. I'm going to work that hard doing that. Or am I just going to take my welfare check, which is equal to, or almost equal to for sitting around and doing nothing. That's not a hard question to answer for many, many people. Yeah, I'm going to sit around and do nothing. So we have to be careful of that. It's hard. Yeah, it is hard. It is a natural inclination that people have to do the least amount to just be as comfortable as possible or as lazy as possible.

I think your statement that you always say, discipline equals freedom. People should have that shit tattooed on their thigh. You know, you should look at that when you get up in the morning and put your underwear on. Like, that shit is so important because if you do have discipline and if you do go out there and get the things done that you need to get done, you have freedom and you feel better and you feel relaxed

because you don't have that balloon hovering over you, and you feel relaxed because you're not, you don't have that balloon hovering over you, that balloon of, you know, you know, just knowing that you're not doing your best, knowing that you're not out there hustling. And if you just get a free check every month and you don't really have to go out there and kick ass, you can kind of get by boy, that doesn't, it's not, it's not conducive to lighting that fire under your ass. You need to be successful. Yeah. And again, I know I'm going to point this out for i think the second or third time today i'm no sociologist i don't i'm not some big guy that understands the mechanisms of the welfare state and all that i'm just going off of what what i think which is similar what you're saying look if i was just getting a check for not doing anything i wouldn't feel good about it

yeah you know i wouldn't feel good about it and Yeah. You know, I wouldn't feel good about it. And so I think that there are people that go, hey, if I can get free money, I'm going to take the free money. You know, there is a concept of universal basic income that's kind of interesting, though, because this idea is that once we get automation and once we get artificial intelligence, that there's going to be so many jobs that don't exist anymore that we've got to figure out what to do with all these people. And the idea is if you just have your basic needs taken care of, like not enough so that you could actually thrive, but just where you have food and shelter. How many people would then pursue their actual love and what they're actually passionate about? And would it be the same?

There's tests they're doing. They're doing on it now. They're trying to find out, would the same amount of people be successful? Would more be successful or would less? Like how many people would pursue their dream if they knew they didn't have to worry about starving to death? If they just got money every month, they knew where they were going to sleep and eat, and then they could just go and do whatever the fuck they want to do.

Or would that just squash motivation? I don't know. I don't know what the answer is. I'd say what I think. I think it, I think it squashes motivation for some, right? But would it for you, if you got a check every month for like 12 grand or a 12 grand for the year or whatever it is, like, I think that's the idea. So you give people like a thousand bucks a year or a thousand bucks a month, a thousand bucks a month. Yeah. Maybe double double that just enough that you could just get by but you know, you're not ballin two questions number one Of course, would it would I take free money? Sure. Would I feel good about it? No number two Where does that money come from? Right? Where does it come from? Because that's the thing that I also explained to my kids is that you know

Every time you every time the government gives a dollar to somebody They took that dollar from somebody else. Yeah. And that's the reality of it. Yeah. Then the question is, when a guy like Bernie Madoff or some crazy Wall Street character, when they just move some money around and make money, like, okay, how much are you getting out of that? Where's that coming from? Whose, whose money was that? Like, where's that go? Where's that going? And how's it, how does it exist? Well, Bernie's a bad example, right? Cause he was stealing everyone's money.

Or the best example. Well, okay. Yeah. I'll give you that. I'll give you that. Yeah. Uh, but again, those people are formulating companies and funding companies that are trying to grow and build and create things, you know, that, that money, it moves somewhere and it ends up, you know, investing in a company and building a company. That's what, that's what, that's what America is trying to build things, trying to make things. Yeah. Taking risk. I wonder what is going to happen though, when all these fucking robots start doing our jobs. Well, I think a big one is the, uh, the automatic driving cars and trucks, because that's a huge you know you go to vegas i always think about this when i'm in vegas and you go to the buffet and there's like 10 billion pounds of food

none of that food comes from vegas it all gets trucked in there so at some point all those trucks can be driven by robots and that's not too far in the future at all i think they're already doing in australia they already have automated trucks in Australia that are driving, you know, shipping things around. It's going to get weird. Yeah, it's going to get real weird. Between that and genetic engineering and all these different things that we've been talking about, it's going to get really weird. And I think, again, going back to the original conversation we started off with today, I think the weirder it gets and the further we get away from primal sort of existence of hunting down food and fighting against other tribes, I think the further we get away from that, the more we're going to have to reach back to it and

ground ourselves to it. Well, at the very least, the more you're going to have to deal with whatever requirements your body and your mind have for difficulty. I think we have requirements for struggle and difficulty because I think your body is set up to, I think biologically we have certain expectations for difficulty. And when you don't uncover those or encounter those expectations, I think people find like a real lack of meaning and stress in this lack of stress and this peace. And that's why we're going to have to reach back to this physicality at some point. And it's, it's not just physicality. You're like you're saying it's a mental struggle too. It's trying to achieve things. It's trying to win. It's trying to be competitive. If I'm just sitting

there and I don't have a job anymore and I just get, you know, 12 to a thousand bucks a month, and that's enough for me to pay my food and pay my rent. I'm just going to sit there and play video games. I don't think that's the kind of existence I would want to live. It might not even just be physical too. I think it's just in overcoming and enduring and figuring things out. Like even writing a book, I'm sure you're feeling like you just have, you have a new book out the way of the warrior kid. And I'm sure the feeling that you get when you write a book and complete, complete it

is I fucking did it. I made that happen. I didn't want to get through all those days. There was a lot of. I didn't want to write, but I got through it and here it is There's a satisfaction of accomplishing goals and of overcoming Obstacles and problems and they don't have to be physical. I think there's mental requirements that we have as well Yeah, I think when people aren't mentally challenged. They just start to fade Yeah, and if you're not looking for the physical and the mental challenges You're gonna start to fade so you gotta be careful that why did you write this book? Well?

It's a kid's book way the warrior kid and the reason I wrote it is because first of all all the things that we're talking About right now. They're happening even more to kids. I mean you have kids kids, right? iPads, iPhones, they're sucked into technology and there's nothing completely wrong with that. But if they get sucked into technology and they don't ever come out of it, you got issues. And being a kid, if you remember, and a lot of people forget this, being a kid is hard. Being a kid is hard. And in this particular book, Being a kid is hard and in this particular book. There's a kid his name is mark. He's in fifth grade He's got kind of the typical issues that a fifth grader has he can't do any pull-ups So in gym class when they're doing pull-ups, he's getting made fun of

He's doesn't know his times tables, which you should absolutely know in fifth grade, but he doesn't know him So he's thinks he's stupid now He doesn't know how to swim because he never learned and he's when they go on the field trip to the to the lake He doesn't know how to swim so everyone's having a good time And he can't and eventually they call him out on it and finally he's getting picked on by the big bully Kenny Williamson oh fucking can he happy shit Kenny Williamson? So last the book starts off last day of school basically all these problems come to a head He's all bummed out crying behind the library Goes home and when he gets home his mom reminds him that his uncle uncle Jake is coming to stay with him for the summer And uncle Jake is a guy that was a seal

And the seal teams and he's just got out of theAL teams and he's gonna go to college in the fall but he's gonna spend the summer with his sister and with his nephew Mark and so you know the the Navy SEAL shows up uncle Jake shows up and he sees his little nephew and he says hey you know they're actually staying in the same room and he says hey you know what you do tomorrow you you know you wanna go play some ball you want to go for a swim and the kid says you know I I don't want to play ball it's not fun and and i don't know how to swim and i don't know he breaks down you know getting picked on the whole nine yards and his uncle says okay so you can't swim you don't know your time tables

you can't do any pull-ups and you're getting picked on we can change all those things we just have to get a plan put it together and make happen. So puts him on the workout program, teaches him how to study, teaches him how to swim, teaches him jujitsu. If it was only that easy. Yeah. And what's good is it's not as hard as people think. And I think that's why the book's getting a strong reaction, because there's actually pragmatic methods in there on... For instance, I went through all this stuff, not knowing,

not knowing times tables. I went through that with my daughter, my oldest daughter didn't know her times tables and what she thought was she's stupid. She thought I'm stupid. I don't know my times tables. Other kids know him. I don't know him. And I said to her, you know, she's crying, you know, she's in whatever third or fourth grade crying. What's wrong? I'm stupid. Why do you think you're stupid? I don't know my times tables. Oh, well, how much have you studied them? I Haven't studied them. Well, how do you think you're gonna know them if you haven't studied them? What do you mean study them? Boom make flashcards an hour later. She knows our times tables. It's that and so I actually go through that method in the book How do you learn how to fight you're getting picked on?

How do you learn how to fight you go down to your your jiu-jitsu school and you start learning jiu-jitsu and you and I both know if you know jiu-jitsu in a grade school fight in sixth grade you're gonna win a hundred percent of the time right so you learn do you learn that learn how to swim how do you how do you do that and his big thing is he's afraid of water well why are you afraid of the water how do you overcome that fear how do you fear? You got to inoculate yourself to it You start off waiting in the water then you dunk your head then you get you know Then you then you lay down and you feel the water all over your body and then eventually you step in and then eventually you

Start to dog paddle and then eventually start to swim and then eventually jump off the bridge So these are real things that's how you overcome fear and that you know that one I got from my my middle daughter Who wanted to be in the school play, but she got stage fright. And so she would freak out every time she would have to go in front of a crowd. So I said, okay, we're going to inoculate you to being in front of people. First, you're going to sing in front of me. And then you're going to sing in front of me and mom. And then you're going to sing in front of me and mom and your brothers and sisters and then you're gonna sing in front of you know our friends that are gonna come over

There's gonna be ten of them and then you're gonna sing in front of you know All of the people that we know at a block party and then you're gonna get out and you're gonna do your rehearsal and she Did it and she got inoculated and I'll tell you right now She's not afraid of anything that girl and so that's the same thing that that he goes through in the book Overcoming his fear of water he inoculates to it gets used to it and then finally the final step is you have to go right you can't overcome every part of the unknown you have to there's always gonna be some unknown in doing something that you've never done before and then what do you do when you've prepared as much as you can and you've done all the training that you can do then you got to step up and you got to go so that's what

the book's about and i wrote it so that kids can apply these things that I learned both in the SEAL teams and in raising my own kids, they can apply them to their life. And the reaction has been great. It's been great to see all these kids reading it and all the great feedback of kids doing pushups and pull-ups and training and going down and starting jujitsu and making flashcards. It's awesome. That is awesome. And then one of the cool things about being a kid is, well, it's a struggle in that you haven't really achieved any success yet in anything. But what you don't realize is that you've got all these possibilities to get good at stuff. Yeah. Like once you become really good at something, one of the real problems is people don't like to get out of their comfort zone and become a beginner again.

Yeah. And it's one of the beautiful things about life is humbling yourself with something new, humbling yourself and learning stuff. And kids, they don't have that lesson yet. So everything is terrifying, but once they do learn it, if you could teach a kid how to get good at one thing, like one of the things that led me to get good at standup comedy and all the other things that I did is that I got really good at martial arts young. So I knew, okay, I sucked when I first started. I remember sucking, but I remember I kept working and I get good at it because I focused and I put the time in. Well, if I just do that without anything else, I mean, you've learned that you,

you can make a path. You can do it. It can be done. And that's, that's, you know, that's kind of one of the main points of the book. And when the kid finally does his 10 pull-ups, that was his goal. and his uncle says you know do you understand what this is about and this kid says you know well it's about i can do pull-ups now and he says no this is about everything about everything that you want to do in life you're going to have to work for you're going to have to come up with a plan you're going to have to have the discipline to execute that plan and when you do that you're going to be able to achieve what you want to achieve and that's hard work hard work and discipline is what's gonna get you there

I'm a lot of kids don't have anybody in front of them like Jocko to tell them well, and you know what it's interesting So in this book, you know uncle Jake is the character and and he actually addresses that in the end of the book because uncle Jake leaves and the kid says hey, you know, you're not gonna be around anymore Who's gonna who's gonna lead me who's gonna help me train and he says you didn't need me then and you don't need me now You know what you need to do. You know, it's gonna take hard work and the other thing that I did in this book which is I played around with the idea, but his dad

the kids dad is not really present and And the reason I did that is because a lot of kids these days don't have a dad around and he the only thing he Says about his dad. I put one line in there about his dad Which was you know, he says my dad's gone a lot for his job and stuff. That's the only line So you you have an idea that the kid knows his dad knows that he's out there He's working or doing whatever he's doing, but there's a lot of kids out there that don't have a dad They don't have an uncle Jake and that was you know Another reason why but wrote the book because kids need to see and learn

You know if you wouldn't have done martial arts who would have told you that hey if you work hard and you train You're gonna get good at this that would have if you wouldn't done that with martial arts You wouldn't done it with stand-up comedy you wouldn't done it with the rest of your career You would have said you know you would have gotten on the stage the first time for for for stand-up comedy you wouldn't have made anyone laugh you would have walked off said i suck and gonna get the job you know down it down at 7-eleven or whatever you know that's whereas if you if somebody said look man of course you suck you just started of course you suck of course you don't know your times tables how would you know them you don't born with information. Of course you're not good at standup comedy. You just did it for

the first time. You got to learn how to do it. Of course you're not good at standup fighting and taekwondo. You've never done it before. So you got to learn these things. You got to put in the work. You learn that lesson through martial arts. A lot of kids don't get that opportunity. I'm trying to give them that opportunity to learn it with this book. And even for people that aren't kids, like go do something you're not good at. It's, it's really important. It's good. Just try something, pick up a new hobby, pick up a new discipline, try learning how to play chess, try to just do something you suck at and let, let your mind feel what it's like to be at the beginning stages of improvement. Again, I think it's, it's very invigorating. Not only that,

I mean, factually, that's good for your brain. They say you're supposed to learn new languages, learn to play chess, learn to play guitar, read new books. You're supposed to do that stuff your whole life to continue. That's what continues. Just like your body falls apart, if you don't exercise it, your mind falls apart if you don't exercise it as well. Yeah, I definitely feel that. If I don't do anything new for a long time, I feel stagnant. But when I start doing something new, especially something that I'm not good at, so I start thinking about it a lot. I started obsessing about it a lot. I get invigorated. I get excited about going there. Yeah. And we, and we saw the same thing. Like

when our first book came out, it's a leadership book, right? And everyone thinks, Hey, you know, it's another leadership book. And then when you read it, people go, oh, wait a second. This is like a new thought. It's a new thought I haven't seen before. And we have these, you know, we have these things that we do where we just bring people in. Like it's usually we go out and work with a company. We go out with one company and we go out and we work with a company. But we found that there was some smaller companies or people that couldn't afford to bring us in. So we said, okay, what are we going to do about that? So we made this thing up called the muster where we open it up to the public to come and, you know, come and spend two days going through all these principles. And it's the same thing that you're talking about. They say it's a challenge. It's new thought. It's thinking about something from a different light people that have been in leadership positions for five years ten years fifteen years And they go okay

I can apply this new methodology that I haven't seen hadn't thought about before so they'll continue to grow and learn is just so important Across the board yeah stepping outside your comfort zone It's just one of the most important things for a human being for whatever reason I mean, I don't know what it is, but I know what works things for a human being for whatever reason. I mean, I don't know what it is, but I know what works and that's it. Yeah. That's what it is, man. For me, I'd like, I've got a bunch of shit that I do that I suck at right now. It's, it's so important, man. I just started running really recently, like within the last couple of months, I've noticed that you've been posting about that. Dude, I suck at it. I'm fuck. I'm so it's crazy. You're getting a lot better a lot quicker though Oh, man, like your endurance jumps up quick like within a few weeks

I was able to like way past areas like I've got this this trail That's about two point seven miles through the hills like real steep hills And there are some spots where I was just fucking dying and now I can get through them I can get through them and get to the top and I'm still dying, but I'm dying less. Are you timing yourself too? So you're trying to make the times? Yeah, I'm trying to make the times. And, and then, you know, uh, I started wearing a heart rate watch too, which, uh, I'll let

my heart rate get down to like when I, when I, uh, when I have to take a break on these hill sprints, I'll get my heart rate down to one 40 and then I'll start going again. People ask me that too because When do you get bored when you get bored of working out and also when you reach your physical limitations, right? So you reach your physical limitations on something, you know, like you're gonna get down to a six minute mile Let's say and then for you to take it past a six minute mile You're gonna have to like stop lifting kettlebells get all skinny for you to take it past a six minute mile, you're going to have to like stop lifting kettlebells,

get all skinny. You know, you'd go to a point where now that'd be your sole focus. And I know, I'm guessing you wouldn't want to do that. I know I wouldn't want to do that. And so for me, I'm always jumping around from kind of from goal to goal, right? Like I'll, maybe I'll be doing pull-ups, heavy pulls for a while. I'll be doing pull-ups, pull-ups, pull-ups, trying to get up my max pull-ups. And then I get to a point where okay Now I'm I'm not gonna it's gonna take every bit of focus in my life to get to from from 58 pull-ups to 62 I don't want to do that So I'm cool with 52 and now I'm gonna start working on my deadlift or I'm gonna start training jujitsu more I'm and I'm just coming to 52 pops

Yeah, yeah, bro. Yeah, but like, you know kipping pull-ups No, not not not just full dead hang pull-ups how many full dead hang pull-ups can you do? I don't know probably 30 something damn. Yeah, that's a lot Are you do you do any do weighted ones at all? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I do wait with a weight belt Or do you use a vest? I have a weight belt and vests. So I have like a whole set up in your basement Is that what I'm looking at? Yeah, it's my it's my garage. Oh Yeah, it's my garage, which is you have a house. Yeah, right. I mean, yeah, it's a game changer Yeah, I hate to say it's not everyone can can make that happen people live in cramped quarters

But man if you can even just get a pull-up bar and maybe a set of rings Yeah, you can do so much and then you grab yourself one kettlebell. If you have a yard and you have a kettlebell, you could do a lot. Yeah, for sure. Pull-up bars are so gigantic. Well, not really. All you need for a pull-up bar is a ceiling. No, that's what I mean.

I mean, it's so gigantic to have. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So huge to have. For sure. And also, it's so good for your shoulders just to hang. Yep. And your back. Yeah.

But if you have a pull-up bar in your house, you can do pull-ups, you can do push-ups, you can do squats, you can do, you know, all kinds of burpees and everything else, sit-ups and gut work. And you can pretty much get your whole body in really good shape without one piece of equipment. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

So when you set out your workouts, do you, do you write them down on paper? Do you just have an idea what you want to do? I do write them down cause I kind of log what I'm doing, but I'll put down, you know, whatever exercise I'm going to do or whatever bunch of exercises I'm going to do. And I'm logging down what I'm, you know, what my times are, if I'm going for time or what the weights are, if I'm going for weight and I'm, I'm pretty, I heard this the other day, so I'm going to say'm gonna say it They said Arnold was an instinctual trainer. So I I do that somewhat, you know I'm not like looking at a book and I don't plan out for three weeks or a month in advance of exactly what I'm gonna Do that day because that day I might go damn I you know, I'm not feeling that

Type of workout and I'm I need to not do it. I'm gonna do something else So I'm I use my to not do it. I'm going to do something else. So I'm, I use my, what my body's telling me somewhat. That's not to say that I go, Hey, I don't feel like doing anything to do today. So I'm not going to do it. Cause that's actually a rule that I have. If I don't feel like doing something today, I feel like I need a rest. I'll do something that day and put the rest off till the next day. Make yourself do it today. And then if you still need it tomorrow, you can take a rest, but you can't take a rest today. Not allowed. Oh, interesting.

Do that to yourself. You're your own boss. So when you write your stuff out, do you have like a log book to keep like so you could go back and track progress and you look at yourself? No. So like, say, if you're going to work out tomorrow, do you plan it out tonight? Nope. I know kind of what I'm going to do tomorrow.

Tomorrow, I'm going to do a bunch of ring. Tomorrow I'm going to do a bunch of ring dips. I'm going to do a bunch of dips. I'm going to be doing a bunch of, uh, parallette, uh, pushups. I'm going to do a ton of burpees and probably some,

that's, that's going to round it out right now. I, I have a little tweak on my knee right now, so I can't sprint. Um, like I normally would, but otherwise I do be doing some sprints in there too.

Yeah. Jiu Jitsu tweaks, right? Is that what it was? Yeah. Yes, it was fucking joints man It is in and but if you think about how much time you spend on the mat If I would have been playing basketball, yeah or playing soccer, I'd still get the same worse. Yeah, probably worse Yeah, I've been with knees relatively injury-free and this is not a bad tweak. It's just like oh, yeah a little tweak Well, that's one thing that I try to impart on people to that like strength and conditioning training

Particularly strength training it protects the joints for sure in the back and a lot of other issues I think that is why I have been relatively knock on wood injury free Because two two reasons I work out all the time and I never take like any significant amount of time off I never say I'm not gonna work out or I never just fall into a hey I went two months or even two weeks or even five days for me to for me to not work out for five days there was some kind of like something happened I was like majorly sick or I was even if I'm traveling I'll still get it done but I think that that consistency your body just is used to it and you don't, you don't get hurt as often. And you're like a hardcore metal guy, right? Like what are you listening to? I listened to, you know, I, so I grew up on the East coast listening to old school

hardcore music. Yeah. And, and you know, so metal and hardcore bands like the bad brains uh crow mags agnostic front just old school hardcore bands from from yeah from that guy john joseph is a trip yeah ahead of the crow mags he's a fucking trip man i watched this documentary about him he's in his 50s tapes up his ankles and shit before shows like he's warming up and stretching out does triathlons in between shows right wrote a book called meat is for pussies. Yeah, hardcore vegetarian He's like a hari krishna. Yeah, I got dude the the other guy the guy that founded that band the chromax He's uh he's actually a buddy my he's a jiu-jitsu guy. It's a black belt in jiu-jitsu But he's he's had a completely insane life as well his name is Harley Flanagan and he his life's been completely insane As well his name is hardly flanagan and he his life's been completely insane

Isn't it doesn't even really doesn't there's hardly there's hardly right there. I used to a great picture. Yeah, he's a mania I actually it was interesting because I just had him on on my podcast and It was a different. It was a different. You know guest for me a different genre and People you know first of all the guy you know people that listen my podcast They expect a certain type of podcast right I'm gonna talk about leadership I'm gonna talk about the military and all of a sudden I bring in this guy who's been a complete maniac And I mean he's done. You know he was Drugs, you know drug sex rock and roll. It's basically been his whole life.

And since he was like 10 years old, he was playing in a punk rock band in New York City when he was like 10 years old. Holy shit. When he was 10? When he was 10, he was smoking. Where the fuck were his parents? His mom was a hippie. His dad was a roamer. Never met and knew his dad.

And he just grew up in the streets of the lower east side of new york did you go to new york city in the 80s at all very little i fought in a tournament in new york in the 1980s i remember driving there with uh some of the guys from boston we were driving to the city and looking at it going what in the fuck is this place and new york in the 80s is completely different than it is now. It was really really bad It was filled with crime like 42nd Street down in Times Square And I when I was a kid I would go there because I was into this kind of music and I would see Hardcore shows and metal shows and you'd get off the train and you get out in 42nd Street

There'd be boot you know every two steps drugs dust crack everything and but that's where he grew up Basically without parents and then he's got just just a crazy crazy story two steps, drugs, dust, crack, everything. And, but that's where he grew up basically without parents. And then he's got a, just, just a crazy, crazy story. How old is he now? He's 50. And he's still training. So he teaches kids class at Henzo's. He's the kids instructor at Henzo Gracie in New York. Yeah. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. That's cool. But it was interesting because I had him on the podcast and it was interesting to have people that Listen to it that listen to my podcast which is very different You know you bring in basically all kinds of you could get all kinds of

Such a completely wide variety of people in here my guests have been basically War guys right Brian Stan Tim Kennedy Jody medic whose Canadian sniper wounded real bad in Afghanistan I had a guy named Colonel William reader on there who is a pilot in Vietnam got shot down and Got shot down twice actually captured in Vietnam was in captivity for a year and he's talking about He's in a in a bamboo cage with his legs shackled and he wakes up in the middle of night because the rats are eating his wounds i mean i'm bringing on guys that are just talking about not only talking about heavy subjects but they're also talking about it from you know a very uh positive perspective of life right I mean is there anyone more

positive than didn't Brian Stan right guys just like it like it just an American hero right and so then I all of a sudden out of left field I bring on Harley Flanagan and he tells his story it was really interesting to me to have people's reactions and there was a couple people that were like oh you know this was a real letdown for you to bring him on But if you hear his story you listen to the whole podcast. I mean, here's a guy who? Who you can hear it in his voice like his his heart is broken over? some of the things that he's been through in his life losing his father and his father was a was a heroin addict and his father

Died burned alive in a dumpster as he lit a fire to try and keep himself warm That's how his dad died Buried his mom. I mean, it's just it's just a tragic story But my point is that the even though I had a very few people that were like all that was you know You shouldn't have he swore literally. Hey, he swore a bunch on the podcast. That's inappropriate or whatever And then I what was really that that was kind of huh well that's that's kind of too bad to hear hear someone say that that they would have that viewpoint but what was really cool was all these other people that are very straight-laced kind

of kind of middle road American people that that listen the podcast were like dude thanks for having that guy on what a heart what a guy and it's good for me to know about that stuff and it's good for to hear someone that's been through the depths of drug addiction and hell come back out of it and do all right and and again from my perspective I think that my interaction with those kind of people when I was growing up which I certainly had you know I was a young kid going to New York and Boston going to hardcore shows and all that It'll let me see part of the world that most people don't really see and so when I got in the military

I got I was kind of used to dealing with people that people aren't used to dealing with and I think it helped me out a Lot so is it a hard managing expectations once you don't mean how many what do you do? You have like 75 episodes up already? Yeah? Yeah? That's crazy. Yeah last time you hear you had zero I Love it though. You're getting after it's it's a lot made on my podcast is a lot different than yours because I'm going deep on some subject that I'm actually gonna like I have to study and prepare for And and it's not interacting with another person most of the time most of the time I'm interacting with history

So it's it's harder for me to prepare now. Of course. You've been preparing for this podcast for 50 years, right? I mean, that's what you've been mentally preparing from getting your experiences in your background But I have to like dive into stuff and and so it is hard my my my point is yes It's hard for me to do a podcast a week. gotta read a book is it hard to manage expectations as well as getting after like because once you establish like a fan base Sometimes they have this idea in their head of what the podcast should be to them like what they want out of it And then they they can express that they don't like where you're going like I don't like that You brought this Harley guy on this guy's not what I like I like I like straight lace military guys who don't swear. This guy's a fucking nutty dude jumps around on stage. And the, my answer to that is no. And I'll tell you why

from the beginning of, you know, when you said, and it was you and it was you and Tim Ferriss, you know, both you guys said you should do a podcast. And I said, okay, cool. To this day, your podcast with Tim Ferriss, one of my all time favorite podcasts. I listened to it in my, I was cooking, I was listening to my kitchen. I was like, Jesus fucking Christ. This is a good podcast. It was intense, you know, and it was, it was so deep and intense. And I was like, I gotta, I gotta talk to this dude.

I gotta get you on. Cause I had known you like from peripherally, from Dean's fights and I was like I gotta I gotta talk to this dude I gotta get you on because I had known you like from peripherally from Dean's fights and I'd seen you around and that but I didn't know who you were you know I didn't know your story until Tim had you on yeah and and so you know Tim again when he when he pressed stop on the on the on the recorder he said you should have your own podcast and then you told me in the middle of the podcast you should have your own podcast and obviously when you two guys are telling me I should have my own podcast I'll be a complete idiot not to listen to you. Well, you did and now it's a huge success. It's hilarious I love when people listen. Yeah, everyone listen to joe. Um, don't listen to me about everything. No be selective

I'm off and wrong But as i've done it, I've done, you know, what I want to do. And if people don't like it, that that's okay. I'm okay with someone saying, Hey, you know what? You're, you know, I did. So I've done some episodes that were horrible, man. I talked about the My Lai massacre. If you don't know what that is, the My Lai massacre, you know, people talk about these atrocities that Americans commit all the time. Americans don't actually commit atrocities all the time, but we have committed some heinous atrocities. And this one is well documented. Vietnam, the My Lai Massacre. It was a company of soldiers going into a village and they raped murdered killed around 500 people just cold blood I mean it's it's heinous it's awful probably the hardest podcast that I've done because I'm a patriotic guy

and here I am talking about you know American soldiers doing heinous acts to innocent people and And so and I've done that I did do I did a podcast about the genocide in Rwanda Which was if you don't know anything about that two tribes And it's very hard for Americans to understand this the difference between these two tribes is nothing. It's just two tribes They speak the same language. They have the same they look the same They have the same religion which by the way the religion was Catholicism because they've been like converted to Catholicism Well, they went on a rampage and the Hutus which is one tribe murdered 800,000 tootsies in a hundred days with machetes with machetes So I've covered these dark and horrible things on my podcast and I and I don't even

Know really a hundred percent. Why other than this thought in the back of my mind? That I've always had which is that you have to kind of understand the darkness of the world in order to appreciate understand the darkness of the world in order to appreciate the good in the world and that's why it was really interesting to hear you talking to jordan peterson because he he covered that part you know he was saying look man is got a dark side and you won't become a good person unless you understand your dark side and and it's interesting for me because jordan peterson is clearly a And it's interesting for me because Jordan Peterson is clearly a highly intellectual and academic guy And I'm not right. I'm I'm a nug right I joined the military after high school and And yet so many of the things he says when he says them I say oh, yeah Well, that's the same thing. I stumbled upon he came across that reading the French philosopher or whatever

That's where he comes here. I came across it in life And so it's very interesting to me when I hear him say look there's darkness in the world and there's evil in the world and we have to face that and and as soon as I heard him saying that on the podcast I'm like well that's that's what I think and I can't give you the philosophical basis for it like he can but I can tell you what I've lived through and I can tell you that if you don't understand the fact that there's darkness in the world and that people human beings are capable of evil things if you don't understand that you're not going to understand the the first of all you're not

going to understand what you need to look out for in the world and what we need to be aware of as a society and as a as a race of humans but also you're not going to appreciate things in the world that are Beautiful and good and positive so With the podcast. I'm not doing it to make people happy. I'm not doing it to Make people listen. I'm not even doing it to make people listen. I'm doing it Because it's things that I've lived through. It's things that I want to understand better. And I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing.

And if people like it, then that's awesome. And if people don't want to listen to it, that's cool, too. Well, at least from my personal experience, listening to guys like Jordan Peterson or listening to yourself or listening to anybody talk about really deep, important subjects, even if you know what they're saying to be true, it reinforces it in your own mind and maybe even opens up new doors of comprehension. Jordan certainly did that with me when I was listening to him talk.

He was saying some things like, you know, like talking about dragons and dragons have gold. I was like, whoa, Jesus Christ. Like he was hitting some notes about human psychology and the reason why we behave in certain ways and the pitfalls of these certain types of behavior that I absolutely knew he was right but and maybe I'd even thought about them before but seeing them reinforced so eloquently and seeing expressed so articulately it really like it sparked life in in my mind Yeah, and even you know, he was talking about

Being a warrior right and how these guys in modern times We don't that we don't spend time being a warrior if you and I were living 500 years ago you and I would both be battle scarred and We would be used to that lifestyle people aren't used to that lifestyle now they've kind of forgotten what that feels like and so I'm that was my life I mean that was my life was to prepare for war and go fight war that was my whole life and so for me to look back on it now and hear Jordan Peterson to say like that's normal that's okay that's expected and it makes me say okay I understand now where you know kind of part of part I understand myself better

when I hear him say oh yeah this is this normal for guys to go out and fight wars this is the warrior mentality and when you come back and you tell the truth about it people will react to that in a positive way. That's what he was saying about you is like, hey Look, you're not you're not some you know academics sitting there reading a book and talking about what you're reading in the book You're like no I live I'm a fighter. I fight I've been through this stuff. I've had physical challenges That's why people are listening to what you're saying, you know, because you have that Warrior mentality in your life. Well, I think that guys like Jordan Peterson, I think that anybody that can tap into those truths that we know, you know, I just don't think we hear them enough.

I think we're inundated with so much stupid shit every day. It's so hard to get to any like real substantial truths that will positively affect both your outcome and your outlook on life. And I think guys like you, guys like Tim Ferriss is putting on all these amazing podcasts, Jordan Peterson, all these people that can express things to someone like, this podcast literally has changed my life. I mean, it's changed my thinking. I'm a totally different person than I was when I first started this podcast.

Because talking to all these interesting and fascinating people and wise people, it's been like having some crazy crash course in a million different disciplines and a bunch of different conversations and seeing the pitfalls of some people's thinking and being around people where you see the holes in their way they express themselves or the way they process information. It made me recognize the holes in my own processing and the way I used to communicate with people. I'm a better conversationalist now. And it all comes from just having these intense conversations. This, this whole podcast thing is something that I never expected in life. I never expected it was going to come along when it came along. I never expected it would be something that I would do. And I never expected it would be something I consume as much as I do. I don't even have radio anymore in my fucking car. I listen to music. If I listen to music, it's my music that I get off of iTunes or it's something that someone like a

new band that someone tells me or turns, turns me onto, but I don't listen to anybody. Like I don't listen to satellite radio. I don't listen to local radio. I listen to podcasts constantly. A hundred percent. And there's something that is and I know you even I experience Oh, so I what I'm 75 podcast deep. It's been going for a year and some change But when people come up to me now They look me in the eyes and they shake my hand. No, they know me. They know you and I kind of know them, too Like they have these shared experiences with me And I talked about this on that on that podcast about Rwanda

They talk about the fact that the first thing they do in a revolution In a coup is they want to take control of the radio? And there's this great piece in there where he says they're talking about the fact that with with TV Where he says, they're talking about the fact that with TV, you have to take what the image on the screen in your mind, your eyes process it, and then it goes into your brain. With reading, you take those words and they go in through your eyes and it processes them and it goes into your brain. But with audio, there's no filter. The words are going directly into your brain. They're unfiltered. directly into your brain they're unfiltered and so it's this that's why I think this podcast audio format is so powerful because the people that are

listening to this right now they're sitting in the room with us they're here with us and when I'm recording my podcast I'm actually talking to them and they're there and when I go out and I meet people you can absolutely feel like hey And the little inside jokes because even though my I'm talking about how dark and evil my podcast is but we have a good time Too and we have episodes that are funny and we talk about regulars We talk about jujitsu and food and everything else working out And we we have fun too and all those little inside jokes people will say the inside jokes to me that I never met this person before but but he knows exactly what I'm talking about and and

so it's it's a very very powerful medium that I think got skipped over and you know we went from radio just completely absorbed into TV and then absorbed into the internet and now all of a sudden we got to this other side where we're back to this thing that there's some reason why people used to sit around that radio and listen to those radio shows back in the day even i did you know when i was a kid for whatever reason i liked radio shows i listened to dr demento remember dr i would sit there and listen to dr demento and they'd have those little radio shows and those skits and that was a powerful medium and i knew it back then and so for me like you You know as soon as as soon as you and Tim were saying you should do your own podcast

I was absolutely I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna every you know my goal is that when people Press play on my podcast I want them to like be putting their headphones on and like stretching their neck a little bit Pressing play and then and then just going okay this this is I Want them to get absorbed in it? That's what that's not my goal Well there's also nothing else like it in terms of like that you can have you only have one guy you work with right echo Charles Just you and him yeah, so it's you and him and that's it like there's there's not like a whole team if you had a the the Audience that you have I know that you guys are shit ton of downloads now

So the that kind of audience if you are on I know that you guys have a shit ton of downloads now. So that kind of audience, if you were on a radio show, you'd have a successful radio show. So you'd be in a studio somewhere. You'd have a network behind you. You'd have to have production meetings. You'd have to have a bunch of people that would tell you what the fuck to do. I was going to say, I'd have people telling me what I could and couldn't say. I'd have people telling me to stop. You've got to do an advertisement right now

Yeah, and no and that's the beautiful thing about it And you know I know we're leaving money on the table because right now all these advertisers that come to us And they say hey Can you talk about this and can you talk about that and can you and they want to pay us money? And I'm just like nope. We're not doing it We have one we have on it because it's your your boys your company and you helped me in the beginning so and Good products, but that's it. That's all that's the only advertisements. We have not doing anybody else and So there's no one that can tell me what to do. Yeah, this is my lot to that beautiful thing

There's a lot to that there's a lot to and also not interrupting your podcast is giant Yeah, not ever never breaking up that thought. Just keeping that thing going to the end. Say, thank you very much. See you guys next week. Boom. And I just think that people get locked up in this. It's sort of almost like a trance of the way you're thinking. They're in Jocko's mind.

You're talking and they're thinking how you're thinking. They're allowing themselves to be taken on this journey, whether they're in their car, whether they're at the gym, they're absorbed in your thoughts in a very unique way. And because of the fact there's not a whole lot of other people contributing in and entering into the picture, you know, like producers and network executives and advertising agencies. And look, we've looked at the stats and Jocko, you've got to talk more about this. And you know, I mean, you could get lost in analytics and never find your true voice. But podcasts, it's almost entirely your true voice. I don't want to say low tech.

It's not low tech, but it's low. There's a small amount of voices in terms of each individual podcast. It's just your voice. And it may be like mine. It's mine and the guest and whoever else comes in. That's it. There's not a lot of other intrusion. And that's where you, I mean, singular visions is what makes something.

It's like there's a reason why Netflix does so well and the reason why a lot of these HBO shows do so well is because they leave those fucking people alone. They just go, make us Game of Thrones. We'll be back here. Go ahead. What are you going to do? Are you going to make a comedy special? You know, I did my last comedy special with Netflix. They have go make it make us Game of Thrones. We'll be back here. Go ahead Hey, what are you gonna do you gonna make a comedy special? You know I did my last comedy special with Netflix they have fucking zero notes for me zero I've never done a goddamn thing where they didn't say you can't talk about this you can't put that bit in

It's the only thing I've ever done where they said we love it. They're like that's it. Yeah, do it go kick ass Okay, like literally that was it. I love that joke. You're gonna do that one. I'll do it. Yeah I actually told that to my publisher About you know my publisher I was like, you know what the best thing about my podcast is is that no I can do whatever I want to do I can do whatever I want to do and that's what makes it. It's it's very very liberating. There's no I mean you write a book You know there someone's gonna edit that thing and they're gonna change this and they're gonna adjust that they Want the cover to look like this the podcast is

It is just you and you know even the first my first podcast came out and you know My wife lifts it listen to it and she was all stoked Because when was the last time that you sat down and talked just talk to your wife for two and a half hours, right? Yeah, it doesn't happen. It does and a half hours, right? It doesn't happen. And my wife was like, Hey, it was awesome. Like she got to know me better. I've been married to her for 20 years. She got to know me better because she got to sit and listen to me talk for two and a half hours. And now she she's listened to every single one of them. And she's, she knows, she actually knows me better than she did before the podcast started because I got a wife and four kids and jobs and

Work and travel and all that she key. I don't have time to sit there and talk to my wife for two and a half hours Hey, maybe I'm a bad person, but that's just the reality of life. Yeah Well, you know what? Honestly, when do you ever get a chance to sit like this across from someone and talk to them for three hours without checking your phone? Without anybody coming into the room with anybody interrupting you with something you have to do or someplace you have to be It's very odd in its that's one of the things that I say one of the reasons why I say that it changed my life Is because it educated me on other people's thought processes in a way that you just don't you don't get one-on-one Dialogue with people in the real and if you think about it

You know as we talk about going back to these primal things, there's a primal thing about having human conversation. And if you think about where technology is going, we don't have much human conversation. So you're a hundred percent right. Not only am I not having two and a half hour conversations with my wife, I'm not having two and a half hour conversations with anybody until I come up here and sit down with you or until I go into my podcast studio and I sit down and I have it a two and a half hour conversation with, you know, a million people that are going to sit there and listen and they're going to give

me feedback on Twitter and they're going to tell me this and they're going to tell me their story. And it's, it's very, it's a, we're filling a hole. I think there's a hole in communication right now because you know, we text each other, you you know you and me text each other yeah i text i text echo i text everybody text my wife i don't even think you and i've ever had a conversation on the phone no no never that's that's the word world we're living in people just text it's fucking weird texted we're good weird and i'd like legit things hey i gotta send you something yep here's my address boom it's just like just like that's the way it is and it's totally acceptable but there's something missing yeah and if we can't you know the next level is like we're gonna roll you know what i mean like that's the next thing

is you train together but there's there's there's a gap in in human contact right now in having conversations and i'm just thinking this right now that this the whole nature of podcasting fills that hole and if you look at the podcasts that do well it's podcasts that are conversationalist unless you go with the podcast that's highly produced and they got they you know because like radio lab yeah all those ones that are highly produced and even the ones that are produced by you know npr so they have real money behind them and they're they're a different thing but for normal dudes that are just sitting around and talking those are popular podcasts that's why Tim Sam Harris those guys are sitting around and talking and explaining stuff because that doesn't

exist anymore in the in the day-to-day life for a lot of people you know what else doesn't exist in a day-to-day life what a place where it's okay to be a man it's actually okay to be a man it's okay to be a man. It's actually okay to be a man. It's okay to have man thoughts. Everybody is so toned down and neutered. It's like human resources and corporate life has watered down people's natural behavior to the point where people are just dying on the inside,

sitting in these fucking cubicles, rotting, just freaking the fuck out, having all these thoughts they can't entertain, having to pretend to be someone they're not all day long, putting on this bullshit way of talking, this fake way of thinking. Everybody's got to subscribe to whatever fucking ridiculous policies their company wants to enforce. And you're just a robot and you get out of there and you just want to scream. Yeah, or you want to listen to some guys talk about some real shit real shit Yeah, and then go fuck how come I can't talk about real shit You know that's another reason why I wrote the kids book because the kids book instead of you know it being about

Hey, if someone's picking on you go and tell the teacher It's like no actually if somebody's picking on you learn to defend yourself and kick their ass if needed that's that that hasn't been said that's another reason i wrote the book i i went i've told this story before but i went and got some book for my kid when he was little my one son and three daughters i went and got a book from his it was like a pirate book right and i'm thinking cool pirates are gonna burn stuff take over villages and steal things this will be awesome and I read the book and it's just complete These guys are complete you know pathetic. They're pathetic. They're not a fake pirate. They're fake pie They're not manly pirates right and I just was so embarrassed the book. I don't know some I don't even remember I threw it away

You know if you can't learn from a pirate that you got to go out and like crush some things sometimes Then we got to just check ourselves because guess what life is that's what life is that's another thing that we shield kids from these Days life is hard. Yeah, you don't get a trophy you don't get it. There's no such thing as a trophy for participation That's fake. It's a lie Doesn't exist you can't learn your times tables guess what you need to work and study You don't get put into a special class and get a tutor and maybe you get eight You know you got some special help to get no you need to work and make that happen You don't know don't don't know how to swim guess what that doesn't mean you stay away from the water

No, you learn how to swim you step up you man up That's what you do, so that's another reason why I wrote the book so that people can actually the kids can learn that Life is hard and in order to deal with life you got to be hard Yeah, and just this idea that life is hard something. You're supposed to shield from them It's so silly and you know I've had this conversation with my friends because Everybody that I know that's interesting had a fucked up life but but now we have kids and the last thing we want is our kids to have a fucked up life so we put our kids in these good schools we live in these nice neighborhoods everybody eats healthy and there's no fucking domestic

violence and everybody seems it's it's so different than all of our lives and we were talking about it me and brian Callen were actually talking about it. Like, look, we all had fucked up childhoods and everybody we know had fucked up childhoods. And they're all interesting. But I don't want my kids to be boring, but I also want them to be safe. So it's like, how do you approach that? I mean, I think you get involved. What I've chosen to do is get my kids involved in martial arts and and and and give them the opportunity to pursue difficult things and understanding

That through pursuing these difficult things like in Accomplishing stuff like you you learn something about yourself you learn that you have this ability inside of you to overcome I've got this statement that I made on my podcast about kids and I said if you're helping your kids you're hurting them And if you think about it right and the example I gave is like tying your kid's shoe if you tie your kid's shoe You're you're actually Taking away the opportunity in their life to develop their fine motor skills of tying a shoe You're actually taking that away from them Yeah, and it's the same with everything make your own sandwich make your own bed clean your own room

You need to do this stuff for yourself. And when I'm helping you, I'm hurting you. So I think we can protect them without just completely coddling them and making sure that every issue that ever could present itself to them has been eliminated. Yeah. Because you're going to end up with some weak kids. Yeah. And if those kids have to compete with some kid who's had to take care of himself their

whole life, that kid's going to be ferocious. Yeah. And if those kids have to compete with some kid who's had to take care of himself their whole life, that kid's going to be ferocious. Yeah. You're going to have a feral kid competing against your little soft fleece lined kid. Yeah. No, that's, that's why some of those competitive sports are, are so important. You know, whether it's, and martial arts are great. Wrestling's great. Jiu Jitsu, but you know, football, basketball, anything that puts you in those challenging positions where you're going to have to step up, you're going to get ground out. And like my, one of my daughters wrestles and yeah, and she is, you know, this is the same one that got stage fright and to see her step up and, you know, we live a pretty good life, right? I mean, it's, we live in Southern California. We live in a nice house. It's, it's, it's, it's a nice living, right? It's a very comfortable situation.

Some of the hardest times that she's been put through is on the wrestling mat and having to step up against some girl, like the exact girl you're talking about, some girl from the barrio in San Diego that's a tough-ass girl that's been through the ringer and has domestic violence going on in her house, and her one escape from all that

is to come out and wrestle against some other girl and beat her down so my daughter has to step up and do that and it's it's an incredible thing it's it's it's incredibly powerful and empowering even i watched her change you know when she would be intimidated by in those situations to where now she's like bring it bring it i got something for you. That's awesome, man. Um, we were almost three hours in here. So anything else that you got a whole, you're the only guys ever showed up, I think with this many notes. Yeah. Well, so what I want to do is now if we can spend the next four hours going through my notes, we hit, we hit all kinds of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I was driving up here taking notes on, uh, on the Jordan Peterson podcast.

I think everyone should listen to that. It's a great podcast to listen to. And there's so many points that he covers in there that are really profound and I think important today. Well, he's dealing with a very unusual situation where those coddled soft kids are now in universities. And they're trying to run the show with these ridiculous programs of inclusion and diversity and you know forcing their mindset down everybody else's throat it's really fascinating yeah it's uh fascinating and disturbing to see all that happening and it's really yeah it's it's actually disturbing to see that happening and see kids could be focused on such important things in

the world and they end up focusing on something that is borderline In many cases borderline, you know meaningless, you know launch. Let's let's move towards a real goal There's diseases to cure and you know, yeah good things to do in the world Well, you know, I think everybody agrees that racism is bad and homophobia is bad But that's not exactly what you're dealing with here. What you're dealing with is people trying to control the way other people behave and talk and think. And it might not even be in response to any actual real, like, negative things that have happened. It's like they're trying to create negative things to battle that might not even be there.

There's just a lot of weirdness today in this world And I think that to bring it back full circle a lot of this weirdness comes from a lack of true struggle Like do you think that these kids that are growing up in Russia that are doing backflips off of the top of buildings are they? Dealing with the same like you know diversity lectures and classes that they have to handle? And I think there's an intrinsic part of human beings that wants to be part of a tribe of some kind and wants to defend their tribe. And when you grow up in a place where there's no real tribe,

then you look for one to latch onto. And these people over here, they have a cause and they've got a tribe and you can be part of that tribe and then you can lash out at the bad guys. And I think that happens a lot. And I think it's, uh, it's unfortunately unfortunate because it really crushes, you know, individuality, which is what I, you know, that's my kind of my premier base, you know, thoughts are around individual freedom, be an individual thing for yourself, free your mind. Yeah. There's a lot of

like comfort in those groups that these people belong to whether it's you know Any kind of group whether it's a hardcore right-wing group or a hardcore left-wing group you get in you kind of know what the rules Are and you play by those rules and then you you surround yourself with a bunch of like-minded people in an echo chamber who also? Support the fact that these rules are the rules and we have to get these out there and like I think we just can you just? Establish there's a bunch of shit You shouldn't do don't steal from people don't rape anybody don't you know don't shoot anybody like figure out a way We can harmoniously get along together without fucking with each other You know and then just let everybody be whatever they are if you're gay you're gay if you like listening to fucking classical music

And and running naked through the streets. I don't care. Don just don't fuck me yeah just don't you know don't cause trouble don't you know and again that's just you're talking about individual freedom yeah be yourself man what i'm you know what's what is what i like individual freedom do what you want to do hard for insecure people to allow that to happen because into insecure people when they see individual freedom that's contrary to what their own personal behavior is like they they have to question themselves and challenge themselves. They decide that that person's wrong and these people are wrong and I'm right and this needs to be established and we need to fight and we need to, you know, go out and punch Nazis or whatever the fuck they think they're supposed to be doing. And it just gets real weird, man. Yeah, it's weird than when that becomes your whole life.

Yeah. And I'm sure you get this, I get it a lot, which is people on social media that want me to weigh in on this thing, or they want me to weigh in on this side, or they're attacking me because of this or attacking me because of that. Not so much attacking, but people want me to weigh in on things all the time. And it's things that I just say, man isn't affecting me and and not only that my comments aren't going to move this forward and finally I don't care about that thing I understand that you're obsessed with it but I'm not I don't I'm not obsessed with this thing that you're obsessed with so I don't even care that you're obsessed with that's cool and when people ask me

hey sounds good you know something go keep keep keep doing what you're obsessed with. So I don't even care that you're obsessed with it. That's cool. And when people ask me, hey, sounds good. You know, keep doing what you're doing. Sounds great. Not my thing. Move on. People get obsessed with things that they won't even be obsessed with a few years later.

Like, hey man, I got obsessed about that thing that you were obsessed with and now I'm like you. No man, I'm not even obsessed about that anymore. I'm on to some new shit. Yeah, go get obsessed with kettlebells and jujitsu. Start that out.

Yeah, get obsessed with life improvement. Find things that you enjoy doing that are difficult. Do them and get better at them. Seems so simplistic. It seems like a ridiculous, idealistic point of view,

but it's effective. Yeah, you will be happier and you will be a more positive influence on everyone around you. Yeah, and be nice to people not so hard Jocko willing ladies and gentlemen Tell everybody how they can get your podcasts

Podcast Jocko podcast is the name of the podcast. It's available everywhere New book is called way of the warrior kid old book is called extreme ownership You can get those everywhere. They sell books Muster, which is a leadership event in Austin, Texas. Then we got one in San Diego. ExtremeOwnership.com for those two. I'll see you on the interwebs. Thanks, Joe. And go on Instagram and check out his watch.

Jocko Willink, ladies and gentlemen. We'll see you soon. Later. We'll see you next time.