The Joe Rogan Experience - #981 - Josh Barnett

Episode Date: June 28, 2017

Josh Barnett is a mixed martial artist and professional wrestler who competes in the Heavyweight division of the UFC.

As soon as we go live, five seconds. Now Josh was just telling me about how he's going to start his own cult. Yes, for sure, absolutely. You know, everything else just seems like fucking work to me, so. Yeah, starting your own cult, if you can pull it off. The key is to not take it too far. Don't get too crazy, you know. I don't know if I have that ability though, man.

I'm sitting here wearing, you know, black metal T-shirts and listening to crazy-ass music. I think taking it too far is kind of in my nature. You still driving the muscle car? Oh, yeah. Every day, man. All about muscle cars. Muscle car plus, in this traffic, still drives a manual. Yeah.

That's gangster. Six-speed. That's your number one method of transportation. If you're driving a manual transmission in fucking Orange County, you still in Orange County? No, no, no, no, no. I've been out of Orange County for a while. Where you at now?

I was in downtown for a while, and then now I live in Hollywood. Like a vampire. Kind of. Also getting a lot of extra sparring in with hobos and knives and stuff like that. Were you in the bad area of downtown? Well, you know what? Here's the thing about the bad area of downtown. It doesn't stay in the bad area of downtown is there well you know what here's the thing about the bad area of downtown it doesn't stay in the bad area of downtown that's so true you know it's uh it's like oh this is a really nice oh we got our quaint little lofts and la-di-da it's like by

the way you see that schizophrenic crackhead he's gonna fuck your shit up you know it's like hancock park you know where hancock park is hancock park is fucking amazing it's like Hancock Park. You know where Hancock Park is? Hancock Park is fucking amazing. It's like one of the most beautiful sections of LA. But you can go two blocks down, you got gang graffiti. Yeah. Like two blocks down, you're in some sketchy area. Like as soon as you get out and you start going east further, like you get some fucking sketchy neighborhoods within a mile of these like 1920s mansions of old hollywood money i mean those things are incredible right and to me it's just like wow it's the most fantastic tourist guide

ever like hey come to la you might get fucked or you might not please roll the dice let's see how this works out yeah if you want to walk through downtown la you could you could take a wrong turn and be in a Walking Dead episode. You could be just strolling down 7th. Everything's looking great. You're passing 7 Grand and Malo and all this stuff. And then all of a sudden, oh shit, where the hell am I? That guy's got a tent, but I don't really think he's camping.

Yeah, people who think that their downtown is fucked up, you don't even know what fucked up is. You need to see Skid Row. Like, people who don't see, I've shown people Skid Row, and they go, that's not real. I go, no, that's real. It looks fake as fuck. It looks like an episode of The Walking Dead. And the first time I drove through it,

and there was like some, and I'm seeing all these just people just milling about, and it must have been later in the night, like not super late, but getting to probably six or seven or it's because at some point there there's this mission or something down there and it's got this gated courtyard and at some point they closed that gate and there was just people inside the courtyard and there were people outside of the courtyard that was like clamoring to get into this thing and it was just insanity i go fuck man this is straight out of like some sort of dawn of the dead what have you like you if you get in by a certain

amount of time you're locked in stay in there yeah I guess whatever shit so like some people like they got to get away from the crazy people on the street I guess or they probably get someplace to sleep and eat and what have you you know and you know tell each other songs isn't it weird that we look at people like that we'll go yeah you're you're a loser like all you people we're not going to help you well and see it's easy to to do that because to look at the situation on a far more complex level you know looking for what all the the issues that can write into this i mean a majority of these people are probably mental health you know issues patients sure So they're crazy to simplify it.

And then they get into these, you know, let's say drugs come into play or other things. I mean, they just they need help. Right. Yeah. And there are some people there that maybe they are just total fucking down and outers that they just gave up on life in one way or another, got hooked on something or hooked on something else. on life in one way or another, got hooked on something or hooked on something else. But I mean, at the end of the day, it's much easier for people to just look at it as like, these guys are losers.

There's losers of the system. And I'm some sort of a winner. But I mean, in a way, some of these people were born losers then, I guess, because they didn't get to choose to be born with schizophrenia or any of these other sort of things. Yeah. Abusive childhoods. There's a whole host of factors that plays into someone being like that. But it's weird how someone gets to a certain age, like you're 35 and you're a homeless person. Sorry, dude, can't help you.

If you're like 10. If you're 10 on the street and you're homeless, we're like, oh, come on, buddy. You're a little scam. You're a little help this little guy. You're a little scam. Yeah, his parents left him and he didn't have any food. He's got a really cute newsboy cap. He just seems so scrappy.

You know, I think I'd like to make him my sidekick. And we're going to travel around the world. He's got a dog that travels with him everywhere. He's got a bag on the end of a stick. Yeah, look at that bindle, man. He's been places. That was the move that they had. Here's, this is, we're looking at video right now on YouTube.

What's the name of this video? It's pulled up like Skid Row. It says homeless on Skid Row in Los Angeles, all in caps, and it's fucking crazy. It's a whole series of homemade tents that these people put together. They've created these little apartments, little structures, and they're on the street. This is a pretty good video of it, just shows you how weird it is, but it's way crazier at night. Well, it's even, this just shows you, we're just looking down one street. Yeah, and we're only looking at like a few structures.

It's like a little square radius of streets that encapsulate this area. And, you know, I mean, some people are like, well, oh yeah, it's not really that dangerous. I'm like, well, I guess it really depends on the person. Personally, I wouldn't stroll around down there. I feel like I'll be all right, but why increase my likelihood of having some sort of issue, especially if somebody is literally crazy. It's really not a matter of whether they're a jerk or whatever. It's just they're operating in an unstable, irrational way. So there's no way to negotiate that very well.

No way to negotiate it. No way to even know if it's going to happen. Right. And when someone's completely bonkers, is this some guy doing it on his bike? Yeah, he's riding his bike through it. Whoa, that dude's got skills. He's got some bike skills.

But he's got pegs on the front of his bike. Yeah, he does. See? What is a peg? Oh, the bunny pegs in the front. So maybe he could pick up a guy. Like, grab one homeless dude. See that shit? Put him on the front, and then they could go run around. With a steering wheel?

Is that not impressive? That handlebar thing he just did? That shit's incredible. Bart, yeah. It's not incredible? No, I was going to say, I can't do it. But is that like a standard move? Josh Barnett, do you know how to ride a bike?

You know, I do know how to ride a bicycle. Probably not to the level of this guy he keeps doing that flipping the bar around that's fucking that's pretty wild it's like having a fidget spinner except if you fuck it up

you're falling down you're just eating shit and losing teeth yeah I don't ride bikes much like that bam that shit's incredible

he's using it to camera edit too it's actually pretty good it sure is wow wee oh that's pretty slick that shit's incredible. He's using it to camera edit too. It's actually good. It sure is. Wow. Whee! Oh, that's pretty slick. Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic and then it's not a simple situation

to solve either, right? You know, it's like some people would easily just look at it like, oh, let's get rid of them. It's like, well, you can't just do that with somebody. I mean, that's not the way to do it. Is there a way to reprogram someone?

I think it... I forget who the quote was by, uh, some famous dude, Frederick Douglas, but he said it's, uh, it's much easier to raise good children than to repair broken men. I can believe that. Yeah. You know, we have, it's, it's always harder to take a fighter with a bunch of bad habits and try to cure them of that or re-establish new good habits than it is to just start off teaching them something correct from the fucking get-go. Yeah, you always see that for whatever reason with kicking technique. With kicking technique, like a lot of guys that come from like bad backgrounds, they have a really hard time, like maybe karate to Muay Thai, a real hard time transitioning

over. And like I would see it even in taekwondo guys who came from a karate background didn't understand the importance of raising the knee up above the hip it's like when things got weird they couldn't pick their knee up for certain kicks and it also i guess it would depend a lot on the style of karate so like one of my guys shohei yamamoto is uh he's a junior world champion in kyokushin he was the youngest ever to compete in the world open weight tournament at 18 years old. Wow. And he was like 190 pounds when he did it.

180 at 18 years old, just fighting. Holy shit. You know, like your Glover Teixeiras and guys like that. Yeah, Kyokushin's crazy too when you watch those guys punch full blast to the body, but kick to the head, like not punching to the face. I don't know where that really came about necessarily, but yeah. Yeah, you can kick him full on to the body, but kick to the head, like not punching to the face. I don't know where that really came about necessarily, but yeah, you can kick him full on in the face, knee him in the face, things like that, but don't throw a punch to the face.

You know what it's like? His kicks are pretty awesome. It's like the next level of Taekwondo. It's like Taekwondo, they said you couldn't punch to the face, but you could kick above the waist. And Kyokushin was like, how about we kick the legs too? And elbow. And elbow.

And they're like, okay, okay. So it's better. Plus, it doesn't get stopped as much. Even though Taekwondo is supposed to be continuous, like Olympic style. Guys clinch. Yeah, they clinch or a point gets scored and the ref will kind of,

you know, there's always these little breaks that seem to happen. Yeah. You know. Yeah, it's interesting because I always feel like for little kids especially, what's really good about Taekwondo is the same thing that's really good about gymnastics. Yes, body control and flexibility.

Break dancers. Right, I think Taekwondo can be really great for that as well. I think a lot of, if you're going to do Taekwondo or really a lot of these traditional martial arts, it really depends on that teacher. That makes it or breaks it. I mean, you could have like some old Tae-kyung, like gnarly old Korean dude who is going to teach you how to punch the face and throw people and all kinds of stuff, but maybe gear your competition training towards the rule set that's allowable.

Or you could just have some dude that just wants you to flip around and scream to get your points, which is the most ridiculous. It's almost up there with like flopping and soccer It's like flopping and soccer's hit some new levels lately people They know that I think it's hilarious So some dude sent me one and the guy doesn't even get hit the other guy like throws his hand back It doesn't even come near him and the guy launches himself through the air writhing on the ground

I've never seen anything like it. What is it that, how does one graduate to that position? You know, here I'm out here, I'm playing a sport at, let's say, the highest level, and I'm competing against other incredible athletes, and we train our asses off, and we develop all these skill sets, and we get so good at handling a ball with our feet, and not even for foot fetish stuff but but just to play this game and i'm gonna now concede in such a way like completely destroy all the toughness all the grit all the work all the all the things that i've developed mentally to to be able to run and kick and do all

this stuff and build up all these wind sprints. And then I'm just going to see a guy swat his hand at me. And then I'm going to fling myself on the ground and scream bloody murder. They flap like fish. I don't get it. They flap around the ground and twist and writhe in agony. There's like a mental disconnect that has to happen. Like you must just like, I'm going to bitch myself out right now.

I'm going to completely myself out right now. I'm going to completely just destroy every element of toughness within me. I think they're just willing to do anything to get some sort of an advantage. And I don't know what, I don't understand soccer. I don't know the rules. So I don't know what kind of an advantage you would get if you fouled. Penalty shots. Penalty shot. Yeah.

So you would get, like, pretty close to the goal. Yeah, they get to take a shot on goal or something like that. That's pretty sweet. It is. That's worth too much. Personally, on goal or something like that. That's pretty sweet. It is. That's worth too much. Personally, I just couldn't do it. Couldn't do it. I think it's worth too much.

I think what you've got to do is if somebody does foul you, if somebody actually fouls you, that guy just gets removed and they bring in a new player. It seems pretty simple. Well, yeah, yeah. Reduce the element there in terms of what the reward is and the risk. Or you see people flopping, penalize them. Right, 100%.

Yeah, that guy's for a year. Yeah, you're slowing the game down, and you're making us look like shit, so stop. People are talking about you on podcasts, bro. It's not good. People don't watch soccer. They have no idea what happened in that game. That game might have been for the championship of the world between the two greatest teams of all time.

I don't know about that. Nah. I just know that dude flopping around. What are you laughing at, Jamie? A referee flopped on this video. A referee flopped? Get the fuck out of here. Do they call it flopping or are we making that up?

No, it's called flopping. They call it flopping? In soccer, they actually call it taking a dive. Oh. Taking a dive. Interesting. That's the English way to say it. All right.

All right. Oh. Oh, no way. Oh, no way. Oh, my God. That is hilarious. Are you kidding? Oh, my God. Watch this one.

That is hilarious. Oh, I'm so hurt. Oh, God. And the guy standing right there, that's the thing. The ref has to just... Which knee did he grab? Did he grab the right knee or the left knee? Oh, now they flop out of the huddle? Did he land on his right knee?

Okay, that guy might have blown his knee out. Hold on. Go back to the ref. Because the ref might have blown his knee out. Because I'm looking at the way he falls. Like, watch the... Not this guy. The next guy.

That guy. Here, watch this. Nah. He's standing around, then he just leaps onto the ground. One more time. Oh, and he starts grabbing his shin. No, I think he's grabbing his knee. Nah, he might be a bullshit artist. He's fucking bullshit. This guy flops out of a huddle. That's ridiculous.

It's almost as if these guys are so attuned to any touch that once they feel it, they immediately just dive. They fall down. They cry. That was just a guy tripping. If it's in that box, that's where you get the penalty shot, and that can literally change the whole game. Oh, he didn't even touch him. He just fell on his own right next to him. Oh, so people just fall down when they get in there. He just fell on his own right next to him. Oh, so they just try to fall down and get hurt.

Oh, that's hilarious. So what was that? The guy just stopped, and the other guy used him as a tripping mechanism. Because if you can get the right card, you can get a guy taken out of the game, and then you're at a huge advantage for the rest of the game. If you can manipulate a ref in an MMA fight, which you kind of can I suppose but like you can't get the Other guy just DQ'd all the time. There's definitely rules for that and here you just got a trick a guy Did you see that? It's like there's like an understood of like yeah, we're fucking with the game right now

We're pretending to be hurt all the time. This is hilarious What is the name of this video Jamie? This is just like best flops or funny dives of 2017 2017 funny dives and simulation. That's just this year. Oh, that's hilarious. Well, see, some of them they're exaggerating. This is not the best edit because some of these guys are just getting tripped. I mean, they're just falling.

Like that guy's just falling. Like this is a stupid edit. These are also the best athletes of all time. Like they shouldn't be just falling. Oh, okay. I see what you're saying there. Yeah, but the best athletes of all time. Like they shouldn't be just falling. Oh, okay. I see what you're saying there. Yeah, but people fall, you know? I mean, the other ones, there's so many of these that are like that.

That shit is so ridiculous. Look, oh my God, I can't take it. I mean, that shit is so funny. It's like there's a culture of falling and pretending you're hurt. There's a little, there could be. I mean, I don't know if they really are because it probably takes away from their stature as an athlete, but getting in these videos where you're just getting shown all over the internet again and again and again.

Honestly, a couple of these were guys doing goofy stuff and then laughing about it as like, ha ha ha ha, like this is just what we do, we pretend to be hurt all the time. Yeah. So it's some sort of an accepted culture with, oh my God. The guy just falls down. And so it's some sort of an accepted culture with, oh my God. The guy just falls down. It's accepted within the culture of playing the game as much as I can understand.

Now that guy taking a dive made sense because he saw the other dude rolling. Oh, that's great. These guys just touched faces and then fell to the ground like they got hit with meteors. There's snipers out there just in the audience audience just picking them off. It's so crazy. They just fall down like in agony. Oh, look at this guy. He's like, look at this guy just falling down. What are you doing?

You're doing that thing. Stop doing that. God, they have to revamp their rules. Yeah, clearly. They started fining people that were doing it, but I think they sort of cut back on the fines. They tried to make it monetarily not a good thing to do. I know Ian Edwards

loves soccer, and I love Ian, and he's trying to get me to do a soccer companion, but I feel like about soccer, what I do about speaking Latin, it's just some shit that's just left over from a long-ass time ago. It's probably good if we still remember how to do it. So we don't want to not know what Latin is and like what the word.

We don't want to get so confused that we think this is like some forgotten language. Sure. Especially since it's within all of our scientific texts and all that. But that shit's nonsense, right? Yeah, that's nonsense. I would rather learn Latin than learn how to flop, how to fake injuries. I just, I don't know about that. But you respect an actual skillful soccer player.

Those guys are awesome athletes. That's actually what makes it so disappointing is that I know how good those dudes are. I know that they must be super talented and great, very skillful and in great shape. super talented and great, very skillful and in great shape, to then take, to get yourself to that level, to let's say elite level at your sport, at your skill set. Did you ever see Aldo? Who?

Jose? What about Aldo? Play soccer? Oh, I'm not surprised. Amazing. Yeah, I bet. Like professional level. Do you think he would flop?

Nope. I cannot see that happening. I don't think so. I cannot see that happening. I don't think so. That's probably what held him back. He's too busy throwing low kicks. Instead of kicking the ball, he's just chopping people's legs out from under him. Yeah, there's some video of him playing and moving around, and he's fucking really good. Which, where's Aldo?

That was him doing the ball flip. Oh, yeah. Yeah, watch this. Look at that. That's one of the best players in the, yeah. Watch this. Look at that. That's one of the best players in the world. He did it against Neymar. Now, do you think they're just playing and having a good time here? Yeah, it's a charity match. Right.

They're just sticking around. But still, look at this. I don't think. He's just like, okay. The other guy's like, look, I ain't running for real, dude. I have actual games to play. I'm not blowing out my ACL trying not to get punked by an mma fighter right exactly it's like okay you can have this moment but i've seen videos of him

practicing and playing he's like like a real professional soccer player you're looking at him you're like wow yeah it didn't surprise me in the least oh is that jose yeah he jose just he's kicking three pointers in or he's trying at least hey that would never happen for me never i played like little intramural soccer in college for a second just like these pickup games with all the international kids i just thought it'd be a good way to get in shape i didn't know really much about playing soccer so aren't you too big uh i don't know if there's really a too big. From moving around that much?

Well, there's also the not good enough. There's that part, too. When these dudes from Scotland and Argentina and all over who would play all their AAA leagues and stuff. I'm out there playing defense. And I could hustle. I had quick feet. And I wasn't movable. So that was kind of good.

But at one point uh they my team kept trying to get it I get an opportunity for me to score on goal and I'm like no no quit you know I got good enough to dribble and pass it away a little bit don't fucking ask me to kick this thing it's never going to go where I want it to and you know it's just careening off everywhere and plus this dude from Argentina was just all over me every single time I'm like everyone else is like oh it'd be funny if he could be great if he could get a shot. And this guy's like, fuck that. I'm going to fucking, I'm on him like stink on shit.

Am I wrong in thinking that there's like a build that would excel at football? Yeah, I think so. I could think so. And then I would think that soccer would require, because you run so much. I would think tall and lanky would be good for soccer or even maybe just a long leg, short torso. Yeah, but that Messi guy is really small, right? That could be good too.

Super fast footwork. Just being very quick. Just being very quick and very agile. But I was just thinking tall because then you get more headers, more body up top. Let me ask you this as a proponent of violence. How come rugby never took off here? That seems to me to be the real sport.

You know, I don't really know why. I think because American football is American football, maybe that's why. It seems kind of stupid in a way because you have a helmet on and pads and you're running into each other and we already know that

that's not a good idea. It isn't. It actually makes it worse. Way worse. Right? You can hit harder. Unless they've figured out some new technology, which I know they're working on some impact-resistant helmets and things that, which that kind of changes everything. If they do that and they get it to the point where guys can collide heads and actually be okay.

I don't know. I don't really think. I just, they can get these helmets that are going take the impact uh and reduce it and all that but i just once you're a 300 pound dude running a 47 smashing into uh another 300 pound dude i just don't you know it's just like i would get in the arguments with the uh with like these kids uh at the university of montana rugby team like you should come out play rugby you should play rugby I'm like no I want to fight and you know rugby seems fun and all that but and oh what's did you play football yeah I played football oh this is way tougher I go uh hold on uh the pool you're drawing from I'm sure there's some good athletes the pool we were drawing from

when I'm going to University of Washington football camp or when I'm playing against nationally ranked teams like O'Day, this is different. Who they're drawn from is a much, much bigger pool. The stakes for them are much, much bigger than you and your college team floating around and then drinking beers after your games. This is not like that. This is a different story. Yeah, especially someone that has a potential nfl career and they're like super focused you know if you look at the some of the super athletes that you get

that enter the nfl today that just the sheer size and speed that these guys have and it's only so much that can be genetics you've got like some serious training involved and dedication yes like they know how much money's involved. Exactly. And there are people that are grooming these athletes from a super young age to meet these requirements. And so I was like, look, rugby is super awesome. It's tough. It's a great sport.

I like rugby league way better than rugby union because union's got all the scrumming and all that. It slows down. League is seven tackles, I believe. That's all you get? That's all you get. But it's constant. You'reumming and all that. It slows down. What's the difference? League is seven tackles, I believe. That's all you get? Yeah, that's all you get. But it's constant. You're constantly moving up the field.

What if you go more than seven? You don't. Once you hit seven, you have to drop the ball, and then it changes over. Oh. But it moves super fast, and it's very aggressive. And it's like watching people play Wishbone the whole time. They're just constantly taking each other down. Yeah.

And so, you know, they're hitting. Boom, this tackle happens. And they're going to try and shuttle the ball back to their other teammate. Then shove the ball down the line again and keep it moving until they can finally break through. Whereas watching the other one, to me, it slows down way too much. So I don't really enjoy it. Which, you know, that's kind of the argument with American football is that it slows down and to me I'm like

American football is like watching two armies go at it you set you have your skirmish you regroup you skirmish again you regroup

you skirmish again and by the end of all these skirmishes the war is either is won or lost by this team that's the way I look at it but

well you know that was designed to sort of placate people from. Well, that's all games are designed to be a diminishing aspect of war. But American football in particular was actually literally systematically designed. We know the time that it happened. There's a whole Radiolab podcast on it. Oh, okay.

It's pretty fascinating, man. And about how they ran into problems when they let American Indians play with white kids. Oh, yeah? The natives are just fucking all the white kids up. They had some brutal-ass games, the natives did. Fuck yeah, they did. That's some gnarly shit. Did they eat their hearts?

Was that kind of part of the problem? I don't know what the problem was, but it was an issue. I dig it. It was an issue. I would have loved, you know, I had Steve Rinella on recently, and he was talking about the guys who killed Custer in Little Bighornorn and one of these guys was just this massive guy what is the name mall is that they called them gall gall and he went on to uh i think i read that wild he was a conan book right that's call call the conqueror you're thinking of right but this guy

was apparently just massive and i mean i would have loved to like seen that with my own eyes like what it looks like to be like a direct lineage of warrior culture like if that guy was living in the 1800s like he is directly from the original native americans that came here from siberia you know, whatever, thousands and thousands of years ago. That would be something. Fuck, yeah. Chief Seattle, which my fucking phone don't work, fuck it, he had some quote about being at a football game at the University

of Washington. He was, and I can't for the life of me remember exactly how it goes, but it was just like, oh, saw a lot of white men fight each other today. I don't know why the hell you guys are into this, but whatever. Yeah, they didn't really have that kind of a game. There's something uniquely brutal about American football.

There is. But when I look at rugby, I'm like, okay, that to me seems more realistic. It is more realistic, I think, in some ways. It's more brutal in some and less in others sort of like MMA versus maybe kickboxing yeah well and the thing is one of my arguments with the rugby kids is like dude you don't get hit as hard as you do

in American football as you're doing here in rugby you're not plus the athletes are smaller and you know go do a kickoff guys talk about fucking insane. But what do you think would happen if, like, what if by some crazy reason people decided,

hey, look, we're going to no longer do American football. We're going to do rugby. I just hope it's rugby league. I just hope it's rugby league. I don't totally understand the difference between the two of them. I would have to watch a few games, I guess. But those guys who dominate in football, wouldn't you think they would be the guys who dominate in rugby?

Yeah, I do. So everybody would just get bigger and faster and stronger. Yep. It would be just like American-level football players. Pretty much. Because if we're talking that everybody would switch over to rugby, that means all these rugby teams in the league and all that would then be the ones with all the big merchandise deals and the TV deals. And all the money would funnel into it.

And therefore, the potential prosperity of it would drive the interest for people to try and apply their wares. It being not only a part of that hero myth that would come with being a champion football team player, you know, or rugby team player, team player, you know, or rugby team player, but also with the hero myth of just being a part of that within, you know, your normal society, you're of this elite exception, exceptional status, this thing that stands alone, that it seems a bit foreign to your normal person, but also the money and the success that comes from that kind of notoriety and the doors that it opens in terms of, um, you know, to use a overused word,

the privilege of being at that level at, within that inner circle of exceptional or seen as exceptional people. Anyways, do you think what's the short drive it? What's the show? You've had a long career in MMA, 20 years, long,

successful career, but it's very rare. Yeah. And it's very rare for someone to be operating at the same level that you're operating at now. Seven years is like the cutoff. Like once you get to about seven, everything starts to just rapidly decline. Like you just fall to shit. Do you think it's an injury thing? Is it a training thing?

Is it just a life thing? They didn't, or at least they weren't able to single out any particular factor in general. But, you know, there was a lot of theories as to why that might be. But they were able to track professional fighters' careers over length of time. I think they had some metric. Who did the study? I don't remember. But it's on the Internet.

I don't remember, but it's on the internet. I do believe that they were able to account for a number of fights too and weigh that against that metric and see how that may influence things. But seven years was this magic number, like six, seven years. And once you start going over seven years, your percentage of success started just crumbling. It was dramatic about how a guy would be 13 13 and 3 and he'd get to 7 years and all of a sudden it's like 13 and 6, 13 and 7, 13. He just starts losing just about everything. Yeah. BJ Penn's a good example of that, right? You know, there's a certain drop-off where the person just looks totally different.

Well, and we could honestly look, we would have to isolate a lot of different factors to figure out any one particular thing. But there's so many elements that go into being a professional fighter and being successful at that. And so for, let's say, we'll take BJ, maybe it is physicality.

Maybe he's lost a little bit of a step. His reactions are a little slower through any number of reasons why. Maybe his strength has diminished maybe slightly or his flexibility. Maybe certain physical elements, regardless of injury or not, have diminished enough that

at where they used to be it was an edge. Where it is now is evened out or is below what is necessary for him and how he fights to be successful. Maybe it could be beyond physical deterioration. Maybe it's just mental motivation. Yeah, exactly.

So maybe he's just not as motivated to push in the same ways that he was, or maybe he's not able to, I don't know, recognize things that he was five years ago, six years ago, and seeing those opportunities and being able to react on them quicker. There's a number of things, and especially when it comes to mental. Now you're getting into such a subjective area that, you know, go pull that apart. Yeah, that's a really good point. The mental aspect is a really good point because who knows?

Only the person that's competing knows. You really never have any idea what's going on inside a person's head. I mean, for me, I decided to take a break after my Arlovsky fight, and that was somewhat physically based, but most of it was mental. I just didn't – I had no interest to go into any kind of training camp to put myself through all that again, to then to fight again. You know, it's just, for one, when you start off fighting and what those goals are to, as you get further in and further in and further in and, you know, getting it 20 years of being a professional fighter and being a top 10 heavyweight and and arguably and top five most of the time for shit 16 of them something like that it's a lot of high level competition yeah and uh it's just

and youngest ever ufc heavyweight champion that's right i was until that that son of a bitch john jones came and beat me out by a few months that talented bastard now you're the youngest ever yeah just heavyweight champion instead of the youngest ever ufc champion but um it's it got to a point where it's just like well you know my reasons for fighting are essentially still the same but oh i don't have the same motivation to go out there and be like oh i'm gonna conquer the whole world i'm fine fine. I can beat that guy. I could be that. I know I could be guys like it doesn't.

I don't I'm not trying to prove it to myself anymore, you know, but that fire that wants to fight still exists. I'm just like, well, you know what? I'm going to take some time to work on some of the other stuff that is going to be more of my life after this because fighting is going to end sooner than this stuff is how old are you now 39 now when you think about do you have like a number in your head like when i hit 42 or no no no i don't i don't have anything set like that i just figure that if i'm being honest with myself and self-aware that i'll know when that time has come when that that moment is is getting to that that edge where if you keep going it's gonna fucking it's gonna go downhill versus okay you've got right to that point call it fucking good move on and there's still athletic windows open to me with grappling

and maybe a few other in professional wrestling uh but uh fighting is going to be a much shorter window and the fact that i got 20 years out of it or however long that i take this to is going to be pretty phenomenal yeah it's pretty incredible are you thinking about doing some more grappling yeah yeah i mean i've been approached by a few things but uh either dollars wise just really hasn't made sense, or mainly that's just it. I feel like it's just one thing that people have to figure out is super popular, or super exciting, rather, and get it on television. Somebody watches your match with Dean Lister. You're the first guy to tap out Dean Lister in how many years?

Like 17 years or 15 years, something like that. Something crazy. And you caught him in a scarf hold? Oh yeah, head and arm do. Old school judo style. Yeah. It's fucking badass. Well, here's the thing, I had seen that the last time he'd been subbed was that. Really? Yeah. So I already knew

that and I'm like, well, I'm going to put this in my back pocket if I need it later on in the match. And after I've been riding him and grinding on him and beating on him, once he's huffing and puffing, I can get it. I know it's going to be real hard for him to stop this. And so sure enough, I look up and it's like, oh, shit, I don't have a lot of time left. Boom, hit it, go.

And it worked. Yeah. And then Heron Gracie was a big feather in your cap, too, because Heron is one of the most respected young Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt guys out there. He's super respected. And defensively, really good. He's very tough defensively. Galval couldn't tap him. All those guys, like Hiron, Halek, Henner,

they were all very successful when they were competitors. Yeah. Super high-level guys. Yeah, they were kicking butt. But, in fact, Henner tapped Jeff Munson back in the day. I think it was a triangle. So, uh, when here on was the only guy that how it could get to step up and wrestle me. That was, that was the option.

There was all these heavyweights and all these dudes. And I'm like, I found a bunch of guys that had recently competed and won belts and stuff or one, one tournament. I'm like, Hey, pick, what about that guy? And Alex, like, he won't, what about that guy? And Alex, like he won't do it. That guy won't do it. That guy won't do it.

The whole bunch of them would be like, well, they won't do it without the gi. And I'm like, okay, well that's, you know, that's not an option.

So why even bring it up? So you couldn't get some really high level Brazilian Jiu Jitsu world champion guy who wanted to get in there with you? There have been, but well, no, well, there are a few like cyborg wanted to do it,

you know, but then that's an interesting one. He got, he got he got interested he got injured yeah so then it was like well how do we fill that gap what kind of injury do you have do you know rib i think i i didn't really look into it too much for me beast it was just a matter of that match isn't happening right move on you know try to salvage this thing i would like to see that match though in the future i think that would be really interesting. It could happen. It could happen.

I trained for it. I felt real confident going into it. I really wanted it, too, because everybody was like, as soon as I beat Dean, well, the first thing was, oh, what an idiot. He's wearing shoes. Oh, that's the dumbest thing. He's going to get his leg tore off. Oh, he's so dumb.

And then I went, it's like, what a cheater. He wore shoes. It gave him such an advantage. He had so much grip. Oh, that's like, what a cheater. He wore shoes. It gave him such an advantage. He had so much grip. Oh, that's bullshit. Which is it? Oh, he was 270 and Dean was 185 pounds. Like, what are you talking about?

I was like 250 and Dean was like 230. The guy was massive. And people forget he's pretty thick dude. And I remember giving him a hug at the quote-unquote weigh-ins i mean we didn't weigh in and i'm like this dude is silverback status right now he's huge yeah he's a fucking massive guy he's strong and very talented too and so i'm like extremely technical right very and you know to to me i'm seeing all all the blue belts going nuts out there. And I'm like, well, he was a heavyweight, too. So I didn't just go out there and outsize him.

You know, I used my game on him. And, yeah, I rode him heavy, you know, which is a skill to develop. But, you know, you don't see Dean making excuses. I mean, we just went out there and gave it our best, and I was able to beat him that day. Well, Dean was one of the best leg lockers in the country. Yeah. I mean, really, he's like super knowledgeable when it comes to any aspect of jiu-jitsu,

but in particular, leg locks. And he spent a bunch of time on the East Coast at Henzo's place, and Eddie Bravo said that's sort of where Henzo's place became like this leg lock mecca. You think about like Gary Tonin and Eddie Cummins and John Donaher. Like, yeah, his, like,

what teachings that he lent in over there sort of spread. Sure. And now they've since, Donaher, who's a real wizard, since spread it into his own sort of ideas and philosophies on attacks. Well, that's the thing. You just never know what can come of any, even the smallest to largest influence. Yeah. Allowing, that seed can take place anywhere but someone may tend that garden and all of a sudden boom you know a big export a big expansion from that idea

can come from it and that's you know one of the great things well that's one of the things that people like about you is that you're you most of the time you're going old school i mean you're doing catch wrestling stuff i mean you're doing like the shit that Carl Gotch and all those dudes from those old school wrestling, catch wrestling books, like a lot of those submissions. You're proving those things to be 100% legit. Yes. And

you know, I understood. I understand completely the some of the incredulousness about looking at that and being like like that doesn't fucking work because you think well if it did it would be everywhere right but for one it's just there's just not enough people teaching it so that's really diminishes uh the ability to expand it although like myself and uh all the people from the japanese shoot wrestling side that that has

come from like sakuraba and Maeda and Fujiwara. Which is amazing. Explain that connection because it's really kind of fascinating. Who went over there? It's Carl Gotch. Carl Gotch was brought over there by Antonio Inoki to create the New Japan Pro Wrestling Dojo and teach all of his students, all of the wrestlers, how to be catch wrestlers and to give them a foundation in basically shooting,

which is real fighting, so then they could go out there and work these matches, but keep the intensity, the realism. It's like the difference between, and I know you're not the biggest fan of professional wrestling. How dare you? How dare you? I dare.

I dare. If I had a gauntlet, I would throw it. I'm sure there's a gauntlet in here somewhere. Look at this fucking place. We'll find it. Yeah. But, you know, I also understand some of the gripe with looking at, like, the way wrestling has been for quite a while now, it's like, oh, so it got outed, right? So everybody knows it's worked.

So people operate on this premise that it's fake, so whatever. Like, why bother make it real anymore? let's just fake it up all the way and then people would open up skills and it would be like if if a if all magicians were just like hey look all of our tricks they're not real they're not real magic here's how you do them all and now i'm going to open up schools and just teach everyone you know just pay me 500 bucks for three months and now you too can be a magician and it's just like well uh oh man that would ruin going to magic shows it would just make it so shitty uh but you know that's how a lot of these these guys get into wrestling now that would never be wrestlers like to be a wrestler back even in say the 70s early 80s you had to be a fucking tough guy like dusty roads you look at

him you're like that guy's not tough you're like no actually he was recruited by the fucking miami dolphins and he was like yeah i think i can make more money being a wrestler than i can being a football player back then you know or rick flair was like a all-american or college big-time college football player and he went and trained under ver Gagne and Billy Robinson at the at this barn out in Minnesota somewhere and they would have to run miles and lift weights and do squats and wrestle each other for real and it's just like all these dudes that you think it's like oh yeah woo and all like that these motherfuckers had to go through some real shit and they had to prove themselves to be legitimately tough enough to be even a professional wrestler to work matches and they used to hold do things like hold tryouts and people would come down they'd pay in their

money and these wrestlers would just run them into the ground and then all right whoever's left whoever you know could get through the endurance part of this okay now you're going to get in the ring with some dude and then they would just get the shit tortured out of them. Just totally ripped apart. And then like, all right, cool, bye. You didn't make it. Because that's just the way it was. When did it become worked, right?

Because it used to be at one point in time, it was like they would do like matches and carnivals. Maybe the 30s. Like Farmer Burns days. Right, exactly. So originally professional wrestling, catch as catch can was 100% real. Like thesemer Burns days. Right, exactly. So originally, professional wrestling, catch as catch can, was 100% real.

Like these guys, this is how people would travel the world. This is how Mitsuo Maeda, the judoka, jiu-jitsu guy, ended up in Brazil doing catch wrestling,

pro wrestling matches, and then ended up staying and teaching judo and jiu-jitsu and catch wrestling to the Gracies. The actual birth of Brazilian jiu-jitsu,

which is amazing because you could trace it. Yes. Started as catch. Started as judo. Started as judo and catch wrestling. Jamie, pull up Farmer Burns hanging himself. Oh, yeah, the hangman trick.

Yeah, that's nuts. His neck was so strong that he would do this trick where he would put a noose around his neck and drop and hang from his neck and support his, and he was probably about 170 pounds, something like that. Probably something like that, yeah. And he would hang from his neck and not die.

Yes. Which most of us... How do you even get to that point? I don't know. How do you test that theory? Do you ease into it? Do you think he was beaten off ever while he was doing that? I hope so.

What a wasted opportunity. Maybe David Carradine should have been... Look at this. The guy used to fucking hang himself. Go to the one where you see his full body. The left there. Yeah. Look at that.

I mean, the guy had a neck that was so fucking strong, he literally could hang himself. I mean, he had his hands free, so he could reach up and grab the rope, I guess. But, I mean, I wonder how long he would survive doing that. I don't know. It could make it hard to give a blowjob afterwards. Yeah, for sure. There's certain dudes that, like, you look at at them today and you don't think of them as being like-

A 20-inch neck on a 165-pound dude. That's amazing. I mean, then he whistles Yankee Doodle. Oh, Jesus Christ. He whistles Yankee Doodle. Oh, he can be dropped from six feet? What? What?

What? Dropped from six feet. So he probably wasn't even six feet tall so he's dropping it from his own height and Catching with his fucking neck and then he whistles yeah And then also there's a gay for pay pro bodybuilders as well your favorite bodybuilder is maybe a male prostitute Hey, gay for pay hey What are those little things that they put on CNN and stuff like that? Like, miracle weight loss cure.

And then you go, paid ad. Like, what is, you have these paid ads here. Oh, God, that's ridiculous. You wouldn't believe what she looks like today. And you're like, what the fuck is this?

Yeah, you're running that through CNN, through like an accredited news website. Yeah. Yeah, this is the kind of stuff that people did in the late 1900s

for fun because there wasn't anything like tv no internet so what do you do you end up hanging yourself from seeing if you could drop from six feet i wonder how many people tried to emulate that and it just didn't work out talk about darwinism oh there had to be a lot right yeah for sure there's got to be some dummies like i could do that snap yeah oh for sure god man i bet there was a lot that died because there wasn't a whole lot of entertainment back there it was either that or get dysentery there's a crazy story going around some youtube couple did some stunt where

the other girl shot the guy right yeah and killed him pedia oh the encyclopedia was thick enough to stop a bullet that was the stunt and And what kind of a round was it? I don't know how to do that. What? Really? A nine millimeter, even a low, not a hot load one. Hot load. Boo!

Not even a real, like a personal defense round or whatever. It will pierce phone books, no problem. Yeah, I don't know what the fuck they were thinking. Can you imagine just having trust in encyclopedias to stop a bullet? Did they even test that out? They put an encyclopedia on the ground and shoot it first? I bet this crazy bitch probably, she probably put some Kevlar in a book and said, Look, honey, even the littlest book will stop a bullet.

And then she gave him the book with no Kevlar and bam! Well, I don't really believe that, folks. This is just a joke. Don't sue me. Women and men man They can they figure out ways to be tricky all the time or stupid as fuck they figure dumb as fuck There's a lot of dumb as fuck out there. It's just a matter of whether or not you can survive it, dude I've been trolling the past day on Instagram putting up these about the bears. Yeah, so many people think I'm serious

Dude I wrote about forest rangers infiltrating bear groups. I read that. And people try to find their intent. Dude, people are so fucking stupid. It's like what we were talking about before the podcast started, about people that form cults and Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard and all that shit. It's this diminishing element of critical thinking. It's not just about the reduction of critical thinking in today's society it is the effort that it takes to be a critical thinker and for

i would classify under this under the this this concept i have that i've been working with called human entropy so entropy is the the in physics it's uh things returning simply put it's uh things going to their lowest state of energy. And human beings, human entropy will go to their lowest state of energy given an opportunity. And to the point where you see WALL-E, if you've seen that movie and all the big, you know, fat out, just gnarly people just floating around on hover beds, being fed and taken care of and having zero strife in their life, that we will do that if given the opportunity. And so not having to think critically, finding a group identity of some sort, even as crazy as a cult,

which I would argue that there's a lot of ideologies around nowadays that are just as cult-like as Scientology or Heaven's Gate, stuff like that. Dude, CrossFit helps a lot of people. I think you're so out of line. But to belong in one of these groups, to be a part of that identity means that you no longer have to take as much responsibility for your own actions because this group has decided your value system, how you're going to operate your ethics. Also, I mean, there's some philosophical arguments that part of that also ultimately stems from,

I think it's from Ernest Becker. It stems from fear of death and having to mitigate the anxiety and nihilism that could come with confronting and accepting the fact that you're going to die and everything that you did is going to die with you, essentially. Like your lack of existence is coming around the corner. Not if you put on the purple Nikes and cut your balls off and wait for the comet. That's right. You drink the Kool-Aid. Did you hear how the guy he saw everybody dying horribly and he's like, fuck, I'm not gonna

drink that. Please, you know, do something else instead. Shoot me. I don't want to take the drink. I'm sure. Didn't they kill like 900 people or something like that in Jonestown? Something insane along those lines? It's just, it's very interesting watching people

just give in to the influence of the hive. Of course. Whatever hive that is. Yes. Whether it's a religious hive or, I'm fascinated. Well, it operates on the same principles, you know, whether it be religion. And you can tell people, of course, to me, religion is kind of one of the ultimate ones because everything we do is measured against a wager. You know, if we talk from from games.

So what's at stake increases the importance or the of the game itself. So fighting increases that that threshold so much higher because the more greater potential for death or hurt, pain, whatever. Right. You're fighting somebody. And as you go down the lines, but you know, poker is, is popular because the raised stakes, the money as at play and the reward that could come with it and the potential that you could lose from it. So everything has this, this value, this, this measure against what you're, what you're potentially giving up and what's it, what's at so with religion what's it hazard your eternal soul something that is so high value that you can't oh fuck i can't risk that so fuck i i guess i better you know, I mean, that's why it's so powerful. But also it is it is a

panacea for death. Because like Nietzsche will talk about the concept of true world values. This is not the true world. This other thing is the true world. So all this suffering and strife and difficulty and any like bullshit that happens to me and all of this, in the end, isn't going to matter because eventually I'm going to go to this true world and this is the real world and this is my payoff for all of the shit I had to go through down here. And so for a lot of people,

the concept of having meaning for their difficulty, for their struggle is absolutely important because otherwise, why am I doing this? You know, to take your own existence, your own being in the world and take it onto yourself and have all your own accountability and look at it as I'm here living the best life I can because I need to live the best life I can because it's the only life I will ever live. Yeah. That is a lot of weight. And, you know, um, the anxiety of people dealing with that, trying to really take that on face on with death and their, their, their lack of permanence in this world. Uh, that's the, the argument is that was where nihilism can come from. And then with nihilism, it's like, well, nothing matters.

So if nothing matters, then you're not able to operate anymore. You're just like, what's the point? Yeah. The moment matters, though. Of course it does. All of it. Everything matters. Yeah.

Well, see, it's up to you to assign your values as to what you're doing anyways and why you're doing it. But again, that involves taking responsibility for those values and carrying those, that burden of what that may be on your own shoulders. And I think that's one of the, one of the reasons why learning some kind of a discipline at an early age is probably really important for people. I think so. I mean, I think for me, a lot of it came from being ostracized as a kid and being someone that was not of hive mentality and out of herd mentality and how'd you

get ostracized for what because of what just uh for for one it was being bigger and for all the things that i was interested in all the dorky stuff or weird stuff or you still play dungeons and dragons i would if i had the time i would play dungeons and dragons i would play warhammer 40k i would i still play magic the gathering from time to time. Do you? Oh, yeah. I'm as nerdy as they get. You cast spells? Fuck, yeah.

Are you kidding me? I tap that man, motherfucker. I love it. Yeah. But, you know, for being into that kind of stuff, but also just for being different. And some of it was like Big Brother syndrome stuff. So it's like, oh, well, you big brother syndrome stuff so it's like oh well

you fuck with big brother because it's fun and eventually he gets mad he finds you and he beats you up and you cry but you do it again the next day anyways so for me it's like oh here's this big kid and he's gonna get upset if you start fucking with him uh and it's funny ha ha ha ha until i get a hold of you and then it's like oh you just beat me up that's fucked up and it's like well i didn't i didn't want to beat anybody up until you started fucking ridiculing me in the first place. But when you're a little child, you don't understand regulation of emotions as well. You also don't understand the social parameters in which all this stuff is functioning anyways. You just don't have that kind of insight.

And so, you know, it'd be like nowadays someone could walk in here and be like, fuck you, you suck. And I would look at him and I would laugh about it. Does that ever happen to you? Because we were talking about this yesterday. I was saying that I saw it happen to Chuck Liddell. I have saw people try to pick fights with Chuck Liddell and it's hilarious. It's like, are you fucking suicidal?

Does that ever happen with you? No, no, no, no. I have never had anyone really try to pick a fight with me. I had a guy at a concert once, like get all butthurt about me not letting him pass in between me and this girl that a fight with me. I had a guy at a concert once, like get all, get all butthurt about me not letting him pass in between me and this girl that was standing with me because people kept trying to cut through

to get, it was at Anthrax and he wanted to get, and I'm just like, fuck this. Why do people keep trying to walk between us? Like Jesus, just go around.

So eventually I'm like, nah, I'm not letting anybody by. So I got my elbows out and people would bump into it and then go around. Well, this guy,

he just kept going, kept tapping. It's just like it's just like man fuck you dude i'm standing here with a girl go away he was trying to get between you and your girl and so eventually he was trying to get like a dick rub like maybe i mean if he'd asked nicely maybe he would have got one i don't know that's a bold ask but uh you know what though fortune favors the bold and i'm a kind human being maybe he didn't want meter of his dick but that's what he would have got he would have got that too so so give and you take sir so uh the guy comes around he finally goes around us and then he's just he looks at me he's like hey man i was trying to get through and i go look i'm standing here with with this girl like you know yeah go somewhere just go around and he's getting all he's getting pissed about it

because i'm dismissing him you know and so eventually i was like just you know let's go let's walk away now that gets his fucking hackles up and he's all mad he's he's looking at me he's like you this and that i just started laughing at him i go oh you want to you want to scrap because you can't get through here is that is that it is this what you want to do and he's just like well well and i go okay okay we'll just move on oh fucking chest up even bigger and it's just like he looks like he's gonna walk away whatever i'm saying all right you know okay do your own thing he's like he's just getting even more worked up and finally he points his finger out and i'm laughing at him and the girl who uh who was like uh did jujitsu and was a fighter she reaches out

and grabs a hold this guy's wrist and pulls his hand out she's like don't you don't want to do that and then he looks at her and he looks at me and i'm just smiling and he pulls his hand back and i go i know what must have gone through his head is just like this girl's grip is serious and she's telling me don't fucking do it it's probably a good idea not to fucking do it probably exactly but other times there have been like, you know, I'm not impervious to getting in a mood. And so sometimes I've been out and about and someone's being a dickhead and I see it and it's like, okay, this guy, he's clearly trying to egg something on somehow. And so maybe I, you know, add a little something to that scene. If he'll, if he'll, if he'll bite and just won't happen, you know, or I've had some people go, oh yeah, add a little something to that, seeing if he'll bite and just won't happen. You know?

Or I've had some people go, oh, yeah, of course no one's going to fight you. They know who you are. I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? I'm some sort of D-list celebrity. Nobody knows who the fuck I am. You can get away with a lot, I think. The thing is, if a guy knew how to fight, he would know who you are. If a guy was a fan of fighting, he would know who you are.

And those guys would be way less likely to pick a fight in the first place. Well, there was one dude who was at this bar in Fullerton and he's being just belligerent. He's being an asshole in this place. And my buddy Hammer, he was the door guy at the time.

And they're like, come on, this guy's fucking getting all riled up. And I'm standing there with Hammer and just looking at this dude. And eventually the other door guy comes over and he's like, hey, you fucking dumbass.

You're wearing the fucking T-shirt of that guy right there. So maybe you might want to shut the fuck up. And so this guy's wearing one of my Affliction shirts. And the guy looks at the shirt and he looks at me. And he's like, oh, shit. That's so stupid. Getting your ass kicked because you picked a fight with a guy whose shirt you have on like you you're wearing a josh barnett shirt and you don't know who josh barnett is well and

some a lot of this shit comes from people putting themselves into situations where they have up the ante to where where for them not to follow through is going to bring about like a huge internal conflict with them. You know, they're going to know that they raised the stakes and then they had to back down, which I think is really hard for just about anybody to deal with. To get yourself to a point where you're like, yeah, you know, I'm in the right. And then to dial that back. I mean, people don't even want to really apologize for anything, let alone have to admit that they took something too far.

It got to a point where they weren't willing to go any further and they realized they fucked up and then to fucking tuck tail and back down. And there's a lot prove to somebody else that, that they are capable or that look at, Hey, everybody look at how, how bad ass I am. So, you know, when it, for me, I just, I don't start fights, you know, I mean, barring that, maybe that occasional moment where someone I thought was being an asshole or I thought they were being a shitty person. The thought they were being a shitty person. The reason they were being a shitty person is because they thought that no one would call them on it. You know, and for me to call them on it is more about there doesn't need to be any conflict here tonight,

but you want to create it because you're an insecure little prick. So I'll be your huckleberry. All right. Now that you see that somebody was willing, now how much is it worth to you? And of course, it's almost, it's never worth it to them. And even people that have, you know, been all fucking fired up and, you know,

of course they're operating off of anger and emotion and of upping something to a point where they don't feel that they can back down. Because if you give someone an out, especially in these kinds of things, 90% of the time they take it. But it's that always that last word thing that everybody wants yeah that is almost as valuable as winning the

fight to a lot of dickheads but you know when you sometimes you turn to somebody you go you don't know anybody that knows anybody that knows anybody that knows anybody that can kick my ass so i don't know what you're going to do right now or who you're going to call but it ain't going to fucking work or it's just you know turn to somebody like how many friends you got with you? That ain't enough. You know, go get more. Cause I don't know which one of you guys want to get involved, but the first one that I can get my hands onto, I'm a fucking cripple you. I'm a fuck you up. I'm a fuck you up. I don't know if you guys can take me, but I want to know how many of you I'm going to take with me first. I don't know if you guys can take me, but I want to know how many of you I'm going to take with me first.

Or my favorite is people nowadays don't really. So everything is a reduction to violence, essentially. Everything? Everything is a reduction to violence. At the base level, avoid things getting to violence. But even your simplest law is essentially rooted in the element of violence. So, OK, you you will use some some some law, right? Like a ticket of some sort.

And it's like, well, I'm going to fine you for this thing. I'm not going to pay it. Okay, well, then we're going to fine you some more. I'm not going to pay that. We're going to do this. I'm not going to do that. Well, okay, then if you're not going to pay the thing, you're not going to do this,

and you're not going to let, you're not going to, oh, well, then what we're going to do is we're going to arrest you. No, you're not. At some point, it reduces down to violence violence so we're using violence all the time to or at least the con the for a lot of things for pretty much everything you know in terms of social controls eventually if someone doesn't want to adhere to those controls in some way violence is the final solution it's what It's what it boils down to. It is the basis for all of our police and military. And even honestly, it still exists within

all of us on a social level. It's just that we have managed to take that concept and put it onto something else, the law, right law right police something like that but the reality is is that if some guy just at some point says you know i don't really give a fuck and you were an asshole and i'm just gonna wreck you okay you can sue them you can do this you can call the cops on them you can whatever but violence is going to happen whether you want it to or not and whether this person was in the right, because that's another thing is like violence in and of itself, even if you're the winner, like I don't remember what the philosopher was said,

you know, winning the duel doesn't mean that you were correct. It just means that you won, you know, that's a good point. So duels. Yeah. But,

uh, uh, so all these things are, are, you know, customs norms. A lot of this stuff is to avoid anything breaking down to violence because, you know, you bump into someone, you spill their drink and they turn to you and go, hey, man, well, I was fucked up. And you turn to me, you go, you know what? It was. I'm sorry. Or you could turn to me like, you know what? Fuck you. Fuck me. You spilled my drink.

Fuck you. Fuck me. You spilled my drink. I'm taking offense to this. I now don't have my drink. Who's going to make this right? I don't really give a shit. Huh.

Everything starts to escalate. And as soon as one person takes a stand and if that other person rises to that next level too and they rise it again, eventually you get to a certain point. It's like, okay, where are we going with this where is the solution where does any of this lie and it's you've you've stripped down all other options until you got to a point where all you got allowed yourselves was violence or to completely pull yourself entirely out of that situation which a lot of people aren't necessarily if it really really really got to that point they're not willing to do because a lot of people aren't necessarily, if it really, really, really got to that point, they're not willing to do because now there's too much emotional maturity to realize that they've made a mistake or to just not engage and not want to be a part of it.

Yeah. But then there's that psychological thing of wanting to win whatever weird battle of words. Right. Well, and there's, there's other complex things. Like if it was, uh, males, you know, there's social's other complex things like if it was uh males you know there's social hierarchy stuff um if it was females or social hierarchy stuff between that if it's male and female it could be you know well there's always this side of if you're really super concerned about

what other people think or how you're going to be perceived by others in a group setting you know that could also play into a factor which which happens, you know, out and about on the town or whatever. Your buddies always see you in this situation or other people, everyone. Okay. You got their attention. Now, what are you going to do? And so if they see you completely retreat, everyone's like, uh-huh. All right.

Well, that guy really wasn't what he said he was like his. Right, right, right. Yeah. You're not down, man. Did you ever see that thing where Sean Connery is talking to Barbara Walters and she asks him about hitting chicks? Yeah, I've seen it. And he's like, sometimes you give them the last word, but that's not enough.

They have to say more, and you've got to give them a little smack. A little smack. Yeah, that's... He just said it. And Barbara's just like, uh... She didn't know what the fuck to do. A little smack. Yeah. It's. Just said it. That's crazy. And Barbara was just like. She didn't know what the fuck to do. What?

She thought she had him. Yeah. She thought it was over. He dug his heels in. He's impervious, I guess. You know? But. He probably had no cum in his body.

Because he probably fucked 15 different women that day. Right. And he was just like. Kind of nonsense conversation are we having here? Do I need to smack you, Barbara? I'm fucking Sean Connery. Yeah, look at the smile on his face.

James Bond, look at my mustache. I'm bald. I don't care. I'm a manch man. Let's play. Can we play it without getting pulled off YouTube? I remember you said

you don't do it with a clenched fist. It's better to do it with an open hand. Yeah. Remember that? Yeah. Remember that? I didn't love that. I haven't changed my opinion. No.

Do you think it's good to slap a woman? No, I don't think it's good. You don't think it's bad, though? I don't think it's that bad. I think that it depends entirely on the circumstances and if it merits it. What would merit it? Well, if you have tried everything else, and women are pretty good at this, they can't leave it alone. They want to have the last word and you give them the last word, but they're not happy with the last word.

They want to say it again and get into a really provocative situation then i think it's absolutely right wow oh boy oh that's so people get sean connery being rude and aggressive play that up next what is what is he being rude and aggressive. Play that up next. What is he getting rude and aggressive about? There are reports that you punched the director. Was it a right hooker or a left hooker? Do you work for the tabloids or the News of the World? I just said there are reports.

National Enquirer? Are you wearing a jockstrap or what? I'm not. Not tonight, sir. Okay. That's why you're smiling. I am indeed. Maybe it's too tight.

The director isn't here tonight. Any particular reason behind that? I mean, would you work with that man? He probably knew you were going to be here. Would you make another film with the director again if you had the chance? Would you do another interview with me? Of course I would. Yeah, but I wouldn't do a film with him.

Thank you. All right. Thank you very much. Wow. Hello, I'm Sean Connery. How are you? It would be funny if that was Barbara White Walters right next to him. She's ready to take some dick.

That honestly didn't seem that rude or aggressive. No. He just didn't like the question, and he fucked with him about it. Yeah, well, clickbait. But in any case, I personally do not put hands on women. I'm not into that. Have you ever had a chick try to hit you, though? Oh, fuck, yeah.

Are you kidding me? No, I've been chin-checked while driving once. I was like into that. I also feel like- Have you ever had a chick try to hit you, though? Oh, fuck, yeah. Are you kidding me? No, I've been chin-checked while driving once. I was like, snack. Oh, that was cool. We hit each other now? Is that what it is? That's the girl who wants to get fucked hard. You're not fucking her hard enough, Josh.

Apparently not. Shit. You need to put your boots on. Those wrestling shoes you wore when you tapped out Dean, you need to put those on. I need to lace up, motherfucker. Put some Tack'Em on my arms, you know, make sure to get a good grip. You might want to throw the mattress on the ground. Right.

You know, so you can really, like, dig in, like, a side control sort of thing. Yeah, really. We can really bottom that thing out. Yeah, man. Like, you push up against a wall, and your feet just on hardwood floor. That's what I'm thinking right you're just planking and just you know driving actually office carpeting imagine if you had your bedroom like

the stuff is stain resistant yeah it's got that grip on it grippy girls are like what the fuck is this like what why is your carpet shut the fuck up this is gonna get real real in a second but you're gonna love me for it uh no i've been i've been hit uh i uh i'm not gonna i'm not like oh you've been in abusive relationships not like that i mean it's just people it's frustrations and people not being able to manage those i remember one uh this gal uh she trained she fought and at one point and she used to do all kinds of shit right go you know what that is the most fucked up shit you're're really abusing the fact, you know, your gender and that you know that you're a woman, so I'm not going to do anything. But you're going to do shit to me that if you were a man, I would just knock all your teeth out.

Like you've crossed so many lines and been so disrespectful and done things that are, you know, an invasion of personal space and respect. It's just like, man, that's just too much. You went way too far. Physical violence, like punching you while you're driving? Yeah, yeah. What if you went out? That'd have been hilarious. Because it's a girl who knows how to fight, right? Well, this one wasn't. The one that punched me while I was driving didn't know how to fight.

But, yeah. Well, you know, it's like they say, too. What the drunk guy, he passes out, he's always the one that doesn't get hurt. So I would have been like, and then the car was cheap anyway, so I wouldn't have cared. And she probably would have got tossed through the window. But I just remember her saying to me this one time, the one that did train, she's like, you know what? You know what fucking kills me? I could just hit you as hard as I wanted to.

I could do whatever. And it wouldn't fucking matter because, you know, because you as hard as I wanted to. I could do whatever. And it wouldn't fucking matter. Because, you know, because you're you and I bought. You're just so much bigger and stronger. And I'm just like, Jesus, why was that my fucking fault? Right. You know, we're having, we have an argument about something and you escalate it. And then you're mad at me because you couldn't beat me up at the end of it.

You got so mad that you can't kick my ass. And now that makes you madder Let me play armchair psychologist because I'm good at this. What I would think is that a gal like that First of all, she probably enjoys having a certain amount of physical power over people and when shit escalates She wants that violence to be real She wants it to be a real threat coming from her which is why she probably started fighting in the first place Now what she's fighting when she's arguing with you, all of a sudden, she's in this fucked up situation where what she's worked for her whole life is to become this scary

girl. A girl who can fuck people up. A girl who's literally a threat physically. She could probably knock a lot of dudes out, right? But she's confronted with a giant former UFC heavyweight champion, and she's like, God damn it. It doesn't work. Well, I do think that that psychology can absolutely hold true. For this one particular girl, for her, I think it was a matter of not being able to,

having this frustration about not being able to get the outcome that they wanted. And having what they would feel is no recourse to get me to come to their terms in their way. But usually she uses physical violence as a threat. No, no, this girl never used physical violence. But she was worried about that then. You know what? Why did she bring it up? It's insecurity. It's insecurity.

And it was just like, how is that even why, why for one, you know, this, this, this girl, uh, I was with her for a long time. This, you know, I haven't, this one was a long time ago. My most recent one, on the other hand, that one I've actually seen use violence before. Um, and it's just like, how to me, it's just like, even with, with arguing, we would get into these arguments and someone would make, you know, statement a, and I'd say, okay, well, uh, I don't think statement a holds true because of these reasons. And then we'd start going. And then all of a sudden statement a is get straw manned into something else.

And then, no, no, no, you can't leave statement a, because you're basing your arguments on that. We're not talking about statement b that's that's a whole different scenario altogether this argument isn't is going nowhere now now it's getting circular and you keep taking me away from the original argument to begin with they start hitting you with six years ago you said this to me it wouldn't be stuff like that it would be would be something on, I don't know, she turned into a gigantic Marxist SJW. Really? Yeah. While you were dating her?

Yes. She turned SJW social justice warrior, ladies and gentlemen, if you're not online a lot. It would just be like, well, that, okay, hold on. That doesn't make sense. Your logic here, I don't think, falls being correct. She turned into this. She didn't start out doing this? I think it existed.

She went to Berkeley. But nonetheless, it wasn't something that I ever saw, especially to begin with. It didn't seem like that was what I was in store for. Until one day, I look over and I'm like, huh, Das Kapital. Well, yeah, I think reading Marx is interesting and I think it's worthwhile to understand some of his, his arguments. And I think he's got some interesting critiques of capitalism, especially back in its day with, with this industrialism, uh, industrial, uh, society at that time, but he doesn't understand people at all. His solutions are fucking hackneyed.

And, you know, he's coming from a very interesting position because he doesn't even, he as a person doesn't even stick to his own, his own shit, you know? But in any ways, so we're having these arguments and then it would turn to a pejorative and I'm like, well, okay, why are you attacking me? I'm not attacking you. I'm not even being angry about your statement. I just you made statement A. So I don't believe in it.

I don't I don't think that that's correct. So we're having a discussion. But now it became a personal attack. And once it even gets to that, let alone someone even back in the day talking about, oh, it really upsets me that no matter how angry, no matter whatever, if I hit you or did this, it wouldn't matter because you're you. It's like, well, both of these statements come from the same, same, both of those scenarios come from the same place. It's like, well, now you're trying, you're attacking me, the individual, because if you're going to do that, you aren't thinking about me as the person that, no, no, no, I got your back through heaven and hell. I will kick the gates of hell down and kill everyone there if I got to. They're really dead. They want to devalue me, the person, because they feel attacked in some way. They feel like they're so attached to their statement, to whatever that may be, which

has some attachment to maybe what they feel is their existence, that to change that is dangerous. To call it outright wrong would be an even bigger problem. I mean, you know, it's just like this stuff would start showing up at the house. And so I'm like, all right, I'm going to start doing research on Marx and Engels and all this different stuff. And then as I would go further and further and further down the rabbit hole, I come back and I go, oh, OK. So this argument stems from this and this and this and this and this. And they're like, no, it doesn't.

Like, OK, why do you think people operate? Like, what do you think their whole reasoning is? You know, we get into these arguments about capitalism. Like capitalism is a neutral system. Let me ask you this. What is it about social justice warriors or left-wing people where Marxism is so attractive to them? Well, for one, it's this idea of equity, like this sameness. Like, everybody, nobody is being left behind and no one is becoming greater than anybody else. Right.

It's also the idea, I like to think of it, I think a lot of these young people look at it as mom's house, mom and dad's house. So when you're at mom and dad's house, someone does your laundry, someone cooks your food. You always just show up, you got a place to live. The TV turns on and there's your cable. The government should become mom and dad once you leave the house. Exactly. So they want mom and dad's house to exist forever. So it's just like they can run off and do whatever it is they want to do. There's plenty of money for food.

There's plenty of money for shelter. We just need to spend it. Right. Redistribution of wealth. Right. Exactly. Because if you exceed that system more than they deem that you should have, then you should give it to somebody else.

And it's like, well, how do you think I got this? I wonder how many, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Go ahead. Well, it's just like, how do you think I got this? People can say, well, it was you got it through you and inherited it. Okay. That does happen. I could also have got it through hard work and dedication and some, some guile and some

smarts and made it happen for myself. Does that somehow mean that I had to do it at the expense of someone else? Yeah. That's a shitty argument, right? That's the, but that's the argument that they keep bringing up. But if you're successful,

you did it on the back. It's all grift. It's all grift. Yeah. What do you think? Why would, this is what I wanted to ask. Well,

that's the other thing. The back of someone else is an interesting thing too. It's like, if someone agrees to do a job, if their skillset is limited in such a way that they are capable of doing this job at this moment. Now, of course, if you're asking me, they have a potential to do more than that, as long as they're willing to invest back in themselves and find another skill or expand that skill. There's always possibility for growth

within a human being, within their lot in life, whatever that is. And that could be transferred into work, could be transferred into personal goals. I mean, it's all about how you value things also. So this person gets into this job working, making widgets for this guy who invented this widget. This guy invented the widget. The argument that, okay, the worker deserves just as much as the guy who invented this widget. This guy invented the widget. The argument that, okay, the worker deserves just as much as the guy that invented it. It's like, well, hold on. Without the guy that invented the widget, you have no job. All of these people that are working underneath them would have nothing. They would have zero. There would be no widget to build.

And the guy that made the widget also has the most responsibility because he had to come up with the money to produce the widget, to be able to hire the people to make the widget, to then market the widget, to do all these things to the widget, to get it out there, to make it successful enough to then support more people. And that doesn't necessarily mean it's on the back of that other person. Because you could also say, well, is everything on the back of the guy that made the widget? could also say well is everything on the back of the guy that made the widget i mean do you just his idea is not worth it is not can't be belong to him because he created it we should take it for us even though we never we did not come up with it we never created it we didn't even have the facilities to make it didn't create it and didn't invent it are the ones who want to define how much this guy should get for inventing it versus how much they sure and i would get into

arguments uh with my ex about she's's like, oh, I think all businesses should be co-ops. And my thing, you're like- What does that mean? Well, like cooperative where everybody is getting an equal share into the business itself. All businesses. Yeah. That's hilarious.

It is hilarious. Also because I would say all businesses can be co-ops. There is no one stopping a business from being a co-op. You know what stops businesses from being a co-op is someone doesn't want it to be a co-op. Or someone decides, well, that a co-op is someone doesn't want it to be a co-op. Or someone decides, well, that doesn't I can't do it that way. So it won't make as much sense for me

to create a co-op situation as it would to not. A co-op sounds nice. An enforced co-op does not sound nice. Well, of course not. A co-op sounds nice if like say if you and I live on a block and we say, hey, let's we got this fucking patch of land. Let's start a garden. start a little small farm. Correct.

And we'll just have a little co-op here. Right. All right, cool. Great. Yeah. Beautiful. But that's everybody doing it by choice. Voluntary.

And says, Josh Barnett, is this the Josh Barnett farm? Yeah. Well, you're going to have to turn this into a co-op. And you're like, well, the fuck I am. Well, we're going to put you in jail. Exactly. And then it comes back down to violence. Here's the question.

This is what I kept meaning to ask before I forget. And then it comes back down to violence. Here's the question. This is what I kept meaning to ask before I forget. Do you think that the, what do you think the numbers are of the people that are involved in these ideas that have never competed in anything? Now, that's, my ex-girlfriend is a professional fighter and she fights in Bellator. However, the idea of the meritocracy of being a fighter, it seems it's not I don't think it's lost on her. I just think that she she doesn't like the way it's worked out for her.

And that makes her upset. Whereas for me, I found success as being a fighter. And sometimes it would appear that she would be she would be upset at me for what I was able to do and somehow think that maybe I was less deserving or somehow I'm an, it's an exception that who knows what, but the reality is, is like, I can sit back and go, Oh, Mark Hunt just made $800,000. Her thought might've, might be more, let's say if we're just, I'm making this up. I'm not saying that she said this, you know, it's like, well, why does he deserve $800,000? Why I make a $4,000 or $5,000 or whatever.

I've seen people say that. Right. It's just like, okay, well I could think of plenty of reasons. They go, he draws more tickets. He's got a better record or he's, he's one, he's a K one champ or whatever. You know, at the end of the day, he's fighting in New Zealand. Right. And if he's selling more right and if he's selling more tickets than you are then he gives it he deserves

a greater percentage of that money now now you come to me and i can be like well i beat mark hunt right but what's her argument for that when you say that uh her argument for that would be that you know this other person isn't any more deserving than me. So everybody should get paid the same. So if Jon Jones fights Daniel Cormier, huge fight, everybody on the undercard gets a fair share. Either that or just like, well, I deserve more than this. And my argument would always be, when she was upset about what she may be getting paid here or there,

and some of this I'd go, well, look, you know, for this, for what we're trying to accomplish and for what is available in these markets, that's not a bad payday. Well, that sucks. No, I agree with you. You should make more money, but we can't. It's not available. So we have to deal with what we have. For me, and then I would look at something like Mark Hunt and be like, well, I beat Mark Hunt, but so what? I'm more glad that Mark Hunt was able to create an opportunity to make $800,000. So therefore, if he can make $800,000,

now the potential for me to do that exists as well. And it's just similar to like the old Gina Carano thing where everyone got on a train about wanting to beat Gina Carano, fuck Gina Carano, she's not even that good, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all this hate at Gina Carano. When the reality is like, okay,

well, even if you beat Gina Carano, you're not gonna get what Gina Carano gets. You're not to get people aren't going to like you just as much or more it's really not about any of that the only thing you can control is yourself at the end of the day you can only control yourself you can you only you can can work to try and increase or you're in determine your value in terms of what you're trying to sell but isn't part of selling today, at least, talking shit? Some of it. It seems to be like,

because of Connor, his proficiency at it, and his massive financial success because of it. But he wins too. He wins all the time. He won belts. He made very bold statements

and then went out and won. Another person could then go and talk shit. Maybe they win and people still don't care as much. You can't force people to care, and what makes them care is a metric that you just can't define. There's one way of doing it is to make them all hate you.

But when you lose, what's going to happen is you're going to drop off often. Everything that you gained will be lost. But as they hate you you as you continue to win they're going to be more incited to watch you fight they're going to be more interested to watch you fight or you could be a guy like randy couture everybody loves and even when he loses everybody loves in the same sure and and you know how that combination comes about is it's magic well i think with randy it's sincerity but i think think, look at Kevin Lee and Michael Chiesa from this past weekend. Perfect example of a few of these guys put together talking shit to each other at a press conference.

They get in a scuffle at a press conference, and all of a sudden, everybody cares about the result of this fight. And then the fight has a controversial ending. And now it's even more crazy. And now there's a lot of eyes on Kevin Lee and Michael Chiesa that Three four months ago just I've been saying guys are super talented guys have some really good wins and I think Kevin Lee's got some real fucking potential But people weren't really talking about in the way they are now so a lot of other fighters are gonna look at that and go Yeah, that's what I do. I gotta talk shit on Gina Carano or I got to talk shit on well

it's a lot of that is with the Gina Carano thing that was insecurity and that was also she was a superstar and the only one and people wanted they thought that they could have what she had by taking it from her and it's like well that's not actually how it works you can beat her

and that will definitely do something for you and by fighting her it's gonna elevate your status. But not the same status. No. Like, look at Holly Holm. You're your own person. When she knocks out Ronda.

Sure. I mean, she devastated Ronda, right? She was the first one. Ronda's undefeated, looks like a tank, is coming at her, and Holly winds up head kicking her and knocking her out. I mean, Holly is still a really highly respected professional fighter, but, I mean, it's not the same.

It doesn't have the same... Well, it also did something for her accolades coming in, so she's this heavily touted boxing champion. Yeah. That boxing championship looks more interesting now after she goes and she wins the MMA belt, too. Let me ask you this. Why don't they set up Cyborg versus her?

Isn't that the fight? Cyborg versus Holly Holm? I think it would be a good fight. Because Holly Holm fought Duran Deme. I don't know. A lot ofborg versus Holly Holm? I think it would be a good fight. I don't know. A lot of people thought Holly Holm should have won that fight. It was a very close fight and Duran to me definitely hit her twice after the bell.

Once really significant and should have been a penalization. So why the fuck isn't Holly fighting? I know she just fought Betch Kohea but as soon as Megan Anderson dropped off if Holly could take it I mean she didn't Betch Kohea, but as soon as Megan Anderson dropped off, if Holly could take it, I mean, she didn't have, as long as she's not injured, maybe she is. Who knows? She might be.

Managers. Yeah, who knows? Bookers. Who knows? Who knows what? But that's the fight. That's an interesting fight. Holly versus Cyborg is the fucking fight.

It would be a great fight. Really interesting. I think people would be interested to watch it, but it's not the fight that's being made. Instead, we have Tanya Enverger stepping up and and fighting uh cyborg instead yeah and short notice you know but tanya's a gamer she's very tough yeah she will fight anybody well that's a highlight of the fight because of that because she's so tough that's what makes it exciting but you know cyborg's a giant person she is she's massive she's super explosive which to me, explosiveness in women's MMA is a massive difference between success and not. If you're super explosive, that usually makes a big difference in terms of your success rate.

Did you see Cyborg sparring with Clarissa Shields? Two-time Olympic gold medalist in boxing and hanging in there, man. She's getting outboxed for sure, but not by much. She landed some good shots. She's still game and moving forward and fighting and throwing stuff back. Yeah. And dangerous against a super high level boxer.

A girl that's even arguably bigger than her too. Yeah. And lightning fast. Yeah. But watching Shields like set things up and use that jab, like, dude, I just want someone to get hurt to come learn some fucking sprawls. Specialization, you know?

That's the thing about boxing in the Conor and Mayweather fight is it's the specialization of a boxer versus the MMA person. I would say the MMA fighter is the superior fighter, right? When you start, to me, the most open and the most even playing field is the one that has the least rules. But by funneling that down to those specific skill sets with boxing, you create a specialized athlete. While there are skills within boxing that will transfer to MMA, even just in terms of boxing, the timing and the footwork that you might use in boxing isn't necessarily what you would use in MMA and vice versa. Sure, stance, distance. Right, but so I see that it would be great if Conor goes out there and wins.

It would make MMA look that much bigger. And he's got the power, and he's a great athlete, and he's got good timing and accuracy. I just don't see him being able to get flush on Mayweather the way that's going to be needed. It seems highly unlikely unless you old-school Bernard Hopkins him. You know, remember Bernard used to fight, he used to clinch guys, and just seriously rough him up and clinch, and outside he was just straight defensive. But do you really think that boxing referees are going to let that happen?

No, I don't. And there's going to be even more eyeballs on Conor to diminish that aspect. Because they're going to be expecting him to do stuff like that anyways. I'm sure there's already, I've heard, that there are elements in the contract about kicks and things like that. They have to put that in there. They would have to put that in there. If you just decide to haul off and kick him, then that's it. You lose all your money.

Yeah, that in there. If you just decided to haul off and kick him, then that's it. You lose all your money. Yeah, that makes sense. But I feel like if you looked at Conor and his skill set, what he's capable of doing overall, I could see how he would think, man, it's just striking. I feel like I could probably get close enough. I can get off on anybody. Sure. But that level that Floyd Mayweather's at, like to have zero professional boxing fights

and then to spar with him. And you know, also from Conor's perspective, he's thinking, this is a chance to be a hero. This is another opportunity to be a hero. I have hardly anything to lose, if at all, and all to gain. I have the potential of winning. I also have a big payday, win or lose.

So everything works out towards a win-win situation for him. You know what would have been great? If Conor could get this stipulation, we'll only box, but we wear MMA gloves. Very different. Floyd has had issues with his hands in the past, which is why he almost exclusively wears winning gloves in the ring. So that would never happen.

Which are very thick, fat gloves. And I think they're fighting with 10-ounce gloves, too. It's a big glove. 10s, not 8s? No, I don't think so. I think the greed upon weight was 10. See if that's the case. Is that the case? Yeah. Ah, wow, I'm surprised. Interesting. I would have thought 8s. Yeah, you want something a little bigger. Because they're like, what, 140-some pounds?

I think they're going to fight 55. And I think, I thought 60 was the cutoff, but I might be wrong. 168 or 170. It might be 54. Yeah. Where they go to 10. Huh. But either way, much bigger than four, which is what he's accustomed to.

Yeah. And I feel like if, but, look, man, it's still. You know, I had a conversation with a buddy of mine who's a really good jujitsu black belt and he was going to fight in MMA. And he had very little sparring in terms of like MMA sparring or very little kickboxing sparring, almost no striking. And I said, you know how you can do things to people on the ground where you get some guy who doesn't know what he's doing. You can just do whatever the fuck you want to him. I go, there's guys that can do that to you standing up. Like, you got to be careful.

Like, you can't get this in your head that you're awesome at something. So you're awesome at everything. Right. Cause the type of mentality that a person has to become, whether it's a championship level MMA fighter or boxers that, that focus, that intense focus, like sometimes guys get twisted and they think that because I'm a Brazilian jujitsu champion, I could be a kickboxing champion. I could be an MMA champion. I could do whatever the fuck I want to do. But the road is long, man. The road is long.

People forget all that they went through to acquire such a set of skills to get there in the first place. And I understand that a highly, highly specialized jiu-jitsu or wrestler can go out there and experience success in MMA right away. However, like you said, they might come across that guy who is so good on their feet that they can do whatever they want to to that guy and just leave them clueless. And you can't take them down. Or there's that person that you're just not able,

you take them down once, twice, but they keep getting back to their feet. Now, all of a sudden, you're tired. You've been pushing so much harder because you can't fight a plan B or in this other plane. You have to fight within the plane that you're an expert because you put all your marbles in one basket. You're not a mighty mouse who can kind of do it all in any form. You're a Damien Maa who's learned how to kick box you know got really good at it but when you fight damian maya you know real clear what

his plan is for sure and even still damian maya has has learned to create striking that that helps mitigate other people's striking so that he can get his best game off yeah so that's still a type of stand-up work that he's working on within, that has been specialized for MMA as he fights in the UFC. Do you agree, though, that a guy like Conor McGregor would have way more, like, I feel like the odds of Floyd beating Conor are extremely high in a boxing match. Like in the high 90%. Sure. Right? But the odds of Conor beating Floyd in an MMA match are

100. Pretty much. Pretty much 100. Like 99.9. 9, 9, 9, 9, 9. Conor would have to like really fuck up. He'd have to get, you know, chin checked. Yeah. Doing something. Stupid. He's not kicking. Right. Yeah. He would kick the shit out of his legs. This isn't a fight about who's a better fighter. Right. This is a fight about who's a better boxer. Stupid. Where he's not kicking. Right. Yeah. He would kick the shit out of his legs.

This isn't a fight about who's a better fighter. Right. This is a fight about who's a better boxer. Yeah. And the idea that Conor's just going to step in and just clang Floyd with a straight left is almost as ridiculous as the idea that Floyd's going to step into an MMA fight and catch Conor with a big punch and knock him out Ray Mercer Tim um Tim Sylvia style I say it's more like Floyd Mayweather jumping in that cage and arm barring Conor

you know it's like that yeah yeah yeah catching him in a fucking rolling guillotine yeah yeah fucking Victor roll into a knee bar he's hit him with an Imanari spin catch him with one of them crazy heel hooks well you know Floyd and his heel hooks. Yeah. Well, that was one of the crazy things when James Toney fought Randy Couture. There's all these people speculating how much James Toney's been training MMA. And you get to see him do some stuff with an MMA trainer. And you're like, oh, okay, he's not barely doing this.

He's barely doing this. He doesn't know anything. This is crazy. And then Randy just goes out there, low single on the ankle, just falls over in that end of that night. Yeah, low single, Randy on top. That's a wrap.

Randy was merciful, though. I mean, he punched him a few times and then just choked him. Yeah, yeah, Randy isn't really, he wasn't known for being a particularly vicious competitor. Yeah, I have a feeling you probably would have treated that situation slightly differently.

Yeah, I would have tried to tear him absolutely limb from limb. Not because of any particular personal animosity, just because I go out there to wreck people. Because I want to make sure that if I'm winning, I'm winning. But if you had a guy like a James Toney on the ground who came in from professional boxing, no MMA fights, would you have it in your mind that you need to prove a point? No. Or would you have it in your mind just finish him when you can? Smash him any way possible.

You know, chop his leg, whatever, shoot a double, blow through him, get on top, and then just start doing whatever is available. You're such a nice guy and such a well-spoken guy. You enjoy hurting people in a very disturbing way uh it's what i'm good at it's what i was uh it's what i i learned at an early age that it was something that i excelled at i asked you all just in partly to see your response because i knew that you were going to get worked up about it and you were thinking about smashing them and like what you would do like it's seen in your eyes thinking about taking them down i love face i love that's part of the reason why by leaving fighting i know it's going to be tough not competing because i love going out

there and in some way it is i was explaining this i was actually at a philosophical lecture the other night and uh because i'm a big fan of philosophy what What was the philosophical? Well, this, this lecture was on a 16 part series on, uh, America. And it was this last one, uh, this friend of mine hit me up and she goes, Hey, this thing's going down, uh, at this, this, this school. So, Hey, why don't, why don't we go check it out? All right, cool. And so it had something to do with, uh, futurism and I forget what else, but as the lecture was going on, people would chime in and say stuff. And so at one point I'm listening to some of these, these arguments, some of it, I'm just going, you just don't really, you don't understand people that well. I mean,

every, a lot of these arguments always come from some idea of a base motivation from somebody, like the idea that all capitalism is theft. It's like, well, you know, you don't have to be a horrible person to operate successfully within a capitalist system just as much as, just because you create a communist system doesn't necessarily make you benevolent because as you will look, you know,

in the Soviet Union, and as you've had Robert, or Jordan Peterson on here, and he'll tell you all of the elements of, of the brutality of communist systems. And then of course, I remember being in the eighties and even seeing, uh, slides from, uh, one of my teachers who was over in the Soviet union and sneaking photos out of the USSR because they didn't want any photos of living conditions and all these sort of things, bread lines, all that stuff brought back to the Western world because

they felt it would make them look bad. Well, of course, because it did, you know, and people were entrenched in these systems and abusing these systems to their benefit, just like our politicians abuse our system to their benefit, just like all human beings our system to their benefit, just like all human beings will abuse a system to its benefit when given the chance to do so, either out of selfishness to the point of maliciousness or even just direct maliciousness. So the human element is the key process in all systems. They're pretty much the cause of all systems failing and they always will be. But when you try to create some other roundabout idea, you try to assign, you know, these other crazy concepts as to why, or,

you know, you create these micro group ideologies and you distill and distill and distill and you constantly create like with, with Marxism, it's a conflict theory. So there's always has to be some sort of oppressor there always has to be a conflict you know a lot of human beings aren't out there trying to oppress people they're just trying to get theirs right and or you know creating their little tribes and creating what they you know to use a overused word safe space for themselves that which they understand this area they understand these demarcations about this group and these people and this thing and even this area of land at which you live in.

You know, the idea of going, I know I'm going off on a tangent here from our original discussion, but the idea of like personal property and, you know, you have your fence line around, let's say a piece of property. I was walking through Joshua Tree

and looking at all this stuff and pondering some things. And, you know, that line, isn't just about me owning this and keeping other people out and being, and looking at it. And someone wants to say, Oh, you just want to be selfish and own and be greedy and dominate something. And it's like, well, actually think about it this way. That line is the same as an extension from my own personal space. You know, I know you, so you, so you can get right in my personal space and I don't care because we've already vetted each other.

We've already had a relationship. I have a good understanding of who you are as Joe Rogan and your being in the world and you understand me to a degree as well as Josh Barnett. Versus some guy who just shows up at your house. Versus some guy, some thing, anything that you don't know you don't know versus so you have this fence line is is what you're doing is you're you're creating this space that is just in a person it's just an extension of your own personal bubble of your own personal safe space and so within that you feel like you've vetted it

you know these rocks you know these plants you understand the the pluses and minuses of this area that exists and so within this place existence, you can be your most authentic self without any concern of the rest of the world. Now, if somebody something was to come and want to cross that that line, you'd want to say, well, I don't know what it is yet. So I want to vet that source and then say, OK, yeah, it's OK. I'll allow you into my, into my space, into my area. And so now you too can also be open to the vulnerability that I'm giving you, because that's what it is. You know, our personal space is about our vulnerability, about the ability for someone else to, you know, interact with us physically as well as emotionally.

And so even just having your little cabin with your little fence, that little fence isn't just about... Yeah, the idea that you can't have that, right? Well, that would be Marxist ideas of no private property. Everybody gets an acre. Yeah. And, you know, there's not like a lot of full-on old-school Marxists anymore. They're all pretty much neo-Marxists from the,

as Peterson and other people have described, from the Frankfurt schools, you know, permeating into the academia and going after the superstructure instead of the base. I think there's an undeniable aspect that you talked about before where with your ex-girlfriend, at least, or with some people like that, we don't even have to single out her, that people that are not successful in the competition of life seek to diminish the success of those around them.

Yes. Yeah. Well, also, the other thing about that is the value that you create. What is your values? What is your value system? And how is that going to influence you? So if your value system is based on external elements, like Nietzsche talks about the danger of unchecked envy, envy being a life-affirming element. If I envy Joe

Rogan and his podcast, which I do, I can see that, well, Joe was able to create this podcast. So the possibility exists for a person to create a podcast and to be successful with and expand from there on out. So that envy can drive me to then work towards it because I know it's a possibility. Having unchecked envy would be to be angry at you for having that podcast and thinking that, well, he's got this thing and I want that thing. I deserve it too. Or even if you don't deserve it, burn it to the ground.

Why? Right. Because you're so upset about it. That's the lowest of self-esteems, right? The people that not only do they not think they can compete, they don't deserve it, burn it to the ground. Why? Right. Because you're so upset about it. That's the lowest of self-esteems, right? The people that not only do they not think they can compete, they don't want anyone to be successful because they don't think they're ever going to be successful. And every day, throughout social media, people are seeing manufactured, manicured interpretations of life and thinking and weighing themselves against that. So that's just one example of how you are using these external forces to determine your value systems or putting value on things that are beyond your control or putting value in areas that are unnecessary, that are actually harmful to you.

And so people, if I had to just walk away from everything, like my muscle cars and all that stuff. And I know, I know it's a horrible thought. I have a, I have some projects that are, that are going to be to completion here soon that are, I'm just so looking forward to. You still driving the challenger though,

that you're my mode of transportation. Yeah. That's my daily driver, but I'm replacing it with a 75 formula Firebird with a four 55 that I punched out the four 70 automatic overdrive trans and Hotchkiss suspension. And, uh, Wilwood breaks all the way around on it. It's going to be fucking great. 455 that I punched out the 470 automatic overdrive trans and hot kiss suspension Wilwood brakes all the way around on it It's gonna be fucking great 9-inch board in the back speaking of which Gabriel Iglesias was just on Jay Leno's garage

Yeah, and he's got a dope Burt Reynolds fucking smoking the bandit Trans Am. Yeah, they do build them off the new Camaro Oh, yeah, he was loving it. Is that what his is his is from? Yeah, well the new Camaros. Yeah, he was loving it. Is that what his is? His is from one of the new Camaros? Yeah, it's built off the new Camaro, yeah. I just saw the picture of him standing with Jay next to the car. That car looks sick. It is. It's a sweet car. I've seen him at SEMA. That's a car that doesn't impress girls at all.

That's a car only for... Look at that fucking thing. So that's based on a new Camaro? Oh, the one on the left. The one on the left is a real 77. Oh, look at this new one. The one on the right is a brand new one. Holy shit.

So there's two. Oh, my God. So they put a front new nose piece on it. They put the shaker scoop. And this one, they put an LS3. Because Pontiac, for folks who don't know, doesn't even exist anymore. Dead. I wonder if they could do that with the ZL1.

Of course they could. They could do it with anything. You know that ZL1 is one of the fastest cars to ever lap the Nurburgring? Yes. Faster than the Corvette Z06. Yes. Faster than anything. It's incredible what we're doing with cars.

So if I had to give all this shit up. American muscle cars right now. If I had to give all this shit up, I would hate it. Look at that. That's amazing. I would hate it. Burt Reynolds signed it. I would not love it.

Yeah, it's a Burt Reynolds edition. Holy shit, he signed it. Yeah. So, but if I did, truth be told. Look at the Herschifter. My dick is hard as a rock. Truth be told, I can get rid of all these things. I can be free of all of that stuff and still have a life that makes me highly happy.

But it's not going to be crazy. I know. I don't want to get crazy. I'm going to extremes. Those Marxists are fucking with your head man they're changing your value i know they want to take my firebird my gt500 and all that stuff but uh you know i can't help it that my car has more boosts than yours yeah you can't but uh uh the thing is is that it's where i put my values or what what is valuable to me and what's valuable and and living and being so for someone else they they put these things on other stuff and they they give responsibility

what they end up doing is transferring that power to external sources and when you start working off of external sources as your your value as your value system then you've taken away that power from yourself right and so well there's also the rejection i i have a rejection the idea that you can't enjoy people's creations i think of a car as a creation yeah i mean i think of it a lot of ways is like a mass-produced piece of art sure you know what what someone's done in creating like that uh that new uh what is it the demon yeah dodge demon right that challenger that will go 960s. It goes 0 to 60 in less than three seconds.

Yeah. And it's a production car. Yeah. And you can't drive it if it's colder than 15 degrees out. You can't drive it. It's like, it's such a fucked up car. But like, that to me is, I'm fascinated that someone chose to make it. I like the, I look at that the same way I look at them doing space exploration. Like, oh, that's all going to trickle down to regular cars.

Sure. They're going to figure out how to make Tang out of this. Sure. And that's the thing is that these things wouldn't exist if people weren't driven to express their will to power and grow, to want to be their greatest version of themselves, to create a greater thing than the last thing, to push that envelope. While it's not always going to be successful, it's the idea of creating something greater and greater and greater. Now, I mean, there's an argument with, with science that there's always a,

you know, is it, uh, shoulda or coulda, you know, of course there, there, there is an element of ethics that has to play into that. I think that you need to be aware of. And there's also with objects, you don't want to get obsessed and fixated on objects, but it doesn't mean you can't enjoy a new laptop. Right. Well, and I think that a lot of these, these new like champagne socialist type folks, uh, they, they enjoy, they enjoy these, the new laptops and the new iPhones and all that stuff. And it's, they love all the modern conveniences of, of the capitalist country that we live in. And if someone wanted to sit down and talk to me about the elements of our society,

of our capitalist economy, and how the issues within it now, totally, I get it. No, our system is fucked up in a lot of ways. Don't get me wrong. But by it and having things, you know, taken away, new laws created, altered, like it's so impossible, right? But it's like, it's a system that works outside of us, even though we're supposedly the ones that can control it. But you create a communist system, right? You create a full state-secured system. You really have no ability to affect that. Right. You don't have the options.

Without some sort of violent revolution, which doesn't, not probably in your best interest with the way technology and military and all that stuff. I mean, no one wants things to get to that point. So they always preach a ramped down version of it, though, because like the. Well, there's never any. By the way, there's never been a true, a true communist system or there's never been true Marxism. It's always the fucking no true Scotsman fallacy. It's like it never happened. This never happened yet.

And it's like, what the fuck do you think the Soviets were doing? What do you think that the Maoists, they all thought they were doing it right. You know, And even then, when you go to look at China nowadays, well, they got all these capitalist elements within it that are making their economy just fucking flush with money. So flush with money that they're like,

I don't want to give it to the government. So they send it all over to Vancouver and buy up all these houses and stuff like that. And then have their teenage kid live there. All over Hollywood, even Bel Air. Right. A lot of Asian money, a lot of money from Saudi Arabia as well. Right.

And Saudi Arabia, you're talking theocracy. Yeah. And they're worried about their money getting taken away over there. So they buy real estate over here. Yeah. And also it's very valuable. It keeps going up. It's a good investment.

And when you're making trillions of dollars by sucking oil out of the ground. Sure, sure, sure. And at the end of the day, the thing about all this stuff is that if you give people the most opportunity to be free, you're also giving them the most opportunity to be shitty. And you have to accept that. You just have to accept that some people are just going to be fucking assholes. Some people are going to be shitty. that you just have to accept that some people are just going to be fucking assholes some people are going to be shitty some people are going to try and create a system that that you're not going to like that's going to reward others for things that you don't think it should but you're always going

to get those hedge fund dudes you're always going to get those guys who have those gigantic estates in the hamptons and yeah fuck people you know and my ex-girlfriend uh graduated with a with a physics degree didn't use it okay fine but you spent all this money to go to that school and should it have And my ex-girlfriend graduated with a physics degree. Didn't use it. Okay, fine. But you spent all this money to go to that school. And should it have cost that much money? Should the rates on loans be what they are? I don't think so.

I think that's a real scam. You didn't probably understand or were ill-equipped to understand like all of us were when it came to school. Yeah, when you were 18, you didn't know what the fuck that means. We didn't really understand what a racket it was at the time. So, you know, I totally feel for her there. And then, so then she goes

and she gets a different job doing something else but made her great money but she hated it, didn't like it, didn't want to be in that. All right, so then chose to fight and do like, you know,

personal trainer stuff and then would always gripe about how she didn't make enough money and it's like, well, you could do, okay, well, then how about this? You charge X amount per hour normally. Well, how about you set a limit to where you get to X amount of people? And then once you go over that, now you double the fee because it's not really worth it to you anymore, is it? So you create an increase and you see what your minimum

is and then over that. And if people are willing to pay it then they pay it. Well I couldn't do that. That would be unethical to charge these people double what I'm charging these people or whatever. It's like well okay then how about you create a class schedule set up and you iron out some time here instead of teaching one

person you teach five people but then you charge them two thirds what you charge it's just like, well, okay. At the end of the day, we have to do what we need to do to pay our bills and do these things and do whatever. But we also have to determine how we acquire those bills to what our expenses are going to be. And if we can't create a system that supports that, then we have to reevaluate that and then change appropriately. The one thing we can't do is just be upset, you know? But that's what people like to do.

Of course, because they would like it to be, oh, well, I can do this or I should be able to do this, I should be able to do that. It's like, nobody should. It's fun, though. You can. You can do these things. People just love to bitch and just chase their tail

and go around in circles. Freedom, being truly free, You can. You can do these things. You can do these things. People just love to bitch and just chase their tail and go around in circles. Freedom. Being truly free in, let's just say, an existential sense means that you have to take responsibility for all these actions. But it's also all on you to find your own success. And that means you're going to fail. That means you're going to struggle. That means all these difficulties are going to happen. But I personally believe that through struggle and these difficulties, that's where growth comes as well.

Well, the question is what's the alternative? The alternative is what? You sit around and complain whenever someone else is more successful than you. You sit around and complain that you're not making enough money. You sit around and complain that the deck is stacked against you. You sit around and complain that you didn't use your education. You sit around and complain that in your field of choice you didn't succeed. Well, here's the other thing.

A lot of people then want to find somebody who is the reason for their downfall yeah this thing is what's keeping me from uh being successful that's the boyfriend i wasn't you know i everything i did was to help you know i did as much as i could you're too big talk too much shit you're too opinionated too smart i'm tired of it yeah i i i put it you know at the end of the day you know fuck i got you know i got completely betrayed and cheated on for months in the end of it well so it's just like oh well you know i put all this investment into trying to help this other person and create a life with them only to get completely screwed over in the end but i'm sorry to hear about that but we're getting super personal here. Yeah, it's true. But, but what it comes down to also is that when you look at these

kinds of things, you have to say, well, okay, well, what would I have done differently? And you should be like, for the most part, you shouldn't have done anything differently. You know, when you invest in somebody else, when you do for somebody else, you don't do it for the return or for what you think you're going to get out of them. You do it because you're doing it because it is what you believe is the right thing to do. And then to be, you know, you can be upset about other, the way things have turned out. You can be upset about like, well, you know, ethically, I think you did this or you did that. And you can be upset about those things. But then to, it's just like, whenever you come across that person that just has nothing but shitty things to say about their ex like it's probably you oh dude you know for me i could be

like nah i thought my ex was the greatest woman i'd ever met and she absolutely possessed qualities that uh aligned with that but she also had some really terrible ones that ended up being you know right whenever you meet someone and all they do is complain about their exes it's usually there's usually a little of them and what they're saying but see that that's just you know, right. Whenever you meet someone and all they do is complain about their exes. It's usually, there's usually a little of them and what they're saying, but see that that's just, you know, this is just human beings in their own existence. And so be it their relationship,

be it their business, be it, you know, all these things are, are all stemming from the same elements within themselves. Now they are subject to others, you know, very specific elements to like things that are relationship like what kind of

elements well okay when it comes to get a point to like what's the for most people like what's the the big factor in not getting their shit together uh the big factor not getting the shit together is not coming to terms with their own inefficiency uh failures or inability to accomplish a certain task. And looking outside of that for a reason versus looking internally to see like, I didn't have enough skill to do X, Y, to do this thing. Or I didn't put in enough time to acquire the skill to do that. Or I made a mistake here that cost this. When it comes to relationships, you know, it's there, where it lies,

where the difficulty lies, there can be specific to different emotional elements, you know, versus your work, versus how you even find time to make the most out of your leisure time. You know, these are, every situation has its own subjectivity to it based on these other external factors that change from each situation.

But ultimately, everything's stemming from you anyways. So your way of approaching these things and dealing with these problems and how you let them affect you. And I'm not just talking about being a complete stoic and being just cold and unaffected and unfeeling. It's just about having these things happen. And then what do you do about it? You know, how do you also, how do you measure that metric? If you have the greatest year of life, and then you have, you know, an hour that's super shitty in traffic did that become and that really stuck with you and someone hit your car and you're you know my challenger's

got a dent in it and it's like oh did i really have the worst day ever or did i just have an hour of an aggravation that sucked but ultimately how can that if i allow that to take away from everything that happened up to that point then you know i just assigned all this value into this one moment right that really was unnecessary you train a lot of fighters like you you work with do you do you sit down and talk to them about this kind of shit as well 100 is this a big part of like how you like think about it as a program for sure because whoever i take under my wing, I don't just train people to train them. Um, I don't, them being fighters is one piece of their life. One element,

one honestly, eventually it'll be, it'll be a small element, but it, but it has a lot of impact and meaning. I mentor people when I work with them. I'm trying to help them visualize and achieve their greatest state of being from what they can get. Now, fighting may be a vehicle to help try to achieve that. But ultimately, they're living their life and they have something that they're trying to accomplish with that. And so for me, I'm trying to help them realize what that is. And that's going to be different for other people, just as much as you can't coach everyone the same way. Everybody needs something a little different in terms of what they're trying to achieve. And people want to achieve different things. Of course, they've got this, they have this element

of fighting and success within fighting that is a bond, that is a similarity amongst the rest of them and even amongst me but beyond that that changes from there on out so um you know just recently i've been working with travis brown you know people are like holy fuck you guys are your homies what the hell happened and it's just the thing was is that travis uh was had tried to get in touch with me through uh marina before like hey he'd really like he really wants to talk to you and i'm just like The thing was is that Travis had tried to get in touch with me through Marina before. Like, hey, he really wants to talk to you. And I'm just like, okay, I wonder what he wants to talk about. And this is like over a year ago, I think. But for one reason or the other, we weren't able to ever cross paths.

But through that time, it would keep coming back. He really wants to, he really liked, he really liked to see you. Not just text you, not just chat with you on the phone, but actually see you. Okay. You know, that already says something to me that, that already has a lot more meaning. And so sure enough, I meet up with him this, this one time we had coffee shop, and he just wanted to sit down man-to-man, eye-to-eye, and just go over any of the beef that we had had and make his statements and any apologies and anything that I might have to say and any apologies. And I was like, holy fuck. I use man, I'm not trying to be specific, but any person that is willing to sit down and be accountable and hear somebody else's side and just show up and be like, look, man, I'm not looking for something from you, but I'm trying to be open and deal with whatever this is out here.

Put it to bed. Yeah. That's very admirable. Exactly. It is such a rare commodity. And how long ago did this happen? Maybe about six months ago. And he's got a fight schedule right now. That's right. Maybe ago did this happen? Maybe about six months ago. And he's got a fight schedule right now.

That's right. Maybe it was even a little more than six months ago. He's fighting Alexi Olenek. And so he hits me up. He goes, hey, I would love it if you could help me out. So for me, it was a no-brainer. Like, fuck yeah, I'll be there. And so I drove out to Vegas with one of my guys, Shohei Yamamoto, who was getting ready for his, the Kyokushin kid.

He's fighting locally here in CXF. So I'm like, I'm going to finish this kid's camp out here away from everybody else. And I'm going to help you out at the same time. Cool? Cool. So he put us up in his place. We would go and we'd train twice a day. I would work with him on grappling.

I would spar with him. And, you know, just take on that role of coach alongside Ricky Lundell and Ray Cepho. And he's a fantastic student. When did he start working with Ray? I think he's been working with Ray for about a year now. About a year, I think. That's a good move. He's kicking again.

Thank God. He's throwing knees, which is great. Yeah, a guy 6'7". 6'7 and moves like Dominic Cruz. Yeah, yeah. I mean, when he was not—sorry, Dominic. But, I mean, when he was at his best for a heavyweight, there's no one who moves like Dominic Cruz. Yeah, yeah. I mean, when he was not, sorry, Dominic, but I mean, when he was at his best for a heavyweight, there's no one who moves like him.

He was, he's very agile on his feet. He's got great, great quickness, good, and he's got great reach, good power. Hell, I should know. And the thing is, he was having, he just didn't feel that he was getting what he best needed, so he made a change. And even still, for fighting someone like Alexei, he felt that, oh, well, having a guy that was a good grappler

and also good at that head and arm position, which Alexei likes, to have someone come in here and work with him in these very specific areas. But for me, it's like, well, if you want me to be here, I'll be here and I'll help you in any way I can. And so I would work with him while we're sparring. We would do situational stuff. And, you know, he was just like a sponge and watching him get better every day and having some other guys around to help and be bodies, too. And it ended up being great. It also was great for Shohei because I was able to put him in a very isolated environment and keep his focus so razor sharp.

And he went and knocked his guy out in 22 seconds. He was undefeated. That's awesome. So now Travis is in town doing some press stuff, and I'm going to try and link up with him as much as possible and just keep working with him. And the thing is, guys like that, I mean, they're already physical. They already have fights under their belt.

They're already accomplished. With them, it under their belt. They're already accomplished. With them, it's about nuance. So are you going to be his head coach? There's discussion of that, yeah, maybe. But the reality is that I just need to do whatever it is I can do to help him and his team and be a part of all that. And whether I'm a head coach or a assistant coach, I don't really care. It doesn't matter what the title is. I just need to be in there, in the trenches with these

guys, putting our heads together and helping Travis be the best he can be as a fighter. And even then, well, through these training sessions, you know, you're teaching somebody about getting out of a move, you're teaching somebody about doing a move, but wrapped in that whole bubble is, okay, you're having a hard time right now. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's okay. Because you're still moving forward. Don't worry about how difficult it is that sometimes this is going to be hard as shit. Other times things will work just like that. It doesn't matter. The matter is you got to keep going. You got to keep moving forward. You got to keep moving forward you got to keep fighting you got to keep working and you then went you know from from one position it's like well you can't afford to be here at all so no matter how hard it is you got to get out but you can rest

over here or it's like uh you know this this this training session was super fucking hard that's great if you're not pushing yourself into your absolute exhaustion now, how do you think you're going to perform when it's at its utmost? So he wasn't getting that. No, no, no. I think it's just, I'm just throwing out examples, but it's just about working with him on a mental level too, and getting his mind in that best state to then best use those physical capabilities. Because ultimately, in my opinion, mental is the most important aspect when it comes to fighting, how you approach these things, your mentality towards each individual skirmish within that fight that eventually leads to either your success or your failure. And that is always,

that's always the thing. It's like whether I could teach someone to throw a kick this way or kick that way, or, you know, there's always a way to make something work. Maybe there are some techniques that are more low percentage than others, but there will always be a guy that can make it work. However, the way you approach a fight mentally is the fucking thing that is the hardest thing to hone, the hardest thing to hone the hardest thing just to change over the hardest realizations to create is all in terms of how you mentally approach a fight how to control your nerves or how to oh look at your writing this out like as a book yeah i do i think about writing i think about writing i think in terms of fighting i think

about writing in terms of philosophy i think think about maybe doing speaking engagements, stuff like that. If you sat down and came up with sort of a comprehensive step-by-step for young fighters, that would be super valuable. Maybe. I don't know. I guess if you come up with a step-by-step, sure, you could do that, which, of course, is going to be just like you said, framework. Yeah. Give them tools to fall back on if they're in a certain situation. This is something you can call on. This is something you can think about if you find yourself stuck. This is the mindset instead of just swimming out there. Sure. Freaking out and treading water and trying to figure out how long you do it for. Have a very specific mindset that you adopt or that you take on when you're in a bad spot. Sure. And, and a lot of, uh, drills and things that I'll create for, for fighters are based on

creating comforts and, and familiarity to where things get to a point where you're not thinking about it anymore, but you're, you're so comfortable. And in that moment, in that space, that you can react and act easily, as most easily as possible. And also, once you end up in a position that is negative to you, that is detrimental, how to then work your way through it and still do so with comfort. watching Liz Karmush on Ronda's back because Ronda stayed so, so calm that that's how she was able to work her way through it, fight that arm off her head, keep in good position, eventually work her way out of it instead of seizing up and possibly locking in place and then Liz being able to finish that face lock or that choke. What did you think about that Kevin Lee-Kiesa fight? I didn't watch it.

You didn't watch it? No. How dare you? I know. I'm a fighter that doesn't really watch fights. It was a crazy ending. So I heard. Yeah.

Kevin Lee took Kiesa's back, which is Kiesa's thing, right? Yeah. And he took his back, sunk the choke in. Kiesa fought her off. He went palm to palm. Kiesa was trying to gut it out, he says. And Mario Yamasaki steps in and stops it before he taps. I wouldn't have done that.

No one does that. Especially to a choke. It's one thing if a guy's arm is snapped and you see it broken and then you call the fight. But this is not that. And he's saying that he thought he went out. It's just 100% poor officiating. I mean, I haven't seen any argument from anybody on the right side. I mean, in terms of people that either work for the UFC, trainers, fighters,

even jiu-jitsu athletes. Everybody says this is – You should let him go out. You got to let him go out. I agree. It's not a bad thing. For people who don't know, it's not like getting knocked out. Yeah, he could have been dreaming about being with two chicks.

Yeah, it doesn't hurt you is my point for people who don't understand what we're advocating. It's not like let a guy get knocked out. When we get knocked out, it's not good. But when you get choked out, it's almost nothing. It literally is almost nothing. Pretty much. Your neck's going to be sore. Yeah,

for sure. And I don't, I don't think, you know, I know Mario. I've known him for a long time. And, he just made a mistake.

And that's the thing, you know, referees are human. They all, look, it's a fucking very hard job. He probably thought Kiesa went out. He thought,

he saw, here, take a look at it here. Let's play the whole thing back from the beginning, Jamie, so you can see that. I can only get it from here. Okay, go from there. So he's got it. He locks it on the neck.

Sure. He's got the body triangle. Kiesel's fighting it. He peels it off. And then Kevin locks the body triangle down tighter. I see it. Yeah, yeah. Gets that palm to palm.

And look at this. See, he's fighting it off. And look, he's not out at all he's like i didn't tap what the fuck i didn't tap i think that's a bullshit stoppage and it's not you know look mario made a mistake but it's a bullshit stoppage 100 i can't even imagine anybody defending that stoppage there's no reason well it's not like you're gonna defend it because if you don't defend making that stoppage. He's crazy.

Well, I understand that, but people don't want to accept any blame. Let's watch it one more time. Because accepting blame may. He's gutting it out. Yeah. He's gutting it out, man. Look, people don't realize it takes a lot of effort to squeeze that. Palm to palm in particular using a lot of muscle. There's not a whole lot of, it's not the same kind of leverage that you get when you do the traditional karate chop.

I see his hands kind of up in the air here. But, I mean, you can still grab, you can touch the guy's arm. Yeah, yeah. And they're stiff. Yeah. He's still resisting. And you don't have to, it's not like strikes where you have to have your hands up covering yourself. Like, to resist it, he can resist by just really flexing his neck it's

not smart and tyron woodley had the best commentary on this honestly he was on that uh ufc panel show sure and he's like look you shouldn't he goes you shouldn't be in that position in the first place you shouldn't be defending it like that with your hands like that and you shouldn't have let that guy get his arm under your chin like that all those those things are bad technique, and he's dead right. Yeah. He's dead right. The whole thing is kind of crazy. I mean, yeah.

But he took a beating before that. He took a beating before that. This is one of the things you don't get in the context of this. As he was getting shellacked? Yes, because Kevin Lee had his back, and while he had his back, see if you can find that. I mean, I can see that he's cut. Oh, he's been bleeding. He had his back, and he was beating the fuck out of him

from behind with his back. Just bang, bang, bang while he's back riding him. He beat the shit out of him before that. He's probably stunned. I'm also of the sort that sees guys that are getting hit in the four point position, turtle position. Guys are swinging on them

and they've got their arms up and they're covered. Often, a lot of times, I're like, just keep letting it go. You're not getting through, but reps will see, like, oh, it looks bad, we're stopping. It's like, but he's not really getting hit. I agree with you, 100%. I think there's been many fights where fights were stopped quick when a guy was covered up where there's nothing else he could do but cover up.

What else is he going to do? Yeah, the guy's swinging on him, but he can't land a successful... The only reason that guy is flaring so hard, really, I mean, well, not the only, but the main reason is probably because he thinks the ref's going to stop it. Exactly. Beyond that, he wouldn't put that kind of effort into it

unless he's just completely losing his shit and being like, oh, fuck it, it's a shit job. And he's not thinking about it, which could come back to haunt him. Like, I've seen a lot of times, old, old, old, old school fights, guys even in mount just try to unload on a guy and the guy survives it, reverses it, and eventually he gets his and it's done. Shane Carwin, Brock Lesnar.

Yeah. Perfect example. Yeah. Shane Carwin beat the fucking shit out of Brock Lesnar for a full round. Got on top of him, full mount. Yep. Dropping bombs on him. Yep.

Somehow or another Brock Lesnar survives, takes Shane down the second round, submits him quick. It happens. You've got to let fights play out. But I think in that situation, there's no argument for stopping the fight. Because it's not like strikes. There could be an argument where Brock Lesnar is on the bottom

and he's not moving enough, and maybe some people who are a little bit more cautious might have stopped that fight. But there's no argument to stop that fight. I don't think that the fight should have been stopped. So what do you do about that? I think that Michael Chiesa needs to do a better job

of not letting guys get under his chin. Yeah. But what do you do about that? If you're the commissioner, if you're the king of the world, do you make it a no contest? I think if you're a commissioner,

you, I don't know, I kind of feel like you have to keep him, give him the win. It's hard to reverse something like that. It's a mistake that the referee fucked up. For sure, he stopped the fight,

but he stopped the fight based on a, and this is where I'm going to go against myself, a very advantageous position that was as close to finalizing and finishing as you can discern, where a guy's no longer defending with his hands. He's hanging in there. I mean, I think Mario fucked up because he didn't let it get to 10,

but he let it get to 9. It got to 9. Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing, too. He was so locked into that choke. You can't take his victory away. I feel like you can't take Kevin Lee's victory away. Me, too.

It's just no good. There's no good that comes of that. It's not good. Do you give him an immediate rematch? I think that's the move. That's exciting. That's a good that comes of that. It's not good. But... Do you give them an immediate rematch? I think that's the move. That's exciting. That's a good move. Yeah, I could see that.

But here's the thing, you know, this is prize fighting. Right. Is there the interest? I think there is. All right, then make it happen. I think there is. Then make it happen.

I'm interested. The promoters got to make money on it. Yeah, I think that's a good fight to have in Detroit because I think they're going to do a UFC in Detroit, I heard. I'm scheduled to do a UFC in Detroit, I heard. I'm scheduled to do a— Isn't Detroit having a UFC basically every night? No, I think it's different.

It's more like a battlecade. Old school. John Peretti's just hanging around saying, Oh, that's so sexy. Just a sexy joke. He's riding them like a pony. Most people have no idea what we're talking about. Oh, I have party with John Peretti.

I love John Peretti's commentary. Oh, it's... I just enjoy him. It's fantastic. I mean, and, you know, him, he brought a lot of really good fighters to the world of MMA. He did. He had a great eye for picking talent. He was the guy that

found Andrei Arlovsky. Igor Zinoviev. Mario Sperry. Maurice Smith. Matt Hume. I was going to bring up Sakuraba. When Sakuraba fought Conan in the UFC, that was the first time we saw a Brazilian

black belt get submitted. We thought they were invulnerable. The fight before that, he clipped Sakuraba with a good shot. Sakuraba drops in on a single, and then- Big John accidentally stopped the fight. Right. But then they let him fight again.

Yes. Which is the craziest fucking thing ever. Like, they would never do that today. No, never. That's crazy. I forgot about that. That is a very, very unusual turn of events. Randy Couture beat Marie Smith for the UFC heavyweight title.

And his tights got torn. So you could see his speedos underneath that Randy was wearing. Wasn't that when Frank Shamrock also beat Kevin Jackson? Yep. Armbar. In like 20 seconds. With shoes on. Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. Old school, man. I loved it. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Old school, man. I loved it. That was the first UFC. That's when I quit. I quit that UFC. I'm like, I'm not going to Japan.

That's when I quit. Back in the old days. When I was doing the post-fight interviews. Didn't we do one back in the day on the graffiti brick wall thing? Yeah. We did something, man. Yeah. Yeah.

That was, you know what? When you won the title, I was there, but I wasn't working for the UFC. I was just watching. And that was back when I was just friends with Dana, and I was just going to the events and enjoying them. I watched you fight Randy from like, I think I was like six feet away. I think I was like front row. Back in the day, Josh Barnett.

Back in the fucking day, man. Baby face assassin with less scars and a lot less gray hair. Dude, I remember you fighting in Hawaii. Yep, Super Bowl. Yeah. Dan Severn and that eight-man tournament that I won that had all those dudes in it. Abu Dhabi champion Rico Rodriguez and John Marsh, Travis Fulton. I think he only had like 115 fights at that point.

How much does Travis have now? Doesn't he have like 300 fights? I don't know, man. Something insane? Jeremy Horn I always thought was insane because he had like 150. And then you find out about Travis. Dan Severance got like 100. Does he?

Yeah. Like 100 victories or 100 fights? Isn't he still fighting? I don't think so. He's been doing a little bit of pro wrestling, but no fighting. He had a very gray, blurry line between fighting and pro wrestling, to put it charitably. There was like some... There was a couple that people had called into question.

A couple of Takatas in there. Yeah. Well, it's amazing that he kept it up as long as he did, but that was because of his solid wrestling. Well, he's just like a real serious competitor. He had that competition streak that would allow him to continue to drive and perform like that. But as he got older, the wrong matchups. It could be a guy you never even heard of, and it's like, oh, shit, Dan Severn just got shellacked.

Yeah, well, when you look back at your initial fights in MMA, like in Super Brawl, and then entering into the UFC, when was your first fight in the UFC, what year? Uh... 2001? Yeah, see that was when I was... Or 2000. Not working with them yet. That was when I quit. Well, it was UFC 28. Yeah. Gam McGee.

And then UFC 30 was Pedro Hizzo. 32 was Sem Schilt. 34 was Bobby Hoffman. You fought Pedro Hizzo when Pedro Hizzo was Pedro Hizzo. 32 was Sam Schilt. 34 was Bobby Hoffman. You fought Pedro Hizzo when Pedro Hizzo was Pedro Hizzo. Yep. Dude, we showed a clip yesterday of Pedro Hizzo leg-kicking some guy and making him fly through the air. Some journalist pulls the pad

on his leg, and Pedro leg-kicks him, and the guy's legs literally go upside down, where his legs are above his head. He goes flying. He's such a cool dude, man. It's just like seeing him over all the years training at his gym in in brazil when i was down there he came picked me up uh picked up me and my ex and we we went out there trained with this guy uh master letal who is uh one of the was this

before after your second fight uh after our second fight oh wow yeah we were down there me and my ex and uh and we're down there to help corner Shayna in her last fight in the UFC. It was in Brazil against Nunes. And while we're down there, it's like, hey, I still want to get in training, and I want to train with all the Luta Livre, like, catch-derived guys that I can.

And so, yeah, we trained with Master Leitao for a while, and Pedro just let us use his gym. And we would sit there and talk, and I'd go, you know, one of the things about Pedro, I'd go he he taught me how to throw the counter right hand even better than than I'd ever known and that pivot step and they hit it from the other angle because he knocked me the fuck out with it and it was so beautiful in the replay I'm like I need to learn that I gotta learn that that's too and Pedro would just laugh about it he goes oh well you know you got me.

I go, who gives a shit, man? We were too busy having fun. You caught him with a left hook, right? I caught him with a counter right hand. Did you? Over his jab. And I saw him stumble a little bit. And I charged forward and then with a running left hook, yeah.

Because I saw the window of opportunity to get in there. I'd already stunned him. And so to a degree, I'm like, thanks, Pedro. Thanks, Pedro. Did he have the hardest leg kicks you've ever felt? Crow Cop. Crow Cop? Really?

Yeah. Wow. That's crazy. Well, I would imagine. I mean, if anybody. Here's just a Crow Cop story. So it's me and Mirko and Eric Paulson, and we're training in Vegas. I think, I don't know if I was doing commentary on that show if i was fighting pavel not solo either way we're training

at this gym in vegas and miracle came out so we're rolling around and training together and having a good time and and i think i was fighting and so uh paulson's holding pads for me and miracle was like ah do this with your left hook instead. Alright, how about nah, that's not it. Nah, no, no, no. Here, let me show you. Here, you hold the pad. So Paulson's got this full-on tie pad, leather tie pad and he's holding it for

Mirko's right hook since, you know, we're talking lead hook, essentially. So Mirko's like, no, I want you to do this. You know, you're doing it like X so I need you to do this you know you're doing it like x so I need you to do it like this so watch and he hits this he right hooks this pad this tie pad it goes it tears the straps off of Paulson's arm and it goes flying across the room and hits the wall and bounces off the wall and falls on the fucking ground and And everyone's just like... And Paulson's just...

His hand is still like this, and he looks at me, and he looks at Mirko, and Mirko's just like... And I just... Everybody's just... It's just silence. Wham! Flap! Blam! I just went... See, I took that.

That's what I was getting hit with, and I still managed to stay on my feet because I'm an idiot. Yeah. Jesus Christ. I just remember thinking, how the fuck? This guy is just, at his best, is just absolute, pure, explosive power. Just destruction.

Yeah, well, he broke Bob Sapp's eyeball in a K-1 fight. Remember that? Yeah, dude. He crushed people with those high kicks. His middle kick was so dangerous to me. His middle and his low kick were the most dangerous because I felt like you could see, you could more read the high

kick, but if you read the high kick, or if you were too set up to defend the high kick, if he ripped you in your body, that's your ribs. Pull that picture. Heath Herring versus Crow Cop, where Crow Cop's kicking him in the body, and Crow Cop's shin is like halfway to his spine.

I think there was only one kick, too. Yeah. One kick, and it was like, boom. But it's when you see the penetration of that kick, you realize, like, that's insane. And he had a Taekwondo background that helped him. But, know a guy like that you could have gave him fucking you could have had him doing anything and he's just gonna be a beast you know he had just such ferocious ferocious explosive power i remember his stare down with vanderley probably the best stare down of all time first time vanderley got outstared you know he's vanderley's like doing the crazy eyes and

merco's just staring at him like a fucking evil predator. The two of them look at each other. I'm like, I got to give that one to Cro Cop. I can't believe this. Well, think about Cro Cop. Cro Cop, that guy was a motherfucker who was in war. Look at that kick. Ugh.

Fuck. Jesus Christ. I mean, that is deep into his body and right where his liver is. That's an insane power kick. That's that left leg. Yep, and he was the first one to flatline Vandele too. Remember that? When he head kicked Vandele?

Yeah, I especially do because I was watching that fight because I was going to go fight Noguera after that. So I'm sitting here hoping that these guys beat the shit out of each other. And he goes out there and just fucking crushes them. So now I'm just sitting here thinking, God damn it. That dude spent two minutes of beating the hell out of this guy. And now I've got to go out and fight Noguera. How crazy is the chin on Mark Hunt? He gets fucking head kicked full on.

He goes down and gets right back up. Oh, there's an OV ovf here's the vandal one yeah ridiculous speed and power and because of the fact that he had that traditional martial arts background he didn't step before he threw that kick a lot of times he just threw it and you didn't see it coming that one just goes over the top of the glove and that's right leg yeah that's right leg hospital left leg cemetery body right leg hospital. Left leg cemetery. Oh, body. Yeah. Done.

Dude. Now, in that fight, I remember he hit Mark Hunt with it a couple times. Yeah. But he just... Well, he dropped him with it in one of the fights. In K-1, yeah. In the K-1 fight, yeah. But not in the MMA fight.

Mark Hunt actually won that one. Yeah. Oof. Well, that was Minotauro. Minotauro took it on the chin. That was another guy that carwin no wait that's uh ron waterman ron waterman there you go boink boink minotaur was one of those guys it was almost like too tough for his own good when he was younger well that's why oh axe kick that's

why when he got towards the end of his career he was just getting knocked out left and right because he'd taken he had lived on his chin for so long that he could no longer take a shot anymore. And that's, honestly, it's not that uncommon. Fujita getting kneed. He's got a crazy highlight reel. You forget sometimes how insane the highlight reel of Mirko Krokop is. Well, people in the, oof, Alexander.

People in the UFC never really saw, they didn't see this guy. No. You know what I mean? No, he was in Pride. Well, I still maintain to this day that Pride was some of the most exciting and spectacular fights in the early days of MMA by far. Agreed. They had some insane matchups, and especially because it was a big percentage of it was the heavyweight division. It was a huge percentage of what by far. They had some insane matchups and especially because it was a big percentage

of it was the heavyweight division. It was a huge percentage of what they were. And the stage that they set for us to compete on was incredible. 90,000 people, Saitama Super Arena. It was fighting in front of, I mean I was fighting in front of like 40,000 people every time I went out there.

I just wish they could have maintained. I loved it. I was a fan of it when I was even working for the UFC. I was always a big Pride fan. I'm like, look, there's room for everybody. Of course. You know, and the thing is, people that were, by having Pride, it opened up eyes. I would always say, like, having another company with a different flavor, maybe it'll draw in other fans that wouldn't maybe necessarily be a

fan of the UFC, but they liked the way that Pride did it. And so that would get them interested in MMA. And therefore, then they might also say, okay, well, maybe I will give this UFC stuff a try. Maybe, well, I like this one fighter, so I'll watch when he's on. It just expands the market. It doesn't diminish it. I think that's the same thing with Bellator. Yeah. I really do. this one fighter uh so i'll watch when he's on you know it just yeah it expands the market it doesn't diminish it i think that's the same thing with bellator yeah i really do i mean i think that what what's good about bellator is that they're developing real world-class talent now michael

chandler you know michael venom page now rory's over there i mean there's world-class talent there you know it's true and uh you know you had mitrione fight fjodor which you know you know crazy man yeah double knockdown that was nuts gets up first it's crazy crazy thing you can't It's true. And he had Mitrione fight Fyodor. Yeah, crazy, man. Crazy match. He had a double knockdown. That was nuts. And then Mitrione gets up first. It's a crazy, crazy thing you can't plan for. So a guy like Fedor, when you see him at this stage of his life

and you see him getting KO'd again, what are your thoughts on that when you watch that? It sucks to see that that's the case. I mean, I love Matt Mitrione too, man. He's a great dude. I train him when I can. And I was glad to seeione too, man. He's a great dude. I train him when I can. And I was glad to see him get that victory. It's a massive victory for him.

As was I. But I'm a friend, and I have been a friend of Fyodor's for such a long time. It sucks to see him not doing well. You're even saying his name right. It's a big commitment. Yeah, it's like Fyodor.

Everybody else says Fedor. Yeah, yeah. But you gotta get fancy on us. Right, like Dostoevsky. It's Fyodor Dostoev Everybody else says Fedor. Yeah, yeah. But you've got to get fancy on us. Right, like Dostoyevsky. It's Fyodor Dostoyevsky, not Fedor. Well, what does everybody say instead of Dostoyevsky? I think they just don't say anything. They're like, D.

What's the correct pronunciation? Dostoyevsky? Dostoyevsky. Dostoyevsky. It's all... Dostoyevsky. Isn't it weird how languages like develop like they're

totally different kind of sounds like you know English has certain sounds sure Russian has these like very specific

noises that you have to turn and then you go to like tonal languages like Thai or Vietnamese oh man or Chinese

oh yeah crazy so interesting you know and Steve Rinella again was here and he had been in Guyana and they had these interviews they did with these local people that were speaking in their native tongue. And it's like this really strange, ancient language. It doesn't sound like anything else. It's really cool to hear. It's like, wow, this might be like what Mayans sounded like. Huh. Yeah, really freaky. When I was in Romania, they were some of the, I don't know the truth on this stuff.

I haven't done the research. So up to your listeners to go follow up. and archaeological findings that would show a language that was not a romance language that still possessed words that existed in modern-day Romanian, and that the idea that perhaps the Romanian language was older than Latin. Whoa. But they also went to the palace of Vlad the Impaler in the middle of Bucharest, which was awesome. Oh, wow. You got to see that guy's house?

Yeah. What the fuck? It's all dug underground so they keep it cool. For people who don't know who Vlad the Impaler was, he was a guy who literally would put people on sticks and then eat in front of them. and then eat in front of them. He would stick sticks through their assholes, put them on spikes out their mouth, and then have them all lined up around him while he sat down and ate.

He also took the merchants, or these guys that he felt had been cheating and scamming the Wallachian, the area that he was in in Romania, Wallachia, the people, and really getting super rich off their backs in a way that they, you know, didn't have an option. And so he went and grabbed them and their kids and would have them build, they were building the steps up to this, to his, to this castle or whatever.

And if the dad died, they would just take the kid and put him in his place. And it's like, this is going to get, until this is completely done, you know, your debt still exists.

Whoa. Jesus Christ. Brutal dude. Brutal times. And that's the guy that Mary Shelley, no, Mary Shelley was Frankenstein. Mary Shelley was Frankenstein, but they...

What the fuck's his name who wrote Dracula? Bram Stoker. Bram Stoker. Yeah, he kind of based it. A lot of it. Some of that, yeah, yeah. Well, and also like the Strigoi, which is an undead creature in Romania. Yeah. Which is actually a really pretty funny Romanian movie called Strigoi,

which is like a comedy horror thing. Really? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's the name they use in that TV show, too. The Strain. Oh, really? Yeah. Strigoi? Yeah, they use that term TV show, too. The Strain. Oh, really? Yeah. Strigoi? Yeah, they use that term a lot.

Have you seen that show? No, I don't have cable or anything like that. In fact, since I moved out and to my own place, I haven't had time to really set up my TV and all that kind of shit. So you just live in like a wild person? Kind of, yeah, yeah. You got email, though, right? I have email. I have internet. I have my laptop. So I'm, I'm, do you watch Netflix like on your laptop? Still watch like documentaries or something? I don't. You don't? Cause I'm, I'm, I'm always out and about. I just got back from Seattle. Uh, I was in Vegas, uh, helping Travis and with my fighter Shohei. Uh, then I had to go to the fights for my guys Shohei and AJ.

They both fought on that night and cornered them. Shit, when I was, I went to Japan and pro-wrestled in June, but I was also there again in March. So you're just a rambling man. Basically, after the dissolution of all that I had been putting all my efforts into for four years i think we got past that right we moved right but this was this was very therapeutic well well here's the thing it's just like all right uh no matter what you know i still have

a lot anymore oh we're not we're not okay we're just saying that that you know it's just like uh moving into you know i had all these things that i was trying to accomplish and so it's just like all right well uh since i'm not putting energies in these areas then i'm going to take that energy and put it somewhere else i'm going to make make use of it you know that's good don't get depressed and sit around and get bummed out at life no well take your own advice there's lots of shit to get bummed out about not Not even, beyond even that thing that we're not talking about. Are you still doing your podcast? I wish. What happened?

I hate to say it, but Fox really dropped the ball big time on it. And the people that were working on the podcast just completely shit the bed. To the point of like, I had Renato and Scotty Epstein on. And we're sitting there 15 minutes before we're gonna go on just chatting whatever and then it's like all right guys where we're gonna go we're gonna film now all right one three two all right boom do our thing nobody even pays attention to look at the front of the footage and cut it from what's not supposed to be aired and then they just throw it up there raw. So Rasaan, Hanato, is being Rasaan.

And we're all doing our stuff. And then I get this email. And Rasaan's like, yo, what the fuck, dude? I do a character. And I go, what are you talking about? So they didn't edit it at all. Didn't edit it. And there was stuff like, hey, I know you're going to be on vacation.

But I'm going to do an on-location interview be on vacation, but I'm going to do a on location interview with this Bangor. I'm going to get it all. I'll get all the MP. I'll just send it to you. Can someone edit it? Oh, I'm off on vacation. I can't help to put their fucking nobody there. There's zero.

There's no one. So then I had to go and reach out to another friend and be like, hey, man, you have some time to fucking chop this up for me and just make a few edits. Yeah, I can do that. And then, you know, put that up. And then it was another thing like, okay, well, Hey guys, if I'm going to do this podcast, I want to have music in it. I want to have bands that I know and love and whatever. I want to play their music. You have rights for their music. That's a nightmare. Right? Well, so I said, do you have some legal forms that we can put together, some boilerplates that we can do and have this happen?

Oh, we don't need that. You don't need that. It's just not being, okay. So I go and I get the management, the artists, everybody's on board.

Who is this person that said that this is okay? This guy. This young guy that worked there? Did he not know anything? Was he like a tech guy? I'm not going to throw anybody's names out there, but there were these two dudes.

There was one guy that was like, he was part of the head of the division or whatever. The landscape has changed in their defense. And then there was another dude that was a producer of sorts, who I got along with great, but when it came to getting it all done, obviously fucking, it didn't work. But the guy that was above him was unable to take blame for

anything and uh and own up to any like fuck-ups and so it wasn't like i was asking for much from him i'm just like well tell me what we're dealing with here so i can know how to appropriately you know react and then you know getting this this whole okay about music so all right so i go and i do all the legwork get everybody everybody to agree, have my guest on. We play some music to start it off. We play music while they're there, while he's there. I'm being an asshole, moshing around the room, having fun, joking around.

And then I watch the video of it and it's like silence. The fuck? I'm just stomping around a room to silence. What the hell is going on? Oh yeah, legal wouldn't clear the music. Why the fuck are we dealing with this now when i asked you before we even did podcast one the before we did the first episode why did we not get that out of the way because you told me we didn't need and it's just like shit like that and so we're we're now like look we're not even

doing it for money right now we're just doing it to to to establish. And this is already going fucking sour. Let me stop you. Why are you doing it with a person, like a network? Why are you doing it with Fox? Because they came to me. You could do it on your own. They came to me. Listen, all you need is that phone right there and a fucking microphone that plugs into it.

It's like they have these things like here. I use this one for a podcast that I did recently. It is not an endorsement. I'm just for anybody who's uh listening to this is not it's simple this microphone right here no endorsement i have to say the name of it but okay it's a blue right okay this microphone works on a cord that plugs directly into your phone you set that bitch up like that you stick this in bang stick that in your phone press press record.

It's that simple. And I've done actual podcasts that millions of people listen to with this thing that sits in my hand. I close that bitch up like that, put it back in this little bag, stick it in my laptop, take it anywhere you go. It works on USB. It takes no energy. It's super easy to do. And then you just have to upload that somewhere. And you could figure out how to edit simple stuff like that, audio stuff. You're not talking about

making records. You're talking about editing a simple audio file. You could figure out how to do that on your own. And I hear you there. I also realized that for me, doing a podcast meant it had to be, like the amount of effort I was going to put into it was going to be equal to what

kind of product I wanted. So I started. Yeah, but don't get confused about this. Right. No, I hear you there. Like this is just the effort is in your mind and in your thoughts and what you're trying to put out there. And that's you're really good at that is what I'm saying that you don't need some network.

You just need an account with like Libsyn or one of these podcast hosts. They upload it to iTunes. That's it. You're done. You know, people find out about it. They like it. it they get addicted to it they start downloading it more and more you know i mean you're really good at this so you to get connected to something like fox and have someone who's non-motivated sure well they came to me and it sounded like all right well we could probably monetize this in some way and it was this during the fighter in the kid days uh early early yeah yeah see they

thought that they were doing something and then now they've completely changed their tune they've decided to the only people that they're investing their time and now are people they have exclusive relationships with their their thoughts about the fighter and the kid were and brendan shared them with me some article that they were talking about him in where the fighter and the kid they feel like rode on the fox name and then became really popular and then made it. It's a delusional perspective. Sure.

I mean, they don't understand what happened. What happened is there's an entertaining show and two guys are really good, and then another entertaining show like mine has them on and then millions of people find out about it and then they go on other entertaining shows, like whether it is fucking Jason Ellis, or whether it's whatever they're doing.

Yeah. And then this buildup, the same thing that happened to Tom Segura and Christina Pazitsky and Bert Kreischer and all these popular podcasts. People find out about them, and they're good. It has nothing to do with Fox. Zero.

All they did was host it. At the end of the day, I mean, Fox isn't the one creating the content. Fox isn't of the day, I mean, Fox isn't the one creating the content. Fox isn't the one that has the ideas. Fox isn't the one cracking the jokes. Exactly. Telling the stories. Doesn't hurt being connected to Fox.

Of course not. It's definitely legitimate. Right. But it's not what they think it is. And I even said stuff like, hey, I want to have whatever I want on this podcast. No problem. I go, no, no.

I want to have whatever I want on this podcast. I want to talk about anything. No problem. I go, no, no. I want to have whatever I want on this pod. I want to talk about anything. No problem. This episode. Pussy farts with Josh Barnett. Pussy farts with Josh Barnett. If that's where we wanted to go with it. But one of the things I said to him, I go, hey, I want to talk about the fucking insane

Nazi occult division. I want to talk about all that crazy shit that they did. And I found this guy who's an expert. And we can talk about all the weird stuff. occult division i want to talk about all that crazy shit that they did and i found this guy who's an expert and we could talk about all the weird stuff and occult division yeah they had an occult division the nazis oh okay you said an extreme nazi no no no no i said the the extreme crazy shit of the nazi occult division how they would go around trying to find the spear of destiny or the ark of the covenant and all these they did a lot of shit like that right i mean that's why we have raiders of the lost ark and all the really cool movies who'd you have on

to talk about that i didn't because i go i'm gonna bring this guy on to talk about this stuff and they're like can't have nazis on i go i don't no no i'm not i don't want i'm not talking about nazis i'm not this isn't he isn't a nazi i'm talking about history like you couldn't have a history professor maybe wrote a book on Hitler come on and talk about Nazis? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So you don't need them. You don't need them.

You don't need them. Well, this was years ago. And so after that was like, all this stuff was adding up. And I'm like, fuck, man, this sucks. It's not even their fault, man. They're stuck in this old way. And they think this old, which works for television shows. Their old way works great for television shows.

They control the advertising. They secure the talent. I don't know how much was Fox itself. I don't know if the machine Fox was really paying that much attention. I think it was really just the main dude who was above, who was in charge of this shit, who was fucking it up and didn't want to put the effort in and didn't want to, you know. It got to the point where the last podcast I did, they didn't even put the video portion up.

It took them weeks to put. It's just like, wow, okay, I guess. So you don't have any contract with them? None. Do it on your own. Yeah, I could still. People still hit me up and go, hey, we'd love it if you do a podcast again. I'm just like, ah.

Just do it. Just do it. Dude, you're really good at this. It's easy for you. People are going to get mad at me. They're like, God damn it, Joe Rogan, you're always trying to get people to do it. Just do it. Dude, you're really good at this. It's easy for you. People are going to get mad at me. They're like, God damn it, Joe Rogan, you're always trying to get people to do podcasts. I would listen to your podcast. If you had a podcast, I'd listen to it.

That's all I'm saying to you. I have lots of things to talk about. You do. I do like to talk to a broad variety of people. I love the fact that you're bringing on guys like Jordan Peterson or Sam Harris or God Saad. You know, interesting guys to talk about interesting stuff. I'm trying to balance it out as much as possible. Or even the fact of getting into scraps with Crowder over here, which I'm like, oh, that's hilarious.

Yeah, I like Crowder. I mean, I think some of his ideas are silly. I see him as like an aggregator or aggravator, just kind of like Milo. Like Milo might say something interesting, but then he's couched all this stuff and trying to like create shit with people. That's part of how they get a lot of attention and popularity. But I think he puts out funny stuff too, man. He did some funny things where he's done a bunch of like funny sketches where he goes undercover as different people. He has this like communist French character that he goes undercover as.

Milo? No, no, no. Crowder does. Crowder does a lot of funny shit. People get mad at me for saying that he's funny. I think he's funny. I think he does some funny shit. He's done some really hilarious social justice warrior things where he showed up at some...

Well, he definitely dressed as a trans person for a while was trying to like push the boundaries of what like when can you decide that your transition how do you know whether or not someone has decided that they're transitioning or whether or not they're hoaxing you like who are you to say with that i'm not really trans like so he went to like one of those uh all women's gyms and said that he was trans and then they let him in at first and then after a while they're like what the fuck you know and they kicked him out i don't think he was an all women's gyms and said that he was trans and then they let him in at first and then after a while they're like what the fuck you know and they kicked him out i don't think he was an all women's gym in fact i think he just went to a gym that said that they accept trans people and then when he went in he wanted to shower in the women's room but he was like you know had like a fucking

five o'clock shadow right so the idea is like it's a sincerity of it is almost what that comes down to like well you're not sincere about being trans so is that what it comes it's the sincerity of it is almost what that comes down to. Like, well, you're not sincere about being trans. So is that what it comes? But he's pointing out how crazy these lines are and like, where are they? Whether or not you agree that people should be able to do whatever they want to, which I do. Me too. There is a real hysteria involved in this.

There's something very odd about these arbitrary lines where we decide we had a guy that we were watching a videotape yesterday who identifies as a six-year-old girl. Oh, the German guy. Is he German? He's definitely foreign, right? It was all in subtitles. He had a wife and kids and all that. And then he's like, I'm a six-year-old girl.

Like, what the fuck? But you have to include that. So then it's because then it gets to, well, can you be transracial? Can you be like Rachel Dolezal? Is that okay? Right. Can you okay right can you i don't know why not look everybody came from africa originally if you identify more with african americans than you do with like say polish americans why not but i don't well ben shapiro has argued that that's less preposterous than changing your gender and that like why can't you do that if you can change your gender like why where do you go

he's an interesting one because i like how hardcore and how like straight to the point he brings great arguments very smart but i can tell that he's that dude that just fucking he just he doesn't hardly get along probably with anyone he just got when he's decided well one of those one of those personalities is just not good at socializing in any way like he's very rigid just like yeah but very smart yeah he seems like a total little prick yeah but an all right dude in his own way i guess and you know what's funny is it's i i always i'll talk to people about you know left leftism versus rightism i'm like well you know it's pretty easy most of the time to look at the right when they're being idiotic because it's so preposterous like

you know theologically based arguments or you know if you're going to i mean that's really what it comes to stuff like that or or like um how they will take this whole stance of like no you just you get what you can get but if you fucking fuck up fuck you you know like these really extreme conservative arguments usually just are like, well, that's non-compassionate. Yeah, I know. But then you go to the left and it's like everything is couched in this like, oh, no, no, no, no. We're good. This is all for the good. Look at how nice we're being.

Like, well, you're just as fascist as this other guy. But you you couch it into under a different thing. but you couch it under a different thing. You do things like use postmodernist philosophical arguments to then take the word racism and redefine it so that it works for your benefit and not others. And then it only works against black people. It doesn't work against white people. You can say whatever you want against white people.

Yeah, people get weird with their arguments, and it ultimately becomes about control. Sure, of course, and it's creating power. It's creating power for a person to, to affect that against someone else is in creating, or it's also creating moral high ground. Yeah. So you can feel as if you're in the right to say this or that.

And because you are supported by all these other people around you. Yeah. I try to balance. I'm trying to balance it out. I should say, but people get mad at me when I have too many right wing people on in a row. They start thinking, I've been accused of being like Fox news. I'm like, I try to balance, I'm trying to balance it out, I should say, but people get mad at me when I have too many right-wing people on in a row. They start thinking, I've been accused of being like Fox News. I'm like, come on, man, I have lefties on all the

time. You're just not paying attention. Whether it's Julie Kedzie or Abby Martin or, what is it, Pete Holmes is a super lefty. Judd Apatow's a super lefty. He was on last week. I try to have as many lefties on as possible, but they don't get mad at that. They only get mad when I have like super righties on.

When I have super righties on, then they're like, oh, your show's like Fox News. Well, culturally, you know, it's just like, well, we can, this, this, this argument we'll listen to, but not this one. Of course. But at the end of the day, what really sucks is that when it came to, you know, in such a, I had gotten so into politics because of my living situation. As I'm looking at all this stuff, trying to understand the currents of what's going on, I'd find I'd have to go read the most crazy leftist stuff,

and then I'd have to go find some gnarly alt-right garbage and have to go there and read all these preposterous arguments racist shitty arguments on both sides just ridiculous stuff to them because even amongst some crazy racist or some some crazy you know communist either way there's going to be some truth there that they figure is useful to their argument that may be different from the other right but it still doesn't change it from being true it's like uh uh you can't the truth it still doesn't change it from being true. It's like, uh, uh, you can't, the truth doesn't,

doesn't change from place to place. You can't, you can't change it anymore. And you can salt, salt, uh, said by Cormac McCarthy. And it's like,

well, I have to now go outside of this because I can't find any one news source. It's going to be completely honest with me. So then I have to look at all these places and then try to piece this whole story together based on what truth I can find. And honestly, it got to be so tiring and reading just crazy shit on each side and having to, it's just like, well, some of this stuff is just so fucking fucked up. And it's not like I needed a trigger warning or something like that, but it's just, it just gets tiring didn't also think like people coming up with like um racial iq things trying to create some some idea there and i'm like oh fuck man this is people believe this

it's like trying to to navigate flat earth shit and stuff like that and go come on i i hear it the first time i read it i'm like okay yeah whatever you just don't get it but then when I see that there's even some small amount of traction, it's just fucking disappointing. It's very disappointing. Yeah. Well, it's too easy to get by today. And there's a lot of dummies that have gotten by. That's right. That's one of my arguments is that this is the softest, easiest fucking way of living we've ever had. Now, I understand there are difficulties, but our difficult, even our poor are still more wealthy than like the 90% of the world or something like that. It's crazy. Yeah.

If you make more than $34,000 a year, you are in the top 1% of the world. Yeah. And we don't see it that way. No. You know, we're too busy thinking about what we don't have or what we should have or how we deserve more than this person or that person or how, you know. Or how we deserve more than this person or that person or how, you know, if you want to argue about the difficulty it is to buy a home nowadays, I'm totally willing to listen. If you want to argue about the shady aspects of banks, I'm there with you. You know what I mean? trying to cut me down into some specific class and minimal to minimize me and then devalue my opinion or who I am. It's just like, I'm not going to, I understand the, the biological potential

for tribalism and the fear of the thing that is the unknown being maybe too much of a risk. So if you look at wild animals, they don't really get into fights all that much if they can help it because the risk of being injured, maimed or dead potentially is just too much. So most of the time they get in their little scraps and they disperse, right? And if you're a full-on alpha, you normally don't get into any fucking fights whatsoever. It's the beta is always trying to like peck their way up and maybe eventually find an alpha that they might perceive having a weakness. But once they finally get to that point that they're going to really fucking full-on fight it means everything because everything is at risk well you know you look at some cave people it's probably the same way the

first time you know uh one group sees someone that looks completely different from them they're like oh what the fuck is that can i risk it is it going to destroy my community is it going to be damaging to you know it's like caveman shit because they don't understand until somebody creates an understanding. So, but it's very hard for people to accept other people's ideas. Of course, your ideas are different. And then their ideas, you want their ideas to align with yours. And in the case where we're talking about with a lot of these people, they're trying to enforce their ideas on other people. You will now obey and go along with my standards of behavior and thought it's insecurity and it's fear yeah and but to me i'm like okay i can understand that on that base

element but we have the ability to overcome that to be greater than that to be better than that to not to not sit there and and value people on all these um surface level shit you know, I mean, you can, you can stereotype things all you want and be like, oh, well, this looks like a duck and quacks like a duck. And this looks like a goose and honks like whatever, fine. But if you try to continue to keep people in these places, you're, you're diminishing who they are. You're also, you're creating this element of prejudice. You're creating those barriers for that to not, for that interaction to not happen. You're the one that's helping create that tribalistic element. And so as you continue to whittle these people down to more and more groups, but, you know, with the, now when you couch that in with this neo-Marxist elements, it's like, well, now you need the more tinier,

the group you get, the more you get to be oppressed, the more you're a victim of something. And so, yeah. And there's a lot of, it's a good market share and being a victim. We got to get out of here,

man. I got to end this Josh Barnett. So what's the future right now? No fights scheduled. No fights. I have to, uh, actually I'm still dealing with my usada stuff

uh we have to my understanding what my management's saying is that usada to completely satisfy with understanding that uh that the supplement that i took was tainted and they even went out and after they tested the one that i gave them they went out and bought a whole brand new bottle unopened tested that one again laced them, they went out and bought a whole brand new bottle, unopened, tested that one. Again, laced with the same shit. And they had already, you know, they had tested me, not even that much in between. Or they had tested me in between, or there was barely any time in between tests anyways. So my manager's telling me that the guy at the lab is going, well, this is such a negligible amount that it looks like you've been, whatever you took was tainted in the first place.

So, cause there's no reason why a guy your size would even bother to have such a negligible amount of whatever the shit is in your system. And I'm like, especially since to explain that between the last test and this test, there's, you would have, it would be such a small amount that there's no way that you were on something and you cycled off. Exactly. Okay. It didn't make any sense.

So how long have they had you suspended till? I don't know. The thing is, is that we've gone through, I've spent like two grand having supplements tested because I would keep bits of everything that I would take just in case and keep them around. Jesus Christ. Well, it's, you know, and I, this was a brand I'd taken before. This was a supplement that had been an ingredient and other stuff that I've never had a problem

with. You know, I always would check everything against that global drove thing. I would do all their steps about cross-reference this, that, and the other always. Okay. You know, making sure that I'm always on, uh, towing or not towing the line, but, uh, being up upfront on this and doing what they said to and then you know all right so i got some some bullshit and something i didn't expect so all right we go we test it they go and a they they back their findings up

with a completely brand new bottle and batch that matches the one that i still haven't acted on that and now i'm still waiting but i'm still suspended suspended, but I don't understand what more could I do. Right. You know what I mean? Right. All right, dude. Josh L. Barnett on Twitter. And Instagram.

And Instagram. Thanks, brother. This was fun. I love being here. You're going to do another podcast. You're going to start at the War Machine Chronicles. War Machine? Coming soon.

I mean, War Machine. Did I say that? I didn't Chronicles. War Machine? Coming soon. I mean, War Machine. Did I say that? I didn't mean that. War Master. War Master. It's just War and M. They just flow together so well. Fucked up the end of the podcast, ladies and gentlemen.

Called me War Machine. What a major bummer. War Master. Well, you've had a couple other nicknames, haven't you? Baby Face Assassin. What was the other one? Philadelphia Jailbird. Josh Barnettett ladies and gentlemen

War Machine What a faux pas That's fucking shit