The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #101 with Kevin Holland & Travis Lutter

Episode Date: February 24, 2021

Joe is joined by Kevin Holland, a mixed martial artist competing in the UFC middleweight division and his head coach, Travis Lutter, retired mixed martial artist who won The Ultimate Fighter 4.

Okay, we're rolling. Kevin, what's up? What's up, Joe? Is that your phone? Yep, I'm not sure. Travis Luter. Sorry. So, first of all, welcome.

Thanks for doing this. Appreciate it. No, thank you you and it's good to see you again man i haven't seen you in forever yeah man it's been it's been a few try to keep this like sorry i got a fist from your face fist from my face yeah we were talking right before about uh injuries you know it's like i always like to talk to guys who've been doing jujitsu a long time because they always have this laundry list of injuries and you know you were talking about neck fusions and disc issues and you know yeah i mean uh you know i'm just like everybody else we get you know everybody gets injured we all get old uh it just takes time and but you know my

opinion is if i'm going to teach jiu-jitsu i i have to stay doing the art i think that um when people just teach and they don't train they they you know it's like it's a perishable yes you know it's like your skills are perishable and then it's also your thoughts it's like yeah you know it's like oh well if we just that's when you start seeing bullshit jiu-jitsu yeah and so it's like if i'm gonna teach i have to train and it's like you know i love to teach, I have to train. And it's like, you know, I love training. I'd much prefer to, you know, I wish I could still fight, but I can't. So it's like I, but I do train. And it's like, and, you know, I have to.

Did you notice a difference in improvement of your skills when you start teaching? Yeah, for sure. I think that teaching definitely, you know, helps you improve because I, the way that I think about it is that when you're teaching, you have to think about how he's looking at a problem. So you show him a move and then you come back and he comes back with a question and it might be in a way that you've never thought about it before. So then you've got to break down how to answer that question for them so that it makes sense to on their level at their and their wavelength you know so it's like that helps me because now i understand the position even

essentially better yeah i could do this position before but now it's like i've answered so many different questions over the years uh you know that it really really improves your jujitsu kevin when you started training did you start right away with with travis or did you start somewhere else like jiu-jitsu yeah yeah i never did jiu-jitsu with anybody else but travis did you do martial arts before yeah i was a kung fu black belt when i got there oh that's right because you call yourself a kung fu fighter when you enter into the octagon everybody's kung fu fighting what kind of kung fu was it uh so it was actually a mix it was a mix between uh hawaiian kempo no my bad american kempo and uh kung fu sansu so kung fu sansu was originated in the states from jimmy h wu bringing it over and then kempo just has a thousand different stories so couldn't

really keep up with that so i was always more fascinated with the kung fu, sansu aspect of it. So I actually went to Bill Lasseter's studio out in Rancho Cucamonga, California and took a couple classes there. So I was just mainly focused on the kung fu aspect of it. Sansu was always funner than the forms that we did for Kenpo. I'm trying to remember what sansu is. What's the fundamental difference between sansu

and other kinds of kung fu? So probably the other differences, I probably couldn't tell you you but it's more uh i guess you could say it's more more common you know and so it's more like it's more brutal you know we're not doing a bunch of pretty things tai chi yeah yeah nothing wrong with tai chi but we're not doing a bunch of breathing techniques and stuff like that it's more so like uh bash you over the head with this stick bash you over the head with my fist you know just it's a mean kung fu style you know and it worked well for me especially in high school it was my type of thing yeah yeah you don't see a lot of there's a lot of kung fu techniques that i think probably would work in the octagon like here's one that you see now that you didn't used to see before people thought was kind of bullshit is that oblique kick yeah like the oblique kick is super legit yeah especially to the legs but

do you ever see lorenz larkin use it he did it to me dude yeah he sends it to the leg and then he'll send it to like the body yeah it's it's like it it throws you back it's really vicious he did it to neil magny and i was God damn, that's like a fucking sidekick. Like, the way he throws it. And he throws it pretty quick, too. Yeah. Yeah. And it's kind of hard to see it coming, too,

because it's not really telegraphed. You don't know if he's doing push kick. He's coming with the... Right. You don't know if he's going to question work. It's a sexy kick. It's legit. Yeah.

And it wasn't around for a long time. I think... I want to say that the wink winkle john's influence yeah it was like john jones like those guys were like one of the first guys to start throwing that kick hard to the legs yeah john was uh stepping on the legs and keeping good distance with it you know i never really seen john throw it to the body you know it's just lorenzo is really the only person i've ever really seen throw it to the body like that and i guess you could say it's kind of an oblique kick in muay thai sometimes when they kind of try and fake the roundhouse and

come with the push kick instead but you know a bleak kick straight up to the body and lorenz larkison but got it started for sure for sure yeah i never even practiced it until i saw him do it to the body and then i went and did it on the bag because i was like oh shit you can get a lot of pop out of that yeah you know i never thought anybody would be throwing it to, there it is. That's how he does it. Yeah. He's done that same thing to me. It sucks.

Yeah, he's a super underrated guy. Yeah. He's tough. Yeah, it's interesting now. He's over at Bellator, and there's a lot of, like, real talent at Bellator now. It's getting close. Like, I always wondered, like, when's it going to be at Bellator, and there's a lot of real talent at Bellator now. It's getting close. I always wondered, when's it going to be where Bellator is essentially equal to the UFC? How long is it going to take?

Never. It's not. I agree. I don't think it will happen. You say that. What if Bellator just backs out? Beep, beep, beep. That big brakes truck.

And like, Kevin, look what we got here. Never. Stacks and stacks of gold nah no never nah no nah i'm back in the day i used to want to go to billetour because they didn't have usada and so i was like i could smoke weed there but now you can smoke weed yeah so ufc is way better yeah well i think i think it's undeniable the talent level in the ufc is higher but i think it's also undeniable that there's guys like Douglas Lima, like Patricio Pitbull.

There's super high-level guys. Mousasi. Yeah. There's Vadim. There's, like, real legit world-class fighters over there right now. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I agree. I mean, you know, yeah.

You know, the person that gives them the biggest argument, I guess, is, say, Michael Chandler coming over doing what he did, you know? I mean, that's, yeah. The person that gives them the biggest argument, I guess you'd say Michael Chandler, coming over doing what he did. I mean, that's a great example, right? Yeah. Very, very good example. But you're not. There's great basketball players out there that never make it to the NBA. You know what I mean?

There's people on the streets that can do fantastic things that never make it to the greatest spot ever know what I mean? There's people on the streets that can do fantastic things that never make it to the greatest spot ever. The UFC is the greatest spot ever for a reason. You know, it's like you're probably going to perform differently than you would in Bellator than you would in the UFC. My Bellator debut versus my UFC debut, you know, I finished that guy, what, first round, you know, triangle choke, rolling around like it wasn't nothing,

doing things that I could have did, you know, to any local level guy. But I couldn't do that in the ufc i guess you could say like you said higher level competition all the way around so i just don't feel like bellator adds up well i don't i don't think it's as deep no not as deep you got like a couple super legit guys yeah whereas like like look at the ufc's 155 pound division like jesus christ it's a shark tank it is filled with savages it is pride had the best chance you know it's like you know it's like there was a time where pride was you know the talent level i think in pride was actually better than what was in the ufc at the at the same time that you know mid-2000s uh you know right before they collapsed but the the you know the ufc being first gives them definitely a heads up you know it up. It's kind of like the difference between Coca-Cola and Pepsi.

Pepsi's always trying to play catch-up. I feel like that's kind of what everybody's doing with the UFC. UFC has probably a better game plan, business plan, than some of these other organizations. Then they've got a huge bankroll, too. Yeah, it also has the name, right? Right. It's the UFC. So if someone comes along with the X with the xfl like okay but you want to play in the nfl right yeah exactly you want to be the ufc champion plus like i wonder what like the highest like the best

person in bellator like as far as fan wise and everything like that how many followers do they have you know versus the hottest guy in the ufc well let's think about it who do you think is like the most popular guy in bellator we could find that out right now well i would guess it's the what's his name no i think page is pretty up but lima knocked him out what's his name who's the heavyweight and the and the ryan bader yeah ryan bader's probably up there isn't he ex ufc guy he's he's out of there he doesn't even count he just got ko yeah'd. Yeah. He got his cross. I knew that. Yeah. But that was at light heavyweight. He's still the heavyweight champion.

Yeah, he's still the heavyweight champion. Yeah, but I mean, if the light heavyweight knocked him out, he probably can knock him out at heavyweight, too. That dude's a beast, that rushing dude. Oh, yeah. He's a fucking beast. Yeah. And batters, you know, how many fights has he had? He's been around for a long time.

He's been around a long time. A long time. Yeah, a long time. Time's a bitch. It gets everybody. Yes. Yeah. There's no way around it.

You know, one of the things I was going to say, John John Machado doesn't have any injuries. No, John looks good. It's crazy. I asked him. He had like a little problem with his knee. He got a little meniscus tear, but he got some cortisone shot in it, and he's fine.

No back problems, no nothing. The difference with him is that there's somebody that trained all the time. And he's always in really, really good shape. It's like back when he was winning Abu Dhabi and stuff like that, I remember talking to him. It's like he's going in there and he's just trying to kill his cardio, killing his cardio, killing his cardio. It's like he submitted his way through ADCC in, what was it, 1999?

Yeah, it was it, 1999? And then in 2000, he lost in the finals to Henzo on decision. And then he lost to Matt Serra. But that was a weird one. That was a weird one.

So that was the first match of the tournament and Matt went out there and pulled guard on him. Like jump guard. And then they fought like 90 minutes. So in the first match of the tournament. And Matt went out there and pulled guard on him, right? Like jump guard. And then they fought like 90. So in the first five minutes back then, and I don't know what the rules are in ADCC now, is you could pull guard. Right, you didn't lose any points.

Yeah, you didn't lose any points that year. And then, so then, but then after the five minutes, if you pull guard. So they ended up on their feet with like 20 seconds left. And Janjak pulled guard. So they ended up on their feet with like 20 seconds left and Janjak pulled guard. And that's how Matt won. It was a 0-0 match until Janjak pulled guard with that 20 seconds left, and he didn't have time to do anything else for that.

Yeah, there's a lot of wacky rules. They're crazy. I don't love the ADCC rules. No, I don't either. It makes it really, really boring to watch. I think what's really interesting with what's going on with a lot of these guys that are trying, cc rules you know it's like no i don't either no it makes it really really boring to watch i think what's really interesting with what's going on with like uh a lot of these guys that are trying like the gordon ryan situation where he's trying to have these no time limit matches with people

like submission only right it's boring until he catches them because his idea is like listen all i'm trying to do is submit you yeah you're just trying to beat me on points so let's just have a no time limit thing and just see who can submit who, and I'm betting I can submit you. It's just going to take more time. I would do that. Kevin would be a beast at it. I'd do that.

That'd be a good style. I mean, it seems like that's what jiu-jitsu really is, right? Jiu-jitsu is not who can submit each other over five minutes or who can get on top or who can get side control. Those are great ways of finding who's got positional advantages and who you know who won these scrambles and exchanges that's great but ultimately jiu-jitsu is about submission the problem with it is a tournament format and stuff like that yeah you can't do it yeah it's just takes too much time it's like you know the the gracies did the machados versus gracacies back in the 99, 2000, something like that.

So it's like all the Machados. It's like I flew from Texas to California, and we competed at the Gracie Academy. And that was fun, but the problem was you had some matches that were over an hour long. And then it's like the ultimate submission showdown. over an hour long and it's like and then it's like and then the ultimate submission showdown it's like the ultimate submission showdown that uh that horian put on uh you know and had his two sons on opposite sides of the bracket so they could meet in the finals and stuff like that and uh you know like uh his uh haran gracie went against uh jeff munson and it was like an hour and 15 minute match you know it's like's like, and, and then Haran

ended up winning on points. Uh, and then, and then he fought me in the next round, you know, it's like, and that's, you know, it's like, uh, and then, uh, David Avalon beat, beat the other son on the other side. And, you know, so it was just, you know, it's the problem with those tournaments is, is that it's like, you know, um, you know, the, he had it set up so that the first person, I think to 12 points one. And it's like, so it's like had it set up so that the first person, I think, to 12 points won. And it's like, so it's like the match would end with. So it's like, and it was weird because it was like a takedown was worth one. Passing the guard was worth one.

Amount was worth four. And taking the back was worth four. And that was the only points. There was no reversal points. There was no anything like that but if you held guard for three minutes i think for three minutes then they would give you a point and then reverse the position and so jeff monson versus haran gracie uh um since there was a weight difference they gave haran two points to start with and then they just held guard for three minutes that's all they do and it's like and then

they'd switch and then jeff would get in, you know, start in his guard, and he'd sit up, single leg him, and he'd get his point. And this went over and over and over. And so it's like he ended up winning by two points. It was 10 to 12, first person to 12, and he won. So it's like, you know, but it made it not as fun to watch. I think you'd have to do, I think what's going on right now with these streaming matches on the internet is kind of the way to go with guys like the Donaher Death Squad type dudes.

Just do no time limit. Because if it's streaming, same thing as anything you want to do on YouTube or a podcast or whatever. You don't have a specific time that you have to do it in. Yeah, that's true. You could definitely do that. You know, it's like, you know, I personally, personally you know i like ibjjf rules uh they're not perfect uh you know but i prefer those over a lot of the different rule systems are out there i liked that the what the um horian set up you know for the ultimate submission showdown i thought

that that was a good set of rules for me i liked it um how do you feel about the ebi rules i don't love the ebi rules it's like i think i think uh i think eddie got high as hell whoa he got high as hell and and decided hey i got a great idea what we'll do is if if we if this happens then we're gonna do this and it's like um they're okay it's like it worked out for me that's because for for his style it's perfect it's like him and the ebi is really really hard to beat kevin because it's like it worked out for me that's because for for his style it's perfect it's like him and ibi it's really really hard to beat kevin because it's like you're not going to score on him he's going to it's going to go over time and then you know kevin stand out of bounds i love that yeah it's like you know kevin kevin likes it a lot so for me not so much it's just

interesting to see like situations where maybe the person in a regular match never would get to your back. But now they're starting on your back with their hands locked and the seatbelt. Yeah. I mean, for Kevin, that's great. You know, it's like for older folk, probably not as good. For me, I don't know. Stay away from my back. I don't want you back there.

So, Kevin, how long have you been training with Travis? 11 years. 11 years. Yeah. It's you back there. So, Kevin, how long have you been training with Travis? 11 years. Yeah. 11 years. Yeah, it's been a while. It's been a long time. And when did you decide you wanted to fight MMA? I wanted to do kickboxing when I got there.

I was really a big fan of Kevin Ross. And then I got there, and Travis was like, as difficult as striking is, jiu-jitsu is more complex. And then he went like this. And I was like, all right, I bet. I was like, I'm as striking is, jujitsu is more complex. And then he went like this. And I was like, all right, I bet. I was like, I'm going to give it a shot.

And then I cried the first day after practice. Did you? Yeah, I swear I did. I went home and I cried. I didn't even make it home. I got in the car and I cried. My mom was like,

what's wrong? And I was like, my black belt and these white belts are fucking me up. And so, then the next day I was like, all right, cool. I started fucking some white belts up.

Then there were some blue belts tapping me out, so then I cried again. And then so. How old were you at the time? I was 18 years old, crying like a little girl. 17, 18. I was 17. Yeah, I was 17. And then I was like, and then all of a sudden, you know,

I started tapping people out, and I was like, oh, this is shit. I was like, I can do this, you know. When Kevin came to the gym, you know, it like jiu-jitsu is a great equalizer. It's like nobody is good when they first join. Kevin was the exception. It's like Kevin comes in. He has a huge pain in the ass the first day. It's like he could throw his body, and he'd do stuff,

and you'd do stuff to him once, and then you couldn't do it to him again. It's like where everybody's coming up to me going hey where where'd he train before and i'm like you know i he says he didn't you know it's like well i don't believe him you know it's like everybody's everybody's like nobody believed him and it's like and then it's like over time we figured out he was telling the truth it's like yeah he'd done a little bit in the kung fu but nothing to really he's just really really talented and it's just you know it's like there's not a lot of guys that you roll with where it's like you know that that can do what kevin can do you know it's it's a this is a different human you know it's like i've trained with randy i've trained with gsp i've trained with you know a whole bunch of different guys that are

really really good kevin's different you know it's like this is a different animal wow know, it's like, this is a different animal. Wow. It's like, when I say that, you know, Kevin's, you know, it's like, Kevin's so much different, it's not fair. It's like, you know, he's, you know, it's like, this is the most talented guy that I've ever trained with by far. Wow. You know? How's that feel? Or went against.

How's that feel? It's got to feel pretty good. I'm like his son, so he just makes me feel good. No, no, no. It's not true. It's like, I'm not making him feel good. This is something that I firmly have believed. And it like and the whole thing is is kevin starting to believe it now you know it's like it's it's you know it's like he's starting to say okay maybe

i'm a little bit different you know because it's like you know what he can do is just totally different you know it's like when we when we were at the ultimate fighter house and it's like we went outside and we were doing sprints you know the team was doing sprints. GSP is doing with them. He's mid-pack. It's like Pete Spratt is freaking... He'd give us a 10-yard head start and beat us by 10 yards in a 60-yard race. It was just crazy. It's like, I don't know how fast he was.

GSP's mid-pack. It's like he was fast but nothing crazy. This is somebody who, in my opinion, it's like you have to get into like the music school, Gerard Music School in New York. What's it called? Juilliard. Juilliard.

Juilliard. You know, they have a minimum level of requirements to get into it and minimum level of talent. Do you have this much talent to get into here? And then after that, then it's about who wants to train the hardest to become the, it becomes first seat. So it's like, you know, so it's like, you know, if you make the requirements, I would have never made the requirements to get into someplace like that. But it's like, you can become the best, you know, just with practice time. Because it's like, it's a direct relation to who's the best is based on how much time you're willing to put in there.

So like a GSP, I've never saw anybody train like him. It was crazy the way that he would train. In what way? What's that? In what way? You know, we'd show up. You know, it's like so my team, we had the first workout. The other team had the second workout.

But we'd get there, and almost at least five days a week, GSP is already there. He's just finishing his workout. And then he's going to train with us. And then he's going to train with the next team. And then he had another workout scheduled for immediately after that. You know, so it's like, you know, it's like this is inhuman that he, you know, it's like whatever we were going to do, GSP was going to do. Because we didn't really have coaches and stuff like that. But, you know, he's doing, you know, so much workload.

You know, it's like just crazy, crazy, crazy. So it's like, you know, he's arguably one of the most, you know, one of the best all time with GSP. And the talent level, though, nothing compared to Kevin. It's different. You know, it's like I rolled with him. I rolled with Randy. I rolled with, you know, all these guys.

You know, I've done striking with them. I don't like to work out, though. And that's the crazy thing. How often do you work out, though? I work out a lot more now than I used to. But, you know, it's like when I first joined the gym, I didn't. You know, it's like I'd go roll because rolling was fun. And if you said we had some sparring, I'd go spar becausearring was fun if we said we had wrestling i wouldn't show up because wrestling

sucks you know it's like if the workout's hard i don't want to do it you know if it's something that i can control i'm completely down for it you know it's like strength and conditioning it's like i love should because some days i can get away with some things you know i offer him some free food and he's like all right come on we'll take off five minutes let's go you know what i mean but it's like i hate hard workouts yeah it's like all those hard workouts and people are like yeah i love i live for that i'm like you're tripping bro what are you smoking i'm smoking weed i want to chill that's funny because you you seem to be having fun inside the octagon it's one of the interesting things about watching you fight you you have you're

having fun in there it's very obvious so like you're having fun and training as well yeah and you're getting better while you're having fun of course you're gonna get a lot of cardio out of just training and training hard and doing all this fun stuff yeah but you don't like to do the supplemental stuff no i like this up so swimming works out because we have a heated pool and i love to swim so i'll go in the heated pool yeah i'll stay there all day you know i don't have a problem with that but if the pool is not warm i'm not going in there you know and if the workout's hard i might do it on monday but then tuesday wednesday come around i'm gonna have an excuse to why i can't make it to the gym do you wonder if you're gonna reach your full potential

with this mindset no i don't really care. You don't care? No. That's not true. That's not true. Travis wants me to reach my full potential. Sometimes I do care, but most of the times I don't. He does care.

It's like the whole thing is Kevin's going to say that he's not going to care, and maybe it's because subconsciously he's setting himself so that it's like, I don't want to say that i want to do this i i don't if i say that i care then i i have to own it and i have to go after it and stuff yeah but no he cares you know it's like too much work that's not true he's out there working his ass off it's like he's he's training he trained crazy hard yesterday i'm glad you're here right now yeah you're balancing this out because i know he's kind of finagling us here yeah no kevin works his ass a little bit it's like no come on and i've seen your fights there's no way

you could be that good and not work out hard and he you know it's like kevin's in there you know it's like does he want to do it no it's like but it's like i said how many rounds and he goes no let's do four so he's he was uh he wanted to do more you You know, it's like, okay, we're going to do five. And it's like he doesn't like it. He might not like it, but he'll do it. You know, it's like he's over there working with Suge. You know, it's like, and the whole thing is. Suge is your strength and conditioning guy?

Yeah. And hands. And hands as well. And hands. Yeah, he does a good job. And rolls good blunts. Makes good spreads. He's a great guy.

We've got to cut down on the blunts, but other than that, we're good. And the spread, yeah, the spread's awesome. good spreads he's got to cut down on the blunts but other than that we're good and uh yeah the spread yeah the spread's awesome uh but no he's he's willing to work you know it's like he he's you know he's bullshitting you a little bit it's like it's it's like kevin kevin kevin's kevin's in there doing the hard work and it's like any and he's as he's starting to believe more you know it's like he's uh you know he's he's for sure you know okay yeah let's do this let's do this let's go to work wrestling starting to be fun wrestling starting to be fun you know it's like you're getting better better at it uh yeah i'm getting

better at it for sure kevin has never shown what he can do when he's in the octagon it's like you know kevin is yeah some i'll pretend like kevin's not here right now. It's like Kevin subconsciously is worried about getting tired. And so he'll let people take him down because it's like he had success in the minor leagues and stuff like that. He'd submit people off of his back, and it's like he won't always fight the takedown. And then after Thiago, he's like, okay, that sucks. I don't want to be on the bottom again. So then he'll wrestle more,

but it's like when it's starting to kick in, it's like, okay, I have to be on top. But it's like in the room, you can't take him down. You know, it's like we got really, really good wrestlers that are, you know, that, yeah, we get him down, but we have to do it. You know, it's like, okay, this guy's going for it until he gets tired. And then we jerk him out and we got another wrestler that's coming in on him as soon as they're you know so we might use three guys in a five-minute round just trying to tire him out coaching him don't tell people this then brunson's not going to take

the fight i know brunson's going to be scared brunson's going to take the fight oh for sure he's going to take that fight yeah he's a veteran yeah a veteran no no like the same record almost yeah you're a veteran too yeah you're a veteran no i'm 28 listen but you're i'm not saying you're a veteran as in it's a positive thing you have a lot of good experience oh yeah that's what i'm saying and derrick derrick has a ton of world class experience yeah he's been in there with some some you know he's been knocked out by all the good guys you know so it's it's it's amazing to find out if i'm a good guy or not you know you knock them out and you're a good guy yeah it's pretty cool um coming off the jacare fight that was one of the craziest k.o's i think i've ever seen i knew i hadn't watched the

fight again a couple days ago because i knew that i was going to see you again i wanted to watch it one more time the you heard him before the big punch yeah You heard him with another punch before that. And they showed it in the replay. They showed the big punch that really sent him back staggering off the back. But you had rocked him with a punch off your back just before that. Hammer fist. Was it hammer fist? Yeah. Those hammer fists off the back. I don't know why.

It's like those hammer fists when you're on your back, they hurt. You know, like you generate good power. Look at that. Yeah, that for sure. But even before that, if you go back but look at that yeah that for sure but even before that if you go back before this there's a the hammer fist for sure stunned him but even before the hammer fist you hit him with one punch from that's it right there right there right there exactly like now you see him how he's covering and then you hit him with a hammer fist the hammer has definitely hurt him oh he sees real wobbly but i think it was really that first punch

that so sent him when i did my research on this when i was just thinking about it and i was thinking about it over and over again like what the hell could possibly make this happen right and it's like two things one if you look at my if you look at my right leg right there he holds that leg for dear life right he holds that leg like that leg makes a difference in the fight right and i guess it does then he looks at it look how he looks at that leg as dear life, right? He holds that leg like that leg makes a difference in the fight, right? And I guess it does. Then he looks at it. Look how he looks at that leg as it whips around.

Pow! And he gets smacked, right? So he's looking at the leg almost like the leg is going to kick him. And so if you're thinking about the leg, you're not looking at the punch. So the punch is going to hurt a little bit more. Yeah. And then everybody thinks I was on my back, but I was actually on one hand when I did it. You know?

So it's kind of like capoeira. You know what I mean? Yeah. You play the video game and the guy, Eddie, he's doing all that dancing and stuff like that and he's on one hand doing everything it's just kind of like capoeira if you think about it do you ever see randy versus ensign ensign in u.s yeah when they fought in japan ensign was throwing these nasty leg kicks off of his back yeah off of his back he was kind of like sideways on his back and he was just cracking them with these nasty leg kicks.

I was like, whoa, this is generating a lot of power from that position. I want to see this. Yeah, and not like a straight leg kick, you know, like attacking the knees, just chopping at the legs. Like a roundhouse? Yeah, yeah, yeah, off of his back. And then he caught Randy in an armbar. Ensign was an interesting guy. I read that he was playing racquetball, and a guy approached him about training.

Is that Egan or Ensign? Maybe it was Egan. Maybe it was Egan. So Randy's coming at him, and he's, look at this. He's hitting him with these nasty kicks off of his back. You see how he's doing that? Like he scoots forward, and he was generating a lot of power off of his back.

And Randy just wanted to stay above him. Look, he's attacking with these leg kicks. He's riding a calf right there. Yeah, they had good power to him. I remember this was a big win for him because, you know. Probably his biggest win ever. Yeah, I would say so, right? I think if they would have fought, you know fought 100 times, Randy wins 99 of those.

Well, how can you say that when Ensign won the one time they fought? Because that's what I think. Because you're a Randy fan. But when he fought Royce Alger, that was a giant win too because Royce Alger was coming over. He was an elite wrestler, and everybody was like, this is what's going to win in the UFC. These big, powerful wrestlers are going to win in the ufc these big powerful

wrestlers going to take you down and ground and pound you and ensign caught him in an armbar and broke his arm yeah yeah good jiu-jitsu yeah you know he got uh ibjjf and him or a little bit of a squabble yeah what is going on with that like uh you know well he was an inactive he was active he had never done his paperwork you know it's it's like, is that bullshit? Yeah, it's a little bit bullshit. But he was also inactive. And from what I hear, he wasn't really training. You know, it's like, and it's like the way that rankings work is that, you know, it's like in order for me to be ranked up after Black Belt, I have to be training. It's like, or, you know, it stagnates.

And I don't think that that's the actual real issue with the IBJJF is that he just didn't do his paperwork a long time ago. John Jock had that problem. It's like when they first, years ago, it's like he couldn't. If I remember right, they gave him like two stripes on his black belt. And this is just a couple years ago. And then Hickson heard about it and ranked him up to, I think, Coral Belt. And it was kind of a big deal. It's cool.

Coral's that black and red? That black and red belt. Yeah. So Hickson did that. And it's like, you know, it's kind of a fuck you to – I can say fuck you, right? Yes. Cool. It's – that, you know, to the IBJJF, I think, you know, it's like a little family squabble.

Yeah. The whole ranking thing is weird, right? Because some guys can just decide that they're forming their own system. And then, you know, like. At the end of the day, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, this goes back to samurai times. And there was no belts. You know, it's like, and then they started putting in i think the original belts were it's white and uh white black blue uh and like even in brazilian jiu-jitsu it's like when it was given to the you know to the gracies back in the day i think that was the the rank um and uh hoist it explained it to me because it's like so the the white belt was the beginner a black belt

was the the you know but you know you'd be, you achieve the rank of black belt, you're the expert. And then the blue belt was the teacher. And so Elio, right before he died, you know, the last few years, would train in a really, really dark blue belt. And it's like, you know, and it's like, so he'd go put the black belt on or the red belt on for the pitchers and stuff like that. But when he was teaching, he would wear a blue belt. And now Hoist, when he does his seminars, if you look really, really closely at his belt, it's blue. Really? Yeah, it's not black.

He's doing that to honor his dad and stuff like that. That's really interesting. People love belts, though. They love finding out that you've passed, you've reached the next level. It gives you a nice boost, you feel good. Yeah, it's a perishable skill. It's like everything's perishable. It's like if you don't go shoot, that skill's going to go away.

If I don't train jiu-jitsu, that skill's going to go away. And it's striking, whatever it is. You don't drive your car, you're not going to do as well with it. It's like if you're a race car driver you got to practice yeah it's like yeah and so yeah in that ways you know it's like do i start over you know i haven't trained for five years ten years right you know should i start over do i still wear my belt i achieved it at one time it's complicated you know yeah it is complicated right yeah but getting a black belt from travis luther that's a big fucking deal yeah it takes a long time that's a big fucking deal. Yeah, it takes a long time. That's a big fucking deal.

That's legit. It takes half a lifetime. You know, you can do it. It just takes half a lifetime. Do you have a favorite thing that you like to train in? Yeah, the gi. You like the gi? Yeah, as long as we're in the gi, I'm happy.

I love the gi. Especially a new gi. You know, I love the gi especially a new gi you know i love the gi and it sucks because i just bought like five new gis and i haven't been able to train the gis since buying five new gis because you're training for mma well no it's just i've been at every all my classes seem like they've been no gear wrestling it just haven't been gi classes it sucks why do you prefer the gi that's what i started with kung fu started off in the gi did you do when i went to travis's gym gi you know it's like it's real martial arts yeah like the last thing that kevin does before he goes on the octagon you know before he comes out is he does his kata you know from

from uh from kung fu yeah you know so it's like it's like he we uh we do the warm-up he's all 100 warm and then that's kind of his cool down and that gets his head right and he's ready and it's like you know and this is you know it's part of the routine and it's like you know um you know kevin's very very traditional that way you know you have a specific kata that you like to do before you warm up or when you uh you're about to go out yeah to calm down 10 point blocking system is the one to calm down you know and they say 10 point blocking system but it really should be called like 10 point breathing system you know and. You're really focusing on your breathing. And then I like combat pinon.

I'm really, really fond of combat pinon. So the only forms that I'll still do is I'll do 10-point blocking system, of course. I'll do combat pinon. I'll do self-defense form to the left and to the right. That's the original one we learned. And then I'll do SDM2. That's the second self-defense form that we learned. And I kind of suck at SDM2. That's why I still practice it. SDM1, self-defense form that we learned and i kind of suck at sdm2 that's why

i still practice it uh sdm1 self-defense forms left and right the traditional one that for the whole art 10 basic footworks i do those i do the footworks you know every couple days or if i'm just bored or if i'm naked in the shower and then you know and then uh combat pinon i like to smoke a blunt and do combat pinon and it's uh it's supposed to be I like to smoke a blunt and do Combat Pinon. It's supposed to be like a scenery in a garden. You create the capital I. It's kind of like what you do. And then 10-point blocking system is just really good to just calm down, just relax.

I want to teach it to my little brother, but he's 14 years old, and I still don't think he's patient enough to learn it so you know it's a good one though i really love 10 point block system so you said you you train with uh shug is your strength and conditioning guy but he's also works with your hands do you have a muay thai coach do you work with someone that does kicks with you like no so i'm traditional i have like you know i'm my second degree black belt in kung fu so i know kicks pretty well uh but it's like i go out there and I get to work with Bob, of course, and I love working with Bob. Shout out to Black Beast in there. Texas is officially warm again now that the balls are back. We were talking about Derek's KO victory over Curtis Blades for this fight.

It's just holy shit. That shit was amazing. Scary, scary human. He can crack. Yeah. He can crack, and he keeps it, too. That was the thing, the Volkov fight. I remember calling that fight because he was down in the fight,

and I remember it was like right before he knocked him out. We were talking about it. I said, he can knock you out at any moment in the fight. Even deep into the third round, Derek can still knock you out. Can Francis do that? Boom. I don't know. We've never seen it. I don't know. He's never had to do it. Yeah, we do that? Boom. I don't know. We've never seen it.

I don't know. He's never had to do it. Yeah, we've never seen it. I don't know. They didn't do it against Stipe that first time. That would have been the answer. Yeah, that would have been. Yeah.

It's just, you know, I don't know if Derek could do it against Stipe either. You know what I'm saying? It's like he's not there to hit. Yeah. And he's so experienced. He knows when to clinch with you. He knows when to get you down. He knows how to wear you out. So whatipe was able to do though which was pretty shocking was

absorb some of the bigger shots that francis throws yeah and he went with them and he rolled with some shots and you know so how's his eye now i don't know you know i mean it got better enough that he was willing to fight dc a second time yeah how is it now i don't know man that's that's something i it's like you know you start losing eyes it's like this is this is all fun but like nick lance just just retired because he said he lost 40 of his vision no no thank you how does that happen pokes the pokes and then also trauma because boxers get it boxers get it you know it's like you get hit and it's like it'll detach you detach. So it's like maybe the centrifugal force, whatever, it makes that eye pop, and then the retina detaches,

and then they have to go in there and do surgery, and it's never right. Bisping only has one eye. That's pretty cool. So you can take out his eye. No, he has like a lens cover. A lens cover. He puts over his eye.

His eye has had so many surgeries on it that it looks weird. Oh, okay. If you see it that it looks weird you know it looks okay if you see it it's like you're you have two eyes he has one eye that looks normal and one eye where can you see it looks like a giant pupil no no barely see he can barely see and he fought like that yeah for how he how is he passing the i have no that's what i'm trying to figure out i have no idea because i right before my last fight they thought I had a detached retina. I had to go to a different one. I was like, oh, my God.

This is the end. It's crazy. I don't know. They're doing different things to try to heal trauma to eyes. There's a guy named Andrew Huberman who's been on my podcast before who's at Stanford University. And they're doing these things with, I there's somehow another engineering bacteria and they inject this bacteria in your eye and it repairs your eye and it repairs vision and yeah so they stick a needle in your eye yeah oh how bad would that hurt that would be

not be I don't like needles so terrible yeah not fun but if it fixes your eye I do it yeah I just wanna know how bad I mean I'd do it yeah not fun but if it fixes your eye i do it i do it yeah i just want to know how bad i mean i'd do it just to see how bad it hurt so does that is that uncomfortable as he said it like wearing that thing over your eye that's gonna be i don't know but i didn't know what he was doing he was on my part he's since done it on his show he's pulled the lens out and shown everybody what it is but he was on my podcast i'm like dude your eye looks great like what did you do and then afterwards he shows me pulls it out it's like yeah i can't even fucking see can't see no wow that's crazy yeah so he basically has like an artificial cover to his eye you know it's like a joe frazier joe frazier you know he was yeah there it is look

at that he's pulling it out so that thing sits over his eye yeah joe frazier you know the first fight he ever wore uh contacts for was when he fought uh uh oh big george big george foreman yeah so it's like that that's one of the things that nobody really talks about and that fight is he was wearing contacts in that fight back then contacts were glassed right and it's like and so it's like so they get you know he gets hit and they're going everywhere and he can't see no you know so it's like you know that was part of the problem for that fight fuck now because he was blind he was really yeah no it's like joe was basically legally blind at that point in time of his life from from boxing from boxing it's like so like you know he drove for years without

without a driver's license you know from what i've read um you so like you know he drove for years without without a driver's license you know from what i've read um you know with you know he's out there driving they said he drove fast and it's like he couldn't see he's driving by feel so it's like what driving by feel uh my grandfather did it he was like oh what's that that's a curb don't go left exactly it's a car that doesn't go left no no no you hit the curb that means go left you just hit shit

and bounce off of it and keep going oh yeah middle of the night driving middle of the night it's good stuff yeah if you're from the northeast

you get shit over your windshield you can't see oh yeah and from snow and ice or if you're in Texas and you know last week

last week how bizarre it's crazy crazy 100 year storm something like that if that we were talking about it

like there's no real record of anything that lasted that long like that went through Austin and Houston and Dallas and froze everything did you lose power

no we got lucky didn't lose power but you know pipes froze up oh your pipes froze yeah pipes froze up you know it's so crazy

i was so mad it's like the little hood apartment that i used to stay in yeah never lost power my uncle was good the whole time i moved into this nice new neighborhood beautiful house you know and i and i lose power my grandparents house right around the corner they lose power i go back to the hood and everybody over there has power i said i knew i shouldn't have moved i knew i shouldn't knew it man yeah it was a weird random random thing, but millions of people lost power, which is just so strange that it lasted for so long. And then, you know, a lot of tragedies too. Yeah, there was that boy that the mom found him.

They were from Honduras, and they were living in a trailer, and their trailer lost power. And then she found him under a bunch of blankets. You know, he's trying to keep warm and he froze to death you know it's like and i think there's 20 some people i read that died in texas so terrible bad deal bad jokes um what so your gym you were telling me your gym was only closed for a short amount of time for for during the pandemic yeah during the pandemic we closed down you know for that six weeks when they when the governor shut us down and i mean it's like and we were you know

kevin had to fight so it's like we were doing you know uh some training on the down low and stuff like that but we had to yeah we had to kevin's gonna fight no it's like and no it wasn't just because kevin had well travis gonna lose his mind travis is going crazy and then I vowed that it's like as soon as it was over and it made no change I'm not shutting down again they can shut us down but it's like

I'm not going to shut down I'm not going to do that to my people California is still shut down a year later terrible it's insane there's no jiu jitsu

in California legally a year later legally it's crazy I was out in Vegas and you have to like put your mask around you have to chin strap your mask.

Chin strap your mask in case the people come in. You can just pull it up. How are you supposed to train with that? That's dangerous. It's so silly. It doesn't make any sense. I understand. If you're physically older,

you have some sort of pre-existing... Don't go train. You shouldn't be in a jiu-jitsu gym. But to tell a healthy person that you can't go train, that's crazy. Not only that, who are the people that are telling us we can't do this?

They're not healthy. These are not wise people. They're just public health officials that are just deciding arbitrarily to close down outdoor dining where there's no evidence whatsoever that there's any spread from outdoor dining zero well it's like you know i could walk around and start slapping ho-hos out of you know people's hands and saying listen that because that's going to kill you oh no it's going to kill you but it's

also going to make you more susceptible to the disease which is going to make you transmit to more people right that's real also they're talking about obese people. Obese people that get COVID, they aspirate more. They cough more. Right. They have more issues. So you are literally likely to infect more people. As they're telling us not to go outside, not to, you know, vitamin Ds.

You know, I think one of the biggest things that they found that, you know, helps to prevent, you know, COVID. The people that are, you know, we're dying, we're, you know, vitamin D deficient. And, you know, it's like, and they're telling us not to go outside. 84% of the people in the ICU, vitamin D deficient for COVID. Right. 4% had sufficient levels of vitamin D for multiple studies. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's like. Vitamin D is giant. Do you take supplements? No. Nothing? UFC sent me some supplements to take, and I tried it for a while, and I feel like I was getting more sleepy taking the supplements than I was just regular training and smoking weed.

Kevin's just a different animal. That doesn't make any sense. Like, what supplements are they sending you? I don't know. Tranquilizers? They sent me a bunch of stuff. Equalizer. But if anybody asks, I do take Recover Me USA.

Yeah, I take that all day, every day. I swear i do sure super super believable hard sell yeah so you don't take anything just eat yeah eat and train get them to eat right it's you know difficult you know it's like kevin you gotta eat you know it's like man i'm just not hungry man you gotta eat like what's your diet like way laughing oh man see me and my old lady we just split so i don't know what the diet's gonna be like uh yeah she cooks everything she cooks really

good too probably go back to icon meals you know oh that's a good move yeah my grandparents live right around the corner though so grandma usually cooks so i'll just go over there and snack a few plates and stuff you know it's like breakfast i usually like uh you know it's like now that i'm single i ain't gonna be making no i ain't gonna be making no bacon so i'll probably just crack like two eggs you know what i mean and um give one to my son i'll take the other one you know you got on the bread yeah you gotta eat more than an egg yeah it's crazy talk really i feel good like that you know it's like you like eat light? yeah just you know just snack what do you walk around at?

what do you weigh? 196 pounds oh that's not much sometimes 194 when you see guys like Paulo Costa that you know he looks like

Jesus Christ I'd kill him how does he make weight? I have no idea that's 214 pounds I think you weighed in after the fight it's insane

that's crazy I used to fight 170 pounds and then I missed weight for like two California fights you know both times I just really wouldn't take away cut serious be honest with you yeah and it was like they start talking about how

you can't cut so much weight in California right 10% your body weight fights and I was like oh well I'm probably gonna have to go up to 85 and I was at the time I was going back and forth between California and Texas a lot to fight so I was like well just a 85 you know it's like half the time guys are out of shape anyways 85 I'll just stay at 85 you know and it's like and then I lost Lovato at 85 so I was like yeah I'm really gonna stay at 85 and get that fight back you know and it's like so it just makes sense not to cut that much weight you know and it's like I could probably make 170 with the nutritionist but we like the way that I act and we like the way I feel at 85. I like Kevin at 85 better.

It's like he's stronger. It's like we have better training partners for him, but that way, he gets down to when he's lighter. It's like, I prefer him at 85. You certainly have the frame for it. Yeah.

That's just such a big advantage to be long. He's stupid strong. It's like Kevin, it's like, put him up against anybody as far as strength at 85. Well, you certainly show it with one-punch power, you know. When Joaquin Buckley made that highlight reel crazy kick,

and then I was like, yeah, does everybody forget? Yeah, one fight ago. No one's, I mean, yeah, it was an amazing kick. It was amazing. That's my son. I'm proud of him, you know. I'm forever going to own that, you know. He's my kid, and then'm forever gonna i'm not forever gonna own that you know it's he's my kid and then i got my other kid who can't freaking pass drug tests

i got these two kids the aunt taveras guy he stays in houston the one that i fought those two are my everybody thinks that i can't i'd call everybody my kids that i beat no no it's only the two guys that i brought into the ufc you know i mean like i brought both those guys into the ufc and then i finished them those are my kids you know and it's like yeah those are my kids you know there's no way around it it was interesting that that fight made buckley like sort of this viral sensation deservedly so it's wild crazy wild but then you don't people like forgot yeah it was just one fight ago you came in with one punch but this is social media fans yeah you know it's like this is you know it's like this isn't real hardcore fans it's like you know and

you know it's like the hardcore guys know you know it's like i know who what kevin did to him yeah don't forget you know he's human yeah it's it's um the whole division right now is in such a an interesting place with uh adesanya about to fight Blachowicz. Who he got there? I don't know. Look, Israel's the most interesting striker, I think, in that division in terms of he's got so much kickboxing experience. He's so good at reads and feints and setting you up. One question, though, Joe.

Yes. Does he have a black belt in kung fu? No, he doesn't. All right. You and him had words, right? Like, was it after one of your victories you were yelling at him or something? Yeah. It started before that.

Yeah. Yeah. It started before that. He tried to punk me, like, my first day on the job. You know what I mean? First day on the job? Yeah. Like, I was...

He shoulder checked Kevin in the back. Really? Yeah. He was walking through. The Thiago fight, right're walking through the thiago fight right yeah the thiago fight and it's like so kevin has been mad about this since then you know it's like it's like when when something happens to kevin it's like you know it just festers in his brain and it's just you know it's just he's like yeah it's like so he's mad you know he's

angry that this happened you know it's like he does not you know kevin just doesn't like to be disrespected and he felt disrespected in that moment and and it's like you know whether or not stylebender remembers it or whatever you know is it's happened you know it happened you know it's as simple as it is you did it and you know it's like you can say oh i didn't do anything and it's like all right well and then they had another altercation you know at in the hotel you know it's like where everybody's staying, getting ready for this during quarantine UFC. They had that other little altercation. And then after the fight, then he was there, and then Kevin was yelling at him,

and he yelled something back. Yeah. Do you think that's an inevitable encounter? I mean, you know. It seems like it has to be, right? I would say this. I think if he wins it 205, he doesn't come back to 85. You think so? I don't? I mean, you know. It seems like it has to be, right? I would say this. I think if he wins at 205, he doesn't come back to 85. You think so?

I don't think he'll come back to 85. I have this theory, though. Money. Yeah. He'll be after money fights after that. Do you think there's more money at 205 than 85? Probably. It's like the heavyweights make more money than anybody.

Right, but he's not going to go up to heavyweight. Do you really think he's going to go up to heavyweight? I think if Jon Jones wins the heavyweight title, I think Izzy goes up there and, you know, fights Jon. He up to heavyweight. Do you really think he's going to go up to heavyweight? I think if Jon Jones wins the heavyweight title, I think Izzy goes up there and fights Jon. He fought a heavyweight in kickboxing. Yeah. You know, and won, right? Yeah.

He's a talented guy. He's really, really, really, really good. It's different when you had Grapplin, though. Yeah. But he's good. He's undefeated. I mean, it's hard to knock what he does. He's good.

He does fantastic work. But he has been knocked out before. well that perera fight yeah that guy's got crazy power man i know and i know somebody's gonna come to mma oh like you who has crazy coming home i mean you know you know sometimes i squeeze things too tight yeah um he's he's in mma. He's fighting for LFA. Really? Yeah, he's got a ruthless KO. His first fight in MMA in a while.

See if you can find that. Alex Purr, he knocked this dude out with a left hook. Same left hook he knocked Izzy out with. Yeah, he's got a crazy left hook. What weight is he at? Well, he's got two titles in glory. He's got the 85 and the 205 pound title in glory yeah he's a beast um but i don't know what his ground game's like

you have no idea what he has but is he just got his purple belt i think from atos right yeah from atos he's out there for like a week i might give him a stripe i'm allowed to do that i'm allowed to give people stripes? I don't know. You know, it's like... How does it work? Once you're a black belt, what are you allowed to give? You think you got to be the black belt for three years before you can start ranking people officially. Here it is.

Let's just... Boom. Got to get your first stripe. Nice. Face plant. Yeah. Can we see it again? Yeah, here it goes.

Boom. Boom. It's a smooth left hook, too. It's almost like it's right here, and then it's just right there. It's full rotation. The thing about him is when he throws things, he touches you, touches you, touches you. Boom. He'll throw things, and he looks calm and relaxed. Look at that kick.

Boom. That kick's not full power. He's just reaching up with that kick. Go back a little bit jamie show that again when you see how he touches guys with stuff bang i like that god damn that hurt crazy power and he does that to everybody he does that with the big gloves with the little gloves it's a different fucking story you know i'd fight him i'm sure you would you'd find anybody fucking story. I'd fight him. I'm sure you would. You'd fight anybody. I'm sure you'd fight Satan. Kevin has to fight, though.

It's like UFC making him wait this long is driving him crazy. Yeah. So this is the question. With Adesanya about to fight Blachowicz, you got this situation now where the 185 belt is potentially in limbo. Does that bother you when you see guys or champions fighting other champions and it sort of ties up both weight classes no no no she always kevin doesn't see a lot of gold i yeah i just want to fight it doesn't

have to be for the belt you know it's like uh but i mean when you look at the rankings like obviously now you're a top contender i want kevin gasol next that's me that'd be awesome yeah i i want to do him worse than what is he did him you know what i mean it's like i want to go out there and have that type of war you know it's like i i oblige you know it's like if not you know it's like do i have to go back a little bit it's like who's a good fight who's a fun fight you know it's like who can keep me active you know it's like that's what i want so right now you're just in the mind state of just keep going and he wants to fight name fighters but but but he wants to be active you know it's like him i have to wait till march is painful for is that what's going on yeah so they they have a fight scheduled for you in march yeah yeah brunson that's march but it's just it's just you know so

far it's just so far away so you really want to fight like almost every month yeah every other month it would be idealistic so that way i can spend a little bit of time with the family and the body can get a little bit of rest you know i'm just being realistic but every other month like like realistically speaking here for like my mental health and for the people around me it's like if i fought every other month it would be perfect it'd be great for everybody in my life and what do you like for a three round fight how many weeks do you like for a camp? I don't need a camp

for three rounds. I don't need a camp. For five rounds, we need three to four weeks. Coach? All last year, you know, he was taking those fights

on, you know, week notice, you know, week and a half notice, you know, and they were three-round fights and it's like, you know,

and now he was training, you know, because we'd just get done fighting and then he'd, you know, okay, you might fight again, come back to the gym. It's like he might take a week off. He might not.

Some of the times he wasn't taking a week off. He was just jumping back in the gym. And so he was just staying busy. And so he didn't really have a camp the whole year except for the last one. Yeah, we had a camp the last one. The last one. For Jacare. For Jacare we did.

It was Jack or Manson. Oh, that's right. We were going to get ready for Jack. And then they said I had COVID, so I just stayed in the house for a couple days, like about a week. And then we went back to the gym for a couple days, and then we had to go to Vegas. Yeah. So, you know, it's like, I don't know. I think if you train consistently, like, you know, people are like, oh, I'm getting ready for this fight.

I'm getting ready for this fight. Fuck you. I'm getting ready for war. You know what I mean? It's like, who wants it? They can come get it. You know? And it's like, you give me enough time to cut weight to 170 pounds coach don't like

it but if that's what it takes to catch a fight i'll catch a fight if i have to go up to 205 and my body can somehow make it happen if i have to put little egg weights inside my uh draws i'll do that i've done that before to make 196 you know it's like it's like whatever you know it's like i just want to fight you know it's like fight as much as possible do you consider 170 like is there like if they called you up i will i will but you know to cut the 170 either a i have to be sitting out not having a fight coming up and so i'm that pissed off that i don't have a fight coming up on my coach we just have to do this coach would be like all right fuck it we got to do it you know or kevin can make 170 and yeah for a fight that we like yeah two weeks

two weeks yeah yeah long as I'm not long as long as I'm not running around going crazy and it's like in the odor I get the less I eat crazy it's like I used to eat you know it's like you know the grandma box of cookies was like the vanilla ones are like six to eight in them I like the peanut butter ones I see the whole box you know six packs of those one whole night well I don't do that anymore they're fucking good you know they are good I can't handle it yeah I can't handle it anymore I can't even drink milk anymore you know six packs of those one whole night well i don't do that anymore they're fucking good you know they are good i can't handle it yeah i can't handle it anymore i don't even drink milk anymore you know it's like uh yeah so much peanut butter i mean we actually looked it up if you take too

much intake too much peanut butter in your body it fucks up your ingestive system your yeah your insides and stuff so peanut butter yes it's fucking crazy you can google it i've done way too much peanut butter over the years you've've ruined your body with peanut butter? I've ruined my body with peanut butter. It's fucked up, man. How is peanut butter bad for you? I've never even heard of that before. I never thought it was bad for you. I always thought it was good for you.

And so it's like I'm just constantly eating peanut butter, constantly eating peanut butter, peanut butter all day, every day. I thought peanut butter was high in protein. Peanuts are good for you? That's where I've been getting my protein at from years. It's bothering your stomach though, right? It's just tearing my stomach up. Yeah, he was having problems when he was eating peanut butter.

But what form are you having peanut butter in? Oh, man. With what? You name it. Like peanut butter cookies, whether they're homemade, store-bought. So here you got flour and sugar. Can't be the cookie's fault. And then I mean...

What else? Peanut butter was with everything. What else that's bothering you? Pop-tart peanut butter. Okay, you got fucking pop-tarts. You got sugar and you got flour. You got bullshit food. I don't think it's the peanut butter, bro.

I mean, I wouldn't just go. Yeah, but if you were, I bet you'd be fine. I probably would. Because you're talking about your insides. You're talking about inflammation. You're going to get that for sure from flour, from gluten, from sugar. Should have fucking called Joe. I don't think it's the peanut butter.

So I can just take a spoon and just... I mean, look, I'm pretty far from a nutritionist, but I do know that there's... If you're having peanut butter with Pop-Tarts, I don't think it's the fucking peanuts. Joe, you're going to make me Google this right now. I'm telling you. It was...

Because I switched it. I even switched up what I was putting peanut butter on. Like, I'll just put peanut butter on this, and I'll probably feel better this way. Like, what else? You know... Cake? No. Yes. Peanut butter and cake. switched up what i was putting peanut butter on like i'll just put peanut butter on this and i'll probably feel better this like what else yeah it's you know cake no yes what the hell what's wrong in the world that you started eating peanut butter i start smoking when i wake up right and then by time i go to bed all i want is peanut butter on anything i get it and it's like if i can't have peanut butter on something i understand that but i don but I really don't think it's the peanut butter.

It's the peanut butter, Joe. It's the peanut butter. I'm 99% sure it's other bullshit that comes with the peanut butter. As long as he's eating it. So is that a thing with him? Yeah, trying to get him to eat is hard. Yeah, I, you know. When you were saying you want him to have more than one egg with breakfast.

Is that legitimately what he has at breakfast? Yeah, I don't know. You know, it's like, hey, what did you eat today? And he'll tell me, and it's like, okay, you need to go eat. So UFC has a meal prep company that they work with, right? They do a lot of meal prep where they'll, like the Performance Institute. Icon Meals? Yeah.

Is that Icon? No, the Performance Institution? They work with someone else, too. That's Throne. Performance Institution is... No, it's not Throne. Yeah, it else, too. That's thrown. Performance institution is... No, it's not thrown. Yeah, it is thrown. It's something like that.

I don't remember, but I know they do it with fighters. I think Kelvin, in one of his last UFC embedded episodes, they showed the meal prep that they have with him. I think. Yeah. Some fighters. I know those plastic meal prep things. Yeah.

Those things. Iconville makes some really good ones yeah yeah they have like this ravioli trifecta okay trifecta there it is

so that's the UFC's meal prep company yeah we get those every fight week fight week they give us trifecta and it's a Kevin doesn't like them

you don't like them it's horrible man but it's no peanut butter no peanut butter no flavor in anything. But it's part of the program, so I eat it. He's not happy about it.

Yeah, it's like, I'm like, I eat that and I don't even have to cut weight. I'm at 185 pounds just from eating that crap. Really? Yeah. And then they put something on every meal that makes you poop. Every meal makes you poop. You eat, 10 to 15 minutes later, you got poop. But isn't that probably good?

I already poop a lot. I don't need to poop any more than I already poop. It's not a problem? After a certain time, it's too much poop. I understand. Yeah, it can be an issue. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, it's good, though, that you don't have to cut weight if you're taking that stuff. If you're eating trifecta meals, your energy's good? Yeah, I feel, man. He cuts a little bit of water. It's like he's walking into Vegas at 196 pounds. It's like by the time he really starts cutting weight, it's like he's 192 or 193, but he's cut back. He's only eating what they're giving him.

And then he rehydrates after. He cuts a little bit of water and weighs in and he's good. And when you rehydrate, do you have a specific, do you use certain electrolytes? Do you have something that you take? Trifecta. Trifecta as well? After that, the food's pretty good.

Yeah, but I mean, what about electrolytes? Do you drink a drink? They have T1, T2, and then T3. And then they have different things in them. They have a little slip that has like all these different stuff that they put in there. And one's salty, one's sweet, one kind of tastes like a beefed up Pedialyte.

It's pretty good. I like it. You know, the drinks are really good. You know, it's the meals that you eat all week before the fight that suck. You know, I just don't like it. You just like things that are more flavorful. Yeah. Well, Andy, you've got to keep in mind, it's like fight week, he's not smoking.

Nothing tastes good. Nothing tastes good. Skinny Fats tastes fantastic fight week. Skinny Fats. Shout out to Skinny Fats. What's Skinny Fats? It's right down the street from the little hotel that we stay at. There's a little place called Skinny Fats. They serve burgers and fried pickles's skinny fats it's right down the street from the little hotel that we stay at there's a little place called skinny fats they serve burgers and

fried pickles oh oh it's in vegas yeah oh okay what has it been like this whole training and competing during the pandemic like do you like fighting with no audience is it weird yeah it's like it's like takes me back you know it's almost like street fights one-on-one you know it's just going out there somebody pulls you off you're like oh is this the police nope it's the bro it's time to be done we're out of here it's a wrap i whooped his ass clicked a little cash we're good see bass that's all it is to it i love it do you prefer large crowds or do you i love a large crowd i love a large crowd but it doesn't bother you to have no crowd however you want it we can get it I've been saying it's interesting calling those fights because you hear everything. And I always feel so lucky I get to be there.

Like the Usman Gilbert Burns fight last weekend. That was crazy. I was like, Jesus Christ, I can't believe I'm right here. There's no one in here. And it was like 20 people in the whole building. I get to watch that. Well, it's terrible for the fight. If you fight on the undercard

then you're like they kick you out of that place and you gotta go back to your hotel room and it's like you can't can't watch the fights on the TV so you're watching it on your phone

oh really so if you're on the undercard you can't watch from the dressing room no they kick you out it's like you know

so it's like if you're there you know it's like so we're trying to watch the fights you know it's like at the end of the day

we're all fans we want to watch the fights and we can't watch them. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, it's terrible. Why don't they have a training,

like a screening room? They need to. Fuck yeah. That place is giant. They have everything there. We do fight, media, media.

Oh yeah. And then they, they send us, send us back. And it's like, you know, so it can't even stop again. Yeah.

It's like, if they just put the damn fights in the, the damn hotel room, that'd be okay. Right. You know, it's like, well, we can't even stop again yeah it's like if they just put the damn fights in the the damn hotel room that'd be okay right you know it's like well we can't even watch them there so oh that's ridiculous yeah yeah you gotta watch it on the phone you don't have the green room everybody's tested this is what i don't understand like once you get there you're all tested but yeah we're still wearing masks well they make us i don't understand it yeah we got we got we have to wear a mask we get tested three times at least before before we go there everybody that you know everybody that's working there you

got tested everyone's tested that's what doesn't make sense so it's like why do i gotta wear a mask why can't i hang out and watch the fights right once you're tested right i feel like you should just be able to sit down and watch the fights that'd be pretty cool yeah i'd like to sit down yeah bring us some food too yeah food how about? Wouldn't that be nice? It'd be amazing. Get trifecta on standby. They should have post-fight meals. Yeah. Well, they used to.

They used to have the green room. Legit, delicious chicken and waffles, meatloaf, something good. I'm getting hungry. Right? Something good. Before the pandemic, they would have food, except for in China. That wasn't food in China. No?

No. That was terrible. What did they for in China. That wasn't food in China. No? No. That was terrible. What did they get in China? It wasn't food. It was just, we couldn't get real food in China. What do you mean? What did you get? It was just, it was nasty.

Oh, my God, dude. It was just, it was terrible. It was bad. Really? I like sushi, so I was- Put it this way. We were there for Thanksgiving, and the UFC, the brass there, was apologizing to us. It's like, we're there for Thanksgivinggiving and the ufc like the brass there was explained was apologizing to us you know it's like we're there for thanksgiving we're having a thanksgiving meal

the ufc is putting it on and they're apologizing listen this is as good as we could get what was it it was they had a turkey and you know but everything else well they got to eat a turkey yeah you didn't get to eat it i ain't cutting weight it's like they didn't get to eat it that was horrible yeah so that was the worst experience with food? Yeah. I almost got arrested for that. Ketchup. What?

Yeah. I went off. I wasn't there for that. You almost got arrested for ketchup? Yeah. Cowboy and Suge were like, Kevin, Kevin, we're in a foreign country, bro. Calm down. I was like, fuck you.

I want my ketchup. And I was like blocking the kitchen. And they were like, you can't do this. I was like, you i want my ketchup and i was like blocking the kitchen and they were like you can't do this i was like give me my fucking ketchup and they were like whoa no and they were like you need to sit down why are we so amped up over ketchup we just got done cutting weight and i wanted ketchup and hot sauce for my eggs you know they didn't want to give me ketchup i found hot sauce a little bottle just couldn't find any ketchup you know and this is in china yeah china food's rough man yeah yeah it's like i mean it's just there's no incentive for anybody to you know it's like uh you know it's a problem with communism you know it's like there's just no incentive you

know it's like uh you know in this third fourth generation communism they had good breakfast the hotel had good breakfast no no i asked for I asked for... I liked it. No. They had cold French toast. It was good. It was good. I got used to it. I asked for salt and pepper. They brought me salt and paper. Oh, no.

I was like, what do I do? I thought you were going to write something down. I was like, okay, whatever. So what we could do to improve the UFC Performance Institute, like the Apex Center, like have a room where there's couches and a big-ass TV. We could social distance. It's fine. Why do you even have to social distance?

I don't get it. Everybody's fucking tested. But if they give us food and let us watch the fights, then I'll social distance. I get it. In fact, I'm in favor of social distancing. They're treating this virus like it's a demon. No, it's so silly.

It's just a virus. It's not that much different from other viruses. It's just contagious, and it's bad if you get it. But I would guess it's the lawyers. The lawyers are probably... It's got to be the lawyers saying, listen, you're going to be liable, blah, blah, blah. But they're loosening things up.

It's more loose now than it's ever been before, particularly in Vegas. They're looser. They're getting better? Yeah, they're getting better. Man. It's more loose now than it's ever been before, particularly in Vegas. They're looser. They're getting better? Yeah, they're getting better. Man, the last time we were there, it was when we were there in December. Was it December or November? December.

December, yeah. That was the worst one. We couldn't go out on our own. They had to go with us. It's like if we went to the grocery store, they're driving you there in the car. You couldn't take an Uber. So December was worse than the other months that we were there. But it's like, you know, I hope you're right.

I hope it is better. Well, look, kudos to the UFC just for doing it. Oh, yeah. I mean, when they first started doing it, when was the first fights? April or some shit? May? May. When they first started having the first fights in Florida,

everybody was like, you're going to kill everybody. Everyone was so scared. It was like such a weird thing that they were deciding to do this but now every sport does it right you know i mean after a while they're like look we gotta live yeah i was happy well you gotta make money it's like money makes the world go around and it's like the money stops guess what food doesn't gonna come you gotta pay for all this stuff you know it's like it's you know the world you know you have to make money You've got it and it's like you're shutting down the world is not a solution Well, so if you're a 25 year old fighter that is you like you're in your fucking prime and now you're gonna lose a whole

Year of competition you're gonna lose if you're in California You're really gonna lose a whole year of training because like how unless you're just lying and locking the door They have to they have to you're not allowed to. They have to. You're not allowed to train. Your jujitsu just goes away. Yeah, it's like Muhammad Ali. Muhammad Ali lost three years for the war. And it's like, and he never looked the same. Never looked the same.

Never looked the same. It's like when he was beating up Floyd Patterson or who's that other guy that wouldn't call him Muhammad Ali. They referred to him as Cash Clay and he just beat the shit out of him for 15 rounds. And then the Cleveland Big Cat Williams fight, which is the last fight before they took away his title for three years. But then when he came back after fighting Jerry Quarry, his body just never looked the same. Looked soft.

It just didn't look the same. I read that he didn't train. Yeah, for three years. He didn't run. He didn't do anything. And it's like you know his first day back uh you know he walks into the gym puts on his gloves and went and sparred you know one of the contenders and beat the shit out of him okay i'm good i'll fight and you know it's

like this this another very very special athlete you know it's like what the fuck you know how does this work you know that you take three years off and you come back and still gonna beat up most everybody it's too bad that he took that time off. It's horrible that they stole from 27 to 30, the prime of his career. That would suck. With COVID, it's such a strange thing that in California, they literally don't allow you to train. It's not like you could all get tested and then train.

If they just had that rapid antigen test at the desk, you you have to wait 15 minutes before you can train what's that cost though i don't know i think they get it down to about 20 per test yeah but that's you know then you're adding that into your training cost yeah it's not good lots of fighters couldn't afford to train you know it's not good no it's not it's not ideal but i feel like it's better than nothing it's listen you got a fever you got a runny nose don't come in you know it's better than nothing. Listen, you've got a fever. You've got a runny nose. Don't come in. It's like if you're healthy, you're not coughing. It's like you feel good.

Come train. Other than that, stay home. Right. You're not grappling in a nursing home. No. Right. You're dealing with athletes. I understand.

If you've got a family that you've got to protect and stuff like that, don't come in. Don't come in. But don't tell me I can't come in. That's the thing, right? It's the Don't come in. But don't tell me I can't come in. That's the thing, right? It's the telling people what they can and can't do. And who are the people that are telling you what you can and can't do? And what are they basing it on? Because a lot of it is not based on science.

Because if it was, they would not have ever blocked outdoor dining. They wouldn't have stopped that. Because there's no evidence that shows that outdoor dining is spreading it. Did you see that lady in California? Yeah. And then the movie thing opened up beside her? Yeah, she had an outside thing that she had spent thousands of dollars to set up for her restaurant

and they told her she has to shut down and literally when they told her she has to shut down, across the parking lot is this enormous set up for a movie theater. And they're eating outside. No, not a movie theater, for a movie set. Not a movie theater, yeah, a movie set. And they're eating outside because the movie unions, the filmmakers unions, all the different

movie companies, they spend a lot of money and they influence politicians. Right. And you know that they all want to- It's dark. It's dark. It's terrible. It's terrible. Because it's like this lady spent, I don't know how much money.

And she was barely hanging on. Right. Barely hanging on anyway. Did anybody help her? I don't know. I think there was a GoFundMe. Yeah. I think there was a GoFundMe. Yeah. Yeah, there was a GoFundMe that helped her.

But fuck those people. Fuck all those people. It's going to be thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars that she's losing. 75% of all restaurants in Los Angeles don't exist anymore. Where do people go eat now in LA? Alberto's. That's the thing. Those fucking fast food places

are still open. Yeah. You know, a lot of like bad unhealthy choices are still open. You can still go get carne asada fries. Of course.

Pharrell, those things are good. I'm sure they are. It's hard to get in Texas. Have you tried to get carne asada fries since you've been here? I've not tried to get

carne asada fries. I generally don't fuck with fries. What? Yeah. Fries? I like a little every now and then. I'll have one or two. Fries? Yeah. Joe. Fries. I generally don't fuck with fries. What? Yeah. Fries? I like a little every now and then. I'll have one or two. Fries?

Yeah. Joe. Fries? They're just not good for you. Listen, peanut butter man. Joe goes on a lot of different diets. He'll do the all meat diet. He'll do the vegan thing.

You did the vegan thing for a little while, didn't you? Not really. No. When I was in my Taekwondo days, I was a vegetarian for like six months. Really? To try to lose weight. Was your Taekwondo days, was that during Fear Factor days? No, it was before that.

Oh. Yeah. That's when I was a kid. When I was in high school. You know Fear Factor? Yeah. Man, that's the first TV show me and my mom ever sat down and watched together. Really?

Like wanting to watch. I'm not talking about her making me watch Lifetime shit. I'm talking about we wanted to watch it. Right. Yeah. It was a fun show. Yeah, it was pretty cool. You don't miss it?

No. No, no, no. You wouldn't just do it one more time? No, no, no, no, no, no. It's over. I did so many of them. I did it for six years, and then I came back and did another six episodes. Well, look.

It's a long fucking time, man. I just wanted to let you know. Had you told me this was my interview to get into a Fear Factor situation, when my transmission blew, I would have put that bitch in reverse and drove it all the way here. Well, you would tell everybody what happened. Do you have a 67 Impala? Yeah, I was smashing here. Is it a 67 or a 69?

67. No, actually, it's a 68. My bad. It's a 68. 68. Beautiful cars. Yeah Is it 67 or 69? 67. No, actually, it's 68. My bad. It's a 68. 68. 68. Beautiful cars. Yeah.

My Bel Air is a 67. The Impala is a 68. And I was driving. I was going about 115. I was smoking. And I started seeing all this smoke. And I look around. I'm like, yo, dude, this blunt is hitting hard.

And I turn around. And I'm like, oh, shit, my car is smoking. So I pull over. And I look down the bottom. It's a bunch of pink shit. And I'm like oh shit my car is smoking so i pull over and i look down the bottom it's a bunch of pink shit and i'm like oh this is not good i taste it it's transmission fluid okay i didn't taste it i didn't taste it that was on the way yeah i was on the way here i was smashing i was i was going like 115 you know it was doing good now is that car set up to go 115 like do you have real brakes on it like yeah yeah i

got i got uh this brakes all the way around i have uh i beefed up the motor it's originally like what like a 350 360 or something like that it's beefed up to like a 404 so you're into cars yeah yeah i mean and i mean you know i'm in the spending money joe you know it's like data white said those were money pits and he was like get that car So I was like oh money pit And you're telling me to get the car So yeah I'm enjoying it And they look really cool And like man they turn heads

You know and it's like Everybody's watching me You don't have to tell me I love it I'm a big fan of those old cars Yeah I love them I love it

I got a 75 Dodge Plymouth at the house too A Duster So while this one's down I'll probably just hop in the Duster For a few days Yeah that'd be pretty cool You when you came from Dana White's Tuesday night contender series to the UFC well I don't understand why this is just me I like when guys talk a lot I like a lot of shit talking I think it's fun I think it's it makes people interesting it makes

especially in the sport like the more attention, the more conflict, the more personality that you have, the more you're marketable. But there was some tension with the UFC in the beginning. It was during the fight. So it's like during the fight, so quiet on the contender.

You can hear everything. And Kevin's talking. Kevin talks when he fights. I like it when Kevin talks because it means that he's relaxed he's doing his thing uh you know it's uh it's a good thing dana did not like it i don't understand that well it's like you know kevin he felt like you know because i talked to dana after afterwards and he's like why didn't he finish him and it's like well there wasn't danger you know it's like kevin has to have danger if there's danger so it's like the quality of kevin's gonna if you're if the level of fighter is here kevin will fight here okay if the level

of fighter is here kevin will fight here okay and it just keeps going up and up and up and up so the better the fighter gets you know the better kevin's gonna fight if if the guy isn't very good kevin's it's not gonna be a highlight reel knockout you know it's like and that's nothing against the guy that we fought i don't remember his name uh you know but it's not going to be a highlight reel knockout. You know, it's like, and that's nothing against the guy that we fought. I don't remember his name. You know, but it's like, you know, it's like that's nothing against him. It's just, you know, at that time and stuff like that, you know, he wasn't, you know, bringing out the best in Kevin. And it's like, you know, Kevin kind of needs that.

You know, he needs to have a little fear, a little danger. You know, the chance that somebody can do something bad to him in order for him to perform. If not, he'll just fuck around. Do you agree with that, Kevin? Yeah, 100%. I mean, I'm self-defense, you know. It's like kung fu, traditional martial arts, self-defense. Jiu-jitsu, it's supposed to be for self-defense, you know. It's like everything I do is self-defense.

So it's like if you're not coming at me and giving me a real reason to fight, there's no real reason to fight. But you're telling us guys now, they're like, hmm, I don't want to get fucked up. Maybe we'll just like dance around chill i mean around i mean you know the old me would chill the new me is like i want all the smoke you know it's like i finally realized i really really just like that's what keeps me good and you know that's what keeps me going just going out there and having a good hard fight it's not about who wins not about who loses it's not

about none of that it's about going out there and having a great time you know this is a party you know and march 20th i get to be the life of the party that's the main event so we're gonna go out there and make sure that everybody's pleased and everybody had a good party and we're gonna have a good good time you know if we can do that again like six weeks later perfect four weeks later even better well you realize also if you like to spend a lot of money this is the best way to make a lot of money. Just fight. And fight and be exciting. Dude. The more exciting you can be, the more marketable you are. But when Daniel Nutt brought you back, when he was calling you big mouth, he brought you back.

Then you showed, regardless whether you talk too much, you can fight your fucking ass off. And then I can't imagine you almost didn't get into the ufc yeah that to me that's bananas it's crazy right well look at how good he's doing right and what a top contender you are it's fucking crazy to me yeah that just because of talking right yeah i like him talking you know it's like i've had other refs that you know like local i don't local Texas referees. I don't like when referees tell you not to talk. Don, Don Turnage.

That's not your job. That's not your job. Don Turnage, my guy Don, he hates it. He's like, Kev, when I'm reffing you, just shut the fuck up. No. But why? You're not doing anything. There's no rules out there that say you can't talk.

Why do referees say that? I don't know. It's a mistake. Let them fight. Jack Johnson fought. When Jack Johnson fought back in the day, they said that he talked the whole fucking time. It's like he's talking shit. It's like one of the best boxers of all time is out there talking shit.

It's like, I like it that Kevin fought. Muhammad Ali. Right. He's fucking with you. What's my name? Bam Bam. It's like, what's my name? It's like it's like i like it that kevin muhammad ali right yeah talking with you yeah i mean what's my name yeah bam bam you know it's like what's my name always existed you're playing dominoes no oh well i know people talking a lot of shit though yeah it's it's it's it's part of the culture baby it's what we do you know we talk some shit when we're having a good time you know you're competitive you talk some shit you're having a good time you talk some shit oh connor constantly talks shit when he fights like it's

Khabib yeah, oh yeah, yeah, let's talk now Come on, let's talk. Let's talk now Yeah Yeah, I don't know you think comes comes back I Hope he comes back cuz I'm selfishly, but I also hope he comes back, selfishly. But I also hope he doesn't. I hope he doesn't. Part of me loves the fact that the guy retired undefeated,

mauled everybody they put in front of him, barely lost a round his entire career, went out with a hard-fought victory over a fucking super tough guy, Justin Gaethje, and that's it. Great story. It's a great story. It's a good story. I hope it's over.

Could be better. I would have liked to have saw him fight GSP. That would have been fun to watch. Him versus Usman, you think? Yeah. Wow.

Goes up to 170? Yeah, these days and time, you can't be the GOAT unless you're a double champ. Fucking be a triple champ. You know? It's like, do it. Do it.

Do it. What's stopping you from doing it? You mold everybody at 155. Yeah, but I've never been cut. I think with him, it's a do it do it do it what's stopping you from doing it mmm you mold everybody at 155 it's a different story like for you I think that's that's very true it's like you know the way that you think about things and stuff like that this is somebody that you know it's like really really really like being undefeated was really really important to him it's like yeah it's like you know it's just a different he's a different you know a different Floyd's undefeated too

But he's not the greatest boxer of all time It's arguable he is It's arguable he is I don't think so He's been hit hard maybe four times His whole fucking career You stop and think about how many fights he fought Elite guys

Not just great defense The best defense of all time You're talking about a guy who's fought everybody. He fought everybody. He fought Canelo. He fought Pacquiao. Maybe he didn't fight Pacquiao when he was in his prime. And maybe he fought Canelo when he was young and it made him cut extra weight.

He did some smart shit. But at the end of the day. That's part of being a fighter though, right? Yeah. At the end of the day, the fucking guy is 49 and Conor McGregor. That's what he is. That's what I say. 49 and Conor McGregor? Yeah, because it's kind of weird.

It's kind of weird. Somebody like Sugar Ray Robinson. Sugar Ray Robinson. Different. Different time, different time. He's lost it, right? Yeah, he lost 15. I think Sugar Ray Robinson had somewhere in the neighborhood of

90 plus victories before his first defeat, though. Let's find that out. his first defeat was the wasn't it to jack lamotta jake lamotta jake may how old was he was he out of his prime no there might have been his first defeat no he got knocked out he got knocked out yeah by lamotta i thought he got knocked out by billy khan no jack lamotta knocked him out. Jake LaMotta. Me and names is terrible. I think he beat him in a decision in the first fight,

and then Robinson beat the shit out of him in the second fight. No, no, no. Really? Sugar Ray Robinson. They fought six times. They fought six times, and Robinson won them. I didn't know Jake ever knocked him out. Robinson beat him the first time, and I think in the rematch is when uh when uh

jake lamotta knocked him out knocked him out i don't remember that and then and then in the sixth fight uh he tko'd jake uh um but it was a standing tko and he never you know he never got knocked off of his feet right that that you know and he was you know talking shit to well you stopped me but you didn't never i never me But you never put me down Yeah that was That was the St. Valentine's Day mascot right? Yeah When he went through the ropes

Yeah just getting pounded on the ropes That guy had a ridiculous chin Crazy Eating shots like that from Sugar Ray Robinson Wasn't that at middleweight too When Robinson really started off at 147? Yeah, I think it was lighter. I think he started even lighter.

It was 40, 44. See if you can pull up his record, Sugar Ray Robinson. His Sugar Ray Robinson. Boxing record. His record's like 200, almost 200 fights. That's crazy. Why can't we get that many fights? Or 250, something like that.

How come we can't get that many fights in MMA? Oh, it's more than that. Well, in boxing, his 200th fight was, well, look at that, 173-196 against Joey Archer. That's his 200th fight. Go back to his first loss, or go back to the Jake LaMotta fights. You've got to go way back. Stop. Those are all win, win, win, win, win, win, win.

Jake LaMotta, so he beat him at 36-0, win, win, win, win, win. Jake LaManna. So he beat him at 36-0 and then he lost. Unanimous decision. Yeah, I was right. 40-0? And then he beat him again. Unanimous decision. So he lost the unanimous decision to Jake LaManna.

And then he beat everybody else up into a draw with Jose Barrosa. Basoro, rather. So he made it to 40-0? Yeah, I thought it was a lot more than that. So his 40-first fight, he lost. That was his first loss. And it was a decision of Jake LaMotta. I guess Floyd really is a GOAT.

I think he's the GOAT. It's a different era. Here's the thing. It's like, you know, when you look at Mike Tyson, we just had this conversation yesterday on the podcast, but I think Mike Tyson, in his his prime when he knocked out Larry Holmes when he was When he starched Marvis Frazier like when he was just smashing everybody I think he had reached this level that you can only maintain for a certain amount of years

You know whether like I think the same thing you can say for Fedor when he was was in his prime when he was running Things in pride. Yeah, there's a level that you could reach that you can only maintain for a certain amount of years. And it's real hard because I think, this is what I said yesterday, I think if Muhammad Ali had been in the same era as Mike Tyson, he would have been better because Mike Tyson was around. You get better depending upon who's around you. And when you're in an era, you're kind of defined by your competition ali was defined by joe frazier and defined by joe george foreman and and all the guys that he fought ken norton all those

guys that he fought in his era but there's it's a different era with tyson it's a different era you're also forgetting that he beat uh you know floyd uh floyd patterson uh you know it's like before you know like all the fights that he had before he came back, but those just weren't competitive. He was so fast. He hit so hard. Beating Sonny Liston. Sonny Liston's...

He was a murderer back then. Yeah, he's a freaking... Killer. Yeah, it's like... He destroyed Floyd Patterson. Twice. Twice in the first round, right? You couldn't get hit by him.

You just couldn't get hit by him. He had giant fucking hands. A guy guy that was close close to the mafia you know he's like and uh yep so he beat all those guys you know it's like and yep you know it's like so maybe if he doesn't have that three years off you know maybe maybe yeah maybe who knows who knows but he did and it's also he was a different cultural figure, right? Because when you look at his impact on society and civilization, he stood for something. He was a guy who was like, I'm not going to fight in this fucking war. It doesn't make any sense. They took his title away from him and the people loved him.

Yeah. It's a different scene. Well, you had about 50% of the population hated him. Right. And then 50% of the population loved him and thought he was the greatest thing ever. And it's like, I ain't going over there to fight any vietcong they didn't do anything to me it's like uh you know it he's a very very interesting you know figure and then you got somebody like uh you know joe frazier you know uh you know very very good fighter you know

won the olympic gold medal was an alternate going into the olympics and uh and the alternate you know i forget what happened over there uh you know he ended up not fighting joe fought he won the olympic gold medal they they actually rematched uh as pros and then joe stopped him i fourth or fifth round um and uh you know he was a beast you know and then george foreman you know it's like that's a guy that didn't ever put on a pair of gloves until he was, I think, 19 years old, right? That's crazy. It's like 19 years old. Think about that.

There's just not that many guys that have never put on a pair of gloves until they're 19 years old and then get to that level. Well, that's the Deontay Wilder story, too, you know. Is it? Yeah, Deontay Wilder boxed for a year and a half before he won a bronze medal in the Olympics. Okay.

George Foreman won the gold medal in the olympics okay uh george foreman george foreman won the gold medal in the 70s you know when it's like when it was even i think harder you know to win the gold medal because because of the cubans and the russians you know it's like they they never went pro and stuff like that you had that right um phyllis stevenson right um and so it's like i think it was the 76 olympics that he the gold medal. And he was like 24 fights as an amateur. That's all the fights he had, never lost. That's nuts. And it's like, you know, just crazy.

He fought just 20 times as an amateur before traveling to Mexico City for the 1968 Olympic Games. Amazing. You know, and never lost. And then so, like, think about that. You know, this guy's walking through guys like Joe Frazier, and then he fights older Muhammad Ali, and then gets knocked out in the eighth. It's crazy.

He believed that he was invincible. Arguably the hardest hitter ever. It's like, what would have happened to Mike Tyson? We might not have known who Mike Tyson was if he would have been around in those days. Who knows? Or Mike Tyson would have smashed him. been around in those days. Who knows? Or Mike Tyson would have smashed him.

Yeah, you just don't know. He was faster than everybody. The thing about Mike Tyson as a knockout fighter, if you watch the Marvis Frazier fight. I don't think he was faster than Muhammad Ali, though. I don't think he was faster. Muhammad's feet were so fast. I don't think he was faster than Ali. You got to think back to when he fought Sonny Liston or when he fought Floyd Patterson. You got to think about how his feet were so fast I don't think he was faster than Ali you gotta think back to when he fought Sonny Liston or when he fought Floyd Patterson

you gotta think about how his feet were then but the three years afterwards I think he was faster than when he fought when he came back you think that Mike Tyson was faster than that version yeah I agree with that yeah that's what I'm saying but Ali was a different animal

no one had been around before him there was a heavyweight that moved like that. They didn't exist. Well, Andy had probably the best chin ever. An amazing chin. He wasn't that heavy for a heavyweight, though, right? No. No. The Olympic gold medal he won was cruiserweight.

Was it? Yeah, he didn't fight at heavyweight. He moved up to heavyweight when he turned pro. Who was the English guy that knocked him down And they cut his gloves George Was it George Yeah it was George

George I'm trying to remember He was a British gentleman Who had a really good left hook And he caught him with a left hook And dropped him and had him in all kinds of trouble And they Te tear on his glove. Tear on his glove.

George starts with an H, if I remember right. They tore his glove. Why did they tear his glove? He had a small little rip, and his corner, you know, what's his trainer's name? Tore the glove a little bit. Yeah. And they tried to find a pair of gloves,

and it halted the action of the fight for about five minutes. And it gave Muhammad Ali time to clear his head. And then they resumed the fight. They never found another pair of gloves. They put it on him in the middle of the rounds. Think about this. This is like. Wasn't it Henry something?

Yeah, Henry, Henry. You're right. That's good cornering. Henry Cooper. There it is. There it is. That's good cornering. Yeah, it was good cornering.

And it's like, and then he went out there, and he stopped him on cuts. Angelo Dundee. Yeah, he stopped good cornering. And then he went out there and he stopped him on cuts. Angelo Dundee. Yeah, he stopped him on cuts. And I don't remember if it was the next round or the following round. Yeah. But he cut really, really easy. They said they had his skin.

He'd just get bumped. See if you can find that fight when Henry Cooper drops him because it's crazy. He hurt him. But he looks dead. His ass hits and he pops back up. But when Joe Frazier dropped him, it's like his ass hit and he pops right back up. It's crazy. He looks dead.

His chin was incredible. It's amazing. But no one's got a crazier pop back up story than Tyson Fury versus Deontay Wilder. That was crazy. That was crazy. That looked like it was over for sure. I remember I was watching it on TV. I was watching it in bed.

I had my feet up, and in the 12th round, I jumped up. Oh! I thought it was over. He knocked him out in the 12th. And when Deontay's going like this, and you see Tyson laying on his back, seven, eight, and then he just gets up. I'm like, no way. And then outboxes him the rest of the fight.

Then outboxes him. He wins the rest of the fight. Then outboxes him. He wins the rest of the round. Okay. Praising. Remember when Randleman suplexed Fedor? Fedor. Yeah, and then Fedor got him in a Kimura. Literally, it was like nothing happened.

It was like, and he rolls him over and Kimuras him. It was like, what the hell? The Terminator freaking almost died. When he was in his prime, he was something really special, man. He was so fast. Remember when he was,

he fought Cro Cop in a majority of the fight. Yeah. Backing him up. Majority of the fight was a kickboxing match. Yeah. And he was backing up Cro Cop.

Backing him up, because he was faster. Crazy. He was faster than Cro Cop. And that was when Cro Cop was just at his peak. Yeah. He was a fucking assassin.

Left leg hospital, right leg death. No it's like fucking assassin left leg hospital right leg death or no right leg hospital left leg cemetery yeah remember when he knocked out vandalay oh just dropped him and that head kick that hurt me watching that you know i think that was that was so painful it's like there's a video of him when he fought heath herring and there's a still from that video where you see his shin he dropped uh Heath Herring with a left kick to the liver, and you see his shin like halfway into Heath's body. It just looked like it broke at rips. Just like sunken deep into his body.

He's a big kicker. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Yeah, Heath fought Brock Lesnar when he first came in, didn't he? No. No, Alistair did. Alistair? Alistair fought Brock Lesnar.

Okay. No, no, no, no. Heath Herring did. Heath Herring did. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, Heath Her he? No, Alistair did. Alistair fought Brock Lesnar. No, no, no. Heath Haring did. Heath Haring did. Yeah, Heath Haring did. Heath Haring did and he beat Heath Haring and then Frank Mir tapped him.

Got him in that toehold. I thought you were talking about Crow Hop. That was Gabriel Gonzalez. Back it up so we can see the punt. No, no, no. Yeah. That was Gabriel Gonzalez. Oh, see? Back it up so we can see the punt.

Boom. Bro, he was in trouble. Back that up again. Just do it from the beginning. Do it from... It's okay. Right here. Boom.

Woo. That's the same left hook that... Stylebender? Yeah. Stylebender got clocked with. Exactly. God. Let me find out. The left hook is just Stylebender? Yeah. Stylebender got clocked with. Exactly. God, let me find out. The left hook is just the kryptonite of the greats.

Left hook is the left hook, man, no matter who the fuck you are. Somebody lands one like that. So you said you have this background in kung fu, but do you have someone that you work with that puts together your striking combinations and trains you in all the various disciplines of striking, or do you piece it together yourself? No, I just, you know, we just have fun. You just have fun? Just have fun. Just have fun.

He's got Suge that he's working with. You know, it's like Suge's holding mitts, and they're going through all that. He goes down there and works with Bob down in Houston. Mm-hmm. Bob holds mitts, and then he spars. So you don't have, like, a lead striking coach that, like, puts everything together. No. We tried.

The guy just wouldn't stop drinking and doing his own fucking thing. Oh. You know, just didn't work out. Could have been great. Texas got a lot of fucking talent. So, you know, it just didn't work out. Could have been great. Texas got a lot of fucking talent. It's really interesting. I mean, you got Charles Oliveira who's out of Texas.

He's tough, man. Yeah. Fuck, he's good. Yeah, he's tough. Watching him do that to Tony, I'm like, I can't even believe what I'm seeing. Yeah.

Just dominated every second of that fight. It was bananas. Tony, Tony's, that's a different human. Yeah. I was like, Tony's tough. Tough. It was bananas. Tony, Tony's, that's a different human. Yeah. I was like, Tony's tough. Tough.

Mentally tough. I think, you know, he's like, as far as talent, you know, he's like, I think his toughness

is way above his talent's pay grade. Well, he, first of all, he never gets tired, which is bananas. He's great.

He gets in wars and never gets tired. Right. He's got an iron chin. When Olivero got him in that arm bar and he wouldn't tap on the arm bar and then he tucks it under his arm. Right. Yeah, got an iron chin. When Oliveira got him in that arm bar and he wouldn't tap in the arm bar

and then he tucks it under his arm. Right. Yeah, it's like, how did that not break? It might have. And then, yeah, we were,

and then I was talking to him after and he was, I was like, dude, that shit was crazy. He was like, that amateur ass arm bar. That was amateur hour.

That's what Tony said? I was like, how is that amateur? You almost broke your... Tony is so crazy. I was like, you're right, Tony. He just refuses

it's tough you know mentally super tough eddie bravo trained with him he went to uh when they were out at big bear he said they're running hills and tony would literally lap his training partners like lap them up hills up hills so they'd run to the top of the hill come back down and pass them because they were on their way up the first time. Golly. Just crazy work ethic. Yeah. He said he'd never seen anything like it. He goes, the guy's trained six hours a day. Hard. Yeah. Just can keep going, keep going, keep going.

Mentally tough. That's wild. Yeah. That would have been an interesting fight to see him versus Khabib, but the way Oliveira controlled him on the ground. Yeah, I don't think it would have been interesting. We wanted to know, you know, what would happen

because Tony's dangerous off of his back. You know, like, submitted Kevin Lee. Right, no, he's got good jiu-jitsu. Nasty elbows. Yeah.

You know, he's tough. He's very, very, very tough. I think, I'm more interested in seeing Oliveira fight for the title than anybody in that division. Yeah.

How do you think Oliveira versus Khabib would have went? I don't know. Same thing that would have happened to everybody else. You think so? I think so. You know, it's like Khabib's just too good.

Yeah, I think, you know, Khabib's the go to that division. For me. I believe so. I believe he's the go to that division, but I don't know what would have happened with Oliveira until you see it. See, with Oliveira, like, there are moments, like when Cub Swanson knocked him out, there's moments when you go backanson knocked him out there's moments

you go back in his career and you go oh well this guy's not the greatest and then you see him in some fights like the kevin lee fight we submitted kevin lee right put him out and then kevin wakes up and thinks he's still fighting right um submits tony in a spectacular way and just just he's so technical. Everything's so good. He's never out of position. Everything's so, he doesn't force anything. Everything looks fucking amazing.

His jiu-jitsu looks really good. Oh, amazing. It's amazing. And you go, man, I want to see him fight for the title. I want to see him fight Dustin. I want to see him fight Conor. I want to see him fight whoever else is in that division. I don't think Conor's going to be a contender anymore, though. I think that's it.

I think that's it. You know, it's like, you know, I'm sure he'll sure he'll make money and you know he'll probably fight a few more times if he wants to but it's like um i just you know it's like he you know i think time has probably taken its toll do you think that's it or do you think it's just money and motivation and spending a lot of time out of the sport i mean look he's training for floyd so he's boxing for a long time then he takes two years off he's look, he's training for Floyd, so he's boxing for a long time. Then he takes two years off. He's fighting Khabib.

Right. And then he beats Cowboy, but just swarmed him, you know, swarmed him, jumped on him real quick, hurt him quick, and stopped him. Yeah, Cowboy was always a slow starter. Yeah. You know, it's like I think it's just, you know, maybe it's time. Maybe it's desire. Maybe, I don't know.

I don't have the answer, but I think the time has come and went. It's easy to say that after you see the result, right? Yeah. But what's interesting in that fight is there's moments in that fight where he was having big success. And he hurt Dustin at one point in time with a big left hand. Yeah. But that fucking low calf kick. Yeah.

That low calf kick is a beast. Yeah. That's a... It changed the look on his face yeah i think i think me personally i'm a connor fan so probably i go a little biased on it but i think it's more so uh that time you know that time going to uh boxing and then coming over first fight back fighting khabib and then you take time off and then you come back and then you fight cowboy and then you pandemic comes you get a whole another year off and then you come back and you fight Dustin Poirier.

Let's think about his last few fights. Let's think about his last three losses. You got Floyd Mayweather, right? Arguably one of the greatest boxers of all time. If not, definitely the best defensive boxer of all times, right? Yeah. And one of the smartest boxers of all times as far as how he did his career.

And then you lose to Khabib. You say it's the greatest 155er ever. Even won a round against Khabib. boxers of all times as far as how he did his career and then you lose the khabib yeah you say it's the greatest 155 or ever even won a round against khabib probably drunk off his whiskey as well you know uh then you got the dustin poirier fight i think he's pretty serious about the dustin poirier fight but i think at the same time i think he's thinking bigger than what he was at the time i think he's thinking about boxing pacquiao and doing all these other things that he goes in there with uh my hands are this fantastic and it's time to show you guys that max holloway is not the best at the time. I think he's thinking about boxing Pacquiao and doing all these other things that he goes in there with my hands are this fantastic

and it's time to show you guys that Max Holloway's not the best boxer. He gets chopped at the leg and now it's hard to move. It's hard to move. You can't. It's hard to defend a takedown.

It's hard to grapple. It's hard to box. It's hard to do anything. You know, me personally, I never thought an Irish man could get knocked out until then. You know,

so, fucking crazy night, you know. But, yeah, I don't i don't necessarily think it's over for the guy i just think the guy has to not take a rich person's approach i think he has to take more of an approach that he took back in the day when he was on welfare right go out there and get it stop telling everybody what your training schedule was going to be and just

fucking do what the fucking gym tells you to do well he was still he was pretty fucking rich when he fought eddie alvarez you know he was already a multi millionaire it's not i don't necessarily think it's a rich thing i don't know if that affects him that much but i do think it's inactivity and i do think that dustin got a lot better and dustin's at 145 dustin was depleted and diminished at 155 he's fucking huge he doesn't even look like a 55 or he looks like a 70 yeah he's back his back is fucking gigantic. And Dustin, look at Dustin's series of victories. Look at the people that he beat. Beat the shit out of Max Holloway. Yeah.

Right? That's crazy. But that was at 155, not 45. Right. But still, you still Max Holloway. Yeah, he beat him. He beat him for sure. And beat him with what Max Holloway is best at, which is stand-up.

Right. And you see what Max Holloway did to Calvin Cater. Right. Jesus Christ. Max Holloway's stand-up is outstanding. So he beats him. For whatever reason, he looked a little bit slow in that fight. Max did.

Yeah, I thought Max looked a little bit off when he fought Dustin. Might be getting the weight. Yeah, it's like he was a little bit slower. It's like that last fight, he looked so fast. And some of the other fights, when he fought Alto. But it's also, he's fighting Dustin. Styles make fights. Dustin's fucking good, man. Oh, Dustin's very good. He's fucking good. But it's also, he's fighting Dustin. Styles make fights. Dustin's fucking good, man.

Oh, Dustin's very, very good. He's fucking good. But he's not Khabib. He's not, you know, he's not, you know, he is good. You think Dustin wins the rematch? You think hands down, Dustin again? No, I would never say hands down. You never know.

Because Conor did have moments in that fight. He had moments in the first round. And Dustin said there was a moment in that first round where he got his bell rung and he was in trouble. Now, imagine if Conor connects again. Right. Imagine. I mean, that's how fights are. Loose Conor.

Weird things happen. Loose Conor. Conor, who plays touch butt in the park, is a great Conor. He's moving and he's fucking throwing those spinning heel kicks and shit. The thing is, though, he's heavy on that front leg. Wide karate stance. you know he's always doing this he's always doing this man when that leg is available for that low calf kick that changes everything changes your whole approach and connor is also a guy that's never been known

to like switch back and forth he doesn't like to have left leg forward it's not that's not a common thing for him no so once his leg is getting chewed you know, it's not like he's got that option. Like, he can fight just as good from orthodox. No, and it's probably worse from orthodox now that all he does is work on his boxing. Right. You know, and it's like the things that he probably used to do from a switch stance. You know, different kicks, different setups. It's probably not there anymore.

You know, he's probably a really, really great fighter from that one stance. But now when you take him outside of that stance, he probably you know almost like a c or d great fighter well they're talking about doing that fight again which a lot of people in that division are pissed because they're like well what the you guys are tying up do it championship do it because it's not really the championship because the championship has not even been decided whether or not khabib's going to step down yeah so then there's been talk well they might do it again but they'll do it for the belt no i think charles i think uh charles and chandler for uh even an intern belt just some type of belt charles and chandler makes sense people probably can get mad about that because the chandler's barely coming from bellator over to ufc but come on dude he just knocked out dan hooker yeah he

didn't take him down and smashed him which we all thought he was gonna do he knocked him out one punch with that left hook that we talk about right yeah yeah beautiful long one too long left hook He didn't take him down and smash him, which we all thought he was going to do. He knocked him out. One punch. With that left hook that we talk about, right? Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Long one, too. Long left hook.

Touched him to the body with the right hand and left hooked him. The Bronx guy, Charles, he's been doing great. He deserves to fight for a belt. So him and Mr. Bellator fighting for a belt, I think it sounds good. He makes more money than even Dustin fighting for the belt. Well, does that make sense? Poirier's trying to make money right now. He's not worried about the belt.

Let him make his money. He might have lost to Khabib. Yeah. Yeah, but he lost to Khabib, you know. He almost submitted Khabib. You know, he had Khabib in a really tight guillotine. Yeah, a guillotine. You know, I mean.

He took him in a deep water for sure. I mean, I'm pretty sure Khabib probably farted two times in that guillotine. You know what I mean? Two times. Yeah, when you get choked real hard, it's like... You know what I mean? Then you pass over and you're good to go. What do you do with Justin Gaethje?

Because Justin Gaethje just got... He lost two. He got subbed. His performance... I like Justin Gaethje, but his performance against Khabib was fucking embarrassing. I don't know if it was embarrassing. I don't think it was embarrassing. I think it was embarrassing.

He fucking ran the whole time. If I run like that against Derek Brunson, that's a problem. Don't run from somebody just because they're good. But he's got to keep away to land those leg kicks. Yeah, he was hurting them. The leg kicks definitely hurt him. Don't fucking jab. What's wrong with a jab?

Nobody throws jabs. Don't jab. I want you to remember that. I want you to remember that. You just said that. Thank you. Throw the damn hook. Shit.

Throw the damn jab. Throw the damn hook. Shit. Throw the damn jab. Throw the damn jab. Shit. Set myself up. But yeah, from everything I've seen from Justin Gaethje and then that fight,

I was like, oh, fuck that, dude. You didn't like it. I lost money on that shit. What do you think about Gaethje versus Chandler? That's a good fight. That'd be fun.

That's a good fight. Yeah. That's a good fight. Yeah. That's a good fight. This is my thing. a good fight yeah that's a good fight yeah that's a good fight this is my thing Gaethje just has to go get a win Gaethje go get to win then you know

then he can fight for the title yeah he gets a win he fights for the title you know it's like he looks good well if he beats Chandler that's a big win for him

right Chandler he can't fight Dustin Poirier right now though if Poirier was fighting for the belt right now you would say that Justin Gaethje deserved to fight Dustin Poirier for the, though. If Poirier was fighting for the belt right now, you would say that Justin Gaethje deserved to fight Dustin Poirier for the belt?

Poirier's already knocked that man out. No, I would say if anyone's going to fight for the belt, it should be Dustin Poirier versus Charles Oliveira. That's what I think is for the belt. That makes sense. If Khabib says, I am done 100%, I'm going to relinquish my belt. I think he said that a couple times.

Yeah, but Dana won't let him. Dana keeps waiting. Dana keeps holding on. I'm done. Noinquish my belt. I think he said that a couple times. Yeah, but Dana won't let him. Dana keeps waiting. Dana keeps holding on. I'm done. No, you're not done. If you're Conor, you have to be so butthurt right now. The guy that you just truly don't like. You know what I mean?

Think about it. Dana's letting him keep his belt and do everything that he wants to do. You went up and got the second belt and weren't inactive or anything like that, and he made you give your shit up. You're sitting there just fucking pissed right now, and you can never even rematch him again you just got knocked out khabib's never gonna rematch well khabib is at the peak of his superpowers right now the peak of his superstar status the peak i mean worldwide notoriety he's at the peak you know the way he

smashes connor and the way he taps out gaethje to go from there to just saying that's it yes and Poirier three in a row so and that's three amazing guys in a row so to for him to be in this situation where he's like I'm gone I'm gone that's it so many people are like man but you're you are like that's where the money is like you're you're right there like you could be making tens of millions of dollars per fight for so many fights and he's still in his prime as an athlete. How old is he now? 32. I believe he's 32, maybe 33 at the most.

I would like to see the double champ status. At 55, I don't feel like there's anything else to prove. You know what I mean? It's like he's ran through everybody at 55. I feel what Demetrius Johnson was saying about rematches, but that's a greater risk risk than the reward you know it's like i feel like you know uzman's looking fantastic never lost in the ufc right only one loss on his record he's looking great yeah you know you go out there and you mow uzman

you know it's like now there's no question you don't ask if john jones is better than khabib you know how much taller it's... Usman's a big fella. Yeah, how much bigger is he? He's got muscles that I didn't even know people had. Doesn't matter. You see, like, when I was interviewing him and I'm looking at him on the monitor,

I'm like... I don't like Usman. He's so shredded. I don't like that guy. How do you not like Usman? He went to school in Arlington, right? Arlington, Texas? I believe so.

Right? How often do you hear him claiming it? Like, you know, how often do you hear... He claims Dallas. That's not Arlington, Texas? I believe so. Right? How often do you hear him claiming it? Like, you know, how often do you hear... He claims Dallas. That's not Arlington. Oh. You know, it's like the Dallas Cowboys. They fucking play in Arlington.

So you don't like the fact that he doesn't claim Arlington? Yeah, I'm just a different guy from a different place, you know, and where I'm from. You don't claim where you're from. You don't get respect from me. I just don't. You know, it's like he's a good fighter, know it's like but you know yeah it's good just good just good none of these guys are great these guys all say they're great they all think they're great they know there's like a top of the mountain right i was talking i was talking to stout bender about

this shit okay there's a top of the mountain everybody thinks they're at the top of the fucking mountain there's no such thing as the top of the mountain if you think that you're at the top of the mountain that means your mountain's stopping at a certain spot and somebody else's mountain's gonna get higher than that there's no such thing as the top of the mountain. If you think that you're at the top of the mountain, that means your mountain's stopping at a certain spot and somebody else's mountain's going to get higher than that. There's no such thing as the top of the mountain. Usman's a very good fighter. Great fighter? No. He couldn't go out there and win a boxing match. He couldn't go out there

and out-wrestle the best wrestler. He couldn't go out there and do the best against the best of everybody. You're not the great. He was the NCAA Division II champ, right? Yes. So he won a championship. Right now? Well, I don't know about that. No,

now he's the UFC undisputed welterweight champion of the world. Olympic gold medalist? Well, that's Henry. No. That's Henry.

No, he decided to fight in MMA. Not DC and everyone. No? No. He decided to fight in MMA instead of pursuing wrestling. I mean,

I feel it, but I mean, my personal belief, this is just my belief. It's okay for me to be wrong here. This is my personal belief you know it's like you're nobody's great nobody's nobody's great nobody's fucking great when you retire you can say you had a great career but nobody's great no such thing no such thing as greatness no such thing what about mighty mouse when he's at the peak of his powers fucking fantastic

as good as it gets technically as good as it gets technically he might be like in terms of like ability as a mixed martial arts fighter he might be the best

the best ever cause he would he would just what weight is he he's tiny 125 right yeah 125 yeah it's like

what weight does Gervonta Davis fight at? 30? No. 35? Yeah. Gervonta's 35 because that's too... Who's 25?

Name a 25 boxer. A boxer close to 25. I want Demetrius to go out there and outbox that guy. Well, Mighty Mouse, you know, it's like, I mean, the thing with Mighty is I don't think... I think he's really, really technically really, really good. I don't believe that he's near as athletic as Henry. No. He's just not as natural of an athlete.

That's not a knock against him. It's like we're all given whatever we have or God-given talents, whatever you want to say. I don't believe that he was that physically gifted of an athlete i think that i think he's very very very gifted you know he definitely is above way above average but he's not the same realm of you know it's like like you yeah and then that's it's like this is another reason that's why they can't be great they can't you can't be great nobody has it all john jones great fucking good not great what steroid allegations fucking uh he has a loss on his record for not doing the right move you know it's like at the end of the day does he though it's like that's a lot of horseshit it's still there yeah it's still there i mean they tried

to get that taken there's a couple decisions that i felt like i didn't lose but it's still there you know it's like a loss is a loss. A fuck-up is a fuck-up. Jon Jones, he's probably the most physically gifted athlete. And probably the smartest. It's either you or him. I've never trained with him. I really think that he's probably the most physically gifted.

I bet you Khabib's a fucking different type of athlete, too. Yeah. The way that he can move DC around when they're wrestling, yeah, he has to. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's like a 155-pounder wrestling with a heavyweight. Everybody in the gym says that,

whether it's training with Luke Rockhold, and Rockhold's a light heavyweight, he's throwing him around. Yeah. He's just a freak. Yeah. He's a freak. Yeah.

But, okay, but, you know, it's like as far as, like, you know, like John Jones as far as like, you know, like Jon Jones isn't crazy, crazy fast. You know, it's like, you know, that's his biggest hole is he's like, you know, it's like he's not as fast as some of the other guys and stuff like that. But he knows how to win. Oh, yeah. Jon Jones knows how to win.

Well, and I really believe that he's, you know, very, very physically gifted, you know. What do you think about him at heavyweight? It'll be interesting, right? You know, it like uh we'll just have to wait and see it's like you know he's he's going the big route you know getting big getting strong yeah you know starting to look like his brothers you know it's like uh uh it'll be interesting to watch him see yeah interesting to see how that affects his cardio too like how's it gonna you're carrying around legitimately an extra 30 or 40

pounds of body weight but he's got the frame to carry it oh yeah 100 like you know he's like oh yeah his brothers oh yeah they're all huge monsters he's doing a lot lifting though but what's those legs look like john it's the calves what's those legs look like crazy but he can do deadlifts like he's dead lifting a lot of weight he's obviously got strong legs yeah but it's crazy how small his calves are it doesn't even make sense genetics you But it's crazy how small his calves are. It doesn't even make sense. It's just genetics. You know, it's like either you have them or you don't.

I know. He just doesn't have them. But it's weird. You know? Yeah. But when you think about distributing mass over a 205-pound body when he was a light heavyweight champion, it actually was a great frame. His legs are looking a little bigger.

Yeah, they're definitely looking bigger. yeah he looks way it's like there's that other scene where i've saw him with his shirt off where it's like god damn he's big yeah he's yeah big no he's getting big i mean he's a legit 245 now probably wow you know that's a heavyweight 250 he's a heavyweight he's a legit heavyweight i mean came velasquez when he was at his peak was already yeah yeah was smaller than that. Yeah. That was crazy how Cain's cliff that he fell off of was so steep. Well, it was injuries, man.

I think his mind was so strong that his body just couldn't keep up with his brain. Just injuries. And everything started going south. His knees, his shoulders, his back, his neck. Everything. Just slowly but surely, it all started falling apart. He's a south, his knees, his shoulders, his back, his neck, everything. Just slowly but surely it all started falling apart. He's a beast, though. Dude, when he was in his prime in the UFC, I maintain I've never seen a heavyweight like that guy.

The cardio that he had. It was insane. Didn't make any sense. Didn't look natural. Cardio like a 135-pound guy. It's crazy. It's huge. Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot.

Push, push, push, push, push. Yeah, he'd put a pace on guys and you just see this look on their eyes like it's similar to sometimes when guys fight Khabib they have this look like

they can't believe what's happening to them like they had this idea what the fight was going to be like when they were preparing for it and then here

they are and like it's just they can't keep up they know they can't keep up it's not possible but okay like with Gaethje you know it's like when those leg

kicks hurt him you know and then all of a sudden there was another gear that he hit with that yeah that last leg kick and boom oh fuck i'm not i'm not gonna take any more of those i'm gonna just put you on your head yeah i'm gonna take down this guy and you know yeah amazing yeah like this the sport is so it's so interesting seeing where the sport is now as opposed to where it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago. There's not a sport like it. It's always evolving. Always.

Dude, what do you think these kids are going to be like in 10 years? I know, right? It's going to be fucking crazy. I mean, I was watching a video. We might be able to start talking about great then. Pull up this video from Mick Maynard's account. Mick Maynard has a video on his account of a little girl. This girl looks like she's about three years old.

The one boxing? Yes, and kicking and kicking and throwing kicks. And, I mean, it's just insane. She's so good at like three years old. Throwing perfect kicks, perfect punches, lightning fast. I mean, maybe she's four. I don't know. But she's tiny.

I don't know. Look at this. Look at this kid right here. Give me some volume on this because this is crazy. I don't know. Look at this. Look at this kid right here. Give me some volume on this because this is crazy. I did see this. Look at this. I did see this. Look at this.

Come on, son. I mean, what the fuck? How old is that kid? That's a tiny little kid, man. It's crazy how this coach has a system here. He has a little ball right there for her to kick and everything. Imagine your kid fights this kid and you're thinking, oh, you know, how much do they know?

They're four. This kid sent a four-year-old to the fucking hospital. And there's something about being Russian that scares me extra. It's just the language. That was crazy. They're hard people, man. And you see that? Four-year-old.

That's a crazy technique, though, right? Poor Cam. So when Kevin fought in China, you know, it's like we went over to China. We went to the Great Wall. Kevin didn't go that day. But me and the rest of the corner guys, we headed up to the Great Wall. Shug didn't go that day, but me and the rest of the corner guys, we headed up to the Great Wall. Suge didn't go, but there was another guy with us, and he went with us. So there was three of us, Paul, Justin, and myself.

And we go up to the Great Wall. We go up to, you know, we walk around on it. We'll do that. Then they got a little place that you can have a drink. You know, it's like it's not a bar or anything like that. You can just buy souvenirs, but you can also buy alcohol. And we were just having a Coke. And, um, I think, um, I was having a Coke and the other guys were having maybe a beer and this guy, um, comes over, we're, we're going to take a picture by the great wall. And, uh, this, this Russian asked to take the

picture and it's like, you know, I'll take the picture for you. He doesn't speak hardly any English, stuff like that, but he's with a group. And so he takes our picture, and we sit back down, and I was like, you know what? That guy wanted to talk. So I get up, and I start talking to the group of them. And sure enough, he did. His son had trained MMA. He saw our ears.

He saw what we were wearing. And so we end up talking to him. And so pretty soon, they bust out the vodka, and it's like, so we're you know they bust out the vodka and and it's like so we're getting drunk at the great wall of china uh with russians and it's like it's a group big group of them and it's like yeah so we're we have a few shots and it's like you know it's like a tradition i guess you know it's like whoever pours the um vodka they pour the whole time so it's and that he went and it was a guy that took our picture.

You know, he said he's pouring, everybody, until the alcohol runs out. And then we ride one of those little things down and it's like, you know, and then we go have more drinks, you know. And it's like, you know, Russians are just like us. You know, it's like, they just want to have a good time and have fun.

And, you know, it's like, they were excited. They were there with some UFC fighters. We were there, you know, excited. We were with some were there with some UFC fighters we were there you know excited we were with some business guys from from Russia Coach Jim Modis

they were very happy to be with Russians he was so stoked it was awesome it was awesome when you wow

wow oh yeah she kicked my son's ass vasi. for people listening vasi.lisa v-a-s-i.lisa 2014 that's pretty cool so she must have been born in 2014

fucking talented crazy crazy how talented she can't even been training for 6 years that's what's funny she's 6 years old it's like you only got 6 years to be that good isn't it weird how kids learn shit so quick so quick do you feel like how old are you now kevin uh 28 do you feel any different in the way you learn things now versus the way you learned things when you were 15

yeah yeah honestly yeah i can i noticed the difference you know i mean i retained i think i retained things better in a way but at the same time i think uh I don't feel like I do certain things as fast as I used to. I don't know if that makes sense. That's crazy because you're not even in your prime. No. You're like four years from your prime. I can still feel the difference between things, though. Yeah?

A, the peanut butter. Shelly did it! It's the fucking Pop-Tarts, man. It's not the peanut butter. The nutritionists are pulling their hair out what is he saying it's not peanut butter so if any nutritionists want to talk to me about this you know holla at me hit joe up first though let him know i was right all right please do please do imagine if it was hey what's that thing over there man that little clock it's a clock yeah a gentleman named

he's got a Instagram TGT Studios and I had him this is the second one he built this one for the old studio back in LA

and then he built this one for this one so how you like in Texas I love it love it love it that's good love it

you know I'm a California guy myself I love it here as well. Well, I love what California used to be. Yeah. But I know California is not California anymore. It's not the same place. Like, LA is not the fucking same place.

First of all, nothing's open. You can't train. You can't do a comedy show. You can't go to a restaurant. You can't sit inside at a restaurant. There's like all the things that I used to love doing, you can't do. It's just, and homelessness is off the charts. Poverty's off the restaurant. There's like all the things that I used to love doing you can't do. It's just, and homelessness is off the charts. Poverty's off the charts.

The fucking streets, you drive down Hollywood, things are boarded up and there's tents everywhere. They fucked that city up to almost beyond repair. Yeah. Are you training now?

I haven't been. I haven't been since I got here. You haven't? I've been lifting weights and hitting the bag and stuff like that, but no jiu-jitsu. No, but I want to. I just have an issue i'm trying to deal with with one of my knees i

have a pretty bad meniscus tear that i've been getting stem cell shots into and it feels pretty good right now yeah my my goal right now so we're here in february i think by april i think i'm gonna start training again you're gonna go to on it yeah we have a 10th planet over here and on it and then also my friend todd white he has a Machado school. Nice. So you're going to go the Machado way? Well, that's where I have a black belt from John Jocks. Okay.

I have to train there. There you go. It's my lineage. And Todd's a good friend of mine, too. He's been on the podcast before, too. You know, he's one of John Jocks' black belts. And he's got a great place out in Dripping Springs. Nice.

What's the name of... There's a lot of jiu-jitsu out here, though. The whiskey that... What's the name? Bruce does. Yeah, of jiu-jitsu out here, though. The whiskey that... What's the name? Bruce does. Yeah, you had it on your show. Bruce Buffers? No, no, no.

Bruce Conti is a friend of ours in Fort Worth. Yeah. And they got the Texas Silver Star whiskey. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We've had that. Yeah, it's great.

I thought you meant Bruce Buffer. Bruce Buffer has his own whiskey. Does he really? Yeah, he does. Yeah, it's called Puncher's Chance. Puncher's Chance. That's awesome. Tiger on the label.

Yeah, he gave me a bottle of it. I haven't tried it, though. You haven't tried it? I love that guy. Yeah, he's fun, man. He's always so nice. Nobody gets me jazzed up for a fight like that guy. When he's introducing, Kevin Hollen! It's like a fucking cherry, man.

He gets so red. I mean, he fucking gives it. He doesn't have anything left in the tank. He drains the gas when he fucking introduces you. It's awesome. I love the pride lady, though, that screams. Oh, yeah. But I didn't know what the fuck she was saying.

I had no idea. See, I understand Bruce Buffer. When Bruce Buffer is, look at him, man. I mean, come on, dude. And plus, who's more stylish? Like, the guy's always got the sharpest suits. Look at that fucking jacket. Yeah, that guy is always ready.

So sharp. When he did the 360, it was awesome, though. Dude, we talked him into that. There's a whole video. There's a whole video of me explaining how I'm going to talk him into doing a 360. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I worked on it for like a year.

He would do this like he would interview he was introducing fighting out of the blue corner he'd do this but we he was doing like a 180 called the buffer 180 i go have you considered doing a 360 so there's a whole video of us convincing him to do the buffer 360 this is just the video but there's a video of me talking him into it and the video it's like for a year i was trying to get him to do the buffer 360. This is just the video, but there's a video of me talking him into it. And the video, it's like for a year, was trying to get him to do the 360. So he decided UFC 100, the big one,

he was going to do a 360. So as he interviews Brock Lesnar, he does a 360 spin. Like he's doing a 360 roundhouse kick. He jumped and stepped. It's pretty wild, man. You can watch him do it. His antics, this is the one where me talking him into it.

The buffer 180 to the buffer 360. So I'm buttering him up. I'm like, come on, bro. You can do this. This is a long-ass time ago, man. This is 2009. Is that what it was? Yeah.

So I'm like, man, I'm telling you. Look, I'm wearing a tap-out shirt it was so I'm like man I'm telling I'm wearing a tap out shirt see he eventually did it man fucking 360 do it again no no well he fucked up his ACL during one of his introductions. He blew his ACL out. Yeah. No, I'm not bullshitting. For real. He only has one ACL right now.

Yeah. I fought my whole career with one ACL. Really? Yeah. I blew it out in the Ultimate Submission Showdown. I was in the finals against David Adlon, and he had me in the lockdown, and I was just pushing forward and tore my own ACL. I lost my ACLl in lockdown too

i was sideways yeah oh and instead of like being like leg like this my leg was sideways my friend will he just extended the lockdown i heard like a carrot yep and just it didn't even hurt it was just weird i was like i didn't know what was going on and i actually kept rolling and i i thought my knee just popped and then i was in my office moving some boxes around, and my leg just went, what? Did you get it fixed? Ah, shit. Yeah, I got it fixed.

You never got it fixed? No, I never got it fixed. To this day? No, I don't have an ACL. Oh, my God. But doesn't it give out on you? No. No.

It's the only thing that was, when I'd throw my right hand, it would hyperextend. Yeah? Like this. That's it? Other than that. Which knee? Your right knee?

My right knee. Wow. So it doesn't bother you at Yeah? Like this. That's it? Which knee? Your right knee? My right knee. Wow. So it doesn't bother you at all? Not really. It's better than my left knee. What? Yeah. What's wrong with your left knee?

I don't know. It's like nothing. So is this showing him doing it? Oh, that's it right there. Oh, my God. Look at this. Oh, shit. He's like, oh, what the fuck is this?

Yeah, he blew his shit out. He kept performing. He sucked it out. Look at this guy. What is he doing? He's doing karaoke. He heard it doing karaoke? That's so much less impressive. I thought he heard it yelling. No, he was performing for a pump-up week.

Oh wow, wow he blew his ACL out yeah that does suck but he never got it fixed so he can't really do that he can't jump up and and I kills my own so I thought that anymore kills your vertical so you just never bothered to get it fixed no I blew it out I think in 2002 or 2003 whatever you guys so was. That is so crazy. Yeah. So it doesn't fuck with your meniscus, though? Because your knee is less...

I had a surgery to clean it out, but I told them, don't fix it. Why? Well, because I was fighting. It was right at the end of my fighting career, and it's like, that's a year off. And I just didn't want to take the time. I've already fought all these fights. All my UFC fights were without an ACL. So, you know. I know Rico Rodriguez is the same thing.

Yeah, his would come out. Justin doesn't have an ACL either. Gaethje? Gaethje doesn't? Gaethje has one leg's fucked up. Wow. Yeah, I remember Rico. Rico would have to shimmy it, get it to pop back in.

But my worry would be that you're chewing your meniscus up because of the laxity. Yeah, I mean, they went in and they trimmed it and fixed it, did a scope. And I haven't had problems with it since then. They said I would, but according to them, I should have had it replaced by now. And you train jiu-jitsu, but do you do other things as well? Do you lift in weights or running or anything like that? I run. I run.

I lift weights some you know i do a lot of body weight stuff now yeah but i i don't i you know and i run i'm a fair weather runner i don't run yeah when it's cold out i'll go outside and run when it's nice out but i'll go train jiu-jitsu i'd rather do that than anything yeah well it's it's fun yeah it's fun yeah i mean it's addicting yes i it's fun. I mean, it's... It's addicting. I just can't believe that you could compete

at such a high level with no ACL and that you could still train to this day. Scrambles and shit? No, no problem. Yeah, he scrambles good. No problems.

It's annoying. Super annoying. Yeah, but the neck is a problem. The neck is a problem. The neck's a real problem. And have you looked into other methods of working with the discs? They do stem cell injections into the disc now.

Yeah, I've tried some stuff. Have you? I feel like I don't feel like anything helped. I had stem cells injected into it. I didn't feel like it helped. How long ago was this? A few months. Yeah, it wasn't that long ago.

It wasn't very long ago. Oh, you've got to give it a chance. Yeah, that's the problem. Yeah, he gets something done and then it's like... I waited the whole time that they told me to. I waited the whole time. 30 hours. Yeah.

Just like three weeks they told me I had to wait. Yeah. And it didn't help. Nothing. He waited a week and then he went back to like teaching, you know? And he wasn't rolling, but he was like really aggressively holding people like this, you know? It's like,

it's not jiu-jitsu, but it's jiu-jitsu. And I agree that it's like, you know, when you show stuff, you know, it's like you do end up using your head and it's definitely hard on it.

It's just hard not to, you know? It's like, I can have somebody else teach, but what if they don't do it right? You know, it's like stuff like that. They never do it right.

They never do it right. And Travis looks, he's like, no, no do it right? You know, it's like stuff like that. They never do it right. Yeah. They never do it right. And Travis looks like, no, you're big toes in the wrong area. Let me just show you how it can be done. You know, it's like, yeah, it's like, okay, coach, you just want to roll. Well, I remember Charles McCarthy

rolled with you when you guys were on the Ultimate Fighter and he said, he goes, he compared your jiu-jitsu to Ricardo Laborio. Yeah. He was like, Jesus Christ. He said, his jiu-jitsu is Ricardo Laborio. Yeah. He was like, Jesus Christ.

He said, his jiu-jitsu is ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah, Charles was nice in that situation. Ricardo Laborio, for the guys that don't know, it's like this is ADCC champ. He won a bunch of other stuff too. He's an all-time great. Yeah, he's amazing.

Amazing legend. I was there when he when he won won the championship he barely spoke any english at the time that's crazy because he's so fluent now yeah it's like you know it's like i met him at the frankfurt airport you know it's like and you saw the brazilians and i walk up and nobody spoke english at the time mario sperry did and then he spoke a little bit and so and he was happy to practice his english on me and and i ended up talking to him you know they gave me like an eight hour layover in that stupid airport it was terrible but uh you know but yeah he was super nice nice nice guy do you miss competing at all yeah i like you know i

miss fighting you know i miss fighting i miss fighting in mma more than you miss jujitsu competition yeah i mean it's like um getting old You know, it's like I wish I could still do the things that I could do physically. You know, it's like, but that's okay. You know, time moves on. You know, it's not my time now. It's guys' time, like Kevin's. You know, and this is fun too. Do you enjoy coaching?

Well, especially when you get a talent like Kevin. Yeah, I love teaching jiu-jitsu. I love teaching jiu-jitsu. I love, you know kevin's special you know it's like because it is you know it's like kevin's you know uh kevin's just special you know it's like compared to coaching a lot of people it's difficult but it's kevin's a lot of fun so all right i'm super happy to have kevin sometimes do you feel fortunate that you ran into travis luther i mean you could have walked into any dojo you know yeah i'm super happy to have Kevin sometimes. Do you feel fortunate that you ran into Travis Luter? I mean, you could have walked into any dojo, you know?

Yeah, I'm super lucky, super blessed, you know what I mean? It's like, like you said, could have walked into anywhere. Yeah. And it's like, who knows what life would have been, but it's like, my life is what it is today. I think a big part because of where I ended up at, you know? And it's like, yeah, Travis's gym's done a lot for me, a whole lot for me. Well, it's just, I mean, when you think about guys in America, particularly, you know, we're talking about, what, 13 years ago when you first started? Yeah.

You can't do any better, you know? You just get different. Different, yeah, different. Different's a good way to describe it. Yeah, I mean, there's elite high-level jiu-jitsu, and there's maybe a dozen of those spots at that time at least. It's more so now. It's kind of spread out now even more.

Yeah, but it's – okay, like in Brazil. You know, like Brazil was the mecca. You know, it's like in the 2000s especially. It's like in the 90s. You know, you're going to have jiu-jitsu that's just really, really hot. And then a lot of those guys moved here. And then some of them have created their own where it's really, really good. Some of them haven't.

Some of these guys, it's like the Atos. There's so – Henzo's Gym in New York is really, really good. Incredible. Yeah. There's so many good places to go train in America now that it's actually arguably probably better than Brazil. You know, it's like because a lot, you know, almost all the good guys came here. There's still really good guys in Brazil, you know, and I'm sure you can find amazing

training there. But it's like, you know, American training is really, really good now. It's pretty damn good. You know what's crazy to me? That Oliveira doesn't speak English. Isn't that nuts? He's been here forever. He lives in Houston. Really? Yeah. He's been here for a long time.

Where does he train at all? It's not a big-name gym. It's not like a very famous place. There's two different schools of thought, right? There's one school of thought, join a place like American Top Team. You're around a bunch of assassins. You get better. And then the other school of thought is get individual treatment from a really highly specialized gym that focuses on you and keep

getting better and better and better and then you reach this elite level like i don't know who's right and who's wrong you know i've i've been to like tiger muay thai in thailand you know and they got really really good trainers but there's just so many people, you know, it's like, and it's, it would be very hard to figure out even who you are, you know, being there and stuff like that. Being in a smaller gym, you know, there's good things, but, you know, it's just finding one that's, you know, you have good people. And the other thing is, is figuring out, you know, it's like, you know, like trying to figure out how to coach Kevin is really, really, I'm still trying to figure it out you know it's like what's he doing wrong no it's not it's not it's not it's me no it's like

you have to talk to kevin in a different way than you talk to other people it's like i'm very very honest um you know if you if i feel like you're doing something wrong i'll tell you um you know it's like and you know with some people that's not always the best option with kevin kevin's gotten you know thicker skin thicker skin through the years because he had to. But it's like even ideas. It's like, hey, I want to go do this. And it's like learning how to talk to Kevin and making sure that he's going to be on board with where we're going to go and stuff like that. When the leg lock game took over jujitsu,

how much did you guys have to adapt? Okay. So the leg lock game, there's been two phases to that. You know, the leg lock game of the nineties to the early nineties. So the leg lock game was really, really big.

I was doing leg locks a lot. Like when I went to ADCC, two of my matches to get there, to go to, when I won the national tournament to, to go to ADCC in 99 i won two of my matches with leg lacks and then uh um and then i uh lost uh my first match against comprito um on a bullshit decision i felt like i won the match you know it's like uh you know whatever it's like they um but i went for a whole bunch of heel hooks. And the guy just wouldn't tap.

Caprito is long. It's like, you know, he's about as tall as Kev and flexible and just wouldn't tap. I thought I had him a whole bunch of times in the heel hooks. And so I took him out. I stopped doing leg locks. Yeah, it's like I was like, there's going to be guys that you're going to run into that just are not going to tap to these. We had some guys that were better at leg locks than I was that were training in Dallas at the time.

And so I just went to straight defense. And it's like, I'm just not going to be there. And so it's very, very difficult for you to catch me in a heel hook or a knee bar and stuff like that. It's just difficult. You know, it's not impossible and not anything like that. But it's like, it's very, very very difficult because i just concentrated on on defense um now the second coming of the leg locks is like the dean lister you know so it's like you know because there wasn't really

a lot of people doing leg locks from then till lister and now you have gordon ryan doing them you know but lister you know it's like he's a guy that fought in the ufc you know it's like he won adcc he won not his weight class at adcc but he won the the open uh on leg locks you know he got beat early in the day and adcc is a weird tournament because the matches are so long and the guys get so tired and the rules are different and stuff like that and so he gets into the open and he starts subbing people with leg locks and it's like um and so he gets into the open and he starts subbing people with leg locks and it's like um and and he did really really good with that and then you get guys like gordon ryan who's come along and and they've you know they've you know his leg locks are really really good you know i don't rank him as far as like there's lots of people that rank him like

you know the best ever no you know it's like you have guys like john jock who submitted his way through adcc uh you have guys like um hadja gracie who submitted his way through both his weight class and the open and guess what he also did it in in the gi that same year or either that it was the other years because it was 2007 or 2008 he submitted his way through uh in 2007 he submitted his way through. In 2007, he submitted his way through ADCC. And then he also submitted his way through IBJJF Worlds. You have to admit, though, Gordon Ryan is, what, 26? Yeah. How old is he? He's something like that.

26, dominating. Yeah. He's won Abu Dhabi how many times? Three times? No, twice. Twice. He's only been twice? Yeah.

Okay. I mean, he's tapping and he and he won his weight class he won his weight class and he it's like he's he's tapped a lot of people but like uh shanji uh robero uh um you know it's like uh what two 280 cc's ago when he was in the semi-finals he went against uh shanji and it was a judge's decision. And then he won the finals. It's like, yeah, yes, he did submit Cyborg. Yes, he did submit some of these

other guys, but it's like he won a lot of decisions on the way through that tournament. He didn't submit his way through. Hadja Gracie did. It's like he submitted his way not only through IBJJF Worlds, but he also did it through ADCC on the same year or maybe it was a year off. No denying Hadja Gracie's greatness. IBJJF Worlds, but he also did it through ADCC on the same year,

or maybe it was a year off. Well, there's no denying Hodge Gracie's greatness. Yeah, and I'm not saying that Gordon Ryan's not really, really good. I'm just not saying that he's in the same level. It's a silly argument anyway. It's a weird argument, but he's got a lot of room to grow. I mean, that fucking guy keeps going. He's got a lot of room to grow.

I was there when he lost right before he put on all the weight. And he put on a lot of weight in about three, four months period. I lost, I think it was Lucas Lepre at the ADCC trials. I had a guy that was competing in the trials. And so I watched that match in person. And he just wasn't as good then he came back and he's 30 40 pounds heavier and he wins adcc and it's like what the fuck happened you know it's like how do you do this in this four months of time it's like i've been lifting

weights for a long time it's like i can't do that yeah there's probably some mexican supplements involved i had a guess i like how you put that yeah that's what i always like to call him because uh you could go down to tijuana and buy steroids at a pharmacy so when when dudes get juiced up in jujitsu i would say he's on the mexican supplement mexican supplements walk across the border yeah walk right back across yeah yeah look good legitimately oh look man he's undeniably looks good but so have you guys adjusted your leg lock game because of like the whole death squad everything everything stayed the same it's like i'm still doing everything the same it's like it's just you know it's like uh don't get caught you know it's like um that's my philosophy with it is

it's like we have our guys in the gym that are good at leg locks and then and then you know biggest thing is just don't get caught and you know it's like is it gonna happen yeah you're gonna get caught sometimes it's like it's like jujitsu it's like arm bars you know particularly the biggest thing is just don't get caught in them. You know, it's like, is it going to happen? Yeah, you're going to get caught sometimes. It's like jiu-jitsu. It's like arm bars. Particularly with the gi, right? I mean, Jesus Christ. Yeah, there's so many ways to lose. It's like you're going to get caught.

It's like if you're training and you're not getting tapped, you're not probably training in the right gym. Yeah. You know, it's like Kevin's going to tap me. It's like it's going to happen. His goal for the year is for me not to tap me. It's like it's going to happen. His goal for this year. He's a blue moon. Yeah, his goal for the year is for me not to tap him. That's his main goal on the year is he doesn't want me to tap him. I haven't done it yet this year.

It's like I've rolled with him plenty. I haven't tapped him. He's rolled with me more this year than he was last year. He's trying to get that goal. I'm like, fuck this. It's just such a fortunate situation to be able to train train with someone that's at high level though yeah it's really nice it's everything yeah it makes a big difference well you gotta know right like some guys they don't get to train with someone that's that high level you don't know what

it's like to get smushed no you know no you know like when he went out there with jock ray he wasn't scared you know he's like i'm gonna go out there i'm gonna i'm gonna fuck him up well okay i want you to stay on your feet stay on your feet no no i i'm gonna fuck him up yes okay god damn it kevin let's stay on our feet stay on our feet first thing he does get taken down i'm like oh fuck oh fuck he's doing good oh this is great it looks really good back on his feet looking good get taken down damn it oh still good oh fuck he's asleep it's like what the hell happened you know that's about how long it took. That was crazy. It was a crazy fight.

That was a cementing moment for you. To knock out a guy like Jacare and to do it in such an unorthodox way, doing it off your back like that, that's an undeniable moment. Yeah, it was pretty cool. But things like that don't happen all the time. So as long as you go out there and you can make something special happen against another high-level guy, then we might be talking about something. But like I said, the last one doesn't happen all the time. So as long as you go out there and you can make something special happen against another high-level guy, then we might be talking about something.

But like I said, the last one doesn't happen that often. So I have to do it two or three more times. So the Derek Brunson fight, which is coming up soon, what are your thoughts on Derek Brunson? I mean, we talked about it a little bit earlier, but he's obviously a veteran. He's obviously a guy who's been around. He's fought Stylebender. The Shabazian fight, his last fight, I thought he looked fucking fantastic. Yeah.

And Shabazian, that was an interesting situation, right? You got this kid who's 21 years old, super dangerous, real fast hands, look great, but never really been tested against a veteran. And then you saw, wasn't really ready for that yet. Yeah. Brent's is good. His wrestling's good. His stand-up's a little wild.

He hits hard. You know, it's like, it's going to be a fun fight, but it's like, you know, the problem is, it's like when he gets in there with the top-level guys, you know, he hasn't had a lot of success, and we're just going to find out if Kevin's as top-level as I think he is. You know, it's like...

You seen the Jenga? Yeah. Yes. You know, that part where he You seen the Jenga? Yeah. Yes. You know that part where he goes, you know, rude boy, there's only one out of 10,000 niggas and you'd add one out of 10,000. I'm that one out of 10,000.

We're going to find out, you know. It's closer to like one in a million. It's like, it's just different. Do you feel like this is like a pivotal moment in your career? It can be. It can be. It very much can be. But me and Derek Brunson, we have a lot of words back and forth. Do you feel like this is Like a pivotal moment In your career It can be It can be It very much can be

But me and Derek Brunson We have a lot of words Back and forth Do you Yeah No no no It's gonna be a night Kevin fucks with Derek Brunson

Constantly It's like But Kevin does this to everybody He's in everybody's He's starting with you He's in He's in Stylebender's inbox He's in everybody's inbox

And he's fucking Do you DM these guys Yeah yeah All the time Do they go back and forth Oh yeah Some of them all the time really it does some of them who goes back and forth with you mike perry's nice enough to go back and forth with me does he i like that guy he does he's fun he fucks with him he fucks with him and then you know brunson brunson started it though he told me he's gonna slam me on my head so fuck him and then uh you know it's

just there's a few of that was what he opened with? Yeah I'm gonna slam you on your head? Yeah Chamayaf doesn't go back and forth with me So that hurts my feelings I don't know He says he's about that life That kid ain't about that life

I see him at the PI And I walked in I was like That's my best friend He was like You wanna be friends now? I was like Fuck no

I was like never I was like We're best friends without being friends They were like Kevin there was a lot of them They were gonna jump you And I was like no I drove out here I got dildos in the car I was like, we're best friends without being friends. They were like, Kevin, there was a lot of them. They were going to jump you. And I was like, no. I drove out here.

I got dildos in the car. I was ready to fuck them. You know? So that boy's not about that life. Don't you think that, I mean, it's very unfortunate that he's suffering from COVID, that he's got this long-term situation where apparently, when I've talked to doctors about this, I'm like, what is going on with that? And they said, when you're training really hard

and then you're breaking down your immune system and then you get COVID, you can get it real bad. And when you get it really bad and then you don't take care of yourself in terms of like, don't give yourself adequate time to recover, you go back in before you're really fully recovered. And also you're not taking care

of all the inflammation issues that you have with your diet, with your supplements. You hit a situation like him where he had to pull out of Leon Edwards' fight. Imagine being fucking Leon Edwards. One of the best fighters in the world can't get a fight. Can't get a fight. Well, he's fighting Bilal. Finally.

Finally, Bilal steps up right after winning. I offered to step up the last time. I offered to cut the extra weight. Kevin was in there. Inboxes again. Hey, I'll fight him. I inboxed Leon plenty of times. He doesn't respond.

And the thing about it is a lot of these guys can say before that I didn't have the followers so they didn't see the message. Now I have the followers so you're seeing the fucking message.

You're just choosing not to respond. You know what I mean? It's like, if we're being real here, these guys, half these guys who claim that they're fighters,

they're fighters because it pays a bill and it looks good online. It looks good on TV. Is that the case or are they being calculated about what risks they take? You're not a fighter if you're calculating risk. Really, though?

Do you think that's true? I mean, if you're a first-year fighter. They're martial artists. He's talking about other kinds of fighting. He's talking about other kinds of fighting. He's talking about life. He's not talking about his career right now. He's talking about the mindset.

For Kevin, all that stuff kind of, you know, melts together a little bit. You know, it's like, he's, you know, it's like,

he's not necessarily, you know, saying that, yeah, these guys are for sure fighters, but they're not real fighters in Kevin's mind. I understand what you're saying.

Yeah. They won't, you know, it's like, I get happy when I see these guys step up last second for a fight. Like, seeing Bilal step up for that fight,

I'm like, okay, there you go. Don't fucking complain about how you're not getting upper fights when you don't really put yourself in that situation and get upper fights. You know? When Shamayev knocked out Mirshart, I was like, holy shit. Yeah.

Knocked him out with one punch. I'm like, okay, now I want to see. If he can do that, I want to see, like, how does he fare against Gala Q? How does he fare against other, like, elite 170 or 185ers, which is weird, too, right? That he's just bouncing back and forth between those two weight classes. He's bouncing back and forth to the fights that make the most sense. So he'll go to 70 for a fight that makes sense. He'll come back up to 85 for a fight that makes sense.

You know, nothing wrong with it. Good management. Fighters who fight like that, very smart fighters. I tip my hat off to them, you know. Them and their management and their coaches, that's great. That's not me. I'd never be that. So props to those guys.

But it's like if you go to 70 because this fight makes sense for you, smart move. You go back to 85 because this fight makes sense to you, smart move. I was impressed by the way he knocked out Mirshart just because he took the smartest route, which was keeping it standing. And I thought the guy who liked to grapple was going to take it to the ground. But knocking out Mearshart after Mearshart's coming off of losses, you know what I mean?

And I know I smacked him a couple times. I know Deron Wynn smacked him a couple times, you know what I mean? And I know Ian Heinrich ultimately landed the last smacking. I think if you add up those three people who have decent power and have been smacking him at 85, the head's just not the same as it used to be. He's even fought Di aguasantos right yeah you know it's like you can't fight all

these killers and take these type of headshots and think that you're going to be okay if chamaya has a little bit of pop of course it's going to look good i mean smart props to him for taking the smart program every time you go out there and fight a guy you know it's like we both fought john phillips i went out there and stood stood and banged with john phillips coach told me in the second round go out okay you already banged with John Phillips. Coach told me in the second round, you already look good in the first round, go out there in the second round, take this guy down, choke him out. He's obviously not trying to go away from punches. Chemaev went out there, took him down, punched on him, punched on him,

punched on him, subbed on him. Smart, smart fighter. Props to him. But what happens when you can't go out there and take an easy, smart route? What happens when a fighter is really fucking good? That's why I wanted to, like you said, I wanted to see the Leon fight. I want to see that fight bad you know i was fascinated by that fight i would have took the neil magny fight him versus neil magny would have been i would have been happy with that you can slowly work your way up i think he you know it's

like after seeing neil magny being done the way he got done against you know michael kiesta i think that chamayev could have got the job done especially being a big 170er but it's like it's like you know it's i don't know and then you sit up here and you say it's sad because he has covid and shit like that but they said i had covid you know and if we're supposed to be athletes you know it's like yeah but you obviously had a very mild oh you know of it i mean he's he's had it for my girl had it pretty good months now my girl had it pretty good and i was fucking her the whole time you know and it's like so you know it's like it's like we all take it different, you know. Different fighters, different heart, you know.

Don't claim to have the heart if you ain't got it. Don't you think it's just like a disease, though? I mean, some people just have a harder time with a disease. The flu sucks, you know. Michael Jordan still went out there and won, you know. Difference, you know. I understand what you're saying. Yeah, it's a bummer.

It's a bummer that we don't get it. Because it was so exciting. You watch him. He's fighting back-to-back. He's trying bummer. It's a bummer that we don't get it. Because it was so exciting. You watch him. He's fighting back to back. He's trying to fight. He's scheduling two fights at the same time. You know. Yeah.

I'm just sad because I really wanted to see the guy fight again. Yeah. Just sad. Also, you wanted to fight him. No. Not me. I don't want to fight that guy. He's a monster, bro.

He's undefeated. Smashing everybody. He's mini Khabib. I don't want no problems with that guy. You know. That's not true. He was fucking with him the whole goddamn time over there yeah you were asking for it when i interviewed well they had they had kevin edwards with him too you know it's like kevin edwards with him and then

they he said something to kevin pissed kevin off then kevin's you know angry but the boss the boss has said on interview that we're in two different weight classes and that we'd probably never meet up. So I'm assuming that he's staying at 70 and I'm staying at 85. And, you know, it's like, you know, maybe one day when he, you know, gets over being a little tired, he can get back in there and get some fights in and we'll be okay. Are there any other guys in the division that you want to test? Like, did you look at a guy like Yoel Romero and you want to test yourself against him?

I asked Yoel Romero. The next thing I know, he's cut. You know, it's like, they were talking about, hey, you want to fight somebody in the top 15? I'm like, shit, give me Yoel Romero. Nobody else will fight him. Why do you think they cut him?

Is that crazy? It has to be money, right? It has to be. He was just making too much money and he's like, did you want to watch him fight after he fought? Always. I didn't.

After that last loss, I was like, okay, I don't want to watch him fight. Stopping your fight? I always want to watch him fight. No, the one after. After that last loss, I was like, okay, I don't want to watch him fight. The Stalbender fight? I always want to watch him fight. No, the one after that, that he went up to, was it 205 where he went to? Or was it the Stalbender fight? I just think Stalbender was his last fight, wasn't he? Yeah, Stalbender

was his last fight at UFC. You know, it's like he's a fun, exciting guy when he goes forward. I hate it when he fucking doesn't want to go forward. Well, with Stalbender I think he felt like he had to stay put. But when he just stood still and Stalbbender came forward and then he blasted him with a big left hand and you see stylebenders look in his eyes like oh yeah right like this is dangerous like this is fast he's so fast man luke rockhold said he feels like he's made out of metal well didn't what's his name say that too the the whitaker didn't whittaker i think

whitaker said that too yeah it was like it was like you know he said the difference in between the first and the second time he fought him he said it's like he's a different kind of metal the second time it's like what the man yeah he's a he's a tank a tank man that guy's story though it's like about cuba and stuff like that this is you know that that's that's all rough up do you know the story of him being examined by the doctor do you realize remember that story? Dana told me the story. He goes, they bring him to the doctor after he gets a fractured orbital. I think it was in the Whitaker fight. He's got some sort of a mild orbital fracture.

Yeah. The doctor calls the UFC up and goes, where did you find this guy? And he goes, what do you mean? He goes, he's a fucking specimen. And they're like, yeah, he's amazing, right? He goes, no, no, no, no, no. No, like, we've never seen anything like this before. He goes, I've been examining people for decades.

He goes, the tendons in his eyes are three times larger than a normal person's. It's like everything is weird. Everything's weird. The way he's built is just bizarre. And, you know, we were talking about it, and the Cubans did some wild shit. Like, during, like, the whole Soviet days. Who knows what the fuck they were doing with their athletes. Right.

They might have been, you know, doing some wild experiments and engineering. The Russians did the same thing with Karelin. Karelin? They always called him the experiment. Well, his parents are short. Yes. Yeah, they're like 5'5". And he's built like a fucking, like a superhero.'s six five and it's like he looks like he's

you know 200 pounds but he's actually 270 pounds it's just proportional yeah it's like it moves like a cat but it's like who the hell can pick up another freaking heavyweight and throw him over their shoulder like that like nothing it's just gone oh yeah it's just this famous image yeah i put it on my instagram i that i have i look at this picture every six months to remind myself what a pussy i am dude it's him just fucking have you ever seen the photo

of corella it's the scariest photo ever of a human you know it's like i want to see yeah we'll find it just him lifting these guys i mean he made his heavy weight yeah he was heavyweight. He was 270-ish. Oh, he didn't fight anymore?

There he is. That's the picture. That's him. So these guys would flatten out. This is the move. This is the move that he's doing. He looks like a demon. Yeah, they would flatten out so that he couldn't pick them out

because other guys couldn't pick them out when, you know, they're 300 pounds and they're flat on their stomach. But he would hoist them up in the air like they were nothing and then dump them on their head. I mean, his record is 802. Damn. 800-something and two. Think about this in wrestling.

In international competition, he's 800 wins. And one of those two was Rulon Gardner, and it was just because they changed the rules, and when you break the hands, it counted as a point. So he broke the grip. It was an overtime. It was an overtime. It was an overtime. So you get to start with this grip.

And if they break the grip, and then he went to here. But all the years that he was wrestling, his whole career, it was okay. You could do this. And it wasn't a point. So it was just a bullshit point. And now it's like that's nothing to take away from Rulon. You know, it's like, I mean, this is really, really cool that he won that Olympic match and stuff like that. But it's still a technicality bullshit.

You know, it's like, and that's his last match that he ever did. You know, it's like, and now he's just in Russia, happy. What is he doing now? I think he's like a senator or something. He's probably throwing cows or some shit. See, he looked in that photo. He's not going to be happy unless he's throwing something. How much meat do you think that guy eats? I can't imagine.

It's like 270 pounds. It's like, what the hell? Plates. Plates of T-bones. I want to try that now. Greco? Pick somebody up like that? Oh, it's hard.

It's hard to pick a child up like that. I don't think I could do it with my kids like that. It's like, spread your weight out. They're stiff. It's like, pick a child up like that I don't think I can do my kids like that It's like Spread your weight out They're stiff You know it's like You go No you can't do that He just

He does this And he's facing Backwards on him He just Picks him up He's just absolutely freakish It's crazy Yeah see if you can see the video

Because he's done it to guys That are like 330 Yeah and he just Hoists them up Like they're a sack of potatoes And he just slams them And the impact of him slamming them... There has to be a technique behind it.

Oh, for sure. No, there's power. Yeah, you've got to be super, super strong. But there's also technique. But you have to be strong as fuck. It's like a Turkish get-up, right? There's a lot of power in Turkish get-ups like this. That's a mild one. There's some

of them that are so ridiculous that when he hoists them up, that looks like a guillotine, man. He was a fucking strong guillotine. He was so strong, man. He was so strong. And guys were terrified of him. That's it right there?

Yeah, that's it. See, they would flatten out. This is it. Boom. They would flatten out so that he couldn't do this to him because that was what he was known for. Look at the size of that motherfucker

and he'd still pick him up yeah Corellon was ridiculous these are the best wrestlers in the world this isn't high school

this isn't this is what they would do they'd flatten out on their stomach international competition he's doing this he did this to 800 and some guys

yeah I mean he was just a monster like a literal monster look up in the air you're going for a ride Here you go Boom Fuck all that I mean imagine if that guy learned Jiu Jitsu

Oh my god I mean imagine that guy Entering into Jiu Jitsu tournaments And I believe he had a fake MMA fight yeah he did but it was fake

it wasn't real it was one of the Japanese ones they love that stuff that was so weird remember when Mark Coleman fought Takata

and he literally went pro wrestling style I'm not gonna tap I'm not gonna tap no you gotta love Mark you gotta love Mark I love Mark Coleman mark is one of the best humans ever you know he's so awesome you know it's like he's just he's funny it's like he's he's a guy it's like he

he could have nothing left in his life and they'll give you his shirt oh he's a great guy yeah and and one of the greats like he he got everybody gaining weight when mark coleman was ufc heavyweight champion he got everybody gaining weight because they were Coleman was UFC heavyweight champion, he got everybody gaining weight. Because they were like, fuck. You had to deal with this 265-pound gorilla who would just shoot doubles on you and he could headbutt you back then. And there was no gloves on. So he's headbutting you, ground and pound, and you couldn't get him off of you. That just shows you how good Maury Smith was.

Because Maury Smith beat him in his prime and he beat him with leg kicks and he beat him with endurance so maury's figured out because he was doing a lot of training with frank shamrock and he figured out how to defend himself off his back real good butterfly guard realize how to hold on and just chop those fucking legs when he's standing up yeah you know i remember i was there because it was a giant upset and i remember why because i was standing by the side of the octagon and i heard him say come on mark ground me and pound me come on he was talking to him like boom i mean this was at the time look how big he is though he's enormous but at the time this was the most spectacular upset in the history of the sport everybody Everybody thought that Mark Coleman was just impossible to beat.

He was so big. And look at Mark's wearing shoes. See that? Yeah, he couldn't kick. He had fucking shoes on back then. Dude, Maurice Smith was the shit, man. You know what's funny? I've never seen any of these.

You've never seen any of these? These are good to watch, man. These are good to watch. This one is a really big one to watch because Maurice figured out how to defend himself off of his back and just took his time. Look at Mark's wearing shoes. He knew Mark was going to get cold. And you could kick with those shoes on.

Yes. At that point in time, you could. Because Pete Williams knocked Mark Coleman out with a head kick with shoes on. With shoes on. Yeah. You could kick with shoes on. With shoes on. Yeah. Yeah. You could kick with shoes on. Crazy.

Yeah. I think you couldn't kick like, you couldn't throw like a side kick to the face. I don't think you could hit him with the bottom of your foot. No soles. Yeah. I think Alex Andreas in UFC 30-something, he got disqualified for kicking with shoes. But that was probably after this. Yeah, they changed the rules. They changed it. Yeah. They changed a lot of shit. Things got disqualified for kicking with shoes. But that was probably after this. They changed it. They changed it. They changed a lot

of shit. Things got weird. It's interesting to watch the evolution of the sport over the years and the rules. Some of the stoppages. There it is right here. Wow. Boom. Pete Williams. Pete later became a chef. Yeah. I believe in Hawaii.

He was a chef in Hawaii. You know Charles Rosa Hawaii I think he was a chef in Hawaii You know Charles Rosa I think he's a chef Is he? Yeah Pete's a nice guy Very nice guy Yeah

He's a nice guy That was a big victory too man God my god That was huge Mark Coleman Back in the day When he came around He was

He like He was the first Really enormous wrestler Right That figured out How to take guys down And smash them You You know what, Wade? He wrestled in college at 189. Wow.

189. So it's like... Guess where DC was at? It's like in college. He wrestled at 189. Wow. He took second. Is that Coleman? No. He wrestled at 189. Wow. He took second. He took second.

Is that Coleman? No. It looks like my size. It doesn't look like him, though. Mark Kerr. 189. That photo. That's what he wrestled at.

It doesn't look like his face. That's what's crazy. Yeah, Mark Kerr was the biggest example of a real freak. Did you ever see that documentary, The Smashing Machine? Yeah. Fuck. What about Alistair Overeem? He used to be small to be small he fought a 205 yeah alistair was thin yeah he got KO'd by chuck chuck and pride yeah he was thin back then like you look different but the alistair that

fought brock lesnar oh my god that's a big guy that's a great argument for supplements. Dude, it's like... He looked amazing. You kind of want to see what a guy can do. You know? Just let him... No more rules. Just stick up my rules. Just juice it up. Just fucking go at it, you know? Juice it up.

I mean, he was a monster when he was a heavyweight. When he won... You got to think about that guy's career. That guy won the... Alistair? Yeah, K1 Grand Prix, which is insane, right? He won the Dream heavyweight championship he won the strike force heavyweight championship i mean he's a mother he won the abu dhabi trials in europe

see all that and that ufc belt elusive yeah eluded him remember when he used to carry that hammer oh yeah and the pride yeah he had this hammer there was like demolition man carrying this freaking hammer. The theatrics and freaking pride were awesome. Do you remember when Kimo used to come on with a cross on his back? Yes. He would carry a fucking cross into the octagon. And then Joseon, when he fought, he carried that same cross or a similar cross.

Right. When he fought into the octagon. This is a prop. Dude. Not only that, but you'd get exhausted. how much is a cross way a big-ass cross it was a huge cross like a real like metal no wood wood like a big-ass look at this look at that he's carrying that fucking thing into the octagon I mean shit that's gotta be a 60-pound cross no fucking heavy that is You'd have to go to Home Depot and make that before you go fight.

You know, it's like they're not going to let you fly like that. Yeah, you got to. I didn't even think about all that. He's like taking it everywhere he goes. That's such a good point. You got to actually build it while you're there. It's like, oh, shit, we got to do our meal prep. We got to build the cross.

You got to carry it into the octagon. And it's been crazy when you think about the evolution of the sport from 93 to 2021. It's changed martial arts. Oh, for sure.

Forever. For the better. For the better. Oh, yeah. It's like, you know, it's a lot more honest and stuff like that. Oh, my God.

So much more. I mean, still, you know, you can see plenty of fake martial like that oh my god so much more i mean still you know you can see plenty of fake martial arts online right instagram you can see some of these like ridiculous guys with the chi touch and right you know touching people and they're going conscious but but back in the day when i was doing martial arts it was like people really thought that shit was real oh there's still people that think it's real you know i mean they're crazy people but there's you know it's like they think it's real what year did you start training jujitsu uh 95 96 somewhere in there early adapter yeah but i was in south dakota i i lived in south dakota i was going to college

in south dakota there was no no place to to learn so it's like uh we bought the henzo gracie craig cook yes because we heard what the heck... What the heck? Craig Kukuk. VHS, you know. Red outside plastic. I remember that. I had those series. I just recently got rid of them. Did you really?

Yeah. I held on to them forever because I thought they were cool. I'm like, what am I doing with this? Yeah. It's just stuff. It's like history, though. I had this box of VHS tapes from back then. You got rid of them?

Yeah. I shouldn't have. Yeah, so it's like I would drive down here. So I would drive to Texas to train with Carlos. Wow. So I did that for a year before I moved here. And I moved here in 97. So I guess 96 or so is when I really started training.

Wow. A long time. Yeah, those tapes were responsible for so many people's evolution as a jjitsu artist yeah cuz it was on you know it's like heads oh there's a good job you know he showed you everything right is I remember a friend of mine was training at Gracie in Torrance and hoist beat someone I think he beat Dan Severin with a triangle right and so they were asking how do you do a triangle and they wouldn't show no they're like you're not ready for that yet it's like what but you could go to these tapes

and henzo would show you how to do a triangle it's it's interesting yeah it's you know dealing with the the gracies is you know always going to be a little bit different you know it's like because it's kind of like the big mafia family of jiu-jitsu you know it's like and they have their little inner squabbles and all that other stuff it's it's kind of fun to be an outsider and watch everything you know but it's like well they you know they need credit because they did really revolutionize the the art they really did they their contribution whether it's through elio or carlos or carlson in brazil and then you know coming over here in Horry and starting off the UFC and Hoist winning the UFC and Hickson becoming Hickson and you know being this legend that everybody's aware

of yeah no you're 100% right you know it's like uh but there but then there was at the same time in Brazil there was you know there was other sects of uh you know people training you know that was completely and totally separate from those guys because they weren't the only ones that got caught taught and they were doing the same things and then it's like you know and even luther livre and just brazil in general it's like having the fights that they had down there those no rules fights it's like watching you know chuck liddell for pele and yeah you know with the nets remember that right and it's like and they're you know it's like i mean this is just a crazy time. And it's like, yes, they definitely deserve credit and things like that.

But there's more things happening than just them. Yeah. There was more things happening than them, but they're a giant part of why Jiu-Jitsu got maybe like 90% of it. Yeah. They're huge. why jiu-jitsu got maybe like 90 percent of it yeah yeah they're huge you know it's like um horian bringing it you know being part owner of the ufc or owning whatever percentage i think it was like 50 he owned the first five and then he sold it sold it on the fifth one he sold his percentage away because they weren't they got away from and the fifth one is when they stopped doing

the no time limit stuff and he didn't like that. And, you know, it's interesting. It's like, you know, but even like some of the stories that you hear about, you know, some of the training that went on, you know, like before then, you know, it's like with the Machados on how they left and, you know, like because they got brought here by Horian, you know, and they were teaching out of the same garage with hickson and uh all those guys and then they you know for whatever reason chuck uh chuck chuck famous norris chuck norris you know like carlos you like carlos in it and then they you know eventually brought him out here to texas and had him you know teaching and you know teaching him on the

movie set you know on the tv series walk Walker, Texas Ranger. Walker, Texas Ranger. Yeah, man. That's a good show. It's just funny. It's like how everything worked out for Carlos and stuff like that. It is crazy. Did you ever get a chance to roll with Hickson? I never did get a chance to roll with Hickson.

I've met him a couple times, but I've never got a chance to roll with him. I've rolled with John Jock. I've rolled with higgin uh you know it's like higgin higgin when i went to abu dhabi it's like i'd won the qualifier i thought it was pretty good i'd train with carlos a lot and stuff like that and i'm warming up with higgin and higgin made me feel like a little girl it's like you know he was just you know this is when he was uh he was at heavy, and he fought Mark Kerr in the finals. And it's like taking Kerr's massive 260 pounds with his high voice, and it's like nobody can break this.

This is his plan to win was he's going to put his hands around your hips, and you can't break this, and I'm going to win. And he did. It's like Higgin, but Higgin was just so good. I it's like and i mean john jock is crazy good it's like carlos was crazy good um you know but it's like uh it was you know rolling with those guys is very fun yeah i mean you you were at the ground floor of a very special time in jujitsu really yeah when jujitsu was entering into mainstream consciousness right i was very very lucky to be you know have the opportunity to come here and come to texas learn from carlos and and uh get to

do some of the things that i got to do and stuff like that i started out at uh hickson's on pico yeah and uh and then i didn't know the difference between the gracie's yeah and then i i didn't realize i was like probably one of the best spots ever right and then I found Carlson Gracie's place was like 15 minutes closer to my house yeah so I go I'll just go there yeah and so I was going there and I was there when Vitor was they would call him Victor when they were calling him Victor Gracie Victor Gracie yeah I remember that yeah so that was when I was a white belt that's where really where I started It was John Iwano from Iwano Geese, you know, and Mario Sperry was there. They had all the Carlson Gracie guys were there.

Yeah. Carlos Pajetto was there. That was a crazy good team. Yeah. That had to be a good place to learn. It was crazy, yeah. And so then when that went down, that was on Hawthorne in L. and when that went down then i went to john jocks so i was i've been at john jocks since like i think it was like 97 ish it's crazy how you can grapple with that hand it's like you

know it's a thumb yeah it's like and it's just amazing that thing is a weapon too it's like stopping a choke with that thing right it's like slides under your under we all started making a fist like this to try that yeah to try to come in yeah you know it's like uh you know it's like john jock's crazy crazy good athlete you know well you know what he did he also realized that because he didn't have that one hand to grab collars he changed his game and his game became more overhooks and underhooks, and so it was very easy to apply that game to Nogi. Right. Yeah.

And that's why when he went, like there was a lot of guys that went to Abu Dhabi, and they were looking for things to grab, and their game was severely diminished, whereas Jean-Jacques' game was not diminished at all. Yeah, well, that's why that first year, especially, he had such good, you know, success and stuff like that.

Yeah. He looked really good. He's an awesome person, too. I love that kind of death. Yeah. Kevin, when you look at your career, where you're at right now versus where you want to be, do you have goalposts in mind? Do you have an ultimate destination that you want to get to?

Do you have guys on your hit list? Or do you just want to just keep fighting, keep getting better? I'd love to keep fighting and keep getting better. I mean, but if there's anybody on the hit list, I mean, a good fun fight with Vittori would be nice. You know? With who? Vittori. Marvin Vittori. Oh, Marvin Vittori. Getting this Brunson scrap out the way would be nice. And then I basically just want everybody who likes to play all those games, you know, the little games that I don't like to play or that I like to play and they ain't playing with me. What games?

What do you mean? Just, you know, the Stalbender fight one day. He don't have to be the champ. You know, it could be in the backyard. It wouldn't matter. You know, I say I don't want that Dechamaya fight one day. It would be nice. All these guys, man.

I just want to fight, you know, and I want to fight all those guys that are supposedly really really good so i can find out how good i am you know it's like and it's the only way to find out you know do you have a time in your mind where you want to get out of the game yeah i'd like to be done at 34 there's other 34 and he's been saying that for years it's like it's always been 34 it's never changed it's like he's been saying 34 it's a good time because you know you're athletic still in in your prime, but not past it. You're not dealing with a diminished body. Yeah, there's other things to do. One day my kid will have kids, and I want to be a cool-ass grandparent,

so fighting past 34 might fuck that up. So I'll try and avoid that part. Yeah, there's a lot of guys that you're seeing that are hanging in there a little bit too long, and that sad story repeats itself over and over and over again, and we've all seen it. Yeah then you know the older you get the more those new guys get to come by and make a name off you and yeah you know it's like uh yeah i want them screaming my name come out of retirement instead of i beat his old ass you know one or the other yeah yeah 34 i mean that's a that's a total doable time you you know? He's still got six years.

It's like Kevin's not as good as he could be yet. You know, it's like he's still things he can improve on. You know, it's like that's plenty of time. He can make a lot of money in between now and then, and life will be good. As time gets on and you get closer and closer to a title shot and you get closer and closer to a title shot and you get closer and closer to realizing your potential do you think you'll ever change your approach and just just enjoy doing things that are fun or do you think you'll become more disciplined with strength and conditioning

more disciplined with your diet more disciplined it's happening naturally without you know me wanting it to happen but i think i'll always have a great time with this you know it's wanting it to happen. But I think I'll always have a great time with this. You know, it's like it's, I enjoy it. You know, I'll enjoy it until I can't enjoy it anymore. But I think you realize as you get older and as you get closer and closer to like the top of the food chain that there's these little differences that may, like obviously you're a great athlete, obviously you're a fantastic fighter,

but would you be slightly better if you did something different would you be slightly better they make me they're making me want to they're making me want to so he's doing it it's like a year and a half ago he wasn't doing a lot of the things that he's doing today it's like he's way more disciplined it's like hey man i don't want to come in and train you know i don't have a fight coming up now it's like he's in the gym all the time you know it's like it's like it's like a year and a half ago i don't want to do strength and conditioning i don't have a fight coming up now now he's still doing it he did it all last year he didn't have a problem with doing it he didn't

complain it's becoming a new lifestyle but you haven't lost the joy that's the thing no it's just it's becoming a new lifestyle i just i really enjoy what i do and it's like uh it's like more discipline it's like when i talk to my dad it's like he's always like yeah it's gonna happen as you get older you know what I mean just get more disciplined yeah it just it just happens you know it's just who we are you know what I mean that that dog that's in there it tends to leave a little bit and you tend to you know do things a little bit more like okay I probably should do this and I kind of want to do this this is a smart thing to do yep let's stick with that and it's like but you know it's like it will happen I just

won't rush it I won't make it happen you know it's like it will happen i just won't rush it i won't make it happen you know when it happens it happens and i feel it happening every day and it's like it things a little bit more like a job every day do you do any but you still love it i love it it's a joy greatest job ever i'd rather do this and flip burgers at bird game who wouldn't what do you do in terms of like recovery do you do sauna uh ice baths massage nothing you're laughing nothing they try and get me to go i've done i've done a decent job this camp of uh of hitting a few places making sure i get the recovery and stuff like that but getting to swim we do get into the swim we consider that like a recovery workout, he, getting him, you know, he smokes weed.

That helps. Um, that helps. Listen, that's a good coach. You know, it's like great coach. This is like my dad.

Cause it helps him relax. Right. It helps him relax. It helps him, you know, it's like Kevin, you know, it's like,

I really think it's like, you know, for, for Kevin, you know, he really needs weed. It was like, we realized that years ago.

Cause I tried to get him, I tried, get him. Listen, Kevin, it's illegal. I just won't fight there. Listen, you have to want to fight in the UFC. I'm not going to fight there. They test. I'm not going there. And then they started relaxing the rules and they're like, okay, I'll go there. But it's like

a medical thing where it's like Kevin slows down the world. It helps him relax. It's like medical thing where it's like Kevin slows down the world. It helps him relax. It's like Kevin without weed is difficult. We're all much safer with Kevin with weed. Oh, seriously. I believe it.

It's really bad. I always found it made my jiu-jitsu better. I really did. I felt like I rolled. Not my training, not learning. Like teaching things, I'm not good at learning things when I'm did. I felt like I rolled. Not my training, not learning. Like teaching things, I'm not good at learning things when I'm high. But when I roll, if I would get high and just roll, I always felt like way more in tune with what was going on.

Like open mats. Yeah, just go out there and roll. Baked as fuck. Barbecue. But if he comes in barbecued, if he comes in barbecued, then that's too far. He'll just be goofy. It's like that doesn't work for Kevin. If Kevin comes in barbecue, then that's too far. I don't know. It's like, he'll just be goofy. It's like, that doesn't work for Kevin.

He like one hit, two hits. Yeah. It's like, okay, what'd you do yesterday? Okay, let's do that again. Okay. What'd you do yesterday? Don't do that. Don't do that.

That was bad. A blunt before practice. I've learned like a blunt before practice is perfect. You know, it's like, it's when I smoke. Just don't get too crazy. Yeah. It's when I go two or three blunts, I come in there and I'm like. And then we're talking about the blunts too.

It's like, we need to switch away from this. It's like, you know, it's like, I'm like, you know, can you switch to this? And he's like, no. Edibles? What about edibles? I don't know. It's like, maybe. It's like, you know, like, okay.

I'll just have, I'll just have sugar roll me a couple. It's like, it'll be fine. I'll use different paper. Okay, fine. Do you get massages or ice baths or anything like that? I know a couple it's like it'll be fine i'll use different paper okay do you get massages or ice baths or anything like that i know a couple sexy girls i don't think that counts i mean like sports massage like a real massage like someone who breaks your tight tissue up and loosens your muscles yeah yeah she's

tissue up and loosens your muscles yeah yeah she's cha-cha-cha-cha you know gets the action and we're good to go getting getting kevin to do that stuff is difficult maybe when he gets a little bit older that stuff's for softies bro softies yeah yeah or older people really one or the other yeah like you and i are older people yeah softies but what about sauna you don't do any of that either no there's no reason for the sauna i mean no reason we get him to swim we're happy with it we can't get him to swim baby steps well maybe a year from now we'll come back and we'll be talking about sauna but i mean it might be two or three yeah it's bad it's like uh i used to think the foam roller was gay you know it's like what are you doing with it where are you putting it no you just need to look at why are you doing that it's like why are you doing that it's like this is silly yeah it's like what are you doing with it where are you putting it no he just need to look at why are you doing that it's like why are you doing that it's like this is silly yeah it's like

now you see now he's now he's using it some not very much yeah a little bit yeah yeah i didn't like the resistant bands at first you start to do resistant bands i just be like bro that's for girls like give me some weights and he gave me like five pounds he'd be like do this workout i'd be like five this brother say nothing then i'd be tired i'd be like oh five pounds. He'd be like, do this workout. I'd be like, five? This brother's saying nothing. Then I'd be tired. I'd be like, oh, God. So, you know, it's like, yeah. I don't know. I'm just weird. Baby steps, right?

Baby steps with Kevin. Baby steps. We'll take our time. Listen, Kevin, I'm a big fan. I'm glad you came down here. Thanks, bro. Glad I got a chance to talk to you. And it's been really cool to call your fights and really cool to watch your ascension up the ranks the ranks in the UFC and I'm excited about this Brunswick fight I'm just excited about your

career thanks bro I'm appreciative I'm super happy to be here this is cool yeah I could tell you are and you're just a fun guy man you know fun people like you they don't they don't come around that often you know it's great thanks my pleasure great to see you as well travis awesome congratulations good luck to you can't wait to see you again goodbye everybody