The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #107 with Georges St-Pierre

Episode Date: April 7, 2021

Joe is joined by UFC Hall of Famer and actor Georges St-Pierre.

The Joe Rogan Experience. Showing by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. How many times a week do you have a guest on your show? Do you have times that you have two guests during a day? It's rare, but I did it once last week and then today. Wow. Yeah. That burns you? Nah, it's rare but uh it did it once last week and then today wow yeah that that burns you nah it's just talking it's not i you know we up yeah okay good it's insane you know why is it insane because man sometimes you know i i can train all day yeah you know but if i do something

like this like like in like a autograph signing or any like things that require more i would say um you know meet and greets and stuff like that that take more out of me than a physical something physical like a training that's just because you're accustomed to training all the time it's like everything else like the the more accustomed to it you are the easier it is man anyway you you look fantastic you do too you haven it is. Man. Anyway, you look fantastic. You do too. You haven't aged a bit. You're like wine.

You get better with age. I like the frosted tips, man. What are you doing? Change my style. You know, when you get older, you try to look younger. When you're younger, you try to look older. Right. That's true.

Like young guys try to grow beards. That's right. Don't let it go. I just shaved. I had Lex Freeman podcast yesterday. Yes. true like young guys try to grow beards that's right let it go i just shaved i had i had lex spreeman podcast yesterday yes and i told myself i said you know what it would look it will look weird if i appears on both podcasts in austin with the same style you know so it's better that i so when they put it on on the social media at least it's kind of a different look so i saw with

lexi wore the suit and tie just like him right men and men in black style that's right it's kind of a different look so i saw with lexi wore the suit and tie just like him right men and black style that's right it's nice reservoir dogs yes look at that look at you too i love lex he's he's such a great guy he's amazing i i really enjoyed talking to guys like this because you don't meet people like this every day he's so educated so smart yes but also a martial artist i agree yeah yeah that's right he he says that he was a big fan he was kind of intimidated i said i'm intimidating talking to you legs because i cannot teach you anything you know like you can teach me stuff i can learn from you you cannot you know in regards of perhaps martial art, yes. But in terms of life, I'm like, in terms of knowledge, you can teach me so much more than I can do.

It's true. If you talk to him about artificial intelligence and AI and machine learning and everything, like, oof. Bro, yesterday we went deep in the rabbit hole. We, you know, like in your podcast, sometimes you curves, you go in the field. With Lex yesterday, we went in the right field like far away would you would you discuss man at one point i was the one interviewing him because i'm curious the podcast

took another turn like i wanted to i was the one interviewing him because i'm so curious you know when i meet someone like him i like i take advantage of it you know like it's uh i think he likes it and i ask him about what he thinks about free will. If he thinks at one point, AI will be, could be a potential threat for humanity. What do you think about that? He actually changed my mind quite a bit on the subject. Did you think it could be a threat? Now you don't?

No, on free will. Oh, free will. Because I never never like before I met Lex like yesterday before that I thought that free will was just an illusion and everything is a result of causality right right determine determine determinism that's right a lot of people don't know what it that's called determinism but Lex came up with a very good argument, and now I'm not so sure anymore. I think both things are true.

I think it's like many things involving human beings. There's not an absolute in one side or the other. For sure, free will is a thing because we both know about discipline. We both know how difficult it is. You know more than anybody how difficult it is when you're in like a full training camp and you're exhausted, but you know you have the work that you have to do. And there's some people that will find a way out of that work. They'll quit or they'll not answer their phone or they'll take time off. And then there's other people that will just bite down and deal with it and be uncomfortable but do the work.

That's free will. That's discipline. There's something. But why can you do it and why can other people not do it? How much of your personality was instilled upon you because of your genetics, because of your life experiences, because of the environment that you grew up in, how much of it was the people that you experienced when you were younger that showed you the value and the benefit of hard work, and how many of the people that you mirrored were lazy and then found excuses, and maybe you lean towards them. How much of determinism is true? How much of

free will is true? It's a balance. There's a lot of both things. That's right. You know, in a mechanical world, if a car breaks, we're not going to say the car decide to break. Right. Or if a tree falls down, we're not going to say the trees decide to break. Maybe the asymmetry of the tree makes it fall down. There's a reason why.

But I feel that us as human beings sometimes, our ego wants us to be in control of the universe, which is, I do not believe it's the case. So that's why I tend to, before I met Lex, I was 100% convinced there is no free will. And, you know, everything is determined by causality. Now I'm not so sure because we talk about consciousness, what it is, and he had some

incredible argument and he made me see a different point of view that I never seen before. Well, just think about this. Think about how many people seek out inspiration. Think about how valuable it is. Like Matt Frazier was on my podcast a couple of weeks ago. He was a five-time CrossFit champion. And one of the things that he does now, he has this art collection that he's selling on his website. And it's all these inspirational quotes.

And the idea is to put up this art with all these inspirational quotes. quotes and the idea is to put up this art with all these inspirational quotes and that will give you fuel to get through your workouts or get through difficult things that you want to do in your life we all are like how many people post inspirational things online and then how many people like you know read those things and get excited and it inspires them to action there's some real cause and effect that's right where there's inspiration and then there's action that's motivated by that inspiration, whether it's going to The Rock's Instagram and watching him at five o'clock in the morning, The Rock here working out in the Church of Iron, you know, like all the shit that that guy does or all these other, Cam Haynes or David Goggins, all these other

inspirational people that are online. Why are they so motivational? Why do so many people flock to them? Because there's a reality to the – there's a give and take to these things, and there's certain things that inspire you to action. You can externally be motivated by those things. It's not necessarily 100% determinism. There is some free will. Well, however, there's, for example, a coat that can inspire you.

But to me, it doesn't have the same effect because of my background. It doesn't get me to my core because I cannot rely really much to it. So it's a little bit of determinism because it's the causality that makes it who I am and who you are that makes it the effect of that coat as on you is different than it has on me or you could both grow up in the same environment you could have a brother that's inspired by things that are not even remotely inspirational to you but to him it's everything whether it's music or whether it's a movie or a book or whatever it is. It's true. Like in families, very often you have someone who's going the right way and perhaps one of his siblings will go the wrong way. And we always tend to say,

oh, we don't understand because they've been raised the same way, but they did not. The moment you take one of your kids in your arm and the other one is looking at the at, at the kid that you're, you know, it's, it changed everything. You know what I mean?

Yeah, it's very hard to understand. I, but, but I, I'm not saying that I'm convinced that there is no free will, but I, I don't know.

Now he did. He didn't completely convince me. He didn't completely make me change my mind, but he's got his point in and now man i i don't know i think the real problem is people that are convinced one way or the other that's the real problem because it is an open-ended on a conversation i don't think they're really i i think determinism is a real factor but i also think will is a real factor too in that there's something about the open-ended variability of your decisions and what you decide to do and what you don't decide to do. There's moments in your life where you go, fuck it, I'm going to do it.

I'm going to go for it. And when you do go for it, your life changes. What makes you say, fuck it, I'm going to go for it? It depends entirely on what happened that day to you it depends entirely on how you feel whether or not you got rest whether or not you you broke up with a girlfriend or she broke up with you or you got fired from a job or you quit a job or you took on a new path in life like all those different things play a factor but there is also your own personal decision making that's based on your own

personality and maybe your own life experiences. There's so many things involved. But for sure, we all value discipline. We all value the ability to take action. Well, why do we do that? Because we know it's a variable. It comes and goes. It ebbs and flows. And sometimes it's there and sometimes it's not it's like what is that expression there's a there's an old expression i don't remember who said it but that inspiration is like bathing it's effective but you need to do it daily and i think there's something to that it's like you need to seek out inspiration and that's why again people like david goggins are so inspirational because you can go to his page every

day and that motherfucker's running 30 miles a day you know what i mean like there's something to that like you get you get you get fuel out of that there's people like my friend cam haynes there's people or the rock or whoever it is they give you fuel you see them training hard you go oh there's fuel in that yeah i want to go train they are unbreakable yeah they have an unbreakable will and this is very inspirational. Yeah. That's right. So there's two things happening.

There's one. It's like, yeah, you are a lot of who you are because of genetics and because of life experience and because of all the things that have happened to you. But there's also decisions that you make. There's lines in the sand where you draw. There's moments when you say, I'm going to do something different now. I'm tired of this shit. Like people that are drunk their whole life and fucked up on drugs and then one day they go enough enough i don't want to do this anymore i'm going to change and they have inspiration and then they go to a 12-step program and they meet other people that also have

inspiration and they feed off of each other i think it's important to face adversity. It helps if you face it at a very young age because it molds you. Yeah. Especially if you're able to overcome it. Because if you've never faced adversity before, and when you face it for the first time and you're not prepared for it, it can break you. Yes. It can make you fold.

Right. You see that very often in a career in mixed martial arts. Some of the guys, they've been protected for too long, and then when they face a real challenge, they fold. Same thing in anything. And I think guys perhaps like David Goggins, when I heard their backstories, because they faced adversity, they had to face an incredible amount of adversity,

and they were able to overcome each of it, and they become stronger because what doesn't kill you make you stronger right or it fucks you up to the point where you're weak and you were before but i think it's it's a little bit life i think it could be like a fight if you gradually face adversity yes it's like someone who's you know someone who's let's say someone who's very healthy always pay everything for his kids. His kids are not used to learn the importance of hard work. You know what I mean?

I think it's very important to teach that to kids. The importance of hard work, the importance of adversity. The importance of, not to break them right when they're young and make them lose their confidence, because I believe confidence is everything, right? If you don't have, can have all the skills in the world, but if you don't have confidence, it's like someone who has a lot of money in his bank account, but no way of accessing it. So by facing adversity and overcome it, you're building your confidence. That's why sports are so important for kids. Yeah man, and life and same thing in business. You're gonna reach time that you're gonna go down

and sometime you might go to the down deep, but if you face adversity before you're used to overcome those obstacles, you'll bounce back from it. That's why I know a lot of people, sometimes they face adversity and they fall, they can't stand back from it yes that's why like like i know a lot of people sometimes they they they face adversity and they fall they can't stand up from it and some people i let's help them let's help them but if you help them you always give them help they will rely on that they need to learn from themselves and sometimes i think there is nothing better than reach the down deep to find out like how strong you are to come back from from

that you know yeah well that's a lot of things that people say when they're talking about experiencing drug addiction or alcoholism they have to hit rock bottom they hit rock bottom and then they realize they don't want to be there anymore and then they build themselves back up they experience that adversity and they overcome it that's right break them that's right sometimes you can fold you can break you but he can make you much stronger what do you this is a good point of discussion because the way uh mixed martial arts fighters particularly in the large organizations whether it's the ufc or bellator or what have you they're they're developed very differently than boxing in boxing they take a

fighter and the goal is to keep that fighter undefeated as long as possible until they can get them a title shot. And a really good manager and a really good trainer will progressively increase the level of the opponents that they face. That's right. They'll give you an opponent that's a very good inside fighter, give you an opponent who's got a longer reach and fights very well from the outside, and show you all these various problems that you're going to encounter when you face a world-class opponent.

Whereas in the MMA, you just get fucking thrown into the wolves. Well, you're matched with someone on paper who has a similar record than you do, who has a similar skill set than you do. So it's pretty much 50-50 on paper. Not always, but very often. Very often. I believe the reason why it is like that is because if you look at the UFC, for example, look at UFC the way they promote the event.

UFC is like the Vaseline of petrol jelly. Right. People don't say, hey, I watch mixed martial arts. They say, I watch UFC. Right. People don't say, hey, I watch Mixed Martial Arts. They say, I watch UFC. Right. So the way they promote it, it's UFC 226, this guy versus this guy

on the bottom, but they promote the UFC. They don't promote the fighter. They promote mostly the brand and it's very smart because they have the monopole over the others, right? Right.

Which in boxing, they build up their fighter because the money is on the fighter. It's not on the IBF title. Yes, it's IBF title, but it's Canelo versus Mayweather. And then on the bottom, you know for what they're fighting for,

which in the UFC is the opposite. Yeah. So that's the main difference and that's why it's like that, which is not a bad thing for their business because they're there to make money right it's a smart move but for for the fighters i mean i mean if you're on the winning hand it's a good thing to to be promoted but if you're in the losing hand i mean yeah it's gotta get another job you know but it's so it's unusual where a guy like john jones rises through the ranks where he's 22 years old, he fights for the title and wins.

That's very unusual. Very unusual. A lot of times when guys are very young and they get thrown into the wolves like that, they don't... Like, Jon is an extraordinary talent. He's very unusual. One of a kind. One of a kind.

Literally one of a kind. Because he's the only guy other than Khabib Nurmagomedov that's fought his entire career and been undefeated. Jon has one loss, but it's a bullshit loss. It was a disqualification, a fight that he totally dominated against Matt Hamill. Yeah, for throwing the downward elbows, which is a ridiculous rule. Don't you think that's the most ridiculous rule out of all the rules? The 12 to 6 elbow.

Joe, if it would be up to me, I mean, I would allow almost anything, and I would not even make rounds. I think rounds are stupid. You want to see who's the best man? Let them fight, man. What about eye pokes? No, no eye poke. The problem is the gloves.

Trevor Whitman came up with gloves, you know, because a UFC glove, when you put it on, it makes your hand open like this. And, for example, there's gloves like trevor whitman he made the gloves naturally makes your hand fold and that's one of the solution to the problem they're better protecting your hands too a hundred percent travers gloves are the best i remember superior i remember every win like john mccarty used to fold the glove and wrap it to make sure it but it's still not enough because when you when you when you put

it on it it makes your hand open yeah so that's the the problem with the high poke and and i i believe no i would not allow high poke of course but i would you know and no rounds what about groin shots no no no maybe not not going shot like i mean i would keep it in there the realm of of sport you know right but yeah man if you want to see who's the best man, let them fight. Because you see very often that a fight is interrupted by a round. And the momentum shifts like 180 degrees completely. Yes. And it's not fair.

It's a fight. Let them fight. I agree. But I also think that stand-ups are bullshit. I get mad. And people go, no, no, no. Like fighters get mad at me. They're like, you don't know what you're talking about.

You know, the stand-ups are important. Otherwise people will stall. I go, well, do something about it. Someone's holding you down. They're holding you down. You got to figure out a way to get up. Like that's a part of the sport. Like baseball, right?

Baseball's boring as fuck to me. But yeah, it's a subjective argument, yeah. You wait for this one moment where someone hits a ball really far, and it takes so long for those moments. Whereas a fight, if a guy can hold a guy down for three minutes, you're telling me you can't, we can't watch three minutes where a guy tries to figure it out? We're so starved for entertainment.

Our attention span is so short that we can't allow. That's part of the fight and you everyone knows that if you roll with a wrestler if you roll the wrestler they fucking squash you you're like shit i gotta figure out a way to get out from underneath this guy yeah but john joe we're we're we're in the entertainment business yes i understand actor comedian athletes uh singers it's an entertainment business people pay to be entertained we forgot that sometime yeah but it's also it's not about who's the best yeah it's not only about who's the best man i mean that's because us we're martial artists that's the pure the purity of our sport the truth about it for us is to see who's the best man but for an entertainment standpoint the money is not there right but isn't the incentive and the fighter like look a guy like

khabib nirmagomedov who's uh the greatest lightweight champion of all time you can't hold him down you can't do it no one's held him down yeah like you say that about him like well no one's ever fucking held him down he's never never held anybody down. He holds you down He's beating the shit out of you. I don't there's a lot of action involved in that guy holding you down No one's holding John Jones down. Yeah, hold John Jones down. Good luck Well, it's because they're good enough where that doesn't apply to them So if someone's getting held down isn't the issue that the fighter who's on the bottom? Doesn't have the ability to get back up. That's right.

But most people don't understand that. And I understand that completely. I'm on your side 100%. And the proof of that is even when I fought at my total reign, I was blamed to be kind of boring because I was not taking enough risk. But why would I take a risk if I'm winning the fight? Right. not taking enough risk.

But why would I take a risk if I'm winning the fight? Right. Why would I take a stupid risk and let an opportunity to my opponent to give me a fatal blow to knock me out? It's up to him to take the risk. Yeah. If you're a martial artist, you understand that, you know? But if you're watching a fight to be entertained,

you do not understand that. And because we live in an entertained world yeah that's what it is you know and that's just people looking for a reason to criticize you because you were so dominant though they're trying to find some reason why something you're doing is wrong and it's okay i i live i live with it you know and but the critics the critics were real but i always you know the good thing the good news about it for me is i got you know i'm i'm not i mean i could be brain damaged but so far i think i'm i'm good you did great are you kidding me man as many fights as you had like to be able to talk the way you talk yeah we all know

fighters that can't yeah but we all know boxers in particular that they get to a certain age and they're it's it's unbelievable you listen to them talk it's so sad however it's unbelievable. You listen to them talk. It's so sad. However, it's not a guarantee that I will not have problems in the future. I mean, so far, so good. Touch wood. And I don't think I got any issues. But I saw many doctors

because for me, my health is the most important thing. And they say that there is never a doctor that will tell you, oh, it's good that if you go back to fight. It's just that it's always a risk. And there is sometimes we don't have the technology nowadays sometimes to see if potentially you'll have problems in the future, right? Well, my hope is that the technology, medical technology will improve to the point where we can regenerate neurons and help people that have CTE. That's my real hope. Yes. And there is some light on the horizon when it comes to that.

There are some therapies that are available now that were not available just 5, 10 years ago. Yeah. It's sad. I see a lot of guys, they hang on way too long in the sport. I mean, everybody keeps fighting for different reasons. I fought myself not because I like to fight for the legacy, because I like to win, I guess, better than I hate to lose. So that's why I came back. But some guys, they keep fighting.

And they always ask me, they say, what do you think about this guy still fighting? And I'm like, if it were me, I would have retired a long time ago because you have a prime window and if when you're past your prime what's the point you know you're hurting your legacy but if you you do it because you love to fight or you do it because you need the money that's that's okay that's your your choice you know yeah but i think it's a very very sad thing and and also another thing very often i got i got parent coming with their their kids coming to me and telling me hey this is the the future world champion you know which

advice would you tell him and i always tell them the same thing i disappoint them all always almost all of them i don't do it now i said said to them, I say, how's school doing? They're like, oh, I don't really like it. I said, stay at school, be good. Keep training. It's good for you. You know, it's good for you, but don't put your eggs in the same basket, kid. You know, like keep training.

And the parent always look at me like this. And I'm like, it's not because I made it that I'm going to try to convince your kid to choose the same path. You know, in order, it's a very hard journey. Especially when you're dealing with a kid. Man. You don't know how that kid's going to grow. Like some kids grow up to be terrible athletes. That's right.

Through no fault of their own. They're slow. They can't hit hard. They don't get hit well. They have a bad chin. Like there's certain aspects that you can't control when it comes to an athlete. And Joe, I'm not talking only about MMA. I'm talking about basketball, hockey, baseball. Same thing.

Yes. It's the same thing. But more consequences with fighting than any of the other ones. Yeah. Hockey. Football. Hockey, football, American football. Soccer too is bad.

I talked to Dr. Kent who told me a lot of soccer players because they… Yeah, they hit the ball. Yeah. And it's very sad. They're crazy getting CTE from bouncing the ball off their head. No one would have ever expected that. Yeah. That's why there's a real problem with people.

They conflate concussions with CTE, but it's not necessarily. It's any kind of impact to the head. You know what my doctor, Dr. Mark Gordon, told me? People get CTE from riding jet skis wow just just riding jet skis and bouncing off of waves he said it rattles your your your brain inside your head and and people have like cognitive problems memory problems really and it turns out they they're experiencing cte dr kentu in boston told me that if you know any kids, if you have any kids, don't ever let him get hit on the head. Or if you play soccer, never hit the ball with your head.

Football, no contact. Because before puberty, he clearly made me understand that the damage is way worse. And you see some parents, sometimes they grab their kids like this and they shake them. This is terrible, terrible. So it's a very you know it's it's a very hard path and and you know one of the happiest place for me to go and the saddest place to go it's the gym when i go train to the gym it's the happiest place for me to go because i can practice the sport that i love because I love training you know I love the science of fighting and it's very sad too because after training there's always some guys that come to me to because they seek some advice and I always give them advice regarding fighting but

a lot of them my advice for them would be hey bro you know you should hang off you hang up your gloves and find a real job you know because you know, because I've seen this movie and it's not a good ending, my friend. Like, go find... But if I tell them the truth... They'll get mad at you. They'll get mad at me because I'll be like, oh, yeah,

you know what I mean? Like... You're jealous. Yeah, he's jealous, you know, he's arrogant and stuff, you know, but that's the thing. I tell my real friends that when it's time to hang up the gloves,

I tell them the truth. I say, listen. And I said to them, like I said, listen, man, what's good for you now? You know, it's a little bit like in the movie with Bruce Willis, you know, Quentin Tarantino. Oh, Pulp Fiction. Pulp Fiction, you know. If you would have made it, you would have made itantino you know pulp fiction pulp fiction you know if you if you would if you

would have made it you would have made it before you know when he made that speech you know it's a little bit the same thing but it's it's i love that monologue it's amazing but it's the truth a lot of people should rely to this but it's unfortunate well the reason why champions are so exceptional is because it's so hard to become a champion it's so rare all the stars have to align you have to have mental prowess physical prowess you have to have great coaching you have to have so many different factors have to come together and also fortune i mean your guy has been through some surgeries yes and we all know guys who they get injured and they can never even train again. It happens.

It's unusual, but it can happen. And we're dealing with this giant hurricane of possibilities for someone to, boom, come out of that and be a George St. Pierre or be a Khabib Nurmagomedov or a John Jones or someone who's exceptional. It's so rare. So when someone's kid comes up to you and says i'm gonna be the next world champion you're like the possibility that the odds of failure are so they're so high they're so high that's the thing it's it's i believe it's you need to have a certain predisposition yeah i met in my life incredible mentors that had a huge influence on me they they taught me like great life lessons techniques and it's incredible like if i would not have had that those those guys who influenced me i would never

have been where i am right now and plus on top of that you know i got i worked really hard and i was lucky you know like the star were all aligned but you need all that and you need the great coaching is so important too there's so many guys that are really talented but they they they have meathead coaches and their coaches train them the wrong way so they spar full blast in the gym and then they go out and they they lose and then they their coach has them sparring a couple weeks after they get knocked out and that kind of shit and and they don't have the technical prowess the technical proficiency to teach a child or a kid or an athlete right you can get unlucky you know i believe the best way to improve it's when it's playful i've seen so many guys joe i can't

say names but it's crazy how many guys i've seen that left their career in the gyms. Yeah. Because they spar too hard. Every sparring for them, it's about winning the rounds. Yeah, it's about life or death. You cannot improve like this. You need to be playful. Of course, when you're in training camp and your fight is coming up, you need to somehow try to recreate that environment of discomfort, that stress. create that environment of discomfort, that stress.

But when you're outside of that preparation zone, you need to be playful. And that's when you improve, when it's playful, when it's like a game, you know, because you will be more prone to trying new things. And by trying new things, you'll adapt adapt you'll be like oh this one works this one doesn't work but the one that works i keep it in my back pocket you know and it makes you grow that's the problems you know i've seen like very often i see guys like sparring they they

lose a lot of brain cells it's terrible it's terrible and i'm well i'm former world champion you know like when i've sparred with guys, very often they're nervous, so they become all stiff. And when they hit, they hit so hard. I tell them, I'm like, you don't get ready. You don't have any fight coming up. So I'm like, just have fun, but relax. I tell them, relax.

And very often they relax. Some will try to make, you know. So I have to answer back. I have to. But very often they relax and and and they're surprised that because it's so so much of an egotistic sport you know like we have this mentality that oh if the guy tell you to relax because he's scared you know right it's so stupid you know but it's that's how if you want to improve you need to it needs to be playful and and in everything you know we say

oh you when i say sparring when i when i'm about to spar with someone i never sparred before i that's what i do i tell him i say would you like to play a little bit i don't use the word sparring because sparring is like aggression and i tell him i say would you like to play a little bit there then we touch glove and we play. And I never go hard. I always start very, very slow. And if I see that he's going to hard, I tell him, I say, please, go more easy. And, of course, if he's getting ready for a fight, it's different. It's a different situation. But, you know, that's how it is.

You shouldn't be afraid to tell your training partner, hey, put it like slow down a notch you know like like when you see guys trying to throw a head kick to knock each other out you know in boxing sparring it's different because we we have big gloves big headgear you know they can't go hard i mean even if it's not good because it's repeatedly blows repetition to with the blows the head but in mma with the kicks it's the damage is basically like a baseball bat hitting your head you can't do that it's it's crazy man the ties have it right right that's right that's right because they have so many fights they have so many fights that and also when you fight someone when i fight someone it happened very often in my career like when I fight someone you have a

connection with the guy you fight a lot of things happen here and real fighter will know that what I'm talking about the connection that we have because you look at each other and these disconnection you cannot see it when you watch the fight on tv but very often in most of my fight when i went to decision i could see the guy break breaking folding like he's letting me know that he doesn't fight to win anymore he's fighting to not lose and like i said earlier it's not up to me trying to trying to push the pace trying to to finish him and increasing my risk of getting caught by a counter punch and getting knocked out you know it's up to him to take the risk you know because he's losing the fight and the idea in this game you want to save yourself for another day i mean it's sad to say for the family this is the truth if you win and that's what

you're doing is good you win you're winning the fight you know you're gonna get paid the the same amount of money of course if you have like an highlight reel something like that it could increase your pay but but in terms of your career i believe you should see your career as a marathon not as a sprint so you you kind of save yourself. And a lot of time I've fought guys, I could see in their face that, oh, he doesn't want to be there anymore. Like, I know I'm winning the fight before even the fight is over. They get desperate.

Of course, they're going to throw a haymaker or something, but I know they're not going to take any risk because they're hurt. They lost already. They know that I'm better than them. And that's when I know I get the fight. And They know that I'm better than them. And that's when I know I get the fight. And I know that I just need to be on cruise control. I can win if they don't.

It's hard to finish someone who doesn't fight to win anymore. You see very often champions in MMA have a very dominant career in the beginning. They finish a lot of their opponent. But after a while, it kind of peaked because the entire UFC roster is studying you and they figure you out. Maybe they didn't figure you out how to beat you, but they figure out how to kind of survive and hang in there with you. Jon Jones is a good example of that, right?

Everybody, myself, same thing. Like a lot of guys, Anderson Silva, all the champions. That's what happened. Everyone's studying you. Yes. It's hard to become champion. That's why I told Francis and Gano, I say, man, it's hard to become champion now.

Now the entire roster. He's a different animal. It's so hard. Oh, man. He's a scary human being. It's unbelievable. Pull the microphone in front of your face a little bit more there yeah it is yeah he's the scariest isn't he the scariest heavyweight of all time uh yeah man i think so no one's scarier a natural 265 pounds and knocks everyone out it's true there's guys that were that that were very scary in the beginning but then after when they got some other guys figure out how to beat them they're like oh okay they're

not so scary but even guys that are really scary like anderson silva it's usually multiple punches that he would knock you out with yes with francis you can't make any mistakes. Every punch is a hydrogen bomb. You don't need to be a champion to be a scary fighter. Just think about Melvin Manoel, for example. He was an incredible scary fighter. Because he can knock everybody out, but he can get beat by everybody. Rumble Johnson. That's right.

Rumble Johnson, another example. Scary, scary guy. One of the scariest ofble johnson that's right rumble johnson another example scary scary guy yeah one of the scariest of all time that's right that's right knocked out glover to share with one punch remember that to me khabib is one of the scariest too oh yeah because he's beating you down he's not only beating you know he's breaking you mentally and for me that is worse than anything for me is the scariest one pound for pound cabib is he the guy that you would come back for i would have like you would have it's all over you're done that's it i'm done it's three three years ago hey gsp it's dana white now listen i gotta fight for you now i'm gonna

explain to you if he if he wants me to fight, he needs to do it. That's how he needs to do it. He needs to hide himself, wait that I'm in a gym training. For example, when I was in LA with Freddie Roach, hitting the pads and getting back. Because I haven't done this because COVID, everything is closed in Montreal. But I went back and now I found my mechanic back. And when you hit, when you train

in mixed martial arts and combat sport, you become a different person, you know? And ta-ta-ta-ta-ta. And Freddie, look at me. He's like,

George, you get the hitch back. I'm like, ah, stop saying that. And if Dana White would walk in right now

in the gym in between rounds, I would sign the contract in a blink of an eye. But then after, I go back home, go back to Montreal in my comfort, and I'm like, hell no. There you are, working with Freddie. Yeah, and people are like, hey, are you practicing left-handed? I've always been both sides.

Yeah, I like how Freddie has a fucking, he's got a mask on his chin what's that protecting freddy take that stupid goddamn thing off and and you know i'm i'm left-handed because i always been left-handed it was a card that a secret card that i kept in my uh in my arsenal that i if i would have need to use it you switch yes i was going to switch perhaps with besping in the in the fourth round and oh really yes so you're more comfortable left-handed no more comfortable in the southpaw no i'm i'm i would say i've started more comfortable as a regular stand but because i do karate i always if you ask if you ask my coaches everybody knows karate i always if you ask if you ask my coaches everybody knows but i always fight one side because i believe it's a secret card that i that you can pull off and and surprise everybody but

you don't show your hand when you play a card you only show what you need to show to win the fight well you see that with wonder boy like wonder boy he's right-handed but he fights in my opinion at his best when he's right leg forward because he throws front leg kicks yes like that's one of the things he does like he oftentimes will he'll switch back and forth fluidly don't get me wrong he can fight well from both stances yes but when he's right leg forward you see a lot of those front leg kicks and that that's some of the most difficult shit to get through with that guy right yeah there's guys that has a lot of problems finding a southpaw yes there's guys like this which is everything yes it can change everything

yeah so that that's why it was for me a car a secret card that i kept in case you know like like i i would i would need it but unfortunately for me like bisping was very good with self-put as well. He knocked out Ruluk, Rockhole. Perhaps it's one of these things that I should have used earlier in my career, unfortunately. And I did not. Unfortunately, you're one of the greatest of all time. How about relax? I'm very critic about myself, Joe. It always can be better, right?

But that's always one of the reasons why champions are champions is that they are self-critical. If you just think everything you do is amazing and you don't have any room for improvement, I think some of the reason why champions become champions is this terrible discomfort of analyzing themselves and not liking certain aspects of what they're doing, finding flaws in their technique or watching a tape.

Ah, I shouldn't have got hit with that. Why is that? You get crazy and angry, and then you train harder. The people that are self-satisfied, they're really easily satisfied with their work. They never reach the level of champion because they don't feel that horrible discomfort when you're looking at yourself and you don't like what you see. Yeah, and my friend CT Fletcher says that that shout out to ct i love that dude he's the man iron addicts for life big big inspiration i love him and he says to me what the day that you're

satisfied choose to do something else yeah and it's a little bit what happened to me in fighting. I made peace with it. I wanted to come back for Khabib because it was, you know, for a fighter, the scariest thing sometimes is the most exciting thing to do. And it's a problem that never been solved before. But to come back for another guy and fight for another title, if I win, it's going to be another one after and another one and another one. And I'm going to turn 40 years old. And I hate to admit it, Joe, and I refuse to accept it,

but man, sometimes I think my best years might be behind me. Well, listen, you're retired. Oh, I just said it. It's okay. No, it's not okay. I'm not done. Are you done?

Dana, you're hearing him right now. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let's make it's not okay i'm not done but you are you done dana you're hearing him right now let's make it happen but khabib is done as well and khabib is uh what is he 32 i think khabib is 32 or 33 that's right so he's in his athletic prime how old is khabib find out how old khabib is i believe he's either 32 or 33 yeah but it's different for everybody some people reach their prime at 25 some people at 22 some people at 35 you know look at look at wow which is incredible 38 years old and he's dominating the light heavyweight division i think for khabib it was also a promise that he made to his mother and i think that's where it lies when his father died he told his mother this is going to be the last fight and then he fought justin gaethje yeah and he said that's it and i understand why because fighting takes a lot out of you and takes a lot of out of the people who loves you

yeah because you play basketball you play baseball you don't play fighting. And the outcome of a failure could be very, very bad. You know what I mean? It's not like you lose a game of basketball or something like that. You lose a fight. It can have huge repercussion on your health, your well-being, but also your income and your family and everything. Sure, like Stipe's loss to ngano when you watch that loss that that's a horrible price that he paid when he got knocked

out and you see him out cold and francis hits him with that hammer fist after all he caved him caved him with the left hook that's a horrible place to be if that's your child you think of khabib's mother looking at him and if that your child, that's a terrible thing to watch. That's right. But I think psychologically for a fighter, it's hard to come back from a knockout. But it's probably harder to come back from a fight where you've been dominated and broken for five rounds, like where you clearly know that you did not belong there.

You know, like Khabib, that's his style. That's why I'm saying he's the scariest guy. He can knock you out, submit you, but if he wins the fight, it's very less likely that it's going to be on a punch that clips you. It can happen, but it's going to be on a very dominant performance. He's going to maul you. Exactly. Yeah, my favorite fight of his, I think,

is the Edson Barboza fight because there's a moment in the bar, and Barboza at the time was so scary. He has, in my opinion, the fastest switch kick I've ever seen in my life. I've never seen anybody throw that left front lead kick as fast as Barboza. It's just like... Like a... It's so's so fast it's incredible like a slingshot

yeah his his kicking is some of the best I've ever seen in all my life but khabib just got a hold of him and mauled him and there's a moment in the first round where you see Barbosa looking up he's like he's just getting smothered on the ground he knows he's done. He knows he can't fuck with this guy. He can't keep him off of him. And that kind of, when you know you're always going to be second place, you're always going to be, you're never going to beat the champion.

And then you have to continue fighting. Like, there's that moment where you see a fighter who was a promising prospect early in his career, and then somewhere along the line, he accepts the fact that he's a journeyman. And then you see his body change. He starts looking like a little softer. His will change as well. He doesn't train as hard.

He fights to put up a good fight, but he doesn't fight to be the best in the world. And I always tell guys, if you're not trying to be the best in the world, you should probably get out. You can enjoy it. Don't listen to me. Do whatever you like.

If you enjoy just competing, if you're happy being someone who just competes and you're just trying to do your best every time, there's nothing wrong with that. That's right. But in my opinion, if you started out to be the best in the world and then somewhere along the line you changed

and you don't want to be the best in the world anymore, you just want to compete, just get out. Yes. Just get out. Because we've all seen the end of get out because we all seen the the end of that movie we all see the end of that movie it's a bad ending people only only seen only see the the one who made it the conor mcgregor the one that makes the big bucks there but it's a very sad movie it's a very sad the truth to the in the world of fighting you know you go to the hall of fame of boxing sometimes you see things like like you're like wow it's unbelievable like like like you wish you you

didn't see you know i mean it's very sad you know and and you need to compete only when you're in i believe if you want to maintain your well-being and your health, do it for yourself, but do it also for your family. If you don't do it for yourself, compete while you're in that window. After, get your chip, get out of here. I think it's really great that you still enjoy martial arts even after you're done fighting. You still love to train and improve. We were talking about the fact that you just trained with Freddie Roach. Before this, we were talking about how you're going to go to puerto rico and train with the donna her death

squad like you're going to go down and train with those guys you're literally going to go to a island to go do jiu-jitsu you know i i like the confidence that martial arts give me because i i i started when i was very young and it saved my life you know because I I've started when I was bullied in in school and it became and it became an habit and if I don't do it I'm not happy and I don't feel confident I remember when I was a kid I was looking at myself in the mirror and I didn't like myself. I didn't like what I saw in myself because I wanted to change my environment. And martial art taught me that if you want to change your environment, you want to change yourself, you need to love yourself first.

And I learned how to love myself I didn't love right away in the beginning who I was but I loved who I could become and I wanted to become that person that I visualized the idea George St. Pierre that I could become that's when I start training. That's when I start training. And that's when I start looking at people in the eyes instead of looking down. And when I shake someone's hand, I have firm grip. And when the teacher was asking a question before, I was always like this, always the last to answer.

Now I was taking charge. Hey, I know the answer. Five plus five, it's 10, for example. Yeah. I exteriorize myself. I got out of my comfort zone., it's 10, for example. Yeah. I exteriorize myself. I got out of my comfort zone. And it start building up my confidence. And, you know, like in life, the bully, it's like a predatory animal.

It will never hunt the strong alpha male. It will go for the weak. And it's the same thing. So I wish I could tell you I get out of my bullying because I kick all their ass because I've learned karate. But that's not how it happened. It happened because I gained confidence. And by gaining confidence, I became someone different. I became a different person.

And that's why I like to go to Puerto Rico to train. Because if I don't have martial art, if I walk to a place, perhaps it's the remnants of what happened in the past for me. I will not feel confidence. Maybe it left a scar in my mind. I'm not a psychologist, but perhaps that's what a psychologist will tell me. Because it left a big scar.

But I think that scar is a gift. It could be. I think it is with you. Because I think that scar forces you to continue to grow and learn and even though your your competitive career as a professional and as a champion may or may not be done depending on whether or not dana white shows up with a check you need to show up with a good check and at the right time so the money and the timing dana very important very important show up at wild card gym while you see him in the Southpaw stance.

But even if that doesn't happen, what's important is that that gift makes you constantly look to improve yourself. Because you know the benefits of that. Even though you would think, people listening to this go, wait, wait, wait. George St. Pierre is a confidence thing? You're one of the greatest of all time. If you have a list of the Mount Rushmore of great martial artists, you're on that Mount Rushmore, man. But still, you're honest.

And you're honest about your feelings on these things. And I think it's a very important thing for people to hear because there's a real great benefit for anybody in challenging yourself. It's a great benefit. And it doesn't mean that you have to be a world champion. Like as a martial artist, comparing yourself to who you used to be is what's important. Who were you last week and who are you now? Are you growing?

Are you getting better? Are you learning new skills? Because if you're not, you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to be challenging yourself. Yeah, yeah. I think that's the biggest benefit for me um you know like like and it helped me love myself you know what i mean i like to to be fit i like to be in good health and uh that's what martial art taught me and and it's something that changed my life you know that that's one of the benefits of course

if you look at competition in mixed martial art you know sometimes it has a very uh you know violent handling but what it can brings to an individual it's so much you know it's so much more positive than the what you see sometime on tv and i think it would benefit the bullies too i've always said like people say like what's the best way to stop bullying well teach everybody how to fight because a lot of the reasons why the bullies too. I've always said, like, people say, like, what's the best way to stop bullying? Well, teach everybody how to fight. Because a lot of the reasons why the bullies do it, because they're looking for some sort of external validation. They're looking to dominate people to make themselves feel better. But if they could just learn martial arts, the people that we know that are good at martial arts are some of the nicest people in the world.

Like jujitsu people in particular. They're so nice. Most people that I know that are just fucking stone cold killers. They're so friendly. They're so nice. You know, I grew up in Canada and I feel very lucky to grow up in Canada. But it's not sometimes because you grew up in a nice place that nice things happen. You know what I mean?

Everybody can face different adversity and i and and i think it's important to to love yourself to accept yourself as a person if in order to change your your your your surrounding and and it's very important in life and everything you know like if you want to if you want to do good you have to to look at yourself in the mirror and accept who you are and who and try to be who you want to become yes you said it once i i believe you said you know we talk about loving yourself sometimes you love yourself a lot a lot sometimes you don't right because we all do things that we regret sometimes nobody's perfect sometimes i look at myself in the mirror and I'm like,

man, I just did something very stupid. I don't really love myself. Sometimes I love myself a lot. But you said it like you're not the person who you were in the past. You're the person who you are now. And I remember I've learned that from you. And it was a great quote that inspired me. And it's the truth because we all learn.

Sometimes we talk about someone, oh, I don't want it. But that person is not the same that inspired me and is the truth because we all learn you know sometimes we talk about someone oh i don't want it but that person is not the same that you met in the past he perhaps is different perhaps it's better it's he's better or maybe he's worse you know maybe he's worse that's right yeah you have to internalize that that you just because you've made mistakes you are not the person who you were when you were at your lowest mistake. You have to realize those mistakes, although they're very painful, they're very valuable because they teach you how you want to never be again. If you don't experience yourself at a low point, you don't know how bad it is. You have to experience those bad moments to know like,

oh, I'm capable of complete total failure. That's right. Now I have to never have to like never allow myself to get to that place again and for many fighters there's there's fighters where they quit in a fight and then they they always quit but some fighters quit they're like i'll never fucking quit again yeah and they grow stronger because of that so sometimes people say well once a quitter always a quitter i say bullshit that's right because some some guys have quit and because of that they're more dangerous than ever because they had to go home and live with themselves because of that quitting and they fucking hate it so they train harder than

ever and they're terrified of that weakness so they're a horrifying fighter to face because they've faced the worst possible feeling you can feel sometimes the worst feeling you can face as a fighter is not loss, but failing yourself, knowing that you could have done more, but quitting. Joe, I'm happy I'm in Vegas because last time I'm in, you talk about quitting. Last time I came in Vegas, not in Vegas, I mean in Houston. Last time I came in Houston, I had a very bad memory of Houston. Matt Serra. That's when I got knocked out by Matt Serra. Tell me about that fight.

Houston was a nightmare for me. And now I have a chance to redeem myself. And I really loved Houston. Houston people are like, everybody's been so nice to me. The food is fantastic. But when I fought Matt Serra, you talk about quitting, I was blamed because everybody saw me at the time like the best new thing. And I was fighting a guy that the odds were incredibly in my favor.

I don't remember. I think it was 11 to 1. And when I lost, I got punched by a looping punch that I never saw coming. And I got dizzy. And I made the mistake to trying to Get back into the fight right away and boom boom boom. I end up on my back and I Knew that it was finished for me because I didn't know where I was So I turned on the side and I tap on strike and then a lot of people say oh you tap on skirt on strike

He's a quitter but people He tap on strike. He's a quitter. But people, sometimes they should understand, they should know when they're done. Why would I take unnecessary damage and be unconscious? I was able to save myself perhaps for another day. And those extra punches that perhaps I would have taken and knock me out cold would have made it in a way

that I would have perhaps, because the brain damage, never have to be able to come back and have the greatest run that I had after. So when you say you quit, it's true. It's not because you quit that it doesn't make you better. You know, like some people say he's a quitter, but you quit perhaps to save yourself. Maybe there's a reason. But the experience that I went through, it was the most humiliating moment of my career.

I wouldn't say to my life because I had worst thing in the past, but in my career, it was no doubt the most humiliating moment. And it was a nightmare for me. It became an obsession. It was always in the back of my head and I never wanted this thing to ever happen again. And then I remember during the fight of Carlos Condit, I got kicked in the head and I got dropped on my butt like this. And that scenario that happened with Matt Serra is playing in my mind. Sometimes in the fight, the time stops. And it's like in Rocky, you know, like you see it goes slow motion and you have time to think about stuff that seems to take more time.

So I'm in my butt and I see Carlos Condit coming to me and I'm like, I've seen this before. And I know now that if I try to stand up right away to get back in the fight because of my ego to show him that I'm not hurt and show the people that I'm not hurt I might get knocked out so I step on my ego I lean back I use the guard the shield to parry the punches and I'm able to survive it because now I know that it's the loss of Matt Serra and the experience that I gained from it that made me survive that kick to the head that Carlos Condit gave me isn't that interesting how that bad moment was so valuable that it's that kind of experience is so valuable there's very often in life negative experience that you don't understand at the time because you go to a depressive moment

but later on in your life you'll be like man that's that things helped me like when i was bullied in school i i was always complaining about myself and and you know it was a very negative experience for me but now i know that it helped me to deal with the mental warfare that i had to that i have to deal in my career in mixed martial arts yeah because in mixed martial arts it's a lot of mind games you know and i was able to put a shield on myself because of the experience i had in bullying you could say whatever you want to me. It would never affect me.

And of course, the UFC, the way they promote the fight, they would say, oh, I've never seen George St-Pierre like this. He's mad, he's mad. But that was bullshit. That was just promotified. Exactly, because the fight are promoted on emotions. But the fight are not won on emotions or won on mundane things that you do every day.

But there are moments in your career that I remember you being very angry. One of them was a BJ Penn fight. You almost stopped BJ Penn. The round ended. And you jumped up and punched the cage. Yes. Remember that? Yes.

You were still mad. You need to canalize your emotion when you fight. You need to be stoic no emotion but there's times that it's time to use your emotion but to use it to propel you to to to to use it to motivate you to be able for example to finish the round with more energy even though you're physically exhausted you use that those emotions to push yourself. But the emotion is a little bit like a fire. It can help you cook your food, but it can burn you. It's like fear.

Fear. If you have a huge ego, like I have an incredible ego. I'm very, very proud. I'm a very proud person, which helped me be a better fighter but also it's it's an issue with some time in life if i use my emotion when i get hit like i did for matt sero because i wanted to give it back to him right away i didn't like to be stunned i never been stunned in my life never it was the first time that i got stunned and for me it was humiliating humiliated he humiliate me so i wanted to give it back right away so we can shut everybody's mouth and you know that can say you see it was just a little mistake and

that's it but if you use it for that particular thing it could be a big mistake you need to canalize it and knowing when it's time to use your emotion you keep it inside of you and when it's time you let it let it explode isn't that interesting where some fights that people love are really not the way you're supposed to fight like a great examples arturo gatti and mickey warren oh god everybody loves those fights including me those fights absolutely i loves those fights, including me. Absolutely, I loved it. Those fights were amazing. But if that was one of my fighters, I'd be like, stop.

And then Arturo Gotti in the third fight, I think it was the third fight where he outboxed him, he fought smart. Yes. He stayed on his toes, moved around, he popped the jab, he did a lot of footwork and head movement, and he didn't brawl. And he won the fight by decision.

One of my favorite boxers of all time, the great Sugar Ray Leonard, did that mistake with Roberto Duran. He stood with him because he wanted to show him that he was a man. But then after he danced in the second fight, he clearly beat him up. No mas. Yeah, but Duran was fat for that fight. They took advantage of Duran. They knew Duran was fat for that fight they took advantage of duran they knew duran was partying so they got him a fight on short notice and he had to lose a lot

of weight and he had all these cramps and he just he fucked up roberto duran fucked up that's what it was i mean he got fat and he was way out of shape there's a lot of variables but in the first fight clearly sugary lantern he Leonard, he fought very well. But Duran won that decision. It was just the worst way to fight Duran. Exactly. You can't – I mean, it's good to be tough. It's something that when fights are very close can help you to have an edge.

Yeah, but don't be tough for no reason. Yeah, you shouldn't rely on it. Right. And especially in a fight, but especially in in training you should not rely on it i've you know we've seen we talk about guys like leaving their career in the gym like toughness is not a good thing in the gym yeah you're so right and it's so hard for people to separate themselves and just say no i'm here to work and to improve you know and then and the problem is you get tagged you're like oh you motherfucker and then the next thing you know, you're in a war in the gym. And you can only have so many of those.

If you have a punch card, this is your life. You have a certain amount of shots you can take where you get really rocked. You only have a certain amount. And if you want to give up all those in the gym, and we've all seen guys like that where they, you know, a great example is when Travis Luter fought Marvin Eastman. Did you ever see that fight? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He just connected with one punch, and it was like on the end of the punch, it didn't seem like the biggest punch, and Marvin Eastman went out cold. And it turned out that Marvin Eastman had been KO'd, I believe, twice in the gym leading up to that fight. And it's happened multiple times where you see guys get hit, and they go unconscious, and you're like, why did that guy go out so easy? And you go, oh, he got knocked out in the gym before the fight. Yeah, I think what you don't see, that's what knocks you out most of the time.

We talk about power, but precision and timing. But it's also with what I'm baiting you. I'm baiting you to look here, then boom, I come on the other side. Because while you're watching this, whom i come on the other side because while you're watching this you're blind on the other side and when you get hit a lot you have blind spot that accumulate in your vision and now we'll get into some some of what i call secret weapon stuff you know like like i'm you know some people have secret weapons secret knowledge knowledge. Knowledge is a weapon. I had a guy when I was training, when I was champion, during my welterweight run,

I had a guy in Montreal that was measuring frames. Nobody knows that. He was watching fight and he was making a frame with image. So when someone threw a punch click click click click and by doing that it was able to know who has better reaction times than others so if you watch my first fight with BJ Penn I had an horrible first round and that fight was very competitive, you know, all the way to the end. You know, like very, very tight fight.

I went into that fight without that knowledge. And normally when I was competing, I used to always be the fastest guy. When I fought BJ Penn, he was so freaking fast. He was in his prime. And I remember normally when I go first, I always touch the target. But BJ Penn, I couldn't touch him. He was so fast. My jab didn't work because he was always avoiding it and coming back with a counter punch or counter jab.

And he messed me up real fast. So I had to the second and third round i had had to change my strategy to wrestle him i won the fight by an inch after i met that guy that he's not a scientist he's a guy that does that for fun and he showed me what what he did and i thought it was just incredible it was was like a secret weapon, secret knowledge that nobody knows. He told me BJ Penn has the fastest reaction time of all the UFC roster that he could measure, and the way he did it is when you throw a punch or a kick,

how much frame it takes him to react to that body stimuli, stimulus. And I know that BJ Penn had the fastest reaction time, Lyoto Merchido by the way was second place yes, yes, but this over time can change because your brain can punch

so things change I'm talking about prime BJ Penn I know BJ Penn had the best reaction time but I know also he had a poor reset time and poor reset time is the guy told me that if I

when I fought BJ Penn the second time I knew that if I come into the fight I couldn't go first because he was too fast what I did is because the nervous system is like a muscle if you do a lot of a lot of reps you get tired fast you might be like a muscle. If you do a lot of reps, you get tired fast.

You might be like a sprinter at a very good start, but you will get tired fast. So when I fought BJ Penn, the first fight, when I tell you that when you fight someone, there's like a relation that happened up here that nobody sees around. When I fought BJ Penn, I was faking a lot, showing him all these creativity, all these...

In the second fight. Yes, because I wanted to load up his nervous system to make him tired, because I knew he had a quick reaction time, so he was flinching a lot. I was making him flinch and react. He was getting stiff and stiff and flinching because I want to get it out of his system.

So when he got tired and his nervous system is tired, now I could attack that's why my second fight had much more success against him and then in my first fight is this something that for us and you devised because i know for us talks about that a lot about uh overriding someone's like overwhelming their system. Yes. With complications, with possibilities. What you want to do is you want to load up his nervous system by showing him different things, different threats. Kick, punch, fake it. Fake anything you want to do that stimulates him.

If you stay in front of him and you don't move, that will not make him flinch, nothing like this. So you need to make him flinch, even if it's not real, but you need to make him react. And if you make him react, he will flinch and get tired. His nervous system will get tired and he won't. His reaction time will slow down. That's why I was able to get him. And that's why I was able to get him and that's why a lot of

i was able to figure out a lot of guys that i was fighting because we were we had that information that nobody has a lot of people have different you know tricks you know it's like i like a war you want to you know like the emmer the american had the atomic bomb you know like like in fighting we have that knowledge. So watching, studying film, and breaking down the amount of frames. Yes. Interesting. That's how we did it.

That's one of the secret weapons I had. And now I'm sure some other guys use it as well. Well, you had different approaches to different fighters too. It's really interesting. If you look at your career, you had a different approach to Tiago Alves. Then you did to Josh Koscheck then you did to John Fitch like every fight you came in with like a different strategy and a different approach yes and I knew also with that guy that certain people have

different blind spot for example if you look at Chuck Liddell you get cut off very often with the same the same, that same looping punch. My weakness for me, personally, I'm telling you, it was the things that comes from under. Because the stance I was always in, more like a karate stance, lower stance, wider. My stance was wider, ready for a takedown. Because I was kind of looking up a little bit.

And if you look up, the thing that comes from under, you don't see it as well. If you fight tall, you look down. The thing that comes from the top, you see it as well. So Chuck Liddell was more upright, things that come from the top and that that you can study this it's a blind spot and it's important to know it's very important to know and i'm aware of it when i decided to to make the comeback against bisping first it was luke rockle that was the the champion so i was you know nobody knew at the time but we were thinking about the comeback john when john brought me that that that idea we were thinking about how could we fight it

was luke rockall at the time and before luke rockall i i would never have made it because it was um chris weinman and chris weinman is a teammate is part of the same team i would never go up and challenge a guy from the same team. But when it was Luke Rockwell, I was looking at it. And we were starting to... Because I always like to be ahead of the curve. So I was trying to think about these kinds of stuff and study them. But then Bisping messed up all the plan.

And I had to re-switch and learn about Bisping. So it was an interesting time. But these are, when you talk about secret weapons that fighters have, secret knowledge, these are one of the things. And you don't talk about those things when

you're an active fighter. Right, right. Because you keep it for yourself. And now there is a lot of stuff that now I see a lot of other guys are are doing it but back in the day not much people did it like test with the eyes it helps for blind spot you had a doctor in montreal that does that you know like like beep beep beep beep beep beep like the beep test reactions to yeah i, I mean, there is no scientific proof. But I do believe it increase your reaction times.

And it can help with blind spot. A lot of people do things where they touch those lights. Yes. Like they have those light things and they do this just to try to increase reaction times. In Montreal, when I get ready for a fight, I have the same thing with lights. I see and I have symbols. Different symbols is different feet. Sometimes it's one left feet, sometimes it's right.

So because the feet, it takes more time for my nervous system to get the information and move my feet. So that's why the doctor told me he did it with the feet. However, I don't know if it clearly makes a difference because fighting is very specific. But what I can tell you for sure, and this is from my experiences, if I do that kind of training, because I've done the mistake before, if I do that nervous system training

and then I'm going to do a gymnastic, my next training is horrible. I have the worst training. So it burns your nervous system. And it's really true that this i can guarantee you from my experience that is the truth so i would never do that and go spar if it even though it's not a physically demanding but it's very taxing on the nervous system same way you overwhelm bj penn with the feints exactly so it's like my nervous system is

so tired that when i tried to do a like a half tuck flip i couldn't even do it i was all messed up and i remember i almost man i bro i almost hurt myself one time because of it i did this training and like two hours after i went to do gymnastic i almost hurt myself and my gymnastic coach told me i remember i say what's wrong, George? I said, I don't know, man. I think I've done my, we call it apex. I did the apex training, you know, for the nervous system and blind spot and reaction time.

I think I messed up, so I changed my training for something more slow, you know. But, man, I was really messed up. So that's why it's a real it's a real thing it's not fugazi if you fake the guy you make him flinch you make him react you stimulate his nervous system with all kinds of different threat he will get tired and that will work yes that makes sense it's a thing yeah young young fighters pay attention to this this is the future guys can you increase your endurance in that can like

as you do it over time you can do it more more easily more efficiently so once again you need to talk to a neurologist

a doctor that like that specialize in it but they believe that you can increase it and I believe personally that the best fighter

in the world are the ones that have the best fighter in the world are the one that have the best nervous system it's not about muscle it's about look guys some of some of the guys they they you know they they they don't look like greek gods you know stetsu you know like like but they do very well because i believe their nervous system you know they got good timing good reaction times that's a real thing i think it is a real thing and i think it makes sense that you could get better endurance at that just like you can get better at doing anything whether it's running or hitting the bag or sparring or jiu jitsu like it makes sense that if you just did those reaction

time drills over and over again it would increase your reaction time however i believe it's fighting is very specific you know doing this exercise with the the dot it might help your nervous system to be good at this game however if you want to be good at it for yes or fighters i think it can cross over a little bit but it's like a little bit saying that doing bench press will make me punch harder i do not think so you know it's like a little bit saying that doing bench press will make me punch harder. I do not think so. You know, there's certain fighters. What did you think about Max Holloway for, in my opinion, one of his finest performances was against Calvin Cater. And he didn't spar at all. And another one is Cedric Dumbé.

Cedric Dumbé, who fights for glory, who, in my opinion, is one of the greatest. Yeah, French guy. Amazing. He's one of the greatest kickboxers alive. He my favorite guy to watch in glory he's fucking incredible yeah all his training is physical training all his training is hitting the bag sparring uh hitting mitts uh doing uh sprints on like i saw him work out he came to my uh did my podcast and then i had my gym in my old uh in los angeles i had a full gym. So I had a treadmill, heavy bag, the whole deal. And so I got to watch them run through a typical training.

And everything is sprint recovery, sprint recovery. So he would get on. I had an air runner. You know what those are? The treadmill where it's self-propelled. Yeah, you have to move it yourself. So it's more difficult than a regular treadmill. So he's just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He treadmill. So he's just, he's like, time.

And then he's like, got 15 seconds. They put the gloves on him. And he's like, ready, go. He goes over to the back. So he has unbelievable resources in terms of his ability to sprint, recover, sprint, recover. So that's all his training. His training is all that.

All of his hitting pads. He told me he doesn't even have a fucking kickboxing coach anymore he does not spar no that there's he's super talented yes i know he is yes i know he is what i really enjoy watching fight and playful as well yes i think that's part of what makes him so good too. He's got a playful confidence to him. I think he sparred before many times. Oh, yeah. So the experience, it's a little bit like Jean-Charles Skarbowski, one of my coaches, told me it's like a bicycle. In the beginning when you start, you have to push hard, push hard, and then after it's very easy.

You just need to do it. I think that's how it is in combat sport. Where Skarbowski used to show up drunk, right? He showed up drunk to your place of the ultimate fighter when you had him coach people. It's one of my favorite clips on the ultimate fighter. That's right. He shows up with a drink, partying all night, shows up to train. He's fucking hammered.

And he gets in there, he's tripping people, dumping them, kicking their ass. That's right, because he's very efficient. That's why I believe if you're efficient, you need just to, you don't need to turn it on so much. You don't need to spar as much. And one thing I do a lot personally, I do not spar as much as people think. I do a lot of reaction drills.

Like, let's say you throw me a jab, I will practice, you know, like the parry, come back with the hook. So I learn how to read your body signature. And I do it, the more you do it with different people, the better you are at learning the body signature. That's why I add great takedowns. People think it's my wrestling that gives me those takedowns.

It's karate. And the drills that I do, the drills that I repeat. Yes, the blitz and also the fact that I'm not necessarily inspiring. I drill a lot with people. I have two kinds of takedownown that I really enjoy that I believe are very efficient and economical the reactive takedown and the proactive takedown proactive is when I myself instigate the takedown I will throw something to distract my opponent perhaps a jab because I like it it's one of my longest weapon against his nearest point, like Bruce Lee says.

Normally, it would be the Thai kick, but I use my jab for this. I jab his hand, and then I go because it's a distraction. This is the proactive takedown. The reactive takedown, it's when I bait him to throw punches and come forward to me. I bait him like I'm scared, like I'm fighting him and I'm playing like I'm scared. It's a relation that I have with the other guy. It's not only physical. I'm trying to make you believe that I'm scared. I'm here. So I want you to go and try to knock me out. Then, boom, I put you down. These are very important when you fight. You need to do these things. So I don't think when you have the experience, sparring is very important.

Because sparring is very different than the timing that you will face in the fight. However, I'm still saying that sparring is the most similar thing that you will have to face when you compete in mixed martial arts. You know what I mean? But it's still very different and i think also that when you are in great shape the thing is if you have a you're in great shape for a fight you know you will have more better creativity because when you get tired yes it's like a horse, you know, who has like a mask like this. Your creativity diminish. And you always go back to what you do best.

It's like you forgot all the other things. And we talked about like performance enhancing drugs and sometimes they say, oh, it's not the punch that knock you out. That's the favorite excuses of people who are cheating. But if you would not have used these things, you wouldn't have the physical abilities that you have, and perhaps you would have been shrink like this,

and you wouldn't have that creativity. So that's why, that's what I'm saying. And creativity is very important for a fighter. And sometimes creativity is linked directly with physical condition yeah yes yes that's what's what i found so interesting about cedric dume bay is being there watching him train at my gym i was like oh it was very enlightening because i see i've seen him fight before and he's fucking gas tanks incredible and he and he sees guys wither they start to wither and then he comes

on and knocks them out but it's because he can keep up a pace they can't keep up yes this is training it's fucking ruthless man yeah it's all sprinting it's all he's on a treadmill get to the back 15 13 14 go bang so his body is conditioned to have a much higher threshold for endurance than the average fighter who's just doing normal mitt work normal bag work normal road work everything he's doing is like sprint recovery and he has a really good physical trainer that came with him to the podcast and the guy waited and then afterwards they did their workout together and i got a chance to watch and I was like, oh, and you see how successful he is in glory.

He's fucking amazing. Yeah, but I'm sure he put on the work. Yes. He did his time in sparring so he is perhaps, if I make the analogy,

like on a bicycle but he climbed the hill already. Now he's just like maintaining by doing physical exercise exercise the same as max holloway like max holloway said that he goes look i already know how to fight i know i know how to do that i've already done that and if you look at max holloway's fights and all of his time in the gym and then his kickboxing fights before he ever fought an mma he's got all this striking and all

this timing already down so for him it like, why take the big hits? Like, he understands it now. It's mostly reaction drills and endurance. And Max is another one. Tremendous endurance. And also, tremendous ability to take a punch. Like, it's one of the most underrated things about Max that people forget. He's never even been knocked down.

And he's been in wars. He has a tremendous chin. And I think part of that chin, particularly in the fights, the most recent fights, is the fact that he's not taking any damage in training. Yeah, Tony Ferguson is another one. I saw him in wild card. He says, hey, he doesn't spar apparently. And he's an amazing fighter.

You know what I mean? Also, another thing, we talk about brain damage. It's also the volume. A lot of guys, I think, and that's one thing I realized, I think I did too much. We have this tendency of always wanting to do more and more, but more is not better. More intelligent is better.

You got to know when to pull it back. Yes, you burn yourself out. And that's one thing too if the fight in mixed martial art is 15 perhaps 25 minute you want to know how much intensity you can give for that amount of time not for two hours right you know what. You know what I mean? Right, yeah. And this is where the training differ in, for example, in jiu-jitsu, wrestling, and mixed martial art. And that's when you need to be smart.

I believe if you get accustomed to a jiu-jitsu pace, when you compete in mixed martial art, you might have a hard time to adapt because jiu-jitsu it's a slower pace you know it's it's not as dynamic right one thing i did to get ready for my fight with michael bisping to make me more opportunist johns was making me do three minute rounds so instead of doing five minute rounds because you're never gonna spend an entire five minute on the ground in MMA.

It's very unlikely. Normally, you'll have like three-minute rounds. And then you have like perhaps like I was taking a minute off, then another guy three minutes. So it made me roll at a higher pace, more opportunist. So when I was switching partner, I knew I had only three minutes. I was giving everything I had in three minutes because I wanted to submit him. I was more hungry.

And I knew after that I could recuperate and do the same thing to the next guy. But if I'm going with a guy of five minutes, man, I know if I submit him, I have another, you know, another maybe two minutes left. So I'm going to cast out. I submit him, I have another, you know, another maybe two minutes left. I'm going to cast out. So I become, I made myself used to a different pace. And that's what I believe.

And same thing in wrestling. In wrestling training, in wrestling competition, you spend hours in competition. Then you have a match, then you relax. Then you have another match. So the wrestling training that I have in Montreal, that's how it's designed. It's normal because it's for a wrestling competitor. However, for martial art, especially when my fight is coming up, I need to modify that. So I don't stay as long in the room as the other guys.

I get there, do my warm-up, do my matches, my live match, shake hand, thank you, bye-bye. Same thing in jiu-jitsu. When I was getting ready for Michael Bisping, I was going with some of the monsters from the squad. You know, Gordon Ryan, Gary Tonin, Jake Shield was there. I had an incredible elite team with me. It was unbelievable. I was very well prepared. So if I would have had perhaps the same opportunity I had with that choke,

maybe I would not have been willing to take it if I would have had it earlier in my career because I was more on a slower pace, pace so to speak you know what i mean i was more on a control pace ground and pound instead of a finishing that rear naked choke that you hit on michael bisping is one of the best rear naked chokes i've ever seen it was perfect yes it was so tight too and it wasn't like this right with the hand with the palm on the back of the head reverse it was perfect it was so sunk in man yeah it was so sunk in it was so nice that the people make a they make the mistake sometimes when they have a rear naked choke they go like this

and also they try to pull you don't want to pull you want to crunch your abs yeah and that's but i think i was able to do that because the way that my training was designed it was it was I became more opportunist yeah I was more I had more like a killer's instinct and sometimes guys tend to say that oh you lose that with time but I think you can get it back it's just the way you design your training and if you always go with training partner who are just as good or better than you it will make you practice your defense and it might decrease your creativity in offense in a way that you know because if you know if you if you try something that miss you might get cut

right so i believe even if you're a champion if you're an elite you need to go with guys that are your level but also guys that are not as good as you eddie bravo always stressed this he always said the best way to get good at jujitsu is to spar with blue belts roger gracie when he moved to england that's when he became so successful because he was training with people that had no business being on the mat with him. Exactly. So he got reps. Man, his offense got so much better. And I remember at that time,

a lot of people thought that his level would decrease because he moved to England. Right. It went the opposite way. Right. And I remember when I first started my career in mixed martial arts, I didn't have any training partner to go with.

I had David Loiseau. I had patrick cote i had dennis gang once a week we used to all the all the canadian fighter we used to meet once a week and train and spar and then see you next week and if you had a bad training session that friday it messed up your whole weekend anyway for me that's how it was because I became obsessed. I was like, man, I'm going to get him next week. And you start thinking about all what you should have done. And then the next week you redeem yourself, you know. But that's how it was.

You know what I mean? Like what I was saying, I was talking about, yeah, so you don't need to always go with good guys all the time. So I had these guys on Fridays, but the other days, I was going with guys that are maybe, he's an engineer, that guy is a janitor, they were my sparring partner. And that's how I developed my takedown dream. My timing for my takedown. That's how I developed my confidence, my timing. Because these guys were not my level. But they were, you know, I did one round with one,

then a fresh one come. And later in my career, perhaps I become more conservative as a fighter because I start going with guys my level. So it makes me train in a way that if i try something new i might miss and they're gonna make me pay the price so i know i'm not gonna do it and your training is always reflecting about the fight will go i believe yeah and as you're saying earlier that like you have to learn to be playful it's easier to be playful when you're going with someone who's not quite at your level.

You have to have a varied diet. You have to have people that are elite where you have to know what it feels like to be in there against an elite fighter, but also people that aren't as elite so you can practice things. That's right. I think you need to have a big range, a variety of training partners. Yes. Because if you're used to have different training partners of a variety of training partners because if you if you're used to have different training partner the bigger is your range the better you will be able to adapt

and become the perfect nemesis of different kind kinds of style oh a a smaller stockier opponent or a long longer bigger reach guy you know like like yes and it and i think it's good also to make it playful but to make your your your training partner also that it's you know like it's it's a game it's not you're not there to it's not about an ego yes exactly did john donahue come up with this idea of you sparring for three minutes instead of five i No, I did. You did. You just decided that the pace was not fast enough? I talked to John, and John agreed on it. And I've started doing it in Montreal. And I always ask John, if John would have told me he disagreed,

I would have obeyed to John. Because I think it's important when you're in a training camp, you cannot be the boss. You have to get out of your comfort zone. I agree. We talked about Conor McGregor, his last loss. I think Conor can come back like he was, and perhaps better than he was.

You had good advice about that, though. You need to get out of his comfort zone. He cannot be the boss. Because it's easy when you're wealthy, you're healthy, you're wealthy, you got everything you need in the world. You know, you're not hungry anymore, but you need to be willing to do that. It's a sacrifice that need to be made, especially at the elite level. I think someone on the outside needs to look at what you're doing. You can't look at it objectively yourself.

You need someone analyzing, someone who you implicitly trust I agree I agree because sometimes it's hard to look at ourselves in the mirror and know know ourself you know we need to when you have a big ego like Connor yes so you know for good reasons I mean he's very confident but it's because of his success and because of his ability he understands what he's capable of but I don't think that's enough we say sometimes that you don't want to fix something that is not broken but i i think it's it's wrong i think you you when you're on top you need to fix something that that that that is not broken because otherwise the sport will catch up to you you need to innovate and if you stay there if and you the sport will catch up to you you know what i mean of course

connor he's not champion and he had a few losses but you need to have a reality check if you want to to stay there and be successful i believe you know and it's broken it's broken like if if it's not broken don't fix it well it's broken it is so you have to fix it. I mean, Dustin clearly broke it. And the low calf kick was never a weapon that was very popular when you were champion. Yeah. Is that fascinating to you that this one thing has emerged that's been one of the most important weapons to learn how to avoid and block and implement? Yeah, it's because a lot of of guys their striking background come from uh muay thai and in muay thai it's not really used because the the legs are the stance is more narrow so if the stance are more narrow you can lift and shield it easier however in mma the octagon is is

much bigger the surface which you fight on is bigger so in order to have a better mobility most fighters they adopt a wider stance which increase your mobility however it has a profound effect on how you can shield the kick i believe the best way to deal with with that kick is either get out or either step blitz in with a counter. Or I developed one that you lift your heel. You completely turn the opposite way. You go with your heel. I was talking to Bas Rutten about it on a shoot.

How so? In what way? In Los Angeles. So let's say you don't have time to shield it because you see it coming too late. What you do is you turn around and it's like a little bit like you want to, like an hamstring exercise, you want to lift your heel to your butt. You go here. It's like the person will hit your foot and might hit your heel.

And it works. I've done it. It works. And so you let them sort of kick you and let your leg move with it. Yes. I'm from karate background so for me that's the way i would i would react you know perhaps someone who's from a different background it won't it won't work as well because i like my to stand wide i like to

have better mobility so it's either you see it coming you step out if you're out if you're too too much too close you step in you blitz in i've done that many times in my fight and if you're out if you're too too much too close you step in you blitzing i've done that many times in my fight and if you're in the middle range and you don't have time you you simply kick your heel up so people so people will kick your foot yeah and it works i've done it it works interesting yes so if you are fighting someone who's standing orthodox and you're standing orthodox your left leg would be in front and you would just pick it up and they would kick your heel instead of kicking your calf. Yes, and it's a fast move because if you try to shield it, you don't have enough time. This movement, because the posterior chain of the leg, the muscle of the posterior chain are much more fast twitch than the the the one forward when you sprint you use your your hamstring you don't use your quad you know so when you you when

you see something you need to react quick you go with the the hamstring and the glute and and you do that movement it it's much quicker than trying to shield this some guys are doing a good job of turning their foot outside though and catching it on the shin instead of catching it on the calf like did you see uh pedro muñoz versus jimmy rivera good fight right but pedro muñoz was landing the calf kicks but then when jimmy rivera was trying to hit him pedro was turning his foot outward and catching it right on the shin yeah and it discouraged jimmy from throwing as many kicks, and it was just more effective for Pedro

because he was checking them. That would work too. However, depending on your background, once again, I'm from karate background, so I'm used to fight sideways because karate is designed for street fight. Yeah. You want to protect your center line.

Yeah. If you do that in a street fight, they will kick you in the balls, you know, because your center line is all open so when you fight like me it would be hard to do because I won't have enough time to turn like that it depends everybody is there's

some techniques that will work for you better than it will work for me and vice versa you need to find what is good for you. I still think to this day that the most underutilized technique in MMA that i think will eventually be more utilized is the front leg techniques you see it with with wonder boy particular he's really good at like throwing side kicks and keeping guys off and front leg round

kicks there was guys when i was doing taekwondo that were so fucking good with their front leg you couldn't get close to them and i always always felt like, man, if those guys could learn everything else, if those guys could learn Muay Thai, if they could learn takedown defense and jiu-jitsu, they'd be devastating because their front leg was so good. There was a guy named Larry Jones, and I used to spar with him all the time, and Larry's legs went all the way up the fuck up to here. They went up to his tits.

It was crazy. He had the longest legs. I mean, his upper body was like a normal length, but he was like 6'3 three but it's all long legs and when larry would spar people he was really light on his foot and relaxed and he would stand sideways and you were terrified of his front leg you couldn't get close to him because it was like a jab it was so fast it's fascinating that you just said joe because what you just said it's bruce lee like talks about it like in his books like when he says you use your longest weapon against my nearest the nearest point of

my opponent like a jab yeah like you're a sidekick to the tie to the knee i mean that's what it is yes i truly believe that in martial art, there is three different dimensions, right? They're the competitor, like I do, like in UFC. It's the real thing, you know? It's about timing. There's the choreography, like what you see, for example, on TV, the stuntmen. They are incredible. They do stuff that I cannot do.

They are the best in their field. And there's also the philosopher. I would say Bruce Lee. Yeah, of course, he could do the two other dimensions. And when you're a martial artist, I think you have all three dimensions, but there is one that you're mostly better at. And Bruce Lee, I believe, what he brings to the world was his philosophy. I think he's known because of his philosophy.

Not necessarily because Hollywood made him like a fighter and everything, but I think the truth is that his philosophy is really the thing that really changed the world. It changed my life. It could be a good fighter,

but sometimes people say hey what happened if you would put him in ufc i don't think times has changed since then even the the guys that used to compete in ufc in the first few ufc you cannot put them in there in the octagon right now true it would apply to bruce lee as well but his philosophy man that was brilliant i think people don't understand how revolutionary it was. Because in the 1970s, when Bruce Lee was doing Enter the Dragon, the people that were martial arts practitioners were convinced that their style was all you needed to learn.

When I was doing Taekwondo, my instructor would tell me, I would go to a boxing gym and train with boxers. And they would tell me, you don't need to do that. You can work your hands here. I'm like, can I though? Because I'm going to the boxing gyms. I i'm getting fucked up my hands are not as good like i need to learn with people that are really good boxers so i would go and train with professional boxers and then i was realizing all the flaws in my technique i wouldn't have learned that in the gym and then i would go and train with judo guys and i'm like oh i didn't know it's so easy to

throw me around like you need to know and the only way to know is to go to these different places but bruce lee back then put everything together i was watching um my daughters did martial arts when they're younger but um they're not really into it anymore but sometimes i'll watch movies with me and shit and i was uh watching uh enter the dragon the opening scene of enter the dragon when he's got the mixed martial arts gloves on remember is there that one with bolo bolo young yes oh yeah he's got they look like mma gloves and this is you know in the 1970s and he wins by an arm bar yeah it's kind of it's a it's a yeah it's a bullshit arm bar yeah it's a it's the worst arm bar i ever seen but but listen it it was just it was ahead of his time.

Yes, well, there was a lot of armbars in the early UFCs that were bullshit too. That's right. Other than Hoyce. Here it is, man. Like, watch this scene. Look, I mean, look at his gloves. Is that Bolo Young next to him? Yes.

Man, he doesn't have his chest. I don't know if that's Bolo. No, that's not Bolo. No, it can't be Bolo Young. But Bolo's in the movie, right? I'm going to tell you something. I think he's in it later. I'm going to tell you something.

But Bolo's in the movie, right? I'm going to tell you something. I think he's in it later. I'm going to tell you something. Bolo Young is the best villain ever in all martial art movies. He's unbelievable in blood sport and amazing. Look how shredded Bruce was, too. Woo!

He was shredded. That's right. He had no body fat. But he was so fast and his movement was so interesting. And there was nothing like it at the time. He was ahead of his time. He was like the greatest of his time, 100%. But there's innovators and you can't compare them to people that have learned and already moved past his footsteps because he carved the path. He carved the path.

And by the Tao of Jeet Kune Do, if you read that book, and I read that book cover to cover like 20 times, he combined martial arts in a way, he said, absorb what's useful, take what's useful, and throw out everything else. And there were so many martial artists that hated him because of that, because of what he was saying was like, that it didn't matter if you were doing karate or if you were doing Muay Thai, whatever it was, just find out what works and put them together, put them all together. And people did not like hearing that back then, because if you were running a karate school, you were trying to tell your students, this was all you needed to learn. That's it. But he knew. I talked to Gene LaBelle and Gene LaBelle taught him about grappling. And one of the things that Gene LaBelle did when they first worked together,

Gene LaBelle grabbed him. You know, Gene LaBelle was a fucking massive guy. He was built like a bear and phenomenal judo player, national champion, elite of the elite. He grabbed a hold of Bruce Lee and Bruce Lee was like,

oh shit. Like he realized, like I'm helpless against this fucking gorilla. Yeah, yeah. And then Gene showed Bruce Lee judo, and he showed him submission techniques. That's right. He showed him all that stuff,

and Bruce was super open-minded to that. We cannot compare. Sometimes we talk about who's the greatest. It's the same thing in basketball. Because I think it's Einstein who says, we stand on shoulders of giants. All the progress that have been made, the mistakes that have been made in the past,

the progress, we've learned from it. So we already start nowadays. We already have a head start on the people in the past. I think that's with everything. We cannot compare. So people always in every interview, they ask me, who's the GOAT? Who's the GOAT?

And I was surprised. And I said, for me, the GOAT is Royce Gracie. gracie and people are like yeah but you put him in the ring right now i'm like of course you put him in the ring it would be a different story yeah the fighters of today are better than the fighters of yesterday and as good as the fighters are are today sorry to disappoint the one that are watching and if i heard some ego, but in the future, they will be better. They will be better. We cannot stop the progress. I remember, Joe, to learn jujitsu, like 20 years ago, like more than 25 years ago, to learn jujitsu, I need to drive to New York, you know, to be physically present in the class.

Now I can grab my cell phone and learn a technique from a guy who's in Australia. Yeah, yeah. And now there's things that I worked on this weekend. There's like holograms. This is going to be the future of the sport. Holograms. Holograms.

So you'll be able to turn, to zoom in, to check on dirt, where he put his, I was with Kevin Lee. We work on stuff oh that's what they were talking about i saw you and kevin in front of a green screen yeah so so that's gonna be a game changer i told the guy that he's he wanted to do exclusively for sports you know for for games but for instructional this is this is a game changer And I don't think the athletes get better. I don't think Usain Bolt is necessarily better than Jesse Owen in the 100 meter.

I think he has access to better knowledge, better technology. That makes him have better performance. It's the same thing in fighting. However, in fighting, it's very subjective because we cannot measure. We don't have any instrument of measure. So it's always, oh, it's Ali against Tyson, who would have

won, like, oh, St. Pierre versus Usman, or, you know, like, they make comparison, stuff like that. However, it cannot be made, but normally, general idea is that the future

is always better than the past, and that's how it is. And if I don't agree with that, that means I insult the entire UFC roster, I insult the entire NBA, the entire NHL. That's what I believe. I think you're 100% correct,

and I think the quote, we stand on the shoulders of giants, that's's what I believe. I think you're 100% correct. And I think the quote, we stand on the shoulders of giants. That's really what it is. You don't get to where we are today without Hoyce Gracie, without Bruce Lee, without the steps of all these people, without Matt Hughes, without George St. Pierre, without all, fill in the blank, Randy Couture, Tito Ortiz, all those fighters, they paved the way. And the young fighters that were watching them when they were children, they learned from watching these guys compete and perform. And in jujitsu, it's a great example. Gordon Ryan is the greatest jujitsu player of all time. I agree 100%. And he's only 25. Yeah, it's fucking crazy. Right. But also,

why is he the greatest? Well, he's the greatest because John Donaher is a brilliant instructor, and John Donaher came straight from Henzo Gracie. Henzo Gracie, who's a cousin of Hoyce, who's also one of the greatest of all time and one of the innovators. Like, all this, the Gracie family, and all the lessons learned from the early days of mixed martial arts gets transferred to John Donaher and his genius mind, and then he finds this guy who's a fucking savage who's willing to put in the time

in Gordon Ryan and then you see Gordon did you see his last match oh yeah down on a piece of paper how he was gonna submit he wrote a triangle on a piece of paper and he handed it to the commentators and he said open that up after the match is over and then he plays with wagner and then submission submits him with a triangle but incredible this this yeah gordon gordon is my friend and this could be also by deduction when you talk about preparation how good someone can be prepared it's because he knew how his strength would match can be prepared.

It's because he knew how his strength would match versus his opponent. That's when the genius comes in, like John Donaro, Gordon Ryan. And Gordon is amazing, man. He's the best. Right now, I ever roll with

like all size. He's the best I've ever seen. The best ever. I've never seen anybody better. But as good as he is, watch out for his little brother, Nicky. Oh, he's a beast. And you know why they're so good is john john is a phd in philosophy he's incredible like he used to teach

at columbia university and all his academic background experience he brings that into martial art that's why for me he's the best teacher ever. Also, he's a seven-day-a-week guy. I talk to him. I go, seven days a week. Morning to night, my friend. Every day. I go, you guys don't take any day off? He goes, no.

I go, what do you do for recovery? He goes, you just train less hard. Yeah, that's right. I'm like, Jesus Christ. I go, Christmas? He goes, Christmas, New Year's, birthday, every day. You can do that in jiu-jitsu, Joe, but you cannot do that, I think, in a sport like with boxing or a more dynamic sport.

You cannot do that because it would have a profound effect on your body and how you recuperate. I think you're right too in terms of your tissue. We talk about how white people get gets better we talk about knowledge you know one of the one of the greatest uh role model for me was wayne gretzky wayne gretzky and i saw i saw him in canada it's our national sport he was incredibly humble his record i think he's one of the athletes, all sports combined, that I can say for certainty, or almost for certainty,

that his record will never be broken during my living. Really? Yeah, he's that good, bro. He's amazing. I don't know jack shit about hockey. However, if you would put him right now on the ice, I don't think he would do that well. Because for his time, when you talk about the GO the goat we don't talk about the prison time we talk about

how was he for his time so who he was competing against depend what what goat mean it doesn't mean for his time or it means like right now because if we talk about right now it will always be a guy from the present and man he used to start he used he's the first guy like to start to go behind the goaltender net to start a play now you see it he was the first before him nobody did that before and he revolutionized the game so now they stand on shoulders of giant now you see that every every day but he was so special because he had it figure it out in the beginning and what makes him so great it's not because he was faster stronger than everyone else it's because of his iq his hockey iq yeah so so this is something that when you talk about sport we always tend to say oh he's

so athletic but i think when you say athletic, of course, we talk about muscle, speed, and everything. But athleticism is also how your brain can adjust to things, how your learning capacity. That has a lot to do with athleticism. How fast can you learn a movement pattern? How fast can you adapt to certain situation to solve it this is athletic athleticism as well and how quickly can you access the techniques yes how deep is your database if i had to pay money for any matchup ever i would pay so much money for hicks and

gracie versus gordon ryan i know a lot of people would say they would have a lot of different fights they would like to see between you know john jones and this and that oh that's all good for me i love all martial arts but i'm most perplexed by the people that stand out as being above and beyond and in hickson's time you talk to any black belt from hickson's time and they're like hickson was the best no one could touch Hickson Hickson would line these black belts out and line them up and do a seminar and tap them all one after the other one after the other you think it's true or is because it's part of the no legend no it's true it's true because John Jock Machado told me Wow I know it's true I know it's true because John Jock is he's as honest as the day

is long john jock never lies about anything he tells you and he always says man hickson will fuck you up that's what he always said he goes hickson was different it was different i gotta ask you a question to put you on the spot i mean you cut it if you wanted to. Okay. I heard rumors about a fight with you and Wesley Snipes. But it didn't happen. It was supposed to happen. Really? Yeah, yeah. Man, I wish.

Man, people ask me about that. I was like, man, Joe Rogan. Because you're a comedian, people don't know that you have a legit martial art background. You got the best spinning back kick I've ever seen. And people, when they talk to me about it, they say, yeah, but he's a legit martial art background. You got the best spinning back kick I've ever seen. And I would have, like people, when they talk to me about it, they say, yeah, but he's a good martial. I'm like, man, Joe Rogan all day, man. Let me tell you, like, this is different.

I've done movies, and when you do movies, it makes you look good. But when you do it for real and do it for the camera, it's two different things. I would have loved to see this. Well, I think he just needed money. You know, he was in a bad situation where he owed taxes and the government they put him in jail you know he got put in jail for tax evasion i think he had bad advisors and sometimes advisors will tell you like there's a law and you don't have to follow that law because and i think that's what happened

with wesley and i'm a fan of his by the way i love blade it's one of my favorite superhero movies of all time i think he's great and he's a legit martial artist it wouldn't have been easy but i also knew that he didn't have any jiu-jitsu training and i was like i know how to kickbox i know i fought i fought a lot of taekwondo tournaments i fought some kickboxing matches i'm like i know how to strike if he doesn't know any jiu-jitsu at the time I was a brown belt. I was like good luck. I'm gonna grab you It's a fuck are you gonna do if I grab you like it's I don't think people understand how helpless you are

If you're not trained in jiu-jitsu or even if you're a blue belt Have you trained with a guy who's a legit brown belt or a black belt? I just not knowledge is a weapon. It's like even if you're the best boxer in the world you flood my weather and It's like I take Floyd my weather and I bring him to fight in the pool in the water If it Floyd doesn't want to swim it would be the same analogy that taking someone that doesn't have any Jiu-jitsu background if the fight goes to the ground Which is very likely because you need in an MMA in a street fight You need to go on the ground to finish your opponent if he falls down, right?

Right. And there's also so many other elements. You know, it's just... Did you ever see when Vince Phillips fought Masato in K-1? I don't think so. Vince Phillips, cool Vince Phillips, was a bad motherfucker. He was an elite boxer, world champion boxer. See if you can find that.

See if you can find that online you can find that uh on online i think it was in k1 and masato was at the peak of his game there it is and so vince phillips at the time was a little older i think if i remember correctly i think he was in his later 30s but vince phillips was a fucking elite professional boxer world champion champion, and Masato, oh, he's 44. Yeah, a little too old for that, unfortunately. So it would have been interesting more so if they fought in their prime, but Vince was still very fucking good. But Masato just lit his legs on fire.

Oh, man. And Masato, at the time, Masato's one of the greatest Japanese kickboxers of all time. I mean, he was fucking elite, man. And his leg kicks were phenomenal. And so he just moved around. And if they had a boxing match, I think Vince would have fucked him up. But they didn't have a boxing match. Masato just kept chopping at those legs, moving away, moving away.

Boom, look at that. Moving away, moving away, moving away. Boom. You change the rules. You change the game. I remember Tim Silvio versus uh in mma the ray mercer yeah mercer knock him out but you know why because it was stupid from silvio tried to make him make it a boxing match well do you know what the rule you know what happened

no i don't know what here's what happened they were supposed to have a boxing match here's what happened here let's just watch real quick boom timber this is what happened they were supposed to have a boxing match but the athletic commission wouldn't sanction a boxing match because tim sylvia didn't have any boxing matches and ray mercer was a gold medalist in the olympics and a world champion so they're like there's no fucking way even though ray mercer was older they said there's no fucking way you're gonna fight tim sylvia in a boxing match. So they said, what about a mixed martial arts match? Well, okay.

Well, that makes more sense because Tim Sylvia was a world champion in mixed martial arts, and you're a world champion in boxing. Okay. So they sanctioned that fight, but they made a gentleman's agreement. The gentleman's agreement was they would just have a boxing match with the little gloves on. But they opened up the fight. Watch how they opened up the fight. Tim Sylvia leg kicks him. And look at Ray Mercer. He's like, what the the fuck because he he's like i thought we had a rule

and so that's why he was so angry after the fight was over because they weren't supposed to kick but tim sylvia opened up and he hit him with a leg kick look see how he's like what the fuck is this he's like what the fuck is this because they's like, what the fuck is this? Because they had an agreement. I didn't know that. Yes, they were going to have a boxing match, but with the little gloves on. It's like these fights are mismatched. You see Randy Quintana versus James Toney. Yes. If you're James Toney, what the hell are you thinking, man?

James Toney needed money. That's what that was. James Toney needed money. I remember interviewing James Toney before the fight. And I'm like, did you practice any kicks like yeah practice all these kicks i'd practice side check kick he was making kicks up that didn't even exist he's like yeah i'm training don't worry about it i'm training randy randy went for a low single and a low single and there's no shoes to grab the only thing you need to do is to turn

turn your your kneecap facing the other way and just step out like it's the most ridiculous thing to do like like to escape but because it's not it's outside of his frame of reference i don't think he did i honestly i watched him train on video at least with it looks like he was training with a karate guy like he was he was hitting some pads and stuff and throwing some like like here's the yeah yeah i mean but also randy was an elite wrestler and also an elite world champion mixed martial arts fighter got on top of james and hit him a bunch of times and then mercifully arm triangle them if i remember correctly i believe it was an arm triangle he submitted them with yeah yeah but now now they do more and more of

these uh match of like you have a jake paul versus ben askren yeah here it is arm triangle yeah that was what it was i i asked uh freddie roach because you know like like i train with freddie roach i say uh you train because they make it look like they they train you train ben askren like the whole camp he said he came only for a week well i know he's training with duke rufus you know duke is obviously a very good striking coach and look ben is a world-class wrestler yeah i mean at in his prime he was one of the best wrestlers that america had to offer he's a elite wrestler yeah he's also older and he's got a lot of mixed martial arts experience but none of that was

as a striker his striking was really just a distraction in order to get you down. You take away all his favorite weapons. Yes, true. This is not fair. It's weird, though, because he's clearly an elite competitor. And you could say, oh, Masvidal knocked him out. Let me tell you something. That fucking knee would have knocked out 99% of the human beings that have ever lived that knee was perfect yeah i mean masvidal is a slick guy he's a slick clever guy and the way he

did that by leaning up against the cage and then stepping off to the side so that askren follows him yeah and then he moves forward askren couldn't resist yeah his natural instinct is to just dive on the single or dive on a double just get those legs and try to take him down perfect bait oh it was amazing perfect timing and you see in his training that he practiced that over and over and over again you know they showed the video of of mazudal practicing for that very scenario um but other than that he's fought a lot of elite strikers and not gotten knocked out like if you look at his fights when he fought douglas lima or koroskov when he fought those guys in bellator i mean he he did very well but he was allowed to wrestle how was he going to do in an actual boxing match i mean i never, just be honest,

I've never thought of him as being a good striker. He's a guy that just kind of uses his hands to get a hold of you. It's a different muscles too, you know? Like when you're a wrestler, it's all about pulling, you know what I mean? And driving. Boxing is way more dynamic, you know?

And he's an Olympic wrestler, you know what I mean? The reason why he had so much success, I believe, Ben Askren, it's because when he was in his prime, nobody could figure out how... They know how technically make it in a way that the odds would be in their favor, but they couldn't do it. You know what I mean? They knew that the secret to beat him was to keep it standing up and keep distance. But they couldn't stop the shot.

They couldn't do it. Everybody knew what he was going to do, but nobody could stop it. And now you take that away from him. It's going to be hard for him. I just hope what I found sad sometimes, I just hope, man man and I really do hope that it does not make us look but I hope Ben is training hard and you know at least you know like like when is that if I assume isn't it two weeks yeah the problem is he doesn't like it's hard to frame this credit okay Freddie Roach I asked him because if I thought that if one guy can help him the best,

it's Freddie Roach. So I told him, where is Ben? You're training Ben. And he says, Ben, he came only one week. I was disappointed. I said, shoot. I hope he has a right. He's surrounded by real boxers.

Because the world of boxing and the world of mma is a different different world yeah you need to look pretty good there though it sounds like pretty good yeah but everybody is champion on the pad joe you know everybody you never know good way to put it yeah man everybody's a champion in the past you see guys i i had four four amateur boxing fight you know i'm four and oh and boxing and i remember before every boxing amateur boxing fight you know i'm 4-0 in boxing and i remember before every boxing amateur boxing fight you know that you watch the guys you're gonna fight i was in a hoping division so they i was fighting guys that had multiple fight record so i look at them they all look good on the on the pad the same thing in mma because they're used to the the rhythm you know so everybody's champion but that's when you

fight it's a different story i just hope he put on the work and sparred otherwise. It's gonna look bad You know it's gonna look bad for all the the athlete not only in MMA in boxing But Jake Paul is a real boxer right yes. Yeah legit boxing fight in amateur right him or his brother Well, he's only had a couple of fights, but in the way he looked again. What was that guy's name Nate? What's his name Jamie Nate Robinson the way he looked against – what was that guy's name, Nate? What's his name, Jamie? Nate Robinson. The way he looked in that fight – He knocked him out.

He knocked him out, but he also knocked him out with short punches. He throws short – he's not winding up. He threw a short right hand that he dropped him with. He's got real skill. Yeah. Like, he can fucking hit, man. Yeah. His punching is very, very legit.

He's got legitimate knockout power. And he's willing. He's willing to train hard and spar hard. He looks fucking good, man. What I don't like is the idea that a lot of people think, it's maybe because a lot of them, it's because of ignorance. They think, oh, he's just a YouTuber against an MMA champion. But the truth is, you've got a guy that is, like, he's got a real boxing background. Well, he's a good athlete.

Yes, yes. And he's fighting another guy who's an MMA fighter. But that's really not his specialty. That's really, really and really not his specialty, you know. But the reason why he was successful in MMA is because he was so damn good in the other thing. He's also quite a bit larger. He's bigger. I think Jake is – what did he weigh against Nate Robinson?

His brother is like 200-plus pounds, somewhere in the range. They've just faced off for their day. Yeah, I saw that. They're next to each other. I saw that. But, I mean, he's not just taller, and he's a little bit taller but he's like a physically bigger person like ben although you know his body never looked impressive he's very strong as a grappler yeah but he doesn't get a chance to grapple this is not a grappling match

this is a boxing match and i just i don't know i don't know i mean i think it would need to somehow sometime because i i've sparred world champion boxers, you know, like in my life many times, you know. I can hang there for three, four rounds, you know, with the guys I spar. But after four rounds, what you find is that they're way more efficient than you, especially in the inside boxing because we do not have inside boxing in MMA. Right, right. So everything we do do it's the outside and when we're inside we're clinching and you know so for that good point for that reasons

boxers like in boxer in boxing are way more efficient than mma because that's the biggest difference is the inside boxing yes so he's a wrestler and that's where things will get complicated but the thing is though that he can tie him up and in a way that jake paul's never been tied up before yeah like if big gloves and that's true but still a clamp is a clamp the way that guy gets a hold of you he'll grab the back of your head grab a little arm he'll muscle him around in a way that's going to feel very uncomfortable clenching with him that's right but can he do that would not get knocked out can he do that not get hit can you do that without being fined i mean you know like meg regreber i think it was was there were rules that he was going he was fined if he did to me whether so i think the

rules were it says five ten six one but that's not the big thing. The height is not the big thing. The big thing is the physical weight, lean weight. See, I think when you think about Ben Askren competing most of his career at 170 pounds, he's a small guy. Like even at 170, he's not like Kamaru Usman at 170. Like Usman at 170 is fucking shredded and gigantic. Or Douglas Lima is another guy shredded and gigantic at 170. Ben is a smaller guy. Like he carries body weight, like fat on him. Like I think when Ben wrestled, like what was Ben's, when he was wrestling, when he was at the peak of his form

as an amateur wrestler, I think he was in, I don't remember, but I believe he was at the peak of his form as an amateur wrestler, I think he was in, I don't remember, but I believe it was in the 160s. He says 170 also. As a wrestler? What does it say there on Wikipedia? Wikipedia says he's 190. That's what he weighs now. No, no.

It says 170 actually, but. Well, yeah, that's what he competes at. 174 in college. That's what he weighed? 74 as a wrestler in college? Really? I just hope they don't get hurt, man. I like to see these fights because it's the entertainment that it provides.

There is a story behind it, and it's fun to watch because I'm a curious person. I'm going to watch it. But I just hope they don't get humiliated or badly hurt because it will hurt me to watch it. And then on both sides, you know? I know what you're saying. Yeah. So what did Jake Paul weigh when he fought Nate Robinson? 189.

That's not too bad. So we're only dealing with about 20 pounds of difference. It's not too bad. The difference is power. Jake has, like, real power jake has like real power he has real knockout power and he's got real speed where again ben's body is designed to squeeze you and crush you and throw you around it's not it's not dynamic it's it's it's it's isometric strength yeah squeezing and in boxing there's no room for isometry it's all about

dynamic and that's where ben lacks it's gonna beometry it's all about dynamic and then that's where bad Ben lacks it's gonna be interesting it's gonna be interesting who knows I mean maybe he knows something we don't know but also you have to take into consideration the fact that it's an enormous payday and maybe that's why he's willing to do this because he said that the payday he's gonna get from this Jake Paul fight would be bigger than any payday he's ever had in his career that's worth worth it then. Good for him. Good for him.

This is important. You can assure a future for him and family. This is important. Good for him. I mean, yeah. I'm curious to see how many other fighters decide to do this

because there's some like Anderson Silva is fighting Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. Do you know about that? No. Yes. That's a new fight

that's been announced that makes me uncomfortable. But there is Julio Cesar Chavez Jr more and more yeah yeah and i know but he's not the same you all your scissors chavez junior that he was when he was in his prime but he's you know he looked damn good though he's a he's a dangerous striker yeah he's a good boxer he's not you know he's not the cream of the crop he's not who his dad was his dad is one of my all-time favorite fighters oh okay wait junior junior junior okay that's not good junior i think is only like 35 no that's not good then that's not good for junior's big yeah okay if junior's

175 he's a bigger fighter yeah that's not good that's like okay i thought it was the dad no no Yeah, that's not good. I thought it was the dad. No. That was terrible. That's rude. I thought it was good for Anderson. I was like, what the hell? He's going back to fight?

But I think this is bad because he's still active, right? He's still active as of recently. He quit. He kind of like, he didn't quit. But he basically like laid off the gas against Canelo a few years ago, and most people were very upset at him for that fight, because it looked like he was just trying to survive against Canelo Alvarez.

Canelo was just lighting him up. And so that was, I think, at 160? Senior's fighting on the same card, FYI. No! I knew! I knew, I knew. He's fighting Hector Camacho's son?

Yeah. How old is Hector Camacho's son? I don't know if he's an adult either. Hey, Joe, I knew I... Who is his son's senior? Oh, my God. I knew I've seen it somewhere. It was in the back of my mind.

So I thought I had the... But I had the wrong person. I knew I've seen it somewhere. That's crazy. But you know, Anderson always publicly says that he would have loved to fight Jon Jones. I think it would be better because it would be like... Roy Jones.

Roy Jones. Yeah, Roy Jones. Not Jon Jones. Roy Jones, exactly. It would be a good novelty fight for him. This could be better. When is this fight supposed to take place? June 19th in Mexico. let me be honest with you um it depends on what they're gonna let him do

in terms of like hormones that's what that's the big factor here because anderson towards the end of his reign or the end of his career in mma just was not the same guy from chris weidman on he's not the same guy and he got older and he lost a few steps and from the second weidman fight so so he lost to chris weidman then the only fight that he won was one decision against derrick brunson and he came very close in that fight with michael bisping that was a close fight. But every fight other than that, he lost all those fights. I think it was like eight fights, which is crazy when you see how dominant he was when he was in his prime. And there's a thing where an athlete just reaches a point of no return

with their body, just does not respond. His body didn't look the same anymore. I mean, you look at the Anderson Silva that fought Yushin Okami. You look at the Anderson Silva that fought Yushin Okami. You look at the Anderson Silva that fought Dan Henderson. He was fucking jacked and shredded, and he was so good, man. Dana White sent me a text message the other day with a video of Anderson Silva when he fought Dan Henderson. He goes, man, people forget how fucking good Anderson was when he was in his prime. And I watched the video.

I didn't forget, but I kind of did. I had to watch it again. I was like, God damn. It was amazing. He was so good. He was so good. Anderson was so fucking good. He had ESP.

He knew what people were going to do before they did it. And his reaction time was so fast. But when it goes, it goes. I think we talk about GOAT sometimes. I think Anderson Silva is there he's the goat but he's one of them yeah the people always remember your last performance i think anderson is there i think of course john jones anderson is because he was so flamboyant john jones he faced the most adversity i think steve miochic was there he's the goat he just lost

people say oh no i think he was the goat you. Oh, man. I mean, you think about it. He beat legends. He beat Alistair Overeem, Junior Dos Santos. He beat everybody. You never fight the same fighter twice. You might fight the same name twice. But every fight leaves a scar. Could be for the best or for the worst. Yeah.

And I think Khabib was there because he had the most dominated career ever. I don't know if he ever lost a round he might have but you know he was so incredible you have Demetrius Johnson you have like he was all around it was amazing in his prime

but now you keep fighting when you're not in your prime you kind of make people forget how good you were BJ Penn was there he was just the perfect fighter it was amazing you know like like you have a i i think personally um dominic cruz too like he had a time like he was his footwork was i really enjoyed watching him fight oh yeah he was so innovative there's conor mcgregor too because of his precision He was so innovative.

So innovative. Conor McGregor too, because of his precision. Royce Gracie. So there's many arguments to say why someone is their goal. Then you have to depend what it is for you. Then after you have the performance enhancing drugs and stuff. You have to weigh in the whole thing. You know what I mean?

It's almost you can't say who the greatest of all time is, but there's some greatest of all times. For their time. One of the greatest of all time. If we talk about who's the fighter that nowadays that we all weight included, everything goes in a fight, who would you choose? Francis. Francis, yeah. Right now?

Right now, yeah. Who the fuck is going gonna fight him that's lighter than him however i realized something like you and i i know a lot of young fighter might think it's they might not think this way but the way the way it is in this game is like that i think for example you have three guys that are on top this guy beat this guy this guy beat this guy this guy beat this guy it's just a matter of timing right fighting it's about it's about style right it's about it's never forever because derrick lewis beat francis by decision that's right so maybe he's the greatest right so you have to look

at it that way for perhaps one day will be someone that will figure out francis how to fight a guy like this well derek lewis is an interesting case because he's so big and he can take a tremendous punch and he can knock you out with one shot and he's the only guy in the heavyweight division that can knock francis out with one shot he can knock anybody out the way he knocked out curtis blades derek i think derek can knock out any man alive he has that kind of power i agree however. However, what is his Achilles? It's his wrestling. The ground game, yes.

But he can tighten that up. And one of the things that he's tightened up is his endurance. So let's say we speculate. Right. I don't think so. But let's say we speculate. You have Lewis beat Francis. Francis beat Miocic.

But Miocic, but Miocic beat Lewis. Who's the best? But he didn't fight. I know we just speculate, but that's how the world of fighting works. But Cormier beat Lewis, and then Stipe beat Cormier twice. I'm saying it's just speculation. If it happened. If you beat someone, that does not mean also you will beat him every time.

Right, like Matt, Sarah, and you. It's a question of odds. It's maybe 9 out of 10 you will beat him. But that night, that night, you zig when you should have zagged. Yes. It's too late. It's too late. The thing about Francis that makes it so dangerous is you can't make any errors.

You can't make any errors. Like, any time you can get hit with a bomb and then it's over. And, like, the punch that he knocks Stipe out with, too, is short left hook. Stipe's moving towards him. He just, bang, catches him with that short left hook. We forget that Stipe has knockout power, too. Oh, fuck yeah. And if you watch that fight,

look, the end of the fight, he missed with a right hand. That was like two inches from the... So he could have been dangerous. He hit him. He hit him with that right hand. I remember I was doing the French commentator. There's a right hand.

You watch the last part of that fight, when it ends, there's a right hand you watch that the the last part of that fight when it ends there's a a counter right that straight right that missed from steeply that if i would if you think it missed i thought i know it missed if it would have cut him my friend maybe we would have a different discussion but i'm just saying sometimes fights the outcome could switch to one side to another it's it's it. It happens so fast. You know what I mean? Especially in heavyweights. Yeah.

Because they hit so hard. That's the thing. You can't make too many errors in the heavyweight division. But I also think that Francis had Stipe hurt in the first round bad and then knocked him down with that step forward jab in the second round. He had him in big trouble already. The problem I think Stipe did, he tried to repeat exactly, do a copy paste of what he did in the first fight he thought francis perhaps would come aggressive and try to but

francis was smart he had just he didn't burn himself so now we know that now francis he has improved as a fighter it's as scary as he is yes he is he's improving well the amount of time that he's been in martial arts is relatively limited you know i mean he when he first fought for the title he'd only been doing martial arts for about five years yes so now it's eight years but now also he's with a full camp right he's now extreme couture in vegas they're working with him on all the aspects of his game his takedown defense like when stipe shot on all the aspects of his game. His takedown defense. Like when Stipe shot for the takedown, Francis stuffed the takedown correctly. Textbook.

Textbook. With the head inside. It was beautiful. And then got behind him and hit him with those bombs. So let's see the right hand. Yes. I have to start doing it in slow-mo so you can see it. Oh, sure.

It's right there. Boom. Oh, no, no. That's reversed. That's reversed. No, at the end of the day. But this is before this. It is reversed. Yeah, it's reversed. That's right there. Boom. Oh, no, no. That's reversed. That's reversed. At the end of the... But this is before this. It is reversed.

Yeah, it's reversed. That's right before. If you go before that... Well, he lands the one that you're talking about. Let me see it. Let me see it. It's right here.

It's right here. There's one that kind of missed at one point. It's that one. Right here. No, it's right before that. No, no, no. It's right before that. And I remember because... I remember specifically. It's all reversed, but No it's right before No no no Right before that

And I remember Because I was I remember specifically It's all reversed But I still remember It very specifically See when he's moving forward It's because he's already hit him

Can you go before that Yeah it's the last sequence Right there Back up again No even more Even more Even more It doesn't matter

Back up again Yeah let's go here So this is a knock Let it play out from here So boom boom boom He hits him with these big punches he catches him with the uppercut that's it right there you see this one i said a right let me see it again well it was a it was a straight left no no no no it wasn't this is reversed oh okay this is this is backwards and the reason why it's backwards is so they don't get hit with copyright because that that punch that dropped him was not in real life a right hand.

It was a left hand. See, right there. But he hit him a little bit. It was on the top. Imagine you hit with that. Yeah, but you miss from one inch or you miss by two inches. You miss. The gold, the home run is when you hit on the chin.

Imagine if you hit with that on the chin. Let me see it. He missed. He missed a little bit. You see? I don't know. I think he punched him. Let me see it. He missed a little bit, you see? I don't know. I think he punched him. Yeah, but it's not at the right spot.

You have to punch in the point of the chin in the right spot. I think he hit him on the cheek, though. I think he hit him right in the face. I think it's more on the forehead. I don't know about that. I think he hit him straight on the cheek. Let's see it. This is... And he was coming forward. Boom, see? He hit him straight on the cheek let's see it this is uh and he was coming forward

boom see that he hit him right on the cheek i mean it's not perfectly on the point of the chin but you're right imagine you catch that with the like like the perfect timing on the point of like sitting down like this yes he made him sit back he made him step back but then stipe came forward and then he caught him personally it's just saying sometimes, and it happened, the outcome of a fight can switch on the blink of an eye. Especially in a crazy exchange like that. Yeah, I remember Volkov against Derek Lewis. Volkov was winning the fight and Lewis, boom!

And it was beautiful. That was crazy. But it's just to show that sometimes when you get confidence, it's great for a fighter. But it's dangerous because there's nothing more dangerous for a fighter than success. Success makes you weak, man. Success makes you forget sometimes. Then you're not, you know what I mean? It can be very dangerous.

And I love Francis. I hope, like I want Francis. Francis is making his story, man. He's the one that can, you know, like, he's an amazing fighter, amazing human being. And he, perhaps, maybe one day, they're going to go, like, rumble in the jungle, Ali Foreman, you know, do that in Africa. That would be amazing. He could, he had that aura on him. But, man, I want him to stay successful and never forget that no matter how dangerous, how good you are, and especially in heavyweight, you're only at one inch to lose everything.

So you always need to be sharp because now everybody look at him. He's the target. You know who I would have loved to see? Francis versus Fedor in his prime oh that would have been good yeah fedor was a very dangerous one too he was special yes he was special but but but i i think now if you look at boxing is same thing look look tyson for me how big he is i'll look francis if i would go go back in the gladi time, he's the perfect human being, man. I know. He's like – Well, especially for the weight limit.

He's a specimen, man. For 265 because Francis is a natural 275-pound guy. He cuts a little bit of weight. You cannot have a more perfect – Impossible. Athletic than Francis. Tall, super strong. Yes.

Muscular but not too muscular. It's like everything's perfect ridiculous power perfect human being to be a killing machine it's unbelievable unbelievable you know what I mean also what Daniel Cormier said at the end of the fight he said strap a rocket to Francis's back because he's gonna take off because he's got that Tyson like aura where everyone's scared of fighting him. He knocks everybody out. When you see him knock a guy like Stipe out, who's the consensus greatest UFC heavyweight champion of all time.

Stipe defended the title more than anybody. He won the title twice. When you watch him fight, Stipe was the fucking man. So Francis, when he knocks him out, so he takes the title from the greatest heavyweight champion of all time, knocks him out cold, and now he has this ability to transcend the sport yes he has this ability to become this gigantic superstar yeah he can change the game and i'm very happy for him i i just hope he stay focused and and man i i i want you know it's just amazing for him like if you if you know about his

story is just incredible like it's very inspirational yes now let me ask you this what do you think about what john jones is saying because john jones now i am always on the side of i want fighters to get paid as much as possible and john jones is saying let me let me demystify this. Please. Is afraid? Yes, John Jones is afraid of Francis, and Francis is afraid of John Jones. Because if they would not be afraid, that means they don't care. Fighting, I'm sure it's important for them.

Success is important for them. And when you put it all on the line, it's normal to be afraid. However, it has nothing to do with the fight are we gonna fight or not like they use that as a ufc use that as a tactic to make him accept the fight and they did that for me for years being afraid or not being afraid or it's not like in the schoolyard. We're not like in the schoolyard when someone will run away. If the price is good, even though he's afraid, and he should be afraid, he's a scary guy who is about to fight. You know, regardless of how he feel, he will do the job.

He will bite in his mouthpiece and do it. I was afraid, personally, I can and do it. I was afraid. Personally, I can talk about myself. I was afraid before every fight. Which one made you most afraid? Every fight. I can tell you which one made... I was the least afraid. Which one?

It was Matt Serra. And I got knocked out. Matt Serra is the only fight in my entire life. And I'm saying life. I'm talking even about amateur competition. When I was a kid in karate and wrestling. It's the only fight that I had a good night of sleep the week before all the way through the fight. I had it all figured out.

I didn't make those crazy scenarios in my mind. I didn't rethink of it. This idea of fighting, of losing I didn't this idea of fighting of losing didn't hunt me mmm it needs to be fear it's a good thing and people I always afraid it's stupid to say that because of course he's afraid and of course I'm I'm gonna tell you the scoop I'm sure Francis is afraid too you know but it doesn't matter if they're afraid or not if the numbers is good hopefully it will they will fight and this fight will will make history you know and and and hopefully it happened but it i was afraid every fight but it does not matter you know because as

much as i'm afraid you know i'm by no mean a perfect man, by no mean. But one thing that I'm not, I'm not a coward. And no matter who I'm fighting, and if the contract is good, everything is good, I'm gonna go out there and I don't care about how I feel because it's subjectivity. I only care about the objective, what I need to do in order to take you out of your comfort zone. And this need to be done at all costs me

myself how i feel if i'm sick or not what the other people think that does not exist the only thing that exists and matter is the objectivity the things that you need to do to succeed and these need to be done at all costs that's how you should think when you have a fight coming up that's how they should people they don't know that because they cannot nobody can really rely to that because not everybody that is a fighter but i know as a fighter i can tell you for certain that i'm sure they are both afraid it's normal every fight you're kind of afraid you can be confident but you always have this idea in the back of your mind that, man, if I mess up, I could lose everything, all my legacy and everything. It's normal.

And you should feel this way. Because if you don't feel this way, my friend, it's the end of their career. And that's when you take the big dive. And now it's loss after loss after loss after loss. It should. Hopefully, they both afraid because we want to see a good fight. And I want to see the good fight and i want to see the best of both guys to see who's the best man yeah well hickson said that as well you know when

people say are you afraid he says i'm always afraid he goes he goes if you tell me that someone's not afraid i'm like that's a crazy bro it's because you have a yeah do you have a pride are you a proud person you want to be knocked out in front everybody in front like no i'm a proud person i don't want to be knocked out i don't want to be humiliated i'm afraid not like a kid in the schoolyard that i'm afraid i'm running i'm afraid to not perform at my best i'm afraid that i zig when i should have zagged and i used to seek the help of sports psychologists because of that because I when I was looking around when I was competing everybody is putting a mask on everybody is saying oh they use the word excited hey I'm excited and even the sports psychologist used to tell me George stop saying you're afraid you're

excited that does not apply here like I don't I know my English is not perfect sir but you know my sport psychologist is american he was american he says you're you're you don't stop saying you're afraid i know you you you you're afraid that the night you had the same experience with matzah it repeat itself but you're excited to fight i mean no i'm not excited i'm not excited i'm not afraid to admit that i'm afraid i'm excited if i'm in mont Montreal when it's minus 20 degrees Celsius. And I know I'm going next week on vacation to the beach in Miami. I'm excited.

Or if I fasted for three days and I'm about to eat my favorite dish. I'm excited. I'm not afraid to not knowing if I will perhaps be badly hurt, humiliated, or win the ultimate prize. And there's no shame in that. There's no shame in that. And it does not matter on the result whether the fight would happen or not. Because even if they are afraid, which they should,

if the instager of the fight are made and are correct, this hopefully will happen and we will have a great show. I don't think that's what's keeping them from fighting each other. I don't believe that Jon Jones is afraid in terms of, I think for sure there's a high level of anticipation. There's going to be some worry when it comes to the fight. There's going to be some nervousness for sure. But I don't think he's afraid in terms of

that's why he's not fighting Francis because he's scared to fight Francis. I think it's a negotiation issue. Yes. For sure. But I think that he makes a lot of good points. This is the biggest fight. The fight, if Jon Jones fights Francis Ngannou,

you have... Jon, again, he's undefeated no one's beaten he should retire he should he has nothing else to accomplish is the if he wants oh man yes if he wants to he can retire john's made millions of dollars you know i think if they do fight it will be the biggest fight in the history of the sport. And I also believe he needs to be paid accordingly. A hundred percent. And if he wins that, that's the thing why the UFC might think. Think about the business side. And we see that often happen.

Let's say he fights. Every fight left that could happen can only downgrade him because everybody will expect him to win. He's a victim of his own success. Well, up until this fight, everybody expected him to win up until this fight. No, no, exactly. But if he wins that fight, what's left for him? Rematch. It depends on how he wins.

Yeah, but maybe the UFC is aware of that, and they want to keep the ball rolling. Is that what you think? I think that's why the fight with Khabib and I did not happen, and I think that's why a lot of fights do not happen, because UFC, it's a business, you know? Well, I think with Khabib and you, the primary concern was that you were going to do what you did with the bisping fight you fought bisping you won

the title and you're like happy title back see ya well it's it's it's it's a little bit more complicated than that but I I got I got sick to I got I got a ulcer colitis yes and it was talk about that too yeah do you think that that was because of the amount of food that you were eating because See, this also parallels what Gordon Ryan is dealing with. He told you, okay? I didn't know. No, he's talked about it publicly. He's called me for this.

Well, Gordon has an issue because he's eating all the time to try to maintain his mass. And Gordon, he gained a lot, a lot of weight. A lot of weight. And he lifts weights constantly and he's eating all day long. A lot of weight, and he lifts weights constantly, and he's eating all day long. You were in that same situation where you had to force yourself to eat to put on the weight necessary to fight at 185 pounds.

I only gained 10 pounds. Normally, like I am now, like I always been, I'm about 184 pounds, 185. Walking around. Walking around. That's your natural weight. For the fight with Bisping, I went up to 195. It took me a few months, maybe two months to reach that

because I was eating all the time. Did you consult a nutritionist? Yes. How did you do it? What did you do? I consulted a guy, but it's different in bodybuilding and in MMA. I was taking protein shake too on top of that. And creatine, it's a food supplement that helps water retention.

And I told the guy, I said, I didn't like it because it's good for explosion, for dynamic thing. However, when I grappled, I felt I was having cramp. When I was doing like isometric tension like like squeezing i was having cramp front you think that was creatine i think that's what it was so i stopped it at first but i kept eating and i got bigger i got 195 but what that was a mistake joe i should never have done that because i believe there's a genetic component there's also because i believe it's the stress and the fact that i eat too much i developed a situation called ulcer colitis i had very severe cramps at the point that man it was

blood and it was very very bad joe i thought i was at one point i had maybe cancer it was very bad but that fight was postponed a few times and that's so much drama around it i knew that if i asked to postpone it because i wanted to do a colonoscopy and when you do a colonoscopy, they give you laxative to empty you and I was trying to gain weight. I was not trying to lose weight. So I told myself,

whatever it is, the fight is happening very soon. I'm going to fight and I'm going to do the exam after. So I did this. I won the fight. It was great. Then I went gonna do the exam after so i did this i i won the fight it was great then i went to do the exam i found out i'm i'm i was diagnosed with ulcer colitis which is a

condition that you're stuck for life with so i was on severe medication and what kind of medication uh it's called salofac salofac it's a something you put in inside of yourself you know your ass yes every every every night before you go to bed you know yeah yeah yeah it's a way to go to bed it's a very strong anti-inflammatory for the intestine so so it got me i got better from it but i see it more as like a bandage that you put on an injury like i wanted to heal it at the core and and i'm not a fan of medication i'm more a fan of not always look for the natural way of doing things so i investigate about fasting and i found out that through internet research that the best the best way to deal with this for a lot of people it was to fasting and i and i met with dr jason

fong who convinced me to start fasting and i practice long-term fasting like i do i go four times a year up to three days water fast and i train during those three days and i i use i supplement myself with himalayan salt to make sure I don't deplete my minerals. So I do that four times a year. And I do also time-restricted eating, like 16-8. And days that I do not train, I only eat once a day. And that's what I did. And immediately when I started that, and I even went on a scan at McGill University. A scan is very accurate to see the changes on my body

because my biggest concern was to lose muscle. So it turns out that I did two months after my Bisping fight. So it turns out that I lost 10 pounds. I didn't lose muscle mass. I didn't lose bone density i lost a lot of water retention a lot it was the biggest loss that i had and a fat percentage so basically overfeeding myself gave me dead weight because all the weight that I was carrying was not solid muscular weight, was like a bag that I carry on my shoulder. So I would have probably be better just competing in

my natural weight. And perhaps I would not have had that ulcer colitis problem because now I'm stuck with it. I'm symptoms'm symptoms free bro i'm symptoms free i cannot recommend fasting to any of the audience because everybody is different right everybody has different genetics and and problems however it's worth to investigate for me i'm symptoms free and it took a few months that i was symptoms free. And I mix fasting. Also, I eat a lot of fermented food, collagen supplement. There's different kinds of collagen, different spectrum. And there's a certain spectrums that are good for your gut.

What fermented foods did you find helped you the most? Kimchi. And I make my own. I love kimchi. I make my own Jun. I made it. Jun. It's like kombucha.

You have a mushroom. You put green tea with sugar. Yeah, you let it infuse the green tea in water. Then you take out the green tea pocket. Then you put your honey in it. Inside you mix. And then you put the mushroom. And the one that the mushroom used to be in, that's mix and then you put the mushroom and the one that

that mushroom used to be in that's the one that you drink it looks disgusting but that's how I get rid of it and it's an acquired taste after a while you kind of loved it and it's very strong how is it different from kombucha I guess it's I think the mushroom is it is different you know can you spell it it's, I think the mushroom is different. Can you spell it? It's Jun, G-U-N, Jun. G, like gun. Gun, yeah. I think in English could be gun. No, sorry, J-U-N.

My grandmother used to do that. Here it is. That's the one. John Kombucha. Oh, actually, it could be the same. It says similar to kombucha, differing only in that its base ingredients are green tea and honey

instead of black tea and cane sugar. Oh, okay. So it's brewed with the same symbiotic culture of yeast and bacteria. So it seems like it's the same mushroom. Does it look like that in the center? It is exactly like that. Okay. I used to make my own mushroom or make my own kombucha.

It looks disgusting. Oh, look at the difference. And when I did it in the beginning I was concerned because it looks so disgusting I'm like am I gonna get sick and yes in the beginning when you first drink it because you don't you mix it with sparkling water it makes you have kind of a little bit of cramp because it's kind of it's bad back it's it's a not bad it's bacteria that you put inside of your stomach however you get used to it and and right right now i'm telling you the truth

i might still have ulcer colitis but i'm symptoms free and but if you don't have symptoms like why would you have colitis i don't understand like isn't it all about whether or not it's it's inside of me it's it will be inside of me and i think i think yes and i think the fact that i'm fasting that's why i can drink and i can i can drink if i want to i can eat chocolate i can eat whatever i want it tooks a it tooks me a few months to get symptoms free but i still have it because sometimes you still feel it a little bit but very soon i'm very excited because i need to go back to the doctor to check out to make another checkup and if like i mean it's very unlikely i mean it would defy science if i don't have it but if i do it turns

out that i don't have it i would be like oh that's the blueprint to beat this because the doctor told me i have it for the rest of my life yeah but isn't that also because most people don't fast the way you fast and most people wouldn't be disciplined enough to do what you're doing with even with intermittent fasting as well as the three-day water fast. Like how many people do that? Very few. And it's not that hard. It's not that hard. When you tell that to people, the percentage of people that will actually go and do it are so small. Joe, if you would have come up to me before i had ulcer colitis and talk to me about fasting it would have come in my hair and goes go out right because we're i'm i'm part of that society

where we're bombarded by uh by publicity or buy this drink this, protein shake this, this, that. And I'm part of that culture too. So I was kind of brainwashed. I was forced to try fasting because I was ill. If I would not be ill, there is no way in the world you could have convinced me to that. And that's what led me to my other question. Carnivore diet. I want to try this. You should try it. me to my other question. Carnivore diet. I want to try this. You should try it.

Talk to me about it. It sounds insane to me. I only did it strictly for one month. And during that month, I lost 13 pounds and I felt fucking great. I had so much energy. I got really lean and shredded. Really? Yeah.

Oh, my God. And I had so much energy, but not lean and shredded really yeah oh my god and i had so much energy but not just energy mental energy which is interesting but i only did it for a month like i really i most of the time eat that way where i don't eat a lot of sugar but i do love food i love to go to a restaurant and order pasta i love salad I like a delicious salad. You're Italian, right? Yes, I'm Italian. But I like, I love good food. I love chef's creations. I love sushi. I like to go to a great sushi place.

So my problem is I enjoy the act of going to dinner and eating at a nice restaurant. I like wine. I like eating dessert. I like all that stuff. When you did it, did you supplement? No. Well, yes. Wow.

Vitamins, just vitamins. But that's it. Okay, okay. But that's my question. I traveled to Africa and Kenya. I went to Maasai Mara. I did a safari.

I took my dad there. And I met a tribe there. They called them Maasai. Very beautiful people, Joe. And you should see they're shredded. A lot of them, they look very— They eat only meat. Only meat, bro.

Like 90% meat. They eat roots sometimes. And how about the Eskimos? Same thing. They eat fish. How about the Comanche? The Comanche Indians, who are the most fierce of all the tribes. They actually roam this part of the world in Texas.

Wow. They only ate buffalo. That's all they ate. However, I've been told that they don't eat the filet mignon. They look for the organs. The organs. The organs and fatty meats. That's what they want.

Yeah. So when you did your carnivore diet, did you eat organs as well? Yeah. I ate a lot of liver. I ate liver. I even took supplements, like liver supplements. There's a company called Heart and Soil, and they sell desiccated supplements, like desiccated liver. So it's dehydrated liver and heart and all these different things.

I took a lot of that stuff. But mostly what I ate was wild game because, you you know i hunt so i ate mostly elk but i also very lean very lean but i also ate bacon with that to sort of supplement to give myself fat um you and i ate ribeye steaks if i ate beef i ate ribeye steaks if i ate buffalo i also ate when you say you eat ribeye and everything is it you did you always made sure that everything was grass-fed and and no i but i think that's better for you i do believe that everything was grass-fed? No. You didn't care? But I think that's better for you.

I do believe that's better for you. But I didn't. I ate some corn-fed because it had more fat to it. Yes. I think fat is the most important thing because you can't – there's a thing called rabbit starvation. Have you ever heard of that? I'm not sure.

Perhaps. Rabbits are so lean that if you eat only rabbits, you'll actually starve to death. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's very dangerous because you don't have any fat. Like, they're not getting any fat out of your diet. So you're going keto in a way. It's not just keto. Keto, you burn fat, right?

But with only like 100% completely lean meat and nothing else, your body does not like that. Your body wants fat for fuel. There's a thing called gluconeogenesis that when you eat enough protein, your body converts that protein to glucose. But when you need some fat, like fat is actually, you know, we're programmed to think that, oh, I want to eat low fat. That's fucking terrible for you. Low fat is awful for you yeah like oh low fat stuff like you lean meat is not bad but you do need fat and fat is uh an

important component for your diet whether it's fat from avocado fat from nuts and macadamia nuts or whether it's a vegan fat or vegetarian fat or whether it's fat from eggs like you know like people think that oh i want to eat all egg whites that's fucking terrible it's not good yolks yolk is where the most of the nutrients are yolks are good for you and when you say carnivore diet did you eat fish as well yes just animal protein fish eggs meat and i did it for an entire month and i'm telling you i felt really good but you need to be crazy disciplines you Yes. You know, I did my DNA test. I'm part Italian. I'm like 15%.

I don't know why, but that's perhaps why I love to eat a lot of pasta and stuff like that. Well, it's just delicious. I don't think I can sustain that for one month, but I want to give it a... Oh, you could do it for a month. I'm sure you could do it for a month. No chocolate, nothing. Man, it sucks. It sucks. Well, the entire month, you know want to give it... Oh, you could do it for a month. I'm sure you could do it for a month. No chocolate, nothing. Man, it sucks. It sucks. It sucks.

I had a couple of pieces of chili mango. One of my favorite desserts is chili mango. You ever have that Mexican treat? It's like a dried mango with chili powder on it. Oh, it's so good. It's one of my favorite cheat meals. It's chili mango. I love it.

Joe, I don't think I have your discipline. Of course you of course you might do it for a week not for a month man did you take a picture of after before after or what in a scan well i was lucky that i was pretty fat before i did it i'd gotten to like 205 pounds and um i just had gotten like a lot of like side fat and my stomach was bloated. I was eating so much pasta. That's my problem is I fucking love pasta. And pasta makes me like, I get a belly. I love pasta.

Pasta and beer make my fucking stomach fat. And I'm a glutton, man. When I eat, I eat well past the point where I'm satisfied. I just gorge myself. It's a real problem. But don't you think that's how we're supposed to be? If you look at Ontario Gator, food was scarce. Right, scarce, yes.

And they didn't have food. They didn't know when was the last time they could eat. So they used to feed as much as they can, then wait for the next one, right? I think that's how we should do. It's a good excuse. But the reality is, I'm a glutton. I'm a glutton.

I am. I really am. Like yesterday, I had an ice cream sundae. My kids wanted to get ice cream. We got some ice cream. And then I was like, come on, fucking ice cream sundae.

And I ate so much. I felt disgusting afterwards. But while I was and then i was like come on fucking ice cream sundae and i ate so much i felt disgusting afterwards but while i was eating i was like i'm i have gluttonous instincts when it comes to food i always overeat bro it's a pleasure of life and you know i wouldn't be fully happy if i cannot enjoy it you know and i think the fact that i'm fasting made me able to enjoy yes you've paid the price yeah yes yes like sleeping eating well that's why i never stuck with the carnivore diet is because i enjoy i enjoy all kinds of food i am a fan of culinary arts like i'm not much of a cook i can cook meat i'm good at that and i can cook some pasta dishes and a couple of things. But I love chefs. I love I respect the art form. I was good friends with Anthony Bourdain. And I learned a lot from him. And I just I learned a lot. First of all, before I ever met him watching his program. But I love watching people cook. I love television shows on cooking. I love talking to chefs. They're some of my favorite people to talk to.

I think they create a temporary art. That's what that is. It's an art form that you take in with your mouth, with your smells, and just looking at it. I love food. I just love it. We forget sometimes how much we're spoiled today. True.

I'm just thinking about, you go back 13,000 years ago, man. I was in L.A. like right before I come here. I went to La Brea Tarp. Man. Yeah, crazy, right? Imagine when you kill an animal, you have to eat, and you eat the bone marrow, you eat everything. You need to eat it fast because there is other predatory animal,

like slimodon, and man man it's just a scary thing and ice ages forget about the nice jacket that we have forget about montreal on that how cold is montreal go to an ice age man when you have like cybertooth cat like running after you holy shoot it's Man, our ancestors are like incredibly tough. Like we're spoiled as hell. The fact that human beings made it to 2021 with these soft bodies. We're so soft. Just compared to like dogs. Like you ever see dogs fight with each other?

They bite each other. There's nothing happens to them. They got little tiny holes in them. If a dog bit me, my arm would arm would be it'd be torn apart we're so weak compared to most animals where are we going with our society i think we're gonna lose muscle ai will take i was asking lex freeman i was like because i was concerned i asked him i said what do you think about a high do you think it think it could be a threat? Because I hear Elon Musk on your podcast.

He's terrified of it. He's terrified. So is Sam Harris. Sam Harris is also equally fearful of the potential downsides and two of the most brilliant people that I know. I'm afraid that in a way that AI could be a good thing for human,

for the development of human. However, in order to keep us safe, it would need to eliminate us for, you know, like because for our little monkey brain plan, you and me or, you know, like us as human, we might think doing certain things is the the the great greater things for the the greater of the humanity but maybe it's not you know and and if you have a superior intelligence that control you know what i mean perhaps they will they will protect us against ourselves and the only way to do that it's by some of the human. I don't know. Look what we do to the planet, man. It's crazy. Sometimes it makes me scared. Well, I think what we are

is an imperfect creature, right? So if you went back to ancient primates, Australopithecus or any of the ancient primates, and you said to them, one day you're not going to have any hair on your body or very little hair, and you're going to have to wear clothes everywhere, and your feet are going to be so soft you're going to have to wear shoes,

and then you're going to be protected because you can't live outside because your body is too weak. So you're going to be protected by structures, and you're not going to hunt anymore. You're just going to go to a store, and because of that, you're going to eat whatever you want, so you're going to get fat, and you're going to be really lazy because you can be lazy, and society is going to protect you. So it's going to give you all this food and resources

and they're going to protect you and make you softer and softer and more dependent upon these systems that really don't give a shit about you they need massive amounts of people in order to give the resources so that they can keep these structures intact whether it's a government or you know political structures or society and they're going to try to make men as toxic. They're going to look at the idea of masculinity as being the most dangerous thing, and aggression is the most dangerous thing. All the things that made human beings what we are today.

Men had to be strong. We needed to conquer, and we needed to fight off other conquerors that were trying to take over our land. And we needed to be able to fight off predators. Well, that's not necessary anymore. So all those male instincts are going to be shunned and looked at as the worst possible part of our society and our culture. Which is the only thing that really got us to where we are today. I think if you say that to that Australopithecus, he will find it absurd.

Yes. And he will not be willing to go towards that direction. Right. So that's what I'm saying about AI. Perhaps we don't know what is the best thing for us. I believe that AI, let's forget about artificial intelligence or AI. It's just a term. intelligence or AI is just a term.

I think technology is impossible to avoid at this stage of human evolution. And I think most likely we are going to integrate with it. And what Elon Musk is trying to do with Neuralink, are you aware of Neuralink? Yeah, I've heard about what he... Not too much, but I'm not educated like you, Elon Musk, but I've heard about what he... Not too much, but I'm not educated like you, Elon Musk, but I've heard about what he's saying. Hilarious he put me and Elon Musk in the same sentence.

But the concept is that there's going to be an invention that increases the bandwidth. Now, first, it's going to be used for people that have neurological disorders and injuries and spinal cord injuries, and it's going to try to bridge the gap between the person's injury and their potential as a person. They're going to be able to figure out a way to allow them to utilize their body in a way

that they couldn't use it before because of the injury. But then eventually, it's going to be something once they become more proficient, once they get better at this technology, once this technology innovates sufficiently and gets more and more advanced, they're going to get to a point where it's going to be something that normal people use. Because it's going to increase the bandwidth between human beings and information and also increase the the physical capability of the body and then with CRISPR CRISPR is a technology that allows gene editing with that and with these integrated technologies like Neuralink and whatever comes after Neuralink Neuralink is just one like you know like the Morse code was one method of communication that existed a couple hundred years ago and then now it's a joke in comparison to what we have today well you take

neural link and you go a couple hundred years from now what kind of symbiotic technologies are gonna we're gonna have it's gonna be nuts it's like having a cell phone connected directly to your brain right but or google. Much, much more advanced. This is the first step. It's going to be godlike. Human beings are going to have... I think when you look at aliens, like when you think of the archetypal alien,

the archetype alien where they have these iconic images of this large head, these little tiny bodies where they have no muscle, that's going to be us. I think what we're seeing when we see those things, if they are real, if people are experiencing those things, I think that's probably us in the future. Or, if not us, some beings from other galaxies or other planets or other parts of the universe, other solar systems.

planets or other parts of the universe, other solar systems, that's probably what happens if your civilization stays intact and you reach a thousand years from now, a million years from now, from where we are. If they're similar to us in their developmental cycle, I think that's where we're going. Your brain, you lose your skin, became pale. Yeah. If you look at us compared to chimps, right? That makes sense. Chimps have smaller brains and bigger muscles.

Well, as they get further and further advanced, the head gets larger, the body gets softer. And then you get further and further advanced from that. You get to the point where the muscles are just almost non-existent. And you just like these stick-like bodies and these enormous heads because your brain... And this is assuming right that these are biological entities in the first place like maybe there's some sort of a combination of biology and robot and intelligence or artificial intelligence and technology to the point where they don't even reproduce with sex like the thing that people always say about these

yeah they have no genitals and their mouth doesn't even need to move around because they probably communicate telepathically. And one of the things that Elon said when I talked to him about Neuralink, he said, you're not going to need to talk to communicate. You're going to be able to talk through your mind. You're going to be able to express. And so that's what they always say about these alien beings. And that're going to be able to express and so that's what they always say about these alien beings and that's gonna be very hard to do because if we say a word for example mother maybe mother for you is someone that took good care of you and everything but for another person mother is someone who beat the hell out of him right but you're thinking about it it's very hard but that's that's a that's a word you're thinking about it in terms... It's very hard to... But that's a word. You're thinking in terms of the meaning that you attach to a word.

Yes. What you're going to be able to do is convey intent. You're going to be able to convey thoughts and concepts which will be universally recognized without the use of language. Oh.

So the problem we're thinking of is like the word... If you use Russian, the Russian word for stove is different than the Russian word for a stove is different than a German word for a stove which is different than a Japanese word it's all like it's hard that's one of the things about when people translate you know this better than anybody because you speak multiple languages yeah when you translate something from French to English it's it's difficult yes finding the appropriate word well I think we're going to be able to convey thoughts without use of language.

And so it'll be more universal. Wow. This is one of the things that they say, people that have been abducted. I had Travis Walton, this guy. I've seen, I've seen, I've watched it. This guy with his bobblehead. Yeah, I've watched it. He's very compelling in his descriptions of his encounter with these beings.

But one of the things that he was saying was they were talking to him, but it wasn't with words. They were communicating with him, and he understood what they were saying, but they weren't saying things. Like, hey, Travis, why don't you relax? Because we're here from planet fucking whatever it is. The information was flowing faster because it was like, boom, right away, what I think, you get it. Yes.

They were explaining things to him in some sort of a telepathic way. Wow. And it was mind-blowing to him. And I think that that's probably the future of communication. Just like you can transmit information from phone to phone, right? You can call people. They're nowhere near you, but you can talk to them You can send a video to someone it's going through the air. It's just data right? It's just information

Do you think Travis and Bob Lazar and all these guys that have? extraordinary claim believe what They are telling you I don't know if what they believe is true but what do you think they believe what they are telling you in a way that they're not lying they're telling the true of what they're believing i can't tell for certain but i believe bob lazar i believe what he's saying is true i believe he's telling me now bob he had one moment where he was passing by a window and he said he saw something that was small and these people were standing over it and he doesn't know

he didn't know if it was uh an alien or whether it was a uh like a uh you know some sort of a a form that they were trying like a doll or something that's supposed to represent the size of an alien or some some sort of a model of an alien but he remembers he looked briefly through a window and he saw something small he didn't see it move around didn't see it talk so he doesn't know what he saw because in his world as he explained it, when he was working at Area 51 Site 4, that's where he worked, he said that it was very compartmentalized. And he's saying it was one of the problems with them trying to figure out – now, this is assuming he's telling the truth. Yeah, of course. One of the problems they were trying to figure out was how to back engineer these devices,

these, these ships. But the problem was they weren't allowed to communicate with other people outside of this very limited group of people that had access to these, these vehicles. And the people that were involved in the metallurgy were not allowed to communicate with the people that are involved in the, whatever the propulsion system was they

didn't understand what the they were trying to decipher these things but he said and if you listen to the podcast that i did with him that it didn't it didn't work because the scientific method requires multiple people to communicate and share ideas and explain and they didn't do you can't improve like that right you need to share idea you can't do something and compartmentalize everything but my communication with him i i again i don't know if he was telling me the truth but he didn't seem deceptive and he's a brilliant guy when you yeah it's clear he's clearly like borderline genius you hear him speak he's very educated and the thing some of the things that he talked about came to fruition like one of the things was there was a concept of this thing called element 115

right now that was not really proven until the 2000s or somewhere in the 2000s they they'd use a particle collider and created this thing where it was a very unstable, very short-lived particle. But he was saying that wherever these beings are from, they have figured out a way to utilize a stable version of this element 115, and that's how they propel themselves. The things that he was describing were also exactly the same things that were experienced by Commander David Fravor, who was a guy who was a jet pilot. I saw, yeah. Yeah, and so he experienced this thing move in that same direction,

that same way, where there was no visible propulsion system, but they tracked this thing going from 80,000 feet above sea level to one in one second. So that's the amount of time that it takes radar to track this. So it might have been less than a second. This thing traveled from 80,000 feet to 1,000.

No time. To one feet. It's like that thing with the hand. He says he measured the distance between the bone and the,

you know, like when you get in, you know, you put your hand in it and measure the distance between your bone and the... Oh, the scanner.

Yes. The scanner. There's a lot of, the scanner. Yes, the scanner. There is a lot of things like this. And, you know, like Zacharias Hitchin was, you know, like... There's a lot of stuff that you can think of that... How could they know that at the time? But it's... Man, it's... Well, the Zacharias Hitchin stuff is interesting, right?

That's all the Sumerian text. The Sumerian text is some fascinating stuff because it's all from 6,000 years ago. And by the way, Zacharias Hitchin, he's very controversial. There's even a website called sitchiniswrong.com. And it's basically scholars of ancient Sumerian who say that his translations are completely off. of ancient Sumerian who say that his translations are completely off. But even if his translations are off, there's still a lot of really confusing stuff about ancient Sumer. And one of the things is their depictions of the solar system.

They had a depiction of the solar system 6,000 years ago that shows the sun in the center and it shows all of the known planets in the outside, and they're relatively accurate in terms of the size. Yeah, and how about the formation of the Earth? Tiamat, Marduk, I don't remember which one is what, but you know, that's... Yeah, formation of the Earth, yes. That's the model that we use today.

Well, the scientists... The asteroid belt, like, that's the model that we use today. The asteroid belt. That's the model that we use today. How did they know that at that time? I don't know how they knew that. What you're saying is Earth 1 and Earth 2. And what that means is that there was an original version of Earth, and then Earth was hit by another planet at some point in the distant, distant past.

And that's what created the moon and that's also what created the asteroid belt that goes on the different direction than the rest of the the the planet like they they knew that too well there's also a thing called bode's law and bode's law measures the distance between planets and it's based on the mass of the planet and they figure out because of the mass of the planet how far these planets are from from each other and one of the things that fucks that up is the asteroid belt i think the what i might be wrong about this but the the distance between mars and jupiter is uh one of the things that screws that up and they think that's explained by the asteroid belt that some

collision created this asteroid belt and created uh all of the i mean there's something like 900 000 known near-earth objects they were created by the impact of these planets one thing i believe and i'm sure you the same because you had a lot of these guys on your podcast, Graham, Graham and cup, Randall Carson, John Anthony West. Like there is clearly knowledge that we've lost in the past. Like this is for sure. Like just think about the library of Alexandria. Man, imagine the knowledge that it wasn't there before it burned. I know.

Imagine. Oh know. Imagine. Oh, man. People think we lost like one millennia just when it burns. Of knowledge, you know, medicine, botany, science. It's just crazy to think of. So very often, sometimes when crazy stuff happens like that, I just think that perhaps they had knowledge that that there's knowledge that we lost like just think about the greek fire it's a weapon that

was used in the naval battle and it's it's it's really really known about historian you can research they still don't know exactly how it works but it was so destructive it was like at the time it was like a secret weapon like they didn't want to share and it was known to be very efficient in naval battle i don't know what that is i don't know about greek fire if you go greek fire you'll get it boom it used to it was used in naval battle so we used to throw they used to throw fire flames and they used to throw fire, flames, and people that are burning, they still burn in the water. So they think it was made with some kinds of petrol or they still don't know. They cannot recreate it.

And it's clearly something that a lot of historians have talked about. It's called Greek fire. It's just an example that it's clear that it's it's a technology that we have lost well if you just look at the pyramids the pyramids are a perfect example of technology loss it's almost like the best example like the those ancient civilizations almost letting everyone know hey there is information that we have that's so above and beyond what's expected of people from this era.

Because if you think about people that lived 2,500 BC, you don't think about someone that had the kind of proficiency to create something that... People don't understand, it's not just that the pyramids were big, but they were so perfectly designed that when they put all the stones they reached the top like if anyone was off by even a half an inch at the bottom as time went on an inch here an inch there by the time they got to the top it'd be all fucked up it wouldn't be perfect but the pyramids were so amazingly perfect and they were originally covered in smooth limestone so smooth polished limestone that would probably be insane to look at if you were staring at it from a distance like this

immense structure of two million three hundred thousand stones some of them cut from quarries hundreds of miles away all perfectly aligned and put together by these people that lived thousands and thousands of years ago. You know that most scholars would say that they use a ramp, but if you think about it, like there's other scholars that would counter that by saying the construction of that ramp need to be in an angle that it could be so difficult to do that it will challenge the construction of the pyramid itself you know again it's like maybe they use a ramp i don't know what they use we don't know yeah but what whatever they

used it's so amazingly precise that they were able to make this two million three hundred thousand stone structure this still to this day i haven't been but i have friends that have gone like my friend andrew schultz just went uh danica patrick the race car driver she told me she just went people that i know that have been my friend eddie bravo when he went he's like you're like you get to you're like what the fuck it's so big apparently it's like an awakening yes that our our idea of what it is when you see it in a photograph, it looks incredible. But I guess I need to go. Because I guess when you see it in person, it's just like a complete reset.

Like it recalibrates what people are capable of. Because you have to think like, man, this is 4,500 years old. Think about that. Darren Cuyo, Gobekli Tepe. Yes. Man, it's... Yeah, Gobekli Tepe is 10,000 years old, right? Yeah, it's like 12,000 years old. At least.

Like, how do you conceive that? And sometimes what happens is it gets infected by other civilizations that passed there after that construction. So they think they are the ones that built it. I think it's Pumapunku. There's clearly two different technologies. You see the stones are perfectly aligned, perfectly cut. Then you have other stones that are just on top. It's like a butcher's job.

It's clearly not the same technology, the same people that built these two layers. Right. Well, that was also John Anthony West's concept of Egypt, that there's multiple eras and that if you go deeper, like some of the stuff that they found when they dig deeper in the sand was a different construction method.

It looked different, different designs, but still equally complex and fascinating it's like there's probably many errors of human civilization and there's probably been whatever it is whether it's disease or some sort of a natural disaster or something that happened asteroidal impact was john anthony or was uh r Randall Carlson's and Graham Hancock's. That's their theory. 12,000 years ago. At the end of the Pleistocene era.

Yes. But Homo sapiens date to 3,000 years old. So imagine that. How many? 3,000. No, no. Homo sapiens. Homo sapiens, 3,000.

I think it's older than that. I think it's several hundred thousand. 300,000. No, no. Homo sapiens. Homo sapiens, 3,000. I think it's older than that. I think it's several hundred thousand. 300,000. Oh, yes. 300,000. Sorry, my English. Yeah. Homo sapiens is 300,000 in Morocco.

I'm 100% sure. That's why I read about this kind of stuff. I think they think it's somewhere in that neighborhood. Yeah. Yeah. But so if you take that 300,000, sorry an evolution, why would it be only in the last 12,000, 10,000 years that we would, you know... Invent such structures. It's kind of strange. It doesn't make sense.

Well, it's also we're so different from all the other animals. Like we're the only animal that wears shoes. We're the only animal that that wears clothes we're the only animal that really manipulates its environment the way we do i mean other animals think you know bees make beehives and shit like that but they don't do anything remotely interesting in comparison to what we're capable of doing and what we have done for thousands and thousands of years and why you know one of the things that Bob Lazar said that he was taught when he was at Area S4, at Area 51 S4, was that one of the things that they were telling him was that human beings are the product of accelerated evolution and that these creatures occasionally come back to check upon our progress. And, yeah, which is crazy.

Wow. But that might be how it works throughout the universe, is that these beings that are very far advanced, they come back and they see these creatures that are pretty close and they give them a little boost. They push them ahead a little bit. Because otherwise it would take so long. And maybe we don't have them at a time because of the fact

that we're in this fucking shooting gallery of asteroids. That these things come down and whatever progress you make is wiped out by impacts or by super volcanoes. It's crazy, but it's not that crazy. If you look at the belief of human beings through evolution, you know, like in ancient Greek, they were believing in different gods, like in different times, different civilization had different belief. Now some people believe Jesus walk on water, which is fine too, that's their belief.

If you believe that human was the result of alien beings, it's another belief. Everybody believe in different things. It's not that crazy if you think about what we're doing. They just landed a helicopter on Mars, you know, like yesterday. Yeah, it was recently, yeah. Yeah, so we're doing weird shit by sending things to other planets, and they roam around and take photographs and send it back to us,

and we watch these high-resolution images from the surface of Mars. This is just within the last, you know, less than a hundred years we're capable of doing this. Who knows what's going to happen within a few thousand years. So if human beings stay alive and the earth stays in one piece for a few thousand years, and then we're sending things out to various planets, and maybe that's what these beings are. Maybe these beings are these artificial intelligent robots that other intelligent entities have constructed and send out to the galaxy. I'm going to tell you something in the future, because now we know there is more and more

planets that are finding the Goldilocks zone, right? That could potentially be habitable. Man, I'm sure if in the future human beings will find another civilization in one of those planets, we'll mess up with their genetic material. For sure. 100%. 100%. If we found some monkey in the jungle and we said, listen,

we'll keep most of them by the way they are. We'll take a few of them. We'll pull them aside and run some tests on them. We take monkeys and we do experiments on them where we see if things are toxic. They try medicine on monkeys. They use makeup. They try makeup on monkeys to see if it's bad for them. They do all kinds of horrible experiments with monkeys. And they've done it forever to see cancer drugs and all sorts of other things are effective or toxic. Some scientists are talking now that they think some of the monkeys have reached stone age.

They use tools to fish and it's crazy. Yes, it's true, right? They think, yeah, some primates have entered the stone age. Yeah, they enter the Homo habilis part. You know, habilis is when they use tools, you know? Like that's kind of crazy. Like Ho habilis sort of a little bit. It's kind of nuts to think of that, you know. It is interesting when you think of the possibility.

It doesn't end here. It doesn't end with us. It's not like we're the perfect being and this is as advanced as things get. We know that we are far more advanced technologically than things that we're aware of historically that we can for sure prove existed because we can watch videos of them. We can watch videos of people that lived in the 1920s. So we look at the way they lived. We look at the historical record of medical experiments and medical treatments that they did on people

that were just 100, 200 years ago where they wrote things down. treatments that they did on people that were just 100 200 years ago where they wrote things down they know what they we know exactly what people knew then as opposed to what they knew now shit if we just go back to 1950 the comparison to people what they did in terms of medicine and medical technology it's so advanced now and this is with 70 years later it's not that long the progress go exponentially yeah and and you know i I'm wondering, and, you know, we talk about perhaps the possibility of lost civilization. How advanced were they? Is that possible that they reached Mars and they're the one that left pyramids there? Or, you know, who knows?

You know, in a crazy world, you never know, you know? Well, if we were wiped out, except for a few thousand people, and that few thousand people lived like cave people, lived like savages, and they made their way through the eras and eventually reinvented all the things that we have today, but there was no record left of what we have. Have you ever seen some of those photographs of places that were abandoned and not that long ago in Russia like you know places that were abandoned just a few decades Chernobyl

right there yeah it was a good event nature takeover did destroy everything yeah a thousand years from now there wouldn't be shit left they'd be very except things like gobekli Tepe. Stone structures. I had the chance to go on site for paleontology and ask some geologists. Where'd you go?

I went to many places. I went to Argentina, Patagonia, Alberta, Canada. I went to Dakota. Many places. I want to go in North Africa soon because there were very interesting life there

back in the Cretaceous. North Africa, like Egypt? Yeah, yeah, Egypt, Morocco, and there's places they're finding new fossils now. It was probably one of the most dangerous places where they had like super predator. The niche for super predator was amazing like it was a the niche for super predator was amazing but i i would i was going to say so yeah i asked them i said how about

a city like new york how much time it would it take to be destroyed by nature if an apocalypse happened and it doesn't take that long thousand years yes it doesn't take that long thousand years yes doesn't take that long like they say a thousand years that's the answer they gave me yeah and they say to me that the the the things that will stay the longest is the the structure that are built in rock yeah so yes because a structure that will um how do you say the the water will mix with the metal and will corrode and everything so all the building that we see let's say there is like

the ice sheet melt like or a comet hit Antarctica and there is like a big ocean rise this can all go away in a blink of an eye my friend that's a scary thing. It is.

It's pretty scary. It'd be nothing but the foundations. Yes. And that's what Randall Carson talks about, right? He talks about the rapid rise of the ocean, which is maybe something that has happened in the past. And that's why perhaps we've lost everything. We're so dependent on cell phones and things.

I don't know how to live as an hunter-gatherer anymore no most people don't we will die man we will die if we lose our technology how would we survive most people won't survive most people won't survive if we lose our technology but some will and they'll relearn things and that's that's what randall thought of and that's that's the uh the younger dryas impact theory that's what Randall thought of, and that's the Younger Dryas impact theory. That's what that is. And that means we will become the myth, the folklore of people who has technology. We'll be Atlantis. We'll be the theory of Atlantis.

Maybe that's what happened. I don't know. It's possible. We live in a very interesting time. We live in a very interesting time that we found out more and more about those things. Well, you see how it would happen just with coronavirus, just with the pandemic where civilization sort of crumbles partially. I mean, things fall apart. In Los Angeles, you drive down the road, you see buildings boarded up. All these places that used to have thriving businesses are gone.

Restaurants are gone. Tents are everywhere. People are living on the street. It's crazy. And that's just a very... In terms of the way diseases have impacted our culture, that's a small disease. It's a disease that only kills a small percentage of people.

Think of the Black Plague. Oh, yeah. Ebola. Yellow fever. Oh, my God. The Black Plague. One third of Europe. Dead. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Ebola the yellow fever oh my god the black plague like one third of Europe

dead yeah and lasted a long fucking time too killed people for a long time I think they thought it was like

because of their sins yes they found out after it was because of the rat that carries the mites yeah

it's crazy you know or ignorance sometimes take away our ability to uh involve right well i think we are clearly in an adolescent stage of of learning and growing and as much as we know now in comparison to what we knew a hundred years ago or a thousand years ago we're just learning we're just beginning and it's we're also in this very volatile environment in Earth.

You know, we're ruining the planet, right? So we're polluting it. We're filling the atmosphere with all sorts of chemicals and bullshit, and we're fucking up the ocean and dumping chemicals in the rivers and streams, and we're pulling all the fish out of the ocean. It's chaos. And we've got to right the ship, you know?

Just even if nothing hits us, just even if we don to write the ship you know just and just even if nothing hits us just even if we don't have a you know Yellowstone has thousands of earthquakes every year like there's a massive super volcano in Yellowstone that every six to eight hundred thousand years we're over there blows up yeah we're over to yeah I do you think they will know ahead of time or it will that scares me man, that scares me. You sure about that? Yeah, I don't think so.

I know you do a lot of podcasts with different guys, different scientists. Have you ever talked to a guy like this and asked him that question? Yes. Because that's presently my biggest fear. Super volcanoes? Like Yellowstone, that one is the one because we're overdue. Yeah, we're overdue.

And there is... I don't know if it's misinformation, but I is the one because we're overdue. Yeah, we're overdue. And there is, I don't know if it's misinformation, but I pay attention to certain things on the internet sometimes and I see that it starts to move a little bit

like they talk about some of the activity that goes on there. It could happen quick. That could be another apocalypse if it happens. Yes, and it's not

the only one. There's multiple active super volcanoes in the world that if they blow we're fucked and i think if i was an alien civilization and i was monitoring earth and i'd be like well we got to help these things get them move them along quicker because the place they live is crazy the place they live they only have a certain amount of time to evolve in order to

escape if their life is going to get to a point where they're so advanced that they can pop populate the universe and move out into other galaxies you got to help them we got to help them because these little monkeys aren't they don't have a shot they're gonna they're gonna get hit by as much as brilliant as they are the incredible things they've created they still they don't have enough time to to evolve to the point where they could get out of there before they get hit we live we live in a we live in a zone that it's like crossing an highway with our eyes closed you know that's a good way to put it boom might get hit by a comet or a volcano yeah it's true it's very unstable yeah we think of that is stable

because a light the life of a human being can perhaps extend to 100 years old, but it's been around for a long time. That's part of the problem, right, is that our life is so short that we don't have enough information. And unless people are writing things down, and even if they're writing things down, unless they're writing things down on stone, it's not going to survive past an apocalypse. That's right. Because the paper is going to be gone. They find things like the dead sea scrolls they're all it's all written on

animal skins and they found them in a tomb a cave in kumran you know like it's like these things and they have to do dna tests on the the skins to make sure they align them together when they're trying to piece together these little pieces of a story that these people are trying to tell from thousands and thousands of years ago that's why i think gobekli tepe is so fascinating because it's on rock and there is carving of animal that are not even indigenous of that area yes it's like how the hell not only that the carvings aren't carvings they're 3d structures so like they're they're it's not like someone carved into the stone. They removed all the stone around it. Who?

Have you ever seen it? No, I thought it was carving. It is carving, but it's not a carving like there's a flat stone and there's a drawing carved in. It's a 3D thing. So that means they carved away all the stone around these little things, which is far more complex. I think there is a message out there

because they deliberately buried the whole site, man. Yeah, they deliberately did. But they don't know who did that and they don't know why. So it goes to some of the other ones. There's some more interesting ones that show some of the weird shit of animals and stuff. But's some of the cooler ones in uh gobekli tepe that show uh the like these uh three-dimensional like uh little creatures see if you google three-dimensional

stone carvings on gobekli tepe there that one right there that one in the the far left of your cursor jamie there there is one no above that go above go There's one right there. That one in the far left of your cursor, Jamie. There is one that has... No, above that. Go above. Go above. Right there. Right there. Boom.

So that's a perfect example. Joe, there is one... See, look at that one. That's a complete 3D thing. So they carved out all the stuff around it to create whatever that is. A lizard or whatever

the fuck it is. There is one that is an image of someone that is holding someone that is holding someone. And that's when you talk about that, when you talk about ancestors, what does that mean? Does that mean, you know what I mean? There's a lot of conspiracy theorists about that one.

You know the one I'm talking about, the carving of, you can't see the head, but you see it's like a human is holding a baby but you don't know which one is the first one is that it i don't know they're all cool yeah it's cool shit i think there's a could be a message there that is because you know i think it's it there's something to learn out there i mean we live in a very interesting time it's it's fascinating well one of the more fascinating things about the construction of the the pyramids and the hieroglyphs is none of the hieroglyphs show the pyramid in various stages of construction. You would think you'd want to write that down. Of course. You're writing down all this other stuff, like Enki and people traveling to the dark lands and this is the afterlife.

They wrote all that stuff down. They didn't bother writing down how they created one of the most – unless they did it in the Library of Alexandria and it got burnt up. But in the hieroglyphs, they don't have like a depiction of the pyramid in various stages or the Sphinx in various stages. There's only a couple images, I believe, of them even moving stones. Wow. It's wild shit, man. Yeah, we don't know.

And I think a lot of people are afraid to admit when they don't know so they made up stories and could be yeah could be i think archaeologists and takes courage and guts to say you don't know well archaeologists are also very reluctant to uh entertain any other ideas other than the ones they've been teaching and writing books about so that's one of the things that gra Hancock and also Robert Schock ran into when they were trying to show images of the erosion that appears in the Temple of the Sphinx that seems to indicate that it's the result of thousands of years of rainfall. They violently oppose these ideas.

Some say it's the wind, but their argument are not very strong and i i like the one of robert chuck's much much better well he's a geologist i mean his his whole field of study is studying water and i did a podcast with him too back in the day yeah i've seen really interesting stuff man all those ideas are fascinating because if they're correct and it seems like they are it seems to indicate that this date that they put on civilization of egypt you know they're they have accurate dates about parts of egypt you know like the construction of the great pyramid but this would predate that by thousands and thousands of years because it seems to indicate that the result of the erosion is a

result of thousands of years of rainfall the problem with that is the last time there was that kind of rainfall in the Nile Valley was 9000 BC. So you got to go thousands of years before the construction of the pyramids. So the reason why they put this date is because perhaps it has been contaminated by a more recent civilization that went there. But that doesn't mean that it's the one that built it. Right. That's what they think about the Sphinx. Because the head of the Sphinx is smaller than the rest of the body. And the head of the Sphinx is clearly a man.

They probably did it like a pharaoh probably contracted them to build that. But it seems smaller. It's out of proportion to the rest of Sphinx. So at one time, it might have been a lion. And then some guys say, like, fuck that lion. Make my head. I think I've heard to the, I think it's 11,800. It was pointing to the Leo constellation.

Yeah, the Leo constellation. That's why they think it's a lion but I don't know I'm too dumb to know you know but I like to contemplate the idea I just hope it is true you know because we feel so lonely

you know what I mean I hope all that is true and yeah if there's anything that I hope I hope that aliens are real and that's my problem with my own thinking about it is that i want it to be true so badly that i almost ignore evidence to the contrary that's also why i get angry when i talk to someone who's full of shit when they then i know they're a liar and i know that they're lying about ufos and their ability to contact ufos and all the information that they know like okay you don't know shit the fucking government is trying to figure this out sometimes people believe what

they believe you know they believe their own stories but it doesn't mean they are lying they believe what what they seen is what you know what i mean so they make their own movies in their mind so but what's your your brain your your eyes look at the perception that it gives your brain sometimes it's it's not the truth well that's why the most fascinating uh encounter to me was commander fravor because he's a fighter jet pilot he knows what he's looking and And he also doesn't have any other stories like that. He's a hardcore, legitimate pilot who doesn't have a history of telling fantastic stories. He has one encounter with this thing that behaved in a way that they can't explain, actively blocked their radar, jammed their radar, which is technically an act of war,

and then behaved in a way, like moved in a way that they can't explain. And they tracked it. And they have video of this thing, and they know it's a thing. They don't know what the fuck it is. They don't know what it was doing there or why it was doing there. And he also said that it was hovering above something that was in the ocean. It was some waves washing over this thing, so it was clearly some large craft, and it's hovering hovering above it and then met them and looked at them like it was it was

turning towards them so it was aware that they were there there's different theory about these things you know some people believe it could come from the deep down in the ocean some people jack jack valley believe it's from another dimension Some people believe it's human from the future. Some people believe it's from another star system. Some people believe that everybody is full of shit and it's not true. Yep. Who knows? I don't know, man.

It's cool to talk about that. But I want it to be true, bro. Me too. I really want it. And it affects my judgment sometimes. Yes, me too. I'm glad you're honest about that. That's exactly how I feel.

It affects my judgment. But hey, me too. I'm glad you're honest about that. That's exactly how I feel. It affects my judgment. But hey, brother, so good to see you again. Thanks for being here, man. I really enjoyed it. John. Always a pleasure. Joe, thank you.

And man, it's good to see you. You haven't aged a bit. You're like wine. You get better with age. And you're still carrying that bazooka of a spinning back kick as a little weapon in your pocket. It doesn't get better than this, my friend. And you, my friend, you are a perfect example of a fighter who lived their career, did it all, became a champion, but then got out on your own terms.

I love that. You're a great example to young fighters coming up. Thank you, Joe. A perfect model. I want to be like you when I grow up. Thank you. you, Joe. A perfect model. I want to be like you when I grow up. Thank you. Goodbye, everybody.