The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #132 with Joaquin Buckley

Episode Date: November 11, 2022

Joe is joined by Joaquin Buckley, a mixed martial artist competing in the UFC's Middleweight Division. https://www.ufc.com/athlete/joaquin-buckley

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. Mr. Buckley, how are you, sir? Man, I'm doing good, Joe. Good to have you in here, man. Hey, man, thanks for having me. You are the owner of the most highlighted, the most viral video in the history of MMA, I think. That fucking jump, spinning back kick to the face.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so, man. You know, it took a minute for me to actually, like, think that it is, you know what I mean? Because there's so many other, like, awesome knockouts out there. You know, like my man, you know, Dan Hendo over, you know, Biz B, you know, with the H-bomb. And then with my man, S.M. Barbosa with the, you know, spinning heel kick on Terry Adam, you know. And, like, Francis Ngannou, you know what I'm saying? Like, just so many, like, different heavy hitters out there with great K the, you know, spinning heel kick on Terry Adam, you know, and like Francis Ngannou, you know what I'm saying? Like just so many like different heavy hitters out there with great KOs, you know, but once

I really like sat back and looked at it and it took some time to actually like take everything in, I'm like, yeah, that's pretty dope. Well, yours was crazy because he's holding one foot and you jump spinning back, kick him in the face with the other foot. Yeah. I mean, that is just wild. I mean, have you ever done that in a fight before? Nah, so that was my first time.

So, you know, if you want to really hear it, man, it's a long story with it because nobody taught me that kick, you know. What? I never had an instructor. Really? No, not at all. You know, I was just fascinated with martial arts, you know, since I was a little kid, you know.

And, you know, once I got, you know, started with MMA and stuff like that, the gym where I came from, it could only teach so much. The instructors only knew so much, you know what I mean? It was just like a mom and pop, you know, gym type stuff where, you know, a lot of, you know, people just get there to, you know, get into shape, you know? Right. But overall, though, when I used to go on YouTube, I used to watch a lot of different videos, you know, on how to, you know, not just train as a mixed martial artist, but just to learn, like, different moves and know on how to you know not just train as a mixed martial artist but just to learn like different moves and techniques from different disciplines

from uh not just taekwondo but you know hopkido you know kushin uh sanshao you know all these different disciplines i used to take from and uh then once i looked at the disciplines i looked at who the best people in it right and then i looked at different people that's uh in those disciplines whatever and guess who i ran into when I got into the Taekwondo I seen one of your videos no no for real for real on you taught George St. Pierre like how to correctly throw the spinning back kick yeah you know I mean but you at first showed him how to throw the sidekick and I used to watch those videos you know over and over again you know and then it evolved when I seen

Raymond Daniels perform the two touch yeah he did that two touch yeah yeah that's probably one of the biggest highlight reels in kickboxing big facts right you know but i seen that i was like man that's dope because it's a level up from what you're showing right yeah so i used to perform that on the bag on the heavy bag all the time and people like man what are you doing like whatever but i used to generate so much power when i used to balance, you know, my right foot on there. Because, not my right, but my left foot. Because I would come in like a roundhouse kick because I'm a softball. I would balance on the bag and then I would propel myself off the bag and I would spin.

And we used to make this hard pop like a shotgun, right? And we'd bend the entire bag. So, I'm like, bro, I feel like so powerful like throwing this kick. You know what I mean? But regardless, though, just seeing these people like do this stuff and just learning from them and just imitating these moves you know

years later then I end up performing that kick you know who's got some of the best instructionals of that of like traditional kicks like side kicks

and turning side kicks Michael Jai White I'm already hip I'm already hip watch the thousand Michael Jai White has some sharp technique yeah big facts

big facts and on top of that even before him Bill Super, Superfoot Wallace. Oh, yeah. Come on now. You know what I mean? Well, he had the best hook kick ever. His hook kick was incredible.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he only had one knee. His knee was fucked up. Yeah, big facts. And that's why, because he used to do judo. He used to do throws and stuff. He couldn't do it anymore, so he ended up transitioning just to kickboxing. But he taught himself how to just fight on that just that one side you know make himself you

know uh just like a line hard to hit you know but he made his uh his leg like a jab you know stick guys but he would hit with a roundhouse like you said uh uh heel hook kick you know i'm saying or just just like the spinning back kick as well you know if you can find a highlight of bill superfoot wallace i mean he got plenty, man. Because the fact that he only used one leg, because he had one knee that was just really fucked up, so he couldn't kick with it. So because he did everything off that one leg,

his one leg had so much dexterity. It's like that old school quote from Bruce Lee. Yeah, that's one of his little instructional videos. That's why I used to watch. I used to watch stuff like this all the time. And it's cool just coming back to it. And he was so fast, too, with it. Like, it was hard to see.

Yeah, this is old school. And he would joke around about, like, you know, the camera not being fast enough to see his feet, you know. Yeah. But he had the very best kicks off the front leg. Yeah, yeah, man. And he's still getting after it. He's still getting after it. I don't want to try to be funny, but I think my man's still alive.

Yeah, I think he is too. He did commentary in the first UFCs. Yes, he did, yeah. In the very early days. Yeah. So he's still out there. Look at that. Yeah.

So this is just a year ago. Yep, yep. Good for him. Yeah, man. Well, see if you can find some of his fights, because he knocked a lot of people out with those. Yeah, just try to put like verses in there. It'll pop up on its own. So like, Bill Superfoot. And there put like verses in there it'll pop up on its own so like yeah super for and there's like verse and then their show it was just so hard for people to deal

with oh that was in a force of one yeah yeah uh i think he fought this guy named joe lewis yeah yeah joe lewis down there and ray watched that one right there yeah that's a good one so joe lewis not the heavyweight boxer but the heavyweight kickboxer was a legendary karate fighter yeah exactly yeah and this is a fun fight to watch uh and look at that boom yeah that's style with that front leg the thing about that style though i always wondered like how would those guys do against like a muay thai guy through leg kicks because we saw that with you know with um a lot of fighters that had that style once they encountered like they encountered, like Rick Rufus. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Once they encountered leg kicks, they got kind of fucked up until they realized how to deal with it and how to use the leg kicks. Right. Then Rick Rufus became an incredible leg kicker. Well, I mean, perfect example. So Peter Cunningham. Yes. So you know who Peter Cunningham is?

Oh, Superfoot. Sugarfoot. Sugarfoot. Sugarfoot. Not Superfoot. Sugarfoot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but he fought Muay Thai guys and he used to whoop their ass. Yesfoot. Exactly. Not Superfoot. Sugarfoot. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But he fought Muay Thai guys and he used to whoop their ass. Yes, because he could throw leg kicks. Yeah, he could throw leg kicks and he had hands. Yes, he had everything. Yeah, yeah, bro. But that's like the beautiful thing about MMA is we're seeing all those techniques being incorporated. Yeah. Like a guy like you who can do all the other things, now you're learning jump spinning, back kicks, and all this other stuff. See, I always assumed watching you fight that you had some sort of a traditional martial arts background because you

throw so many sidekicks and they're so clean they're so sharp i i assumed uh i guess i can attribute that all from martial arts movies that's wild literally all from martial art like people think it's a joke but literally when i was a kid, you know, you know, just growing up, you know what I mean? My mom, you know, would raise me. She was, you know, single mother and stuff like that.

So she can only do so much, you know what I mean? So I was on the TV all the time. That's what raised me. You know what I'm saying? Just watching the tone kicks. Yeah, big facts, you know? Because I was around a lot of women,

you know? So when she needed help, I was with my godmother, Erica, and stuff like that. And I was with, you know, my godsisters and stuff like that. So there was a lot of, you know, women around. So I was looking for male influences and the fastest way I could find

it was just on TV you know what I mean so just looking at Bruce Lee looking at Jackie Chan looking like Michael Jai White Donnie Yen Tony Jai like these are the guys I'm like oh man I want to be like them you know what I mean so yeah it's amazing how many people got influenced to fighting and to traditional martial arts from movies big facts yeah I mean so that's like the the greatest kickboxers will tell you who bruce lee bruce lee is the one that got him into it you know it's the best salesperson ever is those movies yeah big facts i mean you look at like the emergence of karate academies in the country after bruce lee movies like through the roof yeah everybody wanted to learn including chuck nor Norris, you know? Yes. Yeah. Including Chuck Norris. So when you, what, what was your first actual like, uh, coaching in martial arts? Uh, my first coaching,

uh, that was gym at Finney's MMA. And how old were you then? I was 18. I started as soon as I got out of high school, man. Cause school wasn't for me at the time, man. You know what I'm saying? I was like, you know, not taking it seriously, but you know, I just always wanted to be a part of martial arts, you know, when I was younger and I knew I just always wanted to be a part of martial arts when I was younger. And I knew that wrestling was going to be a great foundation to start in. So when I was in middle school, got into high school, whatever, I got into wrestling. And then after that, after I graduated, went to Finney's MMA in 2012. So when you were wrestling in high school, were you thinking that you were doing this to prepare to fight?

Yeah. Really? Yeah. Interesting. Like low-key, but I knew that's what I wanted to do. And it was the closest thing to a discipline, to a martial Yeah. Really? Yeah. Interesting. Like, low-key, but, like, I knew, like, that's what I wanted to do, and it was the closest thing to a discipline, to a martial arts discipline, is wrestling. That's the only thing.

And probably the most important thing. I wasn't good at football. I wasn't good at basketball. I wasn't good at baseball. You know what I mean? Couldn't catch water if I fell out of a boat. You know what I'm saying? Like, so my biggest thing was, like, you know,

I never really liked sports anyway. It was just martial arts, and the only thing that I could apply those skills to was wrestling, you know, because my mom didn't want to put me into, like, any karate. All that stuff costs money, you know, I never really liked sports anyway. It's just martial arts. And the only thing that I could apply those skills to was wrestling, you know, because my mom didn't want to put me into like any karate. Oh, that still costs money, you know, at the end of the day. But wrestling was free. And so when you first got into actual coaching, you already knew how to kick then just from watching movies and shit. Somewhat. I wouldn't say I actually knew how to kick, but like that's where it's imitation.

You know what I'm saying? Life imitates art, right? So that's my biggest thing is just like, I used to watch these guys and you got to realize like these guys that's playing or actors are real martial artists. Oh yeah. You know what I mean? So they, they using real techniques at the end of the day. So I just get to look at that and use it and just apply it.

You know, I love like one of my favorite movies to watch is Blood and Bone, you know, with Michael John White, with Kimbo Slice, you know, and it's a lot of techniques that he uses that I'm like, oh, but that'd be dope to, you know,

pull off, you know, so yeah, I would say like that was my start into martial arts was the movies, but my real like actual training started when I was 18. And so when you were 18,

how long was it before you had your first fight? Right, it actually didn't take long. I think it was like a little bit of like nine months, ten months into training, and I had my first fight. Was it an MMA fight? Yeah, yeah. It was an MMA fight. Yeah.

So in Missouri, in St. Louis, whatever. So as amateurs, like, we didn't need the headgear. We didn't need to wear like shin guards or nothing. So you fought like a pro. You know, the only thing that you couldn't do was, like, heel hooks and knee to the head. No heel hooks? No heel hooks, yeah. Interesting.

Yeah, no heel hooks. But all the other submissions were okay? Yeah, and no elbows. Every other submission was cool. No elbows, no knees, no cuts, you know, and then no heel hooks. That was the only rule. So just a few limitations. Yeah, yeah.

And so did they have a comprehensive amateur program there? Or was it balanced? Were you fighting someone that had experience or were you just fighting another person? I was just fighting another person, man. Like I don't think it was balanced yet. You know, even in 2012, you know, everybody had the showdown, you know, so like, you knowwise or how to, you know, develop a fighter, if that makes sense, you know. Because I feel like still to this day that a lot of MMA gyms still not doing it right, you know. But that's a whole other conversation for a whole other day. So a lot of these guys that was in amateur fighting just wanted to fight just to get the feel for it, you know. And those are the type of guys I was fighting almost like at the amateur level, you know. Well, we had dinner that one night.

We were talking about the difference between going to a big gym and the way you're doing it at a smaller gym yeah and there's some interesting conversation to be had about that because you made some really good points about when you're in a smaller gym you get individualized attention and you're not getting lost in the crowd exactly and that there's so much information out there already with all the videos that are out there and all the fights you can watch. So sometimes it's good just to be, so my coach is a perfect example, right? He have us working on the same thing

over and over and over again. And we know it. And we know it by like heartbeat. But, and we tell coach like, hey coach, can we do something different? He's like, yeah, but I want y'all to do this. You know what I mean? And you need that type of discipline, whatever, just to keep doing the same thing

because that's how you actually work on your tools. You work on the basics over and over again. You know what I'm saying? Then it becomes instinct, you know? So even though we have so much applied knowledge out there and so many things that we can do, sometimes it's like the basic knowledge that we have, and if we work with a smaller gym, we're able to focus on that a little bit more, you know a team you know instead of everybody just doing their own thing because i

don't care nobody say like big gyms everybody's just doing their own thing everybody's just working with who they're working with you know they're not even working with the coach unless they got a name and they got a big fight coming up that's the thing right because that's what i hear it's like you get two arguments one of them is iron sharpens iron so if you're around like if you go to att if you're an american top team, world-class facility, giant place, dormitories, world-class guys coming from all over the world. But when I've talked to fighters who train there, they say, look, man, you get in there with some Russian dude you never met before and he's trying to kill you. Yeah, big fact. And that there's no supervision.

Like if you're not a world-class guy, if you're not a top of the food chain guy that has a lot of money riding on him, they'll put you in there with everybody who's in class. Big fact. And you're going to have to sing a swim. You know what I mean? Yes. And you have to develop and become that individual in order for them to work with you. Yes. But they're not going to develop you, you know?

So a lot of guys get it twisted when they go to these big gyms and they think that they're going to be elevated because of the guys that they're around. But at the same time, like you said, people are just trying to beat you up. Right. You know what I mean? So you're not really learning anything. So that's one thing I talk about, structure, right? So just because you're a big gym and you're able to have all these, you know, housing for fighters, you know what I mean?

You got the big, nice mats. You got the heavy bags and all this other stuff. You got all the pretty stuff, but you have no structure within the gym. You know, a lot of guys should be working with certain people to develop their skills so like let's say you know certain pros high level pros you know i mean not saying that a high level pro can't work with an amateur but certain amateurs shouldn't be working with certain pros like they should be developed to a certain point where they showing that they know enough and now they can move up and work with certain individuals right so i get fed to the wolves.

Exactly. You know what I mean? Because all it's going to do is hurt the little young amateur. And then sometimes amateurs be doing the wrong thing and be going too hard and could end up cutting, you know what I'm saying, a high-level pro, you know, and they might not be making a lot of money, but that's somebody that's a potential prospect. Yes. But now they ain't got a fight coming up because they was going with this amateur

because they ain't had nobody else to go with. Right. You know, so, you know, it's a lot of things, you know, that play a part into having a big gym and a small gym. But I just love having a small gym just because you get that actual attention that you need. Well, it sounds like your coach is a fantastic coach. Oh, he's one of the best in the world. What's his name?

Joaquin Mercy Lago. So we got the same first name. That's crazy. That's an odd name. It's not a lot of those Joaquins out there. So when you're, what's the name of the gym uh mercy and and and when you're working with him it's like specifically with him and a bunch of other people or like so so he so he's the head coach you know um for mma wise and then we have

uh nick simmons so the gym itself is called Salt Academy. It's a wrestling academy. So he has a lot of high-level prospects, high school wrestlers, middle school wrestlers, some of the best wrestlers, you know what I'm saying, in the nation, you know, that come to him to learn wrestling. So his name is Nick Simmons. But I work with his older brother, Andy. No, actually younger brother, Andy Simmons. That's who I work with.

And he's more my size and stuff like that. So I get a lot of high-level wrestling from him because both of them are hall of famers uh at michigan uh state which is pretty dope you know and uh so they got a a nice revenue you know saying i have revenue but like a great career uh within wrestling went undefeated you know saying for the longest time like i think over 200 300 bouts or something like that undefeated, you know, saying for the longest time like I think over 200 300 bouts or something like that Undefeated and then I got a conditioning coach at the HBI Human Performance Institute Justin Hart he was an NFL player, you know, that's what we get all our conditioning working So like we don't have many many guys, you know, but at the end of the day we have enough to work with

We also got a guy that works with our jiu-jitsu who works at Magic named Brendan Berry who does all our jiu-jitsu. But the crazy thing about him, he's not a black belt. He's not a high-level jiu-jitsu guy. He's somebody that's just passionate about jiu-jitsu, who watches it every day. And he shows us stuff that actually works, but he's somebody that's committed to it and who watches it every day. And that's who we learn jiu-jitsu from. Well, that was the case a long time ago. There was a lot of guys that were like blue belts and purple belts that were opening up schools because they didn't have a real good

school around them and they knew that they could teach at least a base of fundamentals and if they were really excited and passionate about jujitsu they would grow with their students exactly exactly and that's exactly what he's doing with us you know uh because i can see brandon uh going very far you know and being an instructor going far in the ju us, you know, because I can see Brandon going very far, you know, and being an instructor, going far in the jiu-jitsu, you know. But just somebody that, you know, not looking for anything out of it, you know. He never asked me for any money or nothing like that. But he shows me a lot of things that helped me win the fight against Albert Duraya, you know, how to get the stand up, you know, how to get my guard back, you know. And, you know, it's just crazy because in that fight, a lot of people had me pick to lose, you know how to get my guard back you know and uh you know it's just crazy because in that fight

a lot of people had me pick to lose you know and thinking like okay Albert Dura is changed at this big gym you know at Extreme Couture and stuff like that he has all the tools he has all the resources and then I go back to Michigan I don't have much but I got the people that's able to work on the things that we need to work on and we do it repeatedly until I get it down and then we're able to show that in the fight. And I feel like that's what I'm saying. We're actually showing what works within this game because if you got the right group of people that you're working with that can help advance you in your career and stuff like that,

then that's what you need to mesh up with. But a lot of fighters feel like they need to move on from the gym that they come from that they was developing well at to go to a bigger gym, you know. And that's not the way to go always. Not always, right? It really does depend upon the environment and who the coach is and what kind of relationship we have with them. But it seems like you've got a good one set up. Yeah, yeah.

So how do you balance out how much grappling you do versus how much striking you do? It seems like you prefer striking. That seems like your level of expertise. I wouldn't say the level of expertise, but that's where the money come in. That's where the money comes in? Yeah, that's where the money come in. Yeah, but I just want to always be exciting. But now we're trying to switch the gears into just becoming a winner

because now we got money in the bank. So my biggest thing is when i went out for my first usc fight with kevin holland i just chose to stand on the feet i could have took kevin holland down i could have you know i mean put it put myself in a better position to win but i decided just to strike and you know i fell on that he beat me you know in the third round you know and he got the advantage on me but at the end of the day i was like i want to make these fights exciting and and fan appealing which even with the loss i had against Kevin Holland people still wanted to watch me fight right you know and then coming into my second fight with um Ampa Kasagan I you know still

chose I mean I'm mixing a little bit of takedown but I let him back up I was like right I want to keep this on the feet I want to keep going and then of course we did what we did you know so like my whole course is just going through my career I just wanted to strike with these guys and get good knockouts so I can get a third check so you are thinking that way you think that's what i was thinking very excited i was thinking yes and now you're thinking i want to be a champion yes sir yeah yeah that's the shift right the pivot and sometimes guys get criticized for that and i i'm opposed to that criticism people are saying oh they're fighting boring and i'm like i don't't know what you think is boring.

I think baseball is boring. I don't think fighting is ever boring. Because there's always a potential for something crazy to happen. But the intelligent fighters know how to win. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like Floyd Mayweather. Like, for me, when I watch him, and obviously you got some of the best defensive fighter is him. But when you watch him fight, you can call it born if you want to but when you really pay attention and the things that

He's doing in high. He's you know Moving around fighters and how he's evading these punches and you know and able to counter fighters like well That's very intriguing masterful masterful. And then now we talk about you know, Izzy, you know, it's the same way same thing same exact That was my argument about the Jared can and you're fine. They were like, oh, he should have engaged more. I'm like, dude, he's fighting Jared Kananir. You can't engage all the time recklessly with that dude. That dude's a powerhouse. And that's the thing.

I'm not mad at Izzy for what he does because that's what he keeps doing, right, in order to retain his title. And I hope he keeps doing it. I hope he does it against Alex Ferrer. I pray. I pray. I want to talk to you about that fight. Big facts.

Because it's kind of your division, but maybe not in the future. What are you going to do? Have you decided? Yeah, I've already decided. I'm going down to one set. Yes. I'm about to get there. But regardless.

But you're going to have this fight with Chris Curtis? Yes, Chris Curtis. And that's at 85. That's at 85. So they wanted me to have one more fight at 185. They was like, well, if you want to make this good little money, we sign at 185, fight CeCe, and then we can talk about you moving down to 170.

Are they opposed to you moving down to 170? I don't think they're opposed, but they only seen me at 185. Right. You know what I mean? So they like, well, first off, because there's so many different things because people haven't seen me fight at 170, even though the majority of my fights are welterweight fights. Really?

Yes, sir. Yeah, so the majority of my career since I was 18, since I've been an amateur, everything, and going into pro, I was a 175. Dude, you're pretty fucking swole. Yeah, I am pretty swole. But, you know, don't let these muscles deceive you. You know what I'm saying? So, I mean, I think Michael John White talked about it before, too.

Like, when he's bulking, you know what I mean? Like, a lot of people think he's bigger then. Well, he is bigger, but they think he's smaller when they see him. But when he's cut up, you know what I'm saying, and he's clean, that's when they think he's his biggest because they see all the muscle and it's so defined and everything. But he's actually lighter. But he's smaller when they see him but when he's cut up you know what I'm saying and he's clean that's when they think he's his biggest because they see all the muscle and it's so defined and everything but he's actually lighter

but he's actually lighter you know and it's the same thing with me you know so it's just that perception that people see like oh they think

I'm a lot bigger than what I really am actually in that Nasher Dean fight I walked into that fight at 185 did you really yeah yeah

at 185 I actually cut I cut too much damn weight no way I was walking around at 181. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow.

Even the PI guys, they can tell you. So what do you weigh right now? Yeah, I'm a little heavy right now. I've been eating good. Texas barbecue. Yeah, big fact. But I never get up to 200. So I'm probably at 195.

I never get up to 200. Interesting. That's very light for 85. Exactly. Especially when you look at some of those giant dudes. Yeah, I mean, all of them. Shoot, Nash Dean, Alex Pereira, cutting from 240. You know what I'm saying?

Jared Kananir used to be a heavyweight. Oh, yeah, Jared Kananir's as big as it gets. You know what I'm saying? Like, come on now. He's as big as it gets at 85. Well, that was what I was saying about Izzy. Like, the way he fought him was the perfect way to fight him. Oh, he was smart.

You got to fight Jared Kananir like that. The only person that I give any slack to is Jared Kananir himself. Yes. Because he had the best opportunity, right? And I feel like even if he didn't win, he still could have brought the fight a little bit better. Because Izzy doesn't mind a fight, you know what I mean? But he wants you to bring the fight to him. But you see Jerry Kennedy trying to clinch up against him, trying to do tactics I ain't never seen him do before.

What happened to the killer gorilla? You know what I'm saying? What happened to the rocks that you keep in your pocket? You know what I'm saying? Like all these little different things that give you mental fortitude, but you fought scared that night. I don't care. I don't care. Nobody say, Jared came in there and fought scared that night.

Really? You think he fought scared? I never seen him fight. I mean, when he fought Jack or Massey, he ran through. But that's a different fighter. It's like he's fighting. When you fight Izzy, I think you're fighting a supercomputer. When that dude's standing in front of you and he's throwing all those feints and movements.

We can debate all day, but my thing is if I was to fight Izzy, you got to put that pressure on him like Kevin Gaston did. And now, of course, Izzy could have gotten better from that fight, which he more likely did. He certainly did, but still, you never seen him fight that type of fighter again. With Kevin Gaston being in the southpaw, a shorter fighter, an inside fighter, putting pressure on him, he never fought that type of fighter again you know with kevin gaslin been in the southpaw a shorter fighter inside fighter as you know putting pressure on him he never fought that type of individual again you know and i feel like my uh striking and my stature fits like a kevin gaslum you know and i feel like my footwork is a little better than kevin gaslum as well so i wouldn't just be going straight in i would hit different angles on izzy that's how you beat izzy i feel like is taking it out of a kickboxing range, you know what I mean?

Putting it in a boxing range and fighting inside, you know? And then guess what? Mixing in the takedowns, you know? But guess what? It's kind of hard to takedown Izzy. But at the same time, like even with Robert Whittaker, a lot of people say he probably won that fight, but I feel like he didn't do enough, though, you know?

There's so many little debates that you can put up behind it, but my thing is I feel like Izzy is able to be finished in certain positions that he put himself in because there's a lot of things that he do because of his reach. He leans back a lot to try to counter away from punches, right? But if you can find that angle and you can see the holes opening there because his body is there, his chin is available, you know, you can find that punch. And I felt like Jared Kananir could have exposed a lot of that if he fought the way That he fights a lot of other guys, you know, you just have to run the risk of getting knocked out

There it is. Hey, you know say if you start to get knocked out then you know me you probably shouldn't be in this game Right or wrong. Yeah, I think he probably felt like he'll find that opportunity somewhere in the fight So it's like don't get knocked out while you're trying to find that opportunity Yeah, but but at the same time like it's scary though i know what you're saying you know it's scary like so my biggest thing is just trying to figure out how mike tyson my one of my favorite fighters like he always put pressures on guys like you could you could knock out mike if he came towards you but he was evasive you know yeah he's moving his head the whole time moving his feet shifting everything oh yeah and it was all about angles but But he never let the pressure down because he could probably get knocked out.

He just worked on his defense. So even with Robert Whitaker, that first fight that they had, that's why he got knocked out because he added so much pressure, but he left a lot of holes open for Izzy to expose. But if you could have just worked on just keeping your hands up and working inside and moving your angles and stuff, you probably could have did a little better on the second end, which did taking them down and trying to but you trying to game plan on how to take the belt like bro you got to beat that individual and i don't know how you feel about that

but my biggest thing is just like you can't just like barely beat a champion and be like all right it's my belt now you know that's just me and my opinion and that's how it's always been you know i kind of see that but whoever wins the fight wins the fight if someone wins a clear-cut unanimous decision but for a title that's still winning yeah where have we seen that man like you know with dominic reyes and john jones valentina i feel like valentina lost that last fight like low-key uh very close fight very close fight but debatable that she lost debatable you know what i'm saying but at the same time debatable robert whittaker and izzy that's debatable too but the thing Debatable. You know what I'm saying? But at the same time. Well, debatable Robert Whittaker and Izzy.

That's debatable, too. But the thing is, though, forget debate. Y'all got to take that thing. You got to take it. You got to take it. I feel that. I completely appreciate that. I think Robert Whittaker was a way better fighter in the second fight.

I think losing to Izzy just reignited that fire inside of him. Because I think fighters, and you know, you can speak to this better than me, but I think fighters, they go in sort of cycles. Sometimes they're just not totally focused and motivated, or maybe they're overwhelmed by pressure. There's so many different things, because you never know what's going on outside in their lives and stuff. But for Robert Whitaker, he went into the fight as a winner. I remember Michael Bisbee said something like, Robert Whitaker didn't look as confident in the second round. But my thing is, though, Robert Whittaker getting up to that title fight, he's been winning in decisions, right?

So he got used to just beating guys and taking them to a point where he's just outpointing them, for real. Even with the Jerry Kananir, when he broke Jerry Kennedy's forearm, it ain't like he was hunting for the finish. He's just outpointing, just touching guys. You're thinking with a man with one arm, you'd probably be able to get him out of there. Did he know he had one arm, though? He didn't know his arm was broken. I ain't say he know it, but

at the same time, if you apply that type of pressure and you put it on somebody, you can only do so much with a broken arm. But shout out to Jerry Kennedy for even fighting like that, right? Yeah. So I was hoping that same dog would come out in the Izzy fight. But regardless, like, we skipping points, you know. I know what you're saying, but, you know,

it's armchair quarterbacking, right? So with Robert Whitaker, you know what I'm saying? I felt like, in my mind, he just got used to just coasting for a lot of his fights because it wasn't close. He would win every round when he fought, what, Kevin Gaslam, when he fought Darren Till. You know what I'm saying? He was just beating these guys by decision and fairly easy. And Jerick and Aeneas, fairly easy. And then when he got to Izzy, he thought he could win the same type of way, you know?

went in the same type of way, you know, in my opinion. I think he's also, I think the Izzy fight, it's just my opinion, but I think he was suffering from those fights with Yoel Romero, too. When you fight Yoel Romero, that motherfucker takes something from you. He takes, that's like fighting a brick wall. That dude is, he's different. I can see that, you know. He's so different. And those fights were horrendous.

Remember, he got knocked down and hurt. Yeah, yeah, and got back up like a jeep. He tried to do the same little tactic that Yoel did, you know what I'm saying, when he jacked his knee up. Side kick to the knee. Yeah. Well, Yoel fucked his knee up in that first fight. Yeah. What do you think about that side kick to the knee?

That's controversial, right? I mean, it's legal. It's legal. Yeah. I mean, I haven't done it, you know what I'm saying, to anybody. I haven't seen the opportunity to do it. But if I see somebody with a straight leg, I haven't done it, you know what I'm saying, to anybody. I haven't seen the opportunity to do it. But if I see, like, somebody, like, with a straight leg, you know, I would never do it if somebody has a strong stance.

It wouldn't make any sense to do it then. But if I see somebody has, like, a Sean Strickland is a perfect example. If you stand like a Sean. Straight up. Yeah, I'm killing that knee. Yeah. Yeah, big facts. Well, Jon Jones is the master at that.

Yeah. All that length. Big facts. He's the best at using distance. No one's better at using distance. Jon's the best. Yeah, he is the master at that. Yeah. All that length. Big facts. He's the best at using distance. No one's better at using distance. Jon's the best. Yeah, he is the best because of his attributes. You know what I mean?

Because like the 84, you know what I'm saying? Sure. His reach, like that's crazy. And then on top of that, the legs. I don't know, but your legs is longer. Yeah. You know? So with having all that reach, I feel like that's what, but a lot of people are like,

oh, he's like one of the best defensive or best footwork. I'm like, nah, not at all. But it's not a footwork thing. It's using his attributes. Yeah, but that's what, but a lot of people are like, oh, he's like one of the best defensive or best footwork. I'm like, nah, not at all. But it's not a footwork thing. It's using his attributes. Yeah, but that's what some people would say. Mighty Mouse has the best footwork. Big fact.

Hold on now, hold on now, hold on now. You know, I got some good footwork too. You got very good footwork, but come on, man. Mighty Mouse is off the charts. Oh, no, Mighty, that's my top one. Mighty Mouse would come in like this

and then all of a sudden he'd be over here. No, big fact, big fact. You know, I gotta put myself in the mix. I understand, but I understand. Yeah, but no, I facts. You know, I gotta put myself in the mix. I understand, bro. I understand. But no, I love Mighty Mouse, man. Shout out to him, man.

He definitely on my pound for pound. You know what I'm saying? Oh my God. Of all time. Of all time. And he's a guy who talked about having all the stuff in your personal life in order.

Last time he was here, he was like, you know what, a big part of my success is having a stable family life. Having a wife, having, you know, not having any personal problems, no crazy people in your life, no bullshit that drags you down. Big facts.

Which is a problem with fighters. Yeah, I mean, because it can apply, you know, negative energy into your life and into your training. You know what I mean? You're not able to focus on the things that's really important as in, you know, being able to provide for your family because this is how we eat. Yes. You know? And if you got to focus on other stuff and try to get your life in order like a Jon Jon, and that's a crazy thing.

Jon Jon will be going through crazy stuff. The craziest. And still able to maintain on the highest level. And still to go. And still to go. Crazy. Remember when he said to Daniel Cormier, I fought you and beat you after I did coke.

That's wild. And everybody's like, oh, no. Because Daniel's in there training with kane velasquez and drinking only water man and and that's wild to me that uh john john but i feel like he probably been doing it for so long that it became natural for him because obviously he was a champion at what the age of 23 years old and he probably was always doing this little crazy stuff i mean kobe coveyson was talking about it like when he was roommates with him like he was always a wild boy, always loved to party.

So it was just something that he became accustomed to and a part of. But sometimes I'd be like, brother, you ain't getting tired of that? You know what I'm saying? You ain't getting wore out? You would think so. I mean, my man, wait. How old is John now? 30.

John's in his 30s. 32? I think he's a little older than that. How old is John? Is he 34? I mean, John won the title, the youngest ever. This is the time to come back, I feel like, for John. If he waits any longer, I feel like

he needs to stay away. Well, according to John, the holdup is Stipe. Stipe did not want to sign for the fight for December 10th. And I don't know what that is, whether they didn't offer Stipe enough money. I don't know what's going on, so I don't want to speak out of line.

But I think they're targeting when Francis' knee is recovered. A Francis Ngannou, Jon Jones fight. Oh, okay, so they're getting rid of the steep egg. Because I feel like before he fights Francis, he needs to fight somebody like a steep egg or a Tua Vassa. You know what I mean? Somebody like that just really

shows that you belong at heavyweight before you just fight for it. I would say that for anybody else. For anybody else, I would say that. But when you're talking about the greatest light heavyweight, you just fight for it. I would say that for anybody else. For anybody else, I would say that. But when you're talking about the greatest light heavyweight, maybe the greatest

mixed martial artist of all time, let him fight at heavyweight for the title. I would have said that probably two years ago. But it's time. You know what I'm saying?

But he's training. The thing about John is, John's wild, but he's also smart. One of the things that John's doing is putting on so much weight. He's fucking huge now.

I mean, John's like 255 jacked, all filled out. Big fat. If he can maintain that endurance and keep that kind of pace that he had at light heavyweight at 205, and if you look at his strength and conditioning work that he's doing, man,

he's doing it the right way. It's nasty. He's building up slowly. But this ain't lifting weights, though. It's not lifting weights. You already know. Be honest with you. We don't see what goes on.

And I know he's training hard. I know he's, well, first off, he did change the team, obviously, right? He got kicked out of Jason. I don't know the story behind that. I don't know the story either. Yeah, so my biggest thing. So, like, all right, who you training with now? Who you sparring with?

Who you working with? You know, those are the things that I want to see. I don't want to just see you in the weight room. Is he doing something with Henry Cejudo? I don't know. I have no clue. I think he was working with him for a minute. A lot of guys working with Henry Cejudo.

I like what Henry's doing. I like what Henry's doing. That's a focused man. Big fact, man. He's a focused man. And he's keeping himself involved, for sure. Even though he's not fighting, he wants to come back, for sure. Well, they're talking about him fighting Aljamain Sterling for the title,

which I hope takes place. Yeah, I hope it takes place. That's a very good fight. I like that fight a lot. For him to come right back straight to the title makes sense. Two-division champion, Olympic gold medalist, one of the greats. Yeah, you're right. And actually, that was the original weight class that Henry came from, right? so it was uh 125 135 yeah well he you know he won at 25 and he was

the top but he also won at 35 i feel like him coming back at 35 to fight aljo's a very legit fight i like that fight a lot i'll be honest with you i think aljermaine take them aljermaine's i think you take that one Low key bro And right now Aljamain's a champion You know what I'm saying Like when a guy Becomes a champion Yeah like the way

He fucked over TJ Dillashaw He beat the shit out of that dude And I know TJ's shoulder Was fucked up But dude This just The way Aljamain Fought Piotr Jan

In the second fight too He's a champion now There's a thing That happens to a guy When he comes into his own And you go You know what I can't wait to see him again Because I think he's Going to be even better That's how I feel About Aljo right now there's a thing that happens to a guy when he comes into his own and you go you know what i can't wait to see him again because i think he's going to be even better yeah that's how i feel

about aljo right yeah yeah it's like that you you realize like the confidence is there and when you talk about like and for 135 like the physique that aljomaine has like the the type of shape that he's in oh yeah bro i'm like bro he ain't looking like other 135 he's the perfect 135 it's like the perfect amount of weight cutting yeah yeah like he's got his diet dialed in he comes out shredded his but he also has great cardio big fat and he's long too yeah 35 he's big dude he's walking around 176 when i saw him like that's wild that's wild you know and that's the thing that's why i know i i'll be cool at getting down to 170 because i ain't got to cut a massive amount of weight. And definitely when I clean up my diet, the biggest I'll probably cut is like 20.

Well, if you were walking around at 181 before you fought at 185, that seems easy for you to make 170. You know what I'm saying? But that's the thing. I was walking around at 182, 185. You know what I'm saying? Like when I was like 21, 22. shoot shoot i think how long i've been walking so like since i was 18 going up to like 23 years old i was walking around that way you know well i didn't actually start to fill out until i didn't get any fights at 170 it makes

sense that they want to see you like cut the weight though because like you see there's so many problems like hamzaat's the biggest problem trying to get down to 170 and the dude misses it by 8 pounds which is fucked up the whole card yeah man

now hold on and I love to talk about this too because I don't think the UFC set this up like no crazy stuff I ain't trying to be on no brandish nah

I ain't trying to be on no brandish but low key it just worked out too well it did work out too well but that's how things happen sometimes. You think so? Yeah, it's my whole life. It's your whole life? All right, man, I get it.

Trust me, things just work out sometimes. Yeah, big facts. Okay. That was a situation where it was the best case scenario in terms of options. Because Kevin Holland had fought at 185 before, and he was available, and he was willing, and then they got in a squabble backstage, and so they said, all right, let's just make this at 180, and Kevin's like, good, because Kevin was already supposed to fight Daniel Rodriguez at 180.

All that made sense. Yeah. The guy who got fucked over is the leech. The thing is, though, and that's the thing, it really didn't make no sense, because why are they fighting at 180, and then why did they just put on a card last minute? Well, they had no other options. The only other option was cancel the card. Like, what is the option?

Why would they have to cancel it? No, no, no, no. I'm not talking about like, no, no. I'm talking about why even put Kevin Holland versus, what's the homeboy's name? D-Rod. Why even put that fight on the card? And why is it catchweight? Kevin Holland can make the weight.

D-Rod has always fought at 170. So why is he already making up his mind I want to fight at 180? Well, they had made that arrangement far in advance. It was a last minute fight that they put on. Yeah, but I mean, it wasn't like the day of. Daniel Rodriguez and Kevin Holland. All I'm

saying is just for it to be at 180 and them to make that decision to make it at 180, that's all I'm talking about. Because then also, Tony Ferguson versus G. Leang, that fight didn't make no sense. When they made the fight, that fight didn't make no sense to me. Well, that fight made sense to me. All right, go ahead. It made sense to me because Tony Ferguson's coming off a knockout loss to Chandler.

Yeah. Moving up to 170? Yeah, but the thing about it is I think as you get older, and I think it becomes more and more difficult for you to make the weight, and you feel weakened by the weight cut. Daniel Rodriguez, the reason why that made sense, if you look how big he looked against Lee Jing Leon, and when I mean big, I mean like carrying body fat. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He chubbed me. I don't know. D-Rod ain't never come in shape. He's in shape, but he's just not ripped. He's just got that Cain Velasquez style body know where they never look shredded, but they're always in shape Yeah, and I think that he was probably heavy and he said look I'll take the fight, but I'm heavy right now I'm not gonna make 170. I'll kill myself. Uh-huh. So let's do it at 180 and Kevin's like fine I fight at 185 all the time. We're good. Right, right, right

So it's got all the pieces of a conspiracy. Yeah, man. There's logic behind it Big fat because the Hamza fact. It makes sense. Because the Hamzat and Diaz make sense only because, like, UFC don't want Diaz to come on, you know what I'm saying? And be able to shine off of the top. It didn't make sense, though, right? Because a lot of people are like, Jesus Christ, Hamzat's so big. Diaz has fought at 155. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hamzat's coming in.

This motherfucker is like— It's an easy kill for Hamzat. Yeah, it's a big— Easy money, you know? And then also you help develop—even though Hamzat still got a crazy following, but it's still not the American base, you know what I mean? So, like, it helps build his name. So that fight did make sense for me right there.

But then it's like the whole switch up. I'm like, bro, that's too perfect because then you have Kevin Holland and Hamzat that had their whole little dispute, right? Yes. And you already got Kevin Holland who didn't have to cut no weight. And that's the thing about even Kevin. Shout out to him. He wasn't cutting weight for real at 185 you know I'm saying like like my man was just walking around you know smoking doing this little thing and like walking to the cage and you fight

at 185 yeah you know for sure so they had that fight at 180 and then tell huh when I want to say tell Hansa but Hans I said himself that the doctor told him stop coming wait Hans I was like well I can make it you know I'm saying so I don't think it's on the fighters but I feel like the UFC told him to stop cutting weight. Hanzo was like, oh, well, I can make it. You know what I'm saying? So I don't even think it's on the fighters, but I feel like the UFC was able to mess this up a little too well. Well, let me tell you, because I know. Yeah, you know.

I'm the scenes. I talked to Dana when the shit went down. He's like, this is a fucking mess. What the fuck? He goes, I don't know what we're going to do. So they were in chaos. And then they masterminded. They got together and they brainstormed. They said, okay, what if we do this and this and this?

And it turned out, like we were talking about it, it's a better card. It was a better play. It was way better. Way better. Ferguson versus Diaz, a competitive matchup. That made sense. Yeah. You know, Hamzat versus Kevin Holland.

That makes sense. I'm not arguing that. Yeah, it all makes sense. That's a perfect, that's how it should have been in the first place. The only thing that didn't make sense to first place I think Lee Jin Lian got fucked he got played he even said it too he didn't even get

more money but D-Rod is still a 170 fighter though but he do cut a lot of weight though you know what I'm saying and my thing is but G-Lian

he had to put in that extra work in order to get that weight down to 170 because G-Lian is a ripped guy so I know it's hard

to even try to get to the 170 weight class for him. So, you know, he did have a little disadvantage. I felt like Julian won that fight, too, bro. I felt like he did enough to win. You know what I mean? It was so close. It was close, though. It was certainly a very close fight.

You know what I'm saying? But then, you know, and shout out to Neil Magny, who just finished D-Rod. Because Neil Magny is one of the most underappreciated guys in the UFC. Yeah, low-key. That guy has cardio. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The pace that dude puts on people, he's such a workman. He just comes in and just constant volume, long reach.

I don't know. I feel like Neil Magny, he does a good job of getting guys to fight his style. Yes. You know what I'm saying? He takes his time with guys, and guys take that pace, but then don't realize, okay, oh, time is getting Ate up right now And Neil Mackney

Does a good job Of tying guys up Just using that long job It's boring I ain't gonna lie to you It's so big Even though when you say Oh it's not boring

It's masterful But there's a lot of things I be saying Neil Mackney do And I be I ain't gonna lie to you I be falling asleep Because you like exciting shit You're a wild man

I am a wild man But I don't know Speaking of Neil Mackney And I'm glad he got a win Because you never know With the UFC With losses and stuff like that But that Shobcock kid

The undefeated You know what I'm saying He demolished Neil Magny bro He's good And what he got him out The first round Yeah

That guy's good He's good He's under the radar Like with mainstream people They do not know That's the real Homzak killer to me He's a bad motherfucker.

Like, with, what, 16 finishes, 17 finishes? Yeah, and he does everything. You know? He can do everything. Yeah, big fact. He's a striker, grappler, everything. I think he got a fight coming up against Jeff Neal. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's right, that's right. That's a banger. That's a banger. I like Jeff Neal now. Jeff Neal's back. Yeah, yeah, big facts, big facts. You know, he went through a period of time where he was dealing with his own bullshit and, you know, wasn't really totally focused. I mean, almost, if I'm big facts. He went through a period of time where he was dealing with his own bullshit and wasn't really totally focused.

I mean, almost, if I'm not mistaken, almost died or something. He was in the hospital. Yes, he had a really bad infection. Bad infection? Yeah, real bad. So it took him out for a little minute. And then recovering from that was difficult, and then he had some personal life shit.

Big fact. But now he's back. He looks like the Jeff. When Jeff Neal fought Mike Perry, I was like, this motherfucker's a dark horse. Yeah, almost though. Because he's back. He looks like the Jeff. When Jeff Neal fought Mike Perry, I was like, this motherfucker's a dark horse. Oh, most of them. Because he's got timing, man. His timing.

When Jeff Neal's on, he's one of the best guys in the division. I can agree with that. And definitely what he did to Vicente Luque was masterful. And I was telling a lot of guys, watch out for that. Because just how Vicente Luque, he strikes. And he's a powerful guy. Don't get it twisted. A lot of knockouts.

But he just keeps his head straight up. Takes a lot of damage. Takes a lot of punishment. But if you got somebody that got decent footwork, good combinations that they put together, which Jeff Neal does have, you've seen like, I mean, just picked him apart. Just with boxing alone. And a lot of those guys with those Dutch styles, I feel like, man, they just be getting touched too much. It's a hard style.

It's a hard style. You know what I mean? I mean, you could deliver some bangers, but that's somebody standing right in front of you and Jeff Neal wasn't doing that for him yeah he masterfully moved around and picked his shots and that was big the division is wild like the all divisions are wild right now in the UFC but I feel like 170 in particular and I feel like the only thing that's missing from 170 is the personality part you know you got the Kobe Covington, and now we got, you know, Kevin Holland as a 170 fighter.

But a lot of these guys I don't feel like promote themselves. Even Vicente Luque, what is his nickname? The silent, you know, assassin. He don't talk much. He doesn't do anything. You know, Gilbert Burns is one of them, you know what I mean? Like, that don't really promote himself like that. Jeff Neal don't really promote himself like that, you know.

But they all talented, but you don't have a lot like that. Jeff Neal don't really promote himself like that. But they all talented but you don't have a lot of personality that goes within fighting that people want to actually attach themselves and want to watch you fight. And that's where

I feel like the 170 division is missing for real for me. Well, Masvidal. Masvidal's overrun. Yeah, but man, you know what I'm saying. Masvidal, what,

number 11 in the world now? Come on, bro. He eating, but I feel like Masvidal, even though he a personality, he a journeyman, man. I ain't trying. Like, come on, bro. Like, he eating. But, like, I feel like Masvidal, even though he a personality, like, he a journeyman, man. I ain't trying to be, you know, like, it is what it is. Masvidal still dangerous as fuck. Boy, I'll take that fight.

If I can get that fight, I'll love that fight. You might be able to get that fight. I mean, you think so, Joe? I might not. I mean, I'm on your show. You know what I'm saying? You win with Chris Curtis? That ain't no if.

I'm going to knock that fool out. Chris Curtis is a bad motherfucker. He is, bro. He is. That's a really good fight for you, too. It's a great fight for me. But you can't stand right in front of that man. So when he fought Phil Halls, right?

Yes. Phil Halls was beating his ass. You know, putting the jab on him. You know what I'm saying? Hit across, like, level changing, you know, on him. And that's the thing about Chris Curtis. He's able to just, you know, shrug off a couple little shots, you know what I mean? And just be patient and just wait.

But when Phil Halls got comfortable and just felt like he's just flowing, that's when he got caught. Boom. And took that one shot, and then it was over with. Chris Curtis is one of those never say die guys. You know what I'm saying? He's always there. He's always there.

But I love it stylistically with you because if your style of fighting, I'll tell you something. In your last fight, even though you lost, that third round, you showed why people love you. You came out guns blazing. Yeah, man. Well, I went into that fight with the wrong mentality. The same way I came out in the third, I should have came out in the first

and the second because I was hoping and I was praying because I was, you know, nitpicking on a lot of stuff, you know what I mean? I was just talking about where he's from, you know, being Russian, but now being a Frenchman. So, like, you ain't got a real home at the end of the day, and people love me more than you out here in Paris, and I'm getting more love, and they don't even know who you are. Like, just little things.

Like, I was talking about, like, eating up Nassadine cuisine. Like, just picking on him the whole time. But regardless, though, like, that first round, I was hoping that he was going to engage a little bit more but because of that size and because of that length that these guys have you know they will only fight me at bay you know which is smart family is intelligent right why try to expose yourself and then the pressure too hard where i can catch you you know but i was hoping that he would come in with a little bit more emotion you know but he didn't he kept poised he said you were fucking with him hoping that he would come in with a little bit more emotion you know but he didn't he kept poised he said you were fucking with him hoping that he would get out of character yeah exactly man but

you know he did his job you know but at the end of the day when uh coach said you know saying we definitely losing we had to pick that you know shit up in the third round i said say less so i was like willing to get knocked out in order to go knock him out yeah that's the only difference that third round you emptied the gas tank i had that was impressive i had to yeah i'm surprised he survived that knee you know i'm saying that crazy knee that hit on him man so that's why i'm thinking like bro maybe fighting at my more appropriate weight class you know it's like george saint pierre like you know uh moving up to 185 but he never stayed there because at the end of the day he already knew that these guys would be big even if he's better as a fighter these athletes are

just different now you know i mean uh and anything up whether they size length strength like these all play a part you know when you messing with them some of the best people in the world yeah most certainly I think 170 is a much better weight class for you yeah yeah and in every way and especially if you're really walking around at 181 sometimes I mean that so that's that's what I was I accidentally cut down cuz I was just chilling like you know and I was eating whatever I wanted in Paris what I was. I accidentally cut down because I was just chilling. And I was eating whatever I wanted in Paris. I was enjoying my whole time there. So I was eating before weigh-ins.

You know what I mean? Wow. Fighters can't say that. You know what I mean? That's nuts. I was at the restaurant. Restaurant. You know what I mean?

Just chilling. And my biggest thing is just like I'm not afraid to fight guys that's bigger. You know? thing is just like i'm not afraid to fight guys that's bigger you know i know that i'm giving up some type of you know um you know advantage for them because of the attributes and stuff but at the same time like my mentality is that that i'm willing to fight and brawl with anybody that that stands in front of me you know because when i started off with mma that's all i used to work with was bigger guys and sometimes i was like oh man i can actually take the advantage because i'm faster and my footwork is there.

You know what I mean? Or I'm just better skill set-wise, you know, because you already know, like, the heavier the weight class, you know, the less skills. Smaller weight class, the more skills. You know what I mean? Flyweight division got some of the best fighters in the world. Do you think that's the case in the, like, 170s and 185s?

Because I don't think that's the case. I mean, well, I mean, structurally when you see at 170, but even at 185 you still got a lot of guys that's not that good, but they're just powerful. You know what I mean? But I would just put a great example. You see a lot more strikers in the 185 division, but in

170, what do you see? More grapplers. And at the end of the day, in my humble opinion, MMA is still structured for grappling. It's still structured for jiu-j day, in my humble opinion, MMA is still structured for grappling. It's still structured for jiu-jitsu, wrestling, judo, all that other stuff because at the end of the day, you got to grab, you got to clinch. So I feel like the better grappler is always going to win in MMA. That's just my opinion.

Most of the time. Yeah, not every time, but like majority of the time. And Kamaru Usman. Yeah, that's barely. Come on now. Barely. Barely. Barely, yeah. But still, it barely doesn't mean anything when you win the world title by head kick knockout.

It's like Ben Askren versus Jorge Márcio, though. It's a great situation where a flying knee, you pop him with, but if they fought again, that probably would never happen. I think there's a bunch of factors there. First of all, you're dealing with a Ben Askren that, Ben Askren, this is all common knowledge now,

he had a fucked up hip by the time he got to the UFC. Big fact, big fact. He was already blown out. Came in too late. Yeah, he came in too late. But you've seen him with Douglas Lima, Andre, you know, like when he fought those guys, you know what I mean? And those are great MMA fighters.

Like Andre, I forget his last name. Kerskov. Kerskov. But he destroyed them. Yeah, ragdoll. With just wrestling alone Habib is a great example to me again

because shout out to Michael Johnson from St. Louis he actually went to the same high school too as well we got a little crazy story with that

but he was the only person that really hurt Habib because he had the actual opportunity to beat Habib but Habib said what

I'm going to take you down and keep you down so I feel like the majority of grapplers or the better grapplers are always going to beat Habib right but Habib said what I'm gonna take you down and keep you down so I feel like the majority of grapplers is always gonna or the better grappler is always gonna beat the better striker

I think it's the most important skill in MMA because the grappler has the ability to dictate whether the fight stays up or goes to the ground

that's why when a guy like Bo Nickel gets into the MMA world everybody's like oh shit because it's just such an accelerated

wrestler but at the same time, it still levels to it, right? Sure. Because Aaron Pico, I think is a great example because they rushed him too fast.

Because he actually fought a dude named Zach Freeman who's from Missouri as well. And experienced dudes. You know, Zach Freeman was like the most talented but hardworking dude.

You know what I mean? And he was a vet. So he had multiple fights in the game. And Aaron Pico, even though he's a what? Olympic wrestler or something like that and then you know golden gloves boxing all this stuff which is cool he didn't have the experience in the mma cage right which is a little bit different you know and i feel like if you don't develop these guys skills

and experience first they can get caught even though they got all the skill sets in the world they still just gonna get caught you know by somebody that's already been in that you know on that level did you see aaron's last fight where he blew out his shoulder well he blew out his shoulder no no i didn't yeah he had the same thing that happened with tj he dislocated his shoulder and then had to stop the fight he threw a left hook and it just popped out popped out so i'll be wondering like what these little injuries be coming from like that you know well some of these wrestlers their shoulders are so fucked by the time they get into mma they have all these tears and shit and they're kind of barely holding on and right right right right but i mean that's the things though because it might be happening like in

training so if it's happening in training like you got to do something about like to to keep it or prevent it from happening you know because he was staying active then right uh aaron pico yeah you know he was so here it is They're trying to pull it out Oh they in the In the corner doing it Yeah yeah yeah Look they were trying to pull it out Oh no I don't know

I don't There's like a technique To pulling someone's shoulder I know he's just No no no Ain't no technique to that He's just pulling that thing I don't think that's how it goes

He's trying to pull his arm off Yeah I don't think that's how it goes I think there's a way to do it I don't know I don't necessarily think this guy Is doing it correctly Maybe I'm wrong He's trying Isn't's a way to do it. I don't necessarily think this guy is doing it correctly. He trying.

He trying. Isn't there a way? Isn't there a way you're supposed to do it? I don't know. You can definitely look it up. He's got a weapon and Mel Gibson's slamming his shoulder in the wall. That's right. He's got a weapon.

That's not the right way to take this off. But it's a common thing where guys blow their shoulders out. Yeah. Have you had any surgeries or any major injuries? Yeah, the only time I had surgeries was when I got into the UFC. Yeah? Yeah, I had no injuries throughout the fight until I started fighting on the best promotion on the planet, which I'm fighting the best fighters.

What injuries did you get? ACL tear, a meniscus tear, some meniscus, as well as an orbital fracture in the Antonio Arroyo fight. Yeah? Yeah, that was bad because I was seeing two of him. And I was coming off a loss of Alessio, so that's who tore my meniscus when he had kicked me with that roundhouse kick because I was ducking, I was trying to box too much. You know, kicked me outside my head.

But the way I fell, I ended up tearing, you know what I'm saying, my meniscus. And then after that fight that I had with him, getting that surgery, I went into the fight with Antonio Arroyo. I won that fight, but he left a good little mark right underneath my eye, but I found out that he had broke my orbital. So did you have to get surgery on your orbital? Yeah, yeah. So they had to replace it with a little rod. Oh, wow.

So the base of my eye itself, it was gone, so my eye was just floating. So I could have had a lazy eye, you know what I'm saying? So it was like, yeah, we got to replace this, you know, so you can have that wall

back underneath that foundation almost. What does that feel, can you feel it when you touch your face? No, no, I can't. I mean,

yeah, I can feel it a little bit, like the soft part that you have here. So I can feel like right here where it's a little harder, you know? Oh,

wow. Yup. And they said if it was metal, then I couldn't be able to compete, so they put like a plastic one. And I was asking, like, is that going to affect it? Is it easy to break? And they was like, no, it's hard couldn't be able to compete. So they put like a plastic one. And I was asking, like, is that going to affect it?

Is it easy to break? And they was like, no, it's hard to reach type shit. So, yeah. Actually, it makes it a lot stronger because the bone is so, like, fragile. So if it was metal, you wouldn't be able to fight because it would open up with cuts or something? I don't know. That's what they said. Like, anything that's metal in your body, you won't be able to compete, you know.

I think that was coming from the UFC had hit him up and told him that. You know what I'm saying don't quote me but that's what I heard the doctor tell him you know maybe it's just in the face

when they do cause like did you see who's that dude who fought Canelo Billy Joe Saunders where he got his whole face caved in

cheekbone everything it was like up here here which one you think is worse that one or

the Sage Northcutt when he got his Sage was a bad one, here. Which one do you think is worse? That one or the Sage Northcutt? When he got his... Sage was a bad one. That was a bad one. And then you got... Who else got their face caved? And it's sad because it's multiples. Cyborg with MVP.

That was probably the worst ever. Right? The skull. Caved his forehead in. That's scary because this is supposed to be the hardest part of your hit. The hardest part where everybody breaks their hands. And they caved in like you got hit with a missile. Man, that was nasty.

That was the wildest flying knee. Michael Venn and Page is a bad motherfucker, dude. He's so wild. Yeah, yeah. I remember I went to fight him when I was in Bellator just to get my name out there for real, for real. But I just wanted to challenge myself against somebody like that because he had that style of traditional martial arts. Like a point fighting. Like a point fighting. Like a point fighting,

you know? But he was really knocking dudes out though. Oh my God. Look at it. That's his, the fracture. This is cyborg. Yeah.

Look at all the plates he has in his fucking head. Yeah. And that was it for him, man. Oh yeah. That's over with. Yeah.

He was, he said he was going to keep fighting after that. And the doctor was like, no. Unfortunately, you can't big fella. Yeah.

Let's see it. Play that again. Watch this. Here it is. this and like you could hear it too like if you could play something that's nasty when you hear the pop oh like you just heard break oh just heard cave in and a dude as tough as cyborg see him writhing in pain like that you would have seen me kicking my legs boy i would have been, like, out there swimming. Yeah, man. That was wild. And then look at MVP, like, the fucking Pokemon.

Like, he even caught Pikachu or something. Like, oh, that's crazy. He a showman for sure, but he got his ass whooped by Mike Perrido. Yeah, that was wild. And that bare-knuckle boxing. I was shocked. That's a whole different type of style of fight. Yeah.

You know, I'm sorry. Like, you know, you thinking because you got gloves on or you take the gloves off and, like, it's still going to be a type of fight. But, bro, like, that's style of fight. Yeah. You know, I'm sorry. Like, you know, you thinking because you got gloves on or you take the gloves off and like, it's still going to be a type of fight, but bro, like, that's bone on bone.

Yeah. You know what I mean? And like, that takes a different type of beast like to fight bare knuckle boxing. Well, Mike Perry's

designed for that shit. For that. Oh, yeah, he was made for that. Yeah, he was made for that shit. Big facts, man. Yeah.

I've always thought, like, it's kind of weird that the elbows aren't covered by a pad, your shins aren't covered by a pad, your foot's not covered by a pad, your heels not covered by a pad. And then you got to start thought, like, it's kind of weird that the elbows aren't covered by a pad, your shins aren't covered by a pad, your foot's not covered by a pad, your heel's not covered by a pad. And then you got to start right in front.

Like, they did it old school. Like, y'all got to start right in front of each other and just get the bang. You know what I mean? So, I mean, I like bare knuckle boxing. It's very interesting, but not for me. No. Definitely not for me, man. You don't have to come with a big check?

Nah. Nah, I mean, because it makes you. Hesitation. A little bit of hesitation. I mean, because I'm thinking about that check. You know, but at the same time,

though, it's just like, man, your health is everything. And people come out looking different with bare knuckle boxing. You know,

Pauly Malignaggi, you know what I'm saying, versus Artem. That shit was crazy. Paige Van Gant, like, you get rid of your money. You know what I'm saying?

Like, you a pretty ass girl. Like, you know what I'm saying? You don't need to be in bare knuckle boxing. Chris Lieben, he fought in bare-knuckle boxing. It looked like he got hit with a hatchet.

Yeah. His whole face was busted open. Nasty, man. And then you just get cut up because of the knuckles. You know what I mean? So you just got all these little splits down here. Yeah, I'm sorry, bro. It's just too much.

But do you think that it's, like, is there an argument for doing that at MMA for eliminating gloves? Like does it is there an argument for doing that at MMA to for eliminating gloves? Because if you don't have gloves if you don't have pads on your knees and your shins and your elbows and all the other Weapons that you hit people with why do you have pads on your knuckles? Well, that's good, but it's the break at a hand, you know, right but doesn't make it unrealistic to be able to just why I know They were trying to make it real this I thought they try making a sport It is a sport, but it's a sport of fighting. And if you have no padding on all these other areas. So let me show you King of the Streets.

This is real fighting right here. So it's K-O-T-S, King of the Streets. Who was fighting? No, no, I don't know the name of these fighters. I'm just about to show you this. Oh, okay. It's a promotion. It's a promotion.

This is real fighting at its element you know i mean because they fight outside they fight in a warehouse and uh as well um they don't have any bare knuckle like nothing this is king this is real fighting this is what ufc can't do this underground fight club yes so everybody got a face mask everything like that because they don't want to get exposed out here in just case murder get murder happen Is that a mat? Like, what are they fighting on? They're not fighting on a mat. That's concrete.

No. That's cement. Really? That is cement. Yes, sir. And they actually pretty popular right now. With sneakers on. Well, yeah, that's a real fight.

Wow. Sneakers on concrete. You're outside with it. But, bro, you get KO'd and you fall back. Oh, shit. And they got many. They got many KOs. Yeah. If you get body slammed on you fall back. Oh, shit. And they got many. They got many KOs. Yeah.

If you get body slammed on concrete, that is fucking bad. So one dude got rocked with a left hook, right? Fell down. And as he fell down, the dude kicked him right in his face. And, like, my man just seized out. Oh, my God. Now, this is brutal. But this is the closest thing that you get to a real fight because this is a real fight.

It's a real fight. And the only thing that's covered is they're wearing sneakers. Why are they wearing sneakers, though? I feel like you shouldn't wear First of all, you shouldn't be wearing running shoes. Oh, this dude is just getting piled right. So you take your shoes off, Joe, before a fight? Um, no. I wouldn't, but I wouldn't wear those.

I wouldn't wear those shoes. I would wear wrestling shoes. You wouldn't wear them Skechers, Downer, Medidas? I would wear wrestling shoes. Wrestling shoes are lighter. If you have cushioning under your sole, that cushioning is making you unstable. It's making you move.

If you have running shoes on and you're going side to side, you're not fully planted on the ground like you are if you have wrestling shoes on. Wrestling shoes would be the way to go. Big fans. But in a real scenario, you would never have wrestling shoes on. And then you ain't gonna pause and somebody be like, wait, wait, wait, let me put these wrestling shoes would be the way to go. Big fans. But in a real scenario, you would never have wrestling shoes on. And then you ain't going to pause and somebody will be like, hey, wait, wait, wait, let me put these wrestling shoes on.

Of course. Because I done been in street fights. I done known the element. I used to work security in St. Louis, and I worked security for like eight years, bro, two damn long. But the only reason why I worked security, man, because it was so fun. You know what I mean? Really?

There's so many different stories there. There's so many different things that's going on. And just being out there in that environment and just regular life, ain that's going on and just uh just being out there in that environment because like and just regular life like ain't nothing going on for real you know i'm saying just having a regular ass job you know and i'm fighting still and i'm just training but this is where like the fun part of it the nightlife you know i'm saying almost being like i said the john jones so i'm glad i didn't get signed earlier in my career because i would have had a bunch of little crazy stories to tell you know i'm saying no for real for real you know

what i mean so but luckily i was able to mature over time but regardless though like uh I didn't seen the street element where a lot of guys think because they train jiu-jitsu because they train boxing they train you know MMA that they gonna be good fighting in the streets but there ain't no rules bro right I didn't see any dude be calmly like oh man I don't want to fight you because you do and I got a beer in the hand and smash the head yeah immediately but they not even seeing like just, just the body language, right? You're not paying attention to certain stuff, you know? And I feel like a lot of guys that train the discipline,

which there's nothing wrong with training the discipline, but they use that alone to think that's going to save them. You know what I mean? You got to actually have the mentality that, like, you know, you are going to end a threat at any given moment by using anything that is necessary at that time, you know. And a lot of guys don't do that because I've seen guys on the floor thinking, like, it's a jiu-jitsu match, but it gets stomped out. Right.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's, like, different things like that, you know what I mean? So I feel like people be having the wrong idea when it comes to, like, jiu-jitsu, wrestling, MMA. Like, that ain't the core element of fighting itself. Well, if you're fighting like those guys are on concrete, that is a whole different ballgame. Especially with takedowns.

That's a real fight, though. And like I said, I never do nothing like that. That was for no amount of money. You know what I mean? I bet they're not getting paid very well either. No, not at all. They just going viral. That's it.

You know what I'm saying? They just going viral, you know? But besides that, though, but I do respect it because at the end of the day that is real fighting oh it's real yeah period especially on concrete

yeah big fact if you're on concrete and you're fighting a wrestler yeah you're in deep shit you're in deep shit well hold on I didn't see any wrestlers

getting knocked out though oh that happens too come on now it happens too cause they thinking they thinking just double leg yourself but dude pulling your hair that's true too

adding stuff to it like you, you know, head button. Right. If you're only a wrestler, yeah. Big facts, you know, because you thinking, like, your actual form of wrestling, trying to— You get in a wrestling stance, like, come on, man. Like, what did you do? But I didn't seen it before. Like, where people actually pick a stance, like, to get in, that's not real fighting.

Right. You don't even show that threat. You just make the move. Right. You know what I mean? And like I said, you eliminate the threat as fast as possible. you know what I mean and like I said you eliminate the threat as fast as possible you know what I mean

shout out to Detroit Dust you know what I'm saying Dale Brown but he speaks about it as well because it's just like you want to be in the most calm position as possible

if you amongst somebody that's trying to fight you you know what I mean now if you know this is about to go there like you shouldn't show that you want to fight them

you should actually like be more calm and be more whatever and then once they actually make that move that's when you counter whatever and hit whatever part of the body that you can't wear just always be aware always you know i'm saying always be alert do you find that now that you're known and you become like a famous fighter do people fuck with you now i ain't never been really fucked with, no. Like, for real, I ain't never just had no type of problems like that. But you're a nice guy, though.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's also part of the way you carry yourself. Yeah, I walk with respect everywhere I go, you know what I'm saying? So I never, like, be out of pocket,

never, you know, be out of line, you know what I mean? So I never add any situation where anybody would want to fight me, you know? But, you know, me working security,

I guess't had opportunities where i could have jacked up a lot of guys you know definitely when i was younger i was definitely effing up a lot of guys but that's not the security job to do you know you're supposed to de-escalate a lot of situations but you had a lot of guys that will you know you know try to press your patience right and i could pop on but i just keep it cool keep it calm and try you know try to get people out the smartest way possible like hey bro you know i'm? Let me holler at you outside real quick, you know? But then kick them out. Right.

You know what I'm saying? Like, act like I'm trying to have a conversation with you. And then, hey, man, let me see. You got something on your wristband? Break it off. And then they got to leave. You know what I'm saying? But you do have scenarios for myself, like when I was working security,

where guys will try to challenge you, you know what I mean? And try to buck up and stuff like that, where you do have to do something. But at the end of the day, don't nobody really try nothing because, you know, they lose. I'm undefeated in these streets. I'm glad you're out of that situation now. That's a dangerous game to play. I mean, and I've been playing it for a long time, you know,

and that's why I say, like, it ain't scary getting into that cage. That does play a factor. Guys have been in street fights in a lot of them. Yeah. It's calmer in the cage. Way more calmer, because it's the actual competition. You know what I'm saying? I got somebody right here on the side of me, which is called a referee,

that if anything does happen, he going to stop the fight. You know? You don't got that in the street element. You know what I mean? Because once you get knocked out, I done seen dudes where they get KO'd, and dude keep pummeling, boom, boom, boom. Oh, yeah. And not stopping.

Yeah. Like, bro, you going to do some life, bro. boom, boom. And not stopping. Yeah. Like, bro, you ain't brother. Like, bro, you going to do some life, bro. Like, you kill this dude, you know what I'm saying? And that's why people die. All the time, you know what I mean? And regardless, though, but those scenarios and dealing with that type of stuff, like I said, I feel like I'm at home when I'm in that octagon, you know?

Because this is where I feel like I'm free, and then I can express myself freely without actually being judged for doing what I'm doing. You know, so that's why I love, you know, fighting in the UFC right now. Now, when you look at your career going forward, you've got this Chris Curtis fight. You plan on winning that fight. And then you want to drop down to 170. No, I am. Point blank.

I was already I was I was already planning on moving down to 170. But what my manager told me, I ain't trying to, you know, put his stuff out there like that. You know, uh, I'm signing with sucker punch, uh, Brian Butler, but he was telling me I can get a better contract if I sign one more fight at 185. Okay. You know what I'm saying? So UFC offered you this fight. They want to make an exciting fight for this big card in Vegas.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big fight. Big fight. That's a great card. And they, and they love it. Right. You know what I mean? Uh, because it's not one fight that the UFC gave me that I did not.

I didn't take every fight. I was even supposed to fight Alex Pereira, fam. Really? Yes, sir. What was that? So I had to result out of a Hassan fight, right? We were supposed to fight the first card of the year in January. He's talking about his shoulder hurt.

You know what I'm saying? He did something to his shoulder, whatever. Blase, blase. So I was like, man, forget that, bro. I've been training hella hard. Just give me anybody. You know what I'm saying? So if it ain't Razak

Cause I'm not finna push that fight back I want to fight in January Whatever So he was like, alright, alright Brian was telling me Alright, let me call him back Whatever And let them know

And they came back with a name And he was so hesitant to tell me though This is the funny part, right? So he was like, wow, man You know, I don't really like this fight for you, man You know, he's not really well known But he's pretty good And I already said it before Before he said it I was like, Alex Pereira He said, how do you know? I don't really like this fight for you, man. You know, he's not really well-known, but he's pretty good.

And I already said it before he said it. I was like, Alex Pereira? He said, how do you know? And I just already assumed just with my style and who he is because I always make sure I pay attention to who's on the roster. I got to pay attention. Even Bo Nickel, you know what I'm saying? Like, even though he's not nowhere yet, that's still a name that people pay attention to

and people want to see him do well. So I pay attention to fighters like that. And knowing that Alex Pereira really only got signed because he beat Izzy, I was like, that's somebody to pay attention to. So when I was able to guess that name, he was like, yeah, that's the fight they want you to fight. Immediately I said yes to it. So he calls them back and he calls me back.

He was like, hey, I got some good news and I got some bad news. I was like, oh, what's up? He said, good news, you look great to the UFC that you taking this fight. You know what I mean? But bad news is they said they won't be ready in time and at first I was like oh man this dude being scary

but now it makes sense he ain't scary to cut the weight he got so much weight to cut he big as fuck so it wasn't that Alex Ferrell

wouldn't be able to take the fight because I think his coach or whoever his trainer is the one that declined because of the time frame wasn't messed up he needs time to cut weight you He needs time to cut weight.

I would have took the fight though because I already know that he has to cut a lot of weight. That dude's walking into the cage like 220. Easily. Easily, bro. You know what I'm saying? Because he's walking around 240. He's got so much power. What are your thoughts on that fight this weekend? Because that's a big fight.

My thoughts on it, bro, is way different from everybody else's you know i mean because people call me crazy all the time but i think it's gonna be like the same fight that we seen yoel and izzy with where you got two people just staring each other down you know not trying to make that move because you so you know they both had the capabilities of knocking each other out or francis and gano versus the derrick lewis you know i mean uh so and with everything the hype being behind this fight too you you know, Izzy is going to hopefully, like I said, if he don't apply his emotions into it like he hasn't done with every other fight, I feel like he's going to do enough to win. But I feel like Alex Pereira is not going to be able to apply that pressure on Izzy just because he won't have the energy to sustain that for five rounds.

Remember, this is a five round. Right. Because of the fact that he's cutting so much weight. Thank you. You know what I mean? And then plus, we don't see Alex Pereira move a lot anyway. this is a five round. Right. Because of the fact that he's cutting so much weight. Thank you. You know what I mean? And then plus, we don't see Alex Pereira move a lot anyway

in his fights. You only see him with Bruno Silva where he pushed him up against the cage a lot. And that was a good fight to watch. It was a very good fight

to watch. He got hit in that fight. Or got touched up real good. Bruno Silva's a very good striker. Man, big facts. I don't know what to say. But I get what you're saying. He got good power.

He's in your weight class. Yeah, I know. I'll be seeing guys and I'll be like, this is why they win in these fights. You know what I mean? So I get what you're saying. He got good power. He's in your weight class. Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah. I'll be seeing guys and I'll be like, this is why they winning these fights. You know what I mean? So I know that you're not a boxer. I know that you're not a kickboxer, not a heavy striker because he's more of a jiu-jitsu. He's more of a grappler. But Bruno Silva got good power.

Right. You know what I'm saying? So he able to wing some of the punches because a lot of times, like, Bruno Silva be getting his ass wet. Even Jordan Wright was touching him. Jordan Wright was touching Bruno Silva. But then, you know, Jordan Wright just got caught. He stood in front of him.

Yeah. He stood in front of him. Exactly, stood in front of him, got caught, and it don't take that much in the four-ounce gloves. And that's why this Pereira fight is so interesting, though, because Pereira has that ridiculous power. He just needs that one shot. He just needs that one shot. But the thing about Izzy, he is patient, and he would—well, we're not going to call it boring, but he would strategically break you down all night long for 25 minutes. If he got to touch that leg all day, he's going to touch it. If you ain't going to do nothing about it, if you're not going to answer back, that's what he's going to do.

But I feel like in my heart that Alex Pereira unfortunately doesn't have the actual ability to fight Izzy the way he needs to win. For five rounds. Because he's so big. Yeah, that's one of the reasons. But I just think between both of them, it he needs to win for five rounds. For five rounds. Because he's so big. Yeah, that's one of the reasons. But I just think between both of them, it's going to be a boring fight. It's not going to be as exciting as people think it might be. And that's the thing. Izzy needs that type of exciting fight right now.

Because the Jared Kananir fight. We can say Paul LaCosta, but that was so – how long? 2020? You know what I'm saying? So we've been expecting this from the champ because he's so pulverized outside the cage. You know, the French tips, the pearl necklace. You know what I mean? Doing all these little videos and dancing and all that.

Just showman stuff. But we want to see that showcase in the cage as well. You know? And that's my biggest thing. I'm impressed by Izzy. And I'm a fan of Izzy, first off. But I feel like if you don't bring the fight to him he's not gonna bring it to you that make sense?

yes I feel what you're saying so like he's willing to dance yeah yeah yeah big fact I mean people forget that there was quite a few fights

where Anderson Silva did the same thing he laid Talas Latis remember that fight? yes yes you know there was many fights where you know he laid back

and waited for guys to come at Anderson even better with Damian Mayer. Yes. You know what I'm saying? And I'm like, boy, Damian was mad about that one, you hear me? But at the same time, that's the way he won.

Yes. Because why would I engage with you knowing what you're trying to do? Right. You understand? Yeah. So like I said, with that being said, I'm not mad at Izzy because he's going to do whatever it takes to keep that belt. That's the money. Right.

You know? Alex Pereira wants that. But the thing is, though, I don't think his ability is going to beat her in order to take it away from him. You know? And they're just going to be standing right in front of him, and it's going to be a kickboxing bout. And they'll be like, oh, well, the other ones were kickboxing, but you already seen from Izzy. Well, I was a little bit more emotional in those other fights. And that's why I lost.

But then you see the strategic Izzy now. I don't see Alex Pereira beating him. Interesting. Very interesting. Yeah, take into account what you're saying about the five rounds and the weight cut. Because that is a big factor. That's a big factor. That's the hugest factor, yeah.

Because Alex is so big. But without the wrestling threat, because Izzy's not really a guy who takes anybody down. I'm about to say, yeah, who out there wrestling? Right. So everybody think, oh, Izzy going to turn into a wrestler. No, he ain't. No. You only fight the way you train.

Yeah. And not saying you don't work on that element of wrestling, but I don't see Izzy shooting a jab, shooting a cross, shooting a hook, and double leg. No. That's not going to happen. I mean, if it does, I'll be stunned. I'll be shocked. I'm sure he'll be stunned. I'll be shocked.

I'm sure he can do it. I'll be shocked. But the thing is, though, now you got to engage with, and that boy a sniper. Alex Pereira. Can we pull up that, if you don't mind? Please. Alex Pereira. With him shooting, like, you know what I'm saying?

Snipering with the arrows. Yeah, when he shot the soccer ball. Bro, man, that's crazy. Because my biggest thing is, though, like, Alex Pere Perez is the same type of beast, too, right? He's a trap. He waits all day, and once you expose yourself or you come close enough, he hits you. Like Sean Strickland.

Exactly. Yeah. Sean Strickland stood right in front of him. But it wasn't even just standing right in front of him. He was marching him down with his hands down. Well, yeah, he keeps his hands like... He has a very strange style. So here's him.

I ain't gonna lie, this was cold. It's pretty badass. This was cold, man. It's pretty badass. And it ain't one of those special little arrows either, like bow and arrows. It's one of them he just made in the house. Well, that's a recurve bow. He grabbed a stick and grabbed a string.

Yeah, that's a recurve bow. That's a much harder bow to shoot than what I shoot. I shoot a compound bow. Oh, man. That takes real skill. Look at him. That roar that he has is terrifying. I'm very excited about this fight, man.

I don't know what kind of preparation he's done in terms of getting himself lighter for a five-round fight and making sure that the cut is not as bad. I don't know, but he looks shredded already. Yeah, he looks shredded, man. And he look like he killing himself to make that weight. That's all I'm going to say. He certainly is losing a lot of weight to make that weight. Yeah, he killing himself to get to that weight.

But he's done it many, many times. But you see Izzy doing all this press, doing all this stuff. Now, to be honest with you, I'd be like, it's a positive thing. But at the same time, I ain't never seen him do this much work before or preparation for a fight

where it comes to selling. You mean press? Yeah, press. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but they make you do that. I mean, this is mass, this is Square Garden. But this is the most I've ever seen.

I pay attention to these fighters all the time because they're in the weight class, right? I want to beat these guys, right? I want to take their belt, right? So I pay close attention to what they do all the time, and especially Izzy

because he's a champ, you know know so besides it just being ESPN plus you know he got his own YouTube channel and everything like that and I mean like I feel like he didn't amped it up even more and there's nothing wrong with it that's either showing me that you have a lot of confidence you know about yourself and you able to take this fight and when say not so serious but not as serious because you doing other stuff on top of this right

Alex Pereira is only focusing on training and fighting right now there ain't no press for him for real for real

you know what I mean so he's taking it into initiative I'm talking about Izzy to promote this fight as best as he can so you also

taking away from your training at the end of the day right so that's but I feel like he think he's good enough to do what he's gonna do

in order to take uh take time away from his training but isn't that just what the ufc obligates him to do because he's not with everything the fight he has pay-per-view points not with everything but he has pay-per-view points i feel you but i feel like he also is the only one that speaks english alex doesn't speak yeah true true so that makes it difficult yeah but i feel like a lot of stuff he's been doing on his own as well. Doing extra stuff, you know? Which I don't mind it because you got to promote the fight. You got to do whatever you got to do in order to get people to buy in.

And to be honest with you, it's not that hard of a buy-in because even with Alex Pereira not being able to speak English, he's the only person that beat him. Only person that knocked him out. You know what I'm saying? So that's an easy sell on itself. So my thing is why is Alex Pereira trying so hard you know me like this is the one that if I wasn't MMA head and I was just like whatever just watching this stuff I'm like okay that'd be interesting to watch dude that already knocked him out this dude is undefeated MMA but still could be a close fight I

watch it you know but Izzy's is going about his way and like I said I don't know what's going on in his head like I said I don't know what's going on in his head but I feel like he's not trying to think about the fight itself even though it is the press conference and all this other stuff he's trying to get himself more calm right he want to be around more people I forget who it's another fighter that talked about that and the reason why he always stayed you know in the press and interviews because it it took him away from the fight mmm you know they all want to be in interviews because it took them away from the fight. You know, they always wanted to be in the light.

I forget what. I know what you're saying. So, like, the more you do other stuff, you could just have fun and it loosens you up and talk to people. Exactly. And you ain't got to actually focus on the actual mission itself. You know, you just go to the mission, you know. So, I don't know. It's two ways to go about it, you know.

And I feel like if Izzy goes out, like I said, emotional, he will get caught. So I feel like he needs to keep doing it. Even when he play around, I might just kick his leg and just jab him the whole fight. Do that. Even with him joking, do that. Because at the same time, that's how you've been winning your fights this whole time. A lot of them. The thing about Pajero is he's there to get hit.

He can be hit. He fights with his hands down. You said it right. A mahogany tree. He is that. He's made out of wood, dude. You better not run into him, though. Yeah.

You understand? Yeah. He's built different, man. He's so dense. Yeah, big fact. I mean, just the way he hit guys with that left hook, right? And this is the crazy part. It's not just him knocking them out, but they all fall the same.

Yeah. They fall like they just shut off. Like they got shot. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, I ain't never seen that before. Like, I see, like, even with Mike Tyson, when he knock out guys, at least they fall, whatever, like, in different type of ways. But, like you said, it's like he almost killing these guys.

Yeah. It's like a straight, you know, blank shot to there. Boom. That left hook is. And then, like, they whole body just shuts down. Like, the LFA knockout that he did. Oh, my goodness. I don't know who the dude he knocked out

find that fight yeah I mean he's a motherfucker with that left hook but he's a motherfucker with everything you know when he knocked out Jason Willness

you know hit him with a head kick and a flying knee he ain't had that many fights but hold on did you see his loss though which one he only had one

in kickboxing no no no oh my bad in MMA in MMA yeah he got submitted correct he got submitted yeah yeah but it was uh so have you seen it though yeah i did i saw it a while ago so it's hard to find i have found it one time and that's why it gave me a lot of confidence like to fight

buddy right just seeing the fight that he had against dude and trust me dude was taking a lot of punishment don't get it twisted dude was tough as hell you know but just seeing how that guy was able to persevere through that, right, and still clinch up against Alex Pereira and wear him out and make him tired and get him to the ground and then eventually end up submitting him. I was like, bro, I'm going to put that dog work on you. That's the type of style that I bring. I don't care who I'm fighting.

I'm still going to bring that style. I don't care who you is. You know what I mean? So all I need to do is see that and like, oh, you ain't got that great of conditioning. And it's not that you don't work out hard or you don't care who you is you know i mean so all i need to do is see that like oh you ain't got that great of conditioning and it's not that you don't work out harder you don't train hard you cutting all this weight to get there your body ain't never gonna be a hundred percent i also think that was very early in his approach to mma and that was also key but like six months later he was in the ufc but it was also before he's fighting glover or training with glover i think that made a big factor in both Glover and his career.

Might have, but he's still fighting the same way to me, right? Like I said, I look at the last loss like even with, not even the loss with Izzy, but like with the fight with Kevin Gadsden where he got touched the most, you know? And that's the fight that you lose. So here's, this is, what is this? This is his kickboxing loss? Yeah. No, he is this? This is kickboxing lost? Yeah. No, he lost a few times in kickboxing.

He got liver hooked. Yeah, I didn't see this one. Oh, that's a good kickboxing fight. Yeah. Yeah, he got caught with a left hook. But I think Izzy beat Homeboy right there, though. Left hook, leg kicks. He's lost before.

Yeah, of course. But again, this is Alex early in his career. But this is kickboxing, though, man. Yeah. And this is what I'm trying to say. If I fought Alex Pereira, I'm putting the singlet onboxing though, man. Yeah. And this is what I'm trying to say. Like, if I fought Alex Pereira, I'm putting the singlet on. Mm-hmm.

You know? Right. Like, I'm not going to play with you. Like, you know, I'm going to take the fight where I feel like I have more advantages at. Yeah.

He lost his last kickboxing fight in glory. A very, very close decision to, I forget the gentleman's name, but this Russian cat who's a... No, no, no, no. Not need now.

Boy, that was nasty. That was insane. That was... Ah! That was nasty. I'll give him that. But like I said, yet again, dude standing right in front of him. Yes.

Dude standing right in front. He's setting up that trap, you know? Yes. Yeah, he set up the trap. Look, look, look. Boom! Not only that, Izzy called that. He was actually in the dressing room, and he called that fight.

And that's Bruno Silva. Yeah, that's Bruno Silva. And Bruno Silva was getting his ass whipped by Jordan Wright. And I feel for Jordan Wright, man. You know, he just got that little 50K though for a fight of the night. But he's just a one-round fighter, though. I feel like.

Well, he fights wild. Yeah, big fight. Jordan fights wild. So this is the Bruno Silva fight, which is the only fight that he went in the UFC to decision. But you see Bruno, Bruno hit him with some shots.

Bruno clinched with him here. Bro, putting that dog fight, putting the dog fight on him. But Al Ferreira, so he a dog too, though. You see him? Oh, yeah. Still coming back.

Boom. But he got him pressed up against the cage, though. Look, he don't move his feet, though. He's standing right in front of you. And Bruno survived. We have to put that out. I mean, and guys have finished Bruno. Yeah, yeah.

But he survived against Pereira. But again. I mean, the bell saved him a little bit. Bell saved him a little bit. But again, you fight a guy like him. Like, if. Look, look, look, look, look. In this fight, even though he walked out of it with a decision, that took something away from Bruno.

When you get a beating like this against a guy like Pajero, you know, that's also how I feel about Francis Ngannou's first fight with Stipe. Stipe won that fight, but man, he took a lot of punishment. Oh, we're talking about Stipe? Yeah, a lot of punishment. And I don't think you're the same after that. There's certain fights where fighters fight. That was the Sean Strickland one. Sean Strickland was almost like tailor-made for him.

Walking forward. Hold on. So this is what I wanted to say, too, because the reason why they need Alex Pereira is because there's nobody that's going to be able to— well, not nobody, because I could have done it. But regardless, it's three walls that's saving Izzy, right? You know what those three walls is? Robert Whitaker, Marvin Vittori, and Jared Kennedy. If you were a fighter, matter of fact, Nash the Dean, right?

I lost to him. If he's trying to work his way up into fighting for a belt, you got to fight one of those guys. Right. If you can't beat those guys, you're not going to fight. Right. Alex Pereira, did he fight any one of those guys I mentioned? No. But I feel like Alex Pereira would get exposed if he fought any three beat those guys. You're not going to fight. Right. Alex Pereira, did he fight any one of those guys I mentioned? No.

But I feel like Alex Pereira would get exposed if he fought any three of those guys. Well, I think that's one of the reasons why they fast-tracked him to the title, because of the fact that it's hyped up. Yeah. It's a big fight. It's all about money. But yeah, I think Marvin Vittori is a very tough fight for him. Marvin Vittori, Robert Whitaker, and Jerry Kennedy.

Yes. All three. But Vittori in particular, really good at takedowns. Big fucking guy. Big as well. Big as fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You see that guy, you're like, how the fuck is that 185 pounds?

I mean, shoot, Paul Acosta. Actually, that's one of the best fights I've seen in a minute between him, Marv Vittori, and Paul Acosta. Yes. Because they both fought at their natural weight. Right. You understand what I'm saying? They didn't cut any weight.

They didn't cut any weight. Because at first, I gave that same prediction at first. I was like, bro, if these guys fight in that 185, it's going to be the slowest dragged out fight because both of them are going to be depleted. But instead, Paul Acosta didn't come in, cut him weight. He was like, oh, I don't want to cut weight, man. I don't want to be, what?

He said 205 or something like that. He was like, no, forget that. I don't want to fight at 205, man. I don't want to be heavyweight. Because my man came in down there like a heavyweight. I don't care what nobody say. So even though they made That 205 light

Light heavyweight Weight together They were both just Walking around You know what I'm saying Comfortable One of the craziest Aspects of MMA

The day before A cage fight You're supposed to Dehydrate yourself Dehydrate yourself To the point of death Yeah yeah It's wild ain't it

It's wild Yeah Doesn't make any sense And I'm trying to go back To it with my crazy ass But my thing is though Is just understanding they just keep getting bigger. Yeah. They keep getting bigger because you can do it.

You know? And my biggest thing is, like, I'm not scared, but it's just I got to be smart. Right. You know? And, you know, being able to fight these guys, you know, I got to realize, like, I got to be safe in the first and second round. Yes. You know?

That's why I didn't mind, like, winning the main event because I feel like I could definitely put that pressure, had a condition, and go 25 minutes on the, that's why I didn't mind, like, winning the main event because I feel like I could definitely put that pressure, had a condition, and go 25 minutes on the guys that's in middleweight, right? Yeah. So we can fight a little bit smarter, but only having three rounds, I can only do so much. Right.

Right. And that's what happened in the National Stadium fight. Yes. I done ran out of time. Yes. So I played myself, you know? But, yeah, these guys, man, like,

it's just crazy just to see the development of 185. So a lot of these guys that's going up into the rankings and stuff like that, if you're not fighting those three guys right there and you don't beat them you're not gonna fight the belt so now that Alex Pereira was able to skip over the head like he was a knight like you playing the chess was able to skip over those three pawns and now he's getting the king you know what I'm saying so hey that's lucky him you know I ain't even mad at it because we want to see something that's different in my eyes, I just don't see it because I don't believe Alex Pereira has the skill set necessary

to fight the type of style that we need to see Izzy against. And what type of style do you think that is? Aggressive, grappler, forward pressure, good hands. Kevin Gaston, right? Even though Kevin Gaston lost, right? Another style like that, a softball. I don't believe that's the only softball they default, I believe, Izzy. Well, Yoel. Yoel's a softball. I don't believe that's the only softball that he fought, I believe, Izzy. Well, Yoel.

Yoel's a softball, too. Oh, Yoel. But Yoel didn't do nothing. He didn't do much. Yoel was been perfect, but he just stood like this. Yoel might be 60 years old. We don't even know how old he is. Didn't he win like a lawsuit or something?

Like, didn't he get paid? Like, I don't know. Like, somebody was talking about that. A supplement. It was a supplement, like a tainted whatever. Like, he got a bag from that. Yeah, something happened. I don't know like somebody was talking about that a supplement it was a supplement like retain it whatever like he got a bag from that

yeah something happened I don't know how much he got but he just won his last fight in Bellator he did who you win against um

oh no no actually I think I probably might know Melvin Manoff yes oh yeah and I hate that because Melvin Manoff

was one of the guys I looked up to oh my god Melvin in his prime that was the pure sapper. That was the Mike Tyson of kickboxing. 100%.

Come on, now. 100%. But just seeing guys that get... With those gladiator shorts. You come out with those gladiator shorts. Shredded.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Come on. We're in the leash. To the death. He come out to the death. I mean, that dude fought like a fucking demon. Yeah, man. He was so good as a kickboxer. dude fought like a fucking demon. Yeah, man.

He was so good as a kickboxer. Guy knocked out Mark Hunt. Yeah, I know. How about Mark Hunt knocking out that undefeated fighter at 48 years old? You see that shit? First of all, Mark Hunt still fighting. Still fighting. Won.

He won his last fight. And he won, too, huh? Yeah. Hey, shout out. He fought this undefeated boxer and knocked him out. He was like a huge underdog and wound up knocking him out. That's wild to me. At 48 years old.

But my thing is, yo, why you think that is, though? Like, not why he knocked him out, but why you think these guys continue to fight like this at this age? Well, I think Mark Hunt is born for it, first of all. He loves it. He's been around forever. I mean, Mark Hunt was the K-1 Grand Prix champion. You know, fought in Pride, in the glory days of Pride. Fought in UFC

in the glory days of the heavyweight division and still slinging leather at 48 years old. Massive respect. With all that being said and done, you think you'd be done. I don't know, man. What more do you have to prove and show and do? Like Anderson Silva, man, that broke my heart done. I don't know, man. You know? Like, what more do you have to prove and show and do?

Like, Anderson Silva, man, that broke my heart when you lost to Jake Paul, bro. And, like, you got this little kid, bro, like, you know, and he's doing his thing, right? You see that he's an athlete. You see that he's working on his style of fighting, you know what I mean, when it comes to boxing. But at the end of the day, it's still he picking at every MMA hit, right? And he's fighting Tyron willie ben asher now anderson silver and then guess who he said probably gonna be next right jake paul no um uh andrew tate oh actually they just posted they just faced they just faced off but the name that the name that he

was talking about was diaz though yes at first at first well the diaz fight is a big name and a big money fight but he's a lot bigger. He's a lot bigger than Nate. But that's the point. Yeah. He wants as many advantage. He is doing it smart, but at the same time, he's embarrassing all of us. Like, for real.

And it's sad because he's saying all these different things, and he's talking about having these real conversations that need to be had, but it's coming from him. He means about money. You already know, but it's not a conversation for him to have. But it is. It is because it helps him get attention. And it helps fighters take his point. I love what he's doing. I hate it.

I hate it. I want to be the devil. I'm sure you do. But you're a fighter. And I'm going to get a check for it, too. Yes. But it's not because I'm just a fighter, because he's telling us that we're not even brave enough to fight for ourselves.

So I'm going to fight for y'all while I'm knocking out y'all legends in the process of it. You know what I'm just a fighter because he's telling us that we're not even brave enough to fight for ourselves. So I'm going to fight for y'all while I'm knocking out y'all legends in the process of it. You know what I'm saying? Well, what he's doing is very intelligent. Oh, no. It's smart. The promotion's off the chart. He's hilarious. He's brash.

And he's winning. And he's winning. But it's who he's winning against, though. Yeah, but Anderson Silva, you've got to say, that's the most impressive fight that he won you gotta say Anderson Silva is a legend maybe he's 47 years old but that's the thing I had Jake Paul to win I knew Jake Paul was gonna win just because of the age itself you know me and then uh on top of that I didn't see Jake Paul knocking out Anderson either though you understand I just knew it would be competitive uh enough for Jake to take it. You know what I'm saying? Take the win.

But at the same time, it's just like, bro, if you fought Anderson when he was in his prime, you getting knocked out. Right. Well, most certainly in an MMA fight. Not even most certainly in an MMA fight. Anderson used to box boxes, bro. And that's the thing, too, I hate about MMA dudes, like, since we on here.

Like, a lot of these dudes be like, I'll box Canelo or I'll box, you know what I'm saying, Mayweather and all this stuff, but never getting the actual ring and just train and spar

with actual real boxers from, like, whatever little, the neighborhood. You know what I'm saying? Like, I used to actually box with the guys from the neighborhood and page their boxing. Like, Josh Temple, you know? Von Alexander Vaughn Alexander's brother, you know.

Like, I had to actually work with actual boxers to realize, oh, this is a different type of game. Yes. You know? But when you're just boxing with the guys that's in the MMA room and you're thinking, like, because you're touching them that you're pretty decent, you're going to find out if you actually get in with a real boxer before you actually compete with them that yeah You you don't know what you're doing You know because it's certain little combination in this certain like cases that we do as MMA fighters that will get us knocked out From a boxer, you know, have you thought about competing as a boss? But the thing is though

It's so diluted because the whole perception of in May guys want to box is because of money Because I would never just get into it for money My biggest thing is i would actually commit myself to the sport of boxing i would get me a boxing coach like when uh even george saint pierre like i feel like he could have been pretty decent you know had a great jab in mma but you see he was working with who freddie roach right you know right and uh anderson silver also found a boxing coach i i figured who he was working with as well, but you could see him that he was trained in that art of boxing, and he could actually compete in the actual ring back in the day. So you would need a timeline. You would need—

Yeah, definitely need a timeline. How much time do you think you would need? Well, since I've already been working with boxers for a minute, and I got a great boxing coach at STL Boxing, Reggie Thomas, shout out to him, I probably only need like two, three years to actually find me a profile, you know, and actually work up my- But that's a realistic assessment. I'm glad you said that.

Two, three years is correct. Oh, yes, sir. Yeah. You can't just hop into it. Right. A year time ain't just going to work for you. Right, right, right. And then I'm not just going to call out the best in the world, you know, pound for pound.

I'm going to work my way up. Right. I'm going to get some knockouts. I'm going to get some good little names. I'm going to get some knockouts. I'm going to get some good little names. I'm going to get some prospects. And then once y'all see I got a resume now, now let's see what them names talking about. Now, when you're talking about your future,

how many more fights do you have on your UFC contract? Oh, man, man, I'm going to keep that on. How many do I have on my contract right now? Yeah. I just signed. I just signed, so I still got four, I guess. So the CC is the new fight on the contract. So I still got four, I guess. So DeCeci is the new fight on the contract. So I got a four-fight contract.

When you get over those four fights, have you seriously considered possibly fighting him? I know exactly what my plan is. What is your plan? I can't give out the plan now. Tell me later. Yeah, I'll tell you later. I won't tell anybody. Yeah, all right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't tell you the plan now. But you do have a master plan. I got a master plan, baby. It's beautiful, too. Yeah. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

So we working on it. So ideally, when you move to 170, do you have a name in mind? Oh, man. Yes, sir. So my opinion. First off, you already shouted out one of Masvidal. I didn't even think about him. Masvidal.

I didn't even think about him, right? But for Masvidal, he's looking for the top. Exactly. So it'd be a waste of time. He'd be a waste of time. So a about him, right? But for Masvidal, he's looking for the top of the... Exactly. So it'd be a waste of time. He'd be a waste of time. So a real fight, right? So we just talked about it. And even though he a killer and I love him, right?

And just as a fan of MMA, Shavkat, right? And he already got a fight booked with Jeff Neal. I feel like if somebody falls out in that fight, I would love either one of those guys. If somebody falls out, you know what I mean? Right. Because both matchups between me and Jeff Neal, we kind of fight similarly, right? So it'd be a test of skills right there. And Shaka,

we just don't know about him yet. We're going to find out how good Shaka is when he fights Jeff Neal, if he does or if he fights me. We'll really see how good he is. When is that fight supposed to be taking place? I have no clue. I just know they booked it. Is that a fight night fight? Yes. Ooh, I might go to the Apex for that. Is to be taking place? I have no clue. I just know they booked it. January 23rd, I think. Oh, okay. Is that a fight night fight? Yes.

Ooh, I might go to the Apex for that. Is that the Apex? Yeah, I believe so. Dude, I love going to the Apex. Yeah, big fan. I went to the Apex recently. I watched Song Yudong and Corey Anderson. No, you might have said it.

No, no, no. Corey Sandhang. Corey Sandhang. I got you. i got you i got sorry cory anderson shout out to cory anderson he's killing it in bellator um but sandhagen and song you don't was a wild fight and to be there live with like very few people in the crowd and right that apex is something special man i you know i hated the fact that fighters had to fight there during the pandemic but i love being there i think for me right now, like even shout out to my man, Charles Johnson. He got a fight coming up.

You remember Charles. Yes. And OG, he finally in the UFC. You know what I mean? Dangerous flyweight. Big facts, man. Big flyweight. So we got another fight November 19th in Vegas.

But I feel like it's just a good start for a lot of guys in the UFC. You know what I mean? Sure. Get their feet wet in the apex. You know what I mean? Sure. Get their feet wet in the Apex. You know what I mean? Because the lights ain't so bright. It's not like a whole arena and stuff. You still get an audience.

You still get a little feel for it. But I feel like that's where guys need to start off at. You know what I mean? At the Apex. And then work their way up to a bigger venue type stuff. No, I would agree with that. I think the Apex is a good start off for a lot of guys. A location for this one, yeah.

Okay. Does not have a location. It might not be the Apex. Kelvin versus Nassim Dean is a very good fight. That's a very good fight. But I think Kelvin Gaslam could have been a world champion at 170. I really do. He just likes eating.

He likes eating too much. Look at that. Shafkat versus Jeff Neal is good. That's a good fight. That's the thing though. I know how talented Jeff Neal is So we gonna really see How good Shaq Scott is And Carlos Hernandez And Nacimento

Is a great fight too I ain't gonna lie to you I don't know who those is I don't know who they is Hernandez is the guy That submitted Fuck is his name That fucking gigantic

Jiu Jitsu guy Oh my god Is that Fluffy? Fluffy Hernandez? Yes Okay okay I know his real name Okay yeah that's Okay But who is he fighting inuffy? Yes. Fluffy Hernandez? Okay, okay. I know his real name. Okay, that's good.

Okay. But who is he fighting then? So who is Fluffy fighting? Who is it again? Nascimento. Nascimento. He's a very good fighter too. That's a good fight.

It's one of them underrated fights. Yeah, there it is. Who is that? Oh, no. Stop playing. He's good. How dare you? How dare I what?

He's a good fighter. All right. Okay, 19, 19, 16. Oh, 13. Oh, so he's good how dare you how dare i what he's a good fighter all right 13 okay 19 19 6 oh 13 oh so you uh submission arts yeah he's a brazilian cat he's very good man okay he's very good that's a good fight i'm excited about that fight oh no no okay so this is 125 so fluffy ain't the right dude i'm talking about that's 125 that's 125 oh so that's a different carlson and his, it is. Okay. I don't recognize it because I pay attention to my weight class. Fluffy Hernandez is not Carlos Hernandez.

This is his name. Yeah, I don't know. Google Fluffy Hernandez. But you're right about it because he submitted the dude that, I mean. Anthony is his first name. Yeah, Anthony. Sorry, Anthony. Who did he?

He just won recently as well. And you know what's funny about this, though? They called it the Kevin Holland effect, right? Because Anthony Hernandez and myself lost to Kevin Holland, right? Rodolfo Vieira. That's who he beat. That was the big fight. That was huge.

Yeah, yeah. Well, not a lot of people. And he beat Berrio in his last fight, too. Whoever bet on him to win by submission got some good money. Crazy money. Yeah, big fan. Because that is unheard of, the fact that he did that. He was able to submit one of the greatest jiu-jitsu guys to ever compete in MMA.

Big fan. That's another guy that's enormous for that weight class. Oh, big fan. If you're standing next to Vero, you're like, how the fuck are you making 85? It's crazy. He's so big. So on top of just talking about that, right, so a lot of people on the internet, man, they be going crazy, man. But they was like, it's the Kevin Holland effect because Anthony Hernandez also lost to Kevin Holland.

And then I lost, right? Yes. So when I came back, I did my crazy kick after losing to him. Right. After he came back, he did his crazy, like, you know, submission on, you know what I'm saying? Didn't nobody expect it. So he was like, man, hey, it might be a good thing to lose to Kevin Holland, man. You might have your crazy little next fight. Because my name blew up after that. And then his name blew up. Right. You know what I'm saying? Then nobody expected it. So he was like, man, hey, it might be a good thing to lose to Kevin Hollen, man. You might have your crazy little next fight.

Because my name blew up after that. And then his name blew up. Right. You know what I mean? And it was all just like, so it's just crazy how the internet just be going wild like that. It is interesting how one big moment can just like catapult your career. Yeah. Right?

Well, I feel like it's only in MMA, brother. Right. You know? Because like you see a Marshall Dahl you see a Diaz you know what I mean of course they didn't took losses but all they needed

was a couple wins a couple good finishes bro and their name was you know what I'm saying massive you know at the end of the day you know

well that's also why you fight the way you fight to get those big moments yeah true story because you're you're like one of the

most fan friendly styles that's in the sport well it's just the people I used to watch who I used to love watching so I just imitated them man like I said so Melvin Man well it's just the people i used to watch who i used to love watching so i just imitated them man like i said so melvin manoff was one of my favorite fighters bro to watch rampage jackson man with his personality outside the you know ufc and stuff and uh you know a lot of these guys that you know i used to be a fan of those are the people that i

emulated my style after and i just meshed my own type of style into it. Melvin, man. Jesus Christ. Melvin in his prime. Yeah, man. It was so fun to watch. But without a doubt, one of the most all-time scariest fighters. Pure savage, man. And my man was only, what, five, what, eight, five, seven? Yeah, he wasn't big. And he was fighting like Tyrone Spong.

Like, who else did he fight? The Gohan, Goku dude. What's his name? Yeah, Gokun Saki. Yeah. Yeah, you know whatu, what's his name? Yeah, Go Kansaki. Yeah, you know what I mean? He fought fucking Mark Hunt. He fought Mark Hunt in MMA. And knocked Mark Hunt out.

In the first round, quick. Mark Hunt tried to come at them real quick. He's like, no, forget that, sit down. He was so fast. Melvin in his prime was so fast. And so savage. Those kicks were just insane. Yeah, bro, a whole different level, man.

Yeah. Well, he was one of those guys out of Mike's gym, those do-or-die guys, you know? Big fat. Just like Badr Hari. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever they're doing in that gym, man,

they are creating monsters. I don't even know if it's the gym, but the people that they bring in. Mm-hmm. You know? Like, the type of lifestyle that you live and your upbringing is the biggest thing and that's what makes

for a great fighter. You know what I'm saying? And like, you know, I don't know much of Melvin Manoff, you know, past anything like that,

but they were just talking about how he just come from humble beginnings and everything like that and how life was hard. You know what I mean? And I believe we was talking about Francis Ngannou,

you know, in the back, whatever, but we was just talking about, you know, how great of a fighter he is because of all the things

that he had went through, you know? And when you see him walk around it and the way he carries himself you could just tell like can't nothing phase right can't nothing hurt him right just a fearless fighter you know what i'm saying but it was all because of what he experienced in his life that led to like i said so making fighting real easy now did you hear the story that he told on this podcast of course crazy it's wild crazy that's a movie type stuff you know what i mean like come on bro you know and just to believe like to keep going through that right now like he did he and that's the thing too like he could have risked dying to go like you know what i'm saying

through that journey you know i did risk dying i know but multiple times eight times he got arrested you know what i'm saying back to the desert right and he's like i'm gonna keep going until i get there yeah like come on now that's perseverance right there that's real perseverance yeah bro so You know what I'm saying Sent back to the desert Right Which is crazy And I'm gonna keep going Keep going Until I get there Yeah Like come on now That's perseverance right there That's real perseverance Yeah bro so Yeah

That right there alone Like I said You can use those As examples That people actually go through To not stop doing What you're doing Cause I almost gave up

On dream On some bullshit You know what I mean Like So Like back in the past Like when I used to have a gym At Finney's MMA

That's where I started. That's where I developed my skills a little bit, you know. But the promoter himself, me and him, like, we was real close, you know. It was almost like on a father and son relationship type thing, you know. And at the end of the day, you know, I was never looking at it as business, you know. He was always booking me up for fights and always, you know, putting me out there on like a main event or the main card and stuff like that. And people would come and watch me fight. And I would be cool to do it because I just wanted to fight, you know.

That's all I wanted to do. I had no other intentions, not even making money. I just wanted to compete. And that was it. And, you know, not saying he's using me, but he's using me. You know what I'm saying? Technically, because he's making money. He's making good money.

So he wasn't thinking about your overall career. Hell no. He wanted to keep me stuck in St. Louis. But I didn't know no better anyway. Right. So my thing is I didn't want to reach out and find different other places to fight because I'm like, shit, I'm getting fights here because he's a promoter. So at the end of the day, once I started to grow as a fighter and stuff like that, I ended up getting a Bellator fight.

I only got, like, a one-fight contract deal when Bellator came to St. Louis. So they'll do stuff like this, right? Bellator comes to St. Louis, and they assign, like, the local fighters on the prelim, right? You get a one-fight contract deal, but you would just fight the dudes that you would have fought on the local promotion, you know, anyway, but now you just fight them on the Bellator show. But I ended up showing out for Bellator, end up going crazy. I fought, uh, I know his name, I know his name.

Uh, damn, bro, that's sad, bro. You know, I be forgetting my man's name sometimes, man, but I think his name like Chris something. Anyways, I end up beating him. Beating him in the second round. This is when I first met Big John McCarthy, right? So this is the first time Like a big promotion A big name referee

Actually like referee in my fight So end up beating dude You know, end up getting signed To Bellator later on But before I had signed to Bellator I looked for Jesse for advice I was like, hey man Should I read over this contract?

He was like, just sign it Like don't even worry about it Like this is the best contract You will ever see in your life Just sign the contract, right? So I ended up signing the contract, doing whatever, you know what I mean? Ended up taking my first loss in Israel, whatever. Once I took my first loss, they kind of held me back for a minute.

You know, I got a KO loss against Jackie Ross, but, like, it took, like, seven months, eight months before I could even get back into actually competing, whatever. But I was already ready. I was like, bro, I can fight again. Like, I'm good, you know. Because sometimes they'll put that restriction on you for you not to fight for a certain amount of time. After KO.

But I was already cleared. I'm like, hey, I'm ready to fight again. So I end up getting another fight. And this was with Justin Patterson, I believe his name is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So once I fought him, whatever, I had to string another fight, string a layoff, another. It was another, like, eight, seven months again.

So with me, I'm getting paid, but I'm not really making no real money. And all I'm doing is training. All I'm doing is fighting. I'm not doing nothing else. All I'm doing is just focusing on that, you know. So I'm really kind of just living off of these checks, you know. And I'm not being smart about it because all I'm doing is just like, all right, this fighting thing, this is what's going to work out.

So they end up giving me pretty much four fights. So I end up fighting Vinicius De Jesus, and they end up fighting Logan Storley, whatever. So I only had four fights within like a two-year period. So I went one year and two the other year. You know what I'm saying? Not enough. Not enough fights. I wasn't even close. No. Not to eat. No. two-year period so i went to one year to the other you know i'm saying so not enough not enough i wasn't even close no you need not to eat no and also to stay active exactly right so but my thing on top of that just going into the story while i almost you know i'm saying just gave up on it but

you know i was like damn man i kind of just like lost out on a lot of experience you know i mean because like i was uh 22 when I got signed. I was 24 then. So I'm just like, damn, I could have had a bunch more fights than what I had. So Bellator ended up cutting me, though, right? Ended up letting me go. So with all this being said, me and the promoter, whatever, we was bumping heads on a lot of things because I was like, bro,

I want to learn more. I want to do more. You know what I'm saying? But I feel like I'm being held back. You know what I'm saying? So he would never really communicate with me what was really going on, you know? And the thing is, the only thing, like, my man was just using me for, like, the potential to get more clients in the gym because they would use my name like, hey, we got a Bellator fighter here. He's a trainer here and all this other stuff. And they would use that to sell, like, for, like, you know, more people just to sign up for the gym you know and it

is what it is but I just didn't like that you know so how'd you get out of that I just love I was like man forget this gym you know me I literally just like man forget everything because once I got cut from Bella tour you know I mean I just like man that's some bullshit cuz like this is the highest level of you know I'm saying promotion Now I got to go right back into fighting on Shamrock. That's some bullshit, right? So I left the gym and I did my own thing. But the thing is, well, I had no connections.

I had no network, like, you know what I'm saying, as in people to reach out to. So when I was dealing with Jesse, he provided all them things for me. The gym, the information for instructions, and also the promotion for the fight, you know? So those are the main things that I need, and I didn't have it at that point, you know? So I had to hop from gym to gym and try to find me another spot.

But every gym that I found, man, was kind of whack. You know what I mean? I was like, bro, these ain't the ones I want to be at, you know? Because just, like, the instruction wasn't there, or they wasn't able to find me fights. It'd be, like, multiple little reasons. So I was like, man, I want to just at, you know, because just like the instruction wasn't there or they weren't able to find me fights. It'd be like multiple little reasons. So I was like, man, I want to just start doing this on my own. So I started hitting YouTube like crazy, you know, and I started just watching and just

being a student of the actual craft and the actual sport itself. Like what were you watching on YouTube? Thousands of things, man. I mean, it got to the point where it was so crazy. I was watching Wing Chun Bro Like so Master Wu I don't know if you know him Master Wong

I think his name is He does like a lot of Self defense Moves You know what I mean Online But he does funny Instructional videos

But I used to watch him All the time I watched Shane Fasson I don't know if you know Who that is You know but Actually if you can look him up Like so he

Fight tips Whatever And he shows like All different things But these are the things That was like the foundation Of me learning that is no you know but uh actually if you can look him up like so he uh fight tips whatever and he shows like all different things but these are the things that was like the foundation to me learning chain fasten yeah fashion i don't know how to really spell his last name f-a-a-z-e-n or something um and you got it jamie's got it and his so his youtube channel is just literally just by fight stuff oh yeah all instructional stuff like this so this is where i started off with so that's just his uh instagram but it's his youtube got like millions of followers on it though you know interesting and so his whole thing is just just instructionals big facts right

oh muay thai rock paper scissors theory oh okay so he's one of those dudes just breaking shit man you got countless stuff on there but you know and i'm and i'm not So he's one of those dudes that's breaking shit down constantly. You got countless stuff on there. And I'm not saying he's the best instructor at all, but when you're talking about you just need more knowledge, you need more information. These are the type of videos that I was watching. It's amazing how many of those there are out there. It's so good.

For a young fighter, it's such a good time to learn. There's so much knowledge out there. There's so much data. And there's so many people out there there's so much data and there's so many people like him that are obsessed with communicating that knowledge exactly and then he was you know he used to work with uh not work with but like he had for us a hobby on there you know i mean breaking stuff down with him and stuff like that so then i got to see different like real coaches and how to yeah so this other guy yeah master wong right here so like this was like the street

fighting element and all this other stuff and Master Wong Right here So this was like The street fighting element And all this other stuff And different techniques But Because I didn't know Some of these guys Be sometimes low key Like

Full of it right What is he telling you to do there I'm curious What is he telling you to do there Guys grabbing him What's the move You have to turn it up a little bit It's not go very much

My head Headbutt me It's not gonna go very far either Second thing you learn How understand, that on the floor. He passes him. Okay, this is the problem. Somebody come along and try to get your hand both into Canada and try to smack you in the face. You might be beat them up.

You might be do something naughty. I got no idea. This is the question. Somebody asking me. If somebody grab you in the collar and pick you up, what short thing do you do? My man can be a stand-up comedian. I ain't going to lie to you. He's got that interesting combination of like an Asian accent with an English accent. I think he'd be capping though, you know. Well, he's being entertaining.

Exactly. And that's what it is at the end of the day. So this is mostly like street fighting stuff? Yeah, self-defense stuff, like just quick ways

to like end a fight, you know? Instead of like hitting combinations, I want to, one strike, you know what I mean, end a fight type thing.

But regardless though. So you go from that to just watching YouTube videos, training yourself. Did you have people that you were training with and sparring? Yeah, yeah.

So I was just working with the guys that I was working with at Finney's. So my close friend, the one that you just met, he's like a brother to me. So we used to wrestle together in Marquette, you know, and I actually got him into MMA, you know. And the thing is, he's been watching, like, the UFC, you know what I mean, for the longest time. But, like, the actual training of it, he ended up coming to finish MMA only because of me.

So we ended up training with each other, and like I said, once I split ways with them, I was working with him the whole time. So things that I would watch, things that I would see on YouTube, I was like, hey, bro, let's practice this. Let's do this. And I actually got good at holding mitts, just because I wanted to see a lot of things and just work a lot of things that he couldn't perform, like, actually hold for me. So I had to hold it for him, you know, to actually get it down just a little bit. And to be honest with you, like I said, that got to show me a lot of different, just creative ways to throw your hands, creative ways to throw combinations. Like, you don't have to throw it like a box. You don't have to throw it like a kickbox.

Like, you can add those fun, traditional moves in there with the fundamental basics, you know. And that's what we was doing. We just having fun and just doing that. But the thing is, though, I wasn't able to find any fights while I was doing this type of stuff. How much time was going on here between you leaving the gym? So I got cut in 2018. That's when I left the gym in 2018. And then I was able to get a fight in 2019. It was only a year's time, but I felt like I got played with the two years that in 2016 to 2018, I felt like I got played, you know what I mean, and not having that many fights.

And I was still struggling as a fighter. And I was with Bellator, and I was still struggling low-key. You know what I'm saying? So I felt like I wasted a good amount of time You know I'm saying within that game, but I didn't know when I was gonna be able to fight again That was the problem, you know, so even though it was only like shit Well, it was kind of close to two years But it was still like just a year and some change that I was able to find another fight

It still felt like it was so stretched out because I didn't see when I was gonna be able to find another fight So you were really considering quitting? Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, actually, I wasn't considering it. I actually did it. So I went about the part of just training, but I just gave up on actually, like, hunting the dream down. I just got a regular job, you know what I mean?

I was taking care of my grandmother at the time, like, which that was a big deal as well. I had moved in with her because I didn't have no house. I didn't have anything to my name. Unfortunately, my grandmother was stricken with ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease. You know what I mean? And that's a rough one. I have a friend going through that right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm sorry to hear that. But it's a neuron disease where it shuts down all your motor functions. And it kills the muscles where it puts you in paralysis almost. And that's what I was dealing with the whole time as well, too. So a lot on my mind outside of that. So I was like, man, I can't be focused on trying to chase a dream when I got to help my grandmother wash up and eat and all this other type of stuff, you know. So, yeah, I had to go through that first. Right.

And once I went through that, it's funny how once I kept training and kept motivated with just my friends around me even Mariah Beck that's one of the kids that uh trained with me at Finney's MMA but anytime I called him up he'll work with me RIP to my man Ryan Sutton uh he was one of the guys that came out with me in my first uh UFC fight uh but he passed away but that's another person I looked to and called uh in order to get some training in but it was just a small group of guys that I would call up to just ask to get some work in and these guys are the people that I depended on in order to get some training in. But it was just a small group of guys that I would call up to just ask to get some work in. And these guys are the people that I depended on in order to, my mental, just to hit pads outside in Forest Park in St. Louis, you know.

And this whole time I've been doing that and I just stopped chasing after the whole goal of getting a fight. And then one day a guy named Mike Rogers hit me up because I was, you know, coming in at his gym, not in and out, just just coming there just to get some spawn working you know I mean but not actually like learning thing but just some spawn work and he told me like hey man LFA hit me up I was like off really he's like yeah man like if you want to I can give you a number whatever and then you can contact the matchmaker yourself because he didn't want to do the in-between talk

for me like he didn't want to be like a management cuz I had no manager I had nothing at the time so he told me about lfa and i ended up getting a fight with lfa uh against chris harris but the funny thing about that that little setup was that i only took the fight because i needed some money some extra money that was it but the way the only reason why i took the fight as well, because I couldn't find any other fight, it was welterweight. So I had to fight at middleweight at 185. And they tried to tell me it was a catchweight. I was like, what's the weight?

I was like, is it 175 or 180? They was like, no, 185. I was like, man, that's a whole weight class. So when they told me that, whatever, I watched the dude. I did my own film study on Chris Harrison. I was like, all right, I'll take it. It's easy money. I need the bread anyway.

And funny enough, that's why I stayed at 185. That was the only reason why I moved up. Because didn't nobody want to fight me at 170. It was a wait that whole time. So I took that fight, got that fight, but I didn't worry about it. Once I won that fight and got that little check that I got from LFA, I was back to work doing what I was doing, just chilling. And then a year later later I still get another call

this is 2020 now uh from LFA to fight Gregory Rodriguez I don't know if you know who that is Robocop yeah he the one that got his uh split whatever he's a bad motherfucker yeah yeah but I but I need that bread at the time too so uh I took that fight with him it was going to be for a LFA title and uh you and unfortunately he had pulled out the fight so they had to find me another fighter and like I said, funny enough, me not even chasing anything but people just coming to me now

I was able to get these fights. When did you wind up at the new gym? That wasn't until the kick. Really? Yeah, I didn't have no team. I just had the people I told you I was working with. So even the Kevin Holland fight, no team?

The guy that passed away, R.I.P. Ryan Sutton, he the one that helped corner me in that fight. But he was just a teammate. He was going through stuff in his own life as well. So you were just kind of on your own training yourself? Yeah. Wow. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

I didn't have no— Fighting at a world-class level, on your own, training yourself in the UFC against top guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. So just to even be able to get there the way we got there is crazy in itself. Because like I said, I only took those LFA fights because I needed a little bit of money. But I wasn't like, all right, I'm going to be in the UFC one day or I'm working towards to be a UFC champion. I just was like, I need money or just for my mental health i kept training now but i

want you to speak to the difference in the structure like once you got to this new gym and all this structure that you're praising and all the way that your new trainer trains you in the new environment how much different is that and how much of an impact does that have on your career i think the biggest part of it was just uh the commitment that they had to me you know that i never got from that other gym like so all the information that i had to find on my own they had information for me you know so i was actually learning you know so instead of trying to like figure out the information on my own i already had people that was already great at what they did and they were showing me stuff you know and now i'm able to learn a little faster and more efficiently if that makes sense that is so incredible that you were fighting on a world

class level with no coaching nah I mean yeah well I did have world-class coaches because you got to just imagine like the people that I've been watching for like influences as instructors on YouTube like I said even from yourself bro like even if you don't call yourself a coach like that sidekick I only knew how to throw a sidekick because I watched your video which is hilarious but it's the truth you know and um I wish I was around to show you in real life it's better all right big facts you know I mean but even though you showed you with like the internet and everything and YouTube you showed a thousand if not a million people that kick you know but it's about people actually taking that information and applying it to their own life if they want to, you know?

And that's why I like Bruce Lee so much because, like, that's why, you know, Jeet Kune Do is such an awesome style because it was his own style. It was his own form of fighting that he took and that he mastered, but he took it from other places. And he did it back when that was taboo. Big facts, you know what I mean?

That was very taboo. Even when I was doing Taekwondo, you weren't supposed to do other things. You were supposed to only concentrate on the art that you did. Big facts, you know what I mean? That was very taboo. Even when I was doing Taekwondo, you weren't supposed to do other things. You were supposed to only concentrate on the art that you did. Big facts. And Bruce Lee was like, that's not smart. Not at all. Because your style of fighting should be like a fingerprint.

You should have your own style. It shouldn't be like a person, when you look at them, you're like, oh, they're doing MMA, in my opinion. Oh, they're doing kickboxing. Oh, that's a wrestler. It's a mixed martial arts. You should be trying to pick the pieces in the puzzle, like what oh, they doing kick, MMA in my opinion. Oh, they doing kickboxing. Oh, that's a wrestler. Like, it's a mixed martial arts. Like, you should be trying to pick the pieces in the puzzle, like what they actually doing. Well, you mostly see that now. A little bit.

Yeah, I understand. You see very few real specialists now that are only doing one thing. You still do though, low key. I mean, we getting there, but I still haven't seen that actual, like, for real, on some boy good. Like I said, man, I'm from, like, you know what I mean, watching a lot of movies and stuff. But, like, you know, one of those complete fighters, you know, watching a lot of uh movies and stuff but like you know one of those complete fighters you know except for like a uh dimitris you know i mean or uh gsp you know there ain't a lot of those out there though in my opinion well i think you're seeing more of them now than ever before but we have to also take into consideration that

mma in terms of real sports is relatively recent yeah there's no no sport like MMA where if you go and watch the fighters from 1993 and watch them from 2022, they're completely different. Yeah, completely, because the athlete changes, though. Yes. You know? So that's why I would say that, but I feel like, yet again, so like Habib, perfect example, you know, he retired. He was only winning one type of weight.

Right. You know? He's a real specialist. Yeah, he's a real specialist. But, you know. But, man, good at that fucking special. Jesus Christ, he was so good. A lot of people can't stop it, you know.

But I'm just trying to think, like, good, like, people that they fight a certain type of style, which is great for them, and it fits their weight. But, like, Hamza, I wouldn't call him, like, a complete fighter. I feel like he's just great at what he does. And if he's able to fight another grappler, he's able to switch it up to a striking prowess. But even then, Gilbert Burns was touching him. Yes.

Because I would say the Merchart fight, but like he only got one punch out of that, you know, but you can't call him no great striker because he was able to land that one punch. Right. But when I seen that he fought Gilbert and he started to stand with him, I'm like, oh, you're not a great striker. Because Gilbert Burns is not no great striker because he was able to land that one punch. Right. But when I seen that he fought Gilbert and he started to stand with him, I'm like, oh, you're not a great striker. Because Gilbert Burns is not a great striker, but he was able to land I don't know how many punches on Hamzat in that fight.

Gilbert's a wild man. Gilbert's a wild man. Yeah, yeah. I feel you. Wild man is – you can be a wild man all you want to, but at the end of the day it still takes technique in the striking room. Oh, he's got technique too, but it's just one of those things where I think Hamzat tried to walk him down.

And, you know, you want to engage like that with Gilbert, you're going to get caught. And, like, I'm not disrespecting these guys when I say, but they good at what they good at.

You know? That's all I'm trying to say. Like, Gilbert Burns is a monster, but you see when Hamzat had took him down and Gilbert Burns threw up them legs a couple times. Hamzat didn't like that.

He's like, let's stay on the feet for a minute. Right. You know? And then I realized, Hamza ain't good at striking because he just stands right there.

And also, as a matter of fact, I shouldn't even say it because I could potentially fight this man one day. But one thing that he does that is terrible, he only hits on one side.

He favors one side too much as a striker. And we watch it all the time. Now, you can take it back and watch Hamza fight, but when you watch it, you be like, oh, that's what he all the time. Now, you can take it back and watch Hanzo fight, but when you watch it, you be like, oh, that's what he's talking about. Right hands.

All day. Right hands, right feet, you know. Uppercut all day, and he favors it. No setup. Everything just with power and intention to knock you out, which is great and all, but you still putting yourself in a position to get hurt. Were you stunned by that Kevin Holland fight with him? No, no, no.

I wasn't stunned because I knew Hans out was going to immediately try to shoot. And Kevin is not like no real, real wrestler. He worked with DC and he said he worked with Johnny Hendricks and all this stuff. It takes years. I come from a wrestling background. I was a trash-ass wrestler in high school. It took me years to kind of understand what wrestling is, and I'm still trying to figure it out.

But I know I'm a better wrestler than the majority of guys that's at the 185 division, some of them. But now I'm going to have to focus on grappling even more because I'm going to a grapple-heavy division, which is at 170. You have Hamza, Kobe Covington. Kamaru. Kamaru Usman. You know what I'm saying?

These guys are grapple heavy. So if I'm able to get up to that level and be able to compete with them, just stuff the shot. I know that they can compete with me on the feet. Yeah. When you think about your transition from being self-coached to now being on your own team, it's like you have so much potential right now.

So much potential to get even so much better. This is all I get to focus on now. Even with my grandmother, her daughter, my auntie, came back to live with her, to take care of her because I wouldn't be able to be in the UFC if I had to keep taking care of my grandma. like that like low-key like people don't understand like that's a 24-hour thing yeah you understand and um uh it was sad because I had to leave my grandmother in the bed you know in order to go to work to Walgreens but I had to have a close job and I had to keep a monitor to watch her to make sure that she was fine you know and everything

that she needed I had to leave the job you know and i had to work overnights at walgreens in order to make sure i check up on her throughout the day so i had to work the night shift you know i mean so when she slept i was working and then you know what i'm saying so just little things like that you know that um it was hard to actually maintain the actual career as a fighter you understand i when i was a kid when i was 24 i lived with my grandmother for a while my grandmother and my grandfather my grandmother had a stroke You understand? is that life is short and that you got to appreciate your health and your ability to do things now and appreciate it in a way where Knowing my grandmother when I was young when she was this this wild lady Yeah, and then seeing it my grandmother went to jail for for running numbers for the mom. Okay. Wow my grandmother She they tried to get her to give up names and she's like fuck that I'm going to jail

So we were always like, where's grandma? Oh, she's visiting her auntie. They lied to us. And meanwhile, grandma was in jail for running numbers. It was kind of crazy. So to see her when I was older, when I was 20, in my 20s, that sick and inability to move and pain all the time it was like damn you gotta do something with your life I don't know that's 100%

short window and even with my grandmother going through that she still had great spirit what's sad about ALS the first thing that went was her voice her voice became faint she wasn't able to speak you know and all these other things uh but she's still able to smile

you know and it's sad that about this disease that can even take that that can take that away as well but she's still able to smile and still able to you know laugh about you know certain things and you know that's one thing about my grandma that her spirit is so um has such an impact that it can affect you you know because she don't look down on herself because she was stricken with this terrible disease you understand like even with uh it stands for amy amy trophic uh lateral scoliosis it's the actual name she even changed the acronym where uh als is stands for abundanceundance of Love and Support. Wow.

Because that's what you need in order to defeat something like this. And I had that with her because she lost her daughter, which was my mother. I lost her at a young age, and my grandmother took me in. And I didn't have my dad around in my life, so she was the one that was taking care of me the whole time. So when it came to my turn, I couldn't have my dad around in my life, so she was the one that was taking care of me the whole time. So when it came to my turn, right, I couldn't hesitate. So I was willing to give up everything in order to take care of my grandmother. That's beautiful. You know what I'm saying?

I mean, it just had to be that way. That speaks to your character. Yeah, yeah. But regardless, though, I wouldn't even be around, you know what I'm saying, if she was never around in the first place. You understand? Yeah. But I understand what you're saying. That really shows me anything that I really even go through ain't really that hard

right ain't that hard you know what i'm saying like we good we can get through it you know so um having her go through this type of experience and being able to see what she goes through but how she's still able to hold her head high is beautiful that is beautiful and now you know and i feel like every fighter is not just their skills, but an accumulation of their life experiences that give them character. And that most certainly gave you character. I guess, you know what I mean? Like I said, man, my granny took the responsibility up when nobody else wanted it. You know, like I said, I was, you know, with my mom and stuff, being a single mom, she raised me. So I was with her all the time. Every single day I was with my mom, you know what I mean?

And if I wasn't with her, I was with my godmother, you know? So I was around a lot of women at the time. And like I told you before, like the male influences, the only thing I got was from TV and watching, you know, movies all the time. You know, so having that, you know, and doing what I was doing, you know, it's just crazy that, you know, once my mother had passed away, unfortunately some of the people that was in my life before left too. You know what I'm saying?

So, like, the people I used to always see or hang out around that was around my mom a lot, when she passed away, you know what I'm saying, it's like they passed away with her, you know, type stuff. So my granny was the only person that really took the responsibility of raising me and taking forth that because I went through, like, a depressing stage. Like, you know what I mean?

I was never, like, what's the word? Like, never seen a therapist or nothing. But, like, I felt like I went through a depressing stage after I lost my mom. And it took me a while to even, like, speak to people, you know? It ain't like I turned mute or nothing. But it took me a while to even just be around other people because I was just so upset, you know, that the person that I was around all the time was just completely gone. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Just out of nowhere in my eyes, you know, and it took a minute for me to just like accept the fact that she was gone, you know, and I won't even say get over it. But like I just said, you know, I just I'm just forgot about my mom ever existing to get over the whole fact that she was going in the first place yeah I didn't I didn't go to her like her like her burial nothing I just like yeah I couldn't take it you know I'm saying so I just like man maybe if I just forget about it you know I'm saying it'd be cool whatever but on top of that you know just understanding like that life is short like you were saying before like it's good just to go for your dreams and stuff like that.

Because I ain't trying to bounce into too much stuff. But before my granny even had ALS and stuff and I was still in high school, she was raising me the whole time. I was kind of a bad kid, in and out the house, doing what I wanted to do. And I wasn't bad, like, robbing people or trying to, like, gangbang or nothing like that, but I wanted to do what I wanted to do, you know? And being raised by so many women, like, you feel like you the man the whole time, you know?

So eventually my grandmother ended up asking for my father's help in order to come back into my life and stuff like that and try to raise me, you know what I mean, or help raise me. And I'm, like, 16 at the time, you know what I'm saying, 15 at the time. And this is I'm saying, 15 at the time. And this is my first time really even meeting this man.

Wow. You know? So once I, you know, having an interaction with him, like, I was trying to tell my girl, like, bro, I don't need to stay with him.

I'll just leave. I'll just, like, you know, live on my own. You know what I'm saying? I don't run away type shit. Right. You know what I mean? But, you know,

my dad was like, yeah, you being disrespectful, you, you know, acting out of pocket and stuff like that. I was like, yeah, even if I is, what you gonna do about mean but you know my dad was like yeah you being all disrespectful you acting out of pocket and stuff like that I was like yeah even if I is what you gonna do about it you know

and that's where we had a whole situation a whole scenario so the only reason why this is crazy right is that you know I find out where my fighting power

comes from you know what I'm saying it's from my pops cause my pops used to wrestle as well back in the day so when I used to wrestle in high school

I thought I was somebody special so when i got into it with my dad whatever and we was in the kitchen and stuff like that you know i thought i had the upper hand because you know i'm saying i'm wrestling and whatnot and i remember i had through a punch he blocked he hit me dead in my chest right i'm like oh caved me in i ended up wrestling him i was like all right i wrestle i'm gonna go ahead take a shot on as soon as i took a shot on because that was the only thing i was good at was a double leg right, I wrestle. I'm going to go ahead and take a shot on him. As soon as I took a shot on him, because that was the only thing I was good at, was a double leg, right? That man power drive me.

He grabbed my hip like this, picks me up, boom, slams me. He's like, you ready to get back in the car? You know what I'm saying? You ready to get in the car? I was like, oh, yeah, I'm good, bro. I ain't trying to fight you no more. You know what I mean? But the reason why I bring that up is because I realize I'm almost just like this dude.

You know, I never met him. You know what I'm saying? Just that fighter mentality, that fighter will, that's where I get that from. It's crazy that even then, at that time, I never gave him a chance, unfortunately. Without me giving him a chance and not getting to actually know him,

I ended up losing him as well. I ended up losing my mom and my dad, but the thing is, I never even got a chance to even try to talk to him and get to know him because I never actually went about the opportunity to talk to him and speak to him. Because he was almost like a big brother to me because we were both living with my grandpa, which is his dad. So I felt like it was more like a big brother relationship between me and him. And when I lost him and I didn't get the opportunity to actually experience him

like I should have, you know, by the time I won it that he was already gone, you know? But, I mean, going as a teenager and just meeting him for the first time, you can't put that on you. I mean, you didn't have... No, yeah, no, no, no. Yeah, I was like, because I ain't been to call this man Daddy or nothing, you know?

That's hard. That's so hard. No, big fact, man. Did I was like, because I ain't been to call this man daddy or nothing, you know? That's hard. That's so hard. No, big fact, man. Did you call him by his first name? Yeah, yeah. So I called him Marcus. Wow. Yeah, yeah.

That's weird enough as it is, right? I mean, not at all, because it's Hanu. Right, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like Marcus. Like that, you know, everybody used to call him Jug, too. That was his nickname and stuff like that. So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, like I said, once, but that's the crazy part then. Like, once, just growing up around him, like, for, and it was only, like, a year time too. It was only about, like, a year where we was able to, like,

actually be in the same household and actually speak to one another. But everything that he used to do, I'd be like, it's certain things that I did as well that I was always wondering where I get it from, you know? And I got it exactly from him.

Like, we moved the same, we talked the same, we walked the same, and I was like, this is my first time really, like, meeting this man. That had to be weird. Yeah, it was a little weird, though. I ain't gonna lie. I ain't gonna lie, you know. But it made sense, though, you know, where it came from. Yeah, completely.

Yeah, yeah. Well, all those things are, that's a part of character. That's a part of what makes you who you are. I mean, I think people that come from an easy life have a very difficult time making in the world of fighting yeah yeah yeah it's it's very it's not the same i mean people have done it you know the people that come from good households and good families yeah bj penn well george st pierre i mean george st pierre was bullied when he was young and that's what got him into martial arts, but he had a very good relationship with his parents.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But having a rough childhood is almost like a prerequisite to being a great fighter. So many fighters come from, like, dark times. Yeah, big fights. I mean, like I said, like, your experiences alone can prepare you for fights, you know what I mean? And that's what makes some of the best fighters in the world, you know? But I feel like with everything that I went through, I guess you could say it prepared me for fighting.

But it really showed me, and this is what I'm trying to get to, you know, and I ain't trying to, like, put all this shit together. But, like, losing my mom and losing my dad just showed me, bro, like, just go for it. You know what I'm saying? Just, like, go for your dreams, man. Go and do what you want to do. You know what I mean? Because at the end of the day, we only got one life. Like, my mom died at a pretty young age. age like was like 35 36 you know i mean dad died

pretty young you know saying almost getting to the age of 40. you know um um no no what's she no well how did your dad die uh overdose oh yeah yeah overdose um heroin overdose, unfortunately. But I feel like he was trying to use that to block the pain or the stuff that he was dealing with. Of course. You know? Yeah, of course. Unfortunately.

So many people are dealing with so much. I mean, that's this fucking crazy dance of life. And your dance is very crazy. And that makes sense now, knowing your childhood, why you're so ferocious inside the octagon. I didn't even think about it like that. I didn't even think about it like that. Think about the life experiences that you've had.

I mean, it is a major factor in what forms a man's personality. And what you've gone through, those trials and tribulations, you can't substitute that. Somebody either has that or they don't substitute that yeah yeah somebody that has that or they don't there's a fire that some dudes have and you have it i appreciate a lot of that comes from just bad times yeah yeah and and also man it's just like when i see that right when my mom passed and when my dad passes it's like you know the only people that know that are the people that's closest to us right you know i'm saying and my thing was like i just always wanted to leave my name here

and print it somehow, some way, in some type of fashion, you know? Because it's a fun little quote, you know what I mean, that I like. I don't know who said it, but it was like, you know, you die twice, you know what I mean?

The first time you die is when you, you know, take your last breath, and the second time you die is when they say your name for the last time. And that always spoke volumes to me because I was like, man, I want my name to be remembered some way, you know.

And that was my real pursuit for real, for real, doing like MMA and chasing my dream. Leave your mark. Leave my mark. Yeah. Some way. Well, you definitely have that opportunity. I mean, you've already left your mark, but you have an opportunity. You're only 28, right?

Yeah, only 28. You have a giant future ahead of you because we work especially knowing your background now like and knowing how little real formal training you've had and the fact that you've reached this level of proficiency and skill and accomplishment it's pretty crazy i mean you're in a really great spot right now especially now dropping down to 170 pounds, which is your natural weight class, where you're not going to be at a disadvantage physically, like in the Nordean fight.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, I mean, but I think everything plays a part, you know what I mean? And everything happens for a reason. So I'm glad I fought at 185. I'm glad I was able to develop my name, you know what I'm saying, in the middleweight division and stuff like that, because it's not going to make it harder to go down to 170 and fight a couple other, you know, rank good names instead of starting all the way back

over well you know fight guys like imamov who's like what is his natural weight i mean what is he walking i don't know he probably 215 yeah much much bigger yeah and that's what i mean is i mean he's like he's an elite level fighter that way too yeah so you have i thought i mean be honest with you when i look at my resume at uh 185 I ain't fighting no bones. No, I ain't fighting no bones. No. So I fought a lot of, uh, you know, high level guys at middleweight and I did a successful job. You know, I took a couple of L's here and there, but you know, I was able to accomplish, you know, get five wins, uh, up to four knockouts within the middleweight division, you know, and I think that should speak volumes for me to go to a weight class that's more fitted for me much yeah much better much better for you and also with this

structured training and the fact that you really do have relatively little in comparison the amount of time you've been fighting yeah yeah i mean well i've been fighting for a long time yeah you know for 10 years but i just didn't know nothing right but, but that's what's so crazy. It's like you accomplished a lot with that. And now having very structured training and being in your physical prime and going down to a natural weight class. I mean, once you get past Chris Curtis, if you get past Chris Curtis. You know, it's just that one mentality in me. Like, you know, it's like this is all the preparation that I've been putting in and doing and just taking the time and opportunity to actually promote the fight for myself.

You know what I mean? Coming out here with you and speaking to you, you know what I mean, to sell this fight, even that, you know, I just developed too much time and effort into this fight to lose. I can't, you know, because everything that I want on the other side is riding up to this fight it ain't like the national team fight like this the fight right here right you know what i mean so the last fight that i got uh uh now on my contract but of the year because this would be my fourth fight that i had you know saying within one year you know and that's a big deal to me and i feel like i really need to show out for this one you know because i've never been a fighter either to lose back to back because i at least like if i'm not learning in the gym i'm learning from those fights

trust me i think you did learn from that fight and what you're talking about with that third round that you should have fought that way in the first round isn't that a big part of the whole experience of having high level competition yes there's these little little lessons that you learn in each individual encounter and they they're major. Even though they're small, they make for major adjustments or major improvements. You know what I mean to say? So having that fight with Nasreddin and showing that I need to put the gas on a lot of these dudes

early, period. And make them work. So I didn't make Nasreddin work as hard as I should have in that first and that second round. Now, what kind of strength and conditioning routine did they have you on? Because you have such a wild style of fighting. I mean, you have to have a deep, deep gas tank

to fight the way you fight. Man, I got a psychopath, man, as a conditioning coach, man. Perfect. Because, yeah, big fact, shout out to Justin Hardick, man. So he been sending me actually workouts, right? So this is what I just did here. I can actually show you because he hasn't been out here with me to help me train so like this is one of the workouts that he had me do uh right here i'll let you look so look this is also cool right so he sends this

out like a little history lesson right talking about uh akana uh in that war you know saying uh think d-day you know and just talking about like you know what I'm saying? Think D-Day, you know? And just talking about, like, you know, what the soldiers had went through and how they had to, you know, keep fighting and keep going up that hill doing so many obstacles and dodging bullets and all this other stuff. That's all about kamikaze shit.

Right, tell you about it, right? Wow. And then he gets to the workout. Wow, all this history lesson and then the workout. Yes, sir, and it gives me pump you know and like because it's just a reminder like bro like like it's a mentality thing you know what you go through and then how you take the fight or how you take your training seriously you know you got to make that switch

right you can't just go through a workout I'm just get this done like you will I live or die like I'm training for like like, war. Yeah. Point blank, period. You know, and that's what I love about him. So we do a lot of, you know, cool, unique things, man, with him. But he makes sure to push me to my limits, you know. Now, how do you balance out strength and conditioning workout with skill workout? Like, what is your, like, a week's work with you structure? So Monday through Friday, man, so I'm in the gym

point blank period and I even work out Saturday and Sunday but I be doing my own thing, you know. But Monday, we do HPI work so that's strength

and conditioning. On that same Monday, we do striking MMA work with my head coach or whatever. So, just two days, you know.

Tuesday, same thing, working with conditioning coach. Then I'm working grappling. Tuesday is grappling day so wrestling, MMA. And then Wednesday, same thing, working with conditioning coach. Then I'm working grappling. Tuesday is grappling day, so wrestling, MMA. And then Wednesday, same thing, conditioning. So we might work, let's say, like functional work, you know what I mean? Just working the weights like kettlebells or like what's the one they have?

Mace. Steel mace and do functional work with that. And Wednesday we got spawn, you know. And then Thursday we had the same thing, just outside conditioning. Now we running. You know, we outside with it. And after that, with Thursday we got jiu-jitsu training. And then Friday we have just open mat, you know what I mean, that we work with coaching.

But then also Friday we hit a heavy heavy lift Yeah, and so do you have days where you like what would you are you specifically doing? Jiu-jitsu some days or wrestling some days so Tuesdays and Thursdays grappling Tuesdays is wrestling Primarily and then Thursday is just isn't hard to get everything in because that's one of the things about MMA There's so many skill sets you have to work on. Yeah, yeah, of course, of course. I mean, but the core things, you already know what the core things is for real,

is jiu-jitsu, boxing, kickboxing, slash Muay Thai, judo, and what else can we put on that? I guess that's it for real, four things, you know? Yeah. That those are core things, so we get to work all those fundamental things, you know, but it's actually like trying to actually form our own type of martial arts. And then Coach is just always trying to have us work on our, you know, abilities, right,

and try to form us into the best fighter that we are, you know, and he just tries to work those attributes that we have, you know. And when you do by yourself on the weekends, what do you do, just concentrate on what you think you need to work on? Like, how do you do that? So with Saturday and Sunday, I usually work with Andy Simmons with wrestling on Sundays. And Saturday, I pretty much just do my own thing. So, like, a little workout, watch some little videos.

I still do the same thing that I've been doing for the longest time, always trying to find different videos but do a little fun little workout. But it's nothing too stressful. It's just having fun and just keeping my tools tight. You know, so that might just be hitting the bag and just working on, like, certain little basic techniques. But Sundays, though, I work out with Andy Simmons almost every Sunday. You know, and Andy Simmons is a dog. Like, you can bring him up if you want to.

But, you know, like I said, from Michigan State, undefeated. Was undefeated in his high school and then went into uh being a collegiate wrestler at d1 michigan state and going crazy there too so do you have anybody that works with you on your nutrition uh i mean we don't work on it necessarily but like we eat clean though you know so uh justin cooks up all our meals uh so that's my coach again uh conditioning coach so that's great yeah yeah so it cooks up the bison um everything is like um i feel like it's like dog food man we eat the same stuff every day man but uh we eat up uh bison meat and uh chicken and uh just white rice and broccoli real plain real simple real boring you know nothing too crazy but i told you like with

me it is perfect you know but at the same time I don't have to really focus on like literally what I'm putting my body until going to 170 right you know so I still play around I still eat whatever I want to you know being at 185 so was he doing like meal prep or he gives you like pre-portioned meals and then you just save them for the week yeah yeah we eat that same thing yeah yeah but it's the perfect nutrition what you're saying. Yes, sir. That's the right.

Yes, sir. What about recovery stuff? Do you do sauna, cold plunge? We do all that. All of it, all of it, man. It's nothing too crazy. It's all the things that fighters have been doing for the longest or boxers have been doing for the longest. So we do ice plunge.

We hit the sauna. I like cryo a lot more for myself. I hate being cold and wet, you know. Right. But the thing about just the regular ice plunge that you have to do, I feel like it's more mental because you can stay in there a little bit longer. You know what I mean? And I feel like just for the attitude and getting to the ice plunge

and stuff like that, that's what I think it's great for. But I feel like cryo, I like cryo a little bit more, you know what I'm saying, for inflammation in my arms or if my body aches if I have anything going on I feel like cryo will get me right real quick cuz I only get to be in there for like three minutes Mm-hmm, you know, yes, sir when you do the ice plunge how long you stay in there for? We try to do 10 15 minutes, you know, okay, and then two sessions So you're doing buckets of water with buckets of ice and you're not doing like a real cold plunge where it keeps it to 34 degrees i mean well i mean well we keep it there you know so yeah

we check the temperature and that thing begin to 32 you know and we in michigan too so oh boy that helps the winters in michigan you just get in a lake yeah big yeah big i mean big facts you know so uh and you try to do that at the evening? Like, when do you do that, the recovery stuff? We try to hit it. So usually we've been doing it Monday, Wednesdays, Fridays, you know, right after, like, a workout, you know what I'm saying, with him. And then we go straight into it, you know.

But don't do the, like, bucket of ice and stuff like that. Don't do it every day. We don't do it every day, no. Do you get massages and stuff like that. Don't do it every day. We don't do it every day. No. Do you get massages or anything like that? No, I don't really get no massages, man. If I do get a massage, man, it'll probably be at the mall or something. But I like the compressions.

Oh, yeah. Norma Tech's. Norma Tech's, yeah. Norma Tech's is cool, you know, so that works, you know. But, yeah, I don't really get, like, massages. Nothing too crazy. Like, you know, everything real basic, man. Like, my really get like like massages nothing too crazy like you know everything real basic man like my thing is like it's just every day now I get to train every day so it might not be like

the craziest things that I'm doing but I'm doing the same thing consistently right having no job has to be a big factor oh yeah going from you know having a job and training when you can to having training being your whole job big fact because like i said i'm not doing nothing crazy or special just able to do it every day you know so many fighters that fight at a world-class level that still have a job it's crazy i mean that's just the sport that we in yeah you know but my thing i i will yeah it is it is unfortunate but i've been blessed and i've been uh fortunate fortunate enough to be able to fight the way I'm fighting. And I've been rewarded for it.

So I feel like a lot of fighters, if they put more on the line and they go out and actually try to take a little bit more risk, they could potentially be on the other side. But at the same time, it's all about winning. You know what I mean? But unfortunately, you see some guys that win some fights, whatever, but they're not exciting, they're not fun, and you don't see where their career takes them, and they don't make a lot of money, which you see. Like you said, they got another job.

They're still training. They're still trying to find sponsors, whatever, just to pay some certain bills and stuff like that. So it's that risk and reward factor. So if you're willing just to win but not be exciting, you know what I mean, just realize you're not going to get the money that you're really looking for, and you're going to have to what I mean, just realize, like, you're not going to get the money that you're really looking for and you're going to have to, I guess that's the harder route, I feel like, you know, unfortunately.

It's interesting, like, those calculations. Like, are you just trying to win or are you trying to win and be someone who's very entertaining? Right, big fact. And I feel like, you know, a lot of guys don't train that way. And I've been training like that for a long time, you know. And I wouldn't even say, like, I'm a hard guy to spar or nothing like that but I'm trying to touch you though you know I mean we see it in kickboxing we see it in boxing how those guys spar not always gotta spar for real like they be trying to knock dudes out you know and I feel like some guys in the MMA culture whatever

they just want to touch like man I don't really want to hurt you know it's a dude so we just gonna touch like this and and just tag each other. But I feel like that plays a part in your fights too, you know. And a lot of guys get touched up even more because of that in a fight instead of actually taking it serious and sparring. Because they're not used to sparring hard. Exactly, right. So now they're getting touched up for real in an actual fight, you know. How do you balance that out though?

Because if you spar too much, you leave too much in the gym. Well, how many times did i tell you i spar in a week one time one time one time that's it that's it what i need to spar more for interesting yeah big fact you know but it's a good day yeah man what day is that d-spot wednesday wednesday yeah and so thursday and friday thinking about working drilling drilling and drilling. Yes. Yeah. Yeah Well, it sounds like you got a great plan man, and I'm very very much looking forward to this fight in December That's a pretty fight for you And I love the fact that you drop it down to 170 no big face man And before that though to like before we even end off on that, you know

Because I said I wanted to fight at 170 you asked me like who some names Yeah, so if it's not shot cotton, it's not Jeff Neil, you know, I love to fight at 170, and you asked me, like, who's some names. Yeah. So if it's not Shao Kahn and it's not Jeff Neal, you know, I'd love to fight Sean Brady, you know what I'm saying, or Vicente Luque. You know, those are two great names, two good matchups for me, you know, and they both coming off of L, you know. Those are great fights. I'd like to see all of them. Big fights.

But listen, man, I'm a big fan. I'm real excited about your future. Thank you, man. Hearing your story has been fantastic. All right, man. I appreciate you for having me. I appreciate you very much, man. And, again, I'm really looking forward to December and Thank you, man. Hearing your story has been fantastic. All right, man. I appreciate you for having me. I appreciate you very much, man. And, again, I'm really looking forward to December and your whole career.

And this 100, man. I'm a fan. I appreciate it, G. All right, brother. Thank you very much. All right. Tell everybody your social media so they can find you. Oh, yeah, yeah.

You already know, man. So my social media is NewMassa94. That's my Instagram. I got a YouTube channel now. That's Joaquin Buckley Official On YouTube And then as well I got you know My own little business

Solid Foundation You know So make sure y'all go follow That page as well On Instagram What is that business? Solid Foundation It's just apparel

Just merch Oh okay Yeah you're on clothing line Yeah yes sir That's good You already know Spread it out Yeah yeah you already know

Alright brother Thank you very much Bye everybody Yeah, yeah, you already know. All right, brother. Thank you very much. Bye, everybody.