The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #136 with Jamahal Hill

Episode Date: February 10, 2023

Joe sits down with UFC Light Heavyweight Champion Jamahal Hill. https://www.ufc.com/athlete/jamahal-hill

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. We're up. What's up, champ? What's going on, man? Pleasure to do this. Pleasure to have you in here, man. Yeah, thank you for having me, man.

I appreciate it. That was a phenomenal performance in Brazil against Glover Teixeira in his hometown. Last minute, like, I mean, how much time did you have to prep for that? I had about six weeks. Oh, you did have six weeks. Yeah, I had six weeks. But you knew that it was supposed to be three rounds, and then they changed it to the title for five rounds, right?

No, it was a title right there. Oh, that was right after Ankalayev and Yom Bohovich. So right from there. They legitimately called me while they were still. Wow. Yeah, while they were still in the gauge. If you wanted a full camp for a five-round fight, though, what would you prefer? Like how much time do you really need?

I prefer maybe about eight weeks, about eight to ten weeks. So it was slightly abbreviated, but your performance was phenomenal, man. I mean, it was amazing to see you pick apart Glover like that and to do so well on the ground too. I mean, that was a big victory. Yeah, I mean, a lot of people thought that I couldn't do it. I don't know. Well, that was just a general assumption was that I couldn't grapple on the ground and things like that.

That's definitely. But you're getting that general assumption from who, though? People online? Just pics. You know what I mean? Just people like that. Like an analyst. Then any of the fighters or whatever that I talk to, they always say it's always something that they say.

Even guys in the division. They were like, oh, he's just a boxer. You know, I don't know if he can really wrestle or if he can really ask, like, kicks or anything like that. They're questioning the kicks, too. You know, so this is. That's one of the biggest moments in the fight, that left high kick yours. Yeah. Well, people are going to question you until they can't anymore.

Right. That's how it goes. You know, there's always, ah, I don't know about this guy. And then all of a sudden, he's the best ever. You and that's why i'm that's why i'm just hungry for you know i mean for names man i'm hungry for the next challenge what did it feel like when they strapped that thing around your waist man this is it's a hard thing to describe it was just like like almost like unreal like almost like living like almost like unreal, like almost like living, like almost like in a dream, like one of the dreams that I've had.

You know, and it was just like, I don't know, it was just crazy, just the weight of everything that I did and been through and everything. It was a lot. Yeah, it seemed like a lot. It's a lot for everybody. I mean, that's a moment that very few human beings will ever achieve. There's it right now. Yeah, that was when he told me he was about to retire.

I mean, it's amazing how long that dude has hung in there. He was the boogeyman for six years. You know, for six years, Glover lived in Brazil, and he couldn't get a visa. And this was, like, in the early days, like when Chuck Liddell was the UFC light heavyweight champion. That's how far back Glover goes. Right.

I heard something about like he went pro in 2001. Yeah. Crazy. Right? Crazy. Yeah, that's wild. 22 years later. And then.

Still fighting for the world championship. And, you know, that fight with Yura Prohaska where he lost the title. I mean, that was a crazy close fight until he got caught in that choke. He was ahead. I think he was. Yeah, he was ahead

in that fight. I believe he was. That video that you made to Yuri was hilarious. We played it on the podcast. Yeah, man. You can't let it slide. That's what she said.

That's what she said. That was the first thing that came to my head whenever he said it. I'm coming. Now, I can't. He's ruined the phrase for me now.

Now I can't say it at all. No matter what, somebody would call me and be like, oh, I'm coming. I'm coming! He's an odd duck. That dude's an odd duck. He's strange. He's very different. Do you. That dude's an odd duck. He's strange. He's very, very different. Do you see, like, when he was fighting Glover and Glover was beating him up,

he was like, good job, good job. Yeah, like, tapping him on the— I thought it was like, well, you can't do that, man. It looks like you're tapping. It looks like you're tapping. Like, what are you doing? He's like, good job, good job. But he's saying good job, and I think—

Was it Mark Goddard who was the referee? I think it was Mark Goddard. Whoever it was was warning him. It's like, hey, don't fucking slap him and say good job. You can't do that Just what a weird thing to do guys on top you rain and blows down you like good job good job like Yeah, I don't know the only thing I can think would be Possibly it could be like just like a tactic to try to make it seem like no matter what, you're wasting your time. Right. Type thing.

Yeah. Try to get in their head because I think even with the whole samurai thing, he wants to play. He obviously wants this image to be believed of and things like that. But I just seen him when I was at the PI a couple days ago, and he's a nice dude. You know, he walked up. He's like, nice to meet you, things like that.

And then, like, I came back the next day. I was going into PT, and he was working. He's like, I'm working on it. You know what I mean? Working, trying. I'm like, take your time. Do your thing. He's already had the shoulder surgery, right?

I don't know. I would assume if he's already trying to rehab. Yeah, I'm sure he has because apparently his shoulder was the worst shoulder they had ever seen. The UFC doctors had never seen a shoulder that fucked up before. Do you know what happened to him? No. His shoulder went out of socket in training camp, and they tried to put it back in. And these dudes are yanking on it.

These just gym dudes yanking on it, and they fucked it up way worse. Yeah, that's never a good idea. Yeah, go to a fucking doctor man hey you're a world champion world champion and he had to give up his title like that well it's interesting that he did decide to give up his title he could have held on to it and he could have had an interim title and you could be fighting him for the undisputed title but instead he's like nope i'm gonna give up my title that's why i said he's an odd dude that's strange because that's not only like a That's why I said, like, he's an odd dude.

Yeah, that's strange. Because that's not only, like, a bad move legacy-wise. That's a bad business move. Yeah. Because now your next fight, you fight as a challenger. Yeah. You don't get the same pay-per-view buys. You know what I mean? You don't get the same amount of money or none of that.

Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. I mean, I could imagine the thought process behind it, like you want to be noble, but you got to take care of your money, bro. You got to take care of your money. I mean, how many world title fights you get? If you're lucky, if everything goes perfect, and he should know now, especially being injured, like, hey, this could happen, and you could get a catastrophic injury,

and you could be out for a year or so. You never know know i think it was a play of him trying to be noble just trying to be noble trying to like you know he does the right thing where he respects the warrior i like how you're thinking about it like 3d chess like what is this motherfucker doing for real i'm trying to tell you man i think a lot of what he does is meant to put a certain image in your head. I'm sure. I mean, it makes sense. It would be smart to do. I mean, he's got a weird image.

He's out there throwing kicks at trees. Right. He wraps a tree up in a foam pad and starts punching it and kicking it. Yelling in the woods. Yeah. Like, okay, man. You know, gyms are better. Gyms are definitely better than a tree.

I want to know what it is about being in the woods that just makes someone still yell. What is it? Are you upset with the trees? Do you just feel alone? Do you want to be heard? I mean, these are all questions. Do you want to be heard? Right, right. Does it make you more noble or sophisticated to be in the woods what is it remember when rocky was training for

for Drago and rocky for went to the woods running in the snow carrying logs and shit I think matter and it makes me feel weird just even saying it in the I'm Coming video. Damn it. Damn it. I don't know another way to say it. That's what she said. This is crazy. Where you at, though?

This is the video. By the way, that's what she said. That's what she said! And the one that he did though it's like an axe in a tree stump in the background yeah did you notice that

no I didn't notice that yeah bro it's probably out there chopping wood chopping wood yeah I don't know look at him

I'm coming I'm coming I don't know. Look at him. I'm coming. I'm coming! It is fucking weird. It's like, I guess I wouldn't ask. I might have been high when I said it. It could have just been that post right there. Yeah, I don't see an ax. He's a strange cat, man.

That's a strange cat. No. That was just like, yeah yeah i don't know man i'm coming did you think he's next have they had any conversations with you about who who's going to be your first title defense as the champion of the world sounds good sounds good right and you earned the out of that that, too. Yeah, man. Glover was tough, man. Oh, he's so tough.

Y'all said that, right? I think we need to put a little bit more emphasis on it. Because it's not just that he's tough. He's tough, and while he's being tough, he's still fighting intelligently. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. So, like, for not one second did I hit him with something, and it was like, oh, shit. I was like, oh, I don't want to get hit with whatever's next.

Right. Cover up. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that one, like, oh, I need to find, like, protection type. Right. He never did that. You know? And that was just, like, crazy.

Because it was one sequence, like, I think it was in the third where I hit him with right hand, right hand, elbow, left hand. It's like, at no point was he like, oh, shit, I need to cover up or anything. Because, like, I mean, I finished you at that point. Right. But it's like, bro. That was in the ground and pound sequence. Yeah, when on top of that was so close a lot of referees would have stopped it a lot of referees would have stopped it there I mean you were dropping bombs on him but yeah he kept moving kept moving he kept trying to wait he kicked me in the face from the bottom

yeah he grabbed my arm and pulled me like he's gonna try to pull me into his guard and then when I went in as soon as I like so obviously to to not go in, you got to sit up. I sat up. He kicked me in the face. Yeah. He's a crafty fella. Yeah, man. I think his time with Alex Pajero really improved him, too, towards the very end of his career when he started training with Alex.

Because, like, there's something about, something about having that dude in camp with him and he's on the run for the middleweight title that it all came together. Some of his last fights were some of his best. The Jan Bohovic fight, the Yuri Prohaska fight. Those were fucking great fights, man. Yeah, he's harder to hit clean than I thought. Because he turns his face, rolls with stuff. Yeah, a little bit of that, but it's like it's his hands, right?

So he definitely learns from the people that he fights because he was definitely doing a little John Jones to me, you know, the little like going to kind of poke his hands out. And he watched it a couple times. Like I wanted to follow up with some shots with some combos, but the way he was, like, blocking, he's, like, going like this or, like, putting his elbow up like this, kind of, like, poking his fingers, like,

jibbing his fingers, like, towards my, like, face. So. Yeah, that's a weird gray area, right? Yeah. You know, because John poked a lot of people in the eyes. Yeah. You know, I'm sure he didn't mean to do it, but that style of doing it like that, of having the hands out,

especially when you're as long as John, it's a very gray area. You're not supposed to do that. Yeah, no, you're not supposed to do it. But it's done. It's done. It's done quite a bit. Yeah.

Especially, like, whenever you see somebody get hit with something solid and they start to kind of get crowded and they want to get some space or they want to try to really keep you from coming forward, that's the first thing they're going to do. Yeah. What could be done about that, though, the eye pokes? The only thing that I think is a change of the gloves. They have to figure out something to make a better glove

that doesn't encourage your hands to be open. We talked about this before, but Trevor Whitman, you know, Gaethje's trainer, he's got a way better glove. He makes his own material, onyx. He makes his own gloves and shin pads. They're fucking top notch. But he made a better glove. And I don't know why the UFC is not using it. I don't know what's going on.

I don't know if they have to get it approved by the commissions. I don't know what the deal is, but it's a far superior glove. Does it affect the grappling? Yeah. No, no, it doesn't. But it keeps your hand curved. Like the natural state of it is to have your hand in a curved position versus open. With the UFC gloves, you put those on, your hand wants to be open, and you have to kind of close it and tighten it down.

With his gloves, it starts out in a folded position. Like, it's much easier. So even if you were, like, extending your hand, you would extend it like you would if you had a boxing glove on. Right. You know? I just think there's got to be something. There's so many fucking eye pokes.

I mean, you guys both poked each other in that fight accidentally. The only difference is when I poked him in the eye, it helped him. All right? Because that knee, that knee I caught him with right in the sternum right before that, if I actually am able to put the frame on him like I want to, he's eating a head kick. You know what I mean? So, yeah, I can say me, whenever he poked me in the eye, though, I was on his ass. I was on his ass. I think I just landed like uppercut.

Yeah, I just landed like an uppercut. I was right after Lil Weave, the Lil Weave sequence. That's smooth. How many times you watched it? How many times you watched it? I watched it a few times. I watched it a few times. It was this one little sequence in the beginning,

towards the end of the first round, where it was just, I remember it happening in the fight, but I wanted to see how it looked on camera. And it was all right. Pretty smooth. It was all right. Oh, listen, it was a very good performance. It was very, you were very crafty. That was the thing about the fight that I really enjoyed,

is like watching your setups and all your feints and luring them in and the way you're moving in and out like it was very because i had seen all that in other fights but um with all the stakes on the line in brazil fighting for the title and i think you were at your best i really do man i rise to the occasion i really lock in. Like, you know, I understand. I understand the situation. I understand the moment.

So that's why I work so hard to get to it. And then I trust the work that I put in. You know, so at that point, it's just, all right, do what you do every day. Everything, your pacing, you just were so smart about when to hit the gas. You know, when to, like, just, like, give them looks and catch your breath, and it was just phenomenal, man. Nothing surprised me. Like, nothing surprised me in that fight because everything, like, you know, he's been, that's the thing about being around for a long time, right?

There's so much film on you, you know what I mean? People watch your habits. Then, you know, after you've been fighting for so long, people can see when you stop evolving, right? So they can see, like, all right, this is what he does, you know? And then that's where it comes in, like, all right, this is what we know he's going to do. This is what we're going to do in place of this.

You know, then we get Anthony Smith in, and he's like, hey, there's some things that he does that surprise me in our fight. I realize he did this, and there's some things I would have done differently that, you know differently. Like what kind of things did he do that surprised Anthony? His grip. I think he said his grip, the way how strong he was, how hard it was to break his grip. Wrist control? Yeah, so instead of trying to fight his grip, fight like the underhooks and fight like the positioning.

So like a couple times he got his hands clasped behind my up under my butt if you notice i didn't i didn't fight his grip i wasn't fighting his grip i started fighting at his elbows i started fighting at his shoulders you know i mean just other other other things away from where his strengths were and then that um that trip that trip that he got me down with in the fifth. Smith had told me about that. So whenever he did it, so whenever he actually did it, he showed me about it. I was like, oh, it was slick. So I actually filled it, and it was like, all right, yeah, it was slick.

But it was like, all right, I know what to do. Bang, I land here. That's why I don't panic, none of that. Just chill and go through what I've been doing. Everything we worked on was that. No, your takedown defense was amazing too because there was some times, especially in the first round, he got in pretty deep on you. He just shucked it all off.

Yeah, I think that's why he wasn't able to really fight and try to turn into a scramble because I wasn't going to allow him. I wasn't going to allow him to turn into a scramble for a takedown. So whenever he did shoot in, just met him with hard frames. Whenever I was hitting those hip pumps, those hip pumps were hard. So immediately hip bump, put a frame for him to fight through. If you're going to get this takedown, it's going to cost you a lot to get it. Right.

So that was pretty much the game plan make him will do that and make him work and then whenever we um well while we got rains touch him up then you did that yeah when you woke up in the morning the next day was like what the fuck did that really happen you think i went to sleep joe you think i went to sleep Joe you think I went to sleep Joe no time for sleep and I dozed off for maybe like we were we were up for we were up to like maybe like 11 11 30 I was like we should probably take a nap or something get some get some sleep I think like um I went I went to my room, I laid down, I just, like, kind of laid there.

You know, I didn't really sleep. Did you lay there next to the belt? Yeah. That's how they got that picture, that picture of me laying with the belt. Eventually, I mean, like, I dozed off for maybe, like, an hour, hour and a half. Like, maybe, like, it was, like, a couple hours after we had our,

everybody went to go lay down and everything. I dozed off for maybe, like, an hour, hour and a half like maybe it's like a couple hours like a couple hours after air after we had our everybody went to go lay down and everything i dozed off for maybe like an hour hour and a half after sitting up for a while and uh i woke up and like they were all like up on the roof so we just kind of went up on the roof and a little bar up there and stuff just hung out yeah new world yeah you're in a new world yeah bro it's crazy you know but it's i don't know there it is yeah yeah i was asleep i eventually passed out and then yeah they got what was your experience like in brazil did you like it there yeah yeah actually actually beautiful right time yeah it was beautiful nice fucking people nice people great weather beautiful sights great food beautiful sights yeah all kinds of sights right

different kind of things makes you look at sites a little different yeah like wow there's some genetics down here no what crazy you know beautiful yeah beautiful beautiful great No, what? That's crazy. You know? Beautiful. Yeah, beautiful. Beautiful. Great people, man. It's a wild place to be too because when you think about Brazil and the UFC and jiu-jitsu, it's all from there. I mean, without Brazil, the UFC would not be what it is.

I mean, who knows if it would have ever even happened or if it happened way, way later. And if it wasn't for Jorge and Gracie, it wasn't for the Gracie family if it wasn't for Horry and Gracie, if it wasn't for the Gracie family, if it wasn't for Brazilian jiu-jitsu, we wouldn't be here. Yeah, no, man. It's crazy. Crazy that one family can have such an impact on the martial arts world. Hey, it had an impact on me. Coiler Gracie, the guy in my corner, that's Horry's Gracie's nephew.

Oh, wow. So, you know, that's where I, that's who, that's who our head instructor under our, under our training, under our jiu-jitsu program. That's who we've been training under for, I think we joined under him maybe like about 10 years ago. When did you, what was the first UFC that you saw? How old were you? The first UFC I saw was the Anderson Silva vs. Forrest Griffin.

I think I was like 19. Oh, wow. I was 18. I was 18, yeah. That was a good one to see because Anderson was a wizard back then. He was a wizard. That's what got me hooked, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's what really, that's what what started the path towards towards all of this because like so i've been in a lot of fights growing up right

so like i'm like growing up i've been a lot i've been in different i fought big small short fast all like all these dudes right and um sitting there watching that and seeing what he did to him it was like okay can i do that and if i and right now i well i can't do that i definitely don't want to run into somebody that can do that right you know i think i should probably become one of those guys that can do that you know when people talk about goats you know and i do think john jones is a great argument for the greatest of all time just based on his

record but i feel like there's moments in guys careers and those moments kind of get diluted when you see later performances that aren't as good, maybe when they're older. But when Anderson was in his prime, he was a magician. There was something about him, man. He had this unstoppable aura. He was so at peace and so calm, and he would smile at guys, and you knew he was fucking them up.

He was fucking everybody up, and it was the way he was doing it. He was doing it like it was magic. You know, when he knocked out Forrest, it was like Forrest didn't have a chance in the world of hitting him. He was just waiting for the spot. Ba-bing! Moving backwards. Yeah, man. That was, it was, I never seen anything like it.

Just a whoop, whoop. Yeah. Bang! Yeah. anything like it just yeah bang yeah when he was on when he was at his best like the vitor belfort fight during those times in his prime man he like when he first got into the ufc when he lit up chris lieben i was like oh boy everybody's fucked everybody in this division's fucked and it was just one of those times where it was like you saw a guy was like total next level who had just entered into the sport.

And it changed everybody's idea of like what was possible with striking. Yeah, 100%. He definitely did that for me. I used to have this whenever I first started. Like my amateur, like early on amateur, like my first fights. I think I made my amateur debut back like I think it was like March 6, 2010 or something like that. So, like, I used to watch. I used to have this interest of a highlight video

and just roll through, like, of all these fights and things. And I don't know, something about just watching that video made me feel like, all right, like just watching greatness made me believe that I could be great. Yeah. So I used to watch it before every fight and I was just going in and annihilating people.

Actually, my second amateur fight was against my godbrother. Really? Yeah. He actually had brought... After I watched the Anderson Silva fight,

he had a fight. He did, like, an MMA fight. He came back. He had the video. So, you know, I seen him. Like, oh. You know, it was like, all right, it can actually be done. It's actually possible.

Like, it's actually a scene for it around here. Then that's when I found my own gym. That's when I found my coaches. Like, my coaches that are here with me. And I started training with them. And I'd say maybe like four months later, four and a half months later, about four months later,

I ended up fighting him on a week notice. Did you guys have a conversation? Yeah. Whenever they hit me up and asked me about it, I was like, all right, let me hit him up and I'm going to talk to him about it. And he was like, yeah, you know, he was like, it's just a sport. It's what we got into, you know, it's part of the game. You know, of course, now I feel differently about it just for the simple fact of, like, we ain't making no money.

Right. You know what I'm saying? Right. So it was like now I would have been a no but I'm just not getting this one I'm trying to get the expense I can't on the mail right whatever so we did and I end up winning and like like I think it was like 40 something seconds then I end up choking this guy out after that I don't like 30 seconds like so I was so choking this guy out after that in like 30 seconds.

So when I came out, I was just whooping people. And my fourth amateur fight was a title fight. And it was a lot like the Glover Teixeira fight. Bro, I whooped this dude's ass, bro. Like fur rounds. Like, his lip was, like, almost inside out. His eye was, like, gashed above. His eye was completely closed.

But he would not stop coming after me, bro. He would not stop coming at me, just, like, trying to hit me. And then, like, I think I got tired. But they, like, I think, like, the first round, the first round, I had him down, pending a full mount, pounding him, like, pounding him out. And they stopped the round, like, a minute early. Whoa. Yeah.

Was he a hometown guy? Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, so he was, like, like. Yeah, man. Yeah, so he was like, like. Yeah, trying to save him. And there was no commission. You got to think, there was no commission back in Michigan back in the day. You know what I mean?

So it was just like, basically like guys just renting out venues, renting out a cage and just putting on fights. And so like, yeah, bro. It was, it was, it was. Then the next round, I think I caught him with a head kick, and he stopped at a minute early again. You know, then I end up eventually getting tired. That's why, like, amateur-wise, like, eventually it was just like, oh, it's a no contest.

But I actually got caught in a guillotine at the end of that, like, after I got tired. Like, I think it was, like, maybe, like, the fourth, fifth round or something like that I got caught in a guillotine because I just tried to shoot on him. I just tried to shoot. I'm tired. I'm going to hold him down, catch my breath.

But I didn't finish the takedown. It was not my best work, Joe, not my best work. Yeah, I got caught in a guillotine. You started your training with just MMA. Is that the first training you'd ever done well done any karate or anything when you were younger when i was a kid i did taekwondo i did like a little taekwondo whenever i was a kid but most of it was just like like stuff my dad showed me like you know i mean just about like how to how to how to hold tight how to roll with punches and

things like that and then uh like my uncles like my with punches and things like that. And then, like, my uncles, like, my uncles showed me things. Like, I was always into martial arts, you know. So my brother that passed away before I went pro, he was into martial arts like I was, you know. So, like, you know, he would hear some things, and he was really smart, you know? So he'd hear some things, he'd see some techniques he'd show me, and we'd just kind of dialogue about things. You know, then, like, you know, you had, like, movies like The Matrix and stuff like that.

So, like, you obviously, like, obviously the stuff wasn't real, right? But, like, you, but even in, like, some of that, like, they mimic certain real martial arts. You know, like, Wing Chun is a real thing. Maybe not, like, some of that, like, they mimic certain real martial arts. You know, like, Wing Chun is a real thing. Maybe not, like, the most effective thing, but parts of it are effective. You know, and that's kind of, like, our thing. Like, all right, what parts of what martial arts are effective?

So he was already, like, essentially kind of playing with martial arts without even, like, really, like, knowing. You know, so it was just an interest, though. Tony Ferguson uses Wing Chun. You see, he does a lot of Wing Chun dummies. You know, he practices with the dummy, but you see it in fights sometimes. Like, he'll catch a wrist and use an elbow, or he'll catch a wrist and come with a punch. Yeah.

There's something to it. There's certain parts of every martial art that can be effective can be effective as long as you combine them with the stuff that we know is right yeah right there's just some that are more effective like boxing yeah wrestling kickboxing you know um but if you can have strong fundamentals in those and then be able to sprinkle in some of the things like some people do that's what that's why you get the crazy spinning attacks from some dudes like yaya Like Yair Rodriguez is fighting this weekend. Right, those are just different techniques. Those are just different arts.

And then he's just picking which one and out of which bag that he wants to go. Spinning kicks and T-kicks, those are more like karate. But they're more generalized now in mma um leg kicks that's a muay thai thing you know um calf kicks yeah muay thai jab a jab is really more boxing based you know um but it's effective in all more more forms of fighting. So it's just like that. So you started, like, hardcore training. You were 18 around there?

So that was, like, when you really just started learning everything. Right. Learning everything together, wrestling, jiu-jitsu, kickboxing, all of it together. Right. I started out with jiu-jitsu and Muay Thai, basically. And then how long into it were you like, I think I could be a world champion? See, that's the thing about me being arrogant.

When I got into it originally, I thought I could be a world champion. But it was just like, you never really know. But think about when you were a kid and you believed you could do anything. That's the type of belief that I have. You know what I mean? it's just never changed you know like um i'm realistic you know i mean about things like all right if i can but or how how much i want something and things like that but as far as like believing what i can do i believe i can do anything you know so it's like um whenever i stepped in it was like yeah world champion because whenever i came in although i watched anderson silver and i was in all of them i wanted to know can i whoop

his ass so that's what my general my mma journey started that's what that was that was me chasing anderson silver to see if i can i started fighting at 185 when i was 18 i was fighting 185 because you're not like you're not real heavy for 205. What do you walk around at when you're training? When I walk around when training, maybe like 230, between 230 and 235. That's not, like some of those guys get big. I mean, I can't get up to around like 240, 245. That's around what I was whenever they called me for the Glover fight.

You don't think you could make 185 again? I probably could. Champ, champ. For the right fight. That would be a good fight. Or champ, champ, champ. Champ, champ, champ.

Oh, heavyweight too. Why not? Why not? You can't make welterweight. No, no. Hamza, I don't know how the fuck he'd make it. No.

When you're around that dude in between fights, you're like, what the fuck is going on? There's not a world where you weigh 170 pounds. I don't think I've ever seen him in person. He's a big fella. He's big. He's thick. He's like Johnny Walker, though.

I don't know how Johnny Walker makes 205. He's huge. He's huge. He's huge. And, like, it was like, most dudes that are big, like, tall like that, they'd be like, skinny. Where's he skinny at? Right. He's big. He's just a big dude. Yeah that are big like a tall like that. They'd be like skinny. Where's he skinny at right? He's big. He's just a big dude. He looks like a heavyweight when you dropped him dude

That was one of the craziest knockouts. It was like timber At first I wasn't like I don't know man. It was just like From from my from my point of view like I slipped I slipped bang. slipped, bang. I felt the clean connection. And then he, but he had swung, too. So, like, you know, I kind of dipped. I kind of dipped back. And then when I look, when I look, all I see is his hands back. Now, to me, I know that's like a, yeah. And when his hands go up, like, I'm like, okay, that's like a he's hurt type thing.

That's why I just load it up to just follow up. You know, I'm not thinking, like, oh, he's out right then and there. It's funny because I've heard people not believe in your power, and I don't understand it. I've had conversations with people that are like, oh, he doesn't hit that hard. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? What the fuck are you talking about?

You're watching people fly across the ring and go unconscious. How do you think he's not hitting hard? It's weird when some people just decide that someone is not as good. And they're like, I'm seeing something. I'm watching you fight. And I'm like, this dude's clever. This dude's dangerous. He catches chins.

You know how to catch chins. You have a sense of where they're at and where they're going to go. And then you find them. I'm like, that's a unusual talent and i was some people like oh it doesn't hit that hard it didn't hit johnny that i'm like what the fuck are you talking about watch that what happened there that was that's about as clean as you can land a shot especially to the temple you know um i i understand i understand fighting you know um whenever i was sitting learning and being taught things i not only

wanted to know how to do what i wanted to know why how like i mean the the physics behind it you know and um and in doing that i understand the fighting and angles and things like that on a on a different level you know um it's like how can I explain this the three things that I know that I know that I can do that I see in constant fights that most people don't do I understand

where I am in a fight as far as positional wise alright where do I stand what's happening in the fight what my options are and what they're trying to do, you know? And it's just almost like embedded into my senses to where my body reacts and it does the things naturally, you know what I mean? So it's like that's why I like that part in the fight where I just float and just move and just like, it's like,

did I see what he was throwing, honestly? No. But you kind of knew where it was going. But I understood based off of where it was plunged, what's next, my body, like, it's just, it's crazy, especially when I'm locked in. It's, like, one of the dopest feelings in the world that I wish, like, I could, like I could like plug like a wire from myself into

other so they could like just just see it maybe from my eyes or just how I'm feeling it or whatever but it's just like that's how I knew I was really good you know um I think it was before the Santos fight we were in the back or we were doing pad work and I was just flowing you know and I was feeling good and I'm hitting the pads I'm like like, all right. And I'm now, sometimes whenever I hit pads, I'll like kind of put myself at a weird angle and just to try different things, you know, just to land here, to get here, to get to where I want to get here. And like, it just hit me like, there's nothing in a fight that I can't do. And there's nothing that I can't do in a fight at the highest level. And like, it was like, I've been working head down, working so long,

just adding to my bag, adding to my bag, and I never really actually looked up and looked at what I had. And in that moment, that was one of the times that I actually did, and I realized, like, I'm ready to be the best in the world. You know what I'm saying? For real. That's awesome. I felt that.

You know what's inspiring about that? There's some young kid that was just like you that's probably watching that fight and watching what you did and, like, practicing it and fucking around in his living room and fucking around with his friends and is like, I think I can do this too. You know? Like, your success will inspire someone the same way Anderson Silva inspired you. Yeah, man. Isn't that amazing? Yeah, it is. That's amazing.

And, like, having that ability to see those great fighters too is so huge for young up-and-coming guys because having someone who's just coming up who can see you or having, you know, those tapes, you could watch Fedor and watch Anderson and watch all the fighters that were in their primes. Like, you get this sense of what's possible. And then you go and try to incorporate that into your own game, and it just makes everybody better. Yeah, man.

I was hungry for evolution. So, like, I had a period where, like, I just wanted to learn and just be able able to do like like just flow through flow you know what i mean like like like i don't know if you ever been in a fight or been like in training you just flowing like you're sparring you're just flowing you're just like feeling good you're not even thinking exactly yeah you know i just wanted to add to that like being able to do it in more positions and more more steps more more angles you know i just wanted to do so i was legitimately renting the the fights i've rented a lot of fights from like i think it was family video they had a bunch of they had a bunch of uoc so like i'm renting those i'm pulling up

youtube uh youtube boxing videos you know some kickboxing some rest so like any little things that i can try to learn it actually like all right that was nice that was effective and then i could start to do it and then try to turn it flip it into my own you know and bro like that was one of the things that was hard coming up like like whenever people like oh you can't do this can't do this like bro my bag is deep like my bag is deep and it's just now it now i just get to show it now yeah you know i mean now it's because i was just about winning and and still the thing is about you like how old do you know 31 31 start training at 18. like you're still getting better like this is this is not like you just honing your skills and keeping them tight like no you're you're still getting better like this is this is not like you just honing your skills and

keeping them tight like no you're you're constantly improving yeah and that's not a lot of time of training you know you really become like elite at what you're doing you know with whatever the 10,000 hour rule is you apply that like you're you're like still getting better yeah and i still had to i still had years i had years where i had to take off, you know what I mean, where I had to do other things and stuff like that. I mean, I always had periods, and they're still in on time a little bit, where I did make it to the gym a few times, but like, yeah, it hasn't been a whole solid 13 years.

And now that you're the champ, like more resources are available to you, more time, you know, and then also there's the confidence that comes from being a champ. Like most guys when they become champ, then they hit another level. They hit another level once they're champ. Yeah, just I did feel that a little something different just in how the way it happened like Everything went went how how we thought it was gonna go, you know

I did think I was gonna have to deal with deal with some adversity He so he like he landed some shots, you know, but I'm good at rolling shots. We're good at rolling off with shots You know, that's why sometimes you see I get hit I don't give any space That's cuz you may you may have touched me, but you didn't hit me. Right. You know what I mean? So it's like not a lot of guys that have the skill

and the understanding that I have are actually willing to just get in and fight too, you know, because at the end of the day, you push it, you push it, you push that envelope enough to where it's like, all right, the thing is now you have to fight this. I'm good with that. You know, and I have fun with that, too. You know, it's just, I don't know, man. I'm just built for this.

Well, that's what it takes. If you want to be a world champion, you have to have that crazy belief in yourself like you had in the very beginning. You got to put in that time and you got to have that hunger desire you got it all that's a beautiful thing man top of the world jamal hill man this is fun man i just it's just fun being in there man i just have fun out being in there like this is i i feel like i'm just locked into something just like different i don't know like whenever for anybody like young man listening or whatever just like different. I don't know. Like whenever for anybody like, you know, man, listening or whatever, just like it's like for me it's like whenever you're doing something like you're really good at, like maybe you ever seen like back in,

I was about to say back in high school, but we might have had different experiences. I'm old as fuck. I was about to say we might have had different experiences in high school. I was in high school. We rode horses. Like typing. Have you ever seen like somebody that in high school. I was in high school. I rode horses. Like typing. Have you ever seen somebody that can type straight up like this? Yeah.

I can't type like that. You know what I'm saying? But there was a time where I did take typing class where I did kind of get it. So I can understand. It's like when you're really good at something. When you're really good at something and you're just doing it and it just comes natural to you. Maybe not a lot of other people can do it. Like, that's how I feel whenever I'm fighting.

I don't feel like anybody else can really do what I do. Well, that's a big part of being a great champion. You have to have that belief that you are the one, you know. And it's not an easy road. It's the craziest lifestyle choice as a professional person. Like decide I'm going to be a professional fighter and a professional fighter in mixed martial arts.

It's one of the craziest choices you can make in life. But if you can pull it off and if you can get to that world championship level and they strap that, how much does that how much that thing way got some weight It's got some way to it. That's why they put that thing around you Yeah When you look back at fights like that that you had in the octagon and you learn from Does any fight like where you like made a big leap does any fight like stand out for you?

Like what about the Paul Craig fightig fight yeah well the paul craig fight honestly the thing that came from that is realization that you're not better than me you're not better than the game you're not invincible respect you know i mean respect the craft and respect what you're doing because that's what that was in that fight it was i don't it was basically i don't care what you do regardless and i'm not worried about nothing all i gotta do is show up and i win that's really how i felt i felt like all i had to do was show up and i was gonna win and i paid for that you know um i went i like he didn't he didn't pull me down i went down with him willingly you know with him already having my arm locked and everything like that then i'm I'm like, all right, watch this. Start working the legs. But that was the one way he had to win.

Yeah. And I gave it to him. He's so dangerous off his back, too. It's such a different level off his back. But I understand that. But that's the thing, though. I didn't care. I didn't respect that at all.

You know what I'm saying? And that was what the lesson was for me to learn there take from that respect the game give every treat everybody like they're the absolute best in the world at what they do at everything he's a good guy to learn from too because his level on the ground is above and beyond most people's above and beyond his level off his back i mean he tapped ankoayev with like one second to go. I mean, he's something special off his back. That guy is one of the best grapplers at 205 in the world.

He's so fucking good. Like I think Paul Craig could, I think if he dedicated himself, he could be a world champion at legit like straight grappling. Oh, yeah, a thousand percent. He's that good. He's that good. When he locks triangles on people, you're yeah. A thousand percent. He's that good. He's that good. When he locks triangles on people, you're like, oh, shit.

Yeah. It's a triangle. I mean, it's dangerous. When he locked onto my arm, he was strong as shit. Yeah. His grappling. He grabs just desperately.

It's almost complete desperate. You're about to grab like how you would grab a rope when you're about to fall off a cliff or some shit. Yeah, yeah. He grabbed my arm. Like, you don't want to die. That's how he grabbed my arm. Like, you don't want to die. That's how he grabbed my arm. Yeah.

And then whenever I, like, literally, whenever I base and I try to pull my arm, my arm didn't move at all. Like, there was no wiggle. You know how you do it. You can do it. You can kind of, shit, none of that. There was no movement whatsoever. Yeah, well, some guys, when they get to the ground,

they don't want to go 100% because they don't want to burn themselves out. But Paul Craig, like, he could close it off. He's so confident in his ability to close it off. He just cinches everything down. Right away. Yeah. And that kind of took me by surprise. I thought he was going to be more like a technical, like, oh, what's the next step, this step, this step, whoa, this and that,

try to set up. But he was strong, and then he was going to be more like of a technical, like, oh, what's the next step? Let's do this and that. Try to set up. But he was strong, and then he was still doing those things. Did you leave that fight thinking, fuck, I got to learn how to do that off my back? No. Not at all? No. Because I didn't feel like, oh, my ground game was shit or anything like that. I just felt like I fucked up by going,

doing things on his terms. I let him dictate the fight. I could have, could I beat Paul Craig on the ground even then, even then? Yes, I could have. If we had done,

fought the fight on my terms, you know, I'm fighting him. Now I make him sprawl desperately. Now I bang, I make it hard on him. Bang, land some shots on him.

Right. You know, and control from there, you know, not letting on him, bang, land some shots on him. Right. You know, and control from there. You know, not letting him lock onto my arm and then go down to the ground with him. Because when we hit the ground, it didn't, it was like, for him to pull me to the ground, for you to pull somebody to the ground, you don't know how this person is going to land, right? Right. He doesn't know how he's going to land.

And there's a certain space that's created with that. Because I willingly went down with him, that was not the case. I fell down into position just like he did, and he was able to lock even tighter on my arm. Yeah. You know, just like little things like that, like little small things that I don't think anybody else really thinks about, you know, that are huge.

And I noticed them, and I adjust them. That's why it seemed like it's like leaps and bounds but really it's just a small adjustment small realization small adjustment don't do this thing yeah did when when that happened in that fight like we were worried about your arm like your arm got fucked up how bad was it I was dislocated it was a clean dislocation no torrent in there's no broken bone never oh that's great yeah it was basically best case best best case scenario for sure because case scenario you remember did you ever watch um um when uh frank meir uh broke tim sylvia's arm oh yeah

snapped it at the forearm like oh shit like, shit. Like, that's worst case scenario. I thought it was broken. Whenever I was in the case, so that's why I'm not like everybody in the world. I thought it was broken. Whenever I sat back, it was almost like a line you could see. Like, you know what I mean?

Where it was, looked just like a break across. You know? But I guess not. That was just the arm. That was my elbow and the bone just hanging out on the other side oh jesus yeah so it was and then like i was like like yeah i was good i went and stood up and everything and i heard you got on my coach saying that y'all they needed to get me up

out of here all right that was that was what did i say my coach he's like oh you need to y'all need to get him to f wow i thought it was broken. You got to get him to the hospital. Look, I had to pay his respects for everything. Now, me going and standing up for the decision, that was me paying my respect back to the game. And then for, you know, just I had to do it. It was just something that I owe to the game to do. So, you know, and they did want it.

They did want it immediately. But, no, I'm like, no, I'm going to go ahead. I'm going to stand right here. You know, to the game to do. Yeah. So, you know, and they did want it. They did want it immediately. But, no, I'm like, no, I'm going to go ahead. I'm going to stand right. You know, something I had to do. You know, I had to feel that. I had to go through that. You know, and that's kind of like what that was. Even me sitting on the ground like, all right, that was me realizing me

accepting accountability. That was me taking accountability. There it is right there. Yeah, it does. You know. That's a strong perspective that you have that you just accepted. You took that loss like a champion. You know, that's one of the hardest things to do is to take a loss with grace,

take a loss with dignity, you know, and know that this is part of the learning process. You win or you learn. And sometimes you learn when you win, and sometimes you lose, and it's a big lesson. Yeah, yeah. And that's exactly and that's exactly how i approach it i agree a thousand percent and uh from that i just took that and just learned

from it it's funny how you see like mma math just doesn't work it just doesn't work because like you you see johnny walker fights paul craig and takes him out early jimmy jimmy crew beat paul craig beat paul craig and then we went and had we went and had our fight that was the main thing about i was like i was like uh i was happy about getting the crew fight because he had beat paul craig so it was like i felt this couple anyways getting into the ground you know and things like that and i really i really wanted to go in and dominate dominate in that fight but i wanted to do it under my terms i wasn't just gonna go in and dominate and dominate in that fight, but I wanted to do it under my terms. I wasn't just going to go in and let him just grapple me. We were going to hit the ground.

We were going to hit the ground under my terms. And, you know, what happened happened. And then, yeah, the Johnny Walker thing. But the thing was, you know, Paul's solid, bro. You know what I mean? Anytime me and Paul in the same place, he got drinking and dinner on me, how always, you know, Paul's solid, bro. You know what I mean? Anytime me and Paul in the same place, he got drinking and dinner on me. You know? But the Vulcan fight, Vulcan-Uzumir fight exposed a lot.

You know, it exposed a lot. And it exposed that my man's got to learn how to, his wrestling, getting you to the ground, and then trusting his stand-up. Now, honestly, I think Paul Craig has pretty good stand-up. If he's confident and he actually trusts it, it's just something whenever he gets in there, he just don't trust or believe in it. You're going to take some hits, you know what I'm saying? But he's got to trust in the technique while still understanding that.

I think it comes from being a specialist too sometimes because he's a specialist on the ground. Yeah. And so his stand-up just doesn't really feel like his thing, whereas you, you're an overall guy. Right. You're striking is your strong suit, but you do everything. I mean, your stand-up also, every fight starts standing up, which is just a big advantage for the striker.

Right. Especially if you've got good takedown defense. You know, like for a grappler, there's this thing where you've got to get this fight to the ground. And you're standing with a guy, and he just keeps chopping away at your legs and hitting you and chopping away. And your power bar keeps going down. You're like, ugh. Yeah. But that's the thing.

Just because of the sheer size of Johnny Walker, I figured that would be a hard matchup for Paul because I know Paul wants to get it to the ground. Right. And I know Johnny has explosive, nasty power. I mean, look what he did to my arm just for me catching the kick. Yeah. He did that.

That wasn't him throwing the kick and me blocking it. That't him throwing the kick and i just i was like i just like caught it like just barely just barely tapped it in my arms swell up you know i mean like dude has got some power he's got crazy power he's got some crazy power and he knocked out khalil round tree i was like jesus yeah the short elbow yeah that. That was the one fight that I was worried about. If you actually look, whenever I first hit him and I hit him with those shots and he tried to grab me, tried to push me against the cage all the way across, you see immediately where my hands went. Right to the bicep.

My hands went immediately to the bicep. No, we're not doing this. No, it's dangerous. He's knocked a few people out with that, I believe. That's one of the things he's nice with, just bow, a little short elbow. He's so dangerous. That was crazy, too. Look how he does it so tight.

Boom. I mean, amazing. He's using leverage. He's using the leverage of his height. So he's coming down, he's just heavier and leverage. He's using the leverage of his height. So he's coming down. He's just heavy and he's tall. He just drops his weight. When he did that celebration, though, and dropped down and did the worm, blew his shoulder out.

I was like, what happened? I remember I was interviewing him. I'm like, is your shoulder okay? He's like, no. No, it's not. Adrenaline was still pumping through him, so he didn't know how bad it was. Crazy that he did that on a celebration. Destroyed his shoulder.

Giant-ass scar on his shoulder now. I mean, I don't know how much that affects him still, whether or not he's okay. Because fighters, they'll have a thing where forever that arm's compromised, and they're still fighting, and they're still winning. But they don't have full power in that arm anymore. Yeah, it while for me to uh from my arm for my arm to be all right yeah right there like fully fully all right crazy how that did it that that falling down and doing the worm did it like right there because i slapped yeah he slapped right there he slapped he blew his fucking left shoulder out and now he's get it left shoulder out. And now he's got a, yeah, right there.

Pop. And now he's got a giant fucking scar on his left shoulder. He's being goofy. Yeah, people have hurt themselves doing some stupid shit. Who was, didn't Terrence, Terrence hurt himself celebrating. Did he? His debut. His debut when he knocked out Favola. Did he? His debut. His debut when he knocked out

Favola. Did he hurt himself? Bro, he jumped on the cage and hurt his knee. Oh, that's right. That's right. That's right. He blew his knee out. We might have to do a list of We might have to do

a list of that. Injuries during celebrations during celebrations yeah look at that he's like i hurt my knee that is so crazy that he did that that's right i forgot about that yeah terence mckinney's a dangerous dude too yeah that's a guy who goes all out quick he comes at you that guy comes at you yeah he's got to work a little a work a little more finesse because that flying knee, the flying knee that he gets caught with, it's just like a product of his instinct being just to wrestle. You know what I mean?

So whenever they charge, they make a fast one, they charge towards him and it kind of gets his head away or he doesn't see. First thing he thinks, like, all right, he feels the momentum coming in. Like Ben Askren and masvidal yeah like that that instinct's hard to shake it is yeah it is just gotta the instinct of a specialist yeah for work when you look at like the the landscape and the light heavyweight division like what fights are intriguing for you right now like

intriguing in what way? Intriguing like, this is the guy I want to get in there with. All right. In that way, like, pretty much everybody at the top present different challenges. You know, everybody has their own different challenge. Like, I think Blachowicz would be a good striking and mix-up challenge. Magomed is a good mix-up challenge. Michael Madd's a good mix-up challenge, but I think he's going to come more of a heavier wrestling

type thing. Yuri's a striking challenge, so that'd be a flowing striking challenge at that, because he just flows. I'm good with flowing. I like to be creative and do things and flow. He's so herky-jerky. It's a very unusual way he moves.

Everything's like his hands are down. He's switching herky-jerky. It's a very unusual way he moves. He's like, everything's like his hands are down. He's switching stances. Yeah, he's just doing that. But I understand that, though. I understand that movement. I understand that type of fighting, you know, just trying to be loose to be fast. Be fast. It's like water.

Be water. The whole thing like be water. He's just trying to flow and crash, you know, just be loose, loose, loose, and then bang, crash and hit. You know, that's essentially the same thing that I'm doing, you know, it's just I'm a little more technical You know, I try to stay a little more Italian. I try to uh, I try to keep more options open for myself Hmm. I mean if that makes sense So has the UFC given you some sort of a timeline on when your first defense would be? Has the UFC given you some sort of a timeline on when your first defense would be?

No, I think it's kind of hard for them to do that at the time, right? Right. It's because Yuri's hurt. Mahomed and Jan fought to a draw, so they don't feel like they're, I mean, I don't really see them giving the title shot to one over the other. Rackage is still hurt, I believe. You got Smith who hurt his leg and technically lost. But he was supposed to be a backup, though, with you and Glover, right? Yeah.

But then he missed weight. Yeah. Which, as a backup, man, I don't want to make weight. I mean, he's a big fella. He's a big dude. Yeah, he's a big boy. For him to make 205 is probably quite a struggle. He probably should have gave him more time, too.

Yeah. You know, as soon as, like, some of you are like, oh, this is the fight, and then, you know, you got him, you should back a fighter then. I don't think he knew until, like, a couple weeks later. Oh. So he didn't have as much time. Yeah. That's not good. Yeah.

So, do you think it'll probably be yuri if yuri recovers in time if you recover in time maybe july yeah that's what i want international fight week yeah that's the big one you know i mean you mean you're you know connor and chandler yeah i think connor chandler has to happen later than that though though. Really? Yeah, because Conor has to enter the USADA testing pool. So I think that's six months. I think you have to be in that testing pool for six months before you can fight. So we're in February. So I don't think July would work.

I think it's going to take a little bit more time than that, if I'm guessing. I think they have to fight in, like, September or something. So here we are in February, March, April, May, June, July, August, September. September, seven months. I think he has to be in the testing pool for six months. Right. Well, you've got to be – if it this six? It's either six or more. If it's more than six, that's crazy,

because they're hosting the Ultimate Fighter together. It makes sense that they would try to set something up, a big fight for September or October, or maybe even November, Madison Square Garden. Yeah, that's a big one. It might be that one, which makes sense. Well, that's why it makes sense to get Sweet Dreams in their international fight week

so I can be ready for Madison Square Garden. The question is whether or not Yuri can recover from catastrophic shoulder injuries. That's a catastrophic injury. He had major shoulder surgery. I don't know exactly the extent of the injury, but I know the UFC doctor said it was the worst shoulder injury

he had ever seen, which is a lot. That dude's seen a lot of shit. So if he had ever seen which is a lot and that dude's seen a lot of shit yeah so if he says that that's a big pretty bad it's a big fucking deal so you know shoulders are very tricky it's such a weird joint it moves in so many different ways that an injury can you know you got to really rehabilitate that correctly and it takes a long time yeah i was coming off uh i was coming up i think coming off a partial tear in my labrum after the Santos fight. The second round, he actually dumped me. When he got that takedown, he kicked me in the body, he got that takedown,

he dumped me. He actually dumped me on my shoulder. So he actually did a little bit of damage. So I understand how much it actually takes for a shoulder to fully, fully heal. Did you have to get shoulder surgery? I didn't have to get surgery or anything done on it, but it took a while for it to heal. Just rehabilitation?

Right. Did you do stem cells? No, I just did physical therapy. If you ever get in that situation again, get a hold of me. All right. We'll connect you to some stem cell places. Yeah, for sure. A lot of guys are going.

Kamaru just went down to Columbia. A lot of guys are going to do that bio-accelerator place down in Columbia and getting stem cells. It'll really help your recovery, especially for injuries. It cuts the time down drastically. I was just talking to someone. I think somebody just came up to me and offered me. They said they got a place down somewhere down south.

We have a place we work with in Austin. We have a place we work with in Austin that helps a lot of guys come into Austin and get stem cells here. And that's a great option, too, if you want to stay in the States, too. But they can do stuff in other countries that they can't do in the United States. In Colombia, there's a great place, the CPI in Tijuana. There's a great place in Panama that Dr. Neil Reardon runs. And the laws there are different. The laws of the United States, for whatever reason, you can make all sorts of reasons for why they can't do it. None of them are good. But they have a lockdown on what you're allowed to do

here in the United States, even though it's highly effective and even though you're dealing with injured people that really should have every option available to them, especially when some of these options have proven to be effective. Yeah, 100%. I'm just now learning, like, all the things that are proper things and things like that to take care of my body. That's another one of the unfortunate things about coming in late and learning things late. Yeah. So, yeah, that's definitely one of the unfortunate things about coming in late and learning things late yeah so um yeah that's definitely one of the things i'm probably uh i end up end up in too you

know because this is part of the job you're gonna get banged up you're gonna have you're gonna have things happen to you and uh yeah you're in the destroying bodies business right right right but yeah though uh on the main thing, though, like, Yuri ideally would be the fight that I would want. Yeah. Just because I think that's the better sell, and that's the fight that I think a lot more people want to see. I don't think people are really big on watching Maga Man fight right now.

He's good. He's a good fighter. He's a great fighter. The problem with a fight like that, a fight like that puts a bad taste in people's mouth, and it's not his fault. It's just the way they match up, and then the decision, the fact that it was a draw.

I watched it again. I still don't think it was a draw. It was very close. Who did you have winning? I had Ankalayev winning because I thought Ankalayev won the first round, although it's very close. I thought he did too. Yeah, but then you gotta give credit to Bohovich for those kicks.

Because he had fucked that leg up. Bad. Both of them. And he just goes shin to shin with dudes. Yeah. He just goes, boom, let's try it out. Let's go shin to shin. Let's see how you feel. And next thing you know, your legs don't work like they used to before. That dude's dense. I mean, you see the power that don't work like they used to before. That dude's dense. I mean, you see the power that guy carries?

He must be dense as fuck. I bet his bones are just like fucking wood. You know, he's just dense. And when he goes crack shin to shin with guys, like, that's crazy confidence. Yeah. Just kicking another dude in the shins. You know, there's a dude named Malapet. I think it's a technique to how he does it.

Oh, for sure. Yeah, for sure. He knows the spot on his shin. Yeah. But it's just very impressive that he does that. And, you know, he's just so good at Muay Thai and so good in that fight at doing that. But then the wrestling, he got taken down by the wrestling. Yeah.

But that's a great adjustment by Magomed. I mean, he's a real world-class fighter. Yeah, he is. I think he's legit. All those guys from Dagestan, that is a hard spot in the world, man. There's some fucking killers

coming out of that spot. I mean, they hungry. Yeah. They hungry. They got a lot to fight for. They got a lot to fight for and a lot of those guys,

I think they have this advantage in that they're very religious. So, with their Islamic religion, they don't drink, they don't party, no girls, no nothing, just food and training

and fights. And that focus, I know, Jamal's like, what? Where would I be? Where would I be? Yeah.

If only, if only. Yeah. I don't know, man. I think you got to enjoy yourself a little bit. I think so, too. Yeah. I mean, a lot of the greats enjoyed themselves.

I mean, hey, I did all that shit. Look at me now. Look at me now. Bang, headshot. Yeah. Look at me now. Shout, headshot. Yeah. Yeah. Look at me now. Shout out to Leon.

Yeah, shout out to Leon. That's a great fight, huh? The rematch? Yeah. Ooh, that's intriguing. Let's see. Leon, bro, Leon is dangerous for the same reason. I feel like that make me great. He knows what to do, when to do it.

Now, yeah, he's like some of the things he does the way he times in is like on point it's like an instinct he's good bro oh he's really he's really good he's so good he's one of the most impressive guys I've ever seen hitting pads you see Leon hit pads? Pull up a video of Leon working the pads. His technique is so sharp. So sharp and the fluidity of his combinations, you're like, that's a world class striker. And that set up that he did with Kamaru, he shows him the hand and then lands that left high kick.

Ooh! The kick was textbook, bro. Textbook. Textbook. Textbook. Textbook. Textbook. Textbook perfect. I mean, you watch him with his movement and his pad work. That's just understanding where to be.

That little palm right there, that's just understanding, checking the rotation, just checking, understanding where to be. He's one of the most smooth guys that's ever fought in the UFC in terms of like yeah combinations and striking and just everything he does is perfect his his technique on in his stand-up is just perfect and then the fact that he took Kamaru down took him down the first round got full mount took his back he was on his back for what yeah like about two minutes yeah dominated that round on the ground like who the fuck saw that coming Yeah, it's nuts and you know, it's gonna be interesting to see and now also he's felt tomorrow

He's felt that wrestling felt that power and you know had a situation where he was down in that fight and realized that he had won the first round so his adjustments that have to be made and Then Kamara knowing that he had the fight won if he just avoided that kick. He had the fight won. He was ahead on the cards. That's the thing though, right? That's going to give Leon a weapon to actually have to threaten. Because he's going to have to respect that kick.

Yeah. So that's already a change in the fight. Yep. And he's going to have to respect everything else too. Because Leon, it's not just the kick. He's got hands. He's got knees. He's got elbows.

He's got everything. And he's got the fluidity of his combinations. It's just the best in the division. Yeah, he's sharp, man. Very. But you've got Kamaru, who's a fucking nightmare, man. Kamaru, especially coming up. That's one of the things that I remember.

I talked about it frequently. I was like, no one is calling that guy's name. No one. Everybody's talking about, I want't want to fight this guy. I don't want to fight. No one said. And then Kamaru Usman, if you're looking for a fight, no, no, no, no, no. It was none of that.

It was none of that. He knew. So this is how, like, you got to understand this about Kamaru. This is how good he, testament to how good he is, right? He won the first, Leon won the first round. And for the next better of three rounds, you knew exactly what he was about to do to you.

And you couldn't stop it. Couldn't stop it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. That was like, it took a perfect setup at the end to bring it home.

Because we all knew he was just gonna push him up into the cage and just punch on him. And the crazy thing about Kamaru. And lean on him. Kamaru has destroyed knees. His knees are fucked up, man. Yeah, I see him. I see how he moves a little bit. It's kind of like his angles aren't really sharp on the turn.

Well, he can't move good. He's in constant pain. He fights in pain. His knees are so fucked up that he walks downstairs backwards. Damn. the turn well he can't move good it was like he's in constant pain he fights in pain like his knees are so fucked up that he walks downstairs backwards damn yeah that fucked up and a world champion that he was so fucked up that he told me that he had to walk on the grass like he was next to the sidewalk the sidewalk hurt too much so he'd walk on the grass that's crazy crazy yeah and then still to go in and compete at that level,

train how you train. If you look at the difference between the musculature in his legs and the musculature in his upper body, it's a drastic difference. Yeah. And I think a lot of that is because of the destroyed knees. Well, if you look at the way he grapples, a lot of his wrestling, his wrestling is done

with upper body, he doesn't grapple with his legs. Yeah, it's amazing that some, and he throws a lot of kicks. It's amazing that a guy who's hurt like that can compete. Those low kicks. Mm-hmm. Low kicks. Yeah. He'll throw a high kick occasionally.

You know? Like, I think he threw some high kicks in the Colby Covington fight. I mean, he's just, he's fucking dangerous. Dangerous. His mind is the thing that is most dangerous about him. Because to have the ability to overcome that kind of pain, his cartilage is fucked. So he's like everywhere he walks, every step, constant pain. Everything constant pain.

He just believes he's the guy. He just believes he's the guy. He believes he's just better. And I believe he marched forward with that belief. And that's how he's been getting through that and everything. Plus, adrenaline is. Yeah. You done MMA fight?

No, kickbox. Kickbox. So you know the adrenaline whenever you like, especially in an MMA fight, dog, that adrenaline is nuts. Even the Paul Craig, my farm, I didn't feel it like that. But the minute you get back there to the back and that adrenaline's gone,

tough times. Yeah, you see guys walking out of there, walking out of the locker room. They're like, oh, oh, oh. Limpin' all of a sudden. He's walking, he's walking, he's walking fine. He's all hype and everything like that. The crazy thing is the calves.

The calf kick has changed everything. It's so wild that this one kick that was always available. Always. All of a sudden, over the last few years, it's become like a primary weapon. Nasty. Like Adesanya and Pajera. He said that he fucked up his leg in that first round like

israel said part of the problem was i couldn't move but he got my leg even though israel looked like he was fine it's just because he's a champion because he knows how to hide it and he knows how to keep moving but he's like that leg was just compromised from too many those chopping low kicks he just chopped chop chop out osp got me with the leg with them with them and uh whenever we whenever we fought and then the fight they didn't feel like you know i mean they didn't really feel like after the fight oh my god you know maybe like the last one maybe one of the last ones it was like a stinging like more like a little stinging feeling but um yeah but that's the thing once you see something's working yeah people are going to start taking it.

That's what made me realize there are other people that study the fights and study things like I do because people start to implement those things. They'll start implementing more and more and more and more. Eventually, people are going to start implementing the jab more and more and more. I'm wondering how many people, you saw the Khalil Roundtree fight where he sidekicked that dude and he blew his knee up. Yeah, I'm not a fan of that one. That one scares me. I'm not a fan of that one.

I'm not a fan of that one either. It's like I get it. It's there. It should be used because it is a real technique. Well, in that case, then why can't we just punch him in the back of the head then? I think you should be able to. I really do. It doesn't make any sense to me that't we just punch in the back of the head then? I think you should be able to. I really do. It doesn't make any sense to me that you can't hit in the back of the head.

Well, they treat that because it's a weak spot, right? It's almost like me hitting the nut, you know? Yeah, but I mean. To a certain degree. Isn't your whole fucking head a vulnerable spot? I guess there's maybe a vulnerable spot that's more vulnerable in the back of your head, but shouldn't that be protected? You don't really have a way to defend the back of your head, though. Yeah, but then if someone gets to that spot, you're fucked.

I mean, that should be what it is because that's reality. Do you remember the early days? I don't know if you ever saw this, but Henzo Gracie had a fight early on in one of those organizations that didn't go anywhere like world combat something or another and he took this guy down who was a judo guy he took him down got his back and in those days you could elbow the back of the head and Hanzo just got his back and just boom boom boom and then put him out and then I think he strangled him after he elbowed him in the back of the head.

But it's like having that ability to hit that spot, that's real. It's also, this is the sport of fighting. That's a fucking real vulnerability. The back of the head's a real, the idea that a guy can cover up like this and you have to go around that and this one glaring spot in the back of the head exists.

And doctors will tell you, oh, you can't get hit there. But there's a lot of times where it's okay to get hit there. Like here's one, head kicks. A lot of head kicks. They wrap around. They catch you right at the back of the head. We know this. We know this with wheel kicks.

We know this with roundhouse kicks. Hooks. Hooks happens all the time, and it's okay. But some people, like I don't know. I think it's more so frowned upon on the ground. I don't know why. I mean, I guess that it's more dangerous. But then that's also a good spot to hit then.

When Jon Jones finished Alexander Gustin in a second fight, were those shots to the back of the head? Let's look at it. Let's look at it. There's a lot of times where guys in the middle of the heat of battle. They let that slide. They let that slide. Some of them definitely, when someone's raining down blows

and a guy's covering up and turning, some of them are going back there. I just don't. I get a doctor, I understand. If they would come to me and say no, this is a particularly vulnerable area, okay well then stop fighting. You shouldn't be fighting. No one should fight then.

Because your whole head's a vulnerable area. If you get wheel kicked in the temple, that's a vulnerable fucking area. This little skinny ass piece of bone that protects the side of your head and someone swings a giant heel and it comes slamming right into there. I remember Jorge Serrat.

He did that thing. It was Ben Lagley. He fought him back in the day. He's like one of my sparring partners. My first sparring partner that I first came in. He did a wheel kick. His leg wrapped around and clacked him in the back of the head.

Yeah. And he kind of fell off. That's a bad one. That happens all the time. I remember when Edson Barboza wheel kicked Terry Edom in the head. Yeah. And it kind of fell off. That's a bad one. That happens all the time. I remember when Edson Barboza wheel kicked Terry Edom in the head. Oh, man. Ooh.

Yeah. Really stiff. And we were talking in the commentary saying that Terry's got to do something to take more chances, but he could risk getting knocked out. Yeah, he could risk getting knocked out. Yeah, right when it happened.

It was crazy. I think that might have been the original, Andy's coming. The stiff. Yeah. When guys go stiff like that, that's a hard way to come back from. Yeah. Those are rough knockouts. Especially, Terry Adam never really came back from that fight.

Never was world class again after that fight. Things like a fear. It's got to be like some type of fear. And this is what Kamaru's going to have to deal with whenever he fights Leon. Yes. I mean, it's all right. Like, I think he lost one fight, right? Yep.

One fight early in his career. Early in his career. He got choked. Right. All right. It's cool. You made it in jiu-jitsu. You make mistakes.

You know you can get choked. You know what I mean? Yeah. Getting locked out, bro. Like, there's got to be different. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's very different. It's very different. I believe it out, bro. There's got to be different. Yeah, it's very different. It's very different. I believe it is, too.

There's a moment in Kamaru's fight in his career where Damian Maia got his back, and it was standing. Damian Maia had him clinched up against the cage, and he was getting his back, and the referee separated him. And I was like, what the fuck did you just do? It changed the course of the fight. To this day, I'm fascinated. Because this was Damian Maia basically in his prime as a welterweight,

Kamaru coming up, and there was this moment where Damian has Kamaru's back. He's, like, hanging on him. He's clinched up against him. He's in a very good position. And the referee separates him and i remember at home going no what the fuck are you doing how are you separating this and that's always a weird thing when they choose to separate somebody separate stand up or like um because he was telling me that i needed to work well when i was on top of Glover, and I'm hitting him with elbows.

Yeah. He was like, you got to work, Jamal, which is crazy. Why do they say that? That doesn't make any sense to me. I don't know. You work when you need to work. If you're on top and you're maintaining on top. Well, I was being heavy.

I was being heavy. I'm just zapping. I'm just zapping. I'm basically kind of crushing this diaphragm at this point. Yeah. It's like, oh, you got to work. You got to work. I'm like, I don't know.

Why? I am. You are working. I'm not allowed to cook the stew. Yes, cook the stew. I'm not allowed to turn the pressure cooker off, go make the rice. Right, right.

You should be able to pick when you go, when you're in a dominant position, when you're controlling the guy. Yeah, 100%. I hate stand-ups. I feel like if someone could take you down and hold you go, when you're in a dominant position, when you're controlling a guy. Yeah, 100%. I hate stand-ups. I feel like if someone could take you down and hold you down, that is on you to get up. Having a stand-up just because the crowd's bored, tell them to go watch baseball. That's boring as fuck, and people watch it every week.

You just got to protect the product, Joe. You got to protect the product. I don't believe that. I believe the guys like you will always rise to the top. I'm going to get up. That's what to the top. I'm going to get up. That's what I'm saying. I feel like if you didn't have that option available, guys would be very focused

on getting up. Instead of thinking that they could just wrap their guard around you and wrap their head around you and just hope for a stand-up. Because sometimes referees will do that. They get a guy in a guard position and no one's doing anything. They'll stand him up. And the crowd cheers. Everybody thinks, that no one's doing anything I can't stand them up They'll stand them up stand them up and had the crowd cheers and everything. That's a good job

I go no, you've ruined the flow of the fight up. You can go at your pace Yeah, and if you're on top and if guys got you in his garden, he's squeezing and holding on to you How long can you do that? How can you do that for the four five minutes? You might not be able to you might relax a little and then and then that person's going to get out. And that's what the sport's all about. The sport's all about you being able to figure out how to get out of a bad position and get to a better position,

and someone being able to control you and minimize the damage that they take and maximize the amount of damage they can put on you. That's what it's all about. So if you have a stand-up, then you have a subjective person. It's up to them to decide. Stand them up.

I've seen people get stand up in side control, which is crazy. Crazy. Like it takes too long to get to that spot. And you only have five minutes to work it around. I don't like stand ups at all. I don't think that they should, I think that's one of the things we should get rid of.

And people are like, oh, it's gonna make it boring. Wrest don't think that they should. I think that's one of the things we should get rid of. And people are like, oh, it's going to make it boring. Wrestlers are going to take people down. Figure out how to not get wrestled. Figure out how to get up. There's ways to get up. It's not like once a guy gets you mount,

no one in the world can get up. That's bullshit. Everybody can get up. It just scrambles. Things have to happen. That's part of the puzzle that mixed martial arts presents. Yeah, I think that I was only on the ground on top of Glover for what, maybe like a minute and a half.

In a minute and a half, how many elbows did I hit him with? For me to actually get a warning to be still, that was crazy. It's crazy. That was just wild to me. And then the whole, I think it was the fourth round. The fourth round when I was standing up and i was actually and i was actually starting to lay on lay it on him a little bit he um he told him i think he told him maybe three or four times like like you got to show me something glover you got

at what point are you gonna stop it bro right it was you know what i'm saying because it was like the izzy fight do you think the izzy fight should have been stopped? When he had him on the ground? When he had him, no, whenever he was. Oh, when Izzy at the end. Yeah. Yeah. I think that one is a good stoppage because that scissor knee was coming. You know, like he was hurt.

I mean, Izzy got caught clean. I think he got caught clean, but I think also his leg was compromised because he actually got his leg checked. He got his leg, he got a kick checked right before that, which is why. So he's already stumbling. It's that same left leg that got chopped up in the first round. Yeah, but he was moving.

He was weaving. And I'm not going to say it was a bad stoppage or whatever like that, but if you believe that should have been stopped, the Glover fight should have definitely been stopped. Yeah, that's the thing about being subjective, about a referee being able to decide. And some of them are great. Like Herb Dean very rarely makes a bad call.

He's the best. He's very good at it. And some guys are just real quick with the trigger. They'll stop a fight when a guy's just kind of a little rocked, you know? Herb, baby, we worked for that stoppage on Santos. Yeah. Yeah, I had to work for that stoppage on Santos. Yeah. Yeah, I had to work for that one. I was tired.

Yeah, I was tired. I think I hit him with about like 50-something punches before we got in there, before we got the old wave off. But after that fourth round, though, like you've seen when they pour the water, when they pour the water on my head. Mm-hmm. Bro, that was all his blood.

Like, I wasn't bleeding from my head at all. Wow. Like, it was like, he had, like, chunks. Like, my coach was saying, he had, like, chunks of his flesh and stuff were in my hair and things like that. So it was like, bro, what do you got to do then? There it is. Oh, that's his blood. It's like, bro, what do you got to do? There it is. Oh, that's his blood. That's crazy.

You see the little white chunks and stuff in my hair. Yeah, bro. That's so crazy. If you actually look at my mouth, I was like, where that's coming from? I look down and I see it. I'm like, where's that coming from? That's crazy. Where that's coming from?

Am I bleeding? His blood in your hair. Yeah. Wow. That's crazy. Where that's coming from. Am I bleeding? All of his blood in your hair. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Yeah. That is interesting. But that's why the importance of good referees is so significant.

Because if you get a bad referee, you know, like some guys, they'll have like a personal beef with a certain referee. Like a referee can stop the fight too early. And they're like, I don't want him calling my fights. Yeah, I don't get that person. I just say how I feel about the situation and I move on from it, you know. Like Mark did what he did. He did what he did.

Like Herb, they do what they do, you know what I mean. I'll say how I feel about this situation or whatever. All right, we on to the next. You know. It is weird, though, that that's a factor in world championship fights, the subjective factor of when to stop a fight. Yeah. When to stop a fight, when to tell a guy to work,

when to stand a person up. Bro, that cut was nasty, dude. Like, if you're going to stop it for any cut. It was pretty nasty. I thought it was going to be that one, dude. His eye was like, his eye little brow was like completely like just torn apart. Well, I believe that in a lot of other places they would have stopped that fight. Like if you had it in a smaller commission, like maybe Arizona or something like that.

Yeah, something that wasn't Brazil. Right, right, right. And also maybe something like New York. New York does not have, I mean, New York has a nice history now with the UFC. New York has a nice history now with the UFC, but when we first went there, there was not a real history of MMA in professional New York because it was corrupt. They kept MMA out of New York forever.

Look at that cut. Dude, that's a nasty cut. That's a nasty-ass cut. Yeah. But he could still see out of that eye as opposed to at one point he was wiping blood out of wiping blood out of his eyes right but it wasn't closed off you know what I'm saying

like the Davidson-Figuredo fight when Brandon Moreno caught him with that left hook and the eye just swole up and closed even in Brazil they're like we gotta stop this fight I think that's part of the reason another part of the reason why they didn't want to stop the fight also was because right before that they just stopped the davidson figueredo fight for uh for uh for injury right you know so you stop another title fight take

another title a title from a brazilian off an injury yeah that's an interesting thing i wonder if that factors in like if one referee makes a quick call in an early stoppage and then the next fight the referee thinks about that and goes you know what i'm not gonna let this one i'm gonna let this one go a little longer i'm not gonna hear those booze yeah because those booze are real when the crowd booze and you're in there by yourself your sneakers on going oh everybody's mad at me yeah but but to clover's credit though he i had to technically pour it on him i had to pour it it on him for range setups and things like that. I was never able to just sit and just power shot and just start cleaning his clock.

Because I tried. God damn it, I tried. But he just, yeah, bro. So experienced. So experienced and so resilient. Let me get off into that. But that, again, that's about as close to a stoppage as you're ever going to get without it being stopped. When you were on top of him and blasting him, I thought it was over.

That's what I thought. I thought this was over. I thought whenever he kept in the fourth, whenever I was landing on him, and then especially after he threw it, I slipped, countered with the knee, started hitting him, landed a couple more uppercuts. You know, I'm like, I was expecting him to jump in between us and wave it off. You know, but then, like, whenever I seen he did,

and then it's like, all right, now he's fighting for under because he's trying to clinch up with me and things like that. It's like, all right, I'm not going to burn my load. Now just start just picking shots, start hitting them with clean shots again. But Glover never loses his composure to win. Never loses it. Even after you head kicked him, when you had him stumbling and rocking,

he's still like right here, focused. You never see like, oh, shit, in his eyes. Yeah. Even when Gustafson took him out, you know, he was still in there trying, but just Gustafson just pieced him up but that was Gustafson I think finest performance when he stopped Glover I mean he just what a video game combination he hit him with I was like you're playing the ultimate fighter video game yeah perfect three perfect

uppercuts it was amazing that was an endless let Danny slip he got hit with those three uppercuts and still threw a counter left hook. Still threw a counter left hook. He had to slip and then bang, counter him again. Yeah. Like, that's crazy. Yeah. That's crazy.

Uppercuts aren't meant for people to be taking, bro. Right. They're not. That's a nasty punch. Remember when Rumble caught Glover with that uppercut? Yeah. Sent his two flying. Rumble, rest in peace.

Yeah. Rest in peace, Rumble. What a great guy. Put him down on one punch. Oh, what the power that Rumble had was crazy. And the fact that that guy carried that power all the way up in the heavyweight when he was a welterweight. He was never 170. He was 170 for three minutes.

Hey. He made the weight, Joe. Yeah, he made the weight. He made the weight, Joe. All right. way he made the weight joe all right he looked like a he looked like a skeleton he looked like uh he looked like uh one of the one of the people from coco yeah whenever he did it but he made one of these man for real yeah one of these sugar skulls yeah man when i saw him uh in between fights once, he was so big. I said, Anthony, how big are you?

And he goes, I'm about 230. I go, what the fuck is going on? How are you going to lose 60 pounds? And that was the real struggle when he decided to go up to middleweight. And he missed middleweight. Remember he fought Vitor? Missed middleweight. And then came back as a light heavyweight contender and one of the fucking

scariest guys in the division it's wild silly wild just realized like he can't do that to his body anymore and he course corrected but i wonder about those guys like those guys i mean uh he he developed an illness i don't know if it was related and and unfortunately died but those guys that cut that much weight how much of a toll is that taking on their body? Taking on their body. It's got to be taking a heavy, heavy toll. Johnny Walker, like, Johnny Walker's got to be 240 pounds

before he starts that guy. He's got to be. He's so big. Yeah. Yeah, man, it's... I don't know, bro. It's a heavy toll. I think somebody said something like

he rehydrated back up to, like, 237 or something like that. I believe it. It's a heavy toll. I think somebody said something like he rehydrated back up to like 237 or something like that. I believe it. It looks like it. Yeah. When you're standing next to him, like, how the fuck are you 205 pounds? He's huge, dude. I'm just looking like, all right, where's the skinny part? No, not the skinny.

So what does it say here? 248 pounds one week after his fight. Jesus Christ. But look at him at even 248 he's not fat at 248 big dude yeah I mean he's it's interesting because he's actually been saying he's gonna go up to heavyweight and he's talking about fighting out the right body type bro yeah he's got the right body type of the bounce between two you know who else is big dude That Jolton Almeida dude.

Oh, he's big. He's a big boy. He's big. He's a big boy. He's heavyweight. He'd be like another. He'd be, well, I heard, they actually offered me to fight him.

At 205? Yeah, on the 21st of January. Yeah, he weighs like what? Like 220-ish as he fights as a heavyweight? He's on the lighter side of heavyweight. I don't know, dude. I know, but if he makes it to 205, that's about the same size as Johnny Walker.

That's like the same body build and things like that. So I think that actually would be exciting. Yeah. That would be a good one. Is there any fighters from the past that you look at and go, man, I wish I was in his time? I didn't make a good one. Is there any fighters from the past that you look at and go, man, I wish I was in his time? I wish I could fight him.

I would have liked to. Man, there's a lot of the greats I would have liked to test myself against. You know, for me, it just looks like it's just a test. Mm-hmm. You know, I would have liked to fight Anderson Silva at his prime, at his peak. I would have liked to fight John Jones at his peak. I would have liked to fight Anderson Silva at his prime, at his peak. I would have liked to fight Jon Jones at his peak. I would have liked to fight Chuck Liddell, Liotta Machida, Brock Lesnar. Really?

I would have fought Brock. Really? Bro, I don't, bro. Like, don't get me wrong, bro.ck's is a big name he's done a lot and things like that but i don't i just don't think brock was that good i just think he was big he was definitely big i don't think he was skilled i think he was just big well you know an example of that is when bro Brock fought Alistair. Before USADA came around, when Alistair was on all the Mexican fights. On the good stuff.

He was on the good stuff. See, find that fight. Brock Lesnar versus Alistair Overeem. Look at the size of the ream. That was a fully juiced ream. The fully juiced ream was the scariest heavyweight that ever existed. Look at that motherfucker. God damn, dude.

His eyebrows got muscles. If it was any man that got fucked by USADA, it's Alistair Overeem. I think Alistair Overeem, when he was allowed to supplement with whatever the fuck you could do, because he was a world-class kickboxer, K-1 Grand Prix champion. The type of stand-up skills that he had, man. Brock nervous as shit right here. Of course he's nervous, because he's got to try to take this dude down, and the dude's as big as him.

And Alistair was also a European champion in Abu Dhabi. He won the European trials. You know, Alistair Overeem, he fucking guillotined Vitor Belfort. Alistair Overeem can submit people too. Very good ground game. He got to be able to,

like, you got to be able to go from knowing to be a boxer to knowing to be a wrestler. You don't know that. Yeah, this was such a good fight too. It was such a good fight

because Alistair at this time was in his prime, entering into the UFC, and had great takedown defense. Look, stop-stop single, and his stand-up was unparalleled. You know, I mean, by the time he fought Francis, he was already battle-worn and off the sauce

and fighting natural. It's just not the same guy. I would have loved to have seen Francis in his prime versus this Alistair, because they're literally the same size. Francis is just a natural freak. Francis is like some of the best genetics I've ever seen in the heavyweight division. He's the perfect heavyweight, especially since there's a weight class.

Look how he's putting it on him, man. I mean, he's so skillful. The way he frames off there. He sets up that left kick to the body. Oh, that liver kick. Come on, man. And Alistair's liver kick, that's a totally different level. If you've never been hit by a world-class

kickboxer like that, oof. Yeah. He's one of my absolute favorite fighters to watch in his prime. Alistair in his prime was the fucking man. He really was. And people forgot, man. The ones that shake your organs. You take a couple steps and all of a sudden it just.

Yeah. I remember when he fought Brett Rogers in Strikeforce. And the moment he hit him with a leg kick. You see Brett Rogers' eyes like, oh, boy. This is a different thing. This is a totally different thing. Like you're in there with an elite world class kickboxer. So you would have fought him at heavyweight? Who? Brock Lesnar. Totally different thing like you're in there with dude. Am I lead elite world-class kickboxer

So you would have fought him at heavyweight? Brock Lesnar You like that to 265 something like that you gonna do no one just try to arrest it will just try to dry help me So he's gonna do try to get a little frisky on me when you think about your career what do you have like a timeline when you want to get out of the game um i juggle with it right now i'm just i'm just having fun with it whenever i feel like um people still want to see me and like you know i'm still i still have things that I want to do accomplish I'm gonna keep doing it whenever I feel like I can't be at that level that you know that I'm accustomed to being at

and I'll find something else for me to do so right now you just concentrated on excellence just being the best you can be do you have a thing that you want to do when you're done fighting? Yeah. What do you want to do? I want to get into entertainment. I like to entertain. I like to make people laugh. You're a funny dude, man. You're very funny. Your social media is excellent.

Sweet Dreams Hill. Is Sweet Dreams Hill MMA? It's sweet underscore dreams underscore J Hill. Okay. That's your Instagram. You're funny man you you got a good following on on instagram and you fuck around a lot it's it's like that's a that's a factor like being likable being someone that the that is entertaining that people enjoy and that they root for like people watch like where you at, though? Where you at, though?

Yeah, that. And that's what you said. That kind of shit is valuable. You know, that's a, like, if you looked at an overall, like, a fighter's marketability, there's your ability inside the cage that's already there. But then there's, like, the personality. And that's the intangible. That's what makes people really want to see you. Yeah.

And you got that. I like being, I like, you know, I like, I just like entertaining. Yeah. Entertaining. I like, I like seeing, making people happy. I like making people laugh, you know. And also another thing I want to do whenever I get done is like movies. I want to get into movies.

I like, I like writing movies. I like writing my own stories. I like being creative and things like that. Really? No shit? You write movies? I've written some movies and some TV series ideas. No shit. Interesting. When did you start doing that? Honestly, it kind of started whenever I was a little kid. I don't know if anybody else ever played with their toys, but what I would do with my toys like my action figures it'd be like a whole situation right like all right this is the boss level on this floor right here they on this floor they doing this he got you girl then we do like fight scenes but the fight

scenes always had to lead up to something so i did i was like kind of like making stories and making things up in my head already like we're just doing it with toys like dang i wonder if i could ever create these into like like, movies. Like, I thought of this as a little kid, so, like, that's just something I've always wanted to do. What movies are you into? Like, what's the kind of shit that you really like? A bunch of different things. Like, action, you know, drama, thrill, you know, scary movies.

I kind of watch it all. I'm dabbling it all. So that's the thought of concentrating on like later in your career. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you can do that. 100%.

You know what else you could do? You could do a podcast. And you could do that now. Yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna get that going. You could totally do that now. And it's a great marketing tool because you could talk about fights

like after the fights happen. You could talk about, you could like make a breakdown of what you think could happen just and just talk shit just get get together with your friends and fuck around it's so easy to do and you got a perfect personality for it and it's a great marketing tool too like all all that stuff is great for your your overall profile you know yeah i've been meaning i've been meaning to do it a buck or down there but then i come in and i see studios like yo set up i'll be like i don't have to set up maybe i should get it first well i started out in my living room on a laptop i mean it was just me and my friends fucking it was the most low tech setup ever web camera you know like fucking ethernet cable into

the laptop it was so low tech like you just need to start and then eventually you're like you know like fucking ethernet cable into the laptop was so low tech like you just need to start and then eventually you're like you know what we need better chairs eventually you'd be like you know what we need like a real table that has like microphones that come out of the table you know we need some lighting in this room this room's got bullshit lighting you know what we need better cameras you know we need that and then it'll all start that up yeah but the most important thing is just to start doing it. Like everybody thinks that they look at all these podcasts that are like real successful and they go, Oh, I have to have a setup like that. Like, no, no, no. Just got to just set

a fucking iPhone up in front of you on a table, you know, and just, just talk to it. Just talk into it. You could just do it on Instagram. It's not hard to do. You could just start. And then once you get started, people go, hey, when are you doing those again? And people get excited about it and they want to see it. And then you just build. Just build. Just keep doing it. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm going to get those started. That was one of the plans whenever I got back home after I got done. Let me know. Let me know, and I'll put it up on Instagram. But you definitely could do that. You definitely could do that. And that's also another good source of revenue. You could get more money coming in that way.

And, you know, if a fighter, like look at Chael Sonnen. Chael Sonnen has done a fantastic job of doing that. He breaks down fights, has his videos. They're all super popular and, you know, makes that transition into commentary as well. It's a smart thing to do for a fighter. It really is. Because everybody wants to hear perspective on this sport. Because it's such, you know, you got the people that train and the people that fight.

And then you got other people that just like watching. And the other people that just like watching, they kind of don't know a lot of the shit that's going on. And if they get an insight from a world champion like yourself who explains what this is like and explains what's wrong with this, explains why this should have been different, explains what he could have done, that's so valuable to people. And so to get someone who's doing it like really no one right now in the championship level is doing a podcast. Yeah. Are there? No, no. Aljo started it. Aljo's doing it.

Aljo's doing it. He does it. He's the only one. Izzy's doing it. Izzy's doing it. Izzy's doing his own podcast? Yeah. He does breakdowns. He does reaction videos.

He just did it for my last fight. Volk does. Volk's been doing breakdowns. He does a cooking show. Volkanovski. He makes some good shit. He makes some good shit. He makes some good shit, yeah.

What do you think about that fight with him and Makachev? I think that's a good fight. I think it's a good fight. It's a crazy fight, right? It's a crazy fight, yeah. To go right from 145-pound champion to the first title defense at 155 for Makhachev. That's a crazy fight, man. Yeah.

That's this weekend. Bro, it's crazy. Honestly, just mainly I think a lot of it is because of how Islam beat Charles. Mm-hmm. Like, nobody saw that coming. I thought it was going to be a tough fight. I thought it was going to be a tough fight, too. He hurt him on the feet.

On the feet. On the feet? Beat him standing and then followed him to where everybody thought he would be safe at. I've seen a clip of that choke that he did. I know how that choke was so tight now. So because he, most people finish a head and arm triangle

they go into the elbow. The bicep, yeah. He went up higher. He went up higher and then locked it here tighter squeeze into it yeah well i think his squeeze is just phenomenal because if you see the way he tapped drew dober to the same sort of situation he gets guys on the ground and they just it's i think it's just a next level power and squeeze some dudes just have next level squeeze and next level like grappling power and he's developed that his whole life he's also enormous for 155 he's about as big as you can get and safely make 155 pounds i've never seen him in person he's big he's about

190 he looks to me like a one i mean he looks to to me like a welterweight. Where does Volk walk around at? Can't be nearly that high. Volk is 5'6". 170? I think he was a big dude before. He was. He was a big rugby player. He's got big fucking legs.

He's tough as shit, man. He's fast as fuck. Fast as fuck. He's fast as fuck. And I realized that the Holloway fight. The last one. Yeah. Because I was there and I was actually watching it live.

And, you know, Max is fast on his own, right? Yeah. It's just like, bro, every time Max twitched, like smallest of twitch, smallest of twitch, bang, he exploded. And he beat him to the punch every time. Every time. Every time. It was crazy, dude.

He's good. It was a big leap up. Like, when you go to their first fight, and then you go to their last fight, you see a different Volkanovski. Completely different fighter. He's on a whole nother level now. That guy's drive, his fucking

drive is on top of the food chain. That's why I think he wins. Really? I think he wins. You think he wins over Mokachev? I think he wins. Wow. That's interesting that you he wins. Really? I think he wins. You think he wins over Mockacham? I think he wins. Wow. That's interesting that you say that because he's probably a heavy betting underdog, if I had to guess. If I had to guess, he's at least a 2-1 underdog. What's the betting odds for this weekend?

I think if he comes out loose, creative, standing out to start. I think he catches him with something big. Interesting. He can either cut him open or he can put some damage on him early. That changes the fight. I think that's the main thing he's got to do is put some type of damage on him and get that respect out the gate. And I think he can do it. What do we got for the odds?

They don't have it listed on the UFC set. I'm going to have to check a betting site. Okay. They don't have it listed on the UFC site. I'm going to have to check a betting site. Okay. The thing about Makachev is he might be looking at him like it's an easy win. Yeah.

Because he's been saying a lot of shit. It might just be talk. Hey, short man, what is short man going to do to me? You know, like he's been talking shit about him, about how he's little, and the 145 pounders are a big difference between that and 155, which is true. But the other thing that's true is a lot of times when guys are cutting weight to get to 145 pounds, they're diminishing their abilities. You might see a better Volkanovski at 155,

even though he's the best of the best at 145, he might be doing that like compromise. Big favorite. Big favorite. Are you joking, bro? What? That's a big favorite. Damn, we're not allowed to bet on fights.

So he's plus. I know. That sucks. That's plus 290 for Mikachev, and Volkanovski is 375. Minus 375. What is Volkanovski for the finish? Oh, that's got to be crazy odds. I could find that somewhere, too.

That's got to be crazy odds. What is going on somewhere, too. That's got to be crazy odds. What is going on in the Yair Rodriguez's? Let me see what the odds are of that. I think if he hits him, I think he catches him. Especially like that right hand is fast and sharp. Fast. I think that left hook is sharp and nasty, too. So I think if he hits him with one of those and then he starts working the legs,

that's a long night for Islam. It is. However, I mean I know this doesn't MMA math doesn't really work but if you look at Brian Ortega's fight Volkanovski Brian Ortega almost finished him twice he's got so close to that mounted guillotine and it's a jiu-jitsu base guy yes but same techniques I think it's a little different. But top game pressure and crushing with that guillotine is what Ortega almost got him with. I don't know if Volkanovski survives if Makhachev gets him in that same exact spot.

Whoa. What? What's going on? The website, a different website. I would not name it. It's not. No, it's fine. It has odds way different.

Hmm. Opposite almost. Bet on both. How is that? Go bet on both. The one I checked before would have been printed maybe a couple days ago, and this is updated live. So maybe the betting got so far the other way that they've switched it.

I don't know. I might have to check a third site now to see what this is. Because this has Makachev's favorite to win inside the distance. Right. This is also a favorite to win inside five rounds. Interesting. Wins by submission would be the highest bet here. Interesting.

Yeah, so I'll check something else. Look at the draw. Plus 6,600. It's almost always worth throwing money on the draw just in case it happens. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, weird. Damn. If always worth throwing money on the drawings in case it happens. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, weird. Damn.

If only, if only. 282. That's more valuable than we all knew. I fucking hate that they took away gambling. I feel like you should be able to bet on yourself. I would love it if you're fighting someone and we said Jamal Hill just bet a million dollars on himself. Like, that adds to the fight. Yeah.

It makes it more exciting justin james you yeah you should be able to bet on yourself but the the thing that fucked everybody up was this whole thing with that one fighter that looks like he took a dive kraus yeah well kraus's corner kraus's corner in the sky now now no one from kraus's team can even compete in the ufc you have to leave his camp if you wanna fight in the UFC, which is crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy because if you can't gamble,

what difference does it make where you're training? If you can't gamble, you just made a rule that said they can't gamble, okay. So why are you telling them they can't train with this camp anymore? That doesn't make any sense. And they're saying he's suspended as a corner. Okay, but what about training from that gym?

You can't train from that gym? You can't train from that gym. Right. That doesn't make any sense. You can't train a guy in a way that it's an unfair advantage. So what's the point? Why can't these guys from that gym? If you're going to say Krause can't corner him, fine.

Just influence, I guess. What kind of influence if there's no gambling? If the gambling's not legal anymore. You made gambling illegal. So why are you penalizing these young fighters that don't have anything to do with that and they're coming out of this camp? And you're also, what if the guy's innocent?

Okay, what if it turns out, because there's an investigation, what if it turns out he's innocent? You've destroyed his livelihood. You've destroyed his gym. You've destroyed his reputation. And we don't even know what the reality of the situation is. The allegations are not good.

The allegations appears like they knew a guy was injured. They told people who was injured he was going to lose the fight and everybody bet on the opponent. If that's the case, that's some dirty shit. That's some dirty shit. But, you know, if you want to bet on yourself or bet on your fighter i feel like that should be good that's exciting that makes it fun you find out his brother bet fifty thousand dollars on him oh shit it's it's fun makes it fun i like that i like fun yeah gambling's fun like if like

they've outlawed all gambling on the ufc i would be so upset you're just gonna make bookmakers happy they're just gonna do make bookmakers happy. They're just going to do it illegally. And that makes people, and not only that, bro, gambling brings people in. The first thing I pulled up must have been an error because everything else has the opposite. It has a Makhachev as a heavy favorite. Yeah, well, what did the other one say?

Was Volkanovski not a heavy favorite? Yeah, this is the first thing I pulled up is this. And this must be an error. They must have just switched that on it. Oh, okay. So it's Volkanovski is the favorite. Yeah. But the regular one that you just

pulled up, the other site. This has the site. This has betting across all websites. That's Makachev is a 4-1 favorite. Correct. Which makes more sense. And you got Yair Rodriguez. He's a favorite over Josh Emm emmet five to one here five to one wow interesting interesting you know another fucking great fight on that card is jack de la maddalena and randy brown that's a great fight that's a great fight that de la

maddalena is a bad motherfucker and randy brown is long and talented. I really like that fight. His nose gets me every time, bro. Oh, it's fucked? Yeah, it's smashed. You don't want that nose? No, I don't. No. Yeah, that nose is smashed and never fixed.

Yeah, but that's a hard-nosed dude, man. And he's going to be fighting in Australia, which for a guy who lives there, man, that's such an advantage in not having to get on that 16-hour flight. Oh. Yeah. That 16-hour flight will fuck up multiple days

because even though you're training and you're trying to get, you're still, how hard was the flight to Brazil? It wasn't hard at all. No? Going down there, we actually flew out at night, so I fell asleep before the plane even hit asleep before the plane even left the ground. And by the time I had woken up, we had already been up in the air for like five hours.

Oh, nice. So it was just like, wake up. We got about four and a half hours. I watched like two movies when we were there. And so then once you got in, do you train immediately to acclimate your body? What do you do? I just chill. How many days in advance of the fight did you get there?

I got there Monday. We left Sunday and we arrived Monday morning. Wow, that's not much time at all. Yeah. Have you ever had a fight at a heavy altitude? Not heavy, but higher. I know Vegas is higher altitude than Michigan is. Oh, is it though?

It's like 1,500. Yeah, but that doesn't really factor in. Would really factor, does it? It might. Did you notice it at all? I felt a little different. The thing I'm thinking about is when Cain Velasquez. Oh, yeah.

Mexico City. Yeah. The Mexico City one is a rough one because Fabricio Verdum, he got there real early, like months early, and he trained in the mountains above Mexico City. Like Fabricio did it the right way. He spent a lot of time. That's a guy that doesn't get the credit that he deserves. I believe Fabricio Verdum should go down as one of the all-time great MMA fighters, one of the all-time great heavyweight champions. If you look at all the heavyweight champions and what they accomplished,

Fabrizio Verdum tapped out all the legends. All the legends. Tapped out Cain Velasquez, tapped out Fedor, tapped out Minotauro. I mean, dude, Fabrizio Verdum in his prime was a motherfucker.

And again, that top-level jiu-jitsu, world championship caliber jiu-jitsu. I don't think his prime lasted long enough. Didn't last long enough. But if you just look at his accomplishments, just by virtue of accomplishments, you have to put him in there as one of the all-time greats. Yeah, for sure. And when he tapped Fedor, when he caught Fedor in that triangle, it was like, oh, oh, oh, oh!

It was crazy. I was like, oh, oh, oh, oh! It was crazy. Now that I think about it, whose prime and heavyweight actually did last that long? Stipe. Stipe is probably, if you look at the all-time heavyweight greats, outside of the UFC, outside of the UFC, or outside of the UFC, you have to say Fedor.

You have to say Fedor. He's the greatest. He's the greatest. He's the greatest. Fedor might be the greatest heavyweight of all time. There's always going to be that thing because he didn't fight in the UFC. And then there's Cain Velasquez in his prime who was the motherfucker, Matt. He was the beast. He was the motherfucker.

But I always wonder, like Cain Velasquez in his prime, Junior Del Santo still caught him with one punch and knocked him out. What would Francis have done to him? Would he have done to him the same thing he did when they fought later? Yeah. Because when they fought later, Francis clipped him once and put him out in the first round. Maybe Francis would have done that his entire career. Like, maybe. I remember that damn fight.

That was on Fox. They put one fucking fight on that entire card, and he came out and got clipped in like a minute and a half and it was like all right see good night folks yeah it was like he caught one big punch and apparently uh kane had a really fucked up knee going into that fight yeah couldn't train right and they just they made him fight like he had a fight yeah it's like hey this is a big deal it's on fox got to defend your title And then he goes out there With a blown out knee But then dominated

In a rematch Dominated Oh the two rematches Two rematches Both of them They were hard to watch They weren't even close They were hard to watch

They weren't even close Kane had cardio Like you couldn't Fucking believe That was the scary thing About Kane Like he never stopped Coming at you

It was like A Julio Cesar Chavez Approach Whereas like Julio Cesar chavez approach whereas like julio cesar chavez he was one of the greatest boxers of all time but he wasn't really a one punch guy he would beat the fuck out of you just keep coming never tired combinations always moving always moving i mean i i would love watching julio cesar chavez in his prime. But that's what Kane was like as a heavyweight. No, just never tired. Just constant volume. Like volume you never see in the heavyweight division.

But still, what would Francis have done to that? Like Francis has that nuclear option. Which Francis? It depends on Francis at what level. Stipe too. That Francis. Francis when he knocks out Stipe. That Francis might be the greatest heavyweight of all time.

Yeah. Even against Cyril Ghosn, right? He turned into like, he adjusted. Realized, all right, you're not about to just get in here and chop my legs and took him down. And this is Francis with a really fucked up leg. He had a torn ACL and a torn MCL going into that fight. His leg was fucked up. And he won with that fucked up leg. He had a torn ACL and a torn MCL going into that fight. His leg was fucked up, and he won with that fucked up leg. Put on a master class of just grappling.

Without being able to do what he does best, which is strike. Kind of crazy. Couldn't move well on that one leg. Yeah. Without the credentials, honestly, probably without... How do you say this? Like, without the credentials, obviously somebody who's more decorated and things like that.

But if we're talking like just pure gifts, you probably have to go with Francis. I can't think of a heavyweight champion across history that he couldn't beat. I think the one, the Francis that fought Stipe the second time, what DC said it best, DC's like, patient Francis is a scary Francis. Right. Because he was patient in that fight. Jack.

Calculated. Yeah. He started, the beginning of the end was a jab. Mm-hmm. And his hands, man. You get clipped with one of those bombs. Woof. That Alistair Overeem knockout to this day

was one of the scariest knockouts I ever saw. Man saw man that shovel hook you hit him with that left hook yeah bro that was alistair's fault though because like bro you felt the first one that he missed you with and you still stood in there trying to swing with him get out get out get out get out he's gonna just like the dude from get out get him out out of there. Yeah, look at that. I mean, bro, he's looking at the seats behind him. Yeah, we call that getting your koofy knocked off. Koofy Jones, koofy juice. You see that? You see that?

You see that sweat hanging? Look at that. You see the beads of sweat flying off his chin? Oh, my God. That's koofy juice right there. That was a crazy, crazy knockout. But, again, that's the thing about Francis. It's like to have that kind of power, it's such a game changer.

It's like what Teddy Atlas says that about Deontay Wilder, that he said he's got that eraser. His head and his neck were asleep, but the rest of his body was still awake. Yeah. When it first connects, you can see where his head goes asleep. Look at the difference in Alistair's body between Alistair when he fought Brock Lesnar. It's a different human being. That's natural Alistair.

And natural Alistair. Oh, my goodness. No. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Boom, that left hook. Bam. And then that hammer punched.

Putting his head down, trying to blindly swing. You got to see where you're punching he just he just stepped inside of it too that's all alistair threw he just kind of stepped inside of it bang yeah yeah alistair was just i mean he was wide open in that it just it's just not the same guy not the same guy guy when, you know, he's not supplementing. First left miss, bro, you got to get out. Get out. Get out.

Spin, move. He changed his style. Remember he changed his style? Like when he did go natural, he changed his style and started moving a lot more. And he was training with Jackson Winklejohn, right? Wasn't he? Who? Alistair? Alistair. I think he was. Pretty sure he was. He was moving a lot more and he was training with Jackson Winklejohn right wasn't he cool Alistair I think he was pretty sure he was he was moving a lot more he was

trying to you know like to out point guys and yeah like when he fought Junior dos Santos and that was a good fight he just used a lot more movement he was just like more cautious different fighter styles make fights right that might work against one fighter but not against the other yeah honestly that should have been the approach that he took in and out moving like that's the approach he should have took to francis chop his legs sure chop at his legs first yeah for sure try to reach you wouldn't try to try to make him reach you don't let him catch you coming because there you got caught coming to him. You know what I'm saying? Like, nah, bro.

And then, like, just a, I'm not, I've never been a fan of the... Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's weird. It seemed like he was just like a little tentative in that fight, like just feared of that power, just aware, hyper aware of that power. But in being scared of it,

he put himself right in the line to get hit with it bad, like clipped bad. That Francis, like the Francis that beat Steve Bane in the second fight, I would have loved to seen him against anybody that ever lived, including Fedor in his prime, all those guys in their prime. Francis was just so ferocious and anytime he touched you, you were doomed.

He would have blocked, you put him in the early days and have he blocks a lot of dudes don't win a title yeah a lot of dudes don't want a title they don't even get close yeah yeah no he's next level that's why i was very upset when he didn't re-sign with the ufc i'm very happy for him if he gets that giant payday. If he gets a big – they're talking about him and Deontay Wilder now. I read that today. Talking about him and Deontay Wilder in a boxing match. That would be violent. It would be violent, yeah.

And, you know, Deontay can be hit, but Deontay hits people. Deontay hits hard, bro. I'm talking about trying to find your equal. You found him. Yeah. That last knockout he had looked like a jab. Moving away. Moving away.

Moving away. Bink. And the dude's stiff. Stiff as a board. He's got that gift of God. It's like when he knocked out Luis Ortiz, like whoo. Stiff touch. Just right to the forehead.

Blop. And you see like Ortiz on the ground going what the fuck he hits guys and it's like they've never been hit like that before you can see the look in their eyes

only Tyson Fury he was I don't know how he got up like the Undertaker just sits up and then won the rest of the round

won the rest of the fight yeah crazy crazy and then you know the rematch and then the third fight the fight yeah crazy crazy and then you know the the rematch and then the the third fight the third fight he got hurt real bad you know and and dionte clipped him perfect with right hand you see the fat ripple through his whole body when he got hit it's like

boom and slow-mo you see it ripple all the way down to his love handles from the impact that's the kind of power dionte has yeah Yeah, Deontay is nasty, bro. Greatest one-punch knockout artist in the history of the heavyweight division, I think. I don't think there's anybody that has greater one-punch knockout power because you're talking about a guy whose entire career was knockout wins. Only Stiverne

made it to the decision and then he fucked him up in the rematch. Rematch, bro, yeah. Bad. The way he blocked like this was just not what I would recommend for like somebody punching like Deontay. It's just, bro. Yeah. You're just holding still and lining up a frame for him to just bop you.

Yeah, you're still getting jostled by those shots. Even if your hands are up like this, if he's hitting full blast on that hand, it's bang. It's still rattling your skull. Yeah. That was one of the things that you did with Glover. When Glover blocked that head kick, it didn't matter. It didn't matter because it's still blasting through. But that was the setup.

That was how I wanted it. That's why I moved the way that I did. You know, you notice I was moving him. So I'm moving, moving him. And then I pop a jab or I'd just look low. I just gave him that little look low, bang, just stick, just put the leg up, look low. Let your leg up.

Is that something you've been incorporating more into your game, the head kicks? The head kick, the leg, the left leg kick, head kick, body kick was the first weapon I had walking in. That was the one thing I knew I could beat. If you go back and you watch my first amateur fight, it's on YouTube. I knocked him out with a head kick.

Really? Yeah, knocked him out with a head kick. Four months in the training? That was six weeks. Six weeks in the training? Yeah, about six to eight weeks. Wow. Yeah, I knocked him out but I hit him I hit him and draw here he kind of stumbled I hit him again and

then bang right off of that boop left so that's always been one of your big weapons yeah it's a it's a giant weapon to have guys who don't throw head kicks it's like man you're you're missing out on just an enormous part of the game. Those are the dudes who don't throw them. They can't. Yeah. Can't quite get the leg up there. Which is crazy.

Like, hey, man, maybe you should work on that. Yeah. I mean, if you're in a business where people are kicking you in the head and you can't kick them in the head, that seems kind of crazy. I mean, when a world championship fight is won that way, like Leon Edwards and Kamaru Usman or like Jon Jones versus DC, there's something about a head kick, man. I mean, that is the great equalizer.

Yeah, because you've got to deal with it the right way. You can't just put it like that. Now, as far as timing, yeah, he got his arm. There was no way for you to block a flush, clean head kick with one arm. No, no. Even two arms are still getting rattled. Yeah. Yeah, especially your kick. There was no way for you to block a flush clean head kick with one arm. No. No. Even two arms are still getting rattled. Yeah.

Yeah. Especially your kick. That was like you were setting it up beautiful. Yeah. Just technique. Wow. Turn it over right when it needs to be turned. And you landed it multiple times too.

It's like he didn't make an adjustment. You kept landing that shot. He made an adjustment. He did. He made an adjustment. The thing was is just I went in adjustment. He did. He made an adjustment. The thing was, it's just, I went in there, he made, he adjusts, I adjust it. And then I eventually work my way back to it. And he wasn't ready for it.

You know, you can be like, all right, yeah, I'm not going to let him, he caught me with a head kick. I'm not going to let him hit me with a head kick. All right, now he's punching you. Now he's throwing straights down the middle and he's hitting you in the face. Now he's throwing straights and he's hitting you to the body. Now he's chopping your legs. Now he's kicking you in the body. Now's throwing straights and he's hitting you to the body now he's chopping your legs now he's kicking you in the body now he's fainting you know i mean he's fainting and he's catching you with combinations now all of a sudden now now now uh you you land a shot all right now i gotta try to press forward all right step step side head

kick bang now you get hit with the same head kick again. It was like, damn. I thought I had to adjust. Am I going to be able to? The doubt starts to seep in. Yeah. You know? And I understand that. I understand how. I understand.

I've gone through a lot of things in training, a lot of things over. I've had total, in adventure, I think, in adventure, I had like 13 fights. So I have dealt with a lot of different things so I kind of I got the idea of how to process things how people think whenever they whenever they go through it like getting hit hard which is still why I don't understand how Glover didn't pause at all because I've been hit hard like I've been like hit hard it's like who hit you the hardest in the UFC? In the UFC? Darko Stosik. Yeah?

Probably. Yeah. Yeah. What did he hit you with? Tiago, his fist. He hit me with an overhand. An overhand like a looping hook like a yeah bow like one of those um yeah probably well hit me the most probably but santos santos santos santos his heart he hits, but the only punch that really, like, it didn't hurt,

but it did damage, like the one that swole my eye out. You know, but he hits hard. I'm pretty sure he hits hard if he lands flush on you. The only thing is he don't put himself in position to, like, stick you. So, like, whenever he's hitting, if you notice, like, whenever i was going through him he was landing those i'm still i'm rolling you can roll them all you can roll his shots off and i think that's why glover survived against him because he was glover up yeah no he was a dangerous dude to this day he gave john jones some serious trouble and john john destroyed his

legs yeah he he needed double knee surgery after the fight both of his knees were destroyed i seen He gave Jon Jones some serious fucking trouble. And Jon destroyed his legs. Yeah. He needed double knee surgery after the fight. Both of his knees were destroyed. I seen him in a wheelchair. Yeah, crazy. Jon just destroyed his knees. A sidekick to the knees.

You know what I mean? Jon is so good at that. One of his knees, they messed up. He tried to kick Jon, and Jon slid back and made a mess, and he hyperextended his leg. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he fucked up both knees in one fight,

and really was never the same again. I think he wins. I think he wins in PFL. You think so? I think he wins. Yeah. Is that where he's going now? That's where he went.

He did go there. He went to the PFL. PFL's interesting. It's interesting to have more options. I wonder how much longer they can keep putting out that cash. You know, I don't know how much money they're making. I haven't seen them in a packed arena. I don't think they have a packed arena.

I don't think they can sell a packed arena. Maybe they can sell if they get some bigger name fighters. But, you know, Bellator pulls off big places now and they get big numbers on television. They got a million for Fedor, Ryan Bader that's a lot you know a million people watching you that's a lot and so it's good it's good for everybody the more there's real competition how do you watch Bellator fight you can watch it on CBS you can watch it on Showtime yeah yeah I have it on my DirecTV to DirecTV looks for it whenever it comes up and it records it for me.

But, yeah, I'm not as big a Bellator fan as maybe I should be, but I'm aware of there's guys over there that are real talented. Yeah. Like Johnny Elbin, that middleweight dude. Yeah, that's my dog. Shout out to Johnny. He's legit. He's fucking legit.

We went down to Florida for my boy Sabah's birthday. I met Johnny down there. He's a cool dude. Yeah, he's a cool dude, and he's focused. He's focused and driven. He's one of those guys that I got my eye on. I'm like, that guy, he could be a champion in any organization. He's got that kind of quality to him.

And a real good wrestler. Yeah. Real good wrestler. And fucking striking is nasty too man when he beat gay guard musashi i think that opened up a lot of people's eyes because gay guard is a fucking assassin gay guard is a smooth criminal that dude is good and when he beat gay guard i was like wow and he beat gay guard on the feet too like that was that was a big fight for for johnny and i'm I look at him

like that like his because gay guard after gay guard had beat Chris Weidman and gay guard left and went over to to Bellator I was like wow like oh yes I guess we're not gonna see him in the UFC anymore that sucks because I think gay guard I would have loved to see in gay guard versus Anderson or rather of gay guard versus Israel I would have loved to seen him versus Robert Whittaker. I would have loved to seen him. You know, he's... He's a lot of fun matchups to get into.

Yeah. And he was right at that level where I'm thinking he might be the best in the world. He was like right there, and then he went over and won the Bellator title and eventually lost to Elbin. You know, it's good to have these other organizations though i really i think that's it's great for the fighters it's great for the fighters to have financial options yeah i mean uh i don't like i said i don't know where francis is going what i'm genuinely hopeful i

really hope francis goes get some big money boxing match get get successful. Then we figure out who wins versus Jon Jones and Cyril Ghosn, and then they offer him what he's worth and then have him come back. And maybe they do like another world title fight with Francis coming back. I think the market and the landscape can change a little bit with Jake Paul signing with the PFL. Very interesting. It brings eyes, it brings attention, which brings money. Yeah. He might be the only guy that can really waken up

people to the PFL. Because he's so popular in mainstream. What if Francis comes too? Oh yeah. You have Francis tonight. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You know what I'm saying? But who's he going to fight? Who do they have over there to fight? I'm like, Francis versus Jon Jones is the biggest fight you can make.

That's especially if Jon Jones can beat Cyril Ghosn. If Jon Jones beats Cyril Ghosn, that is the biggest heavyweight fight that's ever existed. Who's on the way out the door in the UFC? Yeah, that's the thing. Who is on the way out the door? Who's on their way out? But this guy's on the way up, like Sergei Pavlovich. That dude's a bad motherfucker. I was shocked by what he did to Ty.

I was shocked, bro. Crazy, right? I was like, man, what? I know. Patient, calculating. And so accurate. Accurate. So good.

Yeah, bro. Yeah, he's legit as fuck. He's good. And kind of flying under the radar with mainstream people. I can't bet against him anymore because I bet against him the last couple fights. Not bet. He's not betting. Gambling's illegal for a first.

It's illegal. Yes. We believe in following rules here. We follow all the rules. Well, you could bet back then, right? The gambling thing is a recently illegal thing yeah that uh yeah anytime i don't like picked against him i was wrong yeah i was wrong it's hard to tell until he starts beating really good people right like this he doesn't look like

he moves his he's actually pretty quick yeah for him in I mean for for heavyweight yeah I think this was a fight I think I had Alistair in this fight oh yeah this was the Alistair fight he ends up piecing him up it was a good fight and this was a fight

where no one knew who Pavlovich was yeah and Alistair took him down wrestling Alistair yeah Alistair hammer fisted him look at this

Alistair had him in fucking serious trouble here look at this that's it so Alistair hammer-fisted him. Look at this. Alistair had him in fucking serious trouble here. Look at this. That's it. So Alistair stopped him. And then that was a lot of people's understanding of who he is. And then he goes from that and then starts going on a fucking tear. Wrestling Alistair.

When Alistair started wrestling people, bro, that was a bad dude, bro. Well, Alistair was a dangerous motherfucker, man. Oh, yeah. But whenever he started wrestling, though, like grappling, like actually taking dudes down, putting them on their backs and laying off that, that was, that was. Yeah, look, the guy has one of the most incredible careers in combat sports. He fought in Pride.

He fought in Dream. He was the Dream heavyweight champion. He won the K-1 Grand Prix. He won the Strikeforce title. Comes over to the UFC and, you know, becomes one of the best heavyweights in the world in the UFC, too. And now he's back at glory kickboxing. He just beat Badr Hari in a kickboxing fight. It's like, I mean, Alistair's been doing the damn thing for 20-plus years at a world-class level.

It's pretty impressive. Yeah. It's like heavyweight glover yeah in a lot of ways yeah but he's just not as old

he just got his start very young remember when Alistair first started fighting he was so skinny yeah he was so skinny this is twig

but he was ripped though he's always been ripped as shit though yeah but he was fighting at 205 Chuck's always been ripped as shit, though. Yeah. But he was fighting at 205. Chuck Liddell knocked him out at 205. And he was beating Chuck up.

And Chuck caught him against the ropes. But again, at heavyweight, for me, Ngannou versus the winner of Jones and Cyril Ghosn, that's the biggest fight you can make. And that's what I really hope. I hope Francis goes and gets some big money, boxing match. And God forbid went if he wins we'll probably never see him again probably not if he wins he just probably be raking in the cash next thing you see Francis is covered in diamonds yeah look he could he could do it The guy's main skill is his striking. So if he wants to box, I mean, you're dealing with a guy who's 265 pounds natural.

And he has to cut a little bit of weight to make the 265-pound weight limit in the UFC. There's no weight limit in boxing. So he doesn't have to cut anything. Francis had to cut to make weight? Sometimes Francis was over 265. I wouldn't say cut, I would say like watch his food. But you know, I talked to Eric Nixick at one point in time, he was over 290.

Damn. That's a big fella, that's a lot of horsepower behind those punches. Yeah, it was a big dude. Boom, boom, bang. Man, bro. Hitting back some Tyson Fury, bro. I don't think it was a big down. Ooh, boom, boom, bang. Man, bro. Him boxing Tyson Fury, bro, I don't think that's a bad idea.

I think personally it's a bad idea. It's a good idea if you want a lot of zeros in your bank account. Right, right, right, but like... But to be humiliated. Yes. Yeah. I hurt your brain.

Yeah. Because... He said he could have weighed 307 here. Oh my God. Jeez. Was that after said he could have weighed 307 here. Oh my God. Jeez. Was that after his knee surgery? August.

It might have been after his knee surgery. Yeah. So it's probably, you know. I mean, I'd rather fight that for instance than

in shape ready and on point for instance. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. But no, Tyson's a big dude. He's big.

He's giving up the size. 6'9". And not only that, he knows how to box. Yeah. He knows the science behind the punch. He's big. He's giving up the size. 6'9". And not only that, he knows how to box. He knows the science behind the pucks. He knows the science behind the counters. He knows the science behind the setups. That's not something.

Then you're coming into his world. That's not something to play with, bro. And he's going to keep you on the end of that stick for as long as he can. And he's going to box you up. And he's going to clinch you whenever he can. That's what I was about to say. As soon as you try to wind up big, you try to land big, he's's going to box you up, and he's going to clinch you whenever he can. That's all I'm about to say. As soon as you try to wind up big, you try to land big, he's just going to tie you up.

Yeah. And there is no, oh, we'll fight to get loot. There is none of that. It's just a restart. And then with Francis, the other thing is, like, if he fights someone who's a lesser-named opponent and loses that fight, that's terrible. So it's almost like he's got to jump right into the deep end of the pool.

But I think right now Tyson Fury is concentrating on the Usyk fight, and that seems like it's going to happen. So if Tyson Fury fights Usyk, that kind of leaves Francis in limbo. And that's why I think they're talking about Deontay Wilder. See if that is real Wilder said it in an interview he said he wants to do a one-on-one and there I don't think when God has responded to that yet okay so he's just putting it out there I know there was some talk I think there was some talk of Dillian White too there's some talk like some other top flight heavyweights

but that's the problem is like those guys are fucking good man like if francis get exposed in one of those fights and you know can't box with those guys then all that big money goes away because the big money is francis is the destroyer you show his highlight reel the alistair knockout he didn't want to do yeah the boxing thing yeah look i get it from their perspective. I don't know if that was the major sticking point. I'm not privy to the negotiations, but in my mind, that's the best heavyweight in the world. When the guy beats Cyril Ghosn handily with one knee,

and then you see Cyril Ghosn fighting in his next fight for the title, I want to see the Cyril Ghosn fight. Look, Cyril Ghosn versus Tai Tui Vassa was amazing. Cyril Ghosn is a heavyweight he moves different than any other heavyweight anybody light on his feet he throws that weird

front kick off that front leg it's like a stepping man it's nasty too that's from his lead leg yup so it's like

he's standing sideways stabbing you with it and he twists with it when he throws it like he's standing totally sideways he's standing this you with it, too. And he twists with it when he throws it. He's standing totally sideways. He's standing this way, and he's bouncing around, and he twists and stabs you with that front leg. Hee-hee.

Hee-hee. You and your kidney. Yeah, he stabs dudes, and his movement and his agility at heavyweight is different than everybody else's. He moves like a middleweight or a lightweight i mean or uh like a light heavyweight he's he's much lighter on his feet than someone who's you know in the heavyweight division mostly it's different he's a problem he's a problem and he's a big dude yeah he's a big dude so the the the fact john won't be able to

to just bully him he ain't gonna be able to just bully him. He won't be able to big boy him. I'm interested to see that. Guy has no problem chopping at John's legs. Yeah. I think for a good portion, maybe even in the early part, we might see a leg kicking match. Could be.

Could be. I don't know if John wants to kick with that guy, though. No, but that might be all he can get to for, you know what I mean? Well, Francis took him down repeatedly. That's where I go, hmm. Because if Jon Jones can wrestle you, like, Jon's wrestles on another level. See, and there's a difference. And this is the difference where people made between Santos and the Glover with me, right?

Is Jon Jones as strong as Francis Ngannou? No. No. You gotta factor that in. You gotta factor that in. Glover wasn't as strong as Thiago Santos. Now, technically skill for skill, I'd give the

grappling to Glover, right? But Santos was strong as shit. So it took a different type of, like, resistance and, like, defense to, you know what I mean, to fight him off from his takedowns. You know what I'm saying? I had to actually strain and be strong with him, you know, which took some energy, took some things out of me that I wasn't expecting because I was expecting us to come out and bang.

Right. Glover was making technical moves, so it's all right, this step to the next step to the next step type deal. That's not going to strain you too much. Right. It can, especially if you get behind.

But that's different though. Those are two different styles of grappling. So that really don't work. Like, oh, he was able to do this, so he's going to be able to... I don't... Jones isn't as strong as Francis.

So a lot of those positions that he was getting, where he was getting Cyril gone down, he was just... He just bullied him. Just tossed him. You know what I'm saying? I don't think Jon Jones can do that. Also, you've got to think that Cyril Ghosn down, he just bullied him. Just tossed him. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I don't think Jon Jones can do that. Also, you got to think that Cyril Ghosn going into that fight with Francis probably didn't expect grappling. Yeah.

Cyril Ghosn probably thought this was going to be a stand-up fight. I believe it. I did. I expected Francis to grapple a little more. Did you? I did. Just because Cyril Ghosn moves too much. He moves too much.

How is she going to get a hold of him and try to, you know what I mean, slow the fight down to your pace? You got to grind him. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's true. That's one way of looking at it.

But, you know, Francis said that during the sparring exchanges that they had when they were training together in the gym, he hurt Cyril. Training isn't the same thing because, you know, you're not trying to be a dick to your partner. You're not trying to hurt your partner. you're just trying to get looks and things like that so like training is not the same thing well luckily now you know it's interesting where we're at now because fighters are so much more scientific in the way they train but if you go back to the early days of mma yeah that's how they did it dudes just fought they just fought in the gym

they knocked each other out all the time that's why sean's trickling yeah well sean's trickling that guy spars hard yeah he keeps asking he keeps asking me if i want to if uh i want to get some work in i think we might have to get some man yeah he's an interesting cat he's peculiar yeah he's definitely peculiar his style is so different too that's a very i like the way he fights like watch the, he's definitely peculiar. His style's so different, too. That's a very odd style. I like the way he fights. I like watching him fight. He's funny as hell. Yeah, he's funny.

I hate his boots. His boots? His fucking boots are terrible. What kind of boots is he wearing? I don't know. They look terrible. Right. I've never seen his boots.

Throw your boots away, Sean. What's wrong with his boots? What are they like? I don't know, bro. They just look like... Those things? Yeah, bro. They got to go, bro.

Why is he wearing those boots in his fighter picture? That's so weird. And it's Vegas, bro. It's Vegas, bro. It's hot as shit. Why do you have boots? Yeah. For no reason should you live in Vegas and own a pair of boots.

Yeah, are you working on a construction site? Why are you boots on like that? Are you hiking? Are you working on a construction site? Why are your boots on like that? Are you hiking? He's misappropriating construction workers. Yeah, his big victory over Imamov, that was a big fight.

Big fight. And, you know, gutted it out. Short term, you know, like didn't have a lot of time to prepare for that fight. That was the one after New Year's, right? Before, I wanted year's right before i was the last fight of the year yeah i mean no no he fought the fame headline the the last and the last one last year and the first one of this year yeah so that was so yeah so that was the beginning that was january that's right you're right yeah that was the beginning but he just fought like two weeks before that. And you let me fight a little heavier. I would agree most people could probably do that. That's true too, right?

Most professional fighters, most top-level fighters, two weeks after you fought, you're not that bad off the shape. Even if you've been eating like shit, you're still sitting pretty good. Who was Iman Vov supposed to fight? Calvin Gaslam? Yes. Yes. That's a way different fight too right because calvin's shorter yeah i mean he leans a little forward he's a little bit more boxy he comes to you he comes to you a little more whereas sean fights really long and like kind of awkward and gives you different like angles and calvin's

one of those dudes i had a conversation with calvin once i was like calvin you could be a world champion at 170. You just got to get your shit together. You just got to lose that weight because, like, he's such a tank. You know, and at 170, like, he would be lean and ripped and has all these advantages. Same size. Yeah. That's the only thing about 185.

Those dudes are too tall. They're just too big. Yeah. They're too big for him to, you know. When you see Pajero, I mean, he's so big. And, you know, Kelvin's my size. Like, it doesn't make sense that he's fighting at 185 pounds. When you see who, I don't see nobody, Joe. Oh, you don't see him?

I don't see him, Joe. When you guys are staring at each other after the fight, that was a weird moment, right? We weren't even staring at each other, literally. I walked up, Glover went over to shake my team's hand. I walked up to shake his hand. The whole thing that him getting mad about the, uh, like the, uh, the whole, what are you going to say about knocking? What about knocking me out?

Dude, I said that shit months ago. And yeah, I said it. I said this shit. I believe this shit. You come up to 205. You sign a contract to fight me. I plan on knocking you the fuck out period you know i don't i don't know he's like he's like all like well maybe he'll should be the backup for me and

me is he fighting all that like bro if you want to fight me like for real for real come up go ahead get go go ahead vacate your belt do whatever you to do. Whatever you want to do. And make it happen, bro. Make it happen. I'm not, man. I'm not dugging nobody, bro. I'm here for all the smoke. I want to fight everybody. I want those fights. You know, I don't think he gets past Izzy this time.

You know what I mean? I think Izzy wins this one. Really? You know, just, bro, he was winning. He was winning. He was winning in pretty good fashion. He was winning and he had him hurt real bad at the end of that first round real bad if that fight if you got 30 seconds more in that fight he might not make it out of that first round 10. if he if he if he if that uh if he throws that

hook that he was gonna throw and that lands the fight's over yeah interesting rematch interesting that's april right that's mi Miami. That's going to be wild. Man, if I got any, like, my only thing I would do differently, then I'm going to definitely 100% not telling them how to fight or anything like that. You know what I'm saying? Don't focus so much on the kicks. Just box his ass.

Alex can't box. He can't box. Box his ass, and you knock him out easy. You think so? Yeah. Really? Interesting. The problem is Alex is kicking.

He's always jumping with those fucking legs. People are kicking me. People thought I could only box for all this time. So I'm going to be honest. If you stay on the right angle and you press that box of reins enough, kicking don't help you that's going on one leg if I'm in range to put these hands on you

and you go up on one leg, you just did me a favor I'm saying a little too much but I can say this and I'm still gonna whoop his ass if it ever happens so if they fight again and Alex, even if Alex loses, if he loses, maybe that's a good reason for him to go up to light heavyweight. But also, if it's a close fight, he's going to want a rubber match.

He's going to want a rubber match. I mean, he beat Izzy for the title in the fifth round, stopped him in the fifth round. But do you do that, though, if he didn't defend the belt? Like, what's up with all this like like that'd be like if i lost like if i if i fought my next fight and then like it was a close fight and i lost do i get a rematch just because the fight was close like whatever happened to it to like i mean earning the rematch like how establishing the reign showing like i think rematch rematch most champs that get instant rematches was because it's like,

all right, this dude's the best in the world. Maybe he just had an off night. Well, I think it's because we want to see it again. Because it was so close, we want to see, like, me as a person who loves watching, like, really skillful guys go at it, I want to see who makes the adjustments and who doesn't. Like Max Holloway and Volkanovski. It's a perfect example.

The first fight was real close. Volkanovski. It's a perfect example. The first fight was real close. Volkanovski comes on and wins the second fight. Also pretty close. The third fight, no. But he fought

zombie in between. Yes. True, true. Good point. So it's like somebody else got a shot. You know, he got a little

taste of a different flavor, if you will. You know, and I don't know. Well, shit. Well, the fact that Izzy has completely wiped out the entire weight class might. Oh, man, shit, it might happen. It might happen.

When I think of it like that, it does make sense. It makes sense. Well, Robert Whittaker, Robert Whittaker in that last fight with Izzy, that was very close. It was close. Very close. And that's a great example of a guy who got destroyed in the first fight and made all the adjustments. Made great adjustments.

Beat Kananir, who's fucking dangerous as shit. Dangerous as shit. And then went on and gave Izzy a really fucking tough fight. That was a really tough fight. I liked that fight a lot. I think Whittaker is a dangerous fight for Pajero, too. I think he is, too. Very dangerous. I think Whittaker is a dangerous fight for um pajero too i think he is too i think i think whitaker is actually a more dangerous fight than his years because one because rob actually does

box a little more and two um the angles the angles and the angles of the movement and the mix in the mixing the way he mixes in the grapple he almost fights like a karate style light on his feet it's like a like almost like a bobbing in and out. And bop, bop, bop, bop. And then it faints. And the minute you buy something, he sell you. He sell you. He give you what you pay for.

He give you what you pay for. And he blitzes you. And I think he's in a different level now. But he blitzes you at an angle. He blitzes you off at an angle. So it's pretty. This is not taking anything away from Izzy, but I feel like Robert was in a funk then.

I feel like he wasn't fighting to the best of his abilities. and he just fought right into Izzy's hands in that fight. And also, that's Izzy putting it on him. I think Izzy's presence kind of stuns and shocks people. Izzy may look like on TV, he may look skinny, but in person, Izzy's a pretty big dude. He's tall and he hits hard and he's accurate as you know what i'm saying he's solid like we like skinny skinny don't mean if it's just straight dense muscle right you know what i'm saying so like he's he's got he's got some he's got some size to him so he does have like some like oh okay because rob is like what six one yes you know i

mean like this is my size yeah yeah he's he's a big tall, you know me like mm-hmm. This is my size. Yeah. Yeah, he's but he's a big tall, dude You know, I thought it was interesting when he fought Jan Boho vich. He decided to not even gain any weight Just decided to fight That was a mistake But honestly yeah, I started catching his timing with someone like the um With the stand-up too like he started killing that little i think it was like a jab like a little little quick little pop like a little pop in jab he started laying in that to disrupt his timing and disrupt whenever izzy was coming forward

so he had some success with that but um yeah man uh izzy definitely should have gained some weight for that fight because then at the end, whenever you started to get tired, and now the main thing that you had was speed because I believe Izzy was landing the hook. Lead hook, lead, lead, left hook. Was it lead, left hook, or switch, right hook? One of those sides, he was landing that on Blachowicz, and he was landing it pretty solid. Then I just went to the wrestling. And when Blachowicz, and he was landing it pretty solid.

Then I just went to the wrestling. And when Blachowicz took him down, you see the size difference. Yeah. He was so much bigger. Yeah. But you see the size difference with Pajero, too. Pajero's way bigger. He's skinny, though.

He's thinner. He's pretty muscular. He's muscular, but he's taller, but he's thinner. For 185, yeah, he's like that. But you put him at 205, he's not like that. I think he's definitely the same height as Johnny Walker. Is he built like Johnny Walker? No.

No. No. Even when he's out of camp and he's like, oh, he walks around 220, he still looks relatively thin. In comparison to Johnny Walker. Johnny Walker's a real outlier in that light heavyweight division. Well, shit, he's still thin as opposed to anybody else in the 205 division. Pejeta is.

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting if he does that, if he gains more weight. Like, what does he decide to do? I mean, I don't know. I mean, he was talking about fighting Hamzat. You remember he said, I'll fight you at light heavyweight. Because Hamzat was like, you know, let's fight in Brazil. But he's like, look, I can't make the weight on short notice like that.

Which is interesting. Like, how much time does he need to make that weight? He's cutting a lot of weight. How much time has it been on average in between his fights? He's had some time. But, I mean, you know, I don't know like how big he got after the Izzy fight.

He might have just like ate like a pig and just realized like, hey, it's going to take me a few weeks just to get this weight off. I'm not sure,

you know. But it's, it's a fascinating rematch. And, you know, Izzy's just so intelligent and he's so clever and that he doesn't,

I mean, he's not taking this fight unless he thinks he can beat him again. And he's going to try to figure out some way. I think he does. Honestly, I think Izzy, if Izzy kind of like a little bit more of a Volk approach, just, all right, I'm going to be faster, let you open up first and then make you pay for whatever you do and they just kind of shut down anything that he wants to do like from the beginning like and play it from that type of way Wow mix it in maybe like maybe like the threat of like a take

down the threat of like a tie up and things like that that's different yeah well he definitely won the grappling exchanges yeah and he had him in bad trouble when he had his back and he was beating him up. And, you know, that was unexpected. Interesting to see Izzy become a grappler too. Yeah.

That's why, that's another thing. Like everybody thinks like, like, oh, Pieta is, Pieta will be, like,

bro, he can't grapple with me. He can't. Anybody thinks that I can't wrestle remember when y'all thought I couldn't grapple or couldn't get up from bottom it's like I'm excited bro

I'm really excited there's so many good fights for you man was this camp preparing for the title I know that you had brought in a nutritionist to work with you is that the first time you had brought in a nutritionist to work with you. Is that the first time you had done that? Yeah.

Yeah? What was that like? It was great, bro. It was a game changer. Yeah? He's a nutritionist and a personal chef. Ian Lari... I'm forgetting how to pronounce his last name.

Jamie will find it. Larios. I think it. Larios. I think it's Larios. Ian Larios. He comes in. He stays at my house. He cooks all my food. He makes everything for me.

I don't have to, like, all I got to do is just eat what he tells me. He puts it in front of me. Like, yo, eat this. And it's good food. Like, it's legitimate. Like, I got, like, pictures and stuff of itry ian larryos yeah chef to the world's top fighters and so uh like what was different in the way he was having you eat versus the way uh you you were eating previously i just i wasn't eating enough you know, in order to eat at a calorie deficit for me, to me,

you just ate less. You ate the right things, and then I just ate. I knew how to portion my things, you know. So, like, certain things that I ate, I knew what to eat, and I knew how to get my way to where I wanted to. And that's what I was doing. And granted, throughout the camp, I felt weak as shit, you know, just because I wasn't giving myself enough carbs, enough energy.

Sometimes for certain weeks, I'd just do a keto diet, and I wouldn't even eat carbs, you know just because i wasn't giving myself enough carbs enough energy sometimes on certain for certain weeks i just do a keto diet and i wouldn't even eat carbs you know um he came in i was like no you need carbs this is what you're gonna do and i never felt weak once during the camp real i felt tired i felt beat up a little bit you know a little wear and tear from from going from doing two days for a whole week but i never felt drained i never felt weak and i was a game and i was a game changer and what was the difference in terms of the types of foods that he was having you eat you said he added carbs but like what what were you eating i was bro i was eating everything i was eating eating steak. I think he made chicken wings once. He made like some, it's like he just made like, he made a bunch of different things.

Like some peru leg, he made like a peruvian dish, homemade like tater tots. You know, just different things. But the way he makes them and like the sauces he puts on them, it's almost like you're eating at a restaurant. It's almost like you're eating at a five-star restaurant every meal. There it is. Look at that. Yeah. He puts a little drizzle on the plate and everything.

Oh, yeah, bro. And that's how he plated it. That's how he was plating it to me, like, every time. So it's exciting. So you're looking forward to it? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. If I could have got him to come and stay with me now,

he'd still be with me. You know what I mean? Like, I'd rather eat the food. Like, it's like that. It's like that, but it's all good. It's some of the best food I've ever eaten. I was full. I ate, took a nap, I ate. It was just it, bro.

So he's taking into consideration the amount of calories that you're burning, what amount of calories you're going to get from each individual meal, the protein competition. Everything, everything. And he makes everything from scratch. So he gets everything fresh. Everything is organic. He makes all the sauces himself.

He makes all the everything. So you think you'll be using him for future camps too? I'll never do a camp without him. Wow. I'll never do another camp without him. That's interesting. Yeah. What a that's interesting yeah what a big change yeah and i'll bring i'm bringing him out even earlier next camp wow how many weeks was he with you for this um he's with me just under four weeks so when you think about um different things that you have added over the years um what about strength and conditioning like how much how much do

you do that and how much of it like fight specific training honestly this is last camp I didn't do any strength and conditioning really outside of maybe doing the skier and then like hitting doing like the bike just to like warm up and get my first few rounds to get a sweat going um I do a lot of fight specific things like I do a lot of rolling a. I do a lot of fight-specific things. I do a lot of rolling, a lot of drilling, a lot of sparring. Really? Yeah.

No strength and conditioning? I didn't do any strength and conditioning. You had great fucking cardio. Yeah. Crazy. Well, I still work. My strength and conditioning was me going hard rounds, fresh body.

So one of the things we'll do is this, right? So my job was to defend takedowns and be able to defend a relentless takedown attack. So what we'll do, we'll do minute intervals. So my grappling coach and main training partner, Justin Andrews, he'll come in, he'll come in. He'll start in. We'll start in on a single leg. All right, I have to defend the single leg, defend the takedown.

Defend the takedown. He's going to go as hard as he can for a minute. Once that minute is up, we got a fresh body coming in. Once that minute is up, fresh body coming in, fresh body. So I'll have about like five or six dudes lined up, and we just fresh body every minute. You know? So that's how we do it.

We go like that, and we'll do that for maybe like an hour. And then I go over to striking. Then I go and I'll strike for like an hour. In the same session? Mm-hmm. Really? Yeah. Then I'll leave, go home, recover, or go to PT or whatever, get my recovery in, eat,

probably catch a nap before I go back and I do it again. Same thing. Same thing. Work my grappling. Not the exact same thing, but work in grappling, work in different parts of grappling, drilling, things like that, fresh body, and then rolling, sparring, fresh body, even sparring. So even when I'm sparring, well, we'll go.

Depending on how many guys I got, you know, you'll go a minute, you'll go like a minute and a half, then fresh body. Minute and a half, minute and a half, fresh body. Minute and a half, fresh body. So it's always somebody else fresh, so they can always be on point. Then I just, you I gotta work my I gotta adjust it's interesting the the different approaches when it comes to like how much time should you be spending on doing strength and conditioning work versus fight specific work and some people like yourself that just get all their conditioning done through fight specific work because that's what George

St. Pierre turned to later in his career like George early on career, he was doing a lot of strength and conditioning training. And then somewhere along the line, he realized that efficiency was most important and that you get that from training. Yeah. And you get that fight-specific cardio from doing the grappling rounds, doing the sparring rounds, doing the rounds in the bag. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And then everything, I always put myself at a disadvantage. So like we'll get through that.

We'll get through that session. Now the next session is I got to start from the bottom. And sometimes it'll be sitting back up against the wall and they got your legs. You got to go from there. You know, like I already got your legs completely pinned, so now I have to get up from there. And then the next minute, another fresh guy is coming to get on my legs to restart me in the same way.

You know, that's how we do. We work that we work. We work all positions, work all facets of where we wanna be proficient at. And do it to you, so you gotta be able to do it when y'all both full strength the full guy coming and when you get tired and he's still got more more than you he's fresh you know you still got to be able to do it now what about in between camps do you do any like weight lifting

kettlebells any yoga anything in between camps to just like sort of strengthen areas and you know prevent injuries or anything along those lines i haven't been that's something that i uh that uh we are going to going to add i had i had a strength and conditioning coach actually for the jimmy crew and the johnny walker fight you know um just kind of got away from it because like the last year i've really been dealing with like a lot of injuries like my body's been beat up more the last year than it's ever been. What kind of injuries? Man, all type of things, bro.

Elbows, shoulders, knees, ankles. It was really like the Tiago Santos fight, too. I didn't really do any strength and condition. I did pretty much no strength and conditioning, then minimal, even really hard anything for the Santos fight just because I was so beat up. My body was so beat up that I just had to make sure I could get to the fight and feel good, feel healthy in the fight. So that was the main focus for that one. And it showed a little bit. I got a little tired in the fight and that was the main focus for that one so and it showed a little bit you know i did get it i got a little tired in the fight you know and things like that but you know i still had enough

how what i needed to finish the fight late in the fourth round so that just let me that was also a thing that just let me know like all right bro you got it so just make sure you put in the work put in and then you really got it, even under less than ideal circumstances. You know, with injuries and dealing with stuff, you can still win against a top guy. Yeah. Yeah. That was the whole laying back, I belong. Yeah.

Yeah. So that was a big moment for you. Yeah. You know, I don't complain and I don't make excuses or nothing like that. So, like, most of the stuff I deal with, I just don't say anything. You know, I just deal with it because I really truly got the mentality of feeling who cares. You know what I'm saying? You need that.

Yeah. That's a giant advantage because guys who fret over every little thing that's going wrong and it starts spiraling, they go in a downward spiral in their head like, oh, I'm injured. I wish I was not injured. If you can just deal and just get to the fight, that's a giant advantage. Yeah, man. That was the main thing I do.

It's just push through. What are you doing for recovery? Do you get massages? Do you do cold plunge? Do you do saunas? Yeah, I get massages. Like this last time with Glover, I felt good. Everything went good.

I have a teammate. She's gone to school. She's a licensed massage therapist, does health massage, sports massage, and things like that. So she would come in. She came in in the mornings, and she was massaging me before training. And then after that, I'd leave here, and I'd go to physical therapy. I'd be there for a couple hours, and then ice baths. What do you go to physical therapy for?

What do you go to physical therapy for? Injuries. Just little weird stuff. You've got all the shit you're dealing with. So you're just dealing with it while you're in the middle of camp, which is less than ideal, right? Yeah. Yeah.

And you're doing cold plunges and saunas? I do the cold plunge whenever I go out to Vegas. That's it? Yeah. We have a, what is it, the cryo? Yeah, cryotherapy. Those are great. what's it the cryo cryotherapy those are great i'm gonna i go cryo there i do ice bath here and there like honestly for the most part bro it's a fucking winter in michigan all you gotta do is just go outside that's true yeah get in your pool you know i'm saying put a bucket of water outside just go sit in that you ain't gotta put a bucket of water out

there just go out just go step out there. Just go step out there. In your underwear. You could be fully dressed. Go ahead and just step out there. You're going to knock some inflammation out. That's true. That's true. That's true. You could stand still in 30 minutes

outside with 30 degrees out in your underwear. Just stand still. You'd knock it all out man listen this dude's in mission i mean i live in grand rapids bro so you could be literally a blizzard you walk and just see a dude walking out in a t-shirt and some shorts they're so used to it yeah that's too used to it fam that's too used over here dude they had a rain. It was like 33 degrees, and it shut the whole fucking city down. It was like, what do we do? 33 degrees, freezing rain.

Freezing rain is very, very dangerous out. It's hilarious. I was like, dude, I grew up in Boston. This ain't shit. It's nothing. This is normal. You go to work. You ever came outside and not be able to find your car?

It's covered in snow. I don't know which one's your car. You go to work. You ever came outside and not be able to find your car? It's covered in snow. I don't know which one's your car. You have to go to the side panel. Nope, this one's blue. This one's white. Nope, where's my red car? Right. All right, this one's red.

You got to go to the back. A Toyota? A Toyota? And then you got to scrape the windshield. There's a lot.'s terrible shoveling yourself but it makes resilient people people that grow up in cold climates they are much more resilient people people that live in california they don't know shit about weather gotta endure man spot endurance yeah you gotta be you gotta be able to endure endure. Then we moved close enough to the school to where it was a walk,

but with no bus coming to get you. Oh. How many blocks? You ever woke up late for school and it's snowing outside? Bro. Yeah, you got to hurry up, rush. And before you even get out, you walk outside. They got to try to turn against the wind trying to

turn trying to hide from the wind people in warm weather they don't know about the wind those hawaii people they have no idea about that wind there's rain rain yes rain motherfucker you just walk your ass out and get wet a little bit fuck, what about three feet of snow in front of your door where you can't open your door to get outside? I had to, I think I posted it on my TikTok video. It snowed. It snowed, bro. I opened my garage, dude. It's like three feet of snow there.

So now I just got to get out there. It's like, hell no, hell no. It's a serious workout, snow shovel. It was. It was. Shit was heavy. Especially when it gets wet, that wet snow. It gets sticky.

That's why you got to get out and get it while it's coming down so it don't stick. Yeah. Because once it sticks, now you out there. For your cold plunge, just fucking lay down that snow that'll reduce the shit out of you shit out of some inflammation only thing is though even when you go inside it still don't stop and it hurts a little bit yeah it does are you uh do you take supplements you taking vitamins and minerals and here's you that's mysterious that's work too though that's a good work i was on my

way to training i was on my way to the gym to go do a uh go do a two hour uh grappling and striking workout hard work it's i i really firmly believe it makes better people i think people that grow up in cold climates they just they just can deal with more shit. There's used to it When you got a lot of money man when you start stacking up some big victories and you why the fuck am I free Why am I cold? Am I cold like I like I've been gone. I think I left. I've been gone for like, I think maybe like a week now. I've been home for like a week.

It's too cold, bro. Too cold. I've been in Vegas. I've been in AZ. I'm here. So nice. Hanging around a little bit here for a little while longer. Birds are chirping.

You know. Sunny weather. I heard a bird. I heard a bird. I heard a bird. It was outside my home. It was like, I was like, what is that? I was like, is that an alarm clock? I got to check on my phone. I was like, oh, it's a bird.

Real bird. That's nice. Go outside already and it's warm. I wore a T-shirt when I got here joe yeah i wore a t-shirt out the airport when i got here yeah it's like 70 degrees out it's beautiful do you think that you you have an advantage though and like suffering and being in cold weather like that i think it makes me a little i'm more used to dealing with adversity yeah 100 especially in a physical context because you know you got to think we play i played football so you know you play football

out in that in the cold one yeah yeah you know that's that's different yeah when you watch a football game it's just like a blizzard out like well that is a wild sport it makes me mad now. I wouldn't. I just, I get really judgmental, Joe. I get real judgmental. Then when they don't have any sleeves on, you think you're better than the rest of us? You think you're better? Oh, you got thicker skin. Okay.

Okay. I wonder how they do that. Like, dude, it's like literally coming out blizzard. They stand out there. Look like they smoke a 12 packs of cigarettes. No sleeves. No sleeves. Yeah.

No sleeves. Yeah. Like, come on, bro. This is Wisconsin, people. What do you have to prove? Yeah, look at this. What do you have to prove? No shirts. What do you, no shirts.

Hand warmers. Hand warmers. Gloves. Why don't they have shirts on? Like, what is the purpose of that? I don't know. Fucking badass. Just to let everybody know how jacked they on? Like, what is the purpose of that? I don't know. Fucking badass. Just to let everybody know how jacked they are?

They're ready to go. Ready to go. I'm not going to lie. Your muscles do look worse. You ever notice that whenever you get out of a cryo chamber? Yeah, you're jacked. Yeah, bro. If you actually feel, your muscles feel harder.

Yeah, but your whole body's like bleep. You look like Killmonger and shit with all the bumps on your body. Do you take supplements? Do you take vitamins on top of all that? Yeah, I take some vitamins. Do you have someone who monitors that for you and sets your schedule and what to take and when to take it? I kind of do it myself. But while Ian was there, he kind of stays on that as well. What kind of stuff are you taking?

Like multivitamins? Yeah, multivitamins, fish oil, krill oil, turmeric. I got some aminos. Yeah, pretty much that. Have you ever thought about doing a camp at the Performance Institute? I have. I have. I have. Because they have so many resources that are available.

It's a beautiful thing to have that thing for the UFC, where the UFC PI has this amazing setup with all these experts and great nutrition and all this equipment and great facilities to train at. Yeah. And I went in and got the test, you know, where they test out your body how far your neck turns how far you yeah this way how far you can bend this way can you touch your toes

can you touch you you know just all those things so i've been uh i've been i've gotten those and then at the end of that they give you like an assessment like hey your body has this is here you can lift here do this exercise yeah so they really i know i know how helpful and how deep they get down into everything so yeah it's about as scientific as you can get the fact that it's available to all fighters that they could just train there anytime they want that's giant yeah for sure that's huge so you've thought about it i've thought about it this is the being out there you know i got six kids bro so yeah yeah being all the way out there no you can't do that my kids and yeah yeah that's a bummer man when i know a lot of some guys they they go away and they do these mountain camps like they go to big bear or something like that

and they train for months away from their family i'm like i know that you don't want a distraction but how much does that take away from you as a person like how do you feel when you're up there like how much do you miss your family yeah i mean i think while you're do you feel when you're up there? How much do you miss your family? I think while you're busy, you're not really distracted. But then whenever you stop doing stuff and then it'll be something small, like somebody else sees their kid or you see a kid or you see something like,

oh, my kid might like that or something like that. And you just start missing them. Yeah. The life of a fighter. It's not an easy road, my friend, but you're on one of the best paths that you can get. World motherfucking champion. Jamal Hill. No matter what happens, they can't take that from you.

Man, not the town. Not the city. Not the county. Not the state. Not the country. not the county, not the state, not the country, not the continent, but the world. The whole planet.

The whole planet. The whole planet. And if you're the UFC champion, you're the real champion. There's a lot of champions out there. Best in the world. That's the best in the world. Jamal Hill, you fucking made it.

That's crazy. Well, listen, man, thank you very much for being here. I'm a fan, and I'm really looking forward to seeing your title defenses and seeing you continue to chase excellence. It's beautiful. Thank you. I appreciate you having me, man.

My pleasure. Been trying to get in here with you for a minute, Joe. We're here. I thought the first time we was going to be in the same room, I thought it would have been on Fear Factor. Because back whenever you were a kid, you broke in the hood, you watch on Fear Factor you know because back whenever you were you a kid you broke in the hood you watch a Fear Factor you like hmm that bug really ain't that bad I can use I can use I can use $50,000 yeah I can use $50,000 well this is even sweeter do it oh yeah definitely

thank you sir I appreciate you, brother. Appreciate you. All right. Bye, everybody.