The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #146 with Francis Ngannou

Episode Date: September 22, 2023

Francis Ngannou is a professional mixed martial artist and boxer currently signed to the Professional Fighters League. Ngannou is scheduled to fight boxer Tyson Fury on October 28. https://francisngannoufoundation.com

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. What's up, champ? How are you? I'm good. Good to see you. Good to see you again. So you have been on a journey, my friend. A lot of things have happened.

First of all, congratulations on securing this fight. That is a big deal. A lot of things have happened first of all congratulations on securing this fight that is a big deal a lot of people doubted it was going to happen you were right all right thank you thank you yes it was a big deal it wasn't easy um but we finally get it you know i get a um a help of a lot of people and the sa Saudi were very were very interesting about this fight yeah it was one of those fights where you had to take a big gamble by relinquishing your UFC crowned and I didn't relinquish and he didn't relinquish it yeah what to fill me in that tell me what happened well we didn't come to an agreement you didn't come to an agreement yeah so you decided I'm not signing with the UFC you're free agent yes and then did the negotiations then start for the Tyson Fury fight how did it how did it start um you know

he's been like four years since Tyson Fury and I we've been going back and forth on social media so there was a little bit of a warm-up somewhere there. And it kind of like take a couple months before we get to a conversation. You know, it wasn't just easy, those boxing promotion. The boxing world is a little wild. Yeah, it's a little different. It's completely different. It's a different animal. In what way?

Like explain to us. The way that they do things you know uh it's a this guy from this promotion fighting with this guy against this guy from this promotion who has a better position who has what to lose who is getting what and then how them kind of like put things i will not say manipulate but a little bit like that. Everybody trying to adjust things on his own benefit. Look what is good for him, which is good. But, yeah. A lot of boxing fights don't get made.

They get talked about for a long time, like Tyson Fury and Usyk. For a long time, it was Terrence Crawford and Earl Spence. They get talked about for a long time. And they almost get made, and then they don't get made long time and they almost get made and then they don't get made and they almost get made and then they don't get made. A lot of politics behind. A lot of promotion that will be behind the fight just to, you know, push their position.

Everybody's pushing his position. It's not mostly about the fight. It's about like, okay, we control the game. Do we have enough control here? Do we control everything? Yeah. So was it frustrating for you? Because I imagine there was a while where you weren't sure

whether or not it was going to be made. It wasn't frustrating. You know, before I made my decision when I separated with the UFC and I knew. I mean, a long time before. Like, I remember even when I fought Syringan. Even before that fight, I was telling myself and I was even telling this on interview. Like, okay, if this is the end, then he has to end my way, you know. So, not because I was sure that it's going to happen.

I knew that he could have not happened, right? But I was to be in peace with my decision. So, that's the thing about it. And I'm very happy that it happened. Makes it even better. But I knew there was a risk that it didn't happen. But I had to take a chance. So what was the holdup with the UFC?

Like what led you to not sign? There was a lot of frustration over the years. I think since my fight against Stipe, my first fight against Stipe, my relation with the UFC never been the same. Really? Yeah. Why? In what way?

I don't know. I tried everything. I wasn't, I didn't, I wasn't in the, I felt't I wasn't in the I felt like I wasn't in the right place and after that then I get the directly with fight

was like the worst fight and that didn't help me at all you know so I was I think from that moment I was already

put in some position out there because I came back I won That moment I was already put in some position out there. Because I came back, I won multiple fights, and they came with a new deal. This was after Junior Dos Santos, back in June 2017. And then he was make, who called for a new deal. And then until my team was on the way to the negotiation, who was in Anaheim when Stipe and DC was fighting the second time.

And then I'm like, no, they're not saying no new deal for Francis. He still have three fights on his contract. And to be honest, I was even happy because I wanted to knock that deal out. By that time, I understood a little bit about the market. I just wanted to fight out my contract and renegotiate as free, you know. free you know but then month after we get a call from I think was hunter or somebody there yeah they say oh yeah let's let's talk about a new deal for Francis and at that time I'm like there's not a new deal. We just won a fight. It's already September. Yeah, we are in September.

And my last fight was in June. I won a fight. So the New Deal staff be holding me back. They didn't give me a fight. Because they wanted you to sign a new deal. They wanted me to fight a new deal. And you didn't want to sign a new deal. You wanted to fight your contract down and reneg a new deal you wanted to fight your contract down i want to fight my contract down so they were

slowing things they were slowing things down so that if you see like the interval between my junior dos santos fight and jr rosenthal fight was almost a year i mean it's also right yeah there was a covet in between but without, he would have still be like 10 months, right? And then from Rosenstruck to Stipe, same thing. Then Stipe to Syringan, almost the same thing. He was mostly about the contract. So then finally you fight out the contract, and then what happens?

We didn't come to an agreement at all because during this time, there was still a negotiation, pushing and stuff, and I wanted to fight out that contract. Proposal of money, obviously, they know my position because I was pressured financially. You know, when you have a fight, you expect to fight at least at that level. At that moment, I was expecting to fight at least two or three times a year. Then I get to the point that I have one fight. I have nothing. So I was limited of income, stuff like that. Then I started to borrow money.

Even before the Stipe fight, when they announced that fight, I need to call to ask for advance of my purse to finance my training camp. I have no money. But I was there training and getting ready for almost a year. So I took some advance. That's got to be very stressful.

Yeah, but one thing, and that's like one thing that I'm always grateful about in my life. I used to this situation, and I tell myself like these people, they don't know me. I can live out of nothing. I live in the street, bro. And then I'm here in Las Vegas. You think like, okay, I don't fight.

I just have to change everything. I'm able to live out of the bare minimum. And I don't care if I walk around, you guys say, oh, champ, oh, that's a UFC contender, whatever it is. Man, I just live based off what is in my, based off my asset. I don't live beyond that. That's why, like, I don't really trust those credit card system or those loans and stuff.

That's America shit, bro. I don't trust that. Because when it lets you down, it lets you down. Yeah, for sure. I check my wallet, whatever is in my wallet i live based on that i don't go loan and stuff unless like i'm forced at some point or i'm it's an investment like having taken a money borrowing money for your training camp you know right that's a different different thing so you win the Sirogan fight.

Then what happens? Well, then first Dana didn't come to the ring, to the octagon for the belt. Yeah. And then after that, they get this Dana, invite us to this Dana trying to smooth things out. Again, the condition at that time, I think at that time for me, it was more than a contract. It was like a lot of frustration from the past almost three years. I'm like, okay, I have no guarantee

that signing this contract, I will not get into what I have been to in the past three years. So how about we change something that will make me feel secure? And what did you want to change? A lot of things. First of all, I want a contract without extension because I have seen how they can abuse of those extension of things I want in my contract first of all I want a contract without extension because I have seen how they can abuse of those extension can you explain to me how the extension works oh well I mean there's nothing a way that he works the

extension is that because they say if the if you deny a fight, they can extend you for six months or something. If you're hurt and can't fight, they can extend you for six months or something. But the problem, the UFC is the judge and the party. They decide if they will extend you. You have no say. So when they say, oh, you fight tomorrow, you say, uh, no. No, I'm like, okay, no problem.

We were just checking. And then maybe a week after, you will receive a letter of extension, like your contract has been extended for six months. And that's what happened with me. Even if you're injured, like say if they propose a fight for you, like here we're injured? Say if they propose a fight for you. Like here we are in September.

If they propose a fight for you in Madison Square Garden in November and you say, I can't because I'm injured. Oh, no. That extension. Then they put up a six-month extension. Oh, yeah. That extension. Anytime you refuse a fight? Is that what it is?

Yeah. And refuse is subjective. Right. It depends on the term of subject. It could mean you can't fight because you're injured, like when you tore your knee ligaments. Oh, no, that is an extension. Extension. Yeah, that's clearly an extension.

For example, my extension, for example, the first one, when I get, when I force tipe, right, and I have been fighting almost once a year in the past three years. I fought Stipe on March 27. And then April 2nd, Mick is calling my team. And I tell them like, oh, I want to fight, stay active. I want to fight twice this year again. Summer, which is July or August, and December. And then April 2nd, they are calling to ask me to fight.

And I was getting ready. It was a big moment in my life. I'm like, I'm bringing this trophy home. This trophy home. You're the champ now. Right. And they called to ask me if I can fight in June 12th. It was June 12th, June 6th or something like that. Well, I'm like, bro, give me a time. I mean, they said, no, we were just offering in case because Francis said he want to fight twice this year. I'm like yes I do and I said July the earliest and August and December and I know that I can take one two weeks two three weeks out maybe go

home do stuff and come back and I'm like no no no totally understandable understandable he was just to check in case it worked for you it wasn't really couple months after I received an extension about that but you know why because my contract

originally supposed to end in May 20th of that year so if my contract May 20th of that year. So, if my contract ends on May 20th of that year, that means the championship kicks in, which is one year.

But if they extend me, I have to go all the way to the extension before the championship kicks in. So, it was more time yeah so and when they say no it's okay no problem we were just checking and uh i was in cameroon in uh on may 19th so one day before my original contract which was 14 months one day before my original contract, which was 14 months,

expired. And then the championship kicking, I received an extension letter. I was in Cameroon, suffering of COVID at that time. So, I received an extension letter. So, now I'm extended until

November 20th. Even though you told them you wanted to fight in July? Yeah. So they just tack on? No, they just tacked on. And you have nothing to say. It's effective from the moment that they send that letter out. Okay, so your new contract, you wanted no extensions.

That's one thing. Yeah, that's one thing. Okay. Was one of them the ability to box? One of them was the ability to box. They said that wasn't an option. Boxing is dead. It's not possible.

This and that. Now, what does that feel like to you, knowing that Conor McGregor did it and fought Floyd Mayweather and made $100 million? What is that like for you to be sitting there being told that you can't box? you to be sitting there being told that you can't box well uh i don't used to i don't used to take what people tell me for an answer right right i used to do my own thing right on my in my on my own way right and it seems to work pretty good. So, but I wasn't going to force to change everything.

I wasn't expecting to go there and demand this, demand that and just have everything. You know, it's like, it's a big company.

It's like an institution. Right. You know, so there's a way that they do things. Right. And that can change. So I'm like,

okay, if that's, if so, let's take boxing out. Why? Because give me three fights, contract of three fights. I knew that I can knock a three-fight contract in a year. Then from that moment, I was free because I want a middle ground, like an alternative, a way to get out by giving something out, you know,

to get something at the end. Got it. You know, because it's really hard to get in a negotiation and just like, oh, I want this, I want that, I want that, and stop there. At some point, you have to compromise to push back, give something in order to get something. Yeah.

So stuff like that was the thing that I was about it and that seems to be attractive to them so one three fight deal no extension that seemed to be attractive to fight was supposed to be potentially jun jun's fight and rematch. And one fight is the trilogy with Stipe. That was the request. And work for both parties. Then we get to another point, sponsorship deal.

Why sponsorship deal? Because before that, point, sponsorship deal. Why sponsorship deal? Because before that, I had a deal. After the Stipe fight, I had a deal on the table for over a million dollars for a cryptocurrency wallet. So I was going to have like, I think 1.2 million, which is the money that i didn't i never had in in the fight i was going to have that in a sponsorship and the deal was this close to sign and then they announced the crypto.com deal and then the party poor of them like bro we can do you you understand our position you can be carried this in the octagon why behind we are trying to push you know did you try to make a deal with crypto.com no no creep at that moment

crypto.com they don't care right because they have a deal with you they have to deal with the ufc and you're gonna wear it whether you like it or not right you don't have a say hmm I'm like I think this is mess up I need we need to solve these I need a sponsorship I need a right to have my own sponsor which fighter should be able to have two three sponsorship on their on. I mean, I understand that we want to make the sport grow, make it nice, but we can also, meanwhile, you can have a department who check all the sponsors, like, oh no, this is not good because of this reason. It doesn't represent the sport well, right? But

there are a lot of good staff out there that will also help fighters to provide, to get a little more money. And that was another discussion. I'm like, oh, you can't do that. That's not work. I'm like, okay. So what is working exactly?

They make me some kind of like a proposal which i don't know what doesn't even make sense but and the other one was like um because of the fact that i was in this position for so long and I was just so powerless. The reason why I stay in this position, why I keep holding my ground was only because in the contract there is what they call the sunset clause. So meaning like after five years from the beginning, from the day you signed the contract, uh doesn't matter what is in the contract the contract expire the extension they can extend you past that date so my end goal from the beginning from the moment that i know that okay i'm gonna hold this ground i knew that i have to face some obstacle so my

end goal was the five years the sunset okay i had the sunset day date in my mind december 9th 2022 i had that day in my mind for like almost three years so when i was receiving all this extension letter i mean i couldn't fight it either way but in my mind i was just like it's okay one thing that i know i just just focus on december 9 2022 and then you will be fine so after that then i'm like okay if i sign a new deal i don't know even if there is not extension they have been a proof of like how could I say in a nice way abuse of power right but why are we in this position this is the position that every fighter get into right I mean be feeling powerless we might be many hundreds of us but it's every individual at time we are very separated every case is separated so which mean you're just weak

it's just you against big monster which is the company the institution so you can fight how can we make it make sense i mean we are not going for union but at least you guys sometime before make some decision how about you have somebody in the room who can understand things from our perspective, because I do believe that all the decision that you might make will hurt us is not meant to hurt. But maybe just because you don't understand our position. Maybe if somebody, they're speaking for us, which, again, I don't know who it could be, but just be mindful that, okay, this is fighter position.

Maybe that will help. So you get through all this, and then where did it break down to the point where you had to walk away? I think it was December, no, December 20, I don't remember, 19 or 22, something like that. I had a dinner with Hunter. After we've been going through stuff, he said no to this, no to that, you know. But I have a focus. I know that, okay, if I give three fights here, since they are willing to take the three fights,

it's going to make, you know, I don't want to break this relationship like this. I don't want it to be a war. I can't stand. I can't stand in this. But, so we can get trying to fix things up. But when we met again that day was the first time over all this time that we have to talk

about the financial aspect. I mean, he has to propose a financial aspect. Right, so he proposed it at dinner. Yeah, he proposed at dinner. And then I just like, this guy is making fun of me. Making fun of you? Yeah. So it was disrespectful?

It was like not valuable enough for you? No, at all. And you're the champ at the time. Yeah. I mean, no, at all. Like when you're talking about pay-per-view, then you're negotiating pay-per-view, and then you see number like 1.25 pay-bys and stuff like that,

and the pay-per-view is going from $60 to $80 in the past five years and you realize that the 0.25 that is on top of it is just out of the $20 that been added on. I'm like come on man it's not my first pay-per-view contract and just wasn't enough money what wasn't even about the the money even how he was structured even how he was i'm like this doesn't make sense you know i i went home and i was so i don't know frustrated or disappointed I don't know how I can describe but one thing I know I went online I'm like I'm

missing Christmas with my family I'm here training for a potential John Jones fight which might not happen what for? Seems like we're not getting anywhere close I booked a flight that night to go to Cameroon and I was in Cameroon in the Christmas and then a couple of days after I received a text from Mick, Mick Manor, who was, you know, Mick usually sometimes just send me a friendly text to check on me and then we talked a little bit and then he talked about the the contract like he heard that we didn't come to a term i said yes

say like is it anything that i can do i'm like i don't think so we didn't just have a an agreement and he said how about I make it we talk again let's get in the meeting with Hunter again and talk and as I said make always be nice and I couldn't say no I'm like yes let's try in fact I wish I could have worked you know because to be honest I never like really before all this I never imagined a life out of the UFC I thought he would be like my fighting platform onto my retirement or something. But clearly things have changed along the way. So even when they came back a second time, it still was not enough. Yeah.

Because when they came back, and all this time that we've been talking, they've been talking about the, what is the term? Back pay. Yeah, we're going to back pay you. Because from all the fights that have been refusing to renegotiate the pay that they were proposing, they said they're going to back pay me that. When they come out now and then make pay better, and now I'm like, okay, the back pay and this and that. I'm like, no, no, everything is in this contract. This is it. This is it. And I'm like, okay. Well, then I don't know what to say if you say this is it.

Because it's against your word. You say something then I don't know what to say. If you say this is it, because you're, it's against your word. You say something and now you say, this is it. I said, I don't have the back pay, bro. So they proposed the back pay and then they took it away.

Yeah. They've been proposing the back pay before. After the Siri fight, they get, they invite us to a dinner and then keep reminding me how they're gonna

back pay me everything because I have a a good a proposal at the time but I know that proposal and he was a good money

but I know he was just a bear to sign a contract he was just to put the pen on the paper he wasn't really like a good fit like what how do you want to make He begged me to sign a contract. It was just to put the pen on the paper. It wasn't really a good fit, like how do you want to give me a good contract? And they get to the point that I'm like,

No, everything is in this. I'm like, OK. I don't see it. And we were kind of silenced for a couple second like what's that mean i'm like i don't know then we hang up so at that point do you start to talk to people like the pfl and nfc and no no at that point i stopped i didn't do anything when we stopped that convention i didn't do anything until like um i started to see all this thing on social media and then i saw they didn't uh they didn't have press uh press conference like oh we get rid of francis uh

yes he's not getting any younger he's injured i'm like yes he's not getting any younger but you were trying to have him he's injured but you were trying to have him now you didn't come to an agreement you're batching him that's when i started to respond because i never really like want this like to be something on me. And I was expecting like maybe they go out there and just say, oh, unfortunately, we didn't come to agreement

and this and that. And thank you. Good luck. Right? And then we move away. But that's not how they do things over there. So you decide

to start talking to other people then? Yeah. And who do you talk to first? People started to reach out. I wasn't even the one talking to people. And, you know, at that time, I just want to let this weight drop out of my shoulder. For some reason, I for some reason I feel

relieved I feel relieved there was so much pressure into that process you know and I was in Cameroon I'm like man just live your life you know whatever is yours out there who come to you like but I get the uh the first person that reached out was pete mary from pfl and then i was just like yes let's hear him out and he came out we speak he asked like what i'm looking for and stuff we speak and like ah looks good a couple days after he made a proposal I look I mean I didn't even ask for not anything but when he make a proposal I look at the structure of that proposal I'm like this is good know, everything was being taken into consideration. You know, obviously there is always going to be a way to negotiate in a contract.

But the way that they structured it, I was already happy. I'm like, I think this guy is trying to make me happy. Yeah, well, they need someone like you. The PFL doesn't really have the big stars. Yeah. So, but we keep that contract, and at that time, I'm like, let's wait. I'm not rushing to anything.

Take some time and everything, and then... So you didn't sign that yet? No, I didn't sign. We also get to a chat tree. Even chat tree, reach out reach out we talk same thing and then cover days they send their own contract but when I was put in that contract next to the PFL one it was their. The PFL was much better? Yeah. Okay. And the PFL put a clause in to allow you to box? Yeah.

Boxing was first for me, right? Would the PFL be involved in the boxing promotion? That was up to me. Okay. That was up to me. But they didn't really want to. It's not their expertise. But if they can help in some way or be involved in some way against it's up to me right so very independent contract so

but I was more looking about like boxing that's the first time that I have to I started to have dialogue about boxing and stuff, you know, and I know there was some conversations with you fighting. There was Deontay Wilder. They talked about, I think they talked about Dillian White. He was,

he was Deontay Wilder. We definitely, we had a conversation with Deontay Wilder team, even with him. I personally like was under of meeting with him conference with him that we were talking about a potential to fight you so and that's what that was going well and i think even to this day, we are kind of like open about it. It's just along the way, he has the potential opportunity right away that they said, okay, let's explore. Right after that, I started a conversation with the...

with the... for the FuriFight. I got a call. I was driving to the airport, and I get a call to meet in New York for some conversation about the Fury fight. And then when I get in New York, next week, we schedule that on next week, I get in New York.

We get to the room. I meet the people he was the right people we spoke I heard that I hear them out and I'm like I knew them right and I'm like okay this is legit I think with these people behind this fight is going to happen that's where i now put them in contact with my team to negotiate because they wanted me to everything let's negotiate this i'm like i don't do negotiation i listen i talk about like how i would like things to go, but I don't like to negotiate personally. Right, of course.

I want this, I deserve this, I'm that. I'd rather have somebody do that on my behalf. Right, somebody do that on your behalf and you want to respond to a good deal. You want a good deal brought to you. Yeah, I want somebody. It's always good to have somebody in the mirror that would take the temper of both parties.

Right. Because a deal can fall off just because somebody's mad and his ego take over and the deal is off, right? Right. But when there's somebody in between and you always come to like, okay, it's not him. Right. And just to think about it and that's what happened because sometimes with my team there was that there was frustrated and i'm like oh no this not working and then they will come to you then you will talk nice you know be a nice cop have no problem i'm like no but my team is saying this because they didn't mean to offense you, you know.

But I think, you know. Frustrating, right? No, not frustrating. Complicated. Yeah, but over the time, you learn, you understand how it works, and it's pretty easy. Okay. It's pretty easy. So, you're in the driver's seat

now, because you've left the UFC. You have all these opportunities on the table, possibly Deontay Wilder, then it becomes Tyson Fury. So when do you know that that fight is actually going to take place? Because I know there was a June. June. That was in June. That was in June. We locked that fight. It was concluded. Everything was set. So for all those months from December to June, you're essentially just trying to find where you're going to land. in March, but I made the request. I said, let's just figure out what will be my next boxing fight before we sign the deal. So you haven't signed the deal with the people? I haven't signed the deal. Is it possible? Let me ask you this.

Okay. Is it possible that you go and fight Tyson Fury and then the UFC comes back to you and says, listen, let's make this right and let's fight Jon Jones? Is that possible? It's possible, but... That that possible it's possible but no it's possible it's it's possible but they have to go to the pfr now oh because the pfl have a contract signed yeah you did sign the contract i did sign i say in march i was it wasn't signed right i. I signed in May. Do you think the PFL would allow that?

Oh, the PFL is down for that. Really? Yeah, it's down for that. Wow. The PFL is down for that. The PFL would let you fight in the UFC. But what happens if you beat Jon Jones and become the UFC heavyweight champion again? That's a problem. I don't know.

Maybe he'll be a special fight, a special bird or something. Maybe not like a UFC bird. I don't know. Yeah, the UFC probably would be down for that. Yeah. Win the title

and then go fight in the PFL. No, no. Not the title. But, you know, to be honest, I don't worry about the title. The title is not what I worry about. I worry about that fight, that challenge. Yes. And I wouldn't care if it was a fight without a title, you know.

So in my, I don't need a UFC title. Especially with that fight. Like, what difference does it make? It's Jon Jones and you. No, that fight is bigger than the title. Yes, bigger a UFC title. Especially with that fight. What difference does it make? It's Jon Jones and you. No, that fight is bigger than the title. Yes, bigger than the title. The fight is bigger than the title. No doubt.

So deep inside me, I still have a little bit of hope, even though I know it's going to be hard. But you never know. Boy, that would be a big gamble for them. Because if you win, then you're the champ, but you're signed with the PFL. Yeah. Oh.

Okay, so June, you get the Tyson Fury bout negotiated. Did you get everything you want? Was it easy? Again, you don't walk in a room for a contract to get everything that you want. Right. And at that moment, I was so happy happy to get that fight happen because from that fight a lot of things would be open that fight would open a lot of dough

you know sometime even in the negotiation sometimes you have to see long term, like what he comes with. Now I get this fight. I think it should have been the focus, right? After this fight, imagine hypothetically I go out there and knock Tyson Fury out. What do you think will happen for me now? Where does that leave me? If you knock tyson fury out you're the biggest combat sports star in the world okay that's what i think so is that everything

that you will want you want the cash you gotta get the cash and you will get everything yeah well if you knock tyson fury out the real money is in a rematch exactly that's the real money that's crazy buddy that's why I'm giving you crazy money are they giving you crazy money for the Tyson Fury fight yeah they're giving me a good money uh and very great condition I I like I like a lot of component and again a lot like a lot of components of this contract. The treatment that they were giving me, the access, how easy they made stuff for me. It's going to be the first time that my family is going to attend to my fight. And I don't even have to think about that.

They're going to work on it. They're going to figure out how to bring my mom, my sister, my brother out to Saudi to watch that fight. Oh, okay. So they're going to take care of everything. They're going to take care. The Saudis know how to throw that money around, boy. And I think that's something that for me was very, very important. I think, you know, I could have half more money, but it wouldn't make me more happier than stuff like that.

And, you know, you kind of like work with people that you feel like, okay, they are trying their best, their very best, to make you feel comfortable, feel happy. I think that is also a partnership, you know. It's not like one shot. Okay. Take everything that I can take and go. How can we build something? Like, is it like somebody that I can trust? Can we build something for the future? And then when you feel like yes, you invest into that relationship. Okay. So June, they negotiate the fight uh is it 12 rounds 10 rounds 10 rounds yeah 10 rounds

and they've created a new belt right and um you're happy with the money you're happy with the conditions you're happy with everything so then in june is when you go hardcore boxing training like when did you start like hardcore boxing training i was training uh boxing already um no no like i was in a camp but you're recovering from your knee surgery first of all right yes so you can't kick and you can't wrestle i can kick i can wrestle i mean obviously careful i have to be careful but how is the knee now? 100%? I don't have to worry about kick, wrestling. Right. Just knee.

My knee is probably 90%. I mean, when you get a knee surgery. Did you get any stem cells or anything? Not yet. How long are you in town for? I had a PRP. I'm leaving tonight. You're leaving tonight.

Yeah. There's a company in Austin, Ways to Well, that I wanted to hook you up with. Ways to Well, yes. I get in contact with them. I get them to do my exam. And I think Eric Nixick put me in contact with them. With Brigham? He sent me a contact.

I can take care of that, too. Yeah, with Brigham. Yeah, I can take care of that with brigham yeah i can take care of that too about the same sir if we have a time and i think you should do that yeah i think i'm gonna give you the shirt yeah for sure you know it'll help you it definitely well it's very important to take care of to maintain the vehicle yes Yes, obviously. And what a vehicle it is. Basically, when you're going to put it in a big crash like this. So, yeah, right?

That's a good way to put it. Yeah, because Tyson Fury is a monster. He's a monster. I stand next to him. I'm like, damn, this guy is big. Right? I'm like, you really need to go full force. Yeah, he's a big fellow

and he's very good very skillful oh man you jump into the top of the heap maybe ever and then I was there at the press conference

next to him and I'm like yes look my fat belly I'm a fat pig I'm this I'm like don't you fool me I have seen you

yeah he tricks people with that belly I'm like don't you fool me don't you trick me. I have seen you. He tricks people with that belly. I'm like, don't you fool me. Don't you trick me, Tyson. I have seen you box and you doesn't box

as a fat anything at all. No, he doesn't. No, he doesn't. He's an animal. If you just focus on his body, then you'll be like, oh, easy job. No, man.

When the guy's in the ring moving you, I'm like, okay, is it like something that they are remoting or something i'm like no don't you fool me he's very very skillful yeah very skillful but you know you have probably the most sensational punching power i've ever seen in the heavyweight division in the ufc um it's you and derrick le and Derek Lewis. You're the two biggest knockout artists ever. Maybe, but again, I think in the heavyweight division,

everybody can knock everybody out. The problem is to connect. Yes. That's the most problem. When you walk to, everybody hit somebody in the shin, it's going down. But can you connect?

How to connect the delivery system and it's something that I heard once from Teddy Atlas and it's taken my mind

like the delivery system. You can have the biggest missile but if you can't hit your target it's useless. So when do you get involved with Mike Tyson? When did that start happening?

In training? Yes. Because I've seen videos of you training with Tyson. How much have you trained with him? Not too much. He comes time to time. Not always. He's not always with me.

But if you look like four years ago, exactly four years ago, and that's when Tyson and I, we started to hit each other on social media. And four years ago was the first time that I met Mike Tyson. I was on his podcast, the Hot Boxing. And one request that I initiated at that time was like, whenever I fight Tyson Fury would you be in my corner and he said yes that is it that's even on my Instagram he's still on my Instagram like the next day I put that as a caption like he said I

asked him if you can you be in my corner whenever I fight Tyson Fury I nobody believed that this could have happened like Like, okay, cool. Then what? And when I get the fight, I'm like, bro, that thing is happening. That thing is manifesting itself. Wow. And so Tyson agrees to be in your corner. And who are you training with mostly for boxing? I'm training with Dewey. Dewey Cooper? Dewey Cooper, yeah. I also get this guy from France named John Bumba that I used to work with him, train my boxing with him. He's a young, very young guy, you know.

But I like his style, the way that he is approached and stuff. And I really have a good connection with him. So what's happened? Uh, I reached out. I mean, even before the fight, I was working with him, taking me, taking him in Cameroon, get some training already. And then when the fight get announced I talk with him then I brought him out so he's in Vegas with me and so you started your journey in martial arts you initially wanted to be a boxer yes and then when you went to an MMA gym they can tell when I went to France right yeah no he was even in a boxing gym that they convinced me to be MMA fighter. A guy from a boxing gym named Didier Carmon.

The first boxing gym that I get into. But he was also a martial artist himself. And he said, bro, I think you have a very good potential. I think your best outcome now regarding your situation because I was the homeless at the time. I think your best outcome will be MMA. If you that's I'm like, what's MMA? He started to explain to me like, you know, I'm like, ah, okay, that's what are they doing the cage? Say yes. I'm like i'm like i have seen it he said if you train some rest uh takedown defense and jujitsu what is jujitsu started to explain i think you're gonna be a ufc champion one day what is ufc and how old were you when this was happening 27 that was in 2013 it's so crazy that june 2013 people don't understand that you started this journey as an MMA fighter so late in your life compared to most.

Like a lot of these guys, they're training when they're 14, 15 years old. They're in MMA gyms and having amateur fights. Yeah. And I forced my way into MMA. And that's why there was a lot of things that I didn't understand properly. I didn't learn as an athlete growing up. And until I get to a steep fight, the first steep fight. Man, that steep fight taught me a lot about combat sport.

After that fight, I was at the press conference and telling people, I think I have learned more in this fight because here i've been what almost just four years four years and a half since i've been doing bed not even four years and a half since i've been doing mma when i first tp the first time yeah and i said i i learned this night tonight tonight i learned more than I have learned in the past four years in this game and I think people didn't understand but I meant it well you certainly showed it in the rematch you certainly showed it

in the rematch and Daniel Cormier pointed it out, he said patient Francis, you were patient in the second fight, you didn't just rush out and try to take him out in the first round much more dangerous yeah because my all my previous fight before stipe i wasn't rushing rushing on anybody what about rosenstreich you kind of rushed him that was after yeah i mean before the first before the first fight i wasn't rushing off on anybody i was knocking people out

without rushing the mistake the thing that i did is like I get to the point that I really started to think about the knockout, which is something that I never thought about it. It just happened. Right. Then I started to think about it. So that's where I rushed. You were trying to make it happen. I was trying to make it happen.

And obviously at that time, there was a lot of pressure on me and everything. Yeah. So I was, I feel like I have to give a result. So that's why I was rushing. So I understand that night. I went back and watched that fight and I saw me fight. I'm like, who is that guy? He just looked like me, but I don't recognize why he's rushing.

Why he's doing this? So then I understand I'm like okay maybe you just have to go back to your previous the previous way the previous you and then thing will be fine then I went back to my in the rematch not only were

you the previous you but you were way better version of you you were very calculated very technical he was it was four years uh what three years after yeah so of course i have learned i'm in the sport to learn i know that i have a deficiency so i pay a lot of attention than those people that grew up as a athlete know, doing different sport. I always take that very seriously, the fact that, I mean, maybe sometimes my power hurt me to get away with stuff, but I know that I have a deficiency, you know,

as far as experience and everything, even techniques, because sometimes I hear people say, oh, yeah, he didn't train wrestling in a training camp. I'm like, bro, come on. You think two, three months training, wrestling in a training camp will outwrestle somebody that's been wrestling his entire life?

No, you can't. You can't just find a way to go around. But, you know. So that's how I process things. I think about the advantage. I always think of myself as an underdog. So what did you change in your training after the first T-Bay fight? Did you change anything?

First of all, I understand how to train properly. I understand how to train properly. I understand how to train properly. And again, I just think about everything as a deficiency. I used to think that sometimes I'm like, oh, yes, he has a good striking. He's a boxer. He knocks people out. I'm like, no, I have no good striking.

Everything has to involve, you know, whether it's my striking, my wrestling, my jujitsu. That's why people keep training. The day that you think like, oh, I'm good at this, that's the day that you start to go down because you can't stay in the same place like this. Right. You're going to permanently try to go up. And even if you are not going up,

that's how you can maintain your position. But if you stay comfortable with something, that's the day that you start to lose it. So I changed everything. I focused on everything, like all the assets. That fight really helped me a lot lot I think about my diet think about like discipline stuff I mean usually I'm I'm pretty I make I'm good with discipline but I still think about everything put everything in prospect like okay is my diet okay it by the way after the steep a fight I decided to cut soda out for a

couple couple why before and since then I never drink soda you were drinking a lot before oh a ton a ton even in training camp a ton in training camp I was eating croissant, everything. I was like, no, I'm heavyweight. I was just focusing about my weight and not about my condition and all those aspects. I didn't know. You know, the night before the Stipe fight, I was in the Foco de Chão eating all those steaks. That's good. Really? Yeah, that's good for you.

Before the fight? Meat. Oh, no. it's not good at all not good no at all i was heavy as shit oh yeah did you eat stuff with the meat like potatoes and rice and of course yeah that's what i'm talking about that's where it is the night before the couple like maybe two two hours or maybe one hour before I worked in the arena I was at Foucault de Chao an hour before you went to the arena?

yeah, no in the arena because I went to the arena maybe two hours before the fight but three hours is not enough to digest all those meats and stuff and so in that fight you learn all these lessons to digest all those foods. To digest all those meats and stuff. Yeah.

And so in that fight, you learn all these lessons and then you change your diet, you enhance your discipline and you keep working on all your skills. Yeah. Then, you know, how we were talking about patience.

That's how I walked into the Stipe fight, the direct Lewis fight with like constantly tell myself be patient and i was there just like telling myself i think i wasn't even in that fight i was there but i was still fighting stupid i was like no be patient be patient be patient you're still thinking about getting tired in that first fight, getting taken down, getting control? No, really. I was just thinking about, like, patience.

Patience. Just patience. But I overdo. You overdo. You know, I overdo it. And it was too much. That's how it turned out. But I was like, patience.

You get this. You get this. That's why at the end of the fight, I'm like, is it over? I was confused. I didn't know that he was even the third round. Really? Oh, yeah. I was really messed up mentally.

I didn't know. I thought I still have a round. So what was that feeling like? And my corner was telling me, I mean, they were telling me everything's good. Like, okay, I think you get one round. The second round, maybe you get this, I don't know. And so I feel like everything was right. So my mind was playing me really bad in that fight. So what was it like when you went back and watched that fight?

I didn't watch. You didn't watch it? Yeah, I feel bad. You know know i feel like i waste a bullet the important bullet yeah and then that sets you back yeah i feel very bad and then the reaction about it how the way people react about it you know you get to the point that i kind of like tell myself like okay screw this everything man you know um the reason why i get into combat sport basically mma was because it was fun i was never going to do mma i was I just kept training like, oh, it's fun. I like it. Let's keep going. Then I realized that that fun wasn't there anymore. And that's why I was falling down

because I start focusing on about what people think, people's reaction, people's feelings. And then I forget the reason why I started the sport. So now i get the second fight again curtis played in china i'm like okay this might be the end i don't think if i lost this fight it's gonna be good for me right but at least i earned it i ended how i started just by phone just go there enjoy yourself have fun and don't worry about what's next and then 45 second the guy was down and then ken velasquez 25 second the guy was down i was just there to have fun uh junior dos santos the guy was down i'm like seems like having fun you found your groove yeah like having fun is exactly why I'm doing this and it's why I'm good at it.

Let's just do it, you know. So I try not to put pressure on me. Every fight I'm like, I'm going to go there, do my best, make sure that everything that should have been done is done on my end, and the rest I don't control it. Have you ever worked with a sports psychologist? Man, I don't believe in that. I try.

No? No, I don't believe. I think everything is in our mind. You can go out there trying to find all those stuff, but you have it in your mind. You can speak to yourself. You can't speak to yourself. You can't question to yourself. I mean, I don't need a sports psychology to tell me why I'm doing this.

It's out of passion. I do this because I love it. It's not a job. You understand? Yeah. I question myself, like, why did I get here? How come did I came from where I came from and get here then I find all those reasons and then therefore I put my my stuff together right

maybe some people do some people clearly need people to like help them to control themselves. I see that in a lot of fighters basically. They need like a coach or something. Somebody to tell them what to do like they don't know. Like to tell them what time to train. You know you have a fight.

You schedule your training at this time. You have this and this to work on. You can schedule that and get there every day at the same time do your thing go home get ready for another day but some people do need somebody to get them that so do you schedule all your training yeah everything i schedule everything really yeah and my team i organize all my team you know mostly about people that i feel the good energy about because again i don't believe in so many things i don't believe

in like oh this guy is the great uh he's a great trainer he can do this no i believe that everything comes from a fighter and the energy that people around him can bring can help him win ndat e My team is great. They are all great. Everybody is very professional, committed. But if I feel like somebody has this energy and not even as great, I prefer that person than somebody that is a great trainer

and don't bring that energy because the energy is very important yeah you know when you start to get tired when you're in the tough situation the voice that you can listen and to trust is more important than the technique that you can learn you can't know all the techniques in the world and you should get there your mind is not right you are not doing shit yeah yeah yeah so the energy the people you got that's all down You got a great trainer, Dewey Cooper. He's fantastic. I get, I still get, um, I get Dewey Cooper, even Eric. Eric Nixick. Eric Nixick. Amazing. We're still in here because, um, I remember even how we get together. He wasn't most like like a coach I was in a fighting junior dos Santos and I have only Dewey Cooper or with Markel on my team and I reach out I asked Markel like

we should bring somebody in the corner or something and he talk about Eric then I'm like I always meet Eric around and he's nice and I'm like yes let's try him and then he we get to the locker suddenly I feel the energy was great you know I'm like man this is good hmm I like this vibe yeah my in my team that's for me is enough you know that's why I like sometime I understand once I saw Mike Perry he went to a fight with only his wife in his corner and then people was criticizing him i'm like i understand him he's doing the right thing he understand how the games work he just want a voice that can speak to him when he's tired

somebody that he trusts right and all those stuff and everything he already knows how to fight yeah he knows how to fight yeah because nobody is knows how to fight. Yeah. Because nobody is going to raise your hand and punch on somebody's head. Right. Or like nobody is going to dodge a punch for you. Nobody is going to say, oh, knock him out now. Right. You know, it's just it's fighting game

is mental, more mental and improvisation. So you schedule everything. You schedule your strength and conditioning? You schedule your sparring? You schedule everything? You just do it all based on how you feel and what you need to get done?

No, like I schedule, I mean, I get a strength and conditioning, for example. For this camp, I get three power. It's out here with me. So we talk about the goal. What is the goal? What is the deficiency? What do we want?

Where do we want to get by the fight? We are 12 weeks out. Okay, what is what we want to work on? And what would be the good space? Then we get that schedule. Then with the boxing team we speak around but I always trying to get my team together so sometimes they can just work together they don't always need to come to me on staff you know they can my team can

communicate together under also on my schedule but but yes. So when you train, you do strength and conditioning, are you using a heart rate monitor? Are you paying attention to your resting heart rate, what it's like when you wake up, your heart rate variability? Do you get involved in any of those things? Sometimes, not always. Sometimes I even do the test to see where I am at. VO2 max.

Yeah. Yeah, even the VO2 max. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, even the VO2 max. But we focus on, I think, like, the most important thing for me right now, my injuries. It's all about my injuries, you know. Do you have other injuries other than your knee? Injury, no. I mean, you get sore, you get later. If you get to a training camp to the end without pain somewhere,

then you better worry. You probably didn't do enough. Yeah, you probably didn't do it right. Yeah. So that's the thing. That's the reality of the sport. That's the reality of the sport you can like train hard for three months and feel great every day and don't feel like something's

wrong no right that's mean yeah you're not doing something right is it easier to train for boxing because you don't have to do the wrestling you don't have to do the wrestling, you don't have to do the kicking? Is it like less likely that you get injured? Sometime you think so, but when you get there, it's different. You know, like in the first two weeks, it wasn't even a training camp, it was a pre-camp. My first two weeks in boxing, straight boxing,

I felt different. Of course, you get excited because, because oh you're not going to kick or take down or this is just boxing uh oh you're not going to you don't risk injury for your knee and that because now i always think about my knee then you get there you start a hit mid hit part do all those stuff always your hands up and then your shoulder start to hurt then you throw more punch in two weeks than you have ever thrown in the training camp in the two month two three month training camp then i'm like ah there is a different you know your shoulder feels different like it's not the same thing. In MMA, you throw one, two, kick, one, two, three, kick,

one, take down. Daily boxing, wrestling, cage wrestling, all those stuff. Now in boxing, your hands has to go all the time. And when he's not going, he has to be on your face, protecting your face.

Otherwise, you're going to eat that punch. Clearly. Yeah. So when you prepare for a fight like this you've never had a big professional boxing fight before and this is the biggest of all time I mean you're you're literally fighting the greatest heavyweight of all time yeah how do you know when to peak how do you know like when you're? Because you haven't done this kind of training before. You will never be ready.

Even at the fight night, you will always think like, oh, if I have this, maybe I should have done this instead. Maybe this would have helped me. When is the go time you have to go? So you just have to make sure to get there in your best. The best you can do. The best you can do without burnout because there's also a balance in between

because if you overdo, then you burn out by the time you get to a fight. That's why I was asking about heart rate monitors and checking your resting heart rate and heart rate variability because one of the best ways to find out if you are overtrained is to check your resting heart rate when you rate variability, because one of the best ways to find out if you are overtrained is to check your resting heart rate when you wake up first thing in the morning.

And if it's up 8 beats a minute, 10 beats a minute, most likely you went too hard. And then they'd suggest like an active recovery day, a lighter training day where you're still moving, you're still working on technique, but you're not pushing. You're not really pushing. And even when your heart rate monitor indicates that, I used to use the Aura Watch,

and it almost indicates how you feel. You feel it. Right. And then when you have a good team, they can also measure the mass of your your training and they can also walk around it they know okay monday and tuesday we went hard on this wednesday has to be slow and this you know maybe work on technique or like on the strain on this and that all those aspects and that's why a team is very good about because you can like by yourself think about everything no no you need other people yeah yeah you need other people to

help you big because uh things get so big you need other people to help you and everybody is kind of like he have his own department to worry about. And so when you're training, how much sparring are you doing? How many days a week? Three or two sometimes. It depends, again, how you feel and how the recovery has been, how was the sparring. You know, sometimes you get sparring and you feel like, yeah, തതેরຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶຶ� And sometimes you just go to a sparring and that one is hard. The guy gives you a hard time.

You push. The pace is high. And then next day, maybe you need to recovery. Not like recovery, but slow it down. Give your shoulder some rest because you'll always end up on maybe heavy backs. It's all about that balance. But it's like two trees two three a week and are you sparring with any world-class heavyweights um

world-class so far no the only guy that i used to spar with which is a world-class heavyweight it's carlos staccam and he's now just coming in the training camp because he's also gonna fight in a under on the cart yeah which is a war class and we're gonna get there we were talking about some guy that we were bringing like experienced fighters boxer to spar what is it like for you to spar. What is it like for you to spar boxers and not be able to kick, not be able to take them down? Does it create any adjustment for you? I wasn't an expert

of kicking either way. But you kick hard. Again, I wasn't an expert of kicking and I wasn't an expert of taking down. That's true. But you did defend your heavyweight title a lot lot of it with wrestling, because of your knee. Yeah, because I couldn't do, that was the only option that I had. Right.

You know, I couldn't, I wasn't comfortable moving. Right. I was permanently. You went, we should tell people, you went into that fight to defend your heavyweight title with torn knee ligaments. Yeah. Your knee was fucked up going into that fight. ACL, MCL. That's crazy.

Meniscus. And you're fighting Cyril Ghosn, who's the most agile, light-footed heavyweight. He moves everywhere. I'm like, okay, I need to figure a way. Nobody moves like that guy. Yeah. But one thing that helped me into that fight a lot,

I believe in myself. I know that I'm going to get him. I wasn't looking for knockout. Once again, I wasn't looking for knockout, but I know that I'm going to have my opportunity at some moment in the fight. two rounds I was little like worried about how to move and this and that like oh my knee oh this you know but I was still confident and after the first two rounds I'm like man I'm losing it can't end like this no not like this we need to

to do something to switch it up yeah was that a satisfying victory for you though to do something. Switch it up. To switch it up, man. Yeah. Was that a satisfying victory for you, though, knowing that you could beat one of the best heavyweights in the world with only one leg?

He was the most satisfying? Yes, by far the best. Because there was, it wasn't one fight at that night. That night, I was fighting like four opponents. I was fighting my demons, my needs, everything. The contract.

I was fighting the contract. I was fighting the narrative. I was fighting everything that can go wrong. And I couldn't strip this fight better than this. If you had asked me how would you like to win? I would say knockout, obviously, which is the easiest way.

Right. But everybody predicted me to be like, okay, he has a chance in the two first rounds to knock Syring out. After that, his power is going down. Then his cardio is going down. He has nothing. It was the completely opposite way. They say, oh, Syringan has a cardio after two rounds after a fight he can fight two fights in a night

I'm like bro come on depends you know at the end of the fight I'm like I'm not sure that he's ready to fight another fight to take another fight on tonight you know and unlike what they predicted I lost the

two first round, and I started to win from the third round, which is like the contrary of what they predicted. Yeah. But nobody knew that your knee was that fucked up either, though. The UFC knew it was injured. They let you wrap it, right? No, no, they know.

They know everything. They knew everything? Yeah. When I did the MRI, he went to dr davidson and then when he was explaining it to me he said only four people know about this by now dana hunter you and i that's when he was how he was his did you consider pulling out of the fight pulling out of the fight? I thought, yeah.

You know, in the perfect scenario, I would have pulled out of the fight. You know, but I didn't want to give them an opportunity. Another extension. It wasn't about the extension. It was just to bury me. I don't want to give the opportunity to bury me. Yeah.

You know how in this world they say, okay, I'm going to die with my sword in my hand? Yes. Yeah. It was like, okay, I'm dying with my sword in my hand. Yeah. That's a lot of pressure. Yeah. When I heard about when they explained me what was going on in my knee, I was very

I was very worried Then for somehow I call I call I call Camaro or he called me Anyway, we were in the phone and we were talking and he was explained me like What he had and this and I remember once I saw him in Vegas when he fought. I think it was Kobe Carvington the first time. And the guy was messed up, man. He was working like this in the fight week. Getting cortisone shot here and there.

I'm like, damn, this guy is going to fight. Maybe it was Tyron Woodland. So this guy is going to fight on Saturday. I was so worried. I feel bad about it. Man, at that night, he was sharp. This is the guy that I saw him on Wednesday. He was barely able to work.

He was sharp. And i know exactly what was wrong with him so that kind of like hurt me to believe that man when comes the moment you know fighting your fighting instinct will take off kamaro is so strong mentally oh man people knew how bad his knees are his His knees are so bad. He has to go backwards downstairs sometimes. Sometimes, yeah. And then he will be like, oh his hips, this. I'm like, bro, you can't pull out the fight.

No, he's going to fight. And then he show up to the fight. Looks perfect. Looks perfect. There is no way that is you know so I kind of like that's kind of like inspiring me feel better about myself I'm like man I can't do this you know like it's not over yet right I still have something left so I keep even though I couldn't train anymore I couldn't rest so I couldn't do anything and I was three weeks away from three weeks and half away from the fight

So I started to focus on my air bike You know cardio cardio up walk, you know body work but wasn't Is it easy? But I think my air bike helped me a lot because from not be trained for over three weeks before the fight and get there like that wasn't too bad that airbags the air bike yeah hey air assault i i use the echo bike the rogue echo bike no i always use the assault i like the assault one you know i like the grind like you feel the monsters yes you feel the monster. You're pushing to your knee.

Such a good workout. I have it in my living room. I sit in the room and put the TV in front. And I will ride that thing for hours. To work on my cardio. It's amazing for cardio. It's my favorite machine. And for heavyweight, it's not great for you being out there running in the

concrete or putting all those weight on your joint right with with the uh with the airbag you do the same thing without putting all the stress into your joint i'm like man i think this is like probably the best device for me yeah no it's the best device for a lot of people it's a phenomenal piece yeah of equipment so what else were you doing for recovery do you get massages do you use the sauna do you use the cold plunge what else do you do physical therapy i just get a cold plunge from plunge um and then uh i started i set that up i was able to make it work this week. I used that. I do the hyperbaric.

Oh, nice. Yeah, I do the hyperbaric chamber. I have a friend in Vegas who has a hyperbaric store. So she's even partnered with Misha Tate and Jan, okay. And Janelle, they have a Dizemone hyperbaric. So I go there sometimes. They have this hardcore one. I used to get someone in my house, but he would be the soft one. Yeah, it's not as good. Yeah, it's not as good.

No, you want a real one. Yeah, you can always think that can only go to 1.3 or something. Yeah, you want two. Yeah. With the hard one, you go to 1.3 or something. Yeah, you want two. Yeah. Yeah. With the hard one, you go to two. We should explain. That means two environments, two, twice the normal oxygen, the environment. Yeah.

So I go there time to time, dive into that thing. Yeah. No, that's phenomenal for recovery. Yeah. That's great. So you're using all most sophisticated materials and equipments. What about supplements? Do you have someone who monitors your supplements and your nutrition?

I try. Yes, for nutrition, always. When I have a fight, I have a chef. Yes, I have a chef. I always do that when I have a fight. But for supplements, I don't know. I'm never able to, like, connect, to, like, I don't know. I never able to like connect with, to like get along with supplement.

I always like, I don't know. Take them, don't take them, forget to take them. Yeah, take them, don't take them. I used to be at the PI and then Glenn, they will always like get those back ready for me and with all the vitamins and how to take it every day and i would take it like two three four days and after just quit yeah did you notice a difference taking or not taking it i don't know it's all hard right i don't know it's all it's really hard one thing that you don't have

to think about with this fight is your weight like you don't have to think about with this fight is your weight. Like, you don't have to make the 265-pound weight limit. Well. Like, what are you walking around at? It's still different because, like, the weight limit, even when I fight MMA, sometimes I get there at 260, below 260. It's not because I'm cutting weight. You're not thinking about it. Yeah, I'm not thinking about it.

I mean, I do work in order to, like, get my weight down, but I I'm cutting weight. You're not thinking about it. Yeah, I'm not thinking about it. I mean, I do work in order to get my weight down, but I don't cut weight. I don't have a big process of diet to cut weight. No, I just train properly and eat properly with the chef and sometimes by myself to get there. But even now, I still have to think about it because based on the game plan you know I don't want to have a extra 10 pound unnecessary 10 pound on me right but at the same

time I don't also want to lose a strain because as I said this guy is a big dude yeah and he has his skills to like to lean on people, weigh them down, stuff like that. I think there's going to be a little bit of wrestling there. I need to get my strength right. So he has to be a balance. And I walk around like 275, 280, my normal weight, walk around weight but i think might get in the fight at 265 i don't know it depends on how we decide to this to go so without giving away too much of your

strategy how do you envision this fight taking place Like, you've never boxed a heavyweight like him before, but you obviously have tremendous skills and power. How do you envision this fight taking place? Well, it's very hard to envision. You know, sometimes I just visualize the fight, me there in the ring. I suppose I'm going to be the blue corner, being there waiting for him to get in the ring. He knows all the sides of the ring.

He's been there. He knows all the corners, how to move, how to cut, everything. And I'm going to be there to figure out how to cut the ring. You know, it's really hard. I think I just got to focus on like being composed, you know, don't think about so much stuff. And again, I would like the knockout, but you know, Tyson is very slicky

and you can't go like you want to knock him out. So I'm preparing in the way that this fight can go all the way to 10 rounds. Yeah. Which is a disadvantage for me. I never fight boxing at that level, you know. So managing my energy, how I'm going to be feeling with all the pressure and the adrenaline, how it's going to be in the ten rounds.

How can I maximise it the most? It's about that. I visualise it a a lot I think about it trying to be there that night waiting for him see him come do his show

you know get there trying to do his slick stuff you know weigh me down slick daily boxing

come close trying to lean on my head because he's taller than me boxing, come close, trying to lean on my head because he's taller than me. But I think yeah.

But I think I'm going to handle that dirty daily boxing properly because usually boxing guy, I have seen a lot inspiring and since everybody want to do the same thing like Tyson like trying to prepare you for that there's still those wrestling trick that you can get into sometime I like I'm like go under the shoulder and step in your back right yeah which is something

that boxer they don't do they don't know so yeah, I don't have to worry about that still. Are you going to have, like, I know that when Sugar Ray Leonard made his comeback, one of the things that he did was he had actual fights. Like, to prepare himself so he didn't have any ring rust, he would have actual fights in the gym with, like, regulation-sized gloves, no headgear, 10 rounds, 12 rounds, whatever it was. He would have actual fights in the gym with like regulation size gloves no headgear 10 rounds 12 rounds whatever it was he would have actual fights i think we had that a lot of time i mean we fight mma with four ounce gloves right right and we don't fight with headgear right right with kicks

and everything uh so i'm not worried about that. And we used to spar, when you're a MMA fighter, they don't spar boxing with the protection. Right. The headgear and stuff. They just go in the gym.

They don't worry the size of their gloves. Right. But boxing guys, they come to the gym, everything is checked. Like, what's the size of the gloves?

The check, the headgears, the this's the size of the gloves the check the headgears the this the cup and all the stuff i mean now i do that to protect myself i have a fight in less than six weeks so i take all those precaution uh but i'm not i don't think i'm gonna do that by now you know if i was six months out, yes, I can do something like that. But now, I have no interest of doing that. I know I can deal with that. I have got hit with four-ounce gloves

in the fight. I've been there. I haven't done boxing yet, but I've been in fighting more than once. So, I'm going to be okay. And one thing that we are going to talk about is Tyson gloves.

He's very tricky with his gloves. I think he's cheating. Is he cheating? Yeah. I've heard a lot of complaints about his gloves, which is like his glove has no protection. Where have you heard this from? Even he fought uh Deontay Wilder yeah he complained about that yeah direct direct direct

direct his aura complained about that yeah and that's what we are talking about the team and then I'm like oh there's the UK commission the gloves I'm like bro we're gonna get there we need every gold gloves to be checked you don't tell me about this commission all the gloves get to be checked i don't want if you want us to fight bare hands bare knickers let's go bare knickers but don't give me a 10 ounce gloves and wear eight ounce or six ounce glove because he has no protection. You really think he's doing that? I think so. I mean, I have heard. Yeah.

I've seen the Deontay Wilder videos, but they're not convincing. Here's why. They're showing those videos in slow motion. And in slow motion, it looks like his glove is flopping all over the place. But that's just because it's in slow motion. When you watch him boxing, he's doing this. You know, he flicks, flicks, flicks. He shows you it, pop, and then he drops a big punch in.

So in slow motion, it looks like it's all floppy, like it's not connected. And you think that the gloves are really, like, just flopping around and where his knuckles are is where the wrap is. But that's not the case, because if you look at the length of his arm, none of that makes sense. Yeah, but his's opening complaints about his gloves yeah i don't know

if they're right i mean there might not be i don't know if they're right we have we have to check that yeah well we have to check that i think it's legit i think he's legit i just think he's that good no he's good he's good and his style his style of keeping that hand loose and flicking. So sometimes that wrist opens way up. And if you look at it in slow motion, people are like, look, his glove's not even attached. His glove's attached. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Because after he does this, he does this.

There's no way he's doing this if his glove's not attached. It's attached. He just looses his hands. Because a lot of his punches, he's just showing you things. He's showing you things. Bang! He's showing you this. And then he's doing all this. So a lot of it is loose and he's just popping you with that.

Like a whip. You know? I think we have nothing to lose by double check. Nothing to lose by double check. Yeah, because there's been more than once that people talk about his gloves. Right, but nobody needs them. And even his opening. Even his opening. Yeah, I'm sure they talk about his gloves. Right, but nobody needs them. And even his opening.

Even his opening. Yeah, I'm sure they talk about it. He kicks their ass. People looking for reasons. Like, Deontay Wilder thought he got poisoned. You know, he thought a lot of things. But, you know, that's because the guy's that good. He's fucking good, man, you know.

And I just think that style, when you look at it in slow motion, it might look like his gloves are not attached, but they are most certainly attached. But in the boxing world, you have to worry about everything. It's a dirty world. You're right. It's a dirty world. You have to worry about everything.

Yeah, it's a dirty world. I mean, if somebody says something in the boxing, you better just double check. Double check. Double check. What has Tyson brought to the table? Like training with Mike Tyson. What did he help you with? And what kind of strategies did he give you? double check. What has Tyson brought to the table? Like training with Mike Tyson. Like what, what did,

what did he help you with and what kind of strategies did he give you? And what, what kind of thought process, like what is his approach to you fighting Tyson Fury? I mean, asking that question makes me feel like you don't really understand. Like I grew up idolizing Mike Tyson. Yes. Right? Everybody did. And then, as having a dream to become a world-class boxer,

my first boxing match, Mike Tyson is in the gym like, oh no, this, that, that. I'm like, come on a moment. Like, this is real. This is how, this is where I get. So it's real. This is legit. Your first boxing match. moment like this is real this is how this is where I get so it's real

this is legit your first boxing match yeah Mike Tyson's in your corner crazy I get Mike Tyson's cheer like even mentally

like just thinking like that like hearing him cheer you on sometimes I'm like yes it's him right like I'm not tripping

you have that check because it's really Mike Tyson. I'm like, okay, this thing is serious. And not only he's there and he believes that you can be this guy. That's how it is. So, like, he put his faith on you, a guy that have done everything in boxing that is there. So, he see me as somebody that can do this we were talking about like mental stuff these some mental stuff that yeah are heavy right

not to mention his technique Mike Tyson has a unique style that um I'm not I wish I had his style but I'm not going to expect to copy his style because it's unique to him well he's also built very different he's built different he was always shot the shortest guy in the room so with his opening which is the case in this fight was I'm the shortest his technique if I can get and then one thing that people always see is how strong he was. He was knocking people out. And nobody was impressed of how he was able to move from left to right. And this, how his footwork and all those stuff,

how he was that short and was able to get into the distance when he wanted to hit and other stuff right yeah who was which is something that very interesting is with Mike Tyson one best thing that you can get from Mike Tyson is the footwork footwork footwork change from left to right you know because in boxing everything is about your foot and his footwork his power was based on his uh base on his footwork yeah you know like when you have a good base your punch is definitely stronger when you you don't have a good base how to have that good base to send your punch when

you're right base right and if you look at mike tyson or his fight in his career he was all about the base the full work yes i watch his training sometime uh on youtube still and then you see how he's flipping i'm like it's not possible that heavyweight can do it that's okay so here's you guys working together look and this was this was four years ago this was the first time that i met mike tyson this was in 2019 on his podcast and he was always about a footwork yeah i mean he was so well trained and when he was young the way he would move in yes yes and he gets you go on that knee i'm like okay everything everything is in the leg in the thigh you do that like twice you know i'm like okay i think i need some low body workout i'm not strong enough yeah he had

a lot of footwork and movement and that's why his leg is like this big, like a tree trunk. Right. A lot of bobbing and weaving, too. Yeah. People forget. They just think he was a hard puncher. Yeah, no. He showed me how he was training for his leg, you know,

go all the way down and do, like, this duck work and stuff. I'm like, man, come on on and that's what he did all this career and people that people don't see that they just see like oh he he hit hard he's strong you know no he's technical and he's hard work technical hard worker tremendous speed perfect technique everything yeah all the above and he hits hard. He hits hard. Everything. I mean, when you combine all those stuff, there's no way you don't hit hard. Right, right.

So does he have an idea, like looking at your frame and Tyson Fury's frame, does he have an idea of the way you should approach the fight? Does he give you pointers, like what he thinks that you would do that would be successful against Tyson Fury? Of course. Because his entire career, he almost fight people that was like Tyson Fury. And that's why I explicitly went to him about this fight.

Because I feel like, again, if I was able to have like, let's say a quarter of what Mike Tyson have, this fight would be an easy fight. Do you think so? Really? I mean, there's not an easy fight, but he'll be an easier fight. Wow.

I mean, out of all your day, 24 hours a day, how often do you think about the fight? Every minute? Not every minute, but well, now that you're talking about it, I don't even know that I'm thinking about

the fight when I think about a fight. Right. It's just natural. It's just natural. It's my life. The most important thing is what I do every day. Even when I don't fight, even when I don't have a fight, I think about fight. It's just like my thing. So I can't tell exactly how often i think about the fight but i know sometime i'll go to sleep and then he will just come in my mind and then you start think you know start exploring

those stuff and sometime it's exciting i mean the most time most of the time is exciting sometime it's also nervous it's uh yes you're also also nervous about the thought that you have. I'm like, hey man, maybe I'm missing this. Maybe I'm not taking this serious. Maybe this, maybe that, maybe that. Which is good because after you have those feelings, those moments that you're not too confident, sometimes you're like,

I think I shouldn't go to bed. I didn't do enough today. I'm like, no, I shouldn't do enough today. I need to do more. So here we are now. What is today? September 21st. So you're about six weeks out?

Five and a half. Five and a half weeks out. Five weeks and two days. So you ramp up now and then you taper off the last week. And when will you be in Saudi Arabia? Earlier. A couple weeks out?

Yeah, a couple weeks out. Three, four weeks. So exciting, man. Yeah. You will be there. i wish i could be there walk around process think about the fight yeah think about everything yeah that single day that your world gonna change yeah how what's gonna happen what would October 29 looks like what do you think's gonna happen gonna be a celebration it's gonna be disappointment what's gonna be October

29 morning feel like the king of the compass board there it is Oh look at that look at that poster damn that's a great poster oh no you haven't seen anything really anything at all the production behind this fight insane we have like five day production really at some point i'm like hey guys but the good thing about the production wherever we are going for the we are going for production i have my team with me there i'm like i still have to train regardless of the promotion i have a fight coming up i have to keep my training schedule and then they bring all my entire team with me from the chef to the coach nutrition everybody is with me so I'm like okay do you have a

prediction for this fight prediction for this fight knock him in out no no I don't want to have a prediction because I will I will wanna follow right that my stick in my mind and I want to execute my prediction right maybe just let it flow properly let it flow get there and let what happened happen just fight focus on fight make sure you fight make sure you're ready to give everything in there yeah some moment it must be so exciting for you to have made that deal though because everybody said that wasn't gonna happen yes i read so many commentators saying francis is wasting his time they're never going to give him a fight and then that was one that that was you were asking me like um if this is a money that was a money too you know once again to prove people wrong hey you motherfucker you were wrong i'm right again well people who don't know your story how you went from cameroon and went to morocco and

got sent back we tried to make it across to europe what seven times seven times seven times and you were i mean i i felt six i first six times yeah uh succeeded the seventh time but that kind of resolve and that kind of discipline and that kind of drive that's very special and you i think you got something from that experience and to prove what you're capable no i don't think you have to know i know you have to know like sometime you know sometime i think about my life why i was going to uh my upcoming going through all this process i was always pissed upset like why all those things happened to me at my cost like what it is that anything nothing can go right for me but when i think about it today even though i can go back to that path i think it was a blessing because

like the life lesson that i have learned from my journey, seems like my journey was just preparing me for this moment, for the life that I'm having now. Like you get to the point that, you know, the moment that I kind of like find out that I'm rich, it's not the moment that I check my bank account and see money. It's not the moment that I check my bank account and see money. It's not the moment that I own a house. It's not the moment that I had a house, a car.

It's the moment that I look, I check myself. I'm like, okay, what can possibly happen to me that I can't handle, that I haven't seen? And I say nothing. I can't handle everything. I can't seen and I say nothing I can handle everything I can overcome everything

so therefore I wasn't afraid of anything I can go ahead and let what happened happen I'm not afraid of falling because I know that I have the ability to stand up and that's what my life taught me again even though i didn't choose that part but he did taught me that way and i think it's like one thing that carries me where i am now yeah so let's talk about your pfl deal so So where are they going to get opponents for you? Like who's in the heavyweight division right now in the PFL? They're going to figure that out. So they'll probably have to hire people, just try to contract people that are...

Yeah. And they are looking for an option because my fight is supposed to be, I'm supposed to fight in the PFL beginning of next year, February or March. So after this fight in October, you'll take some time off and then go to MMA training. Yeah. And then get ready for the PFL. I have, there is some legit people in the division.

there is some legit people in the division. I have this, there is this guy, Reina Ferrara. Mm-hmm. I think this guy is legit. Nobody is seeing him. Nobody is like really talking about him.

I'm like, keep eyes on this guy. You're going to see. He's like six, five, six, six guys, Brazilian guy. But the way he moves, I'm like, the way he box, the way he does things, if you check that guy, you can tell me about it.

Yeah. So there's, other than that, who can there be who is in the roster right now? Ante Delaya. It's Ante Delaya, I think. Yeah. So they're probably going to have to recruit some top-tier heavyweights. They want you to fight them. I wish.

Yeah. Otherwise, they have to make a tournament to get a winner that are going to fight. But I think they need some recruitment. And how many fights is your contract with the PFL? Multiple. Multiple? Multiple. Five, six?

No, no, no, no. Three? No. I can't get those. you don't want to give out the details but you're happy with everything though no I'm happy

I'm happy the way that it goes the way that the structure how how the freedom that I have inside the country

and I'm also more happy and excited about the PFL Africa. Because in the deal, we have this PFL Africa that we have to launch in the beginning of 2025. And that's how we're going to expand MMA in Africa. You know, it's something that I've been working on,

trying how to get this there. And it was hard. And now I get a whole operation that's going to be dedicated for that. I mean, the work is in the process already. But the first event is going to be beginning of 2025. So I'm quite excited about that. I want to see some of those monsters that are in Africa get there, come over and knock people out,

shove their heads up in the octagon. One of the things you've done that's very nice is that you've negotiated a minimum purse for your opponents too, right? Yeah. Yeah. Which is, I mean,

I don't want just to feel like a guy that goes there and grab the money. Okay. Give me the money. I want this. I want that. Right. And then I'm fighting this guy that probably doesn't have a chance because he's struggling. He can't have a proper training.

You know, I'm here having my fancy life, my organized training. I can have all the doctors that I want. I can have the team that I want, nutrition, nutritionist, this coach, that, that, that. And then I fight a guy that didn't have a chance. And he's in this big fight because without him the fight without the opening the fight is not happening so he's a part of it and i'm like okay don't just make me look like they come they grab and go guy what is my opening he's having he's going to be a big moment he's going to be in the big fight right what is it going to be a big moment. It's going to be in the big fight, right? What is it going to be for him?

So we set a minimum of two million for him. Wow. And again, that's a minimum. If they get somebody that have a leverage to negotiate for more, then you can negotiate for more. But if the guy is the guy that doesn't have a leverage, they don't just have to pressure him like, oh, no, you have to fight.

This is an opportunity. We are doing this for you. No, you're doing this for money. He better have his own money. So can we at least guarantee that for this magnitude of a fight, he will have at least two million uh as a purse and that was something that wasn't even difficult to have because again pfl was very open about that he was like that's our vision for the sport uh granted we didn't have to go back and forth for

that yeah it's amazing oh we didn't that didn't take three minutes to get done. Because how much do you think an average UFC fighter is paying, getting paid in the heavyweight division for a fight? I don't know. I don't check their contract, bro. I know how much I was making and sometimes it wasn't fun. I know what I could have made, but I know that I have to pay another price for that.

What other price? Contract freedom. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to... So how good was the money that they were offering you to sign for the UFC? He was good. He was good enough, but...

It's just the other parts of it. The terms. Yeah. A lot of... Where's the PFL getting all this money? Huh? Because they don't have a pay-per-view model. So how are they getting all this money?

They are setting a pay-per-view super fight. They are? Super pay-per-view fight. For when you fight? Yeah, when I fight. And there's also Jake Paul that will potentially fight in the super fight. Who is he going to fight? Because I heard they're talking about him fighting Nate Diaz.

I don't know. If they did that on an undercard with you, that would be a big draw. You know, because their boxing match was pretty close. Yeah. That would be a massive, massive card. But, yeah. I like, and I do like the PFR business model, that structure as a business. Yeah.

Well, my hope is that they, well, it looks like they're buying Bellator, right? Yeah. I heard that. Nothing has been confirmed. I don't know why it's taking so long. We should have been hearing some news. If that happens, that changes a lot. Because then you get some real legit heavyweights.

You get some real legit lightweights, welterweights. Real legit fighters. Yeah. Imagine the roster. Yeah. Merge. The merging of the roster. That would be very good.

Very interesting. You got guys like Johnny Elbin, who's high level, middleweight, one of the best in the world. You've got some really good fighters over there. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. But, you know, importantly for the fighters, there needs to be competition. There has to be options.

There has to be options. There has to be competition. And at the end of the day, you, the heavyweight champion of the UFC, leaving leaving the ufc and going to the pfl is good for everybody i believe because i believe it strengthens that organization which strengthens the opportunities for fighters yeah and uh maybe yeah maybe open uh a lot of fighter eyes be because until some people some fighters most fighter they have like a one-sided vision. They don't see it. They don't even know that they have other opportunities,

which is like something that makes things very complicated for them. And then they're just like, okay, whatever. What else can I do? I have seen people that get caught by the UFC and then they go somewhere else, whether it's in PFR, and I'm like, oh, I have a, wow, I have a new life. I didn't know that I could make that much money in my career. I remember once I saw a tweet, and that tweet stick in my mind.

He was from Corey Anderson. Yes. I think he get caught or he left the usa and then had a deal with bellator and then he went there he said he make a tweet like ufc gives me a career but better talk give me a life i love i love that tweet yeah he said he made way more money in Bellator. Yeah. I wonder why. I mean, like, after this fight, I'm going to go out there, fight in the PFL. And for one fight in the PFL, I'm going to be making maybe twice or three times what I've made in my entire career or in my entire life. That's crazy.

So you understand the difference between career and life? Yes. That's crazy. That's crazy. Good for you, man. Good for you and good for the whole sport. I really believe that. I really believe that all you. And good for the whole sport. I really believe that. I really believe that all that competition is good for the sport.

I believe that too. And I think the sport is really changing. You know, like now we get all those different organizations. And soon we're going to have something in Africa, massive. There's already some organization in Africa that would need to get pushed. Kamaru Osman has his own organization named, I think, African Knockout. There's some organization in South Africa, somewhere else too. But with the PFR, the way that they're going to structure it,

how they're going to fund it this is going to be massive because we are structuring the pfr africa as same as the pfr europe because the pfr is having a region regional um pfr So every fighter from Europe, PFL fighter from Europe is fighting in the one pool to get a champion. Then we can fight in the PFL global. In Africa, we're going to have the same thing. Wush,

they're going to have basically almost the same pay. And when you think about the currency, it's make this in africa like massive massive economy investment in the economy because those guys are gonna have money and they're gonna start think about like how they train properly where would they train with they're gonna finance they're gonna pay people around them and business is gonna grow around it and help infrastructure taking off and those the thing those stuff I'm very excited about it and the reason why

is because like sometime I want to train home and then I realized I can't have even a partner sparring partner legit sparring partner because they don't even have where to train they haven't beenarring partner, because they don't even have where to train. They haven't been training properly. You know, they don't have a high competition. They don't have staff like that. So they can dedicate their time that much for training rather than go working to provide for their family.

Right. You know, but if they were able to dedicate all their time for training, how would that look like? I might just as well move home in a couple years and just cheer and have my training come here. Set something like what you did here in Africa. Nice. Yeah, and just sit there, have my calm,

have my training partners at home, you know. Yeah. Enjoying it from there. And what an inspiration that would be for them. So young fighters that, like, don't know, am I ever going to have a future? And then someone comes from Cameroon, goes to the UFC, becomes a champ, goes to the PFL, fights Tyson Fury, and then comes back to Africa and trains with everybody. I'm back already. It's not like after fight, three, I'm back.

I have a foundation. I have a gym there. We just opened the second location in Douala. And this is a massive facility. That's awesome. That's beautiful. Yes, we were helped by a bedding company named Premier Bed that helped us build this massive in the city

bro that's great yeah in the city and we are about to build the third one we're trying to do like some charity event make them fight because it's boring to just train and train and train you know they need something to move to get motivated by so we put like some events you know like the fight the fight people from different country so they get you get them excited yes focus you know so well and I enjoy that part I enjoyed that process that's beautiful yeah well Francis listen congratulations on getting this deal congratulations on getting this deal. Congratulations on getting this fight.

And I wish you all the best of luck in the Tyson Fury fight and your PFL fights. And if you're fighting, I'm watching. Thank you. Thank you. Unfortunately, you will not be calling. I can't be calling. Come on, Joe. Oh, man. I wish I could.

I can still see you walking the octagon with your mic. I think I'll be looking with Joe around. I won't be there, but I'll be there in spirit. Okay. All right. I love that. Well, thank you, my friend. I appreciate you very much.

Thank you. Thank you, Joe. Good luck to you. All right. Bye, everybody. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Thank you.