The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #149 with Dan Henderson

Episode Date: October 24, 2023

Joe sits down with Dan Henderson, a retired mixed martial artist and olympic wrestler. Check out his new book "Hendo: The American Athlete" now available everywhere. https://dhathleticfitcenter.com/dan-henderson/

the Joe Rogan experience Joe Rogan podcast by night all day hello Dan Henderson what's happening good to see you too man um what have you been up to other than coaching you're coaching a lot I know that I watch a lot of your videos yeah I mean I'm coaching a little bit. Got some decent up-and-comers. But other than that, I've been working on a project where my gym – I own the building my gym's in, and I'm putting a brewery distillery restaurant in.

Oh, nice. Part of it will overlook there. So we're in mid-construction right now. So it's been – we started construction. It got put on hold when COVID happened. So it's been almost the biggest fight of my life trying to get this thing done. But yeah, it's finally going to be done and hopefully end of the year. You're down in, you're still down like Temecula area?

Yeah, in Temecula, yeah. That's a good area. No, I love it there. Last time I saw you was at that casino. That's a fun little casino down there. Oh, at Petranga? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, I love it there. Last time I saw you was at that casino. That's a fun little casino down there. Oh, at Petranga? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, no, I love it out there. I was born and raised in California, so, you know, it'd be hard to leave. I got so many roots there, but, you know, living in Temecula, I feel like I'm in one of the best spots in California. Yeah, it's one of the best. It's most sane. Yeah. It's pretty sane. Yeah, pretty. A lot of ranches, and it's one of the it's most sane yeah it's pretty sane yeah pretty a lot of ranches and it's like normal people a lot of craziness going on yeah you're getting closer to los angeles it

just gets polluted yeah toxic fucking thinking where did you live up there i lived in bell canyon which was like a half hour outside of la which was. Like I had land and a lot of coyotes and a lot of owls and hawks and shit and mountain lions. It's good. It was good, like, juxtaposition. It was a nice relief from Hollywood. I get there, it's quiet. And how was the little community, though, the area?

It's fine. Yeah, it's fine. Like it here better, though? Oh, yeah, way better. I'm never leaving. Yeah. No, this place is the best. It's just the freedom that you get in Texas.

It's just so much. You just get so accustomed to it. Yeah. No, I couldn't imagine. But, yeah, I don't know if I could deal with the humidity of out here. You get used to it. I don't know. I've always liked the humidity of out here. You get used to it. I don't know. I've always liked the heat.

It doesn't bother me at all. You know, I just, because I do the sauna every day anyway, so I think my body's like acclimated to heat. So during the summertime, you don't really have to get in the sauna? I get in the sauna too. I do it every day. But during the day, like getting ready for elk season, I was out in my yard every day for three hours and 105 degrees. I'd just bring a 64-ounce hydro flask filled with electrolytes and water and just drink that. And I would come inside, and it was literally like I went swimming.

I would just be drenched, my jeans, my shirt, everything drenched. What are you doing out in the yard? Just shooting. Okay. Just shooting, you know, getting ready. So I had to practice. So it's like there's only one place I could practice 100 yards. Yeah.

It's in the yard. So I was out there practicing every day. Have you taken a 100-yard shot? No way. Never. Never. I would never do that. Never.

But when you take a 100-yard shot every day, 50-yard shots look like a chip shot. Right. Like I shot my elk last week at 50, and it was easy. It was perfect. It was perfect distance. That's awesome. I knew I was going to hit it. Yeah, I've gotten a couple at 50.

I think one at 60 was my longest shot, but yeah. My friend Cam shot one at two yards. He shot it two yards. A frontal shot at two yards. He just made a video of it. It's fucking crazy. This elk, he was on his knees, and the elk was coming up the trail, and the elk had no

idea he was there. He was just standing there at full draw. And then the elk looked down and saw him there, and whap! And it caught him right in the chest. It went right through his heart. Wow. Yeah, this is the video. This is a real clip of it. So he's moving up this trail, and this is the elk well you'll see the

shot well it's very hard to see you'll see it on his youtube channel it's much better but that's how close he was there's two yards from it that's funny and my first elk i ever shot was with a bow but it was at like 10 feet so three and a half yards but yeah it was in a burn area so there was a lot of like new growth going up and there was a little quakey tree and i saw an elk a couple hundred yards away i called him and he started coming over and then you know i called again kind of in a different direction so he'd kind of go into a nice little spot i could shoot him and i'm kind of jittery getting my my trigger on the the loop you know, my release on there.

And by the time I look up, he's like right on the other side of this quakey, 10 feet away from me, you know, just kind of looking to see where the cow is. And just same thing, plugged it right through the middle. I've never taken that shot. I had an opportunity to do that shot last week at 45 yards, but there was some shit in the way of him, and I don't like that shot. Yeah, not at that distance. No.

That shot's like a 20 and under. I passed right through him. Oh, yeah. It's a devastating shot. Just right at an angle. Yeah. It's devastating if you hit it. I mean, there's so many videos online of guys hitting that.

And it's, you know, they just spray blood and die instantly. Yeah, he managed to run 20 yards down the hill and didn't make it any further. It's a great discipline for fighters. A lot of guys who they leave fighting and the excitement and the intensity of fighting, nothing can match that. And so the only thing that comes close for a lot of them is bow hunting. Yeah, I can see that for sure. I mean, I i've done it i was doing it when i was fighting too but yeah i mean i've been i grew up hunting but never really started shooting animals till i get a little bit older getting a little better at it but it's hard i need to get out and bow hunt a little more

that's my favorite hunt is a bow archery elk hunt yeah no it's the most exciting it's also the most crazy they're screaming and there's so much chaos and you gotta duck those cows and sneak around it's it's fun i love it it's to me it's like the best it's the best way to get meat first of all and then it's also the best way for me to decompress right you know and it's really good meat oh it's the best way to get meat, first of all, and then it's also the best way for me to decompress. Right. You know. And it's really good meat. Oh, it's the best meat. It's the best meat. Yeah.

I ate the heart last night. Oh, I don't know if I can do that. You don't eat the heart? No. It's good, man. You just fry it up. I just put salt, pepper, and garlic on it and butter and fry it in butter. I feel like it would have a different texture.

It does. It's chewy, but it's good. It tastes good. I'm not a fan of liver either. I feel like it would have a different texture. It does. It's chewy, but it's good. It tastes good. I'm not a fan of liver either. I eat the liver too. Yeah. I can't do it. It's good for you. I mean, it's the best meat for you. It might be good for you, but. It's rough. I don't eat too much. I eat a couple ounces in the morning with eggs. You know, I just slice it up and vacuum seal it and freeze it and then thaw it out for breakfast. It's a good breakfast. Gets you going. Yeah, no, I'm not into that. You're more of a man than me for sure. That's definitely not true. So how have you adapted to retirement? I feel like I'm pretty good.

It's not like I have the itch to get in there and do it again. Occasionally when I see some of these guys with a little bit different style, I feel like it would have been fun to match up or see how I do against them. I do it in practice, not with no cameras. Just to see how it would be, not for any type of title or money it would be fun for a lot of guys it's so hard to not resist that urge to come back

yeah I mean I started wrestling when I was 5 years old and 2 Olympic teams and then I started fighting and I fought for 20 years. So I feel like I did enough. You definitely did enough.

You did a lot. A lot more than most over that span of time than most guys compete at that level. And, you know, I felt like I was ready when I was, you know, honestly, my body felt okay. I hadn't really had too many big injuries at all for, for a while. And I just was sleeping, spending too much time on the couch after practice, just tired, too tired to do anything else during training camp. Yeah. So family life was kind of, you know, with the kids

and not spending time doing stuff like that was taking a toll. So I was like, you know, it's time. Yeah. Well, you did it at the right time. And it's good that you didn't come back. It's just like so many guys come back and you kind of wish they didn't. Right. You know.

Well, I wouldn't be one of those guys. If I did come back, I would be. I still feel really good. But I don't plan on it. But nobody's offered me enough money to get off the couch anyway. Well, what I'm interested in seeing is like there's so many different options now with guys. You know, like bare knuckle boxing. Right. It's nice seeing a lot of guys going into that. And I felt like that would be a thing that you would excel at. like there's so many different options now with guys you know like bare knuckle boxing right it's

nice you know a lot of guys going into that and i felt like that would be a thing that you would excel at yeah i hadn't really watched it until i watched chad mendez fight last year and i'm like man i like those rules that'd be right up my alley not like i don't think i'd would i would do okay at boxing straight boxing but not that great i would do a lot better, straight boxing, but not that great. I would do a lot better at the bare-knuckle rules with the dirty boxing. Yeah. Hold on to the guy. Yeah, it's very different.

I really like what Jorge Masvidal is doing where he's got bare-knuckle MMA. It just shows you. It's like when you don't have, first of all, grappling is way better because you don't have the padding over your gloves that prevents certain chokes it gets in the way of stuff but also it's more realistic your hands we talked about this before

I think it was Tank Abbott the first guy who figured out that if you wear MMA gloves you actually can punch harder because you're not worried as much about breaking your hands wrap your hands. Wrap your hands up, put gloves on, and it's not a disadvantage. It's kind of an

advantage. It doesn't necessarily protect your opponent that much. It really protects your hands. I agree. It just seems to me weird that your elbows are unprotected, your knees are unprotected, your shins are unprotected. You can go unprotected. Your shins are unprotected.

You can go bone to bone with that, but not with your hands. Just seems like it doesn't really make sense. Right. And when they first started UFC, there was no gloves, and that's how it was. And when they started wearing gloves, that was my thoughts exactly was more to protect your hands than, you know, I guess without your hands, if your hands break or fall apart, then the fight kind of doesn't happen as well. Yeah. It's just, it's interesting to see how effective it is too. Like Mike Perry has done an amazing job transitioning into bare knuckle.

Like he's probably the most successful at it. definitely the most successful at it from MMA guys. Right. Yeah, I saw him with Luke Rockhold. Mm-hmm. Knocked some teeth silly. Yeah, I mean, when it's just raw knuckle on your face, like a regular mouthpiece, it's not quite good enough. Right. And it's interesting that guys are still using the upper mouthpiece only with bare knuckle.

I would think you might want to use an upper and a lower. Yeah, I always just did the upper. Yeah, most people do. I mean, very few people fought in MMA with an upper and a lower, right? I don't think anybody. Not that I know of. Not that I know of. In boxing, you used to see it.

You used to see guys who had like a full mouthpiece, but it just gets in the way of your breathing too much. Yeah, that's what I have a problem with. Yeah. Do you breathe out of your nose? Can your nose work? My nose works fine. A lot of guys. No, yeah.

I started snoring, and so I went and got a sleep test. But they went in and put a— Cleaned it up. No, they put a scope up there to see how my nose was because they, you know, just like you, they thought my nose couldn't breathe. Right. And he said it was completely clear. No, it was all good. That's amazing.

Yeah. It's amazing that you haven't had too many big injuries. I know you broke your hand at least once, right? Against Vanderlei. Was that the Vanderlei fight? Yeah. That was a wild one. That was in the first round I broke it.

Wow. So I just remember going back to the corner, shaking my hand, saying my hand hurts. And they started talking about something else, what I needed to do. And then I never thought about it again the rest of the fight. Wow. And I was throwing it. So I, you know, just the adrenaline or whatever I had in me just didn't even feel it again. You got some wild highlight reel knockouts.

Some wild fights. I remember the first fight I ever saw of yours, I think it was in 1997. I think you just posted it on Instagram or someone did. It was like me interviewing you backstage. Yeah. Right after the fight. 97. That was like me interviewing you backstage. Yeah. Right after the fight. 97. That was in 97?

I think so. I'm pretty sure. That was when I first started working for the UFC. I think that was a tournament back then. Yeah, what year is that? Does it say? Oh, shit. UFC 17.

It was 17, yeah. Yeah. That was, yeah, 1997. No, 98. 98. That was, yeah, 1997. No, 98. 98. I fought in 97 in Brazil in a tournament just to make some money to keep wrestling, and then I did the UFC a year later. Who talked you into doing MMA in the first place?

Well, Randy and I were training partners forever for wrestling, and we'd always watched it on tv and said you know they'd be fun but I don't know if I'd want to get in there with some of those three four hundred pounders you know right those big fuckers and Randy called me up one day and said hey I'm doing this tournament down in Brazil at heavyweight and they got a lightweight tournament and this is like two weeks before and uh you want to go do the lightweight tournament which is like it was like 176 or something and i was like well okay and i was wrestling 180 and a half at the time so it was an extra five pounds but yeah i i went down and did it but in in the meantime, I guess Randy had already put an application into the UFC,

and they said no, which I didn't know he put in the application. But then he got a call. Somebody got hurt, so he didn't go down to Brazil. He went to the UFC instead. It was like within a week before or a week after that fight. No, not that one, but the one down in Brazil, which was, I think it was UFC 13 was his first one. Yeah, I was there for that too. And he had a tournament against the two big heavyweights.

Yeah, he fought some big muscular guy the first fight. He had a lot of hype on him. And I don't remember who he fought in the second fight. I don't remember. But that was his second fight. I don't remember. But that was like when we first started seeing elite wrestlers. Right. First started seeing Royce Alger, Coleman, all those. Did Kenny Monday fight in the UFC?

Yes. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Kenny Monday. No. Was it Kevin Jackson? Kevin Jackson.

Kenny Monday fought. He fought submission. I remember Kevin Jackson? Kevin Jackson. Kenny Monday fought, he fought submission. I remember Matt Hume submitted him. Oh, yeah, yeah. Remember that? I think I wrestled with Frank Shamrock. That's right. And I had a screwed up ankle from,

I rolled it right before the world championships a month before that. So I went in there wearing wrestling shoes so I could hide the tape that i had on my ankle and frank's pretty good at ankle lock so yeah that was me not knowing anything about it well frank was really one of the first guys that had like a full overall mma game right no i agree really did he had a i mean when he submitted kevin jack like, very impressive. He could submit you off his back. He had crazy cardio, full range of skills. He could strike.

He could grapple. He could do everything. Right. And the cardio. He was, like, one of the first guys that showed, like, cardio could be a weapon. Like the Tito Ortiz fight. You know, his cardio was a real weapon. For sure.

And Tito's usually in pretty good shape, too. Yeah. Well, Tito learned from that fight. I mean, I think that was a big wake-up call for him, how much cardio plays a factor. Yeah. And it's a different pace from wrestling. So that was something we had to learn. Wrestling was a little bit higher paced, a little more action, shorter durations, though.

Right. So I had to learn to kind of pace myself a little bit when I first started doing this. When you first started doing this, what were the distance of the rounds? Was it five-minute rounds? No. The one down in Brazil, I think, was a 15-minute straight round and then maybe a 15-minute overtime if there's no submission.

Then they go to judges. But, I mean, I didn't go. I think I went like seven or eight minutes. The first fight with Crazio was my first fight. He was like a black belt, which I didn't know a whole lot about. After watching that fight again nowadays, it just, you know, I see so many mistakes that I did.

And I didn't know how to punch either. I never sparred before. I never sparred before I fought in the UFC on that one you just put up. Never? Never. Really? Just wrestling? Just wrestling after that.

Well, no, I hit the bag and hit focus mitts and you know it was just kind of awkward to punch your friend in the face you know but after that was like me and randy like fuck we need to start sparring that is so crazy you guys didn't spar at all before the first year that is wild that's wild so yeah i was off balance a lot you know getting hit falling down because you know you just it's when you don't spar you're just not you don't have the same balance or yeah it's just a lot better to practice the way you fight that's so crazy that you fought the first so did you have a striking coach yeah we had boxing guys and kind of kickboxing guys that would come in, but there was no coaches back then, MMA coaches, I should say. And then we just started really figuring out what works really well with our styles and, you know, takedown offense and, you know, setting up strikes.

I think the first real MMA coach was probably Militech. It was probably Pat. Pat and Matt Hume. Yeah, Matt Hume. Good call. Yeah. Those are the first guys that were really putting it all together. Right.

You know? I mean, and even back then, guys kind of didn't know exactly what the right – I mean, now, like, you go to ATT or one of these big gyms. I mean, they have protocols. Like, they know exactly what the right i mean now if you go to att or one of these big gyms i mean they have protocols like they they know exactly what they're doing they have training schedules all mapped out in advance hard days easier days technical days i mean they really have it down to a science yeah monitoring recovery it's kind of crazy when you think about your first fight no sparring at all well yeah my first four fights because there was two fights each each one of those events so and then the ufc when we you fought carlos newton right

yeah carlos newton and uh no alan go as and then carlos two very elite submission guys yeah yeah carlos newton people forgot about him. That fucking guy was good. Yeah, no, he was tough. He was good. Real well-rounded. He broke my jaw. Did he really? Yeah.

Just like at the last minute of the fight, he kind of hit me. He didn't daze me or anything. And then shortly after, five seconds later, I took him down. And when I took him down, my chin kind of pushed against his chest, and it kind of shifted, I'm like oh that doesn't that doesn't feel right. When did you realize that you had that kind of crazy power because it's kind of funny that a guy who started out grappling and didn't do any sparring at all for his first four MMA fights. Was one of the most dangerous strikers in the sport. I don't know.

I mean, I grew up playing baseball and threw really hard. And then, you know, when I started and not sparring, started MMA, you know, I'd hit the pat or or you know focus smiths and everybody'd say oh shit you hit hard it's just natural but yeah so i guess it just took me a while to figure out where to put it there's a few i think gomi i think takanori gomi started out as a pitcher which makes sense you see the way that guy throws punches just fucking whips his whole body into it like a fast put a lot of weight into it yeah it's That's actually probably a great thing to start out with, just to learn how to put a lot of force behind your arm. Driving with your legs and everything.

Yeah, it completely makes sense if you think about it. Your hips, yeah. Because you think about how many guys practice medicine balls now. They whip medicine balls against the wall to advance your punching power. Yeah, that's hard to teach. I mean. Yeah, you either have power or you don't have power. Yeah.

I mean, you can definitely get better at mechanics to make it harder, but not like what a lot of guys have naturally. Right. Isn't it wild? That's a crazy thing because you can't really tell sometimes by looking at guys. Like there's guys that just look – Like me. Well, you look pretty strong.

But there's some guys like they just don't look like they carry that much power, but they have crazy power. Right. It's weird. Power is a weird thing. No, I agree. Like you either have nuclear power or you don't. And again, I think a lot of that is it is mechanics but a lot of that most mechanics come naturally like some of those you know pitchers that can throw the

ball so goddamn fast yeah and some of them are skinny as fuck you know how the hell that you know they just whip that thing around and then there's also your frame you know like some guys just have bigger shoulders bigger bigger hands. They're just naturally designed to hit things more, more leverage points. Yeah, it's just when you think back, like, as a pioneer in the sport, I mean, it's pretty wild what you guys did. Pretty wild that you entered into the sport that at the time was just kind of a way to make some money.

It wasn't – I mean, when I started doing the post-fight interviews, it was banned from cable. The only way you could get it was DirecTV. I actually got DirecTV specifically. That's when you started? Yeah, 97. Because it was – I feel like it was right after – it wasn't banned from cable yet until after I fought. I think it was banned from one of those years it was banned from cable. And there was a lot of shenanigans with, like, Budweiser.

You remember, like, McCain? McCain was trying to keep it out. Yeah, for sure. They were calling it human cockfighting. Yeah, I wasn't a fan of his. No, most MMA guys weren't because it was so ridiculous. Human cockfighting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I wasn't a fan of his. No. Most MMA guys weren't because it was so ridiculous. There was no deaths in MMA to speak of.

Right. Not like in boxing, which we have a few every year. Right. And they were trying to say it was more dangerous. I'm like, I don't think it is. I don't think it is. I mean, everything's dangerous. Even combat sports are dangerous.

Right. But to say that MMA is more dangerous, it's just ignorance. You just didn't understand what was happening. No, yeah. I have heard that over the years, a lot of different things. And I got nothing bad to say about MMA. I mean, I grew up as a wrestler and, you know, kind of competing is what I've done my whole life. And yeah, I don't feel like it affected me in a bad way at all. You know, if anything, it was positive things that made me tougher, made me, you know, have more drive with other things in my life. Well, you're very fortunate that you came out of it on the other end, you know, healthy. Yeah.

We know guys who haven't. No, I know. There's a few guys that are pretty messed up. I'm not saying that it hasn't know, healthy. Yeah. We know guys who haven't. No, I know. There's a few guys that are pretty messed up. I'm not saying that it hasn't affected some guys. Yeah. I'm just saying, fortunately, I went through it fairly good. No, you went through it great. And I think a lot of it was, and Randy's the same way, just being smart in training.

A lot of these guys just bang way too much in practice. Yeah. And I'm always a advocate of sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes in training, if you're training to fight, you have to fight in training. Yeah. And how do you know how to manage that? You know, you just definitely have one – we have one hard, solid spar day a week. And then more technical sparring another day with the big gloves on. And then the other days with the MMA gloves, you know, we're still going hard but not with the striking part. Just lighter strikes, which, you know, it's kind of hard sometimes. Some of these guys, when they go lighter, they slow down their punches

instead of keeping your speed there and your timing and not punching as hard. So that's kind of a hard thing to get used to. It took me a while to have that control. I would accidentally drop guys a lot in practice because I didn't have control when I was, you know, kind of new to the sport. Is there a way that you do now where you train guys to learn how to punch fast but not hit hard? Yeah, you yell at them to, you know, don't do it in slow motion. Yeah, don't do it in slow motion, but also don't connect full clip.

You don't need to hit hard, but don't go slow, you know. Yeah. You just got to remind them because guys just do it naturally. But it's kind of crazy for you as a pioneer because you guys had to kind of figure it out. That word makes me feel old. A pioneer? I hear it all the time now. What's a good word?

I don't know. But you are. That is a good word, but it just does make me feel older. You're the definition of a pioneer i hear it what's what's a good word i don't know but yeah that is a good word but you just does make me feel you're the definition of a pioneer i mean ufc 17 i mean come on man that's uh that was back in the dark days i feel like i should have a fucking panda do some gold yeah yeah but i mean there's no better word for it. But back then, you guys had to kind of learn along the way as the sport evolved. I've always said this, that there's not a sport that you could ever point to that has evolved more since 1993 to 2023.

Oh, no. There's nothing even close. You watch fights today like the Makachev-Volkanovski fight. I mean, everything's so high level now. Everyone's so good in every aspect of the game. Yeah, it was a good—I mean, their first one was a good one. That was a—I didn't expect that. I didn't expect it either.

Yeah. That guy evolved. He got better. He got better, and he figured out a lot of the things that he was doing wrong in that fight and then setting up that head kick with those body kicks. I thought Volk was going to get him this— I just felt like he had more tools and easier adjustments. Did you ever have to take a fight like that on 10 days notice? Because that's what's crazy about it.

They took it so short notice. Yeah, a number of times, especially in Pride. That was pretty common. Yeah, Pride, they would just call you up like a week before the fight, right? I fought Big Nog. He was heavyweight champ at the time and 10 days notice jesus um yeah i mean there was there was a couple other there was i fought uh bustamante on probably a week's notice so when during the pride day two and a

half months after a knee surgery, a new ACL surgery. No way. They called me up. I was hunting out in Colorado, and they tracked me down on my buddy's cell phone up in the mountains and said, Hey, you need to. And I didn't have a contract at the time, and I went and had knee surgery because I tore my knee. And it's like, well, if you don't take the fight, we don't know what will happen with any future contracts.

So I'm like, all right, I'll do it, but you're paying me win or lose, you know, the win bonus also. And so I took the fight. Luckily, I knocked him out real quick with that knee. So, yeah. And who was that against? Bustamante. Bustamante.

I don't remember that fight. I'm trying to remember that fight. It was after he was UFC champ and then left. That is crazy. You fought two and a half months after ACL reconstruction. Yeah. That basically means your ACL was useless. Well, I mean, yeah.

I mean, it was like a minute into the fight. How? Right. What? Okay, now I'm remembering that fight. See if you can find that fight. You got it? Here it is right here.

Now, this was, which way did they do it? Did they do a cadaver? Did they do a patella tendon graft? I did the cadaver because it was a quicker recovery. Yeah, much quicker. Yeah. I did the cadaver on my right knee, and I had the patella tendon graft. I did the cadaver because it was a quicker recovery. Yeah, much quicker. Yeah. I did the cadaver on my right knee, and I had the patella tendon on my left knee. My right knee was good to go in six months, but my left knee, it took like a year before it felt normal.

That's crazy. Which knee is it? My left, my lead knee. And so you're supporting on it. You already threw a kick, so you're trusting it. Do you just not think about it once you're in there? No. Yeah. I mean, I was, I was hiking like 10 miles a day for about four days before they tracked me down up in Colorado. So that's crazy too. Luckily I was, you know, but I was also drinking beer every day. Well, that doesn't get

you in shape though. The beer doesn't, but the't, but the hiking 10 miles a day in the mountains, that's actually probably pretty good for your fucking endurance. You know, oh, there it is. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. That's it. That must have been such a relief to take a fight like that two and a half months after surgery. Yeah, no no it was definitely

a good moment for sure i was a little nervous about it because he's a tough dude yeah very tough dude very tough dude the the funniest thing about that you know the one week that i had at home training i uh threw like a wide left hook and dislocated my thumb. And it popped out. You can see it's still screwed up now. But when I got there, I'm like, hey, can I get a shot to numb my thumb before the fight? Because they can do that there. They don't let you do it here.

Right. They're like, yeah, but you got to go to the doctor. They'll x-ray you. So I went in there and they got one of those things. You could see the – they took an x-ray of me doing this. There was nothing wrong. And then I'm like – but they had the x-ray machine where you could see the bones move. And it's just so weird how the bone just comes right – the ligament is gone.

Oh. So – Is it still gone? Yeah. It's just torn off? Yeah. I just – by that time, I just taped it for about a year, and then it was good. But my other thumb got jammed in the fight.

Like when I was trying to finish him, it must have got jammed, and my whole thumb was so swollen. So I couldn't even wipe my ass. I couldn't take my pants off. I had no thumbs for like a week. So both thumbs were fucked up yeah god yeah wow but yeah that was the funny part about that the pride days were so wild because did you when when when you were under contract with pride did you just like when an event was

coming up just prepare like you're probably going to fight in the event. Because they didn't contact anybody until a couple of weeks out. For their New Year's Eve shows, you know, I knew that I'd probably be fighting most likely on most of those shows once they started. Because that was their big event of the year. And I think I did two or three of those. But I was ready to go the only ones that really that i noticed that was real short notice with those two i you know against big nog and then against bustamante remember when bustamante fought tom erickson in that one crazy event no it was one of those no time limit things or like a 30 minute round or something like that

and tom erickson was like 300 pounds. Was it an MMA fight or was it a grappling? No, it was MMA. It was an MMA fight. I think it was the same event where Oleg Tektarov fought Henzo Gracie. And Henzo Gracie KO'd him with an up kick. It was like the first time we ever saw an up kick. Was that in the UFC?

No. No, that was some one-off. Some of the first few UFCs, they were doing goofy stuff. They had super long fights, no time limits. Right. The first UFC was no time limit each fight. No time limit. They just fought.

And Pride had, when I first got to Pride, it was two 10s. And then they turned it to 10 and two 5s, right? Yeah. Do you like that? I think the the 10 minute round is a good idea i i i liked it because it i thought it separated the men from the boys really i mean about seven eight nine minutes in you know guys start breaking well also if you're a grappler and you take a guy down with four minutes into the round and you know you've got six minutes to go now instead of one minute right you know if you're you've seen the ufc guys struggle so hard to get a takedown and they finally get a takedown and then boom rounds over

right whereas like i just feel like in that situation maybe the right move is to start them in the next round exactly where you left him off you know what i mean no that would that i would like that because you think about the advantage that it is for an elite striker like a alex pejada or something like that if you take that guy down and dominate him in the first round and then the second round starts and he has to go right back to side control or wherever wherever you had him or just do three eight minute rounds or something something like that yeah three eight minute rounds for a championship round that that for rounds or something. Something like that, yeah. Three eight-minute rounds for a championship round. For a championship fight.

I like that. For any fight. Yeah. Well, it's just I think, you know, Chael Sonnen has said this. It's just like no one can really fight all out for 25 minutes. You've got to kind of pace yourself. No. Yeah, and like I said, coming from wrestling to MMA,

I kind of learned how to pace myself. And then then you know sometimes like my my fight against shogun which was five rounds but i got tired because i tried to finish him like in the third round and just fucking shot my wad yeah you know and that fight was fucking crazy that was a crazy one it was probably more crazy to everybody else watching than it was to me really was that because i don't know i felt like i dominated him the first three rounds yeah like it wasn't a close decision on those three rounds the fourth round was kind of close so it could have went either way i I thought. And then the fifth round, he was on top of me, but he wasn't hurting me at all.

So I knew he wouldn't finish me. In my mind, I knew for sure he wasn't going to finish me, and I already won the fight. And, you know, any time he did hit me, I'd try to get out. And he just kept mounting me again every time I'd almost get out. I was so tired. Well, I want to say crazy in that it was entertaining. No, for sure. It was a very wildly entertaining fight.

But a lot of people, like, oh, they didn't know what was going to happen, if he was going to finish me or not finish me. But I knew that he wasn't going to. So that's why it wasn't as exciting to me. It definitely was a lot tougher fight than i was hoping for well because of trying to empty out the gas tank yeah that and and and i thought i'd you know he'd i don't know if he was coming off injuries in the past with some of his other fights where he kind of almost quit and they broke him or finished him and uh so i'm like that was my goal was to go out there and get on him pretty

hard and and try to break him and finish him he's a guy that i feel like maybe fought a little too long yeah maybe yeah and he he uh he definitely manned up and you know was a lot tougher than i thought he was oh he's a tough motherfucker yeah in pride he was amazing yeah than I thought he was. Oh, he's a tough motherfucker. In Pride, he was amazing. In Pride, he was fucking amazing. I think a lot of guys left their best days behind in Pride, unfortunately. A lot of guys, by the time we saw them in the UFC, Big Nog, Crow Cop. Crow Cop, yeah.

Yeah, there's a few of those guys that just— Fedor. Fedor, yeah. The wars that they had in Pride were so insane. I feel like Fedor didn't have big wars, though. A couple, but not where he got hit much. No, not really. I mean, even in the Crow Cop fight, he was basically walking down Crow Cop, which is crazy when you think about what an elite striker Crow Cop is.

Fedor was a motherfucker, dude. God damn, that guy was good. I feel like some of the referees or something told me, like when they were in there reffing Krokop in the UFC, he's out there saying, I'm too old for this shit. Or I don't, you know, like, why am I here type of thing. That's not the attitude you should have when you're out there. Yeah. Well, I think also, I don't know what he was doing when he was in Pride,

but I know a lot of guys when they're in Pride were doing a lot of shit. And then they came over to the UFC and all of a sudden they're getting tested. Whereas in Pride they were saying like specifically, we don't test you for nothing. Like Ensign told me. They did P-Test, but I'm not sure what they tested for. They didn't do anything with it. They just wanted to make sure you were on steroids.

Yeah. I asked them if they would. And the answer I got, well, if we did that, it would be you and no Garrett would be the only fighters we'd have. Yeah. I always wondered. I always wondered like how much of what you saw was guys that were sauced up. We know some guys were sauced up for sure. Yeah.

For sure. guys were sauced up for sure yeah i think a lot of sports have that evolution in there before you know before they get big enough to yeah be concerned about that they're already doing it yeah well then there was the testosterone replacement era yeah and i was the first one to get on that yeah and i and i was like there's no way I'm doing it. I don't want to do that. And, you know, the doctor's like, well, you'd feel a lot better. And I asked the athletic commission if I even could. They're like, yeah, if you get a doctor's prescription and, you know, they say you need it, no problem. I was like, oh, really? Okay. And then everybody started kind of abusing it.

They abused the shit out of it. Fucked it up for everybody. Well, those days, the v-tour days everybody talks about trt v-tour yeah because testosterone replacement v-tour was fucking jesus christ he was when i fought him in pride he tested positive in vegas oh really because we were in vegas their first uh pride event in vegas well you were one of the only guys who didn't show a performance decline when you got off of it. Right.

No, I wasn't taking much. But I was – and I always – even when they weren't testing me like they do now, they randomly show up. And I was asking for the UFC to do that for years even though now they're getting rid of it. Well, they're getting rid of it, but they're implementing some sort of a new program called drug-free sport right but i don't know what that means it might their uh logo might be a wink yeah it depends on how much money you're making them yeah i think they wanted a little bit more control of when the tests were going on because you thought it would show up at six o'clock in the morning and test guys on weigh-in days and shit like that well i mean and and i had i had to deal with that when i wrestled for you know on the national team

top three guys are subjected to that as well and i had that for years you know and then you know i started that's why i was like oh i don't want to do that but they're like okay you can but i would test myself at least once or twice every training camp so I could, if anybody questioned me or how I was doing it, I could show that I'm not abusing it. This is what my levels were during training camp. So I did that all on my own just because, even though I would only get tested by them at the fight.

Did you have to do anything differently once you got off of it, once they removed the TRT exemptions? No. Didn't do anything different, just stop taking it? No, just a lot of that shit's in your head anyway. So I was like, fuck it, I'm just. At that time, yeah, I mean, I'm sure that I was a little bit affected, but I felt like, yeah, I could push through it, no problem, and I did.

And as I got older, though, like in my early 40s, mid-40s, I really started feeling the age a little bit as far as just not recovering. Did you adjust your training to handle that? Yeah, I mean, I made my training camps like a month longer, three weeks longer just to kind of ease into it and not really go real hard for the first two, three weeks and then really start a hard training camp and then taper off a little bit better but just a little bit um shorter practices with more intensity and so going back to being a

pioneer i know you hate that word but you really are i don't hate it how did you guys figure out what's the best way to train like who helped you put together camps like because you're going from this one discipline wrestling which you excelled at and now you're competing in mma and there's so many different ways to do it and nobody really knew exactly the right way to do it there was a lot of like different camps are doing it different ways how did you guys uh figure out i don't know i think you know knowing how much there was to learn in the sport, we couldn't – we kind of broke it up into different categories. You know, one day we're going to spar hard, you know, but we also needed to learn how to grapple on the ground, you know, how to use our wrestling to control certain positions. wrestling to control certain positions so i i think just knowing that we didn't spend every day sparring hard or you know three four days a week sparring hard because we needed to learn

the other shit too so i think it just naturally went that way and and then as we got more older a little bit older and more experienced in the sport you know kind of fine-tune that a little bit older and more experienced in the sport, you know, kind of fine-tune that a little bit. On certain days we do certain harder things and really try not to beat your brain up too much every day, just one day maybe. Yeah, it's kind of interesting that even today there's different schools of thought. Like Sean Strickland spars basically every day. Right. Whereas Max Holliday. He was at my gym for like three years oh yeah was he it's a wild boy yeah i kind of had to let him go oh did you the crazier days yeah no he just kind of gets too involved talking

shit about people i I can see that. I liked him in the gym. I liked him there. He was a great training partner. You need at least one guy in your gym that does that and goes hard and makes everybody else go hard when they're going against them. So I liked it. Other people didn't.

Yeah, he just was too disrespectful to teammates and stuff yeah and as the young sean strickland yeah no this is well you know i i definitely see that and you know i'm you know always rooted for him when he left you know it wasn't like i was like i hope that guy you know right now i always rooted for him i thought he had a ton of potential i was yelling at him to go up away class because he was always trying to make 170 i'm like dude you need to go 185 you'd feel a lot better you you compete just the you'd be fine competing up there but everybody's always mentally afraid be against the bigger guys yeah he's a different fighter at 185 than he was at 170 and 170 you could see he was compromised just like

how i mean he had to cut 25 pounds easy right yeah no he's big he's way too big for 170 but when you saw his fight without asanya were you shocked i i only saw parts of that i didn't see the whole thing i was somewhere else i didn't get to see it it's fucking were you shocked i i only saw parts of that i didn't see the whole thing i was somewhere else i didn't get to see it it's fucking amazing yeah no i i saw parts of it and yeah he he looked great he looked fucking amazing the crazy thing is how good his defense is i thought he would do well against him i didn't think he'd do well just standing up with him that i mean i thought on your side it wouldz would outpoint him a little bit. But I thought Sean would take him down and beat the shit out of him if he got on top.

Well, that's a lot of people don't realize. Sean has a very good ground game. Very good, yeah. Very good. He just doesn't use it very often. He's black belt in jiu-jitsu, good wrestling, good takedown defense. He's solid everywhere, but he just loves to bang. He loves to stand in front of guys.

He doesn't have huge power. He's probably getting better at putting it in better places now, but he's not a big knockout guy, but he definitely adds them up. He's by far one of the biggest pressure fighters that just moves forward all the time. Well, he's also able to do that because of his defense. His defense is so underrated. He's hard to hit, yeah. So underrated.

And in that Adesanya fight, you saw it so clearly. Yeah, he's really hard to hit. So good at moving just out of distance and then putting more pressure back on you, checking those calf kicks. He's quick. Yeah. I was super impressed with that yeah and it's even more impressive you know coming back from an accident like he had to yeah and talks about it it's like my quads all fucked up on his right leg it's like his one leg is just like the quads not even attached yeah which is nuts yeah no it's but again it just shows what the body can do if you just let it yeah you know if you're just mentally tough enough to push through something well he changed his style a little bit because of it you know he stands different than most people

stands very straight up he always has yeah always yeah yeah Always? Yeah. When I'd spar him, I'd have to – I quit aiming for his head. I just aimed for his chest, and it kind of stopped him, and then I could, you know, follow up. If I hit him in the chest, I could follow up and hit him again. But he's hard to hit. Yeah, it's impressive. And he's the only guy doing that sort of Philly shell style at a championship level.

It's, like, very interesting seeing him out there. He looks different than everybody else. Yeah. He's quick. That really helps him not get hit also. Yeah, but it's just also I think when we're going back to the different schools of thought in terms of sparring, he spars every day. Most of his training is sparring.

Right. So when you see him fight Adesanya in the fifth round, the guy wasn't even breathing heavy. I mean, he looked like ready to go five more after that. He's got, like, just his natural ability is his cardio. Among, you know, he knows how to fight well too, but naturally he just has cardio for days. Well, I got to think that has a lot to do with constantly

sparring so the sparring thing is not there's not a lot of tension very loose and very composed and very efficient right whereas some guys like but then again you look at max holloway he's about as good as it gets and that guy doesn't spar at all anymore he says i don't want to get beat up he shouldn't yeah he just says especially the way his fights are typically wars you know oh he's had some fucking crazy wars crazy wars crazy wars but he's like i want to go into those fights fresh and i think that was something that he picked up during training camps like some of the training camps where he sparred a lot he was a little beat up by the time he actually got into the octagon and so now he's like look i, I already know how to fight.

So I'll just do drills and hit mitts and pads and constant conditioning, and it works. Right. Yeah, for sure. But that's what's interesting is, like, there's no one perfect way to do it. It depends upon the athlete. It depends upon the skill set. Right.

No, for sure. And, you know, you know you could like i set certain days to do certain things because of you know how tough certain things are on certain days and you want to go hard then you want to kind of take it easy for a day easier i should say but it doesn't work for everybody some guys just need need a little bit more. Some guys need less. Do you think that's something that you just need to tune in on your own with a coach and with the people that you work with and just figure it out over time, multiple camps? Yeah, I guess.

But, I mean, for the most part, you get what you put into it out of it. So if someday, one day, you're not feeling it, you kind of get in there and you get put into it, out of it. So if someday, one day, you're not feeling it, you kind of get in there and you get lazy, you might get beat up a little bit, but that means you're having to push through some adversity to kind of keep going, which is also a good thing in training to have to do some days. And on the flip side, you might feel great someday and you're the one

beating the other guy up in practice and and i think it's good for the guys to get beat up to have to see how they respond to that right and to have that experience once you actually get in the fight right because it's definitely going to happen in a fight yeah yeah what do you think was your toughest fight do you have a toughest fight? I have the toughest night of fighting. That was when I did that tournament, the rings tournament, the 32-man unlimited weight class tournament. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that one.

How many times did you fight that night? Well, the first event I fought twice, and then I came back and fought three times in a night for the quarters. How much of a gap between the first two fights? So I fought Gilbert Yuvel, Ivo, whatever his name is, the first fight that night and had about an hour probably, which is pretty good, 45 minutes to an hour. And then I fought Big Nog.

And he fucked my knee up. We were in the clinch and he jumps the guard and his ass landed on my leg and just popped my MCL. So my leg really hurt. My knee did. I made it through that fight, beat him.

And then I had about 20 minutes 25 minutes there's one fight in between oh jesus and then i had to fight babalu in the finals and randy was in my corner and and uh ryan parsons and and there i i find out afterwards they're like oh there's no he's gonna be able to fight he was i was just a bucket of shit out there in the locker room it hurt and then uh you know but that fight i'd never made that much money it was kind of it was this was in the year 2000 so i think the most i had uh ever made from wrestling you know and with everything combined was when I fought in the UFC the year before that and made like $20,000. This final fight was worth $200,000.

Wow. Just win or lose, it was a $200,000 difference. Just the one fight? Yeah, the finals. The champ got everything. It was basically win or take all type of thing. If I would have taken second place, I would have had five fights for about $30,000 total. And I made $230,000 instead.

Isn't that nuts? Yeah, and I'll tell you what, when I went out there and they played the national anthem beforehand, that got me pumped up, ready to go. And the thought of $200,000. Did you tape your knee up or anything uh no but i mean there wasn't really much time and i just went out there and fought kind of defended takedowns and and this tournament was uh they had a little bit different rules it was it was two fives and uh the kind of like the ultimate fighter and a possibility of another five if it's They had a little bit different rules. It was two fives. And kind of like the ultimate fighter and a possibility of another five if it's a draw. And Babalu was a fucking stud, too.

Yeah. Him and Noguera were both pretty big, like 40 pounds bigger than me. Probably 40 pounds. Babalu had one of the most horrific KOs early in his career. He fought Brad Kohler and he soccer kicked him with wrestling shoes on remember those days I remember that Brad Kohler was like a bodybuilder he was a tank yeah I remember him yeah he was a tank and Babalu stuffed his shots and and got him down and soccer kicked him into the next realm. Whew. Yeah, I think I remember that.

Yeah, see if you can find that. Babalu was an animal. Very tough guy. Yeah, no, he was tough. Him and Noguera, up to the time when I had fought them, they had submitted everybody in the tournament that they'd fought so far. So Noguera had finished three guys. He hit them with a lot of low kicks.

That was back in the wrestling shoes days. Very interesting. The difference when your amount of grip that you have with wrestling shoes. Big fucking difference, right? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, Babalu is super high level. Yeah, he was tough. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, Babalu is super high level. Yeah, he was tough. So here it is.

He gets him right here. Boom. Soccer kick. What show is that in? Is that in Brazil? Boy, I don't know. I don't remember. 2000, what does it say?

World Extreme Fighting. Okay. 2000 What does it say World Extreme Fighting Okay It was just so interesting January 15th of 2000 Just different Fucking rule sets About a month later Is when I fought him In that tournament

I think it was like February The King of Kings Finals World Extreme Fighting Go and plow Jens Pulver was in there No shit

Wow That Phil Johns dude finals. World Extreme Fighting going plow. Jens Pulver was in there. No shit. Wow. That Phil Johns dude looks like Justin Gaethje. He does. I thought it was at first. Oh, Pele fought fucking Pat Miletic. I forgot about that fight too. John Lewis, Jeremy Horn. Wow. Noguera. Yeah.

Rodrigo. Yeah. Matt Hughes was in there. Wow. Noguera. Yeah. Rodriguez. Yeah. Matt Hughes was in there. Wow. Bunch of legends. Wow. Wow. Just those days, man. That's never going to happen again,

where you have just the emergence of a sport like this that becomes one of the biggest sports in the world. Yeah. I think they should do tournaments again. You think so? Multiple fights in a night. It would be wild. I think they should start doing that and then it kind of gears it up to be an Olympic sport after that. What do you do, though, if you have injuries?

Well, I think you've got to tame down the rules a little bit. What do you do, though, if you have injuries? Like what if alternates? Well, I think you've got to tame down the rules a little bit. But there's typically alternates when they do any MMA tournament. Right. But they have an alternate. Yeah, but, I mean, if someone, like say if you have a war against one. Like say if you have a war against somebody and then in the next round the guy who also fought, he has to pull out and then they put in an alternate and he's fresh. Yeah, I mean, but they make the alternates fight.

Oh, do they? Like my fight with Bustamante was an alternate fight. Oh, I see. I see. So the alternates fight make it true. I actually could have fought again that night. I'm thankful I did and I didn't have any thumbs and a skinny knee. Wow.

Yeah, that would work. That would work where you have a potential alternate. You might need two. Well, if you needed the other guy, I guess you would take the loser of the alternate fight, I guess. I guess. I guess you would, unless you get KO'd. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, even – it's not worth it. Right. If it's in japan like dust him off put some ice on his head yeah yeah it's just is it is interesting when you see tournaments though because it's like you have a built-in super fight right you have you see over the night guys winning and you know their style and so you're looking forward to the matchup when it comes to the main event right I mean that was the early UFC right UFC 17 was tournament mm-hmm yeah yeah the tournaments were wild the first one I went to was UFC 12 that was when Vitor fought Trey Telegman and then he fought

Scott Ferrozzo anyone the heavyweight the heavyweight tournament when he was 19. Right. Yeah. And then Randy came in after that, I guess. Just don't. Yeah, Randy was at. That was back when Vitor was like 240 when he fought Randy. He looked like his trap started at the top of his ears. A little bitty head on top of a huge body.

He was crazy big. He was so bulked up. But I just wonder, like, what athletic commissions would allow you to do that? I know Los Angeles, just a few years ago, when they had Glory Last Man Standing, they had a big tournament there. It was a big kickboxing tournament. Yeah. I wonder if they would allow something like that with some athletic commissions with MMA. Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, I wouldn't see why they wouldn't. I mean, you could tame it down a little bit, kind of like they do the Ultimate Fighter, but, you know, have it all in one night, not over a time. Well, it certainly would be exciting. I think the options that would be interesting are one 15-minute round instead of three fives. I think that would be very interesting.

And then a tournament. That would also be very interesting if they decided to do it. I mean, if someone wants to stand out from another organization like the PFL or one of those. Like the PFL has got some weird point system that they do that I don't really understand. You get a certain amount of points for a submission, a certain amount of points for a KO, and it's like you're ahead in the score. Is that like to go for the whole season to see where you ranked? Yeah.

But I thought the whole season was a tournament. It is. It's only certain weight classes or the whole – It's weight classes. Well, I don't know if they do it with all weight classes but i think that's just how they they run their organization i hope they stop doing that well they're now gonna own uh bellator yeah which is interesting they got a lot of cash apparently a lot of oil money going that direction a lot of investor money yeah listen the more big organizations, the better, I think, for the athletes for sure, for the fans for sure.

And they have Francis Ngannou. You know, Francis Ngannou becomes their heavyweight poster guy and he's their heavyweight champion. It could be very interesting if they throw a bunch of money at it. No, I agree. I think it's great for the sport and you know great for that the fighters yes definitely great for the fighters the fighters can't just have the ufc they and it's good for the ufc too everybody needs competition you know the ufc needs the and it's great for the

fighters if you got the pfl bidding on you you got one championship bidding on you and you got the ufc bidding on you that's a good place to bid. Well, for sure. If there's only the UFC around, you got to take what they give you. Yeah. I was kind of in that boat for a bit when the UFC bought Pride. Yeah. I was in the UFC again, and then Strikeforce came along, and I went there, and then they bought Strikeforce. Yeah.

That's right. That's right. That's what I told the press. I said, Dana is like a stalker chick. He loves me so much he's what I told the press. I said, Dana is like a stalker chick. He loves me so much, he's got to buy the companies. You remember Affliction? They were out for a hot minute. Yeah, I think they basically broke the bank when Josh Barnett tested positive.

He was going to fight Fedor. In the fight, they just cancelled the whole event yep and never had another show Dana didn't know about it I'm pretty sure he was gambling I think he was playing blackjack and I texted him

and I said hey did you hear what's going on I go Josh Barnett tested positive and then he called me up he goes what the fuck's going on and then I told him he's like holy shit he was so happy

oh yeah he was so happy. Yeah. He was so happy. It would have been nice for, I think Trump was getting ready to be involved as a, he was at the event to watch or he was at the previous event to watch. And I think they were kind of grooming him to be an investor. Interesting. That would have been interesting. Yeah.

But yeah. That was back when everybody loved Trump. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Boy, what a fucking thing's changed. He was in all the rap songs. Rappers would always talk about Trump. Everybody loved Trump.

It was like this wheeling, dealing, billionaire character that everybody enjoyed. Yeah. I felt like he'd done a decent job. As when you look at his regulations it certainly helped the economy i mean that guy who was i feel like we were in a lot better spot then than now for sure without a doubt well there's a lot of shit happened covid and the world the world's the world scares the shit out of me right now right now i'm like, this is not good. None of this Ukraine thing, not good.

Yeah, everything not good. Everything scares the shit out of me. I'm looking at all of it going, fuck. Like there's no good solutions to the Middle East. All of it looks terrible. And the Ukraine thing looks terrible. It just scares the shit out of me because it's just like all it takes is one person to fucking launch a nuke and the world changes forever. Right.

And I've never felt like that was a possibility in my lifetime until now. Yeah. I mean, this is – it is a little bit on the unsure realm of how I – I feel definitely a little bit unsure about what what's going to happen yeah very yeah yeah I'm looking at like moving to Iceland or some shit where it's gonna be safe for the fallout do some more uh research on aliens and figure out where to where the next vacation spot is well that would be fascinating if the aliens come down and stop at all yeah they're just gonna listen you dipshits we've been watching waiting it's like uh the way i describe is like two brothers fighting in the backyard the parents like hang on let them fucking work this out and just figure out when one of them grabs a rock then run in okay enough

that's enough yeah i don't know just i've never felt more like the world's on the verge of being forever ruined. This is what it feels like right now. It just feels like I've never felt more like we're on. I mean, this must have been what it felt like at the beginning of World War III, or World War II, rather. Don't say three. I know. I'm sorry.

40 didn't slip. Yeah. Yeah, it's fucked. So what have you been up to other than obsessing over hunting? That's my main hobby these days. But other than that, you know, running the club. We have this comedy club that you went to last night yeah i was impressed it was pretty cool thank you it's been fun that's that's a nice thing because you know in la we had the comedy store and one of the

things that i realized when i moved out here uh there's no real there was no real home base and all these comics had already moved out here there was a shit ton of comedians that decided, fuck California, I can't deal with this anymore, I can't perform. Because they were locking everybody down for like a year and a half. They wouldn't let anybody do shows. They wouldn't even let them do shows in the parking lot of the comedy store. The whole thing was so crazy. It didn't make any sense. And out here we were doing full shows indoors.

Yeah, it's amazing how that is. Yeah, and nothing happened. You know, we're all going to indoors. Yeah. It's amazing how that is, huh? Yeah, and nothing happened. You know, we're all going to die. No one died. I shut my gym down for six weeks. Oh, that's it? Yeah. Nice.

That's good. Yeah. No, I live in a good spot. That is a good spot. And our county sheriff, you know, said, fuck you, Governor Newsom. You're a hypocrite. I'm not going to arrest people for, you know, being responsible and owning businesses

and still trying to make their money and keep it afloat. Well, it destroyed L.A. I mean, it destroyed the restaurant industry. It really did. It destroyed it. At one point in time, they lost somewhere around 70% of all restaurants. It was just insane. Wow.

Just insane. And they never corrected. Because you know what it is? The people that run the government, the amount of money they make is not dependent on whether or not businesses stay open. If it was, they would have never shut jack shit down. If they worked it like,

say if you work for a company and you're a CEO and the company makes a profit, you get bonuses. Right. You get bonuses based on the amount of profit the company gets. If the whole state lost money and the economy crashed, that should be reflected in your paycheck. I agree 100%. And if the whole state kicks ass, that should be reflected in your paycheck. Right.

And if that was the case, you would have seen a completely different response. They would have been like, ladies and gentlemen, you just need to get vitamin D and everybody needs to start drinking water and exercising and losing weight. And here's some ways to boost your immune system. Instead of everybody has to stay indoors and all the kids have to fucking be home

and mask up. And it's just nuts. It's just nuts to watch it all work. And so many people stepped in line. So many people were like, okay. And nobody got angry about it. I was one month in. I was like, what the fuck is going on?

I started looking in May of 2020 because I was like, these motherfuckers are never going to let this go. They're never going to let this go. They keep ramping up all the new regulations and ramping up what can be closed. They shut out outdoor dining, which made no fucking sense. None of it made any sense. And that's when I started moving. When I came out here, first thing we did with my family, we went to a restaurant. We sat indoors and my kids were like, we can eat at a restaurant? This is crazy. And we went on a lake on Lake Austin. We were looking at this house And we went on a lake, on Lake Austin. We were looking at this house, and we went on a boat on the lake, and there was people jumping in the water and drinking and playing music.

And my kids were like, I want to live here. So then I was just talking my wife into it. It's like, come on. Like, listen, if we don't like it, we could always move back. Where was she from from L.A.? Well, we both lived in L.A. for 20-plus years. Yeah. You know, so I had all these friends there.

I had all my business was there. Everything was there. You know, comedy was there. Everything was there. But I just didn't like, I don't like people telling me what to do, especially people that are hypocrites. Right. And those photos of Newsom came out when he was dining indoors with no mask on. And it's like these fucking people.

And his kids were still going to school at a private school. Yeah. All of it. The whole thing was fucked. It was just the whole thing was fucked. You're just allowing these people that I never thought about who the governor was before. I never thought about who the mayor was. Me neither.

It didn't matter. And I never really cared. I didn't care. I did what I had to do. And hopefully they did a good job and they didn't fuck the economy up. Now we need Joe Rogan in there. Fuck that, dude. You don't want me. You don't want me in there. I would rather have you than...

Yeah, you probably would. You'd probably want to have me in there, but they'd probably assassinate me. It wouldn't take long before I'd be like, hey, why are we spending money on all these things? Fuck out of here with this. How many people are working on the homeless committee? Oh, fuck. Get out of here. We looked into that. The homeless thing is nuts.

There's people on this whatever governing body that's supposed to be handling the homeless crisis. There's people on that that are making $240,000 a year. They have zero incentive to get rid of the homeless problem because then they don't have a job. Like, what are you going to do? Are you going to transfer over to somewhere else and make the same amount of money? They could probably use that money to actually help homeless out. I don't know how the fuck they do it. They've ruined it.

It's gotten so bad that I just don't know how you turn it around. Well, I think a lot of homeless, a lot of it stems from getting mixed up with drug use and being dependent. Drug use and mental illness. That's the primary cause of most of it. And they try to make it seem as if it's just people down on their luck. There's a few. Probably should have finished that wall. Would have helped. That's what the craziest thing is that two things are happening simultaneously.

The southern border, wide open, and people are pushing for people to be able to vote with no ID. Those two things are insane. No, absolutely. Did you see that they're sending people back from Venezuela? Because Venezuela has a communist government. And the people that come over to here though they escape socialism and those people are most likely to vote like Cubans do in America Cubans in America vote Republican and so when they're having these issues sure they're trying to like actively send

Venezuelans back to Venezuela it's so transparent I don't care what their other excuses are. The fact that they're targeting Venezuelans and that Venezuelans 100% hate socialism, the ones that come over here, it's nuts. I mean, look, there's always these periods in history where things get bad and then they get better again. They get bad and they get better again. I mean, things were great for a long time, but they're on a slide and we got to pull out of that fucking slide. Yeah, for sure. And if we don't, it's not good.

I'm real nervous about next year. Real nervous. No matter who wins. Right. The country is going to be in a frothy uproar because of this fucked up media that we have. Right. No, I think they're the biggest problem that we have. Yeah.

No, they are. They are the enemy of peace. On both sides, not just. Yeah. No, I think they're the biggest problem that we have. Yeah. No, they are. They are the enemy of peace. On both sides, not just, yeah. Yeah, I agree. Well, their business is just get people riled up, get people paying attention. And the most outrageous shit that they can say, the most outrageous stories they can publish, those are the ones that are going to get clicks. So those are the ones they publish.

And then everybody gets into this frothy panic in the meanwhile. It's amazing the spin that they could put on you know if if both sides were airing the same exact story it sounds like two completely different things yeah yeah it's crazy there's no like real like objective news source that everybody trusts anymore there's not one thing where you go oh this is the bubba bubba news they're always legit above board it's a complicated issue and they're going to lay out all the different sides to it. No. Everything's got to spin to it. It's not good. It's not good. It's not good and I don't know how it gets better.

Yeah, I don't either. It just sucks that you have to think about it. For most of my life, I didn't really think about it that much. I never did. I was worried about wrestling and then fighting and then, you know. Simpler things. Yeah. Getting shit, getting better at what I did. Yeah.

And I would never, never go into politics, so it didn't matter to me. I never really cared. Just like what you said, I was the same way. I didn't really pay attention to much of it until recently. I talked to Dana White once. I said, you should run for president. And he's like, dude, the skeletons that would come out of my closet, it would be like The Walking Dead.

Yeah, that's absolutely true. Of course. Of course. I mean, that's – they don't give a shit if you'd be good at your job. They just give a shit about getting their side in. Right. Yeah. And this country is so polarized.

The whole right versus left thing is so crazy. Yeah, I feel like racism is a lot worse than it was before all this just because they talk about it all the time they're talking about it too and and when it's not even there they're still talking about it yeah they're making an issue and they're stirring the pot yeah because that's what their job is their job is just to get people outraged i mean if your business is just to get people fired up and paying attention to things and angry that's what their job is. Their job is just to get people outraged. I mean, if your business is just to get people fired up and paying attention to things and angry, that's what they do. It's just our job to kind of like figure that out now. And I think trust in mainstream media is at an all-time low.

I don't think there's ever been a time in my life where people trust the mainstream news less. Well, I know that I don't trust them, but I don't know how even, I don't know. Well, no one's watching them. CNN got its lowest ratings since the 1990s the other day. They have 43,000 people watching. You know how crazy that is? And that's 43,000 people worldwide or just in the States? I don't know.

I mean, I don't know. I was just reading it. It's crazy, yeah. But even if it's just in the States? I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I was just reading. That's crazy, yeah. But even if it's just in the States, that's nuts. That's nothing. Especially when they do the points on how many millions. Yeah. I mean, that's literally a Taylor Swift concert.

And not even a big one. It's one of her smaller concerts. Wow. Yeah, it's nuts. But I would like to see the UFC in an arena. I think the UFC could do that. An outdoor arena? Yeah, that Raiders arena.

I think they could do that arena. Like what Pride did in K-1? Yeah. In the Tokyo Dome? Yeah. Saitama Super Arena. No, that's enclosed. Oh, is it enclosed?

Yeah, it just stretches. They had a big arena. I didn't go to it, but they had like 80-some thousand people there at that. I think it was a New Year's Eve show. The only problem with that is you have to hope it doesn't rain. Yeah, and I think they had people skydive in. Oh, look, obsessed with Las Vegas fear. Eyes UFC card at venue in 2024.

Oh. I've heard about it. I haven't been in there yet. Have you been in there? No, I haven't. I've seen it in videos and stuff. It looks insane. When you're inside of it, the entire thing is a screen.

Like everything, the ceiling, all the walls. Have you seen it? Have you seen the videos of it? No, I haven't. It's fucking bananas. Like a concert. I've heard that it's crazy. Yeah. Crazy good concerts yeah oh my god how many is his seat jamie 18 oh that'd be perfect for a ufc yeah that and then you could show the replays on the ceiling

you show the replays everywhere so the guy knocked out could see it too. Oh, boy, yeah. As he's on his back, you see the head kick land. When you look at the level of fighting today and think about how it was when you started, are you proud? Are you proud that you were part of it in the beginning? Well, yeah, I'm definitely proud that I was part of that journey but i mean i don't i i i i still feel like there's certain things missing on some of these guys you know they're just not great at certain yet some at anything any one thing some of them but they're really good at everything but not spectacular not specialists yeah yeah we have a few guys that are specialists, like Pejeta.

You know, there's a few of the elite kickboxers. But then you see more, you know, you see where the holes are in their game, too. Yeah. I don't know. But, yeah, I think it's definitely evolved into, you know, some guys that are extremely, a lot more skilled and talented than back in the day, for sure. For sure. I just think, maybe I think what's missing is some of the,

just the old school attitude. Well, the old school guys did it because they wanted to do it and there wasn't really much money in it at all. You had to be really kind of crazy. You know? Yeah. Well, you had to be a wild motherfucker to enter into ufc1 or ufc2 or ufc3 i mean it was just you had to be fucking crazy it was funny i i i came home

from the 92 olympics and i was in my hometown in victorville which is in the middle of nowhere and i went out to the local bar and some guy was in there talking in victorville which is in the middle of nowhere and i went out to the local bar and some guy was in there talking to me about hey you know we're getting ready to put on this show you know we're going to see who the toughest uh toughest guys are you know from we're going to have a wrestler boxers and and and he's describing the ufc and and it happened about three months after that. It's like, yeah, we're putting together this show. We're about to do it, you know, blah, blah, blah.

Next thing you know, the UFC started. Wow. I have no idea who that guy was. Just some guy you met at a bar? Yeah. I wonder who it was. Yeah, I don't know. I wonder what his gig was, what role he had in it.

I found out about it from a local video store I think someone had told me about it and then I rented UFC 2 it was 94 and I just moved to LA and I remember watching and going holy shit they did it because I always remembered thinking when I was back when I was kickboxing and taekwondo like everybody always wondered what would happen if a judo guy fought a wrestler what would happen of a boxer fought a karate guy but to see it all actually happen like holy this is nuts and that was back when you know hoist gracie it was just kind of getting started and then jiu jitsu was everywhere just jiu jitsu schools just popped up everywhere right and it was just like of getting started, and then jiu-jitsu was everywhere. Jiu-jitsu schools just popped up everywhere.

Right. And it was just like a complete revolution of martial arts where there had never been anything like that before. There was a John Peretti thing. Was it World Extreme Fighting? Remember he had that? Yeah. He had that event.

With John Lewis, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. John Lewis, and that was um mario sperry was in that maurice smith conan silveira you know there's a lot of like good fighters that came out of that as well there's a few of these organizations that were emerging and then in japan there was rings and k1 and you know and then pride emerged And at one point in time, Pride was bigger than the UFC.

It was fucking huge. Yeah, I think they just hit, them and K-1 got in a pissing match with, you know, with something and they really kind of crippled each other. I can't imagine how they did it. It was so big in Japan. I can't imagine that it fell off as much as it did because it was so much bigger in japan than the ufc ever was and i think they they had a bigger audience uh internationally also not in the states than the ufc but

internationally like in europe and and because they would really get a lot of european fighters and brazilians what was it was a hardcore there was a hardcore base in america that watched it i remember guys from uh jujitsu school like when they would air it live they'd come over my house at like three o'clock in the morning to watch it i forget when it would air and or sometimes it would air like you would have to like stay offline and not find the results for a while and then try to watch it. Yeah, and they delayed it. But those events seem so insane. Those events seem so incredible.

What was the biggest crowd that you fought in front of over there? I think, I don't know, 65, 70, somewhere in that range at Tokyo Dome. Like it was sold out for New Year's Eve. Wow. I don't even remember who I was. What is that like? I don't know. Any other day, but definitely a lot more energy.

What I liked was, you know, as a fighter, they did like their opening ceremony was pretty cool to me. And, you know, you get up there and they do a big show and then they introduce all the fighters. I think that was pretty cool, a way to do it. And it's just part of their culture too, you know, putting those athletes. The pageantry. Yeah. Yeah.

So I do miss that as well as other things with the show. But they put on, and this is what I always say, everybody used to say, oh, it's better, you know, it's better fighters, the UFC or Pride. You know, I'm like, I don't know. I think they both have great fighters, and they're probably pretty comparable, but there's no comparison to the show they put on.

Pride just was a show in addition to the fights. And also the walk-in, like the walk-out was giant. It was crazy. Pyrotechnics and fucking giant screens. And it was, I mean, it was an event. No, it was unbelievable, yeah. And I put certain fighters in that era up against anybody i mean i think i think cro cop in his prime over there is one of the scariest heavyweights ever

fedor in his prime over there without a doubt if not the best heavyweight of all time definitely there's like it's a there's an argument between him and a couple other guys. I agree. You know, there were so many great fights over there. Yeah. Yeah, there was quite a few. And, you know, when they started trying to do, you know, kind of work with UFC a little bit, UFC would send in some of their guys over, Chuck, and Rampage would get over there.

Even though Rampage had fought there before. And I think that 10-minute first round really hurt some of those guys. Yeah, it was different. They sent Chuck over there. I remember he KO'd Alistair at 205. Yeah. That was when Alistair was skinny. Yeah, and he fought with, what's his name? at 205. Yeah. That was when Alistair was skinny.

Yeah, and he fought with, what's his name? He's from Dallas, I think, from Chuck. Guy Metzger. Guy Metzger. Yeah, that's right. And Guy was beating him, knocked him down, and then, you know, I don't know what happened, but he got caught. Yeah, Chuck caught him. Chuck could bang.

Chuck had crazy chin, too. His ability to absorb shots was nuts. Yeah. He was willing to, and obviously that cost him in the long run. Yeah. But he had an iron chin. He would just bite down on his mouthpiece and just eat shots. Yeah, you try not to be known for that.

Yeah. It never really turns out well in the long run almost every guy that winds up you know that has that sort of style eventually winds up getting KO'd right eventually the the foundation just falls apart yeah doesn't take much sometimes and you hit and you get it in the right spot yeah well. Well, you know, do you have KOs that are like some of your most, like the Hector Lombard one, I was just watching that the other night. That one was nuts because we never saw you throw a head kick before. I threw three head kicks or high kicks.

They weren't close to the head because I just wasn't that flexible against Rich Franklin in England. But I fell to my ass every time I slipped. So I had thrown him before, and I'd throw him in practice. But against lefties, I kind of had this thing where I kind of changed levels, like I'm going to kind of look at your legs, and my head kick comes up there. And he's short. So I was able to land it.

That's a guy that I think people miss his prime too. Cause his prime was in Bellator. He was fucking starching people in Bellator. Hector Lombard in Bellator was a fucking terror. He was a terror. He was so athletic and he was so fast and powerful and that judo background you know i remember uh when he came to the ufc he had a few fights like that like the nate marquard fight was a good example of that where you saw like that same sort of hector lombard yeah he comes in fast and strong and then you know you gotta weather the storm a little bit

well you caught him with the head kick and i think if i remember you gotta weather the storm a little bit well you caught him with the head kick and i think if i remember correctly you hit him with a back fist uh back elbow a back elbow and then you elbow them on the ground yeah yeah that was the the elbow on the ground when he first came here from um australia is he he was cuban but he went to australia for it and lived there and when he first came to the states he came to my gym first for about three months and uh nobody liked him he was a big bully just trying to knock people out warming up or oh really you know just when you're supposed to be going easy just trying to hurt people. And it would happen every time I'd be out of town. I'd come back.

I'd hear about it. And Sokajew was in there too, and he fucking put him in his place once. So when I went to fight Hector, you know, the media has, like, asked me, you know, Hector's saying how he never – he left your gym because he never felt welcome, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, well, I never had a problem with him. But everyone in my gym thought he was a big bully. Yeah, and that's all I said about it.

And we're in the face-off, like week of the fight. And he asked me, who says I'm a bully? And I'm like, what did you say? And, yeah, who says I'm a bully and I'm like what did you say and yeah who says I'm a bully and I'm like everybody everybody said you're a bully well who everybody at my gym

not me but everybody at my gym and he just couldn't get over that and I'm like you motherfucker this isn't the time or place for that I'm gonna fuck you up so that those last couple elbows were a little more personal it's probably the only fight I've ever really felt that way that I really wanted to fuck that guy up not the Bisping fight no I just I it was just a fight to me and I didn't like him but you know it wasn't a guy that I'd hang out with but But, you know, he was just him, and I knew that I would beat him.

But that logo that you have, the flying punch, that is the ultimate fuck you. That logo is so wild that you put that as your logo. But I don't even know why he's upset about that because he's not even in it. There's no right to. Yeah, but he knows what it is. Everybody knows what it is. It's not like a chalk line on the ground underneath him. I remember when I saw it, when I saw that logo for the first time, I went, oh, shit.

Because that, I mean, you flattened him with that right hand. I mean, he was out cold. And then you launched yourself through the air and smashed him with that right hand. I mean, he was out cold. And then you launched yourself through the air and smashed him with that right hand. Yeah. And it was that. But that becoming your logo was one of the wildest things I can believe. I mean, that's a crazy logo. I mean, everyone has to know what that is because otherwise it wouldn't even make sense.

Like, what is he doing? Right. Is he about to do a cartwheel? You know what I mean? It's not like, you know, you're throwing a head kick or you're throwing a punch. It's like you're flying and your arm is above you like this. Well, what about Air Jordan's logo? There's no basket there.

That's true, but no one winds up with a massive concussion after that. You know? It's a great logo, though. It really is. had photoshopped him on like some shoes i think i posted that not too long ago oh photoshopped him out no that logo like oh like oh like a michael jordan yeah oh that's cool yeah there's a lot of guys that make custom sneakers they should make you a pair of those. Why not? Yeah, why not? I don't wear shoes that often.

So how often are you still training with guys? You still work out with guys? I need to. I'm getting chubby, so I need to start working out. Yeah, well, I don't drink that much beer, but, you know, I'll have... Just food? Yeah, just everything. I like to cook.

I'm pretty good at it. So i just need to start working out a little more i'm not too bad but for not doing shit i mean i made it might have worked out once in the last six months oh really yeah no it's not good oh no it's the least i've ever worked out in my whole life just i don't know maybe having to do it for so long well that does happen to a lot of fighters you know they get fat after they're done fighting. They're just like, fuck, all the weight cutting, all the bullshit. You just get so tired of it. You just want to enjoy your life now.

Right. I don't know. I just, I don't know, maybe I just got lazy or something. It's not about, I don't know why. You still look good. I'm at my gym almost every day, and I coach and stuff. But I feel like I'm still capable of doing a lot of things. The last time I have worked out, it always goes well.

Are you thinking about just training a little bit now? Yeah. More grappling stuff, trying not to do the sparring part as much, even though I'd probably get antsy wanting to spar just for fun but i'm sure you would when you were uh training what did you do for recovery like were you uh like guys today they've got massage therapists and saunas and cold plunges and all that jazz did you did you have uh like a sophisticated way to recover when you were training? Yeah, I would try to sauna, you know, and I do get – I would get during training camp a massage probably twice a week. And they were about three hours long each time.

You remember my masseuse Mariah? I do remember her because she told me that working with you was like working with wood. She said you were so dense. She said she'd never massaged anybody who was so dense. She said it was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So she actually owns a business that's in my building where my gym is.

It's called The Lab. But they do like IV therapy. Oh, that's great. And hormone replacement also and and peptides and all sorts of different are you doing all that stuff uh i do some peptides and i do uh yeah i still i do the hormone replacement as well i work with another company like an online one too blokes it's pretty good for it's virtual so it's's super easy for me to, I just, I don't even have to go anywhere and just do it all myself. I'm so glad guys are doing that now.

Right. Because, you know, peptides are a thing that, that was one of the sticking points with USADA. They were stopping guys from using BPC-157. Right. And they allowed it for a while, and then they stopped using it. Like, come on, guys. All this is doing is helping people recover. That's all it's doing is helping people recover from injuries.

Right. For injuries, not necessarily anything else. Yeah. They got a new one that's pretty good, too. I forgot what it's called. Something 5,000 or something. Hmm. I forgot what it's called.

But, yeah, it's for injuries as well. But, you know, the FDA is trying to stop people from taking that, which doesn't make any fucking sense. Yeah. But they're not stopping people from taking opiates. Right. It's nuts. So, yeah, she's doing that. But, yeah, I would do massage therapy for recovery and sometimes an ice bath.

I'd ice things down. Depends on what's hurting. and sometimes an ice bath. I ice things down, depends on what's hurting, and supplements and eating good during training camp. But no stretching? I would get stretched after the massages. I just couldn't imagine how inflexible you are and how powerful you were. It was just nuts to see you move it around, try to touch your toes. I feel like because I'm not very flexible,

it kept me from getting in bad submission positions sometimes. Interesting. They couldn't move you. Yeah. I've heard guys say that, that being inflexible gives them more power And I'm like I don't know I mean when I was a high school kid I was pretty flexible And just slowly over time

I just Petrified I guess Well you got dents My dad was the same way Just the same body type So it was just genetics, you think? Yeah, for sure. My sister's that way, too.

Do you ever wonder what it would have been like if you started today? Like how much further you would have progressed? I would have probably made more money. Oh, for sure. A lot more money. What's the most you ever made in one fight? Well, the most I ever should have made in one fight would have been when i fought biz bang because i i had pay-per-view in my deal and uh they the second biz bank fight no the first

first one the first one and i when we coached on the ultimate, we were going to be main or co-main. I think GSP fought that night, and then Frank Muir and Brock Lesnar were supposed to fight at a different event, and somebody got hurt, and they pushed them to that event. So Dana bumped me down to the third spot and promoted it still as a co-main, didn't pay me pay-per-view oh i'm like so it would have been like three or three and a half million for that one what did it want just pay-per-view uh a couple like 300 grand oh shit but the most i've ever made, I think, is probably around a million. Do you remember what fight that was?

Well, there was a whole contract of that. Like six fights, I think. Oh, I see. Plus certain pay-per-views, depending on the event. That one's got to suck. That one's got to sting, the three million one. Yeah. that one's got to suck. That one's got to sting, the $3 million one. Yeah, and, you know, you'd always hear stories, not me, but about Dana, you know, giving a bonus or whatever.

You know, I never saw that, so. You never got one of those locker room bonuses? No. Well, I mean, knockout of the night I got, but. Yeah, but not one of the big ones. Yeah. Well, that sucks. So, I mean, I didn't take it personal but i did go to strike force right after that yeah did you what did you think about strike force strike force

had some great fights yeah i thought they i mean i love scott coker he's well i, he just has the fighters in mind all the time also, not just the bank account. So, yeah, I feel like Strikeforce had some great fighters. They, you know, had certain things that UFC definitely did better. You know, they were a little more organized with certain things. But overall, Strikeforce was, I liked them quite a bit. Well, it was definitely nice having another major organization. Yeah. There was Elite XC that lasted a little while.

Remember that? Yeah. Kimbo Slice was their big guy. Right. That was pretty fun. I think that was on CBS, right? Wasn't it? I think that was on CBS, right? Wasn't it? I think it was.

I know Strikeforce had a CBS show. And then I fought on that card against Jake Shields. And then the Diaz brothers got in a fight with Mayhem. Oh, that's right. That's right. And I'm like, dude, this is not good. And then the announcer said, sometimes these things happen in MMA. We were like, what?

That's the only time it's ever happened. The only time it's ever happened. Yeah. It almost happened with Johnny Walker this past weekend. Yeah. That was a weird one, wasn't it? That was the weirdest one. That one didn't make any sense at all.

They asked him where he was and apparently he said, I'm in the desert. Yeah, which is a good answer. He's in the desert. He's kind of a good answer. He's in the desert. He's kind of a funny guy. He's kind of eccentric. He's eccentric. You ask him a question. He seemed fine.

He seemed fine. They asked him where he was. I'm in the desert. Okay. Do you know what country? But he also looked confused when he's standing there looking at the guy and not saying anything. But it was hard to hear what was going on. Also, he doesn't speak English as a first language.

Yeah. So there's that too. Right. You know? I thought the stoppage was. Ridiculous. Yeah. Well, that's one of those ones where I think, like, why when a referee calls it off like that,

why can't they restart it? Oh, yeah, I don't understand that either. They did it, I think Randy might have fought on the card. It was a UFC in Japan, Sakuraba, I think. In Konan, yeah. And he wouldn't leave, and then they restarted the fight. Yeah. Do you remember that?

No, they fought again. They fought again another time. No, they started the fight again that night. Did they? I'm almost positive. I think they fought again that night. I don't think they fought again immediately. No, I think it was immediate.

Was it? It was there. Oh, interesting. Why do I have it in my head that they fought later in the night? Because they hit him. You're saying the same night? Yeah, the same night. Maybe they did that.

That's what I think they did. Because Conan hit him with an uppercut and Sakuraba dropped down for a low ankle. Right, and they stopped him. And they tried to say it was a stoppage. Do you remember Matt Lindland and Bustamante? Yeah. down for a low angle right and they stopped and they tried to say it was a stoppage well do you remember matt linlin and bustamante yeah that was a crazy one that one too yeah even though he did tap he did tap he caught him matt linlin got caught in an arm bar tapped he said i didn't tap i might have been in the corner i don't remember you might have been and then he they started and

then they went a whole another round and then the round after that he caught him in the guillotine so uh bustamante tapped him twice yeah that was nuts but that was you know i mean i would like them to look at replays and say oh that's a tap and that makes sense but in that case of the one this weekend with ankolyev andev and started up again. They're both fine. Everybody wants to see the fight. What's the formality?

Like, what's the point? There was. Yeah. Didn't make any sense. Because he didn't understand what I asked him. It's also like check his eyes. Like also when someone gets hit with an illegal shot, don't they have a certain amount of time to recover? Like why?

Yeah. So why is the doctor in there immediately anyway and and i didn't they called it a no contest but it was questionable if because it was kind of a it was definitely illegal right which means disqualification which means disqualification but he called it an unintentional. But he intended – yeah, so I didn't understand that. Yeah. So – but yeah, I don't know if maybe – and I don't know Johnny Walker, but I didn't know if he was kind of playing it off like I'm going to get the win if I don't.

Interesting. That's why he looked like he was confused at the question. That was curious to me as to why he was just, you know, looking at him. Well, I don't know how well the doctor spoke English either. Was the doctor an English-speaking guy? I don't know. Johnny isn't. Johnny can speak a little bit of English, but when I've interviewed him, he speaks Portuguese.

So when you're talking to him in English, he has to really pay attention. And there's nothing wrong with that answer. In the desert, it's true. Where are you? I'm in the desert. He's in the desert. He's telling the truth. It's not like he said, I'm in Hawaii.

Maybe you should stop the fight then. The fucking guy thinks he's in Hawaii. But he said, I'm in the desert. Yeah. Yeah. Weird. Yeah, that was kind of a weird. And I was wondering why can't they just restart it? Yeah.

It's a bummer. But, you know, do you enjoy watching fights these days still? Yeah, but it's not. I mean, I don't pay attention to what's coming up that much. So, you know, if I kind of see it that day and I'm not doing anything, I'll definitely watch it. But, you know, it's rare that I'm looking forward to certain fights. I am going to go to New York for the Stipe-John Jones fight. Oh, are you?

Yeah. Yeah? That should be exciting. Yeah. What do you think about that fight? Well, I think I said this, like, when Stipe was champ way back when, that, you know, I think John Jones would be a lot, or he would be a lot tougher fight for John Jones

than some of the big hard-hitting guys that can't wrestle very well. Mm-hmm. Because Stipe can wrestle. Yeah. probably not as well as Jon Jones. So it's going to be – I think it's interesting. I think it's a tough one to call. Stipe has more power than Jones. He's not as – I don't know what the right word is, but he's not as goofy. He doesn't do odd things.

Creative. He's more straight. Basics. Basics, but good at them. Yeah, very good at them. So I think Jones being a little bit more goofy and doing things that are a little bit different helps him a lot. Yeah, he's very unpredictable. He always comes in with a pretty good game plan.

him a lot. Yeah, he's very unpredictable. He always comes in with a pretty good game plan and you know sometimes when I think he should be shooting the whole time he doesn't and you know. Yeah. But I think he could do well against Stipe as well just you know he's just got to use that length. Yeah, I'm interested to see what happens also because Stipe's had a lot of time to recover. that length. Yeah, I'm interested to see what happens also because Stipe's had a lot of time to recover. You know, it's been a long time. What was wrong with him? Well, the knockout to Francis.

It was a pretty rough knockout. Right. And, you know, have a good solid two years off, have a lot of time to train. He wanted to put more weight on because he felt like he was a little too light in the Francis fight. Yeah. I'm interested to see him, you know, know fully healthy like how much he's got left in the tank because if you go back to the stipe that knocked out fabrizio verdun the stipe that knocked out uh junior dos santos stipe was a bad fucking man right i think a lot of people are

looking past him in this fight yeah and i don't think john jones is the same as he was before he tested positive, like for the third time on things. You know, maybe he's really not doing anything nowadays. And he's just, I don't feel like he, his body is the same. Well, he's heavyweight now, but before he went to heavyweight, he just looked softer. He didn't look as good of cardio. Wasn't as, I don't know. He just didn't fight the same as he did back when, you know, he was kind of possibly – when he was testing positive, I should say. Interesting.

So – I always felt like John just wasn't challenged and that when John was – when he defended the title a bunch of times, first of all, he was partying a lot. He wasn't necessarily training that hard. He basically said for the Gustafson fight, which is one of his toughest fights, he didn't even train. He barely showed up. He just kind of thought, no way this guy's going to beat me. I'm going to go fuck him up. And Gustafson came in real prepared.

And John had to dig deep. And the most impressive thing about that is he pulled that fight out in the later rounds when he wasn't really training. Right. Yeah. So I don't know. I just feel like he doesn't look how he used to. Well, he definitely doesn't at heavyweight.

When I say look, I don't mean physically. Oh, you mean like how he moves? A little bit physically, but when he was at 205, he still looked a little soft his last couple times there compared to what he used to look like. And you think that might have been from stuff? Yeah. Could be. Definitely. Picograms.

Yeah. I mean, but he had tested positive before so it's not like yeah and that's crazy how they just would had only even during usada they just slapped him on the wrist yeah i never understood that i don't know what the thought of that was i don't know what the explanation for that was i can't really remember but it was i think that they thought that that was a tainted supplement which does happen well what's his face uh sued a company for tainted substances and got a ton of money uh the other cuban i think he's cuban not hector lombard oh yoel romero that's right he did yeah that's right he did i think tim popped accidentally, too, from a tainted supplement. And Tim doesn't look like he does anything.

Right. You know, he looks totally natural. The early days when you were fighting, you kind of must have assumed that everybody was on something. Yeah, but nothing you could do about it. And it doesn't matter. I'm going to beat him anyway. It was my attitude. Yeah. And you did. Most of and you did for the most part.

Most of the time. Tried to. Yeah. When you look back, I mean, you had a fucking amazing career, man. Amazing career as a wrestler and then amazing career as an MMA fighter. I mean, it's got to feel good. Yeah. You lived a great life no for sure and

you know the book that i got coming out it made me made me remember a lot of things you know not that i forgot but it just brings a lot more things fresher in your mind yeah and kind of i don't it's not like i sit around and reflect about what I've done in my life, you know. I just keep moving forward. But that book kind of made me do that. And, you know, it was kind of fun to kind of look at my life in that way for sure. I'm sure it brought back a ton of memories. Yeah.

And it's funny when we were writing it, you know, I'd always come up with, after I'd read it, after, you know, it was kind of written down there, I was like, oh, you know, I forgot about this story or that story

or that, you know, kind of goes with that. So we had to kind of add a bunch of shit. Oh, yeah. It made it a little tougher because, yeah,

I feel like I've forgotten more things than I remember these days, but you never know. But, yeah. It made it a little tougher because I feel like I've forgotten more things than I remember these days, but you never know. But, yeah. Did you do an audio version of it? No. But I was like, oh, it would be cool to actually read it myself in the audio thing with my voice.

And they wanted me to send a sample of that. I did like a five-minute. I played it back to myself. I'm like, oh my God, there's no way. So I sent it to him saying, yeah, we might want to think about professional for this one, for doing this. I know you can edit it, but yeah, it's not good. Then my wife got home from work and I had her listen to it and we just couldn't stop laughing. from work and I had her listen to it and we just couldn't stop laughing. It was bad.

I mean, I'm not the best reader, I guess. Well, it's tough to do. There's a real skill to reading audio books. Right, and trying to put the emotion part into what it's supposed to be. Like if you're telling a story. So yeah, no, there will be an audio version, but it won't be my voice. So I think acting is out of the question for you acting. Uh,

I don't know. I mean, I could do certain things, but I don't know if I, I really don't want to act like that much. Randy's done an amazing. Yeah, no,

I little bit like action movies movies i'd probably be okay at for sure but but some of these other tv drama type shit there's no way right i mean i just i probably couldn't do it with a straight face they do after this we kind of did this book, and there's some producers, like Barry Josephson, like wants to do a biopic on me now. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. And my question to that was, and question to you, how do you put your life in a two-hour show? Yeah, how do you do that without them doctoring it too like what they did with mark schultz and foxcatcher yeah yeah that's hard because they're

going to want to tie it up in a nice ribbon right so i mean now they're talking about you know a limited series instead type of thing oh that would be interesting like a netflix type deal yeah yeah that'd probably be better yeah if they did a your whole life in a two-hour movie. I mean, what do they chop out? Right, right. Right, what do they chop out? Yeah. Yeah.

What would you be in your movie if it was only two hours? How the fuck would you do it? Right. Yeah. It'll just be a bullshit version of your life. Right. Just to make a movie. Right.

Who would play you? I think they have a couple guys in mind. But, yeah, nobody that looks really like me exactly. Do you have anybody that can move right, though? You know what I'm saying? Walk like a caveman. Well, also punch and throw and have good takedowns. Yeah, the one guy that is a possibility,

I think he trains sometimes at Boss's place. Oh, that's good. Yeah, you can't have just an actor that doesn't actually know how to fight. Right. It would look terrible. Yeah. And I think whoever they do pick should probably come up to my gym for a couple months. 100%. Yeah.

Yeah, you get to beat up on him a little bit. Maybe that'll motivate you to get back into gym. Yeah. Yeah. I'll just have him get in shape for me. Yeah. Well, let me know when that comes out because I definitely want to hear it and we'll tell everybody about it.

Yeah. So I wanted you to have the book a little bit ahead of time but yeah i never got it you gotta i think i showed you the cover your quote you got a quote on the back of it i believe it's on the back i can't read without my glasses dan henderson here well i got glasses hold on i think they just took uh one of your commentating. Yeah, here it is. Oh, Dan Henderson is a savage. He came from a pure wrestling background, very little striking training,

and he went and became one of the most dangerous one-punch knockout artists in the history of the sport. Facts. Facts. It's available now. You can get it, the audio book, you get it all for one credit. It's on Kindle. It's on hardcover. Av's available now. You can get it, the audio book, you get it for one credit. It's on Kindle. It's on hardcover.

Available right now. Hendo, the American athlete. You know, I was trying to figure out what to name it. And when I was in Japan, I had all sorts of different nicknames, and they would just call me Dan. But the media over there called me the American athlete. Oh. So that's why I kind of came up with that.

It's a good one. Yeah. I didn't know what to say. It's perfect. Hendo, the American athlete. Perfect. Perfect. Well, listen, Dan, it's a pleasure talking to you.

You've had a fucking amazing career. You're a real legend. I know you don't like the term pioneer I'm alright with it you know the funniest thing about that is guys that look as old as me or they got a big beard

they look like they're 40 or 50 years old they come up to me and say I've been watching you since I was a kid I'm like how? yeah so yeah and said, I've been watching you since I was a kid. I'm like, how? Yeah. So, yeah, it goes with the same feeling when I hear the word pioneer, but it's fine. I mean, I do enjoy the fact that I was a pioneer in the sport.

You definitely were. If there's a better word, let me know, and I'll start using that one. But thanks, brother. I appreciate it very much. No worries. I appreciate you having me, yeah. And the book's available right now, folks. Go out and get it. It's Port-A-Legend.

Alright. Thanks, everybody.