The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #153 with Joe Pyfer

Episode Date: January 18, 2024

Joe sits down with Joe Pyfer, a professional mixed martial artist competing in the Middleweight division of the UFC. www.ufc.com/athlete/joe-pyfer

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. What's up, Joe? What's up, Joe? So we should say right away, off the bat, because people don't know, you really did break Francis Ngannou's punch record. Yeah, so I don't know what the confusion is. You know, I didn't want to— A lot of people, they doubt it just because he's so big.

So I'm going to post it. Well, we just sent it to Jamie. You sent one where you went to 170. Yeah, 170. So you got Eddie Hall. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He got 113. And Francis had gotten 129.

We're trying to break Ngannou's record right now. I had already hit four times. 170. Now, the only thing that, so this is the thing that people don't understand, though, is it's the same machine. I think everybody thought it was like one of those punching bags that are down at the road walk. Right. And, you know, it's aggravating because I pride myself in my power. I want to hurt you.

You know what I mean? Like, that's my intention. I'm trying to, I mean, we all throw with power, right? Yeah. But I feel like I have a little different intention sometimes. So, you know, I've always prided myself in hitting hard. I've always felt like I hit harder than everybody. Now, sure, I'm sure Francis' punch feels different than mine,

but I got speed, I got power, and I walk at like 220 when I'm out of camp. So I'm not a small guy. I mean, I'm 6'2", 220 when I'm hitting that. And even then, probably there, and even then probably there I was probably light because I was injured so I was probably about 212 214 when I hit that and just to put it up I'm gonna post it whenever uh I get back home and I'm gonna post a video and I'm gonna post the picture also of me hitting higher than that at 181 I only have the picture, but Tuco, who's Brendan Allen's coach, was there. I think someone has kicked it up to like 187.

I think that's the newest high kick, which is crazy. Kick? Yeah. Your punch is that close to a kick. That's pretty nuts. Now, get it. It's a standstill object, right? I can smash that thing.

But I've been... Here's Aljo and Wonderboy kicking it. Someone just did 189. I don't know who that is. Lorenz Larkin. That's Lorenz Larkin. Yeah, I think he's got the record now. Lorenz, who used to fight in the UFC, now... I guess

he's with the PFL now, right? I thought he was Bellator. Bellator is the PFL now. Yeah, but Lorenz was Bellator. Oh, yeah. Bellator is the PFL now. Yeah, but Lorenz got 189. Oh, Jesus. He got 235? Lorenz can fucking kick hard. That's a super underrated dude.

I always go to his fight with Neil Magny. Go watch that fight. Jesus. I would love to see Diego Lima. That dude can strike. Oh, yeah. He's another one. Yeah.

Jose. There's probably quite a few guys that can kick like that. But Lorenz, like if you watch him, that technique is just perfect. He's perfect. The way he switches his hips, the way he turns his body into it is just maximizing it. Yeah. I mean, it's really, I mean, some people, it's weird, you know, for me because a lot of people think I have natural power, and I get annoyed with it because I've never had anything natural in my life.

Everything was difficult, learning it, learning jujitsu, learning how to box. Everything was hard for me to learn. So I have a bitter chip on my shoulder when people are trying to discredit it with natural power. I don't know. There is a thing, though's like you could unlock horsepower in a human being but you only have so much when it comes to power there's certain people and i think you've all we've all seen them they just don't hit hard for whatever reason and they look big they can look strong and then there's certain guys that for whatever reason they fucking hit

crazy hard and they're not that big and a lot of it is efficiency and fluidity and the technique and the leverage and that's all learned right but there's like a certain thing to like bone structure and just natural power my bones got to be trash joe because i'm fucking having two surgeries and being beat up. I just think it's the amount of power that you generate. I mean, it's probably a lot of it, too. It's probably a corny thing to say, but I was told that I almost generate too much force for my bone density to handle. I don't know how true that is.

I don't know if they were just kind of stroking my ego. Well, it makes sense. That's why your hands break. When people's hands break, that's why they break, because you're literally generating too much force for your bone structure. Yeah. Dude, when you fought Razak Al-Hassan, you are on – there's a thing that happens with fighters where you see them – you see anxiety, you see first fight, you see nerves, you see jitters jitters you see skills but it's hard to like see the full range of them and then they start getting comfortable and when they start getting comfortable like uh the meerschaum fight you just stomped him but the razak al-hassan fight like

dude you were on another level like that's like when when people talk about a guy in the gym like dude you got to see this motherfucker in the gym. And then seeing that manifest itself inside the octagon, to me, that's one of my favorite things to see. I love watching guys show their potential. And in that fight, Razak Al-Hassan is a beast. Yeah, he's a dog. He's a dangerous dude. And you just put on a fucking show in that fight.

You looked like you were on a fucking show in that fight you looked like you were on a completely different level like you had gone up several rungs from where you were before you know what's crazy about it though that the whole process of what's gotten me to that point has been nothing shy of just man if i'm mentally happy i'm'm going to destroy everybody. But I often struggle mentally, you know? Like, bro, I didn't turn it on. My coaches were all scared in the back just because they know me so well. I'm an emotional dude. I wear my heart on my sleeve.

Like, I say how I feel. You don't really have to read the room. You can read my face, you know what I mean? You understand where I'm at. And I'm not shy to say where I'm at. So that whole week was off. Sean wasn't in the corner. He got sick had some issues with a with a best friend and I've known for 12-13 years he didn't get to come out and and just everything was like off I had uh I had MRSA on

my bicep on my forearm two weeks before oh shit I was on antibiotics before that I got uh I split my toes open where they separated so the bone so, so I could barely, like, I got all swollen. Bro, I've never had an easy camp, and I was having nightmares for the first time of getting knocked the fuck out, like, all week. During my weight cut, during training, I had these crazy nerves. I would get cold sweats. Like, I thought something was wrong, and I never had that before, you know, And I was contemplating, like, man, I'm not going to rush my career. Maybe this isn't the right move. Was it the step up in competition? No, no.

So this is crazy. It's going to come off. Well, it's not crazy, but it comes off as really arrogant. Like, Abdul was not a step up in competition for me. He was a step up as far as, you know, power, you know, and people that I fought, uh, as far as, you know, people that have the ability to knock you out, you know, consequences. Yeah. Yeah. There's consequences for small error. And, uh, but I knew skill for skill dudes, not on my level. I knew Gerald Mershart, Mershart, Mershart, however you say

it, whenever I, bro, I mean that dude to me without being disrespectful is I don't know how he's been in the UFC the guy I first fought you know he's not in the UFC anymore but he had 8 knockouts I'm not I've been doing this for 23 years I started at 4 and a half years old I don't want people to think that I'm cocky or arrogant but I am I am cocky I'm confident

don't you think you kind of have to be yeah you do have to be it's your protection barrier too from people to just openly try to cut you down because everybody like like hitting that punching machine everybody immediately discredits uh says that dana white just wants to get after francis and ghanu that's why i didn't release the video i told you at the austin fight right i was pissed off it didn't get posted right i mean well it's posted now yeah so uh it's posted now and you know it's on a big platform. But, yeah, man, I mean, Abdul was just somebody you had to be careful with,

but I didn't think he boxed better than me, and I think DC even says that as I'm walking into the cage. And his best shot was to knock me out, and if he couldn't knock me out, he wasn't winning that fight. Well, it's also very evident. Like, you're one of those guys that's at the top of the 185 pound division in terms of physical stature. You don't get much bigger at 185.

It's like you and guys like Pajeda, which Pajeda doesn't even make sense. Yeah. Like I was always like, how, how the fuck are you 185? Man, even when I look at,

yeah. I mean, when I look at him, like I've seen, it's so weird. We've seen each other so many times. There's no head nod. There's no respect.

There's no like, even him like man i think a lot of guys are overrated in this fucking sport you think that guy's overrated i mean look i don't think it's i think i think getting hit by him isn't overrated right but he's very stiff and he's got that off switch he's got that off switch well he definitely does at 85 yeah yeah at 85 i don't know about 205 i think that is a big part of the weight cut i think his weight cut is borderline dangerous like i think that a weight cut to 85 to kill you yeah yeah i think he's just so tough that he doesn't but i think there's there's a point of diminishing returns and certainly with your chin. And when Izzy cracked him, obviously Izzy hit him perfect.

It was pinpoint. And then rocked him with the second shot. But the way he went out, I was like. It's gone. Yeah. It's almost like, you know, I'm not going to say any names, but, you know, there's a guy that just recently lost who I like. And it's like, man, like when you've had that off button shut off to the point where you're frozen. It's not like you got TKO'd it's off. Yes

There's a thing that happens to guys when they've taken too many shots. Yeah, you can see it. Yeah, I've never I've never been laid out Last time I was ever dropped. I was 18 years old. I got dropped by a guy that used to be in the UFC For a brief moment. It was Tim Williams. He fought your boy Eric Anders Like he's cool. But uh, but yeah, no, I've never had the lights shut off or anything, so thankful for that. But I pride myself on my defense, too. It's critical. A strong defensive base

is so important when you know how to move well. I was just watching this documentary the UFC put on about Anderson Silva. It's not that I forgot how good Anderson Silva was. Smooth. Super smooth. Super fluent.

Everything, man. When he was in his prime, his fucking defense, too, was so perfect. He was so hard to hit clean. His range, man. You know, when you're taller, these guys underestimate range, and everybody wants to brawl, but people don't understand range. You should be able to slide back, and it just grazes your beard. Range is everything.

And also the mechanical advantage of that long frame, when Anderson would throw that torque on guys. When he was in his prime, you watched the Rich Franklin fights and the Chris Lieben fight, and that fucking dude was special, man. But so let me ask you, because I'm a huge fan of the old school days, more so than the new school. I just think it was more raw and just like I liked when everybody was on roids. You know, everybody was on roids, but that's exactly the stipulation, right? You know, we're so hard on the athletes of today.

They pop for something that's not even a performance-enhancing level. Yeah. But these guys had their reign and were never discredited, but we know they were all on shit. Right. Well, I always talk about TRT Vitor. You know, I think TRT Vitor, the Vitor that fucked up Luke Rockhold and Michael Bisping.

That dude, I put him up against anybody ever. He was fucking terrifying. But he was also like silverback gorilla levels of testosterone. He was like off the charts. When they tested him, one of the reasons why they stopped TRT is because they tested Vitor one time. And he was so far off the charts. They were like, what the fuck are you doing?

And he had said that he was going to be in America for like a week, and so the doctor just gave him a big dose to last for the week. I just think he's next to you. He looks almost the same size. Well, Yoel Romero I'm a huge fan of Yoel Romero, by the way. Yoel Romero is the freak of

all freaks. And I've said this many times before on this podcast, but he is the single most impressive athlete I've ever seen in all my years of watching fights. How old is he? 44 now? He's at least 44. He might be 45, 46. Oh, man. Yeah, Juice Vietor was the bomb. Yoel didn't even need Juice, man. He was a part of the Cuban athletic program. And there's something about that dude, whether it's genetics or who knows what it is but i've told this before so i apologize for anybody's heard this the ufc had brought him

to a doctor after one of his fights i think it was one of his fights in australia and the doctor said to the ufc where did you get this guy and he go and they were like he's one of our fighters because i've never seen anything like him he goes goes, yeah, he's pretty amazing, right? He goes, no, you don't understand. I've never seen a human being like him. The tendons in his eyes are three times larger than normal. They said that his orbital bone, when it fractured, by the time they got him to the doctor, like a couple days later, it already started healing. Like, this guy's a fucking wolverine. He was eating fucking bark or something from growing up.

I mean, he was something super special. I have to say, he was someone that I loved watching. I loved that Paulo Costa and Yoel Romero fight and whatnot. I was always sad. I never got to see him win a belt before he left. Well, he was in the UFC. He started in the UFC, I believe, in his very late 30s. Yeah, like 37.

Yeah, something crazy like that. When he knocked out Lyoto Machida, I think he was like 38, 39. He was already at the range where most guys are looking to hang it up. But look at a guy like that, right? I mean, I don't think he's that technical. I don't think he's very technically wrestling 100%. But he never used it as a complete mixed martial artist. He always seemed to kind of just be like the kickboxing guy,

wanted to keep it on the feet. Which is crazy when you think about his wrestling background, but that's just an energy thing. The amount of energy that it takes to wrestle. It takes guys down a lot, especially when they're slippery, especially when he's not a submission guy. I don't know if he has any submissions in his record. I'm not sure.

He just smashes guys when he gets them on the ground. But his wrestling was so elite, but yet you rarely saw it. But, like, when he knocked out Chris Weidman with that flying knee, like, that fucking dude could explode on you like no other. Man, yeah, it's that. Yeah, I mean, that's a guy that's natural though right you want to say it's a natural athlete like that's natural but i think maybe there was something going on in cuba i think they were doing some look look at karelin we always

talk about karelin but karelin for the soviet union they called him the experiment that's literally what they called him he was so freakish and his parents were like normal size so like there were small folks and he would like be walking with his parents like with his hands on their shoulders he was a giant yeah just an immense human being and here here's a bowl of cereal and here's some fucking testosterone it was no bolus they gave him a fucking caribou liver for breakfast that guy was he was a freak of all freaks but I think there's something to that Soviet training program. And, you know, when you look at other communist countries, like particularly Cuba, there's

no doubt about it. They did whatever they could to make their athletes the best they could. And it just stands to realize. To a certain extent. I mean, I think if you want to, you want to have that peak performance, you want to have that peak human being for whatever you're trying to, you know, put them in. I mean, you can't, naturally it's hard. It's very hard.

It's the hardest road. Well, you can get lucky. You can get lucky and get a Francis Ngannou with the best genetics ever. Or you can just start manipulating someone when they're very young. If you get a young kid and you start giving them growth hormone and IGF-1 and peptides and stuff when they're really little. Yeah, it depends on their diet, right? I mean, like most of everything we use processed and trash.

That too. That too. I'm sure they give them optimal nutrition. I'm sure with that kind of a program, like a communist program where everything is on the line. where everything is on the line. Like if you are a athlete for a totalitarian dictatorship, like whether it's Cuba or Russia or China or whatever it is, they will do whatever they can to make their athletes the best. Like the idea of cheating, we saw it at the Sochi Olympics

with that documentary Icarus. Have you seen that documentary? It's a great documentary by Brian Fogle about – I've talked about this recently. I apologize to people who listened, but the Brian Fogle, what he was going to do is he did a bike race and he did a bike race natural. And he's a very good athlete, endurance athlete. So he did this bike race natural. And then he went to this guy who is the head of the Soviet anti-doping program. And he said, this is what I want to do. I want to do it natural one year. And then the next year, I want you to just juice me up to the tits. And we're going to do a documentary and see how I do juiced versus natural. In the process of filming all this,

it got released that the Sochi Olympics were rigged. And so what Russia was doing was they put a hole in the wall where the urine samples were, and they were swapping urine samples. So they're taking the dirty urine samples from there because it was in Russia. So they're taking the dirty urine samples from their athletes and swapping it out for clean urine samples. But they got caught because they found these micro scratches on these jars that were supposedly impossible to open and that these impenetrable jars that they stored the urine in to make it secure. But then they did an analysis in the jar and they said, somebody's been fucking with these

jars. And so then they analyzed the urine and then the whole house of cards came tumbling down while this guy was doing this documentary. And this guy, what name gregory rechenko is that his name i think rechenkov rechenkov that gentleman who was the head of the soviet doping program got in the witness protection program and then spilled the beans on the soviet union he's hiding in america now i mean they arrested his family they took away away his family's money. They fucked his whole family up. The story is crazy. But he detailed everything that they do as far as their doping program.

And they doped everybody. They doped everybody except figure skaters. Damn. That's the dude. Gregory Rechenkov. Definitely not what I was imaging or picturing in my head. He's hilarious. He's actually funny.

But it's an amazing documentary. I can't recommend Icarus enough. But it just shows how far these countries are willing to go in order to gain national superiority by having their athletes gold medal more than anybody. Power. It's the most addicting thing, right? Yeah. And it's also national pride know, it's national pride. There's a lot involved.

And they're all assuming that everybody else is doing this too. Everybody on some shit. Yeah. Everybody's on some shit. For sure, if they can get away with it, they cheat. There's so much, especially when it comes to things like the Olympics. Because they'll never stop exploring, trying to find the easier route, you know? Exactly.

It's funny because a lot of people have said shit to me, and I'm like, listen, when I came back after I broke my arm, I was big before I broke my arm, but I was big in the wrong way. I was big in, like, a weightlifting way. When did you break your arm? 2020 maybe. And how did you do it? Dustin Stoltzfus.

I got Matt returned in a fucking contender series fight, dislocated, broke backwards. And how'd you do it? Dustin Stoltzfus. I got Matt returned in a fucking contender series fight, dislocated, broke backwards. And that's your right arm? That's my right arm. So I had one surgery. That's this scar. Uh, six months later I joined my team Marquez where Sean's at, uh, and, and all the Philly guys. And then I had to six months again, had to get another surgery and another major surgery and same injury just re-injured So no, so I still had a torn forearm and I still I had a whole bunch of bone growth behind So I broke the radial head in half, which is what you rotate so I can rotate my hand Right like this on my good arm, but I can't go any further than this because it's pinned To this day? To this day yeah. Oh wow. And that's as straight as my arm goes so oh wow

Yeah, so motherfuckers don't understand that this was I was given a 30% chance of being able to fight, you know, if I got the second surgery, uh, 30%, 30%, uh, because of the nerve damage and not like having full functionality. Cause there's a lot of nerves in there. Um, especially where I got surgery and how much damage and inflammation and whatnot was in there. Um, so they had to cut the capsule and whatnot so man when i tell you like i'm gonna be hurting when i'm older i'm gonna be hurting i have pain every day and whatnot but uh but yeah i mean i broke my arm in some bullshit fluke accident um you know i did get matt returned i should have let go of the head i was gonna go for a guillotine and then he lifted me i didn't expect it right posted out boom Been that way a thousand times in practice. Never been hurt. Yeah. Ate me up, man. Ate me up. You know, they closed the ambulance

doors and, you know, you don't get to say shit to Dana White. And all you get is a bunch of nerds that text you and say, hey, man, at least you got a couple of million views. You're famous. And, you know, I lost sponsorships. I was depressed, suicidal, all that shit. And 20 years of my life, I think, at that point. So you were really concerned that that was the end. Yeah, I mean, look, Joe, I started this at four and a half years old. You know, I don't know how much you know. But, you know, I started this at four and a half years old.

And I haven't seen another path. And this was my A. And there was no B. So if A didn't work, that was it. So at four and a half, you knew you wanted to fight? No, eight years old, I knew I wanted to fight. Four and a half, I started jujitsu. Five years old, I did my first competition in Naga.

And yeah, I mean, eight years old, I started developing like a little bit of a confidence. I was so run down and abused that that was where my confidence started coming from. So I never had a dream of the belt. And I can say all these years, I've never had a dream of holding a belt, but I always had a dream of people chanting my name when I was walking out to a sold out crowd. So that was always my dream. And I always, I've always wanted that. And, uh, yeah, I mean, I was, I wasn't a kid that hung out with kids, you know, I was homeschooled and, um, yeah, there's a lot, there's a lot of detail to uncover in there, but, uh, but yeah, I mean, I've known I wanted to do this all my life.

And when I tell you there was no plan B, bro, there was no plan B. When did you have your first MMA fight? How old were you? I was, uh, I think 20 years old, 20 years old, 20, yeah, 20 years old. Uh, actually, no, that's not true. Uh, yeah, it is true. 20 years old. I think it was 2017 was my first fight.

Or 2016, one of those years. And amateur or just... Amateur. So PA. I'm a PA boy at the time. You have to have five amateurs before you can go pro. Oh, really? Is that the rule? Interesting.

That was the rule when I was fighting. So you had to have five. Is that still the rule? I'm not sure. I think it is. You definitely have to have amateur experience to be considered to get your pro license. What if you're like an amateur wrestler or something like that? Does that translate into I don't think so I don't think it's just that I think it's just the way that the PA Commission was with Greg sir back then

It's not a bad idea So I went for and one is an amateur And I felt so held back with the bullshit shin guards not being able to punch somebody in the face Oh, that's how it is with amateurs? You can't punch in the face? No elbowing on the ground? Nope. So I couldn't wait to turn pro, man. I felt so held back, and my kind of training,

like I trained at Fight Factory, which was a gym that had Eddie Alvarez when he was 19 years old. I met Eddie before he even had his first fight. Oh, wow. So when I say I know, a lot of these guys will say, oh, I know these people. I'm the OG in the gym as the young guy because I've been around for so long. So that's why when these fucking clickbait turds come out and they say, oh, you know, he's fighting a guy with a lot of experience.

And Gerald Mearshart, he's got the most submission. I'm like, motherfucker, you're not doing anything that I have never seen. Now, there's a difference between watching on the TV and saying, ah, he doesn't do anything special. And you get in there and you feel somebody's presence. You feel that energy, you feel their intention, you know? So I knew that motherfucker wasn't going to bang with me. I knew Abdul wasn't going to bang with me. That's why as soon as I cracked on me, as soon as I let him feel me like, yeah, motherfucker, like, go ahead. And, uh, you know, he didn't get that. He didn't get to get going. You know, I checked him immediately.

Like, you're a powerhouse. You're an alpha. Well, so am I. Come take it. You know, so I fight with a heavy heart in there. You know what I mean? You're trying to take my living from me. I'm still a poor kid.

That's my mentality. You know what I mean? I'm nothing. And I'm trying to be something. You know what I mean? So you better be ready to kill me, motherfuckers. Like, that's how, same thing with this guy, Jack, man. Like, nice guy. You better be ready to die in there or I'm coming's how the same thing with this guy Jack man like nice guy

You better be ready to die in there. I'm I'm coming for you. Like I don't want no decisions You talk about your abuse like what what exactly was the abuse? I don't want to give the short version, right? You know This is a moment right now that I get to recognize that I'm in front of somebody who has you've heard so many stories so many Crazy things and you know, my story is definitely not up there with the crazy things right but my story I'm unique I'm one of one so my story is you know I started out the abuse started when I was a year old my parents both blame each other you know child services in and out of our lives I'm one of five kids I got four sisters

two older two younger and yeah I started getting, as a one-year-old, um, from what I was told is cause I'd shit myself, right? It's what kids, infants do. And, uh, so that's when it started. And, um, Wow. You got beat for going to the bathroom? Shit in my diaper. Yeah. Uh, the story is I shit my diaper, reached in my diaper, wiped on the walls, and then I got beat for it. Um, neither parent owns up to it, but both parents have blamed each other. Um, just because of the physical, physical abuse on my father's side, a hundred percent has to be him. Um, my mom was not physically aggressive by nature. You know what I mean? She, she definitely what my ass, you know, uh, a good amount, but it was never with the mean intentions, uh, you know,

comparable to my father. It was more verbal on her end, but, uh, but yeah, so it started then. And bro, since the time I've had memory, I remember getting my head stomped, getting beat, getting screamed at, slapped, humiliated, just run down, told you were never going to be anything. And, uh, you know, my sisters received, unfortunately received the, uh, the same treatment. And, uh, yeah. So, I mean, abuse has been something and toxic. And I mean, toxic, like when I want to say like breaking somebody down, I didn't have an ounce of self-esteem. I was my dad's puppet. I didn't know no life being homeschooled. You do school, right? Is he still around? Still living, yeah. Still living. I'm not sure where.

I've parted ways with him, and I don't want to talk to him. Next time I see him is probably, you know, when it's done. And I don't hate him. You know what I mean? I don't hate him, but I despise him as a human being as far as, you know, what he's given back to the world and the kind of person that he's accepted to be. But, yeah, I mean, yeah, he's still around. I just don't know where, and I don't really care where.

So I know my mom still lives at the house that I grew up in. It's so hard to believe that some people are capable of becoming what they become, you know, and to do that to their child. You know what's fucked up about it the most is that it was almost better for me to have never known him than to know him and see how it went and lose him. You know what I mean? Because I loved that man as a child. That was my idol.

Nobody could beat him in the gym. Like, that's what I thought. And I never thought he was a liar, you know, and right around 15 years old. And I definitely think I was behind, you know what I mean, socially, just because of being homeschooled. So my dad wound up getting social security disability and he was a stay-at-home dad, you know what I mean, collecting SSD and fucking doing nothing, but beating his kids and screaming and sitting, basically just being, you know, a child abuser to all of us. Never once has he ever taken accountability for the wrongs that he's done.

And if he's tried to finagle it, it's been to be like, hey, you were a bad kid. It's like, yo, I want to know how I was a bad kid. I didn't steal. Sure, I lied as a kid out of fear because I was afraid to get my head stomped or get beat like a man. You know, I didn't get, I didn't get a traditional ass whooping job. Like neither of my sisters either. They got picked up by their necks, picked up by their hair, strangled, um, you know, and, uh, there, there's many, there's many stories, you know, and as you know, we have a documentary right and um i refrained from putting the details of specific stories because the the documentary is not about woe is me

poor me it's about a i never through all this gave up on the dream to get to the ufc even when i broke my arm and i thought i was doing i did everything right i didn't go out and party i didn't go out and do. I didn't go out and do drugs. I've never, I've never smoked weed. I've never done, and I'm not saying weed's a drug, but I've never smoked weed. I've never smoked a cigarette. I've never take, popped a pill. I've never done anything. I didn't go out to strip clubs. I didn't go out and bring girls home from the bar. It's never been me. So yeah,, I mean. You were just always focused. I was obsessed with this.

I was obsessed with this. And I was obsessed with this because I knew if I couldn't do this, I would have checked out. And that's what made me, you know, that's what made me, like, keep going, motherfucker. Keep going, keep going, keep going. And I just kept beating down the door of people like my coach that, you know, has come with me. I've known that man since I was 10 years old, you know, and he's seen me where? In the gym.

And nothing's changed. He can tell you that from, you know, the only thing that's changed is my maturity, the way I look at life, perspective. But, yeah, man, I mean, it was a rough background. It only got worse as I got older. It's a horrible thing to hear. You know, as a parent, it's terrifying to think that another parent parent could do that to their child but we all know it's true and we all know that it can do one of two things to someone it could just ruin your life or it can give you this unstoppable

fuel and that's what it seems to have done with you i would never wish that on anybody but i often see people like you that are so fucking driven and so angry in there and so effective because of that like so dangerous because that I was often wonder like is it even possible to make a guy like you without that I don't think so I look at like Mike Tyson same thing I don't think so and that but I think that's where I have my appreciation for him you know I'll never discredit him I would not be in the sport if it wasn't for him. But I think that's where I have my appreciation for him. You know, I'll never discredit him. I would not be in the sport if it wasn't for him. He was the one that went to the gym.

He's the one that introduced me, and I will give respect where it's due, right? And that's the respect he deserves. Was he a fighter? So he grew up in Kensington, Philadelphia. I don't know how well you know Philadelphia. Shithole. Bad parents. Mom apparently was, you know, borderline.

I don't know if she was a prostitute or whatever but he was homeless from he was passed home to home he was always passed back and forth to his parents so he lived a much rougher life than me um and uh you know he got jumped all the time um back then it was you know very segregated type you know you don't come into this part of Philly and you don't cross this part of Philly and so he would get jumped all the time. I think he was like a timid, like skinny, nerdy, malnutritioned child growing up. So I know his dad, my grandpa, who I've met a handful of times, was in the Vietnam War. But then when he came back, apparently my dad's story is that he used to sell drugs all the time and was always high, and that's the story he painted to

us so in my eyes like we never knew him really other than a handful of times we met him because they were bad people and he despised them and he he always held like the craziest anger towards his family like they all blackballed him he was the black sheep so yeah i mean he grew up rough too but uh yeah i mean he um he boxed apparently for a long time you know he used to tell everybody he was 115 and 4 he can't fucking find the guy's records anywhere 100 bullshit dude it's a fucking storyteller but um he could box you know what i mean even if he didn't fight he could box he would do well against guys that were pro boxers or fight guys that were in the gym my dad was a tough dude he was good um but uh

you know definitely always lied for his convenience for his story and uh yeah as he was learning jujitsu with a guy named steve hagg who wound up owning fight factory who taught me jujitsu um alongside with my dad but that's how i got into it so i owe him a thanks for the tools that he gave me for the house i have gone to build. That's how I see it. You know what I mean? I don't think he ever intended to give me these tools and me go and fucking build a house with it. And I think he despises me for it.

I mean, he's one of the guys when I broke my arm, sends a message face down, ass up, just how you like it. You'll never, I told you. Bro, he said a lot of shit, man. He has said a lot of shit. And don't get me wrong. I've said a lot of shit back. Like said a lot of shit and don't get me wrong i've said a lot of shit back like we've we've argued you know i mean he brings that special rage where i would i would like lose my life or his life over it you know what i mean like i have to separate myself from him um jesus christ so yeah i mean but yeah just there's no holds barred when it comes to that guy the way he manipulates the way he lies the way he

has basically hurt every single person he has he, the way he lies, the way he has basically hurt every single person. He has, he has no true, he has no long lasting friendships in his life. There's a reason for that, you know? Yeah. That's horrible. Yeah. So not a good human being. It's not, not good. But again, I mean, I hate to say it, but in your line of work, it's like a superpower. It is a superpower. You know what I mean? I i got i got that dark devil with me when i need him and uh i don't mind it you know what i mean i i can be a sweetheart i could be a good person i'm a giving person i give a lot back in the dark to my to my teammates you know uh one of the kids is jose soto uh just by the way i got surgery today hope you're doing well um i think

he's gonna like he's got one eye, like visibility, and he's one of the toughest guys I've ever sparred, and he's an amateur. How is it? I wanted to ask you about this. You know Shara Bullitt has one eye. That's why I'm saying it because I'm telling you right now this kid will whoop that dude. How is Shara Bullitt able to fight? I mean, how do you pass athletic commission standards? So I don't know.

So I think that from what I've heard, I think it depends on the commission and where you're fighting. In PA, I know he has to have, I think, and I may be wrong, so somebody don't roast me for it, but I think you have to have, I think it's called a 2200. It has to be some type of visibility. So you have to be able to see objects or movement? Yeah, and objects, shapes, something. You have to be able to see objects or movement? Yeah, and objects, shapes, something. You have to be able to at least identify something out of that eye. Right.

And, yeah, I mean, I think. That is the craziest way to fight when you already have lost one eye. Bro, he's bigger than me. The kid I'm talking about is bigger than me. He's bigger. He's bigger. He's like 225 right now, and he's in shape, abs cut. I'm telling you, I can't wait for this kid's future um

but uh but i buy a train but my point is like i get back to a lot of i try to get back to a lot of my teammates um because i didn't i didn't let the things that hardened me and made me upset become a piece of shit i don't think i'm a piece of shit i think i'm a good person you know i don't think i'm the best person. I'm not the nicest guy, um, by a long shot. Right. But I think it's, this world is about what you get, you give back and you know how you can, if you're not giving back in some way with success that you have, then I think you're a piece of shit. I don't care if you're a billionaire, you know, if you're not giving back and you're not trying to help the younger generation, that's already so fucked up. Especially the people around you. Especially your tribe.

Yeah, I mean. I couldn't agree more. The one-eyed thing, man, it just still really freaks me out. Like, shout out to Michael Bisping. One of the fucking toughest dudes to ever do it. He did it in the dark. He scammed systems. He scammed the athletic commissions for 10 fights.

For 10 fights, that dude fought with one eye. But then look at the other part of it, right? Like, if he goes out there and he's getting smoked and he's not competitive, like, sure, pull his card and say, hey, you can't do this. But then you're going to tell somebody they can't do what they've trained their whole life for because of something like that, that's not fair, too.

You know what I mean? Right. Well, you look at Shara Bullitt, I mean, obviously, I mean, depth perception is the first thing that goes when you lose one eye. Yeah. It helps, but Shara Bullitt, I mean, obviously, depth perception is the first thing that goes when you lose one eye. Yeah. It helps. But Shara Bullitt is one of the most accurate and precision strikers. I mean, he's got some flaws in his game. His takedown defense is terrible.

Yeah. He's got to learn how to wrestle. That man did not know how to get off his back. Which is crazy. He's from Dagestan. From a guy that's not a wrestler. Right. Yeah, it's a problem.

It's a problem. But also, him on his feet is a fucking problem, too. Oh, man. From a guy that's not a wrestler. Right. Yeah, it's a problem. It's a problem. But also, him on his feet's a fucking problem, too. Oh, man. Guy that kicks that much? I don't want to fight that guy. That dude's annoying. It's not even, it's like, I hate that kind of style. That shit, like, Jack's style irritates the fuck out of me.

Jack de la Madalena? No, Jack Hermanson. Hermanson. Dude's annoying as shit. I hate his style. Fucking bounces around And like He's just an awkward Weird like weird shit

Um Shower of Bullets Not weird But you know He's so He's so fast And kicks And man

I wanna bang Not kick Hermansen in you Is when? When is that? Uh February 10th Nice Yeah so like 25 days

Or some shit like that But not too far I'm counting That's a very good fight for you It's a very good fight for me. I think a lot of people will try to pull this experience bullshit again. And he's definitely my toughest fight on paper, and I think he will be my toughest test.

But one thing's for sure, he better not let me get that one, because I got that one. So he's a dog, he's tough. But I think we know what his style is. If you look at Jack Jack it's like you gotta get the takedown brother because if you stand and bang with me I'm gonna put you down yeah you know what I mean I'm not I'm not playing for decisions and uh you know shit it might come back to bite me right it might say it all confident I might lose might happen but I just

don't think that that's I don't think that's the next chapter for me and uh yeah there it is yeah so it's a fight night i'm an ugly motherfucker on tv man no you look great that's nonsense the fucking apex is the greatest place ever to see i like it everybody's complaining that i keep fighting there but i like it man i like hearing my shots i like hearing that yeah i want to hear it i want to i want to i want to hear him grunt when i hit him i want to hear him wince like i want to see it like i don't have any grunt when I hit him. I want to hear him wince. Like, I want to see it. Like, I don't have any outside noise blocking that. Well, you can hear your coach.

You can hear your corner. You can hear everything. It's, to me, like, when we were doing the COVID fights, when we were doing a lot of the fights from the Apex Center, including, like, world title fights, like Francis Ngannou when he beats Dipe, there was no crowd, which was so crazy. But for me, as a commentator and as an audience member, Like Francis Ngannou, when he beats D-Pay, there was no crowd, which was so crazy.

But for me as a commentator and as an audience member, I was like, God, how lucky am I that I'm here for this? That this is like, you know, the whole world's fucking shut down and I get to be cage side for this with nobody else here. It was a fortunate time, man. It was a fortunate time to, I think, like be in your position, like you're saying, right? You know, be able to be there. You've been around for so long though man like you earned that right i mean and you're you're a part of the ufc in a big big way you're not just a commentator you know i mean so you being a part of that it's also historic too you know but being able to see it with a guy like that in person i that's why i was upset when john jones man i was gonna go to that fight yeah oh man because he's on his way out.

I love Jon Jones. I love Jon Jones, too. That dude is, I hate when everybody so much sidesteps him. I know. When he tore that pec muscle, I was so bummed out. God damn, I wanted to see him versus D-Pay. There's still hope, maybe. Yeah, maybe.

I mean, it seems like that's what they want to do. It seems like that's the fight that they want to do. He keeps vocalizing to Tom Aspinall, you know what I mean? And I feel like he already wrote, which we all kind of assumed, but I think he'll have that fight with Stipe if Stipe's still hanging around. And then, you know, kind of run off into. Maybe, or maybe he'll do Aspinol, depending upon. I mean.

I don't think he has any interest, to be honest. You don't think so? No. Why not, man? What? Elbow surgery also? When did he have this? He said while he was having pec surgery because he had to recover for so long,

he went ahead and got his elbow done too. Was this recently? Yeah, like I thought this was the video, but this was like 11 weeks ago. Wasn't this the day? This was the day out right after, or a couple days out after it happened, I think, that video. Oh, okay. I'll find it. This is not recent, though.

That punching the thing is not recent. This was like two weeks ago, a week ago. I thought it was on his Instagram account, but I'll look it up real quick. The thing is, like, John is, what, 36 now? Is that how old he is? No, I think he's, uh, I thought he was 38. I don't know. I wonder, I wonder, what, 36 now? Is that how old he is? No, I think he's, I thought he was 38. I don't know. I wonder, how old is John?

30s. Oh, I just had it right here. But a week ago he had elbow surgery to shave off bones. 36. Yeah, 36. I thought he was a little bit older than that. Yeah. When you start getting surgeries, when shit starts falling off.

Bro, that's me now. Yeah. Well, that one injury for sure john jones said he had surgery shaved bone spurs in his left elbow so exactly that right so what i just told you about my pain in my elbow i have like six or seven of those in my elbow right now so imagine and that's where all the nerves are yeah yeah. Yeah, so, man, some days I got to, I'm in pain. And they can't go in there and scoop those out? Not before this fight.

After the fight, you think? I'm definitely going to mention it. I'm definitely going to mention it. Have you done any stem cells or anything for that? So I had a torn labrum, and I got some stem cells to try and fix that. And then, honestly, it really agitated it where, you know, and then the fight got announced and everything so this this fight is sooner than i wanted it to be uh in a way but you don't say no to something like this like this this is a good fight for me um when i say good

fight i think that this is a fight that i'm very capable of winning at this point in time with the trajectory I'm on, with all the, you know, people call it hype, but I fucking earned it. This isn't hype. This is called I paid my dues and I was out for a year and eight fucking months and made a comeback, made my comeback fight with a broken left hand, still knocked that dude out, which was Derek Brunson's wrestling coach, came back, knocked out another guy. You know what I mean? So I earned it.

You had a broken left hand going into that fight? I broke my left thumb in half, like right where the joint is, and I still went in there. I remember my coach was like, yo, we got to bite down. We just got to do this, man. Like you do this, you're going back to the UFC. It was the first time I ever worked with my head coach, John Marquez. How far out did you break your thumb from the fight?

I think it was nine days. Oh, God. Damn. Jesus Christ. So, bro, when they grabbed my hand, like the commission, like the medical tent, and they grabbed my hand, I was like, ugh. But I wound up getting it. I took an XL glove or double XL glove because, you know, my hands aren't that big.

But, bro, it was terrible it was terrible did you find a way to tape it in some way yeah I mean we still taped it up like it was a fight right so I still had tons of pain but the pressure stopped me from feeling like it was like floating around so uh and I actually threw it like maybe three four times in that fight just out of like habit and uh but yeah I mean, first fight back, you're in eight months, break your left hand. I have the x-ray for it. And then, you know, let alone the nerves, I had to come back. I'd never thrown my right hand in a real fight. And man, it was awful.

And then three weeks later, I was playing basketball. I love playing basketball. And fuck, it broke my ankle. And the UFC calls and says, hey, you want to fight on the contender series? So when I say I've had injury after injury, and it keeps going. Do you think, like, maybe I shouldn't play basketball? Maybe I shouldn't do stuff outside? Yes, I don't play, no.

Yeah. But, you know, so, yeah. But here's the thing. My theory on life, it could be wrong. but here's the thing. I don't, I, my, my theory on life,

it could be wrong. I don't want to, I don't want to cheat myself along the way to do the things that I still love, you know? Like, and if I have to stop, if I have to live so fucking careful, I'm going to develop that habit to live like a fucking hermit crab.

Right. And I, that's not me, man. I get on a motorcycle. I'm going 205 fucking miles. Joe, don't do that.

But that's, but that's me, bro. That's just, that's, I'm a thrill seeker. You remember Diego Cor hour. Oh, Joe, don't do that. But that's me, bro. I'm a thrill seeker. You remember Diego Corrales? No, I don't know. Follow boxing? Diego Corrales was like, he was involved. So the guy that's a paraplegic?

No, he's dead now. He died in a motorcycle accident. Good job, Joe. He was a big boxer. He's famous for the one fight. Was it Jose Luis Castillo? Is that what it was? He had this fight with Jose Luis Castillo.

It was like one of the greatest displays of guts because he was out, man. I mean, he was out. He was battered. His eyes were swollen. Watch this fight. He's got in the red? Diego Corrales is in the white with the red stripes. Okay.

And Jose Luis Castillo, who's also a very tough guy, is the guy in the red. And he rocks him, and he hurts him. I mean, Corrales looks like he's done. I mean, he looks like he's done. He gets hit with a perfect left hook. He gets dropped. And he gets up. I mean, this is like an Arturo Gatti-type performance.

Like, I mean, it was one of those fights where you're just like, my God. He gets up. I mean, he is fucked. He's fucked. And Castillo catches him again. I mean, it looks like the fight's over. Some referees maybe even stop it right there. You know?

I mean, some referees, you see you go down again like that. They're waving that off, right? A lot of referees. And then I would say good call, good stoppage. The guy's done, right? Watch this. I mean, Corrales' left eye is completely swollen shut, can't see shit, gets dropped twice, looks like he could barely stand.

He's talking to the referee. He's like, don't stop this. Don't stop this. I'm good. So he puts his mouthpiece back in. They're giving him some time here, which is nice. Gets back out in there. I mean, he's still fucked, right?

Yeah. Yeah, you're not recovered. He looks bad. His legs don't look... And Castillo's a very big puncher. Yeah, he looks like he's with it. And he gets clipped again. I mean, this is like an all-time classic performance.

Oh, he's got him. I mean, this is really like Mickey Ward and Arturo Gatti. Castillo will punch himself out. And then all of a sudden, all of a sudden he comes back. I mean, this is like from the verge of defeat. He catches him with the left hook. Yeah, I mean, Cast was like from the verge of defeat. And he catches him with the left hook. Yeah, I mean, Castillo's done. See that look in his face.

But it's crazy if you think about how done Corrales was. Then the referee stops it right there. Yeah, he stops. I mean, crazy, crazy, crazy comeback. Well, Diego was a wild fella. Yeah, that's crazy. And he died on a motorcycle. Yeah, so I've many so many bad stories um

but like you won't you don't get into a car i'm gonna give you my my okay my my thought right you won't get into your car you know the car we talked about the camaro yeah you won't get in that and be like man i could die driving this now you know the dangers of it, you know how fast it is and whatnot, but you'll never, you'll never like, I won't, I could die going in this cage. Right. I could get kicked. I could have one eye. I could be paraplegic. I could have my face broken, you know? And I get it. You know what I mean? So I just, I don't do things thinking that I'm going to fail. It's just, it's not in my brain. Like, I won't, I don't know. I just won't do that. I'm not worried about you.

I'll get scared. I'm worried about the variabilities of the other people on the road. The people I can't control. You're driving, you're drunk, and all that nonsense. Well, it makes you feel better. I don't have one right now.

Good. And I got rid of it, so. I live in a condo, so I got rid of it because I was going to put it in the house, and I was like, oh, and Landlord wouldn't like that, so I was like. You were going to ride the bike right into the house? I was going to put it in the house. And I was like, oh, a landlord wouldn't like that. So I was like. You were going to ride the bike right into the house?

I was going to sit in the living room. But I didn't do it. So I got rid of it. Yeah. But yeah, I'm a thrill seeker, man. I love cars. Will you tell me about your Evo? Yeah, I got that Evo 8, baby.

Wide body. Yeah? Yeah, big turbo. You got a picture of it? Yeah, I do. Dude, it's nice. Send it to Jamie. You get an air dropper to him.

That's a fucking great car. All right, cool, because I got my tag on the back. Those are great cars. So you built that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it had a 4G64, and now I'm going 4G63. So I'll send you two pictures so that way you can see the front and the back. For people who don't know, explain what that car is.

So that car is an all-wheel drive 2006 Mitsubishi Evo. It's a wild little car, man. Super light, crazy handling. Did I not save your number, Jamie? I'm going to send it to you, Joe. Okay, send it to me. Does the airdrop work? Can you see, Jamie, on the airdrop?

Let me see. Yeah, one second. I'm looking through your Instagram too. You had other awesome cars on there, but not the Evo. Jamie. There he is. MacBook Pro? Yep.

Cool. Got it. Got it? Yeah. So that's been my therapy, right? So I've always wanted to be in the car as my neighbor when I was young. His name was Henry Papiano. Good dude.

Honestly, I love him because we don't talk all the time, and I haven't talked to him in years. But yeah, that's my baby. That's a wild little car, dude. It was built. The body and the paint, that's an actual P1 McLaren paint job. It's the real actual paint of it. And obviously, he's got the Voltex on there, the wheels. So I bought the car built as is with a 4G64 in it.

But now it has a 4G63. How many horsepower does that thing have? That setup was the 4G64 block. So that made estimated from what I was told from who I bought it from that it made 808. It's got a full roll cage. So crazy. That car's got to full roll cage. It's so crazy. That car's got to weigh 2,000 pounds. Now, man, let me tell you. What does it weigh?

It's like almost 4,000 pounds. Really? Is that heavy? Yeah, I think it's 38 to 4,100 pounds, something like that. Dude, that is, you like my tag? For body bags. We got JP bags, baby. So cars, man,

I'll smile all day. I could be around cars all day. It's definitely something that's like a therapy for me. It's how I found like, I don't know, man. I love it. I love it.

808 horsepower is nuts. It's the most agile car. So I've driven the Lamborghini Aventador, which was a dream car of mine. Thanks to Royalty Exotics in Vegas. They always hooked me up. Every fight. Yeah, man. They're going down memory lane. I was trying to find your car figured that's a wild car man. Yeah

Yeah, I had it. That was the first Corvette ever bought. It was a c5 z06 stock as hell Oh, those are fun cars though. It was a turd but they're fun though. They're kind of plasticky. Yeah Yeah, but you know what I have to say my dream car was a c606 i wound up getting one um and then i didn't like the interior compared to that one right because i like the leather i like the old look i don't like the plastic look of a lot of modern cars but corvette nailed it with the new interior the new interior is perfect yeah so the new interior is cool but i hate the c8 look because they took away from the traditional long snout, you know, rear wheel drive. Like now it's a mid-engine, short snout.

Like I'm not a fan of it, and I can't fit in it very well. Right. So I don't like it. That's why I will never buy a Lamborghini. I'll never buy a Ferrari. I won't buy a Porsche. I don't fit in it, and I think Porsche is ugly. Really?

How dare you? I know. Yo, I will say driving a GT3 is amazing though but the Evo man I've never driven a car that fun in my life. It's wild what you can do with some of those Japanese cars like with some of the things that people do to GTRs.

They have GTRs that are like 2000 horsepower. Yeah it's insane. Fucking insane. Have you ever been to a drag strip? Yes. You've raced? No I've never driven a been to a drag strip? Yes. Yeah? You've raced? No, I've never driven a car on a drag strip. Now, would you?

No. I'm not interested in doing that. No? I've seen too many of them go like this. Whee! Bang! Oh, like float up in the air? Yeah. Oh, man.

Yeah, that's scary. I think you're making a little bit more than a thousand horsepower, though, doing that. Oh, to go up in the air like that? Yeah. I mean, they probably got no weight in that thing. Like, you know i'm not gutting a car i don't want it i saw a 67 corvette recently do that uh on youtube or instagram or something like that just took to the air just the guy was just and then up in the air see i'll get out of it i'm not i'm not that ballsy like if i start feeling like i'm lifting, I'm out. You saw it?

No, I just thought this was crazy. Let me see. Yeah, that's a scary proposition when you're going that fast in a straight line. Your car just catches the air. What's the fastest you've been in a car? On a racetrack? Yeah. I think I was 178, 179. All right.

Watch the Camaro on that. Pump those numbers up, baby. Yeah. No, I'm good. Look at that thing catching air. Yeah, there it goes. Look at that guy. That guy's launching through the fucking up, baby. Yeah, no, I'm good. Look at that thing catching air. Yeah, there it goes. Look at that guy. That guy's launching through the fucking air, son.

That guy said, fuck it, full send. Hey, what a great—wow, look at that. That is nuts, though. That's crazy, but yeah, he was fully in the air. That dude did some good shit in his life to not die there. Yeah, right? He was fully in the air. Bro, I'd be so mad.

I'd be so upset. I love that car, too. My car is messed up now. Such a beautiful car. I've been watching Car Masters on Netflix. Oh, okay. Yeah, I don't know if you've ever watched it. No, I haven't watched it.

Bro, it's like they take like rust buckets, pieces of shit, like everybody would write off. And, you know, they do shit like Zephyrs. They put a 383 stroker motor in a Tesla. Oh, wow. So it's pretty cool. Yeah, I love watching that stuff. That's like what I watch before I go to cool. Yeah, I love watching that stuff. That's like what I watch before I go to bed.

Yeah, I love cars. Yeah. I mean, it's going to be a sad day when there's no cars because I feel like that's coming. I feel like they're trying to world economic forum and all these fucking psychos are trying to make it so that no one owns a car. Tesla's are great, man. No, I mean, I hate them as far.

Yeah, like I've driven them. I don't like it. I don't like the automatic braking. I don't like all the, like, gadgets. Like, it's like a big-ass iPad. It is. I want, like, a knob to turn. Yeah.

But I'm also American muscle, like, old school. I'm also import, too, but. No, obviously with the Evo. But I do love muscle cars. If I had to choose, like, one car that gives me the most joy, it's old muscle cars. Do you have a particular car? Not really. I like them all. You don't have a favorite out of everything you've got you don't have a specific no i have a 70 chevelle that i fucking love yeah it's so raw just it's a 454 and just it's pumped up it's got like 650 horsepower it just it's the perfect balance big ass fat tires it's a roadster

shop car too so it handles and brakes real well but it's just there's something about those cars that's exactly what my neighbor had he had a chevelle and that's what started it for me i remember being maybe six seven years old and we were poor man my parents combined never made more than 30 000 in a household of seven combined um but uh yeah i mean i remember him ripping down he had an orange one he did the motor himself and he would rip down as soon as he put me, you know what? I think that's what got me hooked on this adrenaline shit. He took me for a ride one time. I'm like, my dad's a deadbeat, bro.

I'll never get to do this. So I was like, I want the neighbor to be my dad. But he took me for a ride. First time I went over a hundred and I was like, I was just remember being like, oh my God, dude, so cool. And it's the sound, the feel of those things, too. When I was, I think I was like 16, a buddy of mine picked me up in his friend's car. And his friend, they were just picking me up, we're going to go somewhere.

And his friend had a 70 Chevelle, and it was perfect. It was just cherry. It was black with white stripes, the tuxedo, which is what I have. And I remember thinking at 16 years old, how can this guy own this? How is it possible that a person could own this perfect car? I couldn't imagine it. I couldn't imagine it. You remember how old you were? I think I was 16. I was in high school for sure. And I remember he ran out of gas and Coasted he ran out of gas at the perfect time and coasted right into the gas station Haha, I mean it was like this guy's the coolest guy that's ever lived. He ran out of gates

Got the perfect car he coasted into this gas station and I just what I like about The car people the car world because if you're a car guy Somewhere along the I mean, especially if you're building your own cars, your blue collar, right? Like, they could teach you shit. You know, I have these nerds today. They're calling triple A or, I don't know, fucking double A. I don't know what it is. But they can't even change a tire. Right.

They don't know. Where's the oil go? It's like, bro, you call yourself a man, but you can't change a tire. You can't change oil. Like, you don't know what to do if the car starts. You don't know anything. Where's the oil go? It's like, bro, you call yourself a man, but you can't change tire. You can't change oil. Like you don't know what to do if the car starts. You don't know anything. You're useless. That is the thing with modern cars. You open them up and it's a computer.

There's just so much going on in there. And, you know, there's an ECU that's powering everything. And that has to be. Not unless you've got a standalone. That's true. No, but that's actually the issue I think I'm going to run into with this new build on the Evo. I think I'm going to have to get, like, a standalone and get it tuned there, you know, get, like, a MoTeC or something like that. Because there's only so much you could do with a stock ECU, you know what I mean?

Right. Like, safety fails and shit like that. I'm sure that you probably have it on some of your cars, but you've got to have your safety fails so you don't blow it up again. You know Gordon Ryan? Yes. Gordon Ryan uh now obsessed with vipers he's trying to get me to buy one of these calvo vipers that's my dream car 2017 dodge viper acr you seen the fucking pens oil commercial yes bro i like borderline cry watching that i'm

like find that commercial man that car is a monster but there's a company it's calvo right it's the best looking yeah it's got it's got to be yeah there there's there's a company, it's Calvo, right? It's the best looking. Yeah, it's gotta be. Yeah. There's one of the, they're around the country. Well, there's one company that's in town that jacks them up to like 2,000 horsepower.

Oh man, dude, this shit makes me want to cry. I can't wait one day. Mark my words. The last Viper. It's absolutely an amazing car. It's just the sound. Look at the way that thing looks. And that hood. The hood with the vents in it.

It's that wing, too, though. Everything. Everything. Remember the TV show where the Viper changed? No. It was like 1995. I thought it was real. It changed from the red convertible to the yellow hardtop.

No. You thought it was real? How old were you? Damn, I don't know how to do it. Look at that fucking thing. That's how I drive, too. I bet. Look at that fucking thing.

I'm just not as good as that guy. And you can't get that bitch in an automatic. It doesn't exist. You don't get that fucking automatic. You don't get a fast bitch in an automatic. It doesn't exist You don't that fucking automatic you don't get a fast car an automatic man that one not that one Look at that motherfucker. That is a goddamn monster. That is a American monster right there Got that supercar sound but v12 good lord Is a v10 I think it's a V10 V10 Yeah Look at that Look at the fire coming out of the sides

That's beautiful man Whoever drove that knows how to fucking drive What a car If you don't get excited by this Move somewhere else My heart starts racing watching else Yeah you need to Go to another country I get more adrenaline from driving like that than fighting

Look at that Fucking thing Good lord Good lord God that thing is amazing Dodge let's hook it up dude You need to have me on your team I love dodge I have a ram I have a TRX God, that thing is amazing. Dodge, let's hook it up, dude. You need to have me on your team.

I love Dodge. I have a Ram. I have a TRX that I got from John Hennessey. Do you like that? It's got 1,000 horsepower. Do you like a truck that fast? Fuck yeah. I love that one.

Yeah. I love that one. Don't say it out loud. Sean Brady would be upset with a slow-ass Ford Raptor. Those are great, too. No, they're good. He's got a nice one. Raptors are great. The new ones. Ford Raptor. Oh, those are great, too. No, they're good. He's got a nice one. Raptors are great. The new one, the Raptor R, the V8 one is insane, and hence he's doing that, too.

He's taking that up to 1,000 horsepower. Is the Raptor R a twin turbo? No, it must be. It's either supercharged or twin turbo. I don't know. Well, I mean, regular Raptors are usually turboed, so I can imagine that's a super. It's a turbo six, and this is, I think it has the same engine as the GT500. I think that's the idea behind it, because it's 700 stock from the factory.

And then Hennessy takes it, and he jacks it up. So I'm 99% sure it's supercharged. You don't remember this TV show? No. No, I never saw this. You thought this was real, Jamie? I was 10. I never heard of a Viper in my life.

It just changes the color. Did you believe in Santa as a kid? He did? I was 10. I've never heard of a viper in my life. It just changes the color. Did you believe in Santa as a kid? He did until he was 12. Damn. Viper. That was a TV show? Yeah, I was like, I'm going to be serious. Growing up, we didn't get the joy.

There was no fucking Santa. There was no like, hey, motherfucker, we ain't got money. You're not getting no gifts. We used to have the church like donate us like uh gifts and whatnot because i grew up christian and whatnot but there was no santa is horrible for you as a child but i firmly believe that being poor as a kid is also a supercharger it's a it's like a superpower there's something about it you're grateful you're grateful and you can't replace that you can't if you have someone that grows up wealthy and then

they just they become successful in life they're never gonna have that same gear as a person who grows up poor there's something about growing up poor it sucks it gives you a it gives you a burning desire for the things that you want and you want to figure it out i mean these kids that are born into money it's actually someone we both know where it's like sometimes and and even people like back home it's like i know people that have kids where it's like they don't know how to like fit in because status and money and shit like that so that could be damaging for a kid you know and yeah it's it's it's good to have them in sports it's good to have them in school you know curriculums like after school activities and i always tell everybody that's like got a boy

if he's got an attitude problem like put that motherfucker in wrestling 100 wrestling is the best thing for a 100 100 100 because there's no easy wrestling no man but you have to you have to show respect to your coaches you have to show up up on time. You pay if you're late. You get broken down, too. You get broken down. It's good. That's the thing. They're getting broken down.

And then the kind of status you get from that, you really feel that. That's earned status. It's a different status. It's a team score, individual grading. You know what I mean? So it's cool, man. My life got real tough once I left to, like once I left home. So my parents divorced at 15.

Like I testified I never wanted to see my mom again. And then I left with my dad. Yeah. So, you know, the other branch of that story is you got the abuse from at least my earliest memory of like four and a half, five years old. And then until 15 years old, then we leave. I go to PA with my dad because my mom basically hated my guts. It was such a divided family. It was the girls and my mom that we lived like the farm life.

I grew up a farm boy against my dad and the fighter, right? I was a puppet. And I just mimicked everything that he said. But I chose my dad because i didn't want to lose wrestling or jujitsu or boxing and everything but then when i got up giving you meaning but then when i got up to pa he had already had a girl he was laid up in that it was like that's all that mattered to him and then she worked he doesn't work you know what i mean so he found somebody to prey on to manipulate to do his thing and then it was like i don't need my kid

no more after i went to court. And like, you know, I didn't understand the consequences of testifying, testifying in court against your mom and being dragged to court out of school and that humiliation. Um, and, uh, you know, I didn't talk to my, my mom and my sisters for years and we, we don't talk currently. We haven't talked since before I got into UFC and And we haven't talked since before I broke my arm. Wow. Because I knocked my sister's boyfriend out for being a meth head.

Oh, Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it is what it is. But, yeah, man, I mean, once I moved up to PA, that was the worst. Like, that short span from 15 to, like, 18 was like, man man, like I was ready to, I was out. So where were you staying during that time? So I stayed in Media PA.

I lived in, I lived in, it's Pennsylvania, but it's like 25 minutes outside of Philadelphia. So it's like the suburb city. Honestly, it's like a bougie. It's not bougie, but it's like a townie, nice town. And, uh, you know, everything was new to me. I came from a school of 330 kids. I got into high school. I was in a school of like 1600 kids.

It costs four grades, but they were all like preppy fuckers. Like kids down in South Jersey where I grew up, they were, they were all fighting each other, like beating each other up, jumping each other after school up here, everybody would talk shit and nobody would fight. So it was a weird thing for me to adjust. I didn't have friends. I didn't have a phone until I started getting a job. Yeah, man, it was weird.

It was really weird. I lived in a two-bedroom apartment. And my dad, his girl at the time, who he's married to now, and her two daughters, we all lived in a two-bedroom apartment. You know what I mean? So it was like, it was just like a bunch, it was a terrible living situation. And then the beatings, man, I swear to God, he used to beat me up just to prove that he could beat me, you know, and show his girl that he was tough. And he, you know, like nobody could fuck with him type of deal. And it was just like, man, so it got real dark, man. And starting like

stomping me, breaking my, like broke my teeth. Um, I had two, two crowns, you know, cause of him, cause of breaking my teeth. And I would, I would curl up, like he would punch me like a grown man, but I would curl up and he would throw uppercuts. Like that's how intent this guy was on getting me. And, um, the last fight we had it was over a fucking game called uncharted 3 and it was we were playing co-op but because i would get more kills than him this is the kind of shit he would rage at he so and mind you throughout all these years right he's on ssd the reason being he had a car accident he was an oil truck driver uh i forget the story of who blew the light,

but when he was going through the light, he got T-boned, or he T-boned somebody, blew out his back, had to get surgery. Apparently it failed. Whenever he wanted to jump up and whoop your ass, though, dude wasn't crippled no more. So it's crazy, you know, and he would go box 15 rounds. But throughout 2004 all the way until I was 15 years old, and then some, this man was on narcotics all the way until I was 15 years old and and then some this man was on narcotics

all the time he was on Vicodin Percocet Oxy and uh he was he definitely was addicted there was never a time that I didn't see it the dude used to have like 60 fucking bottles of it and um he would he would take medicine and then he would drink two yinglings. And I think when I look back, I'm like, man, that shit will make a motherfucker angry. Yeah, I mean, it just got worse as I got older, but I remember the last fight that we had. I remember I used to look at him and be crying and say, how come you don't love me?

I got this empty hole in my chest because I didn't understand emotions, so I'd try to plead with him, like, yo, something's wrong with me. I got something. I got a hole in my chest because I didn't understand emotions so I'd like try to plead with him like yo like something's wrong with me I got something I got a hole I got like I got a hole in my heart like or my chest I don't know what this I don't even know how to explain it and uh you know the things he would say in rebuttal would be like kill fucking kill yourself your feelings don't matter shut the fuck up when I say jump you say how high like it was there was no remorse for anything he did and I think that's why I despise him. You know, the dude hurt me. He hurt me for a lot of years that I had to repair.

And even then, I still carry over some bad attitude problems. And, you know, the dude fucking got to the point where it was like either I'm going to kill myself or I'm going to kill him. And finally, he beat me half to death the one day. I mean, beat me half to death. And I packed a bag of clothes and he came out, pulled a fucking knife on me, said he was going to kill me with it. I shoved him, ran out the fucking door and never went back. Jesus Christ. Never went back.

How old were you then? 16. I was either 16 and the week after 17, I don't remember. Um, but I was, I was within two weeks of turning 17 when I left, um, or I just turned 17 and then left. So, uh, it was in the month of September. God damn. And yeah, so I left, slept in the park for a couple of nights and, uh, then I wound up standing up for a kid a black kid that was getting called Rachel Slurs and that was my first friend I had made and uh yeah I mean he wound up having uh he definitely was on the spectrum like he wasn't the smartest kid

um unfortunately like he he had some things that uh people would pick on him for um like being overweight and and so he would say some weird stuff and whatnot but uh yeah he was the first some things that people would pick on him for, like being overweight. And he would say some weird stuff and whatnot. But yeah, he was the first friend that I developed. And his brother was in juvie for arson, trying to light somebody's house on fire. And he was adopted by a white man. But the house that they lived in, bro, it was like the most disgusting living environment you could fucking think of cat piss infested

hoarder of comics that were all destroyed from cat piss um like every part of the house would have been sticky like your shoes would stick to the fucking floor um and there were shit everywhere the smell was like a pneumonia um maggots in the sink because he refused for about four years to fix the garbage disposal that's how long it sat there broken live wire on the overhead of the oven so i lived in there um and i wind up with i used to run papers to the courthouse and make like 75 bucks a week so every time i would make a little bit of money and his dad would give me some money sometimes to like try and help uh like straighten up the house and i would buy bleach and fucking bleach shit and try to clean and bro it was disgusting like you could wash your clothes

six fucking times and it would still smell like cat piss and pneumonia and it was a very embarrassing very humbling way to live and i lived off like instant food like microwave food for the next two years all my wrestling high school years and the next two years that i was there everything was either donated food from my wrestling coach um will harman who fucking man that that was my saving grace when i went to that school you know i don't want to miss that part like that's important to me that man is the whole reason i'm in the ufc now part like that's important to me that man is the whole reason i'm in the ufc now wow so um god damn dude those were the living conditions man like i mean i mean and he my wrestling coach would come to the house you know that i had truancy officers coming after me because i missed so much

school um it was either dyfus or some child services at a certain point that was like who's taking care of you who's your caregiver and you know i had a nasty response for him and nothing kind of came of it but it was like do i look like i'm fucking unhealthy i remember slamming the door in the woman's face because i thought they were gonna try and take me from the house but uh but yeah man it was shitty times and uh you know life beats you up in ways that you're not prepared for and doesn't change. No matter how much money you make, no matter you're here, you're here. There's always going to be a problem. It's just how you roll with it.

Well, for sure. But having been through the problems that you've been through, I guarantee you, you know how to navigate problems better than most people. I voice it a lot. You know, people always think I'm bitching. But I just, I'm a bro and I am. Sometimes I bitch, you know, because that's my way of coping I'll put it out there. So it's not stuck inside and that's something that's worked for me You know, I say a lot of things that I feel And uh, as long as I get it out, i'm happy, you know what I mean?

Or any at least i'm settled. I don't have that like anger like waiting to explode, you know That's the worst think of where you would be if it wasn't for martial arts in that same situation? I would kill myself. I would kill myself, 100%. I struggled even when I had it. It's one of the only things that gets people out. I just didn't see a life for me, man. I was so stupid.

Yeah, I just I just didn't see a life for me man. I was so stupid and when I say stupid like The whole time that my dad to stay at home dad and I want to give credit to my mother, too you know my mother I never really felt like loved me that much and You know is what it is, but uh My mom worked her ass off and that's why I get my work ethic that woman held two jobs She did what she could to provide she wasn't you know she wasn't you know she wasn't a bum she was she tried and she did the best she could with a dude like that you know what I mean she was she never had another man still hasn't had another man to this day

she was married to him for 20 years they had five blood kids and uh yeah I mean i owe my mom respect for that because she's a hard working woman and uh didn't matter if she she used to work at shop right home depot those were her two jobs and cna and you know she she did what she could you know so i respect her for that and um yeah i mean fuck man that dude was not teaching us homeschool is my point for years. You were afraid to ask him to fucking give you a spelling bee. Because he was sitting at the fucking computer playing games. So if you did it, what the fuck do you want? What the fuck are you bothering me? It was always a huge explosion.

So you're a kid, and you know from getting beat by this person, it's like, I don't want to make him mad. He might fucking slap me. He might hit me. He might do something. So all of us were scared. We didn't fucking learn anything. I tested again in public school. Motherfucker, they held me back.

I was dumb as shit. Like it is what it is. So, yeah, I mean, so my point is making light of something, you know, dark, you know, but then coming back to the dark side, man, if I didn't have MMA, I don't think I would be successful. I don't think I would have been strong enough. I don't think I would have had confidence. And I think life would have broke me, man. I think I would have taken, you know, the easy way out. You're in a great position now, though, man. You know, I know you've gone through hell, but it's, uh, I really do think that it's prepared you in a way that nothing else does, you know, just for the ability to overcome adversity, the ability to deal with things. And again, that the superpower of that horrible childhood,

it sounds like a terrible thing. I would never wish it on anyone, but when I know that someone has been through that and then you see them succeeding like that's a special kind of person that's a person that's got some extra gears yeah all right like but you know it taught me that the people I reached out to I was I was so broken but I never stopped asking questions like Sammy Orpiza no he was someone I always looked up to he's 13-3 he fought in Bellator like you know he wound up retiring because he had kids, and he was working two jobs. And it just didn't, like, it wasn't something he wanted anymore, you know, right? But he was someone I always idolized. Eddie Alvarez was someone I always idolized.

I still talk to him today, you know. That is great. He's awesome. But I would always see him go to the gym, go home. He didn't bullshit. He didn't go out clubbing. He didn't do all the party shit. I'm sure he did at a time right like but you know when he was with jamie he started having kids i didn't see him you know and i didn't know him terribly well i knew him in the gym

really well i didn't know him personally outside of the gym you know that's where i always saw him but um yeah i had a lot of good examples right, man, as soon as I went to high school, I met Will Harmon, who that guy housed me for four years. Because after I left that place, I had, bro. I don't care if this is ratchet, right? You want to talk about trash. I had a friend, and I had a girlfriend, right? Worst girl I ever met in my life. Leave it at that.

Okay. I'd never known somebody. So I moved out of this place that was basically a shithole. I started working at Verizon. It was my first job. And I said, Hey, either I'm going into military because I don't know what the fuck I'm going to be with my life or I'm going to fight. If I get this job, I'm going to fight. I interviewed somehow. I must have been a good talker. Fucking got an interview job. No job experience. Fucking idiot. Somehow I landed it.

Got a job. Started working. Why not moving out? Moved into a condo across the street from my high school wrestling coach, who, if you've seen the documentary, is super impactful on my life. So I move across. Then I moved from there after a year. I moved to another place.

Was only there for a short period of time. The whole relationships wound up falling apart. I was trying to fight while knowing somebody that I thought was a best friend had fucked around with my girl while he was engaged to his girl and that was my fucking living situation and I was so you know eager to have a best friend that the motherfucker was never a best friend right and it was like, man, you got, I got, the heartbreak that I got every fucking turn, and this was two weeks before I had one of the biggest fights that really put me on a trajectory like,

man, I'm going to kill everybody I'm fighting. And so that happened two weeks before. Then that was when I broke it off with my dad. He came over and he got in my face one time and then it was the only time i ever i never put my hands on him i never fought back and i even put my hands on him to this day and uh but it was one of those times where you know how when you i don't know if you've ever had this moment where somebody gets in your face and you're a kid and you have the chain quiver and you're like fucking nervous and it's

like it's almost like you're you're trapped in fear man he said some shit about putting a bullet in my head he said he was gonna come back and put a bullet in my head i was like yo motherfucker before you get to that car i was like i'm gonna bury you like that's it like i'll take out every fucking part of my angry being to destroy you you will not make it to your car like that's it you're done like you die and uh i think it was the first time like that motherfucker knew like he always knew i was better like 16 years old i could submit him he was a brown belt in jiu-jitsu but i could beat him and i think that started to intimidate him and i think that's why the the beatings got worse and worse and worse yeah i think he was scared that i was gonna come like rise up against them. Um, but yeah, I mean that was the

last time and yeah, I mean shit man. So I've just had like betrayal, betrayal, betrayal, betrayal, but I haven't lost faith in people. You know, I met a couple of really good ones that changed my life and you never let them go. The horrible thing about having horrible people in your life is it can ruin your faith in people. but the one thing that it does do it makes you really appreciate good people yeah if you can if you can get past it you could really like you don't appreciate sunshine unless you experience a lot of rain you have to you have to feel cold to appreciate the warmth and so you get spoiled otherwise so that's exactly what i had to explain to somebody the other day.

They're like, why do you live where you live? Why do you train where you train? I'm like, man, you know what it's like to go to the hood where our gym is. Our gym is in the hood. It's on a fourth floor building. It's like a warehouse type shit. It's actually a pretty cool building. Yeah, Sean was explaining it to me.

Yeah. And, like, we're nothing fancy, man. Like, John doesn't – like, John Marquez is my head boxing coach. And then Jonathan Webb is my jiu-jitsu coach. And Jonathan Webb is in Jersey, and John Marquez is in Philadelphia in the hood. Like, man, we're not a fancy facility. We have a fucking square cage. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, we don't have tons of money, and we're in a shitty area, but John does it to help. He does it to promote. All these other gyms, all these other puppy mill fucking gyms that want to brag about this and that, and they got nice state-of-the-art shit. We don't have no state. We got some hand-me-down fucking weights, and we're a grind, man, but we work fucking hard. And I like that. I like being in the trenches so that when I come out I appreciate it when I go home I appreciate where I live you know I don't

live in the best place but it's like I live in a place that I feel safe in and for many a years until my wrestling coach took me in for four years I was not safe I wasn't I brought I hadn't like fucking pissed myself till I was like 12 fucking years old. Like thinking there was something wrong with me. I grew up thinking that I had a mental health issue, like for something. Like I thought it was stupid. Like, I don't know. I don't want to say a certain word.

I thought there was something wrong with me. You were tortured mentally. My dad convinced me that there was something mentally wrong with me. Well, it was him. It was your environment. But how do you know any better? You know, imagine thinking that for so many years. And then when you're homeschooled, there's bro, I didn't have fucking friends. Right. I didn't know. So we were all the weird kids. And then when your response, when you try to express emotion, one of the things, because this shit haunts me to this day, because I wish I wish I could have heard him. day because I wish I wish I could have heard him. My sister said she wanted to kill herself because she felt like her dad didn't love her. And we go and we pick her up, right? This is the kind of guy

is we go to pick her up. The whole family goes to pick her up. My mom, my four sisters, me, we go pick her up, pick her up from school. My dad seems really concerned. Like, yeah, yeah. I don't know why she would say that, you know, but you could tell. It's like you could tell he was burning inside. So we lived like 10 minutes from school. We get home. We all get out of the car, and we're all, like, quiet. We're all quiet. We're like, man, something's about to go down.

Like, as soon as she opens the door, like, gave the key, grabs her by her hair, grabs her by her pants, fucking throws her, chucks her in the fucking room, starts strangling her in, like, in like you like put like threw on the fucking couch and then start strangling her in between the cushions and then we all have to fight him to get him off that's your response to your daughter who's suicidal you know what i mean so like when i say and we were all mean to each other that made it even worse we were all mean we were all caring in that moment because we knew like this isn't right seeing him hit my mom cops being in our house 12 times a year and shit like that. Like, like I grew up dysfunctional. That shit fucked me up and it fucked me up when I was toxic. I was, you know, negative and I'm still like toxic and negative. Right. But like you learn who people are. When you see that kind of shit, I can have conversations like a conversation I want to have,

like you're, you can talk about anything. You like a conversation I want to have like you're you can talk about anything you're open-minded like but you're also you got your beliefs right like you're a real real person I don't like everybody because you know when somebody's got this fake face and my dad was one of those people he had them fucking fake face man but the second he could get you in that door to hurt you he would take it and it's like when you see when you when you grow up with that door to hurt you, he would take it. And it's like, when you see, when you, when you grow up with that, it just makes you angry. And then that's why it's like, you're going to take half my purse. This motherfucker is my toughest test. You're

going to take it from me. Come on, try it. And you might be, if you beat me, you're one of the best in the world in my mind. And I've never, I can, I can honestly say this through all that shit. I have such a strong confidence in myself where it's like, man, ain't no man beating me until it's been done. It's not happening. I have a loss on my career as an amateur because I was 174 pounds fighting at 185 training twice a week with a full time job with that girl that just fucked me up. My first pro loss, struggling with suicide, depression, things like that. Still hadn't settled that beef with myself. First time I ever went in a fight.

Was absolutely dominating the fight. I still, this guy's name is Jonathan Potty. Love the guy. Super nice guy. Still talk to him. Would never want to fight him again. But it was a good loss for me. And then you got my arm break.

I got one real loss, man. And I got one, I lost to myself. I lost to my fucking mental health. Like I lost to, I lost before I got in. Right. So it's just. You're in a very good spot now, though. And I want to talk to you about like where you fit in in the UFC's middleweight division.

Because you're like what I would call on the cusp. Like you're a guy, the Jacker-Manson fight is going to put you into a great place if you win that. But you're in that conversation. If I win that, two more fights and a title. That's what I'm saying. Like within the next year or two, you could be fighting for a title. Yeah. But I'm going to be smart, man.

You know, mental health is something I fight every day. And the reason I keep bringing it up is because I'm going to fight and I'm going to win, and then I'm going to take some time. And then I'm going to go on vacation, and I'm going to settle some things I got in myself, you know, within myself. You feel like that's something that you have to do, like something you're putting off? Yeah. Yeah. Now, when you say, do you work with anybody? Do you have a therapist?

So I just have a lot of people that I talk to close. I've tried therapy like three, four times times and I've never really gotten a benefit from it. Um, I don't know if it's just cause I haven't met the right one. Um, or they haven't been able to get through to me. Like I'm not an open person where I like, I'm an open person. Like I can talk about these things. Right. And I may get upset about some of them and I still evoke strong emotion from it. But just because you're listening doesn't mean that I trust you with what I'm telling you. You know what I mean? For you to give feedback and then me to receive it in a way where I think, okay, let me apply this. So I just sometimes I feel like therapy is just another fucked up human being telling another person, hey, you shouldn't feel like this.

But or you should try this and try that. But that's why I love cars so much. That's why I love cars. I love nature. And I also want to take time because I haven't taken a vacation since I've been in UFC and a couple years before that. I haven't taken a vacation since before I broke my arm. And I think part of, you know, one of my biggest things isn't holding the UFC title,

but one of my biggest things is buying a beach house and that super car I've always wanted, that Dodge Viper. And having a loved one and going and traveling the world before I'm dead, I think that's what my idea of peace and happiness is, and I'm desperately searching for it. I mean, like I said, you get a lot of power off the horrible experiences of your childhood, but the key is to not be trapped by it forever. And that's where some people have to figure out a way to come to grips with your life and just accept it and to move forward in a positive way. You're obviously a very good guy. You're obviously an incredibly hard worker, and you're obviously very successful, and you're obviously a very good guy. You're obviously an incredibly hard worker and you're obviously very successful and you're obviously haunted by your childhood, but someone could probably help you develop the tools to put that aside. You're never, it's never going to go away. It's always going to be inside of you. That monster, he's always going to be in a cage.

But I'm okay with that. I don't want to forget it. You're not going to forget it, Joe. You're never going to forget it, Joe. Joe, you're never going to forget it. But the key is to not let it consume you all the time. And that is where someone can probably help you. You're never going to forget it. There's a monster that's going to be inside of you whenever you need them.

That's not going to go away. It's just not going to go away. But to not live with it all the time would be very, very beneficial for you because then you would get all of the positive attributes that come from having a horrible childhood, which is this unstoppable drive, this fury that you can unleash inside the octagon. It's very different than other people's, but you can get to the point where it doesn't consume your everyday life. And it's not something you have to think about all the time.

And you can think about positive things, and you can think about growth and expansion and progress. And I think you're very capable of doing that. It's just so many people, they rightly so, dwell on the horrible experiences of their childhood forever. And there comes a time where that doesn't serve you anymore, and it rots at you, where even with success, you're still angry. Even with success, you're still bitter. Even with success, you still want to talk about it, and you want to live it again, and you want to go over it in your head.

And that can rot you out from the inside, because at a certain point in time like your mind can't handle it anymore yeah i would say i grew emotionally thin when i lost my first pro fight that's where i was right you know i can talk about it now and i can evoke those strong emotions what i remember with it but i forgive them like i i view my dad now as you know somebody like i said i i don't respect as a man because i don't think he's the definition of what a man's supposed to be for someone that teaches their kids useful tools and whatnot. But I've forgiven him because I think it's beyond his help because he never got help because he never settled with his. Now, that is a man that has aged terribly because of his past and his demons that he's

never let go and i don't want to be like that well you're not going to be like that i'm already not like that i'm the only i'm the joseph i'm joseph oliver pipe for the fifth and i'm going to be the last um because i think i need to make a lasting impression for my name and i'm the first person that's ever you know like none of them have been to college educated including me me. At a certain point, you know, I've become successful enough. I want to go to college and get some type of degree. And do you read? I'm not a big reader, but I watch documentaries. I watch podcasts, the Joe Rogan podcast.

Don't rely on this for education. No, no, no. Right. But it brings a lot. Your podcast brings a lot of diversity, a lot of, like, you have to be open-minded to listen to every episode, right? There's a lot of different perspectives from a lot of different successful people, right? But no, I'm really big on listening to people that have been through, like, traumatic things. I like to listen to a lot of, like, Army vets that have been through like traumatic things. I like listen to it. A lot of like, uh, like army vets that have spoken like Nicholas Irving, um, the first black American sniper who

had like 33 confirmed kills or something like that. I watched his documentary and to hear the trauma that he's gone through and the things that he's done and how he is still making a good impact for other people. You know, that, that was, that's a powerful dude. And, uh, my life is very common across the world. Uh, and unfortunately, unfortunately, um, it's very common. So I think I find light and you always hear me say, I don't know if you've recognized, but after every fight, I don't want to be a role model, but I want to be an inspiration for the kids that it's like, Hey, stay in a sport. Don't let that sport go. And whatever that unspoken is that stops you from quitting, follow it.

And if it's in wrestling or if it's in soccer or if it's in basketball, keep doing it. I used to get laughed at my whole life. I would sit at the cafeteria. I stopped sitting with kids. I would play chess every day with my wrestling coach during lunch because kids would laugh at me every time I said I'm gonna be in the ufc everybody would snuff you know like like like giggle at it so i just removed myself put myself in a better situation i didn't like this friendship i got out of it i moved to a place where i could pursue fighting you know like i found people that were chasing things themselves right you know so i think it's just about putting yourself around the right people and constantly wanting to evolve.

If you stop evolving, you pass away. That's a giant part of it, putting yourself around the right people. Either it's through watching documentaries about the right people, if you don't have access to the right people, or if you're very fortunate like yourself to get to a gym with these great people and to live like. My gym is my family. Yeah, for sure. You know what I mean? My gym is my family.

I know I know Sean and shit, and I always talk about him. I always talk about him because when I joined that team, man, I was not in UFC. And I don't think a lot of people had a lot of faith in me, but Coach John took me in, never charged me a penny. And I couldn't have afforded it if he did, and I made the switch before I even got the second surgery, you know, and he cornered me, and I feel it, like, I feel, I can look at them and know that they, like, they get emotional, too, like, we're fighting for something big here, right, you know, fighting to change my life still still. So there's a big fight coming up this weekend, obviously. Sean Strickland and Drekus Duplassie. What do you think about that?

That's your division. Yeah. Both very beatable. That's what I think. I like Sean Strickland. I like Sean Strickland. I like DDP too. I'm going to go the American way. I want to vote. I hope the American boy keeps it here in America. Dirk is a very unusual guy. He's a very unorthodox power puncher like Ford, but there's a lot of openings to clip him, and he doesn't have a granite chin in my opinion. He could take a shot,

but I don't think he's fought anybody that can test his chin yet. Besides, that's not true. Let me shut up before I get hated on, right? Robert Whitaker was a dog. But he had Robert's number, man. He had a good plan. He's deceptively technical. Yeah, exactly.

So he knows where – I think he's a guy – let's put it this way. I think he's a guy that knows what he's good at and knows how to get there quick. And that's why he comes out hot, because he knows how he's going to wear on you. Also, like yourself, he's very big for the weight class. I haven't seen him in person. He's a big boy. He looks like a fucking heavyweight. But you know what?

I watched his interview on the way here, on the flight, and he's not stupid. He's a smart guy. And I have respect for all of them. I don't think you get that far if you're stupid Yeah, no, you don't be surprised man. I mean, there's you know, there's some dumbass people in this not the top Yeah, not at the top not the cream of the crop. You don't get to that level Yeah, you you have to have some innate form of intelligence. Yeah, a hundred percent because you also have to be coachable Yes, I have a lot of respect for Sean because Sean, when I fought Gerald, was in the back.

And even before I was in the UFC, he said, hey, you want to come train? And I said no because I knew it was like, man, I don't like training with people that I'm going to have to fight. Right. You know what I mean? But I got respect for him. I like his story. He's got a crazy style. I don't like listening to him talk.

He sounds like a drunk person to me. Well, he also, like you, came from a very abusive childhood. Yeah. No, no, no. like listening to him talk uh he sounds like a drunk person to me so i'm not like a but well he off also like you came from a very abusive child yeah no no no and man yeah look at what he's done it's amazing look at what he's done and he's not he's not a style that you're like oh my god but you're a style like man this is unorthodox and it works for him he knows what he's good at he's confident in what he's good at and he's put himself in the fire against some of the best to figure out that it works. So, yeah, I mean, I do think that DDP has the bigger advantage in this fight. In what way?

In the way that Sean has been chin-checked a few times. And I think, like, you know, competitively, I think that Sean is the easier guy to beat. He's a hard guy to hit. He's a hard guy to hit, but when you hit him, he reacts big, I think, like, you know, competitively, I think that Sean is the easier guy to beat. He's a hard guy to hit. He's a hard guy to hit, but when you hit him, he reacts big, I think. And I think a style like DDP is perfect for it. I think he's going to make him, like, it's unorthodox, like Sean. You know, he can be standing right there, but he's really good at his range. He knows how to, you'll just miss.

You hit his hands, you hit his forearms. He lifts his leg. He keeps you, like, standing straight up. It's really hands, you hit his forearms. He lifts his leg. He keeps you, like, standing straight up. It's really strange. And he's actually a hard guy to keep down. I think people underestimate Sean Strickland's jiu-jitsu abilities, right? No, his jiu-jitsu is very high level. But, yeah, I mean, they're both good, man.

That's what I think. I think they're both good. But, yeah, I mean, I hope the belt stays here in America. Were you shocked when DDP beat down Robert Whitaker like that? I was surprised that he did it the way he did it. I didn't count him out, but I didn't have him winning. You know what I mean? I definitely thought that it was going to be close.

It was going to be tough. I really did. A lot of people counted him out. I was like, that's crazy, bro. This guy's not, I think he was 20 and 2 or something like that. Man, this dude can bring it. He's going to make it a dogfight. I don't care how tactical you are.

When somebody makes it ugly, your energy level's down and you're not that tactical no more. So, yeah, I mean, I thought it was pretty impressive. I was very impressed. I was surprised you could take him down. Yeah. He's a big guy, man. I got to see him, man. I keep hearing that. I want to see him. I mean, I don take him down. Yeah. He's a big guy, man. Yeah. I got to see him, man. I keep hearing that.

I want to see him. I mean, I don't know what he walks. You said that when you start your cut, what do you walk around at? 218. 218? Yeah. Oh, wait. Start my cut fight week?

Yeah. I'll be like 208. Okay. But when you're in training, before you start any cut, you're about 218? I'm 218, 220. And the heaviest you get is? Fat. That's it?

Yeah, fat. it's like my cap i won't go any bigger i'll have to go off a weight class and and i might in a couple years you know but i think i would take i would take the proper time to not be disrespectful and fight a fucking guy as big as johnny walker or somebody like that right you know or uncle live that the thick bone thick guys i think a lot of people underestimate like there's bone density that comes with a certain size too. You know what I mean? I would have to build myself a little more muscular than these guys. I have the frame to do

it. And take like a good six months to a year to build myself to then make that move up. Do you find it increasingly difficult to get to 185? I do. I do. Yeah. It sucks. It's rough. It's definitely not rough. So you're 208 the week of the cut? 208. But I'm already like, I'll show you what I look like. And are you using, who are you

using to do this? Using a nutritionist and a weight cutting expert? No. No? I'm just not. Yeah. I use the guy castro with ufcpi he's been great and charles a little bit okay but ufcpi those guys but i don't like i like i keep i keep them updated with my weight cut as i'm coming down but i don't do like i don't know how people fucking water load man i don't like it i don't like the water loads i do my cut like i know my body pretty well and uh i get down but it's just it's just i don't like the water loads. I do my cut, like I know my body pretty well, and I get down. But it's just, I don't know. Is your cut primarily sauna or do you bike ride with a wetsuit on?

I train twice a day still. Yeah. Yeah. Sweet sweat, do a couple rounds, pad work, get the sweat flowing, do it a couple ground and pound, you know, wrestling drills, and then do a couple ground and pound rounds, and then I'll hop in the sauna. Just take in very little water. Take in very little water. pound uh you know wrestling drills and then do a couple ground and pound rounds and then i'll just

take in very little water take in very little water um you know the proper nutrition to kill the sugar cravings and the hunger and shit like that but yeah i do i've been getting better and better and better and better at it um but it's still hard still very hard and do you have a protocol as far as rehydration yeah so i've been drinking whatever the ufc gives me um like their rehydration and then i'm really big on like like sodium and potassium intakes and whatnot obviously but uh yeah i mean i have a couple drinks that i that i drink but it's just like a bpn electrolyte try to get that back in there try to get as much salt as possible so i can hold what i'm putting in my body and what do you try to weigh day of the fight?

Whatever my body's happy at. I don't want to overeat, and I don't want to overdrink where I feel so bloated or I feel so heavy, but I probably walk in around 210, 208. So I blow up. That's a lot. So when I fought Gerald, I was heavy. I think I was like 209 when I walked into the cage. But by the time I faced off with him by 4 PM, I was like 203, 204. So I was like,

I put it on quick and I don't lose it. Like I'll wake up the next morning and it goes right back to where it needs to. So I have a good system, and I think it's only going to get better. But, man, you know, I'm not going to put it out there, but I have never had a smooth camp. I've never had a smooth camp, and this is going to be no different, but this is where I've been built. I've been built in the fire, and, you know, Jack's a good dude. It's going to be a tough fight.

I don't know of anybody who has a good camp. They say they have good camps. We talk to them, there's like a rib and a neck and a knee and everybody across the states lately though has been sick as fuck yeah it's a lot of colds going on i've been gone i've been going as far as to say somebody's fucking poisoning us because there's no way that everybody i fucking know got sick at the same time and everybody's sick for two, three weeks with it. Well, there's a COVID strain that's going around right now. And then there's the flu.

I mean, it's the winter. And you know what a lot of that is, is vitamin D deficiency, especially when you're dealing with cold climates. I take vitamin D. Vitamin D and vitamin K as well. I take vitamin K, vitamin D, and I take it with magnesium because what I was told is if you don't take magnesium, it doesn't mean shit. It doesn't mean as much. Yeah. Magnesium is important.

Do you take like a suite of nutrients? Do you know what to do as far as like how much to take of this and that? So I have. So I just have like my morning routine of everything I've taken and I got it from the UFC PI. They gave me a sheet and then I've been doing it for long enough now that it's like, I know what I need. So I was just, it's such a great resource. It's a great resource. When they first built that, I was like, what are they doing?

Bro, I was fucking blown away when I was out there for Brendan Allen, cornering him. I didn't never been in the cafeteria. I always heard people talk about it. I'm like, where the fuck is it? Like I never knew how to get to it. Oh, that's funny. Oh man. I was so upset. I was so mad at myself. I've been in this shit for a year and a half now, a year, and I didn't know there was a fucking cafeteria everybody was going to but me. Super healthy food, amazing state-of-the-art facility,

the best stuff for recovery, the best stuff for training, amazing coaches. You know what I will say, though? So I think it's a great place. I'm not comfortable training in a place like that. Really? You like it dirty. Bro, I like a fucking ratchet. I'm a ratchet motherfucker. Bro, I'm wearing fucking training in a place like that. Really? You like it dirty. Bro, I like a fucking ratchet. I'm a ratchet motherfucker.

Bro, I'm wearing fucking sweatpants under this. Rocky when he fought Drago. Yeah. Fucking Siberia running with the log on his back. It's not me, Joe. I got an Oura ring to track my sleep, right? And someone that made that important to me was Sean because my fucking sleep sucked.

But now I'm so conscious about it. Sean's taught me so much, man. Sean has taught me so much, man. Sean has taught me so much. That's a guy that needs to slow down. In my opinion, I've never seen somebody train that much. Like I picture him as like a fucking disgruntled, old, mean motherfucker. Like, just like, I didn't fucking have it. Like he just didn't do anything fun. Like, but, uh, but that's not true. He does fun shit, but like he loves out. Me, it's my job, and I love working out, but that's not all I want to do. I want to go fuck off sometimes, race and ride bikes and take a vacation.

Sean wants to train. He wants to do jiu-jitsu competitions when it's all done. Yeah, man. He needs to get on the sauce when he's done and go fuck people up. Well, I mean, you think about him beating Craig Jones in a grappling match. And, again, they didn't have heel hooks, but that's just because the UFC won't allow that. But beating Craig Jones is a gigantic accomplishment. Yeah.

I mean, that guy is elite in terms of people who just train grappling. And for him, a guy who's training MMA, fighting in the top echelon of the UFC, he's fighting against some of the best of the best. For him to go and beat Craig Jones in a straight-up grappling match, that's incredible. Exactly. It is incredible. And that's the Phil Rowe, you owe me money.

He bailed out of a bet he was supposed to, you know, and this was years before I was in the UFC. And you know, I met Phil Rowe playing with Randy Brown on Call of Duty. Oh, really? Yeah, playing Call of Duty. That's crazy. Randy Brown's how I met Phil Rowe playing with Randy Brown on Call of Duty. Oh, really? Yeah, playing Call of Duty. That's crazy.

Randy Brown's how I met him. I trained with Randy Brown, too. But yeah, no, I was so confident in Sean being in that match because, like I said, I've gone with Corey Anderson. I've gone with some heavy, big dudes, and I do well. I hold my own. I do more than that. But man, I've never hit. Bro, I'm lucky if I take this motherfucker down, like, once a month.

I can't do it. You know what I mean? I'm going out. I'm a heavy dude. He's an elite grappler. And you really saw that in the Kelvin Gastelum fight. Kelvin can wrestle, man. And he was all over Kelvin.

I mean, like, Kelvin's like a hit or miss, man. It's so weird. It's unfortunate. I think Sean, it's just. Kelvin should have been a wel miss man It's so weird He uh It's unfortunate I think Sean It's just Kelvin should have been a welterweight from the jump He should have been But like did you see the way he was falling

Yeah Yeah It looked like he just couldn't like It looked like the second Sean Like picked him up Or like threw something He was always so off balance Well he might be dealing with injuries

He's also had a very long career Yeah man And some fucking crazy wars He just had that war with Chris Curtis. He's had wars with Adesanya. He looked good at Chris Curtis. Against Chris Curtis, he looked great. Yeah, and Chris Curtis is a beast.

Yeah, it was a good fight. And it's just, you know, Calvin, I told Calvin a long time ago, dude, I go, if you're 170, I think you're a potential world champion. But at 85, the difference between a guy like you and a guy like him, just the physical frame difference, like Adesanya or Pahera or any of these really big 85ers, they're just so much bigger. Drekus. The difference, like, Calvin's my size.

You're not just fighting talent. Let's say the skill is matched. Now you're fighting size. You're fighting everything. I mean, Calvin is fast as fuck with his hands He's got beautiful float fluid combinations with his fists like that one two that he knocked bisping out with yeah The motherfucker is amazing and the fight with Adesanya was a war people forget he had Adesanya in all kinds of trouble Yeah, but he's always strike his bodybuilders always spin so like build has always been so weird to me.

I mean, he's missed weights so many times. And he's, I don't know. He just never looks like he fully committed. I don't know if that's just his genetics, the way he's built. But it doesn't look like he's terribly sucked out at 70. He looks like he went through a cut. It didn't look like he lost body fat is what you're saying. Yeah. Differencing him at 85 and him at 70 you're saying. Yeah. It didn't look the bit.

The difference between him at 85 and him at 70 wasn't stark. I feel like he really fucks off maybe in his diet. I don't know. There has to be something going on there. Yeah, I mean... Yeah. I mean, I don't think he's working with a strict nutritionist that's really got it all dialed in. Hey, listen.

I told people, too, in my post-fight, too, that it was Sean's first time being overseas and whatnot. And look, he knows where he's best right i'm not saying he's i don't think he can i don't think he's like the best striker in the world by any means but i think he's the best grappler for mma by a long shot it's not just me bro this motherfucker could put any of us on our back and you're not getting up you could see when he's grappling it's very high level very knows what you're not getting up. You could see when he's grappling, it's very high level. He knows what you're doing. He knows where he wants you to go. And you think, oh, I might get up. And then you're stuck. And it's like, it's very frustrating. I hate going with him. Well, you could see it in the fights, man. You could, you know, someone who really appreciates grappling. I really love

watching that guy fight because it's very high level. And his striking is very good too. You know, the Bilal fight sucked for him, but will ultimately be good for him in the long run. Cause it's a, it's just a painful, horrible lesson, man. I'll tell you,

this is what I don't care if he gets mad. This is what I'll say. I think there was a certain coach that's no longer on our team that I never fucked with that shouldn't have been in his corner and doesn't know how to fucking like, bro. They didn't, the main, the head coach, the guy that was supposed to, I'm not going to say his name. Okay.

He was supposed to run, like, give him a structure, tell him what to do. You know, like, he just kind of, like, didn't train him and didn't develop a game plan with him. Like, Coach John did everything. Coach John's just the striking end of it, right? And obviously that's where he lost the fight. But the dude shot one time. Right.

He shot one time and that was it, you know? So I think Sean just, he had a mental bug. And I think Sean's more of like an introvert where he keeps things to himself. And he's very like his private life's his private life. And, you know, and I can respect that versus me. I'm outspoken and I'll say what I'm feeling. And I said it the week, bro, I was fucking sad as shit when I fought Abdul I didn't turn it on until I started walking actually that's not true I didn't turn it on until I saw him fucking like

doing all this like dancing shit like I was like you think so huh and then that's when it turned on right but some people just can't turn it on man and I think that was one of those times where he just wasn't like he, he was doing good. It was a back and forth in the first round, and then it just got off. You also have to give credit to Bilal. Bilal's a big fucking tough dude, you know. Yeah. I'm not a Bilal fan.

I don't have to give him credit. He's a tough guy, man. He's a tough guy. He beat my teammate. I don't fuck with him. Well, I get it. I understand that. No, but he is tough.

I hope he gets the, you know, my feelings for him aside. I hope he gets, you know. How could he not? I don't understand. How is it even a discussion that he doesn't get the Leon Edwards fight? I mean, listen, if I was Belaw, I'd be upset, right? Like, I got poked in the fucking eye. I lost my, I lost the fight.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, let's run it back. Yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't know. Like, Leon's like, like saying he's not going to get it and shit like that. It's just weird. What is Leon saying?

About him not getting it. He doesn't think he deserves it or some shit like that. Really? I think that was when he was about to fight Colby. They were saying, oh, Bilal's going to be next, and he was saying he doesn't deserve it. The only way I could see him saying that is if he thinks of pay-per-view points and that Bilal's not a big sale, that he's not going to sell a lot of tickets.

But who else? Who else is next, man? There's no one else there. Shavkat? Well, Shavkat, but Shavkat needs surgery. He went into that fight with Wonderboy fucked up, and that's why he didn't throw any kicks. Yeah.

And then you have who else? I think, look, everybody's angling to try to get Conor, right? For Welterweight? Yeah. Listen. Bro, he's angling to try to get Conor, right? For welterweight? Yeah. Listen. Bro, he's small. I understand. But wouldn't you take it just for the money?

I mean, that's what Leon would feel like. If I was Leon, yeah. Sure, Leon would feel like he has a big advantage. You know, he's a legitimate welterweight. He would dust Conor. And then he'd make a lot of money. He would dust Conor. If he could talk Conor into that.

But Conor and Chandler is interesting, too. You know, I guess it's actually gonna happen That's so crazy your weight Which is bananas listen, that's but somebody says something to him about a like we got a no-name and me I would fight Connor you won't fight 85 shit man change my life I'm gonna fuck you up. I Will fuck that dude, but he's fighting Chandler at 85 who is not an 85. You know what I'm not used to yet, Joe? The casuals that go, are you in Conor's weight class?

Oh. You fucking, like what? You got to tune out the casuals. You have enough conflict in your past. So that's what I struggle with. My past, I'm cool with. Like I don't think about it every day. Do you read comments?

Sometimes. So I'm like, sometimes don't think about it every day. Do you read comments? Sometimes. So I'm like, sometimes. Don't do it, Joe. Bro, it motivates me sometimes. Does it really? It does. You really need motivation? I always, I think, so yeah, I do.

Because I don't always want to fight. I'm not fighting out of anger in my past. I have that anger because it's just, bro, I'm bred like that. Right, but you're also fighting out of ambition. I'm fighting out of ambition. You drive and discipline. You know what my biggest drive is? Like I said, that dream car, that dream house, that loved one, that travel life.

Like, bro, I want to live life. I want to see the world. You want a life that you didn't have when you were young. I'm scared, bro. I totally get it. I'm scared to grow old and never see what this world has. And I mean, like, sights-wise. Like, I want to go to Ireland.

I want to go to Switzerland. I want to go see places. I hear you. You'll see those things. Yeah, man. I really believe it. Right. But don't read the comments.

I did almost fight one of the fans. I did. That's what I'm saying. Bro, I tried to get him to come to the gym. I was like, man, this would be great fucking content, right? But then I was like,

man, that's corny. And I actually think the guy would have followed through. He was that fucking stupid. There's a lot of dummies. There's so many videos

of guys showing up at gyms and online internet trolls getting head kicked. There's so many of them. I just watched some recent one where some guy

went into a Muay Thai gym and the dude hit him with a leg kick and then fucking shinned him in the head. Can you? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, he brutalized him with a leg kick, and then the guy didn't move right, and then stepped back, boom, head kick, and flatlined him.

Just some dumbass in there troll. That's hard, right? Like, on that subject, that's hard, right? Like, I'll read the comments sometimes because I'm petty. Like, I went back after I beat Abdul, and I was like, yeah, talk that shit now. Like say something, you know what I mean? Just to those few, I saved three particular comments. You haven't saved.

I did. And I went back. I went back. Joe, that's so crazy. Yeah. Well, I'm an elephant, bro. When you hurt me. I get it.

You don't forget. But nothing you get taught to deal with, right, is what to say and what not to say. People always give their opinion. Like, even before coming on here, don't talk about a certain thing because I have my beliefs, right? So we stay in a safe space. We can talk about it. There's plenty of things. What are people telling you not to talk about? Well, you don't talk about politics.

You don't talk about people's parents. You don't talk about religion, shit like that. You know what I mean? I would say don't talk about other people's parents. That's a good one Yeah, but politics and religion that's just a part of life. Anybody says you should That's the thing though if I give my political view on this It's like it opens up a door not you know You'll get a lot of new like people but it opens up the door for all these other wide It's such a diverse, such a controversial argument.

It's like, I'll have this conversation with you off camera all day long. I got my beliefs. I think you know where I'm at. But it's like, yeah, I mean, it's just certain things you don't. Well, this is a very divided country, more so than, I'm 56. Never in my life have I seen this country more divided. That's crazy. Never.

You look like you fucking figured out how to reverse time, man. You're talking about me being big. You're fucking wider than me. I stay healthy. Yeah. TRT and a lot of vitamins. And I'm always doing something. I'm very active in taking care of my body.

Do you wish you fought? No. No. You wish you had a fight. I had kickboxing fights. I had three kickboxing fights. And I had about 100 Taekwondo fights. And I unfortunately— Yeah, I've seen your fucking spinning back kick, bro.

I'm not fucking—I'm going to stay out of range on that. I unfortunately also came up in a gym that didn't spar smart. We sparred hard. We fought. It was like a lot of knockouts. When did you start? I started martial arts when I was 15. That's when I started seriously.

I took a little bit of it before. I took karate when I was 14. I fucked around a little bit before that. But when I was 15, I became obsessed. And, you know, just wasn't really good at anything other than art. I was a good artist. But it was nothing that really made me feel

like I was a special person until I started was nothing that really made me feel like I was a special person until I started doing martial arts. Then when I started winning, and I became obsessed, I was training every day, and I started getting really good, winning tournaments. And then I realized, oh, I'm not a loser. I just never figured out what to do. And now I found a thing to do. And I know that if I just work hard, I can be exceptional and I can get better at it. But I was also, when I was making the transition into kickboxing, there was, first of all, there's no money. This is, we're talking 1988. There's no money in it. And there's no money in kickboxing. I wasn't a good boxer. I didn't have a lot of boxing

experience. And some of the guys that I was training with were going into boxing, this one kid uh Dana Rosenblatt who went on to be the New England middleweight champion and he beat Vinny Pazienza he beat Howard Davis Jr. Vinny Pazienza fought uh Roy Jones yes yeah he was the only guy broken neck yeah well he did he broke his neck in a car accident um but when I was watching those guys one of the things that I was seeing was brain damage. And I was seeing guys where I knew them from five years ago and then I know them now. And I was noticing slurring, a slowness to the way they were thinking. And, you know, I was just seeing people didn't just spar. They fought in the gym.

And, you know, there's a lot of that from the early days of MMA as well. You know, particularly like Shoot the Box. Those guys just beat the fuck out of each other. Like the old Miletic fighters. Those guys beat the fuck out of each other. There was a lot of camps where the amount of damage. Like I've talked to Shob about this too. About him training with like Shane Carwin and those guys back in the day in Denver.

They beat the fuck out of each other. And the damage that you take in the gym, that shit counts. It's real. And in that way, I'm glad I didn't because I started seeing, you know, I had a lot of headaches and that kind of shit early on. And I was like, and there was no future. I didn't have a future in fighting. It didn't have a future in fighting there was no it didn't exist so when the ufc came along uh which was uh 1993 i'd already stopped

fighting i was already doing stand-up comedy but i was like oh they figured it out this is it somebody figured it out because back then it was always like how do you make a living as a martial artist if you want to compete there's no money you have to open up a school the only thing you could do is teach at a school and then compete in tournaments and there's no money in the tournaments but then when the UFC came along also we realized like how much of what people were doing was nonsense how much of what people were doing was wasted time so that's how it was when Eddie was coming up it was like barroom brawl type fucking training yeah and that's that's how I grew when Eddie was coming up. It was like barroom brawl type fucking training. Yeah.

And that's how I grew up when I seen it. Yeah. Bro, my dad used to be pitting me at 12 years old against 16-year-olds, and I remember I fucking thought my head was bleeding. I'm sure. And probably was. Yeah. You know, that kind of training, it teaches you how to be tough and how to deal with, like, a real fight. And you definitely get more comfortable with really throwing but the consequences of those shots that you receive in training are legitimate

you know jerry quarry you know who he is famous boxer fought muhammad ali back in the day just a crazy tough dude who just walked forward and just ate punches and took a beating just a tough tough dude well he had a bunch of, and at the end of his life, he was a vegetable. He was just gone. Yeah. Well, his brother only had, like, one pro fight, I think. And his brother never had a pro career.

His brother was just as fucked up as he was at the end of his life. And it was all from the gym, all from just gym wars. You know, I was watching uh video last night on wilford bernitez and uh they were talking about wilford wilfredo bernitez during his day was just an insanely slick boxer you know returned pro when he was 17 was a world champion shortly after that was his incredible defensive boxer out of puerto Rico and at the end of his life man where he is now I'm like he's bedridden he's a vegetable basically that's him now I mean it's so hard to see that shame yeah I heard last fight of Wilford Benitez the pride of Puerto Rico the

ailing boxing grades now fully depend on his sister who watches over him their humble part apartment so that's exactly another reason, right? Like when you want to talk about what we were talking about, me going 200 mile an hour. Yeah. I could go into like that shit. I don't like reading that stuff because that sits in the back of my mind too. I don't want to be a fucking vegetable. Of course.

Right. But I'm not, and I'm not knocking our pay, but we don't make what any other professional athlete makes well you do at the high end at the high end right but yeah you know i'm three fights in i'm fortunate to be getting the main event and i i don't know but i i was told that there's only one other person that's done that in my division and i don't know who it is and i want to know who it is i don't know but obviously there's a shit ton of hype on you you know you've got a lot of a lot of great hype on you which is which you know what's crazy doesn't do anything to me like i don't feel like i think dc didn't believe me at first when i was i made my debut when i got in the usc the weight on my shoulders dropped

now there's another way that comes on right right? The expectation and things like that, that I hold myself to, but I'm like, man, like, I don't give a fuck if there's a thousand people, if there's zero people, if there's 50,000 people, it doesn't phase me. I don't care about that. I'm so like locked in on your face. Like that's, that's what I want. Like you motherfucker, like you are the second half of my paycheck. I'm coming for you. And I think sometimes that's where you have really talented guys that don't know how to get past the lights, the cameras. It's a big moment. You see it all the time in fighters when they make that UFC debut. Some guys just rise to the occasion, and you see them better than they've ever been before in the UFC debut. Because they belong there.

They're champions. They just have to. And then there's other guys that get dwarfed by the moment. The moment hits them and they're just, whew. Well, you know what's crazy is like the moment hits you, like it's a weird feeling. It's so different even for me sitting as a fan watching. Like you don't realize what that person's going through when you walk out. And it's like a cold sweat because it's a fucking big ass building like AC.

It's like that cold sweat, but you're kind of hot. And then you fucking realize when you're in there, it's like, everything's like so amplified and you're like, fuck man. Like I'm about to get into a fist fight. Yeah.

But then that's where you make that decision. Like once that finally hits your brain, which we all have it, it's like you, you either can hone in on what you're about to do or you can hone in on the fact that you don't feel like being there. Right. And one of the things that I've come to terms with is I think that changed my trajectory

and my career and the way I fought because if you watch my early fights, I would just go out there and try to blitz and get out of there and just fuck you up and knock you out and get out. That's what I wanted to do. I don't force trying to knock people out. don't force the finish i don't i just try to wear and then catch you i know i need one in my head i'm convinced you could be francis nganu i think i need one that's i wholeheartedly believe that i don't and then you got the other aspect of fighters that convince themselves. Oh, I can knock somebody out But you just don't truly believe it's different

Yeah, there's a difference between coaching yourself to believe it and actually fucking believing it Well, you have extraordinary power, you know And what I was saying about the result callous on fight is that you showed another level poise in that fight It was another level of technique. It was another level of like, again, it's very difficult for a fighter to express themselves. You know when a guy's on in the gym and you just go,

motherfucker, look at that dude. Sometimes guys just look like they're on fire. They're timing, they're everything. Look at a world beater. You're like, who could beat that dude? Right, who could beat that dude? And then it's very difficult to express that inside the octagon So when you hear a lot of great things about fighters, and then you see a performance you got to go

Okay, they got to get over the anxiety. They got to get over the pressure They got to get over the experience boundary because you do need Experience in front of different styles no matter what no matter how well you train and how good your training partners are, you need live experience against really talented fighters to really develop to your full potential. And in the, the Razak fight, I saw it with you. I was like, okay, he hit another, he had another level. Yeah. I wish, I wish I'm, I was, that was a tough fight. It was, it was a, it was a scary fight to take because he was tactically behind me, and he had all knockouts. Right?

So there's that, in the back of your head, there's that fear like, ah, shit. He can clip anybody. He can clip anybody, right? But in the same token, I just kept it very small. I didn't buy into that. It was like, bro, you're a middleweight short guy that is coming up to a weight you don't belong. That's my opinion.

Do you think that he should be 170? 100%. Yeah. He does not belong at 185. And he doesn't, he's not the leanest guy at 185. He's a thick spark plug built type style. He's a fire hydrant, right? Like he is a big man at 170.

I just think he's lazy. That sucks. I think he's lazy. That's my opinion because the fact that I took you down that easy, the fact that I kept you down that easy, bro, I put that joke in pretty basic, and I felt him wilt. I think the slam really was like, what the fuck? And then he got slammed again.

There's such a difference in size. There's such a difference in size. And I've advocated many times for multiple weight classes. I think the jump between 70 and 85 is too high, and I think the jump between 85 and 205 is way too high. 20 pounds is so big. It is. It is.

I mean, obviously, Pejeta pulls it off, but he's a freak. 195 would be a sweet-ass class, man. I think you get the perfect – you get the height. So it's funny. Every fighter will contest to say that their division is the best, but I think the perfect athlete is my size. The height. The power.

The power. Right. The explosiveness. Everything. If you can, I think, I do. Like a Yoel Romero. Like that, you get a taller guy. I mean, he's not the tallest, right?

But you get a, or even a Paul Acosta. Right. You look at their build. Like I think that's the perfect mix between a not too tall, just the right height, big, explosive. High volume. High volume. Unlike heavyweights.

Yeah. But still crazy knockout power. Yeah. Yeah. But that's just me. No, I see that argument. 85 is obviously a very deep division too. Because there's a big size difference between 70 and 85. It's a big difference, which is the that argument. 85 is obviously a very deep division, too. Because there's a big size difference between 70 and 85.

It's a big difference, which is the Calvin argument. Like when, you know, but then when Calvin went down to 170, but Sean's a big one, fucking 72. His back looks like it's two people's backs. Strickland? No, Sean Brady. Oh, Brady? Bro, he's just chest, dick, and legs. It's insane.

His back is like layers of bricks. He's an ape. Yeah. Literally, his lats sit. He's got so much what you would call squeeze power. Yeah. You can see all that squeeze power on him. That's exactly it.

This fucker, when he gets you in something, you think, man, he's squeezing with everything he's got. And then it just keeps going. And it keeps going. It keeps going. It's like, what the fuck? Bro, his back. It's like these layers of like muscle that is just when he's like walking it's ridiculous he's got an extra back on top of his back it's i don't know what the fuck i don't know

he deadlifts more than me squats more than you fuck him i don't like this big fucker dude but when you look at a guy like that like that's a legit 170. That guy at 170 is a fucking terrifying force. Like a Kamaru Usman at 170, that's a terrifying force. And if you're 20 pounds heavier than that? You know who's a freak at 70, though? Andy, not Andy, Randy Brown. Oh, yeah. That's a tall boy.

He can box, man. He can box. I was so mad at the way that we literally said, like, yo, don't exit. Don't exit. You can't exit with your hands down, bro. He's going to swing bombs over hands. He's got to reach you.

Fucking did it, man. Yeah. I think that it happens. Yeah, it happens. You know, Jalen Turner's another one. That dude at 155, that is crazy. I love Bobby Green. I do, too.

I watched him for years. I was so mad at that. That was horrible. But he did his years. I was so mad at that. That was horrible. But he did his job. Well, that referee though, that referee should have stopped that fight 10, 15 punches earlier. Yeah, the referees. I don't know who it was. I don't know what happened.

They're good. I don't want to say his name, but ordinarily he's good. I don't know what happened. People fuck up. They make mistakes. Yeah, it happens. You give a guy a chance. You think the guy's going to survive.

It's like we were watching the Jose Luis Castillo fight it's like it's a tough job to be in the like to know when to call it because you don't want to take that opportunity from somebody yeah like what was the one fight Yuri Prohaska and Alex yeah man I was pissed watching it I was like yo like let him fucking try still moving he's still moving and Yuri has shown the ability to recover like the Dominic Reyes fight. He was out on his feet. Bro, I love Uri.

Uri's a bad man. I love that reel when he's screaming out in the wild. Yeah. Bro, I've done that in my truck. Bro, how funny was Jamal Hill? Jamal Hill, when Uri did that thing, he was outside. I'm coming. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm coming. He was at Brendan Allen's court. That's what she said. That's what she said. Jamal Hill's cool. He's hilarious. He's funny as shit. I'm excited about his return.

Him against Bejeda, that is a very exciting fight. Yeah, he had that. I think he beats him. He might. I think he beats him. Bro, I think he's deceptive. He looks fluffy, but he's quick and he's got snap. Well, what he did to Glover Teixeira.

Glover Teixeira is a bad man. Bro, that dude did not want to lose. No. That's a man that wanted it. He's a bad man. And Jamal put it on him. Yeah. He put it on him.

Jamal is so good at finding your fucking chin. He's just got this range intelligence, this intelligence of when to strike and when to... There's so many of his fights where you watch the movement. He's like a snake charmer. He knows how to put it on you.

The Johnny Walker one. When everybody said that Jamal doesn't hit hard, what the fuck are you talking about? That is the weirdest fucking knockout I've ever seen. I thought he was fucking, I thought he went, he went, yeah, he like bent forward and then flew back. And I was like, I've never seen some dumb shit like that ever. Johnny has been knocked out a lot.

And the thing is like when a guy gets knocked out a lot, it's like, you got to wonder how much. He's got his nose broken. Yeah. Ancalaya was a bad man. That's a thick dude, man. That's what I was talking about when I was saying, like, yo, you've got different bone densities. Like, that's a thick guy.

Well, then you've got to think of Jan Bohovic. Jan Bohovic went shin to shin with that dude and fucked his legs up. Like, Jan Bohovic is made out of rocks. Like, that fucking dude. And that's another one. He's built like SpongeBob SquarePants. When Adesanya went up to 205, like, that guy was too big. Yeah.

He's too big. That's a giant jump, man. That's a giant jump. You think Izzy comes back 2027 or sooner? You know. I think sooner. I think sooner. I think, you know, you say things like that because your body's beat up.

He went through so many camps in a row. He defended his title more than any other champion. So active as a champion. So active. You're going to get – and then I fucking think he just didn't – I think he slept on Sean a little bit. I think he burnt out. I think it was a little bit of that.

I think he burnt out. But also I think he thought Sean wasn't on his level. I think he thought he was going to piece him up the way he did with Paulo Costa. Yeah. That he was just going to go piece him up. But Sean is so hard to hit. They did that thing with the UFC. I think it's a mouthpiece where it registers how many times you get hit.

Sean spars more than anybody, and he gets hit less than anybody, which is pretty extraordinary. That style is very sneaky. I know the Philly shell. I don't do it the same way he does, but. It's weird to see someone do it in MMA because no one else does it. He walks. It doesn't.

It just looks odd. But he also doesn't dip. Mm-hmm. So I think that's kind of like a part of his defense. Right. A lot of people that do the Philly shell, like me, sometimes I'll dip into a certain side. And it's like he just kind of stands straight and leans and either puts his arms out. Yeah.

The problem with dipping with kicks is like. Kick your face off, man. Yeah. You zig when you should have zagged and that shin's coming at you. And this, you know, I mean, it's, there's so many fucking good fights to be had right now. There's so many good fights that are coming up. You know, one of them I'm really fucking excited about is Volkanovski versus Ilya Topuria.

Ilya's. I like watching Ilya box, bro. That's a bad man. He hunts the body. I love it. He's a bad man. He's a tough dude. He's a guy that knows how to take it, too. If you watch that Jai Herbert fight where he got head kicked. Bad. He still came back. Yeah, and that's at 55,

too. I do think Ilya wins. He's a 45er. I do think Ilya wins. Really? I do, yeah. Me and Sean do a little tiny podcast on picking fights. This is a situation I wanted to talk to you about this because there's a lot of different philosophies on this. I understand why Usman took that last-minute fight against Hanzat,

and I understand why Volkanovsky took that last minute fight against Makachev. And as a fan, when I was at home and they announced those changes, I was like, oh, shit. But the reality is you need a camp. You are not the same guy with 10 days notice as you are with 10 weeks notice. You are just not the same guy and when you look at the volkanovski that fought makachev the first time that was a guy who went through a full fucking camp and was a plus rip ready to go full gas tank let's fucking go yeah the guy let alone what it does for you mentally yes yes you have to go through that suffering to know that you were built

strong enough to withstand what you're about to go through. And I won't take no fucking short notice of it. I'll die. I don't think you should either. I really don't think anyone should, even though I like them when they make them. I'm a hypocrite. I won't do it. Because as a fan, I'm like, ooh, I can't wait to see this. You can be a hypocrite as long as you're a fan.

But if I was in Usman's corner, if Kamara was my friend and I'd'd say don't do it don't do it i think you beat that guy with a camp yeah i mean even at 85 i think you beat that guy because if you look at the third round he was coming on strong yeah it comes that was done and he didn't have a camp at all yeah i think there's a difference a giant difference it's not like a five% difference I think it's like a 25% difference probably even more than that and when you look at Makachev first of all Makachev is a fucking monster he's a monster you do not want to fight that guy when he's gone through a full camp in Dagestan rip ready to go and he had

adjusted to Volkanovski style he had a completely good solution he had a perfect solution the kicks to the body perfect solution. The kicks to the body. He was throwing those kicks to the body. He set up that head kick. He took away Volkanovski's leg kicks from the outside. He took away all the shit that Volkanovski was doing to him that was troubling him in the first fight. And he imposed his will on him. But that's often the problem,

right? You go, you take a short notice fight. Sure. Now everybody will sit here and say, man, that guy's got balls. And then that rides off into the sunset and that's all you got for it. Or you get Aspinall. Tom Aspinall wins the title on short notice fight and couldn't even spar. His rib was all fucked up. He couldn't even train.

Couldn't wrestle. And he's fighting Sergey, who's a monster. He's a monster, but I think they blew him up. They blew Sergey up? I think they blew him up. Yeah, because they needed the next crazy punching power guy. Well, he does have that. He definitely does. But you also have to look at the

Alistair-Overeem fight. Alistair fucked him up. I mean, honestly, Alistair, yes, Alistair did and exposed his wrestling and things like that, but I mean... Alistair's the guy. That's the steroid argument. That's the guy. Yeah, that's the guy for legalizing steroids. That's a fucking... argument like that's their guy. Yeah, that's the guy for legalizing steroids

I Remember I remember I was so like excited we couldn't afford to fucking buy it But I was like when him and Brock Lesnar fought And I was like man I just remembered like the hype video and I was like, you know, these are two fucking giants like huge and but then again Brock probably shouldn't have taken that fight either because Brock was just a few months out of diverticulitis surgery where he had to get a length of his colon or his intestine removed. Thank God, man.

I've never had anything like that. To get kicked in the body like that from Alistair, who's a K-1 Grand Prix champion, and juiced to the tits at 260. Yeah. Alistair was huge. Do you think that... He was fucking huge, man.

Do you think that the heavyweight... Do you think the heavyweight limit should be 285? No. I don't think there should be a limit. I don't either. I don't think it makes any sense. We don't have a super heavyweight class. I say anything above 330 is too much.

Why? Let him fight. Because then you're going to get some fat motherfucker that ain't throwing a single punch. Let that guy get fucked up by Francis. Fair enough. But I don't think you should cut weight. I think you should be like a heavyweight in boxing. Like when

Andy Ruiz fought Joshua, terrible in the second fight. He was so fat. He was 280 pounds. But that's just what you are. That's it. This is heavyweight. Heavyweight is heavyweight.

This idea of a super heavyweight class, we've never utilized it. There is a weight class above 265. Why do you think Dana won't do it? There's nobody there. Who's there? No, no, no. Even like a 195, a 175. I don't know.

They don't listen to me. Listen, if it was me, I would do two things very, very early on. If it was my decision, and it would fucking throw everything into chaos, but ultimately be better for the sport. Number one thing I would do is more weight classes. I would say

minimum every 10 pounds. I agree with that. And at the lighter weight classes, you could go five pounds. Look at what boxing does. Boxing is, you know, 126, 130, 135. They go. I think it would be the cleanest organization to have every 10 pounds. 10 pounds.

But without, like, boxing, there's four different fucking belts at each weight class. Right. Or whatever it is. Well, there is kind of with the UFC, you know, I mean people respect obviously Johnny Eblen is like one of the best middleweights on the planet Earth without a doubt and unfortunately He's fighting at Bellator and the casual has no idea who he is with a guy's a monster and then you just got announced to fight Impa yes, yes Me and impa fought in the same contender series when I broke my arm and he won. Yeah.

I like Impa. Impa's a great guy. And unfortunately, he's at the wrong end of that highlight kick from Joaquin Buckley. Hit him with one of the craziest kicks of all time. That jump spinning back kick while he was holding his left leg. That was wild. Yeah, that was. That was wild.

And Joaquin is another one. That dude at 170 is a fucking problem. And he's a guy who was a big, muscular guy who decided to fight at 85 and was beating a lot of guys at 85 because he's so powerful. But you see him at 170, his gas tank is crazy. His skills look like he's on another level. I know he was salty i told him in the back before i beat abdul i was i'm gonna take that bonus from you

they were talking shit on me when i walked in the fucking pi though oh yeah so yeah but me me and buckley are cool but i love buckley yeah he was like man be joe pifer and abdul was like man fuck joe pifer i was like ah that's how you feel. But yeah, it was funny. Joaquin's funny. Joaquin at 170 is a real force. He's a real force. I think as he moves up in the rankings at 170, I think that's his real weight class. So here's the thing, though.

When I look at a guy like Buckley, and hopefully he watches this or he doesn't watch this and get offended, but how does he fare against somebody like like you still got Kevin Holland yeah whooped him he did he whooped him at 185 you got I think the in all fairness I think Waukegan is a way better fight he's a way better fighter now at 170 yeah now look you get better you keep the dude is driven as fuck yeah he's constantly training he's getting better everybody gets better or they don't and Or they don't. And when they don't, you see that, too.

You see those guys that plateau. I would like to see Joaquin against a guy like Jeff Neal type of deal. I like Jeff Neal. Well, dude, Jeff Neal is another guy. Go back and watch his Bilal Muhammad fight. He peaced up Bilal back in the day. Jeff Neal was the dark horse. When he knocked out Mike Perry, when he hit him with that head kick, Jeff Neal is a motherfucker

when he's on. I think he's the one that put Mike Perry's fucking nose on the other side of his face. I thought it was too, but Mike corrected me online. It was Vicente Luque. Vicente Luque did that to his nose. Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Meanwhile, Mike Perry at Bare Knuckle Boxing

is one of the fucking dangerous human beings ever. Yeah. He's specifically designed for bare knuckle fighting. That guy is uniquely qualified to do that. Lorenzo Hunt, you know him? Yeah. I beat him. Did you?

Choked him unconscious. In an MMA fight? Yeah, my third or fourth pro fight. He said, man, that's somebody's kid. That's somebody's kid. And I choked him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't throw a single fucking punch.

He came out, threw a wild right hand, took him down, choked him out. He's a very good bare knuckle boxer. That was my first introduction because I was still kind of undersized at middleweight. He was my first introduction to an old head that was like 33, 34 that had fucking grown man strength. You see that motherfucker's head? His shit's like this fucking big. Yeah, he's stout. Yeah, yeah.

Bare knuckle fighting is not getting the respect that it deserves you know i think it's too brutal for the common people yeah i think so you're probably right but i'm a big fan of uh the juggernaut he's a beast yeah i love watching those guys too it's just because it's such a hard way to do it it's such a hard way to do it i mean bare knuckle boxing is fucking rough you see when rockhold quit, when Mike Perry blasted his teeth out, he's like, that's it. Bro, honestly, Rockhold is the biggest disappointment to me. He used to be one of my favorite fighters, and he's just like, I didn't realize how fucking socially stupid he is.

In an interview, it's the worst shit I've ever listened to. Yeah, you better. I'm coming. It's like, you don't know what the fuck to say? Well, in his prime, the man was a monster. Yeah, he was. I'm coming. It's like, you don't know what the fuck to say? Well, in his prime, the man was a monster. Yeah, he was a beast, man. He was a fucking monster in his prime. When he beat up Chris Weidman and won the title.

That was a crazy fight. And then he just kind of like fell off. Ever since Mike fucking checked his shit, I think Mike ruined him. Bisping. Yeah. I think Mike fucking broke him, man. Well, that was a bad loss. And to fight Bisping on short notice and be like

super cocky there's a thing about being confident and being delusional or overconfident or not respecting your opponent and you know everybody deserves it yeah i don't know if that's what happened without asanya and strickland i think strickland is just that good i really do think i don't think i don't think izzy like sidestepped him as much as we think i just think i think people don't understand when you're in there and you've got a guy that never fucking takes a step backwards, it throws you off. You never can plant. So you're not hitting your power shots. You're not doing the damage that you would if you were dictating.

You're not going on your terms when you're going backwards the whole time. And that's why I think DDP has a good chance because he's going to fight for that center to walk forward. He's got to walk forward. Sean walks forward. I just think because DDP kind of falls over his knee when he attacks, I think he's going to get Sean to move back. But for how long? We'll see.

I'm very interested to see who prevails. I think he does well early. The Abus fight, Abus-Mangamedov fight, I think that fight was one of the most impressive fights, the Strickland's fight. I do too. I think it was well early. The Abus fight, Abus-Magomedov fight, I think that fight was one of the most impressive fights of Strickland's fight. I do too. I think it was underwhelming to people though. Abus comes out in that first round like a bat out of hell, but he just gassed out. I mean, he would

gassed out at the end of the first round. He was throwing bombs. He was trying to take him out. I think Abus was just so used to taking guys out that he thought he could just put it on Sean. And he was hitting Sean with fucking fire. Yeah. He was hitting him. That dude's good, man. He's good.

But Sean just wilted him. He just wilted him. Yeah, man. He doesn't get tired. Yeah. It's crazy when you have a guy who spars as much as Sean because the bulk of Sean's training is sparring, and he spars hard.

He's so accustomed to that that that's really like a fight all the time. He knows himself very well. He knows what he's good at. And he knows what he likes. He knows what works for him. So why fix what's not broken? You know, so. How do you think, what do you think Adesanya does when he comes back? Like, who does he fight?

Like, he's not going to fight Paulo Costa. Well, he's still ranked, right? Of course. Like, but why wouldn't you take him out of the rankings if he's saying he's not coming back for three, four years? Because he's not really. Right. But that's why I'm asking that. I don't think he's going to sit out that long either.

Three years is crazy. That would be a crazy thing to do. I mean, unless, look, I haven't talked to him. He may have, like, real injuries that need, like, real. Like we said, he fought so much he was active. I think this fight happens this weekend. I think maybe one or two more title fights, whoever is holding it. I think if DDP wins, there's a chance he slides in to fight Drakus.

Just because of all that shit. That Adesanya fight? It could be. And also Hamzat. You got to wonder where Hamzat fits in that. I mean, obviously Hamzat beat Usman. I don't think they're going to get it to him. They might.

You think? Yeah. Well, he's got superstar power. Yeah, he's got superstar power. I mean, honestly, I get nervous watching him with excitement because I love watching him. It's his face. It's the way he looks.

It's his persona. He's like doing this shit. He's smiling at him at the beginning of the fight. He looks evil. He does. He's got the look of somebody that like, man, this motherfucker's about it. And he is. He's tough.

He's a gangster, man. He goes out there and he does his game. And, you know, he's not a quitter. Adesanya injured. Shares timeline for full-time return to training camp. Last time by the look return sooner than many expected. Although his current rehab schedule doesn't make UFC 300 fight look very likely.

Okay, so he is talking about coming back. So when it says he's injured, does it share what the injury is? It doesn't say specific. I was just looking to hopefully share that, but it doesn't say specific. Yeah, I think there's stuff that he's been dealing with.

So I got this injury and it'll take a while to recover. A long time to recover and whatnot. Like, I'm like, what are you telling them? A smart coach who knows the injury exists will try to use it against you. So he's not going to tell anybody what the injury is. So far I'm recovering very well and I'm on track. If he's got something that's that big, that's either like knees or back or neck generally.

Generally. Or, you know, it could be other joints. neck generally generally or you know could be other joints but generally when when someone's got a significant injury like that and they need a lot of time off it could be a back thing it could be a knee thing it could be a gastrointestinal thing yeah you never know i mean i think i think that's like i had a lot of struggles with like stomach problems like did you yeah man i was just i always felt like like I had this crazy acid feeling in my stomach. It said he's aiming to get back in the gym, training hard by the end of February. That doesn't bode well for fans hoping UFC 300 in April.

No, I don't think he's going to be at UFC 300, but he might be in the June card when Conor returns. They're going to want to stack that card up. How do you think that goes? Well, I don't like it that it's at 85. Is it actually confirmed at 85? I don't know. I know he said that.

He's drinking wine and talking shit with a Rolex on. I'm like, who knows? Who knows? Bro, that man drinks. He does. That man drinks. That man does some stuff. He likes to party.

See, that's like – and he's also, he's getting older as well. And he's also coming off the sauce, right? So he gets on the sauce, rightly so, to recover from that bone injury. It's a significant injury. You snap your femur and your tibia, rather, and your fibula. You snap those in half and your ankle's dangling. That's a long road back. And it's been two years now plus.

And, you know, if he really is going to fight in June and he maybe just doesn't want to cut any weight and he walks around at 85. So what I was saying earlier, there's two things I would do. One is every 10 pounds. Two, I would try to figure out a way to stop weight cutting. I would try to figure out a way to get fighters to fight. I think almost killing yourself 24 hours before you fight in the cage is insane. Almost killing yourself by dehydration is insane.

I think they should figure out what guys actually weigh when they are low body fat, hydrated, and say this is your weight class. And this happens because there's not enough weight classes. Right. And this happens because there's not enough weight classes. Right. And don't you think they could, instead of having fights scheduled at 155 and 170 and 185, what about more catchweight fights? What about more guys fighting at what their natural weight is? I don't understand why they don't do catchweight fights because there's so many interesting matchups.

One of them was always the GSP versus Silva, Anderson Silva. But Silva's losing weight to get to 185. Yeah. And GSP, when he went up to fight 185 when he fought Bisping, he had to put a bunch of weight on. It was a struggle for him. He was eating like six times a day. He got sick.

He was throwing up all the time. He was trying to eat so much food just to maintain the mass. I think that those fights are exciting, like super fights where guys go up a weight class or down a weight class. But I think the real way to do this is to reshape the sport where you cut what I call sanctioned cheating out. Everybody's doing it. There's nothing wrong with doing it.

Don't get me wrong. But the fact that you don't really weigh 185, but you fight at 185 pounds. When I interview you and you're 185, I'm like, how? When I interview Drekus, I'm like, how? How are you 185? It doesn't make any sense. You're not 185.

You're fucking Pejeta. Pejeta's fucking huge. How are you 185? You're not 185. This is nonsense. You're really a 225- You're not 185. This is nonsense. You're really a 225-pound man. That's what you look like. That's what you are. And that's really

what the weight that you should be fighting at. And I think guys would fight better. I think they would have less deterioration of their endurance over the course

of a five-round fight if they weren't fucking radically dehydrated 24 hours ago. It's just, it's avoidable. And that's the other part of it, too. Like, people that walk around, like, let's say I walked around at 85, and radically dehydrated 24 hours ago. It's avoidable. That's the other part of it, too, like people that walk around.

Let's say I walked around at 85. Well, if I fight at 85, I'm undersized. I'm walking around at 85 and you've got all these fucking people cutting down. If I'm with the two guys that ever did that, I'm not that big. Frankie Edgar's the last guy that did that. Frankie Edgar's the last guy that was a champion that walked around at 155 and fought at 155. He was always undersized. And beat BJ Penn and Gray Maynard and beat all these guys at his natural weight.

But that's really not where he should have been. And he wound up at the end of his career at 135, which is really probably where he should have been all along. Yeah. But, you know, trying to convince guys to do that when there's guys like you that are cutting the weight, that are massive for that weight class, it's crazy. You would never do it. You shouldn't do it. I don't fucking add to weight class. weight that are massive for that weight class. It's crazy. You would never do it. You shouldn't do it. I don't fucking add the weight class. I'm tired of fucking cutting weight. I hate cutting weight.

They should add the weight class. They should have 185, 195, 205, maybe 215, 225. You should have seen me earlier in my career. Like I said, I was 174 fighting in 185. I was skinny as fuck. I've always been skinny. I'm still kind of skinny. What did you do to put the weight on? This is where I get So this is where I get to plug my guy, right? So I never had a

strength and conditioning coach ever, ever. And when I got into, so I was sitting at a light one day coming back from Philadelphia practice at Marquez and at the light, this guy's like, yo, he's like, you're Joe Piper, right? I was like, yeah. And he's like, you should come by my gym one day. And I was like, eh, like, I was like, kind of like, eh, like's like, you're Joe Pfeiffer, right? I was like, yeah. And he's like, you should come by my gym one day. And I was like, eh. I was kind of like, eh. Like, nah, probably not. Like, what the fuck?

Like, I don't even know you. I winded up going, winded up hitting him up. Like, yo, do you do personal training? He was like, yeah, of course. His name's Adam Ferris. He owns a gym called Pursuit. It's right in Washington Township, like right around where I live, right? I worked with him.

We didn't do anything crazy, anything hard or anything. I was skinny as fuck still. Cause I just came off of being, you know, having two surgeries and all that stuff. I was still on the road back. And, uh, after I won my 50 grand bonus and I won my debut, I was still super skinny. Yeah. I think DC interviewed me. You interviewed me once and it was Miami. So from that time, when I won my debut, I was still skinny and I didn't have a chance to ever have like a power program because I took a fight a month after I won the contract. So, and then I didn't have a chance to have a weight lifting program because I'd had a comeback fight and then I broke my ankle. So I never got a long enough period to build my body back. And I also didn't have a strength coach. Like I

just, for some reason, I never thought I needed one. I made it to the UFC on the first, before I continue, I made it to the contender series, hitting pads three days a week with the man that I brought, Sam Morpiza, who had a full-time job and we would do it at 5am, three days a week. I wrestled with my, my, one of my best friends, um, who literally was only a wrestler, had no MMA experience. And he was like five, seven. And he was just like a sauced fucking wrestler. And that's it. I literally, and I sparred with Corey Anderson once a week. Wow. That's it. That's how I made it. That's how I was making all these fights. And I was knocking everybody out and doing all this. So now that I have structure, now that I actually have a system with Marquez, I have jujitsu with Jonathan

Webb, like, and I'd be fucking Gerald Mearshart, the middleweight submission, highest fucking whatever dude got waxed, like didn't even come close to beating me, you know? So I, my jujitsu is underrated and my wrestling is underrated, but I think it will come to light, you know, with a guy like Jack, but, um, so you started the strength and conditioning program so what kind of stuff are you doing so man i'll like i was doing a power program so i do like a six to eight week power program a deads squats and and bench but bench is kind of bullshit because uh i care more about the explosive rep right like that's what we care about because i'm just not putting more than 275 on a bench with my elbow right it's just not worth it

it's not worth the risk it's not worth the the nerve pain right it just doesn't make sense for me so um i'd be dead lifting a fuck and i was squatting a fuck ton i always wanted thick legs i never had it um and then now i started putting on size, and I wanted my back. I've always had a real big back, like strong back, like wide. And so, yeah, I mean, we were doing a power program, and then we would go right into, like, explosiveness and jumps and ladder drills and just doing real simple movements but a lot of functionality, like a lot of core twisting,

a lot of med ball slams, a lot of kettlebell stuff and um yeah that's my coach right there adam ferris dude a hole in the wall small ass gym like i hate those fucking things so much um yeah those single leg lunges are rough yeah and then we would just you know um but but my point is jo, I gave myself time after I won 50 grand. Cause then I could afford to eat the way I needed to that. I was basically, I was going to be evicted from where I was living. If I didn't get side money from Dana, who gave me a place to live after I won my contract. And then when I got the 50 grand bonus, I was like, I'm going to fucking eat. Like I get to eat good food. I can buy, you know,

I was like, I'm going to fucking eat. Like, I get to eat good food. I can buy, you know, food's expensive, you know? So, yeah, I took like the next four or five-ish months to build myself. And then when I came in against Gerald, you hyped me up. You were like, it's fucking size. And I was like, dude, my ego. I was like, yes, finally.

Yeah, you looked awesome. I've been called fucking skinny my whole life. Not anymore, brother. Yeah, not anymore. Not at all. And then, obviously, we're doing all that work with something that you've seen, the documentary through all that time. Mm-hmm. So now it's finally, you know, hopefully we get to release it soon.

But, oh, you do have the trailer. There's the official trailer. Yeah. There is the official trailer. We'll play the trailer and end on this. And listen, Joe, I'm a big fan. I'm fucking pumped for you um, I have You know

I'm so fortunate to be in the position that I'm in to be able to watch these fights and one of my favorite things is To watch guys come up. I love it. Thank you and the the Raza Kasan fight was to me was like That's what I like to see a guy with potential to that's just like, oh, now you see it. Like this guy's world championship potential. It's right there. Exactly. And that's the only thing I'll say, and I'll leave my last.

If you look at Jack and you look at me, the way my mind is, Jack's not been able to climb to the top, but he's been against the best and he's lost to the best. Me, and if you look at him where he is now, coming off an injury, 35 years old, do you look at him and say is now coming off an injury, 35 years old, do you look at him and say, Hey, this guy could hold the belt?

No. I think the general public would say, no. If you look at me, there's a lot of question marks still. I still have to prove myself against a lot of good guys. I haven't beat anybody. That's that good.

So I'm really honest with myself, but I'm going to put myself on the map very soon. So I believe I'm excited. And thank you for having me. My pleasure, brother. This has been fucking, my whole life has been crazy

since I got into UFC. It's awesome. Enjoy it, my friend. Okay, so when is this documentary coming out? When will people be able to see it? So our fellow friend Alex Davis, we're working on it. Shout out to Alex.

Can't say it yet, but this was actually filmed by Chandler Henry, who is actually a kid that I went to high school with. So now I got him a job, and he does this for a living. Beautiful. And this was made by him. So we're hoping really soon. I just can't say it yet because that's Alex's job now.

All right. Well, Alex will take care of it, I'm sure. So we'll end on this. And this is available online. You can watch it. It's – what is it called, Jamie? Journey. Official trailer, Journey to the UFC Joe Pfeiffer. can watch it. It's, what is it called, Jamie? Official trailer, Journey to the UFC, Joe Pfeiffer.

Go find it. And February, what is the fight with Hermansen? February 10th. February 10th. Las Vegas. Super Bowl weight. From the Apex. Let's go.

All right. Thanks, Joe. Thank you. My pleasure. I've always believed, ever since I was a kid, that fighting isn't something you do. Fighting is something that chooses you. All my life, I was a throwaway kid.

I was always terrified if I lost, I knew I was getting screamed at or I was going to get hit. Being slapped, punched, kicked, thrown down, hair ripped. To the point that I ran away from home just shy of 17 years old because I couldn't take it anymore. A lot of different people come from broken homes and they hold so much anger inside and hurt. That makes a person just become kind of like an animal. Joe is just on this tear, and then he gets a call from Dana.

Dana's like, I want to put you on the contender series. This is Joey's shot to get in there, and a career-ending injury just happened right in front of my face. 18 years in the game at that point. Gone. In Joe's case, this is the sort of injury that could absolutely end a career. This is an unforgiving sport. When you're the man, everybody loves you. But the second you lose, everybody forgets you.

I wasn't ready to be forgotten. The pain that I know that kid went through and overcame in his life... If you want to beat him, you gotta kill him. Joe didn't really find out that he didn't have a place to live. And he's like, what do I do? And I was like, you go to Vegas and you fight. Joe Piper makes his UFC debut after his week one performance on the contender series. Eight of his nine wins are by finish and six of those are by knockout.

This fight should be an absolute war. I'm scared for my life for the first time ever in any fight. Finally got to fill the W of Pennsylvania. Here is Joe Buddy Piper! And here is Joe Buddy Bear Pfeiffer! If you want to get into the UFC and this is where you want to be, be Joe Pfeiffer. Woo! you