The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #157 with Craig Jones

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

Joe sits down with Craig Jones, a Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt, coach, and champion grappler. www.bteamjj.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Joe Rogan Experience. Trained by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. What's going on? I like the one ear side. Thank you, yeah. That's professional. A lot of guys do that. It helped my hearing.

It's fading in my old age. Do you have fucked up ears because of the cauliflower? Is it fucked up your hearing? Yeah, just one of them. I thought it was cool until the inner ear started to swell and it was messing with my hearing and I was like... Yeah, I was like... I was like, I'm not going to do that.

I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that hearing? Yeah, just one of them. I thought it was cool until the inner ear started to swell and it was messed with my hearing. And I was like, that's not cool anymore. Did you get it fixed? I just face it at the women I'm talking to. Did you get it fixed or do you? Oh, it eventually drained out, but it's as good as it's going to get, I think. Yeah, I always wore ear guards.

I was always scared of the ears because it's just there's a design like it helps capture sound and bring it into your ear. I didn't know the air pods were coming through a curveball and how cool this was. Oh right. Stuff them in there. I jam them in but pop back out. Yeah you gotta wear it over the ears. So let's talk about your tournament. The tournament alright. Where did this come from first of all? Because you've competed at Abu Dhabi. This is what I don't understand. You're going to go head to head with ADCC, which is the biggest grappling organization in the world. By the way, that's Gordon Ryan's belt up there. If you want to look at it. Gordon Ryan, oh man, I might take

that home with me. Yeah. How can I get the money to buy it? Well, I mean, what started it? Well, obviously you can't win a tournament. You put your own tournament on that you can win and probably lose anyway. I mean, really it's for the growth of the sport. We're getting some beef involved, some two pack biggie, Drake, Kendrick energy to this, but really to compensate the athletes well and to raise some money for charity along the way and who's

funding this thing that's one of those things you know your girl takes a trip to the UAE she comes back with a handbag you don't talk about you know you brought with you a million dollars in cash which I've never seen before I've never seen a million dollars in one place I've never even seen a million dollar check Yeah, I guess tip it out Ladies and gentlemen that is one million dollars in cash That is so ridiculous look at that that's so crazy Wow whoever is running this really trust you they should those are loose they're

like a lot of these are just kind of flying around around here you know they have way too much faith in me yeah Yeah, a lot of faith in you. I mean, this was to prove I had the idea. I was like, I'll bring a prop million dollars on Joe Rogan, but people will, I was thinking then they already don't believe I have the money. So if I pulled out a prop million and you were like, oh, that's fake money. Then I'm like, oh, my tournament's fucked. So we had to source, had to do some bad things for that.

So how's one even get a million dollars out of a bank? That's got to be a pain in the ass, right? Yeah, so my buddy that's helping me out with this basically called his bank. He said, I need a million dollars on Thursday. They said, yo, that takes two to three weeks. And he's like, get me the million on Thursday, or I'll find a bank that can.

And I mean, that put the energy in him to get it. Here we are. So what does this guy do that? He has all this loot I really don't want to say i'm going to keep it all directed at me. It's all above board legal You know what I mean, but we're sort of keeping it mysterious. I want any negative energy towards the tournament Come in my direction not the anonymous sugar daddy in the background. Okay So you you don't want to say like what the business is or does the business profit off of this at all? Does this benefit the business to do this?

I mean we're running as a nonprofit So like obviously for people that want to support the sport of jiu-jitsu like we're gonna donate Basically all the ticket sales of this event towards different charities So we really want to do this as a nonprofit because my thoughts were if jiu-jitsu doesn't make a profit We might as well make a nonprofit. Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, just jiu-jitsu make no profit Like Abu Dhabi doesn't turn a profit right that's done Primarily because of the shakes love of the sport like the yeah, it's like a passion project but I mean sort of my problem with the latest event is like we're selling so many tickets and they

Their event is in T-Mobile T-Mobile super expensive as far as I know I remember their event organizer posted the amount they paid for T-Mobile And it was basically two of these So I was just to rent out the venue just to rent out and then you were at the Thomas and Mac Yeah, so the previous event were at, they were at Thomas and Mac. So I just thought, hey, I might as well check how much Thomas and Mac cost. And it was a lot cheaper. So in my opinion, we're really doing this because the prize money has been the same for so long. A lot of events don't pay a lot of money, but

obviously ADCC is the biggest. Right. And this sells a lot of ticket sales, but really they made a lateral move in the venue that didn't really grow much in the way of seeding and none of that money really how much does Thomas and Max eat I think we'll have about 11,000 seeds for this one and T-Bumbles what 18 I think 18 yeah so not not massive difference and really 80cc prize money stayed the same so their prize money you have to win four matches to get 10k not that I'd know because I could never fucking win it but we're gonna pay we're gonna do two divisions and pay a hundred times that amount of money

to the division winners so 10k is the winner of ADCC and we're gonna pay ten thousand and one dollars to show up to our tournament ten thousand and one throw an extra dollar that's for me personally so anybody who competes gets $10,000. Really? So even if you just get smoked? Yeah, I mean I'm thinking of the other guys like me in these tournaments that don't make the final, compensate everyone, you know? Well that is nice, but ADCC has never made money, right?

So for them, raising the money would just be losing more money. Yeah, I mean, but if you could sell 11,000 seats, you know what I mean? Like if you could sell streaming rights to an event, I feel like some of that should go back towards the athletes rather than just spending it all on production. Like a lot of people talk about the cost of production. It's important to grow a sport. But I really feel like at least the athlete compensation should go up a little bit you know like in terms of ticket sales

some of that should go back towards the athletes even if the ADCC is not making any money at all but in terms of they do make money but it's where they spend it they choose to spend it on production rather than the athletes they right but it's not profitable like it's in terms of the organization itself, it's not really profitable, I don't believe. Well, I would imagine if they had chose Thomas and Mack with the streaming rights and the cost of the venue that they've spent on T-Mobile, for sure they would have made a profit off this event. You could curtail production costs down.

Like, it's not going to be that crazy if you choose the right venue. My opinion is Grappling's amazing amazing but I don't think we're ready for T-Mobile. That's a massive expensive venue. Right well the Thomas and Mack was very impressive last year. It was very impressive the the whole overall production and just the scope of it and that the amount of fans that came out to watch ADCC. It was pretty impressive. It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy.

Obviously, I've never competed in front of that many people before. It was awesome. It was awesome spectacle. That was basically my opinion is like, why are we making a lateral move in my opinion when we could still keep the same venue? So what was the idea about going head to head with ADCC? If you want to grow the sport, wouldn't it be better to do it in an alternative weekend? That way the people that compete at ADCC can also compete at your event?

Well we kind of, I mean yeah obviously athletes can't do both but in terms of for the fans, the fans will be able to go to our event Friday, Saturday, still see ADCC finals on Sunday. But in terms of doing it the same weekend, we're really trying to make a stand that the athletes can unify in this sense and we can get compensated better. Because again, none of the athletes care where we compete. You know what I mean? As the sport grows, grappling's growing. Obviously, thanks to people like you, you've blown it up. Whenever you shout us out, our followers go up. The events mean, the events are getting more eyes on it. People are more ticket sales. Like we should get at least some token gesture

of a payment increase. Well, I think the best case scenario out of this is that ADCC does ramp it up and that the sport does get more eyeballs because people are aware of this huge increase in pay. And then over, I always feel a competition is good I just don't necessarily like the idea of going head-to-head because I feel like it just kind of messes with the athletes because you know it puts them in a situation where they have to choose first of all between

ADCC and the Craig Jones Invitational and If they do that ADCC is gonna probably hold a grudge. I mean hopefully not. Well hopefully they won't but likely they will. I mean it doesn't make sense that they would. I mean if you're kind of crippling their organization by taking the elite guys and offering them potential for like how many people are gonna jump ship? Do you know? Oh I mean who have we got confirmed already? We've got Fionn Davies, past champion. The Tackett brothers were the first two. We've got Nicky Ryan.

I'm going to announce today Nicky Rod's jumping across. We've got Luke Rockhold in there. We threw him in because he's just he's honestly pretty impressive. He tapped me out in the gym. I was like, fuck it, we'll throw him in. In terms of the under, we've got Joseph Chen. So, I mean, a lot of people are going to make the move. And what's interesting to me, I can't say any names in particular, but a lot of the under we got Joseph Chen. So I mean a lot of people are going to make the move and what's interesting to me

I I can't say any names in particular, but a lot of the old legends Obviously want to be a part of this event. I think they believe they want to support the cause You know, I mean and you say make the athletes make a choice I mean really they should be able to make the choice if there's an event with such a huge amount of prize money on display You know, the argument is prestige first prize money. And my argument is the prize money is there that becomes the most prestigious event. Yeah, it does. It does ramp up the prestige. But will this happen again?

Is this a one time thing? Are you guys planning on doing multiple ones of these? Yeah, we want to do it. We don't need 80 CC every two years. So most of the time, guys have to wait every two. We want to do it every year. Well, that would be good. Then there'd be a year where that's not in competition

We don't want to just kill another organization and then I just disappear off into the sunset Maybe I sneak a couple million But we want to do it every year for sure The goal is really to raise money for charities and do some film projects around the world using jujitsu really Helping out some underprivileged kids and stuff. Well that the the whole idea of using it for charity is beautiful That's That's amazing. But is this guy willing to fork up this kind of, like, does he have a commitment to do this more than once?

I mean, basically he says, if, hey, we do a good job of this one, you can do it every year. He's super invested in Sportajujitsu, loves it. And this guy's just throwing loot away. Throwing a lot of loot away. Thank God. Thank God. That's a crazy thing to commit to, though.

I mean, even no matter how rich you are I mean because if you're giving away three million dollars in prize money, is that what it is? Oh, yes, so I mean, so how's it go? Well, we basically got a budget of three million and we decided to give two point three million of that to the athletes and The rest we're gonna spend on production. Obviously, we're gonna have sponsors come in We're gonna work with particular sponsors, but we're gonna again, again, the ticket sales, that's going to charity. We're really allowing some of the athletes to choose. Like if we have an influential grappler and stuff, we're not really trying to leverage

the money we have. We're saying, hey, if we get you on board, we're happy to donate a percentage of the ticket sales to a charity of your choice. So we give them a bit of freedom in who they want to help. Well, that's nice. And if this does go well, like what is, what's the, when you say go well, like what are the guidelines? What are we trying to achieve in terms of like going well to do this again?

I mean, based on the investment and how much money we can raise for charity is really the goal there. Like if we can sell out Thomas and Mac and we can demonstrate that we can do this in a cost effective way, we can bring in in more sponsors, definitely gonna keep doing this every year. Well, like I said, I think competition is always great and I think just more eyeballs and more people paying attention to it is great for the sport. Obviously I love jiu-jitsu and I think, you know, the athletes getting paid a million dollars to win first place is fantastic. I mean, because, you know, we both know that most athletes don't make much money

off of actual competition. The money that they do make, they usually make in seminars. Only fans. Holy, that's you. That's a lot of underwear I had to sell. Only fans and what else? I guess DVDs. I mean, that's the number one revenue source for athletes

would be instructionals. But again, that's like, you can win the biggest tournaments in the world. It doesn't necessarily translate to seminars doesn't translate to instructionals. That's the sad thing. It's like you hold certain events so high that you're like, when I win that I'm going to make it. But then there'll be some asshole like me that never won but outsells you. It doesn't make you know know I mean, it's like it's not your life's not set if you win one of these events But if you win a million as a grappler, you're pretty well set up Especially if you're like a grappler from a poorer country like a million u.s. And Brazil is gonna go a long long way and also It's it's just gonna elevate the whole profile of the sport Just people knowing that a million dollars is going towards the first place crafters And then like has UFC fight pass had a positive impact? Has that helped at all? For sure I mean obviously it helps so much like my dreams always taken on

MMA guys you know like they got the big names so obviously UFC Fight Pass helped that happen but I mean Techies put a lot of work to the Fight Pass events and those are very very popular I think that would be the pinnacle of sort of professional super fight events. And what is like like if you fight in UFC Fight Pass like what is a big payday UFC Fight Pass? I know some of the athletes might get I don't know I should say it touch you if I kill me but I mean it's broad like I could go from 10 to 6 figures really and again that's I mean that's the thing, when you compete

for an event like a tournament, you might face four guys. Like for me personally, I might face four guys that I could have made much more money facing off in a super fight setting. So really, like in terms of the investment, the commitment, the training, the time to prepare for potentially four opponents to win something like $10,000 when if I just had four superfights

Right make so much more money Obviously, I don't it wouldn't get the medal and the amount of money that you're gonna spend in camp Anyway, just with nutrition supplements steroids the damage you do to your body Everything everything you mean you're spending ten thousand dollars Anyway, your blood pressure goes up your liver values go up, you push it to the, you redline it for a thing like a ADCC. Well, that is the craziest thing about the sport is that steroids are openly tolerated. It's probably the only elite professional sport where,

particularly because of Gordon, cause Gordon's been so open about steroids that everyone knows that the athletes are on juice. Well, I'm sponsored by a local company called EverTight. This is the sad thing. I tell people, hey, I'm on TRT and I'm sponsored by them. And no one believes me. They're like, you look so out of shape, there's no way.

He's just joking. And I'm like, no, believe me. I'm taking serious. Do you lift weights? I mean, sometimes, yeah. Every now and then. Honestly, I'm the worst example of athlete ever. I don't stretch, don't do any recovery, I don't sleep. You don't stretch at all?

No. I just go easy the first round. I feel like I'm pushing on my legs. There's some hip mobility. I think if you get a bad injury, that's a sign maybe it's time to hang it up. So when you train, all you do is just jiu-jitsu? You don't like... I do a little bit of lifting, but man, I don't even track anything.

I'll just be like, oh, that seems like enough lifting for today. Really? Yeah, that's it Do you ever wonder like if you? Did like hire like a serious like strength and conditioning coach and really get after it It would make a difference in your performance Maybe but I mean like I mean if there's a million dollars on the line, maybe but That's a little but it's your whole life. I mean you like, I mean, if there's a million dollars on the line, maybe, but that's a little fucking word. But it's your whole life. I mean, you're a professional jiu-jitsu guy.

I mean, I love the technique and the strategy aspect of it, you know, like sometimes when I've lifted or taken more stairs than usual, it's like I'm starting to overly rely on my strength. I love what I love about jiu-jitsu is laying traps, tricking people, making people feel silly. That's the part I like. Right. Rather than just, I want to look jacked just for me,

not for the match. But don't you think even with the laying traps and just overall your ability to move would be enhanced? It's true, but if I mean, if I look too jacked, no one will buy the instructionals. They'll be like, I can't fucking do what that guy does. You know? I've gotta look like a weathered old man out there.

Wow, that's a crazy approach. We've got another announcement here today. The biggest super fight in grappling history. We signed it actually, I signed this maybe an hour and a half ago. So I got the contract data. Yeah, busted out. Uh oh.

The biggest super fight in grappling history? Really? Yeah, it might be one of the biggest events in sporting history. What is the biggest so far? So far? It's probably Gordon and Galvao. Yeah, Gordon and Galvao, Hodja Bichesha. But now we're talking the most decorated female athlete of all time, Gabby Garcia, has put pen to paper to face me On my own event. So we're talking 10 11 time world champion four time ADCC champion

You have been joking around about this forever. This is actually gonna happen a hundred percent gonna happen We booked it. We signed this contract earlier. So like I mean it I had to do a lot of things to get it done You know, what'd you ever do? I had to talk to Gabby a lot. I Had to go over there give her a back rub. You have to dance with her I mean it's getting this done like she's like Harvey Weinstein producer, you know But I'll do it for the fans, but we got that booked. So I mean she's that's really gonna happen. Yeah, she's six four 250 pounds. I don't know. I don't know she ways. Yeah, so I'll take her on. Wow. I feel good I probably won't train for I'll be playing in the STEM events. Hey, you won't train. I wouldn't train that hard

I'm happy she's doing it. That like oh, it took a long time. We've been talking about this for two and a half years Feels like arranged marriage or something. I know I was always thinking that it was just a joke I know we're gonna get we're gonna get rid of the sexual tension somehow you know. So we're gonna throw it down. There's one way. Yeah. I mean that's in the contract if I lose I have to do some things. Oh no. Maybe sell that on our only fans but. Good luck. Good luck. So when this all goes down are you gonna stream it live and how are you gonna do that? Free on YouTube. Really? Yeah we want to put it free on YouTube because we like this all goes down, are you gonna stream it live and how are you gonna do that? Free on YouTube.

Really? Yeah, we wanna put it free on YouTube. Because everything I wanna do about this event is to grow the sport. So Jiu-Jitsu scoring's confusing. It's hard to keep up. Some events don't even know their own scoring. And to be honest, I compete in events

where I don't even know the rules. I'm just hoping for the best. But this one we're gonna do for the lead-up matches the non finals qualifying matches Three by five minute rounds and we're gonna have the judges score according to your traditional judo So, you know, like you get a good position It might be a if there's a four-point discrepancy something like that Are you using a specific rule set or you guys making your own making our own one? We want to make it make it our own completely. So we want to take what you did you guys already know?

So we'll have three judges use some sort of pre-existing point system they understand, but we'll have the judges translate into a 10 point mass system so that MMA fans will understand. So say if there's a after round one, the guy finishes on the other guy's back, the ref stops, we get up, we have a minute break. That's a's a strong position will score that at 10 8th and we'll do open scoring So jujitsu guys are used to knowing the score as the match progresses They don't like the surprises like MMA surprise at the end and you get to guys. They don't want things to be too different So we're basically keeping it very similar to what they already understand While trying to introduce it in a way that's friendly to fans that you

knew because fans are tuning below what the fuck's happening and he won the round tonight I wish that MMA had open scoring because it would expose a lot of really bad scoring you know where you're at yeah because there's so many times where it's just not and the argument against it I think is silly because the argument against it is that the person would coast if they were ahead but my argument against it is that the person would coast If they were ahead, but my feeling is that would make the person who's behind really get after it because they know they're behind You know and then in fights where you know a guy's ahead and the guys getting tooled up. That's already the case There's no you know if like if

Like Adesanya is fighting somebody and he's just dominating the fight. We all know that We all know that and the only thing that could fuck him is a bad judge some crazy. Yeah, and and we've seen that We've seen like two scores that are like that's right And then one score one judge is like what the fuck was that guy watching? That's the guy we're gonna hire for our van That guy's gonna be cheap why that guy's gonna be cheap. Why? That guy's gonna be dangerous. Why 10.8? I don't even like 10.8 for MMA. I think it sucks. I mean just for a way that we can grow, like we can have an easy to digest. I mean I guess MMA is still pretty confusing but we want MMA fans, we want to steal MMA fans. That's my whole strategy is I'll take on guys in the UFC because I know that

drug test it and I'm not and I'll be on guys in the UFC because I know they're drug tested and I'm not, and I'll be like, and they're famous. It's like a perfect matchup. But we want to do that because we want to steal their fans. And we're also changing, and it's very fucking expensive, actually, every Jiu Jitsu event is basically on an elevated stage or just on mats. And we have this problem where there's all these weird resets.

Guys might fall off the stage. They crash into the table. That's crazy. So inspired by karate combat We're gonna do a Rectangular mat space with that angled wall because there's no there's nowhere to run and we're gonna call this Rectangular mat space the alley you basically only had to back alley to fight or fuck sometimes But isn't the angled wall a bit of a problem? I saw your match with Phil bro

Yeah, and the angled wall like all sudden he's fucked cuz you're just gonna go down like it's not like a wall Like a wall. I don't like the cage and MMA. I've said multiple times I really think they should be fighting in a basketball court. Just make it all matted up have a long Red line we're gonna be big 30 by 40. It's gonna be massive that is big Yeah, so we heard the basketball court, but we threw some angles on the end well punishes them we want to punish guys for backing up okay so like again like you said with a cage they back up but they remain vertical and guys are so like you can use that angle to not get taken down but if you back up if you're running

away we want it to be detrimental to you well not having any referee interruption so if I'm if I'm like you said I see I won the first round 10-8 I'm coasting We want it to be detrimental to you while not having any referee interruption. So if I'm, if I'm like you said, I see, I won the first round, 10, eight, I'm coasting, I'm backing up that guy can chase me and there's nowhere I can go. And if I back up, it's detrimental to me. I want to ask you a specific question about the Phillip Roe fight because he posted his arm down to like against the, the angle. And I was like, well, you're kind of fucked if you're doing that and then you threw up the triangle and you trapped him yeah but like did you train

for that like so this is this this is the setup and this is in karate combat which is by the way in Austin this Thursday I'm gonna go down and check that out so like this like when he posted his arm down I'm like oh no that's honestly here's the funny thing about it is as in the promoter said to me goes bro. We've got to sell the angled wall for grappling He's like, can you try to submit him off the wall? And I was like fuck you. I'll do that I was like I got no plans of they asked you to do it Oh, they said they said that'd be cool if he could do it and then afterwards he's like, did you plan that? I was like, yeah, sure

But I mean anytime someone posts a hand on the ground Yeah, we have an overhook and we can put weight on that hand, they can't lift it off the ground, so we can shoot a triangle pretty easy. So as soon as I saw him, I've got an overhook here, we've got the Russian tire. As soon as I see him put that right hand on the floor, I was like, we can do something flying.

And I saw, because of the angle, you can be a bit more brave, you know? Like, it's not a sharper fall. Like, I'm 32, I probably shouldn't be doing flying shit, but you throw an angle in there. I'll give it a crack Well, especially with everything padded up like that on the walls Yeah, but man me and Phil were laughing before this match like we would Joe I had a couple beers before this I thought we're just gonna have a good time You had a couple beers before the man who said he was gonna drink a tequila shot to sell the match

But then I saw him put water in his cup. I was like I've been misled here And then I we went out there and his I didn't even know the to start the match, but then I saw him put water in his cup. I was like, I've been misled here. And then we went out there and his, I didn't even know the time of the match. There was eight minutes and the guys, I got 12 minute match. I'm like, oh fuck. And then his coach started cornering him serious. So I was like, what have I got myself into? So I was like, better give it a try. I thought we're going to have fun, play around a bit, but he was, he was ready to go. You really had a couple of beers? Yeah, I do do sometimes, you know. Do you really? Take the edge off, yeah. Does it fuck with your performance at all? You know what?

I never know what helps my performance or makes it worse. You know, I never have like... Taking the edge off might help. I think so because I do a long training camp. Sometimes I'm like thinking every day putting pressure on myself. But like, I finished that match and because I hit a flying thing, we just got hammered that night. I was celebrating and then the next day I was like, fuck, I have to face Lovato next week. I was like, and because I hit a flying thing, we just got hammered that night.

I was celebrating. Then the next day I was like, I have to face Lovato next week. I was like, what have I done? So it's like sometimes I guess the John Jones approach, you know, having some fun the week before takes the edge off, relaxes me. Ilya Tuporiya does that too. He gets drunk on Thursday night when he weighs in on Friday. I don't like what he did to my man, but I respect the drinking of the wine for sure.

Yeah. That fight, I wanted to talk to you about that too. I wanted to talk to you about just the Volkanovsky fight and training him in general. Like, did you try in any way to discourage him from taking the Markitchev fight on 10 Days' Notice? No, I mean, I'm not involved in that process at all. You know, like, I got the call that

it was happening, like he called me, I mean I was jet-lacked at the time, I'd just gotten to Austin for a day and I get a call at 4am from Vox, he's like, I think I have Makachev booked in two weeks, and I was like, fuck it, tell me I'll just book the next flight, I just got on the plane down there, so I'm not involved in the matchmaking decision process at all. Were you apprehensive about him taking that fight on such short notice? I mean, I wouldn't say apprehensive. I like believe in him fully.

I knew it would be a very difficult challenge. I didn't know what sort of shape he was in at the time. I didn't see him for a while, but like I believe in him that he can do it. And it's like I'm going to just do everything I can to get him ready for that moment and yeah I mean it is the risk of the game you know especially you take a short notice fight like that. Had he been training at all? I honestly don't know I don't think he like he wasn't in the same shape he was for the previous Makachev fight. The previous Makachev fight I was down in Wollongong with his team freestyle for

like six to eight weeks helping him prepare for that one. But I mean, this one, yes, such short notice. Well, that made it such a huge difference that the six to eight weeks, just the fact that he was able to survive on the ground the way he was. And not just that, but just not just survive, but be completely safe. He was never even close to being threatened with a submission, you know, and the fact that he was like laughing it off and punching them from behind And it's crazy. Yeah, I mean I can't take too much credit for that. The guy just is an animal Yeah, he's just a monster so hard to hold down even for me to hold down. I don't get it

I'm like fuck you 145. This shouldn't be the case rugby. Yes some rugby energy Well, also he used to weigh 214 pounds and you still got those fucking tendons from being a big gorilla. That's true Yeah, the rugby days. That's crazy I mean I trained when I trained at his gym one of the rugby players come in actually and I was just fucking around Rolling with him and he put me in a chin strap and I was stuck. I was like fuck Thank God these guys make real money in other sports. I have to deal with this shit. Yeah, that's a hard fucking sport, man It's a hard sport that Americans don't necessarily appreciate They don't understand like those are guys that could compete in the NFL

And they said they're playing rugby because they live in a different country But it's when Volkanovsky fought the first time and he was perfectly prepared. It was an amazing fight I thought he won. I thought it was very close, but I thought he won I gave that I think round two was the difference and I could see round two going either way, but I gave it was very close, but I thought he won. I gave, I think round two was the difference, and I could see round two going either way, but I gave it to Volk. But I was like, when they announced it, the rematch, part of me was like, ooh, that's a great fight. But the other part of me was like, eee,

this is the number one, in my opinion, this is the fight for number one pound for pound, right? I believe Volk won the first fight, although very close. I don't think it was a robbery, but very close. And I think that puts him as the number one pound for pound fighter in the world. And then he loses the fight to Islam. He gets caught with that head kick, and then he gets knocked out by Taporia. Now he's not even in the conversation anymore.

So this is a short amount of time, you know, and then everything kind of falls apart. And I think it wouldn't have fallen apart if not for the rematch. It wasn't for the rematch. If he just waited for Turpuria, I think, I kind of think that head kick has a factor. I mean, to get brained like that with a shin to the dome, which is the worst way to get knocked out, you know, it's so much power in legs. I mean, your legs are legs are you're carrying your legs are carrying your body around all day I don't think people that have never been kicked understand how much more power is in a leg yeah I wouldn't know you get head kicked like that and then you fight the guy who's obviously the most dangerous boxer in the division in the next fight

and get KO'd I mean yeah it's crazy I don't know the if I've had a couple concussions from grappling like accidents but I don't knees and headbutts clashes. Always that one asshole you know going crazy but I don't know really the effects of that it's so hard to judge like it's like I don't know what testing they can do but it's like a they can't do much unfortunately they do there there are some tests, but the reality is every time you get knocked out, it's easier for that person to get knocked out again and psychology. I think for the opponents, like for me, coaching folks, like there were matches

where like, even with the fights when like, say, we'll take out him in the sub. And it's like, when he keeps doing these impossible things, you believe in the myth of your guy more and more. What other fighters do too. They go, oh, we couldn't submit him. Look how deep or tight his heart is. His heart is just unstoppable. But I think when a guy gets clipped like that, everyone else goes, they suddenly have a bit

more self belief. So I think yes, it's like two, two factors. Yeah, I think you're probably right. But I think Toporia thought he was going to do that to him anyway. But I would just love to have seen him fully recover from that. Like when Manny Pacquiao got knocked out by Marquez, Freddie Roach wouldn't let him do anything for a year. He's like, you're going to take one year off. He's like, this is the only way you have to. And Freddie Roach, who has trauma induced Parkinson's from his boxing career. He's well aware of the impact of brain damage.

And you know it's it's so tricky because I'm just such a huge Vulk fan. I just look, I wish I had his ear. I don't know if you would have listened to me but if I had his ear. I think that's what makes those guys special though is that they don't they're like it's the self-belief. 100% that's what makes you a champion. You cannot become a Volkanovsky without this unstoppable belief in yourself. Me and him are the complete opposite. Hey, if someone was like, bro, you're probably gonna lose.

I'm like, yeah, you make a good point. I'm like, how much are they paying me? You know, we're complete opposite. He takes everything super serious, sporting everything. I don't know how we've blended together. I'm able to coach him somehow. Well, you're very technical. I mean, the thing about your, you know, joking around and being silly about it all is like

you are, but your technique is very, very good, obviously. You are obviously are one of the elite guys in the world when it comes to technique. So it's not you are serious. Yeah, I mean, personality type, you know, yeah, but I guess we have the Australian Australian bond He has faith in me more faith in me than the guy that gave me this I think They both probably shouldn't know what is a ball cup to know do you talk to him Thailand training at bangtow with his Folks wrestling coach Frank Hickman. They have a gym in Thailand. So he's out in bangtow against him working I want to get him a grappling match. I said to him

I said man like if we're gonna take some time away because the con. I wanna get him a grappling match. I said to him, I said, man, like, if we're gonna take some time away because of the concussions, let's get you a grappling match. And my thought was, how like cool would it be to see him and Ortega have a grappling match? Oh my God, that'd be incredible.

I would just love to see it in that setting because Ortega obviously struggled to submit him in MMA. Let's see what happens in a grappling match. Right, with no gloves too. Yeah, that would be very interesting. Ortega's very good on the ground. He with no gloves too. Yeah, that would be very interesting or take was very good on the ground He's very sneaky too Yes, yeah, he's super slick he pulled he catches some crazy shit out there

He was in a fight like two three rounds get one look at a guillotine. It's crazy No, and his guillotine is fucking deaf I mean when Volkonovsky got out of that the mountain guillotine his face looked like a grape and just would not tap I had no idea how he got out, but I told everyone I was like yeah, obviously that's me by the DVD Support is gathering coach. I take credit for that. He's an animal 99.9 percent of the world would have tapped. He's like that in the gym I remember I'll choke him in the gym sometimes and he'll go from putting his chin in To taking it out

as your grips in there like you try and switch it from like, I guess like the front choke to the to the blood vessels, he just changes how you choke him and can survive down there. Wow. I don't know how he does it. He should teach me that shit. I think it's just his brain. Yeah, too tough. Yeah, he's a fucking animal.

And so does he have a plan to come back? Does he? I don't I don't know what's going on. I imagine it's probably Holloway versus Toporia. I think that's going to happen. And then I hope personally, we get Vox a grappling match. Maybe we get him at this event. I'm hoping we get him. We get some MMA guys at this event. Is he thinking about doing something like that? He has a whole lot of time, right? When is this?

This is August 16th, 17th. Yes, not much much time, but I mean if he's in shape he's training He's out bang town Thailand get some rounds in I think it's fine, especially against another MMA guy They both have the same type of training. You know it's not like he's taking on a pure grappler That's only grappling so do you have a budget to do something like that to do superfights as well Actually, yeah So we're gonna start taking sponsors to try and get more superfights as well? Actually, yeah. So we're going to start taking sponsors to try and get more superfights. And I'm in talks with some legends of the game right now, like some guys that you'd be shocked.

Can you say names? I wouldn't say any names, but potentially, I'll tell you. Can you keep the names rhyme? One of them has a Mexican-sounded last name, but I'll talk to you about that after. OK. I know that one. Yeah.

All the legends, they want to, so many people want to come out of retirement for this. I think they just know, like, especially when I explained the rules, explain that it's in that alley, like the sunken floor, you know, they liked that format. Obviously you throw a million dollars in Instagram, you get some messages, you know what I mean? You get some, uh, Hey brother, what's going on? You know?

Yeah. I think people are going to be shocked at how good Luke Rockhold is. Yeah he man he's so tough. He's very good on the ground I remember when he got Weidman down and mounted him and Weidman could not get up I was like this is his ground game is very underrated and because he's just known as an MMA guy. He's gonna come train with us he's gonna going to come to B team for five weeks. So he's going to prepare with us for this event. So we'll watch him and Nikki road kill each other every day. I'll love to watch that shit. Wow.

Yeah. Um, I always wondered how he would have done if he had gone straight grappling. Cause the people that I know that train with them said, dude, I think he could have competed with the best in the world as a grappler, just as a pure grappler. Yeah. I mean, he, look at the guys he's training with, Khabib and Islam, Cain Velasquez, like DC, all those guys. It's like, people think it's like, I'm amazed in isolation.

Like those skills won't translate. They translate, especially with athletes like that. Especially in such a grappling dominated camp. He's going to surprise some people. What I keep laughing about is like, it's a million dollars for first place, 10,000 for second place. I'm like, who's tapping? Right. For a million dollars. Yeah. 10,000 for second place I'm like who's tapping right for a million dollars yeah I think what we're going to do I haven't finalized this yet

but I think if you're in a submission and the round ends we keep going get out of the submission well there's been so many times where guys were almost submitted where you you think yeah this guy I let him out of that arm bar to join the team you Look at that one. I didn't get any money out of that. How bad was his arm fucked up after that? That arm bar was so tight. Well, that was the funny thing, right? And that was EBI. What's the prize of EBI?

Well, he had had some, if I had submitted him, I would have won 15K. And I think he had only had two submissions in regulation. So he was, he only made 10K. So I'm like, we could have made a business deal there for everybody. Just let it go. But man, I, I, his arm popped on the day. He said it was fine. Next week I show up. We both competing in another event again. And there was like three, four locker rooms and I would just travel by myself.

I wouldn't even have a coach. I just posted an Instagram story. Who can corner me for this event? Like the one against Gordon, I had Denny broker boss and he was saying 10th planet stuff to me and I didn't even know what language he was speaking in the corner. That was right. So I was confused control. Yeah. He's saying do these things.

I'm like, what's happening, bro? And then I shot to this next event. Yeah. Cause I grappling in New York and of all the locker rooms, they throw me in there with the Dano guys and I'm just like, this is a bit weird. Like I had this guy on by last week. Then he choked me and now it's just me in a locker room with him.

It was very awkward, but then broke the ice and I came into training the next week. And you were with them for a long time. You were with them for like what, five years? With Danaher? Two years. Two years. So did it start before Puerto Rico? Yes.

Yeah, I lived in New York for, oh, I mean, man, my memory's hazy. But we did Puerto we survived Puerto Rico for six months. And before that was I would come and go from New York. I was probably with a team two and a half years. But yeah, things get weird out there in the jungle, you know? Yeah, but it's now style. Well, everyone's confused as to what happened with you guys. That's what Well, everyone's confused as to what happened with you guys. That's what, like, there's no real version of the truth. We got a book deal. We got a movie deal coming out.

You know, I'm going to exploit that story to the bitter end. You have a book deal for real? No, I'm joking. But I could. The story's weird enough, you know. What happened with you guys? I mean, there's so many things we really can't discuss, you know. A lot of problems, obviously, a lot of problems.

Obviously Two Brothers split up was going to be some serious issues there. But yeah, it's not really my place to say, but hopefully one day it comes out. I think it'll be an interesting story. Who knows, this shit might kick things off. It might be World War 3 again. So when you left, did you leave to start your own place when you guys started B-Team? Was that the plan all along? No, I honestly never even wanted to start a gym. I'd already told the guys like at Dana-Hurst that I was

like hey I'm gonna this would be my last ADCC and then I just want to travel around see the world visit interesting destinations teach seminars like I felt like I'd already built a brand but then when the team split I felt like I sort of wanted to help them kickstart something. So we came here, we started the B-Team. I've been with the B-Team, we've had the B-Team two, three years, but I'm not there too much anymore, you know? I helped Kickstarter, we got the gym, the guys have it, you know? So like, I like traveling around. So are you basically semi-retired? For sure, yeah, for sure.

I mean, obviously when you put on like, if you put on an event that pisses off every other promotion in the sport, it's going to probably be hard to get matches in the future. So I'll probably compete for my own show and that's it. That's the plan we want to keep doing these shows. Well, I think you're going to piss off ADCC for sure by going head to head with them, but I don't think it would piss off FightPass or... Now FightPass is pretty lovely.... Who's number one or do you think? Well, I mean, if whoever's streaming ADCC is obviously not going to be happy, it's more

competition. But again, I still think long term, this story is going to grow the sport. It's an interesting story. It's fun. Let's see. Let's see what happens. It will either be the best event ever or the Fire Festival. I'm hoping for the former. Let's see. Let's see what happens. It will either be the best event ever or the fire festival. I'm hoping for the former

festival. Are you are you besides the Gabby Garcia thing, which is, you know, no disrespect kind of a gimmick fight. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Are you done competing? I'll probably do another match. That's Gabby. Gabby will be one day. If someone's down, I'll do a match on the other day as well. We'll see. But I also want to leave it open because I am talking to some crazy big names

and I'm like, man, if we can put that together, like I'm going to try and save some space. But like, obviously I have to run this thing. I wish you could tell me some of those names on the air. It's everyone you could possibly think of. I'll tell you after. There's a potential matchup that I'm working on. That's insane. It'd be the craziest shit ever. Really? Crazy yeah. You want to tell me now and we'll cut it out? Yeah can we do that? Yeah yeah. I'm working on- Holy shit. Sorry folks you can't know. Damn that would be insane. That would be insane. Wow. Is the former, is he training? Training, yep. People have said, man, he feels good. It'd be like, obviously, crazy inspirational story. I'd love it.

Wow. Yeah. That's insane. It's insane to, you know, and then it's like Abu Dhabi, for a lot of people, is the Olympics of grappling. And one of the things is it's every two years. I mean, I remember when John Jock won Abu Dhabi, you know, I had just started. I think this was like, what year was this when he started training, when he fought in Abu Dhabi early 2000s, mid 2000s. Yeah. I was thinking I was like a blue belt at the time.

And when John Jock went over there, we were just so proud that he went over there. He had this advantage over a lot of the gi guys in that he only has one hand. And so he never relied on grabbing collars. Everything was over hooks and under hooks. And he had sort of already developed a no gi game that he was applying to the gi. Obviously, he could do all the gi techniques as well, but he was more of a no-gi guy in the beginning. And it was so interesting watching that style, you know, watching no-gi, which is if Abu Dhabi didn't do that and if they didn't have this prestigious event and make it no-gi, I think the sport

would have really struggled because it's so hard for people to Appreciate what's going on with the ghee. It's very slow. And when you see a guy getting choked by a collar, it's just it looks silly Yeah, but yeah, I mean, I'm so happy Abu Dhabi exists. I think the inspiration for me to do ADCC was Stuart Cooper's highlight rules. Mmm. I was coming up, like 2009, 2011, CM Browley, Andre Galvao's runs, like that inspired me. Losing in the game more than Nogi also inspired me to chase the Nogi dreams. But like I'm following in Eddie Bravo's footsteps. You know, we both did ADCC couldn't win it.

We have our own invitational. But yeah, I'm thankful for everything they've done. I still obviously love ADCC. I wouldn't have a career as big as it is without ADCC. But do you feel any loyalty to ADCC? Like you're kind of fucking them, right? I mean, I feel loyalty to the athletes. I think like for what we do and how much, how much bigger the sport is now, we should be compensated better, you know, like, and that's sort of why I've taken a massive risk in doing this.

I appreciate what you're saying, but if ADC is not turning a profit, like the idea of compensating the athletes more I mean they have essentially made stars out of so many of these athletes and by because of that by the fact of that they've profited. But therein lies the argument and the argument is that I believe an event of that magnitude should turn a profit I'm gonna do it myself and see. Obviously I could be wrong, but based on the production and the things we've paid for thus far, I don't see how you couldn't run it in a profitable way. Obviously we're giving away a hundred times as much for two divisions.

But man, like if they had even upped it to 20k, you know what I mean? Let's some token gesture. Like if we're going from a basketball court with a hundred people in there to selling out T-Mobile, like there should, like if there's room for a fireworks show, if there's room for drummers, I feel like there should be some room in the budget for the athlete pay to increase. No, that's a good argument argument and hopefully by forcing by this you guys will like inspire them. And the argument is about making stars like it's true it's true obviously get a huge platform but you could win and not

become a star you know I know plenty of guys well not plenty of guys but I know a few people that have won ADCC but really like no one knows who they are yeah that's crazy for me is I'll go to a seminar and it'll sell out just because of just fucking gay jokes and stupid jokes all the time, you know? And I'll see real champions that can't sell out a seminar. So if we can make an event that those champions can make some real money in, I'd be super happy. Well, I think you're also your popularity has increased because people know that you

coach Volkonovsky and you've worked with MMA athletes before. Do you plan on still doing that? For sure. Yeah, for sure. Love Volkonovsky. Always be there for him anytime. I mean, obviously MMA has got a lot of crazy individuals in there, but like to give up the time to work with the correct athletes, I will always have time for some of the real good guys out there. Like obviously Izzy. Awesome. I'd always make time for Izzy the real good guys out there like obviously Izzy awesome I'd always make time for Izzy Jack Della from Perth like guys like that just super cool guys I'd always find time to help him. Yeah, Jack Della. What a big win. He got over Gilbert. I still moves off him

I remember when he went to the contender series He hit her like a monkey Kumi reversal in the first round of the contender series fight And I was blown away by scrapping and I've been watching it since and he's reversed with Gilbert Burns. It's crazy. Yeah, very crazy. I've trained with him and I'm just like I still moves from him. Like he's man he's so good at grappling. Yeah he's very good at striking too. He's in my opinion he's like one of the best in the sport at mixing up shots from the body to the head because so many fighters for whatever reason are head hunters you know and because you can knock a guy out with one

shot but Jack is so good at mixing shots up to the body and to the head I mean he just breaks guys down. Yeah it's a scary guy I was lucky actually because before the toporio fire we're able to sort of link up so it was like he came out to Willem Gang and trained Iz came out at the same time so I got to watch Jack Deller and Izzy mix it up and then them train with folks and for me even as an MMA fan it's like I have to pinch myself sometimes and be like wow that's amazing. It's just like putting on this thing when I'm talking to these guys about super fights. It's the dream as just a grappling fan I'm just thinking oh what could we do?

Who could we convince into this event? You know, like just as from a pure fan Perspective it is pretty fun No, I'm sure it's it's gonna be interesting to see whether or not this can work Because a lot of people have like looked at the UFC model and said hey athletes should be getting paid more money And so they put on these events and none of them are profitable I mean maybe Bellator was and they sold Bellator and then there's the PFL I don't know how they do financially, and they sold Bellator, and then there's the PFL. I don't know how they do financially, but they have the same sort of similar thing.

They have a tournament, the end of the tournament, the guy wins a million dollars. But my point is, right, is like, if you're an Olympic champion, or if you're a UFC champion, it has so much prestige that every single person in the world knows what it is. It has this intrinsic value. Yeah.

If you say you're an IBGJF champion or an ADCC champion, a very small percentage of population know that. So it's like, that's case in point, we put on a tournament with much more money, everyone jumps ships because they know that's money. Whereas like obviously Olympic gold medal, that's timeless. That's crosses all sports, you know, that crosses into the culture.

How many guys are jumping ship? I mean, I'll tell you afterwards, but. So is it public that they're jumping ship or are they not talking about it? Well, we've got 16 sports spots in under and over, and I'm navigating through who wants to be in there, you know, 16 spots each so 32 total So I'm trying to navigate to the best guys we can get and it's like everyone wants in, you know Really? So no one's worried about the repercussions of the blowback from ADCC

No, cuz I think they see it as well. I could get the money to show Like I mean say so the Tackett brothers local Texas guys some of the nicest kids ever, you know And they were the first ones to reach out to me. Like I mean, so the Tackett brothers, local Texas guys, some of the nicest kids ever, you know, and they were the first ones to reach out to me. They won the trials. It's been, ADCC has been their dream their entire life. And they just hit me up because no one believes anything I say, unfortunately. It's like you make too many jokes. Everyone's like, he's full of shit. But these guys were like, man, is this real? And I was like, yeah, it's real. And they're like, well, even if I have to deal with the consequences, even if I have to go back and win the trials to qualify again, I want a shot at a it's real. And they're like, well, even if I have to deal with the consequences, even if I have to go back and win the trials to qualify again, I want to show that a million to take.

And they're not even talking about themselves. I want to take care of my family. And I'm like, wow, that's, that's a super cool motivation to do this. They're willing to risk it because they'll fight their way back in. Well, I hope there's no repercussions. I hope I don't think that will be. Well, we'll see. Right.

But I think best case scenario is that ADCC recognizes that there's competition and they have to raise up the amount of money to get the athletes and you know, maybe it'll just elevate the profile of the sport enough so that's profitable still. Yeah, it's a good experiment prestige versus... But why do it the same weekend as them? Well, you want the athletes to make a stand, you know? Are they together or, you know, what is the motivation here for these guys? Money. Money is the motivation.

Money is the shot. It's sort of making a stand, but it's making a stand that money is more important in this organization that's propped up the sport for 20 plus years. Well there's other athletes that say a million dollars easy to make. That guy over there? Yeah, you win there. It's easy for Gordon. I mean Gordon makes a lot of money. I mean Gordon makes a lot of money from instructional. It's just from dominating for all these years. But again like a million for most guys. I mean you grow up in Brazil, you know, you like millions not easy to make by any means. Like especially like the instructional market

is predominantly English speaking people They're the ones that are gonna pay the highest price So it's like us that speak English have a huge advantage in that area I mean even me personally just for having an accent and a lot of Americans like wow, he's fucking smarter That's why we use people like you for infomercials. Yeah exactly. They take it So I mean little mop John Danner you throw a kiwi accent on it He's obviously a smart guy, but that adds points for sure. Are you still close to him? Do you talk to him?

No, we don't talk. So he's upset at this? I don't know. I've run into him a few times. We shake hands, but you know, he's general to me. You know, you don't really know. Like, you know, yeah, I look back when we walk past, there's no knife coming. But I helped him hide a few bodies in New York you

know some missing women but we had a tight bond. He's a unique character I mean he seems like a guy from a fucking movie like he doesn't even seem like a real guy you know some professor of philosophy at Columbia who becomes obsessed with jiu-jitsu sleeps on the mats teaches everybody and forces everybody to train 365 days a year. Yeah, that's an interesting fellow, yeah. What was it like doing that, like the 365 days a year? I mean, I wouldn't do it. You know, I would be like,

bro, we're taking a day off, you know? Let me have a day to relax. I wouldn't necessarily do it. I mean, it was a lot of training though. He can't like, he wanted it to be your life, you know, like, and obviously it should be, but a lot of pressure, a lot of pressure to be a part of that team.

Did you talk to him about the philosophy behind those decisions? I mean, we had a lot of discussions. I think like we were actually really close because I'm from, like he's New Zealand, I'm Australian, I'm from his part of the world. So a lot of the time Australians visit, he actually has a tight connection with them because we have a lot of things we can relate on.

So we, I mean, we talk all the time. I pray, unfortunately, probably me and Nikki Ryan were two of the ones he was closest to before the team split. And when you guys were training there, I mean, how beneficial is it having a guy like him around? Super beneficial. And also not just because of who he is and how smart he is, but like he basically approached it like an MMA coach, you know, like MMA coach is always watching, is always guiding your training. Most jiu jitsu coaches are participating. They teach you a few moves, they roll with everyone. Right. So to have a guy that approaches it like an MMA coach where he approaches it with that level of professionalism, watching, making adjustments, I think even something as simple

as that is a huge benefit. Yeah, I think so too. Also a guy who's physically impaired, where he can't compete, but he has so much passion for it that he pours it all into the athletes. Yeah, and I think what made him so brilliant as well is obviously his college and university, he knows how to study. He knows how to take notes on everything. He knows how to teach.

You put him in Hensel Gracie's in New York for 20 years when it was the hub of MMA and grappling guys like Hodger Gracie are passing through all the time. He's basically in this position where he can just watch, train with all these guys, pick up all these details and have it locked and loaded, ready to teach in a perfect way. Like obviously his game's heavily inspired by Marcelo Garcia, you know, like he just takes the really useful things and can articulate it in a way that's better than most of the people in the sport before him.

So I think there's all these factors that have made him who he is and why he's so successful. How much of a factor is this, the constant training, the training of 365 days a year? How do you balance the burnout with the discipline? How do you, because I think inspiration is almost enthusiasm and inspiration are almost I think disciplines more important for sure but there are factors that can't be ignored because when an athlete loses inspiration and loses enthusiasm they just don't have the mental drive to push through like very difficult situations. You know what I'm saying?

Like you just lose the steam, you lose the engine. I mean, I don't think you should do 365 a year, you know? Like I think you should peak for events, have a period of time afterwards where you slow down. And then when you're not preparing for an event, you're studying technique. When you get closer to an event, you're refining those particular techniques and skills for that particular event's rule set or opponent or whatever.

And we should go up and down and like, I like it when you have an event, whether you win or lose, you don't train too much after and you have this period where you miss training and you're pulled back into it. So I do, and I think, I mean, even like, obviously Gordon's had four breaks with health issues, but like, as long as I've known him and we trained together, like there would be time periods where he would, wouldn't be at training for a week or two. You know? So it's like, I think it's like a, a myth we should all strive for, but everyone

should be entitled to some time off. Did you ever talk to John about that? I mean, I would just take a day off every week but luckily like I think he had some love for the Australians let me get away with some things he wouldn't let other people do. So I mean I would be chilling you know. Does he enforce that like the 365 days a week? I don't know if there's a real strong enforcement but there's like an unspoken you better be there you know like but I know who knows what it's like now. Obviously he's moved to Austin.

My memory is probably fazy, pretty forgot some things, but yeah, obviously I'm super appreciative that I had, I was a part of that team, but I mean, I was with like Loughlin, I'm lucky. I moved to Melbourne, it was with Loughlin Giles for a few years. They had a massive splash at ADCC 2019. And then I was with John. So like I've been around some good coaches, you know? So I think a lucky position despite coming from Australia,

not as lucky as others. Like it would have been amazing to be like a Nicky Ryan born right next to New York and got to train with someone. All the people in that team have that coaches. But again, like we're all not that lucky. I didn't even train with a black belt till I was already a purple belt. So it's like we all weren't exposed. Cause I'm from Australia, didn't even train with a black belt. I was already a purple belt. So it's like we really yeah We all weren't exposed because I'm from Australia

I probably came up with a time period in my city that was more like an older time in the US where black belts were like whoa What year did you start training? Oh Probably 17 years ago now and even back then there weren't many black belts around. No when I started training I just trained with my cousin and he was like a four stripe white belt. There was like two people on the mats You know, there was nothing I trained twice a week. I didn't train properly for a long time. You trade twice a week Yeah, I was like I didn't even think I didn't even know what I was, you know, we're just just doing it for fun

Yeah, what were you doing for a living back then? I was still in high school when I first started and then I was just flipping burgers at Burger King basically then I did a psychology degree just a bachelor's some bar like I had to work jobs study and do jiu-jitsu so these are souls today they get a just train I'm so envious of them you know like it's just the sport again the sports growing that much with the sponsorship deals and stuff so so back. How did you learn technique? Man, I had Eddie like here's the funny thing I had Eddie Bravo's Master in the rubber guard book that came to me at a very influential time where I read the chapter about

Weed I was like fucking me Russian stuff smoking weed. So like I was like thinking I'm gonna learn some techniques ended up smoking weed all the time Yeah, it doesn't work for everybody it's interesting interesting the wheat thing, because some people think it makes you lazy. And I think you're just lazy. I think if you if weed makes you lazy, you're lazy. I just I don't I don't it makes me think about the consequence like the idea of paranoia like people talk about weed paranoia. I think it's like a hyper awareness. And you know, Eddie once said this to me, like if's like a hyper awareness and you know Eddie

once said this to me like if your life is shit and you smoke weed it's gonna feel terrible but if your life is great and you smoke weed you're gonna feel good like if you've got all you don't have any problems in your life you know any things you're dealing with if you've dealt with your problems and you're just like on a good path then weeds good for you but weed has never made me lazy it's the opposite I smoke weed I always feel like don't be lazy good. Good. Good things to do. You don't want these things fucking with you You don't want these things hanging over your head like that hyper awareness. It's like part of my work ethic

you know like like Oversight like someone is looking over me all the time making sure I Can't lie to myself or to other people. I have to do the things I'm actually supposed to do. That's my feeling about it. Well, I mean, I read his book and I was like 17 smoking bongs driving to training in the

car, having pre-workout, getting ready to go to war, you know? That's basically, it floats it out on me. But it was good. I think rolling high keeps you fluent. I wouldn't do it all the time. Sometimes I meet guys that are so high that I've just smashed them for a me, but it was good. I think rolling high keeps you fluent, keeps you, I wouldn't do it all the time. Sometimes I meet guys that are so high that I've just smashed them for a round, but they've done one thing,

but they're so fascinated by that, like the perception's off sometimes. I think that's possible, true. That's too, but I've always felt like I was like 10% better when I was high. I really feel like that's, there was quite a few things. You gotta try a couple beers. I'm scared. Beers don't help me. You gotta try a couple beers. I'm scared.

Beers don't help me. Like, when I play pool, if I play pool high, I play way better. If I play pool drunk, I'm not good. Oh, really? Yeah, I think with me, alcohol just makes me not pay attention to shit. Alcohol for me is like, ah, I'm not a focused person if I'm drinking. I need that for sport. That gives me a false sense of confidence.

I think that's useful. Maybe one or two beers. But drunk, have you ever competed drunk? I've felt it for sure. It's usually vodka soda or something. So if a fan sees I'm like, that's soda water, man. And you've done that many times?

Were you just to take the edge off? Five, six times. I mean, I was, I had a couple drinks before the Lovato match because we had the Howlerhead bottle back there. I was like, Hey, come on, tell us some sponsorship money, you know, get that up. But sadly not. Well, isn't Howlerhead owned by Dana? Doesn't Dana? Yeah, that was the thing. I was like, go sneak us a bottle back here, man. Put it in the vlog. sneak us a bottle back here man put in the vlog. When you were training and you were learning from books like did you have any videos that you studied? Was it like how did you learn techniques other than just books? I mean we I'm trying to remember what books I had man I had like PJ Penn's book,

Eddie Bravo's book, like the actual textbooks and then I started buying the instructionals like I had Kara Parisian judo for MMA, Ryan Hulz he was one he really changed the game with instructionals in the early days so like stealing all his moves and then I learned about the world of torrents sites and I started illegally acquiring every instruction I could and then we try to self learn on the mats studying these and then drilling the moves that's really so I was really self-taught up until purple bell really just focused on using instruction these and then drilling the moves. That's really, so I was really self-taught up until Purple Bell, really just focused on using instructionals.

And then where'd you go for Purple Bell? Then I moved to Melbourne with Lachlan Giles and basically was like two and a half years there and then two and a half years with John. That's a crazy little amount of time. Yeah, I didn't spend, that's the thing, a lot of people, obviously they just notice when you achieve something, you know what I mean?

So like I trained by myself a long time before I was able to join any big teams. What do you think attributed to your success? I think, I mean, honestly, I don't know, I put in the work in the early days for sure. And then studying, studying, studying, and then just being at the forefront of the leg lock sort of saga, you know, like I got in the right time. I saw techniques in the gear like the Birrambolo that would just, a new technique that would wipe the floor with experienced black belts. You could use it on people you had no business beating.

Those are the techniques I wanted. And I saw the Danaher guys use heel hooks and I was like, man, if I as a purple belt can submit some black belts, I'm like, that fucking that's that's the way I gotta go. And so how did you wind up training with John and the... Well I mean I would just obviously Australia's far away hard for us me to keep doing that 16-hour journey back and forth I wanted to stay in America so I just started doing my camps there that was the best place to do it it was like a hundred people in the room doing no gee obviously it had that DDS squad there that was awesome Dana her focus at that time

They really weren't too many places in the world that would take no gee as seriously as those guys How bad was the staff infections going around down there? I got staff every month every month there I remember how the fuck is that possible? I go I got it under my eye one time and the guy was the doctor was like, bro, it's right Every month, every month there. How the fuck is that possible? I got it under my eye one time and the doctor was like, bro, Vitzer, you're fucked. I was like, oh, that's reassuring, hey, thank you. But yeah, every month I was on it.

I remember I used to go, trips to Mexico to get some medicine. So I'd go down there, buy a bunch of Doxycycline, buy like 90 tablets of it. I'd just sit on it, keep taking them. Used to buy my steroids down in Mexico too. But isn't that, that's probably what fucked Gordon's stomach up. The steroids? I mean...

No, I mean the antibiotics. I don't think the steroids help. Yeah, probably a bit of everything. Who knows, yeah. The antibiotics definitely not good for you. But when you're on antibiotics, he was on antibiotics for a year straight. Which first of all is crazy because

the amount of discipline it takes to train that much while you're on antibiotics. For people who don't know, antibiotics wreck your cardio, just wreck your physical strength, wreck your vitality. I got staff once and I remember I took antibiotics and I don't think I had ever taken antibiotics before while I was training. And when I was recovering from staff, I was like is nuts I feel like I'm 50% you're at 50% like when Luke Rockhold beat Chris Weidman he was on antibiotics. I mean I've taken a lot during matches I've taken it a lot I've been on it all the time you know last few matches. It fucking wrecks you though right?

Yeah I had bad stuff in my leg like even during the that Phillip Roe match I remember I submitted him and then he had stuff a few days later I was like cut your twice mate but that was bad when the doctor had to cut that open and like squeeze it out that was horrible but I think yeah the more you take antibiotics the less effect they have on you so now I get stuff it's fucking really annoying. Do you use anything to protect your skin like do you use defense soap or anything like that? Nah, I just try to shower straight afterwards. Just regular soap?

Yeah, anything. I think we have some branded soap in there. But I think it's just important. I mean, dealing with some people that don't even have to shower. That's crazy. Yeah, some of them have a quick rinse, get out of there. I would see guys do that when they would train

and they would just go home sweaty. I'm like, you're out of your fucking mind. You're allowing that stuff to breed on your skin while you're in your car it's hot out that was Puerto Rico we had no showers at the gym oh god so we'd have a 60 minute drive home after each class without having a shower oh that's insane not good for the car fabric smell but was the Puerto Rico gym wasn't that exposed to sunlight at least wasn't the mat exposed to sunlight not enough but you know what cuz I get in the ocean every day, I think maybe

that helped. Oh that probably helps a lot. A lot of sunshine down there too. Yeah that probably helps a lot. Sunlight on the mats apparently is a great thing. Like if you could open up garage doors and have sunlight on the mats, apparently that kills a lot of things. Yeah for sure. I also think sometimes like the overtraining, like your immune system's just down because maybe you're stressed and sleeping. Yeah for sure. I also think sometimes like the over training, like your immune system's just down because maybe you're stressed or sleeping. Yeah for sure. You're really stressed about a match. A lot of people get stuff around a match because they push the training up due to the anxiety of the match. They're thinking about it messes with their sleep and then they're just vulnerable to it. When you were training did you ever monitor your heart rate, check your heart

rate in the morning, make sure you're not over training. You know, I thought about doing that stuff, the HRV stuff. You thought about it. I looked up one of the machines at the time, I was like, fuck, that's expensive, eh? I mean, now I don't monitor anything. I get my blood pressure checked, it's concerning, you know? I almost failed the last two medicals because the doctor was like, bro, your blood pressure is through the roof.

Really? I was like, pass it, man. It's digits, it's not MMA. Why would your blood pressure be so high? Good question, eh? Probably too much caffeine. You think that's it? I don't know.

We should find out, but I'm busy traveling all the time. I should look into it. You don't know what's wrong? Oh, you freaked me out. My blood pressure was high. Now you're freaking me out. We'll test it after. I mean, I just feel like...

I've got to survive for this shit. I understand, but you're relying on your body That's your business. Your business is your body and I just hope it's a faulty test, you know I'm like faulty test for blood pressure. I think those things are 100% I'm like the biceps too big, gotta figure it out. I don't think they're ever wrong with blood pressure I mean there's factors you can be stressed out that'll raise up your blood pressure I was making jokes with the doctor last time I competed in Dubai

And I was making jokes with him and he was just like not laughing at all He's like not having today the Mexican doctor for karate combat loved it, but not the Dubai guy. Oh, that's funny I faced a you know the guy in the UFC that finished Kevin Lee real quick. He not He finished Kevin Lee like with a he knocked him down guillotined him in a minute oh the last guy yeah his last fight who was that? I can't remember his last name Rinat Rinat I can't remember his name right he was crazy though man he did not want to tap I didn't bugger choke put him in a triangle he went to there it is Rinat how to say that fucker red off go for it give his middle name to Kredinov for Kredino for cred enough for cred enough his middle name stuff of them. Yeah, wow rash

Rastovic he's just like how can I fucking make Bruce buffers life difficult a yeah, bro Buffers got it rough. I got it rough on the I fuck up all the time on the Way ends when I have to do the way is do they get angry get angry with you? Does anyone get angry? No, no. Luckily, no one's gotten angry at me, but it's always a mistake. I've fucked up a few times. It's hard. Those words are hard. Sometimes your mouth just doesn't work right.

You know, it just doesn't come out right. I fucked up Umar Nurmagomedov's name once when I was after his fight. I was like, God damn it. It just came out like, mer-mer-mer-mer. I can't even say it now. It's hard. Zabit was the hardest. Magomed Sharipov. Zabit Magomed Sharipov.

That was a guy that I f*** man. I was really bummed out when he stepped out. When he just decided enough's enough. I think he's a doctor now. I think so. Find out what he's doing. Zabit Magomed Sharapov that guy was fucking good He did some cool shit. Oh, he is wild shit

He was so interesting because he was from Dagestan, but he fought like a you know like almost like a karate fighter Yeah, crazy. Yeah wild kicks man, and he could do anything. I mean crazy trips to he would do that trip Oh, yeah, he sort of made the way with that now folks does crazy trips to he would do that trip. Oh, yeah He said away with that now folks does a little guys try to do that one Yeah, he was very good at that one particular trip. He's just so clever So clever and creative and such an interesting fighter to watch I was a bummed out man like really bummed out when that guy retired Shit, that's why I

love traveling around finding these guys like these mysterious guys like I was in Japan I could have dinner with Genki Sudo I love that dude that's the coolest guy ever Genki Sudo is like a politician now and he's done it all remember when you used to carry around that flag with all the all the we're all eyes and we are all one what a beautiful guy so cool man so I'm gonna fight and then hold this up like we are all one and Flags and we are all one. What a beautiful guy. So cool man. So cool. Win a fight and then hold this up like we are all one. And then he just retired to pursue becoming a pop star and now he's a politician.

He was a pop star? Yeah, he owns restaurants. Yeah, have you seen his dancing videos? No. What's it called? I imagine a guy who fights that could probably dance like a motherfucker. Crazy dancing. Genki Pseudo 1, I forget the name of it.

Dancing montage singing is it does it all no shit wow I'm not surprised is a creative guy he was creative as a fighter too very interesting fighter to watch he retired and like he became a pop star to grow in popularity like even fighting wasn't his focus he just wanted to leverage fighting and becoming a pop star to help him get into politics to help people he into politics, to help people. He really just wants to help people. So those were side gigs to get him to where he is today, where he can use his political influence to help people in Japan.

Wow. That is amazing. Does he look at him? Is this him dancing? Oh yeah. First pitch with all these dudes behind him. Oh Terrible pitch yes after Wow That's pretty good some crazy man even back in that West Side grappling tournament He like was hitting some moves back then. Oh, yeah, man innovative today. Yeah wild explosive Interesting guy just very interesting. I mean, that's the kind of thing about the sport Oh, yeah, man. Innovative today. Yeah. Wild, explosive, interesting guy. Just very interesting. I mean, that's the kind of thing about the sport that's so cool is that you get these human beings that are just exceptional human beings that decide to challenge themselves

and one of the most difficult things a person can do. Like Volkonovsky, like he's a very interesting guy because like it takes extreme character and will and discipline to become Alexander Volkonovsky the greatest featherweight of all time. I mean it takes a lot to be that person. Yeah. And you learn a lot just by being around those people. You learn about human potential.

Yeah. I mean I even learned grappling from these guys. You know people think I show up and I'm just helping them. Like those guys are so talented like I steal shit from them as well. Just, I don't know how they do it all. Vox does it all. What have you learned from Vox? I mean, just the way, I really steal a lot from MMA fighters

and how they turtle and get up from there. A lot of grapplers don't understand that until they roll with a good MMA guy and the guy just keeps getting up. And they're like, what is happening? Like Derrick Lewis? Yeah, they just get up. He just stands up. I love that. I stole that for an instructional name just stand up and

I was like Derek Lewis inspired no you did do that right you did make a whole instructional about getting up yeah is it because some guys get just too captured with the idea of engaging and grappling and not getting out yeah well like yeah like if a guy gets his god passage you just ago would just look to get God back Where it's like sometimes it's good to expose your back and just stand up and reset Whereas like a lot of you just the guys are so scared to expose their back. Mm-hmm They refuse to ever do it. So it's like the end when an MMA guy does it they don't know how to deal with it Ah, it's good at dealing with it. It's interesting

Interesting. Yeah, cuz you don't think about it. Yeah. Well, it's always like when you have new variabilities, new variables, new variables into any sort of fighting discipline, like, oh, this is a new thing that I didn't consider. Yeah, I love that. Like, that's why I love about Jiu Jitsu. Jiu Jitsu can be more complicated. MMA is a bit more simple. So it's like we can make all these instructions in Jiu Jitsu about these weird positions like octopus, garden stuff, because you can be endlessly creative whereas in MMA the consequences are so strong, severe. Right.

It's a much simpler game. It doesn't mean it's easier. There's just less things you can do. Well that's what's interesting is that guys in MMA in general aren't as good at submissions because they have all these other disciplines to consider. It's like when I went from taekwondo to kickboxing, one of the things that I realized like, oh, when people are punching you in the face, there's a lot of stuff you can't do. But if people aren't punching you in the face, damn, you get good at kicking. And so these guys who are used to getting punched in the face, there's stuff that they're just not, they don't have the dexterity than on the Ability to do and I don't know if you develop that the saint to the same extent

Like when you see guys like Wonder Boy Who started out with with karate like that guy can do stuff with his legs that the average person can't do You know or yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Rodriguez My god that guy he's on my favorite guys to watch because his fucking kicks are crazy. They just come from everywhere. Who's he fighting next? That's a good question. Did he just fight? He just fought with so Tager is lost fun. I believe Was that his last fight? Let's say pull up Yair Rodriguez, but let's just find out what Yair Rodriguez is next fight is I don't know if they've announced it. I haven't heard anything

Yeah, it's funny when you're in the when you friends with a bunch of MMA fighters Sometimes they let you know a fight that's not been announced. You like fuck I better not say right better not drop the news get in trouble. Yeah, that happens all the time. Yeah, I fuck up a few times Does it say? nothing booked Was Ortega's last one Yeah Nothing booked. Was Ortega his last one? Yeah. So he lost to Ortega.

And before that Volkanovsky. Volkanovsky beat his ass. That was a prime Volkanovsky display. Yeah, that was crazy. That man, yeah, he just, he's just so strong. Just like- He's a mauler. Outmuscled him in the clinch. And we worked on a bunch of stuff

because of how dangerous Yaya's guard is. He's got a dangerous guard. And we had to overcome the fact that if you leave space against him, he throws elbows that cut you. So we had to navigate those areas. And really, it was good. Training Vox for a guy like Yaya is awesome, because when he's on bottom, there's

a big contingent of Mexican MMA fighters have really dangerous guards. Diego Lopez trains there. I think he's from Manaus originally, but he trains a bunch of guys there and just aggressive bottom game where if you leave space they throw elbows and if you're close they're trying to set up high guards and submissions. So it's like, we really had to prepare for how dangerous he is there. He's one of the front runners in my opinion. Diego look first of all how the fuck does that guy make 145 shredded? Yeah He's so dangerous man, you know, who do you fight super Siddique? Youssef in his last night. He stopped him in the first round went before that fight. I was telling everybody

I was like, I think this guy's the. I think he's the next guy to emerge. I wonder who he's booked against. I remember his first fight was like short notice against... Mosvar. Yeah, I thought he won. It was very close. And Mosvar is undefeated and one of the best guys in the division. But Diego's scary.

It's not just that he's good, he's fucking scary. He's intense. From everywhere, like submissions, knockouts. Submissions, knockouts, and's fucking scary. He's intense. And from everywhere, like submissions, knockouts. Submissions, knockouts, and his fucking standup is horrific. Yeah, yeah, you're right. Just climb Mount Everest. Jesus Christ, Yair. That's the most recent thing I can find out.

Fucking relax, bro. He's not tough. It doesn't even look like he's fucking wearing anything warm. He's out bird watching. Look at, he's got a fucking giant pack on walking around Rucking that's a good way to develop some cardio. I'll tell you that it looks fun But I definitely want someone else to hold the bag. Hey, no, that's how you get the cardio You have to carry the bag on your back. That's all I did

What are the guys that help you out the mountain those guys yeah the Sherpas yeah They but I think he's trying to get fit I think that's the whole idea about it It's interesting when a guy like that is just so good at one area Which is kicking and very good off his back submission, but then struggles in a couple other area like he's almost there He's like right there at the tippy top But not quite at the level of the guys that are beating him.

Just, but like remember when he lost to Frankie came back from that and just become a much better fighter, much better fighter. People counted him out a couple of times and he like almost reinvented himself, like surprised people, you know? That happened so often. Like people counted out Max Holloway, you know, Max Holloway, the last fight with Volk, Volk dominated and you know, and Max just said, the last fight with Volk, Volk dominated and, you know, and Max just said, hey, that was his night. He had a good, he had a great night.

And that is a fact of fighting too. Like sometimes a guy will clip you in the first round and you're kind of not the same and he, he, but if he didn't clip you, maybe you would have won. Like maybe, you know, maybe if you like just engaging Max Holloway, he gets caught with that jump spinning back kick to the nose at the end of the first round, shattered his nose. That's a big factor. Big factor. Doesn't land that. Who knows?

Fight was a fucking amazing fight still, even with that shattered nose. Crazy. I was watching that. I was in Dubai for karate combat and I was watching that at the breakfast buffet with all the staff at the buffet at the hotel. I was at everyone will going crazy. I put the laptop down eating omelets and we were like that's the fucking craziest fight ever. It was the craziest fight ever in the last 10

seconds when Max points to the floor a fight that he's winning four rounds to one crazy to just call the guy out. We gotta do that in jiu-jitsu like give each other a leg let's fucking go. I don't think that's the same. We just both get broken? Well that's an interesting thing about like the EBI rules. How do you like those rules? The rules where when it goes to overtime you start either on a person's back or start from what they call spiderweb was just you know psychotropic trying to get an arm. I mean I like anything creative like that that's gonna force people to train those different areas like but the majority of the sport, especially old school guys, don't like it.

It's very difficult to get them to compete under those rules. Me personally, I like any rule set I can beat a guy in. So I had Philippe Penna match and the UFC Fight Pass guys were like, Oh, what rule set should we do? And I was like, I think EBI is pretty good. But I like the rule here strategically against particular opponents But you know like I like Kyle Baym 10th planet guy one of the best overtime guys in the world Like if I had a match with you might be like, huh? We'll just do a regular rules match, you know, right So like it's it's sort of strategy-based right based on the opponent's strengths like even Nikki wrote against Gordon

Like they went to OT. Mm-hmm. And it was fucking close, you know, and it's like, that is very stressful. It's exciting, it's exciting. But if guys get submitted in those areas, sometimes people don't consider it real, even though it is, you know? They're like, oh, it's an overtime victory. You didn't really submit him, but you did.

Right, when Nicky grabbed that foot. Yeah, it just fucking ripped it, eh? I mean, how bad is his leg fucked up still? You gotta think, like, that's doing some damage. I just think, like, what was hilarious about that is, like, he was meant, Gordon's meant to face Vinny Margules, and no disrespect to Vinny, Vinny's just at a later stage of his career, right? Vinny, when he was young, was a monster. Was incredible. And then it's, like, two days before, they flipped the script and you got Nicky Rod. And you know what I mean?

And I can just picture him just getting his foot broken, being like, what the fuck? What the fuck just happened, you know? When I watched it, I was like, Jesus Christ, that is a lot of, and Nicky is such a gorilla. It was loud. Was it? So loud. It was like, you heard the snap, eh?

Sometimes though, you get popped and it's so fast that the damage is already done and you're just like, well, it's already injured, let's keep going, you know? Right. But obviously some of the submissions are holding tension points slowly breaking. But the ones that are quick, sometimes guys don't tap because it's like you didn't even have time to process it. Well, what about the one with you and Vinny where you broke his leg?

That was disgusting, yeah. That still haunts me. Hey, but yeah, I don't know why the fuck did he keep going? Why did he keep going? But that's just it. You got to be careful what shit talk you say. Like I try to be careful with what I say. I'm never going to be like leg locks don't work because like he got putting a leg lock in 20 seconds and his leg broken.

It's like now you committed to the bit, you know, like it was he saying leg locks don't work and then he's just leg exploded and I's like, now you committed to the bit, you know, like, was he saying leg locks don't work and then he's just leg exploded. And I'm like, that's such a crazy thing to say. Leg locks don't work. It's cause he had matches with Gary and Gordon and they got some pops on him, but he hadn't submitted. So maybe they laid the groundwork for me, but I think it spiral fracture of his fibula.

Oh God. Ankle. Yeah. Disturbing. Oh, that was where I was like, bro, I wouldn't let that happen for a million. I don't know how much Chael Sonnen's paying you, but it must be more than me. I just think it's his pride. You know, just didn't want to tap. But the fact that he kept going after the leg snap, that was loud. That was, yeah, that was that. that and the second one I saw the

bone poking into the skin like if I'd kept going it would have probably like his whatever bone friend yeah I was never I was like bro this guy wait for overtime like he just didn't want to tap but then the ref caught it cuz his leg was dangling I did it the first heel hook and then the second one I baited him where I pretended like I was going for his other leg So he gave me the bad one again, but he was laughing. He was like fuck. I couldn't have you broke break both my legs That's like Monty Python Oh my god, so you knew it was already broken

well here so My foot hit the ground at the exact second his leg snapped in half So for a second like I felt a little bit of crunching, but I didn't hear it. Everyone else in the room heard it. And then he gets out of it and I was just like, wow, this fucking guy's flexible, eh? And then he says to me, he goes, I think he broke my leg. Oh no, he said it in the middle of the match.

Yeah, we start talking and I'm just like, what's happening right how strange and I was like you want to keep going all right? And he gave like I ended up back with the same leg. Oh, and it was just no resistance His ankle just did a full Just kept on see if you can find that Jamie. That's this horrible. That was the one That was the most disturbing jujitsu match I've ever watched Yeah, I just I just couldn't understand like I like, bro, why are you making me do this? Yeah, Vinny, please tap. You're giving me trauma.

I remember watching it with this look on my face. Like, ugh, don't fucking. I just felt bad for him because he's a fucking good guy. And I was just like, man, did you not tap because you said leg locks don't work? Were you committed to it? It was quick, though. It was a quick break. Doesn't he still have a plate in there?

Honestly, I don't know. But he came back and competed against Mason Fowler. It was quick though. It was a quick break. Doesn't he still have a plate in there? Honestly I don't know, but he came back and competed against Mason Fowler like maybe four or five months later. That's crazy. And it's just like, you're getting some mileage on the body there bro. Yeah. Is it worth it? I mean better than the tibia I guess.

The fibula, I cracked my fibula before. It's not as bad. It's a small bone, you know, and they can just Let it fix. You know, let it heal up once they screw it together. I wouldn't let it break a bit Yeah, the noise is bad. I've broken a few legs and I'm just like well, so here it is Is this before there's the first ones of the breaks at the start of the match. So his legs are already broken here. If you go to like 20 seconds. Yeah, that right there.

So we hit like a 50, 50 in version. You hear that knee down and pulled his leg out. He's actually in a little bit deep. Oh, oh, dude. Yeah. So look at this. Oh, dude, you hear it. Oh, look at his foot. Look where his foot is.

And then he tries to get me. Oh, my. I let go of it because I was like, I do not know how he was like. He can't let his leg break and then me just out for the rubber guard. I guess we got rubber knee. He's huge here, too. That was one of Craig's best positions and he got to it with it Do the sound is so awful the sound of broken bones I've never I never get it like Chris Weidman when he fought Uriah Hall

through that like it was like full power and Uriah checked it and you see Snap you hear the snap and he sees his leg bend over like oh That's where it's like it's crazy how people react to that shit where Conor McGregor is still just talking shit That's fucking hilarious to me. I'm just like Never miss a moment. We didn't even have the pain killing whistle yet, but he was ready for Did you see him partying like a night or two ago you reckon real I mean it doesn't mean he's drinking He's vibing. He's with his wife, he's got his shirt off, looks like he's having a good time. I mean it looked like he wasn't sober, but he could just be a fucking maniac. It's mind games though maybe. It could be that. That's why I did with Lovato, I kept talking about how I was partying all the time, and I was, but I was like maybe it's gonna mess with, you know what I mean, right? Right, right. So here's Connor. He's kissing his wife. He's throwing he took his shirt off. He's getting crazy But I mean he could just be

enthusiastic It looks a little fucked up. Listen, I saw Roadhouse. He ain't that good an actor. Shane Gillis has an amazing bit about Roadhouse. You have to see it. Oh really? It's so fucking funny. He's a legend, eh? I want to get him involved in this. I want to get some comedians commentating just shit talking in the grappling world, you know? Oh, that's funny. We'd have to get guys who know some grappling.

Joey Diaz. Joey Diaz would be amazing. Surprise interviews on people. I'd be thinking be fucking oh Well he wouldn't do interviews I don't think he wouldn't be good at that but he'd be good at like commentary get him in the booth Yeah, get him talking shit. Yeah, I'll get people's names up. I'll get him to corner me against Gabby He might do it he might do it he might do it you never know I ordered Higgin in Abu Dhabi Oh, you did 2003 he didn't have anybody with him

I said Joe Hogan He said you think that just tell me when the time because like Higgin, you know had been training that much wasn't the best of shape Just let me know what time it was just yelling out what the time is Yeah, that's what I say sometimes if I don't have a like about I'm the slides. Let me know the time Yeah, let me know if you think I'm burning too much gas or I'm too relaxed you know that's that's the key here right right having Joey Diaz in your corner would be fucking hysterical Alex Jones wanted to do it but I'm like that's a tough guy to get involved with the charities our foundation with my business partner Seth our foundation school the Fair

Fight Foundation and I'm just like it's probably not good to start it with fighting a woman but it's a bold move. Well that's a fair fight though, she's so big. I mean she might outweigh you by, what do you walk around at? 205, she's got a few pounds on me for sure. At least 40. Last night we were video calling each other and we were both taking Anova and I was like, I popped a 50 and she popped a 25.

I was like you need more than that to beat me you pussy, you know, I Took some screenshots. Hey, I don't know if I release That's hilarious. Yeah, I should I should talk it to get the contract signed, you know You should have Joey Diaz do commentary for that fight That would be the perfect fight for him to do commentary for yeah, just commentate Yeah, cuz Joey because Joey does jiu-jitsu. He knows a little bit. He definitely knows positions, and he talks so much shit. He's just so hilarious. I'm going to take it serious, but I

am going to come out in a white tank top smoking a cigarette, probably. You know? I'll put it on the corner of the mat and see if I can finish her before it finishes, you know? Ah, ha, ha. Wow. Yeah, well, having something like that would definitely

be an added element of fun some fun the tournament serious obviously guys gonna be killing each other and then a bit of a bit of entertainment, you know a bit of a Battle of the sexes I guess you could say definitely that sort of a Battle of the enhanced sexes Yeah, who's more enhanced though? Yeah, she is. Yeah, for sure. I got to know her stack.

I wish what I wanted to do was run an event where we drug tested, but it was anonymous. And just for my own personal enjoyment, I want to see who took the most of anything. See if there's any Halo testing in there or something. It would be fun to see, because Jjitsu is an open steroid using event. Have you heard of the enhanced games? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I was reading about that. I'm having those guys on. So the enhanced games is this they're going to allow all the athletes to take performance enhancing drugs. And the idea is like we should have athletes perform to the best way. I mean, I'm putting words in their mouth, but that's scientifically possible. And the best way scientifically possible is like, like here's a for instance, like this Ryan Garcia fight, you know, Ryan Garcia, he beats Devin Haney spectacular fashion looks amazing pops for Austrian very low doses of Austrian,

which are not going to affect him in terms of performance enhancing ability during the fight itself I don't know how we took it or what he took it I know people have got an Osterine accident like sugar Sean O'Malley got it through tainted supplements they proved it it's more than once that's happened yo well yo well yeah I sued yo one yeah one yeah which is if you would think anybody would not be fucking natural It's that guy. How does he still look like he does the Cuban fucking athlete program? That's how he's grappling He's taking a grappling match in Britain against a grappler Owen live see so we'll see him have a grappling. Oh, it's a beast

Now that's very interesting. Who do you think takes it? That's a good question It's a very good question. I mean thing yo well was one of the very best Cuban wrestlers ever I mean, he's a fucking tank. Yes, what silver medal at the Olympics Adam site have beat him, right? Yeah Yeah, I mean he's a monster man and and physically he's just such an imposing force like Luke Rockhold said that it hurt Robert Whitaker said the same thing. He said it hurts when you hit him He's just such an imposing force like Luke Rockhold said that it Robert Whitaker said the same thing. He said it hurts when you hit him It's like he's made out of metal pretty hurts when he kisses you as well every knocks. Yeah

That was rough. That's a rough way to go. Well, you know Luke likes to talk shit and you talk shit to that guy I like he did the salsa dancing for the press conference. That was the best to picking women out of the crowd I you don't have to take your missus you'd be like right and sit back down I know exactly that guy's such a fucking animal I mean I really wish he'd gotten into MMA earlier in his career would have been amazing to see because I think when he entered the UFC He was in his late 30s. Yeah, he's like 46. He's 46 now crazy. He still looks amazing. That's Randy Kittua Like 46 he's 46 now crazy. He still looks amazing. That's Randy Katoa Yeah, but like he doesn't look 46 like Randy looked like a strong 46 year old. I need that Cuban stack

Yeah, what his stack is not? I mean, I've told this story before for people that have heard it I'm sorry, but one of the things that happened to yo L when he got injured He fought in the UFC and then they brought him to a doctor. He had an orbital fracture and Some other issues they brought him to the doctor and the doctor said to the UFC's that where did you get this guy? And then he's like, yeah, he's amazing, right? He goes no you understand it because I've never seen a human being like this before the tendons in his eyes Are three times larger than a normal person's he said his orbital bone is already healing Three times larger than a normal person's he said his orbital bone is already healing So this guy's a freak how do I get to that level? I think you got to be born in Cuba

Messing around a shitty convicts in it genetics from Australia I think it's I just wonder what they do in Cuba for the athletes. Do you know I'm? I mean, without casting any aspersions in terms of performance enhancing supplements. There's only one way to find out. Yeah, go there. Ask them. I don't know. You know, I don't know what they did. But I mean, the guy's like Wolverine, but he's also a genetic specimen. I mean, there's only so much you could do with steroids. I mean, that guy. I know, I've tried. You don't even live weights, which is so crazy. You're taking steroids without lifting weights. I mean from time to time

You know just no good lifting program a Few pull-ups here and there. Yeah, but that's just nuts. I don't think steroids are gonna well They're gonna help you recover and train Yeah, it definitely helped your well-being I think Yeah, well if you're training 365, that's the argument, right? If you're training 365 days a year, like, and that's also the argument for like tour de France. You know, I've heard it argued from people that really

are experts that you're actually healthier to take steroids and performance enhancing drugs to do tour de France than you are without it. Because your body just can't recover without it. It's just so grueling. It's such a brutal race. There's a reason why so many of them are blood doping. So many of them are taking EPO and testosterone. I always wanted to try.

I actually like some people criticize me for saying I take steroids and jujitsu. But my like the way I look at it is the kids, the next generation, they're going to take it anyway. I at least want to put out I put out my exact stack. And I just want to send it out as almost like, it's like drugs, just say no doesn't work. It's like, I want to let them know I'm taking a safe amount of the doctor's guidance and that it's not a mystery where they're thinking like, I have to take pump one gram a week and all this stuff to compete at a high level. So it's like a middle ground. Obviously you

get criticized for it, but it's like like the other option is they don't know what a high level athlete is taking and they fucking ruin their body taking crazy dosages. Well, it would be interesting, like what would Jiu Jitsu look like if steroids weren't legal? I mean, one of the things we found out when you saw it, it came into the UFC, even though there was previous drug testing, it was really only during the weigh-ins, which is kind of just an intelligence test. That's all it is. Like, when you look at Alistair Overeem versus Brock Lesnar, the idea that either one of

those motherfuckers is clean is crazy talk. That's crazy talk, especially Alistair. I mean, Alistair was, he fought, when he fought 205, when he fought, look at, like back when he fought Chuck Liddell at 205, and then look at him at 265, gained 60 pounds and he looks like a fucking superhero uber Eam like those days like when he won the k1 Grand Prix and when he Had a heart and stuff. Oh my god I love it when they said the old days with it was an intelligence test because many guys still failed that intelligence Know what it is. You know how it is like you're in gyms. You have gym bros that are coaching you

They don't really know what the fuck they're talking about But they say a lot of good big words And you got this guy knows how to pass a test and you rely on these meatheads to try to pass the test You need a Victor Conte on the line. Hey, well, there's people that have those people I'm sure there's people I'm just guessing just throwing it out there, but I don't think everyone's clean I think there's probably some really sophisticated, there's so much money involved in MMA now. There's probably some really sophisticated scientists that are working with elite athletes and they're developing protocols that are

either undetectable or they have a short lasting, like, which is probably why you saw it wakes you up at six o'clock in the morning. know the idea is like to catch you while it's still in your system if you have short-acting stuff That's yeah, like a test propionate or something like the water base Yeah, like weren't they doing that in baseball? They were taking like testosterone gummies and the idea is that they they metabolize so quickly you get their effect of them But then they're out of your system by the time you get tested. I tried those, tasted like shit, you know?

I don't know if they did anything, but. I mean, it's fucking gummy with testosterone in it. How could it taste good? Yeah, throw it out of the tongue. What does it taste like? Just bad, hey. Like chemical? Yeah, like it sits there a while.

I remember I was trying to get legal steroids in Australia when I was coming up and I just couldn't do it. My doctor gave me the testosterone companies. I was like, fuck this shit. It's like, I felt like it wouldn't work. In Australia, what are the laws like? I mean, here, I think any GP can prescribe testosterone in Australia. You have to be like an endocrinologist. They added a layer to it. And it's hard to see an endocrinologist that's going to give testosterone to a young healthy dude, you know? Guys back there would do all sorts of crazy shit.

They're not sleeping for a couple days. They're beat off a bunch of times trying to crash the levels, go get the blood check. Doctors are like, oh, your test is low. Yeah. Well, another thing, the problem with a test being low, this is what they found when they did it. They had testosterone use exemptions in the UFC for a brief amount of time a few years And those are the Vitor Belfort years, you know and the problem is

When a guy's done steroids this whole life his endocrine system is fucked up already So you go in there and they test your testosterone level and you're like, wow, your levels are super low Like you need testosterone like thank you. But the reason why they're low is because you've been on steroids your whole life. Yeah, your body doesn't doesn't make it anymore. Yeah. I mean, you went you look at Vitor from the early days like Vitor in UFC 12. When he fought Scott Ferozo and Trey Tellegman, he weighed like 200 pounds. You know, they used to call him Vitor Gracie back then. Victor Gracie. I was training at school. Why'd they throw the C in there? I don't know. It was a K. It was a K, Victor Yeah, it was I don't know. I don't understand it

I don't know why they did that and I know that I think they were threatening to sue him if he used the Gracie name I think Someone's active of that shit. Yes. I think was Orion. Horian was very Hicks on Representing yeah, where'd you get that? That shit. Hey, yes, I think was Orion Horian was very represent. It's on Representing yeah, where'd you get that? Some brand sent it to me. I like it though. A dope shirt. I should remember the name. He was the fucking man, huh? The shirt company feel bad for him. Oh Fuck it people find it. Is it on the back anywhere for a label?

Don't say anything. Just say tag label us was it What does it say on the bottom? It's there. Is that the name? Was the bottom say there? Oh just says Hicks and Christen. Oh Man, I feel bad for him. But cool shirt honoring the yeah. It's pretty dope. He is the og He was the fucking man cool motherfucker. Yeah, you ever train with him? I've never trained with him, never met him. Really? Interesting dude, man. Very interesting dude. I got a chance to watch Coliseum, remember when he fought Funaki? Was that his last one?

Yes. I got a chance to watch footage of that with him in his house. Oh, the one where the guy came to the gym, right? Was it the gym challenge match? No, I didn't watch that. He didn't show me that. Someone's got to have that. He's got it. He's got we're going to get that.

I know. I'm like, release that. Why don't you release that? That was Yoji Anjo, right? Yeah. He came to challenge. He just beat the tape up his knuckles with duct tape and beat the fuck out of him. And he goes, yeah.

And he's like, if we are competing, when your tab bit's over, if we're fighting, when I'm done and I'm done, I decide. He just beat the fuck out of that dude. That's some scary shit. I feel sad for him now. He's going, oh, Parkinson's, right? Who does? I believe Hickson does.

Does he really? I believe so, yeah. No kidding. I didn't hear that. Yeah. I saw Kira Gracie announced something about it See, I always wonder because we talked about Freddie Roach like that's that's trauma induced Parkinson's and you know Hickson didn't get hit a whole lot in his career, but he did get hit. You know, I always wonder Yeah, Hickson Gracie fight against Parkinson's. I'm not scared of death, but quitting is unacceptable

Rolling Stone magazine whoa This is Rolling Stone. That's crazy That is crazy that there's a Hicks and Gracie article in Rolling Stone. That's amazing Wow Fuck man Parkinson's. Oh, we get a Cronbach. I Hope so too. You might come back to grappling maybe well, I mean his last fight in MMA. It just looked like he was just trying to pull guard and work off his back and It's just he just didn't look like he's prepared. I know a place he could do that. Yeah

Do you think he would be willing to me was He was such an elite grappler, the Gary Tonan match. What a fucking match that was. Holy shit, man. Craziest shit ever. That was before Gary was training with the Donaher Death Squad, right? Wasn't it? Either. I mean, good question. After if we saw the match, we'd see who was in the corner. Because this was definitely before the leg lock days. This was a long time ago. Gary was dominating that fight until the very end. Back in those days it was crazy. I still miss Eddie Cummings. I'm like, what happened to him?

You know what I mean? Right. What did happen to him? That guy was good. I've tried to catch up with him a couple of times in New York. Like reach down. I just wanted to have lunch with the guy. I'm like, pfft.

But he just left the grappling world. Just vanished. What is he doing? No, I don't think anyone have lunch with the guy. But he's like, he just left the grappling world, just vanished. What is he doing? No, I don't think anyone knows. He came back. I saw in a couple of videos, he came back to Hensos and trained a couple of times. But I think he doesn't like any media attention

and like circled around on Instagram and he just vanished again. Really? No kidding. So crazy. Yeah, gone. He was an interesting guy. Oh, he was an elite grappler too.

Well, he was one of the very best of the leg lock guys in the early, early days. He was scary. We all copied him. He was a scary grappler too. Well, he was one of the very best of the leg lock guys in the early days He was scary. We all copied him. You know, he was a scary scary dude super smart Like really intelligent guy and now yeah, he ended up with a Tavia Bourdain, right? Mm-hmm Yeah, they started dating when she started training at Hensos and I don't know what happened She competed I think she competed in grappling a lot as well. Yeah, she had fucked up knees, man. Her knees were all blown out. I remember trying to tell her to get surgery.

To fix them up. Eddie kept breaking them, probably not. I don't know. Drilling. I think she had at least one with no ACL. That's crazy, eh? Doesn't Nikki have a fucked up knee? Nikki Ryan?

Nikki Ryan does. Man, Nikki Ryan gets injured every three minutes. You know what I mean? Does he? He's made of Yeah, doesn't Nikki ever fucked up knee Nikki Ryan Nikki Ryan does man Nikki Ryan gets injured every three minutes You know what I mean? He's made of glass. Unfortunately, I injured him. I came back trying with him one round injured him the other day I'm just like fuck, but how does this happen? I felt bad a bit of a weird scramble, but he just beat JT Taurus. So like biggest win of his That was a big win. Yeah, he looked great in that. That was beautiful. Yeah, he was training real serious for that But doesn't he have like one ACL that's gone. Yeah. Yeah, he looked great in that. That was beautiful. Yeah, he was training real serious for that. But doesn't he have like one ACL that's gone? Yeah, yeah. I remember he tore his ACL and the doctors were like, okay, we can attempt surgery or you can do rehab only. So he just did nothing and just kept training.

He didn't even rehab the thing. I'm like, bro, do something. Yeah, he's wild. That's not wise for the future though. Not at all. I mean, I think he had 95% of his meniscus removed in one of his legs. Oh, God damn it. Yeah, I'm pretty sure one surgeon was like, I won't do that. You're too young for it, but you got it done. Well, you know, they do meniscus replacements. Oh, they do that? Yes, they do cadaver meniscus replacements, especially with young people. It's really effective. He wouldn't even work and he's got some mileage in the body So it's like his knees. God. I hope he does it because he can do it and it'll actually take we got him in this though He's going after the million. That'll be exciting would have fucked up knee There's always something fucked up with him. You know, he's always injured in some way

Well, isn't that the case just like with so many elite combat sports athletes It's very rare other than boxers. It's very rare There's a story going around about this NBA player who got a meniscus from a donor Yeah, I mean, it's a cadaver yes, they don't say cadaver at all no. That's what they mean. They mean a donor Yeah, no one's gonna give you their fucking It's a cadaver donor and And like I said, it's effective. It's possible. I think there's an age where they don't recommend it anymore

because of the lack of blood circulation. But I always wonder for who, though? When they say you can't do it after 40, but for who? For the regular person who is a 40 year old who doesn't work out and is not like physically fit or if you did that to say someone like Stipe Miocic. Like could he get a meniscus replacement when he's you know constantly training and he but how much does your age affect blood flow to that area? Like what is the factor? It doesn't make sense.

If like, if you still have like a great VO2 max, you're still very fit and you're super healthy, you train all the time, you obviously have great circulation. Like I don't understand why at a certain age they wouldn't recommend it. I wonder if it's based on averages. Like you take the average 50 year old guy and you give it to him and his knees still fucked up because his body didn't heal properly But like with peptides with all the things that are available today and stem cells. I wonder yeah It's gonna be some things you do stack the deck. Yeah favor for that for sure once you remove your meniscus I have a meniscus was scoped on my left knee and it's always gonna be fucked up. There's always like something Yeah, it's just grinding right? Well, it's it's not all of mine is gone. It's only in a corner, but I

suffered a what's called a insufficiency fracture where you're because there's no meniscus I Crash skiing and I cracked my bones together so hard that it cracked the top of my shin bone Skiing scares me skiing is no boating. That was my last time skiing. I got a concussion I fucking banged my head off the ground real hard And I was skiing around this corner and this light this lady didn't know what she was doing and she's like That'd be me and it was well, you know you learn but she was on you know a Fairly difficult trail, and I'm not a great skier, but you know I have good balance. I'm pretty okay

I know how to do it But I was like either I hit this lady and fucking kill her or I have to fall down So I chose falling down and I fucking bang my head so hard Like as my head bang I'm like oh that one counts. I was like No, it would have been bad it would have been bad cuz she wasn't very large and I was no gabby wasn't going slow I want to see her on this. It would have been yeah, bro. That's like a bowling ball. Just fucking flying down the hill I mean all that weight the momentum of all that weight I imagine when you're really big like my kids ski and they're they ski so easy because they're light and like we

We but the heavier you are like the more fucking momentum is coming down lots of knee injuries skiing Yeah, my friend Shane Dorian he blew his fucking knee out snowboarding. He hit a tree, torched his knee, had to get it reconstructed and stem cells and all that jazz. He's good to go now, but it took a long time before it was good. And I would imagine you're a professional, you're a professional surfer, one of the best in the world, big wave surfer. I mean, he's a fucking monster.

Like I would do everything to preserve my goddamn knees knees but he loves snowboarding so much he's still back at it like you're insane man yeah that's crazy that's crazy you'd risk your career your career well I think he's kind of his career as a competition it's kind of over you know he's just kind of a representative of a bunch different brands and I don't know if he competes. I mean, Kelly Slater still competes, which is crazy and still wins. Kelly still trains, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I suppose that's risky for yourself. Oh, yeah, that's got to be risky. It's got to be risky for everything. Like I know guys who play musical instruments and they fucked up their hands and she gets it like broken

a finger. I'm like, yikes. Like tattoo artists tattoo out of surgeons. It's like, maybe don't train. Yeah, I mean, if you break a hand and that's the hand you play guitar with and now you've got these fucking gnarly ass fingers and you're still trying to move at the same speed. Yeah, I had some, my fingers, one time I got my thumb stuck up here in grappling and another time my finger got stuck on the ground

and went straight up. Oh, God. That was in Puerto Rico. All of the ties that broke went straight up. I remember that was in Puerto Rico. All of a Tarza broke my hand and I went to the hospital in Puerto Rico. We got the x-ray, I'm waiting around for hours and the guy's like, it's fine, no breaks, nothing. So I leave and then I'm like, my hand's fucked up.

So I go back and end up getting the x-ray and I can see it's broken. And I ended up getting it treated. I just posted it on Instagram. I was like, any hand surgeons, what can I do for this? And we just spoke about it on Instagram. What did he say to do? I just left it like this for a while. Didn't really use it too much. So was it a fracture in the sense where they didn't have to bolt it together? It's the same one when people punch a wall or something. Oh okay. Like the one down here. So that one didn't

need anything. But I mean, I just, I was a lot of Puerto Rican stories like that where I was like, yeah, yeah, it's not broken. I'm like, bro, I can see it's broken. Not so good medicine over there. No, not at all. Yeah, no, that was a, that was a wild place. Not good for getting antibiotics for staff either. No. Yes. I mean, I've had plenty of times where I've gone to the doctor and they're like, this is staff. I need antibiotics, but they don't want to be told Like by some fucking idiot that they're like diagnosing themselves giving themselves the treatment so they resist the

Resisted on you. Yeah, really? I've had doctors not give me antibiotics, and then it's gone and tell you it's not stuff They're like now you're fine. Just put some cream on it boy. Oh Boy, yeah, but I get it it I pray have guys coming all the time. Give me this give me this right, but no one's coming in to get antibiotics for fun Yeah, I mean, that's not like painkillers. No. Yeah, it's I Guess I control my bit. But yeah, I just have to deal with like people coming in So much anxiety I can't deal with people coming in. Oh, I hurt my back. Yeah, I hurt my back. Give me some Xanax. I'm having so much anxiety. I can't deal with this. They just want you to freak out enough in the office.

Maybe they'll give you something just to calm you down. That's a good play. Really depends on the doctor. Because some doctors are just a little loose with it. Yeah, true. I feel like, honestly, the more expensive the doctor, the better your chances. Oh, yeah.

Getting what you want. Oh, yeah. Getting what you want. Oh yeah. I would imagine. They probably have some sort of fucking deal too. Like, you know, my wife's mom was a nurse, and she would explain to me how the whole pharmaceutical rep thing worked. And Brigham, Brigham from Wasted Well,

he used to be a pharmaceutical rep. He's like, bro, like, the relationship they have with doctors is like, it's so slippery. Oh, to get them to prescribe. Yeah, it's so slippery because you know Even if they're not paying you and they do pay people but even if they're not like this is your friend They show up a Brigham was like I would show up with their kids softball games. I knew everybody's name You become friendly. They want to prescribe your drugs, you're a good guy. That's wild.

Yeah, it's fucking creepy. Like that's the opioid epidemic and stuff like that, right? Oh, that's exactly it. Did you ever watch that show Pain Killer on Netflix? I started but I never finished it. Fucking lazy. Oh, it's so fucked up. How those people are not in jail is insane.

Not only did they bullshit people and get people to prescribe these things, but they ruined who knows how many lives. Hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions, dead from opioid overdoses. And then the amount of lives that are destroyed because of those things. Families wrecked, everything.

And they tricked people. They tricked them into doing drugs that are going to be... They just paid a fine, right? Massive fine? That's all that's... Yeah, but not enough. Also, part of the fine was that they were going to avoid prosecution. Like if they paid X amount of billions of dollars, they would avoid prosecution. But I think then Painkiller came out, the documentary came out, the Netflix series, and then they kind of withheld that. I think one of the guys who was the main guy for the FDA that was responsible for green

lighting, Oxycontin and Oxycodone. That guy, they found him. He was out like in a small town in New Hampshire. He was hiding. He was hiding. And yeah, I mean, they paid him off. And this fucker was out there roaming around and then they found him and he started harassing them. Epstein's girlfriend, hey.

Except she's in jail somewhere. Yeah, they got her eventually. Yeah, eventually she's gonna get out and then she's gonna fucking go swimming and drown or something. Yeah, true, true. I mean mean that'll be me after this tournament. I can I do you worry about that? I mean it should be That's not comforting should be alright, yeah, I mean it's just a bit of friendly competition It is that but it's also like you're specifically going head-to-head like if you had done it a month earlier a month later I don't think we'd have the same issues. I don't think we'd have the same impact on the sport though either

I think you would We'll do it. We'll do it a month after as well Well, oh cool. I'm my buddy. We need another million brother Going again, but you want to do it once a year, right? You don't want to do it more than once. Yeah, honestly I'm on the phone on star pay talking to people about the survey and stuff. I gotta explain everyone the rule set Yeah And becoming a promoter. Do you have to hire a staff now? Do you have to hire all these people to run the thing? I mean, I'm the ideas guy, you know

My business partner Seth below I'm like he's doing all the coordination and stuff But me I'm just talking to the athletes coming up the rules sort of So he does all the coordination like hiring the staff making sure the event is well run Because I would imagine if you've never run an event before like that's obviously you can't call Abu Dhabi and ask for tips You call Eddie I should you call Eddie Bravo. Yeah, I spoke to he loves it That's like a little... Yeah, he's very excited about it....little hat tip to him with the name as well. Yeah. I think having something where there's more money involved is always good.

It's just like the timing of it. It's like when to do it. If you'd asked me, I would have said, hmmm. They still gotta watch the finals, you know? Well, yeah, true. They still gotta watch the finals. They get to watch the finals. But you won't have the same people competing, because if they're going to compete on Friday and Saturday, that precludes them from being able to compete in Abu Dhabi. I mean, yeah, for sure. Do you want the gold medal in 10k or the million though?

Right. That's the argument. That is the argument, right? And it's certainly, look, competition is almost always good. Even when people don't like it, it forces them to up their game. And I think at the end of the day, it's going to be good for the athletes and good for the sport because it'll make people more excited and the beef, the beef

will, you know, to back biggie with I'm going down in Vegas, like to back to remember how both of those guys died, though, by the way, they died very badly. Well, to pack and biggie, like it would have been better if to pocket big remember how both of those guys died though by the way they died very badly You know Tupac and Biggie like it would have been better if Tupac and Biggie just kind of worked it out like I Mean even like Drake and Kendrick but that was entertaining But Drake's house got shot at you know like someone didn't a security guard get shot. I think he got shot Yeah, and then but we got some good music Sort I didn't security got took the hit. I mean Yeah, yes, I'm in it's something so Sort. I didn't listen to any of it. Security guys took the hit. I mean, yeah. Some of the songs are good.

I just find it foolish. The Baef. I'm not a beef guy. I feel like those guys could have wrote banging songs. They both put out four songs each, you know? It's like, use that creativity and just...

Yeah, I guess if you driven. I mean, I get it. I get it. It's part of the culture. I get it. Don't get me wrong. Like I like roast battles. Love them. Yeah, I love do comedy.

They should have done rap battles. Yeah, pay-per-view or something. That would have been amazing. Yeah, that would have that would have been amazing. Yeah, rap battles are awesome. It's just you know, it's another opportunity to write. It's another opportunity to create something and it's high amazing. Yeah. Rap battles are awesome. It's just another opportunity to write. It's another opportunity to create something. And it's high pressure.

Yeah. So in that sense, this rivalry between ADCC and the CJI. Just one Australian idiot versus city. You know? Let's see what happens. Yeah. Versus a monarchy. A monarchy, yeah.

But I mean, I still love ADCC. I love the love the history you know and I think you can wash that away. It's amazing. Yeah. Do you think you could ever compete for them again? I think that's over now. I mean I wouldn't do it for 10k. I don't know. I mean who knows.

The doors are open for anything. I don't take any of this stuff too seriously at all. You know what I mean? A lot of it's just fun on the internet. Like I don't really, you know, like fucking around having a good time, you know, like I'll do anything for the right price. So it's like, if the spectacle's there,

if people are interested in it, I'll make it happen. Right, so you would go back if they would have you back. For sure, and ultimately what I want, and what I wanted from day one, was just athletes across everything in GD2 to be compensated just a little bit more. You know, cause again, we don't have the prestige. So if they had ramped it up from 10 to 20, you would have done this.

Wouldn't have done it. Wow. Boy, they're probably going fuck. Yeah. I, that's, that's really what sort of kicked it off. But also I wanted to do like, this is opportunity to start up our nonprofit and stuff. So it's like gives me opportunity to to do, like, this is opportunity to start up our nonprofit and stuff. So it's like, gives me opportunity to give back in other ways. So with your, this attitude about not taking things so seriously,

do you think you and Gordon would ever bury the hatchet? I mean, for sure. We'll both take some MDMA, we'll get to the bottom of it. You know? I think he needs it. You know what I mean? Don't you think though, that for a guy to be as dominant as he is, you have to be that guy?

That's like Michael Jordan in his prime. They said if you beat him in a game of pool, he wouldn't talk to you for like two weeks. Just you have to be kind of a psycho. I know, but I guess you see the contrast in some areas. Like in my opinion, Volkanovsky was that. GSP was that. But really nice guys.

Yeah, Anderson Silva was that. Again, I don't think Gordon's... I mean, it's hard to say what he is, you know? It's hard, it's like, it's hard, I don't know him that well. I know what image he puts out. I know a little bit of the stuff behind the scenes, but... But you trained with him for years. You gotta know him.

Yeah, but you know what Jiu-Jitsu guys are like. You're like, if I can get on the mat, I don't wanna hang out with them for years. You gotta know them. Yeah, but you know what Jiu-Jitsu guys are like. You like fucking get on the mat so I don't want to hang out with them afterwards. Fucking weirdos. Who wants to have a conversation with a Jiu-Jitsu guy? Me! That's why you're here. Well, some of them. Some of them. Fucking, some of them are a bit odd, you know? Well, don't you think that like...

No, I love them. I'm part of it, but... Odd people would make the world go round, though. Oh, yeah. I mean, for sure I'm not criticizing. I'm fucking weird. Look at what I love him. I'm part of it, but odd people would make the world go round though. Oh Yeah, I mean for sure. I'm not criticizing. I'm fucking weird. Look at I'm doing you're weird. Yeah but Some people I find cool easy to talk to I know it's just for me as a guy who likes both of you guys I don't like that. You don't talk anymore. I don't like that. You have this beef and I've asked Gordon to define it He can't he does it doesn't define it. It it's very difficult he doesn't say anything bad about you but he doesn't define it I mean I just love fucking around like Australia we love

attacking each other like I say worse things to my friends and I say to Gordon you know I listen I'm a comedian I know about that so it's like I just talk wild shit to each other too some guys are so good to provoke you get a good fucking reaction out of them you know well? Well with comedians, you know who you can hang out with by who can take shit You know because like if someone makes fun of me if it's funny I laugh But if you make fun of some people and they're like, hey, they're like, oh look at you, Softie You just oh you fucked up. You fucked up. You take yourself seriously You just take what you do seriously, but you never take yourself seriously. That's so silly

There's no benefit to that because then you don't get to enjoy the laughs when someone makes fun of you Someone makes fun of you and it's really like if you're watch kill Tony. Yeah. Yeah well when David Lucas and Tony Hinchcliffe go at each other it is One of my favorite things in life there's the both so fucking ruthless and hilarious, but if David gets Tony, Tony laughs hard. And if Tony gets David, David laughs hard. They laugh. They love each other. They're really good friends. But they're fucking ruthless when it comes to that shit, when they're roasting each other. But they're having a good time. Like if you roast someone

and they get like actually upset as a comedian all the other comedians be like oh Look at you. You're upset at a joke you fucking hypocrite like what's wrong with you? Well, I mean that's I mean Gordon Gordon says bro. You suck. You never want anything. I'm like, I could as I do that Is that like that's the what is the beef though like it doesn't make sense I mean for me, I'm just having a good time like it's like I'm in a sport of people that take themselves very seriously right and it's just He takes himself very seriously, so it's just like so you like picking on them. I like Like I mean like what you say with comedians. You know if someone's to Sometimes you know yeah, And it's good material. He's like, he's just walking good material, you know?

It's like he's provoking me. You know what I mean? Well, he would just post something that I'm like, I swear, I'm like, this guy's playing a fucking character, he's a genius, but it's real. You know, like he's baiting me. I gotta say something. Well, you are probably the funniest guy in Jiu Jitsu,

other than Eddie. Eddie's hilarious. Eddie loves the jokes too. He gets it. Sometimes I pass on him some deeper levels of the jokes and he gets the full story. Loves it. We go deep conspiracy on the jiu-jitsu jokes. Oh no, Eddie's fucking hilarious. He's one of the funniest people I've ever met. I'm so glad he's doing stand-up again too because I tried to talk him into doing stand-up a long time ago, like back in 2001. I was like, dude, I'm telling you, just try. It'll suck at first, but just like, it sucked when I learned jujitsu. You suck at first, but you have the ability to do it.

Overcome, yeah. He took a long time off it, but when he was teaching, he would teach classes and especially seminars. He would have material. Oh, yeah. He would do it during seminars. It was hilarious. And then he's like like I think I'm gonna do comedy again and so teaching seminars that's what I do I'll say the same joke and then I

look over and I'm like fuck that guy was at another seminar I said the same thing I'm like he knows he knows my tricks yeah yeah that's the problem with jokes yeah if they already know the jokes it's like a little bit of an issue and I'm like fuck have I said this a few too Many times now. Yeah, switch topics. Yeah, you got to make new stuff up You got to make up new new stuff for seminars when you go and do seminars Do you find it? It's a lot It's a lot of MMA fighters that are wanting to learn jujitsu. Is it just jujitsu guys? Is it a mixture? I mean nowadays like man It's like such a variety of people like sometimes even beginners like white belts will show up and it's like they're just hanging, they're just coming to hang out, you know, like I love doing seminars all around the world and just meeting the

people that are doing the sport, you know, and like I keep them at a really affordable price because I always remember when people would come to my city, like sometimes the seminars were so expensive, I couldn't afford it. So I just insist we book a big venue, we keep the prices low and I just get to see who from that country is participating in the sport you know I just love it. Is that you enjoy that more than competing now just going around and doing seminars? I enjoy like it like all aspects of it you know like obviously too many seminars exhausting I've done like back to back to back to back I like the seminar be

three hours and then out of there. Otherwise it's too much social interaction, you know? You probably also don't absorb anything after three hours. And I have to roll. I still run the gauntlet. I try to roll as many people as possible. That's got to be hair-raising. They fucking try to kill me. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm just like, bro, you paid to come here. You like me. What are you doing to me? Yeah.

It's like I'll be hungover, jet lagged, and it'll be like, I'll do like, sometimes one hour, one and a half hours straight, and you go every three minutes. And I'm like, what are you doing to me, bro? It's fucking one hour in, you're trying to kill me. Yeah, after a while. Test your patience, that's like meditating, you know? I'm just like, all right, I'm gonna kill this guy.

That's one of the legendary Hickson stories, that Hickson would do a seminar, and then take all the black belts there, and just tap them one after another I Try to do fucked up shit to people though, you know, like like what just crazy stupid submissions, you know that keeps it entertaining Crab walks like yeah the Boston crab crab. I love hitting a Boston crab I'm like you remember that forever You see that one guy who did it never me. Yeah. Yeah, crazy. Man, that would hurt. I've never been put in it. Yeah. What is it? Is it a flexibility thing? Is it a spine thing? I

think it'll break your spine. Yeah. I do it to people from Mount. I give them Mount and then I put my toes in their armpits, take them over the top, Boston crab. That's some fun of the seminar is just hitting fucked up shit on people in front of their friends. I think that's the most enjoyable thing. The... Yeah, here's the dude who did it in MMA. How did he set it up? Jesus. He just climbed over the top and got his legs. The other guy looks like he's fighting for his life

and nothing's happening. Well, the other guy looks a little out of shape too. He's just a little noogies to the face. It's like he's already ready for it. It almost looks fake, eh? I don't think it's fake I think it's just a low-level MMA show Wow that's crazy fuck that guy would never hear the end of that a I remember a guy used to train with he actually sponsors me and he had an MMA fight and he tapped he won for three rounds in a minute to go I think 30 seconds ago he

crossed his leg from back and oh no and I fucking remind him of it to this day. It's been years. That is a crazy submission. That hurts, you know? Oh, it hurts like hell. But you've got to imagine, like, if you're winning the fight, I don't think I've ever seen an MMA fight where someone tapped to that.

I'll send it to you. But guys do it. Guys do it. Even Hickson did it. When Hickson did it when Hickson submitted Funaki's crossed his legs. He guess he just rather have the squeeze and if the guy threatens it he'll let it go. Yeah sometimes I think it's about being relaxed it's like if you're doing this they can catch it really tight. If your ankles are relaxed sometimes they slip off the top. Right. I think relaxing in those

positions sometimes helps. Well also being hyper aware of when the guy lifts his leg up to try To lock it, but yeah, I've had it done to me before it's fucking horrible People try to do that to me at seminars like they'll try and play around and then catch me or some shit I'm just like fucking relax gay fucking You have to always be aware right because you're dealing with people trying to get a reputation try to break my legs everything Have you ever tapped at seminars? Yeah tapped, but I'll give them a couple more so they don't believe it. You know Their friends who believe they get me once but not three times, you know What do you mean? Like if a blue belt test me to seminar one time?

Maybe people believe so you let them tap you a couple times a couple more, you know Oh, see you throw in a few. Yeah, that's the story for him Tap Craig Jones three times. Yeah once maybe and they're like, wait a minute. I tapped Craig Jones three times. Yeah once maybe. And they're like wait a minute I tapped you. How the fuck you tapping Craig Jones. That doesn't even make sense. Take the story away from him. What have you ever tapped to at a seminar? Actually I had a seminar at Kenan's gym and a guy got me into north-south. But I tapped at seminars from time to time because I fuck around. I'll give him out, give him my back, my umba. and then I'm always like guys I'm gonna give you positions, but like fuck if you get it. I'll tap like yeah relax Yeah, I got shit to do. Yeah, don't ruin my neck. Yeah, they try

Yeah, some of guys try to kill you necks are a bad one too man when you get a hurt neck Like when guys get like Al Jameen got his disc replaced in his neck And I was like oh and your neck is gone like that's a fucking creepy one That's crazy. Yeah, I think I just retired at that point, you know Chris Weidman got his dicker this Chris I think he got his disc replaced as well I think you have the same thing and there's a few guys have had disc replaced in their back and in their neck You know they can do

That titanium articulating disc now, like where it allows your neck to move pretty normally, but you know, like how long does that last? I just tap to everything and not put in much effort and I feel like it keeps my body safe. You know what I mean? Like if I'm training and the guy's going hard, I'm like, all right, you got it, bro.

Like, I'm like, let's just. That's smart. That's an ego thing. You have a healthy ego I'm just like who cares you know like it's like yeah that's the point yeah well it's definitely better than going out like you know Vinny Vinny Magalé's with letting your fucking leg get destroyed like that if you can just relax like that and allow yourself to get tapped you will save so many

injuries I control the security footage in the cameraman though so you know that I make the footage disappear if you get some oh and your gym yeah that's her issue get delete that that's the problem right guys want to release footage I want to sell it hey like if you will come to Jim I'm like well let you tap me give me some money yeah you can take it home well listen Craig Good luck on this. I really hope it works out I hope ADCC isn't too pissed at you and And I hope you you've started a trend and I've hope this is gonna look at that the bulls

I hope it 80 days 20 hours 58 minutes and 47 seconds until it starts from right now. That's not reassuring. That's close Yeah, that is 80 days is not a long amount of time but I hope it works out and I really hope that it elevates the sport and at the very least it's getting some eyeballs eyeballs on the sport. Thanks for letting me talk about it. My pleasure so tell everybody how to find you on Instagram and how to find the website for the event. Yeah. Craig Jones BJJ.com will sell tickets to this.

Sorry. Craig Jones BJJ for Instagram. UNLV.com is where tickets will be up on the 31st. Um, so at the Thomas and Mac website, Thomas and Mac website and then Fair Fight Foundation is the, is the website with all the information. That's what we saw there. And CJI official is the Instagram page where it's meant to be professional, but it's gonna be mostly memes Mostly mostly memes and jokes. Okay, we had a spelling error on the poster. We left it, you know

I was like fuck we fucked up will commit to it. All right, beautiful. All right, man. Well, good luck and Make sure you count all that before you leave Thank you. Bye everybody.