The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #158 with Tank Abbott

Episode Date: June 6, 2024

Joe sits down with David “Tank” Abbott, a retired professional mixed martial artist, former pro wrestler, and pioneer in the world of combat sports. www.ufc.com/athlete/tank-abbott Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Joe Rogan Experience. Trained by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. All right, what's happening, baby? Good to see you. Oh, likewise. It's been a long road for both of us. It has been a long road, man. I think I first met you in 1997. I don't know the dates but I remember meeting you officially or in my memory in New Orleans

or somewhere around there when I was sitting like in an auditorium and you came in and sat down next to me. At that time, people used to bother me all the time. And so I was getting some fresh air and away from everyone. And you came up and sat down and I was in my head. I was like, oh no, I just want some peas. And you rolled up and you were totally cool. And I was like, oh oh that guy's cool.

We had a good session rapping. Yeah I remember first meeting, you know when you talk about like the early days of the UFC, you are one of the real original legends of MMA. I mean you were one of the very first guys and you were one of the very first guys. First of all, you're one of the very first guys, if not the first to wear gloves, which I always thought was very smart. I know Vitor, I think, was one of the first. No, the very first.

Was it you? I don't know. But the people out there in the internet world say this Melton Bowen guy. He was a striker boxer kind of guy in the early UFC's I did not get the idea from him at all. And who was the other guy with the one glove? Yeah, he just died recently. Damn it. I forgot his name It was back in the days with the Fred Eddish. Art Jimerson. Yes. Yeah. Fred Eddish. That's right. Fred Eddish. And Harold Howard and all those guys. Yes. And at the time, I had just gotten out of jail for beating up a cop's son. And they kind of he used his position to his dad make things go the way for the

prosecution even though he deserved to get beat up and I obliged him but I was going back and forth from a halfway house to work from the guy that got me into the show. And we stopped off at a like a Dick's sporting goods store, big box sporting goods store like that. I don't think it was Dick's but it was something like that. And they were bag gloves and I put them on and I go these would be perfect but they had a post in them so you couldn't really wrestle with them. And I was like, hmm, I could take the post out.

I ended up cutting it off and it was just a clear plastic thick tube that you can hold on to. So I got rid of that and I go, these are perfect. And I think they were Harbinger gloves. And I knew, because I'd been in hundreds of street fights, altercations, that's where I come from. Although I've wrestled since I was eight years old. But I used to beat people up on the street. That deserved it.

Yeah, absolutely. There's not one guy out there that didn't want to do the same thing to me. I was just better at it. So I knew my hands would get hurt. And I'm like, you can't fight three times in one night without your hands getting busted up. So I cut those out and I go these are perfect I could wrestle in them. As I said I'd wrestled my whole life and they were perfect. Did you have hand wraps on? No

no hand wraps. Just the gloves? Yeah. Did you wrap your wrists or anything? No. Nothing? And what was the law back then, were the rules rather? What were the rules in for, you were allowed to wear wrestling shoes, you were allowed to hit the nuts back then. Your first fights, you were allowed to pull hair, hit the nuts. You could do anything.

There wasn't, until I came along. And anyways, they, you just couldn't, I can't even tell you what you couldn't do but That you couldn't bite and you couldn't I gouge those were the only two rules I think fish hooking right now That was me. Oh really you started I introduced Fish hooking and So at the fighters meeting, they

have these meetings with all the fighters and they all sit in there and I guess think they're bad ass. But I guess they are in their own world. So they're all sitting around and big John McCartney was up there explaining the rules. And I think he is having trouble since there wasn't any. So at the end of that, I asked him, I said, I had the gloves with me,

and I say, can I wear these? And in his big bellowing, goofy voice, he goes, oh, if you wanna to wear them go ahead thinking I was some kind of fool when in fact I was thinking everybody else were fools they've never really been in a fight and your hands get busted up so yeah I thought the first very first time I saw you wearing them like that guy smart that and look and when you knocked out was it John Tua?ua Matua John Matua when you knocked him out I was like see like this you can still generate insane power, but you don't hurt your hands

Absolutely, and I didn't hurt my hands although At the end of that fight I not that fight, but you fought three times in one night And I think I I busted up my hand it didn't break it times in one night and I think I busted up my hand, it didn't break it, but busted up where I had to go to the hospital and get it x-rayed and I got to go. I didn't want to go because I was a kid and like no one sends me to the hospital even myself, you know. My busted up hands now, I'll be alright, but my father talked me into going so I went there and there all my opponents were all stretched out and

I'm saying oh, how you doing? I'm just passing through so They x-rayed it and said I was alright and went back to the cocktail party and had some fun Did you have any like injuries during your career? Oh and said I was alright and went back to the cocktail party and had some fun. Did you have any like injuries during your career? Oh sure. I mean when I fought when I needed knee surgery against Ferozo, I couldn't run, I couldn't do anything and I ended up taking the fight. I told them I didn't want to fight and then back in those days they had ways of stacking the cards against you and so the owner of

the show at that time says hey show up you got a small art you have a box or your first fight so that's not going to be a big deal. And he goes, then you got a little guy, like a 200 pound guy that was from Shamrock's camp. He was a bowlander. Jerry Bolander. Yeah, yeah. And you can fight him and he's nothing because he's like, you know, 200 pounds. You throw him around like a rag doll.

And I'm like, okay, you know, talking me into it, realizing he's just trying to sell his show and get it over. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, well, I've never wanted to say no to a fight. And so I said, okay, you talked me into it, I'll show up. But I couldn't I couldn't run I couldn't do anything and like jog one time around the track of 400. I couldn't do it so I go and take the boxer make short work of him and because Boxing is

Good if you're gonna box and stand up in a ring but you're not going to go anywhere in a fight just with boxing as a skill. It might help you throw a punch and that kind of thing but if your main plan of attack is boxing you're going to get taken down and you can't box from your back. So anyways back to the show I take short work of him and I'm like all right so I got this little 90 pounder, 190 pounder and make short work of him and I think I was supposed to fight Mark Coleman at that time. And I was like, oh well, we'll just see who's tougher and not get taken down and we'll just

throw punches and he's not really at that time very skilled on his feet. So I had at least a fighter's chance at the whole deal. And so, you know, you have these like dressing rooms that are screened off and there's an opponent, or not an opponent, alternate, big guy going crazy making all this noise. He sounded like a an elephant running around in a cage I'm going what the hell that guy doing I go he's not even fighting. He's just an alternate Well, it turns out it comes for us to go in with bowlander and what happens? Oh, he pulls out. Why did he pull out? Oh, he just, he couldn't make it. And I'm like, whoa,

whoa, whoa. And I just fell off the turnip God's nose what and I go crazy I was it for Rosa oh so I went out there and this is at the advent of referees and I don't care about whether you're losing never have I'm always down for the fight and the battle of fighting and Getting bloody sweaty Getting punched and punching people man. That's what it's all about for me and So I'm like, oh well get in there and we bang there. And we banged it out and they had three refs and they gave him the fight.

I've had people say, if you really watch it, you won that fight, don't care. They suckered me in with a little guy and then they throw in a hundred, 350 pound dude. Ended up kind of ruining the show because Coleman didn't have anybody to fight so he went out with Randleman and did like a wrestling expedition exhibition and

It was like why did you do that you didn't have to pull shamrocks guy out? It was behind the scenes kind of things that that were all prevalent at that point in time. Yeah, there was a lot of shenanigans in the early, early days. Oh yeah. Well, it was so loosely constructed. People have to realize, if you're looking at the UFC now, you're looking at W you know, WME owned UFC, gigantic money, huge fucking special effects screens, everything looks amazing, the sound's amazing.

Professional wrestling. Back then, I mean, UFC 12 was the first one that I did, which was Scott Ferozo's debut, and we did it in Dotham, Alabama, and it was like a high school auditorium or something. It wasn't a very big place. I remember the name Dotham Was that that was when they did an interview with me and it was supposed to be at a different show Somewhere and they got they got cancelled. So they put it up in Dotham

It was supposed to be in Buffalo, but it got banned from New York. So last minute we had to all fly to Alberta. So I was actually on the plane going to Dotham, or not Dotham, but to... Buffalo. Right. And they said, hey, there's been a change of plans, you gotta go to Dotham.

So I went to Dotham, and I was sitting in the two-story hotel, not really a hotel, but like a motel type thing. I looked out across the parking lot and there was a bar there. I said, what the hell? Why not? I ended up walking across the street and I was drinking at the bar with this crazy old country guy, old school duties, he's like a peanut farmer or something

like that. We got blasted. And he goes, come on, I'll take you to the arena. And I'm like, okay. So we get in this old pickup truck and he turns the key and it sounds like a dragster. And I got Hillbilly Heyman or whatever driving this thing. And we drive to the arena and I'm like, no, no, no. I'm supposed to do an interview. He ends up parking on the island, a grassy island.

He drove up the curb. I stumbled in there and David Isaacs is like, oh my god. What's going gonna happen next? They got banned and then I showed up out of my mind And I think there might be a clip of me all drunk saying stuff I don't There's a bunch of those clips How old were you with your first UFC fight 30 years old.

And did you have any competitive fights other than wrestling matches? Did you do any amateur fights or anything? Well, um... You kind of wasn't around back then, right? I, I, no, there was no real fighting. You only did it in the street. And back in those days, I had wrestled. And then on my 19th birthday, I was hoping to go on. I had one year at wrestling in junior college,

and a dumb drunk friend of mine drove into a light pole on my birthday. That's the why my teeth got all knocked out. And it also put a gash right underneath my knee and mangled my knee on my left knee. And so my wrestling, I came back like halfway, maybe a third of the way into the season. And I just could, I didn't have enough time to get whatever. It's all written meaning spiritually. And so I didn't perform the way I wanted to perform my sophomore year. I did not continue. No one was interested in me.

So the whole time as a young man, I wanted to box. And my mother said, absolutely not. Not the CTE and everybody boxes is stupid and you're not going to do that. And I'm like, oh man. So I didn't have anything to do. I was 18 years old and I said, you know what? I'm going to box. And the same guy that, it was back when Mike Tyson was on fire and he was the baddest man on the planet. And I was a young man, I go, not my planet. And so, you know, he would obviously kill me in boxing, but there's not a boxing ring

on every corner. And so, I was all fired up with that. So same guy that I worked for at the clothing company, where the cut and sew type thing was for medical clothing. He lived up San Luis Obispo way and he started boxing. And we were at a, you know, just like what you would think going into a boxing gym and learning how to box. And I go, man, I want to box. And he said, well, come on up and I'll introduce you to my trainer.

And maybe, you know, anyways, that got the ball started rolling basically. So went up to San Luis Obispo and there's a boxing gym just outside of there, a Tascadero or something like that. And so I went to the gym and it's like you see these reels where these guys all they you learn a skill like boxing and then you somebody that comes in that's a complete novice has no clue of what's going on. And they take advantage of these people. Oh, you think you're tough? You want to box?

Well, if you don't know how to box. So that was the vibe when I went into the boxing gym. I go, hey, yeah, I want to box. Yeah, sure. I'll do this. And he goes, are you sure? Oh, yeah. So they go, well, you want to spar? And they're all snickering. You want to spar? And I'm like, yeah, isn't

that what we're in here for? Isn't that what you do? And they're like, oh, no, you got to, you have to learn. And I'm like, okay okay so they got like all kind of like chuckling going oh he wants to spar and so they went and got a mouthpiece from a local like what do you call those stores sporting goods store and it comes back and they were trying to melt it in coffee and all that kind of stuff and so This guy's got a name very big name from the 70s and boxing and I don't need to talk about his family has a big name and Can't say his name?

This is no point in it yes I could but you know I was training with this guy and he did this guy I have it on videotape and all that kind of stuff so it's not like I'm making up stories and I'm the antithesis of trying to get myself over I try to just go no no no you know so I get in there and I go and they're all like oh this is gonna be great and this guy is a heavyweight and he had like eight professional fights and I believe they thought they were gonna use his name and push him and get him some money somehow. And so I'm like, okay. I go, like they, I put boxing gloves on and hit the bag

and played around and sparred with people, but I'm like, okay, this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna do it. Let's see. Yeah, and I knocked the living snot out of him. I just. Really? Yeah, I just said, fuck snot out of him. Really? Yeah, I just said, fuck it. Can you cuss on this or whatever?

Yeah, you can cuss. But I said, okay. I wasn't sparring, like skillfully boxing. I was like, let's go. And we went. And you had already had a bunch of street fights. Yes. And you knew how to hit things. Yeah.

And power is something you either have or you don't have. And you've always had crazy power. So if someone underestimates you and someone's thinking, look at this guy. So they let their guard down, get a real little relaxed, think they're just going to tee off on you. No, he thought he was going to hand it to me. Yeah. And I was like, all right, you'll see what's gonna happen. And I said, this is gonna be a street fight. And I knocked a live in daylight.

Like I said, I have it on video tape. And that guy was filming at the guy from the clothing store. Anyways, he, Sport Master. Yeah, but yeah. And so he's in the back going, oh my God, oh my God. I enlightened him that I didn't need to know the skill of boxing to take out somebody that had eight professional fights in boxing. I pretty much handed it to him. So what did you do? take out somebody that had eight professional fights in boxing.

I pretty much handed it to him. So what did you do? You didn't box them? You just clinched, got close to them, and just started playing? No, it was on. I just started throwing. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Really?

Right down the middle. Let's go. So did you always, you just always had skill with your hands? Like, I mean, that's pretty impressive for an eight eight fighting professional boxer I put my chin down and I don't tell stories I said if you if you want to get a lie detector and a certified guy I will take this and you don't have to tell that to me. I know you have I've known you forever So I'll just tell anybody else tank Tank says it as it is, always.

You always have. Even when you lost, you were like, that guy fucked me up. That guy kicked my ass. You were sitting, you got molested by the lead singer from Queen. Freddie Mercury. My dead separate. He was slapping me. My dead separate beat you.

He was bitch slapping me. You had the best attitude about both winning and losing if you lost you were very Self-deprecating you always had fun with things. Yes. That's not the end of the world You were a great guy to be around man because it was a goddamn party I mean, I don't know if you remember but we got hammered a couple of times There's a few different times at different hotels Yes, where you and I got drunk and you with your whole crew there were all a bunch of psychos. It was just like being around like a lot of pit bulls, like

jacked up pit bulls, like ready to go. But it was fun, man. You always brought a party. You were having a good fucking time. You were having a good fucking time fighting and you were, and that's what made you a legend a lot because you were, you know, everybody thought that the skilled martial artist was always going to beat the fighter, right? But there was a, you were a skilled martial artist, but you were kind of more of a fighter, just a dude who fucks people up.

And for you to just be going out there and knocking people out, you became the biggest star of the UFC, even without winning it. You know, I mean, you beat a lot of good guys but your power and your attitude like when Matua went out and you did a little fucking dance like everybody because it was everybody thought martial arts was supposed to be bow and you know sensei and spirituality and meditating in the river and You were out there getting wild Matua Was in the river, and you were out there getting wild. Matua was, metaphorically, martial arts in my head. See, all these people running around, and martial arts is martial arts, don't get me wrong. It works. It's a skill. But fighting

is... Chaos. it's a skill. But fighting is chaos. Yeah, but I coined this phrase, I believe. Anyways, fighter's fortitude. And that is where because fighting does not, it's not a skill that you learn and you become tough. Hoist Gracie is not tough because he knows Jiu Jitsu. He's a tough man. And all these guys that fight in the UFC are tough men, not because they know skill. Like these people, I see you getting an arm bar. Who cares? Anybody that sings skill is not a fighter.

You're a pussy, frankly. You sit around and go, I can do this and I can do that. That doesn't matter. It's how tough you are. Your fighter's fortitude. When someone's got a thumb in your eye socket or taking a big bite out of your back and how you react and what you do from that. That's what fighter's fortitude is not like, Oh, well, he's got his thumb in my eye.

Maybe I could arm bar him or put him in a triangle. That doesn't save you. Fighting is emotional. It's not about skill. It's what is inside your head the heart you have and What you need to do to get things done to beat the opponent? Hopefully that's thinking the same thing you're thinking and that is I'm gonna get to this point where I can kill this person or Let or kill him. But basically, fighting is to a point where,

in the street anyways, and everybody that I beat up was trying to do the same thing to me in the street. They were trying to beat me up and get to the point where they could make the decision of killing me. And that's the whole point of a street fight. And it's not about, oh, I got better skill than you. That's the difference between a street fighter and somebody that goes to the gym and learns how to throw a correct punch or a submission hold that's going to save your ass. You can learn those things.

You can't be tough by learning those things. You can become tougher by learning those things. If you're a tough guy and you learn skills, that makes you tougher. Like Hoist Gracie, he's a tough man. But that guy's got skills up the yin yang and jujitsu. That makes him even tougher. But he has the mental fortitude to keep it together

in the chaos. Yeah. Fighter's fortitude. And some people, even very skillful people, for some reason, don't have that. Yes. There's moments we've all seen where you get this guy who's like, especially a lot of guys who are gym heroes There's a bunch of guys that in the gym. They look sensational

They look like this guy's gonna be a world champion. Keep an eye on them You watch them sparring you watch them hitting mitts You're like this guy's insane, right? And then they fall they they they maybe reach like 30% of their potential when they fight You could see the panic in them and those and they don't have it in their head yeah they don't have something the thing that some guys have like a max Holloway has that he'll fight to the end to the end fighters for there's zero quit the quit is not in there you can go searching around for forever you're never gonna find it and then then there's some guys, even though they're really

talented, you can get to a point where they'll break and they'll just try to survive. And there's a difference. And it's the great ones, all like John Jones, like so many of these guys, like they find a way to win and they never give up. No matter how chaotic it gets, no matter how bad they're losing, they find a way. 100%. Leon Edwards in the fifth round against a tomorrow

Usman perfect example he's getting just he's getting taken down and manhandled and he finally lands a head kick in the fifth round there you go becomes a hero and it's all fighters for the team yeah it's about being a tough guy yeah you can see it in that fight have you seen that Usman Leon Edwards fight? I haven't seen it. It's fucking amazing because his coach is sensational and his coach is screaming, Don't let him bully you son! You know, they're from England and the Rocky music is playing, there's a clip of it online.

You get goosebumps every time. Every time I see it. Every time I see it I get goosebumps. It's like that thing that is the difference between a fighter and just someone who's skilled That was something that you I think introduced more than anybody in the early days of the sport This is it you want to see this because this is so fucking good, man But come on man, what's wrong with you? You're too fucking dead and you gotta pull this shit out of the father. Come on man, you guys man, come on. You got me so screwed up.

Damn it, that's ruining it. What, the music? I can't even hear it. Yeah, but it's part of the fun thing. Yeah. That his fucking coach is sensational. sensational. So they're doing it this way to avoid copyright strikes from the UFC, they're just showing photographs of it, but it's the kind of person who never gives up, the kind of person who finds a way, really knows how to actually, it's not just skill,

there's another element and that's what you're talking about if you Put it to UFC six that was the awakening of the guillotine choke because rest you had Jiu-jitsu and then wrestlers came along and started handing it to the submission jjitsu guys. And then UFC 6 came along and they came up with the guillotine. Now, Oleg got the guillotine on me twice, and I fought myself out of it. I've never timed it or whatever, but it was a while. I was losing consciousness. I was losing consciousness.

I was seeing black, but I pulled myself out. In fact, he brought up the fishhooks. When I finally, the first time he got it and I pulled my head out and he was laying there and I'm like, what are you going to do now? And then I reached down and fishhooked him and started banging his head on the floor. When you look back at yourself then does that even seem like you? Yeah, why not? Of course it is you but I mean the the young hulking you smashing guys. This was also just the one round correct? Yes. A 17 minute round? Yeah there's no rounds. Was it did they have a time limit on any of the fights? No and I would have won that fight

if Big John McCartney wouldn't have stuck his his melon in between us and break us up. You know that's how you were talking about how they fix the fights and everything. He broke this fight up. There were no rules not supposed to do. Look, he's breaking us up. Why did he do that? Why did they do that? Yeah. Were people booing? Yeah. That was all John McCartney McCartney. He why did he break us up? I? Don't know like what were the rules back then as there were no rules

I'm all you all they had to do is give him a track Starting gunning I could stand there and go boom and that that's all he needed to do He just had to start the fight he he and so this is this restart was just Completely because of him. Yes. Yeah, McCarthy. Yes. He's he's corrupt and he's a crook his idea of what he thinks fighting is and He's a full-on old leg. Oh submission guy cuz he's all into technique I don't know this he's never said it to me, but he's all into technique I don't know this he's never said it to me but he's all into skill and everything else he has no respect

for fighters fortitude or anything he does no I think he does well I mean I think you have like a personal dispute with him but I like Big John and you might like him but he leveraged his made-up persona Big John to get me kicked out of the show him and his wife they got me literally kicked out of the show. They kicked out the UFC? Yeah. Really? Yeah. What year was this? Very early. Why would they want to get you kicked out of the UFC? Because he does not like me. He's a cop. And he doesn't like the fact that I'm probably, in his eyes,

a thug. But the point is, he has a B in his mind. He's never liked me. He was a Jiu Jitsu student before he started in the thing. For the Gracies, they didn't have a ref, so Art Davy goes, hey, what about that big guy, Big John? And then Big John was a cop and everything, and he did background checks on me before I got into the UFC.

Like, oh yeah, no, this guy really, he's got a record. And he did background checks on me before I got into the UFC. Like, oh yeah, no, this guy really, he's got a record. I've been arraigned at least seven times for beating people up. And shit was hitting the fan. It was getting bigger and more and more. You're going to get in trouble pretty soon. Thank God I had a great attorney. He was a guy that could point out the truth

and people would see that and the DA would go, okay, community service, I'd go do that at the boxing gym. So anyway, so John checked into it and goes, No, this guy really is a street fighting legend like Tank Murdoch. And obviously the guy's dad was a was a cop and that underlying it doesn't matter. But he did not like the fact that I came along after the Gracys because he was like a stooge for Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and the whole nine yards and when I came along I kind of said no no no no I fighting is emotional it's not a skill it's not a skills match. It's what you have in your head. And he obviously

doesn't have anything in his. But so at Puerto Rico, I used to go around to dojos and go in there after I'd cruise around drinking a 12-pack in my van and we'd pull up to dojos and walk in there and go, who does anybody want to fight? And nobody did. And so I lost my train of thought on that. But oh, this it. Okay so when I was I was working out with weights and I and I didn't I wasn't a strong day for me so I got you have to know when to say no not lifting today. So I felt compunction and I needed to go do something. I said let's go check this jujitsu place out They had flyers at the Westminster boxing gym where I was boxing After I left that Bakersfield thing so we go in there and all the other Kung-fu and Wing chungs and all that stuff not no one ever wanted to fight me

And I go let's go check out this Jiu-Jitsu thing, see if it's real or not. And this guy's supposed to be a world champion and all this. And since it's out there, I'll say who it was, but it was Alon Gohs. And so he's supposed to be some world champion, this and that. and at this time

We're totally green to having really respect for jiu-jitsu Or anything like that and I was with Paul Herrera and Eddie Reese who are very accomplished wrestlers And I go let's go check it out. I'm not lifting. Let's go see what if this stuff is for real So we go into the jitsu thing. It was a little bit of a drive. We get in there and I say, hey, we want to roll around with you and see if we can check this stuff out. And they're Portuguese.

Demonstration! Demonstration! And I'm like, oh, what the fuck is this? Anyways, so one of the guys goes in the back. Demonstration demonstration and I'm like, oh what the fuck is this? Anyways, so one of the guys goes in the back I guess they put cameras up in these little mirrored boxes that one-way mirror things and so Eddie gets up there and He he's a little guy and so it didn't take him very long to Tap him out with like an arm thing.

And then Paul, who's an All-American from Nebraska wrestler, bigger guy, 190ish, he gets in there and I'm like, what the hell's going on? Because they're lasting and lasting and he's on his back. And at that time, I was like, what the hell, what are you on your back for? It's stupid. You know? Yeah.

Totally ignorant of what was going on. Yeah. And I'm like, holy fuck, he ended up tapping him out. And I'm like, wow, he made short work of Eddie and he tapped out Paul and had respect for Paul for his wrestling abilities and where he'd gone and trained and wrestled for. And I was like, holy smokes. Well, I'm rather large and very powerful and how long goes is not. And so I go, okay.

Although they were starting on their knees and all that kind of stuff. And I'm like, whatever. So I get on him and I had a, because a medical place, the cutting soap place, I had a scrub on. So I'm on top of him and he grabs like a nurse's scrub because they don't rip or anything like that and he does like an X on his thing and he starts

choking me. And I look at him like kind of rolled my eyes like really? Like I went like that like fist on both sides of his face, you know, and he's like, oh, okay And so we rolled around rolled around rolled around and then he finally got to an arm lock And like I said, I was I was doing curls with like 120 pound dumbbells and stuff like that and so I Picked him up basically He was like a foot off of the mat and I raised my right hand up and made a fist like, you want me to fall down on his eyes got huge as the moon.

No, no, no, no, no, no. And I'm like, okay, so I let him down and let it go. And he was like, oh, like I've had enough of this big guy here. And so we left and whatever goes on in somebody's head like, oh, who's that guy almost narcissistic way. Oh, I go to him in arm lock. I would have I would have used them for it doesn't matter yeah there would have been a whole bunch of bad for him getting slammed yeah so Puerto Rico I don't know Paul was fighting in that show well that show it was David versus Goliath there.

Oh, that's right. That's right. Did he fight Big Daddy? Yeah. Yeah. And Big Daddy had a videotape of him, so he knew exactly what to do with that high crotch. That was all stage, not stage, but prepare. Prepare.

Yeah. And so, a line goes, comes up afterwards, oh, this is all the way a full circle back to John So Alon goes comes up after Paul gets elbowed My big John didn't stop it Who knows I know but anyways, so He starts mouthing off. He must have had too much alcohol or something. And I'm like, who do you think you're talking to?

And like, really? You were going to go there? OK. So he had like him and all his friends were behind him. So I popped him and was going after him. And me and Eddie were fighting the whole contingency of Brazilian fighters in the audience. And then we go to the back and our old school warrior and like no one sends you to the hospital

and I'm telling Paul, hey, fuck that. You're not going to the hospital. You don't do that." And he's like, huh? And there was a Dr. Istrigal and John McCartney and his wife, Elaine, who is Karen. I think her name should be Karen. Elaine McCartney. Anyways, she comes running up and starts pointing her finger in my face and saying all this.

Get the hell out of here or I'll kill you. Just hyperbole in the moment, charged type thing. They try to make a huge move out of that and then also that's how you get kicked out and then John's like telling Bob oh I'm gonna quit and Elaine's gonna quit and if you don't kick him out that's why I didn't go to the show and mind you I was the personality of that whole show at that time. And I think they went to Detroit or something like that after that words. And everyone's like, where's Tank at? There's the show.

And they, Bob's like, we got to fix this. And so somehow a letter came up of apology to their leverage of they were going to quit. I'm like, who cares if they quit? He's a referee. He pulls the trigger on a gun and then he affects fights by breaking people up and giving people chances and everything else. He's a corrupt person. And who cares? But I guess Bob was leaning into the fact like, oh, he's developed a personality for himself. So anyways, we're gonna have this letter made and We'll send it to the McCartney's and then they can be soothed and then I'll be allowed to come back and That was all around the same time

with the feroz Oh fight with my knee messed up and Bob being the Slickster that he is but don't you think it's also just possible at Jerry Bolander got hurt because he fought too, right? He fought a fight first, right? It's possible, but I I'm kind of A cynic I see where you would feel that way. And I think in the early days, you know, one of the things that Dana White does a really good job about is like, he kind of, he lets, he talks to everybody, have conversations with people, sit people down, talk to them, explain, this is great. This is not so great. You know, this is what we think we could do with you.

Like no, back then it was chaos. Yes, it was chaos. Yes, absolutely. It was chaos. And a referee today, they're allowed to stand people up. Right. But back then, that wasn't. No, no, no, no, no.

I understand completely what you're saying. Yeah. But back in those days, those guys set up a lot of stuff. What'd they set up? All right, it won't come to me right off, but I will tell you. Okay, I want to put you on the spot. So you think that they had people that they wanted to win so they made things work a particular way? Well, like the Don Fry fight, him fighting is the Him fighting is the people comment. It's not his friend who

Mark Hall that guy went out and did the job for fry. It looks like he did He well no he did yeah, it looks like it when you watch the fire He did and they fought before too. Yeah, he just went out there and fell down and then why you know regardless of how easy my fight before is, mentally, it's a whole different ball of wax. Yeah, it's a different ball of wax. One guy goes through a war and one guy goes through a real easy fight. Yeah, emotionally though, in your head, like, oh, you got to get all ramped up to go. Especially if you had a real close fight and your legs got beat up.

There's a lot of things that can happen. One guy can knock a guy. The tournaments are so crazy. Because one guy, it's almost like it's better than not fighting. Because he lands one punch, knocks the guy out. Like, oh my god, I already won. I want to fight. I know I'm performing well.

I didn't get hurt at all. And now I'm loose. My brain's loose. And then you could go through three rounds of hell with some fucking psychopath where you're barely Surviving both of you and you get to the final round you like or whatever it was back Then was one round but you you get to the final end of it and you're like, oh Jesus I gotta do this one more time with a guy who's fresh Right. Yeah, and if you can rig that and if you can if you want you can set a bracket up

I'm not accusing them doing that. What's that what same same thing with that Anthony Macias guy that fought Oleg before me Oleg went out Oleg went out and choked out his first opponent with a guillotine choke real fast and then he fought Anthony Macias that winks at him right before the fight. They wink. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, like, hey, hey, hey. That obvious? Where do you want me to fall down?

And I fought the two biggest guys ever fought in the UFC, a 400-pound guy in the 6'5", whatever, 300 or 280 280 whatever size you want to make real fights not some guy that's out there laying down going okay the early days it was so it was so loose and you never knew when it was gonna go away because it was already getting suspended from cable cable cable kicked it off you could only get it off DirecTV back then yeah with John McCain yeah John McCain and John McCain allegedly was doing something for Bud Light so he was working with Bud Light and Bud Light wanted boxing right it's kind of you know the whole the whole world was conspiring to keep MMA from flourishing back then. Absolutely. It was a real big

deal. They would disparage it every since funny fucking there's a funny video of Bob Arum talking about it. They're rolling around on the ground like homosexuals. I saw that. Yes. I was laughing about that too. It's amazing. It's amazing because he's such an old school guy. Right. For him saying that, it's just, it's very funny. Immediately I was like, what's his angle? Why is he saying that? And he's just trying to say boxing.

He's just silly because boxing's awesome. I love boxing. Oh yeah, me too. Doesn't mean the UFC's not better. Oh no, it's a skill. Yeah. Yeah, boxing is an amazing skill. It's an amazing skill and it's a huge part of MMA. I mean, if you can't throw a punch, you really can't

win. But it's a different thing. You guys are in, it's a game, it's a fighting game, whereas MMA is a fight. Well, boxing can be a fight too, but it's so, the rules are so specific, so limited. Well, when I went out and boxed the a task of Darrow thing I came back here and went to Westminster boxing club I believe it is anyways um I had I was fortunate I walked in and Ty rel Biggs was boxing and his trainer Matt Kir Hart, I walked up and I was a white heavyweight and every back in those days like, oh, I'll train you, I'll train you. And I'm like, okay, he didn't have time for me. So I was like, okay, I'm slowly learning boxing and his underling was on charge of me and I go when we get a

fight and he's like no you don't just fight you got to learn how to box I'm like no not me I'm gonna fight he goes well there's a show in six weeks in here and I go that perfect I'll do that then you You can't just do that. And I'm like, no, I can do that. And so, this is also on video. I fought some guy that had been boxing for like three years and I knocked the stuffing out of him. His mouthpiece went flying out of his mouth. And at that time, the guy that ran the gym was named Noy Cruz, and he was the trainer

for Carlos Palamino. Old school Mexican six foot two guy, but knew his boxing skills like No Tomorrow, and he went up to Mac and he said hey that guy's got something you can't train you guys can be in here forever but I want to train that guy in Maxwell I don't have time for him I'm with Tyrell he goes we'll split him you know whatever so from that point on after that first fight I started rolling with Noe, not rolling but boxing with him and he's the one that got me sit down on my punches and all Mexican style hard punches inside to the body, uppercuts, all that kind of stuff. Then I used to he used to swing those big old leather bags,

they're hanging from chains. It was like an old warehouse that had been there probably since the early sixties. He had swing the bag and it come back and I would just turn through and the whole gym would shake and his eyes would get all big and go, ah. Knowing he was a great guy. Do you ever wonder what would have happened if you went and pursued just professional boxing? Yes.

If it was a big, white heavyweight with knockout power like you, that could have been very marketable. That was the whole idea, and they were all into that. And I remember, because I would show up to the boxing gym with black eyes and cuts on my face after every weekend, pretty much. And in fact, on my trilogy, Street Warrior is what he used to call me. Oh, the street warrior. And he'd go, Oh, what do you do now? And I go, No, I if only if only you you don't understand if they only

had a fighting show with real fighting, not this boxing stuff. And he would just look at me and shake his big smile and just shake his head like you're crazy and It happened it was awesome, how did you find out about it? Well, I was driving I used to work at a liquor store when I was going to college and Supplied my habit. But so I was looking through the Playboys and I saw an advertisement for Ultimate Fighting. I don't know what it was one with the tooth fell out. That was the first one. Yeah. Yeah. And so I had you know I was

living with two other guys, pirated cable, he climbed up the telephone pole type thing. And so I invited my dad over and I said, hey man, you gotta check this ultimate finding. I got, I don't know if it's real or not. I suspect it's not. I think it's probably just an offshoot of professional wrestling. He's like, okay, I'll come over. So he came over and we're sitting there, you

know, drinking beers, watching the tube. And he came out with that grass skirt type thing. And I'm like, oh, see. And then I don't know who it was. Gerard Pardeau or whatever. Yeah, Gerard Pardeau or whatever. Yeah, Gerard Pardeau. Yeah, and he kicked him in the face and his teeth went fine. I go, oh, yes, this is real. It's real. Yeah, I can't believe it, man. This is going to be so awesome.

So how did you contact them? Like, how do you wind up getting in? Well, I was in jail for beating up this. Cop son. Right. I was in jail for beating up this... Cop son. Right? And I got work release from that. From probation, I did like three weeks in jail on a farm and then I went to like a probation apartment thing.

I went to work and came back. And that's when my friend friend who worked for his dad at the medical clothing company goes hey you know that guy chemo that works at the bar and I'm like yeah he goes you got to know him he wears like the jean thing and and he and I'm like yeah and he goes he goes, you know, Joson, I knew Joson from the boxing gym. He goes, they fought in that show. And I'm like, well, yeah. I go, why is that guy fighting in that show?

Because he would always, I had quite the reputation back in those days. He would come find me in the line and go, Mr. Ebitzer, this way, and cut me in front of everybody and walked me in. Is this Joe's song? No, it was Kimo. It was Kimo.

And I was, hey, thanks, Kimo. That's as much as I knew of him, like when he was telling me, you know that guy. And I'm like, hmm. Anyway, so it was Kimo. And he goes, this guy, Kimo, if that guy's in it, why can't you be in it? That's what I was saying make it happen and he started calling Art Davy on the phone and arts like yeah yeah yeah and then he goes no you don't understand this guy is the real

deal from the streets man everybody knows who he is and and he's like yeah yeah we hear this story all the time. And he's all not from this guy. And then it was back in the day when he had like a table like this with the phone and the speakerphone on it. And so he goes, tell that guy, because I was sitting in the back, he goes, tell him I got some guy that's like six foot eight three hundred pounds that wants to fight him and We'll see you next week at this time It was raining So we ended up going to Art Davies office in Torrance right around the corner. I heard from the Gracie

Academy I guess they call it and so I it was raining and I had like a, it was back in the days when they had brown paper bags for grocery bags. So I put my high top basketball shoes in there and like stretchy clothes that you would wear. I had it all folded up and I walked in sitting here like we are now. He's talking and he's like, okay. And this is before they came up with the tank

idea. I said, I don't know, I'm a wrestler. So he goes, okay, well, what are we getting back to you? And he goes, oh, by the way, what's in that bag? I said, well, you said you had somebody that was like six, eight, 300 pounds that you wanted to fight. And he goes, what? I go, yeah, on the phone, you said that. And he goes, you'd fight somebody? And I goes, yeah, I don't go to jail. And he goes, you're crazy. What? You're just crazy, man. And I'm like, no.

I'm down for fighting any time you want to do it. And he's like, oh, I just shook his head and we walked out. And like I said, see, did we go over the point of going where I got kicked out before even I got in? No, we didn't talk about that. So they found out about your record before you got in? Is that what it was? No, no, no.

You did something? Yes. Okay. Now this is, I don't know, I've never talked about this publicly, I don't think. So this is why I told the central casting mafia wannabe guy that they kicked me out. This is why they kicked me out. This is why they kicked me out. So they gave me a one sentence paper that says David Abbott's gonna be in the next show Whatever and I didn't realize that it had to be six because the Gracie's owned according to my

Calculations the first five shows, before Bob took over. Bob Meyer was. For six. And so, lost my train of thought for a second, it'll come back. So he gave me a piece of paper, and it says, you're gonna be in the show, not five, but six.

And I'm like, oh man, and you know, you're a young man, and your patience is like, I can't wait that long, I need like tomorrow, you know? Right. And I was like, whatever, so I go, okay, work with it. Well, you can train. And so, work with it. Well, you can train. And so a wrestler that was, you know, wrestling, everybody knows the world and college wrestling. And this guy worked for a volleyball company, clothing company called Club Sportswear.

And they used to sponsor volleyball players. And so Eddie knew him. I think they used to live together. Somebody lived with him that knew him. And he called up and said, hey, Dave's going to be in that UFC show. And so he goes, OK. And he goes, well, you guys want to sponsor him? And I don't know anything about anything.

Sponsor, whatever. And he goes, let me ask my boss. And he goes, yeah, sure. You know, this is new. He goes, yeah, we'll give him some clothes to wear and all that kind of stuff. And he goes, well, he wanted an airplane ticket to go back and watch the show. I think it was UFC 5 in Charlotte.

And so he sends me a ticket and I'm like, wow, this is, you know, I'm a kid. In my head I was a a kid but not chronologically. I was a forever college student. And so I'm flying there and I'm like, oh man, this is so cool. These people that do this for me and they gave me like bags full of clothes. I was like, wow, even socks and everything like that. It was like crazy. You know, that's where I was in that time in life.

And so we get there and I had a big club bag and they go, yeah, just try to get on TV, man, just so we can see our stuff. I get to Charlotte and I walk in and it was like the lobby of a hotel. It was like a two-story hotel but it was a nicer, like a suite kind of hotel. It wasn't dumpy. And everybody in the lobby had their desk out and at that time it was martial arts and it was Kung Fu Frank over there and

whomever Jiu Jitsu Jeff over there and I'm just like in there walking around like they're Steven Seagal with their chip on their shoulder and their chest out. I'm thinking, I'm like, what the heck is this, man? Are you kidding me? It looked like a swap meet for martial art wannabes. I don't know. And all these people are walking around like, this is before UFC, even people knew. They're like, wow. I can remember some guys. I was

just like, are you kidding me? This is like insane. These people are like just playing the role. And so I just walked on by and I was like, wow, I have a room and I went to the room and I'm like, wow, my first time really being somewhere by myself. And I'm fine with being by myself, but I was like, what the hell am I going to do? So there was a UFC office in the hotel. So that's my first run-in with Karen McCartney And I walked in there and she's like, are you what you want? I'm like Wow, I was like hi, you know whatever and

Dave the guy that that that set it up From the clothing company or the medical company said, oh, you're going to be all set. You're going to backstage passes. And I go, good, because I want to know what I want to do. And I lay of the land, you know? So she's like, oh, yeah, whatever. And I'm like, OK.

Whatever this means, having a bad day or something. And so I go, hmm, what do I do? So I walked down to the lobby and I said, hey man, is there a bar around here? And he goes, oh yeah, right across the street over there, just down in there, in the highway there. I go, perfect. So I walk over there and everybody's partying and I sit at the bar and

everybody's like oh what are you here for? I go you know that UFC thing they're having at the Coliseum or something like that. Oh yeah that fighting thing. Are you a fighter? And I'm like going on and not technically really a fighter. I go, well, I'm not fighting in this show, but I got a piece of paper saying, you know, a contract saying that I'm gonna be in the next one. So I can, you know, you partied with me. I like to have a good time. So it doesn't take long before the whole bar

is rocking and rolling around me and we're having fun. Everybody's like, woohoo man, tank! And I'm like, cringing, you know, like, uh, tank. And they're like, yeah! And I'm like, oh yeah, woohoo! And so we partied it up and had a good time and So End up Going back with these guys to this like a suite hotel. So there was like a Room like a living room and then you had your bedroom type thing. And we're partying it up and it doesn't take long before security comes and knocks on doors. And people are complaining about you guys

and God, I'm probably swinging off the couch doing all sorts of crazy stuff. And I'm like, okay, well, it turns out Meyerwitz is right across the hallway and I think he called. So that wasn't a good thing. And I'm like, okay, we'll keep it down. I don't even know who that Bob was.

Art Davy was the big guy, and so he was reporting himself as. So I'm like, oh, whatever. And so toned it down. So go back the next day and it all starts up all over again and I'm like yeah let's go and they're going hell yeah we're going we're going to the fight yeah let's go so we end up I go I got these backstage passes and stuff so I don't know if I can sit with you guys so they

got tickets in there in this little cubicle block of seats just up on the first rail They're sitting there and I go okay and I go hey, there's that art guy. I Go hey art and he's running around like he's Don King in a tuxedo And I'm like, hey art art art., hey you got my passes and stuff like that. And he's looking at me, he's giving me like the cold shoulder like not even knowing he sees me but like oh shit I don't want to talk to that guy. And I'm like, why is he being evasive? And finally I called him over and I started putting two and two together. Like you said, I'm kind of cynical, a conspiracy theorist.

He would walk around the hotel like he was King Kong, like I'm the man type thing. And right when I went in to get tickets and Lane and them are all in there. He's giving these two young girls these laminates and Gave me the quick eye like what the hell is he looking at like, you know sketchy look and When I got to the show when they just gave me paper tickets. And those two girls were running around with the laminates in the office.

So I went two and two together. He gave them my laminates trying to get over with the girls and just gave me some tickets. Oh. So now, just add a little alcohol a little conspiracy thoughts going on in my head and I'm going that little worm I Go. Oh, I know what's going on And so I go I go so you were supposed to get laminates, right? But those girls got the laminates when I went in to get those girls that he had just met. Yes

They were just groupie. Okay ring rats kind of thing anyways, so He I'm like hey art art art. He finally walked over I go what the fuck dude I go you give me these paper tickets. I go I can't see anything I just want wanna walk around. And in the back of my mind, I wanted to get their clothes on camera.

I was gonna do like a cameo walk by, you know? Yeah. I was a kid. Anyways, our young, our ignorant, or whatever, unwise. And so I'm walking and he's like, oh, I don't stay, give me the shrug. And he walks off in his little tuxedo and I'm steaming. And so that goes down and the first fights go down

and one of the girls, there was like a group of maybe 10 people, he goes, hey tank, you know in the Southern thing. She goes, hey Tank, you know, in the southern thing. She goes, I don't know. You know, I was expecting something else. It is kind of boring to be honest with you. And I'm like, like I was part of the show, you know. And I'm like, yeah, I understand.

I think, I think Gracie or Oleg or somebody fought and they were doing submission and it was boring and and so I go let me tell you something I promise you I Promise you it's not gonna be anything like this. It's not gonna be laying on the ground Rolling around when I fight I promise you that you have to believe me and she goes well I hope so because this you know I can't get into my accent I hope so because this is boring and I'm like no it's not gonna be anything like that when I get in there trust me and so that was the tone that was set. More beers, I was drinking beer at that time.

Maybe I was drinking some vodka then. So we get back after the show at the bar and I remembered. Everybody's sitting around talking about it. Okay, you know and I went hey You know what I forgot There's a cocktail party going on My god what I go. Yeah, there's a cocktail party going on my my guy told me about it Like I had back pay back, you, passes and the whole nine yards, I go, but there's a cocktail party with everybody there.

Anyways, so I go, let's go. And they're going, well, we're not. How are we going to get in? I go, you're fucking with me, man can get in don't worry so I went over there I had an entourage by that time believe it or not I wasn't even fight and we walked in and you know that typical banquet type stuff with the silverware and the road roast beef and rolls and cocktails and so I was drinking and drinking and drinking and Didn't take long before I started telling them

That they were a bunch of pussies and that they didn't know how to fight they don't even what the hell's going on wait till I I get in there. And Jim Brown, the football player, was an announcer then. And I think he came up in a fatherly way, like, hey, calm down. Tell me what to calm down. I'll tell you what to calm down. I'll tell you what to calm down. I didn't have any respect at that time. And so things went on like that and I ended up taking Jim Brown's, what do you call those things like a Derby?

His hat off? Yeah, but what's it, what are they called? I don't know. It's like a hat. I know it is. Yeah. The word escapes me right now. It's beret. He had a beret that he used to wear all the time. And you took it off his head? I took it off his head and we'll hey young man and I turned around and I threw it at him I flung it like a frisbee and it hit him in his chest and he caught it and he looked at me angrily Lee and I was joking around having fun that's all and that might just be the the top the cherry on top but the whole behavior was that the whole night and we left because it was closing down and And I had my fill of food.

And we went back to my room and restarted the party up again. And then I left and came back. And they never called us back or anything. And I was like, oh, hey going hey man what the hell's going on and he's all what did you do there and I'm like this is me I go no he was shaking his head and then that's when art called him and said hey that guy is a maniac he's not not only allowed and to fight in the show he's not allowed to Called him and said hey that guy is a maniac He's not not only allowed and to fight in the show. He's not allowed to be at the show

No f in way that guy. He's crazy and I remember my friend hanging the phone up and looking at me and Slowly just shaking his head like you blew it dude. So how'd you get back in? I told you from the guy from the bar. Okay so that so they discounted all the things that happened in the past. That guy made a phone call. Well it's a smart thing to do. I mean regardless of someone's maniac. It's maniac sport. You just go like well better security that Okay, the lead up into meeting that guy that got me in a professional wrestling guy. Yeah Okay, so I get this

This phone call you're out boom boom, and we go to this bar. And it's not a nice, it's a bar that normal people don't go to. And so, and we're in there, and there's, I told Paul and Eddie that I didn't want to go there. I just go I don't I don't want to trouble and I was a well oil being kicked out of my dream and So they talked me into it And I go okay listen if anybody bothers me you guys have to take it take care of business

And no problem, and we were supposed to be in a wrestling room training and fighting but The wind got knocked out of our sails my sail, but they were in there for me and So we're in there and it's a seedy place and Seedy things happen This girl starts in with Paul. Paul disables her and she falls on the ground. Disables her? Well he foot swept her because she was clawed and it's a dirty, you know, it's a bad place. Anyways, so, so that Paul didn't beat up her boyfriend, I came up behind him and got double underhooks

underneath him from behind, and was pulling him back, and all of a sudden I hear this loud crack, and a light flash across my eyes. I'm like, what the fuck happened, you know? It was like, sounded like the jukebox machine got broke, you know the glass on it the hell happened man, and I Let go of Paul from pulling him back and I turn around and there's a guy with a broken pool cue

Standing there and Obviously I put two and two together put two and two together. Put two and two together and his eyes were like, oh that didn't go the way I planned because he's still standing here. And I don't know because I was knocked silly but I heard that he got hurt really bad. And that's why the bartender or bar owner wanted to extort money from me from having a tape of me beating up those guys. He's like, yeah, that guy came into my bar and I almost killed somebody and I have it on video tape.

Mm, I see. That's a long roundabout back to the story. Got it. Yeah. So it was a whole lot of fights and a whole lot of chaos. When you were competing, what kind of training were you doing if you were drinking that much? Oh, man.

See, I really like to address this. And everybody thinks, people don't think that I train. I ran a marathon. You think that you just get up someday and go, I'm gonna go run a marathon? Well, there's no way you didn't train. Right. Like you look at you, you were very strong.

You were obviously, you know, even though you were a big guy, your cardio wasn't that bad. You were definitely doing something. You try, try. Yeah. Yeah, no, you try, try fighting three times. On that day, the first UFC six, I believe I could beat any man, any man on earth that day. I was in my prime that day.

The only reason why I lost is because of big John McCartney and his Breaking up the fights. He should have never broke that fight Oh, did they break so there was no rule at all about standing people up? No, none I personally believe enough broken this down too many times to repeat it, but I'm gonna anyway I don't think they should ever stand people up. I think a person could take you down. A person could take you down and keep you down. Tough shit. Even if it's boring. Like the whole idea is like what's real. Take it away from me about McCartney affecting fights. The first fight they had, don't quote me on this because I'm not a historian, but I believe it was Boss Root

and Kevin Randleman. That was the first fight they had with judges. John McCartney got in there and broke that fight up twice so Boss could get back up and come back and fight him. Were there rules back then about standups? I don't know. I don't think so. That was an interesting fight. I think-

It was the first fight anybody ever won off their back, really. But no, he shouldn't have won. If you watch that fight, and I just watched it recently, Kevin Randleman kicked his ass, beat his ass severely, and John broke it up twice just so he could give Boss an advantage. A chance to get back up to his feet.

Yeah. And Boss is nothing more than a chrismatic, what, pancraze? Pancraze is fake. Listen to Ken Shamrock. He said it's fake. Well, at worst, at best, it was predetermined, as Ken said. I think there were some real fights, and I think this is true in all of Japan. There were some real fights, and there were some fixed fights. When Boss fought Funaki, watch that fight. He beat the fuck out of Funaki. That was a real fight. Yeah, I have I I Don't know if you seen that one, but it is not fake. He beats the fuck out of Funaki I mean, it's one of the worst beatings anybody's ever taken in pancreas His boss boss had figured out instead of slapping throw palms like punches

You know, well, I'm not gonna get like punches you know well I'm not gonna get a lot of people because I'm not this yeah like boss rootin was a bad man I think a boss room Tio Koshaka did you ever see that fight it's a skills fight and what have you. I did see the thing. T.O.S. Shukosaka was a very good fighter and that was not, I mean it was a skillful fight, but it was a brutal fight. But was that Pancrase?

No, that was UFC. UFC. That was his first fight in the UFC. I haven't seen it. He's had two fights in the UFC. I think he had two fights in the UFC. And in my opinion, I just watched it. He lost a random. So he's one on one. Maybe he had more. Did he have more than two fights in the UFC and in my opinion, I just watched it. He lost a random it

So he's one maybe had more did you have more than two fights near saying I can't think of a third. I Think I think he might have fought That Indian gas but that was Ruben Villarreal, right? I thought wasn't in The UFC that was in another organization. That was like a later fight, right? Now I thought that Ruben whatever guy That was my last fight. I came off of my hotel bed and Walked into the octagon. Did you have a fight with Scott for OZO in a backyard? Yes Fucking great. We played that fight once on the podcast. We're like, this is so crazy. These guys are so wild They're just fighting on the lawn. Yeah, no, they I they called me up and said I go yeah

I love fight that guy again and and I flew out there and Went they wanted to do it in an empty strip Club, how was this organized? Like, how does that take place? Some guy named Brian Groome just came up with some money and said, hey, I'll pay you guys to fight on a lawn. Well, he wanted to do it in an abandoned strip club. And I told him, I got dude.

He's like, I'm having trouble. I got no I'm not going to get arrested. I value my freedom. And he's like, yeah, I go off anywhere He goes are you doing my backyard? I go hell. Yeah, I do in my backyard And so we went there and I don't know what version you say he put he put some Edited version out of it, but he ended up going to the hospital again I sent him to the hospital the first time and he went again the second time because

of his big mouth. Well, you were punching him on the top and he was like cheering like he was having a good time. It was kind of a crazy fight to watch. Yeah, I don't know if he was cheering. It was something like he was saying, woo, like this is great. Yeah, he's trying to act. Yeah, like he's enjoying it.

Yeah. Enjoying getting beat up. Right. Yeah. Only if a girl's doing it to me. How many fights do you think you had total in all of MMA and in street fights in your life? If you had a guess.

I have guessed. You know what? That's like asking Wilt Chamberlain about how many one-night stands he's had. You know? Did he say 10,000? Yeah. So like, you know, not 10,000. I kind of dabbled around before I got bored and thinking like wow, you know Last couple years at least two times a week at least And then you know, so here that's what I'm saying and that Two times a week is so if you looked at a chart of the average person how many street fights they get in

The two times a week that is the smallest percentage of the population that's alive Yeah, well, yeah, I was into it. What did you enjoy so much about it? Well, here's the thing. You're you're not a dumb guy You're yours like when someone can get to a conversation with you and you want to really start talking about things You're a very bright guy. Yes, but you liked it. Oh yeah, I loved it. It was like your favorite thing. Well, you know, I broke it down and recently, not really recently, but in towards, after my surgery

and all these kinds of things, you sit around and talk to yourself all day. I come to realize, you know, there's a like a cliche on the bullies bully, that kind of thing. I used to set up textbook narcissist that come in and display their narcissism around people. Like you ever meet somebody that you're like, oh no, those two can't be around each other? Well I was the kind of, and I've never, more of an empath than people know, but I would, my ears would perk up and my eyes would open up when I saw a narcissist that would try to belittle, put people down, and I would kind of like be, you know, my brother's five years

older than me, and I kind of maybe, you know, he's very athletic. I come from like a football, dad's a football coach, that kind of thing. And so maybe deep rooted, I was resentful of him being older and able to push me around or what have you. And so when I see these narcissists and I'd be like, why would that guy be doing that for what? Like, what are you getting yourself over? And so I would put myself in their vicinity and sooner or later, and if you look at me, like even today when I walk down the street, people give me the eye like, yeah, you want some?

And I just— Do they really? Oh, hell yeah. How are you looking at them? Well, you don't want to know. Like, hey, do you want some? Yeah, exactly. So they're looking at you back.

Yeah, and I just smile and it's like, do you want some? Yeah, exactly. So they're looking at you back. Yeah, no, I just smile. And it's like, are you kidding me? I feel like Billy Jack, you know? Right. Like, you don't know what you're going to get into. Same, same back in the day. And I would go, no, no, no, no. I wrestled 190 pounds.

I wasn't like I was when I was fighting. Once I knew I was fighting, I just ate everything and just got as strong and as big as I possibly could. So sooner or later, and I go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you're gonna slow down there. And sooner, you talking to me? One of those kind of back and forths. And like I say, fighting to me is like walking the dogs.

I don't, okay, we can go there if you want to. And like I said, I've been in a lot of fights and talk about fighters four to two, you know, someone's biting my back or sticking their thumb in my eye socket. I was like, all right, just enjoy your time right now because you're going to pay the price. And the more you beat people up in the street and in life, the more jaded and you get used to it. Like you know, I can remember like maybe in high school or something, early high school you punch somebody and you give them a black eye and it's like, holy mackerel, wow.

That like, you want me to put my hands on you? You're gonna pay the price. Especially nowadays, with my health being so fragile, there's a different kind of beating people. You know when I was a youngster, I used to go to open wrestling rooms all the time and I remember this old warrior coach. He said, you know son, human body can take a lot of pain, a lot of beatings.

And it was, I still remember to this day, and I'm 59 now and it just kind of resonated in ringing in my ears like when you think you don't think you can hit them again and the more they are a smart ass and the more they beg for a beating, I give them what they deserve Did you always feel that like you had You had like an ethic for like when you were getting fights when you absolutely you know, I get only Getting fights with douchebags Well, yeah, but they think they act like oh Don't know nothing makes me more upset. And it doesn't happen so much that I'm older now.

But like, you're going to tell me what to do or talk down to me. I used to go, oh, really? We're going there? Oh, who? There's a lot of people out there. Everybody thinks they're tough. Well, there's a lot of people out there and everybody thinks they're tough well There's a lot of people out there that are just bluffing and they just they talk crazy because they think that people are gonna get scared

Yeah, you see it all the time online You can watch a hundred videos of them doing it to the wrong person Yeah, it's all time do it to the wrong person and they got you ever see the Joe Schilling one No, it's One of the greatest of all time Joe Schilling? Who's the man? He's a world champion kickboxer fucking great guy Joe Schilling is a nice guy doesn't start shit with anybody He's walking through a bar and there's this really aggressive guy who's drunk and he's talking a lot of shit and Joe is walking by him the guy moves and he puts his hands on his shoulders and he excuse me he passes by and the guy talks shit to him as he passes by and Joe

turns around and looks at him and apparently the guy had been obnoxious all night and Joe had been seeing him being obnoxious all night and Joe looks at him and says what the fuck did you say and the guy flinches at him and Joe just just two shots and one as he's on the way down and he's out cold watch this video because it's that's exactly It's a classic look at this guy This guy actually wound up suing him and losing the guy Sued him and lost and forced to watch Joe passes him and then the guy says something he turns around like he flinches on Yeah, wrong guy well those videos that's a lot those videos that's the hundreds of wrong guy. Well those videos that's a lot of those videos. That's the hundreds of wrong guy

Yeah, there's a hundred of people that I've come across karma. You're like Karma's warrior Well going out to the bar. Yes knocked down douchebags and but back in the day before I became tank Oh my god. Yeah all the time like who? I've never acted that way. I have. Only because I would see them acting that way, I would go and overdo what they were doing. Just to goad them on. Yes. Do you ever wonder what it would be like if you were, if you were born in a different timeline and you lived in today's ufc Do you ever think about it? Like when you see how big it is now and you see like the sure the different rules

You know these these kids and whatever. Um I don't know come yeah, I guess they're kids the kids us. Yeah, exactly They think they put a new spin on the wheel. The wheel's been around for a long time and you don't understand that you just because you learned a leg lock doesn't make you tough and there's some old bruises out there they'll take it take it to you. Yeah there certainly are um Um but it's just it's a different thing now. It's a different thing with the five rounds with the World Championship fight you know it's a different thing. It's like more of a skill. I think it would be very the problem is people wouldn't

enjoy the entertainment value as much because people get tired. You can't really fight for 15 minutes straight. You're gonna get exhausted but you can fight for 15 minutes if you take a break every five minutes. Oh, there's there's not Not a problem. I don't think with rounds like but when when Somebody like say mccartney gets to pick and choose when to break up the fight. Yeah, I don't I don't like that I don't like I don't like that at all. It opens the door for corruption I'm even though I'm a hypocrite

So I will say like when I'm doing commentary this part break this up because I'm getting bored But I really do believe that I mean, I think if the thing is they're allowed to break them up now It's part of the rule set in activity, but I don't think that should even be in the rules I don't I also have another controversial opinion I think if you take a guy down and you're on top of them at the end of the first round and you're ground and pounding, I think the second round starts in that exact same position. They have cameras, super easy to duplicate.

They've done that in Japan. They should do it. They should do that here. Why should you be allowed to start standing up, which is a hugely advantageous position for a striker? Right. Hugely, and you didn't earn it. You did not earn the stand up. Like if you got taken down and you got controlled, you never escaped that. And you might not ever escape it if it wasn't for you being stood up and you starting for

the next round. Right. Who knows? So not only do you get to get up, but you get a whole minute to recover, and then you're started in an advantageous position for yourself. That's not, it's like it's imbalanced. It's imbalanced. If a guy is, grappling is a huge part of fighting and if you're not a good wrestler and you're

not a good grappler and some guy can take you down and hold you down for the whole fight, that's the fight. That's how it should be played out. That's reality. The reality is you never earned a stand up If you can't figure out a way to sweep that guy if you can't figure out a way to get an underhook and get back Up to your feet then you stay down And that should be what fighting is even if it's boring because at least this way it's realistic

Yeah, absolutely and and like uh mark colman ground and pound I also think that if you're not touching the cage, as long as you're not touching the cage, knees to head to a ground opponent. I don't think you should be allowed to turtle. I don't think you should be allowed to just turtle and a guy sprawled on you and he's got a hold of your head and arm and he's on top, why wouldn't he knee you in the head? Of course he would knee you in the head. That's a very effective technique that would end fights. That should be legal. As long as you're not

touching the cage where you're not stuck somewhere, you gotta fucking move. You can't stay there. You can't allow that guy to hold you in that position. If he does, it's just as legitimate as getting a Thai clinch and landing it standing up. It's the same thing. Stalling. Yeah. Well, you can't be in that, you're not safe They're also touching the ground and avoiding knees to the face Bullshit, you can't do that Like they should be able to knee you in the face like you you should not touch the ground Because if you touch the ground your face is wide open

You should be like this or you should figure out a way to get out of there or he's gonna win or he got the best Position you got a we get it's it's there's too many rules that make it less about a fight and more about like Winning with the rule set like touch the touching the ground thing is so crazy The guys have a guy clinched up against the cage and if the guy touches the ground you can't name in the face, right? That's bananas. It's literally bananas The guy standing up chooses to touch the ground so that he doesn't get need in the face, right? That's it. That's a crazy playing the game part of the rules that doesn't lend itself to realistic fighting. That's not fighting

That's not like an accurate assessment of what would happen in a real fight If you leave like some of the most effective things other than of course eye gouges and nut shots and shit But if you leave that stuff out then you're you're leaving out like really effective techniques that would definitely work and Probably would end a fight especially knees to the head to a grounded opponent right at 12 to 6 elbows what? How the fuck is that still in there? I think they're taking that out now right isn't that out now They were just informing me they're either either close to taking that out now right isn't that out now they were just informing me they're either either close to taking that out now or they're you know where that came from

they were worried that people break bright bricks and ice on ESPN okay so they banned the 12 to 6 elbow it's still all these years later 2024 it's still banned it's fucking crazy they vote to remove Nice, okay, so this is in January. So is it taken to is it into effect already? Is that it? I don't know if it's a like work countrywide worldwide. Mm-hmm If it's ABC, I think I think it is I think it is because Hunter Campbell was the one who told me about it It was either him or Craig Craig Borsari But uh, do you know the guys who run the UFC now you ever go? I Haven't been I've been on a medical hiatus. Yeah, tell me about this because you

They told you you were gonna drink yourself to death and they were right. I They told you that you were going to drink yourself to death and they were right. I did that, yeah. You came close. No, I did it. You came close and you came back. Yes. What happened? Well, you saw what I used to do.

I just kept on doing it. No, I mean what happened physically to you? What surgery did you have to do? Oh, I got a liver transplant and a kidney transplant. Holy shit. Yeah, and I died five times on the table Holy shit, did you both at the same time? No they did the kidney are the liver first and want to make sure that took hold and then

Months later they did the kidney. How old we when this was going on? six years ago. Okay. And but I had, so 53. Yeah. I had five strokes too. So sometimes I struggle. It's hard. I was, for a long time, really, really slow. Like slow like I get the strokes yeah I was all on the table and so yeah was it was a rough so do you have to take medication to make sure that the

your body doesn't reject the organs yes does that fuck with your immune system well it is about the immune system but I mean does it fuck with you like do you get cold? I will always wonder no, but you know what? Happened is like I almost died from that too. I was two days away according to the doctor I Got a roundworm infection. Oh That was they think hanging around for a long time I got a roundworm infection that was,

they think, hanging around for a long time. And once I got on anti-rejection medicine, they didn't have any. Resistance. Right, so it started flourishing. And they didn't know what was going on. And I was like, no no you don't understand I'm dying not literally but from pain and they're like going we don't know what's wrong

with you anyways I couldn't take it anymore so I ended up doing 30 more days this is after a while of being home and I was actually going to the gym crawling around on the wrestling mat doing that kind of stuff. Turns out the doctor that saved me, Dr. Toto, he saved me twice, two different surgery type things, but he did a biopsy of my bowels and stuff and found that I had roundworm. He's like, you know where you got this from? I have some guesses. Where did you get roundworm? Well, I don't know. I went to Costa Rica a few times, but I don't know.

Is it like a tropical worm? Yeah. Roundworm is like an intestinal thing. Okay. So it's probably from something you ate somewhere. Right. Right. And so now it's just overrunning your body.

Yeah, slowly. And I was in the hospital for, after I did like four months the first time, the second time I went to the emergency room, I couldn't take anymore, twice. And I was there for 30 days on morphine. And it was very painful. So I developed a chant of pain is temporary, pain is temporary. And oh my god, for a month, they finally did a, and cut me open and did my bowels and found that I had roundworm and two days of medicine and I was better.

Wow. Yeah. I imagine people dying from that must not be very nice. Yeah, I talked to this dude once who told me that like 90% of people that live in tropical climates 90% have some sort of parasite in their body well possible and want to hear a nutty one this is what I was gonna say. Okay, cuz I didn't say it. So when we went to Japan for the first time, I was there with a Brazilian fighter and he was eating a lot of food a lot of food and Isaac's Bob all them are like on Jesus you see how much food that guy eats but I'm like who oh I go oh that's a guy I give it a rat's ass what do. And so I said, hey, why are you eating so much?

And he's, oh, oh. He said, are you on the gas? What's going on? And he's, oh, and I'm like, yeah, on the gas, huh? And he's, no, no, it's the worm, the worm. Oh my God, what the hell is he talking about? Some type of Portuguese thing. And he was in front of everybody.

And when I was in the hospital, David Isaacs came and saw me quite a bit. And he's like, don't you remember that time? He was saying, why are you eating so much? The worm, the worm the worm He goes it's a round worm. I'm like wow I never thought of that could be possible We were always eating dinners with all the Japanese people Well, you could definitely get worms from food, you know if you get tape worms around worms like that's a motherfucker

Yeah, well almost killed me that Infectious disease doctor came in with his badge and everything he goes he goes yeah You're down to like a couple days left Jesus Christ Especially with the medication you run right? Yeah, the worms are flourishing so you get rid of that and you they give you medication and now That now you have to get a kidney transplant after the liver transplant. Yeah, a piece of cake. That was easy? That was really easy.

So the liver one was the bad one? Yeah, I did over 120 days in ICU. Whoa. What is that like? Well, you know, I was laying there and my wife told me, obviously, that they were saying, it's time for you to start thinking about taking them off, unplugging me. It's that it's getting to that time. She said, this is like the surgical ICU floor. Like they could do surgery right there in your room that you're in.

And that's Cedars-Sinai, Beverly Hills, yay. Anyways, she's like the doctor, Dr. Toto. He came at her and said, hey, it's time for you to really start thinking about, does he wanna live like this? And I guess she told me I was just laying there with a tracheotomy with my eyes open and nothing moving. And she was there. was there. Anyway, so David Isaacs came there and they're gone. He goes, I'm gone away for the weekend. I'll be back Monday. And so they were talking about it, holding my hands.

And David Isaac said, have you ever seen awakening? I haven't seen it. He goes, it was like awakening. He goes, you had our hands. And he goes, you just, like your eyes came open and you started shaking your hands up and down. And so they didn't unplug me I'm still here Wow was that close and you died five times yeah do you have anyrhosis, I went to the doctor's hospital and made it out by

my house and got a specialty doctor, digestive, whatever, GI doctor. So he put me in touch with Cedars-Sinai. You've got to have a sponsor, someone to sponsor you to be allowed into the organ system there, transplants. And so I went there. And it was like a meetings and association type, you know We're gonna take you on and then they say okay. We'll see you in two weeks You cannot drink anymore. Don't not drink you can't do it Not even a little bit nothing. You're done

not a problem and so I'm like after a year I'm like oh man what the hell is going on? I mean these go there and they take your blood and go okay see you later. Well till the last time I went there, and you go in these little rooms and you get these like bed type chairs, almost like dentist chairs and sitting there and they walk out and they take your blood and then she walks in, the nurses and the doctor or assistants and all of a sudden they get this panicked look on their face. And mind you, I'd been doing this like a year, year and a half. And I've met with the doctors and the guy doctor said to me, he goes, I'll do surgery on you,

but not until you lose weight. He gave me like 50 pounds to lose. I lost like 75. So they knew I was serious and about the whole nine yards and so There was like I'm sitting there in the chair kind of like I am right now And usually it's kind of like hey, how you doing? You know what's going on right? But they were much more serious very serious, and I'm like Looking at my wife like I mean what's going on here?

And you know she basically died with me during this whole time. I'm like, what's going on? Something's not right. She's like, I go, go out there and see what's going on. She comes back and goes, oh, we're not going home. I'm like, what are you talking about? She goes, um, your Anyways, so I'm like looking at her like what the fuck, you know, what's going on? And it was like the most alone I've ever felt in my life except for her and the doctor and everybody are not making eye contact with me, not doing anything and a gurney comes in and they throw me on a gurney and I'm like, hey, hey, what's going

on? And they're like, they don't hear you, they don't see you, you just become like a log, you know what I mean? You're a sensory void, you're non-existent and I remember being pushed out of the transplant centers across the street by the, underneath tunnel type thing. I remember laying there and the fluorescent lights above me looked like freeway lane lights, lines. And I just remember laying there just going, oh man, this is a real deal.

You're dying. Consciously, it was like I died. It was like no one talked to me, no one heard me, no one saw me, except for my wife bouncing back and forth, trying to, hey, hey, you'll be all right, all right, you'll be all right. And I'm just being pushed down this hallway to the hospital. And I remember getting pushed into this room

with all these machines, it looks like the movies. And I'm like, wow. And I remember just laying on the bed there and just going, oh, oh, oh. And then my wife's like, you know, like comforting me. And I'm like, wow. And to me, that's when I died. And then I woke up with Isaac and my wife there.

But I guess I was in that room for six days on the machines and they were waiting for a transplant to come in and one came in and told my wife we got one. And she's like, oh, thank God thank God you know and we're gonna do surgery well it turned out somebody else was waiting for one also and they were a better match and my wife said they're a better match she's an angel she said let She said, let them have it. So the doctor came back in, she said, like six hours later, and he said, all right, we're going to go to surgery and she's all, I think you're messed up even though you shouldn't be, but I think

you messed up because we gave that other liver to somebody else. Kidney. No, liver. Okay. The kidney is later. My kidney stopped working. Okay. So they put me on dialysis, I guess, and waited for six days.

And so she's all, no, they gave that liver to the other person that was the better fit. And he's all, this never happens. But we got another one. This never happened ever. So they did me. And I was in a catatonic state for weeks and weeks and weeks. And then they were talking about unplugging me, the dialysis machines and all that kind of stuff.

And because I'm going to go away for the weekend. This is obviously conveyed to me from my wife. And take the weekend to think about what you want to do because you know this could be the best he gets right here. And she said the whole floor knew that that was talk happened. And she said everybody that she would walk down the floor with, their mood changed. She said it was total darkness. It was like she'd walk down the hall, and everybody would usually, hi, Sally.

Hey, how you doing? Right. And she said they were just like, oh, poor girl. Right. And then Isaacs came in, and she said they were both holding my hands. And I woke up. And how much has that, how has this experience changed your perspective about just life? Knowing that it almost went away.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I'm a totally different person completely. That's what you were telling me when I first saw you today. Yeah, yeah. I used to be like a, I hate to say it, narcissistic. Like I'm going to conquer the world and now you can't mess with me. And now it doesn't matter. I don't care. Oh you have that? Good for you.

I'm glad for you. Sometimes maybe before all this I'd be like, oh man, that guy'd do that. Oh man, I got to do that I'm better than that. I can do that. I Now it's like good for you, man Go go out and mow down. Is that a way better way to interface with life? Absolutely. I wish more people could learn that lesson. I took the hard way for me, but it's so unfortunate that so many people go around angry at other people's lives Yeah, I'm thinking that they deserve what that other person has such a waste of time

100% it's so bad for you, too You know carrying around just a bunch of extra bullshit for no reason and you're doing it to yourself yes, and you know I with Dana I I Yes, and you know, with Dana, I was in a dark, dark, dark place and just there's some medical things about that when you get ammonia in your blood and it makes you crazy. Like they had like a warning thing around my room like watch out for this guy like I guess I kicked a physical therapist in the chest and all the stuff I was ripping my cords out of me but it's called encephalopathy. And I would just, like to my poor wife,

to people that I've known for years, I've just talked in crazy nonsense, almost like Alzheimer's type. And they would tell my wife, like, he's got ammonia in his blood, and his liver doesn't work and it's poison in his brain and he doesn't know what he's doing. And I believe that I left according to my wife because she would listen to me on the phone.

I leave Dana choice messages. Dana White? Yeah. It's not funny. choice messages. Dana White? Yeah. It's not funny. It's funny if you realize how sick I was. I thought I was going to die. I was living the rock and roll lifestyle.

I used to joke around. Rock and rollers couldn't even hang with me. Once I got into WCW the whole, those guys live rock and roll lifestyle. It's like an athletic rock and roll lifestyle and I as you can imagine pushed it to the floor and pedaled in the metal man I was getting down down Was there ever a time where you were realizing that if I keep going yes It's gonna when was that when did it start feeling like that? I Use this

Well when I was wrestling I mean it was the rock-and roll lifestyle. Like you fly on a jet, boom, boom, boom, go for an eight day loop, fly home, do your laundry, do your thing. And that kept me from really taking off crazy. Once WCW got sold and my contract was still valid and I had money coming in and a whole bunch of time. Leaving Las Vegas with Nick Cage, he's the agent and he gets fired from that show, or not show, but talent agency. And he's like, Ben Saunderson. And he's like, what am I going to do now?

I'm going to go to Vegas. I was Ben Saunderson after WCW was done, and I wasn't leaving every week to go somewhere new. I was like, what am I going to do now? And they go, I guess I'll just drink myself to death. Not consciously, but that's what you were doing. That's I was, I was getting down. So that's when the liver started failing. No, no, my liver started failing when I went back to the UFC. That's when I held on, man. I pulled physical feet.

But when Dana called me to come back for the, to do my comeback thing. I'm like, sure. And I kind of got into shape shape. But he flew me out to Atlantic City, I believe, and he goes, okay, I need you to be down here tomorrow. We're going gonna do a shoot this whole nine yards and I pride myself on being responsible and doing what I'm supposed to do and being there on time I'm one of those kind of people

and so I go to wake up and this is like I'm coming back kind of thing and I was supposed to be at the shoot. I could not. I was like could not get out of bed. I was that sick. I almost missed the whole show. Just out of just crawling to get there and I got there halfway through the show, and his agent or his person that worked for him came up to me

and goes, oh, here you are. Where were you? And I'm going, oh, man, I just didn't feel very good. I was awful, like nauseous, sick all the time. I think that's when your liver was starting to fail. Yeah, there's there's stages Mm-hmm, and that's kind of it's called a Compensated liver decompensated liver

it was a Compensated liver and it's like all the things where your liver stops working and you get sicker and sicker and that's when you start turning yellow. They would pump my stomach or my cavity, pull out like a couple two liter things all the time. It was just poison just running through your body and like encephalopathy, going through your brain. I was a complete crazy, like, you know, Ben Saunderson is the guy in Leaving Las Vegas.

I make him look like a kindergartner. I was that out of control. I was insane. I can look back and just go, ho, ho, ho. Have you thought about writing a book? I have written a book, and I'm glad you brought that up, man. Thank you. Is it out?

Yes. It's a trilogy. I wrote a 900-page trilogy. Really? Yeah. Did you bring it? Did you bring the book? Yes, I did.

It's in my bag over there. There's three of them. The first one's called Bar Brawler and it's about when it's 300 plus pages long. It's about how the mid 80s and early 90s how people used to be and how There's some really graphic Fights in it and who Some people think it's an autobiography, but it's written as a novel Okay, that's a good way to do it. Yes, and the main character is Walter Fox. And Walter Fox, it's how Walter Fox goes through his life,

beating people up at bars and all that, and ends up fighting in a show called NHB, and they call him Crazy Fox. And it's how Walter Fox, through all these trials and tribulations, ends up as Crazy Fox at the end of it. It's a trilogy. It's 900 pages long plus. Did you write all this by yourself? Yes, page, every single page.

I didn't have a ghostwriter or anything. Just sit in front of a laptop? Write it up by hand? I scribbled it out on a spiral notebook, a bunch of them. Yeah. And I hunt and packed the whole 900-plus pages. Wow. Three books.

Why didn't you just learn how to type? I, I, because I'm a dumb. Well, you know, Hunter S. Thompson never really Three books. Why didn't you just learn how to type I I Cuz I'm a dumb we don't hunter s Thompson never really learned how to type Hey, how do s Thompson was hunting and packing when he was writing? Like fear and loathing in Las Vegas I'm telling you this especially if you're a fight fan it's called before There Were Rules and it's awesome. I'm pumping myself up, but if you want to know how a real fighter in my

eyes... Before There Were Rules. Yes, that's the third book. The second book is Cage Fighter and the first book is Bar Brawler. And it goes pretty much the whole what we've been discussing. It goes through all of those things. And where can people get these books? They're on Amazon. Okay. And it's, some people think it's an autobiography. Like I said, it's fiction. Exactly right. It's fiction, folks. It's an autobiography, like I said, it's fiction. Exactly right.

It's fiction, folks. Was a plausible deniability. Yeah, exactly, fiction, folks. And there's like the, there's a fighting promoter, matchmaker, and his name is Big Bart Shady. And of that show, the NHB show, the referee's name is Winchell Duncan,

and he's a little guy with a big ego. And so you could draw parallels, but I don't tell you how to think. But it's actually how Walter Fox got all the way through the bar scenes and everything that I discussed. It's how Walter Fox ended up becoming Crazy Fox. Have you done a audiobook for this? Yes. Did you read it? I listened to it.

Oh, okay, somebody else read it. Somebody else read it? No, it's, oh, yeah, no, it's on AI. Oh, AI did it. Yeah, it's pretty good. I was worried about the inflection and everything. Right. It came out really good. Now they're very sophisticated now. It's pretty incredible what they can do now. It's awesome. David thank you very

much for being here man. You're an American original. You really are. And it's been cool to know you all these years and to you made the UFC a very exciting thing in the early days. You were one of the big reasons for its early success. Yes, I believe so. I think so too. I think everybody thinks so. All right.

Cool. And I appreciate your brother and good health to you. Likewise. I hope you feel better. Thank you very much. Thank you. Any website? Anywhere else people can see your stuff?

Oh, yeah. No, just Amazon before there are rules. Do you have a website? Yeah, well what's it called? Instagram? What's the Instagram? Tank.Abbott. Okay. Yeah. Alright. I think anyways, yeah like I said I've had five strokes so it's amazing that I'm even talking so but what was I gonna tell you there's my I don't know we're talking about website Instagram by the books on Amazon your Instagram David no tank dot oh yeah before there are rules the first word you know I like I said I wrote every single page of this book. First word is misspelled.

So all you narcissists. Are you preemptively blocking people getting mad at you for misspelling things? No, no. I like, I put it out there as bait for all those narcissists to tell me how dumb I am. Well, you could have just corrected it. I misspelled things all the time.

No? You just always playing games? Yes. All right. Well, thanks could have just corrected it. I've been spelt things all the time. No? You just always playing games? Yes. Alright. Well, thanks brother. Thanks for being here, man. It's great to see you again. It's a pleasure.

Thank you for having me on. And again, best of health to you. Thank you. Bye everybody.