The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #166 with Ilia Topuria

Episode Date: April 16, 2025

Joe sits down with Ilia Topuria, a professional mixed martial artist currently competing in the Lightweight division of the UFC. https://www.ufc.com/athlete/ilia-topuria This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com/JRE Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN.  GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, [phone] or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. $5+ first-time bet req. Max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 5/18/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Joe Rogan Experience. Trained by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Alright bro, my man. What's happening? Pleasure. No, please, my pleasure. Thank you very much for having me here. My pleasure.

My honor. I'm very excited about this new thing you're doing. I'm very excited about your journey into the lightweight division. Something that I felt very excited also about that. What are you walking around at? Like what do you walk around that when you were fighting at 45? I'm gonna tell you in kilos. Okay. I walk around 80-82. That's what is that Jamie? Like 160-170? 175? 180. 180? Okay So you were losing quite a bit of weight. 35 pounds? 25, 30 pounds.

Like, oof. Yeah, that's how hard. That was the hardest part of the fight game for me. I wasn't enjoying at all the last couple fights that I had. Because it's like I had to become more professional in the weight cut than in a fight game, you know and it was taking a lot of time and energy from me and I'm like My dream is to become a world champion I want to end up this this chapter that I have that I started in 145 and now it's time to

To really enjoy it and I'm very excited about that. I Already have one fight in 155. Joy Herbert. Joy Herbert. I already have one fight in 155. Jai Herbert. Jai Herbert. I really wish the UFC would eliminate weight cutting. I really wish there was a way. Why do you allow to do that? I don't. It's sanctioned cheating that everybody has to do. It's like you're, you know, I mean if you're saying you're 180 pounds you're not really 145 right? So it's crazy that you're the 145 pound champion but you're 180 pound man it's kind of nuts yeah but at the same time if you go to the next weight class you are playing with the disadvantage because the guy in the next division is cutting a lot of weight mm-hmm so if you don't do that at the

end of the day you walk inside the octagon and you are the smaller guy yeah like Islam Islam Akhachev is huge I mean that guy how he makes 155 is I don't understand it every time I stand next to him like how we in 55 how much do you think he walks around? He's got to be 190 ish in the 190 range. He's gotta be that's what he looks like To me. I never saw him in a person. Yeah, he's thick. He's thick and big I mean, he's not a small. He's not a hundred and fifty five pound man. It's just so silly. The whole thing is just it's it's an it's an old thing that we kept for no reason. And I feel like they should blow all the weight classes. I've talked to Dana about this. I actually talked to Ari Emanuel about this when they first bought the UFC.

I said the first thing you should do is get rid of this. Get rid of the weight cutting and just add a bunch of weight classes. You know, because some of the weight class gaps, like the gap between 70 and 85 and then 85 and 205, they're too big. The gaps are too big. 20 pounds is nuts. I would do something with the drag test. Like if I go to your home to make the drag test, I put you in the scale. If you walk around like 8% or 10% over your weight, I would obligate you to go in the next weight class. Just to give you an example, for example, if you're fighting at 100 kilograms, I'm going to say 10 kilograms, and I go to your house, I do the drag test, I put you in the scale and

your weight is 110 kilograms, I will force you to go to the next weight class. Yeah, I think that's realistic. That makes sense. And I think that they should have more weight classes because the weight class gaps are just too large. Or maybe that's an option also. Yeah, I mean, at the lower weight classes, it's 10 pounds, which seems reasonable.

But really, at the lower weight classes, and you know when you look like 125 and 135 it could easily be five pounds five pounds is reasonable but the Dana doesn't want like 12 weight classes or 12 15 20 weight classes like boxing ass he wants it to be like the UFC has now but it's not enough there's no real reason behind that but I would love to talk to Dana and ask him this this question also because it's not enough. There's no real reason behind that But I would love to talk to Tain and ask him this this questions also because it's kind of dangerous Oh, yeah for the guys and many times you put on a show for the people and you don't really know if they're gonna make The wait, right? Exactly, and they're gonna be compromised I mean, there's a lot of guys who fight just deeply dehydrated from the day before.

And even though they've rehydrated themselves, their brain's not rehydrated yet. Exactly. It's not smart. And it's also not necessary. Like, why would you make for better fights? Why would you want someone to be physically compromised 24 hours before they're fighting?

It doesn't make any sense at all. But at the same time, the way cut takes something out from you. That's crazy. It's like putting a dog inside the room for 20 days without any food and you open the door and you put him in a different room with full of food. It's like the same thing. You know, when I'm cutting the weight, I'm like, I'm different person. I feel that I'm like, my mind goes different. my thought process is different everything is so different at that moment I'm not so kind when I'm cutting weight. Yeah more focused. Yeah dialed in exactly

Dominic Cruz says it's a good thing. He says he likes weight cutting because it gets you dialed in He says it gets you completely dialed in for a fight. How much he cuts? I don't think he cuts that much. That's why. 35. That's why he likes it. Ask Alex Pereira if he likes it.

Because when he was fighting at 85, he was weighing in at 85 and then fighting in the cage at 225, 226, which is crazy. I don't know how that guy was making 185. I don't know. That's crazy because he's huge and he's so tall. Well how about Drikus Du Plessis? How the fuck is he 185? That guy's huge.

Yeah, that guy's huge also. There's a lot of these guys like, but it's very deceptive because the general public thinks that's a 185 pound man, but he's not Dracus is probably when he gets into the cage. He's well into the 220s. He's a big guy I don't know in what way he walks around but he's huge guy also and comes out when he was fighting in 170 Yeah, he was big also. He was almost killing himself The craziest one was Anthony Rumble Johnson.

Do you remember Anthony? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anthony, I ran into him once in between fights. And I said, how much do you weigh? He said, 230. Wow. He was fighting 170. He switched, how many weight classes?

He started from 170, he went to light heavyweight, and then he ended up fighting in the heavyweight division. He went to middleweight and didn't make weight. He missed weight and lost that fight. And then he fought heavyweight outside the UFC and then came back and fought light heavyweight in the UFC. You know, something similar happened to me also. I started fighting in the bantamweight division.

Really? Yeah. Before the UFC, like in Cage Warriors warriors when I was fighting in the cage warriors I actually missed the weight also when I was fighting for the belt. I was fighting at that time in the bento weight division then I kept fighting in the featherweight and now I'm in the lightweight. I hope I don't end up fighting in the welterweight. How old were you when you first started fighting? In MMA you're asking? Well, when did you first start martial arts? With four years old my dad put me with my brother

in judo. Then we went to Georgia, we kept practicing with the Greer or the cracker among wrestling and then we moved to Spain when I was 15 years old and Completely by chance we find the gym and we started training the damn. I made the mix of martial arts totally by chance Totally by chance Wow, so were you a mixed martial arts fan at all? I didn't know anything about the mixed martial arts I didn't know anything anything about the BJJ, the ground grip, any fucking thing. Wow. So we went to Spain and we wanted to keep with the same discipline as we were doing in Georgia with the Greco-Roman wrestling but they don't have the culture of that sport. So we were a little bit sad know, because we wanted that sport. My brother was really, really good on that. So my mom was working and he saw a man with the cauliflower ears.

He went to, she went to him and she asked him like, what you're doing? Because my kids want to, to do wrestling. Do you train in some gym or something? And he said, no, I'm doing the BJJ. Bring your kids and I'm gonna show you the gym. She came to home and my dad and my mom, they started to convince us. Like there's a gym, they are practicing like Jiu-Jitsu,

MMA, all the sports. And I was like, but what the fuck is this? I don't know what's this. And my dad started to show me the videos of the Gracies. He told me like, this is one of the best sports in the world right now. You are going to guys love it. This and that. And at that day we went to the gym and I felt in love since the first second. Well, it's actually a great base to start out from. Starting with Judo and then Greco-Worming Wrestling, and then going into Jiu Jitsu, it's really great because you already have an established grappling base.

It's great, of course. My recommendation for everyone is if you want to have a career in MMA, you should start with wrestling because, for me personally, because this is my personal experience, that it's much easier to learn in the future boxing than start with boxing and learn the wrestling. Really?

For me, yes, I think so. And I saw that in many people. But how old were you when you first started boxing? 17 years old. That's fairly old. like when you think about how high level your striking is. Of course it is. But when I started, I was like, okay,

I'm very good with the wrestling, I can take people down, I can control them, I have a great ground game, but what if I go to the highest competition and I find some some adversities I have to be able to fight in the striking also So I have to develop my game in the striking and I start from from from that and I start with my brother We were like the first people to go inside the gym and the last ones to live it

So we were studying every day all they like so obsessed we were watching like all the videos of Julio Cesar Chavez, of Carmel, all that, practicing all the techniques and then putting in interaction, the sparrings and all that. And I was like finding my style, what that I really like to do. Well, it's interesting because Spain doesn't have a long history of mixed martial arts. So you are the first champion from Spain in the UFC.

So it's very interesting that you got in there as a young man and there wasn't really like a big established community yet. So I was the first guy to get into the top 15 the top 10 the top 5 and then the world champion We we had a guy in Spain who? Fought in in in the UFC. I don't know if you remember him and he kept wasabi. Okay. Yeah, they're the ultimate fighter Then we have another guy also Joel Alvarez. He's doing a great job also But before that we didn't have anyone in the UFC. So when you first started training were there amateur competitions in Spain? Yeah. There was amateur MMA? I made three fights in

amateur and then I started with a professional game. I did four fights in Spain and at some point it was so difficult to find a fight for me that I had to start to travel in the European territory to get a fight. Yeah and everything started from that. But it's fascinating because a lot of world champions generally, well there's a good percentage of them come from an established gym that already has elite high level competition. But it seems like that's not the case with your gym. No, it wasn't.

So I don't know. I don't know what was the reason to be honest to came this far. I don't know. Well, that's always the question with champions like our champions born or are they bred because there's, there's gyms that develop like Marvin Hagler came out of the Petronelli Brothers gym in Brockton, Massachusetts They're not known for world championship fighters, but Marvin Hagler is one of the greatest of all time It's like there was something inside of him that made him excel the same thing there was something inside me that

Made me the person who I am today Did you know when you first started training, when you first started doing MMA that you were gonna fight professionally? Yeah, since the first day. So my mindset always was the same, exactly the same as I have right now. I'm like, if someone did it, I also can do it.

And if no one did it, I can be the first one to do it. This is the mindset I always had. It's like, yeah. I think that the champion, they are not born, they are made also because you can burn in an extraordinary situation, but you can end up so bad, you know, and the opposite also. You can burn in a, I don't know, crazy situation and end up in a paradise.

Yeah, it's such an interesting thing because all champions are not the same type of person either. You know, you've got guys like Sugar Sean O'Malley, who's silly and smokes weed and has crazy hair. And then you've got guys like Alex Pereira very stoic you know very serious it's everyone's different he's very serious I met him in Sydney I went with my brother because he made his UFC debut and yeah he was kind of quiet like yeah he's intense he's so serious yeah he's

intense I remember watching him fight for the first time in glory in kickboxing. And I was like, Jesus Christ. His rush-way chaos, people. I was like, this guy is different. Huge. Yeah. Great.

Crazy power. His power is just ridiculous. I mean, the guys would be blocking. Who do you love watching fight? I love watching you fight. Yeah? I'm a giant fan. I like all styles, man.

I'm fascinated by the game in all different styles. I mean, I like watching all the champions. I mean, I love watching Marab fight. He's a fucking animal. He's the machine. I love him. He's an animal. I mean, I just don't understand that cardio. His cardio is fucking crazy. It's like superhuman cardio. And I'm gonna tell you

something about Murab that surprised me. That maybe you see him in the mat and he's not the most special guy, the most skillful guy in the room, but I don't know what happens to him when he gets inside that octagon. Wow. That man is a fucking machine. He's a fucking machine. Right now you ask me who I love to watch fight. That's my rap.

I would pay, take my money. When he's fighting in the pay-per-view right now, at this point I'm like, bro, take my money. I love Umar too. Umar you know that fight was incredible that was one of the best fights I've ever seen because they're so skillful so high level and you know to see him make Umar start to wilt to see Umar like you see the wobble when guys start getting fatigued you see this like a little bit of like loose movement in the way you know you see that Marab had none zero just shooting like like he was in

the first round in the fifth round because this is what I exactly think that happens to Omar because you see Merab from outside like you're sitting and you are saying him training or fighting and you're like he's not gonna be able to take me down he's not gonna be able to do that to me and then you get inside the doctor move with him and Everything changes. Yeah, it's like you have a machine in front of you who has like non-stop Daniel Cormier went to visit him right after he won the title damn it. Daniel Cormier went to his house on Sunday Yeah, Marab wasn't home. He was out running. Yeah. He won the title on Saturday. Daniel went to his house on Sunday. Marab's out running. Wow. He's crazy. He came to Spain also to help me once when I had the training come. I was

supposed to fight with Moser. He came to help me. Crazy. We the same exactly exactly. We were like finishing the training. He was going for a run. He was going to actually to his house running. Yeah. no shortcuts no there's no no shortcuts no but you know like to answer your question I'm you know I'm fascinated by all the different styles you know I like watching everybody fight you know I love Volkonovsky you know I love watching him fight this past weekend and he's so great he I was so happy for him this, this Saturday because he really deserved the, deserved it to get the, that title back.

Does it bother you to see someone win your title? No, not that you're good. I'm good. I'm good. Happy for him. You established you won, you defended. I defended right now. I have completely different challenge in front of me I wish him nothing but the best and to everyone like I wish the best wins all the time. That's great. Yeah, that's great Okay, what about Patti Pimlet though? He did a great job he did a great job he did what he had to do he did but for me it's like I'm gonna be completely honest with you. For me, Chandler, he never was an extraordinary fighter. He was like average level of fighter.

Who did he beat in the UFC? Dan Hooker and Tony Ferguson. Dan Hooker. Dan Hooker's a good fighter. He just caught, well Dan Hooker had that war with Dustin Poirier. Dustin Poirier is a very good fighter. How many losses he had? He's got a few losses.

He's a good fighter, very entertaining fighter. For the fans. He's a wild dog. Yeah, he's a dog. He goes inside that octagon and he fights. But yeah. I think he's on a resurgence I think you know he had a skid for a while and now he's rebuilding himself and he's on a resurgence. You're smiling.

Look at you motherfucker. So he beat Dan Hooker and Tony Ferguson when he was like almost four years old. I think honestly we got Michael Chandler after his prime. If you go watch Michael Chandler fight Eddie Alvarez and Bellator those were fucking crazy fights crazy Yeah, but at the end of the day you see worse. It's a very competitive fight Yes, you see almost a bar fight you see two guys in the middle of the octagon exchanging punches But you don't see technique you don't see skills you see a great fight because as a fence it's a very entertaining to watch fights like that but if you really think about it it's like you don't see skills in that fight

you don't see someone trying to take you down control you some great submissions great transitions I don't know is striking you see a guy that he's like looking for a combination. He's looking for his moment, creating a spaces. You don't see like, I don't know. I see what you're saying. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. It's the end of tax season and I know by now

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So it's not as tactical or technical. Exactly. It's just wild dogs. It's just wild dogs. It's just wild dogs. I mean, that's why Michael Chandler is so popular, because he fights like a wild dog. Exactly. That's cool.

Yeah. That's cool. You need the guys also like him. But I would never recommend my friend to fight like that. Exactly. I never would recommend to someone, watch this guy and learn something. Right.

Right. Right. Learn. Yeah. He's so entertaining, but sometimes it's best to not be as entertaining and just to be better. Exactly. Yeah. And shut people down. At the same time, you don't have to be Bilal. Right. I see what you're saying. But you, Bilal, I think gets too much bad rap. Like Balal, when he beat up Shawn Brady, that was very entertaining, and Shawn Brady's very good.

You know, I think Balal just does what it takes to win. And when you're in a division, and also, like, he didn't really have a background in wrestling at the level that a lot of these guys did. He had to develop that over time. Yeah, but there are two types of champions for me. There are champions who prepare themselves to win, and there are the other ones who prepare themselves

to dominate. I prepare myself not to win because I know that I'm going to win. I want to win in fashion. I want to dominate. I want more people. I want people to be entertained. I want people to be like, well, I'm

happy that I spend the money this Saturday night going watch this guy. This is what I want. Yeah, someone was talking about that recently on Instagram. I don't remember who the coach was, but he was talking about levels of athletes. That there's people that train to compete, there's people that train to win, and then there's people that train to dominate, to be the greatest of all time. Exactly. There's people that train to win, and then there's people that train to dominate, to be the greatest of all time. Exactly. There's a different mindset.

There's a never satisfied, always improving mindset that the great champions have. All the time. I want the people to be entertained all the time. When actually I was, I started with the MMA, I was recording myself, all the sparrings, and after that I was watching my sparring, I was like, will I pay my money to watch this? What do I have to change in my game to be more entertained? And this is how I was looking at myself all the time. I was very critical with myself. And this is how I develop and develop and develop.

And all the time I go inside the Octagon, I don't go there just to win. You know what I mean? I want everyone to be like, wow, what he just did. How he did it. He was the greatest of all time, he made it made him look easy. Yeah This is what I want. I want to change the game You know the people to I want you to say your friend watch this guy and learn something

Mmm. Yeah, well Mission accomplished So far, right so far so good and now a new journey into the lightweight division, you know Um, I don't understand why they won't just book you in Islam. There's many times that I wish I was running the UFC. I would change so many different things. That would be one of the first things I would change. I'm like, book that fight. Book that fight right away.

You would do sound fights also in Mars, I'm sure. I would probably. Do you all go with the Starship? I got some wacky ideas I don't even think they should fight in a cage Yeah? Yeah I think the cage is an unnecessary It's a wow

I think it's an unnecessary element in fighting like to push someone against something or to be able to get up from something I don't think it's necessary I think they should be in like a basketball court like a basketball court that's against something or to be able to get up from something. I don't think it's necessary. And how would you do it? I think they should be in like a basketball court. Like a basketball court that's matted up.

Have a big space, have a warning track where you can't, if you go outside the warning track too many times, you could lose points. And so when someone takes you down, you have to actually get up. I also think at the end of a round, like say if you've got a guy mounted at the end of the round, you start the next got a guy mounted at the end of the round,

you start the next round mounted on him. Of course. Yeah, I don't think, because why would you give him the advantage of getting up when he never got up? He never got up. Never. You have to earn a get up. You have to stand up by yourself. I love it. I never thought about that. Yeah. No, no stand ups ever, ever. No stand-ups unless someone commits a foul Like if someone commits a foul and you want to stand them up and take a point away, that's fine But if the guys in the bottom and he commits a foul you were guys in the bottom He gouges someone's eyes on purpose take a point away put him right back in the same spot Wow, because otherwise like say if you're fighting a guy like Alex Pereira who's never taking anybody down

He's just gonna strike with you, right? Okay. Why would you let him back up again and have he advantage of him standing up again? Yeah, the beginning of the round he starts standing up again. Now you gotta take him down again, but also You don't think that it's it's a part of the show It is so part of the show, but I don't give a fuck about that. Yeah, I'm a fan. I mean, I'm a hardcore fan I'm a purist. I think it should be about fighting, about elite fighting. And elite fighting is you got to get up. Like if a wrestler takes you down and he just does this to you and it's not entertaining. But if he can do that to you, that's tough shit. That's what he did. You would

change also the time range like oh you would leave a three or five minutes with one minuteminute rest. The good thing about five-minute rounds, the good thing about five-minute rounds is it's sustainable and guys can fight at a high pace. If you had like just one 15-minute round, guys would be exhausted and the end of it would be sloppy, it wouldn't be the same, the pace would be much slower. It wouldn't be as good. So I think there's nothing wrong with rounds, but I think it's one fight. It's not five fights So why does he stand up at the end of every round? I think if a guy takes you down and he's got you mounted with like Trapped an arm and he's punching your ribs trying to secure an arm triangle

Why would you why does he get to stand up again? Yeah, it doesn't make any sense true Especially if he's a striker and you wasted all that energy get him to the ground and you got so close to cinching up a submission And then all of a sudden he's back on his feet again clean You have to stand up and he didn't even earn it start him right back down there. No cage No stand-ups no stand-ups ever if everybody booze tough shit. Go watch baseball. Go watch something else. You wouldn't like to see at some point the world championships in mixed martial arts. Like for example, let's say the seven best fighters

from the United States and every weight class against seven best fighters from, I don't know, from China or from Russia. Yeah, I would love that. The best flight weight against the best flight weight from the United States. And you do that and you have seven fights because you have seven weight divisions. And if you win four weight divisions, that country won. Yeah.

That will be fun. That would be great. That's a great idea. I love that idea Yeah, I think that that idea sounds really good and also There is a bit of an issue right with the UFC being the premier Organization for martial arts the UFC is like if you're not a champion in the UFC No one thinks of you as a world champion. Yeah, like you're a world champion Yeah, world champion someone can fight in the PFL and they could say oh, it's the P a world champion. World champion. Someone can fight in the PFL and they can say, oh it's the PFL world champion.

Everybody's like, right. Come on. Come on. Great fighters. But at the end of the day... You know that you have all the best fighters, the best collection of fighters in the UFC. Yes. But I watch one FC and I watch some of those fucking animals that they have over there and I'm like, Jesus Christ.

These guys are good, man. Some of these guys are good and you know, they're calling them one one FC world champions I'm like, huh? I'd like to see him I'd like to see him because some guys look real good until they fight elite talent We've seen that before like some guys look like destroyers and then they get in the UFC Against guys who are just a little bit more technical a a little smarter, and they get pieced up. What happens is that I think that in one championship, you most of the time you used to fight with strikers. In the UFC, you don't know who you're going to face next.

Maybe he's a wrestler, maybe you're going to fight Demian Maia, who wants to fight you on the ground, maybe you fight Alex Pereira. You don't fucking know, so you have Alex Paredo, you don't fucking know so you have to be good everywhere and you have to be prepared for everything. In one championship maybe you are good at striking and you can be a world champion. Yeah maybe. I mean there are some good grapplers over there but my point is I really wish there was no organizations.

I really do. I really wish it was just all the best fighters competing. I don't, look, I love the UFC. I've been working for the UFC forever. And my loyalty is to the UFC. But I wish there was just only fighting. You know, no organizations, just like boxing is. And boxing, but the problem with boxing is,

it's very difficult to get these guys because they all have different promoters. Exactly. And if they all have the promoters exactly and if they all the same Promoter they all get fucked when it comes to negotiation Right if they're all the same promoter and the same managers, you know something about soccer no Yeah, I know a little bit like how they do like the Champions League mm-hmm. They have like for example Let's say the Real Madrid. They have a team. That's why I would What I would do is like I would create a team against another team. For example, I have Real Madrid

I've I sign like the best seven fighters in the world Whoever I want in different weight classes and you have for example Barcelona You you sign the seven best fighters in the world, around the world, you train them in one place, you do like all the strategy, and we meet each other. We do a competition like a Champions League. And we do like the whole year calendar, and the best wins at the end of we do like the finals, and we give them the space to recover. We create like a competition between teams,

not that individual people, you know what I mean? Yes. So I would do something like that. That's a great idea, but the problem is I think guys get injured, guys fall out, guys get sick. That's right. In soccer, you have guys that in your position, you always have two or three guys. That if you are injured, you have another guy that can change you, switch you, you know, between

the rounds even. You are in soccer, sometimes it happens. Someone gets injured in a stadium and they can switch them. Yeah, that makes sense. But I mean, at the end of the day, like imagine, say, if you get scheduled to fight Islam and Islam gets injured and Armand Tsaroukian takes his place or something like that. The NBA 82 game grind is done and now the real fun begins. The NBA playoffs are here and it's time for all the high stakes drama, clutch moments and jaw-dropping plays. I can't wait. If you're looking to make the playoffs even more exciting,

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Because no one's gonna care who is gonna fight in from the flyway division who is gonna be you represented from the flyway division or from the lightweight division. I'm like, maybe I bring you Islam, that I have him in my team, or also I could have Charles Soluweila in the same team. Or maybe I bring Charles Soluweila because I think that against your team, the guy you have in the lightweight division, Charles does it better. Right, right, right. They do that with grappling, like quintet. They do that. They have like grappling teams. Yeah, I mean that would be interesting. I just, there's certain fighters like, I was, my main regret in MMA,

that we never got to see Fedor fight in the UFC when he was in his prime. That's true. If I could have one thing, one fight in their prime, Fador Cain Velasquez. Oh, that would be a great fight. Oh my god. Great fight. In their prime. That would have been incredible.

Incredible. Actually, Cain was an amazing fighter. Bro, that guy had a gas tank that was superhuman. For a heavyweight, It didn't make any sense You would see guys just fall apart They would just wilt pure boxing style pure boxing style great wrestling incredible chin And just indomitable will too tough for his own good Which is why he wound up like towards the end of his career. He was just his body had deteriorated so much

Yeah, it's so many back injuries, neck injuries, shoulder injuries, knee injuries. Actually, what's going on with him? He's in jail right now. Yeah, he got sentenced. He got sentenced to five years and the judge said this was the least amount he could sentence him. He didn't want to sentence him. Well, what happened to him? Do you know that? Yes. So, Cain's son was going to daycare and there was a man who molested him at daycare. Kane found out about it, chased the man in his car and shot at him. He tried to catch him in his car and shot at him. Kane gets arrested.

Kane stayed in jail. The guy gets arrested and he got out on bail. I don't know what's happening with the guy. I don't know if he's been sentenced yet or what, but this guy molested his son multiple times. I don't know how many times, but he did what every father would have done. If you're not a father, you do not understand the murderous rage you would have if some man molested your baby. You don't understand. It's it's you would see Read in a way that no one can describe to you unless you're a parent that fucking anger is I mean if there's ever

a plea for temporary insanity That's that's the plea if there's ever a person who could That's the plea. If there's ever a person who could justifiably say, I was temporarily insane, it's a father that's chasing after someone, especially a man who molests your boy. Everybody understands it. Everybody understands it. He should have never gone to jail. He's not a threat to society. He's not a danger. He shouldn't be in prison. And he already did three years. He was already in jail for three years. He has been a great example for so many upcoming guys, like for the new generation. I don't

know why guys like him have to end up in the jail for something like that. Exactly. He didn't rob anyone. He didn't... Exactly. Exactly. It's horrific. It's horrific. You know, I mean, I just don't understand it. It's I mean, the judge's hands were tied. He had to make a sentence. And this is the I think the minimum amount they were trying to give him 30 years. Yeah, for attempted murder because he was just shooting at this guy. And obviously, when you're driving and shooting, you could miss him and kill a bystander. It's very dangerous. But also, the guy was in a murderous rage

for a good reason, for a good reason. And if he killed that guy, the world would be better off. That's my opinion. That's true. That's also true. A guy like that walking around him unless children should be dead. That's just my feeling.

All this thought of, I mean, there's a bunch of people on the left here in the United States that they have this crazy way of looking at pedophiles. They call them minor attracted persons. They want to make it a protected class and say it's like someone being attracted to someone of the opposite sex or someone being attracted to someone of the same sex.

No, it's not. No, it's not. You're're victimizing children the most vulnerable and protected people that we have of course you can't even talk to the kids about something like that you know what I mean yeah but like I heard so many crazy things about that topic that I know let's leave it right there. We'll just get in trouble Yeah, I mean kill them all that's how I feel kill them all anybody wants to do that to children There's no reason for them to exist. They this decide I mean for yeah you're just gonna ruin lives and not just their lives, but You're gonna ruin all the people whose lives they ruin because they're all fucked up now

You know, you kill so much potential from a human being to do that to a baby. It's just insane. It's just fucking insane. So that's unfortunately the story with Kane right now. And you know, he was out for a while. And once they let him out, he was coaching at AKA and you know, he's an amazing coach and we hope that they gonna they gonna think it again and they're gonna give him the freedom he deserves yeah I mean I hope Trump pardons him I mean that's what I really hope I hope so you know make something happen with that maybe that's possible I mean that might

be the best best option but anyway in prime, Cain Velasquez versus fador. That's my my biggest regret a fight that we never got to see. Because when Cain when when fador was fighting in pride, you know, and this is before the UFC was really huge, right? Because they were huge in Japan in like 2001 2002, they were filling stadiums in Japan, when the UFC was just sort of emerging in the United States It really hadn't hit its peak until 2005 and why do you think that they never bring him to to the UFC? Well, they tried. Yeah, but I

Gotta be careful. I say this so fador was controlled by some Russian people that were very rough men, as it were, you know, gangster type characters and they had a bunch of negotiations with the UFC but there were very unreasonable demands like they wanted part of the promotion they wanted to own a piece of everything. They wanted a lot, because they knew that with Fador, they had their golden ticket, and they wanted to play it out as much as possible. And negotiations were very intense

and very confrontational. They got bad, where Dana had to up his security. It got pretty, yeah, it got heavy. Yeah, these dangerous people. These were dangerous people It got yeah, I can tell you more off-air. Yeah. Well, I didn't know that story I'll tell you more off-air. You got you should talk to Dana about it. It got crazy Wow There are why yeah

because I always thought like why they don't bring that guy to the UFC because It's gonna be so fun for the for the fans. They wanted to co-promote, they wanted to be a part of the promotion, they wanted more than they deserved. They didn't just want Fador to get paid, they wanted to get paid, they wanted to make a lot of money and they wanted to get their hooks into the UFC. Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, Russian gangsters. Yeah. Yeah, Russian gangsters. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. Crazy how they rule like everything. Pride was run by the Yakuza. You know, so it was Japanese gangsters and Russian gangsters.

I speak the same language, you know, so they got along fine. But then when they came over to the UFC, the UFC was like, that's not how we do it over here. No, we'll give him a lot of money we want him to fight in the UFC and it never took place unfortunately Wow yeah so crazy yeah so he's about to fight again Fado is gonna fight bare-knuckle yeah I heard something about that yeah I think Conor's promotion I think it's Conor's promotion that BKFD actually do you think he's gonna come back Connor?

If I had a bet no, yeah Why goes back because he hasn't come back yet and he could have you know If he really wanted to he would have been back in the gym had a fight scheduled drug tested clean Training gone through a camp had a fight like he had a broken toe before the first fight with Tran Chandler. I understand that okay Why should you fight in a broken toe especially a guy who moves a lot like Connor he relies on movement so much Yeah, I get it so heal that toe up. What's that? That's two months broken toes two months Yeah, and so then you're back in camp, and then you you reschedule a fight, and then you fight again, but he didn't and also

Partying constant partying all these law legal problems that he has, you know Scooting around on yachts and you know driving around a Lamborghini. He's he's wealthy. He's done Maybe I mean what's really sad is if he comes back when he's like 39 or 40 and his body just doesn't have it anymore. So right now he actually has a great opponent, Mike Chandler. He could fight him. Right. They could fight right now. Because if they put him against Patti, I think Patti beats him easy now. Well, a lot of years off, right? A lot years off, you know on the feet Conor's a motherfucker No, I'd be he's a motherfucker. I I know that yeah can knock out like every if he's still the same guy

Yeah, but the thing is he's 36 now, you know, and if he's natural also reality Okay, when he breaks his leg, he gets off the drug testing, right? Because he's got to do something to heal his leg quicker. So what is he going to do? Well, you're going to take steroids. So if you're going to take steroids

and you're already 34-ish, your endocrine system gets fucked up by taking steroids where your body stops producing testosterone. So I've had explained it to me by scientists before, before and essentially say if you take steroids for six months, you need at least six months before your body starts producing testosterone at a normal level again. Some people think it's twice as long. So that would be a year, a year of no steroids before your body regains its natural testosterone levels. If it does, depending. If it does.

You think that if someone puts steroids in his body, he never comes back as his normal body. Vitor Belfort is the best example of this, right? He's the best guy that we could use as an example. But he took a bunch of steps. He took all the steps. He took like, like. Luke Rockhold said when he was weighing in,

when he fought him, he said, this guy's got muscles on his fucking teeth. Yeah, on his market, exactly, bro. He was shredded. But if you go back to Vitor when he fought Anderson Silva before they had testosterone use exemptions He didn't look like that at all. No, he looked old actually. Yeah like his body was relaxed Yeah, because Vitor yeah, so this is look at the difference before you saw it and after you saw it I mean that is a crazy example

so when he fought Chris Weidman, his body looked soft and like his muscles look empty. They just didn't look the same and that was just a couple of years after the test. They fucked up with the testosterone use exemption because what they did was they're test guys and if you're low on testosterone, oh you can have a testosterone use exemption. But you could get low on testosterone in a night if you wanted to. All you'd have to testosterone use exemption, but you could get low on testosterone in a night If you wanted to all you'd have to do is eat a bunch of shitty food and drink and stay up all night in your body's Natural levels of testosterone would be low so you could go get drug you who has normal healthy levels of testosterone

You could wreck your body on purpose then go get drug tested and they say, Oh, Ilya, you have low testosterone. I'm going to prescribe to you testosterone exemption. And so then you go and take testosterone and you become a fucking animal and you're healthy. You don't need it. So there was a lot of guys that were taking it that didn't need it. So you think that at this point there are guys in the UFC that are taking like steroids, let's say? are guys in the UFC that are taking like steroids. I would imagine there's for sure someone doing something they're not supposed to do. Yeah. Wow. I don't know because at this point I feel that they are so strict with it. They are. They are so strict. There's a lot of guys that do their camps

in faraway lands and I think that like people always just joke around about Dagestan, you know, like try try getting a you Saw the guy into Dagestan Drought this and in Dagestan They they test the cabi for example in Dagestan. No, I'm sure yeah I'm sure they must have and what if someone someone lands from usada? Where some guys from usada and kabebs camp they had like they had some issue some issue. Yeah, they had some I remember like that. But you go over there like and you know you want to get out. You got to be careful.

But I would imagine that if you want to avoid being tested all the time like say like if you are in America and you know you live in Arizona whatever they'll visit you all the time. They'll test you a bunch You know yeah there's some people that have been tested a bunch they get tested a lot and Then some people that don't get tested as much and if you're gonna go and do your camp in Thailand Are you gonna go you do your camp in Dagestan or it's a lot more difficult to get to you to test you randomly. Yeah, but they can anyway. You can trust on if they come or not. But there's short acting stuff. There's like when Alex Rodriguez, is that A-Rod, right?

Yeah, when he was fighting, or excuse me, when he was playing baseball, rather, they were taking gummies, testosterone gummies. And the testosterone literally only lasts for a few hours, and it's out of your system. Wow. Yeah. I never heard that. Yeah, there's certain stuff that you can take,

like EPO, that's very short-lasting, very difficult to test, very short-lasting. And there's a... In my case, I don't like that because I wouldn't feel good with myself. Right. I'm going to feel like I'm cheating. I don't deserve the win because I'm cheating. I'm a cheater.

I can't have that thought about myself. All the time when I walk inside the Octagon, I feel that I didn't cheat and I deserve the win and that's why I'm going to win. Well that's why guys like BJ Penn are so impressive because BJ Penn was clean when everybody was cheating. Yeah. Because back then it was really difficult to test. All they tested was at the weigh-ins.

So at the weigh-ins. So at the weigh-ins, that's like an intelligence test. Like if you cheat and take steroids intelligently, by the time you get to the weigh-ins, you're going to be clean. If you do it with a doctor. I know camps, and I want to say the names, but they had scientists working for the camps. And the scientists, these doctors, would study guys' blood work and make sure that they were clean by the time they got into camp or by the time they got into weigh-ins so that when they're on the scale they still have all the benefits of steroids but they had no steroids in their system

and their body hadn't started to deteriorate yet from the lack of steroids. I know some camps also that they use steroids yeah for sure. For me you can have all the muscles in the world, but if you are not mentally strong, because that's a so specific moment, when you are in the backstage, you need your mind so badly, you need it more than your body sometimes.

Because as I told you, you can have all the muscles in the world, but you need this muscle as strong as possible You know if you know you cheated and you know you're cheating Yeah, that you are not in what you in reality are saying that you are right, right, right? That's a tough one. I don't wanna I don't want to See myself in that situation never that's a champion's mindset. Yeah. Yeah, that's a real champion's mindset. Some guys they just want to do anything to win. They want to do anything to win. And if they have to cheat to win, they'll cheat.

And they they'll justify it by saying everybody cheats. Yeah, I'm a god-believer and in my mindset is like, of course I want to win, I prepare myself to win, but if He destroys my plans, it's because maybe my plans could destroy me. So I don't want to have anything because I want to have it. If He decides it, if God decides to give it to me, I accept it. I will do everything to get it because I decided from all my heart And if he says that if I decided I have the fate I will get it. Mm-hmm So this is the reality is if you give everything you have and you lose you win a lesson

And you realize you're not at the level that you need to be there's never a lose or you win or you learn and learn Learning is also a winning. Right. Where did you develop your mindset? Have you got any mental coaching? Did you read books on psychology? I read a lot of books. I try to read at least 30 minutes a day.

But it's every day. Every day. What you do in your daily habits, it's what makes the difference, right? Because we can decide our future, but we can decide our habits and our habits decide our future. Mm, yes. Yeah. So like, what kind of stuff do you read? I read more like... I read a lot of books. I love reading books, self-development books. Also, how can I tell you...

Yeah, this is the most of the books I read. Self-development books. I read biographies of the people that I like. For example, Donald Trump, Warren Buffett. I read that kind of people. Businessmen? Yeah, I try to. Yeah? Yeah.

Why do you read businessmen's biographies? Because at the end of the day, right now I'm in sports, but at some point I'm going to retire. I'm going to make a, I have to make a living from from something right because I'm not gonna be fighting my whole life and I don't want it even so yeah I want to I want to prepare myself so if you want to have an extraordinary life you have to be an extra extraordinary person right yes yeah absolutely and I'm trying to to become an extraordinary person in all walks of life in all walks of life

Yeah, so do you have an idea of when you want to retire? Mmm, how will do you know till I enjoy 28 28 28 till I enjoy I don't know how many fights maybe Till 32 34 really? Yeah, I don't know till many fights maybe till 32 34 really yeah, I Don't know till I enjoy right now. I'm enjoying. I don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow So you'll take that road when it comes What do you mean? You'll find when it when that happens when you no longer enjoy then you will go on a different path So retire I don't know right now I want to become a lightweight world champion. I want to hold out Bell 2.

So I don't know what's going to happen then. If I'm going to keep motivated... It's kind of difficult. This is a fight game. Fight game is so hard, so hard, because you have to go in and take someone's head off and You can you can't be that soft guy. You know what I mean like that kind guy You have to be you gotta have that testosterone up. You gotta be vicious Exactly. Yeah, you gotta be technical

You gotta be smart, but you also have to be vicious and at same time, everyone from my family is involved in my career. At some point, maybe I will end up doing different things, maybe some businesses. Right now, I'm doing different things, and I'm enjoying it also. So you're doing different things outside of fighting as well? Yeah, I have a promotion in Spain right now. Oh, an MMA promotion?

An MMA promotion. What's it called? WoW. WoW. And the goal with WoW is to, because as you mentioned. When you say WoW, how you spelling that? Way of the Warrior. Oh, wow.

Yeah. So from Spain to get to the UFC before was so difficult. I had to do so many crazy things to get to the UFC. But right now, we create woe. And actually, we are in the UFC Fight Pass. Everyone can get in that promotion fight. If you have the skills, if you are ready, someone's going to see you.

And they're going to sign you in the UFC. The promoter's life is a hard life. That's a hard job. Yeah, you think so? It's very entertaining, to be honest. When I talk to Dana, at least promoting for the UFC, like I was talking to him this weekend, he was telling me all the issues that they're having,

and with different fights, I was asking him some questions, like what are you doing with this, what are you doing with that, and he starts telling me, oh, this guy wants that, and this guy wants to fight this guy. Did he tell you something about me? Maybe, maybe a little bit. If he did, I can't tell you.

I did ask who you're going to fight. And they say, we're working on things. But he was actually specifically talking about what happens if Bilal wins, you know, because Islam and Bilal, they've been talking about Islam fighting Bilal. That's going to happen. I would like that to happen if Bilal have been they've been talking about Islam fighting Bilal. That's going to happen. I would like that to happen if Bilal wins. But that's an if Jack Della Maddalena is a bad motherfucker. He's good, man. That guy's good.

Even if he wins, they're going to make that fight happen against Islam. You think so? Yeah. Well, if Jack Della Maddalena wins, then Jack is the new welterweight champion. And, you know, maybe he fights Islam. That makes a lot of sense. The problem with Islam fighting Balau is that they train together. And I think, you know, they had kind of said that they would never. How many guys we see fighting between each other that they used to train before?

Oh, I agree. I mean, I think they should fight. Yeah, they should fight. I definitely think they should fight. Of course. I think Khabib doesn't like that idea. Yeah. Yeah. That's how I feel. But it's not just that. I mean, Jane is always putting out a million fires.

I mean, think about it. They have 500 fighters on the in the roster at least. And, you know, there's all these things that are happening and like like the Armand Sarukian thing like his back hurts the day of the fight he's got to pull out like this is fucking crazy this is you know what I mean like imagine that you have this whole promotion based around this elite fighter who's who fought Islam in his first fight short notice they go to a very close decision the very close fight Armand's got a lot better Islam's got a lot better then they're gonna fight again and then the day of he hurts his back crazy happens

yeah crazy yeah but if you will be in the Danish place who would be my next opponent Islam 100% 100% I wish they I try to tell him that this weekend That would be a great fight. Yes, that's the fight to make Because you have a world champion versus a world champion like if anybody deserves a fight for the world title in the next weight class It's you it's it's simple It's simple you knocked out Max Holloway. I mean, it's simple you knocked out Alexander Volkonovsky one the greatest of all time. It's simple. That's a no-brainer. That's the fight You know, he doesn't want to fight 45 anymore. What's 555? We're all tighter shot and nobody would argue with that That would be a huge fight. Everybody would get excited about it. Yeah. Yeah

Hopefully they they make that fight happen. Yeah, hopefully I don't any say. Like I said, I'd get rid of the cage. I'd get rid of stand-ups. I'd fuck everything up for them. I would make it less marketable, probably. I would. Anyways, if they give me the fight with Charles, it's going to be a good one. That's a great fight, too.

That's a great fight, too. There's a lot of guys in that division. There's a lot of good fights for you at 155 pounds. Do you have a timeline of when you would like to fight at 155? I would like to fight with Islam, that's for sure. I would like to fight him. But if they don't give you that fight, if they give you like a number one contender fight, when would you like to fight next?

I wouldn't fight for a number one contender fight. Really? You only want to fight for the title? Yeah, of course. Really. Of course. I understand. That makes sense to me. Look, also, it's the most marketable fight. Everybody else is lost to him. I don't care if Islam decides that he doesn't want to fight me.

I don't care. I said, you're going to have to fight me. You say that you are the world champion, you're gonna keep dominating the division, all that. I'm here. You can't keep avoiding me all the time. So you would just sit on the sidelines rather than fight someone else? I don't think that they're gonna do that. I don't think they would put me on a sideline because they asked me to... I worked the belt because I told them that I wouldn't fight in 145 again But I get the promise that I would fight for a title in my next fight, you know, so how much time you will stop me and From the fighting so they did give you a promise that you're next when you vacated the belt

The next course if they give that that chance to everyone Why not to me? Yeah, he gave it to Henry Sejula. They gave me the Conor McGregor to gave it to George They gave it to to John they gave it to everyone but yeah, and I proved that I deserve that chat as you said I knock out a to the all-time grades to a tool of the all-time grades to the greats walk who was like dominating everyone in 145 division and Max Holloway great fighters both of them especially after Max Holloway's victory over Justin Gaethje which is

like the greatest victory of his career yeah to knock him out after that no one did it yeah yeah I agree I mean I'd say world title fight but I don't get to make the rules and the last fight he had wasn't 155 right against Justin Gaethje who also fought for the title yep so yeah and then the other thing is there's not really a compelling challenger at 155 other than you if you look at it like he's kind of cleaned out the division there's no rules no one else. I mean, Armand's gotta build himself back up.

He's not gonna get a title shot. I would put Justin Gaethje against Patty Pimlet, me against Islam. Once I pass him, I get the title, and you put me against Patty, because I think that he's gonna- You think how he's gonna be Justin Gage easy Wow, really easy. Yeah easy really easy. Yeah Wow, that's a crazy thing to say because Justin Gage. He's a fucking animal

Yeah, but he doesn't know how to grapple and No, he's a division one wrestler. He knows how to grapple You don't think he knows how to grapple. He just chooses not to. He chooses to stand and fight. I don't think so. Did you ever saw him submitting someone? I don't believe he's ever submitted someone, but I think that's because he likes to just crush people.

He likes to bang it out and fight. He used to fight. What everyone likes is to dominate people and to win as soon as possible. If you have the ability to submit someone as soon as you can you would do it Mmm. I think that's your mindset. I think Justin Gaethje's mindset is to be the most violent person alive Yeah Yeah And I think that's one of the reasons why he lost some fights early in his career because he took unnecessary chances

And he fought recklessly then as he adjusted later in his career, he fought more intelligently. He took a lot of risks still, but he was more intelligent about it. He was more intelligent about the way he approached fights. And then he started winning and beating guys in that, you know, like where he might have like thrown himself into wars before. Like the Michael Johnson fight was just chaos There's a war just the first fight in the UFC just throws himself into high Yeah, chaos. Yeah, he would just throw he would just try to see he was like Michael Chandler But a better fighter, you know, just more successful at it at a high level

So you pick Justin Gaethje patty. I don't say that I do think that Michael Chandler was 38 years old with a lot of miles on him Although he's a fucking animal and how old is Justin gachi? Just as far 35. Oh 36 turns 37 in November yeah That's when it starts to slip away. If you're natural, everything after 35, like this is one of the most extraordinary things about Alexander Volkovsky. And I don't think that he's the type of guy that takes care of his body all

the time and he's like very strict with his health. I think he slept more at day than at night. Oh you think so so? Do you have any parties? I think so. I don't know. They put the camera on him on the last pay-per-view and he looked like he was so high. High I'm not worried about. What I'm worried about is drunk.

Because high doesn't give you a hangover. High doesn't kill your body. Drunk kills your body. If guys are in between camps getting fat and drinking, that's never a good sign. That's a bad sign. That's because you're not just not training, you're deteriorating your body. You know, if Justin Gates is just smoking a little weed, I'm not worried about that. It's not the best for focus. Yeah, he doesn't seem to be that guy that drinks a lot. No, I don't think so. I don't think so. Cocaine is the worst.

Yeah, when you hear guys doing coke, that's the worst. That's the one that deteriorates you more than anything. I never ever saw a cocaine in my life. Me neither, I never done cocaine either. When I was a kid, I had a friend whose cousin was hooked on cocaine. I got to see it up close. Yeah.

I was like, fuck that stuff. That's a scary one for fighters too to because the thrill of cocaine for some reason is exciting to people who love like exciting things like there's something about fighters or adrenaline junkies. They like to be pumped up. And yeah, Connor seems to enjoy it, which is one of the things that makes me think he probably won't come back. But if he does come back, it's got to be now You know again at 36 years old now Patty Pimlet That's the fight. I'll be that's gonna be a big fight big fight, yeah, but I

Don't even think Connors in the drug testing pool anymore No, I don't think so. I don't believe so. I don't believe so She's gonna Google that find out if he's in the drug I think he's gonna come back Yeah, if they give the the opportunity to I don't know to two guys like I don't know what four years old like Arlovsky You can have so many names that they fought at four years Four years age, why not Conor? I know that you want a world title fight at 155,

but would you make an exception for a Conor McGregor fight at 155? But right now. Right now. No. No. No. Good for you.

Do you think it's gonna be excited if I beat Islam and then I give the chance to Conor? No, I mean like mean like right now before Islam like if the UFC calls you up and says I know you want a world title fight We guarantee you a world title fight after this. We had that talks really What was that talk tell me what that talk come on come on After this one I'm gonna get some calls Yeah, you know how the UFC is they are very specific. Don't say anything right to no one Well, no one's listening. You can tell everybody. Yeah Only couple of million of people

Slip right by yeah, if they offer me a fight against Connor right now It'll slip right by. Yeah, if they offer me a fight against Conor right now, we'll say why not. Why not? Why not? I wouldn't say no. I wouldn't say no. Just for the numbers.

Yeah. Cut of that paper, too, and it hits 2 million buys. Yeah. Why not? That's the thing about Conor is still, even though he might not be the best fighter in the world right now, he's the golden goose. Of course he is.

Yeah. That's something something you can't take away from him. Kind of amazing you know that still he still guarantees that many eyeballs will go to see him you know it just that will be a great one but what excites me more is the fight with patty really yeah that fight excites me even more. And if they could put that fight in Spain, in the Bernabeu Stadium. I know that Dana doesn't like to put the events in the stadium, but that's the only stadium in the world that they can close the roof. Oh, okay. Yeah, and this prepare for that kind of how many people eighty thousand? You get a thousand in Spain easy to get if you're not from in Spain no problem

Oh my god, that would be insane. I'm gonna say Spain for that and and a lot of people could travel from England to Spain Oh, yeah, and that happens very often But if they do it in Spain, it's gotta be on Spain time. They can't do that shit that they did when Leon Edwards fought. It has to be in Spain time, but I think that with the negotiations they are having with ESPN and I don't know which platform they are going to put the UFC events. They're going to ask for space for four or five events in Europe in the prime time. For Europe.

Europe prime time. Europe prime time. Europe prime time is fine because it's in the afternoon in America. That's fine. So the fights at one o'clock in the afternoon, people watch football games a hundred million people watch a little stills to be virgin Market, you know what I mean? Yes, you got 500 million people in Europe. It's more than the United States

Right, right and if they did it on Netflix, everybody has Netflix. Everybody has Netflix that might happen That's why they're in negotiation right now. That will be a Massive one in Spain in Spain. I can't against that that pimple What happened with you two because I saw the video where you guys are yelling at each other It was in a hotel or something. Yeah, he said something about Georgia. Oh, he said something about your country Yeah, what is that? He said like, he said something about your country? Yeah. What is that? He said, like, now I understand why the Russians

are bombing Georgia or something, like putting bombs in Georgia. Whoa. And I'm like, bro. Whoa. Don't joke with that. Yeah, it's a fucked up thing to joke about. You can joke about me.

Say whatever you wanna say about me. Whatever. He's a mushroom, he's a mushroom he is this is that that that don't talk about war because you don't know how is it right that's a crazy thing to say don't say that yeah so that was the beginning of it it just out of nowhere he said that he said that on Twitter. Oh wow. He said that on Twitter. Maybe he was too high, too drunk. I don't know. He was talking shit, you know. I mean it gets people to pay attention. He's really good at getting people to pay attention. Yeah, he is. He's really good at that. I mean he could be the next Conor McGregor star. Like that kind of a star where the whole world is watching. He has that weird personality.

Yes. Yeah, he has that. Well, he's very disarming, because people, they see, I talked about this in the last pay-per-view. I said it's a very sneaky trick, because guys like you, look at you the way you carry yourself,

that's a fighter. Like you look at, that guy's a dangerous motherfucker. But when you see Patty, he's dancing like this, his hair's flopping around like he's in the Beatles. You know, he seems silly, but then he fucks people up. And so, I think people get confused. Yeah, but he fucks people up like Michael Chandler. Right.

But when he faced a real fight, who did he face? Well, he hasn't faced anyone that good yet, but he fucked up Michael Chandler better than Charles Oliveira did. In Charles Oliveira, even this what I was telling you before, like when you got ten loses in your record, that's not one, two, three, four, five, six, that's ten. Like when you walk in with a guy that has ten loses, the level of confidence is completely different. It's completely different than when you walk in with a guy that it's undefeated.

He's a dangerous guy. In the striking, in the ground game, everywhere you look at him, he's a dangerous guy. He never takes a lose. That's a different mentality. You've got to have to kill him to give up. He's not going to even give up. You've got to have to kill him.

In the case of Charles Charles if he finds some adversity He's gonna go to the to the ground He's gonna sit and he's gonna be waiting like till you you end up the fight Mmm, this is what I think this is what I feel this what I was certainly the case early in his career I think things changed with him when he had a child Then he went on that run and became a champion and like when he beat Justin Gaethje when he beat all those guys He was he was pretty elite man He was really fucking good when he beat Chandler when Chandler beat him up in that first round

He came back in the second round and fucked him up who? Chandler Yeah, yeah, I know what you're saying. I get it. There's, Connor's been tested 11 times last year, five the year before, and none this year. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. This year.

He was tested this year? No. None this year. None this year. That's what I'm saying. 11 times last year. Yeah, I'm not sure if he's in the testing pool anymore. I don't know. I don't know. You know, I've heard no plans. You know, the UFC would tell me. I would say, what's going

on with Connor? And I don't even bring it up anymore. I think with him, it's gonna happen like instantly if something happens. Well, that's crazy. I mean, if he he's gonna prepare he needs like a real long camp To really get his body back to fighting shape like real fighting shape and he's got to remember You know what happened when he came back from boxing and then fought Dustin Poirier He was probably gonna face because if you put him against against me. He needs to die and be burned again. When you think about your division when you were the champion at 145, would he have been the fight that you would have wanted when he was in his prime at 45? Would that be the number one fight that you would have wanted at 145, would he have been the fight that you would want when he was in his prime at 45? Would that be the number one fight that you would want at 145?

For sure. Yeah. For sure. My god. For sure. He was a dangerous guy in 145. He was so big. He was big, dangerous. Yeah. He had that knockout power. Smart. Yeah. One shot knockout power. Yeah. He yeah he had that yeah but when he would make 145 I remember that was back when the weigh-ins were literally right there you'd weigh a guy in and then they would cheer in front of the crowd now the weigh-ins are early and it's a ceremonial weigh-in so when Connor would

weigh in he would look like deaf Deaf yeah, see if you can find the video of the weigh-ins with Conor McGregor versus Jose Aldo He looks like he was on a boat in the middle of the ocean Like look at him look at his face Wow look at his face Look at that one right there with Mike Goldberg click that one with Mike Goldberg. Yeah click on that My god look how fucking skinny he looks look at his face His cheekbones he looks like he just got out of like some Russian prison like this you know what I mean? Well that one on the right is insane

It's fucking with muscles. That's insane. I wonder how much weight he lost. I think he walks around and 185. So he lost 40 pounds before he fought. That's crazy. He fought also at the welterweight division. Yes.

He fought. Well, he fought Donald Cerrone, who was really not a welterweight either. He was a 155 pounder, you know, but he wanted to fight welterweight when he came back. Like when they were talking about Chandler, he said he wanted to fight at middleweight. And Chandler was like, okay, like, but, you know, part of me wonders, like, whether he was ever really going to come back, you know?

It's, you know what I mean? I really think that at some point, he's to come back you know it's you know he's got I really think that at some point he's gonna he's gonna come back because I don't think that he wants to leave the sport with a defeat right this what I don't think I think that he's gonna come back try to get the win and then retire in the octagon well I'd like to see that I'd like to see him one more time It'd be good for him to to actually go to a real camp and stop partying You know, we'll be good for him for his family for everyone for everyone, but that standpoint he's gonna stop He's got a lot of legal problems, too

You know, there's a lot going on with him in Ireland, but he's running for the president Well, they're talking about prosecuting him for old tweets to Ireland. Yeah, Ireland is going crazy with their woke shit with The restrictions and censorship the same way the UK is it's it's really scary stuff, but they're prosecuting people for tweets That's crazy. Yeah, England arrested like 4,000 people last year for posting things on social media. No way. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What did they say? You don't have to say anything crazy. You know, you could just say I don't want any more immigrants in my country and they'll fucking prosecute you. It's really crazy. Wow. Yeah. That's not the freedom. No, it's not at all.

That's not the free space. It's totalitarian government and it's scary because they're using it to silence people's opinions. Crazy. See if you can find what's going on with Conor because there was something about Conor McGregor possibly being prosecuted for social media posts from I believe it was 2023 Some recent posts that he had made where they were gonna bring them back up and prosecute him for him

He had also like the case with the run. Yeah, and I think because he wants to run for president Of course, then they're gonna use the law to try to stop him because look He's very popular in Ireland and he might win you know I mean if these people think that their country is being invaded by my ass to some people from Ireland like what are the odds that current becomes the president they told me like probably zero Conor McGregor will not face charges over social media posts made before and during the Dublin riots yeah you know? They said that about Trump too. That Trump wasn't going to win either.

Yeah? Yeah, all the fucking newspapers. Everything was saying, the chances are none. No, but I asked to the people. I didn't ask. I didn't read the... Depends on who you're talking to though. Yeah. You know, it really depends on how he conducts himself. To him. Oh.

To him. Okay. Okay. They're like, to him. Oh. To him. Okay. Okay. They're like, no way. Yeah. Yeah. Look, he should be fighting.

And he should be fighting while he can, because you don't want to be 49 years old, sitting back thinking if you could have just one more, could have got it together if I just stopped partying. I really think that he's going to come back at some point, but we'll see. There's also the problem of that shin You know when a shin snaps like that. That's a nobody really comes back from that He's toys fact he's chin is fact he's body's fact with With that that much parties and drugs and all that you're gonna have to pay that price at some point. Yeah

And you are you are paying the price with your health, which is the dumbest thing you can do in your entire life. It is a dumb thing, especially for an athlete. Exactly. He also suffered a lot with the weight cuts. That's a big damage for your body. That's also one of the reasons why I changed the weight class, because I realized that my health is the most important

thing in my life. You can have everything in this life, but if you are not healthy, you don't have anything. Yeah, when you're cutting that much water out of your body, you're essentially getting to death's door. You're getting to death's door 24 hours before you fight. At a world championship level, which is crazy. You sometimes feel that you're really gonna die.

I wasn't able to sleep in 48 hours at all because I was so dehydrated. My body was so like skinny and I was wasn't dreaming with water with food with everything. I was my social media and rills Everything was about the foot Everything was about foot at that moment. You don't give a fuck about anything material about anything So tell me when you start so if you were gonna make 145 on Saturday, what is your weight cut, or on Friday, what is your weight cut like for the week? When does it start?

And what do you weigh before it starts? Okay, basically I start the weight cut since the first day I started the training camp, which is 12 weeks. Really? Yeah, I'm on like very strict diet and I have only one cheat meal a week on Saturday on Wednesday whenever I choose it. I have just one cheat meal and At the same time you have to perform at the highest level you have to train as a motherfucker all the time and you have like

mmm 1800 calories in your body and you burn four four thousand calories Wow, so you are wasting so much energy, but you aren't getting back a Very low so that fucks with your mind that fucks with your mind and You don't feel happiness you feel like stress depressed You don't find the happiness in anything. They could bring you all the money in the world, but you don't give a fuck at that moment about anything material.

So you're doing it all through camp, but when you get to fight week, what do you weigh at? We do the water load. I start on Sunday with eight liters and I don't have carbohydrates. I don't have any sodium salts and all that Do you drink distilled water still water? Yeah, oh Distilled do you know I'm saying no no no no just just normal water, okay? I'm not having carbohydrates Just normal water. Okay.

I'm not having carbohydrates, sodiums, and fibers. You say fibers? Yeah. Fibers? Yeah, fiber. I only have fat and proteins in very small portions. And I drink eight liters on Sunday, then eight again on Monday, 6 on Thursday, Wednesday I drink 4 I think and then on Thursday I don't drink anything till Friday till the weight-ins.

And before the weight-ins I start the dehydration. Like we do one session in the morning and I have to lose almost from two to three kills and the rest I have to I have to lose at night because I always like to go to the bed on weight. I don't like to wake up in the morning and have it to cut the last part in the morning on Friday morning. When did you start drinking wine before weigh-ins? I did it twice in my career. It was once in Las Vegas. I was supposed to fight with,

I was fighting with Damon Jackson and I had like still six kilos or something like that. That's a lot. That's a lot of weight to cut. And the guy who was taking care of my nutrition, he called us and he told me, drink wine, drink half a bottle of wine. I'm like, you sure? Yes, he told me because if you drink a liter of wine, you're going to wake up the next day if you don't put anything else in your body with two liters less.

Dehydration. Yeah, because the alcohol, it's gonna provocate the dehydration. I did it, and it works. And after that, I did it in my next fight, but then I was like, I don't feel good. I don't feel good doing this in the wake up. This is kind of crazy. It's fun. It's fun because everyone wants to, I don't know, everyone is almost dying that night.

I was like partying with my team, so skinny drinking wine. I'm like, what the fuck we doing? And after one day, I have to face a monster inside the octagon. Experience in life. And so then you weigh in, and then what is the rehydration process like? So I used to drink the electrolytes. And until I don't start to pee.

I don't put any food in my body. I drink almost for three, four hours in small portions. Right now, we are so lucky that we have the Performance Institute. We have great nutritionists in that program that help us to do it from the right way. So I start drinking half liter of electrolytes, for example, let's say for 20 minutes, I have to drink that.

I can't drink more. Then one that 20 minutes passed, I have to drink the another bottle and like that, progressively. And so once you start to pee, then you allow yourself to eat food. Exactly. And what kind of food are you eating? Most likely carbohydrates. I don't use to eat any proteins because it doesn't help you at all to have a great performance in inside the octagon, right? Because the protein doesn't give you any

How say I have to say Glucosa glucose glucose That your body needs at that time you everything you need. It's electrolytes and Carbohydrates, that's all you need not even fibers and carbohydrates. That's all you need. Not even fibers. Mmm. Okay, so like what kind of food? Like pasta? Yeah, pasta. How good does that taste after all that time?

Amazing. Amazing. You could cook the pasta for me that day. I don't know how good you cook, but it would be amazing. Amazing. I don't care about... So you've gone so long without carbohydrates. I have like almost a week and a half without carbohydrates and I'm struggling for 12 weeks because I have only one cheat meal. So once I finish the cheat meal,

I know that in one week, I'm not gonna have another cheat meal. So I'm gonna have to eat whatever they tell me to eat. Like, I wake up, I know that I'm going to have two eggs with one slice of bread, and I'm going to have to train, I don't know how much, in the morning. And then in the afternoon, I'm going to have to train again, and I'm going to have the same food all the time. And the good thing about that is that my wife she was like a very important

part in my last training camps because he made my diet more fun. I didn't have to repeat the food all the time because when I was in charge of that, just imagine what I was eating all the time because when I was in charge of that, just imagine what I was eating all the time the same. Just the same boring food, just get through the month. Because I didn't even have like the opportunities that I have right now. Right now I have a chef, I set up my home with everything. Everything is so comfortable. But before I had to cook for myself, go to the supermarket, doing everything by myself. And it was tough.

So all the foods weighed out, all the calories are measured, everything's very systematic. So with this extra 10 pounds, how much better do you think you'll be able to perform inside the octagon? Because I would imagine physically that's got to take a toll on you. As good as your performances were, and they were spectacular, but as good as your performances were, your body could not have been operating at 100%. 100%. You are going to see me at 155 that I'm going to touch someone and I'm going to take his lights out. Even if I, I don't need to touch his chin.

I just touch his head and it will explode. I feel so powerful at that weight class, so powerful, so stable in the ground. Like do you want to wrestle? Let's wrestle. No problem. I had the gas tank for five days, not five rounds. Do you think that a lot of fighters maybe diminish their potential by competing at a lower weight class for too long? It depends. It depends. Some of them yes, some of them no.

Because I think there are guys fighting in 145 that they could fight in 135 because they are smaller. Like Jose Aldo. Right. Like Jose Aldo. I mean he was one of the best ever at 145 and really looks fantastic now at 135. Exactly. And says this is the first time at 35 in his career that he's ever taken nutrition seriously and had a diet.

But at the same time he was a world champion. Right. For so long. one of the best. One of the best. May he would cut the weight at 135 and he wouldn't succeed at this level. Right, because he wouldn't have the energy. But Jose Aldo was big at 145 back in the day. He would struggle to make 145 earlier in his career, but I just think he wasn't doing it

the right way like you're doing it. I think athletes of today are much more systematic about it. And they have more information about the nutrition. They have we got more help from the Performance Institute. The UFC Performance Institute is incredible. I remember when they first opened it I was a little skeptical. I'm like who's gonna use this? What is the big deal? And then I went there I was like oh okay crazy. This is amazing without them You wouldn't see many of the fights that we have seen a lot of people would miss the weight. Mmm a lot of people

Yeah, so at 155 you're gonna be able to eat more you're gonna be able to train more You'll be able to recover better like everything better. They're really taking care of you. I can't wait. I can't wait to see it. I can't wait to see you. I can't wait. I wanna fight. So, take me through what is a typical training week like for you.

How much strength and conditioning do you do? How much do you concentrate on technique? How much do you spar? Outside or inside the training camp? Let's go with outside the training camp first. So outside the training camp I try to develop my skills in every discipline, like I try to not mix it up. I don't train MMA at all, I do boxing classes,

wrestling classes, I try to learn every discipline Separate why do you do that? because when the training camp comes I Try to mix it up and polish everything that I have been able to learn till that moment You know what? I mean everything that works work for me in the wrestling and boxing I mean everything that works works for me in the wrestling and boxing And in the places where I feel comfortable like that's why I want to develop all the time my knowledge I want to get better all the time and I can get better if I only go and train MMA and I only Drill the same things all the time right my head is like

Getting stuck getting right you know I need to learn new techniques because I I think that I Have much more to learn in every discipline like in BJJ You never end up learning all the time you learn new things you see new things you want to try it and It takes some time that that technique works for you and when you're rolling with someone for example right so yeah one thing is what you know and the other is what you do with what you know. How do you know how much time to allocate to each specific discipline because something like Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

it's a never-ending journey like there's so many techniques It's it's on there's so many different combinations of things you could do to a human body when you're grappling. So the thing about me is like, you have to decide what kind of style do you want to have? Do you want to fight from the guard? say guard guard? Yeah, you want to pass the guard like there are different styles, right? Right but at some point I was like Fighting all the time from the war. I was doing like the beating ballos baby balls everything Because I needed to feel what the people feels When I'm passing the guard the God The guard, you know what I mean?

So the same thing with boxing, for example. Someone has a defensive style, someone has aggressive style, but from distance, someone needs to cut the distance and work more in the body. So I don't know, it's like, it's so difficult to explain to you. I know what you're saying though. I think one of your most impressive performances was Josh Emmett.

Because Josh Emmett, he's such a powerful puncher. He's such a dangerous puncher. But everything he throws you has murder on it. Everything. But you just kind of slipped and moved with everything and just systematically broke him down But you adjusted your style for his danger you adjusted your style for him and just dominated the fight I think that was one of the most impressive performances because it showed how skillful you could be where it's like Imagine if Michael Chandler fought Josh Emmett. It would be fucking madness

Yes madness two dudes just trying to murder each other. Just fucking throwing the haymakers, you know, but what you did was you broke down what he was doing. You found your openings, you started to get your timing, you started to figure out you put all his movements into your computer, and then you rolled with everything, everything he threw you rolled with when he had big shots, you moved with them? All his big shots were coming with the right hand, like he's the type of guy that ends up every combination with the right hand.

So everything I had to do, it's all the time I didn't have to exchange the punches with him. I had to let him throw me all the punches, didn't have to exchange the punches with him I had to let him throw me all the punches roll his right hand and then start with my combinations this is what I really did like I was hurting him with with the calf kicks then I was going for my combinations and long combinations all the time in MMA no one works a long combination, combinations, no one. They always used to do one, two, one, two, three, but no one does one, two, three, three, four, five, six. You know? And like the Jai Herbert fight. Exactly. Usually you're getting two punches, everyone blocks two punches, but after the second

one, they put their hands down again. Then is when I go again like one two one two three four five boom mmm you are not waiting for that and if I change the levels and I go in the head and the body, calf kicks, I go for the takedowns, I mix it up you get crazy. It's interesting that you didn't start boxing until you're 17 because you're probably the best boxer in not just the featherweight division but you might be the best boxer in the sport in terms of your movement and then your one punch power. Your one punch power is pretty fucking crazy which I think you either have or you definitely can develop it and it definitely is

dependent upon technique but either you have power or you don't have power. So did you always notice that? Like from the very beginning when you first started training? I always had power. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, it is. It's a God-given thing. God-given thing, 100%.

I always had that power. I remember myself without much technique, but I was connecting the punch and putting guys to sleep in the trainings. And I wasn't that skillful guy, but I had that power. But you were smart enough, so this is the difference between like a Josh Emmett approach and your approach.

You were smart enough to realize that, okay, I've got this power, but now I need to develop laser sharp technique. Of course, and I have to be able to find the moment. I don't have to just throw it and believe that I have the power. If I connect it, I put you to sleep. No, it's not if I. I'm going to connect you that punch. I'm going to work for that and I'm going to find that specific moment to put your lights out. And I know with everyone even in 155, I know that I'm going to be able to find that moment

where I'm going to be able to connect that one punch or two or three punches. Because sometimes it's not only one. I'm able to combine punches. Sometimes you think that I'm going for your head and I'm going... My main combination is to go to the body. And I go to that with that liver shot and that hurts also oh yeah yeah and little by maybe I I don't knock you out but it takes a lot of cardio from you a lot of movements you start adopting yourself you're

getting like wow yeah he connects me this punch in the chin, I'm done. And you're starting to doubt, and then the doubts kill you at the end. It's like little by little, little by little. Yeah, it's interesting how few guys really work the body well. That's one thing about Jack Delamadalena

is that he's a very good body puncher, which is one of the things that I think is very interesting about this fight with Bala Muhammad. He's a dangerous body puncher. He's very good at mixing up and down. No one usually used to attack the body in the UFC. I don't know why. It's such a beautiful technique to go and work the body. Not only head everyone goes for the head Mm-hmm, but there are also weaknesses in human beings body, which is the the body especially with those little MMA gloves You know everything cards. Yeah, and you're digging digging into that rib cage But it's just it's interesting how the sport evolves and I think when a guy like you comes around that does mix things up So well and does have elite boxing

The next generation will also copy you they will copy your style You know because I think about the calf kick there was no calf kicks forever forever I don't know when they style with the calf Benson Henderson Benson Henderson Benson Henderson he was the first guy I ever saw do him he was doing a lot And I remember pointing it out he wasn't doing it as effectively where he was like crippling guys move movement But he was doing it a lot And then I remember when Dustin Poirier fought Jim Miller Jim Miller almost took him out with calf kicks Like Justin Poirier's calf was destroyed in that fight

And then you know Dustin Poirier became a really good calf kicker after that and then it became ubiquitous everybody has to have a calf kick but it comes from Muay Thai it comes from kickboxing it comes from it does but in Muay Thai they don't throw it very often it's not a common technique in kick boxing or Muay Thai which is interesting it's not as common as it is in MMA it's like a jab, but for the legs. Yeah. It also cripples your movement, which is terrible because you can't punch as hard because you don't have a left leg anymore or a right leg, depending on what's forward. At the same time, it distracts you a lot. Right. You know what I mean? It hurts so much. Yeah, it hurts, it distracts you. You don't only have to think about the hands you have to think about also about the kicks Well is he said that when he lost to Alex Pereira the first fight in the UFC

He said he wasn't hurt that bad with the punches. He said he couldn't move. He said his leg was so destroyed He said my leg my left leg was so compromised I couldn't move and then in the second fight when Alex when he knocked Alex out in the first round He said my leg was fucked already he's like he was getting me again he's so sneaky with that calf kick cuz he throws it he's got that weird style he stands he's standing just kind of throws it out there and you don't even see it coming yes he's not twisting his hips he's not and it's still he hits so hard that he doesn't

have to turn his body weight into it and he's still fucking you up and at the same time he had that muscle memory mm- was like if he starts with a calf kick, I'm gonna be fucked. Yeah, he said that to me. He's like at the end of the round I was like, oh this motherfucker did it again. I can't believe he got me again. He's like my leg was fucked. Then he caught him with that right hand. What's your all-time favorite fire to watch in the UFC? Then he caught him with that right hand. What's your all-time favorite fighter to watch in the UFC? Boy, I don't think I have one. I don't think I have one.

Him in top five. You're in there. You're in the top five. Really? Yeah, for real. I'm always joking. For real, yeah, definitely. How could you not be?

You knocked out two Hall of Famers, two of the all-time greats. Volkanovsky and Max Holloway are all-time greats. Two of the greatest featherweight champions. So if you're a great featherweight champion, you're the greatest in a division that probably has, if not the most skill. There's an argument for the most skill. I think it's 45 and 55. I think those are the two divisions that have the most skill Yeah, so to be a champion at 45 or 55. You're a champion in the most skillful weight class like look at 45 So many fucking killers at 45 now like who was John Silva just did to Bryce Mitchell, and he wasn't even ranked Yeah, you know I mean this guy's a motherfucker man You know and these guys are coming up, but they're so goddamn good and yeah, I hear Rodriguez, you know, you got these guys are so skillful

You got so much time. I don't know what to tell you about Jai Rodriguez. I'm not a big fan of him. Yeah here Yeah, no, okay. No, no, I don't know. I see I Seem he's the type of guy that you don't even need to take him down. He goes to the ground by himself I don't know. He's like very spectacular The way he fights in the striking and the kicks he throws and all that But I don't know. I'm not a big fan of him. I'm fan of Walk and max all away. Well, you know they were the smartest guy Smartest guys that I ever faced inside the octagon

I felt that they were smart. They had that fight IQ. They they know how to fight Do you think max Holloway made a mistake in going up to 55 and then back down to 45 again? Because he got big when you fought 100% Yeah, I think so 100% Yeah He looked too compromised. He looked but he didn't look healthy at 45. He gets crazy for the title shot Mm-hmm. He was like take the gold. Yeah, okay. Yeah Yeah, I mean I understand it. I get it. I understand it and that guy who was the 145 pound champion He knew it'd be hard to make the way but he felt like he could do it But the thing is he he gained so much muscle to get to 55 to fight Geichi

and he did it over a long period of time where he really bulked up well. But at the same time, I don't know, if he wouldn't try it, he would stay for life like with the doubt that if I. Yeah, yeah. So another one is Pereira, because what he's done inside the octagon is so crazy Two division world champions a short period of time and hadn't been fighting MMA for but three or four years Crazy, it was crazy and it's also what he does when he hits people they like what he did to Well, I mean, but it basically what does to everybody when he connects

I mean his his power is just different than anybody did to Jamal Hill one left hook boom and Jamal Hill who's good at taking a shot all sudden. He's gone You know he's just there's something Yuri Prohaska that fight like the the second fight. It's crazy crazy It's just like he hits you one time It's always with with a head kick right head kick in the second round but dropped him with a left hook He was basically done after the first round because it was at the buzzer He hit him with a left hook and then he drops and then the bell rings And then he knocks him out with a head kick in the second round, but he he's just got this

Crazy style that's different than anybody else's style and he's such a specialist Such a kickboxing specialist, two division world champion in glory and then goes on and becomes a two division special and 37, you know, he's older, he's an older guy, you know, to be fighting at such an elite level, you know, John Jones, definitely, John Jones, one of the greatest of all time. I mean, John, what do you think about he's gonna come back? He's gonna fight Tom. Yes, I think you'll fight Tom. I think you'll hang out. You don't think so. No, really? I don't think so. Okay For what?

For glory. He already has the glory. Yeah one more glory before the lights fade. Yeah Yeah, I think John's a lights fade. Yeah? Yeah. I think John's a conqueror. I think he is. I think he can sit back. He's the best of all time. No one can say the opposite of that. He's the best.

The guy developed a spinning back kick at 36. Didn't have a spinning back kick his whole career and all of a sudden knocks out Stipe with a spinning back kick for the heavyweight title at 36, 37 years old. That's crazy. And they showed me a video three days ago, four days ago, John before the fight with Stipe he was practicing that kick at the the fight yes, and he said something like This is the kick. I'm gonna knock him out with this kick and The guy showed me the video that's crazy. Well John's fight IQ is insane insane insane insane

Yeah, he's a smart. He's a smart guy and Did a lot of his career? Partying which is even crazier like Like, diminished his body, did coke. Like, one of the things he said to Daniel Cormier, which is one of the coldest things anybody's ever said, he said, I beat you when I was on coke. That's such a cold-blooded thing to say. It's so cold-blooded.

It's so cold-blooded. He's so crazy. He was so good. but he was so good He was better than everybody in his division. So he didn't work hard Yeah, then when he has to work hard, he's fucking terrifying like when he fought Alexander Gustafson Barely trained they said he barely trained barely was in the gym. They still were really worried about him They were Greg Jackson said they were even considering not letting him find like you shouldn't be fighting. You're not training Yeah, and then he he guts it out in the final rounds wins a decision very close fight

Then they have a rematch and in the rematch fucking trained Yeah, and then he just destroyed him in the room first fight was very competitive very second one Yeah, he don't not competitive at all Yeah, when John is focused and John is in shape and training. He's the greatest of all time I think he fights Aspinal because I think it's gonna be a lot of money. It's it's it's glory and Look Aspinal is amazing. He's unbelievable. He's Fast as fuck for a heavyweight. He's big he can grapple black belt and jiu-jitsu. He's got knockout power But he's never been in deep water

Ever I don't even know if that's gone to a second. I don't want to say that he Doesn't have any chance because everyone has it one punch can change everything and in inside the octagon Of course we everyone think that John John is gonna gonna get it But you can't count it count him out at all the Tom Aspina But I don't think that he's gonna come back me personally Andre loves you took him to the second round. Oh Really? Wow. I don't remember that

And then he TKO'd him. Yeah, that's kind of crazy. if you look at his career. It's all one and two Yeah, and then in Bama, he had a two two round fight That's great, but it's also not great because he doesn't have any deep water experience You know if you're fighting a guy like imagine if he fought Stipe when Stipe was in his prime where he fought Kane You can't have one round fights and expect to beat Kane Velasquez in a five round war because the chances are you're not going to catch him in the first round. And he's going to his cardio is just like an alien. Yeah, but at the same time, you don't know how he's going to look at the fourth and fifth round.

Right. He might be great. He might be great. Sure, he might be great, but he doesn't have that experience. So in his head, you've got to think, there's got to be some, no matter how confident he is, there's got to be a couple questions. If you've never been, like John has no questions, right? There's no questions in John Jones' head. He's gone through five round wars, like the Gustafson fight, five round war, no training

wins. He knows that he's got what it takes. He's got heart It's it's undeniable So there's no questions, but with Aspin all it's like yeah, he can get everybody out of there He's got the confidence that he gets everybody out of there. That's for sure like he's got the confidence if he connects He's so fast and athletic for a heavyweight and he's a legitimate heavyweight like Tom Aspinall is not making 205. He's big. He's big He's a big fucker. He's big. So for him, you know, it's but John Jones is special He's special. He is special and he has that fight that he he's not that type of guy that

He walks in and you for example, I don't know Francis Ninganu You know that he he got that one punch power, but he doesn't have the same level of fight that he has as John Jones. Right. You know what I mean? With John is like, if he feels that you are dangerous

in the striking, he's gonna grab your legs, try to mow you a little bit in the ground. Then if you go in the second round with him in the striking, you're gonna be tired. It also beats the fuck out of your knees that front leg side I really need the oblique kick to the knees a bad guy. He wants to hurt you Try to fuck you up. He doesn't care to go with the elbow with the knee He wants to hurt you John when you know when he fought Tiago Tiago Santos at the end of that fight, Tiago needed two knee surgeries. Both of his knees were destroyed.

And he was basically never the same fighter since. Ever after that fight. What happened with that guy? I never saw him. Never ever. We fought again after that, and he left the UFC, but his knees were never the same. He had multiple knee surgeries after that fight. Crazy.

Both of his knees got kicked out. I mean, he was front leg side kicking the shit out of his knees. And what about you used to train sometimes? MMA? Jiu Jitsu? Mostly Jiu Jitsu. I did Muay Thai. I started in Taekwondo and then I started... I would love to share some training with you. I would love to share some training with you too. I want to see what you do. I watched you grapple with Marab. I was super impressed. I watched a video of you grappling.

I'm like, anyone could do that to Marab. Like, holy shit. Because people think about you, they're scared of you striking. But one of the things, like, you opened up a lot of people's eyes in the Ryan Hall fight. Because Ryan Hall was this weird puzzle.

He was like this elite Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt who'd do a lot of strange things. Like, he would turn his back to people and do weird things. Heel hook BJ Penn like that in the first round. With that Imanari roll. Yeah. But when you dominated him like that, I was like, Jesus Christ. And then you put his lights out.

I was like, wow. Because people think when people see a guy who can strike like you do, they kind of forget about the ground game. They forget that your ground game is very elite too. Which is really interesting because you tend to put people in categories of danger. But with you, it's all danger. You have a very well balanced game, which is unusual. Like Pereira, for instance, doesn't have a balanced game, you know, which is unusual. Like Pereira, for instance, doesn't have a balanced game.

You know, his game is, he's gonna connect and you're gonna wake up, you know, that's all it is. His game is kickboxing. But your game is like, it's everything. It's all over the place, you know, like the Bryce Mitchell fight, it's everywhere. It's stand up, it's the ground, it's comprehensive. It's like Georges Saint-Pierre when he was in his prime.

It was coming from all different angles You never knew if he was gonna take you down. You didn't know if he was gonna strike with you It was all your mind was overwhelmed with possibilities, which is in my opinion what I like to watch That's what I like the most a guy who can do everything. I love specialists I love like Damien Maia because when Damien Maia would get you who'd he clinch you if I go you're fucked back you're fucked to this day the one fight that drives me the most crazy where referee fucked it up was Kamaru Usman and Damien Maya because in the first round Damien Maya had Kamaru Usman's back standing up had one leg laced had his back but it was taking too long and the referee separated them, and I'm like you motherfucker

He's so close. He's so close This is it look at this shit like tomorrow's been some deep shit here He's in deep shit here and the referee fucking separated them This is crazy Doing this this referee this drives me nuts. Back it up a little bit. Back it up a little bit. Because it's before this. It's before this. So, like, once he finally secures it, go a little bit before that. A little bit before.

A little bit before. A little bit before. Do it right from the moment where they clinch up. Okay, right here. So, the moment where they clinch up. Okay, right here. So as soon as he clinches up and he ties that leg, as soon as he gets his hands together, Kamaru's in deep shit right here, deep shit. Kamaru has one loss on his record, and that's by rear naked choke.

And now he's grappling with one of the best to ever do it. To this day, this fucks me up. This is one of the reasons why I hate when they separate fighters. I hate when they stand people up and I hate when they separate fighters. This is a huge mistake here by this referee because you've got one of the greatest ground specialists of all time. Do you think that he was the most dangerous guy in the ground? Yes, in his prime. In his prime, he dominated people. He's just so close, man. Kamaru's in real trouble here.

The way his arm is compromised, behind his back, he's fucked here. You gotta get out of this. You can't get separated. Just because the crowd's booing, the referee's like too involved, get the fuck out of there. Get out of there and let him work

because if he gets to the ground tomorrow might be fucked here and there's two minutes to work there's plenty of time to this day that drives me nuts doing something very interesting there with the with a butterfly yes with that left butterfly yeah he's constantly keeping you off base and you know that if you make any mistakes here that right hook is coming over the arms coming over the top You're gonna soon as he lets go of the yes So as soon as he lets go of that arm that arm that he's got trapped that arm that he's got trapped with his over With his left arm as soon as Camaro

If he gets that arm over the top of the shoulder tomorrow's fucked man This is a terrible spot to be and for the referee to separate them and not let him work, I was talking to Matt Serra about it the other day, and he was like, yes, they fucked them. Yeah, he fucked them. They fucked them. Kamaru wins this fight, and then, you know, the world changes.

It changes, because this could have been a loss, and then Kamaru could have been back to the drawing board board It's a bad situation to be in with the ground See look now he has this advantage of being able to stand up again like why why does he have this advantage? Why why you should be back where you were? There's no reason to separate those guys referee mistakes are crazy, you know like there's there's moments in fights where Referees make mistakes where a fighter's whole career just changes just flashes before their eyes The other day also something happened in the in the paper in the car with Danny. Yeah. Yes. Yes

I don't know why he stopped the fight. Yes that that was a bad decision too. That was bad as well. Same thing. Sean Woodson, yeah. I think he would win the fight anyways, but he didn't have to stop the fight. It was a bad stoppage. It was a bad stoppage. Yeah. Yeah, there's bad stoppages, man.

I mean, it happens. It happened to Jared Cannonier. Jared Cannonier had a bad stoppage. I guess, who was that against? Was it Imamo? The war stoppage. I guess who was that against? Was it Imamo? The worst stoppage? The Robbie Lawler against Ben Askren. Oh yeah, that was the worst one. That was the worst one. They thought he was out and he wasn't out. I was so excited for that fight.

Yeah. Robbie was beating the fuck out of him too before that headlock. Yeah, that was terrible. That was a bad stoppage. Yeah, there's been some bad stoppages. But you know you know look the referees have the second hardest job in the sport the first hardest job in the sport Yeah, here it is. This is Jared Cannoneer and aim of off so he gets cut look at that right there. That's crazy That's a crazy stoppage. He stopped the fire. Why yes no yeah look at this He got hurt he got hurt, but he's covering up. And by the way, Jared Cannonier can fucking take it, man. He comes back. Jared Cannonier came back against Rodriguez in his last fight. He was hurt way worse than this, and he came back to score a knockout. But that was a crazy stoppage. It just, you know, like I said, referees have the second hardest job. Fighters have the first hardest job.

Second hardest job is being a referee. Because those moments when you make a decision, like, ah, you can't take it back, the fight's over. That's true. It's terrible. It's hard to be a referee. Yeah. And then there's the judging.

Some judges. The judging, yeah. How do they? That's also something that drives me crazy? It's like How do they keep having the same bad judges come back again? That's what's crazy because the UFC has no control of the judges. The judges are all established by the athletic Commission. Yeah, so Sometimes you get great judging and like oh the judges good tonight These are good decisions and sometimes you get what the fuck is going on

Yeah, sometimes judges are horrible. This horrible doesn't make any sense know if they Give you more points for wrestling for striking for defending Right, it's crazy. Well, some judges just aren't qualified. They don't have a martial arts experience They don't don't have a background. You know, they just learned how to judge that you can't I don't have a martial arts experience. They don't have a background. They just learn how to judge. I don't think you can do that. I don't speak Spanish. But if you taught me some Spanish and then I was judging Spanish, would I? You know what I'm saying? I'm not qualified. Right?

Crazy. You are not. So if you have a guy who doesn't really understand who's got the dominant position, like maybe you see a bullshit guillotine that has no chance. It's not like they never fought. They're not even never trained. Right. Exactly. Most of them. I remember early on in the UFC, one of the judges turned to one of the people next to this person. It was a woman.

She turns to this person and goes, what is he doing? Norway. Yeah. Yeah, what is he doing? Someone was trying to get a Kimura. She's like, what is he doing? She didn't know what a Kimura was. So how did they get there?

They were boxing judges. So the boxing judges, they started using them for MMA fights with no martial arts experience at all. Never stepped on the mat, never put in a mouthpiece, never got punched in the face. That's crazy. That's crazy. They don't know how it works. And it's they're judging at a professional world championship level. At the highest level.

It's crazy. It's crazy. I think they should have more judges. Let me ask you something. What do you think was the the key of success of the UFC? Like it was Dana White. It was the matchmakers. There was the fighters. It was the promotion What it was I think the big thing was the ultimate fighter I think everybody kind of agrees into that the ultimate fighter reality show What what made the UFC huge was that first season of the reality show because this was 2005.

So reality shows were really popular back then. This is Survivor and Fear Factor and all these reality shows and Big Brother. And so they had this reality show that people were watching with fighters and then they have the finale. And in the finale, Forrest Griffin fights Stefan Bonner and it's such a crazy fight that people are just telling their friends. The ratings were going up as the fight went on. The Fertitas, the people that owned the UFC before this current company, they were in the hole $40 million and they just kept losing money. They said, listen, this is the last. They were going to sell the UFC at one point in time and then they got to this point where

they're like look let's just try this one more thing let's just try this one more thing and they they did this this reality show and the reality show worked and then 2005 and then they had Chuck Liddell and Chuck Liddell was the perfect poster boy for this new cage fighting thing this fucking maniac with a mohawk and a tattoo on his head and he's just crushing everybody. You know, he was the perfect guy because the fights were so exciting and he had this insane style. This insane, almost like Michael Chandler style but better. Very entertaining style. Very, very entertaining. Just warriors.

He was a good boxer. Good striker. Fast hands. Yeah, fast hands, vicious knockout warrior. He was a good boxer. Good striker. Fast hands. Yeah, fast hands, vicious knockout power. And he was a wrestler, but he didn't wrestle anybody. And he was a heavyweight. Light heavyweight, yeah. Big guy.

Yeah, he was a light heavyweight. Big guy, chaos, people with one punch. And you know, it was perfect for the sport, because like he was so exciting and he looked the part. He was like a maniac. And after we'd win he'd go, ah, and run around the cage. It was so exciting. So exciting. He looked the part he was like a maniac and after we'd win he goes and run around the cage so exciting so he was the poster boy he was the guy he was the guy that put the sport on the map because people would watch him they

go yeah that time like timeline of MMA was so fun it was with Rampage Jackson also oh yeah and then when Rampage KO'd him you know he became the man and you know and then John Jones comes along, and poof, it's like the sport, that's what's crazy about John, right? John's been dominant now for what, 15, 16 years? That's nuts, man. That's why I say he's the best.

He's the goat. He's the goat. I don't know how they put him as the number one pound for pound. He's the number one pound for pound. You know, it's just because he doesn't fight as often as Islam. Islam's defended his title more recently, more often, against top flight competition, whereas John's, you know, John takes a year off, does a year off here, a year off there. But when you look at the overall record, the overall career, he's the greatest of all time but when I when I talk about like just technique you gotta listen the other thing about

Mighty Mouse too man Mighty Mouse in his prime was a bad motherfucker man he would do shit the guys like suit when he suplexed Ray Borg and caught him with an arm bar in the middle of the air and finished him you don't think so? I see your face I see your face no no it's not like I don't know I never was a big fan of him no no no I think when you call yourself a Mickey Mouse mighty mighty so I always thought that he was a Mickey Mouse. Bro, how the fuck you calling yourself a Mickey Mouse? He was a good fighter. He was a good fighter. He was a very technical fighter. He dominated the whole division. How many times he defended his belt?

Many times. Fourteen times? Many times. Twelve? He fucked a lot of people up. But then there's an issue where the quality of the competition in the 125 pound division back then Was not at the level that it is now like Pantoja. He's a bad motherfucker I would have loved to see Alessandro Pantoja versus Mighty Mouse in their prime Pantoja is a fucking animal man. That guy's a fucking animal. There's a guy coming up in

125 That guy's a fucking animal. There's a guy coming up in 125. He fought in the last paper via London. His last name is Kawana in 125. He's going to be a problem in that division. He's a very skillful fighter. Well, I think like all weight classes, now you have the best fighters of all time. Because we see guys from the Dana White Contender series now that are coming along that that enter into the UFC for their first

fight and you see these guys like Jesus Christ this guy looks like he has 15 pro fights in the UFC they look elite you know that's a cool program also a Dana White Contender series that's something cool because they have some story behind them before they get to the UFC. And that's cool and actually they make a good matchmaking also for that fight. I like to see sometimes they know a contender series all within some fight nights. Yeah, you get to see guys, well that's where we found Sugar Sean O'Malley. You get to see guys, I prefer that to the Ultimate Fighter because I don't want to watch all the in the house bullshit and all the games

that they play. I don't care about all that. I don't care. I just want to see him fight. Not anymore. But before it was very entertaining. In the beginning. Yeah. In the early days. But I mean, now they're on like season 2000. Like who fought? There's been so many seasons. Like I can't even keep track. I forget who won You know, there's so many sewers, but the my point is that the caliber of new guys when they're just entering the like Mauricio Rufi perfect example. Yeah, you see this guy first fight. I have lightweight, right? Yeah, he's fucking huge You see this guy first fight in the UFC. You're like, whoa That's fucking huge. You see this guy first fight in the UFC, you're like, whoa, this guy is elite already. Same thing with John Silva, elite already.

These guys, they're entering into the sport at a very, Carlos Prates, same thing. Right away, you're seeing a very high level right away. I just think that because there's so many guys like you to watch, there's so many guys like, you know, Hamzah and all these people, you get to see elite talent. So these young fighters that are coming up, they have a higher level to aspire to. That's true. Now, like, the sport is growing. The talents are better than before. Yeah.

Because the sport has developed so much that right now you have so much experience. You can learn so much about the game, like, even in YouTube. You go on YouTube, you can learn everything by yourself. I think in the future, guys like you will be everywhere. There will be only guys like you at world championship level. I don't think there'll be any specialists anymore. I think there'll be guys who are elite everywhere. There will be only guys like you at world championship level. I don't think there'll be any specialists anymore. I think there'll be guys who are elite everywhere. Everywhere. This is what I was saying like all the time. Now it's time for the new generation. What's the new generation? That if you want to be the best, you have to be the best and

everywhere the fight takes the place. And the ground and the best and everywhere the fight takes place. And the ground and the wrestling and the striking, you have to be good everywhere because that's how the sport is developing right now. Because before you were good only in wrestling you would take people down and not probably you could become a world champion but right now so tough so tough the competition all the time is higher and higher and higher and there's more knowledge in the sport. Yeah there really is it's it's very inspiring and it's very interesting because there's no other sport where you could go back and

look at it from 1993 to 2025 and it's almost like a completely different sport. The athletes are so much better than they were. I mean even from like 2000, go back to 2000 and watch the sport and then watch it today, at least in the UFC. It changed a lot, everything. Even the production. Everything yeah, everything. Everything. Changed everything. I mean it's so interesting because it's the one sport also that translates... It translates to all languages. Like everybody understands it.

But UK is so special because you saw the sport growing since nothing. And you saw so many great fights in front of you. Yeah, I'm very lucky man Yeah, that's I feel very for what about what about you? like do you have a plan where you want to retire or you are just enjoying and you love what you're doing because I Think that it's a I don't know you are enjoying a lot. Yeah, I just enjoy it I don't think about retiring. No, no if Dana White quits on my quit, but that's it. Yeah. Yeah It's actually my contract No, yeah, if he leaves I leave. Yeah, so in my contract if he leaves, I don't have to stay

Why that Something person I wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't for him. Yeah. Yeah, he's my friend. He talked me into doing it I mean I started working for the UFC before him I started working for the UFC in 1997 when it was nothing then nobody was watching it was we did it at a Small like a high school auditorium in Dothan, Alabama. You had to take a propeller plane to get there Scary ass planes and That was the first time Vitor fought. Okay. I was actually training at the same gym as Vitor when Vitor made his debut Vitor was 19 years old and We were at Carlson Gracie's star very young. Yeah. Yeah, we were at Carlson Gracie's gym in Hollywood, Hollywood, California

That's where I was training. I just dumb luck. I was a white belt. I just started so you How old you were when you started like training or you had some relationship with the sport? Well jiu-jitsu, well martial arts I started when I was 15. Well I started when I was 14 but really seriously when I was 15 and then I competed in taekwondo from 15 to 21 and then I kickboxed until I was 22 and then I was doing comedy at the same time and then I realized like I was half in half out. Something crazy about you is when I hear you explaining some positions I'm like this guy has to know how to fight, have to do it because the way he is explaining it I couldn't be able to explain it and I'm a world champion. I know the game but

you explain like way better than anyone else. I think that you put ten world champions together you still explain much better than anyone else. I think that you put ten world champions together you still explain much better than all of us. Oh thank you thank you very much. Well I learned how to explain it because I learned how to teach people that didn't know what was happening once it went to the ground right because in the beginning nobody understood the ground game. Exactly. You know and I'm a black belt jiu-jitsu so when it goes to the ground I can explain what's happening. Very specific. Yes. Well you have to be specific because some people don't know. Like sometimes I'll be watching with my wife at home. Like

we watch fights that I'm not calling and she's like what's going on? And I'll be like his right arm is in trouble right now. Like see where his elbow is? Now if he can get his elbow past this point he's fucked. I'm like okay now he's fucked and then I would explain it and I would say now what he's gonna Do he's gonna take his right leg. He's gonna wrap it over the top. Oh, he's got it. Oh, he's got okay He's gonna cinch the left leg over the top. That's it You're the best yeah, but that's it's just I it's you can't you live it passion Yeah, either you love it, or you don't love it Yeah, and if you don't love it, you can't pretend it won't work

No one's gonna believe you like if you're just a regular sports guy say like you call hockey and they hire you You're gonna learn about MMA and you're gonna call MMA Come on. Come on. There's no you're not gonna be able to do it Right, of course, you got to do it like you like if I was calling hockey I'm like, yay, this fucking puck went in the net. Whoo Shit, I don't give a shit if the puck goes in the net It doesn't mean anything to me. Yeah, but when someone gets your fucking neck Yeah, and you can see the guys you gotta tap it tap it that that to me is life That's everything that is like it's not just winning. You're not just winning. You're you killed that guy

You can say that. Yes yes you we can see your passion yeah like even right now I'm here I feel your passion so I say I feel your your passion like you passionate about what you think and that's something that I admire people like you well I wouldn't do it if I didn't feel that way I don't have to do it I don't do it for money I just do it I mean this is only person I work for is the UFC. Everything else I do for myself. Everything I work for myself. I'm self-employed, except for the UFC. But I've been working for them for 20 fucking three years? Yeah, 23 years.

23 years. Yeah. And then before that, I did it two years before that. So it's 25 years total. And when was the moment? Maybe I'm going like too deep, but I wanted to ask you this. When was the moment when you feel like I'm succeeding in life? I feel that I'm having success. And what's for you actually success? How do you describe it? Well, I guess the moment was when I didn't

worry about success anymore. I don't think about success. I think about what do I enjoy doing and am I doing it the best that I can do it? That's what I think about. I don't think, oh, I'm going to make more money. Oh, I'm going to do this and I want this goal and that goal. I'm a process-oriented person. I think about the process of what I'm doing and then the results come so I think like what am I doing?

Am I doing it the best that I can do it? And if I'm not I better I had better either quit if I don't want to do it anymore If I'm like this why I stopped fighting I was there was no money in fighting when I was fighting there was no money There was no UFC, and I was just getting brain damage for no reason I was sparring and having fucking headaches every night I was like what am I doing with my life? And then I would also meet guys in the gym that were punch drunk and they those guys scared the shit out of me It was back then everybody was stupid too and like and you know this is 1989 everybody was stupid

They just beat the fuck out of each other. They didn't there was no like sparring You know like technical sparring it was sparring. It was just wars. It was just fights, always fights. Got you. And there was no future. And I still like that in some gyms. Yeah, a lot of gyms, a lot of gyms. You know, some gyms are intelligent,

but there's a lot of gyms that are stupid. I don't use to spar at all. Really? Yeah, I don't spar, only in training camps. But I see you spar in training camps. So it's I don't spar. Only in training camps. But I see you spar in training camps, so it's only in training camps. Only in training camps. So when you're not in camp, what do you do? I do like, as I told you, sparring, maybe in boxing, but before I used to go like more crazy than now. Because before I had like more ego, I wanted

to prove myself like I can knock you out, I can submit you, I had I wanted to prove myself like I can knock you out I can submit you right I can do this and I get but once like you you winning fights you're growing as a person you're like I don't need to prove anything here and in the gym I know what I'm able to do and the competition is the day when I have to fight. The fight, that's the day when I'm get paid and that's it. I'm not gonna damage anyone, no more. Because sometimes you knock people out and then you go back home and you feel bad.

You're like, I could not doing it. Right. And he's suffering right now. I sent so much people to the hospital So much people to the hospital. I'm sure I've seen a video and I Opened yeah so much damage that right now. I'm like no no no sometimes people comes to me like let's part. I'm like I Recommend you to know I Recommend you to know

Yeah, that's good advice Yeah, it's interesting right it's like the your ego can help you Because your ego is what makes you want to be great, but at a certain point in time You got to put a leash on it. Yeah, you got to say not not right now motherfucker I let you go when when I say sick him, then I'm gonna let you off that leash. But not right now. And like that's, Marcelo Garcia always used to say that

about Jiu Jitsu, that you have to open up your game in the gym and don't be afraid of it being tapped. He goes, you gotta be open. You gotta take chances in the gym and learn and put yourself in bad positions on purpose. And you might lose training sessions, but that's not what's important What's important is growing I see a lot of guys struggling with that

Like they don't want to lose in training I'm like a lot of guys never develop a guard because they never want to be on their back There's a lot of guys like that. They have no fucking guard. No, which is crazy. It's crazy There's black belts out there that they get them on their back They look like a turtle. Because they don't want to lose. Exactly. They don't know how to lose.

If you top out, no problem. You get better. Yes. Like, how I don't put myself in this position. But that's the fascinating dance of the mind that allows someone to become a champion versus someone to become just a good fighter. Like whether you can figure that out, like when to put your ego on a leash and when to be able to look at yourself objectively. Like what you're doing with separating all of your disciplines I think is very important. I think that's a

very interesting way that you put it because I think it's a very intelligent way to approach it. Like get very good at your boxing, get very good at your Muay Thai, get very good at your Jiu Jitsu, but do it separately. Like every week, every Sunday, I sit down and I do my schedule by myself. Like on Monday I'm going to do boxing a day from this hour to this, then I'm going to do afternoon Jiu Jitsu. And how do you decide what you're gonna do depends of how I feel What I want to what I want to do what you want to work on what I want and what I want to work on

And what I feel like I have to develop something what they want to do. What's What do I feel in reality? It's not like all the time I'm gonna do this because I have to do it. No, I don't have to do anything. I choose to do it because I enjoy it. Every time I go to training, I enjoy it. I don't do it because I feel forced. Sometimes in training camp, yes,

I feel forced because I feel tired. I don't have full in my body. I don't have any energy. And I have to do it because I'm forced. But outside the training camp, I enjoy it. Even if I retire tomorrow, I would keep training like that because that's something that I enjoy and you said something very interesting before that like right now I'm in in the moment of my life where everything I do I do it

because I enjoy it I don't't do anything to make anyone happy. I don't live a life dreaming to have another one. I just enjoy the moments I'm living right now. That's so important. That is so important. It's so important to be satisfied with your life. So important to just live in the moment. It's so hard for people to do. It's so hard to just live in the moment.

It's so hard for people to do. It's so hard for people to do, especially if you've fucked off too many times. You just like made too many mistakes and slacked off and lazy and... This is the best moment we have right now. Right now. This is it. This is the best moment. Yeah. This is who we are.

Yeah, it is, it is. No one knows what's gonna happen tomorrow, so. And you know what's really important? hearing a guy like you say this hearing a guy like you say this to young people out There that are listening. They're just not sure like how to approach life Because the way you think about life in the way you decide to approach life can change You're the whole direction of your future 100% and so a young guy is probably listening and change the whole direction of your future. 100%. 100%, and so a young guy is probably listening.

Guaranteed, there are people, not just one, many young people are listening to you talk right now. I'm sure there's many people come to you, like Joe, tell me the secret. There are no secrets, there's no bottom for the elevator. Exactly. Like everything in life you get step by step. The slow is the fastest way to get where you want to be.

I was talking to David Goggins about that. You know who David Goggins is? Yeah, of course. Yeah, fucking maniac. David Goggins said, there's no finish line. He's like, it never ends, or it never ends. It never ends. You never make it.

You ever feel like you make it? I'm like, you never make it. There's no making it. It's bullshit. Of course. One day you don't think about it anymore, and you just, every day you ever feel like you make it. I'm like you never make it. There's no making it. It's bullshit One day you don't think about it anymore and you just every day you're just trying to get better Of course, and if you don't feel like that, it's not fun. If you're not really Trying to do something difficult and aspire to greatness and just trying to do your best all the time You don't have satisfaction in your life. 100%. In everything.

Some people think that like, you accomplish something and that's gonna make you happy. That's bullshit. Well, you know, I think also, there's the poison of social media. Because social media poisons people to think that one day I'm gonna make it, I'm gonna be like,

Conor McGregor driving my yacht around. Like those videos are so bad for you Those videos of people like look at me. Look at my watch. Look at my diamonds. Look at this Look at these girls don't you wish you were me Everyone's showing you the best part of their life. Yeah, no one is gonna Show you how they are struggling the problems they are facing in the daily base I mean like no one is gonna show you that no one's gonna show you how they are struggling the problems they are facing in the daily base I mean like no one's gonna show you that no one's gonna show you look. I have a pimple here in my face No, I'm gonna use a filter to

Hide that yeah, it's it's not good. It's not good for young people That's for sure because they aspire to all the wrong things yes young people today whether they want most of them just want to be famous They want to be famous and they think that money makes them rich. And your skills make you rich, not the money. If you don't have the skills and you don't have the mindset, you're gonna keep poor all the time. Not only that, you're not gonna have the satisfaction

of knowing you got really good at something. There's something about getting really good at something that gives you a deep satisfaction that's not available anywhere else. If you just win the lottery, those are the most depressed people in the world. They all go broke. They win the lottery and then everybody wants money from them

and then they feel empty and hollow and they don't know what to do with themselves and now they don't have any goals because they have $100 million in the bank. They don't know what the fuck to do. But in reality, they don't have any ability. They don't know what the fuck to do. Yeah, but in reality they don't have any ability. They don't have nothing to enjoy with. Right. I say that success comes from not worrying about money.

Success doesn't come from making a lot of money. Success comes from now I have to think about that. Money is not the thing. Now I think about what am I doing? What am I doing? I want to be the best parent I can be. I want to be the best friend that I can be. I want to be everything I do. I want to do it to the best of my abilities. You are becoming the best person you could be.

Yeah, the best person you could be. When I was a kid, my martial arts instructor told me this that I'll never forget and I say it all the time, martial arts are a vehicle for developing your human potential. Through that struggle, through that difficult thing, you will learn how to be better at everything. 100%. 100%. That's what I think life is about. And that's why martial arts are so exciting to me. You know, people think, oh, you like violence, like that's not it. That's why I don't like slap fighting. I think it's stupid. You stand in front of each other smack each other in the head I want to see a guy

Enter into a cage fully prepared with skills against another guy fully prepared with skills I always describe martial arts mixed martial arts in particular is High level problem solving with dire physical consequences. That's what it is. It's a problem solving with dire physical consequences. That's what it is. It's problem solving with dire physical consequences. That's so cool. Yeah, that's what it is. People, most of them, they didn't understand what's behind a fighting game. It's not like only violence.

You have to prepare yourself. You have to be smart. You have to be, you have to work smarter than the other guy you are going to face. There's so much factors that it's going to play out that they, it's so much sacrifices that someone has to make before getting in inside that octagon. It's not only fighting. It's more than that. I don't know. I don't, it's, I love that. I don't know. I don't. It's I love that. Yeah. Most of the people before

they used to see fighting as something very violent in Spain. They hate it. Right now. It's becoming bigger and bigger and bigger. And they're starting to love that. And I saw that since the day I started because I used to say to the people like 10 years ago in Spain What you doing? I'm fighting. Ah, don't do that Start learning something some start starting. I'm like I'm starting Everyone choose a career in his life. Someone wants to be a doctor. Someone wants to be a Constructor and someone wants to be this or that, I wanna be a fighter. Yeah.

And I have to learn to be a fighter also. But by your example, by being a true champion, and by living the way you live, and by performing the way you perform, you will change people's opinions. And they will see it, and they will say, oh, this is different, this is not what I thought it was. This is something special.

Yeah, for sure, brother, for sure. It's in the cards. Well, listen, my friend, thank you very much for being here. I appreciate you very much. I'm a big fan and I can't wait to see you inside the Octagon again and all the best. Joe, thank you very much, brother. It's been a big pleasure for me to be here with you.

Thank you very much. All right, bye. My pleasure. It's been a big pleasure. Thank you very much. All right. Bye, everybody. Bye.