The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #170 with Michael "Venom" Page

Episode Date: October 3, 2025

Joe sits down with Michael "Venom" Page, a professional mixed martial artist currently competing in the Welterweight and Middleweight divisions of the Ultimate Fighting Championship.www.ufc.com/athlete/michael-page Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at https://drinkag1.com/joerogan 50% off your first box at https://www.thefarmersdog.com/rogan! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joe Rogan podcast checking out The Joe Rogan experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night All day We're up All right MVP in the house The most enigmatic

Difficult dude to solve In all of MMA That's you man Bro you know what I always I want to start Simply because What you have done for me

specifically, I get a lot of criticism, a lot of hate, and especially obviously jumping when I first got into the, into the MMA world. New to me, you know, I'm just like, okay, let me just be myself, do my thing. First fight goes well, land this crazy kick, goes viral, and I get nothing but hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate. But then having prominent figures like yourself that are constantly have been champion my style champion champion in the the points element of things I just appreciate you for that oh my pleasure brother I appreciate you it's almost like we called for you because there was a time in the early days of MMA like in the early 2000s where I was like this is what's missing this what's missing is

point fighters and people would like mock me they're like no no no no like I've sparred with these dudes you can't hit them it's a different thing i'm like they have a very specific skill that skill of closing distance and being elusive yeah yeah it's not like any other sport it's almost like fencing and mma combined or and martial arts combined yeah yeah i always tell people that like most of the combat sports in terms of kickboxing the full contact side of things is more to do with the there's a fixation of power knocking people else whereas our element is just the speed element Yes. Getting in and getting out.

Yeah. Not getting in touch. Like you said, the tag kind of feel fencing, similar kind of footwork and yeah, just not many people had decided to cross over to any kind of full contact world really and he had the likes of Wonderboy Thompson. Raymond Daniels. Raymond Daniels. You and Raymond were the most prominent ones in him and glory.

Of course you. Yeah, yeah. Well, he did a little bit of M.A. A little bit M. Yeah. But you're more prominent in M.A. Yeah. The point was that this was an element that when I remember when I was doing Taekwondo and I would fight in tournaments, I would occasionally fight in point fighting tournaments.

I'd fight a guy like Mafia Holloway or one of these guys that were really good. I'm like, this is crazy. This is such a crazy skill. Very different. And when I saw M.MA where a lot of guys were just like real flat foot and waiting, I'm like, there's a giant opening here. And then you came along. And you really were the proof of concept. And I was like, okay, this is it.

You get a world champion at that who figures all the other stuff out because essentially striking is striking. You know, you can learn throwing leg kicks differently. You can learn, you know, different stances and movements. The grappling is the big heat. That's the big hurdle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But once you can solve the takedown defense and some of the grappling hurdles and you've actually got some mission victories, then you've got a real problem because every fight starts standing up. Exactly.

Every fight starts standing up with a big-ass fucking cage. It's a big ass cage And I see guys like Kevin Holland Like he's like What the fuck do I do with this guy? He hated every moment of it I could feel it But that's just part of my style

Is that kind of frustrating People because it's just so unfamiliar For someone like yourself You would kind of be in there Whether you're successful or not You'd understand what's happening And you'd be calm enough still To be like I need to know how to figure this out

because I've experienced this before. Yeah. For someone that's never experienced, and because there's few of us in the MMA world, who do you go to to train? There's very few people that are really good at that. Yeah. And like I said, Wonderboy Thompson,

yeah. He, you know, a friend of mine, obviously me and him and, you know, just us getting on. And he's even said people have contacted him. Like, oh yeah, I'm fighting MVP. Like, I want to train with you. He's like, I want MVP to win.

So. I can't help you, bro. I can't do anything. Well, it's good for the sport. Yeah. It really is because, you know, like, think about there's certain techniques to just come along like the calf kick. And all of a sudden, like, how was this? People have been kicking legs for so long.

How is this kicking a different spot on the leg kind of revolution? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We need to see that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think the introduction of you is going to make a lot of these guys that are like high-level point guys go, hmm, there's a spot there for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the open, look, there's always an advantage in the fact that every round starts standing up. As long as you have take down defense, every round starts in your realm.

And your realm is different than all the other stand-up realms. It's totally different. And if a guy is a plodding guy and he thinks, oh, this is my world. That's how your world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not your world against someone who agrees to fight the way you fight. A hundred percent. Yeah.

And I always say that is because, you know, I've come up against guys and was like, man, he can, he's got big. big hit and a big punch on him and i agree i'm like yeah i get it but power only means something if you land yeah and my whole element is like not being touched it's also fucking with people's heads yeah one of the things you did during the jarrick cannon ear fight after you hit him you're like calm down calm down i was like oh no because you imagine just getting popped your eyes are running your nose hurts and this dude standing in front of you going calm down calm down like no We did it. Oh, no.

It's psychological warfare. But that's obviously that's kind of like part of my personality coming out and the entertaining side of me. And a lot obviously added to the criticism that I would get, which because of how I would make my opponents feel in terms of their frustration and then obviously the antics on top of it, so many people, the main term that came with me was like, oh, he's fighting cans. He's fighting cans.

that my whole career was like he's fighting cans like he can't but i always say to people is i'm just making it seem a lot less difficult than it actually is these guys are super talented fighters i'm just not fighting on the same wavelength and timing as them as you said these guys that plod around they're so used to it so when they're fighting other people it looks very even and when they fight somebody that they just can't get their hands on yeah and they're getting frustrated on top of that so it's the mental side of the physical side and you have a lot of power so there's consequences yeah there's consequences it's not like you tip you know tipy tapy yeah yeah every now in that like the

cyborg fight was one of the craziest knockouts in all of mma history I you know one thing actually wanted to do actually brought some gifts for you but one of the things actually wanted to bring for you don't tell me you brought a piece of his head no he would have me have to have to leave it actually wanted to we basically had a poker ball very specific one and they messed up on delivery but I'm going to get it to you in Vegas so when we go over to Vegas I'm just making sure

I get that to you because again it's something that you've spoken about with me and it's a big part of my history in MMA just that cyborg fight that was the most gruesome injury I've ever seen I've seen a lot of broken bones I've never seen

someone with a caved in head the doctors were saying that what we were hearing back from it said he's only ever seen that in a car accident never in that's his head that is so crazy yeah yeah yeah yeah

and that was his last fight and I know after the fight he was like we're gonna fight again the doctor's like hey yeah yeah yeah because I think he was someone sent me something where he was supposed to fight again and then I'm not sure what happened there

but yeah he didn't it's crazy how could you fight again after that what made it I felt very bad obviously at the time as well but then I didn't see him for another two years. Boom. That was just.

And the sound, the sound that was, it's only when I watched it back. Give me the sound, Jamie. It's hard to breed. So just about everything you need in a fight, you lose off the liver shot. It can't come.

Oh. Runs into a jumping and it's over. It sounds like a baseball bat on a pumpkin. You know what I mean? Just what? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was different.

The thing is, I didn't know, I keep telling everybody. I didn't know what happened because obviously they're like, you celebrated like throw him a poker ball at him afterwards. I did not know. You thought it was just a knockout. Yeah, this was a knockout. And obviously, cost from kicking, like, I'm assuming maybe I broke his nose or because I can see he's not out, but he's in pain.

It must be something like that. It's only the next day that I found out. But yeah, it was a bad one. That was a bad one. Yeah, it was a very bad one. And the thing is, like I said, I met him, I want to say like two, two and a half years later down the line obviously this clip's just being going crazy online and so on and so and i just i felt awkward i didn't want to but also he had come over for another mhm a show but with

one of his students but one of his students was fighting one of my teammates and at the beginning my coaches were like oh do you want to you know go on at some point go and see him and say hello i was like yeah please like i'd love to because that's the last time i saw him the fight happens and my teammate is known for his leg locks and breaks his his students leg so I'm like for fuck sake oh god so now I was like do you want to go and see him I was like yeah yeah I'll try I just I just felt like I needed to sure I kind of walk into the room his guy's obviously upset for losing he's like getting sorted out by the medics and he's sitting there just looks at me and I'm like hey

what do you say I'm lucky I was just like he's like shook my hand like I could just feel the energy wasn't right it just wasn't the right time but I didn't know when I'd get to see him again and I haven't again since

so yeah I just felt it's just one of those things I just felt bad but what do you do? There's nothing yeah yeah what do you do you got a broken leg you broke his head It's just to stay the fuck away from you and you're true. I mean, at least you're nice about it and friendly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's such interesting because you've trained with Marius, my coaches. One of my coaches, Marius. And obviously, he says to say hello. Tell me, I said, I love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He said he's training with you guys. I think you guys trained for about four years with Eddie Bravo as well. Yeah, I've known him for 20 years. Yeah. Crazy, crazy, crazy. Crazy. And that's obviously, that's a big part of my, my history now with them, them two, the brothers, Alexis and Marius. Were you at the gym when Lee?

When Lee Murray was, no, no, no, I was just after. Yeah, yeah. Luckily. But interestingly, though, when I was in, at the time that I, he was around, I was still very, like, heavily focused on the points fighting, kickboxing. So, but a friend of mine was training at shoot. and he was like you need to come and train with these guys like these guys are serious and but for me mma was just never going to be a thing that i'd ever see myself in really i've always seen it as i guess like your average fan back in the day and some fans now of like ars

brutal man like i right and again i'm a points fighter like i don't see myself being good enough to or tough enough to fight these guys like what changed obviously mark had a successful career in the kit boxing but it didn't really go anywhere it's like you're fighting the same people over like the amount of times me and raymond have fought and we were like some of the top two guys like we're both in the competition like we both walk in the room everyone was like oh my god these guys gonna fight like we were the guys but I'm fighting the same people and it's just like everything everyone hoping that you're going to lose or your fans are kind of like supporting you and then I come back to reality, come off a plane, I've traveled, I've fought all

the, you know, the whole week or whatever, won a world title and I've come back home and nothing. Like, I come back home to just me being myself, just me being me, which I'm okay with, but there's no recognition, there was no sponsorship. I paid to do everything and I loved it. And if I could choose the route again, I'd still do it because I absolutely loved it. But there comes up, I'm getting older and it comes to a point where I have to, and I'm now starting to, at the time I'm a kid, but now it's getting to the point where I have to work and so now it's like, I can't do this forever, but at the same time, I know I want to compete for a living. I just didn't know what, in what. So then I said to myself,

okay, cool, let me, I need to take a step away from this. I know while I'm in this, this will be a distraction. I'm not going to be able to focus on the thing because another competition that I'm going to want to win is going to come up and it's going to turn my attention. So I said, look, I'm going to, I said to everyone I'm retired. I thought, let me say it to as many people as possible. So then it's hard for me to turn back on it.

So I'm just like, yeah, I'm okay, yeah, I'm retiring there, not fine again, yeah, this my last fight. And I said, cool. Started to go around looking at boxing gyms, looking at full contact kit boxing, looking at MMA gyms. And The first gym actually went to was in Miami, Coconut Creek American Top Team.

Ah. Yeah. Because my sister used to live in that area because I got siblings over in America as well. So came out there. And in my head at the time, there's only few people from the UK that was doing anything in MMA. So when I was like, maybe I'm going to try MMA, I was like, obviously I have to go to America. And I'm lucky enough to have siblings that live over there. So I'm good.

So get to America, get to American top team. I go in there. I'm like, this is where I'm going to start. Like I've met a couple of the coaches and just kind of just like general chitcher. I didn't tell them who I was or anything. Just kind of saw the vibe. The facilities are amazing. I was like, yeah, this is going to be my new life.

And then I get back to England and a good friend of mine, Marvin Francis, was like, just in case, just have a look at some gyms over here. You don't know. because obviously I got things to sort out before I can just make the full move so while you're doing that let's have a look at a couple of gyms and we did some research

we went to a couple of the Gracie gyms went to a few other gyms that I was around then I found London Shoot Fighters I hadn't done any research and at this time I personally wasn't watching MMA at all the only person I knew What year is this?

So I'd have been I'd have been what 24 so what's that about it's over 12 13 years back and i was trying to say that the only guys in the uk would have been brad pickett was fighting solid fighter michael bispin was fighting but and nobody had like achieved anything of big quality from there everything everything Everything was in America. Was Bisping still living in England or had he moved to America? I think he was still in England.

Yeah, yeah. But again, I was only learning it as I got more into it. But initially I just thought, I made the decision without actually researching anything, which is very much like me. I'll just jump in headfirst. Figure it out afterwards. So I literally, I said to myself, okay, cool. I've got to

London shoot fighters and the only person I knew was Chuck Liddell that's what I've actually seen and I just was like this guy was just knocking people out I was like I could relate to that I was like he's a striker everything else I didn't really care for I was a typical fan

like when they got on the floor I was like oh I was fucking fuck sake stand up stand them up so and never been to a show anything

but these are he's a guy that I like watching and I made a decision that I want to do it, cool. Started in London shoot fighters and for some reason the guys there,

I don't know what, because I've had good coaching so in my upbringing so I feel like I can hear sense when I've gone to a place I'm hearing how they're coaching and what they're saying and I'm like it just makes sense to me

I was like cool, I'm going to start here I still want to go to America but I'll start here for now and then just see where it goes and I just fell in love with the place. Was that the first time you did any grappling at all? Any grappling at all. Wow.

Didn't do. All I was doing every day was applauding people because I was tapping every two seconds. Every two seconds. It's frustrating, right? But I loved it, though. Oh. Well, you have a good mindset.

Yeah, it was weird. Like, I kind of enjoyed the fact that, like, I'm looking at this guy, like, if I saw you on the street, in my head, right. I'm destroying you. yeah but this guy just twisted me up into a pretzel it's a humiliating feeling oh so humiliating but i again i crave if i go back to the point side from about like you you met my brother

outside uh him he's my he's the oldest uh of my siblings uh sorry of my boys uh my sister's the audience, then it's my brother, I've got two other brothers than me. And at the time, we were fighting around, but they were winning everything. I used to get my ass kicked everywhere we went. And this is every single weekend. That's crazy. When something truly works for you, you want people to know about it. AG1 next gen is your daily healthy drink. Just one scoop combines your multivitamin, pre- and probiotics, superfoods, and antioxidants into one truly. simple delicious habit. I partnered with AG1 for so long because

they're committed to constantly improving. And their latest clinically studied formula features more vitamins and minerals for more comprehensive support while still maximizing absorption in the body. And I know I've talked about AG1 for a long time, but if you haven't checked it out

in a while, now's the time. Ag1 has a lot going on including new flavors, berry, citrus, and tropical. That'll make showing up for your health even better. You can be in athlete, you could be a gym rat, you'd just be a normal person, and AG1 is going to help you feel your best. When you subscribe today, you'll get a free bottle of AGD3K2 and 5 AG1 travel packs with your first subscription order. Just head to drinkag1.com slash Joe Rogan or click the link in the

description. That's drinkag1.com slash Joe Rogan. Like he was, for me, he was a more talented one. But I mean, like, Every single weekend we're driving to Birmingham, to Manchester, to Scotland. We did trips everywhere. Like, my dad started a gym and he was going around everywhere. And every weekend, it's like three hours that way, four hours this way. They're coming back and I'm just got a boss lip with the eyes. And they're just, the medals are just like, bling, cling, cling, cling.

Like they got all the medals and they're talking about how they spin kick some guy and they did this. And I'm just like, yeah, yeah, cool. Cool story. and I got destroyed for four or five years and when I got to a qualifiers is in Birmingham it was an Ayasca qualifiers and I managed to win that which that in itself was success for me

like I'm like oh man I qualified to go to the world championships I've already done well everyone else was they were supposed to do it they're good enough to have the expectation of themselves so then I get to the world championships and the way they seed fighters in the US was very different to the UK at the time so I had one fight another fight

another fight and I'm winning and I'm like happy and I must be in like the finals already and then they're like okay bring the seeders fighters in and then there's like a shitload of fighters join your mat and I'm like oh my dad would tell me he's like yeah i think you're in a in the semis i think you're in the quarters and then he's like bro just keep fighting he said he couldn't work out i don't know seriously i i genuinely

don't remember i just remember just feeling tired and i didn't understand why this was still going on because in the competitions three four fights you're in a final right and i was at least 10 fights deep and still felt like i was fighting all in a day in a day wow so there's a again the I ask a world champion is in Orlando, Florida. And it's a, it was the big, at the time, the biggest points kickboxing competition. So there's thousands and thousands of competitors, kids, adults, doing forms, doing, you know, catters and all this stuff. And then you had the points fighting, the light contact fighting, and that was it. And yeah, it just all day.

And then it literally got to this like, okay, I won a fight and the guy was like, okay, you're in the final next. the referee said that to me and I was like oh like I can't believe I'm in the final and this guy was very good I can't remember his name who was young I was the thing is like 12 or 11 at the time and I won the fight just claps to my like my back I was just like oh my god everyone ran in there because again nobody expected that of me and I remember going in there the trophy itself was six foot tall and in my head I was like I just want one in my house and I managed to to win that But something that competition clicked. So all the times I was getting beaten up,

all the competitions I was getting destroyed at. And it wasn't even like close. I was getting destroyed. I won this competition. And I went back home. And every person I used to get destroyed by, I was smoking them. Like something was different.

Instantaneously. There was a weird shift that just went click. Wow. And all the kicks that would, I'd walk into face first. So I was like, oh, actually, I can do this. I was like, wow, you entered into the Matrix. I literally, I just, I, to the point, to the point where so when I went back home, it's like 12,

and for the year of that circuit, I, I didn't lose a fight. And this is from, this is from getting worked. That's crazy. And this is what I'm fighting all the same guys that I grew up. And they must be like, what the hell is going on here? Then the, when I was 13, I asked my dad, I was like, can I please fight in the seniors? and the seniors are 18 plus and he was like

and he said it to me he said it to me later on he was like as a coach I knew you could as your dad I was like hell no and I begged him like every competition

he goes like please can I find the seniors please and there was a big British championship competition and I begged I was like please he was like you can do this one

and again I don't think he remember these guys are 18 plus but all different sizes as well. I don't think he knew I'd do well but not as well as I did. So I won my senior division for my weight.

And like I said, these are big men. But the problem is whoever, when you win, in this competition specifically, when you win your section, you go into the grand championships. And I'm like that. You got to let me go. He's like, no, this is different now because they're the

winners of their division. This is, that was your weight division now these guys are the winners of their own weight you can't do this i begged him and i beat everybody and got to the final and the final was really really close and i felt like i got robbed and even my dad was like he could never tell me no after that because i destroyed some of the best fighters on the in that in the uk at the time do you think it was a confidence thing of having gone through that grueling tournament and proven that you could do it and now you didn't have doubts in your mind anymore or was it you had just seen so many different high levels of competition that like maybe your own expectations had risen like what what was it that

made that instantaneous shift because it's one thing to go and compete and do really well all of a sudden and like now I'm competing but then you went and you were doing against people that were normally beating you yeah and you're fucking them up that's that's like a 50% shift that's a giant shift I would say one thing obviously I hated losing as anybody would especially as a kid um and we also and I think as for all of us we wasn't allowed so a lot of the kids would fight first and then the seniors would fight and but because we all traveled down together we stayed the whole competition until the seniors were finished so we can drive back a lot of the other kids were messing around when obviously we like this guys that I've spent I've known since I was eight years

old that I'm still good friends with now because we were the kids like playing with each other after was like just being cool but my dad was like no no no you represent me you sit down and watch so as much as we could play a little bit like when he wasn't looking but we have to try and get back to the mat to make sure we were watching people and I feel like I'm a visual learner and I feel like that helped me become that visual learner as much as I was getting my ass kicked I was also spending time watching amazing athletes yeah I think it's an important thing to mention that at that time, there wasn't video readily available like there is there.

Exactly. Like, I remember the first time I went to the Taekwondo World Cup, it was in Colorado Springs in 2000, I mean, not 2000, 1980, I think it was 86. And the first time I went, I immediately got better. Just by seeing them. Just by seeing everybody. I just went as a spectator.

I hadn't beaten anybody to qualify for the nationals. So when I went there, the whole experience was just absorption. And I came back and I was much better, much better. I'd never seen those guys live. But my expectations for competition, my expectations for movement and speed, everything had risen. And at the time, I was 18. So it was just, when you're 18, your brain just, you just absorb.

And I think even more so when you're younger. Yes. Oh, yeah, when you're a little kid, yeah. And my first competition, I was five years old. so that is just many years again being up but that's incredible though because your body develops with that i started a little late i started karate when i was 14 and then wrestling and taiguan though when i was 15 but i wished i started earlier yeah because i was with these guys that were younger and their little bodies had like grown stretching and they'd grown punching and kicking

like you develop into that yeah well funny you say that i that's where my name came from so venom came from when I was nine and the only kids that was in my dad's class at the time mainly of far a few others because at the time we did it was basically one class he didn't really separate the kids and adults it's just one class so you're I'm trying my best throwing everything in to hit adults yeah they're not moving but I'm trying in my best to just get some kind of reaction and then when I started hitting people my own size even though I was losing because they were just obviously i was tall for my age as well so i was fighting kids slightly more naturally developed than me but i had a had a whack on me that's a great way to put you know what

mean like even though i i you know i wasn't beating these guys these guys were just way too fast for me but when i hit them they felt it and it was one of my again Marvin was literally just like you got some venom in you man yeah yeah yeah and we was very into like kung fu movies back in the and I was very creative mind like I love just just even with my martial arts I learn a jab like this and now I have to add something I can't do things conventional I've never never liked to do it if there everyone's walking that way like I want to see what's over there like I don't know what it's wrong I don't know what's wrong with me but what's right with you or what's right with me but I just got that like I was curious and creative and so there's a film called the Five Deadly Venoms

like old school old school kung fu classic and he would be like yeah five deady vellums let's make a move for each like uh thing because he'd be like scorpion or was told and I would make up weird moves and try to add it into and that was always my thing I'd see something in the movies and I'm like I'm gonna try it in there

in there this is all while I'm still getting beating up by the way as well but that never left me so even when I started beating all these people now I'm doing it with the style and flair of like what more can I do yeah you know what I mean yeah so yeah Yeah, yeah. Well, it's, it's so perfect for martial arts for you, for MMA, because a lot of MMA is pattern recognition.

You get accustomed to certain types of movements. I know this guy's going to do this. The calf kick's going to be available. I'm going to faint with this and I'm going to throw that. I'm going to shoot that double here because I know he's going to come with the overhammer, right? All these patterns, you don't have normal patterns. So you're moving around, your hands are down, you're sideways. And they have to make up new patterns as they go along, so they have to think.

They have to react. It's such an advantage. Yeah. And I always tell people that, like, the first time they're actually really going to experience this style is on the night. Yeah. And you have to figure it out on the night. Because there's not enough guys that have what you can do that also compete in M&A. Yeah, yeah.

This might be five or six in the whole world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is nuts. Yeah. It's kind of nuts, man. It's really the – I had been saying this for decades. I'm like, this is the one thing that's missing. Yeah, yeah.

And then when you came over, I was like, Steve, this is what I'm saying. This is crazy. You can't even hit them. It's weird, though. It's a blessing and a curse. Blessing, obviously, having the advantages of a fight. But sparring, headache. Earlier, a lot of people wanted to kind of like, let me see what this is about.

Then word spreads quite quickly. And I struggle with sparring. I think starting to come back now, people don't. a bit more willing, but I struggled with sparring. You just couldn't get sparring. Couldn't get sparring. Because also, and I kind of see it from other people's point of view. It's like, well, why, I'm not going to fight anybody like that.

So why, why am I coming over? Yeah, but if you saw that, if you, with your mindset, you would be like, I got to figure out what the fuck he's doing. 100%. And my teammates, they're forced to. Right. And a lot of them, they even say, like, I'd spar you and then I'd go spar someone else. And they feel so slow because when I'm with you, my eyes are like this.

like I'm forced to be like ultra alert and then I go on somewhere's front of punch with us that's the thing too it's exhausting yeah it's exhausting your style's exhausting because you always have to be at high alert there's no moment because there's so many times where you've done like like a shift in rhythm and it looks like you're slowing down and then you explode and crack people and you've done that so successfully so many times that if they've watched any tape there's they know there's no there's no moments where you could catch your breath there's no moments

and you're always putting pressure on people you're always fainting in the faints alone see people don't even know when you're just standing there it looks like you're just standing there but you're standing there and a guy's fainting

and you never know when he's going to actually launch and you yeah yeah yeah he's constantly tense you can't breathe and that's just their energy bar just doing this

without anything without anything without any kicks landing no punch which is actually why I'm actually a big fan of like Tom Aspenor as well Oh, yeah.

You don't really see that anywhere full stop, but definitely not in a heavyweight division. No heavyweight moves like him. No one moves out of him. He moves like a 185. It's crazy. But that kind of explosive and that power, it's crazy. Crazy speed for a heavyweight. Crazy speed.

And that's why the John Jones thing was being, you know, John is one of the, if not the greatest fighter of all time. But it's not the fastest guy in the world. Yeah. He hasn't. He's just so complete and his fight IQ is off the charts. Of the charts. Very well-rounded.

Very. Very well-rounding. And wild. You know, opens up his world title fight with Shogun with a flying knee. Yeah, crazy. Wild. You know, just believes in himself. Goes for it. Belief, confidence.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Goes for it. I thought that was a complicated matchup for him. It is, it is. Because that guy's not easy to get to the ground and Aspinall, and he's fast as fuck. And he's big. Yeah. He's a legit 250 pounds, natural, not, you know, no, he doesn't need anything.

It's no. way he can make 205 ever he's fucking big yeah I got to train with him and I went down there and I was like this guy he's a he's a tank it's a tank so that's a problem yeah that's a problem when you're not really a heavyweight as great as John is

and I think John beats most heavy weights of ever existing I that's a big that guy's a Francis is another problem that's another problem because you're dealing with the power factor real 265 pounds solid natural grew up

in the sand mines. Literally. His story is crazy. Crazy. His story is something else. He told it on the podcast. He told the whole story of him going to Morocco and getting to Europe. That's a movie, man. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy movie. I'm surprised nobody has jumped on that. I'm surprised too. Someone needs to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll do it. We'll do it. We'll do it. But when he was a child working digging sand in Cameroon. It's crazy. You know? Incredible. And then you have incredible genetics. Yeah. And then you have just this fierce mindset from all the shit that guy's been through.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was another one. So there was two fights that I was really interested in with John at every weight. Once he won the title, was like, God, bring back Francis. Please, I just don't see that happening. Sort out your difference. I wish I was running shit. I feel like I'm going to, me and him get along great.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just feel like, I don't know. I think sometimes it's the executives and the fighters. Dana generally gets along with people You know like most fighters he gets along with But him and Francis It didn't work I love the guy

I've never I've never got I had the privilege of meeting him But he just seems very sweet Like a big friendly giant outside of the cage Yeah exactly Big friendly giant This episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog We all know ultra-processed food

Isn't good for us as humans Why would it be any different for our dogs The farmer's dog is real fresh food for dogs for dogs. And their recipe goes beyond just using good ingredients. It's all about how they use them. Unlike most pet food, they always use real meat and vegetables and gently cook them to retain vital nutrients without any of the bad stuff that comes from ultra processing. Their food is developed by a team of on-staff, board-certified vet nutritionists who make sure it's all complete and balanced, and it's backed by research and made to human-grade safety standards. It's portioned for

your dog making it easy to manage their weight. And they label each pack with your dog's name that lets you know that this food is truly packed for them. Plus, they have 24-7 customer support so you can chat with real dog people who care about your dog anytime. The farmer's dog says good ingredients matter, but the best recipes call for so much more. Head to thefarmer's dog.com slash Rogan to get 50% off your first box plus free shipping this offer is for new customers only it's a fucking great guy yeah yeah for one my i'm always saying yeah yeah yeah yeah but as a fighter yeah make it happen keep them around you got a that's more important it's extraordinary gem yeah and you want to talk about sellability you want to talk about marketability what's more

marketable than a giant man who destroys everyone yeah yeah he's the guy Yeah, yeah, yeah, so true. Drove me nuts. I know. I think everybody. And I think that's added to people's frustrations with the Tom Aspinall fight not happening then after as well. Well, that was not on the UFC's side or on Tom's side.

That was all John. Look, John's a wizard. He knows how to play all games. And one of the games he plays, I'm retired. No, I'm back. Oh, now I'm hunting after you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't matter for him.

He's going to get the same amount of money. He's still John Jones. Like, it's all mind. It's all mind-fuckering. Like, keep you guessing. And meanwhile, John's deadlifting every day. You know what I mean? And partying.

He's just so wild. But it's like that fight would have been amazing to see. But to me, the real... So that means it probably can still happen, though? I hope so. I genuinely hope so. You know, they were talking about doing it at the White House. Yeah, yeah.

And Dana's like, I can't trust John to show up and be fine. Which is fair. Which is fair. You gotta say, there's been a few times that things went awry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But... However, it would be great. Do it on a card where you have 12 other fights.

That's what I say. Who gives a fuck? Let's see if it happens. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. That's true. That's true. I would be, let's go crazy. Let's fucking go all in.

I guess what would happen is that fight overshadows many fights. So if it doesn't happen, even though the fights are amazing still, people are like. It does, but so what? Yeah. I mean, you know, you get, I don't know who you would do, Ilya versus Justin Gaichie or something like. That's something crazy like that. You'd have a few other fights. It depends on what happens this weekend with Pereira and O'Clyev.

It depends on what happens with Maraub and Corey Sanhagan. Those are two very complicated fights. Beast. Yeah, very good fights. Morab is a beast, man. Bees such a beast. Dude, he was talking to, I forget he was talking to. He did an interview.

Oh, he was on Mighty Mouse's podcast. No sauna, no cold plunge, no stretching. Doesn't do any of that. Doesn't do any of that. Just no warm up. shows up I just show up start to train

just shows up and fucking hits the gas he stays up to one two o'clock in the morning just like his whole routine is totally contrary to everything that you've heard before

and this is how he weight cuts I stop eating he just stops eating he stops eating on Tuesday he just stops eating stops drinking water keeps working out The man's mind

is a giant factor that I think a lot of people are looking at his cardio which is a insane weapon But the man's mind The toughness The mental tough That is Fort Knox You ain't getting in there

You ain't getting in there Remember that time Who was it? He was mounted I forget who got him But he got him in a mounted guillotine And he didn't I think it might have been Ricky Simone And he or was

Somebody else had him And he got out And then he won the fight But he was He was being choked unconscious for like two minutes. And he's like, yeah. And he's like kicking his legs

and moving around. He's like, there's no quitting that guy. Fucking zero quit. You have to put him out. Zero quit. And the Marlon Mariah's fight, he was basically out on his feet the first round.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he just came back and stopped him. He's a monster. He's a beast. He's a beast. And he keeps getting better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, you feel like,

oh, a guy like that is so good. Look how good he is. He's better than everybody. No, no, no, no, no. He's still getting better. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, he's not done. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's a project. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, what can the human mind force the human body to do? And how young is he now? He's like 34, I believe. So which is in that light weight class, it's a little bit more of a problem in the heavier weight classes. But I don't see any slow. Like he said, his mind is.

His mind is a fucking steel trap. But it's funny you say that because I don't really have structure either. So like I said, the weight cut I do. But that's because I came in with no understanding of weight cut in London. shoot was like you do this you look so big for one so how the fuck did you do that how much are you cutting when you went to 170 so even like now I'm massive now yeah you look like let me guess 220 what do you wait right but yeah it's about two yeah about two yeah yeah because I was gonna do it in KG so yeah right okay but yeah yeah yeah yeah we never adopted so stupid it's a way

better system but yeah it's but I've never struggled to get down though because again I was just told I guess it's ignorance as well but I was just told to do these things and it's like okay you do it like when you start like say you get a call from the UFC six to eight weeks out okay

well you're not going to accept any two week fights no you know well it depends on a fight and it depends right I'm always training but middleweight maybe you would middle way yeah middleweight yeah you have taken some short notes yeah for middleweight which was the first one I was the first one or the second one I did um the last fight

uh maybe but i i would take short notice fight depending on where i am in training in training but even i just like to have a rough idea right even right now it's like trying to get and i'm like i'm bugging people because i'm i've come from a circuit where we fight weekends right every weekend where somewhere it keeps you sharp yeah and then this that's this is probably the most frustrating thing for me obviously started in the better tool and you're training all the time and then you have a fight and then you're training and a lot of my fights I don't get take too much damage so I'm like

I'm ready now like give me a week off and I can come back and then it's months and months I'm like who am I fighting do this and the problem is you're a hard sell yeah you know when they when people get a call yeah

so I'm here you're like shit I'm going to have to learn how to dance in six weeks fuck and that's the thing so I'm hearing and I assumed wrongly that when I get to the UFC that is going to disperse everyone's going to be gunning for me

like yeah I'm going to show everybody that this guy is is a can like he only fought people that weren't his level and it's still the same I think and obviously the more I fight the less people are putting their hands up I think even Whitaker said which I respect to be fair he came out of any way

somebody sent me something but he had said like yeah I wouldn't be interesting making that fight yeah at this point in his career that's just a Set back waiting to happen. Yeah, it's not. And his style is very similar. Exactly, yeah. I'm a massive fan of his as well.

Like, I love his. Obviously, he can tie in the wrestling way better and just, yeah, I love his style. I do too. And you've got to realize, like, that guy, he's been in it for a long time. He had two fucking wars with Yoel Romero. When Yo-O-O-Rerrero was made out of metal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that guy's, he's still fighting. Still?

He's 48 years old fucking people up Looking like he's 30 I'd swap buddies in a second He wouldn't Bro, when he was in here He came in the studio It was the most amazing thing Because Joey Diaz translated for him

So it was him and Joey Diaz Going back and forth And you know Joey's Cuban as well of course And so when he was here He had to be 230 pounds His neck starts at the top of his ears And one of the things that he said

Man he was talking about the Cuban system He goes You have to be a man jean because he was talking about the system of like you get more food if you're at a higher caliber of athlete so the just to get more food he's like athletes yeah man the athletes that are the lower caliber they twice a day yeah in his caliber he's eating three times a day he's like so every day every day they're coming for you you have to be on my jean and i was like oh my god And he used to look in his eyes, man.

Bro, we are soft in the west, bro. Oh, we're so soft in the West. We're so soft in the West. What the hell is this? I'm not a fan of communism. I don't believe in it. But damn, it creates a fucking beast. Alexander Corellan.

I mean, I don't know if you get... There's two things that you don't get that with. There's, like, substances. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With, for sure taking place. And then there's also, there's a regiment that they have, both the Cuban system and the Russian system where they had figured out the balance.

between unbelievable hard work, but technical ability and recovery. They didn't go meathead style. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In America, we went meathead style and we burnt a lot of dudes out, but the dudes who survived were just the killers of the killers.

But they probably could have made more killers like the Russians did if they did it more technically. It's the same. So, again, shoots, they've been, again, they were the first MMA gym in the UK. I think it's like 95, 97, 95. Yeah, I got a T. I got a London Shoe Fighters t-shirt from 2003.

Yeah, crazy. I couldn't find it. I was going to look for it today. Crazy. So like I said, they've been around. Yeah, I'm going to tell him. I'm going to tell him. They've been around a long time.

And obviously, they've fought with every, I think they thought of every major competition that's ever been out. They've done boxing with the likes of like David Hay, Derek Trit Zora now. Even Dylan White did a kickboxing fight with them. You know, myself, Lee Murray, John Hathaway. Even like Carlos Vermonle was the first Czech guy before Yuri to be in the UFC. That was them guys.

They'd done a lot. But they're the meathead style. Yeah. They are like, yeah, everybody will learn. Anything that produced Lee Murray. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you got that guy in your gym. It's a problem.

Just the echoes of that guy's style will permeate through that gym for decades. That guy is just an angry man. He was an angry man. But at the same time, you needed some. somebody like because my coaches are beast like you needed that kind of militant force to be able to manage that and cope with that and that's what my coaches they are they like yeah they people used to come to a gym and we're just like yeah who's ready and if you don't do I'll do it myself that's one thing I always respected about them even with the machines that the fitness machines

that we had to do the scores are crazy like I'll see people in other gyms posting their scores I'm like, is that it? And they're celebrating it. And I'm like, we're forced to do this. The hell is that? But he'd push you, but he'd also do it himself. Like he'd jump in a machine, like, versus a clamour.

Yeah. Smoke it. Like five-fives back to back. And then running and this and that, like, and we're doing, we have to do all of it because he's doing it. And he's not doing it. He hasn't got a fight. That's the way you lead.

Yeah. And he led that way. Especially with killers. Exactly. Yeah, that's the problem. They demand respect. Right. And they have to know that you're real.

Exactly. Yeah. Otherwise, you're just some pontificator on the sidelines with a fucking clipboard. Fuck off, bitch. Which is more nowadays. Like, I'm seeing a lot of, like, and to be fair, I'm a fan of a lot of these guys, like the fighting nerds. And again, I'm hearing that they had, I forget, like, a data analyst or something that's in. And he does, like, this, you know, he studies this.

And I think that's cool. Like, I feel like we should have, like, add elements of these things as well. But obviously, I've just grown up by just iron, sharp's iron. it does it's undeniable iron sharpens iron you know there's outliers there's a guy who will come out of a gym with nobody and he's a monster

there's just a few of those guys that exist in the world but for the most part like if you look at a gym like American Top Team for example look at how many animals have come out of that gym so many Pantosia who I think does not get the credit he deserves I think Pantosia is one of the greatest ever

fucking guy's a monster when that Japanese cat came over from Risen and he just like like ragdolled him like you had no business and then the the the cai caro france rematch like you see the difference between when they first fought and now the difference between like a dominant all-time world champion yeah yeah yeah people like when he's on a card like people don't freak out i'm like god damn it just because he's 125 pounds get that shit out of your head you're watching one of the greatest ever but that's the thing that's it's the marketability of people

this is what I knew I had to get right as well. Yes. And I say that to my teammates as well. I'm like, do you know how you're going to market yourself? And I know, if I beat people up. It's like it doesn't always just, unfortunately, it should, but it doesn't, that's not what's going to get you. If I have to, as a promotion owner and the person managing everything,

I'm either going to pick you that's beating everybody but nobody cares about or this guy that's, you know, it's pretty decent, but everyone's making noise about going to pick. that guy so you need to be able to market yourself and i i knew that from the jump and this is before really social media was massive massive is a thing but i said to myself okay i need to look in how am i going to market myself because we don't have that much time like on the mic uh the interviews at the time i don't feel like people got the recognition people just cared about the fight they just want to watch a fight i didn't care what you said beforehand unless you're arguing or shouting in you know there's

there's beef unless you grab that mic and go crazy yeah yeah you gotta go crazy chale son was the first oh he's the best yeah he was he figured it out before he's the best yeah he's the best you absolutely suck he's the best fighter but he's still good this is why he's on the mic now yes but it was perfect yeah yeah yeah yeah it was perfect but there was balance with that there's for me there's perfect balance like it it wasn't too far it was it was exactly what you wanted exactly what you need to to market a fight and to to promote himself yes yes I agree with you but well again it's weird though because I think authenticity is important when you do that as well though and Connor

McGregor kind of is the next person for me that's kind of delivered that oh 100 percent he took it to a whole other level a whole other level every time this guy's on the mic he'll say one line and I'm like t-shirts easy how about what Jeremy Stevens is yelling at him and he goes who the fuck is that guy you can't beat this guy. He's so funny. Why did you even open your mouth, bro? So funny, man.

It's so funny. And you need to be able to do that. Like, I, before I even had my first fight, I would, I spent hours. I was a big WWE fan. And I felt like the rock, you know, Dwayne Johnson, for, out of all of them, was the best at marketing himself. He had the crowd in the palm of his hands, every word that he said. And it was simple sayings.

And I was like, yeah, I studied this, studied this. Like, okay. Okay, what could, and even like his stances, he'd come up, like, jump on the ropes and put his hand up and just stand there. Look around. You know what I mean? Like, he just, he just demanded eyes. So, again, I just came to, okay, what could I do? What could I?

So I was like, you know, venom, you know, snake. I'd relate to a snake. Okay, I was like, okay, yeah, let me, let me do this. Okay, okay, okay, that's check. I've got a stance that I can do. Okay, I need a saying. okay like what can I say because again I used to listen to people on after fights and I didn't hear anything they said they're like yeah I'm because yeah beat that guy

and I'm like here thank you for my sponsors like who were your sponsors didn't hear anything so I'm like it has to be like concise I have to say specific words and just I write this stuff down but again I speak to my team as like bro what are you guys doing you need to do this kind of stuff and understand that this is a part of your game you've got five seconds after the fight on the mic if that what are you going to say what message is going to land

what is going to make you memorable and I do things on my walkings as well I need people to remember they're watching 16 fights on the night why do they remember me yes my style is exciting that's cool there's this weird guy

he does some weird stuff with his arms and that he's quite cool but they're not going to remember my name but I need other things to keep them coming back oh there's this guy in the way and he stood above this guy put the snake hand up and then oh that's the same guy that did the dance because now you're getting it from different places that's the guy that threw the poker ball oh what's his name what's his

name not the more times you keep hitting them with different things the more times they're more likely kind of really buy into you I think this is why I was able to create a big enough brand before even touching the UFC just because I paid attention to that you were the one of the first guys to make a name for yourself in beltor because beltor it was hard to break out. There were some wild fights in Bellator that never got recognized. At all, yeah, yeah. How about the Eddie Alvarez, Michael Chandler fights?

Fucking crazy fights. And I feel like those guys left a lot of who they are there. Yeah, unfortunately, yeah, yeah, yeah. We got them kind of after them. And Chandler's still remarkably durable, but that's just a discipline thing and a hard work thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think he's just accustomed to, like he said, he's been, he's trained a certain way his whole life. He's always going to have that kind of athleticism.

But he's, you know, 38 now. I mean, it's like you can only, I wish he had not been in Bellator. Look, I'm all for competition. I think competition's important. I don't think there should be a monopoly in the MMA business. I think it's bad for the athletes. Yeah, definitely. I love the fact that the PFL overpays people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Give them a million dollars, everybody. Get a million dollars. Everybody gets a car. You get a car. I wish there was more organizations. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hope one FC succeeds, you know.

It does help. That helped me as well, even in my negotiation. Fucking everything. However, there's a caliber of athlete that I feel like should only be in the UFC. Yeah, yeah. And you're one of those guys. Thank you. I appreciate that.

There's a caliber of athlete where like, I want to see how good they really are. You know, like some got like Patchy Mitch. Patchy Mix is a beast. He's a bad motherfucker. But so is Mario Batista. Mario Batista had the perfect game plan to fuck up his party. But that dude when he was in Bellator was of that caliber. I was like, I want to see him over here, man.

I personally, and obviously because I've experienced it, for me, the first time I got nervous in an MMA fight was my first fight. In the UFC? No, my first fight ever. And then after that, I was like, oh, yeah, this is the same as when I was fighting the kickboxing. I'm cool. I didn't have any, I didn't get them nerves again. The first time again since then was the first time. First, no, sorry, weird enough, the second fight in the UFC against Ian Gary.

Now, the first fight, I don't know why, I just, I don't know what it was, but I was quite relaxed. And then the second fight, I was like, oh, it's something, a reality hit me of like, oh, you're in the UFC, the people are going to demand a certain thing from you. And you've got a reputation of before, of the knockouts, of the celebrations, of the walkings, of the this, or the that. And then I just let that put a weight on me. Really? Yeah, yeah. That's crazy that it was the second fight. I can't even explain as to why it was the second fight and not the first one.

And then even the third fight, I still had that kind of, oh, man, I'm not performing the way I want. And I felt like I'm eager to impress. And I never felt like in Bellator. But at the UFC, I'm like, I'm trying my best. I literally have to sit. Yeah, it's weird. It's the same thing. It's the same thing.

Cage cameras, people. Same thing. Same thing. But I just, the magnitude of it, I don't know. I'm guessing. It's what we all grew up with. It's what everyone grows up with. It's like, this is where, like I said, there was always question marks around my name.

I was jump, jump knees and this and that. Always question marks around my name still. But then now I'm here. It's like, oh, actually, I can, these guys can respect me now, actually respect me now, because I'm here. Yes. And then I'll just like trying too hard, trying too hard, trying too hard, trying too hard. The last fight was the first time I was like,

you're back. I'm back. And this is why I just keep getting me back in the cage because I swear to you this, I'm back to where I used to be and how I used to fill. It's just an issue of getting guys that are willing to fight you that are of a certain caliber. Exactly, exactly.

Because, you know, obviously right now you're pretty big. So for you to get down to 170 again would be a real problem. Are you committed to 185 or are you open to either one of them? I want 170. I can see a clear pathway, even after my life. last fight I messaged hunter and I literally like look oh let me fight it was Morales yeah and I was like look another undefeated guy perfect fight like he's a beast like I'm I'm ready let me take him then and I said what I could do after that is in like

December I think I said or no March next year I was like yeah give me that for November and like March next year usually come back to the UK let me fight the winner of Leon Edwards and Prattas. I was like, another great fight there. Yeah. And then you've got July card. Obviously, everyone's going to put their hand up to be on that. But I said, if you guys, I want me to be on that, again, I'll fight for whoever you want

in that top range. I don't care who it is. Pick somebody. I'll fight them and then I want a title shot. Or you give me the title there. Like, yeah. But I'm like, I can see a clear path to what I want. And it's just, everything seems slow.

Which I did. I didn't expect coming to the UFC. I think there's just too many athletes. There is a lot. I think they have on contract more than 500. Damn. How many athletes does the UFC have under contract? Throw that into.

But then also they're there, I think, and obviously I'm managed by a paradigm with Audi. And he said he feels like the Paramount deal is they having to integrate that now as well. And I'm like, I didn't think about that. But every time Bellator, because Belator kept getting new partnerships, it did slow things down a little bit. Oh, yeah, that would make sense.

Yeah, that doesn't start until January. But obviously, they're sorting out contracts and things from now. And then they obviously have to try and align the shows. And I'm guessing, obviously, I don't know, but I'm just saying it just feels even slower than before. And I'm like, that sucks. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, I just want to be back out there. I don't care.

And this is why I'm happy to take... 674. Wow. 674 fighters under contract. And they don't have fights every week. They have fights almost every week, but not every week. That, I mean, just think about that. So you have 52 weeks.

You have all these fighters. Fighters want to fight multiple times in a year. I appreciate that, but I'm MVP, man. Let's go. I am with you. I'm with you. I always say that I wish I was a matchmaker, but I don't. Because it's a hardest job.

Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, well, I just talked to Joe Silva back in the day when he did it. He fucking hated it. Deal with everybody and managers and people flake out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Failed drug tests. Like, God damn it. And these guys, you know, what they're doing right now is very difficult.

Because what Mick Maynard and Sean Shelby are dealing with is the volume is so much greater. Yeah. And there's so many more really good guys. Like in almost every division, like guys are coming in from the contender series. That guy looks like a world championship caliber fighter. Talented. Talents off the charts right now. And it's because they get to watch.

Yeah. You know, these are the kids that are growing up watching Anderson Silva. They're growing up watching John Jones' first fight. They're growing up watching the early Chuck Liddell fights. It's totally different. Yeah, yeah. They, like, when they're play fighting with their friends, they're in stances that look right. You know?

They know what they're doing. And they know the names of every submission and this. It's so true. Their calf kick in each. other in the fucking school yard. It's a totally different world. Very true. And those kids are going to grow up,

and that's going to be integrated to their neuromuscular system. Yep, yep. Yeah, and they're going to learn, there's guys coming along that are like, elite black belt level jujitsu, elite stand-up, elite wrestling, take down defense, cardio off the charts,

and they're 22. And you're like, this is nuts. Now it's just about whether you can compete, whether you can pull it off and keep your head together on fighting days. Yeah, which is, again, I think is something that people don't speak about enough. Listen, it's Aaron Pico is as talented as they come, right?

That dude is a fucking vicious boxer, incredible wrestling, gold chip prospect from the very, but Lorone Murphy is another guy. I was saying before that, this is the guy that's not getting the credit he deserves. Because you got all these loud killers at 145, but you got this one dude that does everything perfect. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and he's beating everybody just. He's beaten everything. Etching away. And he doesn't take damage and he's clever and he's slick. And he does things.

And every technique is perfect. He doesn't, and there's no fat on anything. There's no wild winging punches. Everything's tight. That spinning elbow was a work of art. He just knew. Aaron Pico's a train. He's come bang.

That is a crazy. That was it all there. But that's the difference between someone who can compete at the highest level. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's custom to it. Right. Yeah, yeah. It's the knowing when to hit the,

gas and went not to it. Pico's just all gas, no brakes. Yeah, go ahead. Like you said, it's like similar to Michael Chandler again. Just like in that rage mode all the time. All gas, no breaks. Yeah. You need to take your time.

But that's a wrestler thing, too. They always want to break people. Because in wrestling, you can do that. You can have that mentality where you're constantly eating the gas because you're not going to get knocked out with a flying knee. True. True, true. Changes.

Yeah, because you get that, that's how you compete. You get this mindset of I am going to fucking dominate. I know what I did in training for this. My gas tanks off the train. charts, my aggression's off the charge, I'm a killer, I'm going to dominate, I'm moving forward, I'm moving forward. The problem was with a guy like Lerone is like, you think he's backing up. Bam, he's coming forward. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The timing. It was just like, oh. But Pico even stepped right into the elbow. It was ruthless.

It made it 10 times worse. Bruteless. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's my thing. The car crash effect when you create those collision moments. So for a guy like Lerone, who's not a big. marketing guy not a big like doesn't say wild shit on the microphone just steady professional does his job he needs to do that right he needs like this spectacular thing where all the sudden everybody goes yeah he needs to fight Alexander Volcanowski and that looks like that's what's gonna happen now because of that one performance which is I'm so happy for him me too he's a

cool guy man it's so happy for him but this is why I tell people if he had just a little bit a little bit of show your personality or something let's Give me something else. You have that, though. No, but you know what it is? I always say, like, everyone, like, Demetrius Johnson, for me, is one of the greatest. Of all time. All time.

Of all time. Another underappreciated guy is too small. Yeah. Yeah. But I feel like underappreciated because you can't market him in the exact same way as you'd market like a Connemer or somebody else like that. But he's a gamer. I'm like, shed a light on.

There's a massive. Yeah. massive community of gaming. That industry is billion dollars deep. Market this guy because he goes back home and he's just like... Yeah, he's one of them. He's one of those guys.

So, but again, we didn't see, I don't feel like we saw any of that until afterwards when he was kind of like doing his own thing. Right. He's now obviously doing a lot of these YouTube time. I'm happy, I'm so happy that he's, you know, is getting the recognition.

It was kind of when he went to one that he started doing more of the gaming stuff online. But he had been doing it though. He had been doing it in the UFC as well? Yeah, yeah. But again, it's just more, I guess. They didn't. capitalize yeah that's what i mean i think so certain people you have to like what is your thing

right everybody is just the fighting they have things like things to kind of release what like wind down and you know what i mean yeah find that out he's killing everybody anyway so how else can we market instead of being like ah can't market him the same he doesn't talk he doesn't do say anything there there must be something there there has to be something else there we could look into well it's it's interesting because some guys their personality is no personality like Pereira. Yeah, yeah, yeah. His personality is Stoneface.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just Stoneface, destroyer, death machine. Here he comes. Amazon warrior. Like, literal, actual Amazon warrior. Yeah. Like, not a faker. His fucking family comes from a tribe in Amazon.

But then that's what he markets, though. Yeah. I guess that's what they market it. But he markets that as well. He walks out. That walk out. Oh, yeah. That's true.

Bro, I do it myself. When he's walking out, I'm just waiting for him. I'm like, That's true And that's what I mean though I mean like that's you You're telling your story With just something so simple

That's actually a very good point That I didn't even think of Yeah His walkout His walkout gives you that He's maybe the best in the sport Yeah And that's what I'm trying to say

And that music Yeah And you're just a walk Just this Amazon warrior It's simple Everyone can relate to it Oh yeah It's consistent

So I'm always gonna Oh that's the guy And you see kids in the audience, throw the one, two. Yeah, they do it. Yeah. And like I said, because I'm a big wrestling fan, I see it's those moments that everybody will remember and everybody will do. Right.

Like when Stylebender came into The Undertaker. Oh, beast. But that's what I'm trying to say. It's those kind of things that people just don't. Yeah. And I'm talking the fighters themselves. Obviously, I feel the UFC can do their bit as well. But technically, you're already on the platform that's going to show you to everybody.

So then it's your job to figure it out as well. Another aspect. the game yeah like strength and conditioning like all these different things exactly just think about it you're you're professional figure out how to market yourself yeah you are the product the problem is though it does lead to like cringe moments of some course of course so everybody it's your personality and some guys try it's like yikes shit you're gonna take a risk you're gonna take the risk you know if it goes well it goes well yeah it goes well so like as he said about

Alex pro technically we wouldn't care if he walked out of that and got knocked down we wouldn't give a shit yeah but he's a killer yeah that fight this weekend is very very interesting yeah yeah because so here's the downside to fighting all the time fighting all the time with your style is a very different thing because you take so little damage which is another huge element like i kind of would tell people that if you have a kid and your kid wants to learn martial arts and they want to eventually be an m-ma fighter i would say two things number one wrestling. Take that kid and teach him how to wrestle because if you could just develop, take down defense and an understanding of grappling, at least you have a base from the time you're real

little. That should be your base. Because it's the most important aspect of the fight. If you can't grapple, a guy can take you down and he can hold you down. You can't do shit about it. Number two, learn how to point fight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Learn how to point fight. Because there's a different thing that you guys are doing. People think of Billy Banks is Tybo. You've got to go back and watch. You've got to go back and watch Billy Blanks when he was a fucking karate wizard dude he was a wizard and he was hitting people where you couldn't hit him yeah yeah yeah although the old school guys were all like light on the feet bladed style and they had this leap in ability that if you're used to a guy standing in front of it's a giant problem and you don't have the timing to solve it you could go two three rounds deep before

you start actually landing exactly you can't do anything to them it's a giant problem and i would say you want to be the person giving the other person that problem. Exactly. Then you can learn all the other stuff too. Learn your boxing fundamentals and your tie and knees and elbows. But if they're nowhere near you and you can hit them, you can close that gap quick,

you have a blitz. So I mean understanding that distance control. Yes. And also the faints, the stutter steps. Those things change the game. Yes, there's so much movement in that style of fighting that just gets lost when people are plotting and just teeping each other in the stumbling.

but you're kicking the legs. But it's funny, people always used to go on about me and Wonder Boy Thompson fighting. And I'd always say, like, it won't be as exciting as you think. For us, like me and him, there'll be moments where we're bouncing, faking, and we would laugh at each other

because we saw what would have happened if one of us went, but the crowd's like, the fuck is going to fight. The fuck are you guys doing? Smiling at each other. Like, they don't get their fight that's going on. Right.

In the moment, and I say, it's not as exciting. and two pluses don't always give you that plus. Not always, but you still want to see it. Of course, people always want to just... It's also, like, fighting doesn't have to always be ultimate excitement. You have to, like, that's why I say no stand-ups ever. When a guy takes the guy down, that person on the bottom does not want to be on the bottom.

They want to be up. If they can't get up, tough shit. It's only five rounds. Every fight starts, stands it up, which is a giant, giant advantage for a striker. Because otherwise, they wouldn't have. be able to get themselves up yeah yeah yeah so none of that see it's got it's got to be pure it's got to be real you can't have like ways that a guy won only because the rules set it up for him to get to a better position i agree the only the only thing that i find slightly frustrating

in those in that element is i don't mind the wrestling i think wrestling is a beautiful art and is like you said it one of the most important arts to dictate where you want the fight to go but if you're taking me down, try to kill me. I agree. Try to finish the fight. Don't just take me down and just... I agree. I'll have people like grabbing my legs and looking at the clock.

Here's the thing. If they're not good enough to kill you. Yeah. Right? What if they're good enough to take you down and hold you down? But then they just have to be real defensive afterwards. And they'll throw a little pity pat. I know.

I know. That's the only element that I just... But here's the thing. They're not good enough to do more. Do you know what I'm saying? Like... But you must be, though. Maybe not.

Uh-uh. Maybe not. Maybe only good enough, like you're so good and they're just good enough to hold you down. But if they've reined up and started a range, and then you fucking framed off, you got to half guard, you got back up to your feet,

all of a sudden we're dealing with this shit again. Fuck that. But if you just stay on top and don't take any chances, now you can't do shit. Yeah, I agree. It's boring as fuck. And for me, it's not even a boring element of it.

Like, I still enjoyed that aspect. If I was watching, I only enjoying that aspect, because I know what I'm looking at now. Like, I'm like, oh, he's got, okay, he's got the, he's grabbed his wrist there. Okay, I can see what he's trying to work to. Okay, no, you didn't get it. Okay, I can, I'm still in the fight.

Whereas some people, I guess the people, if you don't get into grappling, you're not going to know what's happening other than they're just lying there. So I get it for them. But for me still, it's just that the aim of this game is for me to beat you. And I mean, like, take, knock you out, put you to sleep. So I'm trying to show you that I am the stronger man as a warrior. And that's not by holding you. Right.

that's not by holding you down holding you down to get you to position to land his elbow and hold you down to get this position to land his part yeah but just to I completely agree however even though I'm a fan of yours

if a wrestler who had that boring style took you down and held you down for three rounds and won a decision I'd be like damn he did it he did it because he can't do it any other way if he can't stand up with you he's going to get fucked up and he can take you down anytime why would he ever let you up

and if losing position is dangerous so if you're very explosive and you're very good at grappling you're very good on the bottom you've gotten submissions off the bottom if a guy rains up and starts throwing shots but he feels like his base is gone and he just wants to clinch and hold on

and maintain position and he maintains position with this kind of shit on top and he's doing this kind of shit just little movements like he's still getting away with that he's still doing that I agree I just because that might be his only right for you but the third

thing is he's not good enough where then you have guys like Khabibh gets you down you're getting fucked up you're getting fucked up constantly everybody loves that everybody loved it he's talking to he's creating a space by still pinning you

he's crushing your legs in between his legs and he's fucking way on on you that I can appreciate all day every day I can too but some guys aren't good enough yeah yeah that's still fighting yeah right they're in there they're not good enough there's guys at a world class level

that are not going to be world champions, but they might be able to beat a guy who could be a world champion if they can do that thing. Yeah, it just... It sucks. I know, I know, it's hard to class you as a world championship fighter then.

Okay, well, let's talk about Hamzot then. Yeah, yeah. Hansa and drink a stuplea is a perfect example of that. You got an elite grappler who dominated the fight with very little damage. Yeah, when I dominated it to the point where you're in the worst position

you could be in in MMA. You're in a crucifix. Over and over again. Every round. Over and over again. And you can't do shit about it. You let him just... You can't do shit about it.

So do you think that is he's worried about him exploding? Because in my head, I'm like, the fight ends if I elbow the shit out of you right now. I think he's worried about the chaos and Drik is getting back to his feet. And, you know, they wanted to just win. This is the whole thing because he came back to his corner, apparently. And this has told him. me secondhand, but I'm pretty sure it's true. Yeah.

By a reliable source that he was saying, can I box now? It's like, no. Okay. No, you're not fucking box. His team was like, take him down. He can't, look,

if you got that clear of a dominance, no. That I still agree with, though, as the coach is saying, no, take him down. But I'm saying once you are in that position. Smash. Smash.

Yeah. Your whole thing is smash. Yeah. Smash the shit out. What the hell? Like, I think they just wanted that win. Yeah. Fair.

You know, because it's like, it's such a big deal. Hamzat finally got a shot at the title. Like just like what is the clearest most intelligent If you're betting a billion dollars in this fight, What's the best way to victory? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can take him down anytime you want to.

Hold them down, punch him a few times, make sure in dominant position so you're not gonna get stood back up. If the referee starts talking to you and telling you, you gotta start throwing a little bit of this, do a little bit of that, fake a submission, don't throw all your gas into it. You know, do whatever the fuck you gotta do, but get that goddamn time. Yeah, right? And then, you know, there's going to be some guys that he can't do that, too. Yeah, yeah. And that's where things get interested. Yeah, yeah. But who would you say that is,

though? Because he's, that, his wrestling style is just crazy. Yeah, it's, it's. So Brandon Schaub had been to his training camp. Okay. And he called me up. He goes, he goes, bro, we got to talk. He goes, I just got back watching Hamzaa train. He goes, I've never seen anything like that in my fucking life. He's like, dude, when I'm telling you, he's mopping the floor with like division one all Americans world class grapplers jujitsu black belts he goes he's mopping the floor with people he goes it's nuts yeah yeah yeah because they asked me if I want to spar with him I go he shop goes fuck you he's like fuck you I'm not going in there he goes he goes he was mawling people on the ground he goes I never seen anything like it he goes

it was crazy he goes he's so high level yeah I had the privilege of going to the gym and in Dubai and train alongside him and sort of myself and it's yeah I was like it's a shocking level of grappling yeah and when you can achieve that shocking level of grappling on world class mma fighters why wouldn't you do it this is this is my thing my take on it like if you just want to win and make as much money as possible and keep doing that I make you should finish guys whenever you can yeah but if you don't think you can in the path to victories grappling this is still a sport. Yeah, fair. If it wasn't a sport, there's still be headbutts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's still be all the stamps and stuff, soccer kicks, all the wild shit that used to be, you'd still be able to wear

shoes, who gives a fuck? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's a sport. So if it's a sport, we've got some rules. Yeah, I just don't think, I don't think there's anything wrong with winning by the rules. It's not my favorite style. Fair, fair, fair, fair, fair. My favorite style is either a knockout artist or a submission artist. I like a guy who just finishes everything. Yeah, Olivero when he was, yeah, when he's in his prime. In his prime, just kill us. Yeah, yeah. Catching triangles and darses and, oh, my God, he was a monster. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was so good. Those guys, like, when you watch a guy who's, like, an elite world-class submission artist and the fight goes to the ground, it's just a totally different thing. You know, you're in real, like, Fabricio Verdoom, when he was in his prime, when he caught Fador with that triangle. Bro, that was... Catching Fador with a triangle is crazy. Yeah, crazy.

Yeah. Just, if you know how explosive that guy is and how fast he is and strong and what a great grappler he is. Yeah, yeah. Fabricio Verdume's another guy. who doesn't get his due. When you think about all-time goats, you think about Nogera, you think about Fedor,

and you think about Minotaro, and Fabrizio Verduem tapped them all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He tapped all the grates. Very true. All of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tap them.

All the grates. Didn't just win by a decision. Yeah, didn't just hold down. Tap Fador when Fador was Fador. People were like, whoa, that's crazy. Faddle's a beast. Bro, he was a monster. Stoic warrior from Russia.

No expression. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's the earliest of his time. Way ahead of his time. Way ahead of his time. Ability to catch submissions off his back with lightning speed. He had a lightning fast arm bar. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And power on the feet. Yeah, yeah. But he walked down Krocop. Yeah, it's crazy. Crazy. With stand up. Yeah, yeah. Crocote's head kicks were insane.

Every kick. every key but like fedor was blocking them so intelligently too he was using that high block yeah yeah yeah yeah way up like that to catch that left kick yeah yeah yeah and he caught it they caught it shin to shin many times it was that was a crazy fight but fadour in his prime was so good man because he was the first guy other than minotaro minotaro but he was more dangerous on the feet than minotaro but minotaro on the ground was like one of the first guys like super dangerous off his back yep yeah just super super super super lethal guard.

Like when he beat Bob Sapp, that was the nuttiest fight in the history of M.A. That was the nutty. Bob Sap was 350 pounds with abs. I was going to say he's kind of like your in Garnu nowadays. But way bigger. Way bigger, but not a skilled. Yeah, no.

He's gotten, yeah, Francis's improvement. Because in his earlier stages, I was just like, yeah, he's got power, but he's technically like. Francis basically beat Tyson Fury in a boxing match. Crazy, right? basically beat him because I scored it for him 100% they did they just couldn't they could not let that happen he dropped Tyson fury with a left hook and then dance in front of him I mean that's that's that's that's skill I mean he wasn't ready for Anthony Joshua because Anthony Joshua

was a different thing yeah he's got more one-shot knockout power it was a bad game plan as well though he gets he likes to switching but again this is where the boxing is if you don't have that kind of intellect in the box and that footwork and foot positioning is put your foot on one side you're going to get killed you're putting the foot on the other side yeah you're you're you're safe you can kind of manage manage the power and see the punches coming but he was kept switching stances but just putting and leaving himself in just the wrong positions yeah he wasn't ready wasn't ready wasn't ready there was a lot of hype off the fury fight also joshua got to watch him box and the fury fight see some patterns fury i think probably took him lightly yes i

think so it's one of the greatest of all time this guy's never had a boxing match at the beginning he's like time to go to school yeah yeah yeah and then you probably got stunned and that was it he's now working you talk to any fighter they will tell you the worst times of their life is when they thought that a guy was nothing yeah and then in the middle of the fight they realized oh my god I'm losing yeah yeah yeah yeah they took a guy lightly and they didn't get up for the fight yeah and then they went in there and that dude was fired up yeah yeah yeah yeah you know you got this thing you can't take anybody lightly though no Mike Tyson Buster Douglas another perfect yeah 100% no one this guy was partying every day yeah he probably exactly he does not take it seriously at all

you got big up the big respect for buster douglas on that one though that was oh my god it was one of the greatest performances of any heavyweight title fight ever yeah yeah to want to walk in and do that as well the fact that that guy could do that the whole time but only did it against mike tyson is nuts because he was one of those guys and we all know them that it's super talented and just never realizes their full potential like gym you know guys in the gym they're like you know guys in the gym they're like You'd see him sparring. I talk about this all the time. Like, I've had so many people, obviously, I've got to see over the years that are talented.

And again, it's the same thing, but can you do it when it counts? Can you do it when the lights are on? Can you do it when there's pressure and it means something to you, you, your friends, your family, money? Yeah. Can you still do it? Yeah. That's when it counts. But I've seen guys that are, there's a guy, actually, and I always talk about him just because he was super unique.

And weird enough, he got to the UFC on a short stint, galore before. though. I don't know if you ever remember him. He only did, he only had two fights, but he fought Charlie Ward and I call it Hadukin. He just grabbed him and like threw his head into the floor. Oh, Jesus. And it was a K-O.

And I don't know, he actually never got the bonus for that. I don't know how he didn't, because I've never seen anybody just throw someone's head down. You need to watch it at some point. Oh, look. Boom. There you go. Oh, God.

And if you keep it going and you see how he finishes, he's like Wow That dude landed hard Yeah yeah And if you see the finish Look at this is how athletic this guy was Just watch

Lightwork Just landed just landing A little Perfect landing Yeah perfect landing Now I had to deal with this Every day Yeah

And that was nothing He's super explosive But again he's a striker Very weird striker Like kicks He's kicks are like his hands He can for ages, yeah.

I was sparring him one time and me and him, like, I'm the guy with him when he steps in, my eyes do this. And I'm like, okay, I have to make sure I'm because a kick will come from anywhere. And we're sparring and going back and forth. And I'm in my element.

And everything slows down for me. And I see his head drop down. And alarm bells are going off. And I'm like, he doesn't he doesn't shoot he doesn't go for takedowns but I'm feeling alarm bells going on like

something's gone wrong I don't know why this felt this slow something is wrong and I've never done this block in my life and I went like this X block I've never done this in my life never been taught this

my body said throw your hands he did that and did a cartwheel kick front of flip. Oh, geez.

Landed on his foot and axe kicked me. If I didn't do that, I'd be sitting here in two right now talking to you about the story that I once used to do MMA and this guy split me in half. And he's front flip axe kick. He's in a front flip axe kick. That's crazy. On his Instagram, I don't know if you'll find it, but on his Instagram, there's clips of him doing it on a bag.

And he literally flips, lands on his foot, bah, hits the bag. And he's just standing. but he did it I've blocked it now even that alone because I've now blocked it you should fall off balance he took his foot off and carried on sparring everyone in the gym was like

what the fuck how was that I never even thought anyone could do that he's another person that in the cage he never showed this stuff I've seen him someone in a single leg and he's run up the cage and slipped up the single leg and kicked

off the cage and landed behind the person and I started I'm to it always when I talk about this it sounds like I'm exaggerating he used to do stuff that I've net it's only in games and this is why everyone is to love him do that flip I believe every word you're saying he's because that was crazy the landing was crazy yeah like it was like it was a feather he's not like this yeah no he landed soft on one knee yeah he was insane but just never showed it wow Is he retired? Yeah, he's like, he teaches and stuff now, but he just, and it's a shame, and he was a fun character, like I said, an amazing person to train him because he made me better

because he's, and he's got the few people that in the gym that could actually kick me in the head and, and catch me because I usually I'm good at seeing, I've got good eyes and he's just, yeah, it was just something else. Crazy that you knew it. Like, you had intuition. I don't know what happened. But as often said, if you don't do this, you're going to die today. Wow. Wow.

That's crazy that you recognize that of all movements. Yeah. But again, he's, because, like, he never shoots. He's a striker. He was sprawling and then start doing his jiu-jitsu from there. Never really shoots. And he just went like this. And I'm like, what's going on here?

There's, yes. I don't feel like sprawling. Something's wrong, but I don't feel like sprawling. Oh, here you go, here you go. Oh, my God. Yeah. He does one, he does one in he lands. that's crazy boom that is so crazy imagine doing that during a sparring it doesn't make sense

and he's he's i'm talking he's hitting the bag boom look that's crazy and i tell people people feel like you die you're talking rubbish you can hear that oh if that hit me that is so wild and i wish he was able to show this explosion you have to have the pull that off the amount of force you generate yeah and who would see that coming i don't i still don't to this day know how i saw it coming but wow if he did that and again he goes into he went into these fights and he would it would be relatively basic it would he wouldn't show all of this kind of stuff so he would tighten up in fights yeah he'd just tighten up a little bit and just wouldn't express himself in the same way did anybody at that time work with like a

mental coach? No, I wouldn't, from our gym, the only person I know did it from our gym was actually Alex Reed, but he is a weird character anyway. Funny guy, lovely guy, but he used to have like therapist calm and do this kind of stuff. And at the time, he, I feel like I didn't care for it because he just made it seem lame.

It's just because it was from him, but I understand more so over my time the importance of the mental aspect of things as well maybe if someone could explain to him or if you could have a conversation about what goes wrong when he competes yeah like what are the thought process when he competes and what could be done different to change that thought like to combat them when they those thoughts come up yeah to have a tool yeah have a mental's toolbox we go no no no yeah we're not going to entertain this kind of negativity we're going to stay positive we're going to stay zen And, you know, the most important things,

don't ever give in anxiety. Don't let it get to you. Don't let it follow. You're positive. You're breathing. You're moving. You're a killer. Keep moving.

And just have someone with him maybe initially to coach him through those movements. I wish there was some, again, but again, also maybe the gym that he's in with us at London shoot, that's not a thing. We beast that way. We're just going to. And the thing is, he still look amazing up into the fight.

He'd get to the fight. And you'd be like, I can't wait for people to see this. Right, right. And he'd get there and you're like, what are you doing, man? And it was just, it's frustrating because he was still super talented.

He's still, you know, he won one. I think he lost the next one and then that was it. But even his previous fights before that, he's got some exceptional fights. But just never. Not what he's capable of doing. I've never seen what I've seen in the gym on stage.

Wow. Never seen. And he still got signed to the UFC. Just because he was still talented. but and obviously somebody saw his talent and was like yeah i want that but and nobody's ever seen what i've seen this guy do and all of our teammates are like oh if you're seeing that this yeah everybody would be throwing money at this guy just make sure he's on the next card it's crazy yeah it's really crazy yeah because it seems to be like that in

almost every sport yeah but in fighting in particular yeah yeah because it's the biggest mental hurdle you know there's there's no team to fall back on there's no i guess we lost tonight boys no you got fucked up in front of the whole world and that's the sport that you're in you're in the sport with the highest highs and the lowest lows yeah yeah yeah so that pressure is just it's unexplainable to the average person yeah i you can't explain it really this is why i try my best to focus on the element of fun because i feel like when i'm in when i'm dancing smiling, laughing, joking. Everything slows down and everything's enjoyable.

There's no stress. And anytime I feel slightly stressed, you might see me dance, which is interesting because people just think I'm just doing it for the other person to mock the other person. And sometimes it's just, I just stay chill, man. You're here, you're here.

Like, you don't need to do anything more than this. Right. If I feel like a little bit like, oh, that's a bit and my mind starts going, no, no, no, no. Let's shake it off, get into this, get into your mode again and then go back to enjoying yourself. That's my, but I know

some people need to be in this angry state and just, you know, psyched himself into it. And I don't even need to be angry at my opponent. And I think that comes from the fact that I used to have to fight my siblings. It's never, it's not based on anger. I love them.

Like, but my dad is, you say like, that's not your sibling on the map, but straight afterwards, make sure you pick that person up, make sure they're good. And again, my brother would beat me up my other brother beat me up my sister would beat me up everybody but i still had love for them so i don't i'd never needed anger to thing and and the fact that my family did this thing and even my nephews and stuff now we still they still it's generation or just something that keeps us all together and we're so close it's not based on being angry just based on

learning something enjoying something and doing it with people that you love so i can that's why i can make it fun everyone loves this whole like tense like and I don't I think what a lot of people don't don't understand too is the hardest part of it is the day of the fight it's not the fight once a fight starts happening oh yeah you're there you're in it you're in it yeah it's not scary yeah unless you're you know unless you're getting fucked up yeah yeah when you're getting fucked up and you know like the end is near yeah there's like like you want to see ultimate bravery callio roundtree in the last round were Pereira yeah Pereira's putting it on him that's ultimate bravery because he knows he's getting

fucked up he knows he doesn't have much time there's nowhere out his skill set is all in stand-up I mean he can take guys to the ground but at this point that's yeah it's not happening yeah face is broken off it up and Pereira is doing that cobra thing where he gets Cobra style yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's beautiful it was terrifying but that's that that kind of bravery in front of the whole world a lot of people they're not sure if they have that yeah fair and so there's just that the pressure of that in front of the whole world like that is overwhelming just do enough just do enough exactly they're scared which shrinks you and sometimes super duper talented people are the most scared because it kind of came too easy for them there's a thing about super duper talented people that for some reason like that gift comes with a curse and that curses that it came to you too easily so you never really develop understand the grind yeah the real will and drive to like overcome

just make these little tiny wins every day to pile onto a skill set. You're just a lightning bolt. You know, you're a lightning bolt and then, you know, when it's time to actually fight, you're like, you don't know if you've been tested. You don't know who you are yet. I think I get that a lot though, as in that

people are always like, he's just naturally talented. And only when I tell people that I used to get my ass handed to me. But this is the thing that I've always said. Guys who grow up with brothers, especially older brothers who can kick their ass, they're ready to fight at all times because they're fighting in their fucking house they're ready to fight with guys who can beat them up their whole life just that alone like sets you up for competition in a different way than someone like I grew up my sister we didn't fight yeah yeah fair yeah it's like

nobody beat me up at home it's totally different yeah you're you're accustomed to being around hostile males who are dominating yeah was it old or younger though younger sister okay yeah because my older sister was still beat me out my sister never got into martial arts. I was the only one in the family got into it. Oh, okay, okay, okay. But if I did, if I grew up with a bunch of brothers, I'm sure we'd be beating the fuck out of each other. Yeah, yeah. Weird enough, we had to do it. That's one thing again. He'd always

say, you can't, no, this is not for out here. This is for in there. If you've got an issue, verbalize it. And if you still have an issue, we can sort it out in there. But yeah, I'd be annoyed at my brother. We'd have fights every now and again, but nothing crazy. But it's just the accustomed, being accustomed to just constant back and forward.

How about fuck you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like it's in your house. It's in your house. I was the wind up. Oh, yeah? But I couldn't fight, so I had to do it some other way. Yeah, I took some shit.

You also have to be a little tougher because you're the smaller one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's part of the thing, you know. What's crazy about John Jones is his brother. He's got too old about us, no? Well, I think one of them is younger. Isn't Chandler younger? But they're all beasts.

Yeah, yeah. Of course. So you've grown up in a house of beasts. Like, you better, you better be ready for some hostility. You got to be ready for some aggression. There's a giant benefit of that as far as mindset. Because the mindset, you're accustomed to hostility. I mean, all his brothers are super freaks, just giant athletes.

And so, you know, he's in this house with highly competitive males his whole life. So you're totally accustomed to competition. Whereas with some people, competition is like super overwhelming. And it's a test you don't want to take. You almost don't want to find out if you're good enough. I think even the school system has like they slowly, over the years, they've slowly taken out certain things that allows, challenges people in a way that gives them that gift of being competitive. Especially in the UK, I don't, I'm not sure about in the States, but in the UK, they changed the rules.

This was just after I would have left to not allowed to pick teams because, you know. Because then people who feel bad if they got picked last. I'm like if you're a shit, I'm not picking you. Get better. This is real life. That's how it works in real life. And that bad feeling of getting picked last. Lionel Richie was talking about that yesterday.

Oh, serious. Yes. Did Lion Richard before he was in a band. It was always like he was the last one to get picked for this. He was the last one. He was talking about that openly. But look, that's what created Lionel Richie. 100%.

And again, I think we, or again, over there, I'm not sure here, but we model, mollycoddle, like, the kids. And then they think that they do, you surround them in cotton wall. Yep. And then the real life hits them and they're just like, what? It's the opposite of Yoel Romero. Oh, yeah, exactly. You big time of my jean.

It's the opposite. It's the opposite of that. I think I was talking to it with my brother as well earlier about how they say, was it, I forget the saying, it's like tough men create good times, good times, and that whole cycle of that. And it's, I find it's very true, though. We're creating too much good time for people. And everybody's complaining about everything.

Exactly. When things are really good, the problem is whatever is bad, even mildly becomes a giant thing. Then you're dealing with like microaggressions of work. We get crazy. They look for all kinds of grievances everywhere they go. Yeah. When you are involved in like hard competition, you're not interested in any of that stuff. At all.

Because it's just a giant. distraction the real thing is so difficult and that's why I think even though it's uncomfortable for kids I think like wrestling in high school any kind of competitive sports in high school martial arts especially so valuable for you for ages I've been saying this like just it's okay to lose it's okay to lose and it's actually good for you very good for you and you need to learn this kind of stuff like I said as soon as you as soon as they're out of your care they have to experience that anyway you can't you're not you know and I used to do this even in um when i was teaching

we're teaching a jab or something teaching a jab and we're doing slipping drills and you're jabbing like this i was like you're not helping anybody by jabbing away from their face because now this guy thinks he's amazing at slipping punches right and then we make him spot and he's like do doosh doosh move your fucking head now i'll do what i usually do

so i'm like it's better that you hit him in the gym so then when they go out into the real world or they go into a competition and whatever, they can actually, they're actually good at these drills that I'm giving you. You're not helping by trying to be helpful. Yes. You don't have to hit hard,

but be accurate. Get them used to it and then slowly speed up. Yeah, and, bro, I say this all the time, but it's exactly the same thing. People need to go through those actual trials and tribulations in certain areas so that they can be ready for it later on. 100%. And this idea of protecting them

and everybody gets a participation trophy yeah that's so bad for it's hey that feeling of bad from losing is beneficial it's just like the feeling of being tired after you work out that's how you get in shape yeah yeah yeah it's all good exactly it's all good for you're getting into a emotional shape but this is why i feel a lot of people are trying to take shortcuts for everything nobody really wants to do it's the hard work yeah yeah yeah nobody wants to do the the the the hard work and and i get it if it's if you're if it's really excessive you let you get get to a certain point and it's like okay you need to get at least some help to get to a certain point to then work but you need to work and it's good for your brain your brain is we have for whatever reason a whole series of human

reward systems that are built into our brains from the times that we were all living in tribes thousands and thousands of years ago and in this brain it requires tasks there's things it's like enforced in your brain that if you go out and you make arrowheads and you hunt the deer you have food your family surprise so you have tasks so they're whittling the stick and you're into it and you better be

fucking into it because if you're not into it you're not going to eat so if you have a life where there's none of those things and you're sitting there in front of Netflix of the channel of course you're depressed of course you're depressed your body's not getting any of the stuff that it needs your mind isn't getting any of the

tasks that it needs someone was telling me like it's the reptilian mind set that looks for dangers or seeks for dangers because we're not in a society that has those dangers our dangers are now this person looked at me funny or this person or even worse your phone

yeah it's even easier now yeah people are commenting on you like oh the haters to get me today yeah to be fair it's funny the first time this was still earlier so my comments were from YouTube initially I had an Instagram but didn't really use it like that

so after my first fight I was super pumped I'm like because like I said to you I was so nervous after my first fight and I always say I always say look

if you watch all of my walkouts are being like yeah vibes yeah yeah I'm just happy to be here my first fight I was like this

I was dying inside Joe just like in my head literally I was like why did I decide to do this I was like why am I here But I was stressed

The whole walk was the most The longest walk And you've never seen me so tense And then the second I got in there And the bell rang I was like Oh yeah same thing Okay Then I started to feel myself

And you know the vibe Like my energy started Like the MVP That we obviously come to know now I came out And that was for me That was just like That was great

But in terms of I just lost where I'll go ahead you lost what you're talking about yeah yeah no worries it happens all the time so but that was interesting that then the second fight was the one that it really overwhelmed you that was in the second fight in the in the ufc overwhelm me but so the first fight you ever had was when you walked out that's when i walked out the first fight you ever so that was me against is me versus no not you see me versus uh dishman and i just walked out and seriously i just had nothing but fear inside me What kind of athlete was he?

What did he do? I'm not sure he's a kickboxer or something. Didn't seem as first fight. We had, I had like, I think three pullouts before I got to that fight. Like, probably like three weeks before, three different people. And at that level, it happens all the time. Yeah. And I had fights online.

So my coach was like, can you, are you able to take these down? I'm like, they're random. filmed from so many random people yeah so like i wouldn't even know how to where to begin to find out to try and get them taken down so i just if anybody did research they would see that i've got i had like a 720 kick so it made sense why people was pulling out for people that don't understand what that means that's not a 3603 603 kick this is one of them this wasn't even the first time I did it. Where is it?

Yes. Is it coming up? It'll be off to this off. If I'm okay, yeah. Okay, it's going to be. Yeah, I said just before this, just before this. That's crazy. That's such a crazy kick.

That dude is sitting there going, how the fuck did he hit me with that? He put his hands on his knees and everything. like how the fuck did he pull that off so i understand why like people would look at that and be like no not not i mean let's yeah yeah but this guy stepped in uh and yeah like i just i felt so bad negative going forward walking in but then once i was in there but yeah if you see the walk out oh this one doesn't get it but even how i'm even here i'm super tensed like it was only until I started bouncing that it was even a thing

what was the thing that was bothering you the most about doing this just just my decision like why did I do I don't know specifically oh but once you got loose yeah once I got in there I was like cool he had an obvious game

yeah he was trying to take me down he wasn't strong so I was like yeah just push off like I was feeling good and I think after he felt my strength he was like okay it's kind of stood back that's dial such a problem it's such a problem I'm watching you move here and I'm thinking like what do you do oh you can't do anything you can't do anything because he's so far away from you and you like that when you try to close a distance on him and or when rather he tries to close a distance on you and he

just can't he just can't get close like look at that that's just nuts that's a terrible puzzle to try to solve in real life. Wow, look at that dive. That's pretty good, though. You got a hold of your ankle. I mean, that shows you how much you wanted that takedown. Yep. Until this happens.

Oh, boy. The best part is just the standing there. That's amazing. Look at this. This is amazing. That's the best not walk off K-O ever. Right? That's a standoff, K.O. Like, you realize, that's crazy.

You didn't even look at him. That's amazing. You just stared at the crowd. It's funny when people asked me, like, why did you stand there? Like, what if he came back? I was like, I landed the kick and I stood still, and I was thinking he might come back, so I'd go to spin the other way and land another kick. That was, that was the game.

And then when he just, the referee stepped in, I was like, perfect. This looks good. It looks good. It looks slick as fuck. Okay, that's where I remember I was going. And I went crazy viral for that. Everyone was like, who is this guy? Like, da-da-da-da-da.

And I was, I was like, because of the relief that I had because of how tense I was, I was like, oh my God. Like that was for me ticking the box like, I can actually do this. I can actually make a career of this. Because I wasn't sure. And got home, where did you jump online? Like, I want to see, like, I'm seeing a video like crazy thousands of like comments and this and that.

Like, okay, yeah, maybe the next comment. Maybe the next one. Nope Yeah People don't like me They didn't like you for that video I felt like I had murdered someone's child For that video

Yeah Okay It just that just shows you Why you shouldn't read comments No 100% Because you're only getting the opinions Of the dumbest motherfuckers alive If you just saw that

Yeah So let me tell you my thought When I saw that Because when that clip went viral I went finally Yeah yeah yeah Like this is proof of what I've been saying

For a long time I'm like, they have a different thing. Yeah. Like, the really elite point fighters have a totally different thing, and you can't even get close to hitting that. And we're seeing that now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the beginning of it.

Yeah, yeah. Because even though Raymond had really good success in glory, yeah, he was amazing, yeah. He did a great success in glory, but it was different, right? Because you're in a small ring. It's roped off, and he wasn't accustomed to leg kicks yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He had a, he had, that one spectacular, jumping side kicks, spin back kick to the

face oh he he nearly hit me he nearly hit me one of those he was very famous for his double back kicks oh my god and then every night again he would hook it and it's like he's not people out in the points game for it and everyone's seen it like and i remember the i think it's the first time i fought him and i was young but i had a reputation he's the he was the guy like over in america i had a reputation and we know we've we've collided um i was like i don't care who this guy is man, I was feeling myself. I was killing everybody for ages. I remember faking, like moving, moving, moving around, moving around, faking, faking,

got him in the corner. I was like, oh, perfect, boom, blitz. Same thing, I was like, something's off. Boom, did this. Bah, bah! But both, normally the first kick is light. Both stamps. I was like, shit.

Not only was that fast, but that was powerful as well. And that just got into my head. this threw me through me right off I didn't want to commit to any of my my strikes and it just it just from the first from the first moment he let that go I was like yeah it was very dangerous dangerous very dangerous dangerous dangerous and he was another guy that like you know proved that point that this is a completely different skill set and if you don't know how to deal with that you're in real they took the elite guys took like the

nicky holskins and the Joseph Voltaini's those guys to figure Nicky was beast. Yeah, just chopped the legs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Nicky was so technical. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was a tight, hands up high, chop the leg, chopping the leg. He was a beast.

Yeah, chopping the legs, man, is a totally different ballgame. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As soon as the legs start getting chopped, you're like, oh. It's hard, you can't bounce anymore. But that's the thing, it's weird, because I started to utilize that as a way to win fights. Weird, not obviously taking the leg kicks, but only giving you that option. So everyone's like, yeah, but that's an awkward style. I was like, yeah, but when I stand in front of you like that,

you don't think to do a punch, because I feel way too far away. So you're not doing a punch. You're not, the only thing you have is what's in front of you is a kick. So it's like I got used to timing kicks as you're kicking, collision going in, or just pulling just off and then putting my foot in slightly deeper. And then just pulling off and put my foot in slightly deeper. Now I know I can pull this trigger when I'm ready.

And you're getting more and more demoralized because you're not landing. You're throwing a kick, he's swinging around. And there's only one thing available. And there's only one thing available. Yeah. So I have to keep pressing that same button. Right. And the idea of you shooting on.

It feels far. Yeah, too far. It feels very far. Well, that's the Hamzot thing. It's like Hamzot shoots from the middle of the fucking octagon. That guy's got a crazy shot. That shot he hit Whitaker with and the one he with, who is it? Oh, the leech.

When he picked up the leech, he picked him up, carried him over the day of white. Yeah. And it's like, I kill everybody. Like, whoa. this is nuts he was another guy they're like how the fuck are you making 170 yeah he's a big he's a big when I first met him I was like what are you talking yeah 170 yeah big boy I fucking hate the weight cutting I hate it I hate it with a passion I hate it more than anything in the sport I think it should be eliminated but it's too late yeah I don't think I think people should

get down to a healthy weight and fight for the healthiest weight whatever the hell that is do you think there would be a way to combat that not obviously in boxing they got the you have to weigh in multiple times now Well, some fighters make you do that. Like, Jervante Davis, he made Ryan Garcia do that. He wanted to make sure that Ryan Garcia didn't rehydrate. Mayweather did that to Canello, too. It's just a G move.

Yeah, that's small. That's when you're the A side. You're the smaller. You're the A side. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll fight you. But you got to wait 143 when you get in that fucking ring, bitch. Yeah, yeah.

Guys will take that fight for that, you know, big paycheck, but it's not a good move. Yeah, yeah. But I just think that it's legalized cheating. I just think that it's cheating If you're a 155 pound champion But you weigh 190 pounds That's kind of crazy I agree and if I didn't have to weight cut

Because if you don't join in You're fighting monsters That's true But they would have to fight monsters too Everybody would have to fight a person That weighs what they actually weigh No I agree with that But I'm just saying with the fact that people

Are weight cutting Yes When I got to this arena I'd prefer to just report What I weighed at Yes but because everyone's weight cutting, I was like, oh, you have to.

You have to. You have to do it. Because you'll, look, like, when you were fighting at 170, for people that understand, I'm short, that's 30 pounds less than me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's crazy. Like, that's just a giant advantage that you can't give up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And when you're doing that across every single weight class and every single world championship, the last guy that I know that didn't cut weight was Frankie Edgar when he was a 155-pound champ. when Frankie Edgar was a 155 pound champ he weighed 155 and he moved like a ghost he was all over the place he was fast as fuck he had great endurance

his recovery was incredible because he could take a great shot because he wasn't dehydrated like everybody else was that's the thing I actually feel great at middle weight yeah we definitely have the size for it

yeah I'm naturally that way but it's weird though because people's body tights because they are cut in they're still slightly stuck and not necessarily as frame-wise as as me but they're just slightly stockier and obviously as you say the guys that want to come in and just go yeah they just want to clinch and get you down it's a giant advantage it's

an advantage if they're going to be that much heavier than me as well i'm moving people like even when um uh in my last fight when i got taken down in uh in that in that last round trying to uh against canada near trying to move him i was like jesus this canadaer is huge he's a big this a big boy and he's one of the only guys that's got KOs in three different way classes. From heavyweight, light heavyweight, and middleweight. Yeah, beast. He's huge for 185.

But it's another perfect example. And I think, look, there's something to be said for the ritual of doing it for a lot of fighters. It means a lot. And you could choose to cut less so that you're more healthy the day of the fight. But everyone kind of concedes that you have to cut something. Yeah, yeah. And I just don't think that's smart 24 hours before a fight in a cage.

Yeah, yeah. Why would you deplete your body purpose? because it's basically like getting drunk really is like you're dehydrated shit out of your body seeing people just look a mess and you only have three five 40 hours to rehydrate

between the way ends of the time you're actually gonna fight if you're lucky of 40 hours that's not enough time yeah I can do it I don't care to do it I can do it I just I agree with you and I just it would be if everybody

was like okay let's all just do it at our weights well imagine if people did dehydrate and rehydrated, and we started calling it cheating. You know what I mean? I mean, it would be if people got caught and they looked at it the same way people look at people getting caught with steroids. Fair, fair, fair. Because the reality is right now you can't do it because of the weight class limitations.

There's too many weight classes where, like, where you're at. So 85 to 205, that's nuts. That's 20 pounds. That's so, for maybe people who've never grappled, they don't know what that means, or never been punched. You don't know what that means, but that's a giant amount. I'm fucking horsepower and gravity on top of you. And so if you're, if you've got weight classes at a reasonable space, like I feel like 10 pounds is good.

I feel like every 10 pounds, you can go 45, 55, 65, 75, and if you're in between, you either add muscle or you'll lose weight. You'll stop lifting as much weights and do more cardio. You'll get down to that right. Yeah, naturally. But that's what you are, which you actually are. And if we did that, there would have to be some sort of a hydration thing where they just show up and weigh you. Yeah. Like, you know, like people show up and drug test you now.

Like drug-free sport. They'll just knock on your door. Hey, Venom, what's up? Yeah, yeah. Can you pee in this? Yeah, yeah. Let's talk. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That makes sense to me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, just show up. What do you weigh? Get on the scale. Yeah, yeah. And then you get on scale. Yeah, yeah.

Bro, you are a banam weight. This is crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there's dudes that are out there doing that. Oh, I know, 100%. We always talk about Glacin Tebow When Glacin Tebow was 155 Pounders, he looked like

a bodybuilder. He looked like you weighed 200 pounds when he got into the cage. It was nuts, man. Yeah, the rehydration. I've seen people cut ridiculous amounts and then, yeah, like you said, the way they rehydrate. It's terrible, but it's also a lie. You're not 155 pounds. You're 200 pounds.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, that's what you actually weigh. And I understand why you do it. I understand why everybody does it, but there's got to be a better way. Yeah. The worst I ever saw was Travis Luter when he fought Anderson Silva. I don't remember that one.

He lost, but he had Anderson down. Travis Luter was an elite black belt. And he was in the ultimate fighter. When's the ultimate fighter? I mean, dominates everybody. Dominates people on the ground. Everybody that I talked to trained with him was like guys on a whole other level as far as Jiu-Zitsu. And the day of the way in, he can't make the weight, man.

And he's so dehydrated that his lips are cracked. And he's not walking. into the scale he's shuffling he's just and I'm watching him and he missed the first time and then this is like one of the second or third time that he tried to make weight and they eventually didn't make weight so even if he beat Anderson he wouldn't have won the title but bro he had him down and he was on top of him in the beginning of the round yeah for anybody that's ever roll with Travis if he was healthy and he has you down on the ground like that's it you're you're fucksville yeah that guy's good yeah he was really good but it was just the weight was way too much yeah yeah he was just just drained. And then 24 hours later, you're supposed to fight one of the greatest fighters of all time. And it depletes the liquid

around your brain as well. So you're taking a shot, so you're not going to take it as well. Exactly. Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah, I agree. You're tired. Your endurance sucks.

Everything's all fucked up. Yeah, yeah. Everything's all fucked up. But it's what I get down very close to my weight because on fight week, I'm very low. Like, what do you weigh?

If you're fighting 185, what are you weighing? 185 is easier, though, so 1,9. Oh, that's great. Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't... What about 170?

When you're at 170? I get down to probably about 182, 183. Not that bad. Not that bad, and then cut down from there. That's not that bad. Yeah, I don't... Again, I don't like to over-stress myself. Pereira weighed in at 185 and fought at 220.

He's massive. Fought at 220. Yeah. Wade in at 85, fought at 220. Yeah. Like he said, that's a lot. that's insane that's a lot

that's insane yeah yeah that's so much fucking weight and what does that do to you yeah I've seen people

I can't even remember what fire is he's in Bellator and his he was banging the sauna to get out and his coach

was holding the door oh god you need five more minutes and the guy is kicking the door like bump and he's like I'm never doing that

I don't ever want to feel like that that's so crazy so many guys black out yeah yeah yeah I've seen people passing out and stuff, yeah. Brian Ortega was just in an interview talking about that. He essentially like almost like, how did he describe it?

It was like 30 minutes where he was like in real trouble for his last weight cut. Yeah, he's like, it's just, he just got really wrecked. People have blacked out before he had their head on the tub. He fell off the stage, fell off the scales, wasn't it? She, she stepped back off the scales and then just, her legs just went. Oh, I don't remember. 30 minute coma. Oh, sugar

Due to his weight cut for Al Jermaine Sterling Holy shit But he misses he keeps Yeah yeah this is too much for it I don't know why Why does he just go up Well that's the problem Is the guys at 55 are jacked

I think he just He dialed in his diet though He looks a lot thinner now Like he showed Pull up some of those photos He's got on his Instagram He's been taking photos lately Like he just

He realized like he can never do that again So he's lost a lot of body fat Oh that's good I think sometimes that is The discipline of it as well Yeah look at it Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Way leaner. Big difference. That's where you need to be. Yeah. That's where he needs to be. 100%. You know, I used to live that good life.

Same. Even when you said about, like, having, like, random weight checks, he'd make me consider a certain burger sometimes. Yeah, but they would have to give you an out of shape clause. No, of course, of course. You know, like, give you, like, 10, 15 pounds in between fights. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then once you start training, they should be able to randomly show up during those six weeks,

yeah yeah that's true Michael get on the scale 174 okay good to go good to go we're inside of six pounds because what you actually cut what you're saying at 85 is perfect in my opinion yeah I don't I don't like to be five pounds is just a good weight sauna session yeah it's not that much

you're not losing a ton of what you're not killing yourself yeah yeah maybe you ride the bike for a half hour like what do you do I literally do a 30 minute jog it's like really low with a sauna suit on straight away, I take that off, go straight into the sauna, 15 minutes, then wrap, 15 minutes and wrap, and I'm done. See, that's perfect.

Yeah, that's actually probably therapeutic. Yeah, that's what I mean, it's not, it's not bad for you at all. That's probably actually very good for you because you're giving your body all this recovery from the sauna and you're getting a nice little cardiovascular workout, but nothing crazy. You're giving yourself a lot of heat shock proteins. You're not killing yourself. Yeah. But there's guys, man.

I've seen them. And they look like, okay, here's the worst one. The worst one. Other than, other than Travis. Travis was the worst because I watched him shuffle backstage. But the visuals is T.J. Dilshaw when he went down to flyweight. He fought Henry Sehudo at Flyweight and he looked like a dead man. Yes, yes, I remember this.

He looked like a hostage that had just gotten released and had not been fed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He looked fucking terrible. Because he gets quite jacked as well. Yeah, he fucked up. Yeah, yeah. He fucked up. Look at what he looked like on the left.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's crazy. that picture right there's quite big there right but that picture that picture is fucking crazy that's a prisoner of war yeah you know what I'm saying like that's not a guy look at what I mean yeah well now he's fucking yeah now he's a tank now he's a tank that's a the one on the right is not fair because that's yeah that's yeah he's finished down but yeah a buck 65 now he's fucking jacked he's massive but he was uh he's another guy that doesn't get the credit that he deserves when he fought hennon and barow I love

this style pure flow yeah it's Pure flow. But it's the level changes of the up and that. You don't know where he's attacking. It's not linear. It's not just, I'm going here or I'm going here. Switching stances constantly.

Yeah. I used to love watching his style. Have you ever talked to Ludwig? No. Oh, you should meet Dwayne Bang Ludwig. Okay. And talk to him because Dwayne is the one who coached him in that style. Okay.

Dwayne, who was an elite kickboxer himself and fought in the UFC. At one point in time, at the fastest ever knockout in the UFC. I think it was a five. or six-second knockout in the U.S. He was one of the fastest ever to step back, one right-hand plan. But Dwayne was a beast, but maybe even better than he is as a fighter.

He is as a coach. And he doesn't have that style. This is what's crazy. He devised that style. So this is Dwayne, watch this. There it is. So you can call it six seconds. I don't even think it was six.

I don't even think it was six. But the point is, Dwayne's style, like he learned from Boss Rutan, and, you know, it was like Dutch kickboxing style. Yeah, yeah. But he realized, like, Dwayne is like this consummate studier of fighting. And he realized that the best way to fight is to overwhelm them with possibilities and options, but have a whole system of how to do that. So his system is all about switching stances and combinations while you're switching and turning and moving. But he's got it mapped out.

Nice, nice, nice, nice. The dude came over to my place with, like, a box. Like this thick binder of techniques and he's a full-on egghead with this shit and T.J. and him just locked up. And the fruits of that labor was the Hennon-Berow fight. Go to that fight, Jamie. So because I feel like this was one of the finest championship performances at the time. I thought it was the best I had ever seen of a guy who was an underdog going into a fight. Hennon-Berow at that time, a lot of people thought was the pound-for-pound best. It was him and Jose Aldo. They were talking about those two guys together. And T.J. just went in there and worked them. I mean, it was like a sparring match. He went in there super loose and just moving around and started cracking them.

Yeah, yeah. It's a fun watch, though. Just get me in there. Yeah. So this is like, Henan Burrow was the boogeyman. Everybody was scared of this dude. He was so fucking good. Look how he starts.

Ooh. Ooh, step in with an uppercut. Just movement, constant movement, overwhelming you. And look, always on the tips of his toes, moving. round he didn't back up at all and never gave hennon burrow the chance to get some momentum going and at the end when he eventually stopped him i mean was just a fucking ruthless combination when he took him out of there but like if you knew how difficult it is to be look at that right hand right off the bat in the first round at this point henna beryl's like oh no i'm in problems

yeah because nobody had thought that tj was going to be capable of doing this TJ, you know was a really good up-and-coming fighter or a really good contender but this was his finest performance and it was in a world championship fight against the guy that everybody thought

was the man and TJ just beat that ass and if you go like further see if you can go to the actual stoppage Jamie further in the fight when he like at this point in time TJ's just styling on them just standing right in front of them

and pop it oh beautiful job Not getting hit, staying right in range, dropping down. Head movement. Oh, look at that head kick. Beautiful. Beautiful. Look at this. I mean, and it's artistic.

It's fucking beautiful, man. Yeah, I love it. It's a beautiful stoppage. Yeah. Like, one of the best championship winning performances in the history of the sport. Yeah, yeah, easy. In the history of the sport. Yeah, yeah.

Beautiful. But that dude, unfortunately, had two bummed shoulders. Oh, is that what it was? Yeah, forever. He had, even when he won the title. his shoulders were fucked. He had torn super spenaduses

in both of his shoulders and I've done one on this side it got to the point where he never got it fixed so it got to the point where they're just popping out so by the time he fought Al Jemaine Sterling

he told the referee in the locker room my shoulder's going to go out of socket oh yeah yeah I heard about it just let me put it back in that's crazy to go in there knowing

and that's so now he had to retire and he had multiple operations on his shoulder and he can't even reach over his head he gets his arm that far Like, that's how fucked he is now. Three months ago, he's got to get another one.

Oh, yeah, you can see, geez. Oh, my God, get another soldiery. They're going to cut off the head of my humorous and turn the head into a plastic plunger. That sounds like a bit too much. I hate it in the surgery for anything. He has the worst shoulder injuries I've ever seen. I know there's been a lot like yours.

Was that from before? It was from wrestling. Oh, he's from wrestling. I think it's just from having torn shoulders and just trying to rehab them and not getting them surgically fixed. Okay, okay. Like, if you, you can have some things loose in there and strengthen everything else up and kind of be functional, but not if you're going to be a world championship fighter.

Fair, fair, fair. And the problem with a lot of those things is once it tears and pulls back, you can't get it back in place. Yeah. So then you have really complicated surgeries where they have to take a piece of your hamstring and stick it up there or some other part of your body and reconstruct what was supposed to be there. And then you have to slowly build range of motion into it. Like, he got to the point where he was too tough. for the injuries that he had where he should have probably got him fixed immediately

and maybe he could have prolonged his career. I feel like it just sounds like he just went back in in terms of getting back into training a bit too quickly. So I feel like the rehab can work. I know obviously there's certain things you've got to need surgery for but there's a lot of my stuff I've managed to bring it back. I don't think he had surgery until after he was done fighting. Oh, so he didn't even have surgery?

No, he had surgery on one of his knees because he blew his knee out in the San Hagen fight Or I should say Sanhagen, after talking with Sanhagen about what happens in that 50-50 position, Sanhagen blew his knee up. Oh, okay, okay, yeah, yeah. So he put him in a position where if T.J. didn't give in, he was going to get his knee fucked up, and he chose to get his knee fucked up. But that was Corey putting him in that position. So he had to get an ACL reconstruction. So that, but I don't think he got the shoulder surgeries until after he was done fighting.

He might have gotten one and then tried to fight again. Yeah. But the problem is, like, his shoulders were fucked. man they were really fucked but that doesn't look fixed well for you to be no no no no no no it doesn't look fixed but I think that's all they could do with it I think it was bad I think it was that bad I'm looking at an article from right after that fight it says it's third shoulder surgery since 2019 okay so that's when he

started getting them and when was that fight was the last fight that he had that was like 2023 the Aljo fight I think was 22 UFC 280 mm-hmm is it 2020 is it 2020 that's when this article okay so he had those shoulder surgeries and then i know he's had a ton sense and since you know like you look on his instagram page it's like every few months it's him and a sling well yeah i'll go try again i know guys that are like surgery surgery surgery surgery and they it never seems to i've never unless i've forced to i don't ever really go down the surgery route i always try and figure out a different way like i've had weird enough it was both my

shoulders but one was uh super spinators the other one was rotator cuff and kind of like some lat injury as well but just slowly back to the point where I couldn't do a push-up when in my last couple of is it Bellator fights yeah my last few Bellator fights I couldn't do a push-up I could still hit in certain angles I was fine but I had no strength in that direction while you were finding well fine yeah oh no yeah yeah so literally trying to get that my my arms would just start shaking I couldn't why didn't you do something about that I was doing I was doing I was doing like rehab aside i was like as long as i can hit you i'm fine like that's so crazy going into a fight

with that kind of a major handicap i've had worse but what's the worst i don't i don't say as an excuse so but the the day before my i and gary fight i couldn't stand on my left foot why not i i i up till today i don't understand it i had um the the ufc p i were in everything they did shock therapy they did acupuncture they were doing everything and I literally had it I had a um if you see the fight I literally had uh ankle supports on and they said you're allowed the ankle supports you can't really have it taped but I had it taped under the ankle support but obviously if I couldn't just do one ankle to do both of them so I had to do both of them and um yeah just the day before the fight I'm not sure if I did anything when I was

cutting weight, like twinged it or something. But I don't remember anything distinct happening, but couldn't walk on my foot. So it was your ankle? You twisted your ankle? It was my ankle or something. And they were working on it. Literally, I was trying to, I was in.

You don't have a single instance where it went? I don't remember anything. All of a sudden, it just hurt. It just like, it hurt the night before. Like when you woke up? You hurt the night before. So on the weighing, it hurt. And I was walking around and it.

I was like, it hurt, but it didn't feel like anything drastic. And overnight, it just got worse and worse and worse and worse. Probably exaggerated by the weight cut, right? Maybe, yeah. And then literally the next day in the morning, we had to go to the PI. My coach was like, bro, if you can't bounce here now, and I have to pull your flat out.

I was like, there's no way I can get pulled from this fight. It's not happening. I was like, it's not happening. Wow. And I went out there, he's like, bouncing. I'm trying to adjust myself and bounce. And he had it, they did the tape that he was going to use for the fight.

And he said he'll come in and do it again just before the fight. And yeah, it was, I was just like, adjusting, adjusting. And obviously I had a... Still had a great performance. Yeah, I had my, so my guy, my videographer, Kishan, he filmed, we're doing a documentary, so he's filmed all of it as well.

It's kind of like I'll wait until it comes out as known, but not even to say it as an excuse, because I was able to, adrenaline just, I'm in it now and fight. But there were certain things I was being cautious of and not wanting to do. But yeah, it was just irritating. But that's probably the worst in terms of how close

to the fight it was, because it's the day before. I've had injuries in the buildup, and I'm like, if as long as I can throw a punch and throw a kick, I'll make it happen. That's the thing that people don't understand when they watch fights. Like sometimes guys, this is one of the things about the rematch this weekend, Ancolaia versus Pereira,

is that Pereira supposedly had a fucked up left hand and rotavirus before the last fight. I believe it, he looked off. He looked off. He definitely didn't look himself. But Ancolaev looked really good. 100%. Yeah, I don't want to take anything away from Ankylai.

When someone looks off, I'm always like, it's like Roy Jones. Like people go, Roy Jones didn't fight anybody. No, no, no, no. Roy Jones fought everybody, but he made him look like there were nobody because they were fighting Roy Jones. Exactly. It's like, so is that what's going on? Like, is Ancolaev that good? And so we don't know.

So we've got to see him fight again. I'd only say no, just because towards. the fifth round, it looked like Pereira could do some stuff. Like it's like, okay, you're actually now landing that calf kick a bit more now. He actually started to do, it's like, why didn't you start like that? He didn't have the gas. Yeah, so if you've got rotavirus,

your gas is very low and you probably your energy level feels very low. So he's trying to be, he's conserving, he's conserving energy and so this makes this fight so much more interesting because hopefully he's had the camp he is. Ankylive hopefully comes in looking exactly the same way he did that last fight.

Yeah, or better. Or better. He's going to be better because he's going to be the champion. I think there's a thing that happens, and Daniel Carmier has expressed this, too. It's like a 30% bump when you become the champion. You know, like when you were talking about when you won that tournament, also you were better. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there's that when you get the championship. Hopefully, you're going to get to experience that.

Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll get to experience that bump. But this is, you know, I feel like that's just we're going to have to see, and it's a very intriguing one. Yeah, because Pereira, if you heard his left hand, that's the doom punch exactly that left hook is that's massive yeah yeah that's the one that's the one if you look at his highlight reel there's so many left hooks when he catches people with that even when he grazed like jamar hill yeah it was a I still don't get it now is he grazed him he's got a hell of a punch on him man and put him out yeah yeah yeah the uri per Hoska one at the end

of the first round you yeah yo and then he head kicks him in the beginning of the second yeah he's got ferocious power that head kick was fast yeah it was fast as well Boy, I hope he's healthy. But I heard he's super heavy coming into this week. Oh, is it? I heard he's like 2.30 going into this week. Yeah. But for him, I guess he's got a lot to cut.

Yeah, some guys can do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know what the fuck learned. Well, I guess if he was able to get to middleweight. Yeah, well, yeah. But also sometimes it makes you lazier as well, like, oh, I can do that. I can eat this. Yeah, and then you get close to the time.

Oh, shit, a bit of work now. Well, he has talked about moving up. Again. Yeah, and so is Uncle I. Oh, yeah. She has, yeah, yeah. Akelyev just said that recently, that he wants to defend the title a couple of times, then move up to heavyweight. I think it's a bit too small.

Maybe, but if you put size on and he gives himself enough time, he's got the skill set, and Aspinall is going to need some fucking challengers. But then does, yeah, fair, fair, fair, fair, fair, right? Unless Cyril Gahn beats him, right? Yeah, yeah, but then does he need, you know, does it, I always say, like, the time that John Jones took up to get too heavyweight, does he need that kind of time? because it takes a while to put on size like that. And actually, it takes ages. Not when you're over in Russia. Fair.

Enough set. Real difficult to get those fucking drug testing guys on a plane. If they do, everybody knows when they're landing. Fair. Good luck. Fair, fair. Stay going into the bathroom while those guys pee. You'll accept glass of urine.

I will hand it to Fatali. candles is do you this is clean urine I'm not accusing him of doing that but I know it for sure listen I mean that it was always like the joke about guys going over to Thailand like why are they going over to Thailand it was good training and also really hard

to get those USADA guys on a flight yeah I know that yeah there's a lot of speculation about that kind of stuff like I just don't I just don't care enough because again it's like I said I don't really have like a schedule for anything, even when I'm, even the good stuff, like the things you're supposed to be doing. I'm just like, eh, I'll just, I'll do it. So you're not like a supplement guy or?

At all. I, I don't take protein shakes at all. No, nothing? Nothing. That's crazy. No, no, no, no, never, never been into it. Multivitamins? Vitamins, yeah, like, but again, I just forget to take them.

Seriously, ADHD mind, I'm just like, you should have someone who makes like a little packet for you. Yeah, so I'm going to get my wife to do it. soon because she's very into that she's very into her fitness and stuff she's a Pilates instructor she's got her own Pilates app and stuff and she's she smartly well I don't even know if she even intended it that way

but she kind of blew up over COVID because she's set up her app at that time and now everyone's at home oh perfect timing it's just perfect timing and she just blew up her apps called Cloud 9 Collective and she does Pilates for women but have you ever done Pilates yourself? Yes I have bro, I did a video with her

and got her to train some MMA and then she's like, okay, you come and do this for lies. She killed me. It's a lot more difficult than I thought. It's so much. But I didn't know. Weird muscles. Yeah.

Inside of your leg muscles. But that's what's actually helped with a lot of my, the rehab side. Because it's those muscles that way we bypassed. We go to the big muscles. Yeah, we want to work these muscles. And it's all those little ones that are not getting worked. And those are the ones that injured.

Stabilizers. Stabilizers. Yeah. And I didn't know that that it was a, a man, I forget his first name, but called Something Pilates, who started it for men in war to help recover guys in war to get them back out to war. But it's become such a female-led sport.

Well, that goes to speak about what I was talking about with the Russians and being technical. You know who was really into Pilates? Kovalev. Remember when Kovalev was the light heavyweight champion? The Crusher. He was fucking everybody up. He was big into Pilates.

He was doing Pilates all the time. And everybody's like, wait a minute, what? That guy? The strength from you get can get from anywhere because, like I said, those smaller muscles that help facilitate the bigger muscles, like, it's crazy. It's the same people that, like, look down on yoga. Like, bitch, go to a 90-minute hot yoga class. Go do that.

It's hard. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to go to a hot yoga. You know, I was more thinking just it's nice to kind of get the sweat going and stuff. I remember the lady, she's like, oh, yeah, go to, if you go to that side of the room, it's a bit, it's quite hot. So, you know, if you're new to here, just go to this side of the room. And I was like, this woman, whatever, man. Get all that hot side.

And she's like, oh, you know, if you ever feel faint at all you, you don't have to continue, you can kind of just sit down. I'm just like, what's she talking about? It's not that hot in here. Google me, lady. Bro. I think, like, three moves later, I slowly, like, just, like, moved the mat. Like, I didn't want to go too far.

I didn't want to, but I moved from the hot side of the room to, like, the middle-ish closer to that side. and then there was one move I was just stretching and like I literally just got lightheaded I was like shit she this is real it's real it's real you see all those little old ladies in there and you think yeah yeah yeah it's difficult my mother so my wife is strong as hell and I'm just like yes it has to be from that like she and she and when I do this session with her this morning because she does some great sessions like when I do sessions with her like she kills it and she's I have to say she's smart in is in how she's done it as well because actually something I didn't didn't know because she's in on her wrap she's done a cycle sinking specifically for women i didn't realize that women have a obviously i knew women 28 day cycle and men have a 20 24 day cycle um 24 hours and they have 28 days so there's specific times that they should be training harder than they shouldn't be training or they should be doing this and should be doing that based on biometrics based on just the time of the cycle of the cycle of the cycle of the

the month. But again, in my head, I'm like, there's the girls that are training our class, and they have to train and do everything that we do. But we don't, we forget that. We're just doing it based on men can kind of just keep going. Well, women should think about that when they're scheduling fights. A hundred percent.

That should be a thing. And as I said, she did it for players. And I looked into it, and I was like, oh, there's actually, this is, like, even down to ice bars, great for you. Not for women, though. Really? Not all the time. But if you look into it, so there's specific times that's okay for them,

but they shouldn't put their body under that kind of stress in the same way that we can. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. So there's loads of, when I started looking at certain, there's loads of things that we forget that a lot of times it's done from a male point of view. Right. Forgetting that way, we're just different. I never would have thought about that in terms of their menstrual cycle and fighting.

Yes. Yes. Of course. Of course. Of course. Yeah. Wow. So yeah, she's put it on.

So individuals can actually be like, her, it was scheduled and say, look, your good specifically for you are good to train intensely today or no you need a very relaxed session and these videos that she's got hundreds of videos on a thing that will come up and be like this is for you this was for you this was for you this was for you but again it just made me think about the women in MMA like you said yeah it's the same thing scheduling even down to for them weight cutting you know at a certain time you're going for their loot of your face they holding weight right like it's just it's just different yeah we don't have any of those issues to worry about But we get them to do the same structure as we would do.

That's a very good point. You know what I mean? They should be more information about that, even for the female fighters. Yeah, they should actually be, like, their coaches should be setting fights up entirely based on. I wonder, like, how many fights they would have won that they couldn't really train right. Yeah, yeah. Because they're cramping up. Yeah, yeah.

We're just different. When you, I've seen some videos of you, you do a lot of pliometric stuff as well, right? And is that something you've always done? Well, it kind of comes with just the, this is why I feel like I can bounce on my cast for ages just because of that constant. And it seems to be a thing now. I didn't really understand it well enough.

It was just kind of how I trained. And now... Did you train like that from the beginning? Yeah, just because of the points fighting style is a lot of that shifting. Right. But did you, but back then when you were doing that, were you just doing the martial arts training

or were you doing specific... Martial arts training with plyometrics. The reason why we did pliometrics, plyometrics more so is because we were also doing a lot of our catas we did martial gymnastics so the forms so i had to learn how to do these crazy kicks and stuff in which i would then this is why i would i would try seven 20s not because uh like i just randomly decided to to to just throw it out today it's because we were drilling them just for katter though and i was like well if i can do it for katter then i could surely i can find the time to throw it when i'm fighting and i

would be like brave enough to try and attempt these things in in the points fighting world and yeah there's a couple kicks that I keep telling people there's a couple kicks that even for me I haven't even shown you what I can actually do yet but there's a couple kicks that I know I can land and it's usually it's easier on people that are well trained so usually the better fighter it's actually easier to hit them just because they are very traditional they're very well trained they have patterns that I can pick up on them like ah you're going to step this way and you're going to do that and i always tell people i call it attaching strings the first minute of the fight not too much happens for me because i'm faking this that that but every time i'm faking something you twitch

i'm like ah this means this yeah you twitch this means this and i just touching strings to you so now i'm moving you you just became pinocchio But that's important. This is why, like you said, all those fakes, but those fakes mean something. Yes. You know what I mean? I'm getting, like you said,

I'm getting that information from you. Okay. Okay, yeah, he wants that. If I do this, he wants that. Okay, I'll see it. Okay, perfect. Now I got it. Yeah, that's what's so important

for a casual fan to understand. Yeah. That there's a whole game taking place that if you could play it, you would understand what he's doing. Yeah. But you're just seeing movement, random movement.

You're like, hit him. Yeah. Hit him. Why don't you hit him? Meanwhile, if you knew, you'd be watching something beautiful. Yeah, exactly. You're watching, you know, a dance.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Snake charming. That's, yeah. It's part of the identity, man. It's part of the identity. I try to tell people, though, but yeah. Do you know when you're fighting again? Have they given you any kind of an idea?

Like I said, I pushed out information. I keep chasing out to find out and I haven't really heard too much back. They're announcing some fights now, right? That's what I'm saying. It feels like things are slowly starting to happen. I'm still waiting. So protest is going to fight Leon Edwards? Yeah, so 170, which is what you're looking at the most, right?

Yeah, I want to get back. I know I'm big now, but... You can make it, though. I can make it. I can make it. And you're just a giant advantage is at 170, too. Yeah, yeah, I want to get back down to 170. Just because, like, I said, I feel like, I think JDM's a great, an amazing fighter.

I just feel stylistically I can beat that, but I can beat him. Well, it's a very good style for stand-up for you. Yeah. That's for sure. Yeah. He's very complete. Very complete. Yeah, he's very, very good.

Yeah, very good. I really like it's all. And very smart. You can tell, he's very smart. Like, yeah, as in specific to the opponent, he's like, okay, yeah. But like I said, that's one of the advantages. It's like you're not going to have, it's going to be very difficult for you, even as smart as you are, to figure that out.

Well, that's why it's exciting for you with any stand-up fighter. As soon as you're fighting a guy who likes to stand-up, it's like, are you sure? Yeah, yeah. Are you sure you like to stand-out? Yeah, yeah. I tell people, I tell people this all the time. Welcome to this new thing that you've never experienced before. This guy can't even touch.

I make these guys wrestlers, man. I make all these stand-up guys, wrestlers. And everyone's, oh, I'm going to strike with you. Well, listen, brother, I can't wait to see you in there again. I'm a giant fan. I'm so happy you're at the UFC now. And I know you do a lot of stuff online, so tell people how to find you. Yeah, so again, it's all the social media, Michael Venom page, everything, Instagram.

I don't really do Twitter as much or X, sorry. My Facebook, YouTube, I'm doing a lot of stuff. ITM actually I'm doing a film company I always try to set myself up for the next stage my creative mind won't stop Do you want to make movies?

I'm making movies I've already made two short movies Wow And again the same Congratulations That's awesome Thank you thank you

And I want to get to acting as all What are they about So the first one was actually about An athlete's mindset One thing that I find with films I think people are lazy watches nowadays They find just explosion, explosion, action, action, action and crap storyline,

but I want story telling again. And this one is just more about an athlete's mindset. I did it through the eyes of a runner, just because it's slightly different. I didn't want to just go down the same lane as MMA. Did it through the eyes of a runner and just how toxic you'll want and you'll need to be the best, how it can look like. And again, I'll go into that one. I'll let people watch that one.

That one is just called runner. The next one's called wait. And it's kind of about what anxiety can look like from a position of waiting for good news and a position of waiting for bad news and how the parallels work and look almost identical. So you're literally watching two point of views. So these two.

so this dude's just freaking out wait for yeah he's he's that's fucking cool if you're doing things like that thank you man that's very cool yeah yeah like I said I'm up creative mind I need to express it in some way and I know when I leave I'm not going to be one of those guys that retire and want to come back I retire I want to come back if I say I'm done

then I'm done. Well, that's great. And I need something else to go into. Nothing better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Having something you look forward to that you actually enjoy and love outside of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because it's hard.

It's very hard for guys to end. It becomes your identity. 100%. And the thrill, you know more than anybody. The thrill of doing that is above and beyond, almost anything else you'll experience in life. My thrill is usually, for me anyway, it comes from expressing art. And we call it martial artists. As much as people see the, the, the, the, sometimes the blood, the knockout.

and stuff, it's art. Like, we just watched TJ Diller's show. That was art. That was pure art. Like, people don't appreciate that side of it. And I'm, I love to paint pictures. And I'm like, how can I continue painting pictures after this stage of my life? I'm like, okay, yeah, cool.

Well, listen, man, if you make movies, like, you can fight, I'm in. Yeah, yeah, trust me. We're doing big things. I believe you. I believe you. My camera guy, Kishan Lekhani, he's, it just worked. The synergies just worked. He's directing films like he's done it for 20 years and he's just unbelievable.

That's awesome. Whereas we're going to do some magical things. I love hearing stuff like that. I really do. I really do. And I got a, sorry, like I said, I got a gift for you anyway. What do you like, red or red or black? You can have both if you want.

What is it? Just a T-shirt. Oh, nice. And it just represents who we are, hands down, martial arts. There's guys that do this and everyone mocks all the time. But it's obviously my brand. so extra large large large yeah let me see large here thank you very much sir thank you and then I'm also I got again I'm into

everything but I got a beef jerky company called snap down snacks for snapping people wrestling snapping them down snap down so snap down or snack down or snack down and some snap down here you go man all right fantastic yes enjoy let me know what you think how do people find that company is it a web Yeah, just snap down on... Snapdown snacks. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And when you're, if you're in the UK next

or when you're in the UK next, let me know. I've got a Mexican restaurant as well, Ixhell. Wow, man. That's great. You're invested in all kinds of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We actually had Kendall's, Kendall Jenner's 818 tequila featuring in there.

We're going to have Jason Mamoa come in end of this month with his vodka. milay vodka so look at you i'm in shaking oh yeah we're everywhere everywhere um all right man i'll see you this weekend yes thank you for doing this thank you man my pleasure i i really enjoyed it i did too thank you bye everybody