The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #176 with Dustin Poirier

Episode Date: March 17, 2026

Joe sits down with Dustin Poirier, a mixed martial artist, entrepreneur, and philanthropist.www.ufc.com/athlete/dustin-poirierwww.thegoodfightgroup.comwww.diamondpoirier.com Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Uber Eats: Score Gameday deals all tournament long Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joe Rogan Podcast, checking out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. What's happened, bro? See you, my friend. Good to be back, bro. Dustin Poier, the light heavyweight. It's thick boy summer.

You looking healthy, son? Yeah, like 190, man. You look good, man. I feel good, dude. It feels good to eat and not count carbohydrates and calories. Yeah, we were talking about that where you, like, still, like, a little part of you, looks at meals and goes, oh. Well, I mean, for the last 20s.

many years, I've been macro and, you know, I knew I had a fight coming up. Even if I didn't have a fight, I had to be in striking range from 155. Right. So I was always looking at the back of every label, being real cautious of what I eat. It's like ingrained in my daughter now. When we go to Whole Foods, she'll grab something off the counter and say, Dad, it only has three ingredients. Like, she knows what's up.

Well, it's good to think that way anyway. For sure. Especially with the ingredients. Yeah, that's the first thing she goes to. Like if she wants some chips, it only has five ingredients. That's like a thing for her when we're shopping. Yeah, well, that's smart, man. That's cool.

You're raising them right. I'm trying to put the stuff I learned in fighting, you know, all the years. Yeah. It's a good use. It is kind of crazy. I think it's the worst thing about fighting is the weight cutting. Do you imagine if everybody just, first of all, tell me if you agree, but I think the UFC needs way more weight classes.

I do, too. Way more. I do too. Because the gaps are so big, I mean, just if you look at boxing compared to mixed martial arts, the jumps in weight are so big from each weight class. But also, all the shows they're putting on, they'd have more titles, more belts, more big fights. But also, man, with that,

there's going to be a lot of people trying to cut a little bit extra, trying to be double champ in every weight class. I think it does cause more confusion. Yeah, but that's better than the extreme weight cuts. The extreme weight cuts are terrible. You saw that dude a few, like, I guess it was about three events ago, who face planted and got removed off the card. Yeah.

That is crazy. You're getting someone to the brink of death 24 hours before they have an MMA fight, which is the most, if not the most dangerous sport, one of the most dangerous sports in the world. For sure. And you're doing something to your body to extremely weaken it 24 hours before you fight. It's bananas. Dude, I did it so many times. You preach it to the choir. I know.

There's been so many times I felt like that, like stand up too quick after a weight cut and I'm like, you know, I might go down. Oh, dude. I mean, I can only imagine. When you see someone like Pereira that's cutting like 25 pounds and more, when he was 185, I mean, that guy was fighting inside the octagon at 225 and weighing in at 185 24 hours before. That's crazy. And even when he's big, he's lean. You know, it's not like he's fluffy. Well, they say that when you're muscular, it's easier to cut weight.

More water. Yeah. Yeah, which is counterintuitive. You see a fat guy, you're like, oh, that guy can cut weight. But you really can't because you can't deplenish your fat. Right. Not in a training camp's time, eight weeks, ten weeks. You can't lose like 30 pounds of fat, but you can dehydrate.

I said deplenish like it was a real word. You can dehydrate yourself. I don't think it is a word. Deplenish? Well, if you can replenish. Right, but no one says deplenish. Can you plenish? No, you say deplete.

But I just threw it out there like it was real. I don't think depletish is a word. Is that a word? Yeah. It is? Yeah. I don't think I've ever used it that way. Oh, okay.

Nice, man. Nice. I got lucky. That was just luck. But I talked to Hunter about it, Hunter Campbell, and we're trying to figure out a way without. It has to be more weight classes. I mean, California instituted a bunch of different weight classes. I think they were doing it every 10 pounds.

I think California also did like a percentage of your body weight. I don't know, what was it, 15, 20 percent. You couldn't dehydrate more than that? That guy Andy Foster is on the ball. And I think that's good, you know. Yeah. 20% or whatever, some kind of rule where guys aren't cutting 50 pounds, 40 pounds. 20% is still crazy.

Yeah, still crazy. I mean, if you're too. Yeah, you're right. 200 pounds, 40 pounds. I mean. It's a lot of weight. Well, that's another thing that freaks boxers out when I tell them that there's a weight limit at heavyweight. 265?

That doesn't make any sense. I go, I agree. Why is there a weight limit for heavy weight? That's crazy. Dude, that gap too, like 205, anything over that, you can be 210 to 265, that's crazy. Crazy. A 50-pound gap that you, you know, but. Well, heavyweight in boxing, like, look, Mike Tyson, when he was in his prime, was only like

220, 215, 220. You know, that's where he, when he was dominating, that's where he kind of fell in that weight limit. I wouldn't, I think it would be a good idea. Anything passed like 230, 235, super heavyweight, you know. Well, the difference been boxing, though, is the grappling. The grappling in MMA, the gap if a guy gets on top of you, is immense. Yeah.

If you got a, like, in Ghana when he was in his prime, was weighing over, like, 300 pounds, and then cutting down to 265. He was a 300-pound natural. He's a guy who's, like, a knockdown power for sure, but grappling, like, if you get a big guy who's 265 and knows how to grapple very well, wrestle this whole life, they get in side control or half guard, you're not getting up. That's the end of the round. Yeah. Yeah. Also, if they did do a super heavy, the fights might be either awesome or it's completely suck.

Well, I think it should be heavyweight should be unlimited. And then you'll find out. Yeah. Because, like, Kane Velasquez, no one's holding that dude down in his prime. Yeah. Even when he was 240. When he was 240 and he fought Lesnar. Lesnar was gigantic.

But it didn't matter because the cardio that Kane had and the speed and his technique sort of, it. He was ahead of his time, man. He was ahead of it. He was like a hybrid, can do everything. Great cardio, good athlete, before MMA got to where it's at now. Yeah. The one fight that I always say that we missed is Kane and Fador in their primes. Because they were both in their prime at the same time, and they never made that happen.

When UFC absorbed the pride roster and stuff, I was crazy. It's crazy that Fadour never fought in the UFC at all, man. Well, they tried. The UFC tried. But Fadour's management were a bunch of very dangerous dudes. Yeah, you don't mess around with them. fucking, yeah, man, there was like tense negotiations, and they wanted a percentage of the promotion. They wanted a lot more than just a big purse.

Yeah, UFC's not playing that game. No. They were like, look, we'll give you, you know, a very healthy purse. We'll bring Fadoor over here. But the problem was when they purchased pride, they thought they were getting everyone's contracts. But the contracts were all bullshit. Well, some guys came over on crazy money contracts, you know. I think Dan Henderson might have been one.

I was a young fighter one time, and I was making this. This might have been 2013 or something, 2014, I don't know. And they came to give me my check. This is back in the day before they wired. They used to give us checks on Fight Night. And they had going through the checks and I saw Dan's and I saw the number and I couldn't believe it. This is before like people posting online Fighter Pay and all that and I saw the numbers he was making. I was like, no way.

Guys rich. Does it make you angry? Nah, no. Because the future, myself looking back or looking forward when guys, are going to be fighting for belts and stuff, the money they're going to make in five years, I'm going to be, I'm going to be that guy. Like, damn, you know, I got out too early or, you know how it is. The next generation always gets more.

Mike Brown tells me that all the time. I was fighting for the belt and WEC defending it making this. You guys on the prelims are making more than I was making, you know? Yeah, there's a weird, that sort of discussion about fighter pay. You know, I've always been of the opinion that fighters should be making more money, period. because like the same way I feel about like the way I run my comedy club, the comedians make 80% of the money. Because I feel like that's who you're paying to see.

You're paying to see them. We make plenty of money. Like with drinks and 20% of the tickets sales, it's like it's enough. Like it should be the, if we had a comedy club and there's no comedians, no one's coming, right? No one's going to pay just to sit there and buy drinks.

Like the whole idea is they're paying to see someone's work. If you fight, that's what people are paying to see. They're paying to see fighters. Without the fighters, there's no show. Without the comedians, there's no show. I understand. But I think the big thing with the discussion of fighter pay is the percentages. When you look at other major organizations like NFL, NBA,

the percentages are so different. Yeah, it's not good. But, dude, at the end of the day, I'm all for fighter pay too. I've been fighting my whole life. But you sign the contract, you agree. This is how business is done. Push for, try to get more of what you're worth. You know, you can't sign a contract.

complain. Right. That's true, too, but also it's like the reality of MMA is if you're not in the UFC, people are not paying attention. That's unfortunate, but it's reality. Yeah. You know, and I think there's some really good fighters that fight in the PFL and really good fighters that fight in one, but they don't, no one knows who they are other than the hardcore dudes. Right. Yeah, I got a buddy Johnny Ebelin who is the Bellator champion. Awesome. I've been training with him since he started MMA when he got out of college wrestling and stuff like right now he can go to the UFC and give the top five guys a run for that money absolutely no doubt in my mind he's only getting better yeah just because you fight in the UFC that's a great organization to fight for the biggest the most known worldwide

but dude there's great fighters everywhere you know like on the mats at american top team there's a dozen guys you've never heard of that can make a run in the UFC right now that's what i heard is a nightmare about training at american top team because it's a revolving door man there's like a hundred professional fighters on the mats at all times. Different camps, they have dorms, so guys are from Russia, guys from all over the world are just in. You never know who's going to be there. And it's tough rounds, you know, every practice of stuff.

Well, not only that, but I've heard there's, like, guys coming in from Russia and they'll throw oblique kicks at your knees. And you're like, hey, man, like, what are we doing here? We're getting ready for fights. We're not in a fight. Right. Yeah, yeah. Like, some of these guys are trying to make their name off of a name guy.

And so you have to be very selective in who you spar with. For sure, and that's any, not just American Top Team, especially guys who are established. Like, if I go to any gym here in Austin and it's open mat or something, I have a target on my back. Of course. You know, that's everywhere. Of course.

But those guys, man, like at a big gym, like American Top Team with the knowledge and the good coaches, those guys get weeded out. You know, you won't stay there long if you're doing that stuff. The problem is if you're one of the guys that has to weed them out. Like, you find out early on, this dude's, you know, throwing wheel kicks. Yeah, yeah. And it happens all the time. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Well, just, you know, make sense. I mean, you're from Dagestan or Chechnya or whatever, and you come to America. It's like, this is your big chance. And I do like to train hard to prepare for a fight. You've got to fight. But, you know, you got to take care of each other. We're professionals. We're feeding our family with this.

Yeah. And injury can ruin everything. Well, there's so many fighters that get concussions in training. And then, you know, they get chinny when they get into the fight. It happens all the time. Yeah. Especially the early days. There was a lot of guys who got hit me.

Yeah. Like, the early days. we didn't really have classes that were organized, man, it was just sparring and choking each other out. With four ounce gloves sparring, like we didn't know, we didn't know.

Isn't that crazy? Like 2006, dude, we used to beat each other up every day. That was MMA training. And then it wasn't these super gyms where everything was under one roof. I would drive to a boxing gym, drive another 45 minutes to a jihitsu gym. You know, it was put everything together

on fight night, but you would train everywhere else because there wasn't mixed martial arts gyms back then, really. I would drive to a kickboxing gym, boxing gym, wrestling, jiu-jitsu. It was all separate. Well, also, you were in a place that didn't have, like, a high volume of MMA fighters in your state.

Right. Back then, like, Rich Clemente, Melvin Galard, were the big guys from Louisiana, you know? Right. Then Tim Crater came. Crazy Tim. Crazy Tim got on the ultimate fighter, and then I went to his gym once he got out of the TV show.

And me and he and he, him trained for years and years. He still has a gym in Lafayette, Louisiana. I love Tim. I'm known Tim since I first worked out with him in like 98 at Machadoes. Well, he was in maybe the Navy, so he was in California station there, and I think that's when he started Jiu-Jitsu. He was Louisiana's first black belt. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah, I knew him from that, and then he was fighting, and he was fighting in the UFC. He was always around the MMA scene. Him and Eve Edwards were good friends. They opened the gym maybe in Houston or something. He was cornering Eve in Pride, and then I met Eve through Tim.

And it's just, it's a big family, man. Eve's a guy that I always say, there was a time where he was the best 155 pounder on earth. When he beat Josh Thompson? He's the uncrowned champion. He should have been the uncrowned champion. There wasn't a belt. I know. Isn't that nuts? Isn't that nuts? That's so hard for people to

understand, like how crazy it is. Like being through the lineage of Thug Jitsu, man, it sucks to say that he can't say he was a champion, but I know he was. He was. He was the best in the world. At one point in time, He was the best. He lived out here before he moved to L.A., so before I moved to South Florida to train an American

top team, I used to drive six hours here and stay with Eve. He always had wrestlers down here. This was like beginning of my WEC days. I would drive down here and train with Eve, man. He was another guy who was ahead back in the day. Because he comes from NHB, like hook and shoot. The crazy days, you know? And he was doing it all.

Good jihitsu, good kickboxing. He fell in love with wrestling. I was such a big fan of Eve, man He invented some moves, too. You remember that one thing that he would do where guys were on a single and he hit a dude with a flying knee, a jumping knee? That was a...

Dude, I'm an MMA historian, bro. That was Elite X-C, I believe, maybe. Was it? And, you know, that was Edson Berto. Was it? I think Andre Berto's brother, the boxer. Oh, wow. Yeah.

Wow. But that... He had a single leg. He was hopping, and then... jumped up and neat and out cold. Yeah, it was crazy. It is a lead ex-Aid. Look at you, bro.

I mean, pray that again. Look at this. This move is brilliant. That's brilliant. That's Edson Berto. And I believe Andre and Edson's dad was a mixed martial artist. Oh, wow. That's such a slick move.

Yeah, he's so crafty, man. Oh, yeah. Well, that head kick that he landed on Josh Thompson from the middle of that wild, crazy scramble, jumping roundhouse kick to the head. Dude, and they still play it. Every opener of the year. They still play it. As they should, I mean, it was incredible.

Absolutely. Yeah, I got to, you got to give credit to Eve. He was one of the real pioneers. For sure. And way before this was cool. Way before. Yeah. But to be stuck at like 155, like that was his weight class, and then there's no title.

Yeah. They were the two best guys in the world at that time, him and Josh Thompson. Yeah. Josh Thompson is another one. Doesn't get the credit he deserves. That's it. Boom. Like, what a slick move, man.

But that was Eve, very creative, you know? Yeah. Man, Josh Thompson, like, peak Josh Thompson for me, what was his strike force when him and Gilbert Melendez maybe were going back and forth? Didn't they have like a... Oh, my goodness. Yeah. They might have had a trilogy.

It might have been two or three fights, but every fight was amazing. Gilbert Melendez. Another guy doesn't get the credit he deserves. Dude, legend. Legend, man. Legend. All those guys, they were the groundbreakers. You know, a lot of these young kids coming up, you bring up Gilbert Melendez.

They're like, who? Like, bro, you need to. to know your history. You need to know how this thing got started. Go watch. Even more newer stuff, go watch him in Diego Sanchez. Right? Slug it out.

Diego Sanchez is another guy that I say is a tweener, right? Wellterweight. Yeah. I mean, he really wasn't really a welterweight. And he, you know, and lightweight. And he tried to get down to 45 for a while. That was just brutal. He was killing himself getting down to 45.

I remember seeing him making weight for 45. I'm like, oh, this ain't good. This ain't going to last long. No. But if, like, there was a 165-pound weight class, Diego Sanchez might have been the champion of the world. Right. Honestly, man, like when I was competing, if they had a 65, I might have entertained it.

70s just too big of a gap because I trained with 70s in the UFC, and I know they're 200-something pounds. And my heaviest, I was like 182, 183 maybe. They're just too big, man. Well, you got guys like Rumble Johnson. When Rumble was alive. Yeah. Rumble got up to 230 pounds in between.

No, he was huge, man. Huge. Huge. I can't believe he made 170. He was living in South Florida, so I see him every now and then. He was huge. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. March is here, and Uber Eats is delivering deals all month long. Each game day score big savings on all the delicious food you need to turn your couch into center court and fuel your fandom. Whether you're ordering in or hosting the whole crew, Uber Eats is serving up deals on wings, burgers, pizza from your favorite restaurant.

Plus, game day snacks from top stores. Bracket busted, still holding strong, Cinderella story or top seed, however the madness unfolds, these deals, keep it going all month long. Visit the Game Day Hub on Uber Eats for all the latest deals and start saving today. He was the ultimate, like, weight cutter. Like, he cut more weight than anybody.

When he was fighting at 170, it was bananas. Like, how are you doing this? I remember running into him at a hotel. I was like, bro, how big are you? And he was laughing. He's like, I'm 2.30 right now. And muscle. Jacked. Like a heavyweight. And he went up to heavyweight. He paid Arlofsky. Which is crazy. He was a legit heavyweight. Yeah. Dude, Andre's still fighting. I know. And winning.

The bare knuckle champion. Winning. He's the bare knuckle champion. Like, how durable is that motherfucker? For the years and the miles that guy has, I have to say, like, taking shots, receiving damage, I don't know if he takes it like he, obviously, he doesn't take it like he used to. But his mobility and his movement for all the wars he's had and the years. years he's been fighting when I watch him in the gym dude he's light on his feet flexible yeah he moves so well and enthusiasm still has enthusiasm for the game yeah which is crazy he loves it he clearly loves it I mean he was what UFC heavyweight champion in 2005 yeah was it like 2005 2005 or 2006 I think he beat him Tim Sylvia maybe when he was the champ first of all that motherfucker had a

piston for a right hand I remember when he killed Paul Bluntello Oh my God. That's a Texas guy. Paul Blentello, another dude. I believe he's from Galveston area or Corpus Christi or something. He's from Texas. Well, if you think Arlowski from 2005, and he was a top 10 heavyweight as recently as like 20, 23.

Well, when he came back to the UFC after that long gap, he went on a streak. He had a bunch of great fight. I think he knocked out Travis Brown. Beat Travis Brown, which is crazy. Did he fight? Did him in Bigfoot? Did him in Bigfoot? 2005, February 5th, 2005.

That is bananas, man. That really is bananas. Man, back in the day, Tim Sylvia used to train at ATT when I first got there. He was the most uncoordinated, unathletted guy. I couldn't believe he was a UFC champion, man. I know. He was like goofy. Pigeantowed.

But down to fight. Oh, down to fight. Down to fight. Yeah, for sure, pigeon toad. His knees were weird. Yeah, they went in. I don't, I tried to talk to it. trainer about that.

He goes, that's learned. Like, you can correct that. I was like, are you sure? The knee? Yeah. The knees bowed in like that was, he said, that's a learn, you could, you could correct that. I was like, really? How do you, what?

I never heard of that. Yeah. That didn't understand how you. It seems like something they would do maybe when you're born surgery, like reposition the bones or something, no? Well, I don't know if it is, I don't know. I mean, I'd have to, I don't want to speak out of turn. I'd have to bring in that guy and have him explain.

to me how you could correct that. But he's like, that's something that could be corrected. That's like learned behavior. It's just from being so big. But, dude, watching him with his toes pointed out doing the ladder drills and stuff, you know, the ladders on the mat, in and out, like, it was so crazy. Well, big guys have their toes pointed out like that. Like, jelly roll went from 500 pounds, and he's downed the, he's in the low 200s now, which is crazy. Yeah. I saw pictures of him.

It looks completely different. Bro, he's lost, like, 300 pounds. And he did it the right way. No O-Zempec, just like diet, exercise, runs all the time. But he has a problem when he walks, his toes are pointed out, and he's trying to correct it. He's trying to be aware of it. When he runs, he runs the right way, like feet pointed forward. You see it too on the bigger guy's shoes.

The corners of the shoes are always flat, like flat tires on the outside. Yeah. They just walk that way, man. Well, you've got to think you have so much weight. You kind of stretch out to kind of balance yourself. Yeah. But I always point to Tim Sylvia when he knocked out Rico. Rico Rodriguez, that Tim Sylvia was a beast, dude.

That was back when all the Mexican supplements were allowed. There was a lot of dudes who were very juicy. Oh, yeah. And Tim, giant traps and huge fucking shoulders. I remember he struggled to get down to 265 for that fight. Yeah, back in the day with the juice was just free-flowing, man. Free-flowing, man. I just worked the UFC desk with Bisbing in Vegas when Max and Charles fought,

and we started talking about the same thing we're talking about now. And he was like, oh, I fought Vito. I fought them all in the height of TRT. Right. You know, he's fought a bunch of guys. Well, that was legal juice, which was bananas. I mean, Alistair. Oh, yeah.

That was the juiciest fight of all time. Alistair versus Brock was the juiciest fight of all time. Yeah. I recently watched the Mark Hunt documentary. and he's trying to like push back and do a lawsuit against the UFC for all the juicing and stuff of it. I mean, it's such a... Yeah, that's a tough, that's a tough road. Because how much can the UFC do?

And it's on the athletic commission as well, right? Wouldn't the lawsuit be against the state, not the UFC? I think his position is that the UFC knew that... But how would they know? That Brock was juicing. I don't know. This is before random drug test. I believe.

Yes. It was before. So I feel like that would fall on the state Athletic Commission. Maybe it wasn't before. Because he did get popped. But it wasn't random. They weren't able to show up in camp. No, no.

Back in the day you would get tested on fight night. Right. You know, they wouldn't knock at your door. Well, it was super clear that Brock was doing something. It was super clear. Like, he was like in his late 30s. He's built like a fucking, like the side of a barn. I mean, there was a bunch of guys back then.

Yeah, a bunch of guys. Yeah. But it wasn't, it was okay. Everybody was doing it. It wasn't, it wasn't, right? Because it was illegal, but it was like, when you have fight day drug tests, that's an intelligence test. That's all that is. Right.

That's whether or not you have good people in your corner. Right. And whether or not you have a chemist. It's going to take this amount of weeks to get out of this many days to get out of your system. Well, there were certain camps that would employ scientists. and these scientists. The crooks are always going to be ahead, you know? They're always going to be coming up with something new

trying to stay ahead of the curb and get away with stuff. And I still think they're probably doing it, man. Yeah. There's probably something that we don't know right now and it's going to come out in the future. That's why they hold on to the drug tests for a prolonged period of time. Yeah, they ask you your consent.

You have to do an extra signature if you let them test it or use it for future. What happens if you say no? I don't know. I never said no. I always give it to them. Well, it's good for you because you're clean. Yeah, I competed my whole career clean, man.

Nothing. Nothing. I was even scared of certain creatine. Like, I got the trusted by sport on everything because I was so scared to be one of those guys. Because every time I see it, tainted supplement. Yeah, sure, buddy. But, you know, sure, tainted supplement. But it could be.

You know, I don't want to be one of those guys. Well, for sure, there are tainted supplements. That's a real thing. And, you know, I know that for a fact because as one of the owners of Onet, when we were doing, when we're doing third-party testing of some of them, of our supplements, we would find stuff in there that's not supposed to be in there. And so we'd have to contact the distributor, the manufacturer, the people that, like, mixed our stuff.

So the way, like, on it would work is, like, AlphaBrain has a bunch of different ingredients that enhance your, you know, your mental focus and clarity. And we would give them the very specific numbers of what's supposed to be in each batch. Yeah. And then we would third-party test. We find a bunch of shit in there that's not supposed to be in there. And it's because, you know, if you're getting it done overseas, they have these vats where they mix all the stuff in, and they don't even clean the vats, man. They dump it out and then they dump the new stuff in there without cleaning it.

There's residue in there, and then also the level of drug testing, how high these things can sense anything. Right. Even if there's a tiny bit, they'll find it. Right. With John Jones, right, it was picograms. We got introduced to the term piccograms. Pico, like a grain of salt in a swimming pool they can find. They say, yeah.

So the testing is legit. And I'm glad, you know, we're fighting. We're kneeing each other in the face. If we were running track or something, I would... Exactly. But we're fighting. You can get seriously injured, man. Exactly.

I've always been against doping. But I'm retired now, Joe. I'm retired now. Now you can get through. Yeah, I love what you guys get... Well, cowboy got real jacked, too, afterwards. But then he talked about coming back, and then he got off of everything. That's the thing, though.

Like, always back in the day, all the TRT guys, like, if you change your body's natural production of testosterone with exogenous testosterone, you have to be on it for the rest of your life. Well, You don't have to because there's things called HCG and HCG and Clomaphene can restart your body's production of testosterone. Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Because I know your testicles will stop producing. Exactly.

You introduce foreign testosterone, right? Well, for a period of time, especially when you're a young man, you can restart it. But, you know, my production, I've been on TRT since I was like late 30s. Like, it's not coming back. Yeah, yeah. I'm shooting blank. So, p'paw. But you're good

But two of my daughters were born while I was on TRT So it does work I just had a limited amount I had soldiers just one fucking Special ops guy at the front of the line Only one was marching But he got through Black ops

Yeah so if you think about Like all of the time Where people were allowed to dope It is a giant percentage Of the history of MMA Like pride The further you go back for sure For sure

For sure Pride It was juicy is juice. Yeah. Like, Ensign Inouye, when he was on the podcast, told me that in the contract that said in all capital letters,

we do not test for steroids. We aren't looking. I've heard other people say that as well. We aren't looking. Thumbs up, green light, let's go. Shoot up the juice. Come fight. We'll pay you cash.

Get out of here. They wanted you to juice. They wanted you to fight better. Which is like, it becomes a spectacle, but, man, people can get seriously injured. You can, especially. But then also, the thing is, like, does it make you more durable?

I think it does. Can it prevent you? I think it does, man. Because just one that right off the top of my head, when Bigfoot Silva was TRT or whatever he was on, he was so durable. So durable. Him and Mark Hunt had those crazy fights. But when he got off, he started getting knocked out.

Right. You know? But there's also the switch. There's something that happens when you've had a certain amount of concussions where that's a wrap. Another guy that comes to mind. Remember Eric Silva? Yeah.

Walterweight was huge. Dude, whenever they started doing the USADA stuff, he was getting knocked out and just wasn't. himself. He didn't look the same. He melted. I wonder what the medical reason for that is, but I think it has something to do with confidence and, like, self-belief with the testosterone. They just, I think that's a big part of it. I really do. It's definitely a part of it, but also there's a part of it, your vitality. You're just more durable. I mean, when you're jacked up on testosterone, you're just more fucking durable. Yeah. Everything about you is more door. Alistair's a great example of that. Like animal mode, man. Yeah, man. Dude, I think Alistair Overeem when he was Uber-eim,

I think that is the best argument for TRT ever. Looked like a superhero. Bro, when he was in K-1 and he was shelling up, how are you getting through that? How are you getting through that show? Remember how small he was, though, back in K-1? He was like a 205 or 185? Well, no, and pride. Pride.

Pride when he was fighting at light heavy when Chuck knocked him out. Liddell knocked him out when he was a legit light heavyweight, and he was skinny. Young and skinny. He just decided, time to get big. Yeah, look at him back then when he fought Shogun. Still pretty Jack, though. Oh, yeah, man. He was shredded.

He was shredded. He was shredded, but he was a shredded light heavyweight. You know, I think he's a vegan now. That's him. Look at that. Come on, son. Come on, son. That's rib-eyes.

That ain't vegan right there. Go back to that other one. That's what I'm talking about. I mean, that's what a UFC heavyweight champion supposed to look like. Hell yeah. Come on, I mean, also. Put that on the White House card. Not just that, but highly skilled.

For sure. He wasn't just jacked. He was highly. I mean, there's like K-1. Grand Prix champion. I mean, that dude was the cream of the crop at kickboxing. He was the cream of the crop in MMA. And he even won the Abu Dhabi European trials as a pure grappler.

Yeah, people don't know that about Alistair. His grappling is high level. Very, he had one of the best guillotine in the game. Like Alster in his prime, when he went over and he fought Brett Cooper over in, was it Burt Cooper? No, who do you fucking fight in Strike Force? Brett Rogers. Brett Rogers, that's right, sorry. I'm thinking of the heavyweight boxer,

Burke Cooper. Bert Cooper. Who fought, he had some crazy wars with Evander, Evander Holyfield. I think Evander's down in South Florida, too, now. I don't remember a Cooper. He was a really, he was a tank. He was a tank.

He was a little super jack guy. But Brett Rogers, when he fought Alster, Alster immediately hit him with a low kick, and you can tell he was like, like, what is this? Yeah. Like, it was a different kind of low kick because you're dealing with the tree trunks

of Alster with perfect technique. And that guy was as good a kickboxer as has ever entered into MMA. And when he was saucy, he was a problem. Yeah. He was a real fucking problem. Speaking of kickboxers from that era

coming to M.M.A., dude, didn't Gokan Saki come over? Oh, yeah. I thought he was going to do, you know, so much better. But he was older. He was older. and he was at a time where it's like, you know, he had had so many fights in K-1. You know, he had so many wars.

And he fought Khalil. You know, Khalil's fast as fuck. And, I mean, good kickboxing. Real good kickboxing. Tie style. Kalear cracked him in the first round and knocked him out. Yeah. Yeah.

Which was a big fight for Khalil because, you know, Go-Kahn was the Turkish Tyson was coming over here. You know, it was one of those guys like Merkel Krocop was like an elite kickback. boxer who's entering into MMA and everybody always gets excited about that. Obviously, Pereira is the best example of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he was a guy I knew. I told everybody, I was like, that guy's going to be a nightmare for everybody because

there's something about him, man. I don't know what the hell is going on with his bone structure, his DNA, and his intelligence. Like, he figures shit out that other people didn't, like, the way he threw that low kick, like the way he throws that calf kick with zero tally, no turning of the hips. Like he fucks up guys' calves better than anybody on the planet We had like a huge rush of the calf kick I saw it for like a year and a half, two years Everybody was doing it

Now it's kind of fading away I've noticed that It is but not with him It's not with elite guys Guys that are really good at it It does so much damage man so quickly It's crazy And it's so much it's less commitment So you're not giving you don't have to turn your hips over as much

So wrestlers aren't grabbing singles as easy Well I remember your fight with Jim Miller It's just like oh dude tore me up Yeah that was that was one of the first examples of calf kicks being really fucking dangerous. And I've never felt it before. And I'm a South Paul, so they'd land good calf kicks. You'd have to fight another South Paul, right?

And that doesn't happen too often, especially with one who's throwing those. So I didn't know what kind of black magic he was doing, bro. I was like, I got a flat tire. What is going on? What is this? I know. Isn't it crazy that it took that long for people to figure that out? Ben Henderson was a guy doing it early.

But it wasn't that effective for some reason. Yeah. He was doing it, but it wasn't having the devastating. I'm trying to think of who's the first guy to really... Edson Barbosa would do it every now and then. Mm-hmm. Trying to think of somebody who really brought it over. Bro, it's made its way into kickboxing now.

It's... Because they were saying, like, the Muay Thai guys are not susceptible to calf kicks, and everybody was saying that. I was like, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. They are light on their front foot, so that front foot is... They are, but there's times where they have to plant, like when they're throwing a right kick. There's a guy named Yuki-Yoza.

Yuki-Josa, who fights for one. He's a Kikishin guy, and he's... fucking everybody up with calf kicks. Yeah. He fights like high guard, tight inside, and again, no pivot of the hips. He's essentially throwing his calf kick almost like he's kicking a soccer ball straight up the middle. That's the way I like to do it as well. Just clip the top of the calf.

There's no commitment. You don't have to pivot your hips or plant to turn. You can just snap it out like a jab. Yeah. Well, a great example of the changing of technique was you in that Conner fight. Yeah, calf over and over and over. And it was also Southpaw versus Southpaw. Same thing.

You just destroyed that calf. And you could tell he didn't know what to do. Because as good as he was and as many fights as he had, two division world champion, he hadn't been calf kicked. Right. Which is a crazy transition. When you see like the history of the sport, that is one of the clear differentiation, the differentiation. That's another word that's fake. That's the clear line in the sand where the,

the techniques changed. Yeah, and it's one of those things, like, before it happened to me, I saw it and I was like, ah, it might be uncomfortable, but until it happens, then you have a different respect for it. So Connor probably learned a lot that fight, man. Oh, for sure. This is for real. Calfcakes are for real.

What's fucked that it's just one shot. That's what's crazy about it. Because a thigh kick, like, you can get a hard thigh kick and your leg goes dead for a couple seconds, but it comes back. Yeah, calves don't really come back that quick. They explained it to me at the hospital after the Jim Miller thing. Apparently your calf doesn't have the chambers for the fluid to drain. So that's why it gets compartment.

Oh, compartment. That's why it's so painful because you can't like go out through your, the swelling can't go out through your whole leg. So it sits in one pocket and fills up and it's just uncomfortable. It can stop nerves. I'm not an astronaut. I don't need an astronaut. Audiences have spoken.

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Only in Peters Friday. Did you ever see what happened to Austin Hubbard? Dude, that's what they wanted to do. After the Jamila fight, they wanted to cut me at the... He was like, no way. No way. Filet you to release the pressure. Well, another guy, Uriah Faber, when he fought Joseo.

blew up like a balloon. Yeah. Apparently, if it gets that bad compartment syndrome and the swelling is bad enough for long enough, you can lose function of your ankle and foot. Yeah. Which is crazy, right? Right, right. Well, Uriah was one of the first guys to implement

going into what can't I think of it? The fucking chamber, oxygen chamber. Hyperbaric. Hyperbaric. What's wrong with me today? I'm making up. Fake words. Can't come up things that I know, but he was using the hyperbaric, like, exclusively to recover from that and documenting it. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. A lot of good brain benefits for

hyperbaric. I don't have one. I've done it before, but it's never been like a routine thing. Well, you have to have access to it. And also the tint, the tints, the zip-up tents at home? Not a strong. Yeah. You need a solid, you know, you need like one of those propane tank ones, those big thick, walled ones. The glass, like it's really good high pressure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, you know, you got to be careful in those things. You can't know sparks. Yeah, dude, I saw a story that a kid was in one and you saw that?

That was a couple of years. Horrible. Yeah. Horrible story. Yeah. But Hyperbaric is awesome for recovery. It's also, it lengthens, there's a protocol that developed, one of the universities in Israel developed it,

where you do 60 sessions over 90 days, and it lengthens your telomeres that's commensate with, I think it's like a 20-year different. in your biological age. Wow. It's nuts. It's super effective. Like when you get a lot of oxygen

into your system like that, it just helps everything recover. For sure. Like if you have an aura ring or a whoop strap and you go into one of those things, it shows you. It's like, oh, you have an amazing recovery day. Yeah, man, the metrics we can track now

with all the wearable devices. It's pretty awesome, dude. Well, it gets you to understand. I think you can get a little addicted to those things. For sure. So when I was competing, I stopped using them. because every day wasn't ready. Need to rest.

Red, red, red, red, every day. So when I retired, I got back to it. Now I'm using them. But, like, when you're training for a fight, you can't... Isn't that interesting? I'm not taking two days off. I need a train. And the fight's coming up.

Like, if I'm in the red zone, I still need to train. I know. Isn't that interesting? Like, there's a wearable device would tell you you're not supposed to train, but yet you know in order to reach MMA peak physical condition, you have to push when you're not ready

so that your body's forced to recover quicker. I know this guy's, training. That's why I got rid of it. During camp, I don't use it. Didn't use it. Well, it's weird because, like, what if you listen to it? Like, some people say, like, Terrence Crawford was talking about, like, there's times where he wanted to push where his coaches told him not to, and then he realized they were right. Yeah, maturing through fighting men, pulling back, got easier as I got older. When I was a younger fighter, I didn't want to take any time off. I needed to be as many reps, as much time on the mats as

possible. But as I got to like mid-30s, 36, I was like, you know, this is, I got to take days off. Complete days, complete days. Not just an easy day or a technique day. I just need to be out of the gym. Just relax. Yeah, reset my mind to where I want to be there. Just hard for fighters because you operate on momentum of the conditioning and a training, the discipline. It's like you're in there. And then to have a day where you're not, you feel like you're slipping backwards. Right. And you show up to fight week with that momentum. Like, I did everything I could. I bust mass every day. Like you just gives you so much energy and so much confidence going into fight week. You've turned over every stone.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, the worst thing, though, is seeing a fighter fight flat because you know they're overtrained. And the one thing that I always point to is when Tim Kennedy fought Kelvin Gasolam, and he had gone through two solid camps in a row. So he went through one camp, peaked, got ready for the fight, and then the fight got canceled, and then went right back into camp to train for Gastilum and didn't give himself the job. chance to recover. And, you know, it's too tough. Too tough, too disciplined, and his body broke down.

You're redlining that engine over and over and over. I mean, we just saw it with Marab, I think. You know, not that taking anything away from Yon, but, you know, you stay that busy. Those kind of fights, those training camps, I mean, it's hard to do. That's what makes things like John Jones could be so impressive to me, man, to get on top and stay on top that long, you know. Yeah. I know. It's nuts. There's so few guys have been able to do that. Especially in M.A. Too many variables. Too many ways to slip on a banana pill, get caught at something, you know. I know. I kind of love that Khabib went out on top. And never came back. Respect. That's awesome. And they offered him a lot of fucking money to come back. He's like, nope. Yeah. Nope.

Good for him, man. Yeah. Good for him. Yeah. That's the way to do it. And then you go out all your faculties. Everything's fine. Undefeated. Go down a legend. Right. Yeah. Like, I think Floyd should have did it, you know, like that. Now he's fucking fighting Mike Tyson, me, come on, man. I know. There was some rumors around that Floyd was going to have a rematch with Connor, which is crazy. But I think Connor would probably do it, especially if there weren't any drug testing involved. I wonder if he's going to come back at, for sure.

But man, to heal from an injury like he had, you probably need a bunch of stuff to, I don't know the ends and outs of that, but you probably need some help to heal. He definitely needed some help to heal. The problem is once you get used to that help, and you enjoy it. Yeah, I'm getting used to that. to the help. I know. That's what I thought about Cowboy when he got jacked

and then he was like he's going to, and he slimmed back down again. He said he was going to fight again, but I think he might have abandoned that. I got hooked up with Brigham and Ways to Well. They did all my blood when I retired and got me.

I turned down no testosterone for me, so I'm not on any testosterone. I just don't want to mess up my natural production because mine wasn't high, but it wasn't low. I'm just scared to mess with it, you know? Yeah, you don't need it. I'm 37.

I can do a lot for you. Yeah, I'm on a bunch of peptides. Yeah, peptides are the way to go. And I feel great. Honestly, I wish I could have been on this shit when I was fighting, man. I know. You know, especially like the growth hormone releasing stuff. Like Tessimoralin.

Exactly. I could have pushed hard every day, man. As I got older, it got harder, man. I know. And all it does is help your body recover. It's not like it gives you some sort of a performance enhancing boost. I know it definitely helps with like fat mobilization and stuff like that. but just being able to push hard every day

is huge in fighting man. But just BPC 157, which offers no performance enhancing, but would help you heal soft tissue injuries. Because you're getting injured. You're just getting small injuries every day training. Every time you get leg kicked,

every time you get punched in the stomach. Arm barred, shoulder-locking. Everything. Everything. Your joints are always messed up. Always. Always. And if you wanted fighters to perform better, something that would allow them to heal better

is only good. And it's not going to make you run faster. It's not going to make you jump higher. It's not going to make you an Uber-Ream. We're not talking about that. And I'm not even sure if that's banned. I haven't checked. It is.

BBC 157's banned. Wow. Wow. Yeah. I mean, it's unfortunate. Yeah, creatine protein powders. That's the same stuff. You just recover better.

Well, creatine's not banned. Creatine's not banned. Thank God. But creatine in the 1990s, we thought of the same way of steroids. Right. Yeah, yeah. I remember. People thought like creatine's cheating.

Oh, my God. You're taking creatine. They, they, They literally put it in the same category of start. And then they realized, oh, it's actually a part of food. It's great for your brain. It's actually good for you. Great for everything.

Yeah. I just talked my wife into starting creatine. Women needed more than men I was reading. Right. You know? So my wife's just starting. Yeah. I think the key is to, like, make sure you're hydrated too,

and make sure you're not taking too much of it and make sure you get your blood checked. And so you're not putting a lot of pressure on your kidneys. Yeah. But, like, dehydration and kidneys. That, like, that is one of the big things that happens to a lot of fighters that cut a lot of weight, they start getting kidney stones. I mean, Jose Aldo dealt with that.

DC famously got pulled out of the Olympics. Oh, yeah, yeah, because he was having kidney failure. Yeah. Yeah. Your kidneys, man, they don't like you being drained out like that. I've had a few weight cuts where I felt pain in my back. And I think that's kidneys. 100%, man.

Kidney shots. Didn't happen often, but I've definitely had it. Tightness. It feels kind of like cramping in a weird place you never had before in your back. That's spooky. You're drying out your organs. and then fighting for your life, 24 hours.

It was nice, though, when I started making it to the top of the cards, co-main event, main event, because then you have like 30-something hours to rehydrate. If you're fighting early prelims in Vegas, two or three in the afternoon, you know, it's not too long, especially back in the day when weigh-ins were at 5 or 6 p.m. There wasn't a morning in ceremonial.

The real way-ins were at 5, and you were going to fight at 2 the next day. Yeah, those were nuts. That was crazy. Yeah, it was crazy when guys would, like, shuffle to the scale. for the real way in. You'd see them all like a skeleton. And you're facing off with your opponent

trying to be tough. Like, both dying? Well, I always remember Jose Aldo versus Connor. Connor looked like he was one of the walking dead. Yeah. He looked like a zombie. He was so skinny. His face bones.

Yeah. See, you can find that. And he was also crazy. Like, like flexing. He's always crazy. Hyped up with no, like, no body fat, no water. just completely dehydrated. Like look at that.

Look at that. The eyes sunken in. That is nuts. That guy weighed 145 and he probably laid 170 or at least 165 when he got into the actual octagon that day. If he does come back, I wonder what he's going to come back at,

lightweight or well-term. Well, the real key is if. If. I mean, he's had a lot of opportunities and I don't know. I thought the Chandler fight was a lay-up for him. That's the fight. A great match-up for him.

Great fight technically. It's a great fight stylistically. It's a great fight age-wise. Chandler's got to be, what, 39 now? He's up there, 38 or 39, yeah. I mean, and then there's the hype of the ultimate fighter. True, but it's just a layup for Connor. Chandler's hitable, covers distance, not that technically, you know, huge movements.

You jump in, you get carried out. Connor's a sniper, man. I just think that's a great matchup for him. It's also a great matchup for Chandler because he doesn't get tired. And he gets that, you know, because he sat out for two years. Wait, no, Connor. He's also like, remember him with Olivera? Even in the fucking third round, that dude is carrying Oliver up and throwing him to the air and body slamming him all he's on his back.

Yeah. Like, the dudes has, he has incredible durance and incredible discipline. He's always fit. Yeah. And that's been Conner's Achilles' heels. Connor, he's so explosive and so fast that if you're sprinting in that first round, guaranteed you're not going to have that same kind of energy in the fifth round. Yeah. But some guys are just designed like that.

You saw Taryn Woodley's a guy who has huge explosion, but they don't necessarily keep that for 25 minutes. But on the opposite side of that, you got a guy like Nate Diaz, who will keep that same pace from round one to five. Round 30. Yeah. That dude could, if every fight was 30.

Right. Out of a cannon, you know, and then slow down. Just the way muscles and fibers are connected. I don't know what does that to a human. Well, the only guys that figured out how to fight with all that bulk and just is like Yuel Romero. He fought very smart. It was just like calm.

Still fighting. Still fighting. Dude, still fighting. Jacked. Jacked. Jacked. Jacked. Yeah.

48 years old, 49 years old with abs. Looking like a fucking super athlete. I think he's doing bare knuckle maybe. Yeah, he did bare knuckle. He did dirty boxing. There's a fight where he had in dirty boxing where he's touching the dude up. And then out of nowhere, he just leaps up into the air. does like a vertical. He's like

this five foot vertical lands on his feet and just starts putting it on a dude. He's like, I'm tired of this. Let me show you what I can really do. I've had fun. I've had fun. He's a crazy, he's been on the mats a bunch of American top team as well and just a freak athlete man. Freak. He's the freak of all freaks. Just a freak athlete. Yeah. I mean, he came out of that Cuban program. They build them different

over there. Yeah, they build them with science. Yeah. Yeah. But he also figured out how to pace himself. You know, he figured out how to to explode out of nowhere, but not explode the entire time. Like, he had this casual almost, he would lull you into a false sense of security and then just pounce on you. Right.

Like that knee he hit with Wydenman with? Yes. A perfect example. Perfect example. Because you get used to this kind of pace and then you just launch. You get into the rhythm and then you just break it up. But also he didn't fight, like, obviously he's a wrestler. He didn't wrestle too, too hard and really gassed himself out.

He fought smart to do what he's good at. He rarely used his wrestling in M.MA, which is so crazy. Yeah. It's really crazy if you think about how good of a wrestler he was. Right. Because he was one of the best wrestlers to ever compete in M.M.A. I mean, that dude was elite as a wrestler. And in M.A, he's just starching people.

Yeah. When Luke Rockhold and you starched Luke, like, that was crazy. Luke's another guy still fighting, I think. I think he might be done now. You know, when he got knocked out by Darren Till in the boxing, I think that might be it. I think that might be it. And Darren Till has got a resurgence, man.

As a boxer, he looks fucking fantastic. I saw the highlights of that, but I haven't seen the whole lot. Bro, he looks real good. He looks real good. He's always been a good striker. Very good striker. And his Achilles' heel has been his knees. You know, he's had some serious knee problems and it really impeded him from being able to train hard.

He wasn't the best grappler in the world. And so that was always his problem. But as a striker, I mean, that guy was, like, I was. like very, very good. And you're seeing him now in boxing. Like, he's making a real run. I think it's very interesting because if you watch him box Rockhold

and you realize like Rockholds are really good striker, but against Darren Till, he looked like he had no business in there. That's something I would like to do, man, box. Still? I always wanted to have a couple before I've, you know, but I'm still under contract. Even though I'm retired, I still have a contract with the UFC.

Do you think the UFC would let you out? Or they have Zoufa boxing now? So they don't, trust me, I already pitched it to him. Did you? Me and Nate Diaz, Zufel boxing, let's go. Let's go. 170, whatever, 168, Super Middleweight, let's do it.

They don't want any crossover. What? I think Zufa wants to be taken as a serious... Does they hate money? They must hate money. Do they hate money? They hate money. Why do they hate money?

I don't know. They want to be taken by the boxing world serious. And I think if you open that door of an MMA guy fighting under Zufel boxing, every guy on the roster, every girl in the roster is going to want to do the same. It just becomes a mess, I think. I don't know about that. I don't think it's a mess.

I think there are some really fun MMA boxing matchups you can make. Fuck. Yes. Fuck, yes. Especially when guys get older and, you know, you don't want to go through the training camp with wrestling and leg kicks and all that shit. That's the thing. Like, thinking about a boxing training camp, dude, with no grappling, no wrestling, just run condition and box. It would be smooth sailing, dude. I love it.

Isn't it funny? I'm on the beach. As tough as boxing is, like, for you, like, oh, this is going to be so nice. I only have the box. That's great. Yeah. Honestly, man, in training camp, those are my best. favorite days striking

sparring is my favorite days like the wrestling class is two hour macko on Monday it's like brutal bro well it'll be great for you because you've always had great hands like for you that's a perfect well I started I started boxing before mixed martial arts

that would be a perfect way for you to get some other fights in I don't understand Zufa yeah I would just love to lay some up and box professionally once I know they want to like redo boxing and I know they want to like And I think there's probably some real merit there.

Obviously what the Saudis have done with Riyadh season has been amazing, you know, making matchups that no one can make. I'm a big Conner Ben fan too, man. I'm excited to see him fight in Zufa. And the guy's fighting is from New Orleans. Like, I know the guy. Like, you know, it's fun. It is exciting.

And it will definitely, I think they will elevate boxing. And Dana is throwing all of his cards into that. So I'm sure it's going to work. Yeah, I'm glad we're seeing more boxing, Zufo boxing and less power slap on my feed whenever I go to online stuff, you know. Yeah, I'm not a big fan. I've never been the one, but man, it's just... Not my jam.

Yeah. When I fought my retirement in New Orleans, Mike Brown went to the power slap they had there, and he said it was awesome in person. Oh, sure. It's awesome to watch someone get slapped, but, like, I'm not interested. I watch it on my fucking phone every now and then.

I mean, the highlights are good enough. You see the knockouts and the crazy stuff, but... It's great TikTok content. For sure. You know, it's... someone gets slapped and they go forward and their head hits the desk and they fall backwards. But it's like it's a concussion. And you can't, there's no defense.

There's no, like, you can't flinch or you get, it's penalty if you do it. That's crazy. That don't make any sense to me. I don't, I don't get it. But I think they've missed out on the opportunity to have a Muay Thai league. That's what I think. America just doesn't buy into it that big. I don't think that's true.

No? No. No. I just think they haven't been served. Well, I mean, one is doing it on Amazon and, you know, But it's like, who's watching Amazon? That's the problem. You have a show on Amazon?

I know guys who've released comedy specials on Amazon. Like, good luck finding it. Nobody cares. That's just the reality of this platform. I mean, look, Amazon is a phenomenal platform for buying stuff. I love it for buying things. I use it all the time. Every week.

It's great for buying books, audio books. It's great for buying products. But for watching content, it's kind of a mess. They had a couple big shows, like The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and the Terminalist. Those are great shows And those brought a lot of people over there But I mean, you know how big the terminalist would have been If it was on Netflix?

As big as it was on Amazon More people watch Netflix Than are ever going to watch anything on Amazon That's why what Jake's doing with the Netflix And bringing boxing MMA8 there Like it's big man It's big. So many people are going to be watching this

100%. But I think that if one was somewhere else I think it would have been There you go. On the way here today. What? Yeah, they got announced this morning. An MMA fight?

Yeah, it's the third fight on that card now. That's the Rousy card, yeah. Oh, wow. Interesting. That's very interesting. That's very interesting. That's a good fight. Dude, you said a lot of people don't go to Amazon to watch TV.

I just went down a rabbit hole for weeks because I have a newborn at home. So I did the night shift, and I ran out of shit to watch on Netflix and on Hulu. How do you run out of shit to watch on Netflix? Dude, staying up until 4 a.m. every night with a baby boy is like hours of documentaries hours and stuff I switched over to Amazon and it was like a whole new world man well there's a lot on there it's just they don't have the same viewers like our podcast is on Amazon the numbers that we get from Amazon compared to everywhere else is so small yeah it's just the reality of the way they've sort

of marketed it and Amazon Prime video just doesn't have the audience that everything else does right and it's such a big platform you think it would be crossover from I think it's a mistake on their part because the the product side is so big And like Amazon for buying stuff is so big that it's almost like an afterthought and they have video money in it, but not the same sort of focus. Also the interface when I've gone to it is a little weird. It's hard to find things. It's not as simple like the interface on Netflix is like the algorithm's great. It's really good at recommending you things. It knows what you like. It shows you things. It's easy to find things. For sure. Amazon's like a little tricky. You go there and you're like, what?

But see, the one-fc thing faces the same problem the PFL has. Like, look, PFL is on ESPN Plus. You would imagine PFL would get the same sort of audience that the UFC got, but it doesn't. No, of course not. Because the UFC brand is like NFL. The machine. It's just, yeah, they own that space. But the fights on one-fc are fucking amazing.

Like, especially the moitai fights With the small gloves? Oh, my God, man. And I was trying to pitch this to Dana. So I started sending Dana. He goes, send me some. So I started sending him all these, like, high-level moitai fights

and high-level kickboxing fights. And they're fucking phenomenal. Look, he didn't like the Charles Olivera, this, excuse me, this Max Holloway-Charlo-A-T charles-Olavera fight. He didn't like it. Like the BMF fight, The fight wasn't that good.

I was like, I thought it was a great fight. It was impressive if you were a fan of technique and a fan of how hard it is to do that to somebody like Max. Like, super impressive. And I was a fan of Max's defense. I mean, Oliver was on his back in the first round. A lot of people would have got finished there. First minute and a half, I think, you know, dry.

Dry, right. I got finished there. Yeah, I mean, I think Olivera is one of the greatest submission artists had ever competed in the sport. Yeah. Not the best. I mean, numbers prove it. Yeah.

And against, elite guys like you and like Justin and like he's fucking good. And then Gamrod, dude, Gamrod is, I train with him for years. He's a wrestler, but his grappling is incredible, man. He got tied up in knots with Olivera. Yeah. Oliver is a nightmare. I knew it could happen, but I didn't think it would be that. I was stunned too. I was like, God, he's good. He's so good on the ground. So like props to Max for surviving. But if data didn't like it, so I started sending him, there's, for the, I mean, when you have the title, the BMF, like, you want to see some violence. understand, but it's still just a fight.

You can't fight outside of your comfort zone. Just because of BMF belts on the line. You can't go out swinging for the fences, but... I get it. I get what you're saying. But, I mean, on the feet, I think Olivera was winning on the feet, too. Dude, he hurt Max in the first. I think he heard him in the fifth.

Well, he definitely heard him in the fifth when they did the point down the ground thing. And then he cracked him and rocked him. Oliver's fucking good, man. He is, man. He's so good. He's just known we put the label on the grappler because he's finished so many guys and so many bonuses, but he can strike, man. He's good everywhere.

Like with the Chandler fight. He almost gets finished in the first round, comes back and hits it with a clean left hook in the second. Yeah. He's fucking good, man. Yeah, knocked him out. Even when I fought him, like, he did a good job of picking where the fight happened. He wouldn't fight me in boxing range. It was either all the way in clinch or out where he was keeping my body, staying long.

Kicking range or clinching range is kind of where he fought me. The times I did have success was in the boxing range, but he didn't let that happen. Well, just shows you how fucking good Ilya Duporia is. Fuck. God damn that dude. Dude, I love Justin. I love, I'm a fan. I don't like this matchup for him.

Well, you know what? I mean, Justin knows what he's getting into, and it's hard to count that dude out. He's such an animal. Yeah, he can land the shot. And it's on the White House. Who knows? Who knows what's going to happen?

But that dude has the touch of death. He has the touch of death. And he's not a big guy. I've never seen him in person, but I was talking to somebody recently, and they said, no, he's five, seven, you know? He's small, man. He's not big.

I mean, there's a photo of me standing next to him when we did the podcast. We're standing next to him. He's my friend. much smaller than me. And bro, he puts people into the shadow realm. Yeah. It's just technique and confidence.

His confidence is crazy. He had a victory party for the Oliva fight the night before. Drinking wine. I saw that. I don't think he was drinking wine. No. I think he was drinking water the night before, but he has drank wine in weigh-ins. Yeah.

When he's getting ready to weigh in or the weight cut. He only did that for two camps, he told me, though. He said, this too much. I was just like fucking hung over the next day. Like, what am I doing? Right, and you're about to get your brain beat up, you're dehydrating, your drink, come on. Well, I think he's dehydrating himself, and he said the wine actually helps you get dehydrated. Yeah, alcohol definitely does.

Yeah, which is, but it's, nobody does that. Nobody drinks wine for the weigh-ins. That's crazy. No, bro. And, like, I'm so, I'm not drinking anything. I'm so depleted by that time, you know. I know, and he's getting hammered. Lucky.

And winning world championships. Well, it was only two fights he did that for, so it became, like, something where people were pretending he does it every way in. He's got all these young fighters out there in the world. drinking on one day. I'm going to be like the champ, man. Yeah, but he's, he's crazy talented. For sure. For sure.

In a weird way. Whatever it is, he has it. He has it. He's got it in his mind. He's got it in his technique. His grappling's fun. I watched a video of him grappling with Marab. And he was all over Marab.

And that's crazy. That's what they say. His grappling is just as good, if not better than his stand-up. That's where he started. I've never seen it as a grapple. I've never seen him grapple, though. Well, he finished, um, Bryce Mitchell on the ground,

and he's finished a few people on the ground. He does clearly have phenomenal submission ability. What is he showing me here? What is this? He says he's done it for a long time. You can see his face has already sucked in a little bit. He said that when he was on the podcast, though, that he only did it twice.

That's hilarious. He's all tipsy and drunk. Look, I tell this to young fight. There's no right, I mean, obviously don't smoke crack before a fight. There's no right or wrong way. Everybody's different. Whatever makes you feel comfortable to perform and compete. Like, everybody's different.

If there was a cookie cutter, perfect way to work, everybody would do it. Well, look at Carlos Protoz. Yeah, exactly. Smoking cigars. Smoking cigarettes, like the day of the fight, he's sitting there smoking Marlboro Reds. Darts. Who was the boxer? Fucking everybody up.

Back in the day. Oh, yeah, Majorga. Majorga. Majorga. Yes, he would smoke cigarettes. Yeah, drinking. Fucking, Carlos, drinking whiskey, smoking. Sixs.

He's like, I'm always going to party and always going to fuck people up. Respect. Yeah. I mean, he's going to fight. Is he fighting Jack Della Madalena? Is that the fight? I'm not sure. I believe that's the fight in Perth.

That is a very good fight. Yeah. A tough one for Jack to come back to, man. I was in, I was in a MSG when Islam took the belt from him. Dude, complete domination. Well, that's another guy. Complete domination. How good is that guy?

And Ilya was talking about fighting him, too. You know, the size difference would be so big. So big. Islam is huge. He's huge. He's huge. He's too big for 55 and then you see him at 170. Like, how did you ever make 55?

Right. Because he's so dominant at 170. Yeah, Hunter from the UFC, I was in his office not too long ago and they keep record of all the weights fight night. They don't release them all, but they keep it. And we were talking about the Islam fight when I fought Islam. And he was telling me his weight. I was like, that's, it's sick.

199 or something, I think. The day of the fight? I think so, yeah. That's great. 190, 199, something around there. That's crazy. I was 176. That's great.

But it looks like it in the cage. Like whenever I interview him. I looked across under those spotlights and they had veins and his shoulders and shit. I'm like, fuck, this guy is huge. The ones where I'm like, how? Gregory Rodriguez is the one where I'm like, how? Yeah. How?

How are you 185? How? You're 6'3. You're built like a Greek god. How? How do you ever weigh 185? How is that even possible? Whenever I interview him, I'm like, how?

Right. Because I'm standing next to you, and I'm like, that doesn't make any sense. Like, you're not an 185-pound guy. You're huge. Like in his prime when Luke Rocco was a champion? He's huge, man. Huge. Huge.

185? Yeah. Yo-O. Romero is the best example. Like, how? How are you 185? Build like an anvil, dude. Solid all the way through. When he came in to do the podcast and Joey Diaz translated for him, he was like $2.30.

Yeah. Just like his neck starts at the top of his head. Just a tank. And shred it always. Shred it always. No jiggle. Dude, shred it always. Vains in his abs. Like, crazy.

Yeah, and he was talking about the Cuban program. I'll never forget. It was talking about how they have the lower level guys only eat twice a day. But the top level guys eat three times a day. And so everybody is competing literally for food. Crazy you say that in Angola prison in Louisiana, there's a boxing league. if you're on the boxing league and get accepted into it,

you get more meals and stuff. So the same thing, these prisoners are trying their best to stay on this boxing league. You get more meals, more time, more free time. Wow. They actually fight other prisons, man.

Whoa. I was thinking this would be a great documentary to come out with. That would be a great documentary. And it's CCTV to the other prisons so other prisons can watch in their cells. Whoa. They bus them to Angola.

Other prisons in Louisiana, they box. They put out a schedule every year. If you ever want to go to one, It's invite only, but I'd rather watch at home. It's possible. It feels illegal, dude. It feels illegal. Well, it might not be legal in other states.

Yeah, it might not be legal in Louisiana. I might be getting in trouble for saying this. Has anybody any good? Hell yeah. I think Bernard Hopkins came out of jail? I mean, the guy, obviously, Tyson beat him, but the Black Rhino was an Angola boxing prisoner who got out or pardoned to fight Mike Tyson. Really? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Wow. Wow. That's crazy. I did not know that. So did they have a program where they have coaches and... They have to. Do they have equipment and everything? Yeah. Wow. And different, according to the schedule, they'll bus them to the other prisons to fight and it's played through all the prisons in Louisiana.

Man, you find a highly skilled guy who's in that program. And they let them go. The refs, they're legitimate refs, but they let the fights go, man. What kind of nutrition are they getting, though? They're getting prison food? Yeah. Or they get any better food? No, prison food, but they get more meals.

They get to eat extra. Still terrible food, right? Yeah. Angola's a crazy prison, man. Grow all the food there, make all the clothes there. They grow their food there? Yeah. Self-sustaining.

Self-sustaining. I'm sure they ship a bunch of stuff in, but they do have crops. And it's such a big operation that the guards and the staff live on the prison grounds. There's an elementary school. Really? Yeah, there's the worker, the guards, kids and stuff go to. to school on the grounds. It's wild, man.

Oh, that can't be good. It's wild. Every October they have the rodeo there. Article about that boxing association from 2011. Wow. Some photos and an interview with some people, I think, that were part of it. Well, you want to focus. You know, women weakened legs?

Ain't no women in there, dog. Hell no. That's crazy. Yeah, serious business, man. I did not know that. That's nuts, man. Yeah, how come no one's done a documentary in this? Or have they?

I know. Well, Bhop was a prison boxer in Philly, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, this would be a great documentary, man. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, Bernard learned, I mean, learn, like, real discipline in prison

and also learned that he never wants to go back. No. You know, which is as important. And I think Angola's, like, maximum security. So you don't go there if you have less than, like, 25 years or something. So these guys are in there for a long time, just trying to find things to do. And boxing, eating at. extra, getting more free time. Why wouldn't you do it?

Also, it just keeps you focused. You have something to concentrate on other than the fact that you're in jail. Yeah. Yeah. It was wild, bro. They set up a ring like in a cafeteria. I went there once to watch it. It was insane. It felt like I was doing something wrong. It felt like I was doing something wrong. Were the guys good? Fuck yeah. Some of them were good, man. Wow. Really good. Wow. Fuck. That's interesting. That's interesting. They pardon that guy. Who's the There's titles, too. They have the belts.

The Black Rhinel. Clifford, maybe? ATN. Yes, yes. That's right. So he was in prison boxing in Angola and he fought Tyson. Wow. No shit.

Yeah. I mean, why not, man? At least it gives them something to focus on. The idea is like, oh, you're going to make a more dangerous felon. Bro, they're dangerous. Yeah. They're in there for murder. What do you think?

What do you think? They're in there for armed robbery, murder. Like, let them fight. Right. Doing life. Right. Exactly. Like, also, we try to pretend that that's not going to improve the quality of their life and improve them as a human being.

Like, doing something difficult, even if it's difficult and violent like fighting will make you a better human being. For sure. Make you tougher, smarter, more disciplined, more focused. Also, release all the aggression there so you don't have aggression in, like, regular altercations nearly as much. Yeah. That's where I'm at right now. Like, leaving fighting in the rear view is like, what do I do with my life now? Are you still training all?

Dude, I've been traveling so much twice a week maybe. You know, if I'm home on Friday, I do open match jitsu. A couple kickboxing classes if I can make it. But I've just been traveling so much, man. Why have you been traveling so much? Sponsors, appearances, cornering buddies. Like, just saying yes to everything that I couldn't before, you know? Right, right.

I'm more busy now, I think because before I would shut everything down, like, I got to get ready for this fight. I have to focus on this. No, I can't do anything. Black out these dates. Now it's like. You're really good on that. desk, man. I enjoy, man. I really do enjoy it. You can tell. Yeah. I mean, I think that's one of the best things that the UFC does with former fighters is they give them this opportunity to do stuff on the

desk. I think that's huge. I hope they keep bringing me. I just signed a contract for the year. When it was ESPN, I was kind of doing like independence contractor stuff. They would ask me, I would say yes, but I'm on contract with UFC for a year. So hopefully they keep bringing me, man, all the people behind the scenes, just being around the event that I've, you know, I've fought at for so long, it just makes me feel good. Yeah. And I get nervous because it's live TV, you can't fuck up. You know, live TV's different.

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Amazing. Have it all with Blue on Disney Plus. Well, I would like to see they allow more of you guys to take the spots doing fights in commentary. Oh, like color? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, right now it's just Dominic Cruz, Paul Feldar, Michael Bisping, and D.C. That's essentially it.

Yeah. I mean, those are the only former. from the UFC that are doing it. And I really think there's room for more guys. Dan Hardy was great. Yeah, for sure. He was awesome at it. Yeah, he was.

I don't know what the fuck happened with him in the UFC. They had some sort of a squabble and he left, but he's fantastic over at PFL. He's still with them? Yeah, yeah, he does that. He's really good, man. He's a smart. Very good. Yeah, for sure.

And he's a great guy. I've known him forever. He was a 10th planet jujitsu guy. So I've known him since like, fuck, I must have met him 20 years ago. Wow. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah, before he was fighting GSP, before he's fighting any of those guys.

I knew him. Yeah. He would come over from England to train in America. He was such a knockout artist. We never really get to see him do Jiu-Jitsu. Yeah, no, he was good at Jiu-Soo, too, man. I mean, he trained hard. And he's just a very smart dude who knows a lot about the sport.

Yeah, it seems like when he's breaking down stuff, you can tell he's studied. He's also just like a very skillful commentator because he's very intelligent. And the way he describes things, it's exciting. I mean, I think he, they, I don't know what happened with them. And when I'm on the desk with those guys, I try my best to not break things down too much, like on the stats side. I try to make it seem like a conversation sit on the couch watching fights with your boys, where I talk about experiences that I've had and stuff because they explained it to me. Like, that's what fans want to see.

If they want to look up stats, they'll go look it up. They don't want to hear you talk about submission attempts and exact stats. They want to know your experience. Yeah. So, like, each rep, I think I'm getting better, you know, open it up and being more myself. I'm trying to do a good job, man. I really, really enjoy it.

I think stats are interesting sometimes, but what's really more important than that is like a technical breakdown of abilities. Right. Because stats, it's, you know, it's variable depending on who your fight. Like, you take Charles Alvara's stats and then you say his fight with Islam Machachev, and you say, okay, well, where's the stats? Like, it's like it's really dependent upon skill sets, who's your level of competition, who you're competing with.

You know what I mean? That was a quick submission, though. The stats are one submission to tip, one submission. Bro, he's got a crushing squeak. It's different, bro. It's different, bro. Yeah, he strangled me. And the way he did it, I think he,

Moikano filled in last minute to fight Islam and got caught with the same choke. It's kind of like a dars choke, but he locks it on his forearm. He doesn't go to the bicep. I know. And the squeeze is different. He's pulling to his chest.

It's not like a, angle squeeze, it's different. So the defense is different. When I got my legs out and tried to walk around, he hooked my leg, but the squeeze is completely different. Completely different. You know, you belly down and kind of get some space to breathe, you can't the way he does it.

Craig Jones broke it down. It's like a front choke, almost like a squeeze to your chest. It's not a angle that you use for a normal dars choke. I know. I was shocked the first time I saw him do it. I was like, maybe he just couldn't cinch up the bicep. And then I saw him do it a second time. I was like, no, this guy's just.

trying to do it that way. He grabs right here, right? Craig Jones did an awesome breakdown of it on YouTube where explains why it's effective and what's so good about it. And when he gets the grip blocked in, like it's complete immediate blood shutdown.

You know, usually you fill it slowly fading away. It was like right away. Wow, so that dude's got a back. Like the whole started... Drive-through movie on. The darkness started coming in like as soon as he got the grip. Really?

Yeah. He's so fucking strong, man. there's like something about those Dagestan guys, man. Like the discipline those motherfuckers have. Yeah. You know, there's Dagestan guys that are making their way into Muay Thai now too.

There's this dude Asadullah Imangazalev. I talk about him all the time, but I can't talk about him enough. He's one of those one FC guys that is fighting in Muay from Dagestan. And this fucking kid is

22 years old and he's knocking out like multiple time world Thai champion. I've never seen him. Bro. This dude is a freak. I mean, he's just putting people into the shadow realm, every fight. Dude, it's so wild to fight four ounce gloves

in more time. I know. But I mean, you could throw elbows and stuff and knees, so it... It's perfect. It's like four ounce gloves. I mean, look, you're throwing elbows, knees, everything else in the clinch. It allows you to grapple better. It just makes it so much more dangerous for the blocking, you know. You don't have the gloves covering all the space

around your ears. But this cat is special. Man. He's special. Nasty buddy. And he's from Dagestan. It's like, okay. Imagine this motherfucker gets into MMA, everybody's fucked. If this guy can wrestle at all, which you know he can if he's from fucking Dagestan. Well, they do a lot of kickboxing for Samba, right?

Yeah. This dude's something, though. He's something new. Oh, my God. Because he's 22 years old. And he's like, world multi-champions. He's sleeping them all. Yeah.

It's nuts, man. What weight is that? 145. I think he's 145 or 35 145? Probably tall, tall lean 132? Is that what it says? This thing right here says

on screen. Weight limit 132.7. Interesting. 510. Interesting. 60 kilogram. 22 years old, man. Well, at that weight, well, and then you think about

one has some crazy thing. Look at this, win knockout, win knockout, he's a freak man. And that one dude that made it to the unanimous decision is just this kid from Morocco who's just tough as shit. But God damn, he took a beating. They have such a great product, man. I wonder how many, like, viewers and how the ratings are.

I mean, it's big in Asia, but they have financial struggles. I don't want to speak to it because I don't know enough, but there's a lot of talk. I know they wanted to start doing shows in America. They've done a few. Yeah. I know they did one in Colorado. They maybe have done multiple.

I'm not aware. But it's a great product. That's the thing. It's like I love watching their kickboxing fights on YouTube. And that kid, Yuki-Yoza that I was telling you about, that throws calf kicks, he's fucking everybody up with calf-kicks. And there's another guy from a lot of these Kyokishin guys, especially in kickboxing. So, like, they have different rule sets over there in one. You can fight kickboxing where they use big gloves, or you can fight Muay, where they use little gloves.

And I think they've had Muay fights where they have big gloves, too. So in the kickboxing, you're not allowed to clinch, not allowed to throw elbows. But you can't throw knees, but you can't clinch and just continue to throw knees. And you can't sweep and you can't take guys down. It's a little confusing. I think Muay Thai is the way to go. But the thing about kickboxing in Japan is like they just wanted to, that's what K1 was. They're like, let's just take out all the clinching and make this as exciting as possible.

What's the best way to do that? And the elbows, elbows are very effective, obviously, and not the. a lot of guys out, but also cut a lot of people open and stop fights prematurely, which is why Pride didn't allow elbows, which is really crazy when you think about that. Because Pride had soccer kicks and stumps. But you were fighting multiple times. True. Cuts, you know, if you get cut in the first fight, it could change everything. I think that makes sense. I kind of, but I mean, soccer kicks? Stomps and soccer kicks with no elbows? It's hard to say because and knees to a grounded guy. Yeah. Ground and brown elbows are

so effective. It's so important. I mean, it really, like, guys that think they're comfortable and safe in the guard, you're not. You're not when a guy can still bust you up with elbows from a short distance. It's a very effective technique. Yeah, very damaging cut. Yeah, it is a very, very damaging technique. Well, there's a real problem with the cage, and the problem is the wall. Like, the fence is an artificial structure that keeps you from being able to move. And I've always said this, that I think it should be an open map. It should be a large map. mat and you should not like a wrestling mat yeah like a big wrestling mat like think about a basketball game like thinking about how much space is on a basketball court and you still get 16,000 people in there to watch a

basketball game guys would be i would think running running around a lot of you know maybe you get penalty penalty for moving too much maybe you have like pride yeah you have a red zone yellow card or well you have a you have a center that you're supposed to stay in and then you have a red zone outside of it and then you have a black zone outside the red zone where you get points taken away. Yeah. You enter into the red zone too many times. You get a warning for the first time,

another warning for the second time, third time you get a point taken away. So you can use it once or twice to evade, but then you've got to go back into the area where you're supposed to fight. I think that would be cool. How big of an area are you talking? Basketball court.

That's too big, man. That's too big. How about football? How about football fucking field? That's too big. They're doing that with no rules fights. Yeah? Yeah, I watch a lot of numbers.

no rules fights. They're horrible. The Russian stuff? They're so scary because guys just mount guys and gouge their eyes out. They're mounting people and just shoving their fingers and guys are screaming and tapping and it's like, oh.

I run across some pretty crazy stuff on IG sometimes. From those. But they're fighting in parking lots. They're fighting on. Phone booths, cars upside down, they're fighting everywhere. They're fighting everywhere. I saw them on a cargo container

floating on top of water where you get knocked off. That's crazy. It's so ridiculous. American gladiard is. And you fall into the water and you just breathe water and they don't rescue you in time. Just fight with those kid floaties on. If you get knocked out, you just float to the top.

Instead of those Muay thing. Blow them up. Your corner's blowing them up. Yeah. But I think the cage, I'd like, like, you know how like the UFC, uh, BJJ is that sloped surface? A perfect example. Karate combat. Karate combat does that slope surface.

That's a good one. And that's a big space they fight in karate combat. Yeah. Something like that, I think, would be good. It would be better. There's something about the, but the problem is then you're backing up and you hit that ramp and you fall down. Or what was the old karate? It was like, I don't think it was Chuck Norris's league.

Chuck Norris's league. Yeah. Chuck Norris's league. Something like that. Yeah, I think it was World Combat League or something like that. I went to see that one. WCF. Yeah, something like that.

World Combat Federation. Yeah. I think the first guy to do a slanted thing, though, was Frank Shamrock. You know, a lot of people don't realize that Frank Shamrock had an organization for a while And they fought in like this Sloped sort of thing Fucking Kumete

I think he might have been the first guy Frank was way ahead of his time Way ahead of his time And he's another guy that got erased From, because he had a falling out with the UFC And he got kind of erased from the lineage Of like elite fighters from the past Fighting older and Strike Force

Like still bodied up I know He was a student of martial arts. Yes, yes. But by the time he got the strike force, his kind of best days were behind him, like when Nick Diaz beat him up. It wasn't the same guy.

When he fought Phil Barone, it wasn't the same guy. He had a lot of knee problems. And it's just not, after a while. It's like, he might have been like 40s in Strike Force. I don't know how old he was. Late 30s, 40s, you know? Late 30s for sure. But when you go back to his fights in the UFC,

I mean, he was a pioneer, man. He fought Tito Ortiz. He was nowhere near Tito's size. And he just beat Tito with cardio. Just cardio and defense. And then eventually wore his ass down and beat him up and changed Tito's entire strategy for fighting after that. He was one of the guys early.

It was like super fit, super, you know, really focused on his health and nutrition and supplementation and everything. Back then you didn't see a whole lot of that, but he was one of the guys for sure. Well, the Lions Den, you know, Ken Chamrocks, his, the thing that they put guys, through this gauntlet that they put guys through in order to make the team to make the fight team was hell it was just hell they wanted guys to break and so extreme conditioning extreme mental toughness like all that was emphasized yeah and so frank was the best example of that though because he was he was elite everywhere he was really taking guys down he had great submissions he had great striking and you know he fought some wild fights man He fought Ensign. I don't remember where that was. Was that in K-1?

But he beat Ensign with knees. Like, he'd fought in multiple organizations. Obviously, he started out in Pancras. Yeah. But he had only been training for, like, a year or something like that when he fought Boss Routin and Pancreis. He was super fucking talented, man. Why?

They let him wear boots, right? Or some kind of leg. Yeah, you have some weird shin pad deal with, well, you had wrestling shoes with shin pads and open hand slaps you know yeah yeah it was always poem uh-huh yeah so what is this in does it say what it's in 2011 this says ufc it's not ufc oh it's value tudo japan yeah this was before 2011 they're just yeah okay so this is valetudo japan so valley Tudor Japan, I wonder if it's the same Valley Tudu that Hickson fought in. So Hickson was, you know, the champion of Valle Tudu, Japan early on.

Well, that was like in the documentary choke. You've seen that, right? A long time ago, yeah. Documentary rules. Yeah, man. That documentary rules. That's how Hickson became a legend. Back in the real NHB, no rules days.

Yeah. Yeah. No rules days. Right, right. Well, the first UFC that I went to was UFC 12. in Dothan, Alabama. And you could wear wrestling shoes. You could punch guys in the nuts.

Yeah. Hair pulling. Yeah. Grab their clothes. No weight class. There was two weight classes back then. Like, because Vitor won the heavyweight tournament back then. I think they had two weight classes back then.

So they still recognize that there's some smaller guys and some big guys. The smaller guys are real talented, but they're never going to beat the big giant guys. So let's have a weight class for them. Yeah. I remember renting VHS taste with my dad or the old UOCs, dude. What got you in the sport? Like old were you when you first started martial arts training, period? 17.

17. That's late. Yeah. If you think about it, right? Well, I mean, if you want to call wrestling, I wrestled for two years when I was 10 and 11 for a private club. We did, like, traveling, Texas a lot, Louisiana, small club meets. But other than that, no combat sports, no martial art experience. How did you get into it?

Boxing when I was 17. I wanted to box. Always wanted to box. started going to a boxing gym, met some MMA guys there, didn't know they had MMA where I was from, then went to the MMA gym and never went back to the boxing gym. So what year are we talking?

2006, maybe? Oh, okay, so this was right when the UFC first started. This is like, I remember when Stefan and Forrest did the big thing. This was like beginning around the time I was training, boxing and mixed martial arts. So that wave, like I just never stopped. Wow. Yeah, man.

What was it? The World Combat, like Chris Horodecki was over there, Ben Rathos over there. Remember, what was that? The team organization. That was big at the time. Right. IFL? IFL.

Yes. Everybody had teams and stuff. That was weird. That was real big around that time. Yeah, I didn't know. That's where Dan Miller, Jim's brother, landed the grossest guillotine I've ever seen in my life. Have you ever seen this one? I don't think so.

Oh, my God. It's the worst guillotine of all time. He gets this guy in a guillotine, and traps his head in his chest, and bends his chest. So his head is connected to his own chest, sideways. So like this, his head went all the way down and touched his chest.

I don't even know how he stayed alive. Yeah. Watch this. Watch this. Watch this guillotine. There it is. I have this out. No, watch this guillotine. Look at that. Look at that. Bro. Jesus. Bro, how's that guy alive? He's not. Look at that. Look at that. How is he alive? Have you ever seen that before? Ever? Like, that's crazy.

crazy. That is the craziest guillotine I've ever seen in my life. That's so crazy. It looks like his neck's broken, bro. How's he alive? Yeah. Like, first of all, why it takes so long for the referee to stop? Who's the referee? Steve Mazzagadi. I don't know who it is, but you could have probably stopped that a couple of seconds earlier. But I mean, it's just hard to imagine that a neck can go in that direction. Like, it's so, that doesn't show it, the other angle that you showed is really what showed it. Yeah. The other angle where you see it from the side, where you see his head.

Like, when he cinches it up here, that is crazy. That, you're not supposed to bend like that. Your ears never supposed to touch your chest. No. I don't know how it does. I don't know. I mean, it just seems like everything would break. It seems like you would never walk

again. He's not, Dan's not fighting anymore, huh? No. Jim's still rolling, man. Jim's still fighting. Still rolling. It's crazy. Most fights in UFC history. And still fine. No surgeries? No nothing. Still durable. Did he get beat up, was his last fight Bobby Green? That was the last time I think I saw him fight.

I don't know if that was his last fight. He definitely got beat up by that one. He's definitely lost a step. I mean, he's 40 years old. But man, dude still loves it. Still loves it. Respect to him, dude. Yeah.

I mean. He sent me a cookbook. He came out of cookbook. He's a big cook and a hunter and stuff. He sent me a cookbook and a spatula. Oh, that's hilarious. It's like Captain Redbeard or Jimmy Redbeard. on the spatula, like engraved into it.

Fuck yeah. He's quite a character. Yeah, I like him. I like him, man. I like him a lot, too. He's a very fun dude. And also, complete wits about him, doesn't have any problems mentally.

You know, he's like all those fights. He's always on his farm doing stuff. Like, you would never think he was a fighter if you didn't know. I know, right? Yeah. Yeah. He's a fascinating character. Well, the thing about this sport is that, like,

exceptional humans are exceptional at fighting. Like, to be an exceptional fighter, you have to be an exceptional person. There's really no way around it. It's too hard to do. You have to be a very unique kind of human being that can get through those camps, that can perform under the big lights,

that can figure out how to keep getting better and evolve. For sure. And that type of stuff is like, the last time I was on the show what I was talking about, it's like a gift and a curse, man. It's like you have to be all in at something. Those kind of people who are built like that, whether it's fighting or drinking or whether it's good or bad,

you're going all in. It's dangerous. That's a problem, yeah. The problem is, like, what you see with Connor, when they don't have the fighting, then they go all in with the other things. Yeah. Yeah.

Fighting was always, for me, always pulled everything together, you know? That's why, like, retiring is scary, man. Days are long, I have a lot of time. I don't have to get ready for a fight. I don't, you know. You're still a young man, too. You still have a whole lot of life ahead of you. 37, man.

Yeah, so it makes you think, like, what do I do now? What do I do with my future? What do you want to do? Dude, I kind of got, like, for a week or so, I wouldn't say depressed, but I kind of got into like a funk, like, what the hell am I going to do with my life? Every day I would wake up for the last 20 years, how can I be better fighter? How can I, what's new in fitness? How can I push myself?

I want to be the champion, and then boom, you lay the gloves on and you wake up and you're a fucking civilian. Like, it feels crazy, you know? It's like I'm re-learning who I am. Like, I always knew fighting was just something I did. It wasn't who I was. But after 20 years of doing it, even though you know that and you think that, like it, fuck, I don't know who I am. I am without fighting. How long did it take me?

I'm a father, I'm a husband, I'm a blot of things. Right. But, like, fighting was a cloud in my mind that never went away for 20 years. Right. And now I wake up and it's gone. Like, what do I do? I'm still trying to find out, Joe. I don't know.

Did you still get nervous when you would go to events? You know, that feeling that you get like you... When I competed? No, no, no. Yeah, dude. When you go to other events for other people. Yeah, just feeling like you might have to compete. Dude, my hands are sweaty.

Yeah. Yeah. That's weird, right? For sure. I mean, obviously, I never... It just happened to me last couple weeks when Max fought Charles. I was nervous.

I had armpit stains. My hands were sweating. I'm like, dude, I hope those people don't see this. Right, because you feel like you're still there. I'm connected to both these guys for some reason. Well, you are forever. Yeah, that's the thing. That's what's so interesting about watching, like, old fighters,

even old boxers when they go to, like, Hall of Fame ceremonies and they've seen each other and hugging. Like, those guys are connected in time forever. Yeah, Max came up to the desk, and I was like, we spent an hour of our lives fighting each other as hard as we could. He didn't even know. He's like, no, wait an hour? I'm like, yeah, dude.

We went to two decisions, two five-round decisions, and we fought the first fight was one or two rounds, so it's an hour of fight. Yeah. We spent an hour of beating each other up. That is crazy when you think about it. An hour is a long time. An hour's a long time to fight another man. Especially bearing your soul in front of the world.

It's not a regular hour. Just hanging out at the beach. It's the biggest hour. Yeah. And it's an hour you're prepared for for months each time. But because of that, like you were saying with the boxes, like we know, we have an unwritten thing we know about each other. You know, something we never spoke about, but we know each other better than a lot of people do.

Yeah, you know when a person breaks and who doesn't break. Max doesn't break. He doesn't break. I mean, you see it in that fight. I mean, how does he go through that whole round and not get submitted dry with Oliverer on his back and got close a few times. Like he's crushed his face. Like that old Shin Yaoki where you go to angle,

you can choke through the jaw. Oh, yeah. Guys go to sleep. Net crank, it'll choke you to sleep through the jaw. Well, even just a rear naked across your face, I've seen guys go to sleep. Yeah. They just go to sleep.

You try not to tap and just wake up. And you're like, how did he choke me out over my face? Because it's like enough blood restriction. And crank, it'll cut off the vein or whatever. You know, it'll put you out. It's enough, which is nuts. And it's so much pain on the jaw, too. Oh, it's horrible.

Choking, getting lack of oxygen to the brain is one thing, like the jaw binding up against the bones. Like, you know, that sharp pain you get when somebody's face cranking you in your jaw? Hell. Yeah, it feels like it's going to dislocate. Yeah, well, that was the thing with Kabeb and Connor, where he did that torque, that torque crank where he got his neck. And he cinched it up with the forearm behind the neck and pulls back like this. Like, that is hell. And those guys squeeze is different, man.

Those guys squeeze is different. What is something about lifelong grapplers. There's like a density to them that's just different. The density, the strength, and just like the knowing of where to put the pressure and what angle to turn your hips to make a big difference. People outside don't even see it, but it's so so crucial in the moment. Yeah. When somebody's on your back and they just turn a little bit with the elbow, you know, rather than just squeeze straight on. Small things like that or, you know, what went from.

fights? I'll tell you the fight that I'm really looking forward to, really looking forward to, because I don't know what's going to happen, is Hamzot versus Strickland. I'm very interested in that fight. Strickland is a fucking nightmare standing up. He's a nightmare. For sure. When he did Fluffy Hernandez, I was like, holy shit, man. The body shot, the finish, but he made Fluffy fight. You know, he fights at a slower pace. He has his own pace in there, and he kind of forces the other guy to fight. His opponent has to fight this pace with him. I think the best chance is to blitz him do unorthodox things because he wants to jab circle, throw a kick, jab circle. He keeps a very slow pace.

He's not sprinting or trying to blast you out of there. He just chips. Chips away, high guard, good shell. Yeah, very good show. His defense is extraordinary. He, you know, one of the things he was telling me is like, I spar more than anybody and I get hit less than anybody. And that is true. Like, if you think about how much that guy spars, it's a giant part of his training.

Look at James Tony. He was hard to hit and all you did was spar. Yeah. You know? Right. Perfect example. There's something taught in that, in those moments. 100%.

Yeah. Understanding of distance, timing, pattern recognition. You're constantly in there, moving around. Right. It's like, and then there's also the cardio that comes from sparring. Yeah. It's different. Yeah.

Like, he, because his cardio is almost entirely based on sparring. And man, that motherfucker doesn't get tired in there. Right. And the Fluffy fight was like, I thought Fluffy was going to be. be a problem. I'm like, Fluffy's really good, man. You think he submitted Adolfo Vieira. He's got all this fucking crazy cardio. He

puts a pace on guys and Strickland made it look like he just did not belong in there. He's so heavy on that front foot though. I can't believe guys aren't smashing that calf, man. I know. Well, he's hard to hit, man. And he also knows how to do that fucking that hacky sack thing. Or you know, like you're bending

your knee upwards. You know what I mean? To check it? Yeah. Well, you don't even check it. You just kind of like relax your leg and lift it up. You know who showed me that is Alex Pereira. He's like instead of checking it, it's like, if you check it, it still hurts you. For sure. But he just lifts his leg up. He just goes

heel to knee on the opposite side. And so like a hacky sack. Right, right, right. I've seen guys take thigh leg kicks like that. Yeah. Kind of let it swing a little. But he does it with the calf. So it's like, he sees it coming. Instead of doing that, stepping out and checking it, he just like

look at this. See that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. Well, that, I think in this instance, I think that was probably the, I don't know if that was the first fight of the second fight, but Izzy's calf was already done. He was really happy. He told me after that fight, he goes, when he got stopped in the first fight, he goes, dude, I wasn't even that hurt. It wasn't that. He goes, I couldn't move. He goes, my calf was cooked. It doesn't go away.

Yeah, that one's crazy. That's hard to do, bro. That's kind of silly. Soccer move. That's hard to do. That's kind of silly. I don't think he really does that. Block it with the bottom of your foot?

He could, though. I'm very interested in that fight, too. Him versus Cyril Gahn, that's very interesting. For sure, for sure. And I know the power's going to translate over to heavyweight. That's not going to right. He'll be out of flatline heavyweights. 100%, especially with zero weight cut.

Yeah. He's probably 2.30, 240 walking around. He is. He's 240 something maybe? He's 240. Yeah, dude, come on. He's 240 walking around. That's a legit heavyweight.

He's a big, tall, long. Fucking guy fought at 85. So is Cyril, man. Cyril's good. An athlete heavyweight, not just a big guy fighting at heavyweight. He's a legit heavyweight. It is a crime in the sport that that fight with Aspinall gut stop the way it did, that he eyepoked him.

It's a crime. Yeah. Because that fight was playing out in a very interesting direction because Aspinall was having a really hard time touching that. He was bleeding. He was getting busted up. He was getting touched up a lot. Cyril's jab is legit.

And that's what I was most excited for. I wanted to see Tom have to come back, lose around and come. I've never seen him. Obviously, I've seen him fight, but I've never seen him in a real fight where you have to fight your way back. into it or how many times he's even been in the second round twice maybe something crazy like that nuts and that's why the fan base kind of blew me away i was like these guys are so high on aspinall right now like for a few months everybody was talking about aspirin how good he is i've never seen it not that he's not he might i mean he has to be good to be where he's at yeah but i haven't seen it

well my thought was the real problem that aspinall is going to present is in the grappling he's a Brazilian jiu jitza black belt he's a big fucker he's fast he's got a power double i mean he explodes, but when he's standing there and trying to stand with Cyril Gahn, this is the first time that he was ever in front of a guy who was agile and quick and very technical. Like, Cyril Gahn was doing a lot of sneaky shit. One thing he does is he keeps his hand low and they pops that jab out. So you don't know where it's coming from. Up jab.

He does a lot of weird shit with his front leg too. He is pretty quick for his size. Real quick. Yeah, real quick. And he's a great athlete. And good mobility, good hips. Yeah, man. Cyril's a great athlete.

Like, it's not just that. You've seen him dunk basketballs and shit. Like he can move. Right. But it's just the fluidity of his striking is so efficient. Like that's his world. If you just want to strike with him. Yeah.

I mean, John Jones is so smart. John's like, fuck all this. Guillotine. Even Francis. Francis, well, he had a blown out knee in that fight. But Francis just took him down every round and beat him up. Yeah, man. But that's a different serial.

That's a serial that wasn't concentrating enough on his grappling and probably never thought that Francis was going to. employ that tactic. Right. And then really worked with a lot of wrestlers and try to evolve his game. I think Francis is on that Nate J-G card as well. Right. Right.

He's fighting Philip Linz. Yeah, as an A-to-T guy. Yeah. How good is he? I've never really watched him train that much. I know he made it to the UFC for a stint. Then he maybe went PFL. I'm not sure how good he is.

Yeah. I've seen him at the gym, but I've never watched him train. Fortunate that there's not another big name for him to fight. Like, I was hoping they could get a big name. Bob's up. I mean, who would be the big name? At heavyweight? Yeah, at heavyweight.

That's still talented. No one. Yeah. Heavyweight is the most shallow division in the sport, period. Cain's out of jail. Get him in shape. Well, Kane's got crazy back surgeries and knee surgery and shoulder surgery. Kane was, like, too tough for his own body.

And all years of wrestling, man? Wear and tear. Yeah. He also just never given his body a break, just constantly grinding and pushing, and that's why he was so good. I think in his prime the best. I think he was the best, have you?

Well, he was certainly in the argument. In my mind, it's him and Fador, but honorable mention always I give to Fabricio Verdum. Yeah. It's Fabricio Verdom. People want to think about losses. Think about peak performances. Fabrizio Verdome tapped everybody.

He tapped all the legends. Great trying to him. He tapped Minotaro. He tapped Fador. and he tapped cane. Like, just that, just that alone. He tapped all the legends. I don't know why he's named it, like when I was thinking about heavyweights,

why his name doesn't even come in. I always want to give him respect. I always put it out there because the same way I do with BJ Penn, because people, they only want to think about BJ Penn, maybe when he fought Frankie Edgar or when he fought, Yaira Rodriguez. Go back to BJ Penn when he fought Sean Schur. Go back to BJ Penn when he fought Diego Sanchez.

That BJ Penn was a motherfucker. Joe Stevenson. Yes. Daddy Stevenson, you got to think about the guys when they're in their prime, when they're at, when they're redlining for X amount of years at peak performance. When you're talking about like all-time greats, I get it, all-time grades, you got to think about guys like John Jones. It could be never lost. They stayed flawless their entire career. You're right. But for peak performance, when they were at their best, how good were they? I put prime time BJ Penn at 150.

against almost anybody. Yeah, you're right, man. Bro, he was so good, and his jiu-jitsu was so good, and he could knock you out, and he was an animal. When he was training with Marinovich, when he went over there,

and was, like, really learning how to get in insane shape, and he would come there with a big ass, all that shit. I think the carrying rocks was him. Morinovich had him doing a lot of, like, crazy pliometric stuff, and the Morinovich's strategy was,

you already know how to fight. Fuck all this fighting. You know how to fight. What we're going to do is just give you the most insane gas tank. So your fight training is, like, secondary. What's really important is just having the most spectacular gas tank so you never get tired. But he hated those camps, man.

He hated it. And he only did it a few times. Even in the peak of his shape, he was still a little soft. He was never shredded. He's pretty shredded when he fought Joe Stevenson. Was he? Yeah, he had a six-pack. He looked good.

I mean, it was different. But at 55, it was different. And everybody's body type's different. Well, at 70, he was never really a 170. You know, he was never, I mean, he was much smaller than you. Yeah, yeah. He was never really a 170. He was just so tough that he went up to 170 and beat a primetime Matt Hughes.

Yeah. I mean, he stuck around longer than he should have. He definitely did. And he definitely fought without training well sometimes. And that's the thing people remember. Yes, I hate that, though. They remember that one fight we fought on his tippy toes? Remember that fight?

Yep, yep, yeah. Like crazy. Weird shit. But you got to think about him in his prime. That's what I always say. Don't look at it. Like Fabrice O'R Doom. Don't look at all the fights.

Look at the fights when he was in his prime. When he was putting it all together. Fabricio was a nightmare. It was a nightmare. Like when they hit their stride. That's what I was scared about staying around the fighting too long. Like I retired at 36. I'm like, perfect.

How much more athletic am I going to get? How much faster am I going to get? How much, you know, power is the last thing to go, but durability, speed, reaction time, everything that I need. And if I'm not right in line for a title shot or knocking on the door of it. Like, what am I doing?

Right. I'm fighting just to fight for a paycheck. You know, what's really crazy? That's when... I had to look myself in the mirror, you know, like, okay, this is it. I'm going to... You did the right thing. Be healthy. What's crazy is...

What's crazy is... What's crazy is... The age that you retired was the age that Yoel Romero entered into the UFC. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that nuts? Yeah. It really is crazy if you think about it, because that's really what I...

And there's a few outliers out there in the sport. Like, in boxing, Usock is the great outside. outlier. Terence Crawford is another great outlier. Dude, what about Usick and Rico? Crazy. Rico's a super nice guy. I love Rico, man. Super nice guy. He's a nice guy, but without leg kicks, the fact that he's going to just box and he's going to box maybe the best technical heavyweight that's ever lived, I don't

know, man. I learned my lesson, dude. I bet $5,000 on Fury. Did you? Yeah. The second fight? Yeah. Interesting. If anybody could beat him, it's Tyson Fury.

If anybody can beat Usik, it's Tyson Fury Because Tyson Fury was beating him in the first fight He just got clipped He got clipped in the, I think it was the ninth He got really badly hurt I don't remember what round it was But he got really badly hurt And dropped

But Usik is just so slick Yeah man His footwork, his movement And the fact that he's essentially a blown up cruiserweight And he's beating all these giant heavy weights Like Dubois Like Daniel Dubois is terrifying What he did to Joshua?

Yeah, yeah Just charged forward and just put fucking leather on his face. Yeah. Rico's a real heavyweight, but he's not a pure boxing. No. I mean, he can hit hard. I mean, there's that. But he's such a great kicker.

You're taking a weapon away? It's interesting. It's a spectacle. I'm watching, for sure. But I'm sure he's boxed with a lot of, like, really elite boxers in the gym. I mean. Yeah, over the years, for sure. For sure, he has.

The payday is probably bananas. I'm sure. It has to be. In front of the pyramids? Nuts. Crazy. Who's putting this together? No clue.

I have no idea. Yeah, aliens. That's where they're going to land. They need to do a Coliseum fight. MMA or boxing where they set it up either in the Coliseum or right in front. You know, that would be crazy. Well, they were talking about doing that with Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. They were talking about that fighting in the Coliseum.

A real fight. I know that's so crazy. Dude, that would be so crazy. Have those guys be the first fight in the Coliseum? Do that one at Meta headquarters or something. Don't do that at the Coliseum. Don't disrespect the Coliseum. Don't disrespect the Coliseum.

I know. That's silly. So who's live at the Pyramons of Giza? WBC World Heavyweight Championship, DeZone. But like, I wonder who the promoter is. Cella. WBC, I don't. Is that their faces?

That's so ridiculous. Look at their fucking with their circular golden gloves on. Glory in Giza. It's going to be interesting, man. I'm excited. about it. I wonder who's going to buy that. How much is that going to call?

I'm going to buy it. But, I mean, how many people are going to buy that? You know what I mean? I'm going to buy it because it's, I love Rico. I've had Rico on the show. I mean, I think he's the greatest heavyweight kickboxer of all time. For sure. I feel like the way combat sports has kind of intertwined all different stuff, boxing,

MMA, how big mixed martial arts is now. You're going to get a lot of crossover before you'd get a lot of hardcore boxing fans buying this pay-per-view. But now you're kind of going to get a little bit of Everything. Kickboxing, MMA boxing fans? But Glory has such a small audience, unfortunately. And this is the argument that Dana said to me about kickboxing in America that they tried with glory.

I just don't think they got the right promotion. I think if the UFC was behind it. I mean, it's nonstop action. It's highlights the whole time. Why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you? I feel like if the UFC got behind kickboxing in America, it could be gigantic, especially kickboxing with MMA gloves. That Gazilev guy, was a guy.

fighting in the octagon. No fucking gigantic that would be. Yeah. Or Yukiosa. There's another guy, Masata Nouri. There's a bunch of guys. There's a bunch of guys that are like really elite that are fighting. Yeah.

Oh, a bunch, man. A lot, a lot, lot. Yeah, Masaki Nouri. Ussick opened to fighting John Jones in crossover MMA fight. What? Wait, okay, now you got me interested. Dude. If the UFC comes up with the cheddar...

How much we have to bring him? Yeah, you better start wrestling now. Is that real? Did he say that? Rico is first. Second is whoever wins between Wardley and Dubois and the third fight is my fred greedy belly, Tyson Fury. So he's not...

A rematch with Dubois is a tough sell. He just starched him. The Tyson Fury fight is the big fight. Because Tyson Fury is the only guy. that in my eyes makes sense. He says a fight with Jake Paul and MMA at this stage is not being considered but we're always open to creative and interesting

collaborations in the future. If we were talking about crossword fights, a very interesting matchup could be against John Jones in the United States. Whoa. I don't know what John's going to do, man, with all the stuff going on with the UFC. He might be done. Who knows? He doesn't want to be done. I know he got stem cells on his hip. I know because I helped him get it.

He got it over at, and he's talked about it. He couldn't have talked about it, but he talked about it. He got it at Waste of Well. And so he's feeling a lot better. He does have arthritis in his hip. It bothers him, but it doesn't bother him enough where he can't fight. And, you know, he's the greatest of all time, period. I did stem cells and PRP in my hip.

I didn't notice anything from that. Well, it really depends on where you're getting the stem cells, what technology they're using. There's a bunch of different kinds of stem cells. Yeah, yeah. Talk to Brigham about that. He can explain it to you. I got maybe warm.

But you had a labrum tear, right? It was pretty significant. Yeah, and I had to get the head of my femur reshaped, like a resurfacing. It was kind of egg-shaped and they didn't need to be rounded. So it tore everything off the inside of my hip. So how do they do that? They take your leg out of socket.

They shave the top rounded, and then they micro-they put like a bunch of small holes in it to where it cracks, and then stem cells leak out of your body to create a new surface, out of your bone. How long did that take to recover from them? I couldn't put pressure on it for eight weeks. Wow. Yeah, because it's like. So you're just walking around. around on one leg for two months, solid?

Yeah. And then once you start walking on it, how weird was it? Very weird, because I had to sleep in like a motion machine where my leg wouldn't stop moving at night. Oh, my God. Because your hip capsule is, like, tricky. If it heals up too tight and your leg won't have any range of motion at all. So while it's healing, you need to be in perpetual motion, I guess.

That's crazy. And every week, they would send a new code for my wife to type in the machine, and it would be a little bit different angle. Whoa. Yeah. So my, my, what a nightmare. For those eight weeks, I was sleeping in this metal brace that moved my leg all night. How did you sleep?

It was horrible because it went up to like your junk inside your leg and the outside of your legs. So it's like you had a wedgey by this machine and your legs just motion all night. Oh my God. Yeah, it sucked, man. That's terrifying. But I'm fine now. It healed up good. That's crazy that it worked.

Yeah. Wow. Resurfacing. Whoa. The guy actually who did it in Vail, Colorado, invented this. surgery. GSP's had hip surgery there. Really?

Yeah. He invented this surgery. GSP had to do the same bullshit? I don't know if he had exactly what I had, but he had surgery there on his hip. God, that sounds like two months of no sleeping. How'd you sleep? Did you get used to it? Well, the first week, pain medicine and stuff you're on, all that stuff, it was after,

like when I stopped taking all that. Pain medicine must have been fun. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. Triple Z, dude. I was having dreams. and getting the best sleep of my life. Yeah, that's a time where it makes sense to take that shit. Like, you're in a fucking crazy bracelet.

Let's party. Yeah, for sure. Watch Netflix and not give a shit about my leg. Yeah, I'm sleeping in this machine. Hamster wheel. For real. Where the hell's happening with my legs? I was on one of those when I got my knee reconstructed.

You had a bunch of knee surgeries. Yeah, but my left knee, I had a petteller tendon graft, and they put me on one of them things where it does this, like when I was in the hospital. So that's how I slept. drip. So you could press the button to get more morphine. I was like, blink, point, blink, blink, point. Dude, I was flying there. I had the same thing on my hip. They put an epiduro, and then they had a nerve block through my stomach, so I was, like,

completely paralyzed from the waist down. But I had the button thing. I don't think it was working anymore, because I, I revved it. It was... You red-lined? It was shooting blanks, man. That's hilarious. It is weird, though, to see your, like, knee constantly moving forward, but I only had to do it, like, a couple of nights. I can't imagine. I did it for weeks. I can't imagine. That must have been so hard to sleep, man.

Yeah, the motion wasn't so bad because it's kind of slow. Oh, okay. It was the metal in my groin. Oh, yeah. It probably rubbed it raw and shit. Oh, God. Fuck, man. But like I said, I was on the pain medicine, so.

It's crazy that it all worked, though. Yeah, dude. Shout out to that doctor. Shout out to all these doctors. I say that all the time. Like, both my knees would be fucking completely useless if it wasn't for amazing doctors. Right. Shout out to these guys.

I was just talking about figuring shit out. I worked with Paul Felder at that Vegas show, and he just had a hip replacement. Yeah, he had the real deal. But it's so, yeah, no, he had a replacement replacement. Why did he have to do that versus what you did? I'm not sure exactly. It's something to do with the spacing, I think, inside your hip, how much spacing you have. Because my spacing was good.

I wasn't a candidate for a replacement. Well, Paul went full nutty after he stopped fighting and started doing Iron Man's. Yeah, dude, he was telling me he travels with a bicycle. He does like... Still does that? Cycling for five hours, like in a hotel room, like crazy. That's not good. Crazy, man.

That's unhealthy. Yeah. Why are you doing that, Paul? Five hours, he told me. Well, the same kind of drive that made him a great MMA fighter made him want to, like, be the best Ironman dude in the world. You need something like that, man. Way before the surgery, just a couple years ago when he first got diagnosed, I guess,

with some injury. Yeah. So range of motion in my right hip, reached out to her, Dr. D. from the UFC to help with an MRI. Long story short, I have the hips an 80-year-old man. No soft tissue left, grinding bone-on-bone. The problem is, once they put a artificial joint in you,

you have that artificial joint forever. It's never going back. And as biologics get better and stem cells get better, they're better and better at rehealing or healing that actual tissue. And if you could just hang in there, this is kind of the conversation that I have with John, because if you can just hang in there, they're so close.

They're injecting stuff into discs now and making the discs larger. Right. So like people with back problems where the doctor's like, look, we've got to take some of your disc out. Hang in there. Hang. And also look into other therapies, decompression. There's a lot of different things that you could do that can create space where your, you know, disc is pushing against your nerves. You can alleviate a lot of that.

Surgery is the absolute last step. Especially with your back. Especially with your back. Look, if you have a blown ACL. Of course, they're going to cut you up. They'll do it anytime. Yes. You know, it's good business.

Cut you open. Then the medicines, the hardware, everything. It's a racket. That's the last step. That's the problem. When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And, you know, and when doctors get paid for doing surgery, they want to do surgery because that's where they make their living.

Right. And it's a real problem with stuff like the back, because I don't know anybody that's had a back surgery and been better. Right. The only big one I could think of, I remember Nate Quarry was a big advocate for some company. Remember he had a bad- Artificial Spacer.

Yeah, he had artificial discs put in his back, way back in the day. Yeah, he's the guy I think about back surgery. But he also, like, got, it was an intense pain because of that. And I think it wound up, like, becoming a problem later on. Like, I know guys that initially had some relief because of back surgery, and then it started getting way worse after that. That's the same follow-ups. Always the same story.

Like, same thing with necks. Like, you lose strength. It's always bothering you for the rest of your life. Like, Mike Brown has a fusion, where they went in through the front. Fusions are rough. My buddy Alan Gilbert had a neck surgery where they, Kayla Harrison just had one. Like, once you have that, something. What did Kayla have done?

I don't know exactly. I don't think she's telling anybody. I know that. I'm pretty sure they went in through the front. Right, but I don't think she's telling anybody what exactly happened. Because, like, Al Jermaine had a disc replaced, and he came back and beat Piotrion in the rematch and looked fucking great and fought really well with that neck issue.

And you don't hear him complaining about it? No. I mean, he said it's great. Yeah. I think that the new artificial discs that they're putting in the necks, a lot of them, it works out really well. I know quite a few people that have had those. I've been fortunate, man.

I haven't had any neck. She had a repair herniated discs in her neck. Right. So the thing is, what they usually do is just take some of the, the disc. out and then you have less disc so it's not bulging anymore but you have less disc now so now you have more degenerative disc issues and I just think there's other options and one of the options is decompression I don't know if anybody ran that by her but I have a fucking hang harness it's attached to a chin up bar and I put it around my neck it straps under my chin and I put

my weight on it I just like stretch my neck out it works you know relieving I Here it pop, pop. They replaced a disc. Oh, she had to replace. Okay, so she got that thing that Al Jermaine got done. Yeah, how is she going to fight that quickly? O'i-e-e-you-ye. Look at that.

O'i-oy, yo-yo. I wonder what her turnaround time is. I mean, International Fight Week, maybe her, her and Amanda? Well, she's fighting. She was supposed to be fighting at the White Hart. Yeah, yeah. Her and Amanda were supposed to. They decided not to do that.

Yeah. So maybe the summer? Maybe. Because it's going to be, I mean, that's a big fight, her and Amanda. It's a big fight. But, I mean, there's a possibility that you do something like that and you never the same again. So she might not ever. Oh, the surgery, yeah.

Yeah. It's like, whenever you deal with your spine, it's very tricky. Yeah. You know, it's just one of those things. It's like, er. Shoulders, knees. Mm-hmm. There's some things, man, you don't want to injure.

I don't think anybody's ever come back from a knee replacement in fought MMA. I've never heard of that. I've heard of that. I've heard a disc replace. I've heard of a lot of knee surgeries, guys come back. Modestis Bukakis was the worst. Remember that? He fought Khalil and Khalil's side kicked his knee sideways.

And it hyper-extended it? Oh, it went sideways. John does that knee-stomp thing too. I don't know how I feel about that, man. Well, Ian Gary did it to Shavkot. I don't know how I feel about it. Fuck Shavkot's knee up. I know.

It's kind of fucked because, look, yes, it's effective, but so is eyepokes. I feel like that's what I was about to say. I feel like it's kind of dirty, like legalized eyepokes. It is dirty. I mean, so are nut shots. Like, nut shots are effective, too. Are we going to allow those? No.

I mean, why are we allowing someone to do a technique that you can't? We do have 12 to six elbows now, so that's, at least we're getting somewhere. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. But I'd rather have knees to a grounded opponent than kicking the knee sideways. It just seems like it takes a year off of your career, at least. So can a knee bar, soak in a arm bar. You can tap.

True, true, true, true. You get a knee bar, you can tap. Inside heel hooks is scariest because you only got a couple of, like, microseconds to tap. When you get that one, that one's so nasty. The knee across, you have no time. You just got to tap. Yeah.

You just got to know when you're done. You got to know when he got you and not let it. Did you ever see when Mikey Musamichi fought some cat in, I think I know what you're talking about. And the dude would not tap. He was just ripping his knee apart. And Mikey was talking about it afterwards. He was so gross.

I was like, why did you make me do that to you? Why didn't you just tap? He mangled that guy's legs. I think I saw a highlight of that. It was horrible. It's so horrible to watch. You got it? Yeah, show me.

Yeah, let's see this. Here it is. Look at this. Look at his leg. Bro. Bro. Bro. That is almost as nasty as watching that armbar, or that guillotine from Dan Miller.

Look at this. This dude won't tap. It's so crazy. And Mikey is just a master at destroying your knees. Any normal human being would have tapped. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And he does this like seven times in this match

where he rips this guy's leg, sideways, left ways, right ways. The guy's knees destroyed. Like, look at that. Look how nasty this is, man. This is so nasty. Look how side. That angle, too?

That angle is so awful. The fact that this dude is just tolerating it, like right there, that's destroyed. Yeah. That is destroyed. I don't know if that dude ever competed again afterwards. He might never be the same. No, not be the same. He won't be the same.

It'll never be 100%. Like you get your shit ripped apart like that. For sure, there's some meniscus damage, ACL, MCL, MCL, everything. Fuck that. Heel hooks. That changed. I've been fortunate man with my knees. I have torn meniscus in my right knee, but never needed surgery, you know. Had a partial tear on my ACO when I fought Islam. He pulled me off against the fence and my knee slid and I felt it terror. It felt like fire in my knee, you know. And when you feel pain, in a fight. You know it's bad because you usually don't. Right. But I felt it burning like fire. But you didn't need surgery?

Didn't need surgery. Did a bunch of physical therapy. I had a partial tear. There's something called maybe a ligamentum or something that connects where your ACL is. Every time you tear your ACL, the ligamentum is completely torn always. And mine had a partial tear in that. So I must have took the weight off or we switched the position right before it tore my ACL. Oh. Yeah. But I had like bruising, you know, back of my leg was all bruised up. Couldn't bend it for a little bit. But now it's 100%.

Yeah, I feel great. Yeah, that's interesting. Like Arnold out, no, who was it that was telling me that? Like, there's different people that have had different levels of tears. And then in those levels of tears, like some of them you can come back from 100%, but some of them... Okay, this dude... A broken ankle, too. Oh, my God.

So this dude that... Try saying his name. How do you say his name? Gantamur By Endurance So this is the guy Mikey Musumichi He was torn ACL

Torn MCL Torn MNuskis And a broken ankle That's crazy That's crazy He did like a toehold or something How did he break his ankle So it was it Brendan Allen

Was Brendan Allen was in the podcast He was telling me this He tore his ACL Completely And never got it fixed And it reattached Wow Yeah

I got a sloth slightly different angle, but reattached. Like it tore off, but it was still hanging in there, and it re-heeled. I was like, that's not. I never even heard of that before. But I know some people that have had, like, a three-quarter tear, and it heals, but it's not really the same. Right. It's still a little funky.

You know, Brad Pickett fought his whole career with the torn, no ACL in one of his legs. I think Justin has that situation. Yeah. Like Brad would sit on the ground on the mat and then grab his shin and slide it forward, and you could see, like, the movement. How does that not chew your meniscus apart? He fought so many fights like that. Oh, my God. Well, Rico Rodriguez did too.

Rico always had a blown out ACL. Huh. And he fought. Rico was down in Louisiana for a while, man. Rico Rodriguez was. Oh, he was one of the first Brazilian jihitsu blackpals. I trained with him at Tim's gym before. Yeah, he was really good on the ground, man.

Rico was really good on the ground. And he was a UFC heavyweight champion at a point in time. I know. People forget. Dude, I didn't even know who he was. I was sparring him. That's crazy. He was a heavyweight champion of the U.S.?

Like, no way. I know, and that funny? He was out of shape. You know, I was like, who's this big tattooed guy? Let's go. There's a lot of guys that people forgot. They slept on. It's interesting when you think about that.

He was running a gym in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I don't know if he still is. Rico was? Yeah. He had partnered with a... In Baton Rouge. In Baton Rouge, Louisiana, he took over in L.A. boxing.

They turned it into a UFC gym now. But he was part owner or something. He was running it. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, it's a hard. hard road when guys retire and people don't even remember them.

Like, at least you have a giant name. Like, you're always going to be able to do seminars. People are always going to want to bring you into events. You have a career no matter what. Yeah, I've been doing a lot of watch parties where I get with the fans and watch the fights. It's fun, man. I enjoy it. That's cool. It's sometimes a little awkward because the fans will stick around too long.

Like, I'm watching the fights with you. But you come sit at my booth and like, we run out of things to talk about. It's like, okay, man, let me get your number. Hey, bro. Oh, hey, my buddy's on FaceTime. Can you talk to so-and-so? Like, dude, just chill. I know. Some people just can't hang. Dude, but I fought, like I said, 19 years. I say 20, but it's 19 years that I fought.

Until that Connor fight, like, that's when things changed for me. When you knocked on Connor? Yeah. Wow, that's interesting. That's crazy because... Like the door opened for seminars, for appearances. That's, that changed. That's so weird.

And I had been in so many UFC main events. I had fought for the belt. I've done all this stuff, but that guy's name, man. Isn't it nuts? Just personality got him so, well, obviously, very skilled. For sure. The Eddie Alvarez fight, that's to Connor in his prime form when he was in the Matrix. Yes.

Eddie. The Aldo fight was great because it was one shot. And nobody's done that to Aldo ever. Ever, ever. And since, that was amazing. But the Alvarez fight was him in the Matrix. When the punch is moving up and way. Touching his nose and he's firing back those combinations.

He was just in the zone. He was, that was focused Connor. Walk in the park. No, Eddie's good, man. Eddie's tough as fuck. When Eddie beat Dosanjos, I was like, holy shit, man. I was always a big Eddie fan. Oh, you was.

Back in dream. His fights with Chandler. You want to talk about taking years off your life. Those fights that those two had that nobody was watching other than the hardcore guys, those were, to this day, I'll tell people you want to watch some chaos. Watch Eddie Alvarez and Michael Chandler in Bellator. There's some of the best fights of all.

Knockdown, drag out, both guys. If you're a fan of chaos, watch those fights. Those fights were fucking bananas. And so that's what we anticipated when Chandler came over. And then we knocked out Dan Hooker in the first round. I was like, oh, shit, he's here. Same card. Same card as Me and Connor.

But I think that it was too late. I think he had already suffered so much punishment. And so if we got a hold of Michael Chandler, like six, seven years before that when he was fighting in Bellator, this is the problem with PFL, this is the problem with Bellator. And I don't think it's a problem

because I think these guys are prize fighters. You know, like, I think Francis and God who said it best when he was talking about this Netflix card, they're saying, someone said to him, do you think this is this fucks with your legacy? He goes, legacy, who's legacy for? For you?

He goes, fuck, keep your legacy. Give me my money. Right. Give me my pay. This is what I'm supposed to be getting. I'm Francis Ingano. I think he's right. But he's Francis Ngano.

He's already the UFC heavyweight champion, left as the UFC heavyweight champion. But for a lot of these guys that are starting their career, their best years are in these other organizations. And not enough people know. Like Johnny Eblon, perfect example you were talking about before. He knocked out Leon Edwards' brother. He's fucking good, man.

I cornered him when he beat Musassi. Yeah. Massassi's a legend. He grew up watching him, a legend. There's a guy. Another guy that people forgot about. Gagar Musassi was a fucking beast. By the time he made it to the UFC,

I was already such a big fan, but the casuals didn't know who he was. Oh, he was so good, dude. Gagard was so good and so smart. Right. Just so smart and so smart and unassuming. Was it him who up kicked Jacari back? Yeah.

Into a triangle. Yep. Yeah, man. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I think that was in Dream. Dream.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Heigar was a beast, man. He was a beast. Eddie Alvarez and Dream was a bunch of good fights. And Gagard stopped Wyden in the UFC. Really good fundamental boxing, great jab. Yeah, great everywhere, man. Yeah, good wrestling, good wrestling defense. He's super smart, too, just a very, very intelligent guy.

But he got put on the shelf with the Bellator deal. He got put on the shelf, and I don't know what's going on with him. I don't know how to win Gaggart and Sossi last fought. He might not even still be under contract with PFF. or whatever. Well, I think he's 40 now. He was old in the U.S. Yeah, he's got to be close to 40, if not

older. Where's Gaygard and Musassi these days? He got drafted in the global fight list. Yeah. Oh, that thing. I knew that was going to fall apart from the jump. That thing was weird.

When I was talking to coaches at American Top Team, and they were telling me, like, all these ex-UFC fighters what their contracts were with this company. I was like, dude, they haven't even put on one show and they're signing guys.

kind of contracts. I mean, the money was crazy. So 2023 was his last fight. How old is he now? So he lost to Fabian Edwards, the same guy that Eblen knocked out. 40? 40. Yeah, cornered Eblen. The dream catcher. In that fight, dude, he got cut so bad with an elbow. Like, I can see the vein in this. I have it in my phone. It was crazy. I have it in my phone. The vein's still intact. It didn't cut the vein, but you can see it. Oh, boy. Oh, it's pretty, pretty gnarly. And then he stopped him. Yeah, elbow. We were in Ireland. Yeah, Eblin's a tough guy, man. And I think he's like one of those guys

that's like at the very top of the heap at 185. But again, I know about him, but how many people do? That's unfortunate. Yeah. You know, because he's been fighting over the PFL for how many years now? Well, he was Bellator. Belator and P.O. And then they bought him, yeah.

For how many years now? A long time. I mean, I think he might have had one or two fights when Belator signed him. He got in early at Bellator. But he's a student, man. He's going to keep getting better. He's pretty young still. Submitting Marcotte's crazy.

That's crazy. Right? And you think how small he is? He fought at 185 in the UFC. And he submitted 260-pound Mar-Hunt. Gagard Musassi was a fucking beast. He was a beast. Just technique.

Yep. Just technique. Technique, toughness, and intelligence. Just so crafty. Just so good everywhere. Good on the ground. Good standing up. And super patient, man.

Methodical. Yeah. Yeah, I've always been a fan of it. There's a lot of those guys that just got people forget about. They forgot, you know? Yeah, it's a bunch. I always say one guy that people underestimated because they didn't get to see him when he was in his prime

or they just forgot is Mazvedal. Oh, man. People forgot how good Mosvedal is. Mazvedal knocked out Eve Edwards with a head kick. Remember that? Yeah, bow dog. Yep. Yeah, bro.

Mosvidal in his prime was a motherfucker. He was good. When he knocked out Daryntill, remember that shit? That switch step or... Oh, my God. Yeah, of course. Switch step. I think he caught him with a left hook.

Knocked him out on cold. Cold. And he was a dog, like when he started focused on his wrestling, he was a, the hugging strike force, man. At 55, like he was a... Oh, yeah. He was a dog back then. No, Mouse Vidal was a beast, man.

And he's good everywhere, man. He's good everywhere. He has good jihitsu, good wrestling, good kickboxing. Yeah. He's good everywhere. I mean, when he went out of the 170, that's not really his weight class.

His real weight class was 55. Yeah, but I think as he got older, he's a big guy. He's a big guy. He has really thick legs, and he's a little bit taller. It's older than me for sure. But, like, when he was really competitive, I feel like it was at 55.

Yeah. But, I mean, like, he keeps guys problems at 70. Like, the Darren Till fight was at 70. He fucked a lot of guys up at 70. Cowboy. Yep, cowboy. Was that at 70? Body shot, 170?

Damn. Yeah. No, Masadol, people forgot. There's people. And then, you know, he was having those backyard fights in the Kimbo-Slic days. Yeah, yeah. Which is crazy. The bare-knuckle Kimbo fights.

Kimbo slice fights. Yeah, man. Kimboe used to come to the American Top Team used to bring his kids and stuff It was crazy talking to him Because I grew up watching his fights You know But he was like the first guy to become a legend on YouTube

Yeah You know Everybody knows who he is Pussy looks so cool The bald head and the beard And the hair in the back Yeah everything was crazy The braids in the vet

Yeah super jacked And just fucking people up In the backyard Yeah Like they were moving around Like satellite dishes and shit A bodyguard or a driver For a guy

in Miami who started a porn company and that's how it started. Exactly. And they organized these fights where they were just no warm up. Just all right, let's go. No, you'd get out the car in the front driveway and walk to the back and just start scrapping. I know. It was crazy. But as a kid, like when that stuff came out as a kid, that was such a big thing to watch,

you know, that we had to download it illegally on like lime wire or something back then. Yeah. You know, that was wild times. And then to see him in the UFC and the ultimate fighter, dude, what a journey that guy had. I know. What balls it took for him to do that? to enter into the UFC with like basically zero grappling. Yeah.

And, like, really just kind of learning the sport. But, you know, so good boxing, but I don't think, like, Jim, not trained boxing, just natural ability and. Well, he definitely had some training, right? The way he moved was, even in the bare knuckle, the way he moved was like a boxer, a shell, you know? Yeah. Like a Mike Tyson movement.

Yeah, but it was like kind of rudimentary. Remember when he fought Seth Petrazzelli? Yeah. Yeah. Like last minute, Petruzelli comes in last minute, like Ken Shamrock had some sort of a dispute with them and maybe got cut backstage or something instead of how to cut. And so like last minute they swapped out Seth Petrazzelli. And he knocked him out.

Yeah. I called that one. I called that one on camera. No, I wasn't doing it. The commentary. I think it wasn't Elite X-A. I think that bankrupted them or something. I don't know how, like they...

That fight bankrupt them? I don't know if it bankrupt them, but after that happened, they didn't have many more shows after that. Well, I think they were going under anyway, unfortunately. Yeah, I don't know how that fight would have bankrupt them, but... Well, they had some guy who was a box. guy who was running the whole thing. Was it named Gary Shaw?

I don't know back then. I don't remember either. But, you know, like, it's hard to make money in these things, man. Like, those things are hard. Like, the UFC doesn't get the credit deserves in terms of the promotional machine. Like, that's a smooth running machine. Oh, yeah. That machine's been around for a long time.

It's so polished between the production, all the guys in the truck, the directors, the producers. Oh, they're the best of the best. Yeah, they're the best. It's hard. And then you got all. the best fighters and it's like the product so when they have a fight like Holloway and and Olivera and like oh this fight wasn't good like that's a great fight man it's just you can't be a casual people are just bloodthirsty yeah you know like this

listen to do that to Max Holloway's crazy do you not appreciate that go watch baseball wrestlers great grapplers have never done that to him I know it's nuts it's nuts if you think about it yeah it's exciting man that you have is definitely the best at it. With this whole Paramount thing, I was kind of, we'll see how it turns out. I was kind of worried,

like if you take pay-per-view off the table, how much is UFC going to put the biggest fights together because they don't need to sell pay-per-views. They're guaranteed money. I was just wondering if that would not water it down, but we would get a bunch of weaker cards, and I'm still waiting to find out, man. Well, it is weird, right?

Because with pay-per-view, you're always building it up so people buy it. And then it also points, like the fighters get paid points. So how are fighters getting paid now? I've been asking every show at work. I ask everybody. I want to know because my last few years in the UFC

I was- Nobody's telling you? Nobody's telling me anything. They're keeping you in the dark? Keeping me in the dark. What the fuck is that? Keeping me in the dark, man. Because, you know, I was pay-per-view partner multiple fights with the UFC.

If there's, and that was always the thing they kind of, in discussion about contracts and about future fights that they kind of held over you. Like, you win this fight. One day you're going to fight for the belt. You're going to get pay-per-view. Your life's going to change.

That was always a carrot they hung, like, to make, you know, to do anything. That was the goal to one day fight for the belt and get the pay-per-view money. But now that that's gone, I mean, Conner's not going to fight. Even Justin at the White House. There's no way these guys aren't fighting with that backdoor money. So they must be just guaranteeing them a bigger per. I don't know. Well, I think Justin would fight no matter what because it's for the title.

This is his last fight. Well, that, yeah, the title, the title. It's the title. It's at the White House. He's a patriot. It's the last fight. you know I think he would fight no matter what but like you know Rhonda Rousey

you know she's promoting the Netflix fight and she made I don't know if you saw what she said but she had this big long speech about the UFC selling for seven billion dollars these fighters aren't making enough money and you know look she made some good points and the most important thing is that she gets the conversation out there and it puts pressure on the UFC to pay people more you know and if Netflix King becomes successful at MMA, if they can become successful putting cars together and pulling fighters away. Like right now they're doing a one-off, right? It's one-off and it's kind of a gimmicky thing.

And listen, this payroll is going to be crazy. It's going to be crazy. You got Rhonda, Francis, Nate, everybody's getting crazy money. The payroll is going to be nuts. But if anybody's got that kind of money, it's Netflix. They throw around a lot of ridiculous money. They make so much money. So they can kind of do that. The question is, are they going to do that more? than once. So if they do that more than once, then what happens is it's all about the name of the fighters, just like boxing. Like if boxing, no one cares if it's Golden Boy or Bob Aram. No, of course. No one cares about that. What they care about is who's fighting who? Is it Benavides? Who's he fighting? Is he fighting Beavall? Let's go. That's a great fight. So if Netflix can kind of

do the boxing thing on Netflix with like big name stars, they can be a major player. And that will elevate everybody's pay scale. So as a lot of people like, oh, Rhonda, how could you turn her back on the UFC and talk shit like that? If she's, what she's saying doesn't make any sense, she can't say it. Right? So if what she's saying makes sense, then you have to go, she's got a point. Yeah. She's got a point.

She got a point. They sold it for $7 billion or whatever it is. They got this $7 billion deal, whatever the fucking deal was with Paramount, not even selling it. sold rights to it, right? That makes sense. She's making sense. And so if she's saying this and Netflix listens and if someone comes along, they're a shrewd businessman, they go, look, and there's a lot of people, their contracts are coming up.

And when these people's contracts are coming up, let's get into negotiations. And then all of a sudden some people start drifting over. Yeah. So if like, you get like an Islam Makachap who starts leaving and they leave and go fight on Netflix. And then they can talk four or five top major contenders into doing, look, it's a big ask. Look, I love it. the UFC, spent most of my professional career there, but I love seeing these other organizations

come up and people making money. Like you said, it rises everything. It's more places for people to work, you know. It's great. It's only good. Olivier Alba Mercier made a million dollars in the PFL. Yeah. And I think he did it more than once, right? Didn't he win the tournament twice or something like that? I'm not sure. He definitely won it at least once. The Canadian gangster? Right. A guy who's not in the top ten of the U.S. goes over to another organization, it makes a million dollars. Okay, I don't know if that's sustainable for them.

I don't know how they came up with that money. They gotta be bleeding money out. They have to be bleeding money. Nobody's watching. Or even guys like Pettis, who was a former world champion, who you know his contract was good in the UFC. Right. She was not to resign with the UFC and he went to PFL.

They had to be paying big money. They have to be. So it's all competition ultimately is good for the most important thing, which is paying the fighters. So I'm happy. And places to work. Like if the UFC cuts you or something, back, you know, 10 years ago, there's the only place to make money.

Right. They cut you, now you got to get a job, maybe fight, try to get back in part-time fighting, like try to get, you know, now you can pivot and still have a career. Well, this is the thing with Francis, when Francis left the PFL, everybody's like, well, now he's fucked because he can't fight in the UFC, can't, like, I wanted him to come back to the UFC. Yeah, yeah. I was like, come on.

Can we figure out a way to make this happen? But Dana does not want to have anything to do with them. like apparently they did not get along very well which is like I'm like come on yeah I don't come can I help can I fucking get you guys in a room together and fucking calm everybody down but at the most important thing he's still a guy I want to watch oh yeah you know fuck yeah I mean he's the legit heavyweight champion if you think about it

he never got beat in MMA as a heavyweight champion you know and then he fought Henan Ferreira in BFL Yeah. It's another ATT guy. But it's another one where it's like, who's watching that? I mean, and if you're watching it, you're just watching it for Francis. Me and you. Yeah.

Like, I mean, I wanted to know, like, what were the numbers for that fight? It's probably the biggest fight they ever put on. I don't think I've ever seen any numbers from PFL. And I think, like, the crazy. He was, like, getting $20 million a fight, and he wanted his opponents to get a huge amount, too. I forget what the, he had, like, a minimum amount his opponents would get in his contract. Respect. I didn't know that.

Yeah, that's part of his contract. I forget what the number was, but it was substantial. So Henan Ferrer got a giant payday for that fight too. It's like, how are they, where are they getting? I guess they have Saudi money. I think they did for some of the shows, because they went to Saudi to do some shows. But I don't know if they're backing them the whole company. You're going to need something like Netflix.

And Netflix can kind of pull it off, because Netflix has a massive promotional machine, but they need big names. So, like, now that they have Nate and Mike Perry on the car, too, like, okay. Okay, so you got Nate, Mike Perry, you got Francis, Philip Lins, you have Rhonda and Gina. Okay. Now you have three interesting fights. Yeah. You've got to need a few more. And it's on Netflix, so it's going to be free, but even if Nate and Mike Perry was the head of, the headliner, I would have bought that paperview. One hundred percent, when you don't have to buy it. Exactly. It's on Netflix. So this is what gets interesting.

So if this fight goes on Netflix and gets 50 million views. It's going to get a lot. Yeah, it could get more views than any fight ever. Yeah. It could. It's very possible that that, because Netflix is bigger than anything. If they got more views than anybody ever, that would be fucking, but then YouTube might come along.

Most views on a mixed martial arts event. Hey guys, we're YouTube. We're even bigger than Netflix. YouTube is bigger than fucking Netflix. YouTube is everywhere. And if they come up with some crazy kids, if some, if more. Players get involved in this and more people become free agents, it could get very interesting. Dude, it's crazy to see how far the sport has come.

Because, like, all these big companies wouldn't want to touch this human cock fighting back in the day. Now everybody wants a piece of the pie. I know it's not. It's cool now, they know. Yeah, it's wild, right? That cage fighting became something that, like, corporate America wants to get involved. Dude, I'm in the airport. I'm in the grocery store.

Grandmothers, old, you know, ladies are walking up to me talking about fights, which is insane. Insane. Insane. Because 15 years ago, it was bearded guys with tattoos with being the grocery store. We'd whisper about it, you know? It was frowned upon. We'd talk about fight club, you know? Yeah.

Now it's like soccer moms. Did you see the fight last weekend, the arm bar? I'm like, what are you talking about? Well, that's all the UFC. The UFC, with that one deal, the Fratitas have such huge balls because they were down $40 million when they made that deal for Spike TV to do the ultimate fighter. And they were like, we're fucking hell. hemorrhaging money, and they were talking about selling it. And just a perfect storm stepping and forests.

The world was watching, man. And it felt special. I remember being at my mother's house. I knew I was watching something special. Yeah. Like, this is special. I know. It was crazy being there live, too.

It was so nuts. It was so nuts to watch it evolve and watch it burst out. And by then, by 2005, I had already been working for them for like four years. Because I, well, I started in 97 with the old owners, and I did like the backstage and post-fight interviews, and then I did it for a little bit, and then I had to quit. I was like, this is costing me money.

I made more money going to a comedy club for a weekend than I would flying to Dothan, Alabama. Bosier City, Louisiana. But I was happy I did it because it was fun and this is exciting. And I remember me and Eddie Bravo back then, we were like, man, you know what the UFC needs? This is like literally a conversation we had in like 98. They need some crazy billionaires that love the sport.

to just dump a bunch of money in it, because we know it's exciting. It's just the rest of the world doesn't know. And along came to Fratitis. And they did it. Did they saw it and rode that vision out, and it paid off? It's nuts. It's literally like exactly what we said needed to happen.

And then for that fight to happen in the ultimate fighter between Stefan Bonner and Forrest Griffin, because it was a perfect kind of fight, it was so evenly matched. It was so chaotic, and they knew each other so well from being in the house together. They just went after it for three solid rounds at the end. They had nothing.

How could the idea of the actual Kumete idea of putting the best fighters from all over the world, whatever discipline they train in, let's find out it was the best. I mean, it has, of course it's going to succeed. It's chaos. Yeah. It's everything you want to see. And the crazy thing, it was really kind of invented as a showcase for Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. Because the whole Horian was like, you know, like, look, jiu-jitsu's going to prevail. And he was kind of right.

No, I mean. At first. Dude, hoist was in there against giants. Dan Severn. Dude, come on. Kemo. What do you weigh, 180 pounds? Yeah, maybe.

Not even. I think he said. Fighting these bodybuilders. And I asked him why they pick him. He goes, look at this face. And look how beautiful I am. I'm so good looking. That's why they pick me.

We're wearing pajamas. We even know what a guy was? Well, I had no idea. Jiu-Jitsu was that effective. I was so confused. Yeah. I was like, someone's going to kick him. He's fucked.

Someone's going to punch him. No. Like, you're just taking dudes to the ground, that stomp, that like, sidekick stomp. And no idea of anything that they're doing. Just letting him pass guard. Let him do, do anything. You don't know anything. He's choking guys with the ghee, too.

He's grabbing his own cars. Lepel? I'm like, oh, this is wild. That's one thing I do, like, I got away from the geese. So, from white belt to brown belt, I competed IBJF, every tournament I could, would do my weight class, would do absolute, get the reps. I love jiu-jitsu, but I could probably around 20,000. 11, 2012, I stopped putting the ghee on.

It was all a mixed martial arts training because I was getting, before I would use jihitsu to prepare for fights at a small school I was at, but when I went to American Top Team, I didn't need it anymore because I had such high-level guys on the mats at all times. I was doing jihitsu no-ghi every day, but it's been so many years since I've put on a ghee and had like a jihitsu practice, man. Even the practices I do now are all no ghee. It's fun.

I want to get back in the ghee. Gis fun, but Eddie Bravo said it best. goes, if you were a professional tennis player, would you practice for tennis by playing racquetball? No, you wouldn't. You would play tennis. You would do the thing that you do. If you want to get really good at MMA Jiu-Jitsu, you need to do no-Gee.

And he's right. I mean, Ghee definitely helps as well, but you got to do no-gee. What Ghee does is it teaches you that you have to be technical with your defense because you can't muscle out of things. Yeah. But the reality is, like, you should just be technical with no Ghee. For sure. That's the thing.

Like, get out of the thing. I always say that the best jiu-jitsu is to learn jiu-jitsu from a small guy. All technique. Yeah, like a barrett Yoshida, Hoyler Gracie, Eddie Bravo. Like, learn jih Tzu from small people because they're all technique. They can't muscle out of things. You learn Brazilian jihisers are from some big giant motherfucker. Like, their game is going to be so different because they're so strong.

Right. But, like, look at the Samba guys. Look at the Makhs and Khabibs. like that's the game of no ghee that's no ghee it's like their no geem is finally polished

finally it's not going to help them to wear a ghee their game wouldn't be better like Habib's game wouldn't have been better it's all top you never see these guys on their back in guard it's a different it's a different speed it's jiu jitzu

it's a different different game what they do small small changes on the locks like we were saying with the darts choke grabbing your forearm they do things a little bit different, man. Even their wrestling is different. It's not collegiate,

fundamental wrestling that you would teach at a wrestling camp. It's just chain wrestling that they kind of developed and have their own style, man. It's different. It really is interesting. And then, you know, when I've talked to Daniel, he's like, dude, I've seen it could be put it on, like high-level amateur

wrestlers in the gym. Put it on them. And I believe it, too. I mean, he's just, his discipline. When he was in his prime, man, his discipline, was just above and beyond. His discipline, his drive, his focus. And there's something to be said for those guys, too, because they're super religious.

So there's no partying, there's no drinking, there's no chasing women, there's no bullshit, it's just drive, drive, drive, drive. Right. You know, in that collecting the legs that he does with a triangle underneath the legs when he's mount. Against a fence? So hard to get out of that. Everybody's doing it now.

You know the wrist ride, the handcuff he's doing, everybody's doing it. Yeah. I mean, it's been really interesting to watch, like, these dominant forces come along and, like, sort of remap the landscape of the game, you know, and we've seen it with them. Especially in such a high-stakes game. How do you do it that many times without catching a heel to the face, without catching a knee, you know, the guys he's fought so many dangerous guys, he's just drowned them, you know? I know. Well, you know, Islam got caught in that one fight and got knocked out.

Adirano Martinez. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. but it just shows you as a human being. Yeah, it can happen to anyone. It can happen to anybody. And the Glacin-Tibau fight with Khabi.

I feel like Glacin won that fight. Oh, man, I know a lot of people always talk about that. I feel like Glacin won that fight. Me and Tebow have been training partners for so. We beat each other up so much. He's such a fun guy, man. Glees is such a good dude. He's another guy.

Like, how the fuck are you 155? So much energy, dude. Never complains about anything. He could have a 50-pound weight cuts smiling in the sauna. Just happy to be here. He just hope both teams have. Have fun. That's awesome.

Yeah. That's awesome. Just a happy go guy, man. I watched that fight again because I was like, am I talking out of school? Should I shut the fuck up? And I watched it again. I go, no. I think he won.

Was it a split? I don't remember. I don't remember if it was split. But he was stopping takedowns. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was a tank. That guy was a tank. He was big.

He was big and jacked. Dude, probably 5-8, 5-7. Looked a little saucy. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know either.

I don't know. Skillful. Super skillful. You know, solid striking, solid jujitsu. Oh, great jihitsu. Very good. Everywhere. Black Belt and Jiu Jitsu is strong as fuck.

And just, you know. They knew from an early age because I think his middle name is Hercolino. I'm serious. That's hilarious. Yeah. Herculino. Herculino. Brazilians have some of the fun.

Yeah, he might have eight names, you know. I bet. Yeah. Yeah. Gleason Tebaa, Alves, Herculino, a few other things that I'm missing, I'm sure. I'm serious, though. Johnny Gleason, maybe, Tebow. I don't know. He has a few names. That's fun.

I'm being serious. Really? He's got a bunch of names that nobody knows? That's hilarious, man. Well, an American top team, man, you probably have seen more elite talent come through those doors. Shout out to Dan Lampert. Well, Dan's a man. That motherfucker put the money in.

Put the time in when there was no money to be. made. There was none. That guy was He just loved it. It was a passion thing. And just like what we said with the UFC, we need a rich guy to come along and just throw the money at it. That's what Dan did with American Top Team. I remember when he was putting together the new

American Top Team facilities and you show me we're going to have dorms. We're going to have this. I'm like, I was like, this dude is trying to go broke. Like, what do you doing? Dude, it's huge. And that area's crazy expensive. It's on a huge piece of land. I need to get Dan in here. For sure. I talked to him about it before, but he deserves

he deserves a credit because that guy... And dude, honestly, like, him building the gym and asking fighters for 5%, which is, you know, crazy, unheard of, other gyms are taking crazy amounts. You know, he's giving you all these amenities, he's giving you a place to stay. At one point, he had houses as well,

fighter houses that he bought, and he would put fighters up in the houses for camps and stuff. Dude, I've heard of him paying, covering medical bills that fighters didn't have money for, never getting paid back. Yeah. Like, all time. He's done so much stuff, man.

Yeah. Good for the sport. A solid guy. Amazing for the sport. And if he didn't put together that super gym, who knows how many of these super gyms would have ever evolved? Because he kind of set the blueprint for what a gym could be. To this day, that's still the best gym in the world in terms of like super gyms.

I mean, there's just so much knowledge, man. Right. So much knowledge, so much equipment. It's so big. It's so well made. And you never know who's going to be on the mat. At any time you walk in and do an MMA class, there's literally thousands.

of mixed martial arts about experience on the mat any time. Was Robbie his first world champion? I was there

for every camp when Robbie came over. I feel like it might have been like everybody was like Dan Lambert deserves a world champion. Someone's got to be

a world champion. Robbie might have been the first dude. I think it might have been the first. I mean Mike Brown was WC. Yeah.

There's been but UFC champion UFC champion. UFC. Champion. UFS. Robbie Lawler was number one.

I remember when he came over man. Hey, how was Pantosia? Do you know? How his elbow is? I don't know how the injury is,

but it has to be bad if they're skipping him and going with this other title fight. I know. I was there like two weeks ago, I went down to help some buddies. I spent a week there. I didn't see Pantoja at all, so. It was so nasty,

but what was really weird was, like, when Megan Olivie was talking to us, they were saying that he dislocated his shoulder. And I was like, what? What are you talking about? His elbow went out. Like, I'm watching his elbow go out. Yeah, it looked like the elbow.

And they said, no, but I think they, the doctor had misspoke. And I'm 99% sure that it was actually the elbow that went out. Because the elbow clearly moves and it caves in and gives out. Right. And when that happens, ligaments, muscles, everything gets damaged, but I just don't know the extent. Well, it's too bad because also Pantosia's older. And he's older and dominant in fly weight, which is very hard to do.

It sucks at any time to see a fight in like that. Terrible. And especially a title fight. Especially a title fight, especially on the streak he was on, defending the belt. Like, it just, fuck, man. Not just that. And he's such a hard worker and such a quiet guy and just a good dude, you know. He's a fucking savage, too.

I think he's one of the greatest of all time. In the post fight, Dana said something about the shoulder also. They popped his shoulder back in. I thought it was the elbow. Well, it was the elbow. It says it was not the elbow. It was his shoulder. It's his elbow as well, though.

It's got to be. That's weird. Yeah, follow-up posted there was no ligament damage, but I was trying to find updated. So even if there's no ligament damage, it could be cartilage damage. Oh, yeah, yeah. A lot of other shit. Anytime something. bends the weight it's not supposed to.

Soft tissues damage. His weight and Joshua Vans weight all on one arm posted and that arm gives out. But damn, dude, when he fought that Japanese cat, who was that guy? Ran through him. When Pantosha did? Yeah. Like, you just see how good he is. When he fought Kai Kar-France ran through him, I was like, this dude is on fire right now.

No, he's good, man. He's on fire. I think Pantosia is one of the best of all time. And dude, not loud, not flashy, quiet. He'll walk in the gym, go be in practice, you won't notice him. Just working, always. Just working. Just working. Yeah, just fucking focused.

Just a soldier. I love to see that, though, man, because, like, a few years before he was the, I mean, the flyway champion, he was driving Uber or Uber eats, like just trying to make, you know, scrapping to get bills paid. And you see a guy because, that's what makes fighting so special, though. You know, like Teddy Atlas has a speech about it, but it's like, where else can you be from any discipline, any creed, anything, any background,

and call yourself the world, the champion of the world. It's true. So powerful. In any given night, you can go against the odds and be a Buster Douglas or be a Uber East driver and be the world champion a couple years later. It's just special, man. Fighting combat is special.

It is special and it is the end-all of all sports. Like if someone shoots a basket and they make a three-pointer on you, you're like, okay, but I can still fuck you up. You know, no one says after you fuck them up, yeah, but I could score a basket on you. No one cares. Dude, it's the end of all sports. The end of all, everything, the best middle school comeback. Somebody can't beat me, though.

Can't beat me, though. That was like they come back for anything. Can't beat me, though. Like, that's the top of the line. The top challenge. Exactly. The top challenge. Doesn't matter if you're better at backgammon.

Right. Yeah, you dunked on me, but I'll beat your ass. Yeah, beating someone's ass is the end goal. That's what all sports aspire to be is combat sports. So do you have plans for stuff you want to do outside of fighting now? Like now that you're retired

and now you're settling in? Be a good dad, be a good husband. That's my goals always. But I have a few other businesses, you know, I've had for years. I got a documentary. You got a great hot sauce. Got a great hot sauce.

That hot sauce is legit, dude. Thank you, man. It's legit. Porier's Louisiana-style hot sauce. It's not white labor. We made this. It's very good, dude. It's very good.

Thank you. I'm proud of it. I'm proud of it. Yeah. When you sent it to me, I was like, okay, I'll try it. I'm like, oh, shit. It's legit. Vinegar-based.

Vinegar-based cayenne pepper. Very good. Yeah. Very good hot sauce. Thank you, man. I put a little celery in there. You can tell you put some work into that. Yeah, I didn't want it to be.

There's so many vinegar-based hot sauces on the shelf. You know, you get lost in that. And the shelf space is so hard to get. I'm learning all this business stuff as I've moved forward, you know. And now that I'm done fighting, I get to really see where the hot sauce is because every fight, every promotion, I got to talk about it. And sales always around every fight were great. But now we're going to level off and see what kind of stride we have. Well, it's legit, man.

I recommend it highly. Thank you, man. Very good. Besides that, I have a few businesses in Lafayette, and I'm really getting excited to have a documentary coming out this year. The same guys who made my first documentary, Fightville. I don't know if you've seen it. It came out in 2011. It was on Netflix.

actually did a premiere here at South by Southwest, Showtime picked it up, but the same company that did that, Pepper and Bones, is doing my retirement documentary. So they did the whole last training camp filmed. They live in Germany, so they would fly down, stay in camp.

They did the whole fight week in New Orleans. Then they came back down for Thanksgiving, this recent Thanksgiving, and finished up the documentary. And they have hundreds of hours of footage unreleased from when I was 17, 18 years old. Whoa. So they got the whole journey.

Whoa. Just randomly, this guy was filming a war veteran who turned, he was doing a, him and his wife were documentary makers. And they were following this guy who just got back from the Middle East. And he happened to be a fighter. And I met the guy at a fight show. I fought on. He was filming the other guy for a war film, started talking.

Then he just, man, I'm interested in you. Let me start, started filming me. And then, dude, now I have all this hundreds of hours of footage of me fighting. amateur, small shows behind the scenes at my house, like as a kid. Oh, that's incredible. Yeah, so we're going to put it all into this documentary. Dude, that's awesome. That's amazing.

Well, listen, brother, whatever you do, you know, if you put the same energy that you put into becoming a great fighter, you'd be great at anything you do. That's just the beautiful thing about doing the most difficult thing is everything else is definitely going to be easier. I want to go back to the difficult thing, though. I don't want the easy path, man. It's so hard to let it go, right? It's hard to be as, like I tell my,

wife. I say this a lot. I'm fucking be a civilian to go from fight life every day for so long to be in a civilian. It's like I'm relearning who I am. Maybe a couple boxing matches. Maybe the UFC let you out. I would love to. Do you think the UFC let you out of contract do some boxing matches? Nope, I don't think so.

Unless the pot was big enough to where, I don't think so. Oh, they should. But I'm not fucking fighting Floyd Mayweather. The pot ain't going to be big enough. Right. You know? Because there was a Russian company that wanted me and Nate to box. Oh.

And the UFC said no? I didn't even bring it to him. Ariel Hohani hit me up and said, hey, any interest in this? I have interest, but I didn't want to bring it to Hunter and Dana. I didn't even want to ask them. Give it a try. Yeah. Give it a try.

See what happens after this name. I tried to do the benefit. I tried to, let's do it in Zufo boxing. Yeah, that's silly that they don't want to do any crossovers. But I get it. Dude, I don't know if I want any more head trauma either, Joe. Yeah. Yeah, I want to raise my son and my daughter.

That's true, too. That's true, too. I have 50-something fights. Right. That's true. too. Maybe just let it go. It'll never be gone. Keep it in the back of your head,

just work out. It'll never be gone. I want to take care of my head. I'm never going to stop. I'm never going to stop. I hope Williams there tonight. Yeah, he'll be there tonight. I didn't message him. Oh, he was there. William Montgomery. Shout out to William. I didn't even catch that you were saying that when you were jumping guillotine. Oh, in Miami?

Never going to stop. I didn't realize that. And then everybody online told me, oh, he's doing William Montgomery. I was like, oh my God. How did I miss that? I was 100% doing movie Montgomery, but also I give you the benefit of the doubt. My delivery was kind of bad. It wasn't the exact.

I was just so focused. When I'm doing post-fight interviews, I'm just always so focused in trying to get everything out of the fighter that they want to say. All I'm thinking of is, what can I ask him that can help them better express themselves after this big victory? Yeah.

You know, so it's like... I was the underdog, and Mike, every time I went to the corner, he's like, stop jumping guillotines. You're giving up takedowns. You're not going to get, cut it out, don't do it. I'm like, Was that the Benwant on the evening?

Never gonna stop, yeah. That was a great victory too, man. That was a good one. Yeah, with the streak he's on, this aging, aging well. Aging well, man. Very well. Listen, brother, you're an all-time great.

It's an honor. It's so cool to have you here again. Thank you for having. And congratulations on an amazing career. Thank you, Jim. And like I said, you're going to kill it whatever you do. Whatever you do in life.

Try to be cut. I'm going to try to do the desk work and see where that goes, man. Yes, and buy his hot sauce. It's legit. You heard? All right. Thanks, sir.

Bye, everybody. Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything. Like packing a spare stick. I like to be prepared. That's why I remember 988, Canada's suicide crisis helpline. It's good to know, just in case. Anyone can call or text for free confidential support from a train responder any time. 988 suicide crisis helpline is funded by the government in Canada.