The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #183 with Rico Verhoeven

Episode Date: August 4, 2026

Joe sits down with professional boxer, kickboxer, and mixed martial artist Rico Verhoeven.www.youtube.com/@RicoVerhoeven  https://ricoverhoeven.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joe Rogan podcast, checking out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Good to see you, champ. Yes, sir. We were just trying to figure out how long it's been. What year, when was the last one we did together? I think it was 2017.

Almost 10 years. Yeah. Or might have been 16. Yeah, I think. Was it really? No. No. No.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that's crazy. The data. He's got her. I was like, maybe we just got punched to the head a little bit too much. A little bit.

Well, listen, man, I want to tell you that that fight with Ussick was one of the craziest things that I've ever seen in my life. Never in my life did I think a guy who would go straight from kickboxing. Did you have any professional boxing matches?

One. One. One professional. I've been boxing for 15 years. Of course. Well, also. you're arguably the greatest kickboxer of all time. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that.

And you have a fight with arguably the greatest boxer in the heavyweight division ever. He's in the conversation. 100% in the conversation of the greatest boxer in the heavyweight division ever. And you won 10 fucking rounds, man.

You won 10 rounds. Close to that. Yeah. I mean, I don't give a fuck what those judges were saying. Those judges were trying to say it was close. Like it was almost like you were up. I think one of them had you up by one round and the other ones had a draw. Yeah, I think that's... That's a crime.

If that went to scorecards and somehow another you lost that decision, that would have been a crime, a crime. I know, and I got to be honest, I think, like, we're straight jumping into it. And, like, I think that's the hard part of it. Like, I don't like losing, but I don't... If it happens, it happens. but I think that's the part that that makes it even harder

that it felt so unjust and... It felt unjust. The stoppage felt unjust. It didn't seem like it made sense. It looks like they were looking for a way to stop the fight. Exactly, but next to that like you say this as a combatant for years and you've been in the sport for so many years and all other professional boxer and accommodators, et cetera.

They all see the fight a certain way. Like you saw it, like how I experienced it. And then when we look at the scorecards, we get like a totally different fight. Like what is going on there? And that is for me where the toughness is of the whole experience. Right. It's very difficult to accept.

And if you had lost by decision, it would have been insanity. And we've seen those insane decisions. before and I never know what's going on. You know, I don't want to think it's corruption, but it's almost worse if it's incompetence. If you have someone who's judging a fight, which is like the most pivotal fight, arguably, of your career, you think about how long you've been reigning

as the heavyweight champion of kickboxing for like a decade, which is crazy at the highest level. Like, especially at the heavyweight division, it is so hard to stay at the top. Nobody does. Everybody's like, even in the UFC, It's like one, two fights, and then they fall off. If you be the heavyweight champion and have fucking wars, like Jamal Ben Sadiq, that fight,

like some of these fights, you've had wars. And to come out on top every single fucking time. And then you have this enormous fight, and you have terrible judging. Terrible judging. And it's like, it's almost worse if it's incompetence because if you've got these people that don't know what they're watching and their calling, like their eyes, their decision makes a difference about whether it's a W or an L, and it doesn't make any sense. It's not fair.

It's not right. I think at this point in time, they should really seriously consider having alternative scoring. I think there should be more. One of the things I like about glory is that glory has more than three judges. What do they have? Four or five? Five, I believe. Five.

I think five is the right number. I think three is too few. Yeah. Because you could have two people fuck it up and one person gets it right. And then, but if you had two more judges, the odds are they're going to get it right too. But usually the people that fuck it up, it's the minority. Yeah. But if you ask me, like, next to us as athletes putting our health on the line, which makes it very, very hard thing to cope with.

But also for the people watching the fight. Right. It's like, like you said, it feels unjust. And I definitely feel like, especially in the time that we're in now, everybody wants transparency. If we look at the World Cup that just finished, like even there, when something happens, the referee is still a person. He can make like a mistake. He can look at the foul and he's like, I saw it this way. But now what they're doing, they're looking at the var.

They're looking at the cameras. Right. And multiple people are looking at it and like, hey, we can interpret it the rules like this. Because this happened, we can see this and this is wrong. So even it's going to be a card or it's going to be a penalty or whatever. This is what's happening. But within this situation, it's just like, if you ask me, and it's still possible, it's a human being, the referee, made a mistake

and that is possible but there should be people or a situation where it's like hey sorry ref but you made a mistake this wasn't the right call so we can overturn it in split of a second

the only thing that's really hard to do with that subjectively is fight stoppages because sometimes at least in MMA a referee sees things in a fighter that you might not see things watching on television

or sitting at my seat as a commentator, a referee will see a guy's eyes roll back in his head. He'll see something that I don't see, and I'll go, oh, I thought that was a little quick. But they're right on top of it. They see certain things that you might not be able to see. Yeah, but that's the thing.

I appealed it. I appealed it. And everything we appealed upon, we got, they said like, you guys were right. We got stopped after the bell. Yes. right after the, after the stoppage, the doctor came. I wasn't disorientated.

I didn't have no concussion or whatever symptoms. So everything we got, they're like, no, you're right, you're right, you're right. But they never overturned. They never overturned nothing. Also, how would they overturn it? Would they go to the judge's scorecards? And if they did go to the judge's scorecards, what would it be a majority draw? because if you are down

or you're even on both cards and then up on one and then did they count the knockdowns in the final round? Because if they did, you might have lost that fight which is even crazier. Yeah.

But then you have something like, hey, guys, let's look at the scoring cards again and that other people, other judges look at the score cards and look at the fight and score it again because... Well, here's what you know it's crazy. It's the most competitive fight of Ussie's career as a heavyweight champion. Yeah.

And they're not even talking at all about a rematch. No. That's kind of... This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the home of my website, joe rogan.com. If you want to level up your business, you've got to improve your website. Squarespace gives you everything you need to get a fully custom website. Offer services, sell products, and get paid all in one place. Go to Squarespace.com slash Rogan for a free trial.

And when you are ready to launch, use code Rogan to get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Twizzlers keep the fun going. Yeah, I know. I just stopped whatever you were listening to to tell you that Twizzlers keep the fun going. Well, irony isn't my forte. but twisty, chewy, yummy Twizzler sure is. So think of Twizzlers as a little palette cleanser for whatever's queued up,

which, by the way, should be coming very soon. Like any second now. Okay, Twizzlers, time to keep the fun going. Crazy, right? Isn't that kind of crazy? They're saying Deonté Wilder, which all love to Deontay, but Deontay is not Deontay Wilder of 2019.

No. He's a different guy now. That's a good thing that you just brought that up because before this fight, you heard the whole conversation, okay, we're going to do Rico. After that, we want to fight the winner of Dubois Awardly, and after that I want to fight Tyson Fury again. Right.

The other two are not in the conversation anymore. So without taking too much credit for it, I think with this fight he saw like, hmm, this was a little harder than I expected. Yeah. So let's take a different route. And for me, I don't want a rematch just to have the rematch. I would like the rematch because it makes sense.

There's a story within this rematch. It's huge. And it's something that it is unfinished business. Yes. It's a Rocky store. A real live Rocky story. 100%. And that's why for me, where I'm looking at now, I'm like in the fall of my,

or maybe in the winter of my career as an athlete. And I just want to do big fights that make sense. And then you're like, ooh, this is what I want to see. Well, not only that as a promoter. What makes more sense than that fight? Yeah. The Deonté Wilder fight, again, all respect to Deonti. I love that guy.

He's one of the greatest knockout artists in the history of the heavyweight division. He's not the same guy. No. He's not the same guy. For whatever reason. It happens to everybody, right? I think he's 40 now, right? Yeah.

It happens to everybody. You just got off of a career. crazy performance. Yeah. And the whole world got to see it. If any fight warrants a rematch, it's that fight. Yeah. That fucking rematch would be gigantic.

It would be so huge. It's the ultimate Rocky story. I was watching that fight on the edge of my seat. Oh, I love it. The fight starts, I'm like, how's this going to go down? How's it's going to go down? I'm like, whoa. First of all, I'm like, holy shit, Rico's fucking huge.

You realize how big you are. And, you know, Ussick is a cruiserweight. He's a cruiserweight to put on weight. He could still make cruiser. If he wanted to, if he wanted to get really lean, he could still make cruiser easily. You're way bigger than him. I'm like, that's a giant factor. And then it's your experience, your world championship level experience.

You've been in so many big fights. 100%. You look so calm and so relaxed and so in the moment. And I was like, holy shit, he might pull it off. And then it got into like the third, fourth and fifth round. I'm like, I don't see this changing. I'm like, this is crazy. If you hear the commentators, they were like, okay, Rico's moving a lot and he's fainting and he's doing this and he's doing that.

But how long can he keep this up? Well, they don't know about your cardio. Exactly. There was one commentator that also commentated for Glory. Well, Alster. Alster was there. Yeah, he was also there. He was also there.

But the commentator for Glory that he knew, like, that cardio-wise, I live in the gym. That's what it. And you know as well. Like, I love this. So I don't, I'm never going to lose on, on cardio because then I lose for myself. No, you're an anomaly in terms of like 260 pound men. Yeah. There's very few guys that are as big as you that push a pace like you did.

So I wasn't, when they were saying that, I was like, you guys, you know, you guys don't understand what you're seeing here. He's going to be able to do this all night long. Yeah. And, you know, credit to Usik for finally catching you and rocking you, but the fight was stopped too quickly. It just was. Yeah, 100%.

You were still okay. You got in a world championship fight that's that close. Not even really that close. You were that far ahead. You got to give someone a chance. Yeah, but let's reverse it. Right. What if he was in this position?

There's no way they would stop that fight. No way. Look, it's either incompetence or corruption. And I tend to think corruption. This is like, I think these guys want to keep judging fights and they want the favor of the promoters and the money is in Usik. Usik is a huge name.

He's their big star in the heavyweight division. They don't want like a guy coming in from a different sport. One professional boxing box. Exactly. And making the biggest upset in boxing history. That would be pretty crazy. It really almost was the biggest upset in boxing history. I mean, it was crazy.

It was really crazy to watch, man. But you were the perfect. guy to do it because of the pace thing because of the fact that you are so big and you can push that insane pace and keep it up for the 12 rounds and also game plan wise we were so smart on the game plan we did something that he has not seen before that he has not experienced before even though he fought the best boxes in the world but all the boxes what they were trying to do is outbox the heavyweight boxers we're trying to outbox a cruiserweight how in the the hell are you going to do that he's lighter he's smaller and he's faster so how are you going to

and he's super technical exactly so how are you going to outbox him did you just you just got to have a super strong game plan and that's what we had so what when you looked at it when you first got the offer first of all how far out did you get the offer how far out away from the fight how much time did you have to prepare well did did you did you do you know the story how i got into this whole thing no Okay. No. It's a crazy story. Okay, let me tell you.

So it all started with the Canello Crawford fight. And Jason Statham is a good friend of mine. And I saw he was in Vegas for that fight. So I texted him. He was like, yo, you were there for that fight? Oh my God, yeah, this is going to be crazy. So we went back and forth. And he's like, yeah, brother.

So he told me, brother, you need to be in boxing because he was at the tournament. when the eight-man tournament a few years ago so he comes to my fights and he's like oh you you gotta be in here you gotta kill these guys I said yeah yeah I think I could do pretty good

he's like you know what I'm gonna throw it out there and let's see what happens okay so that was let me see there was Vegas time during the day so Amsterdam time it was night time so the next morning I'm on the treadmill I'm running

the phone ring Jason. So, yo, bro, I'm on the trip, but let me call you back. Listen, I put your name out there. I showed your videos, and they're going crazy. They want you. So I jumped off. I was like, what do you mean? They said, they want to do something. They're going to call you. I gave them your contact. Like, okay. So that's how it started. A few days later, they called me. RICO, we want you to fight, blah, blah, blah. We love what you do. and we want you to fight Anthony Joshua. So I'm like, okay, let's go.

I'm ready for this opportunity. But I was on the set of Roadhouse 2. So it was like, oh shit, now we've got to combine everything. I've got my trainer coming in like during, yeah, during takes and like, okay, we do some padwork. And then finally, we were supposed to fight in February. So I think the deal came around October. October, November. So I had like around 10, 10 good weeks to train.

And then finally, I finish off the movie in December. And he, but in between, Joshua got the offer to fight Jake Paul for a crazy amount of money. He was like, of course, I'm going to do that. And then after that, I'm going to do the Rico fight. Perfect. Okay, he does the Jake Paul fight. Well, that went, like how it went. And then they reached out like, can we push the fight a little bit instead of February to March?

Like, I'm good. The more time I get, the better. Right. So to train. To transition into boxing. So that happened. And then the end of the year, like two weeks later, that tragic accident happens. So there was.

Yeah, we're talking about Anthony Joshua. He was in Africa. Terrible car accident. Yeah, terrible. Yeah, terrible. So that derailed. that whole situation, but I had a whole training plan schedule. I was going to Spain to train there for a month, but I didn't know what was going to happen.

So I just did what I had to do, and I just continued training. So I was in Spain, training, training, training, training. And then at the end of that training camp, we were talking about it. And they said, like, yeah, we don't think, and also with this manager, Eddie Hearn, like, I don't know if he's going to be back soon. So what do you want to do? You want to wait or you want to fight? I'm already training, so I would like to fight somebody,

but we don't know what makes sense. No, let's think about it. So we thought about it, we thought about it, they thought about it. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Once you've got a great name for your business, you need a great domain. And Squarespace makes it easy to lock in a domain. You just search the name you want, buy it,

and then you're ready to build. No hidden fees, no weird upsells. Go to Squarespace. slash Rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the code Rogan to get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. And then we were talking about, hey, what about Ousick? Does that make sense? Was it your idea?

Yeah, it was our idea. I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. Why not? Because he's the top dog. It's like undisputed kickboxing champion versus the undisputed boxing champion. Like, there's a story there. Yeah. It's like, let's just throw it out there and let's see what they say.

okay pick up the phone call them yo guys we have an idea so I pitched him the whole idea undisputed

versus undisputed silence oh my God what did I just do then the first thing I hear back we love it whoa

I said okay what does that mean what does that mean so That he said, you know what? We're going to talk to Ussk's team and we're going to come back to you. And then in two weeks they went to Uzek. Uzek loved the idea as well.

So again, big shout out to him for taking that fight as well because he had hundreds of options and he took this fight outside the box. So I love it also to His Excellency, Turkey, Elashik, for setting this whole thing up. Oh, he has set up so many great fights. He's so important to boxing right now? Super much respect for both of them and thankful. Also to Jason, of course, for setting this whole thing up.

Shout to Jason. Yeah, and getting me into the conversation. And then, like, so that was after two weeks. And then two weeks later, we were on a FaceTime call for like a minute. And, yeah, after that, they got it done. Wow. And then afterwards, they said, like, oh, it's going to be a title fight. And then the whole world went crazy, of course.

Like, oh, my God, how is this guy going to go for a world title fight? It doesn't make any sense. I was just like, let's go. We're going. I was shocked the world. Well, you know, it's not like you hadn't had a lifetime of striking. It's only the difference is removing the kicks. Yeah, but the thing is, like the boxing fans, the straight up boxing fans,

they're not too much into MMA and they're definitely not into kickboxing. Right. So they had no clue. Right. They had no clue of like, who is this guy? What did he do? And that's why also the WBC, they also had their... Muay Thai department so for them it made sense it's like hey Rico with his credentials and what he

did into into in kickboxing it makes sense to make it a world championship fight but we just have to tell the people well you know it drives me nuts as a fan of combat sports is also a giant fan of kickboxing yeah kickboxing does not get the love that it deserves in america it doesn't make any sense because in m m m.a the casual fans love stand stand up and when fights go to the ground, they boo. So it makes no sense to me how you have boxing huge, MMA huge, kickboxing almost non-existent in America. There's no big kickboxing leagues.

No, but maybe because they want to see their own people win maybe? No. No, it just hasn't been promoted, right? It doesn't make any sense. It makes no sense because their own people don't win in MMA. I mean, there's very few American champions. There's Justin Gaichi and Sean Strickland. Yeah, but at least they're really competitive.

And in keyboxing, they're... Right. That's true, but we don't care, honestly. In the MMA, no. I mean, Alex Pereira was the biggest star in the sport. Also in keyboxing, yeah. Yeah, exactly. But Brazilian doesn't speak English at all.

Only speaks Portuguese. And whatever other language is tribal language. And so then you have Islamakachev was fighting next weekend. Huge star, you know, from Dagestan. In America, all they care, are you the baddest motherfucker on earth? That's all they care. And I really genuinely believe that if someone came along, like, I really wish Zufa would do it. Yeah.

Because they're doing it with boxing. They should do it with kickboxing. Because kickboxing or more time, whichever they decide, you know, I think is the most exciting stand-up sport in the world. I don't think it's even close. 100%. I love glory. I fucking watch it all the time. I watch all the events.

It's so exciting, man. It's so fun. And the fights are so chaotic And if you're a fan As brutal Brutal and technical At the same time I mean

Some of the most amazing fights I mean that's how I knew about Pereiros Because I was such a huge fan of glory Yeah When he came over to the UFC I was like Everyone's fucked I'm like you don't understand

Everyone's fucked This guy's different man Yeah he is He's different He's amazing But it was because I knew him So much from kickboxing And he was so exciting

In kickboxing I'm like Kickboxing should be huge in America It should be It really should be. Yeah, 100%. 100%.

And it's a part of MMA. So I think a lot of guys... A giant part of MMA. The most exciting part of MMA is the kickboxing, for sure. Yeah, 100%. It makes no sense. It is an untapped market. There's somebody figured it out and dove in and made it, it would be gigantic.

It would have to be like the UFC, though, because you have to have the kind of publicity machine, the kind of media machine that the UFC has. Yeah. To build up the stories and show these guys and show like all the champions. 100%. But I think that's in every big fight and every big organization is where the strength is, is the storytelling. Yes. That is where I think where.

And also, if you ask me, like when I was in glory, where it lacked on experience, like the storytelling. Right. Where does this guy come from? What is his background? And like you want to get to know the person instead of just like, the guy that throws punches and kicks. Exactly. The UFC does an awesome job with that. They have a whole series called Embedded.

So, like next week when Ian Gary, Islamakatchew fight takes place, they're going to have one on Monday. So you get up a Monday morning. It'll be there on YouTube and everybody will watch it. And they're like, oh, shit, you watch that one. And you watch the one on Tuesday. You see them training, you see them eating. You see them in a sauna cutting weight.

You see them doing all their press stuff. You see them. And you get hyped, man. Exactly. But you get drawn into like, oh, this is the guy behind the fighter. Exactly. And I think that's so much more interesting. And then they have the countdown show, which is an hour.

The countdown shows, like, highly produced and all this different stuff. So dope. Interviews and conversations with their family. It's fucking amazing. And it just gets you so jazzed up for the fight. If the UFC did something like that with kickboxing, I think it would be gigantic. You know, they tried Glory in America for a while. And he was doing pretty good on Spike TV, remember?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like they had the last man standing tournament in Los Angeles. I went to that. It was awesome. It just never fucking caught on. No. It was hard. It was too bad.

And then after the last few years, we were just in Europe, more in the Netherlands. That's where we, yeah, in glory. One is doing a good job with kickboxing. One FC and... I don't know. You don't know about them? No. Yeah, I know about them, but I don't know if they're doing good or not.

No, I don't know if they're doing good or not. Especially in the lighter weight divisions because they get a lot of guys from Thailand and a lot of guys from Japan. Yeah, but they're more Asian-based, right? They're not... Yes, yes, more Asian-based. But they have a lot of stand-up fights now. A lot of, like, either... They have Muay Thai with MMA gloves on.

Yeah, in a cage, brutal. And then they're also having kickboxing in a cage. And kickboxing in a ring. They mix it up between rings and cage. Yeah, I mean, I personally think the ring is better. I really do. Because I think that there's a lot of weird stuff with the cage. You know, like the cage...

especially with MMA, I don't like it, because you could use it to get back up. Yeah. You could, like, get your back against it and pull yourself back up. He could also use it to take people down. It's harder to take people down with the ring, I believe. Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, so, but that's why it's good for me now. Like, yeah. I know there was a talk. It was a talk about you fighting Derek Lewis. Yeah, there was. I remember that. And then you got this offer to box and it was so much money at it. The Joshua fights first.

Oh, that's a talk. right the dodge that's where it started so yeah so we were in talks uh because i was a free agent i vacated the belt how many mma fights you have you at least one one one yeah just one i did some grappling years ago but i just have one one professional mhm a fight so so after that vacating my my belt i was a free agent so we're like okay let's yeah dip our toes in different water let's see yeah let's see what's what's on the landscape now why did you decide to vacate you the belt because you had done everything you needed to do. I did it all.

You cleaned out the division. I did it all. So I was like I wanted it to make sense. And first we talked within the organization of like, hey, I'm looking to do big stuff, different stuff. So like crossover events because that was getting more and more talked about, like the big crossover events. And I think, yeah, in my opinion, I am one of the baddest men on the planet. So it made sense to do it. But then, yeah, within the organization management, wrong management, like, we just, yeah,

didn't get to a place where it works out. So I was like, okay, let me just leave it then. So I left it, and then we talked with UFC to see, yeah, what was going on there. But then, yeah, I got the other offer and it made more sense. Now, was the other offer a one contract fight, a one-fight contract? So you're free again. I'm a free agent again. Oh, wow.

So, and that's why. Was there any conversation at all about a rematch? Yeah, right away. His excellency came into the ring and he said, you're going to fight this guy again. That's the first thing he said. But Kau also came into the ring. Ajit Kauwyao, the WBC interim champion

and now the champion, because Uzek vacated the belt as well. So he also wanted his shot So there was like a lot of talk And like at that moment I was there but it was just like I don't know Chaos Yeah chaos and for me I was just like wow

Did this? They just fucked too Yeah Did this really just happen And it took It took me like At least six weeks Before I watched the fight back

For the very first time After the fight Wow Because it's it still hurts So So yeah, so now I'm like a free agent and we got so many offers now. What is it like watching it and watching the fight get stopped after the bell? It still hurts.

It still hurts. I'm like, wow, what did you want me to do? You want me to move around? Did you want me to punch back or whatever? For me, like, you know, I've been in trouble multiple times within my world title kickboxing fights. I was behind multiple times and I still came out on top So

There was For me there's no conversation in like Okay Could he continue? Is he going to continue? I never stop They don't know you Exactly The thing is the conditioning thing

Like your conditioning is so good You bounce back so quick And there's been so many times Where guys try to empty the tank To put you out And you're not going nowhere No And it was just a few seconds

And a referee should know that. So next to that, like with all the experience you know that I have within the combat sports, like it's just a few seconds, let it go and let me at least give me the opportunity and give the fans the opportunity to see that 12th round. Right. So, oh, it would have been so exciting. Yeah.

Oh, my God. But also, looking now, looking back at it, because there was also open scoring. And I love open scoring. Because within that gives you. the right position and gives the fighters the position like okay where are where we're standing within this fight but now looking back at the fight after eight rounds because after every four rounds we hear what the scoring is after eight rounds my trainer peter fury says okay we got to really start winning these rounds now i was like what i'm out i was like am i hearing this

right as i feel like i'm already winning these rounds He said, no, we're equal. We're equal on the scorecards after eight rounds. So I was like, okay, so in the ninth round, I started. Even the commentator, so like, what? Yeah, exactly. But then I really started pushing even more. But I was pushing already.

But if you know you're like eight or seven rounds ahead and you feel like you're getting tired, the last two or three rounds, just move around. Yeah. Tip, tap. And maybe you lose it. Maybe it's a draw or whatever. And then still you win. because you were like five rounds ahead,

then it doesn't make any sense. But now we had to keep pushing. And then, oh, it's like walking straight to that upper cut. Like, oh, it still gets me. Oh, when I look back at it, it's like, oh. And then that last part, that's what I find so hard. And I feel like I need to work on that as a human being for myself, as a person.

I can only look at that, at that. One mistake I felt I made at the end because I gave them the opportunity to pull this card. That's what, that's how it feels for me. Mistake being that you push too hard or a mistake. Yeah, the mistake, like there was one mistake that I made running into that upper card, like walking straight in, swinging, and we said in the whole prep, I tried that a few times, like, oh, that's dangerous, don't do that with Lusick. And still, for whatever.

reason I did that at that exact moment and that that's what what frustrates me if I look back at it because I'm only I'm not looking at what he did well because that uppercut was amazing I'm just looking at what I what I'm responsible for and I'm responsible for myself and I gave them now this opportunity by making that mistake and that's like oh so hard to get over that for myself but I need to work on that because I had the same with the Jamal Ben Sadiq with the eye. Everybody's like, oh, Rico, you showed them. You're never giving up.

But I know I got that. I know I got that from the inside, but I never have to show that because the skill set is so, so big that I don't get in trouble. So I don't have to show that I can continue and I'm never giving up. But I can only look at that, oh, that one mistake.

Why did I do that? Then I get the eye. You're so stupid. So I can only look at that. Crazy cut. Yeah. And that guy fucking punches hard. Yeah.

And he's a big fella. Yeah, he's big in the name. Jamal Ben Sadiq is huge. Powerful, powerful, powerful guy. So it's, that's, uh, that's hard for. But I got to work on that for myself. Yeah, but that's also why you're great. Yeah.

I mean, you have to, you have to hate mistakes. Yeah. Like, they're poison. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you got, yeah, yeah, you should have seen me after the fight.

Like I was like a big baby. I was crying in my hotel room. Like a big, big baby. I was like, oh, my God, I was so close of like shocking the world. And now this happened. It was like, oh, it hurts so bad. I can only imagine.

It's a certain extent, but at least you could laugh at it a little bit now. Yeah. I can only imagine. To me, watching it as a fan of yours, I was like, oh my God, he's going to fucking pull it off. I was on the edge of my seat. And when we're going into the ninth and tenth round, so I was like,

see how Usik can win. And then when they started talking about the scorecards, I was like, what the fuck are they watching? This is crazy. They're looking at a different fight. But that's, but for me. Be the corrupt or incompetent. Yeah.

Be the corruptor and if I look at it now and for us talking about it, and for you being so long into combat sports and being a commentator and doing it yourself, wouldn't it be something? Wouldn't you be maybe a spokesman or could you be a part of a way how we can make this whole judging thing and this whole transparency better well i think one way to do it is to have uh more judges like glory does i think five is probably the right number and i think another thing to do is maybe have a bunch of people online that are recognized experts like top trainers

top commentators people people that really understand the sport yeah and maybe they get an app. Maybe there's like a special app that those guys can judge on. So you have a collective expert opinion and you get to look at that as well. But that's what we had now. Like if you look the professionals, the trainers, the commentators, they all saw the fight a certain way, but the judges saw something totally, they were looking at a different fight for some kind of reason. And that's crazy. A problem like we talked about. It's either incompetence or it's corruption. and I think it might be a little bit of both. Yeah.

And I think maybe the corruption isn't even conscious, but it's like they know who the promoter wants to win. They want Ussick to win because Usoc is where you can get the next Tyson Fury fight or the Anthony Joshua, well, not Anthony Joshua, but whoever he would decide to fight, you know, again. Yeah. And now it's going to be Deonté Wilder, which nobody's called for. I don't know. I don't know if it's going to happen.

Where is that signed? Can you please find out if the Anthony Joshua, or excuse me, the Deonté Wilder, Alexander Usik fight is signed because people were talking about that being I think they were saying like December or something they were trying for it at least I know that's what I'm trying for but for me

like that's why for now it's not officially signed yet okay a plea to his excellency Turkey Al-Shake this is the fight but here's the question does Usik want that fight that's the question I don't know

I don't think so. A really tough fight like that fight. And then, you know, they ask you to do it again. And it's your last time out. He's calling, I mean, this is his last fight. Yeah. If this is his last fight and he almost lost to you and he has the potential of losing again, they'd have to entice him.

They didn't have to fucking pull out that paper. Pull out that paper. Then he's like, chink, big bag. And he's like, oh, okay, if I lose it, it is what it is. Exactly. to just bring. That's why it's so good for me now to be in this position. I'm a free agent.

We got offers from the biggest organizations across the world, like after this fight. And I'm just like taking my time. What offers did they've given you that's exciting? Can you talk about them? No, no really. No, no, afterwards. Tell me afterwards. Yeah.

No, so they... I know a lot of people talked about you possibly boxing Francis and Gano or having an MMA fight with Francis and Gano. Was that on the table? Yeah, no, so to be honest, like two weeks before the Ussick fight, there was the MVP card, right? But then they approached me like weeks before MVP to MMA versus Francis. And then I was also like right on the edge of like closing the deal with Ucic. And so I had the two options on the table. And yeah, to be honest, like the other, the MMA deal, like they kept on.

like stacking up, stacking up. Like, because, like, okay, what if we give you the... Okay, but what if you give you the... Okay, let me look at this option again. So, but then, yeah, I just look myself in the mirror, like, I respect His Excellency, and Jason gave his word,

and His Excellency gave his word that they were going to do it. And if I look at myself, I'm looking at Legacy, and that Francis Nagano fight is still going to be there after the Usek fight, but how crazy is that as a kickboxer coming in, fighting for a world championship within boxing, and potentially winning, because that's how I...

I only have one plan, and that's winning. So that's how I went into that fight, and we saw how that went, and it was crazy. Didn't you wish you could kick him? No, not really. Not at all? No. Didn't you wish you could just...

A few low kicks? Because that is definitely not going to make... make it to the end. But that was so funny because everybody's like, Rico, you've been kickboxing for so long. Like, what happens if you head kick him? Like, don't you have that feeling? Like, guys, like, I've been boxing next to doing kickboxing,

like for 15 years or something. I've been working with Peter Fury for so long, and I'm used to this. But I know for, I think that's what made me such a good kickboxer as well that I was into boxing. But there's a giant difference between working with. kickboxer and even being a kickboxer and fighting arguably the greatest heavyweight of all time 100% but the crazy thing was I think I think it was around five or six I was like he was jabbing me

I was just ticking it away and I was like bump bump I'm like talking to myself in the fight I'm like am I out jabbing the champ this is crazy and I'm a train how you're training my turn to Dennis Rico, just keep doing what you're doing. You're winning this fight. Let's go, let's go, let's go. Because he also didn't want me to take too many risks. He's like, okay, you won this round and then continue from there because that's how they were experiencing the fight and the rounds on the side.

Well, let me ask you this. When you first started formulating a game plan, did you watch a bunch? I'm sure you're already a fan of Uxx. Yeah, 100%. But did you rewatch them and try to find patterns? How did you formulate this game plan? Of course, with my trainer, Peter Fury, he's crazy. He's the very, very, very best at what he does.

And we were just like analyzing these fights. So first, he already had the thing in his mind. And he asked me, like, what do you see all these boxers do? And what they shouldn't be doing? And what do you think they should do? look at it, I look at it, look at it. And I think it basically started with if somebody is a South Pole, why would you stay right in front of them?

That's one thing. And because you cannot go, if somebody is orthodox, you move to the right. But you cannot move to the right with a South Pole because you're walking straight into a left hand. So why is nobody moving to the left? because then as soon as you move to the left you're walking away from that strong arm

I think that's what we said exactly which is crazy it's just so many people are so stuck in their patterns the way they like to move they like to move to their right that's what they like they feel good they want to move to their right and throw a right hand but you're just running into that power hand it's just crazy that it's not just that too it's also the size difference Like that was one thing. It's like you were so big in that that ring that you were smothering him and you on top of him and you were throwing those shots in tight.

Yeah, but the combination of those two getting him out of that position took away so many, so many of his tools. And then like you said, smothering and getting into him and using my size. Because if you ask me, like all the guys he fought are way, they're my size. They're way bigger than him. Right. But because of the way they thought they couldn't use their size on him, but the way I did it, I could. Tyson Fury did a lot. He used his size a lot, you know, and he's a different kind of big, though.

He's big and long where you're fucking thick. You know, it's a different thing. You're very lean and huge. It's a different, it's like the mass of you when you were on top of him pushing him. You could see that it was a factor. It was like he was recognizing it. it's so hard, like if you look at that fight that you just mentioned, is how are you going to get, he tried to use his size, but how are you going to get close to him walking straight into it?

Because he's, then, he's just going to keep moving. Right. He's going to keep moving because he's so fast on his feet. But that's what we try to do. We try to be faster on our feet and move to the side and then get into it and then get close. Because then as soon as you, he's the sophomore, you keep moving this way and just keep getting closer, somewhere you're going to be there. You're going to reach him.

But it takes some time. And I didn't think, if you look at the heavy weights, what they all want to do is they want to, they want to hit maybe boom, boom, one, two. Versus the very, of arguably one of the best to have ever done it. And then especially in a cruiser rate, how are you going to hit him in step A? Right.

It's going to be at least step B, C, or D when you're going to hit him. You got to have multiple plans. Like, for me, I was just throwing. Throw, throw, throw, throw. And I know I'm going to, I was, the first time I was going to hit him was maybe in punch six or whatever. Because then the distance is going to be closer. So I didn't even think about trying to knock his head off. That's what I said.

I said, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to try and knock his head off. Of course I'm going to tell him that. Because that is definitely not all we're going to do. I was just going to get close. Right. And keep working. Volume.

Keep working volume. And then finally when you're there, that's the moment you're going to put in some power. But that's like maybe punch seven or eight. But the first three, four, you're not even going to hit this. You're just hitting air because he's too fast. Right. He's like a giant Lomachenko.

Exactly. But that's how we thought about it. Don't try and hit him in the first two or three punches. Throw them. So he has something to look at and something. think about and then we're going to get there and as soon as you get there you smother him boom punch him in the body what heavyweight boxers have you worked with over the years all the the top fighters of course that's how i got with peter fury i started with thysen fury

um i trained with uh with arjit kowl because he was also in that uh in that camp back then um Ui Fury, Peter's son. I think he's also, he's been going up and down because of his health, but he's definitely one of the best. And we're going to see more of him because, yeah, he's such a good competitor, such a good boxer as well, great skill set. So there's been a bunch of fighters that would work with. That's so massive.

Because, you know, sharing all that gym time with elite guys like Tyson Fury. you know and colby have having that kind of experience in the gym must have also been a huge confidence boosts too 100%. 100%. Especially now in this whole last thing is trying to get

like good South Pole fighters oh my God that's the hardest thing the hardest thing and then we had one big guy and we had one one smaller guy it was so hard and then mixing that up

so we started off with first six with the big guy, Moses Jolie, and an amazing boxer, but he's big. He's big, he's heavy. He's not an Ucic. He's like twice as big as Uc, but he's a South Pole, so he has that power, and we could really compete, and then after that, we jumped in with James Branch, and he's like 90, 90 kilo South Pole, so he's like, p, p, p, p, shh. He's like, throw a rapid fire punch.

Fuck. So, and that change within sparring. So the first six with one and then six with the other, oh my God, that was next level. It was like six months of pure hard work. Wow. But it was so cool. It was so cool.

And it just opened up my mind to a whole different world. And it's for being in combat sports since I was six. And after all these years saying like, okay, this kickboxing chapter within the book is, I think that's done. That's start a new chapter. Well, there's no big kickboxing fight that can compare with what you just did.

No, exactly. I mean, how old are you now? 38? 37. 37. Yeah. So at that age, like, you've got to, you've got to like look at what you've already accomplished.

Yeah. In kickboxing, there's no fight that everyone's calling out for. Like, oh, you know. It's not like Badrari's in the prime. It's not like one big fight. No, no. So there was like, hey, and especially with the whole crossover fights, being at the biggest attention right now, it's like, hey, I think this is something we got to look at. So after the fight is done, Turkey Alashik comes into the ring, says you guys are going to fight again.

And it's been a couple months now. So what has happened? Do you talk to anybody? Has your management talked to you guys? Yeah, they talked to them because it's been crazy. Like all the biggest organizations reached out, hey, we're looking at this fight, we're looking at that fight. Right. But what about?

What makes sense for us? And that's where I'm looking at now because, like I said, I believe I'm in the winter of my career. So I'm just looking at big fights. Do you have a timeline when you want to get out? no it's not set in stone but let's see let's see

but like I said I feel like I'm so excited I'm so happy and I'm so grateful to be in this position right now so let's yeah make history yeah I mean it's all about legacy right they fucked you over but you did win

you got a big win out of it in that you performed way better than anybody expected and then there's also this element where people are rooting for you because they do think you got fucked over. Yeah, 100%. They think you were getting fucked over in the scoring, and you got fucked over with a stoppage. And so it's very marketable.

And so my question, though, what I'm asking is, has anybody talked about the rematch other than that one time? I knew this was going to come. I mean, that's the fight. What I want to know is always talking about the rematch. That is the fight. I know. That's one of the biggest fights in heavyweight boxing right now.

I know. 100% if not though it's got to be other than Tyson Fury versus Anthony Joshua is going to be big for England yeah right for them that's an all-time fight 100% two of the all-time greats in England to the greatest British heavyweight champions ever a little bit late but it's a little late especially after Anthony Joshua's last fight that was a scary one it was like whoa yeah but both of them yes both of the fights they did yes yeah it's not they're not the same guys no but but still it's still they're legendary Super excited. Exactly. The legends. And it's a huge fight that finally got made. Other than that, the fight is a rematch. You and Usik is the fight.

That is the fight in the heavyweight division right now. There's no one else out there that's like, you know, there's Moses Itama who people don't really know about enough yet. Not yet, yeah. But he's a hundred percent. Oh, that guy's good. Dynamite. Dynamite. Dynamite.

He's so fast. Yeah. It's so good. Yeah. And he's so slick. how he moves in and out. Yeah. Oh,

no, that's the next generation. Yeah, he's the future. Yeah. I mean, he's like our generation's Mike Tyson. Yeah. Well, you watch him. He's 21 years old. He's coming up.

You're like, holy shit. He's like. But other than, I mean, but he doesn't have enough experience yet and doesn't have enough name yet for what he really is and what his potential is. No, exactly. One day will happen. But for you and for Ousick, that and for heavyweight boxing, that's the vibe.

Yeah, 100%. 100%. I wish I was a promoter. Yeah. Maybe we'll get Dana White to get Zufa involved. Oh, that would be crazy. I don't know. What is, does, is there some sort of a deal that Ussick has with anybody?

I don't think so because I believe that is one of the reasons as well why he fakeded those belts. Right. Because he doesn't want to deal with anybody else. No, because when you have those belts, you get forced into fights. Right. Like, okay, you're mandatory to fight this guy. And that was the, I think for him, the position that he was in fighting me, he could, like, that was a voluntary defense. And he decided, like, hey, I would love to do this on my terms versus another guy.

And I think they looked at it like, this may be going to be an easier fight. So this is nice to do. That didn't go the way his plan. But still, I think that's where his mind is at. Now, like he's like, I just want to do what I want to do, which makes so much sense after what he has accomplished. After what he's accomplished, he should be able to call his own shots. And I want him to make the most money possible because he is a legend.

But that's this, this is the fight. But the problem is it might be too hard. Yeah. It might be too hard. It might be one of those ones, which is why maybe, you know, no disrespect to Deonté, but he might be looking at Deonté thinking Deonté is a little softer. Yeah. And we're going to just ride into this.

Sunset. Yeah, go out with a big spectacular knockout. Yeah, but it's also then, like you said, it's not going to be the big money grab that, because if you ask me. I don't know a lot of people going to pay for that fight. No, exactly. They're not going to be paid that crazy money for it. It's not a big pay-per-view fight.

That's the thing. It's like people will watch it just because he's an all-time great. And anytime Ussick fights, people are going to watch. And Deonté still, he's still the greatest one-punch knockout artist in the history is for. Yeah, because you never know. What's going to happen when he fights? That's the last thing you lose is the power. His power is fucking crazy.

Yeah, he's geekier finish you in the 10th. Yeah, with one shot, plop. Coming out of nowhere. He had Ortiz on the top of the head and put him out. I was like, that is nuts, man. He's so good. Different level of power. But, again, 40 years old, it's twilight of his career.

And this hasn't looked good in the last few years. But for Usik to want that fight signals to me. me that he just, you know, wants just go out with one more payday and that's it. And I don't know if that was his choice that fight. Maybe that's just the internet talking. Maybe that's Deonté Wilder's team wants that fight. I don't know. I don't know either. But like I said, I got all the options. They gave me all the options. Like, hey, you want to fight this guy. I want to fight that. So if they talk to you about MMA as well? Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I'm keeping the options open, but I'm leaning towards boxing. Yeah, because I've been in,

in the boxing game now and I've enjoyed it so much. And that's like for me, like I just said, like I came from kickboxing from being six years old and doing it for over 30 years. And then now getting really into boxing, I was always boxing, but I was boxing to kickbox. It's a totally different game. I had to rewire everything that was in there.

So now that I did it and I performed the way that I performed, and I was like, yeah, this was fun. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. You've probably heard about BetterHelp before, but maybe you haven't heard from those who have actually used BetterHelp. That feedback can tell you everything you need to know. Go to BetterHelp.com slash reviews and check out the feedback from hundreds of people saying how much they love this service.

It's easy to see why. To get started, all you have to do is answer a few questions. You'll get matched up with a therapist. based on your needs, and if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time. See the reviews, see what stands out, and see if BetterHelp is right for you. Visit betterhelp.com slash J-R-E.

That's better-H-E-L-P dot com slash J-R-E. I really enjoyed that. Also, that is the glory division, no pun intended, of the heavyweight division, is the heavyweight division, of boxing rather, is the heavyweight division. The heavyweight division is where the real money is at, always. That is the badest man in boxing.

It's always been that way. And for you, after that performance, I've got to think there's a lot of options for you. Yeah. Like I said, they threw so many stuff at us, but we're like, hey, we take our time, look at the different options. And, of course, still, His Excellency has our first preference because they gave us the opportunity. Right. When, yeah, we had, we had, what was it like to fight in front of the pyramids? That's crazy, too.

It was insane. Outside. It was insane, Joe. It's like, let me tell you another story. So that happened also while I was in this camp. It's not a nice thing to say, but my mother passed away during the moment I was in camp for this fight. And, well, that happened. it was hard and then we had to clean out her house and then finally doing that and cleaning everything

and then we come by a bunch of pictures and yeah you can see it on my Instagram and then I see the pictures of my mother 30 years prior being in front of the pyramids like wow why do I see these pictures now knowing that this fight is in front of the pyramids it was mind-blown And so for me it was like full circle going back. I like literally made the same pictures my mother made 30 years prior before the fight in front of the swings, in front of the pyramids. And that was like a goosebumps. So for me having that whole experience being in front of the pyramids doing that was like full circle. When did they come up with that idea to have you guys fight in front of the pyramids?

Well, the way they Look at that. Yeah. That's crazy. That really is crazy. Wow. Wow. That really is wild.

Yeah. Of course. Of course. Yeah. So when did they come up with the idea of having a heavyweight title fight in front of the pyramids? Yeah. So the communication is always like. like really like straightforward and they don't say too much so the way it began like the

first thing I got was just like a WhatsApp picture we're thinking about this location because first I saw the picture I opened it oh it's the pyramids nice and And then after that, I looked at it. We're thinking about this location. I'm like, okay, but how are you going to do that? Like, to me, it didn't make too much sense. And then afterwards they said, like, they sent me a video like, yeah, we're going to do it here. It's going to be outside.

And it's like, oh, my God, it's going to be outside in front of the pyramids. It's like, mind blowing. And that was also a thing. That's what I said. Like, it was like the rumble in the jungle. Right. But then with that being said, what people thought, like, what is this guy talking about? Is he putting himself in the same category as Ali and Foreman or whatever?

What is he? No, that's not what I'm saying. I mean, about the location. I never put myself in that. Everybody that knows me, like, I'm super humble. I never would say something like that. But that's what I meant. Like, it was something like the rumble in the jungle because we're talking.

about the location. Right. The location was a part of the experience. Exactly. It was insane. Joe, like, and then for me, they asked me, like, RICO, can we ask you to do, like, a certain

choreography? Okay, I don't want to do too much. I want to focus on fighting Uyzing. So, okay, the only thing you've got to do is, like, punch the ground, and then the ground is going to crack open, and then we're going to, like, for the first time, that evening, boom, we're going to turn on the pyramids. That's cool.

That sounds good. I'll do that. So I did that, buddy. So I punched the ground, I turn around, and for the first time we see, like, the ground cracking open and the lights shine onto the pyramids. Wow. Wow. It was a goose bump moment. Was that your first time being at the pyramid? Yeah.

Yeah, so that's why this whole picture and this whole thing was, for me, it was like a full circle. Like, wow. It was such a special moment, such a special event. And then, okay, then I turn around. Then my whole theme song comes up, you know how I run to the ring. But that wasn't like a real catwalk. And during the day, I already went to see, like,

what they expected from me and, like, how I'm going to, and there was, like, some small steps, like, down, like, five or six. But then I hear my song, boom, blah, blah, I do my thing, and I do, and I run to the ring. But I was, like, walking straight on to these steps. I'm like, am I going to take these steps fast? I'm like, no, fuck him. I'll just jump down.

I just decided that at the moment. And then I landed. It was like, ooh, this was high than I expect it. And I just kept running. It's like, just think about like, maybe I just like spring my ankle or something. I jump in from the crazy. Here is. Yeah.

Oh, my God. That was so funny because afterwards, the cameraman, you woke up to me. He's like, I almost missed you. You were jumping down I was looking at you, looking at you, like, whoa, you were gone. That was wild. Yeah, it was, it was wild.

It was outside and it was, the temperature was actually was pretty good. What was the temperature? I think it was like 20, 20 degrees. So that's Celsius? What is that? It's like 70 something. It's real swirly in that,

in the real midpart. What's that, Jamie? I mean, 100, you know, is boiling and 220 was boiling for Fahrenheit, but like zero and 30, I don't know. Yeah. Somewhere in the middle.

It's just weird. I will. Here, I'll do it right here. I'll just on the screen. I can't. What is 20 degrees Celsius in Fahrenheit? 68. Oh, perfect.

That's nice. So you're like, ah! And I run. And I just joked out. Wow. Oh, no, it's so cool. Did it feel any different than any other fight you've had before? No?

No. We've had so much. What is, how many kickboxing fights have you had? 75 something 75 that's crazy yeah that is crazy yeah it was yeah it was that's a giant huge advantage of having so much

combat sports experience yeah but but where everybody was leaning towards it was like this guy has one professional boxing fight what is he doing there this doesn't make any sense like guys I've been in and around the ring for quite a while I have a bunch of friends of mine that are just boxing fans yeah

And they were talking all kinds of shit. Like, you know. Oh, so I had so many apologies. I had so many. Rico, I was so many famous boxers. I'd be like, I didn't know what you were capable of, but damn, this was crazy. Like, oh, thank you. Appreciate that.

Quite honestly, I didn't know what you're going to be capable of either. Because I knew you as a kickboxer were one of the greatest of all time. But as a boxer, I hadn't seen. I'm like, you're taking away one of his biggest weapons, which is the low kicks. I mean, your low kicks are phenomenal. You have a tree trunk legs. You know, so I was like, that's a giant weapon that's removed from him. Like, we'll see.

He's also fighting one of the greatest of all time, if not the greatest boxer of all time in the heavyweight division. But to have that kind of a performance and to do it the way you did it, it's like, man, it was amazing to watch. As a person who looks watching combat sports, it was one of the most exciting things I'd ever watched. Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate that. But for me, I think what worked in my advantage the most was if you look at kickboxing and it's logical, like physically, it's like you're so square on.

And everybody thought that was what I was going to do. But I was boxing always to kickbox. So Peter Fury has been telling me to get more on the side for years. But how as a kickboxer, am I going to be more on the side? They're going to kick my leg off because I can't block anymore. Yeah. So I was constantly trying to find the balance within that. And now Peter was super happy because now finally he could teach me boxing to box.

Right, right. Proper stance. Every time I'm like, okay, go more to the side, more to the side because you're too square on. Right. Go back, go out. So I needed the six months. So much hard work. we had to put into that.

Did you find yourself like having to correct it mentally or did it get to a point where it was instinctive, the stance and the positioning? We had to, I had to definitely correct and they had to tell me. But were you correcting in the fight?

In the fight, was it down? Was it instinctive? You had gotten it in there. We got it down. But within the whole prep, so you really do need the six months for that. 100%. Yeah.

So for me, this, this whole experience of getting into boxing, like it was perfect. It was perfect. For everybody around it, it was really terrible. Of course, where Anthony Joshua went through and everything, so the most horrific thing ever. But for me, getting into the transition to boxing, I needed that time to get like a clean transition.

And that's why I was super happy with the six months. the change of fights. Still, I believe, like, the Anthony Georgian fight is still a big fight that we could do. But yeah, getting the opportunity to fight for a boxing heavyweight title is on another

level big, of course. Oh, yeah, it's gigantic. And also, I've got to think that from that experience, you're even better now. 100%. You have to be better. You just, we're in there with the best guy ever. Yeah, 100%. But the funny thing is, like, that's why I made the meme

of Jim Kerry because everybody was like he's moving pretty strange what is he doing but we knew that that thing would work versus Using

but we got so many more tools in the toolbox that we can pull out because in another fight versus a different fighter we're going to show a whole different Rico again but if we're going to fight

Eusek again, it's going to be slightly different, but it's still like basically the strategy works. Well, you gave him so many things to think about constantly. Yeah. There was no time to set. No. There was always chaos. There was always hands moving.

There was always your bodies move in. You're moving forward. You're shuffling around. It was so much activity that his mind has to constantly process all these different things. But normally that is what he does. Yes. And that's if you look at the whole heavyweight division, all the, his previous fights. he was in control.

He was showing them so much. And if you have something to look at the whole time, it's like, it gets your mind out of what you want to do because you're constantly anticipating what your opponent is doing. So that's what we try to do. We try to take that from him.

What were you doing for conditioning? I just want to know what your conditioning is like in general because you are such a big guy. And to be that big and have that kind of cardio, is very extraordinary. Do I agree? Do I agree? Maybe partially.

I agree with that. Because, to be honest, at the top, Joe, everybody works hard, right? That's what I do. I just work incredibly hard. But I believe that mentally, when you get tired or when your body gives signals of starting to feel tired,

how do you cope with that in your mind that's that's where i think the biggest difference is because if at the moment i feel i'm getting tired then i know my opponent is feeling fucked right right right right because i know how hard i work to be fit and to do everything possible to be in the best shape ever. Because if you look at training schedules or whatever from my schedule versus another guy's schedule, I find it hard to believe that I'm training so much harder than all the other top guys. Yeah, that's my opinion. I find that hard to believe. So for me, it's just like a mental thing. As soon as I start feeling it, I'm like, okay, now the fight starts. Well, there's certain people have genetics that lean towards better cardio and conditioning.

Yeah. Like in the UFC, Kane Velasquez was famous for that. He just had insane cardio for a heavyweight. But for you, are you, what I'm getting at, how much time are you spending on strength and conditioning versus skill work? Right now, for a limited time, everyone's part of the Buick team, even you. Buick's employee pricing for you event is on now. Get a purchase credit of up to $3,168 on a 2026Bewick Envision. Surround yourself with signature Buick refinement from an available massaging driver's seat

to an expansive panoramic moonroof and a stunning ultra-wide 30-inch diagonal screen. Don't miss Buick's employee pricing for you event. Visit buick.com.ca for more details. I think it's pretty balanced. It's pretty balanced. But for example, everything I do is based on endurance. So even the power of you, I don't have to do 300 pounds, bench press. Right.

I don't care. I know I'm already big. Right. I know I'm not the hardest puncher within the game. I don't have to be the hardest puncher in the game. But as soon as I hit, I'm still heavyweight. Right. Right.

260 pounds behind it. So when I hit you, you're going to be a hard to. got to feel it. So that's how we approach it. Yeah, just lean into what works for you. I'm not the strongest puncher. I also don't believe I'm the most skillful, but I'm definitely the hardest worker. And that's what we try to emphasize. Like, just keep working. Keep working hard. So we, yeah, the pace is high. We can show a lot. We can do a lot. Do you have a guy that's just a strength and conditioning guy. Yeah.

So, like, what kind of work were you doing? What kind of things are you doing? You want to know it all, right? Yeah. I want to know it all. I do a full body. Full body workout three times a week. And just a lot of reps.

A lot of reps. So this is more strength and conditioning. Or is it both at the same time? It's both at the same time. Because what we do is we have, for example, we do chest. and I do like 20 reps, just the beginning, 20 reps. Then we get to another exercise, and then again I do 20-20 reps, so we do 40 reps each. And those wraps are going to go up, the closer we get to the fight.

But the rest between the exercise is just 30 seconds, and then we change exercise. And we go to a different muscle group, and then we go back to chest. And then again, we do 20-20, 30 seconds. Okay, we go to a different muscle group. from muscle. Then that's, again, 30 seconds. So it's, the pace is, is incredibly high. And I think that whole training takes maybe 35, 40 minutes, max. Yeah, that's got to be a giant factor, because I don't know how many people are doing that, that way. You know, a lot of guys are doing strength and or conditioning. They're running. They're hitting the bag. They're doing different things.

Yeah, but for me, like, I'm not focusing on, when I'm focusing on strength, I don't want to be big. I feel like I'm already pretty big. Right. And, the more muscles I have, I have to just carry them with me. And all those muscles, they want and they need oxygen. So then my heart is going to be like pumping just to get that oxygen there. No, I just focus on that. Boom. And then I start with 20, and then I get to 22s, and then I get to 24s.

And then with the same exact weight. So you get so much stronger at the same time, you get so much fitter. Right. And that combination just, I don't know, it's just been working for, us throughout the years so are you using apps and heart rate monitors and things on those lines yeah yeah you know these heart rate monitors um do running um in different different ways we do the interval running we do the endurance running sometimes you just run for an hour and then you do the interval running is this mostly treadmill work yeah yeah yeah because like my my body's yeah been through a lot right so

So running on the concrete, running outside, it's rough on the knees. No, it's, I don't believe it's smart. So I have this special treadmill, which I can take some of my own weight off. So I have this big balloon around me. Oh, okay. I know what you're talking about. I've seen those before. Yeah, so I got that since I had the ACL surgery on the knee.

And ever since I've been using it, and I love it. I love it. So I can do the running. experience and because i love running because it's so hard so heavy on the body and and mentally it's so hard but then i don't have to full force on my joints like right right right right just like yeah it's not good well i mean you gotta think of all those years of leg kicks leg kicks and oh my god especially when i got the acl i was like oh my god how long ago did that happen three years ago three years ago yeah I thought I thought I was done so much pain so much

pain I was like why I'm like getting close to the end of my career now this happens like and then getting back from that within six months that was like because I had a bucket handle meniscus and at the A zero ACO I had exactly the same thing yeah it was terrible did they remove the meniscus? No. No? They just stitched it up. They stitch it back so the smarter. Yeah, but they know that now. Yeah, but the first six weeks, you're not allowed to put too much pressure on it. Right. Right. Right. But oh my God. They used to think that you should cut the meniscus out and now they're, they've done studies and they find that there's no benefit to that. Of course not because it's your meniscus is right between the bones and where else it's just bone on bone. Exactly. Exactly. So especially with me being so heavy and so big and like, oh,

Within 10 years, you're going to have trouble if we're going to take it out. Yeah, I have trouble on my left leg because of that very reason. They took a big piece of it out when I had the bucket handle tear, and it just that area hurts all the time. Yeah. Just it is what it is. They do cadaver grafts. Will they take a cadaver meniscus and put it in place?

Yeah, they take a piece of meniscus out of a dead guy. But it doesn't always work, and you know, you really have to be young for it to work more effectively. I guess they say that, but they say that. that also could be dependent upon what you're doing with it. Like, are you using peptides? Are you using sperm cells? Are you using hyperbaric chamber?

Yeah. Are you using red light therapy? Are using all the different modalities that can help you heal quicker? Yeah. But yeah, they do. I know I got it done. You definitely use everything because you have an age of the day since we did the last show. So it's like, I don't know how you do it.

But after the show, you got to give me the recipe. Well, I probably do a lot of the things you do because I know you do cold plunge every day. I love it. I do that every morning. and I do a lot of sauna work but I do a lot of red light therapy I do that at least four or five times a week I try to do it

I have a hyperbaric chamber I do that a lot I try to do that as many days a week because I've done that two days in a row now I like to do it three or four days a week if when I'm really feeling better is when I'm doing it three or four days a week and just constantly training

like you can't get out of shape You do it all right You do yeah you can't get out of shape You can't get back in shape But if you stay in shape it's remarkable how much you could keep it going. Look at Bernard Hopkins. I mean, he was performing at a world-class,

world championship level at 50 years old as a boxer, which is nuts. That's insane. And it's just because of his discipline. You know, never got fat, never got out of shape, always stayed in the gym, never ate bad food. And also mentally, it keeps you just in balance. Yes.

Because that's what I believe, why just training in general for everybody is so good, because that's me time. that's the time that you're working on what is good for you and for your mental health. And you're not thinking about, hey, I'm at work. I'm making money to provide for the family or I'm doing groceries for this. No, I'm in the gym and I'm working on me. I can turn your phone off. Yep.

Listen to some music and just like work on your body and your mental health. It's so good. And the effects of it afterwards, the alleviation of anxiety and pressure and just how good you feel. the endorphins. Yeah. I just wish people that don't do it could understand that. Because so many people, they just have an aversion to the hard work. They have an aversion to, like, getting there.

They just like, oh, I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it. But if you just do it, you'll feel so much better. And then everybody wants to talk about discipline. A discipline is very important. It's the most important thing probably. But almost equally important is momentum. And once you have a few good days in a row,

the discipline is not as hard anymore. Because now you have momentum. Yeah, 100% you're right. But the thing is, what happens, same with the cold plunge that we do multiple times a week, almost every day, is like some days, the same as going to work or whatever, you just wake up and you just do not feel like doing it. Yeah.

But then the discipline comes in. Like, I do not feel like doing it, but I am going to do. it. Yes. Because if I can do it on the days that I do not feel like doing it, every other day is going to be easy. Yes.

And that's the, for me, what I felt like I was just sharing with you, like, what I find so hard, for example, with the losing and that the mistakes that I made, that's what I've been doing, like, to be honest, my whole life. That's what I'm trying to work on now. It's like everything that happened in my life, like, it's been some crazy. It's like my mother passed away within this preparation, and I do not take the time to really take that. To take it in.

Take it in, like, what just happened? And I had the same thing with my father. It was like right before the Ben Sadiq fight. And I just take it and I continue. Because what I do, I take it, and it's a certain emotional pain, and I use that to put it in physical pain, so I can use it as fuel for what I do in the ring and whatever for as my job. But I feel like personally in relationships and just in general, in just living,

I think that's not the way to cope with it. So that's what I'm trying to work on now. So it's very difficult to be balanced if you also want to be excellent. Yeah. if you want to be the best, you know, if you want to be and accomplish what you've accomplished, you have to be obsessed. And if you have to be obsessed, it's almost impossible to be balanced. It's almost impossible to have a balanced life and also be obsessed on a goal.

No, 100%. But I don't feel like it's so much about the balance, but it's just not the way to cope with life in general, next to being an athlete and being a fighter, which is a, big part of what you do, but just like in general, like, okay, how do you cope with things, especially now with this, for example, with this loss, it's like, how do I find a way to give this loss and a way of like, okay, that I can work with it without like feeling frustrated or like, oh, I'm, I got robbed or whatever. Right.

So, and I feel like that's getting better. So I watched my mom funeral back, like, I think like four or five weeks ago for the very first time. So she passed away in February. That's when I watched it back for the first time just to take it all in again. And again, I went, like, all the way through it. And I'm like, okay, I need to do that more to get, I don't know if it's balanced or just, I don't know, Just to get like a way of feeling like, yeah, I can take that emotion in. Because now I just, every time I'm pushing that emotion away and just using it as fuel to be a fighter and be the best version of me within the ring.

But like as a person, I don't feel like it's a healthy way to just like keep pushing everything. No, certainly not. I'll keep pushing it down. Well, it's great that you recognize that, though, and that will definitely help you as you transition from being a fighter to being a retired fighter and doing whatever else you want to do. You have so much time left in your life to do anything. Yeah, 100%. But recognizing that that is an issue is huge for your ability to move on to do other things. Yeah, 100%.

That's a giant struggle for a lot of fighters. The struggle, especially fighters that have competed at your level, you know, the glory, the excitement, the chaos of it all is so huge. Yeah. That to step away from that, it's very, very difficult for a lot of guys. Yeah, that's why I'm so happy. And I also believe that what gave me this is that I found my new passion within acting. But so being on set with Jake Tillinghoe, with. with Dave Batista

with Eldis Hodge and those guys being so excellent at what they're doing as actors and they're just talking with them about this I think that also gave me more and more that realization of hey instead of just like pushing it away

I can use those emotions and that feeling to be an actor at a certain point So, and I always said, like, I just, oh, just kept pushing it away. I said, I don't want to feel it. I don't want to feel it. And as soon as I feel it, I turn it into physical pain, so I know I get to be a better version of me within the ring.

I hear what you're saying, but if you want to get into acting, it's good to feel. Because as soon as you feel, it's even better. It's going to transition even better on camera, because then we see that you're feeling something. And if it comes out of your own experience, it's even better. It hurts still, but you can turn in something positive. And that's where I'm really happy about.

Like, after being a fighter, I really found my new passion within acting because it's so much fun. That's great. So much fun to be on set. And, yeah, being great at something else. Yeah, that's great that you found something else that you're excited about. That's really important. Very important.

So how many movies have you done? I did a few. I did a few, I think, like a handful. I think the most recognizable things I did was Den of Thieves, Pentera, Den of Thieves 2. Oh, nice. With Gerard and O'Shea Jackson Jr. And the last one, Roadhouse. So, and now, of course, I've been talking with Jason, like, for quite some time now to do something together.

So we're looking at different options, like, hey, we could do this, but he's like, he has a certain focus on what he sees. Like, hey, Rico, I want you to do like this type of movie and I want you to be this type of character because I don't want you to die and I want you to do this. I want you to do that. So it's, yeah, for him being, yeah, so experienced within that world, I just. Well, also him coming as an athlete as well. Exactly. He was a world-class diver, right? Yeah.

Yeah. And he's a martial arts fanatic. He loves it. Yeah, he loves it. Yeah. So that's, yeah, that's amazing. So then, yeah, telling him that, like, hey, I love the X. So he comes to my fight.

I visit him on set. Like, hey, I just look at what he does and how he does it. It's, yeah, it's out of this world. It's the next level. Well, that's so good that you have something that you're really excited about as you retire, transitioning into that and that you already have some success with that. Yeah, 100%. A hundred percent.

And Dave Bautista is another one, right? like huge success in WWE went on to do that and now he's done a ton of movies. Yeah, he's really good. Yeah, he's really good. He's a very good actor. Yeah, it's not just like, oh, he's an athlete that tried to do some acting.

No, he's a really good actor and he showed so many different sides of himself. He was great in that. What was it, the glass onion? Was that what it was called? Yeah, the... What is that? Knives out.

Yeah. Knives out Glass Onion, right? That's what it was called. He was great in that. He's great. He's, I mean, again, it's like you see these big guys and you say, oh, they're big and they're just going to play a brute. But no, it's like, he's a human. Yeah.

Human beings have depth. Yeah. You could do a lot of different things. Yeah, exactly. So he's got a, he's losing weight now to show he's like, more serious. He looks amazing now. Yeah, he's still big. He's still 200.

I mean, like, oh, he's so small. He's 240. He's huge. Now, he's huge. And he's a great. shape he's the nicest guy as well oh that's cool he's the nicest guy so we had no we had a lot of fun we had a lot of fun so it was such an honor to be there on set with them and on such a big production it's like wow he's looking at so how do you balance that out like now that you like

as you said you're in the winter of your career uh would you accept a movie role right now if you knew that a big fight could potentially happen no so you have to be careful right now yeah yeah for me it's like I'm focused on finishing that and as soon as I said, then I have a movie, I'm like, okay, but then I'm not going to do a fight. That's going to be hard. So, and especially within the other one, I didn't really get the option

because I was on Roadhouse and then I got the Anthony Joshua fight. But back then I was just the kickboxer. Right. The kickboxer world champion, but that didn't really say too much So I was in the underdog position I was in the passenger seat

Now I showed what I can do So now I got a little more like Yo guys I got a movie so can we push the fight a little bit further So I have the time to get ready for it Right So that's better now But for me I would never Blend those two together

Or like hey okay let me finish this movie real quick And get straight into a fight camp That's gonna be like Oh two two and a half months I need a good like clean four months to get ready for a fight of this magnitude. Right. So when you're talking about these different conversations

that people have had with you, is the door completely closed to the UFC? Because I know that they did contact you and they were talking about you fighting and that they were going to try to do that Derek Lewis fight. I was excited about that. Yeah, me too. The money was nowhere near.

I'm sure the money you got for the war. Exactly. So I believe that that the gap is even bigger. Yeah, I'm sure. So I think that's where the actual problem is just to be completely transparent. So for me, it doesn't make any sense to go around the bush or whatever. And go backwards. No.

Financially. Yeah. If they would want to do something, it really has to make sense. But, yeah, we all know that, yeah, that's not really like how the UFC works. So I don't believe that that is an option. Well, it's interesting because their heavyweight division is so... Have you ever worked with Tom Aspinall? Of course.

He's a very good friend of mine. Oh, really? Oh, that's right. I've seen a video of you guys training. Yeah, we trained so much already for like, I think, close to 10 years. Man, he got a bad deal. He got really fucked over for that fight. You know, the way people got upset at him for stopping the fight with those eyepokes, to me

that drove me crazy. Like, what do you expect? the guy to do. He's defending the heavyweight title. He gets poked in the eyes and he can't fucking see. And he's had two eye surgery since then. And he's the, he's the nicest guy. He's the nicest guy. And he works incredibly hard. And he would never, never, even though, because I understand where it comes from, from the people to a certain extent because they feel like, hey, God was doing so good in the beginning of the fight. But it was just the beginning of the fight. It was just like the first round or whatever.

So it's possible that, hey, because of some ring rust, you had to get into it. And then the fight ain't over till it's over, right? So you can have an opinion about that the first round and I get an eye poke. Oh, now he's going to stop because he knew he was behind or whatever. He would never, never in whatever world do that because he has a fighter heart. No, if you looked at the eye poke, he was knuckled deep in his eye ball. Yeah, it was like gone. Yeah, I mean, unfortunately.

Ceryl Gahn has a history of doing that. He's done that. And definitely, I truly believe because I know Cyril as well, he's also a very nice guy, and I do not believe he's doing that intentionally to fuck with people or whatever. It's just a bad instinct that keeps happening. Yeah. Maybe it's a habit or whatever. You're doing this, and you're running right into eyeballs.

It's just they need to stop doing it. You know, I mean, there's a bunch of different conversations about how to start. stop it. Yeah. One of them has changed the gloves. You don't need open fingers like that. They don't have, you don't need that for grappling. No, they could cover the tip of it like a mitten, you know, and there's a way to do that

where it would probably eliminate a lot of the eye pokes. Another one is a guy named Trevor Whitman from Onick Sports. He's a Justin Gachie's trainer who makes a much better glove. Okay. And his glove, your hand is in this position all the time. Instead of the UFC glove, UFC glove, your hands like this. Yeah, your fingers are open. pull it down to tighten up a fist.

And this, with Trevor's gloves, it's curved like this. So this is a natural position. So you would, like, when Muay fighters, like Cyril Gan, they frame off like that all the time, right? You know that. So when you have those UFC gloves, you're framing off like this. Yeah. And that's when you're running into eye pox. You know, so they try to tell you keep your fingers up, which is great, but sometimes it doesn't work that way.

Exactly. You can't like... Especially if you're leaning away. Yeah. You know, I don't think Cyril Gan's a dirty fighter. I just think he's trying to finish fights. Like Alex Pereira thought he was dirty for hitting him in the back of the head.

And I watched the fight over again to watch it. And what I saw is Alex is moving. Cyril's trying to hit him. And sometimes when that happens, some of the shots are going to land on the back of the head. Yeah. But is it the referee that needs to say like, hey, stop it.

Yes. Yeah, we're fighting. So you got to try it, whatever you get to play. It's hard because you're also like, he might not have the best position to see it. because it's chaos. And also, like, if you're trying to hit, like, a guy right here and then his head moves and then you hit the back of the head, whose fault is that?

Is that your fault? Are you supposed to pull back? You're in the middle of a shot. It's very difficult to stop. It's hard to say. But when you look at his performance in that fight against Al-Carrarer, it was fucking extraordinary, man. He's, we were, as a group chat, I have with a few friends of mine, Dean Thomas and Matt

Sarah and John Rallo, we do a podcast together. and we were just talking about it, how basketball is a phenomenal base for some of these guys because Cyril Gahn, I'll show you, I'll send you this video. I'll send it to Jamie. Cyril Gond can't fucking move, man.

And some of the... Each light, light feed it as well. And he's 250 pounds. Yeah. But it's the way he moves is so extraordinary. And I think some of that is because of basketball. Because, yeah, well, no, it's not that one. This is a pretty new video.

He's playing against a... NBA Center here. Oh man, there's multiple videos of it then because he's I mean he's pretty sick. Yeah, but that's one of them. I was with him. We did a little moving, moving around together on Den of Thieves 2. Oh, okay. He was in there.

We were in the scene together. So that was fun. It's just having a guy. He's such a nice guy. He's like so light. So light. He moves around. So like.

And so hard to hit, man. He doesn't. He's never been in. trouble in the fight. I mean, he got finished by John Jones, but that was a submission. Yeah. And Francis Ingano just beat him by grappling. Yeah. But he's never been like rocked or staggered. He hardly gets hit. No, because his movement is so extraordinary. Especially for a for a big guy, but that's why I believe, but Tom has that as well. Yes. He has that move. He is like his blitz is extraordinary. Yeah. His ability to cover distance is insane. Yeah. And he's got one-punch

knockout power. Yeah. He's so explosive. Like boom, he can, that that's, I believe he can, but, he can be a good boxer, but he can also be a good kickboxer, and he's a good MMA fighter. He's so all-round, because when he comes to kick, when he came to kickbox, wow. Well, I just hate that fans reacted the way they reacted, and it's the casual ones, it's the shitheads, you know. For me, I was like, God, you got to give the guy some grace.

He got his eye poked out. I mean, he literally was knuckle deep in his eyes. For him to, for anyone, to think that he should be fighting with one eye like that. Who cares? Keep fighting. That's insane. He got fouled. It's not because of a punch. It's not because of he got kicked or an elbow. It's a foul. And so, no, the fight should have been stopped the way it was. And that's everybody should understand that. It's not his fault. It was his opponent's

fault. But how he got to this was like because of the whole deal he has, like how much sense does it make for me to get into the UFC because Connor got like a great deal now for his last fight. No, for you boxing makes the most sense, especially at this point in your life financially. And, you know, for Tom, I mean, he

has a potential career in boxing as well and now that Eddie Hearn is managing him, which is very exciting because match room being behind him is going to have a gigantic hype machine, gigantic promotion. Like, I think it's huge. And that they're at odds

with the UFC. Like, for me, I care about the fighters making the most money possible. Exactly. And that's how he's going to make the most money possible. Yeah. But like you said, that's what I believe, like all the fighters deserve, the fighters that bring in the viewers that are exciting. Yeah, they should earn a little bit more, right?

That is, like everything should be in balance. A hundred percent. And that's, I mean, this is where Turkey Al-Lashik has really ramped up the game. really raise the bar. Yeah. Because he's getting guys to fight that didn't want to fight each other. No, exactly. And he's like, how about this amount?

Exactly. Okay. Okay, that we go. But that's how we got the biggest fight. But next to that, with him giving me the opportunity as well, what he does is he thinks outside of the box. And that's what I love so much about what he does. Because we had to also.

the Francis Nagano, Tyson Fury fight. Right. And that was also like... Crazy, right? I don't know about that. Zero professional boxing matches for Francis. Exactly. Right?

And that decision was also a little bit controversial. Very controversial. I don't know. So, but that's why I like what he does. He thinks outside of the box. Like, hey, I like this idea. Yeah, let's just try it. Terence Crawford versus Canelo-Alvarez.

That's way outside the box. Yeah. You got a guy moving up two weight classes? Yeah. To fight an all-time great. I mean, it was, and a lot of people thought, Canello's too big, Canello's too big. Wow. There was an amazing fight.

Oh, my God. Terrence Crawford is one of the greatest of all time. 100%. He is so smooth. It's so good. When he was just, pap, pap, pap, pap, pap, pap, rip. And they're doing that to Cro-to-Conella out there? Wow.

Oh, my goodness. It was amazing to watch, to watch a guy that's that skillful and have those skills in, you move up multiple weight classes. Yeah, incredible. And pull it off against a guy like Canello. And everybody said like, oh, he's not going to have a shot because Conno's going to be too big as soon as he hit him. He's going to get rocked. And he's like, no, I think that was incredible.

And they were all at the fight, experiments, by the way. Yeah. That was a pretty cool. Well, it's also, Terrence is very smart. And Terrence prepared for that fight for like a year and put on some weight, but not too much. You know, he did a lot of weightlifting, but just a lot of weightlifting. But just enough. But just also, he was healthier because he didn't have to cut so much weight.

No. That's a thing to take into consideration. You got a guy who's cutting all that weight to make all the different weight classes that he was championed and all the way up to 154. And also, he doesn't have to cut weight. Well, guess what? He's probably walking around 176, 177 anyway. Yeah. So it's probably a better performance for him.

Physically, he probably felt much better. Yeah. And he's also used to faster guys, and he's so light on. his feet. 100%. 100%. That's so exciting. So that's what, yeah, what he does, he makes the fights that otherwise would have been made. Right.

So, and I think I respect him for that so much. And I'm thankful for that as well. So let's see what he's going to pull out of the head this time for me. Well, I mean, for sure now people are going to be excited about you fighting again. And it's even more marked. by far than the first fight was. I just hope it's a rematch. I really do because I think that's the just fight to have Yeah, that's the correct fight to have a rematch when a fight is that close and ends that Controversially and then the judging is the scoring is that bad

You the the right thing to do is to have a rematch. Yeah, and then in a different Like I said in a different environment and different situation You know that Vegas or Madison Square Garden I gotta be honest Joe they're both still on the bucket list. Yeah. I fought in New York, but it was like in the, I don't know, in a ballroom, something. I didn't even remember what it was.

But it was, I think 2012 or something. So, yeah, Madison Square Garden and Vegas are still on the bucket list. Vegas is great, but Madison Square Garden is iconic. There's something about being in that building. Every time we have fights, we do a UFC in that building. It's like, wow, we're in the garden. Like that is a special place to do. Yeah, so many things that happened there.

So many things. So, many basketball, whatever. Everything. Yeah. So many concerts. So many fights. So many everything. It's just, and it's also in New York City.

And as much as New York City is crazy and it's like, it's beep, beep and honk honk and fuck you. It's still New York motherfucking city. Yeah. And to have a great world championship fight in New York City is something special. There's something, something you feel. you feel different when they say, live from Madison Square Garden. You're like, oh shit, it's the garden.

You know, when you're in the room, when we have fights there, being in the room feels different. Yeah, 100%. But that's also one of the things that he did, a fight on Times Square. I know.

Who thinks of that? I know. And the thing is, for him, I believe that whenever you, when you hear something, and you say, nah that's not possible I think that's the right trigger

that's exactly the trigger he needs like I'll make it possible I'll make it happen there's the same with the pyramids and then with the time square it's like nah I don't think that's going to happen well they have a bottom of spank account that's the things like

they make things possible they just throw so much money guys like and that is exciting I mean that's something that boxing has needed because it's look it took so long to get Floyd Mayweather to fight Mani Paci out right that was a gigantic fight it took forever and arguably manny was past his prime when they wound up actually fighting again which pissed a lot of people off if they had been around back then if turkey al-a-shaic had been around back then

they and Riyadh season had been around back then they probably would have made that happen when they're in their prime 100% that's what that's what boxing needs that's what mMA needs that's what everybody needs. The UFC does that in MMA that kind of force guys to fight. You can't get away from it. No, but only the payday is different, but yes. But, you know, at the highest levels, guys like Connor,

they're making similar money. But it's just that needs to change in terms of it has to be like, it has to be enticing enough that you're going to get the best athletes that realize like, hey, I don't have to go into basketball, I don't have to go what I really like is fighting. And there's enough money

in fighting now. Yeah, 100%. Like everything else. But that's the problem like we just talked about. We started off with the whole kickboxing. There's no money to be made. Right. That is the problem. So, well, I mean, I mean, I can figure that out because, you know, they're dedicated to entering into the MMA space now and they just merged with the PFL.

Yeah. I think it's very exciting because I think competition is good. Competition is great. And the more competition, the better and definitely better for the fighters to have options. 100%. And they've got guys over there in the PFL now that are a fucking world-class, man. They've got some world-class fighters. Yeah.

So it's exciting. It's exciting to have it just, they just need to get bigger in terms of the public's recognition. Exactly. So right now everybody thinks of UFC of being MMA, UFC. And it's like PFL for the average casuals. Like what? Who's that? Yeah, exactly.

What do they do? Right. Yeah. But I think, to be honest, Joe, if we look at 10 years ago, combat sports, is at its all time high, boxing, MMA, kickboxing. Everything is like going through the roof.

Yeah, everything is bigger now. I think we're in a very blessed position. Well, 20 years ago, nobody even knew what MMA was. 21 years ago was the first ultimate fighter, season one, 2005. And that was really when MMA kind of made it onto the map in terms of the

general public understanding of it. From the ultimate fighter and that Stefan Bonner-Forst-Griffin fight. Yeah. But you could see a world where kickboxing could enter into that, you know, 10 years from now be in a similar category. And I think it should be. I really do.

And it's just because of the modern day world, because of social media and so many different people coming into the sport. And people can say and have an opinion about it. But, for example, with Jake Paul and et cetera and all the influencers. But they're bringing a lot of new eyes to the combat sport, to boxing. A lot of new eyes. So I think could you imagine if an organization got behind a guy like Ramon Decker's and showed him to the American public when he was in his prime? He would be like, holy shit.

Who is this guy? This fucking monster, this animal. This technical animal, you know? Yeah. Like that's the thing. That's the thing about where you come from, too. Like, for people that don't know, kickboxing in Holland, that is the epicenter of world championship kickboxing. I mean, Rob Kaman, Ernesto Hughes, you, I mean, Peter Hertz.

Oh, my God, you could go on and on and on and on and on. So many of the greatest kickboxers, of course, Ramon Decker's, but so many of the greatest kickboxers of all time came from Holland. 100%. You know, I mean, we mentioned Bader Harz. I mean, so many of these great, Melvin Manhoof, so many of these great guys came out of Holland. It's kind of nuts if you really think about it. Yeah, now we're such a small country, and everybody exchanges their intelligence with each other. And I believe that because we're such a small country, that's what increases the level so much.

Everybody trains also with each other. Go there, we go sparring with them, we go sparring with them, we go sparring with them. It was partying with them. And then you learn this from that guy. You learn that from that guy. And if you do that, for example, in the U.S., you want to train with somebody out from New York, you've got to fly all the way there.

You're not going to stay there too long. I think it just takes too much time. And because in our country, we can just drive anywhere. But it's also one of the reasons where Paperview never worked there. Because if they wanted to visit an event, just drive there. Like, I'm not going to stay home and pay for it. That doesn't make any sense. I'll just drive there and just go watch it live.

Well, that's also why the crowds were so huge. Yeah. You guys got massive crowds for some of those kickboxing fights. Yeah. People don't know. In America, they don't know how big kickboxing is in Holland. In the Netherlands, it's gigantic. Yeah.

Yeah. No, it's like, I think, number two sport. That's crazy. Isn't that funny? Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of crazy if you think about it. It's such a small.

How many people are? How many people? people even live in Holland? 60, 70 million? Yeah. That's nuts. It's a small country with the greatest kickboxers of all time.

It's like, it's an anomaly. It's very weird. Yeah. Very weird how it happened. Yeah, and also like, I think this now for the last, I think after like the last 10 years, it's, we've been so good in keyboxing

for the last 25 years or even longer. But now since the last 10 years, it's been recognized as well for the public. You've always been good at it, but it's always been like, I don't know, a little bit shady or whatever. And now since the last 10 years, since me and Bader put it on the map, just exploded. And everybody just went behind it. Like, wow, this is cool. This is cool to watch. We're good at this.

We're the best in the world. at this sport. Are there gyms all over the place in Holland? It was crazy. At a certain point, it was so crazy that every random guy could become a kickboxing teacher. So now, because it became so big and so public, they started to do it like,

okay, you got to get like a diploma and a certificate to become a kickboxing trainer. You can't just random say, like, hey, I'm a kickboxing trainer. It started kickboxing. It's just teaching people. But at a certain point, that was the case. Wow.

Yeah, it was crazy. So what happened? How did Holland become so big in kickboxing? I think they, yeah, with Ramon Decker's and everything, they went to, yeah, to Thailand and just, like, sucked all the information out of that. And we had, yeah, fighters, trainers going there. And they took, like, the Muay Thai. of it and they took that to the Netherlands and then like exchange like I said because the country is so small they exchange everything

with each other like this guy learned that that guy learned that and if you exchange that with with each other you just get better and you get smarter but it also has to be something about the culture the mentality of the yeah we're pretty big people but Rob can't I mean excuse me Ramon Decker's was not no he was not big he was not big which was one of the most extraordinary parts of his career was that he was competing against ties. Ties. At their weight. But in Muay Thai.

Yes. Wow. Yes. That was insane with elbows. Uh-huh. It was brutal. But his boxing, too, was a giant factor. It's so explosive.

So explosive. And his style was so aggressive. Yeah. Like, he was like feral. He just kept on going. He was feral. He was just like, the people who haven't seen,

please go to YouTube and watch Ramon Decker's highlights. Yeah. Woo. Yeah. It is. Oh my God. Some of the highlights. The highlights of his knockout highlights?

Like, holy shit, man. It's incredible. Everything was designed to kill you. Yeah. Every shot, every leg kick, every liver shot, every punch to the face. Everything was just full speed ahead. Power explosion. Smash.

Yeah. His ankle was so fucked up that his doctor told him, like, you can't keep kicking with that thing. Like, you're going to, like, lose your ankle. Yeah. Fucking taped it up. Blam. I was still blasting people. like a kid and I was watching these

fights like oh my god it was and then with him being so explosive and then kicking on a on a block on a knee or on an elbow she's like pop just right into it just oh it's just bone on bone

and my looking at it just hurts just destroyed his ankle because of that I mean in his later fights later in his years like when he fought um Dwayne Ludwig he had to have his ankle taped all over where the fucking place. Big thing was like hanging on by a thread. But that's what we were talking about.

Like earlier, it's like we as fighters putting our health on the line for entertainment. I mean, forever. He died young. Yeah, he died young. But, okay, that happens. You do that because you love the sport. But then, yeah, everything needs to be transparent

and it needs to be safe. You need to be compensated. Yeah, it needs to be a better, so money-wise and with the judging, and everything just needs to be, yeah, needs to be right because what we do is out of this world. Yes. And it's not just kickboxing, it's boxing, it's MMA, that's what we do. And it's the reason why it's so exciting. It's part of the reason why it's so exciting is we know how dangerous it is. Exactly.

And that's why I feel like it has to be fair and it needs to be compensated the right way. So everybody's like, oh, he's making so much money yet. Okay, but he can only, he can't do that until he's 65 or whatever. So, yeah. There's such a small window, which is one of the things that's so extraordinary about your career, that you've managed to stay on top for so long. Yeah. Because generally when we look at world-class fighters, there's a rule that a lot of experts, supposedly, have said,

is that it's about nine years. Yeah. We can only really compete in your prime for nine years. You've shown yourself to be an exception to that rule because you've been competing in your prime for a lot longer than that. Yeah, 12. Yeah, and you're not dropping off at all. And you weren't dropping off. You were still dominating kickboxing when you decided to step away.

So it's like even though you are an outlier and that you've been able to extend it longer than anybody, it's still, there's a window. You're not going to be able to do this for your 50. No. You know, you're not going to be able to do this when you're 50. 60. It's like you have a small window where you can compete and it's the people are paying to see you. They're not paying to see the promoter. They're not paying to see anything else. They're not paying to hear the commentators. They're paying to see the fighters perform as a very highest level of the most exciting sport on earth. Yeah. But that's why I'm saying this because it's it's not as much

for me anymore because I'm, I'm close to being finished. Right. You know, like I, Like we said, I'm in the winner of my career, but it's for the next generation. Yes. The next generation should be excited to get into combat sports and feel like, hey, I want to do this because I can't. And it is fair. It is transparent. And I'm fighting, but I can make a very good living out of this. And I could build like generational wealth with it.

Well, that's what's really good about like this MVP, PFL merger and having a bunch of hype on that. Like, the more competition, the better. The more eyes on the sport, the more people watch the sport, the more money will be in the sport, and then the more the fighters will have options for who to fight for.

Yeah, yeah, and I think that's the best thing, like you just said, like, options. Yeah, no, it's phenomenal. If you have options, that's the best thing ever, right? Yeah. They're like, hey, we got this, we got that. And it's not that you got to, like,

play them out against each other, but still, it is a good thing Because if you just have one option, it's like, hey, take it or leave it. Exactly. This is what it is. And if you get like, ah, the other guy is saying this, so let me go there. Reality is we could use one more, you know, not just MVP, but also another. I wish one was doing better, you know, if one was doing better and they were a viable option as well.

Because I know some guys did go over there with great success, like Mighty Mouse went over there with great success. We need more. We need more options for fighters. And, you know, it's unusual in that in boxing. for instance, what's really important is the name of the fighters. That's what's important. If Demetri Beavall is fighting,

people are going to see, they don't give a fuck who the promoter is. They want to see Beavov fight. If it's Arter Beavov, they want to see him fight. That's all everybody gives a shit about. In MMA, it's UFC. Yeah.

And the exception to that was, of course, this last MVP card where Ronda Rousey fought. So everybody's like, oh my gosh, she's a legend, she's fighting, and that, and Francis Ingana was on the card. So a lot of eyeballs, got on that. So we need more of that.

And more of that is good for everybody. And just like built, like we just talked about, build stories around those people. Yes. Who are those people next to being fighters? Okay, they're incredibly amazing. And what they do in the ring or in the octagon or whatever. Okay, but who is the person behind?

Right. Behind, okay. Oh, he's a father. Oh, really? He has two. I never knew. Oh, he likes to play chess. Yeah.

Yeah. So that gives, that gives. Yeah. That gives them so much more depth. And I also believe that that makes them more human. Yes, for sure. Seeing their family, seeing them interact with their kids. So everybody gets like closer to, oh, wow, this guy could be my neighbor.

Right. Right. Because he also has kids, oh, he brings his kids to school and whatever. You're invested in him. Yeah. Like you like them. You want them to win. 100%.

I mean, that's a big part of it. And that's something that they need to do. And I think you're right about glory. They really never did that. that was not really a part of the glory promotion. No. They were just like put up fights, put the best versus the best.

Listen, for me, I don't care. It was fucking great. I love it. I'm a giant glory fan, man. Every time there's a card, I can't wait. I watch it and people like, what are you watching? I'm like, glory's on. They're like, what the fuck is glory?

Never heard. Yeah, never heard about that. It's like even my friends in MMA don't understand. No. Wow, the real, the people that, the trainers and everybody, a lot of times they get like the glory fighters in to prepare their fighters to get into UFC yeah yeah for big fights or whatever because like hey they know that there's their stand-up is you know level yeah elite i mean and like i said one fc has a lot of elite fighters they're

especially at the lighter way classes there's a lot of real jonathan haggerty he he just beat yukiosa who's another guy this guy from japan is a kiyokishin guy who fucks up people's legs and he's really good. And then this is this guy from Dagestan who might be the best striker alive. Asadullah Imong Ghazaleev. This dude he's really tall and he fights at 135 pounds. He's fucking

nasty man. He's so technical, undefeated and he's from Dagestan. There's so many savages that are coming out of Dagestan. Just straight up killers man. There's a dude who just won in the PFL, Magamanov, who just won of the PFL his past week and another guy.

He fights like Imongazaleev. Real similar. Both guys from Dagestan. Similar styles, man. I love it. It's question mark kicks and elite stabbing front kicks and just real slick stand-up. You know, but in one FC, they're having these guys fighting. And, you know, it's really big in Asia, but it just has not caught on in America.

No, and I think that's also where the problem is, I think, with them, but also with glory, they're just like pouring your money, pouring in money. At a certain moment, it's like, I also understand, like, the one that's investing in like, how much money I'm going to need to pour in this before it's going to do something? You know, they asked me to be, they asked me to be a part of that at one point in time. They wanted me to be like the Dana White of Glory. I'm like, I don't have that kind of time. I don't have that kind of time.

Exactly. If you were going to say, I don't have that type of money, I'm going to look at you. Like, come on. It's the time. You're so busy. You're so busy. You would have. I know how hard Dana.

works. Yeah. Dana works all day, every day. That guy's always doing something. He's always got deals going. He's always on the phone. He's always meetings and the headaches and canceled fights and that and trying to make things happen and promotions and press conferences.

And it's like... Yeah, they don't want to change. I would never half-ass something like that. And you can't do that. To be a promoter is a lot... It's a full-time job. It's a full-time job. Yeah.

You got to go on there. And, you know, Dana set the bar very, very high. And he's the best ever, I think. I think he's the greatest promoter. all time and to me for me to do that like i couldn't there's no way no that's why it's so cool that that he jumps into boxing now yeah that he's going to give that yeah very excited and yeah well i mean there's people are you know always nervous when a new guy steps into sport but i i think it's only better especially with his reputation yeah it's only yeah with money with uh you know

like and the amount of money they're throwing at the boxers the m mma guys are like hey what do you What the fuck? Where's that money for us? Yeah. But they still need to build up. It's all good for everybody. The more money there is in the sport, the more attention, the more excitement. It's better for everybody.

Great news. The federal EV rebate is back. Eligible customers get up to $5,000 with the federal EVAP rebate on select 2027 Volt and 26 Equinox EV models. Visit your local Chevrolet dealer today for more details. How cool would that be? If there would be a world where, where MMA fighters, UFC fighters, would also be able to get into Zoufa and like, hey, you're a good box.

We see, like, maybe there's something. This is possible that they would do that, but right now they're not concentrating on that. They're just concentrating on. They first need to position themselves as, but like for the future. It would be, but then if you've got a big star, like say if you take a guy like Max Holloway or someone like that and he decides he wants a box for a while, that means he's not going to be able to fight an MMA fight. So that would, like, cut off their own access to him as an MMA fighter, and he's a huge star. Yeah, but maybe then he attracts different eyeballs to... Yeah, but to do it right, you got to do it like kind of like when Connor did it with Floyd.

He took a whole year off, and he was just boxing. I mean, really, really concentrated on that. And then... You can't get, like, go back into MMA again because then... It kind of messed him up. It kind of messed him up, going back in MMA again. He didn't have the same momentum. It wasn't the same amount of training.

training lost with grappling and especially with kickboxing. You know, like, you're only doing boxing. That training lost, like, you have to recalibrate your whole break takes forever. Yeah. I was just excitement. Yeah. It was just my excitement put it out there. Listen, for some guys, it might be a good option, you know, and for some guys, especially

after knee injuries, you know, where boxing is not as hard on the knees, you know, you could say that, especially when it comes to grappling and leg kicks, especially like those guys that throw those sidekicks to the knee oh my god those calf kicks wow I know crazy oh my god crazy but they also after that after we they saw that within UFC within MMA in kickboxing

it also started trying doing that isn't it nuts that it took forever for the calf kick to be a potent weapon like that it's so dangerous it's also dangerous because if you if you hit the shin it's like oh it's the last kick you throw Yeah. But if you do it right...

Yeah, if you do it right, like Alex Pereira destroys people's legs. Destroyes them. I don't even know how... It looks like he... He kicks him with the foot, with the side of the... It's not even really like a low kick or whatever. It's weird.

He does it weird. And he does it with no tell. No tell. No switching of the hips at all. He just throws the leg out there. And it only takes a couple. Yeah. There's a couple.

And then you see guys switches, dances. Yeah, then it's over. That it's over. That kid that I was talking about. in Japan, Yuki-Oza, he's phenomenal at that, man. His calf-kicks are insane. He's just, in every exchange, every exchange, he's kicking the calves, inside and outside.

Kiochishin guy. So it's just all just hard style, inside-out-out-out-out-out. What is your opinion on that? Because me and my trainer, we were debating the calf-kick because next to it being super effective, it's also a long, long-term injury when you get pulled. put out by calf kicks. Yeah.

Because that injury stays there for quite a while. Oh yeah, it's brutal. It's brutal. So do you think like it's a thing that should stare? 100%. It's effective. I mean, it's really... Listen, if you can knee bar a guy, you could heel hook a guy, you can rip his knee apart,

you've got to be able to calf kick. You know, it's a weapon. To take away that weapon when we know how effective it is, you got guys who are always always used to standing heavy on that front leg, now all of a sudden they can't do that anymore. Like Connor, perfect example. In the window between Connor taking time off, fighting Floyd Mayweather, fighting Khabib and then getting back in MMA, then the calf kept came along. He never fought with...

There was no calf kicks before. Dustin Poirier destroyed his leg. In that first round, by the time the second round was rolling around in their second fight, he was already wobbling on that front leg. Yeah. Crazy. Crazy that it took so long. for that one technique.

Yeah. Yeah, it's just the thing you see, like, hey, that's effective. Everybody started doing it. But again, dangerous, like you said. You go, I mean, this is how Chris Wyden broke his leg. Yeah. You know, he threw a really hard, low kick,

and he caught the knee. You caught the shin right below the knee and snapped his leg in half. If it gets checked and you've hit it the wrong way, especially you hit the low part of yours and the high part of his, where it's thick and dense. Yeah, that's the hardest part. Yeah.

But it's so effective. It has to stay. The thing that bothers me more than that is. Okay, I'm happy I'm happy. The sidekicks to the knee bother me more. Ooh, it's, yeah. Did you ever see Kaleel Roundtree and Modestis Boccascus? You ever see that?

It's the worst one of all time. You see the leg like? It turned sideways. He threw a sidekick, caught him on the front leg, and just turned his whole leg sideways. And he screamed and the fight was over. You rip everything apart. Oh, yeah, he had surgery.

I'd have surgery after the fight. His leg was destroyed. When John Jones fought Tiago Santos, I think it was Tiago Santos? I think it was. Yeah, Tiago Santos. He blew out both his legs. He had to have knee surgery on both legs after the fight. Both legs.

That's crazy. Crazy. Because just throwing those oblique kicks and the sidekick to the knee. Blew out both his knees. That's a kick I don't like. When Ian Gary fought Shafcott, Shovokkaov, who's a top welterweight guy, one of the top contenders,

He hit him with an oblique kick in his left knee And his knee's been fucked ever since And he had to have surgery He had a second surgery And he's still out Yeah Yeah It's quite a quiet

That's what bothers me about that Is that you might not ever recover If your knee gets ripped to shreds Your meniscus gets torn apart Your ACL MCL gets blown out So this is the This is Khalil Roundtree Watch this

Oh Oh Oh yeah Watch it from this angle Look at how Oh Oh, man. It screams.

Horrible. Horrible. I wonder about that one. Look at that. Oh, look at that. Because I feel like that one maybe is too much. Yeah. Because it's just like...

It's just a career-ending kicks. A career-ender. Yeah. I mean, if we're... I don't know. I'm torn. Because on one hand, it's like it doesn't happen that often, and you should be able to defend against it.

And knowing it exists, you have to be able to defend against it. But the thing is, one kick could change. And you're out for a year. Yeah. Like we said, a fighter really only has X amount of years to compete. And one whole year gone from one kick is kind of crazy. Yeah. By the way, it's pretty extraordinary how you do that,

how you know all those names and fights from, I don't know how long ago, and you're just like, you know. Yeah, but I don't remember a lot of other things. My memory is really good, but also kind of unreliable with some things. It's just focused on the things I care about, which is a lot of it is combat sports. But the knee one, that's the only one that really bothers me. That in, I think, knees to the head to a grounded opponent.

No, that's not, no. You don't think they should be able to do that? No. I don't think you should be able to turn a left. Even stomp on somebody's head? But they're not allowed to do that anymore. You can't stomp, but you can and rise and allows those guys to stomp. Yeah, like back in the day they did that.

Yep. They used to be able to stomp and soccer kick. But think when a guy shoots on your legs and just, curls up in a fetal position, it just holds on, you shouldn't be able to do that. You should be able to knee that guy in the head, because he doesn't have to hold on to that. If your knee is free and he can knee you in the feet, you should have to adjust. Yeah. That should, that's a, it's too legitimate of a technique.

Yeah. You know, it's hard. If somebody's on the ground, they're like, dish. The problem also is the cage versus the ring, because in a ring, soccer kicks make more sense and knees to the head make more sense because you can move around. and you can get away from it because you could go under the rope. Like if a knee's coming to your head,

there's movement, whereas the cage entrapped right there. And I think that's another element of the fight that's an unnecessary element. I think maybe even what karate combat's doing might be the best way to do it. Yeah. Yeah, what is?

It's like a bowl. Yeah. It looks nice. I think that might be the best way to do it. The only problem with that is when you get to the edge, you're stumbling. because you're, you're, it's like half, you fall over it and yeah.

But learn how to adjust to that, and that's better than a cage. Yeah. Because a cage is just a fucking physical wall. Yeah. So the thing about the ramp, the bowl, that shit doesn't help you get up at all. No. Like if somebody takes you down against that, that's, you're not, that doesn't help you. No.

Where a wall fucking helps you. And there's guys that are doing workouts now where they put their back up against a wall and they're doing kettlebell get-ups where they're doing kettlebell get-ups, where they're... Just to feel like... Yes. They're lifting up heavy kettlebells and they're doing it in stages

getting up from the ground just to emulate that position. But it's an element. Yeah, but that's where I feel like everything has... The ring has certain things because I feel like if you do MMA in a ring

and somebody shoots or whatever, then maybe they go through the ropes and shoot the... That's true too, right? So that's dangerous, but... Well, you see it boxing. Like when Bernard Hopkins fought Joe Smith Jr.,

and he went through the world. and fell and landed on his head. Yeah. It's crazy. That's how the fight ended. It was like, there's, but I think that was just shitty planning. I think they should have pads around the ring and they should, you know, in case someone fall. You shouldn't just hope they don't fall.

Have some, or have a larger apron too. Yeah. That's, you could fix a lot with a much larger apron where if a guy falls out, there's something around the edge of the ring. But I think a cage, the problem is in most people's eyes, UFC equals cage. Yeah. Like you fight in a cage. And the mind's mind. set of it is pretty cool.

Yeah. Because you get locked up. Yeah, exactly. You put that bar down. Exactly. You're not going nowhere. Yeah. There's something to be said for that. Yeah. So it has something, but, you know, I hear what you're saying. But like we just talked about, everything has pros and its cons. Everything has its pros and its cons and everything is exciting in its own way.

Like boxing on its own, like there's elements of boxing that you would not see if they were allowed to do leg kicks and elbows and all that. So there's something beautiful about just pure elite boxing. 100%. And there's something pure about elite kickboxing. And then there's something pure about elite Muay Thai. And then there's something pure about MMA, about watching it all together. And Jiu-Jitsu as well.

See, that's the other thing. The UFC's doing UFC Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. So they have these big UFC jiu-Jitsu matches. Oh, really? Yeah. So, like, kickboxing. Yeah, let's try. It's right there.

It's right there, guys. I keep sending Dana White fights. I send him fights because I'm trying to get him to do this. I'm like, you should get involved. I think he's too busy. Yeah. He's too busy. He's also got that slap fight shit.

So he's doing that. Fuck, off. I never get into something. It's fun to watch, but it's like, oh, my God. It's fun. It's like, well, I just stand there and just take a punch. I just like try to move around and just slip and slide. You know, you just stand there.

With your hands behind your back holding onto a thing, just take it on the face? Like, fuck that. Yeah, you're a pretty big animal if you do that. You're a, yeah. That's why, for me, that I, like, now experiencing boxing, I really, I can really genuinely say that I see boxing as an art. Oh, for sure.

And king boxing has been my life. It's brought me everything. So it's so much fun, but it's more intense. It's more brutal. And it's quick. it's like the pace is so fast and in the championship fights

were just five rounds so if you lose one round you're like oh and now it's like like I said it's an art you have 12 rounds and I saw the BVOL better be a fight

and then for the first so many rounds better be it for so much better better and then later in the round and then BVol still got the win like wow how cool is that well if you look at the fight, you think, oh, this is not going to go well, and then he adjust. Adjust, and it changes.

So it's, like I said, I really feel like boxing is so much of an art, and you have 12 rounds to paint your masterpiece. Yes. So, I know, it's incredible. And if you appreciate that art form, if you really understand it and appreciate it, it's beautiful to watch. Like, it's beautiful to watch, like Floyd when he was in his prime. 100%.

We barely would get hit. And Floyd, unlike anybody else, was standing right in front of everybody. He was barely getting hit. He was standing right there. Yeah. He wasn't running away and moving around. He was right in front of guys and they couldn't hit him. Extraordinary.

And that's what I also liked or still like about Canello because after that fight, you saw the whole transition Canelo made. And he took, I think, I truly believe that he took so much from that fight with Mayweather. Because then he started applying it himself. Unquestionably. And like, pop, pop, pop, pop, he missing. Oh, I love that. Yes, unquestionably.

Yeah, his head movement got much. better after that fight. I mean, that's the thing that happens when you fight the elite. Daniel Cormier always says you get the rub. Like you fight an elite guy, win-lose-or-dra. You get the rub. Some of it rubs off on you. Yeah, exactly. So that's why I'm excited to see you fight again, too.

I'm so excited to compete again, but let's see who it's going to be. Well, let's hope this podcast gets the wheels turning. We planted some seats. Yeah, maybe his excellency will hear this and he'll decide. that it's time to go.

I'll call you right after, Joe. It happened, thanks. We did it. That would make me very happy if we somehow or another motivated them to get back to the negotiation table. But just let's make an agreement now. Let's just make sure you're going to be there then.

What was the last conversation you guys had about it? I think a week ago, a week and a half ago. But it was more of a general conversation. Hey, we're looking at what's next. And what did you say to them? Did you say rematch? Of course. And what did they say?

Like, yeah, but you need two parties for that. Said, I know. Make it happen. Yeah, you got to roll up to Uzek's house with the Brinks truck. Just back that thing out. Beep, beep, beep. Exactly. Get the arm guards, open the door, show them all the gold.

That's maybe My name of my face on it Okay Put it in first I think that's the fight And I hope you get it I really do But either way

Your performance was extraordinary And you've had a fucking Incredible career man You should be proud You really Incredible career in kickboxing Greatest heavyweight kickboxer Of all time

Thank you so much I really appreciate that And it's not just for me Being here sitting here now because I've been seeing you and hearing you talk about it for, yeah, for years already. So like I said, it really, really, really means the world coming from you because you're an expert. You look everything, you look at everything, you see everything, the different organizations, so you know where to place certain guys and from history and from now.

So it means the world. Thank you so much. My pleasure, brother. It's an honor to have you. And again, thank you so much again for being here. So it's been a while, but we're back. Well, I had to reach out after the fight. I was like, oh, my God, we got to do this.

We got to talk. I was like, holy shit, man. I reached out immediately. I was like, how the fuck you had it? Oh. Yeah. Yeah, I saw the episode you guys did about it. You were talking about it.

I was like, oh, my God. I know. It was incredible. But listen, brother, congratulations on everything. And I really, really, really hope you get that rematch. Good scene, you, brother. I appreciate you. too, sir. Thank you very much.

Thanks, sir. Thank you, everybody. Bye.