The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #187 with Robert Whittaker

Episode Date: October 22, 2026

Joe sits down with Robert Whittaker, a professional mixed martial artist currently competing in the UFC's light heavyweight division and host of the "MMArcade" podcast.www.ascendfitnessbyrob.com/www.musashi.com/pages/reaper-rangewww.patreon.com/cw/MMArcadePodcastwww.youtube.com/@MMArcadePodcastwww.robwhittaker.co Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Don’t miss out on all the action this week at DraftKings! Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using https://dkng.co/rogan or through my promo code ROGAN. Sign up at https://Foxnation.com/RAF to stream RAF 14 LIVE on October 23 at 9p EST Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joe Rogan podcast, checking out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. What's up, Robert? Good to see you, brother. What's happening? Thank you so much for having me. And I want to thank you for last night, you know.

Oh, my pleasure. Glad you had a good time. Seeing the show was just unbelievable. It was my first time at a comedy club. Ever? Ever. Oh, wow. And, yeah, it blew my mind.

There's some good comedy clubs in Australia. In Sydney, they have the comics lounge. That's a great spot. Yeah, no, I've heard. of them, I just never found the time to... Yeah, oh, I get it. Try and juggle it. I don't know how the fuck you guys have time for anything.

You know, and you have a bunch of kids, married, like, an actual life outside of fighting. Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't know how you have any time. That's kind of the balancing act, isn't it? Yeah. That's why you see. So I have nothing but respect with the guys that hang in there and fight for any long amount of years is because life goes on around it.

Uh-huh. From when I started, like, 20, I had no kids to when. Now I'm married with six kids and mortgages and life. You know, you kind of juggle it around, just balancing act. What a big shift. 20 single wild man just out there fighting. And now here you are six kids, mortgage, businesses. Like you've got this supplement thing you're doing now with Musashi.

You got your own supplement line. So it's a lot of work, man. It's a lot. A lot of activity. A lot of things going on. A lot of balls juggling. Yeah. You got to stay busy though, right?

It's like idle hands, especially with something... And you'd get this like when... I guess like with performing sports and like the guillotine's kind of always over your head, right? So you just kind of always got to stay busy, keep moving. It's like a shark. Otherwise you just kind of drown. For sure, especially in combat sports, especially we consider the fact that even in the outlier end, you only have a certain amount of time.

I'm like the true outliers in the sport. I think one of the true outliers in the sport right now is Jared Cananeer. He's one of the outliers. Because that dude is, how old is he now? 41, 42, somewhere. How old is Jared Canineer, young Jamie? 42, still shredded. Like anybody's business.

Still shredded. Still shredded. Still works out like a fucking demon. Still has insane cardio and drive. Still wins fights in the trenches. Yeah. Like that fight with Gregory Rodriguez, he was getting blasted in that first round. It looked bad. Yes.

Comes on and wins it in the trenches and stops him. Even when he loses, it's not like... Not by much. Yeah, it's not by much at all. Like when he lost to Robo cop, it was like... When did he lose to him? Did he lose to him? Because he just beat him recently.

Did he? Yeah. Who did he lose to then? Because Gregory Rodriguez is Robocop. So he just stopped him recently. He was getting beaten up in the... first round and Robocop is one of those guys. It was like a kind of controversial stoppage.

I forget who it was. Oh, I know who you're talking about. It wasn't him. It was, God, what was the one that, I think it was Imamov. I think Imov was the, go back to that, please. Look at him about a fight he had since then. And that's the one that's in my head fresh. Yeah, I don't remember the one that,

It was a controversial stoppage. I'm pretty sure it was Imavov. 90% sure. Michael Page is a bad fight for him. Yeah, that was a bad fight for him. Michael Page seems like the EMOVAL for the fight. The most annoying guy to fight ever. Oh, dude.

Well, first of all, when he was at 1. I think 170 is really his weight class. And he's also another guy that's like he's 40 now or 39. You know, when he was at 170, Fucking good luck. Good luck even touching that cat. Too fast. Too fast.

Too much movement. He kept the speed at 185 too. Yeah, he did. Well, I think the thing about 185 though is the grapplers. Yeah. If they get a hold of him, it's just a different world. Yeah. You know, because that's the only guy that ever beat him in the UFC was he ain't Gary.

And the way he did it was by grappling. Yeah. You know. And just counter striking, setting up his shots a little bit. He's just, I've always said, I said it from early on that I think that that's a missing link in the M. is point fighting. These guys who really know how to do that style and then learn the other things. Because that style is so, you cover so much distance so quickly and they're so good at avoiding shots and then leaping in and they're so good at timing and scoring. And if you could score with

one shot like those guys do, they leap in and score with one. If you're a good combination fighter, once you connect once, then the other shots can flow from that. If you, if you, develop that style on top of that original point fighting style. A hundred percent. And like the huge factor in all this is like they're such small gloves. Yeah. A touch can stop you. Yep.

Like that's all you need. And that's kind of been my approach with how I, my fight style is just to be fast. Be fast. Just get, just land my hands. Well, you have a very similar style in a lot of ways. Like you're very wide stance. You have a lot of, you blitz a lot. You leap in and leap out.

Very fast and agile. Yeah. I feel like that's a lot. a great style also to like avoid that like some of these fights some guys like you see these fights where they're just like fucking stand right in front of each other and some guys thrive

on it you know it's like that's that's their thing they like to just stand in the pocket and blast it out but for how long I know you know and tell me if you think he's an outlier as well as that King Green oh god super outlier

because like I wasn't on his wagon but then then he changed his name it's like he started going downhill And everyone wants to say, okay, he's going to just fade into obscurity, you know, let's leave it as that. Changes his name. Starts piece some people up. Yeah. So, he's winning by TKOs. And you're like, he's back.

I'm so back. 40. Yeah. I know. He's, well, he just has a real love of the game. He really does love fighting. Again, an invasion fighter. Mm-hmm.

Right? And weird style, hands down. And you think he's there and the punches are coming at weird angles. Yeah. He's popping you from all sorts of, and talking shit the entire time. Like, I can't believe this guy's talking. shit to me. I've never understood

guys that can do that. Like Holland? He was one of the best. I remember. I was watching, he was doing some reset for the next card and he was setting up a basketball game with one

of the guys he was fighting. Like, it just blows my mind. I don't know how you can get in the headspace because when I'm in there, I'm on the roller coaster of pain. Like, I'm just angry.

Well, he's having fun. Yeah. And, you know, Well, you said something interesting last night. You said like a happy Robert is fucking dangerous, Robert. Yeah. We were talking about Carlos Prattest.

And now Carlos Prattas looks like he's always having fun in there. He's so relaxed. Yeah. And we were talking about his time in Thailand when he moved there. And he essentially had over the course of like something like six years, he had 100 Muay fights and kickboxing fights, which is crazy. That's wild. Because Muay Thai is so damaging on the body.

Oh, it's hell. Yeah. But because of that, he developed this very loose, like, relaxed style, like very aggressive, but also just very comfortable inside of the octagon. Yeah, like he doesn't get that kind of fight or flight response anymore. Right. He just turns up and he's just accustomed to it. Yeah.

He lives in that space. But because everyone's waiting, I guess not everyone. It's like everybody that, I don't know how to phrase it. It's like everybody that doesn't drink and smoke before a fight is waiting for it to catch up with him so they can justify why they don't drink and smoke. Right? Because I guarantee

if I started drinking and smoking before a fight, I'm gone. Within seconds, within seconds, within seconds, I'm gassing on the walk out and then I'll wake up in the ER. Yeah, that guy parties. Yeah. I mean, he's smoking cigarettes the day of the fight.

The locker room. Yeah. People are like, you can't smoke back here. That's crazy That's a crazy Like this U of C staff Must be bewildered

Like just to see And he's like I think he said in one of his interviewers I trained really hard for this fight I haven't drank for two weeks Or something like that I was like yeah Good effort man

Commitment I wonder how much of an edge That takes off of you physically Versus what it gives you psychologically To just be able to chill out every night Yeah I guess that's the What we were discussing last night

Watch the balance, the tipping point for that. Yeah. It's like, whilst he's happy and he's loose and limber and, you know, he feels invincible, like there are detrimental effects of all this stuff he's doing. I don't, but then fighting is a funny sport, isn't it, though? Because it's like, it's not like sprinting where you build up this machine to run at your maximum. There is so many variables working against you. And like, how many times have we seen?

saying just nobody's out of shape dudes just come in but know how to throw a punch and just win by starching people. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's just a funny sport. The new Subaru Cross Trek Hybrid is the most fuel efficient cross trek yet. That means

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Pass for just $2.50 a month. Learn more at nofrills.ca. It's a crazy sport. And sometimes if you're not worried, even though you should be worried, that's a good thing. Yeah. Like there's guys that it's like ignorance is bliss.

They come in just fucking wild haymakers that shouldn't land and they do land. And then all of a sudden the guys out and they got their arms up in the air and everybody's like, what the fuck just happened? That's crazy. It happens too often. Yeah.

Too often. Especially with the little gloves. Yeah. And then I'm sweating and grinding away, trying to get better. You get these guys that can just turn up and just touch of death people. Yeah, well, there's that too. That's interesting because you're a power puncher. You're a power kicker.

But there's like, there's people that have a weird power, right? It's like it doesn't even like Pereira. McGahnoo power. Yeah, in Ingano. Or, you know, there's Damien Pinas. You know that dude? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Jesus Christ. Yes, yes.

That guy, that's... Uberg. Yeah, Oberg's got crazy power. You need to switch people off. That Yeri fight? That last Yeri fight? Blown out leg. Oh, my goodness.

And Yeri? Like, oh my goodness. Yeri needs a psychologist. He needs someone to talk to him and say, we have to have strategies. Okay, you're a seek-and-kill fighter. When a guy's hurt, you can't. be upset that he's hurt and then try to give him some concessions. It was like he was part of an anime.

I don't like he was in his own show of like and there was rain in the background in his head. It was like rain in the background and his mud and his sweat. Dunder! He wasn't he wasn't there and then he like oh like hit him with that touch of death that he's got on that left hook man. That left hook is a whip. Yes. Such a whip man and what's really crazy is that is the only punch that's a very

if your other leg is blown out. Yeah. It's the only punch. Yeah. Because you can pivot off that leg. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of crazy if you really think about it. He's got one option.

Yeah. Yeah, he's got one option and he just... So he's still moving around pretty decent, even with a fucked up leg. But then you see it, like, as he gets leg kicked, he stumbles back. He just can't move when he wants to move and he can control it, he's fine. But it's like chaotic. defensive movements back and forth where you're, you know, you're shifting oddly on your legs. That's where a blown-out ACL really fucks you.

Was it his right leg or his left leg that was fucked up in that fight? I want to say he's left. I think it's his right because that would make sense why he could throw the left hook. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Because he could still pivot off that leg. Yes. Oh, you see it's his right leg. You see it pin.

But then like even when Yuri backs into the fence, like Carlos has one punch there. Yeah, that's it. Just the left hook. One punch. Right here, you can see, like Yeri's... And Yere is still in that space. Oh, there it is. Well, Yuri in that, like, maybe I'm thinking about it differently because in that moment...

So that's post the injury when Yuri realized he had the injury. But in that moment, it did look like Yeri was moving in for the kill. But you just, you can't throw caution to the wind with a guy like Carlos... Because Carlis Holbert could just start you. Yeah, that's where he blew his leg out. You see it go, like, wobble. Yeah, you see it, like, vibration through it. That's horrible.

That's especially, I think, very, like, it's super vital as a light heavyweight as well. Like, the power of light heavyweights, and that was my headspace moving in from a middleweight. It's like, everyone's got touch of death. Right. It's why the fights, like, a lot of light heavyweight fights are out, because they're still fast, still fast enough to land, but they're just heavier guys. Right. Bigger punches.

And you just can't play games like that. There's only a few guys that are like smaller, like Merzikonov is a good example of a guy. A guy's been real successful as a light heavyweight as a smaller guy. Azamat. Yeah. Azamah. Yeah, yes, yes, yes. The guy that lost to Costa.

Yes. He is. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, yes, against Rayas. Is he really 5'10? Yeah. He's small for a light heavyweight.

Yeah. And doesn't look ripped. Like he carries a line of. but so skillful. Yes. He's so slick, man. And aggressive with his shots. When you see Paul Costa fight him at light heavyweight, you're like, Jesus, how come

Paul O'Costa wasn't a light heavyweight the whole time? Yeah, yeah. That's a guy where it just completely made sense where he went up to light heavy. I'm like, you look like a light heavyweight, man. Especially with his, like, the few times he lost, he missed weight. Right. They're struggling for weight cuts and stuff. I feel like for a long period there, he was kind of finding his feet.

And then he found his feet just in time to fight me. and he came out like with super cardio and like super quick. Yeah, that was a great fight. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. I got spinning heel kicked. That was great. But you were one of the few dudes that I've ever seen get spinning heel kicked and survive it. You know, like that's a crazy kick to get cracked with.

Oh, yeah, I'll take it. I'll take that. Yeah, that's a funny kick too because like it's so hard to prepare for. Because it's not a kick you can, for one of it's not a kick you can, for one. It's not a kicky throws very often. Right. You know, and it's not one you can really train in the workroom. Right.

Because you can't train it full clip because you can't pull it. Yeah, and how you can't pat it up or anything like that with new boots, right? But yeah, and even I remember, I remember being in there and seeing him start to do that turn. And there's that one split second, because I've never seen it before, when I'm like, what's going on? and then my legs are gone doing funny funny things there's a moment where Michael Venham page was talking about this crazy training partner

that he has this guy who was like elite in the gym but never quite could put it together in the cage and he's in he's sparring with him and there's this weird moment where he's like what is he doing and he realized he's doing a front flip to an axe kick and as he's realizing it He just instinctively does that and blocks it.

But just completely on instinct. Like, why would you be expecting a guy to do a front flip to an axe kick? It's like a rolling thunder. Dude, but it's crazy. That's like a wheel kick, but it's similar. But with this guy does it, he does it to a heavy bag. Do you remember that guy's name, Jamie? There's a video of someone doing it.

There's a video of him doing it. Well, that's similar. That's Miguel Torres early in his UFC. That's who that is, right? I guarantee you, if someone does this kick to me, I'm taking it straight between the eyes. But this guy did it and do it with a roll. That's it. Michael Vennepage was talking about that guy.

That this guy did, the way he could do it, he could do it on the bag and, like, hit the bag with a front flip axe kick. And, I mean, who the fuck can do that, man? I'm blowing out both hamstrings trying to do this Is this not available? Facebook's video thing sucks Yeah it does There's a video that he should There it is, there's the guy

He lands on his feet Yes dude Watch that It's like a street fighter move It doesn't seem like it's a real move It doesn't seem like anybody could do it And it's fast as fuck Dude

Fast as fuck and the dude lands it Look at that It lands it as an axe kick Yeah. And he practices it on the back. I'm taking that straight between your eyes. There is no way. Luckily for me, I don't think anyone in the light heavyweight division's going to be doing that stuff.

There's the dude's name. Galore Bofondo. Watch this guy. He's so fucking athletic, man. This is literally crazy. Wow. He actually, he, he, he, oh God, these fucking pop-ups. He, ugh.

Fuck off with your pop-ups. I mean, I, I, I, there's levels, right? Like, I've always said that if you can get someone who's a gymnast and teach them, there he is right there, you can see it again. Watch how he does this, man. This is fucking crazy. Yeah. That is so crazy. What's crazy is like he lands and still lands on his feet.

Oh, yeah, like a cat. Yeah. Lands perfectly and then slides back into a perfect stance. Yeah. It's nuts. My knees are hurting watching him. I know. Dude, I hurt my back of the shower today.

I worked out I worked out I hit the bag I punched the bag kicked the bag had his great work out got in a sauna for 20 minutes stretched out feeling great

got in the shower taking a shower before the podcast I went ah it happened doing something like in between my shoulder blades

doing nothing just fucking washing myself age crazy I'm picture and I'm still a professional

athlete He's like, I'm still, wait, I'm going in for that title. Like, I'm going for the title still. And I picked up, I picked up one of my kids. And I felt like a twinge in my lap and I'm like, ooh. You just age creeps up on you. Think Draft Kings isn't available in your state. Think again.

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Limited time offer. Nationwide based on sportsbook predictions and free-to-play sports contest availability. Varies by state. Well, it's also this. I think there's these little micro injuries that you're not totally aware of. And then you do something and they just give. Which makes sense because I was throwing a lot of left hooks today and a lot of left switch kicks. So I was like I think I was just a lot on that side.

Yeah. It was a lot of that side. And so just washing. I went, eh. It was this straw. This straw. It's just so embarrassing to have a great hard workout. Feel real good about yourself.

He's grown as hell. It's strong as hell. I heard myself watching. The purpose of washing me. It's usually the way, though. Like, I pick up so many silly injuries just trying to either play with the kids, for one. Because I think once you're over at 35, you can't go into a dead sprint from a start, from a stopped musician. Right.

Without a 30-minute warm-up. Right. I need to warm up my hamstrings and everything before I'm doing this. Because if your kids challenge you to a race, especially if you've got boys, you got to beat them. Right. You can't let your boys beat you the rights. Last time I blew up my hamstring was racing with my 15-year-old daughter in Italy. I blew my hands tree out.

15 is getting a bit old. Like, they're getting faster that way. I know, especially girls. She's light. Fasten her feet. My boys are all under 11 still, so I can hovel along. I don't need the full warm-up, you know, but it's, yeah, I need a full hamstring warm-up stretch out before. I remember reading that Muhammad Ali would,

he would warm up for a full hour before his workouts. He had a whole system that he did. And one time, I did this thing was Daniel Tosh for his TV show, where I, like, trained him to take a punch from Manny Pac-O. Mani was being nice. He didn't really hit him. He kind of like, just came a little thump. But anyway, we're in the boxing gym, and I got to see Manny workout.

And he spends a crazy amount of time warming up. There's all these, like, band workouts that he does. Everything is, like, very systematic. They're stretching him and moving him. He doesn't just get out there. He starts real slow, gets everything warmed up. I think you've seen it. You can get mesmerized watching his warm-up.

And then I think also his ab program. Yeah. He never stops. I'm like 10 crunches and I'm all right because if I'm getting body shot and I'm not wearing, it doesn't matter how strong your abs are. You're going down. Bro, he's a very unusual guy. He's an outlier as well.

Yeah. In a lot of ways. You know, he's a really good pool player. Is he? Oh, yeah, like a professional level pool player. Quirky, like, super talents. Yeah. Well, you know, pool is gigantic in the Philippines.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, I mean, it is way bigger than it is in America. It's everywhere. And he has his own pool hall in his compound. So he's a compound in his home. I mean, a full pool hall with, like, 15 tables, and all these people running around, and everyone's playing, and they're gambling all over there. the place. Everyone's gambling. They're all gambling. And while he's playing, this is so crazy. So he's playing pool.

And while he's playing, while his opponent's shooting, he's signing autographs. He has people just bring him shit to sign so they could sell it. It's like boxing gloves, pool, pool cues, posters. He's signing things. It's your shot, man. Oh, he goes over and plays. And then he's playing a game of chess. So he's got a game of chess going on. He's sitting down, playing chess. He makes his move. His opponent makes his move. runs over, runs a few balls, runs over in between that, signing things down. This is exactly his room. So look, he's got his chessboard that's right by the pool table, then he's making shots, and then he goes and sits down, and then in the middle of that, he's signing things. It's fucking insane to watch, man.

He's just constantly moving. And the pool room is just filled with people. They're all moving around, but he plays real good. Like, real good. You know, if he's turning up with a glove. Don't bet on that table. But it's like he knows how to play. It's not just like pocketing balls.

Like he gets excellent position. But like I said, pool in the Philippines is gigantic. It's like it's a huge sport. And he's, you know, deeply involved in it. Like he has his own pool hall that's in the Philippines, like a huge place. And, you know, they do a big pool tournament with him every year. Where does he get the time? And then he soon works out.

full time. Yeah. Like, he still works out. Like, he's still trying to fight. I think he boxed this year, didn't he? He did. Yeah. And he's trying to fight someone like world class right now. He's trying to get like a real like world class fight instead of like fighting. You know, you think when a guy gets into his late 40s, probably, you know, have some like Mayweather's doing. Yeah. Yeah. He fights influencers, M.M.A. fighters, shit like that. Yeah. Not many. Manny's looking to get another world tighter fly. Yeah. How? Like,

Why not? I guess. Yeah, I mean, I guess he just never lost whatever it is. If you're playing pool and chess at the same time, I'm like, is that guy's brain. It's not a stretch. And it's super accommodating, like, signing all these autographs for people.

Like, everybody's run it over to him with boxes and shit for him to sign so they could go sell it. I'm surprised at how many fighters in general like chess. I know it's a tactical, it's a strategy. But it's just, it's surprised me like the guy's like, I'll go to the gym and I'll train with some of the boys and they are just, they are ogres with gloves on.

Right. They're just, you know what I mean? Right, right. But then in their downtime, they're just playing online chess and they're ranked like high. Really?

And I'm like, dude, you're a knucklehead. What are you? I saw you open a can of spam for lunch. What are you doing? And it just surprises me. You can't always tell, like, judge a book by its cover. right?

Absolutely. Yeah. I've thought about getting, do you play chess? No, I don't. Okay, yeah. I thought about getting into it and then I went on like a deep rabbit hole

of like the game of chess and the art of strategy and all that. And then I realized like, there's just too much to learn. Right. It's like the first 20 moves or something like that are already like in motion. Like everyone knows, at a decent, decent clip,

everyone knows the first 20 moves because that's what you're supposed to do. Right. And then everyone starts going off on different things and I'm just like, oh, it's too much for me. It's a long road. And if you get addicted to it, that's going to suck up all your time. Because you can just hop online and play people at any or your phone.

What you're doing? Any time of the day. You can play the computer. You could play real people. So it's just too nuts. Yeah. Yeah. But I get it.

I really do get it. I understand it. And you could like really underestimate someone's intelligence just based on what they look like. They just look like a giant brute. Like you ever talk to Josh Barnett? No, I haven't. Former heavyweight champion. One of the smartest people I've ever met.

Super smart. Quotes Dostoevsky. Like, he's like off the top of his head. He's quoting these great works of literature and studies warriors and, yeah, studies history, knows a lot about whiskey, makes his own whiskey. Like, brilliant guy. Yeah. And, you know, you look at him and he's like, well, this is a fucking brute who's really into pro wrestling.

Oh, really? Yeah. Well, the athletic side of that sport. is just unbelievable. These guys are elite athletes. Right. Because you have to be. Otherwise, you'd kill yourself.

And those guys are taking a pounding that people don't recognize because they're on the road, you know, hundreds of days a year doing these shows in these local stadiums. So these people come out to see them and they're doing these big pro wrestling shows. But you don't, no one thinks about the fact that that's real damage. You're getting body slammed. You're getting a concussion probably. You're definitely getting some CTE 100 fucking percent.

Yeah. And then they hope on the bus and they go to the next state and do it again. Right over. Do it again. Right over the fucking bridge. I go back at it. It's crazy.

It's so hard on the body. All the old school progressers that I've brought in here to talk to, they're all fucked up. Yeah. Everyone's just... Yeah, well, before he died, Hulk Hogan, I met him once years ago. Like, I didn't meet him, but I said hi to him

outside of a cigar bar. Beverly Hills. It was fucking gigantic. He was huge. I met him again when he did my... Well, I met him another time when I interviewed him for Spike TV. He was only slightly smaller then. And then I met him again when he did my podcast, he was significantly smaller because he keeps getting these

fusions on his back, right? So he's had like... I shouldn't love. It's not funny. It's sad. It's fucked up. I'm just picturing of like every time you meet him. He's just like... Well, it's because you think about the space, that's why old men shrink.

You know, one of the reasons why you shrink is you're losing disc space. That's why I've gotten shorter over the years. Yeah. You're, you get disc decompression. You know, it's called the disc degeneration disease. Yeah. But what it really is is just pressure.

Yeah. It's just all that weight. Especially for weightlifters, they all have disc compression. So his thing was he would jump up in the air and drop down on his ass. He would land on his ass and elbow you. So all that weight, 300 plus pounds, boom! on his ass every night. Boom!

His whole spine just going, yeah. Yeah. And so he had to get his whole back. His whole back was one rod. In recent years, have you fallen to your ass at any point? Like, unprepared? Like, I lay there for a while.

I feel it all the way up to the top of my base, my skull. Yeah, it's not good. I can't imagine what sort of damage. Well, I can't imagine. You can see it. Those guys all get fused up. Yeah. Yeah, they all do.

It's just there's no getting around. Kurt Angle was here. His whole neck is just one. Yes. Yo Romero. Yo Romero's neck is fused to his skull. Another outlier. Dude, you told me that when you fought him that you said it was like kicking metal.

I've never felt that way. I've never thrown a calf kick and come off second best. Like, I calf kicked him and that was the last calf kick I did. He didn't check it. Like, it just hurt. It just hurt. He's just, he's built. different. He's just built different. His body is just built different. That's why he's, how old is he?

49. 49. He just had a bare knuckle fight with Darren Till. And he should have won. Props to Darren Till for Ben. Pops to Darren Till for Ben. Bannuckling your Romero. And he got dropped too. Yeah. Just, yeah. Big fan of Till. Big fan of Till. I think he's doing great boxing. I think he's found his niche. I think he's had knee issues, like significant knee issues over the year, sort of really fuck with him when it comes to grappling. Yeah. And I think, you know, what we got to see in his best in the UFC, like the Cowboys Soroni fine is his striking. His striking is very elite.

He moves really well. And I think because of the knee issues, boxing is just a way better choice. You don't have to take into account the grappling. You're not getting kicked in the knees. You know, it's just, I just think his knees are pretty fucked up. I think that's why you see a lot of, like, the older guys, that weren't really taken advantage of wrestling-wise earlier in their career. but as they get older, they start, like, they start getting taken down, held down, beaten by

decision or put on their back and kind of submitted there or kept there. And I think that's because, I know this firsthand, I can still do it because I've just been lucky, really. But, and genetically, like, that's a thing. People don't realize. 100%. Hard work is, will get you very, very far. But there is, like, talent and genetics are a factor.

100%. John Jones is the ultimate merging of talent and genetics. Like, yeah, exactly. Like, you can't, if you were going to build someone in a lab, he'd come out on John Jones, man. Talent, intelligence and genes. Yeah. It's like all those together.

He's the perfect fighter. Yeah. The perfect fighter. But, yeah, I think as you get older, your knees, your joints are hurting, injuries are more prevalent. You can't wrestle on the mats anymore as much as you use. You don't have that mat time. Right.

So that when you get in there with these young, guys and they take you down or they start pushing on the wrestling, you're just not there for it. Right. And I also think that a big part of wrestling is what you do in the first second of the engagement of the takedown. It's like how that fighting, that fight. That's why you see a lot of young fighters that aren't, don't have a huge pedigree in wrestling, but they get out of positions, they keep fighting, they work their way back up because

they're fighting and fighting and fighting, which is another thing that kind of dims a little bit as you get older? Yes. You know what I mean? I think there's also the protecting of your joints, right? Whereas you're young, you just explode into things. When you're older, if you've had a few meniscus surgeries or an ACL reconstruction, you don't explode into things haphazardly anymore.

You think about it. You can't. Yeah, you think about it. You position yourself before you push off. Even just instinctively, you don't trust your knee. Subconsciously. Whereas you're young, you're just fucking moving. You're not even thinking about your knees.

You're scrambling. You're trying to get it. you're fucking, you're not thinking of ever protecting yourself. Whereas you get a few surgeries, you get a few blown out joints, you start protecting yourself. And then there's these certain moments where you're like, look, I could explode, but I might not get the best out of it. Let me take a break here.

Let me go to my back and try to work myself back in a position to stand up again. Yeah. And that's where the problems come. That's how you get held down for the rest of the round and what. Drickus. Drickus and Hamzot. That was one of the crazy examples of the gap in wrestling. was gigantic and Hamzaat was the absolute like worst case scenario opponent for him.

I, I, people don't give it that fight and what had, what, what, what Chamae did to Drickas enough like thought or space because that was unbelievable in a championship level fight to hold down someone like Drickazoo who couldn't do anything. He couldn't do anything. And he couldn't do anything and he's a big strong guy at the worst case you just flop around and push someone you know right but he just kept getting put in that crucifix and held down like taking advantage of it

was wild when was the last time you saw someone in a championship fight defending their world title get put in the crucifix three fucking times never never it's such a hard move to get a guy in in the first place to get a guy in three times and a guy who's a fucking bulldog

like trick is that guy's huge and it's not even it wasn't like it was just in first round. I just kept doing it. Throughout the whole fight, things are getting sweaty, people are getting tired, and he still just kept getting put in.

I can barely hold people in a crucifix and a ghee. Right. Right. To do it at that, like, there then, that's... The new Subaru Cross Trek Hybrid is the most fuel-efficient

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Yeah. Yes. Undefeated got cut. And last time I talked to him was inside the Octon. It was the last fight. It was the last fight. It was the last fight. I was the last fight. I was the last fight. I was undefeated. Didn't age well. I don't like that. I don't like that. I don't like. that thinking that you have to be uber exciting. He's got a brother as well, right? I believe and I'm not sure. Is that the, Fareed Basharat, see if he has a brother?

I think he's got a brother as well. If that's the... The guy's very skillful. Obviously, he's undefeated. And they just decided that they didn't like his style. Yeah. Oh, he's a PFL fighter. Okay, that's why.

They just decided, I don't, okay, I'm talking out of school. I didn't talk to Dana or Sean Shelby or McMannard. I don't know what happened. I don't know. But I didn't like it. I don't like when a guy gets cut that wants to keep fighting in the UFC.

He's undefeated just because you think he's boring. Well, put him in with someone who's fucking exciting. Put him in with someone who pushes him and makes it a crazy fight. If a guy's fighting and winning, you keep fighting and you keep winning. Are we saying that Hamzok can't fight in the UFC anymore because of the Drikas fight

where he won the title? which a lot of people thought was boring. I didn't think it was boring, but a lot of people thought it was boring. Yeah. His brother had the, it wasn't undefeated, I don't think, but had the same issue in February. One in contract. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With the UFC?

Yeah, with the UFC. So he had one fight? I don't know how many fights. I think he had a few. In the UFC? Yeah, he won through Dana White's Contender Series and had a few fights. Man, I don't like that. Yeah.

I don't like guys not getting offered contracts because they don't like their style. Everyone's trying to win. You're trying to win a fight. Fights are fucking complicated. This idea that you're supposed to just be entertaining and put your brain on the line and ignore your skill set. Ignore your skill set, which is to avoid damage

and to fight intelligently. Know when to engage. Know when your gas tank is on E. And you've got to play it off a little bit and move around a little bit and let your body recover. Like, this is what the game is. It's winning. If you're looking at your contracts as well,

well. It's like that to show and to win bonus, you get more money winning. Right. Right. Right. Like, great example. Good point. Very good point. That's the whole thing. If I could toast not my way to victory, I would. I would. Like, if I could, if I could do what Chameh does, like, sometimes

I'm jealous of these guys that can just wrestle. Right. Because they take no damage. No damage. And they just take people down and destroy them there. And then, and the longevity of that is much longer until that curse hits them where they can't get a takedown and then they never get a takedown again.

Yeah, I think that curse is probably what we're talking about too, like a buildup of injuries and all these different things over time. Like Usman. Right. He was a guy that stopped taking down. He's a good example of injuries as well. Very good example of injuries. However, he did beat Joaquin Buckley.

He did. And Joaquin Buckley fucking dangerous as hell man and especially then. And Joaquin was on the rise. Did you see the Mike Mallat victory this last week? Holy shit, man. That was cold, man. That was cold.

Malat looks good, dude. Yeah. He looks, it's crazy that that dude started his career at featherweight. Really? Yeah. Well. Yeah, he was a featherweight. I think he looked bigger than Joaquin.

I think Akeem Dawadu stopped him. He looked bigger than Joaquin. He did. Yeah. Yeah. He did. He's big. And, you know, he looks like a real velterweight.

Well, until you look at guys like Michael Morales, and you'll go, okay. Like, what's that? What's this size? He's not the means. He's like a special case. He's just like, he is the perfect example of weaponized physique. Yeah.

Like he's just, he's young, he's hungry, he's a genetic freak. You can see it. He makes the sacrifices to get to the weight division. He likes to fight. He can bang. He can wrestle. He can, you know what I mean? He's just there to scrap.

There's an ugly fight. And he's the biggest. outlier in terms of weight in terms of size. Well, another one was Atiba Gautier. He's another one that weighs 2.30. 231 was what he weighed before he started his weight cut, and he got down to 185. But he fought Roman Koppilov, and Koppilov stopped him in the first round. Kavlov's got good hands.

Fucking good, dude. He's slick. Jack Slack, who's a great MMA analyst on Instagram and YouTube and all that you, He did a great breakdown of the positioning and, you know, how Roman Coppulov was leading him into it and setting up shots and set up that left hook. There's a few guys who've done some great breakdowns, but it's so skillful, man. Yeah. And that was like a good example of like a super powerhouse, enormous guy who's gigantic for the weight class, just gets pieced up by a guy who's just slicker. Yeah.

And then Coppulov's not like a physically intimidating dude. Right. Like it kind of looks like a desk jockey. I know, except for his nose His nose looks like he had a fight with a bear Yeah, that's a donkey that visits the bar of a night Bro, his nose is destroyed But I mean, that's just

It was skills It was that fight with With Costa That I saw Costa and I was like Coster's found his feet Like you're just working that body Yeah He pieced him up

It's such a good When Costa is on He's a motherfucker I think he went through a dark time after the Izzy fight. I think the pressure of fighting for the title, I'm just speculating, overwhelmed him. Obviously he had some injuries too

because he had red suction marks all over his calf, which is a real bad thing to go into the octagon with. I mean, put some makeup on that shit. Because Izzy sees that, he's going to immediately kick that spot. Because he's a smart guy. Yeah, he's going to go, oh, you've got a problem with your calf. Nobody gets the suction marks on the calf. And he just got pieced up so bad in that fight.

and stopped and then Izzy dry humped him, which was hilarious. And after that, I think he was mine fuck for a while. Yeah, it was hilarious, but it was also, oh, dude, it's so dirty. So dirty. So dirty. It's like, it was cold, man. It's all blooded. Yeah, me, like, too cold.

I can't be bad, I can't be, I'm that, that much. I know. That's crazy. And, like, he just had a couple good ones, like the Pereira when he knocked out Pereira that second time. Oh, yeah? And then the arrow, that's got to be one of the coolest. One of the, I think the greatest fight celebration of all time.

Yeah. Especially when you consider what just happened. Yeah. Yeah. That that dude had knocked him out two fights in a row. Yeah. Two fights in a row and then he finally got in a fight where he was getting fucked up. Yeah.

His leg was getting fucked up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was not winning. His calf was getting destroyed. He's like, this motherfucker already got me. He said, I was thinking to myself, damn, this motherfucker already got my leg.

He did that thing where he was wearing that leash for the other foot. For the whole kid, remember before the interviews, he had that leash on him. Did he really? Yeah, dude. And then he took it off just before he fought like. Oh, that's, oh, he's off the leash. He's such a weeb sometimes. I love the guy now.

Like, we're good friends, but he's a weeb sometimes. What was it like losing to him by knockout and then coming back and taking him to the limit? Because we were talking about this last night. Your second fight, was it a split decision? I'm not sure. I'm not too sure. It was a very close fight. It was very close fight.

I feel like if they scored takedowns like they used to back in the day, I might have got my hand raised. Yeah, take downs don't mean as much anymore unless you do something with them. You can win off your back if the guy on top doesn't do anything. That's how Boss Routon won the world title when he beat Kevin Randleman. Kevin Randemann took him down, but Boss was fucking him up from his back, just elbowing him, blasting him from his back. It was very controversial because,

Everybody's like, no, the guy on top, he's winning. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But Boss Routam was doing mad damage from the bottom. Yeah. Like, it's, and you also see, like, some guys can generate, like, what about when Holland knocked out Jacare off the back? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

That was why. Reached up and hit him with a fucking right hook. Like, how? How do you get generated enough power? I know. Every time I'm on my back and I'm trying to fight up, I get fed. Like, I think. I get fed and then I gas.

And then that's where I'm staying for the next. next four minutes or whatever. I've seen someone else knock someone out from their back too with a hook. God, I forget who it was. But he was in, he was on top of someone

or someone was on top of him. I don't remember if he says guard or if he was mounted and he throws a right hook and the guy just like sinks and falls on top of him. Like, it is possible. Yeah.

I've seen, weird things are possible. That's why everyone loves this sport is because crazy stuff happens. Oh yeah. Like, it is just a melting pot of athletes. Like when Sean Sharoff just knocked out Gable Steveson. Like, in the first round with a first punch, like a 2,400 to one underdog.

Yeah, that's crazy. That's crazy. Crazy. And you know there were punters that put 10 bucks on, like just threw 10 bucks on. 100%. And they're just laughing. He made a lot of people's days. Minus 2400 is crazy.

and then he loses in 11 seconds. I was thinking after I saw him the fight before, like he was a bit reckless with his ability to go in. Especially in such, like, the big boys division. Yeah.

Like, everyone's got touch of death there. Well, he's also a guy who I know he is a heavy weight. I know he weighs like 240 or whatever he weighs. But you look at him and you're like, that guy can make 205. Like 100%. 205's not outside of his wheelhouse. You don't think?

Because he's, he's late. Yeah, this is Kevin on. This was also a hook. It's only one I can find. He's talking to him while it's happening. Always. He's always talking to people. He's in the middle saying I had this dream when I was 17 and then throws a hook and knocks him out.

Is that what he said? I had a dream when I was 17. Oh, I can hear it. Is it on right now? Yeah, let me hear it. Put the headphones on. Oh! He said that was nice.

He's telling him it's nice. Who I had a dream about this. About about like 17. You know what I mean? Right there. Everybody talked like that in the middle of life. Even Habib talking, he talks a lot lower than that. Kevin Holland's almost screaming.

Jack Gray's, he was already badly hurt. Oh, huge. Go ahead. That's crazy. That finish was crazy. It was the first punch had him fucked up. Yeah, and he didn't recover because he was there for a minute. So he must not hurting bad.

But then the rest of it was terrible. to watch. Well, he said to Joaquin Buckley, he goes, you got a booger on your nose. And then he knocked him out. He's like, hey, man, you got a booger on your nose. And then, bop! He hits someone straight right and knocks him out. Yeah, I don't know what I'd do if someone was talking that much to me in a fight.

Well, Frank Shamrock had a fight with Nick Diaz and Strike Force. And he said, after the fight, he goes, it's so fucked up because this guy is talking shit to you. And you're like, I can't believe he's doing this. I can't believe he's talking shit to me. Because he's Frank Shamrock.

He's a legend. He was former UFC champion, like a real pioneer in terms of like a complete martial artist. He was like one of the very first like completely. Started with boots on. Yeah. Man, I mean, he did the pancreas style when you're open slaps. I mean, he was a real pioneer. So for him and Nick Diaz was like, what bitch? What you could do, bitch?

He's just popping him and talking to him. You don't get to breathe because he's not hitting you full blast. He's like, here, put some, put some vault. And he, I love how he used to put his hands down by his, by his hips. He's just talking to him constantly. I've always been the biggest fan of his style. Oh, Nick has a crazy style. It just looks so much fun.

It looks fun. He's relaxed. Like, even while he's doing this, he's never straining. Like, all of his punches are like 50%. Everything's 50%. But because of that, he can throw them for days. Forever. Forever.

And then he gets to that point where he's not even breathing. and he's just beating on a gassed guy. You know what my favorite fight of him ever is? Paul Semtex daily. Oh, yeah? Yeah, in Strike Force. Semtex had maybe the craziest power in the history of the division.

Semtex would just put people into orbit. He had crazy knockouts, and these dudes just went to war, and he dropped Nick a couple of times, but Nick brought him into a pace where he was going to have to sprint for the entire five minutes. And by the end of like three minutes in, you see he's like, he's like, I can't do this anymore.

Yeah. And then Nick just overwhelms him and stops him. His lactic overload. Yeah, see if you can find that. He's a crazy fight. He had some wars and strut force. Bring us up earlier in the fight. They were wrestling a little bit of our choice.

Yeah, but in the beginning, it's like you see the power of Semtex, like crazy left hook. Left hook and a left uppercut would just put people into orbit. Just terrifying power. He's just one of those guys with power. As we were saying, but like you're born with it. I swear you're born with it. It's not like he's doing a gym workout. Like explosiveness routine to get power like that.

You can certainly enhance your power, but I think the type of power that like Paul Daly has or, you know, like a Thomas Hitman's Hearn type power. Or Deontay Wilder, he's the best example. You're just born with that. You got a gift from God. God gave you a gift to put people into orbit. And this fight just is just this crazy example. of his cardio. You know, Nick Diaz is swam back from Alcatraz. I think seven times it might be more now. I remember seeing that like he's really big, even during camp's like really big in a triathlon.

Yeah. Like that's why how he stays fit. Like you can't you can't get this or sustain this level of cardio unless cardio is your lifestyle. Yes. Like this is this this this at this point cardio is your hobby. Yeah. It's a different thing. Just like Marab. So he's not trying to blitz people ever. He's not trying to hit you with one big bomb and trying to... He's just cooking you. Yeah. And he's bringing you up to a pace that he knows that you can't sustain, but he does every day. Do you reckon that's what burnt him out?

Because I swear, it's got to be like, if every fight you turn up and you're like, all right, four rounds to go before I got you. Like, you know you got 20 minutes of cooking a guy, you know what I mean? Well, it could be that, but it's also, you've got to take into consideration all the years that he's been fighting. So I've called Nick's first fight in the UFC in 1990, no, 2001, I think. 2001. I'm pretty sure it was 2001. I'm pretty sure that was the first time I worked for the UFC in the new era. You know, with 97 I worked for the old era before Zufa.

And then it was him versus Robbie Lawler. And he was like 20 years old. Yeah. That was so good. He had some wars. He just got dropped there. So bad. It was 2003.

Okay. That's 23 years ago. Yeah. That's crazy. That is a long time to be getting punched in the head. And I think that is a giant factor. Especially with his style. His style was very much in your face.

He's going to eat a couple, but he's going to give you four for every one you land. Yeah. And he did a lot of sparring with what's that to? I take that back. That was just the UFC. He did, his first fight was August 31st, 2001. for IFC Warriors. And was 2003, what event was that?

Jeremy Jackson. No, what was the number? UFC. Weird, that's, hold on. Does it say it? I would have swore. UFC 44. UFC 44.

And what? July 19, 2000, or sorry, September 26th, 2003. Okay. So that's his, and that's Robbie Lawler? No, Jeremy Jackson. That was his first one? Robby Lawler was his next one, 2004. Oh, interesting.

So Jeremy Jackson was a guy who stopped him earlier in his career Who was a really good boxer Yeah, this is the end of it Paul just he just couldn't take it anymore And the pace is just fucking insane Because it doesn't stop, it doesn't slow down Yeah But I think, you know, at a certain point in time

Everybody's time is up And if you've been sparring with pro boxers for years And sparring hard for years And training hard and fighting and getting in these crazy wars The type of fights, yeah The type of fights that you're in Remember when he fought Anderson Silva and he was getting bored so he just laid down and put his hands on his head like this? Only he could do that.

It was awesome. It was amazing. I mean, it was like, even though he lost the fight, I was like, that was fucking great. It was so entertaining. Yeah, yeah. It's like, because he knew Anderson just wanted a counterstrike and just walk back on the fence. So he just didn't engage. Right.

And then nothing was happening. I know. There was a few guys who figured that out with Anderson. Yeah. That if you don't do anything, he doesn't do anything. Yeah. Yeah. Which is crazy.

Yeah. And because during his prime, he's running through people, before people worked it out, before there was like a ton of tape on him, before they found that. And before also Anderson's age and the amount of fights he had caught up with him, he was untouchable. Untouchable. Anderson and his prime was in the Matrix. He was doing things to people where you're like, this is, how is he doing it? And it was like, he'd pull these spectacular techniques out of nowhere, like Vitor, that front kick to the face.

It was just like, my lord He was in the Matrix He just saw things that other people couldn't see There was a time And I always say that you have to look at elite fighters In their absolute prime You can't look at them like BJ Penn later And he's my best example of that

You can't look at the BJ Penn Frankie Edgar fight and say that's BJ Penn Now you gotta look at, I mean later in his career You know you got to look at BJ Penn when he fought Sean Cher Joe Daddy Stevenson You're BJ Penn when he was in his prime You got to look at that And I feel like that's the same thing with Anderson

Don't look at him past the broken leg Look at him before that When he was just starching everybody Look at him look before that Where no one could even touch him And making it look easy Easy like championship fights Like finishing people easily

Yeah And having fun Like having the Forrest Griffin fight Like he was having a good time Yeah it's like that was almost dirty too That was another dirty moment Some guys are just cold-blooded, man. Cold-blooded.

Just step back and popped him with the right hand. Yeah, and just like, kind of mockingly, like, dancing around. Didn't he get told off once because he was mucking around that much? That was the Damien Maya fight. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the Damian-Maya fight, well, I think there's another factor in that fight. So that fight was outside in Abu Dhabi, and it was hot. And there was fucking bugs that were flying around the size of it.

of a horse. Was it? I didn't know that because I can't imagine how annoying that would be. It was weird. You got these weird Middle Eastern bugs

like that you never saw before flying around. Like, whoa, look the size of that thing. I was like, this is crazy. And it was outside. So Anderson comes out hot in the first round, like putting it to Maya,

trying to put Maya away. But he doesn't wind up putting him away. And so I think he got really fucking tired. And I think he just decided to coast. And then Maya was like

kind of chasing and after him, and he was just getting out of the way and just doing enough to win a decision. And Dana White was pissed. They got real, because this is like a big showcase fight. First of all, even though the White House card was awesome, it was a lot of fun, it was great night. Don't have fights outside.

A world championship fight should be fought in a controlled environment. It should be an air-conditioned building. It should be a controlled environment that everyone fights in a world championship. fight the same way. It's a control. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. What were some variables? I wasn't there. You were. What are some variables we didn't see? Well, one of them was humidity. And Gachie talked about that. So there was thunderstorms all around us.

Yes. The fight got delayed. Yes. The fights got delayed and they thought they were going to get delayed way later to like 10.30 p.m. But it wound up passing over us. Like literally like miraculously. Like literally circled around.

Like they might have done something. Start the engine, get the thing in the sky. He might have done something. But it's a good time to do something. Yeah, if you are. If you really can manipulate the weather, that would be a good time. So there was that, and Justin said that in the first round, he felt it. He's like, you could feel the air was heavy.

Yeah. That's a factor. It wasn't that hot, like when they're fighting is in the 70s, I believe. But 70s with humidity, when you're going out of it, that's not how it's supposed to be. Air-conditioned environment. It should be the same way for every fight. And that Abu Dhabi fight, it was hot. I remember sweating in my shirt and we were outside.

And I was like, these boys must be fucking tired. This episode is brought to you by RAF, Real American Freestyle Wrestling exclusively on Fox Nation. Every month, you get every feud, every match, every belt. If you love UFC, wrestling is where it all began. And now, RAF heads to Sin City for a. another massive night of action. RAF 14.

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Like, heavy, heavy sweater. Like, so whenever I do like a hard session, like if I have a big sparring day and do some rounds and it's hot because in Australia, humidity is, we live in it, right? Right. I'll be cooked, like cooked. You know, Gachie doesn't drink water when he trains. Really? Yeah.

He won't drink any water until after his training session is over. Why? He thinks it toughens him up. That's just how he's always done it. He is super tough. He's tough as far. That's an adorable motherfucker. I don't know if that'll work for me.

Like, I just stop drinking water. Will it make me tougher? Or will I just die? I don't know. know if, but it's like what we were talking about earlier, that this is balance. Yeah. Which being like drinking and smoking and having fun and being like fucking Marine. Yes.

I don't know, man. Yeah. Why does a special base say? Like special animals. Like, it's almost like I wish there was a Marvin Hagler in MMA at the same time there's a Carlos protest. So let's see which way works best. Yes.

You know, you've got two guys that are special athletes, but one of them gets up at five o'clock at the morning and screaming war and running up sand dunes with combat boots on in the middle of the winter in Cape Cod. That's Marvin Hagler. And he has Carlos Proctor. He's fucking dancing, he's drinking, he's got a Marlboro. And he's just going in there and fucking tuning people up. I don't know.

And easily. That last fight was rough to watch. The Jack Tilly Matalena fight. Yes, yes. As a page hit, Patriotic Australian, sitting there and watching that fight was rough. Well, as a fan of Jacks, it's hard to watch. Yeah. He's a great guy and he's an elite fighter.

But my goodness, what Prattez did to him, like you said it best, it was dirty. Yeah. It was just dirty. It was just like an executioner at that point. He's got that step-in knee to the left side or from his left side into the liver. God, that's so nasty. He does that so well. He's giving you all these different reeds.

And he gets so much range on it. Yes. Like, it's, he's like, he fights almost in your face, but he's not there. Right. He's not there. You go to come to him and he just leans back and he's gone. Yeah, and pops me from across the cage. And then calf kicks you on the way out.

DC said it best, we were talking about this last night, DC said he's built like a mosquito. Just all legs. Like an elite killer mosquito. All limbs. All limbs, long limbs, but the power. Yes. The Leon Edwards left hand, my goodness. Goodness. That left him cold.

And the way he covered distance with that shot, too. He's so good, man. Yeah, he is. And he's so, so excited on the watch. Just like, just like Hoofie. Yeah. Huffy, he's like, I know he lost to Armin, but did you see the one shot he threw from across the canes? He covered like two meters. Yeah.

Hit him in the eye. His eye blew up straight away. It was so like. No, Huffy's dangerous. He's dangerous and long. It's just like Armin had the perfect strategy, the perfect strategy. Just get him up against the cage, land elbows. And the way he, like, went for the single, you know?

And then, you know, he's, like, defending his head straight up in the air. Boom. Catch him with, caught him with one. And he was, like, out cold and he just held him up to hit him with the second one. Yeah. Ammons. Ammon's a beast. And rich. I hate that.

No sense. Grew up really rich. I don't know why. Like, he's just, he's, he's, my life, my life sport. My lifeblood. On this earth for my family is his hobby. And it annoys me. It's like, it just turns up at the highest level to play.

And it kills me. And there's just always this narrative that we were told that, like, rich people can't fight. The rich guy's son is never going to be the toughest guy. It's always the poor guys. Yeah, we, yeah. He fights like he's poor. That's what's crazy. He fights like he grew up in the ghetto.

Yeah. Or he fights like he grew up a super soldier. Right. You know, maybe he's on the other side of the spectrum. Well, maybe, yeah, he got really good training very early on. Yeah. And but also, the thing is, it's like in him. He loves it.

Yes. There's no way you could have the kind of money that that guy has and fight that way unless you really love it. And get through a camp. Right. Like, there are too many moments during camp. I'm like, F this. I need this app to go well. Not only

I'm like halfway there. It's just Well, it's also, it's like he does those Sam Calavito workouts. Do you know those? Do you know what I'm talking about? Okay. So this is this guy who T.J. Dillshaw credits

with a lot of his strength and conditioning and the reason why he had such a crazy gas tank and Aaron Pico, he trains with him. Hamzot trains with him. Hamzot started training with him fairly recently. But Sam Calavita he comes from a cycling background and, you know, like real

scientific approach to cardio. Yeah. And these guys do these fucking insane cardio, strength and conditioning workouts in a garage in California. So you got all these elite fighters in this, you know, middle class residential neighborhood, guy fucking lifts up his garage

door and you got these assassins on your fucking driveway doing, doing like whipping chains and shit and doing all these crazy medicine ball workouts. Yeah. See if he could find some of them. They call it the garage. It's just what it's called, the garage.

And this garage is just filled with strength and cardio equipment. So they're all talking about it here. Yeah. Let me see if you can show some of the workouts. These guys are old cardio machines. Yeah, and it's all in his... Okay, that's not good. But I know from Armin's YouTube channel, he had a bunch of it

where he was training with Hamzat at Calavita's place. Yes. Along with a bunch of Juan Archiletta was there, a bunch of like elite MMA fighters are there trained. And it looks like hell. It looks like just complete, holy hell. Cubs Swanson had an interesting take on it though, because Cub worked out there too. And he said he feels like he had some of his worst performances when he did his cardio sessions there. And he thinks because he just takes too much out of you. He goes, the guy just breaks you down too much. Yeah.

He goes, there's like a fine line, and I think he passes that line. So they seem, just in the street. I think the thing is, though, if you're just doing a cardio-based sport, like cycling, you know, obviously it's power and there's some technique to it, but it's not the same sort of give and take, completely open-ended, you know, improvising thing that MMA is. So you can't just have cardio. You also have the, you have to have the ability to have all of those movements just razor sharp honed. Yeah.

All your skills, razor sharp. And sometimes when you're broken down from strength and conditioning, when you go to do your skills, your skills feel sloppier. They don't feel the same way. You know, like, I know, like, when I used to work out at Carlson Gracie's place, one of the things that I didn't like, no disrespect, but one of the things that I didn't like, no disrespect. But one of the things that I didn't like is they put you through this grueling strength and conditioning thing before you would do your skills. And I was like, hmm, why would you want to be exhausted when you're learning something? Yeah. I think it's a good thing if you're just trying to get in shape and have a real hard workout.

And yeah, you should know what it feels like to wrestle tired. But also, shouldn't you learn all this stuff when you're fresh? Yeah. Because the idea is not to guess, right? Exactly. And that comes from efficiency. Yes. I think if you're going to do strength and conditioning like that, it should be after your skill work.

This is my personal opinion. I think skill work should be done when you're not tired. Definitely. You should learn all those sharp movements, all the counters, all the things. It should be sharp. If you're exhausted and your abs are fucking killing you and your neck is stiff and you're like, it's like you're a little more labored with stuff, you don't have the confidence and you don't have the neural pathway of the sharpness.

You know how sometimes you learn a move, and then you get it, and you finally get it. And then you're hitting pads or something. You just get it. You just get it. It's like, oh, I know that path. I know that path. If all of a sudden that path gets sloppy,

then you start thinking, do I know it? Do I know it the way I think I know it? Can I land this at will? If I see the opening, can I go or will be a fraction of a second slow? Will I be a little off? And you don't want, like if you go into these sessions tired, you don't want to get used to being tired. I know, I know they say you got to train for when you're tired, but you don't want to get used to being tired. Right.

So I feel like that starts you off at like a funny level, you know. And like another thing is, what did you just pull up there, Jimmy? I just ask for flexi if there's any benefits to hard or athletic training, hard cardio before skill work. And it says yes, let me see that. Let me see it says it. Yes, there can be benefits, but it depends on. whether you're trying to learn a skill or execute and establish one under fatigue. Yeah, that's true.

But the thing is you're always learning. That's the thing about technique in terms of MMA. It's like so comprehensive. Hard cardio isn't automatically better preparation for skill work. Fatigue commonly reduces the quality of sports specific technique. That's exactly what we're talking about. And your mental focus, though, that's not limitless. Right.

It's if I, if I, everyone's done a cardio session where it's so hard you start to, like your own brain starts to try to escape on you. Yes. You know, and you find it hard to be in the moment where you are. Yes. Because you just, you're tired.

You're tired. If you take, you take that into a skill session, you're not going to, I personally, I can't, I can't work under it like that because. Yeah,

I think skill is for fresh people. Yeah. And I think there's a real benefit to like flow rolling. There's a real benefit to like shadow sparring. Yeah. where you're just touching and moving, and it's just you're just building pathways in your mind. But then there's also like a giant benefit

to just breaking down the machine and pushing the fucking machine to its red line and forcing it to recover and build a stronger base. And it's a balance, though. I don't think, like whilst it has a place, and I do it as well, I use the assault bikes and treadmills and everything else, I think though if you want to break yourself doing something,

it needs to be in the craft you're doing. Like if you want to get fitter wrestling, you have to wrestle. You have to be put in those positions. If you want to see where your skills take you under fatigue, you have to wrestle too fatigue. You have to grapple too fatigue. Well, that's GSP's approach.

Yeah. Later in his career. Later in his career, you essentially abandoned all the strength and conditioning and just did sports-specific training, just did hard rounds in the bag, hard round sparring, hard rounds drilling.

Because that's also what makes your body hard. Like, you need to be used to contact. Right. There's been heaps of camps where I've, like, torn a calf muscle. So I've done, like, the back end of it just on, like, treadmills and assault. Like, treadmills, concept twos, that sort of stuff. Not treadmill, sorry, concept twos, assault bikes. Too many ski-hugs, too many camps have ended this way.

And it just takes a mental toll on you, having to push yourself to redline in those sessions. The new Subaru Cross-Trek Hybrid is the most fuel-efficient cross-trek yet. That means less time filling. your tank and more time filling your day. More court time, more ride time, more lake time, more camp time, more go time. The new 2027 Subaru Cross Trek Hybrid, Consumer Reports, top-rated subcompact SUV. Stop by your local Subaru dealership or visit Subaru.ca to learn more. Consumer reports that's not indoors products or services. Hold music. Not what you want to hear when a pipe dispersed in your basement is flooding. That's

Why intact insurance answers 2 million claim calls per year within 20 seconds. So instead of hearing this lovely track, you'll hear this in seconds. Hello, Intact Insurance. It's just, well, you know, that brings me to BJ Penn's prime, because one of the things that I've talked about a bunch of times was he didn't really do much sports-specific training in his prime for camps. He would do the camps with Marr Mare Marenevich. And Marrinovich, who is a, his philosophy was, you already know how to fight.

What we're going to do is give you the most insane gas tank and then you're going to go in there free as a bird Because you're never going to think about cardio you just can be able to perform yeah and so it was all pliometrics Yeah crazy pliometrics and all these weird box jumps and all this different shit and every day just getting broken down Broken down every day but he would show up shredded and just just just looking like an absolute demon and he had been doing very little in terms of like sparring very little mid-training. And the philosophy was, you already know how to fight. Like, take that thought and just throw it into this six, eight-week camp of insane cardio and pliometrics. And I think that's where I've kind of pushed my own training in this, in light heavyweight and in the later end of my career.

It's just, it's like being happy, enjoying the process. Because by this stage, I know how to fight, or I'm in trouble. Either I got it by now. Or I'm not going to get it. So it's like we don't need to work skills as much as review, revise, and just practice. So it looks like I do a lot of mitt work. I do a lot of like light sparring movement, shadow sparring sort of work. I do a lot of rounds in the ghee and different positional work.

Really? What is the benefit you think in the ghee for MMA training? If you want to learn jujitsu, I'm a big believer in ghee. I'm big believer in ghee. Obviously, it's different, but a lot of ghee guys can transition from ghee to no gea. Very hard the other way around. Yes. You know, so it's, and I think Damien Ma was a big believer in ghee work.

Wow, a lot of the Brazilians are. Yeah. It's a religion. Yeah. For good reason. Jiu Jitsu is all about the ghee, my friend. You need the geese. Don't abandon the ghee.

Like, people got real mad. I don't know, you weren't around back then. The early days of ghee no ghee, right? The early days. Like, when did you start training? Well, it would have been 2000, like for MMA? Yeah. It would have been like 2015.

Right. So in like 2001, 2002, 2000-ish was when people started doing no ghee. And a lot of the Brazilians did not. Like, yeah. There's a lot of students who don't like it. A loyalty to the ghee that was crazy. So when Eddie Bravo branched off and started 10th Planet, which was 2003, it was very controversial. Like, what is this guy?

This guy abandoned the ghee. It was a real problem, man. That sounds crazy now because there's so many elite Brazilians that are in no ghee. They've kind of, just like they abandon the idea that leg locks are bad. Yeah. If you did a leg lock back then in a tournament, even though it was legal, Everybody would boo. And you're getting beat up afterward probably.

Right. Peel hooks, people would be furious at you. You know what's great about the ghee in terms of, in terms of like a jujitsu side of things, especially like in trend, like four MMA as well, is that you can't make as many mistakes in the ghee. Yes, absolutely. It makes your positioning and your decision making so much more vital. Because let's be honest, if you're an athletic guy, you can get pretty far in no gea. You can explode out of things.

I've explode over a lot of things. I've jumped into beginner classes and a really strong guy will still, like, shove me from Mount or from the half guard because I'm just not ready for him to just bench press me. You know what I mean? It's just like these crazy beginner sort of. Right, but if you're grabbing a hold of his ghee, he's not doing any of that. Yeah, well, you can't make mistakes. If you make a mistake, it gets capitalized on.

And you get into a bad position. Then you're working from that bad position. Like, you're actually punished for everything. I feel like a lot more so. Obviously in Noggi, there's plenty of that as well, especially at the highest level. I think there's definitely something to it. John Jacques Machado's approach was very interesting

because, you know, John Jock was born with only a thumb on his left hand. So he has a right hand that's a full hand, but he was born with just a thumb. So Jean-Jacques never relied on collar chokes and grabbing cuffs. His technique was overhooks and underhooks. So when he went to Abu Dhabi, his technique right into no-gi immediately translated. Because he was using wrestling-based holds.

Yeah. He was a lot of it was overhooks and under-hooks. Same systems. Yes, same systems. So when I learned from him, I did that. I did his style. And I was like, because I'm still going to do no-gee with Eddie. So I was doing no-gey at 10th Planet and I was doing ghee at John Jock's. So I just decided to do it John Jacques style.

And John Jock style was like the ghee is great defensively because you have to have excellent position and you have to have good defense. You have to make sure that you're doing the right thing because you're not going to just yank yourself out of an arm bar. It's not like when you're sweaty and you can just kind of explode out of things, squirm and move real quick. You can't do any of that shit. You're trapped.

So defensively, I felt like it was very, but I also felt like offensively, I should just do all the things that I do no ghee and ignore the ghee and just, except a clock choke. I can't pass up on a clock choke. If I can get that, if I get that grip inside and I get that hand on the other, I'm spin under. Ooh, I love that. That's a ninja move, man. I love me a clock joke.

But other than that, I felt like offensively, in terms of, like, controlling people, I was going to ignore the ghee. I was just going to only use grips that were wrestling-paced grips. And so that's how I proposed. I'm very much the same. And my coach kind of teaches that way as well. Like, all my chokes in the gee even are still just head and arm, really naked chokes.

Like, just the real simple ones. The basics. Yeah. Well, look at Marcelo Garcia. He's like my favorite example. Like, Marcelo, almost all of his victories by submission came from chokes. Almost all of them. He beat Rico Rodriguez in Absolute in Abu Dhabi with a heel hook, which was crazy.

Yeah. But in all the other fights that he had, every one of the submissions, I think, was a choke. I don't think I've ever seen him get anybody in an arm bar. I'm sure he has, but I don't have never seen it. Well, chokes can't be defended. Right. Like, in a lot of high level guys, you'll see let their knees go, let their arms go. Like, especially in fighting, especially in MMA.

How many times have you seen like an arm, like bust out? Yeah. Or like heel hook in the knees go. Cory Sanhagen, blew his knee apart in his last fight. And it doesn't stop the fight though. Right. If you're good, like, you're good. Yeah, until it's over.

But choking. Right. Like you're not. You go out. Yeah, you're gone. Yeah. That's it. It's over.

That was Marcelo's approach. No Kumar's. said, Camor was a strong man move. You have to be strong to pull it off. Yes, you do. So his just whole thing was just get a hold of the necks. High elbow guillotine, rear naked choke, anything you can do, head and arm choke, you know, whatever he could do is just get a hold of the neck.

He had a crazy north-south choke. His north-child choke is excellent. He just figured out how to be like a master-necks wheezer. Yeah, yeah. And just find those right positioning. Some guys are just good at it, though. Like, just like MMA, there are guys that are. born, gifted and talented for the craft.

Like, Craig Jones is a freak. Oh, yeah. He's a freak. He's a freak. But he's also a guy who loves jiu-jitsu. He loves the game and being skillful and setting traps and catching people. He's a nerd for it. He loves seeing the different things, what works, what doesn't work.

Like, he has, his approach to it is so intellectual, but he's good enough to be able to implement it. And he's always having a good time. Mike, he's like he always looks like he's having a good time. He's having a blast. Yeah. He's the funniest fucking guy in Jiu-Jitsu by a long shot. Yeah. Like there's no one even, he's like a professional comedian.

Like he easily, if he retired from competing, could become a professional comic. I really believe that. Yeah. The dude's hilarious. Yeah. When he had that intergender fight with Gabby Garcia and he kissed her and she got mad at him. He's so silly. He's so silly.

But that silliness is like a mask that covers up this assassin. Yeah. Like when you start training with him and like you watch him train with like elite guys and he catches them and stuff, you're like, oh, fuck, man, that's slick. It's like, so I've rolled with him and it's like you're drowning. It's just wondering how this ends. Like what he's going to finish you with? Now what's crazy is imagine Gordon can do that to him.

That's what's crazy. Well, Gordon could do that to everybody. That's what's crazy. I've thought about this. I've thought like, how would I go about fighting those dudes? And I'd be like, I'm doing everything in my power to not get, like, grabbed at all. Because it's over. Once you get sucked into it, you can't play safe with these guys.

Well, especially with Gordon, he's so good at controlling people. Because he doesn't have an athletic-based style at all. Like, he talks about it. He says, I'm not an athletic guy. I don't move fast. So all of my jiu-jitsu is controlled-based. And it's also, when he gets a hold of you, that's it. It's over.

Yeah. Hicks and Gracie said this to me once. It was like the dopeest fucking conversation I ever had with him. I've had a few with him that are pretty cool, but we're over his house. And we're watching some fight tapes. It was me and him and his son, Crone. And we're sitting there and we're watching these fight tapes. And he's explaining what these guys are doing wrong.

He was watching this like Mario Sperry fight. That'd be so cool. It was the dopeest shit ever. That'd be so cool. And he was talking about how these guys are losing position. And he goes, we all started a neutral position. We all start at zero. And he goes, and once I go to one, I'm not going back to zero.

I'm going to two. I'm going to three. I'm going to checkmate. And it was like so intense when he was saying it. It was like, this is a fact. If I get you in a position, you're not getting out of it. And I'm advancing to the next spot. And I'm advancing to the next spot.

and then check meet. And what he was saying, I was like, oh shit. Yeah. It was the dopest conversation. These guys are like samurai's of today. Oh, yeah, man. Like, that mentality they have. Yeah.

That is the way of the warrior. Well, Hickson was a true pioneer, too, with physical training. So Hickson was like the first jujitsu guy to adopt extreme flexibility, yoga, cold plunges. He was doing these cold plunges in the river, Glacial Rivers in Japan before he fought in Japan Valley Tuto. It's in the video.

Before it was cool. There's fucking freezing cold water and he's in there just fucking ha! It's amazing! He was doing neck exercises with like bands where he was like going upstairs

or pulling against a tree with a fucking a thing to control his neck muscles and strengthen his neck muscles. He was doing shit that nobody had figured out. S&C years ahead of the game. Way ahead of the game. Balance work, balance beam,

stuff where he's doing a standing split on a balance beam. Yeah, well, you know, and that sort of stuff is so vital for MMA because you're just, there is no controlled position. Right. Like, because you're constantly moving with, like, obviously the external variable is the opponent who's trying to do things to you. And you're kind of working with that whilst trying to do your own things. And you're never in a position where your body's controlled.

Like, it's very imbalance. So doing a lot of these imbalanced sort of. of exercises and balance exercises where you're strengthening one muscle or flexing one muscle or turning one on. Yeah. They're so important. That's why I think you mentioned it. We started to just beforehand, gymnastics as a baseline for anything.

Yes. Anything is just the best. Yeah, gymnasts are so physically strong. To be able to throw yourself in the air and land on your feet and move around like that. Like that, dude, do the front flip to the ask. Yeah. We found out with breakdancing. So one of the things that happened with Tenth Planet was they started bringing in break dancers.

And Eddie Bravo realized like, oh, my God, Gio Martinez and Richie Martinez, these two guys were excellent break dancers. They do all this crazy shit, like hop on one hand and do like a handstand and do a lotus with your legs without even touching your feet. Crazy stuff. But that ability to control your body. realize, translates directly to Jiu-Jitsu. Yeah, it does. So Eddie started like learning breakdancing to like help Jiu-Jitsu. Eddie's super

open-minded. He'll try anything. And he sees someone that's really good. He's like, what are you doing? How do you do that? Like if someone does something in a class, he'll stop the whole class. Did you make that up? Did you invent that? Yeah. Show us how you do it. And he'll have everybody go through why I do this, but I find that they counter that. So I'm holding it like this now and everybody's like, oh, and then they'll study it and break it down. So he saw

these guys break dance. He's like, wait, wait, Why the fuck are you so strong? Like, what's going on here? So can Eddie break hands? I don't know if you really got good at it, but I know he was definitely learning some of the stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just as a strength and conditioning routine. Yeah, well, I was super lucky.

So early on in my career, like most, MMA was still very new. So the information wasn't out there today. Like today, you can get a full information plan of AI. Right, right, right. And just find out anything you want. But I was super lucky to meet my wife as early as I did, because her background is elite gymnastics. And elite gymnastics, like, they're animals.

Oh, yeah. Their whole life is one long camp because they can't stop, because they can't put on weight, they can't do it. Like, it's just, they're just in it forever until they're not. It is wild. Like, every day is performance-based, like, long hours. So her mentality really kind of led me into my craft and me in my early days. Did she teach you gymnastics?

She tried. She tried. She tried. And there's a look like, she was the one that made me realize how important a strong core is, like a strong core. The core is everything. Like as a person, like just being able to move her and walk around. And especially with the dynamic movements of MMA and fighting. It's like.

So, but she was actually the one that like, she was my nutritionist. She was like my strength and conditioning coach at one point. Wow. Because she had like the health science background. and sports science background. Oh, how convenient. And I was just a poor kid that could fight. That's awesome, though.

What a great combination. Lucky. Super lucky. Yeah, I think a lot of people neglect core work. Like real core, like rotational core work. I know I did for a long time. And I just started doing it a few years ago, like really getting into rotational work. Like a lot of like heavy cable rotational work and kettlebell rotational work.

Man, it just, I was doing it out of necessity because I kept getting injured. getting certain lower back injuries that were like a repetitive use injury and I said I think there's an imbalance you know so a lot of it I was getting from archery so I was getting this tendinitis on my lower right side and what it is is because I'm pulling back with one arm like a hundred times a day yeah and I'm not doing anything on the other side yeah so all my stability is on this side I'm like pulling back on that side and I'm blocking myself in place and it started to fuck with me And so I went to a physical therapist and he started recommending some, and one of them was rotational shit.

Yeah. And then as soon as I started doing it, I was like, why wasn't I doing this my whole life? Exactly. This is so stupid. I'm such a moron. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, it's so vital. It's like all your other physical capabilities get capped at like 80%.

And that, having that strong core just unlocks that. Yeah. It just makes your whole body stronger. And just like living. Living is better. Pick up your kids without pulling a, like, popping a hernia. Yeah. It improves everything.

It really does. They say that like if you do those, you know, those hanging foot to bar moves, just a hanging foot to bar? Yeah. That improves your deadlift. That improves your clean and press. That improves the strength of your chin-ups. It improves everything. Just that one move.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's Dona-Her's number one move. He said the one move that he says is a must, a mandatory for all athletes. You have to be able to do that. What move is this? So you're hanging, chin up bar, you're hanging, and then you lift your feet up and touch the bar with no momentum. So you have to be, you have to stabilize it at the bottom and then pull it all up and stabilize it at the bottom and pull it off. That one movement, because it's so core intensive, that movement right there.

Yeah. So that right there. That's like, it's like what, that's why I have so much to respect. You see those guys that like barkings? Oh yeah, those guys are crazy. They're like holding out full extension of walking. flagpoles. Yeah, man.

And just jacked. He jacked. Like, they must only eat salad. Like, it doesn't look like you could burn a stupid amount of calories just on bars. But you are, right? Because you're building muscle and the muscle requires more calories. And you're essentially, like, lifting your own body weight all day. Those guys do it for hours and hours at a time.

And I guess, like, I guess, like, it, I guess, like, Having any extra weight would affect this the performance of all this stuff by a great degree. What is this guy doing? I don't know. That's just one to their most recent video they put up. He's just got, he's just using his fingers butt to keep balance. He must be some kind of a rock climber. That's freakish. Yeah, some of these do, what is this dude doing?

Hey, bro. Are you trying to die? Are you trying to die? Do you understand electricity? This video. Don't do that. Kids at home, don't do that. No, that is terrible.

How can you do that and not die? Are those not power lines? Maybe the power's out. It took a chance. Now's my time. Maybe it did it properly grounded himself and then went up there for the video. Fuck, do you ground yourself, but you hold it on to those? You ever heard what it sounds like for those guys that have to work on those power lines?

You can just hear the... You hear the... Yeah. And you just imagine the kind of power that's going through those fucking things. Electricity is scary, isn't it? Terrifying. I was an electrician for a little bit. Were you really?

Yeah. Yeah, that's why I started. I was an electrician. No shit. I was electrician as I was like kind of fighting on the local scenes, professional still, but on the local scenes. And then I got the call up for Ultimate Fighter and I said, I'm going to take some annual leave. Went on the Ultimate Fighter. So did you go through an apprenticeship?

Yeah, yeah. I was a fourth year apprentice. So I was supposed to, I was doing my capstone, which is the end test. And I was going to do that. And then the Ultimate Fighter said, all right, come in. Let's go try you out. I went on the show. I applied for annual leave.

Never. Never went back. Never went back. I wonder if they hit my job still there. I have a buddy of mine, my friend. Shout out to Jimmy Dutilio. Back home in Boston, he worked with this guy who lost his face.

He just had just some crazy power thing and just scorched his skin all over his whole face. Just got zapped. Just got electrocuted. Something went wrong. That's crazy. Like, yeah, electricity is just, and because it's not, like, the damage you get, Like, there are heaps of people that can get electrocuted and be fine. And there's heaps that just die straight away.

Yeah. My buddy Remy got hit by lightning. No. Really? Yeah. Yeah, when he was young, I think he was in high school. Wow. He lived.

But he got fucked up and he woke up on the ground and realized eventually what happened. Yeah, wow. Yeah. That's good. That's fucking terrifying. Do you reckon that's a good omen or a bad omen? Neither. If you had to look at it.

It's not good because you guys. hit by lightning. It's not good luck. But you lived. Good luck would be the lightning lands five feet away from you and you're like, fuck, let's get off this mountain. Bad luck is you get hit by lightning, but worse luck as you die. I think bad luck would be turning into some charcoal. Yes. I wonder like, is it just like sometimes you live because like sometimes you don't get a full blasts that like cuts a tree in half? You've seen those? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess that kills you. That seems like that would kill you. I think, I think the lightning has a lot of voltage, not a lot of current.

Oh, as an electrician, you can illuminate us on this. It's the current that kills you. Oh, interesting. What is the difference? I think. What is the difference? The new Subaru Cross Trek hybrid is the most fuel-efficient cross-trek yet. That means less time filling your tank and more time filling your day.

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So instead of hearing this lovely track, you'll hear this in seconds. Hello, intact insurance. I can't tell you right now. Well, you're looking pretty smart five minutes ago. I've been out of the game for a little bit. For a hot minute. I think it's probably you have a heart attack. It's probably what it does to a lot of people.

And it burns you, obviously. Obviously. Yeah, I think it probably just short-circuits your entire system. Yeah. Well, that's what a D-Fibb is, right? It's like literally trying to short circuit your heart back. Have you ever seen the video? This is one guy.

I think he's in his driveway. He's walking down the driveway. He gets hit by lightning. Falls the ground, goes out, wakes up, starts walking again, gets hit again. Two kids hit twice. Like, what are the fucking odds? I hope it's real. Once you say one of the odds, the odds are very low, but I think it's not real.

Well, it's an old video. The only reason why I don't think it's AI, it could be fair. You pissed someone off to get hit by him twice. You did something bad. You cheated on your taxes. You did some fraud. If you're not going straight to confession afterwards? Yeah, you stole something.

You did something, man. You kicked a cat when no one was watching. The two strikes and catching it on video are like impossible. But I thought it was a security camera. It was in his driveway. People fake that all the time. No, no, no. Those are all real.

No, those are all real, Jamie. Shut the fuck up, Jamie. See, look, he got back up and he was about to get hit again. I don't think that's the guy. No, people fake this all the time. Bro, you can kill that guy with a balloon. That guy is not getting hit by lightning and living. I think he's got scorch marks.

Oh, fuck off. Look at the homemade scorchmarks. Look at the homemade scorch marks. I was getting falls down, too. Bitch-ass fake fall. This one actually is not getting hit twice. This is a more recent one, but... That probably is real.

I'm just kidding. I get sucked into these videos all the time. I'm sorry, sir. If you got hit by lightning and I'm mocking you, we're just having fun. It's all love. I'm sorry as well. We're just joking around, sir. If that really was, I hope he really didn't get hit by lightning.

I hope he faked it because it's not funny. Getting hit by lightning's not funny. If you live, it's all right. I guess. If he died, it would have been bad. Yeah, this is the guy. Yeah, that's not. Shut up, Jamie.

This is real. You don't know shit, Jamie. This is real. So the guy gets up and he starts walking. Now watch this. He gets hit again. I'm pretty sure this is real, Jamie. Is having the unluckiest day of the...

his life. Bro, that's real. That's as real as the baby Jesus. He's been struck twice. It's real. Jamie. Watch him get struck a third time. Come on, Jimmy.

Tune in next week. Shut up. Why are you ruining everything? Dude. I think that one's real. Yeah, that one's real. Yeah. Imprescent.

Oh, my goodness. It's a fucked up way to go. Yeah. It's a fucked up way to go. Yeah. It's a pair of smoking shoes. That's why tasers are wild. Like, you ever see him like a dude who's like methed up, it gets tased and he just

starts screaming and pulls the things out of his body? Yeah. Like, how come? There's like six, six cops and they're just like, too, pz. Like, ah, fuck. He's in that Hulk rage moment, like. Yeah, but some people, they just, just shut off and go straight down to the ground.

I want to, in, in my head cannon, I'm that, like, I just, I just, rip it off, I take it, and I'm probably just like, ugh. I'm pretty sure I fall down. I'm sure it fall down still as a board. I fall down immediately. You know what? It's not even getting that far. I'm putting my hands.

I'm just right. What am I doing? Yeah, don't tase me. I'm happy to comply. Fuck. Yeah, it's just like some people, like Dana White on his show, Dana White's looking for a fight, they all got tased once. Yeah, it was him.

I don't ask you if you have done it because it seems like a crazy thing. No, I'm not interested in. I just didn't get him fucking tased. That seems ridiculous. That doesn't seem fun at all. It's just like, I don't want to have a heart attack either. Like, what if you get a heart attack? Because it can happen.

I think you can. This is the tough situation. This guy is not applying. He's pretty jacked too. Dude, look at the size. Oh, no, he's ex-Army. I think I've seen this. He's like ex-Navy SEALs or something.

He's about to try to taste him. And he's got like PTSD. Yeah, he's having a problem. And he's barefoot. Yeah. He's earthing. It doesn't work. You better run.

And you know what's crazy? Like, he's a big unit, too. Yeah, he's a big fucker. And why did they send four women cops to deal with it? I like how he's still holding his phone, too. Did you say what do you say? Taze me all day. I love pain.

Oh, fun. Some people have just built. Yeah, I don't understand that. So is it some people's bot? Because I thought it didn't, until I saw a few of these guys online, my original ignorant thought was, once they tase you, you get zapped, no matter how tough you are.

Your muscles contracting you're gone. Everything just fall down. Yeah. That's it. No. Apparently not. No. I saw people like,

fuck this. Yeah. That guy didn't even seem bothered by it. No. Didn't flinch. That's great. Let me see that again. Let me see him get tased.

You sure that's real? I think the lightning is real and that one's fake, Jamie. I think you're right. How about that? Honestly, this guy gets struck by lightning. It's called pain tolerance, he said. I don't reckon he takes a knee if he gets struck by lightning.

But they haven't tased him. At that point they did. Where did they got our own math. Let me see. Oh, yeah. Oh, you can see him spaz out and react. You know what he's funny? They might not have gone into them, though, it was also the thing.

It's if you pull it out that easy. When the guys, like, try to make a leg for it, they try to make a bolt for it. And they get hit mid-strily. Yeah, that's fun. Those are fun. It says, he said, get down on the ground. He goes, negative. That's not good.

That's not good. He's being salty. I'm calling this in. I'm going to need back up. Well, he's just depending upon them not shooting him. That's the problem. It's like... I don't think he cares either.

Well, he should definitely care about that. Because I don't care how tough you are. Yeah. Guy unloads his magazine into you. You're going to be dead. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I don't...

He's depending on them... Well, who knows what the fucking scenario was? I don't know. Maybe he's right. Who fucking knows? Sometimes people get pulled over for bullshit reasons and they're right to get pissed off. I don't know what happened there. But from my own observation,

looks like the man's a tad unhinged. Yeah. And he's too big to be unhinged. Yeah. He's a monster of a man. Yeah. I was getting real screw vibes. Stephen Strue.

Right, right, right. Strew vibes from that guy. Stefan Strue, I forgot about him. Yeah. There's a few of those guys that fought in the UFC that was just so fucking dull. Remember Semi Shilt? No. Semi Shilt, elite kickboxer, K-1 champion.

from Holland, nasty front kick, seven feet tall. He was so big. He was just ridiculously tall. And he just would step forward and throw these front kicks and fuck you up with them. Yeah. I feel like I would have been such a good tall fighter. You know what I mean? If I just had like an extra foot or just give me an extra inch, I reckon I could have did some really cool things.

How hard was it for you to stay at 170? Like what was your 170 cut like? Oh, it was not. What did you start off at? It's a sort of thing. Obviously, when I started, when I was at 170, I was, I started when I was a teenager, so I started at 18, and then I went, I was thinking I was 170 until about 23. And it was just getting harder and harder.

You know, as you age, you just get bigger and bigger. And I've always been like a naturally heavy guy, heavyset guy. I think it's my moldy jeans. And the last weight cut I did was seven. 7.4 kilos on the day. Ooh. So that's... 16 pounds?

17 pounds? What is that? Yeah. That's a lot... In one day. Yeah, like morning off. Yeah. So that was...

What year was this? I would have been 24. 24. So, what, 2000? So you had, like, great performances at Welterweight, like, really promising performances. But for sure, when you went up to 85, that's when you became... Robert Whitaker. That's when you really became. For certain. Yeah. It's like you had found the sweet spot.

Yeah. And some people, there's that, the gaps are so enormous between weight classes, which I think is a real problem. Yeah. 15 pounds is a lot of weight. Yeah. In boxing, that would be three or four weight classes. Yeah. Whereas in MMA, it's one. And the 70 to 85 gap is big, but the 85 to 205 gap is bananas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it is. It is. But I was always kind of cutting down from a 205er, 285. And it just got harder and harder. You know what I mean? Especially with, because I've been,

I've been fortunate and blessed enough to fight for a long career. And I've been able to have a ton of fights. So to, you just kind of get sick of cutting weight constantly. Of course. And the camps themselves are tricky because, like, you're trying to fuel yourself for the sessions, but you can't eat too much.

Right. And food is a direct. link to like recovery and performance. So that was one of the biggest things I noticed moving up to light heavyweight was that the camps were just so much better. So I can just eat, I can eat carbs, I can eat carbs, I can just fuel my body, you know, and my body was stronger during the camp, I had more energy during the camps. Like I didn't really, the weight cuts were kind of the same because I still wanted to have

some size and have some weight behind me. So I still made the weight cut. It's not like I just walked in there. But your body's more or less filling into its natural state. Yes. Rather than staying in its constantly depleted state. Exactly. Like especially at 170, what did you walk around at?

I want to say it would have been like 94-ish kilos, 92-ish kilos. What is that, Jamie? Well, what? 194. About 198, something like that. 1-98. So close to 200 pounds, so close to 30 pounds of cutting. Yeah.

That's a lot. Yeah. And then as well as because I've been in the game for so long, and you want to send better than most, like there's life going on around you. I don't know what it was because the last few middleweight camps I had did not enjoy them. The cut, the diet, the training, fatigue. I've got a bunch of kids at home trying to hang out with six kids when I'm this fatigued. Starving. It was just you kind of get sick of it.

You get burnt out a little bit from. from that style thing. And one of the big things that, I don't know why, it seems like a small thing, but one of the big things that made me, like, sad was that I went to my cupboard and nothing fits because I get fitted for suits when I'm, like, trim, when I'm lean,

when my shorts are in. So, like, if I'm walking around my normal weight, I don't have clothes. And I know how stupid that sounds, how little that is. But it made me sad. Like, at the end of this career that I've had, like I've been in the UFC for 15 years, end of my career, I'm going to have no clothes. And it made me, I was like, I was upset.

I was like, that's hilarious. It's just, it doesn't really make sense, but it made sense to me. It made me upset. That's why that was another thing where I was like, I'm going to, I want to go, I want to walk around and have clothes. I want to, I want something to show for this. Don't you think that MMA would be better in just? general if there was a way to stop weight cutting, just avoid it. And then you fight at what you actually weigh when you're at your healthiest.

You'd have to have way more options for weight glasses, for sure. And there would have to be some way to monitor to make sure that people aren't dehydrating themselves. Almost like, you know how we're talking about how drug-free sport or USADA could just randomly drug test you? Yeah. They show up and drug test. They should be able to randomly weigh you to show up. Just here. Get down in your underwear.

Get on the scale. Oh, you're fighting at one. but you weigh 208. That's not right. But then... You should be fighting at 205. But then that takes to weigh a lot of free agency

from the athlete. Like... Does it though? Because you could change your body weight if you so choose, right? Like you see a lot of these like you know,

like Dave Batista, the wrestler who's enormous at one point in time. Now he's slimming down and getting shredded so he could take on more roles, more complex acting roles. Yeah.

That could be done. Like you could do that as a... professional fighter as well. You can do a lot more cardio and get your body down to a healthy level of whatever it is. Whatever weight class you're at your best. But then when you jump on that family holiday, that family cruise, you're at the salad bar the entire time. That doesn't sound super fun. That doesn't sound super fun.

But I mean, I don't think, I don't advocate that. I'm saying be healthy and eat food. Yeah. But be at a weight. That's a real, like if everybody just fought at the weight they are when they're in shape, and eating the adequate amount of food to fuel you, like a real full meal. Like full meals every session, eating fruit, getting in your carbs, drinking tons of water, never being dehydrated, but this is what you weigh with, you know, 10% body fat, natural,

healthy fit. What is that? That should be how everybody fights. Yeah, I guess in a perfect world, like, I have zero idea on how you would implement something like that. I don't either. Like, no answers. And I've thought about, obviously, this has been a question in the MMA world for the

longest time. And in all sports with weight divisions, really. Of course. But it's just, it's just, you also then look at human nature and it's just our tendency to push the envelope. Especially in a sport that has been predicated on that. Yeah. People have been doing that forever. They've been cutting massive amounts of weight forever. Yeah, well, I guess maybe because the sport sprouted here, right? It's this, it's taken a lot of the wrestling mentality. Exactly. And weight cuts and weight divisions and all that into the sport itself. But I definitely feel like you see more of that, like that dichotomy of that kind of scenario of more natural weight classes, the higher up you go in the weight divisions.

So you see more in like heavy weights where guys are, they're more normal weight class or especially in heavy weight. They're all, they're all just big boys. Right, right. You know what I mean? Yeah. And some look like over him. Yeah.

And some look like, I don't know, Pat Barry. He's the best. The Uberim, the Uberium days is the best argument for keeping steroids in sports. It's like, come on. Don't you want to see that again? Like, what are we doing? We were talking about this last night at the club. The Pride days.

Yeah. The Pride heavyweight days was the greatest heavyweight lineup in the history of the fucking sport. It doesn't it seem like everyone was a heavyweight? There were so many heavyweights, man. Well, first of all, they would encourage you to, gain weight. Yeah. Like one of the guys from Eddie's gym, Jason Chambers, fought over there.

And when he fought over there, they're like, you should be 185. And he's like, I'm not 185. And they're like, you should get on steroids. Tell it them. We can make you. We can make you 185. Ensign Inouet when he did the podcast. He told me very specifically that in the contract it said in capital letters, we do not

test for steroids. It was like in capital letters later We're all good Rock and roll And you saw those fights They were mental Amazing amazing Mental and the greatest heavyweight division

That has ever been assembled Mirko Krocop in his prime Fador in his prime Nogara in his prime Vandale Well Vandalee was really shouldn't have been fighting at heavyweight But he did He fought Mark Hunt

Remember that fight? Oh Jesus But he fought Mark Hunt I was like, oh my God, getting hit by Mark Hunt. When you're a 185 pounder, that is crazy. Fadour. Bro, Fador. Jesus.

Oh, my goodness. When he got knocked out by Kro Kopp, when he got head kicked, when Vandali got head kicked, it was like, good Lord. Yeah, it got folded. Crocop's head kicks was just insane. Roodle. But what a twist of fate the way that he got head kicked. By Gonzaga.

Yeah. Like, it was such a thing because that's his thing. He got Kroko. You can't, you can't crocop. Crow Cup? I know. And by a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt, nobody expected him to win that way. Yeah, it was wild. A lot of people forget about Gonzaga.

Gonzaga was a fucking beast, man. He was a beast. That's the answer to white divisions. Absolute. Right. But some guys can't do it. T.J. Dillshaw can't fight absolute, but he can be one of the elite of all time at Bantamate.

You know? Yeah, here's Mark Hunt and Vandale. Bro. Markov was so big. It was 265 and Vanitylai was fighting 185 or 205. And it's Mark Hunt. Like he just, he's not a fun fight ever. No.

Well, first of all, almost impossible to hurt. Because that guy got head kicked by Crow Cop and just went, well, good shot, got back up. Good one. Good one. Got back up. It was fine. Good one. And I think he got head kicked with shoes on.

It's back when they were wearing wrestling shoes, you know, and still was fine. Bro, he was a tank. He could eat them. You could eat those shots. And he had touch of death. Touch of death. And one of the greatest walk-offs in the history of sport, he would KO you and just go, oh, you're gone and just turn around and just walk away.

Even if you weren't gone, he'd still just walk away. And the referee would stop it because he'd be on your back, like, where's you going? And the referee would be like, that's it. No, you're dead. He called the fight. Yeah, yeah. There's some of those walk-offs, you're like, I don't know if that's a real chaos. Yeah.

Like, maybe that guy could have, if he got on top and kept going and just covering up, it might have lasted to the end of the round. There are plenty of times I see a walk of K-O, and you're exactly that. You know how sometimes guys come back after getting hit a couple more times? So they come back and then you've gassed yourself, and then you're in for another four rounds. You know the best example that is?

Anderson Silva, Michael Bisping. Yes. He hits him with a flying knee. It looks like he's K-Oed. It looks like the fight is over, but Herb Dean did not stop the fight. I think it was Herb Dean. And then Anderson hops up on top of the cage and is celebrating.

Yeah, he's like, yeah, he's ready to hit the shower. Bispin comes back in the next round and wins it and wins the decision. Yeah. With one fucking eyeball. Animal. How does that mess you up mentally if, because I know the feeling of winning. Here it is. He lost his mouthpiece, boom.

He gets caoed and Anderson walks off. Like, that's it. And Herb Dean said, no, it's not over. So Anderson takes his mouth. mouthpiece out. Oh, he's doing his thing? Yeah, he's doing his thing. He thinks it's over.

How does that, how does, how does, how does that affect you? If like, if you're, if you're there, because the feeling you get, so look at this, he hops up in the cage, he thinks it's over. He thinks it's over. The feeling you get, the high you get when you win a fight is ridiculous. So if he's, if he's feeling that now, well, he obviously is. He's sitting on the cage. Right, they're telling him, and he's saying it's not over.

Look, he goes, fuck, he realizes it right now. It's not over, which is crazy. Yeah. Because if he just followed up with one or two shots, 100% it would have been over. Yeah. But didn't the bell buzzer go when he landed that knee? Maybe, yeah, I think you're right. I think it's like right there.

Yeah. I think you landed the knee and then the buzzer went off, like, right afterwards. Mark Hunt's walk-offs were like, I've had enough of this. Yeah. Like, upper cuts. It's like, he's called it over. Yeah. It's like, this is over.

Crazy, man. Crazy. What a fucking animal. Maybe the most mentally tough guy that's ever fought in sport. Just to be able to do that with one eye, he fought 11 fights with one eye. Yeah. And didn't tell anybody. Memorize the eye chart.

Really? Yeah. Memorize the eye chart so he could do it with his eye closed. I guess you have to. But no. It's crazy. Don't they randomize what kind of... I don't know.

Or maybe just like, eh. Maybe they don't. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Do they randomize eye charts? What kind of an asshole is going to memorize the eye chart? I bet they don't. I bet they don't think anyone's going to try to cheat it.

I bet they just have an eye chart and he fucking memorized it. Wherever doctors, they're probably like, oh, they didn't change it from last time. Yeah. Yeah, I guess. Maybe. I mean, but I think he memorized. But just the will to do that, what you've already lost sight in one of your eyes. And to continue to fight and know, potentially, you could lose sight in the other eye.

You know, that's what. Did he lose his vision from... He's gone. No, like from a shot. Was it an eye poke or a punch? Vitor. He got head kicked. Yes, that'll do it.

Yeah, he got head kicked and there was the first of many eye surgeries. So I remember he was... I met him backstage after one of those fights when he had had one of his first surgeries and he had like oil in his eye. They had injected something in his eye to protect his eyeball. It was crazy. Like his eye look really strange. I was like, what's going on with your eye?

And he was explaining to me, he had this surgery and to protect his eye. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think by that time he had already gotten, uh, lost a lot of his vision. According to a comment and I read it. Yeah. He said the doctor was out of the office. Bisping went right up to it and memorized the eye chart. Yeah, I think that's what he did.

If it's on, if it's on Reddit, you can take that to the back. Well, how about Shara Bullitt? Shara Bullitt, who's fighting Izzy, he's only got one eye too. Yeah, when's that, is that, uh, is that, uh, I think so. Well, he has to fight over there. I don't think he's allowed to fight over here. I think if you fight over here, you're blind in one eye. They won't let you fight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's beating, like, top-level guys with one fucking eyeball. Yep. He's another guy who got tuned up by Michael Venom-Page. Yeah. Yeah. Michael Venom Page is just looks so annoying to fight. Because, obviously, it's a point of pride that I'll fight everyone and anyone. But then people are like, Like, what about Michael Finna Paine's? I'm like, yeah, there's this other guys. I only want to fight guys.

MVP's another guy that they didn't offer a contract to. Same thing. He won his last fight. Oh, no, really? Yeah. I mean, he only lost once in the UFC. And that was to Ian Gary. Yeah.

And they didn't offer him a contract. He's gone. Is he? Yeah, he's gone. I didn't know that. Same kind of deal. Yeah, just point sparring. They just decided that they don't want to see that.

Point fighting. You know, but my take is, we have to be purists about this. Fighting is fighting. And if someone has a style like that, it's up to someone else to figure out how to beat it. Douglas Lima figured out how to beat it in Bellator. He leg kicked him and caoed him. And then he beat him in a rematch as well. That's always been my take, like, if I had to look to dissect him.

Because when I was a middleweight, obviously, I'm doing that with most of them. It's leg kicks. Agile guys, agile guys, good footwork. You've got to chop the tree down. Have to. You've got to. It's the only way. You've got to slow those feet.

And most people don't realize when you're watching it because the guys are moving around, they look normal. They're so compromised. Like one or two, hard calf kicks. Yeah. You're so compromised. Carf kicks are the worst, aren't they? Crazy. Like one good calf kick?

Not only do you run the risk of like breaking that, what is it, fibia? I don't know what it is. Tibia and fibula. One of them. Yeah. You are like, because that's like breaking that's real. Yeah. Like breaking that's real.

But it hurts. And it just stuffs you up. And your leg doesn't work right. You see that all the time where guys just, their leg doesn't work right right now. They're trying to move around. It's just not responding correctly. So most of their weight is on their other leg and they're faking it. They're like faking their movement.

Yeah. And once that legs compromised, it opens you up to more leg kicks. Yeah. Like it's harder to defend the next calf kick. What protest did to Jack. My God. When Jack went back to the corner. and he yelled at the end of the round, like, hey, don't fucking yell.

Like, no, ah. Don't say ah when he kicks you. Don't do that. But it was so much pain. I was saying, ah. I was watching it and saying ah. He was just punishing that leg. Punishing them.

And that was always, like, a hole Jack had to fill. It was very boxing style. Boxing heavy on the front leg. And he just, yeah. The thing, too, is like, those guys who are really good at switching stances, have a giant advantage. If you're one of those guys that must stand orthodox or must stand Southpaw and you get that front leg compromise and now all of a sudden you're in a bad position, you're 50% of what you really are. Yes. And guys like TJ Dilleshaw, they're

constantly switching. Guys like Corey Sanhagen, constantly switching. So they're comfortable from any stance. That is such an advantage. It's such a huge part of the game. You know, in that for second fight with Izzy, he got me with a switched, switched left straight down the point. I left straight down the pipe. And the switching put me off. I think Drickis did it a few times as well. He switches pretty well. You're exactly right.

It is such a powerful maneuver, an ability to do. Because for that split second, when you see them switch, you have to take your strategy and then move over to your Southport strategy. Right. Instantaneously. And then take it into consideration that all these punches are coming at totally different angles now. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

And all your attacks come at totally different angles now, too. because you're dealing with a completely different defensive position. Exactly. And then how fast you make that adjustment is obviously where fight IQ and everything else comes into it. It's just, it's make or break.

And it seems to be really popular right now. I feel like guys coming into MMA are like really big switch hitters. Like they're starting it. Because it takes a while. It takes years of practice to get comfortable in both sides. So I can fight in Southpore, but my defensive game isn't anywhere near as good as my orthodox side. And that's kind of what you need when you're standing in a different sense.

Well, that's one of the reasons why Terrence Crawford is so great, is that, you know, his coaches told him, hey, man, stop fucking around with Southpaw. Just stick to one side. He's like, what? Fuck you. Figure it out. And so he got to a point where he's like, he's the best switch hitter since Marvin Hagler. Yeah. Like he could switch up with, and so you don't know what's coming.

Like he'll start off and fight Southpaw. And you're like, oh, he's fighting Southpaw. Yeah. And then all of a sudden he's Orthodox. And he stuns you. Now, South Paul again. Now he's Orthodox again. He's just switching back and forth.

And combinations are coming freely from both sides. Like, it's such an advantage. Because it's like, fighting Southpals and fighting Orthodox fighters, they're like two different strategy sets. Like a South Pole game and an Orthodox game, they're very different. Very different shots. Very different openings. Like very different opportunities.

And especially in MMA where wrestling is obviously prevalent. So having that lead leg not there. Like if you're an orthodox guy and you're used to shooting on that orthodox side, that lead leg, that lead left leg, and they switch, your takedown games are off. And if you're a wrestler, that's tough. Yeah, I would feel like if you're a young fighter and you're just learning right now, my God, start switching. Yeah.

There's no reason to not do it. I think that's what they're all doing. I think they have to. There's a lot of like orthodox, like right-handed kids that are just, learning starting in south pole now but then part of me says but what if you just developed such an elite style with one stance like that there's something to that too yes just getting so good at checking kicks and so rock solid in one stance yeah like perera it doesn't he doesn't switch very rarely yeah very rarely if he does it's just like wally's throwing combinations he'll switch

a little bit but it's generally that left hook is coming out of nowhere and that right hand And that calf kick, that's so weird. He's hitting you with, like, the big toe. Yeah. Because his big toe's like this big. He's seen the size of his feet, man. He's, like, digging the side of his foot into your calf. Yeah, and that protrusion of, like, where his toe connects.

Oh, man. Yeah. Hard as a rock. He's got, like, a foot built for that kick. He's got, like, a little hammer. Yeah. He's, like, tagging your calf muscle with it. And his posture doesn't break at all, because he's got long legs.

He's tall, obviously. and he can just chip away to like a jab. He doesn't need a close distance, doesn't need a back away. Body posture, body positioning doesn't change. For striking, the tall, long stance is such an advantage. Yes. It's a giant advantage. And you can speak to that because you've been in situations where you've had a spar

and when you're or fight people that are much taller than you, it's such a weird thing. They're so far away from you and they can hit you and you can't hit them. So you have to do all these things to try to get in and get really. reads out of them. I've never lost to someone shorter than me. Here, look that up. It's such an advantage, my mom. That's one of the things why I moved up to light heavyweight is because in middleweight,

I was fighting, everyone was taller than me anyway. Like Derrida, Izzy, Drikas, Jamev, they're all taller than you. They're all 6-2, 64. So there wasn't much change. There wasn't much difference. These guys are just bigger, obviously, heavier, and slower. Well, the freak of the difference. division is Bulgari.

Bulgaris? You know, that really tall dude for, is a kickboxer? Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yes, come over. How do I, am I pronouncing his name incorrectly? There's so many names in the UFC that I fuck all of them up. I combine them all together, even ones that I know. It's just like my brain doesn't recognize it.

It's because there's also like a ton of the same names in there. Yeah. But there's that many silvers and oliveras. There's a lot of silvers, a lot of oliveras. There's a lot of Nermigamadoffs now, which is a mouthful. Nermegomedemadov. Oh, my goodness. You'll see Bulgaria.

That's how you say his name. I'm pretty sure. He is the really tall kickboxer that's Alex Pereira's training partner. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So he's like 6'6, and he's fighting at 185. Yeah. Just like Pereira was. Exactly.

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How do you think his transition will be? Well, fortunately, he's training with Pereira, right? And they both were training with Glover, which I think was a big thing. Big part of it, because Glover-Teshire for like six years, people don't realize this. Before he even got to the UFC for six years, Glover-Teshire was the boogeyman. He was the guy that everyone was terrified of, but he couldn't get out of Brazil. So he couldn't get a visa to come to America for whatever reason. So he couldn't fight in America.

So he was just training and fighting in Brazil, and everybody would talk about when you He would talk to the high level guys, like, who's the scariest guy that's not in the UFC? He's, Glover. Glover's a fucking monster. By the time he got to the UFC, he was already in his mid to late 30s. So he had already, and he won the title in his 40s. Right? So he had already passed his prime, probably, you know.

And he is so knowledgeable. He obviously elite Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt, phenomenal wrestling, and then great striking as well and knows how to combine the two of them together. And so with him, work. with Alex, I think it really sharpened his striking skills. And that's when he won the title. And then on top of that, like when he beat Janbo-Hovic,

and then on top of that, him working with Alex really tightened up Alex's take-down defense, really tighten up his grappling game. They kind of filled each other's holes. Yes. And they're both like super elite at what they do. And both very smart. Jiu-Jitsu top game was crazy. Insane. He'd take you down and he's not like a lay and pray sort of guy.

He gets you down and he's gone beat you up. Yeah, he was malling people. Like that Anthony Smith fight? Oh, God. Oh, yeah. And again, he was a guy that was Chuck Liddell's training partner way back in the day. Yeah, yeah. That's why I heard about him. He's an old head from the pit days with John Hackleman way back in the day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'd heard about Glover way back then and they were like, dude, this guy's a motherfucker, man. Yeah. And it took forever for him to get to the UFC. Yeah, yeah. And so him training was so Bulgaria's training with Pereira and Glover, I think, is a giant. I'm saying his name, right?

I think so. But pull up his last fight because he, I'm trying, I can't remember the dude's name. He, yeah, that's it, Mansor, Abdul Malik. And Abdul, you're see Bulgari. And Abdul Malik is super talented and massive potential. And Bulgaria just tuned him. up, man. Just tuned him up. It's just the difference in striking was so different. I mean, he has a victory over Pereira in kickboxing. Pereira stopped him in one of the fights,

knocked him out cold, but they fought three times, but he's that good. So he's that elite on his feet. And he's super tall. And because of all the training that he's had with Glover, like, look at this. Take down defense, phenomenal. Get back up to his feet quickly, separates. He's fighting it well. And Malik is an excellent wrestler. He's really good and really strong and super athletic and had up until this point been undefeated was mauling people inside the UFC But Yersey just put it to him man and it was a bad one too because Abdul Malik is so tough that he endured maybe more punishment than he should have and really got badly beaten up in this fight When you're that tall as well you can get such power like these fucking knees you got such big levers Yes like Tommy Hurons

You know, that like you're getting all that leverage behind those shots, the wide shoulders and the length of the arms and it's all like accelerating to the target and all your weights. Look at that left hook. Oh, my goodness. So it's just a matter of time. He just keeps getting touched over and over and over again. And Bulgaria is just doing it so slick. And it was just a brutal, brutal beat down. And then he came back, Abdul Malik came back, I think, a little too soon.

in his next fight and lost again just didn't seem like the same guy. He was just getting... And survived too many of these, man. Too many of these moments where he was getting just destroyed. Yeah. And now he's screaming at him while he's down.

Oh, Jesus. He was saying he was out. I think that might have been the end of the round. No, it was, but I think he was also saying he was out. Yeah, I wasn't calling it. I think he was. He certainly was close to it. And then he got beat up again in the next round.

Tight kickboxing hook. Exactly. It's just when, you know, And you can speak to this. When you're fighting a guy who's not a, that's on his base, you can get so good. If you're a wrestler and you start striking when you're 28, you can get pretty good. But there's stuff that happens in a long, prolonged fight where these series of exchanges, where there's openings that you're going to leave that you're not aware of.

And then a striker, a season striker, is going to be able to capitalize. And you throw in fatigue as well. Right. When you start relying on instincts and things, like you start like sleepwalking almost. You get that tired. Right. Yeah. If you're going to go back to the roots to what got you to where you are.

Right, right, right. Especially when you're tired. And when a guy's tired but he's very efficient at striking, you could still throw tight combinations. You don't get wild and loose. Yeah. Which is one of the craziest things about Strickland. Like when he's tired, he gets wild and loose.

Yeah. Just like literally like windmill punches at an elite level. And it looks like from all the, like from the clips and his Instagram, he spars like that too. Yeah. Like he's just, he's just like gassed and throwing bombs. Like, and he's always sparring. I know, always. Always sparring.

That's a main part of his training. But I guess, like if you have his style, you can spar more than others, right? Yeah. You're not taking the head trauma that his partners are. That's true. That's one of the things that he spoke to. He said he spars more than anybody and he gets hit less than anybody. Yeah, yeah.

And yeah, that's... There's something beneficial. I think his sparring partners probably shouldn't be sparring as much. But, I mean, look, if you could train with that guy, you're going to learn some stuff. Yeah, yeah. That guy, that's like battle tested. He's been in so many fucking wars. He's going through something with the UFC right now where, like, he says his heart isn't in MMA anymore.

He wants to get out. He wants to be able to box Jake Paul. Oh, I don't know. I don't know. He's the one guy that... He says some wild crap, but a lot of it happens. Like, he gets away with it. Like, when he said, I'm just going to sit out until I get my title shot.

And I was like, I don't need it. What are you doing? What are you doing? Lo and behold, two years later, he's fighting for the belt. Right. Like, straight up. I don't know. At the end of the day, he's a fan favorite, and that's a big factor.

If you're trying to sell a fight, and the UFC needs to sell fights. Yeah. And if you've got a world champion, you know, like Hamzot, and you need someone to fight him, who better to sell the damn fight than Sean Strickland? He's going to talk mad amounts of shit. And it's going to be racist. It's going to be racist.

And you know, that gets people watching. Oh, yeah. Just because of the controversy of it all. Well, he knows how to stir up the pot. Oh, my goodness. That's for sure. Doesn't he?

Were you surprised by the Hamzaff fight? As everyone else was. Yeah. Like, I don't know what to take. from it? Like, I think Hamzat lost too much weight. That's what I had heard. I had heard he had given up on 185 and he wanted to go up to 205 and challenge for the belt and was training and preparing for that. And then they offered him a big money fight with Strickland and he decided to take the fight with Strickland, but I don't think they gave him a lot of time. I don't, I don't think they gave, I think for that guy,

he gets so fucking big that I think he needs a lot of time to get down to 185. That makes more sense to me than Strickland having the perfect. anti-Chemoyev game. Well, do you remember when Chimayev missed weight with Nate Diaz by like eight pounds? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's that kind of thing.

It's like what he was doing was kind of bananas. Yeah, which is crazy because he started at Walterweight. Mm-hmm. Same thing. He did that fight island, Walterweight, middleweight back to back. Yeah. Which kind of put him on the map and then he disappeared for a little bit. Yeah, well, you know, I mean, he's a controversial character, to put it lightly.

Yeah, very. But God damn, when he's on, like when he picked up the leech and he carried him over to Dana White and he's just talking shit while he's mauling him. Yeah, yeah. When you have that level of control, and I'm going to jump back to that Drikas fight. It's just... Nuts. To do that to Drikas, to the champion. I know.

Like, it wasn't... It was crazy. Yeah. And even the closest round, which was round five, a lot of those positions were given to him taken away from him. taken away from him by the ref anyway. Right. Like, the ref was like, all right, here you go. Here's a shot for you, oh, Drickis.

Well, it was almost like it was enough, like enough control. Like, come on, we want to see something happen. Get up. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I want to get your opinion on. What do you think about that pressure hold game? Like, because I, like, if someone walks into your house and holds you down for 15 minutes,

you're in trouble, like, regardless. Yeah. But, like, where does it stop of, like, where it's not fighting anymore? Right. It's just control. Yeah. Where is that? It's a good question.

Yeah. I am a purist. And I believe if someone could hold you down like Ben Askeran used to do in Bellator and just give you no-by-the- Rules for five rounds. That's it. Like, and if you want to get up, figure out a way to get up. And if you can't get up, well, you're definitely losing. Yeah.

You might not be losing the way Gonzaga beat Procop. Yeah. But you're losing. You're losing the fight. And I think you have to be a purist. You can't do it entire. And they go, whoa, no, people stop tuning in. No, they won't.

Because most people aren't going to fight like that. Yeah, yeah. People might boo. Okay, let them boo. Yeah. This is what fighting is. People are going to boo anyway. They're animals.

They're always wanting something to boo about. Well, it's like, if you had a fight like that after, like, did you see the Salt Lake City card? When was that? That was recently, like, a couple weeks ago. And it was like. Alan? It was, no.

The main event was, uh, Joshua Van and Pantosia. Was that L.A.? No, that was L.A. Am I wrong? Yeah, I'm wrong. What was the, no, the main event was, um,

uh, it was the women's flyweight title. Natalie Silva. Yeah. Natalia Silva and, uh, Wong Tong. Yes.

That was the main event. But all the fights up to that were fucking chaos. It was all first round chaos. I think the most knockouts in the card, wasn't it? Yes. So Davidson Paguerreto got knocked out by Peyton

Talbot, Rebovich knocked out King Green, Solditch and Chaos Williams was a crazy fight, went to United States and that was when Roman Copilov knocked out at Teba Gautier. So it was all these crazy chaotic fights, and the main event was fucking fantastic. It was a great main event, even though a lot of people were talking shit about it. It was a great fight. Yeah. A lot of fun. But if you had a fight like that on that card, so every, I think it was like 10 first round stoppages,

if you had a fight where it was just a boring, hold them down and give them nuggies, the crowd's going to go nuts. They're going to fuck you. This is gay. The fans of this sport are funny, aren't they? They are funny. They are like the best and worst of them.

They jump ship so quickly. It's like you have one hard fight and you've been fighting for any amount of time and you're washed. It's 11 knockouts. I hate it. The UFC record for the most knockouts in a single UFC event. surpassing Imov v. Boholio. That was Johnny Walker's heavyweight debut, wasn't it? Yes, yeah, yeah.

You know it was funny? Because I tuned in, and I was watching it, and I was like, man, I don't like this light heavyweight stuff. Because I just remember Johnny Walker from being a light heavyweight. And when I first saw him, I was like, man, maybe I should go back to the middleweight because I still thought he was there. And then I saw the heavyweight thing. I was like, ah. Well, I think he was the point. point of diminishing returns where he lost so much weight to make gliderative weight.

He couldn't take a shot. Yeah, no, at all. No. Yeah. When Jamal Hill knocked him out and he hit him with a straight right to the forehead and he just like, yeah. Yeah, I just don't think he could take a shot with that. He was so dehydrated.

His brain was dehydrated. And he did it for so long, though. Like, it took so long for him because he got hit in that fight too by heavy weights. Yeah. But also his power carried over. 100%. Well, he was always powerful. Yeah.

Like, real, and when you're 205, the difference you need a guy who could knock you out at 205 and a guy who can knock you out above that is not much. No, not much at all. Those big guys like that? Yeah. Yeah. Once you're above 205, everyone's got that touch of death almost. Like, that's how I treat training right now. It's just like just so.

So do you approach like fighting differently now? Like, are you thinking differently as you're fighting because you can't make any mistakes? Definitely, definitely, definitely. Can I quickly run to the bathroom before answering that? We'll be right back, folks. We've got to be. And we're back. So we're talking about you training differently and fighting differently with bigger guys.

You have a very distinctly different mindset. Yeah, definitely. It's, well, it all started like when I was at my last fight at middleweight with Derrida. I did not enjoy that camp. I did not enjoy that fight. Like something was missing. It's like I did the flame, the flare, the fire kind of fizzled out a little bit. And at that point I was like, man, what am I doing?

Something has to change. I'm not enjoying it as I should be. And obviously the 12 week camp or whatever you do before the fight leads itself a lot to that. Like it lends itself. Yeah, it makes the whole thing a drag, you know. But then the changes, I was like, well, let's go to light heavyway. People have been saying for years, like, you should go to light heavyway. Because I've always been a heavier set guy.

And I was like, okay, I'm going to do this. But more than that needed a change, I wanted to enjoy fighting. I wanted to bring the love back for it. So I just started being a bit freer. You know how we were talking about a happy rob is. Yeah. But I'm being a bit freer. I stopped, like, whilst fighting is, like, I'm hyper-focused on fighting.

And that is like something, that is the objective, that is the goal. I took a little bit off, stepped away a little bit from it so that I could go to my kids' soccer games, you know, instead of running sandhills. Things like that. I started enjoying kind of the moments between fighting, which is, there's a lot, right? So just enjoying that made such a big mental difference. And then I took that into the workroom. And in the workroom, a big thing was just. like, let's not get hit.

Let's try not to get hit at all. These guys are big guys. Every one of them has the touch of death. Let's not play around with that. Let's not roll the dice. Try to be as evasive and as technical as I can. Because that's where I see me having, then, like everyone else in the division. I think my skill set is higher holistically across the board.

And, yeah, that took me into that fight. And I felt really comfortable. Obviously, I was fighting a lot of nervous demons and nerves, like coming off two losses, making the move up. Everyone's seen that story. But, but yeah, no, it was for the better. For the better mentally, like the way you felt. Definitely, definitely. I felt way better.

The camp was much more enjoyable. The tricky part is now, the after camp, the after the fight period block. Because I'm a bigger guy and I can eat more, I'm going to, like, eating is. a slippery slope. Yeah. Tell me about it. I'm a glutton. I know what you're talking about.

I think everyone can relate. Yeah. It's just, it's, so how I'm trying to work on that still because, whereas like, when middle weight I could, you know, I'd get bigger, but you can't go too crazy because you know you've got to get back down 85 at one point. Yeah. Whereas a lot of heavy weight, I can eat everything. What are you walking around at before you start your cut?

I'm 106 kilos now. So is that 232? Not too bad. Yeah. But still 25 pounds. Yeah, I can train now. But not great. I don't want to start a camp at this weight.

Put it that way. Right. I think it's too heavy to start a camp. And what do you get down to when you start your camp? Probably 103. So that's 220. No. 225.

10 pounds less? it's 2.205 per pound or per kilo per transfer to pounds so what is the total three would be like seven it's like 6.6 pounds so what's the total what it'll be like 225ish yeah from 232 each dropping down six yeah so much so just enough yeah do you get close well just just just lose a little bit of that big gut what do you get down to like the week of the fight I do my cut in the bath at 220. Oh, okay. So you're still cut in 15?

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Because it's, like I mentioned, I'm a good sweater. So I can do that in about an hour and a half. 15 pounds? Yeah.

Wow. Just hop in a bath, an hour and a half. The bath is the move? I've done, because I've been fighting for so long and when I started, like you couldn't just Google how to cut weight. You just get these wrestling sort of camps. Right. different. They'd be like, go for a 15-mile run, wrapped up in sweats. Which I did. That's how I started.

It's how everyone can't wait in the beginning. Right. You put it on your sweats, you go for a run. Right. But I did sauna. The problem with the sauna is if I stay too long in there, my esophagus dries out sometimes, and it like burns if it's hot enough. How hard are you getting in there? I'm not sure. Like, I want to sweat. Because like when you start sweating, maybe it was too hot for too long, I talked to Ethan Ewing about that. Yeah. And one of the things that he was saying is he doesn't do it at like a really high temperature. He does it at like 165, I think he was saying.

Well, I know the sciences supports that. You just needed to be hot enough to sweat. So, but that's kind of our approach. And not really weaken yourself. Yeah. That's his take. Yeah, exactly. And in really high temperatures, you're actually breaking your body down too much.

And you could sweat as much at a lower temperature. But you're not going to be like tortured. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's kind of why I do bath, because you just put it, you put it warm, you hop in, lay down. You're resting, you know, it's like training or like running or moving or hitting mitts while I'm dehydrating. Like when I have to fight the day after. Right. You're wearing yourself out.

I feel like I'm wearing myself out. I don't have the water to like sustain the muscles. You know, it's just, it's just, and it's like you can just chill out, put some music on. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I find it like comfortable almost. Well, people are fine in all sorts of different ways to figure. Do you water load? Hidden miss with that one.

Hidden miss because I don't know if it actually works. Really? Yeah, because I'll do it and it'll come off. But I don't know if the weight's coming off just because the diet change or if because it's actually because of the water. And also, like, depending on who you speak to, people water load differently. Some guys, like, restricted. Some guys go backwards. some guys go up to only a certain amount, some guys go as high as they can.

It's just, it's all kind of different. I think I do it now more as like superstition. That's funny. Just because you think you're supposed to. Yeah, and because like, it'd be worse if it does it, if it did work, and I get in the bath and I have to cut like 20 pounds. Right. Yeah.

Have you ever done it with like one of those elite weight cutting, coaches. Like there's a few of those guys that people bring in that are like real experts in monitoring the exact amount of sodium you take and the exact amount of water you drink at this day and the amount that you drink at that day and they get you perfectly to that threshold. No, no, I haven't. But I've got to ask you, like how much, especially in like, if we look at the grassroots of fighting, like we are just two men with sticks and rocks, right? We're just like cavemen, like how much sometimes does science dilute what it is we're doing? We're just unga-bongering.

We are. Sort of, but also super skillful. Yeah. There's like there's both things that are happening simultaneously. It's like skill and technique, but it's also fucking rah. Yes. That's in there too. And that'll get you so far.

Yeah. Like having that dog, like that guy that'll go further than you will. Right. And most fighters have it. But I wonder sometimes if the science, if sometimes we get too caught up in science, because you see that a lot with today's, like, younger guys coming in. Like their parents are getting him into it because they've been watching UFC the whole life. So the kids starting mixed martial arts with like an elite program.

And they're like doing the best thing. eating the best foods, and they get too technical when a lot of the guys that are champions and stuff like that, they were just punched on in garages. Right. Or Strickland? Yeah. Or Strickland. Like, that's not the most scientific approach, just to constantly spar.

And talk shit to people while you're sparring them. To be fair, like, he's able to constantly spy because he's beating people up. Right. But he's beating good people up. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure it would be different. It was like getting brain damage every time he stepped in there. Yes.

Yeah, well, he's got a very elusive style. It's a weird style. It's tricky, isn't it? Stand straight up, hard to take down. Teep kicks to the body. And a lot of it is predicated on that right leg being all fucked up. You know, he blew his leg apart in a motorcycle accident. Yeah, yeah.

He's missing a big piece of his quad. His story is actually like really cool. Like his comeback story. It's kind of crazy. Yeah, he's a very unusual guy and very underestimated. in terms of his intelligence because he says so many wild things. But he fights intelligently.

And it's a difficult style. Like you see him when he fought Fluffy Hernandez, like Hernandez was on a tear up into that fight. Yeah. And Strickland just beat the brakes off of them. Easily. Yeah. Beat the brakes off of them.

It wasn't close. It wasn't close. And the fans are brutal because like they just, as soon as that happened, everyone was like, fraud checked, fraud checked thing. That's the worst. Oh, they're the worst.

That fraud check thing. Fuck you. Yeah. There's so many casuals and not just casuals, but cruel people. Like they say cruel things for engagement. Yeah. And they think they're being intelligent when they're saying it. Like, fuck off, man.

You're a kind. And fighting is like, it is the most primal, vulnerable position two men can be in. You know what I mean? Like, these are two guys out there putting their souls on the line with the consequence of getting knocked out in front of their friends and family and the world. Yeah. It's like, no one takes. that risk, except these guys for your entertainment.

Right. And then these guys just backstab us. Yeah. It's brutal. And it's usually the loudest voices of the biggest pussies. Yeah. The biggest pussies. Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, it's like I heard a lot of that from Peyton Talbot after he lost to Hounny Barcellos. Yeah. They were saying fraud check, fraud check. No, no, no, no, no. He found an area of his game that he needs to improve. And then look what happened when he came back. Then he did.

And he figured it out. He figured it out, bitch, and he came back and fucked up Henry Sohudo. Killing people, man. He's killing people. He's so good. He's so good. I really hope that fight with him and Sugar Sean O'Malley takes place. I really hope that fight takes place because I think... That is such a good fight. That is a gigantic fight and such a good fight on paper. You know? Do you reckon Peyton wrestles? Because he can wrestle.

He can wrestle. I mean, he certainly did with Henry Sohudo. It's possible. I mean, that's an area of his game that he just jumped way up after the Haunni Barcellos fight. Oh, my God. He just, yeah, like, he took the wrestling to Sohudo. Yeah, it's crazy. When he took Sohudo down, I was like, this is madness. This kid is special. Oh, it's cheeky.

He's very special. He's very, very unique in his approach to this. And you can tell he's feeling himself right now. Mm-hmm. Like, he's flowing. He's in that flow state right now. Yeah, man. And he loves it.

He loves competing. He loves fighting. He really do. Really, really does. I mean, there's a lot of great fights for him, and I understand Sean's position. If I was Sean, I would not take that fight right now either because Piotr Ian and Rob Dwaevish Willier

are going to fight this weekend. And if Piotr-Yan wins again, the big fight is him and Sean O'Malley because the last fight that he lost was to Sean O'Malley. So that is an amazing. And it was close. It was very close. And also a three-rounder.

Yeah. Right? So imagine if that fight goes five. Who knows what happens, right? It gets crazy. I think And that's where the money is too The money's there

Also it's like That's the fight you want Like yeah Peyton Talbot would be a good fight For the fans But that's not the right fight to take right now It's great for Peyton Yeah

I mean But there's a lot of great fights for Peyton There's so many good names Yeah he's just Yeah he's right up there He's just dismantling people too There's so many good fights in that division There's so many good fights in that division

That division is just fucking Chalk full of talent You know 135 right now was a, like, I think, yeah, it's a melting pot, isn't it? The biggest divisions right now are probably like 50s and, 55's insane. 55 is just fucking insane. There's so much talent at 55. It's fun right now.

Yeah, it's fun. 70's fucking insane. Yeah. You know, it's like there's 45 is insane. And 55 is all laying on whether or not Justin decides to retire. Yeah. What does he do? Who does he fight?

Who do you think he fights? I think Armand's the fight. Yeah. The big fight is Armin, especially after what Armin did to Hoofee. That's the big fight. And also it's like that's the most compelling fight because Armin looks like indestructible. Yes. He looks like the guy. Yeah. And he's like that Hoofey really made a statement. Really cemented the argument. And arguably he's already supposed to fight for the title. Right. If it wasn't for that one thing where he hurt his back the day before he's fighting Islam, it would have already happened. Yep. And look, he fought Islam in his first fight. ever in the U.S.

I've got a debut one. Right. And that close. I mean, razor close decision loss to Islam. One of the best ever. Yeah. So he's really fucking good. And that's the fight.

However, if I was, if I was Justin, and I'm looking at the landscape, and I'm like, well, who do I fight? I mean, you could fight if Olivera wins in his next fight, and Olivera retains the BMF title, and then Justin fights him in a rematch for the BMF title and for the lightweight title together. I could see that fight too. But it seems like you're denying Armand what he's deserved. Yes.

Armad deserves a title fight. And he's been fighting. Yeah. And fighting Hoofie, especially after the performances, who he's been putting on lately? Especially the one of the White House against Chandler. That was an execution. Yeah.

That one was crazy. I saw that coming, but... Saw it coming. I think everyone saw it coming. I was, you know, saying Chandler, I really hope you figure something out here. Yeah. But, you know, Chandler's style is so difficult to handle that long, tall, elite striker at this stage of his life. I mean, Chandler's 40.

Yeah, exactly. At this stage of his life. That makes me wonder. It's like, look at Gaichi. Look at Chandler. Look at most of the guys in my division. I think I'm one of the younger ones. Right.

You know, like, why do you, the age of these athletes are just going up? Well, I think with proper. training and with all the different sport science modalities today, like particularly people that are using hyperbaric chambers, red light therapy, saunas, cold plunges, massage, all these different training methods that are doing to strengthen all their tissues and make sure they don't get injured and increasing their cardio scientifically and all the nutrition, everybody's got everything dialed in. You can extend your lifespan a lot further than you could a few years back. Well, I hold a great belief in longevity.

Like, that's why me and my wife actually just created an app that, like, really focuses on sports science, longevity. What's it called? Assend Fitness by Rob. Ascend Fitness by Rob. All right. There it is. Yeah, there it is. Handsome bastard.

So what is, what's going on in this? What's in the app? It's, honestly, it's programs just like built around making, like, what got made. me to be able to perform for so long. Because you know how rare it is to be able to fight at this level for the length of time. Right. Like that's always the hardest things, the longevity. The turnover rate in the UFC's like super fast.

So like performance, doing these little things, performance training, conditioning to make life better. We just want to make life better. But what we do differently and this is kind of an avenue that I started playing with the idea when I wasn't going on a title run before I had my life. success in my last fight. It's like I want to move into like health, fitness with my wife. I always want to do with my wife because she's the one that got me into everything. So I wanted to be able to give back, create an community, get guys on board, start working

up. Like we have monthly Q&As where people can talk to me. Like I want to get to know people. I want to be able to tell them, like give me questions. We have a bunch of coaches on board that can give like form feedback straight away, but also just to talk to. I think that's so important, especially with training, like you need that human elements of what's going on, how you're feeling, where's your head at? Because that, as we spoke earlier, it's like happy Rob's a dangerous rob, that mental, that mental ability. It's like when you're, you know, when you're feeling on top of the world and you can do anything? Like, we try and make sure you have that every day, just by check-ins, by talking and things like that.

I'm going to sneeze. I'm going to hope I don't blow my back out. Flex that Because the fucking thing hurts And I'm like All right I'm okay I thought

Oh Flex that cool So have you ever Worked with a sports psychologist I've Yeah Throughout my career I have

I spoke to I spoke to one But What do they do for you? It depends I think I think guys This is just my take

Okay Because Everyone has their own take On everything I think sometimes just need to talk. Like, just shit talk. You know, like, I think that's why

pub culture was so important for men, you know, going through the years because they, they lower the guard a little bit and they just start shit talking. Like, what we're doing now? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This is great. We can just start, we're just talking. And in that, I'm venting, I'm letting out stresses. I'm saying things that make me vulnerable. I'm saying things that, like, I just want another opinion on because, like, sometimes you just need

to say something. And then you need the other guy to be like, no, you're a pussy. You know what I mean? And sometimes that gets you going. You're like, you know what? Yes. Or he goes, no, it would be right. And, you know, you're just talking.

I think talking is so important. Right. It helps you come to grips with whatever the thing is bouncing around inside your head by yourself. Yeah, because as men and as fighters, some of our thoughts aren't, like, talk to your wife thoughts. You know what I mean? Like, do all the women out of there? Right. The ones to the bed.

Like, we get it. You get it. Like, our thoughts are sometimes stupid. But we just need a place to put them. Right. And put them with another man who's going to understand. Dude, I get it. Someone's going to say, I get it.

I think so. And obviously, that's why, like, support circles and friends and family are super important. Like, having those guys you can turn to and just talk to, man. Yeah, well, that's what when when guys run a foul in their gym and have to leave the gym, that's always like a giant problem. Because that, the people that you train with on a daily basis, you spar with, you grind with, those are like brothers. Yep. And people who have gone to competition with people that they've trained with constantly, like you have so much invested in them. Like you, it's sometimes I've seen this with training.

partners where their friends fighting makes them more nervous than when they're fighting. Oh, yeah. It's a love that they have for these guys. I can't go to any of my teammates' fights. Like, it kills me. Like, it just kills me. But you're 100% right. Like, guys you've bled and sweat within the gym for any amount of time.

Like, you build a connection there. Like, even if you don't like them, like, there's heaps of guys in my gym that, like, I don't bond with. Like, I want to go, I'm not going to go and be like, hey, let's go grab some food. But you still root for him. If he calls me up and says, I need help. I'm getting jump.

I'm there. I'm in the car already. Like, over that close. Right. Or if like, if he's like, yeah,

it's just, you build that sort of bond. Like, it's a brotherhood. Yes. You know, and. So when you see a guy like leave a gym,

it's like, I've never had, yeah, that's got to be huge. I've never had that happen. I don't know what happened with Izzy. You know, I don't know what's going on,

but I know he left city kickboxing. And that was a stunner for me. I was like, I can't believe. Because Eugene Barerman has been a staple part of his career. And he's an amazing coach. Like he's so good. And he's such a mastermind.

He's one of the few real legitimate masterminds in the sport. So when I saw that, I was like, oh, no. Like, that's a bad place to be. Like psychologically, you leave the family. Yeah, that's... And for all I know, I think he's still living in New Zealand too. And that was huge for me because I had just trained with him. I was just training with him there.

And then, you know, I found that out. And obviously, I'm still going to go to CKB and stuff because I have good relationship with them and I did some really good work with it. And for me, everywhere is so far for Australia. Right. Australia's on the ass end of nowhere. I realized that it comes flying here. It was like to get to Austin.

It was like 17 and a half hours of flight time. Oh, my God. Like, we're so far. Well, that's why people want to build bunkers over there. Exactly. That's like the selling point. All those fucking billionaire dudes who are like worried about the end of the world, they all get a bunker in either New Zealand or Australia. Well, that's why I like New Zealand because obviously like the Kiwis guys,

they're big boys. And you've got some good prospect of like Navajo, Sterlingwright, now. Carlos Ulberg, obviously. Tyson Pedro, like these big boys that I can move with. But for me, it's only like three hours. That's not bad. Yeah, like three hour flight. That's great.

Yeah. That's great. Like, yeah, can't ask for more. Yeah, you guys live in a crazy country. It's so big and there's so few people in it. So it's so, everything's so far away. Yeah. But a lot of like the non, I don't know, a lot of it's desert.

I know, but you have the population of Los Angeles in a country the size of the United States. Don't say it like that. Don't say like that. You guys always like. It's not a bad thing. You guys always come over and like, oh, that's cute. Now, listen, I love Australia. I love it there.

I love the people. They're very friendly. It's a fun culture. I really do love Australia. But, I mean, the just the actual geography of Australia is crazy, and it's filled with things that want to kill you. Yes. Well, you guys got to start killing those crocodiles. No, but you like...

Bring back killing crocodiles. Make that fun again. Make that fun. Why are you guys letting the crocodiles live? That's insane. They're protected and they're eating people. They're eating people. They're eating people.

Oh, mate. If you are stupid enough, if you're stupid enough to go for a swim in the river that you clearly can't see the bottom of. Listen, this is how I feel. If I live in a place and I'm a human, anything else that lives in the place that wants to kill me should be dead. Dead. Fuck you. This is my ground. I'm the person.

I'm the one with the brain, the opposable thumbs, and I have the guns. Fuck off. If you want to eat my kids, I kill all. All of you, there's none of you left. I put a few of you in a zoo and we could stare at you from behind the glass. Fuck you forever. It's funny. Alligators seem cute by comparison to crocs.

They do. Alligators kind of like dopey crocs. Have you ever seen what happens when they get the two of them together? They feed them. So there's this place in Florida where they have alligators and crocodiles all intermingling and nile crocodiles. And so when they feed them, the crocodiles run over the top of the alligator's heads to get the first. They're like, fuck you. Hear that food, bitch.

It's like, you're just a pretend crook anyway. It's like the difference between a fucking golden retriever and a pit bull. The thing that gets me, like brown snakes are annoying. I hate those, because I like kids. Well, because they kill you. Yeah, they're very poisonous, very venerous. Only a person in Australia would say they're annoying. Well, because, but they don't hang out with you.

It's not like they're trying to invade. They just, you just don't go into any hot bushes. But the spot- So you have to go into a hot bush. The funnel webs as well. They're very venomous, but just don't put your hands in any wet holes. Yeah.

Always good advice anyway. Good advice. Solid advice. Can keep you out of trouble, trust me, guys. They're going to the bank. You have so many different bugs and spiders. Like my friend Adam Green Tree, he lives over there. He just got bit two months ago by some fucking spider

when he was camping. And it's like lethal. He almost died. No. Yes. Really? Yeah, I forget what it's called some green something or another. He told me, and apparently it didn't even get him.

What happened was as he slapped it, it was crawling on him. And as he slapped it, its stinger went into him a little bit, but not enough to kill him. Because otherwise it would have been lethal. No, really? Yeah. You know, and I thought of this just now, maybe the reason why we let them all live is to keep people out. It's not a bad idea. That's a great idea.

Right. You keep your population low. It's like less problems. Because like a lot of Americans are like Australia's everything's trying to kill you. I've never gone to Australia. It's not that bad. It's not that bad. I have friends that go over there and hunt all the time. But it's a great country in terms of like the spirit of the people.

Yes. They're a fun people. Generally speaking, Australians are fun. It's a great place to do comedy. It's like they have a good time. Yeah. It's like it's a great drinking culture. It's a great laughing culture.

It's a lot of fun. The drinking culture is a slippery slope. It's like, because we probably like it a bit too much. Yeah, as it is everywhere where it's fun. Yeah. It's fucking Ireland or anywhere. The vibe at the club last night was just amazing. The energy was so good.

It was my first time, and that has sparked my ambition to go to ones in Sydney and stuff. Well, this is a great comic that lived in Austin for a while, and he moved to Australia, James McCann. He's one of my favorites. one of the best up-and-coming comics in the world right now. And fucking hilarious Australian dude. And his wife just had a new baby and she wanted to like help with the family. And so they went back to Australia. But he's planning on coming back to America again. But if he's performing in Australia, I'll send you to him. Because he's fucking great. He's so funny. There he is. McCain.

Performing in November. Oh, there he is. So Perth, Adelaide, Sydney, and Brisbane. in in November. Go see that dude. I've got the itch now. Fucking brilliant. Yeah, I've got the itch. That was a great time. It's fun, right?

It was great. It was great. It was just like relaxed. Everyone's laughing. Like, laughter is special. Yeah. It's special. It gives you a special sort of energy.

I'm very big on energy of people and stuff like that. So when you put them all in one place and it's just... With one goal to have a good time. Exactly. Yeah. And that's one of the few. places in the world, really, where everyone comes with, like, no baggage. Right.

Like, no one comes with any sort of expectation of everyone has the same goal, same objective. Yeah, good intentions. Go there to have a good time. And that's sort of burned into the spirit of the building by this point. You know, we've been open for a few years. It's like just, I really believe that. Like, the Comedy Store in L.A. is a great example of that. When you go there, it's like burned into the walls of the building, the laughter, all the years of fun.

and excitement. Yeah. The energy seeped into the concrete. Yeah, and you can feel it. You can feel it's like I've got a culture. It's like a heaviness to it when you walk through it. It was cool. It was cool.

Can't thank you enough. That's awesome, brother. I'm glad you had a good time. And I'm glad we did this. You know, I've been a fan of yours for a long time. And I've always loved hearing you talk in interviews. I'm like, that'd be a fun guy to have on the podcast. And you are.

You're great, man. This has been so much fun. Oh, my pleasure. You should probably do your own podcast. You'd be great at it. Yeah. I do have one on YouTube. Oh, you do?

Yeah, MM Arcade. We just talk about, like, fights and, like, video games. Oh, nice. Like Mighty Mouse. Yeah, yeah, well, yes, yes, to a degree. Nice. Have you done his podcast? I have plenty of times.

He's a great guy to talk to. I fucking love that, dude. Another energy. Another piece of energy. Like, he just, his vibes when you're talking to him. Because, you know what it is? And it's not rocket science. You just have to be invested in the person you're talking to.

Yes. That's it. Yeah, for real. You have to really be there. Yeah, that's it. And he's great of that. You're obviously the maestro of it. Like talking with you is just so easy.

Al was just fly by. It's so much fun. Thanks. I'm glad you had fun, man. It flies by for me too. You know, it's just the key is only talk to people you actually want to talk to. That way you never have to fake it. Yes, yes, yes, yes. But yeah, Mighty Mouse is awesome at that.

And to me, he's like one of the greatest examples ever of mixed martial arts excellence. Like watching him perform when he was at his best. He was just a master. Yes. Just a master. Yeah. One of the all times. Uncanny, that flying arm bar.

Oh, my God. Like, to chain that? Suplex into an arm bar in a fight. Yeah, it's just, yeah, he does things that, that, it's like you're playing the game. Yeah, dude. You know what I mean? And his speed, there's something about the speed of flywights, too. One time I grabbed him at a UFC just to say hi, just fucking around.

I grabbed him from behind, and he turned around and he went, he hit me with two knees to the body. Like, didn't hurt me, just touched me. But they were so fast, my brain. didn't process it. My brain was like, what? What did you just, how did you do? What the fuck just happened? Because it's one thing to watch it play out. But it's another thing, when those knees just come at your body like that and you realize like, that's the speed that they're competing at. Yeah. Like when you watch Joshua Van versus Pantosia, the chaos.

What a fight. What a fight. How good is Joshua Van? Oh, yeah. And I'm so happy he, like, silenced everyone about that Pantosia fight. Well, he kind of did with him. the Tyra fight because the Tyra fight was so good. I know. But dude, Joshua is another level, man. Yeah, he is. And he's just evolving. Yeah.

Every fight. That's just like Talbot. It's like, I think that's this new generation. Yep. Their ability to adapt and grow so fast between fights. Yep. Yeah, it's just, it's. And as a champion, I think he's even more confident than ever.

You know, it's just, oh my God. It's such an exciting time for the sport. That's why these younger generation is why I'm developing an app. That's why I brought out a fitness app. Well, listen, man, thank you for being here. Good luck with the app. Good luck with everything in your future. It's been a pleasure.

Thank you so much for having me. All right. If anybody wants to get a hold of you on Instagram, what is your handle? What is it? Rob Whitaker, MMA. Okay. And Twitter, do you use that? Yes, yes, yes.

It's all the same handle. Website. The website is Ascent Fitness by Rob. Fitness by rob. dot com. 50% off first month. All right. Thanks, brother.

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