The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #24 with Kevin Lee

Episode Date: April 23, 2018

Joe sits down with UFC Lightweight fighter Kevin Lee to discuss his recent fight.

boom and we're live kevin lee yes sir this is about as fresh off of a fight as you can get man yeah just about touching down yeah barely slept yeah it must have been a crazy first of all like after a fight it's probably you're probably so wired and like can't believe it's over right what is it like it takes you a minute for it to hit you really uh i didn't sleep at all after the fight i just i laid there for a little bit mind kind of racing didn't really settle down uh i just ended up just getting up getting some breakfast and then uh right on the plane over here didn't sleep all on the plane came over here 3 a.m i've been up all morning but you what are you like 25 yeah yeah i keep going yeah i keep going rock star lifestyle baby i gotta live it 25 you can do that for like two days in a

row before it really starts to settle in yeah no i'll be good for a minute i mean besides getting kicked in the head i'm all good other than that dude that was first of all it was a very very very impressive performance i mean edson barboza is no fucking joke and notoriously difficult to take down even khabib struggled getting him down the early parts of the first round but you got him down quick yeah i think a lot of people underestimate that uh especially how technical my wrestling can get um i i just feel like edson was really strong uh he was probably the strongest guy that i've ever faced physically. His body, it moved a little bit different.

But technically, I just had the aspect there. And when you add those two things up, I'm equally as strong. I'm just going to blow him off the water. Well, he's just a bundle of fast twitch muscle fiber, man. And that dude, I mean, people, they'll see the Khabib fight and they'll see this fight with you. They might not understand how good that guy really is. He's very, very good. He's a beast. And he's going to come back and he's going to knock some people out.

Oh, for sure. He's only going to get better from here, I think. Yeah. It's just he, it's the styles make the fights too. And me, I feel like I can fight any style. You know, that was my number one goal when I got into this sport sport just to be the most well-rounded complete uh fighter that there is and and i feel like i can take advantage uh of like some of his things that he's not getting good at but he's gonna get better at him he's gonna he's gonna be back he's a beast well that focus in that mindset of being well-rounded was

very obvious in that fight i was very impressed by the fact you you fight just as good southpaw as you do orthodox you switch up easily i've been uh i've only as good southpaw as you do orthodox. You switch up easily. I've only been going southpaw for maybe the past year, year and a half or so, and just kind of getting a feeler for it down. But I feel like that could be one of the— when you listen to a lot of the great fighters in the past, they talk about a right-handed southpaw. There's so many advantages that can be there.

And it's just always great to be able to switch up and change time, especially when you've got a guy that's trying to time you like Edson. Yeah, they say that, I'm sorry, but they say that if you work on the opposite side, it actually makes the other side better. Yeah, yeah. It makes it a little bit easier when you switch back. And I've noticed that. I mean, there's still some kinks and twists that I want to kind of get out of there. You see, you see, I study a lot of people. I study a lot of switch fighters, especially in MMA. Recently, I want to say about the last two years,

guys have been doing it more often. But some guys do it better than others. I try and get the perfect mix, you know. Well, some guys do it, but there's a twist, right? Like Wonderboy does it, but when Wonderboy does it, you know that the front leg is coming. And then he can fight any style. I mean, he can fight left or right.

But when he switches, when he goes right, you know that front leg side kick's coming, that front leg roundhouse kick is coming. And then when he stands orthodox, he's much more likely to throw a punch or maybe even spin. He mixes it up, but he's limited maybe in the way he attacks the blending of it i think uh wonder boy is one of those guys that his switches are like really uh you can see him coming you know the he makes them really pronounced you know they're big switches and you know the the attacks that are coming there's certain guys like tj dillashaw who's great at mixing it up completely right uh where i feel like he doesn't sit down on his punches too much

or he gets in spots where he can get clipped in between those with your feet off the ground. So I try and find the happy medium between those two. Switching up too much and being able to make those hard switches too. Well TJ's really been doing that style for just like three or four years now since he's been with Bang. Maybe

it was about, I want to say three years, four years. Yeah, probably. It takes some time to get used to it get used to the timing and everything and and that's one of the things with me like i try and be the most consistent uh guy that there is out there so the more consistently i'm getting in there the more i'm seeing things coming i'm i'm i'm reading the angles and you know getting a lot of different looks a lot of different bodies being thrown at me uh so all that adds up to experience, and, you know, it's only going to get better from there. Yeah, it's also one of those things.

When you're 25 years old, you still are, like, realistically five years away from your athletic prime. Yeah, I keep that in the back of my mind sometimes because, you know, you obviously don't want to overwork the body too much. You don't want to burn out. But I think it's just staying consistent and staying healthy as long as i'm healthy through it you know i got through that fight no no serious damages at all uh and that's the most important thing is just staying healthy when i'm young uh and then uh you

know tailing back when i'm starting to get more damages or more injuries but i i do a great job of keeping my body healthy i think more than anything what do you like when you're in i know robert fallos was your coach for quite a long time and uh we both miss him i'm sure you you were very close with him he was such a great guy yeah yeah yeah was he the guy that like did he sort of uh map out your training program when you were in camp or you know i had uh we we kind of structured it or at least i try to structure it like a full team uh aspect you know rob was kind of like i to structure it like a full team aspect. Rob was kind of like, I think of it like a race car. I'm the race car itself, but Rob was like the head driver.

Rob was telling me where to go, what to do. Dewey was kind of like my horsepower. Dewey Cooper? Yeah, Dewey Cooper. I mean, phenomenal striking coach, if you ever. Fantastic fighter. With him, he was a smaller smaller heavyweight but he would fight giant guys like peter arts and to do that you you gotta you know you look at him he's only about 220

you know six foot one maybe he's fighting six foot seven 300 pound guys so he has to be extra technical in there uh not rely on his speed and power that's why i think he he makes such a great coach and and he pushes me uh through it but i had another guy I've been working with, Corey Goodwin, for the last four or five years since I've been on Vegas. He's kind of like the mechanic. He keeps my body fresh and going. Is he your strength and conditioning guy? Yeah.

We call it that, but what we do is a lot different than strength and conditioning. It's not a lot of – I don't lift any weights. For real? Yeah. I haven't touched a weight since college you know wow the only time i did was uh when i went over and i started working with the ufc pi guys a little bit they wanted me to touch weights but uh it's just not a good fit for me are you doing uh what are you doing plyometrics are you doing he'd have to explain it to you more. You know, that's his. He worked through Exos for a long time, so he took a lot of their physiology. What is that?

Exos. What's Exos? I think they just signed a deal with the UFC, too. A lot of guys have been going over, and they're a big strength and conditioning program. They've got a big facility down in Arizona, but they used to be based out of Vegas. So he worked for them where he gets a lot of his training philosophies and stuff from. But it's not any weight lifting.

Calisthenics, chaps, pushups? A lot of movement. We work a lot of the joints especially, where he overextends my joints. He pushes them past the limit and then we work out from there. So it's not very heavy lifting it's maybe 15 pounds what do you mean by pushing them past the limit like

like uh hyperextend it yeah i mean no it's like almost like you get an armbar so uh one of the things we do is he takes a band and he and he stretches it out so it really pulls my shoulder and i was telling you i i very rarely have shoulder problems and i think a large reason he he pulls it all the way out kind of the socket, and then we work it out from there, you know, to build strength from those little muscles. Which I feel like that's the part where I get my true strength from, you know. I do that, a lot of yoga, a lot of, you know, a lot of things that just all the strength comes from within me, not lifting weights or anything. How often are you doing yoga when you're in camp? Two, three times a week.

I've only been doing it for like four or five months since the Tony fight. It's been helping me a lot. When I started doing it, guys were like, oh, what are you lifting or something? I'm like, no, that shit's hard. I'm like fucking just doing yoga. Isn't it crazy how hard it is? It sounds like you're just fucking off Like yeah I'm doing yoga

Oh you lazy bitch What are you doing? Stretching? Touching your toes and shit? Maybe for like the first two months Like I'd be like ashamed to tell people They're like where you going? I'm like you know

I'm going to this one class You know we're going to be lifting a lot of weights We're going to be grunting and shit Eating meat and shit Nah I'm in there with like The fucking Housewives The housewives And they're killing me It's crazy right? They're killing me They're killing me mates and we're gonna be grunting and shit like shit no i'm in there with like the fucking house wives and they're killing me it's crazy right they're killing me they're killing me i've gotten

good now though but uh do you do hot yoga yeah yeah yeah i do a couple different stay even the vinyasa a little bit uh i try and dibble dabble but i've only been doing it for a couple months now now when you do how do you structure your camp in terms of how much strength and conditioning you're doing, how much skill work? So it kind of depends on the opponent, too. But generally, I'm doing three times a week of some type of grappling, whether that's wrestling or nogi. Then I only spar once a week at the end of the weeks.

We pick our sparring partners that we pick, that we choose. You know, we fly guys in or guys that are in town because I'm in Vegas. Guys are always in and out. But then, you know, I only do strength and conditioning maybe two times a week, not too much. Now, when you say you spar once a week and you bring guys in um are you sparring hard or do you spar more technical when i'm in camp uh maybe four or five good but i go pretty hard and and it ruins me sometimes because i run out of sparring partners and guys don't want to show up and all this but uh i ended up having to start paying guys just come on man give me some work here right yeah

we're trying to make some money do you think that that's the way to go like um for longevity there's a there's the big debate right whether or not you should spar skill wise and then save it up for the fight or whether you should just fucking go to war i think i think you need that that reaction time you know with a guy that's seriously throwing at you and i mean we're not trying to hurt each other, for sure. Like 80%, maybe 70%, something like that? We go pretty hard up until you obviously can see that there's an injury or somebody's hurt or, you know, you back down. And even on, like, some of my takedowns, I back down, obviously. I'm not trying to knock the guy out, but I am trying to give him some good work.

And I hope he does the same in return. But we pick smart guys that'll do it. That's what it's about at that level when you got two very high level guys going against each other we can go hard and not injure right if i'm going with like a new guy or you know it's a newer team like i don't even try someone's trying to make a name yeah i don't fuck around yeah yeah there's a lot of that man too much yeah i remember i ran into vitor once and his hand was in a cast and he hadn't had a fight in a while. I said, what happened? He said, some new guy came into the gym, and he's sparring with this new guy,

and this new guy's trying to kill him, and he broke his hand on this dude's forehead. And I was thinking, you're Vitor Belfort. I mean, and this is Vitor, like, I want to say, like, eight, nine years ago. I was like, man, like, that's crazy. But that's the kind of shit that happens, right? And guys are very tough in the gym. I mean, especially some of the new dudes. They're tougher than you think they would be.

They're coming up. They're 16 and they're tough. Yeah. They're coming out with new – I think each generation has a new style, too, that you don't get used to. And if it – you know, if them boys are catchy, they'd be hungrier than you. Well, you're seeing all these new guys that are coming up that can do everything. You know, they have, like, taekwondo skills. They got Muay Thai.

They can wrestle. They do flying arm bars and shit. There's just kids are, because MMA is such a part of, like, the zeitgeist now, and everybody understands it, and kids know if you want to be a really tough fighter, it's not about boxing. It's about MMA. And so you're getting these wild-ass kids at a really young age practicing this shit on each other learning it trying going to gyms when they're nine ten years old by the time they're in high school they're killers yeah

i mean and we have so many of them that come through uh vegas especially and i think that's that's my favorite part about living there is is the the training partners and and like you said the new kids. Even though I'm only 25, I'm trying to see what they're doing that's coming up next. That's smart. Because they're going to come with something that you ain't seen before. And there's some out there. Like even my younger brother.

My younger brother is just getting started in his MMA career. He's only got five pro fights now, eight in total. So not that many fights but the some of the things that you do i'm like you know let me try let me learn from you a little bit right well the barboza fight um you got clipped was a third round the beginning of the third round you got clipped with that wheel kick that recovery was amazing though man that's an amazing recovery i mean barboza puts people out with that shit and your legs completely gave out I mean, Barboza puts people out with that shit, and your legs completely gave out.

But, man, that's a weird moment, right? Where, like, anything, if he wasn't near you, right, where you could grab a hold of him and take him down. If he just stepped back a little bit, you know, interesting, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was still there. You know, I never went away. And I think a lot of, even the way I moved moved when somebody showed me that video after i cracked up i was i was dying laughing because when i'm in there i don't i don't know what happened you know i see the video and i see my legs just go did you see the remix

music it's a couple of them bro they're pretty good though i've been laughing a lot all morning because you won it's funny it's funny it funny. Because you won, it's funny. But I think a lot of what I was – my focus going into this one was really on my footwork, my balance, doing yoga. I've been dancing, too, a little bit. What kind of dancing? Some ballet and salsa. I mean, I – I've heard a lot of guys – look,achenko's a you know his dad had him

enrolled in dance for four fucking years yeah traditional russian dancing and he credits that for his footwork yeah i mean i've i've only been doing it for a short amount of time but still i can tell right off the bat and i think a lot of what you saw there was that you know uh when i looked at before the only other fight i've ever got dropped in or hurt seriously was the Leonardo Santos fight. And really, it was me dropping back on my ankle. And I broke my ankle in that fight. So when I tried to stand back up, it looked like I wobbled. And that's why John McCarthy stepped in.

So a lot of what I focused on was the balance. So when that equilibrium gave off and you saw four guys in front of me, I'm just like, let me just keep my eyes on this motherfucker right here. It's crazy because you think of how hard Barbosa is usually to take down. It was very fortunate that he was right there for you to grab him because he was trying to move in for the kill. Yeah, yeah. If you were his coach, you would have been screaming, get the fuck away from him, right?

Honestly, his coach was not doing him no favors during that fight. I felt bad for the guy. What do you mean mean what way they could they could have did him better uh through the set he i probably could have put him away in the second round um but he was panicking and i could see it in him you know and his coaches like caused him to panic a little bit more you know they just kept screaming at him the time like you only got two minutes to survive. And I was like, let me not. Barbeau's a nice guy. He really is.

And I didn't want to hurt him too bad. Just two very similar fights for him in a row. Two maulings in a row. When you're that guy who wants to stand up, and you've got guys that are just just constant pressure constant pressure people don't realize how much endurance that takes to move away too you're moving backwards it's a lot more difficult to do yeah true i mean i feel like everything kind of pushed you know it's about who controls the the pace of the fight and i feel like i did a good job of that and

uh you know i i thought even after i got wobbled with the with the kick in the third i still came back and you won the round yeah i tried to make it a point to finish standing. Other than that moment, you won the round. And you hurt him bad in the second round, too, with a kick to the body. You could see him cover up and tense, but you could see it. It was a strong right kick to the body. One of the reporters, he asked me, like, why was I standing at range with him? And it's just like, I feel like I can do it all, you know?

And that's my true sense. It's like, I can stand at range with him uh and it's just like i feel like i can do it all you know and that's my true sense it's like i can stand at range with it with i mean he's definitely the the most explosive dynamic uh all those things that you want to say the best kicker in the lightweight division and i and i can stand at range with him and kick just as well with him and i can wrestle with the best wrestlers i can i can kick with the kick best kickboxers i can punch with the best boxers so uh why not test myself i'm not one of these guys who shy away from shit he's an interesting I can wrestle with the best wrestlers. I can kick with the best kickboxers. I can punch with the best boxers. So why not test myself? I'm not one of these guys who shy away from shit. He's an interesting case because he's really primarily a kicker.

He will throw punches, but that's not his strong suit. I mean, he's not a guy that just wants to, you know, just dig in and throw bombs. Yeah, but he got some bombs. He's got some bombs, I'm sure. He hit me with that left. You know, he hit me with a monstrous left hook in the fifth round. I was like, man, he's still there. The kid, he never gave up. He was taking a beating.

He hit me with a monstrous left hook. So I gave him one back and busted his orbital up pretty good. But he was still there to the very end. He can box, too. He's got some power in his hands. Yeah, and the cut was a pretty nasty cut. Pretty nasty cut over his right eye when he stopped the fight. Were you shocked that they stopped it?

No, I thought it was the right call. I think more coaches in MMA should definitely get in there a little bit sooner. I think that's what some of my problem with his corner was, too. You see some of these fights, and you can kind of tell when a guy just doesn't. You know, it doesn't make sense to make him take more beats. Somebody like Barbosa is explosive to the very, very end. You have to give that to him. That's the thing you never know, right?

I mean, if he connected with that left hook perfect and you went out, and then he's a hero. Yeah, then, you know, I guess then you look like the asshole. But, you know, I don't know. It's a thin line to cross. Yeah, it's a tough decision. You don't want to be there when your guy's getting beaten up like that, and you have to make that call. Yeah, and maybe I'm just speaking for him because I'm not a coach yet.

Maybe my stance will change when I am a coach, or if I am a coach, but we'll see. Yeah, it's different. The same thing with referees. And Keith Peterson did a great job in that fight. He's a guy that doesn't get enough credit. There's a few, like Herb Dean, I think, because John McCarthy's retired. I think he's the gold standard. Josh Rosenthal.

There's a bunch of really good guys. But that's a tough call to decide when to stop. I think even Yamasaki. You know, Yamasaki takes a lot of bullshit, especially from lot of bullshit especially from the from from dana don't like him at all he hate that motherfucker but uh he he does a great job in there even that that fight where he let the girl take a lot of punches a lot of damage she was still moving she was still showing that she was in the fight i think you got to put that on her coaches and her and her trainers they know that she's if she's really in there. Some guys are just too tough for the young good, like Barboza. Well, she was fighting Valentina Shevchenko.

She just shouldn't have been in there. She just shouldn't have been in there. It was her first UFC fight, and she's fighting a woman who's just a straight-up assassin. Yeah, and it can't be on the ref. You can't put it on the ref to know that or to make that call. The ref has to be completely you know not not objective at all it's I think it's got to put it on the coaches they should know yeah what weight do you walk around at about one if I'm completely just kind of like bullshitting doing whatever I've gotten to as high as like

195 when you're in training like when you get like save your four weeks out where you at 85 usually 185 85 you're cutting a, like when you get, like say you're four weeks out, where are you at? 85 usually. 185? Yeah, 85. So you're cutting a lot of weight, man. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's. Do you see yourself ever moving to 70 or?

No, not 70 necessarily. Just because those guys there, at that point you're talking about a frame issue. Right. You know, you got guys that are like six foot one and, you know, they're just, it's a different body style body style you know i train with a lot of them high level welterweights too you know it's a different body style i'm more suited for 155 it's just with you know some of the things that i got to play around with i think will keep happening in the upcoming months i didn't project that i would fight again until july or so so a lot of the things that i was doing diet wise was kind of getting to that. And they approached me with this Barboza fight, maybe like eight weeks earlier than that. So I just had to do what I had to do. So is it a matter of just,

you didn't taper off quick enough or you just came in too heavy before you started? You know, it was just, it was just the timing wise, you know, I missed it by one pound. Yeah. Yeah. It's something on that timing that I've really got to figure out. And that was the biggest problem with the Tony Ferguson fight. You know, I can break it down for you. So usually, you know, I'm normally about 185 through six weeks of diet. I can usually diet down to about 76, 77. Like, that's where I'm optimal. And then from there, I start the water cut.

So the week of the fight, the Tuesday, I'm 76. And then from there, I start the water cut. So the week of the fight, the Tuesday, I'm 76. I save that all the way until I overload my body with water and flush out some of the sodium and the carbs and all that. I save the rest of that up until the day before, and I try and cut as much as I can. Because I want to spend as little time dehydrated, that dehydrated as possible. And I think that's some of the problem with having these early morning weigh-ins is the timing issue of it. Because you wake up and then you have to start from the time you wake up

rather than if it's at 4 o'clock in the afternoon like it used to be, you'd be able to do it all throughout the day. Yeah, yeah. I can cut more, you know, reasonably through the morning. So you feel like if you had more time, you would have been able to make it oh yeah absolutely 100 yeah my body was a time thing yeah i got confused when they were doing this early morning weigh-ins i thought you had like like from 8 a.m to 4 o'clock right right that's what i thought yeah i thought if you weigh in early go ahead weigh in early but they gave you the time yeah i mean i i'm not

really i don't really know the solution either. You know, I don't think nobody really knows the solution to that problem, the time frame, because you are seeing a lot of guys miss weight because of that. And I think that's one of the biggest problems. Not only that, but guys are going to sleep completely dehydrated and sleeping through the night 20 pounds dehydrated. That's a lot of water coming from your blood. Your blood gets thicker.

Your heart rate slows down when you when you sleep i mean you know i try my best not to spend as much time dehydrated as possible yeah it's just a timing issue on that last one especially when you see guys like those on jokes that just can't do it anymore and he goes up to 70 he looks better than ever what do you think about that it's always an option for me it would be an option now like i would i would entertain the right fight at it, for sure. It's just right now at the state of it, they're doing this bullshit interim title, and Tyron's sitting right there. It's not a lot of movement at the top right now.

So 155, just more fights interest me. It's bigger challenges. I think the guys are honestly better at 155, 170, maybe in the future, but it's got to be the right type of fight or something. Yeah, well, there's so many good fighters now. I mean, you go all across the board. I mean, pretty much every weight class is strong now, but yeah, I agree.

I think 55 is probably the strongest weight class right now. Yeah, and it's so strong that you can make a 165 pound. I really don't see what the holdup is on it. Do a 65, do a 75, because we have so many guys that can bounce between those, and you'll have a whole new I really don't see what the holdup is on it. Do a 65, do a 75. I agree. Because we have so many guys that can bounce between those. And you'll have a whole new top 15, a whole new champion,

and they'll be just as strong as any of the two weight classes next to it. I couldn't agree more. I think it's very important that we spread it out better. I think 10 pounds is reasonable. You know, I mean, the way boxing has it, they have, you know, they have a 54 and then they have a 60. That seems a little ridiculous. 47 and then they have a 54. I think you'd be better off with 10.

Just a straight up 10 pounds, that's reasonable. But when you go from like 85 to 205, that shit's crazy. Some big boys. That's a big gap. Some of them,

even 55 to 70 because most guys, you know, like a normal size guy is about my size, 185, 190 pounds. That puts you in that middle. You know, you got guys like me with a lot of muscle where I'm not going to lose a lot of fat in between, you know. Right. Even for this one, I was 177, but I was 4.5% body fat.

You know, I couldn't really lean. You can't get too much more lean than that. You were 4.5% body fight when you weighed in? Yeah, before. Well, I was 4.5% maybe two weeks before the fight, actually. But are you getting calipers? Are you doing how they test it now? Are they dunking you in the water?

No, over at the PI. Really? Oh, that body thing? Yeah. So the scales aren't that good. Here's the thing about those scales. Those scales, when you hold on to those things, some of them are okay. But the best way, they say, is submerging you.

There's a submerged one, and there's another one that uses some sort of electricity thing, like you lie in a bed. I think the Performance Institute has that, too. They're explaining that shit to me. Yeah, yeah, the full scanner. Yeah, I've done that a few times. But it's much quicker, much easier just to get on the scale. It just sounds real low.

4.5% sounds usually low. It does, but as long as it's still the same measurement, you know what I'm saying, as my last fight. For the Tony fight, I was 5.5% on those measurements. So as long as it's with the same calipers or whatever the fuck they're using, you know that you're basically on point. Yeah, exactly. I can compare it at least. But, again i can't get much that much leaner you know it's mostly just going to come out water if if they add a 65 then you know i i've got 10 more pounds of water that i don't have to cut out it was fucking ridiculous how frustrating was it you for you going into that tony ferguson fight with that staph infection because that was a

that was a serious fight i didn't notice it at the weigh-ins but then the moment you walked into the cage it was funny man because they were telling DC don't talk about it because I was going that's staph that that is fucking staph and then they said to DC don't talk about it he goes yup that looks like staph to me he just ignored him he's like fuck you I'm telling him that's staph man I don't know why they didn't want anybody bringing it up because it's an important point. It's an unfortunate thing that happens during training sometimes. Yeah, I kind of noticed it on that Sunday, you know, and then Tuesday we do the check-ins and everything. And I had the girl, I'm like, can you, you know, put some makeup on it because I didn't want, you know, nobody to find out.

And even Tony, you know, if he would have saw it he would have knew he knew i compromised all that um but yeah it frustrated things it made things a lot more complicated it put me it made the weight cut terrible uh just to go back to it i mean i'm cutting from 76 to to 50 i had to be 55 for that fight and I tried my best to skim it down in about 12 hours so I woke up at 5 a.m with at about 162 and weigh-ins are between 9 and 11 and from 5 a.m till 8 a.m I had only cut one pound compared to in other cuts that have gone really well I would normally cut about four or five pounds at that time. But because I just was feeling good and I wasn't worried about it, and I was using the same temperature of water, I was using the same everything, but the staff made my body hold on to the water.

So when I went down and checked and saw that I was still like five pounds up with like two hours to go, they started like throwing boiling hot water on me to get, you know, to get my body. Yeah, to get me sweating to get it off. It was brutal. Yeah, that's for someone who doesn't, never experienced staff. Explain what it does to your body. How it makes you feel. The next day, I just, I felt so tired.

I never felt as tired in my life And it felt I felt so tired to the point where I tried to counteract it by getting myself as pumped as I can and The you know, you normally get there two hours before the fight when I walked into the arena that night two hours before I was In a sweat, you know, my body was like full of adrenaline I'm taking any medication You weren't going on antibiotics? Did you have to decide whether you should take antibiotics, and then you know that compromises your endurance for sure,

or just let your body fight it off? I had it before. So I had been on the antibiotics, and they just make me feel terrible. If you've ever been through it, it's a terrible feeling. So I just was like, you know what? I think I can just push through it. And I'm young, was like you know what fuck it like let's just go like did you try any like uh natural remedies yeah yeah you know it wasn't a whole lot i could take because i also got to cut the weight still right you know uh there's like some topical stuff that

one of the things they say that works really well topical, believe it or not, is minced garlic. Really? Garlic apparently has a tremendous effect on staph infections. I was swallowing whole cloves of ginger. I remember I would take ginger, I would chop it up and I would swallow it to see if that would do something. But, you know, it's hard. Yeah, it's a hard.

Garlic has some real strong antibacterial properties. And one of the people that have been on the podcast many times, Dr. Rhonda Patrick, said she had dealt with some persistent staph infection. And she had like a hole in her skin. And what she did was she took garlic and packed it into that hole and fucking killed it. I mean, genius. I wish I would have known that before. I just kind of just fought through it. I was like, fuck it.

I'm just going. Defense soap makes some really good stuff for that too. They make these essential oils. It's tea tree oil and eucalyptus oil, and you put it on right where they have an injury. Where were you in October? Come on. What was going on?

I would have been there for you. Anybody else that has that staff, anytime you have any sort of ringworm or staff or anything, there's some natural stuff, not like some any sort of, uh, ringworm or staff or anything, there's some natural stuff, not like some bullshit homeopathic nonsense, but some actual real natural stuff that can help you. And defense soap specializes in that because, uh, Guy Sacco, the guy owns the company. He, uh, is, you know, coaches wrestling and deals with kids that always have ringworm

and staff infection. So he came out with these soaps, these natural soaps, that are just designed for grapplers. That's why it's called defense soap. And then I'll have him send you some. And then the essential oils and balms and stuff, like ointments for scratches and shit like that, so they don't get infected.

That's, you know, gyms, you're always getting infected. Yeah, and that was one of the biggest focuses of this camp, just like make sure I stay healthy. Because if you don't have your health, you don't have nothing. And that was what that was one of the biggest focuses of this campus like make sure I stay healthy because if you don't have Your health you don't have nothing and and that was what it was at that Tony fight And it's just it it became something I didn't want to it was such a big event And it was my first real big event to that I just wanted it all just to go right and go over but it ended up being just a lot of my body

The staff originally I think it came from mental stress. It was so many stresses going on. It's a lot of pressure. Yeah, and you look at the three biggest stressors. I was going through a divorce and I had just moved into a house. You look at those in a normal day-to-day life, those are the two biggest stressors you can have. Then to add on fighting for a

world title in six weeks so i'm just like let's fucking go like i'm like you know i wasn't expecting to i i was thinking maybe uh they was gonna give me tony but maybe in december in the in in detroit or something like that but it was like six weeks i was like all right well fuck let's do it that's right they were thinking about doing you in detroit right that was uh that was that was the talk and you were requesting a big fight in Detroit. Yeah, yeah. That's where all my, like, you know, every year I kind of plan out my year. And I got my vision in my head.

I got to call them wadables in there. That was one of them. But, yeah, it ended up putting a little bit too much stress on me all at once. And I took on a lot for that one. You did. I learned a lot. I'll tell you what, man. When you took him down and mounted him in the first round, I was like,

holy shit, because I know how good Tony is on the ground. You know, it's interesting because you don't – you look at someone when they fight, and this is one of the things that I've been saying about Khabib, because it's so hard because he's doing what people do, right? He's taking people down, he's mounting them, grounding, pounding them, but he's doing it to people that other people can't do it to and he's doing it in a way that it's like wow how good is this motherfucker like when he was mauling michael johnson i was like how fucking good is he because this is crazy like he's in that moment several levels better than anybody michael had

fought before on the ground and when i'm seeing you you, first of all, see the Chiesa fight, and right to this day, I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ, just let him go out. Let him go out, and we would have known. That minor controversy from that moment, you got a fully locked in, rear naked choke, and he's still conscious. Let him go out. If he doesn't want to tap, let him go out. He was going limp.

Maybe, but let him go out. But was going lip he was maybe but let him go out but you know the defense isn't you can't you can't some guys can but the thing is what you're saying but i know hickson can yeah but the thing is it the you the ref you can't put that on the ref you know it's defend yourself and tell it intelligently was that mario yeah it was mario but it's defend yourself now i know why you're but look but no no it But it's defend yourself. Now I know why you're Mario's buddy. But look, no, no. It's defend yourself intelligently at all times. You can't say I'm blocking punches with my face until the guy gets tired. You know, you can't say I'm just going to try and sleep in this choke until the guy gets tired of me.

He's trying to concentrate on his neck and just completely tense up his neck and try to push blood through. I've seen guys do that. I feel you, but. But only to a point, right? Only to a point, right? And then you go to sleep. through. I've seen guys do that. I feel you, but... Only to a point, right? Only to a point, right? And then you go to sleep. Let him go to sleep. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm with you.

He could have let him go to sleep. But I think as soon as Mario saw that his hands went from fighting the hands to doing this, Mario stopped it. I mean, and I thought it was a good stoppage. I mean... It's not a bad stoppage. It's not a bad stoppage, but it was controversial. You can call it all things.

Controversy is always good. I said that right after, like, keep it up. Keep it going. Like, I love it. Good for you. It got you to talk about it, at least. Oh, got everybody to talk about it. Yeah, I know.

Because it's an undercard fight, but it became, like, bigger even than a lot of the other fights on the card because of that. Yeah, yeah. No, no, we headlined that event, you know. It wasn't? Yeah. Oh, why did I think it was a... I thought that was on a pay-per-view that's right you're right i'm sorry he's doing my thing out there with that one now that but that fight was really like a top contender for me kiesa had been on a roll he's very strong on the ground which is one of the reasons why it was so impressive that you took his back and

choked him like that yeah i mean i think i have a different style than than uh a lot of people can see you know you you go back to khabib and and all this like his style is it's good it's obviously very good but i can see a lot of holes in it and i saw those holes many years ago i've been calling khabib for years i've been wanting to fight him just because people got those questions i got those questions too so i'm like let's see what this motherfucker got. Because I see it. I see them holes. I don't really focus on too much of the good.

I'm like. What holes? I got that boy number. I'm telling you, Joe. What are the holes? What do you see? Even on a lot of his takedowns, he misses a lot of them. He's very square.

He kind of just bum rushes. People were talking about the Barboza fight before, they're like are you looking at that fighter and you're gonna try and build off that one i'm like yeah i mean he did okay he the fight was good he beat the hell out of barboza but i saw the holes in it you know he's just running square forward adam you know he got hit with a lot of shots it's terrifying for for people on the outside watching him because the way he just came forward on Barboza was like he was indestructible. It didn't matter. I'm just

going to get you. It's just a matter of time. Keep throwing your kicks. I'm going to get you. I'm going to get you. Ooh, I got you. You got those guys, but the body gives up. Justin Gaethje is the same way. The body will give up. You can't keep putting your body on the line like that. I mean, if he wants to run at me square like that, I'm getting paid.

I'm getting paid. I'm sorry. I love Gagey. I love watching him fight. But part of me is like, Jesus, man. Just if he mixed what he can do, because he's one of the very best at leg kicks and close. That dude would be in the middle of a combination like chest to chest with you. And then somehow or another, he whips a leg kick straight down on your leg.

I mean, he's nasty with that. He's got a couple things that he does real good. I've been studying Genji, too. He's just hard-headed. He don't care. He'll take it. Yeah, he'll just take it and just walk right into it. But it seems like when you look at all the skills that he has like that would be

better represented with some movement and some footwork and some other things yeah especially with a guy like trevor whitman in his corner you know trevor's a great great coach right look what he did to rose i mean yeah he's been there i think their styles are are very opposite uh you know he should probably listen to him a little bit more like this is even one of the things with me and Robert Follis, you know, I had been with Robert. Robert was pretty much the only reason why I moved to Vegas, because there's a weird bond between, like, a fighter and a coach, you know, and he just got me more than any other coach before or since Will, you know.

We were very different, but he just understood me as an athlete a little bit more. And even some of the things that he would tell me, I wouldn't listen to it. Like, you know, he'd be like, you know, he'd try to tell me to stay smart and, you know, not brawl. At the end of the day, Joe, I'm like, fuck this. I'm going to fight. You know, I'm going to bite down on my mouthpiece. He tried to get me to be smarter.

And just some of the things that he would say to me resonated with me more than anybody else. So I think now that he's gone, I've put what he said. It's still in my head. And I try and follow it even more now. And I wish somebody like Gagey would listen to because you know whitman is telling him right what to do the right things to do he should he should probably listen to him well i think trevor just tries to compliment your style and gagey style is just savage he's just he's just going to war. We're going to war. Every time we're going to war. Yeah, I guess. I get it.

Yeah, but, you know, I think. Fun to watch. I think you learn from learning from somebody else. You know, I think everybody has what they do. That's like I said, I try and create a strong team around me where everybody has what they do. And I'm just going to try and listen to them. You know, and even more so now. And I'm just going to try and listen to him, you know, and even more so now.

Now that I understand that a little bit more as I'm getting older and, you know, going through life, too, with it. I said with Rob, you know, one of the one of the reporters there, he asked me, he was like, we seen you in there talking. And they thought I was talking to Barboza. But I was really just talking to myself like I was saying things that he would say or that Robert would say. Yeah, that Robert would say. And I'm saying them to myself. And I guess my mouth was moving. I don't really know. I thought it was in my head the whole time.

But I guess like some of the reporters could see it. But, you know, I really tried to make that a focus. That's interesting. So do you do that in sparring too? I don't know. I usually try and. Did you realize you were doing it until they brought it up i didn't realize i no i'm not because he when he asked me that it kind of

caught me off guard because i remember in the fight i'm very cerebral i i i remember everything about it uh but i remember i was gonna say something to barboza too you know i talk in my shit you know i do it in fights from time to time but i didn't because he was a nice guy i didn't realize that i was talking to myself, too, in it. So you were just kind of going through the things that you wanted to focus on in the fight while it was happening. Yeah. Do you remember what you were saying? Even the kick.

The kick that he landed. If you see a microsecond before that, I was nodding my head because I took my mind off him for a split second. I saw the knockout there. I seen him dip to his left and I'm like oh next time he dips I'm I'm about to get it so I started to to talk and I'm and I was like uh I like I got this and I took my mind off of him and he hit me with that fucking spin kick but what it should have said was stay sharp yeah you know stay stay focused like that's what I was saying in the fourth and the fifth round. After that kick landed, I was like, stay sharp, stay focused. And I'm just saying that to myself because that's what Rob would tell me.

He wouldn't tell me to, you know, look for the knockout. What was the thought process when you're going to face a guy like Barboza that's such a dangerous kicker? Was it a lot of feints plus pressure? Like, what was the thought process about getting close to him? With a guy like Barboza, he throws everything so hard and so explosive i knew i was gonna have to eat some of that uh and just keep pushing forward and just not take my eyes off of him even when i got wobbled and i was rocked i just try not take my eyes off of him you know with with a with a guy like that

that's such a great athlete uh which is what i consider Barboza as. You know, Rob had these three things. He put everybody in an athlete, a competitor, or a fighter category. And Barboza was like the epitome of an athlete. But with that, you can't show him that he's doing good. You know what I'm saying? That's what I'm saying. Every time he was throwing, I'm just like walking it off. That fucking switch kick is ridiculous.

He's got the most ridiculous switch kick in the game. It's so fast. Mark De La Grata, who's seen some of the best of the best fight in Thailand in real, you know, in life and like right there in person. He said, I've never seen a guy with a faster switch kick. He was even the top, the most elite of the Thais. He goes, that's the fastest switch kick I've ever seen. Even when he was dead tired. I mean, I beat the hell out of him.

And he was still throwing. I was like, how is this even possible? And fast, too, even in the third and fourth rounds. Swap. And some of it, I'm kind of like looking while I'm in there. I'm like, what is he doing that can make him do that? You know, I try and steal a little bit from every guy that I fight, especially. And I'm like, what is he doing that's allowing him to be that goddamn fast with it?

But, you know, I prepare, right? I prepare with a lot of high-level kickboxers that, you know, they got that style of kick. And they just kick it and fucking block off if you let them. Yeah, you're going to get something from that, right? Like a little, DC always calls it the rub. When you fight someone who's real good, you get that rub from him. You just realize now, oh, those kicks can come at you that fast. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, and you get that in a lot of different ways. Like with Tony, you know, Tony did a lot of things in there that I didn't expect and I didn't, you know, didn't really plan for. There's only so much planning that you can do until you get in there and you need that experience to rely back on. And I feel like that's what I'm building up at a young age even it's possible for you to rematch with tony with tony now coming off of that very disappointing uh fall you know when he was which is crazy i feel bad i need to say something too this is very important i actually have pictures

too and i'm gonna send them to you right now, Jamie, so we can put it online. Because everybody was repeating the thought that he had worn sunglasses and that's why he fell down. That he was wearing sunglasses inside. Yeah, he'd be wearing them little... He misspoke. He misspoke. And he said it to,

I think he said my prescription sunglasses to Ariel Helwani. I think that's what they were saying. The square ones that he wears. Yeah. I'll send it. I'm going to send it to Jamie right now. But it wasn't. But he was probably wearing sunglasses.

No, he wasn't. I have the photos. He's silly. I'll find it. God damn it. Tony loves those sunglasses. I know he does love those. okay, I know where it is. He does love those sunglasses.

No, Tony's a smart guy. You know, I don't hold that against him. It was probably something that was already injured in his leg. And I feel bad for the guy. I really do. I don't think he'll ever be the same coming back off that one. That's a big – you know, I hear detached it. Detached it from the bone.

Yeah. I mean, that's huge, especially at 34 to try and come back off that. It's going to, and it kind of sucks for me too because I think I fought the best Tony Ferguson that you're going to see, period, really. You think so? Because it was before that injury? Yeah, I don't think he's going to be the same again after it. And he'll come back and he'll still beat great guys guys you know he's still he's still gonna do very good but you

know i don't think it'll be the same and you know damn it i got this photo in here somewhere i'm gonna find it i can't find it i'll send it to you later but in the photo he's wearing glasses he's not wearing he's not wearing prescription sunglasses. He said, he misspoke and said prescription sunglasses. That's why Dana told me. Dana's ruthless. Dana goes, everybody who wears sunglasses inside should have that happen to them. This is after this huge fight fell apart is what Dana said. Yeah, I mean, he probably about right too, to be honest.

He's funny, man. Yeah, but he wasn't wearing sunglasses. Yeah, I mean. I just want to clear it up for Tony. Like I said, I mean, I feel bad for him. I really do. I think he'll. The good news is you can come back from that injury.

That's an injury you can come back from. At 34, especially with the way he trains. I mean, I think the body can come back. It's just I don't know if his mind will let him be as free. That was one of Tony's biggest assets to the style he just does whatever the fuck he wants and now when he gets back in there is he going to be thinking about his knee

even if that's in the back of your mind it's limited on that type of style that he likes to fight maybe you're just fucking with his head right now maybe you're planting some seeds, Kevin Lee. You never know. There's some money to be made, Joe. I got to get it, boy.

I understand. Well, he will be out for quite a while. I would imagine he won't be able to even really train hard for six months. Yeah, at least. He's at least a year out. When I look at that and I see that fight and just, you know, how much different shit could be now, you know, had I went into that fight healthy, especially. I think the entire division would look different. But I'm going to correct all that in a little bit.

Let me get my hands on Khabib first. Well, it's interesting. You're in the running now for sure. And before this fight, I think you were a slight underdog in the Barboza fight. Yeah, probably. But after that domination, I mean, you for sure moved up. And you're in the running now 100%. So you got Poirier, who just looked real good against Gagey and won that fight after getting his legs chewed up.

And then you've got – but Poirier, of course, was knocked out by Michael Johnson. And then you've got you coming off of the loss to Tony. Stormed the gates with this fight. And then you've got Eddie Alvarez who looked great against Justin Gagey. It's very hot. And then Conor is going to jail. Who knows what's happening? I think that's the X factor is what's happening with Conor.

I mean, Dustin is out there. But I just don't see no... I'm speaking as if from a fan. I just don't see no upsides to that. To you fighting him? No, no, to him and Khabib. I mean, they can make it happen,

and Khabib will go out there and he'll smoke them. I mean, it should be real here. But I just don't see many fans getting behind that just from what does Dustin bring to the table that Khabib ain't already seen. This is the big fight right now. I mean, just being completely honest. The big fight right now is Khabib and Conor in Russia.

That's the big fight. That's the big fight. Or even Madison Square Garden. I mean, they can make that happen. I don't think New York is ever letting that motherfucker fight there again. I just don't think they're going to do that. They don't play games, man. That athletic commission is a different commission.

And they're new to MMA. And that was embarrassing for them. I mean, him throwing the fucking dolly and the fact that they let them get in there with all his boys. And the whole thing was just so thuggish. And didn't the thing in Bellator happen in – was that in New York or New Jersey? What thing happened in Bellator? Where he went over and slap goddard and all that you know he called people bitches and hoes and where was that i want to say that was in ireland

or england was it in ireland i think it was in england i want to say it was in london wasn't that the bellator london card i don't know i don't know but that goddard thing was crazy yeah yeah i felt like that happened on the east coast too but i mean if that was one either way this is two it's like he just keeps fucking up with this kind of stuff and and you know no one's saying get rid of him he's just he's worth so much money it's really fascinating what i was saying is imagine if ray borg and him switch sides if ray borg showed up with all his boys and was screaming and yelling and threw a dolly at the window. It's done deal. It's done deal forever.

Oh, it's done deal. Forever. Think about Paul Daly. Paul Daly must be at home going, motherfucker. Hey, look. It's certain things. Fuck Dana White. It's certain things that we just can't do.

Paul, I'm sorry. Until you get to that stratosphere yeah that conor mcgregor it's like there's so much money to be made that's the problem it's like the rules get bent ball paul did was throw a punch as he was josh koscheck after it didn't even connect yeah like that could have been sorted out yeah and uh you even had guys like like will brooks kind of got the hammer put down on him didn't he uh after he got knocked out and then pushed the ref uh i think was that will brooks i'm sorry i don't know i don't know you're looking at me funny i don't know i'm thinking you're right it was somebody you know he got knocked out and then pushed the ref right after and it's like they put a lot on oh no it wasn't well books I'm sorry. It was... God, 170 pounder.

I know who you're talking about. Damn. God damn it. Who was that? God, this is going to kill me. Sorry. We'll figure it out. And they held him against him, and he was concussed.

You barely know where you're at. Jason High. Yeah, that's what it was. A great fighter, too. That's what it was. Great fighter too. He's a very good fighter. What people don't understand is that once you get knocked out and then you come back, you really don't know what happened.

You're really out of it. Who knocked him out? It was Dos Anjos, right? Yeah, it was Dos Anjos. That was Dos Anjos' welterweight debut, right? No, it was at 55 still. Yeah, 55 still. But again, he was a great fighter. I mean, it's just certain things that we just can't do, Joe.

Oh, we meaning people of color. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, look, I don't want to say it that way. Do you think that Floyd Mayweather could do it, though? No, Floyd can do it. I just think it's people with that. There's a level to the game where you're so valuable. Yeah.

Like, if Conor McGregor does a pay-per-view fight, especially if they do – you heard all that crazy nonsense they were going to do with McGregor, like no shoes, you can clinch, but no kicks, no takedowns, no – if they ever did that, they're just printing money. They're printing money. Yeah, I mean, 100%. It's so hard for them to not take that money. But, I mean, and I don't hold that against them.

And I've always said that about the UFC. You see about the green. And I understand that. And that's kind of where I'm coming from. But, you know, it's just. Consistency. Yeah. Well, I think you just have to realize as a black man in America, really.

Like, there's two ways to approach the situation. You either be the victim or you can just say it is what it is. That's some circumstances. Black people just don't support other black people the way the Irish support the Irish, the Russians support. I'm just being real with you. The reality is white people in America don't support white Americans

the way the Irish support Conor. Nobody does. 100%. It's an American thing. Were you in Vegas when he was fighting Mayweather? Did you see the fucking people that were in Mandalay Bay, which wasn't even where the fight was taking place. The entire place was flooded with people singing together. When he fought Dustin Poirier at 178, they kept me up all night.

I was on the undercard of that fight. They kept me up all fucking night in the MGM. They were running up and down the halls of the MGM. Security couldn't stop them. I mean, they're crazy. They're rabid. But that's what's going to – I mean, obviously, he had great performances on top of it. For sure.

But that definitely helps. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. When your first fight in the UFC debut is in Boston, they're going crazy for you like that. Yeah. You just don't see that much. And it's sad, really. You talk about Floyd Mayweather.

Really how Floyd got big like that is he had to go against the Mexicans, and he had to get them to really hate him in order to get big. But that's also his style, whereas Conor's style is very different because he knocks guys dead. It's a different style. Remember when Tyson was in his prime? You knew no one was going to beat him. You know, like, remember when Tyson was in his prime? You knew no one was going to beat him.

It was just, you were waiting to see the executions when you were just a little boy at the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You probably weren't even born. My pops was a huge

Mike Tyson fan. What time were you born? 92. Yeah, see, Jesus Christ, you missed everything. Well, my pops was a huge Mike Tyson fan. I'm a huge boxing fan,

so, you know, I go back. You were born in 92. That's hilarious. I'm a huge boxing fan, yeah. Just as old as the back and I'm out. You were born in 92. That's hilarious. I'm a huge boxing fan. Yeah, just as old as the UFC, actually, so. That's crazy, right? Pretty much, right?

It was a year after you were born. It started. Yeah, man, but the Tyson days, he was the biggest paper you draw, but it was really just you were watching an execution. And there was also, like,

people were thinking, like, man, is this going to be worth it? How long is this one going to last? But he still, he was, he had to be the villain a little bit. And that's the, every, I mean, it sucks to say, it's just like every real big black fighter is usually the villain.

And that's the way that we kind of get over it. But Anthony Joshua's not, but that's not American. Yeah, he's British. It's different. He's totally different, man. He's loved over there. Yeah, it's a totally different atmosphere. He's totally different, man. He's loved over there.

Yeah, it's a totally different atmosphere. When was the last time we had a really loved African-American fighter in America? I mean, they're out there. I mean, for sure. People love Roy Jones. Roy Jones, for sure. People love Muhammad Ali after his career. But even Roy Jones took some shit for being cocky.

Well, for sure. Because he was so dominant. But that's the culture, though. You shit for being cocky. Well, for sure. Because he was so dominant. But that's the culture, though. You got to be cocky. You got to be all those things. Even the way I talk a lot of shit, but that's just because that's the culture. That's what I do. Well, it's also an effective mind game strategy.

A guy who's talking shit to you it makes you more anxious more nervous more emotions more everything with certain guys you know there's certain guys that you can play that too uh like i said everybody's got like those three categories you know you with athletes especially athletes and competitors you know they kind of you know get more shooken up by stuff like a fighter don't give a fuck you know you talk shit to Nate Diaz, he don't give a fuck. Right. That perfect example. He loves it. He likes it.

He likes it more. Me, I like it a little bit more. Conor, you can tell, he likes it a little bit more. It gets my mind off the actual fight itself

because that's what we grew up like talking shit, you know, so it's. Some guys though, it rattles them. You know, the best I've ever seen,

the best response to someone shit talking, Rose Namajunas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She just went dark. Masterful. She went like a monk. I'm a huge Rose fan.

She's so badass. Yeah, she's dope. She might be the best-looking girl in the UFC, and she shaves her fucking head and never wears makeup. She doesn't give a fuck. Yeah, yeah. I mean. It's crazy. Yeah, and she's, I mean, a phenomenal, phenomenal fighter.

Phenomenal. Yeah, I mean. But just when she was standing in front of Ioana, and she was citing mean a phenomenal phenomenal fighter phenomenal yeah I mean but just when she was standing in front of Joanna and she was citing the Lord's Prayer gangster Joanna's like

I'm the boogeyman come to get you I'm the boogeyman and she's like our father would never be the name of the most gangster shit you ever heard in your life

it's crazy it's like a movie dude she made me nervous she made me nervous when I was standing next to her that's what the thing with you know people look at my style even the way I I promote it and talk fights and, you know, talk shit or whatever. But there's so many ways to do it.

You know, there's so many ways to, like, entertain and have fun with it. You don't always have to be, I'm going to smack the shit out of your mama and all this. Right, right. You know, there's so many different ways. You can not say anything and become off just as fucking gangster as, you know, the dude that's screaming from across the room. But there is a pressure, right? Isn't there pressure on fighters to sell and hype fights, to talk a lot of shit? I mean, you're seeing Colby Covington taking it off the deep end.

He goes so crazy, I don't even think they let him go to Brazil. Like, when I heard that he was going to fight Dos Anjos in Brazil, I was like, no, Colby. I was thinking of reaching out and telling people to call and bring your own water, whatever you do. I mean, I guess he's doing his thing. He's still winning fights. So at the end of the day, that's what really matters is that he's winning fights. But, yeah, I mean, that style is. He's got us talking about him.

He's got us talking about him. Yeah, that too. That too. But that style, I mean, that shit get played He's got us talking about him. He's got us talking about him. Yeah, that too. That too. But that style, I mean, that shit get played out. And you can just tell. And when it's forced, it's not good. You know what I mean? Well, he just goes against people he doesn't have to.

Like, he was talking some shit about Jon Jones. Yeah. Like, Jon Jones will smack you in your fucking face, and there's not much you're going to be able to do about it. One day you might be in front of him, and then what are you going to do? You know? I mean, just... You're not even fighting john jones why are you talking shit about john yeah it doesn't make any sense i don't know a couple people even even females like he started i mean i guess he's he's just trying to get the noise running whatever i just think it's so many different ways to do it that's that's like the

most primitive way of you know kind of trying to sell yourself and sell a fight it's like so many ways like even me like i came up with a lot of the shit that i that i started doing i just like kind of came up with you know in the moment yeah just well before the the the the first big one was the mike kiesa thing you know where i kind of hit him at the press conference uh but going into that my mindset wasn't like oh let me you know talk as much shit as I can about them you know or let me you know jump up and down and all this you know it just was I did have that I wanted to stand out right not necessarily I want to entertain I just was like I'm on I want to state I'm sitting behind fucking John Jones and Daniel Cormier Like I'm like a kid in the candy store, you know So I just I wanted to

Stand out as much as possible, you know And do you feel like now that you've had a few these big fights right the kiesa fight was a high-profile fight And then of course the Tony fight was a very high profile and then this last barboza fight was a real big fight Do you feel like now you've like settled more into the fact that not only do you belong here, you deserve to be here, but you're more comfortable being here? Yeah, there's that saying, like, the fake it till you make it. Right. You know?

Like, for real. That's not a joke. Why were you faking it? Like, when did you feel like you were faking it? Obviously, you were never really faking it because you were winning fights. I exaggerated. You know? Like, I i exaggerated shirt shit like i i was having fun with it but i was kind of learning on the job too uh because like doing interviews and stuff like that it takes some it's it's hard to get to your level like you're very like i listen to your show

all the time like you love it thank you uh but you are like very good at it you know it takes a long time to to do that i had to kind of learn on the job so yeah i would exaggerate a little bit too much here and there but uh the fake it till you make it thing like i think it's a lot of people hear that and they like take it take it like negatively all the time you know i always heard that and i took it positive. I read George St. Pierre's book and he talked about that a lot. He texted me two days before this fight with Barboza and he was talking about giving me some tips and pointers and all that. But the last thing he said to me was,

you're going to have that fear before you go in there, but once you get in there, your body's just going to turn on autopilot. Just fake it until you make it. Fake the confidence until you make it. And i think that's how he approaches it that's interesting that's interesting what fight what it was is like i said going into that press conference especially i wanted to stand out and through the rest of my life in detroit especially i was always taught like don't stand out as much as you can like i was like i was like stay low and keep moving chill like keep your head down like that you know them folks businesses them folks business you know you

i always stayed on what i'm doing you know i always kind of had a vision always had to go so it my opposite was to stand out so i had to kind of fake it till i and i'm not necessarily fake it till i make it fake it till i became it you know what I'm saying and I think it was right after the Tony fight where I was like maybe the two months

it took me to get over it at that moment I was like man I really like do have that confidence to you know

I do have like I don't have to fake it you know what I'm saying the Tony fight the Tony fight I mean your podcast too I mean your podcast has been huge to. I mean, your podcast, too.

I mean, your podcast has been huge to me. I mean, it's hard for me to really explain it. You know, me just growing up, like, I didn't have a lot of confidence. You know, like, people see me and see me in interviews, and they just think that's how I was. But I would lose a lot of my wrestling matches as a kid just because I thought that, and this might alienate some people, and it might sound like off, but it's just the way I grew up. The white boys above eight mile, you know, they got the money. They're working harder than you. They're better than you.

So that was kind of like my mentality, kind of, even when I started wrestling. And like these kids start wrestling when they're five. I started when I was 16. And they just would beat me. And like, I couldn't even, I wouldn't even really compete with them, you know? It took me to go to college because that was my first real exposure to white people.

That's crazy. What's that sound? Like, i obviously knew white people when i was a kid you know we the teachers and stuff you know but nobody around my same age you know what i'm saying so when i got around and there's one school in particular is detroit catholic central they were number one school in in michigan at the time but they were uh so in detroit every mile is is numbered i was born and raised pretty much on seven mile uh eight mile is like the divider between the suburbs and the city these kids were like on 26 mile so they were like way out there like with you know rich rich so i just i don't know for some reason i just didn't have the confidence but when i got around them and i started living and kind of training together every day and I realized I'm like we all the same You know like

He works us just as hard as like I can see him every day You know he's I see him going it's a class and I see him going to his to his house and it that Moment gave me the confidence to be like, okay. I can't compete with them, with, with other people. You know, I can't compete with anybody really. Your podcast was like the next step to that. You know, that was me at like the collegiate level.

The first podcast I heard from you was the Lance Armstrong one. And I was like, this is like world level, you know? And when I hear him talk and I hear him talk so candidly and I'm like, oh, he's just a normal dude. You know what I mean? He's just, I guess in my head I didn't have that before, you know? And it's like we're all the same.

And that really has allowed me to go over to Ireland and compete, to go down to Brazil and compete, to fight the best kickboxer in the world and not have that and still have that same confidence. You know what I'm saying? I see what you're saying. Like just hearing people talk and realizing that they're we're all just human yeah yeah yeah but all the same you see some superstar in whatever whatever their field is whether it's a musician or whatever you just assume that person has got to be like a different thing than you like this you know if you see mick jagger or something like that it's got to be a different thing than me.

Yeah. He's not the same thing as me. Yeah. And the thing with, and I started the hashtag like 25 to life and all that, mostly because the way I grew up, I didn't get to see many successful people. You know what I'm saying? I didn't have. Right. It's a, nobody ever told me, oh, you can't do this.

You know what I'm saying? But nobody ever told me I could either. And nobody showed you other people that were doing it right around you where you could learn from them. I had no examples. The only examples, literally the only examples I had was the dope man, the Jack Boys, the pimps. And you didn't really have much else to really look forward to. So I thought when I was 25, like where i am now i thought for sure i was just gonna be in jail like yeah that is that that's one of the most important points

when people talk about people being able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and they should just get a job and they should just do this like you say that because you grew up around that yeah but if you didn't grow up around anybody doing that like your feeling that you feeling the way you felt when you're around wrestlers that had been competing their whole lives, you didn't feel like you belong there. You didn't have any of that success around you. That's, that is one of the most important things in life is surrounding yourself with positive people. And it's so difficult to do if you're in a bad place. If you grew up in a bad neighborhood and you're surrounded by bad people, very few people have the vision to see past that.

And they have no examples. I mean, you see someone on television, again, you're going to think, that's not me. Like still to this day when I meet a rock star, I still get weirded out. I still get weirded out. It doesn't matter how famous you get. You get weirded out around other famous people. They just don't seem like you. Yeah.

Yeah. people they just don't seem like you yeah yeah and and especially when you kind of grow up in that environment and you know it's you don't really you know you see a doctor on tv and you don't you just don't connect with it you know and at least for me like that's what i wanted to be i wanted to be a doctor uh first but i didn't you know i didn't live in neighborhoods with doctors you know i didn't be the doctor when i did he was like some old dude and it's like he didn't really give a fuck like he's like you know your, you know, you on Medicaid, motherfucker. Like, you know, take your 35 bucks and get the fuck on. But, you know, I think that is a big point of it is just to have somebody to tell you that you can.

You know what I'm saying? So at least I try. And then to see people around you that are working hard and succeeding and emulate them and learn from them. People, we don't exist in a vacuum. We exist in communities. And this is something that is very difficult for people to understand if they're in a good community.

If you're in a good community or if you're in a bad community, it's difficult to understand to the value of a good community. 100%. a good community or if you're in a bad community it's difficult to understand too the value of a good community 100 i think one of the biggest uh things is just that integration is like really important like and i'm starting to see that the more i'm getting out and kind of seeing the world and and seeing the way things run and kind of comparing that to the way i grew up and it's just like there was no there was so much it just seemed so segregated to me, which is a weird term to use in this day and age. You know, but it just did like literally the I remember because my mom, she did a good job of keeping us in good schools. You know, so our school was on 10 mile, which was in the suburbs. I went to Southfield High.

I remember a couple of times me and my brother, we would try and walk to the school. But I remember a couple times me and my brother, we would try and walk to the school. So you had to walk past through 8 Mile. And a policeman had pulled over three or four times, picked us up in the car, and took us back across and then dropped us off. And it's like we go to school there. You know what I mean? They didn't believe you? No, they didn't fuck with us.

We weren't also like the best looking kids probably or something. know you're up to no good yeah yeah we did but but you know you have to but i feel like that integration if it's just it's just really really important and i'm starting to see that the more i'm getting out and learning the world is uh you know we all the same literally we're all the same all the same yeah like and i mean we vary for sure but we're all just people you know and and sometimes having all those advantages when you're young is a disadvantage because the hungriest most determined people are the people that had nothing at one point in their life when they understand what nothing means yeah yeah and i mean and i think i attribute that to a lot of my success and that's what i i always keep in the back of my head, you know, especially going through college.

Like, it was such a rough, like, you know, 20 bucks a week I survived off of. And I was fighting full time. I was, you know, taking 15 credits. I was wrestling still at the same time. Like, and I just was on the hustle. I was moving. Super grind.

Yeah, super grind, but on nothing. Like, you know, I had like 1996 uh thunderbird with like 300 000 miles and i was burning that shit up like every day uh but i keep that in the back of my head even now like i don't i don't i don't ever get comfortable i don't ever get content with i think about that with having kids because i have young kids and i think my kids have never known like that kind of financial struggle like I think financial struggle in particular is something that just to this day I still think about being broke and it just it motivates me like I'm I'll never slack off because that I just I think if you

haven't but also like when you have kids you don't want your kids to struggle it's like that to all my friends that are interesting all I've fucked up lives all of them everyone had everything went crazy everyone was fucking abused or someone was an asshole there's alcoholics or drug addicts in their family yeah yeah they're all the fun ones and they're all my favorite people and they use it as motivation to learn the world and learn things and that's what i kind of did as a as a kid I I kind of took a look around when I was maybe 15 I was probably like the the the time that really clicked for me when I found MMA and I and I kind of saw that this is what I want to do uh that's when it kind of clicked I was just like I don't want to be around like like the rest of these motherfuckers here how did you get started

where'd you where'd you find a good gym so uh when I was 15, I saw George St. Pierre and BJ Penn was the first time I'd seen a fight. And there was no MMA gyms or anything like that. I just went out for the wrestling team at high school because I was already there and all that. So I didn't start really getting into MMA until I came back one year from college. And I wanted to sign up for a jiu-jitsu tournament. And I never trained it or anything. I went and signed up for the jiu-jitsu tournament. And then the guy's like, oh, yeah, we do some fights on the jiu-jitsu tournament on Sunday.

He was like, we do some fights on Saturday. And there's nobody for this guy. I was like, fight that motherfucker right now. I never trained before. I just wrestled. So I was like, yeah, please. I was like, fight that motherfucker right now. I never trained before. I just wrestled. So I was like, yeah, please. It was like Tuesday.

How old were you? 18. Yeah. I just showed up. No mouthpiece. I didn't know you needed a mouthpiece or cup or anything. Oh, you didn't have a cup?

Yeah. The dude I fought was like 26. Well, they went to Walmart because as I'm getting ready to step into the octagon I was like where's your mouthpiece and cup and I was like

what? you know preparing for a wrestling match I guess and they ran to Walmart grabbed me one and I beat the fuck out of the guy did you have any striking at all?

what I saw on TV oh my god I didn't really have real training until i got into the until i got over to i mean i i trained hard uh with with one of my coaches uh sean to say he was my first true coach in in michigan and we trained hard uh and he he showed me a lot of things he was a boxer so he showed me a lot of things um but i didn't really have a real you know i was still a full-time student when i got the call from the ufc you know i got the call in like december and finals i got the call like finals week and i was like well shit let me let me go ahead bust out these finals and then you know i'm done with this shit uh and then the fight was like late january i think or so so yeah so i was like a full-time

student when i took the i was taking 15 credits as a med student. So you really had only had like a couple of years of striking at that point. Yeah, yeah, if that, yeah. And, you know, a lot of wrestling and a lot of, you know, I didn't really get really good into striking until I got over to Vegas and worked with Dewey Cooper. That makes it even more impressive, man, you know, that you've been able to make such a big leap in such a short amount of time.

I mean, that's, we're talking about like seven years now. I mean, that's really crazy. Consistency, I think. Consistency is the key. Like, I love this shit. Like, I got the most fights in the lightweight division since my debut than anybody else. And it's just because I stay consistent. I keep my body healthy.

I keep showing up. And, you know, the more you see things coming at you, the better it gets. That's definitely a factor. But I think it's also intelligence, the understanding of your – also, there's different kinds of intelligence, too. And there's intelligence of how to get good at things. just, I don't know if it's a physical thing, if their body works better, or if it's just that they are able to see how someone does something and listen to instruction and then break it down and put it together. But I've seen it in little kids, man.

When I used to teach little kids, there was little kids that weren't even like physically talented. It's not like they were gymnasts. They could do backflips and shit. They could do crazy shit with their body. There's some kids where you would show them, like, see this foot? This foot's got to pivot. And then it's all about your hips.

And they would see you, and they would go, okay. And then you would see them breaking it down. And then other kids, they'd be like, oh. They just couldn't see what you were doing. They'd throw their feet up in the air. Their foot would never pivot. They'd put all this pressure on the knee. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Don't do that. Don't do that. You've got to turn your hips. Your foot's got to go with it. And then some people just could mirror you. I see it in jujitsu too. Yeah, yeah, for sure, big time. In jujitsu and grappling especially, you know, grappling and wrestling.

They just see it. I think it's come, like you say, it's an intelligence. Yes. You know, people think it's just a brute thing that you're doing, but it's very, you know, at least for for me, I approach it kind of like a science. It's almost A, B, C, D, E. I go from here. If not, then I branch off.

I have different systems for every kind of situation that will arise, but I kind of approach it like a scientist. I went to school for a bio man. That kind of stuff interests me. You know what I mean? There's art to it. There's a huge, huge portion of it that's art. Expression. Yeah, the expression part is art.

And I think it's one of the purest art forms, fightiness, that there is. If someone looks great doing it, that is like a form of art. Oh, 100%. 100%. I get so irritated whenever somebody says it's not. They're crazy.

I get so irritated. Did you see Bell not. They're crazy. I get so irritated. Did you see Bellator when Gaston Bolanos landed that insane spinning elbows, like one of the greatest spinning elbows of all time? Probably, probably. I've watched that shit about 80 times. I just play it back like I'm watching a flower bloom or watching a fucking eagle soar. It's just, he lands this. The dude's coming out of me steps and bang

just at the perfect dude just face plants i'm like that shit is just art that's art but even when you see like a really really high level fighter move around every one of our bodies moves different you know every sure you know yeah you you go back to you know being able to see somebody and emulate it but you still will put your own style on it you still put your nobody moves the same you know and i think that's what makes it a pure art form and i think mma is more so even than boxing because in boxing you only got two hands it's a science you know it's a sweet science there's only so many combinations that you can even put together that but when you when you talk about something that's, you know, without limits, then there's so much art that goes into it. It's like dance.

It's like yoga. It's like all these things that are really the truest form of art, I think. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. You know, and that's why I was mad at Meryl Streep. Yeah, yeah. Not really. She's an old lady. You know, she doesn't know anything about mixed martial arts, which are not the arts.

They are the arts. 100%. They are. And I think the most purest form of it, too. What else do you call arts, if not that? Well, they don't understand what it is. And one of the things that they don't understand is that it's so difficult to do and that when you see the finished product, when the person steps into the cage

and competes that night, you're not just seeing these brutish moves. You're seeing their soul. You're seeing how much focus, where they are as a human in their life at this point. Where's the vitality of their body? What kind of martial arts education have they gotten? How technically aware are they? How much did they think about the training? If they're a wrestler, did they only concentrate on the wrestling?

Did they stay away from striking because they don't like getting hit? If they're a striker, did they only concentrate on staying up, or did they learn how to fight on the ground? Did they absorb it all? Did they develop a full repertoire of expression with their body, throwing bones and choking each other? And at the same time, going through life, through the whole situation, you know, that's the hardest part. At the end of the day i'm still a 25 year old dude like i'm

still like learning shit and trying to keep it together yeah yeah like everybody else so and you know i'd be like that when you're 80 man probably it fucking is man we look at these 80 year old people who say well that guy should have a shit together that fucking guy's better today than he was yesterday if he's paying attention I think even to go back I think that's what it is too at the core of it I always think that everybody else has their shit together I just assume

everybody else that's from your childhood 100% I think 100% I have the same problem I think everybody has their shit together and everybody can see that I don't and like they can see my flaws and it keeps me sharp, though. It translates to fighting, too. It's like if my hand goes here for a split second,

I feel like the guy can see it. Or when I throw something, I feel like he's going to be there to block it. That's the best way to say it. It makes me stay sharp. But it goes from sometimes outside of life, too. Well, it's good that you think like this because clearly you're a very confident guy and you're

obviously successful in your mixed martial arts career but to have just a little bit of that insecurity is fuel. It just like keeps you sharp. It keeps you aware. You know like to be confident is good. To be delusional is terrible. Yeah 100%.

Terrible. Everybody knows that one guy that thinks he can beat a guy that he's not ever going to fucking be able to beat. You know, I mean, there's a lot of people like, give me that fight. I'll take that fight. Oh, yeah, 100%. It's like, well, hold on, bro. It's like, hold on. It's like, wait. Hold on.

That's why you don't see, you know, you never see me say some outlandish shit like, oh, I can't never be beat. Or, you know, or I can go out be beat or you know or i'm oh i can go out there and you know armbar kane velasquez you know or something like that i mean not meaning to pick on ronda but uh i know what you're saying yeah but you know but i think you know the ronda thing is there was a lot going on there man coaching wise there's a lot going on there what she just came along at a time when there was no one like her. She was a real Olympic caliber athlete and her

judo was at such a high level no one could fuck with her. She was throwing people around until someone could fuck with her. Until she ran into someone like Holly Holm. Then we really saw the holes in the preparation, the distractions, the fact that she had

movie deals going on. They wanted her to do Roadhouse and she's saw the holes in the preparation the distractions the fact that she had you know movie deals going on they wanted her to do Roadhouse and she's scripts and this and agent meetings and all the bullshit man it's like a fucking Hollywood it was like a Hollywood script yeah like this is what happens to you and this is how look Rocky when Rocky went soft I mean this is literally what happens and then all sudden you got this badass Holly Holmes sitting there ready to fucking head kick you into another dimension. And that's what happened. And like you said, I think most of it is just trying to stay aware and not get delusional about it.

Because it is very easy to kind of slip into that and fall into that. And, you know, sometimes shit will hit you. And that's what happened in my second my second fight that i lost uh to leonardo santos and in in each fight i can always see myself losing you know and people ask me that and they're like you talk about all this visualization that you do like sometimes i visualize myself getting hurt too in fights do you do that to see how you recover like how do you what do you do so it's not a new experience when Barboza fucking spinning heel kicks me in the head.

It's always the punch that don't hurt you. We were texting before that fight and we were setting up this podcast. Listen, I just got to concentrate on making sure that dude don't kick me in the head. And then after the fight,

like damn, he fucking kicked me in the head. You were definitely, definitely preparing yourself for the possibility. Because it has to be there. It has to. The only fight that it wasn't there for me

was Leonardo Santos because he was, I mean, multiple time champion on the ground in jujitsu. So I was only really worried about his ground game. I kind of just dismissed his

stand up and I'm like there's no way this guy's going to beat me and the worst thing happened in the fight the first minute he got me down and I got him off me in like 30 seconds or something and after that I was like whew this is about to be a cakewalk I'm about to run through this man

he don't I'm like it was 17 000 people in the arena i'm like we all just waiting on him to fall you know only him he was the only one that saw it he could clip me uh and i'll be damned but uh how valuable was that fight for you though i mean it was probably the one of the most important ones in my career. I mean, there's been a couple. The losses have always been the ones that I feel like I will look back and I'll say, damn, that was the one that really made it.

That fight in particular, I think, really made it because it kind of drilled home some of the things that Robert Follis was selling to me. That's the only fight since I've been in Vegas. Well, obviously since before this fight but that robert fathers wasn't in my corner and it was if i'm being honest it was save some money you know save the 10 that he that he was wanting or whatever and i was like i'm gonna smoke this kid like i'm like rob just sit back you know you you watch it from home enjoy and and i'm gonna go out there and i'm gonna smoke this kid and i didn't have his voice of reason to make me say, this kid is dangerous everywhere. You know what I mean?

Stay sharp everywhere. And I let my guard down and he hit me with a good punch. But it was that one where I was like, I never had Rob not in my corner again or that voice. And now I have to make do without it. But, you know, I think he was that voice. Yeah, he was. But to go back, he was just that voice of reason not to get delusional. You know what I mean?

Because it is easy, especially when you're young and you got the hormones flying and you feel like you're the man. Like, you know, you confident like, shit, I'm the man. You can't touch me. But you got to like have somebody like, hey, bro, bro. You're very good, but you still got to be sharp too. These men that you're fighting are very, very good too. Do you think that sometimes someone can't tell it to you? Do you just have to learn it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You got to go through those experiences. And I think that's in all walks of everything. And that's kind of what I bring to it too you like i don't want to just be a just a great fighter you know i want to be great at everything like i want to be a chef and i want to be you know a dancer and i want to be a scientist you know a doctor and i like that's just the way my brain works i just want to be the best at fucking everything good for you uh this is a great way to think man like i've been mad but it's kind of interesting sometimes, but, you know.

But, you know. It's a great expression. The way you do anything is the way you do everything. Yeah. Well, probably. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think there's something to that.

If you half-ass things, I mean, you can get away with being a great fighter and still half-ass things in your life but maybe you would be better if you didn't like maybe you would be even an even better fighter or better whatever you are a fucking tennis player whatever it is if you didn't half-ass other things in your life maybe you you would really reach your full potential 100 and i think that even even in the fighting realm you know that that's what a lot of this last fight was for me uh is getting back to making the fight first doing focusing on the fight before anything else and relieving some of the mental stress off me before i step into the when i stepped in for that uh tony fight i was already tired i was already my body was already my brain was just overloaded and i was already broken down. And, you know, I made the fight second or I made the fight last, you know.

I put everything else before, you know. We went race car driving the week of the fight. And looking back on it after, I was like, oh, my God. In Vegas? Yeah. Did you go to one of those exotic places? The Dream Racing. Shout out to them. I mean, they hooked me up.

I had fun don't you think it's also important to have some recreation yeah yeah but you know that's a little that was too much

a little too much mostly because they were like filming and I wanted to make it you know good and you know we had fun with it oh for like the

countdown shows yeah yeah yeah but you know how hard is that shit how hard is that the press obligations and all the constant interviews and all that shit. I enjoy it.

I mean, I enjoy them. I honestly enjoy doing media for the most part. It's just, you know, uncertain. It can be too much sometimes. Do they organize it around your training or do you have to organize your training around media obligations? I usually organize it around my training. That's good. Yeah.

When you hear that the training has to be organized around media obligations, I'm like, oh, that's not good. I mean, maybe. I've heard of people having to get up at 6 in the morning and do a block of radio calls and shit. I'm like, well, I don't like that. Yeah. I don't like that shit.

Yeah, you have to do that, kind of i just make do with it you know i mean i i think as long as you're enjoying it and you just kind of going with the flow it's not a hindrance necessarily if you if you're like fuck i don't want to fucking be here i want to get up at 6 a.m and do this shit and you know then when you get to all i want to do is train the whole time you know it's it can be a hindrance even more so right yeah i guess right like it's the way you approach something will change like what that thing is yeah and and it's got to be natural for you too you know i i actually like like doing it so uh i think it's just something that you know if you if i could see myself if i forced it or if i you know was one of these guys

that didn't at all then yeah i could see it being even a bigger hindrance. But since I like it, I mean, it's fine. That's great. Well, as long as it doesn't fuck with your training. One of the things I was really impressed about Saturday night is your endurance. I mean, you were fresh as a daisy even in the fifth round. And that was a grueling pace. You know, and we didn't really focus too much on too much conditioning.

You know, I did a lot of long runs to kind of thin my muscles out a little bit. I did a lot of, like, longer distance, longer cardio stuff. I kind of got away from, like, a lot of the explosiveness that I used to do, especially for the Tony fight. Tony fight was all explosion. It was all, like, big movements. It was all, like, you know, I'm going to get out there. I'm going to knock this motherfucker out. But this fight, and I realized, like, during it, I was like, you know i'm gonna get out there i'm gonna knock this motherfucker out right uh but this fight and i realized like during i was like you know i gotta approach it smarter

and and in that it actually became better cardio than me pushing myself too hard right you know what i'm saying yeah i'm you know i'm torn on that because i see guys preparing that way where they do a lot of long runs and you know like that's a big Nate Diaz thing and his brother Nick and you know they do ultra marathons and triathlons and I feel like there's some real benefit to having that deep base and cardio 100 but I mean it's balance balance like anything else with life you know you you gotta you gotta be able to to balance those really strong tough know, you can't explode every time. You can't sprint the whole time. You can't run a marathon the whole time either.

So I try my best to, that's how I want to be as well-rounded as I possibly can be and having great cardio and understanding what that's like is part of that. Yeah, it's hard for people to understand, but you're not throwing 100% of your power all the time. Yeah, you can't. You can't. Yeah, no, you can't, especially not with a guy like Barboza who is in there the whole time. There were some spots that I got him, and it's like guys normally will give up. They'll quit. I've hit him with big shots, and he's just steady showing the ref that I'm still in this thing.

I'm still moving. And then he stands up, and he can spin and wheel kick you. And, you know, he's still got that explosiveness in him. You know, you can't go 100% right out the gate. You got to pick it. You can't be compromised. You got to be smart. You can't wear out.

You got to be smart. Yeah. And that's one of the things that Rob would always tell me. And, again, that's one of the things I'm telling myself during the fight is be smart. Be smart. Barbosa is also, I think, the first guy and the only guy to stop two people with leg kicks yeah yeah yeah vicious leg kicks yeah my shin is yeah my shin's on fire right now yeah i checked a couple of them uh but did you bring in anybody that does wheel kicks or anything to get used to that uh the timing of that yeah a couple guys uh really good

taekwondo uh specialist and his name is Vlad. Shout out to Vlad. He's probably the best. He's a little bit better than Barboza. No, no, no. Just on that non-telegraphic portion of it because that's what really gets you hurt. Which Barboza is very non-telegraphic.

But those taekwondo guys, they can move a little bit different. Chris Bang is another one that Woodley brought out for Wonderboy because he's got that same style. That Taekwondo style of spinning is a little bit different. I brought out three or four guys. Well, it's the guy, when you train like that, you're not throwing punches to the face,

so the kicks have to be ultra fast. There's also, I's and there's also i think there's a there's is this is some benefit to learning like kyokushin for that and taekwondo for that when they they take out those punches to the face there's something about leg dexterity those guys have crazy leg like yair rodriguez style like crazy leg dexterity yeah me and yair got to spar a couple times before this last fight. He's another one of those. He's got that same type of style. I steal a lot from those guys.

I kind of started picking it up when I fought a kid named James Mutaseri. He's very good. He was a national champion. National Taekwondo champion. A couple times, I think, for Korea, but I mean, he's just super underrated, especially his kicking. But preparing for that

fight, I had to work with a lot of Taekwondo guys, and right off the bat, I'm like, oh, this is a different style. It's like four or five different styles of kicking, I think. Theirs is like one of the better mixes of speed and power

and non-telegraphic, and I try and blend that a little bit more with Muay Thai yeah and find the best style well I feel like Muay Thai is absolutely the best but there's some shit that those Taekwondo guys can do that'll catch you off guard and if you know those other things you can do those things yeah 100% like the wheel kicks and that's what what you see with Edson yeah I mean the the Thai style has the probably the hardest kicks and that's what you see with Edson. Yeah, I mean the Thai style has probably the hardest kicks and the most technical from it but you can kind of

see some of them coming. Unless you got speed like Barboza but actually technical wise you can kind of see it coming a little bit more. I just think with the Thai style it's more effective because it's just more effective. This chopping the legs,

it's just brutally effective. And obviously in Taekwondo, there's none of that. Yeah. So those guys, if you're seeing matches where Taekwondo guys fight Muay Thai guys,

they get obliterated. Yeah, yeah, for sure. They get obliterated. For sure. Because if you allow the Muay Thai guy to kick the legs, the Taekwondo guys

just really don't know what to do. Yeah, it's game over. But once they learn it, then they have the Taekwondo too. But it's a matter of whether, like we were talking about before, if you're a wrestler, do you really learn how to strike or do you just try to take everybody down?

If the Taekwondo guys really learn how to check leg kicks, they already know how to kick. They'll be able to pick up the Thai style way quicker than the Thai guys are going to be able to do jumping wheel kicks and shit like that. That stuff is already ingrained in their wheelhouse. It's in their synapses. They know what to do. Yeah, and I think that's one of the things,

the beauties about MMA being such a young sport is, you know, you're still seeing guys evolve. And, you know, like me, I'm trying to take the best of those styles and make them great for MMA, you know, because there's certain, you know, you can't chop down a leg if a guy's trying to take you down you know but you can still chop the leg but there's certain ways that you can change that up and uh that's one of the beauties about the sport being so young is still figuring out people ask me i sat right next to uh on aerial show i

sat right next to to demetrius johnson and they asked me who's the best pound for pound fighter and you know I think people expected me to say me or something or say DJ and I honestly don't think that he's been seen yet you know I think he's still like a 16 year old kid out there somewhere that's gonna find the best

guy out there really? Yeah. Really? You don't think Demetrius is the best guy? No Demetrius I mean Demetrius does I mean he's greatrius does, I mean, he's great. He does a lot of things, but he gets away with a lot of stuff that he does because the guys that he's going against are 25 pounders. You know, they don't have a whole lot of explosive one punch power to really make you pay for some of the mistakes. You know, especially as far as like the hop switching and stuff. You know, that's why a guy like TJ can get away with a lot more at 35 i

think than a 55 pound fighter would you know tj crews a lot of those 35ers that can have that style leave an opening the consequences can be so much more devastating because they hit so much harder yeah i mean your legs are your shock absorbers you know when i get the one with the leg or the shock absorbers if your legs are in the air while you get hit by somebody that's explosive like that, you're going night-night. The only thing that's eating all the shock is your brain. I bet Dwayne Ludwig would disagree with you if you sat down and talked to him because I think the idea is to present a very complex target and to overload the brain with possibilities. I feel that. And I try and do that too.

I try and, you know, I've taken Dwayne's, a couple of Dwayne's seminars actually. He's a wizard. Yeah, yeah, he comes over to Extreme Couture and does some things. So, you know, I like his style. Shout out to Dwayne Ludwig. Yeah, no, I love Dwayne's style and it's just a different style to be had, but I feel like that's not even, it's still not the best style, you know. I don't think the best style has been, Demetriusson has a great style but i don't think it's the best

style has been seen yet especially for him but out of what you've seen he's got the best style yeah i mean everybody's different everybody's different you know what i'm saying the argument is him and john jones these are the two arguments and i feel like Jon Jones, as far as the level of talent, no question. Jon's faced Shogun, DC twice, Gustafson. I mean, Vitor Belfort. I mean, Jesus Christ. You just keep going and going and going and going. Glover Teixeira.

No, he's got the resume. But I don't know. I think George St. Pierre still. George is a little bit behind the times now a little bit. Do you think so? A little bit. Man, I don't know. After that Bisping fight, I would never say that.

Yeah, but Bisping is also from the same era, I think. I think George St. Pierre for sure, I think, is the greatest fighter. I mean, when you look at the resumes, I think is the greatest fighter that there's been. I mean, when you look at the resumes, I don't think nobody else compares really. You know, he's got two losses to bench, both those losses devastatingly, you know, came back after four years and won the title at a higher weight class. And he's never really been in too much trouble in a fight. You know, I look at his style. He's one of those guys.

He's one of the very first guys. He's really what got me into the sport because I saw his fight with BJ. I can see it. I'm like, this guy is smart. He's approaching it smart, like a

true athlete, like a true artist, like a true athlete. There are people that do it, too. You know, Demetrius does, too, but I just don't think to the level that George does. Well, again, it's the level of competition that he faced. I mean, George faced some seriously stiff competition. Not that Demetrius didn't. I mean, he fought Dominic Cruz.

He's fought some tough guys. I was really looking forward to Demetrius versus TJ. And I know they were trying to put that together. That would have been the one. It still might be the one. They might still do it. I mean, if TJ can defeat Cody, or even if he doesn't, and if he decides to go down to 25, he can make it, he says.

He says he can make it. Yeah, I think he can. And I think he can give them some real problems. Oh, it'll be the biggest fight of his life. 100% For sure. I mean, he's fast, he hits hard, he knocks guys out at 35. What the fuck is he going to do to people at 25 if his body will stay healthy with that weight cut?

And you know as good as anybody that that's very difficult to do because you just feel weaker. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's that. I know the guys that he trains down trains down in south california with um uh the training lab and that man approaches it like a scientist for real he i think he's a mathematician over at uh uc berkeley i want a genius guy i sat down with him for about we talked for maybe about five six hours it was mostly him just talking. And me just sitting there absorbing all the shit that he could tell me about, you know, exactly. I mean, he measures those guys to a T.

So if he feels like he can. Wait a minute, who's training with him? Dillashaw. And is he a strength and conditioning guy? Yeah, Sam Calvito, if I'm saying that right. Sam Calvito down at Training Lab. Brilliant, brilliant, Cal Vito, if I'm saying that right, Sam Calvito, uh, down at training lab. Okay. Uh,

brilliant, brilliant man. He's, he's, he's one of the very few guys that, that I think in MMA, especially that really, he,

he trained a lot of, uh, he trains David Taylor, a lot of the, the U S, uh, Olympic wrestling team. Uh,

he worked with those guys for a long time. Well, you've seen some mad scientists get into the game now, right? When you're realizing there's real money in it. This man is, what, 55, 56? Does those Ironmans? You know, where you got to, like,

I think it's like something crazy, like bike 120 miles, and then you swim 20 miles, and then you run a full marathon. And he's doing it like 53, 54 years old. I'm like, God. I went over and trained with him before, and it's another level of strength and conditioning.

So if he says he can get TJ down to 25, I mean, I would think he can do it. If he's confident in it, then he can do it in the right way. Well, I spoke to TJ. He was 100% confident that he could make the weight. Well, you've got to also realize DJ, Demetrius, just got shoulder surgery. Yeah. So he's still rehabbing from that, you know, and who knows how long that's going to take.

I don't know how complex the shoulder surgery was. Yeah. You know, still interested in that fight. I mean, it's a big one for Demetrius Johnson especially. You know, he needs that extra little push over. You know, I was trying to give him some tips and tricks when we was doing the media tours together for 2016. shit no not necessarily to talk shit but you know because he he's not going to be able to come out and just talk shit you know he's gonna look style it's not his style

it don't work it's you know uh but to round out his game a little bit more let's say that right i know because because and i'm gonna go back to the most well-rounded fighter you got to be able to promote too you know you got to be able to see people want to want to see you fight too right uh and that thing is a stress it's a stressor on you and you on your your training like you said you got to get up at 6 a.m because when you do it you get more media requests so you get you get to have those interviews more. And that's a stress. And it's something that you, Baron, and your opponent don't necessarily have to. You know, a guy like Conor does a lot more media than his opponent do.

Of course. It's a bigger stress. And, you know, if you can handle all those stresses and still go out there and compete, then if you shy away from that, I got to take that away from you as far as being the best power fighter, you know what I mean? That's interesting. But if it's not Demetrius, then who the fuck is it other than George? And George isn't really fighting. Then it's Jon Jones. It's for sure Jon Jones.

I think George is – Jon's not really fighting right now either. Oh, you're saying right now in the sport? It's hard because Jon – It's up there. I don't think Jon took PEDs. People give me a hard time about that. I don't think he did.

I think he took something tainted just based on what USADA has said about the levels pre- and post-test. I think he fucked up and took something. Fuck that money up, man. Oh, man. I was rooting for him, too. Fuck that money. But he can still come back. And be much bigger.

Like I said, controversy. Especially when you're black in America, controversy is one of the best things that can happen to you, really. Well, John, when he's loose, when him and Daniel were in that press conference and Daniel was talking shit, he goes, I beat you after I did cocaine. When John's just himself, I mean, he's huge.

He's going to be the biggest. He could have already been the biggest star if he had just been himself from the beginning. If they don't really suspend him for very long and he comes back within a few months, it's entirely possible that he could come back and be the biggest still of all time. I think he's going to be way bigger, especially after. Like I said, controversy is a great one when you're black in America. It really is. Well, it's not just that.

It's like for John, how how much more focus will the – I mean, my fear is that he's going to somehow or another sabotage again. And that this is not just – that these lessons aren't sinking in. Because there's been so many of them. The car accident where they know broke the lady's arm and she's pregnant he runs away and then the slamming the car into the tree there was so many and then there's you know the first test positive and then the second test positive like fuck the brawl at the press conference fuck it's like there's so many things i think that goes back to you know not being delusional and having the right team around you and somebody that you really listen to. That's it. That you really truly listen to.

You know, not just somebody that you just kind of, all right, yeah, I hear you. Because it's easy to get that way. It really is. I'm sure. Like, and I've approached it a couple of times. You know, you get that, especially when you got that confidence in the thing that made you great in the first place it can be like a hindrance to you too you know and i think a lot of it has been or at least a lot of my growth in the past couple months has been me getting in my own head and understanding it and and kind of breaking it down

uh you know smoking weed helps i ain't gonna lie to you I ain't gonna lie to you thank god it's legal now I didn't start until after my loss to Leonardo first time that I did but honestly it was probably the best thing because I was angry at the fight

I was angry at everything I was like fuck how can I I was like a 10 to 1 favorite going into that fight that was the one fight with that i never saw him i was like i'm going to smoke him uh so i just had this anger and the only way i saw my dad kind of did what it was was alcohol so i kind of turned to that and you know that it's no good it's really it's the worst way to do it worst way to do it it just makes the delusions bigger you know what i'm saying it just makes you angrier and it just it just kind of compounded everything but honestly like when i spoke we it was like because at that point it's like you know what

i had tuned it out for so long because that's what folks did that i kind of associated with being lazy and not successful and you know these, these fucking, you know, you know, I don't want to be these niggas on a corner. Right. Right. Like, uh, but when I did,

it, it kind of opened up the anger towards myself. You know what I mean? It kind of opened up my mind for the first time. And, and, and I think that actually did have a lot of help with it. And,

you know, I don't, I don't like chronic or nothing, but you know, I know what you're saying. I think that's what people are afraid of with it. You know, I don't like chronic or nothing, but you know. I know what you're saying. I think that's what people are afraid of with it too is that paranoia.

I always say paranoia is just you looking at things realistically. Yeah. And even the possibilities of things happening realistically. I mean, some people,

for sure, if they have tendencies to be schizophrenic in particular and then they smoke a lot of weed, it could spiral them. Oh yeah.

Like anything else. Smoking too much of anything is not a good idea. Doing too much of any one thing is not a good idea. I agree. I mean, weed's the same way. I agree. You have to be able to balance. You know what I mean?

You can't just fucking sit on the couch all day. But I'm glad that you're saying that there's a real benefit to it, too. There's a benefit to it mentally in exposing that vulnerability and just making you aware of who you really are like maybe to other people yeah we all especially men i think we puff our chests up and we like to look at ourselves as uh maybe better than we really are because it's it's it's like a shield that you're like a false confident shield that you put up to protect yourself from your vulnerability but marijuana says no no fuck that why don't you just look at whatever the fuck you're vulnerable and stop doing that stupid like this is this is your problem this is what you're

scared of you're like shit the weed's right yeah it can help you yeah and it kind of like i said especially after that fight i remember it that really made me that really helped me to get over and not just get over it but to understand it and and understand what i was doing uh because again you just don't you know you get that them hormones maybe it's testosterone you get that fucking yeah pumping you just don't you know you don't give a fuck that's part of it for sure you know it's just it's also think about what you're doing for a living man it's the most one of the most risky propositions you could do as a human being outside of war that that too that too and i and i took that into you know you you obviously you take that into consideration when you when you start doing something like this yeah uh i'd taken

into consideration every fight um you know one slight one slip up you could be you know bad news sure one injury could take you out forever you know especially when you you was and when i was in my situation even when i was signing with the ufc it was like okay do i go and try and be a doctor and you know or you know i was i was going into biomed so i was like i was really that seemed more secure you know what i mean that seemed more like obtainable easier secure you know what i mean that seemed more like attainable easier or do i like like throw caution to the wind and you know at the time when i was 18 or 19 uh no i guess i'm yeah 19 uh you know that was like a hard you know what i'm saying but one of those ones that was hard for me to make but it turned out well i guess well it's you you're going to have more than one interest, too.

That's also part of the problem. There's probably a lot of people out there that like doing different things, and you might be leaning more towards one than the other, and you just got to kind of soul search. And nobody can answer that other than you. That's why it's terrible when people tell people what to do, when people tell people what you need to do is get a good job or you need to, you know, go with something that's going to be saved. Go with what's attainable.

Go with that. You know, like, man, that's not right. Everybody's different. 100%. I think that's the, that's, I mean, to go back just to Rob, that's what he did so well. He didn't, he didn't tell me what to do. He just showed me the truth kind of you know i mean he just he was that voice in my it was like the conscious and i mean and your show too like you

do a good you do a great job of it uh and i mean i know you've heard it before like but you just are very truthful in what you say and instead of being like preachy because nobody listens to fucking preachy you know i mean preachy is usually well i mean i try not to be but sometimes it comes off maybe sound preachy if you don't know me but it's just honest yeah and that you know there's what you say about robert one of the most important things about it is that he shows you he's just showing you and you could trust him you know those those two things are very important. Someone who just show you things, show you what's wrong and that you can trust.

He's not bullshitting you. As soon as you think that someone is bullshitting you or bullshitting themselves or being delusional, you're like, fuck man, I can't. Because they might have good information about other things. That's a real problem. When someone's an idiot, but also a genius, that exists. There's people out there and those people, that's a real problem when someone's an idiot but also a genius. That exists. There's people out there. And those people, that's a fucking puzzle.

You got to go, okay, how much of this dude, what he's saying is stupid? How much of what he's saying is genius? And sometimes it's a weird mixture. Yeah, and I think that's one of the things that I'm learning, especially as I'm kind of going forward. Because you get to meet so many people, and so many people want to be your friend. All of a sudden, there's so many people. Everybody's got they want to tell you how to do your job like everybody want to tell me how to fight and everybody want to tell me like what to do and

how to do that exhausting but some people really know what they're talking about actually though so you have to be able to to you know i think you got to find that your little bullshit meter in there and and kind of pick it apart. For me, Rob was that. But the shit that he still says is, you know. I mean, you could get information on how to fight from your yoga instructor. She could say something to you. And that one thing would just sit in your head. Yeah, 100%.

Oh. Yeah, I had a girl named Yuko, a little Japanese girl that was giving me privates in yoga. But the way she broke it down was like anatomy almost. She knew the exact, you know, position that I was here instead of being here where I was losing my balance or I was losing some of my power or it was putting more strain on one area than the other and making it harder. And I'm just like, this translates so well. and making it harder. And I'm just like, this translates so well.

Even when I do ballet, it's like I can see when I'm off balance, when I'm, as one of the things in ballet is as you're spinning, keep your eyes on there so you don't get dizzy. So even when Barbosa kicked me, I just made sure. I saw four of them, but I'm like, let me keep my eyes on this motherfucker. He's like, stay on of it. But it all translates because it's all the human body. It's all the same thing.

It's just different ways of expressing the way your body moves and what it does. But it's the same shit. It's only one. It's like a giant computer. And I would think that learning all these different ways to move would just enhance your overall understanding of how your body works. Yeah, yeah. And it makes you, I think it makes you more in tune with it, too, you know, to make it healthy. That's one of the biggest keys.

I think it's just being as healthy as possible and not, you know, tampering with that too much. For sure. And also flexibility. I think having flexibility is so important for a fighter. You know, being able to move your body. Like, there's some people that just aren't flexible. They just can't move in certain ways. And, you know, I can tell from watching you throw head kicks in that fight. Like, you're flexible.

Yeah. Like, you don't have a lot of tension in your legs when you're doing that. Yeah. I think tension is that, is like the perfect word for it, really, because that's what causes you to tighten, too. Yeah, like when a guy's, it's difficult for him to throw a body kick and you see him kind of like leaning and you see that struck i love dan henderson big fan that dude looks like he can't even touch his toes yeah you know what i mean like when he threw a head kick in the hector lombard

fight i was like holy shit but it's the way threw it. It's like his whole body has to like cock sideways. It takes a lot of energy. You know, whereas some people throw head kicks and you don't even see it coming. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and also in grappling too. You know, you have to be able to have strength, I think, in every direction. That's one of the biggest reasons why I don't lift weights is because you get so used to it in that one uniform direction. That's interesting. But you have to be able to move.

I have to be just as strong here as I am here, as I am there. So do you get all your resistance from just grappling or from these calisthenics and plyometrics and different things? Grappling a lot. I just pick guys up and put them down. That's real. That's a lot of body weight too. That's 100% exercise. That's a lot of body weight too.

That's 100% exercise. Now, did they concentrate on specific core exercises? Or do you have days where you concentrate on just using your legs? Yeah, different days depending. We do do a lot of core stuff, especially recently. Probably like the last year or so we've been doing a lot more with the core. Legs is a huge one. You know, your legs carry you. Sure. Pretty much the whole way. Do you run hills? Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

I live in Henderson, so it's like, you know, right. A lot of hills. Uh, but, um, the legs is one of the biggest, just even my movement, like the way you move to, uh, a lot of times I'll notice I'll, I'll be too, you know, up on my, the balls on my feet, or I'll be too flat on the balls on my feet or I'll be too flat on my heels. So I think that came from wrestling a little bit. The stances are different. But it's just rounding out me as an individual is going to round out me as a fighter, which is just going to make it bigger and better. Do you watch fights outside of MMA?

Do you watch kickboxing? 100%. What do you like to watch? Love them. I mean, I watch a lot of the big boxing fights especially. I barely, I only got to see like little clips and pieces of the Broner. I was paying more attention to his arguments with that rapper kid, that 6ix9ine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jamie and I were going back and forth.

What the fuck is wrong with Adrian Broden that he's entertaining this? The week of the fight, talking shit on Instagram. I think they were just doing their thing, making media. I think it was bullshit because he came out to 6ix9ine's song and then 6ix9ine kind of like shouted it out for him. Adrian Broaner came out to 6ix9ine's song? Yeah, he came out to the song during the fight. I haven't seen the video yet.

I got to go back and listen. Yeah, go on 6ix9ine's Instagram. He posted it up. That is hilarious. So 6ix9ine changed his tune. Now he likes Broaner? I mean, look at it. He was shouting, go Broaner.ine's Instagram. He posted it up. That is hilarious. So 6ix9ine changed his tune and now he likes Broner? I mean, look at it. He was showing go Broner.

That's actually a smart move for Broner. I mean, they did their thing. That's a smart move, man. He actually, you know, Broner's a, he, I mean, he did his thing

in that fight too. He outworked Jesse Vargas. That's hard to do. I heard he beat the hell out of him after eight rounds. He beat the hell out of him for the last four. I have to watch it. I gotta watch it at home. I wanted to watch your fight

and Frankie's fight and David Branch, man. Knocking out Tiago Santos like that. Holy shit. Branch is tough. He's a bad motherfucker, dude. People sleep on Branch because he lost to Luke Rockhold. Luke Rockhold is a fucking beast. Especially on top.

His top game is brutal. He got Weidman down on the ground. By the way, Luke Rockhold when he fought Weidman had staff. He was going through his fucking antibiotics. He was two weeks out. He's in serious fucking IV antibiotics, the whole deal. He was

really hurting. Man, and that's no joke. after that fight with tony i was out for six weeks i couldn't do anything i was i got staffed twice but i got it once and they caught it real early when i got it the second time i the second time barely even affected me because it caught it so early but the first time i got it i got on the heavy medication and man i was like dizzy yeah and i wasn't even training i stopped training after i got on the heavy medication and man i was like dizzy yeah and i wasn't even training i stopped training after i i got on the medication i just just hung around yeah and i was just like jesus the first couple of days on the medication i'm dizzy i'm like i feel terrible it

destroys your body i mean especially when you talk to i mean you talk so many microbiologists that tell you what it does to the the gut flora i didn't know back then either i got it back in like 2002 what the fuck y'all know no shit about gut flora back then i literally didn't know what it was so i just took the medication just ate what i always ate right took some vitamins like i always did and that was it but i was like wow i'm like lightheaded yeah yeah no it's no it's no joke no joke. The body and it's... That shit scares the fuck out of me. MRSA and staff and those fucking infections,

they scare the shit out of me, man. Yeah, anything from within you, it's kind of scary. It's just those fucking little monsters just want to take over your body and eat it. That's what it is. There's more of them than there are of us. I mean, there's more bacteria in your body than there are human cells.

Yeah, I mean, it's crazy to think about. Yeah. But it just, it's all about balance. You know what I mean? Are you careful with your diet? Like, do you take in a lot of probiotics? Yeah, yeah. No, especially when I'm in camp, very, very careful.

What do you eat? Outside of, recently I've been going a lot more uh keto a little bit you know i still eat carbs obviously because i have to for to have that explosion still i feel like i just think you do i think you have to eat more carbs and you probably still stay ketogenic i think that when people look at carbs and they say like you know only have 25 to 50 grams of carbs during the day like that's great if you're not doing two a days and fucking wrestling and running hills and shit. Your body probably needs more carbohydrates than that. Yeah, definitely.

That's kind of where I try and supplement it, especially before I try and eat more carbs. Then I kind of cut them back towards the end of the days. What are you eating? A lot of chickens because I can't eat fish or shellfish, so a lot of chicken. Are you allergic to it? Yeah, allergic. Yeah, completely. Oh, really?

Yeah. Wow. Are you allergic to lobster? Yeah. Shit. I mean, I just convinced myself it tastes like shit anyway. Oh, but it doesn't. I mean, I can look at it.

Lobster with melted butter. Ooh. Tastes like melted butter, huh? Oh, it's so good. Lobster with melted butter. Tastes like melted butter, huh? Oh, it's so good. Lobster with melted butter. I'll just eat the melted butter on some grass-fed steak. Well, that's pretty fucking good, too. I love to cook, too.

Do you? I love to cook. I mean, I think there's a real art to cooking, too. That could probably be me in another life. A chef? You were saying that. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, 100%.

There's an art to it, right%. Yeah, 100%. I could definitely. It's a heart to it, right? Yeah, I would love to. Yeah. Eventually, maybe. We'll see. I cook a lot. I love cooking.

It makes me feel good, man. I like knowing that I prepared a meal, put it together. It's a nice thing, especially if it's healthy. And especially when you, you know, I don't get people that are, I mean, I don't want to say I don't get vegans. I mean I don't want to say I don't get vegans like I have a lot of friends that are vegan and you know I never

kind of doubt but the fact that they don't want to eat meat for there's certain people like my brother tried to do this too he's like he don't want to eat meat because he's like afraid of the animal you know or feel bad for the animal itself it's just like you said it we've got more

not us cells than we do us cells yeah like we're all the same shit you know i mean even the even the animals like we are the same so i mean they're the same as the plants too i don't want animal cruelty i mean i think of course that's what most the the most noble aspects of becoming a vegan is to avoid animal cruelty and factory farming. And I think that in that way, I agree with them. The real problem with vegans is that there's a certain percentage of them that are just fucking idiots. And it's just a certain percentage of any group of people. It's not most vegans. Most vegans are kind people.

It's a certain percentage of them that are using being a vegan as an excuse to be a fucking asshole. And that's what it is. And they just, they have this thing. And most of them use vegan in their screen name. They always have like. Veganism. Yeah. Vegans are part of their identity.

And then they attack people who aren't vegans. There's a few people that I follow that I literally go to their Twitter page and just watch them attack people who aren't vegans. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy to watch. It's just like, that's all they do. And like you said, that's why I don't want to say, like, I don't understand vegans, because that's just people in general. You're going to get that in any walk.

People are going to be fucking idiots. It's almost like when I've said that veganism is sort of a religion, it's an ideology in the sense of the way some people practice it, that they want to go after. There's some people that are Catholic that hate Protestants, right? So they think the Protestants are the enemy. And this is just, I mean, this is obviously something that went on for a long time in human history. But I think it's just groups of people get real tribal. And then, you know, the fucking Yankees hate the red sox and this is just how it goes and these people just decide that you're on the other team so fuck you and no one can see any middle ground yeah you know there's this guy from this restaurant uh antler from toronto okay i had

on last week and these people are protesting his restaurant these vegans i've seen that yeah and then they want him to put a sign in the window saying something like no animals should die so that we live and it's not our right to take their lives. They protest every week until he does this. He's not going to do that. What the fuck are you doing? What is this?

There's a battle. There's an ideological battle going on. It's not a well examined objective thing in my opinion. Yeah, but it's so natural, though. Like you said, it's almost like communities. Mm-hmm. You know, it's, you have your thoughts, I've got my thoughts, and we are part of two separate communities. Right.

And it's just like with anything else. we are part of two separate communities right and it's just like with anything else i think that integration between the two and that balance is like the most key to everybody really it kind of will grow everybody you know the the the bounty hunters can learn something from the vegans just as much as the vegans can learn from the bounty hunters you know what i'm saying oh i think so too you know and i think that really the problem is when people don't want to hear the other side and they want to shout people down. They don't they're not willing to listen. And there's there's common ground across the board. And some of it probably is just learned, I think, a lot about like how you grew up.

And I think it's important to, like, understand that. Like I said, just to go back to my childhood is just that's the way I grew up and that's what I understood. But when i look at like my dad you know like my my dad didn't have his dad so and he was out the house by 15 right you know he and i try and put myself there sometimes being a 15 year old kid that didn't have a place to go like what are you gonna do and the only people you see around you is drug dealers and and on us so like a lot of it i give credit to him for sticking around for me because i would have no i've hit people over time to hit right right you know you know what i mean uh and that's why people do it because those people that are doing that are just like you and me everybody's

100 we're all just human beings and we vary genetically and we vary but we vary more by our environment how much love we get yeah yeah that that's a that's a big part of it is like it's just the culture yeah it's it's just you know and and i think it stems from one culture being separated from others and not having that integration yeah then you get that like even more of a disconnect and then once you get that even more of a disconnect. And then once you get even bigger, then it's all downhill. And you get more insecurity, which leads to more tribalism. The whole thing is just so disappointing that people still operate like this.

But I think people are opening up to that more now than before. I just think it's a slow process. Yeah, slowly but surely. Slowly but surely. We're still working at it. Yeah, I mean, look at what we were talking before about the the rosa parks picture out there that was not long ago man no no it wasn't long ago no it really wasn't and and and that'd be the thing with certain there's certain white people too that just be like all right just get over it

already and it's like come on like they didn't have to get over it exactly that's what it is you don't understand it yeah and you don't you truly don't understand uh and you don't even like take the time to try and understand well they're tribal too they talk to other people that say the same shit and like yeah well and they'll just start rattling off statistics about the instances of crime in the black community and how the asians don't do this but the blacks do. It's like, it's fucking cultural. If you don't think it's cultural, you haven't been around enough people. And it does not go back a lot of generations. Like you said, Rosa Parks was not very long ago.

My dad didn't have his dad. He didn't have that person to teach him what not to do and what to do. That's a hard road, especially for a young. Like you go back earlier, young guys get delusional real quick. You know, they feel invincible. They feel like, oh, I can do this and I'm never going to get caught. You don't have that voice of reason to tell you right from wrong when you that kind of age. And it's because he didn't have his dad and then why didn't have his dad?

Because he didn't have his dad. You know what I mean? And that only goes back two, three generations. Well, what's crazy is you're talking about 1865 is when slavery was abolished. So we're talking about a small amount of time in human history where there haven't been slaves. So all your isolation when you felt as a kid, when you felt separate from the people that were in the miles that were higher than yours. Think about that times a hundred. Yeah.

As if you were a slave. Yeah. Maybe a million. An insurmountable gap between a slave that has no chance of ever not being a slave and someone who can go to school wherever they want and travel abroad and do whatever the fuck they want. And then the idea that some of these white people think that these people should just get over it. The amount of time is so fucking short. You're talking about... We just had Black Panther over it. The amount of time is so fucking short. You're talking about-

We just had Black Panther. Yeah. The life- We just had Black Panther. At least it beat Avatar. It's beaten everything so far. Isn't it like one of the number one biggest movies of all time? Oh, it's stupid.

That should help. Believe it or not. I really think things like that will help. It was a beautiful movie, and it was a beautiful movie to describe even like when you say 1865. I feel like we're so disconnected from even that. And this is – I've talked to a lot of people about this, the difference between being called a black American and an African American. I hate being called an African American.

That's what everybody says. I know. What bothers it? To me, it makes you seem – because you put me and Francis next to each other. african-american i just that's what everybody says i know it's just what bothers it to me it it makes you seem because you put me and francis next to each other francis is an african-american you know what i mean i see what you're saying he's he's from africa he has ties to africa you know who else is an african-american elon musk yeah i mean yeah really when you're real but i think even more now it kind of like, just why can't we be?

Black comes in so many different shades. Yeah. You know what I mean? As does African, obviously. Yeah. So maybe black American is a better way to put it. But Africans have ties to Africa. You know what I'm saying?

Right. Where it's not slavery. I feel we should have our ties in America. Like I should be proud to just be an American, not be called an African American, be called, you know, well, it's with every generation.

I mean, it's, it's going to take a long time before we just abandon all this nonsense and just treat people based on who they are as a human being. But my grandparents came from Italy and they were treated like dog shit. I mean, my grandfather always talked about the racism that he encountered when he came over from Italy to America.

They didn't think of Italians as white people. Now they think of Italians as white people. 100%. And Mexicans are experiencing that. If you're from Spain, you're basically white. Nobody thinks of a guy from Spain as being like – you don't think of them the same way you think of Mexicans. Right, right, right, yeah. But one day, all that shit will go away.

One day we'll get past this, whether it's, who knows how many generations it'll take, but I think it's changing now because of the internet. I think there's definitely like more hate groups that consolidate and they get together and they live in an echo chamber online, They talk and they agree with each other. You see it on Twitter and Twitter's trying to stop that and maybe that's misguided because maybe it strengthens it. But I think that ultimately this ability to exchange information is going to allow more and more people to compare notes and understand that there's no benefit to describe or to thinking of people as being inferior or superior

or better or worse. We're just all different. Yeah. But we're all human. We're all just human. We're all the same. I mean, and really you see that when you see people, you know? Yeah.

You can really see somebody. When you really know them. You really see them. Yeah. Like, yeah, we're literally all the same. But all different too because that's one of the beautiful things is that you you see these little different aspects of individuals personalities but to lump people in a group oh you know you're a chinese guy i know what the fuck you are you're

this oh you're an african guy i don't know what the fuck you are you're this no that's nonsense there's a broad spectrum in each and every classification. But at the end of the day, we're all the same thing because we're all just people. Yeah, 100%. I mean, it's just when you talk about having pride in it, I feel like it helps a little bit more if I identify as a black American instead of an African American. I see what you're saying. You know what I mean? I feel like it's a little more, you know just look different you know what i mean like i'm more integrated and it would give me more pride to be that you know what i'm saying

and and i think that's still you we're obviously all the same and there needs to be integration but you still have to have some type of identity you You know what I'm saying? I know what you're saying. Yeah. I mean. And I think that the movie in itself did a good job. I just went back to Black Panther. I think it did a great job in describing the differences between the black community and the African community. You know what I mean?

Or Africa itself. And because you get that like anger you know what i mean like that's like the the stereotype is like the black angry black man right but some of it stems from not knowing where you're from and not having that core identity and i feel like we can just do that again here in America as black Americans instead of I hope what it represents is it's a meter to register

that racism is dying and that this is also people and there's a lot of like white people that really going way out of their way to go see it because they wanted to show everybody that they're not racist but I think that's good too I think ultimately it's showing that this is something that people

recognize as a stupid problem and we should get past it it took goddamn long enough it's not done i mean we're probably going to be telling this to our grandchildren yeah 100 and they're still going to be experiencing some of it and then there's going to be something new comes out and you're like god damn we just now doing this like you know that's the way they're still going to be experiencing some of it. And then there's going to be something new that comes out. And then you're like, God damn it, we just now doing this? Like, you know, that's the way it's just going to be. But for me personally, you know, it's just because everybody, every kid wants to be a superhero. Like, I want to do it, you know. Right.

There wasn't a whole lot of them. You could be half vampire and be Blade. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, but Blade was like a hit man. You know what I mean? It goes back to what you see around me. If I only see the drug dealers and every...

There was never a black superhero. And I was like, all right, well, shit, all right. We can hang up there. And it portrayed us as scientists. If you're one of those white get over it guys, that doesn't register for you because they're all white. Every fucking superhero. Batman, Spider-Man.

Even the Hulk is white at first. Yeah. And I get it from a lot of, I mean, it's just culture. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it's not better or worse than one thing or another. You know, there's Hawaiian culture. There's, you know, it's just culture.

Yeah. culture there's there's yeah you know so it's just culture yeah and it just that needs to be celebrated too because the more you celebrate culture the more you can integrate between all of them right and then there's the real problem with i don't want those cultures to go away yeah you know i was in uh chinatown in boston this weekend we went and ate dinner at two o'clock in the morning this chinese restaurant it's chinatown right jamie that place was chinatown they got like fucking uh alaskan king crabs and a fish tank like how the fuck did you even get that here it's still alive all these fish on top of each other and they pull the fish out of the tank and cook it up for you

i mean it's like they barely speak english i mean this is their culture and i want that to still exist too you know i mean i just want them to be accepted. 100%. I mean, and that's the beauty about it. And I think you need to keep that alive. You know, there's two different spectrums to it.

There's the, there's the, the person that's just like, Oh, just go ahead and get over it. And there is a person just like, okay, what you don't even have,

like, they don't want even like, uh, like I did it or, uh, acknowledge your culture. You know what I mean? They just want to like, just shun it or just not, you know what I mean they just want to like just shun it

or just not you know just put it in the closet somewhere and you know that that's almost the it's the opposite but it's just as bad I was talking to a buddy of mine who lives on the big island about that he's a white guy and he lives in Hawaii and he grew up in Hawaii and I said did you

experience a lot of racism against white people he's like no because I'm not a fucking asshole and I said that's what it is right he's like yeah man he goes you can't be a white guy coming over here trying to push your uh you know mainland culture it's like this is the fucking culture dude he goes if you just accept the culture the way it is out here he goes they're not racist they take you you're gonna run into a few but for the most part you're gonna run into a few everywhere you go because people are – but, like, go back to it. Like, people are fucking idiots in every walks of it.

But for the most part, as long as you're not an asshole, you're good. Right. I mean, it's the same way across the board, and I've kind of realized that as I'm getting older because before I just thought, you know, we's just what we are. You know what I mean? I've got family members that only will ever see Detroit. They will only ever see those same blocks.

They will only ever see the same people. And that's just what you think it is. And it's just like, no, it's so much more. No, there's so much more. So much more. And it's not that different. Like you think it's different. It's different, but you know what I'm saying?

It's not alien. It's just different. It's just different. It's not alien. It's just different. It's just different. It's not better. It's not worse. One of the things that I really enjoyed about traveling so much with the UFC is you got to see all these different cultures, and you got to see all these different styles of life that these people live in. And you kind of put it all together, and it just gives you – I think it's one of the best things about traveling

is that it gives you this more rounded perspective. Like if you lived in Italy, you'd be like one of these people. This is how they live. They live like this. You know, if you lived in Dublin, you'd be like this. This is their style of living. Yeah, and it's important to acknowledge, I think, all those different styles, too, you know, of living. all those different styles too, you know, of living.

And I think if you really want to like cure racism in America and all that, it's just being open about it and just talking and, you know, people understanding other people's upbringings and what they went through and what they do, because that makes you understand it more. If you try and just shun it away or just say, if you even bring up the word black or white or anything, then like people get, you know, you kind of see it.

Sometimes people get tense and it's just like, just, just, just be honest about it and just be open about it. And that will make it go away. It's not, it's not, you know,

shun it and it'll go away. People don't want to be uncomfortable. They don't want to talk about uncomfortable shit. So if something comes up, that's a, well, you know, as a black man,

like, Oh, here we go. Here we go. I didn't do't do it okay i never had a slave okay you know and you're like oh all right man you're just super uncomfortable with being uncomfortable yeah it's like what for like you i think that makes you the more the asshole there you know if you're talking to a human being if you really want to have a conversation with them you want to know their actual experience yeah you know and if their experience is as a puerto rican that came from puerto rico that feels disky a lot of puerto ricans feel super disconnected with the united states because

they're not really united states citizens but they are yeah it's like a weird thing it's kind of like it's not really a state yeah but it's it's sort of protected by the united states and so they're disconnected and there's a like on the east coast growing up with Puerto Ricans, there's a weird, they have a weird alienation, you know, and that's a, if you don't want to talk to them and you don't want to hear about that from them, that's fine. But you're just going to miss out on that part of what life is for them. You're never going to get it. Yeah.

And all the things that they bring to it and, you know, the food that they bring, the different arts, you know what I mean? The different styles of fighting that they bring the the different arts you know what i mean the different styles of fighting that they bring the different dances like everything about the culture you're gonna miss if you try and just you know shy away from it mixed martial arts is a perfect example of like all these different cultures coming together everything in this one boiling pot you know yeah i mean and that's i mean again that's one of the most beautiful things about it it's just i can go over to to ireland and fight a russian in ireland and you know it's it's different than going down to brazil and fighting the brazilian you know or something like that it's just sure but it's at the core of it it's still it's fighting there's just different styles of

of being able to do it but everybody does it what's crazy to me is how when you go to these other places like Brazil or Ireland or something like that, how rabid they are for their local people. This is crazy. When you're fighting someone who's Brazilian in Brazil, I mean, maybe it's relaxed a little bit now, but I was there for some of the earlier UFCs there. This is wild.

This is wild. And I made the mistake of flipping off the crowd at the weigh-ins. Because, look. Who are you fighting down there? Francisco Trinaldo. I fought him. Yeah. and I made the mistake of flipping off the crowd at the weigh-ins because look Francisco Trinaldo I fought him, yeah three time Brazilian kickboxing champion monstrous, that was when

at the height of his, he was on a seven fight win streak he was feeling good, he was kind of at his last run too he was in tough at a 185 pound too big hit hit like a truck too kind of had his last run, too. He was in tough at a 185 pound, too. Big hit, yeah. He's a big 55er. Hit like a truck, too. But before the weigh-ins, they screaming, you're going to die.

And I'm like, all right. I'm a shit talker, so you talk that shit to me. I'm giving it back to you. Look, I'm loving it. Look at Dewey, too. I'm loving it. But, I mean, they were rabid for that when people were throwing stuff at me as i was walking out uh i kind of just threw my headphones in and just uh

went to town but yeah they got a lot of pride in brazil yeah they love it but but a lot around the world a lot of the the because i think they truly appreciate the art of what they do and it is a representation of the culture there you know for sure with jiu-jitsu for sure for sure when they when they get somebody that's damian maya you know they're gonna stand behind that man because he represents the art of it or just mma in general like they they appreciate the art of it russians appreciate the art of what they do you know the sambo and you know it's so deep-rooted in their culture. And Americans do, too.

I mean, for the most part, it's just, we don't get as behind our own fighters, I think. I think, yeah, we have a certain amount of loyalty, but we're so, this is such a goddamn ambitious country. We love winning. You gotta win. Get some money, and then win. Get some money, shine, get some money shine talk some shit

and win like that's it well listen man you're doing all those things right now look I'm trying to slowly but surely you know

I think this is a good conversation too because I think people understand you more now yeah get a better sense of who you are I got a couple

deeper you know I got a couple layers to me you do you do thank you Kevin I really appreciate it man

I really enjoyed this conversation. Oh, for sure. All right. That's it, fuckers. See ya. See ya. See ya. See ya.

See ya. See ya. See ya. See ya. See ya. See ya. See ya. See ya.

See ya. See ya. See ya. See ya. See ya. See ya. See ya.