The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #34 with Josh Barnett

Episode Date: July 9, 2018

Joe sits down with heavyweight fighter Josh Barnett.

Boom, ladies and gentlemen, Josh Barnett, youngest ever UFC heavyweight champion, now retired? Sort of? Semi? No, not retired, just I'm free in the wind. I'm like a bald eagle. I'm just out there. Sorry.

Riding on that freedom. That's America. freedom. Just America. Just I decided to leave the fold of the UFC and chase my my own futures by my own hands. Are you actively competing or going to be actively competing? There'll be some grappling stuff this year but I'm figuring by the start of next year, I'll get back into the MMA circuits, mainly because it's just going to take some time to set up camps, managers, the structure of everything. Right. I have proper sparring partners and all that. And in the meantime, we were talking about you're doing commentary for New Japan Pro Wrestling with Jim Ross, and you do it on AXS TV, right? That's right, every Friday night at 8.

You can see me sit down and run my mouth about wrestling. Yeah. But we just did the live show up at the Cow Palace in San Francisco, which they've been having sporadic wrestling events there, but it was a big draw in that building in, like, the 60s and 70s, I guess. So it's a bit of a historical. It feels like pro wrestling is making a renaissance it's like making a return yeah I think that um there's a certain audience of a of a certain age

gap that our age group that has come into flourishing and into the internet and other ways to which to to go ahead and and bring wrestling back up there and show that wrestling, whether it's the biggest company like the WWE, all the way to say, you know, number two would be New Japan. And then there's all these independent companies all over the place that some of them have quite a decent following as well.

You know, Billy Corgan from the Smashing Pumpkins? Huge wrestling fan. He owns, what is the company that he owns? The NWA, the National Wrestling Alliance. Yeah. So he owns- It'sWA, the National Wrestling Alliance. It's hard. NWA is NWA the rap group.

It's that too. You mean, that's what I hear. When I hear NWA. I'm sure there's some attitude involved with the wrestling NWA. I can't speak about the rest of it. But NWA was, is, I guess still. It's a legendary sanctioning body. And so it wasn't any one particular company, but it was a sanctioning body that would then oversee certain titles. And so if you're going to be

on this show at this time, you're going to defend the NWA championship, the NWA commission would get involved, and they had their specifications as to how the title matches would be run and whether or not you could lose by disqualification or not or if you know you could go over the top rope would be a dq and little stuff like that who did killer kowalski wrestle for killer kowalski i couldn't tell you do you remember him i know the name but i don't really i mean he was a famous famous trainer after the fact. Oh, was he? Yeah.

When I was in high school, probably the guy, it was an NWA. I was, that's right. Do we talk about that with Billy? I think we did. He was like local cable when I was in high school. It was like,

he had like a claw. He would like grab his own wrist and grab your head or some shit. Like, like, uh, guy. Ritzvon, Eric, look at his hand. He shit. Yeah, the iron claw. Like a fucking guy. Ritzvon Eric. Yeah, look at his hand.

He's got his hand up the claw. It's like there's some nostalgia to it. That's one of the reasons why I feel like it's coming back. It's like people who liked it as a kid are now as adults going back to it as nostalgia. Not with the internet. It's much easier to go out there and put product out. So it makes it more easily disseminated

to any audience who might want to see it. Especially with shows that are abroad. There are some shows that will go on in Germany and Austria that will get streamed and people get a hold of them. They get to watch them. So it's not like the tape trading days of yesteryear.

Does Jim Ross hook you up with his barbecue sauce? Apparently he's got some fucking killer barbecue sauce. He's got sauce. He's got rubs. He's got all kinds of, a whole menagerie of all your meat fixings. Is he a pit master? Is he one of those dudes? Does he do the whole thing with the wood and have a real smoker?

Hickory chips. Yeah. And then he's got his white oak on the side. Oh, one of them guys. Maybe. Maybe. At least in my mind. Yeah.

Yeah, there's like two types of people that use that barbecue. There's people like me that use pellet grills, which is infallible. I use one of those Traegers. Sure. It's easy. You pour the pellets in. It does all the work for you. But then there's those serious motherfuckers you chop wood and dry it out yeah they've got the coleman's there are those old or the uh the ones that start with a w uh the

weber grills that there's just nothing to it other than oh those kettle grills yeah those are for amateurs bro the real serious dudes they, they get those side smokers. Oh, sure. So you have like the main chamber and then you got a little wood box on the side where the wood's heating up and then the air goes through and it smokes from this. That's those people that cook at like 225. They never let anything get hot. Dude, I throw stuff over gas flames. That's what I do.

You one of those guys? I'm a over gas flames. That's what I do. You're one of those guys? I'm a Luddite. I have no business having any voice in the realm of barbecuing. But it seems like something you'd be interested in. Oh, I love it. You're a man who's into all things manly. This is true. And I like setting stuff on fire and then eating it. Do you still drive a manual transmission all around Los Angeles?

I just drove one today. Fuck yeah. Like a man. I just, I've been driving around. And I just, uh, I've been driving around. I just got it out of the shop a little while ago. My, I have a 75 formula, uh, Firebird, but instead of doing the LS swap, which everybody does, and I understand why, uh, it's got a four 55 Pontiac in it that we board. I had a board 60 out. Uh, it's got forged pistons. Uh, I didn't go with forged rods.

I didn't need it, I think, because, well, no, actually, I did put forged rods in it, forged pistons, but iron heads, dual quads. What are you looking at? You know, I don't know. The goal was to just make maybe one horsepower per cubic inch but have well over 500 pound-feet of torque. That was the idea. And it's automatic, unfortunately. Yeah, center force gives me, and Will gives me crap about that all the time.

Why don't you just get it swapped out? Because I like just being able to drive it. Cut that third hole, son. Cut that third hole on the floorboard. Put the clutch pedal in there. I'm more than down, but, you know, hell, it needs paint. It needs interior done.

That's the Burt Reynolds car, that the you know that's a 77 okay you're 75 75 so it's got big big circular headlights uh circular headlights still kind of a square round off rounded off square for the the center jamie will pull it up you can pull up 75 firebird and the formula has the big ram air scoops on it right right the the two right yeah the big snorkels that come over the top those are dope there it is oh yeah so that's a trans am and uh mine's the formula oh look at that car i like that yellow one on the right or that uh gray one yeah formula oh so i've been driving that around a bit, and Hotchkiss did all the suspension on it. Willow did the brakes. It stops in a heartbeat.

That's a nice car. Magnaflow exhaust. That's one of the few cars that I like from 75. I feel like everything after 71 is real risky. In a way. I mean, some of the styling lines of these mid-70s cars, I kind of like it in the obnoxiousness of it all. But, you know, whatever you get with these as far as, like, so this car came with a 400, the one that I bought. And it was like seven and a half to one compressions.

It was just a total dog. People are like, hey, do burnouts. I'm like, I wish. I wish. seven and a half to one compressions it was just a total dog people like hey do burnouts i'm like i wish i wish well that was the year that i mean the years where the gas crunch was on and they started making these cars gas efficient right well are they attempted to in some way not to mention they would um they started trying to incorporate um uh smog uh elements to try and reduce the amount of smog these things but they were just highly inefficient the way they were going about it with the AIR stuff and different processes that were

like things connected to the heads and it was just bad news yeah it was a rough time for America I know the rare the rare times that that is right One of the rare times, it was a rough time for cars. Like from 71 to the 80s, all through the 80s, we just made dog shit cars. Made some real snoozers. Yeah. Pontiac was one of the few that was putting together a decent looking car, the Firebirds and the Trans Ams. And then, of course, Corvette.

Corvette still had some good looking cars in the 70s. They did. And especially because even with the low horsepower motors, they're still light cars. You can still get up there and hustle. Five of those. Yeah. And then even into like 77, 78, you had the 6.6 or the 403, I guess, by that point in the Pontiacs. Right now, chicks are turning off their fucking radio en masse.

I don't know if any any chicks wanted to tune in to listen to what i had to say anyway come on bro you're josh barnett chicks want to hear what you have to say they want to learn the ways of men the ways of men yes they want to learn there's a lot of fake men surrounding them there are a lot of confusing signals you know uh i have a theory that uh so not that long ago i maybe just a handful of years ago, I finally got like a leather biker style jacket. Like the Fonz? Kind of, yeah. Hey.

And hooray. You know what? But every time I smack something electronic, it doesn't work better. Yeah, he had a magic touch, bro. Absolutely. The ladies loved him. Yeah. Yeah. Keeps their ladies loved him. Yeah. Yeah.

Keeps their dildos in shape. But he, or I, so I got this jacket, and I've always wanted one ever since I was a kid. And I went to this store in New York because there was no, there wasn't a location locally where I could just try the jackets on. And I didn't want to buy an expensive jacket and have to send it back, all this stuff. So I was in New York, went to the store store found the jacket that fit me loved it bought it been wearing leather living crap out of it taking it all kinds of places it's been in nasty black metal mosh pits with it on I've been all around the world with it I've been in far eastern Russia a leather jacket is made to tell a story eventually at the end of its life but people will go oh you

know do you ride a, you ride a bike? I'm like, uh, no. The reason why I have the jacket is because of Mad Max and the road warrior. Cause when I saw that as a kid, those jackets look bad-ass and you know, here's the bronze, the, the, the MFP running around and their Falcons just tearing ass and blowing shit up wearing these jackets. I'm like, I want a jacket like that. But I started to notice that this jacket was everywhere, everywhere. Everybody, everybody was making a version of this jacket somehow or some way. This biker style jacket, guys are wearing it everywhere. Chicks are wearing it everywhere. And then I'm like, that's a weird fashion trend. I didn't really see that coming. And then as I started to think

about it more and more and more, it seems like there is an attempt within society to try and present the image of toughness, right? So from haircuts to jackets to all these different kinds of things, everyone's trying to appear to be tough and badass all the time without – but people aren't going out there and necessarily risking it like they used to they're not they're not in generally taking on these jobs that are dangerous or or even just you know people want to have muscle cars but they don't want to work on them they don't want to it's like by having the item it somehow in implies some sort of character yeah some sort of toughness some sort of rugged element to yourself like I'm a badass like you've gone through it right but no one's jacket you're falling off your bike going 70 miles an hour and

just rolling and dusting yourself off and you'll see all the like like the 30 year old Hollywood II type dudes with the manicured beards and all that on their Harley's that have all been, you know, turned into choppers and like, no, okay. It's like a,

a big show of, of toughness without, because people aren't going out there and, and living tough lives anymore. Is it toughness or is it coolness? And are they the same thing? It's, I think it's a coolness related to the idea of being tough.

Right. An attempt at authenticity. Correct. And I i you know to use a a term like masculinity right and even though a woman that's appearing to be tough i mean you would call it a masculine trait even though that doesn't mean that they're being a man well she's putting out a signal right a chick that wears like a leather jacket and rides a bike she's putting out a signal like you better be a bad motherfucker if you want this bitch or i'm into girls the previous could still apply to the latter yeah for sure yeah absolutely it's it's like um you know i'm a bad motherfucker all right whatever whatever vibe you're trying to put out there and then you go and you're like,

well, okay, what's bad motherfucker about you? I don't take no shit. Yeah, sure you do. Hey, bro, I don't take any shit. When my agent calls me, I tell him to fuck off. I walked in, I nailed that audition. I didn't even have any product in my hair. I don't give a fuck.

You don't know me, man. I'm different. It's just a little, it's just uh it's just a little it's a casual observation it's totally anecdotal but it just seems like people are attempting to try and it's like things i always tell people about looking at human history i go that the issues that we deal with the things that affect us are not new just in a lot of ways are just more magnified they, especially with social media. Social media, I believe, picks and preys on certain elements of our way of being, our process,

and it heightens our responses to certain things, but it also heightens what we see from these responses. Because when somebody is, let's say, massively insecure. So social media can really play hell on that and make you feel more insecure, especially if you're putting, depending on where you're putting value on what you see or what is said about you or how you are necessarily, if you're comparing yourself to others. others. Also, when you respond to that in some way through your own social media, be it by trying to take more grandiose photos or, or, or I don't know, whatever sort of signaling of how to make up for that, it shines even that much more to everybody else. So what you do get seen as much as you see what everybody else does. And then you're given an option on how do you react to that. Well, if you're not – I mean these are the sort of – you can go back into old books on philosophy and old historical texts. Insecurity is not going anywhere. We're not all that much more different from 1,000 years or 2,000 years or 3,000 years And the way we react and respond to things than we are now, it's just that all these

things are amplified under the, the elements of technology that are around us and how they can affect us and how much easier it is for the, for those things to get to us. Yeah. Radically amplified. I mean, I see people fighting with people on Instagram, you know, see people fighting with commenters. You know, someone posts something and then other people shit on them and then they they take their posts and comment on that. And you got to go. This is like hours of your day, man. And people are just sniping at you for the clothes you're wearing or your fake lips or whatever it is. Something right. And you could say, well, you know, you've got

the person who's got a who's turned their their social media into a very self absorbed sort of platform. That's a lot. That's a lot. And then even in amongst that, it's like, well, I mean, to a degree, if it's your social media, and you are the prime element within it, in, of would be a bit self-absorbed. But I think there's more nuance to it than that. And it's not just to pick on, say, the gals that are taking all the sexy selfies and all that kind of stuff.

There's the dudes that do essentially the same equivalent. And it's all in, you know, often it could be in a response to drive attention towards themselves. But what do you, why do you want that attention in the first place? And then, of course, that's something you can't know until you know the person exactly. Well, a lot of girls make a living off of it. 100%.

Yeah, there's a lot of girls that they do sponsored tweets or sponsored Instagram posts. I don't know how many dudes are making a living off of Instagram that way that got famous. For girls, it's like girls with big asses and this one girl that i just started following her whole instagram is her ass i mean that is it man i was thinking it was a terrible thing to think but i was thinking if a dog ever came over and bit her ass she'd be out of work that's it it's fucked up she's having an arcing spray of of fucking

gel shooting out of her she should have Kevlar pants on everywhere. She goes, that ass Lloyd's of London. I have a, what will you give me per cheek on insurance? I mean, she has a tremendous ass. Don't get me wrong,

but it's just weird when there's this like one body part that essentially defines your identity. Like this, which is weirder that it's great ass though. This, this person with this fantastic monumental Epic level ass, um, identity like this it's almost does which which is weirder that it's great ass though this this person with this fantastic monumental epic level ass um is out there taking photos of it and putting it out there for people to see or that people not only continue to look at it but more flock

to this this uh religious icon of an ass apparently yeah well it is it doesn't get old apparent it just never gets old no not for dudes i mean for girls is there like one but i guess it's abs is it abs like what is the one body part turn to jamie jamie yeah hey tell us about what girls are into but uh for girls it's a wallet look how fat his wallet is it doesn't have an effect he's got a fat wallet but uh and also it wouldn't be surprised that women in terms of that that kind of shallow aspect of social media in that way could could make more impact out of it because even when you look at say all the men's magazine all the women's

magazines and all that kind of stuff like women want to look at hot women yeah right so women are even driven to look at hot we're of course obviously want to look at hot women. Yeah. Right? So women are even driven to look at hot women. We're, of course, obviously driven to look at hot women. Well, women know about filters, too. They're like, oh, this bitch is using filters. Look at her. That is not what she looks like. Oh, my God.

She looks like a cartoon. Look at her face. Look at her face. And then they're trying to find out what filter that was. Yeah. What filter is that? That's a beauty filter. What camera does she use?

Yeah. If girls found out that there was like one camera that really did it, it would be every girl would use that one phone that has that one camera. Exactly. Like if they nailed it, I guess they're all pretty good now. But if there was like one standout phone that took better selfies, like that would be the one that they used. Oh, it would be a marketing avalanche towards that demographic.

For sure. Because like your rear phone, if you have a phone, the camera on the back is always more powerful than the selfie camera. It's a bigger lens. For chicks, that's fucking bullshit. They need a good selfie one.

You need multiple lenses. You can choose which one you need. I know what my friends look like. I see them. I want to see myself. Bang. Selfie sticks. If there was dudes, only dudes on the planet, there'd be no selfie sticks. That shit would have never been invented. You don't think so?

No. If we found if it was only men and we found a guy with a selfie stick, that would be the guy we fucked. Like, hold him down. Hold him down with a selfie stick. Did you get injured? is this a walking stick is this a portable baton in case you get attacked are you using that to take photos inside of a bear cave yeah because you're about to go in you want to make sure you know where the grizzly is are you

uh you know putting that thing around corner to see where that rabbit is yeah get it is that what you're doing because if not i got a problem with this well Well, my arms are short. Fucking dudes with selfie sticks. That is a dark thing. There's something about it, like holding it up. Hey. I'm in front of, you know. Why? Why does that even bother me?

It doesn't even make any sense. Like, why is it okay for me to take a selfie with a regular selfie lens, but it's a problem if a dude has a selfie stick? I don't know. It just seems a bit obnoxious, perhaps. It seems that way. I can't say that I have a reason why it makes sense. Hey, maybe it's simply because we view it as something that,

or we see women do it more, and so we think that a man is somehow doing something womanly? I don't know. Well, it's like if a man gets fillers in his face. You's like, if a man gets fillers in his face You ever see like an older dude who gets fillers in his face? You're like, bro, you want to pull him aside, come here I'm sure I have, yeah You want to go, no, just don't

You're going to be wrinkled, this is just it You're 65 years old, you got to let it go Let it go It's letting go on its own anyways But some gals can kind of pull it off and you feel bad for them, but they still look kind of pretty, so you let it go. Well, you know, personally, myself, I'm not really all that into the, especially manipulating the face like that. For anyone, I just think that it's, one, the potential for it to go really badly is there. And two, I think that people,

you don't have to look perfect to be a beautiful person. Yeah, your personality is at least as important as the way you look. And if your personality is such that you need to shoot plastic in your face in order to feel good about yourself,

I've got to go, ooh. what's happening there below the surface? It could be an indicator of something more serious that no matter how much filler or how nice it could look, maybe there's still going to be an issue per se. It's also one of those things just like anorexia or bodybuilders that can never get big enough where they have body dysmorphia. People don't know what they really look like.

Do you know about the Fibonacci sequence? The numbers, right? Yeah. It's the golden ratio. It actually applies to facial features. See if you can find something on that. Now, there was a BBC documentary on that, right? And at the time, I thought there was something about symmetry.

And Elizabeth Hurley, when they made that thing was considered like One of the most beautiful women in the world by the sim by the mathematics of it all she's still Don't doubt it. Yeah, that chick's like 88 years old. She's still hot as fuck She's rocking it. Um, but there's something about the way your face is shaped about the way your face is shaped um you're you're like a good example is my friend Ari Shafir Ari has a thin face and a long nose and it all works together like if he had my nose on his face it would be like hey the fuck's wrong with your face but the ratios of the width of his face and the length of his nose the size of his eyes all that stuff somehow or another syncs up so you're saying it's not the any one thing it's the width of his face and the length of his nose and the size of his eyes, all that stuff somehow or another syncs up.

So you're saying it's not the any one thing, it's the sum of your parts. Yes. It's all those things go together. And if one of them is off, like say if you are, here it is, golden ratio on the face. So if you are a black woman and you have white lips, like a white woman's lips, people are like, what the fuck is going on with her lips? How does she even whistle? Right.

She's got a large nose or a wide nose. That's why I grow this facial hair to hide my skinny little pointless lips. You've got Viking lips, bro. I've been told, though. I've had some girls go, man, you're actually way better kisser than I expected because it seems like you have no lips. I'm like, uh-huh. Do you know that's exactly what someone told Kylie Jenner

and that's why she got facial stuff shot in her face? Yeah, I was reading that today. This is what kind of a loser I am. 50-year-old man with children. I fucking pay taxes. I got a lot of shit to do. Meanwhile, I'm reading some article about why Kylie Jenner decided to take all the filler out of her face.

It was a fucking article on my Google feed. And I was like, what is this? Well, they know what you're into. I guess they do. I don't know how the fuck they know. They've got you pegged. These sons of bitches. How do they know?

They know the inner workings of Joe Rogan. Well, filler is a fairly recent thing in human history. I'm not all that familiar with it. I mean, I don't proclaim to be much of a- I don't even know what's in it. What is well it's okay let's facial filler google that what's in facial filler sand uh jb weld bondo gorilla cum yeah probably depending on what how high a grade it is or and there's the freshness levels of the gorilla cum what does it feel like if they touch your face and you got some shit and there that makes your cheeks pop.

Some girls look like they got rocked. Like their cheeks look... Injectable fillers for the face. Oh, Jesus. Hyaluronic acid. Now, see, collagen and hyaluronic acid are both going to get absorbed into your system eventually. Yeah, I think that's the good part about it is that it's temporary. Now, I think that's the good part about it is that it's temporary.

And then if you just let your body. Raising scar depressions, enhancing lips, and replacing soft tissue volume loss through facial injections. Hmm. Huh. Enhancing lips, huh? Get it done. But that's why it looks weird with girls when they have big fake lips because of the golden ratio. Your face doesn't, it just doesn't work. Like, go back to that article on the golden ratio of the face, please,

and you'll see, like, they have a, there's a whole mathematical sort of algorithm that they can use to sort of explain what is and is not normal in the shape of your face. Like, look at, what the fuck's her name? Angelina Jolie. Do you remember that song? There was a fucking song that someone,

there was a song, goddammit, this is like 2002. Something like, it was a song was Angelina Jolie got some big ass titties. That was the name of the song. It was a hilarious song. Was that top 40? Amongst me and my stupid fucking friends it was. It was a funny song.

The dude who sang it. Is that funny sober as well? That's a good question, and you'd have to ask somebody else. Those are the years from 2000. When I was doing Fear Fact, is that it? Stating the obvious, is that the name of this song? Yes. It's got some big ass titt it's just so stupid from 2002 to somewhere around 2007 i think i was high every day it's all a blur it's just a it's just like driving i would i was so bored when i was doing fear factor the only way i enjoyed it i was getting

high as fuck you weren't enjoying all eating pig anuses and people screaming about having a centipede on their head and after a a while, it got boring. It got boring. You get desensitized to it. It just didn't mean anything. I just can't watch general porn anymore, right? It's like if there's not a robot in there having sex with a tiger while a midget films it. Clearly, that stuff does happen, right?

There's a reason why people gag porn. Was it Rule 34 if there's not a porn of it that uh it if there's if you can think of it there's a porn out there and 35 is if it doesn't exist it shall be made yeah that makes sense it's a 4chan thing not that i'm on 4chan all the time but oh someone's got an alt account there's something about like people getting desensitized that That's fucking absolutely real. And that's one of the reasons why like in times of war, people are capable of doing more and more awful shit.

It's like you get desensitized, you get normalized. Like people are very malleable. You get accustomed to all sorts of things. Yes. And some of those things don't necessarily stay forever. They're, they're subjective,

you know, for that, that time and that moment. And plus, there is everything that's going around you. And if we're all in here and we're, say, we're drinking coffee and we think that this is the way to be. And then everyone else out and around us are like, well, they're all drinking energy drinks. Well, energy drinks are actually the best thing. Well, now there's this other thing that you see that perhaps then then that bleeds into what, oh, no, let's do energy drinks instead. Yeah.

And if you go from that to, you know, let's drink grain alcohol. Well, maybe not. Well, it could be. Yeah. I mean, sure. People just imitate their atmosphere. Sure. And if someone else is, you know, God, in war, if they take one of your teammates and then cut them to pieces and send them back to you, then all of a sudden you're going to do the same or then some reprisal.

Yeah. Yeah. I used to know a dude who was a Mormon, and Mormons aren't allowed to drink coffee. I thought you were going to go somewhere else. I knew a dude who was a Mormon. He used to cut people to pieces and send them back. No, he didn't do any of that. I don't think.

Well, I mean, Mormons, they're just so friendly so friendly yeah there's something got to be going on underneath something's there's a trigger that you gotta find it puts a hole in there they get a hole in their magic underwear and they're just that's it but i would fucking place down i offered him a cup of coffee he's like no i i can't drink coffee and he had a, one of those huge monster energy drinks. Seriously? Yeah. He was drinking them all day long to the point where he was having heart problems. He was getting fucking heart palpitations. He was drinking, oh, no, it wasn't Monsters.

It was Rockstars. I wonder which one has more caffeine. If I know which one, I think Rockstar has more caffeine. I think Rockstar has more caffeine than a Monster. Monster is doable. I'll drink a sugar-free than Monster. Monster is doable. I'll drink a sugar-free Monster during UFC broadcasts sometimes. I drink those during the New Japan shows.

They're four hours. Yeah, but the problem is you've got to piss. Whatever's in there goes right through your system. That caffeine ain't helping. Goldberg used to drink those fucking things like they were water. He was always peeing. Both Monster and Rockstar have the same amount of caffeine per serving, which is 80 milligrams per eight ounces.

Yeah, but 80 is not that much. If you look at Rockstar list as being 240 or something around there at the whole can and Monster list as being 130. Dude, this is 270. Whoa. Yeah, these little bad boys are 270 god damn it tate yeah make me jump out of this chair case trying tate trying to give people heart attacks shout out to tate fletcher shout out to tate fletcher and caveman coffee yeah um there's uh we people are weird with trends right like whatever the fuck happened

to acid wash jeans i was thinking that the? Like whatever the fuck happened to acid wash jeans? I was thinking that the other day. Like people used to love acid wash jeans. Remember they'd walk around with jeans with all splinters all over them? And they're kind of making a bit of a comeback. Are they? Yeah. Like fanny packs?

Yep. And of the same, you were ahead of the curve. Way ahead of the curve. I never left. You're basically a late 80s pro wrestler. Yeah, right? Like Hulk Hogan. Like Hulk Hogan. Like, yeah. never left you're basically a late 80s pro wrestler yeah right like hulk hogan like hulk hogan like yeah right here ladies and gentlemen this bitch never left my side all leather never

left my side this is real it was made from a bighorn sheep that you uh you tracked down and shot with an arrow i wish i should get one made i've got these access deer hides out there i should get one turn into a fanny pack that'd be dope leave the fur on it fuck yeah right yeah i hope you don't get any ticks no there's no ticks on those i don't think they have ticks in hawaii maybe they do all right but uh it's weird you know but that's the thing about paradigms is you don't really realize it's you know when the paradigm is is over until you're out of it right and so we're in a paradigm now of some sort and it's easy to get lost in that and not be able to see outside it.

What do you think is happening now that will be ridiculed in the future? Tough. I mean, I didn't think that in a lot of ways we would end up to where we are at this point in so many of the social and cultural elements and that didn't even just specifically stay within the U.S., but seemed to be bleeding throughout all of Western society

and civilization at large. I got one word. Yeezys. Yeezys? Yeezys will be mocked. Wait, that's his shoe, right? That's just for Jamie. He loves those fucking things things He bought me a pair

I won't wear them I told him Next time I go running In the creeks I'm gonna wear them Jamie loves these God damn things Oh

Okay I'm not The hippest Still haven't tried them on They still got the foam thing In there bro Put them on Nope

Yeezys Look at that Come on That looks like A sneaker from the 80s, right? I wouldn't even say that. What would you say? By the way, you're talking to a real man

here. That's fine. Okay. You understand this? You understand this? Is that just like the bottom of a fucking seat? He's liking them. A real man is examining Yeezys. Styrofoam Coleman coolers? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's close. That's the bottom part.

That's the Ultra Boost. That's the Ultra Boost. What is this? This is like a glorified fucking water sock. This is like the thing you see some doofus with those frog skin things on his glasses to keep him from falling off while he's wandering around in the, you know. I don't want to get too wet. So you wouldn't wear those?

No. Hmm. Here's what I wear. Weird how manly men agree. I wear these. That's right, motherfucker.

I wear covers. I wear Chuck Taylors. Chucks. Custom Chucks. Fuck yeah. With my logo on the side as drawn by Dan Pinozian. Look at that.

Skulls and shit like this. God damn dirty, stinky Chucks. I wear black metal t-shirts. Fuck yeah. Look at that. Skulls and shit like this. Look at that. Goddamn dirty, stinky Chucks. I wear black metal t-shirts. Fuck yeah. Look at that. See that? Chucks.

Goddamn classics, Jamie. Not this. What is this? What the fuck's going on here? Comfort. I bet they're comfortable as fuck. Yeah, right. They feel soft.

They're like Crocs. While I'm wearing them, I'm like, damn, I should probably put these on when no one's looking. Goddamn. It's like you're just wearing Angelina Jolie's titties, right? Some big ass soles. Yeah, they look comfortable. I could see JP in some Yeezys.

What's that? I could see JP in some Yeezys. JP? Yeah, Jordan Peterson. Jordan Peterson in some Yeezys? Oh, yeah. I could see him wearing some atrocious sandals and no one's looking. Like, what are you wearing, man?

You'd have to talk to him. Take those off. With like some wool socks on underneath them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some Tevas? Jamie and I were talking about this the other day. You're allowed to wear socks with slides. You know, slides.

So there's no- Right, there's no toe thing. Who says? Guys wear them all the time. Fuck that noise. What the fuck is that about? I don't know. It's a thing, but you can't wear them with flip-flops.

No, it's not allowed. Guys wear them all the time. No, keep your socks out of your sandals. We were just in Vegas, and there was some basketball thing going on there. There was a bunch of basketball players. Half of them had slides with socks. Here's the deal with that though.

I can at least say as an athlete that maybe they've got their slides on because they're going to take those slides off and put their basketball shoes right on. For them, it's like I'm out of uniform at the moment but I'm ready to go to combat basketball wise at any moment i i don't know but in general as far as a fashion trend fuck that

noise but it's ridiculous amongst uh like rappers i see rappers wearing those things with socks it just looks like you just i don't know like you're giving up yeah kind of yeah why don't you just wear sweatpants all day too like you're a dude with a wife beater with your gut hanging out of the bottom of it, and you're just fucking kicking back. Fuck it. I can't even bend over and tie my shoes. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I can't even clasp the Velcro on my Yeezys.

Yeah. Yeah. They don't have Velcro, do they? Well, you know. What? I guess you don't need a real shoe if you throw on, you walk out with your socks on, you throw on your sliders and get on your hoverboard or fucking your electric scooter. Would you ever drive a Tesla?

I would drive a Tesla. But, you know, I got one of my beefs, not with Teslas per se in any way, but I would say talking about cars with somebody out and about. in any way but i would say be talking about cars with somebody uh out and about and they'll we'll have some conversation and i'll bring up some car or talking about something like uh the dodge uh now wasn't the demon when the hellcat came out and so like oh yeah those hellcats i've heard amazing things about how not only is it obviously incredibly powerful and fast but that they're they're massively comfortable you could it's a gt car you could grand tour it all over the u.s and be comfy the whole time and smooth riding car and they're like oh but you know what about the tesla i'm like um that's another 40 to 50 thousand

dollars more oh it's almost it i heard it's as fast if not faster i go if i'm paying over a hundred fucking thousand dollars for a car it better be fast it better have all this shit like and i would talk about you know certain other and a lot of times like my firebird doesn't cost that much dude i don't care if that tesla wins you just spent 150 000 on a car okay what if cost wasn't an option what if you were elon musk if i'm elon musk i'm well god i don't think he can not drive a tesla if he's out there in a goddamn three inch exhaust 470 you know big block pontiac people are like what the fuck yeah he probably can't drive anything but tesla right and oh what a trap yeah yeah for real but for me no i would rather i would rather drive um a car I don't feel like electric cars have souls.

Souls. They don't have any. There's like nothing that doesn't. I know what you mean. It's like beep, beep, boop, boop, boop, bop. And then the little printer comes out and it just doesn't do it for me. Well, they're really cool. But at the end of the day, there's a problem.

The problem is it feels good to hear the rumble of an engine. And to fucking put that clutch in and pop that gear. What is that? Elon's two gas cars he owns. A Jag. That's an old school Jag. That's a bad ass car. He's got a little hard top.

It's probably a V12, actually. Those are amazing. Wow. Oh, it's a Roadster. Okay okay so that top pops off wow that's that's a shape man look at that that's incredible what year was that e-type oh wow yeah it's something in the 60s 67 yeah 67 that's a gorgeous car oh Oh, it's so pretty. Let me see that picture again. Scroll down. Oh, look at that. Yeah, but there's something about the sound of combustion engines. It's so magnificent.

Teslas are cool. They're silent. I'm sure they're incredibly comfortable. Oh, yeah, and that pad, the big-ass iPad that you have where your navigation screen is, I mean, it is the shit. the big ass iPad that you have where your navigation screen is. I mean, it is the shit. Where you're driving and that thing and you just ask it to play songs and it pulls them up on Spotify.

I'm also a little weirded out by the over electronic element of modern life. I realize the usefulness of it, but I always think about, you know, when some shit goes south, like I can't just fix it and we keep going. Or if something goes bad, it could go bad in a lot of different ways. And there's a chain of command of bad that it's all linked to that it could go to as well. And so I'm just like, it just isn't. Plus, when you talk about engines, all right, you start up your Porsche, you start up a Vette, you start up an LS motor, and then you start it up next to a big block Pontiac, you start it up next to a big block Ford, and everything has a different feel, a different cam that's in it makes it sound different, makes it operate different. The exhaust that's on it, everything changes based on all kinds of different elements. And so

the car, even of itself, not just the exterior of it, but the internals make it seem like a different vehicle. Yeah, for sure. Have you ever been around a Ferrari? Not a ton, no. But I know they have. They got this sound like... They got their own... Aston Martin is famous for having a very specific exhaust note.

There's sounds that they have. It's like a celebration. It's like, better not drive it too far because it's probably going to break. Before the next 12 minutes, this is fantastic. Nothing like it. The way they sound. I used to love Top Gear with Jeremy Clarkson.

Oh, it was a great show. He's the best. Whoever he punched, he said, sorry. Do the show again. Get over it. What the fuck is wrong he punched, he said sorry. Yeah, get over it. Do the show again. Get over it. What the fuck is wrong with you, BBC assholes? Who can't take a punch nowadays?

A punch, a slap. It's what you were talking about earlier. People are pussified. They're pussified. They're playing tough. They're doing a goddamn car show with a bunch of men drinking booze. You guys got in a fight, and you got hit. Whoa.

Take a little settlement. Move on. Give the man some paper. Take an apology, or even just say, hey, let me hit you one hit. Whoa. Okay. Take a little settlement. Move on. Give the man some paper. Take an apology or even just say, hey, let me hit you one back. Yeah. Fine. I wish I was there. Get your own.

I would have said, Jeremy, how much money you got? What do you got in the bank? 60, 70 million dollars? Give the man one. Give the man a million. People wanting to sort of live at parents' house for the rest of their life, except then it goes from being mom and dad to then being a state of some sort that does all your work for you because you don't want to have to take the responsibility of either winning or losing that confrontation maybe well i think he just got punched well jeremy was a

drunk asshole well maybe so but i don't know if it's even if it's on jeremy he could just go to me like all right dude i'm gonna i get one on you yeah and it's even we're done i move on with my life right but what if the guy can fucking crack? What if the guy hits like Paul Daly? You shouldn't have fucking hit him then, huh? You shouldn't have fucking hit him. You shouldn't have hit him, period. Well, that's the realm of people that don't practice martial arts.

Like how many people get drunk and get in fist fights that actually know how to fight? It's pretty small. According to the internet, it's real small when you watch those fucking stupid street fight videos. It's always people that don't the internet, it's real small when you watch those fucking stupid Street Fight videos. It's always people that don't have any idea what they're doing. You know, they think. I'm always amazed at people's overestimation of what they can do with their body, especially when it pertains to animals.

Like what you would do if an animal was coming at you. Like, you know what my favorite thing to watch is? One of my favorite things of the last couple weeks. I got to stop. I watch fucking Running with the bulls oh man when is that is that in the spring that's actually this week i think i have a bunch of friends over there they're gonna do that no call them call them tell them you love them tell them get the fuck out of there don't do it don't do it hey let's let's uh hey let's get this two-ton animal fucking run. I just don't think people understand, A, how strong those things are, and B, how shitty their body works. People have this idea.

They come to me, bro. I'm going to fucking just get out of the way. I'll just sidestep it. Yeah. Meanwhile, you're on these slick beer-soaked – what is this, Jamie? Oh, this is the end of it. Is this right now? It's the 6th or the 14th.

It's happening right now. I can't believe it. I've been watching videos. I didn't know it was actually live. This is on Instagram. This is so fucking insane. This is so insane. People are so insane.

What if it gets a beat on you and then all of a sudden they go, nope, you're the only one out of this entire crowd of 500 people right now that it wants to gore? Oh, yeah. I mean, if it finds one that sits still, it's going to take its frustrations out. And the crazy thing is, look how many people are there watching this. They're watching these fools running around in the middle of this bullfighting thing. They want to see someone get fucked up by a bull. Have you ever watched a bullfight?

I have not. I have seen plenty of clips, footage of it, what have you. But I've never watched a bullfight. Yeah, I'm not interested. It doesn't really do anything for me. No. I mean, I can, up until the point of killing it, okay, you want to go out there and dodge a bull. Seems like a bad idea, but all right.

But then, all right, you've already proven that you can maneuver yourself out of the way. No need to spear it and kill it. It also seems to me that – I know it's tradition. I know it comes from a different era. I know – I understand that. And so I'm not going to sit here and just like go railroading bullfighting necessarily. The Inquisition is tradition too.

There's a lot of things – It's pretty successful. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of horrific traditions. It just seems to me to be a bastardization of our relationship with animals. I don't think there's anything wrong with domesticated animals,

but obviously factory farming is this disgusting aberration. Why do it? It's possible to have animals that are able to live a more natural way of life than it is to jam them into a cage and force feed them until it's-

I don't know if it's possible to do it the way we've been doing it, though. The real problem is the way we expect to be able to just go jack in the box and get a burger. Well, we eat too much meat. Yeah. In general, I think that your average person doesn't need to eat nearly as much fucking varieties of meat as they do. They definitely need meat in their diet i believe uh on average do you know you know about the carnivore

diet now see here's the thing i've been uh uh i heard you talking to what you've talked a lot about and then jordan peterson and his his daughter well i talked about it with uh chris bell first who's been on it for i think he's been on it for at least six months or so. And he's having radical improvements. And one of the reasons that he's having improvements and then Jordan's having tremendous results and Jordan's daughter as well is arthritis. They all have arthritis. Chris Bell has two artificial hips. I don't doubt it.

Trying to be that guy. Mark is smelly. Mark is smelly. Mark's the big one. Chris is boar. Chris Boar Bell. Yeah. And Chris is the one who produced Bigger, Stronger, Faster.

I met Chris. I've actually never met Mark in person. They're great guys. Yeah, Chris is fantastic. Always got his backward baseball cap on. Yeah, they're both fantastic guys and really, really smart. And just Chris has suffered from serious debilitating arthritis and pain in his joints his whole life. Having a carnivore diet knocked it out for him.

And that's the only thing. I was familiar with the ketogenic diet and all that kind of stuff. And having a higher – it works for me as well to be honest to eat that way my my problem is my love affair with fucking breads yeah there's a problem you're out there getting a coffee maybe in the morning like god damn that looks like an amazing croissant right now you know how it looks even better in my face do you like chocolate croissant i do like chocolate croissants you know you know who's got the best ones coffee bean those starbucks ones can suck my dick you know what i don't eat croissants.

I don't eat. I'm a Seattle guy, but I don't eat Starbucks croissants. You don't? No. They're terrible. They used to be okay. They used to be pretty good. You know when they went south and they started putting them in plastic bags?

They give them to you and they're already sealed up in a plastic bag? Blah. No. See, the ones with coffee bean have way more chocolate in them. They're thick. If you're going to go deep, go deep. That's what I say. I go to the non-chain coffee shops that will like coffee and food and coffee commissary.

There's a place down the street here, a Russian bakery. They have these chocolate croissants that will knock your dick right into the dirt. I can bet. Woo. They're thick, rich, and delicious. Yeah, I'll travel for them. They got good coffee, too. But if I stick to eating in a more ketogenic way, I feel better.

My joints hurt less. I lose fat easier. But I still can put on muscle mass. It is a better way for me to eat. And I don't know if there is something about our genetic makeups. I say me, you, JP. We probably have some crossover similarity there. Yeah, I don't think so.

I don't know if there's anything to do with that. I just know that it's been useful to me. And I've seen it be, you know, that's the way you eat. I've seen, I've heard Jordan talk about his daughter and how useful it's been for her. And as you mentioned. She's another one. I mean, she's had her ankle replaced, her hip replaced. She has like an autoimmune thing, right?

As does he. It's the same exact issue. And an autoimmune issue is also what this radical arthritis is. I mean, there's so many people have these issues. And these are isolated incidences, isolated issues that people have. But I know people that thrive off vegetarian diets they have no problem with it yeah i think vegetarian is the way to go for a lot of people that are thinking about being vegan don't be scared of eggs folks just get eggs are good for you eggs are great for you just everything all this fucking pita propaganda where they call them

chicken periods look if you don't want to kill animals i get it i get it i totally i love animals get free range eggs you can get them at the fucking farmer's market and they have a dark orange yolk and they're fucking great they're amazing and the chickens don't even notice they're gone they don't give a fuck no chickens are gonna have eggs no matter what they just lay them unless there's a rooster there to uh to fertilize it they're just gonna fucking lay eggs yeah it's just food. It's like a gift that they give you for taking care of them. I used to own chickens. I had six eggs this morning for breakfast.

They're incredible. They're thicker and heavier. It's actually good for you. And of all things, one of chickens, one of their favorite little snacks, something that they just absolutely love, eggs. Yeah, they'll fuck up an egg. Chickens love scrambled eggs. Yeah, you know what they really love? They love shells. They love to fuck up eggshells. Oyster shells, Yeah, they'll fuck up an egg. Chickens love scrambled eggs. Yeah, you know what they really love?

They love shells. They love to fuck up eggshells. Oyster shells, yeah, and eggshells, yeah. You know what they love more than that? Mice. Mice, lizards. They'll fuck our mouths up. They're vicious little fuckers, yeah.

But you know what they don't fuck with? Squirrels. Well, they're a little big. Yeah, but they just don't even try. Squirrels like a rat. It's basically a rat. Everybody loves squirrels, even chickens. It'ss like a rat. It's basically a rat. Everybody loves squirrels, even chickens. It's that bushy tail.

It's crazy. That bushy tail is all you needed, that cute haircut. Just a little snap and a wink and ah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I had four chickens, and one time there was a little miniature chihuahua, a little chihuahua or a little mini dachshund maybe, or a mini – it was a min pin.

And it got into the yard and ended up in the backyard and the four chickens cornered it and wouldn't let it leave. And so it's back there whining and yelping. And eventually my ex at the time went and caught the dog and then tried to figure out whose it was and what have you. And it turned out it was chipped i think and it got given somewhere where they someone could then track them down but it was just hilarious that these chickens were like fuck you motherfucker you're in the wrong place you know who else loves squirrels my dog that's a different animal altogether

yeah marshall they hardly ever catch him though He got that one It was like This sweet Golden retriever This kind dog Who loves everybody Yeah he likes Fucking up squirrels too Well the problem is

The squirrels go into The chicken coop They'll find a way Into the chicken coop And they steal All the chicken's food And Marshall just decided To wait outside

The chicken coop Because he knew Where the hole was He just sat in there Bam Boom Snatched that motherfucker. And then he's just with the biggest sheet eating grin on his face.

Yeah. Yeah. Mrs. Rogan does not like the squirrels. She doesn't like the squirrels getting into the chicken food. To me, I feel like we just buy more chicken food. The poor little squirrels. Yeah. Out there hustling.

It's a hard life being a squirrel. It is. Just trying to get them out. Ducking coyotes. You know, just trying to get by. Yeah. Trying to live your life. They're out there.

All this peer pressure from all these other squirrels Trying to live your life. They're out there. They're all this peer pressure from all these other squirrels. And they find smoking young. Yeah. They find this sweet spot where all these fucking nuts and all this grain is like, this is amazing.

Yeah. There's issues. Squirrel gang. You know, when they fucked up though, they started stealing eggs. They steal eggs. These cunts were trying to roll eggs

out of the chicken coop. That's when she got mad. Yeah. I had no idea that squirrels ate eggs Then we started finding videos online Jamie pulled up a bunch of videos of squirrels Rolling chicken eggs out of a chicken coop I've never heard of that either

Yeah, they do I thought, huh The motherfuckers, we have egg boxes They're elevated egg boxes, okay The egg boxes are like two and a half, three feet off the ground The squirrels got up into the egg box Got the egg, chucked it out of the egg box, lands on the ground.

They're getting it and they're rolling the egg. Oh, they're clever little fuckers. Sneaky. And they're cute. So they're like, I can get away with anything. They do get away with more. Yeah. Like rats must be like, what in the fuck, man?

This is bullshit. We're smart as shit. We, you know, we can do, we're way smarter. Yeah. And yet people fucking want to just stab us left and right. Yeah. There's no industry for squirrel killing. No, not really.

Maybe in the deep south, and that's not an industry. There's a lot of guys out there that get their mortgages paid by killing rats. Like they're driving around in a nice car from killing rats all day. There's no one. And nobody cares. Nobody feels bad. Like, oh, I'm an exterminator. We're all racist when it comes to certain animals and bugs.

Right? People collect butterflies. Nobody – stomp roaches. Everybody stomps roaches and swats mosquitoes. Yeah. Well, fuck mosquitoes. Those things, they will give you – Everything.

You know, all kinds of diseases and shit. Dengue, fever, malaria. The only part of a mosquito's life I enjoy or think is interesting is when they're larvae and they're these fucking vicious little things with these giant hooked teeth that can even eat little fish and all that kind of stuff in the ponds. Dude, when I first moved to California, I rented this house in Encino and nobody lived in it for like a year and a half, two years, something like that. And they had a pool in the backyard that was just sitting there with no chemicals in it. It wasn't just green. There was schools of mosquito larvae swimming around like fish.

I went out into the yard. I was like, what the fuck is that? And the guy was like, oh, we'll take care of that. I go, what is that? How do you take care of that? He goes, you poison the shit out of that water. You just pour bleach into it, yeah. Well, the first thing you do is you bleach it.

Then you got to drain it. You got to take- Scoop all that shit out shit out yeah you got to drain all that water out they had to bring like a machine and then they had to clean all the fucking the bottom of the pool it was all green and funky but the crazy thing is they were moving through the water like you know i see those those big flocks of birds yes and they all move together they were doing that in the water. There was fucking thousands of them. It was crazy.

Good thing they didn't grow legs. Oh, it would have been a real problem. It would have been a real problem if they got out and started flying around. I would have got fucked up. There's a meme out there. And I think it's a picture, and it's repeated on the bottom as well of a PETA billboard. And it's got these animals all sitting, standing in a line. And it says, where do you draw the line between food and friend or whatever?

And then someone else has, then they've got the same thing down there. And it's like, this is normal food. This is a catastrophic event, apocalypse. I've seen that. Yeah. I've seen that. Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah. Well, you know, being a vegetarian or a vegan is a very, it's a very first world option. The reason why people got to this point is because we figured out a way to survive eating

all the animals around us, just like they figured out a way to survive eating the animals around them. Well, and they need the argument that, oh, well, this culture is mostly vegetarian or vegan or this or that. And it's like, okay, well, it's also highly developed based on what was available. Yeah. Like they didn't just say, I don't want to hurt the animals. Well, the only people that did is the Hindu.

Yeah. Hindus are fascinating, you know, and there's a lot of speculation as to why. Historically, a pretty developed civilization at certain points in time in comparison to the rest of the world. Oh, yeah. I mean mean you go back and read the bhagavad gita i mean they had some really complex philosophy and really interesting thoughts about the universe but a lot of people believe that that was due to psychedelic drugs and one of the yeah but one of the reasons why they believe they had this interesting relationship with cattle, but not with lamb was because cattle shit would grow magic mushrooms on it. This is because Soma is a big part of a ancient Hindu folklore and their religion and their ancient texts. They

talk about Soma and Soma was some sort of a psychedelic mixture. And they don't know exactly what it was. But they know that Hindus, like a lot of the ancient Hindu text, they deal with some sacraments. And they know that they were into hash. And like a lot of the yogis, the sadhus, they're into chillums. They smoke chillums of hash. So they knew they were into hash. But they think that their aversion to eating cows may have had something to do with the fact that these cows would shit and then the mushrooms would grow out of the cow shit.

And then they would eat these mushrooms and have these profound experiences. Right. And so they thought of these cows as conduits to God. Right. But then there was, you know, also they probably drank the milk, you know, they probably used them to plow the fields, to grow their food. So it's real, it's interesting because when a culture has an aversion to eating a very specific animal and that specific animal also is the main source of psychedelic mushrooms,

to ignore that connection seems a little bit weird. No, I don't think it's arbitrary. I think it's something. I think it's, it's, it's something that would be worth investigating. Right. I mean, why not?

And it, it worst case scenario, you come down to, you have to figure out something else, but look at Shiva, like, right. You see that picture of Shiva, the Shiva has arms,

six arms and Shiva standing on like a little, it looks like a baby. And I always, I, I have a giant bronze Shiva in my house. And when I bought it, the lady said, this Shiva is standing on ignorance. This is what it's supposed to be. I go, I thought ignorance would be way bigger than that.

I felt like ignorance would be like a dragon and Shiva was like fighting. It was much larger than him. But when you, that thing that Shiva's doing, that's what happens when you trip your balls off. Okay? If you trip balls and you were started moving your arms around, I would think, Josh Barnett's got six arms. This is crazy. I mean there's so much of ancient Hindu artwork that is – I thought they were just fanning a bad fart.

Could be that. Could be that. All the fire around it? Maybe that's what it is. They're lighting matches? But the ancient Hindu art, there's this iconography, there's like these iconic imagery, this iconic imagery that you see when

you do psychedelics. You see a lot of this stuff, particularly on mushrooms for some reason. You'll see like ancient Hindu and sometimes ancient Egyptian shit too. Well, I know, you know, you can see, you'll see geometric shapes appear out of, and you know, to me, I'm just like, well, that's just what you see when you're poisoned. But it's a great, it's an interesting way of looking at it. But it's not poison. That's the thing about it.

It's the way it's affecting the way you're're processing it yeah perturbance of your visual cortex yeah but it's not poison that's the crazy thing it's like the ld50 of mushrooms it's almost impossible to eat yourself to death like you'd have to eat your own body weight like you you would get way too stuffed put them inside those fucking croissants those chocolate croissants now you're talking that might be the move somebody with mushrooms that's a term that has continued to to go throughout uh yeah it's like a sleeping pill now yeah and then it was also a major element within aldous huxley's brave new world which uh i think that was based on that probably so i'm firmly of a belief that what we're living in is not a Orwellian potential dystopic future.

We're living in a Huxley version because Huxley and Orwell saw it from two different ways. And Orwell was more of the, there would be force and violence and direct suppression of individuals and groups and retrain.

Now, there is thought policing. And, you know, even though they call them equity, diversity, whatever departments, I mean, there are people that are there to, you know, they have these cabals that try to force everybody to be in line. But it's, you know, they're not necessarily gassing folks or beating on them or what have your shock therapy. However, Huxley's version of how this would all go badly was that everybody would be so comfortable that there would be so much luxury and pleasure and that you would just not fight back. Yeah. Anything that they would try to impart upon you, the way they would get you to do it is just make your life even softer and even easier.

Yeah. Huxley was right in that regard. And also, there's so little danger in the world and so little real drama that we look for drama. Of course. We look for it all over the place. We've made the world. We've made the world.

What's going on? Most of the world. Very, very safe. Especially for, at least for us in the First World Nations. There's something that Dave Rubin tweeted today. See if you could find this. It's a real reason that the mayor of Durham. Was it something about Star Wars?

I don't think so. No. The mayor of Durham apparently said something about Jordan Peterson. That Jordan Peterson is not welcome in durham north carolina because of his transphobic and racist views what yeah what is he let's see i can't read that man can you make that a little larger what a fucking misrepresented person jordan peterson has become just well it's got to be blatant very strange. We believe that Durham is a place for all of us. Black, white, Asian, Latinx. Oh, I like how you went Latinx instead of Latino.

Because if you say Latinx, it's like Latina, Latino. You get it? All the Latinos. I'm not taking any chances. Indigenous and mixed race, trans and cis. Cis isn't a real word. You're getting crazy, Mayor. Gay and lesbian, queer and straight.

This is the thing. Queer doesn't cover all of it anymore it's not uh i'm always confused by that it's got a very open vague term i mean and maybe there is a and maybe there's some sort of accepted standard for what what defines queer versus what about able what about uh asexual is that all right how come he didn't put that in asexual people you should march oh? How come he didn't put that in? Asexual people, you should march. Oh, yeah, now they're fucked. Attack.

Yeah, the asexual activist lobby is coming. Those who seek to exclude or deny the humanity of others will find no comfort here. That's always an interesting statement that people like to make. Deny the humanity. Like, who said that you, who's denying your humanity? Even assholes, right? I mean, even someone that's just a prick. It's like they can't, you just heard it and responded to it.

You're living the life that you want to live. How can they deny your humanity? Well, look at this. We wish to emphasize that a person's right to free speech does not include the right to a platform or an audience. Well, here's the thing. You can't deny that people are listening to him and enjoy his work. But if you're going to make these broad statements, you have to have some sort of

evidence to back up what you're saying. I know Jordan Peterson, and he's definitely not a racist. No. He's definitely not transphobic or homophobic or any of those things. He was against compelled speech. Yes. State compelled speech. State compelled speech, meaning that there was a bunch of different words that they were forcing people to use that were these new gender pronouns. And they were compelling. And they have human rights councils in Canada.

And he is a clinical psychologist, and he's very well read, understands like marxism and all the pitfalls modernism and neo-marxism and its its evolution from classical marxism and how it's been influenced the difference between emphasizing the superstructure over the base yeah this is just virtue signaling its worst form i am a a very very familiar with jp's work he actually sent me a copy of his book through twitter. Oh, that's amazing. Which was fantastic. But the way I came across Jordan Peterson was that as a big fan of Nietzsche and his philosophical writings. So I'd go on YouTube to see if I could find lectures on Nietzsche and in his maps of meaning lectures, and this is before any of the issues with BLC 16, really.

I didn't know about any of that. I was just listening to Jordan Peterson lectures because of him referencing and talking about Nietzsche. So, and then from Nietzsche, it's Dostoevsky and all this. And he then started to talk a lot about Marxism and communism and post-modernism in reference to each other in other ways. And then the C-16 stuff.

And then I was living with a Marxist for a while. So I started- Were you really? Yes. Oh, stuff. And then I was living with a Marxist for a while. So I started- Were you really? Yes. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, it was not fun. But at the same time, I had to try to understand the arguments that were being made and why. And so you got to go research them.

So if someone says, oh, the wage gap, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay, well, I guess I need to look up the research on what that is. And you come back and you go, oh, well, that's actually not an apples for apples comparison. And it's not 70% on the dollar. And you just go into it and then they just look at you and they go, no. It's like, I read, what's your source? Well, this thing. I read that source.

It doesn't talk about education level, job for job, hours worked. I mean, no one's saying that things couldn't be better. Yeah, people who haven't heard this argument before, when you hear about the wage gap, the gender wage gap, it's not people doing the same job. That's what's – this is the best way to say it. It's not people doing the same job and it's not people working the same hours. The reason why men make more money is they do different jobs. Now, are those jobs more difficult for women to get is a real question some of them i imagine they are um perhaps i mean i never doubt that there is a potential

sexism or any sort of ism to some degree in something there's sexism coming from both sides of the tracks by the way there's how many women want to be working on a fucking oil rig out in the middle of or doing you know pipelines up in frozen south north dakota or something i mean they did not and how many of them are physically capable of doing the work too right which isn't a woman's fault at all and you can't i wouldn't hold it against anybody or and if they didn't if they chose did did not want to choose to do that kind of employment there's nothing wrong with that either no you. You know, if a woman wanted to go off and make artisan soap, right?

That motherfucker could make the best soap with essential oils that are the best for like, you know, like how you use defense soap stuff. Like if that was a woman that came and created all that, like that's a valuable, respectable, fantastic thing that they just,

it doesn't require physical strength. Anybody can do that. Don't, don't diminish the compliments of someone else just because it doesn't fit what you think is. Well, the problem is when we get into teams, man. I mean, toxic tribalism is the real problem. The real problem is people get into teams, whether it's

male versus female, and this mayor of Durham guaranteed it's a Democrat. Well, it's weaponizing. A lot of this stuff is weaponized. So most of the stuff about the patriarchy, which I'm also in agreeance with Jordan Peterson, that doesn't exist. That's not the way human history has rolled out. I don't buy that at all.

Or the wage gap. These are weaponized things. They use them in a weaponized way to try and destroy your argument or your position or your way of being. It's a weaponized – They diminish your point of view by saying, oh, it's your white privilege talking. Something like that. of being it's a weapon they diminish your point of view by saying oh it's your white privilege talking something like that a lot of white privilege too i am so white you're a big white guy too i am very very white with a red beard yeah dude yeah from the pacific northwest how much how much more white can you get any whiter

if i get any whiter i'm gonna be wearing uh you know fucking Birkenstocks with socks on. You should shave your privilege. Man bun. Man bun is a bold ponytail. But these terms are used in conflict. And why wouldn't they be? Because most of the source material,

the creation of these sort of ideological viewpoints are from postmodernist neo-Marxism. And it's all based on the concept of conflict theory. So there's always going to be an oppressor and an oppressed. So if what you are doing is trying to argue with or even just make your case to someone who's an oppressor, well, it would be weaponized. Because as far as you're concerned, everything they do is weaponized against you right so you've already chosen a a confrontational position there's also a problem with people wanting to be right and i think that's human nature well i also

like whether it's someone who's a post-modernist or someone who's a staunch conservative people go into any discussion with a presupposed or they have a preordained or pre they have a collected group of ideas that they have attached themselves to correct and they do not want to let those go no and you have yours and i have mine it's very difficult for people to just talk and very difficult for people to just someone to lay out their their position and someone else to lay out their position and two people to like cordially discuss the merits of each position with an open mind it's it happens so rarely and it's something i try so hard to do and it's it's something that it took me years to cultivate the mindset to not not have these pre-existing condition

pre-existing ideas or if i do them, don't attach myself to them and be ready to abandon them at any moment, like under new evidence. Sure. And there's no problem in saying, okay, well, I believe A and you believe B, and we both believe them to be correct. Well, tell me why A is incorrect. Or better yet, tell me why you believe what you believe. Right.

Give me some reason. What are the facts? Give me something. And let's find if those facts are real. Right. And I used to, you know, I'd have these conversations with, and this person used to, that I was living with, I would say, they're like, well, you just always have to be right.

I go, no, no, no. I don't have to be right. But if you're going to make a claim, you're going to have to defend your argument and I'll defend mine. But ultimately, I don't care if I'm wrong because being wrong only means that I can then perhaps work towards a way of having the most understanding that I can have. We as human beings are wrong so much more than we're ever right. But by being wrong, by making mistakes, than we're ever right. But by being wrong, by making mistakes, it's like through martial arts, by being on the mats and you know, God, I'm going to get this guy's ankle right now. Ah, fuck that up. Ah, fuck that up. Oh,

I got caught. Oh, fuck that up. You can't get to the point to where you're like, oh, this is how you set it up. This is the way that you can, I wasn't securing the knee well enough. So it was always sliding out of position. I couldn't keep the leg framed in such a position where when I applied my hold, the pressure went to the joint that I needed it to. None of that happens until you make mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake. And there's nothing wrong with before moving forward on something to sit back and to study a little bit and to try and understand

somewhat of the landscape. But eventually, the only thing you can do is you just got to go, right? Paralysis through analysis isn't going to help you either. Well, I lived a good portion of my life wanting to be right always. Sure. And it's a toxic mindset. It's terrible for you. It's terrible for you because you don't grow and then you have to live in denial. And then you have to always tell yourself that you were right and they were wrong. Even if you get out debated or even if you're faced with new evidence, you try to ignore that new evidence.

I know the mindset. I lived in it for many, many years. It's easy to be in. It's an easy place to be in. And not to huck back on. It's hard to relax yourself and just realize that you are not facts you are not your ideas you're not your opinions you're you're you and if you attach yourself to these opinions these ideas like you're gonna it's a fucking trap like you have to know

what like here's here's something i know for a fact this wood is hard if i've hit this wood with my knuckles this shit's hard if it If it dropped on you, it would hurt. These are undeniable facts. And there's a gang of those that you have in the world. There's a gang of undeniable facts. That's what I call operational objectivity. Yeah. Whether or not Marxism can be successfully implemented in a large scale with a sensitive,

compassionate group of human beings that all live together. Whew. Can it? I don't know. It beings that all live together. Whew. Can it? I don't know. Doesn't seem to be. Yeah. Well, I don't know though. See what I'm saying?

Like this is a, this is a comp, it hasn't been done before. Socialism never really worked, but can it work? The argument that it can't work is seems to me, that doesn't make any sense either. Like maybe it could work. Well, the argument that it could work is that. But see what I'm saying? Like these are, these are like really broad, yeah, complex, nuanced concepts that need to be discussed up and down and back and forth. And you also need to look at the weight of human history, the myriad times it's failed. Right. And just human history. And even

in ways that, which is not directly related to, Marxism, but just to look at patterns and trends and ways of people of operating and to see how, OK, well, given a different circumstance, how would that process work within this one or in this one or in this one or this one? well if you if you're like well i don't i don't think marxism will work but you can't say that until you actually study what marxism is and what its principles are because if you don't understand the argument and this is like you know john john stewart mill you you can't just defend your side without knowledge of the other yes you have really no position to your position isn't any better than theirs yeah that's a really good point i mean i think everybody should do that no matter what you're looking at, like whatever you're trying to defend, look at even, even if it's something horrible,

even it's like a racist position, find out why these people support this. Cause they believe it. Right. And so what, why do they believe this racist position? What is it about them that they think gives it validity? And you can look at it and go,

I could see where they could take this way to its extreme. And that, that, I mean, that's nonsensical, but you see where it started or you can look at it and go, I could see where they could take this way to its extreme and that, I mean, that's nonsensical, but you see where it started or you can see like that that's everything about this is clearly driven by something else and not what they claim. So- Well, it's also the,

one of the things about society is that we really have to take into consideration is the momentum of the past. Like there's, this country has unique freedom to it because it was literally created by people who decided to get on a boat and risk traveling across the ocean to some new land. It's a country filled with savages,

like crazy people that took wild chances and did wild things because of it. And if you look at the history of this country that's clearly established by, look at the art, look at the music, look at the things that have come out, the comedy, all those things that have been created, the cars, all the different things that have come out of this one place. And this one place just happens to be the most recent place with the least amount of historical baggage. But then you look at the places that have the most amount of historical baggage like Africa or, you know, some parts of Russia. And like these are places where they have the hardest time breaking out of these the weight of the cultural momentum of the past. You know, it's very difficult for people to to radically change an established system that has existed for a thousand years. Well, that's true. And if you were to say, think about communism and the Soviet states in the length of what

constitutes human history has only been gone for, it was around for a short time and it's only been gone for an even shorter time. And it's not really gone. I mean, it's gone, but it's still a dictatorship over there. Yeah, I guess there's elements of that. Both China and Russia. Did you hear about that lady in Iran? She's going to jail for eight years for fucking dancing?

Oh, no. The Egyptian girl, the Lebanese girl's going to jail for, she made a YouTube video about getting sexually harassed in Egypt. Okay. So they sentenced her to eight years in prison. She's 22 years old holy shit terrifying she's a 22 24 or something like that she's young and they sentenced her to eight fucking years that's the people here in america or western the western civilization at large

just fucking they just put on the blinders about stuff like that it's like there are places and i'm not going to you to demonize these places either. But at the same time, you as a 22-year-old could have a complaint and say, hey, this thing happened and this is fucked up. And all of a sudden they can go, huh, you think that was fucked up? Boom, and throw your ass in jail or have you executed or whatever. I mean, it's like, OK, well, I guess I don't have the right to express myself. Whereas, you know, people will show up and bang on doors and do all kinds of crazy shit when Jordan Peterson comes and does a talk.

And the thing is, they're allowed to. They're allowed to protest what he has to say, counter protest if they want, or to express their unhappiness with things political and things media-wise. Anybody can say what they want in terms of what makes them unhappy without fear of the government silencing you. Right. That's a major thing. It's a major thing.

And this poor girl in Iran, she's just dancing. You know, people that always rail against Islam or Islamophobia. There's so much Islamophobia in this world. Yeah, sure there is. You're right. There is. But you know what else there is? There's also radical Islam and radical Islamic governments that are putting women in jail because they fucking dance.

Religious zealotry. That's happening right now. It's just religious zealotry. And while people will often get into a conversation about this and they'll bring up well what about the crusades or what about this i go hold on these are all relevant things too and while the crusades are not nearly as cut and dry as you think they are in fact which to it ended in like the fourth crusade two two groups went down there uh and then end up fighting each other it's like uh you're both christian yeah what the fuck are you thinking but then you had things like the Inquisition.

You have, you've had all kinds of stuff and it's like, yeah, no, you, you, you just, that doesn't erase this.

And that doesn't, they don't balance each other out. It's just, it's just, right. And it's because it's one religion and not the other. It doesn't make it's the, the,

the motivations are the same. It kind of comes, it comes from the same concept, even if it's not technically the same religion. Well, it reinforces it in my opinion. I mean the idea that – it's not the idea that Christianity is so amazing and Islam is so bad. It's that ideologies force people into very terrible behaviors. They can.

They can very, very much so. And they often do. Yeah. I mean most of the time it goes bad when you have a powerful, potent ideology that is dominating a culture. Well, imagine, okay, you had Christian zealotry and let's say Islam and Christianity had swapped. And Islam had all kinds of reformations and different sects break off from it and all this. And it become more like Christianity is in this modern era. Christianity is in this modern era, but Christianity stayed in a more less developed sense and had a more rigorous, fervent zealotry in terms of adherence to doctrines, or at least, or

even interpretations of doctrines in certain ways. Old Testament style. But within this context of the modern era. So now you have the internet. So any, let's say, you only got like a million people in the world that feel this way. But these million can all connect with each other via social media, very different electronic ways. They can create weapon where they can weaponize things much easier. They can coordinate. They can. It's it's not like the crusades where you had to get money from a king and other monarchs, get together all these troops, get together all these supplies, march them all down into the Middle East to where you've got the Turks waiting for you.

They've done the same thing. And then you guys all meet up on these different points of battle. You could literally be at war all over the world all day, every day, all at the same time because of the modern advances of technology. And not to mention you have firearms, you have explosives and chemicals and things that you can use to your disposal. Drones. Or a truck. Yeah. Right?

You didn't have six-ton trucks to drive into a crowd. That's just technology. It's it helps it makes our lives better. But in other ways, it can also create calamity for us. And it's really their tools. You know, social media is a tool. I think that social media is if you were to track mass the mass shootings that have happened, the rise of social media and the rise of mass shootings would be on a parallel. I really think that it's social media that's increasing the amount that you see with the school shootings and things like that. Because they get fame from it. They get fame or you're able to antagonize someone and they can't get away from you much more easily.

They can't get away from you much more easily. The resentment, using a Nietzschean term in terms of the resentment, the resentfulness from seeing other people having what you think you deserve or doing – thinking that they somehow are having more of what you think that you want that as well. Why do they get to have it and I don't or any number of reasons why you could be incredibly potently resentful. And now you have this thing that's just in your life pumping all this kind of stuff at you all the time. And I think that it can affect people in some really pathologically bad ways. And now you have technology to also enact it. And if it's not in the end, you can also easily make the argument if it's not a firearm, it could be something else. And that doesn't make it any better. But I think that the rise of social media is a direct correlator.

It's directly responsible for the rise in these school shootings. Directly responsible? Or directly correlates to it. I think that there's a correlation there. I think certainly there's a lot going on in society. I think the big factor, well, there's a lot of factors. People are alienated. Yes.

There's terrible child rearing. People have mental health issues. Yes. People are medicated. The big one is medication. Imagine all that with the technology of social media able to heighten some of the effects of some of these things or to create – so someone that feels alienated. Imagine now not only do you feel alienated in the real world, but then when you're on social media, you – one, it's not a real – you know it's – your body knows it's not the real world but you could be alienated out there too and that which alienates you there could still penetrate and get to you

while you're out where you're away from it if people are fucking with you at school or what have you then you're at home you're feeling alienated there and then this is continuing to fuck with you through social media yeah or other people are fucking with you on social media let's say you're playing your video games and people are talking shit because you keep getting shot and, you know, Battlefield 5 or whatever. And then all these things are just compounding. Compounding. Yeah. And while no one knows, I mean, I'm sure you wouldn't necessarily know that if I say, oh, you know, fuck you noob or something on some video game, that this person

is essentially in real life being told fuck you every day all day feeling like the whole world thinks fuck you how would you know that but it could be then that person snaps or that person has a they're they have a psychological issue that they're not i'm sure there's a bunch of factors there's a bunch of fact first of all there's the ability to kill large groups of people, which is unprecedented, right? The ability to use assault rifles and just fucking semi-automatic guns and go in and kill large groups of people. The knowledge that if you do do that, it will make a huge splash and giant headlines and you'll be infamous. The fact that a lot of these people are on disassociatives. The fact that a lot of these people are on disassociatives, a lot of these people are on serious psych medications that we really have only been studying the effects on human beings for the past couple decades.

There's not a whole lot of data on long-term use of these SSRIs over 20, 30, 40 years. Correct. So you've got varying peoples with varying mental illnesses, varying psychological pressures and stresses and lives that are just beyond fucked. And then they have access to guns and they want people to hurt the way they're hurting. There's a lot of that. There's a lot of factors going on. Well, and, you know, even if they illegally acquire the guns, I mean, they still, I mean, it doesn't matter what the, in this case, what the tool is per se, but.

Well, you know what? I don't think we're meant to to understand i don't think we understand nor are we meant to live in large groups of people where we don't know the people around us that's another thing i think that is a really new situation for human beings people don't they overlook the historical significance of the population growths, the population density that has been gathering as we get into these high-density civilized areas like cities, these big cities. And it changes everything. Yeah, and people are less likely to know that many. Like if you live in a town of 150 people, you probably know 150 people.

If you live in a city of 5 people you probably know 150 people if you live in a city of five million people you probably know 10 people you know you know people you work with you might know a couple friends you know unless you're like a really social person sure you probably have a way more limited number of people that you actually know than people that have a tight-knit small town and small community but you know those people are obviously in your business. That's one thing. If you have a fucking – I know friends that live in small towns. Fuck, man. There's things that come with that, too.

Yes. A lot of busybodies. A lot of busybodies. A lot of people peeking over the fence. I think they had the anal sex last night. Jesus is going to punish them for that. They ain't going to punish me. When the next lightning storm come on through, you're going to fuck.

Jesus does not like butt fucking. Speaking butt fucking let's talk about usada yeah without the lube yeah we were um we started this podcast um talking about what we talked about your your situation with uh brendan chobb and i had talked about your situation where you were, you tested positive from a tainted supplement, like legitimately tested positive from a tainted supplement. You were cleared, but this whole process was a goat rope, right? It took a long time to work out and you didn't feel like you were fairly treated. Not in the least. It started one way, then took a fucking curve.

What happened? Well, so- What did you take? I took a supplement that had tribulus in it. That's all it was. It's just tribulus. It's a Chinese herb. It's a Chinese herb that stimulates testosterone.

And by the way, it barely works. Yeah. That shit barely works. It's not going to turn you into Superman or anything like that. If you get more sleep, it's better for your testosterone production than tribulus. So it's just tribulus is all it was. And the supplement itself, as it turns out, was contaminated with a SARM called Osterine. But when I say contaminated, I mean like it had such trace amounts that the people that did the lab testing on it said, well, it's clearly just contamination because this wouldn't help you.

This wouldn't do anything for you. And let's explain how that happens. A lot of these places, I know this for a fact because I am one of the owners of Onnit. Onnit is a third-party tested company where we get our stuff tested by an independent party to make sure that there's nothing funky with it. But we've had some issues in the past with stuff being in our earliest formulations of AlphaBrain that weren't supposed to be in there. And what it comes from is you buy your ingredients from a company.

The company has these vats that they mix everything in, and they don't properly clean the vats. And if they don't properly clean the vats, you're buying some stuff from China. Who knows what they're chucking in there? They got steroids in there. They got this. They got that. A lot of creatine is tainted with all sorts of shit. A lot of different supplements are tainted.

And that's what USADA thought it could have been at first. It happened to Tim Means. Yes, it happened to Tim Means. It happened to Yoel Romero. Yes. A lot of guys. So this stuff is contaminated, right? And so USADA was testing me.

I had had a fight in September of 2016 against Arlovsky. And then after that, I was like, yo, I'm just going to take a break for a while. I'm not fighting for – I'm going to tour Europe and goof off and whatever. And then when I get back, I don't really – I don't know when I'm going to get back in the ring. And they're like, all right, whatever. And the UFC, we told them. But USADA would still come around and test. And it's like, okay, fine, whatever.

So this is post-testing positive? This is pre. Pre, okay. So you fought Orlovsky and you said, I'm just going to chill for a while. Yeah. And then one day um well like for one when i'm out there in europe and i let them know like hey i'm going fucking where the wind takes me in europe and i don't have a whereabouts to fill in because i could be on a train moving

here moving there whatever which is your prerogative right as a human being and they they know that and yet then they go ahead and sent someone to my fucking house to try and test me while I'm in Europe. And I'm just going, okay. So isn't there like an app where you fill out? There is an app. How does that work? You can fill out where you're supposed to be ahead of time for the most part. So on Tuesday, the 16th, I'm going to be at this place from this time to this time.

But what is your home base? So if we don't go to these places, and we'll just meet you at your home at some time or whatever, let's say you just decided to go to Japan. Do you have to tell them, Hey, today I'm going to take a train to Osaka today. I'm going to go to the mountains.

So you have to give them a detailed itinerary of every day, every day. Okay. And so I'm like, fuck dude, I'm just trying to be out here, live, just doing whatever I'm not fighting.

But you know, when I get home, you test me wherever you want. You just wanted to enjoy a vacation, just travel. Correct. And they go, they send someone to my house. I was like, fuck, all right. And then there are times where. So what happens when they send someone to your house, but you told them you weren't there? Well, for one, no one told.

I don't know how how what mechanical elements within their organization how that works but they sent someone there anyways i'm not there that counts but had but it count does it count because did you tell them that you were going to be on the road i we did so they still counted that as you not being there for a test yes well that doesn't make any fucking sense well it is what it is so uh but wait a minute if if they're going to give you a strike like don't don't they have to follow their protocol and their protocol is you have to inform them of where you're going to be right so if you did that you inform them where you're going to be yes my manager literally told Nowitzki and the UFC, he's not going to be home for almost a month, and he's fucking practically backpacking all through Europe, going from place to place to place.

So he's going to be real hard to get a hold of. Good time to take steroids. Oh, yeah. Just fucking get rid of them, come back Bang Just swole to the gills Yeah you'll pass True But if they showed up in Europe You did give them your location

And you told them where you were If they would But I was gone I didn't fill in any locations I just went wherever I went So when you went wherever you went And your manager told you SADA That you were in Europe

They still showed up at your house In LA Okay Well that doesn't seem to make any sense. And they give you a strike? Yes. And so I'm like, okay, that's aggravating. They gave Cowboy a strike when he was at the UFC.

Yeah, so it's stuff like that. How about them apples? And I saw that and I'm like, you know what? I can't fuck around with any of this stuff. I don't want people to use this as some sort of kindling to try and start a fire about me. And so then I get back home

and they test me again. Like, alright, fine, whatever. And then they test me again and I'm like, okay, now you just made me late to an audition as you just showed up out of nowhere. Cool. So they can do that? Like, they can just show up and you can't say, hey, I have an appointment to keep.

They're there. But even if you are not fighting, like say if you're running out the door and you have a business appointment, how long does it take for them to test you? Depends on what they're doing, whether it's blood and urine or just urine. With me, it's always been blood and urine.

So you can't say, hey, you guys are going to have to come with me because I got to go to this fucking So you can't say, hey, you guys are going to have to come with me because I got to go to this fucking audition. Yeah, I don't know. I didn't try that. I would say that. Get in the car, bitch. How are you going to sit there and have someone draw blood on you?

You're not going to. You guys are going to have to do it when I'm done. If you want to keep an eye on me, come with me the whole way. I always took it as they showed up. It's like, well, here it goes. That doesn't seem to make any sense. If you have previous commitments and you have to do something, they shouldn't have like ultimate precedent over your life. Like they shouldn't be able to just decide like showing up

randomly. I suppose they could, they could make an argument in some way on that. But if you have a life, well, in any case, so I take this test and I'm like, all right, I'm just going to retire for now. I got too much shit I got to do. I'm not fighting anytime soon. I've got my New Japan stuff. I've got auditions. I've got all these things. I'm traveling and I just, I'm not going to fight.

Right. So just leave me be. And then I'm in Japan and the fucking, the very last test I took right before retiring. Oh, you're flagged. I'm like, you got to be fucking kidding me. Really? Really? Really?

All these tests over all these years, me being the first person to do complete out of competition or in competition, random urine and blood testing when i worked with wada and the nevada state athletic commission when i fought travis brown so no one had ever done actual random testing before and there was no usada involved in the ufc yet why did you do that it was something that the nsac wanted to see done and i'm like fine whatever wanted to see that done because you had tested positive in the past. What did you test positive before in the past? You've taken some stuff right?

I tested positive for anabolics in the past. But I mean the supplement market used to be way wilder. Than it used to be. And also. Fighting was way wilder. Fighting was way wilder. The supplement industry was way wilder. It's like back in 02.

You could still buy all this shit over the counter that by oh four got reclassified as steroids i remember i was taking this shit called mag 10 do you remember that i remember mag 10 what was the name of the company that makes that uh death incorporated death incorporated that shit that shit is all steroids that shit was steroids it was steroids 100 i remember mag 10 yeah you gained like 10 pounds in six weeks on that shit. You'd just get jacked. But that was all over the counter. Yeah.

You used to be able to buy a lot of stuff. And by the way, liver toxicity is probably off the charts. Probably. There was a lot of those things that are like super bad for you. Yeah. But real effective. They fucking worked. This stuff worked.

But so, you know, there was a whole different era. And then with California, you know, I, I had an issue with, with a contaminant, what I believe ultimately to be a contamination, but I didn't take all the steps that I had this time. And once that whole process was such a motherfucker, I'm like, this is never going to happen again. So every supplement lot that I took, I would always keep bits of it behind for until I need, I could get, I felt there was enough time it expired I would always keep bits of it behind for until I felt there was enough time it expired, I can get rid of it because no one's going to come back and test me.

I've passed all my tests. So once you passed your test, you would get rid of the old stuff. Right. I don't need to keep those lots anymore. You're supposed to take the only third party verified stuff. Well, that's not what they say necessarily. They suggest it, I guess, now. They suggest it, I guess, now.

But I know that with this brand of Tribulus I had taken, I had taken three or four different other supplements from the same company and all passed no problem on their test. Right. So it was just some weird contamination, which does happen again. Happened to Amines. Yes. It's happened to several fighters. As far as I can tell, I mean, I'm not testing their whole product line, but it just seemed like a fluke. And it's just such a simple supplement in any case, a one-ingredient deal.

So then they come back and they're like, oh, you tested positive for this. I'm like, well, that ain't fucking possible. So then I send in some supplements, which I had to pay for to have them tested. They run them through the testing, and then bang, they find it. All right, there you go. There's your deal. Then they went out and bought a brand-new bottle, unopened, same lot, they find it. All right, there you go. There's your deal. Then they went out and bought a brand new bottle, unopened, same lot, tested that one, verified the results. Same thing. Tested positive. That's what happened to Tim Means as well.

So then we're in contact with USADA throughout the entirety of this. So we don't ever break contact with USADA. We have a specific guy. I'm not going to throw his name out there or anything, but we have a guy that we spoke to directly the whole time through my manager speaking with him, and I've seen the emails. And so we're talking about how we know this is a contamination, and when we get done with all this, why don't we even try to put together something,

some promotional stuff, anything that we can do to try and keep athletes from ending up in the same issues. And we'd like to do whatever we could to help you guys out with this. We're not against you. We don't mind being a part of the system. And we understand why you're here. And I'm not against them wanting to do drug testing or whatever and try to keep a clean and fair playing field. I get the point of it. So we get the supplements tested.

They test the secondary batch. They have all their information. It's like, all right, this should be fucking rock and roll. And then they got real quiet. Okay. Now you're not talking to us anymore. What do you mean? Like you would contact them, they wouldn wouldn't respond they would take them a week two weeks and what were they saying when they do respond uh you know i i can't entirely remember myself but my manager was in touch with

them so what is the protocol if someone tests positive for something that's a tainted supplement and it's a third-party supplement and where it's not or it's not third-party verified rather well i don't even know if it was third-party verified that anything would be any different okay well if it is third-party verified and still is tainted yeah that would be an issue right yeah if you tested positive you tested positive if they found the supplement yeah i think the idea about third-party verified is it's much less likely to be a tainted supplement. But it doesn't absolve anything. Right.

And this is coming from someone who's in the supplement business. There's a certain amount of this stuff you farm out. So as far as I know, what the deal is, there is a period of ineligibility sort of. Basically, what happens is you're effectively suspended until this thing is all finished out. And they try to say that you're not suspended. There's no suspension, but that's not true. Well, no one's going to book you for a fight. Everyone treats you as you're suspended.

I tried to corner Travis Brown because I was training him, and they wouldn't let me. They wouldn't let you corner him even though you were? Yes. Okay. And this is Nevada. And they're like, you're suspended, so't you can't corner but you said you're not suspended yeah exactly okay so you're effectively suspended you can't work you can't even work as a a tertiary individual as a as a corner man or anything like that you can't be at

the event and this is after the fact where you brought them the supplements, they independently verified that it was tainted? Yes. And so then we start talking. And throughout the process, I said, look, I'm not taking a punishment for contamination. And I'm not even fighting. I'm not fighting anytime soon. I'm not. You can't.

Like what you did with Means and these other people, you punished them. You know that it was contamination, but you punished them. Yeah, they gave them many months of suspension so that they weren't able to compete or make a living during those months. Right, and I'm like, no, I'm not dealing, I'm not taking that. That's not acceptable because I'm not, that's not what's going on here. Nobody is doping. Nobody is trying to cheat the system. Right.

There is no, i'm not even fighting you you don't get by punishing me you're trying to levy guilt on me you're trying to make me out to be some sort of uh uh you know uh guilty party as if i'm trying to be a cheat of some sort and it's like i'm not dealing i'm not taking that so how did it ultimately get resolved well ultimately what ended up happening is we had to go to arbitration. That was all that was really left to us because then they started trying to bring up, uh, uh, stuff from my past and then weigh that against me as well. And it's like, Whoa, dude, you guys weren't even around. And now you get to decide to add to the, to weight of weight of whatever punishment you want to levy against me based on things

that didn't involve you. Great. That's cute. So what were they talking about? They're talking about 2001. No, 2008. They went to 2008. Yeah.

That was the affliction card, right? And they tried to say, well, oh yeah, well this happened. So therefore, now they start talking about two years. Like you've got to be fucking kidding me. They start talking about suspending you for two years for a tainted supplement. Yes. Wow. And I'm just going, there's no way I wouldn't even accept six months. You think I'm going to take two years. And so we go and we inquire on the Arbor and I've done, I did an interview with the guy that we were dealing with through Skype. Uh, we've, we've been in touch.

It's just like at some point, everything turned and changed. Their tone changed. Even the original penalties they were looking to levy increased. New shit gets brought in. It's like they became a completely different animal as soon as there was the evidence of

contamination and that I wasn't willing to take punishment for it. I wasn't. What do you think their motivation is here? I think that they, and this is just my opinion.

I think the way you saw to looks at it and it's an easy way to go about it is that the more people they ding, the more effective they appear. It's their effect. Their efficacy is based on pun on punishments doled out, not necessarily not on lack of punishments at all. So do you think this is a psychological motivation by the people that are working there? So they arbitrarily get to decide how things go about, right?

There's not like a very strict protocol that they must follow for tainted supplements or for this or for that. No, there is actually quite a bit of leverage or there is leeway in terms of how they can enforce and what they can enforce. So it's subjective. There is subjectivity in it. They have a lot of discretion. There is some outlined elements of protocol, but there is no it is always this or it is always that. Right. And, you know, I didn't begrudge them for a period of ineligibility while you're going through the

process of finding out whether this is contamination or what have you, doing any testing. And that makes sense to me. That's fine. I understand that. If this guy supposedly has something in his system, well, let's figure out what it is. And once we have a better idea, then we can decide about whether you can go back into the pool or do this or do that, or if you're going to lever any punishments, makes sense to me. But in addition to that, then tacking on more shit in terms of my case, I was like, that's not acceptable. So we go, well, I guess the only thing left to us is to go to arbitration. And so my manager spoke with, was working through them to arbitration. And we said, OK, well, what is that going to take?

Well, that's going to cost more money out of my pocket. The arbitration process, these are guys that they're paid by USADA to do their arbitration. They work for them in a way, or they don't work under them directly, but they do get paid to be arbitrated. Somehow there's something – So they get contracted by USADA. Yes. And so that was like, I don't necessarily feel the most comfortable with that,

but I can also understand how it's not – there's probably not an easier way to go about it. But okay, I got it. Then when we – then we get notice back from USADA that we have to limit the scope of our argument. We're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what? You're going to tell us what we can and can't argue. In what way? How are they defining that? I don't remember what the definitions were exactly, but it was like, you can't, you know, you have to keep it within this boundary and this realm and this.

to keep it within this boundary and this realm and this and I'm like well you can't fucking try to say the levy this against me and then you stuff from my past and then tell me I can't argue my full case so they're limiting the amount that you could defend yourself is that we're saying basically they had they were limiting the the range of argument you could make what would the argument be that you would bring up that they would want to limit that's a good question I don't know exactly did bring up that they would want to limit? That's a good question. I don't know exactly. Did they define that?

No, they had definitions in the emails with back and forth with my manager. And he goes, well, fuck. Because we could argue about this is contamination and go from there. But it was something really potentially limiting, which was weird about how they put it you just don't remember what exactly i don't remember all the detail it's very detail oriented it's legalese and uh and then so we get to the point it's like well fuck well this doesn't even look like a very you know this might not even be a a useful way of trying to approach this thing and it got down to the wire to where, and we,

we kept pushing it back and pushing it back and, and saying like, you know, we, can we get an extension and, and to try and figure out how the hell do we approach this? And, and also like how,

how could we approach it without having to spend money on having lawyers get involved? I mean, that's the last thing you want to do is get to litigation or, you know, even arbitration. It's a legal process. It's complex. And it is, it's, there's a lot of, and lawyers love billable hours. Sure they do. And so it gets down to the wire essentially.

And we, I just sit back and I go, I won't accept any ruling if it's a punishment at all. I don't care what they say. I'll just be like, nah, nah, I don't, I'm not going to abide by it. You can't force me to do shit. And I guess we'll have to cross. So your position is that if you are accidentally taking a tainted supplement and also trace amounts that have absolutely zero effect on performance, there's nothing that you're doing by accidentally taking that, that in any way would help you. And that's a fact. That's a proven fact. Yes. So your position is you're doing by accidentally taking that that in any way would help you. And that's a fact.

That's a proven fact. Yes. So your position is you shouldn't be punished. Correct. I agree with you. And you're out of the view. I agree with you. Once the time that you've been out, here's the thing.

That's enough. Exactly. It's more than enough. You don't need to say, oh, well, if it took seven months to get the information that you needed, the data, right, to then clarify, okay, well, you're not at fault, to then say, oh, we'll suspend you for six months. But since that six months has already passed, it's like we didn't suspend you at all. It's like, no, motherfucker. When you look at the data, when you go and look at this case, it says suspended, you punished me which means i was guilty in some way you you said i'm guilty because that's how you got to punish me right it's not under investigation or you know after investigation yeah it's not exonerated after

no it's just no you still levied a punishment in there to say that look how we caught this guy and we punished him and i'm like i'm not i'm not I'm not down for that. And so oddly enough, so I was like on aerials or something like that. I said, I won't accept. I don't care what they say. I don't care what punishment they try to levy. I don't abide by it. I won't agree to it. And I'm done with them.

And someone from the arbitrator's office who we were dealing with calls us out of the blue and goes, so you still – sure you don't want to do this? I'm like, well – and my manager goes, well, they said that we have to limit the scope of argument to this and this and we can't – and then he goes, no, you don't. You can talk about – you can bring any argument you want. Who is saying this to you? The arbitrator's office. Okay. So who would initially come to you and said that you had to limit the scope of your argument? USADA. Okay, so USADA was attempting to establish some boundaries for your argument, but the people who were the actual arbitrators said that that's not true.

Right, that's not the case. They can't have, it doesn't, they can't force you to argue in a certain. Oh, okay. So is it possible that you saw it as lawyers? We're trying to, here's the thing I found about, about lawyers. Like,

yeah, for sure they're necessary and that's all well and good and you need them. But there's a reality. And this is something that I had to deal with recently in doing something with a friend through lawyers where they attached a bunch of shit to this deal that wasn't supposed to be in there. And he didn't even know it was in there. And then my lawyer's like, what the fuck is this? And so I contact him, what the fuck is this? And he's like, what the fuck is that? So he contacts his lawyers. What the fuck is this? And it turns out this is a common thing.

Lawyers, they literally say, we put this in to give you leverage. I don't think you necessarily want that, but we're looking out for your best interests. And so now you have a good negotiation point. If you just go in with what you want, then they're going to ask for more than that. And then you're not in a strong position because you can't ask for more after you've already established your initial position. Makes everything convoluted. They're gross. Yes. I hear you. But that's the world we Makes everything convoluted. They're gross. Yes, I hear you.

But that's the world we live in. My grandfather was a pretty fair lawyer. He was assistant attorney general of the state of Washington. He actually wanted me to get into law, of all things. But I'm like, eh, I think I'd rather beat out my brains. Yeah, it seems like, well, you haven't beaten him out. It's very impressive with your memory. Well, so we get to, my manager comes back to me and goes, hey, man, they just contacted me out of nowhere.

And they're like, if you want to do this, you can. And no, you can't. You can make the argument. There's no limiting in the scope of your argument or anything. Right. So then it's like, well, yeah, all right. I'll go for it. So you went to arbitration.

Yeah, because at the very least, I thought maybe I could have some sort of record down of what we talked about, what was discussed, the arguments made. So in the end, no matter how it came out, I could go, here's what's legit. You can make your own decisions from there. And so we go in. I brought my legal team. They had their lawyer come, who was the same guy we were dealing with throughout the entire process. And they made their argument and we made ours. And there are times where I'm sitting back and I go, they're making closing arguments, each lawyer's.

And I'm just sitting there listening to the USADA side going, man, he's just pushing, he's just moving the goalposts. How so? pushing, he's just moving the goalposts. He's, uh, how so? Well, it's just taking a certain element and then trying to, you know, use slippery slope arguments and moving the goalposts on things. He's just doing anything he can to use rhetoric instead of, uh, logos at this point, because, you know, they're lawyers and they're trying to make their case and trying to find impassioned responses.

When you're saying this, you know, consider the people who listen at home, don't really know your case. Don't know the scope of what the argument was. Well, okay, so it's like trying to say that find ways at which to move the goalposts in terms of – so like I said to you earlier, I keep batches of all the supplements that I take, especially when I'm in this program and especially after dealing with the clusterfuck that was California. And it's like, well, I didn't have anything that I could bring to you that I could fuck. So I'm like, this is never happening again. So I keep everything. They go and they test stuff and they find it. And I kept notes.

I kept this. And it's like, what more could I have done for you guys? Even if it doesn't matter if there's, let's say they were all third-party tested as well, I would still keep batches of the supplements. And any of the stuff I take is third-party tested. So what was the issue then? Well, it's just simply,

it's just they kept trying to say that I didn't do a good enough job, that did you use the, did you see this thing on supplement 411? It's like, that came out after the fact. And yes, I have seen that. In fact, I use all the resources that you provided, your GloboDro, your other supplement 411,

to check against ingredient lists, supplement names, company names, to make sure none of this shit is on the list so that I don't make that mistake. So I use the resources that you give me. I keep batches of my supplements so they can be tested if need be. I do what's available to keep from any issues. And yet they just kept moving the goalpost on that and trying to say that, well, but you didn't hire a psychic.

It's just that kind of shit. I'm like, well, how could this have been any better? And not to mention, I'm not fighting. Right. So at the end of the day, what were they looking for in arbitration? They wanted to levy a punishment against me and suspend me for years. And this is USADA. Yes.

So USADA ultimately, even though they knew that you took a tainted supplement that had no effect whatsoever on your performance right they still wanted to punish you for two years that seems stupid that just seems stupid now let me let me read jeff novitsky because novitsky texted me because i told him this was going to go down and uh his take is a little bit different than yours i don't imagine it isn't all right i'm not surprised that it is. And I told you what it was. I'll just read you what it says. He said he'll complain about the amount of time that went by with USADA process,

but he notified us of retirement right after the positive sample was collected, before positive was announced. So he was off in the wind for many months and not communicating with USADA. Big reason the case took so long to resolve. Two, his positive was from a tainted supplement, but he didn't do the number one thing. We advised UFC athletes on supplements. He didn't choose a supplement that was third-party certified as a banned substance-free, like Onnit supplements are.

as a banned substance-free like Onnit supplements are. There are literally hundreds of certified supplements out there and virtually ensures no issues for an athlete if they stick with those. One other point for Barnett, when he was unresponsive to case, he missed all of his deadlines to file for arbitration. He came to the table later and said he wanted to go to arbitration. USADA made an exclusion and let him, which ultimately led to his favorable ruling by arbitrator. Their reasoning was that they wanted to rule in favor of fairness to athlete.

Rules say they didn't have to after time to file expired. But they're saying it ruled favorably towards you, ultimately, at the end of the day. Yes, it ruled in our favor. Gobbly gook, this, that, the other. You definitely probably should have taken... It's just like he says that, oh, well, he retired and he was in the wind. You know what my in the wind was? It wasn't even that long. I was in Japan

for Rison with my athlete, Alyssa Garcia. It wasn't in the fucking wind. Sounds good, though. In the wind. In the wind. You in that motorcycle jacket. Just driving. Yeah, I'm dragging a coffin behind me like Django. Through the Nevada desert.

Somebody pulls you over. Got eight days growth on your face. Are you Josh Barnett? Some days. We're USADA. We're looking for you, bro. Can I? You piss in this cup for me?

I didn't bring a cup. Just use my pockets. Yeah, I was in Japan cup for me? I didn't bring a cup. Just. Yeah. I was in Japan at Ryzen. You know, I wasn't in the wind and they, so it takes. So they ruled in your favor. They, the arbitrator. And what did they say? This is the same guy that the arbitrator is the same guy that put together is he's in Icarus.

He produced Icarus, the movie on, on doping. He's, he's one of the major figures in terms of the world of anti-doping. So it's one of the guys who worked with Brian Fogle? The arbitrator? Brian Fogle was the guy who starred in Icarus. This guy is an arbitrator for WADA. Actually, why am I doing this? Jamie can handle this.

But it doesn't matter. So this guy has seen everything in terms of drug testing. They ruled in your favor. Yes. And he said he couldn't see any way that I could have done hardly a better job, that I was meticulous with my record keeping, that I did essentially

anything I could that was within the means of a normal person to do. How was it resolved at the end? It was a reprimand. That's it. Reprimand? Yeah. What is that?

What do they do? Richard H. Richard McLaren. McLaren OC Chief Arbitrator. Yes. Okay. So at the end of the day, after all this, they say they gave you a reprimand. What does that mean?

It just means like – Don't do that. Be careful. Yeah. Okay. That's it. But this took – But no punishment.

Right. So all that two-year shit from USADA was unwarranted. Right. Heavy-handed. Heavy-handed as hell. Junior Dos Santos went through that too, right? It started at six months and then by the time we they have both supplements tested then all of a sudden it starts getting weird

and you know this claim by nowitzki that we were out of no we were always in touch nowitzki doesn't work for usada i know and this is so what's kind of funny is nowitzki is such a public face on this kind of thing but when it comes to actually dealing with usada he's all he's hands up i mean he'll come and he'll he'll make sure to put something out there in any of the the sphere but in reality he ain't got a fucking thing to do with any of it okay but in his defense he's a ufc employee i know and it's inappropriate for him to have any influence whatsoever on the way they rule things. But that is – I think that's actually the proper thing for him to do. In a way.

But, I mean, it's just – the presentation is a bit of a misnomer, I think. Well, initially, he was responsible for the drug testing. Now he's – what is he? The president of athletes, safety and wellness. Fuck if I would know. They're running the performance institute. Yeah. I mean, what they're concentrating on now, and I'm speaking for Jeff and his behalf,

that I think they're concentrating more on encouraging fighters to train and fortify their body with nutrition correctly and giving them education on how to do this and that Jeff is at the forefront of that stuff and showing them how to avoid accidentally taking something. I guess where I'm coming with this is that he is not fully in the loop with what happened between me and USADA because he's not involved. Right. So some of what he's saying there is incorrect. And it's not, I don't blame him because he's not a part of it.

So is he misinformed? At the very least. Do you think that they're not being straightforward? It sounds to me like they wanted to punish you badly. They wanted to punish me badly, yes. Yeah, two years is a fucking crazy punishment. And also, when people get, do you remember when Nick Diaz was being interviewed by all these people, and there was that mean lady who works at the Nevada State Athletic Commission,

and she was grilling him. And I'm like, we're talking about pot here, you crazy lady. Like, what in the fuck are you doing? You're acting like you robbed a bank. Right. If he's not getting in the ring high, then leave him alone. Exactly. And I think he probably did a few times.

I think in the Gomi fight, he might have been high as fuck. He was like, bro, I'm bleeding. Oh, my God. Maybe I should choke him right now. He didn't give a shit in that fight. Jon Jones is going through this right now. I don't know where Jon Jones stands, but it's been pretty well established that at the very least, the numbers, if you look at the numbers when he was

tested um and you know i know a lot of people like to say that he's a cheater there's a lot of this going on right now look real clear the first test was proven that he took tainted dick pills okay that's proven it was uh actually so that got brought up to my attention as part of all this because, you know, USADA found it relevant. The difference between that first one, let's say, and I don't know about the second shit with John. I don't really follow close on this, but this came across my plate because he was taking like a liquid Cialis and it was from a company that sells SARMs and peptides and all that. So it was a company that also sells banned substances. Right. And so their argument was that, dude, you're buying or using shit from a place

full of illegal shit that you're not supposed to take. Definitely a dumb move. Definitely a dumb move. And you could also just get a goddamn prescription for Cialis, right? You don't need to take this funky shit you're getting off the internet. I imagine you could. The second one, what he took had such a minuscule trace amount that he tested negative, then he tested positive, then he tested negative again. And this is something that's supposed to stay in your system for months.

Right. So this is indicative of someone who's not taking something to get a performance-enhancing benefit from it, but rather someone who had something that was tainted. And these lab technicians are smart on this shit. Like the guy who saw the results from the first little batch of supplements we gave him, he had seen everything and then some under the sun and all different levels. And this guy knew what constituted contamination and what wasn't. He could tell. Right. Of course.

They can tell just by the numbers. Look, if you're taking trace amounts of anything, it's not going to do a damn thing to your body in terms of performance enhancing, but it is going to show up in these tests because these tests are incredibly thorough. Hey, Jamie, Google what's going on with John Jones' case because particularly after this weekend, it's very, very relevant. You know, I mean, with Brock Lesnar getting in there with DC, DC becoming the first light heavyweight to consecutively hold the light heavyweight championship

and the heavyweight championship, you know, and a spectacular fight by DC. But Jon Jones is always going to be there. Sure. I mean, you cannot – you can go on and on about the extracurricular woes of John Jones. Sure. His capabilities as an athlete, his talent, it's undeniable. Undeniable. Undeniable.

Look, whatever the fuck he took, dick pills, it's not making him a better fighter. He didn't knock DC out because of dick pills. That's crazy. No. It has to do with skill and talent beautiful left high kick that's what it was and he recognized a tendency you know dc knows he has you know uh but with this whole usada process it just became and it it drug on because you know we said to them i'm not going to take a punishment. And they said, we're not giving you any option on this.

And so that's – it's like there was this negotiation. So then it became what happens – one of the things that I've talked about when it comes to police officers is that when you have police officers and you have people that are trying to arrest, it becomes a game. And I don't mean a game in terms of it's bullshit. I mean it's a game in terms of one person is trying to win. And they're trying to get people and arrest them. And this is why people plant guns and plant drugs. Trying to win. They try to win.

And that's what killed me was that, in my opinion, USADA was trying to win. It was more important for them to win than it was for us to have a clean sport. This comes back to what we were talking about earlier when it comes to arguments and discussions. That people oftentimes are not really searching for the truth. They just want to be right. Yes. And I've had this argument about bureaucracies in general, right? And this goes to, this isn't just about, you know, not USADA and their bureaucratic elements. I mean, they're tight, like the government or other things. So you come and you say, oh, you fucked up. And then the bureaucracies go, oh shit, we didn't fuck up. And they're going to say, we didn't fuck up to the very – they'll take that to the very longest lever until either A, they'll scapegoat someone or B, they can figure out a way that they didn't.

Because looking – making a mistake on a bureaucratic level makes it seem like, okay, well, fuck. And here's the thing. If USADA says, oh, you're not –, you know, you're not going to get punished, then Tim Means and Yoel Romero go, uh. Why did I get punished? Or if USADA would say, oh, well, you know, that was a mistake. Well, if that was a mistake, well, then, hey, I got fucked on that mistake. You going to take care of me?

So no drug testing is bad but too much oversight is also bad i think that a clean sport is a-okay and the idea of the random testing and all is fine but you can't do it at the expense of the athletes in that we're in the administration of the testing that you're trying to blast them like these three brazilian guys that just got busted over contamination that they traced back to a compounding pharmacy i don't know what this is who got this is just recent uh three different guys in the ufc and they were all getting uh supplements from a compounding pharmacy and everything was traced back to it it almost seems like you shouldn't take any fucking supplements well that's the other thing it's

like do we are we not allowed to take anything? Anything at all? Nothing? No on it? What are supplements? What do they do? They help your performance. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Should you take no performance enhancing supplement? Should we take nothing? Should you just eat food? I mean, there's got to be someone out there that's just eating food. Well, there's food that will enhance your performance, too. Right. Like kangaroo meat that Frank Mir took.

You take some bad kangaroo meat. Oh, man. That kangaroo meat. Fuck Mir took. He takes some bad kangaroo meat. Oh man, that kangaroo meat. Fuck, he'd get a good pump on that. First of all, ain't nobody giving steroids to kangaroos. Okay? Kangaroos are fucking everywhere. Investigation identifies compounding pharmacies as a source of tainted supplements behind three

positive tests in the UFC. Junior Dos Santos, Almeida, and Antonio, and yeah, Minotauro. And here's the weird thing, so it comes all the way down to it, and then their highlight on this is, and Antonio and, yeah, Minotauro. And here's the weird thing. So it comes all the way down to it. And then their highlight on this is, and, you know, we gave them a suspension, but the time has already lapped, so they won't actually have to serve any time. It's like, but you just fucking suspended them nonetheless.

Yeah. You didn't have to do that. Right. So they took seven or eight months or whatever for this to get cleared up, and that's unfortunate. Junior tested positive for a diuretic. Is that correct? That's what it was.

Hydrochlor or something. I believe it's a diuretic, which is crazy because he's a fucking heavyweight. He's not losing any weight. And Junior's not on the high side of heavyweight. He's not like a 265 guy that's cutting weight to make the upper limit. He was just trying to keep those wrinkles out of his face. Just trying to look good, baby. That's right.

Does diuretics make you look good? Fuck, I don't know. I don't know. I thought it made you just shit yourself. It just dehydrates you, right? That too, yeah, yeah. It just pulls all the water out.

John Bones Jones, keep in mind, life is a journey, not a race. God's will for me to be there, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right, let's not forget I'm still the youngest guy in the top five

of heavyweight and light heavyweight. Yeah, uh-huh. He is young. What is that? What is unique mweight. Yeah. Uh-huh. He's young. What is that? What is unique mosaic? What is that? That's someone's account. Oh.

Is he responding to somebody? Yeah. He tweeted that a couple hours ago. Hmm. Up to a four-year suspension. Okay. Right now, he remains in provisional suspension awaiting the outcome of his situation with USADA after testing positive for steroids last July following the knockout win over Cormier.

Was it a steroid? Man, I couldn't tell you. John faces up to four-year suspension due to second violation of the UFC's anti-doping policy, but obviously the youngest side of every champion. But obviously, first of all, when it says second violation, the first violation was proven to be something tainted. So he's not – when you say violation i want i want to hear this guy took steroids he took steroids because he was trying to get a performance enhancing uh result from it suspend that guy yeah

i don't want to hear oh he got toothpastes from china and had fucking something in it you remember that too don't you wasn't that a fucking crazy story about the toothpaste that had some poison in it or something that they were selling in China yeah what was that some wild shit what was that toothpaste in China that poison in it yeah I'm vaguely remembering this I just said it just cuz it sounds stupid but it's real thing yeah yeah you just made it up yeah and all of a sudden it's true it's probably in the back of my memory somewhere that I just hear this. I hear what you're saying.

Toxic toothpaste made in China, found in the U.S. Look at it. Sure fresh. Sure fresh. Sure fresh. That's like some people that don't really understand English. Sure. What does that mean?

I don't know. Sure. Sure. Good. Very good. Sure. Sure fresh. I think it's a Chinese romanization of a Chinese word.

A store in Maine. They're trying to kill people in Maine God damn It's too green up there What was in it? Antifreeze Okay cool It's Maine Look at how cold it gets up there

Why wouldn't you need antifreeze? They're helping these people out No they were doing a good job They don't want their teeth falling out Freezing Shattering like glass Yeah A little propylene glycol

I'm 100% for testing Oh, propylene glycol? Yeah. A little propylene glycol? I'm 100% for testing. I'm 100% for them stopping people from taking performance-enhancing drugs. But this sounds very heavy-handed. It was just, and I had no problem with the system. And then the way it unfolded to me was just like, I don't need to be fighting multiple fronts when i'm just trying to do everything i can just to stay as in this as an athlete now when you first started i mean you won the ufc heavyweight title in 2001 two at 24 years old yeah youngest ever um when you won that man everybody was on some shit it was just it was the beginning of the

cleanup it was everywhere and and even then going into the Nevada state athletic commission previous to that, before Zufa bought the UFC, the idea of having giant fights in Vegas was fucking a win. It was, it was not a possibility. No, it was not going to happen.

So, and even then, like, uh, the testing back in 2002, that wasn't official per se. It was like it was like alistair over him when he fought brock lesnar fuck 2002 yeah how about when we saw the ream when he was when he was uber ream when he was uber ream when he fought brock lesnar jesus fucking christ damn comic book yeah if i i

mean there is not a goddamn drug testing agent alive that would have been grab him grab him hold him down he's clearly over 9 000 hold on to that guy like get the picture of him on the scale i mean that picture is amazing look at both of them yeah they're both jack boxes man but that one hold them down everybody would have been like hang on hang on what would a needle even fuck could you even get a needle in his vein? Dude, he's just like pings bends. He was so jacked This part of me just wishes he would leave and go to Japan and go right back to it. You know just fill him up I mean look everybody knew what the fuck it was back then I Mean it's interesting like Brock Lesnar being back Brock Lesnar is not asking for over him I mean, look, everybody knew what the fuck it was back then.

I mean, it's interesting, like, Brock Lesnar being back. Brock Lesnar's not asking for Overeem. Overeem was the last guy to really fuck him up, and he wants to fight DC. And Overeem's just not the same guy anymore, clearly. No, he's not. He does not perform at the same level as he does. He's still very good. He's still very dangerous. Here's the thing.

Even when he was a 205 pounder, right, and he had a tendency to gas out and be chinny to a degree, but he was always super technical, highly skilled. I don't think you could over him. Him and his brother both are actually very good fighters. And their struggles have never been a physical one for the most part, I think. You know, they've had, and that's a difficulty that is most common amongst fighters is the mental game of it. Well, we saw that with Ngannou this week.

Yeah. I didn't see the fight, but I heard it was one for the ages. It was one for the ages. Someone needed to let some lines loose in that thing and just like, okay, let's crank this up a bit. It was the worst heavyweight fight I've ever seen. It was the worst. Have you seen any some lions loosen that thing and just like, okay, let's crank this up a bit. It was the worst heavyweight fight I've ever seen. It was the worst. Have you seen any of mine before?

I'm a big fan. It came down to, it came down to the, it was the second lowest output fight ever. So they couldn't even make it the lowest output fight to be number one. No, they didn't even get to number one.

Number one was, They failed at failing. Jens Pulver versus Joe Hoke from like fucking UFC 13 or some shit. I don't even know what day that fight was. But that fight was number one with 23 or 22 strikes landed in three rounds. And this fight was number two with 23 strikes landed. That's weird. Dude this fight was number two with 23 strikes landed. That's weird. Dude, it was insane.

And then Overeem, I mean, Francis, go to Francis Ngannou's Instagram. He released a statement today, and his statement was essentially that he was over, he carried the fear. He said, I'm not proud of my last performance. I have carried my fear from the last fight to this one. I completely understand the frustration

and anger that has caused my fans, coaches, teammates, and family and friends. Weird that he would have fear from the last fight. We got fucking owned. But he got outwrestled. But he didn't know. He thought he was the man. And then he got owned. I won't let everyone down again.

All I can do now is prove myself and make you proud again. But look at this picture that he puts up. Yeah, him swinging on him. Him connecting. The one punch. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of funny. It should have been him with his head down. Francis, in the future, if you're going to post a humble shot, look humble.

This is like I'm owning him. I can't say that he doesn't legitimately. Maybe he is carrying some kind of fear from the last fight in terms of losing the result. There's a lot of mind fuck that can go into being a fighter. Yeah. But I would think that with. You've bounced back. You've been on both sides.

And, you know, the first fight back after a KO loss or after getting dominated, what is that feeling like? That's a good – yeah. I don't know. I've been at this shit for so long that for me it's just like, all right, that was then, this is now. Don't make the same mistakes. Yeah, you've experienced everything. You've been submitted.

You've been knocked out. You've knocked guys out. You've submitted guys. You've won the title. You've beaten some of the best guys in the world. You've had fantastic performances performances you'd have performances that frustrated you you've experienced it all yeah you've got i mean in your long career i mean from being the youngest ever heavyweight champion of the world ever to how old you now 40 40 dude

you've fucking seen it all you've literally seen all. How long do you think you can do? I don't know, but I'm planning to run it out. You do a lot more in Japan, bro. Keep going. I also have this bad car habit. Yeah. You need cash. Yeah.

You know, 455 Pontiacs don't get built and put into 75 Trans Ams for our Firebirds for free. Well, sometimes they do if you have the time that's the other thing how you're gonna work on your car when you're off all over the world doing all this shit right doing seminars and doing pro wrestling commentary all my fighters i had two guys just fight uh last this friday at cxf and burbank one of them defended his title aj bryant the other one shoamoto, won his fight. And for people who don't know, that's not lucrative to train fighters. I mean, at the very highest level, it's barely lucrative. Barely. Yeah.

This isn't a money thing. This is a passion project. And where are you training guys out of? What gym? The UFC gym in La Mirada. They let us use it for a fantastic feat. And we get use of all 55,000 square feet. Oh, that's nice.

And we also work a lot with Chad George. He has a gym called CMMA. And we'll go down there, too. Nice. Nice. We have a good camaraderie between the two groups. Where's La Mirada? Where's that at?

Like northern Orange County, I would say. Yeah. Is it like, what's the border of Orange County? It's like at that border. It's either southernmost LA County or northernmost Orange County. It's that kind of thing. Those UFC gyms are fucking badass. They do a great job.

They are fucking super nice. And plus they've been an opportunity for fighters. I think Cub and Bisping also have stakes in some yeah bj does as well i believe frankie edgar does frankie has one in toms river um yeah there's a there's quite a few of them now i mean they're all over the place yeah if you're looking for a place to hit the heavy bag and work out and lift weights some martial arts classes they often have cages and mats and all that and so we we use those facilities they've been really great to us. And yeah, with these kids that I work with, and they are pretty much kids,

it's just about trying to help people achieve, work towards the things that they want as an athlete, but also they're good people that I want to see them make the most out of their life. So I'm trying to be a person that can be a positive influence in terms of bringing philosophy and ethics to their life and helping them be good people. And to pass that kind of shit on, be the ripple in the water, the drop in the water that sends the ripples out that makes a positive effect on other folks.

Bro, are you a poet? What the fuck, man? I don't know, bro. It just fucking comes to me, man. You should put that on an Instagram picture and show your butt. Because that's what a lot of those girls do. They show their butt and then they have something about, don't let negativity into your life because the ripples of that negativity

can affect the people around you and you don't want that. Stay positive. Look at my ass. Look at that fucking peach. Pull up on them undies. Look at that peach. Yeah. I at that peach. Yeah.

I think that UFC gym is a brilliant thing. It's a brilliant move. You know, because if I'm like, if I see 24-Hour Fitness and it's right next to the UFC gym, I'm like, oh, fucking heavy bags, everything. The fights are on TV. Yes. Put that on. They also, at least the one in La Mirada, has like a whole little section that has Astro Turf down and all that with ladders that have been painted into it so you can do foot drills.

Oh, nice. And they've got sleds and tires and shit. I mean, so you can do other non-conventional workouts, kettlebells. So they have it really like a real strength and conditioning. Yes, yes. I mean, you can do really anything. They have a whole setup of TRXs and shit like that. Oh, shit.

Yeah. That's badass. Yeah, I mean, that's what you want from a gym i mean you go to a lot of gyms they just don't have that kind of stuff you know they have your standard stuff you know machines and shit you can lift with it's just not not quite good enough i agree and so this gives you that that full spectrum to to work in whatever ways you want to just about would you be interested in owning your own gym someday i think about it i do i wouldn't mind having my own gym but it's just it's such a i don't want to burden isn't the right word but there's just a lot of responsibility that comes with it you know the overhead of having a place and and creating a program uh and having people

manage and run those programs yeah and with me being as busy as I am, I wouldn't want to do anything half-ass. And I also don't want to commit to something and then not be able to put into it what I think is necessary. You obviously love teaching. I do. I do love to teach.

Yeah. I like, for me, it was such a big thing in my life. The people, not just in terms of athletics, but the people that mentored me and helped to mold and shape me and help give me the tools. And sometimes the kick in the ass is needed to move me along in life, to get me to where I am today. To get me not just in terms of what you would argue for as successful or not, but just to be the person that I am. what you would argue for as successful or not, but just to be the person that I am. And while far from perfect,

I can't think about exchanging bad moments for different moments in my life for the fear of that I wouldn't be who I am today. Nietzsche talks about eternal recurrence, and one of the ideas of that is that in your loneliest of loneliness of a demon showed up and it said you're going to live your life in every way as you ever have in every single aspect of it it's like well you have to you have to be okay with that you have to live a life that that that's that's reasonable that you would be fine with doing it all over

again doing it all over again if you're going to become if you're going to be Sisyphus, you better like push on a rock up a hill. Right. Whatever mistakes you've made, they have made you who you are right now. Correct. And as long as it's not catastrophic to the point where you've caused a loss of life or someone's devastated and destroyed someone else's life. You hope not.

You hope not. Yeah. I mean. You know, it's interesting thing. Like there's the concept of reincarnation. There's many concepts. One of them is one of the most haunting for some people is that you will live your life over again exactly the same way until you get it right. I actually heard Elio Gracie talk about this once.

That everything in your life, every mistake, every choice you make, if you do not do the correct thing, he believed that you would have to come back again and do it all over again exactly the same way. And this is his philosophy, the way he lived his life. That's terrifying for people. This idea that somehow or another you're going – almost like you're going to repeat high school. Sure. Start off – but here's my question. Man, that was a brutal period in my life. Mine too.

But here's my question. I think everybody's. And the people who it wasn't brutal for, those fucking people turned out to be losers. Right? Who do you know that was the fucking homecoming king? I mean, that's like a fucking Billy Joel song. Yeah. The king and the queen of the prom.

You know? It seems from an Italian restaurant. That's literally the premise of that song. I think it was a, it was a, a mortal song too. Yeah. From Norway.

Brenda and Eddie were the popular studies and the king and the queen of the prom. Running around with the car top down and the radio on. Nobody looked any finer. It was more of a hit at the parkway diner. And we never knew we could walk more than that out of life. Remember that?

I like Billy Joel, but I don't know it as well as you do. It's a good song. The idea of living your life over again is terrifying for people, though. The idea of dying alone is... But living over and over and over again for infinity. Sure. But why is that

when living right now is fine for most of us? I mean, unless you're depressed. Unless you're depressed and your life's a wreck. Living right now is like, okay, I'm alive. I'm here. I'm doing it. Sure. Why are you scared to do it over and over and over again forever?

It's a strange thing. There's something like the futility of it all. The idea that this is just a repeating cycle that's just going to haunt you forever. Well, that would – the idea that there would be nothing that you could do to make any effect to it. I mean – It's a mindfuck. I couldn't think of something in terms of like, uh, I want to do something that as a mental idea, as a, as a mind game, that if I live my life in a way that I could be okay with doing it all over again, just exactly the same way. And here's the other thing. Would you know that it's going to

happen like that? How could you? Well, there was a, uh, I got, I wish I could remember who it was. There was this philosopher who was saying that if you were given the ability to absolutely and utterly control your dreams in all aspects and elements of it. And so at first, most people would go to sleep and they would turn it into every fucking wonderful thing they've ever wanted. They would just be the ultimate winner at everything all the time, always. And then they would get tired of that. And then they would create chaos and catastrophe and, you know, probably make everything as horrible for themselves as they could possibly do. And as they're going through these cycles, ultimately, the one thing that you're going to end up wanting in the end is that you just

don't know what's going to happen at all. By knowing everything prior to it to it occurring it takes the want to experience it away yeah Cormac McCarthy wrote uh um how many people if they knew the path of their lives would still choose to live it oh right well, isn't that ultimately expressed by fighting? Like fighting is the ultimate expression of that because when you step into that cage, if it's just you and you're looking across the ring at another guy who's a legitimate top flight mixed martial artist and you really don't know. I have a theory about fighting and that fighting is actually a, not the only, but a great conduit into what I think of as the highest point of being as a human being,

that you can enter into this state that it's not a place that you can exist at all the time. Like it's just not possible. But when you reach it, it's as if you are so alive and you're at the peak of being at that moment. And even though it is brought on through being in the intensity and the stress of combat, it's as if every aspect of your being is charged and electric and living and being, but it's not a place that you could be at all the time. You would just be a maniac. It's not a place that human beings can exist in for more than maybe short periods of time. Hmm. Well, your senses have to be insanely heightened. The consequences of your actions are grave. The only thing that really is elevated past that is war. And one of the things that you find about war, and Sebastian Junger wrote about this in his book Tribe, is that the people that experience it have an incredibly difficult time adjusting to regular life. Sure. And they really miss it and want to go back to it because they never felt more alive.

I believe that, that war is a similar place. I think that when you are faced with death, that, that is a, a conduit to bringing you towards that highest point of, of being. And, uh, yeah, I suppose it's like that once you, you get past that point of there's, there is no fear at that, that level either. It is just an, it is a way, it's like that once you get past that point of there's no fear at that level either. It is just an existence. You don't consider. You don't think.

You don't think something isn't this or that. It just is. And it's a place that you can't be forever. It doesn't work that way but when you've been there and you're just out here dealing with petty fucking internet trolls and dumb shit and people doing stuff that cut their nose to spite their face and undermining this and yeah you know the fabric of our relationships for no good reason it's it's tough to sit and exist in this and go fuck fuck, you know, I, how do you get back to that other thing? This, this state of purity, this existence of where these, none of those things matter

anymore. I don't know if you can. I mean, you, you might have, I mean, look, we have a certain amount of time on this, on this planet in this life, right? You have a hundred years if everything goes great. You can't really expect to just live in that perfect state of both chaos and I guess being in the moment. Chaos and, I guess, being in the moment. There's something about something that's dangerous and intense and overwhelmingly filled with anticipation beforehand

and the preparation is all-consuming. There's very few things in life that are like these big moments, like a person stepping into a cage for a fight. And the consequences are so grave. It's just for your emotions, for your physical health, there's really nothing like it. To expect that you would find something else similar in life and to be able to achieve a similar state outside of that,

I don't think you ever will because I feel like part of what makes what you do and what all fighters do so intense and so incredibly enjoyable to watch is that we all know how much is on the line I think I believe I'm 100% in agreeance with you there and I think race car drivers and fighter pilots I think I believe I'm a hundred percent in with you there. And I think race car drivers and fighter pilots, I think people like that also likely experience that state of being as well. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. Fighter pilots. It has to be, you know, fighter pilots. Apparently I was reading some story about this, about wife swapping that they, uh, they're more inclined to have polyamorous

relationships really yeah and then they wife swap because the idea was that they know that their life easily could be wiped out any day at any time and the people they care about the most their wife or their girlfriend that they want other people to love them because they might not be there. Interesting. And that they would want the people they care about the most to love them. Because, yeah, they're thinking in a altruistic fashion of doing what they can, I suppose, to help this person that they care so much about continue to find joy in their life yeah because

of their their realization that what joy they may be able to derive from them specifically is is always on a thin line of not being there anymore that's fucking intense you love someone so much you want other people to fuck them because you're not going to be there how do i get on that list well it's the you're probably already on you just gotta ask i suppose it's the which comes back to the one thing that is i think poison in life which is to live a dull life i agree with a boring no risk taking no thrills no challenge no growth no knowledge no learning just this stagnant bullshit life that is so prevalent in our society i think it's one of the main problems with our world is that we have set up these really safe cities and safe societies and cultures which is wonderful it's great but also we we haven't given people the discipline or the structure or the framework for living a life that's going to satisfy your needs in terms of your biological needs, your psychological needs.

Yes. And people start determining that totally inane things are what their needs are. Well, it's because they're difficult to acquire, right? You think a Ferrari is going to make you happy because a Ferrari is hard to get. Sure, very. You look at it like, how much does it cost? Shit, if I just had that, man, I'd be balling.

I'd be driving around. He's so rad. I have this Ferrari. Yeah, I'd be balling. But then you get that Ferrari, you're like, this is just a car. Unless you just really love cars, you could love your Firebird and you appreciate it from a mechanical standpoint. You want to step back and look at it.

It's enjoyable. But if you think that fucking thing is going to make you happy, you're crazy. Not more happy than me being happy with who I am as a person and the life that I'm living. Impossible. The Firebird can't do that. Impossible. There is no item. Firebird can't do that.

There is no item. I have to sit back all the time and try to think for myself that you've – I love my library that I have, all the books within it. I love the cars that I have. I love the relationships that I have. But instead of the relationships, but just the things. And it's like these are all great things. But if I don't have them, I am still me. I still have everything that I need in this world.

I don't like to think about them being lost, destroyed. I certainly hate the idea of it being destroyed because even if it wasn't in my hands, I'd like them to still exist for others. But without them, I'm no different than who I am now. And I guess that's kind of a thinking of like the Stoics. You've been more defined by your accomplishments and your thinking and your philosophy. Well, there's lots of things that people obviously they couldn't know about me because it's not the kind of thing that is just my who I am. Right. And I don't need someone to know whether or not I'm smart or whether or not I know

this or whether or not I can do that. It's like, I'll do it when I need to do it. And I have to try and look to see that I have my own inner peace is based on my own self-knowledge and knowledge also that I am lacking, that I can be better, that I, and if I want to, I can choose to. And those days that I don't, it was a choice not to be better. It wasn't that I couldn't because even going and failing, like we talked about before, is a worthwhile endeavor

because it'll move you towards either A, eventually getting there or B, that it's not something that's going to be yours, but you know what it is and you know what it takes to get there. And that's a different perspective altogether. And that is where I feel like that's where I can be okay in this world and deal in. There's all kinds of things that can draw your focus and really eat at you and bother you.

And you're giving weight to these things and allowing them to have an effect on you. And that's natural. That's a normal thing. And it's easy to fall into. But if you can be okay with, all right, if all I'm left with is just me and what I have, if I no longer have anything, no more luxuries, no more this, no more that, can you be okay with that? What kind of life would you make of this? And I like to think the same one I have now. You can pick me up here, take all my shit away, throw me some other part of the world,

a third world country, and it will be jarring. It will be difficult. There'll be some lament, of course, but I will continue to be who I am. I will see what is necessary to communicate with others and to continue to propagate this that I'm trying to create in me. Yeah, I think we're all trying to navigate this really incredibly difficult thing, which is just your life, the emotions, your goals, your tasks, your relationships, your dreams and aspirations. All these things are just so complicated. And the whole idea of not knowing what the future holds is stressful, but it's also incredibly rewarding when things work out well. And even when they don't work out well, what's rewarding about that is you get the gift of knowing that you fucked up and you get the gift of the feeling of fucking up and the horrible, just the feeling of failure and to understand that that's fuel for you to regroup,

repackage your fucking thoughts and now move forward with the knowledge of the mistakes that you've made. And you're going to be a better person. How can you fuck up if you don't do anything? If you don't ever dare? You don't. If you just sit back and you try to lead the simplest, safest version of a life, it's not a life. It's not a life. And it's not a life I can really imagine that anyone can really be truly fulfilled living. And, you know, things are ultimately incredibly soft on us. Things are ultimately incredibly soft on us.

I mean, we have pressures in other ways, but ultimately, most of us are living quite comfortable lives with no immediate dangers and no real impetus to put stress on ourselves where it doesn't exist at times. Because let's just say you want to learn a new language. That's agitation in terms of forcing you to have to endure something. There's some suffering in that. And I believe in the Nietzschean concept of suffering creates growth. Life is suffering. Suffering doesn't have to be catastrophic. It doesn't have to be the sort of thing that is going to debilitate you. But that suffering is needed for you to continue to become better. For sure. With everything, with exercise, with learning, with everything, with even relationships, learning in relationships, all those uncomfortable feelings are how you learn.

Yes. Learning in relationships. I've always said to friends of mine, the first time they have a big blowout with something, they call me up and, oh, know, so-and-so said this, and I don't know how their dick ended up there and all this stuff. It's like, look, ultimately, yeah, no one wants to get into a row with someone, especially someone that you really care about. But if this is an important relationship, the only way it becomes a relationship that has that deeper lasting meaning and that really has any real depth to it at all is what you do when you guys are faced with adversity that shows you what relationship you have because when things are fun and easy anybody can be a part of it right we're

all just you know humping and drinking and going out and that's great fucking wonderful but when someone good once yeah it's pretty it's not As a single guy, I'm constantly looking for that opportunity. Ladies, if you're looking to hump and drink, Josh Binet's here. Hump and drink and drink and hump. It's mainly whiskey and coffee, but drinking and humping and muscle cars if you're into that. But when you get into these, all of a sudden adversity comes across your doorstep. How are you to handle that? And, you know, whether you're the person who brought it or you're the person who's enduring it from the other side.

And if you haven't experienced that in your life and also an experience in a relationship, man, you might not be ready. That's true. You might not have the tools. Yeah. You need to think about everything that you do that's difficult. Right. It gives you the tools to navigate difficult situations in the other aspects of your life agreed yeah it is the the stresses of having to to deal with a problem and how you handle that problem because there will never be any shortage

of problems of difficulties from from great to small and you your way of of mitigating those problems and dealing with them is so important. It determines how it works out for you. That's right, bitches. Josh Barnett dropping knowledge like advertised. Let's wrap this up. Josh, you're the man. Always a pleasure, brother.

We got to do this more often. We do it like once a year now. I would love to come in more often. I especially would love to even at some point like when you've got Brett in here and you've got Jordan and all that. You want to sit in? Talk on philosophy. We'll do something like that. I love the shit out of it. Let's do it. Josh Barnett, ladies and gentlemen.

Bye everybody.