The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #37 with Mark DellaGrotte

Episode Date: August 3, 2018

Joe sits down with Mark DellaGrotte, former Muay Thai champion in Thailand and owner and operator of the Sityodtong USA Branch in Somerville, MA.

do do do do do do five four three two one boom and we're live mark de la gratte what up most of the time if you and i are talking on a microphone it's when you're in the truck and i'm talking to you and you know and like right before a big fight people don't realize like you're the guy i talk to yeah man a lot of shit talking do a lot of shit talking. A lot of things we probably shouldn't say. Luckily, it doesn't make the broadcast. Well, when that one got leaked, when Aldo was about to fight Conor, and I said, he does not look good. I said, he looks nervous as fuck. I remember that. His body looks flat.

Soft and flat. Yeah, and then he got flatlined. Yeah, well, you were right. I was right in that regard. That did make program, didn't it? Well, people, what. I was right in that regard. That did make program, didn't it? Well, people, what happened was somebody recorded it. I was talking to you, I think, and I was talking to Bruce.

And it just, somebody just decided to be a little twat. Dude, I'm paranoid in that truck sometimes. You have to be now. I'm going to push the wrong fucking button, and I'm going to be talking shit to you or marin or something well that was one where um was uh it was interesting i was like oh okay well somebody's a fucking asshole like you're you're privy to this sort of inside banter to like to release that like and make it public i would never say that publicly so i was very upset that they did that yeah but it was honest. No, you're right. It was honest. He did look like shit.

But damn, he looked good last weekend. He looked unbelievable. I'm happy for him, man. I love Jeremy Stevens. I love Jeremy Stevens. Great guy. I mean, you know, we're cool with everybody. We work for the company.

You've got to get to know everybody. You've got to be cool with everybody. But it was good to see Jose Aldo back on top, man. He needed that bad, dude. Well, I'm always happy when someone wins with a liver shot. Because it's one of those weird punches. You'll see someone, you'll see two guys, and they exchange good shots to the body, and they seem like they have no effect.

Obviously they hurt, but they'll deal with it and keep fighting. And then every now and then you see, whap, and then, ah see you see that liver shot where the legs go out the body gives in it's like man that is crazy that we have this one area that sometimes works yep because sometimes it doesn't work right that's right a liver shot's weird man and it's delayed that's the funniest part about it there's like a split second delay where you're like i got this yeah just fold over if you saw that too like there was a body shot that that he threw he threw like a rear a right hand to the body and then the left lever shot so i think it's kind of like you know you you take the first punch you're like and then you brace and you got it and then you relax for a second and that's when your diaphragm and your liver starts vibrating. I wish it made sense.

Well, here it is right here. We can see it again. Weird video. Yeah, watch. He throws the right hand to the body first. What does he got me? There it is and there it is. Boom.

Double body shot. Yeah. And Jeremy's a banger too, man. That's a tough dude, man, to get dropped from a body shot. Yeah, and to make that face too. You can't hide it. It must hurt so bad. dude, man, to get dropped from a body shot. Yeah, and to make that face, too. You can't hide it. It must hurt so bad. Yeah, man.

Well, Kevin Ross is the only guy that I've ever seen hide it. Kevin Ross got, he was fighting in Bellator, not his last fight, but maybe the previous fight. And he got hit in the first round with a spinning back kick right in the liver. And he just went like this. Yeah. You can see he just kept moving. And he said he was in ultimate agony absolutely but he didn't show shit and his opponent didn't know I mean he really pulled it off he really pulled it off he figured out how to just he's so mentally strong though that guy crazy he just figured out how to suck it up and just deal with the

pain tough to do in kickboxing and boxing too because it's not like you can jump guard or stall or crap like yeah you can't hide that you know you get you get hit like that and you got to keep fighting especially kickboxing as opposed to muay thai you can't even really clinch right exactly especially with these new rules do you like that do you like no i'm glad you asked i don't like it it's not the art you know i think everything that's going on with these new rules, even when K-1 first came out and all that, it's kind of like what I consider a takeoff of Muay Thai. It's not Muay Thai, but they call it Muay Thai. It's not Muay Thai.

It's not the real art. K-1 was like the Japanese said, not enough brain damage. Not enough. You need more brain damage and I think they just sucked at the clinch because the Thais are so good at it and they wanted to give themselves a chance to actually compete

with like some of the best in the world so they said alright let's limit their weapons isn't that interesting because wouldn't you think that they would just learn the clinch

man I wish they would you know that's one of the most intricate parts of Muay Thai that's where all the gambling goes that's where all the

points come from you can punch the shit out of somebody and you get nowhere and then you start clenching and the knees start coming and the little turnovers and trips. The Thais love that shit, man. That's the real art. There's so much grappling involved in Thai boxing that's overlooked.

And to have rules that take away grappling, take away clinch work, makes no sense to me. It's half the art at that point. It's also a really underappreciated thing in terms of how they score it. We don't score the same way. If you're watching a tie fight, and if you were an American, you'd be like, ah, there's a bunch of hugging. Yeah, you got off a couple of knees, but the other guy hit him with some good right hands and a good jab. So funny you say that. Not really.

I just had this lesson with my students the other night. Let's talk about the rules, how to win the judges, so to say, you know, and the Dutch rules are different than the Thai rules and America is kind of fucked up and lost in between all of it. You know, like the Dutch consider like a hand block, like if you block with your hands like this, it's a block in Holland. The Thai is, that's not a block. That's a point. Like you get the point, you know? Really? Yeah, man, it's different. You have to block with your legs in Thai boxing in order to show that you've blocked

and nullified the attack. Really? And the points, like the punches score big in Holland, low kicks score big, and they mean shit to the Thais. You could punch the shit out of somebody for a full round and then just get two clean body kicks off.

And all the Thais are like, oh, hey, hey, you got that. The gambling starts going. So a lot of these foreigners go to Thailand and they think they're doing well and then just get two clean body kicks off. And all the Thais are like, oh, hey, hey, you got that. The gambling starts going. So a lot of these foreigners go to Thailand, and they think they're doing well, and then they lose decisions, and they wonder why. It's because they don't understand the rules. And vice versa, the Thais go to Holland, and they think they're doing well, and the guy's punching the shit out of them, and they kind of block in partially,

and then they lose decisions as well. So it's very different between the judging and the scoring between Dutch kickboxing and real Muay Thai. Very different. Yeah, I remember when Ramon Decker was fighting over in Thailand and one of the things that he shocked a lot of those guys was with his hand techniques. He was able to close the distance and just unleash a barrage of explosive knockout punches and take guys out where I think they've become more accustomed to that not happening.

Very true. They also become accustomed to not being assaulted in the first round. Very much so. I remember one of the fights I had early in my career in Thailand. I was so excited to be fighting at a big fair, big festival, fighting this big name Thai, and I threw an elbow in the first round. You know, because I had the opportunity to throw the elbow, I threw the elbow,

and I landed, and the guy wiped his, put his glove up to his head to see if he was bleeding, and he gave me that mean look and nodded, and it was game on from there. And I went back to the corner, and my Thai trainers were yelling at me, like, the fuck are you doing? You throw an elbow.

I was like, elbow's illegal, right? Yeah, but not first round. Now he angry you. I was like, what the fuck are you doing? You throw elbows. I was like, elbows are legal, right? Yeah, but not first round. Now he angry you. I was like, what the fuck? Now he angry you? Now he angry you. Thai-glish. Half Thai, half English.

Was that bad? Dude, it was. Apparently, I was just excited to be fighting in Thailand using elbows because a lot of times in the States, we can't use them and the rules are limited. I was in Thailand and it was a festival at night and the fucking lights are on and the Thais are betting and I was like, game on, let's go. Trainers were mad at me for throwing the elbow. And then there was other fights I had where they were like, oh, be careful for elbow.

This festival fight. No doctor here. Hospital far away. It's like, you guys are fucking my head all up. No doctor here. No doctor. I remember my trainer saying that. He's like, be careful for elbow.

I was like, thanks, fucking tips. Like, I know. Watch out for elbows. He's like, be careful for elbow. I was like, thanks, fucking tips. Like, I know, watch out for elbows. He's like, yeah, but no doctor here, not stadium. This festival. Hospital, Long Pier Ban, oh, really far. Dude, you got such a good Thai accent. Dude, my Thai-lish is on point, bro. Don't even go there.

Don't even go there. It's so funny. Don't make me do a ladyboy. With a heavy Boston accent. Dude, you ever hear Stitch Duran speak Thai? Stitch did some R&R in the service in Thailand. And man, you say like, That's like the proper, he's like,

He speaks like a Thai essay, dude. It's hilarious, dude. It's the funniest thing, man. How do you say thank you again? Yeah, if you roll the R's, it's like real, almost like aristocr kap. Kap kun krab. Kap kun. Yeah. If you roll the R's, it's like real, like almost like aristocrat. Like you stick out like a sore thumb if you're a white dude. But women don't say that.

They say kap kun krab. Krab. Yeah. Krab is like the feminine polite particle. So kap, like krab. It looks like K-R-U-P, but it's actually like kap. That's the male polite particle. And then everybody, ah, krab. They all stretch everything out. rup but it's actually the cup that's the the male play park and then and everybody

they all stretch everything out everything is like oh i go with you now yeah where you go mister like it's all it's just like i don't know it's the twang i guess yeah it's that thai twang they're the nicest people on earth they're sweet they're sweet they're so nice man not all of them it's the land of smiles but you'll find some fucking frowns here and there, I'll tell you that much, dude. Of course. Well, especially in the fight game. Yeah.

There's no getting around the fight game. You're going to have some mean motherfuckers. Very true. But the fighters are cool, though, man. I remember one of my first fights in Thailand, well, at least my Raja Domnern fight in 2003, I had breakfast with my opponent, and it was like- Really? Yeah, super chill. We weighed in butt naked next to each other which was awkward as fuck but

like do we really have to be naked and the tie is like yeah you got to get down bro and i was like i don't want to get naked i'm on weight don't worry i'll leave my underwear they were like they're like no underwear off that's how we do it at roger dominion stadium and i was like shit it's a butt naked way to my opponent went next door and had breakfast with him shooting the shit it's kind of cool but it is it is a, man. I remember the first time I went to Thailand, I came home and I was homesick and I was fucked up, dude. It felt weird. I was like, I felt like lonely and lost. And I had family here. Like, you know, I was, I was my currently my, my wife now I was with her at the time we weren't married at the time, but you know, I was,

I had family, I had friends, I was very much connected. You know, it was old school, Sicilian family, Boston base, you know, deep roots. And I just felt awkward and weird. I was like away from home. I was like homesick. You miss Thailand. I miss Thailand. My very first trip. I remember leaving the airport and I was driving and I had nothing but smiles for like a month

and a half straight. And I was leaving Logan airport in Boston and some truck driver cut me off and stuck his head out the window. I was like, fuck you, man. Gave me the finger. I was like, dude, chill. He wanted to get up and fight. And I was like, bro, I'll snap your neck, but I don't want to fight nobody.

I'm Buddha now. I like this vibe. I want to go back to Thailand. It was weird, man. It was definitely trippy, though. But something brought me something very deep and spiritual brought me to Thailand, brought me to the kingdom. That is the opposite way I feel about Boston.

When I go back to Boston, I see hostility. I got my smile. I'm like, ah, I remember this. Right. And people cut people off.

You fucking queer. Like, oh yeah. So this is where I grew up. It is awesome. And there's something, there's something unique about Boston people. I mean,

I told you, man, I've told this to people like, you know, when you got to get up at fucking 6 in the morning to shovel 17 inches of snow off your fucking frozen windshield and go to work and sit in traffic and beep and be angry at each other, like, it just makes a different person, you know? Well, it definitely makes a different sense of humor. For sure. You know, like, there's a certain connection that I have to those Northeast comedians.

Yeah. Guys like Bill Burr, like we, Bill and I did a show Wednesday night and it's like, whenever I'm around a guy from Boston, it's like, it's so obvious. It's like,

there's a certain, and there's also a certain respect for people's attention span. Very much. Because one of the good things about starting out in Boston was like, people didn't give a fuck. Like they don't have any time for your dilly dallying up there. You better come with the jokes. So true, man to LA I know was LA San Francisco I think at the time when I was younger when it's like some random sandwich shop I was like I'm hungry I was

like give me one of those joints right there and the guy like was taking his time and I was like bro I'm in a fucking rush and like and my buddy was like dude watch the f-bombs I was like what do you mean he's like just watch the f-bombs so the guy comes out with the sandwich and there was this little fucking peanut half sandwich. I go, what the fuck am I going to do with that? And he's like, I'm sorry, I was like, where's the other half? And he's like, that's it, sir.

And I was like, bro, I need another fucking sandwich. He's like, I'm going to have to charge you for it. And I was like, charge me, do whatever you got to do, bro. I'm fucking hungry. And like literally everybody behind me in line just out of dispersion and like left the store. buddy was like bro i can't take you anywhere around here really it was probably back then probably maybe 20 20 years old maybe yeah see that's a different mark de la grata and a different san francisco very true san francisco was like super calm

lefty back then now Now San Francisco's different. San Francisco is homeless people projectile shitting into the streets. Yeah, and really expensive real estate and tech dorts who speak in, they have a specific language in San Francisco. Really? Yeah, it's called upspeak. Is that a fact?

Yeah. This is how I describe it as a language, but tech people in San Francisco, and if you're a tech person in San Francisco and you do this, stop it. Because they do this. They talk to you. Like, here's the deal. Like, what we're trying to do with our startup. Stop it, please.

So the end of all, you know, the car, at the car. Yeah. When the tie, talk like that. That's the San Francisco twang. San Francisco's version of that is up speak. Fuck, dude.

I'd kill myself. Everything they do at the end goes up. So what we're trying to, and what it is, is like they're faking it. They're trying to, like when you want to pretend

to be intelligent or tech savvy or in, and it's a very left-wing thing, too. It's only people who are super liberal and super progressive. Like, you can't say, you couldn't talk like that and go, Donald Trump, although he's problematic, has some really good points in regards to business. Like, you couldn't say that. Bro, please stop. There was a lot of good combat sports come enough a lot of good uh combat sports come out of san francisco absolutely man think about like the

the history of like you got the gracie uh gracie baja contingent up there you know half gracie is got one of the the like northern california's awesome for martial arts. Dave Terrell, the Diaz brothers, obviously, Cesar Gracie. And then you had Alex Gong used to be up there. John, I was just going to say the Fairtex crew, that old school Fairtex crew, Alex Gong, Johnson on Fairtex. Did they ever catch the guy who killed him? Yeah, I think he killed himself, actually. No, no. Alex Gong got killed in a—someone did something and he went went out like someone would fuck with his car or something like that.

And he went outside and someone murdered him. The way I heard it was he was training in the gym and somebody sideswiped or hit his car or something. It was something like that. He ran down the street after him in a pair of fucking boxing gloves, which probably wasn't, you know, I mean, obviously you see some fucking savage running up to your window with a pair of boxing gloves on. So the guy shot him. Yeah. But I think the guy had some mental history and he was like, you know, he was unstable or something like that. And from what I understood, I thought the guy actually committed suicide.

There it is. Suspect. Yep. You're right. Suspect. I think he killed himself after. Kickboxer shooting, killed himself. Yeah.

Yeah. That was fucked up, man. What a waste, though, huh? Yeah. Guy crashed into his parked car, so he chafed after. There it is. Yeah. That was fucked up, man. What a waste, though, huh? Yeah, a guy crashed into his parked car, so he chafed after. There it is, yeah. I didn't even know. I just fucking thought I was making shit up for a minute there. Nah, man, that's sad, man.

He was a great fighter, man. I remember watching, like, remember, like, ISK, like, kickboxing back in the day when, like, the Fairtex crew from Chandler, Arizona? Yeah. You know, who was the big guy? Gagnon. Yeah. Johnson on Fairtex.

And Fairtex. Who was the other guy? What was the smaller guy, Ganyao? Yeah. Johnson on Fairtex and Fairtex. Who's the other guy? What was the smaller guy, too? I forget his name. I'm drawing a blank. But that whole Fairtex crew, man, back in the day, man, they just, they came from Thailand and just fucking threw up like this aluminum building in Chandler, Arizona in the desert and just started fucking implying people in to fucking learn Muay Thai.

And they were kicking ass, dude. They kicked everybody's ass back in the day, that ISK kickboxing scene. Well, when you started fighting, there were very few people that were, like, formally trained in Muay Thai in our area, in the Boston area. Very true. Like, we knew Rich Vassapoli. Oh, man, what a name. Remember him? He died in a triathlon, too, didn't he? Yeah. Got kicked in the head while he was swimming and drowning. Isn't that crazy?oli. Oh, man. What a name. Remember him? He died in a triathlon, too, didn't he?

Yeah. Got kicked in the head while he was swimming and drowned. Isn't that crazy? That is crazy, man. Of all the shit you did in your life, you fucking got kicked by a swimmer and drowned. Yeah. And he was like, you know, all, he was done fighting. He was in his 40s.

Yeah, exactly. He was chilling at the time. It's funny you say that, man, because back in the day, I thought about this coming out here. You know, I remember the first pair of Muay Thai shorts I saw. I was like, dude, that's funky. Those, those weird letters on the front leg. And it was, uh, I don't know if you remember a guy named, uh, Ed Bavlock. I think his name was Kim Akai. He's in Australia. He was a sit your tongue guy too. He went I remember that name. Yeah, man. He was like, you know, I remember back in the day he was one of the first guys in the area to have a pair of Muay Thai shorts and he was training

with Dana Rosenblatt, Joe Lake. Remember that whole crew? It's funny because we have similar backgrounds in martial arts in terms of Boston. It was the only legitimate. We never ran into each other back then. I think you were a little bit ahead of me at the time. I was probably on my way out too. When I was starting to train with Joe Lake,

I started training with Joe Lake when I was teaching in Revere. I was teaching at Nautilus Plus. Nautilus Plus. Yes. Dakota's family owned that joint. Yeah. So I was teaching Taekwondo there.

That's right. And Joe Lake was lifting weights over there. And Joe Lake came in. He saw we had heavy bags and the whole setup. And then he started talking to me and asking me questions. And we made a deal where he would teach me how to box and I would teach him how to kick. And so he came over and we started doing some, you know, some mitt work and doing some things. Then I started working with him and Dana Rosenblatt.

That's right. And Dana was only, he was in high school at the time. Yeah, I went to Malden Catholic with him. Yeah, I think I was 20 and I think Dana was 18. Yeah. Dana was 18 yeah 17 18 something like that began his career as a kickboxer that's right kickboxer and there was no money in it he was doing well with his hands so I convinced him to stop kickboxing and he convinced me to stop fighting and he went on to sell real estate yeah he does that now he's like well he had a really successful boxing career, too.

He stopped Terry Norris. That's right. Who's the guy who used to be the boxing coach? Howard Davis Jr. He stopped him. Remember him? He was the boxing coach at ATT. Yep.

I know exactly who you're talking about. He beat some good guys. He beat some real good fighters. He was a southpaw, too, wasn't he? Mm-hmm. Yeah. He's a tough kid. But he also came up you know one of the

things that i've said about uh one of the things that i learned from my kickboxing training was how dangerous it is to meathead spar and all we did was meathead back then that's we i mean it started off with like you know me and my brother with hockey helmets and hockey gloves and trying that out. And then little by little, it was like, all right, we'll get into a gym and start boxing. Yeah. Man, I remember the first time I went to a boxing gym in the Boston area, man. It was on. Back then, you went to a boxing gym.

And I remember literally my coach setting me up for sparring at a boxing club. He's like, all right, you realize you're the new guy. I was like, yeah. What does that mean? Like they all know each other. They don't know you. Like you got a big target on your back. And I remember like the night before like I would go spar,

it like felt like a fight. And I was like, dude, I'm in a fight. And I'd get to the gym and it was on, dude. Back then it was like, it was extremely unintelligent, you know, but that's, we were cavemen at the time. That's all we knew. I remember, you know, there were holes in the walls that like Rich Vassopoli's from people get knocked back into sheet rock. Yep.

Remember that? The sheet rock. Crazy, man. We didn't know any better though at the time. Well, I started, I knew Rich Vassopoli from Dana. I became friends with Dana and we started training together. And then we would sometimes train over at Rich's place. friends with Dana and we started training together and then we would sometimes train over at Rich's place and that was when I got introduced into Muay Thai because one of Dana's friends had gone to

Thailand and he had done some training over there and come back and and that's when I realized like how effective leg kicks were like I'd never been leg kicked before except by accident yeah and then once I realized like shins to thigh like what how much damage that does and how he there was two Revelations that happened to me one was how easy it was for me to get punched in the face That was when I from a traditional martial arts background like one dough. Yeah, I know is so Delusional because I started to often take one dough as well, too You couldn't punch to the face So you had a very distorted perception of what you could get away with in a fight where there was no rules

You just had this real and so I had the same reality check. Yeah, so Boxing alone was not good kickboxing was better because I could create some distance But it was still way easier than I liked to get punched in the face but then Muay Thai was a big one because the moment you take that first leg kick and you feel the thud and you're like oh shit this is that easy it's that easy to diminish me like almost instantaneously you're diminished i feel it as you're talking about it i took a low kick from peter arts in thailand no and oddly enough another trip was uh Hizzo. Oh, no. Bro, I'm telling you, I thought my femur fucking cracked in half.

Never felt pain like that before. From Peter or from Pedro? Both at different times. Pedro's the scariest guy I've ever seen kick a bag. I've never seen anybody kick a bag so hard. I agree, man. I trained with him a little bit in Thailand back in the day. We used to train at a gym called ISS, which was like a takeoff of like Sittiatong.

We sold some fighters and some trainers to a friend of Sittiatong's. And we would train on the roof of this building on like Sukhumvit Highway in like the sun with like a canopy like above us. It was pretty rough. But Peter Ertz was there training at the time and Pedro Hizzo came through there. And I mean, I was a lot smaller than them, obviously. But, dude. Why did you spar with them? They're heavyweights.

Because I'm retarded, dude. Fucking stupid. Because it was the opportunity, man. They're like, oh, we need guys. I was actually helping someone else, another one of my stablemates get ready. And he just happened to be there. And he's like, oh, man, let's move around a little bit. And I was like, this is probably not a good idea.

But it's an honor. You know what I mean? So I'm partially proud of getting kicked in the leg by those guys. But I probably shouldn't have done that. Dude, what's worse, though, nowadays that you see is the calf kicks. More damage from those, man. I'm telling you. There's no meat down there.

Dude, I'll take the kicks all day long on the thigh now, man. Those tender area. Like, I remember losing a fight in thailand i didn't really have an extensive career as a fighter but i did have some quality fights and they were very that were valuable lessons to me and i remember i was blocking wrong you know the whole thing every time he low kicked i would block and i would take it right where the calf kick goes like on the low part of the shin and i was pointing my toes down it's always controversy of toes down toes up i always teach toes up to flex the shin muscle, to flex the muscle around the shin bone.

And I was blocking wrong. And I'll never forget that, man. I was bedridden from blocking kicks the wrong way. And it was that same area where there's, like you said, there's no- How long were you bedridden for? Two weeks, probably. I remember like trying to go to like, it was in Thailand. I came back from Thailand.

Dude, it was a rough flight. Like it was awesome great lots of pain medication for that flight but uh i remember literally like after some of the fights like that i've had you know i was literally bedridden like couldn't go to like family barbecues and shit like just like dude i can't get up well it's one of those kicks in the ufc that we've seen emerge over the last few years and i always give credit to benson henderson for being the first guy to start doing it. It's funny you say that because I threw a layup to Anik like the last show. And I was like, but maybe we might. And Anik's like, yeah, I'm not mentioning that name.

Benson Henderson? You haven't mentioned Benson? No, I mean, you know, for. Because he's over in Bellator now? Correct. I mean, it is what it is. That's crazy. That's so crazy. J.A so crazy you gotta give it up to

dude i said it i said man you know just a quick tip like a little fun fact you know benson henderson's a guy that really kicked that off you know for lack of a better term and he's like yeah copy that i was like yeah he's like i'm not gonna mention that name i was like all right cool respect i get it i get it you gotta do what you gotta do but he did in this world he was exactly we gotta eat you know he was the first though but he didn't have the same effectiveness for whatever reason that these guys do now yeah um there's there's guys now that are doing it where you see like one kick in the guy's fucked yep absolutely yeah and it's such a lower risk for the takedown too because you just you're not traveling that far you know the higher you kick the more risk for the takedown it too, because you're not traveling that far. The higher you kick, the more risk for the takedown.

It just seems awful. The legs just immediately stop working right. I've had a few of my athletes suffer some serious trauma from those kicks and fights, man. It's not. And you can't really prep for those. You really can't. It's just all about managing distance, controlling the range, because you can't really check it. It's too low to check.

And you can't condition it. No, not at all. There's nothing to really do with it other than just like i said you got to manage distance properly so you just either weigh in or weigh out but in that middle way like you get kicked like that man ouchy what are your thoughts on this robert whittaker kick i mean i call it the robert whittaker kick because yoel romero fucked him up with it in their first fight, that sidekick to the knee. I'll refer to it as the John Jones. John Jones, Winkle John.

It's actually illegal in some commissions, right? Is it legal? I think it's illegal. I don't know. It's illegal in some. Some commissions don't allow it because of the danger of attacking the joint. I have a hard time accepting that because it's okay to attack your fucking face. Why is it okay for me to kick you in the face, but it's not okay for me to kick you in the knee? That doesn't make any sense. Well, they say that, you know, and even in Thai boxing too, you're not supposed to deliberately attack the joint.

Yeah. John is a master at it. It's actually in Jeet Kune Do on the Out in Philosophy of Bruce Lee. I believe they call it like a, it's a Kung Fu kick. It's called a dum tech, I believe. Well, the way Winkle John started teaching it and, you know and the way his students started doing it was the oblique style. Yes. But then they started doing that sidekick style, too.

That oblique style is very interesting. Yeah. That's my face in there. I think that, in my opinion, it's a super, super effective technique. And to take it out doesn't make any sense to me if you still allow heel hooks and you still allow, I mean, especially since you allow kicks to the fucking head. Yeah, true. I'm a fan of the kick. I'm not against it.

I appreciate it. One of the things I tell fighters all the time is that if you're going to do anything, if you're going to kick me, if you're going to punch me, if you're going to try to take me down, anything, the first thing you need to do is take that step with that lead leg. So if you, and this is something Bruce Lee talked about in his art and philosophy, but it's always disruption, disrupting that lead leg, stopping that lead leg. And the Thais use it all the time. A lot of times, you know, that teep, the front kick, they teep the leg a lot. It's not always taught, like a lot of people overlook it, but I'm a huge fan of attacking that front leg, like teeping the front leg or side kicking the front leg. So the first thing they need to do to close distance is take that step well anything also to create another variable that the fighter has to think about as they're moving in you know anything

that stops them like the worst thing you could ever do with a fighter is give them something that's real clear and easy to plan for yeah you do the same technique over and over again he can time it you know the same predictable series of movements. He can time it. That's why a guy like Dominic Cruz is so difficult to deal with because Dominic, like good luck predicting that. He starts shuffling his feet. He's swinging

from the hips. That's actually a good impression. Oh, he's so awkward. He is, man, but he makes it work for him. The key thing with him, too, and that it's difficult to do that oblique kick or that front stop kick is the lateral movement. If you're going straight in all the time and you're walking straight into that, you're going to be susceptible. Dominic's always stepping off to the side. Whether he's a lefty or a righty, he's always creating an angle, which is huge in combat.

You know who does that oblique kick fucking better than anybody? Lorenz Larkin. Yes. Lorenz Larkin throws that shit to the body like a sidekick it sends dudes flying remember when he fought neil magning yes i do i was like what dude he's a stud that guy he's clean i watched him warm up i think he fought uh in the boston show i think at the time i was training yeah look at this look how he throws that shit to the body dude he's a stud man i you know i i man. I don't know why he wasn't as

successful as he could have been or should have been. Well, here's what happened. He went over to Bellator and he immediately fought Lima. Lima's a fucking monster. He loses a decision to Lima. Then he gets into a slug fest with Paul motherfucking Daly, who might have

the best left hook the world's ever known for MMA. I mean, you don't want to take away boxers. But that best left hook the world's ever known. Danger. For MMA. Yes. I mean, you don't want to take away boxers. But that fucking left hook he's got is just insane. Dude, I met him back in the day. We used to, the first time I went over to London, we did a show called Cage Rage. And I took Jorge Rivera over there.

Great fights over at Cage Rage. Yeah, man, it was awesome. And Paul Daly, Michael Bisping, Anderson Silva. Anderson Silva. We played that the other day. Did you really? Because Jorge was just teeing off on him from the clinch. Bro.

And Anderson was just taking it on the chin. Want to hear a funny story? Yeah. I see Anderson. All I can see is like, George has got his back to me. Jorge has got his back to me. And so they're pummeling and they're in the center of the cage. And they're kind of in a tie clinch.

And George is throwing vicious uppercuts. Vicious uppercuts and overhands and uppercuts. And he was a knockout striker. He was, man. He had thunder in his hands and he's throwing like these big bombs over the top, everything. And all I can see because George's back's to me, I can't see Anderson's face. All I can see is his head bobbling, you know, taking the hits. I'm like, yeah, yeah, go, go, go.

And then over George's shoulder, I see Anderson's face and he's laughing at George. I'm like, fuck. And then he just blitzed him. How did he do that roll with them slightly like what did he do dude i think it's it's all a matter of like you know using your shoulders to protect impact you know shrugging so to say the first first thing is bite the first line of defense bite down second line of defense brace your neck you know and he just dude i mean he's got a fucking pumpkin head he's got a big dome dude well i mean but you stop and think about later in his career he couldn't take those kind of shots yeah they add up after a while like this but back in the day man i remember coming into that you know i had followed muay thai i'd followed shoot box i'd follow you know pele those

guys so i knew anderson silva a lot of people like oh is this guy anderson silva he's coming over a lot of people didn't know him so i knew what we were getting into i knew what type of fight it was but the the funny thing is when he came to the ufc remember he debuted i was there at the hot rock at the joint against chris leaving and everybody's like oh dude the bets like i was like i saw the odds at like the mandolin i was like dude i'm all over this what was the bet it was just something crazy i forget at the time but like it was they had lieben like like being being the favorite. I was like, dude, nobody knows him. Oh, my God. I knew him.

Yeah, I knew him too, man. I remember during the promo, one of the things I said is, you got to be ready for this guy. This is a different animal you're experiencing. Same with Rich Franklin, man. Rich is my boy. Love you, Rich. But I bet the fucking house on that. And I did really well because the odds would just say everybody thought Rich was just just gonna steamroll him you know well particularly because rich was a stand-up fighter

primarily and he had a ground game and he was on top at the time i mean he was he was way on top but anderson was just on a whole different level coming into the to mix martial arts coming into the ufc he's just on a whole different level especially the style that chris lieben had his style was so perfectly tailored exactly walk forward throw bombs Anderson's like a smooth retreating defensive fighter these came from Thailand pretty cool shipped over pretty dope right yeah they are Chinese I believe but yeah they're not tired they're more and more of a China more of a Chinese influence no they are dope man thailand was sick huh loved it man

yeah man i love it cage cage rage was an interesting place because there was a that was a wild west of fights yeah remember when lee murray fought anderson silva yep i do you know they almost got into a brawl at the weigh-ins dude lee murray for apparently like when i started going over there they were like i'll leave my i was like everybody's a gangster everybody's a fucking no no no no no no no no no this motherfucker is real gangster like he used to deliver like ticket sales like money from ticket sales and like a black like leather like duffel bag just stacked with fucking pounds i'm just like who is this guy and the promoters uh dave and andy i think at the time, were like, no, Mike, he's a legit gangster. And I was like, whoa.

Do you remember when he got stabbed in the heart in a knife fight and then was training six weeks later? I do. I do remember that. I don't recall details, but I do remember something to that effect. London Shoe Fighters, our good buddy Marius, was training at 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu. He came to L.A. to learn Jiu-Jitsu,

and he was one of the head guys over at London Shoe Fighter. So I got to get in with those guys. I'm familiar with the camp. Before all that shit was going on. And he was telling me about Lee Murray like way early, like back in 2000. So it was way early,

way back in the early days. It's so funny too because somebody brought it to my attention. Like, dude, did you see Lee Murray's fucking palace in morocco like he took he took the money and ran bro he made it he made it poster dude listen it's a mural the side it's like a 30 by 30 foot fucking mural uh something like on his wall and and he's putting the armbar on george rivera yeah and on the back of george's, there's a big sit your tongue.com. I'm like, fuck.

The only time I didn't want the plug. Well, he caught him in a triangle, right? Was it a triangle? Yeah, a triangle. That came on. That was unexpected. But it was tough, man. George was a very emotional fighter.

He had a rough upbringing with his family. He's very connected to his family. was it was a roller coaster working with that dude man but he was my first man you never forget your first right yeah he was a great dude man he had talent that's he sure did man he did well man if you go back and look like he fought like the who's who's of like the ufc like that everybody he fought was legit he had he had there was never a dull moment of any fights that george had you know he had a good run for a while there it was the early days dude i remember we were in uh when we first started doing just that's funny there's another there's another picture it's a weird it's a weird mural too

because this guy like go large on that again yeah there's another one the proportions are off yeah so whoever did it was kind of- Horrible artist. Kind of a shit artist. He might have actually done that himself. But I love- He might have actually fucking had someone come in and put some numbers up and fucking paint by numbers. The old UFC logo.

He's got the Mandalay Bay logo. That is hilarious. See, it's got him getting him in the triangle. But look at the one when he's flexing. That's not even the same dude like look they added all this extra meat to his lats and his lower triceps area i've seen another one too he might have a few in his fucking house of him murals of himself looking so ridiculous what is the one mirror why why one image of the two of them clinching like what look at that how bizarre like why put that picture in?

His quads are yoked up, though. Moroccan dude. He's like, look, I'm a big fan of clinch. We put the clinch in. I want the Mandalay Bay scale. That's hilarious. You, I make your arms bigger. And then when you get him in a triangle,

I make you tan. It's like he's got different skin tone. I know. I was just going to say, he's not even the same tan he's a different guy that's hilarious yeah is that is that his place so he's still in the pokey for people who don't know lee murray was a part of the one of the biggest armed robberies i think the biggest in the history of the uk yeah huge money they made away with millions and millions of dollars yeah and some of it's still millions. Millions of pounds, I think. Yeah. Do the trend, you know.

Yeah. There he is. There you go. He would go out with a fucking mask on like Hannibal Lecter. Yeah. I remember that walk. 53 million pounds. Imagine that.

Pounds. 53. What's the conversion on that, Jamie? That's ridiculous money. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. It's hard to tell. Like, at the time, we would have to go back in time.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Figure out what it was. But a fuckload. That's a lot of money. Yeah. And I think a lot of it is still missing but yeah they had like ninja masks on they were dressed like they're in that movie heat how did they i thought there was no extradition like from morocco that's why he fled they ended up extraditing him i don't know what happened but yeah i thought that too wasn't that where bader hari went to yeah ir Hari was like, fuck this, I'm going to Morocco, son.

Come catch me now. But they always want to wind up leaving, so Badr Hari, he did his time. He went over, came back. Badr Hari got arrested for stomping a man's shin in half. There was some sort of a dispute in a nightclub, and Badr Hari does not play. There's a video of him walking into a hotel, and the hotel guy says something stupid to him, so he goes behind the counter and smacks him in the face. Imagine that guy.

It's my hotel. He's a fucking giant, too. He's like 6'5", world heavyweight kickboxing champion, and a ferocious, terrifying man who fucks up grown-ass people. Yeah, here's the video. Yeah, I don't know what the guy said, but Butter Hart was like, what? Excuse me? What the fuck did you just say?

It just goes behind the counter. You probably said some shit like, welcome to the Marriott. Yeah. We're going to have to see a credit card. It's like, no, this is going to be. Look, he gets right behind the counter. Look at this fuck. He smacks him in the back of the head.

Yeah. The way he did it, it's like super dangerous. Super scary looking too. He stalks him, walks him down, staring at him. And he smacked him very dismissively. He wasn't worried about the counter. Exactly. He smacked him like a little kid in the back of the head.

He hit him with the tips of his fingers. He was just like, hey, hey, who the fuck are you talking to? Asian, man. You've got to pick and choose your battles wisely, man. If I saw Badahari walking towards me and like, Hello, sir. How can I help you? Yeah, what may I do for you?

Credit card? That's not necessary. That's ridiculous. Your suite is ready. Can I get your bags? Yeah, champagne will be brought up to the room. Oh, he's Muslim. He probably doesn't drink, right?

No, probably not. I don't know. He's a beast, man. His coffee's good. He's supposed to be on his't drink, right? No, probably not. I don't know. He's a beast, man. His coffee's good. He's supposed to be on his way back, right? He fought Rico Verhoeven and he broke his arm in some freak incident in the first round. He's breaking

shin bones, breaking arms. I think he broke his arm. He fought Rico and I think he was blocking a kick and his arm just broke. Nice. And he realized that somewhere in the middle of the round, he's like, we've got to stop. He's just like, this is broken. Who just broke the arm recently during a fight? Was it Paul Felder?

Yeah, Felder did with the spinning backfist. I saw it coming, man. That fucking spinning backfist. Dude, you always read the spin kicks. No matter how many angles I have in that fucking truck, no matter what I'm looking at, as much experience as I have, you read the spin shit. You see it coming a mile away. Is it just because you have so much experience with the spin kicks? That was my shit.

Dude, that was your shit. But you see it. A lot of times you're like, he's setting up that spin. He's setting up the spin. Well, guys load up their hips. That was my number one technique from when I was fighting was spinning back kick to the body. Yeah.

I just knew that it was such a short amount of time that I needed to deliver it. And if you were in range and I hit you, you're fucksville. So I knew there was just like this. We've, we've laughed about this before. Cause I tell you like, I've never held for a kick as hard as yours. And I was like, ah, come on, dude. Don't honeydick me. You bullshit me, bro.

It's not fun holding pads for you. There's times like where you're texting me and I'm just like, fuck, fuck. Don't return the text. Don't go, don't go to syndicate. I don't go to performance institute and hold pads for Joe,

dude. I remember one time I held pads for you. And, uh, I remember literally like I couldn't grip a coffee mug to like drink. My forearms was so trash. I remember that night pushing talk back buttons on the truck at the truck. And I was like fatigued.

Just my fingers wouldn't function, bro. I'm telling you no bullshit. I've held for a lot of guys. I've held for a lot of fighters, a lot of big guys, small guys. I've never held even that's a round kick.

That's not even some spin shit that you do. Like just the, the basic tie round kick, bro. Nasty, nasty, nasty. You did it on that machine too. Didn't you? What were the numbers on it kick. Bro. Nasty. Nasty. Nasty. You did it on that machine, too, didn't you?

What were the numbers on it? Something silly like. Well, there's a guy who's figured out how to beat my number. Really? Yeah. Yeah. A guy at the Performance Institute. I got 152,000 and the dude got 188,000. And what he realizes, if you hit it with the instep, the number's larger than if you hit it with the in step see the numbers larger

Yeah, I see it with the shin. I got to hit it with the instant I'm healing a slight meniscus tear that I got when I was doing it with Joe Schilling with no warm-up wearing jeans I was fucking asshole at 50 years old full blast kick no war Yeah, that's that dick measuring testosterone like what? We're hanging out. We're having a good time ande shilling's here and he's kicking that thing game on yeah and he got some pretty good numbers you know he was he was smashing it so he's a he's a mean dude i love that dude i love that he's a sweetheart though man you know he's he's such a cool guy dude yeah he's fucking terrifying well i was i was talking to someone about him and they were saying that he's

like one of the most risk-taking elite fighters you'll ever see. Like he's a real elite kickboxer. But he's been knocked out before and stopped before just because he's so – he's not risk-averse. He'll take big risks. But it's one of the reasons why he's so fucking exciting. Yep, exactly. I was just going to say the same thing. That's what the fans want to see, man.

They don't want to see conservatives trying to, he's a fan favorite for sure. You can't stop crazy. Like that, that whole way of looking at things and his whole motto. That's why I like the, you know, the bonus, the bonuses with the UFC and all that,

you know, Dana putting that together. You know, I remember back in the day, like one of the early fighter meetings are like, you know, we do the weigh-ins and then Dana would be like, all right,

fighters only backstage. You know, they do fighters only, no coaches, no corners. And Dana's like, yeah, you know, game plan, you know, strategy, fuck all thatins and then Dana would be like, all right, fighters only backstage. You know, they do fighters only. No coaches, no corners. And Dana's like, yeah, you know, game plan, you know, strategy, fuck all that. Just go for it. Like, you want to get paid? Go.

And one of the examples he would use is Chris Lytle. Remember Chris Lytle? Like, he had like a losing record in the UFC, but he was just went for it every time and would bonus all the time, you know? I wouldn't give that speech. I'd give a very different speech. What would your speech consist of? Fight your best fight. Fight the way you're supposed to fight.

That was the message, but the idea was don't leave it out there. Don't be conservative. You can leave it out there if you want. Your opponent might not. This is the thing. I don't think – fighting is very important to me. It means a lot. It means a lot because I used to do it. It means a lot because I used to do it.

It means a lot because I love to watch it. It means a lot because I'm very deeply entrenched in the history and the significance of it and what it means. And for me, fighting should always be done at its best. And what that means is you should always do what's the right thing to do in the situation. Like if you're, you know, you could break it down with individual arts, right?

If you're doing jujitsu, there's a correct way to do an arm bar counter, right? Don't do the incorrect way because the fans want to see it. That doesn't make any sense to me. If there's an exciting way to get out of an arm bar that's not the right way to do it, but the fans like it. Not the pick them up and slam them technique. Well, the pick them up and slam them works if you have to. But I'm saying just as a rough example, if there was a way to defend an arm bar that wasn't the correct way to do it but the fans liked it more, don't do that.

Don't do that. You want to fight like a maestro. You want to fight like a virtuoso. You want to fight like Mighty Mouse. That's what I tell everybody. Mighty Mouse has had moments in his career like the Ian McCall fight is a good example where he also had a full-time

job, wasn't dedicated the way he should be, and got into a brawl and Ian took his back, wound up pounding him. Mighty Mouse had vertigo after that fight. He was really fucked up and then quit his job. Realized I have to go full time. I have to

dedicate myself to this full time. And when he did that, then under the tutelage of Matt Hume, he became the Mighty Mouse we see now. But in my opinion, one of the things that sets him apart from everybody else is that he's not running away from you and not

getting hit he's running at you and not getting hit I mean he's coming straight forward and then cutting angles and doing things to you that you didn't anticipate and he's not there for the counters yeah so he's fighting correctly seamless too yeah and it's incredibly exciting and that was one of the the criticisms of him Really early on in his reign was that he wasn't finishing guys and then he knocked out Joseph Benavidez and then he started finishing guys in the final seconds of the round, right? You know, I mean he's he's just a monster man. Yes, man. He's a fucking monster, but he fights correctly I would say don't find all no disrespect to Chris Lytle, who I love.

He's a great fighter. I was just watching his fight against Brian Foster. He was so skilled. People forgot how good Chris Lytle was. Won that fight with a leg lock. He's known as a brawler. People forget. He fucking spun around, got that leg, and snatched it out and extended it

and really fucked Brian's leg up. Crafty veteran. He's a crafty guy, but brawled a lot. Yeah. For sure. I'm not a fan of, I'm a fan of watching brawls when they take place. I'm not a fan as well either. You know what I mean? I'm more of a fan of, and I train a lot of my guys like almost defensively, like backing up, like retreat fighting, you know, constantly trying to jockey for position. I call it like the right place,

right time, all the time. And that line of fire you know we're we're jockeying for that position you know and it's a lot of times it's easier just to take a step back if we're fighting each other we're standing in front of each other i take a step back what do you naturally do you walk to me right so it's the timing of catching them on the way in and guys like you know great fighters in my opinion are more like defensive fighters like like you know, great fighters, in my opinion, are more like defensive fighters. Like you said earlier about Chris Lieben coming in with Anderson Silva, Forrest Griffin trying to attack. You're more vulnerable, like recklessly, like you said,

like brawling recklessly coming in against somebody skilled as Anderson Silva or Demetrius Johnson. So I'm a fan of the retreating attack, I call it. Anderson was such a retreating attacker. Then he had a problem when guys didn't come forward. Right, exactly. Like the stinkers that he had, like Talas Leites. Talas Leites, so painful to watch those fights.

Patrick Cote. Patrick Cote. Patrick Cote was very smart when he fought him. Patrick took very little damage in that fight. I camped him that whole fight. I trained him that whole fight. I had the experience from Jorge. I knew Anderson Silva.

He spent that entire camp in Boston with me. He did have a knee injury going into the fight. We knew, like, it was going to be an issue. But, you know, I said, I actually said this to him, part of the game plan and strategy, it's funny you say that, was to let him come to you. Like, everybody, because Patrick was the type of fighter that was a go-getter. He had that big overhand right. You know, he would put pressure on you.

And I said, Patrick, I'm telling you, you can't fight the way you normally fight against Anderson Silva. Even if you hear boos, we're following the game plan. You know, if you hear the boos from the crowd, like we're doing the right thing. Don't fall victim to it. Don't try to lunge at him. Don't throw big power punches. Let him come to you. And we did.

And that was actually the first time we took Anderson past a third round. I think was he the third or the fourth? We were actually going into the fourth, I think. And he was stepping in to throw a kick and his leg blew out. Exactly. That was in Chicago. Did he get an MRI before that fight? I think, if I remember correctly,

he had an issue. We knew going into it. We didn't want to pull out of the fight. How bad was the issue? It was pretty severe. And after it, I think that was just the icing on the cake. It blew out completely during the fight. So he had a partial tear of his ACL? Something like that. Something to that effect.

Bring up that fight, Jamie. I'm curious now to see. Yeah. It was weird. It was a weird blowout because there was a lot of distance between them. Yeah, I was just going to say, it wasn't during an exchange. I think, like you said, he went to push off his back foot. I don't know.

Be curious to see it. It's been a while since I visited that. Yeah, I just remember not knowing what happened and he fell down. Yeah. You called that fight, obviously, right? Yeah.

That was before. What's that? Patrick Cote, Anderson Silva. Anderson Silva. Yeah. From probably 2000, what was that?

Nine? Maybe a little later. Yeah, maybe nine or 10, yeah. Dude, it's a blur at this point. I know. It's a blur, dude. I've done like 400 shows. Was it?

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, see? That was a while ago yeah wow man that was the rain that was when anderson he had he was he was the king but people didn't appreciate him the way they appreciated him after he knocked out forrest griffin stephen bonner after vitor belford that front kick to the face yeah that's when he became the GOAT. Dude, he was like literally feared. Like I think a lot of fighters are just like, that call came and it was like, Anderson Tilly. Like, fuck. Well, he was also so calm.

Yeah. You know, there was something about him in those days. He was so calm. Dude, I used to always say this and I told Jorge this at his cage rage fight with him. I said, dude, he beats people at the weigh-ins. He's like, what do you mean? Everybody's like, what do you mean? Everybody's like, what do you mean? He has this thing.

It's funny. Like when he goes to weigh in with you, like, you know, normally like people go like face to face, they get real close. Like he would walk up to you as if you're going to, and then he would thrust his neck forward.

Like his head would like fucking gadget head, like would come out and he would just be all up in your face. And it would like surprise you. Like, you know, and I told Jorge that I said, Jorge, be ready at the weigh-in.

Like he's going to put his face, like he's he's gonna cover distance quickly like he moves his head like fucking shenanigans like he's like i don't know you didn't and he puts his head like way out and he did it and i was like oh man there it is well that was one of the ways that chris lieben uh overcame him psychologically at the weigh-ins i remember chris saying i'm not afraid i'm not afraid of you yeah he was looking right at him and he, I'm not afraid of you. He was looking right at him, and he said, I'm not afraid of you. And he probably wasn't, man. He wasn't afraid of him. He wasn't afraid of him.

Nope. That was Chris when he was in his prime, and that's when they were kissing at the weigh-in. When Anderson got so close to his face, they were literally lip to lip. Yeah. And Chris didn't budge. Somebody just spoke of something about him fighting in that bare knuckle league or something against Phil Barone or something like that. Who?

Chris Lieben versus Phil Barone. Chris Lieben? Yeah. Yeah. But I said Chris Weidman. Oh, Weidman. Weidman. I did say Weidman, right?

No. Lieben, I thought. Did I say Weidman? What is that? Weidman. I've combined the two of them. Weidman. Did I say Weidman or Lieben?

Lieben. Okay. I might have fucked up. Chris Weidman. When Weidman beat him. Oh, yeah. He beat him at the weight. They got face to face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he said, yeah, I'm not afraid of you. He said, I'm have fucked up. Chris Weidman. When Weidman beat him. Oh, yeah, he beat him at the weight. They got face to face.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he said, yeah, I'm not afraid of you. He said, I'm not afraid of you. And when he was looking at it, right out of the window, he goes, I'm not afraid of you, bro. And then you could tell Anderson's like, oh, shit, he's not afraid of you. Yeah, and see what happened that night. He got tagged, man. Well, what's interesting in that fight, too, was that Anderson could, I mean was he was clearly scoring with heavy leg kicks and

putting Lieben in jeopardy I mean he was damaging that leg say Lieben I said it again said it again what's wrong with me why am I confusing those two they're both Chris fuck it I should just say Chris yeah just say Chris Chris Chris when uh Weidman Weidman got him down the first round almost got him in a leg lock, and then they got back up to the feet, and then Anderson started fucking him up with leg kicks. And Anderson was hitting him with some nasty, nasty leg kicks. And he was saying in between rounds,

like, come on, stand up with me. Come on, stand up with me. It was weird. It was weird that he was doing that. It was totally out of character. He's like no no we're not gonna go to the house come on stand up yeah he had some funky moments in the octagon he'd done the fucking ombak moving his hands all funky and like against vitor before

he break dancing and shit like i remember there was a couple fights well the fight with damien maya which is that's the one that's the one i'm referring to he psychologically fell apart in that fight yeah he was screaming at damienian Maya and yelling things at him. And Damian Myers is still plugging away. Yeah. He took a lot of shots in that fight, but then was there a third, fourth and fifth when Anderson wasn't doing shit.

Yeah. Anderson was just like moving away. Was that the fight? There was a, there was one fight too, where he was like in the center of the octagon control and beaten up striking. And like, I forget who it was.

It might've been the Damian Maya. It might've been somebody else, but he, he actually stopped and stepped back and put his back to the fence and say, come on, come was. It might've been the Damien Ryan. It might've been somebody else, but he, uh, he actually stopped and stepped back and put his back to the fence and say, come on, come on, let's fight on the fence now. And he like backed his self up. That was Stefan Bonner. That's right.

And that's when he got caught with the spinning elbow. Was it? No, Stefan Bonner tried to spinning back, kick him and he just slid out of the way and then went right back to the fence and went, come on. Yeah. That's what it was. Exactly. And then he fucked him up.

Yeah. I think he hit him with a knee to the body and then dropped him and then beat the shit out of him. Yeah. That was just, he was just so calm and relaxed in there and Bonner was so stiff and tight. And I think that was in Brazil too. Was it? Yeah.

I worked with Stefan for a bunch of fights. I didn't work with him for that fight. I don't recall. That was also a fight where I think Bonner pissed hot. I think he had an opportunityner pissed hot i think he had an opportunity yeah i think he's just like listen i got some injuries i'm just gonna juice it up dude pissed hot is better than shit hot because when he fought sam hogar at the thomas mac arena he fucking shit himself during the fight sam sam hogar was like bro he's like on

top and they grab and he's like bro you fucking stink you shit yourself and he's like yes i did and the worst part about as we come backstage you know the thai cups they like the string up the crap the butt crack yeah he's like coach get my cup and i was like bro you're on your own homie i handed him a scissors i was like cut it off dude i'm good it's hilarious dude i got to corner him i think for that fight with the great calison gracie at the time when that's happened several times dude what was one of the fights? Tim Sylvia shit himself once. When we went to the Reebok uniforms and dudes were wearing white,

I was like, bro, bad idea. Let's not go. No white shorts. Stay away from white shorts. Doc Brown. I think Yoel, dude. Yoel Mereda. Didn't he?

Yeah, I think he sharted one of his fights, too. One time, Michael Chiesa, when he fought Benil Darius, right before the fight started, he leans over to me and goes, dude, I think he sharted one of his fights, too. One time, Michael Chiesa, when he fought Benil Darius, right before the fight started, he leans over to me and goes, dude, I might shit myself. I remember that. Before the walk, dude. They almost had to postpone the walk.

Yeah, man. He was going to run to the bathroom before the fight started. Yeah, UFC staff. He was in the tunnel getting ready to walk. He's like, bro, I got to go to the bathroom. They're like, no, no, you're good. You're good. He's like, no, bro.

Why didn't they just let him go? How long did it take? I don't know, man. 30 seconds will cover. Let the guy to use it. Why didn't they just let him go? How long did it take? I don't know, man. 30 seconds will cover. Let the guy take a dump. Right? Jesus Christ. And then we're behind in production time,

the format, fucking schedule, whatever it is. But, dude, when a man's got a shit, he's got a shit. Here's Anderson and Patrick. Yeah, so he's just, is this on Fight Pass? Yeah, I just, yeah. This is the first round, so it didn't happen until third or fourth or whatever it was. I think it was the third round.

But see, Anderson was just moving around, real relaxed, didn't do much. Yeah. It was an interesting fight because Cote didn't fight his normal style. Yep, exactly. He stayed real, like, boxed up. Oh, I forgot this, that Anderson had him down at one point in time. Anderson's grappling's underrated too man he's a good grappler he's just long as he's built to grapple too look at this even

when he was kicking it look he just he's like no no no no no no i think this is his knee was already i think we knew at this point he's like my knees jacked up dude my knees jacked up i remember him talking to me during the fight and in between rounds but uh he definitely uh he definitely put up a fight at least and at the time nobody was even close to putting up a fight well there i am right there so it's right before then patrick was super fucking dangerous uh see this is where we said with the first one to take him to the third round because nobody had passed the second round with him well not only that it was a totally uneventful three rounds yeah there wasn't even a moment where patrick was in trouble yeah you know

and he was fighting for the title yep yeah that was the main event title fight patrick was always dangerous he always had that one bomb that could put you out and anderson knew that you know so he he was he was fighting a smart strategy but it was interesting because it kind of showed a hole in his style that his style was so counterattacking. Yep, yep. He did not want to. There it is right there. Oh, that's crazy. You know what he did?

He tried to lift his front foot up, almost like to fake a front kick. Bring that back, Jamie. That's crazy. He tried to pick up his front leg to fake like a tee, but to fake like a front leg attack. And then he hopped on his back leg. Yeah. That's rough, man. Weird.

Yeah. See, right there. There it is right there. Yikes. He's in a lot of pain, too. Kote is a tough dude, too, man. Weird. Yeah. See, right there. There it is right there. Yikes. He's in a lot of pain, too. Cote is a tough dude, too, man. To see him wince and go down like that, man. So what was the issue?

Was it a meniscus issue? I don't recall. I'd be lying if I made some shit up right now, but I think it was something like that. What a vulnerable joint. That's why Leglox scared the shit out of me. He always had. If I recall, dude, I think he had issues, too. He had a staph infection in his knee, like repeatedly.

Like I remember he had staph in his knee like a bunch of times. So I don't know, man. But he, you know, his best punch too was not only his overhand right, but his rear uppercut. Nasty, nasty. Yeah, he had big power. Busted me the fuck up a bunch of times. It was weird, his power, you know? Yeah.

It's not like he didn't look like a strong guy. Yeah, yeah. But his power was weird yeah so you watch he hops up on that front leg and you see it just give out a dunk pass yeah yikes dude knees back nasty injuries all those leg lock motherfuckers fucked up knees dude eddie just had to get his meniscus fixed too he had a meniscus operation pretty recently all those guys like oh yeah he had shoulder surgery recently he had back surgery recently yeah back surgery a little over a year ago knee surgery recently

he's not doing that stem cell shit you're talking about huh no he hasn't i think he did something but he didn't do it with the place that i go to. But it's just years and years of jiu-jitsu. It's just not good for your body. Everybody that I know. As much as I love jiu-jitsu, bro, I'm telling you, I sustain most of my injuries in rolling. It's almost like I can't get out of a jiu-jitsu session, like gi or no gi, without getting something tweaked or something. Well, I was talking the other night with some guys from Team Alpha Male, and we were talking about guys who have fake discs.

How many guys have had artificial discs put in their necks and in their backs? It's a fucking terrifying number. You keep going on and not used to it. Like, he got one, too? Yeah, he's got two in his neck. Like, what? Like, he's got one in his lower back. What?

God damn it, he's 30. These guys are, Like, what? He's got one in his lower back. What? God damn it. He's 30. These guys are like 30 years old with fake backs. Combat sports are rough, man. Yeah. Rough on the body. Particularly wrestling and particularly jiu-jitsu. Wrestling, it seems to be a lot of the neck.

In jiu-jitsu, it's neck and lower back. The lower back seems to get jacked on almost everybody. I've been lucky. Knock on wood. I've been lucky. I haven't really suffered any serious injuries in my training career i wonder too how much uh tie training and uh throwing kicks because it's so core intensive kicking it so much so much i think it protects you because like a lot of my like my lower back it's very heavily muscled yeah the

lower back and the mid. It's one of the first things I actually look at when I'm studying a fighter is I look to see his back, how his back sounds. Like, this guy's going to be strong. Yeah. What makes you say that? Like, dude, look at his lower back specifically. Yes. I say that all the time.

Exactly. I'm like, look at his lower back. You see guys with jacked up lower back muscles, you know their core strength is just off the chain. Do you have a reverse hyper in your gym? No. Do you have one of those? No. Dude, that should be standard in any gym where they wrestle.

Is that the inversion? That's the one where you lie down on the table with your upper body and your lower body hangs down and hooks into this thing. Yep, I've seen them. It was created by Louie Simmons, that guy from West Side Barbell, the powerlifting monster. And when you lift your legs up, it strengthens your back. There it is right there.

Okay, I've seen them. And on the way down, it decompresses the spine. Really? Lengthens almost? Well, it decompresses. See, there's a video. If you show him the video,

he'll get a chance to see what it is. In the video, Louie's explaining it. But we have one back here. And I've had one for a couple years now, and it's just go forward. You don't need to hear the volume. See, as she's

going up, it's strengthening her back, and then on the down, it extends and it lengthens the back and decompresses it. It's active decompression. It's one of the rare things that provides active decompression in contrast with strengthening. So it strengthens it on the way up and then loosens it on the way back. And that activating the muscles and the strengthening portion of it and then the decompression portion

together, it's uniquely good for, uniquely effective for strengthening and rehabilitating lower back issues. Interesting. You got one here you said? Yeah. He developed it because they were trying to give him surgery. They were trying to fuse his disc together because he had a bulging disc. So he was trying to figure out how to fix a bulging disc. And that's how he figured it out.

disc and that's how he figured it out but it's now like universally praised has been one of the as being one of the best exercises to prevent injury but more importantly to rehabilitate you if you have something like that going on i gotta check that out for sure it should be standard for every gym it's one of those pieces of equipment that i think like one of the big things that happens with guys is compression and very few fighters in particular spend time doing spinal decompression like on those inversion tables just gonna say inversion those are great man they're great just just chill on one of those those teeters yeah chill on one of those for 10 minutes a day just put the boots on and kick back and just and and then tighten your back up and then let it loose and tighten your back up and let it loose. I've used them before.

And you could push on the handles and give yourself some separation. You have to do something to compensate for all the pressure, right? So there's all this compression, and you've got to do something to decompress. I've seen something, too, like a band around your neck. You lay on the floor and almost put it on a doorknob and it pulls your head up. You ever seen something like that? I have one that's a thing. You lay on the floor, almost like put it on a doorknob, almost like, and it pulls your head up. You ever seen something like that? I have one that's a,

it's a thing that you put on your chin and I put it on a, a unit, like a, a barbell. Yeah. So I, I hook it up to the barbell and then I sit underneath it with a chair. Yeah.

Same concept. And then I extend my neck. Yeah. That's crazy. You get like two inches taller. Stretching. Yeah. Like you said to wrestling is the worst man just

like that always shooting that single shoot that double grabbing and palming the back of your head yeah yeah it's rough well thai too right oh my god i remember the first one of the first experiences i had clinching with guys in thailand you know because i was one of the bigger guys they were like i need you need you to clinch you know know. And these Thai dudes just hanging on my neck, hanging on my neck, you know, for an hour straight. And I've never felt anything like that. Man, my neck was completely locked up. I couldn't turn. I had to actually get one of those, the neck braces there, the collars.

Really? Yeah, I had to get like massage like every day. Literally, I was out of training probably for four or five days. I couldn't even train. I couldn't. It's almost like having a stiff neck, but it was horrible, man. Yeah, well, you got to think those muscles don't get used that much if you're not doing that. Correct. Yeah. If you're not doing like neck extensions. Yeah. And then I went to

my trainer and I was like, how do I make my neck stronger? And he took me over to this coffee can filled with cement and a rope coming out of it. And he said, you bite the rope and you go. And I remember ringside had like a thing like that they they put that like thing like a strap around your head you put the chain through a weight yeah you did though yeah it's like something like that but biting it seems better too yeah because you're working the mandible as well the problem was is everybody fucking bit on the thing in the camp and the fucking breath all the bad mouthpiece i remember being in a bank in in thailand in patio once and like there was like a water like thing but there was there was no plastic cups there was no like uh

cups like disposable cups there was a plastic cup with a string tied to it oh and people would just go and fill it and just lip on it and put it down. I'm like, bro, this is rough, dude. Well, I got to figure it's like, I'm not that thirsty. Those moist environments. Like there's so much bacteria in the air anyway. Like how common is, um, how common is staff? Dude, it's so funny you say that because you would think it would run rampant like ringworm. Like I remember, I remember one of the first times I got ringworm in Thailand and I like

had a bandaid on it and I was clinching with one of my training partners thai guy and the band-aid came off and i was like hold on let me go to and he's like well no don't worry about it and i was like no like let me like cover this up and he'd like he touched it he like was rubbing it like oh dude don't worry about that and i was like dude no no no no it's like it's ringworm bro and like it's like the like thai leather skin is like immune to it they don't fucking get ringworm they don't get staph like it's weird like you don't don't get it's not common no it's weird i'm sure they do get it but it's funny like it doesn't like run rampant in the gyms like you would think like a bunch of sweaty tie dudes training with no shirts on clinching hanging all over each other you know

and they you know they're laying on the ground doing sit-ups and push-ups and all that bullshit and there's it's not common like there's not a lot of ringworm in the gyms there's not a lot of a lot of staff infections. I don't know if just their body builds immunity to it. I don't know. It's just not common. It's not common, though. Because in American gyms, it's rampant.

Oh, my God. I remember being on the Ultimate Fight, when I coached season four, the comeback, with Jorge, Patrick Cote, all the time. I met all those guys. Chris Lytle, et cetera, et cetera. Matt Serra was on that show. Who was it that got it? Edwin Dewey's i think got a staph infection and nobody everybody's like oh what the hell's

wrong with your skin i was like bro that's like that's like the he be gbs that's like the matt scabies like that's staph and everybody was like what like what is that and i was like bro that's staph infection like when was a lot and i went to the the ufc the production team and i said when was the last time like you guys clean the mats? Like, oh, like we clean them like once, once a week. But I was like, whoa, I was like, bro, you got to clean these mats with like disinfectant every single training session. And they're like, all right, that's cool. And I was like, how about that wall?

Like the padded wall? Like, oh no, we never clean that. Like, bro, they have no shirts on. They're grappling, you know, with their backs on the wall, sweating all over the wall. And they, I brought them, brought it to their attention that, listen, everything needs to be cleaned in the gym. How disturbing is that? Bro, Dana literally said, you go back and you watch, like, the box series.

Like, I still got it. It was like DVD series. Like, literally, Dana said, like, Delegati pretty much saved the show. The whole, almost the whole, both teams got staff. I was like, get the Vans detail. Like, get the Vans detail. Clean the mats. Clean stability balls.

I made everybody get tea tree and eucalyptus soap. You know, it just nobody was educated at the time about it. And it just it's a plague, man. It's I if I see anybody with ringworm or staff, I literally light fucking bombs in the gym and burn the fucking place down. What a new mats from zebra and rev gear. It's so common. I was just reading one of Gordon Ryan's posts on Instagram that he got MRSA for the second time. Yeah.

And that medication-resistant staph infection, that scares the shit out of me. Dude, I had staph. I can't really claim it. Cote, I'm not going to blame you, bro, but it was oddly enough right around the time where Cote had staph in his knee and I was camping him and I was very active at the time training with these guys. And I got staph under my armpit, both fucking armpits. I literally had, I had to walk around like with my arms up like this. I had wicks coming out of them, like nasty dude. Staff is no good. They put wicks. What they do is they actually, they make an incision. They drain the abscess cause it's an abscess essentially. They drain the abscess and then they pack it with

like what literally looks like a wick from like a lantern. It's like hollow in the middle cloth and they pack it in and they leave just a little tip out. And as the wound drains and heals, the wick comes out. So I had like these two inch like. Like a tampon string. Basically.

And was it medicated? No, they just, they clean it out. They make an incision. They clean it medicated? No, they just, they clean it out. They make an incision. They clean it all out. They flush it with saline and they, they pack it with a wick and they dope you up with Kel-Flex. Usually is the weapon of choice for antibiotics.

I think, believe it's called Kel-Flex. And they, uh, they, yeah. That stuff drains your mojo like nothing. Dude,

kicks your ass, dude. Tired walking upstairs, like everything. That's when you see when guys fight on that we remember what's his name luke rockhold against chris weidman and kevin lee recently too remember we noticed it during the broadcast kevin didn't take any medication specifically because he knew it would zap his cardio yeah well i'm sure the staff zapped him too oh period yeah but the

antibiotics on top of it forget about it i remember when we called that fight you called that fight and i was like dude that staff on us and we were talking about it and it's almost like the guys in the truck like i don't know don't mention it don't mention this they told daniel cormier not to say anything yes when i brought it up to cormier that's right i said is that where i staffed you and they're like don't bring that up yeah i remember that that's definitely staff joe you don't give a single fuck that guy i love that guy he's like what are you talking about Don't talk about that It was blatantly obvious It was so obvious how could anyone say to not talk about that

It's funny too because I don't think the commission Is supposed to allow you to fight If you got like a herpy on your lip or something funky Or you got staffed That's what I was shocked Because it was so blatant It was swollen He put makeup on it on the way in yeah

that's right that's right yeah suzy touched it up a little bit which is hilarious she's complicit everyone's involved yeah suzy's awesome i've had times i've had times where like i've had fighters like oh my god he took a cut during the camp like you're trying to kind of hide it yeah airbrush yeah kevin lee that was a that was really unfortunate timing because i wanted to see airbrushed. Nicey-nice. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, Kevin Lee, that was really unfortunate timing because I wanted to see what would happen in that fight. I mean, that was a,

and you saw Kevin get Tony down. He's beating him up on the ground. That's right. I was just going to say, who was he fighting? He got mount on him. Yeah. He got his back.

Dude, Kevin Lee is a monster. He is, man. And he's fucking huge for 155 pounds. He is. You know, when he first emerged, like, and I was watching him, I was like, oh, no. I wasn't, like, I don't want to say I wasn't impressed, but I had no idea, like, what his capabilities were. Like, and I started watching him fight, and I was like, dude, this guy's legit.

He's a serious threat. He's not even in his prime. Yeah, exactly. How old is he? He's 26, I think, now. Really? I didn't realize he's that young. 25 or 26.

He's that young? He's very young. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Find out how old Kevin Lee is. I think he's a few years from his prime. 25? 25, yeah.

25. 25. That's young, dude. Young as fuck. That is young, man. Young. Young as fuck. Smart as fuck, too.

In a month, he's 26? He's a cool dude, too. He's a very cool guy. I had him on my podcast, and I think it really changed people's perceptions of him. You realize how honest he is, open, intelligent, and just really considerate and thinking about all the various aspects of his career. Where it's like really just talking about his own skills versus their skills. And even Ferguson, when he was talking about Tony, he was saying, man, this injury is a real bummer because it's going to impede what he does. Like his whole thing is that he can do anything. Right. He's like loose and he takes chances. Like if he's got this knee that's fucked up that he doesn't trust, like that could really get him.

Like, ooh, that's a good point. He's got a knee that he doesn't trust. It's going to keep him from being as, like, freewheeling, you know? Yeah, yeah. One of the things about Tony is he's so unpredictable. Yeah, man. Like, how do you prepare for a guy that just moves crazy and has knockout power and nutty endurance? Yeah, man.

Yeah. He trained with Eddie still? Was he with 10 Planet? Yes, yes. He's still with Eddie. What a freak accident, man. Imagine you're on your way to a fight, you're doing press, and you go to talk to someone, you trip over some wires.

Is that what it was? Production wires, like camera wires or something? Yeah, in UFC Tonight. Yeah. And blew the fucking ligament off the bone. Oh, man. You ever see that scar? I haven't, no.

Oh, my God. Really? It's like a 12-inch scar. And there was no previous injury or anything so that literally just came out of nowhere like he tripped on those wires and fell sideways and literally which is how does a guy like that fall down even you would think he's so athletic forget when it was back in the day we had remember when you used to do the ufc workout rooms uh and there it is they would put, Oh man, what a fucking scar.

It's like 80 staples. Yeah. It's nuts. That's one of the bigger knee scars I've ever seen in my life. That is nasty scar. Yeah. But now he's, uh,

he's running around, he's moving. Yeah. He's a freak, man. They were doing some UV light or something like that on it. But you know, he's,

uh, he's starting to hit the bag again. He throws kicks and punches on the bag. Now we've, we've lost fights in the it. But, you know, he's starting to hit the bag again. He throws kicks and punches on the bag now. We've lost fights in the past for those, you know, like I was just going to say, we had those, you know, the fold-out mats, like the bi-fold mats. I remember, like, somebody got their foot caught in it, rolled their ankle.

It was, like, one show a long time ago. And, you know, we started talking about it. And I think it was Jimmy Gifford, who works for Lorenzo, back at the time. I was like, man, you need those Dolemar, those rollout mats, these seams are no good, man. People are tweaking their ankles left and right, man. We'd lose a fight occasionally backstage just from somebody rolling their ankle in the cracks of the mats or something stupid like that. But what a freak accident to think like and how close he was really close to that fight, wasn't he?

He was a couple of days out. Yeah. He was a couple days out. Yeah. Do you remember when Kevin Randleman was backstage and he stepped on some pipes and flew through the air and land on his head and knocked himself out? I don't recall. Backstage prepping for the main event of a fight. That's crazy.

It was like UFC 13 or 14 or some shit. And they lose the main event. They lost the main event. Nightmare. I don't remember who he was supposed to be fighting. I do not remember. But I remember Kevin Randleman stepped on some pipes and fell and hit his fucking head. Yeah, I remember. And I remember thinking, what?

Yeah. What are the odds? Maybe he's supposed to be fighting Pedro Hizzo? I do not remember who he was supposed to be fighting. That's going way back. Randleman days is going back. Was it Pedro Hizzo? Yeah.

When did you come on? 12. UFC 12. 1997. Was it Zuffer at the time or was it SEG? No, SEG. It was, okay. Yeah, Bob Meyerowitz.

That's right. Camo McLaren hired me. No shit. It was Tony Blower did it before me. That's right. They needed a new backstage interviewer guy. So UFC 12. Yeah. Dothan alabama son we're supposed to be in buffalo supposed to fly to buffalo new york and or albany somewhere in new york but new york state made it illegal like right before yeah so they had to change all

the flights move the octagon fly down to dothan alabama yeah puddle jumper plane yeah yeah i remember those days i was not involved with the company at the time i got i think the first fight i cornered was like ufc 36 or something like that but that was it that's early in the day too yeah ufc 35 and a half was when i came back yeah that's when i did my first commentary. Who was it? Who was the first? Chuck versus Vitor was what I did. Who was the owner at that time? Was it Art Davey? It was the guy I'm thinking of. Art Davey was one of the original guys.

He was a part of SEG. Yeah. It was Art Davey's Bob Meyerowitz. Yeah. And I guess Horian Gracie was involved in the very, very beginning. Yeah. I remember we did the 20-year Zufa, 20 years, whatever. Like we're backstage.

We're coming into the MGM in the back of the arena. And, you know, everybody's pulling up. You know, I got the Ferraris, Lambos coming up. And Art Davey pulls up in a fucking Saturn. And I was like, oh, boy, have time changed. Times have changed. Oh, wow. Really?

Like a busted, like, Nevada plate. You didn't get in on the payday. Oh, man. You on the payday. I was like, oh, man. You missed the payday. I was like, fuck, times have definitely changed. Lambos, Ferraris, blacked out SUVs, and then a Saturn. Rickety rackety. Come squeaking up.

The UFC bought. Great dude, though. I like it. Zufa bought the UFC for $2 million. That's right. Think of that. Yeah. And they, what, $4 billion was the sale price?

Talk about profit on return of investment. But it's a long time. I mean, they bought it in 2001, right? And you can imagine how much money the Fratidas, Lorenzo and Frank and Dana, how much money they put in, too. It's not like they bought it for a clean $2 million and had smooth sailing and then sold out. Well, they were in the hole for $40 million by the time 2005 rolled around. So 2005 was the first season of The Ultimate Fighter. And they were in the hole $40 million while they were in production.

And they were trying to sell the UFC. No shit. And Lorenzo called Dana the next day and said, fuck it, let's just keep going. Yeah. Like he was saying, see if anybody wants to buy it. And they decided, fuck it, let's just keep going. Yeah. Yeah.

Glad he did. Here we are. Yeah. Yeah. But you got to think that the number, the amount of money they have to make every month just to make the nut on $4 billion. Exactly. Yeah.

It's not an easy company to run, I can imagine. Yeah. I mean, i don't really talk to ari much when he's back there i just say hi shake his hand i've never met him i don't know yeah i don't know how well it's doing i've never met him i just missed him actually in dubai i was on lorenzo threw me a fucking big layup and sent me over to uh dubai to train uh prince tarnoon you've trained him several times, right? I had one trip. I spent about a month there,

but I ended up just, instead of teaching him Muay Thai, I just ended up doing jujitsu at Marseille Agassi every day, which was fucking awesome. I show up in Dubai, like, doing that. Well, it was funny

because we got off the plane. The first day, they sent me airline tickets. Lorenzo's like, hey, you want to go to Dubai? You know, train Tarnoon? It's Abu Dhabi, right? Yeah, it was Abu Dhabi, Dubai.

I'm sorry, Abu Dhabi, but Dubai's like right there. So, you know, so going to Abu Dhabi, like, I got the airline tickets. I was like, what the fuck is this? ETS, Dubai, I'm sorry. Abu Dhabi, but Dubai is like right there. So, you know, so going Abu Dhabi, like I got the airline tickets. I was like, what the fuck is this? ETS, something, airlines, some bullshit, flying some fucking weird airlines. And I looked it up and I was like, oh shit, there's like gold toilets and shit.

And I looked and I told him, I was like, I need an assistant to go with me. Like, you may have an assistant. And I was like, perfect. I looked and it was nine grand each a ticket. It was like 18 grand for like the flights. It was in like full beds, like little caps capsules you could get fillets and shit and we got there there was uh there was nobody at the airport and i'm like fuck dude i don't know who to call what's going on i had no idea right some guy walks over to me and he hands me a box a mobile phone and i

open the box and there's a phone he goes the, the phone will ring when he needs you. And I was like, what the fuck is this? And then a stretched out seven series. So check this out, a stretched out seven series BMW comes. And the guy's like, he comes over, he grabs my bag, he puts them in, and he takes us to a place called the Twin Towers. You motherfuckers. Oddly enough, right after 9-11, I'm like,

oh, I get it, fucking Twin Towers. Fucking put the American guys up in the Twin Towers. And we get there, and it's the middle of the night. Me and my buddy Neil, one of my students at the time, Neil Legallo, we ended up going up to the room, and there was nothing there. There was no furniture. The beds weren't, it wasn't like a hotel.

It was like an apartment, because we were going to be there for a month. And I was like, dude, is there a fucking Target open right now and get some bed sheets and stuff? I need soap. I need, there was nothing there. And we literally sat in that apartment going across the street to the market

where we, the only white dudes in the market, just getting like cans of like tuna and olive oil and like bread just to dip it in. We would like survive in for like two days, just staring at the fucking phone every day. Like it's going to fucking ring. I know it's going to provide food.

Well, listen, so then, so then the phone rang and he said, there'll be a fucking ring. I know it's going to ring. He didn't provide food. Well, listen. So then the phone rang. And he said, there'll be a driver outside. You know, when you get there, like, when you go downstairs, there'll be a driver outside. You're going to go to the palace. So we go downstairs.

There's a driver outside. And he gives us the whole rundown about, do not make eye contact with the prince. Only call him his highness. And I'm like, dude, this is trippy as fuck, dude. And you've got to do jujitsu with this guy. No, I'm supposed to train him in Muay Thai. He wanted to learn Muay Thai. Because he said, he asked Lorenzo, he asked Lorenzo, like, you know, who you do Muay Thai with. I always got to do jujitsu with this guy. No, I'm supposed to train him in Muay Thai. He wanted to learn Muay Thai. Because he asked Lorenzo who you do Muay Thai with.

I was wanting to learn Muay Thai. So Lorenzo mentioned me. And that's how I got over there. So I get to the palace. And I show up in this workout room. And I'm just sitting there. I'm like, dude, this is so weird. No one's telling us what's going on.

And Marcelo Garcia walks in with a gym bag. And I was like, holy fucking shit. It's Marcelo Garcia. We ended up like, his highness came out. And we did a little bit of Muay Thai. But his passion for jujitsu was so overwhelming that all he wanted to do was jujitsu. He's like, do you like jujitsu? I was like, yeah, I love jujitsu.

He's like, let's do jujitsu. I ended up training every day with Marcelo Garcia for like a month straight. And we did like maybe in a month's time, we did like maybe three hours of Muay Thai. Really? Yeah. And then as like going back to the Ari story, as I was leaving,

like I think Ari was coming in doing some type of business with his highness at the time or something. So we just missed each other. That was my point to tell you about Ari.

What is he like hanging out with? Because all that eye contact shit seems to go out the window once you're around him. Yeah, well once you get to know him, once I got to know him and you know i got a little more comfortable around him like he was super cool like super cool dude really intense dude man like everything to the extreme

like i'm gonna hike mount everest he hikes fucking mount everest he's like oh dude everything like he's he had like in uh uh the what's an elevation chamber like an elevation tent and stuff like uh he had just everything he was anything he did was like to the extreme i mean obviously like you're talking like a an extreme dude a trillionaire like you can do anything he wants he's a trillionaire trillion this is a trillion people don't understand when you hear about the world's richest men those are people with public incomes yeah this is not oligarchs. Yeah, he's above and beyond fucking Forbes 500 He's literally a prince Jimmy. He was funny

He told me a story about how Henzo and I've laughed at this with Henzo Henzo they had this big horse race that they do and they race across the desert and They needed another rider and you do it like with no saddle or something It's this crazy like long like 20 30 mile horse race or something like that. And I don't know the details of it, but Henzo was there at the time and they were like, uh, we need another rider. And then just like, fuck it. All right.

And they're like, no, bro, you don't understand. Like, it's like, you got like a fucking scarf around your throat and you're like, just get on a horse and you go for like, whatever it is, how long it is. And Henzo did the race. You like survived the race. It was crazy. Yeah. Ask him about it sometime. It's funny. Tell him the story. Just one. I saw that. Henzo did the race. He survived the race. It was crazy. Ask him about it sometime.

It's funny telling the story. You know, Henzo just won. I saw that. 51 years old. I was saying to myself, what's he doing? Is he going to fight again? He's really doing this. At first, I heard.

Yuki Kondo. I know. And he took his back. He took him down with a very slick move. Yeah. Yeah. He hooked the leg and then went through the underside and butterflied the back of the other leg and dragged him down. I saw the finish.

I didn't see the fight. How long did the fight last? It wasn't that long. First round? Yeah, it was first round. Second round? Second round, yeah. Second round?

Henzo's still getting at it, huh? At 50. Go earlier than this so you can see the actual takedown. Because the takedown's slick. Yeah. So he dives in. And a very dangerous guy yuki kondo yuki kondo stops saluhibero yeah like yuki kondo was a beast vicious vicious fucking striker but you know also 50 years old himself i think so henzo gets a single watch this look at

that trip you see that puts a hook in yeah and butterflies the the opposite leg oh that that is a i love that master henzo grace unbelievable man such a great person great jujitsu has been an inspiration to us all 51 years old and looks like he's 51 with his body like he doesn't it doesn't look like he's juiced to the tits you know what he's in this position right now he's got his back he's like i got you motherfucker he's used to the tits. You know, he's in this position right now. He's got his back. He's like, I got you, motherfucker. Henzo gets on your back and that's how we're at pretty much. Yeah. And Kondo was always a striker.

Yeah, exactly. Is this like 50-year-old division going to manifest or something? They're like talking about this Masters League or something like that. Is it actually going to manifest? I don't know, man. But in Japan, they'll have anybody fight. Yeah. The freakier, the better. Gabby Garcia fight old housewives. I don't know, man, but in Japan, they'll have anybody fight. The freakier, the better.

They have Gabby Garcia fight old housewives. They don't give a fuck. They have grandmas fight in Japan. They'll do anything. And then what they're doing in 1FC, I mean, they're basically, look, they're rehabilitating careers. I mean, look at fucking Brandon Vera. Brandon Vera's a monster over there now. He is active. He's the heavyweight champ. That's right, yeah. Dude, you ever Brandon Vera's a monster over there now. Is he still? He is active.

He's the heavyweight champ. That's right, yeah. Dude, you ever see what he looks like now? No. I haven't even followed it in a while yet. He looks like a poster boy for USADA's sniff test. Oh, shit. He's gigantic.

His neck starts at the top of his head. Look at him. Look at him. He's yoked. He's a huge heavyweight now. He was always big, but he's yoked up now, huh? Oh, yeah, dude. He's for sure on Mexican supplements. Good for him. him go for it he's got that tijuana test i don't know what uh

let's see if you can find a video of him fighting because he looks like a fucking gorilla now what does it say he weighs was it does it say there he was always 40 years old He's 40 years old now. 40, yeah, age 40. Yeah, 64. 6'2", 230, it says there. He was a very light 250 now. 250 now. Yeah. Jesus. Yeah. See if you can find a video of him. Go deep into the fight.

See how big he is. Oh. He's so big. He is a big dude. I mean, he's a real heavyweight now. Yeah. Is he living in Asia now? Where is he at?

I don't think so. Originally San Diego, right? He's heavyweight now. Yeah. Is he living in Asia now? Where is he at? I don't think so. Originally San Diego, right? He's still San Diego. Yeah. Oh, head kick from hell. Yeah, dude, he's a monster. His jits is good, too. Dean Lister guy, right?

Oh, yeah. His jits is solid. Well, I think he started with Lloyd Irvin. Okay, yep, you're right. Yeah. I mean, he's gone to a bunch of camps. Yeah. I had a chance to train with him when he was at Eddie's place at the old bomb squad.

Yeah. He came in and it was before he fought in the UFC. And I remember saying to him, like, what weight are you fighting in? He's like heavyweight. I was like, wow. He didn't look like a big guy. He wasn't a big heavyweight at the time. No.

He was very light for a heavyweight, but he was fucking people up because he was. Good Muay Thai too. Melchor Menor, I think he trained with too in San Diego. Rob Kamen. Rob Kamen. He was Rob Kamen's guy for a while. And then him and Rob had a dispute about percentage payments or something like that. There was a kid, though, that I think managed him in my area.

I forget his name back in the day. But he had some money issues, too. Man, I don't know what happened with Rob. Rob vanished. I never see him anymore. Yeah, man. It's funny. He was around for a while, and he disappeared disappeared and he'd come back around for a while.

And then before you know it, I saw him like fucking eating fucking space cake on Instagram in Holland. I was like, all right, I guess he's in Holland now. I don't know what the fuck he's doing. Is that where he is? He's back in Holland? I think so, yeah. I think he had like just some ups and downs in his life and he just needed to get the fuck out. Just go back to his roots.

I saw him like videos of him in a field like frolicking and fucking i was like my man rob he i love that guy though something that he was putting together like came in 101 yeah yeah some workout yeah yeah yeah yeah he was he was nasty back in the day man he was like one of the first uh foreigners that korea tongue at the seattle camp like i remember duke rufus on the podcast years ago was talking about Rob Kamen and Siyatong. He was like one of our first like foreign, foreign superstars. Like, you know, him, Remendecker, those guys. He was a big guy too for a guy that was fighting the Thais. He was.

He was. He was way bigger than everybody else. And what I loved about him too as a southpaw, he would attack the back leg a lot. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the worst way to take a low kick. I was just going to say that.

Yeah. He would do that slight step to the side and go across both legs. Oh. Oh. Right across the front. Jeb McLeod. What is that? What do you say?

Jeb. Jeb. Jeb. Jeb. Hurt. Hurt. Or Jeb. Jeb.

Like J-E-B. Jeb. What does that mean? It means hurt. Jeb. Jeb means hurt? Yeah, hurt. Je jeb hoi if i say jeb that means hurt if i want to say it hurts a lot i say mock like my name mock jeb mock jeb mock like happy dji very happy dji mock and then you can throw the tights oh dji mock could you read thai i'm just now my brother joshua who is a one of my students back home he's a buddhist monk a white dude with a man bun drives a jeep like you'd never know he's like that

man bum while he sleeps he's teaching me how to how to read and write you know i i can speak i knew i could speak uh i knew i could speak thai pretty well when i actually started talking to people on the phone like people from thailand on phone, because if I'm in front of you, like, and it's like any language, like you go, like you fly, like what, what time, like you can fucking caveman language and you can figure it out, you know? But once I started talking to like Thai friends on the phone, I was like, dude, I got this. Like, I'm not using like my, my hand signs and whatnot. So.

All right. So like, if you had to say someone in, in Thai, like the weigh-ins are today, but it's not the real weigh-in, it's not the real weigh-in it's a ceremonial weigh-in the real weigh-in started at 8 a.m what would you say the thais don't even go that far that's way too much really yeah dude that's way too much like dude i'll explain i'll explain thai language to you right now you ready Let's take the verb to like. Okay. Like you like something. Chop. Right. Karate chop. Chop.

Right. That means I like. Okay. I take the word my, M-A-I. Right. If I put it before it, if I want to ask you if you like something. Right. I just say, chop my. That means my is at the end.

I'm asking you a question. Chop like my. Do you like? If you like it, you say chop. Right. If you don't like it, you put the my in front of go my chop. It's literally like like no like fucking cave language, bro. So, so if I'm like, all right, you know, take the word, like I said, like a go, like bye.

Bye. Means go. Right. Bye. My, are you going my pie? Not going. If you're going, you just go bye. Wow.

Dude, that's, that's the crash course of thai right there but the best in the kingdom bro is knowing the thai glitch me and my trainer crew toy see your tongue the son of korea tongue uh always taught me thai glitch because it was the fastest way from a to b it's like all right if you want to say water like it's nam but rather than say nam you just say what the like oh shit like airport sanam bin just go airport so they know what airport means oh dude if i if you say sanam bin and you say it like with the wrong tone like it's something different like it's like the word my my my dog horse come oh jesus that's why you can really get fucked up trying to speak Thai in Thailand.

That's why I teach all my students at Crash Course, bro, Thai-glish. Like, you want water? What the? You want to go to the airport? Airpot. Passport? Passport. You just have to say it.

You just say it. It's literally like you're almost mocking them, but you're not. They get it right away. Oh, that's so strange. It's weird. I've had literally literally people like dude like don't you like fucking ranking on the guy like no I'm not doing I'm talking to places they they all spoke English oh yeah everybody for the most part now yeah yeah nowadays for the most part yeah it was more it was more difficult to communicate well

there was less tourists, you know. Right. And now, you know, it's over, it's plagued with like Germans and Russians as like everybody's going to Thailand. There was a lot. I saw a Ferrari driving down the street for the first time ever like a couple years ago in Thailand. I was like, a fucking Ferrari? In Pattaya City, Thailand? It's all Russian money.

Like a lot of Russians go there with big Russian money, you know. Yeah, there's a lot of like gangster activity in Pattaya, right?utch russian yeah what are they doing over there i don't know i don't ask i don't know selling selling people i don't fucking know you can buy a liver for fucking 500 baht in the street like i don't know bro i don't know but i i definitely know that there was a time when i was going to thailand and it felt like Thailand. And then I went back once and it was like, like everybody was speaking Russian and there was like white dudes everywhere and like all foreign, like all foreigners. And I was like, why do you think Russian? Why do you think? I don't know.

Well, it's a lot of, a lot of Europeans vacation in Thailand too. You know, it's like we go to like in America, we go to like Aruba, Bahamas, Jamaica. Like that's our vacation. Like the Brits, like from the UK, they're like, let's go holiday in Thailand. You know, they go to Thailand. Australians, they go to Thailand. Like they go to Southeast Asia. So it's just, I don't know, it's a big tourist attraction, Thailand, for Europeans and for

now Russians. I saw a lot of older European or American looking men with hot young Thai chicks. Yep. absolutely. And I was like, look at that. Oh, took mark, really cheap. You get a fucking great deal over there. They run specials. No, you see it all the time. The worst is like the fat German guy

in the fucking man thong walking down the street with a fucking little boy, like a 14-year-old boy. Oh, really? Oh, dude. I've seen some weird shit in Thailand, man. Yeah. As I said earlier, man, Zalanda smiles, but does not always smile.

Why is it worse if it's a 14-year-old boy versus a 14-year-old girl? Is it? It's all the same at that point. I don't know, man. I don't think it's worse. I think the 14-year-old boy could probably take it better. I never thought of that. And I don't want to.

It's probably less scarring if that's what he's into. Yeah. So you don't see a lot of that shit up in Chiang Mai. It's not like you were more like the elephant country. That's real Thailand to me. Yeah. That Chiang Mai, that northern Thailand is like the real Thai culture. And then as you go down south,

you get more touristy, you get more freak shows. Elephants were everywhere, like in terms of art. Yeah. Elephant art. It's huge, prevalent. It's very prevalent in Thai culture. It's Southeast Asia. That's the fucking animal god.

Like that's it. Like the elephants, everything to them. The Thai boxing style, well, at first it was what they call Krabi Krabong, which is known in Thailand as Phan Dab, which means long, short. And that's the old depiction you see of sword play, like the Thais using swords. And they dressed up these elephants in armor and rode baskets and just shot arrows from the top of the elephant. So the elephant has always been a huge part of that. Even in warfare. Yeah.

They use the elephants in, in combat. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So they would like put these armor plates on the trunks of the elephants and the body of the elephants and they would put baskets on them and they would just go off into battlefield and just be plucking people with arrows and just

dropping spears on them. So the elephant was always prevalent to the success of Thai culture. That's crazy. Can you imagine going to battle riding a fucking elephant? So you think something up there on the internet would fucking battle elephants? In 300? Yeah, yeah. Something like that.

Yeah, there you go. There you go. There you go. Yeah. Fuck, man. Yeah, the Thais were doing that shit against the Burmese like back in the day. They would dress them all up. Can you imagine you're in a fucking war with somebody and you see a bunch of

come towards you on elephants dude a giant fucking horse like coming at me is one thing but an elephant like ah dude we're outnumbered here we gotta fight them they're so big man they are i i was so nervous around them big time it's weird we went to a place that rehabilitates them and they reintroduce them back into the wild. Yeah. You didn't ride it though, I think. Yeah, I rode it. I didn't like it though. I just didn't think it was necessary.

It's like, this thing doesn't want me to ride it. Lincoln rejects the King of Siam's offer of elephants. This is in 1862. Civil War. Abraham Lincoln. Wow. Oh, Civil War? Yeah, I found that camel thing the other day, and I was like, I wonder if they used them here. What, camels?

Yeah, I found something the other day when we were talking about something, and I stumbled across another article that said there were camels in the West, and they used them to travel and carry things to help develop the West. At some point, they abandoned them, and there was like a, they called them the Red Ghost. It was like a myth of this mythical animal that was 30 feet tall, supposedly ate grizzly bears, like I told you. Damn. That was a camel? It ended up being a camel.

Yeah, people were just shooting them on sight because they didn't know what it was. That's crazy, man. So it says Lincoln pointed out that steam power had already taken the need for heavy animal power. Yeah, I was just going to say the train, that's the railroad system coming into play right there. Lincoln was like, fuck you and your elephants, man.

We got trains, dude. Yeah, I guess. But once the battle actually starts, a bunch of, when you hear them trumpet, like we were pretty close to one when it let out, like maybe within like 15 yards. And it just went. And you're like, whoa. Serious animal. In real life, that is so loud yeah they're majestic oh they have like such a presence it was raining out constantly there you know it's during the rainy season so this elephant was moving through this unbelievably beautiful lush green landscape with like fog and mist cool as fuck and then he's beautiful huge tusks and he lets out that trumpet and you're

like whoa that's a crazy animal yeah man it's got a serious presence being around and these dudes just walk right up to him pat it and touch it like they were really well cared for it yeah but we went to a tiger sanctuary i was just gonna say did you do the tiger thing to the opposite the tigers that was no i didn't like that at all. They were drugged up. They were NyQuil-ed up tigers. That was disturbing. They gotta be, man. Yeah. See, there you go. See there?

In war. Well, this guy's got a cannon. He's got a fucking cannon on the top of an elephant. What in the fuck? That dude has a cannon. That is a cannon. That's a legit cannon. There's a Civil War cannon on the top of him.

He's got a machine gun. Look at him. He's got a.50 cal. And what year is this? This is a picture that cannon on the top. He's got a machine gun. Look, he's got a.50 cal. And what year is this? This is a picture that shows up with that. Yeah, with the Lincoln and the elephants. Wow. Trippy, dude. Fucking elephants, man.

A.50 cal. Look at this thing. See? Wow. Look at all the guns. Guns and spears. Look at all the shit in the back. See, there you go. There you go. That's what I was talking about right there. That is the shittiest way to see an army coming towards you. Riding elephants.

It's like Braveheart. He's like, do not retreat. Hold your ground. Fuck you. They're such peaceful animals, too. Yeah. It's such a, they eat so much, too. You can't believe how much they eat.

That's the thing, yeah. Dude, they walk around in the streets of Patia. A handle will walk them up and down the city streets just for like, then they give you fruit to feed them, like papaya. They're like, hey, you want to feed the elephant? And you tip the guy. And you see an elephant walking down the street through traffic in Patia. It's fucking weird.

Huh. It's cool, though. But every now and then, you see them just get pissed. Yeah, did you ever see the Elephants Gone Wild videos? Yeah, when they're mistreated. They start tipping over cars like they made out of cardboard i've seen that stampede and they stomp in their trainers all pissed off apparently they have uh tigers are wild in thailand as well they really do have tigers yeah yeah yeah yeah the tiger is another another one of the thai do you think that it's maybe something in their diet that protects them from staff and

from ringworm and all that jazz in terms of the fighters yeah perhaps because they eat such spicy food is that i was wondering maybe related yeah because they when i tell you thai spice like some of the kids from the camp would literally be dripping sweat eating the spicy. I was. They're sweating, dripping profusely, sweating eating food. I was. When I was over there. Do you like spicy food?

Yeah, I love spicy food. And I told them to go hard. Yeah. I said, do it like you would do it. Yeah. How you like? Fucking juice it up, baby. Yeah.

And they didn't. They fucking, they sent it. I remember one of the first trips we had to Thailand. I was with one of my buddies that went over. And he ordered some dish. And the Thais were like, no, that's hot. That's spicy. And he's like, no, that's all good.

Like, no, no, no, no, no. That's really spicy. He's like, no, no, it's good. I like spicy food. I'll just drink a lot of water or whatever. He goes, even hot for Thai people. And I was like, bro, are you listening to what he's saying? Come on, live and learn. Even hot for Thai. But he didn't know any better. And I was like, bro, are you listening to what he's saying? Like even hot for Thai,

but he didn't know any better. And he went for it. And I'm telling you, bro, there was three of us in a hotel room in Patia, Thailand. And I woke up in the middle of night with him fucking shooting ass piss out of his ass, soaked the mattress,

the bed, the sheets. He's found him in a ball in the bathroom floor, dude. We had to take this kid to the nearest hospital. He couldn't, we had to ride him on the bike. We had to ride three people, one driving the kid in the bathroom floor dude we had to take this kid to the nearest hospital he couldn't we had to ride him on the bike we had to ride three people one driving the kid in the middle and me behind holding him up because he was like out of it from spicy food dude he got so like

it wasn't food poisoning no no it was just the spices just kicked his ass so so bad he probably burnt a hole like an ulcer in his stomach dude he was in the hospital for like three days on an ivy got a bill for like fucking nine bucks and we were out that was a wrap but he never ate the fucking same dish again though spicy yeah i don't fuck with the spices too much i love thai food now like i'll experiment with it but i'm not like if my mouth is so hot and i can't taste the food i don't enjoy it i'm just like that doesn't seem right to me that seems like it would be more of a food poisoning issue it could have been but all I know is that I'll never forget the smell of that hotel room. Oh, that was brutal, dude.

You know it's bad when it soaks through the mattress. And you know what the Thais do? They fucking flip it over. Next. I remember my buddy rented a house, like a little village house behind the camp. And this Australian guy was like was like hey your mate's fucking pretty scrappy huh i was like what do you mean he's like i mean he lives rough man i know what like you like to do the toy thing and you know but you know he's got fucking money you don't

have to live like a fucking bum you know i was like all right why what's money he's like man the fucking house he's living in man a fucking woman died of a fucking snake bite died in her fucking bed got bit by a snake and i'm like what so i told my buddy bro he flipped the mattress over it was fucking soaked in blood they flipped the mattress and they fucking rented to the next foreigner like coming in yeah dude yeah and i remember like literally like like literally like going to visit him and like you know put taking your shoes off going in his little fucking one room hut and then going to put my shoes on back. And he's like, shake your sneakers.

Shake them out. I'm like, what? I shake a fucking tarantula out of my sneakers. You've got to shake your sneakers. You've got to shake your sneakers before you go running in the morning. That was one of the first things I learned in Thailand. Scorpion shit. Dude, the first time I went to Thailand, I was jumping on the tires.

I don't know if you're familiar, but they have a truck tire. They lay down, and they bounce on them. So it's great. What's that for? It's literally like jumping rope. Calf strength.'s literally like jumping rope calf strength it's like jumping rope but it's awesome because it's not pounding on your joints so you get the bounce of the tire and they just kind of alternate stance and you bounce on the tire and it's like you know your warm-up it's part of your warm-up so i'm bouncing on the tires and this jacked tie guy that comes

walking out of the room and he grabs a pair of gloves and they usually put the laces over the ropes they hang the gloves to dry over the ropes and he's like mean as fuck look and he puts his hand in the glove he goes put it he goes ah and he pulls his hand out and a fucking tarantula hit the ground literally you could hear the weight of the spider like boom you're like i heard it hit the cement like the weight of the spider and this fucking thing moved so fast about covered about 12 feet and jumped up four feet into a heavy bag and crawled in between the crack of the leather of the heavy bag. I was like, what the fuck was that? My buddy goes, oh, that's a bird-eating spider.

And I was like, a bird eating? Why do they call it? Wait a minute. It can fucking catch birds? I was like, what the fuck is this? And then literally every time i put my gloves on that i was like peeking them and like tap on it like walk away and like look at the glove like kick the glove a little bit like all right one's good let's try the other one on like every morning just

like shaking scorpions out of your out of your sneakers and stuff you want to know something crazy we never had a rat problem here at all we had nothing and then my dog was here one day. I brought the dog by and Then all of a sudden we started having rat problems weird and then Jamie looked it up and rats are attracted to dog Yes, yeah, I thought the main thing that rats eat is dog shit. Yeah, yeah I was just gonna say gotta be the feces So we literally didn't have any problem and then jamie's like dude there's rat shit here we found rat shit and then uh jeff the other guy works here found uh a rat and killed it yeah he he grabbed it by the tail oh just smack that

motherfucker how gangster is that that he grabbed it by the tail tail poking out from behind a box and he grabbed it and smacked it on the back and killed it. I'm good with rats. But it was because Marshall was running around here that the rats smelled that the dog had been in there and they got in there. Look at this. It's crazy. Dog poop attracts rats because they like to eat it

plain and simple. In fact, dog poop is said to be the number one food source for rats in developed areas. Wow. Marshall didn't even shit in here. I would go with just the smell. They might go. Yeah. Wherever there's a smell, like smoke a fire.

He pissed outside and he accidentally pissed in my gym. He lifted his leg to pee on the rogue box, the step up box. And I go, hey, cut the shit. We're inside. And then I took him outside and then he finished his piss. So maybe the rat could smell the piss. I was just going to say, yeah, the rat smells it. That's fucked up, though, man.

That is fucked up. We never had a problem. I wonder how it works with those rat terriers. They have dogs for that shit. Oh, yeah. Little rat terrier. Get a few of those little motherfuckers running around. Those little motherfuckers.

Right? They eat those things. Those little things never shut up, though. Oh. Yep, yep, yep. They're go, go, go. My friend Vicky Lewis from News Radio

one of the actors on News Radio she had a Jack Russell yeah there you go great dog tons of energy it's a big dog in a little dog's body

like a huge attitude like they step up to like big mastiffs and fucking punk them they're cool they're little rat killers yeah they are they're rat terriers

like they're terriers did you ever see that documentary on Netflix about rats horrific really horrific like just in terms of infestation and what not They're rat terriers. They're terriers. Did you ever see that documentary on Netflix about rats? Mm-mm. Horrific. Really?

Horrific. Like just in terms of infestation and whatnot? Oh, it's disgusting how many of them there are in big cities. You realize what a real issue it is. My wife freaks the fuck out if she sees a fucking rat. She's smart. She's smart. Well, we had like a little incident.

We were fucking parked at a parking garage on the 4th of July. We parked the car and we're walking down to watch the fireworks. And she's standing there and she fucking felt something on her foot. And she looked at us like a giant fucking rat chewing on her fucking nail polish. She's like, Jesus Christ. Freaked the fuck out. Never been the same. You literally, like my son Dante, always fucks with her.

He's like, Mom, look at that. And she fucking freaks the fuck out. She's like, Dante, that's not funny. Stop that shit. We all laugh at it. It's fucking hilarious. Deathly afraid of rat. And she's fucking freaks the fuck out. She's like, Dante, that's not funny. Stop that shit. We all laugh at it. It's fucking hilarious. Deathly afraid of rats. Rats are nasty, dude.

They're so gross. Rats are nasty. In the documentary, they use those dogs. Don't they control something in terms of population? They have benefits. They're good at keeping rat populations high. That's about it. What are they good for?

They're good for cleaning up dog shit. That's nasty. I can't even imagine that's their number one source of food? It's gross. What the fuck, man? They must have horrible breath. Yeah. What a creepy little survivor.

But the documentary on Netflix is brilliant. It really is good. And in one of the scenes, they have these rat terriers tearing them apart. Yeah. Where they're digging into these holes and the rats come out and the dogs just grab them and mangle them that's what they're for do you think they're like it's i'm just i just read something quickly and it doesn't really say much you think they just like they eat trash and they help us no yeah no i could throw trash away they do they control some population they they're good. They got to be good for fucking something. I don't know. Well, there's an ecosystem, right?

Yeah, exactly. Every animal has its little spot. Dude, we get the big Boston rats. They literally, like, they fucking punk cats. They look like, they're like the size of, like, a possum. They're, like, way bigger than, like, any jacked up squirrel or anything like that. They're just big, big. The triangle tails, like, nasty, nasty.

They're survivor cats, big, the triangle tails, like nasty. They're survivor rats, rather. They're out in that cold winter, and they figure out a way to get under the ground. Them fucking Boston rats that got accents and shit. They're like, dude, pack the car. Little fucking scally cap on. Running around eating dog shit. Do you ever think about bailing the fucking winters there and everything? Does it get to you?

All the time. All the time. Yeah. I mean, my parents are elderly. Like I got to keep an eye on them and all my family's in Boston and my business is in Boston. But, you know, luckily I travel a lot. So it's kind of like the vent.

You know what I mean? I get away and I'll fucking do like a day or two on a beach somewhere at a UFC event. Like, and, and that'll be like a little recharge. But man, I'm, as I get older, I older i never really was like you know overwhelmed with winters until i started getting older and i'm like dude my body hurts my muscles ache my joints ache the cold's nasty especially that new england cold man it's like wet cold it takes so long you got the fuck out i remember we talked about this you're like fuck winter fuck snow like fuck Well, here's the thing. I like some places where it gets cold.

Like, I love Colorado. Yeah, I remember you lived there for a while. I love it. I'd move back there. Jamie and I have talked about it. Like, this shit gets too crazy here. It's a different cold, though. It's like the...

It's fine. Yeah, it's not as bad as like the New England winters. It's just like wet and nasty. Four-wheel drive, snow tires, warm clothes, fireplace, good. Archery. Just do it. It's just in Colorado, it's sunny. Yeah.

That's the other thing. Good point. Colorado's sunny like 300 plus days a year. Boston, you go through months with that gray shit in the sky. So true. We don't see past the clouds. No, you're right. You never see nothing.

Just a dull gray blanket. Hanging over your head, follows you around. And the women, the attitude they have. Like, what are you going to do for me? Well, you wonder why they're like that. It's fucking miserable. Yeah. But I'll tell you what, though.

Boston in the summer, I love Boston in the summer. Oh, it's amazing. As soon as the sun's out, guns out, everybody's running around, girls are dressing half-dressed. Everybody looks happy. Exactly. Everybody's happy. Everybody's chilling.

Boston in the summer is cool. I like Boston. And I'm a Boston native. I always will be true and true, but definitely not a fan of the winters. Do you think you're going to bail someday? Probably, yeah. Where are you going to go? That's a good question.

Possibly. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. You looking for work? You hiring? No. Listen.

If I was going to hire a Muay Thai coach. There you go. Start up a gym. I like it. We do that. I've almost relocated a few times. They could use one out here. Honestly.

Yeah. There's not like a real dedicated Muay Thai gym anywhere near me. Yeah. I got offers, you know, obviously like obviously like working you know for the company whatnot you know some offers to move to vegas and whatnot and at first i was like fuck vegas i'll never live in vegas that's but then i started hanging around with like the right people and like henderson oh dude out of summerland like yeah like lorenzo lives like hanging out going to like football games with lorenzo and the family like dude there's like families little kids riding bikes down the street it's like it's normal it felt normal like summerlin summerlin and vegas felt normal to me like i felt like i could actually live in summerlin like you know the thing about it is i need to be near the ocean all connected

to the the evil dick of vegas you know it's all like all the jizz comes out of the evil dick and that's what powers all those communities. Those communities wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the casino. You're absolutely right, man. The worst is seeing the locals get their check on Fridays and they go right to the fucking casino and they just blow through it. It's fucking

sad to see, man. Vegas is a fucking weird place, dude. I'm way over Vegas. People are like, oh, you're going to Vegas? That's fucking awesome, dude. I've never been there. I'm like, dude, it's nothing awesome about fucking Vegas. Well, the good parts are really good. Like the restaurants are amazing.

Vegas has some of the best restaurants. They still have 24-hour pool halls. I was just going to say, that's one thing that I like about Vegas. Nothing's ever closed. You want a fucking burger, it's fucking 4 o'clock in the morning. Go fucking get a burger somewhere. You want to go go out you want to have a drink you want to play pool like we've done many times like late at night middle of night that's what I love about I'm a night owl for sure like I don't sleep uh like well at night like if if I were to choose

like just to like operate like from from uh sunset like sundown like to sun up like and then sleep all day like I would like other than laying in the sun like i'm a night owl for sure but that's the one thing i do like about vegas so it's nothing nothing's ever closed it makes you feel weird like why can't i buy a drink at 3 a.m yeah exactly why do you why how come i can't have a beer when i want to have a beer am i a grown man yeah exactly it's like after two everybody gets crazy yeah stop stop it time yeah or like we tell you, you got to go to bed. Yeah. It's over.

As if it's going to give us structure and teach us lessons. But I guess it does. It does, right? Like the gambling thing. The thing about gambling is if gambling was everywhere, then it would normalize. Right. But it's not everywhere. It's just in a couple spots.

So when you get to it it that's when people are like up playing cards at five o'clock in the morning bleary-eyed yeah betting their mortgage yeah pumping oxygen into the casino so many people go there and lose everything everything they have i can't even fathom that like it happens all the time you see it no not really you know i mean i'll i'll entertain and play like some blackjack or something like that if like my buddies are playing, but I'm not really like, I don't, I don't go out of my way to gamble. I like bets on fights. I was just going to say the same thing.

I like betting fights. I like doing stuff like that or just whatever bets with friends, whatever. But betting fights just makes it more interesting. Absolutely. Like, you know, like, yeah, give me a 50 bucks on this. And then while you're watching it, you're like, come on, come on. Exactly. Yes.

Yes. I agree. And then you always feel real sneaky when you get a shit decision. You're like, ooh, we won that one. We didn't deserve it. My buddy, one of the guys I train, Rico DeSulo, he bets fights, and he is fucking spot on, man. He doesn't miss.

Really? Oh, dude, he can. Literally, I consult him. Because, you know marin in the truck i'm always betting with marin or i was just like betting on fights and uh i just i go right to my buddy rico i'm like rico what do you got what do you like did you consult him about this weekend uh yes and he was spot on with every fight except for one i think uh uh nicola matthias nicolo who uh got caught by uh dustin ort. I think that was the only fight he missed.

That was a crazy head kick. It was, man. And he set it up nice, too. He set it up real nice because it almost looked, it was like delayed. It's almost like one speed, and then it changed direction. It changed speed, and he went high with it. He set it up good. It was done well. Yeah, it almost like, not a question mark kick, but it looked like he was going to the middle.

Bring that up real quick, Jamie. He went up high. Take a peek at that. Because it's like he was establishing to the middle. Bring that up real quick, Jamie. Take a peek at that. Because it's like he was establishing like a low kick at first, and then it's almost like he went to look like he was going to throw a low kick, and then he changed the speed of the kick. I call it like the delay. If you delay the kick and you change the timing of the kick, it's hard to read.

That's how he caught him. He actually had a glove up too, oddly enough, but it went right through the glove. Yeah. It was a good angle. Dustin looked good though, man. He looked real good glove up, too, oddly enough, but it went right through the glove. Yeah. It was a good angle. Dustin looked good, though, man. He looked real good. Yeah. Yeah.

He's a stud, you know? Yeah, he really is. Well, they need people at that weight class. Yeah. Who the fuck is there? Yeah, you're right. After this weekend? Yeah.

Who's there? You know? Good question. I mean, unless TJ comes down or Cody comes down, depending upon who wins this fight. Yeah. Apparently, they can both make the weight. And that's another thing too. Wasn't Demetrius concerned with that?

He's going to commit to having a fight with one of them and then go through a full camp and then they miss weight and then he's fucked. So he said like, take a fight. Yeah. Fight it. Fly it. I agree with that a hundred percent. I do, but I don't think they would miss weight.

Those guys are super professional. Both of them are. And TJ had already said he'd made the weight before. He has. Yeah guys are super professional. Both of them are. And TJ had already said he'd made the weight before. He has. Yeah. Wow. He's tried it.

Yeah. Yeah, he's got that. Interesting. Well, he seems smaller than he used to be. I was just going to say, yeah, he's definitely a lot leaner than he used to be. Is this it here? Yeah. What part of the fight do you want me to get to? They have these little things.

Just the knockout itself, the finish. The Dustin Ortiz finish against Mateus Nicola, was it? I don't know why I'd go to that. This is a chick fight, dude. You don't know what you're doing. You son of a bitch. That kid, Mateus Nicola, he trained. He came through the gym through a couple of my Brazilian students,

Saul and Rodrigo. Here it is. This kid's tough, man. So Dustin, that was an impressive win. Yeah, I mean, they're literally See how it kind of delayed? Did you see that? Play that back again.

He changes speed in the kick. I noticed that in the replay when we were calling him. I was like, look at this, how he does this. Let's see here. Watch the speed change. You see it? That's what made it difficult to read. It also came up at a weird angle. Yeah. It's right here. Watch the speed change. You see it? Yeah, yeah. In the beginning. That's what made it difficult to read.

It's kind of like... It also came up at a weird angle. Yeah, it did. Yep. It came up like at a 45 degree angle. Yeah. He won't let go. Nope.

Did he bonus for this fight? I don't know. I do not like bonuses. I do not like win bonuses. I don't like them. I don't think win bonuses... Why is that? Because I don't think you should be paid more to win.

Everyone's trying to win. I don't think you should lose because a fucking judge who has no idea what they're talking about. Look, he blocked that fairly decently. Yeah, yeah. He had the glove up. And still got KO'd. Right through. Or just got rocked.

I don't think, especially since they haven't dealt well at all with the judging issue. I mean, they really have done a terrible job with judging. Yeah. These state commissions. Yeah. There's so much bad judging. I agree. So if you have three people, I think the system sucks.

I think the judging system itself, the 10-point must system is outdated. It's not right for MMA. It's great for boxing. It's not good for MMA. Yeah. I think it needs to be revamped and restructured, and I think it should be a completely different system. And then I think on top of that, the judges are incompetent.

There's so much incompetence. I was just going to say it's incompetence is what it really is. You have those factors, and then you have win bonuses. So you have bad decisions all the time, and then with these bad decisions, you give a win bonus to the wrong person, and the wrong person gets fucked over. And the swing is half the pay.

Yeah, and at their level, the pay scale, it's just like they're already making fucking peanuts. Yeah, and if you're not making peanuts, it costs you more. It costs you $100,000. It costs you even more than that. If you make $150,000 and $150,000, and then you should have won a fight, and you lost. You lost $150,000 because those three people are incompetent.'s right exactly because they did a fucking eight hour course on a saturday never fucking put a glove on they don't care this is the thing they're not they're not fans yeah they just do that because that's their job and it's a cool job yeah i mean it's tell their boys

it's a cool job there are some judges that that do know what they're doing so they're not there's a small handful yeah there is there is. And they have to helicopter them in. Pretty much. It's a crazy system. The system badly needs to be updated. I don't understand why they haven't. It just doesn't make any sense to me. I'm with you, homie.

But I don't like the win bonus thing, man. I just think you should get paid. It should be a flat rate like it is in boxing. I don't think it incentivizes people to fight harder. I don't that i think the winners are always going to try to win you know i don't and and i think and it's like i said about fighting like don't don't fight technical you go out there and you let it all hang out yeah uh-uh don't do that yeah you're gonna have a nice short career if you do that true and that's what happens to those guys it does yeah it's good for the business it's good, yeah. It's good for the business. It's good for the company.

It's good for that night, the views, the way the people are watching. It'll be a little bit more entertaining. But you're not going to make it. You're going to leave half your brain in that octagon. That's another thing, too, man. We talk about that all the time, too, is seeing these guys take trauma the way they do, man. It's hard to watch man as much as we've we've spoke about this briefly in the past but uh you know as much as a fan as i am and as is involved as i am in the sport man it's it's hard to watch

sometimes man seeing these guys take the damage they do you know i remember like i told you i think i told you a story before marcus davis after his fight coincidentally enough i believe with chris lytle he lost his sense of smell for like seven months he couldn't he couldn't smell remember i told you about this but you know he couldn't smell like anything which means you can't taste so like he would he'd be like bro i'd smell like shit and like people would have to tell me like bro you fucking stink and then he'd be like i put on too much cologne and be like bro easy on the cologne like he had no clue like you couldn't taste. Lemonade tastes like fucking fruit punch. He had no fucking clue. He had no sense of smell or taste.

Whoa. For seven months. Imagine that. Lazy came back. Thank God it did, yeah. But he even said, I was like, would you miss the most? And he's like, the smell of my daughter's hair. And I was like, whoa.

I was like, that's fucking trippy, dude. And he kept fighting after that. I was like, check, please. I'm all set. And he kept fighting. Dude, that was, I don't want to say early in his career but maybe halfway through well he again came from that school of hard knocks in boston with the joe lake yeah exactly yep hard sparring you know hard training and that's what i was saying about uh jeremy stevens

earlier to bring it all back around jeremy spars hard hard. I was talking to Jocko about it. It's like Jeremy's an animal. I remember discussing that with Lorenzo back in the day. He went to Brazil when they were doing the Aldo pieces and whatnot. He went to Novendown. He said, man, these fucking guys kill each other in the gym. It's like literally they're 100% headhunting, trying to kill each other. I don't agree with that at all, obviously. No, not good. It's like literally like they're 100% headhunting, trying to kill each other. I don't agree with that at all, obviously.

No, not good. It's horrible. And there's so many guys that get really badly rocked on their way to fights. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then. All the time. Sometimes if a guy takes a big punch and he gets a flash KO in the gym, if we got to pull him from a fight because of that, because he's affected at that point.

It's still, there's residual there. It's still lingering. No way around it. No way around it, man. I even had a student of mine, my guy Tommy, he had gotten into a car accident a week before his fight. And this kid's got a granite chin and he got caught. And we attributed to the impact of the car crash like we said it had to have been like you suffered some head trauma

because he hit his head in the car crash and he was susceptible he was vulnerable to the ko because of the trauma that he took so you're taking big punches in the gym like that and then you go on on fight night it's that much easier for you to get lights out you know yeah 100 but it's it's so hard to make a tough elite fighter without subjecting them to yeah exactly well you see like robbie lala like like he's talked about he doesn't spar anymore like well he didn't for a long he didn't for a long time he did when he went to att okay but he for a long time he didn't yeah yeah like all through his strike force career he didn't spar which seems crazy like i already know how to fight okay i'm not gonna argue with you yeah i'm just gonna say that boy can't fight you can't argue with I already know how to fight. Okay, I'm not going to argue with you.

Yeah, I was just going to say, that boy can't fight. You can't argue with that. He definitely knows how to fight. He can fucking fight that guy. You know? He's had a lot of tough fights. That's why I was so impressed with what Rafael Dos Anjos did to him. It's like Dos Anjos just sort of dismantled him.

I didn't see that coming. And then Colby Covington dismantled Dos Anjos. I was like, what in the hell? He took him apart. Dude, gas tank for days yeah relentless fucking pressure i got tired watching the fucking fight i was gassed in the truck like meanwhile dos anjos known for his cardio he's one of nick curson's uh pupils so he's like you know trains in that marmorinov. I honestly like around the second round,

I was like, there's no way he can keep this pace up. He's got to fade. And he never fucking faded. He never faded. Did you see him hand the belt? I was looking at it on the way here. I was looking at it.

I was like, that's crazy. It said something like an MMA junkie. Like he comes through with his, as, as, as stated, he comes through.

And I was like, he's going to bring the belt to the white house. He's got fucking Donald Trump with a strap over his shoulder. It's so funny, man. He's a madman. He's got the MAGA hat on. He's got the red hat on. Dude, he's fucking sold it, man.

He has, man. And you've got to remember, early in Colby's career, he wasn't like that. He wasn't like that. He just figured it out. Where did he come from? I know he's at ATT. Oregon. But where was he training before ATT? That good question i do not know because he kind of i don't want to say came out of nowhere like he earned his way in but he really like it was like

it's so funny that a red hat with white letters can get you punched now i mean it could say anything well this girl had a hat on that said, Make Bitcoin Great Again, and they fucking pepper sprayed it on her face. Make America Great Again. But a red hat with white letters is racist now. That might as well be a Nazi flag to some people.

It's gone so crazy. It is crazy right now, dude. It's such a topsy-turvy world we're living in. Burning flags and shit. It's ridiculous. Well, listen, brother, we gotta get out of here. Yeah, we gotta go to the weigh-ins, man. We gotta get to the weigh-ins. It's 3 o now, dude. It's such a topsy-turvy world we're living in. Burning flags and shit. It's ridiculous. Well, listen, brother. We got to get out of here. Yeah, we got to go to the weigh-ins, man.

We got to get to the weigh-ins. Is it 3 o'clock today, right? I believe so. I think 3 o'clock at the Orpheum. Yeah, and it's probably a three-hour drive. Delegate Karate. Sit your tongue in Boston. Tell people how they can get to your gym. Look me up, man.

Facebook. Literally one of the very best Muay Thai gyms and MMA gyms on the planet Earth. Thank you, my brother. And it's in somerville uh spell it s-i-t-y-o-d-t-o-n-g yes and uh it's in boston massachusetts awesome don't sleep mark delagrante love you buddy love you bro thank you absolutely let's do it