The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #38 with Gaston Bolanos & Kirian Fitzgibbons

Episode Date: August 6, 2018

Joe is joined by Bellator fight Gaston Bolanos & head coach/owner of CSA Gym, Kirian Fitzgibbons.

4, 3, 2, 1, YEAH! And we're live gentlemen. What's up? What's up boys? Good to see you again. What's happening? Happy to be here, man. Happy to have you here, man. You are the only guy right now that I know of that is fighting at the highest level in three combat sports. Correct. MMA, Muay Thai, and kickboxing. That's fucking crazy.

Thanks, man. How do you keep your head together? I don't know. Like, last time warming up in Rome, actually, was the first time, like, warming up for a kickboxing fight. I threw a spinning back. I was like, I better not do that shit. Yeah, spinning back elbows, no bueno in a kickboxing.

You could do a spinning back fist, though, right? I did, which I landed two of them in my last fight. Do you see what's happening lately where a lot of guys are hitting foreheads with their arms and snapping their arms? Paige did it. Obviously, who else did it recently? Paul Felder did it. A couple guys have done it. They spin and you catch foreheads, and that is not a good combination.

I feel like the kickboxing glove protects you a little bit more than the MMA glove probably does. Four-ounce, ten-ounce, there's a little bit of cushion there that might protect you a little more yeah it's still i don't know it's still something that you know when i first started fighting kickboxing he was like i don't know i'm gonna be careful with it because i would like kind of catch like the middle of my arm right it's you know it's a little it's a little different than the spinning elbow which is in my, a lot more safer to throw. Now, what happens if you throw a spinning back fist in kickboxing and you really kind of catch them with the meat above the elbow? It's illegal.

It's legal or illegal? No, it's illegal. It's illegal. But what about here? No. You have to, based on whether it's Glory or it's K-1 or it's Bellator, it has to be with the back knuckle, back of the pad of the glove. It can't be the side? It cannot be a hammer fist.

That is illegal. Ooh, that's weird. You'll get a point deducted. And if you cause more damage, then you might get DQ'd. Yeah, when Sato knocked out Joe in that Bellator fight, if you watch it, it was a hammer fist. And there was a lot of talk about whether it was legal or illegal, but it wasn't a back fist. It was a hammer fist. Hmm.

Yeah. It's not. Yeah, it's illegal per ISKA and most governing bodies. So when you knocked out Joe Schilling? In that kickboxing fight when they first fought. So because they spun and because he landed with the back of the hand or the side of the hand, it's actually illegal? It's considered a foul. Did anybody bring it up?

They mentioned it, but I think at that time, Joe had come off of that Simon situation with Lion Fight and he was like, move on. I got knocked out. It is what it is. So he didn't make a big deal about it. That dude hits fucking hard. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, and Joe's so reckless. He's so aggressive. He has these moments of extreme emotion. And that dude, he wanted to knock that dude out so bad. After he got knocked out in the MMA fight, he wanted to knock him out in his rules. And I think that's what you saw with Cody this weekend, too. Too much emotion in one fight.

Yeah, man, We were talking about that And watching the replays Like you could see In his face That every shot He was trying to knock him out with As soon as I saw him walk I mean not walk out

He looked okay walking out As soon as like The bell rang I was like He just did He looked a little stiff Yeah You know

And I was hoping Like he would shake it off Get in the rhythm Like land a couple j. Yeah. You know, and I was hoping, like, he would shake it off, get in the rhythm, like, land a couple jabs. Just like, you know, we were working on when I sparred with him a couple times leading up to the TJ fight. I'll go up to Alpha Male to do my wrestling and a lot of my grappling. You know, they have so many 135, 145 pounders up there that, you know, only an hour, half a way drive. Right. It only makes sense to go up there and exchange knowledge.

So as soon as I saw him walk out and start the fight, I was like, I hope he just shakes it off and gets into his groove. When he fought Dom, that was artwork. That was incredible. He just let him come to him. What was his game plan? Knock his fucking ass out, bro. No.

He wanted to use more wrestling from what we were talking to Danny and all those guys about. He wanted to use more wrestling. He threw a lot of kicks. Yeah. He wanted to kick a little bit as well, but he also wanted to just do the same thing to what he did to Dom. Just kind of like piece him up. I mean, considering the last fight, he almost finished him in the first round right when they first fought he was like i can i can do this i can finish this guy well i think he could finish anybody yeah but it's he's got to go about it the

right way yeah and i thought he was going about it the right way initially with the kicks yeah and i was like look even if these are just landing on the arms like these are going to soften tj up these are brutal he was throwing some brutal kicks, and it was a totally different thing. He was adding a whole different aspect to the fight that he did in the first fight. And it wasn't... When he started throwing the kicks,

I was like, yeah, there's the game plan. I see what's going on. Beautiful. And then when he pointed to the ground, and he was like, yes, you couldn't touch me. I'm like, oh, he's starting to get in his rhythm. But that's what I hate about immediate rematches after a knockout. It's just, it's still in your head.

It's just the confidence level, the anger, the emotion. Like, you know, Henry, two, three years between his fight with DJ where he got, you know, finished in the first round. More fights, fighting some other people. He was a different human this time around. Absolutely. But if he had fought DJ the very next fight, who knows how that goes. Right. But that would be hard to sell, right?

Unless Henry was the champion and DJ took the crown from him. This was the whole idea was that Cody had beat Dom, Cody was the champ, and that Cody was defending the honor of Alpha Male, and TJ was this snake in the grass they were going to put away. That was the whole idea behind the Ultimate Fighter. I don't think there's ever been a fight, other than maybe Ronda and Misha, that had more emotion, just more... Bad blood behind it. The Ronda and the Misha thing might have been worse.

People don't remember how hated Ronda was after that Misha fight because she wouldn't shake Misha's hand. Yeah. Like Misha tried to shake her hand and Ronda was like, bitch. Good idea. And just walked away from her. And everybody was like, whoa. And like while I was interviewing her, it was just boo.

Like the whole audience was booing. Those emotional fights, they're so compelling to watch, but man, they're so fraught with peril for the fighters. Absolutely. If you look at his face, this kid has 50 fights. He has 50 fights, amateur, Muay Thai, MMA, kickboxing, back to a junior. The only scars you're going to see on his face are from a fight where he fought Damian Early, whose brother had beaten him.

That was a lion fight. That was a lion fight. I saw that fight. Yeah. I was very angry. He was very angry. I wanted to put him away. Why?

I dropped him, what, twice, once? Because Gaston was a rising star in a lion fight at the time. And the family, the Earlys, the Chastains, and everything's cool now. But at the time, the parents were very aggressive everything's cool now but at the time the parents were very aggressive online towards gaston they were like his parents were yeah they won't fight gaston won't fight our boy well one you're not even in his weight class you know and then you know they said oh we can make the weight so okay if you make the weight we'll take the fight and they made the way they made the weight but it was the one, and I've said it since. What was the Eddie thing too?

Yeah, Eddie. Eddie who? Eddie Abasolo, one of my teammates. We've been training together for what, like five years now? Yeah. And what was the problem with them? They fought. Damien and Eddie fought at 155 pounds, which is what Eddie,

they both fought at that weight. He wanted to come down to fight me. But Eddie landed an illegal elbow in the back of the neck. It didn't seem like it was that hard, but it ended the fight, and Eddie got DQ'd, and then they were just talking mad shit, saying, oh, you know, you did that on purpose. And, like, Eddie, if you meet Eddie, you'd be like, he's the coolest guy ever. He's a smooth fighter, man.

Silky smooth, that's his nickname, Silky Smooth. Amazing, man. Silky smooth. That's his nickname. Silky smooth. Amazing. Yeah, he seems so chill in there and just really knows how to pace himself and just extend his energy perfectly. I mean, really interesting fighter to watch. He's my favorite people to work with. Yeah? To train with? Yeah.

Yeah, he's such an amazing human being. And the best part is that Gaston hated him. I hated Eddie. Why? I hated Eddie. Was it the brains? No, it was his pre-braids, Eddie. Yeah, so growing up as an amateur, Eddie started, what, like two years after I did?

Yeah, about two years after I did. And I always shake his hand and stuff like that when i saw him but we the camp that he was from his coach hated me did not like me at all yeah and uh so gaston was fighting in san francisco and it was the first time that gaston ever got knocked out and he got knocked out he was supposed to you know there's and gaston at the time, locally in the Bay Area, he was the guy. You know, the amateur kid. He's a star. Everybody loves him.

18 years old. Beating everybody. Fighting anybody in any weight class from, you know, 137 to 150. I would fight anybody. I didn't care. I was just trying to get the experience. The first two years of my junior career. No.

So the first year I fought as a my junior career no so the first year i fought as a junior i beat pretty much every everybody my age and back then the rules were like if you're under 16 you can't if you're under 18 you're a junior you're gonna get me in trouble man yeah so we we just faked my my birth my my that happened my birth certificate so often yeah so i was 18 i was 18 two years before that i was 18 yeah i haven't fighting adults early That happens so often. Yeah. That happens so often. I was 18 two years before that I was 18. Yeah, I had him fighting adults early. Why do people do that?

Nobody would fight him. He couldn't fight. He'd beat everybody junior. So we said, okay. So we made him 18, and he fought, and he got knocked out. He cut too much weight for a fight. You know, you go as you learn. He cut down to 37, and it was a little too much.

What was your walk-around weight? Well, the thing is I was planning on fighting. What was the camp that we were fighting, Maesh? Yeah, Maesh. So we were supposed to fight at 142, which I was fine with. At the time, I probably could have made 135, but the week of is like, hey, your opponent dropped out. His teammate will fight you, but he'll fight you at 137.

Oh. Yeah. And, you know, going from – That five extra pounds is a lot. But going from 140 – yeah, exactly. I was like walking around 149. Yeah. Going like another 12 pounds.

At that age, I was like 18. I wasn't – I didn't do it right. I was just like – It just didn't work out for me. Yeah. So he got caught and – I was winning the fight. Oh, yeah.

Absolutely. He was winning the fight. Absolutely. He was winning the fight, destroying. I mean, and again, this guy, I think he works at Walmart now. That's not a bullshit. This is a great kid. Power right hand. No disrespect to Walmart.

No disrespect. But he got caught. And in between rounds, I could see it. It was like deer in headlight. He just, Gaston was on autopilot. He was winning, but he wasn't there. So he gets caught. He gets dropped. And literally Eddie's camp was just swarmed. The ring screaming and yelling Gaston's out.

Yeah. And I remember clearly seeing Eddie and that guy's corner, like, you know, just like, yeah. And like, he was just part of the camp doing whatever,

but all his friends were doing. And since then I was like, Oh, I hate that. We all, we do not like, we all, we all hated the camp doing whatever all his friends were doing and since then i was like oh that mother i hate that we all i do not like we all we all hated the camp we all hated eddie and then one of one of our team my teammates fought eddie same thing but cut it he thought brooks brooks cut him right on top of the head brooks he had to have uh staples and everything and same thing they were just like treating us like they were the shit.

And I was like, fuck these guys, man. Emotions involved in camps. I mean, it's such a wasted thing. It's definitely bad for the fighters because it creates this added element. Like fighting is hard enough as it is. But when you add all this hate and disdain, the only thing you could potentially do is if you don't have a good work ethic, which obviously you do, it'll get you up. Yeah. You know?

Like, do you remember when Buster Douglas fought Mike Tyson? Mm-hmm. When Buster Douglas was a 42 to 1 underdog, but everybody knew Buster had talent. But he was like a lazy guy. Yeah. Then his mom died. And when his mom died, he just made a decision he was like fuck this you know he was hurting he was in pain and he's like i'm gonna train like a wild animal for this fight

i'm gonna train like i've never trained before i'm gonna i'm gonna train like a real world champion and he came out there jabbing and hooking off the jab and everybody's like what the fuck is going on like the combination that he knocked t out with was like, holy shit. Never achieved those heights again. Only fight I've ever bet on in my entire life was that fight. Did you bet on Tyson? Yeah. Bet the whole bag.

Bet the whole bag. But 500 to win 50 bucks. Yeah, exactly. It's 50 free dollars. Yeah. Crazy. But emotions are never good. I mean, that's like a rare time where emotions were good

because it got a lazy guy to the gym yeah to train like a real professional and the thing with eddie is that without question eddie is the glue that holds our team together he is the best thing that ever happened to our gym because he's like his ego he doesn't like his ego is just like not he'll just do whatever he's like hey you want to work you want to do this what do you what do you want to do he's not there's no like

we're both alpha males at CSA you know like yeah no he's like hey what do you want to do man you want to run you want to work

those are the guys that grow man the guys that grow are the guys that can just chill and help people grow and help people grow and he's helped our team grow so much and when Eddie came to me basically

like we like literally same thing happened with gaston is that because gaston was a little prick when i met him too but eddie he and he'll admit it he was like you know he's just around the wrong people i watched him fight in his last amateur fight and i hated him and i was rooting for him to lose i was literally sitting in the back being a hater going oh this is awesome and he started losing a fight he blew his knee out he started losing and while the fight was his knee out, and he started losing.

And while the fight was happening, I started rooting for him. And I hated him. But his heart and his spirit was the first I ever saw. One of the most talented kids I ever saw. He blew his knee out, blew his ACL, kept fighting through the whole fight. It was one of the most impressive performances I've ever seen. After the fight, I went back into the locker room. He was by himself crying.

His coach wasn't there. His team has left him. His team left him. Because he was undefeated. World champion. World champion, amateur world champion. He had racked up a ton of fights. And his team was behind him because he was winning. But then he loses against the guy that he had beaten before.

Yep. And then his team was gone. And I went back and I told him, I said, listen, I said, this probably doesn't mean much to you. I said, but I want to tell you that I am more impressed with you and losing this fight and what I saw from you than in any time else that you showboated, you won, you destroyed people, the heart you displayed. You are one of the best fighters I've ever seen in my life. Three months later, he hit me up, brought ice cream, came to CSA, and he said, hey, can I train here? Brought ice cream? Brought ice cream. I saw him walk in me up brought ice cream came to csa and he said hey can i train here

brought ice cream brought ice cream i saw him i saw him walked in with his fucking ice cream and i was like what is going on right now gaston why is he here gaston came to me no he did no and he said if eddie trains here i'm leaving he said i'm gone how long did it take you to warm up to him? We sparred once, and Kieran had a real talk with me. He's like, listen, man, I'm the head coach here, and I'm your dad. Relax. I know what I'm doing. When have I failed you? I'm telling you.

If he's who we think he is or we thought he was, I'll know him. He'll leave. But you got to give him the opportunity. And when he's saying that, he's telling the truth. I was his legal guardian at the time. When he threatened to leave, the first question out of my mouth was, are you going to leave the gym or are you going to leave my house? Because you live there too.

He was living with me. I said, so it's going to be weird if you're training somewhere else. How old were you then? 15. I became his legal guardian when Eddie came. I was maybe 18. No, about 18. His parents moved back to Peru, and I became his legal guardian

so he could finish school here in the U.S., and he came to live with me. And I put him into college and all that. Yeah, a year before that. That's a tight relationship. Yeah, a year before that, I was tight relationship a year before that i was commuting so i had i was training at vertex mountain view uh at the time and i was coaching there and he was coaching there uh every couple days and then you know we 2008 happened south korea ifma uh he was the coach for the u.s national muay th Thai team. And, you know, we just clicked.

We were just like, you know. When I met him at Fairtex, I was teaching. I was hitting a heavy bag. He came walking up to me. He's like 14, 15. He's got his picture on the front window at Fairtex Mountain View. So he's, you know, because he's a good-looking kid. He was a surfer and modeling and all that.

So he walks up and he rolls up his shorts next to me. He goes, who are you, man? And I'm like, oh, I'm Kerry. And he goes, oh, okay. He goes, what do you do here? I was like, I teach. He goes, I never see you here before. Jongsanon's my coach.

He starts kicking the bag. Kicking the bag. I'm like, oh, okay, cool. All right, good to know. So then Jongsanon couldn't coach the national team in 2008 in Korea. So as a Fairtex coach, they asked me if I wanted to go. I said, yeah. So I get onto the plane on my way to Korea for the world championships,

and I see this little – At the connection. At the connection. At the connection. At the connection, I was like, why is he here? And I see this little flock, and I'm like, oh, God, I hate this kid. I couldn't stand him. And so we get there, and I'm like, he's going to get murdered, and I'm happy.

I'm glad. He's going to learn a lesson lesson he's a valuable lesson i didn't cut way at the time and i i was fighting the return returning two-time gold medalist at fmo my first ever that was my first grown-ass man his he made his amateur debut at the world championships against the returning champion who was like wasbekistan wasbek Pakistani kid, like really, really good, probably 80 fights. He was 17 about to make the jump into, you know, A class the next year. So I'm literally, I'm writing out his parents' name and phone number

so I can call them after this kid kills him. This is your amateur debut? Pretty much, yeah. Your amateur debut was against an amateur world champion? Yeah. At the world championships. That seems so ridiculous. Yeah, it was crazy.

How do they have that set up? I didn't even know. I didn't even know because I was just going, I was like, I'm just going to, in my mind, I was going to go in there and fuck this kid up even though he was way taller than me. And I wasn't cutting weight at the time. These guys cut weight. They take all those countries, the Eastern Bloc, they take it very seriously because if you get a gold medal there you're pretty much set for life yeah muay thai is huge internationally most people don't

understand it at that time 2008 2009 it's kind of the dark era of international muay thai here in america the united states muay thai federation which is kind of like the olympic the u.s olympic committee because it's not an Olympic sport yet. It was literally who can afford to go. There's no government funding. There's no, there was no selection process. And literally we had a team of six people, right? Thailand's got 40.

Russia's got 50 people. We went there with six people. And Anthony Lin, who was the president of Fairtex USA, was the founder of USMF. He was the poster boy at Fairtex just as a kid, and he didn't have any fight shit. He was just a good-looking kid that kicked really well. He said, I will take him over there. It'll be a good experience for him.

The whole time, I'm like, this kid's going to get fucking murdered. No way. I mean, I had no idea what I was walking into. I had a few smokers. How did it go? He goes out. I wanted him to tell me. Oh. I wanted him to tell me. Oh, you wanted him to tell me.

Go ahead, Tom. I go out there. I just get hit, and I was like, holy shit, this guy hits like a man. He hits really hard, but I just didn't care. I just went in there, and I gave it all I had. I really did. And I was really disappointed in my performance because I really, truly believed I was going to win the fight. I went in there to win, though i had no not not much experience i didn't have 80 80 fights

like this i had zero i had maybe a couple smokers right uh two amateur fights when i was like 12 and 13. but that's about it and one boxing fight but that was it this guy had 80 and a lot of them were probably professional fights too absolutely like there's no such thing as amateur muay thai in in in europe like i mean yeah they consider like b class but they still fight without shin guards they still do all this and like when they go in there they they're going in there to win and i thought i mean i lost i knew i lost the fight but i lost a split decision which was crazy yeah crazy to go in there against – I mean, I knew something was up when I saw my matchup was announced.

And this guy, he didn't have his full name. They only had his first name. I was like, they know this guy. I was like, is this a Gaston Boulanger against – what was his – Oybek or something like that. And so whatever happened to him? I think we saw him the next year. The next year he went into adult class.

So there's B class and there's A class. A class is where most of the pros go. Right. He went straight into A class after fighting me. His coach beat the shit out of him after winning a split decision against me. Just beat him. Destroyed him? In front of you guys?

In front of us. In the locker room. Because he heard I was, that was only like my third fight, or like my amateur debut. Right. He was like, and you know,

Americans were in the really. So he beat him in front of you? Like, how so? Beat, like just slapped the shit out of him. Like, one of the worst things I've ever seen.

Yeah. Yeah, it's very, very different over there. And in the fight, the crowd got behind Gaston, because he was doing very dynamic things. And I was really small, too. I was only like, what, 5'5", 5'4", at the time.

This guy was like 5'11". And in between rounds, my light switch went off with him because literally I go in between rounds and I go, look over there. I said, look, this is the previous world champion. I said, you are going toe-to-toe with him. I said, he is tired. And he looks up at me. He goes, Gaston, I'm not tired. Americans don't get tired.

I'm like, number one, calm down. You're Peruvian. Okay, take it easy. Number two, you're the cutest thing ever. I love you to death. And from that moment on, this kid has literally been my son. And what sealed it for me is while we were backstage, this kid was getting beat within an inch of his life by his coach.

Gaston takes off his jersey, walks over and interrupts the beating and gives his jersey because that's kind of customary to exchange jerseys. You interrupted the beating? Yeah. How long was this beating going on for? So they walked off he wasn't even like his his team had kind of left him too his coach just walked him back and just like started slapping the shit out of him and then i stopped and i was like here's how long was he slapping

him for well like the walk back was like what like a 10 minutes yeah and just like yelling smacking him for 10 just berating him yeah yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's bad. Everybody was like, oh, shit, what's going on over there? Yeah, that's not the best way to motivate someone. Definitely not. He won the whole tournament. He won. Yeah. I was probably his toughest fight, though.

Man. Yeah, the crazy thing about that is this you know in america people don't even understand that muay thai could be that big somewhere else that it could be that important to people you know it's muay thai is a mystery to me in in the sense that i just don't understand why it never caught on i really don't get it i think it's it think part of it's the music. Part of it's the ritual. Part of it is just the way MMA blew up. I mean, if you look at the- Do they go through all the Y crew and everything in Europe?

If it's Muay Thai, yeah. If it's kickboxing, no. But if it's Muay Thai, yeah. But he was the first, literally, he was the first junior that the U.S. ever sent to the World Championships, ever. He was by himself, and he was the first junior that the U.S. ever sent to the World Championships, ever. He was by himself, and he was the only junior ever. Today, there are 16 juniors fighting in Thailand at the Junior World Championships. They went 8-0 today. So there's some momentum.

Huge momentum right now. But not in the public. So it's in the fighters themselves. Yes, it's not publicly known, but right now, the best junior team at the Junior World Championships is the United States of America. Have you thought about that, though? Why is that? Like, why? How come no one can figure out a way to make it exciting or make it, put it on television and let people know, like, hey, this is probably one of the most dynamic combats, definitely one of the most dynamic combat sports in the world next to MMA.

A lot of it has to do with money. Promoters will come in and they will be the next best thing. Lion Fight got it right the most, and then they lost the AXS TV deal. What happened with them? If you ask Lion Fight, they lost the deal because AXS TV deal. What happened with that? If you ask Lion Fight, they lost the deal because AXS TV wanted too much commitment. If you ask AXS TV, Lion Fight was canceling too many shows. It depends on who you ask.

So now what are they on, like ESPN3 or some shit? No, Flow Elite Combat, Stream. Nobody knows about it. Yeah, which is a shame. It's hard to get people to watch it on AXS TV. I mean, AXS TV is a fairly fringe cable channel. Yeah. Nobody knows about it. Yeah, which is a shame. It's hard to get people to watch it on AXS TV. I mean, AXS TV is a fairly fringe cable channel. Absolutely. It's, again, much like MMA.

I mean, it was the right place, right time, right recipe, ultimate fighter on the right night, and great fight at the end, and all of a sudden everybody's talking about it. You know the story better than anybody. That hasn't happened for Muay Thai yet, and it's a shame. And I've been around it now. Coach Miriam, Kevin, you know, these guys have carried Muay Thai on their shoulder for years. Nobody knew who it was.

How does Bellator's kickboxing ratings do? Honestly, I mean, it does as well as maybe a two-year-old rerun of Cops does, unfortunately. You know, it does better than Glory did well this is why well that's weird right yeah why why does it do better than glory um i think just because it ties to the bellator name yeah so joe shilling has decided no more kickboxing he's he's no more muay thai no more is he only doing that yeah He's doing it for financial reasons. He's in his 30s. I think he probably realizes how many years he has left. Five, six years left.

Maybe if everything goes great, nothing gets blown out, and he's just decided. That bothers me. Me too. It's a labor of love for Scott Coker. Literally, he's convinced Paramount to keep it going because they believe in him. He's doing it. Because he started off with kickboxing.

Exactly, because he started out with Strikeforce. Strikeforce was originally kickboxing, K-1. Muay Thai. It just bothers me. I just don't get it. I'm a big fan of boxing. I love boxing. But it's not as fun.

Muay Thai is more fun to watch. It's more exciting, and I used to love watching line fight. I was so happy when it was on. I have all of them recorded on my DVR. And now, good luck trying to find Muay Thai on TV. Yeah, and it's tough. I mean, not to toot our horn, but when it comes to Muay Thai, we're the biggest gym in North America. And we have the most active fighters.

And it's hard to get my people where they need to be. There are other shows. Step Up, Triumphant is on Fight Pass. That's a great show. Friday Night Fights is trying. Lion Fight is still around. I'll always support Lion Fight for, hell, we helped build that brand to the best as we could. But right now, regionally, Dennis Warner in SoCal is always going to have shows.

Triumphant's good. Friday Night Fights is good. Glory, you know, they're not really behind American talent yet. They're just not. Well, the problem is they do a lot of shows in Europe and these European fighters are extremely popular over there. Absolutely. I mean, if they had their druthers, they would do Badr Hari every weekend. Absolutely. I mean, that's what they would do. I mean, that guy

sells out arenas. Oh my God. It's kind of crazy. That is scary. It's so crazy. Jesus Christ. We were just playing a video the other day slapping some hotel desk person and he just walked behind the desk and and smack this guy in the face. He gets arrested for breaking a guy's shin,

stomping a guy's shin in half. He's so crazy. He's like a very odd combination of a lethal fighter and a thug. Yeah, he's both for sure. Yeah, both for sure. And he wants you to know you know what mood is he in today which one's yeah yeah well you know he's the most compelling story right now in uh in european kickboxing yeah for sure oh without question they announced collision two and they

didn't even put his image up and all of a sudden people are excited just because of him and rico's first are they supposed to fight again is that what's going to happen rico verhoeven and him i think that's the plan that's where they're going now he broke his and Rico's first fight. Are they supposed to fight again? Is that what's going to happen? Rico Verhoeven and him? I think that's the plan. That's where they're going. Now, he broke his arm in that first fight. Did they know how? Was that a preexisting injury, or is it just something that happened in the middle of a scramble?

It looked to me blocking a kick is what it looked like to me. And, again, if you block a kick with one, the ulna's not going to take that. It's just not going to. Right. You know, you need to reinforce the block. Rico's a big dude, so he kicks your arm and you don't know rico's unusual too and he's a big guy but he fights very technically and he's got great cardio yeah it moves really well yeah man incredibly well his his gas tank is fantastic for a bit for a big guy definitely yeah when he got hurt bad against jamal

ben sadiq you're like whoa, whoa, this does not look good. Then he came back and stopped him. You're like, that motherfucker's the real deal. Yeah, definitely. He's a beast. But again, America, good guy could go to Walmart. Nobody knows who the fuck he is. He could wander around.

He's one of the best heavyweight kickboxers of all time. Literally nobody knows who he is. It's strange. Without question. Yeah. Yeah. of all time literally nobody knows who he is it's strange you know without without question yeah now when you were training with cody um when you were over at team alpha male what what is the coaching like like how are they how are they doing rounds with him uh well he was doing his sparring separately they brought us they brought me and eddie up just to spar with him uh who is they like who's coaching him? Danny and...

Danny Castillo? Danny Castillo and Chris Holdsworth. So they were essentially his coaches. Yeah, they were coaching him. And so when you were working with him, were they saying, hey, we want to really work on certain things or were they just letting you do your thing?

Were they asking you to... I go up there and like I said, I go grapple. So I was trying to be a good... giving him good looks, give him the switches, give him that TJ shoulder move type thing. Did you practice that stuff or did you? No, I just been one of those guys, like, when Kieran, ever since I started with Kieran,

and I've had to help somebody, like, give him looks. I've just been that guy and I've been good at it. Right, but did you practice TJ's looks or did you just kind of know how to do it? I always switch regardless. Like, it's you practice TJ's looks or did you just kind of know how to do it? I always switch regardless. It's one of my favorite things to do, just offensively and defensively. I love switching. Did you have a traditional martial arts background?

Did you start out with traditional martial arts? I started with Muay Thai. You started with Muay Thai. Interesting. I started with Muay Thai, yeah. The best guys, you know, it's interesting now, the switching thing has become almost like a standard thing. Like with TJ, you never know what he's doing. I mean, he doesn't have like a revert back to stance.

He might stand southpaw. He might stand orthodox. And he can do both equally well. Well, I'm naturally, I ride with my left hand naturally. But I stand orthodox. I surf orthodox. I skate orthodox. Well well there's a lot of people i mean that was what uh eddie futch used to or emmanuel steward rather yeah used to teach

guys to do that he would take a guy who's right-handed and make him fight southpaw it's like you want that lead hand to be your most coordinated hand yeah but we have we have pad sessions that i'll just stand southpaw the whole, and I have no problem with it. I, in fact, love sparring softball, and I love just switching. Do you feel like your straight left hand has as much power as your straight right hand? Sometimes even more. Really? Sometimes even more, yeah.

I feel like I have power with both hands almost equally. It just depends on the angle and where I'm catching. I also try to catch people at the same time as they're trying to get away from my right hand. I'll switch stances and aggressively switch into that left hand and make it a power hand. And they think they're getting away from my power hand, but really they're walking into it and I make them switch into it. Oh. Yeah. Now, so when you were working with Cody, did they have any requests?

Did they say, hey, this is what Cody's trying to work on? No, just really I was just switching a lot, trying to give him that switch hook that he got caught with last time and just trying to be a good teammate and give him head kicks and that kind of movement. And he was doing fairly well blocking kicks, coming back, and trying to wrestle more because I think they were talking about that was one thing that he lacked in the first fight, not wrestling him enough. Yeah.

What happened Saturday was definitely not the game plan. You know, you could see it wasn't anything like he sparred and it wasn't anything like he trained. I think emotion absolutely took over. So what was their game plan? emotion absolutely took over yeah well so what was their game plan i think just piece him up get him you know catch him like the first round but actually finish the fight i think that would have been more the right obviously kick him a lot right and just get him to walk into something try to wrestle him a little bit in there too i think i think tj came out really

smart as well though well tj throws himself into the into the fire, too. He does not play a safe game. Oh, he didn't on Saturday. And I think that he was probably a little surprised just by how unsafe Cody was so early. I mean, that exchange at the end, I mean, TJ's just blocking and looking, and Cody is just going for broke with everything he's throwing. Yeah, and when we were watching the replays, you could clearly see that Cody's path was wider and there was more strain, and then TJ was more loose and he got there quicker.

And the knockdown, the first knockdown when he tagged him with the right hand, that was really where it came from. They were both thrown at the same time. But TJ was also doing a better job of getting his head offline. And the thing is, TJ's relationship with Dwayne Ludwig is very unusual. Those guys are like glue. I mean, they're fucking stuck together. And Dwayne is a maniac.

You know Dwayne. I know Dwayne. I've known Dwayne a long time. We are friends. And when we coached against each other at the Ultimate Fighter, he literally in the parking lot reminded me that he had the fastest knockout in UFC history because he was fucking pissed. He's just one of those guys that—

Who's pissed about what? Just because we were trying to—he had a training practice that he invited all of Henry's guys to, but Henry couldn't come. And I was like, well, I'm going to have Jonksonon come in, and Joe can't come. we were trying to he had a training practice that he invited all of henry's guys to but henry couldn't come and i was like well i'm gonna have johnson on come in and and joe can't come and he's like hey listen i'm gonna whip my dick out right now i'm gonna remind you i've got the fastest knockout in dfc history so you better calm down boy and i'm like well okay but so he's very emotional he's very focused and he's very dedicated to tj so I'm agreeing with you on that but he will go zero like that oh yeah Dwayne's crazy as yeah I know very very very well but what I'm saying

is that Dwayne is obsessed with with TJ's performance and with TJ's improvement when TJ first beat Hennenborough um Dwayne sat down with me we sat down and we had lunch together that day and he was just and it was a fucking big underdog. I mean, Henan Barau was thought to be the best pound for pound fighter, if not number one, certainly number two in the world. That was insane. That was insane when he did that. I was like, Jesus Christ.

But it's also the way he did it. He came out so loose, like he was sparring. He came out like, you know, like the touch gloves, like he was going to do a sparring session. And it looked like a guy who sparred with a fucking hundred rounds. It wasn't, there was no tension to him. It was very loose. He really loves that shit.

He loves it. He's a rise to the occasion kind of guy, TJ is. And that's one of the reasons why I think he really thrived off this rivalry with Cody. Whereas with Cody, especially because TJ won the first fight and won it by knockout you know Cody like had all this inner tension whereas TJ had this inner smile like through the entire process yeah definitely I definitely agree with you and I think Cody was definitely it seemed like he was a little more emotional of the two and one thing that I and we were talking about emotions and fights and everything and

one thing that I always remember when I get emotional, like, and it happens in the sparring sessions. And, you know, it might happen in fights and stuff. And I always remember Kieran telling me, you want to be. That's your phone, bro. No, it's not me. It can't be me. How dare you. How dare you, young man.

Shut that piece of shit up. Now you got Siri going. You don't even know how to use a phone. You're one of those dudes. Oh, I know how to use a phone. You're one-handed it. Like as if no one's going to notice. I am.

I'm getting it out of the way. It's still on. It's dead. I killed it. Go on, Gaston. Anyways, I always remember. I always remember Kieran telling me, because I will get emotional at times, and I will let my Peruvian machismo get in the way.

And I was like, ah! Especially, it will happen a lot with Kevin. When Kevin first came to CSA. Kevin Ross. When Kevin first came to CSA. Man, those were. I would get beat up a lot. Call it tough love.

I don't know what you want to call it, but he would sweep me and beat me up and like – Well, you want him to give it your best. And he made me better. He turned me into a training partner versus like somebody he had to like – he didn't baby me at any moment. He built me into what I am today. We became training partners. But one thing that I always remember from Karen is you don't want to be emotional. You want to be like an assassin.

You want to go in there and be calculated. You want to be yourself because that's when I fight the best, when I'm myself and when I have no emotion involved. yourself because that's when i fight the best when i'm myself and now when i have no emotion involved do you have any sort of a pre-fight routine that you go through mentally in order to get yourself into a state of mind like that you know yeah recently since uh i i lost uh i don't know if you watched my my last year's fight my second uh mma fight with belt right yes i saw i got yeah i got dropped i got submitted you got hit with a wheel kick with a wheel kick yeah i didn't see it coming out i And then you got triangled. I was going through a lot of the time.

I was going through a divorce, you know, very emotional time of my life last year. And then I had to, you know, dig deep and rise to the occasion and, you know, get out of that hole that I was in. So I started grounding my energy before fights. I was trying to, like, trying to visualize and really see myself, you know myself doing the things that I would do because that's how I got a lot of my knockouts in Lion Fight. It was the weirdest thing. I could just visualize and see it. When I knocked out Tyler Toner, I saw that happening before the fight even.

And I was like, it felt like a deja vu moment. Like, oh, shit, I've seen this happen. And I just try to get as calm as I possibly can. I just remind myself there's another day in the office. And, like, I've had almost 50 fights now. And I just know that it's, you know, regardless of what happens, whether I win or lose, I'm going to go out there and give it my best. But what I try to do is I just try to, like, close my eyes and, like, I call it grounding myself. I visualize, like, roots coming out of my feet and like um i call it grounding grinding myself i visualize like roots coming

out of my feet and and hands and i i really like ground myself and ground my energy into visualize roots like yeah yeah like tree roots coming out of my hands and coming out of my feet and i like this last fight was crazy actually i could visualize it like going all the way into the ring and like once i walked in there it just felt like home oh wow crazy yeah and i don't think i told i even told him that is this something that you read how to do or is this something that someone coached you how to do actually my ex-wife taught me how to do funny enough uh yeah she taught me how to do that and i i just like i thought i was thought she's fucking bullshitting. Anyways, I tried it.

Did you try it after you got divorced? Yeah. That's hilarious. Yeah. Thanks, honey. Yeah. He got the roots and he got the cats. Did you call her up and tell her she was right? I texted her a while back and I was like, you were right.

Like, that shit works. That's funny. And it's crazy. I, you know, that along with some alpha alpha brain i go out there and i'm like i'm ready to rock and roll i feel at home now what what i was getting to was that that relationship between uh coach and athlete when it works out great it's so important and when you don't have that like i mean there's no disrespect for to danny cast Chris Holt's work, who are both very good fighters and I'm sure are dedicated. But Dwayne is a different kind of thing.

I mean, he obsesses on various techniques and improvements and footworks and how to change things and how to set things up. He's all day, 24-7. He never shuts off. And the kind of relationship that Dwayne has with TJ is so rare and so beneficial. But the kind of relationship you guys have, this kind of really tight bond between coach and fighter, you can win without it. But when you have it, it is just so powerful. It's so powerful.

It's so powerful. I feel like it's crazy now when I'm warming up. I can see he's getting nervous for me. But I kind of get – I see. I was like, oh, shit, he's worried about me. But it makes me want to go in there and make him proud. I know he's going to be there regardless. It's crazy.

But I can see. He tries to hide. I'm like, oh, I you know like let's get warm but i can i can just see like that like he's getting nervous for me you know and then like i said that just makes me want to do better and go in there and like listen to him and just well you also got to realize how fortunate you are to have found him i mean there's just there's not a lot of great Muay Thai coaches in America. I mean, where I live out here, good luck finding a gym to even train at. I mean, you can go to some guy who's going to hold pads for you. But as far as like legit Muay Thai coaching in the Valley,

I mean, you've got Saxon and Julio out in Van Nuys. But that's a half hour, 45 minutes away from here. Especially with this traffic, man. Jesus Christ. Yeah, that's a half hour, 45 minutes at 2 o'clock in the morning, I should say. At 3, it'll take you two hours to get there. Yeah, I mean, the fact that you just stumbled upon him in this lucky way when you were that young. Well, like I said, we just clicked, man.

We just clicked. After I lost that fight against that kid with 80-plus fights, we just clicked. And then I started. I didn't work my conditioning at all back then. I just ran and trained. That's another lucky thing. I mean, you have a fucking giant CrossFit gym.

You're not just. Your gym is not just Muay Thai. You have a massive fucking gym well yeah I mean we started out at 5,000 square feet then 3 years later we went to 12 now we're at 25 Jesus CrossFit, stand alone and again a lot of my people don't use CrossFit

like Kevin he can't keep muscle on so he power lifts with our power lifting coach Jesse Burdick he doesn't do CrossFit because he needs to keep weight on Gaston CrossFits and then so for us everything what's unique about our gym is that everything's kind of done under the same roof I don't do a lot of guest coaching I'm doing it with the with the alpha male guys because Alex Munoz is coaching wrestling for us and I felt for me that was one area that as a gym we needed to grow

so Alex comes in and coaches so i coach his stand up and it's been a good beneficial relationship for for both gyms um but i don't go there and coach those guys will come down benito works with me now alex works with me he'll bring ricardo ramos who just fought ricardo comes down you know before the wrestling class we'll have a little sparring session, like small gloves. We have a full-size cage, so it's very beneficial. And then we'll just do like a round-robin type of thing. Like one goes in, the other one's out.

And it's great. Like I get really good looks from those guys. What made the decision for you to do three different sports? Like why not dedicate yourself to one? Well, I started purely as a Muay Thai fighter. Right. And then the opportunity to sign with Bellator came in. We always knew that MMA would be, you know, where we would end up.

Why? I just love fighting, man. I love fighting. I love Muay Thai, obviously. If I could just do Muay Thai, I'll probably do that. So if Muay Thai had the same financial possibilities? I used to say that a lot, actually. Let me correct myself there.

But now it's like I feel like I'm getting so much better in completing my journey as a martial artist that MMA is definitely where I want to end up at just alone. And then we have the opportunity with Bellator to do kickboxing and MMA and then maybe do a few Muay Thai fights on the side if it didn't interrupt anything with them. So that's pretty much how it happened. He fought five

times last year. And he fought kickboxing, MMA and Muay Thai. And if he was just like with the UFC, he couldn't do that. I think Muay Thai prepares you better for MMA than kickboxing does, not just because of the fact you have elbows, but also because of the fact of the clinch.

The grappling. People don't understand how much grappling there is in Muay Thai. When you go to Thailand, I went to 6th Hom Pinong, one of the best camps in Bangkok and one of the best camps in the world. They have Siddharth Chai who's like right now the glory champion at 155. But they clinch

twice a day for at least 30 to one hour, 30 minutes to an hour every day. That's a lot of grappling. Yeah, a lot of grappling. So their sweeps and just their ability

to manipulate each other. And I think that's one thing that has helped me, has helped my understanding in wrestling and jiu-jitsu as well. I pick up things a lot faster than your average Muay Thai fighter probably does. Right. Just because of that clinch. So how much jiu-jitsu are you doing?

What are we focused on right now? So we have Monday, about four days a week. About four days a week. About four days. About four days a week of jujitsu. A couple days of just drills and situational sparring. So when you're doing a fight like your last Bellator fight,

which you just won, was it two weeks ago? Three weeks ago? Three weeks ago. About three weeks ago. So when you're doing that, how far out will you just do kickboxing? Like how much time do you give yourself where you don't do anything else?

Or do you still wrestle and still do jiu-jitsu even though you're preparing for a kickboxing fight? I'm fairly new to MMA and to grappling alone. So I try to just keep a couple days a week in there so I can keep it fresh. Because I'm fighting September 29th again, MMA. Who are you fighting? I don't know yet. I don't think we have an opponent yet. It's a month away. They don't give you an opponent? It's like six

weeks away. Eight weeks. My rounds. Something like that. Something like that. What is today? The 5th? 6th of August? 6th of August? 6th of August? Yeah. So it's almost eight weeks.

Yeah. So they give you an opponent, and then you have to decide how to prepare. Like if it's a stand-up fighter, we just ramp up the stand-up more? Well, most of these guys, even the MMA fighters and their stand-up guys, I feel like they're going to try to take me down regardless if they find the opportunity. Once they get cracked, they're going to want to go on the ground regardless. So we're always trying to work on getting right back up, working on keeping control if we're in their guard so we don't get submitted with anything like it happened last year in September 23rd. So we're always trying to work all areas regardless.

As a martial artist, I always want to be ready for anything that could possibly happen. It's a fight, man. Anything can happen. Anything can happen. People always watch tape. As a fighter, I've learned that I can evolve so much in just six to eight weeks,

which is what people have as camps. So you never know who you're going to get when you're in is like what people have as camps and so you never know who you're going to get when you're like in front of them in the in the you know in the cage so i'm always trying to be ready for anything do you think there's ever going to come a time where you get into the championship level where you just stop fighting muay thai and stop fighting kickboxing and just concentrate on mma yeah probably i think i think that there's definitely going to be a time that i'm only going to be an MMA fighter. I definitely see that in the future.

I would also like to be one of the first guys to hold a kickboxing belt. I don't know. Like a belt or kickboxing world championship and be a top contender. I want to be definitely that kind of guy that can prove that they can do both at a super high level. It's interesting. Bellator is really starting to make progress. I mean, they have real legit world-class fighters now. They have Gegard Mousasi's arguably, if not the best, one of the best 185-pounders in the world.

I mean, in my opinion, he's right up there with Robert Whitaker and Will Romero. He's one of my favorites, man. His striking is legit. I'm a big fan of Musashi. Yeah, I am too. He's super well-rounded too, I mean, with everything. And just so calm, his demeanor, his mentality. He's

an assassin, like a legit assassin. As is Roy McDonald. And they're both. That's the car that I'm fighting on. I'm super excited about that, man. It's a crazy fight they decided to make why the fuck would you do that I don't understand why you would take arguably your best two guys and have them fight

and they're not even in the same weight class I mean I guess to make a super fight I think there's pressure with the super fight movement with the UFC for Bellator to keep up I think there's probably and again might not be Scott's idea, might be Paramount's idea.

I don't know. Well, it could very well be Rory and Gegard's idea, too. I mean, they might be saying, hey, let's make some dollars. Well, they called each other out right away as soon as Musashi became the champion at 185. They were like, listen, man, this happened. Rory's a fucking psycho. I mean, he's a legit fucking psycho in the best way possible.

He's a really good guy. Do you get to know him at all you know not not at all wait we're both on the on under uh the monster team with hans and all those guys oh shout out to hans yeah yeah man triumph united triumph united yeah i got it he just sent me a bunch of gloves and shit and you guys were saying his bags are the best bags yeah definitely absolutely his gloves the death adder they go i don't know if i think you i think i saw you have a pair. It's my favorite glove. He makes great gloves.

Favorite glove. He knows his shit. Yeah, definitely. So what we were just saying. We were talking about Rory. Oh, what I was saying is people had this idea of who he was, and then he came on and did my podcast, and people were like, oh, he's fucking normal.

He's a good guy. Everybody thought he was this then he came on and did my podcast and people like oh he's fucking normal yeah he's a good guy yeah like everybody thought he was like this autistic psycho yeah i've never communicated with people just i've never met him but from what i heard from hans he's like a super nice guy very smart yeah very intelligent yeah yeah he's funny actually yeah you know it's just his fight with uh lawler was like one of my favorite fights of all time. Jesus Christ. What a crazy fight, man. First time I ever saw him was when he fought Nate. I was there when Jake fought GSP.

I was cornering Jake. That's Canada, right? It was in Canada, in Toronto. And I didn't know who he was. And I watched that fight from the back, and I was just like, holy shit. This kid is phenomenal. Yeah. And I don't think anybody anticipated his level of wrestling at that time.

I think Nate thought he was going to be able to slap him up. And, you know, after that, I became a huge, huge fan. I mean, obviously, Nate's my boy, and I love Nate. Just wrong weight class. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's one thing to fight Conor at 170, but Rory's giant at 170. And he's also training with GSP and just TriStar. And I'm a giant fan of Firas Zahabi and what he's managed to put together up there in Montreal.

They just have a camp that's just such an elite camp. It's just a different level of just well-rounded fighters. It's a fucking phenomenal place. Yeah, phenomenal, phenomenal coach. One of my favorites. One of my favorite coaches. I'm excited to see Nate fight Poirier. I'm excited to see Nate back.

Yeah. You know? I was wondering. I was like, fuck, man. It's been like two years. Yeah. I was surprised he took the fight. Then I was also surprised that he was mad that they were doing Conor versus Khabib.

Yeah, I didn't expect that at all. They were both mad. Dustin's mad, too. I was like, what the fuck are you guys mad for? Well, I thought Dustin was going to wait to get his title shot, but I guess that fight makes sense, man. He might not have got that title shot, though. Tony Ferguson's healing up.

He's back in the mix. Who knows what's going to happen with James Vick when James Vick is going to fight Justin Gaethje. Vick's on, I think, a 10 or 11 fight win streak. Something crazy like that. Fucking stacked.

That's a stacked weight class, man. And then you still have so many guys that are coming up that are one or two fights away. Then, of course, you got fucking Kevin Lee, who, in my opinion, has the best argument for the next title shot. He's a monster. He's a monster.

His last fight. Jesus. Yeah. So it's him, Tony Ferguson. When Tony's healthy again, Tony's not 100% healthy. But, I mean, Dustin, I think it's right to take that fight because he's not the most compelling guy. I know he wants to, but he just got knocked out by Michael Johnson a year ago. I mean, there's a lot, maybe a little bit more than a year ago.

Just there. Yeah, somewhere in there. But it's like still. And then you've got to remember when Johnson fought Khabib, Khabib mauled him. I mean, there's a lot of people in that weight class. Johnson went down to 45, though, right? Yeah, Johnson's fighting Ph of a lot of people in that weight class yeah so johnson went down to 45 though right yeah yeah johnson's johnson's fighting philly yeah yeah yeah i like that yeah philly's coming down to uh train with us as well but he lost his first fight at 45 to darren elkins and uh and he looked really good physically like he was ripped for the first time he was shredded

but i wonder like man how much does he walk around that he's a big man, how much does he walk around at? He's a big fella. Like, how much does he walk around at and how much is he depleting his body to get down to that 100? That's one thing, like, I don't think, like, some people, like, realize. Like, yeah, okay, you made the weight. You only cut in, like, seven, eight pounds, like, the night before. But when you're depleting your body throughout, like, that camp, I think I can definitely, you know, people ask me all the time, hey, are you going to go to Bantamam and i'm like fuck no man i like i like feeling good throughout you walk around like 162 oh that's not too bad no and that's what people tell me 17 pounds that's what people tell me oh you could probably make bantam weight i was like yeah man but like i like to feel strong

physically yeah mentally strong throughout my camp thing only cut like eight to ten pounds. Yeah, we don't cut a lot of weight at CSA. Smart. I don't like it. I don't want it. And part of it is I got this kid knocked out. I'm telling you right now. As a coach, you have to own it.

It was my fault. Fight week, I'm going to take five extra pounds off of this kid just because he's not going to fight. Okay, then we don't fight. you learn as you go right um so no i i i have a you know 10 rule i'll pull you i like what one fc is doing you know we had ben askren in here and he was explaining how one one fc does these hydration tests and they test you all the time they test you several times they find out what your actual weight is. They test your hydration levels. Like weeks before, right?

Yeah, several times. They moved everybody up a weight class. They kept their champions, but they made Ben, instead of a 170, they made him a 185-pound champ. California is doing hydration tests on fight day right now. Yes. Just fight day. I don't think it works that well. No.

Well, they're also making you not weigh more than 10 percent more than what you weighed in and they've moved up a couple they they don't i don't think they find you you're you're the first time you do it they just like advise you to go up and they don't like i think they don't allow you to fight at that same weight it's still for a 200 pound fighter that's 20 fucking pounds. That's a lot of weight, man. That's a lot of weight. Like, if I pulled 20 pounds of water out of my body right now, I mean, I'd be stumbling into walls. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you're on death's door.

Literally. You're not going to take shots the same way. You're just not. No fucking way. And your organs. That's a big thing. Your organs start fucking up. I know a guy who, well, I know someone who knows him.

He was in a bodybuilding competition and this is a 36-year-old guy who's just amateur bodybuilding competition, got down to a really low body fat and just really wanted to win the competition, won, and then two weeks afterwards, his fucking body shut down. His organs started shutting down.

He had a heart attack. His family found him dead. Just died of a heart attack. 36 years old. Well, the water comes out of the organs last, and it goes back in last. It's also the damage you do to them by depleting them and drying them out. Your kidneys. Going back to that fight that I got knocked out, I cut all that weight.

I made the weight. I weighed in, but I couldn't keep water in. I just, like I was drinking and like, I just felt like shit. I couldn't, like I went to bed

probably like only a couple pounds heavier after cutting like 12 pounds. Yeah. Like I was just, I couldn't keep water in. Like I was trying, You were taking Pedialyte and stuff like that as well?

Yeah. Yeah. He works with Dolce now. Yeah, he works with Dolce now. Yeah, I work with Dolce now and I do it a smart way but back then like we would just do whatever

and Gatorade and anything like and I just couldn't, I didn't even eat that night because I couldn't hold anything in. My stomach just went in such a like stage that I was just like,

ugh. Have you compared methods? Like, have you guys talked to Lockhart and different guys and see how everybody does it? Does everybody do it the same way? No, No, not everybody's doing it the same way. Most people are using a probiotic, right? Probiotic to rehydrate? No, to get your stomach ready to

start digesting food again and all of that. What probiotic do they use? That depends on who's sponsoring them. So for us now you know we're using mike's stuff mike's been tremendous to the team through the years it's all natural i mean you know his rehydration drink is you know water himalayan salt honey you know blah blah blah i'm not going to put it out there but it's all natural stuff and it's all stuff that you're that you're taking during you know you're like i'm always having chia seeds and pink himalayan salt and honey like this like i like i like lockhart but literally I know that he worked with Dustin, and there were three different shake bottles that Dustin had to consume.

Which Dustin? Dustin Ortiz before his last fight, the head kick. You've got to let everybody know. There's a million people listening. A million Dustin's, yes. Dustin Ortiz. Dustin Ortiz. And he had three different shake bottles,

and each one had different ingredients to be taken at different times, and it was just really hard for Dustin to keep track of all that. Is there science behind that, though? That I don't know. I don't know enough about what George is doing. Yeah, I mean, I get that it would be hard to keep track of it, but if there's a tangible benefit to keeping track of those three different things. Yeah, for me, the natural method that Dolce uses is what I'll use if a fighter's not paying

somebody else to do it. So you have this rehydration drink, and you make so much of it, like a gallon or whatever, and you're only absorbing chia seeds, pink Himalayan salt, lemon. Pink Himalayan salt is what you... Yeah. It sounded like you said pinky millen salt. No, pink Himalayan salt. Said it again.

You should hear him ask for pack wort. Can we do pack wort tonight? I get it. You're Spanish. I've only been speaking English for what, like 12 years? Yeah. Come on. I get it, man.

No big deal. Coach, can we do pack wort tonight? Sure. Of course, Gaston. No problem. So, I'm sorry. Chia seeds, pink Himalayan salt. Lemon and honey. Why honey?

What is the honey for? I don't know the purpose behind it. It tastes good. I don't know. Definitely tastes good. I think you're going to take some of the sting off of the salt and just for a little bit of the carb and the sugar. So, right off the scale, you take 16 ounces of the drink with some fruit.

And then you wait 15 minutes. So you're absorbing all the nutrients versus like drinking or eating too much, which is what I used to do. You eat so much right away. Which is probably what happened that one time. I was a fucking mad scientist at that time. I'm like, oh, okay. We're going to take a little bit of this. He gave me creatine.

Because every ounce of carbs, you're going to hold three ounces of water, and creatine is going to make you – Does creatine help you rehydrate? Because it does make you retain water, right? Yes, but if you're not taking creatine normally, it's going to be – but again, at the time, early on in my career, a lot of everything that I've done from hand wrapping to conditioning to hydration,

it's all learn as you go. Creatine does make you stronger. It really does work. But it also makes your face fat. It definitely makes you, you just put more mass on it. That winter coat on. It's a water mass.

Creatine monohydrate, as far as like crealcholine and all that on. Creatine monohydrate, as far as like crealcaline and all that, but creatine monohydrate is one of the only proven supplements legally that can make you stronger. But again, whether or not it's good for you, science says whatever, but at the time.

I think it is good for you. I believe it is. I think it's actually been proven to actually have a – Jamie, Google creatine nootropic benefits because I feel like I remember reading that they're actually finding that there's some cognitive benefit to taking creatine. No, absolutely. I've read the same thing. More water.

Absolutely. Your brain would function better because you know how it is when you're dehydrated. You can't fucking remember. Shit. Yeah. My brain's useless when I'm dehydrated. Well, think about cutting 12 pounds. I used to do it in the old Taekwondo days and fight the same day.

And no rehydration. Didn't know what I was doing. And when I went from 140 to 154, that's when I got good, when I stopped cutting all the weight. Before that, I was just a zombie. And I see it in these guys. I see these guys show up at the weigh-in, and I see their sunken eyes and their sunken cheek.

And it makes me sick, man, which is why I constantly harp on this fucking 1FC thing. You know, when I talk to the UFC guys, I talk to them a couple times. I was like, look, you guys have implemented this unbelievable, innovative, and really just fantastic strategy for cutting out all the steroid use. I mean, what you guys have done is amazing. It's so progressive. You're on top of it.

You're ahead of everybody. And you're really setting the standard. Do that shit with weight cutting. They should, yeah. Do that shit with weight cutting. Don't, yeah. Do that shit with weight cutting. Don't blow up your champions. Move them. Move them.

Move them to just decide. You have real champions. Eight reasons creatine is the best nootropic. There it is. Creatine is a molecule that allows cells to store energy in your brain cells. For use at another time, this extra energy means you can do more work or study more effectively. Unlike caffeine, you don't feel like you have more energy

Okay, this is not a science journal. What is this like someone's blog or some shit as much like negates symptoms of sleep deprivation Oh shit Need some of that sometimes life to I just got back from Thailand I was in Thailand for nine days and I've been back for a week and I still wake up after sleeping for two hours Right and I'm like what the fuck why am I awake and then i go downstairs i'll eat i'll watch tv and i'm like i'll just might as well just work out i'm wide awake and then an hour later exhausted can't can't wait to go to sleep go to sleep four more hours do you train at all out there no i have a i had a meniscus i was just there with my family for a vacation. But I would say a very fascinating thing that happened to me.

I had a meniscus tear, small meniscus tear, and I went running on it. I was doing yoga on it, and it seemed to be fine. Then I ran on it because it seemed like it was just kind of like my knee was just a little sore. And then after I ran on it, it locked up on me, like it was really tight. So I said, fuck, I've got to go get an MRI. So I get an MRI. They say, yeah, you've got a meniscus tear. You can get a menoscopy.

Is that how they say it? Menoscopy? Whatever. Operation. Or we could try exosomes. Exosomes, which is an – Google exosomes so we can explain it in a technical way. But I had some of that shot into my shoulder with miraculous results. I mean, I've had a bunch of different things done to my shoulder,

and then I always wind up re-injuring it partially, and then I'll get more stem cells. This had, by far, the greatest benefit of anything I've ever done. So I get it shot into my knee. When I say within two weeks I had no pain, I mean fucking nothing. Like deep squats, no problem, not bothering me at all. And I was doing only body weight stuff for like six weeks. I need it.

I need to know about it. I'm telling you. Not for me, for my wife. She's my test dummy. Fucking incredible what this has done. I ran yesterday, ran in the hills for the first time in six weeks zero pain zero discomfort i was i woke up this morning saying fuck it better not be stiff i don't feel it man it feels like there's nothing there that's that's impressive regenerative medicine what they're doing what tj dillshaw had done tj dillshaw

went down to panama on two separate occasions to work with Dr. Neil Reardon who was doing that in Panama. Well, they're also doing similar things right now. They're able to do that in Santa Monica but it's under some sort of a test thing. They're doing like a test study to see how this stuff works. But they do it with PRP as well.

So they put exosomes in your body and they inject it with PRP and the PRP and the exosomes work together and Regenerate tissue. It's radical shit, man I mean, it's used to have a meniscus tear your knee was fucked up for months Yeah, and it was it was so stiff that you couldn't walk without a limp. It's not gonna get better in a week This shit was better in a week. In two weeks, there was zero even recognition that there was anything wrong. It didn't feel like there was anything wrong.

Well, that is crazy. It's fucking nuts, man. And this is, you know, here we are in 2018. 2028, they're going to grow you a new fucking leg. I mean, we're really close to some crazy shit. Yeah, I know. Do you know they're repairing completely torn ACLs now? Instead of replacing them.

They just repair them? Your ACL snaps. Yeah. They figured out a way to repair them where they got someone back to the U.S. bobsled team four months after the operation. That's crazy. Fucking crazy. Yeah. They've got guys doing box jumps four months after complete ACL tears.

My wife competed at the CrossFit Games four months after ACL replacement. How'd she do that? Dr. Maury Harwood in Los Gatos. How is that possible? But the ACL would not have been reformed by then. No, she had it replaced. She had the cadaver graph. But the cadaver graph, to understand, is just a scaffolding.

Understood. Understood completely. So it wouldn't have been fully formed by then. Well, see, here's the thing. The way CrossFit works is it's not an impact. It's not a contact sport. Right. So surgery in October, she was competing again in February, right?

So November, December, January, February. And then by the time the games rolled around in July, she was now at like that eight month mark. So eight months is okay. They say six months is when it's really pretty much healed. Right. But she was in the gym the next day, right? Like literally, you have ACL surgery. Well, I follow your wife on Instagram. Jack Jessica. She's a maniac, dude. What is it like being married to a maniac? I made her a maniac.

When I met her, she was a... I bet she did a lot of it herself. No, when I met her, she was a hippie and she was an actress. Seriously. Yeah, but the level of maniac that she has, there ain't nobody making that. No, no, no. That shit's in there. You might have unlocked the door.

There you go. But yeah, there's a fucking room that's always been in there filled with crazy. Oh, no. She's amazing. 43. She's doing her first figure competition now. She took the year off of- What is a figure?

What is that? It goes- Like a bodybuilding type of thing? Yeah. Yeah. She's never done it. So she set like a bunch of powerlifting records. She went to the games twice.

She fought. She was on the U.S. hockey team. And now she's going to do a figure comp. And then, you know, she's crazy. Mom. Wow. His mom. It's your mom.

I don't know if you saw that picture that I posted from my last kickboxing fight. It was Kieran in the corner and it was Jessica right there holding the ice. It was like an amazing picture. It's amazing that she could start training that hard four months later because a lot of people will especially – the real issue with fighters is the lateral movement. Yeah. It's all the footwork and the movement, and that's when they always wind up blowing their knee out. Like so many guys in the –

I tore my MCL last year completely. Two weeks before his MMA debut. Yeah, there she is. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But most people, like you said, she's a maniac. Most people aren't like her. When they give you that range of motion machine the day after surgery, they say you should be in this five hours a day.

She's in it five hours a day. Yeah. Every day. Yeah. And she was in the gym the next day rowing with her legs straight. I mean, there's a level of just dedication and commitment to rehab that she had. When I tore my ACL, I have a steam room in my house, and I would just get in there every day and do deep squats in the steam room

and just through the pain. But because of that, I never had an issue with any range of motion whatsoever where I've had two friends that have had ACL operations within the past year that had to go back and go under and get manipulated because they didn't have range of motion. Wow. So they take you, put you out, and just take your knee and like crack because you just can't handle the pain.

Right. That's all it is. But in my opinion, take that pain early so that body, it never has a chance to lock up and and all that scar tissue develop just break that shit down real early yeah well i was like i said i tore my mcl completely gone off the top of the bone last year five weeks before my mma fight my mma debut five weeks tore it off the bone yeah it was like i go in and the doctor's like listen man i don't want to scare you but it's probably the worst mcl like, listen, man, I don't want to scare you, but this is probably the worst MCL injury I've ever seen.

Oh, you don't want to scare me. Yeah. Shout out to Dr. Donnelly. Dr. Donnelly. But it's gone. It's going to hurt, but, you know, it's gone. What does that mean, it's gone? He said it's gone.

Like, you can start training. He's like, this is the way he explains it. He's like, listen, like, you might not be able to fight in five weeks. I don't know. I'm not sure. I wouldn't recommend surgery because you're an athlete. He wouldn't recommend surgery because you're an athlete. That's what he said.

What does that mean? I don't know. He's like, you should start doing PT. Normally, I don't recommend this until two weeks after the injury. But he didn't explain why he wouldn't recommend surgery because you're an athlete? Because it would put me out for six months. But it would heal it 100%. Is that the idea?

Yeah. But because you're an active athlete? No. What he's leaving out is he had so much stability already. Yeah. He said 48 hours later, it looks pretty good considering you tore it completely off the bone. Other than the MRI, you wouldn't know that the mcl was gone okay so now when it's torn off the bone explain what

happens can you so it was on top of the bone so the mcl is um the outside or is that the lcl inside inside so it's on the inside and it's separated from the bone. So how does it heal? How does it heal? What he said is because it's on top of the bone, you have much, much less stability. Here we got to look at it. Yeah. So there's the MCL. So it tore off the bone.

Yeah, right on the top, he said. Huh. There. So it ripped off? Completely, yeah. The whole thing? Grappling, yeah, gone. So the whole thing's gone?

Yeah. So there's no MCL? Nope. So you don't have an MCL right now? No. I don't know. I'm fine. No, he doesn't.

You don't know. He doesn't have an MCL right now. But all the other stuff and the muscles keep it intact. Yeah. Absolutely. So what he said is. Man, but did you think that for long--term stability the long for your long-term career probably a good idea to have an mcl i don't know i haven't had a problem with it man i fought

three different combat sports last year it hasn't bothered me i was i was running doing full sprints two and a half weeks later after it happened wow which was he was like he saw me walking he's like where's your brace man i was like oh it's in the car i don't need it anymore it hurts it kind of it kind of pinched and pinches the knee he's like what do you mean i was like oh i just got cleared to run so he he told me right as it happens like listen like you i told him the situation i was like i have a fight i have a fight in five weeks i need to get ready for it it's my debut is a big thing it's my mma debut is a big thing he's like i don't know man like it's kind of your call on this one. You might be able to fight.

See how you feel type of thing. I'll allow you to do PT starting tomorrow. So what I did, I was doing PT and I was doing cryotherapy twice a day, every day. So I was keeping the swelling down and trying to strengthen the leg at the same time. But that MCL, it's not a partial tear. It's a full tear? Full tear. Gone.

He told me, he's like, there's nothing you can do about it it's gone it's gonna hurt so here it is right here yeah so it's a grade three tear yeah yeah gone gone so you don't have that thing there and they probably can't even replace it at this point unless he's some sort of a cadaver one and then you'd be out for six months yeah and he fought five times since you fuck everything about that bro he was like he dude to this day is like you you changed my perception and mcls completely because he has he didn't believe it when i told him i can run now does he ever work with athletes that's all he does he used to be the a's doctor that's all he does so how does he how that seems so crazy maybe Maybe you have an unusual knee. I don't know.

I just ate a lot of maca powder. Peruvian maca. It's that maca powder and that camu camu powder. That was it, man. That is insane that, you know, you don't need that. I committed a lot to my rehab, though. Like I said, I was doing twice a day, doing cryotherapy. I was trying to do everything I possibly could to fight.

I'll also say that you get a lot of bad reps with CrossFit. Listen, it doesn't matter what it is. It could be spin. It could be CrossFit. It could be taekwondo. There's good CrossFit. There's bad CrossFit. There's good taekwondo.

There's bad taekwondo. At the end of the day, this kid had been doing, you know, physical, general physical preparedness for years. He's in phenomenal shape. Everything that he does, you know, the stability in his legs. Like I gave him a stability test after he hurt his knee and I couldn't. I'm like, I think it's still there. I said, go get an MRI, be sure. But there was no movement in his leg whatsoever because he's so strong.

That's pretty crazy and pretty fortunate, right? Yeah. And I was lucky. I was definitely lucky. He still doesn't believe it to this day that it happened. Yeah. So what else do you do in terms of recuperative? You said you did cryotherapy.

Do you do sauna work at all? I like the infrared sauna. Yeah. But I just started doing that recently. I was just doing a lot of the cryotherapy. I don't know if there's any benefit to infrared is there do you know i just know your body needs to heat up that's all it is is there a benefit to using infrared as opposed to a regular sauna again i mean there are 10 000 people that were probably screaming that we gave creatine a shot out and i'm sure there are people that are going to say infrared is benefit and infrared kills you. Um, but I do believe that, you know, again, hot cold therapy

works and getting your body hot and, you know, getting your body cool and, and, and manipulating your metabolism, uh, is something that, uh, needs to be done and should be done. Yeah. Well it's heat shock proteins and cold shock proteins that reduce inflammation. And there's a lot of studies on that. But one of the more interesting studies is on sauna use and the fact that this reduction of inflammation has led to a 40% reduction in overall cause mortality, meaning in all cause mortality means strokes, heart attacks, cancer. 40% reduction over a long study that they did. And I think they were doing it four times a week for 20 minutes a day. It's fucking crazy.

But it's that reduction of inflammation. Inflammation is the number one enemy. It's the enemy of your health. It's the cause of so many diseases and ailments. And if you can do something to mitigate that, whether it's cry cause of so many diseases and ailments and and if you can do something to mitigate that whether it's uh cryotherapy or sauna work and then cryotherapy gets a bad rap too because there's a lot of unfounded claims you know you you go to some of those more unscrupulous cryotherapy websites and you know they're basically making shit up they bash it well i mean the ones

that are talking good about it the ones that that are selling it, they're talking about how much fat you lose and all this different stuff. Like, look, it reduces inflammation. That's what it does. It's really good for that. Feel good after it. Well, if you're training on a regular basis, you're an athlete, that inflammation can be detrimental. And that's just all it is.

The more that you can do and do it in all these different ways, with diet and exercise and sleep and all these different you're you're at all they all compound for for me my my philosophy with the gym has always been and again it's very basic and of course there's something like you know over training but you know no such thing as over training just recovery yeah you know so we train really hard everybody's doing two three a. We do a lot of road work. We do a lot of strength conditioning.

You know, we don't get tired in fights. But, you know, sleeping is important. You know, recovery, inflammation management. You know, everything along those lines has to be part of it or you're going to break your body down to a point where you can't perform. Do fighters ever give you a hard time for being a little overweight? No. No? Nope. Never? Never. never Gaston you're missing out let me let me let well I don't want to I don't want to be punished with no pat work no pack work you hear that no um so no you know it's a guy who understands health and wellness 100 100 I'm%. I'm the CrossFit affiliate holder.

Right. And I don't do CrossFit. I'm a human heavy bag. It's what I do. It's literally what I do. I run a gym. I get beat up for a living. Hold pads.

There's nobody that holds pads. Literally, my day can be Kevin Ross, Gaston, Gina Carano, Zoyla Frasto, Eddie Abasolo Diego Yamas little Stephanie who fucking it's harder or as hard of Jenna my giant Kiwi you know and that's four hours of my life every night my body's adapted to that I'll sweat like a pig I

won't drop a pound I don't eat that much I probably don't eat enough I just I live my gym so absolutely I'm gonna die of a heart attack or I'm gonna get my shit together you know I don't think I'm morbidly obese but I'm gonna die of a heart attack or I'm gonna get my shit together You know, I don't think I'm morbidly obese, but I certainly don't look like a guy who knows about fitness But I do it's just you have to put yourself

First and it's very difficult for me as a coach to put myself first I have to if there's time for me to work out There's time for me to get somebody else a fight if there's time for me to be a diet thing I mean If there's time for me to work out. It's got to be a diet thing. I mean, there's no way. He'll tell you. Well, what do you eat? In the morning, I'll have a shake. In the afternoon, I'll have a meal.

And then I'll eat. What's that meal, though? It's a random generic meal. No, no, no, no. Like a prepaid meal, like an out-of-the-cave meal, his food sponsor. like a prepaid meal, like an out of the cave meal, his food sponsor. It's a matter of probably not eating enough and not working out doing something that my body's not used to. I would be honest. I would. Trust me. I live with a physical specimen that knows everything I eat. I don't eat enough and I don't- That doesn't make any sense.

I'm telling you. But that doesn't make any sense. I'm telling you. But that doesn't make any sense. I mean, like, scientifically, it doesn't make any sense. I guarantee you I take in less than 2,500 calories a day. Guarantee you. Huh. You should go to a doctor. That doesn't make sense.

I would need time for that. You don't have time to go to a doctor. I live in my gym. I don't. And again, it sounds like excuses, but literally. Well, it could be a thyroid issue or something. It could be. I mean, it seems like.

Well, is this on TV? Because you're making it sound like I'm living a 600-pound life, Joe. No. And it's not exactly that. No, I'm just saying. I mean, we're talking about health and wellness, and this is the elephant in the room. Oh. Sorry.

Oh, what a dick kick. It's a fucking statement. It's a saying. What a dick kick. It's a fucking statement. It's a saying. No, I mean, because you are such a talented coach and you know so much about health and fitness that, you know, that's a thing. Yeah, absolutely. 100%.

100%. You know, for fighting, I think it's Kevin. Kevin will give me grief, you know, but he's really the only one that gets away with it. Well, Kevin's a hummingbird, right? He can't keep weight on. No, exactly. Exactly. But no, so for me, it's just a matter of just making time,

and I just don't make time for myself. I just don't. Well, that's probably why you're such a good coach too. The obsession that a coach has, it's such a different obsession. The obsession that a coach has versus the obsession that a fighter has i mean it's a it's a completely different focus it's an outward focus instead of an in my and my model is is totally different i don't think we've ever talked about it i've never taken a dime from a professional fighter ever you don't get paid at all nope how do you make so you make a living off the crossfit off of the gym not just the crossfit

gym membership gym memberships? That's it. In my entire life, Alexis fought Ronda. This kid's got 50 fights. Kevin run down the list. I've never taken a penny from a professional fighter. You have to be completely unique in that. I mean, I don't think there's anybody else.

I don't. I've never heard of that before. No. For me, it would be like if the golden state warriors paid the coach directly uh who's who's running who's running the the asylum then that's an interesting way to look at it i don't work for him i work with him right pad work travel like i won't even take per diem on fight week at the UFC I mean I'm gonna take Lexus's fights twice a year she's got a kid I'm gonna take her per diem money right no I can't as a coach

that when I advise him this is a good fight for you this is a bad fight for you this it can't be motivated by me making money it just for me I do that. Well, I know you put together this, you're really well known as not just being a coach, but as training other coaches. I mean, that coaching seminar that you do, you do it every year, right? Twice a year. Twice a year.

It is one of the most respected and appreciated seminar series in all of combat sports because it's one of the things that's missing. How do you run a gym correctly? Absolutely. The fact that you're willing to open up the door to all these other coaches and potential competitors and let them do that, it just speaks volumes about your approach. Anybody can come in. When I opened up and I started, I didn't know what I was doing. I was a fighter when I was younger.

And then I had to get a real job when my wife got pregnant. And I got into a bunch of other stuff, dignitary protection and all that crazy stuff. What protection? Dignitary protection. What is that? Executive security, consulting. Oh, so you're doing like bodyguard work for like dignitaries. Yeah, dignitaries.

It's a weird word, right? Yeah. No, it's the actual word. No, I know. It's weird to hear. Dignitary. Dignitary protection. So you're working with like foreign agents and stuff like that?

Yeah, I was on the presidential protection detail for Aristide in Haiti. Oh, wow. Yeah. How weird is that? Yeah. I've had a couple of jobs. If you Google me, you go like five pages back, you'll hear all that other stuff. Huh. in Haiti oh wow yeah how weird is that yeah I've had I've had a couple of jobs if you google me you go like five pages back you'll hear all that other stuff huh but I so because fighting

wasn't paying when I was fighting my wife got pregnant my son's 21 I think I made 500 bucks the most ever when I fought and you know I had to get a real job so I was going to school and and I was going to be a cop and then I met a guy Tony Scotti the godfather Of defensive tactics driving. He let me in on a course with the State Department. I impressed him and he made some introductions and I became a State Department subcontractor and traveled the world and you know ran a company one of the largest Private security companies in the world steel foundation. I think they don't think they're around anymore retired That's so interesting because whenever I see a gym as big as yours and i know how hard it is to run a gym i always go how how did that happen how'd that come together like that because you know it's just so many gyms come

and go and even good ones like look with mma gyms we lost the black zillions that's gone um i don't know what's going on with uh team elevate in in denver i think they're that's where. I don't know what's going on with Team Elevate in Denver. I think they're- That's where TJ was originally. Yes. And now he did his camp here. Yeah. So-

Now they're at the, what do they call it? The training- Training lab. Yeah, RAIN. Training lab. Does it have anything to do with the old RAIN? No. No?

No, no. Mark is- Where's Mark? Mark Munoz? Yeah, Mark M yeah mark is somewhere else now i here's how so so i've got just about been open for nine years with csa we had zero members when we started i've got about 1300 so what was the motivation where did you the motivation was that i spent it was always a passion i was doing martial arts when I was a child. I was fighting. I just wasn't making money doing it. And then I got into that other life and did that for about 15 years.

And I was being paid to protect people that could afford it but maybe didn't deserve it for a very long time. And unfortunately, that's the way it works. If you can afford it, you probably don't deserve it. That's a funny way of looking at it. And it's a true way of looking at it. Because I was doing it at the highest level. You know, I wasn't doing security work at the, you know, Kids' Choice Awards standing, you know. Right next to Jim Carrey.

Yeah, yeah. For two hours saying I'm Jim Carrey's bodyguard, right? So it's one of those things where I saw it at the very highest level. And it just turned me off after a while because you know you you're just you're you're being a babysitter to people who have money right even with the biggest threats you know from Iraq Afghanistan Haiti run down the list it wasn't about helping people and I always wanted to help people yeah so I get it when I when I opened the gym that was the goal was to help people. And it turned into that gym.

And this is why I feel that our gym model is successful is because tonight at 530 during a boxing class, my professional fighters are going to be in class with everyone else. There's no pro team only practice. Everybody trains together. Everybody works together. The model is for people, you want to get in shape, wonderful. You're going to get into shape. You want to have stress relief, wonderful. You want to become a fighter, wonderful. I don't have a fight team practice, try out or any of that. You come to the gym, you put in the work, you support the team, you train side by side with world champions, you get better, you have a good time. It's a huge

family gym. It's a huge family environment. And the mixture of the self-defense and the fighting and the fitness, one doesn't need the other. So unlike like an AKA, and I love Javi, but the gym is about the fighters. And if fighters lose, people go out the back door. For me, I can have a fighter lose. My membership's not going to matter. My people are still going to come. They're still going to train.

They're still going to support. They're still going to buy tickets. And that's been the recipe. And because the gym is that way, it's allowed me to have this model where I don't charge pro fighters. So when you opened, that is really incredible and very, very unique. But when you open, like how did you get people to go? Well, so what I would say, I'm going to sound full of myself here. I'm just, I'm very good at it.

Right. But I'm saying, like, if you're Ernesto Hoost and you open up a gym, everybody's going to go, hey, I want to go train with Mr. Perfect. That's Ernesto Hoost. You know, for a guy like you to have such a massive, massive gym and become one of the most respected gyms in the world right like it's it's a crazy path like so for for me i i think part of it was just i'm gonna use a generic term hustle you know i i you know if you look at Thai boxing coaches like you said they just aren't very the the Thais here in America they don't take it seriously. It's not the stadium. If you're not in the stadium, they don't care.

So other than Jon Sinan, name a Thai coach that's coaching high-level fighters Thai boxing. They're just not. They're retired. It's boring. It's not real. It's fun. It's not a real thing. For me, I treated it like a real thing, and I hustled my ass off, and I made connections, and I worked. And the reason that I could get so many people on Lion Fightersers because I sold fucking tickets because I knew how the game was played.

I learned how to work with the judges. I knew who was judging fights and how to score and how to deal. And so all of that, whereas a lot of coaches don't ever kind of get out of their own way. They just they're so in their mantra of, you know, well, I'm really good at what I do, and, you know, this is traditional Thai boxing, and this is how it should be scored. No, every day. We've always adjusted. We've had fights like, hey, you've got to box, man.

There's boxing judges out there. You've got to box. Whereas maybe like we were in L.A., it's like, oh, you know, the judges are more like Thai, so you can do that. You can do your thing, you know. So we've always adjusted. Yeah, so I think part of it is just its drive, its hustle, and its determination to be successful. And that's, you know, for me, you know, that's what I have focused on with the gym, and it's grown.

And like I said, we started out one location. We had, it was 3,500 square feet. I had zero students. And in I said, we started out one location. It was 3,500 square feet. I had zero students. And in three years, we had 400. That's crazy. It's hard to get 100 students. Yeah. Especially in jujitsu schools.

Jujitsu schools, that's the number. That's the magical number. You have 100 students. It's like, oh, now you're making X amount per month because you had 100 people paying X amount per month. You can actually make a living. It's the diversity, right? So what happens is that when people find out that maybe MMA isn't for them, they can go into my fitness program. When people find out that maybe fitness isn't for them, they can go into my Krav Maga program.

They find out that Krav isn't for them. And the bottom line is also I don't treat it like any kind of bullshit. You have a Krav Maga program as well? I have a huge Krav Maga program. Huge Krav Maga program. And it's the same thing kind of bullshit. You have a Krav Maga program as well? I have a huge Krav Maga program. Huge Krav Maga program. And it's the same thing. It's like, oh, Krav Maga. Listen, all Krav Maga is is combat sports.

That's it. Yeah. I'm a fan of Krav Maga. Yeah. What Krav Maga is is martial arts. That's it. It's like they've just developed self-defense scenarios and they use real martial arts. That's it.

Real Muay Thai. Yep. Real karate. Real judo. And we do it and we do it even more combat sports such as all of my kravis have to go through grappling classes all the kravis have to learn our combos the kravik themselves kravis that's the term is kravis it's it's kravis but like any kravis dignitaries no i don't i don't but i have taught but i have

i did once teach krav maga to the Bolivian Secret Service. Really? Yeah. Wow. That's good. I didn't even know the story. Saw the garden coke. Yeah, exactly.

Some narco shit. That's why. I guarantee you, dude, listening to this podcast, it's going to be a bunch of pro fighters that, this motherfucker just said he doesn't charge? Did he? What's going on? I need to learn some Muay Thai in California. I'm paying $2.50 a month for my gym.

What is going on? Well, yeah, I run down the list and the percentage of the purse and then the sponsorships and all that, pad work. I remember one time with this gym, I heard a friend from a gym that they were paying like $300 a month

and like paying. I grew up with him so I don't know that. I was like, Karen, you wouldn't believe what's going on over there, man. People are paying.

They're robbing them. They have to pay money for work. Yeah, no. Well, dude, that's very, very selfless. That's that's very, very selfless of you. Very impressive. I'm very impressed by that.

I think that's amazing. I try. I try. Look, you get a lot of kudos in the combat sports world, but I think that might be one where you deserve the most. That's very, very impressive. That's incredible. And I love these kids.

I mean, this is my son. You do. And I do. And Zoila, that's my daughter. And Kevin, that's my son I love these kids I mean this is my son you do and I do and Zoila that's my daughter and Kevin that's my son and Stephanie

so you know it becomes a family and that's the thing it's like these people it's like I get all the time it's like oh what do I need to do to train at CSA you need to move there

do you have dorms nope I don't have dorms you want to train with me you got to move here and you got to and you got to want it dorms is when it gets sketchy

you got a bunch of weird dudes living in your gym. No bueno. Yeah. No. But you gotta really, really, really want to train with me because you gotta figure out where to live. You gotta figure out what to do.

Like Diego Llamas, glory kickboxing fighter. Yeah. He showed up when, he messaged Kevin one time, I think, from what I hear the story was. And Kevin doesn't reply to that. Like, I don't know. He doesn't reply to just anybody like that.

They were talking a little bit. He's like, oh, yeah, you should come down, like, you know, for a couple weeks, whatever. Shows up. He's like, hey, I just moved here to the doors from Mexico. Brought his wife. Shut down his gym. Yeah. He's like, I just moved here.

Yeah. Yeah. You told me I had to move here, so here I am. He's part of the team now. What does that feel like to you? Because that's heavy responsibility, man. Yeah, and I mean you told me I had to move here. So here I am. Yeah, it's part of team now What does that feel like to you because that's heavy responsibility man? Listen listen man here Here's my philosophy is this is when a fighter wins they did their job when a fighter loses I didn't and it's it's that simple It's literally that simple

It's not that simple. No to the bottom better fighter fighter and you couldn't have helped them. No, to me, like, like, so right now, okay, you're training a guy who fights Anderson. So I'll use, no, I'll use Alexis. Alexis fought Caitlin. And I thought it bottom line.

I think Alexis won that fight. I can see why she didn't. She wears her fights on her face. Like, you know, like Zoila does, like literally if you blow it, Alexis,

she's, she swells up. It was a very close fight. Yeah, exactly. But if you, if you look at her the wrong way, she's going to swell up. Right. And I know that.

So for me, the game plan was very simple, very specific. There were pieces of the game plan that worked. The right leg kick moved her where we needed to move her. The left body kick was also part of the game plan to take away what we needed. Alexis wasn't throwing it. Alexis didn't throw it. Whose fault is that? Mine or alexis's in my mind it's my fault because i didn't see that that wasn't going to happen she's thrown in other fights so what did i do wrong how did i miss that half of the game plan that would have won this fight very easily in my opinion 100

didn't happen i can sit back and be mad at the fighter, or I can sit back and say, you missed this in training. You need to figure out how to avoid this. You need to learn from it. And that's what I do every single fight. When you're watching fights and you're at home and you see like a guy,

one of the things that drives me nuts when I'm doing commentary, like see a guy start to soften some dude up with leg kicks, starts to get that leg buckling a little bit, and then inexplicably they stop. They stop throwing it. But there's a reason they stop throwing it.

They're not conditioning their shin, and they're hurting themselves. A hundred percent. It could be. Or it could be they hurt him with a right hand, and then they got punch happy. That too. But most of the time when i see people stop kicking on a leg kick that works it's because they're feeling it in their leg too because they

don't condition their shins properly that's why i've talked to people about it and so for me you're absolutely right you rock somebody the right hand you go head hunting 100 but a lot of the time people do not condition their legs they don't you know now you've got everybody going after the calf kick right and if you don't know how to throw a calf kick and if you don't know how to deal with... If you go after a calf kick, invariably you're going to catch shin a lot of the time. So if

you're not conditioned in your leg, okay, you land a couple calf kicks, but when you talk about Mighty Mouse, he landed a beautiful calf kick in that first round. That's what hurt Henry. But he caught some shin too, and I guarantee you that didn't help his... He broke his foot. That didn't help? Yeah. Mighty Mouse, you know, he landed a beautiful calf kick in that first round. That's what hurt Henry. But he caught some shin, too. And I guarantee you that didn't help his – He broke his foot.

That didn't help? Yeah. Mighty Mouse broke his foot in that fight. He's got videos of it on right now. I saw it. It was like sold out. Like a fat guy's foot. And that's very easy to do if you know how to check.

Literally, if you check properly, you're – I'm not scared of calf kicks at all. I know I'm just going to check it. I might eat one like matt chanel for example he comes down and he trains with us he loves to throw calf kicks and i'm like all right throw it like i'm just gonna i'm just gonna check it every time and i'll counter properly if you know how to check a leg kick and you know how to check a calf kick you're gonna hurt the person doing it 100 of the time what do you recommend for shin conditioning? Nothing crazy.

Progressive, dense contact. So starting with a heavy bag and then a more densely packed heavy bag and then eventually you can get to a sandbag. Yeah. And that's what we do. We've got three different levels of bag in the gym. And we've got standard bag, densely packed and then sandbag sandbag huh damn who makes a sandbag nobody does you make it you gotta make kevin made hours kevin made hours yeah so just go to the hardware store yeah no kicking sticks or anything like that no no no so what do you uh how

do you know what kind of liner do you use to fill up with sand so it's a standard uses so you can put a liner in or if you've got a really good bag, then it'll be okay. But you put in basically a garbage bag, a well-done garbage bag. Like one of them lawn bags, contractor bags. And then you don't want to go just sand. It's still stuffing and sand. Stuffing and sand. Stuffing and sand.

And then you build from there. And then it'll be denser at the bottom and then you start kicking higher and then you work your way down the bag and it's not even about cracking it it's just about conditioning the shin as evenly as possible just deadening it up and putting those little calcium deposits all over absolutely as evenly as possible that's why i'm not a big fan of the the rolling and the hitting hitting because all you're doing is you're creating these little micro breaks and fractures in variable spots. It's not spreading across the shin the same way when you have a kicking target like a bag. It also seems like if you're throwing kicks, it's going to be a more realistic application.

It's like throwing kicks on something and hardening your shins up. I've seen guys do that with like Coke bottles. I've seen all that stuff. It just doesn't – no one ever – It doesn't work. I've never done that in my life. Really? Yeah.

But you use that sandbag a lot? I use the sandbag, yeah. How often do you use it? Especially – I use it even more so when I have Muay Thai or kickboxing fights coming up. But I'll use it every day. Yeah, absolutely. It doesn't have to be something that's hours and hours at a time. Drills and, you know.

It's amazing how much that low calf kick has made its way into MMA and how much it changes fights. Yeah. I believe Benson Henderson was the first one to use it back then when he was a champion, or even before that. Yeah. And Thai boxing is considered kind of dirty. Really?

Yeah. That's why I don't see it as much in Thai boxing. It's considered dirty? It's a little dirty, yeah. Yeah. That's why I don't see it as much in Thai boxing. It's considered dirty? It's a little dirty, yeah. Wow. That's why you don't see it that much. It's like, it's low-hanger fruit. It's cheap.

But it works. Absolutely. Why would it be? It's weird how people- Well, the Thai boxing scoring is different in Thailand than in here. Well, you know, for the longest time in jiu-jitsu, leg locks were dirty. People would go crazy if you went for a leg lock. They would boo until you released it.

People would scream at you. Coaches would say, just let it go, just let it go. Let the leg lock go. Ricardo almost had that leg lock in his fight, Ricardo Ramos. Yes, yes. It was deep. The only thing is he tried to make that adjustment

and go behind the armpit. Yeah, and the guy just got off. He was doing it like they were grappling, which is a thing that people do do. You forget that the guy can just stand up. You think that he's going to stay engaged with you. It's a common mistake that people do. But he just made an adjustment, and the guy he fought was good, man. It was a close fight.

Real close fight. Very good matchup. Very good matchup. There was a lot of real close good fight very very good matchup very good matchup like there was a lot of those saturday night there's a lot of like really good what was the last one in the prelims i was i was there at the fights was it moicano no no the prelims the prelims that wasn't in the prelims no no that was in the main card oh okay right yeah that's right that's right yeah yeah that's right cup swanson jesus Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Cub Swanson. Jesus Christ, Moikana looked good. Yeah.

Holy shit. Dropped him with a jab. But he's a fucking real technician, man. And he's big for featherweight. Yeah, for 45. He's like 5'11". Yeah, but looks big. Yeah.

Big frame. Big frame. He looks like he's 170 pounds when he's inside the actual cage itself. Yeah. He's a big dude. He's just very technical, man. Like everything he does, there's no sloppiness to him.

Like, everything. And then when he dropped him with a jab, I mean, it looked like he hit him with a fucking straight right hand on the button. It's crazy. And that's Cubs Watson. Cubs was coming in at the same time, too, which is, you know,

but he's so long, and he's, boom, stiff arm. It's just, it was the way it snapped in there, too. It was just perfect, perfect timing. And then to take Cubs back that quick and get him in that rear naked choke like that, like, wow. Impressive.

Mike Connell's no joke. Absolutely not. The level of talent is so high right now. It's really fascinating because there's guys that aren't even in the top 15 that look like world champions from 10 years ago. It's really interesting. Yeah, no, the adaption is, you know, I say it all the time.

Again, I'm known as a Muay Thai coach, but the best Muay Thai strikers, you know, don't have the best success in UFC striking. You know, it's so, you know, the most decorated, best Muay Thai guys and gals, you know, Joanna, you know, you have to put her up there know, Joanna, you have to put her up there. Valentina, you have to put her up there. These are legit world champions. Not somebody who went to Florida and won the IKF Classic or something like that. Right, right.

But on the guy side, you look at the two best Muay Thai guys ever. You know, you look at Shane Campbell. I don't know if you know Shane's background, but Shane Campbell literally was a world beater in Muay Thai from Canada. His last fight with UFC, he got dropped with a body shot and got cut. Because he could never really sit down on his strikes.

Because he's always worried about the takedowns. Exactly. And then there's the little gloves as well. Exactly. Hakeem, you know, Hakeem world beater in Muay Thai. His first fight out. FNR world champion. Yeah, it was his first fight out. He got 20 some odd seconds, he got knocked out with little gloves. Well, how about Gokhan Saki? Exactly, right?

And Roundtree's a bad motherfucker. No taking away from Roundtree, and he hits hard. But it's crazy watching Gokhan get cracked and knocked out with one shot. It's like, wow. Little gloves definitely giving now the playing field you have to respect the little gloves and and you have to respect the other influences in mma okay when and again i'm i'm probably one of the few coaches that'll like you know fixate on on losses and try to really really learn from him when he you watched his second mma fight where he lost, right? Yes. And he, in that moment, came out very slow twitch. He was very almost McGregor-esque.

He was going through a little phase that I didn't pick up on in camp. And he comes out, and this kid that he's fighting is a karate kid. Super talented kid, right? And literally, the speed at which they were fighting stylistically was different. He was in second gear and this kid was in fifth gear. You agree with this? Yeah, absolutely. What was the motivation behind your changing of your style a little bit?

Like I said, I was going through a lot at that time. Okay, right. And I just, you know, yeah, I remember like just walking out. I just wasn't like there. Yeah, like I said, like my last kickboxing fight, the fight before that, I just felt, even the spinning back elbow one, I just felt at home, I was like, yeah, you can see me smiling, like, you know. Dude, that spinning back elbow might be the greatest spinning back elbow KO in the history

of MMA. Thank you, man. That shit was ridiculous. We played it on this podcast at least five times. He's like, you want to see a spinning elbow? Watch this. I heard you talking about it with Kevin Lee. Dude, the smack.

When that elbow hit his jaw, you're like, here it is. Watch here. Oh, come on, man. I mean, that's the greatest spinning elbow of all time. I agree. It just is. I mean, it can't get any better. And he's done that.

That can't get better. Eight times. He's done that eight times. I'm not talking about landing it. I'm talking about finishing fights with that elbow. Oh, I know he has, but that's the best of all the ones he's ever landed. In my opinion, that's the best way to land it. That's the best way to land it when they're coming in.

The force of their punch. Let me see that one more time. In my opinion, that's the best way to land it. That's the best way to land it when they're coming in. The force of their punch. Let me see that one more time. You see, I slipped the jab at the same time. Well, you threw that kick first. Yeah. He's coming in with the jab. I slip it. Boom.

Oh, my goodness. He's not expecting it. He's coming in with a strike, and he's not expecting to get hit. Dude, that is so ridiculous. Yeah, but now everybody. He literally changed Muay Thai in America. He didn't invent that, but it was the first time anybody saw it. Yeah.

And amateur tournaments now, like in California, you cannot throw a spinning elbow until after your fourth amateur fight because of him. Wow. Because it's so – Changing the game. It does so much damage. Changing the game. It does so much damage. And the way he throws it much damage. It's a game, sir. It does so much damage. And the way he throws it does damage.

Like if you see, like John has thrown it, like John Jones throws it, but he hits the forearms because he throws it horizontally. As tall as John is, if John wants to finish people with that elbow, he needs to come down with it. He needs to arc down and drop his weight. Even if they're shelled, he'll split down the middle. The angle at which he throws, if you're taller than him, he's going to come underneath. And if you're shorter than him or the same height, he's going to come down. At the same time as I'm throwing a right hand, I'll just go through.

So I'll throw it either way. I'll go either way. He's knocked people out on both sides. It's not just one side. It's a very effective weapon. I've always felt like the best people that transition from kickboxing to MMA are the really explosive ones, which is one of the reasons why Crow Cop did so well in MMA,

not just because he dedicated himself to it, which was a huge factor, but also because when you watch Crow Cop in K1, he was a exploder. He would like take pot shots at people and just, he would have, yeah. And he would have a naked kick or a naked punch.

He wasn't like a guy who was throwing a lot of technical stuff and setting things up. He would whap out of nowhere, throw full power because he was so fast. And that translates extremely well to MMA in my opinion. Yeah, the pace of Muay Thai, it can be a little slower. Yeah, and the pace of Muay Thai, it can be a little slower. Yeah. So when you're dealing with his fight, like I said, he's coming in relaxed and slow twitch and thinking timing and bouncing a little bit. And this kid is a karate kid, and he's immediately, like you said, flap.

Right? You don't see it coming. You get caught. Right? So that's where I think strikers – listen, and no disrespect to that kid. I think that kid is one of the best – one of the – Brandon – I can't remember his last name. One of the best – Best name?

His name is Brandon – I forget his last name. You don't remember him? No. I can't remember his last name. Most people, when they lose to a guy, that name's etched in their fucking head forever. Nah. You let it go? You got to.

You got to let it go, man. You got to. I let it go, man. But that kid, he's a talented kid. I'll hunt you if you don't. Yeah, well, we'll find his name. What's his name, Jamie? Just pull up Gaston's Wikipedia.

Should be an insured dog. Find his name. LaRocco. There it is. LaRocco. Yeah, that kid is an uber talented kid. Yes. I was very impressed by him.

Absolutely. And he might not have Gaston's look. He might not have some of what Gaston brings to the table. And he hasn't really caught on since. Super talented kid. He might not have some of what Gaston brings to the table and he hasn't really caught on since super talented kid. He wasn't disrespected in that fight. He just wasn't, uh,

he wasn't, there was no film on him. We didn't know who he was. His style was not anticipated and he came out super slow and he got fucking caught. Do you train? Do you train much with a karate stylists or someone who's got that? Because it seems to me that when you have a Wonderboy Thompson style,

there's something to that. There's something to that that's very weird to deal with. It's a different thing. When people are unorthodox in general, it's just so hard to really— Raymond Daniels is another one. It's hard to really get going with people like that. Raymond Daniels is another one. It's hard to really get going with people like that.

And like Kieran was saying, I come from a background where a five-round Muay Thai fight is different. Normally, and he can agree with me, my first few fights, I take the first round off. I'm just like, all right, let's get going. Let's see what he's got. Right. It's like we got five rounds to work here. Right. That's where Kevin's had the most trouble with kickboxing is because he's used to five rounds and the first round is just kind of feel them out right you know right so as coaches it's our job to change that and that's i struggle with that a lot with my

thai guys because again i'll make like zoila i'll make gaston i have these guys fight when we tie fights as well because it's definitely going to help your striking but if you fixate on that rhythm, that footwork, that timing in MMA, that's where you're going to have the most trouble. So those karate stylists

are going to give you trouble and the wrestlers are going to give you trouble because you're never going to be able to sit down on anything. Well, Michael Venom Page

is probably one of the most exciting guys in Bellator today. His last fight? Oh my God. Not the boxing one. No, the MMA fight.

He's a monster. Oh myma fight he's a monster oh my god he's a monster yes but it's that style it's that blitz you ever see him fight raymond daniels in uh point karate no i didn't there's some videos of them fighting on it's crazy they're sprinting at each other they're so fucking fast but i've said for a while that i think there's there's something really good to that that ability ability to blitz, especially when you're dealing with little gloves and MMA rules. I just think that that's a really important skill that a lot of people don't have, that ability to blitz.

And if you have that sort of slow first-round tie style, here's the two of these guys. Look at them. Oh, damn. I mean, this is like fast twitch muscle fiber heaven. I want to say this is – 2011. Yeah.

There it is. Yeah, so seven years ago. They want to take each other's heads off. They were both so fast. But they're trying to score points. You know, this is such a different game. You know, I did a little bit of this stuff when I was competing. It's so different.

The range is so beautiful to watch. Yeah. It's just crazy. Well, it's also they stop it with every strike. Oh, they stop it? Yeah. Every time you touch each other, they stop it, and they score a point. So it's super unrealistic in terms of an actual fight,

and the thought process behind it is nonsense. The thought process was that you should be able to kill somebody with one punch, and then all you have to do is touch them, and then stop. That could have killed the guy. It's nonsense. But the benefit to it is much like the benefit of learning Taekwondo early. You learn Taekwondo early because you develop leg dexterity that you would never develop

if you threw in leg kicks and punches and takedowns and all those other things. It's very rare that someone goes through just a traditional martial arts or a traditional MMA background where you're just learning everything, takedowns, leg kicks, all this. And you ever develop kicks the way someone who's like a real high-level taekwondo practitioner does. But those taekwondo guys, they have so many holes in their games because of that. And it's the same thing with karate guys.

But that skill that these guys have of being able to touch each other first. I mean, if you add all that other stuff like Venom Page has, add submissions, add leg kicks, then you've got a crazy combination. Yeah, that's part of what we've had a lot of success with in our striking is that, yeah, Muay Thai, but at the end of the day, our boxing is, we'll box, it's Western boxing. We'll do Dutch combos, we'll do Thai clinch, Thai elbows,

but we'll also adapt our striking for MMA. And most Muay Thai coaches aren't really thinking how, you know, the MMA, like, you don't throw leg kicks when somebody's coming forward in an MMA fight. You're going to get taken down. Right. They have to be backing up. You have to stop them with something.

Most Thai coaches aren't going to go out of their way to learn the sport of MMA to become an effective MMA striker. Because, oh, I'm like Saki. Listen, I know his Round Trees coach, Jason Park, who's out of boxing works with Brian Popejoy. Tremendous gym down here in Southern California. And Gogan throws that blind leg kick and he throws it from that side and it leaves his head open. They planned for that.

That was a planned counter. That wasn't just luck of the draw. That's an MMA coach with a solid Muay Thai background who's understanding striking for MMA versus someone like Gogan, who again, one of the best strikers to ever be in the UFC, who hasn't really adapted, unlike a crow cop,

to MMA yet. Well, it's also Gokhan came into the UFC with how many fights? I mean, how many fights has that guy had in kickboxing? More time. But how many MMA fights? It was like 0-1. Yeah, I think he was 0-1. Yeah, and that's, you know, you'll get that a lot with people But how many MMA fights? It was like 0-1. Yeah. I think he was 0-1. Yeah.

And that's, you know, you'll get that a lot with people like Jermaine. When I first started training Jermaine DeRondami, I'm the one that brought her over here. She was 0-1. She got her arm broken by Vanessa Porto in a Florida fight. Right. How were you pronouncing her last name? DeRondami. Is that how she says it?

Yeah. Because everybody says DeRondami. Yeah. No. DeRondami. I've heard her say DeRondami. Yeah. Because everybody says Duran to me. Yeah, no. They're on Dami. I've heard it say they're on Dami. Yeah. She just lets people say it how they want.

But why did she decide to not fight Cyborg? What was that all about? Because she won the title, beat Holly Holm, and then said, yeah, you know, fuck that. I'm not fighting that. I'm not fighting that steroid cheat. It's basically what she said. She called her a steroid cheat. Well, you're going to say what you're going to say in the moment, right?

So, you know, when I met met her she was she was oh and one she was like the most dominant female kickboxer of all time she's knocked out a dude yeah uh yeah absolutely i did flatline the dude with the right hand crazy she was training with uh sean tompkins and then sean passed away and her manager at the time said hey she needs a place to go so brought her over. We met and I helped her get her visa. I got her signed with Strikeforce. She fought at the Playboy Mansion. Yeah, did a few different things.

And her and Miriam never really got along. So I could see early on, her and Miriam never sparred. They drilled a couple of times. Never sparred once while I had both of them at the gym. That seems kind of crazy. Well, then we're going to fast forward that over to the Cyborg thing. At the end of the day, I feel like in that moment, Jermaine achieved what she wanted to achieve.

And for whatever reason, whoever was advising her at the time, I think she should have taken that fight. I think she should have done that fight. She wasn't with me at the time. I can't judge what happened. You mean the Cyborg fight? Yeah, the Cyborg fight. Well, she had an injury apparently to her thumb. She said, I interviewed her after the have done that fight. She wasn't with me at the time. I can't judge what happened Cyborg fight. Yeah, she had an injury apparently to her thumb She she said I interviewed her after the Holly home fight

She said she need to get surgery in her thumb, right? But then she changed the story later and said she's never gonna fight cyborg. I don't understand that I mean, but you you did if you're gonna call her a cheat Okay, she was a cheap before you even went to the 145-pound division. You knew inevitably this is what was going to happen. So I question that as a person, nice girl. What do you think it is then? I mean, the only thing that I would say is she doesn't want to fight her because she doesn't think she could beat her.

I think that – I definitely think that that's got to be in somebody's head. I can't say – How could it's head. I can't say. How could it not be? I can't say. Your fucking cyborg, how could it not be? Yeah. She's fucking terrifying. Like when they presented the cyborg fight to me for Miriam, I said yes right away.

I said yes, we'll do it. In kickboxing? In Muay Thai, yes. Right. I would not have said yes in MMA yet. Right. I just would not have. Right.

It's not going to go well. It's just not for someone like that and jermaine does not have enough experience in mma if jermaine is on her back she's not getting up she's just not amanda nunez showed that people show that she doesn't have that skill yet right so just say hey i'm not ready for this yet maybe i don't know i can't say that when you're the world champion. I get it. So she hasn't fought since that, right? No, no.

Since she beat Holly. She's talking about fighting again. And like I said, we're friendly. I mean, there's no bad blood. Did she get that thumb fixed? I believe she did, yeah. Yeah? Yeah.

It just wasn't a good fit for the gym for her and I. But she, again, she's still under contract. She got the surgery. I wish her well. uh again she's still under contract she got the surgery um i wish her well i think she's going back to 35 from what i understand well if she can go to 35 she should yeah because cyborg can't yeah there's no you've seen that video of her cutting weight dude oh my god i've stood next to her before i've shook her hand she's gigantic she weighs a buck 85 if she weighs a pound. I mean, she's walking around very, very heavy and thick.

And so she obviously diets down, gets in the like 170-pound range, diets down a little bit more, gets in the 165-pound range, and then begins the dehydration process. But she is fucking enormous when she gets into that cage. Yeah. Then the problem is California with that 10% rule. There's no way she makes it. There's no way she makes that. I think that is just a recommendation, though. The first time

it's a recommendation. No, but there's a couple of guys that weighed in the next day heavier than the 10% and they had to fight heavier. Didn't she fight in California, though, after the rule? It would be interesting to know what she weighed in at on Saturday. That's very interesting because they don't give that information out. I wish they would like boxing does, like HBO.

They'll show you what they got into. Yeah, that's cool. I read yesterday that California was going to start releasing the fight day weights. That's Andy Foster. That guy who's the head of the California State Athletic Commission, he's on the ball. That guy who's the head of the California State Athletic Commission, he's on the ball. That guy is on the ball. He's so ahead of the curve with all that shit, with implementation of additional weight classes,

with catching people, doing steroids. I love that guy. I'm a big fan. No, Andy has been great for the sport in California. And when people talk about, oh, Dana's going to change the weigh-in times and this and this and this, I don't believe that Andy Foster would let that happen in his lifetime. Here's what I think. If you're going to have this weigh-in thing early in the morning, let them weigh in all day until the fucking limit. If it's 4 o'clock in the afternoon where they're supposed to weigh in, cut cut it off at 3 30 so you know for sure whether or not someone's going to make it

but the problem is you you wake up at eight o'clock in the morning you only have two hours you you're that's not is the same as being able to do it all throughout the day where your body would normally just lose a little bit of weight anyway it changes it changes everything that timing and that's that's where you know you look at the numbers it like oh you know two-year span before they change the timing X amount of people missed weight to your span sense this many people people push it they do push you give them more time and they are gonna push it if they know that they could rehydrate longer which is the idea is that it's safer because you can rehydrate from 8 a.m. till 4 p.m. instead of you know from 4 p.m. on yeah

I just think that give them all the time they need you know and fuck one FC's laid out the groundwork just look at what they did with their rehydration tests and and or hydration tests rather and implement cutting weight is just silly like I was talking to my girlfriend about it and she was like wait wait you guys she didn't know much about fighting at the time you know obviously but she was like you guys make this weight but the next day you're not you're not the same weight so why not just not weigh in yeah yeah like it's stupid it's just like it sounds really stupid that's not what you fight at it's sanctioned cheating it's sanctioned cheating

and it's cheating at a much higher scale even than PEDs. If you get two people and they both weigh 135, but they're both totally hydrated, and one of them has been doing steroids and one of them hasn't been doing steroids, the difference will be far less than if one person weighs in at 135 but then balloons up to 160 and then gets into that octagon at 160, but there's no PEDs involved. Well, that's a much greater advantage than someone who's doing some sort of a testosterone thing or something. Especially with more time now to rehydrate. It's still not enough time, right? You know, the 48 hours, you know, whatever the current study is.

They're compromised. Yeah, you're absolutely correct. The benefit might outweigh – the benefit of being so much larger might outweigh being compromised oh absolutely and be and if you look at the previous record it was you know a losing record for fighters that missed weight when it was a five o'clock weigh-in and now it's a winning record for fighters that miss weight in an 11 a.m weigh-in because they have more time to recover dude if i was running shit i would fix that first that would be the first thing i would fix the next thing i would fix is judging yeah the idea that you have win bonus and lost bonus

but you haven't fixed the fucking judging is goddamn crazy it's crazy it i i just throw my hands up sometimes now i can't even say anything anymore because i've had so many rants about it and they've gone nowhere and nothing gets done and you still have people that literally have never applied an armbar in their life. They've never taken a punch in the face in their life. They've never thrown a kick in competition

in their life and they're judging these fights. And they don't even train. I mean, forget competition. Just fucking have a love of the sport. They don't even have a love of the sport. They're just doing it as a job. It's crazy. It is crazy when you have a limited supply, or unlimited rather,

an unlimited supply of people who are martial arts experts, who would make fantastic judges all throughout the world. You have so many. You have thousands of them. I mean, how many fucking people are giant martial arts fans that are on, whether it's Sherdog or MixedMartialArts.com or fill in the name of the website. There's so many people that are engrossed in martial arts all day long. That's what they live for.

And they debate whether or not Sohudo should have won round two or Mighty Mouse should have won it with effective striking. And there's like this real comprehensive conversation going on. These people that are judging the fights can't even have that conversation. If you had a conversation with half the fucking UFC judges, if I had them here and I sat them down and I said, you know, let's watch a fight and you tell me what you think is going on here. Tell me what you think is better.

Tell me what you think. How hard, what does a low calf kick feel like? What does it feel like when you get hit with a liver shot? When is a guy safe in a triangle and when is he in danger? How can you protect yourself? Who's dominating what position?

When is a guy just laying on top to breathe and rest in the third round? Or when are they doing damage? Can you recognize the progression? Do you understand what a guy has to do to get out of the guard? Do you understand what a guy has to do to escape from an arm triangle?

If you don't, you have no fucking business putting these guys' livelihoods and their records and literally half their earning. You have no business. Half the fucking money? If you're getting 50 and 50, this motherfucker

costs you $50,000 by not knowing anything? That is insane to me. That should be fixed. And why is there three judges? Why three? Says who? Because boxing has always done it that way? What are we, fucking copycats? That doesn't make any sense. We should have five. Have five

judges. Glory's been doing that. You have a much greater chance of getting it sense we should have five have five judges glory's been doing that you have a much greater chance of getting it right with five judges have five judges make these motherfuckers take tests first of all that's that's one thing second why 10 point my system what the fuck is that that's some boxing shit why are you using a boxing scoring system for something that involves takedown submissions, submissions, leg kicks, punches, elbows, knees. There's too many things. There's way too many things. It's a crazy system. Absolutely.

It's what I get the most, the discussions for Muay Thai. It's the same thing. Yes. It's the same exact judging. Same exact problem. Same problem. It's not what's worth more, what's not worth more. How do they judge in Thailand?

Well, it depends. It depends. Now, in Thailand, they're starting to just kind of score things evenly. worth more what's not worth how do they judge in thailand um well it depends now in thailand they're starting to just kind of score things evenly because they're trying to do just three three minute rounds yeah they want to do they want muay thai in the olympics right so you can't score the body kick more than a leg kick in the olympics right the weapons have to be equal is what they want from the the international olympic committee because it used to be like, you know, I've been to Thailand three times now. And I'll go to Lumpini or Raja.

And, you know, these guys were like, and sometimes it would be foreigners, Farangs fighting against Thais. And they would like punch and, you know, and do all this low kicks and stuff like that. And then the Thai will throw two body kicks and they'll win the round. Because the body kick scores more. And the Thai scoring, I mean, it's designed for gambling, right? So it's one of those things where people scream, it's not traditional tie, it's not traditional tie, it's not traditional tie. At the end of the day, no one's saying the traditional tie is right either.

The body kick should not be worth more than a punch to the mouth. Well, I believe they've changed that now. They have. At IFMA. At IFMA, they have. Everything counts the same. It's just damage. Damage, right.

Hard shots. Yeah, hard shots versus, you know. But isn't it even that subjective? Like, what is a hard shot and what's not a hard shot? It is here, especially because it's the ABC. You know, Adelaide Byrd judged Kevin's fight with Yamato. She did. So.

Yeah. Nice lady. That's what I always say about Adelaide Byrd. Nice lady Nice lady. That's what I always say about Adelaide Burr. Nice lady. Yeah. That's it. Yeah.

I always smile when I see her. I always say hello to her. She's a very nice lady. I remember that fight. That shit drives me crazy though. Yeah. And literally,

it's my opinion is that she gave the fight to Yamato because I guarantee you she didn't know that elbows were supposed to mean more just because Kevin was bleeding.

And that's all she could see. I remember it was my 21st birthday. I walked off because I thought Kevin won. And then I'm like, wait, what just happened? Literally, there was one round where he threw seven body kicks, left body kicks in a row, unanswered. Just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And he had some blood on him he lost the fight i mean

what are you gonna do yeah unreal yeah it's unfortunate and it's it's it's not this the here's the thing i've been saying this forever nothing changes yeah you know what i was really surprised this past weekend i was talking to daniel cormier and i said i think the stupidest fucking rule is that 12 to 6 elbow. And he said, I like that rule. And I said, really? I said, you don't think that 12 to 6 elbow should be legal? He goes, you ever get hit by a 12 to 6 elbow on the ground?

I said, no, I haven't. And he said, believe me, man, it sucks. I go, but doesn't every elbow on the ground suck? Yeah. I mean, I would think that just getting hit this way, just a regular elbow sucks. On the ground, your head's planted. You're this way, you know, just a regular elbow sucks. On the ground, your head's planted. You're not going anywhere.

You're just taking it. It isn't legal in Muay Thai either from the clinch when you're going 12 to 6. It's not legal? No, no, no. But you can in the air, right? You can jump up in the air. Well, it's not legal in the U.S., I think. In the U.S., the 12 to 6 elbow, because it's ABC, is not legal. John Wayne Parr sent me a video of him leaping through the air and literally elbowing someone in the back of the head with it.

It's like, this doesn't count because when you're in the air, digital becomes analog. He sent me this ridiculous explanation. I saw that. Miriam's fight at IFMA, she ended up getting her fight, she was the gold medal fight, she ended up getting it moved to the king's cup and this was happening at the same time as the world championships just because she was landing so many 12 to 6 flying elbows on girls they'd never seen it from a woman before and she was going crazy yeah i mean literally just flying with just across the ring just chopping girls down with 12 to 6 elbows her performance that was like oh nine yeah

that performance on that she just run through girls like scary and that 12 to 6 elbow uh it's no more dangerous the most dangerous elbow in all of uh combat sports is the spinning elbow that's the most dangerous oh yeah that one that you landed how the fuck could a 12 to 6 elbow be more powerful than that there's no there's no more dangerous elbow. Tyler Toner, the kid that he landed on first, Dwayne's kid, he's a shootout veteran. He's a UFC veteran. Broke his orbital. Broke his orbital. He retired him.

He never fought again. His eye started to sink into his cheek. He had to put a plate on the bottom because the eye was sinking in. The broken orbital is so weird because oftentimes it changed the way the eye looks. Like, you remember when Bob Sapp? Well, I think he has a lazy eye now. Yeah, he does. Yeah, Cro Cop broke Bob Sapp's eyeball.

Like, he punched his eyeball through the back of his head where the orbital, you know, there's a hole, right, where the eyeball sits. Like, you see that thing? Yeah. He was fractured behind it. And so now Bob's got one eye that's big and one eye that's little from getting tagged by Crow Cop. The 12-6 elbow has no more effect than any other standard elbow. That was a straight left hand with kickboxing gloves on. That's how hard Crow Cop hits.

Think about that shit. He was a bad dude, man. Yeah, he was a bad motherfucker. And still is. Yeah, he was a bad motherfucker. And still is. And the thing, though, is that it just doesn't make any sense to me that, like, here's one that people are trying to say that should be banned. That side kick to the knee or the oblique kick to the knee.

How is that? Why would you ban that when you don't ban heel hooks? That seems crazy to me. Why would you ban that when you don't ban wheel kicks like it's okay to literally bounce your heel off someone's head when you're spinning your body around like a top and you have unbelievable power like a wheel kick like remember that when Terry Adam got knocked out by Edson Barbosa oh my god he just he froze in the air and just dropped it was literally like someone hit his switch that might be the best spinning kick

I've seen. It was the first ever wheel kick KO in the UFC. We've had a few since then, but it's just such a crazy technique. You got that? Here it is. Watch this. Put on the commentary. What do you want to do?

Do you want to take a chance and risk getting knocked out? I was literally saying Take a chance And risk getting knocked out And Terry Adam got knocked out He's frozen Yeah I mean

That shit was perfect Barbosa man That's a bad dude He's a bad motherfucker One of my favorite fights of him Was when he fought Anthony Njikwani Oh

That was a badass fight That was a great fight That was I think that's my favorite Stand up fight I've seen Well Njikwani Is such a great kickboxer himself just muay thai fighter what's he's doing now that's he's he's his last fight was muay thai so he's all muay thai now so he's doing that yeah yeah he he won uh he won the triumphant title is his brother muay thai fighting as well no

chidi is doing uh i think he might be in that tournament. Is he? Is he? I don't know. Chidi signed with Bellator. No, but he's not making 170 anymore. He's fighting 185. Is Bellator doing Michael Page versus Semtex, Paul Daly? Are they going to do that? Yeah, they're doing it. And then they're in opposite brackets of Musashi.

Oh, good lord. Bellator reveals welterweight tournament bracket including Michael Page versus Paul Daly. So Page versus Daly's on one side. They're on this side. Is Musashi going to fight at 170? Wait a minute. That's not real, right?

Musashi's fighting 170? No. Rory's going up to fight Musashi. This was just announced today. Okay, so Rory and Musashi separate. Musashi's a big 185 today. Okay. Rory and Musashi separate. This is the Welterweight Grand Prix. Musashi's a big 185er. Make that larger again so I can see what this is.

This is really strange. So what they're doing is they're going to do Rory McDonald is staying inside. Champ versus champ. Yeah. So Rory McDonald is staying in this Welterweight Grand Prix as well. But he's fighting. It's a super fight. Yeah, but he's doing the super fight September 29th.

And Lorenz Larkin's still in the mix, too. He's an alternate. He's a beast, man. Lorenz Larkin is a fucking beast. You know what I mean? He lost to Lima, and then he got stopped by Daly. But that guy's still. He's a monster.

And Korshkov, man, look. Did you see that spinning back kick that Korshkov landed? He literally sent that dude flying through the air. I fought on that card earlier. That was crazy. And Douglas Lima looks like a heavyweight. Looks like a heavyweight. You're like, how the fuck is that guy 170?

He's got to be one of the bigger weight cutters in the sport, right? Absolutely. See, this is what I'm thinking when I'm looking at this. I'm like, this is a really good tournament. Like, Bellator is getting really close. When you got Lima, who's world class, Koroshkov, world class. We saw that when he fought Benson Henderson for sure, right? But Lima stopped him.

And then you got Paul Daly, who literally can stop anybody. That motherfucker lands that left hand. He can put anybody to sleep. He knocked out Harkin. That's going to be a banger. Fuck, yeah. And Rory McDonald, who shut Paul Daly down and also beat Lima. And then you got John Fitch, who seems reborn after he beat Paul Daly.

Very interesting, right? It's a good tournament. Plus, very little drug testing. We're California-based, Joe Joe we don't know about all that we got C-set I don't know what you're talking about but it's fascinating you see the difference between guys in the early days

of the UFC when it was the wild west versus now I mean bodies have changed careers have taken different paths yeah listen I'm a fan if it's not legal have taken different paths. Listen, I'm a fan. If it's not legal, then it should all be illegal, and I'm a fan of USADA. They visit my gym. Poor Alexis has been tested so much. Alexis gets tested, like,

in two months, I think they came, what, four times? Why do they test her so much? I don't know. Rumors? No. Do they operate on rumors? No, no, no. If you look at Alexis Davis, she's not someone that somebody thinks is. No, that's what I'm saying. That'm saying like that's why i think it's just because the usada rep is is very active in that area yeah so she's come she's tested todd she's tested dustin she's tested alexis a lot todd yeah todd duffy yeah um she's tested a lot oh so well todd duffy was on testosterone

replacement at one point in time before my time i believe so well he was when he was like 25. yeah he wasn't yeah it wasn't he's he's been he's been with me now for like the past year i renegotiated his ufc agreement i love todd he was great guy todd as a heavyweight was fighting for like 10 and 10. uh before i renegotiated his deal. But he just had shoulder surgery and he just had knee surgery. So we're hoping to get him back. He has knee surgery? Yeah, last week. Oh, man.

Shoulder surgery and knee surgery. He had shoulder surgery like six months ago. He's still young though, right? Yeah, he is. Yeah, he's not that old. I think mentally he thinks he's older than he is. He's a good dude. As a heavyweight, him being a heavyweight, me being a featherweight, we can train together and spar.

And he's just so controlled and so quick. That's awesome. So quick for a heavyweight. We don't spar hard. We really don't. You don't? No. We don't.

No. The hardest I sparred for my last fight was probably when Cody came down or when I went up there. That was twice in two months. We don't. Really? Yeah. I don't spar hard. That is so fucking smart, and I love hearing that because I just feel like so many fighters make that mistake.

Yeah. Well, you come from a boxing background. You spar like three days a week, at least two, right? And you're going as hard as you can. And then kickboxing, ties, they don't spar that hard. People go, oh, well, they don't spar that hard. You go, oh, well, you know, they're done fighting or whatever. But the truth of the matter is, is that with all of the weapons that you have in MMA and all the weapons that you have in tieboxing, you're sparring hard with those weapons.

The chance of injury is through the roof. If you're throwing spinning elbows in training, it's full clip. I can show it. I use him as the example because a lot of people come up, well, coach, if I don't throw this hard, how am I going to know that I can land it in a fight hard? Well, Gaston's never put anybody down with a spinning elbow in the gym and he can land it in a fight. It's bullshit. And I can show it really well in the gym to the point that I'm like right there. Right, right.

And I just stop and I'm like, I just raised my hand and I'm like, that would have been it. And most people are training like that. Yeah, no, that would have been it. And most people agree. Good for you for training like that. Yeah, no, we've never been a hard sparring game. It's one of the more controversial debates, right, whether or not you should spar hard. It's not really a good thing. You have to. Absolutely.

Some people. Firas thinks you have to. I disagree with Firas. I disagree. I listen to the interview. He was hiring people to try to knock out George. Yes. I get that, and I understand it.

I don't agree with it. I just don't. The human body is fragile, man. The brain is fragile. You cannot condition an organ. Right, but how can you argue with his success rate? I mean, it's really interesting. It's like he's, look, AKA, who the fuck spars harder than AKA?

Those guys are animals. They go at each other. But look, Luke Rockhold, world champ. Daniel Cormier, world champ. Cain Velasquez, world champ. Khabib Nurmagomedov, world champ. And a fucking litany of assassins just waiting in the wings. In my opinion, succeeding in spite of, not because of.

Interesting. Yeah, well, it's certainly a debate debate and your opinion is very well respected. And I am on your side. I like the idea of, I think you know how to fight and what you're really doing is sharpening up your reaction times and your techniques and ingraining those paths, right? You're ingraining those reaction paths. And I don't necessarily think that the way to do that is to go full clip. But I think oftentimes when you do that, it actually makes you have less options inside

the cage because you're so wound up and tight. And when you're sparring that way, you're fighting. Didn't Robbie Lawler stop sparring for a while? He stopped sparring for like seven years. I mean, you develop. I have people that come to the gym and again when it when it comes to stand up only you know i'll put our record and our people against anybody in north america and we don't spar hard and i get people to come to the

gym all the time coming from a hard sparring background and they are missing weapons they are missing tools they are are in fight or flight mode right away. You are developing that sniper, bite down on your mouthpiece attitude, which is one attribute of fighting. Sometimes you do need to bite down on your mouthpiece, but it doesn't

work out for at least one of the two people doing it in a fight. I like what you just said. It's one attribute of fighting. Absolutely. It is one. You can't deny that it is one. But it in a fight. Yeah, I like what you just said. It's one attribute of fighting. Absolutely. And it is one. I mean, you can't deny that it is one, but it is only one. And technical proficiency is the most important. Yeah, being able to throw jabs, establish jabs, establish probes,

use fakes and feints, movement, and being defensively sound. And have that incredible variable repertoire, that toolbox. And that was one of the things you saw in the fight with Cody versus TJ. TJ had a bigger toolbox in terms of his movement. I mean, he was more fluid while he was doing it. And that ultimately proved to be what was most important in that fight. I'll 100% go to the grave believing cody is a far better boxer than tj um that didn't translate into an mma fight on saturday night for whatever reason um you know whether

it's anger whether it was the last fight whether it was game plan lack of coaching what whatever it was um 100 i i believe that you know c Cody did not show who or what he is that Have you worked with Cody? No. Would you want to? Sure. I'll work with anybody that has a good attitude and is willing to embrace my way of doing things.

Because I think he's a very talented guy, and I think he could really benefit from training with someone like you. Yeah, again, and I think that the relationship that we're developing with Alpha Male, they've got a ton of great guys there, is a good one. But I'm careful not to overstep my bounds. Right, I see what you're saying. Don't say, hey, I could fix you. No.

Come on over here, kid. No, that's shit. No, no, yeah. I wouldn't do that. The guys there that want to work with me, I happily work with, and they allow my guys to go up there and wrestle, which is what we need. So it's been a good fit, but I would never poach anybody. Good for you, man. Good for you. Yeah, you don't want that bad blood. You don't want that bad juju on you. Definitely not. You don't want that bad juju on you. Definitely not.

So going forward with your camp and with your career, what are you guys doing now that's different than you have done in the past? Have you added anything in terms of strength and conditioning or recovery or anything that you find really beneficial? Strength and conditioning has always been something that we've done really well. For us, recently over the last couple of years, we added Darren. I think he's really kind of the – Darren who? You and Yamaha.

Yeah, I know. Million people listening. But the bone crusher. We've added the bone crusher. He's our head MMA coach. I'm his striking coach. But what he's brought to the table for us – He's got a fun Instagram to watch.

Oh, absolutely. Apparently he likes guns. Yeah does he does yeah he does there's such a such an incredible iq when it comes to fighting and then it made so much knowledge and so many things like sometimes you can agree like sometimes you click with people and like that's what happens between me and him like i only like rolling with him really because he he'll get me in positions that i'm gonna probably be in the fight but he'll like walk me through them right at the same time versus like just like ah like it's different the learning curve for a striker there are two different languages right that's why the grapplers have trouble striking the strikers have trouble grappling someone like darren who can do

both that can take a kid like gaston and can walk him through the positions, the right choices, the wrong choices, in the moment while he's doing it is very rare that I have found. And Darren, you know, again, he's half Gracie Black Belt, Fila World Champion, but he started out working the front desk at Fairtex. So he's been around grappling. Alex Gong is his idol. You know, that's his brother from another, you know, I mean. So, you know, we checked off bucket lists for Darren,

and he's done two Muay Thai fights at a pro level now. um you know just pro muay thai and he's done well yeah i've been following that yeah it's interesting to watch and and it's one of those things where he wants to shoot boxing now and wants to go back to japan and whatever he wants to do i'm going to support him in but his knowledge of the entire mma game has helped our gym so much and our fight team i mean i think in the in the UFC our win rate is like 78%. Matt, Dustin, Alexis, all these people came to us off of losing records.

Dustin lost two in a row. He's about to get cut. Matt lost three in a row. Alexis had lost two in a row. We have a lot of people Dustin looked fantastic in his last fight. That head kick came out of nowhere. What a crazy angle. And the hand was up and everything and still it just went through went through the hand so it's also the angle was like

it was like a 45 degree uh head kick well well dustin's flexibility isn't that great so that's the kick we work on yeah he can't turn it over the same way stretch well he does he does but absolutely absolutely but from a flexibility standpoint. And he's been doing that for so long. He can throw that kick the way he throws it. So we embraced it. Because it's kind of like an off-speed pitch almost. Yes.

You know what? It seemed like he like slowed it down and then, boom, picked it up again. That is exactly what Mark De La Grata said. That's exactly what he said when he described it. We talked about it the other day. Yeah. And again, that's why we talk about people switching. When we when when we talk about matthias his opponent i remember his last name um you know we knew what a great boxer he was but whenever he went southpaw he didn't do anything

southpaw didn't dustin do some work with that sand dune stepper he does all the time all the time he does all the time i've got that thing here now yeah no dustin swears by it he loves that thing he's on it every day. That is a crazy, for people that don't know what it is, they sent me one. The sand dune stepper is like these two really smushy pads that are together. And it's great for, it's almost like standing on a stability ball. Right. Like you stand on them and they're all mushy and you got to kind of use all your stabilizing muscles.

I've never used it. Use it right here, man. Dustin runs on it. Yeah. I here, man. Dustin runs on it. Yeah. I mean, literally, he just sprints on it. Just does left, right, left, right, left, right. Yeah. All day long.

And he does upper body, too. And he, correct me if I'm wrong, he had some ankle issues, and that corrected it for him? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So, no, he's somebody who, literally, like we talk about in my gym, Dustin showed up one day.

He didn't even call me. It was before the Makovsky fight. He showed up about my gym, Dustin showed up one day. He didn't even call me. It was before the Makovsky fight. He showed up in my gym one day and started taking classes. I didn't even know who he was. Wow. I had no idea who he was. Well, he had come in like two years before that. Right.

When he was with Duke. When he was with Duke, he came in and visited, like did a class. Then he came back in, did a class, and I was like, are you still with UFC? And he's like, yeah, I got a fight coming up. He said, will you train me? And I said, sure. And I said, that's fine.

So we trained him for it. I was actually in Italy with Kevin for Bellator. Gaston's the one that cornered him when he fought Makovsky. I saw you out there in Toronto. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that first fight. And literally, that first camp, he and I didn't do a single pad session. All he did was classes.

Wow. That was it. That's how humble he is. He didn't come in, I'm a UFC guy, I'm this and that. And that's what I'm looking for. Him and I worked a little bit. We did a little, because I was going to corner him. Kieran obviously knew he was going to be cornering Kevin.

So I went up there with him. So we started working a little bit together. But he's such a great guy, man. Good vibes from Dustin Ortiz. Yeah, he seems like a really great guy. And he's got like six goddamn lungs. He'll just never get tired. He's one of those guys.

He's a 125er. I'm a featherweight, but you can spar like 20 rounds with that guy and he will not stop coming at you. Well, with this win this past weekend when Cejudo beat DJ, that weight class just opened wide up. That's what happens when something like that happens.

It happened when Chris Wyiden beat Anderson Silva. When the undefeatable champion gets beaten and all of a sudden contenders will rise. Yeah. And so this is an interesting time for everybody at 125.

It's just such a hard weight class to find elite fighters. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I've talked to Bellator about it because I've had other people out and they have no interest in it.

None. No interest in 25? Nope. No. They're debating how long they want to keep 35 really yeah really interesting but they don't do women uh in kickboxing under 125 you know they won't go near it and they don't do women over 145 and they don't want any men they don't have any men you've never seen a man kickbox for Bellator less than 145 pounds. It's never happened. Is that because they're worried about power? I think they're just worried about marketability, really.

Right. Yeah. But the thing is the bigger people hit harder. It's kind of more exciting to watch. Absolutely. Listen, gentlemen, this has been fun. It's always fun. It's fun this time.

I didn't talk last time i got a lot of shit for not talking last time you talked a little a little bit a little bit people who gave you shit just everybody oh they want you to talk i'm like tell them to shut the fuck up i did it wasn't it wasn't about me it was about kevin and gaston thank you for having us oh my pleasure anytime and uh listen i think what you're doing is really awesome i love the fact that you're competing in three different sports and the fact that you're doing it at the highest level it's it's really inspiring and it's interesting and it's very compelling you know and you're doing it in an awesome way yeah well thank you very much man i i keep i plan on keep doing it and

i want as far as long as i can so i just go solely into mma but yeah man i'm having fun i love fighting i've been doing this since I was 12 years old so I like to stay busy so anything that I can do if I can do Muay Thai if I can do kickboxing

if I can do MMA I'll do it all and CSA Gym on Instagram it's just CSA Gym correct? it's at CSA Gym

Instagram Facebook and Twitter and Dreamkiller underscore Bolanos and spell Bolanos for the people like me those all right beautiful yeah thank

you gentlemen thank you thank you so much thank you