The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #49 with Miriam Nakamoto

Episode Date: November 28, 2018

Joe is joined by World Champion Muay Thai and MMA fighter Miriam Nakamoto

Here we go. Four, three, two, boom. And we're live. Hello, Miriam. Hi, Joe. Good to see you. Grab this mic and keep it like a fist from your face. That's a good reference point.

Is this good? Perfect. Okay. Perfect. Just zip it up like that? Yeah. Good to see you. It's so good to see you.

I'm sad that you can't sell these snacks everywhere because I know you're working on making these mass produced, but they're fucking fantastic. Yeah. Good to see you. It's so good to see you. I'm sad that you can't sell these snacks everywhere because I know you're working on making these mass produced, but they're fucking fantastic. Yeah. They're very good. When did you first give me some of these? Like five years ago or some shit? 2014. Something like that? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My knee blew out. I just had surgery and I needed something to do. That was knee number one. The second one. That was the number one. The second one. That was the second one.

Yeah. And I've had two more since. So I've had four. Total. The life of a world champion Muay Thai kickboxer is not an easy one. No, it actually started when I started grappling. That's when it started blowing your knee out? Yeah.

Yeah, no. Muay Thai was fine. I got cracked ribs. I got cut. I got maybe concussions. Maybe concussions? Really bad. Like, broke my elbow on somebody's head.

Oh. Yeah, but no knee stuff. It was MMA. Jiu-jitsu. Yeah, wrestling and jiu-jitsu are rough on the knees. I think this motion, not awesome on the cartilage. It's like a weird motion. You mean like hip stuff?

Knees, when you do like that with your... So like on your back, like working your guard, that kind of thing? That's what you think did it? Well, I just, yeah, and 20 years of use on this body. Well, it does put, it puts weight in weird ways on your knees too. Like if someone's trying to pass your guard and they're moving your ankles around stuff. You have to swivel. You have to swivel with their weight and their violence directed at you.

So, yeah. I saw you getting a bunch of fluid on Instagram shot into there. What is that all about? I think it was like orthovisc. What is that? It did not help. No? That was a waste of money.

Yeah. It was like a gooey fluid. Yeah, it was like orthovisc what is that did not help no that was a waste of money that was yeah it was like a like a gooey fluid yeah it was like like padding oh is that what the idea is but what was what was really nice was i got a straight shot of ibuprofen in there that felt amazing yeah like three months worth of ibuprofen just shot it right in there really yeah that shit is so bad for you though is it it felt really good yeah i tell everybody stay the fuck away from ibuprofen really yeah dr ronda patrick is the first person that alerted me to it the increased risk of strokes and heart attack and and then um my friend cam haynes who's an ultra marathon runner he um he was taking 800 milligrams a day every day okay for how long forever that's a lot it's a lot that's different it is different

i just got one super shot well he was right he basically runs almost a marathon a day yeah that's crazy yeah because he runs these 240 mile races so he was having these serious pains like he's like i need it to get going so i told him about all the heart attack stuff and the stroke stuff he's like fuck so he gets off of it all of his inflammation relaxes and calms down turns out what was going on was the ibuprofen severely upsets your gut bacteria and so when that happens it causes systemic inflammation which you then treat with ibuprofen so he takes out the ibuprofen, all the gut problems go away, all the inflammation goes away, all his hip pains, knee pains, all that shit went away, which is crazy. I think ibuprofen is great if you do it every, just rarely.

Something's going on, you need... What I noticed when he shot that into my knee, within the next week, over the course of a couple days, I noticed that I had greater range of motion. So what it made me realize was, oh, I had a little inflammation in there. Because I kept thinking, is it the tissue tight? Is this homeboy shooting? What is he shooting in here, this video? A ortho-visc. This is that stuff that didn't work. With no gloves on.

Yeah. Everybody's always commenting about that. on yeah what are you supposed to have gloves on kind of fucking doctor is this where were you in a garage somewhere free clinic yo look at you so what is that ortho visc stuff supposed to do? It's supposed to give it padding. Yeah, it didn't really help. It was a waste of money and time. How much did that shit cost?

I think it was like $200 or $220 a shot, and I got three of them. Maybe it's for regular people. Maybe it would work for regular people, not for people that are throwing a lot of kicks. The kicks don't bother me. I bet it is in the kicks, right? I think about that like it is grappling, right? That is the thing that puts the most wear on you. If you meet like old kickboxers,

I mean, some of them have brain damage for sure, but their bodies aren't as broken down as old grapplers. No, they might be hobbling a little bit. Their toes might kind of... You see Rob? Rob Kamen, remember him? Oh, yeah. Yeah, his toes are like... Rob's foot, remember him? Oh yeah, Rob's are all fucked up.

Rob's foot looked like he jumped into a pool that was empty and landed on his big toe. Yeah, all of them. But when you're a guy like Rob who's been kicking shins

and elbows for so long, he's amazing. I, it sucks. It hurts my heart that he missed the, you know. The fame wave. Because he's brilliant.

He's fucking brilliant. He really is. Yeah. And he helped a lot of fighters, too. I mean, he was a big part of Brennan Vera's early success. Yeah. And that's when I was training with him, back in the old bomb squad days.

And he was working with a lot of kickboxers, and people were starting to catch on to his whole system. I couldn't even, when I got to work with him, and I couldn't, at the time, I was so green as a fighter, or just as a martial artist, that I couldn't comprehend what he was trying to show me and tell me and he's like no you're gonna have programs counters to the counters yeah and he was like trying to dial me and program me in and i couldn't keep up with him

right you know at the time i was just too i wasn't at that level well you know what the difference is like some people just use athleticism and timing and they just they just try to be creative what he does is he has a full system of like what to do in varying positions and what to do depending upon your opponent's reaction but then on top of that there's also creativity which is and savagery yeah oh yeah he's savage he's super he's yeah he's very savage. Well, his highlight reel, pull up Rob Kamen's highlight reel. I mean, he knocked out... And that porn stash. Back in the Diz-Aid, right? Yeah, that porn stash. That's thin

Rob Kamen. It's really incredible when you think about how many great fighters came out of Holland. And kickboxers in particular. It's just one small country and here it is right here. to see some of it look at rob cameron pulling up in a motorcycle sexy bitch so stoic too angry well back in the day he was

which is really interesting if you know him now because he's so friendly and yeah yeah yeah huggy and he's like a big fluffy dog yeah He's a fascinating guy He really is But his knowledge of kickboxing Is just so fucking tremendous I love how he's sitting down on his punches Like a boxer And like shifting his weight Because I don't see

A lot of kickboxers that do that well Yeah They're still here And then they rotate rotate but they don't he's like really kind of getting in here you know like a boxer more do you think that's because when you do dig down you're you're sort of compromising your ability to throw kicks for a brief moment because you're really digging in but he's knowing he knows when to do it too it's his fight iq right it's knowing when to do it and it's also I my pet peeve with Muay Thai look at him

my pet peeve with Muay Thai is when they throw punches they kind of come up it's like very triumphant looking isn't it it's like and it's like that doesn't make any fucking sense because you won't punch with power not the same power um and you can't get out of the way why do you think they do that I didn't think I just think they weren't taught well. I wasn't. I just recently started changing my style. But when you kick, you're up. You kind of come up into the kick.

You raise up, and then they try to punch in that way. And I really feel like just with mixed martial arts, when you are doing wrestling, you have to be respectful that you're doing MMA fight, but kind of embody that. That wrestling technique, when you're punching, you've got to embody that punching technique. When you're kicking, you've got to embody that kicking technique. And same with jiu-jitsu. You wouldn't stand as a Muay Thai fighter if you're doing a wrestling move in an MMA fight.

Of course. And I think with Muay Thai fighters, they don't understand that. It's like when you're punching, you need to kind of sit down and rotate. You got to hotate, I like to say. Hotate? Hotation. You got to have good hotation. And then when they kick, they got to come up.

When they knee, they got to come up. It's different. And they don't make that distinction, and then they don't optimize on their body and the power that they could produce. That's always been a big issue with MMA is fighters trying to figure out exactly how to position themselves and how to move and then all the variables, right? How many different ways there are to do it really successfully.

Like you see how Conor McGregor stands. Wide stance, kind of sideways. He stands almost like a karate guy. He's built around his his strong weapons yeah yeah whereas different guys have you know different ways of doing like you know daniel cormier very different style you know hands up high moves forward you know a lot of bobbing and weaving is much more like he doesn't really give a fuck if you get your hands on him though no where connor does right where con like, can you stay away from this?

Exactly. Can you stay away? Exactly. And his is more like, come at me, bitch. Yeah, grab me, bitch. Like, I'm going to come and get you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

So it's different. Yeah. Yeah, it is. But it's fascinating also how a lot of people that come from certain backgrounds, like even wrestlers who come from a wrestling background, they have to alter their own wrestling style for MMA. Like a lot of wrestlers, specifically guys who stand in an orthodox position

when they're boxing, but if they were a right-handed wrestler, a lot of times they'd be standing softball. And they'd be shooting with the right leg forward. So it's a lot of... Judo too, right? Yeah. It's a lot of weird...

Like MMA is such a different thing. It's so different. There's so... Like, it's where all the pieces come together, and some of them don't line up that good. Yeah. Yeah. I think the best people are the ones that can make it line up. Sure.

Yeah. And... With the most fluidity. When you see, particularly you, because you're a world champion muay thai fighter and when you see the level of stand-up in mma for sure now with women it's the highest it's ever been right like right around now but it's still not quite the level that you would see in like championship muay thai except for girls like valentina she's amazing. She's amazing. Yeah. She's amazing. Cyborg, of course, is very scary. I take,

yeah, she is. She's so nice. Super nice, right? You can grab this, pull that. Sorry. That's all right. This here?

Yeah, you can move it around. Oh, there we go. There you go. All right. Yeah. Yeah, have you met her? Yeah. Have you like really?

I feel bad for making fun of her. I've made fun of her before. Yeah. Yeah, don't. She's very nice. She's so nice. She's, she's made fun of her before yeah yeah she's very nice she's so nice she's um just got like this really uh tender soul or heart you know and which is funny which seems genuine yeah very genuine yeah very very genuine and she's smashing people yeah well that's genuine too yeah

it's like so whatever it is it's a hundred percent And there's something really rare and so powerful. Because people aren't 100%. Right. They aren't 100% fully just heartbroken, wide open, soft. And then they're not 100% violent. Right. And she's just like 100%. It's so cool about her yeah that's

interesting right like when she fights she's a hundred percent committed and violent yeah and that is that's that's something that you see in a lot of a lot of champions it's like there's there's an ability like there's an ability to be like a really nice person and then a terrible person. Not even a terrible person. A furious competitor. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

When you first started fighting, did you just find that inside of you? Did you know it was always there? Like that's – because you're a person that if I had to – like if I had to explain you, like you're like very energetic and fun loving you're a very nice person skipping around your studio you're fun you're a fun person I mean we probably met in like I want to say it was 2003 it was the bomb squad days I was about 28 yeah back in 42 the dizzay yeah right yeah yeah but you've always been like that. But then when I've seen you fight, like this is a different Miriam.

Like Miriam, when Miriam comes to fight, it's like, oh, she got a little switch in there. Yeah. You hit a switch and then you become a different person. And it's not just that you're a competitor. You become super hyper-focused and aware and ruthlessly aggressive. Yeah. Yeah. Did you know that was always in you before you fought?

I always knew that I would always have trouble with girlfriends. I don't mean like dating. I mean like trying to have a girl that's a friend when I was younger because I would hurt them. You'd hurt them physically? Yeah. Accidentally? Yeah. Like what do you mean?

Like I was wrestling around with this one woman. I was like, yeah, we're going to be friends. We're like the same height and we're wrestling around, playing around. We were like partying in Vegas and we're wrestling and I wrapped my legs around her rib cage and squeezed and cracked something in there. Where were you?

You were on the ground? We went to Utopia, and then we went to this after-party afterwards. And you were drunk? I was in my 20s, drunk or whatever. Or whatever. And she was my size, so I thought she wanted to wrestle too,

so I was like, okay, I'll wrestle too. Ouch. Yeah, I cracked something in there, and she didn't want to be my friend anymore. She mad at you that was really sad oh yeah well you probably got off light anybody gets upset that you know yeah it's not like you meant to hurt her no but i'd be why the fuck that is a weird thing that people do right i mean i've seen guys do it and girls do it where they start play wrestling but they have no fucking idea what they're doing and then and then they hurt themselves and they bite off more than they could chew well it's a common thing for whatever reason people

get a little drunk or whatever and then they want to wrestle so what i used to do is i used to let people play around like with me and then i ended up getting stabbed in the eyes oh with fingers uh-huh oh yeah so now i don't i'm like all right cool that's the number one i don't want to play with you anymore mma for sure the fucking gloves i fucking hate it there's so many guys like look at michael bisping he has one eye that's like completely fucked up so where he's got oil in his eye. They should penalize higher for that. 100%. Yeah. I think that

that would, the behavior would decrease. I think so too. I think one point. I think one point for a nut shot and one point for an eye poke. Just period. You didn't mean to do it? That's great, but you did it. Well, for the second nut shot

no first nut shot really first nut shot first eye poke because I don't have nuts so I'm a little bit more lenient on that one

I'm like whatever well Brian Foster is a dude who fought for the UFC back in the day he lost a nut

it's not funny how dare you I knew somebody okay so no so it reminded me of this guy that was at the old uh fairtex clementina when back when alex gone was there and he so the rumor had it that he had one ball and yeah and he was kind of grumpy and sort of like insecure because he only had one ball yeah

i guess so so this i just thought of him and it just made me laugh. Okay. Yeah. So it's not just balls in general. No, but that would be really, that would be super painful to lose one of those. Apparently what happened with him is he was sparring and like, like one last round decided not to wear his cup and went out there and slambo got,

took on right on the sack and burst. He's still fighting. I saw him on a smaller, one of those, you know, like access TV fights. It reminds me of like a breast implant gets ruptured. Oh, that's so much worse than a breast implant. It's all over the place. If a breast implant helped you be a woman. It would be like if a breast implant helped you be a woman.

Because that's like the sack that produces your testosterone. What a stupid design. He has half less. Yeah. Yeah. Well, another buddy of mine lost one to cancer. And he just impregnated his lady. So it still works.

Yay. To you, Duncan. A toast. To Duncan. That's awesome. Yeah. But we're talking about Getting kicked in the balls Oh yeah

One point Just one point for eye pokes One point for ball shots Just take a point away Every time I think that would be giant I think that's fair It would fucking help

There's so many people Doing this The thing is A good eye poke Will change Change the Change the fight 100%

It can It can sway the fight One way or the other Yeah You know So I don't That's And people change the fight. 100%. It can sway the fight one way or the other. Yeah. You know, so, I don't,

that's, and people, they've gotten poked in the eye, the ref lets it continue and then they get fucked up and then they lose the fight that they were winning. Exactly. Yeah,

that's terrible. It's terrible. It's a huge swing. I think, one point, absolutely, and I think there should be a better way

to determine whether or not a guy's eyes have been compromised by that eye poke. And sometimes it's not within the – I mean, everybody wants to see the fight continue. But if you really had to think about it, like if this guy really can only see out of one eye, it's not right. Yeah. Yeah. Especially when it wasn't their fault. But it's also such a fucking shit design. All your fingers are just out there.

Maybe they should just curve them more. Yeah. Like the same design, just curved. So it'll automatically, like when you have a good hand wrap, like when they wrap your hands for the fight, when it's a good one, they just sit like this. Yes. Like your hands just sit there. Right.

So they're just already ready to, you know, it's perfect. Well, there's someone that I know that's working closely with the UFC that's working on a new design that I think is going to be far superior. Okay. But still the fingers are exposed. I think almost like the fingers should be covered. How are they going to grab, though? I think you cover it like a bag glove.

You know how bag gloves, like those old school Everlast bag gloves? That would be amazing for me. For a grappler, I don't think they'd like that. I think it'd be good for a grappler, too. If I had a grappler with bag gloves on, I don't think I'd have a problem with it. Maybe.

I don't think i'd have a problem with it the real problem is to grab the maybe you know like a wrestler and then i don't know i think the real i think it'd give you more traction honestly the real problem is the pad on the knuckle like when you're going behind the neck when you're choking going behind it's very hard to get that fucker behind the neck without that padding it is it's hard when you i've grappled with you know i've never had an m's hard. I've grappled with, you know, I've never had an MMA fight, but I had grappled quite a bit with gloves.

What are these? Those are the sparring ones. It's typed in grappling gloves and something like that. Yeah, those are just like, those are just a little bit more padding.

But those, yeah, I mean, that's a little bit better. Pride gloves are better, honestly, quite honestly. Pride gloves really had

much more curve to them. Yeah. And there was very few eye pokes in Pride. Pride gloves are better, honestly, quite honestly. Pride gloves really had much more curve to them. Yeah. And there was very few eye pokes in Pride. I won't even fuck with a boxing glove that doesn't curve. If I have to make a fist inside the glove, I'm not going to deal with that. That looks good. See, this is like someone had observed this a long time ago. Look at the UFC gloves on the right and the Pride gloves on the left.

The Pride glove is your hands curved. So that's a pride glove yeah yeah it's way better it's way better glove yeah and the back of your hand is like padded in a weird spot I don't know why they pad right here like right above the wrist where we scroll make that like right there the one that one you know though if you did a spinning back test and you hit, these are little bones. Yeah, they do break. But most of the time you're doing that, you're hardly ever doing it like a back fist. You're kind of doing it like a hammer fist. And then the real thing is happening with a lot of fighters is they're hitting foreheads.

Snapping arms. That's the one punch. Paul Felder just did that. If you hit me with it, I'll be fucking. You get mad? I get so mad. Why do you get mad? I don so mad. Why do you get mad? I don't know.

It's just bullshit. It's just bullshit. Why is it bullshit? Some fucking bullshit ass, I don't know. Is it a bullshit move? It's just bullshit. Some people have moves that they feel are bullshit moves. Yeah, that's why I'm just offended.

Like if somebody axe kicked you. No, I don't care. That wouldn't be bullshit? No, if they push kicked me in the face, I wouldn't care. Okay. I'd be like, all right. But a spinning back fist? Bullshit.

I'm offended. But it's so good. It's such a good technique, though. I don't know. Just some fucking cornball about that. Okay. What about spinning elbows, though? Elbows are awesome.

And I'm not great at them. That doesn't make any sense. I know. I know. I contradict myself. It doesn't have to. It doesn't have to make sense, right? No.

Yeah. It is weird, right well i mean i would i think they should allow spinning back fists in boxing make boxing way more interesting can you imagine how everybody would be so cocky you know oh my god so many guys do you know how mad the boxing fans would be how many guys would get flat? How many guys who don't know what the fuck to do about it? Spin! Superman punches? Well, Superman punches I think are legal.

Right? Aren't they? But they wouldn't react the same way, right? No one would think you're throwing a leg kick. Why is mine slatted? Because you have all this hair. Is it? Yeah, I'm bald as fuck. There you go. Form fitted. There you go. Oh, form fitted.

There you go. There we go. That's better. Oh, okay. Yeah, but why can't they spinning back fist in boxing? I don't know. Should be able to. They're purists.

They are very purists. Yeah. But I see where they're coming from in a certain way. Like when boxers talk shit about MMA and striking in MMA, I see where they're coming from. They're wrong because your shit won't work. Like, when boxers talk shit about MMA and striking in MMA, I see where they're coming from. They're wrong, because your shit won't work. Like, come try that shit. You're gonna get taken down, stupid.

Like, this is the whole reason why they do it a different way. But I actually do believe that a boxer with incredible footwork and a jab, a great jab, could survive and win in an MMA fight. As long as he doesn't fight a long guy with good kicks, like a Jon Jones.

Jon Jones just kicked the shit out of you from a distance. Yeah. And you're not even going to get close to him. And then by the time you've eaten all those leg kicks, you're not moving so good. Yeah, that's fair. And then he'll grab a hold of you and smash your face in. I agree. Yeah.

But yeah, I think footwork is the key. Do you remember when Vince Foster When he was Not quite world class anymore He had lost a title See this is what worries me Because I don't remember shit You don't remember shit? Way more of a fan than I am

Well he fought Masato But when Masato was The king of K-1 Over in Japan Masato The sexiest Japanese man I've ever seen Pretty sexy

Yeah he's super sexy But is he sexier than Sexyama? I don't know who Sexyama is What? I love Sexyama You don't know who Sexyama is? Sexyama fought in the UFC several times Fought in Pride

Oh, did he? Yeah I don't know who that is That's a great name, though Gorgeous, gorgeous man I feel like that should be a super sushi roll There he is There's Sexyama

Oh, no, Masato's way better looking Yeah, you say that You're not in Sexyama's presence Look no. Masato's way better looking. Yeah, you say that. You're not in Sexyama's presence. Look at that. I like the way he glows. Yeah, look at him. Man, he's beautiful. Look at those pecs.

Yeah, and he's got that cross dangling super low. What's going on with that? So you look. That cross, it's almost like a belly button ring or some shit. That's a deal breaker, right? A dude with a belly button ring? How about that? A guy, a gorgeous guy with a belly button ring.

That means he's freaky. Is that what it means? Or too vain. Or gay as fuck. More likely. That's something men just never rock. I think it means he's freaky or he takes too many selfies. Yeah, definitely.

Does that something any man has ever bravely tried to rock? I know guys do nipple rings Like a real freaky dude Would do nipple rings I think I've seen it once You've seen a belly button ring On a male I think so

One time I saw a pierced Who's that Masato Masato Oh there he is Beautiful I thought you were

Showing me a belly button ring There's better pictures of him There's better He's really good looking Masato's very handsome Yeah And still is Yeah

And you know And still You know Is very active And all sorts of promotions and stuff in Japan. Did you see when he fought... No, when he was going to fight Petrosian and Petrosian was killing Sauer. What happened? It was supposed to be his... His swan song.

Goodbye. Yeah. Yeah. And so he's watching Petrosian I think it was Sour destroy Andy Sour and he's just like fuck

this I'm good pull up Masato versus Vince Phillips because what was interesting about this it was

it was like do you remember when Shannon the Cannon decided to fight in K1 and he fought Tom Erickson in a kickboxing match? No? I don't remember. But that was a similar thing.

But Tom Erickson was a wrestler who was an MMA fighter. And Shannon Briggs ate a couple of leg kicks. And he was talking about it on the podcast. That he was trying to play it off. He was like, God damn, that shit hurt. But he wound up KOing Tom Erickson. But Tom Erickson, at the time, was not nearly the kind of striker

that Vince Phillips was when Vince Phillips fought Masato. Vince Phillips had beaten world-class fighters. I think, who did he beat? He beat some fucking high-level, world-class boxers. And then he got like 36, 37, 38, and then took this fight. Was he 37 at the time?

I don't know. So he fought Vince Phillips, but it was so weird seeing Vince Phillips walk out there barefoot. I mean, they should have let him wear boxing shoes. At least. Because he's not throwing any kicks. Yeah. And Masato just... Fucking outfit. Beautiful man. Perfect bone structure. Yeah. shoes at least because he's not throwing any kicks yeah and masato just get give me some outfit

beautiful man perfect bone structure yeah he's ridiculous perfect hair too yes oh yeah oh yeah and vince phelps is like what the fuck did i sign up for yeah that feeling that they have when they're they know they're about to get leg kicked so away, it opens up inside and just moves away from the punches, sets, goes up high, goes up high a bunch of times, kicking into the arms, and it goes across the leg. See, that's a weird one, right? The across the thigh nut shot. I never throw that one.

the across the thigh nut shot. I never throw that one. But this was, this is at the time, like one of the first times that a real world-class boxer had attempted a kickboxing fight. And that's... I love that he did this.

Franz Botha did that too. Do you remember Franz Botha? He was a heavyweight contender in boxing in the 80s and 90s. How much time a day do you dedicate to watching fights? If you talk to my wife and ask her what she told me about 10 minutes ago, I will not remember what the fuck she said. There's a lot of shit that I don't remember.

But I have storage units in my brain and stuff like, oh, that's interesting. What happened there? This happened. Oh, why did that happen? Why did this go wrong okay pull up uh georgio petrosian versus um uh andy sauer s-a-u-e-r is it no how's it how do you spell oh here's franz botha s-o-u yeah s-o-u so franz botha this is franz botha fat as fuck too he had. He had hit the wall. He was the white buffalo.

He's a South African heavyweight. But he actually learned how to kick a little bit. And he was not just boxing guys, but his hands were just way better than most kickboxers. Because he was, at one point in time, a real heavyweight contender. This is not a good example of this. This is 2015? Holy shit, dude. This guy was a fucking contender in the 90s.

He's already hurt. Yeah, this is... He should have thrown a knee. Did you watch the Chuck Liddell fight? Just the end of it. Yeah. Not good, right? How old is he now? 50. Damn. Yeah. Not good, right? How old is he now?

50. Damn. Yeah. So there's hope for me. Oh, wait. He lost. Shit. Well, you've never been knocked out the way he's been knocked out so many times.

I don't think I've ever been knocked out. Not in the gym? Not ever? Flash knockdown. That's it. Knockdown. Yeah. I've had concussions and been knocked out from, like, falling in the rain

and falling off a second floor landing when I was a kid. Right. But in fighting, I never, mm-mm. Chuck's also, I think there was an issue with his style because his style was so aggressive, aggressive, that people could just set, set, set, boom, and counter, like Rashad Evans did with him. And so you're getting his momentum coming forward and the shot, and he would get flatlined.

He doesn't change. No. He doesn't evolve. He had a style that was incredibly effective back in the day. And I think he became married to that approach. The approach that worked so well on Babalu, so well on Tito in the day. Yeah. And I think he became married to that approach. You know, the approach that worked so well on Babalu, so well on Tito in the early fights. He was just a marauder.

You could hit him in the face with a fucking crowbar and he would just spit metal out at you. He didn't give a fuck. He was so badass back in the day. He relied on that so much. I remember all the Mohawks. Yeah, everybody. The little kids.

Yeah. They all liked to wear Mohawks back in the day. People were getting Japanese symbols tattooed on their head because of him. Yeah.

Yeah, it's just, that style, there comes a certain point in time where you just can't do that anymore, you know?

I think, I don't know, like, it's the martial artist, you know? And, artists evolve. And they're like, know, like, it's a martial artist, you know, and artists evolve. And they're like, oh, well, let me try this new paint. Oh, let me try this new technique.

Let me try this shading. Let me, you know, start sculpting. Let me try. And I think with especially MMA, you know, there's so much opportunity to evolve, just add new nuances to you as an artist. I mean, I think that's what I love about it. There certainly is, but one thing that does happen when guys try to add a lot of things, like say sometimes they'll try to like, say a wrestler will add a bunch of things to his repertoire,

but then they stop with their wrestling practice, so then their wrestling is not as sharp. And so then when they go up against a really good wrestler they falter and then they don't have what brought them to the dance in the first place yeah yeah yeah but i think that's just uh looking at your opponent what's in front of you and also like being honest with yourself and like like right now i'm looking at getting back into fighting and if i didn't feel the sharpness i didn't i didn't feel the fire and not just the fire if i didn't physically feel the sharpness if i didn't feel the reflexes i'd have to be honest with myself and say okay don't do this do you think that you would 100 be capable of being rational and objective about what

you can do right now yeah yeah. Yeah. Because I don't, I don't fight for participation awards. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not like, Hey, I'm a, but there's some UFC fighters are like,

I'm a UFC fighter. Right. Yay. I've made it. Like, that's not really making it. You're just another, you know,

like say I'm a world champion. I'm a, the best in the world. I'm a, that's, I'm a UFC fighter is'm a the best in the world i'm a that's i'm a ufc fighter is like a participation medal basically like level it shows that you're a very high level fighter you're very high level professional fighter right but you in your eyes you as a champion

yeah that is what's important you want to be the queen you want to be the top of the hill we want to be the best of your best self. Yes, your best self. Yeah. Yeah. There's one thing that I really like about individual sports, whether it's jujitsu or Muay Thai or boxing, is that you can focus on just one sport and all the various aspects of one sport. And there's so much subtlety and so much technique and so much to learn. I mean, you watch Floyd Mayweather's senior train people. It's really interesting because he's showing guys who are world-class fighters

like the subtle aspects of boxing and movement and things they're doing wrong. You know Simon Marcus. He was working with Simon Marcus, and he was doing some training with Simon Marcus. I'm like, this is so fascinating. That had to be hard. For a guy like Simon? Yeah, because he's very rigid. Yes.

And he gets so much power from his rigidity. Yeah. And so boxing is much more, it's not rigid. Right. It's like hip-hop. Right. It's got that beat to it and that swag to it. And Simon Marcus is just so... That Muay Thai, hard style, and a lot of grappling, clenching, and moving forward.

Yeah, he's a very physically strong guy, too. Yeah, he looks like he's on shit. But he's not. He does, doesn't he? He's got good jeans. Yeah, great jeans. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Remember Joe Schilling?

Yes. And Simon Marcus? Yes. That beef. Fuck. Yeah. That fourth round. I do remember that.illing? Yes. And Simon Marcus? Yes. That beef. Fuck. Yeah. That fourth round. I do remember that.

What a fucking crazy fight. I was there for that. And there was all the controversy on the first one, right? Because there was the illegal, was it illegal? He hooked the back of the heel or something. And then on the throat, on the, yeah. This is the other fights. Their first fights.

Yeah, see. The first one. The first fight, Simon Marcus won. But it was like a knock, he got knocked out. Right. Joe did. From when Simon fell on him. And he also put his foot behind his heel.

Right. I guess. And there was a lot of controversy about that, whether that was legal or not. Right. And Muay Thai. Yeah. And then when he fell on him, I guess he hit Joe in the jaw with the jaw with his his forehead or something and so joe got up like this right did you remember that yes i do now yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so the revenge to have it in that last

man standing tournament which was a fucking crazy thing to begin with where they were gonna have to fight three times in a night i don't remember that was that yeah yeah so uh they fought in the first round joe fought simon and it went three rounds and it was a draw and so in the fourth round they had to come out both guys were like holy you know glory goes one more round so they're like fuck and simon mar Marcus had kept spitting out his mouthpiece. And Big John McCarthy took a point away. So he goes, he takes a point away from Simon. Because Simon was exhausted.

Because they were going to war. That's a trick. Absolutely. Absolutely. He was spitting out his mouthpiece, trying to gain some time. He's pretty fucking jacked. He's so jacked. And so now he's got one point down going into a fight that's a draw.

So he's got to move forward. So he comes after Joe. And Joe knows he's got one point down going into a fight that's a draw, so he's got to move forward. So he comes after Joe, and Joe knows he's got to come at him. So Joe starts countering, and he catches him with this fucking nasty right hook. I think it's coming soon. It's like right here, three or four seconds. Well, it was a wild fight, just a wild series of exchanges. And I think Simon, yeah, here it is. Simon's moving forward. Boom!

There it is. And Simon had knocked Joe down early in the fight. I think he knocked Joe down in the first. Nice. So Joe lost the first round and then probably won the second and third.

So it was a tie going into the fourth. Wow. Yeah. It was a crazy fight. Awesome fight, though. They actually fought in Lion Fight, too. I've had a lot of concussions. Could be wrong.

But I thought it was their first fight. I think they have fought three times. The controversy. Yes. And then the second fight was in Lion Fight. And it was winner take all, the purse. And then I think it was Glory. Yeah.

I think you're right. Yeah. That was round two we got knocked out in. Yeah. I loved Lion Fight. I wish they had kept it on AXS TV. I don't know what the fuck happened. I don't know where it is now.

I think it's like on a web app or some shit. I was afraid to fight Lion Fight because of the judging. Really? Yeah. There were some screwy decisions. Yeah, I was just like, eh. But is that an athletic commission thing? That seems more like an athletic commission thing than a Lion Fight thing.

But does it matter? Because they keep doing it in the same spot, so it doesn't matter. Well, that's the case with Vegas, though. I mean, Vegas has some terrible fucking judging sometimes. Yeah. And it's not, I mean, I don't know how you fix that other than fire anyone who has any shitty decisions it seems like you can't even you can you petition you can but nobody wins see that's fucked up it is fucked up that's i can't imagine when has anyone in your

recent memory or in your memory period when has anyone appealed a decision and won i've never i've never heard of it that's crazy you think about all the fights that we've seen and that we've never we don't we can't even recall someone who got fucked who went back and reviewed the tape look i i'm hitting them three to one two to one and still lose a decision which has happened. That has happened. There have been some egregious, horrible decisions. What I hate about this is I think that the judges don't really think about that it's our lives. If I have this loss, because of your error, the next time I fight, I make less money. And I'm already not making that much money. You're not even thinking about how,

how, what this does to me as, as an, as a fighter, you know? Yeah. It doesn't. I don't think that it's,

they're not thinking about that. I think it's, they're not competent. I think when they're, I think there's certainly corruption and there's certainly people that get bribed. I guarantee that does still probably happen. How do guarantee probably i can't right but i think more likely than that is you're seeing incompetence i think you're seeing people that don't have any martial arts

training that's fucked up though it's like i don't know that's ego like they can't admit that they don't know oh my god i had that i had that job i fucking had that at a i was a wbc um title defense and i'm doing completely legal throws in muay thai throws and he's telling me no more slamming her on the canvas he's like he says this ain't no jujitsu no literally the referee says people's yeah you said his name that's voldemort No The referee said this? Cecil Peoples, yeah Cecil Peoples You said his name That's Voldemort Oh my goodness

Tanya Eviger wins Commission appeal Retains Invicta FC champion Wait a minute What is a commission appeal though? What does that mean though? That might be She lost a submission

The other person was a champion for 13 days She lost by submission, and the other person was a champion for 13 days. She lost by submission? Huh. What? Yeah. This was at the end of 2015, 2016? How is it overturned to a no contest? I had that.

So what happened? I Googled your question, and someone found some examples of it happening, and this was one of the three i found huh that's a little different because that seems like there was an error in the officiating and so if if she lost by submission and they said it wasn't it wasn't legit i had a decision overturned did you really it was uh what's his name john big guy the big ref okay what's the name john big john mccarthy john mccarthy john bigga it's a big guy the big john um but i need a downed opponent in the head oh but from where i was i didn't realize that so i need her once and she was like this so i was like

oh man let me make sure this is over with and i need her again but she was like this. And I was like, oh, man, let me make sure this is over with. And I need her again. But she was like 5'11", 6 feet-ish, Jessamyn Duke, super, super long. Yeah. And I didn't realize that she was – her knees were on the canvas. I didn't know Jessamyn Duke fought Muay Thai. No, this was an MMA. Oh. So I knocked her out. But – and then I put one for good measure.

Oh. Unfortunately. Unfortunately. And so he gave me the win, and then she appealed it, and then it got overturned to a no contest. At least not a DQ. Because I didn't realize. Right, right.

That's interesting. Because she would have gone out anyway. Yeah, so I kind of fucked myself. I gave her a leg to stand on. Yeah. Yeah, that was like a hard one to even gave her a leg to stand on. Yeah. Yeah, that was like... What organization was that in? Invicta.

How many fights did you have in Invicta? Oh, three. Three? I think. Is that all the most MMA fights you've had? More than three, right? Four. Four?

I think four. Now, when you talk about coming back now, I know you're recovering from knee injuries and all this jazz what do you think chunkiness chunkiness you look great now yeah it's so much better oh my god is it because of snackamoto no um snackamoto healthy snacks yeah man when you're 40 pounds overweight you smell different do you yeah? Yeah. What do you smell like? Just not yourself. It's not yourself. It's just not. 40 pounds is a lot.

It is a lot. What were you eating? Or not eating or drinking all the time and not working out and like limping because my knee was so fucked up. Yeah.

It was a lot of grief. Yeah. Yeah. But for someone like you it's got to be hard too because you're so connected to like your physical activity oh yeah so to have that removed and taken away from you well that was a remember we're talking about like finding out who you really are who you think you are yeah and like

getting that injuring gaining all that weight i was like oh okay who i think i am i no longer have access to that right so now So now who am I? You know, and I spent the last five years trying to work that shit out. So, yeah. That happens to a lot of fighters when they retire. Yeah. Well, good thing it happened already. Yeah.

What were you thinking while that time was up? Because you've got to feel like also you're 42 now. Yeah. So this is all happening at 37, which is, you know, for some fighters, it's towards the end anyway. Yeah. No, I was doing well at 37. Yeah. I was doing fine.

No, you were doing great. Yeah. But there's a reality of the clock. Yeah, for sure. When you look at, at least historically, everyone outside of Bernard Hopkins. Yeah, he's amazing. Fucking amazing. Holy shit.

46 years old, fighting world class. I mean, I think he beat, did he beat Kelly Pavlik when he was like 46? I think he boxed Kelly Pavlik up when he was 46. Nice. And lost to Joe Smith, I think he was 51 by the time we got knocked out and sent out of the cage, or out of the ring. Love that guy. Yeah, you know, he's amazing. Yeah, yeah.

43 when he fought Pavlik. But he's not, he's like more conservative now. Yes. When he fights. Well, he's done. Yeah. 43. 43 when he fought Pavlik. But he's not only fought, he's like more conservative now. Yes. When he fights. Well, he's done. But yeah. Well, he's just. Recent stuff.

A masterful boxer. Yeah. He just absolutely understands everything about boxing and is not going to put himself in a position where he's going to get fucked up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Until he couldn't help it anymore. Like the Joe Smith fight, it was like, this has got to be the end. That's it. And Kovalev too. It felt like Kovalev was lighting him up. I was like, oh, I don't want to watch this. It hurts when you see somebody so incredible when it's done. Yes.

Because they just, yeah. Yeah. It's like you're so much better than this. Especially when they're an artist. When you see Chuck go out. Like there's something about, when you see Chuck go out on a shield, something about it to me, I don't like seeing it for sure.

I definitely would have liked it if he didn't get knocked out again. But one thing that I would like young fighters to see is that there's consequences to choices in terms of like how you approach these exchanges and how you fight. And I'm of a belief that you should fight the correct way. Don't fight the way that pleases your boss or the crowd.

Fight the way you're supposed to with your skills. And win by knockout when you can. But don't get knocked out because you're trying to win by knockout and doing something that you're overextending yourself and exposing yourself and you're compromising yourself. Like, that's not wise. And I think part of fighting has to be wise. It's exciting enough.

I mean, it's fucking crazy and wild enough. But everybody wants every single second of it to be filled with blood and the crowd cheering. second of it to be filled with blood and the crowd cheering and when they're not i mean how many times have we seen fights where just there's a lull in the action for a brief moment or they're clinching and people start booing and then someone come on mix it up boys mix it up like what do you mean mix it up the fuck you do what do you think they're doing man they're fighting this is crazy talk you know like you see it all the time social brain. There's a little bit of that. Impatient. Everybody wants to be a huge star, too.

Everybody wants to do their best to gain the most followers and get the most love and get the most applause. There's a right way to fight and a wrong way to fight. One of the things about watching a guy like Chuck go out on his shield like that it's like this is the bed he made i mean this is his style his style is marauder berserker move forward like melvin manhoof when you see melvin go out on his shield you go look this is melvin style like he's gonna kill you or get killed yeah yeah that's true but if you see a guy like Sugar Ray Leonard and he gets KO'd, you're like, oh, Jesus. Like, stop. You can't do it anymore.

You're not really, you can't move the way that made you successful. Purnell Whitaker, someone like that. If you see them, for whatever reason, they can't move right. Do you remember Purnell Whitaker? I know the name, but I haven't watched his fights. Damn, woman. That's why I'm just laughing. I'm like, man.

He was a defensive genius olympic gold medalist 76 i'm i'm terrible so people will ask me they will ask me about the y crew raw muy and i'm just like i don't know it's both or they'll ask me how do you win a muay Thai fight? And I go, I don't know. Do more damage. Like, I don't fucking know. What score is higher? Elbow or knee or punch? I don't know. Just fucking win.

Right. Like, I have no idea. Were you ever thinking what score is higher? No. You're thinking you're trying to smash. I'm just thinking I'm going to dominate this motherfucker. This is my space. Yeah.

Like, this is my, you know, yeah. Square circle or whatever. Is that how you think about it? This is mine? Well, yeah, because you dominate the space and, like, it's about territory, you know, and fighting's territory and you start and it's even and they have their side and you have your side and you take the territory away and you want them to feel like it's not their space anymore.

Like, that's how you you impose your will you know what i mean yeah yeah it's that simple i don't know i don't know about fucking points and this and that and it's shit i have no idea do you ever teach uh yeah do you teach private lessons do you teach classes like what do you teach a little bit bit, yeah. Yeah. Do you ever work with fighters? I have, yeah. Yeah. When you do it, do you find that looking at it in a way where you're trying to explain it to someone who's also trying to do what you do, that it helps you understand what you do? Yeah. Yeah.

But I definitely don't. You don't like it? No, no i i still like this conversation is the same like it's it's more about like the tone you're setting rather than the weapons you're using to me because it's it's really just like there's that space and it's your job to own it you know like you own the center of the ring. You dictate where they go. You take things away. You know, it's like a, it's an ex-convict trying to get a job. The door is just shut in their face, shut in their face.

Everywhere they turn, shut in their face, shut in their face. That's an interesting way to look at it. Like that's how you want to make them feel. Like you're a parole officer. I don't want an ex-convict to not be able to get a job. But in the ring, you want to take shit away from somebody and make them feel very discouraged. I don't want an ex-comic to not be able to get a job. Right. I know what you're saying. But in the ring, you want to take shit away from somebody and make them feel very discouraged. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, you don't belong here anymore. And you know that. You know? Like, that's what you want them to feel. Yeah. Yeah. And you don't want to fight me again.

That's another thing you want to make them feel. You know? Like, there's these things. Yeah. You got to understand what you're doing there. that's another thing you want to make them feel you know like this is these things so you gotta understand what you're doing there but insofar as like what score is higher and what did this and i don't fucking know i have no fucking idea it just goes off of like how how my opponent is reacting to what i'm doing to them right how they're reacting to me and that's what i'm gonna

throw or where they move and that's what i'm gonna throw throw or where they move. And that's what I'm going to throw. I don't think about like, oh, is this going to score? Should I throw this or this, which will score higher? Right. You can't. I don't know. It's fucking retarded. Yeah. I think.

Yeah. It's not a wise way to think, I don't think. I think, especially in something like Muay Thai, which so many fights win by knockout, so many fights are won by knockout. Yeah. And it's such a devastating art. You know, we think about just having the ability to kick and knee and punch and elbow and all these different weapons you're using i think muay thai doesn't hurt that much what does that mean what does that

mean i think muay thai doesn't hurt that much so you're talking about earlier about breaking your elbow on someone's head yeah but that didn't hurt at the time. At the time, it didn't hurt. Adrenaline. I don't know. I mean, it just was like, it just, bam. And I'm like, whoa, she's bleeding. It's crazy. And the ref's like pulling me off her.

I don't think about how it felt. I don't think about, you know, like when I got my ribs cracked from a kick in a Muay Thai fight. I thought it was liver. So I was like, I feel my pain. I'm like, no. And then I'm like, fuck you. I'm in the fight. And you pull yourself back out of that pain because you don't want to fall into the pain.

Right. Because it's hard to climb back up. It's like swimming upstream. Right. So you can't fall into that fucking pain. Right. But it's not, I mean, it's banged up, but it's not that bad. Well, you have a tolerance for it.

Yeah. I just like, I mean, your shins will be bruised up. You know, I don't. You put a picture up on Instagram once of your legs. No, that hurt. Yeah. No, that really hurt. What day was that?

That took weeks. After the fight that your legs were that fucked up? No, no, no. That was right before I fought. It was right before you fought? Yeah. So I had three fights and that one was right before the last one oh you had three fights in a day no i had three fights over five days which made it worse actually because if the three fights

had been in one day then jesus christ yeah so they had a day between each and so the pain would set in and the bruising yeah it was ifma was it? Uh-huh. Oh, they're crazy over there. It was cool. I liked it. That's wild, though. But that shit hurt. I'm sure. That shit hurt for weeks.

Like, I couldn't roll over in bed. Like, they couldn't. You know how you stack your legs and you snuggle up in your position? Yeah. Couldn't. I had to put a pillow in between them. Yeah. Oof.

The bruising was behind on the calves. Like, I got kicked in the front yeah right but there's so much blood you know internal bleeding from the bruising it went to the back to my calf so it actually circling encapsulated my whole leg and bruising and then it went down um my ankles both sides and then down to my toes so when you took the pictures that was you in between the second and third fight that was the right before the third fight i was waiting uh it was the king's cup this was the king's birthday yeah yeah so that's that's actually yeah and you can see my ankle and it actually went underneath my toes and this is before you have to fight again

both legs were like that yeah both were like this and you have to fight again yeah that is so do you know wooden man johnston on uh-huh that's him rubbing me and so he tried to give me the tie they give you the pre-fight massage with the tie limit he couldn't fucking touch me it was so bad how the fuck did you fight like this i don't know but i did that is so insane yeah your legs are so banged up the fact that you fought yeah yeah and so like mentally i was just like wow this is this is this is happening this is i'm i'm gonna do this and i'd look at my legs okay okay this is happening this is this is okay yeah yeah no once you started fighting what did you feel i don't think about that like sometimes you get kicked and it goes through.

Like, it gets through your force shield. You know, like, you kind of put up this, like, I don't know. When I fight, it's like I'm fighting and the thing. Yeah, it's a force shield in a sense, you know. And sometimes if it hurts enough, like when I got my ribs cracked, I felt that. Right. Like, it went through. And I, like when I got my ribs cracked, I felt that. Right. Like it went through and I like disrupted my force shield.

And so sometimes that something would go through like a good solid kick. Your force shield. So my force shield. So you have. Force shield activate. Your attitude,

your mindset. Yeah. This is like you're fighting, you're ready to accept all sorts of things. Yeah, like I could die. Or even harder, I could kill someone.

Do you think it'd be harder to kill someone than to die? Harder on you? Yeah. Yeah? Because then you think about their loved ones. So think about all the people that loved you. We fight. Think about all the people that love you, right?

Yeah. And so when we fight, I didn't break any rules, but I killed you. Right. Think about all your loved ones. Everybody that loves you that's attached to you. Think about that. All that pain. It's a lot of pain.

Because of what I did to you. Right. Even though I didn't break any rules. Have you ever been in a promotion where someone died? Mm-mm. But that's heavy, right? Yeah. And I think probably why a lot of fighters, I have noticed, like, there's, I don't think the majority of fighters look at what they do with the gravity that it deserves.

You know, like, you could kill could kill somebody like you need to think about that and be okay with that not okay but just understand like all right that could happen and i'm going to be consciously knowing this and choosing to go forward they just think oh i'm gonna fight it'll be fun it'll you know whatever or it'll be hard. Or I'm going to like, whatever. They don't think about these things. Is this something that you thought about when you were young? Yeah, before I really got into it. So this is something you've been contemplating even before you started fighting.

You were aware of all the possibilities. Yeah. I, okay. All right, I'll say it. So I was, it was about 28, I think. And I don't think I had my pro boxing debut yet. And I took some mushrooms. And I was thinking, somewhere along the trip, I started thinking about fighting. And I started thinking about, like, what could happen to me.

And I started thinking about the death of me. And then I started thinking about what what could happen to me and I think I started thinking about the death of me and then I started thinking about what could happen to my opponent like what's worse than that and I thought about I could see like somebody I fight and I saw all the like like lines of gold thread attached into them like from their loved ones and then all the lines got snipped when they died yeah i saw this on this mushroom trip and i was just like fuck and so then when i decided to fight there's more intent you know and more commitment and more resolve that's heavy yeah yeah but that is what it is right and that's where i think real there's more power to people that have never fought before and people that don't understand fighting they do this i don't

get the appeal i don't know why you watch it that the reason that one of the reasons there's many reasons but one of the reasons why people enjoy participating in it so much is because there's so much risk and it's so dangerous and it's so difficult so unbelievably difficult to prepare unbelievably difficult to put yourself in the proper mind state especially to be a champion to beat the best of the best to get to the top of the heap that once you do succeed like explain that feeling to people. Explain that feeling when they raise your hand and put that belt around your waist and the crowd is cheering.

I'm kind of weird because I actually get depressed. You get depressed? You get depressed when you win? At times, yeah. Or, or I'm just, I think for me, what I've come to realize about myself is that it's about authentically expressing myself in the moment. And I think with a lot of my fights, I wasn't being honest. I didn't take my heart and cut it open and pour it out on the mat or the canvas. I played it safe. I didn't go in for the knockout. I didn't slip a punch encounter and, and get inside. I stayed outside. Or when I was inside, I would clinch up an elbow and knee. So for me, it hurts when I'm being inauthentic. And I know that with pretty much all of my Muay Thai

fights, I wasn't. But is that the case, or is it you being hypercritical of yourself? Always. Always. So I've actually, you just had Kyrian on, and he can attest to this,

I've come out of fights and won the world title, done a great job, and I go into the gym the next week, and I go, Kyrian, this was stupid. I looked stupid. I didn't do this right. This is fucked go into the gym the next week, and I'd go, Karen, this was stupid. I looked stupid. I didn't do this right.

This is fucked up. I can't fight like that again. Like, we've got to fix that. And it was just like that. But that's what makes a champion, though. Yeah. But mine was unhealthy. So mine was more.

I think I'm more of a champion now than I ever was when I was actively fighting. a champion now than I ever was when I was actively fighting. And when I was, um, I, I was trying to be good enough instead of just focusing on, how am I going to say this? My pursuit of world titles wasn't about, it was in defense of something that was told to me when I was growing up. So it's like, I'm a world champion, so you can't tell. That's not true, because I'm a world champion. So that's what that was about for me. So it was about making up for a lack of love a lack of

appreciation or just abuse yeah like i'm not good enough so i'm gonna win this world title and prove that i am good enough so f you and that's not a pure place to express yourself from right you know like now um i'm more of a martial artist than i've ever been and I'm more of a teacher and a student than I've ever been, and I'm more of a champion than I've ever been. How are you more of a champion than you've ever been? It's the way of my outlook and the way I learn, the way I attack new information, the way how malleable I am,

how quickly I take things on, how driven. It's a lot easier to be champion when you have the six-pack and the muscles and the youth and everything to back that up. But when you have those things taken away from you, then what is a champion? What is it without those things? It's your heart. It's your desire. It's your heart. It's your desire.

It's your resolve. It's your mind. But using this expression champion, like why champion? Because if you're a champion, you're competing against someone to become a champion. That's what makes you a champion. I compete against myself.

Right. To do it better, to learn it faster. To do it faster. Yeah. Over the things that you feel held you back and limited your potential when you actually were a world champion kickboxer and so now it's more about self-expression you're more balanced person yeah definitely and now it's the pursuit of self-expression and it's a pursuit of authenticity um and like finding that moment to ride the razor's edge instead of playing it safe and staying outside but not having a satisfying

fight yeah you know even though you won not having satisfying fights because you could feel the flaws yeah well i could just feel how i was holding back right and it's like you can feel when you're in the zone and you go for it 100 commitment and you're just in it you know you're. And it's like, you can feel when you're in the zone and you go for it in 100% commitment and you're just in it. You know, you're in it. It's so authentic. What fights have you had where you really felt satisfied?

I would say the fight after I fought Julie. Yeah, she was, I went up in kitchen. Yeah, I went up in weight to fight her. She, I went up to 140. It. I went up in weight to fight her. She, she, um, I went up to 140. It was a champion of champions.

She had 58 fights, I think 14 world titles. I had 14 fights at the time and six world titles, I think. And, um. That's pretty crazy. 14 fights, six world titles. Yeah. Yeah. I started late.

You know, Kerian said that you were the most talented person he's ever worked with. I would agree. I would. I would. Because, so, what I. That's high praise. What I noticed. Kieran Fitzgibbons.

I mean, that's really, that's amazing stuff. Well, I'm malleable. And I'm really dry. Like, I'm like, no, that's not right. Do it again. That doesn't feel right. Do it again. What are you doing?

What am I doing? What does it look like? What should it feel like? Where's my pressure? Where's the leverage? What's this? You know, like I'm like, I'm like that. You know, no, it's not right.

Let's do it again. Oh, that was perfect. But let's move on to the next thing. And this sort of level of dissatisfaction with your performances though, don't you think that that's ultimately what makes you such a champion in the first place? Alexander Gustafson put it best once when he was talking about one of his training camps.

He's like, this is the life of a professional athlete. You're just never satisfied. If you want to achieve greatness, you're never satisfied. Yeah, no, I agree, but not with the way I was doing it. So you were doing it it but you were doing it in a manic almost unhealthy way yeah

like I could never just give myself that I could never be like alright that was great this needs adjustments alright so here's the game plan you know

like oh here you know you did this this is an accomplishment or you know you conquered this you took on this new skill

alright let's give yourself that credit. Right. It was always, ah, never good enough. Ah, never good enough. Ah, never, never good enough. But is that never good enough fuel? Like, is that thought, like, never good enough, never good enough? No, it's definitely fuel.

It is, right? But it's not healthy. There's much more environmentally friendly fuel. Like, this is, like, pollutants. It's pollutants. And as far as your life goes. Yeah. Yeah.

I know what you mean. Yeah. So I am working with, I am back at CSA working with Kyrian. But I told him, for Muay Thai, I actually told Dave and Kyrian this. Did I tell Kyrian? Well, I guess I'm telling him now. If I were to have a Muay Thai fight, obviously,

I'm not going to, you know, I wouldn't be with anybody else. Like he's, that's where the success has been. That's where the formula works. I'm not going to change that. But now I'm also over

at Gorilla Jiu-Jitsu with Dave Camarillo. Excellent coach. Oh, my God. Genius. Oh, my – fucking Jedi Knight, dude. Yeah. He's a Jedi Knight.

Great guy, too. Holy shit. Yeah, he's amazing. He's amazing. But now I get to learn from him. And so that – Is he making you wear a gi? He's not making me. But I do, do and I would and have no problem with it.

He definitely says, like, I need to go to classes, which I absolutely agree with. You know, as a high-level striker or any kind of striker going into MMA, you need to go to the fucking classes and learn to swim in the deep end. You have to. Just be like, all right, this sucks. I'm just getting, like like fucking armpit suffocated it's fine just deal with it um but uh with dave i can feel myself changing into the fighter that i want to be how often do you do jiu-jitsu um well right now i've been traveling so not as much

but i was doing it like every day. Yeah. And with your knee, I know you have like a limited amount of mobility with one of your knees. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Does that get in the way of anything? It does. I definitely have to like. Do you put a brace on it or anything? No, I just communicate clearly with my training partners.

So funny thing is I love heel hooks and I've had four knee surgeries. Isn't that weird? It's a little weird. They're effective as fuck. That's the only submission I go for. Really? Heel hook, knee bar. Well, listen, it's a very good submission.

I mean, it's revolutionized jujitsu, really, over the last few years. The leg lock game has really taken over. Yeah, you think if somebody had that many surgeries, you'd be like, no, I'm not fucking with that. Well, how about John Donaher? I'm like getting in there. John Donaher has a fake hip. He's got a fake knee.

Oh, wow. Really? His whole body is getting replaced. He's a bionic man. And he's one of the main minds at the head of the leg lock revolution. Eddie Cummings being one of them and then a lot of the students. Gary Tonin, of course. There's so many really good

jujitsu guys now that are leg lock specialists. It's fascinating. Craig Jones is like a whole new crew of up and coming guys that are leg lock specialists. I love it. Yeah, it's really interesting. I love it. It's really interesting because all the years that I did jujitsu, it took this

transition, which only took place within the last decade. really interesting because all the years that i did jujitsu it took like this transition like which only took place within the last decade like less than a decade where it really started ramping up back in the day if you did a jujitsu if you were in a jujitsu tournament and you did a leg lock or a heel hook the crowd would boo they would fucking scream they would scream even if you won by tap like if you went to the worlds and you heel hook somebody people would freak the fuck out that's so dumb it's crazy that's what it used to be it used to be that they thought of it as cheap they thought leg locks and heel hooks and ankle locks they thought those were cheap moves but it's literally part of the body well it what it is is people that didn't understand the defense so they would move the wrong way and get their legs blown apart.

And nobody wants to get their legs blown apart in training. So they would discourage it in training and discourage it in competition because it was ripping people's legs apart. That's retarded. Well, it's just a lack of understanding. Look, your shoulder is a very complex joint. We have zero problem manipulating the shit

out of people's shoulders. It's a weak joint, too. It's a weak joint. It tears apart. Complex and weak. Yeah. yeah yeah and we have no problem with that nobody nobody says we gotta outlaw crying about that yeah yeah somehow or another if you fuck your shoulder up where you can't wipe your ass that's okay but if you fuck your knee up where you can't walk good can you imagine if you can wipe your own ass well not a problem a problem for you Oh, for my super toilet? Yeah

Those toilets are awesome I was going to take a picture of that and post that on Instagram Go ahead, feel free I tell people about them, they're amazing That's awesome They keep it clean And plus it's comfy It's like a warm seat

As soon as I sat down, I was like Oh Nice, right? Oh It's a good life This is the good life Yeah It's weird like

I mean Why is it okay to yank on someone's neck I mean I know so many dudes With fucked up necks It's like All of Jiu Jitsu is bad for your body I have fucking Tingling going down my arm

Right now When I sit in certain positions Oh From like just wrestling and Jiu Jitsu Did you get an MRI Never happened No I guarantee I know what that is it's a pinched nerve

yeah it means you got a bulging disc no that's what it means not all the time though almost always no the tingling yeah the tingling is all the time a nerve is being pushed on by a disc yeah most of the time that's what that is. Until the wheels fall off. Yeah. Well, the wheels... You can understand. I saw that look on your face. But the wheels are not off. Like, you can strengthen things and you can do a lot of... Have you ever fucked around with spinal decompression?

Mm-mm. There's a lot of really cool devices that you could do at home. Just hang? Yeah. You put this harness on that straps to the door and it, like, supports your head. Like, pulls on your neck. Really? And it stretches and relaxes your neck. Yeah, it's this harness on that straps to the door, and it supports your head, pulls on your neck. Really? It stretches and relaxes your neck.

Yeah, it's fantastic. Okay. Really good. Yeah. That'll help a lot. I'm going to sign that. Yeah, sign that, and then after— Spinal decommissioning.

We have pieces of paper. You can write on paper. I won't remember. Okay, I'll text it to you. You've got yoga pants. Really? Yeah. Okay, because I don't remember.

I'll text you all this stuff because I'm a fanatic about helping people with neck injuries because I had a pretty significant bulging disc that was making my hands numb. Yeah. I was really worried. And my elbow was always in pain and I thought maybe I damaged my elbow and it turned out what was going on is the nerve, my disc was pushing against the nerve in my neck and the ulnar nerve, which goes all the way down to your pinky tips my fingers it's like over here right yeah yeah yeah that that was hurting

mine's weird since i broke my elbow on her head i'm sure yeah it's all that inflammation scar tissue and shit yeah yeah yeah but um there's a bunch of different devices too there's a thing called the iron neck that i love to talk to people about too. It's like a halo you put on. It'll help strengthen all this stuff. I need that. Yeah. I'll show it to you after, after, okay.

Is it like Muay Thai? You pull on my, I'm fine. Right. I'm totally fine. But wrestling like this and that it's different. Yeah. And it just head cranks.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even jujitsu is not as bad as wrestling for me. John, John Machado always says, never trust trust your neck just don't trust your neck never think your neck's gonna hold up because some some guys like they'll shoot in for a takedown someone will get them in a guillotine and then just try to gut their way out of it he's like never trust your neck yeah never trust your neck that sucks yeah neck is a weird thing these little bones that are held in place by tendons and this gelatinous mush in between them.

And in between is the fucking cord that communicates from your brain all the way down to all your limbs. That's hella sketchy, man. And we're cranking on that thing. Like this is the housing for the cord that keeps your body moving from your brain. And people are getting you in fucking chokes, crushing your neck. It's crazy. See, now when I do jujitsu,

I'm a whole different mindset. I'm like, don't fucking touch my neck. Yeah, don't touch my neck. Don't fucking. Don't. I'll sneak an elbow in there. Don't touch my fucking neck. Do you put your hair up in buns and shit?

Do the jujitsu hair? Yeah. I try, but it's... Yeah. I want to shave my head.itsu hair yeah I'd try but it's yeah I want to shave my head do you I'd want to you can pull it off

but it's itchy mine's all itchy mine is all itchy when I do it you can pull it off you can shave your head I've done it before you get a crew cut

you'd look a badass bitch with a crew cut you should do it why not why not for a comeback fight look at it fucking it's it's not a bad move i'm already 42 you know i gotta at least keep some kind of thing thing going something feminine yeah okay yeah so i'm getting the lines i gotta at least try to rose nama unis play the game off

i think rose looks just as beautiful If not more beautiful With a shaved head She is You know If she was An actress She looks like An A-list actress

Doesn't she Yeah And she has that presence But she doesn't give a fuck Yeah That's what it is Isn't it Yeah

That's a big part Of what it is She's so interesting She's so present Uh huh Uh huh Uh huh Beautiful

She is She's beautiful But Beautiful person. Yes. Like her heart and her. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. No, she's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they don't, I don't think they appreciate that as much. They don't appreciate it enough. You know, like how gorgeous she is.

Like. Yeah. She doesn't get enough press or attention or. If she had, if she had her hair and she played the game. Yeah. Because she literally looks like a mini supermodel. Right. With little muscles.

Right. Like, yeah. Well, I remember when she fought Michelle Waterson, the Karate Hottie. Everybody was making this big deal out of how hot Michelle Waterson is, who's very beautiful. But so's Rose. Rose is equally gorgeous, if not more. But the look, it's a different type of look. Rose is equally gorgeous, if not more.

But the look, it's a different type of look. Like Michelle Watterson would be like hosting a cable entertainment show, E! News or something, right? And Rose Namajunas would be like the lead in a movie. Right. That's the difference in beauty. She just has this like interesting look to her. She has this kind of like a challenging beauty, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. And it's even her expression yeah where where michelle watterson is there's something much more comfortable about her beauty like she's really exotic she's like thai and white or something right yeah she's gorgeous but she doesn't have something she doesn't have that challenging thing do you know what i mean yeah no i do know know what you mean. Yeah. You can shave your head, dude. You can pull it off. I'm telling you. I would look nowhere near as good as Rose.

Well, that's very nice of you. So what kind of physical conditioning do you do? If you don't do any iron neck stuff, no spinal decompression, what do you do? I was doing a bit of CrossFit and a bit of just fight training. So, yeah. of CrossFit and a bit of just fight training. So I've been out so long that when I started getting back in, like I told you before we started, I went fucking crazy. And that was a bad idea at 41 at the time.

It was last year. And I had a total body breakdown where it hurt to hold my cell phone. I had burning pain in my forearms just holding my cell phone. How long did it take you to get to that spit that spot about four months of hard hard yeah like doing jiu-jitsu so i was over at half gracie in san francisco and i was doing like that's a hard spot sometimes i do fuck around i know kurt osiander yeah whenever i talk to somebody that trained at half so i go oh yeah yeah fucking you swam with the sharks yeah i did i did um but it was how come you don't have kurt on oh definitely

i love that guy he he collects he collects he's just like that in person oh i'm sure he's just like that well we're both friends with bourdain i just never got to meet him okay okay bourdain Okay, okay. Poor Dane was alive. Yeah. I'm sorry about that. He collects medieval weapons. Of course he does. And he'll shoot them. I like how he fucking takes videos where you just see his feet. He takes videos just of his feet and all his toes are all fucked up and taped up. Have you seen his fingers? Yeah, they're a mess.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, those gee guys, man, they just damage the shit out of their fingers. I keep telling Kurt his big toe looks like one of those dildos in the Castro. It looks like a butt plug. Francisco reference. Yes, yes. Dildos in the Castro. Yeah.

Oh, those places. Yeah, those places. It looks like a butt plug. Yeah. It's like that big. It's a fucked up toe. All those old gee guys, their hands just turn into gnarled messes. He looks like. Because they're always trapped. He looks like a mountain troll. Yeah.

A little bit. He looks like a hobgoblin. I love that guy. He's an animal. He's a, what else does he do? Yeah. And he's a great cook. Is he?

Two. Really? And then also, fuck, what does he do? Isn't he in a band? He does a lot of acid. He was in a band. Yeah. And he buys instruments.

He's like, I'm going to learn how to play this. And then he's building additions onto his house. Didn't he start his own school recently? Yes. That whole transition, that was like Game of Thrones. Oh, really? Super. I don't know anything. Which I'm not really i don't know anything which i'm not

i i don't know that much about it i just remember like everybody had little groups and was like who are you with and it's just like i hate that yeah i'm not really used to that in muay thai we don't it's not as i mean there's some of it but not like that that's happening many times there's been many foldings and unfoldings. Are you with me, my brothers? And I'm just like, ah, no, I'm with myself. I'm just a blue belt. I'm just a 12-year-old blue belt over here. I don't really care.

Well, I guess I understand it because a really popular school can be incredibly lucrative. And there's so many schools. That's one of the weird things about California. The people that live in places without a lot of jiu-jitsu, they would go crazy here. They wouldn't know where to go. Within where we are right now, we could drive in three minutes and go to five jiu-jitsu places. I need you to recommend somewhere for me to train while I'm down here. Oh, fuck yeah, 100%.

Yeah, I'll get you a bunch of places. But, I mean, we're in the valley. There's a place in Encino. There's a place over here in Woodland Hills. There's a place in in the valley. There's a place in Encino. There's a place over here in Woodland Hills. There's a place in Canoga Park. There's a place over there. There's a place over here. You can go further out.

That would be weird. I didn't even think about that. Being in an area where there's no jiu-jitsu. Oh, there's places. One of the things when Bourdain was really getting into jiu-jitsu, he was training every day, even on the road. So he would travel. It's easy.

Well, sometimes it's easy. It's hard when you're a celebrity. Well, yeah, yeah. He would send me text messages about shitting out bone fragments because dudes would just be smashing him. Because they wanted to sort of make an example out of some celebrity guy who wants to learn jujitsu. So stupid.

Crushing him. But he would go to like when he was in Bozeman, when he was in Montana, there was learn jujitsu so they're crushing him but you know he would go to like when he was in bozeman when he was in montana there was no jujitsu there so he had to go to like a club i think it was in billings or something like that so he had to travel to where they did this club and it was just a bunch of like enthusiasts that would get together it wasn't even like real teaching that's great you know and he would train with them and play like they have a tv with the video up. That shit works. And they work the move.

If you have a good video and a good athlete, you can learn something from that. Can-do attitude and a little bit of elbow grease. A little bit of that, too. I think there's never been a better time to do that than now with all the YouTube videos. It's really an incredible time.

Even if you're not in a place with a really good jiu-jitsu you can learn but you can definitely find somebody you think you need you really need someone to go no no i hear now go like this and you're like oh there's a little subtle adjustments that someone knows from years and years and years of training it's all about the sensitivity of leverage yeah it's just that sweet spot i mean like in in muay thai the thai clinch it's just that sweet spot. I mean, like in Muay Thai, the Thai clinch, it's just that little difference of when you're putting the elbows into, like right in here, and

pulling into that little hook area. Right behind your head. Right there. I was working, helping some of the MMA guys at Gorilla with their Thai clinch, and one of the wrestlers was grabbing up there. Grabbing the back of your head.

Yeah, and it kind of looks like they're going to make out at a high school dance. I try not to laugh, but it's hard. That's funny. I'm sure they want to laugh at me when I wrestle. You just say it that way. Say it to them. I did. And then they'd realize it.

It's like, don't kiss him, man. Don't kiss him. Maybe later. This is not right now. That is such an underutilized technique. You know, a good plum, someone with a good Muay Thai clinch. I mean, if you haven't felt it before, when someone can really grab, I remember when Anderson Silva fought Rich Franklin,

and Rich Franklin just did not know what to do with it. Because Anderson grabbed a hold of it and just started smashing him with knees. And you realize the fucking clinch, the way he would do it is so locked down. He had such technique. Right. But what's funny to me as a Muay Thai world champion or ex-Muay Thai world champion is that I watch these things

and I go, dude, that's so fucking easy to neutralize. It's literally like you're just going gonna, you know, go like this. Or you just like, it's, you don't have to be in that situation. He didn't know what to do. Yeah. But I mean, to this day, there's still fights that I'll watch in the UFC where I'll see their grappling and I'll just go, Jesus fucking Christ, get your foot. What are you doing?

Get out. This is white belt stuff. This is blue belt stuff. It surprises me when i watch that because i think like you know what do i know i'm like a high level striker but i'm like you don't fucking know this and you're in the ufc you don't fucking know this how do you not fucking know this it's you you're dealing with people that come from all over the world right like when francis ingano fought stipe mio chick for the title, right? Literally didn't, his really recent heavyweight.

I don't ever want to watch that again. Yeah, it was rough to watch. Ever. Yeah. Ever. It's terrible. I don't really like watching heavyweights fight that much. Why is that?

It's a little too slow. It's usually not as technical. That's true, but when they land. Yeah. I know, but I mean, you can get people that are smaller and more technical and faster. And they can land heavy punches too. That's true. Maybe because you're there live so you can feel the ground shake.

Or me, I'm just watching on the TV. So I don't feel it. Did you see when Francis knocked out Alistair Overeem? I think I did. I think you need to see it again. I think you need to see that again. I think you need to see that again. Because this is something that is some life-changing shit. Watch this.

Boom. Watch this. I know. Look at this. But with this left hook. Whomp. But it's crazy that he's so scary and his striking is so dangerous that even Alistair, a guy who's been around forever, he fought so wild and open. His hands were down.

Yeah, where was his head movement? Where was his head movement? I mean, he was moved a little bit in the beginning. The consequences are so scary. Yeah, very little head movement. No head movement. Yeah, very little. No head movement.

Some guys are picking up. Muay Thai, too. Yeah. No, especially Muay Thai. No head movement. Right, a lot of straight center line. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,. No head movement. Some guys are picking up. Muay Thai too. Yeah. No, especially Muay Thai. No head movement. Right, a lot of straight center line. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, when I think guys like Simon Marcus start working with Floyd Mayweather Sr. and then other. When did you start working with him? I don't know. How long has he been with him? I don't know. I don't know.

I just watch videos online. I'm like, I want to see before I have. Can I see one? Simon Marcus, number one. I want to see improvements. I'm sure he's improving, but I don't know. He's still pretty young. I mean, Simon's only like 30.

Simon Marcus, number one on Instagram. I think the real problem with Muay Thai and even with kickboxing is just a lack of promotion and a lack of understanding from the general public. To me, I get very excited whenever a glory event is on. Here he is. Whenever a glory event is on, give me a little. Here it is. It's been an amazing year. It's an honor and pleasure to be able to work with boxing legend Floyd Miller,

a junior. Before I left the gym, he said, kid, you're going to be all right. So it looks good there, you know. But, I mean, you're talking about a guy with just a tremendous amount of understanding of boxing. Did you ever see when he fought Sugar Ray Leonard? He's bending his legs, finally. Simon Marcus. Oh, he's shifting his weight, too.

As opposed to the Muay Thai style. It's hard for him, though. It's not loose and easy. It's like right yeah yeah but he's it's hard for him to rotate yeah isn't it interesting because yeah he's a world champion and he's a devastating striker and he's fucked a lot of people up but the limitations of the style that he imposes and the way the way he does it when he's trying to learn a different, more smooth way of doing things.

You see the stiffness. So in the boxing, they generate that power from the feet and the rotating and the, you know what I mean? Kind of like a gas pedal

and a brake. Right. They're like, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh. And Muay Thai, it's not like that. When they punch, they're like,

mm, mm, uh, uh. When you say it, explain it for people just listening because that's probably half the crowd. Sorry. They're like, what the fuck is this bitch doing? So, like, for instance, the rear foot would be the gas and then the front foot would be the brake. So you hit the gas and you're going to go into the sprint. But as soon as you start getting the velocity for the sprint, you bam, put the brake down.

And then with that counter, the contradiction, the opposing forces, it erupts out the top from your arms and your fists into a powerful punch. And I think with Muay Thai, they just like step forward instead of rotating from their torso, from their feet and their torso. Is there a benefit to that or does it compliment the style of kicking? Probably more complimenting the style of kicking. But I think that if you move your, if you allow for rotation in your punches,

you allow for the rotation in your feet, you allow for the rotation in your feet so you can generate more power in your punches, you can still then take the necessary step out at an angle and then stepping high with your feet and get a great kick too. Like, you can have both. Who do you think does it the best? Who do you think combines the two things the best?

Oh, I love Petrosian. Petrosian's one of the best ever. Fucking love that guy. So technical. He's amazing. That was what we were going to watch. Petrosian versus Andy Sauer. Yeah.

And Masato's face. Yeah. This is like, fuck. So good. I think it's about time. It's like. Get the fuck out of this sport. What the fuck?

Yeah. That was so good. Well, Petrosian still is at the top of the game. Is he? How many years has it been? It's been a bunch. Ten? I mean, he lost to Andy Ristie, right?

Was it Andy Ristie that KO'd him? What? That's another thing. Okay, now I will. I don't want to deal with paper, but I need to see this. Pull up Giorgio Petrosian's Instagram. Ristie? Is this where he got KO'd or is this the sour

fight this is the sour fight this is the sour fight he was so young here mate wow it might not be in risty see you can't google it while you're doing this can you i got yeah that's all right well we'll get to that afterwards but yeah oh and so sour had this cut under his eye yeah and then it kind of goes like bleeding a little bit and then in his eye and this is assumptive on my part but in his eyes when you look at him like talk interacting with the doctor it looks like oh yeah yeah it's bad yeah yeah you know what i mean like what you'll it's further down in the fight but well giorgio is so technical and one of the more interesting things to me with giorgio is watching him train because a lot of it is drilling.

I mean, they do so much drilling. Well, that makes sense because then you can get out of the way. Yeah. Well, he knows exactly what to do. His brain and his mind are in sync with what to do in the middle of a furious battle so that he doesn't have to think too much. So see, that Masato's excited. He's like, excited. This is exciting.

What's going to happen? Not towards the end. Uh-uh. Look at those fucking horses yeah yeah once it's awesome yeah k1's fucking amazing i just i just wish that kickboxing got more press and more excitement in america because i think it's more exciting than boxing yeah there's more to look at. And you're seeing with American champions, you're seeing fantastic knockouts. You're seeing amazing wins. The only one who's really doing

all the sports at a high level is Gaston. Gaston Balaos. Look at his face now. He's like, wait a minute. This is after the first round. He's like, oh shit. Does this go to the distance

Um Yeah I think it did Yeah Get into like The end rounds When Petrosian really starts Tuning him up Yeah

He's so interesting Because he would just sort of Find out where your openings were Uh huh Where the rhythm was Uh huh Where to move And where not to move

And where you're making mistakes Like a computer Yeah And you'd just see him Plug in the techniques to fill those holes. And you'd see like the little subtle steps and, you know. He always knows what you're going to throw next or where you're going to be or what you're going to do, you know.

Yeah. He's so amazing. Oh, there's the cut. He's one of the best ever for sure. Yeah. And just an interesting guy to watch. He doesn't look like he's doing much. Right.

Like, look at that. That was, he barely moved. Right, doesn't look like he's doing much different. Like, Sauer's like in and out, bouncing. But Petrosian's just right there. He's barely moving. Look at that. Just moving just enough.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Somebody KO'd him in glory. And like I said, I think it's Andy Ristie. Yes. Pull up. I need to see that. Giorgio Petrosian's record. I'm like, what?

Yeah. It was really shocking. And it was in the big Madison Square Garden debut. They were in the theater. Oh, Ristie's black, right? Madison Square Garden. Yeah. It's like lanky.

Mm-hmm. Power Striker. Did I see this? I think it was Ristie. I might have seen this. Is it Ristie? Yeah, it was. He hits fucking hard. And he caught Giorgio, and boom, the lights went out.

Yeah, first round, too. What? Yeah. It was crazy. And again, this was like Glory had seriously hyped up the fact that Giorgio Petrosian's one of the best ever, an undefeated, fantastic record, and Andy Ristie. Maybe it was the beard. I don't think it was. I think he just got clipped.

And maybe it was also a lot of pressure, right? You know, fighting in Madison Square Garden, fighting in glory, glory putting all this stuff behind him. And, you know, the thing is, too, nobody ever knows what the fuck is going on with a fighter when they're coming into a fight, right? You could be dealing with injuries, sickness, training camp, bad weight cut, girlfriend. I was talking to a friend of mine,

and they were talking about how they were dealing with their coach, drug use. Their coach had a drug problem? And they weren't there for them for the fight. And so they went into world title defense like that. I should say it wasn't the first round. I was wrong because it looks like here we are in the second or third. This is the third? This is the third.

So it was in the third round. My memory's not that good. See? This guy just made a brawl. Yes. He just made it ugly. He's like, no respect. He also fucking hit super hard, man.

That's part of the problem. It's surprising because Petrosian usually doesn't get entangled like this. He's really good at keeping. Can we see that again? They'll play it again. He's really good at, damn. Left hand. Keeping space, yeah?

Yeah. He's really good at maintaining a good range for himself, but he's getting all entangled up here. Yeah, I wonder what he thinks about this fight. I would love to hear it. I would love to hear what was wrong, what leading up to this fight. Get him on your show.

Speaks Italian. Get a translator. Oh, fuck. I've done that before with Yoel Romero. Joey Diaz, translate for Yoel Romero. Have you seen that meme of him? Like it or not, this is a 40-year-old not on steroids, jammed full of Jesus.

Yeah. Like it or not. He's standing there like this. It's amazing. He's a genetic freak. But he was on the podcast he was talking about. He's like, go to Cuba. He goes, everybody looks like me.

He's like, there's fucking jeans down there, but it kind of makes sense. You know, I mean, the slave trade led to all these like, breeding. And not just that, but also high level athletic pursuits,

right? Because they're just, they put so much emphasis on athletes and so much emphasis on, you know, they probably have athletes, fuck other athletes, you know?

I mean, if you get Serena Williams and LeBron James to have a kid, what are the odds that kid's not a bad motherfucker? It's 0%, right? That kid would be a beast, right? He'd be a super athlete. They should sell their egg or their sperm.

Oh, sell everything. Sell it all. Put it together. Combine it. Mix it up. I'd love to see that. Can you imagine if two super athletes just decided like hey baby i got an idea yeah let's just find out we can get along yeah let's just make a kid or like not even

not even like uh you know hey baby just like hey you want to just do a thing like just do an experiment not fuck it up yeah that's the thing but then like a business contract yes but here's the thing and this i want to talk to you about because i know you had a rough childhood the reality is a certain amount of fucking you up gives you a certain amount of fuel that allows you to accomplish things that a person with a cushy life and always had a warm bed and always had plenty of love they there's like a you have a for sure right for sure yeah you have a gear that someone who lived a wonderful life with perfect environment and perfect upbringing probably doesn't have it's more like like okay i'll do it alone yeah like oh okay right but it's also the the need to do it alone

the need to prove people the need to show people yeah you know yeah yeah for sure everybody i know that's interesting had a fucked up childhood really yep i don't know anybody that didn't you too yeah really sure huh yeah haven't talked to my dad since i was seven he's alive he's got the same name so cuddly and not bitter well i'm a nice person and I have a lot of nice friends. Yeah. But I've cultivated this. Yeah. This is something that I've actively cultivated for decades. I've worked really hard to be a nice person.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I know the benefit of being a nice person, like how it makes me feel and how it makes other people feel. And I know that that spreads and it makes other people nicer. And I try. I work on it hard to Keep the wolf in a cage. Always. Let it out sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes.

I remember one time when you and I were at a Muay Thai event together. You were there and I ran into you there. And it's funny watching fights with you. Because you were like gritting your teeth. And then you looked over at me. You go, don't you want to just fuck somebody up? Don't you want to just smash somebody's fucking face? I'm like, Dana Miriam, I got to get the fuck away from you.

When was this? It was a long time ago in L.A. Remember L.A. had that pro Muay Thai thing where who fought? Bukow fought. It was a good event. Oh, my God. So you know what that was? It was Muay Thai League.

Yes. So you know what it was? What? I had an ACL surgery. Right. And I couldn't fight. That's right. And I was supposed to fight.

Right. I was seething. Yes, you were seething. I was fucking seething and i was watching these fights and they were fucking garbage yes and i couldn't fight yeah yeah that was 2000 oh i remember that yeah god damn it yeah yeah yeah i was like oh i would beat these bitches i really wish that event took off because that was fun it was great great having that in L.A. Ernesto Hoos was doing the commentary as well. And, yeah.

Didn't Valentina fight in that? I think she did. I would have been very curious to see how Valentina versus Julie Kitchen would have turned out. Mm, yeah. That would be interesting. I'm really curious to see How she does In the UFC At 125 pounds She's a beast

Because She's gonna be strong At that weight That's her weight She's not a 135 Right Do you see how like She looks like

Fighter fit Like lean and cut And ripped Like even her legs When she was 135 Her legs looked soft You know And she's still winning

Yeah Yeah yeah yeah She dropped Holly Holm Yeah That's crazy I mean she's holly home's like a 145 or probably you know like well she's comfortably comfortably be at 145 it's not like oh they're going at 135 or going up to 145 she's like a big ass 135 or and she went the

distance with cyborg yeah at 145 which is a fucking that's a statement in and of itself yeah yeah well it's a boxer yeah So they're used to getting hit It's different Yeah Yeah You know Yeah and I think she got fucked In the title fight

When she fought Durandamy Oh yeah I think she should have won that fight For sure We really do And the cheap shot The cheap shot

Two cheap shots Two of them after the bell One of them that significantly hurt her And I think points should have been taken away For sure Yep yep yep Yeah It's a crazy sport holly holmes amazing she is because a as a person i've never met her but she's the sweetest person ever she seems really sweet and she just seems like i was listening to her interviews you know it's just man she seems just like a really uplifted, genuine person.

A super humble. She really is, which is one of the weirder moments. Why it was such a weird moment, rather, when Ronda Rousey at the weigh-ins was like, you fucking bitch. You're a fucking fake. And it was weird. It was almost like she wanted her to be the enemy so that she could get amped up to kick her ass so she was saying a bunch of things that didn't even make sense maybe ronda was kind of at a breaking point too just as far as

like workload stress level um expectations you know um obligations and when i saw that way in actually i i've watched that probably at least five times. I just replayed it because I like to watch people interact and how they react. I love it. Yeah. And I noticed when I saw that,

I'm like, oh, Holly's got this. And I wish I'd fucking bet money. I totally wish I did. But I was watching and I was like, oh. Did you just stop because Rhonda seemed so emotional? and bet money. I totally wish I did. But I was watching and I was like, oh. Just thought because Rhonda seemed so emotional. It was the way Holly reacted.

That's why. She's just like, Rhonda came in her space, Holly just like stepped back, like kept proper distance, you know, like defensive distance.

Super, super low key. Watch her reaction. Yeah, she stayed calm for sure. Yeah. That's skinny Rhonda too. That's weigh-in Rhonda, which is like she's depleted. Yeah.

Yeah, she was kind of. She was depleted. Look how much difference she looked when she was weighing in. But they. They tied up and Holly didn't give any ground either she's just like she stayed calm she she backed up but like she backed up like i'm ready to hit you backed up she didn't back up like uh and then so ronda was super like emotional too she was funny she was like i was just trying to get a drink. Yeah. I just thought I was having a drink.

I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. It was great. And then Rhonda was like, I don't remember. She was super, right? And you never saw her like that. You're like, what the fuck?

Yeah. Yeah. I think you nailed it as far as the breaking point. Yeah. She got sucked into all the Hollywood bullshit. They were putting her in movies and TV shows and she was on different talk shows. What is the hype to like, oh, could she beat Cain Velasquez? Could she?

You know, and it's like, oh my God, look what she's doing to these women. Could she? Remember that? Right. Yeah. It was like, wow. They created like a huge. Well, she was a superstar.

You know, look, I was a part of it. She still is. I mean, she is now. Yeah. She's still a superstar. Now she's a WWE superstar. It's just a different kind of superstar. She should a superstar. You know, look, I was a part of it. She still is. I mean, she is now. Yeah, she's still a superstar. Now she's a WWE superstar. It's just a different kind of superstar. She should come back.

You think she should? Yeah. What makes you say that? Like, don't go out like that. This is Miriam talking, though. It's a different person. I don't know. She just...

She deserves better Than to go out the way You know her last fight Well She deserves Exactly what she got She's No no

This is what I think She's better than that Is what I'm saying I think you're right That she's better than that I'm not saying Oh it's bad that she got Punched like that

No no no no I'm saying she She deserves better than that to represent herself better. To cement her legacy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think that matters to her as much as it matters to other folks. I think she really cemented her legacy as one of the greatest women's MMA champions ever and a pioneer. But I also think that women's MMA has evolved so fast that within the brief time that

she was running shit the sport passed her by and when you see the one that i was always worried about with her was amanda because i was like amanda nunez has a black belt in brazilian jiu-jitsu and nasty hands like to me judo too right um i think she has some judo i don't know what her ranking is she's not belted in judo i don't know she could be okay um but i think she has some judo i don't know what her ranking she's not belted in judo i don't know she could be okay um but i know she's a black belt in jujitsu and i know she had heavy hands and my thought was that ronda although she was developing good striking skills she's known for her judo and her arm bars that's her big thing and the striking skills were sort of like something that was happening along the way and she was starting to catch girls but she was catching girls like betch cohea and you know and alexis davis yeah but and and beating them down when she

gets them down they're not nearly on the level of an amanda nunez like you're not going to catch her like that or holly holm right exactly and my thought was that if if it was going to go down it was going to be amanda because amanda to be Amanda because Amanda just hit so fucking hard. And then so when she came back and immediately fought for the world title against Amanda. She needed a gimme. Fuck yeah. She needed, well, she needed a different camp. And I think that's fair.

She needed a lot. She needed a revamping of her approach. She needed a lot of things. Yeah. She needed a lot of things because people knew, first of all, she never shoots for doubles. She's not taking you down with a lower body attack. It's always upper body. And it's always a clinch. And she clinches with her left arm.

I mean, Greg Jackson and Jackson Winklejohn, they all figured that out. And Holly had the solution for that. Yeah. Yeah. You know? And also, there's another thing is when you get fucking head kicked into oblivion that way, like, you need a lot of time off. A lot of time with no sparring no nothing especially just being so high like being so untouchable and high and then getting coming crashing down to earth like that

it's a rough that's definitely like a big who am i moment i think i'm sure yeah well like because there's a whole world too right but you were talking about you trying to figure out who you are when you couldn't train anymore. And I had that on such a small scale. A private scale. Private. Large personally, but private. Yeah. And hers is the world.

Yes. The whole world. And mine was more tragic, and hers was more humiliating humiliating you know how was yours more tragic um it happened in the third round of a fight uh world title fight mma um it wasn't a clear like it happened on a takedown it wasn't a takedown that twerked or tweaked my knee or grabbed on my knee or it was um i pushed against them while my body was like this um parallel to the ground and uh i tore my own acl yeah so it was like why is that more tragic um because it was more like no no no no no no no no um i think it's more humiliating to get knocked out in my opinion

to get knocked out sure than it is to get like injured out like like tear tear out like still fighting and then you step back and you everything slips and you fall right because your knee can't it's gone yeah you know that's what I mean when I say tragic. Oh, I see what you're saying. Or if you're, like, winning the fight, and then... Unfortunate. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, so it's more... Unfortunate, and then your identity's stripped away. But, again, yours is private, hers is public. But at least you understand what it's like to not be that person who you... You counted on you being that person as part of your shield that you put on to go through the day yeah for sure for sure yeah you know yeah yeah her persona um she's damn good at it too and then it's like stripped away well she was the first well gina carana was the first? That people sort of identified with.

Like, wow, here's this pretty girl who kicks ass. And this is crazy. We've never seen this before. But it was at a smaller scale. People just didn't, they didn't kind of understand who she was or what she was. I mean, it wasn't as big yet, too. It wasn't nearly as big. It was tiny in comparison. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But then when Ronda came along, it was like this perfect storm. It was like the UFC was huge. Everything was taking off. And then here's this girl who's just fucking everybody up. Hers was much more violent to me than Gina's. Like, you're getting slammed. Right. And just like, you know what I mean?

And your arm broke. Yeah, basically. Like, gruesome. Yeah. Super gruesome. When she fought Misha and cranked her arm. Yeah, and Misha was amazing. She wouldn't even tap. Fuck, man. Snapped cranked her arm all fucked up. Yeah, and Misha was amazing. She wouldn't even tap.

Not tapping the fuck, man. Snapped her arm in half. God damn. Yeah, and she's still not tapping. It's like tearing the chicken. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, Misha's a badass for that one. Now, during all this time, I mean, this is when Ronda's taking off and when Holly's taking off and Amanda Nunes is taking off, all this time is when you're at your peak. You're at your peak as a fighter and then you're dealing with all these fucking injuries and you're working your way to get into this circus. I mean, you're working your way to step into this arena. I mean, this is like ultimately this was your goal.

Yeah. What the fuck is that like to be just sitting down there dealing with all this watching everybody else do it yeah that was maddening well i think about the time that i was sitting next to you watching those fights yeah i was like do you want to smash them over yeah yeah yeah make me nervous it was worse actually so that time I only blew up to 165. This time I blew up to 186. Damn. Yeah, it was big.

Well, you were drinking. That's almost 190. That's almost 190. Yeah. That's almost 200. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I was drinking and it was an eating ride and it was, yeah, just a bunch of stuff.

So how'd you turn it around? Ultimately, I think, so I taught Rocksteady Boxing. Rocksteady Boxing is a program for people with Parkinson's disease and it teaches them how to box and that helps them

with their symptoms and their quality. It improves their quality of life and gives them a sense of, gives them a community to be in. And the interesting about Rocksteady Boxing was I thought I was going to be, it was a terrible fit. And I was terrified that I was going to hurt them. And it actually was the best fit. And they loved being in my classes. And I loved teaching them. And, like, honestly and i love teaching them and like honestly they healed my heart like they healed that not good enough that i felt wow yeah it was pretty crazy so that's

what so teaching and helping people yeah what brought it around for you yeah and like seeing understanding that you can definitely understand like my body is doing this and i seeing, understanding that, you can definitely understand like my body is doing this and I want to do that and I can't do anything about it. You know, and that frustration and it's infuriating and I'm like watching them go through what they go through. And it's just incredible. And they just show up and they just work so hard and they're just fighting.

It's great. Little grandmas and grandpas just fighting. It's great. Little grandmas and grandpas. Wow. Yeah. Did you see the Rock City video? No. The Uber?

The Uber? Yeah, the Uber did a mini documentary on me. Oh, no. No, I've never seen it. Yeah. How long is the mini documentary? Can we watch it? 10 minutes. No, we'll get kicked off the internet if we pull it off.

Yeah. We put it on YouTube. People always claim it. We got our videos taken down, unfortunately. Oh. But I'll watch it afterwards and I'll tweet it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll put it up.

That's fucking awesome, though. It's like cute. It'll make you... It might make you tear up a little bit. I tear up easy. Me too. I'm a crier. It's not just like sad.

I'm happy I'll cry. Actually, after you asked me to be on this podcast, I was having moments of like kind of crying all ever since. Really? Yeah, I was just like, holy shit. So for me, coming back to fighting, Kurian was like, we were talking about a game plan about coming back. And he's like, okay, so this is what I think. I think i think you know getting the right fight like getting a muay thai fight maybe wbc diamond

belt and that is like all i wanted when i was active fighting five years that's all i fucking wanted like it broke my heart hurt my heart that they wouldn't sanction that for women it was so frustrating to me and he's talking about that and he's like yeah we'll get this fight and then that'll be your way to come back and i'm like i don't give a fuck i don't want another world title i have enough like how much fucking good enough do i need to be i'm done like i just want to be paid like just fuck you pay me that's all i want okay and so when i you say that but once you start preparing no i'm still gonna do it was fucking best of my ability yeah but i'm not like i would take a fight that's fifteen hundred dollars three thousand dollars for a world title like to get a chance to fight for that world title like now i'm like hell no

no i will take a non-world title fight that pays more over a world title opportunity well are you looking to compete now in mma are you looking to compete in muay thai are you looking to compete now in mma are you looking to compete in muay thai are you looking to compete in kickboxing i'm looking to compete in whatever pays me you're in cha-ching yeah yeah you're in yeah so dollar mode when you asked me to be on this podcast and i was like holy shit so this in turn would get my followers up which in turn would make it so i could get paid more the next time i fight do you see that i see what you're saying yeah and i was just like oh my god this is so like thank you so much and i was just like you know i was just feeling like my eyes welling up with tears and i felt a little nervous i was like oh my god there's like how many subscribers on this

shit oh jesus can't pay attention to that well i was like you seem like you're doing a good job of not paying attention to it. I'm microdosing today. No. But what I said to myself, because I did feel very nervous, and I do still, but what I said to myself was like, well, it wouldn't be happening if you weren't ready. So this didn't happen before when you were active fighting, you're winning all these world titles, like you weren't ready. So you're ready now. Well, that's a good attitude.

Yeah. But I would have had John back then too. I wasn't ready. So you're ready now. Well, that's a good attitude. Yeah. But I would have had John back then too. I wasn't ready. I'm sure you would have been fine. No, no, I wasn't ready.

Really? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Cause I think I didn't know myself the way I know myself now. I didn't trust myself. I didn't have everything taken, all my strength taken away from me. Right.

And then come out of it. Yeah. I mean, like, one of the things that the Rocksteady boxing got me back and, like, helped heal my heart. But also the other thing was, like, I kept trying to train. I kept trying to get better. I kept trying to, you know, lose weight. But my knee was still fucking with me and I'd get inflammation and this and that. And so finally I just said, you know what?

I think Dominic Cruz did this, too, where he's just like, maybe I don't get to fight again. Like maybe that that's just what it is. And I, I'm not crying. You're crying. It's okay. I just,

you can cry. Okay. I've cried on this podcast before. I made peace with that. And then things started getting better. I don't know why or how, but somehow fixating it wouldn't let me move forward. It just kept holding on to it. When it wasn't working, I just said, said okay then i don't get to fight again

all right let it go and that's when it came back to me so i don't know do you think that i think well i think that for the average person that's watching this and doesn't understand this fixation on fighting i think it comes back to what we were talking about before that it's so difficult and and so rewarding and so impossible and you're you're finding out about yourself during this struggle and then it is my therapy yeah it doesn't like so i used to do a lot of drugs like i used to do math where I weighed 126 pounds I'm 5'9 that's not normal for me and I did so much partying so much drugs so much like self-abuse and then I started training and I used to smoke a pack of marble reds a day you know I would go on benders and stay up like four or five days in a row you know and uh I started training muay thai and that's when i stopped like it wasn't immediate

it wasn't like quick cold turkey you know i just like over time as i moved towards the goal of fighting and it took me i think five years before i fought so i started training muay thai it took me five fucking years and um i stopped doing drugs. I stopped partying. I stopped smoking. I stopped, you know, I started having a more disciplined, regimented lifestyle. And it was just through fighting. Some people get sober through working the steps. Training was my steps. Training was my way of getting to know myself and getting to sift through what wasn't me and what was me. I was told a lot of things that I was when I was a kid. And I come to find out I wasn't those things.

I'm hardworking. I'm disciplined. I'm intelligent. I'm all these other things that I was never told I was. And it was all through fighting. So, yeah. Well, fighting gave you a venue. It gave you a...

Well, then training. Yes. But I think fighting made me... No, because if only I'd trained, I wouldn't have gone as deep as I needed to go to get to the shit. Right. That fucking like, you know, the hard crust layer that you got to fucking dig under and like get in there and sort of through that stuff. Yeah.

You would have polished yourself up a little bit. Yeah, but it wouldn't have... Healed you. little bit yeah but it wouldn't it wouldn't have healed you changed my makeup or even allowed me to be who i am you know yeah like right now it's kind of a trip like i feel like i'm in bloom i'm just learning faster than i ever have it's easy and uh like like Dave was tripping out on me because he was watching me train or watching stuff I was doing. And it's so much easier to do the things without bullshit in the way. Bullshit in your brain.

Yeah. Yeah. Bullshit in my brain, my emotions, my like these limiting beliefs about myself. It's so much easier. And that, or, or to finally be able to be in a space where i'm like okay you're doing this what am i doing okay i'm not matching what you're doing or what are you feeling what am i feeling where i think a lot of

people when they first start out they just do what they're told instead of questioning the concept, questioning the, you know. So it's just, I think the more mature I get, the easier, the more I know myself, so the easier it is to get the information that I need to master the thing. But this is always the big race. The big race is to achieve maturity before your body does yeah before your body wear and tear on this body well on everyone's i mean especially anybody in combat sports combat sports at 42 yeah and to be able to achieve enough mental maturity while your body is still pliable and and and viable it still works and you can still execute you still have vitality isn't demetrius johnson amazing fucking amazing he's so amazing yeah and and i'm not even thinking about all the incredible things he does within

a fight i'm thinking about his post-fight interview Oh he's fantastic He's amazing Yeah no he's He's an awesome dude He's so just like Right there Yeah Isn't he? Yeah He's like no this is what I do

And this is what's gonna happen And we planned for this And da da da da And that's it Yeah Super matter of fact Well his coach Matt Hume Is one of the greats

Absolutely I'd love to meet that guy I'd just love to watch Fantastic That training happen You know Yeah Just like get

To get to be able to pick up On the energy and the magic in the room. Well, I like the fact that he's now going to 1FC. And 1FC is going to pay him a fuckload of money. That's awesome. And the UFC is in this weird state where the reality financially about the flyweight division is it's just not a big sell. It's not like people are dying to watch 125 pound dudes fight people don't like tiny men that's weird yeah see for me someone's gonna take that as a quote take that out of context yeah probably it's gonna be a picture of you

standing jacked in a six-pack with belts on people don't like tiny men like tiny men like their other man bits or something yes that's also a thing that people don't like tiny men. Like tiny men, like they're other man bits or something fucking weird. Yes, that too. I don't know. That's also a thing that people don't like. But the thing is like, see, like I said, I don't like watching heavyweights fight. Right. I like watching the smaller weights fight because usually they're more technical.

Well, he's as technical as there's ever been. And he moves seamlessly. This is what I was talking about, being able to be authentic, express yourself from moment to moment, you know, and not have to like play it safe and stay back and stay outside and away. And yeah, he's just in there and he flows. He also does what we talked about earlier where I said that I don't think you should ever fight stupid, that you should fight within the best so you can express your abilities and your techniques the best. And that's what he does. He has a situational condom. Yeah.

On every, you know what I mean? Even though he's being offensive, he still has protection. Right, right. It's a situational condom. Situational condom. It's a funny way of putting it. Yeah. Yeah.

That is true. Yeah. Is, what are you leaning towards? I mean, I know you're saying saying like what if you get an equal offer an equal offer in muay thai an equal offer in mma what would you lean towards i would want to do mma but muay thai would be yeah man muay thai has never fucking loved me back whoa never some serious shit right there that's it man i'm telling you loved No one loved you back. Yeah, no. That's some deep childhood shit right there, Miriam. Well, yeah.

Miriam? World champion childhood. It's like my baby beginnings as a champion. So do you also, first of all, you have a massive advantage in stand-up over most girls in MMA. That's also got to be a- Yeah, but it doesn't matter if I don't make the adjustment. Of course. You know?

Of course. So I can't think that, like, oh, I'm better. Right. Because, like, oftentimes with a lot of MMA fighters, and Cesar Gracie said this to me, he's like, in MMA, the girls, they're like pit bulls. Like, they don't have the technique, but they get by on the toughness. So, like, with a pit bull, you have to kill it. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of that, for sure. And that will definitely fluster the fuck out of a high-level striker. I mean, look at the Petrosian and Ristie. Andy Ristie. Ristie, look at that. Yeah. Well, Andy Ristie's Ristie, look at that. Yeah.

Andy Ristie's pretty high level too, though. But I've never seen Petrosian. Not that I've watched all of Petrosian's fights, but I've never seen him get entangled like that that often. True. That is not, and Ristie just made it ugly. Yeah. He made it a brawl.

You should watch the whole fight. It's an interesting fight. But who knows? Like I said, who knows where he was at, what was going on in his head, injuries, sickness. Who knows what happened. That beard? Yeah, the beard. Yeah.

I don't know. Cowboy Cerrone looked as good as he's ever looked in his last fight. Yeah, but that's Cerrone. That's not Petrosian. Petrosian's like sexy. He's got the sexy stand-up. Wait, you're trying to tell me Donald Cerrone's not sexy? Not like the way Petrosian is.

Like everything Petrosian is like pretty. The things he does, the way he fights, it's pretty. Oh, I see what you're saying. It's like part, he's sexy. He's like Petrosian. He's Italian. Okay. Yeah.

Giorgio. Come on. Okay. Giorgio. Yeah. See what I mean? He shouldn't have that fucking beard. Donald.

Fucked him up. Made him less aerodynamic. Okay. I don't know about that. I'm a big believer in beard power. So my dad had a beard growing up, and now I see all these 30-year-olds, 20-year-olds, hipsters with their beard oil in their beards, and I'm just like, it's so gross. I have a real problem with beards with men that look like they would break real easy.

You know? I can't stand men with skinny necks. Yeah, that's an uncomfortable thing, right? And like buff dudes with skinny necks. That means they're not doing anything. Because I'm just like, that shit's not real. Right. Yeah, you bench press them, you'll get fucked up.

You'll get fucked up. Yeah, that shit's not real. Somebody grabs your neck. You can't fight. Your head's barely hanging on there. I just tear it off like a chicken. It's true. Like in the third world country

where they just like that and rip the head off the chicken well it shows a severe lack of core strength because like if you're doing like deadlifts and if you're doing anything with your traps you're gonna develop a thick neck if you're doing anything where you gotta hoist things up off the ground give a look at those motherfuckers in the olympics that do deadlifts they have giant ass necks. They're not grappling anybody. They have huge necks.

Okay. Yeah, because they're doing this all the time. Oh, okay. That's all fucking neck and back and the whole spinal column has to be strong.

You look scary, man. It's guys that are doing this shit. Yeah. And then they're posing. Yeah. They're posing.

What are you showing me? Oh, man, look at the skinny neck. Has the modern male come? Yeah, he's got no posing. They're posing. Wait a second. Oh, man, look at the skinny neck. Has the modern male become... Yeah, he's got no neck. Look how skinny his neck is. Look at that. That's preposterous.

That is a preposterous neck. Yeah. I feel like if you head kicked him, he might die, right? His head's not going to stay attached. He just snapped that shit down. Yeah. Look at Tyson's neck. Look at that.

Yeah. Jesus Christ. He's like a pit bull isn't he that was the dark days right before that was the court but when they were uh putting him in jail for rape yeah did he do it what does that article say if you have a no i don't i don't believe he did i might be wrong but that girl um she falsely accused someone of rape earlier yeah if you have a thin neck, you're most likely a beta male. How about take out most likely? What? How about just you are?

You are a beta male. Who's out there running shit with a thin neck? You can't be running shit with a thin neck. How could you be running shit with a thin neck? Your mom's house got this guy. Oh, that neck guy?

Damn long neck. What do you mean? He's got the longest. Who's this guy? Super skinny kid. Oh, I have seen that guy. Yeah. I thought you were going to bring up that guy who's been in the internet memes.

The dude who's now fighting MMA. Black guy whose neck starts at the top of his head and goes straight down here. Is that real? He's got the craziest neck ever. He's got a weird neck. Oh, I thought it was just like distorted. No. Oh, that's real.

No, there's a bunch of pictures of this cat. I've been seeing that. Yeah. And I was just like, oh, they just did the thing and made it. They didn't do the thing. Dude has a nutty neck. You know how some girls have giant tits? This guy's just a crazy neck.

Yeah, I mean, some people just have huge hands. He's going to start fighting MMA. Where's he from? I don't know. Probably Florida. Wait, what did he do? I bet he's from Florida. Look at him.

Look at his neck. He got arrested again? What does it say? Yeah. When did he get arrested? Well, how's he? Look at his neck. Well, someone's going to teach him.

But what is going on with that neck? That's his real neck. That is fucking crazy. That's like he's got a double neck. Maybe he just has a small jaw. No, that is a big neck. What do his parents look like? I bet they have giant necks, too.

A mom or a dad? Mom. Mom's a thick, old dog-looking lady. First police smoke shot showed off his really big neck. This time, he's not smiling. So it's the same. So he's probably power lifter or something like that. Yeah.

And plus got a fucked up neck. What's his name? They don't know his name? No need to blow his poor man spot up. Just got a fucked up neck. But I take his neck over the skinny neck. No, I wouldn't. You know what?

Maybe his neck is like genetically fucked up like that. And maybe the guy with the skinny neck just doesn't work out. Like the situation. So that's what, it's not, it doesn't bug me when somebody is just, they have a slender neck, but when they go through so much trouble to look like an alpha male. Right. But they have that little chicken neck. Right.

And then they're posing like they're that's got to be a big issue with you like as a woman like the way you interact with men as a world champion muay thai woman yeah i haven't figured that out you have to have a hard time with the men i do i bet you do i do yeah yeah because you need to get a real one like a real real one like that's the only way it's going to work. Yeah, it doesn't. No. Imagine it's hard out there for a pimp. It is, right?

So I had, he has a great boyfriend, but we went out of country. We fought on the same card. He fought the day before me. I fought the next day. During the fight, he almost gets knocked out. day before me i fought the next day during the fight he almost gets knocked out as this guy is mauling him he goes like this what do you think i was thinking um not good thoughts the boyfriend the boyfriend my boyfriend like like this yeah you didn't like it fuck no did it turn you off oh my god so much.

Whoa. I was like, dude, you're getting fucked up. And as you're falling to the canvas, you still need to go, fuck you. You're like, fuck you. Like that. So the way he was getting beaten was fucking with you. Yeah. It wasn't just that he was getting beaten.

I don't care. I don't know. I don't care. Yeah, I don't care. That he wasn't digging in. Yeah. Like you gotta fucking like take that shit. Take it.

Yeah. Like, you know, like a champ or like a, like a fighter. Right. Yeah. You can't be like, wow. That was, oh. I'm sorry. Was that the beginning of the end?

Yeah. That was tap, tap, tap. And he was a great boyfriend. He was great. Tap, tap, tap, tap, was a great boyfriend He was great Tap tap tap tap tap Yes it was Tap tap tap It was Maybe sometimes it's like

That's the problem It's the balance The ones who are not going to be Great boyfriends Are the ones that are going to Turn you on Yeah Because they're

They're ruthless Yeah Yeah I was like I can balance that shit Like I said I can be ruthless Yeah

And be like gentle I was like I don't Not well I mean Like I said. I can be ruthless. Yeah. And be like gentle. I was like, I don't. Not, well, I mean, I'm sure some men can. Sweet. My kale chips. It's great. Yeah, I get it.

I don't get it. Some people can. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I think your requirements, particularly as a fighter, they're going to be extraordinarily high. As a world champion fighter. Yeah. Yeah.

they're going to be extraordinarily high as a world champion fighter yeah yeah you're almost better off dating a guy who's like a navy seal or something who can't fight oh or maybe he can fight but he's not a fighter yeah he doesn't you know he knows how to fight he's a killer he's a killer not a fighter yeah he's not in there fight maybe like you could relate more yeah yeah i don't know. Trying to give you dating advice? I'll try it out and I'll let you know. Well, I think that I've noticed this. I mean, except for the ones that are lesbians.

I always look at women who are fighters and I go, hmm. They're limited in their dating pool. Yeah. Because girls who are fighters, they don't want to date someone who can't fight. The last thing a girl wants who's like a professional fighter or if somebody was really smart you know yeah but even the guy's really smart because because then they like as long as they ace me somewhere they have to really fight you're like no no you can say that you're trying to find a nice man you're like maybe i can compromise no you need a killer.

No, what would bother me about that was like, you're a fighter, but you're not being a fighter. Right. I'm just like. You're not savage enough. Ugh. Well, you're worried that if the shit hits the fan, that's what every woman is worried. If the shit hits the fan, how do you react? How do you react?

And you don't really know until you see someone react when the shit hits the fan and when you see the shit hitting the fan you see them going yikes ah you're like fuck i can't count on you see i think you would have been better outside of the fighting situation outside if the shit hit the fan oh so so for me it was definitely like fighters ego like nah dude you need to have more pride than that. Well, how you do anything is how you do everything. Okay. All right.

Maybe, yeah. Especially under duress. I mean, people make mistakes. People panic. People learn from those mistakes. I mean, there are people that fold in fights that come back way stronger and will never fold because they folded before they felt it. Because they made a mistake. You know, you make a split-second decision in the middle of a fight,

and something inside you, it exposes weakness that maybe you weren't prepared for the world to see. And then when you feel the pain of that weakness, you make a vow that you're never going to experience that again. That's entirely possible. I feel like mental strength is not – I don't think you either have it or you don't have it. I don't buy that shit. I think you can develop it.

I think you can build it. And I think mental toughness and just the ability to persevere is something that you can cultivate. I really believe that. Absolutely. So maybe he needed to feel shying away and feel you going, hey, motherfucker, you know, when you're getting hit, don't do any of this shit. Maybe someone needs to hear that.

So then when it's happening, they go, fuck that. I'm not doing this anymore. Dig deep. And then they dig deep and step to the side or clinch or do something. Just like go out like a warrior. Yeah. Or figure your way, a better response to the situation. Then again, sometimes you get clipped and your

neuromuscular system just goes and everything's just off it's just you're not responding right because your your system's getting shut but it was more like ah get away from me that's not good yeah i didn't like that miriam we just did two and a half hours What? Flew by It's 4.30 That wasn't scary at all

It wasn't scary at all I told you my friend We're gonna take care of you We're all good Yes man Listen That's awesome We'll have you on again

When you have a fight scheduled And we'll pump that shit up Okay Let me know when Let me know what it is Bare knuckle boxing Whatever Maybe right

They're doing a lot of that You gotta go to Wyoming And do it on a ranch Or something right Pay well Does it pay well Yeah Does it

Uh huh Way more Really I know somebody That did four rounds For ten thousand Four rounds For ten thousand

Yes You say that Like that's not That's a lot of money For that For just boxing Four rounds But boxing bare knuckle

What if you break your hands? We'll talk. We'll talk. Tell people how to find you on Instagram, on Twitter, all that stuff. Oh, I'm Miriam Nakamoto. Spell it out so people know. M-I-R-I-A-M Nakamoto. Okay, that's not helpful.

Figure out Nakamoto. Nakamoto. It's on my Instagram. She'll be linked there. All right. Thanks, man. Thank you, Miriam. Appreciate you. Bye, everybody. Nakamoto okay that's not help out Nakamoto Nakamoto it's on my Instagram she's linked she'll be linked there alright thanks man appreciate you

bye everybody bye