The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #52 with Michael Bisping

Episode Date: December 11, 2018

Joe is joined by retired former UFC Middleweight Champion & commentator/analyst Michael Bisping.

5, 4, 3, 2, 1 setup you have as an englishman please explain to me the hawaiian flag what the fuck is the hawaiian flag straight off the bat i'm like i was confused i was looking at the other day when max holloway won i was like if i didn't if you didn't know any better and you looked at that you're like this is some strange british flag right off the bat i'm like joe's a smart guy i've seen the podcast he goes deep on things i'm like do i need to read some encyclopedias before I come on here? And the first thing you say is explain the British flag, sorry, the Hawaiian flag. What is that? Well, I can't claim

to be an expert on the history of Hawaii. I failed that class, funnily enough, but I would say that we colonized it at one point, much like America. I don't know if you know this much like

Australia India yeah Australia's got a funky flag too yeah you know we like to insert the Union Jack in lots of things and you think about the size of England

how much of the world you guys kicked ass on it's pretty god damn impressive it really is but again I'm no historian no but no it is I'm a proud Englishman I guess our ancestors well not my ancestors i'm my ancestors are polish and irish

but uh but yeah the british they did okay did a lot of shit got a lot done they did they did you know i was at a um they did a lot of terrible things i'm sure over the years a little bit yeah i remember once i was in uh in canada at uh at a party of all things about three o'clock in the morning as what you know as one does and um i walk in and some guy starts going crazy at me the things that the british have done over the years you should be ashamed of yourself and he was causing a huge scene really screaming at me right and i mean going crazy and i'm like dude what the fuck nothing to do with me he's like you should be ashamed so in the end i said well where's your family from and you're not gonna believe this he said

mongolian germany oh i'm like fucking you're a german you're a german and you're giving me shit about my heritage okay buddy i suggest you shut the fuck up that's pretty hilarious because when you think about the history the germans way more recent oh yeah just a little bit just a little bit, just a little bit. Oh, the English stuff is in the past. That's nothing. Come on. That's like with swords and arrows and shit.

Yeah, Robin Hood times. Come on, come on. You know? Do you like living over here? Yeah, very much so. You know, I mean, of course, you know, you miss home. You miss friends and family. Certainly, you know, as you get older and your parents get older, you know, you do think about those things.

But, yeah, it's great. It's a great place to live. Your accent has tamed itself a bit. When you go back home, do they give you shit about it? I get shit all the time, yeah. All the time. They're like, what's this weird accent, Mike? And it's like this.

I'm intelligent enough to adapt to the surroundings that I'm in. You know, I'll now say tomatoes instead of tomatoes because I don't want a cute little back and forth for five minutes with the fucking waitress. Do you know what I mean? I just want to order my breakfast and go about my day. Oh, my God, you're English. You know what I mean?

So I'll say tomato. I'll say coffee. But when I go back home, it kind of, you know, and then working on Fox, they worked on me for a while. They're like, Mike, we like, well, we think we like what you're saying. The problem is we can't understand what you're saying. It seems like it's good stuff. There's lots of energy there, but you've got to slow down,

over-pronounce your words. So, yeah, it is a little bastardized. Have you thought about doing commentary on UFC cards? Have you done any of those yet? I've just done the, what is it, the Contender Series. That's it? Yeah, that's it. But I think it's, well, I know it should be coming up.

Just negotiated a deal for it with Zach. Well, that's good to hear. Yeah, yeah, you know. Because you're really excellent as an analyst. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate that. I really enjoy your insight when you're on the panel. That panel's great.

That is one of the best things the UFC's done is do that post-fight show because when the fights are over, you're sitting around going, fuck, holy shit, and then to have you guys break it down and then break it down beforehand as well, but break it down afterwards. I really do enjoy that. Oh, thank you very much. Yeah, the guys do a good job.

Yeah, it's fun. You know, I mean, it's nice to be involved with the sport, obviously, as a martial artist, as a fighter, and then now retired to still, you know, still have a little hand in there. It's nice, yeah. But you've made a smooth transition from being a fighter to retired. It seems, at least from the outside that it seems fairly smooth it's like some guys have a rocky road it's it's hard for them well

it's because um you know i mean i i i want to tell the truth while i'm on here so so i will tell the truth but you know i had eye injuries yeah you know the eye injuries happened in 2013, I always felt like I was on borrowed time. So I was conscious of trying to set myself up outside of the octagon, where a lot of fighters don't have that luxury. I'm thinking it could end at any moment. So I was actively pursuing a life outside the octagon, a career outside the octagon.

So then when that day came, I was good, you know. Excuse me. Some carbonated energy drink that shall remain nameless. But yeah, so yeah, I was working on that for a while. And yeah, you know, things are going well. You know, there's quite a lot of things going on. Yeah, you do that podcast with Luis Gomez. Got the podcast, believe you me. I've got a lot of things going on. Yeah, you do that podcast with Luis Gomez. Got the podcast,

believe you me. I've got a company called PlayLime. What is that? It's a gambling, it's fancy sports, but it's fancy sports simplified. Basically, it's kind of like a sports lottery.

So if we were focusing on the UFC, who's going to win? What round? How many takedowns? We do five stats. You hit them bang on, you get a billion dollars. We had the analytics groups at Harvard and Yale come up with a league.

So the top 50 people split a rate. If you hit everything, you get a billion? You get a billion dollars. A one buh? A B? Boom. Billion dollars, baby. And we give away a million dollars every single day.

Playline.com. Boom. There it is. One billion dollars in prizes available in our first year. And it's blowing up. It's blowing up big time. We're just about to sign a deal with a couple of major sports franchises to be their official game.

So that's going really well. So it's essentially like a fantasy martial arts thing. No, it's NASCAR, football, MMA. The beauty of Playline is you can set a Playline to anything. We can set a Playline. How many times is Bisping going to burp? How many times is he going to get up and have a piss? How many times is Rogan going to roll his eyes at Mike?

Do you know what I mean? You can set it for anything, so it's very applicable. How many likes is Kim Kardashian going to get in her next post? You know what I mean? So we're getting a lot of traction. It's doing really, really well. Very proud of it. I would think if it's a billion dollars,

I would think it'd be like some Guy Ritchie movie where some mobsters would get together with some fighters and say, this is how we're going to do it, see? Try and fix it. You're going down three times. Okay, I've never heard an English gangster sound like from 1920s Chicago. See?

This is what we're going to do, see? This is what we're going to do, see? But yeah, I guess, no. Is that possible? Nobody's cheated yet. Well, you know, the reason why I say this. Thanks for totally undermining the system, Joe. Really appreciate it.

The reason why I say this is because this is what happened with Professional Pool. Professional Pool had a line at one point in time in Vegas casinos, and the pool players all got together and said, listen, let's fucking put all our money on this guy who's a 10-to-1 win it or 10 to 1 underdog to win it and we'll all make money and so they all dumped and this one guy i think his name is mike lebron he won the whole thing the only way you could do that is if there was no stats no stats right so if it was a game of basketball everyone would just have to stand there and do nothing right which i would assume i mean i don't know too much about basketball, but I would assume

athletic commissions, referees. People get involved. Somebody would say something if everyone was just standing there doing nothing. Well, they did with pool.

You can't gamble on pool anymore. Oh, really? Pool players are too shady. Well, they are. They're shady. They're shady guys. Yeah, they are.

Anyone that plays pool in England, it's because they spend so much time in pubs. Exactly. You spend so much time in pubs Exactly You spend so much time in pubs You're hanging out with Some interesting characters

Yeah You know Yeah Unsavory characters Dude you started at UFC Ultimate Fighter Season 2 How crazy is that? Were you Season 3? 3

What season are they on now? Like 90 or some shit? Like what are they on? I think they just did 28. 28, but that's only US. They have the Brazilian one. They have the Australian. Diego Sanchez is still fucking going on it.

That's what's insane. Season one. That's impressive. Season one. He's a maniac. God bless him. Good for him. Good for him.

And he fucking won recently, which is even more impressive. No, I know. And he fights in a way that isn't conducive to a long career. No. But he's had one. My word. It's insane is it really is he's a warrior such a fucking character too oh dude he's out of his mind in a good way i mean you know i mean that's a compliment i do as well yeah yeah no he's a maniac but uh i mean that guy season one and still still going strong no i know i know crazy. It's been a long ride for myself as well, but enjoyed it. Enjoyed every minute of it. It was great.

Nice to leave having won the title, though, right? Oh, 100%. Oh, how nice is that? To cap it off? Because you had such a long career, man. I mean, you fought the best of the best, and for you to cap it off, knocking out Luke Rockhold and then having that, no one could take that away from you forever.

No, for sure. You know, I mean, I was talking about this recently. I'm filming a documentary called Built for This, and it's about my career. And they were asking about that. You know, how would you feel? Excuse me. This carbonating energy drink that shall remain nameless.

Energy drink. Is it called creature or something like that? Creature or demon. Something like that. Mythological or demon. Something like that. Mythological. Scary. Where was it? Yeah, scary.

Scary monster. There you go. No, no. They were asking about my fight career. How would I have felt had I not won the belt? And, you know, I mean, it would have felt like it was unfinished business. I wouldn't have been quite as content as walking away when I did, had I not won the belt.

Other than winning the belt and winning the Ultimate Fighter, I'm sure, but what was your most satisfying victory? Was it Kung Lee? No, no. I don't know. My most satisfying victory, my word. Oh, Anderson Silva. Anderson Silva.

Yeah, that was a big one for me. That was a big one too because of the cheap knee. It was cheap it was glad you said that it was cheap i mean i'm a giant anderson silver fan yeah everybody is you don't get any bigger anderson silver fan than me but you didn't have your mouthpiece you were pointing to the mouthpiece you were separated and you took a pause and you thought the referee was going to separate you and give you back your mouthpiece and anderson comes in with the knee. Well, I know the rules. There has to be a lull in the action for the referee to step in.

And I'm backing up and we're not engaging in blows. To me, that's a lull in the action. So I take that moment to point down over here and say my mouthpiece and as I'm down there, boom, he throws a beautiful knee. It was beautiful, it really was. Perfectly timed. Yeah, and good for him. I don't hold it against the guy.

But you fucking came back like Lazarus. It wasn't fucking easy, I'll tell you that. That took every part of my will to continue. But you came back and won the next round. That was what is spectacularly impressive. But that's what you said, what is the most satisfying win. And I'd say that was one of spectacularly impressive but that's what you said what is the most satisfying win

and I'd say that was one of them of course you know beating Rockhold and winning the belt nothing tops that but it would be the big one too

because you came in on short notice as well sure sure but the yeah the Anderson one because of that you know it just made the storyline

so much better you know to fight through that adversity to you know have to dig deep after winning um you know have to uh dig deep after winning it all you know i won the first dropped him dropped him in the second round third round i was winning then that happened so yeah no it felt good it felt good yeah that was

uh that i mean that also like to just to get a victory over that guy when it all said and done there's uh there's some yeah listen, I'm aware that people would say, oh, but you didn't get Anderson in his prime. Well, maybe it wasn't his prime, but with the amount of shit that I talked, I certainly see a difference in the way he fought me to the way he's fought recently, you know? And it's funny because people always say,

you're not worried that when you talk shit going into a fight that you're going to motivate your opponent even more. And I always used to say, ah, no, don't be stupid. Listen, they're going to try and hit you as hard as they can. But I don't know.

In that one, I think it did motivate Anderson because he was certainly not fucking about in that one. That's for sure. No, you were... It wasn't like the Anderson in the Derek Brunson fight.

That's for sure. Yeah, that was a different fight, right? Derek Brunson and him almost like they made an agreement. They didn't fight. Yeah, it was a weird fight. Yeah, it was weird. Derek Brunson didn't want to risk anything, didn't want to engage with him too quickly or go too hard. But then you see some of his fights, he comes at you like a fucking marauder.

Who? Derek Brunson. Oh, yeah, no, absolutely. I was talking about this recently with the Israel Adesanya fight. And I think I kind of pissed Israel off with a couple of my comments. And that wasn't my intention.

I said, Excuse me. I said, I don't know if I'm completely sold on Israel yet. And what I meant by that, I didn't mean sold on him being a great fighter because he's clearly a great fighter. He's clearly world-class. What I meant was sold, I didn't mean sold on him being a great fighter because he's clearly a great fighter. He's clearly world class.

What I meant was sold on him being the future of the division and being the champion. That's what I meant because Brunson never showed up in that fight. And I mean that with the greatest of respect. He was like a deer in the headlights. He was intimidated. He'd just been knocked out of Jack Array. He was a little gun shy.

And it was a great performance. Israel did what he needed to do. But as I say, you know, it takes two to tango, and there was only Israel really fighting in that fight. So when I said those comments, I said, oh, I'm not entirely sold on that fight. That's what I meant. I didn't mean because I don't think he's world-class

or an excellent fighter, because he clearly is. I just meant not sold on that fight, whether or not he's the future of the division well it's a stacked fucking division i mean look i mean you still have yoel romero at the top of the heap i don't know what they're doing with him i mean he was supposed to be fighting uh um boa china oh yeah palo costa costa boha chin yeah who's a fucking monster. If anybody who's not on steroids, who looks like they're on steroids, it's him and Yoel Romero.

They're all on fucking steroids. You think so? Well, it's not that easy these days with you, Sade. It's hard. But come on. Some of them are on steroids. Some of them probably are. Joe.

But who's on? Okay. You're telling me that you don't believe That Yoel Romero Ever took a steroid In his life I didn't say that Okay I definitely didn't say that I think it's possible

It's totally possible Oh it's possible How's that fence you're sitting on I get it I get it It's a tough scenario For you to be in UFC commentator

I'm fucking honest bro If I believe it I'll say it And let's not forget He tested positive There was that whole Yes Anytime somebody says It was a tainted supplement,

it's bullshit. You never tested positive for anyone. Never tested positive in my life. Let me tell you something. I'm not a guy that scours the back of everything I read. I'm a careless motherfucker. I really am. I wish I wasn't, but I am.

I'll just go through my life doing what I do. I've been tested a million times. Never come close. Okay? Some of the guys, they blow up the lab. There's no smoke without fire. You know what I'm saying? I agree with you. I agree with you. I remember there was talk years back, before USADA, there was talk of certain camps that would hire guys who knew testing. And these guys would

orchestrate a program for these fighters to make sure that they didn't get caught right they would figure out ways to you know to taper off but still keep your gains and and make sure that you didn't test positive at all and this was done under the assumption that everyone else was cheating as well and this was for a long time that was how a lot of people viewed the sport there was guys like you bj penn there was a few guys that you just knew weren't going to do anything it was their word they said they were never going to do anything and and they never looked like they did anything you always maintain the exact same physique throughout your entire career well the thing is i i think where it started getting a little weird. And I don't want to bang on about steroids too much

because that's been a narrative that I've over, you know, I've said my piece about that. I don't want to, you know, bang on about it too much. But I think where the waters really got murky is when TRT came in. Yes. When testosterone replacement therapy became a thing and all you had to do was go to your doctor and said, hey, you know, I can't get a hard-on or whatever and all of a sudden they sign you off well even trt

no i know even worse you could take steroids first and then come off of it so your testosterone was low oh really go to a doctor and say i have low testosterone of course yeah because it messes up your natural production of it this is what guys did guys took steroids and then went in afterwards and said they have low testosterone because they were on steroids. Sure. No, exactly. So then it became legal.

And then you had all these guys coming out there saying, you know, if I'm not on TRT, I'll die. I'll die. And then they outlawed it. And then 10 years later, some of them are still fighting to this day. Yes. You know, so without naming names,

you know who you are. Shame on you. Well, we've talked about TRT Belfort. TRT Vitor Belfort forever. I mean, that was when he was on TRT, he was a different kind of human being. He was just completely different than he is in any other circumstance. Oh, yeah. Looking back, you can see that.

I mean, because when I fought him, I fought him on TRT. You fought him when he was at the super Vitor level. Absolutely. He looked like fucking the Incredible Hulk. He had muscles on his fucking eyebrows. Yeah, looking back, you can see that. But at the time, as a fighter, you can't think like that. You know what I mean?

What are you looking at? That doesn't even do it justice. No, that doesn't do it justice. That's supposed to be before and after. Yeah. I'm just recovering from a cold at the week. I'm a little congested, so I keep coughing. The real key is that's better.

That's way better. That's much more accurate. And he's a guy who was known to take things. I mean, he took things early in his career. Remember when he fought Randy when he was 19? He was 240 pounds. Yeah, exactly. His neck started at the early in his career. Remember when he fought Randy when he was 19? He was 240 pounds. Yeah, exactly. His neck started at the top of his head.

Yeah. But, yeah, I remember there was a picture of us both on the scale in Brazil. And, you know, looking back now, you're like, holy shit. You know, anyone else would think, have you seen this guy? He's kind of big. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But you don't think like that at the time. You can't as a fighter.

If you start having those thoughts, those doubts, start looking at a fighter's physique and thinking, Oh, he looks good. You've already lost, you know, but in hindsight,

you can look back and say, Holy fuck, what was I thinking? You know, this guy's fucking rodded out of his mind. I remember on there, I was trying to get a rise out of him and he kept putting his hand in my face. I'm not a religious guy. And, and, you know, God bless anyone that is, you know, there, I was trying to get a rise out of him, and he kept putting his hand in my face. I'm not a religious guy, and, you know, God bless anyone that is.

You know, I mean that. I respect everyone's opinions, but I'm not. And as we know, Vito is heavily religious. And he kept sticking his thing in my face. He was pissing me off. So I said, Vito, come here, come here. And he leans in. I said, there is no Jesus.

Maybe there is. Maybe there is, you is you know me getting dropped with a head kick in the second round maybe that was God thwarting me who knows what did he say

some fucking Portuguese bullshit I don't know there is the fine line right between talking shit and and backing it up.

But you did a great job of pissing people off in your career. And that plays a factor. Whatever you can do to get them a little bit out of their comfort zone, a little bit out of their composure. And you were really good at that. Yeah. You know, I mean, I hate that to be, you know, the first thing people say about me.

But, you know. Well, it's one element. It was a thing. You know, it was what I did. And in my mind, you know, where I come from, my background, you know, if we're going to fight, then we're going to fight. And then it's all out war, you know, until it's all said and done. And if I can make you doubt yourself, if I can, you know,

it's like at the weigh-ins. At the weigh-ins, that's the last time you're going to get a chance to stand in front of your opponent and send a message to him. You know what I mean? And if you get in his face and you can just instill a little fear,

puff your chest. That's why animals do it in the wild. You know what I mean? Puff your chest out, look intimidating, look as angry as you can, you know? And some fighters might just look at that and laugh and say, this ain't going to work on me. But some it does.

And then they don't fight to the best of their ability because they're slightly doubting themselves and they're not fully committing to the punch or the kick. And if they're not fully committing, they're not 100%. They're not fighting as well as they can be. And I'm winning that battle. So, yeah, you look like kind of a thug standing up there and pointing your finger and talking shit,

but it's for a reason. It works. Yeah, it does. What about McGregor? McGregor's the best at it. He gets people to fold. Look at Dustin Poirier. He didn't even show up in that first fight.

It's true. I mean, don't get me wrong. He was great as well. It wasn't just the trash talk. No, he's great as well. I think the Nate Dia't just the trash talk. No, he's great as well. I think the Nate Diaz fight, it didn't work in that fight. Yeah. Because Nate doesn't give a fuck.

Doesn't give a fuck, there you go. Doesn't work. Exactly, it doesn't work. You can talk shit at him, he's like, fuck you. It doesn't, yeah, it doesn't make him feel bad at all. He enjoys it. Yeah, no, exactly. I think it makes him feel comforting.

Yeah, well, you know, it's just another day at the office, you know. It's a thing, like a lot of people would wish that fighters were respectful and just, you know, treated it the martial arts way and bowed to each other. And that's great. It is, you know, it's funny. I was working out this morning and the gym manager, he said, you know, I said, I feel like that side of things kind of, you know, it's killing the UFC.

And I said, shut the fuck up i'm like you know i nodded away and like you know respectful to the guy um but i i see his point i understand what he's saying but it's entertainment and it gets people that that's another reason why i used to do it you're trying to sell the fight you know you want you want every product you're involved with to be as popular as possible whether it's a podcast whether it's fighting whether it's whatever it is if no one's watching no one gives a fuck then you're not going to make much money you're not going to get booked again you're not going to be on the big cards you talk a little i know from a consumer standpoint if i'm watching a fight i mean look at that last week with their fury and wilder yeah you know i

was eating out the palm of their hands it was an amazing fight but it hypes it, it's great it's awesome to watch, I mean yes it is beautiful to see two fighters walk up there and bow and shake hands and all the rest of it but it's also a little fucking boring if I'm honest, like when I'm working the weighing shows I'm like give me something to talk

about please, you know because I don't want to talk about your boring last fight that went to a split decision when nothing really happened but if you get in their face at the way great we can pump it up a little bit we can sell the fight we can hype it up yeah when they have these press conferences and no one's being mean at all i mean half the fun is talking yeah no absolutely you know i'm enjoying myself i'm in my element up there it's like you know the famous one with gsp when he was like are you intoxicated yeah You know, it's like, well,

yeah, I am. Yeah, I'm in Vegas. What do you want me to do? You know, you don't want to fight until the end of the year

and it's January. Okay. If we were fighting in two months, I wouldn't be intoxicated. But right now I am, you know, so,

yeah. Well, there's been some hilarious moments in press conferences. I mean, the one, the giant one with the UFC where Jeremy Stephens calls out to Conor and Conor goes, who the fuck is that guy? That was hilarious.

That was great. It really was good. Honestly, every time I see that, I do laugh. It was great. All he had to say. Yeah. Who the fuck is that guy? But I don't know.

But I think he was actually serious. Who the fuck is this guy? Calling me out, talking shit. I'm sure he knows who Jeremy Stevens is. I don't know. You don't think so? Maybe. Maybe not.

Maybe not. I don't know everybody up there sometimes at press conferences. Yeah, you can't. You know what I mean? UFC has more than 500 fighters on their roster. Exactly. Yeah. Especially when they have those giant press conferences and there's yeah any levels of there's like 16 fighters up there yeah it's impossible exactly i like both i like when fighters are respectful and i like when fighters talk shit yeah for sure i mean i

did enjoy it was nice to see uh brian ortega max holloway they had that nice back and forth where max sorry pardon me, Brian was, you know, he's like, listen, I hope you're well and I hope you're over

the injuries and all that type of thing. That was nice to see. It was great. But they both were exuding confidence at the same time. They were both adamant

they were going to win the fight. So, it wasn't, they weren't being too overly cordial. Yes. You know, I don't want to see that.

Right, right, right. I don't want to see two fights pretending like they're in church or meeting the fucking president, I don't want to see that. Right, right, right. I don't want to see two fighters pretending like they're in church or meeting the fucking president. Okay? I want to see two guys that want to rip each other's head off. Yeah.

Call me an animal. Call me a barbarian. Call me whatever you want. But that's what gets my, you know, engine ticking. Well, even when they were at the final weigh-in

and they're staring each other down, like, even though it was respectful, there was a lot of tension. there was a lot of tension. There was a lot of tension. You knew what was going down. At the weigh-in, yeah. I never saw that one.

When they were at the weigh-in, and Max and Brian, they just stood, you know, a couple feet away from each other, staring at each other. It was intense. It was real. That was a fucking hell of a fight, too.

Max was incredible. He's incredible. He really is. Really is. I mean, I was kind of not concerned and of course. Well, you were the one

who initially threw up the red flag. When you saw him, you just felt like he looked too tired or what did you think? He was slurring his words. He looked half asleep.

Right. He looked like he just got out of bed. That's how he looked and then he was slurring his words and then so I just said, you okay Max? Everything good? And he's just like how he looked. And then he was slurring his words. And then, so I just said, you okay, Max? Everything good?

And he's just like, you know. He was slurring. Simple as that. And I'm like, and of course, UFC Tonight, you have a production meeting. We go over the questions we're going to ask. So you've got the questions there in front of you. And I thought, I can't stick to these questions. I've got to ask this guy, are you okay?

Good for you. I'm glad you did that. Well, you know, I felt bad afterwards glad you did that well you know i felt bad afterwards because then i heard that the fight was off and then i thought shit if i'd gone on you know two days three days out from a fight if i'd gone on fucking ufc tonight or whatever just doing my obligations as a fighter and then another fighter on the roster is calling me out for an injury and now the fight's off i'd have have been pissed off with them. You know what I mean? Maybe, you know,

that's my choice if I want to highlight it. So I felt a little bad, but I really respected Max. He sent me a message thanking me. You know, he said, thank you. He said, you know,

he said, I appreciate that. I needed someone to do that because he knew he wasn't 100%. So yeah, you know. So anyway, I was saying I wasn't fully convinced that he was okay because it seemed like he was, I don't fully convinced that he was okay because it seemed like

he was I don't know still slurring his words or whatever but he's kind of a mumbler he's a mumbler yeah

so am I you know so he's he was fine though he was more than fine more than fine he looked insane insane

so good and Ortega fired back Ortega hit him with some big shots third round hit him with a couple of big shots. At the end of the third round, he's like, this is my round.

Yeah, no, I saw that. I told you, yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. Fucking cardio, man. His cardio is incredible. Through the roof, you know. Excellent footwork combinations, cuts angles well, reads the fight.

That's the main thing, you know what I mean? He reads the fight. He reads the fight, and he's so good at implementing that strategy of consistent pressure, constant angles, switching stances, and he switches stances flawlessly. He fights just as good southpaws as he does orthodox, and he'll switch in the middle of a combination and then turn corners on you.

Absolutely. That's right. He's not there to be counted. Yeah, he's fucking amazing, man. Really good. And when you hit him back, you let him collapse. He's like, good, good, good. Yeah, yeah an amazing man really good and when you hit him back you like claps Yeah, yeah, no, remember against Ricardo Lamas. Yeah, and he just pointed at the floor. He's like come on Let's go right here. Let's stand and bang it out. Yeah, he's awesome. Okay, that was awesome

Yeah, really was you know, it's it's great to see that he is okay, too But I'm really happy that you did Point that out because there was some issues and I think a lot of that probably had to do, I'm just speculating, but probably had to do with that massive weight cut. I mean, he was trying to get down

really quickly to 155, which is crazy, right? Because he fights at 145. He's the champion and even struggling to go down from, he was in the 180s to get down to 155

quickly to fight Khabib. For the Khabib fight, yeah. Because they offered it to him on last minute. Sure. You know, when Tony tore his knee apart. Was that on set with you guys?

Were you there that day? I wasn't there. I wasn't there, no. But yeah, it was in the studios, yeah. What a fucking freak occurrence. That was crazy. Trips over some wires, blows his knee apart. What was it?

The fight had been matched three times. Yeah. And then they're almost there. They're at the finish line doing the final bit of press. Yeah, it's crazy. It trips over some wires. You can't write that. No.

It's insane. You can't. Such bad luck. It's like those guys are destined to never fight. Oh, they've got to fight now. If I could wave a wand in any match I want

in that division, that's the match I want. Oh, for sure. Well, it's the fight that has to happen. You know, I mean, Tony is, in my mind, still the interim champion yeah you know i mean i have no idea why they tripped him it doesn't make any sense to me listen tony's you know he's

a he's a he's a character shall we say yeah he's a character he's a unique character but he in my mind he fought for the interim title he won the interim title and then he fucking blew his knee out yeah you know so you know listen his knee out. Yeah. You know, so. But he blew his knee out doing press obligations. He didn't do anything stupid. No, exactly. That's why I didn't understand that they stripped him. I was like, this guy, I mean, the guy's ready to fight. Yeah.

I mean, and then a few months later, he was ready to go again. He beats the shit out of Pettis. Yeah. And he looked incredible. Yeah. See, I was kind of concerned in that fight as well because it was so fast coming back. So fast. And apparently he was doing his own rehab and doing all these wild techniques.

And you saw that stuff online that he was doing. I thought, this guy's going to hurt himself again. But no, he went out there and looked amazing. Apparently he didn't even do any sparring. Oh, really? Yeah. Interesting. I need to find this out for sure from him.

But the word I'm getting from people that know him is that he didn't spar. He just got in incredible shape, and he said, look, this knee is healing up. It's in the process of healing, and during his camp, it was continuing to heal. Interesting. And the way he kept that going is, don't do any takedowns.

Don't get your knee wrenched. Don't get leg kicked. Well, sparring is the hardest part of preparing for a fight, of course. Well, and the wrestling. Wrestling and sparring, they're the toughest. Probably wrestling practice, actually. Find a wrestler who doesn't have fucked up knees.

Yeah, my knees are fucked. Not that I'm a wrestler, far from it, but my knees are just destroyed. Meniscus, mostly? Well, I think I have a torn meniscus on my good knee right now. That's my good knee, but my bad knee, actually, GSP, the son of a bitch, he caused it

back at I was training for the ultimate fighter 3 final and I was training with George and we were training you know

Zufa the old Zufa headquarters that little gym at the bottom with the boxing ring yeah we were wrestling in there and my knee hit the floor

tore my PCL and then just I don't know one thing after the other you know that was what 13 12 years ago.

And it's just always been kind of fucked? Yeah, well, I'm sitting here right now. When we finish, when I stand, I limp like crazy because when I sit here like this, it just seizes up like crazy. So if I'm in a restaurant, I stand up and I walk like a moron. If I'm going to the bathroom, everyone's like, fucking look at this guy, Jesus Christ. But then I walk back and I'm walking in fine.

They're like, this attention-seeking bastard forgot that he put on a fake limb when he went to the bathroom. I'm like, no, it's unseized now. It's okay. It's just when I first stand up. Yeah, a popliteal cyst. I think that's what's causing that right now. Oh, so there's a cyst in there? I think so, yeah.

You can get that drained. Yeah, no, I know. I've had cysts on my right knee. I've had them drained twice. Yeah, I've got to get that done. It's a pain in there? I think so, yeah. Well, no, there is. You can get that drained. Yeah, no, I know. I've had cysts on my right knee. I've had them drained twice. Yeah, I've got to get that done. It's a pain in the ass. Yeah, it is. The last time, they just went in there and just pulverized it.

Went in there and just kept sticking it with needles. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, I've got to get it done. I've got to get that. I've got to get a lot of shit done. My neck issue. Remember we were talking years ago in Manchester about my neck.

Yeah, I never got that taken care of. Well, you, I mean, people didn't know. But but what i mean it was hard for me to talk about i didn't want to talk about too much while i was commentating your fights but you had a neck injury that was so bad one of your arms was weaker than the other like if you were doing bench press oh for sure still to this day i mean you could you could take that samurai sword i don't advise it and stick it through the skin there and i wouldn't feel a thing well i don't know if i wouldn't feel a thing but i'm totally numb totally numb i had a shower after my workout before and then what i get a lot i get like the it's like i uh yeah but down the entire

right side i was in the shower i was uh it's happened a few times when i've been working on tv i was doing this show called hyperdrive for netflix in the summer and we were it was we were it was night shoots it's like four in the morning and all of a sudden i'm doing this everyone's going oh my god i'm like it's okay calm down they're like medic i'm like no it's okay it happens all the time so yeah it's just pinch nerve you know c5 c6 i gotta get it taken care of um have you ever done any decompression or anything like that um this it's all my my own fault yeah i'm too old school i need to go in and have treatment on my body but it's like it's a whole thing joe yeah it takes i'm a busy man you know i haven't got an afternoon to go sit and you know get massaged or decompressed or i need to do it i need to do it and and this year 2019 is the year that i get all these little because my quality of life is still

fine you know what i mean i just i just grin and bear it and whatever and just occasionally have a mini heart attack you know i'll be okay i'm fine um but eventually this is the year i'm gonna get all these little niggles taken care of. Well, there's a company in Santa Monica called Lifespan Medicine, and they do a procedure called Regenequin, and that's what Peyton Manning had done over in Germany. Kobe Bryant had it done. And this is how I fix my bulging disc in my neck. Well, when I saw you there in Manchester, Dana tried to send me to Germany. Yes, and I was telling you, you don't have to go to Germany.

You can go to Santa Monica. Yeah, it's exactly the same procedure. I didn't go to Germany. Yeah, don't go to Germany. Yes, and I was telling you, you don't have to go to Germany. You can go to Santa Monica. It's exactly the same procedure. I didn't go to Germany. Yeah, don't go to Germany. I couldn't be bothered. That's the problem. You didn't do anything. I don't want to go down and spend half an hour or half my day. I don't want to fly to fucking Germany and give them a week or whatever. It's not that much time. It'll take you like a couple

of hours. You do it three or four times and they can fix it. No, I know. It'll decrease all the inflammation. The other thing is, there's a thing that they sell at amazon you just get on amazon.com or a bunch of other stores online and it's a spinal decompression harness i've seen it hanging on a door have you seen the thing where you use there you pump it up with your hand that one too i thought that's what you were talking about that's a good one too i haven't used that one but i have friends that have used that one they like it a lot it's not bad it bad. It's not bad. The one that I use, you hang from a door. It's a little more hardcore.

Right. It's hooked up to this harness. It clips to the top of the door, and you crank it. Click, click, click, click, click, click, click. And you're literally hanging. You're hanging there. Yeah, I was going to say. In a chair.

But it just, oh, when you get out of there, everything feels good. I'm going to try and get one of those. And if you do it consistently, it'll decompress it. Oh, really? Yeah, you can do it in your house. I need to do that. I need to do that. Yeah, you can do it in your house. I need to do that. I need to do that. Yeah, you can do it in your house.

Just get up in the morning, have your cup of tea. My wife comes in and finds me. I've committed suicide one day, dangling from the fucking doorframe. Thanks, Joe. Yeah, well, it won't kill you. It won't kill you. No, no. But it does feel good.

And it's the only way that I know of to really stretch your neck out that way. Yeah, yeah. No, I do need to do that. I try and do it in the sauna. Was it wrestling that did your neck as well? Yeah, for sure. For sure, yeah. In fact, I remember it.

I was going for a takedown, and I think I ended up headbutting the floor. Yeah, that's a lot of it what happens. Yeah, yeah. What was that? There was one of the fighters from Alpha Male. He shot in for a takedown, and the guy went for a guillotine uh and he he spiked himself right and then just never people do that oh never walked never walked again yeah i'm getting paralyzed no way yeah because as he shot you know he went in deep on the armpit the guy went for the guillotine so his head is trapped

and all their weight together sure you know feet up in the air the whole deal power power double yeah no of course yeah and then you got two body weights yep going on your in the air, the whole deal, power double. Yeah, no, of course, yeah. And then you've got two body weights going onto the neck as the pressure point, if you will. Derek Lewis, who has the funniest Instagram of all time for sure, put one on yesterday of a girl. I think she's dead. She twerked, and she twerked standing on her head, and then she twisted her neck, and then her whole body seized up stiff as a board. Well, I'm glad you and Derek find it funny.

I'm sure this poor woman's family is... I hope she's okay. Yeah, yeah. I really do. I hope she's okay as well. But, you know, if she's not, there's nothing you can do about it now. Well, no, there isn't, no. Yeah.

Maybe we won't take the piss out of it on the podcast. You've got to look at Derek's Instagram on a daily basis because a lot of the stuff gets taken down oh really yeah yeah i'm surprised he hasn't been banned yet you know no i think he's too popular i followed derek for a while he's awesome he's so funny he's so he really is he doesn't give a damn no doesn't care see that's the thing you know i see things people send me things. Guys from back home. I got some things this morning, but they're massively offensive. And I have a little chuckle in private.

I'm not going to put that shit on Instagram. I'm not going to put it for the whole world to see. What is this? Is he doing a movie or something? He's doing a movie, I think, but then I think somebody the other day said when John John sneezes on you, I saw somebody put that caption. Jon Jones.

He's an interesting character, huh? Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. The big comeback. It's going to be a tough fight, man. That's a big fight. That's a big fight. Gustafsson is no joke.

I love the way they size up, too. The way they match up against each other absolutely maybe that's why John struggled a little bit the first time because he's not used

to fighting somebody with the same frame the same physical attributes that make John so great Alex also has yes and what was his last fight

was it Tishera I think it was yes he looked amazing in that fight sensation his hands were so fast so fast.

So fast. The combinations he put together, they were beautiful. Really, really good. The final KO was like a video game sequence. Oh, dude, it was incredible. It really was. It really was. I mean, I think in a lot of ways,

that was like what we were looking at with Tyson Fury and Deontay Wilder. Two guys who'd never fought anybody that size before. For sure. Both fighting giants. Both fighting these really tall guys. Well, I know you had both guys on the show, and I listened to a little bit of yesterday's with Deontay when I was picking my son up from wrestling. But when I watched that fight,

I, sorry, not when I watched it, prior to the fight happening, I thought Deontay was going to win, okay? Even though Tyson's a very, very good technical boxer, and for such a big man who uses a lot of feints and a lot of misdirection, and he's very good, I thought Deontay was probably going to catch him. But then when I saw that he weighed in at 212 pounds,

I said, oh, it's over. There's no way. 212 pounds is too much of a weight disparity. It's insane. But yeah, still got that knockout power, man. Fuck. Unbelievable. He said he weighed 209 when he got into the ring.

Yeah, I heard you saying that. 209. Yeah. That's a fucking heavyweight. It's insane. Well, that's what I thought. I thought, this guy is too light. Yeah.

He's like a twig. The 6'7", 209. Crazy. It's crazy. It really is. That fucking 12th round KO, or the knockdown, that was insane.

It really was. He's got, like Teddy Atlas said it best, he goes, he's like fucking Thor with a hammer. But, I mean,

all respect and credit to Tyson Fury for getting up. Fuck. I mean, I know there was all that talk and Deontay put it on his Instagram about it not actually being

10 seconds, about it being over 10 seconds, but still, it is what it is. It might have been over 10 seconds on the clock, but the referee, it's not the fighter's job

to make sure that it's 10 seconds on the clock. It's not Tyson Fury's job to monitor a stopwatch in the corner and say, hey ref,

we're at 10. No, if he hasn't said 10 and he gets up fight's still on you know there's no telling that he couldn't have got up

on the actual 10 he probably could have gone up at the actual kind of 10 as well but just the way he got up and then managed to win the round well that's what

really impressed me I wasn't the biggest fan of Tyson Fury a few years ago I don't know we had some stupid back and forth on social media, on Twitter. What was it about? He was saying that some...

Gypsy John, whoever he is, knocked me outside a nightclub in Blackburn. But the only problem with that is, it was supposedly at the time when I was living in America. So anyway, so it didn't happen. I've never been knocked outside a nightclub in my life, but apparently, according to Tyson, it did happen. So I wasn't overly thrilled,

but I've got to say, over the last six months, or even the year, he really, really won me over. What he overcame, losing all that weight, going through that depression or slump, whatever you want to call it, and then coming back and looking so good. And then afterwards, the post-fight speech I thought was beautiful. Yeah. Donating all his money to charity. All of it.

It's just insane. He donated $10 million to charity. If you can't respect that, then you've got a serious problem. So I applaud the guy, and I'm a huge fan. Yeah, I respect the shit out of both of them. And I think that what happened with you was during his cocaine days. So he was coked up and drinking like a fucking fish. Probably.

He was probably out of his mind when he said that. Yeah, exactly. Who cares? Who cares? He went through a dark time. But what's fascinating to me is that he pulled himself out of it. Not just pulled himself out, but wants to pull other people out too sure no absolutely and again you know donating all that hard-earned money hard-earned money and you know you could have just given a

million yeah and everyone would have thought that was amazing as well that would have been a huge PR stunt but no he gave it all yeah. And that speaks volumes about the man. I mean, he even said, I don't need it. He's a gypsy. He doesn't need it. He's probably made enough money to retire already. He's had some big fights. Sure, the Klitschko fight.

Yeah, and the rematch will be even bigger. Oh, the rematch is going to be gigantic. They're talking about it somewhere April, May, June, somewhere around then. Yeah. That's going to be fucking insane. Yeah. One of the best boxing fights I've ever seen. Me as well.

Yeah. It really was incredible. I felt like it looked like Tyson was outboxing him and using a lot of feints, a lot of movement, a lot of misdirection, that perky-jerky style that he does. Well, that's what he does. Until he got caught. That's how he confuses people. But then when he got clipped and dropped I was like

oh you know I thought he was going to get caught with the left hook because I was saying because we were there was the UFC Adelaide card on at the same time

and we were at the Fox Studios and when the Fox sorry the UFC deal with Fox is up they switched to Pacific Coast PCB

Pacific Coast Boxing of which Deontay Wilder is one of their guys so in the room where we were watching watching the Adelaide card they've got the

fucking Deontay Wilder and Taz and Fury fight on now I've got to talk about the Adelaide card in detail and break it down and this and that but there's one of the

greatest heavyweight boxing fights you've ever seen in your life going on that screen over there so I'm like this watching. Like you're watching a tennis match. Yeah, it was crazy.

It was crazy. And anyway, but as I was watching it, obviously Deontay was looking for that big right hand. And Fury was doing a very, very good job of rolling away from it, just avoiding that shot. And I said, if he follows that with a left hook, he's going to catch him. And eventually that's what happened. That was exactly what it was. And he caught him as he was going down, which is even more spectacular. Because I think he clipped him with a left hook. He's going to catch him. And eventually that's what happened. That was exactly what it was. And he caught him as he was going down, which is even more spectacular. I think he clipped him with the first one.

Clipped him with the right hand, then caught him with the left hook as he was going down. And the fact that he got up after he was flat on his back, his arms were down. I think six out of ten referees would have stopped that fight right there. They would have waved it off. Oh, for sure. Yeah. No, he looked. For a moment, he looked dead. Yeah he looked dead yeah he looked out yeah sorry pardon me didn't look dead he looked he looked knocked out he looked unconscious for a few seconds yeah and then

the lights came back on i know if he came it's interesting when a when a judge or referee rather has a decision to make whether or not they decide to stop a fight and it's one of the more frustrating things ever when a referee stops a fight prematurely it's rough but then when you look at a fight like the adonis stevenson fight this weekend and i don't remember how to pronounce the russian gentleman's name it's with a gz yeah yeah the guy who knocked out so i didn't see this but the adonis is in hospital in critical condition right now correct yes yeah yes and he's gone undergone brain surgery he's got uh apparently he's got bleeding on the brain and it was uh it was a it was a good knockout

but it wasn't particularly it wasn't insanely vicious yeah so when you looked at it you didn't think right this guy's gonna have issues yeah see he sat up he got up there like he looks like he's okay and it looked like, you know. But that's the problem with boxing. Yeah. You know, I think, what is it, 12 to 15 deaths per year in boxing around the world. It's a very, very sad start. I guess, you know, I mean, you're involved with the UFC. You know all the pro MMA dialogue that's put out there.

You know, well, boxing is more dangerous because it's only punches to the head and they can take more blows, but I guess it is true. That is the thing that you can't take more blows. It is true. Yeah, for sure. The slightly bigger gloves, you can take more shots, which has a more damaging effect on the brain. American football versus rugby as well.

Rugby is a better, safer sport. Yeah, which is crazy because there's no pads, no helmets, no nothing. Right. But, yeah. But it's a better safer sport yeah which is crazy because there's no pads no helmets no nothing right but yeah but it's a better safer sport I don't know if anyone's

ever died in rugby it's not something that I hear about it's not a narrative I'm sure someone's probably died yeah no for sure exactly

it's a tough sport but I don't think it's a thing no but unfortunately I mean the poor guys you see kids at high school

there was one on the news I think a couple years ago close to where I live down here and yeah, heartbreaking. I would never let my kids play football.

My kids wanted to fight I'd say look you're going to learn how to fight correctly but if you want to play football get the fuck out of here. Yeah. It's just too many guys

running at you full clip clashing helmet to helmet. Well that's the thing because they're young kids. Yeah. They're young kids and you know I remember when I was that age

you think you're invincible excuse me. me you uh you think you're invincible and certainly then you put on this giant helmet yeah and you think you can just charge him with your head you know what i mean and unfortunately that isn't the case well we've gone over some of the most recent statistics that they've released on cte with football players and they're talking about from pop warner to high school to college to professional, the number, like across the board, the number that exhibits CTE symptoms is staggering. Right. I can only imagine.

It's the vast majority. I'm sure it is. It's crazy. It's a fucking nutty sport. Yeah. Rugby's better. It's a better sport. It's a better sport.

What, in terms of? To me, I think it's more exciting. I enjoy rugby. I used to play rugby. I used to love rugby. I was a pretty good rugby player when I was younger. But it's surprising to hear that from an American, you know. I don't watch football.

I'm an American. With the big American flag behind you and you've got the fucking. What are those? What is that? That's from Australia. A wildebeest? No, that is an Asian water buffalo from Australia. That was my next guess.

Yes. Is it the wildebeest or the Asian water buffalo? That's from me good mate Adam Greentree, who shot that sucker and brought it over for me. Nice, nice. To give me a little decoration. Yeah. But that's an invasive species in Australia. They shoot them out of helicopters.

Oh, really? They have to kill them. They don't have any other than crocodiles. Well, there's no meat or flesh on it, but if that thing had meat and flesh and bones and was running at me, I'd shit my pants. Fucking gigantic animal. Yeah, look at the size of those little horns, man. It's a huge animal.

Oh, and I can only imagine. A couple thousand pounds. Cows, they're gigantic. Well, they have cows over there that are wild. They're called scrub bulls. Right. But you know how we see a rodeo rider rides a bull, and the bull's like,

get the fuck off me, kick me crazy. Well, that's because they've got testosterone and giant balls, and they're fucking super aggressive. You never see a bull

in the wild. Dude, I used to work at a slaughterhouse. I used to slaughter 500 cows a day. The size of those fucking bulls will scare you to death.

Hammer. I wasn't looking at the cocks. I know. I'm saying their balls are like a fist. Yeah, yeah. The giant. When I was 16, I come from a small town,

and one of the local employers is the slaughterhouse. And any young loser like myself has done a stint at the slaughterhouse when they need a job, you know. And I went in, and I was squeegee muffing blood into the drains i was like what the fuck is this so i said to uh the forum and i said listen i could be of more use to you than this he said let me think about it so i went off had my break had my bacon sandwich came back and he's like yep you're right you're a good kid i'm gonna make you an apprentice slaughterman i was like holy fuck that's not what i was looking for. And talk about shocking.

Oh, I'd never seen anything like it in my life. It was insane, insane. And I'm offending all the vegans and animal lovers. I'm an animal lover big time, you know, but you've got to make ends meet when you're a kid living in a small town. Yeah, yeah. So how'd you slaughter them? Well, they line up single file,

and eventually they come into like a little cubicle like this, and you're standing above them. And as they come in, you push a button, a door drops down, and they're in this confined environment, like a big rectangle, like a big cubicle. And you're raised up, and you have this bell, and you touch the head, and then you knock it on the head.

That shoots a bolt. It falls down and falls into the wall. Then you push a button and the door slides up and the cow rolls down. So you run down the steps and as you're running down, you grab what's called a piffing rod. It's like a eight foot long flexible piece of plastic. It's in sterilized liquid. You pull that out as you run down.

Then you put your like knee on belly you put your knee on the head of the cow you feel for the hole you just made in the hair

then you get the end of the piffing rod you push it into the hole you feed it all the way in until it's all the way until it's about this much out the top of the head how long is the rod?

about 8 foot 8 foot? and you feed it all the way because it goes down the spinal column so you're pushing you're killing all the nerve endings. Whoa. Eyes are popping out of his head. The thing's fucking kicking like a maniac. You've got your knee on it. You're like, ah. Then you pull that out, put it back in the sterilized thing. You get a chain, put it around the rear foot, push a button, you up pull out your knife here to here

guts elevator doors like the shining blood everywhere next one run back upstairs next count let's go and if you're not quick they're like motherfucker let's go come on 500 a day i was such a pussy i was such a little bitch i couldn't do it i'm like fuck this fuck this i'm gonna have nightmares when i go home i did it for about two weeks and i'm like, fuck this. Fuck this. I'm going to have nightmares when I go home. I did it for about two weeks. I'm like, yeah, I'm out. I'm out. See you, buddy.

Too disturbing? Way too disturbing. And the people that work there are a little disturbed as well, you know. I would imagine you get a little twisted a couple of years in the job there. I mean, I think they were fucking with me because I was a kid. Right. You know, like, because obviously from there, then they get, you know, the chainsawed in half and they start looking like meat. Right. You know, they go up and they they get You know the chainsawed in half And they start looking like meat

Right You know they go up And they take a bite Yeah take a bite Mike It's an acquired taste You know They would eat it raw They were just doing it

To fuck with me You know what I mean Right Little 16 year old kid Went behind the ears But yeah I didn't know that They stuck a rod

Through the hole in the brain Yeah All the way through the spinal column. That's crazy. It's pretty shocking, yeah. I've never even heard of something like that. Piffing rod, that's what you call it. Wow.

I wonder if that's standard practice still today. I've seen some awful PETA slaughterhouse videos. They die quick, though. It seems like they die instantly. Very quick, yeah. You get through enough in one day. I couldn't do it now. There's no way I could do it now. but they die quick though it seems like they die instantly very quick yeah you get through nothing one day I couldn't do it now

there's no way I could do it now when you're young you know yeah your morals change as you get older your feelings

or your values change couldn't do it now what if that was the only source of meat well if it was my own source of meat then the motherfucker's dying you know what I mean

yeah but I'm not a I know you're a big hunting guy i'm not a bit well i've never been hunted in my life but if you're gonna eat it to live then then then good for you of course you know it serves a purpose yeah well i i became a hunter because of those videos which videos those pita videos of slaughterhouses oh really yeah i don't want to have any part of that oh no well exactly no no i respect that i do i'm not so much into their well i detest it trophy hunting and things like that you know i know that's it no no i'm not into it either i mean i really don't understand the desire to hunt something you're not interested in eating yeah i mean these rich

businessmen flying out to Africa and, you know, shooting a majestic beast or an elephant or a lion from a distance. There's no honor in that. There's no honor in shooting a lion even from close up.

I don't get it. Yeah, but from a distance, hiding in the bushes and pulling a fucking trigger? Yeah. You think that makes you a man? You think that, you know? The only way

that makes sense to me is if you're in a part of africa where lions are consistently killing your livestock and you have to protect your livestock which is yep colorado there's a big issue with mountain lions and sure and a lot of it wyoming there's a lot of places that have uh hunting seasons on mountain lions yeah absolutely yeah i wouldn't say there's hard and fast rules for everything. Different environments, different situations, then you need a different approach. Well, you know that Cecil the lion thing,

that whole story that went down. What happened? If you remind me, I think I know about it. I remember hearing something about it. A famous, majestic lion that was in this park, and the lion left the park and went into this area where it's legal for them to hunt, and a hunter who's a dentist from America shot this lion. And everyone became very mad at this guy because the lion had a collar on it,

which meant that there was a lion that they were tracking. The thing is, they can't see the collar when they're trying to shoot it. They have this giant mane. There's no way you're going to see the collar. Where was this dentist from? Somewhere in America. Yeah, so he's a fucking asshole yeah

you know so what it was in my territory where I'm allowed to shoot alright grey area I guess but the fact that you're

flying out to fucking Africa to shoot majestic beasts for me that's a weak excuse it is and this is coming from a guy that used to fucking kill 500 cows a day

here's where it's fucked up though for a week and I was an apprentice. I didn't really do it very often. When the backlash hit, and all these people were furious at that guy, and then no one wanted to go over there and hunt lions. So because no one wanted to go over there and hunt lions, the lion population exploded. When the lion population exploded, the undulate population,

all the antelope and all those things, dropped radically. So the wildlife biologists made an assessment that they had to kill some lions. So they killed, I think they wound up killing 200 lions and just dumping their bodies. Whereas the money would have gone for those 200 lions, they would have gotten $50,000 for each lion if a hunter had taken them. And then what they have done, they take that money and they pour it back into conservation. It's a very messy business. Sure you know and then there you go there is the the argument for it yeah but it's a tricky argument which it is a tricky argument and i

don't have the answers and i'm not educated enough to really sit here and debate it or really cast any kind of opinion on anyone really i just shooting an animal from a distance I'm not a fan of that's about it you shoot most of them from a distance you kind of have to yeah no for sure like if I shoot an elk up close

that's a real problem oh yeah no absolutely and I'm not talking about you going out and I've seen your videos on your barbecue it looks fucking delicious

I'm sure it's great I'm sure it's awesome I have no issue with that I'll cook you some please I would love to you'll eat it and you'll go holy shit I'm sure I will it. I'm sure it's awesome. I have no issue with that. I'll cook you some. Please. I would love to. You'll eat it and you'll go, holy shit.

I'm sure I will. It doesn't taste like anything else, man. I love meat. I bet you do. I'm a carnivore. You fucking savage. I'm a carnivore for sure. But yeah. Yeah.

No, you're right. The argument for it, you can make the same argument for people. Hey, we'll keep these people healthy. We'll just kill a couple of them. Well, there you go. Exactly. How about we have these really rich people

come over from Germany. They spend $100,000 and they'll kill a few poor people and the rest of the poor people, they're going to get all this money. There'll be more houses

for them all. Right now, there isn't enough accommodation for everybody to live in. Let's just cool. Just a few hundred thousand. Let them loose in the hills and we'll chase them

with bows and arrows. We'll just kill a few of these people. It's tricky. It's not good. We'll kill some of the rapists and murder them loose in the hills. We'll chase them with bows and arrows. We'll just kill a few of these people. It's tricky. You know? It's not good. We'll kill some of the rapists and murderers coming off the border. Job solved.

And then the other problem is even the animals that make sense to us. I don't think there's rapists and murderers coming off the border, by the way. Well, there's probably a couple. Let's be honest. I mean, I think there's a couple. There's a few. Most of them are just poor folks and want a better life. No, for sure.

And no shame on that. Well, you're an immigrant. My family's immigrants. Absolutely. I mean, we're all product of immigrants. Not 100 folks and want a better life. No, for sure. No shame on that. Well, you're an immigrant. My family's immigrants. Absolutely. I mean, we're all product of immigrants. Yeah, of course. Unless you're Native American, you should probably shut the fuck up. 100%.

There you go. Especially here. No, I know. That's the funny thing. I'm like, really? Here? Fucking show me a third generation American in this country. They're hard to come across.

They are. You know? Everybody I meet out here claims to be English when I meet them. Oh, yeah. My fucking auntie's English or Irish or they all claim to be Irish. You guys love to claim an Irish descent. Really? Oh, yeah.

Is this recent? Is this because of Conor McGregor? You guys fucking love to claim. My mom's Irish. My mom has an Irish accent. Okay. She fucking talks like this. her all right joe right she's irish as they come i have never once claimed to be irish there you go that's what i say to everybody they're like oh yeah i'm swiss i'm italian i'm this does

anybody in your immediate family talk with an italian accent no well shut the fuck up because you're american okay and that's okay yeah that's okay be proud of up because you're American, okay? And that's okay. Yeah. That's okay. Be proud of that. Yeah. You're not English. Just because your great-great-great-great-grandmother grew up in Ipswich or Gloucestershire or somewhere doesn't make you English, love. So your kids' kids will be American.

Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. Basically. We got green cards recently, so yeah. Oh, nice. Yeah, they will be, yeah. How does that work? You have to mind your P's and Q's.

If you get in trouble over here, they ship you back? I guess. That's tricky, right? That's one good thing about being American. Well, I'm okay. I'm okay. You know, 20 years ago, it would have been an issue. But these days, I'm fine.

I'm a gentleman. I'm a fine gentleman, Joe. Come on, man. You're a businessman. You're a fine, gated employee. you're a businessman you're a gainfully employed you're an expert commentator you've got a podcast you're doing movies

it's all over the place a lot of shit's happening yeah we're good we're good don't have to worry about you we're not hanging out in bars getting knocked out by gypsies they were the old days

you are getting into the movie business right you've been doing a few movies weren't you doing a movie during the time you were doing the Rockhold fight that's right yeah I was filming Triple X yeah yeah I've been out a few movies weren't you doing a movie during the time you were doing the rock hold fight that's right yeah i was filming triple x um yeah yeah i've been out there for

about three months and then i was flying home and i was looking for some walkie talkies for my seven-year-old uh i don't know why i thought that'd be a good idea turns out getting hold of walkie talkies isn't very easy these days i went on a fucking wild goose chairs trying to get these fucking walkie talkies that didn't even get played with he was like yeah cool I've got a phone dad

I was like yeah I should have thought of that but erm and as I'm looking for them I check Twitter I got a coffee and I see Chris Wyman and pulled out

so yeah I text Dana I said listen if this is true you know you know where I am and he was like oh great we love that

you know blah blah blah but Jackeray is our first option so I thought for a minute there I thought I was getting a title shot and I thought there's no way Jackeray is going to turn it down so I went to my buddy Jason's house and watched a basketball game and had a few drinks and you know didn't party as such I was on set the next day but I had a few drinks now if I knew I was fighting for a world belt in two weeks you know I would have been on a strict diet not overindulging but I had a few drinks now if I knew I was fighting for a world belt in two weeks you know I would have been

on a strict diet not overindulging but I definitely overindulged and then the next day I'm walking into the gym just to have you know just a little light workout

and my phone starts exploding lighting up like a Christmas tree and I'm like what the hell and then Ariel Hawane calls me he's like Mike

Dana just announced on SportsCenter that you're fighting for the belt I'm like what? what the fuck? this is the first I heard about it I'm like Mike Dana just announced on SportsCenter that you're fighting for the belt I'm like what what the fuck this is the first I heard about it

I'm like fucking Dana that's ridiculous God bless him so I'm like oh shit so I'm panicking like crazy how much did you weigh

so that's the first thing I did I ran into the changing room got on the scale I was like 215 216 is that rough

yeah for sure yeah I like to be what do you like a week before I like to be 200 What do you like? A week before, I like to be 200 pounds. So this is two weeks before, I'm 215, so I'm like,

shit, screw the weights, I need to run. So I just run out of the gym, throw my backpack on my shoulders, and just I'm sprinting through Toronto city centre like a madman. Of course,

there's traffic lights every 30 seconds, so I don't want to stop at the traffic lights because that's no good. So I'm just running out, nearly getting run over by taxis, jumping over homeless people, falling over, ducking and diving. It was great training.

And then Dana called. So I'm negotiating the fight whilst running through Toronto. And then carried on going. And then I end up in the middle of nowhere, just running and running and running. And then Jason Prillard gets on the phone and uh you know all the doubt starts creeping in I start thinking Jesus Christ this is so typical of my career I've won a title fight my whole career you know I've been through many ups and downs and now here I am I get the title fight it's on two

weeks notice I've been filming a goddamn movie I've been near near a gym, MMA gym, for a while doing anything. And it's against somebody that's already beaten me. So I'm kind of destined to fail. This is so fucking typical. And then Jason got on the phone and, you know, he talked me around big time. You know, he said a lot of very positive things. Jason's an amazing coach. He really is.

He's incredible. He really is. There's a lot of trainers out there. There's a lot of pad men. You know, there's a lot of f's a lot of trainers out there There's a lot of pad men You know There's a lot of fakers In mixed martial arts Certainly these days

You know I mean Guys that really have true Heritage In martial arts Or any kind of Steep history In combat sports They're few and far between

Yeah You know you can train Any guy can Watch a video And it's a little bit of coordination How to hold pads And you see them it's the all the craze isn't it these days hitting pads to get fit you know one two left hook woo

you know just because you can do that and hold pads doesn't make you a coach right does not make you a coach and there's a lot of fakers out there but jason is not one of them he speaks from the heart and he knows what the fuck he's talking about. And we had a good chat. And by the end of it, I was feeling a lot better. And, yeah. So when you were filming that movie, were you working out at all? I was doing vanity workouts. I like to run, certainly when I'm in the city. So I was running probably three or four days a week, a 4.2-mile run.

Not too bad. So you were doing something. So I was running, and I was lifting weights a few times a week, 4.2 mile run not too bad yeah yes so i was running and i was lifting weights a few times a week you know biceps and shoulders right you know you know what i mean yeah chest press look lots of chest press you know what i mean uh and then um gsps coach jorge blanco do you know jorge no i don't he's very very very good trainer um richard evans put me on to him whilst i was up there i went to see him like two or three times you know uh but no not not training as such but uh yeah just a little bit

of exercise but sometimes that's good anyway right so it gives your body a chance to recover well that's what i said afterwards because i went into that fight feeling so strong feeling so good i'm like because i ishh. Because I consistently over-trained every single fight in my career, apart from that one. And I said, oh, I'll learn from this. I'll learn from this. And you don't. And it's like Jason Prillo always says, it takes confidence

to take a day off to rest the body. And now, of course, there's a fine line between having the confidence to take a day off and being a lazy bastard and saying i'm gonna sit on the couch today right you know but if but if you know listen i'm good i'm gonna take a day or two off because i need it you know so that was one of the mistakes i made with my career i always trained too much and jason said you know i used to mind fuck myself because it meant so much to me. My fight career meant so much to me.

I used to overcomplicate it, overanalyze it, overwork it, stress myself out with it. And that was hindering my performances. I never once fought to my ability of what I performed in the gym, never once. I remember one day I pulled up outside Ruka and Jason was waiting for me outside and I pulled up and he says, Mike, come here. Can we have a quick chat? I said, yeah, what's up?

He said, listen, a bunch of good guys in there. Okay. He said, but you're a fucking world champion. Can you go in there and spar these guys and act like a world champion? They're here. You're up there. Act like it. Don't go in, lose your fucking temper, spaz out, stress up there act like it don't go in lose your fucking temper spaz out stress out act like a dick say things you regret you know when the sparring is not quite necessarily going your way you know you get a little pissed off or whatever you know say your jiu-jitsu coach is catching you and tapping you out a little bit and you start getting a little frustrated he said can you just you know can we have none of that, please? And great advice. Just like when I was fighting for the belt,

when I flew home from doing that movie, I went straight to the gym when I landed. And Jason said to me, because I was always stressed, you know, and he said, listen, we don't know if you're going to win this fight, Mike. You know, fingers crossed. I believe in you. I believe you're going to win this fight. But we don't know if you're going to win this fight, Mike. You know, fingers crossed. I believe in you. I believe you're going to win this fight, but we don't know if you're going to win this fight. So this might be the only time you're ever going to fight for a world title, right? I said, well,

yeah, possibly. He said, well, let's enjoy the process. You know, let's go through this with a smile on your face. He said, this is huge. He said, you're in a position that everyone would kill to be in. You're fighting for the championship. you're fighting for the championship you're fighting for the belt you've wanted this whole this your whole life enjoy this you know and it was such amazing advice because i was like yeah you're right and i went through the whole thing with a big smile on my face when you clip rockhold i remember thinking holy shit when i see rockhold's legs buckle and i see him stagger backwards i was like holy shit he got him and then when he stumbled against the cage and you bashed him and stopped him i'm gonna help but laugh because you know it does bring a smile to my face almost like i couldn't believe it it was like a like a movie

it was like it was it was one of those things because you were a big underdog coming to that fight everybody knew you took it on short notice yep everybody knew that you were working on a movie and so for you to land that when you landed. Everybody knew you took it on short notice. Everybody knew that you were working on a movie. And so for you to land that, when you landed that left hand, you missed it once before, too. And I remember thinking, man, that is fucking close. That's close. You saw this opening for that left hand.

And you clipped him over the top of the shoulder. He didn't see it coming. Bang! You dropped that left hand on his chin. And you see his eyes roll back and his legs give out. Fuck, man. Well, that was the whole plan, the left hook. Jason had seen that he was open for that, and I'd seen he was open for that.

And he was even doing this exercise on these bands, like resistance bands or whatever. He was doing this, and his chin was up, and his right hand was down at the end of it. And Jason said, he's drilling these moves here, and he's finishing here the left hook all day long and

you know he's coming forward and we're exchanging punches and nothing really significant has landed and I just right hook to the body just whip the left hook

and you know as a fighter when you land the good shot because you get the feedback on your fist there's nothing like it

you know what I mean when you feel that that solid connection and the knuckles go through the glove you know and you feel it you're like oh that was a good one and then boom he falls down i'm like holy shit hold on and then he gets back up i'm like fuck you boom back down and then uh he went down and obviously he's got very good jiu-jitsu and he was kind of sat back against the fence, and I thought, I've got to be careful not to go in his guard. But yeah, I got the finish. The best feeling I've ever felt in my life was

big John McCarthy's gigantic forearm nearly pulling my head off my shoulders as he wrestled me off him. Because you knew it was over. Because I knew it was over. It was great. What did that feel like when you knew you did it? One of the best feelings in the world. One of the best, because, you know, for me,

the amount of fights I've had is unbelievable, professionally and unprofessionally. When I was a kid, that's all I was. That was my only identity, is being a fighter, and just being that guy. Unfortunately, rightly or wrongly, that guy, you know, unfortunately, rightly or wrongly, well, it's wrongly, it's wrongly, you know, of course it is, you know, I was, I was a fucking idiot when I was a kid, I was fighting so much, but that's what I clung to, you know, I, I, I was a fighter, and that was the only thing that I could draw pride from,

you know, and, uh, being, becoming the world champion, knowing that everybody wrote me off, And becoming the world champion, knowing that everybody wrote me off, knowing that everyone talked shit about me, you know, other fighters. Just, you know, it was everywhere. I heard what people always said about me. Do you know what I mean? So to win like that in style in the first round, yeah, yeah, it felt amazing. There it is right there.

Oh, yeah, yeah. Rockhold was very upset. Yeah, he felt amazing. There it is right there. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Rockhold was very upset. Yeah, he was, yeah. You know... You talked a lot of shit to him even after you beat him. Well, hold on. My wife was behind me there and she deserves a shout-out

because if it wasn't for her, none of this would have happened. But with Rockhold, with what happened after the fight, so I... Okay, there's a few things that I regret that happened after the fight. First of all, I jump on the fence and I'm just so worked up i scoot now fuck you whatever no big deal i'm not

too concerned about that one um and then as i'm doing my like victory dance if you will i'm i i do a lap of the octagon and i cross paths with with luke pardon me and i'm like hey you know you say whatever you say you're unlucky but you know, unlucky bird, you know, good fight, whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I said that, and I carried on having my moment. I was just out of my mind on adrenaline and just having a great time. And then I found myself,

I'd done an entire lap of the octagon again, and I was passing him again. So I just thought I'd extend my courtesy one more time. I'm like, yeah, you know, and I put my hand out, and he said, I already shook your hand. I'm like, oh, really? You're still going to be a dickhead put my hand out and he said i already shook your hand i'm like oh really you're still gonna be a dickhead he's like yeah i already shook your hand so then i was like okay well now the gloves are off i said don't worry buddy you're in an octagon you've just been knocked out it's okay you'll figure it out in a minute don't worry about it you'll come to but you'll be good so i kind of looked like an asshole because people

didn't see that he would he refused to shake my hand the second time you know i was like well go fuck yourself then and then when you gave me the microphone when you gave me the microphone i said the most crude comment ever i'm like i've been fighting ever since i came out of my mother i'm like whoa that is not an image that i want to portray to the world when i win the world belt you know what i meant was ever since I've been born. But in the moment, the words escaped me a little bit, and I painted a rather disturbing image of my mother giving birth to me. But yeah, I didn't choose my words too carefully there. But yeah, no, it was great, man. Well, you can't be held accountable for that.

There's no one that's ever going to be able to understand that other than someone who wins the title. No one's going to know what that felt like it's impossible it was incredible it really was it really was

I can only imagine it was a good one it was good I'm just happy that for you you know having a chance to see all your fights

and see your career go for as long as it went that you did go out with a title that is a nice thing yeah for sure yeah you know I mean as i say uh that was for me i'm not sure well i wouldn't have retired i wouldn't have retired yet you know yeah no no because i because i i know i could still do i can

still fight now you know i can still but but the time was right you know and then i started having issues with my good eye as well after the Gastelum fight, so I'm like, you know, this isn't worth it. How was your eyes now? Because you had oil in one of your eyes protecting. Can you explain how that was going on? Yeah, so when I detached my retina, they did what's called a scleral buckle.

If you've watched the surgery, it's absolutely disgusting. But one of the things that they do, they put gas inside your eye. And I think if I'm getting this wrong, I apologize to all doctors, but it kind of helps hold the retina in place. But you can't fly with that. And I was filming a movie in England a few weeks later, and I said, you can't do that. I said, I'm filming a movie.

And they went, okay, there's another way we can do it. It's a little more unconventional. you can't do that I said I'm filming a movie and they went okay there's another way we can do it it's a little more unconventional we can put oil inside there but then with that you can fly so I'm like okay cool

do that so they did that and yeah you know it's and then it re-detached and then I got glaucoma I just had a lot of bad luck.

I did. Jesus. Whatever can go wrong with an eye, trust me, I went through it. But it looks different now. Yeah, it does, yeah. But it looks better than it looked before. It looks great. Yeah.

What did you do? It looks great. Don't worry about it, Joe. Oh, you don't want to talk about it? Okay. No, no, you're good. You're good. It's okay.

It's a corrective lens. Oh, okay. It's a corrective lens. Oh, okay. It's a corrective lens. It's a prosthetic. So can you see well out of that eye? I see a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny bit. Oh, really? Yeah.

So I don't really see out of it. And the vision's very blurred. I mean, I was able to pass the test. To be able to clear by commission to fight you gotta have 2200 vision which i was able to scrape by with the skin of my teeth you know so and my doctor was always amazed that i could still see to that amount if i if i squinted in the right direction and i turned here and the light was just right i could just about make out 2200 so uh but what happens is then then because you're seeing two different images

distorted images your brain cancels the distorted one you know so but the depth perception remains the same no depth perception is a real issue yeah yeah you know uh it was a issue throughout my last few fights for me the main thing i mean as i say you know, I was cleared medically by the doctors. And, you know, the UFC were very, very on top of all of that. The UFC, you know, sent me to a number of different doctors and whatnot. And as I say, I passed the test just. And every time I did, the doctors were like, we don't recommend that you fight. Of course. 2,200 vision.

It's still clinically blind. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but, yeah yeah there you go that's fucking crazy yeah but it never slowed me down it didn't slow you down that's what's crazy looking back now looking back now if i not that i sit there at night and get drunk and watch my old fights i've never done that once but if I ever do see some old fights back, which occasionally just happens by chance, you know, afterwards,

I'm always calling for a shot at the belt or whatever. I said to my wife, I said, what the fuck was this guy thinking? Do you know what I mean? He's out of his mind, you know? Absolutely out of his mind. But at that time, quitting and trying to not become the champion

did not even occur to me for a split second. Giving up never even occurred to me for a heartbeat. Why is that? Is this how you've always been? Is this something you've cultivated? I still felt that I could win it. Simple as that, you know.

But a lot of guys, if they had lost most of the use of one of their eyes, would have been done. Yeah, for sure. No chance. It's not worth it. no i know um and probably the smart thing to do would have would have been one of those guys but for me you know i i it meant a lot to me i wanted i wanted to become the champion

i knew i could become the champion contrary to popular belief, and this is me, it was my identity, and until I won that belt, I wasn't happy, now when I won it, my wife said she wanted me to retire, when I fought Luke in LA, she said, if you win, I want you to retire, I said, babe, if I lose, then I'll retire, okay, because fair enough, I got my title shot, you know, it didn't go my way, it is what it is, I, if I lose, then I'll retire. Okay, because fair enough. I got my title shot. You know, it didn't go my way. It is what it is. I would have had closure on that.

I said, but if I win, you're out of your fucking mind if you think I'm going to retire. Come on, I'm the champion of the world. I'm going to milk it for a little bit. Finally earned some decent paydays, you know. So, yeah, but it all worked out. Well, the big fight with GSP. Oh, yeah. That's why that took place, because it all worked out. Well, the big fight with GSP. Oh, yeah.

That's why that took place because you had that belt. Yeah, you know, I mean, George beat me fair and square that night, but there was a lot going on going into that camp. The final week, and again, I never said anything at the time because God bless George, and he's a great guy. I respect the hell out of George. I really do. How can you not you know I mean I know I talked

to all that shit leading into the fight but that was just me having a laugh you know I was literally having fun with it you know no willy willy

towards George it seemed like you were enjoying it yeah just having fun just busting balls you know what I mean I think George is incredible

I think George is the consummate professional he's an inspiration to all aspiring martial artists out there. If there's one man you can model your career on, the way he trains, the way he looks after his body,

the way he cross-trains, George St-Pierre would be that man. He's an inspiration to myself. So nothing but the greatest of respect. But people, as we said at the start of the show, that doesn't sell. People don't want to see that. People don't want to see that. So I'll play

the bad guy i've been portrayed as a bad guy my my entire career you know by the ufc the editing you know i've fallen foul to some creative editing i've fallen foul to my own mouth as well at times so you know come on you know i'm my own worst enemy as well but um the week before the fight yeah week before the fight uh i had the best training camp of my life you know uh sounds braggy but knocking out multiple sparring partners not on purpose it just i felt incredible felt absolutely incredible final sparring session we had my protein they'd flown in for a photo shoot, there was someone else there for a photo shoot, the gym's absolutely packed, and we got some guys in there sparring me,

and, you know, everybody wants to be the guy, you know, that gets the takedown or whatever, or gets the submission on the guy, that's, you know,

that's how it is, that's why I don't like going to too many MMA gyms, when I was fighting, because every time you walk in, you have a target on your back, anyway, it was the final round we'd done five rounds

it was the Friday before the fight and this guy shoots in shooting a double leg runs me all the way across the octagon like his life depended on it picked me up

slammed me down and his shoulders went right into my ribs and I felt it instantly just all the cartilage just tore completely and I just started swearing and screaming. I was like, fuck, fucking, you know, because I knew.

I knew. I went, saw a doctor and whatnot. And, yeah, it wasn't good. So I got treatment every day and I was having ice on me and all that type of stuff. But it wasn't working. So we came up with, we came up with this plan.

I was going to inject myself with lidocaine before the fight because it will numb you. But the problem is the area where it was, was you can pierce a lung where I have to go in. You can pierce a lung and bleed to death. So you turn on bleeding. Yeah. So I got this doctor and I was going to, I had the needle, I had the lidocaine and I

was going to fucking go in and sneak into the toilet and FaceTime the doctor. And he was like, okay. And anyway, the whole thing, it was just, it was just two on top. It was, it was bullshit. I was like, fuck this. This is the stupidest plan ever. Bollocks to it. I'll fight with a sore rib, a bit of adrenaline and you're not going to feel it anyway, which

I didn't on the night, you know, but people but people said oh you didn't look yourself in there you weren't moving too much i said yeah no shit i couldn't move but uh but as i said hey all credit to george god bless him he did great did you was this a sparring partner that you had sparred with regularly no he came dean i'm a singer great guy um just came in from england for the last couple of weeks so it was Dean who took you down yeah yeah I know Dean very well

you know Dean yeah yeah fucking Dean the prick I love that dude Dean what the fuck dude yeah no he's a great guy Dean's awesome he's great

yeah he's great you know it's the way it goes you're training and yeah what are you going to do fuck so many fights

that was Rafael Dos Anjos when he was supposed to fight McGregor like last round last sparring kicks an elbow elbow and breaks his foot. Oh, so that's why Diaz came in. Yeah. Ah.

Yeah, yeah. This happened to so many guys. It's such a fine line. Yeah. Because you feel good. You've trained so hard. You feel great. And you think, oh.

Like your coach will say, okay, let's call it there, guys. We're good. Call it there. And you're like, I don't know. I feel good. Come on. Let's get one good one in. will say okay let's call it there guys we're good call it there and you're like i don't know i feel good come on let's get one good one in because sometimes i normally train a spar monday wednesday friday and if the wednesday spar goes really well you're like let's end it there because you want to end on a really good spar you know what i mean because you you feel like a world champion you

feel great you know you remember how you handled all your sparring partners and and whatever good shots you landed and you didn't really take any damage that's a great that's great momentum to go into the fight with and you don't know if you have another sparring session it's going to go like that right you know you might be tired you might be worn down those guys might be on the game that day and if you get a tough sparring session well then you want to do one more because you can't go into a fight after getting your ass kicked in a sparring session. You know what I mean? That's not good karma or energy to go in there with.

So it's always a weird one. It's a fine balancing act. But, yeah, there you go. Do you, when you look back on your career, would you have done anything differently in terms of the way you prepared? Yeah, for sure. For sure. A lot of things, yeah.

Yeah, you know what I mean? Like if you had a time machine. Yeah. And you'd shoot yourself back to season three of The Ultimate Fighter. If I could do it all over again, I'd do way more things. What would you do?

Well, one, I wouldn't balloon up in between fights. Discipline between fights. You know, I didn't exercise enough of that in between fights. Yeah, a little too much, you know. These days, I look after my body way more now than when I was fighting. It's so fucking hypocritical, you know. It's so silly. Well, because now I don't have the luxury of going through a fight camp to get in shape.

Right. You know what I mean? So now I've got to stay in shape. Simple as that. Whereas in the past, I'm like, yeah, whatever. I'll have a pizza. I'll have a few beers. I'll have a dessert.

I'll eat whatever I want. And then when I'm in training camp, switch it on. But it's not good for the body. So that would be one. Yeah, many things. Many things. I don't really want to throw anyone under the bus or whatever. But yeah, there's things that would have changed.

There was a group of people that I was involved with in England for a while. Definitely wouldn't have wasted my time with those fucking assholes. Did you get clear of all that legally? No, not yet. Still going on. This Friday, there's another hearing in the courts. Jesus Christ. Lies, Joe.

Lots of lies. But this has been going on for what? Eight years? Yeah, something like that Yeah, since 2011 I remember you telling me about this When we were in England together Yeah That was a long time ago, man

It was a very long time ago Yeah, what are you going to do? There's a lot of scumbags out there People that want to take your money It's hard for young fighters too When they get contractually obligated To someone that doesn't suit them Later in their career But then they start becoming successful And when they get contractually obligated to someone that doesn't suit them later in their career

but then they start becoming successful and they're still contractually obligated to those people that they started out with it's a very common issue with fighters yeah well for me I wasn't contractually obligated I kept my mouth shut

I did my five years and moved on but they saw it a different way so they came out with some totally fabricated nonsense about camp bills going back to 2006 they

just created invoices and just just totally fabricated an entire case not a single email not a single signature nothing it's laughable that it even got this far but if you've got brass balls on you and you're willing to stick to a story and talk a lot of shit and lie you you you can you can go a long way it story and talk a lot of shit and lie you you you can you can go a long way it seems but i don't want to talk about that too much because uh i'll probably end up getting fucking sued again you thought about training fighters i would love to yeah i really would love to because i feel this was one of my issues as i was a coach sorry pardon me as a fighter because

believe it or not I retired at 39 years old and at the time I'd had the most fights in the UFC and whatever believe it or not I know a thing or two about how to prepare for a mixed martial arts fight so that was one of my conflicting things always with my coaches

not that I didn't respect them but I would always kind of feel maybe I should be doing this or should be doing that. And that's what I would do a lot of the time. I was kind of like the head coach. I mean, Jason Prillo was probably the head coach, but I would be the one that did the program. I need to work on this. I'll see that guy on that day. So, yeah, I would love to.

I would love to. Right now, I've got a lot of things going on and and life is good so i don't really have the time to dedicate myself to it right and actually i'm kind of enjoying just well i'm still working for the ufc doing that you know the fight coverage stuff but it's enjoyable to be doing something different you know after being submerged in it totally submerged for so long it's refreshing to be doing something different. After being submerged in it, totally submerged for so long, it's refreshing to be doing something else. But one day I would love to, for sure.

Well, you're seeing it with fighters. There's some of them that are making those transitions into training. And who better to know what it's like to prepare for a fight than someone like yourself who had so many fights in the UFC. I mean, it's almost like that knowledge and experience is almost wasted or at least the experience of how to prepare kind of goes away if you don't pass it on. Because otherwise someone has to go through all the stuff you've been through to learn it. Yeah, absolutely, Joe.

And that's partly why I do want to do that. When the time comes, as I i say it wouldn't be fair to anybody right now because i haven't got the time to commit right i'm working on some things and hopefully they all come off and uh i've got some free time i can sit on my ass you know everyone's always like oh congrats on the retirement i'm like fucking retirement i'm working harder than ever these days you know maybe i need to come out of retirement to get some free time back you know uh but um when the time comes i would love to do that that is the best case scenario though your situation because you you've retired into a very profitable career whereas there's a lot

of fighters they're lost when it's over they don't know what to do always scared me yeah always scared good for you good for you for thinking. It terrified me right from day one. So I left school at 16, you know, no education like a fucking idiot. That's one of my big regrets in life. Small town boy, you know, northwest of England, not a lot going on there. Beautiful little town, but, you know, tiny little town. Not a lot of opportunity and just fell into a rut, you know, working minimum wage in factories you know from

seven in the morning till six o'clock at night just doing mundane medial shit you know and and i hated it i hated it i really did and that's why i became a fighter ultimately and it was a very well-planned decision you know the whole the whole story to me coming to do this was it didn't happen overnight. You know, there was steps to it. What was your first discipline? I started doing Japanese Jiu-Jitsu

when I was eight years old and I was obsessed with it. So that's how you knew how to clear the sword. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was obsessed with Japanese Jiu-Jitsu when I was a kid. It's great.

I was doing, see, we didn't know it was MMA back then, but we were fighting MMA. We called it Knockdown Sport Budo. If you Google it, you can bring it up. You can bring up some of my fights. Knockdown Sport Budo.

Yeah, which is MMA, bare knuckle. And we have like these international tournaments against, you know, men. I was about 15, something like that at the time. But yeah, so we do tons of that stuff. When I was younger, you know, I was, as I say, obsessed with martial arts and pretty much won every single tournament I ever went in. And then on top of that, I was a little shit out and about as well.

So I was having plenty of fight experience. And then, as I say, just dead-end job after dead-end job after dead-end job. And I got to a phase in my life. I met my wife, Rebecca, and we had kids. I was like, is this it? Is this all that life is going to be? And then my boss at work at the time, Mick, he said to me, mate, you're a pretty intelligent guy.

Is this what you want to do for the rest of your life? And I'm like, fuck no. He's like, oh, here we go. Here's one of them. This is wild. This is like some Fight Club shit fight club i mean even the the seedy dark looking background the weird lighting this is like a scene in the movie came out through fire he walked through fire you walked through fire to get here oh jesus you did yeah yeah

actual fire oh it looks like smoke and lights yeah there's another one actually which is true to my uh scoot ahead on this. This is wild the way you guys are dressed and everything. Yeah. I to this day think that fights should be held in this sort of a scenario where there's a large open air place like

a basketball court. Yeah. I just feel like the cage is such a factor in fights. No, it really is. It really is and it allows i mean you can use the there's one more on there if you can find it jamie which is pretty funny joel got a good laugh out and so will everybody else because i guess the early michael bisping was on display we bow at each other and i kick him in the face right off the bat but you know the referee had said fight yeah the cage you can use it

as a you know it's another weapon you can stall on it you can lean on it you can use it to stand up it's a factor

it's a huge factor in the UFC and in the mixed martial arts and it's hard to see sometimes if you're in the crowd and you got a post there

and these guys are brawling you wind up looking at the screens yeah no absolutely you do I was having me and Lewis on are brawling, you wind up looking at the screens. Yeah, no, absolutely you do. I was having me and Lewis on one of our episodes recently. He was saying,

you know, usually when I'm front row at the fight, I'm like, hold on a minute. When have you ever been front row at the fight for one? Because he was saying, I prefer the first riser. I'm like, okay,

well, that's what everyone says, that they can't get front row tickets. You always say, oh, I'd rather be on the first riser because you haven't got to get a sore neck looking up. I said, well, guess what? When you're front row, it's fucking cool. You can hear the punches. You can see the blood and the sweat.

If the first riser was good, I'd be doing commentary from there. If the first riser was great, that's where all the celebrities watch this. Look at this. Oh, Jesus Christ. That was fine, in my opinion. He said, fight.

What is he wearing? He's wearing wrestling shoes? Yeah. Wow. The old head scissors, classic. There is a video on flow grappling from a recent jiu-jitsu tournament where a guy got a guy on a head scissors to put him to sleep. Right, yeah.

Right from his guard. Yeah, well, I won a couple of shitty grappling tournaments. With a head scissors? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It fucking works, man. Yeah, if you can squeeze hard enough. It wasn't against the best competition, though. The guy might have been 55 or something.

It's still legit, though. Yeah, if you get the knees on the right part of the neck and squeeze like a bitch, it hurts. And especially if you practice it. I feel like the head scissors is something like, look, think about when you're cinching a darts, right? Or when you go under

for a darts and you clamp a hold of your hands and you pinch down. Some guys are expert at that, right? Oh, absolutely. They develop that sick squeeze, that sick clamp down.

If you just constantly drill that all the time, you could fuck people up with that. Just get better at it. Just get better at it. Like anything else. You could,

but I don't want to be the guy going for a head scissors in the UFC and everyone's like, fucking Bisman with his British wrestling. Look at him doing a head scissors. It's like the women

going for the head and arm. You know, in women's MMA, you try a head and arm as a man, they're going to take you back and choke you out. Simple as that.

But yeah, women's MMA. Well, Ronda Rousey and Liz Karmouche. Ronda's thing was always get that headlock and then hip toss, get a girl to the ground, and then get her in an arm bar. Why does that work on women, but not men? Neck strength, probably.

Yeah, but their heads and necks are even smaller, so they can slide out of it easier. You know what I mean? I don't think it really works. I think what we saw in the Ronda Rousey fight with Liz Karmouche, Liz Karmouche took her back and almost choked her out. Yeah. And if Liz was the Liz of today, she probably would have choked her out. Sure.

She just wasn't quite experienced enough at the time. I think the reason why you're seeing it more in women's MMA is because although the level is very high with Valentina Shevchenko and Jacek and Cyborg, the level of the champions is very high. There's still the lower levels nowhere near. You could watch a guy on an undercard that's fighting on Fight Pass who's a fucking world-class demon in the UFC. Sure. He's a man. The women, you're still – there's way less of them, and the competition is strong.

Yeah, I mean, they haven't been doing it as long. The talent pool isn't as big. Women aren't as interested in it. I was just about to say the percentage of men interested in pursuing martial arts and mixed martial arts, as opposed to the percentage of women, way lower. Right. I don't know what the percentage is of men. If we said it's 50 just for the sake of the argument, women, it's going to be 5%.

Yeah, if that. If that. It's 5% probably men. If my wife said, Michael, I'm going to start training because I want to be an MMA fighter, I'd say, pack your bags, get out.

I'd say, shut the hell up. Make me a sandwich. What are you talking about? Come on. Fucking, you're going to be an MMA fighter, are you? Watching the mother of your children get head kicked? It's crazy. So my Thai boxing coach, actually, you mentioned Vinny Shorman at the start.

He used to be in business with Vinny. Daz Morris, very, very good friend of mine. He was my Thai boxing coach. Shout out to Vinny Shorman. Shout out to Daz Morris. That's him. And his girlfriend, he was cornering the mother of his children. She was a Thai boxer, Cassie.

And shout out Cassie, no disrespect. But to be cornering your loved one, that you're in a relationship, and she got knocked out cold in a Thai boxing fight. I was like, wow, Daz, how do you do that? And the mental strength to understand that this is a different relationship she's the student

and the teacher and this is just the way it is I mean that takes a lot I don't think I can do that it's incredible well it takes a different kind of woman

to want to do that right that kind of woman you got I mean the worst thing I think you could ever do is take a woman who wants to fight and tell her no

sure yeah because she's going to find a way. If you're dating Valentina Shevchenko. Well, good luck with that. Good luck with that. Good luck with that one. You're going to get spinning kicks to the midsection, to the balls. Okay?

She's a fucking monster, isn't she? She's great. She's awesome. She has one of the quickest spinning back kicks I've ever seen. So fast. There's not too many. And I say this with the greatest of respect to women's mixed martial arts

and I respect everybody that applies themselves and is willing to get off a couch and make something of their life so you know

I'm not being overly judgmental but there isn't too many that I really get excited for and that

really thoroughly enjoy watching you know because as we just said the level of skill isn't quite there yet. As I say, it's nothing to do with genders. Why do I want to see a watered-down product?

If I can see these guys doing it at such an extreme level, I don't really want to watch smaller people that can't hit as hard with lesser technique. You know what I mean? As I say, nothing to do with gender. But obviously, there's a few exceptions to the rule. And Shevchenko, Jan Jacek, Amanda Nunes, Cyborg. There's definitely amazing talent out there.

There really is. It's just a smaller pool. It's a smaller pool. Like that fight this weekend was sensational. Jan Jacek and Valentina. That was a very, very high-level fight. Oh, it really was. It really was, yeah.

And Jan Jacek impressed me because he had a, I think it was a tough three rounds, very high level fight oh it really was excellent it really was yeah yeah and young jake impressed me you know because she had a i think it was a tough three rounds fourth round you know uh she probably might have edged that fourth round you know so it's impressive that she uh still had the fight in her so late in the fight is just too strong too big good of a grappler and yeah yeah and bigger physically bigger like you see her back, her traps, everything. You can see it. When they're against each other, Janjacek's very slim, very slender, and Shevchenko has muscle on her.

Well, Shevchenko was successful at 135. That's a big gap between 35 and 115 where Janjacek was champion. And the reason Janjacek went up to 125 is because she couldn't get her belt back at 115. And I say that with the absolute greatest of respect. Well, a lot of it was the weight cut was crushing her. And then she didn't have to cut weight for 125. But on the flip side, you're fighting a bigger, stronger woman than Valentina. No, exactly.

If she was fighting another strawweight, went up to 125, maybe things would be different. But that was always, on paper, a bad matchup. Yes, I agree. In my opinion. Yeah, it went down the way I thought it was going bad matchup. Yes, I agree. In my opinion. Yeah, it went down the way I thought it was going to go down. Yeah, same here. There's a lot of fights. But the main event, man, the main event was one of those fights where I was like,

I don't know. I don't know. Max and Ortega, yeah. I was like, if Max, if it goes to the ground and Max gets caught up in something, I mean, Ortega's got the nastiest fucking submissions in that featherweight division. No, for sure. Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I didn't know.

I mean, as I said, I favored Max. I thought Max was going to do it. I did as well. There's just something about Brian Ortega. I mean, just looking at him, he looks like a fucking killer. Yeah. You know what I mean? And he's big for the division.

He's calm. He has that presence, you know? I don't know. He has just a look on his face that wants to snap your neck off at a moment's notice. He's going to learn. He's going to learn from that fight. Of course. There's a lot going on in that fight to learn from in terms of his movement,

in terms of just trying to handle Max's barrage and the pressure that he puts on you. Well, he's only young, so that should be a massive motivator for him. Because when you go away and you win fights, it's great. There's no better feeling than winning fights. And I'm telling you this like you don't know, but you know this. But when you're winning fights, it's great. And you go away and you don't really change anything because everything's going good.

But when you lose, then you're like, okay, shit. I don't want to make a habit of this. Was he undefeated? I think he was. Undefeated, that was his first loss. So now he's going to say, what can i do to to ensure that i don't start getting more losses you know he wants to be the champion like my first loss was to rashad evans and then i remember on the day um day of the weigh-in he was uh sat in the sauna

killing himself doing his usual thing and the team that i was with that shall remain nameless back then they all wanted to eat chinese food so i was like trying to order the most healthiest thing in the chinese restaurant that i could so i was eat eating noodles and drinking fucking sprite you know on the day of the weigh-in jesus christ because because when i was at 205 i didn't cut weight at all you know so i remember um you know and i still weighed in. Another time when I fought Elvis Siniseck, well back in the day, it was my first fight in Manchester, and I was getting tickets for everybody. You know, loving it really, loving the attention.

It was my first time, you know what I mean? Yeah, I'll get your tickets. Talk about a fucking pain in the ass. A pain in the ass? Tickets is a pain in the ass. Oh, my God, because you've got to get the money off the people. Then you've got to get the ticket. Then you've got to do the transaction.

This is day of the fight, you know what I mean mean i remember being on my knees day of the fight with hundreds of tickets and cash everywhere i'm like oh my god why did i do this oh no sorry it was the day of the way in part of me okay anyway and i was so stressed out with it and i drove home i thought i'll sleep in my own bed night before there night before so it was the night before the way pardon me i'm driving home and I was so stressed out and I was hungry. I hadn't eaten all day because I forgot. I was too stressed.

And as I'm driving along the freeway, I don't really eat Burger King, but I saw the sign for Burger King and I was starving. I thought, fuck it. So I pull off and I get a triple Whopper with cheese and bacon, fries and a large Coke. And I'm sitting there and you know the noise that it makes when you get to the bottom. That sound. As it went, what am I doing?

I'm fucking waiting in tomorrow. Holy shit. Because I'm so stressed out with the goddamn tickets I forgot all about it. So I'm like, crap.

So fortunately, I just stepped on the scale. No problem. And with Rashad Evans, same thing. I just stepped on the scale. So after that, I was like,

okay, what can I change? Well, I'm not making the sacrifices I could be, you know, to be as successful as possible. So that was,

you know, moved down to middleweight. And Ortega, you know, he's not going to drop weight. He doesn't need to. No, he doesn't need to.

He can work on some things, you know, he can learn. Simple as that. Yeah, he most certainly can. I mean, he's got tremendous jiu-jitsu, and his boxing is very good as well.

But, you know, when you experience that kind of a fighter, when you experience that kind of a champion like Max Holloway, you understand that there's areas where you're exposed. There's areas where you have holes, and you have areas where you can't compete with him as successfully as you have been with previous fighters. So it's a learning experience, and I'm sure he'll be better because of it. I would say because of the third round

than yet, you know, he certainly made it competitive in the third round. He landed a couple of good shots. Because I was going to say you know, in some circumstances, it doesn't matter. You can go away and work your ass off. You're never going to beat that guy. You know what I mean? All the work, all the coaches, spend all the money,

dedicate your fucking life, go live in a monastery in fucking China, do whatever you want. You're never going to beat that guy. But in the third round, he kept him honest. He landed some good shots. So I wouldn't say that's necessarily applicable. But he's certainly got to do some work in the striking department. Yeah, in the striking department,

and I'm sure in the wrestling department as well. Sure. He got him down briefly, but Max did a fantastic job of stuffing it, getting back up to his feet, retaining. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I don't want to speak out of turn. I did find it somewhat curious.

Is it Henna Gracie? Yes. Henna Gracie giving him the boxing advice in the corner yeah I found that somewhat curious yeah you know

when I when I had my fights Jason Perillo if the fight was on the feet he was giving the instructions when the fight hit the floor Brady Fink took over yeah

you know and if there was elements you know they knew their elements in the corner you know he'd say his bit boom you go

you know no disrespect to Henna Gracie he's done amazing things with Brian Ortega by everything I see online, you know. Congratulations, you know. But when you're getting outstruck, I don't really want advice from a jiu-jitsu coach. Right.

No, that's a good point. That's a very good point. You know, it's interesting. Like, you had a great situation with Jason Perillo and the other coaches that you worked with, and sometimes a young fighter needs like a mastermind, right? You need like a Matt Hume or a Firas Zahabi, someone who could put it all together for you, a John Crouch.

You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. And I was also going to say, and this is probably, well, by all accounts, it is what Henner is to Orte or take a mentor as well yes it does seem like he's his mentor so for that you know maybe i shouldn't have quite said it in the words that i did use you know what i mean it seems like that is his mentor his father figure whatever it is so there's a reason why he is there but for sure bring on an expert you know in those areas a specialist you know yeah it's uh you know it's a it's a crazy world the

world of fights in mixed martial arts you know i mean as i said there's a lot of there's a lot of fakes there's a lot of that and there's a lot of it works good now but then when you fight a world class fighter you realize why why there was holes in that yeah you'll find out pretty quick yeah you know when you got a coach that's never now you don't have to have real life combat experience to be a good coach but it helps it certainly helps and it helps the fighter really trust the advice that they're giving you yeah yeah for a fighter to be standing there telling you to throw combinations have you ever been in there you ever experienced what it's like to have another guy trying to take your head off

every time and you're going to talk shit to me? Did you see the Mike Perry video? No. Platinum Mike Perry. No, I know who Mike Perry is. It's a great video. What did he do? People telling him when you're fighting and the coach is like, go, go, go, go, go.

He's like, I'm not trying to get fucking hit right now. Yeah, exactly. That's what it is. It's a great video too. No, I know. Mike, he's an intense guy and he's talking about it. He's like, we're faking, we're faking, we're fainting. We're trying to make our way in, but no one wants to make a move

because no one wants to get clipped first. Yeah, well, I remember, you know, I mean, when I fought Rashard Evans, it wasn't the most action-packed fight. And when I watched it back, I was like, fuck. Why did I just go for it a little bit more? And then I'm like, oh, because I remember. Because every time I took a step forward, I felt the wind of the punches nearly taking my head off.

When you sit, even myself, when you sit and watch, you're like, why aren't I doing more? I remember because every time I took a step forward, I felt the wind of the punches nearly taking my head off. When you sit, even myself, when you sit and watch, you're like, why aren't I doing more? Then you take yourself back to when you were in there, and you're like, ah, yeah, that was why. That was why. It's such a tricky situation, and the fight game evolves. The styles evolve, and the way guys pursue fights evolves. It's really interesting to watch.

You see a guy like Mighty Mouse who does things different than anybody else, and you go, oh, well, look at how this motherfucker does it. Yeah, not for sure. It's a sport where, I mean, you were incredibly fortunate in that you got to not just be there when it was exploding, but you got to be a part of the explosion. Sure. You know, I mean.

Agreed. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean. So 2006, you were in the Ultimate Fighter? Yeah, 2005. I flew out. It was December 2005. Yeah, yeah.

Crazy, right? Crazy, man. It really was. It really was. It was good times. That's when it was just popping. Oh, yeah. I remember when the Ultimate Fighter first came out It really was. It was good times. That's when it was just popping. Oh, yeah. I remember when The Ultimate Fighter first came out,

and it was on Bravo TV in England. Well, same as here. And I said to my wife, I was like, check this out. And she's like, I can't watch it. I'm like, why is it? Because if you were on there, you'd win the thing. So I don't want to watch it. It's not fair, Michael.

You should be on there. And then, lo and behold, about six months later, they were looking for two Englishmen. And we went down to Earl's Court for auditions, and the great thing was, at that time I was 10-0, I was the cage race champion, cage warriors champion, and FX3 champion, as well as the British heavyweight kickboxing champion as well, and everyone that was auditioning

for the light heavyweight, I'd knocked them all out in the first round. Of course, you know, true to my style, I made Dana fully aware of that, but yeah, it was crazy, man. I couldn't believe it. them all out in the first round of course you know true to my style i made you know dana fully aware of that but uh yeah it was crazy man i couldn't believe it you know it was nuts i'd never been to america next minute i'm on some fucking reality tv show in a mansion in las vegas you know it was it was a great time it was it really was what was it like being separated from your family for six weeks and doing that show and very hard very difficult of course but i was there for a

reason you know and so i was the greater good you know i said yeah of course it sucks it sucks being away it sucks missing time missing birthdays all that type of stuff but if you're doing it for a reason then then you know you just got to be mature about it my wife always was the kids understand you know yeah it's not good being away from home, but I'm working on something here. You know? Trying to set us up. Come on. Do me a favor.

Understand, you know? Well, it worked out. Yeah, they were always great, you know? Yeah, it worked out. It did. It did. No regrets. I mean, maybe a few.

Maybe a few. Yeah, but you know what, man? There's no way to not have them. Yeah. I mean, there's no perfect path. That's one of the crazy things about fighting. You zig when you should have zagged, you get hit. That's it.

That's part of the game. That really is the sport. It's such a cliché thing to say, so many ways to win and lose. But there really is. And as you say, you zig when you should have zagged, the smaller gloves, the takedowns. That's the problem. When you're fighting a wrestler, it's such a pain in the ass

you know because I'm a better striker than most of these wrestlers but when they're trying to take you down it changes everything because you go out

and you're like okay this motherfucker's just trying to take me down that's all he's trying to do so I'm going to stand there and I'm going to wait for him to shoot

and then I'm going to stuff his takedown because I'm waiting for a takedown I'm not thinking about the hands and then doosh then you get caught with a shot you're like what the fuck you're supposed to be going for a takedown. Because I'm waiting for a takedown, I'm not thinking about the hands, and then, doosh, then you get caught with a shot.

You're like, what the fuck? You're supposed to be going for a takedown, not punching me in the face. And then all of a sudden, your striking's terrible, because you're totally thrown off by the wrestling. So it's a very,

very difficult sport. It really is. Another one of your most impressive victories was the second fight with Dan Henderson, because you got hit with some fucking bombs in that fight, but you refused to go out. Yeah. You refused to be stopped in that fight.

Yeah, you know, I mean. That was a display of willpower in a lot of ways because I remember watching those big shots from Henderson land, and, I mean, they were on the edge. I mean, you were on the edge going out. Oh, for sure. Absolutely. I mean, I remember on the edge. I mean, you were on the edge going out. Oh, for sure. Absolutely. I mean, I remember he hit me.

I went down. He was swarming on me, hit me with some elbows. But I remember I was always fine, but I was like, holy shit. You know, that was what hit me there. And then I managed to get myself back to my feet and had blood pouring out of my face and whatnot. Of course, second round, the same thing happened. And he had two big moments in the fight, two big shots,

but they were big moments. But you don't win a 25-minute fight by landing two shots, you know. But they were big shots, fair play to him. But, you know, I refused to quit there because, you know, obviously going into that fight I talked a bit of shit, like always. And you can lie to everybody. You can lie to the media. You can lie to the press.

You can lie to your family. Lie to your coaches. It's not necessarily lies, but you can ooze bravado and this and that. But you can't lie to yourself. When you're led in bed at night and your head's on the cushion, you can't bullshit yourself. And day of the fight, because the fight was at 6 in the morning, day of the fight, I'm led on my bed trying to just have a nap because it was going to be a long night obviously and uh i couldn't sleep and all i was thinking human nature last time i stepped

into an octagon with this guy i was fucking out cold for a long time my brain was scrambled eggs for a long time after that fight and uh as i say you can lie to everybody else but now the fight was getting close and it's in my hometown and it's my first title defense and all this i'm like shit shit i know i'm better than this guy but fuck last time last time didn't end well so i was uh getting a little worked up and i remember i was at the arena and i was kind of you know being a little edgy a little snappy with people and there's no need for it and then i just stopped i started laughing and pretty much said what's were you laughing at i said well what's the worst that's gonna happen if i lose what's the worst i'm gonna

lose a fight it's happened before so why am i stressing myself out of it and i just started laughing and after that i was fine but uh yeah yeah no it was uh i definitely uh had a sore face the next day after that one for sure yeah but you you know you got through the fire yeah no i did and i felt great the only problem was in the fifth round because this cheekbone and swall it was on my good side he shattered the cheek cheekbone on my good side, and it swelled up so much. I could hardly see out of that eye. This eye's fucked as well.

So in the fifth round, I'm trying to get a certain angle where I could even see the guy. Do you know what I mean? It was a nightmare. But yeah, got the job done, fortunately. Is there anything that is on the horizon in terms of medical science that you're looking at in terms of being able to fix your eyes? Not that I know of. I spoke to doctors about it, you know, because I was...

Yeah, I was always curious what could be done, but I don't think in my lifetime there is but the reason i retired was the gastelum fight because i was cleared to fight and the doctors were always like we don't really advise it but you are cleared you've passed the test just by the skin of your teeth and for me that was all well and good you gotta do your medical the most stressful part of all of that was when you you you got to go do a full training camp now, then fly somewhere and you're going to see another doctor, a commissioned doctor at the weigh-in, right? And you don't know what this doctor is going to be like. You don't know if

he knows anything about eyes. You don't know if he wants to be a hero. You don't know if he wants to make fucking press, the guy that pulled the main event. Do you know what I mean? Very, very stressful time. So for me, the fight was always the easy part the hard part was just fucking making it to the octagon and i go to the weigh-ins and i get cleared i was like the feeling was like okay we're good the fight's on because i didn't know the fight was on until i got past the commission doctor how many different fights did you have to go through like that about i think about 12 something like 12 eyebrows. I'm not sure if it was 12, something like that. Hold on. Belcher, Cungley.

No, Belcher, Tim Kennedy, Cungley, Rockhold, CB, Teller's Lighters, Anderson Silva, Luke Rockhold, Dan Henderson, GSP, Gastelum. 11 fights. 11, yeah, yeah. So that was stressful. And then, obviously, you know, So that was stressful. And then obviously I lost the belt. In my mind I'd retired.

I just hadn't made it formal yet. And I was driving out for lunch with my wife and my in-laws. They were in town. And we heard on SiriusXM Fight Club, the Luke Thomas show. He was talking about Anderson Silva testing positive for steroids. And they needed a replacement. And I said, shall I do it? And they were like, what were you talking about Anderson Silver testing positive steroids and they needed a replacement

and I said shall I do it and they were like what were you talking about so I text Dana right then and there

and a week later I'm on a plane to Shanghai no training I hadn't done anything no training

well I mean I trained as soon as I found out about that I sparred a few times and then got on

a plane and went out there and yeah God bless him. He got me. But then after the fight, because, you know, as I said, you know, I was clear to fight, but the doctors always said, we don't recommend it because if anything happens to your good eye,

you're going to be in a real problem. And I was like, well, so many fighters in the UFC have long careers and they don't get detached retinas. Okay. It's a very, not they don't get detached retinas. Okay? It's a very, not rare, but it's pretty rare. Pretty rare. You don't hear about it too much. So I'm thinking, okay, well, the lightning's already struck.

Okay, lightning isn't going to strike twice. You know what I mean? I'm not that fucking unlucky. Anyway, so we have the Gastelum fight, and then we go to an after party in Shanghai. I'm in some club, and I'm in the club, and every time I look that way, and it still does it to this day, every time I look that way, like a bolt of lightning, like a flash.

You see it right now when you do that? Yeah, yeah. What do you see? It's an arch flash. Like someone's taking a picture? Yeah, yeah. And I was in this club, and every time I'm looking, it's doing that, and I start freaking out because I know, you know,

I've got a history of symptoms with eye problems and whatever and I start telling myself, I don't believe this. I've got a detached retina in my good eye and I'm freaking out and I don't want to be in a nightclub around a bunch of fucking dickheads anyway

all drinking. I hate nightclubs. So I said, I'm just going to go to the toilet and restroom and I wasn't. I was leaving, you know, I'm just going to go to the toilet, and, uh, restroom, and, uh,

I wasn't, I was leaving, you know, but I just wanted to be by myself, and I left there, and shed a little tear in the taxi, I didn't want to be sat in a fucking nightclub crying, because if people see me crying,

they're going to be like, oh, he's crying because Blessing Me lost a fight to Gastelum, I was like, no, I'm not crying because I lost a fight to Gastelum, I'm crying because I might be going fucking blind here, you know what I mean? Yeah.

So, uh, so I jump in the taxi. I go back to my hotel. And then later on, Parillo and a few guys came back to see if I was okay. And, you know, whatever. We just carried on talking and having a few drinks in the room and forgot all about it. And, you know, I turned into a bit of a messy one in Shanghai.

Forgot all about my eye. And the next thing, I'm on a plane flying home. And I'd forgotten all about it. I fall asleep on the plane i wake up halfway home probably flying over the pacific somewhere the plane's pitch black and then i open my eye and it starts doing it again i'm like shit because i've forgotten all about it so i'm trying to get on wi-fi on the plane trying to find something about it trying to google it what it could be and all the rest of it and the wi-fi wouldn't work and i'm going up and i'm trying to beg the air hostess you know please please i need to get on wi-fi i need i have to i didn't tell her why and she said no it's down right now i'm like oh fuck anyway so i land i call my eye doctor

straight away i tell him i said listen i think i've got a detached retina in my good eye why do you say that i tell him the story he says He says, don't worry, don't worry. You know, you'll be okay. So I go see an eye doctor the next day. And he says, well, I tell him the issue. He says, why do you say that? And I tell him why. I said, so do you think it's a detached retina?

He says, well, it certainly sounds like one. I'm like, fuck me. He says, okay, we're going to put some drops in your eyes. Everything's going to go blurry. And I only see a tiny bit out of this eye i'm like oh i may i make a stupid joke as my defense mechanism i'm like oh i guess i better get used to this view eh haha and the doctor's like well we don't know that just yet and i'm like fuck me do you know that's not the answer i was expecting anyway turns out didn't have a detached retina I had a partial vitreous detachment. So you have your cornea here, your retina at the back, and in between what's called vitreous fluid,

and millions of fibers connect to the retina to send the message, I think. If I'm getting it wrong, I'm sorry, doctors. And in your 60s, that just slides off the retina and detaches naturally. Maybe in your 60s, 70s, who knows? But as you get older through old age, it just slides off the retina and detaches naturally maybe in your 60s, 70s, who knows but as you get older through old age it just slides off it can detach due to trauma so that's what happened to me but it had partially detached but the problem was

when these fibres are pulling they can cause the retina to tear so they were like well we need to keep an eye on this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So anyway, long story short, after that, I thought, fuck this. It ain't worth it.

And have they done anything to the eye sense? No. There's nothing to be done. There's nothing to be done. Nothing can be done. No, yeah, and they're fine with it. They're happy with it. It's okay.

But for me, it was a step too far yeah i pushed it as far as i you know i was willing to push in fact i'm a liar i was uh supposed to fight richard in london earlier this year but uh we couldn't you know agree on the deal terms with the ufc if i never materialized and i was flying up to up to New York to do my podcast with Lewis. And on the plane, I'm watching this movie called The Journeyman. And it's Paddy Considine. It's about a boxer who's a world champion. And at the end of it, he wins the fight,

and then he has severe brain damage. And it's a very, very sad movie. You should check it out. It's really, really powerful. Very, very good. Anyway, I watched that, and I thought, that's it. I'm done. That was what did it?

That was it. So I got off the plane. We started our podcast. I said, boom, I've got an announcement. That's it. Over. Good for you. It was the best decision I ever made.

You know, I've been very, very happy ever since. Yeah, I mean, you have options. I mean, you had a long, great career. You have options. Yeah. I mean, as I i say no regrets you know i mean um it was a wonderful ride i i loved it i i never thought a young kid doing martial arts and and you know a guy that just liked to have a scrap when he was a kid could take it this

far and that's the beautiful thing about the ufc these days you know if you're of that certain mindset that certain character, you like a bit of rough and tumble, you don't mind getting a punch in the face here and there, and you're willing to go for it, you can make a living. You can make it, you know, when I was younger, I used to do a lot of professional kickboxing, but I never looked at it as a career because it wasn't back then. But now it's great, you know, it really is a career, a viable career. Well, especially for a guy like you who's a good talker, who understands how to break fights down and you can make this transition.

It's one of the things that I really like about the UFC. They've allowed these fighters. I do a lot of commentary now with Paul Felder and Daniel Cormier, Dominic Cruz, and they've given these guys these options. It's great. As I was saying before, but that was one of the things that scared me as well as a kid because you're in gyms all over the world and you see amazing talent everywhere.

Amazing talent. And, you know, they're sleeping in the cars or they're sleeping on a couch at someone's friend's house, you know, and they're struggling to pay the bills and they're driving a shitty beat-up piece's house, you know, and they're struggling to pay the bills and they're driving a shitty, beat-up piece of shit, you know. And it's a shame. And I see them and my heart goes out to them. And for whatever reason, they don't get the brakes.

They don't look right. They can't put it together on fine night. The nerves get the better of them. Who knows what it is? But they just don't make it, you know. And fighting is such a cruel, vicious sport. It really is. So that's why when people, I get asked all the time,

do you want your son to do it? I'm like, well, no, not really. The way I see it, I fought so he doesn't have to. But if he wants to, he's the number four ranked wrestler in California. I've seen the videos. He's a beast. He's a beast. If he wanted to, of course I'll support him.

My father supported me ridiculously. If it wasn't for my father, I wouldn't be here either. But I wouldn't wish it on him. I wouldn't wish the life of a fighter on anybody because it's so unpredictable. And just because you're good and just because you can take a punch and just because you're an animal in there doesn't mean you're going to be a success. It's going to be the perfect storm. What I tell young fighters is when they say,

I'm thinking about trying MMA, I go, don't do it. Yeah. If you're thinking about it, don't do it. If you tell me you're obsessed with it and you want to be a world champion, then I say, go ahead. Sure, absolutely. Give it a chance. But if you're not obsessed, there's some motherfuckers out there

that are living it 24-7 all day long. Oh, for sure. And this is a thing. You see a lot of young fighters now. They're obsessed with the image. You know what I mean? Because it's on TV. It's cool.

And it's got a lot of popularity now. So a lot of people want to do it. As I say, there's pretenders and coaches. There's pretenders and fighters as well. A lot of people, you know, they want to be Conor McGregor. They want to be Chuck Liddell or whatever. And they're all fucking wearing tapas and having mohawks and stuff. Do you know what I mean?

And they're talking about, oh, for this camp, I'm going to bring in this guy. Fucking camp. You don't have training camps at the start of your career. At the start of your career, you train Monday to Friday. You have a fight at the weekend. If you win, you're back in the gym fucking Monday. You know what I mean?

You fight every few weeks. When I was starting, I think I had six fights in the first year probably five kickboxing fights you're trying to build momentum you're not doing camps I don't want to hear any young fighter saying to me for this camp I'm focusing on my wrestling it's like shut the fuck up you've had two amateur fights you're not doing a training camp buddy you're training that's it you know You know? Yeah, for sure. Well, listen, Mike, thanks for doing this,

man. My pleasure. And we could do it again anytime you'd like. Yeah, no, no. Tell everybody about your podcast

with Luis Gomez. Shout out to Luis. Yeah, absolutely. Big shout out, Luis. I think he's listing. Hilarious guy.

Oh, hilarious. Absolutely hilarious. Believe You Me. iTunes. Oh, all that shit. YouTube.

Yeah, YouTube on there. Michael Bisping podcast or Believe You Me podcast. iTunes, all that shit YouTube is it YouTube as well yeah YouTube on there Michael Bisping podcast or Believe You Me podcast iTunes all that crap check it out or don't you know

couldn't give a fuck if you like it if you like what I've said for the last hour or two check it out if not kiss my ass thank you brother appreciate it man

thank you Michael Bisping ladies and gentlemen