The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #59 with Kamaru Usman

Episode Date: March 18, 2019

Joe is joined by UFC Welterweight Champion Kamaru Usman

and we're live what's up how are you what's up joe dude you're a roller coaster ride what is it like to be the champ oh what's the feeling like this is fresh for you oh well first of all i just want to say man it's such an honor to be here. The honor's mine. I never, I'm going to be honest. My thing is I'm just going to be 100% totally transparent. I was never, I never really watched the show. I never really kind of heard of the show.

Of course, I heard of you and all the things you do. I'm like, oh, yeah, it's Fairfactor guy. But I never really heard of the show until after a fight or two in the UFC and people are tagging me and shit. Joe Rogan's talking about you. Joe Rogan talking about you on podcast. I'm like, fucking podcast? Because I never listened to podcasts at the time.

I was like, what are you talking about? Until I finally started listening. I'm like, oh, this dude is for real. This dude got some pull. He got some people watching this shit. Random people would tag me. Oh, Joe was talking about you today on the podcast. I'm like, oh, man, this guy's for real.

And then every time after that that I see you, I'm like, what's up, Joe? Yeah, we've been talking about you for a long time, man. We were just with your friend out there. We were watching a video of us talking about you back when you were ranked number 12th. And I was saying, I think you could fight for the title right now. Yeah, man. And I like to attest it to. I think because I went back once I started kind of researching, I like to go back and do a little research.

And I'm like, fucking Joe's been with this sport for the beginning. Like you were in the back with hair. 97. I'm like, fucking, Joe's been with this sport for the beginning. Like, you were in the back with hair. 97, yeah. With hair, freaking interviewing the guys that were doing the tournament that were fighting multiple fights at night, and you were interviewing those guys. And I was like, even back then, Joe had skills. Joe was a beast at interviewing these guys.

There was no shaking behind it because, you know, one thing about about me i've gotten into commentating and things like that now and i'm like dang joe it didn't seem nervous you were just like a freaking natural at it and the sport was just growing at that time i was like there was nobody watching back then it wasn't as much pressure you know it wasn't like coming into it today yeah espn pay-per-view all that deal it would be a lot of pressure but back then it was just fun yeah it was it was weird man the first one i did was in dothan alabama and it's weird like i don't know if it was a high school gym or something some small auditorium tiny little place it was very weird they have you made it look like a freaking certain little walk in the park i mean it was i was like damn joe's good at that

joe's been doing this shit for a while well it's uh it's an interesting thing to see you know to see it progress from 1997 to where it's at in 2019 the biggest difference is not just uh the amount of eyes that it gets and the amount of people that are paying attention to the real difference is the level of athlete it's a it's a giant giant leap like in no other sport i don't think there's another sport from 1993 to 2019 where the athletes are almost it's almost unrecognizable how much better the fighters are absolutely um you know it's now back in the day it was okay, you finished your college career. You finished all this. You've got to the height of whatever sport you could be.

Let's start fighting. And so guys were coming in at 28, 27, starting to learn the tricks. Now you got freaking 10-year-old kids sparring. There's all these crazy videos of little bitty kids fighting in Russia or other places. They're full-on MMA fighting now. Yeah, it's a totally different world. It's like, yeah, whole promotion. I'm like, by the time these guys get to 16, 17, they're going to be killers.

Yeah, if you go back and watch a boxing match from like 93, a world champion boxer like Marvin Hagler, perfect example, Marvin Hagler from the 80s Could absolutely hang with middleweights Like he would fit right in with world champions today Absolutely But a UFC champ from 93 I mean, God, it's just not the same It's not by any stretch

It is such a Back then it was wild, it was crazy But nobody had endurance There was a few guys that had some skill and certainly Orlando V or Hoyce Gracie. There was guys who were really good at their individual arts, but there was no real complete fighters yet. Yeah, you got the transition because it was everyone came in with their special skills. And that was the big thing. I think UFC even sold that as, oh, yeah, you got the wrestler fighting the combo, the sambo guy and the jiu-jitsu guy. So that was the thing.

Everyone came in with their one skill, and they put it to the test to see which skill was better. It's freaking crazy, Joe. My first fight, first time I ever watched a UFC fight, fight i was visiting john jones in college freshman year this was our our freshman year true freshman year i was visiting him because i went to a a small school university which was about two hours away from him he was at iowa central in fort dodge iowa so i went to go spend my fall break a whole week with him just hanging out because we had met the previous year in high school and just, you know, it was two brothers wrestling.

It was like, hey, two brothers, what's up, man? Where you going to school next year? He's like, I'm being Iowa. I was like, yo, me too. And so we kept in touch, and I went up to hang out with him, and during that week, I was a fight on. Like a friend of the team, something like that, invited us to come to his house and watch it.

And we went over there to watch the fights. I had never really heard of it. I never really cared. I was just a freshman just trying to hang out with John and party. What year was this around? This was 2005. 2005. Yeah, 2005.

So it was like first season of The Ultimate Fighter. Yeah, 2005. So we go, I think it might have been randy couture or someone john just reminded but i forgot who was fighting and we went to the house party and watched it i really didn't really remember the fight i because i didn't really care i never paid attention to it i never thought i would ever do something like that so i just watched it and and then i remember the guy saying hey man you guys do this. Why don't you guys try this? And I was like,

me and John kind of looked at each other like, hell no, ain't no way we're going to do that shit. Wrestling is controlled. There's rules. Certain things you can or can't do. There's no way we're doing that. So we kind of laughed it off

and left that day. Never knew that freaking years later I'd be doing this, doing this for him. Not just doing it. You dethroned the guy who many people, including me, were saying is a very good argument for the best welterweight ever. I felt like Tyron is like, you got to give it, there's like two, there's legendary status, right? There's like, Matt Hughes has legendary status for being the original. He was one of the first wrestlers who really knew how to submit guys and then george st pierre was of course many people's eyes the greatest of all time in the welterweight division went on this long run

but i was like man when you if tyron beats usman i was like there's a real good argument for him being number one of all time beating wonder boy Wonderboy, smashing Darren Till, beating Damian Maia, knocking out Robbie Lawler to win the title. Absolutely. I considered him. I put him in that conversation. Yeah, he's in that conversation for sure. For sure, I put him in that conversation.

I, you know, nothing but respect for Tyron. It was nice to see afterwards. There's a video of you and tyrant's mom and tyrant and tyrant's mom after it is a beautiful video yeah man it's a tearjerker i i freaking i i let it go because i'm one of those guys i never really sit and stop and smell the roses and things like that i always i always have a chip on my shoulder and i'll explain why that is but i i always had this chip on my shoulder with everything that I do. So I never really sit and celebrate and say, oh, yeah, I accomplished this or I did that or did that.

But I had known I known his mom. I met her previously to that the fights. I fought in St. Louis one time. And of course, I'd seen her several times at his fights. But I was fighting in St. Louis and I was there early and she was at the hotel. Tyron wasn't fighting or anything, but she just came to the hotel. I think she was just hanging out and I got to sit with her before like all the fighters even came into town. I had to sit with her. I think we sat for a couple of hours, maybe three, four hours just talking. I got to know her and she was she was just such an

angel but at the same time she's she's a gangsta too like you can't you can't you know she she was everything and the only thing the biggest thing i could compare her to is if you ever seen that show for way back it's called touch by an angel and i forget what her name is she's like the famous like black actress and um do you remember that woman's name adele i forget her name what is it it was mayangelo it was it no it wasn't mayangelo it was that like i mean she was mayangelo status how big as she was and inspirational but that's kind of what i compare her to and so we got we got you, I knew her and Tyron obviously wasn't who I would have chosen

to take the belt from, but is how long can you hold yourself back? Because being a champion, there's a huge, and Tyron said himself, there's a huge difference

between being a challenger and a champion. And of course, I needed to have my family in that argument. I need to get them to that status to where now I'm setting my daughter up. I'm setting everyone up for life, better life forever. And I couldn't continue to hold that back.

So, yeah, it was unfortunate that I had to take that from him. And I kind of, in a sense, I felt like I was taken away from what he was doing for them. So when I saw her walking backstage i just couldn't control it i just let him i just let go and i just can't help but cry on her shoulders this is a great it's a great video what is her name was woman's actress is roma downey yeah yeah that's her the video is amazing because she's hugging you and she's telling you congratulations and she's telling you that they're coming they're going to be coming for you so train hard yeah yeah and just like her attitude man it's it's

beautiful man it's it's amazing her character that she handled that i mean this is her baby her baby just lost and lost every round and it was a you know pretty dominant victory by you and for her to treat you that way afterwards just shows amazing character. Yeah. There it is right here. You can see it up here. Look at her. She just embraces you, open arms.

It's all good. It's all good, baby. Look at that. It's all good, honey. Rest your heart. It's all good. Amazing. It's your turn.

It ain't his time. It's your time that's an amazing woman right there and keep on working because it's gonna come for you and you take it to it it's all good wow that's amazing man yeah and even tyrant the way tyrant handles it's crazy right it makes me cry something in the air over here what's going on made me cry when I saw it. It's making me cry now. Yeah, man.

And the way she treated Tyron too, the same thing. I mean, she's just. And that's kind of, that's how my mom is too. So I felt such a connection to that, to her, because my mom is the exact same way. My mom would have done the same thing to Tyron. And it just just it was powerful man it was moving and because it's and it goes to attest to how how the sport has how big

this sport is as well yeah like it's not oh man that's just a regular fight you guys hate each other and you're fighting no this was a competition yeah you know this was two men that went in there for a competition And one guy won And you know And you saw The aftermath To see the family Receive each other

People love that man They love When people put All that bullshit aside I mean you guys Had a lot of Trash talk At the press conferences

And there was a lot Of that going on But that sells tickets And it's good for everybody And it's It's natural and normal But after it was over It was Nothing but respect And it's good for everybody And it's It's natural and normal But after it was over It was

Nothing but respect And It's what a lot of people think Is Wrong About the trash talk Of this era Because

There's This is There's an era right now Right We're in the trash talk era Absolutely And some people are really good at it And some people are terrible at it

But it seems like everybody's trying I mean Masvidal Recently When he just beat Darren Till It was very interesting Because people are terrible at it but it seems like everybody's trying i mean mas vidal um recently when he just beat darren till it was very interesting because you know his take on it before the fight was why am i why why trash talk like what are we doing what do we you know why we're gonna fight like what is all this bullshit about like he doesn't like it he was like i don't like where this is going i don't like where the sport is going. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things that I had to adjust to because I wasn't brought on those principles.

I'm not. You're competitive. Yeah. I wasn't here for a salesman. People ask me all the time, why do you do this? And I chose to do this. I'm college educated. I can get a fucking job and sit in an office and punch numbers and all that.

But I chose to do this because of my burning desire to compete. That's what when I, even now, when I compete with guys, I'm not competing angry. I don't want to kill this guy. I'm not rah, rah, rah and all that shit. No, it's competition for me. My mind is I'm going to beat you. And which is partially, which goes to attest to how i fight and how i compete i'm not like that this is not the only thing that i can do and so

this era came about where now everybody you got to talk shit you got to sell you got to do this and do that and so do you feel any pressure to do that initially at some point i did because it was um i was fighting the way i was fighting i was dominating guys and i was getting nowhere right it was like no notoriety they were kind of like just kind of putting you on the wayside they would always tell me oh you get a top 10 guy you'll get a top 10 guy but it wouldn't happen it was like oh you fight this guy and you can't really argue with them because this promotion is giving you the opportunity to even really make money at all for the career path that you chose so for a while i just felt like man this is not i guess i just got to do this because you saw it the other clown covington

he had to do that he absolutely had nothing has changed with the way that he fights he's done the exact same thing since he'd been in the ufc but after the first couple fight no one gave a shit so he felt you know what now i'm just gonna have to start doing this right everyone knows it's fake right because he just one day woke up and started doing it and that's that's the thing now you have to do people try to say you have to do that but for me is what i'm not gonna do is i'm not gonna just sell my soul just to oh yeah i'm just trying to earn a couple bucks because i'm not gonna do that i'm gonna do it the right way george did it the right way and i'm a firm believer that when you do it the right way you will earn what you deserve it will come to you at some point i don't think that

you have to i really don't yeah something i mean kobe covington does because that dude freaking sucks he showed but look you got to give it to him he did beat those anjos that was a big victory he did beat damian maya that was a big victory those are those are two legit victories over two very dangerous guys he did beat those guys yes absolutely he's got skill on top of the trash talking but the trash talking bumped him ahead of you in line. And a lot of us were surprised. I was surprised. I was surprised.

I mean, he had to do it. And, I mean, it's gotten him where he has. And, I mean, look what he did two weeks ago when I fought. His whole deal was for me to create an uproar to get my name back in the picture. And he did a wonderful job this is one thing that i will i will i would say is that he has done a wonderful job at having people talk about him whether you hate him which and even the bosses have said the exact same thing is no one has done what he's done no one has ever created the persona that is unanimously hated worldwide like unanimously

there's not even a heel like literally like those guys who they still had fans you know that wanted to see him succeed like nobody like he's not safe anywhere no you know you don't even have to be there's flyweights that want to hurt this guy you know so it's unanimously has he's done a good job of creating that which i love and i appreciate that it's gonna sell a lot of pay-per-views when you guys fight yeah i'm not a hater i'm not a hater like i give credit where credit is due i appreciate the fact that he has done that and that's one thing that rashad taught me over the years is that you have to appreciate certain things like that And I do I always wanted this moment. I always wanted that

Connor and could be that that that adversary that Rashad and rampage that Hughes and George St. Pierre like I always wanted that and and he's done a good job of creating that so Not just an adversary in terms of like a legitimate worthy opponent, but a dude that you want to fuck up. Absolutely. Freaking literally. I mean, I haven't been in a fight yet where it was like malicious. Like I was maliciously trying to hurt someone. Right.

I haven't been in that fight yet. Yes, I don't. That's the thing about me is my mind. My mind is strong. I don't compete. Oh, yeah, I'm trying to kill this guy. And then you swing five punches. You miss. Now you're dead tired. I don't. That's the thing about me is my mind. My mind is strong. I don't compete. Oh, yeah, I'm trying to kill this guy. And then you swing five punches. You miss.

Now you're dead tired. I don't compete like that. This one, I'm still going to compete as myself. But there's going to be a letter extra behind these elbows now. I'm going to fillet your face with the little longer cuts. I'm trying to. This one is going to be one that I really enjoy. Well, there was the same with

khabib and connor when he said i want to change your face yes when he said that i was like damn that's deep i want to change your face and you saw that even when khabib was like that it is um khabib was never out of character khabib never was like oh yeah i'm just gonna go out there and try to kill this guy right there's a certain level there's a certain mentality that certain fighters have to have and khabib is another guy that i've seen that competes similarly to the way that i do as far as his mind where it's at like i don't give a shit what you do talk about me do all this try to distract me like they tried me this will come leading up to the tyrant fight they did everything what are you gonna do and then you had his little sidekick that looked like Sideshow Bob that was talking and doing this, trying to distract me in this.

And then Colby popped up trying to distract me. That didn't change anything. That's not going to do nothing to me. My mind is on competing. I'm going to compete to the best of my abilities. And I'm going to embarrass you. And then this guy is going to be even more worth it. The big change in your skill set from your first fight in the UFC

to now is your striking. Your wrestling has always been outstanding. Your cardio has always been excellent. But your striking is much more fluid and much looser. You're much more efficient now. You were always powerful. But it seems like now Everything's falling together

Like you don't have any holes in your game anymore It's a different thing Yeah, Joe I've been with my same team since the start The same guys that I've been with You know, Glenn Robinson started our gym Unfortunately, he passed away You know, rest in peace to Glenn

When did he die? I didn't even know he passed away He died last last year yeah he died last year i didn't even know yeah he had a heart attack man and um it was sad i couldn't really believe that it happened you know but it did and i like to say he's in a better place you know but um he passed and he was he started all this you know him and rashad evans rashad needed a new place when he was leaving jackson all this you know him and Rashad Evans Rashad needed a new place when he was leaving Jackson's and uh right and Glenn was kind of like they they got together and decided to to start this and it's Rashad Evans at the top of the game who doesn't want to train with Rashad Evans right and so it kind of spread like wildfire to where everyone started

going down there but yeah I've been with the same. Henry Hooft just came down at that time. Henry Hooft was a striking coach. I've been with him since. He's a phenomenal coach too. Amazing coach. Such a good striking coach. Those Dutch fundamentals. I mean, that guy's got it down.

Yeah. And a lot of, you know, I've seen a lot of different coaches, different styles. You know, I like a lot of different things. but the thing with Henry is he's very basic. Because at the end of the day, when you're fucking tired and you can't even hold your arms up and do certain things, you're just going to do basic, regular shit. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Two, one, two.

That's what you're going to do. No, he's going to keep it simple, stupid. Yeah. He's very like that. He keeps it simple. And that was a way for me to learn it. It's just from the, from the bottom up.

I just, I learned it now. I don't get it wrong, Joe. I can do some of that cool shit. Like in practice, I'll do a cartwheel kicks. I'll do the,

all that cool shit. I can do that. Yeah. That reverse loop, front side, side Taekwondo kick i can do all that shit i can try it you know do you think ever about like moments in fights there are moments in fights where a fighter will do something the best example is chris weidman versus luke rockhold chris weidman

tries this wheel kick out of nowhere, and he misses with it. Luke gets a hold of him, drags him to the ground, and beats the shit out of him. And Luke has a nasty top game. Absolutely. His top game is crushing, and he's just ruthless ground and pound, and it changed the course of Chris's career in a lot of ways. That beating, I mean, he lost the title,

and then he lost other fights afterwards but before that he was dominating he had beaten anderson twice he crushed vitor he was a different thing and that it just there's these moments these pivotal moments and fights when someone just tries something i mean most of the time you just get away with it yeah but sometimes like and that is my go-to when I tell people, don't try some shit that's not your thing. This is the best example. Chris Weidman throwing that wheel kick against Luke Rockhold.

Yeah, and that's part of everything that's grouped in with fight IQ. You have to be able to assess risk, reward, and certain things like that. And that's kind of, at some point, it was a knock on a knock on me it's like oh this guy never gets out of position he never does any other cool shit or any of that you know it's kind of who's giving you that knock fucking people you can't listen come to me i know joe yeah i listen to you perfect yeah like i was saying a long time ago it's like this guy's not fucking up yeah like he keeps running through guys and he's beating guys like a world champion already yeah a lot of people

always kind of you know like oh he didn't do all this he's not doing all that but the thing with me is is being able to assess when I can do that

when I can't do that like when I fought RDA I threw a freaking axe kick in the fifth round right you know and I was

I practiced that in practice I catch guys with it all the time and it's just being able to assess you had him you already had him yeah i knew that there was you know this is an opportunity for me to start letting go yeah and so i started letting go and i mean rda is a tough tough dude very tough tough dude he's a tweener hard head he seems like he's a tweener to me like he's not quite a 170 i mean he could beat a lot of guys at 170 but it's almost like he should be like 160 or 165 yeah but 155 is too hard of a cut for him these days yeah but the thing is that's that's just that's nature yeah because if we if we started saying okay we're

gonna accommodate everybody it's never going to stop. Do you think there should be more weight classes? Well, you don't care. I don't care. 170 works for you. It's still a hard cut. Is it? What do you walk around at?

190. 180, 88 to 190. Believe it or not, like for most people that are listening to this, that's on the light side. Yeah. No, absolutely. I know it is. But the thing is, I'm so lean and I'm 180 or not like for most people that are listening to this that's on the light side yeah no absolutely i know it is but the thing is i'm so lean and i'm 180 and i'm walking around below six percent

who do you oh wow who do you use to cut to for weight um for the last couple of fights man i've been working with uh clint clint wickberg up at the pi and trifecta yeah and trifecta a lot yeah and clint man trifecta food system trifecta they essentially you know the meal delivery meal prep stuff okay and they they do a phenomenal job phenomenal and clint the reason i chose to go with him is i've always did it by myself i like to cook i cook for myself i always you know when all those fights earlier fights in the ufc every one of my fights i was in charge of my own diet. I cook for myself.

I do this. Because I've done it so many years in wrestling all the wrong way. I can look at myself. I can wake up in the morning, look at myself in the mirror, and tell how much I weigh. And I'll be right on. Just because I'm so used to my body. So I know what I can or I can't eat what can hold food what can hold water and it's just it's a discipline thing for me as well and so i so i decided you know what i'm getting

higher up now one thing that i don't understand is that i haven't done the research is is what foods to eat before a certain practice at certain times to feel me the best to make me help help me feel the best because i'm getting older and things aren't the same they use the way they used to be i'm 31 and i'm gonna be 32 in may and i'm like man i just don't feel what differences have you noticed a lot of difference yeah like at 24 i just fucking wake up at 6 a.m and i can go for a freaking five mile run like that with nothing now i can't do that anymore do you think that is age or do you think that is miles like all the hard training it's a combination because 31 you're

in your athletic prime yeah it's a combination of both because in wrestling years i i gotta be in the late 40s i mean he's wrestling years i'm late for it i mean back is a shot my you know my shoulders are shot my knee my knees oh my god my knees i've had five knee surgeries jesus christ yeah i saw you limping did you have one recently i just had surgery actually um i had surgery on tuesday oh that's a hernia right i had a double hernia jesus so did you fight with a double hernia i tore it before i like five weeks before the fight and um but i don't know if it was completely off you had a hernia and a broken foot for that fight that is fucking crazy the funny thing is and ali makes fun of me about this my manager is uh like all fight week like if you saw me you would think

this guy was like a zombie like i i limp around i freaking light game patches on me, and I'm in a boot or sleeve. And all I do all day is I go do the media rounds or whatever I need to do, train and come back, and I'm just in my room, either game ready on me or something on me. But when I walk through that door to fight, the Nigerian nightmare wakes up. I flip the switch. And a lot of people, if they go back and look at videos, when I walk into the cage, I step right before the cage, I say my prayer for protection.

And when I walk in, I just freaking flip that switch. Do you have a prayer that you say every time? Yeah. You have the exact same thing? Yeah. What do you say? Similar along those lines. I basically just a prayer for protection, prayer for me to be able to display the best of

my abilities. It's never, because I'm not selfish. I'm not getting in that prayer, please let me win. No, it's please protect me in here so I can go back to my family safe and sound and protect my opponent as well and give me the strength to be able to display the best of my abilities. And that's it. And once I freaking walk through that door, I'm the freaking Nigerian nightmare. I just, that's it. You feel like a different person when you walk onto the cage? I am.

And you see it in my face. I'm good and dandy, but when I walk in, it goes away. I transform into that person. Yeah, I think a lot of people would be surprised at how friendly and easygoing you are outside people can't tell and that's the thing now is there's really i haven't i don't there's no change in me i'm still the same freaking guy i since i haven't done anything since the fight nothing people are like asking me have you gone on party and this and that with the bell no i, I haven't done shit. Do you sleep with it?

No, my daughter. I brought it for my daughter. My daughter did. But I didn't. I didn't do anything. I just sit on the couch, watch TV, go back, maybe go to the shop that I like to take my daughter to get French toast. She loves this one place.

So I take her there, come back, that's it. Or maybe take her to a date night. The only difference is now a lot of people are starting to recognize me more. So I'm walking out of the movies, people will stop me. Hey, can I get a picture? Can I get a picture? Yeah, of course. But nothing changed.

I'm the same freaking guy. I haven't got a chance to do anything. I had surgery last Tuesday. I've been in bed for weeks, so I haven't done anything. But I don't think anything is going to change. I'm the same guy. Well, you sound like you have the perfect attitude like the idea that you're having making a prayer to just do your best and not be hurt and not have your opponent hurt and protect you and your opponent that's that is a beautiful attitude and the fact that the way you're approaching this

i mean you're just you're just here to compete and to do your very best although you you're free of the burden of a lot of bullshit that some people carry around with them joe and i was thinking about this on the way up is um a lot of a lot of those fighters a lot of those champions like after a while you you they feel this certain pressure yeah to to be able to do this or that. And some of the examples that I gave is there's so much pressure on Anderson Silver. I almost felt like he couldn't wait to lose. It's like a pressure the way you just want to put it down.

Imagine you said that to me when BJ Penn beat him. Yeah. You said there was just so much pressure. Is that actually honestly relieved? And I feel like it was so much pressure. George St-Pierre ran away from the sport because of that pressure. Yeah. He said there was just so much pressure. You just want to get out of it. And I feel like it was so much pressure. George St-Pierre ran away from the sport because of that pressure. Yeah. You know, for me, I don't feel shit.

I was just thinking, I was like, I don't care. Like, look at this fight now. They're coming to fight. Everyone's already bringing, making a big deal out of it. It's another fight for me. I don't even think of myself as, oh, you're the champion the champion i don't care i just want to beat this guy up do you think that you will care though when the media obligations and all that shit happens or do you think you'll just be able to zen your way through all that shit um i would be lying to say i would never

care i would be i would i think that would be doing an injustice. But I feel like I go to certain people. Like I have some of my go-to people that I get to. I call them my mental coaches. And like Rashad, the biggest thing that I learned, I talked to Rashad about is Rashad was always pouring into me. Like, man, just enjoy, man. Enjoy the ride. You'll be okay with that feeling.

Because there was a certain time where I was a little more nervous than usual i was i was nervous for what one i think i can't remember the fight and i was nervous and which i was like man just make friends with that feeling be okay with it make friends with the feeling of being like understand that it's okay to feel that way yeah just be okay with it. And so I go back to those feelings. And even there was an exercise when I was wrestling. I was living at the Olympic training center and I was training. And I started feeling all this pressure that a lot of people put on me. Oh, you're a Division II guy.

You can't be Olympic champion. You can't do this. You can't do that. And my coach at the time, Brendan Slay, was like, yeah, a lot of people put that pressure on me when I was competing too and said that, oh, you're too short. You can't beat these guys. You can't beat Bovesa Satie, the most famous Russian wrestler of all time. And they were saying, you can't beat him.

You can't do this. You can't do that. And he said one exercise he used to do is he'll think of all these negative thoughts because people start saying it, and your your mind it goes into your mind you know especially now when all these fans tweet shit and say stuff to you you read it yeah if you read it it's in there and so one thing he said you should do is just put all those thoughts in a just imagine this envision this glass jar you just put them all in the jar shut Shut the lid, grab a big sledgehammer, and you just smash it. And it sounds silly, but I was like, oh.

It wasn't until a little while after I started kind of doing that. So when I started doubting myself, man, can I do it? Can I do it? Oh, man, this guy, he can beat me. I mean, what if he knocks me out and embarrasses me in front of everyone? Then I'm like, snap the fuck out of it, man. Put it in that jar. Put it in that jar and smash it.

I'm like, have fun with it, man. You're supposed to feel like this. Rashad said you're supposed to feel like this. Yeah, man. Yeah, and I just take a deep breath. I smile, and I just snap back in. And Eddie Alvarez also is someone I consider a brother. These are the guys that I go to for when I'm starting to feel down.

And I talked to Eddie quite a few times before this last fight. When I start feeling a little bit of pressure, I talk to them. And they just kind of snap me back. Were you getting frustrated that you weren't being considered amongst the top contenders when you were undefeated, you were dominating all these people, and you were seeing, like, were dominating all these people and you were seeing like when the when wonder boy got two shots and then you know you saw the damian maya fight and these all these other fights was that was that hard for you yeah it was it was a time where

i'm not gonna lie joe i was like why the fuck am i doing this i'm you i'm gonna keep fighting for 25 and 25 30 and 30 right what what the thing is what a lot of people don't understand is they think oh man it's that 15 minutes that you're out there or that 25 minutes you're out there training and fighting and that's it you know you got paid 10 and 10 bro you just did i just did a five month training camp to where i had to eat right for five months for twenty thousand dollars yes if you were if you win and on top of it it's that's society so backwards nowadays to eat clean food is more expensive so for me to just eat clean for five months i'm already five ten grand in the hole on top of it you got bills coming every month that's not going anywhere yeah you know that just to train for these fights

i've spent more than that and you have taken more damage than that because that's when you really take damage i'm sparring and when i fractured my foot that happened the last week in training my last sparring session i kicked someone in the face. Boom, my foot's gone. How bad was the foot? It was bad. At first, I just figured, you know, it's like Muay Thai. You kick shins and elbows all the time, and you get the little fractures.

But that, you know, you work on it, and that's gone in a week. But this one just wasn't going away. The swelling kept coming back and coming back. So I started freaking out. I'm like, oh, shit, I think I really broke something. And so I started freaking out, and then a day or two, three days, four days, I get it worked on. I have a really special compression socks that I have on at all times,

and I'm icing this thing four times a day, and it's not going away. I'd wake up, the swelling would be bigger. I'm like, oh, man, I did damage. And then I kept walking on it and I haven't because I have to practice because I gotta keep that weight down I gotta keep that metabolism going

and so I'm just like man there's no way I'm not fighting like you only get an opportunity once if I call and say I'm pulling out of this I might not ever get a shot again

right and so I'm like I'm gonna fight and there was no doubt in my mind wants if i call and say i'm pulling out of this i might not ever get a shot again right and so i'm like i'm gonna fight and there was no doubt in my mind of what i could do i i was just it's gonna happen i'm already dealing with the hernia situation and and so i'm like screw it and and think about me is i haven't ran in three years joe i have your knees yeah my knees are so bad i have not ran how the fuck do you have such good cardio what are you doing for cardio i everything i do i do freaking hard i guess i do it

freaking hard i'm on that air diet and and man shout out to my strength and conditioning coach dr cory peacock man he's also on it too i mean doc cory is uh we put in we put in some time man and it's not just him. It's my coaches. Greg Jones, when we wrestle, I wrestle freaking hard. And I can't do it often anymore, but I wrestle hard. Because you need? Yeah. When I hit pads, I hit pads hard with Henry.

Everything that I do, in my mind, I try to do it at the speed that I would want to do it in a fight. Or even greater. Because my whole mentality is, when you get tired, when people when people get tired that's your threshold that's where you're at so that's why your body feels like that oh I'm tired this is as far as I can go I try to get to that as fast as possible boom because then everything after that is extra right I just push push that conditioning more and more and more so I I just freaking go hard. Everything that I do, I do it hard. Of course, I do it smart, but I do it hard. But I haven't ran, Joe, in almost three years.

That is crazy because one of the most impressive things about the fight is you never let your foot off the gas. And in the fourth round, I think it was, when you had Tyron hurt and you really started pouring it on, I was like, okay, he's trying to finish this fight. How much gas is he going to have left in the tank? Because you know that sometimes when someone tries to finish someone and they can't, they're done.

You poured it on. You took a couple of deep breaths, then right back on him. I'm like, damn, that's some serious fucking cardio. Because you were sprinting. In my mind, I watched that back. I was like, what the fuck was I doing? I was swinging like wild wild man just because

I saw the light at the end of the tunnel yeah and I was like you know and I'm it's like I was sprinting towards it

but then it caught me getting dimmer and dimmer I was like oh shit fucking slow down Tyron's tough as fuck you're still gonna get there

man he was tough he's tough as fuck he ate some big shots and people didn't really see it what happened what started that transition we were in the clinch I had him in the tie clinch and i think he was trying to work on my body and i hit him with the knee i hit him with another knee and in my mind i just remember some of the trainings that i've been through i've been in that situation in training and i used to train

with uh cosmo alexandra more tight guy yeah freaking amazing and one thing that he would show me is how more tight guys would sneak in elbows and so i i'm in there and i'm like i'm tyrant's not really getting out of this so i'm like freaking let me try it and this elbow that you throw it's a sideways elbow and i'm in there i throw a knee in and i just do the sideways elbow and it doesn't look hard throw a knee in and i just threw the sideways elbow and it doesn't look hard it doesn't look crazy or anything like that but it was like side of the head and i just felt it land and i'm i'm trying to because you got to read fast so i'm trying to read him i'm trying to assess him i'm like is he hurt because he kind of stumbled back

but tyron has a very good poker face so he has this nonchalant face on. And I'm trying to read him. I'm like, wait, wait. So I kind of fake, a little fake at him to see if he's trying to set me up for a big shot. And I fake. He doesn't throw anything. He keeps hands up. I'm like, oh, shit.

So I throw a jab and I throw a right hand. I threw it across his guard to hit him. And he really didn't look the look didn't change. It didn't look like he was out there. I was like, oh shit, he's hurt. Freaking, let's go. It's go time. And I remember I talked to Eddie Alvarez

and I asked him why did he freak out like that when he had RDA hurt? And Eddie was just like, man, I saw that light at the end of the tunnel and I just freaking, I had to empty the tank. And I'm that light at the end of the tunnel and I just freaking I had to empty the tank and I'm like fuck it empty the tank let's go this is my moment empty the tank so I'm throwing like a madman and Tyron is taking it all and he's tough as shit I'm like damn he's not going down and there was a couple times he was rocked it looked like he could have went

down and all I had to do is really settle back and hit him with clean shots but i wasn't even fucking thinking about that i was just like get this guy out of here now this is what i wanted to do put the stamp on it let's freaking do it it was a hell of a barrage yeah and i'm throwing i'm throwing i'm throwing i'm like red line red line the gas tank is on e it's on e it's on e which is the only reason i even shot in to for a shot i was and then i heard my coaches saying take him down that's what they realized yeah i wasn't freaking knocking him out they were like take it down i was and i grabbed his leg and tried to but that was the thing i could recover pretty quickly so

you recovered very quick because it was one of those pivotal moments in a fight where I was like, man, if Tyron doesn't go out here, how much does he have left? I knew. I was scared because I was like, I know he knows he's probably down three to four rounds. Yeah. And I knew. I was in a sense waiting for him to just start letting go. Snap out of it. To snap out of it.

to just start letting go, to snap out of it. But that's the one thing. You never really give yourself enough credit with your game. With my game, I feel like I put people in a trance in a certain stage to where they just know getting out of it. And that's kind of been a knock on me. People are saying, oh, you're not finishing fights. You're not doing this. You're not finishing fights. You're not doing this. You're not submitting guys.

You're not knocking them out. This is my mentality on that. And this has been since I was wrestling. If they were wrestling, you could pin guys really quick, do slick moves and pin guys. But then the guys would get up and say, oh, man, I never seen that move before. He caught me in this slick move. That's why he got me. I'm going to get him next time. I'm going to do that. I'm going that move before. He caught me in a slick move. That's why he got me. I'm going to get him next time.

I'm going to do that. I'm going to get him. And the same thing with a fight. It's like, man, I had my hand down and he caught me sleeping. So he caught me with a shot. It was a lucky shot. He's never going to do that shit to me. Next time I'm going to get him.

Or he caught me with a slick submission. I've never seen that before. I'm going to train for it next time. I'm going to stop him. My thing is, even in wrestling, what I always wanted to do is I wanted to tech fall guys in wrestling. And tech fall,

what that means is when you're beating someone by 15 points, you have a 15 point gap, they stop the match. Because it's basically a skunk. Like you skunked this guy. You were beating him that bad, they had to stop it. That is my mentality. That is always what I strive for and in 2011 i believe i not 2011 2009 i led the nation division one two and three nai whatever in tech falls i think at one point me and brett

metcalf was battling like every week i would look and see who had the most tech falls it was me be him be me him and i had the most because that's what Mike was my goals. I wanted to skunk guys Because in their mind what it says is you can't fuck with that guy. There's you can't hang with him There was nothing you can do it. Not even it wasn't a quick pin a lucky pin or or this like he destroyed you He just set levels apart. And that's what I do even in fighting now. I do the exact same thing, is I would much rather dominate you from start to finish.

I want to break you. When you think about fighting me again, I want you to say, fuck, no, I don't, no, shit, no. He beat me everywhere. He broke me. He took something from me. Because you're going to think about, you only remember the fights you lose. You know, like I've beaten so many guys in wrestling.

I can't tell you maybe 30 guys that I've beaten in wrestling. I don't have no idea. But the ones you lose, you can almost tell everyone. And that's my take on it. I want to dominate you so bad, when you think about fighting me again you don't you say fuck that i'll pass on that fight and so people are like oh man this guy doesn't really finish guys but how many guys want to fight me again not a lot of them do you have one loss in mma yes i do one loss right yeah i have one loss in my second fight um uh caseras i forget his name Second fight.

Caceres. I forget his name. I forget his first name. It's the Caceres. Is it Jose Caceres? His brother? Alex Caceres? Yeah, it's Jose.

His name is Jose Caceres. Is he Alex's brother? I think it's older brother. Oh. Yeah. And, oh, man, I took the fight on like a two-weeks notice or something like that because it was, like, eight months in between. I fought my first fight, and I thought, see, that's the thing with fighters coming into MMA now. This is a lesson to you guys.

Everyone feels like, oh, I'm just going to jump in, and it's going to be peachy. I'm going to be getting fights every other week, every other month. No. So I fought my first fight, and I thought, okay, this is great. My career is kick-starting. I'm going to be doing fights so often. I went through 22 opponents within my first fight before I got the second fight. Because now it's Google now.

Everyone, oh, fuck, he's a national champion wrestler. No, I don't want to fight that. Because everyone wants to get to the UFC, and they figure, oh, it's the best record. You want to be undefeated to get to the UFC. So nobody wants to fight anyone that's hard. And so, of course, at that point, I was a wrestler. I could take anyone down, hold them down for three rounds and win the fight. So no one wanted that fight.

So it was months and months went by, and then that fight came about. I was just like, shit, I'll take it. And I'll be honest, I never grappled before that I never did Jiu Jitsu and so I figured I can wrestle my way through all this shit like man fuck these guys these guys are all low level guys

you know look who I train with I train with Rashad Evans and these guys those guys can't touch me I get in a fight I throw a one two his legs are there I hit him with a one two His legs are there I hit him with a one two Boom boom

Double leg Like Within 15 seconds Boom Threw him down Full mount And I'm kind of throwing punches I didn't really know what I was doing

I'm throwing punches And I'm trying to elbow him And Jose Caceres died I think six two Six one Six I don't know He's well taller than me

Long limbs He throws his legs I mean full limbs he throws his legs i'm in full mount he throws his legs around my body i never seen no shit like that before right my mind at that time was like what is oh shit what's this shit i i didn't know what to do so i'm like so i start kind of panicking in my mind i don't know what to do. So I'm like, so I start kind of panicking in my mind. I don't know what to do. I'm like, fucking get out, which is what you don't do. Right.

So I turn my body. I'm trying to like get up and walk out, which is what you don't do. And so he just basically climbed up my back. Boom. We're not even sweating yet. Boom. He's on my back. I'm standing up with the backpack on.

He's six something. He has a foot on the ground, one foot wrapped around me. He's fighting for the choke. And I think I hold him off for another minute and a half. I'm standing and I'm fighting this choke. All the while I'm thinking like, oh shit. I can't go down because I don't know what the fuck I'm doing down there as well. Right.

So I don't really know the defense down there. So if I go down, that just might make it worse. I don't know the defense. And this dude looks like he knows what he's doing behind me. He's got a few fights. And I'm kind of scared, and I'm fighting it. Now I'm standing up. My feet are getting heavy.

It's getting shaky. I'm like, I'm a of scared and I'm fighting it. Now I'm standing up. My feet are getting heavy. It's getting shaky. I'm like, I'm a strong guy. Why the fuck are my feet shaking? Because they're starting to fill up with blood. My adrenaline is pumping and I'm just like, oh shit, I'm about to lose. Joe, there's this moment in your mind to where you start to come to realization with certain things. Yeah. I'm like, oh, shit, I'm about to lose.

And then I start thinking about random thoughts. And one of the thoughts that I thought about was before the fight, we had a commission meeting in the back. And the commission said, if you get choked unconscious, you're suspended for six months. So you can't fight for six months. Because in my mind, I'm like, fuck this. I'm a tough guy. You got to put me to sleep.

I ain't never tapping. So I'm like, if I get, it took me eight months to get this fight. And it's a short notice fight. I haven't made money in eight months. I'm broke as shit i sleep and i live with rashad i live with another man i'm broke as shit i have no money

i need money so if i can't fight for another six months i have no money so all these thoughts are going through my mind and i hear Alex Caceres on the other side of the cage screaming, he's going to tap. He's almost out. And I'm like, fuck. Am I going to tap? I'm like, fucking well played, Alex. Now I'm thinking about tapping just for that shit.

Oh, man. And I just saw it going down. And I'm like, you can't be suspended for six months, bro. I know you want to be tough right now. You want to go to sleep, but you can't be suspended for six months, bro. You have to, you got to, you know,

you got to make money. You're broke. I fucking tapped, yo. I fucking tapped. I never felt so, I don't want to say emasculated, if that's the word. I felt so like like i just that's what i said like win or lose it takes something from you and i walked out of that fight i went to the back i paced for like maybe two three hours in the back all the fights finished up

and i finally went to locker room got my stuff and came out. But I just paced back and forth. And the feeling in my mind was, I am never going to feel like this again. I do not ever want to feel like this. And ever since then, I got a fucking gi. I never had a gi before. I got a gi. I started training with George Santiago, my jiu-jitsu coach, every fucking morning. I was like, bro.

I saw he gave you your black belt after the fight. He gave me my black belt. And this is the thing is, I never worried about that. black belt after the fight. He gave me my black belt. And this is the thing is I never worried about that. I never worried about it. Like, yes, I was freaking beating up blue belts before I was even a white belt. Like, yeah, because I never did that skill, trained in jiu-jitsu skills. But, like, I knew how to grapple through certain things. Sure.

You know, I've been grappling at a high level but it wasn't just jiu-jitsu so he kept challenging me like i was always because i want i want to be that guy i want to be the freaking blue belt that freaking works all the brown and black belts but he would freaking promote me he's like purple bell because you've been training you're training the gi i'm going to promote you so he kept challenging me and challenging him so now people knew i felt like all he was doing was alerting people of what to expect when they went with me and for them to try to to really fuck me up and so he promoted me um i think a couple years ago it was uh brown bell he performed i think maybe two and a half three years ago and um and then he promoted me to black bro he just asked me to come in the gym.

I didn't really even know. I just felt like, okay, man, he wants everyone to take pictures with the belt. And he freaking gives me my black belt. Another thing just floored me. I was like, shit. I never knew. I never expected all of this.

I just wanted to fucking compete. I just wanted to be a martial artist, learn all this stuff and compete. I never knew that I would get a black belt. I never knew that I would win to fucking compete. I just wanted to be a martial artist, learn all this stuff and compete. I never knew that I would get a black belt. I never knew that I would win the championship belt, be the best in the world at that time. So I never knew all that. How much did you adjust your training to incorporate jiu-jitsu? Did you add more training sessions or did you substitute?

Absolutely. What I would do is, because I was living with Rashad at the time. So what I would do is I would somehow get to the gym. Because Rashad was traveling a lot. This was at the height. He was doing a lot of different shows and stuff. And so I would go to the gym at 7 a.m. We'd have 7 a.m. practice.

I think Monday, Wednesdays, and Fridays. George would have a class. And I would go and take that class. And then our pro class was, I think it was at 9. So I would just stay at the gym while the pros came in for the practice at 9. So I would go through that class as well. And then after that, whether lift on my own, strength and conditioning, right after that. And dumbass me.

That's what I'm saying. I was 20-something at that time. I wasn't eating in between all the sessions. I wasn't doing any of this. I was just freaking going, going, going, going. So you'd eat breakfast and that was it? I didn't eat breakfast at that time. You didn't even eat breakfast?

I didn't even eat breakfast. I would get up cold, go to the gym, work out. Then roll into the next session and work out. Then roll into strength and condition, whatever I did on my own, work out. No own workout no food no food and then freaking go home eat a big meal snap then go back for the night session night practice and that's how it was for a long long time and rashad was would always come home and say hey man why don't you come out with me this weekend let's go let's go out let's go do something and i was always like nah man i gotta, I got to train on Monday, man. I don't want to do all that.

I don't want to go out. Rashad be like, bro, you got to have balance in this. It's got to be a balance. And I was just thought at that time, like, oh, fuck that. You say that because you're the top. You're the champ. You're the best. So you say that.

My whole thing was I just need to work. I need to catch up. I need to catch up to these guys i need to work so i was just doing overtime overtime overtime but you know now i understand what rashad was saying there has to be balance yeah when did you adjust your eating i think um we got a strength and conditioning coach jake banachi and j Jake, amazing coach, man, he worked with a lot of the extreme couture guys, worked with, like, Randy and those guys back in the day, and he kind of started, like, you got to fuel yourself, he kind of started, you know, letting me in, and I

seek, that's the thing about me, I seek knowledge, like, I'm always, I always want to learn, I always want to learn whatever I can and I started learning like oh shit no wonder I was dead tired in that session no wonder I had nothing left because I really didn't eat I had no fuel so I started kind of putting things in and and the more and more like I said it wasn't until my last two or three fights that I started working with trifecta and Clint Wittenberg and just you know I seek knowledge if whenever I can get knowledge I I take it so these trifecta folks what kind of stuff they prepare for you man they prepare my meals and they they send it to me they send me the like I said I like to cook for myself like they send you like a cooler or prepackaged yeah they sent they sent me

the prepackaged food but I'm not so much into the prepackaged stuff like you know just throwing a microwave and eating I'm not so much like that because i like i like hot food i wanted to feel fresh so they'll send me like the packages like the protein and the chicken and the steak or the fish and things like that and basically i take it out my responsibility to take it out i think it's pre-cooked but i take it out and i put it over the stove and make some veggies with it and other stuff that I want with it. And I'll cook it that way. So it seems more like a fresh meal, even though it's kind of pre-made just for my mind. Right.

I get it. I get it. So do they have it broken down with a certain amount of calories for each meal, depending upon what kind of working out you're doing? Yeah, man. Clint broke it down. I give him my schedule for the week and he breaks it down like this is what you need to eat four servings of protein four servings of carb fats and this and that before your weight lifting session before you're sparring before this you need this amount of sugar and this amount of this this amount of that man made a big difference because i would there'd be certain practice.

I would lift and I'm like, fucking, yeah, I feel good. I want to get out of there to where usually I hit a wall, like, boom. Fucking, this is miserable. You were getting by on toughness. Yeah, I just grind through it. That UFC Performance Institute is amazing. It's just incredible what they did. When they were talking about building that, I was like, what is this going to be?

Like, what are they doing there? They're spending a lot of money. Yeah. Who knows what the fuck it's just incredible what they did when they were just talking about building that i was like what is this gonna be like what are they doing there they're spending a lot of money yeah who knows what the fuck it's gonna be but then i they took me on a tour of it i was like this is literally the ultimate training facility in 10 years it is still be up to date and still be like okay this thing is now catching up like it's so far i know i know they took me there i was like bro i can just live here yeah i know you can literally live there well a lot of people relocated to vegas just to make that the center of their training oh yeah yeah i seen like claudia gadelia is down there francis and francis of course but he trained for his last fight in france i believe yeah his last two fights he did in France. Yeah, we, you know, like, that's my boy.

We talk all the time. That's the scariest heavyweight of all time. Like, I don't understand what people are. A lot of people, like, especially after those last couple of fights, the Derek Lewis fights, people were like, these fans, man. They were condemning him. This guy is... It's one of those things you just got to give

him time to recover from the Stipe fight. He had the psychological block, but he got over it with Curtis Blades. He stopped Curtis Blades, who's one of the best guys in the heavyweight division. Curtis is a big guy. Curtis was a beast as well.

Even for this fight, everyone's like, oh, Kane's going to do him. Kane's going to do him. Kane's the better version of Stipe. And I get it. Like, I understand Kane. Kane is the greatest heavyweight we've ever really seen. You know? I mean, you know, DC right now, that's an argument too.

You know? But Kane was great. But Kane has been gone for almost three years, two and a half years, a long time. And people are putting all this pressure on him that expecting him to come back and be the same old Kane like nothing happened. And I'm like, guys, and then not to come back, come back against the scariest heavyweight we've ever seen. Ever. Ever. I mean, Francis, the first time he lifted weights was with me.

What? Francis never touched weights. Ever. And that's the scary thing. You go to Africa and there's millions of guys like like that walking around i was saying that his story is like a it's like that conan scene where conan was like pushing the wheel like he was he was working in a sand mine just digging sand yeah and becoming this tank of a man it's crazy it's obviously superior genetics on top of that because you don't get to be 265 naturally yes just i mean you have to have

fantastic genetics he's got that too but his ability to land punches that just put people away with like he can graze you and fuck you up absolutely and and his speed oh people like i tried alistair over i tried to spar with him i tried to spar with him. I tried to spar with him once. Yeah. You were 170. Why are you sparring with him? I mean, it was just playing around. And that's the thing in our room.

Everybody spars with everybody. And he loves sparring with smaller guys. He loves it. Because of speed. Yeah, because he's not trying to hurt anyone. He's not trying to hurt you. But he likes working on his speed. He's so fast. I think he's faster than me

forced like i mean it's and i'm like he's that fast with that much power i mean if he even and that's what i say if he touched anywhere near this circumference right here you're gonna wake up and ask what happened well that's what k what Cain was saying, that he didn't remember what happened when Francis apparently grazed him with the first punch near the back of his head. And Cain doesn't remember shit after that. And then clipped him with that uppercut on the inside. Everyone was saying, oh, he hurt his knee. That's what happened. No, he got hit with a punch in there.

It was a small, sharp punch. That's all it takes with that guy. Yeah. Yeah. What's amazing is that Stipe weathered the storm. That's what's amazing. You've got to give credit to Stipe. I mean, Stipe weathered the storm when Francis was convinced he was going to put Stipe away

after the Overeem destruction. I mean, he put Overeem into orbit. Yeah. To watch that, it was like, holy shit. And you think the striking credentials of Alistair. I mean, Alistair's glory heavyweight champion, Strikeforce heavyweight champion, K-1 Grand Prix. I mean, he won the three of the most prestigious titles in combat sports.

And to have Francis clip him like that was just like, Jesus. That goes to attest to MMA. This is why the sport's so great. It doesn't matter where you come from, what you're good at. It doesn't matter. With those four-ounce gloves and being able to wrestle and grapple and do all this, everything changes. It's an even playing field for everybody.

Yeah. Now, if he just gets his wrestling on point, I mean, it's crazy. He's only been doing MMA all told for, what, five years now? Yeah, five, six years. That's crazy. Yeah. I mean, I made this switch around the same time. We had our first official UFC fight the same time.

Wow. Yeah. What was your first year of your first fight? What was your first fight? My first fight, I think, was in 2013 or 2012. So seven years ago, which is crazy. And how much striking had you done before your first fight? Not a lot.

I mean, the thing with me is I used to watch videos. When I was convinced myself I was going to start doing doing this and this has been years in the making like I was I coached on season 14 of the ultimate fighter with uh Bisping and uh Mayhem Miller I was uh Mayhem's wrestling coach wow so and that was the season with TJ Dillashaw John Dodson Dennis Bermudez and all these guys and so at that point I had started to uh shout out to Ryan Parsons man uh Dr. Parsons one who brought me in he was managing Mayhem at the time and uh I love Ryan yeah Ryan's a good dude super good guy man I loved Ryan and uh and I was you know I'd fiddle with it I just you know throw my hands a little bit like yeah I'm gonna do this one day you know I just kind of playing around and playing around with it.

So I love boxing. I love watching all that stuff. I was like, man, maybe I'll do this stuff one day. But when I watched those guys go through the Ultimate Fighter, being in Vegas and in the house, I was like, yeah, no way. I'm not doing that shit. Never. Not doing it. Even back then you were thinking, I'm not doing that shit. Never. Not doing it.

Even back then, you were thinking, I'm just going to wrestle. Yeah. Because at that time, I was living at the Olympic Training Center. I was training for the Olympics. Right.

I was like, yeah, I'm going to do this shit. No, it's not possible. So what was it that flipped the switch? Rashad. Really? Rashad. The same time,

I think 2011, I was still at the Olympic Training Center. I had gone back and um just training and i was friends with king mo i've known king mo ever since i was in high school and funny thing is like man like we were so connected because we were from similar we're walking similar paths king mo is from like african descent am I. And he wrestled in Texas. And so was I in high school. And then he's a Division II guy.

I went Division II. He was a national champ. I was a national champ. And, you know, walking the similar path. So I just felt connected to King Mo. So I would always talk to him. I looked up to those guys, King Mo and DC. And they were like, you know, the black dudes that you look up to because they want a lot of black wrestlers.

So they was the dudes that we looked up to. It was like, yeah, man, King Mo. So he's been doing MMA. I think at that time he was the Strikeforce champion. And so King Mo calls me and my friend Jake Fisher, who was a world team member at the time, is like, hey, you guys want to come down to Denver and train with us? I'm going to train that night. Of course, I'm going to go. Yeah, training with King Mo, my boy. I get to

see him. So we go down. This is the first time I've ever been starstruck in my life. And this was now I've been watching MMA now. I've done the show and all these things. So we get down there and we're in a dressing room. I'm just thinking King Moe's coming, and we're going to work out with him.

It was me, Fisher, TC Dantzler, and another kid named Bo. And we're in the dressing room. We're changing, and it was Joe Warren's gym. Shout out to Joe Warren. Shout out to Joe Warren, man. Badass dude. He's a funny dude. Yeah. And we're changing, and all of a warren shout out to joe warren man badass dude it's a funny dude yeah and we're we're changing it and all of a sudden you know i'm changing i look back rashad evans walks in the fucking dressing room i don't know i've never been starstruck in my life

i was just like oh shit that's rashad so of course you know i had to play it cool i can't even be that dude you know i ain't no fanboy but I'm thinking in my mind oh shit that's fucking Rashad Evans I just watched this dude fight Rampage

and they do the ultimate fighter and all this joint like oh shit that's Rashad so we get we get back out now we're training together

we're wrestling I just can't believe how you know good to this day he can fucking lie and say he took me down. He didn't get one takedown in that training session.

I freaking took him down several times, ran him off the mat. But the one thing that I couldn't, I was impressed by how good of a wrestler he was. Then I started doing my research. I was like, oh, he actually wrestled. He was a wrestler at Michigan State. He was a two-time Juco champion. He was a wrestler. I couldn't believe oh, he actually wrestled. He was a wrestler at Michigan State. He was a two-time Juco champion. He was a wrestler. I couldn't believe how good he was.

But then after that session, we sat on the mat and we just talked. And to keep in mind, my whole mind is like, shit, I'm talking to a superstar here. Right. And he was at the top of the game. And I couldn't believe, like, we talked like we were brothers. Like, we was homies. Like, we've been best friends for a long time. He's a great guy.

Man, I mean, I couldn't. He floored me. And I was just like, shit. Like, that's Rashad Evans. Gave me his number after. Like, gave me his number. I was like, bro, yeah, hit me up. What you doing?

What you going to do tonight? I was like, oh, we got to drive back to Colorado Springs. He was like, oh, okay. I'll be back in Denver. I'm going to hit you up. You doing what you gonna do tonight I was like oh we gotta drive back to Colorado Springs he was like oh okay I'll be back in Denver I'm gonna hit you up you know talk like we were boys

and of course I'm like it's like you're holding the piece of paper with his number on it I'm like oh shit that's Rashad's number

so I go home it's like do I wait two days to text him do I what do I do like a chick like to text him? What do I do? Like a chick.

Like a chick. Oh, wait, what do I do? Oh, shit, that's Rashad's number. It's just sitting on my desk. I walk by it. I look at it. Oh, man. So a week goes by, and he freaking texts me.

He just texts me out of the blue. Like, yo, what up, man? Like what's up? I'm gonna be in Denver this next, you know next month or something like that Why don't you come to the gym with me? It's like yeah, yeah for sure for sure. So I went train with him again Just you know hung out for a little bit and Then he started night. It became regular you text me regularly like hey i got a fight coming up about the fight phil davis i'm gonna bring you down to florida with me to train with me for two weeks fuck you're gonna fly me to florida to train with you yeah yeah of course

i'm down so now i became like part of his training arsenal and every time that's the thing we're shy every time he would make fun of you like Like, you know, like brothers do. He'll poke fun of you. You know you want to do MMA. You know you want to do this. You should be doing this shit. Why are you over there busting your butt and wrestling? Like, you would train all through this whole wrestling camp, go all the way to Russia, wrestle a tournament. If you won the tournament, you got $1,500.

And this guy, I would help these guys train. These guys go out and beat somebody up, make $75,000, $100,000. Like, what the fuck? What sport am I in right now? What is going on? And so he kept poking at me like, man, you know you want to do this, you know you want to do that. So he slowly started to shift my motivation and my focus towards MMA

instead of winning that Olympic gold. And then, of course, I was dealing with a lot of different injuries here and there, tore up my knees, tore up my back. And I just, I started to feel like my chance of winning Olympic gold started to diminish more and more and more. And then I started falling in love with this sport here and there. And then I talked with him, talked with King Mo and King Mo was just like, man, don't straddle the fence, man, because I straddled the fence and look what happened. Cause King Mo was supposed to be the Olympian the fence, man, because I straddled the fence. And look what happened, because King Mo was supposed to be the Olympian. And he was like, I straddled the fence, and look, I lost to the Charles.

And, no, I'm in MMA, so if you're going to do that, just do that. And Rashad was like, why don't you come down to Florida? I just freaking, I was like, man, that's it. I'm done. Wow. Yeah. Now, when we were talking about Cain Velasquez earlier, Cain has had a series of catastrophic injuries. Knee injuries, knee surgeries, shoulder surgeries, back surgery.

When you think about your style, that's kind of similar to his in a lot of ways in that you rely on pressure, volume, mental toughness, and wrestling. pressure volume mental toughness and wrestling all those things you're you're constantly attacking you're constantly bombarding your opponent with with technique and with pressure when you see that you've gone through all these surgeries and you see like what happens with a guy like Kane where his body just can't compete with his mental toughness anymore it's almost like his his mind is too strong for his body and his body just breaks yeah i mean it's does it fuck with you at all it's a little bit because it's um it's like man you got to switch up because you want to have longevity yes i've had seven surgeries now so what's what have you done besides the five knee surgeries i've had five fucking knees five knee surgeries i've had four meniscus on each.

Four? Four. Jesus. Two on the left, two on the right. And then I've also had a micro fracture, which is probably one of the most, the biggest serious surgeries that I've had on my right knee. Now, is that one of those ones where they try to regrow cartilage? Yeah.

I guess the process is they make breaks. yeah it's i guess the process is they they make breaks they they make fractures in the condyle to hopefully i guess just scar up you know generate a blood supply scar up so where it creates a little cushion but fucking it didn't work i feel like it set me back really but yeah man big time have you ever um heard of uh dr neil Neil Reardon and what they're doing down in Panama with stem cells? No, I've never heard of him. I've heard of stem cells, and I've actually had a round of stem cells. What they're doing down in Panama, do you know TJ Dilsha? Yeah, I know TJ.

Talk to him about it, man, because he has some phenomenal—I actually sent my mom down there. Really? Yeah, they were trying to give my mom a knee replacement surgery. I was like, hold on, Mom. I was like, let's see what we can do. So I sent her down there to Panama. His office is in Dallas, and I had him on with Mel Gibson. Mel Gibson's dad, when he sent him down there, was 92, and he was in a wheelchair.

Now he's 100, and he's walking around. And according to Mel, I didn't ask, but according to Mel, still getting hard- getting hard-ons i didn't ask i didn't ask i don't think that goes away but he said yeah i mean mel's gone down himself and man i would go down if i had anything really wrong with me too i mean i've gotten a lot of stem cells done here in the states yeah but they can do some shit down there in Panama that they just cannot do here in terms of regulations and shit. They're doing phenomenal work

with regrowing cartilage and meniscus and all kinds of shit. Especially right now, while you're in recovery phase anyway, you really should get in contact with them. Yeah, for sure. I'm going to definitely give that a try. Because they've helped TJ quite a bit. i know other fighters have gone down there as

well yeah that's something that definitely i'm gonna look into yeah because you you know i mean when you're dealing with bone on bone like i'm sure you probably are that i've been on for a long long time it's fucking hard to train a long time well that's why it's so impressive your cardio because you're you can't run. So are you doing plyos as well? Yeah. I mean, part of what, like I said, my strength and conditioning coach, Corey, we do a good job of adjusting to what I can or can't do. And, you know, obviously back squats are not the biggest, the best thing for me to be doing.

So we modify. We do different types of squats and things like that. And we still get pretty good results do you do any swimming yeah i i play in the water a lot too and that that's i do a lot of footwork stuff in the water because it takes a lot of pressure off yeah i was forced like i i can't i mean i'm not gonna go in here and do back strokes and all this crazy swimming techniques but you know i get in there to get that workout do you do sprints in the pool or anything like that yeah big into those now um you said your shoulders are fucking with

you too shoulders are i mean i'm a wrestler you know shoulders always gonna be banged up you know but i haven't i'm unfortunate no surgeries there yet but um yeah knees i've had surgeries five and then i tore this my index finger that tendon right there i tore that my junior year in uh college and i tore that i had surgery with that to replace that repair that and then now this freaking whole apparatus that i have going on in my lower they put a mesh is that what they do bro um they did a little bit i told him because they didn't the doc didn't want to work with mesh that well because he said that you know there's good and bad results with the mesh so you know i got this freaking drain coming out of me right oh shit look at that oh my goodness look at that it's just pus and stuff

it was blood like it was basically the blood it's like a vacuum, I think is what they call it. And it's draining blood. But now it's coming down. It's not that much blood coming out of there anymore. How long ago was that? Tuesday, I got that. Wow. So, yeah, I've been having to walk around and maneuver with this thing.

Jesus. And the worst thing is the burning because it's obviously sticking out of a hole. There's a hole in me. So the burning sensation around it. The third day I told the physical therapist, I was like, yo, I almost cut this shit off of the scissors.

Because I'm not big into the painkillers. Right. Right. You know, so I'll take it. The day after I'll take it, you know, maybe,

but they just don't do much for me. It doesn't kill the pain. Right. I'm like, why do they call these painkillers? It doesn't kill the pain. It doesn't. It just makes me a little loopy. It doesn't kill the pain. I'm like, why do they call these painkillers? It doesn't kill the pain. It doesn't be big enough. It just makes me a little loopy.

It makes me stupid as fuck. I don't fuck with them either. Yeah, so I just have a bag of them, and I just don't do anything with them. What about CBD? Do you use that? I do, man. Shout out to, I'm sponsored by Love Hemp. Beautiful.

Love Hemp is a UK company. Very good company. Yeah, amazing. They're doing some really really big things and uh i'm big into like the oil i have and i have the rub and i both yeah i use those a lot so that's in my repertoire yeah that's huge for anybody that's experiencing any kind of inflammation plus for general anxiety and overall health cbd is fantastic yeah and no psychoactive effects too you know yeah because that's that's that's

the freaking stigma behind it's like oh it's marijuana it's weed yeah yeah we were talking about marijuana before the podcast yeah i was like don't do it i'm like i'm coming on joe rogge should i smoke no no champ no we want you we want you lucid here i want you going in the hole the problem is like when people don't get high And then they get high In a pressure situation like this You're just like Yeah

You go into that tunnel You're like yikes Oh my god yeah It's um I've tried I've smoked four times in my life Yeah How did it go?

Uh not good I mean The first time Was my 24th birthday 24th birthday uh i smoked with uh who was it a couple friends of mine at the olympic training center and they didn't do anything because i didn't know how i don't know how to hit the blind i don't know right i didn't inhale yeah Yeah. So I was like, man, this stuff don't affect me, dog. I ain't going to do this. So I didn't say, screw that if you want to do it again. And then the next time was the year after with Jason Miller, Mayhem Miller. Oh, Mayhem knows how to hit that.

Yeah. It was doing Ultimate Fighter. We were doing that. And one thing we do at night is a lot of people expect, like, man, when he's not on, he's a man, super cool guy. He's a very good dude. I mean, there's always like, kind of like being around Mike Tyson. There's always like. Edge.

Yeah, there's always that edge to where you're in a room with the freaking lion. Like, yeah, he's the coolest lion ever, but you still know it's a fucking lion. You know, and Mayhem's like that. You in a room everything's cool but he still has he can snap at any moment so we're sitting on the balcony at night and we'll just talk and he would just talk about these the weird thing about mayhem is he always watched like he watched nothing but like smart shit like the news like the colbert report like things like that you know he wouldn't watch i would think he'd watch like 90210 or freaking shows like that like no man he you know he was very intelligent guy

and we would just sit there and talk at night and um he gave me the nickname that night too And he gave me the nickname that night, too. And freaking, he's like, bro, your first name starts with a K. Your last name is Usman. Usman. I'm going to freaking call you Kush. I'm calling you Kush. Freaking the next day on set, everyone calls me Kush.

To this day, people call me Kush you're like I'm the Nigerian nightmare which is and at that time it wasn't born yet you know the name wasn't there

because I didn't start fighting yet so I've had nicknames all through all throughout my life my career which is that whole Ben Askren shit

that he's trying to run with Marty from Nebraska why is he calling you Marty from Nebraska he calls me Marty from Nebraska see this is the thing when I started wrestling I started in high school.

My coach was this big Marine dude. You know, he was in shape. Buzz cut, white dude. And he comes up to me. I'm 5'2", 100 pounds, soaking wet. And he's like, yo. He's like, what's your name, kid? And I tell him, but I don't even think he paid attention.

And he's like hey would you try wrestling i never heard of wrestling all i've heard is wwe i'm like nah man i ain't trying to get hit with chairs and stuff i ain't trying to do that shit so he kind of looks at me he's like he's like ah okay yeah all right we'll give it a shot And our assistant Wrestling coach Was the assistant football coach So they kind of Would poke at me Yeah you come try wrestling Come try wrestling

I'll do the football season Then the next year I freaking I nutted up And I freaking just Signed up for wrestling I went in And

He looks at He's reading the role sheet Calling names And he goes Kam Kamarudin. Who the fuck? Who is this kid? Who the fuck is this kid? And I'm like, that's me, coach.

He's like, that's your name? I'm like, yeah. He's like, I'm not saying that. Because my whole full name is Kamarudin. Kamarudin. Kamarudin. And he's like, I'm not going to say that. Like, Kamarudin. Kamarudin. Kamarudin. And he's like, I'm not going to say that. Like, Kamarudin.

I'm going to call you Marty. And I'm just like, yeah, sure, coach. I'm fucking 5'3", 100 pounds. I'm just scared of this guy. And I'm like, sure. I mean, you're a kid. You don't care. You're going to have nicknames all growing up.

Why does the UFC shorten your name? To Kamarudin? No, that's what my parents call me it's kamaru yeah my parents call me kamaru but the full it's like my my name's joseph my parents call me joe joe exactly yeah so the you know so that it's it's kamaru that's what my parents always call me that's what i call myself okay you know but my full name is it's like joseph is a you know it's kamaru dean so um so marty yeah he's like i'm gonna call you marty so fucking all right now the whole team is calling me marty and you know so white people

are so fucked up no but man i i love people's names i love that coach man he essentially changed essentially changed my life changed the course of my life. That is such a funny thing, though, to do. Yeah. I'm going to call you Marty. That's not even close. That starts with a totally different letter. I know, but it seemed to work. It worked so well.

This is the thing about nicknames. If you're a guy that's just a regular average guy and you suck, your name dies with you. You move on. No one cares. Right. But if you're doing something incredible, something spectacular, that name lives on. Right.

So now Marty went from just now everyone on the team calling me Marty to where people know about the wrestling around the wrestling circuit in high school are calling me Marty. Oh, that Marty guy. That kid's good. And then now college coaches are calling like, oh, I to recruit this kid you know this kamarudian kid and he's like oh marty so now they oh know me as marty so now i go to college and the coach is calling me marty

and now the college team is calling me marty now here's the situation with this whole ben askren thing is like i just mentioned if i was just a regular guy who sucked no one cares no one knows your name you die out right but because i made waves like i was that marty kid that wrestled at nebraska that's beating the shit out of everyone division one two three naia juco doesn't matter ben knows of me so you know he's trying to cling on to something to bring it back like oh this is funny I'm trying to hide from it

no I really was Marty from Nebraska I really was whooping everyone's ass while I was Marty from Nebraska I really was that guy so

for him to bring it I thought he was silly but you know these fans fans wanna cause Ben is a representative of the trolls like

most of the trolls look like Ben Askren. If I can give you any, that's hilarious. That is hilarious. If I can give you any advice, please don't pay attention to anyone. I don't give a shit. Don't pay attention to comments. You know that glass jar? Yeah.

Once you smash that thing, just don't even put anything in there anymore, man. Nothing. And I've heard you say that so many times. Like, when I started paying attention to the show, I started watching the show. And I watched the one you did with Tyron when Tyron was up here. And you're so right. Because that's one thing that I always felt like was so unfair about Tyron is a lot of people just gave him shit. And I think it started because he didn't take that belt.

They didn't dethrone George St. Pierre. So I think a lot of it stemmed from that. I don't know about that, man. I know it doesn't. The way he stopped Robbie Lawler, that didn't give people.

I understand, but, but George St. Pierre was still looping around as the welterweight champion, but sort of not because he retired. He said, I'm going to step away. Yeah,

but he stepped away. Yes, I understand. For you being, obviously, you know so much about the sport. You've been in the sport for so long.

Yes, but for these fickle fans that don't know shit. That's why you can't listen to them. All they know is George St. Pierre. George St. Pierre was a champion and he never lost his belt.

Yeah. So, I felt like Tyron never got his fair share necessarily i feel like the same because because they're like oh he never took the belt from george and he always wanted that fight wonder boy fights i think the wonder boy fights were so fucking hard yeah but even after even before that fight wonder boy that way that is the way you fight that guy yes you know unless you know someone like me comes in and does it what would you do it

what would you i don't know i just do i just do me because he's still in the mix i would just do me you know i will eventually get a hold of him i will eventually break him and you know eventually make it look easy and then people are going to just complain so you know it is what it is yeah the the problem with him is he's so difficult to get close to. He's a different guy because his style is so different. He'll stand totally sideways on you. His hands will be down, and he can wrestle. I mean, in terms of takedown defense. He's got good takedown defense, and his strikes come from fucking weird angles, man.

He moves like a snake. Like he bends at the waist and pops forward. You ever watch him kick box? Yeah, but I saw that You know I knew it was a problem When he threw that one kick That came over the fucking shoulder

And smacked the kid Yeah Question mark kick Yeah It was weird He doesn't have the front leg He's very good with it He just

You don't even know what's going on You think maybe he's gonna kick you in the body Yeah And he just loops around And loops around Comes over the top And like smacks you in the face No he's very talented

Like I like Wonderboy a lot You know But like I just felt like you know i saw that show with tyrant and you said the exact same thing to him and that's what i said too and that's what i was thinking too but it's easier send than none because partially what i i got into this and why why i appreciate the platform that i have right now is the fact that you can affect so many people at such a rapid amount of time because there's been instance to where I don't know if you ever remember that movie uh what women want and then Mel Gibson well Mel Gibson I didn't watch it and and basically he could hear women's thoughts and things like that and And then there was a girl, the office girl in the movie who she was planning to kill herself because no one really paid attention to her.

She's like, no one would care. And she just walked around with books. I applied for a job. Everyone blew me off. No one cares. I'm going to kill myself this day. So she was planning to kill herself. And he heard her because he could hear what women think.

He heard her thoughts. But initially didn't really pay attention to it until later on he realized she was missing from the office. And then he like ran to go find her and essentially saved her life. But my thing is, and that's a quote that I live by, with great power comes great responsibility. Like what if there's someone that's dealing with something at a certain time? And yes, I didn't ask to be put in that position. But they, you know, they just decided, oh, I'm just going to reach out and send a message before I kill myself this day. No one's going to respond.

No one's going to care. And I happened to read that message and talk that kid off the ledge. And that kid becomes fucking, know wins the nobel peace prize later on in life like that's a responsibility that i have that i didn't i didn't put that on myself but that i have with the the gift that i've been blessed with to touch so many people and so how am i gonna know that if i never read any of my messages or comments or things like that yes of course i you know the negative ones yeah blow bloom blow it off but how do i know it's negative if i don't read it you know so that's what i'm saying it's easier said than done it's like i read this if now what i do is i read if i

even feel like it's getting negative dilly dilly dilly i can't read them all because after that five fucking i got thousands i'm sure so you know i can't read them all but every now and again when i'm bored enough and I have time, like I'll read some of it because sometimes it is good, good things. But, you know, that is very easy. Most of the time it's good things. No?

No, no. No, Joe. You know, I shit you not. Yesterday I posted a picture. There was one guy That responded To maybe 40 to 50 people

On negative shit Oh yeah On Like you were gonna die Give out his Instagram handle You were gonna die In this And you know what

I just blocked him He said you were gonna die It's like Oh man You're gonna get knocked the fuck out You're gonna do this I'm just like Oh my god

Like bro Really You literally took the time out of your day to sit here today just knocked on his door and he opened the door and saw your face

imagine oh my god I wish we could do that I wish we could do that and he answers guess who answers the door it's Ben Askren he looks like Ben

just fucking belly out like this he's never trained a day in his life what did you think of the robbie lawler fight with ben oh man like i mean come on they gotta run that back i i was thinking when it was over that herb dean made a mistake but the more i watched it the more i think he didn't i think what happened was i think rob Robbie went out I think his arm dropped And I think when Herb came over This is what Ben says too That he loosened up the choke a little bit And Robbie came back to it And Robbie probably doesn't even know

Because Robbie's such a fucking savage He probably didn't even know he went out Yeah but Okay You know this is the argument And this is why it has to be ran back Yeah It's a good argument to run it back

You know this is an argument because First of all When When Robbie ran that truck through Ben's face Like he was out It's a funny way of putting it He was out And woke up

He recovered I mean he got hit with some fucking bombs But We're freaking wrestlers The one thing about wrestlers at the elite level is You can be out of it But your body will naturally go through Certain motions grab a leg

Pull up a single do that Do you think he was out cold when Robbie was bombing on him Robbie ran a Mack truck Through his face Let's watch it Pull that fight up Truck through his face I feel like Robbie knocked him out

Woke him up knocked him out Robbie woke him up, knocked him out. Like, Robbie was just savage mode. And that's the one thing about Robbie. And knowing Robbie now, because I train with him, is Robbie's such a different guy. Like, he's so nonchalant. Well, he, you know. The way he handled the loss was so classy. But that's Robbie, man.

He's so classy. That's the thing. And the explanation, That's the thing. And the explanation, this is the thing with the explanation is, you can argue the fight should have been stopped when Robbie was bombing on him. You can argue that. Yeah. For sure.

But at the same time, what Robbie explains it is, Robbie has so much experience. And he was a bulldog. It's like Big Brother choke. So, you know, it could have not been doing anything. But Robbie explained it as as I put my hand down Because this wasn't doing shit To relax

You know Because I don't want to panic Robbie has that much experience He should know what to do Maybe that's what he was doing Could be But The way he put his arm down

It looked like it was out Yeah But then When Rob When Herb Dean came To check on him While he was giving the thumbs Thumbs up Herb Dean didn't really Give him, while he was giving the thumbs up,

Herb Dean didn't really give him a chance to put the thumbs up. It stops the fight right then and there. But as far as, oh, I loosened the choke, that's why he came to. No, you don't loosen the choke until the ref pulls you off of him or you pop his head off. He said he lightened up when Herb came over because he thought that Herb was going to stop the fight because he felt Robbie go limp. You don't lighten up because you think someone's going to stop a fight. I see your point.

You don't lighten up because you think. You squeeze harder because you want to make him stop the fight. I see a point. And also, there is a difference between squeezing someone out and beating on them when the referee's coming. If the referee comes and you stop punching because the guy's out, that's one thing. That's one thing.

But you have him in a bolt, you're here in survival mode. You can't like really, you're in survival mode at that time. Sort of, but bulldog chokes are legit, man. I mean, they really do work. Yeah. I mean, that's how Pat Miletic lost the title. Yeah. Carlos Newton caught him in a bulldog choke.

Remember that? Yeah. I'm not going to say they don't work. I'm not going to say'm not gonna say that i'm not gonna you know he could have been out he could have not been out but the only way to to put that all to rest is to run it back but what what kind of sucks is when you're like no i pass i i mean i might pass what what come on bro relax he said he didn't want to fight him in the first place. Well, no shit. Yeah. Well, Robbie looks sensational. Robbie looked like a fucking savage. Here we go.

We're going to watch it right now. Here we go. We're going to watch this shit. Ben, look at the body on him. You laughing? Are you trying to make me laugh here? Fucking stud. Look at him.

Yeah. Look at that body. That's the ideal combat sports body. Look at this. But it is amazing that he's able to get a hold of Robbie. I was stunned. No, I knew he was going to get a hold of Robbie. I thought right away.

Look at this. Savage. That was crazy. Boom. Now eat that. Eat that. Eat that. These are big shots.

Go to sleep. Go to sleep. Go to sleep. I'm out. Go to sleep. I'm out. I think he's still there, man. I don't think there's no evidence that he's out.

Really? You don't see the hands go?'s still there man I don't think there's no evidence That he's out Really You don't see the hands No no I don't think so I think he's eating his shot And then he's got the clinch I don't think he was ever out No There were certain moments He was

Well he definitely ate some big shots But I don't think there's any evidence at all That indicates to me That he was out This is the thing Like Ben is tough as shit Like I give credit where credit is due Ben is tough as shit though like I give credit with credit fuck yeah Ben is tough as hell

man he's tough as hell and right now he's just drunk driving right now he's drunk driving he's a wonky drunk driving is a funny way to put it

bro he's drunk driving right now look at this drunk driving but now Robbie breaks free see I forget the actual

scramble that led to the bulldog choke yeah it happens from when Robbie tries to get up because he does get the takedown. Oh, look, he's drunk driving. Oh, my God.

Oh, man, a lot of blood. You caught him with a nasty left hand there. Yeah, like, Robbie's looking for a bomb. And Ben is just moving forward like a zombie. But he still grabs a hold of him. It's interesting. Interesting that he was able to grab a hold of him because I would have thought that Robbie would have avoided that shit at all costs. Yeah, but that's why he's able to grab a hold of someone.

When someone is so worried about you grabbing them, it kind of shuts them down a little bit. Good knees to the body there by Robbie. Yeah. That's another thing you did in the Tyron fight, those fucking body shots. Good Lord. I was trying to take that body home. You hit him with so many right hands to the body so here we see ben still got the clinch yeah he's doing a good job here trying he's trying to come to it he's trying to you know recover doing a good job keeping it close

now you can't get really get hit with big shots you know and he does get the takedown at some point yeah i do not remember how it happened or what was it. Here it is. Here it is. He reaches down. So he's got him in the clinch here. He's got the underhook on the left side. And so someone, okay, he grabs the leg.

This is interesting. I don't remember this. All I remember is the opening exchange and then the final exchange. Yeah, two on one. Right now he's trying to go two on one. Yes, good job. So he's got the single. Single.

Robbie doing a good job. Now he's got the hands clasped together. It's amazing to me how good of a wrestler he is. I'm going to be honest with you. But it's just funky because it's like not really muscles there. Yeah. It's just like Gumby but

you know it's not going anywhere. But it's tricky. Yeah. Sneaky shit. Yeah. Very sneaky. Very tricky.

So now he's got him down and now Robbie's on his back. He's in yeah sort of inside control. Okay. So now he's got an arm. Yeah. Typical Robbie.

Robbie's just chilling. Boom. He circles out. He's got the headlock. Okay. Now he's got the arm. Yeah, typical Robbie. See, Robbie's just chilling. Boom. He circles out. He's got the headlock. Okay, now he's got the headlock. And now watch that right arm. See, this position. Yeah, but see this position.

See, Robbie puts it down. Yeah, it's moving. It's moving. Yeah. No. Yep. Change my mind again. Yeah, like see, that's what's tricky about that.

That's what's tricky about that. I changed my mind again. I don't think he was out. No, see, because the first- Back it up to just to the arm going limp. Because the thing about the arm going limp is the way it went limp looked, it really looked like he was out. Okay, but this is what I'm saying right here is initially in the situation, wait, wait

till he turns. Wait till he turns. Went right, right, wait till he pulls his arms out. Boom, right here. See, this is uncomfortable. This is very uncomfortable. You're spread out here and the guy's choking on your neck. You got to bring one down to relieve pressure.

Either that one down or take this one inside. So Robbie did the right thing or the arm fell down whether he was out. So, man, it's a tough go, man. One more time. Let me see that arm drop Just back it up Just a little bit Here it goes

See the way it drops See like But it moved It moved It moved It moved It moved It's so hard to know

Move Yeah he might have just been Dealing with the choke Yep Nope I changed my mind again And it's typical Robbie man Cause Robbie says

Robbie says man Yeah experience He said man I knew that That was uncomfortable So I just put my arm down, chilling. Yeah. And that's it, man.

Now I'm on your side. Fuck. Bro, like, there's only one. You have to run that back. I would say so. But how much can the UFC tell him what to do? Like, what could the UFC? The UFC said to Ben Askren, listen, this fight has to happen again.

That's the sport we're in. UFC's the judge, the jury, and if they want, the executioner. What did Dana White say after the fight? He said he wanted Ben to fight him again, right? Yeah, Dana said we're going to run that back. And Ben's like, I pass. Man, I don't know. Robby's like, yeah like Yeah we gotta do it again

Well I know Robbie Was angling for a fight With Darren Till But after Masvidal Starched Darren Till Which was nasty man Nasty man People sleep on Masvidal

They do I do not know why I don't understand it Go back and watch Those backyard fights That guy's been going out For a long time Hey man

And he Man that's he too bad both backyard fights the one that he just had again this weekend yeah i know that was crazy what was that about it's about um you know it's like you can't just talk like nowadays it's this error you could just say whatever you feel like you could say what you want because he's social media you want to get fans on your side And this and that And He just happened to say it

To the wrong guy At the wrong time Yeah Like that's That's the situation And you did it backstage too Yeah Masvidal don't give a fuck

No Legitimately You know Mutual I think I think it's mutual respect With me and Masvidal Like

I respect him You know I mean if we have to fight We have to fight one day, but we feel the same when it's like, if you're going to talk shit online, when I see you,

keep the same energy. When I saw Ben Astrid backstage, the only thing that stopped me from pushing his head through that wall back there was the fact that I almost blacked out when I was walking towards him.

Then I realized Dana was right behind so you were angry it wasn't that i was angry it was the fact that bro like if you're you're you came at me online like you had a problem with me right like you started talking mad shit to me like you had a problem like saying things putting up memes and all this to me that means like you have a problem i don't know what i did to you but you got a problem with me so when i see you now like i want you to still have that same energy don't just act like we're cool like what's up bro yo you want to hug it out don't act like that act like you still have the problem same problem well you think he's just trying to market i mean ben

never has but that's that's anger that's attitude towards anybody but that's what i'm saying that's the thing like people are kind of letting them off with certain things. Now, what happens if Masvidal would have starched him like that backstage? Because he did talk shit. Oh, yeah. What happened if that was him, Masvidal starched like that? What happens? Yeah.

You know? So that was my thing is when I saw him backstage, I almost wanted to push his head through the wall. But then I realized Dana's behind me. Brian's behind me. What happens to Masvidal now in England? Because they don't like that shit over there. I don't know. I think he got away free.

He's gone free. Really? I think. I haven't heard anything. They fly back now and everything's fine? Isn't he back already? That's hilarious if that's the case because that's assault. Yeah, but.

I mean, I guess You could say It's hard It's hard to say Assault When you're dealing With UFC fighters Right Right

It's almost like You played basketball Off the court Absolutely You know It's hard to say It's a tricky Tricky situation

Right But He struck him out In the parking lot Yeah After the baseball game What But I think Dana Didn't Dana put out A statement saying That that can't happen anymore We gotta do a better Something like that A better job them out in the parking lot yeah after the baseball game what but i think dana and what

didn't dana put out a statement saying that that can't happen anymore we got to do a better something like that well they really should do a better job of having security around to separate guys they did my guys they didn't let me near ben astran or a cold yeah well there was one time not before this fight but before a previous fight, where you were backstage. It was actually, was it a press conference? It was a press conference. And you were trying to talk to Colby like, what's up, man? I was scheduled.

You were talking shit. Yeah, I was scheduled to fight Santiago Ponsonibo. That's right. And we were doing a big press conference. And they happened to have, like, I didn't even know he was there. Because they had him hidden away the whole time. It wasn't until we were going to get on the bus to go to the press conference. He came downstairs.

We were all meeting in the lobby, and I saw him. And right away, I told Reed, I don't know what it is. My blood just started boiling. I told Reed, I was like, Reed, man, this is not going to work. This is not going to work. Yo, you got to move it. Reed was like, we're getting him right now. We're moving him. And Reed, they put him in a going to work. This is not going to work. Yo, you got to move it. Reed was like, we're getting him right now. We're moving him.

And Reed, they put him in a different car, and all the other fighters ride together. And this is what I mean. He's already isolated. That's so funny. So we get there, but we have to line up to walk out. So he's lined up, and he just happened to be in my vicinity. And I was just free. I was trying, and I was like, yeah, I'm not going to say nothing.

I'm not going to say nothing. I'm not going to say nothing. I'm not going to say nothing. I'm not going to say nothing. I just look at him. Yo, I see you was talking all that shit online now. Now we in person, you can't talk. What's up with all that shit you was talking online? You thought you was tough. What's up with that?

What's that tough guy now? And he's just like, I think he was reading his lines, like what he was going to say when he got out there in the press conference. He was just like reading. And he heard me. And he's like, shit, I what he was going to say when he got out there in a press conference. He was just like reading. And he heard me. And he's like, shit, I don't want to say nothing. Shit, I could get my ass whooped right here. I don't want to do that. And I could say all those thoughts was contemplating.

And Whitaker was standing next to him. And Whitaker does one of these joint like look around. Who the fuck is this dude talking to? Because I had to watch the video over and over where it could look bad like he ain't talking to me and then saw kobe's like oh he's talking to kobe so whittaker just kindly slid off to the side and um then i'm like what's up with all that shit you was talking and then he's like quiet quiet and then he sees the security kind of because then they heard me and security kind of walks i didn't even know there was a camera back there

uh and then security walks up and security's like oh no no we don't need this we don't need this and this was uh what press uh khabib was about to fight this was after that connor khabib's bus situation yes and so they're like yo we don't need this this week we don't need this and now once this security he goes he goes stick to stick to pay stick to uh network television junior stick to this boy you're not i'm like network television what does that mean because i guess he was fighting his first fight on now on pay-per-view but this is the thing you runview Oh But this is the thing So you were on Fox

Yeah But this is the thing is He had never headlined a card To this day I don't think he's ever headlined a card Yeah no he headlined a card Did he? Not a pay-per-view But when he fought

Rafael dos Anjos That was the main event wasn't it? No it was a co-main event under Yoel Romero And Whitaker in Chicago. He's never headlined a card. Wow. Never. Never headlined a card.

Well, you might be right. I'm thinking about it. Yeah, and he's like, stick to network. I'm like, I'm fucking headlining. Like, bro, you've never done shit. And so he's trying to play that angle and all this and that. And I was just like. You were right.

Look at that. Whittaker Romero, too. Yeah, he's never headlined one. Dos Anjos Covington. He fought Damian Maia on an undercard. Well, I think it was like on the main card, but. CM Punk and Michael Jackson. Yeah.

Tremendous fight. That was it fight I mean No it's It's man I was impressed with him Beating Dos Anjos I really was I thought that was impressive

In what way? Well because he beat Dos Anjos Yeah because Dos Anjos is a fucking savage Dos Anjos is a name Yeah like I give that Yeah you beat RDA RDA is a name

Like that dude's tough as hell Former champion Yes I give it to him But RDA won rounds RDA won Fourth and fifth round RDA. RDA is a name. That dude's tough as hell. Former champion. Yes, I give a... But RDA won rounds. RDA won fourth and fifth round. RDA was taking him down. You saw that RDA took him down numerous times. Well, he didn't...

Let me just clarify. He didn't beat him as impressively as you did. That's for sure. No, yeah. But I don't really care. I don't really care about all that stuff. My thing is, overall and all joe like i've been on such a journey man my whole life i've been on such a journey i've dealt with so many things

that i internalize man and i i don't really talk about so i don't really care what all these guys are doing man i've had a hard life not the hardest i'm not saying it's the hardest life but i've had i've had a lot of things happen to me in life to where i'm just i'm at this point in life where man i i don't i don't want to deal with all the hate i don't want to deal with all this other stuff i understand it's going to come with the sport that we do but man i got bigger shit going on in my mind that i'm worried about rather than all that little things man good for you that's like i said your attitude in so many ways is so good that you you're you're there there to compete, that you're there to do your best. You're not getting caught up in bullshit and petty nonsense.

And, you know, you're just putting pressure on yourself to be the best you could possibly be. That's where you see real greatness. Yeah. And, I mean, like Tyron was, man, there's this thing to where you get to a point where you have to, you're the guy who has to provide. You're the guy who has to hold up. And it's not necessarily people saying you have to do it, but you feel that sense of responsibility. And in my family, I felt that. I feel that sense of responsibility.

You mean your family when you were growing up? Yeah. You know, like, when I say I come from humble beginnings, you know, like, being raised in Nigeria, like, and it wasn't like the village village where we lived in huts and we had a house, but it wasn't really, we didn't have plumbing. You know, we had to go to the well or get water. Electricity was rare. That's a scarce thing. You know? the well or get water we electricity was rare that's a scarce thing you know and into where we even when we came here when we immigrated here yeah life got a lot better how old were you when you came here about eight years old and it was hard to adjust to the school system you know

because kids were kids kids are mean i have to talk with the funny accent would tell you, hey, why don't you say this to the teacher? Say, hey, bitch, call her. And I was always in the principal's office because I had no idea what that means and things like that. So kids are cruel. I dealt with all that. Did you know English when you came here? Yeah, we spoke English, but it's pidgin English. So we knew that we're colonized by the Europeans.

So the English is the root of the words, we're colonized by the Europeans. So the English is, the root of the words, root words are from the Europeans. So we knew English, but it's just our take on it. Oh. And so that. How much different? It's pretty different.

Yeah. Yeah, it's very different. Like if I was talking with another Nigerian, I was speaking Pidgin English, you would pick out words, but it's a little different. Like can you say something

in Pidgin English? Yeah. Like right now, we just sit down here and just talk now. You're not supposed to sit down you pick out words but it's a little different but can you say something in pidgin english yeah like right now we just sit down here just to talk now you you're not supposed to sit down just to talk just a young each other you know not be anything that sounds cool yeah it does if like me and israel adesanya was talking like it would be mad cool oh right right right you know like we speak it to each other so going from that to you know being essentially raised and and going through school and and one thing that um man i haven't i

really haven't ever shared with anybody you know very very few people know is that my father has been incarcerated since 2009 and this is the first time really i'm you know ever talked about it like been in court my dad was um it goes to attest to just the justice system here man it's so it's so so crooked and it's so backwards yes of course we're fortunate like there's so many things that we're thankful for living here in this country that you know you can sleep at night in your house and not worry about somebody breaking and rob robbing you and killing you, you know, for the most part. And so we're thankful for all that. We're thankful for the opportunities.

But my dad was a businessman and my dad built one of the really, really big business in Dallas. He owned like an ambulance company. very big business in Dallas he owned like an ambulance company and you know it comes to a certain point where people just don't want you to be you're you're an immigrant and you're succeeding in a certain business to where it's kind of like people don't care about it people don't want you to be there and you know it's one of those situations where my dad hired the people that he thought were the right people to do what he didn't know, the job, to run his company. Why he could tend to certain things like us, like his family, day-to-day different things that he cared about, to where they run the company into the ground. Not because my dad was the owner of the company. They put it all on him. Even though the people that were doing the things that were wrong in the company admitted to doing the wrong things.

But what the court is saying is that, oh, because you own the company, so ignorance is not an excuse. So because of that, we're going to sentence you to 15 years. So he got sentenced when he did no crime? So because of that, we're going to sentence you to 15 years. So he got sentenced when he did no crime? Yeah. See, the thing is. What was the business again? My dad owned an ambulance company. An ambulance company.

Yes. So it was a transportation for emergency and non-emergency. And one thing that he hired these paramed the em you know amx to run the company because these people that know the business so he had people that he hired from that he acquired from a different company but you know one thing that i would say is my dad's ignorance is is he didn't really do his research well enough on the guys that he hired so you hire certain guys and now these guys are running the business and these guys are like yeah we're gonna make it we're gonna help you grow this business like any businessman fuck yeah i

hired the right people yeah help me grow the business so now they're helping he's they're doing that if he thinks okay i trust these guys they're taking care of the business and the the the most disappointing heartbreaking thing about the business is my dad they're not they're not the one who does the billing the billing for the business they contract a different an outside company

to do the billing so it's not them doing it so they're doing the runs they're sending the notes to them this is the runs we did to you guys bill the government

or whoever else to pay us my dad's the owner he has people that are doing all this he's not there running the day to day so eventually or whoever else to pay us. My dad's the owner. He has people that are doing all this. He's not there running the day-to-day. So eventually, they go on an investigation.

We're investigating, I think, maybe like 15 patients or something like that. I don't know the exact number. Like 15 patients were investigating for these runs or whatever that would bill this billing on them. And so they put it all in the investigation and they're like okay after a while they they come back and they say all right we'll give you your stuff back like we didn't really see anything but we'll give you your stuff back after they shut it down for a little while so damn now i gotta go back to business so my dad's like oh fucking i'm getting out of the business they already killed my business for me so now i became one of the biggest company but you shut down for so long you've lost you know what you've worked for so now he's getting rid of it getting out of it

then they come back later a few years later for the same thing that you've already said you're good here to have your stuff back they come back and say no we're going to prosecute you for this so now those guys i and i've i've seen that this isute you for this. So now those guys, and I've seen it. This is obviously how the feds work. Now those guys that you caught the EMS and these guys that clearly did what was wrong, you gave them a deal and said, hey, we caught you guys because those guys started their own company doing the same shit.

So they get caught. Now they're like, okay, we want that guy. So you guys basically gave them a deal to say okay that that guy it was in on it and my dad's like and i guess they offered my dad a deal a plea deal which his lawyer didn't really tell him about because he had a quarter point a lawyer a lawyer so he said no i didn't do shit wrong why would i take that deal which would have been i think maybe like five years was the deal or something like that my dad's like no i didn't do shit wrong. Why would I take that deal? Which would have been, I think, maybe like five years was the deal or something like that.

My dad's like, no, I didn't do shit wrong. Why would I take five years? So he goes to trial. And bro, we've seen murderers. We've seen all these people that defraud the government, like stock more hedge fund guys, billions of dollars, get bail. They said no. They wouldn't even grant him bail.

My dad's a citizen. Like turned over his passport and everything. They said, no, we're not going to give you bail. We're going to hold you. We're going to freeze all your accounts. You can't really fight the case. So you're stuck there. And now your family's left with nothing.

Nothing. No money in the account. Nothing. And so my dad had to deal with that. And they money in the account, nothing. And so my dad had to deal with that. And they just threw the book at him. They're like, you know, we'll give you 15 years. And this was 2009. And he's already been in for 10?

Yeah, he's been in for 10. And one thing that really killed me was one thing. It was a part in a trial where um the lawyer were basically telling the judge like this guy's an upstanding guy no record you know he has kids look at his kids and how well they're doing his older son is in college the second one is in college the the youngest is about to be in college these kids are all scholarship student athletes great student athletes and the one thing that killed me was the prosecution was like the reason that is is because he was defrauding the government from this money that's why they're in college and i was like wait my dad's not paying for us to be in college

we're all student athletes we earned this we we worked hard earned scholarships for us to be in college the defense didn't say that they didn't fucking say like did he have a court appointed attorney i think he did yeah and bro my dad just got railroaded, man. And it was like, and it was so heartbreaking to where you're telling a man that has raised his family, raised his kids to work hard, get to a place in life. And you're telling him that the only reason he's there is because he cheated. And it was just one of those things that added a chip on my shoulder at all. Man, there's been so many moments that added put chips on my shoulder with everything that i like i've been through so much that i just internalize and i compete with all this energy and so for that you you're telling my dad that yeah like you're gonna sit down and i

just and and obviously of course i researched more and more into that because i was so heartbroken after that like my like you're just gonna for what for how much you're saying not even up to almost a million they would this they just piled a lot of money on they're like oh this this and that for a little over they're saying a little over a million total which is nowhere near that you gave him 15 years when these guy hedge fund guys that that you found guilty for manipulating these markets for billions you give them six months house arrest if that and you're saying you're going to give them 15 years and i started researching i'm like a lot of these judges have stakes in these prisons and to what they do is they they give a lot of time because they get paid for prisoner that's in you know that story about that guy in um pennsylvania who was a he was a judge and he

was doing that he was sending kids to jail he was extending their sentences and giving them sentences for like nothing and it turned out he'd been getting paid by the prison to send a lot of them down the river yeah i heard a lot of them get like kickbacks and different things from that. And so to put people there. Well, as you become more and more famous, you can shed more and more light on this. Yeah, man.

When does your dad do for parole? Man, I don't even know. I think soon. Listen, this podcast alone, you talking about this, could very well bring someone forward that wants to help you with the appeal yeah man and my uh my dad actually wrote because when doing the obama uh administration there was that

whole clemency deal when they were doing it my dad actually wrote a letter i actually have that letter i don't know where i put it but he wrote a letter to him and it was when i read the letter man i i i can't help but cry about it because my my dad um it's my dad cares about his family so much and when i go and see my dad because my dad is so proud of me and um and i'm so proud of him i mean he raised us so well and um to go see him in there and i mean it's not like he's sitting in maximum security but for someone to tell you that you can't go home to your family at night for 10 years you gotta sleep when we told you to sleep we gotta you gotta eat when we told you to eat for 10 years and when you know i didn't do anything

wrong because i chose to say no i didn't do anything wrong i'm not gonna take this sentence you give me they say okay fine then you're gonna sit in there for 15 years and there's nothing you can do about it it is and man it broke my heart man and then when i think about it something i just hold it in because i you know i try not to cry about it which i i'm just like screw it i've different situations that happen in life i'm like you know but i i ate that one up on the shoulder i put that chip on like you know what they're to say that the reason I'm here, that was scholarship is because my dad, they're saying my dad got money, a little bit of money. Are you serious? What about the freaking hard work that I did to get here? What about all the times that I sat in a freaking hot box, my bathroom upstairs with a trash bag on

because I knew that I needed to get a pound off the next day in order to be able to wrestle at this JV tournament. What about all that? You know, that didn't make any difference. You know, the reason, the only reason it was there is because of that. What about all the times my brother ran, worked hard to make national team when he was playing soccer or my little brother getting numerous scholarship for a division one football everywhere. Like that, what? So all that put a chip on my shoulder, Joe, to where I was like, man, I got to succeed at all costs. I don't really care. And where did this happen? Where was this trial? In Texas, in Dallas, Texas.

Not the best place to have a trial happen. But it happened. And, man, it put a sour taste in my mouth. Has he filed an appeal? He filed an appeal one time. They didn't even look at it, man. It was like one of those things where it's like that judge, they put you there, you're there. That was his domain.

They didn't even look at it. Like, who cares? Because I feel like you're being the UFC welterweight champion. But I think that they treated him like that because you're an immigrant in the system. Get in there. And that's, you know, Joe, to wrap that, put that on. That's part of what this next fight symbolizes to me is the attitude that a lot of people have towards immigrants. It's people are forgetting that Americans are immigrants.

I was just having that conversation in the last podcast. People are forgetting that. Yeah. immigrants i was just having that conversation the last podcast people are forgetting that yeah and to where our country's immigrants to where they people have this attitude to where it's like we're americans go back to your country you know you know go back this is a free country you heard this and that people like i always heard that growing up i always heard that and i always and i the more i research i'm like what what are you talking about first of all this this whole attitude when you walk into a nail shop get your hand feet nails done who the majority of the people that run those nail shops asians i'm not saying all of them in the world

in the country but a majority of them in asians but there's a lot of people that look down on it like i'm not washing your feet i'm not not going to do your nails. No, those people, I take pride in that because that provides for them. They do that. But people condemn it. That's not a job people want to do. When you go to these hotels and certain things, who are the main people that are the maids that clean up the hotels? A lot of them are immigrants. We take pride in them because now we're in a country, in a better place where we can provide for families. clean up the hotels a lot of them immigrants we take pride in them because now we're in the country in a better place where we can provide for families those are jobs there are a lot of people so-called americans the whole kobe covington whole persona are like i'm above that i'm above that that's the persona but then at the same time people now want to cry

oh they're here taking our jobs. Let's build a wall. Let's keep them out. They're taking our job. No, they're providing. They're helping this country get to its height. The fact that you could come here and have someone do your nails, someone clean your house, someone wash your car, someone do all this for you, is part of what makes America so great, one of the greatest nations in the world. And the fact that you want to build a wall you want to keep these people out you can't come here you can't bring your culture your stuff here it just it saddens me and it upsets me it's part of what this fight when it happens this fight represents for me because i feel like that's the attitude that this young man has he's entitled to

i'm i should be usc champ you're you're a soy boy. You don't deserve it. You can't hang with me, boy. That's his attitude. You can't do this, boy. First of all, who's your boy? I'm a grown-ass man. Don't fucking talk to me like that. And that's the attitude that he has.

I'm entitled to this. I should be the champion because I am this way. I'm American. I'm this and that. Bro, we're all american here and so this fight is greater than than just oh me beating up a guy that's talking a lot of shit there's this fight means a lot to me so when i get the chance to put my hands on that guy let's just know it's the wrath of every immigrant that i've stepped foot in this country that i I'm going to put on him. Well, you and your family are the ideal immigrants.

Absolutely. Over-achievers. I mean, this is what, like, first of all, what is it about Nigerians that do so well in this country? That's one of the things. If you look at, like, Nigerian immigrants, like successful ratios of different immigration groups, Nigerians in particular are extraordinarily successful upon

immigrating to america yeah i think it's a family family thing it's like when when our families decide and we get the opportunity to move to a better place right the thing is that the whole persona is we're going to be able to sustain this forever so my kids are not going to just play around in sports because that's not guaranteed right what is guaranteed is the fact that you're going to go to school and you're going to become a doctor because you're going to get a job anywhere in the world that you want. That's why a majority of them are doctors. Right. Majority of them doctors, engineers, because these are jobs that high demand jobs. You're always going to get a job anywhere.

Yeah. And so that's all we push. You're going to be a doctor or you're going to be an engineer. None of them are saying you're going to be a professional athlete. My parents, hell no. They didn't care for that. Like I lied to them the first couple of years that I was wrestling. I didn't tell them that.

You know, my brother is a doctor in pharmacy in Dallas. My little brother, you know, could have gotten in the NFL. He was a stellar football player. Played at the University of Houston, University of Arizona. You know, my sister now is in college. She's in nursing school in college. Like, that's just what we push. We want you to get a job that you can provide for your family forever. Yeah, they remind me of Koreans in a lot of ways.

Absolutely. Yeah, super hardworking and appreciate once they've gotten to a place like america where there really is no ceiling on the possibility you could do anything you want once you get here if you work hard absolutely and then this is that's another thing that's dear to my heart is when you're in nigeria like when you're in a situation that we was at my mom was a teacher my mom owned a store to a little convenience store and we we did little jobs on the side we sold certain things on the side and on top of it raising three boys rowdy boys like that that's what we and in the school we didn't it wasn't

like oh there's the car the bus is gonna pick you up at 3 7 a.m to go to, and the school, it wasn't like, oh, there's the car, the bus is going to pick you up at 3, 7 a.m. to go to school. No, the school was two miles away, three miles away. You're walking. You better get going. Don't be late. Because if you got, if you was late, you was going to get a whooping before school started. That's how it was. And especially the education system is so high because you miss a couple answers on a test.

You had to go out and get a switch and you were gonna get whipped in school for those answers that you missed it would beat you in school yeah absolutely the teacher the teacher the teacher was on first of all it's not teacher it's uncle and aunt that's your uncle and your aunt in school they knew your parents to do your family they were gonna whoop you in school if you decided to mess up and that's how it was so that's why there's a lot of these smart nigerians that get out and if there's no freaking job we gotta somehow make money it's so fucked up because i don't want people to beat kids but god damn when you put kids under that kind of pressure my parents put me in catholic school one year, and I got excellent grades.

And afterwards, I was fucking terrible. Terrible, man. And I remember my stepfather said something to me. He said, your grades were only good when you were in Catholic school. I was like, this guy was fucking terrified. Oh, my God. I'm like, it ain't a good move. I mean, it's like they were threatening me all the time.

They wanted to beat me and make me sit on a nail in the closet. But I would never want you to go through that. But the fact that you went through that is probably one of the reasons why you're the man you are today. That's humanity. That's what I call humanity. Because as human beings, when we're growing, and you hear this all the time with parents, I want a better life for my kids. I want a better life for my kids. I want a better life for my kids.

Yes, absolutely. That's what we want. We want to present them with endless possibilities. But you can't forget the fact that the reason you're the champion or the upstanding person that you are today is because you went through these hard things. All these hardships molded you. And that's part of the situation now is like everyone's like, oh, no, I don't want these kids to play these sports. It's too tough. They're too rough.

You know, they could get hurt. They can get that. Or that kid could turn into a freaking champion. He can get knocked on his butt 50 times. And that one 51th time, he gets up and says, you know what? Screw this. I'm going to be a champion today. There's also that you could do other things.

I think a guy like you could do anything. Once you've achieved what you've achieved in MMA and in wrestling, the kind of mindset that makes you push your body to the limit like that and allows you to get just your body into the kind of condition that made you fight five rounds like that against Tyron, that's an extraordinary mind. i'm thankful i'm thankful for uh and this one thing that i always say is i'm thankful for every individual that i've crossed paths with because when i really look back on my life and i internalize a lot of things like how did i was a little I mean, I was a freaking pipsqueak in Nigeria carrying this hot plate on my head to go sell, you know, up and down the street.

How did I never imagine that I would get to the point where I would run into all these different wrestling coaches that would pour knowledge into me, even if for every. And this is a shout out to every coach if you ever saw me i was drilling a move and you came over and just corrected me or you said no no no do it this way you know even if it's just a moment an inch in my life you did all of that contributed to the person that i am today to all those coaches all those people all my mentors that giving me advice each and every every one, because I never knew that I would cross paths. Like, look how crazy my life is. I crossed paths with John. First time I ever seen an MMA fight was with John Jones.

I won my belt on the same card as John Jones. You know, I stayed, when I went to visit John Jones, I stayed in the same room that Colby Covington stayed in the following year when he went to school with John Jones. How fucking crazy is that?

That's pretty fucking crazy. Jon's roommate was Joe Soda, who also is in the UFC. Like, you know, went to the University of Nebraska at Kearney, became a national champion. Same as Travelle, wrestled with Travelle DeLognan, Joe and Jake Ellenberger. Jake Ellenberger in the UFC, Joe Ellenberger in the UFC. Like, look at the paths that I've crossed in this life to get me to this point here. I'm extremely thankful, man. At the end of the day, there's nothing that I can do that I got to give it up. Like, this was a plan.

This wasn't me. I didn't control this. Say, you know what? When I'm 25 and when I'm this age, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that, do that, and it all come together like that. Like, I've been blessed. I've been very, very blessed to cross paths with all these guys and it's gotten me to this moment.

So I'm so thankful. Well, I think it's both. You've definitely been blessed, as all of us have, but besides just being fortunate, you went through the work. You went through the work and you completed the process. with a broken foot and a hernia, and still dominated him for five rounds is crazy. You don't get to that without having, you built your mind and your body in a very crazy way. In a way, through the fires of hard work and discipline, you forged a champion.

Yeah. I mean, thank you joe like that that's it's all it all goes back to everything like this is how my mind works it's ever since i was little i'm one of those guys i sound silly but i'm a one trip kind of guy when i go to the grocery store and i'm bringing all that shit in the house i'm a one trip carry it in one trip i'm gonna do it all i don't matter i don't care how much it is i trip guy. Carried it in one trip? I'm going to do it all. I don't care how much it is. I'm going to try to do it in one trip. And this is one thing that I say to myself

when I'm carrying all that stuff inside. Yeah, it hurts. Yeah, it's heavy. Yeah, this makes no sense. The house is literally 50 feet from the car. But in my mind, while I'm carrying all that heavy shit, I'm just like,

yeah, one trip, one trip. Get tough, baby. Get tough. Get tough. but in my mind while I'm carrying all that heavy shit, I'm just like, I am freaking. Yeah. We'll do one trip, one trip. Get tough, baby. Get tough, bit tough.

I've been doing that since I was a kid. Get tough, get tough. You can do it. You can do it. Get tough. Or when I'm doing sets of, of stuff reps and,

and you know, the coach is like, all right, four sets of 10. I'm doing 10. When I get to like 10, I'm like, I can do one more 11.

Let's get 11. Boom. Get an extra set in. I've been putting in extra set forever, forever, to where I feel like all that has built me up to where my mind is today. Well, your mind is there, but do you have a concern, like what we were talking about before with Cain Velasquez, that your mind might be too strong for the tissue too strong for the ligaments

too strong for the joints I mean this is what I worry about with a guy like you not that you're not mentally strong I have no fear of that at all my concern with a guy like Cain Velasquez there's certain people that I worry that they might

do too much or push too hard. But the fucking problem is the only way you become a Cain Velasquez or become you is to have that mindset to begin with. Joe, how else can you see Cain Velasquez fighting? Can't see it. Can't see him training any other way. That's what made Cain. Yeah. And I think that's all part of the plan like there's a time for everybody there's a time there was a time designed for tyron willie to become champion to be champion there's a time for me to be champion and to reign as a champion there's a time for everybody of course i'm and

like i said i like to take all this different knowledge that i get and i like to put it all together so of course my coaches are now that no one to tell me yo just go home like you you look great you've my mind i want to freaking go harder and they're like i don't know you've done great go home so where i'm listening and i'm giving them the lead on that but the way i train is what's gotten me here yeah and the way kane trained is what's gotten him there now it's the responsibility and not just kane but everybody else that's around him that he really confides in to to let him know when it's too much and when it's not too much yeah well with kane there's so many issues now because the surgeries have been so extensive and back surgery

and knee surgeries and reconstructions, not just meniscus like you, but the actual structure of the knee itself. One thing that I, yeah. One thing that I would always say is, um, Cain,

you, you can't always with, with Cain, with anybody else is the human body and the human mind is so powerful. You can never say, oh man, that's, it's over for that guy or that guy's never gonna be the

same no you never know you never know like kane you know much respect to kane kane can come back and be a savage and still run through guys for the next year or two for sure you never know that so i mean if he gets his knee fixed i don't know what the extent of that that injury was but yeah i'm you know i'm hopeful and uh optimistic that he's gonna be back soon you know but there's i feel like there's a time for everybody and if kane doesn't fight like that can you imagine kane fighting any other way a point fighting point fighting oh no let me you can't no you can't no that's why there's an argument that is the best ufc heavyweight ever he's for so for sure one of the best UFC heavyweights ever.

Absolutely. Not even a question. Yeah. Now, when do they have you fighting Colby? When is that supposed to take place? I don't know. You don't know? I think it's...

I have to get healthy first. For a long, long time, I've been fighting her. But I just... I don't care. I'm going to send you down to Panama Yeah I'm gonna give you That guy's number

We'll get off Definitely I'm gonna contact Dr. Reardon Give it to you I've been fighting hurt For so long Joe

Like whether it's a knee Or whether There's been training camps Where I can barely walk Like walk Not training Walk Walk

For I think the last two years, my daughter laughs at me. I come down the stairs backwards. Really? I go down the stairs backwards because it relieves pressure on my knees. Jesus Christ. And my daughter laughs at me. But it was a time where I couldn't walk. That's crazy.

Before the Leon Edwards fight, I fought Leon Edwards years ago. Before that fight, I could barely walk I mean I shit you not so walk down to and from the house like from the car to the house it was it was in pain I walked on grass I couldn't walk on concrete because I felt like that relieved a little bit more stress like that's the extent of the pain that I've been in in some of these fights that is fucking insane no this is during the camp? During the camp. Just to make it to the fight. Just walking on grass instead of concrete.

Walking on grass instead of concrete because these are softer. Jesus Christ. And it's not as much hard surface to walk on. So just when the fight came on, you just put it all aside? Yeah, when I walked through that cage, fuck it, let's go.

This is a matter of me getting maybe $10,000 or $20,000 thousand dollars let's go i chose to be here instead of sitting in front of it instead of sitting at a desk earning money to providing for my family this is how i'm gonna do it and like i said joe like my daughter lit a freaking fire under me joe yeah man i when i that was an adorable moment man and you had her you carried her i put Yeah, man. You put the belt on her. I want her to. She's looking around. Yeah. When she grows up, I want her to remember that forever because she lit a fire.

Remember we were talking about the tank that you have in there? Part of why I'm a little bit scared to be locked in those tanks is because I've never been claustrophobic ever in my life. I never was. But there was a time when I found out that I was going to have her. That my girl was pregnant with her at the time. I'm freaking living with Rashad Evans. I have no money in my bank account. I'm broke as hell.

And I'm having a child. and i'm not married yet and and these are especially these are these principles of your african parents like you gotta be married and things like that i'm not married yet of course her mom is a phenomenal woman phenomenal and i'm not married and all these things is happening i was fucking my mind i was panicking and i fight before that i just lost this was right after i lost the second fight now i'm getting ready for the third fight and there was this doctor doctor's office that we go in and sleep in the hyperbaric chamber because we heard it was better for your body and stuff like that so i'd be doing it here and there once a week i go in and sleep in the like the plastic ones they zip you up in there and it compresses up and i was in there and one time i was in there and uh i started thinking i usually pass out and when i it starts to decompress i wake up

i'm in that thing and i wake up you know but it hasn't decompressed yet you know so i never really thought anything of it i'm just kind of you know so i never really thought anything of it i'm just kind of in there and i'm in this office in this room it's dark because the nurses they flip the light off and they go on about their business tending to other patients and i'm like okay shit i gotta fight this fight i got i got i got choked out my last fight damn okay this shit might happen again. This dude, they say this dude is tough. They saying this dude is tough.

He can scrap. I'm about to have a daughter. Shit. I'm broke. I ain't got no money. I got to win this fight because I'm fighting for like $2,000. One at one. If I win $2,000.

All this shit is going through my head now. This tank hasn't decompressed. The room is dark. I'm hearing nothing. No nurses. So now I start to get hot. I'm in the thing and I start getting a little hot in the tank. I'm like, okay, so now my body's getting a little hot.

I'm laying there. Now I start dripping. My forehead is dripping sweat so i'm trying to control my relax bro you've done this so many times relax you got this you got this thanks you're good i can't see the clock so i don't know how much time has gone by now i'm freaking the fuck out my mind is like i'm stuck in tube. I don't know what's going on. Am I dying here? I don't know what's going on.

These people got to get me out of here. Oh, no. So I'm like, relax, relax. So I'm bringing my mind back. I'm relaxed. Take a deep breath. You good. You good.

What you worried about? Now, I'm having this conversation in my mind back and forth. I'm like, relax, you good. So I relax. I'm like, I think I'm going to knock in my mind Back and forth I'm like relax you good So I relax I'm like alright Think how you gonna knock this dude out Jab jab one two boom Okay so now I'm calm

I'm calm But what if he kind of with a left hand Boom now you knocked out Now I'm fucking sweating Jesus Christ Yo I said you know I was sweating so bad So I start tapping on the thing.

Like, you know, I don't want to freak out because I still got to be cool. I don't want to let these nurses know, like, I'm freaking out. I'm a fighter. I'm freaking out in this tank. So I'm tapping on the thing. I'm like, you know, trying to ask them, like, hey, how much time we got left? Just to at least hear another voice. Right.

Nothing. Nothing. They can't hear me because it's loud the tank is loud and i'm relaxed i'm full-on panic attack in there full-on panic attack and i'm trying to bring myself back i'm calming myself down and i'm sweating heavily like profusely now i'm dripping and all of a, I'm tapping this thing hard, and a nurse walks in. As soon as she walks in and flips the light, I hear the machine start to decompress. Oh, fucking thank God. And I'm like, she opens it.

You okay? I'm like, yeah, I'm good. You know, it's just, you know, I'm just getting a little hot. But I had a full- full blown panic attack in there. I have not been in a hyperbaric chamber since. I tried it one time. I probably could have done it, but I just. Was it helping you?

I couldn't really tell. My body was so damaged at the time. Like I'm so crazy on my body. It's hard for me to tell. It's supposed to heighten recoveries. Yeah, it's supposed to heighten it. But after that day, like certain things kind of make me feel a certain way. Like I've had tons of MRIs after that.

But they freak me out because you put me in the MRI machine, especially when you got to do the head one. I got to go in head first. I don't like those. I have to give myself a pep talk And calm myself down And go in there To do those now Like I just did one The other

Last week Before I had my surgery And the lady's trying To put me I'm like yo I just got an MR I got the disc From the last one

That I did last week The doctor said I could just bring This disc in And I'm good She's like The doctor wants us To get a new one

I'm like You sure about that like i already got the same disc here i'm like no we gotta do one i'm like how long is gonna be 40 minutes fuck 40 minutes because my shoulders are wide so i'm in there tight right and the machine is right here yeah it's making making a noise and i feel and it's like yeah i'm just it's uh i have to give my mind a pep talk and i'm just like relax bro what you mean man you good you you got this you can do this and i look at the room i'm like let's go let's go let's do it let's knock it out boom then we're doing it and god forbid i i freaking wake up or my mind starts wandering 20 minutes in then i'm just fucking halfway panic attack

through the rest but i'll get through it yeah it's scary but you know since that day you know um and it was crazy like i at that point when i was pregnant we were pregnant my daughter i was just like fuck am i gonna survive i can't keep asking this grown man rashad that works hard to support me i can't do that i gotta make my own i gotta do this so i was scared i was scared i didn't know what was gonna happen and then all of a sudden you know right when we're having her we have her boom boom the opportunity comes up. We're going to do the ultimate fighter. I said, no, I don't want to do the ultimate fighter.

And Rashad was like, really, bro, you got to do this. I fucking end up doing the ultimate fighter. Boom, I win the ultimate fighter. Boom, I fight for the finale. Boom, I do this. Like roller coaster. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. All the hard work, everything that I've been putting in, boom, starts paying off, paying off.

Now I'm making 10 and 10. Okay, you feel's that's enough to be able to you know sustain me until i gotta fight again i gotta fight again gotta fight again boom this happens this happens i get with you know amazing manager ali abdulaziz who freaking you know help just transform the career take it to the next level you know and get with him and now things are going the way that i you know i've been wanting them to go boom boom boom boom everything's man and it was just it's just motivation to keep working like and every time i look at my daughter how innocent she is how sweet and wonderful she is man it just freaking it transforms me to where i'm and there's a video i even have a video of uh

of her because she's been coming to the gym with me ever since she was six months old. I used to take her to the gym. Mom's at work. She'd come to the gym with me. And when she comes to the gym, she knows what I do. She watches me do it all the time. There's this video where she has gloves, and she hits the bag, too, when I work out. And I was doing a circuit.

I was getting ready for a fight. And she's running around with me and she's cheering me on she's like let's go daddy I'm so proud of him and like

telling that to my coach and she's like come on daddy like and I watch those videos and I'm just like I was always one of those hard guys

like man I ain't gonna be no sucker when I have kids like that I ain't gonna be acting like that I can't watch a video with her and not smile it's the craziest thing to me people who don't have children will never totally understand that no it's a different it's a different fire that they light underneath you man if you don't get motivated once you have kids you're never gonna get motivated no you probably shouldn't have just been doing that anyways. It changed my life for sure. Yeah, she is.

Man, she's my little rider. She rides with me. I love her to death, man. I can't explain it. I can't explain it. She's my plus one. That's what I call it. She's my plus one.

No matter whatever I do in life from now on, she's a plus one. She's with me that's amazing yeah i gotta find the video but it's so funny it's so funny when i'm i'm doing like a circuit and i'm running around and you can see her run around like come on daddy i'm so proud of him so she's just hanging out like no one's watching her no she's just hanging out with such a good little girl like that was in two six months old i put her in a stroll in her car seat and just put her by the side of the map boom she just watched me train for two hours wow two hours to when she got to you know a certain point where we had a like a

daycare in the gym and she would go in the gym. She would go to the daycare, and she was good there. And then to the point where now, the kids that are in our gym are around similar age. And our coach's wife, Henry Pookie, she does a good job. And she would just watch them. But they govern themselves. They would just play around on the other side and run around. But it's not like they're around harmful things in the gym.

They just have a good time there. That's great that you have that environment. Yeah, man. Like I said, a lot of people are like, oh, man, she's so beautiful. You're going to be, no, I'm not worried. My daughter's going to have a nice one-two and a hard low kick. And whoever can deal with that, hey, good luck. Wow.

Yeah, man. But yeah, she lit that fire. And I dreamt about that moment. It's so surreal, Joe. I think about that moment when you were interviewing me. I freaking forgot your name while you were interviewing me. I'm like, Joe, wait, your name is Joe? Yeah, your name is Joe.

It's got to be surreal when they put that belt around you for the first time. Yeah, because I imagined it so many times. Let me ask you something honestly. Do you like the new belt or the old belt? Initially, I used to talk shit. I was like, man, no, because that's the way you picture that old belt. Right, right, right. And we're human beings.

People don't like change. Right. That was the thing. It was like, oh, man, this shit look like a spaceship. But that fucking thing is phenomenal. That's your belt that's your belt phenomenal i that new belt now is phenomenal it's amazing it's beautiful it's beautiful of course i always wanted that old belt you know but now it's like comparing it to no like this new belt's got all those colors of this country flags on it and the stones it's amazing like you know the people that are all the ones that are still

hating on it and say oh no that looks crazy wait till you put that belt on you wait till you hold that thing and it's super heavy and i'm like it's amazing it's amazing i love it what did you think about that uh the deal today where all the pay-per-views are going to be on espn plus uh fucking ufc baby these guys are hey there's always a way to cut out the middle man Where all the pay-per-views are going to be on ESPN+. Fucking UFC, baby. These guys are, hey, there's always a way to cut out the middleman. Yeah, I guess so, man. Yeah. Hopefully, this is the thing.

My hope is now the pay-per-view scale for the fighters bumps. That's what I hope. I hope the numbers stay high. Yeah. People have to subscribe now To ESPN Plus I believe I'm not sure

That can't be Because if you're paying your money Unless you get it free Is that what it is, Jamie? It says you have to subscribe to ESPN Plus In order to get a pay-per-view How does that work with people that are out of the country i believe it's cheaper though i think it's the same price you're paying at the end of the day

because i think it was like 65 or 70 yeah but now you get a subscription 60 instead of 65 right and it comes with the subscription right so you have but you have to subscribe and you can cancel at any time so you can subscribe so you have to read What if someone only wants to buy one or two pay-per-views a year? They resubscribe every time? I guess. Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I mean, it works. I mean, if you really want to. I hope it doesn't mess with the numbers.

I wish Brandon Shaw was in here so he could talk some shit. You and I can't talk some shit about this. But if Shaw was here. Oh, man. Brandon, another guy. I think Brandon's doing. His shows got big. It's huge. Brandon, another guy. I think Brandon's doing... His show's got big. It's huge.

He's doing phenomenal. Yeah. I went to one of his shows down in... Florida? West Palm, yeah, Florida. And I fucking... It's Brandon Shaw.

I didn't think he was funny. I was like, it's Brandon Shaw. I was bored at night. I was like, let's go to a Brandon Shaw show. And I go, and he was freaking

funny like he told the whole he told the whole story man and i was impressed man man hats off to brandon's shop like he was funny he just basically all he did was tell his story of what's going on what went on in his life in his career but the shit the twist it was freaking funny that i went backstage towards the end i was like man that show was funny i didn't think you were funny but that was that was amazing i loved it well he's showing fighters that there's a path outside of fighting absolutely he makes way more money now than he ever made during fighting times and he's doing well and he's happy and he's he's fulfilled he's got two great podcasts that he's doing he does comedy shows just did just filmed a showtime special he's doing amazing that's amazing and which is oh excuse me part of um like all this whole shit people

giving tyrant and giving him shit for you know doing music or doing movies and all this stuff like that man no man i more power to him i'm glad that he's doing that because that's what we want you want all these different revenue streams where you don't have to get punched in the face until you're 50 you gotta have an exit strategy yeah

and I love that and I appreciate that that's what I want to do like can you freaking imagine me and Francis in the next Black Panther

like you can see it right like what perfect I can't see it what perfect we should definitely be in that whoever is making that movie casting for that hey yeah francis and gandu you don't need to teach us accents at all like i'm from i'm from mangeria there's no team you have to teach me i have my own accent you could teach them you know yeah i could teach them so authentic

yeah so you know yeah i i commend them for that man you know have you thought about an exit strategy absolutely like i want to do all that like i you know i've been commentating i work with titan fc down in south florida titan is an amazing show too you know i commentate some very good fighters come out of there very good like i mean they sometimes i'm watching fights i'm like fuck these guys fought each other for one and one. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Like, good, good tough fighters. They want to get into the big show. Absolutely. Yeah.

So, man, yeah, I commentate for them. I think that's on UFC Fight Pass, right? UFC Fight Pass, yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, I want to get into movies. I've been, you know, practicing. I think I can do it. Like, I'm not in no way saying what they do is easy.

Like, those actors, like, I know they work hard to be able in no way saying what they do is easy. Those actors, I know they work hard to be able to transform and make people feel a certain way and evoke certain emotions from different people with your characters. That's the real art. So I respect that, and I want to learn more about that. And yeah, I definitely want to do movies to get more famous, richer, and not get punched in the face. Oh, for sure.

Absolutely. What about doing a podcast? You ever thought of that? Yeah. I would love it. You're great at this. It's easy. I just haven't been approached with the right situation.

The beautiful thing about podcasts, you don't need anybody. Yeah. You don't need shit. You just need a fucking tape player. You could use it on your phone. You could record. There's great little tiny microphones That stick in the bottom of your iPhone

And it worked great And you just sit down and talk about shit Yeah, I have to give that a try What I don't want right now Is something that distracts me Because I'm not one of those guys Who are, oh yeah, I gotta fight And I gotta be in training camp

And if I don't have a fight I'm just doing whatever the fuck I want I freaking practice every day i'm going to practice because i it's like my life right now doesn't know i don't know what to do if i don't go to practice right so so while you're recovering from the surgery yeah i'm gonna try some different things does it feel good though to just like just slow down a little bit smell the roses not really because

this whole week I couldn't freaking train like I wanted to go to the gym and at least hit the back excuse me hit the back of something

or just you know cause I think I'm an addict of that burn of course that that burn of an workout

whether it's lifting or pushups or doing something pushing yourself yeah I'm an addict of that and so when I don't have that it's kind of push-ups or doing something pushing yourself yeah i'm an addict of that and so when i don't have that it's kind of like well that's what made you you and that's what made you the champion i mean that that engine that's inside you is what made you the

champion it only makes sense yeah well if you if you really could just relax and kick back i'd be nervous yeah i'd be like damn look at him, shifting gears already. That's what they say. They're like, oh, you changed now. You changed. You was a different person now. You know,

you don't got Hollywood on us. You don't, I fucking hate when people say that. Yeah, it's a gross thing people say. People just love to come up with some excuses

for why they don't do as well as you or why. Oh, one thing I was going to bring up too is I saw you do, because when I started

researching you and watching your stuff, I saw the podcast you did with freaking Jamie Foxx years ago or something like that. Fucking, I mean, I'm such a huge, I'm a huge Jamie Foxx fan. He's so fucking talented. I mean, talking triple threat. He can do anything. How many people can do things like- He does stand-up comedy.

Like, chicks are in trouble. Sings incredible. Yeah. Women are in trouble. Act his do anything. How many people can do things like... He does stand-up comedy. Like, chicks are in trouble. Sings incredible. Yeah. Women are in trouble. Act his ass off. Yeah. Oh my God.

Everybody's in trouble. He can make you laugh. He can make you laugh. He can serenade you with his voice. Yeah. And he can freaking act. A lot of dudes are lucky

he's not gay. How about that? They'd be in trouble. They'd be in trouble. Oh my God. He's fucking amazing, man. He's such a genuine guy too yeah like is is i mean i've known him for a long time but he's a fucking academy

award-winning actor when he comes in and hangs out with you you would never imagine it i i that's that's what i grab the energies like that is what i he's so normal it's like it's like we shot evans yeah shot is the same way yeah and those energies like i really gravitate towards yes and i love yeah people who don't take themselves seriously yeah but they do they do like they do but they don't pretend they're better than you or anything like i ran into jamie at a fucking gas station like uh six six seven months ago some guy wait what time was this normal time like during the day he's actually with his daughter she was coming from a martial arts class and uh i'm

getting gas and this guy pulls up in this crazy fucking car like i never saw one of these things before i forget what it's called some weird suv that looks like it's from the future like oh the lamborghini yes you know no it's not a lamborghini it's some crazy he knows the guy who makes them oh it's crazy i mean i don't even know what the fuck it is i never saw one before i'm like what is this thing and i'm looking at this thing and then the dude rolls down the window goes what's up joe i go oh what's up jamie i go what the fuck is this man yeah he's so normal he jumps out of the car and starts talking people just start coming up to him and he's like hey what's up how you doing every just totally normal you know what i i kind of i feel a little bit of that right now because it's i because i still do the same shit like i i'm still still go to the

same little nutrition shop that i go to get a protein shake here and there and i still go to the same like i took my daughter to the movies before I left. Yeah. So go to Ipik. And I just roll in. It's just me, me and her. Perfect. You know, we'll just freaking roll in. Keep that as long as you can. And people ask for pictures.

And I think one guy one time said like, bro, I can't believe you're here, bro. Like, bro, you serious, bro? Like, this one guy was like, bro, you here, bro? Like, who's mom, bro? Can I get a, bro, can I get a picture with you, bro? He almost like crying. I was like, bro, you here, bro? Like, who's mom, bro? Can I get a picture with you, bro? He almost like crying. I was like, yeah, bro, of course. You can get a, yeah.

You want me to take it? Which angle? You want me to take a couple? I'm snapping the picture and I'm kidding. But they just couldn't believe the fact that I'm normal. Yeah. You know, that people are just normal. People are just normal.

People are just people. They're just people. I think one of the great things about someone who accomplishes something is pretty spectacular. are just normal people are just normal people are just people they're just people and i think one of the great things about someone who accomplishes something's pretty spectacular is that you didn't just do that and win the world title but you set a lot of people in motion you know how many people watch that must been pumped up and excited about it and then started doing things there's probably a lot of people that decided to start fighting because of watching.

I mean, millions of people watched that fight. So stop and think about how many different people must have been inspired by that. How many different people saw the highlights on Instagram and on Twitter and on YouTube and how many people got fired up

because of that. And that's what I'm thankful for, Joe. I'm thankful for the opportunity. Shout out to the UFC for creating such a business and a market now into where it's you can touch so many people all across the world because that's and fighting is one thing that's a universal language it doesn't matter if you fucking speak russian you speak english or you speak you know igbo or yoruba it doesn't matter yeah you know fighting

right this this this you don't have to know the rules everybody it's not like cricket yeah it's universal

so it's one of those things that that's a sport that's gonna it's gonna grow it's only gonna get bigger and bigger man shout out to the UFC Dana you know Hunter

all these guys Lorenzo Fertitta all these guys that created this and packaged it to the way it is now because it's given us platforms to be able to touch people. And yeah, I truly am aware of what that could have done for certain people. Yeah, I might have not thought of individual person, but someone, you know, I might have inspired someone to start fighting that come from where I come from or somewhere in China, Indonesia, anywhere in the world. Yeah, so I'm thankful.

I'm very thankful for that. Yeah, I mean, that is a big part of what a champion is. I mean, we were talking earlier about Marvin Hagler or different fighters that I watched when I was a kid coming up. Those people give you energy. There's something about watching someone do something spectacular. They give you energy. watching someone do something spectacular, they give you energy.

And when you hear a story like yours, a kid who immigrates to the United States at eight years old and goes through all the shit that you went through and becomes a world champion, people hear that, man. It gets them off the fucking couch, man. It gets them to do things. It does.

And a thing about doing that fight is there was two other guys, two special guests that I had come to the fight. And they were both Nigerian nightmares, you know, in their respective sports. Christian Okoye, you know, Kansas City Chiefs running back was called a Nigerian nightmare because he was a fucking terror. You know who Christian Okoye is? I don't know anything about football. It was a fucking... Jamie's laughing. He laughing man knows who it is yeah he was a fucking

monster man he was like a i think he was 200 like 260 pound running back like i'm talking mac truck running through dude boom boom boom and you know and he had speed and power so he was considered a nigerian nightmare so he was one of those first guys that people really resonated as a nigerian nightmare in american sports and and i never watched him play live of course not but these are the guys that they create such a legacy to where when you're growing up somehow you hear about that legacy and that inspired me to want to be great bearing that nickname and also Samuel Peters I don't know if you know Samuel Peters

Samuel Peters WBC heavyweight champion of the world was at the fight oh no shit and man these guys I never saw him fight live

but he created such a legacy to where I heard about him I had to research them and these guys inspired me to where now having that nickname you gotta I have to hold it to the highest regards.

I have to do the best that I can to be able to inspire many, many kids that are going to come in the future. So, man, I'm thankful for the opportunity and just grateful. I'm a humble little kid from Auchi, Nigeria. I used to walk around barefoot step on nails glasses you know things like that

and now look where we at now we rocking shoes designers baby dude you're the UFC welterweight champion of the world undisputed

yeah man it's pretty incredible yeah does it feel real no I mean I still feel normal I don't feel anything but you know you're the champ

yeah I mean but I think part normal. I don't feel anything different. But you know you're the champ. Yeah. But I think part of why it feels the way it does is because I've known for a long time. Like, I've felt like it for a long time. I've known. Nothing's going to change the way I'm going to train for these fights. Nothing's going to change my mentality how I'm going to approach these fights. It's all the same. It's still a fight.

It's a fight. It's not, oh, I'm trying to defend this. Or i'm trying to hold on to this i don't give a shit i'm still going in there to dominate you from start to finish to break you mentally so you never want to freaking fight me again that's my approach to every fight so nothing changes i don't feel different everyone the only thing now is that's cool everyone's like treat me a little different people kind of you know people hold doors for me now and shit like that hopefully you're making a shitload more money well yeah let's let's all you heard that dana yeah hopefully uh hopefully that but um that's the only difference like i don't feel different i don't act any different at least

i don't hope not no when we were talking earlier about guys who like to trash talk and what trash talking is kind of doing for the sport whether it's good or bad you know and some guys are really funny with it like connor's fucking hilarious with it something about that that is like when jeremy stevens said something about me it's like who the fuck is that guy i mean the most famous line in fucking mma in sports yeah i mean it's i mean oh man i mean how many times has that been repeated oh shout out to jeremy stevens too i like jeremy man that was guys come to scrap always he's a beast yeah but i think that that's not the only way a guy can sell a lot of pay-per-views a guy can also sell a lot of pay-per-views. A guy can also sell a lot of pay-per-views by being exceptional. And that was the case with George St. Pierre.

George St. Pierre was never a trash talker and still sold a shitload of pay-per-views. I think as human beings, humans can kind of tell the energy. If it's a fake energy, I think people can tell. People are put off by it. Well, people are also enamored of people that are exceptional. Yes. You can just be exceptional. You don't have to just be talking shit all the time and pushing each other at press conferences.

It's not the only way. No, but then you get the majority of the shitty fans who likes that stuff, who wants to see it too. Yeah, there's a few who even though they know it's fake, they just still like that. They just want to see it. So they put that pressure on people.

Like, no, you got to do this. You have to do that because those are the guys that are going to tweet you. Does the UFC tell you to do things? Do they tell you? No. Do they give you advice

on how to talk? No, no. I mean, Dana's never once said you got to talk. You you to do things? Do they tell you? No. Do they give you advice on how to talk? No. No? I mean, Dana's never once said, you got to talk. You got to do this. You got to do that. No, they don't do that. Do you feel, though, that sometimes they show you that by favoring guys who do do that?

Like when Colby got a shot at the interim title before you? Yeah, because this is the thing is when someone starts doing that and they're starting to trend a lot more of course the company gets behind them because the company's about money it's about green like they gotta make money right and that's one thing that i understand more than anything right now they're about green like people say oh danny hates me because this and that they they the only race danny cares about is green like if you're going to make money Dana cares and so I think that once someone starts doing that and they're starting to create a little

they're starting to have a little buzz of course Dana's going to push because that guy might bring in money making more money so I understand that aspect of it but it's not I don't think it's Dana necessarily saying oh man you got to act like this

you got to do this because this is what sells no Conor did it and if connor connor became who he became so yeah connor is going to be favored because connor brings in millions and millions of dollars habib did it his way and now habib brings him when he you know he's favored so he's going to bring in money and things like that but then it's not going around saying yo you got to be like this guy you got to be like that guy you know bisping did it his way right you know and bisping brought in

money george did it his way it's just as long as you want to be real what you choose to do you're going to be real with yourself because at the end of the day you have to look at yourself in the mirror yes if you can do what you want to do and then at the end of the day look in the mirror when everyone's gone it It's just you. You take a piss in the morning and then you wake up and look at yourself in your mirror and you're like, I'm all right. Then that's fine. Do you. Beautiful.

Beautifully put. You're a bad motherfucker, Kamaru. My man, Joe, man. Thanks for doing this, man. Thank you. It's a pleasure. Thanks for telling people your story and inspiring people. And I wish you nothing but the best.

Thank you, man. I appreciate it. Kamaru Usman, ladies and gentlemen, the champ!