The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #61 with Herb Dean

Episode Date: April 10, 2019

Joe is joined by former fighter, certified trainer and current MMA referee Herb Dean.

Yeah, I was good five, four, three. I was good that day, but then the next day, like, oh. Live! And we're live, Herb Dean. How are you, sir? I'm good. How about yourself? So glad we're finally doing this.

You and I have talked about doing a podcast for the last, like, three years. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, yeah, I'm glad to be on it, yeah. Hang out with you, talk to you for a little bit. I think, and I've said this before You have the hardest job In the sport Other than the fighters Does the fighters

Obviously they have the hardest job You have the second hardest job Referee is the second hardest job In the sport It's a fucking hard job Like you have so much responsibility Yeah I think you have A really hard job

I think I think the talk How long do you talk for? It's just Hours Six hours Six hours And sometimes There's not always Something interesting To talk about I think the talk, how long do you talk for? It's just hours, six hours. Six hours. And sometimes there's not always something interesting to talk about.

And or sometimes, yeah. So I think it's amazing to be able to talk about that. It's not that easy. It's not that hard, rather. It's pretty easy. I mean, it's just a bunch of stuff's happening and you're calling it. And I'm a blabbermouth, so I can't shut the fuck up anyway. So if there's spots where this

it's not that interesting i'll just find something interesting to say all right but it's not that it's you know in terms of like what what's happening is happening you know what i mean the guy's getting hit a guy's getting choked there's a lot of crazy action going on and it's really pretty easy if you're a lifelong fan of martial arts like i am right right to call it you know as long as you're enthusiastic and you're interested in doing you know you got to treat it with respect you got to treat it for what it is you know you're trying to entertain people you're trying to uh use the your words in the most uh pleasing way possible you know you're trying to massage people's ears and in a way you know you're trying to you're trying to massage people's ears in a way. You're trying to also represent what you're seeing and how special it is.

Especially great fights. Yeah, I did it a little bit. Not for real. Somehow I used to do this thing that was for these people, Black Belt TV. And I was with Don the Dragon Wilson. And they were just like old fights. And we're supposed to commentate this old fight. And that's why I think it's hard because I was horrible at it.

Well, old fights are harder because you might know what's already happened. So you got to play dumb. So it's like almost like you have to be an actor as well as commenting on a fight. I think it would be harder to call an old fight. Yeah. Because in the back of your head,

you'd be like, I'm a big phony. Yeah. I know what's happening. This fight has already happened. I think they did that with some of the pride fights. I think some of the pride fights, they did the commentary after the action. Because you remember when pride would come on at like 3 o'clock in the morning, and we wouldn't get it until like a day later or something like that?

I remember one time. Oh, the worst is when one of your friends tells you. Because you wait. You don't look at the internet. I remember one time, oh, the worst is when one of your friends tells you, because you wait, you don't look at the internet. I remember I was training, I think I went and I trained with Savant one time. I don't know if you know him. Sure.

Yeah, and we had been in the car the whole time rolling. I was like, when I get home, I'm going to watch Pride. And then right before, I dropped him off at his house, right before he gets in the car,

he goes, oh, Vanderlei Silva lost. Oh, no. Or something like that. I think it was that. He said something like that. Yeah, we just went to bed. Oh, no. Or something like that. I think it was that. He said something like that.

Yeah, we would have to wait. Sometimes, like, there was a couple events where I feel like it was like a week or something crazy. Wasn't it? Mm-hmm. So you had to, like, stay off the internet for a week. Yeah, yeah. Which is good for me. You know, I could do it.

But, yeah. But you've got to also avoid all your friends who are little internet fanatics. They start talking. You're like, stop, stop. Yes. I don't know, but yeah. But you've got to also avoid all your friends who are little internet fanatics. They start talking, and you're like, stop, stop. I don't know who won yet. These days, it's so bad. If I go and I do a comedy show on the night of a big boxing match or something like that, my text messages tell me. People start sending me, they can't wait to spoil shit.

They're like, damn, Golovkin got robbed. I was like, what? What happened? Ah, fuck. And then I don't get to just watch it I want to just come home and hit the DVR and watch it I'll keep the fuck away from the news yeah yeah yeah yeah that's what I let me get home but then I'll it'll the text messages will get me it's almost like I can't even read text messages yeah yeah yeah god damn it it's funny but you don't enjoy a fight even if it's a great fight as much if you don't know if you know what happened yeah no no no you're not no you're you want to watch it for the first time yeah as it is yeah like i heard that uh gaethje knocked out

barboza and i was like wow yeah holy shit oh my god oh my God. Gage is a savage. He's a savage, man. He's got a special kind of savagery. There's some, you know, like, I guess it's all judged on a spectrum. There's some dudes that are just so ferocious. They're just so willing to wade into battle. Yeah, and to engage. That guy just engages. It's a weird willingness to engage almost, like an almost fearless willingness to engage. That guy just engages. It's a weird willingness to engage almost,

like an almost fearless willingness to engage. It's very unusual. And when he's in there getting it, that's when it seems like he's at his happiest, right? It's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. I ref the fight like that.

I ref a lot of fights in um in russia so i refereed a fight with uh this guy balayev marat balayev versus salman uh man it was for a championship uh aca man these these guys went to war he um he heard him early on and uh had him you know almost put out and then he came back by lay of loss but it was his his i mean as an older gentleman he's over 40 pushing the pressure and made a really uh yeah but you could i saw that energy come out like when he was struggling through the hard times you could tell that like you know some sort of battle joy was on him you know i mean he's that kind of guy battle battle joy. Battle joy. You know what I mean? Yeah.

You hear it like, oh, he's in it, you know? Battle joy is real shit. Yeah. Uh-huh. Battle joy. Diego Sanchez is all full of battle joy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a perfect example.

It didn't die with the Vikings. People are experiencing battle joy to this day. Oh, yeah, there's my man right there. There it is. Yeah, yeah. You just look at the fucking bodies covered in blood and you know and they're as happiest happy as they can be god damn that dude's face is busted up

yeah it's um did you see the bare knuckle fighting i haven't watched any of them yet i watched some exchanges between it's just it's hard to watch it's weird i i was a big proponent of bare knuckle i was like they should fight bare knuckle because it's ridiculous that you pat up only your gloves but you don't pat up your elbows or your shins or knees but um jason knight versus artem loboff was uh it was a weird fight to watch, man. I mean, they beat the fuck out of each other. I heard, yeah. They both came out of it super cut up, man. Like a lifetime's worth of cuts in one fight.

Yeah, and you saw that. It's like, I think it's going to be, it looks like the, I saw their faces. That looks like it's going to be some long healing. Yeah, man. I mean, these guys beat the shit out of each other bare knuckle. And it is kind of weird that you do recognize, first of all, they're not really, they're bare knuckle, but they're not bare wrists. Like, look how their hands are all wrapped up to prevent them from breaking, which is interesting.

It shows us how fragile our hands really are. No, no. Yeah. And so that's why I didn't really think that a bare knuckle was going to be that i knew uh that more uh intense but when i'm seeing some of these matches they are uh really intense but at the end of the day i think the bottom line still the most dangerous weapons i think are the elbows and knees right yeah uh for cuts for sure and for damage i mean those knees that john jones hit uh brandon vera i mean those elbows john jones hit brandon, for sure. And for damage. I mean, remember those knees that Jon Jones hit Brandon Verrill?

I mean, those elbows Jon Jones hit Brandon Verrill with? Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. No, Jon's, from the mount position, from the top, he's got some of the most horrific elbows of all time. Even from the guard, right? Yeah, from anywhere. Yeah.

Remember Tito Ortiz never passed guard? Never passed guard. Just beat everybody up from inside the guard. Smashed him. He was an expert. Joe Schilling's last fight, he cut that dude up real bad, all from inside the guard. It was horrible. Ground and pound with his elbows.

Yeah. Yeah, but I think for the most damage, I think it's like a wheel kick to the head. Yeah. Like, that's the most, like, remember when Barboza fought Adam? Yeah, yeah. That's like the most damage. No, the wheel kick to the head is, and that's, man, that, yeah, who used to do that wheel kick to the head? He just fought a guy.

He's from Canada. Oh, from Canada. He just fought, but he didn't do a wheel kick. He didn't do it. He used to get everybody with a spinning back kick. And he's a UFC guy? Yeah. Short, thick guy.

Is it McDessie? John McDessie? Yeah, John McDessie is a Taekwondo guy. Yeah, how many people? He caught a couple of people with a spinning back kick, right? Probably. I mean, he's caught people with a lot of stuff. He's got a full kicking arsenal but yeah originally like a taekwondo background

yeah um it's it's it's amazing that you're seeing all these different styles that it's still even all these years in there's all these different styles of fighting like they're completely different you got like the Ben Askren style still. Just grab a hold of him. Use your superior wrestling. Beat his ass. And then you got style bender style. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just full on, super technical striker tricking you, setting traps.

As a person who loves striking, it's an interesting time. There's so much variety. There's so much shit going on. And it's so funny because so many things come back and they go back and forth and there's all these things that people are telling you you're not supposed to do this or this isn't going to work and then someone comes up and shuts it all down says yeah no this is going to work and so it's it's it's so it's always so exciting how about that russian dude what is his name the guy that only nick who oh yeah gets people with the fucking, he gets people with an Ezekiel from the mount.

You're mounting him and he Ezekiels you? Yeah, yeah. All the time, right? All the time. Yeah, Ezekiel will mount. He gets it from your guard. He's in your guard and Ezekiels you. And he's, yeah, and that's exactly the guy.

Like, he's that guy who everybody is. Yeah. That is a crazy grip the way he does it. You can see how tight it is. That is amazing that he does that. No, he has grip like no... Because he... I mean, he does scarf chokes, scarf hole chokes to people.

He's done it to quite a few. And I've seen he laces it up a little different. I think he did one. But he does stuff that nobody else does. Scarfold chokes are legit. You've got to remember, like, Josh Barnett tapped out Dean Lister with a scarf hold choke. That's true, yeah. But I think he's done two people with that, right?

He did one guy in the UFC with it. And I think he did it to Crow Cop. I refereed him in Crow Cop in Russia once, in Moscow. And he did one to Krokop. I refereed him and Krokop in Russia once, in Moscow. And he did it on the Krokop. Yeah, that Scarfold choke, if you've got a real, like, you know, like that guy, like Olenek does, that kind of death grip. Yeah. Those guys, which brings us to the last fight, man. Yeah, when we speak death grip.

Yeah, that Ben Askren fight. Dude, I've watched that fight. I've watched that finish like 10 times, trying to figure out what happened or whether he was out or whether he wasn't out. I was pretty convinced that at one point in time he went out. And then Kamaru Usman changed my mind. Kamaru Usman showed the – we watched the videotape together. He's like, no, no, no. He's giving the thumbs up.

And I'm like, shit. Yeah, okay. So I'm still – because the angles I've seen haven't been the best. I'm trying to see a thumbs up and i'm like shit yeah okay so i'm still because the angles i've seen haven't been the best i'm trying to see this thumbs up was the thumb going up or was the thumb in a thumbs up position going this way right like as the arm drops was the thumb in a thumbs up okay so when i give somebody a thumbs up like i'm gonna say somebody good job you want this good job buddy right good job that's what you want that's what i want to do you know so i i mean i don't know like i mean i so what i'm nobody's gonna know whether he was conscious or unconscious what i saw i saw

everything that would indicate i'm seeing an unconscious fighter i see an arm go limp for no reason whatsoever and um so that's what i that's what i have to work with because that's what you know we don't know what someone's feeling or whatever. We just see if they're doing something that doesn't make sense and you see an arm go limp at that time, you're going to assume that the person's unconscious. We assumed it. Yeah. As the broadcast team. Yeah, I can hear you guys.

And then I'm supposed to do certain things. And like, so here's the thing with that choke. When I'm refereeing fights, you know, there's some times where you know some positions are anxiety like uh you know you see two guys going after leg locks you see a noodle mess of legs and you know you gotta you're gonna have to help one guy out and figure out who's tapping and make sure you're on the right arm when i see some chokes a rear naked choke especially the guy in the back face up i take a side relief my job just got so much easier. This guy, you know, it's not like he's going to go out and then a second take some extreme amount of damage. He may go out. I'll have

a second to make sure, not even a second, a half a breath to make sure he's okay. And then let it go out and he's not going to take any other damage. A bulldog choke, we have, anytime you have a choke where somebody's, where, where there's pressure on the neck and there's been, been in the C spine backwards like that, that's a, that's a rough situation for me. So I see someone go limp and I know that on top of it, they're no longer putting tension on their neck and their neck is just being bent. I can't, I, you know, I can't see that I should do something different than that. Because I like to talk to people about this. I like to talk to people who have opinions about fights, especially people who are interested and who they know what they're talking about.

Because if I always have a situation, if I always have a mindset that I'm always doing the right thing, I can't get better. So I'm going to have to look at something and say, is there a teachable moment there? Is there a way I can learn from this? And is there a way I could do something different? And no, I don't think. I think with that same situation, with an arm going limp, with that type of a choke on someone, I don't know of a defense that requires the arm. You know what I mean? I would think the arm should be doing something else.

At this time, I don't see that I should do something different. You know, I'm always interested and always looking and I love these type of conversations. But right now, I can't think of... And to sell you something, it was an amazing fight. It was. Yeah, it was. I mean, first of all, it was the first time I seen

a referee been asking. I don't think I'd refereed him before. And his pressure is something special it's not the normal and uh the way robbie dealt with it and robbie had him and he had him in trouble you know i was so close to stopping that fight when they're on the ground yeah so many times yeah yeah with some bombs yeah the the amount of respect i have for those two athletes man it's like so that's so that's that's the thing. We never want to see anything that could make you have a feeling

that it's inconclusive. But I can't think of what else I should have done. But, you know, especially for that fight for those two guys. You always want people to have a feeling of conclusion there. Well, when we talked about on the phone,

when you brought up the damage, the possible damage to the neck with the bulldog choke, you might be cutting off nerves and you might be bending the spine in a kind of a fucked up way. I really hadn't considered that. When I was thinking of the choke, when he grabbed hold of him, I was just thinking it was a blood choke. But you're right. The way you lean in on a bulldog choke, you lean back.

That's a lot of pressure on the neck. I've had some chokes where I've refereed a fight where a guy did one of these moves. You had a move for it. A technique where he's bending the spine backwards. Twister? It wasn't a twister. I think guys have a name for it. Do you know what the executioner is?

So that's what it was. That's what it is. Can I explain it to people? What that is, is like if That's what it is. Can I explain to people what that is? It's not to cut you off. For so long, I've never really wanted to talk about it because people weren't doing it. This was years ago I saw it. But now if there's a name for it, I guess it's okay. But you hadn't seen a lot of people doing it before, right?

Well, we started doing it in Tenth Planet a few years back. I think people have done it. What it is, basically, folks, it's like a guillotine from the back. It's like rear naked choke hooks, but instead of choking a guy this way, which is how you would do it, which is wrap your forearm underneath his neck and wrap the other arm behind his head. Instead of doing that you wrap your arm all the way around the front like a guillotine hold but from the back and you have ungodly leverage right it's ungodly how much pressure you can put on someone's neck and

our friend scott epstein he uh he used it quite a few times so we called it the executioner is that it there oh i'm trying to find a picture of one. Is he about to pull this arm? Is that what he's going to do? No. No, let me see. This says the Executioner Choke. This is a different choke.

He calls it the Absecutioner. I looked that up, and nothing came up. Okay. I think I might have it here for you. Something like this. This is a little different. This guy had arms in. This is different, but it's similar.

Oh, yeah. It's similar, though. It's similar. Yeah, you could have arms in. This is different, but it's similar. Oh, yeah. It's similar, though. It's similar. Yeah, you could have arms in. Yeah. Yeah, that's the same thing. Yeah, this is it. That's 100% it.

So, I don't know if we're going to show people that. Right. Either way, it's a real bad place to be in. Oh, this guy got it? Yeah. That's Scott Epstein. That's the North South Choke. the the north south choke is that it or is that uh but what he would do if he wanted to do an executioner is he would get his hips underneath the guy and get um back position this is just a really good uh

north south choke so yeah so what i saw was the guy went north-south, and he, this was years ago at a King of the Cage way out in Wisconsin. And he had, wow, this was a long, long time ago. He had north-south, and he sat up. Once he had the guy, he sat up and pulled the guy's body up onto him in almost a sitting position and then put hooks. Right. And then I've done it before where you all roll the guy to the side you know but just to walk it through and figure out how how it worked um he put hooks and i was sitting i was like okay this isn't illegal if i stop this fight it's not

you know or this is not an illegal move but i don't want to see how this plays out and the guy got one hook in and almost the second hook was about to go in. The guy tapped, and when I pulled him off, the guy couldn't move. His neck was fucked up. Yeah, he couldn't move. You know, he had some sort of stinger. I don't know what's going on. He couldn't move.

He was terrified. I was terrified. Yeah, and then it kind of, you know. Came back. Came back, yeah. Jesus. And then it kind of, you know. Came back.

Came back, yeah. Jesus. Yeah, I know of several guys that have gotten paralyzed because of defense from guillotine. Or trying to take a guy down. Right, yeah. You know, when someone gets you in a guillotine. Yeah, I've heard of that, yeah. So that's why with some submissions, you know, especially some of the chokes, it's like, okay, things are slowing down and, okay, things are getting a little bit easier for me. With that one, things are not easy at all.

That's not something that I want to play with. I think if, you know, I'm kind of disappointed with some people have a platform. I don't want to mention any names, but some people have a platform. I've kind of tossed it out. It was something sensational and say, oh, look at this. Is he wrong or right? I think that's a little irresponsible when it's some dangerous techniques like that. Well, I think you really pointed that out about the neck in a very important way.

And I think that's something that people should really take into consideration when you see someone. Have you ever refereed someone who got caught in a twister? Yeah. It's a horrible place to be. Yeah. It's a horrible place to be. Yeah, it's a horrible place to be. Your neck is so fucked up and there's so much pressure. And the fact that your left leg's isolated and your head's getting pulled. It feels like it's going to break.

It's a fucked up place to be, even for the fact of the way it's set up. Because it's not like a fast thing that catches you off guard. It's a long road to it. So you know it's coming. You know it's coming. And you're like, I'm doing this. But I know how this is going to probably end. And you're doing some little.

Yeah. There's Chan Sung Jung. Korean zombie. I think he got the first ever one on Leonard Garcia. I think that was the first. Look at that. In the UFC. That is so horrible, dude.

That is so bad dude that is so that is so bad that feels so terrible yeah and that that's uh he then there's defcon 4 when you take a rear naked choke grip from the twister position oh yeah okay and that's just you just ripping dude's heads clean off it's horrible you know those all those crazy like catch wrestling neck manipulation right right right right Those things make my My neck hurt Just looking at them Yeah yeah

Yeah Yeah so anyway Yeah that's That's what I think You know you can't Always say look at things As good or bad But you know

Some situations I've seen referees in And that one I think Is a difficult situation Not so I've seen other Harder situations But you know what I mean

Like Yeah It's an unusual one. Yeah. I mean, we've seen quite a few bulldog chokes that put someone unconscious. Most recently, Raquel Pennington against Ashley Evans-Smith was a crazy fight. Crazy fight. Raquel Pennington is so fucking tough.

I mean, that was just a crazy fight, man. It was just war and chaos. And then with like one second to go she chokes her out and then lets her go and she's uh she's asleep from the bulldog choke and ashley evans smith steps up covered in blood i mean it's fucking crazy that was crazy but there's that one um didn't chris lights out lytle catch tiki in a bulldog choke? I think he did. Maybe. Of course, Carlos Newton won the title. Yeah, that's the, yeah, that looked really tight.

Yeah, go, forget that. Go to. Yeah, that's the one. Go to Carlos Newton chokes out Pat Miletic. Because this was for the title and he caught him in a bulldog choke. And it is, like, that was, I don't think we had a name for it. I think we used to call it a schoolyard headlock back then. Somebody called it a bulldog choke. I don't think we had a name for it. I think we used to call it a schoolyard headlock back then. Somebody called it a bulldog choke at that time.

I remember people were calling it a bulldog choke. Oh, like it already had that name. I don't know if it had that. Maybe they gave it to him, but yeah. It's a legit move. It's a legit move, especially if you're a Ben Askren-type dude with that kind of grip. You've got to hold someone's neck in that position.

It's horrible. Yeah. type dude with that kind of grip right you gotta hold someone's neck in that position yeah yeah it's horrible yeah that was um that's why i say that referees have the hardest job because you're you're in that situation you do have to take those things into consideration what kind of damages is doing to this guy's neck is he out his arm went limp okay when do i step i gotta get i gotta save him like yeah no that that is the tough part about it. You know, we're evaluating a situation as always. There's different, you know, and you're evaluating a threat to the person. You're evaluating if there's a threat coming, how much, how well can they deal with it? There's a lot of stuff going on there. And, you know, we take it really serious.

I take it really serious. To me, it's, I feel that I have a sacred trust. I feel that it's one of these positions that like our athletes are not stupid people a lot of them could be doing a lot of things with their life and they've chosen this path to uh and they take time from their family they take time away from other careers where they could be progressing and all to meet their dreams and hopes and i need to balance that with their safety so it's something i think about a lot you know what I mean um I'm uh even in the way uh I talk to my friends you know what I mean to always uh you know I I'm always on I'm always working as a referee anytime I'm out in the streets

or with friends people are going to ask me what do I think about this fight or who do I think can be better and I because of this job you're doing you don't longer have the the luxury of having you know of talking about mixed martial arts in the fun way about who's going to win and how's this going to happen. Because who knows? I might referee the fight. Right, right. And everyone's going to be on the internet. Herb's refereeing the fight, and we were having beers yesterday.

Guess what he told me? Right, right, right, right. Yeah, so I take it serious. No, you do, and I'm glad you have that attitude. What is this one right here? Oh, yeah, this is Carl. This is Carl's right serious. No, you do, and I'm glad you have that attitude. What is this one right here? Oh yeah, this is Carlos right here. In the transition, he grabs the neck. And it's a crazy visual too, because the photograph,

you see the muscles right there. That is crazy muscles in Carlos' arm and shoulder and neck. Look at that, Carlos Newton, champion of the world. Right there, that moment. Isn't that crazy? Carlos had some spectacular grappling real early on, man. Wild transitions. Yeah, he was amazing.

Beautiful jiu-jitsu. His explosiveness, his agility. I mean, he was so athletic, he was doing stuff that no one else. He also had a really high-level submission game early on, like in 96, 97. A lot of people didn't have that kind of a game, and his submission game was tight. The Matt Hughes one was crazy. Remember that? Yeah, yeah.

That was crazy. That triangle choke where he had him up. Yeah. He puts him to sleep, and as they get up, Matt Hughes, you hear his coroner saying, stand up, you won, you won. He's like, what happened? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Double knockout, yeah.

I have that one. I have one of the King of the Cage double knockout. There it is right here. Look how goddamn strong Matt Hughes was. He was so fucking strong. That ability. He holds him up there and and Carlos is trying to— Oh, he's squeezing.

He's squeezing. So Matt goes unconscious. He's out cold. He doesn't know what's going on. No one knows what's going on. And they—so Carlos' head hit the ground when he went down like that. That knocked him out. Right, right, right.

And then Matt woke up from the choke, and they like you won yeah it's great that was a crazy scene that that scene was a tough one that was like what do you do there yeah well that was like the thing about this robbie lawler ben askren fight like usman was saying they gotta run it back and i was like it wouldn't be a bad thing to run it back i mean well at the same time you know we got to be honest here like as far as running it back how many of the fights that happen in the ufc are there because it's exciting what people want to see yeah most right so brock lesnar dc is a perfect example right so that's exciting as people want to see it and and some of the excitement has been generated by throwing me under the bus.

But cool. Cool. Give the people another time. I'm taking it. I got big shoulders. I can take it. You handled it great. But, yeah, no.

So, yeah, I think, you know, anytime that, you know, the athletes get to do what they do and people are going to watch it again and people are going to be excited about it, you know, I don't know. Well, I don't think it's going to happen now, at least not immediately, because Masvidal and Ben Askren have a date for July. They're going to do that July show in Vegas. That's a great fight. I like that fight a lot.

Right. That fight's... Masvidal's in a new place, man. You could really tell. Yeah. He's something special right now. He's something really special. When he knocked out Till like that, I was like, whoa.

When he knocked out Cowboy, I was like, wow. Yeah, no, Masvidal's a beast. He's so good, man. And he seems like extra focused right now. You know, like I think he's probably like, what is he, 35? Somewhere in that range? How old is he that old, huh? How old is Jorge Masvidal?

He's either 34 or 35 he's coming on soon having him on the podcast soon it's 35 in november yeah so he's at that stage of his career um where you kind of like look man how much more time do you got like realistically as a professional mixed martial arts fighter at 35 years of age you know if you're anderson silvey you have like three more what do you have like three more years of his prime two more years something like that right you get to be 38 39 like that's kind of it you know unless you're doing something unless you're doing something to spice up the pot all right you know like 40 41 42 man tough tough to compete yeah tough to compete on Yeah, tough to compete. On the natch.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's a whole other. This TJ thing is a bummer. That's a bummer. If you don't know what we're talking about, TJ Dillashaw tested positive for injectable EPO, which is a serious performance-enhancing substance.

And in some circumstances, according to Jeff Novitsky, it's given people strokes. And I had heard this too, that like young guys doing like tour de France type shit would have strokes because they were taking too much EPO. Cause you know, like if you're supposed to take one,

take two, fuck it. Right, right, right, right, right, right.

That's the mentality. Anybody who's going to do that. Yeah. Yeah. That, you know, I shit turns your, your, right, right, right. That's some mentality. That's some mentality. Anybody who's going to do that. Yeah. You know. That shit turns your blood to paint. And I think that's, I guess that's probably the discipline, right, of how people were always getting away with things beforehand, right, is to try to maybe try to do it in a way where they won't get caught. But I think that's like, oh, if this much is good, then this much more is going to be better.

Yeah. And we know guys who've done that with TRT. There was a few TRT tests when TRT was legal, testosterone replacement therapy, where you would hear about guys testing like 1,400s, 1,470, which is insane. It's like superhuman. No person's ever lived that has 1,400 as a natural walking around testosterone level. That's crazy, superhuman. No person's ever lived that has 1,400, like as a natural walking around testosterone level. That's crazy, hyperhuman. Right. But they just get these benefits from that. Well, some of these people, though, who walk around naturally, I wonder if they've never been tested, though.

That's true. Yeah. Some of these people I see walking around, I'm like, man. Genetic freaks. Yeah, that dude looks like he was born on steroids. Yeah. There are some freaks, man. Yeah. There are some legit genetic freaks.

To deny that would be crazy. There's some people that just, like Yoel Romero. I mean, what in the fuck? It doesn't matter how many steroids you take. It doesn't matter what you do. To look like that, you have to be a genetic freak. Yeah, and they're out there. They're walking around.

It's not fair. Yoel was talking about, he was saying, go to Cuba. He was like, go see out there. They're walking around. It's not fair. Yo, I was talking about, he was saying, go to Cuba. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go see the jeans. Go see the jeans. Go to Cuba.

Look around. Yeah, what's his name? What was it? The fighter from France, the heavyweight from France. I mean, he was- Francis Ngannou? Well, yeah, Francis Ngannou

was a guy who used to be the one who had the crazy fat with Pat Barry. Oh, Czech Congo. Czech Congo, man. Oh, yeah, Francis Ngannou was a guy who used to be the one who had the crazy fat with Pat Berry. Oh, Czech Congo. Czech Congo, man. Oh, yeah. Adonis. Yeah. Sculpted.

Greek statue. Yeah. I just always imagine, like, I want to go to where he comes from. I want to just take a look around. Probably super athletes. Yeah. Probably a lot of meteors. The TJ thing, apparently they went and tested his old fight

uh piss with cody too and that tested positive for epo as well and then cody started freaking out yeah what do you do if they if they go back like what if they decide to go back hey and say fuck it let's test all the fights and it finds out that he was doing it like five six seven fights what do you do well yeah and then what do you do if you uh but then it's a whole nother can of worms too because like all the fights and then what about all because right like are we gonna test everybody yeah brendan shab and i were joking around last night and i was like test them all and he's going no i'm gonna test them all test everything let's find out let's know what it was let's know what it was and he's like what if they had piss samples

from you know 10 years ago 15 years ago like what if they could use usada style testing today from the past i'm so glad that all these things are above my pay grade. Yeah, you don't have to deal with that. Yeah, man, if I was the guys in the office right now in charge of that program, you have to really wonder where is the line. You certainly want to test a guy for a fight that happened a week ago. You certainly want to hold and check if some new testing methods come out. If there was a fight from a year ago you certainly would check that how many years back do you go though yeah especially if it's not expensive like what if it's easy and cheap to do a test so you just run 500

tests on the last 500 championship fights and then you have like 400 fights that you now have to like change the result of yeah i don't know i don't know either yeah yeah last night i was joking around i was saying test them all i was i was taking the the fun position test them all i don't know i mean look we all know at one point in time performance enhancing drugs were a huge part of mixed martial arts. And that's why the UFC stepped up and decided to institute this program. I think it's a big part of professional sports in general. Sure. 100%. Yeah.

And I think that combat sports has a government oversight that other sports don't have. So I think that it's going to be coming up regardless anyway. So I think maybe that's why the UFC took a position, right? Because I think of the other sports, I mean, guys get caught doing things, but a lot of the other sports regulate themselves, right? Yeah, I don't know. I think the NFL regulates itself. What other sport has a government body like an athletic commission

saying, hey, we're going to show up and do this or do that? I don't know. What do they do with baseball? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know much about other sports, but I've never heard of... I'm just like you. I've never heard of like a... We all know about... That's something different in our sport

is that the government's involved. We should have a commission. Not like he's saying a government commission, but they're governing themselves. The NFL would have a vote. They hand down a suspension. They're not fair from this guy's suspension to that guy's suspension. In baseball, they have like a three-strike rule. The first time is like somewhere in the 10 to 25 game range,

and then the second one is like half the season. The third one, you're out for a whole year, and if you do it you do it again you're banned yeah but there's no outside government body right who shows up and decides to test your champion right just the baseball or nfl or basketball deciding what what's the well let's say you have a big money maker in your sport and then somebody outside of your company just comes along and says yeah i'm i'm a government body i have the right to test this guy yeah like what happened with Jon Jones. Yeah. I mean, that's a perfect example.

I mean, the UFC did not want Jon Jones to test positive. He is the biggest star right now other than Conor, and Conor's not active, and Jon Jones is fighting all the time. He wants to fight all the time. But that's the only way you ever find out what's really going on is you hire a bunch of werewolves and they just let them loose right go check piss go go out there check check everyone they check the shit out of people i was looking at this uh list of people that holly holmes been tested more than like i think i think novitsky might have put it oh steep a mio chick tweeted it because he'd been tested 38 times really yeah some people it's like in the 40s chris cyborg got tested a lot

yeah and holly holm got tested a lot huh yeah yeah holly holm got tested a lot a lot of people got tested um it's just uh like crazy numbers and a lot, I guarantee you, they're waking them up. Yeah. Getting them up like 6 in the morning. That's what I've heard. I mean, I don't know what they go, but I've heard conversations a little bit. It doesn't seem like it's. No, they want to make sure you're there so they get there real early.

Early in the morning. But that's fucked up. And you're supposed to tell them where you're going to be at. Yeah, yeah. The problem is if you're training hard, that 8 to 10 is so huge. You might get hit with a punch. If they wake you up after like six hours or five hours, it's possible that a punch might connect on you that wouldn't have connected if you got 8. That's not bullshit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's real. That's real, right? That's real. Everybody knows how you feel good in the gym. Even if you just lift weights, there's days you feel good, there's days you feel like crap. I made sure I showed up here well-rested.

You look well-rested. And I'm hydrated. I'm like, did we get bathroom? I did, I did hydrate. Good for you. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's just not smart to stop athletes in the middle of their training camp

and wake them up. I mean, I get the testing, but I feel like the testing's so sophisticated. could get to them at noon okay just you could get to them at noon you got good testing now just but we don't we i mean i don't know that i don't know that either i'm talking shit yeah because i think the best time right the best time is that you know maybe the earliest earlier the better right maybe i don't know the thing about this epo apparently and this is what a shop was telling me was that they didn't it didn't used to be uh detectable uh the way it is now they've they've got these new methods of detection

and uh epos one two that apparently from what i've read don't listen to me i'm not a doctor um they can absolutely tell that you injected it it's uh it's injectable it comes in the injectable form that's what's in the body so there's no chance of a tainted steroid or tainted uh uh supplement right right it's definitely epo so that's that's fucked up because apparently that stuff has a giant advantage um it gives you an anabolic advantage it also gives you crazy recuperative powers. So you could train really hard and then be ready to go the next day. What do you think the answer is?

Because for me, this is all stuff that, to be honest, I don't really pay that much attention to it because I don't have – it's out of my wheelhouse to deal with. But also, it's hard to have an answer. Like you said, do we go back and keep testing? Then when these new things come, it's just – What dohouse to deal with but also it's hard to have an answer like you said like do we go back and keep testing then when these new things come what do we do with the history books it's very interesting what do you do with the history books that's what you'd say

if you have samples that date back 10 years do you test them all what do you do I don't know how long they keep samples or who has them or how they you know what's the chain of command um i don't know man it's just but if you find out that tj tested positive for the cody fight too well cody sure has an argument there and what if it's the fight before that what if there's a lot of there's a lot of people who have arguments yeah

there's a lot of guys yeah so it's yeah it's tough to me, it's a shame, too, because I'm a TJ fan, and I think he's a phenomenal fighter. And I'm a big fan of watching him perform. But just it taints his legacy. It just does. There's no way around it. When you get caught cheating, which is this stuff, there's no way it's not cheating i mean this is just cheating right i mean this isn't any accident it's it taints your legacy right and the guy had an amazing legacy you know two-time bantamweight champion one of the best pound for pound fighters

the way he beat hennon burrell i was like holy shit so he went out and fought hennon burrell he was sparring with right yeah yeah his the stuff, some of his fights were amazing. He's amazing. Yeah. It doesn't take away from the fact that he's amazing. TJ's an amazing fighter. But fuck, man. To test positive for EPO in a Henry Cejudo fight.

It was also crazy to watch the progression, all the work he did and how much he was getting better every fight. So focused. But you've got to think, if you're on EPO, how much does that really allow you to train extra time? How much does that allow you to recover? What is the quantifiable benefit? It must be pretty significant because there's a lot of you know the cyclists a lot of a lot of heavy duty endurance athletes use it yeah i almost want to try it you know they say that these uh executives are trying it they're doing epo and entering into triathlons and shit like

that really for bragging rights yeah just assholes assholes with money or take an epo like really i was reading the thing about an epidemic of... Really, it boosts you that much. Like, okay, you're going to take it, and you're going to notice that you're able to, like... Like, the other day, you could barely finish a loop around the Rose Bowl, a three-mile loop. And then you start taking it, and you can get, what, five, six miles in. I wonder. I wonder.

I think what it does is it raises your threshold if you're already an elite endurance athlete, too I think for them that's what it is. It's like they're already looking for that extra edge So they're already an elite endurance athlete dirty in the Tour de France and they take that APO and it's like what? Just just jacks him up. They could just do more work. They have more oxygen They don't run out of juice and for for a guy like TJ, his style is so kinetic. There's so much movement, explosion, switching stances. He needs that juice. It's not like a calm, easy game where everything's fast, fast, fast, fast, fast.

It's crazy. It's a hard one to swallow. Yeah, man. So for me, I was like, man, I was going to come on Joe Rogan's show and see what was he, could he talk about to make me uncomfortable to talk about maybe some hard stoppages.

Man, talk about some hard stoppages. Give me, what's the worst? Well, let me talk about when I made a mistake. I don't want to talk about this. You don't want to talk about what he feel? No, I'm just being, because I have no answer for it. I don't understand to talk about this you don't know i'm just being because i have no answer for it i don't understand that it's like all i'd wanted like i just doesn't feel like a good conversation because all i could do is just it just get like you said it's just

going to take away from what i've seen of as and then the more i imagine about it it's just going to be more takeaway and then anything i could say or think about, I can't think of anything that's solution or assist. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think anybody, I mean, I think we're in this stage right now where they're probably looking at the data going, okay, what does this signify? And how many more people should we test? Once they develop a new method of testing, That's the whole reason Why they want to keep The old samples anyway

In case new more Sensitive methods Of detecting Right Are invented And you know about this stuff Because I know that you You're a science

Freak And you're a science You didn't say nerd Yeah yeah Dork Dirk Especially when it comes to Anything that can enhance

This life that we have On this earth So yeah I'm sure you know a lot About this stuff. Well, I've had a really amazing conversation with many people about it. And David Sinclair was one of the more recent ones who did this discussion about life extension and different anti-aging solutions and different things that they're coming up with.

anti-aging solutions and different things that they're coming up with. But what I've come through with is, at the other end of this, there are probably hundreds of thousands of people that are involved in either legitimate supplements or legitimate molecules or testing hormones on people or trying all these different things to try to figure out how to get the body to perform better. Some of them are legal, and some of them are illegal. And that's where it gets strange.

You get the guy like the Balco guy. Victor Conte comes along. He's like, look, I got one. You just rub it on. No one's going to know. Shit! They don't even know what this stuff is yet. And for a while, that worked.

And then? But while it worked, everybody's like, hmm, why is Barry Bonds getting so big? People just started wrecking like, hmm, come on, man. Look at me, Sammy Sosa. Look at me in the eye. What are you doing? And they all exhibited these obvious physiological changes where you could tell that whatever they were doing was really effective stuff. There's hundreds of thousands of people

working on that right now, all the time. Right, all the time. Trying to get it better. There's probably thousands of people that are trying to come up with stuff that sneaks past this testing. Did you ever see... That's why I just stick to Bikram yoga, man.

It's a good move. Did you ever see that Icarus documentary? I think I did. It was about who? It was the Russian anti-doping scandal. Did you see that one? I didn't see that. I didn't see that.

It's amazing. It's amazing. The guy who made the documentary, the whole thing sort of happened by accident. It's a guy named Brian Fogle. And his documentary was on he was going to do a bike race, and then he was going to come back the next year and do the bike race on steroids and see what the difference was. And so he was going to document it all, and he was going to have this Russian anti-doping guy. This guy was going to oversee his program, tell him what to take and how much to take and when to take it. Make sure he doesn't get caught.

No, yeah, make sure he didn't get caught. That was one of them, I think. I don't think they drug tested most of the things that he was interested in doing. I think the thing he was doing, he just wanted to see how good he could get. Okay, because you said anti, Russian anti-doping guy. Yeah, this is why, this is where it gets to.

In the middle of him doing this, this Russian anti-dopingoping guy it comes out that the russians cheated at the sochi olympics and this russian anti-doping guy spills the beans to this guy and explains the russian state-sponsored doping program that they state-sponsored and doped all their athletes that everyone was on steroids and that they hid the urine they had two separate like a secret secret separate room where they transferred the dirty urine through a hole in the wall and slipped out the good urine they put it back in place so they they substituted clean urine for the urine that was collected they opened up the bottles they found these

microscopic scratches on these supposedly unopenable caps for these bottles, but they ran them under microscopes. They're like, look, they were scratched. These things have been opened. The Russians had figured out a way to open the bottle without cracking the seal. They swapped piss.

I mean, it was like super sophisticated stuff. And this guy details all of it by accident just because he had hired this guy to give him drugs so he could, he was just trying to run a documentary. Let's see how much better steroids make me at riding the bike. And when all this stuff broke, he just came in at the right place at the right time. And it's amazing. It's amazing.

That's why Russia won like all these gold medals in the Sochi Olympics. They were all juice to the tits. And you're saying all of them huh yes it's just for me like it's it's just it's one of those things like i just don't have no an answer to it i know there's always going to be people who are going to look for an advantage yeah and i think as long as some but there's one person looking for an advantage then uh i think there's some people are going to have the attitude that if there's an advantage out there, I'm a fool for not taking it. The people who don't take it are people who are gifted in some way or have just a work ethic that goes beyond. And it's a matter of pride that they don't do it.

You know what I mean? Like when you're a sharp kid, it's like a matter of pride to never cheat on a test. Whereas some people, that's their go-to, you know? Yeah, it's interesting. It's like what's legal and what's not legal Like what should you be allowed to do Should you be allowed to use cryotherapy What if it turns out that cryotherapy ramps up your hormones What if it turns out that cryotherapy

Speeds up your recovery That's commensurate with a steroid But why shouldn't you be able to use it You should be able to But I'm just saying Because I think the basis of it Is that some of these other things Are supposed to be maybe dangerous for you epo for sure is that that's the reason that's the base reason really that i don't know but i think that's our base reasoning

right i think the base reasoning is cheating well no not just cheating because it's not cheating if everyone's doing it well but for sure i mean so they're supposed to be dangerous stuff so like you know like you can use yeah no but i'm talking about like- So there's supposed to be dangerous stuff. So like- Bodybuilding hormones. Yeah, but I'm talking about hormone. Like you can use vitamins or anything, or you can have good nutrition. It makes sense. Anything that's going to make you better at what you're doing. But there's ones that we don't want people to use because they're dangerous to use for those reasons.

I think that's supposed to be the reason, right? I do not know if that reason makes sense. I know. I'm not saying whether it makes sense or not. Yeah. But I think that's supposed to be the reason, right? I do not know if that reason makes sense. I know. I'm not saying whether it makes sense or not. Yeah. But I think that's supposed to be the, because when does it come down and say, well, we don't want you using any artificial supplements, vitamins. We want you to get all your vitamins from your food. What you're doing is you're getting some of your vitamins artificially and it's not the way a human being gets it.

So like there's a line that's being drawn somewhere. Right. And I'm saying the line is being drawn at what is supposed to be safe. At one point, it got drawn at that and then became something else, maybe. I don't know. Think if they were really concerned with safety, they wouldn't let them fight. Well, we're talking about all sports. I know.

But, I mean, especially with fighting, if you're really concerned with safety, let's just cancel the whole event. Someone's going to get hurt. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of things. You know that we don't like the fighters to jump on top of the cage because it's unsafe. Yeah. It's unsafe. They were just kicking each other.

Kicking each other in the face. Yeah. Yeah. No. Get off. Get down off that cage. They get mad. They're celebrating. They get mad.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The celebrating thing is funny, man. Let them celebrate. Yeah, they don't like him to do a flip. Well, one guy did a flip. Gaethje just did it.

He did a flip and landed on him. One guy did a flip and landed on someone, so I get that. But it's like, man, I trust a guy to get kicked in the neck, but I'm not going to trust him to do a flip. He's probably done a flip before. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either. Gaethje almost landed on the guy's last fight. Yeah, and that's what that's what that's.

That was a fight. Somebody else gets hurt. Now, I get that. What if he killed a doctor? How much of a suspension do you get if you kill a doctor with a backflip? Like, for real. Imagine if a doctor's running in and Gaethje off the top rope. Dang.

And it would be the ultimate world star video. Would the Beast, would Derek Lewisis would he have that on his instagram would he keep that on his instagram if someone died if it was a ufc he might he's so savage his instagram is pretty funny it's the best instagram in the game if any you want to see i saw one the other day of a guy on a motorcycle on his instagram drove right into a fucking telephone pole guy wasn't paying attention or something he went off the side of a guy on a motorcycle on his instagram drove right into a fucking telephone pole guy wasn't paying attention or something he went off the side of the road and hit a fucking telephone pole full on oh oh just slammed into this pole like fuck man i gotta stay off derrick's yeah no

i don't like to watch that kind of stuff yeah yeah you know, you know, that guy's never going to be the same. He's either dead or he's never going to be the same. Yeah, like the one I saw, what's that one where he saw where the guy was going to do a jump off a house into a... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know what happened to that man. That guy's got to be dead. A lot of them are dead. I mean, I've got something on my Instagram about the guy who got hit by a dolphin.

I just put that up there the day I saw somebody put it up. Guy got hit by a dolphin? Yeah, he was doing some the day I saw somebody put it up. Guy got hit by a dolphin? Yeah, he was doing some paddle boarding and the dolphin was living life a little bit. Dolphin was doing his thing. So there,

you know how he's paddle boarding and there's a wave coming and then you can see the dolphins. You know, they like to surf so they get in the wave. They're doing their thing and I think the dolphin sees him. He's the only one

who decides to come out of the water and get a little air. He's like, oh, there's a paddle boarder. Get a little air. Pow. And he fucks him up? Yeah,

yeah, here we go. Whoa, look at this. Pack it. Oh, that's 100% on purpose. Like,

it makes you wonder about dolphins. Like, a dolphin's like, oh, what an opportunity. That is 100% on purpose. I had to put that. I had to post that on Instagram.

Yeah. That guy's all right. Yeah, he's all right. He fell in the water. He fell in the water. But a dolphin's heavy. He got side checked. What do you do in that moment?

Do you hit him? Do you hit the dolphin? Do you punch it? No, I have respect. The dolphin got the air. You're having a little fun. How much does the dolphin weigh? It's a big animal. You got to get back to the shore.

That is pretty funny, though. Yeah, walk that one off. Walk that one off. Yeah, you don't elbow it as it's coming at you. Yeah, you don't want to piss him off. You're in their neighborhood. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's clearly on purpose.

Yeah. That's clearly on purpose. It's like, you fucking dummies. Get out of the way, bitch. Yeah. What are you doing? You're not even surfing Yeah

Paddle boarding Paddle boarding is surprisingly hard I wonder if his friends laughed Oh yeah The other dolphins Yeah he's talking to his friends Yeah They probably thought it was awesome

Yeah Yeah Yeah I went paddle boarding It's not easy I didn't think it was hard You did it You stand You stand straight like this You You don't have to Yeah But I tried paddle boarding. It's not easy. I didn't think it was hard. You stand straight like this.

You don't have to – Yeah, but I tried to surf. That was hard. There was a lot of waves. It was a little wobbly. But I was like, I thought this would be way easier. I fell twice. Jamie's making fun of me.

Stop it, bro. Yeah, paddle boarding is one of those things where it's like – Stop it, bro. Yeah. Paddleboarding is one of those things where it's like you're just mostly using your core, right? You're balancing everything out. I'm not an expert at it. I did it once or twice when I was in Hawaii, you know, hanging out with the fam.

It's like if you got like placid water, it'd actually be calming. Paddleboard. You ever surf? I'm trying. I'm excited I'm going to do it this year. This is the year? So I've taken some lessons, taken some lessons.

I did a little bit. I've been up on some waves. The water was pushing me, but I can't call it surfing, what I was doing. But I was in the water. I was having fun. That's a respectable thing

to know how to do. Yeah. Right? When you hear someone can surf, you're like, oh, wow. Well, no, I've decided that I have to do it. I've been living in California all my life. I'm paying to be a surfer.

I live here. I pay the- Surfing tax. Yeah, the surfing tax, but I'm not going to the beach and getting my money's worth. I got to go and get it. Yeah. When we think about how many people live in LA, how few actually go to the beach. Right. Yeah. Beach is actually go to the beach. Right.

Beach is not that crowded. No, it's not. In comparison to how many fucking people live here. It's one of those things where people just take it for granted. Yeah. So, do you surf? No. I'm scared of sharks.

Yeah, so I started the quest last year. So, last year I took a couple of lessons. So, this gets a little warmer. I'm going to do it again. We were thinking about Doing a surfing challenge For Sober October It was gonna be like Time spent up on a board

For the entire month So we're gonna have A contest Are you gonna be doing it? You're gonna be surfing We haven't decided And I think the guys are They don't wanna do

The surfing thing If you do it Let me know I wanna do it with you Yeah? Yeah Uh oh It'd be a little cold in October, wouldn't it?

Maybe. Yeah, that's the idea, pussy. Okay. All right. Come on. Oh, here, I'll freak you out. Fear. Did you see the video?

Is it cold in October? Barely. It's like 80 degrees. You see, because September's our water school moment. What is happening with this? It happens very fast. The way I saw it, this is a French Navy man jumped off a boat to celebrate, and as he's in the water here-

A shark comes after him. Yeah, it just comes out of nowhere. No one can really see it. And all of a sudden, right at the last second, they spot it, and they're like, oh, shit, get the fuck out of the way. It just nibbles at his foot. It almost looks fake, but the way he reacts, it's not.

I don't think that shit's fake at all. It just happened all of a sudden. He's just in the water. Yeah, man, that's how it goes. That's their world. Look, you can't even see anything in there. That's the thing that freaks you out the most about the ocean is the possibility. It's like you're just looking down.

You don't see a goddamn thing. And all of a sudden, the Meg. Yeah. I like that Australian guy. Remember the Australian surfer? And the shark was coming after him. And he was just pushing him away. And when he talked about it, he was looking like he wanted to bite me.

I decided I didn't want him to, so I just pushed him away a little bit. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You just fought off a shark, man. He's like, yeah, I didn't want to be bitten. That's a good attitude to keep. I'm not interested in this. I'm not freaking out, but I'm not interested in this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't want to be bit. Yeah, you don't want to freak out, right? If you freak out, they probably can sense it. If you really spaz out in the water, they probably know, oh, this guy's scared as fuck. It's time to eat. This guy smells like food. They apparently don't like to eat us.

Is this the guy right here? I think so. He's got eight million views. Great white shark surprises solitary surfer. I haven't seen this one. That's not the one I'm talking about. This could be bad. This could be something I don't want to see.

Look right behind him. Oh, Jesus, Louises. Surf. Fuck out of there. No, I think he saw it. He's like, yikes. Oh, man, but he's paddling with his arms. Looking like a seal.

With every time he paddlesdles the arm could disappear on surf yeah fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck but you're so helpless in their world it's like you ever see what happens when a shark gets beached oh yeah i was looking for this video the other day we found that one where you were like why just pick it up and throw it out in the water there's a video i saw of a girl literally doing that just like a chick in a bikini. It's a smaller shark, but she just grabs it by the tail, yanks it. Good for her. Throws it out there.

But the problem was with the one, sharks don't just start swimming when they get put in the water. They can't stop moving, really, so they've got to have a little shove. It's hard to do, too. They had to drag that shark out by a boat to sort of get it going to get water in its gills so it can breathe and whatnot. Oh, okay. That makes sense. It's got to be going in the water. It's got to come this way.

Because sharks are super weird in terms of their physiology. Like, if they go upside down, they go to sleep. Right? Oh, that's right. Isn't that the case with sharks? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's fucking strange. And they have to keep moving.

I don't think they can breathe if they sit still. Unless they find a spot where there's a nice little draft. Oh, right, right, right. This video also happened to. I can't show this one either because this is going to get taken down. But it's a girl getting pulled into the water. She's trying to feed a shark off of a boat. And it grabs her by the finger and just yanks her in.

Oh, Jesus Christ. And everybody freaks out also. Quick fast break. What kind of shark is it? It doesn't say. But also, that's in Australia, so it might be a great white. Fuck that.

I understand. Why did she think she could feed a shark with her fingers? Someone probably told her she could, and that was a bad idea. Yeah, that's the worst. You know, you're probably right, because when you haven't done it before, you're going to ask a reasonable question.

Can the shark bite me and pull me in? And then he's going to tell you something in an expert voice like, no, he's not interested in you. You don't look like a seal. He's not going to try to bite you. Plus, she's probably hanging out with three or four dudes that want to fuck her. They're all drunk. Yeah. They want to show her a good experience.

Someone's giving her bad advice. She gets half her finger removed Fuck man Then nobody's happy Yeah Do you like going to Russia so much? I do I do Do you enjoy it up there?

Yeah I do What's it like? I like it Let me see Well I like I like traveling So this is a cool thing

I've got to travel so much I've got to see a lot of really cool places. And Russia is one of them. I like all the different places I've been there. St. Petersburg. Because Russia, one thing is it's like America. Lots of different places wherever you are. Like, you know, America to some people could seem like a different country in all the different states.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. So it's like that. So I got to, I go to Moscow. Moscow is one thing. You know, you get to, there's a lot of history, a lot of nice things to see. St. Petersburg, same thing. Do you feel safe when you're over there?

Well, I take everything at face value. So that's the way I go through life. Because if I was to try to always read some undercurrents or read what uh people tell me i'm supposed to experience i'm i'm not i'm never going to do anything like um a long time ago my travels my um my i was going to go do one of butterbean show down in alabama and my parents were like man you're going to alabama man be safe down there don't be doing all that stuff you do you It's going to be different because of America and our history with racism. And I went down there and I was, you know, this is what it's a, you mind me tell a story?

Yeah, because this is a story. So I went down there and I was at this show and then some cops come up and they look like the cops from, you know, in the movies from the South that you're supposed to scare you. And I took a picture with them and they're like, and somebody else came to take a picture. And they're like, well, look what we started going. No,

man, I'm going to do this on this. What I'm here to do. I may hang out with people. I'm in referee fights. I'm a, you know, talk to people.

They want to talk. So I took a lot of pictures. They were impressed. They're saying that, you know, they've seen other people, you know, you know,

tell people know about pictures and the guy all excited they're like hey hey um we want you to come out and pull people over with us i'm like no no i don't want to do i have no interest in doing that you know i grew up in la you know what i mean like they're like and they're getting pumped they're like imagine like you're getting pulled over by her damn bitch yeah yeah and i'm like no no i don't want to do it and they uh then one guy then one guy goes, well, do something. I mean, we want to do something. Tase me or something, Herb. And so he grabs his taser gun and sticks the taser in my hand.

Jesus Christ. And I'm sitting there. And I'm like, what the fuck? So I start tasing him, right? I'm tasing this guy. And he's like, please tase him right i'm tasing this guy and he's like he's tasing him i'm like uh i'm um so then um i after the tasing uh his but uh one of the um agents one of the guys who's working with me comes up and tells him he has some business to talk about with me i go wait what do you want

to talk about he goes man i could see you were so uncomfortable with what was going on that i just wanted to get i was like thanks so i get to him. I get back to my hotel room and I, I was thinking, I was like, man, you know, I'm worried about people prejudging and being intolerant. I'm prejudging of these guys because of some history. And these guys are really cool. If I ever get the opportunity to see these guys, I'm going to be, you know, man. And, and I did, they came like right then the phone rings, I swear. And they took me to an after party and they're like, yeah, they took'm gonna be you know man and and i did they came like right then the phone rings i swear and they took me to an after party and really like yeah they took it

like and it was like the place looks like roadhouse and you know i mean like the whole everything you see like in a movie like like you know some you know hey your wife's not gonna be happy about that and and i'm gonna catch you next week one of those type of things right yeah drove me to the airport with the lights on skirt you know yeah i i think i think i still have the picture of me tasing him i could show it to you it was like it was like it was a pretty cool experience so after that i was like man uh whatever i think i know about things i really don't and so uh so i take things at face value yeah i've had good times in alabama i've had good times in the south i think the world is changing I really don't. And so I take things at face value. Yeah, I've had good times in Alabama.

I've had good times in the South. I think the world is changing, too. I really do. I think there's parts, especially this country, where almost everywhere you can find cool people. So, yeah. So, I mean, if, you know. Oh, my God. That is hilarious. That is so ridiculous.

You should put this on your instagram can you yeah i can they wouldn't mind i've talked to those guys about it don't you think he's gonna get in trouble though no he's not gonna he said he's fine he said it'll be all right i thought he'd get in trouble so i didn't want to yeah that's why i haven't put it on no you're that's why i never did it but i've actually talked to him so anyway this um that that yeah that's a big lesson to me like hey don't yeah don't don't think you know what's going look at that picture so anyway this that yeah that's a big lesson to me like hey

don't think don't think you know what's going on you know take things at face value try to be you know you know so when you go to Russia

you take that out too like let's just see what the experience you have your own experience of what Russia is yeah I'm going to have my own experience and not let it be

what anyone else is and also I've been to Russia before I went in 95 I used to work for a company that made documentaries, these guys. And I ended up going along to help them out. It was the first time I'd ever left the U.S. It had a big effect on me.

Do you know how to speak it? No, no, no. Do you understand any of it? I can do my instructions in it. And I know some words. I mean, I took some time to learn how to Use the alphabet So I can get around The alphabet's crazy Yeah yeah

And so you know What is that It's like Celtic It's like ancient Cyrillic is what it's called Is that what it is Cyrillic It's a guy named Cyrill

So it's that I thought How's it Cyrillic Yeah but it's actually Named after a guy Who made it That's the The Russian stuff

What is that Celtic stuff That you know Oh yeah Those runes The runes or something yeah yeah that's what it looks like yeah yeah some of the letters in russia like why is it that why would they do it backwards like it's the same letter that we have but it's backwards right right yeah yeah that's a y'all you're talking about is that what it is yeah the one that looks

like a backwards r yeah yeah yeah yeah that's that's what that's yeah what does that stand for over there just means yeah yeah and we use it like I too, right? Look at that chaos So that's how you say I You say ya Look at their fucking language What's up with that H? What's up with that upside down H?

The H is the N The H is the N What? That's how you use an N Oh my God So like when you So once you get used to reading So you always see pectopi

Everywhere you go, right? What's that little H? That means restaurant What's that upside down little H? It looks like a candle you go, right? What's that little H? That means restaurant. What's that upside down little H that looks like a candle holder? Yeah, right there. What's that? Yeah. That's an upside down H.

Uh-huh. What happened there? Looks like a Y. Somebody took that H and dumped it on its head. But it looks like H, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like if you flipped it upside down. Look at the E below that.

Like what the fuck is that thing? And so that's a yacht that that backwards are Yeah, yeah So you would say you would use it like yeah and say that word when you use it like it like just how we use I Oh, hi, and we use it like I and then we might use it in another reason to yeah Wow. Yeah So, I mean it is kind of amazing how different the way we write is to the way asian folks do that's right that's a real freak out that's and i i think you just have to learn it right each of them you have to learn each and every one of those there's i mean it seems it looks like it's

pretty hard to learn well it looks especially if it's not completely ingrained in your memory as a child. Yeah. Pick it up late in life. I know there's some people who speak Mandarin, but they can't read it. Yeah. They can't write it. They can't read it. Yeah.

Fuck, man. It's alien. Yeah. It looks alien. I mean, the fact that a whole different side of the world writes that way in these little characters. So I do have some help when I go over there. I'm going to tell you something.

I got married a few years ago. My wife is Russian. Ah, there you go. And she speaks Chinese. Damn. So when I go to China, she reads and writes Chinese. So when we go to these countries,

it's easier. She reads and writes Chinese? Yeah, yeah. It's easier to learn. Wow. And English or no? Maybe that's how you get along. Yeah, that's how we get along.

Some people are good with languages, man. That's incredible. Her Spanish is better than mine already. Just got here. To have Russian, which has its own use of the alphabet, and then Chinese, which is another whole deal, and English. Does she have room in her head for anything else? I know, yeah, yeah.

It seems like your hard drive would be full. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's just crazy. Just with those three languages. Like, fuck. Three hard languages, right? Probably the hardest. I heard that Russian's hard and English.

Well, I'm not going to say hard. I've been trying to learn it. It's hard. There's so many ways to say something. They conjugate a lot. I think a lot more than Spanish. Really? And that's what I have problems with.

You know, we all get Spanish words. We live in L.A. But conjugating verbs, you know. But she can do it easy because she's like, oh. Because they conjugate so much more. Hmm. Yeah, that might be the three hardest languages to learn outside of maybe the other Asian languages.

Like Japanese is probably pretty difficult to learn. I heard the Vietnamese is tough. Yeah. And then, you know, you got those languages that you look at, you know, wow, that's great. And then you see like ancient Hebrew. Yeah. You look at hebrew language like the way they write like what the fuck i don't know i bet arabic stuff arabic's gotta be tough i mean how many languages are there if you had to guess yeah hundreds yeah hundreds variations and dialects and depending on like where you are even in mexico there's different right yeah speak the

same spanish down there really even spanish yeah like you can under like because you know i took a couple of spanish classes right but i can understand people from from you know uh spain easier for some reason and i grew up right here it's harder for me to understand the the way they speak spanish my friend lives in uh my friend adam green tree he lives in He lives in Australia And he has a lot of experience With like the indigenous people That live there Because he works in a mining company And they deal with a lot of the aborigines

And they have The groups of people They call them mobs That's what they call themselves Instead of like a village Or a clan They call themselves a mob That's what they call themselves Okay Instead of like a village Or a clan They call themselves a mob That's

That's what Aborigines use And they have Different languages For different mobs So like there might be Hundreds of mobs In this area

Uh huh And they all have Different languages So you drive I go how close He's like a few miles I go a few miles You know he would say

Kilometers Maybe 20 100 kilometers Like so 20, 100 kilometers. Like, so you go 100 kilometers and you got a totally different language. Oh, what? That's all the different languages. This is a map of all the areas of the mobs. But maybe they're similar, right?

I don't believe so. I think they don't know what the fuck each other are saying. Right, right. That's why we can't understand Australians, right? Right, but if you look at that, that's crazy. I don't know who's documenting all this stuff and whether or not they've saved these languages. And they haven't, because it's very likely that little ones of them will just go,

if these people assimilate into other populations or move out, you might lose these languages. That's what I like about going to Russia, too, because there's so many different cultures and so many people and i like that i like people like i get i get the like uh i get to go to grozny and been got to grozny is in uh chechnya yeah what's that like it's really it was a really cool place i went to uh show you some pictures went to uh uh went and looked around well because it's for me what's really cool about it is the energy that people have about developing over there right now because the place there was a war there you know about that right yeah there was a war and uh right now and they're really building up and they're really excited about it

so i think it's just uh it's cool to go and see people who really see kind of a group mentality about moving forward. So where exactly is this, and what was their war? You've heard of Chechnya? Yeah. Yeah, so they had a war with Russia. Right. A civil war. See, that's what it used to look like.

Yeah. Now you've got a picture of it now, right? Yeah. So they're in the to look like. Yeah. Now you got a picture of it now, right? Yeah. So it's... Ah, there it is now. They're in the middle of rebuilding. Yeah. And they're energetic about it and there's pride of it and it's cool.

It's cool to be able to go there and get to see it. That is cool to see something in the middle of a rebirth like that, right? Yeah. That's beautiful. And in that area, a lot of places, yeah, there's a lot of rebirth energy going on. Oh, wow. So that's what it looked like right after the war? God damn.

Wow. That's a crazy image. So you've been doing this now, traveling around the world like this for how many years? For a long time. Let me think. I mean, let's see. I probably was doing stuff with mma uh and traveling for the sport i've got i started probably traveling around to traveling around

internationally around 2003 or 4 wow and then um but i got to travel around the u.s a lot before that so that was really cool got to go to places like you know uh you know uh that i would never go to indiana someplace in in Indiana I'd never go. And some of these, I've got to go all through them, throughout most of the states in the U.S. Because even before I was doing a lot of the UFC, I refereed for King of the Cage. So by the time I got to the UFC, I got to referee more fights than anyone I knew. I think I met you at a King of the Cage.

Yeah, way back in the day at King of the Cage we met there. That was like 2000 what? That was probably 2001 or 2000. That was when they were in Indian reservations, right? Yeah, it was probably 2000 because they started there in 2000. You were there at the early ones, right? Yeah. When they first started.

Eddie was working for them. Yeah, my friend Bud Brutsman was one of the owners. Yeah, Bud, yeah. Yeah, Bud, man, Bud didn't, like, Terry decided to let me referee. Bud held his heart on me at first. Really? Yeah, yeah, Bud was rough on me. But then he started to like me.

Bud was rough on me in the beginning. He didn't want you to referee at first? Well, Larry was a referee. That's how I started refereeing. Larry was a referee, and I trained with Larry. And everybody liked Larry as a referee. He was a really, you know, Larry's a really good guy, and he did a lot. When he started doing it, he went and did a little research

and talked to people from the commission from doing boxing and kickboxing. So he put inspectors in place and things like that, and that was my job at first. I would go out there, we'd bring our guys out, and I would kind of manage the inspecting team and um then uh i think they ended up working me too hard one show i was like man i came and volunteer my time i want to be able to see at least a fight or two and i just come to work for you and uh terry uh was like i'll make it up to you and i wanted to try a reference like let me

i'll try referee fight he goes okay do that and then i remember the first time i was like man i think when i was like, man. I think when I was like, wow, I really signed up for something here. You know what I mean? So, yeah. But, yeah, that's kind of how it happened. When did you – you've had – how many fights did you have? I've had, I think, five.

And when did you decide – was it because of refereeing that they decided that it was a conflict of interest for you to continue your career? Yeah. Well, see, I was never like a real serious competitor. It's like I like to train. I like to do that. And then every now and then, I want something to train for. You know what I mean? And so give me something to motivate me.

All right. It would be fun to do it, you know? Right. And what happened is someone told me that it was a conflict of interest and that I needed to pick one or the other. And no one's going to miss me as a fighter. So, you know, that's kind of how that worked out. Well, you're definitely one of the best in the world, man. I get happy when you're refereeing a fight because I know that it's going to be handled.

I mean, I agree with you on virtually every single time you and i've had a discussion about what should or shouldn't be done um the one thing that drives me crazy about referees and not you but some referees is breaks and stand-ups that don't necessarily need to happen when guys are working towards something and you can see there's like a battle the guy's trying to defend guys trying to get out of half guard and get in the mount. And then you'll see a referee come over and just separate it because the crowd's booing or because they don't understand what's happening, how much of a struggle it is. Especially clinch work. Exactly. When guys get a guy up against the cage, they're working for something.

They might stall each other out, but eventually someone might break down. And this is how a guy like Nurmagomedov wins fights against elite guys. They might stall each other out, but eventually someone might break down. Right. I mean, and this is how a guy like Nurmagomedov wins fights against elite guys. This is how Randy Couture won a lot of fights. It's a legitimate tactic. Yeah. Just because it doesn't look fun for you. Mm-hmm.

You know, like a guy beating a guy up against the cage, just short elbows, knees to the thighs, you might think that that's not enough. But that's a good way to wear a dude out and you keep doing that until eventually you break them yeah especially when you're someone like stipe or yeah yeah i think and i think for me it's helpful as i do my pre-fight instructions you know so i tell the fighters what i expect and what to expect for me you know i mean so i don't want to i want to interfere as little as possible yeah I know you do and so that's that's my goal and so I you know I give them instructions if I tell them you know hey work work what I expect and you know I expect you to do

something to I'm looking for big shots or advance your position and then they'll ask me like well how much how long will you leave something stale I go well what is stale if they're both guys relax that's stale but like you're talking about even up against the fence in a clinch, especially, that's where a lot of things are really getting decided. And so we have to really see that play out, you know, especially a lot of the guys are, you know, if they're striking at each other, maybe in some of the other weight classes, you know, they don't have that one punch always. Some of the guys do, but not everyone does. And that's where things are going to get cited in that clinch.

And if there's a tension, if there's a tension there, we need to see where that's going to go and let it work itself out. I'm so glad you said that. That's the perfect way to say it. That's absolutely, I 100% agree. And there's moments where it changes the course of the fight where it's really unfortunate. You didn't referee Kamaru Usman and Damian Maia, did you? I don't think so. Whoever did that one, we don't even have to pull it up,

but there was a moment in the first round when Damian Maia got a hold of Kamaru and was trying to take his back standing. And he had like one hook in and a clinch and he was hanging on to him. And the referee decided not enough was taking place. They separated him. I'm like, oh, you can't do that. it's so hard to get a hold of i hope it wasn't me who did that god damn damian maya about to get you back whoa and say no no that's not going anywhere matt sarah went crazy you know he has that um that podcast he does with jim norton uh-huh and he's

like you just don't do that to the guy. He's got a hold of him. He might take his back here. And you saw what he did with Lyman Good when he takes your back. And Lyman Good's a beast. But when Damian Maia gets a hold, especially early in the round, and he's fresh, and he's got his back already. And he has a lot of interesting takedowns from there, too. He goes back and forth with halfway taking your back,

and then when you're defending the takedown, he starts taking your back. And then when you go back, then he's back working on you. Yeah, so, no, he works at a real interesting pace there. Well, it's stunning to watch him go through guys. Like when he went through Rick Story, I was like, Jesus Christ. Like Rick story's a powerful wrestler yeah and when he takes his back and he gets him in that neck crank and you see the blood squirting out of his nose you're like whoa yeah like this is this is a heavy fucking squeeze

this guy has and then he did it to carlos condit um who else he's done to he's done to a lot of guys he gets a hold of you he just squeezes the life out of you. And when he gets on top, he seems so heavy on top. Neil Magny, when he ran through Neil Magny, I was like, Jesus Christ. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's just such high-level jiu-jitsu. Yeah, when he's on top, he's just. Yeah, just no air, just smushes you. I'm such a sucker for a specialist, whether it's a style bender specialist

or a striking specialist or a Damian Maia specialist. I love watching the guys that are at the tip of the ability in whatever their discipline is. And stylebender, man, he seems to be getting better every time. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, for him, it was just avoiding takedowns. He was so high level as a kickboxer. He's so clever.

takedowns like he was so high level as a kickboxer he's so clever like he's he's like in my opinion probably the very best in the sport at setting traps yeah he'll like gauge you see what you're doing those stances getting some information yeah yeah it's not it's not random and i like the way he uh deals with the takedowns i mean he knows where he's safe and where he's not you don't see that he's panicking he's like yeah it's a it's a minute. Let this cook a minute. But I've seen what this attempt looks like. I see what this one looks like. I'm walking it through. All right, now my party's going to start. I talked to one of his guys he trains with.

I was refereeing some fights in China, and it's one of the guys he trains with in New Zealand. And this guy was telling me so much and showing me different things about angles they do and things that they set up in their striking that I never knew or thought about. And this was before I saw him start fighting in the UFC. Everybody was aware of him, but he hadn't been in the UFC yet. And, man, these guys are really smart. The techniques, like this sport is growing so much.

Yeah, that's what I was saying. When you're seeing really high-level, super-technical strikers like him, who's world-class, he easily could be world champion in many organizations as a kickboxer. To see him now in the UFC and see guys having to deal with that, it's like, oh. The Anderson fight is a great example. We know how great Anderson is. He still look pretty good against stylebender but you could see

why stylebender was special in that fight did he add like another level of trickery yeah yeah and i mean and stuff john jones is doing yeah yeah but so you can't call him a specialist because man he does so many different styles right it's like it's really like a kung fu movie right where you change styles yeah and then they do they do something yeah yeah well john's such a good kicker too i mean that's that's interesting that he started out as a wrestler because like how how much of his style now is kicking you it's a giant part of his game his utilization those long ass legs right and and and. And it's interesting how much time he – it looks like he's getting information a lot, right? And then all of a sudden, then when he shifts gears,

it's like, okay, I've gotten a lot of information, and here's what I'm going to do with it. Yeah. Yeah. He's going to fight Tiago Santos, right? Yeah. Yeah. Oof.

That guy goes for broke. I mean, he goes for broke. It's interesting to watch him fight because you want to talk about a wild, reckless dude. Santos is dangerous. Jon Jones should and probably will be a heavy favorite. But Santos, he throws some haymakers. No, no. It's a great fight to watch. Yeah, that guy's going to go out on a shield.

No, he and he puts pressure. I think the interesting thing about, well, for me, what's interesting when I watch any of the heavier guys fight is, like, you know, they really have to understand where they're safe and where they're not. That's something that John does really good, how to be in the pocket and the places where he's safe and, you know, knowing know and where yeah he's the best ever at utilizing his reach like no one's ever been better at controlling reach and then never letting a guy reset when guys try to reset bam he kicks him bam he kicks him again bam he kicks him again he's like he knows when you're

trying to get comfortable when you're trying to settle in and that's when he kicks you like it's almost like he senses it and he just starts battering you. He sees, like, no, no, no breaks, no breaks, no breaks, no breaks, no breaks. Spriggan, no breaks. What about, man, Max Holloway? Oh, dude, he's the king of no breaks. He can no breaks with Max Holloway. There's no breaks.

He just pours it on you. He just keeps coming. Yeah. Keeps coming. What happened? Sorry. He pours it on you. He just keeps coming. Yeah. Keeps coming. What happened? Sorry. He pours it on you. He keeps coming in his fucking combinations.

Several high-profile fighters confirmed for UFC 239, including Michael Chiesa versus Diego Sanchez. Oh, shit. That's four fights for this. There's one. Michael Chiesa, pack a lunch, bro. Mm-hmm. Ngana versus Dos Santos. Oh. Sanchez. That's a great one. So that's Vegas. Ningano versus Dos Santos. Oh.

That's a great one. So that's Vegas. Yeah, that's the card guys are talking about. July 6th. Yeah. Ooh. Yeah. That's good.

Jan Blachowicz versus Luke Rockhold. That's a great fight, too. Rockhold's first fight at light heavyweight in the UFC. How'd you learn how to say that? Blachowicz. Mm-hmm. I think I listened to someone else say it, and I just repeated the u.s how'd you learn how to say that blahovich um i think i listened to someone else saying i just repeated the noise i had the hardest time with zabit it's a beat magomed

sharipov oh yeah yeah yeah that dude he's nasty he's fun to watch yeah yeah he's fun to watch that dude does some nasty shit in there so technical so crisp you know and again long range yeah yeah yeah but can take it too man i mean he he ate some bombs from jeremy fucking stevens who's one of the biggest bomb throwers in the division yeah jeremy has some fucking weapons yeah no that yeah yeah that was i remember when that fight was on i was like man i couldn't wait to watch that yeah that was a great fight it's close fight too close fight i mean i think the decision went to zabit um and jeremy disputed it a little bit but i man that was a close fight very good fight but i think the decision was correct but zabit is um you know he's a interesting style right right? Really good grappling, crazy trips.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of crazy, real, old school, traditional martial arts kicks. Throws real kicks and 360 roundhouse kicks and shit. Right, right, right. You know? A lot of grace. A lot of balance there. Yeah, there's so much talent now.

I mean, I can't remember a time where there was so many elite high level fighters that were like so exciting to watch there's so many good guys that's like really good guys people are there's the slipping through and this sport is growing so much and growing yeah growing all over the world some of these like that's one of the cool things about the travel is you get to go see and some of these some of these guys some of these athletes and other parts of the world have a huge following and no one's ever heard of him here this is one guy uh amiri akbar akbar he he has i think like almost a million followers on instagram really yeah no shit he's a ufc guy no no no that's what i'm saying he's He's a UFC guy? No, no, no. That's what I'm saying. He's a guy who's never fought in the UFC. Where does he fight?

He fights in ACA. No kidding. This is the Russian organization? Yeah. What's it called? ACA. Yeah, what does it mean? What does it stand for?

Absolute Championship Akhmat. Akhmat. What does Akhmat mean? There he is. 1.6 million. But look how handsome he is. Damn. That's just jacked. 1.6 million But look how handsome he is Damn Yeah You know

Because I refereed a fight In Azerbaijan where he was at Is he a heavyweight? Yeah Yeah yeah How much does he weigh? Yeah he's a big heavyweight Do you think he passes a piss test?

You know I'm not living in the man's pocket So I don't know if anyone can pass a piss test I really don't know I really don't That piss test. I really don't know. I really don't. That's not something I, I'm not an expert on that. I'd leave that to you, I like that expression.

I think that's, he likes wrestling. Uh-huh. I think a lot of fighters like wrestling right now. I've seen Ronda Rousey make that cha-ching. Yeah, yeah. Like,

hmm, I could do that. Do you watch pro wrestling? I watch it occasionally when Tony Hinchcliffe makes me. Why, do you watch it? No. No.

Yeah. Yeah, I didn't think you would. No, I don't. I don't get it either. I'm not 14. When I was, I loved it. No, when I was a kid, I mean, when I realized it was,

I mean, I liked it when I was six. I liked it a lot. And don't get me wrong. Not that I don't respect what they're doing. I used to work out at a Noki Dojo, and I did some pro wrestling workouts with them just to see what they're doing. And they're taking those bumps and some of the stuff they would do off the, like, there's no way I would be doing that with my body. So all respect to it. But it's just that it doesn't count for me.

I feel exactly the same way. They should be respected as being incredibly tough. Talented. That's a very difficult job. Yeah. Athletic, talented. The guys that are

really good at it that make it look like, you know, like art. Yeah, I liked Jimmy Superfly Snooker when I was a kid. I love that guy. Yeah, yeah. Bob Backlund, remember him?

I don't remember him. Remember the Iron Sheik? Of course. Oh, yeah, of course I remember the Iron Sheik. Yeah, yeah, Iron Sheik. Yeah, yeah, Iron Sheik. Yeah, there was some fun times. But, yeah, I prefer real things.

Yeah. I mean, I get it. I get the appeal, you know. But it's like once you watch really good fights, it's hard. It's hard to give a shit about fake fights. Yeah, I just, yeah, I don't get it. I didn't get it. Yeah.

But you know what? Some people love it. And, you know, that's their thing, you know. Some people know every bit of it, every stick. And, you know, I don't know. But I think there's probably, you know, who knows, it might catch me. Because, you know, I'm always trying to get hip to stuff. So if there's something I don't enjoy, i like to do it with somebody who enjoys it so i can

kind of watch them and kind of learn how to enjoy it you know what i mean i don't know like what's the part that you like about this you know what i mean or uh like i didn't listen to a lot of country music but then i um i used to work with gladiator challenge a lot and ted williams was like you don't like country music so So he gave me country music education. What's the matter with what you don't like, Tom? You can say the same, good music. And then I was like, okay, hey, I got you. What stuff did you get into?

I started grabbing into it. I like the old stuff. What kind? I like Murrow. I like Chris Christopherson, Sunday Morning, Coming Down. Yeah. And I like your boy. Your boy was on your-

Sturgill? Yeah, Sturgill your boy Your boy was on your Sturgill Yeah Sturgill I like Sturgill Sturgill Simpson That shit is deep right there He's a bad motherfucker Yeah I seen Jesus play

Yeah He's legit He's legit That song is A well written song man He's a trip of a story man He was like Working regular jobs

Working on a railroad And his wife Told him You could make a living doing music she's like you know you don't suck at this so she told him to go for it and now he's like one of the biggest music artists in the world right right it's crazy and it didn't take long either man yeah yeah that that turtles all the way down like that's a that's a really cool song first time first time i met him, almost immediately after meeting him, we got high as fuck and did a podcast.

I mean, we were barbecued. There's been a couple of times where he called me up after the podcast, so I was like, man, I didn't even know what the fuck we were talking about for the first 20 minutes because we were so high. Because if you live in Nashville, like he lives in the Nashville area, you go go out there and get the weed they have pretty good weed it's okay but it's not california weed like california weed is preposterous right right if you're if you're not used to that stuff you smoke that shit and try to be on air like all of a sudden now you're on a podcast you're on air and we're talking about like yeah i don't think I could keep up. I was like, can you keep up with Joey?

No. I went on his podcast, man. And he packed enough, I think, to get a village high. He put it in this bowl and just tore it up, emptied it out, did it again, and then ate a gummy bear and was like, all right. Started to put on pink floyd he's the real deal man yeah you know i mean he's free joey diaz is free yeah you know i'm not that free man i'm not that free i wish i could be i you know and i i have i have i i have respect for it just be like you said that freeness yeah yeah A lot of people are free. Yeah. But I'm not as free. Like, I think your boys, a lot of your people seem kind of free.

Like who? I think Eddie Bravo seems free. Oh, he's free. He's a free thinker, man. Yeah. Yeah. He seems free. In all good ways and others.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, Eddie's a, that's why his jujitsu is so creative. Yeah. Because he's so open to ideas, you know? I mean, he's also like, he doesn't like losing. So he's like, I don't know, I'm going to figure out how to win. I'm going to figure out how to beat this.

So he'll look at a position and he'll have some weird unorthodox take on how to get to a better spot or how to control the position better or how to finish from there. And you'll see, damn, his brain just works weird. If you have a conversation with him about stuff, he it's you learn a lot just from every time like okay i know you you're gonna take away something from it dude he's i can't do one of the bits that he's doing but he's good he's doing stand-up now and some of his shit is really fucking funny man he made me laugh really hard last night really i would have to do the bit i would have to tell you the bit to show you like i've been seeing he does yeah i've seen you so so

i should be getting funny man he's getting really fun he's getting more and more comfortable doing it he was always funny yeah i mean he always used to make you laugh but uh he tried it way back in the day he tried stand up many many many moons ago like fucking 2003 or 4 or something like that he tried it it just wasn't for him he was too busy with other stuff he just he was gonna try it and then get good at it but he got he bombed a few times he's like fuck this and then he tried it again i want to say like four years ago was it about that three years ago four years ago somewhere in that range and uh he's been doing it steady since he's actually pretty funny man like like like made me laugh like really loud

yeah because i've seen on social media that you guys have some shows where like he's on there you're on it a bunch of yeah that's how sam tripoli shows yeah a lot of sam shows he does uh a podcast tinfoil Hat podcast with Sam. And we're all real good friends. And Sam is also a conspiracy nut. So they get together and talk about the Illuminati and shit. Yeah. I have friends like that. Yeah.

My friends like that, yeah. Yeah. I go back and forth with conspiracies. I have a love-hate relationship with conspiracies. I love some of them. Some of them are fascinating. Some of them are like, okay, what the fuck happened there? You know?

And then some of them are like, I can't do this anymore. Yeah. I mean, when I was younger, I used to think about it. But then I think when I had a kid, I didn't have enough time for that. No time for nonsense. Time becomes very precious. And this becomes food how? Exactly.

Exactly. Not over here worrying about the fucking Illuminati. I don't even know what that means. What's the Illuminati? Yeah, exactly. I'm busy. I got to go. But I get how people get sucked into that rabbit hole.

Yeah, I don't know. No, I could see it. I went into a rabbit hole the other day, but with aliens. I watched three alien documentaries in a row. I watched this one on Bob Lazar, who was a guy who claims that he worked at Area 51. It's very compelling. Very interesting. Is that the top?

That's the one you would suggest? Yes. That's the one I would suggest. It's called Area 51. Bob Lazar, Area 51, and Flying Saucers, I think it's called. It's on iTunes. I'm going to it's called. It's on iTunes. I'm going to write it down. It's fucking good.

Big notes. Because there's some things that this guy knew that it's almost certain that he worked where he said he worked. That he worked at Area 51. The question becomes, he told the truth about all these things that have since been proven to be true. So he gave first cut at those truths, right? Yeah. Well, he did it a long time ago, too. He came out about this like 30 years ago.

There was a Nevada television. I think I've heard about this. Bob Lazar. He was worried about his life. Here's what happened. Apparently, the guy was working in this area doing research for whatever the government wanted him to do at Area 51. What he did there, who knows? He gets fired from this job and then takes his friends to this viewing position in the mountains where they can see them flying saucers.

He was telling them, they fly them out of this base. I'm going to bring you guys. We're going to watch it. They videotaped this on old school VHS tape. You can see these flying saucers flying around Area 51. And he says these are not being piloted by aliens. These are being piloted by human beings. But that these are real devices.

These things are real. It's a real vehicle. that these are real devices. These things are real. It's a real vehicle. And they got this real vehicle from some other civilization from somewhere in space. And they had nine of them. It sounds like total horseshit when you hear it.

But then you watch the video. And so the questions come like, well, how did he know that they were going to be flying these things up there? How did he know they were going to do them on Wednesdays? How did he know where to be and where he could see it? How did he know? How did he know about the biometric data? How did he know they were going to do them on Wednesdays? How did he know where to be and where he could see it? How did he know? How did he know about the biometric data? How did he know about element 115? He was talking about this element, this man-made element that it's a real element that they've now identified.

But when he was talking about it in 1980, no one knew what the fuck he was talking about. Or 1984 or whatever it was when he first got interviewed about this. So when this guy is bringing this stuff up today, and people are looking back at all the different things that he said that have since been proven to be true, especially the existence of Area 51, the government had to, at some point in time in the 90s, they had to say that they owned the base and say that it did in fact exist

so that they could broaden the top secret area or the, you know, like there's a do not enter zone where they'll pull you over and arrest you if you get past a certain spot. They wanted to broaden that area

so people couldn't be watching their crafts fly around like Bob Lazar was. And when they did that, when they expanded the territory, that's when they had to actually admit that the base was real. So he was proven to be correct

on so many different things that he said, like explain how they get them out there, explain what the research was. And he said that they had these things that run on some, they manipulate gravity in some way and they're very small because these aliens are very small little

creatures like a child like a eight ten year old child huh it makes you go what the fuck man and so he talked about he's well he saw them he knew how they operated wow the things that he knows that are true that turned out to be true that how could he have known them if he didn't work at area 51 are the most compelling aspects of it. And the fact that Area 51 was at one point in time, by the government's take, it didn't exist. And then it was like a legend. And this was when he was talking about it.

And so watching this documentary and seeing this guy 30 years later still basically saying exactly the same thing but with a bunch of things have been proven. Have been proven. Yeah, yeah, that is intense. It's a trip, man. I mean, if the government really did at one point in time have some craft that it got from another planet,

what the fuck, man? But the thing is, like, how would we take that? How do you think people would take that? If they found out, how do you think they'd handle that? If they really knew there was something that was so sophisticated that it could visit us from another planet it could be here in minutes she landed the White House law and do whatever the fuck it wanted to you couldn't even shoot it with bullets how would people take that I think that

people would just keep going on like with every other scare I think so yeah I think okay there's um there could be a meteor that's supposed to hit us, right? Right. I mean, how would people take it? I mean, that's what they're saying. They're saying it could happen. I think it would be a fuck fest in the streets.

But they say it could happen. Right. If you saw one coming. Yeah, but I'm saying not if you saw one coming because you don't see the alien coming. If people realize that, yeah, these guys could show up, right? I don't know.

I remember the conspiracy that, I remember I did. Remember that when there would be like these booklets of like Xerox stuff going on, like the one about AIDS and stuff like that? Uh-huh. Remember that one? Yeah, that one had me going for a while. The AIDS conspiracy? The AIDS was a hoax? Dr. Stryker's memorandum.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, people used to hand those out Right Yeah They were trying to tell people That AIDS was a hoax Not a hoax That it was like All this stuff

Memorandum It was not a hoax A government conspiracy Yeah Yeah that happened Way out for a while Yeah I remember I was

I was making Copies and passing along That blew my mind Well There was one doctor At one point in time That was trying to say That HIV does not cause

aids and we had him on way back in the day early on what was that guy's name duisburg dr peter duisburg yeah yeah that's what it is i just remembered it he is a professor at the university of california berkeley i believe i think he's a biologist and his take was that hiv does not cause aids that what causes aids is a compromised immune system that hiv is actually a weak virus and it shows up in the immune systems of people that are already compromised that's why you're finding it in these people that it's not the cause of their immune system being compromised it's a a symptom of it. And that what these people are really dying from is their whole system being fucked up by drugs. That either they're taking AZT, which destroys their body.

It was a cancer medication, like a chemotherapy that was so powerful. It was killing people quicker than the cancer was. And then they switched it over to using it with people that had aids because in in the early days they would call aids the gay cancer right there was all these different like they were trying to figure out what it was and what it did and early on this guy was saying this and we had him on the podcast and people got so mad they were so mad that giving this guy a platform to spread his his propaganda and his lies. And I was like, wow.

But he is a professor, right? He has done legitimate cancer research. I mean, don't you want to listen to him? And I wanted to get someone on to debate him, but nobody wanted to debate him. It was like trying to get someone to debate a Holocaust denier. Nobody wants to give them the platform. Nobody wants to talk to them, which I understand. But but those those kinds of i mean it's very highly unlikely that all these doctors are incorrect and are hiding the fact that hiv you know and then now the fact that

they've got these um hiv medications that basically they can take people and make them hiv negative now right didn't they have like a couple people have tested hiv negative after medications yeah i don't know i'm too stupid too stupid to understand what's really going on yeah that's that's for me that i'm i i know that i'm like when i watch some of those things you know they some of them they'll like lead off with these statements and we all know and we know this i'm like i don't i don't know yeah i don't know yeah there's too much to know yeah yeah how did we get in the subject of aids i don't know we're talking about conspiracy theories oh yeah and that was the one that i that one that one when it was out back in what 89 or something 88 when those little pamphlets

are going around yeah i was like yeah, marijuana and conspiracies go together like cookies and milk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's nothing like weed. It starts, your gears turn in. And you start thinking, that's why a lot of people start thinking conspiracies are against them, too. You get high and you start thinking that the world's closing in on you. Everybody's watching you. Surveillance. But you probably don't feel like that when you get high.

No, I'm okay. Yeah. I do sometimes. I kind of like it though You know why I like it? Because it ends And when it ends, you feel great It's almost like a brutal brain workout Like you go digging deep into your psyche

And find out all the things you're scared of Right, yeah, no, it's like, it's work Yeah It's work, you got a little work You're like, taking a look at yourself Going, going you know i never thought about me from that angle before yeah i like to do it i better clean up mine yeah yeah clean up your shit yeah yeah especially if you're i think if you're in a high pressure job and you're very busy like i am i think those those little insights are very important because you could get caught up in

your own bullshit and what you're trying to do and not think of the impact you're having on the people that are around you right yeah yeah and then then that marijuana goes hey wow yeah yeah and you impact a lot of people too many people especially with you know like you know because i have things where like my philosophy might change or a little thing and you're talking to a lot of people and like oh i don't know if i feel like that anymore yeah yeah you could switch right yeah you could definitely switch your opinion i do i switch my opinions i do too yeah well i don't know there's anything wrong with that either i think everybody should be more flexible with their opinion i mean obviously there's opinions like rape is bad right yeah don't't murder people yeah don't steal obviously those things normal stuff that everybody agrees on but then you get to a certain point and i think

we get real married to the idea of our opinions being right and we get real married to the idea of winning an argument with our opinions i think that's when things get kind of squirrely because then you start trying to calculate an argument to make your position sound better rather than considering your position for what it really is. Yeah, and then also being, just try, yeah, always trying to figure out and learn a little something. Take something away from it. Not to be a knee-jerk. That's the thing.

You don't want to be a knee-jerk, right? Exactly. You know what one I went real back and forth on pretty recently is universal basic income. I see this guy, the universal basic yeah he's running for president on that platform that's part of his platform right right and uh i had him on the podcast really enjoyed talking to him really really smart guy very cool guy um but when i'm i'm talking to him and i'm thinking about it i'm like boy i don't even know if that's enough. What they're doing, the idea behind it.

The idea is that automation is going to take all these jobs. Automated cars. It's going to wipe out a shitload of jobs, apparently. And the idea is that if we don't have some form of universal basic income, there's going to be chaos. But having just some amount of money so that people have their needs taken care of you always have food you always have shelter this you're taken care of now go pursue your happiness the the real problem with that though was who was it that we had the other day we were talking about um meaning about people want it was it

nick kristakis is that who it was people fight people need meaning yeah for their life who was that it might be him i don't recall i don't think it was i think it was someone else was it ben shapiro no i don't think it was but anyway whoever it was we were talking about it we were saying that does that give people a sense of meaning, though? Because people like you, for instance, you know your responsibility as a referee. You know how significant it is. You know you're one of the best in the world. When you're refereeing a high-level championship bout,

when the fighters find out that Herb Dean's a referee, they get excited. They go, good, one less thing I have to think about. It's like you're putting so much of who you are into that job do we know yeah i'm looking i'm looking for a piece of it i don't know yet sorry no worries but i mean look that's that's gigantic right yeah i mean that's i know for you that that's a oh yeah You take that very seriously. Yeah.

Getting hurt, maybe? Were you guys talking about that? Was it? No, I don't think so. Anyway, you have meaning in what you do. If you just got money to lay around and someone said, well, just go pursue your goals. Okay. But I think what people really like to do when they're really happy is make a living doing something that has meaning.

To them. Yeah, to them. I don't know if it would smooth things out if you just gave people money. Yeah, I don't know how that would work. I don't know how. I don't. Yeah, that one. I saw what he's talking about. I don't.

I don't. Like that one, I'm not smart enough for that one to know how that's going to work. But I don't, like that one, I'm not smart enough for that one to know how that's going to work. But he seemed to think that there was a lot of ancillary benefits, like things like lowered crime rates, lowered, you know, that you would have lowered instances of disease, lowered instances of people that were injured doing certain things. Like if you had money and you made sure that people had a certain amount of money it actually might cost the public less money i could i could see where he would come from with that because i think there's something because there's there's a lot of

people or probably you've met a lot of people who say that money isn't everything and there's these things that mean this but it's only once you get enough money where you can step off the that mean this but it's only once you get enough money where you can step off the off the little hamster wheel hamster wheel for a second to like start uh thinking about these other things yeah money's overwhelming man yeah i mean if you don't have it it's over i remember when i first got a development deal when i was doing stand-up and i got a big check and uh i just immediately felt like a like literally like a weight was lifted off my back. Just a weight. Like I had a weight vest on.

I took it off. Like now I don't have to worry about food or rent or gas or anything for like at least a year. Right, right. And I was like, I don't know what to think about it. And then I remember like thinking, God, I feel so free. It feels so different because most people's lives who are in debt, most of the time, they have this constant fog of pressure. Yeah, yeah. It's around them about those fucking bills, those goddamn bills.

It's always there. It's creeping on you. And then you get credit cards and you max those motherfuckers out. And then you're still trying to live these dreams that people are giving to you, that you're supposed to have these, like, you know, these symbols, these status, you know, people trying to go, like, and it's really, and that's even weird because, you know, I'm not really into that stuff, but then again, I'm on television. So I guess that can forward that to me. I don't know.

You know what I mean? Maybe that's why I like to think I'm deep. Yeah, no, I don't need a Mercedes, man. I'm just, you know, I'm just driving, you know, just driving my car, my 2005. You know, I just need to get from point A to point B. But, you know, maybe that's no, I don't need a Mercedes, man. I'm just, you know, I'm just driving my car, my 2005. You know, I just need to get from point A to point B. But, you know, maybe that's why. I don't know. I don't know, man.

You say you have a 74 Bronco, too, so you must appreciate cool shit. I did. See, that's what I'm saying. But that's the thing. I was about to get rid of it. My friend said, because I was like, man, it doesn't mean what it used to mean to me. But I do appreciate it. And now I'm like, my friend's like hey i'm gonna hook we're gonna hook

this thing up ah so i was like all right i sent it to him he says i'm gonna give you a deal we're gonna get it all hooked up right and uh but it does i will admit that like before it meant a lot more to me than it does now kevin hart came over here with a bronco the other day i saw his bronco the red one his is better than mine yours is too his is dope his his makes me realize how cool the convertibles are when they're they're done as convertibles right like he's just driving around with no top on i'm like oh that's so nice that's what that's how i'm doing mine because i i i got in mind as a convertible and i went and i got a top because i want to do a hard top on it look at that but if you're taking it on and off yeah that is that is a nasty bronco you know he has his own

car company that does this shit he does this shit with his own company he's got like a hundred businesses dude i never met anybody as motivational or motivated as kevin hart no i saw the i saw i i follow him on social media and that man is, and I saw what he was talking about, you know, talking to you about, too. Yeah, yeah, he's very motivated, yeah. He's the most authentically positive person I think I've ever met. And look at that. He's got an Eleanor Mustang.

That's a fucking beast, man. They made that at his place, too. So he has his own fucking car place that makes him cars. Look at that. I mean, the dude's off the charts. So he has his own fucking car place that makes him cars. Look at that. I mean, the dude's off the charts. But more importantly, like his outlook, like his healthy, positive outlook and the way, you know, he just goes through life. It's very inspirational.

It's very positive, uplifting. Like he's all just trying to help people in all these different facets of life, help people with financial advice, help people with motivation, help people to get the bullshit out of their life, get the clutter out of their life. Yeah. No, I even like when I first started, what I really like is when he was doing that thing where he was meeting up with people to run. Like when he'd be at it, I was like, man, I like that. I was going to bite that as much as I travel. And I used to like to run, you know. Well, you can always do that. Other people to run. Yeah. Like when you'd be at it, you'd be like, man, I like that. I was going to bite that as much as I travel. And I used to like to run, you know.

Well, you could always do that. Other people do that. My friend Cameron Haynes does that all the time. He'll invite people to run with him places. Yeah. Yeah. My thing with the yoga

is I've been deciding to do it when I'm on the road. So that's been cool is I got to do it. You going to Atlanta this weekend? No. What?

No, no, no, no. What? Didn't get invited. What the fuck? There's two, not one, two world championship No, no, no, no. What? Didn't get invited. What the fuck? There's two, not one, two world championship fights. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Damn, you didn't get invited to Atlanta? Are they going to use Atlanta guys?

I'm not sure. But there's a good Atlanta guy. There's a referee. Blake Grice? Blake Grice, yeah. Yeah, yeah, he's a good guy. There's, isn't that Matt Grice's brother? Is he? I didn't know that. I i don't i think one of the referees use what's his name who's old school sometimes they use what's his remember

that fighter uh he used to have the uh black dude with the uh like a patch of gray here but that's like a street it makes his hair look real cool what's his name is um he's a real good fighter uh his son fights mma now he came from a kickboxing background i don't know why i'm drawing a blank on his name you draw it's embarrassing because it's it's embarrassing because he's gonna be mad at me like like you don't know me i know him oh i hate feeling old right now all right that's the weed hanging out with joey diaz will fuck your head up for a couple months what was the last time you did joey's podcast no it was your head up for a couple months. When was the last time you did Joey's podcast?

No, it was like, it was probably a couple years ago. Oh, okay. But it was funny. I'm safe, I'm recovered, I'm safe. Yeah, dude, he'll change your life over in that weird room.

He gives people those stars of death. I know, yeah. 250 milligrams of THC. That's crazy. 250 milligrams? Yeah, that's crazy. That is a crazy amount. Yeah. That's crazy. 250 milligrams? Yeah, that's crazy. That is a crazy amount.

Yeah. That's not right. No, it's not right. I'm still trying to think of the schedule. Yeah, I know you are. Trying to jostle your memory in some way. We'll come back to it. We'll come back to it.

Yeah, there's a lot of guys who are former fighters that I think, Frank Trigg's doing referee work now, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Frank Trigg's really good. I would like more guys to do that, and I would love to have more former fighters be judges. You know who I saw who was really good, who came and took my course, is Chris Lieben. Yeah? Mm-hmm.

Good referee? Well, he's been doing stuff in camoo and he's he's coming along he's doing it yeah nice yeah he just won in a bare knuckle box yeah i saw i saw saw some clips of it it was yeah i mean it looked good yeah well it's good for him too like with his style his crazy style that's uh that's actually a great move for him right you know but he retired from fighting because he didn't want to fight anymore I mean he just but I guess

a little bit of time off and he's like fuck it you know there was two organizations it used to be a different bare knuckle boxing but they went under and when they went under

they owe him like 90,000 dollars yeah they cheated him yeah that's rough and his recourse is just let people know. Yeah, these guys owe me money.

Did you see the clip that Crooklyn on Twitter put up of the owner of Bare Knuckle Boxing saying that a fighter didn't fight hard enough? Yeah, I saw that. Yeah. And he was proud of it. He's like, this is the way we do it. See if I saw that. Yeah. And he was proud of it. He's like, this is the way we do it. See if you can find her tweet.

Yeah, this is the way we do it. This is what you can expect. Yeah. Like, that was ridiculous. You're just going to dock a guy's pay. Yeah. He took 50% of his money. Because it didn't meet,

yeah, because it didn't meet his standards. Yeah, I just... I remember when he said, did the crowd cheer? That's something that you get to count. No, I think so. I hope not. I'd hate to see that. Did the crowd cheer? That's something No I think so

I hope not I'd hate to see that Something the crowd Could cheer for Yeah Pay your attention To the president Of the Bare Knuckle

Fighting Championship Look at his Mr. David Feldman He looks like he's on coke Look at him Look at his evil look Hey what's up You guys having fun tonight?

Make some noise Bare Knuckle Fighting Championship Is a brand new sport and a brand new company and we're here for action and we want action and we demand action from the fighters we didn't get action in that last fight because rusty crowder wanted to run therefore he's given half his purse to reggie barnett make some noise biloxi This is how we do it at Bare Knuckle. You fight or you don't get paid. That's not good. It's not good that he thinks

Zombie Prophet wrote, this can't be legal. See what Steffi Hayes wrote. Crooklyn MMA. I wonder how that works. She wrote, what the actual fuck is this hillbilly bullshit yeah i concur what in the actual fuck is that hillbilly bullshit now pride they used to dock right the yellow card was uh yeah but a yellow card is a penalty like penalty for being boring, most of them were. Yeah, and sometimes irresponsibly.

Like, I've watched some of those yellow cards. I'm like, you're crazy. Yeah. You're crazy. Take that back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You gave that guy a yellow card. He can't fight any harder.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or he can't engage. He's going to get lit up. There's moments where you have to try to figure out what the fuck to do. You're on the outside. You're trying to figure out how to get in. Right, right, right.

And then the referee's like, come on, fight, fight to do you're on the outside you're trying to figure out how to get in right right and you're getting lit and then the referee's like come on fight fight and you're like but in asia some of they like some of them i used to work a lot at this korean show and they changed they're figuring out their style but man when i first got there they're like um so there's a yellow card any backward step a back step any back step you said we want to give a yellow card. And I was like, hmm. Lyoto Machida would never make any money. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

I don't know if I can do with that. I don't think that's, I mean, you invited me over here for a reason. I'm just going to do what I do and hope you bring me back. But I don't know if I can do that. Good for you. Yeah, do you ever go to a place and the commissions or a promoter will tell you, hey, fights go to the ground i want you to give it just a couple of seconds and stand them up i go places and people tell me what to do all the time really and i'm not going to do it because people at the end of the

day no one's going to know that you told me to do it it's going to be me doing it 100 so thank you yeah so i'm gonna um yeah i can, I can't. Yeah, basically. I'm so glad you just said it that way, too, because people need to get that in their head. Because I know that sometimes people do get affected by whether they want to please a promoter or please a crowd, and they're not doing the right thing. It's such a tremendous responsibility. Yeah, but you're the one who's going to be for some of those choices. Those choices that they made, they're making those choices with your name. Yeah.

Yeah, like the back step. Kevin Johnson. I think he's answering the guy, but this is a tweet from the Bare Knuckle FC. Okay, Kevin Johnson, no money was taken from any fighters. That statement did exactly what it was supposed to, what was supposed, it didn it didn't say to suppose and lit a fire under every single fighter's ass from that point on giving you one of the greatest fights you'll ever see no no no no no no no no no those guys fought that way because that's who the fuck they are right Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That had nothing to do with that. Jason Knight and Artem Lobov fight that way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't claim credit for Jason Knight doing what he did. And Artem Lobov. Get the fuck out of here. They would fight that way in a fucking Walmart parking lot. Yeah. That's how those guys would fight every time they fight. They would fight that way in a fucking Walmart parking lot. Yeah. That's how those guys would fight every time they fight.

They're animals. Yeah, Jason Knight, both those dudes are animals. Both those dudes are so tough. Jason Knight has my favorite nickname, Hick Diaz. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's a bad motherfucker. Yeah, yeah. He's a bad motherfucker. But it was tough Looking at their faces man After the fight I was like man I might have to rethink

My position on Bare knuckle fights Look at their faces Afterwards Yeah I mean that is crazy You know It's a lifetime

Of cuts Yeah All over the Look at his Right under his nose That giant cut that is a crazy cut man he's just stitched the fuck up

all over the place that is rough man his whole face got lacerated I mean that is a lot of cuts yeah that's more like a Muay Thai fight

and it really makes you think but again that's gotta be the most brutal right Muay Thai yeah I believe so Muay Thai fight and it really makes you think but again I'm that's got to be the most brutal right Muay Thai yeah I believe so Muay Thai bare knuckle would be like what they call it left way uh-huh where they just they kind of like wrap the hands up in a hand wrap yeah it's not bare knuckle but it's um I think uh bare bare knuckle Muay Thai would be the the hardest but the thing what my argument was always and it still this, that if you're not going to pad anything else, like you're not going to pad the shins, you're not going to pad the knees or the elbows, why are you padding the knuckles? You're just giving people a false sense of security in terms of what is actually effective.

We don't want to practice something that doesn't really work if you don't have gloves on, right? I mean, if every time you punch someone, you don't have gloves on, your hand would break. You would go, okay, clearly you can't punch people. It's stupid. You got to use elbows and knees and you got to do something else. I see what you're saying. Right, right, right. So in order to fight with your knuckles as much as UFC fighters do, you pad everything.

You put wraps. You put wraps. You put padding over it. Boxing is like, it's a different world as soon as you take gloves off. It's a different world. Punches get in that you can't block. It's way more consequence, a lot more cuts. But at least now we know what actually works. Right.

That's interesting. I wasn't thinking about it from that point of view. at least if now we know what actually works. Right. That's interesting. I wasn't thinking about it from that point of view. Yeah. That has given people, people are thinking that, uh, yeah, you're right.

Like people think that boxing, well, before MMA, everything was the most effective way of doing things. Yeah. But then when you, MMA is a whole different from the size of the boxing glove of the techniques you can do and what you can't do and what's going to work and what's not going to work yeah it's it's supposed to be the sport of fighting and you've basically brought it down to a raw form but you're still covering the knuckles

and patting the knuckles just because of perception and see the problem with that guy this bare knuckle boxing guy when he says some stupid shit like that, is that it reinforces what people don't like about combat sports, what people don't like about the idea of bare-knuckle boxing, that it's brutal and it's just there for chaos and blood. Right, right, right. We come for action. We're here to see action. People think that about MMA.

Yeah. And I don't think that about mma yeah and and and i don't think that um i don't think that mma athletes i think mma athletes i think are the most honorable and uh well behaved and you know not because of fear anything because of what the sport is yeah you're getting out like i mean people they know event you know that they're it could because our aggressive nature is being put in a channeled channeled channeled in an organized way to make sense i'll tell you one of the most aggressive i run around the rose bowl when i see the peloton come around that's one of the most aggressive things i've seen

man those dudes are constantly cursing each other out and cursing everybody else out all the little soccer moms out there trying to run around the rose bowl but the guys yeah man oh but the guys throwing punches are never you know cursing people out you know so the runners no no what's the peloton the guys on the bikes but isn't that like oh i thought peloton you stand still i don't know i was making i'm not i'm talking about the guys at the rose bowl it's really it's a bike race no i'm saying they'll come they'll train there oh when they come on they train man where they're riding stationary bikes no they're riding together they're riding together and they're out there they're not racing they're no they're they're training and they know there's there's some aggressive those dudes are

aggressive because they're cutting each other off and shit is that maybe just maybe just to follow the rules right or just there's the wordoton, which means a group of cyclists. It's not the same as that brand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. So the cyclists get together and they're racing. I backed off of it because I didn't think I'd use the word properly. You're right, you're right. I was like, whoa, wait a minute.

Wait a minute. I thought I used a big word and made a mistake. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. All right, okay. So these people, they're racing and they're cussing each other out. They're training. Oh, so they're not racing. They're just training together on the same track.

I think they're training together. Well, it's at the Rose Bowl. Okay, you've been to the Rose Bowl, right? Yes. You know there's a running loop? Yeah. You go and you can get in 5K around it real quick. Yeah.

Those dudes are intense. Really? Way more intense than I see our athlete tactics. Well, because there's not as much consequences. Right. They're not going to get off the bike and beat each other's asses. I feel like they're about shit. Really? Yeah. I bet they are. Well, it there's not as much consequences. Right. They're not going to get off the bike and beat each other's asses. I feel like they're about shit. Really?

Yeah. I bet they are. One time I wish one of them would have come back and let me. It's like road rage, right? You get road ragey when you're in your car. I was like, your workout's done. Don't do another lap. I'm looking for you.

That's at the Rose Bowl. Oh, okay. And so they get mad At each other Because they're trying To pass and shit Oh man it's intense It's aggressive Maybe because

There's probably rules To it I think I think there's like Probably way There's probably a lot Of structure As to writing In a pack like that

Right And then also They're trying to get Their work out in And then there's Other people out there Trying to do other stuff And they're real serious

About theirs I mean You know Yeah It's aggressive yeah it's aggressive maybe it's just shocking to me because it doesn't look like it would be that aggressive right because when you think about fighters like especially guys even training together it's rare that they swear at each other and talk shit to you like if two guys get in an argument like if

somebody guy doesn't let go somebody tapped and people scream or something like that. Yeah, and so that's the other thing. I think that's why the respect has to get better. You have to put yourself in situations where you're going to be at a disadvantage and vulnerable. And so you have to trust your training partners to have this level of respect, and you're going to have to reciprocate that. Yeah, well, especially with things like leg locks. Yes, exactly. You got to be really careful to let go quick. And man, this leg lock game that people are doing now today.

I need to learn it. I don't know it. Yeah, see, that's the thing. I used to think I was good at leg locks. They used to be so simple. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, yeah, because I guess it wouldn't take much to be good at leg locks. You just have to be willing to do them back in the day, right?

Everybody else is like, no, no, no. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It used to be like a simple setup yeah you dive on a heel hook dive on a toe hold now dudes are very intense yeah and there's other some people were good at they were doing other things yeah like maybe the way they hide their feet or the way they do this well i gotta say that the first guy in modern mma that started really wrecking people with leg locks was Imanari. Yeah. And then Pajaras. Yeah.

It was Imanari and Pajaras. Those are the two guys. I remember George Gurgel, he fought Imanari, and Imanari ripped his fucking knee apart, man. And Gurgel's a Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt. It was very early in the fight. Imanari just did that Imanari roll, just dove on the knee, and next thing you know, he's got you in a fucking inverted heel hook.

And then Paul Harris, anything you can't defend, it's like. He's too strong. Yeah, he's too strong. So he can do, and the way he's built, he can do a lot of stuff that just doesn't make sense. Remember he had that guy against the cage on a single. It's like nobody's worried about a leg lock from there. Boom, invert it.

Those legs grab you're not going anywhere yeah yeah yeah he was devastating he didn't let go and he would really really mangle your fucking knee right yeah so like that's what i remember when uh because i i got to referee him in brazil before he was doing a lot in the uf And so I kind of seen him in, like, I think one maybe in a tournament format. And I've never had any problem, but, you know, he stopped when I told him to. You know, but I don't know. There's one fight of his from, I think it was from Brazil, where he's got somebody in a leg lock and he's not letting go.

And I think it's a leg lock. See if you can find it. But it's an early fight in his career but it's crazy like they're like trying to pull him off the guy and he's not letting go like a like a pit bull right right yeah and he's so strong so strong and apparently his upbringing was horrific yeah like i heard he had a tough he's you know it's weird it's like because you see that behavior and I always see him he seems like you know how some people have a cool energy

when they're just around it always makes me smile when I see him but I don't smile when I see that I mean you know what I mean but he's one of those guys

that's like soft spoken easy going I think something happens to that guy when he engages you know when you're locked in mortal combat

he becomes just pure savage yeah and he when he i mean he does leg locks that no one else does because no one else is strong enough to do to have those legs that just when he yeah i mean he doesn't care if both legs are there arms in there anything it's all it's all it's all trapped it's all getting trash compacted yeah you know um he had a very interesting grappling match with Gary Tonin. Did you ever see that? I did see that, yeah.

I didn't, yeah, I saw some clips of it, like some bits of it, yeah. It really shows you how good Gary Tonin is. Yeah, Tonin's amazing. Yeah, he's great, yeah. Because Paul Harris is so much bigger than him. I mean, he's probably 40, 50 pounds heavier than him. He's much bigger than him, you know. And to watch those guys go back and forth

it's really really interesting yeah but yeah tony like he's he can he's one of those people who get you know you get a position but it's still just so hard to so he can just move away you know well his grappling's so elite and he's getting really good at striking now too and he's really dedicated to mma and he's undefeated. He's been fighting in one FC, which I'm excited. I'm very excited about one FC. I love what they're doing. I love the attitude they're taking

of making it about respect and martial arts and bringing it to some old school martial arts values. They're fucking gigantic right now in Asia. They're putting on great fights and they have the best fighter in the world. They have Demetrius Mighty Mal Johnson. And what's really cool is because there's a lot of guys in Asia who are really exciting to watch at that weight. So it's kind of exciting to see him get over there with all these guys.

I'm really excited about that. Well, he got tested in his first fight. I mean, he won by submission, but he got tested. And Alvarez got stopped by that Russian dude, Timothy. What is his last name? The guy that stopped. God damn it. I forget his name.

The guy stopped Eddie Alvarez. Timothy. It's Timothy, not Timothy. It's some strange Russian name. Timothy. No, I don't remember his last name. But anyway, he's a beast. Nasty Yukon.

Nasty Yukon. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Nasty is in his last beast. Nasty Yukon. Nasty Yukon. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Nasty is in his last name. Yeah. Nasty Yukon. The first letters of his last name are nasty.

Timothy Nasty Yukon. Did you see that fight? No. Play the stoppage. Play the, uh, the knockout, the far,

far right one. No, the far right one. That one right there. Oh yeah. Okay. Just play right there. There you go.

This dude is, this Russian cat's a beast, man. He was very seasoned in there, like really relentless with his pressure and super confident in his power. And he stunned Alvarez a couple times in that fight. I was pretty shocked. I think there are a lot of guys that aren't in the UFC that are capable of fighting in the UFC. That's what I'm saying.

So, like, definitely. There's, um, I get to see a lot of those guys at those shows in Russia. See, I'm watching this, Kat, and this is not like a freak knockout or something like that. This guy's got real smart technical striking, and he also puts tremendous pressure on, and he's also got big power. And they're amateur combat sports. Yeah. Like, you know, combat sambo and things like that.

They get a lot of experience. Yeah. Well, when you see a guy like Khabib Nurmagomedov just run through people in the UFC, and you know where that guy's from, you got to go, well, how many more of those guys are over there? You know?

Yeah. The Dagestan crew, and that's Zabit, too. He's from Dagestan. Isn't Islam Makachev, isn't he from that part of the world as well? Yeah, yeah. That's where- Killers. There he is.

Boom, boom, boom. Boom, boom. That's it. Yeah. So the caucuses, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a warrior group of people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's it. Yeah. So the caucuses, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a warrior group of people. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of history. So I get to go there a lot. I mean, it's really exciting. I get to see a lot of really cool stuff. What is Dagestan like? Okay.

Dagestan was a blast. Dagestan was fun, man. Really? Yeah. I went there. You know, I was there with, it was also at the show. They brought over Verdun and those guys weren't working. Verdun and Anderson Silva, those guys were watching fights.

You just, you know, but I was working. But yeah, they took us around. They showed us a lot of really cool stuff. I went to like, you know, school where some kids, wrestling school. Like a lot of schools that were athletic, with an athletic orientation. And seeing these little kids. They put this little kid up on a bar and had him doing pull-ups man he was doing pull-ups i mean this little kid little bitty kid did i mean it must have been at least 15 pull-ups and then i mean he's a little kid like five six not like something like nine or something like that and

when coach when the coach pulled him off he was mad mad. You could see he was mad. He's like, man, I got more. You know what I mean? He was mad. Like, well, let's show the people what I could do.

And the crowd, they loved MMA so much. They were like, it was like, you know what it was like? It was like, you ever watch those videos of like the Beatles?

You know what I mean? When all the people going crazy, but it's not teenage girls. It's like a bunch of hard little wrestlers. Wow. Just packs like,

ah. Yeah, I've got some pictures from somewhere. Yeah, I can show them to you. Wow. So it's like a bunch of hard little wrestlers oh that just packs like yeah i've got some pictures i have from somewhere yeah i can show them to you wow so it's that popular over there yeah that's now did you see the video of uh those dudes when khabib beat connor and they're shooting machine guns into the air oh um i didn't see that but i saw the uh one of my friends from that area sent me some pictures she was out on the street she sent some pictures uh to um to my wife of them uh some video of guys uh like yeah she and horse racing had horses there were horses down yeah some video that was like oh

horse racing and shooting guns at the same time yeah there were people were it was like uh people were so excited about that. Oh, yeah. That was some energy there, yeah. Can you imagine, you're from a place that many parts of the world have never heard of. Mm-hmm. I don't know how much I thought about Dagestan

before Khabib came around. And then now they have the, not just a world champion, but a guy who smashed the most famous fighter on the planet. Right, right. Or one of the most famous fighter on the planet. Right, right. Or one of the most famous fighters on the planet.

It's like him and Floyd Mayweather are probably the two most famous fighters. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Khabib just ran through him. So, like, he's a huge, huge star over there. Yeah, no, no, yeah.

He's huge. So, yeah, that, yeah, no, it's a fun place to go. Matter of fact, I got to see a lot of cool stuff. Look at this. Dagestan explodes with delight after Khabib defeats McGregor. They're all going crazy with their hats on. Look at people out in the street cheering.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, man. Conor's all the shit talk leading up to that fight man did that backfire like on some people it works and on some people it's just it doesn't work at all and it just makes him more relentless when khabib was hitting him going let's talk now uh-huh come on let's talk now well that's the thing with him you know because he talks the whole time right yeah from the beginning of the year he starts talking khabib does oh yeah he starts talking really what does he say well didn't you hear when he was fighting johnson yes he's telling

give up give up yeah yeah yeah you know i need a title shot give up and then he got him in that horrific kimura i was watching that kimura i was like don't you fucking tap. Come on, man. Tap. Come on, man. Ah. Jeez. Ah. Just feeling everything going pop, snap, pop. Ah. Oh. They didn't want to tap, man. Johnson's a tough guy. Yeah, but I, you know, the smack talk, I mean, that's what Conor does.

Yeah. Yeah, but this was a different level. Let's talk. Mm-hmm. He's like, come on, let's talk now. Can we hear it? Yeah, it's Michael Johnson. Let's talk. He's like, come on, let's talk now. Can we hear it? Yes, Michael Johnson. Yeah. In between all that, you have to give up.

You have to give up. Uh-huh. Yeah. He sounds like he really cares about him, too. You know this, I deserve it. I have to fight for the title you know this i deserve it as he's beating him all right yeah and he's talking to someone on the sideline i smash your boy my the scariest thing that he ever said was uh about connor i want to change his face mm-hmm like oh yeah well it changed his face like oh jesus yeah so i heard he's retired right connor yeah you don't buy it right no i don't yeah if you had to guess yeah he's fighting yet

hans mollenkamp you know hans from monster yeah he's had many pictures sparring with connor today oh okay all right Conor's training. Yeah, I know. He's doing something. He's a monster or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He works for Monster. He's training.

He's going to fight. He's probably just fucking with people, you know? I mean, Conor's a master showman in terms of how to keep people interested in him. And I just think he just got way out of line with all this Khabib stuff. But I like the way he takes his losses oh he took it well i like the way i like the way he goes out there and talks smack whatever he went i think as like as a uh i mean like from a sports psychology point of view i think he's uh you think he's developed there you know yeah but i don't think the way to get another fight with khabib is to continue to talk shit after he

smashes you i mean he doesn't have any reason to you can just talk shit like he he didn't just win he smashed and tapped you like it was there's only like one or two moments in the fight where connor was taking control with some of the striking in the stand-up you know and that's another choke that's another misunderstood choke that fulcrum choke that Khabib got Connor with. That is a legit neck crank. Yeah, yeah. And people that don't think, oh, he tapped to that. Like, you would tap to that, too.

And if you didn't, you're stupid. And people are like, yeah, because the chin was down there right there. Like, there's a lot when you're – there's a lot of – it generates a lot of force. It can unhinge your jaw for one. Oh, yeah. Rip your face apart. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's legit.

That's a legit submission. Yeah, especially with that – Yeah, yeah yeah. Rip your face apart. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's legit. That's a legit submission. Yeah, especially with that, the back of the forearm against the back. The back of your forearm against the guy's back as leveraged, which causes that fulcrum. That's horrific. That's very powerful. Yeah, it hurts bad, man. There's a lot of those neck cranks. It's just like, oh, you watch people and you just go, please tap.

Yeah, there it is right there. Like you see with Khabib's left arm, the way it's pressing against the back of Conor and then also yanking on that. That is ripping his fucking neck apart, man. Yeah, you've never, yeah, until you felt one, yeah. But Conor, it's interesting that

the way he's posted up like that. He's trying to get up and he's getting cranked at the same time. Yeah. You got to kind of – he had already been smashed by then too. He'd been hit with so many big punches from the top. He takes a great shot though, I'll tell you that. Yeah. But it's just one of those things where i think in order for him to really have a a real chance at getting another shot

what he's got to do is beat somebody big and say something that makes khabib consider it you know but not in not in the way of what he's been doing in terms of you know talking shit about him and talking smack i mean i think the only way it's going to be public demand like he's been doing in terms of you know talking shit about him and talking smack i mean i think the only way it's going to be public demand like he's going to have to get to a position where people want to see him fight right again to see that the result may be different this time and then maybe if he could just fucking communicate something to him say you know i respect you you know all trash talk aside you know i would like to test myself against you one more time and i think i earned it i think that's the only way he's going to get it i think the only way he's

going to get it is to to win a couple of fights beat some real big name guys and then make it so that's a something that khabib's actually interested in well okay so i don't know if that's the only way but it's the way that would be uh that i would like to see. They already offered it to Khabib. Khabib said, fuck off. Yeah. Yeah. But like that pass that you're talking about, sounds like one that fits good for me. Yeah, I'd like to see it that way.

Yeah. Do you think that trash talking in MMA has gone too far? Or do you like it? I mean, well, I think it's entertaining for some people. I think it's not. Well, here, it's entertaining for some people. I think it's not. Well, here, it's hard because it's not always what I want to see. And it's not, I don't know, it's not the type of person I am. But not everyone's going to be me.

That's what makes the world go round. And a lot of people want to see it. And also, sometimes it does bring some energy and some, you know, when it's well done, it does bring some energy and some excitement to the fight and to the sport. And at the same time, not every fight, what's in, I think what's really interesting and what's really excited about the UFC is that there's a lot of fights that people want to see that have no bearing on the title. And so there's something to that. Fights that just people want to see that have no bearing on the title. Right. And so there's something to that. Fights that just people want to see. And I think trash talk sometimes makes fights that people want to see. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, it makes things emotional. It makes things intense. It's great for selling things. It's great for selling pay-per-views. But the question is, is it good for the sport overall? And should it be something that we encourage? Well, that's the thing is how do we decide what's good for the sport from what way right how do we decide is it good for the way the sport uh do you want the sport

to look as far as martial arts and being a respectful thing and people looking at us like that maybe not uh is it good for the sport or the growth of the sport and for more opportunities for our athletes and for our athletes to become uh uh names that uh that draw attention from other people that normally didn't know about it i don't know i don't know either but yeah so so i don't know i i i'm torn i like both i like a leota machida type character that's very respectful and bows and never talks trash and fights like just a world champion caliber martial artist. And I also like a guy who talks mad shit. I think it's funny. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

I enjoy it. Uh-huh. It's like I like press conferences for that very reason where guys are talking shit to each other and they're looking over at each other on the podium. You know, it's funny. Oh, come on. Some of them, yeah, some of it is hilarious. Yeah.

How about Conor when Jeremy Stevens asked him for a fight? He's like, who the fuck is that guy? No, it was the fact that when he got up, when he was like,

okay, I don't have time to insult everyone, so let's get them all in one place. Right. That was great. So I can insult everyone at one time.

Yeah. Let's be efficient. Come on, this is comedy, man. When he was talking about Red Panties night. Yeah, yeah, that was comedy. We I can sort everyone at one time. Let's be efficient. Come on, this is comedy, man. When he was talking about Red Panties night. Yeah, yeah, that was comedy. We made it, baby. We got that Conor McGregor fight. He's a fucking character, man.

Oh, come on. He's in that weird situation, though, where he really never has to fight again. So you got to wonder what his motivation is. He has $100 million. to fight again so you got to wonder what his motivation is you know like he has a hundred million dollars he has a gigantic whiskey company that proper 12 is murdering it that that place is killing it that that company is they're moving into other countries now i mean they're killing it he doesn't have to do a thing ever financially right unless he wants to eat diamond sandwiches he's like he basically could

do whatever the fuck he wants for the rest of his life and just live off interest but he still likes to fight yeah i think so yeah i mean that's what brought him into the kb fight he didn't have to fight khabib but just you know how much does he want it i mean does he want it the same way a guy like stylebender wants it or a guy like calvin kelvin gastelum wants it and also i think that you know part of wanting it is different too uh maybe maybe he there's maybe people might want things on their terms too on certain terms of way you get it this way like it's like some people like oh you'll want it i want it any way i can get it some people might want it and say well now i want it this way well he was going to fight Cowboy. That was a fight that they were basically trying to make,

but it was going to have to be a co-main event. And because of that, I think Conor was not interested anymore. He wanted it to be a main event. And I'm like, Jesus. Is that really what kept us from Conor versus Cowboy? Can you guys work that out? That would have been great, right? Conor versus Cowboy?

Make that a fucking main event. Make some malarkey title. Come up with some 160-pound title or some shit. Just come on, man. Do it. I mean, they give out these interim titles left and right. How about you come up with some malarkey? Everybody was excited when that was going to happen.

Yeah. Yeah. I was excited to see it. 165-pound malarkey title. Just come on, man. Connor versus Cowboy For the title Yeah

Make a title up Or even without a title Just make it Yeah I agree I don't think it would Hurt at all But apparently Dana says It makes a big difference

In the amount of pay-per-views Okay yeah yeah But now that they're Over at ESPN Plus Is it really gonna be I mean How does that work now You pay

Every month And then you pay A little more For the pay-per-view? Is that what it is? Is that how it works? How much more is it? It's just like $5 less or whatever it is that you're paying.

So it's $5 less because you're monthly. Yeah, monthly. Yeah. Well, that's a good deal if you're into watching all those fights on ESPN+. It is nice. They do have a great library. But so does Fight Pass, right? Where does that put Fight Pass?

No, but Fight Pass, I can't see some of the stuff that's on yeah there's other oh yeah yeah yeah way more there's there's a bunch of obscure muay thai organizations and yeah fight pass is awesome for the gym i have a little home gym with apple tv on it and i always have fight pass on kickboxing watch obscure muay thai fights like right from the arena in thailand you know it's it's really cool like 100 pound guys beating the shit out of each other submission wrestling too oh yeah yeah a lot of abu dhabi stuff is on there all eddie bravo stuff is on there all the eddie bravo invitational combat jujitsu is on there yeah yeah um jujitsu is in a great place right now too right i mean it, there's so many different martial arts that are really at the pinnacle right now.

I mean, I think this is such an amazing time for a person. Right, yeah. So many people, yeah. Martial arts, yeah, this is a great time for martial arts. Well, you remember when you and I first got into it, there was, I mean, there was nothing. Nothing. Like what it is now. Nothing.

I mean, martial arts have been around for thousands and thousands of years and the level of martial arts since 1993 to today is it's indescribably more powerful today

like the athletes are so much better the fighters are so much more well-rounded and even in Jiu Jitsu if you go back to and watch old Jiu Jitsu matches

from like 93 and of course you're going to have like your Hicks and Gracies and your Higa Machados and Chon Chonk Machados who are at that elite level even back then where they can hang with guys today. But overall, the game is like so much more complex.

And also even just the athleticism you see in it today. Oh, yeah. I mean, these dudes are some animals. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's incredible. And really what's interesting to me is that you're really only seeing a small percentage of the elite athletes that are available in North America that even decide to get into it. Right, right.

Like if you talk about how many elite athletes decide to go into baseball or NFL or NBA versus how many elite athletes go into cage fighting. It's not even close. Right, right. But it's starting to get some of them, slowly but surely. A little bit. And some of them are starting to get an interest. And jiu-jitsu is the reason why. Some of them are getting an interest in jiu-jitsu. They train, right?

Like, yeah, for cross training. Yeah, yeah. Doing it for something. But just people want to learn it, you know? Yeah. I mean, if you're a big guy but you don't know how to fight, that's got to suck. Big old giant guy doesn't actually know how to fight. Like, fuck, man.

Better learn some of this shit. Right. Yeah. It's just for those big athletes, the really big paydays are at NFL. And that's the other thing, too, is that a lot of those guys are bigger than 265 pounds. Yeah, exactly. Like, they would have to cut a lot of weight to make 265, which is – isn't that weird that we have a heavyweight division that you have to weigh in for? Yeah, no, I think that is interesting.

But I wonder what the super heavyweight division would look like. It would probably be just a small handful of giant guys. It would probably be like the flyweights, right? In terms of like how few, unlesseland they get those iceland strong men dudes they start fighting mma have you seen uh what's his name the uh polish uh puginowski yeah puginowski fights a lot now i like it and you know what i've man you know when i people were oh we're kind of you know giving him a hard time about it but man puja i have a lot of respect for him man he fights hard he brought a lot uh put a lot of eyes on our sport yes

i'm a fan he's still fighting he's gotten way better he's gotten better and way smaller he never fights any chumps no and he he brings it in like yeah and yeah there he is look at him look at the size of that motherfucker still even look at he looks skillful now he like he's moving much better and here's the thing this guy's getting better got balls of steel yeah he fought tim sylvia that's ridiculous yeah i was like i could not believe that they that's what they put him up against for uh as early in his career like that's what i'm saying fuck the respect that's what i'm like i'm respect like when i was like a respect you you chose him yeah But it was ridiculous.

And he chose him very early in his career. Very early. He really didn't have the skills that he has now. And Tim is a world champion. And the type of body that's very hard for Pudzianowski. Oh, yeah. Long and tall. Long-limbed wrestler who can put his hands on your hips and control your levers

and really make your muscles get fatigued. And make you gas out. Yeah. It started from the beginning, so you can see what it was like early for the beginning. I mean, Tim just started beating the shit out of him once he got tired. But it's interesting because Tim has the opposite of Pujanowski's body. Like, he doesn't have the best genetics. Just tough. And people think that Pujanowski's setup is going to be, but actually, it's very hard

to fight somebody like Tim. Very hard. Very hard. Well, he's also got massive experience advantages. Yeah, come on. I mean, he's fought literally everybody, any good, all over the world. He fought Fedor. Yeah.

Yeah, and he fought the greats. He fought Andrzej Orlowski when Orlowski was a straight-up murderer and orlovsky was in his prime yeah yeah randy couture you know when frank meir broke his arm and he tried to keep fighting yeah that's you too right i forgot to read that yeah i remember that yeah because i remember the crowd was booing like boo i was like you guys you need to look at this yeah yeah no that's a that's a that's let me i will tell you about that. Because that was a fun story. Because, like, they, I hadn't really, it was one of the first times I think they had trusted me with a championship.

And he, you know, the arm broke. I heard it. I saw it. And I remember, you know, I learned a lot. I learned a lot about my job right then. Because I, what I did is I backed off and i let the doctor come in and examine him because like you know sometimes when you're dealing with an expert you don't want to cloud the way you're supposed to get out of the way right like you don't go to the mechanic and tell him what to do so i my mind was thinking like that about the doctor and so of

course he comes in she doesn't know what she's what she saw so he misguides her and says i think he's worried about this and then she's like like, hey, no, nothing's wrong. And I was like, oh, man. In my mind, I was thinking it's been great being here, but I'm not going to be doing this anymore. You know what I mean? And then, you know. That's interesting. You made that switch already in your head. Really.

I swear. I was like, in my mind, I was thinking that. I was thinking about how to get out of there when they start throwing stuff. Oh, no. Because the military camp, remember they were over there wrestling with the Samoan security guards trying to get in there and people were going crazy. People were screaming. Yeah, here it is.

No, that's Minotauro. That's Minotauro. That's his other break. That was an awful one. Yeah, so I was thinking about that. And then, you know, but then you found it. You saved me. I was thinking that my retribution was going to be like some kid on the internet two weeks later like i found out his arm was broken but you found the spot and

so then that's why i was watching the replay and i was like let's take a look at this hold on hold on what's that look at his arm i'm like that's a broken arm that arm is broken look at that watch it one more time oh and i had the truck roll it back again and then i went into the octagon and i remember saying immediately like you guys need to watch this like here we go let's play this here we go that's a broken arm so i'm gonna thank you for that right there because i think my career path would have been different well that was one of those things where i felt an obligation to not just interview the fighter but to explain to the entire crowd like you gotta listen this is a i know it looked crazy look crazy to me too this is a broken arm know it looked crazy, looked crazy to me too. This is a broken arm.

Like, this guy's fucked right now. Three places. And Tim thanked you afterwards for saving his career because he said, if you didn't stop that fight and that became a compound fracture, fuck, man, horrible things happen when the bone breaks through the skin. Yeah. I saw him. That would have definitely happened.

I saw him afterwards and I said, man, did you know your arm was broken? And he told me, he goes, yeah, I know. Well, then what was your plan? Why are you trying to continue? So I knew I had a minute before the pain really became crippling. See, here it is, and watch this part. Right, snap, right there. I mean, that is 100% a double break.

Yeah. Both bones of the forearm snapped in half, and it's an unusual break because of where it is. Yeah. Both parts of the, both bones of the forearm snapped in half. And it's an unusual break because of where it is. Yeah. It just shows you how fucking strong Frank Mir's arm bar is. And how long-limbed he is. Oh, yeah. And what was also weird is how his arm went back into place.

How young and muscular. I talked to the doctor. They say that happens sometimes with athletes. The muscles just put it. Put it right back in. Yeah. Well, he had a plate put in there, man, forever. It's still in there. Look at me, young, little fresh-faced Joe Rog Yeah. Well, he had a plate put in there, man, forever. It's still in there.

Look at me, young, little fresh-faced Joe Rogan. Man, that was... Look how young Frank looks. It's crazy. He looks so lean and young. And he's a big old giant dude now. He was a fantastic commentator. Yeah, no, he was a really good commentator.

Really good commentator. I'm amazed that no one snatched him up to do commentary. Well, you know, it's funny. He was working for ACA. Yeah? He just stopped, though. He was. He was there for a while.

And his commentary, what's weird is he always, as a commentator, I like listening to him, his commentary, and also just talking to him. He always comes up with an angle that I never think of. And it makes sense. It's worth hearing. You're always like, what's Frank going to say about this? You know what I mean? Sometimes, yeah, he gets some weird angles. Very smart dude. Very well makes sense. It's worth hearing. You're always like, what's Frank going to say about this? You know what I mean? Sometimes, yeah,

he gets some weird angles. Very smart dude. Very well-read dude, too. Really misunderstood guy in a lot of ways. But Frank was, I think it was one of the Lesnar fights,

when he fought Lesnar, either before the first fight or the second fight. Yeah. I forget which fight it was. He said he wanted Lesnar to be the first death inside the cage.

And the UFC was like, what the fuck are you saying? And then they pulled him out of the commentary for saying that. And he's like, look, I'm just talking up a fight. And that was it. He was doing WEC at that point, remember? Right, right, right, right. Dude, he was really good, man. I remember listening to his commentary.

I'm like, this guy, I'm a big fan of former fighters doing it i think they do the best commentary he does great company a lot yeah daniel cormier daniel cormier is fantastic he's really good dominic you know who else i like um i like uh dan hardy dan hardy's excellent at it very very he's actually kind of morphed into i mean he really is as solid as anyone as including myself as like is doing like professional commentary he's as good as anybody when we're talking about that too oh felder's good he's outstanding that one uh that fight that's where i learned definitely that when the doctor would the dealer that they don't know what we all take for granted that it's the arm so that was kind of my fault for the um now i

definitely always tell him look this is exactly what happened. This is what I'm worried about. This particular part, you know. Oh, yeah. That's got to be huge for you because, like, if a woman gets into the octagon or a man and they don't know anything about the sport, they're just there because they're a doctor. Right, right. Yeah, they would have no idea what the fuck happened. Yeah, and I didn't even – I know it seems like that should be the first thing I thought about, but, yeah, I didn't. Long-ass time ago, bro. Yeah, yeah.

How many fights do you think you've called? Oh, I don't know. yeah, I didn't. Long ass time ago, bro. Yeah. Yeah. How many fights do you think you've called? Oh, I don't know. Thousands, man. Thousands. Thousands.

Yeah, thousands. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. If you really stop and think about all that experience. Do you,

do you do seminars for young up and coming referees? I do. I just did it this weekend. Yeah, where at? In Pasadena.

Oh. So, you know, you can go on my website, find out about Herb Dean.com. you know you can go on my web site find about herbdine.com also you can follow me at herbdine mma on instagram that's where i usually do stuff yeah we link that on the instagram page when i posted the picture you with the blowtorch

oh okay all right cool i'm worried to see this explosion of followers right here it's coming baby it's coming it's coming explosion yeah no so i i do it uh it's it's a fun i just did it it's uh it's a cool thing because i like uh it's it's a fun i just did it it's uh it's a cool thing because i like doing it because it makes me better every time it makes me have to think about things i i look at uh yeah so we spend three days doing it so they say that about teaching anything right yeah yeah it makes me it makes me a lot better and i always dread it when um when i'm going to do it because sometimes I just dread doing it. And then I haven't finished the whole other part.

The other part I don't like is I have to say no because it's for a certificate. And the certificate is what you need a certificate to get licensed. And so some people aren't going to achieve the certificate. So they can come and take the take the seminar but there is screening right yeah so the first day they uh they we uh we go over a bunch of stuff then they teach me some technique and you know what i mean and so we understand that they understand what's going on in there and so as far as for judging how to evaluate what these guys are actually doing and then so when you say they teach you technique um like they'll you you'll

say to them hey show me how to set up a triangle i go to the so we we do it in um we do it in pasadena so i do it at the at the courtyard marriott right there we got a classroom then i can walk two blocks down and take one block to the right and be at uh savannah uh savant young's fight academy go right there step straight onto the mat We do a warm-up where we get to see a lot of stuff. Okay, yeah, show me arm drag. Show me this. We get a lot of information right there. We take a few notes. All right, yeah, show me a pass. Show me that. Show me that. Then I have them, yeah, teach me a triangle. Teach me by the numbers. Teach me, you know, as it was taught to you or like, and I don't care if you learned it on the internet, but why do you like it and what, maybe

what do you do different to make it work for you and just talk me through it give me as much information as i can one guy this weekend took my course and he gave me so much and i mean i couldn't wait every time it was going it was really good he was a really detailed instructor but he was really good then the but i learned i got a lot of information from some of the other people who i thought was going to be good because in the beginning we tell why we're here sounded like like I had a high-level class a lot of them weren't They didn't know much about They didn't know enough about position and submission. How many guys do you think want to be referees but have no experience in martial arts? Well, I think there's a lot I think it's common, you know on my website. It lets people know like a

there's a lot i think it's common you know um on my website it lets people know like hey uh physical demonstration of uh mma technique is is required to achieve certification you can come out and you know take the seminar if that's fun for you which is cool my hat's off to you you know because it's a lot you can do it your weekend but if you want the certificate you need to understand the techniques yeah at a level that you know that you teach yeah at a detailed level enough because you have to understand the details to make it successful. And that's why you have to, if you're going to evaluate it as a judge, you have to know why it wasn't successful. And you're going to have to be able to talk it through why you gave credit to something

or didn't give credit to something. So this is for judging and refereeing. Judging and refereeing. So the first day I do is judging. And then the judges, the referees, for my, the way I do my certificate, if you want to be a referee, you have to be able to judge also, because everyone assumes that you can, and they'll throw you in the judge's seat. All right, interesting. So you have a judging training. Oh, if you do a small show or something like that?

Yeah. They'll try to do that? Yeah. Yeah. Small show. We used to have this thing where Eddie Bravo used to score the fights in between rounds. It was excellent.

What was good about it is Eddie would break it down on a piece of paper. He would have a right column and a left column. Right column would be you. Left column would be Jamie. And then he would write, okay, Herb took him down three times. Herb almost got an armbar. Herb landed five leg kicks. Jamie cried a lot.

That's what it would say no you know what i'm saying it would say and then he would add it up and he would say this is why i think he won the round this guy had better position but this guy landed the big shots this guy got hurt but he almost got caught in a submission so i gave it real close but i gave it 10-9 to this guy and so you would get a better understanding like how harold letterman used do it. Harold Letterman used to do it for HBO Boxing. And I think that's a good thing. So that's one of the things that we don't really have in our sport

or the way we score around. We don't really score because we don't have a rubric where we're given a signed value for techniques as they happen. So that's not what we're doing. And also, but I think that's a good idea for training.

It's hard to do it the way Eddie does that live doing a round because who can write all that without taking your eyes off for a second? Right, right. And you take your eyes off just for one second, you know, you might miss something that was huge, you know? Yeah. And so that's why a lot of commissions, you know. Well, I think Eddie, what he did was he had like he wrote kicks punches right he has a shorthand system i guess right x's on the sides every time someone took someone down he put a little x and i encourage people to do that and so that's what i do like i you know

well i tell them you know i show them other like different people have different systems of shorthand to take some notes because uh in the back you want to you're going to want to have some notes especially when um when the matches are done. They'd say there's a split decision or there's a split round, there's an outside judge. Everybody's going to be getting their game together, their reasons, why they gave it that way. So you're going to have to be able to talk about it.

So that's a good way of scoring a round is preparing yourself to be able to talk about what you actually saw and what happened in context to the scoring criteria. That's awesome. And then this certificate is from you? Is that how it works? It's from me, but recognized by certain organizations that are going to make it so that you can get a job. So it's from me. And here in the United States, it's recognized by the Association of Boxing Commissions.

And if you're going to apply to, let's say, Camo here in California, you're going to have to have a certificate of training before you apply to the amateur or before you apply to, let's say, the Boxing Commission out in Tennessee to the Athletic Commission out there or the Athletic Commission in Nevada. They're only going to hire people who have taken a course that's uh recognized big john does one as well yeah um a couple other people do them that's excellent yeah yeah big john's is coming up uh in june that fight week weekend does a big one june 6th and 7th i just did mine um june 6th and 7th where at do you know where it is nevada and so yeah if you look For his social media Is there a UFC card That weekend Yeah yeah

That's why he does it then Yeah I'm giving a plug To my competition But it's okay It's okay To the end of the day We want people to get

Some good training And get information Well Big John Is not competition anymore Now he's a commentator Yeah but for my training He's never as competition As a referee

Right We're trying to do But as far as for my course i want people to take my course but if they're not going to take mine i want them to take his no he's he's awesome too yeah no that's yeah there's a few a few guys that i get very excited when i see that they're refereeing a big fight i'm like okay i don't have to worry about that definitely big john i know yeah i've always felt very comfortable damn he's been in there from the very beginning from the beginning i mean there is not a person alive that has more old school credibility than big john and more high level fights oh yeah man and he's seen it all the good

the bad you remember marillo bustamante versus um. Oh, yeah. He had to tap him twice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big John stopped it and then Matt Linlin complained and they let him fight again. I'm like, no! Oh, you're going to go bring up, yeah,

bring it up that old. What about the other one too, right? Conan and Sakuraba. Oh, yeah. Conan and Sakuraba in Japan. Yeah, the Japanese made them fight again on the same night.

When the fuck has that ever happened? It's not going to happen again. Never. And that was from a punch, too. Stopped from a punch, right? Yeah. He dropped down, grabbed ahold of the ankle.

Conan hit him with a punch. It looked like he fell. Right. But that's the way Sakuraba shoots. Yeah. He shoots like this. It looks like he, you know. Like he's going out.

Yeah. Yeah. And then caught Conan in an arm bar in the second fight, the second time they fought that night. That night. And that was crazy. We couldn't believe a Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt could get tapped. We're like, what?

What? And Sakuraba, who's smaller than him. What? And then we realized who Sakuraba was. Yeah, man. Sakuraba was. He, to me, really carried the flag of catch wrestling, the Carl Gotch style of submission holds, more so than probably anybody else who ever fought in MMA.

Yeah, definitely. His style was all Kimuras and arm bars. Remember when he used to tape his legs up and look like the guy could barely walk, man? Yeah. How the fuck was he fighting so good? His legs would be mummified. And he's doing submission wrestling now right yes he's fighting he's fighting quintet right yeah yeah um yeah he fought uh his crew uh fought eddie bravo's crew right now my friend richie tapped him my friend richie martinez boogeyman yeah okay yeah that's

a lot for boogie's bad for a lot to deal with. Yeah, unless you're 100% full-time grappler. And Boogie's got nasty Darce jokes. Man, you caught him in a Darce. Yeah, and Boogie's got all that breakdancing. His flexibility is ridiculous. Yeah. And his dexterity is ridiculous, too.

I feel like, you know, there's some people you say, okay, he's good. Then there's some people you look at as so, like, I've never got to, you know, roll with him. But he looks like one of those people that, like, you don't know what it feels like until you feel it. Get it? Yeah. Yeah. He's very strong. Yeah.

His brother is, too. Gio's very strong, too. But then they came from that breakdancing background where they just have the ability to manipulate their body. So, and you, it's almost like a gymnast, you know? Right, right right exactly but maybe even more so because they like do a lot of stuff where they're standing on one arm and bouncing around in the lotus position yeah yeah on one arm like one arm handstand with their legs crisscrossed up in the air and they're bouncing around it makes you want to give up like there's no need for me to do this i can't keep with that yoga man you're

gonna be amazed if you keep with it How much dexterity improves And your balance improves And everything But we were talking about it Before the podcast started That it's so good for your old injuries Yeah

Especially that hot yoga Mm-hmm I'm not I mean you know I'm probably a little bit annoying right now I'm like a little Bikram yoga evangelist Yeah they get annoying

I know Yeah yeah It's like Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu blue belts I've been born again I love annoying right now i'm like a little bikram yoga evangelist yeah they get annoying i know yeah yeah brazilian jiu-jitsu blue belts i've been born again i love you know bikram yoga yeah i'll die i'm guilty as charged i do that shit all the time i do that with everything i like though i get annoying it's fun though i i give i've been doing it in other countries too so like oh really when i don't take when i take those breaks that's what gets me you know derails me so i'm like you know i'm gonna do the extra work find a place when i get there so i got to go uh do it in prague and and warsaw and st petersburg and there's a little different flavor you know what i mean so it's cool that's dope yeah i'm a big fan i like to do it on

the road too uh mostly i do it at home but But it's just, it also, that strain of that 90 minutes, I think, is like meditative. There's no music. You're just in the poses for 90 minutes. It's cleansing. Yeah. Releases all the bullshit you hold on to in your brain. Yeah, no, it does, yeah. Sweeps that out the door.

No, it helps with all that. Herb Dean, we've been talking for three hours. Oh, really? Can you believe that shit? Wow. Crazy. yeah bye hey well you know what actually it's kind of cool because we hang out with each other a lot but this is the first time we got to talk for three hours i know right we've seen each other for years yeah we get some dinner together or hang out at the fights it's like brief conversations brief it's at the airport you know what i mean i'm pissed that you're not gonna be in atlanta this weekend man yeah damn yeah no what the fuck how does that work like how do you know like when

you do and don't get sometimes they call me and you know there's some athletic commissions i know are gonna call me atlanta i thought would be one of those that because i've usually done it when they've been there i've done it how often do they tell you in advance they don't tell me that sometimes they tell me far sometimes not so far far. So some commissioners, they get on board. I got called about Minnesota pretty early. He reached out. He was aggressive about getting me on there. He was like, man, I really appreciate that.

Figured like, yeah, the man wants to make sure I'm there. There's a Brazil show that's coming up. Cristiano, the commissioner, he reached out to me a long time ago. Beautiful. And said, hey, man, I want to make sure you're at this. Who's on that card? Who? The Brazil card.

Let me see who's on that card. Let's look that up. Let's see who's on that card. I think there's some good fights there. Isn't Aldo fighting on that card? He's got like a big fight on that card. Aldo's in a comeback surge right now after knocking out hanato moicano i mean that was gigantic it might not be labeled yet sometimes like the ufc doesn't

put it up on its website you know they don't put it up what's that i'm a unis oh rose is that jessica Oh, Rose. Oh. Is that Jessica Andrade? Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's exciting. That girl's a little pit bull. Jessica Andrade is terrifying. Did you see that knockout of Karolina Kivakovich? Yeah. She KO'd her with that overhand right. Like, Jesus.

Anderson Silva and Jared Kananir. Holy shit. Aldo, that's right. Volkanovski. That's a fucking fight. Aldo's right volkanovski that's a fucking fight aldo and alexander volkanovski volkanovski is a fucking juggernaut little nog still throwing down all these years later against ryan span tiago alves against starapoli i don't know that gentleman. Man. PJ Penn versus Clay Guido. What?

What? Damn. Okay. All right. That's a good card, man. What day is that, Jamie? May 11th. Oh, shit.

Might have to have a fight companion. We haven't had a fight companion in forever. Herb, you should sit in on one of those if you're in town, man. I would love to. They're the best. Yeah, yeah. Okay. People get ridiculously hammered.

And if Eddie Bravo starts throwing around conspiracy theories, you got to check your watch. Right, right, right. Damn, look at the time. So, yeah, we'll drink some beers and stuff like that. Okay, yeah. Did you say it's May 11th, Jamie? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm open right now.

Maybe we can make it happen. But I'll be there. You'll be there. Oh, you will be there. I found out ahead of time. That's what it's all about. Yeah, yeah. Brazilian one.

Okay. We'll get you in for one of these. We should get, because most of the time it's not the four of us. Most of the time it's like two or three and so we always,

we have room for others. Okay. You're a bad motherfucker. I appreciate you. Thank you so much for having me on, man. Always cool hanging with you. Yeah, good times.

Herb Dean, ladies and gentlemen, and tell people how they can find you on Twitter and Instagram. Yeah, Herb Dean MMA. On everything. Yeah, good times. Herb Dean, ladies and gentlemen, and tell people how they can find you on Twitter and Instagram. Yeah, Herb Dean MMA. On everything? Yeah, on everything. And HerbDean.com.

HerbDean.com. Find out about your course. Uh-huh, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, thank you, brother. Okay, thank you. Herb Dean, ladies and gentlemen. That's right. Oh.