The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #64 with Khalil Rountree Jr.

Episode Date: April 25, 2019

Joe is joined by UFC Light Heavyweight fighter Khalil Rountree Jr.

and boom what's up man how are you good thanks for doing this thank you for having me on i was so impressed with uh your performance from that past ufc that i had to i had to talk to you i was like that was i've seen guys make like you were always a very dangerous striker from obviously from the go-kansaki fight everybody got to that. But to see how fluid you were against a beast like Eric Anders. I mean, Eric Anders is a scary cat. He's coming for blood, right? You were so fast, man. It was crazy to watch.

It was really interesting. Thank you. If you had to give yourself a percentage leap that you've gone up over the last year, what do you think it would be? Compared to like? Who you were before that. Not that high of a leap. Not that high of a leap.

I mean, like that performance for me was – like I feel good about it, but that was only four months. So I'm like, I know that there's so much more for me to gain. That's why I'm like, yeah, I got to go back. So the leap, not too much because i know there's still a lot more to go a lot more yeah wow so you've decided so for people who don't understand what we're talking about you went to thailand you spent four months down in thailand and um you dude you were fighting like a thai boxer it was crazy like mark delegrate who uh

works in the production truck he's the guy who picks out the instant replays he and i talk back and forth sometimes while the fight's going on. And Mark, you know, with his heavy Boston accent, like, dude, classic Thai. He's classic Thai stance. And he would just throw light on that front leg. Dude, that inside leg kick was so ferocious.

It was fun to watch, man. So it's just usually wherever I go, I've always been good at just like kind of absorbing the culture I'm a guy like I can go into a room full of people and I can just kind of pick up what the energy is like and that's another reason why I wanted to go to Thailand so just the way that they train and the discipline the power but the relaxation like everything i was learning just like man there's so much more to muay thai so i would just even the days that i didn't train i'd just sit around and just watch these guys because muay thai is more than just punching kicking elbows man there's balance you know what i mean there's there's repetition like how many kicks

are you throwing you know the guys at the stadiums, they're like, they're kick, kick, kick, kick. Yeah. So I was able to learn a lot, man, and there's still a lot to go. It's beautiful to see someone on that pursuit, and I think it's much like Roger Mayweather said about boxing. Like, most people don't know shit about boxing.

And when he said that, it's like, if anybody is going to say that, he's going to say that. Because there are levels and layers and there's there's paths to go down and it's interesting when you see someone like committed with a very like a very specific style like your like your adoption of that muay thai style so it's so effective as a striking style it's really interesting when you think of all the different ways to attack with striking, that that one way became very particularly successful.

You know, before I even started training MMA as a whole, my first martial arts class was a Muay Thai class. I knew that I wanted to train Muay Thai or learn Muay Thai um and so since I've started I always thought like yeah I want to go there you know just maybe it's cool but um Muay Thai has always been my thing but I never really learned it like the actual way you know like from from the root yeah of uh of where it comes from always just kind of like passed down or like Brazilian style Muay Thai. Right. You know, like shoot the box type stuff.

So that's completely different from stadium Muay Thai. And most people don't know shit about stadium Muay Thai. Right. Like unless you go to Bangkok. Let's characterize it for people. Would you say that that Curitiba style is just way more aggressive, different way they utilize techniques? Yeah. It's not light on the front leg.

So sometimes Shogun would be light on his front leg a little bit. One thing that they were doing a lot that's pretty similar is just like they go at it. Shoot the box, they'll go at it, and you just go until the other guy stops pretty much. But from the shoot the box i was like very combo based like punches and kicks so like one two like you have to memorize these crazy combos cordero is he like i think he's one of the guys that just like passed it down a lot diego limo guys like that but yeah they have this system and it's very like combination based um memory slipping punch kick all this stuff but the ties are just like it's just straight kick you know like punch you you fall down on that front foot

elbow knee it's just it's broken down completely differently um it's just a whole a whole different style yeah it is like so the the shoot the box stuff has punches kicks knees elbows combinations same tools that you're going to use in Muay Thai but Muay Thai has got a whole different game plan you know clinching like I've never trained as much clinching in America as I have in Thailand in just four months and I've been fighting or training now for like nine years so just in four months I've gotten more clinch time in thailand than i have you know in my whole career and that's because it's a whole different game you got to master the clinch and in muay thai you have to for effective like real true muay thai are you getting

a lot of wrestling over there yeah so that's one thing too i heard um i heard shop talking about it um tiger has amazing like it's an amazing gym 40 to 60 guys on the mat from everywhere chechnya wow you know in everywhere and everywhere man those guys they come there maybe for a week maybe two weeks um maybe for a month but you're getting constant um good training grappling everything mma boxing crossfit everything you need is in one place it's it's it blew my mind being there honestly um that's fascinating and you're do you are you the coaches that you were working with before are you still working with them and thailand are you just gonna i know you talked about actually moving to thailand yeah yeah the plan is to move there as soon as possible.

Really? Yeah. So I was hitting you up like, Joe, I want to get on your show. I want to talk a little bit. But yeah, the plan is to move to Thailand within the next couple weeks for at least a year. And I want to go there just because I can just train. The lifestyle is completely different. I can walk to the gym, hop on a motorbike. It's just, it's so simple. But to answer the question about my coaches, I always have my brother in my corner. He's just kind of like moral support. We started this together.

type of like support um lorenzo pavlica and then my head coaches have switched probably two or three times in the last couple fights i had kenny johnson from black house um john wood from syndicate and now i have george hickman from tiger muay thai yeah and so this change that you decided to make uh did it come after the johnny walker fight yeah so the johnny walker fight like that camp was tough man like i was doing so much to try to improve in my wrestling and grappling because that was always like a big hole in my game um so i spent so much time wrestling over at black house with kevin casey and this guy that i fought blake troop they're huge and these guys are great grapplers. Kevin Casey's a powerhouse.

Yeah, he'll put you into the ground, and he feels like cement block on top of you. Yeah, it's old-school Hickson jiu-jitsu. Exactly, that pressure, man. So, yeah, I was just grinding myself into the mat every day for that camp, expecting, like, okay, I'm comfortable on the feet. If it goes to the ground, I'm ready. camp expecting like okay i'm comfortable on the feet if it goes to the ground i'm ready and um i i think i just completely lost sight of like my striking my muay thai in that fight his size everything i just kind of froze up man i was just like i didn't know what to do how to

get there so it's all part of the education right i mean this is what this this career of fighting that you're on this path is what it's all about yeah and fighting for me is like big self-awareness too you know i think it's always important though when a guy has a setback to see how he responds some people get discouraged some people get encouraged some people just decide like they're going to be much more committed and that's what you did you just i mean making that move to do your camp in thailand and seeing how it paid off i mean eric anders is a very tough customer, and you essentially shut him out.

Yeah. I mean, it was very, very impressive, man. That was the plan, though, because I knew he was tough. He's tough. I trained with him before. I sparred with him before that, everything. And, like, I've watched all of his fights. The guy's hard to put away. We were making a case for the fight being stopped.

Yeah. We were making a case. I mean, DC was saying, like, we can stop this fight. I was saying it. I was like, you were fucking his legs up. I didn't even think about it during the fight.

I wasn't like, I'm sure you weren't. But that guy's so damn tough. He kept coming, man. I mean, he never stopped trying to win that fight. Yeah, there's no quit in him. None.

I mean, even in the Santos fight, remember? Yeah. Do or die. Do or die. Yeah. And then he tweets. He's like, I haven't been that tired since my wedding night or something like that. He's always got good tweets after the fight.

Shout out to Eric Anders. I love what John Anik said, too. He loves when he fights because then Bruce Buffer has to say, ya boy. Ya boy. Eric, ya boy. Hey, where does he keep his suits man he's got a new suit oh he's a bad motherfucker dude the insides of him always has like different decorations and shit they commemorate different places where we're at bruce puffer he's he's got style i just imagine him have a level on his house just oh yeah you know like a mall you know what i mean like you go to nordstrom or something but his is just all the suits that he's worn before i mean unless he

donates him he might donate them to charity that might be one of the auction them for charity or something like that that'd be good yeah he's uh he's a fun dude he's the best ring announcer of all time too man when that guy starts wailing he gets so pumped up seriously his fucking head gets right he's like he's so intense man like if you watch boxing they're much more smooth bruce buffert gets into it man he digs in i remember seeing him first yell at like at tj dillashaw and he was like oh i was like oh shit he gives you goosebumps he really does he gives you goosebumps yeah you just feel his energy right you're just like I'm there wait ready for a fight like I'm kind of nervous and then Bruce comes over like yeah out of the blue corner you're like

we're talking about a dude who blew his ACL out from jumping up in the air while he was reading someone's name oh my god that's how intense he gets he blew his knee he's fucked his knee up from just getting crazy oh yeah oh joe really quick what do we got okay so um remember i told you to turn your airdrop on during the show um so i didn't want to come here empty-handedly so i haven't slept in probably 24 hours, more than 24 hours. But last night I was drawing and I know you like art. So I was like, let me draw these illustrations for you. So I just want to send them to you.

Okay. So turn your airdrop on. It's on. And as soon as it comes through, I'll send them. But yeah, I really just like, man, I just want to, if you want to keep them, use them for like wallpapers or post them up, whatever you want. You made this? Yeah.

I did all these, man. Dude, I look ridiculous. Yeah, I did the little like. I'll put it on Instagram later. Cool, man. It's very cute. What it looks like, man? I'm getting ugly.

As I get older, get older pictures of me when i was no i saw this picture of you in the gym and you had this like crazy face i'll actually show you the the um the actual one it's oh i know what you're talking about you know i'm talking about yeah i was going crazy during this stupid fitness challenge i was having with my friends we were working out doing six hours of cardio a day trying to beat each other and so stupid that's when I was taking that picture. That was a good one. I was like, yeah, let me copy that one.

So when you decide to move, are you taking anybody with you? You go solo? I'm going to start off going solo. I would like to get my brother to come visit. I'd like to get my mom to come out. Really? It's awesome out there. Yeah, yeah. And just cheap and just kind of simple living. to come visit i'd like to get my mom to come out really as many awesome out there yeah yeah and

and just cheap and just kind of simple living my and my mom i don't think she's ever left the country so i think it'd be really cool for her to go out there but at the moment i'm just really like this place is great for my career right now great for my training so i just want to get there asap get back to work sorry how do you um account for jet lag like do you do you just uh like do you give yourself enough time to adjust to the time difference you know what the whole time i was there i would my sleep schedule was off i never adjusted so i was going to bed maybe 2 30 a.m every morning and then like get up run at five and then you know get tired later get tired later it's weird right schedule was every morning and then like get up run at five and then you know get tired later get tired

later yeah weird right schedule was all off and then when i came back it took me like a week or two to adjust so i was disappointed how stupid my body was yeah hey dummy go to bed now i'm telling you just go to bed now like i didn't know my body had such a rigid schedule when you jack that thing sideways and you're on the other side of the planet your body just really doesn't know what the fuck is going on seriously and then for me being stuck in that plane for so long yeah it's like yeah you're too big for them little seats too yeah so when you do that if say if you have a fight in vegas you're from thailand to vegas do you show up two weeks early yeah well this is my first time um flying back to the states after being in Thailand and I flew a week early no I flew two weeks early one week I

stayed in Vegas and then fight week stayed in Atlanta and I think that was perfect timing oh that's good so like you got a little difference in time between those weather too man it's so hot like we train outside and it's humid and hot so um between every round it feels like you know like the third round of a fight if we're going into the championship rounds i've never been there but i'd imagine that it'd feel very shitty and uh that's how it feels every round in thailand it's just like you're covered in sweat hot thick yeah that was probably like my fifth round or something like that and we dude i was dead by this point shout out to the editor for making me not look as tired as i was yeah so what we're looking at folks for the people who are just listening is a bunch of videos of you training

strength conditioning pommeling up against the the wall so you're getting everything down there yeah and that's jose Joseph Henley right there. He was on the Ultimate Fighter. I forgot what season. They called him Leonidas. He's a black belt out there, and he helped me out a lot, man. You run into so many different people, and he's like, yeah, black belt, any type of grappling you want, any positions you want to work,

we'll go over it, we'll create a system, whatever. So he was a really big help in this preparation for this fight yeah a bunch of free spirits living there right so many so many but everybody's down there with a goal like they want to get in shape they want to get healthy or yeah spiritual path whatever it may be yeah there's something romantic about the expat living in thailand having a good time you know something romantic about that It's interesting That's really cool Yeah I mean That whole culture man I mean The Thai

Muay Thai culture What a phenomenon If you look at combat sports I mean this one That it's so tied into these stadiums It's so tied into gambling And betting It's so

I mean Kids get indoctrinated into it At a very young age Super young Super young There's guys at the gym That I was at and bedding it's so i mean kids get indoctrinated into it at a very young age super young super young there's guys at the gym that i was at um little kids they'd come right after school and they go to muay thai training and they're training just like the older guys and then they go right back to like home eat dinner but that's just their lifestyle so it it starts as a kid it's like go to school muay thai go sleep and then as an adult it's like go to school, Muay Thai, go to sleep.

And then as an adult, it's like Muay Thai, feed your family, Muay Thai, feed your family. These guys live at the gym. Jesus. They live at the gym. And they go home maybe two days after a fight just to take care of their families and then come right back to the gym and get ready for the next fight. Now, of course, at Tiger Muay Thai, you've guys, everybody knows various people in different organizations, UFC, Bellator, what have you, One FC. But what about those guys that are fighting in those little small Thai gyms and stadiums? How much access do they have to grappling?

Are they satisfied to just do Muay thai or is there at all like a movement in thailand especially at tiger um a lot of those guys are coming over to the mma and learning jujitsu and wrestling one of the guys i was learning to clinch from um he was like um he's got probably 300 fights um 300 muay thai fights and he started training mma and taking mma fights so it's that they're they're definitely opening their mind to it and and hopping in there 300 Muay Thai fights, and he started training MMA and taking MMA fights. So they're definitely opening their mind to it and hopping in there. And there's access. In Bangkok, it's a little different because that's very stadium-based,

like high-level Muay Thai. And they're not too focused on MMA. There are a couple MMA gyms, but if you want to do that, if you want to get the best of both worlds, it's in Phuket, a tiger. So is there any MMAma at all in bangkok uh they got a couple places but nothing with like at like pro fighters or any high level fighters but they do have they do have maybe three or four mma gyms there with just guys stopping in or guys who practice you know a little bit of everything i'm always really interested in countries that figure something out better than everybody else. When it comes to leg kicking, like nobody figured it out any better than the Ties.

It's like no one argues that, right? No, seriously. And their shins, man. Like I think they're just – that's done for. They don't even feel the front of their legs anymore because they can kick anything. And they're getting kicks checked. There's guys that, joe they'll fight one night at the stadium go five rounds and then sleep and maybe the next day go fight like another small event or a smaller event sometime even in the same night and it's like man aren't you like your shins don't hurt your

elbows don't hurt nothing and these guys they're just like they're bulletproof they're used to this man it's crazy wow and their first time in my life i go into a locker room and the red and blue corner is both in the same room probably as big as this studio and they're all getting their hands wrapped together getting massaged out together everything no weird energy in the room like you know in the ufc like they separate us we have to kind of be separate whatever purposes but like in thailand they're just like hanging out same room you know talking whatever and then they just go fight right after it's so weird like the the piece it's it's so weird man it was the first time i experienced that and i was like maybe i can start lightening up a little bit like it's only a fight and that's

kind of something i had to tell myself um for, for this one, I had to like really fall back and rely on my training because I was really nervous. I was nervous to start, um, to try the new stuff that I learned out. I never threw many light kicks in any of my fights. Um, I've never really did that stance. Everything that I did was pretty much brand new um and i was really nervous i was like what if it doesn't work you know like so many different so many different feelings and um for this one i the only thing i can tell myself is like rely on your training and a few other things i actually got um i got like hypnotized too before. Yeah. Dude. Who did to you? My friend Dominique.

He has this like, I met him through one of the other UFC fighters, like Julian Marquez. I met him through him. And he's like, oh yeah, I do like hypnotism, all this stuff. I'm like, okay, cool. I've done it before. I did it in California. And so I think three weeks, two or three weeks prior to the fight we had a few sessions a week where it just like helped me to really get that visualization clear because we have so many thoughts all the time

right and everything just like thoughts are constantly coming in and to stay focused and to really like like get the outcome that we you you know, set our intention to, it's kind of hard with so many distractions. When you go into his office or wherever you do it and you guys talk about it, do you set a goal before you start the session? We do this thing called timeline therapy. So it's like I'm just kind of sitting there with my eyes closed and we kind of just do this.

We'll pick a subject, whether it's like pain, fear, nervousness, something. We'll just pick a subject, a feeling, whatever's going on. And it's kind of just like a visual timeline of like where did this start, where did it come from, what's the event, whatever. And we kind of just talk about that for a while. event, whatever. And we kind of just talk about that for a while. And, um, I just kind of dig to this place of where the nervousness is coming from or where the, you know, where the fear is coming from or whatever. I kind of just, I find a place on my timeline and I dig from it, whether it's in the future or the past, whatever. And, um, then we get things clear. And then after that, he kind of helps me, guides me into this, like, hypnotism, which is really just like a really deep relaxation. If I wanted to open my eyes or something like that, I feel like I could.

But I wanted to relax. I wanted this to help. You know, I wanted my vision to be clear. So I did my best to just, like, surrender to the process. And I'd say it's not something where I woke up and I was like, oh, yeah, my life has changed. But I can definitely remember the thoughts that I had so that I can stay more on like in that lane of what I wanted. And in my hypnotism, I actually visualized not winning the fight because I didn't want to strive too hard to win. Like, it's just something that I've been kind of studying. It's like

the outcome is not really like the winning or losing. I don't want to base too much on that. I just want to put on like a great performance. So I visualized after one thing, hand, like just having my hands in the air, seeing my brother smile, my coach's smile, and then slapping hands with the crowd on the way out. And then I was also like, and I want to see my win bonus and my show money. And these are the things that I wanted to see. These are the outcomes that I wanted. Not so much just I want to win the fight, but the things that I like how I wanted it to happen. Yeah.

And having that vision clear, it helped me. And so, like, everything that I visualized before that, it happened. I was like, cool. Hands raised. Slapped hands with everybody in the crowd the way out. Signed both my checks. And that was like – that was the end of it for me until the next session, until I want to get clear on something else, you know.

It was cool. Wow. So, had you done anything like that before any mental coaching yeah before the go-kart and soccer fight i did something very very similar yeah with um with another guy was that the first time you'd ever done it first time doing hypnotism yeah definitely and um yeah my friend matthias he's here and uh he's really good too and he'll just like take some notes you kind of just have a conversation in the beginning and everything comes from your unconscious mind it's not somebody telling you something i just dumped out whatever my unconscious mind was telling me he was just helping me to like relax be at peace and just

listen to like my unconscious mind mind just unfold all of these kind of like hidden answers that we all have, you know, so that's it. Now, when you get hypnotized and you're thinking about a specific fight, do you think about specific things you're trying to accomplish, things that you think you'll do to him that you'll have an advantage at or strategy or like, how do you? you'll do to him that you'll have an advantage at or strategy or like how do you so those were thoughts that were happening before my hypnotism but then all of those thoughts were coming from the anxiety or coming from the nervousness you get what i'm saying yes so it's like let's go back on the timeline to why you're feeling nervous. Like all these things are happening.

They're going to, you're anticipating all these things happening and it's making you feel nervous. So let's go back to the nervousness and revisit that. Why? You know? And then my subconscious, my unconscious mind just like spewing things out. And then after the process of that mixed with the hypnotism i'm not even thinking about oh i'm gonna hit this arm drag or whatever i just i'm thinking about having my conscious clear my

mind clear and everything so that i can get the expectation that like or the the visualization that i created yeah so have you tried different versions of that or different styles of hypnosis no not that i can i mean i've done a lot of just like closed eye like emotional intelligence type of like exercises you know like where i'm just like my eyes are closed and I have someone helping me visualize internally, just whether it's dreams or emotional pain or whatever it may be. Yeah, I've had people just like guided meditation almost. Yeah, but the actual name like hypnotism, I've only had it done by two people. Well, when you're watching fighters, I think fighters are one of the most complex puzzles for psychologists because I think it's a super rare state.

Like the rare state that someone gets to where they can be completely calm and see everything in the heat of a dangerous encounter with another trained fighter. Yeah. encounter with another trained fighter yeah and when you're watching these things play out on tv and you oftentimes see how much anxiety plays a factor or doesn't play a factor how much someone having the i don't give a fuck attitude for real it can play it can be a benefit and it can fuck you up sometimes too and to see these complex psychological puzzles play out and see fighters struggle and then regroup have a bad fight and come back better all that stuff is like it's it's really like a giant microscope on the human character yeah you know and like a guy like you who comes back from that johnny walker fight and looks sensational against eric anders man it was like that was one of those things you're like

i like what i'm seeing this guy he figured some shit out man. It was like, that was one of those things where you're like, I like what I'm seeing. This guy, he figured some shit out, man. I mean, like, that was incredible. It was really fun to watch, man. As a guy who really loves Muay Thai, it was fun to watch. Thanks, man. And that's kind of the goal, too, going forward, is that I want to continue to put on stuff like that, continue to learn Muay Thai. Because that fight kind of raised the bar, right? People were like, oh, man, this guy.

For sure. Kind of put me back on the map. So now I'm ready to just go back and, you know. How many guys use mental coaches now, if you had to guess? A good handful. A good handful. Yeah, a good handful. I think a lot of fighters.

Vinny Shorman, he hypnotized me, and he hypnotizes a lot of fighters. Yeah? Yeah, it was a trip. It was very strange. It was like, oh, this is real. It's a weird feeling, right? How long ago was it? It was the old studio, so it had to be at least a year and a half, maybe two years ago.

Okay. Yeah, it was pretty weird. But he's a great mental coach, too, though. He knows what's creeping around your subconscious subconscious just waiting to pop up and play tricks on you you know are you sure you put in enough rounds where does he live uh he's a uk guy okay yeah i gotta get linked up with him yeah i'm all about i don't care anybody i'm like yeah like whatever you got yeah minnie shorman let's go yeah he's a good dude i'll connect you guys i think it's uh probably one of the least trained aspects of fighting is the mental aspect of it.

You realize how good guys are just by watching them train. You see them spar. You see them do all these things. You go, damn, this guy's fucking good. This guy's got great jiu-jitsu. This guy's got great kickboxing. You ever hear about the people that like their sayings, right? Like, man, that guy's amazing

in the gym but when he shows up to fight like he just doesn't put on like i've been that guy multiple times and like yeah a lot of it has to do with mentally yeah that's almost like an unaddressed giant chunk of the puzzle like a third of the puzzle like it was a pie a third is keep it together you know like you know when it's ready to go and now, and it's all happening, don't freak out. And you never, like, here's kind of something I think about. You never know everybody's situation, right? So the day before the fight we have weigh-ins,

and then Dana comes back and, like, he gives us our speech, right? So everyone there, you don't know what life position they're in, you know? So it's like, hey, there's a potential we can get a bonus. So all those guys are affected emotionally somehow. You know what I mean? Some guys maybe they don't care. Some guys maybe they do. But then we walk out, and then there's a crowd, 15,000 people sold out.

Look around. We got Joe Rogan sitting here. We got Mick Maynard sitting here. We got Dana White. We got everybody sitting around. And then we're still human too, so're thinking like this is kind of like a test you know it's like we got all the we got the whole board right here in front of me ready to take my test you know like yeah it really depends on like there's so much that goes into it like

mentally you got to be prepared for a lot of things or some guys block it out but it's just like like anything else you had to know about halfway into the first round some special shit was happening though on this fight yes uh after so after the first round i was very happy i sat down my coaches were like okay this is good this is good you're doing this i was like listen i i don't want to know what's good what should i expect the the next round? Like I was ready to go. I told this straight to George. I'm like, dude, I don't care. What do I need to do next? What should I prepare for? And he's like, prepare for a little bit more pressure. He's probably going to try to shoot for the takedown on this round. I was like, okay, cool. So that I was just looking for that and

using my tools to kind of, to just prepare for that. But, uh, definitely midway through the second round, i was like okay like i know he's still got a lot of power all this stuff but i think that that leg i should be able to you know buy some time and take away a little bit of damage like coming at me i mean he had to be in agony and he never stopped coming yeah i mean like he didn't wince at all like even on the cage when i was just like when he was on the back and i was trying to kick his leg he just his face his facial expression never changed he's a fucking savage man that's crazy he's a bad man respect that guy yeah for sure sure for sure even before like even before the fight now before and after yeah

for sure yeah no i mean maybe even, man. Not everybody can do that. Not everybody can take that. And to do it the way he did it, with 100% of his character intact, never shirked, never shied away from it, kept moving forward, that's a dangerous person. And he's still getting better. Oh, yeah. That guy's just getting better. Oh, yeah.

When you were doing... How much do you think the hypnosis helped you? A really good amount, man. How much different did you feel? Like in what way? I just felt more clear. I feel like a lot of times I can be just kind of like an anxious guy. I feel like I feel a lot of just energy.

Kind of like, I don't know. I go into a room and I'm just like, ah. energy that kind of like i don't know i go into a room and i'm just like ah so having having the focus on having my intention set on what i wanted to happen was 70 percent like i'd owe 70 percent of like the hypnotism all that stuff to just help me to keep my thoughts on track something to fall back onto every single time. If I felt like I was getting distracted or getting nervous or whatever, I would remember the things that we went over in the hypnotism. And so every time just kind of like hit that reset button or just a delete button on thoughts that I just didn't want to have

or thoughts that would make me feel anything other than happy and ready to go. Now how often do you practice this? Do you practice this outside of hypnosis? Is there like some things you concentrate on or meditate on? Yeah. So I do my best to just, it's kind of like the weird thing about me is fighting is something that is just kind of happened by accident, but it's caused me to search for so much peace like inner peace because of everything that i go through emotionally being a fighter so going from this i know shab told you about it but going from this kid who was just like super overweight my whole life never fit in with

anybody i was always just like this introverted gothic weird kid that nobody you know nobody ever talked to never even wanted to fight i've always been non-confrontational but somewhere in the journey of becoming a fighter i was like ah this is cool but i need to find more peace because this is like it's bringing up way too much just like just way too much my of my anger kind of like you know from everything that i held on to so uh practice meditation a lot of meditation i read a lot of different i'll study different religions whatever wherever i'm at um all just to find peace man how does a non-confrontational guy wind up being an elite cage fighter? Stop and think about what I just said.

That's a very strange thing to say. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around it, but I think that internally there's just a lot of expression. For me, it is a big expression man it's an expression of just my my danger my ferociousness this the the the part of myself that I've always held back you know it's like I have to hold back I'm I'm a big guy you know like I if I get angry I'm afraid I can you know break something you're like you know it's like it's crazy so fighting for me like you know, break something, you know, like, you know, it's like, it's crazy. So fighting for me, like when I train after training, I'm super peaceful. Right. After I fight, I feel like I've grown. I feel like this guy's trying to hurt me, all these things. Like it's, it's, it's just a place where we both agree. Like, Hey, I'll give you my strength versus your strength or whatever, whatever powers that strength is what we meet in the middle. And so it helps me

balance, man. It does. Yeah. Cause when I'm not fighting, I'm, I'm so relaxed. It's crazy. whatever powers that strength is what we meet in the middle and so it helps me balance man it does yeah because when i'm not fighting i'm i'm so relaxed it's crazy it makes sense and i think that's something that could aid a lot of men i think just at least training just i think there's something particularly soothing about hitting a heavy bag there's something particular like when you're done man you feel so good when you're done hitting pads when you're done sparring you feel so just peaceful yeah you got it all out you don't have anything left in you nothing a lot of men carry a lot of extra bullshit yeah man a lot of extra extra for no reason you gotta let it out you gotta let it out

yeah some guys will build it up in the gym right and they're super huge and it's like you gotta let it out man you can't even swing those arms what are you doing yeah you see less of that now than you used to it seems like but yeah it just it would be nice if i i really think they should teach kids how to fight at a very early age that'd be cool i think it's the opposite it would have the opposite effect i think people would fight less i think if you taught kids how to fight they would just Train and spar and they would get it all out of their system there and they'd probably fight a lot less It's and it's kind of like in our nature, right? Like, you know, everybody everybody's got like a Curiosity like I wonder what it's like

Yeah, the closest they have to it is the wrestling team You can join the wrestling team and they will teach you a very important part of fighting. But other than that, they're not going to teach you how to fight. But wrestling is kind of like, now at least, it's kind of a loophole. They don't teach boxing in high school, but they'll teach you how to wrestle. They're pretty crazy, man. Crazy. And wrestling's getting rougher, it seems like.

Oh, fuck yeah, man. Yeah. Well, some of those high school kids are savages. I remember being a high school kid in a high school wrestling room. It was awful. You know, those kids were trying to kill each other. They were the hardest, too. Yeah.

Running with plates over their head and all that stuff. The football team was just lifting weights and running practice. Those guys were just slaving. Slaving. Everybody's seen that movie Vision Quest, right? No, I've never seen it. You never saw that? I've never seen it.

Dude, it's Matthew Modine.thew modine plays this badass wrestler and he's going up against this dude who's this other badass wrestler and he comes to visit the guy while the guy's training and this dude's got a log on his back and he's walking up stadium stairs and then and he says you think you make the weight because matthew modine's character's trying to cut weight he goes i hope so he goes hope so too. And he keeps walking up the stairs like, I can't. When did this come out? A long time ago, man.

Back when Madonna was young. Yeah, that's the wrestler. So he's walking up the stadium stairs carrying a fucking log on his back. That dude is jacked. It's a great movie, man. Every wrestler that I knew when I was in high school Everyone worshipped this movie What year did this shit come out? It's probably like

85 or something That's not the cover for it is it? 85 bam I nailed it son Is that the cover for it? Yes It doesn't even look like it had anything to do with a wrestler I definitely would not click that on Netflix Thinking it was a wrestler movie

At all She was hot as a sun, too. Fun times. But, yeah, that was like the quintessential wrestling movie because he just was dedicated. And then there was this friend who lied about being a Native American. Is that what that is? I was going to say, what's that vest he's got going on? He just wanted to be different, stand out.

But it was a fun movie, man. It's a fun movie. I'll have to get into that for sure. Not a whole lot of movies about wrestling. That's the least glamorous but probably toughest sport for high school kids to get into. Definitely. I stayed away from it, man. You know, I tried out for volleyball in high school.

I actually made the team, but my grades were terrible, so I never got to play. But I was like a heavyset dude, and I tried out and made it. I think it was just kind of like a joke, though. I think the coaches were just messing with me and my friends too when did you get involved in martial arts uh when i was 20 so 2010 so really quick right after high school i started um i started traveling so i used to play in a band i used to play in many bands and play guitar i play guitar i play drums i play keyboard a little bit of everything every christmas my mom would just

know just get me a new instrument and i'd lock myself in my room and teach myself how to play and that's just always how like music was my first love instruments were my first love so you taught yourself yeah i just put on like headphones and i would just match the sounds and then keep restarting the songs over and over again and then if it were like a keyboard song i'd play it like just on the cd player and you know as it evolved and for some reason i can just i can match tunes with whatever instrument it may be. You've always been able to do that? Since kid. Wow.

Yeah. No formal training? Nothing. That's great. Wow. I've tried to take guitar lessons before, but it didn't work for me. My mom was just wasting her money. I was learning, but it was kind of like school for me.

I had a teacher. He told me, okay, this chord and this chord. I was like ah like just let me feel it like I gotta I gotta feel it you know like I can hear it I can I can feel it I'll get it and so I I stopped going but how many people do it like like that I'm not sure I know there's a lot of people that can just kind of play by ear but so I'll like I just love instruments so I'll pick anything up and just start playing it and end up teaching myself how to play drums bass guitar keyboard i played the stand-up bass in uh in middle school um i've got like a little home

production like beat studio at home all that stuff so after high school i started touring and uh that's when like i started getting my heaviest we were eating fast food every single day three times a day, never drank water, soda only, smoking a pack and a half of cigarettes a day, and just on the road traveling. And then by 19, I got up to 305 pounds, 19 years old. I remember one night laying down to go to bed, and I just felt my heart pumping ridiculously. And I was just like, no way. I think I'm going to die.

And like I woke up in a panic. And weird thing is I got up and I went outside for maybe like 10 minutes and I smoked another cigarette. And I was just like, this is the problem. Like I'm coughing up stuff. My heart is going to give out. And I'm only 19 years old you know so around that same week is when I discovered MMA with my brother just like watching Ultimate Fighter on TV and so uh I went on my last tour and I told the guys like hey I'm gonna go train MMA they're like oh you're gonna be a fighter

like you think you know and I was just like I don't know what I'm gonna be but I'm gonna go train and get healthy and they're like okay cool. We'll see you in a couple months. You know what I mean? Like no one really believed that I was going to go and actually train and fight. I told you guys, I've always been like this big, quiet, non-confrontational guy. So, yeah, I went and took my first class Muay Thai. And March 1st, 2010, took my first Muay Thai class. And then after like a month of doing Muay Thai I started to see

progression I started to see like my face was slimming down all this stuff so it gave me motivation to keep going and then um I remember going to a MMA event amateur and I saw really big heavyweight guys going at it so I was like yeah I think I want to do it I want to give it a try and uh so my coach was like okay if you lose 100 pounds I'll like I'll find you a fight and I was like I think I want to do it I want to give it a try and uh so my coach was like okay if you lose 100 pounds I'll like I'll find you a fight and I was like 100 pounds he's like yeah I'll find you a fight if you lose 100 pounds so um I just kept training within 11 months lost 100 pounds and then took my first fight and then it's just been like every fight has been until now because like now I have like more of a drive and a passion for it but all the

way up until then everything kind of happened by coincidence or just like i just i didn't really want to fight but i had a lot of people like oh you're so good like keep doing it and that was the first time in my life i've ever had people supporting me to like really do something that was big and i was a new guy and i was in shape and i can you know girls are noticing me now i'm like all these my whole life changed within a year of of training mma like wow from going to this guy that nobody even paid attention to to just like oh hey how's it going or you know like oh you're so in shape and i was just like oh this is weird it's still weird it's only been nine years eight years

you know so everything's still very new to me i've only my first day stepping on the mat was like you know nine years ago dude that's an amazing story it's crazy that's like a legit success story yeah it's you know is that you what kind of ridiculous ringtone do you have sir what is that Is that you? What kind of ridiculous ringtone do you have, sir? What is that? Sir. I thought I turned it off. What is that? It's just like stock iPhone ringtone.

You ventured into the options. Yeah. Went down in there. Yes, sir. So, yeah, that's kind of how everything started. And then with three or four fights, and then I tried out for the ultimate fighter. So I had like three or four fights and then i tried out for the ultimate fighter so i had like three or four fights in one year being a pro and uh and then the ultimate fighter trials came out and i like tried out for that and like made it on i was like

oh shit so most of my career has been in the ufc wow yeah is that like when you hear about fighters particularly boxers you hear like a really well-managed boxer will get fights to test him, but with a guy that you could beat. And you learn a different thing from each different fighter as you move up the ladder. And way more of them are undefeated when they finally get a shot at either a title or a top contender. But in MMA, you could be fighting the top-level guys within a couple of years of joining. And it could honestly be a couple years prior to that if you're particularly talented where you picked up martial arts. Like Nganou, perfect example. Francis Nganou is like an incredible example because he's really only done MMA for five years.

And he's still right now the scariest guy in that cage. Exactly. When he's throwing bombs away it's like you just you just like go when he knocked out over him that was an un that was an unheard of knockout yeah i sparred with him in like in preparation for that fight and i actually almost got hit with that same punch but yeah we went francis i and i went three rounds um in the cage and then i remember uh forest was there and and and john the head coach of syndicate and uh they were like okay you guys tone it down because we were going at it and i mean it was fun like i like to go hard

yeah but um how often though how often do i like to go hard yeah every now and then yeah every do you do mostly technical yeah so like in thailand right now it's like everyday technical one day sparring or one or two day sparring and when you say sparring mma sparring mma sparring yeah and then the other days are just like technical grappling grappling and technical striking and then you know wrestling and then uh yeah sport on Fridays now when they break it up um do you have someone who makes your schedule for you like for the week do you have all your training routines like what what your schedule set up for morning evening all that do you have that yeah yeah so um advance so they have like so for instance like the gym has a schedule of all the classes

but um the the head MMA George, would help me out. Like, hey, if you're getting ready for a fight, show up to these, these, and these, and I'll help you. Almost like a curriculum. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that actually helped. And the cool thing about it is like everything was in line. So like whatever I worked with him personally in the morning, we'd still be going over and practice and even in the night practice. So getting the same things like, you know, multiple times a day instead of just one time and then you'll get it again later. And when you're training over there, you said you like 50 to 60 professionals.

I've seen so many guys on the mat. Yeah. And I'd say on a very, very low day, 20. Like so many people. So many guys on the mat, yeah. And I'd say on a very, very low day, 20. Like so many people, so many people, guys and girls, man. And how much of your time are you spending striking versus grappling? Do you specialize in one thing or the other? Well, I can train grappling all day and never get bored. And like even if I'm tired, I can still do it.

But then like grappling, I do it a lot of the times because I like it, but it's mandatory and it's my job. So I'm like, okay, I'm going to go to grappling class. But it seems like it's an even balance, but I love to go to striking more because it's just like that's my favorite thing. love to go to striking more because it's just like that's my favorite thing um yeah so one striking class one grappling class one mma class all in one day type of thing so like two hours a piece and then conditioning and running and all that stuff in the middle and that's one whole day yeah jesus yeah well the mma class is more like so there's a class of MMA, one personal going over like my specific things that I like to work on and want to work on. And then maybe whoever's mimicking the opponent. And then in the morning Muay Thai. So for me, it's always great to start the morning off with Muay Thai. thing have coffee do my five six k run train muay thai for two hours eat go do um mma personal

and then do the mma class at the end and then go relax after that routine for me can work every day and it does everything's disciplined like to do the same thing every day is very common in thailand and i think that that's why I was able to put that performance on and use that many kicks because we throw so many in one day. You know what I mean? What's different about the training there? There's not really classes. Like for MMA, there's not much talking.

In Muay Thai, there's no talking. You know, it's like they tell you what to do a little bit, like punch, kick, kick knee teep five times 10 times 20 times you know like it's a lot of repetition and the same thing in the in the mma class george gives us a lot of um time to drill and drill at our own pace and things like that before we go live and i think that that's what's helped me the most is less talking, more drilling. Show me one or two things. We're mixed martial artists.

We're going to create something off of it. It's okay. And just let us drill it. Let us drill it. Walk around, correct if you need to, but I think people need to spend more time drilling on the mat. Go live every now and then just so you can feel what you're at. But the only way you're going to get good is by drilling. Yeah, it's just not as fun. Exactly. It it's training i don't think training should be fun you

know tell a dog to sit a hundred times you got to give him something like you know some type of treats the problem is certain parts of training are fun right which is probably one of the reasons why you like striking exactly it's fun that part for me i can just yeah yeah yeah it's um it's i Yeah Yeah Yeah It's I really believe that psychologists Should study fighters Study high level fighters To try to figure out what makes them tick Because there's all these different versions You're a different version

You the 300 pound guy That decides to lose all this weight And now you're one of the best fighters In the 205 pound division in the UFC It's crazy man I mean that's a wild story it'd be really cool though yeah yeah maybe you'll get one psychology studies on fighters is almost mandatory because there's certain guys that like they're just impenetrable you know there's certain guys

that just they just like khabib is impenetrable yeah you're not the more shit you talk the more he's gonna fuck you up when he gets a hold of you. It's not working, man. It's not getting in there. And then there's certain guys that sometimes they're hot and sometimes they get rattled. It's a crazy endeavor what you guys do. It really is. Yeah, it definitely is, man. I think a documentary or something would be really cool too.

I think a lot of people and the fans need to see kind of a little bit more of the inside the real stuff you know yeah the the real stuff like one of the craziest responses that i've been getting lately is people have hit me up on instagram like i can't believe you're just a normal guy like you're posting songs and and you know like doing all that i'm like yeah i'm I'm human just like everybody else. I think a lot of fans kind of forget that. I think we as fighters sometimes forget too, like, hey, for a little bit you can shut it off and be normal. Yeah. It's, I mean, the balancing act is a strange thing to ignore.

The balancing act that a fighter has to have with their personality, with training and competing and then just being a normal person and the highs and the lows and managing all the stress of an upcoming fight and you're just sort of asked to go it on your own like hey good luck keep your shit together yeah in the face of flying fists and it sucks too because the higher we go up then it's just like it's kind of hard to go anywhere behind, right? It's like we're working to get to the top as fighters. And we want to be known. But like the more – the higher that we go, the more like obligations, media, people want to talk to you, all this stuff.

So your time kind of gets short. I was thinking about it last. I'm like, damn, like getting to the top is going to kind of suck. I was thinking about it last time. Like, damn, like getting to the top is going to kind of suck media, like,

you know, media week or fight week for everybody at the top. They're like press conference, this, that, that. And I'm, I'm the type of guy where I just like relax. So I'll definitely need like a psychologist or something to help me out.

I mean, more hypnotism. Yeah. I would, I don't know how much they do at the ufc performance institute and for as far as mindset training do they do any of that over there not that i've those guys not that i've seen i mean that place is insane have you had a chance to train there at all yeah i did i did two fight camps there oh when i used to live in vegas yeah and it

it's amazing it's crazy but it was like it was like a little too good for me like i started feeling like a little bit spoiled you know what i mean i was like i gotta go run out in the street like i can't run all these nice treadmills man i mean to have a place like that where the company creates this super high level training environment that there's not another gym like it on the planet earth on the planet and they just decided like hey go ahead work out there for free seriously it's pretty oh you want a protein shake? Okay. You want food? Like, whatever you need, just live here.

Yeah. Look, it's a great way to keep guys on track with their weight cuts too, you know? Very informational, that place. Like, they've taught me so much. Yes. You know, just about recovery and what to do afterward. You know, they're investing a lot in just lot in just different programs for us to take home so that we can make sure that our nervous system is good for the next day.

They're putting so much stuff into figuring out how to help the fighters. You know what else tripped out by, man? That's really cool. That underwater treadmill jamming. Isn't it amazing? Did you run on it? No, I didn't. No, you got to do it.

It's sick. I was wearing my clothes. I wasn't going to jump in there, but I was like, what? Look at this. This is crazy, this thing. It no i didn't no you gotta do it it's sick i was i was wearing my clothes i wasn't gonna jump in there but i was like what look at this is crazy this thing it's sick man did you do it yeah i did it a few times what is it is it good for your cardio uh it's it's low impact on the joints right so like it's oh yeah you'll you'll get a real good cardio really real good cardio push on it because there's jets blowing at you and the the treadmills on the bottom so you're trying just to not you're running against the water oh wow and so like depending on how deep you go your arms that's all resistance oh so you can go just waist level and it's a little bit easier but the lower you go the harder it is it's real good cardio did you do the zero gravity i didn't do any of the

things there i just looked at them that's what that me the tour forest griffin gave me the 411 yeah they've done a lot of when's the last time what's the zero gravity it's been a while maybe a year what was the zero gravity so there's a treadmill and you put these pants on and then you zip into this like you zip into it oh i did see that and then you turn it on and it fills up with this air then you can run up to like 10 of your body weight so you it's just like it's another zero gravity like treadmill it's not low impact low impact super low and you can 10 of your body weight so you're just like tippy toes just like oh that's so weird yeah yeah that's really weird yeah they got a lot of cool stuff man well they're at the forefront of all recovery methods and training methods. Nutrition.

Yeah. Did you see what they're doing for us on fight week? What are they doing? So this last fight, they were like, hey, do you want any help? Do you have your meals prepped or anything like that? I was like, no, I don't. So I guess for the people that are fighting within the U.S. for now, they'll prep and make everything for fight week when you're cutting weight.

And they'll make sure. Wow. Like you stay in contact with the guys, Clinton them, and they'll check your weight. And then they'll make meals according to you, like whatever you need, deliver them to your room. That's outstanding. It was the best. And then the recovery afterward, they give you these drinks all like usada approved all that stuff it's like no problems they help they help so much with that last weight cut and uh and rehydration how much do you cut this fight i cut

19 19 pounds and that's a lot usually i usually cut maybe four to seven pounds wow the last couple fights i've just i was just coasted but when i went to thailand there's a lot of sugar and a lot of stuff that i was eating out there is that really what it was yeah when i was in bangkok for a long time and it's just a lot of street food a lot of fried food and stuff and i was just there and I'm like, I'm going to try everything. So once I got to Phuket, they actually have like health food stuff, vegan stuff. They have a lot of tourists there. So especially on the street. So the street that Tiger's on all gyms, it's like five or six CrossFit gyms, maybe 10 restaurants, health food

restaurants, everything. So I was able to stay on track there. So just, I was just back just a few weeks. Yeah. But I still may wait. So that's good. That's a lot of weight to cut though, right? Yeah. You like to cut like about five or six. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No more than eight, like eight is pushing it for me. So what difference do you feel? Uh, the day after I didn't with their rehydration method, I felt amazing. usually if we're cutting that much i'd feel a little bit bloated a little heavy sleepier all that stuff but this when you're talking did you ever do iv or i did do iv yeah when i used to fight in the rfa and um at 185 i used to fight at 185 oh my god yeah that's hilarious how much did you cut? I used to cut from, I'd try to get as close to 200 as possible and then cut the 15.

You must be super skinny at 200 too. Terrible. Terrible. I'm struggling to make 205. Not struggling, but it hurts to make 205 now. So I couldn't even imagine. It sucked. What would you think about if they abandoned weight cutting?

They just opened up more weight classes and abandoned weight cutting i mean i wouldn't mind it i would i would like to see that don't you think it'd be better for the fighters i think it'd be better for the fighters and we'd see some really cool matchups yeah you know what i mean because there's some guys that cut a lot of weight and there's some matchups that would be really cool at different weights too. I think it's one of those dumb things that's existed in the past and we never corrected. I think we should stop it. It's not helping anybody. To lose weight for a fight so that you can be fit and in great shape,

yeah, okay, sure. But how do you go about that? But, I mean, losing weight like losing weight in training, not like massive dehydration for weight cut day and then rehydration the next day for fight day i think it's it's a crazy strain that guys are doing to their kidneys and their bodies i mean many fighters have told me that they're they don't feel like they can take a body shot as well yeah when they cut a lot of weight yeah sometimes the your head my head i remember in the johnny walker fight i had cut excuse me it could have been from

the weight cut but that morning like if i even tapped on my jaw i just felt like my head was just like off like rattly you know like yeah i felt very sensitive do you think that's from the same night i get knocked out i don't know what it was from but i remember feeling that morning when i woke up because usually i usually I'll shake everything off. I'll punch myself in the jaw, all that stuff, just to get ready for the fight. And I remember that morning when I was tapping myself on the jaw, my head just didn't feel right.

Dude, that's not a good feeling. No, but I got it checked after. I didn't have any concussion or anything. Did you have some particularly hard sparring session or something close to that? I don't think close to it during that camp uh like i said i didn't feel it all the way until i didn't have it the only the only time i ever felt it was like after the weight cut so it could have been from that right yeah and i think that morning i actually ended up cutting the last little bit of my weight the morning of weigh-ins too which is not usually like me I usually cut it the night before so you said you like to start your day off with a run um are you doing that every day yeah definitely really

so that's one thing that I learned too is just training every day not learn but it just feels different now I I have to go and train every day when i was in vegas like i gotta drive 30 minutes you know all these things i had a lot of excuses to make up and now with the convenience of how training is now i don't even make up excuses i'm like if i'm tired i still it's two minute walk get your ass to the gym you know right and so yeah every every single day training and then weekends off for sure so you're running every single day then you're training every single day before muay thai it's mandatory you run like the trainers you train unless you run first you show up you run the the first day i showed up uh at at tiger's muay thai class i didn't even have tennis shoes i just showed up with my flip-flops because i was

staying right across the street and i showed up i started wrapping my hands and the trainer he's like are you gonna train and i was like yeah i think so he's like you think so go run and i was like i don't have shoes i only have my flip-flops he's like just pointed like so go run and i had to run like i think it was like eight kilometers in flip-flops before i can even train yeah that's like four miles yeah right somewhere around there five and a half yeah it's like four miles, right? Somewhere around there? Five and a half. Five and a half? Yeah, it's like four miles, something like that. We just had to run, run, run, run, run, run. I asked the girl, I was like, how long do we run for? She's like, usually like five to six kilometers or something like that.

It was like- 5K is like three and a half miles. Yeah. I was just going to say that. I'd say like just cutting it short, 5K. Wow. And in flip-flops. That's ruthless.

And I was like, okay, cool. Yeah, I never forgot my shoes again. I would always show up. How bad did that fuck your feet up? It wasn't too bad, actually. No, because I wasn't wearing shoes a lot anyway. Oh. Just Thailand, sometimes you got to take off your shoes

before you enter the store. So they're hard-assed in their discipline with their wanting you to run first. They're just serious about it. Very serious about it. Yeah, they're just serious about it. They're like, show respect, you know? And when you're running,

are you running with a group of guys? Everybody. Guys, girls, whoever shows up to class. But is it – okay, so when they're running, are they running like organized, like in a group, or are they just – is everybody running a few miles before class every time? The first Muay Thai gym that I trained at, the straight Muay Thai gym in Bangkok, they run as a unit every day, 5 a.m., as a team. They live at the gym. They eat at the straight muay thai gym in bangkok they run as a unit every day 5 a.m wow as a team they live

at the gym they eat at the gym they sleep at the gym they are like they they don't have homes their home is the gym and their job is just fight and eat sleep train fight that's it it's crazy when they even take on the name of the gym yeah exactly yeah and that's a whole different life like that is what made me respect and learn and love Muay Thai so much is how these guys trained and just they lived together everything it was amazing so they run as a group but the other like the other place we all start off but if someone's lapping you and they just want to run fast like it's it's totally fine but before the the class, everybody has to go. Wow.

That's a smart way to do it, man. I mean, if you could really convince them to be conditioned all the time, you have no option. You can't be out of condition if you're going to run five miles every day. No. Five miles and then hitting and kicking pads for five to ten rounds a day, clinching 45 minutes a day, like clinching at after every session, it's like you run knee bag sit-ups, all that stuff. Second,

second session is, um, kick the bag three to five rounds until a trainer picks you up. Like for me, I had to wait for a trainer to actually even like want to hold pads for me if you just show up you'll just be hitting the bag until the trainer was like hey okay i'll hold for you and then once you actually find a trainer that wants to work with you then you kind of whatever their schedule is for you that they'll create it they'll you'll hold they'll hold pads you'll kick the bag you'll do push-ups you'll do sit-ups and then clinch 30 to 45 minutes after and it's the same thing every single day wow and do you ever worry that this might be something that would be monotonous because

you're doing the same way every day or do you think we just concentrate on excellence no because it's also uh like going to the fights and there's so many different styles. So like people are doing the same thing every day, the repetition, but the styles are completely different. You know, like nobody fights like Sanchai, right? He does the same thing everybody else does, but he has his own style. Yeah. You know what I mean? Or some guys will do the same thing, but they don't even like to kick or knee.

They just like to throw elbows. I know plenty of guys like that where they just like – you know that when he goes, he's just throwing elbows all five rounds. This guy is just going to throw knees. So it's just like which tools do you use the best? It's like are you a near? Are you a kicker? Are you an elbow guy?

Are you a left kick? Are you a low kicker? It's kind of like which strikes are your thing? And then you go watch the chaos and these guys are getting split open every night. On the stretchers, they take them stretchers on the ring, man. It's amazing. Wow. It's like not to see someone get hurt,

but just the fact that these guys are all out brawling every night. Every single night there's a fight at the stadium, and Thursday nights are the nights that the higher guys go, and they're packed with people, thousands of people. The the one i went to there was a few thousand people there for the stadium it looked packed and everyone's betting like oh and then when the kicks land they're like oh the energy is crazy wow they never showed up man i'm getting hyped thinking about it back to thailand right now how did san chai figure out how to do muay thai different than anybody oh man he's so interesting with his quick switches of the feet and like even the way he throws kicks he's just got like a little

different flavor to everything i don't think he can help it you know what i mean there's just something about the guy's character it's just like his his fighting is him right you know like he's just he's kind of outgoing like this is a weird funky guy and it makes sense that he fights like that you know what i mean it's not like he's just like serious like stern guy but then goes out there and fights all crazy like he seems like his fighting is definitely an expression of himself he's so good man yeah he's so good i like watching him just warm up. Sneakers on, outside, sweating, throwing elbows and knees and shit. He's a bad motherfucker, man.

And he's not young. No. I think he's in his 40s. Is he? Yeah. Really? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know he was that old.

Can we look how old Sanjay is? 38. 38. Oh. He's getting there. He's getting there. But meanwhile, he's in his prime. Still fighting.

Fucking people up. All the time. Multiple times a month. Multiple times a month. Multiple times a month. Have a fight. Good luck. You know, show his fists and dynamite. His Instagram was awesome, man.

And he's got these great videos of him warming up. And you watch his movement, man. It's like, wow, that guy's, he's something special. It takes a lot of fucking energy to move around the way he does, too. Yeah. I'm sure he still shows up to the gym every single day, too. I'm sure. And he's like holding pads for foreigners and all that stuff. I stopped by Yo gym he wasn't there but i hear like there he is look at that guy motherfucking man right there

he just posted a video the other day wearing this crazy wig go to see if you can find a video of him there it is right there look at this guy. Even how he throws his kick. It's different, right? It's so different. Yeah. Like, he doesn't really, like, turn all of his upper body like a lot of the ones I've seen. Right. He's a volume guy, but he knocks guys out with one shot, too.

Look at that catch. Yeah. He didn't even, like, it's just instinctual, you know? He didn't even think about it. Didn't even flinch. He's so good. Checked. Up. Checked. Up.

Swipe. It's interesting when you think of how many different people are doing it and that this one guy stands out. I love outliers, man. So that's one thing that I learned compared to, like, watching Muay Thai in the States and then going there, the amount of kicks and knees that they're throwing. I'm looking at fighting like, okay, like, when's the next punch going to happen?

These guys throwing kick after kick after kick for five rounds. I was like, okay, I'm definitely not kicking enough, so I got to start kicking. Being in Thailand definitely helped me to learn the importance of kicking. And being in Thailand definitely helped me to learn the importance of kicking. So we were talking about the shoot box style. Rafael Cordero, who is absolutely one of the best Muay Thai striking coaches on the planet. It's funny that he's such a nice guy. And he trained the most murderous crew of angry Brazilians. Rafael Cordero could not be nicer.

They had Anderson Silva. They had Vanderlei. And when Vanderlei Shogun. Rafael Cordero could not be nicer. They had Anderson Silva. They had Vandalee. And when Vandalee Shogun. Look at that. Look at that photo with Rafael Cordero. Oh, my God. Rafael Shogun. Dude, that's a fucking team of assassins.

They've got Pele, everybody. Yes, that's right. Pele, too. They were some hard men. The guy who taught me Muay Thai, Michael Costa. He was from that same group. I really, to this day, do not understand why Muay Thai is not more popular. I've never understood it.

It's so exciting to watch. Yes, it is. If we had a league in America that people understood who the fighters were, got to know them and root for them. You see with boxing, with Terrence Crawford. He's prime right now. He's on top of the world. I want to see a guy like that in Muay Thai, and I think it would be the same thing. I think Americans would jump on board if they understood how exciting it is.

Yeah. You see a good handful of foreigners and Americans in Thailand to go watch Muay Thai, and I thought the same thing. Like, man, they got to get this out here. Let's figure it out. You and me, let's figure it out. What are they missing? What's missing? Dana White has a good point.

He thinks that culturally we won't accept kickboxing after PKA karate from like the 1980s. That's way before my time. I was born in 90. Guys would throw these little kicks. They had to throw like eight kicks around you know and then they would have like a sloppy boxing match some of the time there's some really good guys that fought in there too like real high level guys like benedict orkides fought pka and you know a lot a lot of like really really good strikers but it was

there was nothing compelling about it yeah just wasn't just wasn't something that you wanted to watch all the time. But if you could watch some of the best Muay Thai fights that you've ever seen, and you could watch them on television, just show people on television some crazy wars that you and I have seen from the past, how could you not like that? If you like striking, how could you not like guys were experts in bone smashing? Dude, that's why I Have a lot of love too for like I'm a huge one championship fan me too. I'm a huge one championship. Yeah I like what he's doing. I like how he's mixing all three of them together, too

It's amazing because like you can literally go to a fight and see a good MMA match. Yeah, if you if you like Because you can literally go to a fight and see a good MMA match if you like grappling and striking, obviously. And you can see legit Muay Thai fighters. My friends from the stadiums are fighting in Bangkok on the 10th. So I'm like, really? I can't wait because I really want to get there by the 10th to go see this one championship event in Bangkok. Wow. The guy, one of my friends, Pet Bam pet them. He's a stadium, like, champion. And he's fighting one championship again.

And it's like, it's just sick to see, man. Yeah, I don't think people understand how big it is in Asia either. There's a lot of American fans that are just really, they're missing it. It's like Asia's version of the UFC. It's gigantic, if not bigger. Yeah. Yeah, the numbers are insane. And they got some fucking killers over there. Yes, they do. They got some not bigger. Yeah. Yeah, the numbers are insane. And they got some fucking killers over there.

Yes, they do. They got some legit killers. Yeah. Yeah, that's like that guy, Nasty Yukin, who just knocked out Eddie Alvarez. Yep. He trained Tiger. Dude, that guy's legit. Yeah, I remember.

Did you train with him at all? No, I would like alongside him. I didn't personally train with him. But I remember one day we were doing – we were training, and he was the last one on the mat. And our wrestling coach, Frank, was like – he's like – he said something like, 10 more sprawls and, like, you beat Eddie Alvarez or something. And the guy's just grinding.

Like, he's just digging himself into the mat. It was cool to watch him prepare for that fight. But there's guys like that. It's like, yeah, he trains there all the time, and he beat Eddie Alvarez. That's a big deal. I think it's a big factor over there, too, that they don't cut weight. I think that's a big factor. If you're used to being the bigger fighter all the time,

and then all of a sudden now you're not, now no one's cutting any weight. I mean, they have some sort of a system. Ben Askren was explaining it to me. I don't really remember how it works, but there's some sort of a system where they stop you from weight cutting yeah like they check your hydration check your hydration levels yep you got to be it's the right way to do it he's the right he's correct he's smart it's the right way to do it we should have done it a long time ago in the ufc man i really think that all the weight cut issues all that stuff like ruining cards all that it would all be eliminated, right? Yes.

Ruining cards and even more importantly, I think, causing fighters to fight at less than their full potential. How many fighters got hit when they shouldn't have gotten hit? Because if they were recovered completely, if they didn't have to, not recover completely, but if they didn't have to recover from a weight cut, who knows? Maybe there's shots you ate that you wouldn't have eaten. yeah right especially if you're some guy who's cutting a brutal amount of weight it's entirely possible that you could get hit with something you wouldn't if you didn't have to cut weight and we can fight more often yeah right we can fight more often and the training would be a lot better too because we wouldn't like a lot of fighters spend the last three weeks four weeks of their fight, or their camp, trying to lose weight.

Just trying to lose weight. It's a terrible way to approach it. And that's a whole month of learning and building strength and all that stuff that you could do. So, I don't know. I think it'd be awesome. The only argument for it is that the guys are tough enough to do it and cut a shitload of weight, have this massive size advantage, and sometimes it allows them to win.

And they think they should be able to do it because they're tough enough to cut all that weight yeah i get it i mean it does it's hard to do you have to be a strong person but i just don't think it's good for anybody i don't think it's good for the athletes i don't think it's good for the sport i don't think it's good for anybody it's just an old way it's just an old thing that people are doing so they don't have to fight the bigger people you know it's crazy because i have to answer that question a lot for people who don't like some of my friends are just like oh like they'll hit me up like hey i'm like i can't talk this week like i gotta cut weight like it's not a good time i can't talk how do you how do you lose 20 pounds in a day and why do you do that you know i'm just like right i don't know how to explain it it's

just because that's what we do you know there's not really it's just what i have to do when you see certain fighters get on the scale though like conor mcgregor when he made 145 that's crazy looked like uh like a zombie man like a walking dead character yeah i was like holy shit man he looks like the ice king yeah what's that no the winter king is it what do you call him the the the night king the night king yeah the night king he did look like the night king but did you see him when he fought at uh when he fought nate nate yeah 170 looked great he looked great right look great yeah there's a difference definitely yeah i mean there's wow look at the difference that's insane the night king oh my god he looks happy right there he's just like yeah i just yeah i just had a burger i know what to sleep good and then

what's the math the other one he's like yeah dude he's on death's door right there really only three months apart four months apart no way december 2015 and march 2016 is that right yeah wow wow you know what's crazy too sometimes like weight cutting messes up the mind too because you see yourself so shredded at one point in your life. And then I can get maybe like five pounds. I'm like, ah, man, I'm out of shape. I got to get back in shape. Yeah, you get accustomed to it. You'll never allow yourself to get back to 300 pounds again.

Oh, never. Never. No, no, no. There's none. I can't go down that road, Joe. What a crazy transition, though, to go in a 10-year span from being a guy who's, like, really overweight and worried you're going to die to being an elite UFC fighter. Yeah. Like, life for me is happening now.

Like, this is kind of the beginning of everything for me, you know? It's really cool. It's really cool it's really cool and i'm glad that i found mixed martial arts just because it just it gives me it's a journey man it's not just ufc just like finding mma and diving into different cultures and lifestyles and understandings and sometimes philosophies all this stuff just to understand just to put it all together just to have it all make sense at the end of the day like it's it's been a beautiful thing i've been able to meet a lot of people go a lot of places like i'm very thankful and i'm very just like like i'm okay with life you know

it's very good to hear man that's a cool thing to hear i love hearing that you're you're cool with life yeah you're um you're on a great path man it's uh it's also what's inspiring about it for other people is your story of being at a place where you weren't like that before and your story of being overweight and smoking cigarettes and feeling like shit and then now you're like for so many people out there that gives people hope. Yeah. That gives them a thought like maybe if I just figure this out, I actually can. Maybe life doesn't suck. Maybe it just sucks the way I'm living.

Maybe if I could just figure out this path in a positive direction, I can change everything. I could be a happy, I could be like you right now. What was the exact quote? I'm happy with life. You're happy with life? I'm happy with life. Yeah. You're cool with life. You're happy with life? I'm happy with life. Yeah, you're cool with life. You're happy with life.

That is a great quote. Most people don't get to that spot. And the crazy thing is, too, I didn't have this dream to be in the UFC. I made a choice to just go get healthy. Yeah, I do. Just a short step in the right direction. What propelled you to take the first fight fight if you were just trying to get healthy? A lot of encouragement and the first time really hearing people being good at something.

I was surrounded by fighters and guys who believed in me and who cared and wanted to see me get better and tougher. And I was getting my ass kicked every day, and that was something that I wasn't used to. Just being in that environment, at that time learning, I had a very strong team. I started at Vanderlei School when he was still fighting. So a lot of the guys, it was like shoot-the-box style. It's like everyone's getting knocked out. Every training somebody gets knocked out. It's like very hard.

And that was new for me to get in things like that. You were doing that in Vegas. Oh, yeah, man. I remember helping him get ready for the – either it was like Brian Sander, Chris Lieben, and throwing full-on elbows in the cage no pad like we're going at it like my jaw was dislocated everything but it was just like what we learned was just always fight in brazilian they pull hard every day wow every day pull hard

pull hard yeah think about that um it definitely made me tough in the beginning. Now I realize that, like, I've only been doing this a short time, and I already feel, like, aches and pains and stuff, and I don't want it to be like that when I'm older. So I'm a lot more smart about my training. Do you think it was a critical aspect of your success, though, to have gone through the fire like that? I needed that.

Because you were just a different guy. I needed to know what I was made of. Right. Being a guy who's overweight, insecure, all these things, never going on hikes. My dad passed away when I was younger, like very young, and so I never had my dad to encourage me to go throw a ball or anything, play sports or be a man, be a boy, be a, you know, just be.

I was always like kind of sheltered by my mom. And she was more like protective, like, ah, don't go do that. And then she finally learned to just like set me free. But I needed to know what I was made of in in the realm of of men fighting whatever it took blood tears sweat had the same thing they say like i i didn't know what that was like i never got a taste of it so going through it in a real way of like actually getting my ass beat and having to find my way out of it can't run from it and still like it's people that cared about me too it was like it was just a great thing to have and it now i enjoy it i enjoy a really good hard fight

you know something about it that's well you're you you're enjoying your progress too your change of who you are as a person you're strengthening how far into your training was were you like 100 all-in committed like that uh i think it was after my loss to tyson pedro which was my second fight in the ufc um before everything was still kind of very fun in games and i was like oh i get to travel go to austral Australia fight in Australia so it was a big shock to be in the UFC especially not even expecting to be there and within just a few years so uh after losing that fight is when I met my friend and at the time my strength and conditioning coach Lorenzo and he had been through um like pararescue school and things like that so he helped me to

just develop this mentality of like how far will your mind take you how big is your will and when training with him and doing kind of like pararescue survival training for conditioning that that was uh that was a point where i started to like say like okay i'm gonna take this full on i know i can fight hard but now i know how far my will can go in the face of the elements and everything so like putting those two together going after it and then the fight i took after that was daniel jolly and then i i ended that in the first round with a knee and then i fought paul craig in scotland and i had the same mentality like i'm going forward i'm getting better i'm gonna grow stronger better harder like everything

and uh then the the fight to the polish guy uh michael alexey junk have you seen him lately he's been he's been uh he just beat like john volante and i forgot oh that's right yeah it was a body shot i lost it or i lost to him but then it got turned to a no contest so um after that was a go-kart sake fight so it's been i'd say maybe three years no contest did he get turned into no contest? Did he test positive? Yeah, I tested positive. But he was also a last minute fight. I always fuck his name up. Michael Oleksijuk. Yeah, it's a rough one.

At the weigh-ins, I always butcher it. Terrible. That's some of those fucking names. Michael Oleksijuk. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. terrible that's some of those fucking names yeah yeah so it's been like three or four years man

and how many fights you have professionally uh dang what's my record eight and three eight three and one that's funny

that you don't really know your record I I don't remember eight three and one I think it's eight three and one wow yeah it's amazing three and one wow yeah it's amazing that you've been fighting for a relatively short period of time

and have uh achieved some pretty fucking spectacular results man do you have anybody in your past that was into martial arts do you uh is it in the family yeah my brothers my brothers were both like just athletes in school and they were like they were always getting in like fights and stuff at school like i said i was non-confrontational so that was like they were the biggest fighters to me growing up are they stunned that you're a fighter now no um my other brother is actually a fighter too he fought for like the world series uh world series of fighting 125 belt and and the contender series things like that he's still fighting still training and then my oldest brother he uh he doesn't fight he used to

play like college football and stuff but yeah so i got one brother so it's in the family a little bit at least a little bit what do you think about the the world series of fighting that which became the professional fighting league yeah and they're giving away a million dollars to everybody who wins whatever their respected weight classes right yeah and then you fight two times one night yeah yeah it sounds kind of cool but i don't know two times in one night i don't like two times in one night sucks but i don't know if they get paid to show up and then or it's like you just fight and then hopefully you get that meal i don't want to see a guy who goes through a three-round war fight a guy who knocked guy out in 10 seconds yeah

because that can happen it does happen it just seems it seems so unfair did you see uh i thought vinnie mogulash was gonna take it that last i did too because i remember seeing it live he's really coming to his own his striking is caught up with a lot of his grappling oh yeah and he's fantastic very dangerous i've never seen a guy that big, that flexible. He can do everything when it comes to jiu-jitsu. Did you ever see one of these flying armbar, Pei De Pano? Nope. It's crazy.

Who the fuck does that? Nope. I was at that match, the Metamorris. I think it was, was it Metamorris when he grappled Keenan? Was that Metamorris? Like a few years back, maybe like four or five years. Yeah. It could have been Metamorris or EBI. I forget all the Metamorris matchups. They had maybe like four or five years yeah it could have been metamoros or ebi i forget all the metamoros matchups they had some good ones but i forget

all the matchups yeah those are good events huh yes yeah more huh i wish there was more of those man i mean i'm happy eddie bravo's sort of taking over that space with the ebi and uh combat jujitsu now have you seen that slaps right yeah what do you think it's so sick man it's so sick it's a great idea right it's nice it's a great idea sometimes like you might be holding on but that slap that might cause a guy to let go of something changes the game there's things aren't available anymore you can't just allow yourself it's just too hard you could somebody like somebody stop somebody wagner rocha. Got on top and mounted him and just blasted him with palms to the head. Yeah, it was pretty rough, man. It's like when you – it's almost like MMA.

Look at that. I mean, you can do ground and pound. And we learned from Boss Rootin way back in the Pancrase days. Do you remember those days? Yeah. Boss Rootin figured out how to pull his hand back way further than other people. And Boss Rootin would smash guys with palm strikes he would throw him like uppercuts and hooks like he wasn't just like slapping you yeah

this is a really high level jiu-jitsu too with smacks look at oh my oh yeah and you know that guy's not used to getting slapped no not by a guy with a nasty guard like wagner rocha oh yeah he wants to tap right there oh my goodness yeah can you tap from the slap yeah you can tap oh yeah he's getting beat up the referee's gonna stop it mike veltron seen enough see once he starts dropping those palms down yeah it's a bat forehead it's a reality check you know it's a reality check about how dangerous this position is you can't really just sit and let a guy mount you you have to do something desperate to get out of that but in jujitsu if the guy's just mounting you you can kind of chill out yeah you're chilling out figuring out how to escape a leg or something not that shit yeah

combat jujitsu you got to get the fuck out of there. That's a terrible place to be. Yeah, same thing with MMA, right? Being mounted sucks, especially when you're tired. Well, the difference between MMA grappling and regular grappling, too, used to always be one of the big ones, at least I should say, was leg locks. They thought you really couldn't get away with leg locks as much in MMA because as you're going for the legs, you have two arms committed committed to the leg someone's just going to punch you in the face

and you don't have defense for it but now you're seeing when guys like iminari burst on the scene and started ripping guys knees apart you see how effective that is and then paul harris are you a leg locker people no no you don't like leg loss scared of it it's they're scary huh yeah i've had so i've had three knee operations and two reconstructions. But do you like to watch? Oh, yeah. Yeah, like John Donahue? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dude, he's so interesting. Gordon Ryan. Yeah. Yeah, I remember just kind of looking into a little bit of those. Eddie Cummings. Yeah, those guys are savages. Gary Tonin. They're fucking people's legs up. And then Craig Jones and all these other guys

that are coming from all over the world that are leg lock specialists now they all have these complex leg lock systems now yeah it's a totally different thing

it scares the shit you fuck up you go zig when you should have zagged like when Ryan Hall fought BJ Penn yeah right and he caught him in that

I was like no no not that way yeah he just tried to get out he tried to get out and Ryan Hall just locked it up. I just imagine the feeling right now. I always tap early.

Well, once that stuff gets chewed up inside there, that's the problem. I mean, some people can just take it, but once you start ripping meniscus apart and cartilage apart, once that stuff starts happening, ligaments start getting stretched out and rip a little bit, and they're always going to be wiggly. I mean even gordon rye just ripped his fucking leg apart did he really yeah yeah he just had surgery um i think he did it in an actual grappling match so i think his foot his leg moved weird and it just it popped his his knee apart but the guy had a hold on it i

don't think so no no i think it was in a scramble i think it came apart in a scramble um but there's a lot of those leg lock experts right now that scare the shit out and everything came from dean lister which is crazy dean lister do you know the story no john donahue was talking to dean lister and uh dean lister was talking about leg locks and john donahue said something inquired about why you do leg locks and he goes why would you ignore 50 of the body and john donahar being a fucking crazy wizard that he is like why would you why would you it's all these memes there's a fucking hilarious meme of john donahar in bed next to a woman and it says why would you ignore 40 50 of the body oh man yeah and there's other guys yeah well donna is a guy who understands things like he he sees

them on a very complex level like he understands all the various possible exchanges and what's the best way to mitigate like stop the defense push the offense control the situation what is what is the ultimate control position i have to get to do i have have to get on the inside? Do I grab it this way? And then once they started really experimenting and putting it together and putting it into a system, and you see how these guys who have only been doing Jiu Jitsu for a few years, like Nicky Ryan

and Gordon Ryan, they start tapping all these really legit guys. They're like, what the fuck is happening? What are they doing over there? He's got a Kimura system, everything, huh? I think that helps a lot, just when it comes to training learning things in systems you know what i mean i think 10th planet has like their own system right oh for sure and it helps it helps you go to another state like it's the same yeah same system right yeah all systems help man you know i mean and then fighters devise their own system really often, have their own entries and their own ways of defending things.

But the leg lock game was so unexpected because I always thought they were a good technique if you can get it, but it's not that high percentage in MMA. That was kind of how I felt. You didn't see too many of them. I don't know why. I think we had a few guys that were really good in the early days like Oleg Taktarov

and you know some other guys were really good but we didn't have the level that you have like a Paul Harris yeah

diving on things transitioning from one thing to the next and then locking you up in a position where you better tap quick because if you don't you're going to be screaming

do you think a lot of the times it's those guys like the other guys fault or does he really just hold too long he definitely holds too long yeah he has there's one fight from brazil where it's crazy he's not letting go he's just holding on to something i forget what it was but he was not letting go and they were trying to separate him and he was still hanging on to it i think he came from a really

really bad childhood okay and he's talked about it in depth about growing up on a farm and being forced to eat pig slop was pig slop when he was a little boy. No way. That cut that he has on his chest, that big scar. He sealed that up with glue. Yeah, like crazy shit. Yeah. Yeah.

Actually, I've met him before a few times like through some friends, and he seems like a cool guy. Yeah, he does. Genuine. I just think when he's in competition, man, he just doesn't want to let it go. Yeah. And they make him let it go, and he tried, even though he knew that they were going to get mad at him if he didn't let go, still didn't quite let go. Yeah. And they're like, get the fuck out of here.

They kicked him out of the UFC, the first guy ever to get kicked out of the UFC for holding on to submissions. Oh, he got kicked out? Yeah. Oh, okay. Do you know who he held it against? I don't know, but I want to make sure that that's true. I think it is. That Husamar Paul Harris was the first guy to ever get kicked out of the UFC.

And I think the last one they got kicked out for was like any normal person wouldn't even have gotten in trouble for that one. Yeah. It was like normal. It was like maybe a little bit too long, but it was on that borderline edge. But because it was him, people were like, enough. You know? Is that what it was? It wasn't in the UFC,

but it was a controversial submission victory over Jake Shields at World Series of Fighting. Ah, yeah, Jake Shields, I think. Yeah, but I think he did that too, but that was a Kimura. Yeah, that's right. But I think. Yeah, but I think he did that too, but that was a Kimura. Yeah, that's right. But I think before that, he got kicked out of the UFC. Released in 2013.

Oh, Mike Pierce had a referee intervened. Referee intervened. That's right. Heel hook. Yep. So that's what it was. Yeah. Okay.

That's what it was. He was released after holding onto a heel hook of Mike Pierce in 2013. Yeah. But look, man. That guy was particularly scary when he fought because he was so strong and his body was so well designed for heel hooks. Oh, right. He just could grab a hold of you and rip your shit apart, man.

Look at that. Look at the size of him. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Bro. Look at this. Now, look what he does here. See, he grabs a hold of it. Oh, yeah, man. Look at that. Look at the size of him. Oh, my God. Look at this. Now, look what he does here. See, he grabs a hold of it.

Mike Pierce is fucked. He's tapping. He's tapping. He's tapping. He's tapping. He's still holding. He's still holding. But that's all in slow motion.

But it looked to me like he was still ripping the knee apart, even though he knew that the guy tapped. Yeah, yeah. He had it. He knew he had it. He's just punishing that guy. You know, he makes it scarier for other people, and he's probably used to doing it, you know?

He had this psychological block. They all say that he's, like, a really, really nice guy. Yeah. You just become that guy that nobody wants to fight. Fucking animal, man. You can't make no money. But I think in the Jake Shields fight, there was other shit that was happening, too.

I think there was eye pokes. I'm pretty sure. Just a dirty fight. what do you hear yeah what are we hearing is something bleeding through into our microphones i've heard this before i've been trying to catch what it was ghost bro i don't know what it's from it's some interference i see dead people this is like um so i don't know if the people can mark can the people hear it I was not was this what is it what is it the fire up the fight we just debunked ghost bro which fight was it that you pulled up

that fight that took, you know. Yeah. Oh, when he ripped that guy's knee apart. Yeah. Yeah. He was the first guy to be like super scary and an elite modern level with heel hooks. Where did he start off? Do you know what promotion?

Well, he's a Minotauro guy. Okay. Yeah, he is a Minotauro guy. So he came out of Brazil. Probably Cage Warriors? I don't know, man. I don't know what he was fighting in in Brazil. I don't remember seeing him. Cage Warriors is the UK know man I don't know Where What he was Fighting in in Brazil I don't remember seeing

Cage Warriors is the UK Is it Yeah That's where Anderson came Well Anderson When he made the jump From Pride He did Cage Warriors

For a while And then came over To the UFC And I think That's when he started Working with The Nogueros When he started

Fighting in Cage Fighters Oh so he fought In a bunch of Fury FCs Fury Fought in a bunch of stuff. Storm Samurai 12. Dun, dun, dun. Floripa Fudge.

Storm Samurai 12. I want a t-shirt for Storm Samurai 12. Damn. Throwback. Yeah. 2006. Real throwback. Yeah.

He had a great... Fury, Fury high voltage. It goes to show you how good Gary Tonin is as a submission grappler too because they had a great submission grappling match. Go back to his record there because I think that was listed there. I think it turned out in a draw, and Gary Tonin is so much smaller than him. Draw, yeah, Gary Tonin. Oh, yeah, that was recent.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Was that really 2016? I think it was. Because I remember – no, that was Craig Jones. Okay. 2018 was Craig Jones. Yeah, because I remember someone was posting pictures about how he looks now.

He's got a fade and this big mustache now, and he's all jacked up again. He looks like he's 1,000 pounds. Yeah, for sure. He looks like he's running through walls. Yeah. Is he fighting MMA anymore, or is he just doing grappling? I think he might just be doing grappling. I haven't heard any MMA news.

There's something extra scary about a guy who'll fuck your knee up. Yeah. You know? What's up? Look at the size of him now. Look at that. Whoa, son. He's with Hickey Monstro.

Oh, son. Look at that arm. I do not want to get my heel caught in that armpit yeah look at those that picture above where he's screaming look at that picture like what in the fuck man look at craig jones just chilling that is a body designed to rip your legs apart do you know the hill hook game uh not enough to really play it but um spent a little bit of time picking picking the brains of people who are good them yeah i like it i enjoy it yeah i think i can i think i could actually get pretty good at it it's like the basics of it seems pretty simple

it's just a matter of like getting comfortable there because i feel like my knees are just i don't want to risk it you know what i mean oh let's play this game a little bit yeah no but if i find a partner that's not an asshole just like really wants to like learn together or whatever then i'll i'll do it i'll go after it do you ever see yourself doing jiu-jitsu matches or anything like that yeah i've only done maybe three in my life. Yeah? Yeah, I did one. My last jiu-jitsu competition was probably two years ago, two and a half years ago.

Naga. It was random, just like a random, like, oh, okay, I'll do naga today. Well, there are some MMA fighters that are at a high enough level of grappling that they can compete against really elite grapplers in jiu-jitsu matches you know like um chad mendez remember he had that um that match with um jeff fuck why am i blanking on his name not jeff glover jeff glover really yeah i didn't know that yeah i think he choked him out. Chad Mendes choked out Jeff Glover. I think he took his back and tapped him.

Yeah. Oh, wow. I think they were using the Eddie Bravo invitational rules. Make sure that's true. Ah. Which you start on someone's back in overtime. You go to a certain distance Is that Chael Sonnen's

It is It's Chael Sonnen's organization In which case I'm pretty sure They use the EBI rules So he got his back Through sort of One of those

Overtime positions But he still tapped him And the other one is Uriah Faber Uriah Faber is pretty fucking elite Pretty fucking elite. Pretty fucking elite. Jeff Glover is an animal. Oh, my God.

I love that guy. Super, super technical. You know, and very dangerous. And relaxed, right? Big time stoner. Yeah. So they must have set him up on his back. This doesn't show it.

It just shows him have the back. Man, that's a hell of a fucking renegade right there. That works all day on everybody, even a Jeff Glover. Wow. And that's why jiu-jitsu works. You know, if you're a lead, it'll work. Save your ass. Yeah. Three by overtime submission.

So we're correct. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a few guys, but it's really hard to be the master of everything right yeah for sure so for you is there a balance where you're like am i spending enough time grappling am i spending enough time striking do you do you ever like wonder what the correct formula is or I have wondered and I always wonder but I can't like so a long time ago maybe like a few years ago Anderson told me like listen just you need jiu-jitsu like you need it and he's like it saved my life I love to strike too but

when I learned jiu-jitsu it changed my life so you need to learn it put on a gi let's roll like you're right there in the living room you know and i was just like okay so one of the things that i learned from him is just he's like learn the basic stuff like learn the basic stuff get really good at it. And then, like, use it to save yourself. And you'll end up growing. He's like, just keep training jiu-jitsu. You don't need this whole crazy secret system at the moment. Just make sure that you're training jiu-jitsu and continue to learn jiu-jitsu.

You know, like, so that's kind of my takeaway from the conversation. So I just make sure that when I'm training, at least I'm doing jujitsu. You know, like, I focus on it, make sure that I'm getting better, make sure that I'm going with guys that are way better than me. So I'm always getting my ass kicked, but at least I'm always going with guys that are better than me all the time. And, like, I enjoy it, but I'm a striker that's it like i enjoy it i know that i need it it's my job i know that it can get dangerous if i go against you know if i go

against a guy who's high level jiu-jitsu i know that i i understand that and i'm very aware of it every time that i train and so i make sure that i do my job and I go to jiu-jitsu class but I'm a striker and I'm always going to be focused on that's always going to be what like my go-to anybody whether it's a striker or grappler I don't care I'm going to train striking and I'm going to train jiu-jitsu too but I'm going to my striking always do you think that that is like you're letting everybody know are you trying to trick people and then next next fight you're gonna shoot on folks i don't need to shoot i'll shoot if i need to like if i'm getting my ass kicked and i need to take a desperation shot but you would rather just let them know that you're coming out striking because one of the things about i i

believe you do and you're very good at it But one of the things that's interesting about real high-level MMA, when you look at the guys who have been legendarily successful, like George St. Pierre or Mighty Mouse, two great examples, one of the things is you never knew what the fuck they were going to do to you. And that overloading the mind with possibilities is a part of their success. It's like how much of a part? It's a good question. Do you think that there's an argument for using the skills that you have, which are quite spectacular, with that sort of style?

Sort of style that incorporates way more takedowns, way more takedown attempts, way more feints, just different combinations of things so you never know what the fuck is happening at any given time. Or do you think that it's better to just be the best striker you can and that'll be enough you stop those takedowns that'll be enough for me for you or just in general for you for you um i think for me it would be the best to just be the best striker just because you enjoy it that much more. I enjoy it that much more.

You know, I think, yeah, I enjoy that much more. I still have a lot to learn, a lot to grow, so it's always going to get better. I don't think that it's going to get bad. I'm still learning a lot, especially what you guys got to see a few weeks ago. That's only the beginning. Everything even before that was like non-existent compared to like the type of training that I've been doing.

So I'm like, I'm really excited. So I'm like, yeah, Muay Thai is a lot more than just punch kicks and elbows, you know. And that's all the striking. It's a mind game. So you're just so infatuated by it right now. Yeah. You just want to focus on 100 yeah like there's guys like uh think about like michael vinden page right like before he

fought like paul daly i'm sure that guy trains a lot of grappling as well and it shows like if he gets in positions like he's knocked out guys from weird you know weird positions but when people watch him fight they want to see like – they trust in his stand-up. They're like, oh, this guy's going to do some crazy stuff. Yeah. And I kind of want to be able to do the same thing. Not crazy, like, you know, whirly stuff. But when people watch me fight, they know what to expect.

And that's just like bulletproof striking, you know? Yeah, that fight was uh very unexpected the way paul daly decided to take him down i was like i was pretty stunned yeah i didn't think we were gonna see that i mean paul daly's so dangerous his fucking left hook is one of the best in all the business his left hand period anyway throws it both of them knew what they were going up against though like yep even behind the shit talk they knew like yeah it was a tough fight for both of them it was but it was interesting to me watching page use his distance and that crazy karate point style and that you know he had to he had to really look out for that stuff i mean he had a he had to make sure that he wasn't getting dinged by that stuff.

Yeah. When he's coming in with a, like his venom throws all this wild stuff. Yeah. Like almost like a fencer, like dives in on you and pops you. And you could tell Paul Daly was like really having a hard time like finding that range. Yeah. It's harder to fight against guys that are long and know how to use their body, like athletically. Is he fighting Douglas Lima next?

Is that what's happening over in Bellator? I remember seeing that Douglas Lima had a fight, but I don't remember who the opponent was. Who's Michael Venom Page fighting? Find out that. He's spectacular, though, man. Right? The knee that he landed on Cyborg was holy shit. He caved the man's head

in skull we've never seen that we've never seen x-rays were just insane ah like you got hit with a meteor imagine the pain oh imagine man and he was saying i'll be fighting like four months he's like i'll be fighting again in four months and they were like bro yeah i met that guy in brazil it's tough man yeah he's tough he's been around. That's why when you see a guy like that cover his face and then fall down like that. Oh, it is. Chandler versus Pitbull. Lima versus MVP. That's it.

Douglas Lima's no joke. May 11th. He's no joke. That's a dangerous man, Lima. Yeah, I'm tuning in. He's a fucking enormous welterweight, too. Lima, he's a big fella. I've never seen him in person.

He's a big frame fella for 170. Woo! Cuts a lot of weight, but he's so powerful when he gets in there. Dangerous fucking striker. Lima, he's for real. That, to me, is as interesting, if not more interesting, than the Paul Daly fight. I want to see what happens. Lima's a little different, man.

He's not going to trash talk a lot. He knows he's a dangerous guy. So does Michael. It's going to be a good one. It's a real good one. I He's not going to trash talk a lot. He knows he's a dangerous guy. So does Michael. It's going to be a good one. It's a real good one. I'm tuning in for sure. Yeah, well, fights like that really legitimize Bellator because these are fights that they could easily be a main event in the UFC,

talent-wise, unquestionably. That fight, oof. Venom Page, he's a real fucking hard pill to swallow, man. Figure that guy out. Who the fuck can you bring in a train that can move like him? No one. You can try, but you're not. He doesn't even know how he's going to move.

I think that guy just puts on music and just whatever happens, happens. Yeah, that's why this fight is so interesting because Lima is way more, has just a rock a rock solid traditional stance you know he moves real well devastating power that's going to be a really good fight where does Lima train do you know it's a good question where's Douglas Lima train um Jamie's gonna find that out for us yeah yeah I'm very happy that there's a bunch of good organizations like ONE and, you know, like the PFL now and Bellator. It's great that fighters have options.

Super good. Yeah. A lot of times, too, like I like to just watch whatever's going on. You never know who you're going to come across. Where is that? Where is that? American top team somewhere. Is it? Dude, that's American top team somewhere. Is it?

Dude, that's terrifying. Nasty combinations, man. He's got ruthless leg kicks too, man. ATT where? Which one? There's a bunch of those, right? There's a bunch of American top teams. He might be ATT Florida.

I don't know. Is he? It didn't look like the Florida one, but ATT. How many ATTs are there? I have no idea. Is there a bunch? I should know that. I think I've only heard of maybe two or three.

This is a training in Phuket Fight Club in, I guess, Thailand. Oh, really? In this article right here that just came out yesterday. Phuket Fight Club. Maybe you saw your fight. It's like, fuck it. I'm going to Thailand too. Bring everybody.

Everybody come. Joe, when are you coming? A Phuket Fight Club, huh? Wow. He says he's been a lot of places recently for this fight. He says, honestly, nowadays my life is a camp, Lima stated. It's been like six or seven months and I haven't stopped trying to improve. For me, this is a lifestyle.

Yeah, it's... The only thing that really bothers me, the only thing that bothers me is that it's difficult to get a champion to fight a champion. Like a champion from the UFC to fight a champion from one or to fight a champion. What's up with that? I think that would be good for everybody. That'd be so

sick. Yeah, it'd be good for... We should find out who the fuck... who's running shit. Exactly. We'll find out how to make that happen. Or how also, how UFC fighters can do like Muay Thai fights on the side. Sure. I would love that.

That would be hard for them to do though, because you'd have to justify it. Like what if they got hurt and they couldn't fight in a card and then the UFC like loses an asset. You know, they would think of it in terms of and then the ufc like loses an asset you know they would think of it in terms of like a possible main event like player yeah like if there's a guy who's uh top of the food chain dude and he says i want to take one muay thai fight and he tears his

mcl and then six months later still not ready to fight but they should do it like if you're not like if you're the top 15 you can't do it Yeah that's not a bad idea But if you're not Like if you're not even ranked Then you can Go ahead go crazy Yeah Do it one more time

It's gonna be a while before They'll let you do a jiu jitsu tournament though right Jiu jitsu's fine Yeah Jiu jitsu's fine That's fucking dangerous too though Yeah Yeah

You can go against a guy like Paul Harris Yeah Yeah but I think it'd be cool man Yeah but I think it'd be cool man Schaub fought the other cyborg Which one? Brazil Ricardo Abreu Oh that guy That guy um yeah but i think it'd be cool man shop fought uh the other cyborg um brazil uh ricardo abru oh that guy that guy yeah he's he was one of my jujitsu trainers uh at vanderlust yeah he's a beast yeah he's a big man yeah and the shop just basically kept him away just pushed him away from

him yeah yeah he didn't want to get his legs ripped apart. I think I remember that. That might have been the time where Schaub was over at Black House. I think he was going to go do that. Well, his point of view was like, look, I have to fight. I'm not going to get my leg torn apart. Take me down. Do something. You're not even doing anything.

It's not worth it. And then later, he did sit in his guard, but he couldn't do anything to him. He was mostly defensive. He basically shut his jiu-jitsu down, though. I mean, he really did do that, if you really stop and think about it. I mean, Cyborg wanted to do something, and he stalled him out. It's not a fun thing to watch, and it's not good if you're Cyborg. Yeah.

But if a guy could stall you out, like that's a weird, in a grappling situation, that's a weird situation. Someone just defenses you, just pushes you off, off never attacks just keeps pushing you off yeah what do you do what do you do yeah i mean and how much of your jujitsu is based on someone that's willing to engage that's a problem with you see a big problem when guys go to the ground oftentimes you'll see them almost not even securing a position just thinking this position will maintain this way because it isn't training all the time because guys are just lying on top of you and you're in your guard instead of

just jumping out of your guard going knee to belly and smashing you in the face exactly you think you can catch a little break because you do all the time in training you really see that with jiu-jitsu players sometimes you They forget. They have to hold on, especially guys that are used to training with the gi and then in an MMA fight, and the guy's on top of them, and they think they're trying to set up an armbar

or something like that, and that people are just like, nope, I'm just going to get out of here. Just chilling. I'm going to get out of the spot. Do you still train in gi? Yeah. Yeah?

Yeah. Where do you train? John Jock. Oh, okay. The last time I did it was two weeks ago, three weeks ago. Still training Gi? Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Where do you train? John Jock Machado. Oh, okay. Yeah. The last time I did it was two weeks ago, three weeks ago. It might have been more.

Me and Russell Peters. Okay. We've done it a couple of times. We did it in Malibu, too. He's a good dude, man. John Jock Machado is awesome. Yeah, I heard good things about him. He's awesome.

Couldn't be a nicer person. And just really, really technical. Really good at breaking things down really good at explaining things the big gym it's a good size you know he'll get like 60 people there in a noon class sometimes so it gets packed yeah yeah is it in the heart of the city or what no it's in tarzana oh yeah there's a bunch of machado gyms still though I think I think they have one in Redondo hey it's me and Russell yeah um but uh he's just got this little just perfect basics perfect event I mean everything he does he's always in the perfect position his defense is always perfect when you roll with a guy like that it's like wow so

many levels to this thing yeah It just lets you know. There's just level after level. He's never in danger, ever. Never. He's always laughing. Oh, Joe Hogan. Joe Hogan. Joe Hogan.

You're trying to get him out, Joe Hogan. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You talk to that guy? Yeah, sure. Hassan? Yeah, he's pretty cool. He's hilarious, man.

That character is one of the most weird, obscure. Think about it, that it's a character that he developed that's a fake Brazilian multiple-time world champion. But the dude who plays it, he's legit. He's a normal guy, right? I'm sure with Hassan. He's one of Eddie's black belts. I think he got his black belt.

I'm pretty sure he did. He's a really good grappler, man. Really? Yeah, but he pretends to be this guy not to lauranja yeah i remember i i met him one time at ebi and he wouldn't come out of character yeah that was him he fucking gave me a hard time about james brown or something i think i forgot it was oh weed smoking weed but he's my friend i've been friends with him for a long time he's a great great guy in real life that's not that's a character yeah it's just it's he's so committed to this character he's been friend. I've been friends with him for a long time. He's a great guy in real life. That's cool. That's a character. He's so committed to this character.

He's been doing this character for like 10 fucking years, man. Does he do it just like in public? Oh, he'll fuck around with you in public. He'll bust out the character. He's always on. It's got to be fun, though. You've got to have a character. Yeah, but some people got really mad at him, though.

Like Nate Diaz got legitimately mad at him. Was that at the booth? Yes. Like the OTF booth? Yeah, something like that yeah something like that yeah something i think i saw the video they got and uh you know nate was like get the fuck out of here bitch and he was like oh hey i'm just fucking around this is what in the hell bro is that his ig right there yeah you have to turn away because the girl's butt well not necessarily but he does have a couple of things on there. He's got a lot of butts on there. His character is always hilarious.

His character hates child support and is always attracted to butts. Child support. I mean, it's a crazy character, man. It seems like something that someone would have on a television show or something. It's ours. It's only for MMA people and j Jiu Jitsu people know about it exactly the ones that get it

you go try to hit the streets with that joke they'll be like what are you saying I'm almost positive he's a black belt he's a very legit martial artist that's pretty cool

his dad was a karate instructor too he's a bad motherfucker he's a real martial artist it's fun that character is just so funny yeah I gotta meet him we can arrange that

that's cool shit so what is next for you after this past fight um what do they do do they do they give you some time to recover and then hit you with some options does your management contact the ufc how does it work uh yeah it could be management contacting them or just ufc reaching out just to see when i'll be ready um but since the fight like i just took a little bit of time off to see the family it's been a while since i've seen them did they ever offer you like a short notice fight uh i've gotten offered a short notice fight before i got offered that a mile a long time ago i got offered that gustafson fight it was like a long shot. I didn't think I was going to get it, but I was down.

I was like, yeah, I'll take it. And it was like, I think, 10 days notice, seven days notice at the one in L.A. But it didn't happen. And then I offered to be the replacement for the fight in Sao Paulo that Eric Anders stepped in for. Against Tiago? It was either going to be against him or manua who was the first who was supposed to fight first tiago he was like someone pulled

out of that card i'm not sure of that fight yeah someone pulled out of it and then they offered me since i was already in brazil but um i think they needed a brazilian to fill the card so um i couldn't do it. So, yeah, there's been times that I've been willing to step in short notice. But for now, I'm like, if what I've learned in four months has been able to get me this far, like in my last fight, then I'm going to go back and just get back to training so I can be ready when they call me again. So what do you anticipate?

How many times would you like to fight a year? I want to fight at least two more times this year yeah so i've i've got to learn what works for me just based off the time put into this camp and kind of this new system that i can start to develop so now just get back start training, and then get into a fight camp. And typically what do you like? Do you like eight weeks, 12 weeks? What do you need to prepare? I think eight weeks is perfect. Yeah, eight weeks is perfect.

I'll take six weeks. Four weeks feels kind of like, yeah. Everything's kind of got to be rushed. But, yeah, I think six to eight weeks is perfect. And what are you doing for recovery while you're out there? Are you doing Thai massage? Are you doing any cryotherapy? Dude, Thai massages are so cheap.

You can get a two-hour Thai massage for yourself. You can get a two-hour Thai massage for maybe like $10. Wow. Two hours, full body high massage with elbows and feet everything that's incredible amazing and then um they do the ice baths but they put like big blocks of ice they don't put bags so there's a bunch of just ice baths and massages that's it stretching but uh i really uh i really want to do something down there like save some money and maybe get like recovery place going like what kind of recovery place i want to do something down there, like save some money and maybe get a recovery place going.

What kind of recovery place? I want to bring something down there. I wasn't going to give out this idea, but whatever. Who cares? I think because there's so much stuff down there, gyms, CrossFit, restaurants, all that stuff, I think the only thing that's lacking is a proper recovery, cryo, cold plunge, hot tub, no massage, just like speedy recovery. You've been in the cryo, right? Yeah. Man, you can go after a hard session and go cryo and go take a nap and you'll feel pretty good.

Yeah. But the ice bath. You feel really good just getting out of it. Do you feel the same way from ice baths uh cold plunge yeah like the one at the pi that one's freezing cold i do a couple minutes in there and yeah um the ice bath so in thailand because the the bricks are so big it takes a long time to really like fill up and stuff so they don't get as cold so i think i would love to just to help out like help that little community and just get something really like really good in there for just recovery and have, you know, maybe some some type of smoothies or something to help boost everything up, get the system running again so that we can train multiple times a day.

Now, do you do anything to monitor your heart rate or heart rate variability to see if you're over trained or under trained? See how you're feeling? Yeah, not as much as we did here at the UFC PI, but I do have a heart rate variability to see if you're over trained or under trained see how you're feeling uh yeah not as much as we did here at the ufcpi but uh i do have a heart rate monitor and for this fight camp i use it only to um make sure that i can get my weight down because i got up to like 235 and i did this like vo2 max test and I did all this stuff. And this clinic down there helped me to just understand when my body's burning fat, so where to keep my heart rate and how to monitor when I'm actually working hard enough to lose the weight. And it worked, so it was good. It's such a different world now with all these scientific inventions and different ways that they can make sure that your body's in a good space.

It's not guesswork anymore. They can make sure you're not overtrained or fighting something off. The same time I was doing VO2 max, they had like an EKG going on, everything. So I'm like running. They're making sure my heart's pumping, my lungs are functioning, everything all in sync. And they gave me this whole big printout of everything, and everything seemed to be working perfectly. So they were just like, okay, well, in order to lose this much weight by this much,

this is where you need to be at. And when your body's at the highest fat-burning stages, or when your heart rate's at like 178 for me it was, 178 ppms. And so I did my best to push there just and i at least know when i'm there i'm burning the most fat so i'll try to get there as much as possible are you gonna try to not do that again as far as like get that heavy oh 100 yeah yeah 100 but getting getting that heavy too was like i'd lost the johnny walker fight got to thailand oh food sugar like all this stuff so i just kind of like i don't know what I'm fighting again.

But now I'm ready to be active. That was a big part of my decision to go there too and stay there a year because I want to be active this year. Two fights, but training. Where do they have you ranked now? I don't think I am. You don't think you're ranked even top 15? No, definitely not

what do you think you should uh do in terms of the next level of fighter you face like what what kind of guy would you like to fight man that's crazy i don't even ask myself those questions what do you do you just wait for the call yeah i usually just i wait for the call and whoever they they usually offer two they have like two options really yeah like how do you choose uh usually they offer like like the last time it was, okay, there's Eric Anders or there's a guy like I didn't even know his name. Like this guy is going to be new coming into the UFC and Eric Anders is like coming off a loss, blah, blah, blah.

I'm like, okay, well, sucks. I know Eric, all this stuff, but I'd rather fight Eric because I've already lost three times to guys who are making their UFC debuts and it's just not good for me. You know what I mean? Like, obviously they're tough, they're hungry, they're trying to get into the UFC. It's going to be a really tough fight.

And so that's kind of how I made the decision the last one. I was like, I don't want to take the risk of losing another fight to a guy who is making his debut because three times was enough for me that's refreshingly honest yeah yeah that's what you i mean it's like we were talking about earlier about boxers having managers that have a strategy to keep them undefeated as long as possible give them tests and have them decide like when's the right time to take this fight one's you know what's what's the right thing to do and as a professional how much of an advantage is it to know what a guy does know who he is have seen him fight a bunch of times been around him yeah it's i just like just for instance um like i fought go kansaki and then they offered me johnny

walker and so like johnny walker was coming off contender series but still nobody knew And so, like, Johnny Walker was coming off Contender Series, but still nobody knew. Like, not even we knew. We saw his highlights, but we're like, oh, well, like, look at the competition that he's faced. Right. You know, so we didn't really get to see much of what he was capable of. So I'm like, okay, if that's all you got, then I'll take the fight. But then here comes Johnny Walker, this, like, raging beast, you know.

I mean, like, the guy's huge so um yeah it was just it was weird like so i went from beating okan sake to losing johnny walker thank god johnny walker has been as good as he has and has made a name for himself but still like yeah i just didn't want to be like a i guess like a a foot in or what do they call it like uh a journeyman yeah not a journeyman but like when they say like you're trying to get like your foot in the door or something like that like a foot in the door god someone someone said it on on instagram i saw it like a few times but um yeah i just didn't want to, like, just be another guy that, you know, could possibly give somebody their shot into the UFC. I was like, oh, let me fight a guy that's in the UFC this time.

Well, so now that you did and you had the fight with Eric Anders and you have this spectacular result, and now, you know, people are recognizing that you've made some big improvement, like, what caliber of fighter, like, Who do you think would propel your career? What would be the best next step? I mean, definitely I think it's time for me to break somewhere into the top 15. You know, for sure. Nowhere in the guys that are at the very top because they're all kind of tied up.

They're all pretty tied up. And I definitely think it'll be a while before I can actually fight Jones. Because just of how things are laid out. I know for sure Johnny Walker's ranked. And he's already kind of in talks. He's the guy to beat Jon Jones. So I'm sure they're going to try to set that up. And then there's kind of this set of guys in the middle.

Did Johnny Walker fuck his shoulder up when he was doing that worm thing? Supposedly. Supposedly. But I think he's fine. I think he's fine. Because I've had people call me and like, hey, I just see this Johnny Walker guy down on the street every day. I guess he's back in Thailand now. So he did that flop around thing. And then when he got up, he couldn't move his shoulder.

Yeah, dislocated it. So it was dislocated or something like that. I think that's what happened. That's so insane. Were you? Yes. I was commenting. After, right?

Yeah. I think you called it out. I was like, what's going on, man? Yeah. He's, I hope he didn't permanently injure his shoulder. No, I think he might be fine. I hope so. Yeah, he's not walking around in a sling or anything right now, he could have a little but yeah after your fight with him he's made quite an

account of himself yeah that last fight with that flying knee was insane yeah so i'm sure i'm sure before i get to the top i'd have to fight him again right what's up jim yeah i would imagine yeah he is currently recuperating from shoulder surgery after dislocating it. Shoulder surgery? Dude. Ugh. Shoulder surgery. That's never good. He fucked up. That's crazy.

I've never known anybody to have shoulder surgery and come back with a fully good shoulder. Andre Ward did. Andre Ward had shoulder surgery and came back better than ever. But he's also got the best doctors. Sure. Took a long time. Two months from a comeback is what he says. He hopes to fight the winner.

Two months. Gustafson Anthony Smith. He better take his time. He doesn't want to fuck his shoulder up forever if it rips again. That's a great fight. Anthony Smith and Gustafson, that's a great fight. And Anthony Smith, he really held his own. He made a good account of himself in that fight.

He didn't win the fight, but he showed everybody how technical he is, especially in that first round. Yeah, for sure. Real good and sharp. John's just better. John's just better. I mean, for now, he just has his number. I mean, in the John Jones you're seeing now,

it's a John Jones that sort of has a real goal in mind. Yeah, yeah. He's had it taken away from him and he gave they gave it back to him and now he knows he has it he's capitalizing on it it seems like it it's just like he knows what it's like to be to be the best but not be able to to really like do anything about it right for a long amount of time yeah and so i think it's i think it's pretty cool to be able to see this version of him and to be active around this time. Maybe I'll get a shot or maybe he'll still be around at the top

whenever I get my shot, depending on how it goes. If you had a timeline in your head of when you think you'd be ready to challenge for a title, when do you think it would be? Oh. I can give it another year. Yeah. I think I can get one more year, year and a half of good solid fights in to really solidify myself just in the UFC

and just put in the work and everything that it takes to really embody what I think it would be, like what I think it would take to be a champion, a successful champion, not just like get the belt and lose it. You know, like get the belt and then just be a champion for a couple months, like not to actually be a champion and hold it down, I think, a couple months. Like, no, to actually be a champion and hold it down, I think a little over a year.

Well, it's an unbelievably talent-rich weight class, right? Because Cormier is still kind of in it. John Jones is the champion. You know, he just got off the Anthony Smith fight. Anthony Smith, Gustafson. Gustafson is still a beast. But no one is, like, really standing out as being this person that everybody wants to see challenged for the title.

You've got worthy challengers. They're good fights, but there's no one that you're seeing them, except Cormier was the only one. When you're seeing him versus John, you're like, what the fuck is going to happen here? What's going to happen here?

That's what the division needs, I think. Definitely. What the fuck is going to happen here? What's going to happen here? And that's what the division needs, I think. Yeah, definitely. And that's something that I can also see, and that's something that I also want to do for myself. I want to be the best version, and I'm starting to find out what that's like, especially the happy, being able to do what I want to do and strike how i want to strike and stuff so now like let's get some some fights in there to mix it up yeah really

like test that like test if it works test if that's really going to be able to to sustain and and what it takes to get to get there you know what i mean like i'm willing to test it like if they want to put me up against the best grappler in the world and think that i'll have no chance on the ground okay cool or if they want to put me against well they already did they thought i wouldn't stand a chance against gokansaki and like i was very happy for that because like i'm like okay cool i get to test the best of my abilities like it's against a legend yeah i didn't like i knew that i had everything it took to beat him, but I didn't think, like, ah, he's going to destroy me.

No, never. Like, so I want to continue to be tested. It's interesting your approach because I wonder if the fact that you were such a non-confrontational guy and you are really easygoing helps you in that you have, like like less conflict in your head i almost wonder because even the way you approach like these different matchups and everything you like you kind of put your ego aside you're looking at like what is the smart thing to do here the smart thing to do is not take this fight against this newcomer guy i've already lost some newcomer guys the smart thing is

okay we we realized that thailand was extremely beneficial let's fucking move to thailand like so you're doing all these like really really smart moves where you know you're you're looking at it very logically but you have confidence in yourself but you know you don't you're not like a braggy guy you know you're getting everything done with your work you know you're getting everything done with your results it's a it's interesting to see man because you want to see as many different kinds of fighters as possible and you're like a new kind of thing that's the most important thing though man like i i don't i don't really tune in to much ufc and like what's going on because of that reason right i don't care about what people have to say in this i don't watch fighting to hear what people have to say you know like i didn't fight like it's not about talking

it's about fighting right and the only thing that i can prove and have to prove is what i can do with my skills that's it you know so like if they put me like if they put me against any type of other fighter like if let's go back to the roots of mixed like if let's go back to the roots of mixed martial arts let's go back to the roots of ufc like when guys weren't even the same size and they were just matching up different martial arts like be down for that i mean i'd consider it and if it had to happen now like yeah i'd definitely think about it and i'd probably lean more towards doing it than saying no do you have guys trash talk you like you're pretty easygoing guy easygoing it's it's nothing to my face it's always subtle if if i ever hear about anybody saying something it's just through word of mouth and i'm just like yeah well but you never had like a conor mcgregor type incident where

only in the beginning with paul craig but oh yeah i think it was just it was just like his thing we've like we smashed that beef you know that's good yeah but what do you think about trash talking in this day and age because in in many ways look connor's an amazing fighter and his fighting skills what's made him such an international superstar but he also talked some mad shit and that helped him too, because he was so good at it. It was funny. He would say funny,

mean, insulting shit. It was fucking great. A hundred percent. Yeah. But I think what people forget, Joe, is that like,

that's always been Connor. Even when you go and, and, and look at the, the, the interviews from before he was in the UFC and he was just like, I'm going to make a bunch of money and I'm going to be all this.

So he created that for himself. And, yeah, he made a bunch of money from talking trash because he always had a plan that that's what he was going to do. And so I think people try to hop on it just to sell tickets or get money. And sometimes it works. It gets people wanting to watch and it gets your name up and stuff like that. But that's not the type of name I want to make for myself. I don't like people talking trash to me, so I'm not really going to talk trash to anybody unless there's something that's really personal.

But if I don't know you and I don't care about you, then I don't really consider it. Why would I talk trash? I don't even care about you, then I don't really consider it. Like, why would I talk trash? I don't even care about you. It's a waste of energy. It's a waste of, like, I got so much other stuff to care about. Yeah, well, it's a very healthy look, man. I mean, the way you're seeing it. I like that you said healthy.

Like, I'd like to maintain a healthy heart and mind as much as possible. Dude, it's, damn, man, like, mental health is a real thing.

It is. You know what I mean? And especially, like, especially just having certain obligations and, and just using social media

and having people reach out and they say like, oh, ignore this, ignore that. But it's like, man, like, it's hard to just ignore certain things,

you know, like you still see things. And so just that and condition of the world and just everything, man, being in multiple different countries and hearing this news and that news and blah, blah, blah,

blah, blah. Like for a person who like, who wants to care about the world or just genuinely cares, like a lot can go on in my mind. So I'm just like, I don't even want that in my heart, man. I'm just going to do my best to kind of keep my own peace and come fight time.

I'll let it loose. Dude, I like the way you're living, man. You've got a great approach. I just want to be happy, man. That's it. I appreciate that. Happiness is important. It is, man.

It's a great message too, man. And to have it come from you a guy i love those kind of stories where a guy's life was all fucked up and you figured it out man and you put it together man tell me like nothing feels better than just like being fucking happy yeah right like when you're just when you're okay with your life when you're okay with your your your when you're okay with your heart and your integrity, when you just feel like, you know what? I haven't done anything wrong. I'm okay. Life is happening the way it is, and I don't have to think about, did I fuck this person over? Did I do this?

No, everything is okay. So will I welcome anything else? No, man. Clear mind, clear heart. It's a rare thing. It's a rare feat to achieve balance and balance is hard to maintain so it's like it takes a little bit of fighting it takes meditation it takes anger it takes it like yin and yang is the most beautiful thing ever man like that is life that is life it really is the opposite the balance of opposites constant the constant flow like that's why i love just opposite, the balance of opposites, the constant flow.

That's why I love just reading the Tao Te Ching and just Kundalini Yoga. All the cool spiritual stuff, I'm like, yeah, man, this is it. It just helps me to just kind of reach for this peace, this light. That's awesome. Do you see the contradiction in reaching for that peace and light while you're smashing people yes and that's that's life that's life that's life man that's life you know like yeah like a battery right in order for it to to give its power like it's got to have the negative and positive like energies flowing through it and it's like i feel like a lot of the times people are too focused on one side, like too much negative or too much positive, and you need a good amount of both in order for that energy to spark.

Well said. You're a wise man. I appreciate you, man, and thanks for coming on the show. I can't wait to do commentary for one of your fights again, man. I can't wait to have you there again. It was really fun, man. We had a good fucking time. It was great.

Thank you. Respect. fights again man can't wait to have you there it was really fun man we had a good fucking time it was great thank you thank you respect oh that was great man you were terrific