The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #66 with Michelle Waterson

Episode Date: May 28, 2019

Joe is joined by UFC Strawweight fighter Michelle Waterson.

Two, one. Hello, Michelle. How's it going? I was getting ready to crack my neck. Go ahead, crack your neck. Put the microphone to it so we can hear it. Does it pop? I think I just popped.

Ooh, that was a good one. That was a good one. Do you do that all the time? Just when I'm getting ready to... Throw down? Yeah. Pull this microphone like a fist from your face. There we go.

Is that better? Yeah, perfect, perfect. So what from your face. There we go. Is that better? Yeah, perfect, perfect. So what's happening? No, we're just in town. My brother-in-law just got stationed here in California, so we drove him down, and then we did the whole thing. San Diego? No, I think it's actually an hour south of here, I think. It's not close by, but cool air force okay we did

the whole edwards yes okay yeah okay i know where that is yeah yeah so we got stationed there that was the first time i ever saw a stealth bomber it was like at right after 9-1-1 we were filming um uh fear factor out there and i saw one fly overhead it's like a ufo it's like wow that is crazy does it look like a ufo yeah it doesn't even look real you ever seen one in real life it looks like a like a batmobile like like batman's plane it's so crazy when you see one flying you're like wow the engineering involved in something like that it's insane and that was a while back yeah it's fear factor sure it was 2001 because it was right after 9-11 so it's insane and that was a while back yeah it's your factor sure it was 2001 because it was right after 9-11 so it's 2000 that's it right there that's what we saw one of them there's

one of them it's uh there's a b2 and then this is like a f-116 or something like that i don't know which one we saw but it was black and wicked looking nice yeah that's crazy it looks like your tesla yeah flying around on one of those things that's what we thought well imagine back then that's what it looked like back then so what what is there now right you probably can't see him it probably looked like the sky probably are you from military background my dad yeah my dad was so that's what my parents met my dad was stationed in germany my mom was fleeing thailand to her her first husband was like physically abusive to her so she was leaving thailand and she came to germany to find her a gi and then found my dad she came to find

a gi specifically well you know i think she was coming to get away but you know she wanted to she wanted a better life for her son at the time. And my dad was in the hospital. And so my mom was taking care of him and cooking him food and made him fall in love. There you go. And my dad always jokes. He tells us this story all the time. He's like, yeah, your mom was taking care of me. And then she told me that you were pregnant.

And then 12 months later, you were born. Oh, that's funny. But but no they fell in love it was just a really long pregnancy just weird just kind of weird i don't know why yeah she's like 12 months i don't know but i was very small but no yeah and then so then we moved to colorado and i was born then we lived in germany for a little bit when i was younger and then so then we moved to Colorado, and I was born. Then we lived in Germany for a little bit when I was younger, and then back to Colorado, and I grew up in Aurora, Colorado. Oh, cool. When did you start training?

Probably around 10. Yeah? Yeah, around 10. I have an older brother. He's four years older than me. He's my half-brother. And I really wanted to do gymnastics as a kid, and my parents just couldn't afford it. It was really expensive.

And so my brother found a little karate spot at the church just across the street, and it was a community karate thing, and so it was something that all three of us could do. And so, yeah, we jumped into it, and I fell in love with it. It just took over my life and changed changed my life did you start competing really quickly yeah I think so um and at first it's funny because at first um so I would do like the the karate tournaments and so there's point sparring and then there's the katas. And I thought the katas were silly. And I remember going in and doing point sparring and getting knocked on my butt.

And I was like, okay, I think I want to do some katas then. I want to bring some trophies home. So, yeah, I competed karate from 10 all the way up until I was 18. And so I did a lot of the, like, the flashy, like, extreme martial arts, katas with the, like, the flips and stuff like that. But I always came back to sparring because I wasn't good at it. Like, I was like, it bugged me. It bugged me that I wasn't good at it. And then I found my niche because it's point sparring.

So you get two points to the head for kicks to the head. So I would just sit back and let them come in and just kick them in the head. Kick them in the head a couple times and win the fight. So how did you go from that? Did you go from that to kickboxing or did you go right into MMA? When did you start training MMA? So I did karate. boxing or did you go right into MMA? Like when did you, when did you start training MMA? So, so I did, I did karate and then I got my black belt in karate. What kind? American freestyle. And then, so I think around 18 or 19, I was kind of just exploring doing a couple of different things. So I did Wushu for a couple of years and and I competed in Wushu. And then I did a little bit of Kempo and then kind of dabbled a little bit into kickboxing.

And so it all kind of just happened pretty strangely. I was in college. I was working at Hooters, and I was doing all these little side jobs, like doing photo shoots for this and that and um I was a ring girl for an MMA show I had never seen MMA and I remember uh just walking around the cage and thinking man I want to be like on the inside I said that one that looks cool I think I could do it because it was mixed martial arts you know and i remember talking to promoter and he kind of laughed me off and was just like whatever you know you're a ring girl and um it was a smaller local show donald serrani was actually fighting on that show and he overheard

me yeah and so he came to my work at hooters and i wasn't there and he was just like left me a note serious about fighting get your ass in the gym wow and then where was this is in Colorado Colorado and then I so I went to go train I went to go training with with Donald and you know we we gym hopped from place to place I trained with um with Dwayne I trained um with Trevor I trained with with all the guys wow and and so I took a couple smokers. We'd drive, you know, drive around the region and took a couple smokers. And then it was like at that point when I was still in college and I just was not happy in college. I was kind of wandering around aimlessly. It was really successful in high school and, you know, it just didn't transfer over to college.

I got good grades. I was 3.8. I was going to DU, but I wasn't happy. There was something missing, and it was the martial arts. It was a big part of my life. You needed a real challenge. You needed something physical too probably, right? Yeah.

I would imagine that someone growing up doing martial arts as long as you did, the thrill of using your body and moving around, it's so important. Once you do that and you compete and it becomes a part of you, the idea of sitting in a classroom all day and then eventually sitting in a job all day was probably not not that compelling yeah i think so i think that um i just yeah i was what were you going to school for i was going to school so i was double majoring in theater and um sports science so i was majoring in theater because i got a scholarship for it and i was doing sports science i wanted to be like

physical therapist for um like a sports team or something like that. Or even a martial arts team. But yeah, so I decided to take a little bit, like a break from that. And my mom, my grandma was sick in Thailand. So then I was like, I told my mom I'd just go with her for the summer. And I went to visit my grandma in Thailand. And while I was out there, I went to visit my grandma in Thailand and while I was out there I I went to sit yetong muay thai camp and I absolutely fell in love with it they made fun

of me because of my my karate kicks yeah it's interesting how different karate kicks are yeah thai kicks yeah and they were looking at me like I was crazy but I was like but no I'm a black belt I know what I'm doing they're just laughing at me we're training on concrete outside these little five-year-old kids are doing 10 year old 10 minute rounds and my feet are blistering up from kicking over and over and over on the concrete but I loved it I fell in love with it it kicked my butt and I fell in love with it and I came back and I dropped out of college and I decided to pursue fighting wow so where did you learn grappling so so my first MMA fight was kind of just it was supposed to be an amateur fight and um like I said I was training with um with Donald and he was training at a school in vale and so i would i would go to i would um

i would work on the weekends and then drive up to vale and train uh my grappling and all of it like the like all of the mma and so so you basically trained mma together like you didn't take specific grappling classes but would imagine that that was the thing that you needed to concentrate on the most right yeah and i i figured okay is my my pro day or it wasn't it was supposed to be amateur but the girl that i was supposed to fight fell through and um the only girl that they had available was already pro she She was like 2-0 pro. And, of course, you know how Donald is.

He's like, whatever, fuck it, just do it. That's a good Donald accent. So I was like, all right. I mean, we've been training. So I literally had four weeks. Throughout my karate career, we would have grappling nights when we would do grappling, but it wasn't anything like substantial. So, yeah, four weeks of grappling training. And I figured, OK, you know, I'll just use my stand up to win the fight.

And she was swinging from way back here and trying to take my head off. So I ended up taking her down i ended up taking down like six or seven times and winning the fight by taking her down and ground and pounding that's crazy yeah it was crazy did you say while you were doing it like wow this is so weird that i'm doing this it was i i wasn't thinking at all i was just in the moment having the time of my life were you thinking that this was what you were going to wind up doing, like professionally? Or were you just thinking, I can't believe I'm doing this?

Yeah, that's exactly what I was like. This is so much fun. It was at the Broomfield Event Center. I don't know if that's still called the Broomfield Event Center in Colorado. Yeah, I think a bank owns it now or something. They always change names. It was so much fun. But never in my life I thought I would be. A it now or something. They always change names. It was so much fun.

But never in my life I thought I would be. A top UFC contender. Never. And on your way, your goal is to be the first mommy to ever win a title. Yeah. That's possible. 100%. You're in the hunt right now. What are you ranked?

I'm ranked 7th. 7th, but I don't think the rankings are anything. They're weird. They're weird. Yeah. It's like sometimes someone will beat somebody, and then that person's still ahead of them in the ranking. I'm like, explain that.

I just don't understand the rankings at all. I feel like I've won my last two fights, and I've gone down in rankings. What? Joanna hasn't fought, and she's gone down in rankings. And some of the girls haven't fought, and they've gone up in rankings. And some of the girls haven't fought and they've gone up in rankings. I just think the rankings are crazy. Yeah. Well, it's a bunch of people get to submit their positions, right?

Like a bunch of journalists and accepted experts on MMA get to. I have no idea. I guess when I look at the rankings, sometimes I feel like it shifts depending on who they're trying to push. Sometimes I feel like just storyline kind of can dictate the rankings. Obviously, I'm a giant fan of the UFC. I love them to death. I'm so happy. I would do nothing for any other organization.

I'd never want to work for another organization. But I don't like the way they do things. There's a lot of things that I don't like. They just cut Elias Theodoro. Really? Yeah. One loss. Derek Bronson.

That's scary. I'm like, what? They cut Derek Bronson? No, no. He lost to Derek Bronson. Okay, I was like, what? He just won. I'm like, explain that.

How do you explain that one? That one doesn't make any sense. There's like some matchups don't make any sense. Interim title shots, those are preposterous. It's crazy. Yeah. I mean, I understand it's a machine and it has to work. I guess.

But it just, especially for like a fighter whose life depends on the fights and, you know, your livelihood depends on that. And for you just to be out yeah it's stressful enough to only fight a couple times a year because you have to divvy up that that purse money throughout those times you know but yeah well i think people like you are very important for women's mma because you seem so normal you know what i mean like there's some women you talk to me like well this girl's fucking crazy no wonder why she's a fighter you know what i mean like there's some women you talk to me like well this girl's fucking crazy no wonder why she's a fighter you know what i mean like there's some girls are real aggressive or just bad like you talk to amanda nunez you're like i get it yeah yeah she should

be a fighter she's really yeah she's cool so cool yeah she's so cool but that's a badass bitch yeah you know i mean she'll fuck people up You could tell For sure Just looking at her You know like the way She's built She's wide You could tell She's got power She looks like a girl

You would not want To fuck with Josh called it Josh called it He said That she'd knock out Cyborg That was crazy That was crazy

That was I didn't I didn't think That she couldn't Knock her out I think she can Knock out anyone I mean I think she can knock out anyone. I mean, I think Amanda Nunes can knock out a lot of guys.

She hits so hard. Yeah. But I thought that there would be a big weight disadvantage. Cyborg has a tremendous experience advantage. And she's never shown herself to be someone that gets hurt. Yeah. Even when she fought Jorina Barge. Did you ever see that fight in Lion Fight?

I remember seeing highlights of it. Because she's Jorina Barge. Did you ever see that fight? In Lion Fight? I remember seeing highlights of it because she's just stuck on the ropes. And Jorina is an elite kickboxer. And Cyborg got dropped and kept coming. She was pursuing her in the final rounds. She was chasing after. She lost the

decision but she gained a lot of fans because she didn't have any pro Muay Thai fights and she fought a woman who couldn't get a fight for almost three years because girls were ducking her yeah because they didn't want to fight her muay thai is brutal i feel like because my husband and i talk about this all the time because in mma you have options like if you're having if you're having trouble in the stand-up you can take them down you can work your grappling this or that in boxing you don't really have much options either you you give up you get knocked out or you give up you know in the corner and i feel it's the same way in in muay thai except for now you're introducing knees and shins and elbows and like those cut

and you have no way out like yeah you know so that's that's brutal yeah it's a rough sport and an incredibly exciting sport to watch. And one that I've never understood. I mean, boxing is so gigantic in this country. And Muay Thai has almost no presence. And I've just, it baffles me to no end. I mean, they have the product. I mean, they have great American fighters.

I mean, like Joe Schilling, Kevin Ross, and there's a ton of them. And there's guys like John Wayne Parr from Australia. And all these guys are exciting to watch and fun and then there's so many elite kids that are coming up but there's no mainstream appeal. It doesn't, I don't understand that. I don't know why either. Yeah. That is crazy to think. They need a thing like the UFC where something comes along and they dump a ton of money into

it but the thing is like there's only, people only have so much time to watch things. So it's like, oh, Deontay Wilder's fighting. I'll watch that. Oh, Tyron Woodley's fighting. I'll watch him. Oh, Jon Jones is fighting. I'll watch that. What's this Muay Thai?

Ah, this fight song. I'm going to watch Bellator instead. I'm going to watch that instead. It's almost too saturated. Yeah, that's true. I'm going to watch Bellator instead. I'm going to watch that instead. It's like there's, it's almost like too saturated. Yeah, that's true. But it's, it's a shame. It'd be cool if they had like a card with all different types of,

of fighting on there. Well, that's what one does. Mm-hmm. You know. And all in the same night. Yes. One FC does that. They'll have kickboxing,

Muay Thai, and MMA in one night. Is it confusing? No. No, they let everybody know. Mm-hmm. You know, this is what they're doing. I think one is doing fantastic.

They're putting on amazing fights. I mean, and we've seen that these are legitimately world class fighters. They're beating guys like Timothy Natsukin just beat Eddie Alvarez. Knocked him out. That was crazy. Yeah, and they're also, they cut out all the weight

cutting. There's no weight cutting over there. So like when northcutt fought uh cosmo alexandre he fought him at 185 pounds because that's really what he walks around you know so there's no weight cutting over there that was a brutal hit that he got caught with crazy i'm i'm glad that he's okay but yeah he's okay but yeah his his face has had eight fractures do you think it's better for him to cut down? It's a good question. It's a very good question. Because, I mean, if he's getting knocked out by that,

I'm wondering if maybe he should be walking around lighter or, I don't know, because he's pretty lean already. He's lean, but that fight played out realistically. Not that it's better for him or worse for him but sage is a young guy he's 21 or 22 years old he's got a limited amount of world-class muay thai experience he fought cosmo who was a multiple-time world champion yeah and it's just a bad fight why why did they why would they set that up if they're trying to build them it's easy like i've said that too and people like oh it's easy to say after the fact.

You're right. But if I was in Sage's corner, I'd go, hey, bro, there's a lot of fights we should take. And that was a Muay Thai fight. No, it was an MMA fight. It was an MMA fight. Okay. But Sage is not a wrestler. Yeah.

I mean, he has taken guys down before. But I would absolutely say that's the game plan. The game plan is tie this guy up and drag him to the ground. Don't be standing with this dude. I just feel like if you have a background in something, in stressful situations, you always revert back to what you know. Sure. And so even if he did work his wrestling, he's going to revert back to his really hoppy movie stance. And that's what it looked like, what happened.

He was kind of pulling out hopping back and got caught yeah well he was trying that sideways karate style stance and you know cosmo's just super elite and you saw if you saw the fight he fainted a couple times with the left he set him up like with the switch a couple times and then as sage circled off he went to his right and cracked him but that guy's just a super elite fighter. I mean, when it comes to striking, I feel like that is where being elite is the most dangerous for an opponent. You know, I feel like if you fight an elite jiu-jitsu guy and he catches you and he submits you, you live another day. You know, like Neil Magny andin damian maya we found out you know damian gets him to the ground and just strangles him

right yeah but that's he'll be all right if you get ko'd by an elite striker who knows what kind of damage happens to you you know when when his face got broken he's had eight fractures in his face his cheek his orbital like they had to piece him back together did his orbital detach do you know i don't know i don't know the extent of the injuries he posted up some images though did you see the images of the x-rays it's like whoa like this is this is horrible yeah i mean so so that's how i feel against um jujitsu people when they submit me i'm like okay like let's do it again you know yeah exactly well what about andrage and rose i was crazy yeah i was scared for rose was a really bad landing landing on her neck like that was terrifying that's what scared

me just because we were in brazil too and that crowd was crazy and everybody shot up and started screaming and Rose was just like laid out on the canvas and I kind of was just like wanting her corner to be in there with her because she was just all alone about herself right you know and I was worried that she wasn't going to get up I was like hey you guys like wait to cheer until we see she's okay because that can parallel someone yeah 100 yeah and if you look at the impact have you seen the photograph of the landing itself i mean it's it's one of the worst ways you could ever land she's essentially head first with the neck sideways and um flattened yeah and her neck is space yeah it's like someone was cranking on her neck it's horrible yeah that's a bad landing

i mean the whole thing was bad she's going for the kimura um jessica picks her up she doesn't lace a leg and she holds on the kimura which you you just can't do you just can't do you got to let it go you know but she she's she's held on to things before and you know and caught arm bars and triangles and it's one of those things you know You make a mistake. Because I know people were talking about it being illegal to slam somebody like that. She didn't do it on purpose. She just tried to slam her.

I mean, she's just trying to lift her up and dump her down. I mean, the illegal slamming is like when Minotauro fought Bob Sapp. Do you remember that? No. Minotauro fought Bob Sapp, and Bob Sapp literally got him in a pile driver. And Bob Sapp was 370 pounds with abs and on everything that Mexico has to offer. Every steroid that was available, Bob Sapp was on. They said that he used to travel with like a briefcase filled with roids.

I mean, he was a goddamn science project at one point. It was fascinating to watch right Because I think to this day That was probably one of the greatest victories In all of MMA Minotauro who was He was outweighed by a good Solid 130

140 pounds Like legitimately And still got an arm bar Off of Bob Sapp Jamie you got it yeah watch this so look at the size difference first of all just see the beginning of the fight see so he shoots he shoots but look at the size difference when you see them come out it is so crazy bob sap was so big but look at this boom so that now minotaur's neck was fucked up from that forever like that

haunted him his entire career watch this boom oh no yep see he tucks his head a little bit at the last second so he doesn't catch it on the top of the head but all of his weight all of bob sap's weight look at that well i don't even think he tucked it i think it just gave in going he kept going and he fucking submitted him minotaur was one of the toughest guys that's ever walked the face of the planet look at this he scoots out he escapes and gets on top of him this is crazy yeah well look at the size difference three different four five Three different, four, five different weight classes. I mean, Bob was so big. And he's probably on EPO and fucking everything. And look at that. Just windmilling with his legs.

And he was trained by Maurice Smith. You know, Maurice was training him. So he was a legitimate, you know, legitimately trained athlete. And he was so big. So this is back in the day when there's like 10 minute rounds 10 minute first round so minotaur i believe it went into the second round though i want to say what oh my gosh i don't remember entirely whether it went into the second round but i want to say it did yeah yeah i mean look he beat ernesto Hoos twice in kickboxing matches.

But it also goes to show you how hard Cro Cop punches, because Cro Cop flattened him with one punch. Cro Cop broke his orbital bone with a straight left. So Minotauro eventually gets him on his back, and then once he gets him on his back, because Bob Sapp, like you can only keep 375 pounds going for so long Yeah I mean he's just Completely exhausted

No matter how many steroids you do Yeah So this is the end He ties up his arm And catches him in an arm bar And Bob Sapp taps And I was at my friend Fuck

Whose house was that But I was with Eddie Bravo When we saw this And we were screaming We couldn't believe it We couldn't believe it Because it was like a victory for... That is amazing.

It was a victory for technique. You know, that's what it was. It was a victory for jiu-jitsu. It was a victory for technique over brawn. It was a perfect example of technique over brawn. Yeah. Not that Minotaur doesn't have brawn and not that Bob Sapp doesn't have technique.

Absolutely. But if they were the same size, Minotaur would have fucked him up. For sure. It would have been an easy fight for him. He just weathered the storm and wasn't scared to be in there with them. Yeah, Fedor wouldn't fight him. Fedor said, fuck that.

They offered Fedor a fight with Bob's size. Like, no, I'm good. And he fought Hong Man Choi when Hong Man Choi was like seven feet tall. You remember that fight? It was one of the most ridiculous arm bars ever. He caught him in an arm bar and the arm is as long as this fucking table. It was so crazy. He had to stretch his arms like this.

That was a ridiculous arm bar. A ridiculous arm bar. That's crazy. You'll never see any fights like that happen nowadays. Not anymore. Well, I still think someone might do it. Yeah, Ryzen could do it. They still do fucked up things with Gabby Garcia.

Yeah, that's crazy. Gabby Garcia is a science project and a half that's that's crazy what is that i think has she been beaten uh not that i'm aware of yeah how are they gonna find someone a woman who's 240 pounds they're not she's 240 pounds jacked and she's a legit black belt in brazilian jiu-jitsu yeah and she's you know she's legitimately tough i thought i saw the video of her um grappling with uh mackenzie duran and mackenzie like almost mackenzie beat her oh did she i think mackenzie beat her in a jiu-jitsu match in a jiu-jitsu match but in mma i don't think anybody's beating her yeah i think mackenzie either beat her or draw how to draw one on advantage something like that but look it is what it is. That's science. Okay, you're doing some stuff.

You're doing some stuff to people that's not, your body's not supposed to have that in there, lady. It's not. You know what I mean? I don't know. It's interesting because like the bobsap thing, like you get to see what happens. Like, wow, okay, this is when someone just goes for it. And when Pride, Ensign Inouye was on the podcast, and Ensign's hilarious, he was detailing the contract.

He was like, it's said in all capital letters, we will not test you for steroids. Yeah. They were like. That's what Joey would tell me all the time, Joey Villasenor. He's been in my corner for the last couple of fights. Joey's an excellent fighter. And he would say that he said it almost they almost um

encouraged encouraged it not almost they basically did encourage it because they just wanted to see crazy yeah things that like came out of comic books you know they wanted you to be jacked yeah they wanted you to be gigantic yeah yeah i mean as long as everybody's doing it i guess i don't think i would never i wouldn't want do that, even if I had the choice to do it. You wouldn't want to. I wouldn't want to. Right. I get it.

Well, that makes sense. And that's why I think people like you are important for MMA. Because you are, you're a woman. Yeah. You seem like a woman. You behave like a woman. You look like a woman. If someone's like, look, that girl's a top 10 UFC fighter.

You'd be like, what? Mm-hmm. No way. Really? She's so normal. but if you saw gabby garcia you know that girl's smashing people in japan you're like i fucking believe it yeah i gotta get the fuck out of this room before she hulks out and starts to flatten me yeah no i just like i feel like it takes the um the joy it i feel like it would take the joy out of

a victory. If you did steroids. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you would become something different. The reality is a woman becomes something different when she starts taking male hormones. You just do.

You become something different. Your tendons strengthen, your bone structure changes, your voice deepens. You become much more like a man. I mean, that's when you see transgender women when when a woman rather is a transgender man she decides she wants to be a man they start taking testosterone they get beards

they have all sorts of uh strange things happen down below and they they start having a deeper voice and they sound like a man and that's that's exactly what happens to a woman when a woman takes steroids if she's not trying to transition it's the same thing yeah just taking male hormones that make your muscles grow far larger than they're supposed to yeah i remember watching a movie that they did in thailand it's called beautiful boxer have you seen that one yes but it's the opposite yes he wanted to be a woman but i think he did it the right way right if there's a right way to do it because well he started as a man and then became a woman and kept fighting men yes and i think that someone should have told her at the time like let's just stop fighting let's stop fighting or i this is my take on it like but she needed to keep fighting so that she could pay for the her transition yeah

yeah catch 22 if there ever was one yeah yeah but was an elite fighter until the transition and then you see the skills start to diminish because there's no more testosterone when she's fighting men but if she was fighting women she would have a giant advantage still over women and i don't think that's right i don't think that's fair either no one does no one does accept transgender people. Transgender people and super progressive activists who have no idea how sports work. Those are the people, the people that just want inclusiveness and they just want everyone to be okay. And, you know, maybe this is the world I'm looking for. I'm looking towards a world where everyone's included.

Yeah, good. Have a transgender league. Have a transgender division. I'm cool with that i'll be happy happily support them but you're pretending that that's a woman and it's not it's a male who's transitioning to a woman you have an xy chromosome it's a different thing yeah you know i'm 100 if a woman says i want to fight a transgender woman okay i'm 100 that's fine but like for leagues to recognize that this is the same thing and like to say like how would you feel if all of the ufc's weight classes in the women's division were dominated by transgender women i would feel like there were

some i feel like i should not say something right right right yeah like i'm gonna get caught up saying something yeah let me talk for you it's fucking bullshit it's fucking bullshit right yeah you don't have to say anything and that's how girls feel right now when there's sports being dominated in track and field yeah that's not fair it's not fair i mean i as i guess for me i've always been especially like being a female in a male dominant sport, I've always, I guess if I can like to consider myself a feminist, not so much a feminist, but like when I go into the gym, my teammates look at me as a fighter. Like they don't look at me as a female fighter or anything like that. They look at me as their teammate, you know what I

mean? And I appreciate that. I appreciate that they treat me as an athlete and and all of that good stuff but i feel like what like at the end of the day like girls need to fight girls and guys need to fight guys we like we have different strengths than the guys do and the guys have different strengths than the girls do and and it's nice for us to have a place so that we can showcase our skills. Yes, I agree. I think the only problem that I have with that transitioning thing is physical competition. That's it. Physical competition against the gender that you supposedly align with.

You can't do it. But here's what you don't see. Here's what you don't see. You don't see a lot of transgender men Who want to fight men You don't see a lot of women Who are taking hormones To become a man who want to fight men Good fucking luck with that ladies Good luck Stop this is crazy

This idea that you just magically become a woman Or you just magically become a man It's just not true And athletes recognize it And rational people recognize it but there's so much pushback from progressive people who it's like what percentage of the population are we even talking about here i mean it's not even one percent it's it's a very strange thing that it's it's taking over the conversation with bathrooms and competition and sports and so

many different things i'm all for inclusiveness and i'm all for being open-minded and letting people do you yeah whatever you want to do be yourself be whatever yourself is i don't know what yourself is i don't know what you feel but you can't compete against women that's it's that simple it's really that simple it has it has to be something deeper where they you know it and to me i think it goes back to like that mental like a mental block where you where you need some like a false sense of confidence yes i feel like well it's like sandbagging it really is it really it is the ultimate sandbagging it's like oh i'm a woman like wait a minute where the fuck did you get those hands you know that's it's really like the

ultimate form of i mean everybody for folks who don't know what sandbagging is oh i was going to bring up smokers too for folks who don't know what smokers is if you listen to this podcast the smoker is small amateur fights that they have in gyms uh or little arenas or high school gyms stuff like that but um uh sandbagging is like say if michelle had a black belt in jujitsu and then entered into a judo tournament as a white belt in Jiu Jitsu and then entered into a Judo tournament as a white belt and then just fucking flying armbar to everybody. They'd be like what the

hell is this? Where'd you get your white belt? Like how do you have a white belt? But we've all seen things like that before. Everyone has seen things like that before. There's people that pretend they're younger than they really are they pretend they're lighter than they really are they pretend because they want to win. This is no different. It's no different than they really are. They pretend they're lighter than they really are. They pretend because they want to win. This is no different.

It's no different. It really is. And the people who don't understand it, they have never competed in high-level athletics. It's really that simple. If you've competed in high-level athletics, you know that there's a differentiation. There's a difference between men and women.

There's a reason why we have a man's division and a women's division. It's not that anybody's better or worse it's just like there's unfair advantages like the bob sap minotaur thing that was an unfair advantage it's just overcome by someone who have superior skill and an iron will and that's what minotaur was when he beat bob sap i mean there's no denying that one guy was way bigger and way stronger, but it was overcome. You shouldn't force people to overcome. It should be even. If they were even, if Minotaur and Bob Sapp were even, here's the fight.

Shoot, takedown. Dang, on his back, armbar, bang. Fight's over. It'd be like a couple minutes maximum and Minotaur would have armbarred him. Yeah. Well, you think it's because people like to see the mismatch and maybe like that underdog story where the person that is, you know, the underdog comes and becomes victorious? Like Minotaur. But like, again, Minotaur's neck is still fucked up to this day.

You know, his neck bothered him his entire career from that one pile driver. 375 pounds plus his weight all on his neck. It just shows you how fucking tough that guy is you know the minotaur story was run over by a truck when he was a kid that's why he has this giant scar on his back like he was in a hospital for like a year the guy's an animal i mean he's as tough as they come i got hit by a truck you're not gonna do nothing to me you can't force everyone to be that tough you know i think it's important to have fairness. And this is why I'm so pro USADA.

I love what they're doing. I love the fact that they're testing the shit out of people. They're just showing up at people's houses at 6 o'clock in the morning. Hey, wake up. Time for a test. But is it the same in every country? That's a good question. It's a very good question.

If someone's training in Russia or Germany or wherever. Yeah, that's a very good question Right If someone's training in Russia Or Germany Or wherever Yeah That's a very good question I do not know the answer to that Because I know that's Kind of one of the concerns For some of the athletes

That yeah It might be really strict here In the states But in other states Right Is it as strict You know Right

Because it is U.S. anti-doping agency That's USADA Yeah That's a good question I don't know Yeah I'm just saying So what do you think If you That's a good question I don't know Yeah So what do you think?

If you don't think it is I don't know I'll talk for you If there's something fucked up You need to say Just go like this I don't know I guess I just

I can only be concerned With what's under my control Right So then I'm just going to train And I'm going to get as good As I can get And hopefully You know

USADA can take care of the rest but for me to stress about it is is is just time wasted i think for myself well i do know of a case where there was a fighter who told me that there was a guy who was openly dirty as far as what everybody knew and he knew that he was gonna piss hot so he went and did some seminars in another country and just stayed over in another country for just moved around it's like so you see this world-class fighter in these weird little gyms and i was like what is going on over there and the gentleman who told me said listen man he's he's docking drug tests that's what he's doing over there that's crazy yeah look for sure like when you when the kind of like TJ Dillashaw gets popped and you're like, wow, TJ for a world title.

He's getting popped? How many people are getting away with this? How many people got away with this? It's just not worth it. He lost a lot doing that, what he did. Oh, yeah. It's not worth it. It's not worth it.

Ultimately, it's definitely not worth it because his legacy is tainted. But if he got away with it, is it worth it? I mean, how many people got away with it? Here's the question. How many people retired and we never got to see their drug test from 2006, 2008? Like, what were you taking? What were you on? Like back when they used to have those silly weight drug tests Where they would test you at the weigh-ins

Which is basically like an intelligence test Like, hey, you still taking steroids? Or did you stop a couple of weeks ago? And the testing today is so much more sophisticated That's why people are getting popped for EPO And a bunch of things that were hard to find The thresholds Like this is the john jones

thing with the picograms what the the the insignificant amount in terms of like the performance enhancing aspect of it that is in his system like how can they detect that well they can detect that because the machines are way more sophisticated the drug testing is way like he if he had tested if john John Jones had tested Two years ago He would have tested clean Yeah But now It's just

They're just way better Even The smallest Yeah Even if you're taking creatine And that creatine is tainted Yeah Which is a lot of

What these guys Tim Means That was his deal He was taking a supplement That was tainted Quite a few guys Yeah Have legitimately

Just taken over the counter supplements That they thought were clean And they got something just some tiny that doesn't have any effect on their performance but it shows up and it'll show up for months and weeks and john's case like years it's been showing up for like a year and a half it comes on and off yeah and when you're cutting weight that's when it seems to come back that's when it seems to show because your body water's gone you're losing fat you're losing you're losing body weight some of it's stored in fat they think it's very confusing for them they're trying to figure it all out and then all these fucking people online or ranting and raving about picograms and this like the science

experts and they think it's i think it's all bullshit that john's allowed to fight he should be banned for life and like okay, okay, you're not listening. Like he tested negative and then he tested positive a week later. And then he tested negative a week after that. Like what's happening here? Something weird's happening. They're still figuring out for themselves. Exactly.

Yeah. But I'm glad they're figuring it out because now people get to see like, hey, look, John Jones was out for all that time for other problems and then for the drug problems yeah like this is a lot of money that guy lost john probably lost tens of millions of dollars yeah you know he's still young yeah he's still young and he's still you know and hasn't hit his prime yet i don't think no i think also all that knowing that it can all be taken away from you probably met like tempered him yeah like put him in a better place where he realized like i still have this gift of incredible talent i mean he's just a natural born fighter for sure he just knows how to fight some guys they have all the technique all the talent but they don't know how to put it together sean knows how to put it together

yeah he's just he just that's his That's his jam. He just goes out there and he can he just does things on the fly that nobody would ever think of that works yeah, he tries things out it's crazy to watch him train because he's just Super lasered in and focused and there's nothing, you know There could be the building could be getting bombed and it wouldn't matter. He'd just be on the bag working on his technique Yeah, I believe it. It's really cool to watch. to watch yeah well he's he's the outlier right i mean there's a there's special fighters they're outliers in in the sport and from our era it was like anderson silva mighty mouse john jones yeah those are the real outliers where you just watch me just go

jesus christ like anderson when he was in his prime you would watch him and you would watch him set guys up and it's he just it's almost like he had cheat codes like you could just see what they were doing yeah he was just like oh i do this and you do that i do this and you do that okay well i'm gonna do this and i know you're gonna do that and pop there it goes yeah and he would just figure guys out. It was wonderful to watch, though. I feel like he opened up a door for all of the rest of us. I feel like with any good fighter, when you watch them fight, it opens up a door in your own mind.

Like, oh, that's possible. I can do that. And so I feel like with Anderson Silva did that a lot with his movement, with his head movement, with his variety of punches and kicks and the angles at which they came in from. I don't know. I feel like Anderson Silva did that. I feel like Ronda did that with her judo. I feel like Machida did that with his karate.

And then I can go down the list of everybody, but I feel like it kind of like goes in cycles, you know. And I mean, it's great for me because I can watch them and I can implement new things. I feel like that's why I've been able to be in the game for so long and still continue to grow and evolve because I get to watch other people and the things that they do and like add that to my tool list, you know. Yeah, it changes the expectation of what's possible right i think with mighty mouse that was one of the best examples of that because when i would watch mighty mouse fight i would be like show me someone who's better someone show me someone who's ever been better than this guy like i've never seen anybody move better than this guy like he doesn't get hit or if he gets hit it's rare like every three or four fights someone

catches him like john maraga caught him with a good straight punch like that that's like that was the last i remembered i'd like to see him run it back with suhudo for sure you know that was such a close fight and very close fight and he kind of so blew my mind how like nonchalant he was about it all like at the end he's like yeah whatever but that's him dj is just a special guy yeah and he's another one's like couldn't be a nicer guy yeah like if you didn't know that he was uh one of the best fighters that's ever walked the face of the planet he would go oh this friendly guy he seems he's so nice and normal. He talks like he's articulate. He doesn't talk like a mean person. It's a great example of something that's contrary to the stereotypes that people think of when they think of cage fighters.

Someone who's fighting, which is a weird word, right? Do you do cage fighting? You do that stuff? Yeah, like you're a cage fighter? You do UFC? Yeah. You do UFC. Yeah. That's if you're fighting for Bellator. stuff? Yeah, like you're a cage fighter? You do UFC? Yeah. You do UFC. Yeah. That's if you're fighting for Bellator.

People are like, what's that? Is that like UFC? What is that? What's Bellator? Yeah, cage fighting. Times are changing, though. It's great. I love the competition.

I think that's great that there's more options out there for the fighters. Oh, for sure. Yeah, I think it's very important. I think it's very important. What's interesting, too, about this sport is that it's one of the only sports where you can go back from 1993 to 2019 and you could see massive evolution. Yeah. There's no other sport like that. If you go back and watch boxing from 93, you're watching great boxing, world-class boxing.

You could take someone from 93 and put them into 2018. They would fit perfect. Yeah, you think so? Roy Jones Jr.? Shit. 93 and put him into 2018 like they would fit perfect right like roy jones jr shit roy jones jr when he's in his prime today everybody'd be fucked today they'd be fucked he was just something special it's just like boxing mentality is like so old school and you gotta stick to the traditions even it's it's kind of like taboo to see fighters switching stance, which some of the good ones are. How's it taboo? Josh, like my husband, he boxed, you know, and he has a lot.

He had a lot of old boxing coaches that were like, you don't switch stance. Like you stick your stance and you perfect that stance. Those people are out of their fucking mind. You've watched Terrence Crawford. That's one of the things he does so brilliantly. He is as good as a southpaw as he is orthodox. And it's one of the reasons why does so brilliantly He is as good as a Southpaw As he is Orthodox And it's one of the reasons why he's so difficult to solve Because if you think you've got to read

On his timing And then all of a sudden you're looking at a right jab Instead of a left jab Maybe it's just that I watch MMA And am more focused on MMA Than I am in boxing But when I just From having my husband Help me out and all this stuff,

that's what he's saying is going to be the biggest evolution or what has started to evolve in boxing is that they are realizing, okay, you can use both sides now, and that's going to trick them even more. Well, Marvin Hagler was amazing at that. It was one of Marvin Hagler's best skills, that he could fight southpaw as well as he could fight orthodox. Hagler was one of the greatest fighters of all time, know and he was a champion in the 80s oh okay you don't know marvin haggler no how dare you michelle karate hottie you don't know the marvelous one i never even really watched boxing until i met my husband really yeah that's crazy well he introduced you to something awesome. Yeah, yeah. It's a good time right now to watch boxing.

Mm-hmm. You know, there's so many good boxers. Yeah. I think that's one of the things that he wants me to really work on in order to get my game to the next level is my boxing, you know? Because my kicks are good.

My wrestling's, you know, getting better. My jiu-jitsu's good. And if I can put together my punches, we'll be okay, ready to get that belt. Karate is an interesting martial art, too, that you are really good at because you have an excellent ability to use that front leg that most people don't. You have an awesome front leg side kick, great front leg roundhouse kick. And when you do that, I see that in your fight sometimes.

People are like, oh, I've got to adjust to this. Because it's like a jab. Yeah. But a jab that could fuck you up. Like a jab that can knock you out. Yeah, I think, I mean, I guess, like, oh, that too, my point firing days when everybody was bigger than me, it didn't matter. Because it was by belts. Right.

And so I was always a smaller one. And trying to get the point off first, I would just use my front leg and kick it out there as fast as I could. But I feel like my kicks have blended to being, I've adopted them as jabs, you know? Yeah. Yeah, I love it. I think it helps,

because then it kind of neutralizes the height difference. Do you train a lot with Winklejohn? I do. Winklejohn, he was an excellent fighter, a really good kickboxer, and really good at both styles too, like leg kick style, but also good at like he had karate techniques as well. And he was very good at those transitions between those straight kicks and punches as well. He was very good at those transitions between those straight kicks and punches as well.

You know, that's the thing where a lot of people get confused. It's like a no man's land between kicking and punching with people who are kicking specialists. And you see it like even with elite fighters like Raymond Daniels as he's coming up in his kickboxing career. It took a while before he could make that smooth transition between kicking and punching. before he could make that smooth transition between kicking and punching. Because Raymond would be on the outside, and he was a world-class top of the food chain karate point fighter. Yeah. And then got into kickboxing.

And as long as he was at a distance, he was fucking people up. But in the transition, the no-man's land between the kicking and the punching, he looked awkward. It took a while before he sort of... So some guys like Joseph Valtellini and nikki holtzkin they sort of expose that that gap the no man's land gap that's a problem a lot of kickers have yeah they have that problem with the the gap from the kicking to the punching yeah for sure i think that's one of the things that i had to that was one of the things that i had to really work on and i think because because I enjoy grappling and jiu-jitsu that I went straight from kicking to clench up grappling. And I kind of skipped the boxing part of it.

How much boxing are you doing now? Quite a bit, actually. Is that your main focus? Yeah, especially off camp. We don't have any game plans to work on. We're working boxing and wrestling. Now, when you say you're working boxing, are you just sparring, boxing, and hitting pads, boxing? Or are you trying to implement that into MMA training?

I would say both. We're not sparring. We're not sparring right now boxing um but i was working on your hands working on the hands working on the footwork and then so we'll just do strictly boxing but then we'll do like you're saying the transitions so kicks to boxing and boxing to kicks and then boxing to takedowns yeah having things to do when you don't have to think right knowing exactly what to do oh i'm in this position there goes the knee i'm in this position now i'm throwing a punch when you see

someone going like i gotta do this uh i gotta think yeah you know the the the those transitions it's it's very it's a that when you're in higher higher pressure situations that's when those transitions are the most awkward when you don't have like a conditioned response. Yeah, and I think that's the biggest thing that I've really been able to work on is the blending of all of it. I feel like so much of us, so many of us, we train specific boxing, specific kickboxing, jiu-jitsu, wrestling, whatever, but we never really blend it together. And I think that's the most important part. Well, that's why George was so great. George St. Pierre was so amazing at transitions.

Like, you never knew what he was going to do. He was so unpredictable. He was going to punch you or he was going to take you down. So everyone's worried about everything. You didn't know what was coming. Yeah, that's why i always encourage fighters like even if you're a really good striker man you gotta attempt takedowns you gotta keep people honest because otherwise people are just going to settle in and never worry about your takedowns and then

they have an extra degree of comfort with their striking and you can get caught with stuff you wouldn't get caught with otherwise yeah and there's there's just, I just feel like in MMA, you have so many opportunities. Why would you limit yourself to those opportunities? Yeah. I remember one of my fights, I was fighting this girl who was like a 10-time boxer in MMA. And so I'm like, oh, this girl's coming into my world.

I'm going to show her what's up. But then, and I was beating her the whole first round, kicking her out, keeping her out with kicks, keeping her out with punches. I remember going back to my corner and saying, man, this is too easy. Like, I'm, you know, I'm piecing this girl up. And just me saying that to myself, I think something in my head switched, but I went back out and ended up, I think what happened was I told myself, okay, you're piecing her up with what you know. Go out there and beat her at her own game.

Oh, Jesus. Did you talk to your corner about that? I think it was just like a mental, like, this is too easy. I'm going to make it more challenging on myself. I didn't tell my corner dad. It was just like, you know how sometimes when you're in a fight, you have like a million thoughts that go through your mind in a split second. And that was one of them.

I'll show this bitch what's up. Yeah, and at her own game, which is stupid because it's MMA. So I stood in front of her, and then she cracked me, and I saw stars, and I stood in front of her, and I didn't take her down, and I was trying to exchange with her and then she cracked me and then and i saw stars and i stood in front of her and i didn't take her down and i was trying to you know exchange with her and she cracked me again and you know i was waiting for her to stop so it could be my turn and she never stopped and and i got tko'd you know but um i mean lesson learned but i was just so stubborn in it you know in my thoughts that i was like i'm gonna beat her at her own game what are you talking about you're fighting mma right i was so mad at myself after the fact because um i just i beat myself i just beat

myself when i went back out there well that's that old adage you win or you learn and you obviously this is something that stills in your mind to this day you learned yeah but that's that old adage you win or you learn and you obviously this is something that stills in your mind to this day you learned yeah but that's a part of what makes a champion like that desire to show i can beat you anywhere yeah that that crazy belief in yourself like oh fuck this bitch upstanding those thought processes are so crazy because the reason why you get so good in the first place is because you love challenges. And you want to do this difficult thing. So you literally made it more difficult.

Yeah. I don't know why I would do that. But that is exactly why I continue to fight now. I think I was nervous coming into the UFC because I was coming up from 105. I was talking to my husband and saying, what are we doing? Do you think I can make the jump up and still hang with these girls? Would you be fighting at 105 if the UFC had a 105? I don't know.

I guess it would depend. I think it would have to be worth it. Just to make the cut? Yeah. I feel like my last couple of cuts at 105 were pretty brutal like um you're not supposed to ask a woman falling out your eyelashes were falling yeah like i was so dehydrated that my like my you know how your eyes sink in or in yeah like i remember wiping wiping my eye and just looking down and a whole row of eyelashes were on my arm.

That's like when people get syphilis. Teeth start falling out and shit. I was sickly for sure. Wow. They had to check your vitals after weigh-ins and the doctor wouldn't release me because he couldn't find my heartbeat for like an hour. He couldn't find your heartbeat because you're so dehydrated yeah whoa so um i just think that also that last cut was it was like i i did it too quickly i think when you walk around that um like 132 134 and when you make the cut down with 115 how slowly do you do it I usually have that eight week fight camp and I do like pound pound and a half two pounds a week yeah so for you to get to 105 yeah don't do that that sounds that sounds

crazy well back when the last time I fought at 105, when I was fighting at 105, I was probably walking around at like 25. Still. That's 20 pounds of weight for a 100-pound person. That is 20% of your body weight. That's a significant amount to drain yourself. I mean, if you think about a welterweight losing 20 pounds, it's a good cut. But an atom weight person, that's so much weight i know i feel i feel so much healthier now i feel like when i'm in camp i can focus on training yeah and having

good energy you know going at going 100 rather than going 70 and then going to do more cardio so i absolutely feel like more healthier i feel like i've been able to put muscle on I feel like I'm stronger And just happier Happier training Yeah well you're seeing that from so many fighters And that's one of the reasons why To go back to this one FC thing I love what they're doing

That they've eliminated weight cutting They do hydration tests on people They make sure you're not cutting any weight And I think the UFC is missing the boat They want to test for steroids which is fantastic 100 i'd support that they should test hydration too this weight cutting weight cutting is nothing but it's just sanctioned cheating that's all it is i am you're not 115 pounds right but everybody is going to cut down to 115 and then you're probably going to go back up to

like what do you when you fight when you get into the cage what do you think you weigh this last time i got back up to 128 yeah see that's what you really weigh like why is everybody saying she's fighting at 115 she's not fighting at 115 like when you say tyron woodley fights at 170 no he doesn't no he weighs 170 you know kamaru usman he's not 170 he weighs 170 for a very small time what maybe it's just kind of like the old school mentality or just the the idea of that being the last challenge that you go through before you step into the octagon that i enjoy and not that i enjoy it but again we're going back to challenges and it's like one of those things like all right like you know take yourself to this point and if you can

get through that without breaking then mean you can go to battle right i don't know there's just something to that for me um i see what you're saying so it's another challenge like you have a whole there's a series of challenges there's training there's the mental preparation and there's the weight cut all these things are together and and i feel like that's like the last step it's like you know it's a battle within yourself is that the death star on your forearm what is that this is it looks like the death star from a distance i was trying to figure it out it It's an actual silhouette of my husband and I. Oh, that's so cool. So it's a circular silhouette with the mountains and the trees.

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. That's really cool. That's very unique. Thank you. It does kind of look like the Death Star, though. It does. From a distance, I was like, should we have a fucking Star Wars game?

Actually, I don't remember the last time I've seen Star Wars, but yeah. So the the the weight cut though the only problem with it is it's bad for you yeah i mean i understand that i don't cut much i probably cut four pounds of water weight oh that's when i hit when i like when i show up fight week i'm probably like three like four or five pounds off right but if you just ate normal wouldn't you be healthier like if if instead of getting down within four pounds of the weight, like because you're going to go up to 128 the day you fight. Right. So that's an additional 13 pounds.

Where's that coming from? It's coming from somewhere. Yeah. Right. So you're doing something. I understand the thought process. I was talking to one of the doctors about it in my last fight because he was like, so strange that you go through all of this just to be the same weight the next day. I know.

Doctors are so smart. And I just looked at him like, that is strange. It's fucking stupid is what it is. It really is. For the sport. Yeah. Not you personally, but it's what you have to do if you want to compete in the sport. I guess just because I've been doing it for so long.

And in my head, it's like, you know, there are only a couple of things you have to do as a fighter. Cutting weight is one of them. If you can't do that, then, you know, it is hard. I feel it's a process that you have to go through and you have to be mentally prepared to go through it. And if you do it right, it should only be water that you're cutting, though that's silly to do i don't know how it's it's silly to do yeah it's not good it's never good to just cut that water it's just not it's not good for you but if you do it if you if you do it intelligently where you're not cutting too much weight it's not that bad yeah but so many people are doing these brutal 30 pound weight cuts

i just i feel like at that point it, it's not a benefit for you. Like some, for some people, they are the bigger person coming into the, to the yactic on the next day, but you're going to reach a certain point where cutting weight is not a benefit for you. Maybe, you know, that's, if you can do it and you pull it off, especially if you're young and you figure out how to do it correctly and replenish your electrolytes, you know, it is an advantage to be bigger but the reality is you're what whatever weight class that is that's not what you weigh you don't really weigh that much

you weigh it's like it's crazy like you should be it should be about skill versus skill it shouldn't be about who's got the best scientists i agree so i mean so what do you think you think androge would still be a 115er no chance no chance not a fucking chance in hell no no no she's bigger too she fucking struggles yeah she struggles for 115 but then you've got valentina it's like i think that weight class it's it's really interesting, right? When you're talking about weight classes, if you're talking about the difference between 105 pounds and 115 pounds, it might only be 10 pounds, but it's a giant percentage of your body weight. Yeah.

And then you look at MMA in the men's division and you have, you know, 155 and you have 170. You have that 15 pound gap. That's a big gap. It's a giant gap yeah i think this should be every 10 pounds every 10 pounds for men and for women i think there's a real good argument that should be every five pounds but if dana heard this he would find whatever hairs he's got left to start plucking them out he said tell rogan to shut the fuck up plucking his eyebrow hairs he doesn't even like the idea of a 165 i'm'm like, God damn, that's a no-brainer. Yeah, there's plenty of fighters out there that are willing to fight

and just give them a place to do so. And guys who would be champions because that's their real natural weight class. In-betweens. I think that what one FC is doing in terms of weight cutting is the way to do it. But the other side is they're not doing the same thing that USADA is doing in terms of steroids so they are able to take 100 100 talk to guys who compete over there and it's like yeah i mean there's some some testing so would you rather fight somebody that's heavier than you or somebody that's taking steroids it's very good question because if they were not just taking steroids but also taking epo there's a lot of different shit that people can take you know they can give you more like epo is a scary one because the person has more gas in

their tank to beat you yeah they have more they can hit you they can take shots better they can recover better and then they can come after you and then they they'll have more gas in the tank then maybe they could put you away i'd rather fight somebody that was heavier than me and depleted from cutting water weight than somebody that was taking steroids or for a woman i think for sure for sure i think there's for women for women there's a real argument that once someone has ever taken steroids that you've altered your chemistry enough and your physiology enough that you're forever going to have some sort of an advantage so then there's nothing you can do about that.

Well, I mean. Maybe deduct a point before you even get in the octagon. That's not even good enough. So many chaos people, right? Yeah, that's true. How often do you spar? I would say heavy sparring once a week. Once a week.

So we do MMA grappling on Mondays. Tuesdays is a heavy sparring. It's the 16-ounce let's throw down sparring. Wednesdays is wrestling. Thursdays is MMA glove sparring. So it's kind of more just accuracy, like light on the striking, heavy on the grappling. And then Fridays, technical work, technique, stuff like that. Now, you're at a gym.

You're at Jackson Winklejohn, which is one of the best gyms on the planet Earth, but also a gym that's filled with savages. I mean, there must be a lot of chest bumping and a lot of people that are trying to test people. And there's got to be girls who are there who look at a girl like you and say this girl's where i want to be yeah and i mean i've talked to males who train there say man let me tell you something there's some russian cats that just show up out of nowhere and try to take your head off yeah and they go outside and smoke

some cigarettes and drink some vodka. Are they smoking cigarettes? Some of them. That's weird. Fighters are crazy. You get the funniest, coolest stories from meeting fighters all around the world. Jackson's is a shark tank. You're not going there to find Nemo. You're finding Jaws.

Yes, exactly. You have to have a good set of skills before you get there in order to kind of hold your own right we do actually have an amateur team right now that is run by Joey Viseñor and he's done an amazing job with the amateur team and so we've kind of been able to separate the classes in that sense where Joey is kind of overseeing all of the amateur fighters and he's building these amateur fighters. And when he feels like they're ready to come and train with the pros,

he'll give them the go or do a trial run where they train with us for one week and see if they're ready for a higher level of competition. And then if they are, then they stay. And if if they're not then they come back to the amateur team and and it's it's actually worked out quite well oh that's great so do they start people from fresh like no skills at all some so there's classes there for total beginners uh yeah it's crazy if you ever like go into the gym and see gym and see like when you see like amateurs or people that have like zero training spar versus like professional fighter spar. Yeah. It's crazy.

It almost looks more dangerous. Yeah, it is more dangerous. I would not want to be in the cage with some of those people because you just don't know where the punches or kicks are coming from. And they're all coming full blast. Exactly. A hundred percent. You don't have any control. Yeah. Well, I always said that about jiu-j from. And they're all coming full blast. Exactly. 100%. You don't have any control. Yeah.

I always said that about jiu-jitsu. Jiu-jitsu is the same thing. The last thing you want to do is grapple with a really strong guy who's about to get his blue belt. Yeah. Oh, geez. Yeah. It just spaz out on you.

Everybody's ego gets in the way. I think that's why they match up high level with low level, don't you think? Sure. So someone can control you and calm you down. yeah i love jujitsu i can't wait to you know to get my um black belt in jujitsu and uh i think it's kind of brought me back to my more traditional background where you know there's a little bit more structure when it comes when it comes to that the belts and things yeah are you training with the gi? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Now, how much of that do you use a lot of grips? Like, do you grab collars and sleeves and things like that? I try. You do? I try to force myself outside of my comfort zone because I am so used to grabbing wrists, grabbing shoulders, and, you know, right at the crick of the elbows and stuff like that. And I find myself going for those grips because that's just what I've done for the last decade.

But because I am stepping into their world, I want to learn the grips and I want to learn all of that stuff. Yeah, I mean, it's great if you want to compete in jiu-jitsu with a gi. But I think for MMA, I think the best benefit of jiu-jitsu with a gi but i think for mma i think the best benefit of jujitsu with a gi for mma is defensive for submissions because you get caught in things you can't power out of them because it's not slippery and i'm i'm slippery like i i love no gi because i can slip out of things and i'll just wait until i have a little bit of space. And then I'm out. Yeah, I'm just out.

And I'm just out. But I can't do that in Gi. Yeah. So what I'll do a lot of times is I'll go train Gi and I'll do the technique class. And then when it's time to go do live rolling, I just take my Gi off. And then I go no Gi. That's smart. So that way everything you're doing is applicable in MMA.

Because one of the things we used to see in the early days of MMA you see these gi world champions like elite level world champions and they'd fight in MMA and they lost all of their technique because everything was collars and sleeves and pants and everything was grabbing things yeah whereas instead of now they try to go to cable grips or overhooks and underhooks and they're all confused they feel like their technique is off yeah and they would be like a blue grips or overhooks and underhooks, and they're all confused. Their technique is off. And they would be like a blue belt or a purple belt. World champions. Yeah, I think it's great.

My professor now, so I'll be rolling with his wife or some of his students. It's weird because they're getting me ready for my fights, but I'm also getting them ready for worlds and and stuff like that so depending on who's getting who ready is what he'll call out if we're going and i'm you know there's i'm sitting in their guard um he'll tell them that they have to get active they're like he'll straight up say if she was fighting you should just be punching the face you got to move you got to do something you know so i think it's good just to give them a different perspective as well have you ever watched combat jujitsu uh i've seen a couple but where they get to slap them in the face and stuff like that yeah i've seen some of it that's interesting because it shows you where there are these gaps where like hey this is an mma but if it was yeah you'd be getting pounded

on right here like you can't just hang out. There's moments in jiu-jitsu that are unrealistic in self-defense situations or in a fight situation. Yeah, and that's where I get frustrated, but it's good. I need that frustration because I'll be in a position and in my head I'm like, I could just punch you right now in the face, but I can't because we're grappling. So your schedule that you're laying out, is this the schedule of Jax and Winklejohn? Yeah. This is just their schedule. Yeahax and Winklejohn? Yeah. Is this just their schedule? Yeah, that's what I do in the mornings at the gym.

So who sets up, like, when you're in camp, when you have to do, you know, you've got a fight, it's 12 weeks from now. Who sets up your schedule? I think what we do is we get a fight scheduled, and then we get all the coaches in together. And so my jiu-jitsu coach, I go to Gracie Baja for jiu-jitsu. So jiu-jitsu, wrestling, you know, Coach Jackson, Coach Wingo John, Joey Villasenor, and my husband. And my husband's with me all the time, so he kind of oversees everything. And we just sit down and we talk about all the things we need to get together i do

one private with coach jackson a week i do two privates with coach wink a week i do a private with uh coach via senor and then i do all those in the morning and then i i and then i work out at my house as well and then i do jujitsu what do you do at your house um it depends on the day sometimes we do simulations we'll do like round simulations sometimes it's just hardcore cardio sometimes it's just technical do you have something set up in your garage or something yeah that's nice we got a home gym we got a we got a uh clear light sauna we got a fuel health um what's a clear light sauna it's like it's an infrared sauna and then we have a cold plunge. Oh, nice.

So you can get something in at home. Everything. If we needed to, we could do our whole camp out. Oh, that's great. But I really enjoy being at the gym around my teammates and around my coaches and just pulling energy from them. Sure, sure. What about strength and conditioning? How often are you doing that?

I do more strength and conditioning when often are you doing that i do strength uh i do more strength conditioning when i'm out of camp so like right now i'm doing strength and conditioning like three four times a week uh but when i'm in camp it depends on my body and it depends on what i'm needing at the time but i usually once or twice a week and then i run just for maintenance just for like med like meditative running you know nothing hard so like longer distance but slower yeah but not even too long like three minutes three miles yeah nothing crazy that hill that jackson loves to throw people up what is that all about that looks crazy it is crazy it's um to throw people up.

What is that all about? That looks crazy. It is crazy. Coach Jackson always says, if the mountain can't beat you, nobody can beat you. It's like Mother Nature. Mother Nature is a mother.

There's something about that steep-ass hill, too. You watch everybody, the whole team running up it. It's crazy because, well, there's that one, but then Coach Wink has another one, and that one's just insane. You can't sprint up it. You crawl up it. Really? Yeah, it's crazy because well there's that one but then coach wink has another one and that one's just insane you can't sprint up it you like crawl up it and it's really yeah it's ridiculous how steep is it it's so steep you can't run you have to like you have to basically the first three sprints there's 10 sprints to the top and then you and then you slowly jog back down

because it's really steep but the first three you really can't sprint up but you kind of have to bear crawl up the mountain as fast as you can as fast as you can but the one um the hill of tears is crazy because they call it the hill of tears yeah it's like it goes up it goes up and then it goes up so like when you think you're almost there it like cranks up even harder and then you have to get to the top and um it'll test you for sure it can break you well that camp is known for its endurance like the fighters that come out of that camp are known for having great cardio yeah and how often does jackson make everybody or winkle john make everybody do those those hills it just depends um we used to do them as team as teams quite a bit

as a team quite a bit on the weekends but you know coach jackson coach is this it right here yep oh that's me that's my dog my my dobie It doesn't look like anything really. Oh, it looks like it to me. I'm used to running hills. I know what it's like. That looks terrible. Looks like that. Yeah, that's what it feels like. Yeah.

It's amazing how gravity is one of the best things to work with. Like get a good pitch, good steep angle, and try to run up that. It's one of the best things for strength and conditioning for just conditioning your lungs and your your ability to recover yeah yeah i i i love it i think that um again it's another one of those things that can can really break you and uh i think it's just like a a theme like a consistent theme in fighting is is will you break you know can if you break then you're not meant for it you know or or maybe you are and you just need to to heal up and go back at it and try it again but when you in terms of your mental endurance i mean that's what we're talking about, right? We're talking about fortitude and your spirit, your indomitable spirit.

If you go back to when you first started fighting versus now, like your tolerance must be through the roof. Like what you can tolerate, what you can endure, and your belief in yourself. All that stuff, I feel, evolves just like your skills do. Yeah, 100%. all that stuff i feel evolves just like your skills do yeah 100 and and but it's crazy too because you know we all have our our own separate journeys and i feel like when you first start fighting just like when you're a kid and you jump off of things and you you're fearless because you don't know what it feels like to get hurt and then you break your leg and then you're like well i'm never doing that again you know i feel like it's the same in fighting. Like when you see a lot of amateur fighters or new fighters, they go out there and they just do whatever because they're fearless.

They've never been knocked out. They've never been hit. They've never broken anything. And so they're just going to go out there and be fearless. And then they get knocked out or submitted. And then the next time they go out, they're not as free. And then the next time they go out, they're not as free. And I think the true test is to see if you can deal with those challenges and allow it to make you grow versus petrify you and make you go backwards.

Do you do any psychological training? Do you have a mental coach or a hypnotist or anything along those lines? I do. I have a sports psychologist, Dr. Shandon, and he's been working with me for my last three fights, and I've won all three fights, and I think that's a big reason why, for sure. Yeah, I think that is a giant overlooked factor, and some people get along great without it.

But could they be even better with it? Absolutely. Yeah, I think so as well. Absolutely. There's so much that goes into fighting that I think people don't see. I think it's just like with anything in life. How long it takes to make a movie versus the actual movie. And what goes into that 15 minutes of a fight that nobody even knows

you know not just eight weeks but your entire you know training before that you know for me it's you know I've been doing martial arts since I was 10 and fighting professionally for over 10 years and so it's an accumulation of all of those things but each fight presents its own problem and if you're not mentally prepared for it if you're not prepared physically if you're not prepared like spiritually emotionally like hormonally if that's even a word everything has to line up that one night those 15 minutes or 25 minutes in order for you to win. And you can definitely beat yourself before you step into the octagon. So what kind of stuff do you work on with your psychologist without giving too much away?

I talk to him about this all the time because it's like my secret sauce, right? But how he explains this is everybody knows what you're supposed to do but you have to put in the work just like physically you have to put in the work like i can sit up here i can tell you what i do but it's not going to make a difference unless you actually put in the work to to to strengthen your mind mentally um but um we Um, but, um, we do a lot of, um, so your opponent, it's not like you can practice sparring them because you've never fought them before. Um, and so how he explains it to me is it's just a repetition, you know, of the mind. And, um, so when, so you just have to really i think explore your imagination and um for us we we practice the fight in our head and um some days are harder than others sometimes i i win the

fight in the first 10 seconds of the of the round. Sometimes it's all five rounds and it's a war and I win that way. But you have to see yourself going through every different scenario. And there are millions in MMA. And you just practice them over and over and over. So it's essentially just going through that? Or do you prepare your mindset? prepare your mindset? What we do is for me, I have a set of

power words is what he calls them. Power words. Want to tell us what they are? And so, yeah, I can. Confidence. Flow. Vicious.

I'm trying to see. Mom champ. Mom champ? Yeah. Because you want to be the first mom champ. Yes, sir. Healthy. healthy there are a couple of others as well but the one word is is not just a word it's like a whole

thought process so when i say one word it it it into an entire feeling, if that makes any sense. And so instead of having to have a conversation in my mind, which takes way too long, I just say confidence and it takes me where I need to be. And eventually, you shouldn't even have to do that. You should just be in the moment and just allow your mind to connect with your body. Do you do any meditating at all? Yeah. I mean, I would say it's kind of a meditative. I would say it's more of a practice than it is a meditation because I'm not trying to clear my mind.

I'm really trying to focus on something specific. Right. But outside of that, you don't meditate? I wouldn't say so. Maybe in my runs. Sometimes when I run, that's when I clear my mind. What about you? Yeah, I've been doing it a little bit, but most of what I do, I do when I get in the tank, float tank.

I like float tank. Do you use one? I have before. It feels like you're floating in space. Yeah, it's amazing. Does Jackson's have one? No. They should have one.

We should, huh? Except you wouldn't want to go in there after God. It's kind of disgusting. We have a hot sauna at the gym. There's tons of people. There's tons of people. There's tons of people, so it gets good use. Yeah. No, I'm sure.

The hot sauna, though, is different than a float tank because a float tank is so personal. It's just one little in there. You're naked. Uh-huh. They showed me yours, and it felt hotter than the ones that I've ever done. It's the right temperature. Is it? Yeah.

Okay. 94 degrees that's what it should be yeah it should be the same as the surface of your skin as your body temperature right yeah because it was crazy i remember doing it one time and i kind of drifted off and i remember almost waking up and feeling like i was like floating in space yeah sure almost like kind of panicked because i i didn't have a sense of where my body was. Yeah. That's what triggers these weird psychedelic states.

But if you can find one and use it on a regular basis, it works great with visualization. A lot of athletes, UFC and other sports as well, they use it for visualization. They'll think about passes, like a pass yeah and then watching someone catch it they'll they'll visualize things and go through the the technique in their head and i've done that with jujitsu as well i've done that with certain techniques that i was really trying to learn you could do it as if you're rolling you know like you're you're just like picturing your body going through the different positions yeah yeah. Yeah. That's basically what we do with the mental training. And it probably just take it up a notch in the float tank.

Yeah, I'm sure. But a lot of times, like when I meet up with Dr. Shandon, we meet up at noisy places like like starbucks or you know or at a coffee shop or something like that and it's because he want he that that life is always going to have distractions oh that's interesting and um you know you need to be able to focus with distraction especially me like there's so many things going on in my life with being a mother and a wife um that sometimes i can use the distractions as an excuse to justify why I'm not getting things done or this or that. Right.

And so that's something that I've really been working hard at is to not use those as excuses, but more so to allow the distractions to happen and choose to stay focused anyways. There's quite a few women's mma fighters now but it's still small in comparison to men when you meet young girls that look up to you do you recognize that you have you have a very there's a very critical and it's a very small role there's an in small in terms of a small amount of people providing that role yeah as role models to young kids that are thinking about fighting when a young girl meets you like oh my god it's the karate hottie like is it is it weird

to you like what is that feeling like to you when you meet a young girl and you say oh my god this is me when i was 16 yeah it's amazing it really is to to know that just through my story that i've touched people's lives you know um i i get approached a lot by by parents you know that are happy that i'm pursuing what what i'm pursuing even being a mom you know so um I think that's really cool just because I feel like when I was pregnant um how old's your daughter now she's eight yeah so when I thought she was much younger for some reason I know she's a shrimp that's why we saw the pictures when she was younger yeah she's itty bitty i i i this might be too much information but um after i had my daughter she's been to every single one of my fights um and uh i had my first fight back when i was 10 months old and i was still breastfeeding i like breastfed her when she was 10 months old

not when you were 10 months old sorry when she was 10 wow you had a fight while you were breastfeeding yeah that was your first fight my first fight back oh okay how many fights did you have before your daughter oh i had a good amount i'd say i don't even you've been fighting for 10 years professionally 12 years 12 years yeah a good amount i was 25. I was 25 when I was pregnant. But, yeah, I just remember being pregnant and being, everybody talks about, like, postpartum depression, but I was really depressed during my pregnancy. I mean, don't get me wrong.

I loved being pregnant, and there was a lot of memories that I had with her being in my belly and me feeling her and all of this and that, that, um, those moments I, I, I treasure forever, but I was depressed. Like I couldn't do what I wanted to do. It's not like I could go out and, you know, if I was feeling bad, I couldn't just throw the gloves on and go out and spar and hit somebody in the face, you know, you know, normal things you do to relieve stress. And I just, I watched everybody get better. And I watched everybody progress and fight.

And it, you know, it ate me alive. And I just, there was just so much uncertainty and so much unknown. Was my body going to be the same? You know, was I going to even want it? Was I going to have time to do it? Um, there was just so much that I didn't know. And so I was, I was really down then. And I, um, I get a lot of moms that approach me and they tell me that because I went back and continued to pursue my dream that they did too, you know? And I think that, um, that's cool. did too you know and I think that um that's cool that is cool now when you say you had your first fight back 10 months that's that's a really for people that don't recognize that's a very short

amount of time to rebound from giving birth and then get yourself back in shape and then get yourself into fighting shape where you're like I'm ready to take a fight and then train for the fight I mean that is a incredible process to go through in 10 months. It was crazy. It really was. My body was, when you, when you have a baby, your, your bones kind of like drift apart from each other and, um, you gain weight. And I, after I had my daughter, I found out that I, well, during my pregnancy, I got gestational diabetes. And I gained like 50 pounds. I gained a lot. Like I looked like the blueberry on Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.

But, yeah. How long did it take you to bounce back? Were you in the gym again? I probably stayed with my daughter for the first three months that I had her, and I just wanted to be a mom. I just wanted to be with her, and I wanted to nurture her and enjoy my time with her. And I think it was after three months where I was like,

I want to kick some butt. Yeah, I want to relieve some stress. I want to kick some butt. Yeah, I want to relieve some stress. And Coach Wink and Coach Jackson and all my teammates were so supportive. And so I would come into the gym and I'd have my diaper bag in one hand and my gym bag in the other and my car seat. And I'd come into the gym and I'd set it all down and I'd get wrapped up and she'd be in the car seat and she'd chill out. And if she would start to cry, Coach Wink or Coach Jackson would pick her up and then, you know, they'd let me spar. And, you know, she needed to get she needed to eat.

I would go to the room and feed her and then come back. And and we made it work. Wow. Yeah. So I started training for that. Wow. Yeah. So I started training for that. And I really couldn't run to lose the weight because my joints and my bones were, like, all spread apart, you know.

So when you say spread apart, like, what actually does happen? Well, they, I mean, I don't know, like, all the science behind it. But they just say that in order to, like, have the baby, like, everything kind of separates from each other. Your bones, like, loosen and you're like more agile and loose and stuff like that and so you felt it you felt a big difference in the way your body performed yeah for sure i felt it and um so instead of running i would swim from my cardio and that helped me um because it wasn't hard on my joints or anything like that it kind of helped me get back into shape and you kind of just you kind of just go with the flow and figure it out as you go it was really hard i was worried that i was worried that because i got

back into sparring and this and that that um i would go dry like my milk would go dry. But I didn't. My body just figured, okay, this is what you do. And I still produce milk and everything. And it was really sensitive at first to get hit. And then I just got used to the pain. Ow! I don't even have one of those. I'm like, yikes.

Yeah, I would imagine. Yeah, I mean, if your memories, they pump up. Yeah. The body is just so amazing, though. It'll adapt to what it needs to adapt to. And when I trained, I got used to the pain, and then it didn't hurt anymore. And then I would only produce as much as she needed. It was really cool.

Yeah. Now, when you fought 10 months, it's pretty incredible for your daughter to have only seen you fighting. That's got to be crazy too, right? Yeah. I mean, she can't remember when you weren't fighting. Yeah. My mom kicks ass. Yeah.

She has a really cool upbringing i i think like she's just she's she's surrounded by really cool people like she gets to meet the coolest people in the world and they're normal to her because that you know she she sees john and holly and you know that's that's auntie holly to her and so like you know, her expectations for what she can be in life, I think, are way higher, you know. And I think because she's surrounded by people like that, and that's why I like to keep her around because, you know, my dad used to always tell me that we learn through our actions,

our parents' actions. You know, you walk the walk, you don't talk the talk. So I think the best teacher can be my actions. And for her to see it through her own eyes, I can tell her this, this, and this all day, but it's a different story when she comes to a fight with me and I'm the champion, the 105 champion, and I'm defending my belt.

And, you know, I bust my eye open to the point where you can't see it anymore and I lose my belt. And for her to see that, and for her to see that mommy's okay and that failure is a part of life and that I still love what I do and I'm going to still go after my set of dreams because failure is a part of your journey. That's an amazing lesson for a kid to learn. And to see that at a high level growing up with her mother on this giant stage in front of all these people in the crowd and television, that's amazing for her.

Yeah, because people ask me all the time, aren't you afraid that she's going to see you get hurt and this and that's amazing for her. Yeah, and because people ask me all the time, aren't you afraid that she's going to see you get hurt and this and that? But why would you want to shield them from that stuff? I know it's hard. It's a hard pill to swallow. You don't want your children to see you hurt and this and that, but I'd rather her see it and be prepared for it, you know, because life isn't fair.

Life isn't sunshine and rainbows all the time yeah it's challenging for her and challenging things for kids that's how they grow yeah um that that's do you have when you think about your career do you have a timeline where you don't want to fight anymore how would you know i'd like to fight for the belt this year this year yeah you're 30 33 33 so you're in your prime like right now that's like an athlete's prime is like 30 to like 35 36 yeah you're in that zone I'm in the zone I'm confident I feel ready I feel like I've gone through my ups and downs I've I've I've gone through all the steps that are necessary for me to be confident to be a contender. Do you have a timeline when you want to stop? I would give myself,

I don't know, it just really depends on how my career goes, but I would say three to four more years. So you're just in the zone right now now you're just concentrating on getting things done, fighting for a title. You're not thinking about planning the future up. I would like more children. Oh. I know my husband doesn't care for them. My daughter doesn't even care for me to have more children. She'd rather it just be the three of us, you know.

But I would like more children. She'd rather it just be the three of us, you know, but I would like more children. And I have taken steps to figure out what I'm going to do when I retire as a fighter. But I feel like this story needs to, I need to finish out this story for my own sake and for, you know, millions of other parents out there that, you know, have a dream and don't give up on their dream. And just because they have children, it's a longer road, but it's worth it. Yeah, I hear you. Now, when you look at the division, it's an incredible division now. So talent stacked. We don't know what's going to happen with Rose. She's even said she

might retire yeah and she's a very eccentric person i mean she's she's not motivated by money she's very very unusual and i love how honest she is about her emotions yeah i do as well like she's very vulnerable she's very strong i mean, in terms of her ability to broadcast that and tell everybody and project it. So I felt like she was winning that fight. For sure. 100%. Yeah. She got caught with one of the craziest slam KOs we've ever seen.

I mean, you've got to go back to Carlos Newton, Matt Hughes to have a slam KO like that. Yeah. I'm trying to remember. It's one of the best slam KOs of all time. Maybe Tito Ortiz, Evan Tanner, that was another one. I mean, slam KOs are rare. And I love that it came from the smallest division in the UFC. Right.

I think that is just amazing. I'm just so proud of the Starweight division, if I can say so. But I do. I think it's stacked. division if i can say so but i do i think it's stacked i feel like in for my any fight that i have from here on out is championship caliber fight in my opinion yeah um and that's why i want to fight for the belt like i i want to go for the belt so that it's legit like we're fighting for the belt you know and after that it's a championship fight every time. Yeah. When you're looking at that division, you have those two, Jessica Andrade,

and again, we do not know where Rose's head is at, what she wants to do, but if she wanted to have a rematch, they probably would set that up. Then you have Ioana. You have Tatiana Suarez, who's a beast. You have you. Who else in the division stands out to you? Well, Nina. Sure. Tatiana has to get through Nina first.

Sure. And she kind of just riding under the radar. Nina Ansaroff, she's badass. And maybe it's because, and that's a problem that I've had too, is that I'm not as vocal. She just goes in there and does her thing. And I think that a lot of people are overlooking her as well. Sure. And that's why I'm speaking out now.

This is what I want. And Josh always jokes. He says you get 100% of what you don't ask for. So I'm asking for it. It's what I want. But yeah, there's Wade Lee. I know that they're trying to pump her. and she's really good coming out of China. And then, you know, obviously, Tisha, Claudia.

And even the girls outside of the top ten are dangerous. It's a stacked division, and it can go. It's probably the most talented division i would say so for sure technically and heart driven i would say for sure now what have they said in terms of like what your future holds if they have anything lined up for you when do they say like if they're going to come to you and say hey michelle we'd like you to fight in july or august or september like when would they come to you i just feel like um with the way that the rankings are working if i just take a fight outside of who the who is the current champ i'm going to be in the same spot I've won my last two fights and I've gone down in rankings.

So I really would like to hold off to fight the champion because I feel like any other fight is going to either take me down or keep me in the same spot. So I don't know what they're planning on doing with tatiana and nina but uh if they're trying to give them a shot before me i feel like i want the winner of that and let me and them hash it out to fight for the belt so that would be what you would do is a second choice first choice is you want to fight for the belt second choice is whoever's going to fight for the belt let me fight her let me fight them first because tatiana's only had seven fights nothing against her like she's you

know she's pled her case i have three times as many fights as she does you know i've fought for a belt before i've been a champion before i've gone five rounds before i fought main event before i've worked my way back up give me a shot let me be mom champ yeah you gotta get there before somebody else does right that's what i'm saying because the only other person in that well cats and gano you know i mean i don't know how our eyeballs doing right now i know that was a crazy situation to have all those fights in ufc and never have someone get towed in the eye like that before and obviously you know that's how Winklejohn lost his vision. Yeah, it's scary.

Yeah. It is really scary to think that this is what we do and that there's so many dangers. Yeah. I mean, you're in a wild business, lady. Yeah. But I mean, I wouldn't train it for the world. This is what I love doing. Well, that's awesome.

Then you're in the right spot. Well, obviously, you know, you rank number it for the world. This is what I love doing. Well, that's awesome. Then you're in the right spot. Well, obviously, you rank number seven in the world. It's got to be frustrating, though, that you have gone down in rankings, even though you haven't lost. Absolutely, 100%. I don't know why they would argue for me not to get the belt, to go for it. Everything's there. the storyline is there yeah um it would be you know technique versus strength speed versus power this is you and jessica yeah yeah and um and like i said there were there were millions of people rallying behind

me because they want to see me you that belt, and I do too. I'd love for my daughter to see that dream of mine come true and for her to come in the octagon with me and be holding that belt. I think it would be an amazing moment. Yeah, it's crazy watching kids see their parents win titles and how amazing it is to them it's it's it's a very strange thing to see like that oh my god you know my mom is the champ of the world or my dad's champ we've never seen it obviously from a woman but that my dad's a champ of the world yeah it's it's a very powerful thing yeah so you're in a holding pattern right now essentially yep that's that's that's what we're doing right now. When was your last fight?

Was it April? March or April? March or April? Yeah, we're just working. We're getting better. That's almost a year. No, this April. This April. What am I talking about? Yeah. I fought Karolina Kovalevich.

That's right. And it was a great fight. I wanted the finish, but you can't force those things you know so uh i'm just gonna continue to do what i'm doing and continue to get better and what did you think of her loss to andrage that was crazy i feel like styles make fights and it was the perfect fight for andrage to showcase her knockout power because KK is a pressure fighter. And she instinctively will go forward and throw when she is in danger. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

And she throws hard, obviously. She buckled Io Joanna a couple times. She's dangerous. She's very, very tough. She won against Rose. Yeah. You know, so, but yeah, I think styles make fights. And that's what happened with her in that situation.

What do you think? Andrade is unusually strong. Yeah. Like, freakish. You know, like you see when she grabs ahold of people and then dumps them on their ass. Yeah. She's freakishly powerful.

To be able to, like, hit that single and elevate Rose that way and drop her on her head, when you think about how strong you have to be to do that. It's beautiful. Yeah. It's beautiful to watch. She's a beast. Great technique as well, no doubt about it but man a lot of horsepower that's her bread and butter and i and i figured i honestly i i gave it to rose to win the fight um it only takes a split

second though to lose your focus and to get picked up and slammed down like that and then the fight's over you know for the division it's actually probably good because it's exciting because it mixes things up a bit you have joanna who is the dominant champion for so long rose comes along so beats her and then jessica dumps rose in her head beats her in a fight that she was losing i mean it's like it's a hotbed of talent it's really it's that 115 pound women's division is amazing right now. It really is. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's what I'm wanting.

That's exactly what I want. And in the meantime, we just get better. Beautiful. We train and we get better. I feel like what's going to beat Andrade is, I mean, Rose was doing exactly what she was doing. I think that Rose actually kind of got a bit, just a little bit complacent. And like she's even said it herself. It was a moment of laziness. Elapse.

Yeah. Well, it's easy to say. I mean, it's so hard after the fact to try to figure out what went wrong and why it went wrong. What was going on in her head? But clearly it was not lacing up the legs when she's attacking the kimura she elevated and dumped and and and i'm sure for a lot of her camp she's she was able to do that with um with her teammates and it probably pop off good submissions you know but in the moment of a fight for a championship belt in your hometown against a person that's bread and butter is a pile drive. You know? It just, like, stacks up against you.

Well, good luck trying to find someone as strong as her, outside of maybe Valentina, who she does train with. I mean, but Jessica Andrade is probably one of the strongest women in the 150-pound division. She's so damn strong. So good luck trying to find someone to replicate that in training. Yeah, and you don't train that. You don't train the pile driver.

That's dangerous. That's one of those things that you just, I don't know. She does train Valentina, though, who's one of the strongest women at 125. Valentina's a tank. That's a very strong woman but her style is different too she's a counter fighter and she picks and chooses when she wants to go and if she holds you down striker yeah like her takedowns are are not andrage's takedowns right you know so i don't know we'll see it is one of the things that's so exciting about the sport is

that there are so many different ways to approach it. There's so many different ways. There's your way, karate style. There's Joanna's way, Muay Thai. You know, there's Jessica's way, bulldog, get a hold of you, take her down. And, you know, in a lot of ways, Joanna also showed how to beat Jessica Andrade. You know, she showed how to beat her. I feel the difference with Yolanda and Rose is that Rose, because this is just my opinion, because Rose has shown to have more variety in her toolbox.

She's really good grappling and this and that. I don't think she's as she's not as hesitant to go to the ground i feel like if if if the situation allowed it she would go to the ground and even get a submission on andrage whereas with joanna she knows what she has to do to win and she'll be stubborn in that sense and do that for five minutes for five rounds consistently you know what i mean and i feel like with rose she's she will she'll take risks and and a lot of times it does work for her you know and sometimes it just doesn't yeah and that was just one of those times yeah i just it's interesting to see her talk about fighting in period that she doesn't know if she has that in her anymore, just to be mean to a person, to hurt a person.

I thought that was really interesting. Yeah. I love how honest she is. But I also feel like a big part of her getting the belt was to know that she could, you know, to know that she could take down Ioana, the invincible, you know. And then she did that. And then it was like, all right, well, now I know that I can. And it's kind of like, well, I've already accomplished what I wanted to accomplish. I don't know.

Maybe that's just me thinking out loud of what maybe she might be going through, what might be going on in her mind, you know. Let's say if you fought Andrade and you beat her and you become the champion, would that take a significant amount of motivation away from you or would you have more motivation to defend it so we talk about this too because that's been such a huge goal of mine is to be the the champ um and i i want to say two fights ago we started implementing um visualizations of me being the champ and defending the belt and how that would look like.

This is with your psychologist? Mm-hmm, with my sports psychologist. And, yeah, so that makes the mountain higher. You know, it's like it's not the end game once you get the belt. And Coach Jackson would say that all the time. It's easy to it's not the end game once you get the belt. And Coach Jackson would say that all the time. It's easy to become the champ. It's harder to stay the champ.

It certainly is. Well, listen, Michelle, you're very entertaining. I love watching you fight. I hope if you do get the chance to fight for the title, that I'll be there to call it. And thanks for doing this. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. It's great for everybody to get a chance to get to know you.

Thank you. Michelle Watterson, ladies and gentlemen. Bye, everybody.