The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #67 with Kevin Lee

Episode Date: June 5, 2019

Joe is joined by UFC Welterweight fighter Kevin Lee.

Yeah. Two, one. Kevin Lee, what's up, man? How are you? What's going on? Good to see you smiling. Good to see you happy. Yeah, yeah.

You know, I got to give you some thanks for even for doing it. Before the fight happened, I had kind of already had in my mind, I'm like, okay, it's been a year since we last kind of did this. And it was right after the Barboza fight. And I was like, okay, I'm going to get through the fight and then I'm going to do this. The result wasn't exactly what I what i wanted you know what i mean and it made me hesitant about doing it but i was like this is the story you know what i mean and this is as i said kind of like was upset at myself for a few days eventually i just kind of got over and i'm like you know what i said i was gonna do it before i'm not about to be no sore-ass loser and yeah well like i said i love you whether you win

or lose i'm just you know it's it's a giant part of the game yeah half the game is losing someone has to win someone has to lose if you watch a fight someone's losing yeah it's a draw and i figure it's it's all about how you approach it and how you take it into the next fight and really when you look at it i mean it sucks it really does and i hate it like and it like it's something that boils up inside of me like i go over i replayed a fight a million times in my head and i just hate losing and i hate that feeling but it's just the reality and it's like it's just real life. Just real life.

There's nothing you can do about it. There's nothing you can do once it's over. The only thing you can do is learn and grow. Exactly. And the guy you fought is a stud. I mean, you fought Rafael Dos Anjos. He's a fucking legitimate world champion fighter. Yeah, when I was approached with the fight and kind of start really diving into it and really looking at him,

I was like, I always liked a really really big challenge and that one was definitely one you know he had already had a lot of fights uh that went five rounds he had fought he's fought pretty much everybody you know uh kamaru uzman was his last fight uh kobe covington he had fought khabib he had already fought like a lot of uh top top guys and for five rounds. So I knew what type of challenge it was. It's just I hold myself at high esteem. So I was like, you know what, I'm just ready to do it. You know what I mean? The fight itself was good, but either way, I'm going to learn from it and grow from it.

And I still got a whole long, long road ahead of me. You do have a long road ahead of you. But as we were talking whole long long road ahead of me so you do have a long road ahead of you but you know as we're talking about that long road could sneak up on you real quick and before you know it you know you're 37 years old trying to figure out if you still want to fight yeah that's that's how it happens to guys i've seen it happen to guys yeah so i feel like if you approach it smart you know what i mean it could still get done which is what i'm trying to do right uh i kind of already knew that I needed to make some changes and do some things different, even before this fight and before my last one, too. But, you know, I just was like, OK, I'm going to just get through this one and then I'll do it.

And now I'm going to get through this one and then I'll do it. But, you know, that's kind of a big wake up call to just like, all right, it's time to get outside of the comfort zone and and kind of do something different and and kind of do what i already know i gotta do what did you think was going to happen in the fight and what was surprising i didn't think that he would be able to keep the the pace for sure um but what surprised me was how smart he was and how uh he beat me tactically more than anything is you know when i was I was going, he wasn't doing, you know, and he kind of he controlled the pace better than I thought he was going to. You know, I thought once I set that pace that he was going to be right there with me.

But then as it got going, I started to realize, oh, he's not really expending much energy. He's kind of just letting me burn out my energy and and and then he took his moment when I made the the last mistake and really when it boiled down to it I lost one position at the end there uh where I went for a takedown and you know nine times out of ten when I go and club back the guy hits his knees uh but he he just stayed on his feet and stepped out and when I hit my knees it's like lost that position and against a guy like that so dangerous a black belt and is so good I knew one slip up was going to be all I needed and I think he knew that too and he was just kind of waiting buying

his time and hoping that I slip up. It seemed like you expended a lot of energy early on and it seemed like by the time he got the submission you were fairly tired yeah i mean uh fallacy always used to tell me this and it was always uh uh there's tired and can and tired and can't you know it's a fight it's you're gonna be tired right right uh but i i still do think i had my legs underneath me and and still. It's just, I could have played it better tactically. I could have had, you know, more time when I wasn't just going, going, like you said, especially in that first round, if I would have had a little bit better experience maybe or something. I, you know, I don't know. I'll figure that out, but I could have played it a little smarter like he did. Are you, do you have a person that's giving you strategy,

or are you sort of making your strategy up on the fly? That's one of the things that's kind of the main thing. Robert Follis was that guy for me until he passed, and then I kind of just picked up the ball. I understand fighting, but, yeah, it's mostly me doing the strategy. And right now that's where I'm in the limbo of trying to find somebody who already has that experience and has already been there and done it to tell me a little better strategy. Yeah, I think it's so critical, man.

I really do. And we had this conversation over the phone about it. I think that a young fighter with a lot of potential like yourself, there's a reason why fighters have trainers. There's a reason why fighters have trainers. There's a reason why fighters have head coaches. It's not because they want to give up all their money. It's because it helps. And you can delegate that thought process to a master,

someone who's a master of martial arts, who understands positions, who understands strategies, seeing guys tired, seeing guys good, seeing you in the gym, seeing you grind, understands your skill set, understands how you are when you come in perfect, understands how you are when you come in tired. You know, so that is just giant. And having someone who understands you psychologically as well and also having someone that you respect and that you want to impress. All those things are huge. Yeah, it's a big one uh especially like you said being able to talk to you too and and being able to understand you i think that's what rob did really well yes uh

and and he kind of was so good he kind of like reeled me in a little bit like i'm the type i'm just kind of go go go and i kind of think higher to myself than maybe even i am but that's just how i am so that's how you have confidence yeah so but he was the type to kind of reel me in and he used to even tell me like hey you don't gotta get hit so much or you know I'll stand in front of a guy and just like especially when I was younger it was a little even worse and you know because that's just how I'd be feeling right but you know he was kind of the type to to reel me in more than anything it's not like he would tell me one specific techniques or or it was even about his style or anything like that.

It was just a way that he was able to kind of get through to me and kind of make me understand what it is that I'm trying to do. Yeah. And you guys had such a good relationship, too. He was such a good guy, man. Such a good dude. He was such a good guy, man. Such a good dude. I mean, just losing him, I mean, it was devastating for the whole mixed martial arts world,

but losing him for you had to be a real, just a giant change in your career. Yeah, it's a— Which fight did he die before? He died right after the Tony fight, which is a whole other piece of it. I know he had a whole lot of things going on early in his life, especially with his family. When we went to his memorial and people were kind of explaining what it's like growing up. He grew up a Jehovah Witness, so he's explaining what it's like to grow up like that And you know to try and get away from that And having your family disown you

And how like that can I understand the importance of family So I can get that But then even I'm like Man you know they would tell us We were more so keeping him alive longer Than anything So I'm like man if I would have won that fight with Tony

It's like fuck fuck, would he still be here? You know what I mean? Those are the type of like, did I do it to myself almost? But I already know. I'm already at the point where I kind of got over it a little bit. And I kind of understand that I'm not going to be able to replace him by any means. understand that I'm not going to be able to replace him by any means, but I am going to have to get that person who can still speak to me in that same light. You know, the only way that I'm

going to make it right is to win that title and do it for him. You know, he kind of saw that for me, and he was kind of the one to give me that confidence to say, because he's already coached multiple UFC champions. So when he told me that that he could see me being a champ that really like i was like oh okay like i didn't really like i kind of got it a little bit but i didn't really know it until like he gave me that kind of confidence right um so the only thing that's gonna make it right is to go out there and win that title and that's that's if i got it no matter what i gotta to do, I'm not stopping until I do it. Are you 100% committed to 170 now?

Yeah, I think so. I think it's right. You look like you're about 190 now, right? Yeah, I'm just about, I'm about 185, 186, which is normally what I would be about getting ready for a 55-pound fight too. Actually, when I stepped into the cage, I was lighter going into this fight than i was

for some of my my 55 pound fights really um yeah i walked in about 181 um and like for the tony fight was 184 so you know that tony fight was a mess because of the staff right like yeah did you guys have a decision where you had to make whether or not you're going to pull out of the fight yeah i mean i i tried my best to keep it from everybody, and I kind of succeeded in that. I mean, really the only one— You put something over it at the weigh-ins, right? Yeah, I put makeup by Susie, the girl. She did it for me.

But, you know, that really just made the weight cut into my body much worse. I mean, I don't really look at that fight and say that. Tony's a dog, and I kind of give that to him, you know. For sure. And I kind of learned a lot about myself from that fight even. And then fights after that. I've had a lot of tough weight cuts going into them, so I don't really put too much into it.

That first round, though, man, before you got tired, you had a mounted, and that was a big first round for you. Yeah. Yeah. But that was one of the fights where if I would have listened to Rob in that fight, I would already be the champion. And then everything would have looked different. You know, I would have already fought McGregor by now. And then the whole sport would have looked different, I think.

But I didn't listen to him. What did he tell you that you didn't listen to? He tried to tell me to calm down. Like, when you see me, like, walk out for that fight, I was on, I wasn't even, like, on 10. I was on 12. I was on 12 from the morning that I woke up until, you know, until the fight ended.

And that adrenaline pump and that, I mean, I never felt like that since. I probably don't, I don't really want to feel like that either. I was, when I stepped into the arena that night, you know, we get there about two hours before the fight actually is going on. I was ready to fight. And when I was warming up, I was ready to fight. I was fighting people in the back.

There was no warmup. There was no warmup. I was fighting. Now, how much did that staff fuck with you i i think it put me into a state of of fight or flight because you were compromised for days before you know not even just that that you know the day of the fight put me in that state for for days before where it made the weight cut uh so horrible horrible because my body is just trying to hold on to everything. When I woke up that morning, I was about 162.

I woke up at 5 a.m. Weigh-ins are at 9 a.m. I have to be 155. So I've got seven pounds to cut, which is okay. It's not too bad. I cut about nine pounds the day before. I'm a little dehydrated. I'm a little dehydrated. I'm a little, you know, I'm a little already worn.

But as the weight cut was going, you know, we got until about 8 o'clock, and I had only cut a pound and a half. So I still 161 and a half, something, at 8 o'clock. Weigh-ins are at 9 o'clock to the point where we got to do something. So they start to put me in the bathtub just because we we do most of our cuts in the bath you know when you when you're in uh high humidity you you're going to cut more water weight or you're going to sweat more and water is obviously 100 humidity um so they start throwing boiling hot water because we couldn't get the water hot enough to make me sweat

more jesus christ so we just taking kettles of hot water and just pouring it on me. And, you know, doctors are in and out. It's 10, 12 people in and out of the hotel room to make sure I'm okay and to make sure that I could cut the weight. And I was just in such a, like, an adrenaline fucking, like, on 10. I'm like, just get up. You know, I'm screaming at everybody i'm i'm literally i was in the tub i was crying like wow but to me i was like there's no way i'm not making this weight

and six pounds in about an hour maybe two hours because i weighed in about nine o'clock or so uh or i mean uh about 9 30 10 or so um six pounds in two hours it's it was brutal but i think that just kept me at such a such a 10 on my adrenaline level i never really understood how to bring it back down you know and rob would try and talk to me and try and tell me like hey calm down like you know take a few deep breaths And I'm like Yeah yeah I'm breathing Whatever I wasn't listening to it So Now when did you know You had staff The Sunday

The Sunday of the fight Yeah Oh Jesus Sunday of the fight So you had a whole week To think about it almost Yeah I mean I didn't think about it

Like that To be honest with you Yeah What did you notice I noticed like a little Just a bump And it got like really big. And I thought a spider had bit me or something.

And, you know, for Sunday, I just kind of, you know, I didn't think about it. I wasn't training that day. So it was nothing. When I went in on Monday, Dewey was actually the one, Dewey Cooper, my striking coach. He was the one that kind of noticed it. And he was like, hey, is that all right? And then Rob, when he took a look at it, he was like hey is that all right and you know uh and then rob when he took a look at it he was like oh yeah that's that's staff for sure and uh you know i just kind of what do you do when that happens if you can't if you're not

you decided not to take antibiotics yeah yeah so what do you do i roughed it i was like you didn't put anything topical on it or was there Was there a scratch that got infected or a cut? I honestly have no idea. Just when I woke up on Sunday, it was just sticking out of my chest until about right here. And I thought it was a spider bite or something. I had never really had staff like that before. I knew guys who had had it, especially through college wrestling.

Those rooms are just so dirty and filthy that I seen other people with it but it didn't look like that you know what I mean you normally look like a you know you have an open wound or something and then that'll get yellow and pussy and disgusting but this was underneath my skin so it was not like an open wound or anything right when I talked to doctors they said it was just on the the layer of muscle I guess or or something um it's kind of sticking out from it um at the time i didn't really know what that meant like he said it was staff and i was like okay you know like i still feel good like i can still move around like we hit pads that day i've still felt good you know i can

i was like i'm showing up to fight. So you didn't put anything on it? So for six days, you just trained and did everything with that staff? That was kind of like the last thing on my mind even. I was there to fight. When I signed the contract, I'm showing up to the fight. I haven't pulled out of a fight yet. When I say I'm going to do something, I'm going to go ahead and do it, regardless if my leg was halfway falling off. It like shit i still got another one you know i still got five more toes on the other leg so right but looking back on it now

are you happy that you made the decision that you made oh yeah it wasn't smart but you know but you would have done it again tomorrow yeah i would have done it again yeah no doubt no doubt i mean first world title Fight you know Do you do anything To prevent staff Do you use like Defense soap Or anything like that

Yeah ever since You actually hooked me up With those guys At defense Oh thank you Glad you did that Yeah they've been great They're great

Shout out to Guy Yeah Guy Sacco They're awesome So now I just take Way more preventive Measures yeah Yeah I haven't

Had anything Flare up on me since since you take probiotics here and there here and there it's a good way to prevent that as well it also helps prevent rimworm i try my best to eat as many natural foods uh and especially like a lot of yogurts and kefir is one of them cool uh so you know i try and stay on top of it and uh at least i i not no flare up has been happening since you know i shower every time i make sure like i'm on top of it. And at least no flare-up has been happening since. I shower every time. I make sure I'm on top of it.

I make sure I bring my soap and I shower. You don't want that again. It's mostly the, yeah, the fight didn't go my way or whatever. But it was about three or four weeks after that fight where I was just wrecked. I was just in the worst shape ever. And when I got on those antibiotics I just Fucking kills people

It could barely move Staff kills people It was terrible People that ignore staff I want to scream at them I'm like listen man You could die It seems like you just got an infection

But that shit gets systemic It gets in your bloodstream And you could fucking die One of my friend Brian Callen's Friend's wife died And he went over the house and she was like you know some people get crazy with holistic stuff oh she's just gonna try natural healing and he's like get her to a fucking doctor he's like her gums were bleeding jesus yeah it had

gotten systemic and she wound up dying jesus yeah man from staff i've had it twice and uh the first time i had it i when i got on the antibiotics first of all the antibiotics yeah just kick your ass the fact that luke rockhold won the fucking title against chris weidman while he was on antibiotics shows you what a stud that guy is yeah because that shit kicks your ass he had he had staff when he fought weidman i didn't know that actually yeah he was wrecked i know those antibiotics mess you up bad. I've done them once for like a sore throat or something earlier a couple years ago and it just wrecked me bad. So I knew like going into that fight, I was like, I'd rather have the staff than the antibiotics. I was like, I haven't had staff before. I've had the antibodies. I know

what they're going to do to me. I was thinking that when you fought and afterwards talking to you about it, I think you probably made the right move to not do antibiotics. But I don't know. I'm not a doctor. But I was thinking that, that it just weakens you so much. You know, it's just you live and learn from these things, I think. And it's just part of the journey. And before I would have like where I wanted everything to be perfect or I wanted everything to kind of be the way I saw it, you know, especially like starting out the career.

Like everybody wants to be Floyd when you're 50 and 0 and it's just you're not getting touched and it's just easy. But then when you take a look back at that and you don't see like how many amateur fights Floyd had, you know, he's got his dad who fought. He's got his uncles and his whole family been fighting. So he's learned from all their mistakes and all their losses and everything to where it's like I'm the first one in my family to even ever think about this. So you're going to bump your head here and there. It just is what it is. Comparison is a thief of joy.

You can't do that. You've got to just think about being the best that you can be. That's hard, though. It is hard, bro. It's very hard. You be inspired by people, but comparing yourself to their path, everybody's got a different path. Everyone's got different genetics, right?

Some people are just better at certain things. Some people struggle with certain aspects of the sport. I mean, everyone's got their own individual challenge. It's one of the things that's so interesting about it is watching people adapt and grow. And so you're in that stage right now, right? You're still young. You're still a top contender.

You're still one of the best fighters in the division. You just have to kind of figure out what you're going to do and how you're going to do it. So what are you thinking right now? So I'm leaving straight from here. I'm going to go to Phoenix for about a week and work with John Crouch. John Crouch? Great. Yeah.

Great idea. Love that guy. Yeah, he's great outstanding even seeing like the way his coaches died i've never worked with him before but we have a mutual kind of respect um i fought a couple of his guys before and and uh so he's definitely one of the masters he's one of the guys i want to pick his brain uh and i kind of want to go to a couple different places and just see how they are you know i'm gonna go from there to uh to colorado and work with trevor whitman excellent I'm going to go from there to Colorado and work with Trevor Whitman.

Excellent. And then go right to Montreal and work with Firas Ali. That's what's up. That's what's up. I like it. All three, though. They're all amazing. Great minds.

Yes. As I go to each place, I'm going to kind of see what I like and what I don't like about each one, you know, and see how they see how everything is there you know the life and you know uh uh what training partners and and all these other things because that's just as important too so absolutely yeah i think also a shock to the system is important like moving going to a new camp going to a new environment because you want you want to shine yeah and also you realize like man everything's on the line here like you've literally uprooted your life moved to some new place and it makes you be more dedicated it makes you realize you can't just fuck off here like this is this is the real world you're a real

world-class fighter and you're you're on your path to attempt to become a world champion and this is the best way to do it i think it's so critical for fighters to make decisions and make changes and make moves when they know that they they have a missing piece of the puzzle you know they're the they're missing a master coach or they're missing uh you know a great wrestling coach or a great striking coach whatever whatever the fuck it is a great environment with world-class fighters whatever it is have you talked to jackson's have you talked to those guys at all i haven't um but you know i know uh brandon gibson down there and i've been wanting

to work with him for a long time um i i might you know i don't i don't know uh this is this this little trip is going to take up six weeks at a time and then i figure when i get back to vegas and kind of regroup and be able to make some decisions from there on what's going to happen. I haven't done something like this since I moved to Vegas in the first place where I just kind of packed up my car and just start driving west. And, you know, was sleeping out on my car. Where were you at before that? I was still in Detroit. Oh, so you went right from Detroit right to Vegas?

Yeah, yeah. I was still in college when I got you went right from detroit right to vegas yeah yeah i was still in college uh when i got the call so you know that was like the time where i'm like i don't know which way my life is gonna go you know i had got done with the fight with uh al i went to my debut and after that fight i was like i gotta make some changes i just didn't know what and that was just as scary a time as now you know even though now like i ain't I ain't sleeping on my car, you know what I mean? And I ain't eating whatever I can. I can eat some nice – I can go to restaurants and, you know. But it still kind of feels the same, you know?

It's still that same – it's scary, you know? No lie, because I don't necessarily know what it's going to look like. But I ain't never really let that stop me either, so. What about American Top Team? Have you thought about that at all? I have. I mean, I know a lot of guys that moved down to Florida. Do you know what the problem with Florida is?

It's too nice. It's too nice? It's too nice. Yeah, yeah. It's too like. There's too many crazy freaks down there. But, you know, people say the same thing about Vegas too, though. You know, when I first moved to Vegas, I think Dana had did an interview or something, maybe like a month after I moved there.

And he was saying how hard it is for a fighter to make it from Vegas. And even at the time, I was like, you know, really nothing to me. Like, I don't really I try and stay focused. You know, I mean, I try and keep a bigger, bigger picture in my head. I don't really let this shit get to me too much. So if I do move down to Florida, I don't think I'm going to just be on the beach kind of sitting back. I see some guys do it. I've seen guys move down there and just get caught up in that lifestyle of sitting back.

It's just – It seems to me that Vegas, if you stay away from the Strip, you'll be all right. Yeah. But Miami is the whole strip. Yeah, yeah, true. It might be a little harder. It's everything. It's all of Miami.

And it's the attitude down there. Everybody just parties, man. Yeah, yeah. It's everybody else, too. It's a big influence. You know Will Harris from the, what is his production inside, A Fighter's Life? Is that what it is? Anatomy of a Fighter. Anatomy of it is? Anatomy of a Fighter.

Anatomy of a Fighter. He was just telling me about it. He just went down there, and he was thinking about moving there until he spent like four days there. He was like, get the fuck out of here. I can't live here. This is crazy. These people are crazy.

He said, you should need a passport. I'm like, that's what I've been saying. It's like a different world. It's a different country. It's a party country down there. Yeah. I've only been once to Miami. I've got a cousin that lived there.

And I mean, I went out with the intention of partying, but I was like, I'm kind of good on it. Kamaru Usman lives there. You can be a champion out of there. Robbie Lawler's from there. You can be a champion out of there. It's one of the best gyms in the world. But in terms of distractions the hard part for for uh places like that is i'm missing that mind do you know what i mean uh they got a lot

of great fighters down there and they got a lot of i feel like the training and in in the uh uh atmosphere and you know the training partners and everything would be great but i'm missing that that that great mind and in you know you know mike brown i i've i've met mike a few times and there's a brilliant guy there's some respect but we haven't really like yeah have a conversation with him have a conversation with him too i mean if you want to really decide what what clicks with you better i'm i'm a big fan of mike brown and obviously ricardo laborio is a fantastic jujitsu coach and you know and i'm just a whole fan of the the whole organization you know when the way they put it together you know yeah i mean it could be uh it might be something that i might look at you know it may be towards uh the end of the summer something like

that kind of already got this trip uh set and planned so i'm just like i'm about to pull the trigger on it and see where they take me beautiful well i'm very glad that you're doing that you're making changes and and trying to see you know where the right spot is for you yeah i mean uh immediately after the fight is like when it when it doesn't go your way or the way that you you necessarily see it is it's discouraging it's all hell you know you're like fuck i don't know if i'm doing the right thing i don't know if i'm i seeing right, you know, before the fight in the locker room. And this doesn't happen very often. But I just I felt like I was seeing certain things. And I don't necessarily I'm not a religious guy like that or anything.

And I don't really like believe in, I don't necessarily know what, but when, when certain things started to click for me, like when you're on your way to work and you just like, you're hitting every green light and then like, you know, somebody comes up to you, they're going to say something, you know what they're going to say. And then you got the, the, the time for the perfect answer. It was kind of like that type of, of, of, of feeling that I was having. So I just felt like everything was like coming together. Right. And I just felt like everything was coming together right and my confidence was boosting up so much before going. I think the warm-up was perfect.

The weight cut was perfect. It really wasn't a weight cut. Everything was perfect going into the fight. So then when it didn't go my way, it was discouraging a little bit. You know what I mean? It was like, fuck, I didn't know what i necessarily was doing wrong or or or if i was on the right path you know but which leads you to think that you need a coach yeah i need somebody smarter than me you know that's just the real man everybody's

smarter than you that's not you you know because like they can see you in a way that you can't see yourself yeah yeah your friends are always smarter than you yeah hey man you gotta stop doing that really yeah man you're fucking up like really oh shit yeah you don't see it because i'm in it like yes how do i know yeah it's that's his life man that's life i mean it's so important to have people around you that understand you and know you yeah it's if you don't have and and then also someone that you really trust and appreciate as a coach it's so gigantic man yeah i think and especially for fighting because fighting is such a a personal thing to me you know it's not like that's why i never really worked with uh any of the guys at the ufcpi like they've got everything there and they've got you know

and even the coaches are great and all but it's like i need that i need to be able to trust you with my life like that's really what it is yes like no one's died inside the octagon yet but knock on wood knock on wood yeah just a nice table i mean had a lot of crazy fights you know so when i get up get ready to do it I go into it with that expectation you know if you're the one you don't care how many people

haven't right died doing it you know it's 100% for you the chances so I need to be able to trust every

I need to trust you with my life almost you know and you know it's hard to find that though the reason why I recommended

Firas Ahabi is first of all he's one of the smartest guys I've ever talked to. Firas is a fucking genius, legitimate genius, knows everything about MMA. I mean, there's not a stone unturned. And he coached GSP. And I feel like your style and GSP's style are very similar in that you both are very good wrestlers, and you're both very good at mixing up the wrestling and the striking where you don't see anything you don't know what's coming and you're both you don't both don't have any weaknesses you have an awesome submission game gsp has an awesome submission game you have great wrestling great striking it's very similar and i

think that his experience and coaching one of the greatest of all time in george saint pierre would would lend would just slide right into coaching someone like you i really believe that yeah i think for as i'm getting closer to it you know i'll know more when i when i get there but that's the last stop yeah that's the best stop and kind of the longest of it too yeah i kind of had already thought that if i was a young man and i was thinking about fighting i think i'd move to montreal yeah i think he's got a special mind i do you know and i and it's not to take away from any of the brilliant coaches i mean i think you could be a world champion with duke rufus who's also a brilliant guy and an amazing coach i mean there's no bad stop for you but there's just

something about you and farasahabi that i just feel like yeah when i met him uh and i sat next to him we had dinner together as soon as i sat down next to him he told me everything i did wrong in a tony fight like right out the gate i was like bingo right yeah yeah just i mean he's but he's he's a genius he's sharp he's smart yeah uh so yeah i mean but then again whitman i i've worked with whitman too and and whitman is a really experienced dude. You know, he's coached so many people. He's seen so many different styles and done it himself a lot, too. You know what I love about Whitman?

When Justin Gagey flatlines people, Whitman acts like nothing even happened. Yeah. He's like he knew it was going to happen. It's crazy. Like everybody's jumping and cheering, and Whitman's like, yep, here we go. I think it's because he's seen so many. He may have been on the other side of that, too, where it's your guy getting knocked out, too.

Sure. Like you said, it's two people going in there. Somebody's got to lose. He's been around the game long enough to where he understands the other side of it, too. He ain't going to go crazy. Because that guy's got a family That guy's got People that he's trying to take care of He's got every

Right Other motivation that you got too You know Yeah Yeah really Yeah I think There's also the culture shock

Of moving to Montreal Would be good for it too Yeah I mean Maybe I spent some time It's cold as fuck, son. That's why I left Detroit. Those Januaries.

Oh, my God. I've been to Montreal in January. It's like, yikes. You go outside, you got that thick fog coming out of your mouth. That's why I'm going to June. Yeah, going June. That's good for you, man. I think it's good for you.

I feel like that That cold Might It might be something to that You know The best wrestlers and everything Are always from the Midwest And from that cold You know why Because they develop character

Yeah I think it is something to that It's 100% There's soft ass people Out here in California bro Yeah It's so easy Vegas no different

It's so easy to get by All my friends from Boston They come out to California They go people are Fucking soft out here Yeah They don't have to Shovel snow They don't have to worry

About freezing to death You know if your car Breaks down in Boston You're 10 miles from your house You might freeze to death Yeah That's real That's real

You better keep a blanket In that bitch Yeah You better have a Fucking sleeping bag And a candle And I think it gives you Like different

Different morals And different like Yes different character to you. You value things a little bit differently in that cold. Detroit was the same way. It's like seven months out the year, you're spending that time indoors. And it builds your family and everything because you ain't going to be inside with some fucking schmo from down the street. You don't want to. Right. You have to count on each other, too, when fucking cold yeah because everybody's in this together yeah literally literally yeah all is fucking cold we ain't going

out there it's also like a vulnerability to nature that just forces you to accept your place in the universe like you are you are vulnerable you're very vulnerable in california your wife could kick you out You're like fuck you bitch I'll sleep on the lawn You can go sleep on the lawn You don't have to worry about nothing You know you'll be fine In January you could sleep on the lawn

With a good jacket on in California It was gorgeous too You could just get in your car And just drive down to the beach Yeah exactly It's too easy To me I think it's paradise It's too easy

But then you talk to people who They've spent their whole life here and they don't see it that way. So maybe it's all perspective. How about people from Brazil? I mean, how badass are people from Brazil? And that's fucking paradise too. Yeah. But it's rough. Rough paradise.

It's a little different down in Brazil. I think... A lot of crime. Yeah. I get them Brazilian. It's a lot of respect. Some of them, they really come up out of crime. Yeah. I give them resilience, a lot of respect. Some of them, they really come up out of nothing, literally out of nothing. And to build that respect around their community and stuff, I give it to them.

I do as well. And you've got to give it up to them for creating Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. They essentially revolutionized Jiu-Jitsu. The Gracie family is the most important family in the history of martial arts and what they did with brazil and brazilian jujitsu and how brazilian jujitsu evolved in that country you know just they took to it like a duck to water man yeah i wonder what it is about uh brazil that that that was like the one place to to stick you know i think if they if that count maeda had gone anywhere else,

if he had landed and talked to some other dude somewhere, I think they got lucky. They found Elio Gracie and Carlos Gracie and they found some dudes who were just straight up warriors. And they taught those guys and those guys were, I mean, Elio Gracie just really,

him and Carlos just thought it through and then were willing to test it in real competition against people much larger than them. The fact that Ilio was a small man, he wasn't a large framed man, is the reason why Brazilian jiu-jitsu became so effective. Because Ilio had to fight off of his back. He had to tire out bigger guys first. They had to develop the concept of cooking your opponent. All that wasn't in Japanese jiu-jitsu it wasn't in judo judo is a beautiful elegant martial arts with fantastic technique and powerful moves but it wasn't brazilian jiu-jitsu brazilian jiu-jitsu

is largely a part of this one dynamic incredible family and if you look at that family all the fucking champions hoist horian hickson you know i mean come on man hoiler hundreds of them fucking crazy and now crone yeah i mean jesus christ what a fucking family man henzo yeah yeah i mean high end i mean just just gracie after gracie genetics you saw grac You saw Gracie like, oh, no. Killers. Just straight killers. Yeah. I mean, the game has changed a little bit since then.

Don't forget Carlson Gracie, too. The game has changed a little bit since then. It has. But it has been because of them, I feel like. It evolved in that area and sprung out. And, of course, obviously, there's Muay Thai from Thailand, Dutch kickboxing, American wrestling. There's so many different factors.

Russian wrestling. So many different factors that come into what we now call mixed martial arts today. But man, I just keep thinking that if it wasn't for that one family, who the fuck knows? Because part of what made the Ultimate Fighter so spectacular,

or the Ultimate Fighting Championship, rather, in the first two ones, was Hoist Gracie being this guy who's not this physically terrifying guy. Like if it was Mark Coleman. If Mark Coleman. 200 pounds of muscle. Jack, 265 with muscles up to his neck. Straight up to the top of his head. His neck would just come off of his shoulders. He was huge.

If he won, you'd be like, yeah, that makes sense. But when Hoist won, everybody was like, shit, I got to learn jiu-jitsu. Like, look, that guy choked that dude out with his legs. I remember people at home were going, what the fuck is this? That's what makes fighting so great because you never know what's going to happen

in real fight, you know, true fight. I i mean even in boxing too you know you see some some crazy shit like anthony joshua just getting beat uh but you know you but i think in mma it's it's it's even more just because there's so many different options and i have it upon from a good source that anthony joshua got dropped in sparring the week of the fight. Wow. And he got hurt real bad the week of the fight. And that he was very tentative coming into that fight and very vulnerable, which makes sense. You could kind of see it on him a little bit.

Even in the first round. Even walking out, you can kind of see his look. And it's a little glazy. It's a little out of it. I figured that it was just coming over to America for the first time and being in New York. It's a lot of pressure, especially when you talk about Deontay Wilder knocking the dude into the next century like the week before. Did you see that did you see that video that I posted on Instagram from that dude he does animation no no oh my god

there's two amazing ones pull up first of all pull up the Deontay Wilder one because he has uh the the fucking glove from uh the Avengers and he he hits this dude the guy did this Ray Rod Ray Rod did yeah yeah Ray Rod yeah yeah he yeah, yeah. He's incredible. Yeah, he's crazy. That guy's animation, his graphics are amazing. But he did one for Deontay, and then he did an even more hilarious one for Andy Ruiz. Yeah. Oh, my God.

I didn't see the Andy. I did see the one with Deontay. Oh, you saw that one? I didn't see it through yours. Okay, so pull up the Ruiz one then. Yeah. So you can see when he drops Joshua. Watch this shit.

It's hilarious, man. The guy's so good. Give us some volume, too. Can we do that? Or was it the soundtrack to... You think we'll get in trouble for that? I don't know. Yeah, no volume.

All right, no volume. Just play the video. Watch this. So, you see, even when you're looking at Joshua after the fact, look at this. And then his body, his body's still there, but his spirit, he's got a roller, he's got a roller bag. He's going through the airport. His spirit, he's got Tweety birds floating around his head while Anthony Joshua's still

on the ground. His spirit gets into a Tweety birds Floating around his head While Anthony Joshua Is still on the ground His spirit gets into a plane And flies away That was awesome That guy That dude's awesome It's so amazing How he did that

The next day The day after the fight That was out People are getting crazy With like what they can do They're so good Yeah It makes you jealous a little bit

It's like I know right You know Wish I even had that Kind of creative process Yeah to think it through, let alone, like, go through with it, you know. I know. People are being crazy.

That guy's a master, though. His ability to do it. Here's the Deontay Wilder one. Yeah, I think I saw this one. Boom. Yeah. I mean, that is crazy. And then when Deontay moves away with the eyes glowing.

That's awesome. He has the craziest power i've ever seen in the heavyweight division yeah he's so weird it's so weird his power and you know when he fought tyson fury way 209 yeah that's all really 209 wow crazy wow yeah he wasn't trying to be light either he just that's just what he wound up weighing you know i think he's one of those guys that can find your chin uh like certain guys like have a weird kind of, you know, he's kind of gangly anyway, but he can, punches are coming from odd angles. He's got the power and everything too, but it's more than power. It's like he's finding your chin in there.

He's got chin-finding intelligence. Yeah, yeah, he's got that home-seeking missile. I mean, the fact that he dropped Tyson Fury like that in the 12th round of a fight where he was kind of getting outboxed other than dropping him once. But the way he hit him in that 12th round, I was like, God damn, he knocked him out in the 12th round. I look at that and I'm like, to not get discouraged. You know what I mean? Like, that's some serious belief in the type of power that you got. If after 12 rounds you ain't landed the shot right and you can still kind

of muster it up in the 12th it's as a fighter i kind of look it down like damn like that's a lot of of of you got to give it to him like you gotta take your head off to him it's like he's got crazy endurance too that's the other thing he must have a phenomenal work ethic because he's never tired and he carries that power deep into the 12th round a lot of times guys that hit real hard like that after you get past six seven rounds they start to fade especially in the heavyweight division but Deontay moves just as fast hits just as hard in the 12th as he does in the first it might be something to uh keep it keeping his weight too like that like you say he's only 209 pounds he was heavier for this fight for the Dominic Brazil fight apparently he was he was quite a bit heavier

uh how much heavier do you think I think it was 230 or something oh wow okay that's a lot of weight 209 pounds. He was heavier for this fight. For the Dominic Brazil fight, apparently, he was quite a bit heavier. How much heavier do you think he was? I think he was 230 or something. Oh, wow. Okay, that's a lot of weight. Yeah, see what he weighed. What Deontay Wilder weighed in for Dominic Brazil. I think that I was kind of shocked that he was somewhere in the 230s, which is like a normal heavyweight.

220? 223. Oh, okay. Okay. That's not much different. Still pretty light. Still a little bit of weight. Well, Tyson was 218, remember, when he was in his prime?

Tyson wasn't even 220. Yeah, that's what I mean. I think it's definitely something to that. Maybe that's just what their natural weight is. I think it's – as I'm getting a little bit more deeper into the game, it might be something to that. That's why I think I'm going to stay at 170. Even from now, I you you show up healthier and it's it's just if you got that experience if you've already been fighting a lot of heavyweights like how he has it's not like a

265 pound dude is gonna shock him you know what i mean or 240 or well it's also because there's no wrestling yeah yeah yeah that's it's a big factor in it um yeah i think it's also because there's no wrestling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a big factor in it. Yeah, I think it's a giant factor. Yeah. But then again, look at Cain Velasquez. When Cain was at his prime, he was about 240. And when he fought Brock Lesnar, Brock Lesnar was quite a bit bigger than him. But it didn't matter. I mean, Cain fought a lot of guys who were bigger than him.

Yeah, the wrestling is probably the biggest reason, I think, a lot of us cut weight in MMA, for sure. I mean, that's where you can feel the most weight, too. You know, when I was going against Dos Anjos, it's like, I didn't necessarily feel he was any stronger than me or any stronger than any 55-pounder that I fought before. But when I kind of would have him pressed or whatever, and I could kind of feel the weight of that, you know, on my back and just carrying it. And it makes you expend more energy too. It's like fighting with a 15-pound vest on.

Yeah, exactly. When the fight was over, that's the first thing he said to me. He's like, yeah, I knew coming up to 170, this being your first fight, that you was going to get tired. And I was like, fuck, she could have told me that before, you son of a bitch. It don't do me no good. He's got some phenomenal cardio, though. And also, he was coming off the Usman fight, and Usman outworked him. Yeah.

So he was probably, like, extra geared up. Yeah. And Usman's bigger than me, too, you know. Yeah. And so he had already felt that. Yes. And he's fought for the title at 170. He's got a lot of fights at 170 already.

Yeah. So he's already felt that weight. He's also gone through Nick Curson's strength and conditioning routines. You know, he was, I don't know if he's still working with Nick Curson, but Nick Curson was a Marv Marinovich disciple. And just, they do a lot of crazy box jumps and plyometrics. You ever seen him on Instagram? No, no.

Go to speedofsport on Instagram. I know he did a lot of work with Aaron Pico before Pico went to Calavita. He was doing work with him. He's done a lot of work with a lot of pro fighters. I think he worked with Joe Schilling. He's worked with a lot of guys. But wild strength and conditioning shit. A lot of plyos, a lot of box jumps, and a lot of crazy shit where you know know that that uh calf raise bar and they they'll

do that but with your feet like kick it up and down and up and down like let me see let's see what you got there jamie this is just some of the shit that he has people do is this dos anjos yeah so he was was i wonder if he was training with him for this fight but it's a lot of this type of shit it's a lot of uh explosive plyometric shit and his idea is that when you're in a fight see this thing like they're doing a lot of stuff with that thing and they'll do it laying on their back with their feet as well but it's all this just explosive bouncing stuff and i mean his philosophy he doesn't ever have those guys lift weights like traditional lifting weights It's all like plyos, box jumps, exploding, jumping over hurdles, that kind of shit.

Intense, intense stuff. But that's the stuff that got BJ Penn into the best shape of his life when BJ Penn fought Sean Shirk, when BJ Penn fought Diego Sanchez. When he was at the top of the food chain, BJ was working with Marinoviches, and he was doing all this crazy cardio workout, which was like the missing link in BJ's arsenal. Because before BJ's this incredibly talented guy, but then he just didn't have the same kind of work ethic and cardio. And he just gave himself to Marinovich and just like, go ahead, dude, tell me what to do. And mostly what they were doing was strength and conditioning. And they were saying basically BJ already knows

how to fight. And the real key was to get his gas tank as fucking thick and fat as possible. Just give him this giant-ass gas tank and give him this capacity to work that's just unprecedented to him. And then everything else, he already knows how to do. So everything else, just do it light, but don't compromise on the strength and conditioning workouts because that's the most important aspect of the sport. And it's a very controversial discussion well what's most

important yeah i think you need balance with it all you know i think so too but i used uh calvita's methods uh for this one and came down and seen him a couple times in in orange county uh what kind of stuff did he have you do that dude's a fucking he's a man yeah his workouts His workouts are brutal His ideas are More He takes you to exhaustion And then we do stuff like that Like the explosive stuff And different types of movements And you know

Kind of making sure that your legs are still underneath you But he puts you on a bike And that bike workout It's like a 30 minute 3 minutes like keeping a hard hard hard pace on like a very, very high level. And, you know, he's got you strapped up with all these monitors and everything to kind of make sure that you're actually hitting your red line. And then the workout starts. So it's about like a three-hour workout.

And it's draining. It's brutal. It's like. Three hours? Yes. Yes. It's a fight. you see some things going through a workout like that you know what i mean like you go to a like a dark dark play and i went through

a couple of them getting ready for that fight uh where he's just taking it with aaron pico yeah yeah that's his garage too that's where we uh do the workout and i mean it's a brutal uh he took a lot of shit after tj tested positive for epo well shit i i can see why tj needed it okay after going through some of i was like shit i see what you know like uh you know each his own and and all that uh but you know i don't put that on sam it's like you know he can't yeah i mean tj's a grown man he's gonna do what he's gonna do we don't even know if he knew you know yeah yeah and and and speaking with him and everything he had no idea he was just as blindsided which is you know kind of that's unfortunate that's unfortunate for him too because everybody was really paying attention

to how how scientifically he was designing and engineering these workouts yeah and people were really excited about it so it was a you know a little bit of a back step for him as well yeah he uh he's a smart smart dude you know i think he's a a math teacher over at at cal state or something like that and yep um i mean genius of a dude you sit and talk to him and like he's gonna tell you exactly why he's running you through these these certain things so uh you know we we picked up on his uh uh philosophies going into this one and i you know even though i was tired during the fight it's it's a fight you're gonna be tired i still had my legs underneath me and

still uh uh could go you know um so i i don't know i think it was more tactically than anything if i'm going back on it but you know you think it was more tactically than anything if I'm going back on it. You think it's more the way you approached the pacing, the way you approached as far as the strategy of how to face Dos Anjos? Yeah. What did you think was going to happen when you went into the fight? I was going to break him. I wanted to fight.

I think the fight before that with Al, I hated the way that fight went i hated the way i i i showed up for it and i and i left way too much reserved and the worst feeling for me like i don't really i hate losing i really do but i don't really get hung up on the results that much i hate not performing and at your potential so if you feel like you perform to your potential and someone does better then you're like okay that's a lesson yeah i can learn from that and grow from it but when it's a fight and i get done with it win loser or whatever and i still got a little bit in me and i still like you know you walk back to the doctor and i'm still ready to fight and i still feel that in me i hate that feeling more than anything so i wanted to make sure that i didn't get this one up from

this one you know and and i haven't really uh had a fight in the ufc yet that has hit kind of where i want it to be you know like i haven't given people have watched me grow up in in the sport i feel like but it ain't really seen like a good fight out of me yet so that's kind of what i was looking for and what i was after is just dos anjos was smart about it in in in world champion so but you know yeah i mean he's been around the block man and he's in a precarious situation himself right because he get dominated by the champ in his last fight and you know i mean what do you do from there i mean he he beats you but where is he it's not like people are clamoring for him to fight for the title again.

The good thing is that at 170, there's so many good fights to be at. Even for me, there's so many. You've got Askren, you've got Masvidal that he's getting ready to fight. You've got Usman, you've got Kamaru, you've got Pettis and Diaz is back. There's so many good fights. I mean, there's going to be a great fight for him I'm pretty sure I mean I don't know I don't look at it like that no I'm pretty sure as well I mean goddamn both divisions between 55 and 70 are stacked you were pushing for a 65 yeah yeah I

think it's a great idea I still am kind of but I am too they just don't want to listen yeah nobody I don't see why change 70 to 75 change 65 55 45 35 it's makes sense 10 pounds makes sense but these arbitrary i think there should be a 95 too how about that that one i can see a little bit just because of how shallow 205 was getting but now you got so many great fighters at 205 even uh and you're starting to see that body type that's coming through you know the johnny walker, the kid that just fought the last weekend and knocked out Manuel. Yeah, how do you say his name?

I don't know, you know. He just knocked out Jimmy Manoa. But he's kind of got that similar frame, too, as John Jones, and, you know, you're starting to see more of those guys. How do you say his name? I don't know if he retired. Yeah, Manoa retired. Just show show it to me I'll spell it Alexander Rockets sure rake it's right all right yeah Rockets I think it's Rockets yeah yeah he's

a fucking beast man that step in left high kick was beautiful brutal but now they're getting so many guys that they might be able To build a 95 pound Class at one point But they could do 65 Right here and now And it'd be You know One of the best

Yeah it'd be One of the best It's almost like There's too many guys At 55 and 70 I mean I think that And then also Like look at the

Women's flyweight division The women's Or the women's Well the women's Flyweight division now Of course with Shevchenko's gonna fight Jessica Ai this weekend

But if you go back To the women's Strawweight division The strawweight division, the strawweight division when Ioana was champion, everybody was like, well, there's no one there. Who's going to fight her? And now it's stacked. It's stacked.

You've got Tatiana Suarez. You've got Jessica Andrade who just beat Thug Rose. You know, you've got, you know, so many fighters. It's like it's a world-class division. It seemed like it got better too When they added 125 Yes You know what I mean

It got It got even more Because now you're seeing Like the people Who wouldn't get shined before Now they're getting shined And you're like Oh

Like Y'all got some serious talent in there You know And I feel like At 55 You got so many guys That's underneath top 25 That

Could Could shine through. You know, if you just give them the space. It also allows for guys like Max Holloway to go up at 55 and be able to compete. I feel like that's more of his natural weight, too. It is, but having him lose the way he lost to Dustin Poirier, a lot of people are saying he just doesn't have the same power at 55 that he had at 45. I just don't think he had the experience yet.

At 55. Yeah, that was his first fight at 55. And Dustin's already had a lot of them where even if they had both fought at 45 before, Dustin's already been there, so it's not going to be a shock to him. And you kind of got to just give credit to Dustin, how fucking good he is. That too. A lot of people forgot. The way he was rolling with punches and just barely slipping them.

His power. Once he's moved up to 55, he was torturing himself to get to 45. He's a great example of a success story of a guy who stopped cutting as much weight. But he's big now. He's having a hard time making 55 now. He growing into the weight class which max will do the same you know max is a big dude like uh so i think if you if you let him compete against guys that are more his size eventually the next time that they fought i think it would look a little bit different and what do you think khabib versus dustin looks like because that's what they're setting up that's the next fight in abu dhabi i don't know i i really don't know like to say

right yeah before the max fight i would have for sure been like khabib's gonna blow him out the water uh he's just gonna take him down he's gonna be too big but max really wasn't trying to take him down the way khabib will it's a difference it's a different fighter yeah but but the way dustin's footwork was looking in that um that's what makes you think about it because you know khabib's kind of a one track one one train mind he's gonna come right at you you know he's gonna do too yeah uh but if dustin not even necessarily can can out wrestle him it's just it's way easier to play defense on wrestling than offense and if you've got great footwork like that to keep your back off the fence,

it might be a long night for Khabib. Who knows? It's a good fight. It's a good fight. Dustin's got that serious power. Yeah, it's a good fight. Dustin can hurt you. If you zig me, you should have zagged.

Yep. You know, Southpaw, I think that's going to play a big factor in it. You know, it's a little harder to get in on a lot of those shots. The real key is can he stuff the takedown and can he defend himself on the ground? Because with so many guys, Khabib gets a hold of them and then they develop that thousand-yard stare where they're like, what in the fuck is happening? You know how it's like when, me especially, I'm sure you remember early in your career when you would go with a guy who was just way bigger than you or way stronger than you and you just go oh i can't do shit yeah yeah yeah is that i can't do shit thing i'm just sort of surviving here yeah i mean i still try and put myself in those situations now it's a terrible field yeah you i'm rolling with robert drysdale or something i'm like oh jesus christ i'm lucky

just to i'm just counting how many times or i roll with vinnie uh and i'm like i'm just counting how many times, or I rode with Vinny Magalhães, and I'm like, I'm just trying my best not to get submitted. I'm at the point where now you're only going to submit me one or two times. Before it was like 10. It was like as many times as you wanted to. But, you know, like, okay, if I slowly pick at this, then I might be able to get it. I was so shocked he didn't win that PFL thing. I was so shocked. I thought he was going to win it for sure.

Yeah, yeah. His striking has come so far, you know. It's one of those things, you know, it's the game. Yep. It's the game. The game, yeah. What can you do? It's a fucking crazy sport.

It really is the craziest sport that's ever existed. And you never know, even as an athlete. Like, you can do everything to prepare right, and you feel like all the chips and, like, everything's in your corner and like i mean i guess it's like life it's like you think everything is just right but sometimes it's not yeah shit happens what can you do you just pick it up and yeah try it again like a madman well you just have to accept that this is what you've chosen you know and this is part of what comes with it it's just chaos i think you just got to be crazy i think you gotta be a little you gotta be a little like out of your fucking mind to do this yeah a hundred percent but i mean i see other people in

other professions and what they do and i'm like he's a little crazy too you know i mean he's a little out of his mind to do what he's doing so maybe it's just what you just be me you know you also at least you have the freedom to not be stuck in a fucking office yeah you have an exciting life as crazy and chaotic as it is at least as exciting i'll take exciting every day off over boring and it lets me be me you know what i mean like that that walking out for a fight or or just just even just getting ready for the, like the week of, and, you know, doing media and stuff like that. And, and just, it lets me like really express myself in a way that I never really got to as a kid or, or, or anything before that, uh, where that gives me like a little bit of peace. And it gives me like, I really don't give a fuck about nobody

else or, or what they doing or what they got going on. And it, and it lets me like a little bit of peace and it gives me like I really don't give a fuck about nobody else or what they're doing or what they got going on. And it lets me like just be me and just flow with it and just have fun. Before, I would never really let myself do that. I would kind of always be guarded and I would kind of always be like on edge and just not just be myself. And fighting has let me let me let it out you know and not because it's so crazy because it's a wild exchange because what you're doing is so dynamic that you could just be the full you yeah and i think everybody is is different too you know everybody fights different so so it's not one is better than the other you know it's like – it's like you just got to – if you be yourself, then you're going to do better.

You know what I mean? Even in the media and stuff like that or however you want to approach it, it's like if you be yourself, I kind of figured it out. Just be me and just enjoy it. Right. Then it's better. Yeah. As opposed to like when know when you are you know microphone in front of you there like when you uh you know you're stuck in an office or whatever

or however it is or you're stuck doing something that you feel like you should do or people want you to do then you start like living like that almost and i kind of have felt myself get there before i started fighting uh it's like trying to live up to other people's expectations or or you know right and fighting is just like you're the master of your own destiny yeah yeah in a lot of ways yeah and that's the best thing about it yeah fuck the wind fuck the laws of money is fun uh that's kind of what i got into it for. It's fun, but it's given me a lot of else to my life. You know what I mean? Do you watch many fights outside of? All day.

All day. Every day. Outside of MMA? Yeah. Do you watch like jiu-jitsu or Muay Thai? I watch all the jiu-jitsu when it's really getting going. I was going to try and come out here a day before and try and see worlds. It depends, but know, I was going to try and come out here a day before and try and see worlds. You know, it depends.

But, yeah, I try. Yeah, it's interesting when you see how good people are at those individual disciplines, you know. That's one of the more interesting aspects about MMA is that you really can't be the best in the world at everything. And you're going to have, because it's such a complex sport yeah you can try you certainly can you certainly can but you're right though I think uh a lot of a lot of these other sports and stuff they've had so many years just to figure out what works and what don't work that they've really refined the the process you know what i mean uh like you see some of these high high level boxers and it's like they've had you know you talk about

somebody like floyd he's had his his dad fight and his his uncle fight before him to where he's like refined the the process so much that it's damn near perfect you know what i mean uh we haven't got to that point yet nibba may no it's gonna be a while not even close not even i don't know if we'll ever get there because it seems like it's because it's a combination of so many different disciplines it's you just don't it doesn't seem like you're ever going to see the a guy who is world-class muay thai and world-class jujitsu and world-class wrestling all in one fighter. It just doesn't seem like that's really possible. I think you can get it in a couple more generations, though. You think so?

Maybe like four more generations, something like that. I look at the kids now that are coming up, and they don't have the same preconceptions that even I had coming up. If you're boxing if you're boxing you're boxing this way and and you know this is the right thing to do this is the wrong thing to do you know uh or or you taking you taking so many things and you're not really you're kind of stuck on it you know what i mean and i feel like each generation is getting a little bit better a little bit better i look at like some of the things that kids do now i'm like fuck like i want to like wish i could could be that free

and just kind of have that that creative process to do it you know uh it's gonna happen eventually i think yeah with little kids that are starting off like little amateur fights when they're like 10 years old and shit yeah so then i think about his kid, you know, and what's his kid going to look like? And then, okay, and then what's his kid going to look like? To where you will get somebody who is just perfect at whatever they do. That's a good point because it really is a big factor that Floyd had his dad, who was a world-class fighter, who fought Sugar Ray Leonard, and his uncle, Roger, was the Black Mamba. I mean, Roger Mayweather was the fucking man back in the 80s.

To see those two guys training him, that is gigantic. Grown up in that environment, always been around boxing. And they could tell him what to do and what not to do. Even when you get to that certain level, you don't know what you don't know until it's too late, almost. But he had people that he really respected. Your uncle and your pops, they're going to be the first people that you respect, and you've got to listen to them.

So I think it played a huge factor that people don't really look at. I think so too, and it's also seeing the mistakes that other fighters have made. When you're growing up in the gym, you're seeing guys that spar too hard or seeing guys that get hit too much or seeing guys that take the wrong fights or seeing guys that don't fight smart defensively you know one of the things that people forget is that floyd went through a big transition of his own if you go back to the early parts of his career and you watch when he was pretty boy floyd yeah he was a much more aggressive fighter and he would put himself in danger much more. And then when he became Money Mayweather, like as it got later and later in his life,

he just got so much more brilliant defensively, and then he became the guy that you see shutting out Canelo Alvarez, stopping all these guys, just shutting everything down. He just became this defensive wizard to the point where you'd see world-class fighters like Sugar Shane Moseley, who did tag him but other than that didn't really once he once he recovered he didn't really know what to do with floyd floyd just had the answers to his style he had figured him out yeah and i i

even see a lot of people uh because i i go by his gym from time to time you know it's and and i see like a lot of people that that are coming up in boxing who just want to right out the gate be what Floyd is now. You know what I mean? Be on the ropes and be able to slip punches. And, you know, but they forget, like, the time when he beat the fuck out of Arturo Gatti. Right. You know, and was no defense to it. He just came out and was throwing hands.

Like, they forget all the, like, amateur fights that he had before that he's won he's won and lost and you know he just had a different style of fighting so it's it takes time to get to that that that level you know what i mean the toro god fight was brutal oh brutal yeah yeah he's he's a monster i give him a lot of respect i do uh you know i mean not a lot of people do but they're crazy the man's just being him well he talks a shit, but you've got to separate that from what he does. When you watch him fight, the guy is defensively spectacular. He knows exactly. When you watch the Canelo fight, I've watched the Canelo fight at least three times, and when you watch him stand in front of Canelo, Canelo throws a left,

he's over here, he throws a right. He's over here. Pop! Take that jab with you. Oh, and I'm back here now. And Canelo's just whiffing, just throwing punches. You can see the look in his face. God damn it, I'm in here with a master. This is a master boxer, and I'm learning a lesson here. The good thing is

he learned that lesson the right way. And I look at him. Canelo's a monster. And a monster dude and he a monster defensively too yes you know you see some of his defense now and even me like i look at his head more like god damn you know he's uh against danny jacobs just a little while ago like his head movement was just on point that was a great fight because danny jacobs is a fucking killer yeah and i was pulling for jacobs but i had to i had to give it to canelo i'm like he really took what he learned from floyd and and yeah you know sometimes you need that you know

even like how you said me and george are kind of similar i tried to pick a fight with the man like i wanted to fight him of course because going into i was like hey win loser draw i'm gonna learn something from this motherfucker like for one he gonna know he was in a fight i'm gonna show up i'm gonna give him everything i got but i knew just for the future i'm like that a fight like that is just gonna propel you it's just gonna get better you better. I think he's going to wind up fighting Khabib. Probably. I think so. Probably.

That's what I think. I think if Dustin Poirier, if Khabib beats Dustin Poirier, Khabib is going to lobby for a fight with George. Yeah. That's what I think. And I think if Khabib beats George, I think he's going to retire. That's what I think. I think Khabib only has a few more fights left in him. I don't think he necessarily wants to fight for a long time. I think you're right. He's unde to retire. That's what I think. I think Khabib only has a few more fights left in him. I don't think he necessarily

wants to fight for a long time. I think you're right. He's undefeated. He smashes everybody. Yeah. You know, and I think he'll go down as one of the greatest

that ever did it. If he beats George. If he beats George. If he beats George. If he can even get George in there. I mean. If he can even get George in there. I mean,

who the fuck knows if that could ever play out. Yeah. I mean, who the fuck knows if that could ever play out. Yeah, I mean, I want that date with him. But we'll see how that whole thing will play out. It also, for the UFC, it wouldn't be for a title, which is a problem, apparently. When they have a problem with selling pay-per-views, one of the big problems is, and this is why, look, everybody goes, why do they have interim titles? The reason why they have interim titles is because people see that title and they click

that pay-per-view when they might not. That's real. It's a big factor. And it plays into your mindset as a fighter, too. Yes. And so George would have to come back. I mean, someone would have to beat Usman. Or they could do 165.

Or they could do 165. You know what I'm just saying? Dana said on the record. You do what you need to do. That doesn't mean that much because Dana's also said that women would never fight in the UFC. But Dana said on record there won't be a 165 while he's working there. We hear him. I hear him.

I don't like that thinking. I hear him, though, but, you know. I don't get it. I don't know why they wouldn't want to have more weight classes. Yeah. I don't get it. You can make the Khabib and george fight and it'd be nothing uh every time and george wants that fight too you know even just to say hi i mean you're a

cool motherfucker but george even more so i tried to pick a fight with him and like you know for real and he called me and we talked for like over an hour and he was like he was like explaining to me he's like listen i listen i cannot fight you right now i have to do gymnastic i can't do the uh the exit listen i can only do it if i talk to him recently if i haven't talked to him recently it goes away i forget it but he told me he was a great fighter but he wanted i am a better fighter than him and i and i feel it you know listen i feel it there's there's risk and reward you know what i mean sure i'm the type i just like taking a big risk you know more than anything uh but george is where you hope you are 10 years from now george is 36 years old sure right he's 36 or 37 he's in he's in that range he's 36 37 years old you know he's he did it all did it all you know he's now he's in the position where he's in he's in that range he's 36 37 years old you know he's he did it all did it all you

know he's now he's in the position where he's just trying to get them big fights oh shit yeah see he ain't got much time yeah no i feel and and even when he was explaining to me like i i was like man i really can't hate you for this like you you know you kept it like as straight as possible he's like you know it's just too much risk and you know it's like for what i'm sorry i get it like i get it bro make your money look i ain't gonna hate you know i try still and and i think he got it too he was like you know i get what he's a brilliant guy when you when you just see and talk to him and just the way he breaks down life the way he's thinking about life he's thinking about it very smart

very smart that's why when he won the title I was like yeah I'm good you can take it take that title I beat Michael Bisping

and I'm gonna just ride off into the sunset here for a little bit and be in a holding pattern and wait for the next big one to come around the next big challenge I feel it

I mean there's so much more to life too you know what I mean life is so big like even even for me like i'm it's only one part of me you know i mean it's the best part i think personally i feel like but you know there's this it's still so much more that i want to do and accomplish and get done you know the biggest problem with fighters, though, is that fighting is so crazy and so wild and spectacular and the highs and the lows. Finding whatever it is when you say there's so much more to life, finding that so much more to life is so difficult for so many fighters. Yeah.

And I think it's keeping your brain, too. Yeah. That might be the, you know, I don't know. I ain't nowhere close to that point to start thinking about it, but I'm like. But it's hard to know when you're at that point. Right, right, right. Until it's too late. Also, fighters are like the reason why you think you could beat everybody in the world

is the same thing that's going to get you fucked when you think that you could still go again. You know? I mean, that's what got Chuck Liddell in trouble when he fought Tito Ortiz. Most of us that were watching the outside were like, please don't fight him. Please don't fight anybody. When Chuck's talking about fighting Jon Jones, like, oh, good Lord. Please don't do that. Because he's like, you know, I think I can get back in there with Jon Jones.

Like, ooh, Jesus. Yeah, it's like Chuck. But that is why he became Chuck Liddell in the first place. Because he's got that unstoppable belief in himself but there needs to be balance yeah there needs to be balance that you can do anything you believe in that is horse shit anybody tells you you believe in that is horse shit you know there's there's certain people that will fuck you up yeah yeah yeah you got to be smart about it yeah you got to be smart yes but but I do think you can still do things that

you don't necessarily even know that you can do you know like i look at it now i'm like man i never thought that i would truly be like a professional fighter and be able to to live and support my family off this so i'm like you know 20 years from now how did that look i have no idea what what it might look like i have no idea what else I could possibly do. You could do anything. I firmly, absolutely believe that. It's just whether or not you dedicate yourself to it the same way you dedicate yourself to fighting.

Right, right. Yeah, I think anybody that can be a professional fighter at the highest level, that is an incredible juggling act of mind and body and discipline and technique and knowledge and understanding of the past and recognizing traps and and and intuition knowing when to strike knowing when to back off knowing when to push knowing when to coast it's just that's a mad fucking race

i mean what you're doing when you're fighting is the most chaotic thing in all of sport And if you could succeed at that at the highest level, I really believe you can do anything I really believe that yeah, and I think it takes a lot of I think it takes a lot more brainpower Then then then people kind of give it credit for it, you know, and I think that's a big reason why you see guys On the decline too, you know, uh And I think it's something that not a lot of people look at you know you kind of see it and you're like oh this guy's just out of his athletic prime or he's out of you know he's out of shape or whatever but really when you look at them you're like they don't

be that much more worn physically you know maybe certain guys go through like certain injuries and get surgeries and stuff and it's just not as strong as it was when he were 25 right i get that but i feel like fighting in particular it's it's so much more thinking power and you got to be quick and and maybe it's like the damage that they're taking to to their actual brain like they aren't processing information the same way not only is it physical but it's like it it only takes one slip up at the top level for a guy to catch you so you know if you if you if your brain just that that synapse ain't working perfectly right it's like that's lights out 100 and everybody looks at it's like oh well he's just out of shape he's just getting old and stuff like that but it might be something like no you're taking brain

damage in there you know yes yes and i think there's something that happens to fighters when they lose that belief that they can be the baddest motherfucker in the world. And that does happen with some fighters. They get a few losses and then they settle into that journeyman's position. And, you know, that's what Gustafson just said when he retired. He said, I don't want to be a journeyman. He retired. He said, I don't want to be a journeyman. That journeyman position is a weird position because you want to get in shape to win, to beat this guy, but you kind of know that you'll never be the man.

Yeah, yeah. Like say if you're a guy who's in that 205-pound division and you just keep losing, and then you see Jon Jones, who's the greatest of all time, just fucking everybody up, and you know you can't beat him. So you're training even when you're hitting the bag and running and all that stuff you know john jones fucked you up twice and you know he you can't beat him you know you can't beat him that keeps a lot of guys from having the same enthusiasm and passion that they had when they were 22 and they thought they could take on the world and they pictured themselves on the cover of fighters only magazine the greatest of all time you know everybody has these ideas of who they can be but when that idea has been shattered and now you're just a really good fighter some fighters just lose their enthusiasm for the game and then there's diego sanchez who doesn't seem to give a fuck about any of that and just dare to wreck people you you know what he's going backwards in time

his clock is turning backwards but but i think it's because he focuses on himself you know i mean he he don't uh diego's out of his mind for sure for sure but maybe maybe he's into his mind you know i mean maybe he's just so like focused on himself and you know even if you can't you know if you're looking at john and you're like man i ain't never gonna catch up to that level i'm just not gonna be that right then then yeah that can really like like you said like start to to really like discourage you a lot but then if you're just like okay i'm better than today than i was yesterday and you know my jabs like a little it's not as straight as it could be so let me just work on that and just pick the next

thing and just keep constantly going to that i feel like that's what real champions do you know they don't necessarily look at you know the the other person and diego you know even if he ain't got the belt he's still in his head like that's maybe how you're thinking of it i don't know you had to talk to him he seemed like a crazy dude but you need to be crazy though to do this shit you gotta be crazy there's all different kinds of crazy right yeah you know i mean when when i saw diego maul mickey gall i was like god damn look at this guy yeah yeah he just has lost no no enthusiasm zero zero loss in enthusiasm after all these years of fighting. You got to realize that guy won the Ultimate Fighter Season 1 in 2005.

We are now here. I was in ninth grade. 14 years later. No, I was in eighth grade in 2005. I wasn't even in high school yet. Jesus. 2005. It's crazy. Jesus. 2005. It's crazy.

Crazy. He beat Kenny Florian in the finals. Kenny's long since retired. You think of all the people he beat. Long since retired. It gives you hope a little bit. You know what I mean? I'm on a win.

Somebody else has done it, so it can be done. I think he's just into his own head and just like is constantly getting better. And that's really what the game is about anyway. Remember when he used to walk to the octagon screaming, yes? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

I would love it. He's so fucking crazy in the best way. Yeah, yeah. He's out of his mind. He's out of his mind. He's still one of my favorite guys to watch. Yeah, for sure for sure i mean there's a couple guys like that that kind of keep that that same longevity so

you know you you gotta look at the the past and kind of learn from other people's mistakes and you know see okay why how was this guy thinking like that you know when you when you look at gufson and you're like he really didn't want to be a journeyman i'd already lost to the two guys holding the title so you you look at that and you're like man you're kind of comparing yourself to to them a little bit too much you know like yeah you fought him and the result wasn't what you wanted but it's like okay that's that's just the game that's the good i think it's also he lives in Switzerland or Sweden. Sorry. It's fucking beautiful up there. You're probably sitting back.

He probably hunts and has a full life and everything. So you're like, man, why am I doing this shit? I'm about to go back out in front of my whole country and fight another person. Like, come on. The first time he fought in front of his whole country was when he got knocked out by Rumble. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rumble's the dude where I look back at guys

that kind of left the sport and I was like, oh, I get it. He's been fighting for a long time. He was wrestling before that. He didn't want to do it anymore. I get it. He'll come back.

But this, I don't know about it now, man, but the selfish part of me wanted to see Rumble get it together and fight for a title. Yeah. Again, I mean, not just fight when he fought DC, but. He's going to have to do it at heavyweight now. Yeah, he's so big.

He opened up a super heavyweight. I don't think it's a bad idea for him to fight at heavyweight. Remember when he fucked up Orlovsky at heavyweight? Yeah. Before the PFL was the PFL when it was the, what was it called? World Series. World Series of Fighting. Dude, he's a murderous striker.

Murderous. And the heavyweight division is actually a very good division for Rumble if you really think about it. With his speed and power first of all, he hits so fucking hard. It doesn't matter if someone's a heavyweight, light heavyweight it doesn't matter. The way he clips people, it's like Jesus.

I mean, there's a lot of good fights i will watch him here you know him and francis would be one oh my goodness they're both the type of uh uh guys like like francis is another one like he can just find your chin yep and it's like i've moved around with him a couple times and you know uh you moved around with francis i do some wild shit bro Dude Yeah I mean Is he gentle?

No he's cool He's cool He move around with like Little kids sometimes Wow Yeah he's He's like a gentle giant You know what I mean

Most guys that you Kind of see like that You kind of You kind of realize Like oh you know You a big ass teddy bear You know Now if you signed up

And say I can beat you Right yikes you're seeing a different side of him but we were just talking about the coolest dude in the world that if he decided to go into pro boxing instead of mma when he first started out he could be a world champion right now absolutely and like i say just moving around with him he he's got like these weird ways of like this the punch just comes at such an odd angle but it's like clean and it's like oh damn like okay i see what you're doing you know what i mean like i see what it is uh i mean that's the only reason why i move around with a guy like that is to try and see what figure it out

a little bit yeah but there's certain things you just can't teach a person and he's kind of got that you know he's got that that killer instinct heat sinking missile you can't teach a person. And he's kind of got that. He's got that heat-sinking missile. You can't teach that no matter how much you want to hit pads or whatever. Sometimes it's in there. He's a fascinating story, too, because after he lost to Stipe, I think he was absolutely convinced he was going to knock Stipe out and be the world champion. He thought he was unbeatable.

Stipe just shattered his confidence. And then he had that crazy fight with Derek where he was just like super tentative, didn't even pull the trigger. Just like, and he admitted, he said, I carried the fear of my last fight into the cage with me. And then he came out and starched Curtis Blades, you know, and then he came out and starched Kane after that. Like, okay, he's back.

Yeah, I think it took him some. Like, okay, he's back. Yeah, I think it took him some time to kind of. Get it back. Yeah, yeah, to understand what it is and what's going on, you know, and to learn from it, too. You know, he's so strong-willed and, you know, and he's, like, kind of got a different culture, too, you too, coming from Africa and Paris and everything. So when you talk to him, I mean, he's a super smart dude, super smart. But he's kind of like me a little bit where it can be hard to get through the head. You know what I mean?

I mean, I admit it. I'm a little stubborn sometimes, and I think he is, too, a little bit. So it can be hard for lessons to really sink in there but i feel like now like he he's one of those guys where yeah you can see it it's like coming together for him is he doing his camps in france now uh no he's been over in vegas so he did one of his camps yeah he did his last curtis blades yeah that fight yeah i'm not sure where he's doing his next camp or anything i don't know he's doing a lot of it at the performance institute right yeah yeah yeah is he getting good wrestling because that's the really the the a lot of it at the Performance Institute, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is he getting good wrestling?

Because that's really the thing that was exposed in the Stipe fight, right? He comes over to Extreme and he'll wrestle with us a lot. The problem is it's just heavyweights. It's not a lot of the bigger dudes.

And he's intimidating too. So when I sit back and I'll be watching him move around with certain guys, you can tell Like they be scared You know what I mean I don't blame them How could you

I don't blame them bro I don't blame them either I don't blame them either Dude he scares me When he's on the other side Of the cage Yeah yeah I get in there

I'm outside the cage And he scares me I've wrestled with him A couple times I really don't Really give a fuck But he's just so big It's hard

bro it's like i'm trying to get it you know i do my thing i try i'm a strong guy i hold my own well it's the heavyweight division is very interesting right now because i think a lot of people are sleeping on stipe and i know dc dc clocked him and knocked him out in that first fight but i think stipe is going to want to come back to the second fight with a vengeance, man. And, I mean, he was the most successful heavyweight champion of all time, and he loses the fight,

loses his title, can't get anyone to pay attention to him. All everyone's talking about Brock Lesnar, DC's going to fight Brock. He's like, Brock Lesnar doesn't even fight.

He's doing fucking WWE. Like, what is this shit? He goes, I am the most successful of all time. I'm the only guy to defend the title four times i lose one fight to a fantastic fighter and i can't get a fucking rematch like what is this about and then finally there's no one left in the division who else has

he got he's gotta fight him yeah that i mean that played out perfect for him and i'm so glad to see it too like stipe is one of the coolest dudes and so cool in the world bro and it's like what more do you have to do you know i mean like sometimes i get sick of of of just the way things are like i don't blame it on the ufc i don't blame it on on anything it's just sometimes that's just the way things are it's just the way people are to where like they they want to see like you act a fool they want to see that controversy and they want they want to see the negativity all the time yeah yeah it's like man it's it's like a dude like stipe if stipe can't get no love and he's like a firefighter like

legitimately saving lives on a daily basis while like training to death and being a world champion at it it's like man if a dude like that can't get no love, I don't stand a chance, bro. But, you know, I'm happy to see. Things are always going to work out the way they're supposed to work out. You know what I mean? I guess. But I just felt like the marketing of him could have been so much better. That was my feeling on it. It's like, how do you miss out on this hero?

Yeah, I mean. And a guy super exciting. I think it's just American culture, maybe. Because you see, like, 1FC doesn't necessarily be the same way, you know. And they're still doing great. I mean, time will tell how great they really do. But their way of marketing a guy and promoting them and everything is just so much different. It's like, does that work in America?

Is the problem? It's like people only want to see what they want to see. Like even about me, you know. Like people see me kind of hit Kiesa at the press conference and then that's all they really know about me. So that's all they really, you know, they think that's me. Or they even read wrong into that type of situation and they just think that's how you is. Did you ever talk to Kiesa after your fight with him? Yeah.

Are you guys cool? I'm cool he not i mean oh he's pissed still because of the choke no i think he's just mad away the whole situation but it's also the choke i mean it's almost like no he he would have been better off if he went to sleep yeah but he he knew i mean he even said it's like yeah i mean i mean he's mad that that the fight went down the way Young glassed it around. But I think he's more mad still that I hit him. The problem was it was so locked in to stop it right there.

Like, let him go out. Let him tap or go out. Yeah, but the thing is it's defend yourself. Yeah, but you don't stop a choke. You don't stop a choke. If the guy's awake, you don't stop a choke. That's true. That's true. I mean, there's been a couple situations where where you know that'll kind of happen and the guy will

stop defending himself and the ref will will stop it and the refs do tell you they're like they're like if you stop defending yourself then you know what what else is there to do i mean yeah they could have he could just let me choke him out and it'd been a little easier but for us as competitors competitors, we kind of know, you know, I think he just was more upset that it didn't go his way. Yeah, that it didn't go his way and that I hit him. But look, people even read wrong into that kind of situation. Like, I'm a cool dude. Like, I mean, I don't mean to say it like that, but I'm always going to give respect to everybody. You know, that's just the way I kind of am.

I'm always going to give respect to everybody. That's just the way I kind of am. Until you kind of diminish that respect for me, then I'm going to give it to you. So I was talking a little bit to him, and I'm kind of up there. I'm having fun. It's my first big press conference. I'm having fun at it. But the minute that he got up and ran across towards me,

it's like there's this dividing line almost. It's like as soon as you step over that, you're in my space now. It's too close. You can't let him hit you. Yeah, I'm going to hit you first. That's just the way I – Well, you also – you're in a defensive position. You have to hit him almost. Yeah, yeah.

Once someone comes at you and they're right there, like, oh, this is a fight. Yeah, it is a fight yeah it's a fight i mean i that's just the way i grew up you know is anytime in these bodies some somebody is gonna you know invade your space like you're not gonna wait like i'm not gonna sit there and see what you want to talk about you guys could rematch sometime at 170 nobody's at 170 it's very possible it's very possible a lot of good fights well he was another guy that had a real hard time making that weight. He's a big fella.

Yeah, yeah. I mean. Big old back on him. And for me, it's like I've always just wanted a fair fight. So, you know, we can weigh in at whatever, you know. It's even with me and Dos Anjos, I was saying, you know, let's weigh in at 165 and just kind of shut a hand. He didn't want to do it. But I'm like, I just want a fair fight out of the deal, you know.

It's whatever you want to weigh in so you guys want to shake hands to fight it to weigh in at 165 just to show that this weight class is a viable weight class i tried to he wouldn't do it yeah he said uh i don't make uh agreements with my opponents and i was like come on you know like this is our problem in the first place this is why i ain't no union or nothing you know i mean like everybody's like against each other like come on bro we fighting anyway what do you think about the idea of a union i mean i think it's i think it's inevitable you know i think so yeah i think eventually it's it's gonna happen um how would it happen yeah i think it's once the ufc the ufc is gonna change a little bit i feel like it's it's once the UFC is going to change a little bit, I feel like.

It's just the same way that I'm kind of looking at the way that Facebook has been doing stuff and all these other companies, like these large private companies, but they're so big. And it's like the UFC is a sports organization, you know what I mean? But it's so big now to where, like, I mean, it's damn near a sport. It's like it's damn near public, you know what i mean but it's it's so big now to where like it's i mean it's damn near a sport it's like it's it's damn near public you know so i think once that kind of changes and people like once they open up the books and like people really start to pay attention to it then maybe somebody on the outside who's way smarter than any one of us or you know because we're we're fighting we ain't really worried about the the the legalities of it and

you know i'm just signing a contract i don't really give a fuck but once somebody who's smarter kind of takes a look at it and see what's going on and and how it is then uh then they're going to start up something i mean they they have to i wonder i think it would take some sort of crazy lawsuit i would imagine but i think that fighters are individuals in that they think of themselves. And that if you say, hey, I'm going to join the union. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. If you say, hey, I'm going to join the union. I'm going to sit out until you guys meet the demands of the union.

And they go, oh, that's great. Colby Covington is going to take your place. Now he's going to fight for the title. And then you're like, what the fuck? And then you call Dana. Hey, man, I changed my mind my mind fuck that union i'm with you guys and that's how it goes that i mean yeah yeah but it's kind of a a shame on our part almost it's like it's the same way as is i said let's meet at 165 it's like we already don't have a lot of leverage bro like we you know yeah there's only so many things that we could even do.

I understand Dos Anjos, though. He's like, fuck, we're going to fight anyway. I don't want to cut that extra five pounds. I get it, and I didn't do it either. I'm like, bro, you've already fought at 170. I'm already taking a loss here. I'm like, I'm not going to give you too many advantages here. But do UFC, do you feel like they treat you well?

Yeah. They like you, obviously. You're in their good graces. Yeah. Honestly, I have no real complaints about it. I know what I'm signing a line. I mean, I know what I'm signing up for. And anytime I do and I say I'm going to do something, I'm always going to make sure I hold up my end and I'm going to do it.

And it's afforded me so much to where my life is so much different than I thought it would be. I truly thought that everything would just look different, you know, and I've provided a better life for my family, like my mom, my dad, and my brothers, like, well, my one brother, at least. But, you know, it's just afforded me so much that any like negatives on it like i can't really it's just like grievances almost yeah no i understand i understand what you're saying have you ever been approached by other organizations uh before getting into the ufc yeah um then i mean maybe a little bit here and there but you know like when you see guys like sage northcutt go over to 1FC

and Eddie Alvarez and Mighty Mouse Johnson. I mean, it's all good for the sport in general. I think even the UFC sees that. Competition is always good. It's just building even more and bigger and better. And it's really the sport that we're looking after. So if a – I mean, I've been in a contract with the UFC for a long while now,

but, you know, if another organization was to ever, you never know what the, you know, I never know what the future's going to hold.

Like, what if Bellator really blows up? Nah. They change their name? I mean, nah. That name's a goddamn anchor.

Yeah, it's true. Bellator. What does that mean? Yeah. You got a bowling ball, metal bowling ball around your neck. Yeah, kind of. I mean, I don't know.

For me, I'm getting that. UFC is where it's at. 100%. You don't want it to be too many organizations either. You know what I mean? Right. Then it's like WBC, WBA with boxing. You can't get them to fight.

It's like, that's terrible. That's right. I don't want to be a part of that. That's kind of a problem now. I mean, with Douglas Lima. Douglas Lima's a world that's terrible. That's right. I don't want to be a part of that. That's kind of a problem now. I mean, with Douglas Lima. Douglas Lima's a world-class fighter. You know, Rory McDonald's a world-class fighter. These guys are world champion caliber.

Rory McDonald could absolutely be a world champion in the UFC. He beat Tyron Woodley. Yeah, I mean, I think I want to be a part of keeping it all together, too. You know what I mean? I'm not going to be selfish and be like, oh, well, one's going to pay me way more money, so I'm going to go over there and do that. I'm a huge fan of the sport in general too, so I want to see the sport do good.

And having us all under one roof definitely does help. It's also being a UFC champion just fucking means more. Way more. It just means way more. Way more. And I'm going to do it. Yeah, you find out a guy's a Bellator champion, you're like, congratulations. Yeah, yeah. You find out a guy's a Bellator champion, you're like, congratulations.

Yeah. Yeah. You find out a guy's a UFC champion, you're like, oh, shit. Yeah. Yeah. That's a different level. And I would even want to keep that integrity about it, you know, and just for myself, you know what I mean?

To, you know, just to know that that's what you did. You say you're going to do it, like, that's what you did. I think there's a wake-up call, though, when guys are going over and fighting in these other organizations. They're realizing now, man, they are world-class fighters that you don't know about over in one FC in particular. Timothy Natsuyukin, the guy that knocked out Eddie Alvarez, that motherfucker is world-class. There's world-class fighters everywhere, bro. Yep. Everywhere.

You got to treat everybody with the same you know it's different world yeah it's it's different but it's still like dudes will knock you out oh yeah i mean it's a different world now i'm saying that like you go over these other organizations it's not a cakewalk yeah they're they're just as hard and just as dangerous as ufc fighters you know when sage fought you saw the the sage result that cosmo alexandra guy that he fought like that guy's a beast man yeah and i'm all for taking big risk i really am and trying to take the biggest hardest fight that you can but somebody like that was like somebody should have probably got in sage here and was like hey listen like this dude's a legit world champion kickboxer you know i just fought nikki holskin

you know that's a huge level of of uh uh experience that you're talking about coming from fighting somebody like zach ottawa to you know he's like that's a a huge jump. That's the Grand Canyon with a scooter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just sometimes the biggest risk ain't necessarily the smartest either. You can legit get hurt in this sport. It's a sport, but it's real life too. You can legit get hurt. You can lose your life.

Yes, I agree. And also particularly because sage is not a wrestler yeah you know so he's gonna stand stand up with this dude with four ounce gloves on and had never fought in a ring before i don't at least i don't think i mean i don't know but when you watch that fight and you see the way he was moving it's like he didn't expect that punch to come he didn't expect him to be able to cut him off like that when you look at a ring i mean it's it's it's a it's 180 degrees right there so you only have one way to move never moved that way you know yes that's a really good point actually i didn't even consider that whoever is you know his coaches should have been like listen like we need to work our way up there you know what i mean or yeah or

uh i think they might have had a false misconception of going over to one and one treating them real good and they're going to give you a good fight so you know they're going to build you i think one is signing guys to be like we got some legit talent over here we're going to sign you you're going to make your money but uh you're going to earn that money yeah i mean it's not like they threw him right to the top champions either. They threw him to a world-class fighter. They've got world-class talent over there. They really do. So does Bellator now.

I feel like Douglas Lima is as good as any 170-pounder in the world. When he just knocked out Michael Venom Page, holy shit! Brutal, too. Holy shit! Gegard Mousasi is absolutely one of the best 185 pounders in the world you know I mean he's as world-class as they get yeah and there's so much talent like you do need to keep it all under one umbrella though I think you know as a fan of the sport

yeah is and it's better for those fighters too you know like I I'm a competitor so I I want to compete against the best of the best I don't want like a bunch of you know like where it's better for us fighters, too. I'm a competitor, so I want to compete against the best of the best. I don't want a bunch of where it's boxing where you can't make two fights happen because this promoter doesn't work with this promoter. And you've got to go through three, four years. And the whole time, a guy like Joshua is kind of sitting back and like, man, I don't know. I don't get to fight these guys so i really don't

know how good i am or or something uh where instead you just like let's just go out there and compete and the later chips out and wherever they fall is where they're gonna fall you only get to be able to do that if everything's under one roof yeah i'm really uh enthusiastic and hopeful about this espn deal too because i think that's going to expose a lot more people to the sport because there's so many people that are just casual sports fans that always have the the tv on espn i mean that is america's network for sports and they're good too they're good like working with them for this last uh uh fight and yeah you're getting ready to do the build up and everything and just seeing the way that they do certain things there's like there's no fat on it you know there's no like there's no lag there's no delays

there's no you know uh it's just everybody's just on on top of their game like they're real professionals at it so beautiful yeah i think i love hearing that yeah i think it's gonna be big i've been very impressed with their promotion too the way they promote things where they put things together even the way they handle social media it's a notch up and you can tell like that they they're just have so much experience in sports i mean they're forever right i mean they're the leaders forever it's beautiful i think uh you know social media is gonna probably be the last little little leg up that because our sport is living and died on it yeah almost yeah uh and that's gonna be like i've been shying away from it like i don't really fuck with it like that no more just

because i don't think it's right you know what i mean i think eventually it's gonna change and it's gonna get to be way better and then once that happens like then the sport really like shoot what do you mean like in what way What don't you think is right about it? I just don't like, you know, I haven't been getting on it lately just because for me it was like I started noticing that it was changing my outlook on things. Like it was like I was almost doing stuff for the purpose of putting it on social media or i wasn't like enjoying my life as much i was more so worried about like how it was going to look or you know what how i can use this and i was always constantly like scheming and plotting uh and it's just i didn't think it was healthy and i and then i started to see the effect that it was having on other people too and and or just people around me

and in general it's like i was noticing it was terrible for my little brother and and i think it's terrible for kids in general and it just made it to where everything was so you only got to see little glimpses of things you know what i mean people take the perfect picture and the perfect little angle and all this so that's just what you see and you only going to see the the the shine and the glitz and the glamour and stuff. So when a young kid is looking at that, he's like, and he's going to see thousands of likes on it too, you know. And that's what everybody likes. So it just almost makes you feel like, man, that's what I should be.

You know what I mean? And when you're not that, then it can give you such a dangerous outlook on yourself to where you'll do something stupid to be that. Yeah. To where I feel like it's going to change. It's going to be different. How so? What do you think is going to happen? A couple of weeks ago, I saw that they were talking about taking away the likes, that you aren't going to see it.

People would jump off buildings. Oh, bro, I would love that, though. I would get back on it. I'd be on Instagram full-fledged. They said they were thinking about taking away the number of followers, too, so you couldn't see how many followers other people have. I don't see why not. I don't see why you need to see it. I don't see why, you know, I guess for the-

You just need to know how ridiculous it is. Sometimes I'll see someone, what kills me is when I look in like the search area and there's some girl doing squats and a thong and I was like let me see how many followers she has 18 million

what yeah but but my thing is what good does that do you know what I mean makes me happy cause it's so crazy

but even even like you know it's huge in fighting and stuff but you know i look on it and like certain people have like millions of followers and this and that but does that necessarily translate to to anything tangible you know i mean anything real it's like i don't

necessarily know i don't know what the i don't know if anybody's done any studies and like really looked at that to see uh but i don't necessarily think it does and i don't really think it matters i think the only thing it does is like playing to your own head where you like you know oh he's getting so many likes or you you post something you're like oh man i get this many likes and stuff but it's like it doesn't doesn't matter you know i guess for the the only way i can see it mattering is for the algorithms you know people like to see what other people like right so that makes sense but we don't necessarily have to see that right you know i mean if if like what ray rod is doing his videos

love them i'm gonna look at them whether they got a hundred likes or they got a hundred thousand you know i'm gonna follow him whether he's got a million followers or a hundred followers you know what i mean yeah i think that's probably the way it should be more because that seems more like real life yeah i get what you're saying um but in this day and age everybody wants to they want to know oh this is the number one show on like netflix is an interesting thing because you never know what the fuck netflix ratings are you have no idea if you watch like say ozark or something like that no one has any idea other than netflix netflix ratings are you have no idea if you watch like say ozark or something like that no one has any idea other than netflix netflix knows they don't tell you shit like when i do comedy specials on netflix they go we love it thank you but here's the thing it don't stop me

from watching it that's true you know i mean and if anything it makes it a little better you know what i mean like right i think so at least because because now you got your own little thing that you that you kind of getting into i don't't really like following the crowd that much. Maybe that's the way I'm thinking about it. But, you know, it don't stop me from watching it. I wonder if they actually do that. I wonder if they do do that if engagement will go down. I'm sure Netflix, you know, when you look at Netflix's model, I'm pretty sure that algorithm is showing like, okay, this is getting this many likes.

Let's put this on the front page. So more people are going to click on it that makes sense i mean you don't necessarily have to see how many people watch it you know um well netflix does it also for negotiation purposes sure like say when i do a special like i know my last special got more views than my first special but i don't know how many it got they don't tell you shit they just say we're very happy we're very very happy but tell me how many people are watching we can't tell you that why how come you can't tell me they're laughing we're very happy now you're very happy what the fuck does that mean tell me how many people well if it makes you feel better you'll see us doing that now with espn like you

don't know how many pay-per-views that's getting well you know that's the problem it's not many the first one they did was less than a hundred thousand yeah that's not good when you consider that you know that was a giant fight you know max holloway dustin poyer big ass fucking fight a hundred thousand not even a hundred thousand buys but that takes away from our our uh value as fighters you know i mean because that's what i'm saying you don't truly get to see it that's also because of streaming because this transition to espn plus and it's going to take a while before everybody realizes 100 this is the only way you're going to get the pay-per-view it's the only way you're going to watch the fights you got to get the app yeah that's a great app it's going to take a while all the time i have it on i have apple tv at home so i watch it on that

seamless i like it yeah i mean me too but then But then again, I'm going to follow on wherever they go. But DAZN is the same way too. Like I watched the Joshua Ruiz fight. I watched that on DAZN. That's fucking excellent. It's the same thing. Yeah, I mean, and the numbers from stuff like that is like, that's what I mean. I think eventually it's going to change to where we're really going to see the true numbers.

It's going to have to because. I mean. I think eventually it's going to change to where we're really going to see the true numbers. It's going to have to because— I wonder. Because when you see Canelo Alvarez make $25 million or whatever he did in his last fight, and then you hear he's only got 800,000 subscribers that signed up for DAZN, but then you look at— There's only 800,000 subscribers on DAZN? That's what I heard at least. No.

That can't be true. Google how many subscribers does DAZN? That's what I heard at least. No. That can't be true. Google how many subscribers does DAZN have. D-A-Z-N. I was calling it DAZN forever. No, no, no, man. It's DAZN. I'm like, well, you need a fucking O and an E. Yeah, right.

But then you look. I mean, I don't know. Jamie will probably pull up the number. But then when you look at like on the same night Al fought Cowboy, which was a way better fight too. It was an amazing fight. Great fight. But ESPN, I don't know how many numbers. They don't say the numbers of subscribers, but it's got to be comparable.

Right. But that was a free fight. You didn't have to. See, the thing is about espn plus you get free fights and then you get pay-per-views so the cowboy versus al i quinta fight was a great fight but it was free so if you got that app you just watch the fight but i think the zone is same way you don't you don't have to buy them you just pay per month yes yes but the ufc for pay-per-view is not so when you get a pay-per-view fight, you have to pay.

So that's a little weird, right? Maybe make it a little more money. Make it $10 a month and give everybody everything. That would be crazy. That was what WWE did. Yeah. And it was a huge success. They'll probably figure that out.

But it took a while. It was rocky. Pay-per-view model is old. Four million. Four million subscribers to DAZN. That makes sense. That's a press release they had from their vice president of North America is old. Four million. Four million subscribers to DAZN. That makes sense. That's a press release they had from their vice president of North America said that. You might be lying.

On a TV show. I don't know. That's worldwide subscribers or North American subscribers. I don't know. That doesn't matter. It's internet. It doesn't matter. So four million people.

Maybe you're right and this guy's full of shit. No, no. That's possible too. No, I think that's totally right. No, I think, yeah, that's totally right. But it limits your ability to negotiate, right? Because you don't know. Like with DirecTV, like, hey, DirecTV says there's 700,000 pay-per-view buys.

Big hit. Everybody's happy. You get a piece of that. Like, oh, boy, we got this much money coming in. Like, how are they doing deals now for pay-per-view? I don't know. I don't know. I ain't gotten to renegotiating yet.

After your fight, do they give you a window of time before they contact you and hit you up with another fight? How does that work? Knowing me, I wanted to get back in there in August. What's up, Jamie? I'm now reading that they were were publicly saying that uh one point more than 1.2 million people watched worldwide uh canelo's last fight so that's a way that's way less well that's not that many because it's free right once you have the zone that's free which is

interesting but the ufc has a different model than that only thing i mean is canelo gets 25 million and then uh you know alan cowboy get about 100 grand a piece so it's like you know where's the value in this going on and then it's not even canelo i think like three fights uh down you know on the card like that guy got like 100 grand i don't even know his name really yeah i mean well when you look at the purse out can guy got like 100 grand. I didn't even know his name. Really? Yeah. I mean, when you look at the purse out. Canelo got like a $600 million deal. That's stupid. Something insane, right? And didn't they just sign Tyson Fury to something similar like that with the SPN?

He got some crazy similar deal as well. And Anthony Joshua was with DAZN. It's another crazy deal. It's all weird right now, right? Everybody's trying to figure out what the future is, and they're banking on streaming, which I think is the correct bet. Yeah. I mean, it's all weird right now right everybody's trying to figure out what the future is and they're banking on streaming which i think is the correct bet yeah i mean it's it's changing everything is at least everything i think is gonna gonna change it's just it's just taking a little bit of time before it all we surprised around right at uh cowboy and ally quinto we surprised at that result no no not really the way uh uh i'm surprised it went that long you know i mean i

thought uh the only way cowboy or the only way al was gonna win is if he would have knocked him out uh early um it's just the kicks would have been too much and they was like i think that first left switch kick that he threw and kind of caught al on top of the head a little bit uh i think that yeah that was i wasn't necessarily surprised cowboy's been on his game for sure he's been on his game lately which brings up this weekend yeah tony ferguson yeah cowboy serrani holy shit fight oh i'm so excited about that fight i see it going to Tony, though. Really? At first, I didn't.

I thought that Cowboy's just too on his point. Cowboy's timing might be a little bit better. And Tony does get hit, so that's something to look at. But I think Tony's just unorthodox movements and the way he punches uh and moves his head at the same time as throwing punches cowboy likes to kind of leave his head up there and maybe get hit to the body or something so tony's relentless he's relentless that motherfucker never gets tired and he keeps coming out yeah yes yes it's a three-rounder because it's the third fight below the main main event so the main event is sahudoudo marlon morais which is another phenomenal fight

yeah yeah marlon's got a lot of power oh he's got everything yeah that's a big 135 or two that dude's jacked that's a big uh that's a that's like a big risk going up for pseudo i think you know and you know he's such a champ though he's been at at the top of multiple sports for so long that he's got so much experience he he's gonna know how to handle. He's been at the top of multiple sports for so long that he's got so much experience. He's going to know how to handle it right. But that's a good fight. It's better than people are giving him credit for, for sure. Yeah.

He just wants to be champ champ, you know. There's only two champ champs. He wants to be number three. Well, there's three champ champs. I'm sorry. Because... Can we call this something else? Amanda Nunes. Amanda Nunes, yeah, yeah. Can we call this something else? Amanda Nunes

Amanda Nunes, yeah Can we call this something else? You know, like Champ Champ Why don't you like it? Because there's too many of them now I like it I like when you call him Champ Champ When DC became Champ Champ

I got excited, man But then when you defend the belt You know For two or three times Are you Are you Champ Champ then? You know what I mean this you won the title twice and defended it you should be champ champ then but when you win two divisions you are champ

champ you stop fucking around kevin lee i'm hating you can't take away amanda nunez's champ champ if she decides to never fight a featherweight again, she is champ champ. Period. Yeah, you're right. That woman's a straight up murderer. You are right, but I wish we called it something different. No, no, no. Champ champ's perfect.

You just mad that Conor invented it. Yeah. I ain't going to lie to you. What's the matter, Jamie? Do you know Rumble's not fighting, but he's got an event soon. Dude, that's a dangerous fight if you want to keep your knees. Craig Jones is no goddamn joke. Craig Jones is a heel-hooking motherfucker.

Really? Yeah, Craig Jones is at the top of the food chain in the submission grappling world, but he's not as big as Rumble. But I don't think anybody's drug testing. But that means they're not drug testing Rumble. So i don't even know if they have to weigh in i don't think they're gonna weigh in they're calling it like david versus goliath match so i don't believe oh yeah open weight oh it was going to show up 350 pounds i wonder what rumble's gonna weigh because craig jones has been grappling i want to i want to say he's probably around 215, 220, long guy.

He's not incredibly ripped. But the submission grappling world is very strange because there's no real drug testing to speak of. And everybody kind of knows that everybody's kind of juiced up. They're from Brazil. It's not even Brazil. Craig Jones is from Australia. No, I mean, but I just mean the community. Some of those guys, yes. You know what I mean? But not even Brazil Craig Jones is from Australia No I mean But I just mean Some of those guys The community

You know what I mean But I don't know I don't think it comes That much into play In grappling You know It's so much technique

And leverage involved It comes into play It helps you train Much longer Much harder It helps you be stronger Especially with no gi Probably does

You know I think in no gi Well I think it works with gi too. It's just, look, it's physical. It's a physical thing. You get two guys, one guy's on juice, one guy doesn't. The guy who's on juice has some sort of an advantage if they're both technically similar.

But that's a tough fight for Rumble in that Craig is used to being on the bottom and he's used to fighting with with inside control of the legs like i don't know what kind of rumble what kind of leg lock game rumble has what is this dennis hallman oh yeah the crazy thing is um dennis hallman went for a fucking heel hook here and craig jones was like nope yeah not a good idea yeah he fucked his leg up not a good idea yeah i feel like that's gonna be the next little evolution that you see in mma it's like he's leg locks yeah i think so too i've really like started to incorporate it a little bit into into my game yeah uh it's it's a especially against wrestlers like i would be a

little worried uh if i was uh uh in rubble's corner for that because wrestlers are a little more susceptible to to leg locks for sure so i feel like that's going to be like the next little level that you see you have to understand the system and i don't i'm not a leg lock guy it's hard yeah i see the transitions but if i was on the mat with them i wouldn't be a step ahead i wouldn't be able to like know where they're going and i would have to react as it's happening which is a giant disadvantage and i don't know what rumble knows i know he was a great wrestler and but rumble's big thing was never submitting people's fucking people up standing up yeah i mean i think the best way is just to try and disengage from them and just not let them have your legs it's just that's easier

said than done good luck with all that with Craig Jones. It's just the thing with those guys is when you're rolling with someone who is that high level with submissions, you are reacting, and they know how you're going to react, and they're anticipating your reaction, and they have a counter to your reaction. And you're always one step behind. So you can explode and explode and explode,

and eventually you get a little tired and then whoop whoop. And Hickson used to talk about that. He's like, they can't keep the rhythm. That's what I always say. They can't keep the rhythm. Because they just keep going. They keep attacking and you just can explode and explode and show everybody how athletic you are.

But after a while, that shit wears out. And then next thing you know, you're wrapped up in something. Yeah, and I think they see more guys like you. You know what know i mean they see more guys that are just trying to to you know they see a lot of wrestlers and a lot of guys just try those same kind of defenses where you not seeing that many guys that are good at lead locks like that right especially to the point where now they're starting to understand it way more technically than you know like pajares style of just like grab your foot and just try and, like, squeeze the shit off. Well, Pajaras had some good technique, but it wasn't as complex as, like, you know,

Eddie Cummings or something like that. Yeah, yeah. I don't mean Pajaras in general. I just mean that style of doing it. You know, some guys you just see, like, they just grab your foot and just will twist it the way it ain't supposed to go. Right, right, right. But, you know, when you look at a guy like Donah's style, and he's breaking it down like a mad scientist.

He's like, you know, there's literally going to be no way that you're going to get out of those different levels of it. Well, you've seen that with Gary Tonin now in MMA. Yeah, yeah. Gary Tonin was fighting over in one. He just submitted the shit out of somebody with an inside heel hook. Has he fought against him? Yeah, he just fought real recently. He just fought like a week ago.

Oh, wow. Yeah, Gary Tonin, he's fought real recently. He just fought like a week ago. Oh, wow. Gary Tonin, he's going to be a world champion. I really believe that. Yeah, I've seen his first like two maybe. Well, he's undefeated. He's 4-0 now. Oh, okay. And it's just the way he's winning too.

He's fucking people up and he's super dedicated and he's just real smart. And with a guy like Donaher in his corner, Donaher is another guy. And he's also, by the way, he's just real smart. And with a guy like Donaher in his corner, Donaher is another guy, and he's also, by the way, he's locked up with Firas Ahabi. They're all in cahoots together. They train together. But Donaher's got a special brain.

He really does. He has a special understanding of submissions. Yeah, I want to talk to that guy. Yes, you should. I want to meet him. You definitely should. Go get on down to New York. Yeah, he's the type of –

Visit DeHenzo's. Yeah, he's the type of visit to henzo yeah he's the type of dude i said i'll talk six hours with him like because he seems like he's got that you know systematic way of of breaking stuff down so yeah you know i kind of like that uh because it takes the guesswork out of it you know what i mean it takes the what if he does this oh well then he's got an answer for it what if he does this he's got an answer yeah you know what i mean it takes the what if he does this oh well then he's got an answer for it what if he does this he's got an answer yeah you know uh that's why i feel like i'm kind of missing it like well i necessarily that in my game but yeah i think that would be a great addition to anybody's game just to train down there and understand what that guy's doing or i mean there's a there's quite a few different systems now and then like you got like craig jones who's coming like i said from

australia he's got he's got a very similar system too. Everybody's got different approaches to it. But what Donaher did and that Henzo Gracie team did is they just kind of like proof of concept. Just let everybody know, hey, you're missing out on a giant chunk of this thing. And a giant chunk of this thing is all the variables that come into play when guys are trying to rip each other's knees apart. Yeah. Yeah. And it kind of goes back to even like, you know, those individual sports are so ahead of ours a little bit, you know.

Like what we were talking about earlier when you're seeing world-class jiu-jitsu fighters or world-class Muay Thai fighter. They're just better at that thing than the guys who do everything. Yeah. So, I mean, a couple of years ago you saw more like jiu- jujitsu going to back attacks and you know uh arm bars were like really big in it um and now you then they kind of went through like the leg lock era and i feel like we kind of stuck on the back attack kind of arm bar and eventually we'll move over to to uh being able to pull off leg locks because now you're seeing a lot of jujitsu guys kind of get away from leg lock and starting to under the defense is starting to catch up a little bit um i didn't get to go to worlds to

to see it but you know i'm i i always like to stay one step ahead of it and see where it's going you know and what's on the other side of it it's interesting that in worlds they were weighing the fighters before they got onto the mat that's how you weighed in yeah you had to make weight with your gi on at the side of the mat and then you drink some water and then go roll so they're trying to discourage any and all weight cutting that works if you're not getting hit you know i mean right that works right right uh when you talk about like dudes punching each other some guys are still gonna cut weight and that's too big of a risk to take. Terrible.

Dangerous. Yeah, very, very dangerous. Very dangerous. Your brain is, you know, and this was even an idea that I had kind of had. I wonder why nobody creates some type of fluid-filled headgear of of some sort you know what i mean like when you think about like your brain like your brain's surrounded by that blood that fluid and that's really what what's protecting it you know more so than even like the the thickness of your skull or anything so when you're putting you know i i get why they like boxing amateur boxing is starting to take

away the headgear because they're saying it's making it more dangerous it's really only helping the guy who's punching you you know when you punch somebody with a headgear you can go like full blast it's also their head snaps more because there's weight on the neck exactly yeah yeah it's it's it's actually making it worse you know uh where if you had something that was fluid feel kind of recreating the inside of your head, then that would absorb and shake the water. You know, almost like those water bags. You know, when you hit those, like you can feel like it's a little, it absorbs the impact a little bit different.

Yeah. I just wonder. I mean, it's probably not a good idea. Like maybe if you bust it and you got water fucking flowing everywhere or something, that's a big deal. But I think you're right.

That makes sense. If they could design it correctly and figure out a way to disperse the impact better. Yeah. That's a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

I don't know. They, they should just do some serious testing on it. I don't know why. I'm part of the Cleveland Clinic over in Vegas. They've got this study going on for a couple of years where they take you in and they run you through an MRI scan and they do all these different types of tests on you. A lot on the computer, like testing your reaction skills, testing your balance, testing all the different parts of your

brain. It's been a couple of years now. I think i've been part of them for like four years i go in uh twice a year to to get it done but that just seems like it's gonna take so long before you really notice anything and when you do that do they tell you your results based on how you were six months ago yeah they they give me they i i actually just ask for the mri scans because they tell you and they're just like, yeah, no, you're fine. Like, you know, like your results are because it's kind of the same test that you're taking over and over and over again. So you just kind of match them up to how you did last time. And, you know, if you scored a 98 on the last one, you scored 98 on this one. It's like, OK, that's cool. You know, yeah, you're fine.

But to me, I asked them for the actual MRI scans. I don't know how to read an MRI like that. Right. But, you know, because I want to see, like, even the – it's got to be deeper than that. It's got to be deeper than 2 plus 2 and, you know, all this shit. Like, there's got to be something more to it. Like, they should just do a study where they take a ballistic hit and hit it a bunch of times and see what's happening

to the brain of it you know what I mean right right let Francis punch it yeah see what's happening like I want to know you know

I think and I think fans like want to know like you don't want to give your brain to this shit right you know and it's like

and then you can do stuff where you put something over put a headgear on it see if it makes it worse put a like I said water headgear

do you think they're ever going to get to a point where they'll have a study that they can like a test like that they could do in a fighter and they'll say hey man you can't fight anymore yeah for sure they really don't have that right now which is why they let chuck liddell fight tita ortiz right yeah i i think uh uh just like mr like an mri you know like a couple years ago you know you wouldn't be able to get the same type of imaging. And now when you see like some of the stuff that they're really coming out with medically, I think that's going to advance so much more to where you're going to really be able to see like the individual neurons and stuff like that. And you're going to see like, OK, you're breaking up these parts of your brain that we couldn't see before. You know, you couldn't see with an x-ray.

You couldn't see it with an MRI. A lot of times they can't see until the autopsy. Right, right. So hopefully as technology improves and as we get better on that front, then we can just start to take some of that technology and use it for what we're doing, you know? Yeah. Well, Kevin Lee, it's been a blast. Let's do it again in six months. that technology and use it for what we're doing you know yeah well Kevin Lee

it's been a blast let's do it again six months let me know what happens a year a year will be a year a year will be

beautiful thank you brother appreciate you man Kevin Lee ladies and gentlemen you