The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #71 with Rico Verhoeven

Episode Date: July 24, 2019

Joe is joined by Glory Kickboxing Heavyweight Champion Rico Verhoeven.

and boom right when you take a drink of water that's when we go live always that's when we go live what's up my friend good to see you good thanks for having me bro my pleasure i'm a big fan i've been a fan for a long time so much and i'm very excited about this badahari rematch so we were just talking about it that's going to be in december yes sir yeah it's going to be huge i think it's going to be the biggest fight in kickboxing history i think it's already yeah i mean you were just saying that the tickets go on pre-sale today i think yeah today or tomorrow so yeah um where is it going to be held is it in holland yeah it's going to be in holland yeah it's um it's called the the helder dome and how many seats is that i believe around 25 30 000

wow so that's crazy how big kickboxing is in Holland as opposed to America. Yeah, it's Holland, Europe. It's a lot bigger than it is here. So I do not for the life of me understand why it hasn't taken off in America. I don't get it. Well, I think the step of going to MMA than to kickboxing is so much closer. For example, from high school,

it's so much more logical when you do wrestling, you do a little bit of boxing, well, let's jump into MMA then because it's so close to each other. And when you go to kickboxing, it's totally different. Right.

It's totally different. But so many people in America, when they watch MMA, they want guys to stand up. Yeah, I know. That's why it doesn't make any sense. But so many people in America, when they watch MMA, they want guys to stand up. Yeah, I know. That's why it doesn't make any sense. But still, I think every country is very patriotic. They want their own guys to be very good at something.

Sort of. But when Anderson Silva was at the top of the heap in MMA, everybody wanted to see him fight. It didn't matter that he was from Brazil. Yeah, that's true. In America, they still wanted to see him fight yeah it didn't matter that he was from brazil yeah that's true in america they still wanted to see him fight he's just they want to see high level stuff it's just everyone here is such a fan of knockouts yeah and striking and high level striking i just don't understand it no muay thai too you can muay thai doesn't sell at all no you mean there's no big muay thai events like they had a pro muay thai league event here and it was in like nikki holtzkin fought on it and um bull kyle and uh a few other big name guys

um fought on it but it's like you know nobody in the crowd no but also like muay thai is also with the clinching and they hold too long. I think it's a little bit boring. What we do with Glory now is more commercial. You can hold just for three seconds and then break and then continue fighting. And in the end, that's what people want to see. I get that, but I like clinch work too. And I like elbows. Elbows and knees in the clinch. what people want to see I get that But I like clinch work too And I like elbows

Elbows and knees in the clinch You don't like it? No I like the knees But the elbows No elbows? No Too many cuts?

They're nasty Yeah They're nasty Cuts are nasty Yeah So I What do you think about How like the amateur

Muay Thai guys Have elbow pads? Yeah that's I think that's And all that's Preventing for people That don't understand What we're talking about It's weird that Like we see You could guys have elbow pads yeah that that's that's i think that's probably and all that's preventing for people who don't understand what we're talking about it's weird that uh like we see you could teach you can see with bare knuckle boxing there's a lot of bare knuckle boxing matches now and you

see these guys faces are just getting destroyed yes i mean they just ripped apart it's crazy it's not healthy no it's not it's definitely not good for the longevity of your career no and so in amateur and when we tie they have these elbow pads that they wear. And that would mean you still can knock guys out just as easily. Yeah, for sure. But you're not going to get the cuts. Exactly. The cuts are the big thing.

So I think that's a good thing. Yeah. But I'm just not a big fan of the elbow work. But I love to see it, but I don't like to get it. I remember. I remember. I I don't like to get it. I remember I was training with the Black Zillions years ago. I think it was even before I became champion. I was training there, doing a little bit of MMA, helping some guys out, and I was training,

and somebody just, he said on accident, he just pop, threw an elbow right on the nose. And he just opened it up just a little bit. And I was like, what the hell are you doing? Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Yeah. Just an accident? Yeah, an accident.

So I gave him a few extra low kicks after that. In MMA, I mean, it's such a staple technique. Yeah. You know, it's probably hard to not do it yeah you've had a couple mma fights right one just one yeah you mounted the guy yeah that was crazy you took him to the ground yeah i was like let's let's give it a try when we're in there we gotta try everything but when i saw it i was like damn if he makes his way to mma because the heavyweight division particularly in the the UFC, is extremely shallow.

Yeah. Extremely shallow. I mean, you have some great talent, but there's like four or five really good fighters. You know, there's obviously Cormier, there's Stipe, Francis Ngannou, there's a few other guys. But with a couple of wins, you're in the mix for a heavyweight title shot. Have you ever thought about doing that? I thought about it you're still young right how old are you 30 yeah see which is crazy because you've had a lot of fights right yeah i had about 60 70 fights yeah that's crazy you know and it's um and but the thing is as European, like fighting in glory, that's what people don't understand.

It is enormous overseas. It's crazy. It's hard for people in America. They're like, what? Kickboxing? But if you go to see those events, I mean, I watch all of them. You watch the events on television. It's like fucking crazy packed crowds.

Yeah, it's always full. The first fight you had with Botter, holy shit, was that crowd hot. That was a wild crowd. They even jumped to the ropes. Everything went crazy. Well, it ended in a fucked up way. Yeah. Botter said his arm was hurt.

Did he get an MRI or anything like that? I have no clue. Not from the organization or something. So, yeah, he did some bandage or something over his arm because that's what he posted on Instagram. But I don't know. I don't know. For me, it was, yeah, you know, it was like an anti-climax.

Yes. That wasn't the way I wanted to end that fight. Right. But I think for the rest, for for him this was the perfect way to end the fight because this is the way you could you could get a rematch because if you would would have lost no point in doing a rematch if you would get knocked out no point in doing a rematch so well my feeling was a really close fight and then you eventually won yeah you know but from from my feeling uh everybody said yeah but uh rico walked into the jabs the first round and everything that's true but i was

pressuring him i was pressuring him the whole time and i was trying to feel like where is my distance where i can hit and where i can where i get hit so of course that's right yeah you get tagged yeah you get tagged sometimes so my my nose was already uh during training my nose opened up so when he hit it it opened up again so i was like yeah it is what it is you know i'm not really bothered by it so i was pressuring pressure and i was like okay now i got now i got it so after that first round and pressure and i was like okay now i got now i got it so after that first round and yeah then we jumped into the second round i was fit i was ready for i was ready for this fight and that's what i like to do i would like to drag people into the deep waters well you're very fit for a heavy weight you have crazy cardio that's one of the things that i've always admired about your fighting

style so you put insane pressure on guys for a heavyweight because heavyweights, bigger guys, tend to fight at a slower pace and with less volume. But you push a pace, and when the fight gets to the third, fourth, and fifth rounds, you fucking pile it on, man. Yeah, because I've been training with light guys for my whole career.

So when I started at the gym, I started with the gym I started it with the super pro Sports Center with Dennis Carillo he had Albert Kraus he was the first k1 max champion and he had Alvier Lima like multiple middleweight champion world champion so I was working with those guys like every day and they just kept on pressuring me and I was getting my those guys, like, every day. And they just kept on pressuring me. And like, ba-ba-ba-ba-bam, ba-ba-ba-ba-bam, ba-ba-ba-bam. I was getting my ass whooped, like, almost every day by, like, guys that weighed, like, 75 kilos.

So I was like, I can keep hitting those guys hard or just go with less power and pressure them like they try to pressure me and of course in the beginning is like still you get tired but at a certain moment you get like hey this is going better and right now don't try to hit them hard but just try to keep the work no she gun is that something that happens in a fight as well where you have to balance out how hard you swing versus not going full blast but going technical knowing that you can start unloading in the third, fourth, and fifth rounds and you start to see them fade? We always say fighting is a thinking man's game because fighting, everybody can fight. When they have to, everybody can fight. It doesn't matter what person, when you put them in a corner and it's life or death, everybody can fight. But it's so much more than that. It's so much more than just fighting.

And that's how I try to step into the ring with that mentality like people don't understand that who've never competed the managing of the resources yes is a big factor exactly right like when do you decide to hit the gas and you see like guys in mma you see it with a guy like nick diaz like nick diaz is famous for not hitting guys hard he just stays on you he just stays on you a lot of volume and then you get tired yeah and then then he starts unloading exactly you know with big shots so and that's that's what i like to do um the biggest compliment i could get from an opponent and i had it like for my like my last six opponent i got like three or four times this like, now I understand why you are the champion. I fought everybody, but this I've never felt before.

And you're on a different level. And that's the biggest compliment I could get because I'm in the ring for five rounds with this guy. And they got every opportunity to do everything they've trained for with me for five rounds. So I didn't knock them out. We just fought for five rounds, but they just did not know what to do. And that's, yeah, for me, the biggest compliment I could get. Yeah, to be technical and to just play your game. Exactly.

Yeah. I really loved your rematch with Jamal Ben-Siddiq. Yeah. That was one of my favorite fights of yours. I believe that. It was a great fight like it that was like the the full rocky version of a fight that people would love to see you get tagged in the beginning and then you overwhelmed him and then when you put him away

i was like holy what a fight yeah what a fight that was that guy's a big too yeah he's a big guy and uh like i lost against him like back in the days and when i was like just a little little kid and so this fight brought something with it as well he's like yeah he's the champion now but i beat him but it was like six seven years ago i'm a totally different fighter than i was back then so let's go I'm ready for you so yeah this was the the best thing and he spit in my face during a press conference so I got some extra motivation for that fight well you played it out perfectly too where even when he hit you and hurt you early in the fight you stayed calm you didn't get emotional. You used good defense.

And then once you got him into the deep water, you stopped him in the fourth? In the fifth. Fifth round. Yeah. Once you got him in the deep water, then you piled it on and then put him away. But then again, it's the same thing for me. Everybody has to get back. How did you do that?

You got tagged. And I said, but then again, like I said, it's a thinking man's game. So I got hit. From my point I said, it's a thinking man's game. So I get hit. From my point of view, I made a mistake. I switched to southpaw. But instead of switching and stepping outside of his front leg, I was right in front of his leg. And he was just throwing a left-right. And I walked straight into that.

And that's what happened. It's not that, from my point into that and that's what that's what happened it's not that from my point of view that he timed that right so it happened and from that moment i can do two things i can think okay i can jump into the fight and try to get that point or whatever that moment back or just think in my mind like okay fuck it you lost this round take it and let's go fresh into the second that's what i did so just think about okay i lost this round but i got four more to go and i got back into the corner and my train says hey you're back so yep okay he's tired now yeah when he tried to unload on you he emptied out a lot of the gas tank when he had you hurt yeah yeah so that's the game right trying to

figure out when you can finish and when you can't exactly yeah just stay focused they relaxed and of course he hit me with some some good shots but well he's a big powerful guy yeah he's always a dangerous fighter that that guy's huge what is he like six nine'9", 6'10"? Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And then, yeah, he's huge, isn't he?

Like 270 pounds, I think. Yeah. That's a big motherfucker. That's a big motherfucker. So, and then he's like, yeah, now it's 1-1. I said, come on, man. You beat me like six, seven years. I beat you last year.

Oh, he wants another fight? Yeah, he wants another game. How many fights has he had since then? I don, seven years. I beat you last year. Oh, he wants another fight? Yeah, he wants it again. How many fights has he had since then? I don't know. He won a tournament last year. Right. So he's had a few. Yeah, so maybe that fight is going to come.

But like I said, now I'm in, like, last year, the 31st of December, my contract was finished with Glory. So we've been in negotiations ever since. So from that moment on, I i said in my last contract you guys told me the butter fight was going to happen and it didn't happen so that's what i want first give me the butter fight and from that moment on we're going to discuss yeah so people who don't know the sport badar hari is one of the biggest names in the sport like forever he's he's a guy who he's stopped alistair overeem he you know he's fought in k1 he fought everybody semi shield p arts whatever i mean he he's a fucking wild man too you know but he hasn't fought in high

level competition for a long time and then he fought you yeah yeah yeah so the thing was everybody was uh i was beating everybody i was champion and i was beating everybody people said yeah rico's good he's the champion but he hasn't fought botter i was like hey if he was so on national television said hey if he wants to fight let's go but he had been dealing with a bunch of legal troubles. Yeah, so he had a lot of problems, yeah. He broke someone's leg in a club. Yeah, a lot of shit. Crazy shit. There's a video of him slapping some guy's face in a hotel.

Yeah. Imagine that guy slapping your face. You're some poor dude working behind the counter. Botter comes in like, yikes. Yikes, yeah. Do whatever you want. Here, take the keys, sir. Which room would you like? The hotel is yours. Yeah. So, yeah, he had Do whatever you want. Here, take the keys, sir. Which room would you like?

The hotel is yours. Yeah. So, yeah, he had a bunch of problems. But then eventually the fight happened because that's the fight that people wanted to see. Yeah. But for me, it was just like another fight. And then the fight ended that way. Yeah, that was too bad.

But now we can do it again. Yeah. So the fight was quite a while ago how long ago was that 2016 yeah that's why did it take so long for the rematch uh yeah there was a bunch of stuff going on in between and like last year he fought hesdy gerges also a good kickbox i believe he's now doing mma in bellator and... He's fought Hesby before, right? Yeah, he fought Hesby before but got disqualified. Oh, that's right.

He stomped him when he was on the ground? Yeah, stomped him, yeah. So, but after that fight... He's so crazy. Yeah, he's crazy. He's such a wild dude. Yeah.

And then after that fight, they both got caught with using whatever. Oh, steroids. Yeah. Oh. So, they both got caught with using whatever. Oh, steroids. Yeah. Oh. So they both got suspended. And I believe Hedzy wasn't suspended.

I don't know. But he got suspended until December this year. So that's why. How did the fight go when you fought last year with Hedzy? He won. He won. It wasn't easy, but he won. Was it a loss?

I mean, a decision? It was a decision, yeah. Yeah, so for him, that was the first fight since your fight with him in 2016? Is that it? Yeah. Because he's had a bunch of problems.

And now he's not training at Mike's gym anymore as well, right? No, no, no. Do you know who he's training with? Mike's gym anymore As well No No no no Do you know who he's training with Yeah I don't know his name I don't know I know the guy But

I don't know who he's training with Well he looks good on Instagram For sure Looks very fit A lot of people Jacked A lot of people look good On Instagram

You know that When you see him in real life He looks totally different Well I'm sure he looks the same Yeah But it's What's interesting is when you're in high-level competition like he was, of course, in the days when he fought Alistair, before Alistair made the transition full-time to MMA, before he came to Strikeforce and all that stuff, that's a long time ago. Yeah. You know, it's probably hard to get back and to jump straight into top-level competition like Headsy or especially like fighting you as a champion.

That's a big leap, right? Yeah. But that's the thing now. So he fought last year, March, and I fought last year, September. March and I fought last year September so because I'm was in negotiations and still am in negotiations with Glory for a new contract so it's uh it's both been a while for us but I've been before that I was like in a much more active yeah crazy active flow yeah you definitely have much more momentum and just there's a thing about fighting too when. When guys take a long time off, it's almost like they lose the feel for it. They lose.

You know how, obviously, they know how to kick. They know how to punch. They know what to do. They're in shape. Yeah. But there's a feel that they have for the ring. Exactly. Exactly.

There's where people don't understand. Like, hey, you step in the ring and that's what you do. That's what you were born to do. That's true, but you need that tension. You need that vibe of walking towards the ring, stepping into the ring. All those people looking at you at that moment, that's a certain type of feeling that you get. You got to be comfortable with it. Yeah, and that's exactly what it is.

You got to feel comfortable. And the only way you can be comfortable and stay comfortable is being active yes being active is very it's just so critical for a fighter when when a guy takes a year off or two years off or three i mean it's like the more the time is the more it becomes problematic yeah and the older you get that's the ass how old's batter now 35 i think so yeah does glory drug test yeah they do that's that's how they got caught was it him or was it an athletic commission i mean was it glory or was it uh no it's not glory it's an local and so they're going to drug test for this fight as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So I got tested like every time. Is it like water testing, like the same standards? Like world anti-doping agency?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they like wake you up like 7 o'clock in the morning, hey Rico. Oh, no, no, no, no. That's not the testing. They just test at the events. Oh. I would even rather have that.

Yeah. They just wake up and random come test, but that's not what they do. But they test like really strict when you're there. Yeah, that's a little bit easier to pass though. That's true. No, that's a lot easier to pass, I should say. I have no clue.

I don't know what to do or what ways there are to because I'm not on it. I don't want to stay busy. I don't want to think about it. Right. But whatever, you know, I just jump in there and just don't want to stay busy. I don't want to think about it. But whatever. I just jump in there and just do what I got to do. But that's why I told Glory now

again after this whole issue because a lot of people were caught last year and they didn't expect that. I was like, hey, we got to keep doing this because this is the way we make the sport clean. and i think that's what we deserve because we yeah we are we are a good sport we are all athletes but i want to be

safe in the ring and what do you mean with safe you're going into a fight i understand but somebody that uses whatever can maybe just punch a little bit harder in the beginning of the fight or whatever have a little more endurance exactly hit you with some punches they wouldn't be able to hit you with they're not on some shit exactly so that's what i mean uh with telling glory i want to be safe when i'm in the ring well for sure i mean if if one person's on it and one person's not that's you know it's uh it's a giant advantage anybody says it's not it's just lying to themselves yeah yeah so but i'm in the end you know i just go in there and don't i'm not even thinking about it well it is the fight to make in kickboxing too and if there's a fight that i could tell people

hey you got to watch you you really want to know what kickboxing all about watch this fight this that is the fight because botter's such a wild man he's such a knockout artist and you obviously one of the most successful heavyweights ever you know i mean your uh your kickboxing record in glory i mean just the highlight reels amazing you've had so many great fights over there yeah i've been doing so good and really enjoy myself and that's what i said i want to bring kickboxing to a new level like then especially when you go now in holland like normally in holland it was like soccer or whatever cycling or ice skating that's where parents would bring their kids to and do that do kickboxing and now they're like hey kickbox this is cool when did that change i think like two three years ago what what made it change i think uh

because of the barter fight that was so we were getting we were just getting more air time and after the barter fight and everything that happened around him and it was surrounding him like what the things you said what happened outside in the club and this and that. Yeah. He was like the national asshole. Right. And I was like the national good guy. Because everybody, so, and that was like the perfect clash. And then, of course, yeah, I beat him. So everybody was like, oh, shit, he's our hero.

So that's how everything a little bit exploded. But again, for you, that's unsatisfying the way it happened, though, that he gets his arm injured. Yeah. In whatever way, reason, or whatever he thinks happened. But, like... Because you're suspicious about it. I'm suspicious about it. So, because he's looking at one arm, then looking at the other arm, and it's just...

It's a fake thing for me. But that's what I have with this whole thing that he tries to create it's like when he's getting announced and everything's like yeah butter harry 110 something fights and 90 knockouts but i'm obsessed with what i'm doing i'm uh when i'm when i fight and when I have an opponent and I'm fighting, I'm looking for everything. I want to know everything about you.

And everything these days you can find on the internet. So when I'm looking on the internet, for example, you look at Wikipedia and you're looking at all the fights from back in the days, K1 days and even before that,

you maybe get to 60 70 fights so where are the other fights does that mean like when you were younger in the youth period you did like 40 something fights did you knock everybody out i don't know my trainer has been there for years even before that and he doesn't know about it so that's strange because everything is documented on on the internet everything you can find on the internet so so you think his record's inflated i think so he's got some crazy knockouts though he got yeah yeah yeah stefan lecco that the wheel kick but that's what's what I said he got he's got that

he's got amazing records but I think it's not as crazy as they make it to be which is crazy because the reality is pretty crazy

I mean you don't need to hype it up anymore than it really is right no but it's been there for years like hey he did 100 something fights

so many knockouts but when I look at it, I can't find it. I see what you're saying. But maybe it's there. Maybe it's there. Maybe it's from years ago or whatever. I don't know.

But that's all that I'm looking at. You're suspicious. I'm suspicious about it because when I look at Wikipedia and I'm looking at when he was around, it starts from when he was around 16 until now. It's like 60-70 fights It's funny when you look at him in the early days too He was so skinny Yeah

Like even when he fought Stefan Leko Yeah And then now he's fucking jacked Yeah But he put so much time Into strength Strength and conditioning workouts You can see like he's always doing

Some crazy strength routine Yeah Yeah So Do you do a lot of strength and conditioning? Like what are your workouts like? As opposed to like how much skill so do you do a lot of strength and conditioning like what what are your workouts like as opposed to like how much skill work do you do and how much strength and conditioning work i think it's pretty even balanced out i think i train strength like three times a week but even my strength routine is so balanced out with doing strength and then the same muscle group i also do conditioning so

first i do low reps and then i do a lot of reps because these muscles aren't for me aren't supposed to be big they need to be strong and they can be they need to be making the same punch 50 times with the same strength so not 10 times really hard no 50 times with the same strength. So not 10 times really hard. No, 50 times on the same strength, the same level. So that's how we approach that. And then, yeah, we got skill training like two, three times a week, like pad work. I got explosive training. So I try to always look also at different sports at soccer at america football and at ice

skating and they all have a certain type of explosiveness that they train in a certain way so i try to pick everything from everywhere and work with that so we created a training that we just use for being explosive. So it has nothing to do with endurance because it's maybe like 45 minutes and it's just a few seconds. You go, go back. Go, you come back. Because logically for a big guy, you're slow. When something is big and heavy, it's slow.

And that's what we try to do. We try to be as fast as possible for a big guy so a lot of plyometric type stuff explosive type stuff yeah yeah speed letters and stuff like that okay yeah so when you do this kind of stuff when you were saying that you lift um low reps and then high reps yeah so you do like heavy weights first yeah so just to try to like max out or get the the muscles very tired and then really wear them out with with reps yeah so we do yeah but we never go max max so right right right doesn't that like over max well we so you don't don't go to failure with like heavy heavy weights yeah what kind of stuff are you doing you doing like dumbbells kettlebells a lot of a lot of dumbbells yeah yeah as much as much loose weight as possible like a few

uh with the barbell but as much with uh with the dumbbells because that's when you gotta keep in balance and work on that core and stuff like that so what about uh sparring how often you spar a week uh normally like twice to three times a week and when you do it are, are you doing hard sparring? I know you're from Holland. Those fucking Holland guys like to spar hard, man. Do you do a lot of hard sparring? Is it more technical? How do you balance it out? It depends.

It depends on who's in. Because now in preparation, we're going to fly guys in. And then, yeah, it's going to be pretty tough sparring. Because that's what you get the guys for. Right. But in the end, I'm always thinking about, hey, we do hard sparring, but we don't want to injure each other. Right.

There's no point for me in knocking guys out during sparring because then I don't have any sparring partners anymore. So I do hard sparring, kick them hard on the legs, kick him hard on the body. And, of course, people get knocked down. Not knocked out, but knocked down. But you don't go full blast to the head. No. That's a Holland thing, right?

I mean, there's a lot of Dutch guys. A lot of guys do it, yeah. Spar like that, yeah. But we go pretty tough. We go pretty tough to the head, black eyes, bloody nose. But I'm always like 90% going. I'm always looking at like, hey, when I'm making a move and I can make a head kick, I always try to, when I see I'm going to make a full hit,

try to keep it back just a little bit. So I think, yeah, but just being controlled. I think it's very important. So I train with all the guys, all the heavyweight guys from Glory I trained with. And, of course, we do hard sparring, but we do not. From my point of view, I don't want to injure them. Right. Yeah, I mean, it only makes sense.

I mean, that's one of the most valuable things, right, is to have high-level training partners. Exactly. And if guys think you're going to put them to sleep all the time, they're not really interested in sparring with you. For example, I trained with Benny Adegbui. He's like the number two and number three in glory. And I fought him twice.

But we trained together. He's now at my gym. And I try to make him better. I say, hey, try this, try that. Because if he's better, you're better. Exactly. And people are like, no, no, no. I don't want to train with competition because then they know what I'm going to do.

That's true. But you also know what they're doing. So it just depends on how you approach things. Every negative thing has a positive thing added as well. So that's, I really always, I'm always looking at the positive things and always try

to surround myself with people that are positive. And yeah, that's the vibe that I'm going with because that's what works. Well, that's also

the mark of a confident fighter. Like, you know that you're the best. So if you help him, he's just going to help you become even better than you are currently. Yeah you got to be you got to be comfortable with that because you also see a lot of guys that like hey no i'm not gonna do that i'm not gonna do this i'm not gonna help that guy i'm not gonna tell him whatever because it's not gonna be good

for me but in the end everybody that gets better can help me get better as well. So I always position myself as a sponge. I try to get as much info in wherever I am. So, for example, I'm now really going into acting. I want to act. So now Kevin was on your show as well. Kevin Hart? Yeah, I saw you were training with him. Yeah, so it was a lot of fun.

The first kick he ever threw, he threw with you. Yeah. So it was crazy. He's a great guy. Yeah, he's such a good guy. But so much positivity and he has such a great vibe and he's such a great mentor. And I was just sitting there. We were talking.

And like I said, I was just positioning myself as a sponge a sponge I was trying to get as much information in there as possible and yeah now I've been I'm here now in LA for about a month now I've been training with with Mark Wahlberg and also the same thing and Anthony Hardon and as you hard on his here so it's amazing because when you're in LA you want to do Dutch kickboxing that that's the place where you got to go. Hardhawk's awesome. I love that guy. Yeah, he's amazing.

So every time I'm in L.A., I'm going to work with him. We should tell people where he goes. Dynamics. Yeah. Dynamics MMA. Which is in Santa Monica. He just said they're opening up another one that he's going to run in West L.A. When he used to fight in the UFC, I used to love watching him fight

because he was probably one of the best leg kickers ever in the heavyweight division. Yeah. He would just fuck guys' legs up. Yeah.

So technical. Yeah, so much fun. So last Saturday we started sparring a little bit. Yeah, I'm looking for

a little bit of sparring. I said, he said, I didn't do anything for 10 years but I want to do it. Just want to help you out. I said, it's good but I just want to move around. I said, he said, I didn't do anything for 10 years, but I want to do it. Just want to help you out. I said, it's good, but I just want to move around.

You know, I don't want to kick nobody's ass. I just want to move around. So that's what we did. We had a lot of fun. And then you still see he has that feeling, has that Dutch kickboxing touch. So it's amazing. Yeah. No, there's not a lot of, like, real high- Dutch kickboxing that you can get in California, especially out here.

No, no, no. He's definitely the guy to go to. But just heavyweights is difficult. Heavyweight sparring is hard. Yeah. Good level heavyweight sparring. So, yeah, we just keep going around, and that's why I love being here. So, actually, I'm here for vacation, but when I'm here, I got to work as well.

Right. So the fight is in December, you were saying, right? Yeah, it's going to be in December. When in December? The 21st. Oh, okay. So right before Christmas. Merry Christmas.

Yeah. So that's what I said. I said, yeah, maybe we'll do it in January. It's mm-mm. Fuck, I wish it was in America. We got to do it in December. I wish it was in America. I would love to see that shit.

Why? Well, I don't want to go to Holland. Why not? I'm busy. I love Holland. Listen, I love Holland. I'm disrespectful. I don't want to go to Hollandlland why i'm busy i love uh i don't want to go to holland not that i don't love holland hey you want to you want to go busy you want to come to holland that's a lot of fun i'm sure i'm sure it's but if it was in like chicago or some shit i'd fly out

but holland that's a fucking that's a long that's a lot of flying yeah it's a lot of time 11 hours yeah 11 hours on a plane you get jet lag stay for a couple days i don't have a week to spare no i wish yeah you're a busy man so you're out here trying to act too that's what you're gonna try to do yeah yeah so you get an agent and meeting with people and stuff like that yeah yeah exactly so um i'm uh with with paradigm it's my uh it's my american management now you're taking you you obviously speak fluent English. Yeah. But are you taking lessons to get better at it so you can act and all that jazz?

So that's your next goal. Exactly. So I'm still an active athlete, but I'm still looking at, like, hey, what can I do next? Because I can't and I don't want to do this for like 10 more years when do you want to retire do you have a thought in your head i don't know it depends on what right now you're in your prime yeah so it depends on what what comes on my my route so yeah i'm still looking at so now i'm in negotiations with glory how is glory doing as an organization are they doing well yeah because i know they were they were struggling a little bit in America.

They were trying to. But do they still have events here in America? Yeah. Or less, though? Yeah, but less. Less than in the beginning. Because Europe is so much more successful. So there we fill up like arenas.

Here we can get like five, 10,000. I went to the Last Man Standing in LA when uh joe shilling was there holy shit was that crazy yeah that was awesome but i always tell people like you want to see real high level striking you see high level striking in mma but with mma there's all the other variables there's takedowns and you know small gloves the whole deal like you really want to see high level kickboxing yeah glory's where it's at exactly so that's for me now where I'm at is like I'm still in negotiation with Glory for a new contract. And if we, in what way or the other, we can't get out of it, so maybe I'm going to do something else. Or I don't know.

I'm looking at the sport like a totally different way. I'm looking at the sport like a totally different way. I think the sport can totally be elevated in all certain ways, in all different ways, because how crazy would it be to do mixed fights? It's fun to go from one guy go to the other sport, but how cool would it be that the other guy would go to the other sport as well? So someone from MMA coming to kickboxing? And the other way around.

Yeah. Well, the other way around, see, I mean, I could see like Francis Ngannou. I think he would do really well in kickboxing because he's such a fucking ridiculously powerful striker. Yeah. He would do really well. But I don't think there's a lot of other – well, I mean, obviously Alistair. If Alistair really dedicated himself to it. But he's chasing the goal of being a UFC heavyweight champion. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, who else? I mean, the only other organization is ONE. And ONE has – they do kickboxing as well now. Yeah. They do kickboxing and Muay Thai. And they do Muay Thai with little gloves, which is kind of crazy. That was pretty crazy. Have you thought about doing that no not really that's crazy yeah but i don't mind we're doing the small gloves but kickboxing with small gloves is

pretty insane how pretty intense because there's no way to block anything anymore right stand up and fight. You can just put the gloves out and just do bare knuckle fight because it's almost the same. So in terms of like for people who don't understand, when you have big gloves on, there's more. You can protect yourself more. Exactly.

You can shell up better. Yeah. And defensively, you know Liam Harrison? Yeah. He fought in one with little gloves and muay thai and he was like holy he sent me a message like brutal man he's like he's like i can't believe how hard it is it's so much different yeah it's totally different you can't clean she can do it whatever so yeah that's that's pretty insane so but like i said you know i don't know why one's

doing that i mean because i know they do have some matches where they wear big gloves just to I don't know why one's doing that. Because I know they do have some matches where they wear big gloves, too. Just to push the limit again. Well, they have so many different kinds of matches over there. They even have grappling matches, like straight grappling. Yeah, I don't know. Have you been to one at all?

No. They're gigantic. Yeah? In Asia, fucking huge, man. You've been there? No, but a bunch of friends have gone over there to coach and even to fight and you know and a couple people from the ufc misha tate she's uh some she has some executive position over there right now rich franklin does as well who used to be the middleweight champion so they they um they have a bigger audience worldwide than the ufc does they're huge in asia

just gigantic and they keep getting bigger and bigger and they got really really high-level fighters too, so it's really interesting. But I know they're doing a lot of kickboxing as well. Yeah. So who knows? Who knows in the future? More the better, right? More competition the better. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly, because that's what brings the whole sport up. Yes. To a new level. So that's perfect, and that's cool. But it's like I said, I just like to do different stuff. Yeah. And now, like I said, I don't want to fight for another 10 years. So let's see what's going to happen.

I'm going to make a movie either way. So I'm going to start filming a movie at the beginning of next year. So that's pretty cool. What's the movie? It's going to be totally from blank. We started the movie um it's gonna be it's like totally uh from blank we started it so it's been it's been written now i got the first draft of the script and it's it's crazy can you tell me what you do uh yeah so i'm like uh like a black ops kind of guy uh but something happens during operation i stop because i think. Because I think, like, what happened is crazy.

I told them not to do this, and still this happened, so I'm going to stop. But they bring you back. I get back. You got to go back and kick some ass. Exactly. Shoot some people. Kick them. You get to kick people?

Of course. Of course. But that's the thing. I don't want to be a fighter because people already know me from fighting right i want to do something else i want to really show my my acting skills right so that's gonna there's gonna be so much fun and that's what i get my excitement from because i love doing new stuff i'm doing kickboxing so i'm six years old i've been doing this like forever so i want to do something else as well. So this is going to be a lot of fun.

It's a hard transition. Not a lot of people have been successful at it. Randy Couture is probably the most successful at it. He's got a real career as an actor now. He acts in a bunch of movies, man. Obviously, he's in The Expendables, but he's always working. But in the end, when you look at the history, a lot of athletes did it. Yeah, sure. Not a lot of, in the end, when you look at the history, a lot of athletes did it. Yeah, sure.

Not a lot were, like, really good. But in the end, we got, like, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Charlo Van Damme. Sure, sure. It's possible, and I like the challenge. Is there ever a worry of being, like, one foot in, one foot out with your fighting career? Like, if acting starts to take off but you're

still fighting is there a worry about not being a hundred percent all in no no because then the thing we said and i also discussed this with my trainer because he's really cautious with that he's like hey when we focus on making a movie that's what we're gonna focus on and if we're gonna have a fight we're gonna fully focus on that so no side things or oh let's do this for a second and then we go back no just gonna focus on that because that's what does fighters in exactly i mean you've seen it like that that happened with ronda rousey it's happened with other fighters where they just get too spread thin they get spread too thin and they have too many different projects going simultaneously and still they they people still say that about me now

at this moment like rico's not focused he doesn't say hey but i train every day i'm focused in what i'm doing i'm focused in kickboxing but i just like the acting part i just want to gain my knowledge and get better at it. So you got to train it. It's the same as kickboxing. You just got to stay focused. Do you ever do any jiu-jitsu? I did some. I did some, yeah.

I like it. I like it. It's a lot of fun. But now the last two years have been so busy with kickboxing and everything that happens on the side. There's just no time. So you don't have any real designs of eventually transferring to MMA? You know, like I said, for me, when I look at it, people ask me this a lot. Like, Rico, why don't you go to MMA?

I say, yeah, it could be. It could be possible but like from if I look at it honestly it's not my basic ambition to go there because my ambition my next ambition because when I look at it's like if you jump into something different you should should have the the will and want to be the best. Right. And I don't necessarily have the will to be the best at MMA. But if you get a crazy offer.

That's what I was going to say. Someone comes along with the real shackles. You can think about some stuff. Starts laying some paper out. Come on, Rico. Okay, okay. Keep it going. Just a little bit more.

Okay, I'm out. Let's go. I got this. I'm motivated. No, so that's exactly what you said. But if you did decide to do that, how much time do you think you would legitimately need for like a real high-level opponent to work on?

A year. Take down a year. Yeah. Take down take down because i know what to do i've trained this for like two three years so i know uh but my body just needs to work on it have a fight in between maybe another fight and then i'm gonna be able to do a high level fight now do you do any other kind of cardio do you run or of course yeah do you i hate it you hate it but you have to do it yeah but it's also for a big guy it's more of a pain in the ass you're like what do you weigh about 250 somewhere around there uh 260 260 so that's when you're running that's a lot of weight that's a lot of weight on your joints because of the pressure and so but in the end how much i hate it just uh it works for me because it's also for me a mental training because

i hate it so much and i jump on the treadmill or i go outside and i just want to come on come on you gotta keep going you gotta keep going because when you get you have that feeling like 90 percent of the people would stop say but you're not that person you gotta keep going and that's what that's what motivates me just to do things different than everybody else does being comfortable being uncomfortable yes exactly yeah The grind. The grind is, I think that's the moment when it starts. When you get that feeling, shit is going to hurt. Your body starts hurting.

And that's when a lot of people give up. And that's where we as champions, we continue. It's interesting, too, because a lot of fighters, They'll do all sorts of high intensity training And interval training And all these different plyometrics And cardio and different things But many of them will tell you That one of the more important things

Is just long range running Because when you do this long distance running Where you run 5, 6, 7 miles When you do that You develop this cardio base Where you can just keep working and you can recover faster. Yeah, exactly.

I mean, that's one of the things, if you go back and look at old-time fighters, you know, back to Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Robinson, all those guys, everybody ran. Everybody did. Rocky Marciano, everybody ran. Yeah. There wasn't an option. It wasn't like you don't have to run, we can do a bunch of other things.

Like, no, no, no, fighters run. Yeah, that's what we do. Yeah. But it's just I always feel like running is not the base of your – it's not most important, but it's like really important factor of the total package. Right. So it's just your – the oxygen you have for keeping the same pace for a longer time. Then, of course, the explosiveness that we use during a fight is important.

But also just, yeah, your basic lung capacity should be big as well. What about heavy bag work? Yeah, we do it, but. Not that much? Yeah, I think, think like once a week. So more pad work, more technical things? Yeah, yeah. Not like, because I see some guys,

it's really interesting how different camps, different fighters, different trainers prefer different preparation methods. Yeah. And some swear by intervals on the heavy bag. Some swear by doing rounds on the heavy bag. And some don't think it's that critical. I think for everybody's different but like for me throughout all those years I've been trying different stuff and I think now I created the right combination of

different trainings just polishing everything and I think I found the right way to get fit because i don't need to get i need to get better i always i'm always looking to get better but you get better by putting in the work but i'm always looking at how can i change my training up what would be an add-on what in what i already have right so now I think I created the right combination. And still I'm looking to add stuff on. But I think I created the right way to get fit for a fight because I've shown that throughout all those years.

I've shown that I'm fitter than all the rest. And that's a part. than all the rest. And that's a part, but still, I think the biggest difference is that everybody is strong and everybody is fit and everybody can fight. But the biggest difference is mentally. What happens to you mentally

when you get to the fourth and fifth round? I think that's the most important thing. How strong are you mentally to continue fighting? A lot of people, when you feel like, always for the people that do not understand what this fighting game is, what happens to you when you're in the ring or in an octagon.

So you can, i always compare it with driving a car you're driving a car and the last what is it 40 50 miles the the gas light comes on hey you gotta get gas that's the same thing that happens to your body. When you get tired, whatever happens in your mind or your head, hey, you're tired. When you're tired, you need to rest. And we as athletes, we do not listen to that light that goes off in your car. And even in my car, I don't listen. I always go. I had a few times That I was

On the side of the road Without gas So I'm sorry But Is that psychological? Do you do that? Because you think of your car Like a body?

Yeah Like you're trying to Fuck you car Don't be a pussy Thanks Joe Thank you Appreciate that But that's

Yeah I think That is what it is You know It's like the same game you're playing. You're playing that game with your car. It's so stupid. But for me, it works because I always push my car to the limit. That's funny.

And that's what I do to myself as well. And that's what I luckily have a great team of people around me for because even when everything is hurting and tired and I almost get overtrained, my people have to pull me back. Say, Rico, there's no point in training now because you're going to get overtrained and you're going to fuck yourself up. Right. That's the fine balance, right? It's hard to figure out. I don't have to balance.

Right. I don't have it. I try to have it. And every time in preparation, I think I got it. Now I got it. I don't got it. So you need other people around you that are objective that can tell you. Like, hey, Rico, you got to step back.

Because for me, in my mind, I don't know what it is. But when I'm not working, i'm standing still or going down that's what happens in my mind so right i gotta keep working i gotta keep grinding right but that's also because of your style because of the fact that you do push such a tremendous pace that you're you're constantly feel like you have to have your foot on the gas yeah right that's interesting so you've been with the same coach for a long time yeah like since I was like 17 oh so that's great so they know you yeah think yeah when I come in so what's going on so critical right and then the

whole team so my power coach oh okay so the same same team the entire yeah can you imagine like like in the beginning of when we were working like for three, four years. And then I come in Monday morning, power training. And my trainer walks up to me and looks at me. What the hell? What the hell did you do this weekend? What do you mean? What have you been eating?

Yeah. Saturday night I went to the mcdonald's what's the problem look at your blown head man see that like yeah you know fat holds the the water in your the flu he could tell from one mcdonald's meal really That's how close we were together. Oh, wow. So that's how, like, he sees me, like, multiple times a week. So he saw me, like, Friday. So he just knows you. He just knows how it works. He knows everything. Did you monitor your heart rate or anything like that? Yes, every morning I check my blood pressure and stuff like that, get my temperature.

Do you do it with a computer? Do you have a program that you run? No, no, no. Just write it down? Yeah, just write it down and then send it to the doctor. So if your heart rate is a little bit too high in the morning, do you just do it like an active recovery day, just relax? Yeah, we now check it more through the temperature than through the heart rate.

Really? Yeah. Temperature? Yeah, exactly. Interesting. So when my temperature is up, I got to watch out. So you might be fighting off a cold or something like that? Something like that, fighting off a cold.

Or your body is still recovering from last training. So from that that we can so we i'm doing it now for a few years and that's exactly what when i feel like hey when my temperature goes up and it goes there this doesn't feel good and then every time when we in the end we always look back at and analyze stuff and then my train said hey exactly there because this training was was so you take do you use this like do you make a log during your training and compare it to like your last camp and you look at the numbers and make sure that everything lines up yeah yeah so you kind of have to be right at this point in time if you want to really get everything dialed

in you kind of have to be scientific about everything right yeah because there's so much more than just uh fighting and good training it's like like good nutrition and yes and that and it's just everything has to be balanced out i was gonna ask you about that do you have a dietician or someone who cooks for you uh yeah so in camp. So I think like two years ago I started with that. Do you eat horse meat? Yeah, not necessarily. Isn't that a big thing over there? Like Alistair is a big horse meat guy. I think that was a good excuse for the things that he did next to fighting.

That's what everybody said too. Everybody was like, yeah, horse meat. Yeah, horse meat, yeah. Hey, it works. Yeah, look at the size of. Everybody was like, yeah, horse meat. Yeah, horse meat. Hey, it works. Yeah, look at the size of them. Got to get them some horse meat. Yeah. So, no.

So that's, no, I have no clue. It's not like in my diet or something. What do you eat? A lot. A lot? Yeah. Multiple meals a day? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah yeah for sure so uh but that's that's the fun people like how much do you eat it's it's crazy so yeah but i burn a lot as well so right i have to and for me the the fun thing with that is the the fun and the strange thing when i tell people said when i get closer to the fight, I'm eating myself slim. So the more I'm eating, the slimmer I'm getting because I'm training very hard and your body is just in a burning process. And when the food is gone, it's going to start burning fat. So I get slimmer the closer I get to the fight. I said, but when you see what I eat, it's like, how do you do that?

But it's just all clean. Because you're just training so so much yeah so what what kind of foods do they prepare for you do they did they have like those pre-prepared packets and you just uh heat them up or something like that like how does that work uh yeah meal like a meal prep company does yeah no it's just like a private cook okay yeah private chef that that runs with me and just makes sure every day I get. And they check the macros and make sure that you get the right amount of protein, the right amount of carbohydrates. Yeah, so it's not like really like everything is put on a scale or something like that. We don't do that because, yeah, in certain things I just want a little bit more or I still have, I'm still a little bit hungry. So it's not like you need to lose weight or anything.

No, but still I have in my mind always a certain type of fight weight that I like to fight on. What is that weight? Like 118 and a half. 118 and a half kilos. What is that? I think it's around 245. No, 2855 258 i think well it's 2.2 pounds

2.2 kilos or 2.2 pounds per kilo 118 is 260 pounds 260 so that's right right around there yeah yeah so okay then i'm lying then i'm now a little bit heavier. Guys, come on. I'm in L.A. I went in and out a few times. How could you not? So it's got to be around 265. Do you try to stay pretty healthy in terms of your diet, though, even when you're not in camp?

Yeah. So for me, people say, like, Rico, how do you do it? For me, fighting is a lifestyle. It's not like when I wake up, oh, this morning, I go to the gym, think about the fight, focus, focus, focus, go out to the gym, and my focus is all of it. I wake up with it. I go to bed with it. And when I'm in bed, I'm dreaming about it. This is 24-7.

Every day I'm thinking about it. Every meal, every thing you do is just thinking about what's coming. That's why you're the champ. Yeah, I think so. But for me, it's like such a crazy thing that goes on in my mind because I train twice a day, and then at night when I'm at home Think like you know what I'm in front of television my wife on the couch and like I'm gonna do some stretching I'm just gonna sit on the ground just stretch or do some more ab work. It's just I

Don't know I thought I feel like I'm obsessed or you have to be obsessed I mean you're in the most one of the most dangerous combat sports in the world, and you're the world champion. So it's constantly that pressure, and I just think, hey, my opponent probably now is resting or whatever he's doing. I don't care, but I need to do something extra. So constantly that's running through my mind. Everything that I'm doing, he's not doing.

Now, do you take vitamins and supplements? What kind of stuff do you take? he's not doing now do you take vitamins and supplements yeah what kind of stuff do you take well it's really like like all natural stuff and I go to the to the doctor so he takes my blood and then from there on he always looks at how does it look is it looking good you maybe you need some more whatever yeah so so he he fills it up whenever it's needed. And during the period I'm training, I just take the normal stuff, magnesium, iron, whatever, vitamin C, stuff like that,

just to keep everything on the right level. And then once a month I go to him, or the closer we get to the fight, maybe go twice a month. And then you just check it like, okay, it's good. Or now, oh, you got a lot of white blood cells. So you're getting close to being your muscles are tired, you know, maybe getting overtrained. So look at that. Maybe get some more protein, you know, stuff like that.

So that's how we try to do that. What else do you do for recovery? Do you do any cryotherapy or things on those lines? Yeah. So I've been starting that like one and a half year ago or something. And it works. I like it. Do you do ice baths or like how do you – what do you do?

No. I just do literally the cryo, the machines. Oh, so like frozen. Yeah. Yeah. So I did like two different in Holland now it's like

really starting to to be a hype so now they get like different places do you go on the one that is from the neck down or the one that gets

your whole body in there yeah so first I started with with the one with the neck down the whole body is the better one, though, right? There's a place out here, cryotherapy.

It's the fucking shit. I love it. Yeah, it's nice. 240 degrees below zero and just get in there for three minutes. You motherfucker. Motherfucker. But it's also free. I'll get in there like a mental training.

I'm like, come on. You got to go. So that's what I started with. But I think the only one we have now is in Amsterdam like the full body and like Amsterdam

is like two hours oh yeah well from the neck down is good enough yeah so now I'm gonna I get one

I get one in my own gym so just I can jump in in and out easy yeah so just start with that and then

from there I'm gonna see how it works what about sauna? yeah I use it but not too often so good man

I know so good for recovery you know I like it for the full first two minutes and then afterwards I'm like

it's like again it's like a training I know but I'm like it's like again it's like mental training I know but I'm like after my wife's like

enjoying it I'm like oh I love it it's so nice and I'm like come on come on you got this

come on because you're playing a game with yourself you can't just enjoy it your opponent will probably get out now you're gonna stay in.

Come on. It's like really a sweat just dripping off. It's like really a fight. I was fucking myself up because I was trying to crank it up. I had Laird Hamilton on the podcast. He's a surfer, big-time surfer. And his wife, Gabriella Reese, was telling me that he cranks his up to 220 degrees. So I did that for a little bit.

I got up to like 210, 218. Yeah. But I think it was burning my lungs. I think I was cooking in there. I really do. I would feel like shit. And then I would get out. I'd be so fucking tired.

I was like, I don't think this is good for you. So then I dropped it down. Now I do normal. Now I do it like 180 which is normal 180 degrees fahrenheit i don't know what that is celsius yeah i think like like 80 85 yeah it's but that's normal that's like a normal hot sauna good enough 20 minutes i'm in i'm out it's pretty hot it's pretty hot for me yeah it's hot man it's hot but it's very good for you Those heat shock proteins And they did these studies That showed a 40% decrease

In mortality For all causes Heart attack Stroke Cancer 40% decrease For people who use the sauna For four times a week or more

That was in Was that Sweden? Jamie do you remember? Dr. Rhonda Patrick Oh really? Yes that's interesting She was talking about it I didn't know that

Explaining it Yeah it's phenomenal for you because of heat shock proteins. It makes your body, reduces inflammation throughout your whole body, as does cryotherapy. Anything where you're dealing

with extreme cold or extreme heat, your body develops either heat shock proteins or cold shock proteins. Yeah. So, I also have,

so there was this, this place where I went, where I went for the cryo, and he said, oh, we also got something else. I don't know what it's called. What is it called? I can't remember. So you just get put in a cocoon or something and just go to sleep.

But you're in water, so you're like floating. So the water is like – You're floating. Yeah, the water is floating. It's called floating. That's what it's called. I is like you're floating yeah the water is floating it's called floating that's what it's called i was like what the hell i'm floating that's what the fuck it's called you mean like a like a float tank like yeah yeah but it looks like here it looks like a cocoon okay i know what you're talking about and then yeah they just close it and they put you in that sensory deprivation tank yeah for an hour i have one right here oh really yeah it's awesome

i'm gonna sleep for an hour it's a big one too guys i'm out it's huge the one i have here is huge yeah why are you so small yeah but that's the best one they have i just wanted one that anyone can come in so it's like seven feet long and nine feet high. Yeah. It's amazing. And they say when you finally get to the point where you know how to work with it mentally and relax, it's the same as one hour is like four or five hours of sleep or something. Of sleep, yes. Yeah, you relax. And it's also your body absorbs magnesium because it's Epsom salts. So all the salt that's in the water is 1,000 pounds of salt in the water.

All that Epsom salts, the magnesium magnesium gets through your skin into your bloodstream so it's really good like it's almost like taking a magnet it's as good or better take than taking a magnesium supplement yeah really good for your muscles too like everything gets loose and relaxed and it feels like everything stretches out and yeah what about um also tried that yeah i'll show i'll show you too when you get out of here what about uh massage do you get massage yeah like daily daily yeah so my physiotherapist uh comes in to the house and just keeps it keeps the blood flowing and just make sure yeah everything not just for recovery but also um also just for the injuries.

Just keep checking, like, oh, what's this? What's that? What's hurting? So luckily, I've been doing pretty good. Not too many injuries. Yeah, having a good one, a good massage therapist to deal with injuries is just gigantic, right? Yeah, it's so important. They can prevent things, fix things.

Things that are starting to go south, they can stop it in its tracks and loosen everything up. Because sometimes when you get an injury, right, everything around it tightens up. And then when you're training, it gets even more fucked up. But if someone can loosen that up, then it has time to relax and heal. Yeah, or else it's just getting more tense and then you're going to rip something or whatever. So, yeah, that's so important. more tense and then you're gonna rip something or whatever so yeah that's so important and i think that's one of the key factors in being a pro athlete is the people you have around you yes and the the team that helps you balance everything out and they say hey like we go yeah you're the fighter

say yeah i'm rico the fighter i'm rico the champion because of all those people that are around me. So still, in the end, you're doing an individual sport, but you have a great team around you to be that person that you are in the ring. And at the highest level, I think you have to have that. You have to have all the ducks in line, right? Yeah. You have to have everything in line if you want to be at the very top of the heap. Yeah. You have to.

What about psychology? right yeah you have to have everything in line if you want to be at the very top of the heap yeah you have to what about uh psychology do you have a mental trainer or anybody who's like a sports psychologist well that's the fun thing i started off with um the guy i was telling you about of your lima he's uh also kickboxing world champion in different different divisions. And I was training with him. And he took me with his training, took me to his training. And I was working with him in his prime. And without him knowing, he was teaching me so much about mental training because I was training with him and he was never giving up. And the moment I just showed with him, and he was never giving up. And the moment when I just showed something, like, he gave even extra, even more gas. So when you started slowing down.

Yeah. And he was even pushing the pace even more. And that's what I was seeing in his fights. And I was just studying him. And from that, I learned so much. And I respect him. I'm still so thankful for that. And he's still my mental coach with that.

So he's in my corner. And every time when he says something, I just think about, I don't want to disappoint this man because he knows how important this is. And I think from the start of last year or something, the start of last year or something i was really like a little bit skeptical about talking to people like like a psychologist or something i was like i don't know let's talk about personal stuff you know that's pretty deep with somebody you don't know is i don't know does maybe in my mind just doesn't add up. It doesn't feel good. But still, I got in the situation that I had to.

Or, yeah, I just had to. And I went there. And it actually felt pretty good. So from that moment on, I just kept on doing it. Just talk about stuff. You know, it's just, you like no other know what, how many things happen, of what, everything that happens in your life. And you just got to process all that stuff. But sometimes you just, so many things happen in your life that you just can't process.

And you put them away. Yeah. And they're fucking with you in the back of your head. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And then when you just have the time or take the time to talk about this stuff, it just feels a lot better. It feels like a bag of bricks on your back.

You just fall off. Yeah. It feels good. So I think of it the same way you were talking about physical therapy. That like if you have little injuries, nagging injuries, you get it massaged out and everything loosens up. I think of it the same way you were talking about physical therapy, that, like, if you have little injuries, nagging injuries, you get it massaged out and everything loosens up. I think of it the same way. If you're not taking a good account of what's going on in your mind, you can develop, like, little mental injuries. Yeah, exactly.

But for me, and maybe a lot of people have, maybe not nowadays, but, like, from back in the days, people still had, like, when you're talking through a psychology, you crazy. Right, right, right, right. Or you're weak. Yeah, that's how people in Holland, like, approached it. Well, for here, for a long time here for fighters, it was the same thing. Like, most fighters didn't need a psychologist. That's not for winners. Winners know how to win.

You just don't be a pussy. You go out there and fucking fight. But that's nonsense. There's no pussies in professional fighting. But there is edge. You can get an edge. You can get an advantage. Whether you get that advantage from getting massage or cryotherapy

or from a sports psychologist, there's advantages to be had. Yeah. or cryotherapy or from a sports psychologist there's advantages to be had yeah so but i think that's what my uh what i got from my dad is just being tough being tough and being hard on yourself in whatever situation you're in just be tough on yourself and just because that's what he was he was tough on himself and so that's what i got from him and but now i just think like okay just do tweak everything up and just get mentally in balance and especially when he passed away like almost two years ago it's just yeah it was tough it was tough especially when the the relationship we had wasn't like it was like on and off on and off and when it was on

it was like a lot of discussion and it just just hurts and then things happen in your life and you just try to process everything and

give it a a certain spot but it's just hard sometimes and you just need somebody outside of your comfort zone to talk about that

right and yeah that that really that really worked and helped for me. So I'm very thankful for that. And just, you know, I think always our approach to things is everything in life happens for a reason, whatever, positive or negative. And sometimes you know what happens and why it happened. And sometimes you probably know it after like a few years. And maybe you never know it.

But in my opinion, everything in life, positive or negative, happens for a reason. And you just, yeah, it's on you. Well, whether it does or doesn't, if you decide that it does, that it happens for a reason, and you can find benefit in good or bad things, then it does happen for a reason. But you make that distinction that it's going to be for your benefit, that it can help you in the long run. That's the difference between a person who takes things that happen, adversity in life, and decides that the world is against them. Oh, I can't catch a break. The world's fucking me over.

Those people wind up becoming losers versus someone who says, you know what? We're going to be fine. This is going to make me better. This is going to make me stronger. This is going to make me understand. Even though I'm more vulnerable right now, this is going to make me understand myself better.

It's going to ultimately make me better at everything I do. If you decide that, then things do happen for a reason. Exactly. And that's one of the reasons I love watching your podcast because that's what you bring. And especially what I think for people that maybe sometimes struggle with certain things or like you just explain in a situation where you think like, fuck, what the fuck did I do to life that constantly everything just backfires on me? I always think like you are responsible for the choices that you make in your life and nobody else. You're also responsible for how you accept or how you focus on your life.

Exactly. How you think about things and how you process you process it you're responsible for it yeah so and those those are things like are so important to me and that's why that and that's what I mean with I try to surround myself with people that boost my flame hmm and just look at my phone and just go through it like, who did I text or who did I call? Those people need to boost my flame. They need to be important in one way or the other.

It doesn't mean that they have to be important in business or in work or it can be in love or in family or whatever. They need to be important in some kind of way I just need to have positivity around me because I've seen so many negative things from my family side that it's like it doesn't work drains you it drains you and I believe like it's like karma if you you're negative you will attract more negative things if you're positive or positive things will come your way i'm 100 i believe that as well do you um have a

visualization plan when you go into a fight like say like this rematch with Badr Hari are you going to sit down and visualize certain scenarios do you train your thought process to go over scenarios or to have a game plan in your mind the way execute the fight the way you would like to imagine it of course I think every fighter does

and before is this something you set aside like do you meditate set aside time to do that or do you just do that all the time? No, it just happens. You're just doing it all the time? You're in the car or whatever. Yeah, it just happens when you're on the treadmill or whatever. It just happens when you think about what's going to happen in the upcoming months you just know that okay

this is going to be next level okay but how are we going to approach this fight what is going to happen what might happen if he does this i do that okay but this could happen and that could happen and in my mind before going into the fight i fought it already like a thousand times maybe even more because you're thinking thinking about this person and this fight for so long and for like three or four months, that's a long time. So that happens. And what I always feel like what's fun to people to to realize is that my confident level during a period of like three four months into a fight goes like up and down up and down people like how is that possible

you are the fucking best of what you do you're smacking the shit out of everybody in the in in in training and in camp and And how does that happen? I don't know, but that is what happens. I think that happens to everybody. So you just accept the process. You just accept the process, but it's such a fucking frustrating process that when you're here, you just try to get back up there again. But you know that it is part of the process

because I've been doing this my whole life. So I know it's part of the process, but still it's frustrating. So, and that's what, for example, such a mental coach and a psychologist can help you with to cope with that at that moment so that you don't stay here. You do climb back up again but it's it's and then

you say where but where does that come from can come from anywhere you know from your body being tired like hey why can i cope with this training or why is this training getting to me or during sparring why did i get get hit five times with the right hand and didn't block or react or whatever? So it can come from anywhere. And then the monotony of training as well, right? Yeah. Yeah. So now this fight that's going to be happening December 21st, how can people get it?

Is it going to be available on UFC Fight Pass? Yeah. It's going to be UFC Fight Pass. And I believe it's on ESPN as well. Okay. Is it ESPN 2? 2, I think so. But I'm not 100% sure.

Well, I'll find out and we'll make sure we tell everybody when it's taking place. So we'll make sure we get a bunch of people to watch that, man. Of course. I'm fucking very pumped. This is going to be kickboxing history so it is it really is like you said probably the biggest fight in kickboxing history yeah so it's just it's and then of course you had like back in the days we had so much so many great fights and we had the k1 tournament it was it was amazing but this is just the the one the biggest

one-on-one fight from this time. From this time, yeah, in this era. Yeah, from this era that everybody wants to see. Well, I hope a million fucking people watch it or more, and I hope it really does open up the door for bigger and bigger fights because I think that it's, look, Glory's amazing. You guys have so many incredibly talented fighters and so many high-level fights.

I fucking love it man i'm just such a huge fan i don't understand why it's not bigger in america i know it's bigger in europe yeah but that's yeah for us the same thing so we just hope that during the years you know we just keep building it up building it up and hope like for example with with Anthony uh open up more opening up more gyms more great American kickboxers and American fighters will stand up and compete well that would be amazing who knows this might be it man this one might be the one that changes the tide exactly well good luck to you brother and thank you very much thank you so much really appreciate you appreciate your time oh let everybody know your Instagram, your Twitter.

How do they get it? My Instagram and Twitter, it's all the same. Just Rico Verhoeven. And spell it out for people so they just know how to spell Verhoeven. Okay. So it's R-I-C-O, says Rico, and then V-E-R-H-O-E-V-E-N. All right. Beautiful.

That's it. Bye, everybody. Thanks, guys. Peace.