The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #78 with Andre Ward

Episode Date: September 3, 2019

Joe sits down with former boxer and current ESPN analyst Andre Ward, who retired from professional boxing with an undefeated 32-0 record.

Two, one, boom. Andre Ward, ladies and gentlemen. How are you, brother? I'm good, man. How you doing? Thank you very much for doing this, man. I'm a big fan, so I was very excited to do this. Appreciate you having me. You did it. In terms of, like, if you're a young fighter and you've got aspirations, what do you want to do? You want to be an Olympic gold medalist, you want to win multiple world titles, two-division world champion, and you retired undefeated. titles two division world champion and you retired undefeated you you're the one you're like a unicorn man you're a rare dude because you retired at 35 right 33 33 yeah that's crazy like you're in the peak of your athletic abilities and you go you know what we did enough i'm out yeah

i mean it sounds it sounds all neat and buttoned up uh but it wasn't it wasn't that easy like i didn't know how things were gonna go throughout the course of my career um but for whatever reason like i always even as a young kid i'm talking 10 years old like i had this thought like you know i don't want to end up like a lot of fighters end up like they seem to go high really high and then all of a sudden they come crashing down like they start well but they don't end well yeah that's what that's what drew me to Roy Jones Jr. um country boy had swag and he'd always talk about himself in the third person he'd be like man you know Roy Jones I don't you know I don't love the sport like that man I'm

gonna get in and get out I'm just special at it and I'm gonna be fishing on my farm one you know one day in Pensacola Florida and I was like man this dude is different fighters don't talk like that so he was the first one that gave me the thought of getting in and getting out and then again i just i just studied it throughout the course of my career even other athletes and entertainers like i just i was enamored by it so that was always a goal just as much as i wanted to win a gold medal world championship i wanted to leave on top when people were asking, why are you leaving? Yeah. It's so difficult to make that decision, though.

I mean, Roy Jones Jr. didn't even make that decision. He didn't. He said he was going to do it. And then, I mean, he had some rough knockouts. Late in his career. Hard to watch. Some of them that people didn't even see. Yeah.

Yeah. Heartbreaking. Yes. Especially if you followed people didn't even see. Yeah. Heartbreaking. Yes. Especially if you followed him and supported him like I have. Especially if you know his decision was based on Gerald McClellan. A lot of it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When Gerald McClellan, for people who don't know, was a murderer, man.

I mean, he was a savage light heavyweight. But he was cutting a lot of weight. And he wound up having a serious brain injury and in in that epic fight with nigel ben which is an amazing amazing fight ben got off the deck it looked like the fight was over because gerald mcclellan would just murk people man absolutely like a prototypical cronk destroyer you know big right hand who Tall, strong as fuck, super aggressive, knockout striker. And for whatever reason, Roy decided, you know what, let's just keep doing it. Fuck it.

There's a lot of different reasons why people do that, man. I just didn't want to be one of them, simply put. But the retirement is coming up on two years, September 21st. It's harder than I thought it was going to be. One of the most hardest things I've ever was going to be. One of the most hardest things I've ever had to do, but one of the most rewarding. And the way I reconcile it in my brain is that, okay, at some point I'm going to have to do this. At some point I'm going to have to face the emotions and the pull to come back and trying to figure out if your body can

still do it. And just all the different things you go through, whether I'm in my prime or whether I'm 40, 45 years old. So you can't avoid it. It's just when do you want to take on that task? So you retired at 33, 35 now. So God damn, man, you're right there. I mean, you have like four more years to be, unless you're Bernard Hopkins, then you have another decade. But to Bernard's credit, he started late.

He did. Bernard started at 20-some years old and graded for state prison. Yes. I started at nine years old. Well, also, Bernard developed this insane discipline while in prison. The hardships of prison were so awful. The feeling of being locked up and contained that he fucked up his life. He was so bound and determined to become something special. I mean, he's so disciplined. Well, even beyond that, like he opened up his eyes and he looked at the landscape and he realized that most fighters are not disciplined. Most fighters, they like the idea of being a champion.

They like the idea of winning, you know, championships and what that brings, not just the championships of what the championships and the money brings. The ladies that, you know, the party and all the stuff. And he said, I'm going to do it a different way. Like these guys are out gaining weight 20 pounds in between fights i'm gonna live like a spartan he under he got the revelation and he just stuck to it yeah he ate clean he lived a clean life and he fought so disciplined yeah he fought so smart he was one of the best defensive fighters ever just and people didn't like that style man he would pop you and grab you pop you and grab you and people get

frustrated they would get out of composure and they would start doing the things that maybe they shouldn't have done and then he would capitalize on those things i remember when he fought trinidad man i mean these trinidad was a killer and i love tito i do too i mean he was a killer i got a chance to see tito fight live in vegas once was amazing but when bernard started putting it on him i was like wow this is first of all this is a like a legitimate middleweight fighting guy is really a welterweight and this is also a really special fighter who just figures people out he fought tito in new york city in madison square garden which is which is little puerto rico yes like you know i think it was the week of the the puerto rican day. Like, and previously to that fight in Puerto Rico, Bernard Hopkins took the Puerto Rican flag, threw it down, caused a melee, had to run out of there, get snatched out of the arena, wherever they were having a press conference, get thrown on the plane.

Like, the beef was real. Oh, yeah. And to be able to, like, perform under that kind of pressure, unreal. One of my favorite fights. When he was running away from the crowd in Puerto Rico, and you realize, oh my God, he's on his own here. Literally, people are trying to kill him. But what's even crazier is he knew that was going to happen.

He knew, okay, this is getting ready to happen in three, two, one. Threw the flag down, and it was on. Oh, man. But it worked. First of all, it got so many people to pay attention to that fight. And then two, it got Tito emotional. If he lost that fight, he was back to the back of the bus. If he wins the fight, which he did, he moves on to become great. Yeah, he moves on to greatness.

It's interesting when you watch his style as well, that very technical, very disciplined style versus roy's style which was so athletic and explosive and very unusual with that lead left hook that he would fire off more than a jab i mean roy had a crazy style and then when you watch roy outpoint bernard early yep but then bernard comes back later in his career and really kind of like shut roy down yeah and showed like when the athleticism starts to slip away a little bit Roy is normal he's a human he's a human yeah whereas Bernard was still this incredibly disciplined very well-schooled boxer it was a real good lesson for fighters to see the deal like this is why you use the fundamentals this is why you fight correctly you can get away with being Roy Jones Jr. but Roy Jones Jr. with his physical gifts i feel like he could have got away with fighting discipline too he could have got

away with fighting technically but you know he just chose to fight his way it worked for a long time it worked until it didn't work but it worked better than anybody i mean it was amazing to watch in the day when he was on top yeah you know when he was knocking out virgil hill with body shots and putting his hands behind his back and knocking dudes out. That was the guy I fell in love with, you know, but he could have, Roy could have, he could have gone and had a full career and rode off in the sunset and been in

Pensacola fishing, hunting, doing whatever he does. And still not really been super fundamentally sound. But I mean, after he beat John Ruiz for the heavyweight championship of the world. And I've been going to multiple Roy fights leading up to that heavyweight fight. Antonio Tarver, who I have a lot of respect for, you know, they were rivals in Florida when they were young. Antonio was following Roy around, trying to get him to notice him, trying to get him to take a fight. around trying to get him to notice him trying to get him to take a fight and i remember clear as day in the post-fight press conference after roy became the heavyweight champion of the world after

being the middleweight champion starting at 160 uh antonio tarver interrupted the press conference he said roy jones you've been ducking me you've been running he's going on and on and on roy looks at tarver and and gives him the attention that he's been after. And he said, oh, he said, I'm a whoop you. I'm a whoop you. We'll make that fight happen. And at that moment, I'm thinking like, no, Roy, no, don't do it. You're the heavyweight champion of the world. Tarver was still light heavyweight. And sure enough, Roy went down, stripped off 25 pounds of muscle That he had built up With Mackie Shieldstone

To get ready for the heavyweight fight Went down there Fought a close fight But he didn't look like himself Took the rematch Now even after the first fight with Tarver Man you run for the heels You know what

I beat him I wasn't myself I'm going back up Took the rematch And then got knocked out Yeah I didn't That's weird I thought the first fight was earlier.

Now, my brain scrambled here because I thought that that was immediately after the Ruiz fight that he got knocked out. Yeah, it was. He went back down. Yeah. So Ruiz, light heavyweight, went down, fought Tarver the first time,

then fought the rematch, and then got knocked out the second time. Oh, so they fought two times in a row? They fought two times in a row, and then they ended up fighting a third time way down the road. Did they really? I didn't even know they fought a third time in florida yeah the loss of the weight was a terrible idea and also let's be realistic about how we put that weight on

it's most likely there's some mexican supplements involved and if you're gonna put that kind of bulk on you know i mean i don't know yeah roy j listening roy jones one of my heroes that's not disrespect no i hear you but and i've heard people say stuff like that but like i'm that's my guy i'm like i'm a kid so i'm like no i get it i don't know i get it i'm believing that it was just roy mackie shillstone and hard work i believe it is that it's possible it's possible but i mean what is he like he was was like 33, 34 at the time? He was somewhere around there, yeah. 34, 35. It's very hard to put 25 pounds of muscle on. Yeah. Well, it didn't really. See, he cut weight to make the light heavyweight limit, right?

So you got to think he was probably like 185, 190 maybe. 190 probably. Yeah. And so he really only gained maybe 10, 15 pounds. Still, he was lean as fuck. Yeah, he was pretty lean. It's hard. He was thick though too.

Roy had that kind of build. He was country strong. Yeah he was pretty lean He was thick though too Roy had that kind of build He was country strong Yeah very muscular I mean he had crazy biceps And no tri-tips Yeah It was all just Whipping left hooks

It was weird right He had a crazy body I didn't notice that Dude his body Was very unusual The way he was built Like he was all biceps It was just whipping

You know he's Just from whipping punches Whipping body shots yeah no he was phenomenal you got a picture of him jamie yeah oh the tv's are on yeah that's my guy no listen i'm a gigantic roy jones jr fan but i mean i feel like like that's there's one example right there you see how gigantic his biceps are but you see it almost more while he's fighting i mean really had like a body built to hook you yeah yeah what if jones remained a heavyweight i mean look he was so goddamn fast as i mean john ruiz just was whiffing

at air in that fight well the thing about the after the ruiz fight is you know we had the same manager uh james prince there was a tyson fight on the table uh and i believe i'm accurate when i say this it was somewhere around $40 million guaranteed. Whoa. There's an upside, too. You stay at heavyweight, keep the weight on. And Tyson wasn't quite Tyson at that time. Still dangerous, but wasn't quite Tyson.

I think they were working toward it. From what I've heard, Roy wanted more money. James Prince was like, bro, take this, $40 million. There's going to be an upside. It's you and Mike Tyson, Roy Jones and Mike Tyson. Roy somehow said, nope, the fight will be there later on down the road. Put his attention toward Antonio Tarver. The rest is history.

Wow. I'm kind of glad he didn't fight Tyson. I wanted to see him fight Tyson and ride off in the sunset. Uno mas. One more and we're out. Yeah, but I don't think he would have. I don't think Roy was ever really going to ride off in the sunset. He likes being Roy Jones Jr. so much. Tyson Jones had 2003 fight card.

Is that around when he fought Gulotta? They were supposed to start an HBO pay-per-view, and they were supposed to be the first fight on it. Go to Mike Tyson's Wikipedia, his record, because I think that was around the time where he fought Gulotta. He was still murking people. I mean, he wasn't the Mike Tyson of the later years. Yeah, yeah.

He was still. I don't think Tyson fought Gulotta, did he? Oh, yeah. He stopped him. Yeah, Gulotta left the ring. He dropped him and hurt him real bad. Andrew Gulotta? Yeah, and Gulotta was like, fuck this.

Really? His trainer called him a coward. He was yelling and screaming. He hit him with one punch and dropped him. And Gulotta was like, fuck this. And he broke something in his neck. He broke his face and something in dropped him. And Gulotta was like, fuck this. And he broke something in his neck. He broke his face

and something in his neck. Yeah, you gotta look that up. That was three years before this. That was 2000. Oh, okay. You never seen that? I probably did.

I don't remember him fighting Tyson. Yeah, Gulotta left the ring. He dropped, see it says, well, RTD, what does that stand for? Retired.

Because he quit. Yeah. And so the next dude he quit. Yeah. And so the next dude, too. Yeah, Mike Tyson was- Last thing I remember of Andrew Gulotta is his fights with Riddick Bowe. Oh, those were crazy. Low blows. That was the last thing I remember of Gulotta.

It was crazy. He just decided to keep punching him in the dick. Like, I never saw anything like that in my life. Like, he fought him well in the first fight, but he kept hitting him low. Like, whenever things would go bad for him- Looking for a way out. He would just look for a way out and that's what he did with tyson yeah tyson dropped him see if he could pull that up pull up the the ko because tyson hit him with like a perfect right hand boom dropped him and galada got up and was like fuck this his corner

was screaming at him and he literally just climbed out of the ropes and said see ya just walk back to the dressing room yeah some some was with Gulotta, man. Definitely. Something was off. Well, he was crazy. He had done a lot of crazy street shit, too, and been involved in bar fights and stuff like that. It doesn't seem like he went down. He just quit after the second round.

See if you can find the video. I'm watching the video. I don't see him falling. Well, pull it up so we can watch it. What are you watching by yourself? Yeah, well, I'm trying to interrupt the conversation. There he goes. He went down right here, I guess.

Yeah, he went down, man. I remember the fight very clearly. He hit him with a clean right hand. It would have been round one, though. Here, show it. Yeah, it was a one-round fight. It was a two-round fight, but I think he went down in the first. Okay, here it is.

Boom! And it went down right here. So Gulotta went down, and at the end, I think it was in between rounds is when he decided to bail. I think that's why. Yeah, it was right after the second here. This is the second ending, and he quits. Here, this think it was in between rounds is when he decided to bail. I think that's why. Yeah, it was right after the second here. This is the second ending, and he quits. Here, this guy's come in.

Yeah, he's just like, no. Well, we'd have to watch the whole fight. Yeah, I think I remember that, bro. It was the right hand, and then he pushed the referee off. Fuck you. I'm out of here. He knew something was wrong, too. And he had, I think he had a fractured orbital,

and I believe there was something wrong with his neck, too. Like, it broke a bone in his neck. I don't know, bro. That's Andrew Gulotta for you, man. Yeah, he was crazy. Yeah. It was something off with him. I don't know whatever happened to him.

I don't know. Probably not good. I hope he got some help. You know what I mean? It's, you know, when you think about a career as a heavyweight fighter, too, and all the heavy blows that that guy took, whatever mental problems he might have had were certainly compounded. That didn't help. No, no, no. No.

You had an amazing career, but one of the things that I think maybe people aren't as aware of makes your career even more incredible is you fought for a long time with a bad shoulder like if you go back and watch the carl frotch fight i watched that getting ready for this i watched it again you boxed the shit out of him with mostly your left hand yeah it was crazy yeah 12 years old tore my subscapularis um which is 50 is responsible for 50% of the strength in a rotator. Didn't really know it at the time we were told, Hey, he's too young. You know, he shouldn't have surgery. Just rehab it. Wrong advice. Found that out, you know, 10 years later, but we just rehabbed it with, you know, bands and strengthening exercises, but we never had surgery. So that was always kind of my Achilles heel, man. Like, there's been plenty of fights where I just fought one-handed

because it didn't feel strong. It didn't feel, like, safe. I felt like any time I would throw it, it could pop out of the socket. Like, that's how it felt. So it had popped out before? It had not. Oh, but it felt like it could. Got it fixed right around 2013, and it wasn't 100, but it was better.

And I was able to finish out the rest of my career So I got still not a hundred now. It's not a hundred but I'll take it Yeah, I'll take it bro. Like I probably gained about 30 40 percent with that surgery like they they grabbed it because the subscapularis was loose It wasn't attached but it wasn't atrophied. It was still like a fat thriving muscle. It just wasn't attached My doctor was like, oh like is this ever popped out of the socket? Dr. Michael Dillingham in San Francisco. I was like, no. He was like, how? Like your shoulder capsules like shot. The subscap is hanging. He said, but the good news is it's still a thriving muscle. Let's get it attached. Boom. He attached it like a four hour surgery, something like that.

One of those surgeries that you're not guaranteed to come out of the same. And you had to wait for a month or so to see if the surgery took like if everything would mend and kind of get you know kind of get stronger it took man and like i said i finished out the rest of my career strong wow so how long was the rehab probably about eight months so you went from it was about 2012 to 2015 where you didn't fight very often is that was that very infrequently yeah was that because of the combination of a lawsuit uh and the injury yeah it's kind of like back-to-back blows so for eight months you're rehabbing it and just still like when did you know that for sure you're going

to be able to come back you kind of turn a corner and rehab you know three three month mark you know four month mark you kind of realize it dude like i'm i'm good like i'm not where i need to be but like i'm headed there so probably about that time about halfway through you realize that you're gonna be okay it's just gonna take some time to fully get the strength back but even my next fight against edwin rariga is like i still didn't throw it and i didn't realize i didn't throw it until i watched the tape i watched the tape i was like dang you still this is like a one-handed affair and then after that thing about injuries is weird. Like that 12-month period for me has always been like just like that sweet spot.

So I got to that 12-month period with the shoulder, and all of a sudden my overhand right came back. I hadn't thrown an overhand right in 10 years. You know, the power in my right uppercut came back. I'm like, dude, this is getting better. So after that, then you started to see that thing flying and started whistling. And ironically enough, my last fight, that was the punch that started all the trouble for Sergey Kovalev. Well, it's interesting because you were so successful with one hand.

You know, it makes you wonder, like, how goddamn good would you have been if you had two hands? Or was it your left hand was so educated? It had to be. It had to be. But one of the things you were so good at, man, was, I don't have to tell you you know this was uh using your jab to shut down southpaw fighters shut down their

jab and counter yeah you know and you just had that you had like extra juice with your left hand because you used it so much i had to like when you have one hand or one arm that that functions really well like you learn to make that thing great. Like, you know, you overcompensate. And that's what that left hand was, overcompensation, because I didn't have the right hand to fall back on, you know. But the whole southpaw thing, shout out to my boy Nick and Nate Diaz, like in all the work we've done in camp. Like those guys got me ready for a lot of my southpaw opponents, like, you know, midway through and toward the end of my career. So a lot of work with those guys. And specifically, Nate, at a certain point i stopped working with uh nick because he was doing

other things but nate man and then the volume and having to like deal with the awkwardness and the height and the reach and like that got me ready for chad dawson that's amazing that's my boy yeah he's a tough dude man you know and watching him come back after three years out of the game yeah beat pettis like that. I shot him a message. I was like, bro, you're a bad man. You're a bad man. Like three years, really?

He's a bad man. Well, I'm just happy that the UFC is finally recognizing the love and support that guy has from the fans, too. Because for whatever reason, they were so high on Conor McGregor and all these other people, they didn't see. One of the reasons why the Conor fight was so big was because of Nate Diaz. Nate Diaz is a fucking star when he when they put his face on the screen for the pettis fight i mean the arena erupted it was chaos they went nuts yeah i mean i don't know why they couldn't see it i mean connor obviously was you know he was a little bit different and he brought what he brought to the table but probably would have been a good thing to try to balance

them both out show love to to nate but you know he was like the rebel child you know he say whatever came to his mind and you know the powers that be they don't like that um i think he was a little overshadowed by his brother too because you know when your brother's a superstar there's something about i mean and especially like his brother when he was fighting in strike force in particular was one of the best fighters in the world he was just amazing and then you know especially like um you know during like his title reign like when he was at at his peak when he's fighting in strike force but for whatever reason they just you know nate just flew under the radar until that kind of mcgregor fight the first one yeah then they recognize yeah i hope they capitalize on it now you know while he still has a few years left. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. It's that whole layoff thing and not even trying to stay relevant, but just trying to keep your skills from eroding. That's a whole thing right there. And then trying to go perform after that amount of time, it's hard. Yeah. Me and him have fallen from that and not come back the same. Yeah, he didn't lose a beat. It was crazy.

He looked as good as ever. It was amazing. The good thing is, though, he seems to always be working. And that's what saved me when I was off, like just always like chipping away in the gym. You know, he's got, you know, him and his brother got, they got their own schools, and they're always in there grappling, working out.

So that's what saved him. Now, if you take off three years of nothing, two years of nothing, a year of nothing, that's when you come back and you look like a totally different person. I always point to Muhammad Ali. When Muhammad Ali was forced to retire, when he took three years off and then he came back, he did not look physically like the same guy.

Who did he come back and fight? It wasn't Chuck Wepner. It was, what the fuck's his name? Was it Zero Folly? No, no, no, no, no. It was, fuck. It's a tragic guy a white dude and then his brother was also like uh how can i not remember his fucking name i think i know you're talking about man um

jamie will pull it up i know you're talking about too uh cory yes jerry quarry yeah jerry quarry and his brother apparently who only had like one or two pro fights at all, also had severe dementia by the time he died. He had how many fights? His brother? His brother only had a couple. I think he only had a couple pro fights. It was mostly just gym wars. I think I remember correctly.

But Quarry and his dad apparently forced them to have that kind of fight style. They just went to war all the time. Not good, bro. Yes. And during the end of his career the end of his life i should say that's why i don't that's why i don't i don't subscribe like here's the thing like for me this is my view on if you love combat sports if you love fighting if you love boxing like you enjoy it all like i love the guy that has to take two to give one

but i also love the master and i'll just speak for boxing the the problem that we have is like we've ostracized the the master of the game instead of articulating what we're seeing or trying to articulate what we're seeing and leaving that you know leaving it right there let it be what it is and let the fans decide what they like and don't like we tried to tell the fans what they should like oh you know and this is boring hold on that's the guy that's going to be speaking properly when all is said and done this guy hopefully he is too but the likelihood is a lot less because you take giving two to give one but as soon as that guy gets knocked out then all of a sudden everybody turns on yeah so i'm thankful that when i walked into the gym for the first time my dad was scouring for a trainer who

could teach his son how to hit and not get hit. He saw Verge, who became my godfather and has been my trainer, you know, for my whole career. He said, man, I'm a fan of Muhammad Ali. He said, I've had 15, you know, amateur fights as a heavyweight. Can you teach my son how to hit and not get hit? And Verge said, that's my specialty. But just think if my dad was on something else. What if my dad was on, make my son tough.

I want him to take it and dish it up i may not be sitting before you right now and if you did it would probably be a different kind of conversation yeah virgil hunter is a special guy he really is you could tell when you hear him talking you know when you hear him talk about the game and the way he would formulate game plans and strategies you know so you know i remember i think it was the chad dawson fight i think it was the Chad Dawson fight. I think it was that when you knocked out Chad Dawson, when you could see the look in his face of happiness and accomplishment. But also, we got through the danger.

We did it. It's over. But game accomplished. You know, when you have a special relationship, whether it's in MMA or whether it's in boxing. Those special relationships between a trainer and a fighter, they're so valuable. And to me, as a person who loves to watch the sport, I appreciate them so much because I know that you could get there on your own. You can get there and have feuds with your trainer and break up. You can get – like Kovalev does. Like Kovalev's John David Jackson for a while

and now I like that he's with Buddy McGurk. But it's better if you have a real harmonious relationship with a master because that's what Virgil Hunter is.

He's a master. He understands the game. He understands an inside and out. One thing he used to always tell me and I never looked at it like that.

He was like, son, my sole purpose, my main focus is to get you home safe to your family so it's not for us to win championships it's not for you to be all everything it's to get you home to Tiffany and those kids safely and when he said that it just put it all in perspective for me he's a competitor he wants to win but not at the expense of my health and because he taught me the right way we got the wins and the belts and everything anyway and then i was also able to go home to my family so that's amazing relationship you know one of the things that always stood out to me about you was how composed you are and you rarely get emotional you know even like i remember when you fought carl froch carl froch hit you clearly

after the bell clearly in a fight you were dominating. And you just went like this. You just said, you didn't even get mad. You didn't go, fuck you. You did nothing. You took that punch and you just went, turned and just went back to your corner like it never happened. Like you just wiped it clean. Like that's not going to benefit me to get upset here. How did you develop that kind of composure?

you develop that kind of composure i think one thing that my dad and verge did really well for me and my brother jonathan who boxed with me for many years uh they gave us mental reps like like i'd be driving in the car or riding in the car with verge or my dad and they'd be telling me listen man when you get in that ring when you spar today man listen that dude try to hit you low you make sure you get your respect you don't accept this in the ring like this is these are things that i was taught i was like i was taught to be a warrior at a young age and oftentimes trainers will train the body but they don't train the mind so plus and also life experiences things that i've been through with my mom my dad and just just all that kind of stuff plus my internal makeup the way you know god made me all of that combined i never had to be the loudest talker in the room because i knew that all the all the stuff the real stuff is in me it's not on me so i'm the type that you hit

me like that i'm gonna smile at you i got you we got another round to fight sir so my my anger my my get back i'm gonna get it within the confines of these rules but you're gonna feel me kovalev knocked me down all right bro i got you i smiled you're embarrassed you're mad you're frustrated you're everything and in that eight second that eight counts you're getting you feel all every emotion you could possibly feel but inside I knew like Now you're gonna have to knock me out because i'm coming to get it. So Some of it is innate some of it was taught and then throughout the course of my life and career I was I was given the mental reps. Hey son, watch him right here

Watch how so-and-so pushed his hand down and he got right back in his face not out of the ring But in the ring teaching me and showing me and highlighting what a strong mind was and what a weak mind was. And typically the weak mind was the loudest talker. Now, don't get me wrong. I love a guy that can talk to talk and back it up. It's not a lot of those in the game, no MMA or boxing. So I'm afraid of the guy who's not saying very much. The guy that's hard to read, the guy we're trying to figure out, man it what's up with him that's the guy i'm concerned about the loudest talker i used to get excited when guys used to just go over the top i'd be like man this dude i got him

keep talking i got him same thing with kovalev fought the first fight clothes could have went either way uh but from the time the first fight ended until the time the second fight started, I learned more about that guy in that period of time than I did in any round that I fought him in. He said so much. And I was poking holes in it. I was quiet. And I was just sitting back. And everybody was misreading the silence.

Oh, Ward's scared. He's not going to take the rematch. I'm just sitting there like, you know, taking notes, man. This guy, keep talking. Keep talking. And he was just saying things. I like this is a weakness now if he would have said look i felt like i won that fight i felt like they robbed me i'm coming back to get it and then went silent went dark now i'm like man this dude is getting ready we got we got to tighten up kept talking man sometimes that talking to reveal a little bit too much about yourself

what did you see from the talking? Just excuse making. He didn't give me any credit. He started, I mean, if it wasn't the ring, and I'm exaggerating, but just for the case of emphasis, you know, if the ring lights weren't too bright, the referee was against him. If it wasn't the referee, it was the judges. Like he never owned up to anything that he did wrong. But if I go back to the research that we did about him

before we even fought him the first time, that line double will be heard. The guy, he doesn't take ownership of anything. He blames everybody. Anytime anything goes wrong, he's a front runner. He's a bully. He's this, he's that. That confirmed everything we had heard. So you're the crusher. You're Sergey Kovalev. You knocked me down in the second round, not the 11th, the second round. You were supposed to finish me, sir. The fact that we're even talking about a fight being close. The fact that I finished the fight. That's bothering you. That that that that's a that that's that's chipping away at this whole crusher thing that you've been living on, and he couldn't handle it. And instead of owning it, he blamed John David Jackson.

He blamed this guy, blamed that guy. That's a sign of weakness, man, not strength. Were you impressed with him getting through the eighth round against Yard in his last fight? I wouldn't say impressed. I mean, listen, he hasn't gotten where he's gotten by not being tough. So generally speaking, he's tough. He's a tough individual to a point. I wasn't surprised. I was just I was like, dude, if you ever if a fighter has ever been saved by the bail, you were just saved by the bail. Like you were a punch, a punch or two away from getting, you know, getting stopped in your home country and in your home, your home your home city hometown that was the only kind of like jarring part of it um and then my next

thought was can he recover is he going to be able to physically recover then psychologically come back and try to get back what yard took from him in that round and he did that so he showed me that he still got something in the tank but he he's um he what's the right way to say it he's fading fast like he's fading right before our eyes he doesn't have the reaction he doesn't have he's still very good he still he still can beat a lot of guys but he's fading fast if there's a canelo fight on the table i think you should take it and ride off in the sunset man go enjoy your life well it was interesting how you exposed him in the second fight because the body shots the body shots have been a weakness like since then everybody has kind of compromised his body

they've found what you found out is that something you knew going into the second fight or did you know it in the first fight like when we knew that in the first fight did you problem with me in the in the first fight um first couple rounds i was thinking too much and this dude came out fast so i'm thinking like i'm trying to get my range and he's like boom boom boom and he's it's not that he's like this crazy power puncher it's just that he's sharp and he's accurate so i'm like catching shots i'm getting hit with jabs i'm trying to figure he didn't give me a chance to think and then boom i got hit with the right hand and i'm like that's it bro so that was the best thing that could have happened to me like i said earlier and then you saw the body attack get implemented so that was always the game plan i won the second fight with

everything that i did in the first fight like we unlocked the code in the first fight but people couldn't get past the knockdown right they failed to look at the you know the next 10 rounds but yeah the next 10 rounds you started to take over and you were solving the riddle. It's interesting, the difference in power punchers. There's levels of power punchers. We always thought of him as this power puncher because he's the crusher. He knocked a lot of people out. But then there's like a Julian Jackson level.

There's a snap. And then some people just go stiff. George Foreman. Yes. Like George could kill you. Yes. The Joe Frazier fight. Yes. George Foreman. Yes. Like George could kill you. Yes. The Joe Frazier fight. Yes.

Like Jesus Christ. Yes. Terrifying. Yeah. Yeah, George was one of them. I mean, there's been a bunch of guys like that, but that's that different level of power punching. I mean, Ernie Shavers was another one.

There's certain guys. You know, I mean, fuck, man. Thomas Hearns in his prime. Tommy Hearns. The way he put away Roberto Duran. Holy shit shit kill you and also the torque you know the there was so much the distance between like the the length of his arms the width of his shoulders and then black when that punch would come in jesus catch you on the end you got trouble you get caught and that last that last power area yes yes it would just put the lights out

kovalev never had that kind of power it was like a snapping power i mean listen he did have power i don't want to take away from him yes he beat a lot of guys in their hometowns home countries like and it's a reason why like at a certain point in the fight you would see him hit a guy and then all of a sudden their body language is different and i think one thing that was lost on my whole career that nobody ever talked about was I probably had one of the best tens in the sport of boxing over the last, you know, at that time, 10 years. Like I had beaten the best, the heaviest punchers in the game and in my weight class. Like if you look at Kovalev, out of all the damage that he's done in the light heavyweight division, he had 20 rounds. He had one moment. He didn't have a wobble. He didn't have a,

he didn't shake me up anywhere. Be one moment. And it was a flash moment. So just quantify that like a guy who his name is the crusher. Like he is who he is. He had one moment in 20 rounds. So a lot of it had to do with my chin. A lot of it had to do with my toughness, um, which is also underrated. And, and I just like like I know this is going to sound dramatic. I know it's going to sound dramatic, but I didn't like to lose. And for me, it was kind of like either win or die. Like that's like that's how I feel like it wasn't that serious, but that's how it felt. Like I always thought about Sunday morning. Dude, if you lose, it's's gonna be a crazy ride home on that plane family's

gonna be looking crazy feeling bad everybody's gonna be looking at you different like and you're gonna feel crazy like i remember being curled up like in a ball on a southwest flight coming back from lenexa kansas uh losing my the last fight i ever lost against John Revish, a guy from Baton Rouge, Louisiana. How old were you back then? 14. That is hilarious. 14. 14 years old.

Till retired, never lost again. And John was, it was a 14, 15-year-old bracket. So he was a little bit older. And he was kind of a stocky kid. Again, country strong. And we were watching each other in separate backers. So, you know, it's like a five-day tournament. You can fight four to five times to get to the finals and I'm looking at him and I was a little

bit intimidated he didn't punk me like oh I'm scared to death but I was like man I'm a little leery and he was knocking guys out and I was decisioning guys along the way it could have went either way I think he won a 3-2 decision three judges went his way two judges went my way but that was but if i was honest with myself like i got beat before the fight and at that moment like feeling the way i felt coming home i made up my mind like dude as much as that's up to me like that's never gonna happen again like i can't control every every aspect of the fight game stuff happens but it's going to be because you beat me before the fight. I can't live with this anymore. So that was my motivation, man, just to drive.

It was like win or die. And then here's the thing about boxing. I don't know about MMA, but the only sport that I know of where one loss changes your pay scale. Like if you have a minimum, like, hey, you win a title, your first defense is this, second defense is that. These are your minimums. We'll negotiate beyond minimum okay you win a title your first defense is this second

defense is that these are your minimums we'll negotiate beyond that you know whatever whatever go ahead and lose one that's gonna get cut in half so a loss literally takes food off my family's table i also knew that my critics and my supporters but namely my critics they had a front row seat every fight got the type and the writers. They're looking down, they're looking up, looking down, looking up. So I'd get in the ring, you know, before the first bill would ring, and I'd go around and kind of just feel the ring out and kind of look out, and I'd always see them looking.

Is tonight going to be the night? So I had that weighing on me. I had the supporters that believed in me and was riding for me. And I'd look, you know, first couple rows, my family's right there, my wife, my kids, I'd always blow her a kiss. Like all of this stuff was like tangible was riding for me. And I look, you know, first couple of rows, my family's right there, my wife, my kids that always blow her a kiss. Like all of this stuff was like tangible and real to me. And that's the stuff that would drive me. And so when I get knocked down by a Kovalev, like that's fight or flight time, baby.

Like whatever's in you is going to come out. If you got some turn in you, that's the time you're going to turn. It's going to be self-preservation mode. And you're going to be more focused on surviving than you are trying to win. And I thank God, man, that he had his hand on me that night, bro. And that what was in me was real. And it was enough to break him. And the rest is history.

The rest is history. It is amazing how much energy people get from haters. I mean, I don't recommend reading negative comments or negative articles, but it's amazing how people with a certain kind of resolve, a championship resolve, will take that hater shit and you'll get up 15 minutes earlier than you're supposed to. And you'll have more intensity in your shadowboxing and you'll just push harder. You'll feel it. But I don't want to give the haters too much credit that's what's all you i don't want to give the haters too much credit like they gave you fuel though but it was it was weird though and i don't even know how to quantify i don't even know how to like explain it but like early in my career uh they got a lot more credit and you, you know, I got great mentors, man. My pastor, Napoleon Kaufman, former Raider. It's a great man of God. Just a great, great man.

He I would always call him like, man, pastor, man, they're hating on me. And he'd be like, listen, son, listen, stop giving these people all this credit, man. He said, listen, man, they got they can't do anything to you unless God allows it. Stay focused on what you got to do. So I started to get it as I evolved in my pro career and as I started to mature as a man. So I knew they were there. That element was always going to be there. But I started letting that element work for me like I wouldn't like I wouldn't just, you know, just just be enamored with it. And I wouldn't just sit there and read comments and stuff. You know, frankly, the last three or four years of my career, I didn't read a mention, not one mention on Twitter. I didn't look at comments on Instagram. Every now and again,

something would slip through, but I knew they were there. And I knew generally what was being said. I knew generally what the articles in the headline would read. So it was there, but the real driving force was the people that were writing for me fighting for me supporting me believing in me that element was there and i was going to address that element through my performance but they didn't i don't want to give them too much credit though they don't deserve that much you know they don't deserve that much credit but they're good they're good to have there's something there but you were very wise in the way you manage their influence by not reading those comments.

Not all the time, but I got the revelation, like I said, at a certain point. Man, I'm done with this, bro. I'm not doing this. I only started to read comments again. Frankly, I didn't watch boxing for the past three or four years of my career. Really? And I'm a boxing buff. Why didn't you watch?

I was burnt out. The opinions, the biased the Double standards good stuff too, but I would just burn and it was so weird for me because I'm the guy that would break his Neck to go watch Tuesday night. Gillette fights as a kid. Yeah, I gotta get back dude. You don't even know who's fighting It doesn't matter. It's two guys in the ring. I'm watching it Friday night fights for many years I was over it going through what i went through with the lawsuit going through what i went through with the injuries the highs and lows and everything in between i was just burnt out can you refresh my memory the

lawsuit was a promotion lawsuit yeah yeah yeah it was it was uh you know i can't get too much into it but it was just something that man i i just i fought for myself and you know but it was it was a long two-year journey on my best day i'm like you're doing the right thing son stay stay stay in the race keep fighting it may not look it may not be going your way now but just staying like you're not fighting money's not coming in but just stay the course you're doing the right thing on my worst day i'm like bro you're blowing it you're getting rushed on you you know people are writing our war would rather fight in the courtroom than fighting the ring and i'm like that's not it i'm just trying to i'm trying to fight for what i believe is true so it but but

i grew up a lot but coming out of that i was like man i'm done with all that stuff man like i don't know how many years i got left in this sport but i'm not focused on y'all i gotta focus on me and it wasn't until i retired and got full time into broadcasting and commentating that I started to watch again. I started to understand who was out there on the landscape and researching. But I didn't watch it for many years. That's crazy. Yeah, I was done with it. But it makes sense.

I mean, you probably in your early days were so hungry for boxing because you had so much desire that you wanted to watch it all the time. Excuse me. But the amount of effort required to become a champion but you don't see the behind the scenes though then you grow up and you see the business side and you see the dark side it's like it's different the darkness the dark side yeah there's a lot of that man in boxing i mean it's historical the don king mike tyson stories the i mean there's so many stories like the man don king muhammad ali there's so many stories like that it's it's so sad it's it's an awful side of the business it is now when what does was this before after the super six tournament which one that all this was going on with the lawsuits it was after shortly

after so the super six tournament though was where people knew you were an olympic gold medalist but that was where like coming into that who was the favorite uh the favorite was it's kind of like threefold but it was kessler um arthur abraham was dominant at 160 he had just moved up to 68 so everybody felt like it was a foregone conclusion that he was going to dominate at the heavier weight class carl frotch was the wbc champion but he was still kind of like relatively unknown like you know he had potential had a belt but you know he was probably you know i don't know the third favorite and then you had uh andre durell obviously you had myself and you had Jermaine Taylor and the Americans,

or at least this is how I viewed it. We were just like, we were just there to make it interesting. It wasn't about us. It was the, it was the Europeans party. And it's funny because I almost didn't fight in a tournament. I was in Mexico on vacation and I'd been hearing about the super six, but, me and my manager, he was like, I don't think these things will come together. These guys are fighting. Hey, man, go enjoy your vacation. So I did that. I flew into San Diego. We drove to Mexico. And I ended up getting like a double ear infection. I was messed up. From the ocean? Probably just something like that. Yeah, it just kind of came upon me. I i don't know i don't exactly know the origin of it so i'm like i had a little bit

of internet access i'm looking at stuff i'm like these guys like wait they're doing a kickoff press conference in new york so i called james i'm like jay what's up he was like hey man you need to get there like asap bro this thing's going down like whoa i'm like you told me it wasn't gonna happen he's like i didn't think it was so but he was also like you know what though if you don't want to go it's all good we'll figure it out so I'm like man I don't want to go I'm with my family I call Verge I give him the whole spiel it's probably like two three times in my life he's had this kind of tone he's like listen son you need to get on a plane. You're not going to make the New York press conference. The next stop is Germany. Arthur Abraham's home country. Get there. I'm like, man, I'm in, you know, I'm with my family. Give him the whole speech. They get there.

So we pack up, we drive two or three hours to San Diego, get on a flight, drive my family back to the Bay area. Boom, drop them off, get on a flight, a red eye that night, double ear infection, wake up in Germany. And that was my, that their second stop but that was my first stop and that's when i really got the revelation that man this is a joke like like this they think that me derail and and taylor like we're just gonna like that's when i took exception and i was when i really kind of like realized the dude like this is either this is gonna be a sink or swim moment for you either you're gonna get like i could have got ruined in the super six like it could have went a whole nother way or what i knew was in me was going to be you know displayed and shown to the world and so when you

beat kessler and you won your first title that had to be a beautiful moment unreal unreal unreal and it was in my hometown like the same arena oracle arena where the warriors have played for many many years and i'm kind of salty they're leaving man they're going to chase arena i'm not happy man i'm not happy um i used to pass by that arena on uh highway 880 going to king's gym and i used to look and it'd be it'd be on the right side and i'd be like man first i wonder if i'm gonna fight there one day he said baby fight there you're gonna headline I was like really I'm talking 12 13 years old wow like man I'm a headline and Kessler's arrogance allowed that fight to take place in my hometown he had more knockouts than I had victories like this is dude

I'm not even gonna beat him I'll beat him in his hometown uh so we fought there uh i think it was november 19th and uh just unreal man and like for a gold medalist like like people don't understand the pressure you have coming into the game like like everything you do well you're expected to do well but if there's one slip up now it's like you know everybody comes out the wheel worksrow. I told you it wasn't going to be that. So to get the monkey off my back to win my first title was just that pressure. That release of pressure was just immense. I remember when I was a kid when the Olympic team had so many guys that went on to win world champions like Purnell Whitaker. Was it the 76 Olympic team? 84.

84. Purnell Whitaker, Mark Breland. There was so many guys from that area that was uh meldrick taylor yeah you know uh who else who else uh holyfield holyfield was there but i think holyfield got disqualified he got a silver right something happened when you you think about the amount of pressure that, I mean, so many people were looking at those guys. And I remember when Breland lost to Marlon Starling. We got knocked out by Marlon Starling. I remember so many people were happy.

They were happy that he lost. Like, ah, another Olympic gold medalist. You know, he couldn't take it. I'm like, God, first of all, goddamn, Marlon Starling was a fucking killer. He was a killer and super slick. You know, just a real seasoned knockout artist and an excellent boxer you know i mean it wasn't it's that's just a great boxer beat another great boxer but there was a weird feeling to it like people were happy that breland lost i

was like wow this is that's crazy pressure it's different yeah it's different um and people talk about pressure all the time. How'd you deal with this? How'd you do that? Well, I credit my faith in God and just, you know, feeling like there was a purpose for me to be in the game as the foundational reason. But the practical reason was I've been dealing with pressure since I've been in my, you know, since I've been a baby. Like having two parents who were drug addicted at a young age and one is a functional addict and my dad who raised me as a single parent and then my mother was a full-blown addict for many many years she's clean now she's doing good like that's pressure started there then like coming up throughout the ranks and like dealing with haters and all this stuff in the gym in your private gym or not private gym but the gym that you train at.

And you got some people that are with you. Man, this kid's going to be the next. And you got some people over there in the corner mumbling, this kid ain't going to be nothing. He's all right. Like, you learn to deal with that stuff then. Then go into the national tournaments. You're dealing with people from all over the U.S.

Then you go into the world tournaments. Like, that's pressure. Then you get to a point. So when I fought a guy like Sergey Kovalev, I'd already seen him before. I fought Kovalev 15, 20 times in my career. I read the big, you know, menacing guy who everybody's afraid of. Like I've fought him before. I fought him in the Olympics for three Russians in the Olympics. So it wasn't that I'm guaranteed to win, but I had seen that before. Even the critics and all the people like we I've been dealing with this stuff my whole life.

And and it wasn't anything new. Does does it feel good? Absolutely not. I mean, your hope is that everybody supports you. But, you know, as successful as this podcast is, you got your boo birds. You have your critics, boo birds. I never heard him talk like that. Boo birds. You got people that as soon as you slip up. Boo birds. I never heard him talk like that. Boo birds. Boo birds. You got people that as soon as you slip up, oh, I knew he was going to. It's part of the game, man. Yeah.

That must have enhanced your relationship with Virgil. It must have because he believed in you. Yeah, of course. When you fought for the world title in that very arena where he said you were going to be headlining when you were like 12, 13 years old. What the fuck was that like? That must have been amazing. It's surreal, man. You're just trying to manage your emotions. I remember the night before the fight, I had my guy Jack, Edward Jackson, man,

who's a great coach, great assistant, great strength and conditioning coach, boxing coach from Houston, Texas. He'd been with me from day one. I said, man, I got to get out of the room, man. We drove to Trader Joe's just to get some cliff bars. I just, man, I got to get out of the room, man. Like we drove to Trader Joe's just to get some some some cliff bars. I just needed to clear my head. And I remember like talking to my uncle Bob, who, you know, is my dad's best friend, who, you know, he wasn't my blood uncle, but he's basically like an uncle to me. Huge boxing fan. I remember just like

talking to him and I'm saying, baby, tomorrow's your day. I'm gonna be I'm gonna be there front row, baby. Tomorrow's your day. Your dad, your dad always dreamed about this moment. And like just tears running down my eyes because I was just feeling the pressure. I'm like, dude, I'm getting ready to fight for a world title at home. Like the pressure, like you could cut you can cut it with a knife. But to be able to bear up under it and and to go get it done, bro. Unreal. Unreal. Could you couldn't you couldn't script it any better. But to be able to bear up under it and to go get it done, bro, unreal. Unreal.

You couldn't script it any better. Was the second fight with Kovalev your second most satisfying fight? I liked the first one better. The first fight better, really? Because you managed to survive and come back and then start out pointing. I just got it a different way. I got it a different way i got it a different way and that's crazy that you like that fight better that's interesting that says a lot about you yeah i love the moment with uh me and verge in the corner um he showed his worth i already knew what he had but he showed his worth he said baby listen ali been knocked down sugar ray's been knocked down they got up's been knocked down. They got up.

Now you get up. Like, those are moments you live for. Like, you don't want to be on the canvas. But if you happen to find yourself there, you want to know that your team has what it takes. And you want to know that you have what it takes. That was the second round, bro. I clawed back 10 rounds against that guy. The biggest night of my life.

And then having to deal with everything afterward it built me man it made me strong like stronger and that was just that that that that I won the second fight again with the first fight like I already broke him in the first fight something happened to him like right around the sixth round he was still trying to win to a degree, but I knew physically I was like, man, I got him. He's not the same. So, of course, he's going to whine about the decision because it didn't go his way. But I beat him in the first fight. We only saw what the second fight was a window dressing.

We just picked up where we left off. But everything that transpired in the second fight really started in the first fight the second fight it's it was stunning to me when it seemed like he just quit because it didn't seem like it did i mean it almost seemed like a premature stoppage but then you realize that he didn't want to fight any longer yeah tony wiggs did a great job he saved he did i mean you know in in hindsight you know you wish you would have landed the one shot and he went, you know, he got knocked out and it was clear. But listen, man, all the excuses and stuff, like I was thinking about this the other day. Every big win that I've had, there was an excuse attached to it. So you go back to Kessler.

Oh, he headbutted me. He's fighting dirty. No, I'm fighting in a style that you don't know how to deal with. If you look at Carl Froch. Oh, it was boring. Why didn't you make it more interesting? You look at Chad Dawson. Oh, he was weight-drained.

Chad Dawson called me out. I was at home minding my own business, and he said, I want to fight Andre Ward. I'll come down to his weight, and I'll fight him in Oakland. If you look at Kessler, I mean, you look at Kovalev. First fight, I got robbed second fight they cheated me come on y'all every big win that Andre Ward has cannot have an asterisk next to it like some either either I'm not the guy that my record says that I am or somebody's not being honest over here you see what I'm saying but don't you think that's inherent with boxing

when there's certain people that don't ever want to accept defeat, no matter what. And when there's a situation where there's a possible reason why they lost that didn't sort of fit into the rule books. Like he hit me low or they stopped it too soon. The Kovalev fight, you know, like the second fight in particular. Like the first fight, maybe he could make an argument that he thinks he should have won a decision. But the second fight, I mean, he wasn't jumping up looking to beat that eight count, dust his gloves off, and get back at it. He was basically surrendering. He was done, man.

Those body shots were for— Just everything. People forget about the right hand that started all the trouble. Where he did the funny dance and then like the the 15 unanswered shots after that yeah um and i would probably say out of the body shots that landed maybe one straight a little low but again bro your name is the crusher like like what like if you hit me low like and i try to be as fair as i possibly can i'm coming to get that back bro like if it's if i feel like it's intentional if it's an accident you know it's all good you know it happens but if you're trying to like like like dethrone me or beat me from from

a foul like i'm coming to get that back why all of a sudden like all the people that said that that that you know you're not gonna beat kovalev you know look what he did to this guy he's gonna do the same thing to you you're too small those are the same people coming to the rescue of a guy whose nickname is a crusher and who's menacing and all the stuff i've been saying you know like like he should be able to defend himself he should be able to get me off of him a little guy that just moved up from 168 little old me was the thing about kovalev too like he killed a guy early in his career right yeah and that was something that you know that there's a feeling when a guy's done that there's a there's a fear to facing that guy and i had to face that fear i had to face that fear i'm human um so that was presented to me

but that's where the mindset comes into play that's where my faith comes into play where it's like listen man unfortunately that happened to that guy but you ain't doing that to me like that's the mindset part like if you allow that stuff to seep in take root and start to fester in your heart and your mind you'll never you'll never get get past the finish uh the starting line you you'll go out there and be like man who was that dude that was performing that night that wasn't me um he was gonna have to do something to me because because i was coming to win man and again it's not that i'm just i'm not the toughest guy in the world but like like, I just believed what I believed. I felt like I was there for a reason.

And unfortunately that happened to that young man, but I just didn't believe that was going to happen to me. And that's what I had to keep feeding myself in order to get past that and then go perform. Now, how did you make the decision? You stop him in the second fight. How did you make the decision that that's it? It was almost it for me after the first fight.

Really? Yeah. That's the closest I've've ever i've talked retirement in the past uh like internally with my wife and stuff um but after the first fight i don't know if it was uh i think it was physical like all the surgeries and rehabbing just the years how many different surgeries about three with all on the shoulder not shoulders knee yeah yeah meniscus or something yeah yeah i won acl one meniscus yeah um i think it was the physical part i think it was just the the toll of the sport and then maybe some of the reaction like like you know for a split second i'm like here we go again like like it's always something, you know. I beat the guy that you guys say I couldn't beat. Now, you know, people feel like I got robbed.

Like, that's a fight that could have went either way, you know, by a point or two. You can't have a polarizing opinion about it. You may say, man, I thought I wore it lost. I can live with that. But all the rob stuff, like, so I think it was a combination of just everything. I was like, man, I'm done, man. I'm not doing this no more. I didn't do anything

for three months after that fight. And I remember going to speak to my pastor about it because he did the same thing. He was all everything at UW. I played six years in the league and all of a sudden, boom, one day he was like, I'm done

and never looked back. So I went and sat with him and I was like, man, pastor, I don't know, man. I think i'm done he's just listening very wise man and um so i'm giving him the whole spiel i'm like man i haven't done in three months i've never done that that's got to be a sign i'm done he said you know what son he said i think uh he said i think you'll be fine if you if you retire he said but i think you

got one more left in you i remember just i thought he was gonna side with me i thought he's gonna be like yeah son that's it and i was a little disappointed honestly i was like really i was like yeah but i told you i hadn't done anything in three months he was like i know i know he said once you get going you know the fire will be rekindled wow so i took him at his word and i started to kind of get back going moving my body body. And then that happened. I started to get that fire back. And once we got the money right, I was like, I'm going to do it again. Boom. Won the fight. And I didn't know for sure, but I was kind of feeling like, OK, well, you know, I felt like that after the first one. This may be it after the second one. But then the opportunity started coming.

HBO had a three fightfight deal on the table, and basically it was going to be a gimme fight in Oakland at home, kind of a celebration, a move to Cruiserweight against Tony Bellew, probably in the U.K. Did you want to move to Cruiserweight? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was nothing else at Light Heavyweight. What about a rubber match that wasn't exciting for you?

No. Beat him twice. Did Kovalev ask for a rubber match? No. No. Really? I mean, he would probably put, if somebody asked him, you want a rematch? Yes, of course.

He didn't want it. He didn't really want it. So that was the three fight exit strategy with HBO. Give me a fight at light heavy. I was probably going to do a catch weight at home. Cruiserweight. What did you walk around at? Back then?

Yeah. About 85. So you would have had to gain weight. I would have had to tighten myself up at 85, 90 probably a little weight yeah yeah yeah

cruiserweight limit is 90 it's 200 it's 200 yeah I probably wouldn't have got to 2 though probably would have been about 190, 192

something like that so that was a 3 fight deal and the third fight was going to be Anthony Joshua don't know if it would have been made we hadn't even gotten

that far but that was our plan Jesus Christ right how much would you have gained to get up to heavyweight don't know if it would have been made we hadn't even gotten that far but that was our plan jesus christ right how much would you have gained to get up to heavyweight maybe two that's it maybe two i can't i'm never gonna be as big as you guys so why would i weigh myself down right yeah very dangerous situation you know uh but that was something we were talking about and verge mentioned it in the post-fight conference With Kovalev That guy's fucking gigantic

But we hadn't Me and Verge Hadn't talked about Like we talked about it But we didn't say We were going to Mention anything publicly Oh and then he came out

And I'm sitting there You know I'm chilling I just won He's like Yeah we want Anthony Joshua I'm like What did you say to him Chill bro

Like He's so much bigger than you Yeah It's all good though That guy's gigantic I've been fighting big guys My whole life I'm sure you have so the three fight deal was on the table and roman gonzalez saritsakai or saritsakai saritsakai soaring v side we're getting ready to fight their rematch at the home depot center i think it was september 9th september 6th that was a wednesday i was supposed to be in la to

you know announce the the new signing and get ready to call that fight that wednesday i come home and i'm kind of like i'm not boohooing but i'm in tears and i tell my wife i was like i don't want to do it anymore and even saying that sounded crazy to me she was like she was just real quiet i'm thinking like why is she not saying nothing? I was like, I don't think I'm going to do this anymore. And she said something she had never said previously. Typically, she's like, babe, look, it's not time. Come on.

You got to get up. I know you feel this way. I know you're back, but come on. I feel like you still got time in the sport. First time she ever agreed with me, she was like, I think the decision is already made, Dre. I was like, what? She said, I think the decision is already made, Dre. I was like, what? She said, I think the decision is already made.

She said, I've been looking at you throughout this whole day and some of the stuff you've been saying and I've never really seen you like this. She said, I think it's already made. I took that out, bro. Started making phone calls. Called my lawyer who's, you know, one of my good friends, Josh Dubin. I said, hey, bro, I think that may be it for me. And he had been wanting me to be, you know, was like if you feel that way bro i'm gonna support you call my manager the next morning and it took us so i went i went i went that weekend and called

the fight we held off on the announcement and my lawyer just told hbo like look he's going through some things we're good give us a couple days so i got through that weekend and he said do you still feel like that Come Monday morning I was like bro I think I'm done Long story short We ended up announcing it September 21st

It was like a two week period We were trying to keep it under wraps But I was undoing all the stuff I was letting the necessary people know Rock Nation HBO Everybody know And

The night before I announced it Man Me and my good friend Who's a director He's also directing my doc Deontontay Thompson he um we put together this video it was like a legacy video where I had my young son my middle son and my oldest son and those were like those were like you know that was me at that point in time in my career and we did this whole video that I was going to announce my retirement with and um and I actually have the doc that I'm working on right now is about this.

Like, why did the best fighter of the world at that time walk away from the sport on top? Shot that video, man, the day of my retirement, bro. And the response was just overwhelming. You know, it was overwhelming. Like, I just couldn't believe the amount of people that were reaching out. And it was like good and bad. Like, it was good because I was getting support. But it felt like somebody died. Like, I felt like died. I'm looking at these rest in peace, like not literal rest in peace.

But like the comments were like rest in peace. Like, bro, are you? I couldn't believe man. I'm like, what? Like, Ward, not you, man. Oh, my God, man. And it was just it was like just this huge reaction. And it was overwhelming. huge reaction and it was overwhelming um and in the two years that followed like i said at the beginning of this podcast harder than i thought it was going to be one of the hardest if not the hardest thing i've ever tried i had to do and still like i still have to do like it's a daily decision to be like i'm not doing it no more but one of the most rewarding man and it was a necessary evil and i hope that one day man the young guys can look up one day and say man i'm gonna do the andre award i'm done i'm out like how long do we have to do it before we feel satisfied look bro

save your money if you don't if you're not financially literate go get some help um ask questions and as soon as you feel like you're not really there, you don't want to do it no more, ride off into the sunset, bro. There's other stuff you can do. I hope to be an example in that area. Well, it's so important, I think, for there to be a guy like you because people always have this narrative, fighters always come back. They always fight like Sugar Ray Leonard did when he fought later in his career.

When he fought, you know, he fought Don Donny Lalonde but then he went and fought yeah the Terry Norris fight was hard to watch man and then you know Hector Camacho stopped yeah yeah yeah I mean it was like Camacho couldn't punch either it was it was when his calf was all fucked up back then and Billy Blanks was training him you remember that yeah I mean it's just sad when you see these guys just still try to do it over and over and over again until the same story keeps repeating itself. When a guy like you, it was only Hagler before you. Hagler was the only guy. Lennox Lewis, too.

Oh, that's true. Lennox Lewis, too. But it's a handful. Yeah, it's a handful. Yeah, Lennox Lewis is a brilliant guy, too. He plays chaffs. He's articulate he's it's like he's an interesting intelligent guy that just said we're good we did everything we need to do we did everything we need to do having those guys like you is it's so

important for young fighters because they get told by the by the assholes you know hey you know all fighters gonna wind up with brain damage all All fighters are going to wind up going out on their back. They're all going to wind up coming back after their prime. It's so important for guys like you to say, no, you can manage it correctly. These are shark-infested waters. But if you

stay on the rocks and you do your due diligence and you put in the work and your discipline and you fight correctly, I agree with you so wholeheartedly about appreciation of the masters of a real masterful boxer like when i always talk to people about floyd may whether they talk all this shit he does this he does that he's got all this money i go save all that forget about his talking watch how that guy fights he fucking barely gets hit he's been rocked maybe twice in his whole career my donna and um shane and sugar shane mosley those are the only two the only two guys who cracked him and he wound up

winning both those fights he's a master masterful boxer and that's what everybody should emulate this i mean i love the arturo gaudi mickey ward fights as much as anybody did. But if that was my son, I'd be freaking the fuck out. I'd be like, don't fight like that. It's not worth it. I don't give a fuck how many of these drunken assholes cheer you on. They're not going to be with you when you wake up in the morning. Your head is pounding in your head when you have a hard time looking at light. You have to have all the shades closed.

When just a little crack of light coming in through the shade is hurting you. It's giving you a headache. They're not going to be there with you when you're old. Virgis always put it like this, and this has shut a lot of people down. He said, man, let me ask you a question. He'd do this to reporters and stuff. Like if there was an open workout, he knew it was a particular reporter in there that was, you know, rah, rah, and, you know, talking down against, you know, guys who could box.

He said, let me ask you a question. You got kids? Yeah. You got kids? Yeah. You got a son? Absolutely. If you wanted your son to box, and it was two guys at the gym, and one coach said, hey, man, I'm going to teach your son how to hit and not get hit. Period.

I know this art. I've mastered it, and I'm going to help him master it. And then you got this guy over here that said, look, man, he may have to take two to give one. But look, he's going to be tough. He's going to be durable. And who would you send your kid with? And they go, ah, the first guy. Well, there you have it.

Well, I think there's a false narrative, too. Here's the false narrative is that the guy who takes two to give one is tougher. I think that's nonsense. I think the guy who hits and doesn't get hit can be just as tough if not tougher again but it's harder it's not talked about right it's a false narrative to your point yes like my lazy days in the gym would be man i'm just gonna fight today bro i'm gonna stand toe-to-toe and just get it in i'm tired physically i'm not trying to you know execute this game plan today i'm just gonna try to keep a tight defense and just go it in i'm tired physically i'm not trying to you know execute this game plan

today i'm just gonna try to keep a tight defense and just go to war those are my those are my like my lazy days the when you gotta like like embody a game plan and then round after round even when things aren't going your way try to stick to that game plan bro that's hard yeah that that's that's draining right um and this is something again that i've never said because i don't i'm not i don't like talking about myself man i try to stay out the way but bro i was one of the toughest fighters in the sport of boxing for the past 10 years when i was active period no question about it it's just not talked about. The chin's not talked about, you know, the toughness part, because it's not really associated with the guy who can, you know, do it a certain way. But if you really think about my big fights and the big guys that could punch like I didn't beat them by moving away.

I beat them by being in their wheelhouse. Period. And even Floyd, like people don't realize like we will highlight like visible times that we saw floyd get hit man you're getting buzzed and all kind of stuff is going on people don't even know right but we're chameleons as fighters we have to be because if we show weakness now it's water it's water and shark infested water i mean it's blood and shark infested water sure even in the conor mcgregor fight he got clipped with a big left uppercut man you get bud bing and you just tighten up and people think oh that wasn't a hard shot yes it was you just didn't know it no floyd floyd has had to deal with that throughout the course of his career many times that we didn't know i like how floyd changed his style too he has when with the pretty boy pretty boy floyd style early in his career i mean he was much

more knockout oriented he was much more knockout oriented he was much more aggressive but he would get hit more than yeah and he also broke his hand a bunch of times you know and he just developed a smarter style but people don't remember those knockouts like when he did you see that fight with that japanese dude i had so many fucking arguments about that fight where they were trying to say that that was a fixed fight i'm like god damn it listen to me that dude is 126 pounds he had no fucking business being in there with floyd mayweather ever ever forget about conor mcgregor conor mcgregor is a big man that's a tiny dude that dude is 126 pound fighter he's fighting floyd mayweather who's arguably the

best boxer of all time and floyd doesn't even have to fucking train for that guy he came in there with a little bit of a belly and he's just moving his arms around like this smiling at him hey man you fucked you had never seen floyd look like that before man but he won easy and people were saying oh look how the guy went down that's how it happens when a big man who's a real natural welterweight hits a 126 pound fighter that's what the fuck happened and floyd was trying to hurt him too yeah he was trying to hurt him, too. Yeah, he was trying to hurt him. It's almost like Floyd, I don't know what the agreement was, but it was almost like, yeah, exhibition, wink, wink.

Yeah. And Floyd's a competitor. Yeah. Like, unapologetically. He's coming to win every time. You could tell Floyd was opening up. Floyd was trying to hurt him. Do you think he's going to go at it again?

Because his talk of other fighters, his talk of, I mean, he goes through money like water, and he's got a fuckload of it, but goddamn, he loves to spend it. And he's had some financial troubles in the past because of his flashy lifestyle. But his skill and his overall boxing ability and his ability to talk shit and generate interest have pulled him out of these problems. I hope not. 50, you know, 50 you know 50 times 50 fights pretty amazing training camps that's enough pretty amazing if he does if he does stop pretty amazing

that's enough yeah he's he's retired on what three different occasions came back benefited from it I think he's good selfishly I would love to see it but but realistically I think I think he's good the only thing I could think would maybe talk him out of it if is if there was something that could generate a massive amount of money like a pacquiao fight like a pacquiao fight you know pacquiao still i mean after he beat keith thurman like what's a massive amount of money i don't know because he's had a massive amount i know umpteen times i would like to ask him like legitimately hey man how much you got left i think he would do it for a b there was a

b behind it or like like a strong like 750 million with upside like floyd ain't turning down a b is that possible can he get a billion dollars why not right if anybody could do it right now it's floyd i mean who would he fight i feel like floyd would have to fight a young guy like he would have to be a like like he's he's he's like he's done the conor mcgregor thing people like oh you got us like he'd have to fight a real threat like dude because people people will pay that kind of money to see that that ogo so like who like terrence it would have to be a i don't know but again i don't know commercially if it's big enough i'm not sure yeah i don't know if aero spent like but it would have to be one of those kind of guys arrow you know terrence before

people would say i don't care pay-per-view is 200 i don't care like i don't think there's any star on that level right now right i don't think there's any star on the level of where floyd was when he was younger in his prime yeah but there's no one who generates that amount of eyes a canelo fight could do something like that it could but canelo's talking about fighting kovalev right but he would he would he would stop talking about fighting kovalev start running marathons if floyd was coming back it would be the kovalev who but But Floyd would make him drop down like 145 pounds or something crazy. As he should. Listen, man.

What did he make him fight at the first time? 152 or something like that? He came with some arbitrary number. He made him come down a little bit. It was below junior middleweight. I think it was like 52. Oscar De La Hoya did it to Floyd when they fought? Yeah.

Because he was the A-side. Yeah. He picked the gloves. Right. He picked the size of the ring. He picked everything you got to you're in a driver's seat yes so don't get mad because floyd is doing it right now right canelo great fighter he's the a-side the majority of the time unless you're fighting me so look right

if you want this money this is what we're gonna do isn't it right now the a-plus and the a-side though it seems like canelo so so huge, particularly the Mexican community. You mean if they were to fight again? Yes. If they fought right now, Floyd's still the A plus, but Canelo's kind of the A, or at least the A minus.

Yeah, maybe the A minus. But he'll always be, Floyd will always be the bigger star. Yes. Just based on what he's amassed in his career and just who he is. But when you look at what Canelo does, like when he knocked out Amir Khan,

he's that, you know, that motherfucker could put some heat on some punches. He can punch, yeah. He can punch. He can punch. He can box, too. Do you think he can? That's one thing he really did learn from fighting Floyd, you know, how to not be there.

You know, and you saw that in the subsequent fights. Like, he learned from that fight. Like, that was a learning lesson. And you could see in that fight him, like like realizing as the fight was going on like oh fuck i'm on another level of this video game and i don't know how to beat this boss like floyd was just shutting him down and just doing beautiful things levels to the game for people who appreciate boxing that's one of the best fights to watch because you got this murderous young upstart who's a devastating puncher who's a big strong kid who's just tough as fuck he just

embraces that mexican style of fighting pressure a lot of power moving forward that's exciting to me man like people i don't like i get it but like on the other hand i don't get it like how do you not see what's happening right now you have a young dude who can really punch like we just said one punch can change it all floyd's a little bit older he's not old but he's older yeah and he found a way to neutralize this young bull this young lion and then expose him like he took away his strength and then you know exposed his weakness like time like in a 12 round fashion like not one round not five not but 12 rounds and left and left canelo without answers like that type of stuff that's the way I was brought up. Like, man, take away his greatest strength and expose his weakness, bro.

Like, that to me, I can watch 20 rounds like that. I think that's because you are, you're not just a great fighter, but you're also, you're a deep fan of the sport. But it wasn't always like that. But when you were a kid, weren't you a big fan of it? Yeah, of course. So you understand, like, when you're seeing a masterful performance, you understand that the general public really doesn't understand what's happening. They don't see it.

And that's our job as analysts and writers to educate the people. You're going to have your diehards. They're going to pick and choose what they like. And generally speaking, the diehard is going to, you know, appreciate both styles and maybe have a favorite style. But they're going to tune in for all of them. It's the fighters over the casual. Right. And we in boxing, we kill our so we shoot ourselves in the foot because a there's so much infighting. And then you have people literally like when a guy's fighting a master's fight. Oh it's not worth your it's not worth watching i'll give you an example i'll bring it to the mma world i'm a casual mma fan like gilbert melendez he we've worked out with him nick and nate um and a couple other guys like so i'll watch if one of those guys are final you

know some of those guys don't fight anymore but like or cormier or maybe a john jones like i'll watch those types of guys i've never heard maybe you can enlighten me i've never heard an announcer like rip a guy like even if a guy has no ground game he's like look if so-and-so gets him on the ground he's in trouble but if you stand up with this guy you're giving me a reason to stay engaged we in boxing a lot of times um and we have in past times i think we've gotten a little bit better as of late oh this is terrible listen man if i'm a casual fan why am i gonna stick around the fight is over the casual not the hardcore fan so we make you know a guy who can hit and not get hit like it's some you know some super like this is some special thing that, you know, you know,

you got to be really, really smart to understand. It's really not. It's the fundamentals of the game. Like when you go into a gym for the first time, hey, man, use your jab. Hey, man, you hit this guy, take a half step back so he can't return fire. It's the fundamentals of the game at the highest level. It's not that deep. It's really not.

It's being presented to people like it's deep. It's not that deep. It's really not. It's being presented to people like it's deep. It's hit and not get hit. And even in the whole hit and not get hit concept, you're going to get hit. You're going to get hit. You can't avoid contact all the time. And then you got to be able to see, okay, this dude, he really doesn't like to get hit, but man, he just got hit with that good shot. Man, he came back. Man, he responded. Wow, man, that dude does have heart. If you're really looking at it, you're going to see a fight. You're going to see boxing. All in one fight, even against a guy who's a master.

You're going to see the whole gamut. Well, in sports commentary, there's a way that sports people write, and there's a way that sports people do commentary where it's very negative, and they like to call people they like to call people bums right they they like there's an appeal to a certain kind of fan and it's very profitable to be very negative and to to to talk about a certain way i made a very conscious decision when i started doing commentary to celebrate these fighters and to try to honor their hard work and what they're doing and to let people know how spectacular it is to me someone who loves the sport yep and i i stay away

from negative as much as possible unless it's absolutely negative to talk about to show like maybe it's someone would have to make some egregious error for me to say, don't ever do this. When I talk about these guys, I want people to feel how I feel when I watch. If I watch Demetrius Mighty Mouse Johnson, who's one of my favorite of all time. And one of the things about Demetrius, to me, that's so spectacular, was that he was able to fight these amazing fighters and make them look like they had no business being in there with him his movement his arsenal his technique he could do anything he could take you down he could submit you he could kick you he could punch you he moved his footwork his movement was masterful but he had a hard time finding an audience i did my best

i did my best to let people know like you are watching a special person you're watching a magician in there i mean he's he's on the highest level i've ever seen in all my years of watching combat sports that's as high as it ever gets he's just 125 pounds people just couldn't get excited about it but you you did your part you know you you did your part um and listen there's times you gotta call fighters out for stuff. I'm not opposed. I'm not saying that you always have to be in alignment with a fighter. If it's justified to call him out.

If he put on a bad performance, look, bro, he didn't perform the way he's supposed to. Timothy Bradley did that recently, and I think it was very justified. Which one? There was a Russian heavyweight, and he was on an undercard, and he was fighting this other dude, and the dude kind of laid down. And Timothy Bradley was like, listen, let's be honest. Yeah, call him out. Yeah.

He felt like he wanted a way out. He wasn't really here to fight. He was here to pad this guy's record. I'm like, man, you know, that's exactly true. Yeah, you got to remain credible too. Yes. You know, you got to remain credible. That's one of the things that's important about you.

Like you are very credible. But also very positive and fair you're fair try to be praise i try to be man i like i think also what's what's hurt like uh and i think we do a great job uh at espn with my crew you know well you guys have replaced the best which used to be hbo when hbo went away man i was like i can't believe they're getting out of the boxing game yeah i couldn't believe i'm still shocked i can't there was what what 40 years or something i grew up crazy yeah i used to look forward to it yeah i would get it on my dvr every time like here we go who's fighting that's one thing that we try to stress you know our lead producer mike mcquade uh joe tessitore tim bradley mark creagle bernardo

asuna christina poncho like we are trying to be fair and objective but yet truthful and if you and we everybody has a reverence for the guys that are getting in there and with all of that on the table then we try to call it from that point what's happening in what's happening in past times and even a little bit still today is personal agendas personal issues like spill over into the commentary or into the article that's being written? Like if you don't like Floyd's lifestyle, I don't ascribe to Floyd's lifestyle, but that's not my business as a fighter. We're going to call this the way we see it. Yes. He is arguably one of the greatest of all time. Now, wherever you have him on that list, that's your decision. Subjective.

But people would take the lifestyle and things that was oh just you know flood no man you're letting that spill over into this and now you're messing up this broadcast right now because floyd's doing something and we're not acknowledging it and it's clear that you don't like him that's the issue keep those things separate lifestyles lifestyle you're going to talk about that and you're doing a background story or whatever okay address that but if we're talking in the ring come on man genius well it's so interesting too to see a guy like you who is a former two division world champion and olympic gold medalist who also transitions to be an excellent broadcaster because there's only been a few george foreman i love him to death but

he was odd when he was doing commentary i like he would say crazy i loved him but he would say crazy shit. He'd be like, what is he saying? I mean, he spoke his mind. I think that's why people loved him, though. Oh, yeah. Big Jordan. He was so folksy. He was such a, you know, I mean, and you knew.

I mean, he's obviously a fantastic heavyweight and the oldest guy ever to win the heavyweight title. Roy was great as a commentator as well. You know, but where the fuck is Jim Lampley I'm not sure what Jim's doing right now You know I'm surprised he's not out there too I actually owe Jim a call I don't know

I don't understand it He was so good He is to me The gold standard of play by play Jim can do whatever he wants to do in life I did hear that he was teaching somewhere You know that's one thing he's doing I'm sure Jim

Teaching Teaching yeah at a college somewhere Really Yeah Wow what's he teaching Broadcasting whatever he wants to do in life. So smooth. I did hear that he was teaching somewhere. You know, that's one thing he's doing. I'm sure Jim. Teaching? Teaching, yeah, at a college somewhere. Really? Yeah. Wow, what's he teaching? Broadcasting or something? I'm not sure. I'm sure.

Wow, how interesting. Jim can do whatever he wants to do, man. That dude's intelligent. He's smart. He's paid his dues. I think he's going to have his pick. I'm not sure why we haven't seen him out there in the forefront, but I'm sure he's doing something.

Yeah, I miss him. Yeah, me too, man. Like, that was one of my mentors. Like, I started off with Al Bernstein at Showtime. That was one of my first mentors. Then, obviously, Lampley, Kellerman. Yeah, where's Kellerman? Because Kellerman's doing other things for ESPN,

but he's not calling fights. He works with us. Does he, but he's... He doesn't do every fight. He'll do specific fights. He'll be at the desk. So he's not doing ringside. Right, but what is that?

Why isn't he doing ringside? I'm not sure, man. He's got a lot going on. What the fuck? sure man he's got a lot going on what the fuck yeah he's got a lot going on but we have a we have a great crew man like we like joe tesla tory man come on legend in the game yes legend in the game and you and tim together are fantastic i appreciate that you know it's amazing man and we got our guy mark creagle you know doing doing the you know personal stories and digging in guys background like probably the best storyteller that i know that's out right now well it's so interesting this espn plus thing and the zone and these streaming services that have come along that have sort of changed everything i mean i don't worry about taping anything anymore i know i'm gonna go home i'm either

gonna watch like i watch them on my phone if i'm out like i was at dinner with my wife and i was sneaking fights in the bathroom. I'm like, I got to take a leak. I got to see what the fuck is going on. I'm watching fights while I'm peeing. It's like you can get it anywhere as long as you have internet service now. I mean, that's so fantastic. I think that's where we're headed, like exclusively.

Yeah, I think so too. I mean, the UFC thinks so as well. They made this this deal with espn and a lot of people freaked out but for me it's fucking great i like i mean it's great you know my daughter had this uh event that she was going to and uh you know as soon as it was over i ran upstairs and i pull out the phone and i'm watching fights i mean it's just crazy it's crazyaneously. You don't have to go home. You get them right there. It's just a whole new world, this world of I want it right now. It's funny, though, because I hear people that have the old narrative, listen, the reports of boxing's demise have been greatly exaggerated. I've been hearing this stuff for so long.

It's just like for casual fans, it's just something cool to say. No. Why isn't boxing what it used to be listen the errors are their errors but in terms of like available content available fights like i think we're at an all-time high right yes i think so too there are other people doing what they're doing god bless them but what we're doing at espn man i think it's unmatched yeah i think espn is fantastic right now and i appreciate the zone as well i mean boxing is in an amazing place right now. There's so many elite fighters and there's a lot of hype on the sport right now. There's people that

are very excited about it. People that are casual fans. Look, the Tyson Fury, Deontay Wilder fight did more for heavyweight boxing than I think any fight in recent memory. When Deontay knocked him down in the 12th round and Tyson Fury rose like Lazarus and you're like, holy shit.

This fight's still going on. He did. And then after that, he won the round. Like, this is insane. He looks like he's getting, it looked like his soul left his fucking body. I turned to my wife. I was like, that's a wrap. Turned back, I was like, what?

He got up within the 10 count. Like, I'm trying to figure out if it was over. And they just had no way. Dude got up and won the rest of the round dude i was watching in my bed right so i'm i'm i'm leaning back my feet are on the bed dionte hits him i rock it towards the front of the bed i'm sitting down i'm like holy shit he knocked him out in the 12th round he got up he got up and i'm sitting there oh my god oh my god my wife comes in the room she's like what the fuck are you doing i'm like he got up he got up yeah she just walks away with her hands up fury saved his career he did he put tens of millions of that that was the

the hundred million dollar get up it was the greatest get up of all time i don't know how much he got from espn it's reported 100 million some people say no but that get up was was was a very very wealthy get up and then how about the fact that he gives his entire purse away to charity man i mean who the fuck gives 10 million dollars away to charity i love to give but i ain't giving the whole no way no way after that fight keep half at least i got something for you give him a million everybody would still love you yeah Yeah, I can't do that. Not the whole thing. He's an interesting cat, man. And the will to get up. I mean, Deontay Wilder is a terrifying puncher. He's a terrifying puncher.

But it's like I said earlier, those intangibles, they're in you, not on you. Yeah. And he showed what was in him in that moment. Oh, it's 100% in him. There's not a goddamn person in the world that can count out Tyson Fury after that. I mean, that man is special. The way he rose. Yeah.

I can't wait to see the rematch. Is that going to happen? It's going to happen. There's all this talk, but. It's reportedly, not official, but reportedly February, Las Vegas. But doesn't he have to, Tyson has to get past. Yeah. What's his name?

Otto. Valine. Valine. Valine. Valine. Valine. He's got to get past Yeah What's his name Otto Valine Valine Valine Valine He's got to get past that dude That might not happen I mean he could lose to that guy

Oh weird shit happens Luis Ortiz Yes And Deontay Wilder Dude Luis Ortiz Put it on him in that first fight But But Luis Ortiz is at least 150 years old

At least Right At least At least He's got one of the Cuban birth certificates He's been like 40 for like 10 years like bro come on

you keep saying you're 40 years old you're older than that right no no he's been telling us that he's been the same age for a long time but I'm hopeful

I think both guys know what's on the table they're gonna rise man I think they're gonna get it done no guarantees boxing stuff happens but hopefully

they take care of business and we get the rematch well I hope neither fighter looks past particularly Deontay and Ortiz, because Ortiz hit him with some fucking bombs in that first fight and had him hurt, man. But he recovered. He did recover. He recovered and stopped him. What a crazy record that guy's got. He's like 39 and 0, right?

No, 39 knockouts, 40 wins, one draw. Fuck. 39 knockouts. No, just two fights. Yeah, one draw and one decision to, was it Brazil? No, no, no. Brazil he just knocked out. Saverne.

Saverne, right. And then he came back and knocked Saverne out in the rematch. But that's. Made him pay for going the distance. Like, you want to go the distance with me i got something for you not only that the way he did it like just defiant hands down winging punches that come from jupiter bro that was like my biggest fear like losing was one thing but like just getting knocked out ugly like like my biggest fear was like getting hit with a shot i didn't see or even feel and

woke up like what happened bro you got knocked out like that ever happened to you as an amateur no never thank god but that was my biggest fear like you can't control that you can be tip-top shape you can have all the mental stuff down check all the boxes and all of a sudden boom like if the shot would cove live landed a little bit left or right who knows right right that's a crazy thing about getting punched, right? Because in this day and age, bro, they're merciless. Yeah. The internet is merciless.

Oh, they're so merciless. It's crazy. When I was a kid, I was a giant fan of Donald Curry. And Donald Curry fought Milton McCrory. Milton McCrory hit him with a left hook to the body and then a left hook on the chin. And I was like, oh, no. Oh, no, Mike McCallum. I'm sorry. He knocked out Milton McCrory with a left hook to the body and then a left hook on the chin and i was like oh no oh no mike mccallum i'm sorry he knocked out milton mccoy with a left hook but mike mccallum the body snatcher hit him with a left hook to the body and then one up top and the one up top starched him and he went flat on his back i was like no and i remember i couldn't take it i put

my shoes on i went running i couldn't take it and i decided at that point as i was running down the street i was like i am never going to get emotionally attached to a fighter i'm never going to like put all my eggs in one basket it's too hard because i lost two yeah it wasn't just i saw mike who i'm a fan of i'm a fan of mike mccall he was an amazing fighter it wasn't just that it was just that it was like it hurt me that's how i felt when roy lost for the first time i was in new jersey and it was like a us i was still's how I felt when Roy lost for the first time. I was in New Jersey, and it was like a U.S. I was still an amateur. It was a U.S.A. versus Ireland duel, and I wasn't fighting in it,

but I was just out there supporting the team. And we couldn't get the fight, and then all of a sudden, people started blowing me up because they knew Roy was my dude. You heard what happened? What you mean? Roy got knocked out. I ain't getting knocked out, mister. So I'm like trying to look.

Roy got knocked out. I ain't getting knocked out, mister. So I'm like trying to look. I'm, Roy got knocked out. Bro, I was, I was, I was done. Like, I just like, I just dragged, I went to my room, bro. Put the covers over my head and went to sleep. And I woke up and I just felt like, I felt like I lost. Like, that was so painful. Like, that's my guy. That's Roy Jones.

He's Superman. He don't get knocked out. He got knocked out. He was in a Nas song. The new Mike Tyson's Roy Jones I mean that was When he was in his prime People don't understand

When you would watch him The way he would just Dice guys up It was different And do it so unorthodox That leaping left hook Was crazy But he had swag though

Oh my god And it wasn't just The average like Oh I'm talking tough I believe in myself He danced to the ring He came in the ring In like a tuxedo robe took was crazy swag though oh my god and it wasn't just the average like oh i'm talking tough i believe in myself he danced to the ring man he came he came in the ring in like a tuxedo robe yes hey i wanted the little roy jones ducktail he had back there bro like i wanted to do what roy did yeah man i remember i wrote him a letter and brad jacobs who's the coo of top ring boxing

right now uh or the chief cfo excuse me he was over roy's company square ring at the time and i remember brad wrote me back and was like hey thanks for writing roy roy's getting ready for vinnie pazienza next time you're in vegas he wants to meet you and uh the next time ended up being john ruiz i was the next time roy fought in vegas but like i've been rocking with roy for a long time he was he fought pazienza that was i believe the only time Roy fought in Vegas. But I've been rocking with Roy for a long time. He fought Pazienza. That was, I believe, the only time a fighter never scored a single punch in a round. Pazienza literally couldn't hit him. But the way he did it again.

He had Pazienza going. He's looking at the ref like, hey, man, stop the fight. Okay, shrug like this and boom, boom. Hit him with like three uppercuts, fight over. I'm like, who does that? Nobody. Nobody did it like Roy did it. like three uppercuts fight over i'm like who does that nobody nobody did it like roy did it not in the you know when it's hard for people to look back now because it's not happening while

it's happening yep well but when it was happening back then you would just go god he played a full game of basketball the day of a fight who does that nobody does that against eric lucas on hbo yeah it's crazy who does that nobody he did amazing man when he kept fighting what did that cement in your idea that that was never going to happen to you yeah yeah yeah and i hate that he was kind of he was one of the ones i'm not gonna say he was the one because there's a lot of that stuff going on in boxing but he like when i seen that i was like dude i can't man the glenn johnson fight was hard i was, man. The Glenn Johnson fight was hard. Yeah, I was there.

The Glenn Johnson fight was hard because he was stiff. He was stiff. And that was right after the Tarver fight. He came out with my gold medal on. I had just got back from Greece. And Roy had my medal on. He's rapping to the ring. And he's got my medal on.

And I'm sitting probably in the third row or something like that. And he got starved. And these two boys, they're grown now, but they were young and they're trying to like get over the little like like barrier to try to get in the ring. And I was remember I remember like a couple hours after that, I'm walking around downtown and I saw one of Roy's guys. And he was like, hey, Dre, come here. And Roy was in the back of a Rolls Royce. And it was just just him. And it was all dark and, Dre, come here. Roy was in the back of a Rolls Royce, and it was just him. It was all dark, and he had his head down. He opened the door, and Roy kind of looked up.

I was like, man, what's up, Roy? He was like, what's up, baby? I said, man, I love you, man. I love you. That's all I could tell him. I said, I love you. I dapped him up, gave him a hug, and that was it. I'll never forget that moment.

Never forget that. Just for whatever reason, he just wasn't able to recover, man. And I think, you know, again, the boo birds. Yeah. You got the people that, all right, now New Roy couldn't take a punch. Listen, bro, you don't get as far as he got not being able to take a punch. But when you strip off 25 pounds of muscle abruptly. Yeah. Right?

It shocks you. You can't take a punch like you used to. Your body's weak. Yeah. You're weak. And your whole neuromuscular system. It all messed up yeah excuse me no it's it's i mean we see it in fights all the time where fighters lose too much weight it's terrifying to see that but to see roy the tarver fight was hard to watch but tarver's a great fighter he caught him he clipped

him he hurt him he knocked him down they stopped the fight he couldn't get up that mean but the glenn johnson fight was much more terrifying to me because he banged his head off the ground when he went out and he went out stiff or one leg was up in the air those those ones where guys looks like he's getting electrocuted when they go out scary those are the scary ones and tarver you know taking nothing from glenn johnson he was a total total overachiever yes you know you know, lunch pill type guy, blue collar fighter. But you didn't expect him to do that. Right. And a lot of people didn't expect Tarver to do it either.

But, like, you know, Olympian, you know, like, you can see the skill set. Yeah. Big left-handed guy. So it's not, like, out of the question that something like that can happen. But nobody saw that coming with Glenn Johnson. No. Do you think that he just hadn't recovered really truly from the Tarver knockout? I think my gut, I think it was that, A.

And then, B, I don't think he took Glenn serious. I think he looked at it like, you know, it was cool. I'm going to get back with this guy and I'm going to get back to the top. I just don't think he took him serious. And Glenn, that was his Super Bowl. Yeah. He was a road warrior. That's his nickname.

Yeah. So he had to get it the hard way. So I got Roy Jones coming off a knockout to Tarver. Let's go. He came in tiptoe shape. And I just wish Roy would have took it serious. Yeah. That made Glenn Johnson's career. Now, literally, literally. No. Tarver went on to fight. I mean, all the way up to heavyweight. Right. I mean, I think he was fighting fairly recently, wasn't he? He's got a fight coming up. Him and his son are going to fight in the same car, Tarver Jr., I think, in Florida. I don't know the details, but yeah. But he hasn't fought in a couple of years. I think he's been trying to get a fight. You know, you'll see Tarver post stuff like, yo, I'm ready. And I don't know why he hasn't been able to get a chance.

I don't know. But once I got over the Roy stuff, and I'll never fully get over it but like i've forgiven tarver for it you know what i said like it took a minute but like i i got i got an immense amount of respect for tarver respect him he had to get it the hard way too like he's a guy that didn't really get a lot of respect and love but did did so much for the sport and in the sport so i got a soft spot for tarver because i know again he didn't get his just do but like he pressed his way man he beat a lot of good guys i don't think he got his just due, but he pressed his way, man. He beat a lot of good guys. I don't think he got his just due after he knocked Roy out.

I feel like there was a lot of people that were second-guessing it. They were saying, well, it's just evidence of Roy's demise. I'm like, wait a minute. Tarver said, at the fucking touch of gloves, got any excuses tonight, Roy? And then knocks him out. I mean, if that doesn't get people's respect, I mean, he did what he was supposed to do. Even more than that, like to have the guts to chase Roy down. He literally chased him down. Like when Roy fought Clinton Woods in Portland,

Tarver was at that press conference. And every fight leading up to the Ruiz fight, Tarver was at that press conference. He'd have his phone up with his manager on the phone so they could hear what Roy's saying. Like that takes a lot of guts, bro, to chase the best fighter in the world that seems invincible and say look give me a shot like because if you lose that's it for you bro yeah you know he did it believed in himself the first fight was close and the second fight he said what he said in the beginning like what kind of

guts does that take to be able to like for the whole world and you got any excuses tonight and even before the knockout buddy Buddy McGirt says something about respect. He said, man, you show him too much respect, baby. He said, don't use that word in this corner. He was locked in. Wow. He was locked in and then went out and knocked Roy out. So, yeah, it had something to do with that.

But that's not Tarver's fault. Don't use that word in this corner. Never heard nothing like that before. Wow. Wow. When you look at the game right now, who do you think, who's exciting to you? Obviously, there's Terrence Crawford and Lomachenko, but is there anybody that really stands out for you? My little brother, Shakur Stevenson. Co-manage him, along with James Prince and Josh Dubin.

Silver medalist. He's getting ready to fight his first title fight coming up at Featherweight. He stays focused, which I believe he will. He's going to be on top for a long time. Teofimo Lopez, he's a young up-and-coming guy. He's getting ready to fight, reportedly, Richard Comey sometime in December, possibly. He's a young guy. Obviously, Terrence, Errol Spence.

They have to fight, right? It's tough, man. He's a young guy. Obviously, Terrence, Errol Spence. They have to fight, right? It's tough, man. It is tough. But for a fan? Listen, I want to see it. But if you're on his side, I see what they're doing. And honestly. What are they doing?

You can't even be mad at it. Well, Al Heyman and those guys over there, they got all the welterweights. even be mad at it well al hayman and those guys over there they got all the welterweights so if you don't if you're not you know if you don't really like the other side or if you feel some type of way about espn and top rank and you know that terrence is wanting this fight why not make him wait a year or two and let your guy errol spence try to clean out the whole welterweight division now he has sean porter coming up and that's not going to be an easy fight for either guy, and I respect it and got a lot of love for both, but they're trying to squeeze him out. So they're looking at us like, yeah, I hear you.

You want that fight, but we got bigger plans. I'm going to let my guy, you know, amass, you know, a bigger following. He's got a big following in Dallas, in Jerry's world. Jerry Jones is behind, you know, Errol Spence. So that's what they're doing right now. And as a fan, I don't like it. But as a businessman, I get it. I understand what they're doing. But from your like what you're saying, you know, to your point. My only thing with that, and I've told both guys this, like you can't say that you're the best and you may feel like you're the best.

You may tell yourself you're the best, but you really don't know if you're the best until you fight the best. And that's my only thing with boxing as it stands today, like. Social media, man. Social media tells a lot of lies like it's some young guys coming up. I'm not gonna name any names But it's some young guys coming up who who have a lot of potential Could possibly be the guy But they're not fighting anybody But yet they'll go to social Yeah, i'm i'm the man

I'm i'm next floyd's going i'm next and you get social me. Yeah. You're right, man. You next out. Come on, man It's something called box wreck or fight facts Punching in there you go to the search punch in first last name and you got to be specific with box wreck Because if you're not if you misspell a letter in the word in the name It won't pop up so get the name right first and last and then all of a sudden the record pops up First fight to whatever their last fight was and then you can all of a sudden the record pops up first fight to whatever their last fight was and then you can cross-reference the guys they beat oh this dude he beat was 20 and 0 click on click on that dude's name ah this dude ain't fought nobody so his 20 and 0 really ain't

a real 20 and 0 and you're hanging your hat on the fact that you beat that guy it's a lot of that in the game and guys aren't willing to test themselves now listen it's a place for building it's a lot of that in the game and guys aren't willing to test themselves. Now, listen, it's a place for building. It's a place for getting seasoning. I'm not I'm not a fan of rushing like I'm not. You know, that's not what I'm saying. But at a certain point in time, if you're going to say that you're the best and that you're the next Floyd and that you regardless of what weight class you may be, you got to test yourself against the best, because guess what? You don't even know how good you are. You won't know until you face another guy. Like i said this the other day when i was in the uk i said everybody wants to be a lion when there's no lions around you can be a lion in the in the company of hyenas but when you're facing another lion now we're gonna see what you're really

working with yeah everybody's a soldier when there's no wars going on. But when a war happens, now we're going to see what you made of. I would just like to see at a certain point in time, I get making money. I get the political stuff that's going on. We don't like, but at some point in time, if your pupil is going to say that they're the best, you got to face the best. So we can really see who's who. Now, if you're not about their life and you're like, dude, I'm just trying to make as much money for the least amount of risk i support i respect it and uh at least you made your intentions clear but you can't have your cake and eat it too you can't say you're the best but not fight the best you gotta face the best at some point in time i like what boxing does in that

the managers dictate who the fighters fight and that they do build their fighters up correctly and one of the things that bothers me about MMA is I think there's some really good young fighters who get ruined because they get thrown to the wolves too quickly and they wind up getting their confidence shattered. They get knocked out, maybe when they shouldn't be.

They're fighting a caliber of fighter they're not prepared for. For every one fighter like that, there's always the arguments of a guy like Jon Jones, youngest ever light heavyweight champion, youngest ufc champion fights a legend mauricio shogun who uh when he was uh 22 or 23 i think he was 23 years old opens up with a flying knee hits him in the face beats the fuck out of him and takes the title for every john jones there's a guy who's coming up that maybe could have been a world champion but didn't get

managed correctly and the UFC doesn't give you any options the UFC says hey you want to fight Kamaru Usman okay here's your fight this is it it's trade-off right so the fans get the big fights but but but you know in the wake of how many careers you know yes that's the trade-off the fans get the big fights but I don't think we necessarily see the highest caliber of fighter fight the highest caliber of fighter with the the best case scenario at all times do you know i'm saying i don't i don't think we get to see the most out of some of these guys because i think that if they were managed if there was it was a ton of different promoters around, and you weren't locked in any specific sort of an organization like the UFC has. I think you could see more managers saying,

hey, man, you're not ready for Robbie Lawler. Hey, man, you're not ready for this guy. We're going to take this fight on a regional level. We're going to build you up. We're going to get you to 15, 16-0. Then we're going to start challenging some top ten contenders and cement your place. But this way, you'll have seen all the looks. You'll have seen a great wrestler.

You'll have seen a great striker. You fought a Muay Thai champion. You fought a jiu-jitsu guy. You know how to handle all these different scenarios. And in MMA, that is part of the problem is that it's not just your hands. There's so many different scenarios that you have to deal with. It's like the J.G. Wentworth commercial. I need my money now.

That's what it is. H.R. Daniel White's like, bro, I need to get paid now. Right now you hot, you up and coming. I can't find a better matchup. Let's make it happen. The UFC will throw a guy on his UFC debut against a guy who's a world-class contender, and you'll watch him get lit up like a Christmas tree.

And I'm not a fan of that, man. I'm a fan of, again, seasoning. Make sure you're ready. But it's like in boxing, man. And not everybody. Like if you look at the light heavyweight division, it's one of the hottest and the most willing divisions for guys to face each other. Also one of the most Russian. Yeah, it is. That's crazy how Russian that division is.

They spit them out. Woo! They spit them out. Yeah. But like if you look at some of these other divisions, it's like, man, do like how many posts can you have where you're saying that you're the best, but yet you're refusing to fight the best. But there is a thing about social media, though, where these guys can self promote in a way that's never really been available. That's all good. But like, just don't expect everybody to buy it. Right. Well, as a champion, you you value that title the best. Well, as a champion, you value that title the best.

And also as a guy who's stoic. If a guy doesn't care about it, then we're not going to bother you. But when you bring that light on yourself, now we want to have you back up what you're saying. Well, that's one of the reasons why the UFC takes this strategy. They give a young fighter a fight. You think you're a beast? Okay, we're going to throw you into the beasts. You might have four or five professional fights fights and occasionally guys get through and you realize wow this guy truly is special that's the philosophy of the ufc is put together the best fights all the

time like every car they want murderers fighting murderers and i i see that from a promotional perspective it's brilliant and from a fan perspective it's brilliant but from a person who values a fighter's development i would go if i was a manager i'd go don't take that fight don't take that fight not yet not yet not yet it's like uh tyson fear getting ready to fight out of valine uh another tune-up fight right people like oh well listen valine is a good fighter we'll see how good he is but you you also have to look at Tyson Fury and everything he came off of, drugging and boozing and just on the brink of disaster, personal disaster. Give him a couple fights to get the rest off, right? So when he does face Wilder, it's an even better fight.

Yes. Why is Wilder fighting Luis Ortiz? Listen, give it some time. So it's not that we're trying to sell these fights individually, but we're selling the package deal. Did you support these guys? Yeah. You want to see the rematch?

Yeah. We're going to get a better fight if you let them go through the maturation process. Wilder's trying to stall and wait for Tyson Fury to get what he needs to get out of the way. Tyson's trying to get a little bit more rust off so it could be a better fight than it was the first time. And sometimes fans don't see that. And like you said, to your point, we as broadcasters and writers, we have to educate the people a little bit. They still may not like it, but at least we have to present the facts and say, this is why we're seeing this right now.

You do a fantastic job. I try, man. You really do. I try. I try. I'm trying to just continue to just keep keep on keeping on man but again i gotta dude i got a great team and i had a great team at hbo um again still can't believe they're not in the business and i still keep in contact with a lot of those guys and then

what we have at espn man it's just it's just different man like our lead producer like i said mike mcquay uh like we like in past times i would just show up to the to the the site location on a thursday night uh fighter meetings production meeting on friday saturday is the fight i go home sunday now like we have a production call the week of a fight on tuesday probably an hour long we're constantly texting and sending emails of information. Either Joe Tess is challenging us in this area, or Tim's sending an article, or I'm sending something, or Bernardo's sending something, or Mark Crew.

It's just on another level right now. And I think that's why people get the production that they're getting. No, you can tell. You can tell. You can tell in the actual fight itself while you guys are doing the commentary that you guys are buttoned down and locked up. I mean, it's all your T's are crossed and your I's are dotted. It's a performance business, baby. Yes, it is. Now, you're approaching that the same way you approached your fight career. I don't know any other way. I don't know any other way. doing it though i mean you're you're 20 how many months out of your last fight when you're doing

it though there's gotta be a itch sometimes there's gotta be an itch it's not gonna go away how do you just accept the fact that you have that itch is there a part of you that thinks like there's a 10 chance you might make a comeback like do you have a number in your head yes it's whatever's whatever percent it is. And then I wake up and I start hearing a pop, pop, boom, boom, my knees in my back. And I'm like, ah, bro, that's why I retired. That's why. So that discourages me quick, man. Do you still exercise?

Yeah, I got to stay fit. Do you hit the bag? I haven't done a boxing thing, but I think I'm going to do it. It's weird. Part of me has done it for my whole life so i'm kind of burnt out and then the other part of like dude i don't want to miss it like i want to do something else so i do a lot of you know spinning uh spinning class you take spin classes i take spin classes but then i also have a peloton at my house i have the peloton treadmill and the

peloton spinning bike versa climber um i love that thing yeah yeah so i do i do a lot of you know alternative stuff but i think i'm gonna get back in it because it's a great way to just keep the weight off and um after two years i think i'm ready to start hitting the back again man mike tyson says he can't he said he doesn't want to he says if he starts hitting the pads again and hitting the bag again well even at 50 he says his ego starts firing up again he starts thinking about it i I feel him. Nazeem Richardson, legendary trainer out of Philly. He put it to me like this, like last year sometime.

He said, somebody asked him, like, man, you think, like we interviewed him for my doc. And my boy, Deontay, who's the director, he said, listen, do you think Dre's ever going to come back? He said, you know what? He said, I don't think so. He said, you got to realize Andre hasn't lost in a long time. He said, as soon as he starts looking at retirement like an opponent, I think he's going to be just fine. And I never looked at it like that before. But then when I finally understood what he was saying, it's like, that's what I'm fighting against right now. So just like a regular opponent, I studied retirement, right? Like I said earlier, the highs and the lows, the good, the bad stories. Just like when I fight in a fight,

I got my supporters and I got my detractors. I got people saying, man, hey man, stay gone, bro. Way to get out on top. I miss you. But man, hey man, I'm happy you did it like that. Then I got people saying, oh, he's coming back. All fighters come back. Just like I was in a real fight. I wanted to win that battle, right? This is a battle that I want to win too. So I'm looking at retirement like an opponent right now. And my last, you know, I don't know how many years I've been doing pretty good against opponents. So I like my chances.

I like your chances too. And I think you're very important for the sport. I think you're an important, shining example of what's possible. What's possible both with your accomplishments and also what's possible with walking away with all your marbles intact, man. So thank you for everything, brother. Thank you for doing this.

I appreciate it, man. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, man. Bye, everybody. You look great, man. Appreciate it, brother. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.