The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #8 with Jimmy Smith

Episode Date: January 2, 2018

Joe Rogan sits down with Jimmy Smith to discuss recent and upcoming fights.

What are we waiting on, Jay? We good? Oh, sorry. Chatting about kombucha. I just want to say before this podcast starts, you fucked up, Bellator! You fucked up. You fucked up. I've been telling everybody that Jimmy Smith's the best out there forever

and you let him go. That's a huge error on their part. We can't talk about anything that might be, like, some future news. We can't talk about that. might be like some future news we can't talk about that but the past is up for discussion the past is up for discussion

I would be thrilled if somehow or another they were able to work it out where Jimmy Smith was at the UFC we shall see that would be what I would like to see we shall see how that goes I would like to see that that's a big fuck up yeah man it was

just a little background. A lot of people have been asking me. I haven't made any real public statements other than- I'm not a Bellator hater, is that what you want to say? Yeah, no. Cross the board. Never been a Bellator hater. Respect.

I enjoy watching it. I like the fighters. And I've always told everybody that you were the best out there. Thank you so much. You do an amazing job. I really appreciate that. Number one, yeah, it's not a Bellator thing. I mean, they were great to work with. They were great not a Belger thing. They were great to work with.

They were great about the whole breakup thing. They fucked up! Just say it! Someone say it! Yeah, so what happened was I had a deal with an option year and 2018 was my option year. And when I was in Verona, New York, doing the Verona

show, my boss sat me down and he said, we're not going to renew 2018. We want a different deal. And when they come to you and say we want a different deal. They want a downgrade. It's never, it's never. When your girlfriend comes to you and says, I want to talk, it's never. I don't give enough blowjobs.

That's never, that's never what they, they never say that. It's always. I'm going to be a better girlfriend. Exactly. Yeah. It's always bad. It's always bad. So yeah, that was it. When they were like, we want to change the deal around. I'm going to be a better girlfriend. Exactly. Yeah. It's always bad. It's always bad. So yeah, that was it.

When they were like, we want to change the deal around. I was like, okay. And they did make like an honest effort to keep me. They really tried, but they just, they didn't make an offer that was worth me coming back. And that was pretty much the deal. So it's kind of amicable, comparatively amicable. It's fascinating to me that in the world of mixed martial arts, professional mixed martial arts, there haven't been that many people that have done what you and I both do.

This is a small handful of people. You know what the weird thing is about our job, really, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart. Everybody thinks they got a guy. It's one of those jobs that everybody thinks they can do. They really go, we'll just throw a fighter and then he'll be able to do it. I've seen, I don't know how many, they want to do, you know, even locker room interviews. All right, we're going to get an ex-fighter to do that.

And it's a job. It's a skill. It's really, I mean, it's one of those things where everybody thinks they can throw somebody in and do it. And I've seen, I don't know how many try. And it's tough. You really have to work at it or have a knack for it it's it's not the kind of thing that you know it's almost like coaching i

mean how many times you heard i've heard of great great jiu-jitsu guys like he's just not a great he's naturally really good he's not that good at teaching it because to him it just works and then you try and it doesn't work you know it's one of those things where a great fighter isn't a great coach right sometimes yeah a great fighter isn't necessarily a great broadcaster. It just doesn't work that way. Yeah. Some guys are just naturally good at it, though. Like, Cormier is naturally fun.

Yeah. Like, when Rose Namajunas knocked out Ioannou and Jacek, he starts yelling, Thug Rose! Thug Rose! Like, that's just pure personality. Yeah. Like, you either have that in you or you don't. You can't fake yelling out Thug Rose after Rose Namajunas KOs her. You can't fake enthusiasm.

Right. And that's, I think... Real enthusiasm is contagious, too. If you really care about the sport, there are two things that, well, three things that we have to do. Number one is to educate people. Because a lot of people just... It's weird because most Americans didn't grow up wrestling. They didn't grow up doing Muay Thai.

They didn't grow up doing Jiu-Jitsu. So a lot of our sport is at Americans, it's weird because most Americans didn't grow up wrestling. They didn't grow up doing Muay Thai. They didn't grow up doing Jiu Jitsu. So a lot of our sport is at least partially we're introducing them to it. My mom doesn't know the difference between a knee bar and a leg lock. She knows boxing. She grew up watching boxing. So she has a background in that. So, you know, we have to explain a lot. Number two is we've got to communicate enthusiasm.

We're happy to be here. How great this thing is. You should want to be here too. That's number two. Number three is the story. Every fight has a story. And even if we don't tell the story, we at least give them the option of the story. Was Buster Douglas always a great fighter and we didn't know it?

Did he have one great night? Was Mike Tyson unprepared that night? Was Mike Tyson not as good as we thought he was? We were literally just talking about that in the last podcast about how Buster Douglas' mom died. Yeah. Before the fight. And he was just motivated like he'd never been motivated before. Got himself in really good shape and had a mission.

Right. Galvanized him like crazy. The death of his mother. Yeah. But it's our job. Right. And the play-by-play. It makes it more exciting.

To say, you know, what are we seeing here? Are we seeing, wow, is Mike just having an off night? Is Buster just having a great night? Was Buster always great? We didn't know it. There are a million ways to see the story. And mostly play-by-play does that. But we do it every now and then about, hey, this could be a new thing.

It could be an old thing. It's our job to tell that story a little bit. Well, especially when it comes to results that we think happen and why they happen in certain fights and corrections that were made, which is on the technical side of things. 100%. The technical side of things on the ground, too, which is huge. And you're one of the, I mean, how many guys are doing it, but you're a legit Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt. Thank you very much, Bridget.

I think that's important. Yeah. I think you have to understand transitions. You've got to understand danger. You've got to understand when someone's doing the right thing, and then the percentages of them getting subbed drop substantially with each move. You've got to be there, so you're seeing every step of the way going. This guy's going to bail on this any time

now. Here comes a scramble. What would I do? How do I anticipate this going down? And being able to explain to people so they follow along. And when you do it and I follow along, it makes it more enjoyable to me. And that's I mean, I think we talked about, I don't even know if we talked about this before, but I

called Dana White about you, like how many years ago? Four? I tried to get Jimmy Smith hired called Dana White about you, like how many years ago? Four? I tried to get Jimmy Smith hired by the UFC like four years ago. Four years ago. Four years ago, yeah. I was like, dude, you want better people? You want more people? I go, hire that fucking guy.

Yeah. I go, that guy, he knows what he's doing, man. He knows what he's doing. He's excited. He loves the sport. And I was telling him, you're a great guy. And we talk. He's genuine.

I go, he's a real fan. And he's fucking really good at it, man. Go get him. Really love it. I mean, I love the sport. I love it 100%. I know you do. The timing didn't work out then, and then now I'm currently unemployed.

Well, you got to call some fucking badass fights, though, man. You know, Bellator's welterweight division in particular is goddamn stacked right now. You know what's funny? There are certain fighters, and I was thinking about it as I was watching the Cyborg fight last Saturday. There are certain fighters you meet, and it's like stunning. Certain athletes. When you meet LeBron James,

you go, Jesus Christ. Like, I've seen him on TV, but when you see him in real life, you go, holy shit, that guy's big. Cyborg's one of those. Douglas Lima is one of those. Have you ever met him? Yeah.

When you meet that guy, you go, God, you make 170 pounds? He is huge. He is massive. What do you think he walks around at? 210. 210. He told me.

That's what he told you. Jesus, that's 40 pounds. When King Moe fought Rampage, King Moe was 218. He stepped on scale at 218. Right. So the night of the fight, Douglas Lima was there, and I walk up to him and I go, you've walked at 218. And he goes, yeah.

He's like, well, I don't want to eat too much. I shouldn't, but I have. He has walked around at what King Mo walked around at. Because King Mo just stepped on scale. It really doesn't cut to make 220. I mean, because the weight class was 220 when he fought Rampage. He walks around King Mo's size. They are the same size.

That is so insane. And he makes 170. He has the worst cut in terms of pounds I've ever seen. He deals with it well. But he has one of the biggest cuts I've ever seen. He's really good with it. Bellator wasn't under on any IV restrictions. I think it's by state.

We weren't as a promotion under it, I don't think. I think it's by state. Because I think the hardcore testing got instituted by USADA when Novitsky came along, and I think that's when they stopped IVs. I think states still allow them. Yeah. As far as I know, it's still state for us. And so what that, for people who don't know what we're talking about, what that means is, and this is up for debate, because Joe Silva claimed that there had been tests done, this is what he was telling me, and I believe him, that showed that the correct way of rehydrating orally actually led to better results over a 24-hour period. I've heard that.

Yeah, that the IV thing was good for short-term recovery from severe dehydration, but to actually go from like a weight-cutting weight to go back. I don't know. I didn't read any of the studies, but I do know about the inherent dangers of severe weight cuts, kidney failure. You know, there's some couple of people who died over the last year, a professional or every,

every few years, a wrestler dies, a young amateur Muay Thai fighter died. I think in Australia, right? Yeah. Yeah. The,

the, the issue for that, that people have trouble understanding. Well, first off I've to the IV point, I've heard coaches say it's just for their head. They feel better once they, like, they think they need the IV and it's like a placebo. I've had coaches tell me it's pretty much a placebo. You can't do it that much more.

Now, once again, I haven't read the studies, but I've had coaches tell me that. That Mike Fider just needs it for his head. It used to be like what we'd assume you had to have. Like if a guy's going gonna cut a lot of weight He's gonna have a guy ready with an IV how many bags you take that was the thing that everybody always brought immediately Yeah, how many bags the two things that people don't really know when people ask me cuz I've been in this since about 2099 is when I first started 2099 you're from the future. I'm future fucking 2099 2099 dude. I knew thousand comma 99

Guys didn't cut like they do now. When you look at old UFCs and you look at the size of these guys, Tito's one of the few guys who was, right now, a legit 205. Frank Shamrock is like my size? Yeah, Frank Shamrock was very small for the... Incredible small. Especially when he fought. When Tito Ortiz and Frank Shamrock fought, it was one of the very first displays of defense and cardio and how critical it was in victory.

100%. He was lighter. He was only like 190 when they fought. Dude. And he was able to push. Fully clothed in 198. Was he? Yeah.

Fully clothed. Taking stuff out of his pockets. Like a joke. Like I'm fully clothed. So guys cut more than they did in the early parts of the sport. I mean, they just cut a lot more. And when people ask me, well, what do you do about weight cutting? How do we change it?

One of the things about fighting in general, and this goes too with other aspects of the sport, you're asking people who already take a huge risk. Fighting is just a huge risk, period, to not take another huge risk. Just the mentality of if I have to do this to win, I'm going to do it. You're saying, oh, they can't take that risk. Well, you already have the personality of, I don't care what I have to do. I'm getting in that fight and I'm making it. So it's hard.

What rule can you make? It's hard to do. You're talking about a group of people that are already used to taking a huge, dangerous physical risk to even get in there. So adding on the weight cut, they're going to take that gamble every time. No, I agree with you if they can. One FC, though, is instituting some interesting new rule changes. And One FC is doing hydration tests.

They've done high schools now for wrestling. They didn't do that before. They should. They should. And, oh, God, I'm trying to remember who told me that this weekend. in high school is not for wrestling. They didn't do that before. They should. I'm trying to remember who told me that this weekend. But they're essentially saying they're going to be able to ban weight cutting. They're just going to be able to institute that no one's going to be able to cut weight.

If you pass the hydration test, you're not going to be able to cut weight. So you have to pass this hydration test at every form, at every turn. You can't just get on the scale and you weigh 170 pounds. Oh, congratulations. No. No, no, no. You weigh 170 just get on the scale and you weigh 170 pounds. Oh, congratulations. No. No, no, no.

You weigh 170 pounds, but you're in danger. Like, look at your body. Look at your hydration levels. At what point are they testing? Apparently, they're doing it in three separate- Because you don't want a card falling apart. Of course. They step up. Not you.

Not you. And then half the card falls apart. Yeah. I wonder what they did to- So when would they? That's my question. Well, they'd have to do it early and blow all the weight classes up. Yeah.

Yeah, that's what we were having this conversation. You have to shift everybody one, at least. Or if you don't even shift them one, you find out, like, what weight are you really? You know, I mean, you could be like a Luke Rockhold dude who's a giant 185-er. I mean, Luke easily looks like he could be a heavyweight when you're

walking around him. Easy. He's like 220 or 230 or something like that, and then he gets to... I mean, maybe he's mad at me right now. I don't really know. Ugly muscle, bro. I might be exaggerating. But at the very least, when he gets down to 185, he's probably coming from 200 plus pounds.

And a big, tall 205. But then there's other guys that just don't cut that much at all. But what gets me is there's no hard and fast body type rule. Like I said, Doug Sima is huge. He makes it every time. Do you ever talk to him about how he does it? He's told me little things. He used to not do it well, and he looked like death.

In the last few fights, he's looked much better. He tended to bloom up to like 210, 215. And he's American top team, right? Yeah, yeah Atlanta somewhere. Oh really somewhere down south where he might go there to spar or something, but he's he's not at the main Main facility most of there are they all like integrated like Gracie Baja? Yeah, yeah Yeah, the same team so he goes around to get work But it's it's and then I have guys, you know, Fernando Gonzalez never makes weight.

And he looks like he's got something to lose. Like he's not the most shredded, biggest 170 and yet he always has trouble with it. So it's weird. Certain guys, you're like, man, there's no way that guy can make it. And he always does. And certain guys look like they should be able to make it pretty easily and just don't. It's strange. There's no easy rules is what I'm saying.

Darion Caldwell is huge at 135. He's huge. And he makes it. He's a wrestler his whole life at 135. He's huge. And he's a wrestler his whole life. Right. He makes it every time. And he's a giant. Yeah. I mean, how much of it is discipline?

How much of it is a really good game plan and a really good nutritionist? Like, Nermick Amatov made weight easily this time. Yeah. And, you know, Cyborg obviously had a hard time trying to 140. But at 145, she's been she's been successful, cutting the weight. But for Nurmagomedov, he's had some real fucking problems making 55. This time, no problems. Looked amazing.

Well, one of the things, once again, going back to storytelling for us, is when someone doesn't make it, they don't make weight. Is it advantage the heavier guy, or is it advantage the guy who, if you don't make weight, maybe something happened that last couple weeks of camp that maybe a little injury kept you from losing the weight? Or is it advantage the bigger guy? Yeah. Is it better to come in big? Or did the guy who made weight, was he a little more disciplined at the end?

And he has an advantage in the fight. You don't know at the time. Well, the problem with Erma Gamatov obviously was the last fight before this previous spectacular fight with Barboza. He didn't make the weight because he had to go to the hospital. So that's a different animal. That's like, oh, you pushed it so far that they wanted to make sure you stayed alive. So they had to bring you to a hospital.

So they obviously realized there's some changes that need to be made. They made those changes, and fucking hell on Friday, or on Saturday night, rather. Fucking hell. Unbelievable. It's really weird sometimes when you, in any sport, I don't care what it is when you see

somebody you know jordan in his prime you just you just can't cover the guy it's almost like he's the only one on the court yeah never give me enough it was like he was the only one in the cage it was like everything was inevitable everything was inevitable yeah that was inevitable the beatings were inevitable you know even if you hit him congratulations now you're on your ass you're getting punched in the face over and over again you can't get up you're getting mauled like immediately and and against an excellent fighter i forget barbosa is amazing amazing and he made him look like he's the look on his face when he got up when barbosa was like hey you were better than me I you know it was almost like a yeah like a shrug I wasn't even mad it was just when you see somebody

that much better it's it's back to the drawing board well I was super impressed with Barboza being able to make it to the final bell I mean that was amazing just being able to do that that shows you what a dominant performance it was by a guy like Khabib but you you also realize what a world-class fighter Barboza is, that he did, keeps throwing wheel kicks in the third round, and he even landed one of them. It just didn't have much on it anymore. Didn't have the juice on it anymore. But fuck, man, he was still trying to win after a horrendous mauling for eight-plus

minutes. You know when I really look at fighters when I really focus on them especially the face in between rounds I look for that breaking moment of like you know Vitor Belfort, Randy Couturne sitting on the ground just like didn't even sit on a stool. He sat on the ground like beat and I'm like this guy's beat. It's when you

look at them in between rounds and you see that like what am I doing in here? That's when you know you know the men from the boys mentally speaking and you know in in bellator patricio pitbull i remember he fought when he fought um daniel strauss he's getting beat up for like four rounds and every round he looked like lemmy adam there wasn't there wasn't anyone and you know toward the end of the fourth round with a rear naked choke he just never quits and i always look for that breaking moment, man.

That's what really separates the guys who are mentally 100% there on those horns. I think Barboza got beaten, but I don't think he got broken. No, I don't think so either. If you think about the amount of time during that fight, he was actually getting his ass kicked. When I said eight, I think I might have said rounds. I meant minutes. I think there was like eight minutes of prolonged top time and beating in that fight plus and then there's all the backward movement trying to get away throwing

those inside leg kicks and doing everything he can everything he can to create space but for eight fucking minutes he never gave up he just or whatever it was 15 minutes just getting the fuck beaten out of him he kept trying to win he wasn't capable of doing it but he never broke uh teddy atlas said fighters make an agreement i'll stop trying to win. He wasn't capable of doing it, but he never broke. Teddy Atlas said, fighters make an agreement. I'll stop trying to win if you'll stop trying to hurt me. Whoa, yeah. And he never did that.

He never went, look, just go away. Just leave me alone and I'll back up and you can beat me. He never did that. He kept throwing the whole time, which is incredible, but just no answer. How many 10-8s were there on the scorecards? Well, the thing is, Jimmy. One out of 10-8 every round. It was the old scoring, too. Nevada hasn't adopted the new rules.

So for people who don't know, the new rules make it easier to make distinctions between a 10-9 round, 10-8 round, 10-7 round, which I agree. They haven't adopted that. No, Nevada has not. That's an old school 10-8. Yeah. It's an ass-whooping 10-8. Yeah. It's an ass-whooping 10-8. There were some ridiculous scorecards that seemed to indicate to some of us that even though the new rules are better and the states haven't adopted them, the judges have decided to adopt them in some sort of a weird non-declared way.

Because it just definitely seemed there was a much larger disparity in the numbers in the scorecards. Yeah. But Nurmagomedov just mauled him. Mauled him. I mean, mauled him in a way that you go, oh, God. You're not even there. He's just on such another level that the odds of you beating him drop so substantially after the first minute and a half.

After you get, you saw the look on Barbosa's face. There's like two minutes plus into the first round, and he's trying to get up. You see the look on his face. He's like, fuck. How am I going to deal with yeah like this is so next level you know what's really funny it's almost to me like a throwback kind of fighter in in a sense of if you remember back in the day guys that didn't have a real solid wrestling or jiu-jitsu background when they felt that pressure they kind of went oh my god yeah they didn't have any experience with it they were just like holy

crap like a truck rolling over you. You almost saw that look on his face. Like, oh, like I've never felt anything like this in my life. And for someone training at Barbosa's level, who you know he's training with high level guys, he's training with all kinds of outstanding wrestlers and jujitsu guys,

to have that look like, this is some crazy pressure. That's insane because no one has secret techniques anymore. It's not, it's not divided skill wise. I mean, you'll have great guys in every camp

and the fact that you see on someone's eye, and I, you know, not divided skill-wise. I mean, you'll have great guys in every camp. And the fact that you see on someone's eye, and I say this to fighters, you don't want the first time you experience something to be in the cage. You want to experience this in training, and then you can deal with it in the cage. Barbosa had a look in his eye like, I have never felt anything like this in my life. Ever. And that's incredible, considering modern techniques. Well, it seems to me that everything right now is next level in comparison to a year and a half,

two years ago. Like, Dos Anjos beat Robbie Lawler recently in just a fucking tour de force performance. Watch that fight. I was like, this is as good as Dos Anjos has ever looked, if not better. Real sharp. Fucking amazing at 170. But more importantly, the output,

the amount of shots that he landed, the amount of shots that he landed, the amount of shots that he fired, the endurance that he's showing, everybody is on this complete different performance level right now. What I loved about that performance is one thing that generally doesn't change weight class as well when you move up is power. Meaning, Robbie Law, if you remember, at 170, he was knocking everybody out. At 185, he was like, so-so. The shot that knocks somebody out at 70 when he's a strike force at 185 isn't going to

knock out Jacare. It's not going to knock out Babalu. It's not going to knock out these big 185ers. So a lot of power punchers have trouble changing weight classes because the power shot just doesn't go with them. Dos Anjos looked like he knew that. And when I got a volume guy at 170, I'm not going to knock anybody out with one shot like I did at 55. I have to throw more at 70.

I have to be more accurate at 70. I have to slice them up with elbows a little more. So I like all the adjustments he made for the new weight class. He didn't try to fight like he did at 55. He's like, I've got to throw more against these guys. I can't go one punch for one punch with Robbie Lawler. That guy's a huge 170. So I like the way his style modified with the weight class change.

A lot of guys don't do that. I agree. And I also think the use of leg kicks is critical. You've got to slow Robbie down. Robbie's a big, heavy guy. And he immediately started chopping. It is crazy to me also that that low calf kick is becoming such a giant factor in MMA. That kick is just dominant now.

Everybody's using it. Remember what Melvin Manoff did to him? After he knocked Manoff out and couldn't walk. He knocks him out and was limping over to his corner going, one more and I'm done. That was one of the greatest comebacks from behind knockouts ever. He's eating all those leg kicks and Melvin

is just coming after him. If you haven't seen that fight folks, see it. Because it's awesome. Melvin Manoff is just owning that leg. Got a little aggressive as Melvin Manoff does and got clipped, man. Got clipped with the haymaker of all haymakers. Hail mean, Melvin was just owning that leg. Got a little aggressive, as Melvin Manoff does, and got clipped, man. Got clipped with the haymaker of all haymakers. Hail Mary, man. And then one on the way down, too. Yeah.

When he was out, and then boom! Another big left behind him. Remember that? Yeah. Tiki's sitting there and lands with the shot, yeah. Yeah, Robbie was a brutal, brutal knockout artist. I always wanted to see a rematch between him and Nick Diaz. I think everybody wants to see that. That would be awesome.

How is it possible that that didn't take place? There are certain matches that you wonder, man, how did that never? You know, the run Vanderlei was on, right? Vanderlei Vitor 2 never happened. I mean, there are certain ones you go, man, I can't believe that fight never happened again. That's certainly one of them. Still could. Still could, hypothetically.

I mean, it would still sell like crazy. I mean, I wonder if Nick Diaz, if he wanted to come back, would only want to come back for a title fight. I wonder if he's like that kind of money fight guy where he's like, yeah, obviously he's got some money. And obviously he's not beating down anybody's door to fight. No. He's not, you know, he's doing whatever the fuck he wants to do. But if you could get him back for a big money fight, I wonder if it would only be like a title fight. That's increasingly what's happening these days.

I mean, guys are like, ah, I'm not getting paid. Like GSP. Yeah. He came back for a huge money fight and that's if it would only be like a title fight. That's increasingly what's happening these days. I mean, guys are like, I'm not getting paid. Like GSP. Yeah, he came back for a huge money fight and that's it, you know. It's funny, Dana White said something crazy like, yeah, he's just going to pack up his money and head back to Canada. Got a big check. Three suitcases to hold all of it. Yeah. He did. Big money fight

stuff. Won the title and then retired. I mean, look, as far as like legacy, if he wanted to end it right there, that's a pretty nice cherry. Yeah, that's a nice one. That's a pretty nice cherry. With a finish? Yeah. That's pretty awesome.

Come back up, choke the champ to sleep and say, nah, I'm good. Now, do you think he comes back for any other fighter? Michael Bisping was the perfect guy for him to come back and fight. I think he's the perfect guy for him to come back and fight. The perfect guy for him to come back. He comes back for Conor. Yeah. That's the fight. But I don't think they want to do that. I don't think stylistically it's...

I mean, it could certainly happen. It would certainly sell, but we know how GSP fights. A, he's a giant compared to Conor. He has a wrestling-heavy style. I don't think it's a great... It would be hard for Conor to look good in that fight, is the way I see it. It would be hard for Conor to look good unless he caught him coming in, which no one's been able to really do against GSP.

They would have to do some sort of a catchweight. Yeah. Because their body composition would just be so much different. Wouldn't work. If they really did 170. And that was an issue that he had with Nate. But Nate is a legit 155-er. He kept saying, you've got to have some fucking attributes.

You know, like, Nate is a big, long guy. Yeah. And he does get heavy in between fights, but the reality is, he fought successfully, made weight 155 on numerous occasions easily. Yeah. You know, fought in the Ultimate Fighter at 155. That's his weight. And that was another one of those, when he came up from 45 to 55, I think he was still

in that one-shot mode. And if you watch that fight again, Conor hits him and goes, shit, he's still here because I'm at 55. And not only does Diaz have a great chin, he's a big 55er. He's well hydrated. And especially when they fought, the first time was a 170. He's hydrated. He hasn't cut at all. He can take a shot. And that one shot ability he had at 45, oh shit, it's not here anymore. I think he was a little bit more prepared. Nate fought at least twice at 70 in the UFC before college. He fought Rory.

Rory and who else? Who was the other guy? Who else did he fight at 70? He fought again at 70. I forget who he fought. Right now we're being tweeted at. So who's looking at losers? I should have your job.

Yeah, totally. I'm totally looking for that tweet. I don't remember what it was, but he had, I want to say maybe Stungun Kim? That might have been. Is that it? It might have been that. Somebody's looking it up right now for us. Young Jamie's on the case. Is that, is it?

What does it say? It doesn't have his weight listed on the thing I was looking at. Well, put it up so I can take a look at it. Yeah, we see it. What is it? Is it say? It doesn't have his weight listed on the thing I was looking at. Well, put it up so I can take a look at it. Yeah, we see it. What is it? Is it Wiki? Yeah. Just go to the Wiki MMA record, and it'll show it.

Oh, look. Oh, there we are. Two eggs. Down here, right? What do we got here? Brian McDonald, Don Young Kim. Yeah, Don Young Kim. Yeah, so it was that.

Yeah, it was. So it was right. So he tried it for a little bit. After he beat Marcus Davis, he was just having a hard time making the weight. Then he came back to 55 and beat Takanori Gomi, beat Donald Cerrone, beat Jim Miller. That Cerrone fight was,

I think, maybe his finest fight. He took Cerrone apart. He mentally fucked up Cerrone with the trash talking. He got in Cerrone's head and it became very emotional for him. Donald likes to be friends with the guys he fights. Yeah, well, with the Diaz's, that ain't going to happen. Yeah, yeah.

He's a nice guy. Donald just likes to fight. He's a really nice guy, though. To loop it back to our earlier discussion about weight cutting, there's a reason guys do it. I mean, Diaz is a great 55er, is a so-so 70. Right. You know, Diaz is a great 55er, is a so-so 70. Right. You know, a fantastic BJ Penn.

To me, the worst thing that ever happened to BJ Penn was when he knocked down Matt Hughes and thought, I can fight at 70. He was 1-5-1 at 70. Right. Well, he choked him out once, then he knocked him out. Yeah. I mean, initially when he went to 170 pounds.

Yeah. It was the only fighter he ever beat at 170 was Matt Hughes. Right. In the UFC. So what that did is that, I think he fought 185 when he was on The Rock, when he took on Gracie. Yeah. Two Gracies.

He fought Rodrigo, too. But once he had that idea that he could beat these guys at 170, I mean, you saw what Diaz did to him. I mean, he just wasn't ready. Rory ate him alive. It's just a great 55er isn't always a great 70. Robbie Lawler at 70 is not a great 185er. No, the Rory and Nick ones

are particularly hard to watch. Which, you know, and then was sort of accentuated back when BJ made his return at 45. And then you go, okay, well this makes more sense. Like, you were at 55 when he fought Diego Sanchez, he was one of the baddest 55ers of all time.

He was a monster. But for whatever reason, he just, you know, never quite – that level was only attained a few times. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And he's one of those guys where – I mean, I was talking to Josh Thompson recently backstage in New York. And, you know, he used to train with Frank Shamrock and BJ Penn, and said they were sitting there with an exercise ball, and they'd already been training for a while,

and they said, we're trying to stand on this exercise ball, and we're trying and trying and falling and falling, and BJ walks in like an hour late for practice and says, what are you guys doing? And he goes, oh, we're trying to stand on this exercise ball, and BJ jumped on it and went, okay, and walked back in it. They'd been trying for like an hour to stand on this thing and so you know i've heard a million stories of of that bj you know coming in late to practice smoking everybody and leaving like you know i i never trained with you i don't know but but you have that sense he's one of those you go man if i had if you had you know uh bj penn's ability which is off the chart incredible with the longevity and work ethic of like a Matt Hughes.

I mean, he might still be champion. It's unbelievable what the guy had. Really unbelievable. But like you said, it was in spurts and fits. And then he left UFC for a while because he didn't like the minor. They got rid of the 55 division and, you know, these fits and starts, man. He fought Machida. At heavyweight.

It's insane. It was over 205. Insane. Over 205, man. It's incredible. I think Machida was like 210 or something It's insane. It was over 205. It's insane. Over 205, man. It's incredible. It's incredible. I think Machida was like 210 or something in that fight. It's incredible.

Yeah. You know? He fought Dwayne Ludwig over there. Yep. Yeah. On triangle choked him out. Yeah. And the Rumble and the Rock fights were fucking great.

Oh, the Gomi fight is awesome. It's great. I love that fight. It was a great idea. He's like, fuck it, I'll make my own promotion. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's balls. And Hawaii used to be a really fertile ground for MMA.

Yeah. That used to be, man. Sure. Yeah, man. Yeah. Super Bra balls and Hawaii used to be a really fertile ground for him. I mean, I used to be been Unbelievable. Yeah, man. Yeah Super Bowl. We're fucking great Back in the day he tore John has bra come on. Yeah, he tore John Hess was over there John Loeb Mayhem had a bunch of fights over there that big tournament That's right, John Loeber Shamrock. Way back in the day, yeah. Mayhem had a bunch of fights over there. They had big tournaments over there in the beginning. Mayhem and Egan Inouye, remember that?

Egan Inouye got Mayhem in a crazy Kimura. Mayhem just kept rolling out of it and rolling out of it and wouldn't tap. Spanking him and then hitting him. Yeah, I remember that. Frank Trigg and Robbie Lawler back then, remember, in Hawaii? Yeah. Holy shit. Miller Lawler.

That's right. Miller beat him. That's right, he did. Miller choked him out, yeah. That's right. Shoot, Mayhem Miller was a bad motherfucker. Monster. He's a bad motherfucker in the day.

We trained together. He was one of my first training partners. I started with Team Punishment in like 2000, 99, 2000. Wow. And Mayhem was there. And, you know, rolling with that guy was crazy. Super skillful. Unbelievably skillful.

And funky and crazy. Great chokes. Flexible and everything. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think his finest performance was against Sakuraba. That's what I think

Mayhem's finest performance was. He was one of those just technical and clean and just went through him. Just chop, chop, bang, bang, smash, choke. I think he was one of those guys looking back on it.

There are certain guys who I'm thinking around Josh Barnett a bit, I think Shaolin a little bit who had they he didn't settle down on promotion right in his prime and really you know what i mean because he's bouncing around a little bit josh barnett spent his prime kind of bouncing around a lot yeah by the time he made his ufc run he wasn't it was late in his career because remember he fought gsp took a long break off and came back and just wasn't the same guy you know and you

wonder sometimes. I think maybe in his prime, Vitor Chalin might be the best 55er in the world in his prime. But he was in Shuto. He would move around a lot in Japan and just was off the U.S. radar. And that was Cavalcante, too, right? Jay-Z. Jay-Z Cavalcante. That was a big issue with him. Back in the day, people were saying he was the best 155-pounder alive.

A lot of the guys that trained with him. By the time he came to the States it was just a little bit further past it. Yeah, there's been a few of those cases, right? Like Josh Thompson who we're talking about. At one point Tom

was the best lightweight in the world or one of them and then had some of his best fights with Gilbert who was also at the same time in the same bracket

and they fought in strike force while they were peaking. Fantastic fights. Woo! Go back and watch those folks. They are awesome guys. But what people don't understand, who maybe are new to the sport, the ecosystem used to be different.

You could make good money fighting for Icon Sports in Hawaii. There wasn't a lot of incentive to move around. And guys moved around much easier. Oh, they fought here a couple times and here a couple times. They weren't as restrictive with talent as it is now, where it's Belter fighters don't move over and UFC fighters don't move over until they're done with their contracts. Guys moved around a lot. And so somebody like Josh Barnett could move around a little bit more and make more money than he would settling down somewhere.

But it kept him off the radar of a lot of U.S. fans. Well, how about Eve Edwards? Eve Edwards is probably the best 155-pounder in the world. And the UFC got rid of the division. You know, it's so hard. Remember that? It's hard to explain that to people. That they once cut the 55 division.

At the time, he had just knocked out Josh Thompson. With that head kick off the spinning back fist. Highlight reel head kick knockout. One of my favorite of all time. Oh, man. And they got rid of the 55 pound division right after that knockout. Right in that era. And once again, by the time he came back, he fought in Pride,

beat Mishima over in Pride, lost to Joachim Hansen. By the time he came back, it was just too late. He was at the end of his run. Yeah, man. He fought Jorge Masvidal in Bodog, too. Remember that? Yes, he did. Got knocked out.

Yeah, I remember that. Right here, cuts him, spinning back fist, boom. Boom. They both threw at the same time. Blood sports. Yeah, that was when Eve was at the top of the food chain. Great guy. Love Eve.

Oh, the best. Strayed with him a couple times when I first started. Super skillful, super nice guy. Yeah, man. So those guys were, you know. Cut loose. They had to go somewhere. They had to find a place for them.

And then Strikeforce became the spot where you had the Gilbert-Josh-Thompson wars. You had Tim Kennedy had some great fights over there. Clay Guida, that's where he got his start when he beat Josh. Big, huge upset. Rockhold came from there. That's right. That's when Clay beat Josh. It was a huge, huge upset.

Yeah. Man, there were some good fights over in Strikeforce. There really were. I liked the tournament format. It was fun. You know, the heavyweight division was awesome at a time when the UFC division was at a low point. The heavyweight division was at a low point.

I thought Strikeforce was great. It's just hard for people to accept talent levels of folks that aren't in the big shows. It's like it took Marlon Mraz to come over and, you know, look the way he looked in his last fight. You know, when you see, when you see, like, Justin Gaethje come over from World Series of Fighting

and see the fucking brawl he had with Michael Johnson and the crazy fight with Eddie Alvarez, you realize, like, oh, this guy's been like this all along. Yeah. You know, and then when Mraz knocks out Aljamain Sterling with that, well, he's trying to kick him, but he hit him with the knee.

But I mean, chaos him, flatlines him. And you realize, oh, this guy is fucking for real. This is a guy that just beat Hennon Barau, right? Aljamain just beats Hennon Barau. Mraz starches him with a high kick. And you're like, whoa, this guy was in the World Series of Fighting. People didn't really look at that. It's like he's top shelf talent. When Eddie

came from Bellator. Yep. He comes over to UFC and you could argue that Eddie was in his physical prime Bellator. He's a little bit younger, a little bit sharper. He comes over to the UFC, does the same thing, knocks people out, wins a belt and suddenly he's on everybody's radar. I said, well, you know, he was... But you remember he lost to Donald first. Yeah, he did. He didald uh exposed the weaknesses to leg kicks yeah that

was one of donald's best fights when you think about what eddie went through when you go cowboy soroti there was gilbert melendez was next for him dos anjos was like jesus christ murderers run yep and the dos anjos ko was just crazy yeah Yeah, Eddie is always going to have power. He's a savage. He's a fun fucking dude to watch. And he gets dropped in almost every fight he's in. It was just like a thing. When is Eddie going to get dropped?

Boom, and he gets up and keeps fighting. It's almost like it wakes him up. Well, he's just so ferocious. Great guy, too, if you haven't met him. He's a great guy. He's so ferocious that it's almost inevitable that he's going to get tagged. Yeah.

Because he's just so, like, throwing it all to the wind. Let's see. Let's find out. He's confident that he can get through it better than you can. Yeah. So he's just, like, everybody's going to get cracked. Like, that's why the Geiji fight was so engaging. Like, you knew this is what this fight was going to be.

And it was one of the rare fights that 100% lived up to the hype. Yeah. It was exactly what we thought it was going to be. It was fucking madness from the beginning to the end. And when you look at how many, some of you listed it, how many champs from different organizations he's beaten in his career.

Yeah. And he's beaten them all. Yeah. He's beaten them all. Because he was one of those guys, once again, going back to what we were talking about, where he moved around a lot in his prime.

Went from Japan to Bellator and was off a lot of fans' radars. He was like that, the people that really follow MMA knew Eddie Alvarez. But your casual fan didn't until he made his UFC transition. Is he the only guy that ever won the title in both organizations? Bellator and UFC? Yeah.

Yes. Yeah, right? Yeah. No one else else. Yeah. I mean, that's pretty goddamn impressive. That's incredible. I think the other guy who has a chance is Lima or Rory,

depending upon who wins that fight. Yeah, the winner of that fight is right there with everybody. I mean, you can't deny it. Rory beat Tyron in a very dominant decision. Completely, yeah. Yeah. I mean, and he's lost to guys, he lost to Lawler, and of course Lawler got knocked out by Tyron, so he can't do MMA math.

Doesn't work. But Tyron's the champ, and Rory beat him. There's no MMA math involved in that. He's there. Yeah. I think Tyron's better champ, and Rory beat him. There's no MMA math involved in that. He's there. I think Tyron's better now. I really do. Yeah. Definitely.

100%. And maybe it would be different if they fought again, but it's just statistically interesting. He says the things when I talked to him when he came over to Bellator. You know what's funny? We do fighter meetings, fighter interviews, where I sit them down and I talk to them about the upcoming fights and everything and I don't pay attention to what

they say as much as how they say it and I have to say Rory McDonald when he came in I went this guy wants to be champion he's not he's not coming over here going I'm gonna get paid and that's it I mean he really has a fire in him to be champion. He is 100% devoted to it. And that puts him in rare air. And Lima, if you haven't seen that guy fight, man, he hits you. You don't know where you are. He puts everything behind every punch. And he can start to anybody in the division.

The question to me is can he handle the takedown? His takedown defense has been suspect in the past. And we'll see if he can handle the takedown of Rory. Yeah, because that's exactly what Rory used on Paul Daly. He just went right through Paul Daly. And he cracked him first. That's what impressed me. He cracked him.

And it kind of made Daly hesitate. And then, boom, takedown's a mission. Yeah, you could see that he wanted to let Daly know, this is a fight. I'm going to be a danger on the feet standing. And then guess what? Oh, look, I'm on the ground. I'm not afraid of you anywhere. And I'm on top of you.

And now you're getting strangled. Yeah. Yeah, as long as he's not afraid of him standing up, then there's no hesitancy in engaging. And he wasn't afraid. I mean, he's the one who drew. I mean, he's the one who landed first. He's top of the food chain, in my opinion. I think he's right up there with anybody at 170 pounds in the world.

And I'd like to see him back in the UFC for selfish reasons. Of course you would. Yeah. I understand. And I want to see what the fuck is going to happen now. I mean, the whole division is just topsy-turvy right now. Yeah. You know?

155 and 170. It's all craziness. There's so much happening right now with RDA just dominating Robbie Lawler like that and people clamoring for a title fight for him. And now Tyron had to get shoulder surgery. So Tyron had a torn labrum, apparently tried to rehab it, and eventually wound up getting surgery. So he's out

for several months, you know, where he can't do shit. A tough thing whenever you know, in Bellator or the OC or wherever, whenever you have that backlog, whenever you have a champ who can't defend a title or something like that or he's out for a little bit, the piranhas, I mean, they eat each other. You know, if there's no, oh, we're going to get the title.

You can go through your prime waiting for that guy to come back from surgery. It could be a year, a six-month, whatever it is. In a division that's that stacked and these guys are killers, you can go through your whole prime trying to climb up that mountain again. It is tough. That's the difference between boxing and MMA, right? Because in boxing, your manager would make you keep that number one contender position. 100%.

Yeah. They would wait on that one. Let's wait on this one. Or you'd take a risk. Or you'd fight nobody. Yeah. You'd fight some Joe Louis bum of the month club. Yeah.

That was the thing about boxing. Yeah. Guys would take warm-up fights, tune-up fights. Yeah. And those would also be like highlight fights because you'd tee off on some guy that was below him and everybody would get super excited about this guy that Tyson's about to fight. Yeah. Or whatever it was. Yeah. You know it's funny, I was talking to Steve, I talked to Steve Fardhood today actually.

We ended up chatting a little bit. He does the boxing for Showtime. He's there. Yeah. That guy used to be editor for Ring Magazine for like 30 years. You can't stump him about boxing at all i've tried i've had some obscure stuff he is phenomenal everything he knows we were talking once about the heavyweight division and oh it's not really good right now and he he looked at me he goes it usually isn't he said the the heavyweight division usually isn't the most stacked division in boxing we remember the errors when it was because that really stands out to us but generally it's not that good usually 47 is the

marquee division with great fighters in it he's like the reason tyson stands out to us. But generally, it's not that good. Usually, 47 is the marquee division with great fighters in it. He's like, the reason Tyson stands out so much is, you talk about, oh, there was nobody in the fight in the 80s. Well, they're usually, their whole decade's where it wasn't that good. You know, it happens all the time. Remember when Tony Tubbs was a champ? Yeah. Yeah, there was a lot of guys.

Tony Tucker, remember him? Sure, there was a lot of guys. Post Larry Holmes, there was just a massive amount of guys. Yeah. Trevor Burbick, I mean? Sure. There was a lot of guys. Post Larry Holmes. Yeah. There was just a massive amount of guys. Yeah. Trevor Burbick. I mean. Sure. Guys are kind of lost to history at this point.

Yeah. That's who Tyson beat. Remember? Yeah. Burbick was the champ. Fell down three times from one punch. That was crazy. I remember it well.

Mills Lane was a referee. He was 20, right? Yes. Sorry about that, folks. Youngest heavyweight champion of all time. Boy, I'm coughing. I'm not even sick. But it's almost like. I feel like I have a, you know, I eat pistachios.

Yeah. And you get one of them little, not the shell, but that little outside layer of the pistachio. I almost feel like I got a little piece of that in the back of my throat. Could be. You never know, man. Could be. You never know. Could be just that jinx of having another commentator across from you, you know?

He makes you cough? Project more, you know? You're trying to. I don't think so. It's like a little battle of having another commentator across from you. Makes you cough? Project more. You know, you're trying to. I don't think so. It's like a little battle, bro. You know how it is. Are we battling, bro? No, we're good, bro.

We're good, bro. Come on. I want to know what the fuck is going to happen with Connor. Yeah, that's, I mean, you and everybody else. Because Habib. You and everybody else. After this performance, Habib has set it up to a place where he's the most terrifying, lightweight contender in the world.

Then you have Tony Ferguson, who's a motherfucker, who's the interim champion. And then you have Conor, who who knows what's going to happen with him. And I think the UFC is going to give him a little while. Going to give him some time. You know, hey, let the holidays pass. See what the fuck happens. And then they're going to have to make some moves. But they want to do a Russia while. I'm going to give them some time. You know, hey, let the holidays pass. See what the fuck happens. And then they're going to have to make some moves.

But they want to do a Russia fight. Yeah. And if they want to do a Russia fight, I know a guy. I know a guy that'll sell some

fucking tickets in Russia, baby. Yeah. Tony Ferguson and Khabib Nurmagomedov in Russia. What? Khabib is...

Did you say that on Twitter about this? Connors? What did Connors say? I'll let you go. I skin your pets and only wear them once. That was his response. Come on. That's...

It's witty. Oh, my God. Truly, truly get on your fucking knees and beg me. Otherwise, I don't give a bollocks. My whiskey is out this year and that's diddy bread. No, but I think below that is the, so he tweeted the bear thing, and then it was, I skin your pets and I wear them once. Oh, yeah, that's right.

That was pretty funny. That's pretty funny. That was comparatively witty. Yeah, I slaughter your pets and wear them as coats and only wear them once. And I only wear them once. That's pretty funny. But there's a- It'd be a lot of it's good trash talk i like it have you ever seen a documentary called uh bobby fisher against the world no follow chess there

was uh there's a documentary about bobby fisher called bobby fisher against the world and whether or not you're into chess you should really really watch it i'm into bobby fisher yeah okay it's called bobby fisher against the world and the guy yeah he is was and anyway, they interview one of his friends, his lifelong friends, named Dr. Anthony Sadie. And their last conversation before Bobby cut him off, he said, Bobby, if you don't play chess, eventually there'll come a time where no one will ask you to play chess. That's the situation. You know, you can keep doing this in tweets, but the reason you're famous and the reason people,

what you have in front of you is because you fight. And there comes a time when, like I said, the division, the sport and the division, it'll move past you. Now, Conor may have enough money, he doesn't care about that, but that's always a risk. You know, you're an old school, you know sugar ray robinson tried to be a dancer entertainer and it got old and they went yeah we want to see you fight and that's all you're gonna get paid for now yeah he may not

have enough money that he doesn't care about that certainly possible but there's no sport there's no division that won't move past you eventually and that that would be a shame. And he thinks he has enough money. But he's spending like Floyd Mayweather. I mean, he's going off. If you go off like that, after a while, you're going to run out of money. Yeah.

I mean, it might be 20 years from now, but to see him... Still 20 years. And your window to make money is this big in professional sports. I'm holding out my fingers for the people just listening to this. Yeah, I don't know if that's sustainable. I don't know if he's got enough money to live the rest of his life. But he certainly doesn't if he just spends like crazy.

I mean, he might just go through a phase, and then he might decide to cherry pick specific fights to make tremendous amounts of money. And there was some talk about a Pacquiao fight in boxing. Who knows what he's going to do. But his only sustainable avenue is MMA. Meaning, once again, in boxing, let's say he fights Manny Pacquiao. For argument's sake, let's say he loses that fight.

People are going to be tired of spending $70 on a pay-per-view to watch him take on a great guy and fall short. But if he fights Tony Ferguson in a unification fight and KOs Tony Ferguson, then he can fight Manny Pacquiao all day long. Exactly. It's MMA that sustains him. Don't get mad at me, Tony. It's just a for instance, a possibility. For argument's sake, Tony.

I'm taking the devil's advocate position, Tony. Tony got mad at me wearing the hat. He's like, what are you, changing your 10-planet gear, bro? What were you wearing I don't know how to say it Papooka Come on it's a gift And listen

Just because he's got a problem I love Tony but I also love Khabib Khabib's a bad motherfucker To deny that is ridiculous So alright I gotta ask What's the maddest a fight Has ever been at you For what Man I don't know

Because we all have These stories Not many of them Usually I get along with Just about everybody I get along with Just about everybody too

And if there was Oh Rampage was mad at once I remember that Because I was saying That he needed to throw More leg kicks Or something like that But it's just because

I want him to be successful And when he does I just think that guys Get a little too Knockout heavy sometimes And I like to see people be more technical and mix it up. It's an addiction, man. And you're never going to get away from the power that Rampage had and has.

He's always going to have that power. My thought was what I would like to see as a person who's a fan, I'd like to see him mix it up more. Yeah. And become more technical. He's always going to have that ridiculous chin. He's always going to have that unbelievable power. Those things are not going away. First guy I ever grappled with.

Rampage? Quentin Rampage Jackson. That's hilarious. First guy I ever grappled with. Really? At a legit studio? I grappled with him once. We were doing something for some television show. That's right, that Inside the UFC thing that I used to do way back in the day.

That was when Spike first had the UFC. We did some stuff, and he was getting ready to fight Chuck. And we did some stuff together. A lot of people didn't know who he was. We drove around L.A. in his monster truck. He had some crazy monster truck. It was like jacked three feet up in the air. If you weren't in your pride, you didn't know who he was.

No, nobody knew who he was. At that point, of course. We ran into one of the Wu-Tang Clan. Beat Marvin Eastman before that? I was with Rampage. We ran into one of the Wu-Tang Clan. Beat Marvin Eastman before that? I was with Rampage. We ran into one of the Wu-Tang Clan, you know, weird section of LA on Hollywood Boulevard. The Wu-Tang dude was coming out of a check cashing place. I forget which guy it was.

We were having a good fucking time, though. That was before anybody knew who Rampage was. I misunderstood him because he was going by the select, once again, like 99-2000. I had finished at UCLA where I first got my taste of jiu-jitsu was at UCLA. And then I graduated. And I went to team punishment. And I get on the mat. And Fabiano Eha was the coach there at the time.

Fabiano Eha. One of the best arm bars in the day. Good foot locks too. His arm bar was fire. Sick. Especially far side. And so I got on the mat. And I shake hands with this dude, and I said, hey, my name's Jimmy.

And he goes, I'm Rampage. And I thought I misunderstood him. I was like, he can't say it. I was like, it's Randall or something, and I just misunderstood him. And all I knew is I knew armbar and footlock at the time. And he was so big, I was like, I'm just going to footlock him. And I went for all these straight footlocks on him. I got him, I got him, I got him, I got him.

And then I got an Armbar on him, and he lifted me up to the ceiling with one arm and just eroded my ass. Just went, boom, dropped right on me. And Fabiano comes running over mad. Like, oh, you're not supposed to do that. And he starts screaming at him. And he walks off, and the rampage turns to me and goes, that was cool, right? And I said, yeah, we're fine, man. I'm a wrestler.

No big deal. I've been slammed before. And that was it. That's how I met Quentin, man, back then. He was fighting King of the Cage. It was like his second fight. I was there right after his first fight or before his first fight. Like literally he was just getting started. Like living in his car stuff. And now he's come very, very far. He's one of those guys I'm really glad. Didn't he fight

Marvin Eastman in one of his first fights? That was his, I believe that was his first fight. His first fight at King of the Cage in California was Marvin Eastman. I think he fought once in Tennessee or something. But yeah, his first fight was Marvin Eastman. He lost by decision. Man. And then he just started beating guys up. What a long

history this sport has now when you think about it. It's interesting because it's all just sort of accumulated like the different styles and the different Abilities do you remember how tough especially in California in the early 2000s the local scene was a motherfucker Oh, yeah, dude, because the UFC like MMA was big. It was not baby. It was pop. It was cool It was like it was popular. It was fun and There weren't many big shows so guys had to fight on the local level for a while to get enough fights to get there. And also, once again, the contracts weren't that restrictive.

So in between UFC fights, because they didn't have that many, guys could go down to King of the Cage and make some money. So you'd see some really talented guys at King of the Cage. King of the Cage was always weird. Gladiator challenging. Indian shows. Indian casinos. Saboba Casino, man.

That's where I fought the first time. I fought like four of my fights up there. There was a bunch of casinos that would have it and it all had to be Native American reservations where they had their own rules. Yeah, it was illegal.

Weighing in on a bathroom scale. Like literally like on a bathroom scale in the lobby of the hotel and Ted would look down and go, yeah, you're good. You know, whatever.

The doctor's test was like, can you find your nose? Can you stand on one foot? Can you stand on the other foot? Okay, get in there. It was literally, that was it. It was crazy. Wild West, one foot can you stand on the other foot okay get in there it was literally that was it it's crazy it's wild west man do you remember when the king of the cage it got rainy and they decided to let everybody fight wild bro wet and wild that was crazy edwards fought on that card against jeremy williams did he really

i believe so from uh team ng team next generation remember him yeah i do yeah that was a solid team chris brennan's camp man back then yeah solid. Yeah. That was a solid team. Chris Brennan's camp, man, back then. Yeah. Solid dudes, man. Yeah, there was the two Jeremy Williams, right? It was the one who eventually fought tough, who wound up getting locked up. And then there was Jeremy, the original one, who took his own life. Yeah.

Took his own life. Very sad story. He was a really interesting guy. Super talented, too. I fought in a grappling match against Jerry at No Limits. Remember No Limits? Yeah. Yeah. Old New York, Connelly. So I got a call from the guy who ran No Limits. Remember No Limits? Yeah. Yeah.

Olden World Connelly. So I got a call from the guy who ran No Limits, and he called me and said, Hey, I have a grappling tournament coming up. Would you like to fight? Because I was doing grappling tournaments at the time. I said, Yeah, sure. No problem, man. And he goes, Yeah, I'm a super fighter against Jeremy Williams. And I went, Fuck.

Because I had seen Jeremy Williams. He was locally in California. He was known. And we got in this ring or whatever and we fought. And I caught him in a toehold. And he tapped and I went back into the locker room and he's bawling. Like bawling, bawling, bawling, bawling. Like devastated.

And I remember thinking at the time, that's that's like it wasn't a grappling term and he got caught I mean it happens and like his whole team was around him like like like a funeral or something and I and I went up to him I was like man I've always been a huge fan which is true I mean I on the local especially at that time he was like here he was he was a level above most guys and I told him man I'm a huge fan and it's an honor to fight you and he said thank you and he hugged me but I remember thinking at the time, something's going on. Like, he just seemed so emotional, so devastated. I didn't know what was going on in his life at the time,

and when I went to Japan for Fight Quest, I read that he had taken his own life. That was tough, man. That was tough. Woof. Yeah. It's not all sunshine and rainbows in MMA. Well, it certainly isn't

well it isn't in any combat sport right it's tough and it's hard to tell what's happening is it what leads you to it in the first place is you have this burning desire

to get back at people and your emotions are in turmoil and obviously everybody's different yeah man that's one of the things about Rory

that's so unique like people have this idea of him and then he did my podcast. And one of the things that people said, like, oh, he's fucking normal. He's like a regular guy. He just, when he's fighting, he's really serious.

Yeah. But when you talk, everybody thought he was like this complete, like, total silent psycho. But then he's doing the podcast. He's joking around. He's self-deprecating. He's super honest about what what happens When he trains too much You know he breaks down Yeah

And he can't do it anymore And he's like scheduled His training differently He's just a fucking He's not like I'm some superman I can't be stopped I'm never tired I'll fucking keep pushing

There was none of that Yeah People always ask me about Chael Like what's that dude He's a totally normal guy In real life He's funny He's engaging

Self-deprecating too. Yeah. You know. I talked to him after the Tito fight. I was like, you know, he comes up to us

and we're, you know, we were calling a fight after you'd already fought Tito and we're calling this fight and I'm like, how you doing? He goes,

well, I'm a competency shot. Beyond that, I'm great. You know, I'm done crying. I was in the bathroom just bawling and now,

now I'm good. He's a funny dude. He's really a funny guy. When he choked out Shogun, he said something to the effect of, he goes, he goes, if you think I'm going to, he's a funny dude. He's really a funny guy. When he choked out Chogun, he said something to the effect of, he goes, if you think I'm going to sit here and listen to a middle-aged comedian tell me what to do, I just choked out a world champion.

Something along those lines. You just wait for it. You just, whatever. Like when I interview him, and by the way, for people who don't know, I don't know how it is for you. Interviews are, if not the hardest part of our job, the X factors in interviews. Because everybody asks me, and this is kind of like a behind-the-scenes thing. People don't know.

Whether or not we do an interview is a production call, 100%. We don't decide. I don't decide personally whether or not somebody gets an interview. When I was doing Bellator, we have commercials. So they have a commercial inventory. We've got to get to them. If fights end quickly, we get interviews. If they don't, we don't.

It doesn't matter who the fighter is or what they're doing. But it's not my call. They're geeked up on adrenaline. They're all over the place. The producers in my ear are going, you have one or two questions. How many do you have time for?

They can go off crazy. You just don't know. It's the most X-factor part of our job because it's off the format factor part of our job because it's off the format you're up there holding the mic and they could

say whatever you have no idea what they're saying what they're doing you're trying to keep them in one place people don't realize that people go

oh you guys are always touching the fighter if they start moving all the cameras move guys and it ruins the shot we're trying to keep them in one place when I put my hand on a guy

what I'm trying to do or gal whatever I'm trying to keep them in one place so the two cameras get a shot of them. And they kind of sense it too. It works. It really works. But when they have adrenaline, they'll start spinning around. Or they're trying to address the crowd and they start turning around. You're trying to keep them in one spot. I had one guy, one of the weirdest tweets I've ever gotten was, sometimes you'll catch me on camera pointing at the ground. And what I'm saying is, stand right here. Come to me is stand right here come to

me and stand right so that's where the camera shot is you know I'm not right and so every now and then you'll catch me doing that what I'm doing is yeah stand right here because my director you should always get mad because I would go to the fighter and would like ruin the shot so he wants them to come to them so it's center this weirdo tweet me because it is so racist the way you point to your shoes I swear to God he said like you point to your shoes when it's a- What? I swear to God. He said, like, you point to your shoes when it's a black fighter.

And the last card hadn't had any black fighters. Dude, you got trolled. It was- You got trolled, bro. I was crying laughing. That's some kid from 4chan is fucking with you. Dude, it was- But, like, how demeaning.

And you point to your shoes when you're- I was like, what do I do? Like, explain to you how a two-shot works? It is hilarious. Or people get mad at me're, I was like, what do I do? Are you like explain to you how a two shot works? It is hilarious where people get mad at me because why didn't that fighter get an interview? And I'm like, it's literally a timing thing. Yeah. You can't, you can't read that stuff. Oh, you can't at all.

I'll read it. That's about it. I don't engage with anybody. I don't have better shit to do. But you can't get upset at people that don't understand the format. It's crazy. You're upset. You're like, you're like legitimately upset.

That's not what I was doing. Not the fucking shoes. Yeah. They, they really get, they, they really lose it over shit. But it's a small percentage. There's a million people watching and you get one shitty tweet. You've really got to think about the numbers. Oh, yeah.

Well, the thing to me, too, is when I left Bellator, when it came out, whatever it was, the 26th, the response kind of blew me away. I was hearing from people that I didn't even know they knew who I was. Everybody was just—it was a huge deal. I couldn't from people that I didn't even know they knew who I was. Everybody was just... It was a huge deal. I couldn't believe it. I didn't expect all the support I got. And I really appreciate anybody listening. I really, really appreciated it. When something like that happens... So the first time I heard

from you was when I left Bell for the first time. When Bjorn was, you know, being Bjorn, and I left. And you wrote me and went, man, keep your head up. It's going to be great. And I was like, I didn't know you knew who I was. You don't know. You're kind of cut off. You have no idea. But the support you get when you really need it, it your head up. It's going to be great. And I was like, I didn't know you knew who I was. You don't know. You're kind of cut off. You have no idea. But the support you get when you really need it is really amazing from MMA fans. Well, if you're a fan of the sport and you enjoy watching it, you want a commentator who appreciates it and knows what he's talking about and is entertaining.

Like, you take good paths, you know, when you describe things. Thank you. You criticize referees if they make shitty calls. You do the right thing. You know, you speak up for the people that are watching. That's something that's so hard. You have to do it. Yeah.

You have to do it even if you love the referee. Even if you love the referee. But a lot of things are like, one time, and I love this. And Big John, if you're listening, I would love to hear an explanation of this because this is one of the funniest moments I've ever had commentating. It was Marlon Sandro versus Frodo Hospolaev at 145 in Bellator. And I forget who got a cup shot, but somebody got a cup shot. Boom, kick to the nuts.

And Big John walks up to him and goes, and he was mic'd so I could hear it. He goes, that wasn't a bad shot. I'm only giving you two minutes. Oh, my God. And I went, I'm on air going, I don't think he can do that. It's either five minutes or he didn't get hit and he has to keep fighting. There's no, but he went up to him and goes,

that wasn't bad. I'm going to give you two minutes. And I went, so I'm on, like I have to explain that to an audience and go, as far as I know, he can't do that. It's either five or it's nothing.

When a referee does something like that, you, you, you, I'm trying to explain to the audience what he might be thinking like that didn't look bad to me but here's what he's thinking and then a lot of people think you're defending the referee

I'm trying to think about what could possibly make him do that you have to ride that line and go this is what he's thinking I disagree about that but I bring in Ratner the good thing about the UFC is you bring in Mark Ratner and Mark Ratner goes over

the actual law or the rules, rather, and how it's set up. One of the things that's interesting, we did a show in Detroit and I believe it was in Detroit, in Michigan,

they make use of the replay, but when they use the replay, the fight is over. Wow. So they make use of the instant replay, but if they do have to go to the instant replay, the fight is over. For what? For a no contest?

Oh, good. For anything. Only if it's a no contest. But when would that even be useful? If you have to end the fight. Well, it's some sort of an injury, or if someone claims that a shot was in an illegal area. So to declare a no contest. Yeah.

That's the only way it could really work. Well, the only way they can go to, once they go to a replay, so if the referee makes his call and then they request some sort of a going to the instant replay, the fight is over. There's no fighting after the instant replay is played. You know, it's so funny when people ask me about, you know, why there's so many controversies in MMA, combat sports is the only major sport, boxing and MMA, where the rules are kind of subjective, the scoring is kind of subjective, when a fight is over it's kind of subjective. There's just so much room for interpretation in every facet of our sport.

When a referee stops a fight, it's his judgment as to whether or not intelligently defending yourself is the case. You know, the scoring, 10-8, 10-9, that's completely, they make criteria, but in the end, effective striking and effective grappling is subjective. You know, and also the fouls. When I was in Israel, a guy took, Jeremiah Labiano took a groin shot and then shot to the back of the head and the referee took a point. Two different infractions. A lot of referees won't do that. You have to have at least two of the same infraction. The ref took a point away.

He's allowed to do that. So, so much of this sport is subjective. That's why there are so many arguments about this sport is, you know, so many subjective elements in it. That's why it's so important to have really good referees. It's hard to find them. They don't get any praise and they only get hate when they mess up. Yeah, hard to find them. They don't get any praise, and they only get hate when they mess up. Yeah, that's about it. They don't get praise when they do the job well.

I mean, what you said is perfect. The most locked solid is the rules. That's the most locked solid. But the scoring is very subjective. And we were talking about the Khabib fight. Even though they were using the old system, I mean, the scorecards were crazy. Yeah. I mean, Khabib was way ahead of them.

See if you can find it, Jamie. But Khabib was way, way out in front. That's something I do not miss doing is scoring. Yeah, I don't think it's smart. I do not miss that at all. I know they used to make you do that over at Bellator. I don't miss that at all. I mean, I to make you do that over at Bellator. I don't miss that at all. I'll mentally kind of score a fight

as I'm going along, but what's so funny is people's reactions to it. It's not that I mind doing it. It's that people you know, Steve Farhood, like I said, I just finished talking to who does it for Strikeforce. He's like, oh yeah, you can't make a scorecard that everyone agrees with. Most people agree with it, it seems. We're on a

10 point must system, meaning 10 or less, and we have 30-25, 30-25, and 30-24 for a three-round fight. So clearly, these are extraordinary scores. So this is- 30-24 is 10-8 in every round. 10-8 in every round. I would say the other two were 10-8 in the last two rounds. Yeah.

That would be my guess. I think it's right, though. I think 30-24 is right. 100%. That was a mauling. What I used to look for before the rule change was complete dominance.

It's got to be one-sided. And there have to be moments where I go, this should be stopped. And there were a couple of those moments in every round in the Khabib fight.

We talked about that in between rounds. Dominic Cruz and I, after the fourth round, or the second round rather, we said, do you think that this is a good argument for a stoppage right here, that the corner could be really within their best judgment to say, hey, this is enough.

The people I was with turned to me and they said, what do you tell your guy at this point? I say, show me something. If you don't show me something the first minute of this fight, towel's going in. You know, you got to tell your guy, look, you're getting handled here. We got to start thinking about your health and your future. If I don't see something in the first minute, I'm calling this motherfucker. Yeah, could you imagine if Edson landed a flying knee three minutes into the third round?

I mean, if he did turn that fight around, I mean, it would have been one of the greatest comebacks of all time. Which he was capable of doing. He's the kind of guy who could maybe throw that kind of thing. It just didn't seem like it was going to work on Khabib. He was mauling him to an extent where he was draining his energy to the point where Edson would get up, and he was trying to be mobile, but you could see the wobble in his step. He just wasn't steady.

He wasn't able to uncork, and he was just under assault also under assault there's a difference between a guy who can knock you out and a guy who's naturally heavy-handed everything they throw is hard barbosa is a knockout guy but it's essentially his accuracy he's very very precise with what he throws um he's not heavy-handed enough to like necessarily club you with a shot and knock you out he's not you know it's more his club you with a shot and knock you out. He's not, you know. It's more his kicks than anything. Yeah, know what kind of guy you have, in a sense. Once again, Patricio Pitbull and Beltor, that dude's just heavy-handed. He can hit you with anything and it's going to hurt you.

So if you're a guy that kind of guy, maybe he wins it last 30 seconds of the last round. But if you're a kicking guy who needs accuracy and timing and a guy is coming forward like Khabib was coming forward, you don't have a ton of options. You know what I mean? Know what kind of guy you have. The guy you are. In a lot of ways.

Both of those. Well, in a lot of ways it was a giant test for Khabib because we wanted to see what he looked like against one of the most elite strikers in the division. With a lot of time off too. It also was a big test for Barboza. It's like because you're going to have to use your hands here a lot and that's never been his strong suit. His strong suit has been his kicking.

Well, he knew how to negate that. He moved forward the whole time. Yeah. Fedor Krokop. Fedor stepped forward the entire time, knowing that Krokop needs an outside game for that to work. He just set the footwork traps. And it's so difficult to move back constantly.

It's so much more exhausting to constantly moving back. And, you know, Barboza was just getting chased. Imagine if that fight was in, you know Barboza was just getting chased imagine if that fight was in you know we have two cages we have the smaller cage to use for the ultimate fighter

and then the bigger cage to use for I kind of like the idea of the smaller cage for everything I kind of think that you can move around a certain amount

that big ass cage like let's get some more seats in this bitch put that little cage in here I mean the only problem is I fought in some tiny cages local stuff there's been some real little ones that they used to have some of those local shows

real little ones like smaller than this room whenever i trained it was always never more than like two steps backward because you hit the cage you just you start hitting the fence you get cornered so whenever we trained it was two steps left two steps right two steps left that's back in the day really limits a lot of your striking 100 yeah but it is what it is have you ever thought about like uh alternative venues like what would be a good alternative venue for everybody we talked about on the podcast with the fight companions all the time where i i think like a football field or a basketball court i I think like something where you fight in the center and you have plenty of room where you never go outside of it and you duke it out there.

Like Lionheart and shit? Like that? Like in an underground basement? No, I mean that's like outside. Like in a pool. Remember they fought in a pool, motherfucker? Well, if you went to- I remember that.

We show fights in the same arenas where they have basketball games, right? Yeah. We got all these dudes running around in this area, but then when the fight takes place, you know, all of a sudden we got to put up a cage. How about you just like keep that same size area, the guy standing in the center, and you know, there's a warning track where people are waiting on the outside edges, tell them

to go back in, but there's never a time where you can press someone up against the cage to try to get a takedown. It just doesn't exist. There's no cage. Like, so you don't have that extra thing that's in there that's a factor. Because the cage is a factor. 100%. 100%.

It's a factor in your backward movement. It's a factor in your ability to get back up. It's also a factor in some people's ability to hold you in place and to defend against submissions. The cage, you can't roll into certain things. Well, if that wasn't there, that would change a lot of what a wrestler can do inside the Octagon for sure. It would either be awesome or absolutely terrible. There's not a lot of middle ground for that. Yeah.

That's true. I think, do you remember when Frank Shamrock tried to do something like that? He had a thing called shoot box. Do you remember that? Yeah, I do. Yeah, I do. I never saw it. It was like a shallow bowl.

And you would fight in the middle of it. Yama did that. Yep. The Yama pit fighting thing, yeah. So did Chuck Norris's World Combat League, and they have kickboxing and that kind of a thing. They had like a little- Raymond Daniels fought in that.

Yep, he did. I think Wonderboy might have as well. Dude, it's a beast, yeah. I think he did. Crazy. Raymond Daniels is a fucking monster. Woo! That guy's beastly.

Woo! Yeah. John Wayne Parr, bro! Dude, John Wayne Parr. Representing the old man in the sport. That's awesome. 41, still smashing That guy's beastly. Yeah. And John Wayne Parr, bro! Dude, John Wayne Parr. Representing the old man in the sport. That's awesome. 41, still smashing people. Dude, unbelievable.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Bellator kickboxing, that's one thing that I really enjoyed that they did, that they really focused on world-class kickboxing, you know? I mean, guys like Joe Schilling, Raymond Daniels, they have, like Like some of the best people From the kickboxing world That came over Were competing for them

And they're making a big deal out of it And just put on exciting fights Scott Coker's baby He really loves kickboxing I know he does Yeah Yeah Well didn't he used to work for K1?

Yep There's his thing man Yeah That's where he started Way back in the day I think I got tickets for him From the Bellagio Like way back in the day When Peter hurts fought Stefan let go. Oh

Old-school lumberjack man. Yeah, man Brutal. Yeah, it's awesome. I'm a big fan of kickboxing I like the fact that Bellator decided to engage with both of those things Kevin Ross Gaston bolanos, but I just wish they would have a completely separate thing. And they're calling it Bellator, too, and people get confused. This is Bellator? This is kickboxing?

Like Bellator kickboxing? Yeah. Well, what they do is, obviously, they piggyback off the MMA shows that already exist. So we shoot them together. Right. So they just change the ring to a cage. How long does it take? It lowers from the ceiling. It's actually really cool if you've ever seen it before. Right. So they just change the ring to a cage. How long does it take? It lowers from the ceiling. It's actually

really cool if you've ever seen it before. What happens is they start out with the ring. They have the ring set up and all they have to do is change the mat and they take out the ropes and then the ring I mean the cage comes from the ceiling. They have it suspended up there with the lights and it comes down and they play 2001

and they latch it in and then MMA starts. Dude. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Some people have recorded it. That's very dope. If you find it on. Well, you know what's interesting? Bellator, whether intentionally or not, they nailed the correct shape for a platform in which a ring sits on.

Yeah. Because the Bernard Hopkins fight, when he fought Joe Smith Jr., and he got knocked out, and he went flying through the ropes and fell and hit his head, I was like, how is this not protect? How do they not have that figured out? Well, the way to have figured it out would be to have more space on the outside of the ring. Yeah.

The idea that you could just fall right through the ring and there's nothing there to catch you. All you would need is an extra four or five feet. That's what we have. Perfect. It's perfect. You guys figured it out. They.

You're not them anymore, bro. They. I know, bro. I'll get used to it eventually they fucked up who's gonna take your spot i have no idea i really have no idea i've heard i mean i have a couple theories but i i don't know i have no idea now when it goes over to the paramount network yes when does When does that happen? Now? Is it 2018? Look at this. Yeah, see, they lower it from the ceiling. And they use a round one. Yeah, we use a round cage. So it sits right in.

I like round too. There's no need to have sharp edges. But the octagon, it's like, it is what it is. It's a thing now. It's a thing.

Yeah. Round's pretty dope though. Not bad, man. Works pretty well. I'm sorry, what were you saying? Who might replace me? I don't know. Yeah.

I have no idea. Have they ever taught about changing their name? No. They did years ago. Really? Years ago. What were the options? I don't know.

I think at one point they were thinking about using the network name. So it'd be like Spike MMA. But I don't know how far that went or how many options they had. I don't know. Why not? Like HBO Boxing. Showtime Boxing. Yeah, kind of like that.

Yeah. Spike MMA. I think that's the way to go. Yeah. Yeah. The UFE. Well, now it's not going to work. It'd be Paramount Network MMA,

which doesn't roll off the tongue exactly. Spike MMA sounds good. Yeah. Yeah, Paramount MMA. They were considering that. Well, yeah, the 18th, I think, they change over. Yeah. Yeah, and then their first Bellator show on there was on the 20th, two days after. Yeah. Yeah, Paramount. They were considering that. Well, yeah, the 18th, I think, they change over. Yeah. Yeah, and then their first Bell tour show on there was on the 20th, two days after.

Hmm. Yeah. Spike TV MMA. Yeah, why Paramount Network? Paramount. Come on. You had Spike for a long time. I know.

But not the HBO boxing champion, though. Right? You know, when they- You're right. That's true. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that actually is a very good point. Like there should be some sort of a sanctioning body.

Yeah, I mean they tried that. Remember WAMA? Remember when Fedor won the WAMA championship? I was there. It was Affliction. They tried to like kind of make a belt. Yeah. But it was WAMA.

Yeah. Did you realize how that would sound? WAMA. WAMA. So what happened was they tried to? Wham-a. Wham-a. So what happened was they tried to make a belt that was independent of any particular promotion. Yes. Meaning the Wham-a belt would move when that fighter went somewhere else. Yeah.

Just the way MMA works, that was never going to fly. But people are like, well, why not? I mean, it does that in boxing. Why not? And there's no good answer. Sorry. Well, the answer is the brands are much more protective. What is this?

It's Donald Trump with the Wham-A-Bell. That is hilarious. Yeah, he was there. That's right. He was there for Tim Sylvia versus Fedor. Yeah. That was the first Wham-A-Bell, right? Yep.

Dude, that's hilarious. And then Shinya Yoki won it beating somebody. I forget. Who's got that Wham-A-Bell now? Who's got that bitch? Somebody has to Wham-A. Yeah, you have to find out now. Like, maybe we need to bring WAMA back. So whatever

became of Fedor Emelianenko's WAMA belt anyway? I do not know. Yeah, there's things that you wonder like a fighter's union, like, maybe. Is that going to work? You know, a sanctioned body outside of the UFC. It seems like the momentum is so

strong in the fact of the UFC being the dominant organization. It's like Q-tips. It's like that name. Cotton swab? Yeah. Oh, but there's the Q-tips. The NFL. Can I have a facial tissue? A what? A Kleenex. Come on, bitch. One of my pet peeves that I'll explain right

now that falls in line right with that. I hate with a passion, I hate explaining to people what I do for a living. Really? I fucking hate it. When I was with Bellator. Why? Oh, because you worked for Bellator. No, because what happened was, like, I'm in a cab leaving LAX.

And they go, hey, so where are you coming from? Oh, you know, Miami. What are you doing? Oh, God. Work. What kind of work do you do? Miami. What are you doing? Oh, God. Work. What kind of work do you do? I'm a commentator for mixed martial arts fights. And you just get a blank stare.

They just have no idea what you are talking about. And then you go, you know where they put people in a cage and they fight. And then they go, oh, UFC. No, no. I've got to explain that MMA is a sport. I've had this conversation 50 times. It's just, once again, if I say I need a cotton swab or I need to clean my ears with it, what?

I need a Q-tip. Okay, I got it. It's like that. Donald Trump's coming up with the XFL. He's re-bringing it. Re-bringing it. The XFL? Yep.

He used to have the XFL. Yeah. Now he's coming back with the XFL again. Is that what we're going to call it? Donald Trump. It was Vince McMahon, I'm kidding. Vince McMahon, yeah. Just joking around.

But didn't Donald Trump have something to do with the XFL? He did, right? But now Vince McMahon's going to... Vince McMahon, XFL. XFL return dream gets closer as WWE head Vince McMahon files to sell shares. You ever had any dealings with Vince McMahon? No. I'm a fan of that guy.

He's a character. Dude. Fun dude. Unbelievable. Jacked as fuck at 72. That's unreal. He's on all them steroids. 70 years old, just fucking super jacked.

One of the camera guys in Bellator is a guy named Bubba Dean who worked for- Good name. Yeah, great name. He worked for Vince for like 20 years. He was Vince's guy. This guy's stories. You guys... Come on, son.

He got all his teeth knocked out by Stone Cold Steve Austin while doing a shoot. Vince did? No, the camera guy. Oh. But he has these crazy stories of doing stuff and he got his teeth knocked out and all this stuff and all these crazy Vince stories. It's nuts. Vince is... That. It's nuts. Vince is nuts.

Remember when Vince blew his quad out? He jumped into the ring and slammed his muscle on the edge of the ring accidentally and just literally separated his fucking quad muscle from the bone and just sat there on his ass and kept going? Unbelievable. I mean, just that alone, man. Selling it like that? I mean, he couldn't even walk, dude.

And he's selling the whole thing. We talk to people behind the scenes about WWE and what goes into it. It's really incredible. Look how jacked he is. Jesus Christ. Jesus! That's nuts. He's so jacked.

That's the most jacked 70-year-old of all time. I've ever seen. Who's that fake Mark Coleman behind him? Who's that dude? That's the dude who gets him the juice. Goes straight to Mexico. That dude wears a prosthetic face and everything. Crosses the border.

I think at that age it's like anti-aging. It's legal anti-aging technology. Oh, let's be honest. He's on more than that. Oh, yes. He's on quite a bit. That's not normal stuff. He's going deep.

Fuck it. You're like Stallone. If you're going to do it, go hard. I mean, at 70, it's like, what are you? Why not? I always tell everybody, Stallone's my canary in a coal mine. Really? Yeah, I watch him.

You're just watching him. See how much he's taking. I want to find out how much he's taking. How much you taking, bro? How do you feel? You going to get road rage? Well, one of the things that I like How often do you snap bro About um Rising

And you know Is that That's promotion They can do whatever they want They don't give a fuck When you say I don't give a fuck They don't give a fuck I think of rising

Gabby weighed in I can't believe She's 26 pounds overweight I think it was 27 26 or 27 Please Japan Please Please

If I could beg of you anything Don't let Gabby Garcia Beat up Any more grandmas. It's crazy. They think it's funny that the biggest woman of all time beats up grandmas. You know what? No, I'm serious.

This is something I've talked to people about a lot. Old school fans of sport. Now that Pride's gone, Pride forever and Pride never died. I love Pride. Pride had some matches that made you go, what the fuck is going on here? They love that shit. Love free shows. It was for the Japanese audience.

So they would have weight classes, were suggestions. They didn't test anybody. They would throw anything. Experience level meant absolutely nothing. And remember Daijiro Matsui, of course. Sure. That guy, they loved watching that guy get beat up. He fought everybody and got smashed.

They loved watching Daijiro Matsui get his fucking face beat in. And they loved him. It's not like they didn't like him. There's something in the... They loved that shit. And I'll tell people, look, you know, Pride did have some great fights. It also had some fights that were crazy, ridiculous,

unbelievable mismatches. Yeah, the weight classes. I love that shit. I mean, their appreciation for a fighter's struggle was, if not more important than the fighter being victorious. It's like the fighter just being valiant in the face of overwhelming odds was almost more enjoyable to them. I liked Bushido more, because they just didn't pull that in Bushido.

They featured the lighter guys, and I don't remember in Bushido any fights. I was like, oh because they just didn't pull that in Bushido. They featured the lighter guys and I don't remember in Bushido any fights. I was like, oh my god. I think you're right. I like Bushido a bit more. It was great. They were all great. That was when Quadros and, was it Quadros and Boss were the commentators?

It was either Moro Quadros or Moro Boss. You know who I liked too? They only had one or two shots at it. That one guy who was a, he was like some sort of a radio sports guy. What the fuck is his name? Mad Dog or something like that?

God damn it. He only did it once. There was one guy. For Pride? Yeah. One guy who was the play-by-play guy with Boss Rootin' Once. He was fun.

He was kind of a silly guy, but a little out of his element. A little out of his element. Didn't necessarily... It's like we were talking about earlier. It's very difficult to find someone who's a play-by-play guy who is also a martial artist and also really, really invested in the sport. also a martial artist and also like really, really invested in the sport. Whereas a guy like you, a color guy, those guys, there's more chance that you're going to have a technical understanding of the sport and also be able to be entertaining about it.

Yeah. Whereas they just have to be entertaining about it and read the script. They don't necessarily, so it's super hard to find a guy who's as knowledgeable as you, but that is also a play-by-play guy. I always said Brian Stan should do it. Play-by-play. Play-by-play, and he could do either or, but it would be different because Brian Stan has, in my opinion, he has the voice and the personality and the delivery, the strength in the way he forms sentences in an entertaining but powerful

way. He could be a really good, believable play-by-play guy who's also super legit martial artist. So he'd be the only guy that's doing it that way. The problem with having a play-by-play guy who's too knowledgeable, they start

doing both of them, sitting there. And that's a problem when a guy's a freak fan or thinks they know a lot about sports, they start doing it. They start doing color as they're doing play-by-play. I think that's okay as long as everybody is aware. Not one person talks too much, and everybody kind of lets everybody get in. One of the things that I like to do when we have DC or when we have Dominic Cruz or whoever sits next to me sometimes, I like to ask them questions.

Like, I want to give them a position. Like, what do you like to do here? Like, how do you approach this? Like, what's your thought process here? Or, like, for DC, DC's, and Dominic was amazing, too, this weekend, about breaking down clinch work and what someone's doing wrong or why this is a stagnant position for them. Yeah. I think if you had a guy who is a play-by-play guy, just as long as he knows, as long as everybody's cool with everybody,

like everybody's flow. But that is one of the things that came in really well with me and Goldie because we'd worked together for so long. We were friends. We knew how to slide things in. We knew when to talk and when, you know, and sometimes we just talked over each other like some shit was happening. And, you know, but that's okay too. Yeah.

You know. I've gone through four. Four. In the last year. Wow. A year and a half. I did a few different guys back in the day. I did a few.

Hey, what the fuck? Cut that out of the show. Yeah, we can edit that out of the show. Yeah, we can edit that, right? Cool. I worked with a few different guys back in the day, but one of the guys that people forgot who was amazing was Bruce Beck. Bruce Beck? Yep.

I worked with him in boxing at PBC. He gave me really good advice for what you were talking about. It's difficult. Post-fight interviews. You know, he just gave me advice and, you know, having things to say and planning things out and, you know, how to, you know, how to word things. You know, I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. Matt Mitrione, when they hired him to do Bellator kickboxing,

we were in Turin, Italy. And Matt Mitrione, I think he was with Bruce Beck, actually, at that time. He hadn't flown out yet. So Matt Mitrione is there by himself has never done color commentary before and all the kickboxing fighters are showing up i've already done mma i wasn't doing kickboxing time i take matt and i go okay cool i'll walk you through this so i stayed and helped him interview all the kickboxing fighters and he's sitting there he's like needed some advice he'd never done this before and i said the only advice i gave him was

don't say anything my mom knows. If my mom's watching boxing and somebody's punched in the face, I turn to my mom and go, that guy just got punched in the face. My mom would go, yeah, I know that. I can see that.

My mom knows when someone's getting punched in the face. My mom doesn't know how the footwork set that right hand up. That's your job. It's not, that guy just got punched.

Oh, look at that. It's not fucking radio. They can see it. Okay? So your job as the expert is to the things that a layman or someone not experienced in sport doesn't quite know like footwork accommodations and stuff like that and i said stick to that i go just stick to filling in the gaps that your expertise will help fill in don't say all you know you don't say everything in the world and when everybody talks everybody loses that's how you have to think about he knows when to talk and i don't want to talk we don't have to say everything in the world. And when everybody talks, everybody loses.

That's how you have to think about it. He knows when to talk, and I don't want to talk. If we don't talk over each other, everybody loses. Yeah. When we talk over each other at the same time, we both sound like crap. So just know when – you'll get a feel for when to lay out and when to go in. But my number one advice was don't say anything that someone on the street could look at the TV and figure it out. That's very good advice. If someone at Buffalo Wild Wings can yell it at the TV,

why are you here? We don't need an expert. Anybody could say that. What do you fill in? It made him feel way better. I said, hey, look, just fill in the stuff that your average person wouldn't know. That's a very good game plan. That's very wise.

Very versatile. Yeah. Use its power for good. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I always tell guys. Don't say what my mom knows. So you get caught up in,

and there's a right hand, you don't have to call every, they can see that. Now, the hard part is, the grappling people, a lot of people are totally lost. We have to call a lot,

we have to fill in a lot more of that because it's just, But you also sometimes want to react to certain punches that get landed too. You just got to know when to, when not to. That develops, man. Yeah.

You just get a feeling for that, you know? Yeah, it's a weird thing that you're thinking of it, at least I am when I'm doing it, also for that Yeah it's a weird thing That you're thinking of it At least I am When I'm doing it Also it's like

It's a product Like you're contributing To a product You're like You're adding to it With sound And with description And with the entertainment value

Of the way you distribute Your words A good Broadcaster knows They're not tuning in for us Yeah We can make it better We certainly can

We certainly can We certainly can well definitely We're there to get out of our own way exactly fuck it up 100% We can also detract from a broadcast. You got to be careful that detracting is the worst Yeah, I mean, I know I think probably both but guilty that at some point. Yeah in any moment is not your free balling You know you're doing a live thing and live thing. And when you're anticipating things happening and they're happening or something's different than you thought was going to happen and you're trying to put the words to it correctly and in the moment, live on TV, it doesn't always work out. No, it doesn't. It works out a lot. And I beat myself up so bad, man.

When I make a mistake, man, I'm mad. Me too. Fucking until the next show. Yeah. But, and then I'll look sometimes and I'm like, nobody noticed it. I'm the one that's mad at myself. But that's why you're really good. Oh, man, I get mad.

That's why you're really good. Thank you. I appreciate that. Anybody who is really good at anything, you get that way because fucking up on it just seems horrible. You know, it just really messes with your head. Yeah. Fucking up on it just seems horrible. You know just really messes with your head. Yeah any that

I've just come to accept that weird feeling you know and use it and go alright Whatever that shit feeling is where I flub that word or forgot that guy's name or whatever it is And I am conflated the two people whatever it is get over it keep moving Just do your best and that feeling because of the fact that it I can't just blow it off i can't just be like who gives a shit i don't have that in me yeah i do not but that's why i try hard and that's why with every broadcast when i get through it and it's good i'm like okay we did you know i still get that i still get that juice man i still every time and's funny. I'm known for disappearing after a show. I'm known for that. For like the show's done and everybody goes, well, A, I don't drink.

So I'm out of that loop completely. What about your heroin use? You know, that's a home thing. I'm not going to bring it on a plane. Come on, dude. You're a rookie. Anyway, so, so anyway, I'm known for disappearing after a show because a show just takes a lot out of me.

Like everybody else is at the bar doing whatever and I go to my room and I just download. Dude, I'm fucking starving after shows. Or that. Yeah. And the problem is that a lot of times it's, you know, when I'm out in, in, in Thackerville or something or I'm out in like Mulvane, Kansas and you're at a smoky casino and there's one place to eat and a fight just let out and you're like,

oh my God. You know, it's like, a real decision I have to make a lot of times is, am I too hungry to sleep or am I too tired to eat? Which one of those am I?

I almost always choose sleep if I have to. I almost always choose sleep. I almost always choose sleep. But yeah, I just disappear. I just go to my hotel and crash out

because it's hard. It just takes a lot out of you. I bring stuff with me anywhere. I always bring choose sleep. I almost always choose sleep. But yeah, I just disappear. I just go to my hotel and crash out. Because it's hard. It just takes a lot out of you. I bring stuff with me anyway. I always bring protein bars. I bring canned oysters. I bring different things that I can eat that I know are healthy. I bring like a bunch of cans of canned oysters because it's like they're soaked in olive oil.

Super healthy. Bang a few cans of those out. Go to sleep. What is your family Italian? What's that? What is your family? Oh, nationality. Mostly Italian. A little bit of Irish. My family's Greek. My mom's out. Go to sleep. What is your family Italian? What's that? What is your family? Oh, nationality. Mostly Italian, a little bit of Irish.

My family's Greek. My mom's Greek. Oh, okay. Cool. The rest are German, Irish. So, yeah. Olive oil's a big part of the diet. Olive oil's the shit.

That is one of the best fucking things your body can take in. Olive oil's fantastic. And what a pain in the dick it is to make. Think about all the stuff they had to go through. Like, when you see, and I had an olive tree in my yard and the olives would fall down. These nasty little fucked up olives. I'm like, this is an olive? And they're like, oh yeah, there's a whole process to turn that into

olive you eat. I'm like, what? Like I thought an olive came from a tree like an olive. Like you could just pick it, like one of those green ones. No. I grew up in San Joaquin Valley. They had the whole thing set up there, man, until I was nine years old. A lot of olive stuff out there. Yeah.

A buddy of mine makes olive oil in his yard. He's got a shit ton of olive trees in his yard, and he set this whole thing up with the hopes of eventually making his own olive oil from his own yard. Okay. Good luck, dude. You can buy it in a store, you fuck. It takes much easier to buy it in a store. But big part of the diet growing up. Mom cooks a man it's phenomenal for you man you know it's funny

my my my mom had had cooked for the bellator crew before really they come over to her house and she she cooked for like the whole crew 25 people god damn my mom she's like a caterer she loves that shit wow she loves that shit anyway so literally you know my, my, my, I left Bellator and literally one of the people went, your mom, your mom will still cook for us. Right. I was like, dude, anytime, like, like we want mom in the divorce. And I was like, okay, cool. Mom, mom's okay with that. Mom loves everything. Bellator crew and they love my mother. So it was kind of funny. She had them all over for dinner. And so I hope they were really, really upset about my mom. I hope Bellator makes it.

And I say that with all due sincerity. Me too. 100%. Now that we're both not on Bellator. Yeah. Now that we're both not on Bellator. We can talk about this. Yeah.

It's like I always said this before. Maybe they're in competition with UFC, the corporate entity. But in my opinion, it was never that they were in competition with me. My thoughts are that they're valuable, that it's important, and that the more competition you have, the better. And then I also felt like having a guy like you out there who's doing commentary, who's kicking ass, makes me better. I know that you're really good at it. I listen to you very sharp. I listen to people, and I'm sure you're the same way, that they're uncomfortable or clunky doing commentary.

It makes for an awkward experience for me watching it. Yeah. But we listen to it a lot. I mean, I really listen with that ear because that's our job. Sure. You know, you really listen with that ear and, you know, you're probably overly critical. We are. Yeah. At least when we listen to our peers.

And, yeah, I do the same thing. Like, bad commentary can really, it's just kind of. If you get good at something. It's like a producer can hear things where you go, I don't even hear that. Sure. Something's a little off and just bugs them. Yeah. It's just clunky, you know, especially for someone who's called and seen as many fights

as you have. Your idea of what's clunky is like you're the data chunking that you're doing. This is very different. It's very much more high level than the average person. There's just not a lot of people doing it, which is weird. Ten years of it. Yeah. No.

More than ten. When did Bell to start? No, I was doing M1 before that. Who was the first? And I did Affliction, too. Those were both before Bellator. Was Jason Chambers the first Bellator guy? For the first year, he was the Bellator guy.

When it was on ESPN. ESPN Deportes. That's right. And it was just a web series in English. So you could just see it on the website in English. It was Anik and Jason Chambers. Holy shit. That's crazy.

Jason and I have lived weirdly parallel lives. Yeah, you guys both had that show. We both had that show. We fought each other. He was my last professional fight. He was the guy Bell tore before I was there. It's crazy. Yeah, it's really weird.

Yeah. It's really strange. Yeah, he was, you were on, what show was he on? I was on Fight Quest. He was on Human Weapon. You were on Fight Quest. Yeah. So, funny story, when I first got the call about Fight Quest, they said...

So, to go back a little bit further, I fought Jason in my last pro fight. And remember Jamie Walsh? Yeah. He was the promoter. Very well. He used to train me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He used to be my personal trainer.

Yeah. He taught me about kettlebells, that crazy Englishman. That crazy... He's one of John John's black belts, too. I mean, yeah, yeah. Great grappler. I mean, yeah, yeah. Great grappler. I grappled against him twice. Um,

anyway, so I was going to fight Jason at his promotion called Pangea. And he told me all about this show he was going on. He goes, man, if you beat this guy, man, he's going to be bad.

It'd be great for you. And I was like, and he described the show to me, you travel around and you do different martial arts. I was like, man, that's a great idea. And then I beat jason

with a reverse heel hook and you know how dangerous those are and jason really held out and and it tore pretty good and anyway a couple days later i get a call uh from i forget who and they said and they said yeah this they're doing this show and they you know give this producer a call in new york i said okay i called the producer and she described the show and she described the exact They're doing this show, and give this producer a call in New York. I said, okay. I called the producer, and she described the show, and she described the exact same show. And I went, oh, fuck. I heard him, and they're looking for a replacement. And I felt – because there's an unwritten rule in MMA that you can beat somebody up

and do whatever. You don't take food out of somebody else's mouth. You don't want to hurt somebody, and they can't fight for a year. It sucks. You know what I mean? We all fight, but when it's over, it's over. You don't want to injure somebody to where they can't make a living. That was also back in the day when heel hooks were shunned in jiu-jitsu a little bit.

This was an MMA fight. I know, but there was a stigma to heel hooks. There still was, yeah. But that's what I used, and I thought I injured him, and they were looking for a replacement. I was just like, oh my God. So it was like one of those deep impact Armageddon things. Yeah, exactly. 100%.

And so then I found out, and then I realized they were on different shows. And it was so funny, because people have said since then that I was chosen because I beat Jason. That's their assumption, which makes sense, but they had no idea. The producers of the show, once I got the gig and we're talking, they said, yeah, there's another show on History Channel. I went, yeah, I fought that guy. And they looked at me and they went, what? They go, yeah, I fought him like a month ago.

They literally, I'm serious, had no fucking clue. They had no idea. It's just so weird. They both came out exactly the same time. Yeah. They were out a few months before me. There hasn't been one of those shows since. There hasn't been one before.

It's like, what kind of weird shenanigans were going on back then? I didn't produce the thing, so I don't know where it came from. I have no idea. I'm not blaming you. It wasn't me. It wasn't me. It's okay. I didn't go, hey, I could take this idea.

But it's just weird to me that those shows become interesting and popular, and then they stop being. It's like someone tries it out, and they go, this is it. And the two companies are willing to invest in it. Two different channels are showing it. Remember this? This is a way back one. someone tries it out and they go this is it and the two companies are willing to invest in two different channels are showing it remember this this is a way back one in one summer

it was the Abyss Deep Space Nine and Leviathan were all these like underwater horror movies that came out in the same summer yeah

and then you haven't seen it's just I don't know why just like we were seeing with the asteroid movies Deep Impact and Armageddon both of them came out exactly the same time

because that was weird it was really strange. Yes. Fucking Hollywood's bizarre like that. It is. You find out like, I almost don't want to know. I don't want to know what kind of weird shenanigans where all three of you fuckheads are coming up with underwater horror movies.

Yeah, what's going on? I have no idea. It's like they find out that someone's doing it so they get a head on them. They try to release it first. There were two Battle of the Sexes movies Will Ferrell was supposed to play Bobby Riggs In a Battle of the Sexes Tennis movie When Steve Carell was doing the other one?

Yeah, and then they found out Steve Carell was doing one And they canned it That match happened in the 70s Yeah, that was in Billie Jean King? Billie Jean King Wow, that's crazy Billie Jean King? Billie Jean King. Wow. Went to my high school. Strangely enough. Powerful.

Powerful Billie Jean. Yeah. Anyway, but 40 years later, they make a movie and two studios want to do it at the same time?

It's fucking weird. And both with comedians. Yeah. Which is really weird. Oh, Bobby Riggs was that guy. Yeah, he's a character.

Yeah. Steve Carell's so goddamn good. He just knocked it out of the park. He was great playing that fucking creepy DuPont guy too. Dude, Johnny DuPont. Yeah. Team Fox guy's so goddamn good. He just knocked it out of the park. He was great playing that fucking creepy DuPont guy, too. Dude, Johnny DuPont. Yeah. Team Fox guy.

I remember when Dave Schultz got killed, what a huge deal that was. But it was just, he was so creepy playing him in the movie. It's like you bought it. You bought that he's some weird guy wrestling with these guys. He nailed DuPont, man. Teaching them and shit, and then just letting them do it. Yeah. Ooh, weird, weird, weird, weird. to pont man teaching them and shit and they're just like letting them do it like ooh weird

weird weird weird have you seen the documentary about it that shows all the real footage and everything I've seen I've seen some of the real footage

but I don't think I saw the documentary there's one 30 of 30 to one and then there's one on Netflix and I've seen both of them one is like more focused

on Mark Schultz the other one is the other story and man it's once again it's fucking creepy really out there yeah

wrestlers just had no outlet to make money back then and this billionaire says i'll put you up and make this amazing team and they jump on it and isn't it kind of stunning that wrestling never had a real actual professional not that there's anything wrong with pro wrestling but pro wrestling obviously is a show there's never been like you think about like how many people love wrestling how many wrestling fans there are how many people wrestle in high school and college like and how many people like to watch it in the olympics it was always a big deal like why didn't they ever figure out a way to make some sort of professional venue out of it remember they did remember real pro wrestling that's right yeah

they tried that and and usually you know it's funny i had i i used to teach i used to be a teacher and what i did before i was fighting. What did you teach? The longest I ever taught was, because I worked for Long Beach Unified School District. I did a bunch of stuff for them. So sometimes I would teach. Sometimes I'd do this testing stuff. The longest I ever taught was seventh grade math, which if there is a hell, that is where it is. How many years?

Seventh grade math, algebra. I only taught that. My mom's a teacher and the girl the lady two rooms down from her got sick or had some kind of breakdown and mom went can you please come in and teach for a year and i went okay cool because i made it easier on her i said all right fine so i ended up teaching so what'd you have to have a degree and a degree and a certification yeah okay yeah and i had both of those um so you'd already plan on teaching or you'd had it as a possible side gig i had a possible side gig?

I had a possible side gig. It was always what I was doing kind of while I was fighting. But anyway, I had a teacher tell me one time, he said, if there's a sign at the zoo that says, please don't throw tangerines at the elephants, it may not make any sense to you. All it means is one time somebody threw a tangerine at an elephant. Something really bad happened. And I thought about that a lot. Whenever you think about, you know, why is pro wrestling pro wrestling? Well, there was a time when it was real and it was too boring.

So they started scripting the endings to it. And so it became pro wrestling. You know, there were catch wrestling matches and they lasted three hours. It was like the old Gracie fights. They just lasted too long. Guys couldn't catch each other, and so they started scripting the innings. Real pro wrestling was an effort to make it work, and if it had made money, it'd still be around.

So it sucks, and I wish wrestlers even had more of an outlet than MMA. And wrestling itself has gotten bigger in terms of I went to my old high school to watch a duel meet, and back when I was there, we had like one varsity team, like half a JV team. They had varsity, JV, fresh off, and a women's team. Wow. Women's team. Full women's team. Wow.

Like a full, you know, whatever, I'm 14 weight classes right now. And you couldn't get anywhere near that when I was in school. Like it just wasn't that popular. Now MMA has made it huge. Like wrestling now i mean people really follow i mean you had to be a real geek to follow college wrestling you know well when you see a guy like miriam gamedoff smash edson barboza using essentially just wrestling yeah and vicious ground and pound you realize like okay like that is so fucking important to have it is the cornerstone

or it's the rather the foundation of mma yeah if of MMA. And I think that fight really highlighted it. It really showed the dominant, super dominant wrestler over the dominant striker. If the dominant wrestler can get a hold of the dominant striker, unless the striker's close. That's one of the things that was most impressive about Mirko, was that when Mirko started fighting for pride, his takedown defense got really good really quick. Yeah. What I liked about him so much when you watch him is not only was he a southpaw, he was so good with the range of his footwork that he never lost his distance while throwing.

He was always really good at picking you apart from long range so you were shooting from outside you were shooting from way far back he could see it coming his footwork set up his takedown defense so well yeah that dude was amazing yeah he also was very powerful so his explosion was a big part of his fight style when he was a kickboxer so unlike maybe peter er or Ernesto Hust, who had more of a methodical, technical style of striking, Krokop would throw those one big shots all the time. And that really works well in MMA.

And he was able to use that explosion, that fucking left high kick, and the one to the body that he hit Heath Herring with. You remember that shot? Collapsed him. Well, you see Heath Herring's body just wrapped around cro-cop's leg yeah like whoa you just realize the amount of power in that fucking kick and herring's taking it right on the rib cage the worst now the the the thing to me is when you

watch what i tell people i said when you watch chuck liddell's three fights against randy the third one against randy r Randy is just shook by that power. He's felt it before. And that kind of, you know, bull in a china shop, Greco style to get inside, it's not there. He's just thinking about that power shot the whole time. And that's what a power striker does against a wrestler. He gives you that kind of barrier of to take me down,

you've got to get through here. And here is fucking dangerous. And I think Khababib what he knew is long range is dangerous against edson so if i keep moving forward i keep putting pressure on him and take away that spinning range he's not going to knock me out with his hands and that's why he was pushing forward so incredibly hard as he didn't worry about that second wall it really didn't concern him yeah and chuck would make you fight him because Chuck was a very good wrestler himself. The thing that made Chuck so unique is that Chuck was a striker, you know,

hackleman train, kempo, karate, all that stuff, in a traditional sense, but also had very good boxing skills and serious fucking power in his hands and kicks. But he also knew how to wrestle, so good luck taking him down. So now you're forced to stand up with this long, powerful striker who has an iron chin and just had this psychotic desire to move forward and land bombs. Yeah, he wrestled it slow. Yeah, he was, and that's where Hackleman's place is still up there in San Luis Obispo. He was something interesting because he was one of the very first wrestlers that was a feared striker.

Yeah. So he had the wrestling skills, great takedown defense, very good at getting back up off the ground when he got down to the ground, but also destroyer on his feet. Yeah. So that's the kind of guy that we're going to need to test Khabib. We're going to need a guy who can keep the fight standing, who can test Khabib on the feet. Some guy who's going to be able to stuff some of those takedowns. Those guys don't come around often. Well, not with him.

When you see what he did to RDA, he ragdolled Dos Anjos, which is crazy. I mean, I do not know. There's a timeline of Dos Anjos' dominance, right? That's a strong 70. Dos Anjos is a strong 70. But this was a different time in Dos Anjos' training, and I think Dos Anjos made some giant leaps when he started doing strength and conditioning with Nick Curzon.

He started doing, he just had way more output inside the cage. But the crazy thing was that Dos Anjos is one of the best grapplers in the division. And you see what he was able to do with Neil Magny. Leg kicks, Neil Magny gets to the ground, smushes him. His fucking ground game is really legit. So to see him get ragdolled by Khabib,

you're like, how's he doing that to RDA? You know? It's nuts. At 55. Yeah. Yeah.

He's something special. So, it's like, who is left at 55, especially now that Dos Anjos has moved on successfully to 170? Who the fuck is left that's going to be able to keep the fight standing? That's the tough part.

I don't think there are many answers. I really don't. I don't know either, man. I think they've got to put together the Ferguson fight pretty quickly. I mean, in a reasonable amount of time, because it's a big fight. That's the fight. That's the fight. The question is, is it going to be for the title?

Is it going to be Ferguson and Conor get stripped and Ferguson and Khabib fight for the undisputed title? Because they'll just make Ferguson the undisputed champion if Conor gets stripped, which I don't think is a bad thing. No. Look, Conor's still fucking Conor. If Conor comes back a year from now, he's still Conor. Huge.

Doesn't matter. He's still fighting probably for the title right away. Everybody's going to want it. Everybody's going to want the pay-per-view money that comes with Huge. Doesn't matter. He's still fighting probably for the title right away. Everybody's going to want it. Everybody's going to want the pay-per-view money that comes with it. Hop on board. But Tony versus Khabib is very interesting. Yeah. Very interesting.

Khabib is a guy you have to get his respect. Yeah. You have to give him a reason to back up. Tony knows how to fight off his back very good. Yeah. Very dangerous off his back. Not just dangerous off his back in terms of submissions, but very good defensively off his back.

You know, he's got really good composure, very good wrestler. His chokes are fucking nasty, man. He catches chokes from weird angles. You know, he's good at sweeping you. He's legit. He's a legit champ, but that's the fight. Yep. That's the fight.

Anything else is the fans are going to be calling for Khabib. Yeah, it's just what do you do, though? Like, what do you do and how do you do it? Do you strip Conor? That's always the question, man. Because if Conor's like, fuck it, I want to fight Tony in Dublin. If he decides to come back and fight Tony and then the winner fights Khabib in Russia, the world explodes.

That would be huge. That would be the biggest thing. That would be fantastic. The winner fights Khabib in Russia for the world explodes. That would be huge. That would be the biggest thing. That would be fantastic. The winner fights Khabib in Russia for the undisputed title. You ever call a fight in Russia? No, but Khabib's going to ride a bear out to the cage. He's a gangster, man. Put a cage over the bear's face.

It's literally gangster. It's a mobbed up place. Is it? That's fun there, yeah. How many times did you? I think four. For Bellator? No, when I was with M1, they were running out of Russia.

Oh, that's right. Yeah. So I did St. Petersburg, and then I did Rostov-on-Don. Did you enjoy it? Oh, man, I had a great time. Yeah? Yeah. How's the food over there?

Food's good. I don't like the way you said good. No, the food's good. The food's good. It's not like you're not known for it. All right, so I got to tell a story. We're on this ship in the Neva River, and it's owned by one of the guys who runs M1. And, yeah, so we're on this ship in the Neva River, and's owned by one of the guys who runs M1. And yeah,

so we're on this ship in the Neva River and it's got a restaurant on it and we're sitting there and Sean, we like my old broadcast partner, he's very persnicky about his food. He's persnicky about a lot of stuff.

And we're sitting there with our boss and everything and the guy who runs this ship of this big heavy in St. Petersburg who's affiliated with M1 serves us this borscht, which is like a beet stew, basically. And he goes, man, we're really proud of our borscht. It's a big deal here.

And, oh, we hope you enjoy it. It's a point of honor for us. And he walks away. And Wheelock looks at the bowl and goes, I'm not eating this. I don't like it. And our boss goes, you will fucking eat it right now. Like a seven-year-old. You will eat this right now. You will fucking eat it. And he's like, no, I'm not eating this. I don't like it. And our boss goes, you will fucking eat it right now. Like a seven-year-old. You will eat this right now. You will fucking eat it. And he's like, no, I'm not eating. Folded his arms.

I'm not eating. No way. I eat so fast. White people. I eat so fast that I already ate it. I like borscht. So I just ate it. And I set my thing down. The guy who was all proud of his borscht turns around and is heading back to us and my boss

looks at me goes points to Sean's food and I grabbed it and I drank an entire bowl of that shit and threw it down before the guy came back and he saw that we oh thank you so much Sean was just refusing to touch it persnickety is a nice word persnickety I like how you use that that's a good selective amount but it's a nice way like nobody can get mad Yeah, it wasn't like he was like yeah Persnickety yeah, you're not saying they're a Complaining bitch. No

I didn't think you would I know there's been some talk about doing a UFC in Russia And I think a lot of it is probably based on the idea that Khabib at 25 and 0 is most likely somewhere along the line going to fight for the title. I mean, if everything continues to go well, as long as there's no injuries or something. Especially now that he can make the weight. Like, he made the weight pretty easy. Yeah, it didn't look bad.

Not at all. That would be a huge fight. Fucking A. You have enough Russian talent that, you know, it would work well. Oh, just from Dagestan alone, you could fill the whole roster. Yeah. Dagestan versus the world. You really could.

You almost could. We had a fighter in Belator, Shabalat Shamalayev, ended up getting shot like five times in Dagestan. Jesus Christ. He lived. He lived. He went after some gangster with a gun or something in a club and he got like torn apart.

It's crazy, man. It's a tough world. We're so soft over here. Sean Wheelock need to go camping over there for a little while. Dude. Like, you know,

the wrestlers in Chechnya are amazing. Saitiev brothers are the greatest ever. Well, fuck, man. If you grew up in Chechnya and it's like either be a stand-up wrestler

or, I don't know, pick up a gun and be a gangster. Dude's amazing. Yeah. It's interesting to see a guy from that really hard part of the world coming over and just dominating in MMA. With Khabib, you know that a lot of it is technique. A lot of it is being trained by his father. A lot of it is iron sharpens iron. He's at AKA. Yeah. He's wrestling with big big giant guys that are really skillful all the time it's an amazing

roster over there but a lot of it is this fucking mental toughness that he must have picked up some of that from being in dagestan yeah just has to it's true i mean the russian fighters that i have i've dealt with like you can know them and call a ton of fights with them and they'll still kind of look at you like they want to fight you or something. You're like, you know, I know. Hey, how's it going? And then they kind of like break character. Like, hey, how are you doing?

But there's always this wall you've got to get through almost every time. You know, one of the great fighters. That Korshkov guy, that guy's a fucking beast. Oh, monster. That guy's a beast. That was one of the most impressive Lima fights too. When he put that guy to sleep, I was like, whoa. Yeah, that left hook.

But it was leg kicks that set it up. He was kicking the shit out of that leg. And I think Korshkov went like, I got to trade now. I got to get this guy out of here. And, you know, it's not going to work. And Korshkov, in my opinion, in a lot of ways, was one of the first guys to validate Bellator's 170-pound division from the performance he put against Henderson.

Like, he shut Henderson down and beat him up. Teed off on him. And let him know, like, this is, I'm a real welterweight. And then Lima made him look like maybe he's not. Maybe Lima, that's a real welterweight. He's a lot bigger. He looked bigger. Yeah, way bigger.

And then it's one of those things where there was a big disparity between what people within the organization and what people out of the organization thought. A lot of people thought Henderson was going to come in and clean house and have two belts. But there's one jinx that I have seen more than any other. If you're listening, fighters, this is to you. Don't talk about two belts before you have one belt.

Ooh, that is the jinx. Have you never? Dude, am I wrong? Brandon Vera was talking about that. Brandon Vera, I'm going to be a two belt champion. He didn't win one belt. Henderson talked about winning two belts. He didn't win one belt. Vincent Henderson talked about winning two belts. He didn't win one belt.

Yeah. You know? Talking about two belts before you've won one belt is a huge jinx. Don't ever do that. I've never seen it be good. I've seen it a couple other times. And it's never worked out. When he left the UFC, he was one of the best guys in the division.

And he got one and three. This 170-pound weight class was just not right for him with a big guy like Korshkov. Yeah. And it would have been more prominent if it was against Lima. Did you see their weigh-in? Yeah. Big difference. It's one of those things where you think about if a guy has trouble making 55, well, he's

a 70. Right. No, no, he's not. He's not. He just needs to figure it out. There's a huge difference like a big 55er and a natural 70 they are not in the same class and korshkov looked like a giant compared well the difference is lima's just not gonna fucking make 55 it's just not it's not in his dna if you

can make the weight yeah make the way make the way yeah i know yeah it's uh boy it's one of the most unfortunate parts of the sport it's like the if the cut isn't tough, then you shouldn't be there, almost. If you could make it easily, it's tough, man. As long as it doesn't drain you, because everybody's different too, right, in their response to dehydration. But Andy Foster, what he's done in California by instituting a bunch of new weight classes, I really hope that people follow suit. I really do. I really hope there's one every 10 pounds.

I just think giving people more options is going to—there's some fighters that are just on the cusp where it's just dangerous. And then maybe if they fought – like Dos Anjos goes up to 70. But that's a 55 to 70, 15-pound jump. That's a lot of weight, man. Yeah. 50% more than if it was just 10. And I think 10 is the move. I feel like every 10, you're not watering it down too much.

You're making it reasonable. Just bang everything down to fives. 55, 65, 75, 85, probably 95, 205, 225 heavyweight. So we were having a discussion with this, once again, boxing. I was talking to Steve Farhood. And I said, when they initially weren't that many weight class in boxing, they ended up adding a bunch of them. I said, when they initially added those, were they seen as secondary weight classes?

And he went, yeah. Yeah. It took years until 155 got any respect. It was considered people who couldn't hang at welterweight. How about cruiserweight? Cruiserweight never got respect. Cruiserweight never gets respect. When Holyfield fought Dwight Muhammad Kawee,

that was the first time anybody gave a fuck about cruiserweight. Yep. And who else was cruiserweight? Who the fuck else was there? Dwight Muhammad Kawee. That was the first time anybody gave a fuck about cruiserweight. Yep. And who else was cruiserweight? Like, who the fuck else was there? Dwight Muhammad Kawee. Cruiser? Was Saad Muhammad a light heavyweight? Jean Pascal was.

Who else? Michael Moore? Did he stop at cruiserweight? I think he went from light heavyweight to heavyweight. I think he did, too. He did. He didn't stop at cruiserweight. It's just been one of those weird weight classes.

Like, why not? Aaron Pryor. Fucking monstrous fighter, but he fought at 40 right and just other than the alexis arg whale fight there weren't many stars at 40 you've got to go to 47 to get paid there's a reason you know everybody talks about oh floyd can't knock anybody out floyd's like a fucking 35 or he's really a lightweight if you've ever met him he's not a big dude right he had to go to 47 to get the big money fights that's why you know ro. Right. He had to go to 47 to get the big money fights. That's why Roberto Duran went from 35 to 47, because he just couldn't make money at 35. Yeah, guys get tired of making the weight class, but they also realize you've got to chase the cash. They go where the money is.

They've got a certain amount of time. Terrence Crawford moving up. Yeah. That's the problem. It's very hard in MMA or any combat sport. 47's kind of your limit. Below 47, they've had some great fighters. It's hard to build interest below 47 or 45 in MMA.

Boxing's had the same problem. So what happens? People keep coming up. So if you added a bunch of weight classes, guys who won it at 160 for a while would be seen as, oh, the guys who couldn't make it at 55 and 70. So it would take a while, maybe a star star in that division before it would become a legit division That would be the problem be a lag of a few years when you go all the 180 pound champ is just the guy who couldn't Make can do it at 70. It's almost like there's a lot too many Fighters now and too many events. It's almost like you couldn't have enough UFC events You would literally have to have UFC fights every week

Yeah Like maybe that would be the future model where they have fights every week on television and then they have pay-per-views like rarely, like every four weeks or something like that. It would take a lot to fill up. Or six weeks. Four or five extra divisions. That'd be tough. Yeah.

You know, it's hard to fill up the ones you have depending on how you look at it. Yeah, it would be. But I mean, man, I don't know. I mean, I never get tired of watching fights. If they had fights on every week, I wouldn't be. I mean, I never get tired of watching fights. If they had fights on every week, I wouldn't be complaining. It's just I wonder whether or not it's sustainable. Yeah, that's the hard part.

That's the hard part. That's always been the hard part. So I went to see something that is, Novitski's on tomorrow, right? Jeff Novitski from, formerly of USADA. Yes. Now working for the UFC. Took me to the UFC Performance Institute this week Holy fucking shit, man. That place is insane. I don't know how much money they spent on that, but it's just like

This is like some science lab for training fighters I mean everything you could imagine they have in this giant ass bill I've heard every fighter on the roster can go there anytime they want they have they feed them They take care of them in the cafe. They make them healthy food. They have all these different things that monitor your body composition, your hydration levels, all these different modalities for healing and recovery. Everything.

You fucking name it, they have it. It was super impressive. Super impressive. They have all these video systems that are around the octagon constantly. They're monitoring, sparring from a bunch of different angles. They can get 3D video of it. They can rotate it. They can watch you spar from any angle.

Your coaches could point out little weird things that you might be doing that you're not aware of. But pointed out, they always have the angle. They get every single angle. It's amazing. They have a thing there, like these punch registers. Yeah. Like the video game, except much more scientific. Yeah. Here have a thing there that like these punch registers, you know. Yeah. Like the video game except much more scientific. Yeah.

Here's a little trivia. You know, I was told is the number one pound for pound puncher. Francis Ngannou. By weight class. No, by weight class. By weight class. By weight class. Like pound for pound.

Justin Gaethje. Really? That's what I was told. Damn. Yeah. That's impressive. Forrest Griffin told me that. I wonder how many people have punched it though.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. This is what I was told impressive Forrest Griffin told me that I wonder how many people Punched it though I don't know I don't know I don't know This is what I was told By Forrest Griffin Well he certainly Punches hard as fuck There's no doubt about it Pound for pound

I believe it Pound for pound Yeah I mean Ngannou just Punches harder than anybody Period Blew it out of the water By some insane amount of

Thousands of pounds A square inch They said he's like Getting hit by Whatever he hits He destroys bro They said he's like getting hit by a- Fucking Drago shit. Whatever he hits, he destroys, bro. They said he's like getting hit by an escort, like a Ford escort.

That's what it's like. Yeah. I thought of a totally different escort for a second. Yeah, there it is. They got a video of it, of him hitting this thing. That's Duncan French. Boom. So they have him do this thing, and they had this limit before, or this record before that actually I think was set by Tyrone Spong.

No surprise there. He's an interesting fucking character, Francis Ngannou. You want to talk about a guy that is literally right out of an author's pen. Really? You're going to have a guy who, you know, like Robert E. Howard when he used to write the Conan books. He used to work in a sand mine. He used to dig sand when he was a

young man. You know how much fucking hard work it is digging into sand every day and carrying it away and just getting stronger and stronger. It's literally like when Conan was trapped in the wheel. And then he was homeless five years ago. Moves to

Paris. Wants to try boxing. Someone sees him in a gym and goes, hey, you should be in MMA. And he's like, okay. So he goes into MMA. Goes to the UFC. In two years, he's fighting for the title and he's a big favorite over the champion. If the champion

wins, breaks the longest running title fight streak, winning title fights in the heavyweight division, which is only two. It's a great story. It's an amazing story. It's a fantastic story. Five years ago, homeless. That's nuts. Yeah.

It's like, you know, Henry Armstrong was working on a railroad. Saw a newspaper article about a guy winning a fight and said, fuck this railroad shit, and went and started boxing. Came one of the greatest of all time. Yeah, or when Jack Johnson first became the heavyweight champion. I mean, everybody kind of knew. You saw Jack Johnson like, oh my God, these guys are fucked. Yeah, it's all downhill from here.

Yeah. Yeah, him versus Stipe is very, very interesting. I want to see if Stipe can figure out a way to avoid the big shots, close the distance, get a hold of him, and if he can take him to the ground. Here's my advice for anybody calling that fight, you included. I would look at everything but power in terms of who's got the better footwork, who's moving their head a little bit more, who's got a little more defense, because, man, that's going to be, I think, tell the story as one who avoids getting hit.

Because they're both, they can both knock you the fuck out they both can they can knock you the fuck out but Francis does it in a weirder way yeah he does

he does it in a like superhuman way where you're like we see the angle of his punches it's like he's trying to rip your soul out of your body man

the Alistair left hook uppercut combination punch that shovel hook was just one of the most terrifying things

I've ever seen anybody get hit with in all my years of calling sports. Looked like a Pez dispenser. Boom. Head all the way back. The photo is so crazy. It's almost like a really bad action movie where the guy who's rising through the ranks is just blasting everybody in the orbit. You, you go to sleep. Even talks like those people.

It's crazy. Yeah. Every now and then you get a story like that. It seems like it's like Adam. Like Justin Wren. That story is just ridiculous, man. No. It's crazy. Yeah. Every now and then you get a story like that. It seems like it's like Adam, like Justin Ren. That story is just ridiculous, man. Yeah. No, he's amazing. You know?

The other thing about Ngannou is the way he trash talks is hilarious. Like Stipe said he's not intimidated by any man. And Francis goes, don't lie, Stipe. Don't lie. He's so calm with it, and it's so fucking terrifying. He was doing a press conference with Alistair. It was, like, Thursday before Saturday's fight. They're facing off, wearing their suits.

And Francis goes, Saturday night you go to sleep. Saturday night you sleep. And you're like, oh oh no that trash talking bothers me he's so confident about it too and he was right oh but like rory's like that like yeah i will take the belt yeah and i will take your health yeah yeah and i'm holding the mic like okay i want to hurt him so bad that he goes to the hospital and never wants to fight me again. And you go, okay. He's not talking shit either. Sometimes people talk shit and they're just trying to put up a bluff.

There's some even great fighters who said some shit they might have believed at the time. Like when BJ was saying to George St. Pierre, George, we're going to fight to the death. And I'm serious, George. I'm going to try to kill you. Remember that? Yeah. I remember it well. Yeah.

But it didn't work out that way. It did not work out that way at all. It did not work out that way. He might have believed it when he was saying it. But, man, when you're in that dark, dark moment. Yeah. Big-ass French-Canadian dropping knuckles in your saying it. But, man, when you're in that dark, dark moment, big-ass French-Canadian dropping knuckles in your face. Different world, man. Yeah.

That was another one where you're like, there's a big difference between a big 55-er and a real 70, dude, because he put it on him that night. Well, he was so fucking strong, and George was in his prime back then. And he also was a really good guy, and he was very motivated by BJ's talking shit to him. It really pissed him off because he's a nice guy. I mean, the best way to fight a guy like George is be respectful.

If he's going to kick your ass, he's going to kick your ass anyway. Yeah, it's not like you give him extra ass-whooping motivation. I think he had a little extra ass-whooping motivation for Bisping, though. I really do. Bisping talked so much shit to him that when he got his back, he's like, you're going to sleep, my friend. Put it on him, man. Put it on him.

Put it on him standing up, too, man. Just starting to wear down, too. Just when I thought, man, maybe the tights are on. Because Bisping, his whole thing is he's not a particularly hard puncher. His wrestling isn't great. It's he wears you the fuck down. Not a big 185-er at all. It's just he wears you the fuck down. He was also particularly effective off of. No. It's just he wears you the fuck down.

He was also particularly effective off of his back with elbows. He was. I was impressed with that. Cut George up with those elbows off his back. That made it a real problem because George was having a hard time seeing him. That blood was everywhere. What a good fight. I kind of like the story of George just retires. It doesn't bother me.

Yeah. I like it. I like it. He bucked it. He bucked it. Everybody who doubted him came back one by finish. It's like, yeah, take it easy.. I like it. I like it. He bucked it. Everybody who doubted him came back one by finish like, yeah, take it easy. Now I'm out.

Now I'm seriously out. No, really. This time I mean it. Yeah. Or he comes back in a year and 155. Then what's... Whitaker Rockhold for the title? Yeah, man. I like that a lot. I like that fight a lot. That's a dangerous ass fight for both guys. You ever train with Jacare? No, never. I like that a lot. I like that fight a lot. That's a dangerous

ass fight for both guys. You ever train with Jacare? No, never. Dude, he was one of the first guys when I was a blue belt. He came by and he was

getting ready for Pan Ams and this was back when he was like, when he beat Hozier at Worlds, broke his arm and still won. Yeah, that was insane. Yeah.

That was insane. He would not tap. Wouldn't tap. Wrote it out. They changed the rules after that, you know that. Really? Yeah.

Because Jacare literally stuck his... For people who are listening and don't know about it, Holder Gracie broke Jacare's arm in the absolute division in the world's... 2005? 2006? 2004? Around there. Mid-2000s.

Snapped it. Snapped it. Good. But Jacare gets out. So he breaks it, but he steps over the head and gets out. Jacare stands up, and Holder looks at the referee and goes I broke his arm and Jacare takes his broken arm stuffs it in his belt and wins the match because he was already ahead he just kind of like yeah you know stalled out for like two minutes and won the fucking match against the

greatest of all time with a broken arm so I trained with him at that point he was like in beast mode it was unbelievable it's like being in a washing machine he's the only way i can describe it because once he grabs you it's like you're he just flings you like your head you see your feet fly into the ceiling it's crazy now there it is man yeah i remember this man i remember it he just snapped that fucking arm pulls it out and it is look at his left arm. It is just. Just jacked. Done, man. And he went out of bounds. Right. And then he gets up.

And Hojer at some point, I think right there, tells the referee, his arm's broken. That's it. And Jacare stuffs his broken arm in his belt and he's fighting. But just beastly. He did a seminar at our place, and at the end, he fought everybody in the room. There were like 60 people there. Wow.

And he fought everybody, tapped everybody out. Yeah, in his prime, in particular in jiu-jitsu, he was unbelievably good. And in MMA, probably one of the best jiu-jitsu guys ever. Did he really? Beat Hojer, beat Verdum. Wow. He beat everybody. He beat Ted A. He's one of my favorites.

I saw him live in Abu Dhabi, too, in like 2003. Yep. He lost to Salo that year, but he made it to the finals. He beat Haiyan Gracie, and then he beat Ricardo Almeida, and then he lost to Salo. I remember that Haiyan Gracie fight. That was amazing. Man, he was all over Haiyan.

The Salo fight was amazing, too. Yeah, he was all over Haiyan. Salo's another guy that people forget about. I love that guy. Oh, he was all over high. The Salo fight was amazing too. Yeah, he was all over high. Salo's another guy that people forget about. I love that guy. Oh, my God. Love him. Him and his brother, John G., that fucking smash style of jiu-jitsu. Old school style.

That's where I'm from. That's kind of like my, you know, I'm a Carlson guy. And, you know, my instructor's a guy named Hideo. And he's always telling me, he goes, Jimmy, he always, that was just the old people metaphors. He's like, Jimmy, he's like, he goes, then Mario, pass your guard, Jimmy. You finish. It's over for you. Like, don't, like, so he's's like, Jimmy, he's like, he goes, then Mario pass your guard, Jimmy, you finish. It's over for you.

Like, don't. Like, so he's always like, Jimmy, Alan Goles mount you, Jimmy? You fucking dumb, bro. Yeah, he's got those old school names in his head. Bro, you fucking dumb, man. Ricardo Laborio take your bat? Porra, Jimmy, you finish.

That's always. That's a guy that people sleep on is Laborio. Laborio, from what I have heard, and obviously this is even before my time, competitively he was the guy in the 90s. Like people who were around in that era, like who was the guy? They're like, Ricardo Laboreo was the guy. He took a world to the first year it happened.

It's interesting that these guys are still around, still coaching MMA fighters, still in the mix of the sport. They have to be. Yeah. still coaching MMA fighters, still in the mix of the sport. They have to be. When you look at Dede Pindenares, Ricardo Laborio, both from the same team.

Both Carlson guys. A lot of Carlson guys. A lot of Carlson guys. Sperry, Merlo Bustamante, Carlos Bejeto. You think about it, that was the first Gracie team that had a real MMA team. So those guys spread out and created so many teams. Vitor. A huge Vitor. Yeah. So what guys spread out and created so many teams. Vitor. A huge Vitor.

Yeah. So what happens now with Jimmy Smith? Jimmy Smith sits back until Jimmy Smith can make some sort of announcement. Yes, that is what Jimmy Smith does. Jimmy Smith's got some pieces in motion though. I have pieces in motion. Maybe not. Maybe we're just bullshitting you folks. Could be. Maybe. I'm working in Jamba Juice next

week. But you fucked up, Bellator. I'm telling you, you fucked up. Straight from Joe Rogan's mouth. You made a mistake. Well, you'll know. We'll do this more often, my brother. I know. Dude, anytime, man. You're an LA guy. I'm an LA guy. It took me 20 minutes to drop a kickball. There's a ton of fights to talk about. We'll definitely do this more often. Anytime, man.

I wish we could say more things, folks, but you're gonna figure it out. Yeah, you will. Jimmy Smith MMA on Twitter and on Instagram. And I hope we work together, my friend. Always a pleasure, my brother. Thank you very much, very much. And we'll be back tomorrow with the Golden Snitch, Jeff Nowitzki, and more. Bye.