The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #89 with Rafael Lovato Jr.

Episode Date: January 29, 2020

Joe sits down with Bellator Middleweight World Champion Rafael Lovato Jr.

Three, two, all right. What's up? How are you, brother? I'm doing great. It's great to be back. Great to see you, man. Congratulations on winning the title. Appreciate that.

Fantastic achievement. I mean, beating Gegard Mousasi, who's top flight, one of the best in the sport for sure, and to beat him and win the Bellator middleweight title, that's got to make you feel happy. It was surreal. It was something else. And when you hear the story about everything um man it takes it to another level yeah well this is why you're here um we're here to talk about that um and why don't just i guess you should probably just explain what's going on

well um i guess i'll just kind of take you through the, the order of events here. Um, you know, uh, that was my 10th fight fighting for the Bellator title and, uh, and all my other nine fights previously, it was never required for me to get a brain scan done. Um, just due to the, to the different states that I was fighting in at the time, the commissions there didn't require it. In the US, it's California and New York, and then Europe requires a brain scan. We were originally scheduled to fight in January at the forum in California, the same event that just happened this past Saturday night. And so we were going to fight 2019 at the forum in January. And that fight got postponed.

Musashi was injured. And we eventually got rescheduled to fight in June in London. So I already had a brain scan scheduled for December to get approved for that fight in January. But I got the news about the fight getting canceled like the week of that scan a couple days before. So I canceled it. I said, I don't need to go get that done now. And so fast forward, you know, I basically stayed in camp the whole year training, you know, with that fight on my mind all the way from November when I started the first camp for the fight in January, you know, into the new year waiting for the new date. And it was March that I got the word that we were going to fight in June in London.

And so, you know, I was basically training all year and I just picked right back up into camp. And fast forward on into the very beginning of May. I was, you know, already a good month into like the serious camp. And I was just getting ready to fly to Brazil, Curitiba, to get into the, you know, the hardest phase of camp. I was going to be there for three weeks. And I had to get my MRI done, you know, and I wanted to get it done before I went to Brazil just to check it off the list. So this was actually the week I had two good buddies of mine, Jake Mapes and Sam Alvey were in Oklahoma training with me. And we had a great week of training. Everything's going really, really well.

And it's Thursday. And so I go get my brain scan done to get that done before I went to Brazil. And I'm in there and we get through the whole process and the machine is done. It's not operating anymore, but they haven't called me out of the room yet. And I could kind of just sense something was going on. Um, so finally they say, okay, come on out. And the radiologist with really no, like no, uh, candor or, or like, like an easy, soft way of saying it was like, or like, like an easy, soft way of saying it was like, dude, uh, have you seen your brain before? Um, there's some stuff in here you need to see. And he, you know, pulls me into the room and shows me on the, on the screen. He's like pointing out these, um, you know, look like little balls. Um, uh, obviously it looked like something was wrong. It didn't look like a normal scan, but I'm not, I don't know, you know, balls like, like shades of, of, um, you know,

discoloration, like according to the scan itself, like you could see that, you know, it wasn't normal. Um, and he didn't even know what it was at the time. And he was like, uh, let me, let me look this over tonight. Uh, and I had my paper, you know, to get signed off that everything looks clear and normal. And, you know, and he was just like, you know, he asked me if I had any concussions and, um, if I've had any issues. And I said, no, no. And he's like, well, this doesn't look right. And you shouldn't be doing what you're doing. I'm like, okay, so are you going to sign this paper? And he's like, no.

And he's like, come back tomorrow and I'm going to give you some more information. I said, okay. So I go back Friday and he tells me that, you know, he did some research and he believes that I have a disease called cavernoma. And, you know, he kind of hits me with that. Um, I had no idea what cavernoma was. Um, and you know, he says, look, I'm not signing this paper. Um, you need to go see a specialist and get this looked at. But as far as I know, you should not fight, you know, you should not be fighting. And then the next morning I fly to Brazil, um, for my camp, you know, to, to go down there for the, the hard sparring and everything that I like to do, you know, stuff

we talked about last time. And so I'm like going, I'm, I'm, you know, in the airport, getting ready to go to Brazil for this portion of my camp for this fight that is like the biggest fight of my life. You know, I've already waited an extra six months for it. I've been training for it all year. And at this point, I'm like just in shock of what is going on, my health. And, you know, so I'm like Googling everything that I can about cavernoma and trying to, to understand what it is. And basically it's a disease where probably like, I probably got it from one of my parents. It's a, it's normally a hereditary disease

and your brain, um, forms these extra blood vessels, um, And these blood vessels grow and they can accumulate and sort of bundle up together into balls, almost like weeds or vines. They wrap up together. And these blood vessels are very prone to bleeding. Now, they don't bleed so much in a instance where, you know, they could cause a hemorrhage. It's more like a slow, they use the term oozing effect. So it oozes blood out over time. Very little, little by little. And as they accumulate, you know, those balls are much more susceptible to bleeding. And reading about it while I'm getting ready to go, I'm flying to Brazil. I'm in the airport. I'm taking off.

There's so many extreme cases of this disease where people have to have multiple surgeries to get them removed, seizures, vision issues, people go into comas, and then, of course, worst, worst case is even death. and you know obviously googling and you know not talking to a specialist and just kind of doing my own thing is not the best way to to get in for information and so i just have all these thoughts running in my head about you know what i'm dealing with in my health and like okay uh now i'm going to you know brazil to you know train and spar, and I have this fight and I'm right now, I don't have anyone signing off on this paper, you know, is this going to happen? What's going on? Like all these questions. And, um, so I get there and, you know, at this point, the only one that knows is, um, my girl, you know, and I'm confiding in her and I'm just like talking to her and, you know, she's shocked. I've never had any issues. I don't even really get headaches. I've never been knocked

out. You know, there's never been a time in my life where I thought, man, I should get my head looked at, you know, I think something could be wrong, you know? And so, you know, talking with her and then I have my coach, Mauricio. He's my head MMA coach and my Muay Thai teacher. And he goes with me down to Kutuchiba and we train there at his brother's academy, Andre Dita, Dita's academy, Evolucion Thai. And, you know, we fly Saturday, arrive Sunday, start training Monday. And I'm just like, I'm trying train this first day, and I'm just like, what am I doing? And I'm getting hit in the head, and I'm like, man, am I slowly killing myself right here? What am I training for at this point? I'm not approved.

What am I going to do? And so we talk it over, and we're like, okay, obviously we need to get more opinions. And I'm down in Brazil for three weeks, basically all of May. The fight was June 21st or 23rd, something like that. And so I'm spending all of May there. So I need to see some Brazilian doctors, some doctors down here in Curitiba. And so we just begin the process. Let's get a prescription. Do you speak Portuguese? I'm not a hundred percent fluent, but I can get around. I can do pretty well on my own

down there just from all the trips that I've done over the years. Um, so, you know, thankfully Mauricio, his brother Dita, um, they have so many connections down there. Um, you know, uh, being who they are and the history that they have, um, you know, teaching martial arts, you know, you get to know everybody. Right. And so they were able to make things happen quick for me. Um, uh, we saw a doctor, got a prescription for another MRI, get scheduled to get that MRI done, which happens on Friday, the end of my first week there. So I'm going that whole week training, you know, trying to stay positive. Um, but I'm wondering, you know, what, you know trying to stay positive um but i'm wondering you know what you know what am i doing what's going on you know what i mean like yeah i i can't i can't begin to describe

the the thoughts and emotions i can't imagine that i mean it'd be so distracting during sparring as well oh yes yes and you, they go harder down there. To put it mildly. Yeah. That place is known for like some of the most ruthless killers to ever come out of Brazil. 100%. I mean, that's shoot the box. Exactly.

Yeah. I'm not sleeping well. I'm, you know, I'm emotional wreck. I'm not sleeping well. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm emotional wreck. Basically. I'm calling my girl, uh, over FaceTime, um, you know, multiple times a day, we're looking at each other on the screen. I'm crying. I'm confiding in Mauricio and Shonji Hibero was also there with me. Um, I had an Airbnb with Shonji. Um, so thankfully I wasn't on my own 24 seven, uh, outside of the Academy. Um, my DCO always stays with his family and, um, you know, I'm just like, man, when Sean, Sean, she arrived, um, that Monday or Tuesday and I tell him what's going on. I'm just like, dude,

I'm a mess right now. Like, uh, I don't know. Uh, you know, I, I'm just so uncertain of my health and what's going on. Man, I just can't put it into words. But I'm trying to stay positive. I'm trying to stay positive. And we get through that first week, get the MRI, the new MRI down there in Brazil. So then we have, you know, the Brazilian MRI to take to Brazilian doctors. And so then the second week we start seeing neurologists and, you know, specialists to get their opinion and see what they have to say. get their opinion and, um, and see what they have to say. And that was the hardest week ever because, um, multiple doctors were all saying no. Um, you know, when you look at the scan

right off the bat, it just like, it doesn't look good. You know, when you have a picture of it, And right off the bat, it just like, it doesn't look good. You know, when you have a picture of it, uh, man, actually I don't have, sorry, I don't have one with me right now. Um, but, um, you know, you just see these gray, like little shades of circles, like in a lot of them. little shades of circles, like a lot of them. Well, I have multiple and most of them are very small, um, like popcorn size. And, you know, those aren't that dangerous at least yet, but there is one accumulation on the backside of my, the right side of my head, um, you know, back here the right side of my head, back here.

And that has built up. And it looks big. Like how big? Probably somewhere between a baseball size, like golf ball to baseball in between there. Jesus. It's pretty big. But it's on the very outer rim. Um, so it's not like in the middle of my brain, it's on the outside, you know? So if

you were to go right through my head, it could be right there. You know, you could essentially pull it out without having to go through too much stuff. Is that something that might actually have to happen? No, not now. Not now. I'll fast forward to the doctors I end up seeing here in the States who clarify a lot of this. But the doctors in Brazil all say the same thing. Well, they're kind of just, I mean, you know, fighting already isn't good for your brain. You know what I mean?

Getting hit in the head isn't good for your brain. And I think just looking at it when you see it and then you know that I'm going to get hit in the head and what I do, you're automatically going to be like, hey, you know, there's already this extra bit of danger that we're putting in to a dangerous situation. Let's not play. Let's not roll the dice. You know, let's not play that game. And so we were getting multiple doctors saying no, you know. And even one was like, you know, they said that jujitsu could be dangerous, that me getting my blood cut off, like in a choke, um, you know, cutting off the circulation to my

brain that could be dangerous. And so this week I am literally not sleeping at all. I am crying multiple times a day and I'm just like, man, what am I doing? I'm going into the sparring, you know, and I'm training and I'm not, I'm not going to get approved. I'm not going to fight, you know, and this has already been like a six, seven month training camp at this point, you know? Um, and it's for the belt. It's my life's work. It's everything for me, you know? So I was just crushed day in, day out, trying to get through. And on Thursday of that week, I'm doing MMA sparring. And I kind of had it coming.

I shouldn't have been going as hard as what I've been going. But I was trying to stay positive and stay ready. What if I need to be ready for this fight? It's Masasi. I've got to be at my best. In reality, I was just training like garbage. I was having my worst training camp, my worst fight camp because of everything. was having my worst training camp, my worst fight camp, you know, because of everything.

And on this day, I'm in my third round of MMA sparring and I, I strained my hamstring bad. I go for like a double leg and the guy has a judo background. He overhooked like wizards me and goes for like a Uchimata, Haraigoshi type of throw. I'm wearing wrestling shoes. I try to drop my hips, you know, so he doesn't elevate me. And my legs, my knees go straight and my foot gets stuck in the floor with the wrestling shoe. And my hamstring just snapped, you know, like a loud, like pop, pop, pop. And I just scream and I let it go. And I, you know, I get thrown down and I'm just like, ah, and I, you, pop. And I just scream and I let it go. And I, you know, I get thrown down and I'm just like, ah, and I, you know, he, he knew something was wrong. We stopped right there

and my leg is just throbbing and I tried to get up. I couldn't get up. So I had to like, walk on my hands, scoot off the mat. I got carried out of the Academy that day, could not walk. And I'm sitting down on the edge of the mat. And I'm just like, I'm bursting into tears. And I look up to Matty soon. I'm like, man, it's not going to happen. Like, there's no way, you know, all this is going on. I'm not approved. I'm training horrible. I can't walk now, you know. And so, you know, that was the end of week two. All knows. We have one more doctor to see who's like the professor of many of the doctors that I already saw. He's very highly regarded. One of the best doctors in the South of Brazil, a neurospecialist, neurosurgeon. We were so lucky to get in to see him and, you know, cause he's booked up,

booked up, booked up, but we managed an appointment time for Monday of the third week, Monday night. So, you know, I'm like, I basically given up. I can't walk. Uh, I met home that whole weekend and Shonji, he, uh, he had seminars on the weekend. You know, he came down there to support me in camp, but on the weekends he was going off to teach seminars in different areas of Brazil. And so I'm laid up in this Airbnb all weekend. And I'm like, just FaceTiming my girl. And I'm like, you know, baby, like, I don't think this is happening. I can't believe come this far, you know, to the title shot, this much training, you know, for the camp, like going from November of 2018 into the end of May of 2019, that was my, that was it was just

this fight with Masasi. And, uh, uh, you know, it, it took everything for me. Like, this sounds funny, but the, the house, the Airbnb, the, the host, you know, she's like a great host. She left so many chocolates and all this food in the house, like sweets. And I just wanted to pig out and eat all these chocolates. I kept telling Shonji, bro, you got to eat these things. I can't look at these. I'm such an emotional wreck right now. And I'm in the spot all weekend by myself.

And I'm ready to give up. I'm like, I'm going to go eat churrascaria, you know what I mean, and eat all these chocolates and just like, you know, because I have to diet very strict to make 185. What do you walk around at? Around 210 to 215 is my normal weight, you know. Big cut. So, I mean, that weight is kind of normal.

Like most guys at 185 are around 210, but I'm already tall. I'm already naturally pretty lean. So I have to be very strict on my diet to get that low. And it took everything for me to not just pig out and just like totally give in. And, but, you know, my UCO was just like, Hey, we have one more doctor, one more doctor. The whole weekend, all I did was just put CBD cream on my leg, uh, resilient CBD, shout out to them and my sponsor. Um, and I use using the Mark pro on my, on my leg. Um, to Mark pro it's like, uh, similar to like a tens unit, but it has different frequencies and you can go really deep in there. And so I'm just like, okay, let me just try to recover this thing as much as I can. I couldn't train, couldn't do anything. I was basically stuck at home.

Um, and that's all I did. And I just said, okay, Monday night, that's it. If he says no, it's done. And at this point I hadn't told anything to any, I let my manager Ed know, but we hadn't said anything to anybody else. Literally the only ones that knew were my girl, Shanji Mauricio and Ed. And so we go see this doctor Monday night and man, right off the bat, he kind of captivated us because he was the first one to be just chill and just like,

okay, what's going on? What brings you here? Didn't look at any pictures. Didn't, you know, didn't rush it. And I tell him, uh, yeah, you know, I got my scans. It looks like I have cavernoma. He said, okay, let me see your scans. And he's like, yeah, yeah, this is, this is a cavernoma for sure. Um, how do you feel? The first one to ask me, how do you feel? And so, well, uh, you know, um, this is all a huge shock. I've never had any problems. I feel great. I'm fine. You know, I, you know, I don't even get headaches. And, um, he's like, okay. Um, you know, uh, he talks headaches. And he's like, okay. You know, he talks with me and he's like, let's go do an evaluation.

We do an evaluation and do some tests. Everything's normal. Like just simple, like, you know, staying on one leg and all that kind of stuff. You know, and everything's fine. And so we go back to the office. We sit down. He's like, let me just see what I can find. But I guarantee I'm not going to find anything that says head impact or trauma is going to increase the risk of your cavernoma bleeding. And so he starts looking up, you know, journals and, you know, studies, all the things that doctors have access to.

And he literally finds nothing. There is no studies that say that getting hit in your head is going to make your cavernoma worse or cause you to bleed and something's going to happen. And he's like, look, you can bleed. You can be oozing blood at any point in time, a little by little. Um, and it could become an issue at some point in time. Um, but there is no treatment. There is no, we're not going to do surgery. Like there's nothing that's going to happen until you have symptoms, until you show signs. And because I can't find any studies that say getting hit in the head is going to make it worse. And because you are, you know, a normal, like healthy functioning person at this point, I think it's fine for you to fight.

You should continue doing what you do until it becomes a problem. And if it does become a problem, we'll go in there and we'll take it out, the big mass. And then we'll move forward. And so I'm just like, I started getting emotional already. And I'm kind of like, wow. So you'll write a letter saying this? You'll support me? And he's like, yeah, sure, sure. No problem. Super calm guy. Just, and he was the oldest doctor we had spoken to as well. Um, most experienced. And so we get this letter, man, we walk out of that office,

uh, me and Mauricio. And as soon as we, we leave the door and we get to the elevator, man, I just burst into tears. I can't believe that there's some hope. Like this can still happen. And me and Mauricio embrace and just we both cry. I'm like, oh my God, we got the letter. We got the letter. So I send the letter to Ed and we got the letter. We got the letter. So I, uh, I send the letter to Ed and we begin

the process of trying to get approved. We get everything into Bellator, let them know they got the scans. Um, they send it over to the Europe, uh, commission. They use an organization called safe MMA. Um, and you know, we kind of like, we're happy, we're positive, but at the same time, I'm still not approved. It's still not on, you know, but the letter is like, that was the missing piece. That was what we needed to be able to move forward. That was the missing piece. That was what we needed to be able to move forward. So I finished that last week unable to really move. You know, I can't wrestle.

I can't kick. And my last week in Brazil, you know, I'm literally just hitting mids like this. And I'm like, okay, trying to stay positive. I still have like a month let's get this healed let's just keep sweating did you get an MRI on the hamstring no I didn't get an MRI on the hamstring um it uh it didn't have any discoloration so it wasn't a tear um it was like a severe strain but with the popping it didn't turn black and blue and so without that color discoloration i didn't i almost didn't even want to know i was just like right you know like when did it start

feeling better it didn't really i actually still feel it now uh it yeah um it was a situation the whole way. Um, but I could stand, so I could stand and all I'm doing is boxing now at this point, because I can't throw kicks and I can't change levels to, to do takedowns. Um, and so that was a whole nother thing because, you know, as I'm waiting to, to hear back on if I'm going to get approved, I'm only punching mitts. I might as well be doing a cardio kickboxing class without kicks. And that was the last thing that I want to do with Masasi is just go in there and box. That's not what I do. Right.

So the hardships and frustrations just continued as I'm dealing with my hamstring. But at least we had some hope. So I finished that week, fly home, and now I'm finishing my last couple weeks of camp at home in Oklahoma. Shonji comes to Oklahoma. Mauricio is there. And I'm trying to put together some great training. One of my best training partners from Kudachiba, his name is Chris Cristiano. He came to Oklahoma as well. Um, and you know, everyone's aware of the situation as far as my coaches, my team, I did not tell my parents. Um, I, I didn't want anyone to know. I didn't want it to

get out. Um, and so I was just dealing with it with them, you know? And, um, and so we send everything in, um, and we're waiting, we're waiting. This guy, his name is Yanni. He's on the commission with Safe MMA. He reaches out to me like after the first week and he said, hey, we need to talk. And so I give him a call and he's like, we got the letter. We're looking at your scans. We've actually created a panel of doctors to talk about this. And at this point, it's 50-50. You know, I just want you to know.

We're unsure if we're going to approve. And I just want you to hear, you know, I just wanted to touch base with you. I wanted you to hear from me. We see everything, but you have to understand where we're still not sure. So bear with us. I'm like, okay, try to get through the next week. Um, I had some decent days with my hamstring, um, where I could shoot a little bit and work some takedowns. But, um, if I had a good day, the next day I had to take it real light because it was just it was so tight, so tight, so tender. Did you get it massaged at all?

Oh, yeah. I was doing everything, everything possible. I mean, getting it worked on, doing hot, cold. Like, you know, I'm I'm pretty like anything out there that is for recovery. I have probably at my house, you know, um, I'm big on really taking care of my body. So I was just trying to be as smart as I could and just get through it. And, you know, we come to this point now where the fight is two weeks away, and I don't know if it's on or not. I'm just trying to put together as good of training as I can, stay as positive as I can,

but at the same time, I'm just like, man, I need the yes. I need to be able to focus. How are you staying conditioned when you barely can use your leg, man? It was, it was really hard. Um, I, I was heavier. I was walking around heavier than what I normally would, um, for, for my fights, you know, by this time I'm normally below two Oh five, um, in the 200 to 205 range. That's where I like to get to just off pure diet and off training. And I was still 210 to 212.

It was hard. I could box hard and I could spar boxing. But without wrestling, I didn't feel like I was conditioned the way I wanted to be. I couldn't sprint. I could ride the bike. The bike didn't put too much pressure, but I couldn't go all out the way I would like to. Like an airdyne? Yeah. Airdyne. Everything was not the way it would normally be done. Now, you know, you're never a hundred percent. You're always dealing with something. You know, I've, I've had

a broken nose before cuts, rib things. Like there's always something, you know, you're never a hundred percent. You're always dealing with something. You know, I've, I've had a broken nose before cuts, rib things like there's always something, you know? Um, but, um, but it was, it was the stress of both in, in the uncertainty on if we would get to fight at all. Yeah. That was really hard. And for sure, that's why I got hurt. You know, that's 100% why I got hurt. Um, but anyways, um, finally on like the last day that they could give me the answer, they gave me the answer and I got the email and it said, we've approved you. You are approved to fight two weeks before the fight. I held off on, you know, I'm, I'm flying my family there. You know what I mean? I have all my, my, like there's the corner coaches, but I have a couple other coaches that I was, you know, going to fly out there and I was waiting to purchase these tickets. And, you know, I had some other guys like, Hey, where are you staying? What's, what's going on? Like, uh, I'm ready. And I'm like, Hey, don't, don't book anything just yet. Don't book

any. Cause I don't want them to buy tickets to London and you know, I'm'm ready and i'm like hey don't book anything just yet don't book any because i don't want them to buy tickets to london and you know i'm not fighting and i'm trying to like be cool and not give anyone too you know uh too much an idea of what's going on and stay positive stay confident and everything finally we got the green light and i'm literally flying a few days later to London. Uh, I, we left on Tuesday, uh, and arrived there Wednesday. I got there like 10 days before. So I have one weekend before the weekend of the fight. Um, and, uh, you know, at this point it was like, okay, once we got that, yes. I mean, we celebrated, it was like, you know, that's all I wanted. I mean, I had already fought so hard just to be able to get to this fight, you know. And we, you know, we go to London and my leg starts doing a little better.

And I'm like, you know, starting to just feel it like, OK, this is it. You know, everything's coming together. We're going to we're going to finish things on a good note. And Friday, the week before the fight, I met Hodger's Academy in London. Hodger Gracie. He opened up his doors, let us work in there. And and I'm feeling good and I overdo, and I feel my hamstring go again. It wasn't a full pop, but it was like that stretch where it catches it,

and it's just like this pain rushed through, and I'm like, oh, no, I did it again. I could feel it tighten up and lock. I had to stop training that day. And this is a week before the fight now. And I'm right back to that. Like, I can't, I can't change levels. I can't kick. And I'm just like, you know, once again, an emotional wreck. Um, and my friend Cameron Shane, who's a mobility yoga guru, he's just an amazing guy. He, you know, being that I felt the way I did, I don't want to go back to Hodgers and try to do anything because I don't want people to see me. And he has these, you know, yoga connections all throughout the world.

connections all throughout the world. And we found a yoga studio where my last few days we could go there and try to do whatever we could, where no one could see, you know, as far as like other Jiu Jitsu guys or MMA guys. Um, and, um, and man, the Sunday before the fight, we, we go into this yoga studio and, uh, we're trying to get a workout together. And I'm just like, man, I break down, and I just start crying, and I'm like, guys, because I'm literally, you know, hitting mitts like this again. I'm right back to that. My niece was like, just punch, just to lose the weight, you know, and I'm like, man, I need to wrestle.

I need to feel my takedowns. I need to feel my whole game coming together, and I just break down, and all the guys come around me, you know, uh, and they just, man, they, they consoled me in such a, a special way. And I mean, we just cut it that day. Like there was no more training, but you know, I, I can't, I can't begin to give as much gratitude and describe how much my team was there for me when I needed them because I was not in a good state of mind. I was not in a good place. I can imagine. You're six days out in London and you literally can't

use your leg. Exactly. Exactly. Um, and you know, they just, uh, like the, the love and the inspiration and everything that they put into me. Um, I mean, we, we all fought that fight together we all fought that fight together and you know we left that day had a couple more days before we check into the Bellator Hotel the Tuesday Wednesday is when we go to the Bellator Hotel Tuesday I was able to put together a good day of training like so it loosened up it up, it loosened back up. It wasn't, like I said, it wasn't a full as bad as the first one. Um, it just hit me for a second, but I think like, you know, um, those moments, um, you know, I needed that. I needed to, to combine our energies, you know, because look how that fight ended up going. You know, I felt like, like that, that fight before the fight was to prep me for the fight, you know?

Um, and, um, you know, going there, obviously I'm a big underdog, you know, uh, it's in London. Musashi has so much history there. He's from Amsterdam. Um, you know, uh, I don't know if anyone out there saw the video that Bella tour put out afterwards where I said like, you know, we did it and you could see how emotional I was. This is why, you know? Um, and fast forward to when we're back, backstage, um, you know, getting ready to go out there. Um, I always take, uh, my favorite book, think and grow rich from Napoleon Hill. I always take that. Why is that? It's just a powerful book for my life. I discovered it in 2000, the end of 2007. And it's just such an inspirational book and really kind of like was the sort of the Bible

for self-help books and all the other, you know, people that kind of came from that, like Tony Robbins and things like that. Like, you know, the, the, the motivating, you know, like the secret, you know, all those sorts of things, um, think and grow rich was like the first. And, um, and anyways, there's so many quotes in there, um, and things that just have stuck with me throughout the years. And I love to read certain chapters and portions of it when I'm backstage getting ready to fight. Um, and I have like highlighted sentences and notes in it and stuff.

And I'm backstage and I open, I opened the book and I hadn't opened it, uh, up to this point on this trip. Like it was just with me, put it in my bag and you know, I got a couple hours before we go out to fight and I always open it up. And, uh, as soon as I open it, it's on the, you know, the flap isn't inside in a chapter already. Um, and the last place I looked at it or whatever. in the last place I looked at it or whatever. And the first thing I see is a highlighted, highlighted a portion that says every adversity carries with it the seed of an equivalent advantage. That was the first thing that I saw. And it hit me right there. It was like everything that I went through in this camp to get to this fight, you know, that is going to be my advantage. That is going to be what carries me through this fight. That that's my power. I know what I'm here

for. That's a great quote. It's the best, you know, every adversity carries with it the seed of an equivalent advantage. Another one of my favorites from Napoleon Hill that I've used on t-shirts and inside a gi before, victory is always possible for the person who refuses to stop fighting, which is, that's martial arts, right? A black belt is a white belt who never quit. As long as you never quit, success is always possible. Every failure just helps you learn and grow to, to, you know, get to your ultimate objective, your ultimate goal. And when I saw that, you know, write that book down right now. Yeah. Think and grow rich. And the point now I tell all my, all my students, all my competitors, all my guys, I always talk about that book. Um, and, and that was the first thing that I saw, you know, and, and like I said, like going

into this fight, all I wanted was that fight, like trying to get approved. That whole process was just like, Hey, just give me this one. Just give me this one more. Don't stop me this short of, of my dream. You know, my dream to fight for the belt, to fight a legendary fighter like Musashi, someone that's been, you know, at the top for so long, that was how I envisioned, you know, fighting for my first big world title, uh, in MMA. And I mean, I was going out there, like that was the last fight of my life. Like it could potentially be the last fight of my life, you know, and all this stuff with my health, like, you know, when I'm thinking about my, my parents and my family, you know,

like wondering, you know, am I going to get hurt? Is this, am I, you know, going to do something where selfishly where, because I want this, I want to fight, I want this, this title that something could happen to me. And, and, you know, um, I'm not going to be healthy. I'm not going to be the same and I'm going to break their hearts. I had all these emotions and thoughts and, and, you know, it was just like, like I was literally kind of, I mean, and it's, so to speak, going out there ready to die, like ready to just let it all out. Like, this is it. You know, all I wanted was this opportunity, you know?

And, um, and I could feel how all of that was to prep me for the fight, you know, everything that we went through that fight to get to the fight and my dad's in my corner you know he's in my corner for all my fights I have the guys that went through everything you know those that last four or five weeks before the fight to get approved with me and when I saw that I looked around at them and I smiled. I said, guys, we're going to do it. We're going to do it. It was like it was destiny. And I don't know if you've ever seen, but I've posted before some clips of my dad who is a professional organist or former professional organist, but he still plays the organ. He's a musician.

He's a musician. And when I when I walked out for this fight what I did the time that I spent with my dad. I was at church listening to him play the organ. And then we would go to the Academy and, uh, and we would, you know, we would train, um, or we would train at home and, you know, my father's in my corner and, you know, this is, this is our work. You know, I am who I am because of him. I'm a martial artist because of him. I have my brothers, the guys I've been training with for over a decade. You know, it was our destiny. It was family. You know, we were going out there to fight as a family.

And walking out to my dad playing the organ, you know, it just really, it took me to this place where it's like, I'm going to give everything. I absolutely have win or lose. I'm, you know, I'm not going to stop. I'm going to do my best my absolute best and and then you know the fight went the way it did came down to the fifth round you know um that's where that fifth round came from was was for for them you know the the love that they gave me to get me even just to get me there you know because i was ready to break man i was i I I was in pieces so many days in that camp. I, you know, it was it was just a roller coaster of emotions. But having them, you know, my father, my brothers behind me, that's where that strength came from.

And and everything we went through before the fight. But that's why I was so emotional in the cage. I mean, you'd be emotional anyways for a title fight, but, you know, it was something else. Just to get there, you know, and have that opportunity. And you could really, Mauricio, I mean, Mauricio, he's right there with his hands. It's a powerful moment right there. Did it bother you that he had a lot of sour grapes after the fight? Gegard did.

It did. It did. He didn't really credit you for the fight. Gegard did. It did. It did. He didn't really credit you for the fight. He was just saying mostly that you're on steroids. He's my mom. Yeah. Paying her respects, giving him a hug. I mean, I understand that he felt bad because he lost,

but I felt like the way he handled it was uncharacteristic for him. I thought so too. We were so respectful. After the fight, I went up to him. Before they made the decision, I went up to him. I shook his hand. I said, man, it was an honor. So much respect for you. It was an honor to battle with you.

I thanked him. Thank you. And we shook hands and hugged. But then he didn't stay after they raised my hand he walked right out we didn't shake hands again and then everything else yeah really surprised me um i i think it was just hard to to fathom because you know this was my 10th fight he'd already had over 50 he was a big he was a big favorite i i just don't think, you know, he, they were very confident. They were very confident leading up to the fight. And I don't think anyone imagined me to walk out of there with that belt.

Especially with one leg. He didn't know about that. It hurt really bad after. I'm sure. But, you know, I didn't feel it. Like, that's when the adrenaline's pumping. Right. You know, I didn't. It wasn't until like an hour later. I was like, whew.

Right. It's pretty tight. Yeah. Why do you think he did that? Why do you think? I mean, he's lost before. I've never seen him just attribute, essentially, attribute most of your success. He was just accusing you of taking

steroids yeah and not a little bit of steroids you're saying like monkey steroids that's what he said yeah i don't know uh you know his camp had a i felt like musashi is genuinely like what i would call uh you know a real martial artist he's, he's a martial artist and he doesn't really ever, you know, trash talk anybody. Um, and we were very respectful, but you know, his camp was, they were saying and doing some things that were a little edgier. I would say when we will do here. Yeah. Yeah. When we, uh, when we, uh, we're at the press conference and we were going on for the face-off, you know, all this camp, we're always yelling a bunch of things. And, and you know, when we were walking up, one guy yells up to me, dead man walking. And of course, immediately in my mind,

I'm like, I have this brain disease, you know, that you know, may or may not be an issue here in a couple of days when we fight, you know, and, and I have my family right there and I'm like, and then I have to look at him in the eyes, you know, but now I'll never forget that. I thought about that, you know, dead man walking. And I was just like this guy, you know? And it was a lot. It was a lot to take in, to step into that cage. But I think maybe some of the people he's around, maybe. That doesn't cause him to say those things. When he was sitting at the table with the microphone in front of him,

did you respond to that? No. I mean, that was right when we were walking to face off and the press conference was basically done at that point. So I had nothing to say to that, you know, that person yelling that and, you know. No, I mean, after the fight when he was accusing you of steroids, did you ever? No, I never, never had a moment moment to you know i i we never had another i haven't had another fight haven't been never did an interview or anybody talked to you about his accusations uh no who was i did one luke thomas luke thomas um did an interview with

me i like that guy a lot yeah yeah um and uh i think it was after no yeah it was before he fought machida it was before he fought machida um and he talked to me about it you know in an interview about the fight and everything and uh you know i didn't have too much to say other than i just felt like it was a little sad because it was a great fight you know it was a really great fight and a good fight close fight yeah super close um i feel like we kind of you know i i he probably thinks that he was under par and uh and i made a lot of mistakes too and i wasn't too happy about some of the things that that happened in that fight as well i thought i could have done a lot better but in way, I felt like we kind of brought out the best of each other. You know, his jujitsu very much impressed me. Uh, he was, he was a seasoned pro just like always calm. And, you know, then when he had his moment, he had his moment, he started taking over,

you know, and, um, and I, you know, I, it brought out the best of me and the heart that I showed coming back in that fifth round. And I just felt like it was a great fight and we should be applauding each other for our performances. And all this, you know, trash talking is really taken away from that. And anyways, we were supposed to fight Saturday night in L.A. a couple days ago. We set up the fight in November. I signed a bout agreement. He went out there and got a win against Machida.

Happy to do the rematch. And bringing this stuff back up, I'm in camp. I've already started camp for this fight in January. It's November, and I get a call from, well, the same person I spoke to, Yanni from Safe MMA, says, hey, we have a doctor. We've continued studying your scans. We've had a doctor look at this that didn't see it before the fight. His name is Dr. Healy. He's from Ireland.

And he really wants to talk to you. I said, okay, have him give me a call and let's talk. So I'm actually in Austin. I'm training at the Onnit campus, getting great training down there, you know, getting my camp going. And I get this call from Dr. Healy, and we talk, and he is very adamant that I should not continue fighting. And he says it's a mistake that I was approved and able to fight in London. And moving forward, I would not be approved in Europe again. So at this point, now Europe is a no. Now, what is his credentials? Why is he so respected above all the others?

What did he see in the scan? He's a neurologist. He sees the same thing as everybody else. scan he's a neurologist he sees the same thing as everybody else um he just says that they made the wrong decision and somehow he didn't see it before the fight he didn't see the scans before the fight no but why is his opinion respected above all the other doctors that approved you i don't know i don't know um the doctor in curit doctors. He's part of this panel that Safe MMA created. They continued talking about my scans and discussing it further. You know, it's a rare thing. You know, cavernoma is, I mean, it's not that rare, but it's like one in two or three people have it in the US. And they probably don't know about it. Exactly. Unless they've experienced symptoms. Unless they have symptoms. And in

Europe, it's like one in 500. And so being that it's a rare disease and throw that into me doing something that not very many people do, You know, I don't think there's been too many cases where a professional fighter has this disease and they have to make these decisions. Um, and so I get that call from Dr. Healy and you know, I'm like, and of course I've already started another camp now. So the same things are coming up. We're like, am I going to get approved? I'm driving up from Austin to corner one of my guys at the border of Oklahoma and Texas for his Bellator debut. And so I'm at Bellator like the next day. This call I got from Dr. Healy was on Thursday. Friday, I'm driving up to Bellator to corner one of my guys. And so I'm there and I end up talking to Rich and I tell Rich, hey, man, I just got this call.

I'm a little nervous, you know, because in my mind up to that point, I thought, well, since Europe approved me, I should be okay to continue getting approved and continue fighting. And, um, and so I'm like, man, maybe we need to go and start the process now. Let's not wait. You know, it's November. Let's not wait till December to, to get everything into California. I can't do another camp with all this uncertainty. And Rich agrees. And he's like, yep. Okay. I'm on it next week. And, um, you know, we got Ian, Ian Matthews is the, he coordinates all the medicals for, for Bellator. We start, you know, getting organized and like literally a little over a week later, I'm flying out to LA to see doctors here and, um, and, you know, check up on everything, get new scans and see what they say. So, um, I get my scans done. Um, I talked to a neurologist. He is not

favorable of me fighting, but he, the last thing he says is you really need to see a specialist like a neurosurgeon. So there's neurologists and then there's neurosurgeons, ones that actually do brain surgeries. Um, and he says, you need to see an actual specialist. Um, you know, that's the last thing he says. And so, boom, I'm right on the phone with Ian. He, the guy recommended a couple of people. Ian's able to set it up where the next day I go to UCLA and I see a neurosurgeon. His name is Dr. Wong. Um, the next morning and, uh, Matt, he's with me, Ed's with me. We go see Dr. Wong and he is very, very similar to the doctor I see in Brazil. He is very calm.

He's a younger guy, though, but he has a lot of experience with people with cavernoma. He's actually, I mean, that morning he actually operated on someone before we saw him that had cavernoma and had a bundle very similar to mine, almost in the exact same location. It took him less than an hour to get it out, and that person walked away. How are they getting into the brain? I can't tell you the specifics of the surgery, but, I mean, they're able to go in, and because it's on the outer rim, able to to go in and because it's on the outer rim they can pull it out and it's very it's a very minimal like um turnaround as far as your recovery and i mean you're the person got up and walked

away so this is just a large bundle the small bundles are not of concern exactly um the large bundle has already shown a history of a little bit of bleeding. You know, they could see where like some blood came out and dried up. And, you know, if that continues, you know, and it keeps getting bigger, then it's more pressure on your brain and, you know, more likely for hemorrhaging and things like that. But he says that it's in the best location possible. And the fact that it's on the outer rim would be easy to get out if they needed to. And I asked him, I said, well, should we just get this thing out now? And then I can try to get approved just so it doesn't look so bad and make people feel better.

And he recommends against it. He said, no, we're not going, and make, make people feel better. And he recommends against it. He said, no, we're not going to do surgery until you have some symptoms or some problems. Um, and you know, until then, like live your life, he's operated and worked with, um, NFL players and boxers, um, that have cavernoma and they were able to continue on no problem and he was very positive i i have a letter from him on my phone and he's talking about like the percentage of something happening being less than one percent with it as it stands yes yes so he's giving you the full go ahead he's giving me the full go ahead and so we're very positive um we leave thinking that that's going to be enough

um and i continue with my camp and it was in december that uh you know rich Rich and Bellator, they, you know, and let me just say, they have been super supportive. Bellator, you know, they organized me going out and seeing this doctor, getting into the, you know, UCLA to see the neurosurgeon. And, you know, they've been really helpful and tremendous in working with me to keep this dream alive of continuing to fight. I mean, it was a dream to become the champion. And now, I mean, I've only done three fights with Bellator outside of my home state, outside of Oklahoma, my last three, you know, so I'm at this point now where like, I was going to fight in LA, you know, which was going to be amazing. fight in LA, you know, which was going to be amazing. Uh, all the, the friends that I have here for my career in jujitsu, you know, and already looking ahead to, I mean, actually I was,

I was shooting for us to fight in Japan. They just did their first Bellator Japan, uh, on New Year's Eve. And I thought, Oh, with Musashi's history in Japan, maybe we could fight there, but they wanted us in LA, which was fine. But, you know, starting to see that, oh, with Musashi's history in Japan, maybe we could fight there. But they wanted us in L.A., which was fine. But, you know, starting to see that, hey, these big arenas and, you know, really just like the big shows were right there, like at grasp, you know, putting on for my team, for my family and, you know, for where I'm from. Like we're about to be there, you know? And, um, you know, so like, I was super excited, super excited, um, for this fight, but Bellator, they'd say, okay, we're going to get this into California sort of under the table. You know, we're not going to put an official application because if they deny, you know,

now that'll be two commissions on paper that say no. And so, you know, they kind of put this into the athletic commission's hands. Andy Foster, the California State Athletic Commission say, Hey, you know, we have a guy who has this condition. Just tell me what you guys would do with this situation. Uh, would it be approved or not? And it was like mid December. Um, the word came back that it wasn't going to be a no. And, um, so that's really, you know, why I'm here right now is, uh, you know, people I I've, uh, committed myself to, to getting back into grappling and jujitsu. Um, right now, uh, I have a match lined up next month. Um, and I'm sure, you know, there's questions that already have been questions. I had already told my students, I mean, I had signed a bout agreement and everything

for, for January. And I had students buying tickets to come to LA to, to be here at my fight. Um, you know, and I've been like, like, Oh, you know, we got, we got postponed. We got delayed. I haven't said anything to anyone other than my, I mean, I just told my parents a few weeks ago, you know. I finally told them. Do your parents have this? Have they gotten themselves checked? They haven't gotten scanned yet, but the plan is for them to get checked out for sure.

And that's a big reason why I'm here today, Joe, is to, you know, create awareness for this because, you know because who knows? And it's really given me a different outlook. We get physicals. We go see the dentist. We get checked up. But how often do you think,

let me get a brain scan done to know what's going on with my head, to know how my brain looks, you know. I've thought about doing it. I'm actually nervous. I don't blame you. I don't blame you. Now, man, I totally get that. Before, like I said, I went into it so like, oh, this is just a routine thing, you know, to get approved to fight.

I fought nine times already. you know, to get approved to fight. I fought nine times already. Imagine who else could be out there with something either in their living a regular life or maybe in an extreme life where they're doing combat or, um, you know, in some sort of extreme sport where they're getting hit in the head, but it was never required of them to get a scan done. Um, and they never just had an issue. So they never thought about it, you know? Um, and you don't really know what's going on up there until you get it looked at. So are you officially retiring? I'm not officially retiring. I am sort of, I guess, indefinitely on the sidelines right now. I am, I am actively seeing more doctors and working towards learning more about this. I, obviously I want to keep fighting. This gentleman in LA, Dr. Wong, so he had done these operations on, you said MMA fighters.

So he had done these operations on, you said, MMA fighters? I don't know if he operated on, he mentioned boxers and NFL players. I don't know if he operated on them. He had seen it in them and helped them continue their careers, and he keeps a close eye. So I need to get scans done at least once a year or every six months. That patch, the large patch in the back of your head, was that particularly troubling to him more than the other ones? No, no, no. He said like that it was in the best location possible. To get to. Yes. And because it's not deep in, it's not in an area where it could affect my, my cognitive functions, my memory, things like that. What goes on back there? Back there, you know, I'm not a hundred percent

sure. They made it, I mean, he made it sound like nothing too important happens there. It's more like, I know like the back area, as far as what I've learned thus far is more like everyday type of stuff. You know, it's not your memory. It's not in a position where you could violently lose your temper or kind of like have like a lapse in time, you know, where you kind of become someone else. And then you come back like, you know, that all that kind of stuff happens more deep inside the brain where it's at on the outside and the back is just sort of like the regular stuff, you know, obviously neither of us are neurosurgeons. We were describing the regular stuff,

the area of the regular stuff. Yeah. So, um, are you thinking about going in there and getting it removed? No, no, it is,

it is recommended against why is that doing? Cause why do brain surgery? If I don't have any symptoms? That's what he says. And, you know, because I was up for it. I said, hey, should we just do this? And he was like, look, it'll probably be six months to a year before I would say it's okay to go back into sparring and things like that. You know, you're going to be able to walk out and be fine

and do your day-to-day stuff, but I don't want you getting hit in the head for a while. Of course. And why, I mean, it's a low-risk surgery, but why take that risk if you're not having symptoms? The treatment or the care is always just to keep an eye on it, see how it develops, and if you start having some problems, then we're going to go in there and remove it.

But if you say that you're indefinitely on the sidelines, it seems to me that unless you get it removed, you're permanently on the sidelines. Well, this is where I'm at now. This is such a rare and unique thing. No one really knows too much. I'm getting some people that are saying, no, no way. And then I'm getting these other, you know, specialists and people that have really dealt with it

that are like, yeah, it's okay. I am, like I said, it's indefinite. I just want to, I'm 36. So you're in this, I mean, realistically, athletically, this is sort of the last chapter of your career. Oh, yes. Yeah. And this is how I wanted to end it, you know,

as the champ trying to submit myself as one of the great champs of this era and, you know, defend that belt as long as possible and, you know, say goodbye. I still have hope. I still have hope that if I can continue seeing more doctors and getting more knowledge, you know, Andy Foster from the Athletic Commission has recommended another doctor to see. I'm not officially declined for the California State Athletic Commission at this point. Did Andy Foster talk to this Dr. Wong who specifically said he didn't think it was going to be a problem? No, not yet. No. Not yet. But he recommended another doctor at UCLA that actually used to work on the athletic commission that could be a big help. And, I mean, this is – I'm right in the middle of this. So I'm just going to keep seeing more doctors and try to learn more about this.

more about this. And, you know, if it's, if it's really unsafe and I'm not going to get approved ever, I finally got to a place where I can accept that, you know, and, uh, and I'm going to move forward on with my life teaching and doing what I do, you know, uh, at home and, um, and with all of my students worldwide. But, um, but as I, if I'm still getting people like Dr. Wong and the doctor I saw in Brazil, and I can find more doctors who have experience with this, if they keep saying that they think it's okay, then, uh, and I can, you know, have hope of getting approved. I'm going to keep fighting for that. Where can you get approved? What States could approve you right now? to keep fighting for that. Where can you get approved? What states could approve you right now? Well, that's tricky to know because, um, you know, uh, as far as in the U S only New York and California require brain scans. And so that's, you know, a big thing of what I want to talk

about, you know, or what I wanted to bring awareness to is like, you know, all these other states don't require scans. So if you fight in those states, you know, to me, it's of your best interest to, on your own, if you have the means, if you have insurance or whatever, get a scan done, you know, to see what it looks like. For sure. But I'm hoping that through this we can figure out if cavernoma is safe or not. The more doctors I have looking at this and talking about it, bringing awareness to it,

that we're going to learn and understand more of this disease and if it's possible, if it's not possible. But I'm trying to keep the hope alive that if, if it's six months, a year, even two years, then maybe I can at least get one more, you know, at least get one more. Um, but the thing is them putting me in a state that doesn't require a scan doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to get approved because these other commissions have a responsibility to speak up and say, Hey, we don't think it's of his best interest, you know, health wise to, to compete. And, you know, I'm not, I don't, I'm not, uh, I'm not against the commission. I totally understand and respect that. Andy Foster is one of the very best in the business. He's so ahead of everybody else.

And he, they, they opened up a time for me to come out next month and speak with them face to face. You know, and get to see the people that are making the decisions and learn more and understand more of their position and, you know, how they feel about it. And I'm just trying to gather up as much information in the meantime. Would it be possible to do that with Dr. Wong? I hope so. That's the plan. And hopefully a few more. That's what I'm working on. That's what I'm in the middle of. And until then, I'm just going to keep training and trying to stay positive. Who do you have a match with, a jujitsu match? Well, it hasn't been announced yet, but I'm going to be facing i mean it's about to come out it's less than a month away now um february 21st i'll be facing

roberto cyborg in a no-gay grappling match um he's a big fella yes yes what's that dude way probably in the neighborhood of 240 maybe a little more yeah we've had a few matches in the past and he's a great guy he's a legend as well like just you know one of the best ever um from my time and uh it'll be fun and that's what i want to do in the meantime to keep myself sharp keep competing keep training and hopefully get another opportunity but if not at least learn more about this and hopefully, you know, um, inspire others to get checked out. You know, even if you're not in a combat sport, you know, or doing anything risky, just like the same would same thing you would do, like to go get a checkup, you know, Hey, at some point in your life, it wouldn't hurt.

Yeah. To get a scan done. Yeah. You know, at some point in your life, it wouldn't hurt to get a scan done. Yeah. You know, it just really opened my eyes to how we don't know what what's going on up there and something could happen, you know, and you don't have an answer to it. Um, but if you knew what was in your brain, maybe you would have that answer. Yeah. It seems like such a tricky situation to be in because if you do decide to do something about it you really kind of almost have to do it now right because at 36 with a full year off of no sparring at all or he said six months to a year so he would have to see you a couple times maybe do another scan yeah and see where you're at

let's say six months. Well, six months is like an ACL surgery. Not that bad. Right. But a year is like, ooh, now we're into 37, 37 and a half. And then you got to get in real tip top shape again. If you really wanted to fight again, it's funny. I understand the doctor's position. Why do the surgery if you don't experience symptoms?

But most people aren't fighters. Yeah. The thing is though, it doesn't take away the fact that I have cavernoma, right? There's multiple locations. And so just removing that one doesn't change the condition. So the, it's possible the commissions wouldn't change their evaluation just based on the scan with the other areas. Exactly. And is there anything that mitigates this? Is there any medication or diet or anything that you can do? I don't know about treatment like that for cavernoma specifically, but I did see another doctor recently through the help of Justin Wren, Big Pygmy,

another doctor recently, um, through the help of, uh, Justin Wren, big pygmy, um, Dr. Amen, um, who's actually a psychiatrist or psychologist by trait. And then he, um, you know, kind of went into studying the brain fully and he created the spec scan. Um, he's released numerous, you know, um, books that were New York times bestsellers, done TED Talks. And I actually saw him just a little over a week ago. And he has some different supplements that he recommends. He also talked to me about using the hyperbaric chamber, not the hard shell hyperbaric chamber because he thinks that might be too much pressure but like the soft one that you can zip up he thinks could be beneficial but it's more just for overall brain health it might not really make too much difference of cavernoma specifically

but i'm gonna do it i going to do whatever I can. Um, I want to be healthy, uh, obviously, you know, just, just for me and whether I get to fight or not, but, um, you know, like I said, I'm just going to stay positive. And in the meantime, look, I, I don't want to hold up the division. Like, uh, you know, I don't want to you know bellator is is being being very kind with time uh as we're going through all of this um but i understand you know there's guys out there deserve to fight for the title um and if they need to set up a a fight to determine the new champion you know um i understand you know I'm going to be over here doing everything I can to hopefully get approved to come back. But, you know, like I said, it's

sort of an indefinite retirement. I'm just working through this. And as people see me competing, I didn't want them to think that I'm just not trying to defend my belt or, you know, whatever with when Bellator, if they have to move forward and make another fight for the belt and people wondering what's going on with me, this is it. This is what I'm dealing with. And through this, I'm just hoping to help others that might have the same condition. Have there been any cases of people with cavernova

that have gone into remission? I'm not sure. I'm not sure i'm not sure i don't know um well i don't know the doctors didn't talk to you about that no you didn't ask that no that would be like the first thing i would ask like has anybody ever like made this go away yeah i don't think it i don't think that's possible it just is what it is yeah yeah i mean there's i i wish i would i should have brought in the pictures i have several little spots yeah i'd like to see it all over um they're actually in my car um where's your car right outside go get it we'll wait okay yeah i'm sorry no worries

man go away no worries i gotta see it right i mean how often do you get a chance to look at a dude's brain i'm scared to go into my brain dude i bet there's like pitchforks in there and shit all sorts of like sometimes i wonder. I was Googling it. There's something called a gamma knife surgery. Gamma knife surgery? Yeah, that might. Is your girl going to go get it for you? Okay.

Gamma, Jamie just found you an option. Well, I don't know. Hey, I'm no doctor here. He's a doctor. He just sidelines as a producer. Without cutting open directly, I think it's some sort of radiation treatment. It looked crazy. I'll pull up.

Gamma knife treatment. Need to bring you to some witch doctor. I mean, I can't imagine what you're going through, man, and what you have gone through. Oh, Jesus Christ. Then you go into a machine like this. What the fuck? fuck okay so folks that are just listening to this it says brain stereotactic radio surgery at the mayo clinic and it looks essentially like an mri machine uh and they got this guy bolted down his head well he's kind of screwed into this fucking harness so i guess he can't move and they roll you into this machine.

And what does this machine do? I think it then does this. I saw this picture in another video of it where I guess radiation just hammers your head. I'm planning on going to this place, the Mayo Clinic. They're going to make you smarter. That's what's going to happen with that.

You're going to get superpowers and shit. How dope would that be if you came out? If you came out of that and you could read people's mind would you tell i wouldn't tell anybody i don't think i would if i came out and i'd read people's minds i'd just shut my mouth and just let all these assholes lie to me that's a crazy looking machine man the fucking this the harness on the head holy shit that looks uncomfortable take a go to lady. That lady right there with the white thing. She looks so uncomfortable.

Look at her. She's like, ah, go in there with my head. Ah. Yeah. Are you girls at the door? Okay. All right, here we go. We got the scans of Raphael's brain.

Dun, dun, dun. So this is a treatment for cavernoma? I was looking up cavernoma, yeah, and this popped up. I don't know. I'm sure there's, since he's gone to see multiple doctors for it, that there's multiple treatments that are going on. This seems to be one treatment for a variation of it. That's interesting. When you looked up, like, how do you get a, I just started digging down a hole down a hole this is what i found the fact that you can do that while producing a podcast is quite

shocking sir kudos to you these are just the pictures obviously they look better on the disc okay oh shit i can see it from here wow dude that's crazy okay Okay, folks. Well, I'm looking. Let me hold this up so people can see. Particularly this one. Is there any, Claire? That's the one on the outside of the right. That is a fucking big-ass spot on your brain. Yeah, you can see there's a few in there. But that's the big boy.

But, yeah. All in all, that doesn't look good. But that's the big boy. But yeah, all in all, that doesn't look good. And that's what I saw when I was on my way to Brazil going to train. That would, especially, you're going to shoot the box. That would freak me the fuck out. You can see the little ones that are around.

But they weren't too concerned of those yet. It's the big one and a little bit of this one here that's more on the inside. It's not big, big like that one. And all of these are on the outside of the brain? No, just this one. Some of them are inside the brain. Yeah. The inside of the brain is what would scare the shit out of me.

That's crazy to look at, man. It's got to be weird looking at the inside of your head and seeing all the stuff that makes you you all your personality your memories all your skills all your knowledge all in there and it's got weird spots on it fuck man yeah that's crazy. It's heavy. It's it's still heavy. But I'm you should put that on your Instagram. Well, this is my my coming out party, I guess you could say. Fuck, man, that spot's creeping me out. the extreme ends are you live with this and it's never a problem your whole life. The other side is it's a problem right from the beginning and you have to have multiple surgeries and bad things happen. You know, people go into comas, seizures, um, even death. And so, you know, uh, you could have this and not have any idea about it, obviously, like, just like me. Um, and so in so many ways, the fact that I fought, you know, helped me understand because it was required for me to get this done. And thankfully, um, I found out now before anything happened, but

I want to learn more and try to understand this and see, you know, because so many people say, I mean, look, I can show you the doctor letter, um, from Dr. Wong and look at the percentages that he's talking about here. Uh, you know, 0.25%, you know um i don't know if you want to read it so his his concern is that well he doesn't have a concern the athletic commission's concern is that the the european commission has rejected you and then california is taking the opinions of a panel of doctors, some pro, some con, but you think that this Dr. Wong guy is the one who knows the most about it. He's the first one that I found. He's definitely the one that I've talked to that is the only one I've talked to that's actually been in there, seen it, done surgeries on people,

and helped people continue their careers that have it. And you said boxers and football players? Yes, NFL players. So those are two. He mentions that in his letter. Yeah. continue their careers that have it and you said boxers and football players nfl players so those are two he mentions that in his letter yeah what about jujitsu are you concerned at all that jujitsu with the you know the heart no no um i mean there of course there's us accidentally butting heads or an elbow or something yeah um no, but believe me, that day that a doctor did say that a choke or a strangle would be dangerous, and I had the thoughts running through my mind of never being able to do

jiu-jitsu again. You're such a geek guy. You want a choke like this. I'm totally... Well, I'm both. But you're both, for sure. to choke like this i'm totally well i'm both but you're both for sure i've done a lot of that i know but you automatically went look at these hands man look at that that's that's from gee wow this thing in my hand but what is that it's like a ruptured tendon or something i don't know it just burst and you just left it that way yeah basically it was like almost 10 years ago. Someone broke my grip and it popped.

But for me, it's like I train with my dad, you know what I mean? We roll together, my family teaching, all my students. But jiu-jitsu, that's going to be there forever. But jujitsu, that's going to be there forever. And, you know, it took a lot of soul searching and talking and just sort of meditating and, you know, getting to a place where because, you know, working so hard to get to this point, you know, and seeing those big shows and finally, you know, going to start getting paid well, you know what I mean? Like working up to that point. Yeah. I just got a new Academy and definitely was thinking that, you know, the, the, the championship fight paychecks were going to help pay off the, the investment that I put into the school, um, you know, and just different things that I, you know, have worked so hard for, but I felt like it was kind of getting taken away from me.

And, um, and I had to really process and talk to all my loved ones and, and I've gotten to a place where, you know, I'm, I'm, I know I'm going to be fine. Like if I never get to fight again, you know, I still have so many things to be grateful for. Life is amazing. And I just want to now, you know, learn more and hopefully through this experience help others that may have this condition or something else. If I can just help people get a scan and just know and be able to rest assured that they're okay or learn to find out that maybe they have something that they need to take care of in their brain. Now, is this a condition that will require you to get regular evaluations to make sure it's not progressing yes so how often do you have to do that now i think at least once a year if not every six months um just to see if they're growing or new bundles uh come together or whatever i'd really like to know if people have cured it or if if anyone has ever gone into a period of remission where the you know those

things went away yeah i've never seen or heard anything like that um yeah and they don't know what causes it's just some sort of strange genetic yeah i think it's hereditary um and i believe it's you know from what i've read it's more common in the Hispanic community. And that's the doctor that I saw in UCLA. He said that and he brought up being there in LA that he's seen a lot of Hispanics with it, boxers. But they were able to continue fighting. So I wonder how that worked. And that's what I'm trying to learn about and figure out and see if it's safe or not. I don't want to do anything dangerous to my health, but if it's possible and it can be done

in a safe way, I definitely want to continue. I just now feel like I'm tapping into my MMA black belt level now. So if doctors come to a new, more in-depth understanding of this disease and what the consequences or the risks are, it may be possible that they would say, you know what, we were a little bit hasty or we didn't have all the facts. Now that we do, we feel like you could fight. I think so. That's what I'm hoping for. Yeah. That's what I'm trying for. And this Mayo Clinic thing And this Mayo Clinic thing that you said you're going to visit, are they supposed to do that same thing to you? That crazy Bruce Banner thing? I don't know. I don't think so. I should ask them to do it just for the fun of it. Just find out what they can do. Yeah, I'm just going to keep trying to see the best people that I can.

I'm just going to keep trying to see the best people that I can. And so is there a guy, like a nationwide guy, like one person that stands out that's a cavernoma expert that you should see? Or have you seen basically those guys yet? Not that I know of. I mean, the Mayo Clinic was definitely brought up. UCLA, which I've already been. There is another doctor that works out of UCLA that now specializes in pediatric neurology. So he deals with kids now, but he was on the athletic commission. He was on the board.

He's one of their doctors for like 10 years, and we just found out about him and I'm trying to get in to see him as well to get more light on people that actually have, you know, sort of experience dealing with combat athletes that may have this condition. And, you know, just get more knowledge and see what's possible, what's safe for me. And like I said, if I don't get to fight again, I'm now in a good place to be able to accept that and move forward. But I'm hoping that I do, even if I'm 40, even if it takes that long and I could just do one more. So I can say goodbye, you know, on my own terms, you know, and have one more ride with my family, with my team. If that's what it takes, that's what I'm going to do. I just would love to have one more at least if it's safe. You've got to take some good feeling out of the fact that you were able to overcome that camp because that seems like probably one of the most trying times of your career i mean that that's to to go through all

that to find out about that while you're flying to curitiba blow your hamstring out get through all that stuff and still beat gregor monsasi to win the title i mean that it is that is an amazing accomplishment thank you thank you but it wasn't just me. That's, you know, that's what I really wanted to get out there. Like, if it wasn't for my loved ones, man, there's no way. There's no way I would have got through that. They gave me the strength. They uplifted me when I needed them. I felt like it was all of us, you know, and, uh, and I just wanted to make them

proud. I wanted to, I wanted to be the one that made them world champion coaches. You know, my, my, my Muay Thai and May coach Mauricio, he is so good, so special. And I wanted him to be able to say, I've coached someone to be a world champion. You know, he deserved it. I wanted to be the first Hiberto Shujitsu MMA world champion representative. You know, it was family. You know, we did that together. And, you know, I'm just forever, ever grateful for them. And you did it against arguably one of the toughest guys in Bellator,

if not in the world in that division. I mean, Gegard Mousasi had beaten Chris Weidman. He's beaten so many top guys. He's, in my opinion, one of the greatest middleweights of all time. I mean, he's just a phenomenal fighter. I was actually really bummed out when he went over to Bellator because I saw the negotiations go south, and I was really hoping that he was going to stick around. I wanted to see him fight for the title. I wanted to see him versus Robert Whitaker. I wanted to see him versus Yoel Romero, you know. So your accomplishment was even more impressive considering that you beat that guy. Thank you. I appreciate it, man. I'm bummed, man. I'm bummed for you, but I'm also happy that you were able to pull off what you pulled off.

And you have your health. And you can still compete in jiu-jitsu, which you obviously are incredibly accomplished at that as well. And think about how we were supposed to fight in L.A. first. Who knows if I would have gotten improved there right and then this doctor from Ireland somehow missed it he wasn't a part of the panel in the discussions before the fight it really was destiny that I was able to do that fight and I'm just so grateful that it happened and obviously I'm I'm very happy that I won, but either way,

the, where I had to dig to, to, to, to be successful in that fight and the experience, the, the journey learning so much about myself and, and the ride that we did. I mean, we had this dinner the night before, um, the fight and after the weigh-ins and everything with all my most cherished loved ones, you know, and they didn't know. They didn't know. Most of them didn't know, just a couple of them. And everyone took a minute to say something special about the process and, you know, me getting to this point and, and, you know, they're, they're my rest, my wrestling coach and jujitsu, Sala was there, you know, all these people, um, my, my parents, my girl, like they all said something special about the family that we have, us being

together. And then me, you know, getting to that, getting to that moment and, uh, everyone cried, you know, everyone took a minute and everyone cried. And, um, you know, that is something that will live with me for the rest of my life. And I'm just so grateful that it happened. And, and we got, we got to be there. And, uh, and, you know, because there's so many factors where maybe it wouldn't have happened. And, like, if we would have fought in L.A. the first time, who knows if I would have gotten approved. Right. But it went to London, and somehow this doctor didn't see it, you know. And, yeah, I'm just— Does part of you think it might be better if he didn't fight again?

Like, even if the doctor didn't approve it, does part of you think think like why why risk this it i can't say that i haven't thought that um you know uh but i feel like you know with the ones that are saying that it's okay it's just confusing it's confusing you know i've been very confused for months, for months. But that's why I just want to learn more. And Joe, I hope here very soon you get a scan done too. You know, I hope everyone out there does.

No, I really should. I think we all should. I think you're absolutely right. I think that's very good advice, especially coming from someone like you that just experienced this incredible turnaround in your life, this big twist of fate. So Bellator is aware aware where you stand um have they talked to you about stepping down and about uh having a new title fight or are they prolonging it and waiting to see with more results and more different doctors weighing on us we had a good conversation yesterday i got together uh with scott and rich and uh we all sat down and um you know once again they're being super supportive uh scott's like man keep keep fighting this thing like keep seeing more doctors and you know uh let's let's learn

more and see what's possible you know um and they've been very generous with the time you know, um, and they've been very generous with the time, you know, uh, and not saying anything to anybody. Um, and they were, they were okay with me taking more time. Uh, but I told them that I felt like this was the best route because I'm, I'm also sort of pleading to anyone out there. If you know, you have a lot of great minds on the show and a lot of great minds listening to this show. If there's some doctors, some neurologists, some neurosurgeons out there that, that have, um, you know, experience and, and would like to get involved in this process, please reach out. I would love to, to hear it, you know? Um, but, uh, you know, uh, they're supportive and, you know, they're willing to wait a little longer, um, or they were. And I said, Hey, you know, uh, I want to put this out there now. Um, and so who knows, I'm kind of giving them the

green light, uh, if they want to do something different here coming up in the spring and set up another title fight. Um, in my opinion, it should be Salter Musasi for the one 85 Salter has definitely earned his shot. He just got a big win. And if they did that, I would think those are the two most deserving people to fight for a vacant title. But like I said, I'm just going to be over here. This is what I'm doing. I just want to let everyone know this is what I'm going through and what I'm working on. And I hope to be back in a healthy way that everyone's confident with and, you know, rest assured. Um, but if not, you know, then I will, I will have to be saying goodbye officially at some point. Um, but I

believe that, um, you know, there's some, some, some things for me to still do with the company with Bella tour. Scott was open with the, some things for me to still do with the company, with Bellator. Scott was open with the idea of me being some sort of ambassador, you know? And, and, you know, in the meantime, I just, you know, all the other MMA fighters out there that are fighting, that have never had a scan done in places that don't require it, you know, hey, please get checked out, get checked out and just know, you know, whether it's this or something else, you don't know, you know. And man, don't take your health for granted. Don't take your health for granted. Well, listen, brother, you handed all this with grace and dignity, like a true champion. And I'm honored that you could

come on here to tell everybody about this and i think you probably did a lot of people a really good service i'm sure there's many many people that are listening to this right now that are probably going to go out and get scanned and hopefully we'll you know prevent some tragedy from happening but uh best of luck to you and everything and uh your jiu-jitsu matches and your new academy. Tell everybody where that is. Sure, yeah. So we just opened up a new location in Oklahoma City, closed down the other one.

It's a big upgrade, 10,000 square foot, just beautiful, beautiful place. There's still some work to be done over this next month, but, man, we're so excited. And just to see my students smiling and happy and excited about the new location and the new beautiful mats and everything is just really – it's been my focus to help get me through a lot of this. How do people find it? OKBJJ.com. Yeah, we're on the north side of Oklahoma City. 405-466-5255 is our number.

We should let people know it's not just okay. It's Oklahoma. That's why it's okay. It's fucking awesome jiu-jitsu. That's a good point. You're like, how good is your martial arts? That's okay. We're okay martial arts.

Yeah. Okay for Oklahoma. That is on the license plate, actually. It'll say Oklahoma is okay. And I'm like, come on, we can do better than do better than that yeah that's definitely you can do better than that but anyway brother thank you and best of luck to you

thank you so much for this opportunity thanks for being here man appreciate it bye everybody