The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #96 with Justin Gaethje & Trevor Wittman

Episode Date: May 27, 2020

Joe is joined by Interim UFC Lightweight Champion Justin Gaethje & boxing and MMA trainer Trevor Wittman.

Boom! Trainer of the Year, Trevor Whitman. You might be. You might get it. We'll see. You definitely have a short list. I got not that many athletes. So that's where, you know, when I won it two years ago, that was unique to me

because I went in there like, man, I don't deserve this. I remember having 40 athletes. And the guys who have all these athletes that's put in so much time, I had three athletes at the time. So that was cool. But, again, I think performing and doing good as a coach is one thing, but also, you know, putting in that full time when you're running a gym and having 40 athletes, it's a nonstop 60 hours. You're not

doing anything with your children. And that's, that's, but then when I seen the athletes talking on the screen and talking about, you know, Rose, talking about changing the world and just being good people, then I was like, oh, yeah. And I remember repeating to myself when I went through a tough time and lost all my athletes, we kind of had to split. And it all happened through when Nate Marquardt had that issue with the TRT. And, you know, I had talked about the gray area. You know, if you're going to allow someone to do that, you have that space. Like he instantly got shunned for it. And's got children he had a new kid on the way and i was just like man he got shunned we knew about it prior and i'm just like they said you

could do it but they don't know how to test the levels and that situation turned into a bigger situation and then i ended up starting over with athletes and i remember repeating to myself you're the best coach in the world. No one's better. And I remember just repeating. I had a new gym that was big, 13,000 square feet. I was painting it by myself. Then I just kept saying it over and over and over.

And then when I was sitting there that night, I was looking at him. And we won like seven awards that night, which is the three of us. And I was like, man, that's super cool. That's when it kind of hit. And I was like, oh, man. There's something to be said for having a small stable of athletes versus, like, there's some of these super gyms where a lot of guys wind up complaining.

A lot of guys wind up saying they don't get the attention they deserve. They feel like they're staggering or they're stagnant there. And it's just not – I don't think it's the right way. It's so different. It takes it back to my boxing days i only had three or four athletes at the most and i was running with them and and had them on my house and i was feeding them and they were at my house for camp and it was one-on-one for everything for the psyche i mean that's that's such an important part when it comes to fighting

outside of justin gaethje justin gaethje i learned from this guy when it comes to mental. He's just ingrained with the strongest mental, and I love that part. That's why I love working with Rose, because the mental part. But one-on-one is key. That is key to be with your athletes, and I'll tell you, it's like a hobby again. It ain't like a job. It's like passion. You never really want to do it for the money. You need to pay your bills. But the key is it's the athlete you know and you never really want to do it for the money you need to

pay your bills but the key is it's the athlete it's about them when justin when you came to trevor like how much striking experience did you have zero zero yeah no i was uh i had five amateur fights i had never never been in a street fight a one-on-one street fight a couple big brawls i've never thrown a punch never been punched and I got hit hard in my fifth fight. Almost got knocked out. I was like, man, I need to find, if I'm going to do this, I need to find a coach. So you had five amateur MMA fights with zero striking training. Zero.

I would just take, so right after wrestling was over, I would just be like, I want to fight. And then I was in the best shape of my life after wrestling season. Right. So I was a machine still, but I just had no skills. It was go out there and wrestle, take them down, slams. I got my nickname, The Highlight, before I ever knew how to strike, and that was from tossing people. Wow.

I'm going to tell you when he came into my gym. So I met him at one of the fights, and I thought he was a Japanese guy because I was traveling to Tokyo a lot with Dwayne. And his name, Geichi, for some reason, I pictured a Japanese guy. Yeah, it kind of sounds like it could be Japanese. And I was like, oh, my God, it was spectacular. The way he was throwing people and putting them on their head, I was just amazed. And I talked to him in the locker room.

I was like, dude, I'm a huge fan. Your fighting style is so unique. And then he's like, I'd love to come to your gym. So he comes down. He comes in. He's like, I'm here to fight to your gym. So he comes down. He comes in. He's like, I'm here to fight. And I was like, cool. And I'm like, all right, well, we're sparring today.

And he's like, cool, yeah, I want to fight. And I'm like, all right, cool, let's go back there. And I said, well, we're sparring today. Let's get back here. And he's like, do you have any gear? And he's like, what gear I need? And I'm just like, oh, my God. Like, you're out here fighting.

I take him to the equipment. And I was like, all right, get some gloves, get some shin guards. What year was this? This 2009 yeah imagine imagine that moment if someone told you 11 years from now you're looking at one of the baddest motherfuckers on earth i'd say it took me a week or two to know like yeah his mindset and the way he trained like this first session that he had was one of the most unique so i tell tell him about this equipment. I'm like, get your equipment on. I was like, get one of those headgears. And he goes, he jumps up at me and he's like, well, I gotta wear a helmet.

Like, no one else is wearing helmets. And I'm like, dude. So he's sparring with this guy named Vinny Lopez. And he gets hit with an uppercut while he's hitting Vinny with the overhand. And he turns around and goes, ooh. And I'm like, oh, shit, he's hurt.

So I go over to him. I'm like, you good? And he's like, that felt so fucking good. He's looking at his fist. And they bow cracked each other so hard, like KO shots. It was nice. And from that time, I was like, dude, you are super unique. I was like, I've never punched somebody like that before.

I was like, I know that fucking hurt dude he's like you know Vinny looks like a mean he's all tatted up neck down Mexican you know looks like he's straight out of prison he's Puerto Rican I'm gonna say that for Vinny he's Puerto Rican he looks mean dude he's mean mean. He looks mean. And yeah, I was like, I gotta go with him. They're like, yep. I was like,

all right. And then I hit him. I was like, oh shit. But real quick, before I forget, the one-on-one thing, I was saying,

you've heard like five, six guys, as we've been going through these fights, say how they appreciate the one-on-one time. And that's, going back to what that was, I don't want to miss that earlier when you were talking about that.

That's the biggest thing for me. He's at every single one of my training sessions talking to me like he was talking to me in my fight for sparring. When he needs to throw the towel in or call the fight, he knows. He watches me every day. And this one-on-one thing is what these guys are understanding is so important. It's everything. When it comes to fighting at the high level. It's having that unique relationship with a trainer.

Having a trainer where you and the trainer are tight like that. Like DJ had it with Matt Hume. There's a lot of guys who have that kind of one-on-GSP had it with Firas Ahavi. That relationship is so critical. It's so important because you're going in there together. You're helping each other you understand you've you know his whole process from beginning literally with him you know his entire fighting process from the beginning the first time he was there like that

that's invaluable man these guys that are jumping into these super camps and the person is just sort of giving you random general motivation in between the corner telling you to keep your hands up work the jab although you know that's not enough it's not it's it's not optimal i really feel like the optimal relationship is a trainer that really knows the athlete well and is with them in every in every training session 100 i think uh there's a huge issue first off, big training camps are key just because of the partners. I mean, you will get champion-level fighters out of there because you're seeing all different styles. You're seeing wrestlers, grapplers, southpaws, all different sizes.

So it's great for that. And you adapt to different athletes. The hard part with that is most of the guys train jiu-jitsu somewhere else. They go somewhere else for their conditioning. They go to all these different places, and all the coaches, they mean well. They're all like, oh, man, you're six weeks out. We've got to train hard. And you're going from one hard session to the next hard session to the next hard session.

And when you're with them all the time, I pull back a lot on him. And that's the key to peaking. Like a lot of times people just push hard, push hard, push hard. And that's another huge issue in this sport is over training yeah guys get flat i mean it's it's again that injuries in the sport are are common all the time and most injuries are happening in training when you pull back are you doing it based on just your general feeling of how he looks and how he's performing what he's saying or are you using heart rate variability, using like a whoop strap or a heart rate monitor or anything? No, a lot of those are tech. When it comes to those types of things, my intuition has always played best for me.

And knowing each athlete, each athlete is different. Some athletes need to fight at a different heart rate than another. They perform better at a steady, high heart rate. Some need to spike. Like in the beginning, when he loved to fight, he loved to see people drown and their eyes open. So we trained like that. He wanted to be the most exciting fighter. So I'm there to make sure I'm

hitting his goals, not my goals. I'm there for the athlete. I train every athlete differently. And it's all about purpose. What's your purpose for fighting? What do you want to be? And his has changed in the last four fights four fights ago he actually said he wanted to be a world champion and before that I want to be the most exciting fighter in the world and it was about going out there causing those wars and and in the gym he was sharp and could box and it

could really do some athletic stuff but he loved to see people drowned it's just amazing how technical your striking is considering the fact that you've really been only doing it for 11 years. I mean, you're one of the best, if not the best striker in the 155-pound division. That's a fact. And that clean sharpness of your fucking left hook, man, is one of the best I've ever seen. It's so fast. And so there's no fat in there. He's been telling me one day, you know, your left hook's going to be your best punch.

And I was like, what are you talking about? Dude. And, yeah, man, I'm just, I played all sports. You know, growing up, I was a pitcher. I was a quarterback, punter, kicker. You think there's a benefit in that? Yeah, I mean, throwing a right hand is throwing a baseball. You know, my kick does not necessarily, I'm just kicking them as hard as I can.

Now it's placement, timing is the most important thing there. But those mechanics that I developed through those playing other sports, I think, has helped me so much. Just my athletic ability. And then once I found, you know, this man is a genius. I can't tell you how the process that he started 10 years ago. You know, I had no idea. I still don't know what the heck we're doing um i'm telling you it's just you just listen it's i i you know how how high you want me

to jump that's all you know every day i step in there that's what i'm asking him and um he is an artist you know his mind you know i can't see even when he's we're talking about you know our onyx equipment he's telling me these things and i'm like you know i can't put it into my head i can't see it but i you know i know and then once it's a finished product it's like holy crap same thing when i fight you know every time after i fight i'm like holy shit i can't believe you know we've been working on this for 10 years but more specifically the the specific details that i that i executed in that fight last fight you know we had a short time and there was really certain things that we,

he instilled that I had no idea he was instilling. And, you know, it just came to fruition on that night, and it was spectacular to watch. It's spectacular to go back and watch after a fight, every time, every fight. Trevor, how important is it for a guy to be a coachable athlete, too? That's one of the things that you and Luke Caudillo both said after the fight, that he's the most coachable athlete uh that's key that's the whole thing is i'm there to assist and uh you know i i i put myself as the co-pilot like i'm there to draw the map and you've got to trust me around

these corners like you're the driver you're the one that that knows but you have to trust me and to be able to be coachable i mean if not i not, I'm just a water boy. You know, and that's why I'm only coaching a few now, too, is we gotta be in this together, and you gotta trust me, and I gotta be there for you, and if you trust me, then every decision that I make for you, you've gotta trust, whether

it's, hey, don't take this fight. I mean, with the fight, the last fight, I was like, no, you're not taking the fight, and he's like, come on, coach, this is the Tony fight, when he first got offered for the first last fight, I was like, no, you're not taking the fight. And he's like, come on, coach. What fight is that? This is the Tony fight when he first got offered for the first time. And I was like, no, we're at spar session. And he's like, why not? And I'm like, because you said you'd never take a short notice fight. I'm like, no.

It was like 11 days, right? Yeah. But we've been trading hard. Like, then he hit me with all these points. And he's like, dude, with the coronavirus going on, who cares? He's like, let me get in there. I need to fight someone right now. I need to release all this.

And his little basic points, I looked at him. I said, all right, are you going to do it again? Are you going to stick to your goal on the next one? Because I might let you off on this one. And he said, I will never take a short notice fight. That's why the second time it was offered, he was even more pissed about it. He was like, the other one was seven days out. I got nothing to lose. I'll go out on my shield so this is the let's let's be clear

for everybody the first time was the the lamor california one the tai chi powers 18th yep april 18th and that was how many days out so i got the call i think it was 10 or something no i think it was uh it was like 15 days before that fight. I got the call one night. The next day I went. I called him. He said no that night. Went to sparring the next day, and then that's when I talked. Not talked him into it, but I did like seven hard rounds.

Felt great. I had been sparring so much, and so he was like, I was like, let's do it. I talked him into it. And then so we go hard, and then I think it was, when did they cancel? I think it was 10 days before the fight they canceled it. And that's when, you know, it went out the window. And then they called me. So did you just fall right out of camp or did you keep training?

I was down to 168. They called me at like 3 p.m. And that night I went to sleep at like 182. I went hard. I went, you know like 1.82. I went hard. I went, you know, just terrible choices. I was like. What'd you eat? What'd you eat?

What's your go-to? I went straight to, it's called McGill's World of Ice Cream. I got, you know, double scoop with the waffle cone, and then we ate Pizza Hut for breakfast the next morning. We had pancakes. I had my cousin, Basquito, there with me. He was helping me, you know, with my he was helping me you know with my cooking and helping me around the house

during that those hard you know 20 days and yeah we went hard and then three days later they called me

and they're like you know it's May 9th and I was like fuck that I was like I don't take short notice fights

it's like this last one was you know 10 days I get the benefit of the doubt of it being a late late notice fight and now they want me to do May 9, you know, 10 days. I get the benefit of the doubt of it being a late notice fight.

And now they want me to do May 9th. You know, that goes out the window that, you know, me, now it's not really a late replacement fight. It is, but it is for me and it is in general. But, you know, the general public would think, you know, he got a full camp and this is a real fight, blah, blah, blah. So I was like, no, like, I'm not doing it. So let me get this straight.

So you're not doing it because you fell out of camp and started eating again? Because – so the 20-day notice was, like, something very special. Like, that was something – I definitely could have performed and I would have performed. This is the April 18th fight. This is the April 18th. I think I would have performed and I think I would have have won I wouldn't have been as confident I was I was terrified when they called me that night I was terrified I couldn't sleep the next day I woke up terrified um because I knew I knew that this is not what I do this is not how I do it this is

but because you weren't fully prepared because there's no way to fully prepare in that amount of time right my mind my mind when I go in there do, I have to get my mind in a very, very special place. How much of it is that and how much of it is physical? You know, I don't know. I don't have that question. I can't answer that question for you. But here's the question. I don't process that.

That's not something I ever process. What I'm saying in this way, though, is how physically prepared were you? Were you in training? Yeah. What I'm saying in this way, though, is how physically prepared were you? Were you in training? Yeah. So I was the main training partner for Neil Magny,

Austin Hubbard when they fought in Vegas. Oh, okay. I was in shape. I was in shape. So the second fight, let me jump in here. The second fight I thought was a way better place to be from a conditioning standpoint because he was already in shape prior to the first one. We just went two weeks so hard. Like we were trying to get his body in shape quick, and that's a hard thing to do.

Then he went and gained 12 pounds, which we were four weeks out of that point, which is perfect because the fourth week out, I always pull back on and let the body recover because your third and your second week are our peak weeks. Those are the weeks that we need to really hit prime and really push hard. And it was a perfect fit. I'm like, dude, we take this time off. You're going up and eating. Now you're ready to go again.

You got that little fire back in your body because you're able to eat whatever you want. And I thought it was perfect timing from how I train my athletes from a conditioning standpoint. And I actually had to talk him into that one. I was like, this is even better. Like, this is perfect for you for a five round. So for your perspective, it's like he had a chance to recover, eat all that food, take a little break. And that's good because your body gets to charge back up again and then grind back down. Because six and five on week six and week five are hard weeks.

They're like a start to those last two weeks of peaking because our fight week, we slow down a little bit and we just turn the engine on, turn it off. So we go six and five on the weeks are really hard. Then we pull back on week four. We'll take like three days that are really light and then push it a little bit. And then week three and week two are the ones

that I'm trying to get him to peak, get hit five rounds. We're not doing six rounds. We're not doing seven. We're making sure that we can go five minutes hard for every round, be sharp, not get lazy. And I thought it fit perfect, too. So when you're saying week two, you mean two weeks out? Two weeks out, yep, right before we leave for the fight. What do you prefer?

Like if you had a blueprint, like they came to you, Trevor, how much time do you want before a fight? Like we'll schedule it around your time. If you're in decent shape, eight weeks. If you're out of shape, 12 weeks. 12 weeks, because you take three or four. If you don't lift weights for a little bit, and then you come back and lift weights, and you haven't lifted for six months or three months, you're going to get real sore.

Yeah. So you've got to have that break-in process where your body, because your body's going to be shutting down, and you start to, ugh. So you have to get through that process. It's just the pre-training. And then you start to hit it hard because you can't just go in hitting it hard if you're 12 weeks out. You just can't. It breaks you down.

You're going to get hurt. Yeah. So why did you feel that that was not a good fight, the main nine fight? So I had no idea. My body would respond as well as it didn't. I didn't think I could be ready to 100%. I've always done 12 weeks. That's all I've known.

That's all I've ever known. So you felt like the first decision was just like a split decision, is the middle of COVID-19, fuck it, I'm going to do it anyway. And then when they came to you the second time, you're like, no, no, no, no, I want a real camp. Yeah, so why can't we just push it to May 26th? Right.

Give me three extra weeks, then I get my whole eight to 10 weeks. Right. And that's all I asked for so that was my mindset when they called me because I knew they were going to call me

the day before I was like watch they're going to fucking call me and they're going to want me to fight May 9th or something like that and I knew it and then my manager called me

he's like May 9th let's go I was like fuck that I was like no he was so mad no I was like fuck that I was like I ain't no fucking puppet I'm not going to dance

when they want me to dance I was like I said I don't take late replacement fights. This is now a late replacement. This is different circumstances. These aren't the circumstances everyone... Even he was flabbergasted. He's like, what are you talking about? It's the same thing.

I'm like, no, it's not the same thing. To me, it's not. Because, I don't know. Confidence is everything. I know I can perform. But you wanted everything to be done right. It was the biggest fight of my life. Right, of course.

But ultimately, and then when I thought about it, I was like, if it's anybody's fault, it's my fault. Because I knew I was going to fight again. And I was training hard, but I wasn't training with the mindset that I need to have an old-school wrestling mentality. You have to see the prize. Every single morning you wake up, the guy, the guy that you're going to fight, that wasn't there. That wasn't there when I woke up in the morning. So I didn't feel like I was preparing in the proper way for something that was at this level in my life. So you don't just need 10 weeks for your body.

You want it for your mind as well. That's the most important part to me. I've been training since I was four. My body is a machine. I didn't know I could get ready in that amount of time. That's what it comes down to. I had no idea because I've never tried it.

But I had done better between fights since I fought Cowboy than I had ever done between fights in the fact that I was staying in shape, running. I had a treadmill at my house. I was still sparring. I took like two months off sparring, three months off sparring. But then I was sparring for three, four months before I got that call, you know, to get in there and fight. You made a crazy shift in your career in that you started off as this wrestler.

But when I first started watching you fight in World Series of Fighting, I was like, look at how this motherfucker throws leg kicks. It was kind of crazy. Like, you would throw leg kicks while you were working the body like in close like even very you know everybody's got their own sort of way of moving like everybody's body mechanics are different but you were throwing these like crazy in close leg kicks like you'd be like on top of people and you were chopping at their legs when did you make this shift because you don't take anybody down now, which is kind of nuts. If you really think about the fact that you were an All-American wrestler and your base is in wrestling, you have not had a single fucking takedown attempt in the

UFC. No, but I got taken down for two seconds when Michael Johnson rocked me. I don't know how they count takedowns in this sport, but it's certainly not like wrestling. Not a legit rocked me. I don't know how they count takedowns in this sport, but it's certainly not like wrestling. Not a legit takedown. Yeah, it's not. Eddie and Dustin tried to take me down, but I scrambled right out of that.

I was a great defensive wrestler. I wrestled Jordan Burroughs twice. The first time I stopped his double leg for two and a half periods, and then he pretty much collapsed my sternum and I couldn't take a breath for three months after that but I mean then it then it then I gave in you know then it broke my body broke and I couldn't stop it no more the second time I wrestled him I stopped every single you know double-a he had nobody

stops that double-a I don't know it's you bad motherfucker shift between being a wrestler to becoming. Yeah, so I was a defensive wrestler. I was never a great offensive wrestler. It was so hard to take me down. When I was All-American, I started in the pigtail round, and I beat three, number eight seed, number six seed, and I think I beat the number 10 seed or something.

But I gave up the first takedown in every single one of those matches and then they broke because of my defensive pressure you know I was constantly hanging on them and my leg kicks wrestlers they like to separate wrestling from fighting I'm just doing this I'm just doing it both in the same thing

in the clinch the clinch is where I'm the most dangerous with those kicks that you're talking about that's if your hands are on you can feel where their weight is shifting which way they're moving which way they want to move and um it's just constantly getting to put all their pressure on on a foot and fire a kick uh from that range and that's all wrestling that's i'm using my wrestling so much when i'm fighting like it's when that's when i hear people say and it's so hard to see that with the even with the untrained eye or say and it's so hard to see that with the even with the untrained eye or the trained i'd be hard to see but i'm wrestling so much in there

right i understand that but that's interesting that your wrestling allows you to do that from the clinch because you have a better understanding about where they're putting their weight because you're manipulating them around yep and then when they have the weight on that leg you're chopping that can't check if your weight's yeah you cannot pick your leg up to check. I was so bummed out I didn't call the Michael Johnson fight because I was a big fan of yours. And when you were coming to the UFC, I was like, oh, shit. I was like, this is going to be fun. And then when I found out you were doing that Michael Johnson fight, I was like, fuck.

I'm like, I can't call that one. I'm not going to be doing that one. And then I got a chance to watch it. And I believe it was the night before we had a card. So I watched it in my hotel room on my laptop and I was like, god damn. There's a few fights

and I'm like, fuck, I wish I called that fight. Because that fight was madness. That was just madness. I've had so much fun with him in the corner. I've giggled a few times and right before he got stopped by poyer he said something to me in the corner just made me crack up he says down and he's like he don't even

hit hard and i just like i just look at him and i'm just like dude you just have so much fun in there and he really enjoys the fight like he enjoys the process and you know i've worked with a lot of athletes and when they when when most say it, they don't mean that at all. Right. They're psyching themselves up. And he is so unique. Like, he loves to be in there. When it's fight night, like, he'll say – he said it to me twice, and I was like, oh, really?

Because he's like, I'm fucking nervous. And I'm like, really? And he's like, because I'm not nervous at all. And I'm just like, I get that laugh right there. I don't understand why I can't do anything. I don't understand. He's like, dude, it's fucking weird. He goes, I just lost my last two fights.

That's when he was fighting Vic. Vic, yeah. And he's like, I'm so nervous because I'm not nervous. I should be. I was like, this is big, dude. I need to get up. I was like, I need to be on point. I was like, I don't understand why I'm not feeling anything.

Yeah, the Vic fight was very interesting because that was one of the first times we got to see real animosity from you, too. You were genuinely pissed off at him. I could tell he was talking a lot of shit about how you're a human punching bag and he was going to knock you out. You could see you were genuinely angry at him. I was backed into a corner.

I'm a human, man. I had to fight back. So, yeah, I was defending myself mostly, but I was in such a tough spot coming off too long. I knew what I had. I knew I had the skills. I knew, and it was just— Well, both of those fights were very close fights, too. Very similar.

And both of Eddie Alvarez won fight of the— So Michael Johnson, Eddie Alvarez, Dustin Poirier, my first three fights in the UFC, 2017-2018. They were voted top three out of five. That's out of 958 fights. That's what I did. And I only got paid half for those two fights. That's what hurt me the most. Well, they were both real similar, too, in the fact that you almost stopped both those guys with leg kicks.

And they were similar in the fact how I lost. I became complacent. I was having too much fun. I forgot that I was fighting the best of the best. And I love it too much, you know, and not having the crowd there, I think it helped me so much. And I think it's going to – whether there's crowd or no crowd in the future, I think it's going to benefit me so much because I was able to understand that the crowd does influence my emotions.

And my only rule is never allow someone or something to affect or control your emotions. And I wasn't aware that the crowd was having that effect on my emotions. And the fact that I would have engaged more. I would have taken more chances in that fight with Tony. And I didn't do that because I think I was able to be in control of my emotions for the whole time for every second that's interesting because that fight was so wild if there was a crowd there for that fight holy shit that was i would have engaged it would have been a crazy crowd i mean if that was t-mobile arena holy shit i mean that would have been madness that fight was so great that would have been madness. Totally. That fight was so crazy. It would have been crazy.

But it was super unique to be able to be a part of something like that with no crowd. So it was super cool. He's going on and saying that he would have. I don't know if he would have because if you look at the three fights prior to that, there's a huge difference in your range and your balance shoulders. He's outranged. You outranged Vic. You still pressure, but he's got balanced shoulders now. He used to be front heavy, and that was a pressure fighter.

Weight was on the front leg, and he was pointed with the head. Now he's level shoulder where his range is just crazy. Like with Tony, Tony was like he couldn't find you with your range. Right. And your speed and your balance. Which is Tony's strength. The footwork. Totally.

And Tony will push you back, hit you with combos all the way back to the cage. Ours was dominate the center of the cage and use your footwork. Like, keep them off balance. And that's what he's done well in his last four fights. And we shifted game plans completely when I had the conversation with him because he was like, because after the first loss, it wasn't much change that he wanted. He still wanted to fight that way. After the second one, he's like, I need to change something.

I'm like, what's your purpose? You were the most exciting fighter, and what do you want to be? And he's like, I want to be the champion. I was like, then you have to be intelligent. You have to be intelligent. To be the best fighter in the world, you've got to be the best defensive fighter. Don't change who you are, naturally, but you have to understand defense. Defense starts with position.

Always starts with position. You have to know position. You have to win every position. Well, you came into a real crossroads, right? Because you were this incredibly exciting contender. You come into the UFC, giant prospect. Everybody's excited. You have this fucking chaotic

war that reaffirms everybody's hopes and aspirations. Like, this is what we were hoping. Justin Gage is going to come to the UFC. Holy shit, this is going to be wild, man. This motherfucker doesn't care. He throws down. You throw down with Michael Johnson, like, ah! And then you have those two losses in a row, and people think, okay, is he in over his head?

Does that style only work on the lower-level guys? And you get to championship-caliber guys. Dustin's never held the title, but he's a championship-caliber guy. And so is Eddie Alvarez. He's a championship-caliber guy. He held the title, but he's a championship caliber guy. And so is Eddie Alvarez. He's a championship caliber guy. He won the title. So you're looking at those two guys like maybe when you get to that point, maybe he's not ready for this or maybe he doesn't have the style.

So then you make this adjustment. So tell me what that was like. You sit back. You guys have this conversation. You say you want to be a world champion. And then what changed in your head? So he can tell it so much better than me because for me it's it's i can't explain it because for it's never been anything um it's just do what i'm told to do when i show up and work my hardest like that's all it is every day for me i didn't i didn't make

a decision i think it was a choice, obviously. But you said you wanted to be a champion now. Instead of being the most exciting fighter, you wanted to be a champion. Yes, yes. What was that shift? I always wanted to be a champion. I thought I could be a champion.

I was undefeated. I thought I could be a champion with the style that I was fighting because I was not losing. I had seven amateur fights, 18 professional fights, 25 fights in a fighting because I was not losing. I had seven amateur fights, 18 professional fights, 25 fights in a row. I had no idea that I needed to change. I was just going in there and I was breaking people.

I was like, I can't not break anybody. I'm going to go in there and break everybody because everybody's breaking, you know, just for some reason. And then when I lost to Eddie and Dustin, or Eddie and, yeah, Eddie and Dustin, it was this, I watched them many times, and I understood that it was the same mistake. You know, you can't get hit. I was winning. I thought I was winning those fights.

Judges' scorecards maybe don't resemble that, but I thought I was winning those fights. The night after I fought Dustin Poirier, I went out and took 200 pictures with all my fans at the bar um he was you know in the hospital probably or guarantee he wasn't on his feet because he didn't walk for a month um so i just understood that no matter how bad you cause damage if they don't go down and they land that shot then you know it all goes away. And I got paid half of my money. I didn't understand. I never got paid half of my money. Ever.

Oh, you didn't. Did you know? Or did you not think about it? I knew, but I never thought about that shit. I don't like that. No. I don't like that. For people like me, I wouldn't argue for the whole roster.

And there's very few like me. But I'm going to go to war for myself when it comes to that. You're going to fight your hardest no matter what you're saying, and you don't need that bonus, the win bonus to motivate. Yeah, you're not going to incentivize me to win to save my own life? What the hell do I need that for? I don't like it. I don't like it for the athlete.

And I think there's oftentimes where you would say, oh, it forces guys to try to keep it out of the hands of the judges. Well, that's crazy. You can't decide that. guys to try to keep it out of the hands of the judges. Well, that's crazy. You can't decide that. I'm going to keep it. That one statement, don't leave it in the hands of the judges. That one statement drives me fucking crazy because that's not how to fight. That's the one statement that drives me the most crazy.

My mom said it once, probably four years ago. I was like, Mom, don't you ever say that again. I was like, don't you ever say it. And then I told her why. I was like, these guys are trying their hardest. You think they're in their minds. Like, Mom, don't you ever say that again. I was like, don't you ever say it. And then I told her why. I was like, these guys are trying their hardest. You think they're in their minds like, oh, let's leave it to the judges. Let's leave it to the judges. Like, no, they're just fighting for their life.

Right, exactly. You know, and chance didn't fall in their favor when it comes to a knockout. Whatever you want, however you want to put it. Yeah, I mean, take away all the criticisms that we all have for judging. And just the idea that somehow or another you can make this decision to go knock this guy out who's a world-class fighter who's trying to knock you out. That's a great way to get knocked out.

And when you're fighting, you have to fight correctly. And I think me watching as an observer, what shifted with you is you just seem to be more calculated in your aggression. All the aggression is still there. Yeah, the Vic fight. Just spots. He fights in spots. Barboza fight, dude.

You got right on top of that motherfucker, and he's one of the scariest strikers in the division. You got right on top of him. That was a super impressive knockout because you figured the distance out perfectly, but you put a tremendous amount of pressure on him. But your distance was excellent to avoid. You were avoiding, but you put a tremendous amount of pressure on him. But your distance was excellent, like to avoid. You were avoiding, but yet you were still there when you wanted to hit him.

Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, thinking. Going in there with the, you know, to be methodical. I never had a method. There was never, there was, my only method was create car crashes. Create a car crash. Be the, there was, my only method was create car crashes. Create a car crash. Be the, you know, physics. Both have the same weight.

Right. You know, same force. Create, if I can create more force and be there first, then I'm going to win this car crash. That's usually how it works. And the issue was, when you're fighting in a high heart rate, you get your lazy spots where you start to get on your heels a little bit and you lose your accuracy, you lose your sharpness, you lose your power,

you're maxed out in your heart rate and that's why his finishes, I feel like you're way sharper now and you still fight like, you're always going to fight the way you do. It's in you. You love to fight. But in spots is key. You're still walking them down. You're still pressuring him. You're still being able to do those things.

We didn't change much outside of now he fights in spots. It's an amazing adjustment. What did I say specifically? I never specifically went to you and was like... No, you said you wanted to be a champion and I was like, we've got to get a lot more technical. That's all I ever said. And we talked about spots. We said you've got to fight more in spots.

So it was really... Also, too, when I'm watching him spar, I watch every session, and I tell him, you know, you're going too hard and you need to pull back. This one go out and you're only able to use your lead hand. So now you can't throw power. You can only control someone. And he'll still walk people down, but it takes away him throwing so many combinations or hucking four at a time, you know, and he's able to create these patterns that's better.

You're controlling range, you're controlling position, and then waiting for mistakes. The best fighters in the world can always match a good match, but it's the first one that makes a mistake is the one who loses. That's where, and momentum is so important in sports. Momentum is everything. That snowball, once it starts to build, it's so hard to recover and turn that around in high competition. It's a mental thing. But when you can control things and control

and control and then find one mistake and then you build on that mistake, you're like a wave. You slowly get a little bigger and you slowly get a little bigger and now you start to capitalize because once they make a mistake, that pattern is starting to create. And then once you got someone make a mistake after mistake after mistake, that's when you crumble on them.

And I feel like that's what he's done really well. The three fights prior to that, he was just able to capitalize on the big mistake. But credit to Tony. Tony is one of the most gangster dudes in this sport. And for him to go through the damage that he did and continue to walk forward is something unique. It is one of the coolest things to experience as a coach to sit there and watch his mental

not change. Even when he, because I was calling for the ref to stop the fight about halfway through the fifth round. And when he got hit with that last jab and shook his head, I don't think it was a point like, oh, I don't want to go on no more. I don't know if it was the orbital, because I know he had an orbital issue, but there was something going on where his body is telling him not to do it, but his mental's like, no, don't stop.

Keep going, because he's still kicking and punching. Even with the big old gash on his shin from the check, he was still kicking. He never flinched. He never flinched. He was getting cracked. He'd get knocked backwards, and then he would go from backwards right back to forward. It was super unique to watch but again it was it was great to see someone who can listen and understand uh that if you stay in control yourself that's the key to everything in this

world if you listen to anything else on the outside and you start to adapt to other things you're never going to live the way you want to live. And to be a fighter, you have to be in control of yourself all the time. I always say the best fighters are the best actors, the ones that can trick their self. Fake it till you make it till you get to the championship. And you have to live that way. You have to obsess never being broken. And even if you break, accept it and then on to the next.

Don't deal with it. Oh, man, I had such a bad day. That's one of my biggest pet peeves that I hate is hearing someone, oh, man, today was a shitty day. And I was like, yeah, there's going to be many more shitty days, but accept it. Yeah. You know, love it. Does you zero good to sit around and talk about shitty days. Totally.

And I have fighters say, man, you're always saying just positive shit. You're always just like it. And I'm like, hell, yeah, you got to love every part of it. Like, I'm going to say beautiful at any point. When I see you get hurt to the body, I'm going to crack up. He got kicked in the cup. He had a big old cup. The last fight, he got kicked in the cup.

He turned sideways, did the move we were talking about, we call it moonwalk, where we turn lateral, you don't get the squareness from the front kick. He did it perfect and he stepped back and aimed at his cup and I'm like, how'd you get hit in your cup? He had a George St. Pierre cup on. The cup too big for the tights. The tights are too tight. And I laughed and I was like, dude, he hit you in the cup and big for the tights. The tights are too tight.

And I laughed. And I was like, dude, he had too big of a cup. And I was just having fun. What kind of cup do you use? He forgot his cup. He forgot his cup in his mouthpiece for this last night. Yeah, so the UFC always has one. They just grab one for them.

What? The UFC has a cup? Just laying around? No, no. They're new cups. I'm not the only one that forgets their cup. Oh, okay. So what do they give you?

This one was actually a really nice cup. Just a cup, and I stick it in my underwear that has a little pocket for the cup. Jesus Christ. He trains with no cup. There's so many people. I've never sparred with a cup on. Don't train with cups. You know, guys lose balls.

So Dwayne Ludwig. Jesus. Guys lose balls. Dwayne Ludwig. Jesus. Guys lose balls. Dwayne Ludwig had to get carried out, put in the back seat, and went in for some type of surgery. And I wasn't there for that one. Ball surgery? Dude, he got kicked in the ball. And the dude that kicked him in the ball had to accept the fight for him and take the fight that he was training for.

But every time he takes a ball shot, I don't let him stop. I'm like, get up. Wear a cup. Why would you not wear a cup that sounds so crazy why never got hit in the balls yeah you didn't wear a cup in wrestling i never wore wrestling but this isn't wrestling cups cups are for life and death situations what sparring is not that yeah but you can get kicked in the balls and lose a ball. We've had this conversation. They ain't touching my body. I offer, every time I step into sparring, I announce 90% of the time I got $500 for anybody that can drop me with a body shot. Drop you with a body shot?

What about a body? But you got kicked in the balls in your fight with Tony. That was a front kick, like an up kick, and it wouldn't have hit my balls if my cup wasn't so big. That's true. That is true. Honestly, do cups do, do, especially in boxing, because I never did mixed martial arts.

I did boxing, and boxing cups are the worst. They're those no foul protectors. Those big ass things. Dude, they don't even, it just sits in the front of you. So you take shots up here, and it smashes you. It's like the worst. Have you ever used one of those Diamond MMA cups? No, I see people kick it.

I see people getting kicked with them. I do need a cup, though. Dude, I have some of those laying around. I see people kick it. I see people getting kicked with them. I do need a cup, though. Dude, I have some of those laying around. I'll give you one. All right. Diamond sent me a gang of them. I fucking love them. I wear them from jiu-jitsu.

They sit in compression shorts, and they're tight. That would probably help, though. It helps. My nuts get smashed all the time in jiu-jitsu. Jesus Christ, dude. I don't think I've seen that shit. Wear a goddamn cup. But are they allowed to wear tie cups, steel tie cups?

Yes, they are. I actually seen in one of the fights, because I didn't know if they were able to, because they're steel. But I seen the string coming out. I had to tie up James McSweeney's cup one time, and I'm like, bro, how are you wearing that like that? He had the string going up his ass so bad, like a thong.

So tight, and he's like, tighter, coach, tighter. And I'm sitting there, and I'm yanking on this thing, and I'm like, dude, how are you going to fight like that? But it ain't going to move. It ain't going to move. And if someone kicks you, it fucking hurts them. I could not imagine. Kenny Florian used to fight with a tie steel cut.

Yeah. Listen, man, the ties know how to do it. I mean, nobody gets kicked in the nuts more than them, right? I mean, they're just throwing leg kicks all the time. They slam shins in the ball sacks all day long. And they figured out a way to make that something that you don't want to do. Completely.

But it's also a giant lever for arm bars. I've heard about that. When you're grappling, you can really feel it. Oh, my God. It's illegal in a lot of Brazilian jiu-jitsu tournaments for that reason. You've got both your hooks in, digging into their back, digging into their spine.

Or a mount. Mark used to do that shit to me. I'm like, dude, you son of a bitch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had a guy in our gym that wore one, and he mounted me and stuck it in their back. They get it in their spine. Or a mount. Mark used to do that shit to me. I'm like, dude, you son of a bitch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had a guy in our gym that wore one, and he mounted me and stuck it in my sternum. I'm like, what the fuck, man? So where's pain? It's like he's got a giant rock, and he's just shoving it into your sternum.

So when you're sparring, you don't ever feel vulnerable that your balls are just kind of like jiggling around there? I mean, I wear some tight boxer briefs, so they're not hanging out. And you're like, all right, whatever, let him do it. Hey, so again, I— He loses a ball. That's a real problem. That's his outside issue. I work for the athlete.

That's one thing that is super unique for me, that I'm not going to be your father. I'm going to train you. I'm going to give you everything I got. But this is your life. I will going to train you. I'm going to give you everything I got, but this is your life. I will save it in many ways I can, but if you're not going to train for it, I'm not going to just sit there and annoy you for it. That is the biggest I told you so ever.

When you lose a ball. When I was a catcher, I didn't wear a cup. It's crazy, right? You got to protect yourself. You ever see that video where got two hands Who was it Dwight Gooden Throws that ball And the bird explodes

No that was Randy Johnson Randy Johnson Really I would wear a cup If I was Cassie Perrin With a long old Bullet Have you seen it

He turned his leg All the way up He had a big tall dude Have you seen the I haven't seen that one The bird exploding It's kind of hilarious He's pitching for the Diamondbacks

So he throws his ball And this bird flies Right into the line of fire And explodes It explodes In a burst of feathers Really Yeah I remember him pitching He was like the fastest pitcher So he throws his ball and this bird flies right into the line of fire and explodes. Explodes in a burst of feathers. Yeah, I remember him pitching. He was like the fastest pitcher at the time, right? Middle of the game.

Middle of the game. Middle of the game. So the bird's flying. I mean, here it goes. Look at this. Oh, sorry. Look over here. Oh.

Look at this. So he throws it and just perfect timing. No way. Yeah, it just randomly explodes so that that's the bird flopping off over anything it just it just defethered it it defethered every feather he cleaned it so you could cook that like that yeah you could cook it yeah right there basically you could end that fucking birds he basically stopped it in its tracks perfectly. It was like the perfect collision. I mean, so what are the odds of that happening?

Unbelievable. That'd be really effective in golf. He had a birdie. Oh, yeah. Sorry, that's low level, Joe. Think about your balls, please. I'll get you one of them Diamond MMA cups. Think about your balls.

It's a cup of ball. Okay. Jesus. Coach, talk to him. Okay, Jesus, just coach, talk to him. There's a.00009% chance Randy Johnson would hit a bird with any given pitch. How do they come up with that number? Mathematicians.

How many pitches have been thrown? There's only been one out of that. That's what I mean. How many birds are on the planet mean That's probably what made that And then as they continue to go on that's going to change Until they hit a second bird Never once had a bird been hit with a pitch in the history of baseball Before that faithful day with Randy Johnson

That said, each game, team throws around 150 pitches Multiply that by 200,000 You get 30 million So the answer is roughly somewhere In the ballpark of 1 in 30 million Per season Yeah, per season I guess Yeah Every year for many years. So the answer is roughly somewhere in the ballpark of one in 30 million. Wow. Per season.

Yeah, per season, I guess, huh? Yeah. That's crazy. If you were not playing major league and someone did that, no one's going to believe that story. No one would believe that. Yeah, you'd be like, what? Yeah, my buddy threw the ball. And right when he threw the ball, the bird just perfectly lined up. Like, your buddy's an asshole and he threw a ball at a bird.

Tell the truth. Took every feather off. That's funny. Oh, my gosh. Think about your nuts, please. Totally. I got you. I got you.

Okay, thank you. Diamond cup. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I have a bunch of them back here. And he'll be the best father. Like, he is so good with kids.

Didn't he work up, man? Yeah. I got to find a girl first. Protect the jewels. It's the first part of the equation. Yeah, but don't find a girl right now because that fucks up more fighters than anything. The wrong girl. I won't pick the wrong one.

I'm sure you won't. But sometimes you don't think you're picking the wrong one. You think you're picking the right one. Then they fucking take their mask off. They're pretty tricky. Oh, they're so tricky. Some of them. Some of them aren't tricky at all.

I tell you, I was done. I found my wife't tricky at all. I tell you, I was done. I found my wife, my best friend. I tell you, she was a key to, I say, all my success. She was someone who supported everything I did, which was so different. And, again, having that backbone and having someone to support you is key. You've got to have the people that are there for you. When I have the day where I feel weak and I'm like, oh, man, I really just don't want to do this, she's like, get up and do this. Like, you got this.

And then the days where she pulled me back a little bit. And it's just having that balance is key. But in this industry, when it comes to athletes and especially the level that you're at, it is a scary thing. I've seen it change so many people. And it's not just the women. It's outside influences. This is one thing that I love about this guy is he is the same dude from day one. And I've had so many athletes just become something different.

You know, they get the shell on them. They just become different. And he's just a grounded dude. I call him a yes man because every person that knows him is like, hey, man, come over to my house to dinner. And he just can't say no. He's like, all right, cool. I'll be there. You need me to bring anything?

Well, that's a good kind of yes man. It's just a great, great thing. Like he's so good to his family. He's so good to all of his friends he is uh very unique very unique and it's always the nice dudes like you see him from the outside you look you think hey man meathead you know like he's at one of the most intelligent four people type of fighters and some of the nicest guys are the ones that perform the best. They're the ones that's going to help a lady across the street but they fight for something

and that's super unique. There's something to that because I think guys who don't have the burden of guilt like laying on their head that they're an asshole like even if you

unless you're a sociopath if you act like a piece of shit no matter how much you justify like I'm the fucking man who gives a shit in the back of your head

you gotta know you're a piece of shit. False confidence. Yes, it's false confidence. That's why everyone's so scared to make that walk. Or you reword it. There's no reason you should be scared. If you've done everything, what are you scared of?

You probably didn't eat the right things. You probably didn't go to sleep the right time. You probably drank too much alcohol. You did something, and no, you can't lie to yourself. He's talking about being an asshole, though. That's part of it as well they can reword that and be like I'm the shit

the piece of the shit it's a psyche right I'm the shit I've thought about that with a lot of fighters that they get into trouble I wonder how much that fucks with them and also in today's day and age with social media,

if you're an asshole, if you do mean things, people find out about it and they're like, that guy's a piece of shit. Fuck him. And then you feel the sting of that. And then you're getting out there and you're getting booed and you see that fuck with guys. It makes a big impact.

Those are the hardest guys to retire to. once they don't have it no more it's it's a rough thing that's that's a hard been a hard thing for me as a coach is is seeing the end yeah and that's why i'm so into like like life coaching not just coaching it's coaching them about life that hey man you're the same dude as anybody out here you're challenging yourself yes you are doing something at a different level and going out there and chasing things but don't let it change who you are to people and because you have everything now you when you're a champion you go into any restaurant they're going to give you free dinner feed your family doesn't matter who who's with you but when

you lose all of a sudden everybody drops their head they feel bad for you they're like oh my god that's the guy that just got knocked out and it's very hard to step away from and you see guys that continue to fight for way too long because they need that feeling. They need that invincibleness again, that stardom, that kingdom. And that's hard for me to watch because that's a challenge. And you see a lot of people go down the wrong end from that point. It's also their identity. Like when they're not fighting, they don't know who they are.

Because, first of all, fighting is so much more exciting than anything else you're ever going to do yep so if you get used to these gigantic highs and then preparing and then the nerves of preparing and all the the anticipation of these big events fighters have the riskiest job in the world outside of first responders soldiers and people along those lines. I mean, you're literally playing a game called, I'm trying to throw my bones and separate you from your consciousness, and you're going to try to do that to me, and you're doing it publicly in front of everybody. So there's emotions, there's physical, you know about, everybody knows about the damage that it does to your body.

There's so much riding on it that for fighters, when they leave that and then they go to a regular life, like a lot of times it's very difficult, very difficult to make that adjustment. That's why so many of them come back. Yep. And that's why it needs to be guided from day one. Yeah. And again, it's like you have to have a time. Like your goal, you have to set goal sets. We've talked about when your time is up and how long you're going to fight for. You have to set those goals. You have to be a time. Like your goal, you have to set goal sets. We've talked about when your time is up and how long you're going to fight for.

You have to set those goals. You have to be true to them. That's like not taking a last-minute fight. You have to have your goals set into place. And once you start to break those rules, you're really not grabbing the wheel. Right. You're letting it coast. And then that's where you start to spiral downhill or go off track.

And I think that's super important because you can only do any sport for so long. But all athletes, like even in NFL and things like that, they think they're going to play forever. They have this mindset that you're going to play forever. But it's so hard to see what happens to them after the lights go out. Yeah. Very hard. Very hard. Most athletes, pro athletes, wind up going broke.

Very hard. Most athletes, pro athletes, wind up going broke. I mean, the vast majority of NFL players are bankrupt within just a couple of years of retiring. Same thing with NBA players. And mentally bankrupt. Mentally bankrupt. Where they can't earn. They don't want to earn. They almost get self-sabotaged.

Like, again, it's, you know, I'm kicking my ass. Again, they start to beat their own self up. Yeah. And that takes a lot of work to, I mean, that feeling after being in that octagon and winning is the highest of high. You know, I've never, ever experienced anything like it. but I focus, as soon as I leave, I really focus on bringing myself down and not being too high for too long because with the highs come the lows.

And I don't, I try to, I'm constantly in the middle. So when do you do that? Like right after the Tony fight? Like how long after? I walk like two minutes after. I walk, you know, you're going through the whole process, but that whole time through the process, it's like, you know, for one, you ain't special.

You're not special. That was awesome. But back to normal. Now it's immediate. Immediate. Right when I was talking to you. I was like, my finger hurts, but other than that, it's like. You seem pretty normal.

Yeah. The only thing that wasn't normal that you threw the belt away. You're like, get that fucking thing out of here. I want the real one. Yeah, I don't know why I did that. I mean, that's a competitor in me, you know? Dustin won one of those and as you stated, he was never

a champion. But he did win an interim title. He's championship caliber, and so was Tony. I mean, Tony was an interim champion as well, but interim titles are very weird. It's a weird thing. I kind of think they shouldn't exist.

Yeah, it's definitely not a real belt. It's more real than the BMF belt, but... It's just one of those... Every time I hear that, I think of Cowboys, like... Ranch. Yeah, just Ranch. Because you've got BMF everywhere over there. And I always think of that.

Yeah. I mean, it's called the BMF Ranch. Yeah. Yeah. The BMF belt was fun, but it was fun. Yeah, just ranch. Because he's got a BMF everywhere over there. I know, right. I always think of that. Yeah. I mean, it's called the BMF Ranch. Yeah. Yeah. The BMF belt was fun, but it was fun. Yeah, it was. I loved it. It was totally fun.

It was awesome. It was entertainment. And remember, belts, whether they're interim or not, you get pay-per-view by. So, again, we've got to look at the pros and the cons. I don't know about that belt. It does benefit the athletes. I hope so. No, I'm talking about the interim.

It better come with it. No, I'm in. Yes. It should. right? I'm in. Yes. That's why. It should. That was one huge factor. For one, I've always said I don't take late replacement fights, but I've never said I don't take late replacement world title fights.

This is way different. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Just the implications. It was different. You had a statement. One of the things you said when you first entered the UFC, you said, I'm going to put on some incredible fights,

and I'm going to lose, and I'm probably going to get knocked out. Nobody says that. It's crazy. It's true. It's the craziest thing. He says it all the time. I'm like, stop saying that shit because you're going to trick yourself. I'm going to get knocked out.

But that's the key to him. He doesn't hesitate. If I do anything as a coach, I've got to pull him back. And that's a great thing. Like, I've been a motivator my whole career. The psychology, I'm a great technician. But my psychology is tricking people to win. It's how do you get out there and do it?

And making them to believe you have to force your head into something to make something happen. You have to go out there into something to make something happen. You have to go out there and fight. And that's hard for a lot of people. This guy is like pulling people back is a great thing. It's like that's still hard to do at times. Like not with him, but the fighters just go too hard to hit rage. And rage is hard to settle down.

When someone hits rage, like someone says something about your mama, I'm always like, they don't even know your mama. Like seriously, stop that shit. Like stop. Well, there was a great moment after the second round after you got hit with that uppercut where you you came back to the corner and you told them take something off your punches take about 10 off just hit him a clean shot so you're trying to murder him with every shot and then you made that adjustment and that that's that was really interesting because a lot of times coaches will tell stuff to fighters and the fighters probably know somewhere in their head, but it's fucking with them that they're starting to get tired. It's fucking with them that they got hit, and then they lose some composure.

They get emotional, and they go out there, and they wind up making mistakes. You immediately adjusted, and you went out there, and you would see like by the end of that second round when Tony hit you with that shot, people were like, well, maybe this is a shift in the the direction of the fight nope the the shift was the opposite way you came out in the third round more technical and you came out and did exactly what trevor said yeah so we worked long and hard on on that um i trust him with you know with everything as he said you know we wouldn't be he wouldn't be my coach if I didn't trust him with my life and with everything I go in there to do.

Fuck, what the fuck? So when he said that to you, when he said take 10% off. The crazy thing is you only see 10% of the interaction between us in between rounds. Right now I'm actually talking to the UFC trying to get that whole thing. But, yeah, I got hit hard. You're talking to the UFC trying to get that whole thing. But, yeah, I was – You're talking to the UFC trying to get what, the recordings? He's trying to get his audio from his mic. Oh.

Because – You want to hear it and watch it? Yeah, because I don't remember it, you know? Right, of course. It's so fast. Just like when he come to me in the fifth round and I was laughing. I had just asked – the reason I was laughing is because I had just asked him. I said, was that the end of the second or third round

and they're like this is a fit round I was like no fucking way I'm in that good of shape I was like no way and that's when that's when they cut in you know so you don't see

there's so much you don't see in that interaction between me and him it's so important for fighters to see that adjustment and how his endurance

leveled off because it was like you were having these wild exchanges, and you were fucking hitting Tony. First of all, Tony Ferguson is made out of metal. It's crazy. What in the fuck, dude?

Especially when you're talking about a body type, like you were talking earlier about someone with a frail body type. He doesn't have a chiseled neck. Right, he's not built like Mark Hunt. But he is. It's so unique to me. He's so tough. He's so fucking tough.

Is it a choice to go to sleep or not? But there's also a key. Like, if a fighter can take something on understanding coachability, it's like you have to have your reactions, but you also have to have your responses. Like, reactive stuff is like jabs. Positional stuff is reactive. Like, you have to be able to react to positions first.

I love jiu-jitsu because it's position before submission. You have to react to positions before anything I love Jiu Jitsu because it's position before submission. You have to react to positions before anything else. So there's reactive stuff. But the responses is why you have a co-pilot. To help you see what you can't see and start noticing that. Or how are you playing defense

and using a jab to find openings where you're still working, but you're thinking and going, oh, every time he does this he's dropping his hand. And you're able to see things. That's where you have to be responsive and you're thinking and going, oh, every time he does this, he's dropping his hand, and you're able to see things. That's where you have to be responsive, and you have to be aware in the moment, where a lot of times people can't.

They just bite down. They just bite down on that mouthpiece, and very similar to the way you used to fight was bite down, their eyes are getting big. That's my response is like continue to do this, and they're going to fall. And again, that is a very important point is a coach and the athlete understanding. I am there to help you with your responses in the gym. I'm going to

create your reactions. I'm going to create your patterns, your basic fundamental patterns. That's going to help you win positions and slightly win rounds where you're controlling the fight. The other pieces is how am I slowly creating momentum to get finishes? How am I slowly creating momentum to get finishes? It was pretty stunning how well you adapted and then also how your endurance leveled off. Because you did seem like you were slowing down a little bit at the second round, but it was because you were sprinting, because you were throwing these full power fucking haymakers.

But then when you leveled off in that third round, then it was like you had an endless gas tank. Then it was interesting. You're in control of yourself. If you're making decisions, it's a lot easier on your psyche. When you're trying to just fight out of things all the time, again, you're not in control. If you can't control your thought, you cannot control your breathing.

How stunned were you that Tony could take those shots? In the fight, there's no point where I even understand you weren't thinking at all just throwing them you know it was crazy the shots i hit you know john or uh vick barboza and serrano with i was so surprised i went to sleep um you know i just i didn't understand why i think it was position mostly but yeah yeah, when I was hitting him with some of those shots,

especially the one when I came through and he was throwing an uppercut, I couldn't believe he didn't go to sleep with that. But I go back to the Michael Johnson fight. When he hit me with that left hand, there's no reason I shouldn't have went to sleep then. So I haven't figured that part of the equation out. See, when he knocked out Poirier with that same punch. One of the sharpest left hands. And I was turning through it, and it was on the chin.

It was everything a knockout shot should be. I don't know why I didn't go to sleep. I got to figure that part out. I know how people go to sleep. I don't know how they don't go to sleep. It's random. It's weird. I mean, sometimes guys take head kicks, full-on head kicks,

and they don't go to sleep. It's position. It's position. Everything is position. Well, I tell you, can you base? Can you lock down? Did you see it? Did you see it?

That's huge piece because if you don't see a yank brace in forward, so you're letting your – it's, again, linear or rotational is what's causing a concussion. And when you don't see a shot, those are the ones that cause the most damage. If you're able to brace for it and bite down on the punch, it's a lot better. So a lot of times when you're seeing two hooks, both people hooking. I throw like this, I turn away, and then all of a sudden I come and I don't see it. I'm causing that head-on collision, but I'm not braced for it. I'm not leaning against the wall where if I see a hook coming,

I've got my head carrying my weight and able to take the shot. So a lot of times it's the shots you don't see coming, and that's the timing. But there are people who will punch you in any moment and you're going to go to sleep. Yeah, punching power is so weird. That's like one of the craziest things in this world. If it was, Tony would have went to sleep. I'm telling you, I've seen people who don't hit. Vic and Mabuza were on one foot when I touched them.

Hey, your low kick? So was Cali. My low kick for many years wasn't thrown with the right technique, but when you kick people, they're like, oh my gosh, you have a sharp, heavy bone.

It's so unique. You got dense bones. I got the densest bones in the UFC. There you go. So there's a spot. Yeah. So they've done a scan on you?

Well, they said they can't confirm or deny I got the densest bones in the UFC. They can't confirm. They can't run it out. I know, right? No, yeah.

They can't run it out. We got these stats. They have a DEXA scan at the UFC PI. And you lay there, inch by inch, scans your whole body, tells you what you're made of. Your bones are denser than Yoel's? I would assume so. That seems crazy.

That guy doesn't seem like he's from this planet. You know, they sent him. You want to hear a crazy story about Yoel? I've repeated it on the podcast, but I'll say it anyway. When he had some sort of a fracture of his orbital they sent him to a doctor and the doctor examines him and then calls the ufc and goes where did you find this guy and he goes yeah he goes he's a fucking specimen huh he goes no no no i've never seen a human like him he goes i've been practicing medicine for more than 40

years he goes the the ligaments the tendons in his eye are three times larger than a normal humans they're like everything about him and and I was Dana told me this and I was talking to Dana about it and I was talking to my friends who know the the whole Cuban program program over there the cuban athletic program and of course he was on the cuban olympic team they said like do they they did some fucking experiments down there son they did some 100 experiments it's not just incredible genetics which for sure he has but like he might be a part of some goddamn right you know like there's there's a few like karelin they used to call him the experiment. The wrestler from Russia.

That guy who was built like a fucking superhero and just threw people around like ragdolls, 300-pound men. It's crazy. They would try to flatten out so he couldn't hoist them up. And he'd get his hands under there and fucking... And just hoist them over his head. Like they called him the experiment because his parents were like 5'5". He had these little tiny parents. And he was this gigantic gorilla.

That's crazy. I wonder if there's any doctor out there that's ever talked about me and said, man, you have never seen a specimen that's just all ligaments and bones, right? He's missing muscle. He throws everything with perfect technique because he has no muscle. He's not trying to muscle shit.

Well, there's something about guys that are strong. In jiu-jitsu, it's actually kind of a disadvantage for learning because you can power out of things so you don't develop proper technique. Power through technique. Yeah. Like, you want to learn, learn from a little guy like a Hoyler Gracie or Eddie Bravo or these small guys. They're not overpowering anybody.

I think there's something to that. I wish Gracie was. Yeah, perfect example. Perfect example. And then with striking, it's kind of in a similar mode like the the really technical guys Are the the guys who have like Floyd Floyd's not knocking anybody out in one punch kind of has to be technical He's you know, he always had brittle hands. He was always hurting himself That's a you know that that is a cool thing about boxing is the sweet science How many years has it been around?

And there's just so much involved with that. But you're seeing a huge shift in MMA where it is, like, so, so, so special. With your fight, it's super unique. Again, going back to position and footwork. Like, the footwork is the key. People will talk about the punches and pulling stuff off the punches. But from the eye, when I watch it, i'm just like man it's it's keeping someone off balance where their step is one just a point of a second behind you you can control the

timing you can control when you punch and that is such it's a dance there's there's a lead when there's two dancers there's a lead and you have to lead the steps if you're leading the steps you got them coming to you and that's creating that pattern and man we can just like that's one of my favorite things to teach is just footwork like understanding position how do you make someone a one-handed fighter uh or only able to use one side of their body because they can only put one weight on one side and timing the foot when there's a foot off the ground they can't base they can't block until that foot hits the ground so it's those in between beats but those are the spots that i could just geek out about and just have so much fun. But the technique is so key.

People who are born with gifts and going back to how people just punch differently. Some people just, whether it's heavy bones, some people you look at them and their technique is nothing. And you're like, holy cow, they can hit. Yeah, some people just have crazy power. Like we were talking earlier about Alex Pereira, the guy who fights in glory. That motherfucker knocks everybody. He's the guy who knocked out Stylebender. He knocks out everybody.

He's got crazy power. And he's built strong. He looks like a strong guy, but there's something about his power that it's greater than whatever you would expect that comes from him. Chris Lieben. You remember Chris Lieben? Oh, yeah. Not built like an athlete at all.

And the guy, every time he hit someone, they were reacting big time. And you know he had thunder in his hands. He really did. And he could take a shot really well, too. That's, again, a super unique thing is those taking the shots. He would plant his feet hard. He had a base. Very plotty, very heavy base. Yeah.

But that cost him when he fought Anderson. Oh, yeah. Anderson timed it. Another sharpshooter who would hit you at the certain times where you can't, like when he caught force coming in and attacking him. Just beautiful. Working backwards and still creating that much leverage and causing a head-on collision as you're pulling your hips away. Super unique.

It's all timing. I always say I have like six songs going on in my head during a fight. It's like a reggae song. There's a country song. Do you? Do you have songs going on in your head? That's what I'm dancing to. I'm constantly changing rhythms.

And if you're constantly changing rhythms, they can't find a pattern. If they can't find a pattern, you can constantly catch them in between them trying to find it. And that's what I'm doing in there. My feet are dancing. Are you actually thinking of the songs? No. You're just moving like as if you were...

It's my intuition. I'm never on one beat. If you watch my fights, I'm on 10 different beats. Just to mix it up and to be unpredictable and to offer different looks? To make them, because the first thing that happens in a fight is distance control. Someone's going to control distance. It might shift early, you know, back and forth, but it's going to be established within the first minute.

That is the most important thing of any fight that will ever happen in a fight, I believe, because once that's established, the person who establishes it is going to be able to control the rhythm. And then once you can control the rhythm, now you can make them dance to your tune. Once they're dancing to your tune, you're fucking smoking them. As a coach, when Tony Ferguson decided to make weight, even though the fight was off,

and then wound up fighting just a few weeks later for real, like the April 18th fight, the Tai Chi Palace fight, he just decided to make weight. And a lot of people were pretty impressed by it, me included. But then a lot of people were saying afterwards, like, hey, what if he has to fight again in four weeks? That's like, you got to pay for that. He's not a 155-pound guy.

You know, he's a 170-plus-pound guy. He's not young. No. 37? Actually, we were in contract to fight again. He still was going to make weight. Yeah. Yeah, but I—

I weighed 178 that day. He's like, you want to make weight? I was like, hell no, I'm not making—what are you fucking talking about? Well, you know, I had all them donuts a few days before. I don't ever look at that stuff, Joe, and think anything because, again, I'm starting to think about them and get distracted. Right, but as a coach, forget about the fight. The fight's over and gone.

I'm never a person who sets something in stone and say that's a good thing or bad thing. Every person is different. Like if they fight at a lower weight and it's cool for them and they need to hold that weight better and you're going in a five-round fight compared to a three-round, there's so many different variables that go into it I've got to treat each I don't know like

I honestly probably would almost all the time I'm not going to say never but yeah probably not going to do that but mock cuts are good for you if you have issues making weight sometimes a mock cut is good because it gets you down to a point first and there's so many people

that cut so much weight the week of the fight that i think that's a huge issue so i really didn't look at it as that big of a deal i was like you know what it's better than just waiting to the last minute because that is where there's huge danger in this sport what how much do you cut not a lot this this was the easiest cut of my life. So you diet down, you train down, and then you cut how many pounds? When I got there, I was 165. Oh, not bad. Yeah, but you hit 63 twice prior to going there. Prior to going there, I hit 63 twice the week before.

None of my guys cut a lot of weight. I don't allow it. I think it's the most dangerous thing. I think, again, it's not natural for your body. You're detoxing everything. You're taking everything out of your system. And again, what weight are you really going to fight at? On Thursday night, we started our

work. We did one workout at night and I was 163.4 when I started. We worked out for an hour and 20 minutes. And when I got off, I was 156.6. And I was amazed at how much I had just cut.'s amazing so yeah so i went to bed i went and drank eight ounces of uh coconut water went to bed woke up 156.2 156.4 oh wow worked out

for 20 minutes sat in the sauna for 10 and then i was on weight oh that's amazing it was the easiest cut of my life that's amazing yeah so that's you just got it dialed in perfectly my body is i've been doing this like people make fun of me when I say I've been doing it since four. But my dad caught me sneaking tamales into the bathroom when I was like six. I've been doing this my whole life. Like I am. My body is a machine. It knows once it gets down, we get to go. We get to go right back up. And that's, you know, my mind internally. But, you know, it knows. One of the things you said that I thought was really funny. I hope Tony know my mind internally but you know it knows one of the things you said that i thought was really funny i hope tony breaks my nose so i can get it fixed yeah

everyone uh everyone talks about how i talk for one i talk fast i've always talked fast sounds like i'm mumbling but my nose doesn't work yeah sit there plug your nose and talk you know see this is the same thing i can tell hearing it because i my nose used to be broken too i i had it fixed i had the deviated septum but uh this goes back to the dense bones i heard it in december um season ends in march i got it fixed in april and it had healed already and the doctor he said i drilled i tried to drill through that side but i couldn't get through that side because your bone is too dense what yeah that doctor sounds like an asshole't get through that side because your bone is too dense. What? Yeah.

That doctor sounds like an asshole. Right? That's ridiculous. The college paid for it, though. Oh, yeah. So this was a long time ago? This was when I was 19. Split my lip, too.

You also just have to think about the fact that you're just constantly getting hit in the nose. Yeah, I don't regret it. I've never gotten hit in the nose in a fight. That's why I'm waiting. But in training, you do. They hit my forehead. never got hit in the nose in a fight. That's why I'm waiting. But in training you do. They hit my forehead. They don't touch my nose or my chin. Really?

I've seen so many people get surgery. And it's, again, it gets, so Shane Cartman, he got his surgery. First bar and session back, fuck, coach, broke my nose again. You're building up the cartilage. And, again, almost there's been three people through the gym that's had surgery and ended up breaking their nose again. I recommend building up the cartilage, and again, almost there's been three people through the gym that's had surgery and ended up breaking their nose again. I recommend it when you're done. Yeah, I wish they could clear it out.

Yeah, exactly. I know about building the cartilage back up. Yeah, that's what Vanderlei did, which was crazy. He became a different human. Right? But he had the worst flattened nose I've ever seen in all my years of watching combat sports. Shane had my nose fixed. He had broke my nose.

Like daytime I had it broken. And it crawled right back. But, man, I could breathe good. Everybody's like, man, what happened to your nose? And I'm like, man, it slowly fell back into position because it's been like that for so many years. He had broke my nose in sparring. I was so beat up in training. Shane Carwin?

Shane Carwin. I started sparring with him because he Shane Carwin? Shane Carwin. You were sparring with Shane Carwin? I started sparring with him because he couldn't hit me. Hold on. Hit the brakes. How much do you weigh? Wet, like 160. And you're sparring with Shane fucking Carwin?

Oh, yeah. So my hands were so bad hitting mitts with him. He hits so hard, Joe, that it's crazy. So I got to understand what everybody was talking about with his gloves. They were like, man, he needs different gloves. And I'm like, he's got winnings, he's got the best gloves. They're fine. They just stop being a bitch.

And he'd hit me and broke my nose with a jab. And I was just like, holy shit. And I'm walking him down, and he came through one jab, and I went to go step in and opened up my guard. And he hit me. He's like, and I turned around. I'm like, damn, man, you broke my nose. And he's like, I didn't break your nose, coach. And I was like, I turned back. I was leaning over to the side. I look back at him like this, and He's like, and I turned around. I'm like, damn, man, you broke my nose. And he's like, I didn't break your nose, coach.

And I was like, I turned back. I was leaning over to the side. I look back at him like this. And he's like, oh, shit, coach, your nose is broke. And yeah, but it. I like how you make all your fighters, you gave them the worst impressions ever. I think it's the best. I have fun with it.

They all talk like this. They all will see you. So I used to call him Negative Nancy Kerrigan Carwin. Shade Gizer Kerrigan Carwin. I like to have fun with the guys and entertain myself with them, especially with a big dude like him. I was like the little dog barking all the time. Well, in between fights, people don't know how big he got.

Oh, my gosh. He hits so hard. Like, I couldn't take the shots no more. Like, on my hands and my arms, I was like, dude, we have to work. You have to get time in. And I could still help him sparring. Well, I remember when his nose was broken when he fought Gonzaga. And then he hit Gonzaga with that six-inch punch.

Dude, crazy. Just like falling backwards. Just hits him with this little boom. And Gonzaga's whole body just shuts off. It's crazy. No, he was an enormous guy. Oh, yeah. That's broken. And look, he's laughing. Crazy, dude. He's a fun guy. Oh, yeah. That's broken. And look, he's laughing.

Crazy, dude. He's a fun guy, though. I'll tell you, there was one time in a fight where he was on top of the guy. And he was dropping these shots on him. And he hit him one time. And the way the guy's body moved, it looked really weird. I thought he just killed him. He hit him so weird.

And the way the guy's body bent and went numb, I was like, oh, my God. You could feel it through the cage, like underneath, the echo underneath when he was hitting the dude and his head is pinned against the canvas. He is a unique dude. That dude hits so freaking hard. Well, I remember his stoppage at Frank Mir. That was one of the most ferocious stoppages I've ever seen in the history of the heavyweight division. He's hitting him with those fucking uppercuts.

I had a collar tie, and he's hitting him with uppercuts. So in that fight, he had so many situations. He was drinking a beer a night. He had a stem cell thing going on in his neck that he didn't know if he was going to be able to fight. He took it on like three weeks' notice because the Brock Lesnar fell out. Ended up injuring his hand. So if you notice, everything was left-handed. He was like 30 bucks in them, and I had to ask for him to bump.

And he bumped the shoulder and then went boom, boom. Hit him with like three uppercuts and then he folded. And then he turned him on his back and was just clubbing him with the left hand. And he was so injured going into that fight. It was crazy the way he was able to perform. Really? And then when he went on a strict diet, he's like, oh, I'm eating damn rabbit food, coach. And he got all thin and he was eating this great diet.

Mentally, he wasn't there like when we fought Dos Santos. Dos Santos. And again, that was a tough fight because after the Brock Lesnar fight, every question was about his conditioning. So Shane Carwin, if he goes out there and fights the first round, like you're fighting one round fight. We're stopping the fight after the first round. I don't think anybody gave it to a first round with him. But when he pulled back and he started going, hey, I need to see if I can go five rounds. Oh, man.

Because he went with Brock and he gassed out. Yeah. I remember with them all, we're sitting there screaming. We're screaming on top of the lungs. And we're like counting to three and then screaming because the crowd was so loud. He couldn't hear us. And he's on top of them just pounding Brock out. And we were like, you need to stand back up.

We wanted to get back up because the ref was just letting it go, letting it go, and if he stood him back up, he's going to drop him again and fight's over. And he gassed himself out. In the second round, he's like,

coach, I can't feel my legs. I can't get up. And I'm like, you have to fake this shit and get up. And I figured once he gets out there, he gets hit one time, he's going to,

the silverback's going to come back out. But he went out there. I remember he got taken down by Brock. He held onto the chin as he went down. That's how tired he was. He grabbed the chin and just going to come back out. But he went out there. I remember he got taken down by Brock. He held on to the chin as he went down. That's how tired he was. He grabbed the chin and just got to lay back. But he's a unique human being. He came that close.

That close. That close to stopping Brock. But he was always so damn freaking angry. He hurt him so bad standing. So bad, yeah. And then when he got to the ground, Brock was just able to cover up. And then he blew his wad just trying to take him

out of there. Yep. He thought the ref was going to stop it. I did too. Yeah, I think everybody in the crowd, the whole energy,

but I was like, we were like excited, excited, excited. They were like, oh my God, he's got to pull back. You see like the Dominic Cruz, Henry Cejudo fight,

which kind of controversial stoppage. You know, Dominic's trying to get back up and the referee stops the fight versus that fight where, you know, you're seeing all these unanswered blows it's so i would much i would honestly much rather a fight be stopped early than for it to let it go on because the toughest job out there is the referees i tell

you they're a lot of times they it's hard they got to perform too they go out there they stop a fight too late and then they're like next time they're like, oh man, I've got to stop the fight early. It's tough. You're out there. The referee's got such a tough job. They do. But sometimes. But it's got to be safety. You're letting people go on there sometimes where I'm just like, never let that guy ref again.

It's like taking years off a fighter. It's crazy. Yeah. Some guys give guys too many opportunities. I thought it was Herb Dean in your fight, right? Yes. Yeah, I thought that was a perfect stoppage. Me too.

It was perfect. And it's rare that you say that with a guy who's still standing and moving back the way Tony was in a world championship fight. He never went down once. Never went down once. Crazy. But it was getting to a point where the shift was just happening and his body was telling him he was really, really out of balance.

His legs were starting to go a little bit. He was going to be a same dog. Exactly. That was not good. No. I don't ever want to take that beating. He would have stopped it before that happened. For sure.

I already know that. Trevor would have stopped it. Yeah. It was you? Yeah. Yeah. Nobody could stop it in Tony's corner. That's the other thing is Tony's kind of, I mean, he has a jujitsu coach.

He has a striking coach. But Tony marches to the beat of his own drummer. Yeah. I mean, he has a jujitsu coach, he has a striking coach, but Tony marches to the beat of his own drummer. Yeah. I mean, he's got a whole disco band going on in his head.

He does whatever he wants. Rose against Carlos Barza. I take 100% credit in there because we never talked to who the head coach was. It was just so chaotic. I mean,

she threw so many damn kicks. She looks so damn good, but there was no control in the damn corner. I was so pissed at myself. Like, that was one of the hardest hardest fights that's when i let the gym go and said hey man i need to do this and and do it with passion and and and really take this serious because i was so bothered by that i almost was a cheerleader prior to that fight watching her on the ultimate fighter perform with no coaches and her just do her thing like she's so damn talented she finished everybody

on the ultimate fighter then she came in for that title fight and i was so upset with myself that yeah i didn't have the conversation i asked the coaches a lot of who's that corner who's who's the ones calling the shots i was so upset and that kind of situation it is that it's very easy for teams like if you look at tony corner, everybody in that corner is great. And, again, sometimes that conversation just needs to happen and saying, hey, who's going to come in the corner to win? Who's going to say what? There's got to be someone that takes control of a corner.

And that's why I use less coaches now. He's got his brother in there because I feel like, again, a lot of people have great things to say. But we have to stick to something. I remember working a corner with a wrestling coach, and I'm working on clinch stuff, and he's working on wrestling and taking them down. And I'm like, we're contradicting what we're saying right now.

Like, who's talking? And someone's got to be able to say, shut up. I'm going to have one voice at a time. And you have to have that. You have to have that. You have to have those conversations. So when the Nate Marquardt situation happened, and for people who don't know what happened, Nate was on – there was a time

in the UFC, in combat sports where you were allowed to take TRT. Testosterone replacement therapy and we always talk about TRT Vitor because he was the best example of what could happen when you take an older fighter and you juice him to the gills and then throw him out there.

He was like a fucking alien. That guy had muscles on his teeth. The times when Vitor was his scariest, the Luke Rockhold fight, the Bisping fight, the Henderson fight. Dude, Vitor was fucking terrifying. But it was weird

that you're letting this guy take testosterone. And Nate was, they tested him and they found that his levels were off the charts. And they were like, what are you doing? Like, you can't fight. He got suspended, and then all of a sudden he had a fight again. And they took him off suspension, which is crazy to me.

And then he uses his doctor again with the TRT. And I'll tell you one thing. Nate is one of the, again, being coachable, he's one of the most coachable guys. Sometimes almost over coachable, because I remember he'd walk around and say, this is the best boxing coach in the world. It doesn't matter who it was, he was the best boxing coach. John Chamber, best conditioning coach. He just believed what you were saying.

He's just so trustworthy. And his doctor, he believed him so freaking much to go, how much? This doctor, we couldn't even get a hold of the week of that fight. He wouldn't answer his phone. He's like, I'm at a lacrosse game. And I'm just like, what the fuck is going on? Like, how do you test the levels?

How do you know how much you're freaking taking? But this was allowed. That's a big fucking issue. Yeah. From what I understand, the doctor gave him way more than he was supposed to get. Yeah. And then, you know, and again, that's a shitty fucking thing. I couldn't believe how that shit went down.

Yeah, the doctor probably, like a lot of these doctors, especially TRT doctors, in those days, they probably wanted to prove the effectiveness of TRT. They're like, well, more is better. Fucking fill them up. Turn them into a fucking silverback. Let's go. And again, you're not told what to take, how much is it. And when you see those guys get off of everything and their bodies deflate,

like Vitor when he fought Chris Weidman was like, Jesus Christ, this is weird to see. And it becomes a mental thing too because you need that. Again, you have it. And when you can't do it, it's such a mental thing. Again, when you can stay strong mentally, that's why I love this guy. This guy is so fucking strong mentally that, again, he doesn't need anything fucking else. And it's the guys like that. Again, Shane Carlin's best performance, he had a beer at night and he was eating nachos going,

I don't even know if I'm going to fucking fight because that brainstem thing, and he's eating nachos, and I'm sitting here going, fucking crazy motherfucker. And one of his best performances mentally because he was okay. This guy worked as an engineer, would drive an hour to the gym at nighttime, train at nighttime, drive all the way back home, grab like a cheeseburger on the way home because he ain't got time to get anything else. Just crazy. That is nuts that he was working full time.

It's crazy. While he was one of the best heavyweights on the planet. On the Ultimate Fighter. When he coached the Ultimate Fighter, he was working. In between workouts, he was doing full work for his engineer job. Really? It was crazy. Just crazy. While he was coaching the Ultimate Fighter? Yep. That's insane. And I remember

Dana asked him a quiz job. He was going to pay him more. He's like, no. He's like, I already got out of the NFL because of an injury. And I know I could get injured at any point. He's like, no. Smart dude. Well, he had a fucked up back, right? From football? Yep. How bad was it a fucked up back, right, from football? Yep. How bad was it?

Very bad. I mean, he got to pre-train for preseason, and then he never went through. And then he started fighting because he had fun when he went to a Ron Waterman fight. I was friends with Ron Waterman. He jumped in because they needed him. That's crazy that it's okay for fighting, but it wasn't okay for football. No, his back in the Frank Mir fight His back was so messed up In the Roy Nelson fight he had to pull out

Because of his back His back was always an issue He wound up getting surgery on it right? I'm not too sure A lot of outside stuff too So after the Nate Marquardt situation You just started up your own gym? Is that what happened?

So all the fighters left. Why did they leave? Well, we had a manager come in, and I had a dispute with the managers, and they started managing all the guys. And they wanted to be a part of Grudge, and I didn't want to settle for what they were talking about. And they started training in a different gym. And me and Nate kind of didn't see eye to eye on it

because the way their publicist put something out so I don't do interviews no more because I was like oh you put my words the wrong way like me and Nate talked it out and became friends again I was like I had your back that gray area pissed me off like I was like I had to speak about it but the way that whole situation was handled Nate left everybody left I was like cool I started with him brand new I had him I have Rose yeah the gray area meaning the TRT right where I was like I was pissed I was like, cool. I started with him brand new. I had him, I had Rose. Yeah, the gray area meaning the TRT. Right. Where I was like, I was pissed. I was like, you guys are going to cut him out and shun

him like this and say that he's doing this when you allowed him to take TRT, but there's no way you can tell how much he's taking? Right. It's crazy to me. They can only tell the levels that you have. But you said it's okay, like again, and then you took him off a suspension for this and then said, all right, cool, everything's back to normal.

Because they needed someone to fight. It's just crazy to me. Like they said, all right, we'll test it after this fight. I'm like, dude, it's just crazy. There were things, again, that was a very bothersome time for me, but when the whole team left, because Nate left because we didn't see eye to eye, he was pissed at what I said, and I was standing up for him. I was like, all right, whatever, see it the way you want to see it

and I've always been about my guys you know fighter first and the whole team left so I was like once that happened I was like man am I going to go work

at Home Depot what am I going to do but I just got a new fucking gym big ass gym he was brand new with me Rose was brand new I was like I'll start over

this is you know and did it from the beginning again I came in I came in through the other manager yep and I I only did a year for two years

right when I was like fine fucking leaving Trevor you guys are stupid yeah I was like this motherfucker is a genius what are you thinking and then thank god they left

cause yeah now I got them to myself fuck them after my lease was up I let the gym go and started an equipment company and started focusing on how can I – because I respect every fighter who fights. I have so much respect for you getting in there. And as I get older, I get a little softer side to me.

It's like when I – even when we win, I see the other person lose. Like it's hard for me to celebrate. Seeing them down is a hard thing. Like Cowboy, that was a hard fight for me. Like I didn't think it would be hard at all. Looking across the cage wasn't hard at all. You know, he's a gangster, and I know we would still be cool. But when the ref wasn't stopping the fight when he's hitting him with the uppercuts,

like, I jumped up on the canvas. Could have caused the disqualification because there's still no real set rule on how do I stop a fucking fight. It happened in New Mexico. You can't stop my opponent's fight. But I jumped up, like, stop the fucking fight. And then I ended up walking back with Cowboy all the way to the back. It made me emotional. It's hard.

Like, here, we're stopping him. He's on his next title run, and we're stopping him in his track, stopping him moving forward. And he's moving forward. Yes, it's my fighter. I want him to move forward and all those things. But with age, it's been harder for me. And, again, I respect every person who gets out there and inspires people.

So I started sewing in the gym, and then I moved into my basement and i was like you know what i want to start something new i want to be able to help every athlete out there that goes out there and risks their life so i started making equipment and with my injuries i just couldn't coach uh that's why shane broke big guys anymore my body was so fucked up all the time like what kind of injuries you have i've had all sorts of injuries dude it's like and they're always elbows and and wrists. And when you're drinking a beer with a straw, you're at the bar and you're drinking with a straw, you can't pick it up because you've got the mashed potato head and what is good for business.

Your wrist is that fucked up? Oh, dude, my hands are so bad. So look at how my hand opens. See, it's not dented from taking punches. I just believe it's from me trying to squeeze onto mitts because I've got small hands, and you've got no left or right when it comes to a mitt. And I'm holding mitts on trying not to let them fly across the room.

I think it's just created my ligaments and my hand is shaped that way. Whoa. Isn't that crazy? But my forearms are so bad all the time. So your hand doesn't flatten out. Not at all. Isn't that crazy? It's a cup.

It's one of – like I'd go in the hot tub and push my fingers and try to separate them and it'd be like the most painful thing ever. But elbow issues on the inside of my forearms. People don't realize how hard it is holding mitts, especially for big guys. And body punches. Like, my chest bone clicks now because of him. I just can't take chest shots. But I started making equipment because I needed it. Like, I was like, I needed to make shit out there because you don't...

I had sponsorships by companies. They'd send me mitts, and they're like, give us some feedback. And I'd be like, the colors are cool. I would cut them open and re-foam them. And I've been doing this for 15 years, re-foaming with – I'd go find different foams because I needed something soft to take the shock off. But you needed something a little bit dense to keep the bone from bone and happening. You do the whole deal, right, with sewing machines and everything? I took my mom's sewing machine.

I said, can I borrow your sewing machine? And I tried to make a mitt that had a left and a right that i wouldn't have to squeeze my hands to hold on to because my hands are so weak and after two sessions i was like dude i can't even hold the mitts like chicks i couldn't even hold on to the tie pads it's freaking crazy so it started by need and then i'd be at fights and all these high level coaches are like where'd you get that i'm like i made that one i remember the first pair of bits i made they're so ugly i went to joann fabrics and got some materials and made these mitts. And every coach in my gym was like, dude, I want a pair.

And I was like, cool, pay for the materials. I'll make you some. And, man, all of a sudden I'm like a year out from these custom stuff. And I'm an artist at heart. So once I started learning how to sew, I'm starting to learn materials. And it just went crazy from an equipment coaching standpoint. And then I was like, you know what? I need to release something for the fighters.

And the hand issues and the training issues that I was always dealing with, almost all the time my fighters were going into fights, they were injured. They were going into fights injured. And that's common. Like, you can talk to anybody. They're going into fights injured. And they have to because they're not going to get paid if they're not fighting. And they're like instantly.

I could name a guy who's had how many surgeries? And he continues to fight like with bad injuries. And he's like, well, I'll get a surgery afterwards. And he's fighting off adrenaline. But how many times? Like the Shane Carmel fight. Going into it injured, able to perform. And I was a psychologist.

And once I started doing this equipment, it clicked. Everybody's like, yeah, we need better stuff. We need stuff that's made for MMA. We need MMA equipment. It's crazy to me. There's a picture of you back in the day where you had this headgear on that was small, just covered your forehead. And I'm like, why are people wearing these big ass headgears? That's like old school. When they made boxing headgears, people think boxing headgear is safe. It is not safe. You're putting heavier weight on your head that blocks your vision. And if you can't see a shot coming, and you knock me with

that heavier weight on there, you're causing way more linear damage to me. Think about when you're at that park. I always think about the little springs with the dinosaur on it. My daughter gets on it and it's like, just bounces back and forth, but if I get on it, I hang down. Remember how Mike Tyson used to wear that real thin-haired gear? Yeah, totally.

Just to prevent cuts. I wear it a month out. And then in MMA, like MMA is not the norm to have headgear on. It's not because you grapple, you do all these different things. So you get the clip in the way, you can't do any type of grappling with it. So I'm on a mission to create all this new stuff again, just evolve. And it's never going to be better

but each time get a little better, a little better, a little better. The UFC glove, the one that Rashad brought on. The glove is the same in the UFC. It's still the Wano pattern. Remember the Wano glove? The only thing they did different is the skirt. They used to have a skirt. It was a pain in the ass to get on. Shane Carlin, I remember

we had to cut into his gloves one time and that's why that was changed. Shane Carlin's hand was so big that they had to change the glove size because Brock was a 4X. Then we had to make a 5X, but they actually opened up the skirt because of that. Because Shane Carlin, when we actually allowed the commission, allowed us to cut it open.

But when it comes to the glove, I can't even say it's the worst glove. It's really the only glove. They did have the Pride gloves that were really good. They were better. It's the worst part of the night for me when I fight it's putting those gloves on You're if you start getting a burning in your forearms just to make a fist you're constantly fighting

Against yourself just to make a face is constantly you the natural thing No sense it pulls you here and then to make it you literally have to strain the whole time Could you mind if I run around to the side of the table? No, no, no. Go ahead. That's one of the ones I think I knocked out. I got a cowboy with that one.

This is the UFC glove. So that's the UFC glove. Can you take off your watch so I can... The strap is key. And so yours are the other ones? The white ones are yours? Yes. These are mine, so let's put that on so I can kind of explain something.

Okay. What are you going to explain? Explain it to Mike. So this is what happens with fighters and anybody who's wore and fought with gloves like this. They put this on, they get the strap strap on and they also have a hand wrap underneath this so what happens is when you go to make a when you go to make a fist go ahead and make a fist notice that it's hard to do this and when you do this you start getting a lot of pressure in between your fingers here and that's a huge thing that fighters field uh uh what's his name robin row

actually has a uh he's one of the cut men he has a wood tool that's the end of a hammer that stretches these out because of the pressure it puts right here. Okay, it's also hard to make a grip. So when you go to make a grip here, it's tough because it's a gardening glove. It's got all these straight finger pieces here, so you're packing all this material here. And then as you squeeze it, it's hard. It's hard.

Constantly, you have to use your forearms. At the end of the fight, that's what everybody talks about. It's this. And I haven't had the experience. Turning over your punches is where it really gets you. So when you put this on, and I want to kind of explain this. This is the right hand. Oh.

Yep. So I actually made space back here for the hand wrap. Okay. Now there's a strapping system that goes down inside this. So when I pull on this, you'll notice this piece right here actually pulls on this. There's no fingers, so it's easy to grab onto. There's space for the hand wrap, but this strap is actually connected here with a seat belt type of material that pulls on the back of the metacarpal. So when I pull on this, you'll actually feel it lock up on the back of your hand.

Oh, this is way better. And then when you wrap like this, there is no grabbing of the glove, so you're not going to be able to grab like with the Velcro. Put you in such a comfortable hand, but it's a normal position. Have you brought these to the UFC? I have. I have been speaking. You showed me these quite a while ago, and I said it before, and I think you've improved on them.

So this is far superior. Dana loved the gloves. He was blown away by them when he's seen them. This is way better. He liked the lace-up. It's so much more comfortable. The issue is they're with a company called Diacode. That's one who makes the manufacturing products, and they wanted to own the technology because all of our stuff is patented. I've went through the patenting processes.

I've put six years. So the company that makes the UFC gloves wants to own your shit? Completely. No, they don't want to own it. The UFC wants to own it. Oh, come on. So the thing is with it is, again, I feel like I want to bring this to all organizations. But that's not really the real issue.

Like the finger pokes is one thing. At least you're getting paid to do what you do. But just this right here where it's not forcing your hand open. Your grip is so good. Comfortable. So much better. So notice the spot on the side too. The pointer knuckle.

Protected, which is huge. You remember when Ronda fought Sarah McMahon? She actually cut her knuckle right here. It was crazy to me. Underneath the hand wrap and everything. But the glove sits up above your hand, so you don't protect that or hammer fists. And again, being able to shape to the-

That's the lead break in our sport. Yeah. Boxers is the fourth and fifth metacarpal, and MMA is the first metacarpal. Yeah. A lot of thumbs as well. Because of the distance. So the first and second, yeah. This is so superior.

It is. It's a great glove. But again, it's the training issues that I was focused on. When I heard they needed a glove, I was like, cool, I can make a glove for them. So I made a glove. That's actually how I made my wallet because I was like, all right, let me think through this. I cut their gloves. You've seen it a few times.

But I cut their glove up to see what foam they're using. I mean, there's technology foam out there. And it's crazy that our sport is not using any type of technology foam. It's crazy. So what is technology foam and what is this foam? and it's crazy that our sport is not using any type of technology foam. It's crazy. So what is technology foam and what is this foam? So it's made for contact. It's made to take contact, not like what you sit on, like a pad that you sit on. And that's what this is?

No. That's EVA foam. The UFC stuff. Yes, it's... The UFC foam is the shit you sit on. So this is not designed for hitting things. Is that what you're saying? It's not designed for hitting things.

Again, it's up to the manufacturer to be able to produce. But again, that's not a huge thing. Again, in the fight, you want to have... It's so much better for your hand. You want to... For your hand. I mean, this is... It's night and day.

So again, I don't want to talk shit about their glove. They don't know what they don't know. Please, talk shit about their glove. No, the thing is the injuries in training. The training injuries drive me freaking crazy. And we're not using those gloves. It's all these gloves out there that you're getting for $60. If you're buying a glove for $60, it's getting made for probably five, six, seven bucks.

Like it's crazy to me. The stuff that I'm cutting open, the gloves that say 16 ounces on them, that weigh 11 ounces. Like I got to show you a glove. Right and left never wears the same. Right's always lighter. If anybody's out there, I recommend you start weighing all your gloves to see what they weigh. It blows my mind. Me being a gym owner, do you have to sign a waiver to come into my gym?

It's crazy. Crazy to me that gloves don't. They're cookie cutter tags. No one's checking this. There's no quality checking when you're sparring with things. Well, your boxing gloves are amazing too. They really are excellent. Oh, that's crazy.

Okay. So that was from season 10 with the heavyweights. So it's supposed to be how many ounces? 16. It's 11 ounces. Wow. That's for the heavyweights to spar with. That's crazy. That's not good. That's a professional fight glove. That's not good. That's a professional fight glove.

That's not good. Crazy. But just the contour of these, I think, would take out a lot of eye pokes. It would take out a lot of eye pokes. The fact that your hand is naturally pulling open on the UFC glove, it lends itself to these eye pokes. And you get to perform better. If your hand can stay in a better position, my forearm isn't getting bent out of shape. Plus, with your gloves like this, so if my glove is pulling my hand back like this,

it's like doing a push-up on my door-docking knuckles. Right. I have no leverage. Right, right, right. It's going to help performance. Of course. I'm more about the performance when it comes to the fight glove. When it comes to the training stuff, it's about getting to the fight healthy

and not having to pull out of a fight. So explain to me the issue of getting this passed through, because this is the best glove for MMA for sure. So there was a few issues. Have you tested it? And I said, all right, listen, your glove's never been tested. What has it been tested with? That's another issue that just boggles me that our equipment has never been tested.

NFL, you go to any other sport league, all equipment is tested. Snowboarding, skiing. I think everybody looks at this stuff, especially when it comes to putting stuff on. You're a fighter. Oh, you've got to deal with head concussions. You've got to deal with this. Well, football, they're playing a game.

You know, how many times are they testing stuff in other sports? But look at our injury rate. We have 70% of injuries are happening in training, not the fight. That's crazy. You have no equipment on in the fight, and more injuries are happening in training. That blows my mind. Well, it's because you're training a lot more than you're fighting yeah but again like you think about football like i've had someone tell me hey but they they stop hitting in in practice and i'm

like yeah but you play every week so you're fighting every week so it's a whole different thing you need to be able to spar to know that you can make the right decisions in that hurricane to be able to know that you're conditioned to fight so in that hurricane to be able to know that you're conditioned to fight. So, again, you have to be able to train like that. Some of the biggest injuries I've seen in training are like someone getting hit with a knee when they don't have a knee pad on. They're throwing a kick, someone's shooting down, they hit the knee. Josh Copeland ended up getting 17 stitches in my gym because the other guy didn't have a knee pad on.

Like where are the standards when it comes to training? That's a huge thing, too, is is you got guys coming in and going oh man i've just got hand-me-down equipment it's been used for four years the the foam's broken down again why is headgear used to stop cuts so you can get to the fight do you make a head or a knee pad as well i so i've been testing i've had the same check so this is the head that's your head's your headgear. Oh, that's much better. No clip so you can grapple. Oh. It's like super cool. Here, I'll give you one to feel the.

Okay, so Velcro's on the top. So feel the weight behind this. Uh-huh. Oh, wow. It's super light. Yeah, that's great. That's perfect in terms of the amount of protection, too. Like it's not delusional.

It's like it's not keeping you from... It's the stop cuts. Yeah. It's not... Simply the stop cuts. Yeah. I run into an elbow. I run into a hip.

I run into a knee. I bet you can see way better with this. Yeah. There's no blind spots. That's why I make the angles like I do on this headgear. So if you look at the one with our funny looking mannequin, you're going to see you lose no vision with it. Yeah.

No, you can tell. Oh, that's so much better. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. you don't have any peripheral problems there's no blind spot that's excellent and the foam that we're using is this is what I'm talking about technology foam feel this okay as opposed to what other kind of foam EVA foam is in I'd say 95% of headgears. And is it just cheaper? It's just cheaper.

It's just cheaper. You're not going to find carpet padding. You're going to find the bounce, the recoil. This absorbs energy. This is what he's talking about. Oh, that's crazy. Think of water. So let's explain this for people that are just listening.

He had this one foam, the EVA cheaper foam, and Justin's dropping what is that, a ball bearing or something? It's a marble, big marble. And then it hits that cheap foam and it bounces like crazy. But when it hits the technology foam, it stops dead in its tracks because it completely absorbs the impact. Think about water.

The faster you hit it, the more you the more the faster you'll stop. If you the the more the faster you'll stop if you go into a slow you just kind of slide through it so that stuff you feel it feels like NASA foam like super super soft it sticks to your head doesn't move around so it forms to your head drop the bigger ball in there that's crazy now drop it on one of those other ones it'll actually pinch the the foam through it and do it so you think about gloves How many times are you hitting something?

And in boxing, you're not allowed to spar with the gloves you're hitting bags with because you break the foams in. Right. And again, it's just crazy to me. There's no new technologies when it comes to these types of things. Even if, I don't know what kind of pad is under where we fight, but if something was there to absorb the energy when we got knocked out and our head hit the back, I would assume it would be better for us yeah health-wise yeah all these things so with with shin guards most people deal with the injury on this on the instep so when the shin guard is

made you have this instep and you got the soft spot on the weakest part of your foot yeah knee checks it's like one of the biggest injuries again all the time your feet are like damn i got checked right on that spot i'm actually making gear that has a boot back behind it so that protects that spot so you'll see it pop out so it's foamed back behind where you actually zip in so that's all protected on the soft spot and I have not found it a shin guard out there 90% of shin guards aren't left or right either you kind of just get right form them to your body. You look at the straps and say, which way do they go?

And another pet peeve of mine, when I'm a coach and I've got a world-class athlete and they're stopping every time they throw a kick to say, hey, man, let me fix my shin guard. It's turning. Yes. It drives me freaking crazy. So I made shin guards. It's actually going to fit, not turn on.

You cover your toes, actually have flex where your toe goes. You can adjust the bottom. It's zipping in the boot area, so there's no sliding. Like, just, again, rethinking how things are made. Knee pads. Knee pads protecting on the side, so if I go to throw a knee, I'm not going to hit you with the side. These guys are using volleyball knee pad guards.

It just drives me crazy. Like, world-class sport, world-class, and nothing has changed. So that's what I've been doing in my basement having a blast doing just creating this new shit to keep guys lasting long and i'm the tester i have no i'm serious i have not been hurt in five years in training it's super cool if i when i i have forgot my shin guards two times i believe um and putting some putting other ones on it's like i feel so vulnerable when i'm wearing them. There's no comparison. I sound biased, but

top-level athletes, when they put this on, it's unbelievable how different. Elite athletes are using their stuff, which is super, super cool. Try this pad on. Don't say what's inside of it. You might sound biased, but I think you're right. I think you're telling the truth. Look, just the quality of this shit.

Trevor, you sent me some of this stuff before, and I've raved about it. It's excellent. Did you heat it up? Did you heat mold the foam? No. So I didn't think I explained that to you. I just kind of said it about to you. How do I heat it up?

You put a hair dryer in there for four minutes to watch what happens, dude. Fucking crazy. But that made those handles. Then you put your hand in there. It kind of forms, it has like a moldable foam, our base layer. So you did this because of all the problems you were having with your hands. Yeah, so now I wanted something I could just hang on. Like I feel like I can hang on something a long time like this.

Yeah. And the handle on a tie pad is hard for me to grip with weak hands. Isn't that crazy? Super cool. Do you make these a longer form for tie, for like kicking? I can make everything. I make everything two forms. So all of the gear that we sell, we custom make two sizes.

So we separate the foot size because you think like Rashad Evans. Rashad Evans has a fat calf, okay? And he has real short legs. So he has to get the extra larges where it comes up where he can't wear knee pads because the shin guards are this high. And then he's got this foot pad that doesn't fit his big-ass foot. Like he's got an awkward size. So we shaping everything we actually went to the ufc we're doing 3d scans and we shape the equipment to you super freaking so explain to me again why the ufc doesn't adopt

this glove i love you hey i spent two years there and again dana gets it i don't want to sell this to the ufc i would much rather give it to Dana. I feel like Dana helped grow this industry, what it is. But they're not Zufa no more. They're a different company. And again, it's very hard. I'm speaking, like you were talking earlier, I speak a language they can't understand. They don't know. You don't know what you don't know.

They don't understand the issues that I deal with. When we talked about the gloves. So when you say they, are you talking about the owners? No, I'm talking about the people who handle the deals. They don't sit back in the locker rooms and deal with what goes on with the fight gloves, how your arms get tired. They don't even know their gloves suck. They have no idea their gloves suck. They have no idea.

Again, you don't know what you don't know. They don't have to know. Why would they? Right. They're like, well, look, we put on this fight. Max Holloway and Volkanovski, they wore the regular gloves. We're fine. Yeah.

Right? Yeah. Every single fighter has a complaint about your gloves. These are so much better. So they wanted to own the technology, and that technology they have, the internal strapping system, is actually a technology that can go into any sport and is used in all my equipment. So I was like, dude, I can't just do that for the fight glove. And again, I want this in all organizations.

Right. So- But my goal is the training aspect first. Again, I want to help the fighters get to the fight that's key they got to get paid and then it's secondary

when you order our shin guards they come by your shoe size by your shin length you're going to get a video it's going to tell you how to give us your measurements you're going to get a custom fit we custom tailor

think about Tim Means Duran Wynn like it's just crazy we did 3D scans who was there because I wasn't there we have a 3D body scanner

right now we're currently scanning all UFC athletes that want to get scanned because we want to test it That's crazy. We did 3D scans. Who was there? Because I wasn't there for that. We have a 3D body scan. Right now, we're currently scanning all UFC athletes that want to get scanned. Because we want to test it with them. And we're going to give them a fight kit. It's going to be shin guard, headgear, 7-ounce gloves. I didn't bring you my 7-ounce gloves to show you. It's very sweet. 16-ounce gloves and a pair of 4-ounce MMA. So the 7-ounce gloves are bag gloves?

I use those as MMA fighters. We spar two times a week. One day it's 16-ounce gloves are bag gloves? Or do you use them... I use those for... As MMA... We spar two times a week. One day it's a 16-ounce glove. One day it's MMA sparring. So we use 7-ounce gloves. And what is this weight? Is this 4? That's 4 ounces.

That's a 5-glove. That one's actually the same as the other one. The 5.8 ounces... This seems like it protects your knuckles so much better. Totally. I mean, it's just... If we go back to the 4-ounce gloves, again, everybody thinks every UFC glove is 4 ounces ounces you're going from 5x to extra small so you're going from about eight point

something ounces all the way down to like like 2.9 ounces is for the uh uh for flyweight yeah fly weights yep this is amazing this is really good so what has to be done so this is it seems like so i need to put some pressure on somebody. Well, again, it's... When it comes to testing things, like we're testing things, you've got to see the testing we're doing, dude. It's super fucking cool. I've got data collectors right here. Check out this hand that we

got. It's got sensor points on it to be able to tell the force. Because they were like, why do you have it tested? Fake hand. Yeah, so it's a rubber hand with sensors in it to be able to test. So we're testing everything because they were like, have you tested it? Have you proved it?

I'm like, what am I testing against? Like, what do you guys want me to test against? What does that mean? Testing it. Listen. This is super cool, too. Give it to a fighter. Tell him to put it on.

Do you like it? Yeah, this is better. Listen to him. That's the test. So this is pretty cool. Move to the right. Okay. So those are x-rays with gloves on, so you can kind of see how I think.

I know what a glove feels like on the inside. Almost all boxing gloves have you in a door-knocking knuckle position, and there's so much floating space. Wait until you see the X-Factor glove in there. Look at the foam. It's so cool how it supports around your hand. Are these your wraps? factor glove in there. Look at the foam. It's so cool how it supports around your hand. Are these your wraps? Yeah, those are

wraps that I actually stepped away from because we put the straps inside the gloves. So they say that when you start to think... You don't use wraps? I haven't used wraps in three years. So let me talk about this real quick. Okay. Even for heavy bag gloves? Nothing. I would never tell anybody that back in

the day because I'd be like, when I was fighting, I was like... These were the wraps or these are the wraps that are now inside the gloves? Those are wraps. How I started Onyx was I started with hand wraps outside of my equipment that I was doing. I was like, all right, what can I bring to market? So I started a patent on hand wraps. And with this patent, it came into the gloves. I was like, well, fuck, if I can make gloves that have support system in it.

Because you think about what do you need a hand wrap for? And I'm not talking a professional hand wrap that you fight in i'm talking about the 120 inch wrap that gets tangled up in your laundry and stinks up your gloves when you put them on this wrap that i was doing i was able to put inside the glove and if i'm able to make a glove fit in a size so the strapping pulls the glove down to shrink against your hand pulls it up if i have a glove that's too big i've always had small hands and when i have this extra space i go to hit him he bobs it and weaves his head and my hand does this and tweaks because the glove is this much longer on this side i start to cause hand problems okay when i'm wrapping my hands all i'm doing is adding more material in the ball of my hand here

so if i were grabbing on to something the more material I have in between my hand. Let me see that foam real quick, the yellow foam. So if I have, so when you're putting wrap on and you've got material inside your hand here, Joe, I've also got the material from the glove. So the more material I put inside my hand here, I stop getting my natural fist. Right. I start to get this. And that causes my leverage points to start causing injuries. If you have ligament injuries, it's because you don't have any flex behind, so I can't pack my fist, so I'm stretching my fingers.

If I'm not lining my strong bones up, meaning my metacarpals down with my strong bone, I'm not getting the correct alignment in my fist. If I start going to my door-knocking knuckles, I'm not lining my wrist up. If I start going to my door-knocking knuckles, I'm not lining my wrist up. For people who are just listening to this too, Trevor has a whole series of x-rays of a person's hand inside regular gloves and then inside his gloves. And it shows you that with the Onyx gloves, you're getting a flat knuckle at the top. So it would be just like balling your fist with nothing in your hand and punching someone with the knuckles as opposed to, like you said, hitting them with that door knock position. We have a tiny, tiny, because again, this is not good, but

any kind of flex here is going to cause ligament damage. So Rose would not go without wraps. She would not go without wraps. And then after six months of using the gloves, she's like, I'm going to try it without wraps. She didn't have a fight scheduled. I always recommend, hey, if it gets what you... Again, change is hard for a lot of people. I would

never have done it when I was fighting. Do they force you to wrap your hands in the UFC? No. I don't believe so. You're not forced to. I mean, they're going to send a cut man to you. Now, a professional hand wrap is different because when I get a professional hand wrap on, there's a little space of material. So it's like grabbing onto a finger. That's great. I got a little bit of grip. But

when you start packing too much material, like the hand wraps, 120 inches, that's where the issue is. If I don't know how to wrap my hand, I'm causing more damage because I'm putting too much material. Right. And you're stressing out the ligaments. And again, that's what's causing the damage in the hands. And again, hand injuries are, that's your money makers. So one more time.

What do we have to do to get this into the UFC? I think we either wait for the Diaco deal to get up, or we continue to do what we're doing. Is Diaco the company that makes these? Who's Diaco? So Diaco is now making the glove for the UFC. Okay. It used to be Century before that. Okay.

Century was doing it. And so their deal is for how long? Do we know? I don't know. We don't know. We want those in the UFC. This is way better. Yeah, it's way better.

But again, my goal, Joe, the fight is not a huge issue. I did that as a favor. I was like, I could help. It'd be great marketing too, right? Right. But my thing is helping the injuries, the ones that I dealt with,

with issues of people having crappy gloves. I mean, think about it. I understand what you're saying, but let's get to the heat of the matter here. So, Diaco, is that how you say the name? Diaco? D-Y-A-C-O. So, they want this technology?

They want to own it? No. To have this UFC? UFC wants to own it. UFC wants to own it. But they want me to work with Diaco to be able to do it. Now, if I work with Diaco, they want to put the UFC brand on it, and they want me to partner with Diaco.

No, we're our own company. Are they offering you anything to do this, or do they just want to partner with Diaco. No, we're our own company. Are they offering you anything to do this or they just want to just absorb it? Hey, man. It's not even anything to what this is. I'm going to change this whole freaking game when it comes to something like... Now, if someone like a Nike comes to me and says, hey, man, let's partner. Let's do something.

That's a different thing. Now I got access to great manufacturing. Our issues right now is we keep selling out because I'm dealing with a manufacturer that makes snowboard boots because they have the best strapping system they have the best materials because it's waterproof doesn't take on water doesn't start to get the bacterias I've used so many different manufacturing companies that make gloves already and they can't make what I make because they're stuck in their old old patterns there are ways of

making gloves that way I've tried so many. So we make them out of house. Jesus Christ. So this is a problem. No, that's the solution. This is the solution. This is a problem. This is not in the UFC.

It will be. There's no doubt in my mind. Again, it's one of those things. But the UFC wants to own this patent. Yeah, they want to own it. Like I said, I want to work with Dana. Dana wants that glove. And so Dana knows about this.

He's put it on. He's tried it on. Yeah, well, me and him had one of the best conversations ever. He's like, man, this is the best thing ever. It's the best glove. It was one of the best things. It's hard for people to listen to this and try to put it in their head because half the people are watching, half the people are listening.

But for the people listening, I mean, if you're a martial artist and you need to get some MMA gloves, this is by far the best glove I've ever put on my hand. You know what needs to happen? What needs to happen? In the NFL, when you're training, you're using high-level equipment, and it's provided by the NFL. That's your athletes.

Right. So the UFC needs to provide it to these athletes. They need to be wearing equipment that's going to protect them, help them get to the fight, and when they're in the fight, be able to perform. Yeah. And not deal with what I've been dealing my whole life as being a psychologist. I get people to the fight and worrying about these issues of them fading out and being like thinking about your hand. I had tied my boxing boot too tight one time.

I had these high Adidas. You know, those real tall ones back in the day, Hearns used to wear. And I tied them too tight on my calf. And I remember all I could think about was my calf muscle. I was like, oh my god, it was such a distraction when I was fighting. Isn't that crazy? Tie your shoestring too tight. This is what they deal with all the time with their hands. First thing they're doing, like, get my glove off.

Get my gloves off. Yeah, yeah. It cuts the circulation off. Your hands can't breathe, man. It's such an uncomfortable feeling. This is night and day. And that's made for a hand wrap. Like that one is made for a hand wrap. Yeah, there's no room in the UFC glove for a hand wrap. I made space for the hand wrap.

All it does is cause more pressure when you add a little bit, anything under there. Yeah. So now I got to glove up and get a bigger size glove than I would originally have. The padding in this thing is so superior too. Well, it's the difference in the foam. It's sheer. If you pound on the table. Feel the knuckles.

I actually make pocket holes for the knuckle where the padding would be on a hand wrap. No, it slides in perfect. I feel it. It's amazing. And, again, protecting these areas, too. Because the number one break in MMA is the number two metacarpal. This shit drives me crazy when there's some fucking roadblock for using the best thing. I love it, it dude i love to

say when i so that's what always made me unique is people like my dad told me in the boxing world he's like you're gonna be a boxing coach you're too damn nice and i was like all right cool i went out there and smiled i was like thumbs up to everybody to my opponents i was like hey man they're like what the fuck is this guy smiling it's actually what kind of built my name i love that give me an obstacle and i'm going to show you. I tell him all the time. Picasso would paint a picture and tell people what he's painting, but people could not see it. That's what I was saying earlier. I don't know what the hell. He's telling me.

He knew what it looked like before it came out. He's seen it in here. And I see it. I see all the white space that's open. Now it's about leverage and also right partners. Right finding the right people who want to get behind something that is so freaking important that is overlooked. It's such a huge market. Yeah, it is such a huge market.

It is a huge market. Everything gets attributed to boxing. But boxing is not the – they're probably the main consumer, but they're not the only consumer. MMA is so big. It's getting so much traction. So that's the funny thing. Boxing equipment market, everything's boxing equipment market. I said, no, it's all the MMA guys

buying the boxing gloves. There's probably a lot of them. If you look up MMA gloves, you're buying boxing gloves. You're buying those MMA gloves. You're buying kickboxing shin guards. There's no MMA equipment. And we are specifically

MMA equipment. When I grapple with this, it's similar to a headgear. I wrestled with a headgear my whole life. It's not comfortable. Headgear was never comfortable, but it's protecting me from cuts, and I can still do what I need to do. Trevor, can you make anything for just jiu-jitsu? I can make anything, dude.

Literally. Oh, 100%. Whatever you want. We're keeping it simple, and we're actually releasing our shin guards and headgears. People have been waiting for a while because I made some. That's how I started making a headgear was TJ got cut. Dwayne called me and said

hey Mace, do we have a fight? I broke his nose. No, that was Corey Sanhagen where I made the sweet ass headgear. You know the basketball players that wear the little... Yeah, he had one of those on. He stitched one into a headgear. I never knew you had bifocals. He stitched one into a headgear.

Really? It was freaking crazy. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Oh, that's great. Is that the, the place?

That's Corey. Yeah, Sandhagen broke his nose. I was talking about the TV. He wanted to fight still. And so we're like, well, we got you.

And how long did he wear that in training for? The whole training camp. He, he, he just fought, broke his nose. And then i was in there and he had another fight scheduled such a talented dude corey's such a good he's very good

but he was in there with the plastic piece and i was making headgears at the point and i was like dude let me take that and see what i could do with it and i came back and he's like what the this is awesome but tj the headgear started with tj because he went into small headgear he could still grapple with. There's super cool. I like how it's open for the eyes as well. So you can see out of it clearly. It doesn't get fogged up or sweated up. I told TJ I'd never show anybody those pictures of me sizing him.

But look at the cut on his eye. Oh, wow. And then slide to the side. You should be able to see a picture of the headgear. Yeah, interesting. And see how small it is and see how it fits. Huh. Yeah. That's. Yeah, interesting. And see how small it is and see how it fits. Huh. Yeah.

That's genius shit, man. For me, the shin guards. Shin guards are his best thing he's ever made for me. What about heavy bags and stuff along those lines? Oh, dude, I got a heavy bag that's so freaking sweet. Dana bought two of them. Yeah? He bought two of them.

He was blown away. He came down to the shop. So he brought the whole crew down. Like, again, this is something that's super special. Everybody sees it. Everybody gets it. And again, What's the difference in your heavy bag? You can hit it barehanded.

Barehanded. And it's heavy. Knuckles just sink and it doesn't hurt one bit. It doesn't scratch you. Really? He's got some weird beads in there. And some weird... The way he stitched it, they don't pack. It's weird. So old tie bags used to have rice.

Rice is really fun to hit, but it packs because it's got that little angle to it. So if you keep kicking, you'll chop and you'll get a dent mark, and it's so hard to work back. It's very similar to that. It's got tons of weight to it, but you can hit bare knuckle and not hurt your hands at all. Even with my mashed potato hand, it's one of those things. You've got to be able to hit it again. You're hurting yourself. Like, how many bags have you kicked and kicked a hard spot?

I've had bags fall apart, and there's lingerie falling out. Scraps of lingerie. Pink lingerie out of one of my bags. They're stuffing it with scraps. Again, where's the technology? They got that new bag out, which is cool. It's a water bag. But do you notice what it is?

You know the ball that I'm talking about? You know what that is? It's is cool. It's a water bag. But do you notice what it is? You know the ball that I'm talking about? You know what that is? It's a buoy. It's one of those floating buoys. That's like, I always say, if you got duct tape and yellow pages, you could make a good body shield. Like you put some handles on there. Yeah. People get real creative in the combat sports.

Where is the technology? Where is the testing? And that's what we're doing. So are you selling that heavy bag as well? Or is it something you're developing right now? No, I'm focused on the training gear right now because, again, manufacturing is the issue because we keep selling out. Like, our gloves are sold out every time.

Every freaking time. I can't even get them here. And then I'm like, fuck, dude. Because it's such a difficult process to make that they can't make a lot of them? No. Dude, they're selling. They're selling. They just can't keep up with the demand. I can't keep up with the demand. Wow. I went back to use my other manufacturer, and now we're working on building manufacturing

in the United States. We're actually doing all the shin guards and headgears in the States. It's such a difference between these two. It's kind of hilarious. It's like everything about it. Also, I never liked this side stitching shit, the way these fingers are done. This is so much better where there's no fingers. Nothing's exposed.

You're not going to get any scratches. There's also no consistency in those UFC gloves. You can pull 10 out of a bag. These last ones? Yeah, they all got different malfunctions. The padding was like way up here. And I was like, bro, look at your padding. It wasn't sunk in all the way and it was just cut wrong.

Just made cheaply. That's unfortunate. I mean, it's really unfortunate when you're dealing with the very best fighters on the planet earth and they're forced to fight what a unique sport right like like professional fighters training with your common everyday people in the same gym you're never gonna see it it's crazy right crazy it's like weird in that fact that like a guy can join an mma gym and like a month later wind up sparring you yeah like. And I could start coaching and be 0 and 10 as a fighter

and be like, alright, cool, you're fighting in two weeks. Professional. I could take you and make you a professional fighter in two weeks. I could actually sign you up tomorrow for a fight if you want. Isn't that crazy? That is crazy. There's no real qualification. That's why everyone's an MMA fighter. There's zero qualifications. I want to help grow this industry

and just, again, create some type of standard. And again, keep it safe, man, and keep it fun, and keep the entertainment value high through performance. If people want this stuff, what's the website address? ONXsports, onyxsports.com. ONXsports. Yep. Onyxsports. It's cool.

Onyx, you see the one-on-one? There it is. The one-on-one. There's your website. The N is the one-on-one because I believe you fight yourself, like you're in all decisions. So that's what the one-on-one. There's your website. The N is the one-on-one because I believe you fight yourself. Like you're in all decisions. So that's what the one-on-one means. The Y is not in the onyx because we protect your Y.

The Y is internal. So it's all very purposeful. And again, the best thing is when I wrap people's heads at fights and they start going, they start throwing their hands. It's a feeling. Right. Like when you know that you got good shit on, I'm telling you, feeling is everything. We custom print on every single piece of equipment. whatever his name is whatever you want name i put the highlight or gaethje push other people's things again without the coaches without everybody else

out there this industry would be nothing man super cool that's very cool stuff huh yeah it is fun stuff but i love how much you put so much thought into this i break you dude i live at that place i yeah i love it. I'm so fucking passionate. He does not stop. Can't stop, won't stop. I'm like, what can I help you with? He's like, get out of here.

Leave me alone. I'm like, all right. Especially when I'm prototyping. When I got a new idea, I'm like, oh, hell yeah. He's like, all this is done in your basement? Now it's in the office. Oh, yeah? I got these glasses.

I got the tape in the middle. I got a pocket protector. We're moving up. I don't want no white coats. We're moving up. We got an office now. Saturday, I fought. Sunday, we flew in. Monday, I was in the middle. I got a pocket protector. We're moving up. I don't want no white coats. We're moving up. We got an office now. Saturday, I fought. Sunday, we flew in.

Monday, I was in the office. Really? That's my job. Look at him there. Look at that face. He's so intense. He's a perfectionist. That's what kills me, you know?

He'll make a headgear. It's perfect. He don't like it. He has to start over. It's like like holy shit dude evolution like I'll never be perfect but I'm always perfecting

that's kind of how I think about things things can always be better well someone's gotta come along and make the very best gear you know the last technology that's come out in combat sports

is Muhammad Ali used to be able to do this after fights with his thumb and they attached the thumb right yeah that is the last

it's crazy right well they used to have horse hair in them, too. It's crazy. Horse hair is cool, though, because that's for the fight. It's like packs a punch. It protects your knuckles, and it gives you a good feeling in the hit. Yeah.

See, in a fight glove, I still think it's about the fight. But if we can help with finger pokes and bring it back down 10%, that's a cool thing. Yeah, I don't think it can be eliminated. If you can feel. It's natural human instinct. Right. If your fingers are exposed, someone's going to get a finger in the eye at a certain point. Yeah, but this, I think, will eliminate a lot of those.

I think it'll eliminate a lot of those. I believe it'll eliminate a lot. I don't believe it'll eliminate all. It might eliminate half. It's going to elevate the performance big time. Yeah. Well, for sure. That's a huge thing.

It's going to prevent a lot of knuckle breaks. Oh, 100%. With the strapping against the metacarpals, 100%. And it's going to make it a lot easier for the hand wrappers to be able to make a wrap that's going to fit in the glove and then be able to do what they're good at. And less hand injuries will make for better fights. We fight last longer in their career, too.

We fight like four inches farther than boxers. And, you know, it has to be accounted for. And that's the lead knuckle. So in boxing, it's this knuckle. Because of close range, short hooks. Right. Short hooks.

At long range, when I'm at this range, you have a tendency of leading with your front knuckle. And that's why the front knuckle is always landing first. Long range because of kicks and takedowns.

You're about two feet further out than you would be in boxing. Yeah. Speaking from a heavyweight division. Yeah. This is awesome stuff, man. I'm really excited

that you're so pumped up about it. Yeah, thanks for letting me talk about it, bro. I get you out about this shit. I'm like a little child, man. It'm really excited that you're so pumped up about it. Yeah, thanks for letting me talk about it, bro. I geek out about this shit. I'm like a little child, man. It's really clearly better than anything else. And these mitts are fucking fantastic. Those are sweet, right?

I had to make myself good ones. So you make them like this, but you also make them longer like a time mitt as well? I have all sorts of stuff. He makes whatever. If you want one a little longer, he'll make it a little longer. Every one of my patterns are my patterns. That's the first and only one he's ever made this size. Everyone's different. And I test it first. That's one my patterns are my patterns. That's the first and only one he's ever made this size. Everyone's different.

And I test it first. That's one thing that we've done. We've done, right now, five years worth of research and development to create the patents. Make sure the patents were right. We got the patents on the headgear, patents on the shin guards, patents on the MMA glove, design patent and technology patent. The strapping system is a utility patent, which is technology. Super cool. It's going to control a lot of shit in the sports industry. The strapping system is a utility patent, which is technology.

Super cool. It's going to control a lot of shit in the sports industry. Outside of this kind of equipment, what are your thoughts on strength and conditioning, and how do you organize that for your fighters? Do you bring in an additional strength and conditioning coach? Yes, we have one that works on the outside through, Loren Lando, one of the best out there. He's a guy underneath Loren. I look at them as how the NFL looks at them. They're

there to make you more explosive, more powerful, but they're not there to condition you. I condition the athletes. I condition them for the fights. They get them sharper. They get them more balanced. They get all the stability muscles working. So you have them doing strength work and stability work, and the conditioning is all done with fight training.

It has to be sport-specific. So you have them doing strength work and stability work, and the conditioning is all done with fight training. With fight training. It has to be sport-specific. It has to be. Interesting. But we gauge the rounds. Like if he's going three rounds, he's going to one, maybe two times go four, maybe five rounds. Everything else is three rounds. Sometimes two, I'll pull him back, pull him out.

If I start seeing him get lazy or he might make a stupid mistake or he's just tired through the week. And we gauge the training regimens like hard in the beginning, slow down at the end of the week because you start to make lazy mistakes because your body's tired. That's where I've seen a lot of injuries happen. Do you work with the strength coach to have like a coordinated schedule? So you say, hey, he's going to be sparring today. Let's not have any strength.

We change that throughout the fight. Like for each fighter that we're fighting, different stuff, we'll change it for that. If he needs to be stronger, if he needs to be faster, it's on the game plan that I put together prior to the fight. For each fighter that we're fighting, different stuff, we'll change it for that. If he needs to be stronger, if he needs to be faster, it's on the game plan that I put together prior to the fight and then with what he's doing. And where we get the most use out of him too, he makes the biggest gains

is off of training camps. That's where he makes the biggest gains, is where he gets stronger. It's where he's consistently working and pushing more weight and when it comes to a fight camp, we start to pull back just a touch. And you said you do running as well? Oh, yeah. We do hill running, like mountain running where we'll do sprints on Tuesdays

right after sparring so his legs are shot. So we'll go out and hit some sprints. It's early in the week so we can go and spike the heart rate right after he's got dead legs from sparring. Right after sparring. And then Saturday on a fresh day, so he spars on Friday, then Saturday we go and do a long-distance run, which is only like two miles, and it's very inclined just so it's not hard on his joints and it keeps him 18 minutes is

my best time yeah you hit really good one last time but it again it's a the legs are key okay laurie lando had told me one time man running's not the best for you long distance i say i know when i fight like when you run and you stop running your legs want to keep moving like in boxing i know when i was running because my feet wanted to move and when you get hit with a shot your feet still are active you don't get like oh and get plotty so there's that benefit and again strong legs are key that's where you're saying the first thing to go every time yeah it seems like there's something there's a benefit to running with fighting in different it's different than any other sport. Look at Nate Diaz.

Yeah. He talks about it all the time. And he's got one of the best chins. Like he's just, he just goes. He's got a flow. He's got that momentum that he just keeps and carries and carries. Long distance runners have that mindset where they can just go. It doesn't matter.

It's like rolling. If you roll for an hour, it's different. You know, if you just grapple for an hour, you've got to be able to stay consistent. You think better. You become smarter. You don't just go out there and say, all right, I've got to be this fucking brute and win this fucking thing. You have to pace yourself. I don't do longer than 20, 25 minutes runs because I don't want to pace myself.

I want to push it. I don't have to fight more than 25 minutes ever. You make it like a fight. Rose runs a lot that's that's a different thing too she's a runner she can run she's a I'm not a runner she made me stop running I thought I could hit a time that was not even close to hers I was running consistently I was like man I'm feeling good it made me feel so good I was like I'm gonna hit a seven minute mile at least 759 I want to hit I went out and man I ran a mile harder than I could ever run I had asthma the whole time. I was like, oh, man, I might be low sevens. Man, I looked at my stopwatch right as I stopped.

I was like 850-something. I've always been the worst runner, man. I'm like, man. He quit. He's like, I'm done. I said, I'll swim. I'll do something. I hit the bag.

Oh, it's a funny shit. Zach Bitter. Zach Bitter holds the world record for the fastest 100 miles. He ran 100 miles at a seven-minute mile pace. Jeez. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah, it's insane.

He ran 100 miles in, I think it was 11 hours and 40 minutes total. That's insane. That's crazy. And then he did another 100 miles. This is the one he did at a seven-minute pace on a treadmill. So this 100 miles on a treadmill, what is it, like seven minutes and 15-second miles or something crazy like that? For 100 fucking miles.

That's a lot of patience. That's almost like you ever see that. He's got to be a different kind of person. Oh, yeah. Like that's actually better, though, than planking. There's the people's planking for like days. Yes. What are you doing mentally?

Like, what the hell are you thinking about? You're just looking at carpet the whole time. Yeah, I guess maybe if you listen to something

very interesting, it might be easier. Oh my gosh. It's your Rogan podcast, John. Maybe. Maybe a book. Something that captivates you.

You like any books? I love books on tape when I run. Yeah, nice. It's my favorite thing, but I'm worried about mountain lions these days. I run with my dog, and I'm also worried about rattlesnakes.

So I've been just listening to the sound of my feet and breathing. It's cool being out there with your dog, too. There's something super cool about that. Yeah, we did it today. I love it, but I'm worried about snakes, man. These motherfuckers are everywhere out here in California. I've seen Brendan showing pictures like two days in a row with snakes. Every day he sees rattlesnakes on his trail he's crazy he's he's

biking in an area that has a high concentration of rattlesnakes but i ran over one once with my old dogs the dogs aren't alive anymore and we not because of this but they're just got old but i ran over this snake and i didn't even realize it was a rattlesnake until I was in the air over it. I thought it was a stick because it was totally flat. It was a part where I'm really pushing, a part in the run, and I turned the corner and the dogs ran right the fuck over it too. I'm in the midair

and I'm like, oh my god, it's a fat rattlesnake. Like fat like my wrist, man. It was a big fucker. I'm from southern Arizona, man. We have a lot of arizona has the big ones man you made a good visual and i could actually i have that in my mind now you jumping over that thing that was a good visual i couldn't believe it in in the air over him i was realizing like oh my god can i ask you a question yeah so Oh, my God.

Can I ask you a question? Yeah. So look what you got. This is super cool. Do you miss doing Fear Factor? No. So I'll tell you what. I love that show.

And the time I was talking with the guys out there, one of my favorite times were actually like, I was like, oh, I like that dude. There was a chick who was getting, some dude was talking shit to her. And you called the dude out. It was ready to fuck him up on the show. You remember that?

No. You had called him out, and he was being aggressive to the chick on the show. And you're like, hey, man, can't be talking like that. And he got aggressive with you, and you're like, all right, we can fucking do this shit. I think you're confusing it. This is what happened. A girl punched a guy.

And then the guy's, the girl's husband got mad. It was a devil's eye.'s husband got mad because I told him I'll never forget I was like hell yeah Fear Factor is going to be a fight with the host I didn't know your name at the time and I'll never forget it bro I put him in a tie clinch I didn't want to choke him

because if I choke him then I'm doing something to him and I didn't want to knee his brains out but I was like I have him if he does something to me then I can do but I'm like, I'm like, I have him. If he does something to me, then I could do it. But I'm like, let me just hold this dude in the plum and just also let him know how weak he is. You hold someone by their neck that's never grappled before and then you rag them around. They're like, uh, uh. Okay, okay.

So in that time of your life, did you know where you'd be? Oh, no. I never know where the fuck I'm at. I just do things. You do it really good. Like, I'm such a goal setter. I'm a dreamer. It's magical to me. It's fucking cool. I love it. I love that shit. I wanted to ask that because, again,

you have come a long way, bro. Yeah, but it's all just keep going. Just grind. One day at a time. Yeah, I'm not a... One day, I'm going to be on top of the podcast world. There's no thought thinking about it at all. It's one day I'll look back and see what I'm going to be on top of the podcast world. There's no thought thinking about it at all. One day I'll look back and see what I've accomplished, but right now.

I just enjoy what I do, so I keep doing it and I try to do it my best. But the Fear Factor thing was, look, it was a great job. It was a great job. I made money. It was fun. It allowed me to do a lot of things. It also gave it gave me fuck you money so I could do whatever I wanted. So like from the money I made from Fear Fact, it actually helped my comedy because I didn't worry about saying anything because I was like, I don't give a fuck.

I'm good, man. I put that money. I really didn't live that lavishly. So I'm like, I put a lot of money away. I'm like, I got fuck you money. And then once you have fuck you money, you tend to say fuck you more often. And then you get more fuck you money because you, you, you be yourself, you know, but it was a job.

Fair factor was a job. Whereas like this never feels like a job. I enjoy it. Especially cause I get to pick who's on, you know, I don't have anybody on and I'm not interested in actually telling you what to say. Yeah, exactly. No one's bringing guest list to me and say, these are the people you're going to have on this week.

I'm like, oh, Christ. You know, like you see those guys that host the Tonight Show or any of those shows like that. That's what they have. They have like someone comes to them with a list. And then it's fake. Yeah. Because whether they want to be around them or not,

they have to act like they want to be around them. They pretend. Yeah. And then you know it at home. So everything has this air of fakeness. Whereas people could tell, here, we're just having a conversation. It's having fun, right? That's why we love fighting so much.

It's so real. It's as real as it gets. It's an obsession, right? That's the old UFC logo. It's as real as it gets. So true. But that is what it is. How cool is it, though, Dana White stepped up and came out and fucking had some fucking fights?

I'm glad. I'm glad he didn't wait. I'm glad. I'm so glad that he had the balls. And he was right. And meanwhile, everybody got tested. Yeah. You know, ESPN, a lot of places, like, not ESPN, but there was a, ESPN asked me about

it, but some places were actually upset that I was shaking people's hands. So I heard that you were supposed to do interviews outside, right? Yeah, they had this crazy thing. We all got tested. That's what I'm saying. One green card girl has no mask on. My coaches didn't wear masks. They're the only ones that didn't wear masks.

So the thing was, I'm back in the locker room and the commissioner's there with a mask on. And he's like this. He's like, you need to have a mask on and now you have to have goggles on. And I'm like, listen. I said, first off, show me it in the rule book. I know I need rubber gloves. I've seen it in the rulebook.

I know the fucking rules. You need to have gloves on. And every state is different, but most of them have the rubber gloves. You have to have rubber gloves on. But I said, alright, show me in the rulebook. I know it's not in there. And I need to be able to be there for my fighter for safety. That's number one. He needs to be able to hear me

and everything that I'm doing. I'm there for him and his safety. And what the fuck are the goggles going to do? It just makes no fucking common sense to me. No, everyone's lost their mind. Everyone's lost their mind. Everyone's paranoid of this. First of all, this kills less than one-tenth of one percent, particularly when you're talking about people that are really healthy like you guys.

It's zero risk. He was about to fight, and he had it. I know. That's how bad he felt. Exactly. Jacare was literally made weight. Going to fight, yeah. Made weight, no coughing, nothing.

Didn't even know he had it. Just had a feeling he might have had it because family members had it. He was around somebody. Yeah, it's not something. It's people that are metabolically challenged. They're the people that have insulin resistance problems, the people that are vitamin D deficient the people that have asthma obesity All those people are in trouble those those people are they're gonna get fucked up if they catch this disease when you see the numbers

drop drastically for the flu heart disease heart attacks, it's gonna be Proof yeah that something was fucking wrong Well, they thought it was going to be way worse than it was But the problem is when everybody's fucking tested and we're here There's 1100 tests the UFC did three guys tested positive. They sent those people out. Everybody was tested We all knew we were okay. That's the common sense shit that drives me crazy Yeah, like when people just don't have the fucking car like I'm like that it just makes no fucking comment, right? It was a sheep mentality, too. Everybody's like, bad gloves, bad masks.

Can't go anywhere. Everyone's wearing a mask. Not Texas. I went to Texas last week. I ate at a real restaurant. We had a restaurant in Florida. That was nice. Yeah, we did, too.

It was nice. We ate at Morton's. I mean, the waiters are all forced to wear masks and shit like that, I guess, whatever. But just to sit down at a fucking restaurant and have a nice meal and a glass of wine. Hey, no traffic here? There is positives. Right now, yeah, for now. But when it opens up, it's going to be broke people that are angry driving like fucking maniacs.

It's going to be dangerous once it reopens again. Not wanting to go back to work because they were getting paid more for unemployment than they were at their fucking job. There's a lot of that, too. And where's that money coming from And where's that money coming from? Where's that money coming from? Probably a little bit from our pockets. Listen, I'm very, very, very happy that Dana White stepped up and did that fight in Florida and that it worked out well.

And it felt real different. And I felt real, very, very fortunate. I was thinking while I was there, I was like, wow, there's not a lot of people that get to be here live for this. And then when you and Tony fought and it turned out to be absolutely one of the best title fights of all time.

All the fights, though. You guys were super unique. Quite privileged. Oh, yeah. I felt like that. Think about all the people with uber amounts of money that would just pay for

me and Tony to go fight in their house. Yes, right? Exactly. Like, that's what you had. Exactly. That should be next. That's always been, always been hey i got that any rich people want me if i'll bring someone we'll fight we will do that i promise you home fights yeah you're gonna get some i have a job i have skills they give you paid just how much time you need for this? How much money?

Two days. That's a fucking... There was also a gap between the table and the cage that didn't exist normally, too. Use your cage side, right? Yeah. Usually we're touching the cage. That's the funniest shit is you guys stand next to each other doing your interviews. Yeah.

And then all of a sudden you're at different tables. No logic. No logic. No logic. And people were upset. There was an article written about the fact that I didn't use social distancing inside the octagon. We were tested. I know, exactly. We were tested.

What are you talking about? People are just looking for shit to complain about. And by the way, these fucking two guys are about to fight. Yeah, we're going to swap bodies. No more social distance unfriendly thing ever. What's his name? Stephen A. Smith said that he thought that you guys didn't grapple because you were afraid of coronavirus. I thought you were joking, bro.

I don't dislike him. No, he said that. And he meant it. No, I thought you were joking. I laughed like you didn't go, bro. He meant it. He did say it. He meant it.

He didn't just say it. He fucking meant it. We're literally swapping blood here. Yeah, exactly. Like, this is HIV world, hepatitis world. Yes, yes, everything. You name it, you get it. Staff, everything.

Anything through blood. But that kind of talk. But Stephen A. Smith, though, he's a personality. Like, that's part of what he does. He's got hot takes on things. So when he says things. He could have not meant it He could be as smart as

Smarter than we think and said it Because of the reaction he would have got It's a fun thing to say Exactly It causes fucking shit It's clickbait Yeah, it's a lot Listen, he makes his living that way

We're all talking about him I mean, that's how he makes his living He makes his living getting people to talk about some of the things He's a very engaging personality. You have to use that in the next interview, though. I don't grapple because it's so disney. I'll use wrestling with it. I knew this shit was coming for the last seven years.

I hit him so hard because I was scared he was going to touch me and get that corona on me. I was trying to keep him six feet back. I think, real quick on the fight, I think people are like, why didn't he grapple? And a huge factor in the Khabib fight is going to be my feet work. There was never a spot when he felt comfortable to close the distance. I was constantly too far away and staying off the fence. So that's going to be huge against Khabib. Well, you have the style.

I mean, if you wanted to say, okay, what kind of style do you think would work against a guy like Khabib? First of all, a guy who's a fantastic defensive wrestler, like you said. And then a guy who's a superior striker. And those two things you have. You've got to stay off the fence. Yeah. You've got to have feet work. Without the feet work, you can't stay off the fence.

But Khabib's whole game is, you know, he's a great grappler as well. But his whole game is using that grappling in the fight. Against the fence. Yeah. You will not, if he's taking a shot in the open, it's to drive you to the fence to finish the takedown. He's not getting takedowns in the open. Interesting. You go watch all his fights, you're going to see maybe five, a handful,

if that, of takedowns in the actual center of the cage. He'll start in the middle, but he's going to push you, it's to push you to the cage and use the cage. It's going to be my feet work. It's going to be me keeping that distance where he feels slightly uncomfortable. Like when he did go for the M&R, I was just too far. He thought he was close enough, but I was just too far. Right. Well, he was already

beaten down by that point. Yeah, that was late too. Yeah, it was. Because he's super sneaky. Like the one he hit on Barbosa was sneaky. But it would have been the same in the first round because of the distance I was keeping. You know, you have to in order to shoot a double leg, you have to be at a distance in which you feel comfortable. In wrestling, it's always, you know, I shouldn't, unless my head's touching your head, I should never take a shot. Right. Because then I'm too far away.

Right. So controlling distance, staying off the fence is going to be the most important thing in the world when it comes to that fight. Now, when are they talking about for that fight? I mean, we got the same manager, so. That's kind of crazy for that fight i mean we got the same manager so that's kind of crazy whenever we want yeah that is the g man he's got you know well henry just left but 125 135 do you think henry's done for good 125 135 201 55 and 170 i mean i don't know any manager that's ever had that many champions in the stable i think henry a year and a half from now, is like, hmm. Oh, yeah.

It's business. Yeah, he wants big money. He deserves big money. He does. Look, he's one of the absolutely undeniably the greatest combat sport. But that weight class has always had issues with people getting paid. I love it. Anybody that just loves the fight, their technique is just so fun to watch. It's so fast.

I mean, Henry's a special guy. He really is. I mean, look at a guy who won the gold medal in the Olympics, won two divisions, and then he's winning by stoppages against world-class guys, smashing people. TKO's. Yeah. He's amazing. He really is amazing.

But I respect his choice. I mean, the guy decides to go out on top and will go down in history as one of the greatest of all time for sure. The UFC is probably, as athletes, the hardest people to do business with in the world. So when you do have the cards in your hand, you have to go to war for yourself. Because no other time will you be able to. But the only time he's going to have those cards is when he's actually the champion. Right now he is the champion. If he decides to vacate the title like he has is when he's actually the champion. Right now he is the champion. If he decides to

vacate the title like he has, they remove him from the rankings. They don't just give it back to you. I believe that he can earn it. He doesn't have no problem doing it. He'll get a title shot immediately. Right, but he would not be the champion going into the fight, so there's like financial considerations.

I believe that was him playing his cards. Going to war, you know, and they don't respect you enough. And so eventually you have to, at what point do you say no?

Right. I think legitimately he's probably done too. When you stop and think about the fact that he retired from wrestling at 21, you know,

not even at the peak of his powers, right, after he wins a gold medal and then the fact that he came back from that first-round stoppage to DJ and then beats him in the rematch, what was it, like two years later? And with his knee and his ankle always looking like it goes out,

like with that with the Morris fight and in that DJ fight, just so crazy, overcoming that and just getting, gosh. He has nothing left to accomplish. The Marlon Marais fight was incredible. Oh, gosh. Marlon's just fucking good, gosh. Marlon's so talented. Fucking good, man. And so nasty with his kicks. It was crazy.

It was like taking an ass-kicking for a round and then overcome that. And then to come back in the second round and just glue himself to his chest and start smashing him. The clinch. He's a very intelligent person. But retiring like that, if truly just go out... No one's done it like that. George has done it, but he had a rough fight prior to it.

Then he came back later. The thing is, no one's done it. I always say, do things outside the box. Be remembered. I think he'll fight again. He may. I think he will. Captain Eric thinks he's going to fight again.

But I do think it will be on his terms, which is ultimately all he's fighting for right now. Yeah, yeah. Well, listen, man, the guy, he's done amazing stuff. So the fight with you and Khabib, you both have the same manager. I hear talk about September. Are they saying that with you? Yeah. I mean, so again, we both pretty much we decide.

God, I hope they have a fucking audience. We don't decide. The UFC is the boss. They will. But you can't make anybody fight. And I'm ready in September. He's ready in September. So it's perfect.

Now, I know Vegas is going to at least allow some audiences in July, supposedly. Because I'm at that park theater, the one that's right across the street from T-Mobile. I'm there in July doing a comedy show. It's supposedly going to actually happen. They haven't canceled it. They haven't canceled it. They haven't canceled it. So I'm like, alright, is this real? I saw New Jersey opened up

pro sports. With an audience? I don't believe so. I didn't see that part. Yeah, that's huge. You and Khabib, as much as it was cool to see you and Tony fight with no audience, I kind of want to see a fucking penthouse. As much as I loved fighting with no audience, I want them there. The spectacle of that fight, that's such a big fight.

It's the biggest challenge of his career. It's the biggest challenge of Khabib's career. It's the biggest challenge of your career. 100%. Khabib's the greatest at what he does. Again, we can't take anything away from that. When you look at well-rounded fighters, he's well-rounded, but he's great in what he does.

And that is what made Chuck Liddell great. He had thunder in his hands, and he sprawled and brawled. You get hit by him, he's great at what he does. And that's what's so exciting is having opportunities to be able to step up. That's what I'm really excited for. I know he's excited for. And again, no one's got to see his wrestling. And I met this guy.

Watching him wrestle and what he does was so unique it's a total different style of wrestling than that's hard to train for and it's kind of like a hidden weapon so i feel like we're bringing something unique into this i think it's it's a very unique fight and it's also tony was thought to be the biggest threat to that title because tony is such a good grappler and he's so good on his feet and he fucks people up on his feet. So him fighting you and you stopping him, like you take that spot now. And also your style, in my opinion, is better. Oh, for sure.

I mean, the thing about Tony's style is that Tony can fight off of his back. He's not worried about takedowns and he submits a lot of guys. He was going to fight that fight with the mindset of being okay on his back. Yes. That was the thought process. Whereas your thought process is completely different. Being such a great defensive wrestler, but also being the superior striker.

Totally. It's a very dangerous fight for Khabib. Very dangerous. Especially the confidence you must have coming off of that five rounds with Tony. It feels good. I mean, I know how bad those kicks hurt. You know, if I can touch your calf,

I'm never kicking above the knee anymore. Really? Only below. No, he will. If you ever. Not on purpose. He will. Not on purpose. Never.

Really? Not on purpose. The calf kick's so devastating. So devastating. In the clinch, you're going to kick above the knee. Maybe. That's a non-never. Well, yeah, I'll try to break their knee by hypersending it.

But from the outside, you can fire it at a different distance. You're so much more safe. And there's so many nerves and ligaments that run through that part that have no protection. Your thigh has, you know, your quad is a big muscle. It's hard to get through your quad to those nerves. You could touch the nerves. That's why, you know, when he said Henry's calf and foot don't hurt. It's because he got kicked in the calf and the nerves stopped firing.

Just like Michael Chandler and Bell. It's unique, right? If I can touch, I got to touch Habib there four times and then he's compromised. Once he's compromised, he can shoot. But he has to have the fence. If he doesn't have the fence, there's no fucking way. I promise you that.

It has to be in the middle. There might be a scramble. He might out has to be in the middle. So. And he can give me, there might be a scramble. He might outscramble me in the middle once or twice. But if he wants to take me down, he's going to have to put me against the fence. Now, once they set this fight, you need eight weeks. Is that what you want? To get prepared? Yeah.

So. So we're getting close to that, right? We're in June in just a week or so. Yep. June, July, August. Yeah. So I'm taking, July, August. Yeah. So I take 30 days off. But they didn't give you a specific time?

I don't know anything. Yeah. Just September. They didn't say it's Fight Island? Is it Fight Island? My manager probably knows more details than I do. Fight Island seems like a fucking mess. There's not a lot.

Yeah. It does. That's what I was thinking. Treasure Island? Or they open it up at Treasure Island and make it seem... I need to see this place on Google Maps. Oh my gosh. That's what I was thinking. Treasure Island? Or they open it up at Treasure Island and make it see. I need to see this place on Google Maps. Oh my gosh. You know what it's like?

It's like fucking that movie Contact where they zoom in, zoom in close and you see the thing. It's like, it's also like, I want to like look at Google Maps. Look, they're fucking constructing the octagon. They built an island. They put a whole bunch of dirt. David won't even tell me. David tells me everything.

He won't tell me. And where's this fucking island? I don't know. I don't know nothing, dude. I'm not sure if it's real. Yeah, it might be just saying it just so he can get another day set for his little spot in Vegas and just be like, oh, man, we don't need it. For international flights, it seems like the only option.

Yes. Until the US opens back up. You ain't getting visas right now. No. You're not getting visas. And I don't even know how they're going to have to fly everybody private to this fucking island. Yeah.

I want to know if I can get back right yeah that's the thing right where are you gonna land your win bonus includes a flight if you lose you got that that boat nor you land in mexico you land in tijuana and then you have a boat you gotta get to san diego and then we'll drive you home it's, but I love the fact that they decided to do all these different things. Like have the Tai Chi Palace fights. That got canceled because the governor got his panties in a wad. But this Florida thing was great. And I'm glad that the fights are rolling again.

This weekend's a tough fight, man. Tyron and Gilbert. That's a tough fight for Tyron. Are they doing it in Florida? I don't know where they're doing that. Where is that fight? I don't... It might be an Apex fight.

It might be of the Apex. I know they're trying to move there. Actually, I think it is because they were saying if not, they would move it to Arizona. Okay. I don't know. I think it was for this fight. Yeah, Arizona doesn't give a fuck. They're buck wild now.

It's the wild, wild west. It is the wild, wild. You can have an open carry gun. Tombstone. Have you seen the movie Tombstone? Yeah. So 40 miles north of that is where i grew up las vegas apex center now here's interesting as well because the apex center is a smaller fight uh smaller octagon yeah instead of a 30-foot octagon i bet they'll move it they have to move a 30 foot in there no no dude that's like that's like at the palms like when you fight at the palms you fight with a smaller one yeah the old days yeah so this one is a 25 foot octagon it's it's smaller but it might i think it's a good size it is smaller but it's not too small it's it's gonna

it's gonna force guys to engage 20s almost too small 20 small but this is 25. you found a square cage out there did you victory victory and a square cage out there. Did you? Victory. In a square cage. Shit, the cage I fought in, Rage of the Cage, that thing was maybe like 12 foot, 10 foot. It was like, boom, you're fighting. Speaking of the cage, the movie The Big Boom, I just watched that the other night. It was classic with you in it. Here comes the boom? Here comes the boom.

You were like signing people for fights. It was classic. It's so ridiculous. But the cage in there Would have fallen apart So it's It's the best Movies like that

Are just the best Yeah they never get it right Warrior Warrior didn't get it right They fought two days in a row I'm like What the fuck are you talking about You ever seen somebody

The day after a fight Yeah no So stupid Classic dude This is Hollywood bullshit You know It was awesome though That was some entertainment for me It was awesome, though.

That was some entertainment for me. It was fucking awesome. The Apex Center is going to be very interesting because that's even smaller. Way smaller. Because it was weird being that 15,000 seat place in Florida. I did. When I got in there, I looked around and I was like, this is fucking weird. So weird. They could have had that at the hotel.

We could have had a conference room. Just set up the oxygen. I've been in some fights like that where you've got a promoter who promotes for the first time and they're like, cool, have your fighters. And you're just hoping your fighter gets paid because you look at a crowd and there set up the ox gun. I've been in some fights like that where you got a promoter who promotes for the first time and they're like, cool, have your fighters and you're just hoping your fighter gets paid because you look at a crowd

and there's like 12 people. Yes. And they've got an arena like that. I've seen that. Yeah. I've seen it. I've been a part of some events

where you're like, you're hoping your guys get paid because you show up and fight but there ain't no one in the crowd. Yeah. But it was unique because you have the TV.

It's just, you know you're on the big show. But it was just, it was the TV. You know you're on the big show. But it was super unique. Well, Gilbert's already done that. He's already done no crowd because he did the no crowd in Brazil. He fought Damian Maia. So he's used to the experience. This will be Tyron's first fight like that.

This is different. What is different about it? Like when you walk into the octagon and Bruce Buffer's, Justin, the Highline, KG! Nothing. He's screaming and nothing. You don't hear anything. There's no people.

It's weird. You just hear the echo of his sound. I'm in such a fucking special place at that time. I have no idea. I mean, I'm there, but I'm not there. What is happening in your head? There's literally not a thing. Like, not a thing.

You just go blank. Pure bliss. Just peace. Really? It's weird, yeah. Peace. No nerves? I don't feel a thing.

Really? So I get in there, you know, I looked him in the eyes, and then, you know, he broke for a second, and I was like, all right, give me some water i got the smoke fire then then then it's just peace then so then it's like a from the minute the minute training camp starts like a tunnel just closing and closing and closing and you get knocked on you just see the the blue canvas the lights you can i understand like i noticed the. It's really bright. There's like a smell. I smell it.

And then the tunnel just closes. He's announcing. I've never even seen Bruce Buffer's face in there. I've never heard his voice. I've never heard Bruce Buffer's voice in there. Really? And then it just closes. And the fight starts and it's just whoom.

And it just closes and it's over. Wow. The difference between your fights where you you said you were having too much fun like the poirier fight or the eddie alvarez fight and now what what what is the difference so that was even so once the tunnel closed with those fights it was like over over now i i get like i have like three pieces from this fight that I can remember. And so I'm more present now. More calculated. Yeah.

I'm as present as I can possibly be while still able to rely on my reactions and my intuition. So your reactions and your intuition is all the stuff that you worked on in training, and then you just trust it. You trust that process once you get inside the octagon. Yep, and my timing is unbelievable. Just weird things. Like, my dad's a genius. My dad has honed these certain skills.

Like, right now I'm seeing him doing it with my nephew, but he'll be watching TV and he'll throw a ball to you and you have to catch it as many times as you can, and he'll move it back. You know, he'll start throwing it sideways, and you try to get to 100. First you get to 50, then you try to beat 50. Then he's going outside and he's throwing a ball to you and you have to catch it as many times as you can and he'll move it back you know he'll start throwing it sideways and you try to get to 100 first you get to 50 then you try to beat 50 then he's going outside he's throwing a ball into the roof and it's rolling down you have to kind of listen to it and as it's falling you got to call it trying to react to as it's falling to the ground like these small little things that my dad has done like since i was a baby

um and my weird ocd when i'm driving in cars as a kid, anytime there was a shadow cast on the road, I always had to blink as the shadow was in between the tires. So it's just my ability to react and not hesitate is I believe what's allowing me to do that inside the octagon in those situations. Well, whatever the fuck it was. Yeah, that sounds so stupid and weird. No, it doesn't sound that stupid. Those small little skills that I've constantly worked on since I was,

and I never knew why. I never knew why I was doing this. But now, you know, hindsight is always 20-20. It's crazy because this is not something you could decide to do as an adult, right? This is something you've built up your whole life, and now you can do it. But your split-second timing and counter shots with Tony was pretty spectacular. Second to none. No one will beat me. Conor McGregor is going to be a fucking race. You can do it, but your split-second timing and counter shots with Tony was pretty spectacular. Second to none.

No one will beat me. Conor McGregor is going to be a fucking race. We're talking about milliseconds here, and that's the race that we'll have. Is that a fight you're looking forward to? I do. I want to shut him up. I would love that. I really would.

Do you think that's a possible fight? I could fight him right now if I wanted to. You think so? And everyone is going to say that I'm lying and if it was there, I would take it. Daniel Cormier said that the other day. I'm not that fighter. For one, I have an opportunity to do something that can be unmatched in the history of our sport. To go in there, to come off the circumstances, to beat Tony like I did, go beat Khabib, go beat Conor, that's legendary.

So that's what you want to do. You want to beat Khabib and then fight Conor. But when you said you could fight Conor right now, why are you saying that? Well, he's calling me out. But is he really? Because he was saying something about Usman, too. And I know that's not real. He doesn't want that. I think he would take the fight.

With Usman or you? With me. Okay, yeah. He wants to fight Habib. But I'm the only way you have to go. You had to go. He could have got, when he picked Cowboy, he could have gone through me. He could have gone through me.

There's no, you know, if you're a fan of the sport. But don't you think he matches up way better with Cowboy? That doesn't matter. That's irrelevant. But I think it is for him. I think to make a spectacular performance, I think he felt like he matched up. I think it was smart. Yeah.

But now you're going to call for a title shot? No. Like, I'm in a great position because, for one, I get to fight for a title. There's 500-some- some odd people on this roster. Every single one of them would want to be in my position right now. But I also have the ability to bring some kind of, I always draw a blank when it comes to this word, but a rhyme or a reason, a way, a way to a title shot. For young guys that come in, they think politics run the show. They ultimately do.

But there is a small chance that you get a say in your destiny and eliminate politics and that's what i just did um politics were gonna fuck me i wasn't gonna get the fight connor was gonna somehow or some way get that fight and now i got the chance to go out there and i you know did what i did well just through the virtue of your performances, you become incredibly popular. And that's enough. That's enough. It's popularity is everything.

I mean, this is a weird game. You have to win. You have to win. But it's also the way you win. Like you, and also when, and you winning the way you did in Florida when there was nothing else going on in the world. There's no live sports.

And so you winning the way you did and doing it in such spectacular fashion Against a hugely respected guy like Tony Ferguson that makes you undeniable and when you're undeniable Weird things happen, you know timing is everything doors get opened timing is everything. It was a perfect time It was you know Destiny whatever it is, you know, I don't put anything into any of those things. I just do what I can do today. But, you know, timing is everything,

and it feels like that was part of my destiny, to have the opportunity at that time under these circumstances. Well, it certainly is a magical storyline. If you were writing a movie, I mean, that would be the best way to. And if I can, when I go beat Habib and then I beat Connor, what run in the history of this sport has been better? Coming off two losses, getting counted out. You know, that's what I'm here for.

I can inspire the world. Now, do they have anything lined up for Conor now? Because Conor keeps talking like something's happening. He's going back and forth from the boxing to the MMA that it's, again, it's— Right, he keeps talking about fighting Floyd again. He's trying to talk people from the boxing to the MMA that it's again it's... Right, he keeps talking about fighting Floyd again. He's trying to talk people into that he's the number one. I would say he said he was going to come back and do the season.

If you have to put an argument for yourself, you are not that man. Where's the season? He talked about doing the season. And don't get me wrong, I respect the shit out of him. He can fight his ass off. But he was like, I'm going to do a season. I'm going to have three fights in three months or whatever he said. And the whole thing is people stop listening when you're not sticking to your word. And if you're going to fight, fight.

Stay irrelevant. Pick away class. Be just consistent as you are when you fight because he's super consistent when he fights. He's very talented. Yeah. I said in an interview that he was losing clout among fighters and in the game. Dana White's laughing at him. A reporter asked him.

He said, Connor says he's fighting Justin next. Dana laughs. That's all the proof you need right there. That's, you're losing respect. So he has to go and fight. Yeah, he has to kind of earn a position. I mean, beating Cowboy's nice, but he's got to kind of get another win.

100%. Something else has got to happen to really sell the public on it. 100%. You can sell a certain percentage of the public based on his name. And it was at 170. I mean, again, there's the consistency.

I look at it from a consistency standpoint. It's like, what weight class are you going to go in? I feel if he was fighting at 145, he's very unstoppable. I feel like that's the weight class for him. But him changing weight, if I was a coach with him, I'd be like, hey, man, pick a weight class. Be consistent. He's so big for 145. I know.

I don't know how the, man, pick a weight class, be consistent. He's so big for 145. I know. I don't know how the fuck he ever made that weight. But again, he came from those weight classes. He's also super hungry. He's getting up to stronger dudes. Yes. Like, his speed is key. And when you go up bigger weight classes, you start to lose your speed. Well, that's why the Usman fight I thought was so ridiculous.

When I saw them, Usman was posting photos of that. I'm like, that is so crazy. Totally. Because Usman is enormous. Yep. And he's so powerful. I was sparring with him for this camp. William?

He's a big dude. Yeah, he's a big guy. He's a big guy and he's strong as fuck. Like when Usman gets a hold of guys, he drags them to the ground. It's crazy, right? I mean, he's an incredible wrestler. And his mind, too. His mind's very, very powerful.

So when I was looking at that, I was like, wow, is that really happening? Totally. But it's not., is that really happening? Totally. But it's not. Yeah, that fight's not happening. I even texted Dana about that one. I'm like, come on, man. I didn't even know nothing about that. I really haven't been working on it.

So that's when Conor's talking about 70. After he fought Cowboy, he was like, I feel so good at 170. I'm like, hmm, okay. It's all show. Yeah. It's all game. I think he really did feel good. But he was fighting a guy who's not a real 170. He'm like, dude, okay. It's all show. Yeah. It's all game. I think he really did feel good, but he was fighting a guy

who's not a real 170. He fought a 55er. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So your ultimate goal is to do that, to beat Conor,

and then what do you do? Do you have a long term? Fight Poirier. Fight Poirier. Get the fuck out of here. And that's it? That's all I need. Wow.

What do I need after that? Yeah. That would be legendary. I'd make plenty of money, which is ultimately what I'm here to do. And I took control of my destiny, which is all I asked for. Yeah, so it's good. Business-wise, the smart move could be right now to fight Conor, because obviously that's a lot of money.

I think you have more leverage beating Khabib. I make way more money when I beat Khabib and then fight. And if Conor's not there, I'll fight Poirier. He's not on my list. Khabib and Poirier are the two on my list right now.

If I fight them two with big paydays, and I'm good That's a great plan man This is a good way to wrap this up listen man. It's been an honor privilege having you guys in here really appreciate it It's a dream come true for me man. You're you're a legend. Thank you brother You're a legend too, and I really fucking hope these goddamn gloves make their way into the UFC They will I ain't all about timing, right? They're superior.

And I really hope I'm there in September when you guys fight. I can't wait to see it. Fight I heard, motherfucker. I heard maybe I was kind of pissed. This is the first fight you've ever commented. No, you did Eddie Alvarez fight, too. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But this was the second. It was fucking awesome. Yeah, I was glad you were there. Appreciate it. Oh, yeah. All right. Thank you, guys. Thank you.

Bye, everybody. the second yeah it was fucking awesome yeah i appreciate it yeah all right thank you guys thank you bye everybody