The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #97 with Henry Cejudo

Episode Date: June 8, 2020

Joe sits down with the former UFC flyweight champion and UFC bantamweight champion, Henry Cejudo.

Henry Sahudo how are you sir I'm doing good good to see you man what does it feel like what does it feel like having stepped back

you step away you get to look at it from a fresh perspective what does this feel like it feels good man it feels I think the biggest thing with me Joe is

there's satisfaction in my life you know what I'm saying I've done so much in the sport. And I can compare myself a little bit to Daniel. You know, if Daniel would have beat Stipe Miocic

and he would have retired on top, you could almost say he retired as a two-division world champ. And I don't feel like I have that chip on my shoulder. You know, as a wrestler, I retired from the Olympics at a very young age. You know, decided to come back three years later. But, you know what I mean?

It was already done. You know what I mean? I retired at the age of 21. And then now at the age of 33, I'm truly calling it quits unless there's a couple fights that if I do come back. I like that word, unless. I like that word. Yeah, and as you know, and a little bit before it was about the money a little bit with the UFC. And obviously, you know, everybody does have a price.

But I think there's a fight that I would really like in the UFC, and that would be against Alexander Volkanovsky. Really? Yeah. At 45? At 45. If they were to give me an opportunity to go up and obviously be compensated, then that would be a fight that would really wake me up in the morning. Be like, hey man, this is a challenge. This is a whole new mountain. A chance to be a three-division world champion.

A chance to be a three-division world champion. As you know, a lot of people have counted me out against Demetrius, against TJ, against Marlon. Maybe it was you too, Joe. No, no, no. And I think that's what I love about it. You can't Marlon. Maybe it was you too, Joe. No, no, no. And I think that's what I love about it. You can't find any evidence of me counting you out, sir. Never. So I love that. I love challenges.

Since I was a kid, I knew I was different. I knew I was special. What is it that you knew? What separates you? Oh, my God. I think it's a couple of things. If I was to explain it to you, like what what separates you oh my god i think it's i think it's a couple things if i was to explain it to you like what's what's made me successful and and i've seen it you know being at the olympic training center and as a high school kid and living out there for four years and

that's actually where i met daniel you know i was a 16 year old kid when i first met these guys and i was able to analyze a lot of the greats like you know uh Stephen Abbott Daniel Cormier a lot of the Olympic team and uh what I've learned now that the age of 33 I learned that there's been two things that have separated me from from the rest of the pack it's it's it's two things what I call heart and ability and I was actually able to tell this story to uh to Chachri you know the the founder and CEO of 1FC and uh you know so's two things. I call it heart and ability. What is your heart? Your heart is your passion, your will, your desire, your determination. Your heart is something that you're willing to suffer for in order to obtain. Now, the next one is

ability. You know, ability is a gift that you have since, you know, it's a coordination. It's something that you've repped over time where you become a master at it. And what happens a lot of time, I always tell people it's good to question one or the other. It's good to question the mind. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, the heart or the ability. Because to be the 1% of the 1% is like both of these things have to match. What happens is a lot of people have heart heart but their ability is like way down here you know their ability doesn't match their heart or their abilities up here and they're just a little lazy and can't really put the you know because

there is a separation between mind and body and your job is to connect them both and i'm going to use an example uh with marlon maria you saw me getting my ass kicked you saw me me getting leg kicked, you know, from the first all the way to the second round. But I knew that I had to connect it and make that transition. That was a combination of combining the heart and the ability. You know, so I was able to kind of, so what separated me, I'd say that. I think it's being gifted through the ability and then just having a passion, a will that's just second to none. There's a lot of other factors though, isn't there? There's like not just ability.

It's also you have to be coached by someone who really knows what they're doing. There's so many guys out there that are really tough and they have will and they work out hard and they're in shape. But they just make technical mistakes and they've never corrected those mistakes. Yeah. Well, I think that also goes back on the ability. I would put that into the ability portion. The reason why is because you got to put yourself in the right situations. Like, I didn't start winning until I let go of my coaches.

The first time I lost to Demetrius Johnson, it was hard. And this sounds very crazy and cynical, but it was kind of hard to blame myself. Even though I was training because I knew coming from the Olympic sport that I had a coach that could take me to the top. And there was no ifs or whats. I knew he knew the recipe. And MMA was still a fairly new sport. So I knew that I had to find the professors So I knew that I had to find the professors. I knew that I had to find the scientists

and all this together in order for me to become that perfect storm. So that's exactly what we did. You know, putting the science, the recovery of finding the right coaches, listening to my ability, understanding my biomechanics. Like it was a mixture of all these things

that's made, that's separated me from the first time i fought demetrius to just being a just being a legend killer man to being all these guys that they said that you know demetrius johnson tj you know marlon mariah's dominant cruise man that's that's a hell of a list joe hell of a list you know that's a hell of a list it's one of the reasons why it bums me out that you retired like I have conflicting feelings. One, I'm happy. I'm happy you retired young and healthy, and you can do anything you want, man.

I really believe a guy who can accomplish what you accomplished inside the octagon and also winning an Olympic gold medalist. You're winning an Olympic gold medal in wrestling at 21 years old, retiring from the sport, then getting into MMA, becoming a two-division world champion in MMA, and then stepping away while you're still healthy and at the peak of your abilities. Part of me loves that. I love the fact that you did what you wanted to do, and then you step away.

But part of me looks back at, say, when you fought Benavidez, or say, when you fought Demetrius the first time, and then looks at you now, like you're a completely different animal. Nobody had been able to shut down Dominic Cruz's footwork game. But you came in and just chopped the shit out of his legs. Just right off the bat, whatever advantage we thought that he would have with his footwork and movement was actually becoming a disadvantage because you were using that against him.

You found the angles and you found the perfect times to attack his legs, and then you put him away, which is also something no one's ever done before except Uriah caught him in a submission and finished him. But no one's ever put him away the way you did. Yeah, and I think it's all about game planning. I think people, you know, I think the ability that I have, too, that separates me, too, is the fact that I'm,watch all my fights, man. I fight everybody different.

Like, I really do, man. There's times where I have to use wrestling as I did with the Beatrice. Well, the Wilson Hayes fight's a great example. You came out like a karate guy. Yeah. I was like, holy shit, look at this. You were like Wonderboy. Sideway stance, like hands down.

You really fought like a karate guy. And then when you caught him with that straight punch and dropped him, I was like, look at this shit. This is crazy. Like you fought a different style. Yeah, and I think with Dominic too, just to get back to him, it's in order for you to understand the funk, like you have to train for the funk. You know, if you don't train for Dominic, if you think you can just go out there and just fight or train the way you train and try to fight Dominic, you're going to be missing. So throughout my training camps, like I treated almost like a wrestler, like a boxer, like my training camp, like I build a team around me. I have a mentor actually who's here, Dave Zowan, who's, you know, who's been helping me to shape.

He's a businessman, but he's been able to help me to form like you know obviously the perfect storm and you know we brought guys in from california that mimic just like dominic that were just a little faster than dominic and i knew that i wasn't even trying to touch his face because i knew that he was a hard hit but i also knew that he would leave his legs a lot you know he you can you can push your body backwards but your legs will always be in that same position so the whole game plan since the beginning, this is why I felt so confident in that fight, through training was to continue just keep taking his legs out as much as I can. Did the first round of your fight with Marlon Marais sort of open your eyes to how effective that can be in a fight? Absolutely, man.

We saw it this weekend. Yes. We saw it this weekend. You mentioned it, man. We saw it this weekend. We saw it this weekend. You mentioned it, actually. And I was a little bummed out you mentioned it because a lot of people don't see those little details, those calf kicks, man. You start to take out that lead leg, man, and you lose your mobility. It's insane how we've had all these years of MMA, right? 1993, the UFC starts. Here we are in 2020. But it's really only been the last two years or so. I give credit to

Benson Henderson because Benson Henderson was the first guy to really bring it to MMA. But for whatever reason, it wasn't as devastating when he was doing it. I don't know if he was doing it differently, but there was no moment in a fight where he kicked someone's calf and you saw immediately them buckling. But you're seeing that now with these guys, like immediately one, two kicks and their leg is semi-useless yeah you look at somebody like justin gaethje justin gaethje is man if people don't catch on to that if khabib don't catch on to that man he's in trouble and i know them both he said why like wide out in the open he said when i fight khabib he goes i'm not even gonna try to kick him in his

thighs i'm just gonna kick him with that low calf kick he goes i'm gonna kick him four times he goes, I'm not even going to try to kick him in his thighs. I'm just going to kick him with that low calf kick. He goes, I'm going to kick him four times. He goes, after four times, he's fucked. Yeah. And he saw that. You watched the fight with him and Etten Barbosa. And Etten Barbosa, he's a high-level striker. But what really broke down Etten Barbosa was what Justin did to him. He started whipping that calf kick.

And actually, right before I even fought Dominic, like I went on YouTube, like this was like maybe an hour before I went to the arena and I just put like some Justin Gaethje highlights. Just ruthless, man. Just really just swinging

those kicks with bad intentions. All of them was just to murder you. And also the reason why I've been able to kick and do things like that is because I'm very confident with my takedown defense. You know?

It's like Jon Jones. Jon Jones is so comfortable with the stand-up because he knows his ability to stop Tony from taking him down is just so much higher, and I feel that same way, so I become a little more free with my kicks and punches and things of that matter. We saw two guys in one of the weight classes that you ruled over, Alex Perez and Juicy A. Formiga, this past weekend, and Alex Perez stopped him with those low leg kicks. Two UFCs in a row, we've seen guys get stopped with low leg kicks.

It's crazy. It's crazy how prominent that technique has become. It has. It has. And I think we're going to start seeing more of it. So people are going to have to start adjusting that because there's, what was it? There's two stoppages within a, there's a stoppage before Alex Perez recently that came up.

Yeah. Last week, last week of this style, forget who, who was fighting, but it was another stoppage because leg kicks in that stoppage, the dude crushed both of his legs. I apologize for not remembering the names.

I'm overrun. I didn't call that fight either. I called it. I probably remember it, but the, the low leg kick is just a gigantic factor when you were fighting uh marlon morais i mean it seemed like he was a bit of a step ahead of you in the first round but you made some serious adjustments in between it was like two different fights it was like the first round was like damn this is not going well for henry And then going into the second round, like, damn, this is not going well for Marlon. It was a totally different fight.

It's like you figured the adjustment out, figured out what you needed to do. You stepped in further. You were closer. And you started attacking. Yeah, and I think a lot of that, too, Joe, and if I was – I know when to fight and when to compete. And when Marlon – because first, I went into it with a sprained ankle. This is why I had my ankle tape. And actually Marlon's team had heard me scream on Tuesday night

when all this happened. So they knew I was somewhat injured. So I think their game plan is to begin with. When did you scream? I twisted my ankle between the UFC mats. Like, you know, they had some cheap tape. And then between the mats when I stepped in, like, I rolled my ankle like bad. Bad.

I have pictures of it. It's like black and blue. But I still wanted to fight. So, you know, so anyway, so, you know, I went in there hurt or whatnot. But I knew that that first round, and you mentioned it too during the fight. You said, I think this might be a survival round for henry and it absolutely was so i knew when to fight and what to compete but i also knew that marlon merlin was throwing so much power and i've gone i've gone against some of the best in the world there's like dude there's no way

he's gonna be able to maintain all that power for five rounds and i don't think this kid has any idea as a wrestler because he's never wrestled before how much pain a guy like me can endure so he can say he was tired he can say that i don't something happened but in reality it's a mixture of two things he blew his wad and this guy this guy here could uh which is me could take a lot of pot could take a lot of pain i was with mike not too long ago, and I asked him, I was like, hey, Mike, this is Mike Tyson. I'm like, how would you describe Muhammad Ali, man?

What was the difference between him and everybody else? And he sat there, and he thought about it, and he's like, which was cool to hear, man, because I can put myself in those shoes. And he's like, man, Muhammad Ali was a guy that I've never seen before because he could just endure so much pain. Like the dude could just endure so much pain that it's almost like the average guy would fold. The average guy would probably get killed. But Ali just had a certain will to him that separated him from everybody everybody else it was the fact that he was able to endure pain like you don't hear that too often it's true though you know i mean if you watch his

fight with ken norton you know he fought most of the fight with a broken jaw yeah i mean this is heavyweights too man oh yeah man that's probably a five pound jaw too man he fought big heavyweights i mean george foreman in his prime. Joe Frazier when Joe Frazier was in his prime. Same example. George Foreman, Louis Watt. He had no idea how much pain Ali could endure.

And how much movement Ali had going for him. Ali was so slick. There's a famous video of Ali with his hands on the ropes, and George is just swinging punches at him, and Ali is using the ropes. He's holding on to the ropes and using the ropes,

and he's not even putting his hands up at all. And the most murderous puncher up to that time since Sonny Liston in the history of the heavyweight division. You got like Joe Frazier was a power puncher. Joe lewis was a sniper he was an excellent power puncher but george former would lift people in the air yeah he would hit people like you ever see his first knockout with uh joe frazier yeah he had knocked him on then he fought all the right after he beat frazier yeah when he fought frazier he literally lifted him in the air with a punch that's how hard joe frazier would hit and ali no no hands up.

Just holding on to the ropes. Doing this shit. Sitting in front of him. Leaning back. Doing this shit. Crazy. Yeah, but imagine how many of those punches even though he didn't get hit in the face, imagine how many of those punches George Foreman was throwing at him and then Ali was just laughing and talking to him.

It's a certain mind power, man. It's a mind fuck. You just cannot replicate, man. It's got to be to you. It's a certain mind power, man. It's a mind power. That you cannot, you just cannot replicate, man. Like, that's got to be in you. Right. Or you have to have developed it over time and have complete confidence in it. You know, there's, I think you can build mental toughness. I really do.

I think it happens. But I think you have to be very conscious about it. I think it has to be done over time. Some people build mental toughness because of their environment or because of how they grew up or some of the bad things they've faced in their life. And some people build mental toughness out of a decision. They make a decision to be mentally tough.

And then they actually cultivate that. They work on that. I think it's a mixture of both. And this is why sometimes I respect more of the upper middle class when they become champions, especially in a rough sport like wrestling or MMA. It's because I feel like minorities or people that have gone through adversity, it's like, man, we have an advantage because it's through the nurture side of things. How you were raised, man. I'm one of seven kids, Joe, raised by a single mother. And i was the youngest man so i was a kid that was picked on you know i was picked on by no i was like it's different when you're the smallest in the immigrant family you know

it's like dude you're the last one to eat you're gonna get beat up pretty much the majority of your childhood so you start getting to that age where you could kind of fight back so a lot of it i guess you owe through the through and nurture, obviously genetics, your mother and father, but also through the nature side of it. How you were raised, man. How tough are you? Like me as a kid growing up, I remember as a family, hot summer days would come around. We didn't eat, man. We didn't eat, man.

Going to school was a place for us to like at least for at least i could say my family they don't talk about that stuff so much they're a little more private but for me it was like dude i get a chance to eat lunch and breakfast well that was a big problem with this covid shit where they shut schools down and a lot of kids are in that same position where that was their opportunity to eat and some people were just i'm not aware of that that that's where a lot of people got their food was at school right right and i was one of those kids so i if there's any of those kids or any of those guys that are adults now it's like hey man be happy for that because i tell you what's made me has been adversity man is going is understanding that that grind that grit man

of being angry and things like that if you're able to challenge that into something constructive yeah joe i'm gonna live an example man you are you are look at that flag behind you i represented that flag you did you know and ironically you know my mom came to this country you know maybe not the most political way but she came to this country to live the american dream. Her American dream was just to make sure her kids. Well, it's a timing thing, you know, because my grandparents came over here, too. But they came over here when it was easy. You just came over and you just signed some shit and you were in. Yeah.

You know, in the early 1900s, it's just, look, if that's how it was today, you wouldn't have the kind of illegal immigration you have today This country was founded on people coming over here because it was easy It was a better place to live you you have a better life for your family But there was no hoops to jump through my grandparents just arrived. They just came here and moved in I mean they didn't they didn't have to take any like serious tests or do any crazy shit. They just came here and moved in i mean they didn't they didn't have to take any like serious tests or do any crazy shit they just came in you know they didn't have to prove that they had some special skills like now it's very difficult for people to come over here and to to get uh citizenship no it is and i do believe even as an immigrant said that there is a pathway you know

to citizenship because you're right times times do change and you have to adjust to whatever political power is going on right now. I just happen to be fortunate that my mom did it. Yeah, your mom did it, yeah. I said, she crossed. I'm here now. I think guys like you are amazing sources of inspiration for other people that are struggling.

And this is crazy, Joe, so I'm going to mention something to you. My mom, both of my parents came here illegally. I'll just say it, man. You guys forgive me. Don't tell Trump. But my mom was granted her citizenship. So when I won the Olympics, my mom wasn't able to attend the 2000 Olympics due to her

citizenship status. So then three years later after that she was awarded her citizenship but at the age of 20 so you know I stand on both fences man like my dad he was uh my you know my father which I was just raised by my mother he committed crimes in and out he was in and out of jail here in California he was actually deported so I was a five-year-old kid my dad was deported never came back to America so i i understand both sides man like and i hate to say this but it's true it's my dad came here as a foreigner as as an illegal and he decided to break the law man and rightfully so man he should go back to his native country my

mother came here you know illegally uh uh you know uh paid her fine paid her taxes and whatnot and then she was granted her citizenship in 2000 2011 man so i've been able to speak on this on on behalf of congress and kind of share my story to the world man because man i'm it's almost like i become neutral you break the law you go man you you obey the law after a certain amount of time. Maybe you might get granted as an American. Yeah. Yeah, it's a very frustrating thing for people who do want to have a better life for their family. They realize how difficult it is to come here. I fully understand illegal immigration.

I fully understand wanting to keep out people that are criminals and people that are murderers and people that are in the drug trade but if i was a person who was struggling to feed my family in south america or in mexico or wherever and i i found out that i could sneak in and then i could do better i would sneak in yeah i would do it 100 and anybody says they wouldn't you're lying yeah you're lying if you found out there was a place across the border where you could make five times as much and you could send money back and all you had to do was grind, this place where literally anybody can go from being

completely impoverished to being on top of the world, to being a millionaire. This is the place. I think the best example, man, I hate to use the example because he's burned a lot of people, is Don King. Well, Don King is maybe not the best example because he was born in America. First of all, and he's a murderer twice, twice over.

He's an example of a different time. And you talk to guys like Mike Tyson, he'll tell you that that guy played me and fucked me over. Right, right. You're probably right. He's a criminal. Maybe Don King. He'll tell you that that guy played me. Right, right.

Yeah, you're probably right. Maybe Don Cree. But what I'm saying is he's been able to come out of, you know, obviously he was a murderer, but he was able to somewhat make it in the sport that he desired to be at that time. I'm not, you know, obviously I think we all know he's a crook. But, man, it lets you know what America's able to do, man. It doesn't matter what you've done in life. You really do get only a second, a third, but a a fourth and a thousand opportunities he's from a different era i feel like if the

internet was around well you know who knows maybe he'd be president today look at our president man this is why this dude this is why this is why like like dude trump trump is the example of the american dream in many ways yeah the a faulty version of it but yeah in many ways yeah i think the other person that i'm probably not the version of the american dream because his dad was rich and he gave him money like he started off his dad gave him millions of dollars to start businesses right but i mean he turned that into billions too he did but he also went bankrupt a bunch of times too yeah you got me joe i mean it's it's it's tricky i mean you can't deny the fact that the guy's been remarkably successful yeah but like the extenuating circumstances that

led to that success is very different than your mother sneaking over here because she wanted to do better for her family you know that's that's the raw version of the american dream i mean the american dream is really immigration and that's really what it like I'm a version of the American dream I'm third generation American my grandparents came over here because they wanted a better life their parents wanted a better life They came over here from Italy and from Ireland Yeah, it's a trip man. I when you think when you talk about things like that You know who I think of a lot when you talk about the American dream, man. No

You know, he's in my opinion i feel like he's somewhat misunderstood in our mma community or just in general man is uh uh is is ali abdelaziz man a dude that came from egypt you know came to america i remember i'll leave i've known him for a minute since since 2004 you know he would sell fubu like out he was just hustling the whole time out of colorado springs and uh you know now i would sell FUBU, like, out. He was just hustling the whole time out in Colorado Springs. And, you know, now, I mean, he's got over 150 fighters. I mean, he's got five champions in the UFC. I mean, this dude is, when I think of the American dream, I really do think of somebody like Ali.

Well, he's a very controversial guy. He is. He is. But his clients love him. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, it's hard to deny um but his clients love him oh yeah oh yeah you know it's it's hard to hard to deny that his clients love him i mean there's a lot of people that say a lot of wild shit about him i don't know how much of it's true yeah but the bottom line is you talk to guys like justin gagey guys like yourself you know many fighters that have had come in here that are repped by him and they love the guy yeah khab Khabib. Frankie. Frankie. Yeah, Frankie.

All these dudes. Cody, Verdum. And he's been able to, and I've been there, and I've never seen this before, but he's kind of like the glue with all of us. Dude, I was eating lunch and dinner with Marlon. Were you really? Yeah, not too long. Before or after the fight?

This was like maybe four months after my fight. Oh, wow. I mean, I'm sure it must have stung, but out of the respect for him. And I told that to Ali. I'm like, Ali, man, these dudes are good. Because I was picking on Frankie Edgar too, but I was like, man, you're next, dude. You're going to bend the knee. And I was like, Ali, these dudes are going to want to fight me, man.

There's two against one. Who's back? He's like, my brother. He's like, you think they're going to do that when I'm here, man? He he's like these guys respect as much as you do and i'm just like huh and then we sat down it was just like nothing ever happened man well that's very cool that uh marlon has that kind of character that he could sit down with you after that fight that's very cool yeah marlon's an interesting guy man he's uh he's one of those guys that like you wonder like is he too big for that division like how much is how much weight is that man cutting?

He's so fucking big. To see him get down to 135, look how shredded he is. What do you walk around at? He looks like he walks around about 160-something. Yeah, he's big. I personally think that Marlon could hurt some people at 145 pounds. I think so, too. It's that risk versus reward.

Like, when do you move away? When do you go up? When do you stay down? Like, how much are you beating your body up? And then you got some guys who go down later in their career. You know, like Barbosa's a good example. Barbosa in his last fight. I thought he got robbed.

I thought he won that decision. And he got down to 145 that's that's not always the answer joe look i mean look at me i was at 125 pounds and could i still make it yeah i could still make it but the fatigue that it bring to me like the i think the psychology side too of cutting weight like going going down is not always the answer i started having my best success when i decided like hey man i'm just sick of cutting weight man i'm getting ready to go up and you know challenge myself 135 pounds and what you hear from the naysayers just like man he's just you're too small man you're not ready for some power like that i'm just like no i don't think so man i think

there's an advantage of me for me to feel well if i feel well and i feel healthy with my speed you know i'm a i'm a short compact fighters like man trust me i don't need that much as long as i there's an advantage of me for me to feel well. If I feel well and I feel healthy with my speed, I'm a short, compact fighter. It's like, man, trust me, I don't need that much. As long as I land, I'm going to hurt you, man. You can be 10 pounds heavier than me. It doesn't matter. There's been a lot of guys who have moved up, and it's been the answer.

Jorge Masvidal. Yeah, Masvidal, Calvin. Even Calvin has success. Calvin, I still think if I was, I mean, someone gets in Calvin's ear, like, Kelvin, we got to do this the right way. There's a lot of guys way bigger than you that make 170. I think at 170, he could be a world champion. I really do.

Yeah. He's a scary man when he's in shape and motivated, but he just gets big. Yeah. I think, man, he loves Mary Jane he loves mary jane that too he loves that too yeah i think that's the i think that's what it is yeah calvin is dude he's one of my best friends man like we become super super close and uh he's he's a very gifted very gifted human being man like he's when you see him looks are deceiving. No, he doesn't have enough muscle definition. But, man, the dude's athletic ability, what he could do is counter punch him. It's like it's ridiculous.

He's got one of the best straight left hands in the business. The one he dropped Bisping with, like Jesus. It's a piston, man. Yeah, but I also feel like, and I see that and I always think okay Calvin can make 170 I agree with you Joe but what about that happiness portion you know what I'm saying will he be happy throughout that process

maybe he'll be happy when he lies in bed with that big ass gold belt you know maybe that's what will make you happy I got two of them so I just don't know Joe

and a gold medal and a gold medal you're the youngest guy to ever win a gold medal in the Olympics for wrestling? Yes, in 2008. That's amazing. In 2016,

Kyle Snyder, who, if he does decide to make a transition to the UFC, a guy like Joe, Joe's gonna be in trouble. You think?

Yeah. Yeah, the dude is. Just, the reason why I beat Demetrius, you know, obviously I beat Demetrius, and it was, Joe, I wouldn't be mad.

I'm bringing this up right now. I wouldn't be mad if the judges would have gave it to Demetrius, man. You know what? Because it was a hell of a fight. Very, very good fight. Man, I almost had him. But, you know, the judges, I conveyed enough for the judges to give it to me.

And the reason why I was able to beat him was because I nullified a lot of his things with my wrestling, my inside trips, my takedowns. So I completely dismantled this dude. You know what I mean? I took him out of his rhythm when he was used to kind of catching people and then being able to take people down. So I feel like if a guy like Kyle Snyder gets in the game and he's able to kind of go through the process that I've gone through,

that's the only guy that I could see beating somebody like Jon Jones. How old is he now? He's young. He's, I want to say he's 24, about to be 25. Interesting. And does he have any desire to fight? He's mentioned it. He's mentioned it.

Does he have any experience in stand-up at all? And that's the biggest thing, man. A guy like that, you would have to groom him properly. You don't want to stick a guy like that straight into MMA no put him into boxing for at least a couple years haven't haven't this because this is what i did i boxed for three years i did amateur boxing i competed i mean i was i didn't do any jujitsu none of that because i was in love with the sport of boxing my original goal and this is crazy this is how this is how crazy i think Joe, is I was trying to make the Olympic team right after 2008. For boxing.

For boxing. Wow. Yeah, and the reason why that idea came up, because Deontay Wilder did it. Within, I think it was four years, he was able to make. A year and a half. Was it a year? A year and a half from boxing, wins a bronze medal in the Olympics. Crazy, right?

Dude. I was like, dude, if that dude could do it, give me a few years. When he told me that, I'm like, that is one of the craziest stories I've ever heard in my life. Ridiculous. I mean, but also extremely motivated because he had a very sick daughter and he realized that he couldn't play basketball. He wasn't going to school.

Couldn't play football. He was trying to figure out ways to make money. He was driving a truck. I believe it was for Budweiser. He was driving, he was delivering, delivering things. And he just decided, uh, I'm going to get into boxing, and just had unbelievable God-given talent and just ferocious punching power. His punching power is like nothing I've ever seen before. I mean, you look at Deontay Wilder's knockouts.

They don't even make sense. He sends people flying across the ring. And when he fought Tyson Fury, the first fight, when he dropped him and knocked him down twice, he only weighed 209 pounds. It's crazy. 209 pounds. 209 pounds. That's a heavyweight.

Yeah. That's crazy. And, you know, he's fighting Tyson Fury. He was an enormous heavyweight. And, like, he hits guys, man, like nobody else. What Tyson had over him, though, that he he showed the technical side of it in the second fight was his boxing his his understanding of the game is so complex it's so much different whereas dionte has just this ferocious power and he figures out how to put it on you but when you

can knock out a guy like luis ortiz with a fucking right hand to the forehead yeah he he looked like gold medalist right ortiz yeah and a fucking elite boxer i mean but he blop he hit him on the forehead and ortiz's just his legs went out and you see him going what the fuck just happened forehead who punches that hard dionte's just got crazy crazy power but fact remains he did it after a year and a half and he won a bronze medal in the Olympics, which is just spectacular. Yeah, it's nuts, man. So that's where the original goal came from. But I just saw it just wasn't realistic for me at that time, especially at my weight class.

These dudes have been doing this since they were four years old. There's a different speed. And I was sparring with a lot of these guys. I'm like, damn, man, this is like, it's nuts, man. It's nuts when you're at the lower weight because now you're dealing with not just, in heavyweight, you can somewhat get away with it because if you might be faster, more athletic. Right. But at the lower weight classes, man, there is speed.

You know, you got the dudes from Philadelphia, from California, like all these Mexicans, blacks, whites that are just like, hey, man. They've been doing it forever. This is a different sport, man. And I've been humbled before. I feel like boxing in particular is one of those sports that's very difficult to learn properly as you get older. There's something about muscle memory and your body being ingrained, like developed to move a certain way and to strike a certain way and to be able to react on openings, like instinctually. and to strike a certain way, and to be able to react on openings, like, instinctually.

It's almost like once you hit, like, 25, 26 years old, and you start then, like, ooh, it's real hard to ever get to an elite level. Yeah, your body starts to change, and that happened to me. And it's crazy, and it's ironic, Joe. It's like even my UFC debut, like, think about this. Like, I didn't make weight, and I'll never forget it. I was with my brother. He's actually back here, too, with my brother Alonzo. And I remember, you know, I didn't make weight. I't make the weight man i was just doing too much you're talking about by the time you get 25 like you hit the nail on the head because that's when i first started struggling to make weight and i

didn't make weight at that time and i remember i was just gonna get on a flight and just disappear and never freaking see and never look back man just retire yeah this is crazy joe this is crazy and my brother my brother was you know thank god for him my brother alonzo and he's like you need to be a man and you gotta go and talk to sean shelby and let him tell him thank you and let him know that you're retired man and i was man it took everything in my heart because i was so embarrassed joe this was this is when tj fought uh when he was supposed to fight brow i think the second time and uh and this is when he fought joe soda so i was on that i was supposed to be on that card i was supposed to fight uh scott jorgensen and i went down there didn't make the weight and i'll never forget i was dehydrated i was i was i couldn't even have

tears to cry i'm also dehydrated then i went up to uh to sean sean was like sean thank you man but i'm just i no longer want to do this sport man i'm did you back out of that fight i my body just wasn't reacting man like i wasn't doing well like my lip i remember cutting cutting way that's probably one of my worst weight cuts ever it was i had a cold lip like i started vomiting like all the fluid that i had in my body. Just stupid. I was doing 16 pounds, Joe. I was doing 16 pounds like the day of, pretty much the day of weigh-ins. Wow.

Like something stupid. And the only reason why I was doing something like that was because I felt when you come from the sport of wrestling, like to me, making weight and doing everything that the MMA fighters were doing, I was like, man, these dudes are spoiled these dudes get 24 these dudes get close to about 30 hours before they fight I says man that's that's a lot of recovery time so this is this is this is how stupid this is the way I saw it and again the age caught up to me I would do the six I would do the 16 pounds I would murder myself I would really hurt myself make the weight and then balloon back up. But there came a point by the time I turned 25, 26, that my body

just started to shut down on me. And I just wasn't doing it right. And that finally kicked me in the ass. So imagine that. UFC debut and I told Sean Shelby, dude, I'm done. I ain't never fighting again. But let me ask you this. So was your thought process that because of the fact that these MMA guys get more time to recover,

it's not like they have to weigh in the day of the wrestling match. They're weighing in the day before the fight in the daytime. They don't have to fight. And then eventually it became in the morning, right? So you have even more time. And then they didn't have to fight until the next day at night. So you were like, I'm going to be heavier. I'm going to come in bigger with a bigger advantage.

Is that the idea? Yeah, I think so. And now looking at it now, it's just, it's dumb, dude. It's like you're, it's better to feel good than to feel bigger. Being bigger is, Marlon was bigger than me. You know, a lot of these dudes were bigger than me, but it didn't. Dominic was bigger than you. Domin know a lot of these dudes Were bigger than me But it didn't Dominic was bigger than you Dominic too

Yeah Even TJ Even TJ When we did make flyweights Somehow he I was 146 So imagine that I made 125 pounds

124 pounds TJ made the weight right Did he make the weight Yeah he made the weight And he was He was 24 too I ballooned up to 146 pounds TJ ballooned up to 150 pounds.

Dude, he looked worse cutting weight. He looked worse showing up for the weigh-ins than I've ever seen anybody since Travis Luter. When Travis Luter missed weight against Anderson Silva. Travis Luter missed weight against Anderson Silva. I'll never forget this because I saw him when he missed the weight. Then I saw him. I was backstage while he was trying to continue to cut because they gave him time to make weight. And he couldn't lift his legs up to walk to the scale.

He was shuffling, like shuffling towards the scale. His lips were all cracked. They're all sucked in. His face was sucked in. He was literally on death's door. Like you could see it. He was on. He was dying.

If that guy was like released from a prison Like an overseas prison. I'm like, oh my god. They were torturing him there. He's about to die I got never seen a guy look so bad. He looked so fucking bad and People forgot about Travis Luthor Travis Luthor was a beast man He was he had some of the best jujitsu that the anybody had ever seen in the octagon up to that point everybody he fought he submitted he was so fucking good but he what for whatever reason when he had that big fight with anderson silva he just couldn't keep it together and i believe he had anderson silva down at one point in time in that fight too then anderson silva caught him in a triangle and elbowed him off of his back. And I believe that's how the fight got stopped.

But Travis was the worst I've ever seen for someone just about to make weight, someone struggling to make weight. Yeah, but even you think about guys like that, guys that could have potentially become a world champion. You know what I mean? So what happens when somebody loses? What are the stages, the emotions when somebody loses? You know what i mean so what happens when somebody loses man what are the stages the emotions when somebody loses you know what i'm saying it's like there's a recovery process off of when people lose and you know i hate to say this but i'll bring up

i'll bring up marlon marias again you know because i feel like i gave the blueprint if you watch me fight him then you watch Aldo fight him. These guys, when they lose, they go through a certain psychology thing. And you can see them as a fighter. Every time I do fight, I always look at their demeanor. I always pay attention to their demeanor. From the first round to the second round to the third. As far as it goes.

And I've noticed that Marlon's demeanor was was changing i noticed that in my fights when people's demeanor changes like that's to me that's that that's a breaking point that the mind has so i was able to see that with marlin then after that what did you see you saw that he was slowing down i saw he was i saw he was slowing down his your his face starts to slouch his shoulders start to drop and then uh and then that when I, you really can't see in the video, but that's when I started talking to him. I'm like, all right, man, you ready? Let's go.

Bring it. Give it to me. You know, this is during the fight. Was he talking back? No, he wasn't. He wasn't. And that's another reason is because they're so tired, man, that they just don't have any energy.

Even McGregor, people like that. But what I'm trying to get to is guys that lose, if you don't recover from your defeat, from your loss, if you don't get therapy, if you don't understand the reasons why you lost, man, you're screwed, man. Therapy. Therapy.

Have you gotten that? Yeah, yeah. But for me, it was more like a realization when the first time I lost to Demetrius Johnson and getting knocked out in two minutes and 36 seconds, man. It's like, to me, the was more like a realization when the first time I lost to Demetrius Johnson and getting knocked out in 2 minutes and 36 seconds. To me, the worst thing that could happen to a fighter and the worst scenario that something can happen to somebody and get stopped is getting kneed to the body. You're conscious, Joe. You're conscious and he's kneed you from left to right.

And then your eyes are open and you've had enough. And then you see Big John McCarthy waving his hands and you're knowing that he's you've had enough and then you see big john mccarthy waving his hands and you're knowing that he's making the right call but you're still conscious you still want to go but you can't right your body shut off in front of 20 000 people you know with joe rogan commentating i mean it's it's miserable and it's terrible but it's a certain therapy it's a certain acceptance that you got to go through in order for you to come out of that So what did you do afterwards? I?

Let go of coaches man. Let go of coaches. I started traveling the world. I mean I went to Asia I went to what you do in Asia. I went out to Singapore. I want to evolve I spent about a month out there Oh, yeah Just to train just to train just to go find like the best minds of mixed martial arts and just of basis just to train just to go find like the best minds of mixed martial arts and just of basis too i went out to uh you know to holland for a month i would go out to brazil and just what'd you do in holland and holland i i i trained out with i trained with paula moth

he's he's he's andy sours coach oh wow yeah so i was with them and just training with them and just just humbling yourself i I guess I could say. And obviously throughout this whole time, it's like, man, I was on a quest because I still had Demetrius Johnson. Like, I wasn't going to retire from the sport without me giving him a fair shake. So I knew that it had something to do not just with the body but with the mind. It's almost like you got to come out of this, man. Like, almost like you can call it a mistake or whatnot but the reality is you lost man there's holes in your games so i always

tell people like don't face it i'm sorry don't fake it till you make it i don't like that you have to face this shit once you face it this is when you start to create man freaking overflowing success did you know like when you fought him, and first of all, you fought the best version of Demetrius Johnson ever. The guy to this day, I think, is the best example of a mixed martial artist I've ever seen. Oh, yeah. I think Demetrius in his prime, he was so fucking good, man.

He was so fast, and he was so technical, and he made such good decisions. His footwork, his movement, like, everything was so technical, and he made such good decisions. His footwork, his movement, everything was so precise. Did you say, okay, I see the gap. I see these holes, and I know where he hit me. I know where there was mistakes made. I got to tighten those up. How do I do that? Yeah, Demetrius was so good everywhere, even in the wrestling.

I can even tell you as an Olympic athlete, even in the wrestling, his timing was really good. So I don't even think it was so much Demetrius Johnson. Obviously, it was a distance game, but it comes down to like such, when you fight a guy like that, it comes down to such the minor details, man. And I think the minor detail for me was composure. And I remember right before I fought the dude, I noticed that my corner, my team,

that they were extremely nervous, Joe. Like my team, dude, you imagine fighting somebody like Demetrius Johnson and your coach is not having faith in you? And I'm like, what the fuck? I'm like, shit, man, are you kidding me? Well, he was a ghost back then. Demetrius was a ghost. I mean, he wasn't

there for you. He would be swinging at air. He was just off to the side. Then he was kneeing you in the body and punching you in the face and kicking your leg on the way out. We should even say in the second fight, the fight that you won, he got you with that low calf kick and your leg went numb. Yeah, he hit the

peroneal nerve, which numbs all the nerves to your feet. So it sleeps it. Then when you try to lay your foot down like if your foot's still awake so i even sprained it in the first round but this is the mind power that i had joel it was a survival run as you say i went back to the corner and i thought to myself this is this is this is how crazy i'm i was like hey i just thought to myself man how crazy is this gonna be when I beat this dude? Like I survived that first run.

I says, man, this is going to make my story, whatever I desired in my life that much better because I went through adversity with this fucking dude again. Yeah. But just to get back to. It's a great attitude right there. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's a champion's mind. And even before. So I'm getting ready to walk out.

I'm getting ready to fight Demetrius Johnson. And I noticed my team, like, they're still kind of, like, you know, grabbing their fingers. You know, I'm pacing back and forth. And about a few hours before we went out to the arena, I talked to my team and I sat them here and I've been like, and I sat my whole team down. It's just like almost like a dad.

And I'm like, listen, man, I says, I need you guys to trust me and have faith in me. The key plan to being this dude, like I know this is the greatest of all time, but I know what I've done in wrestling. I can replicate that what I've done in mixed martial arts, man. The only thing I'm going to ask from you guys is for you guys to be composed,

for you guys to be composed, man. Don't over yell, stay calm. Like whatever happens in a fight, man, I just need you guys to bear with me and have faith in me. Because I'm going to. You're going to coach your coaches. Yeah, in some way, man. And it's crazy to say that. So then right when I'm getting ready, check this out, just right when I'm getting ready to walk out, you know, right before I walk out first.

Because I was going to walk out and then Demetrius. And I still noticed my coach was still a little nervous. And I looked at him. I says, hey, guys, remember composure, man, composure. Like, I was so ready for this, dude. So then I go in there, I get kicked in the first 30 seconds. Dude, my leg starts to wobble. And so forth, you know, it was a survival round.

I allow him to win, whatever. I think he won. I think he won the first. I won the second. He won the third. And then I believe I won the fourth and I won the fifth. And then after this whole thing check this out joe he uh um dimitri johnson was on ariel hawani and then ariel hawani asked him he's like hey dimitri is this one last question he was like what's one thing that surprised you about henry and dimitri johnson said well i knew

he was gonna be fast i knew he was strong But there's one thing that really did surprise me with Henry. It was the fact that he was so relaxed. You know? So it's these tactical things. And everybody that you fight is completely different. You know, you can have a certain word that you can put up here. But I knew that being composed and relaxed and not overreacting to Demetrius Johnson, that that would win me the fight for this fight.

And there's a lot more to it. It was me knowing when to fight and knowing when to compete. It's me being a little theatrical, like bumping my fists, like conveying the judges. Those little things that you learn as a veteran of competition, that you can even convey the judges. So there's even acting going on, Joe. Now, I'm telling you guys all my secrets here,

but in reality there is, man. I'm just a winner. my secrets here, but in reality, there is, man. I'm just a winner. The only thing I just know how to do is know how to win. How are you going to step away from this? Come on, Henry! How are you going to do this? Show me the money! I'm torn.

Like I said in the beginning, man, I feel both ways. I'm happy when a fighter gets out on top of the game like you. One of my favorite boxing stories of all time is Marvin Hagler. You know why? Because he fought Sugar Ray Leonard. I think he got robbed to this day.

I think he won the decision. They gave it to Sugar Ray, and then he backed away. That's sage. What you got here? You smoking this, Joe? No, bro. No, you light it up to kill the demons in the room. This Native American lady gave me this.

She came in to talk to us about it. I got in this long kick of reading about Native American history. They actually, a lot of them refer to themselves as American Indians. And then this lady came in and educated me on a lot of the issues and brought me some sage to clear out all the bad spirits. Yeah, no, I believe in a lot. I believe in a lot of the issues and brought me some sage to clear out all the bad spirits. Yeah, no, I believe in a lot of these rituals. Actually, not too long ago, I was actually with Uncle Mike. Yeah, you told me that.

With Mike Tyson and— I'm getting rid of demons right now, bro. Demons, be gone. Don't start shaking back there, man. No, we'll be all right. Jamie's no demon. You never know. Yeah, but I was able to, because, you know, as you know, Mike, Mike has always talked about the toad.

Yes. And I believe you've done the toad, too. Yeah, what the toad is, what you're referring to is 5-methoxydimethyltryptamine that's excreted by the toad's skin. It's excreted by the toad's skin. They take this type of toad. I forget the name of the toad. But they get it excited and excrete this stuff from its skin onto glass. And then they leave that glass out in the sun.

And it dries. That excretion dries. And then you scrape it up with a razor blade. And then you smoke that stuff. Or you could just get a synthetic version of it. Colorado River Toad that's what it is sonoran desert toad sonoran yeah and uh you can find the center of the universe through the excretions of this oh my god it's a trip joe it's a trip so anyways anything before this before you did this have you had any experiences with psychedelics yeah I've done like

I've you know I've done mushrooms and obviously high smoke which I don't know where all the Mary Jane is it's right here bro

you want some come on you're retired yeah why not man come on Jeff Nowitzki leave him alone Nowitzki actually wanted everybody to be able to

he's one of the first guys to say it's nonsense it's not a performance enhancer. Although with Nick Diaz, I think it might be. Yeah. I think with Nick Diaz, it might actually be a performance enhancer. I really think so, man. When he fought Gomi, they said he had to have gotten high.

He had so much weed in his system when they tested him that he had to have gotten high right before the fight. Yeah. Light that up joe you puff puff pass or of course so i'm going to share my story with you joe and i want you to share yours with me okay what type of leaf is this well that's tobacco on the outside, so it's a blunt. And then inside, it's the weed. I get this from Speedweed.

Shout out to my man, Gino. Gino Gentile. Anyway, so check this out. You imagine doing the toe with somebody like Mike? I get high with Mike, and I get nervous. I'm nervous when I meet him. He was one of my heroes. When I was a kid, Mike Tyson was the fucking man.

I mean, in a way that it's hard for people to convey today, to understand what a cultural figure Mike Tyson was in like 1986. It's hard to convey. No one's going to understand. Youngest ever heavyweight champion. Knocks out Trevor Burbick when he's 20 years old yeah he was the same guy that beat ali right trevor burbick beat ali late in his career when it was real sad it was a real sad fight it was a real sad fight but it's touching remember when ali went in the ring and gave gave mike like a little pet

talk yeah you know and then? And then Mike went out there and knocked that dude out in the first round. Yeah, yeah. Priceless. Yeah, Muhammad Ali's like, fuck this dude up for him, will you? Yeah, yeah. But anyways, to get back to that, Joe,

so, you know, so I've actually been shadowing Mike for like, Mike Tyson for like the last, I'm good friends with his manager, Rob Hickman. And just the stuff that they're doing at Tyson Ranch, man, it's pretty cool, man. Yeah, it's really cool, right? Yeah, they're bringing medicine to the world.

So Mike, I've been on his podcast. He's always talked about the toad. I was like, all right. So I became good friends with him. I call him Uncle Mike, man, because he schools me a lot. Every time he sees me, he'll compliment me, but then he'll school me at the same time. So he always talked about the toad.

I'm just like, well, let's do it the same time. So he always talked about the Torah. I'm just like, well, let's do it then, Mike. Let's do it, Uncle Mike. So he's like, man, dude, you sure you want? I'm like, yeah, man, you've been talking about it for a minute. So we go out. They have this whole real nice set up with rituals and whatnot. And we go out to Antigua, which is an island off the Caribbean. We have a, I forget what they're called, the person that-

Shaman? Yeah, shaman, I'm sorry. And he's out there, and Mike goes first. So imagine this, Mike Tyson does it. Mike Tyson, he's doing it. He's going a bit crazy, man, because a lot of what that does is it brings out a lot of your, as you say, you open up the stage, a lot of your demons. A lot of things that you've probably been holding on to for a minute so i'm seeing i'm seeing mike

over here twist and turning and kind of you know talk about a lot of i don't want to share that stuff but you know talk about a lot a lot of his past man that's me as you said he's an idol he's a legend you know that's the way i look at mike too i'm over here hearing i'm just i'm almost like tripping out but at the same time intrigued you know because so then i go up and i do it and uh man it took me to uh especially out of retirement here man like i i would i almost kind of somewhat wanted answers i was hoping that it would give me okay man this is like the path and whatnot and uh it took me it took me to like it took me to my mom's like your mom's like first love man you know and it showed me like in a story almost like in a movie you know how i was born how my mom had me how uh how by the time i was eight years old like i had

my sister so i was no longer the youngest how my mom kind of like you know in all fairness kind of somewhat pushed to the side leaving home at the age of 17 and and substituting my mom's love for self-fulfillment wrestling uh mixed martial arts and it brought me back to a little kid when i was uh maybe four or five when i would cry to my mom because i remember as a kid we would go uh we would go from la to new mexico like in greyhounds and i remember stopping at mcdonald's and things like that but to me you know as a kid you don't know you're poor but what that did is that brought me back to the person that created me that brought me back to my mom's love man so it like it like resurrected something in me and i was crying i was asking for like forgiveness i was speaking

in spanish i'm not pardoning me like mom forgive me wow it was something uh it was something scary in some ways because it does it takes you out of your your body like it's it's almost like you're in judgment day and you're the one that's being convicted and you're the judge too and it's telling you but it's giving you this certain peace it's like you're so dead that you're the judge too and it's telling you but it's giving you this certain peace it's like you're so dead that you're alive whoa it's a trip joe i don't know which ones you had but this is what i can share what i can experience like it was it was cool man because i was able to do with special people i did it with kelvin like we all did like it was it was already formally planning on my brother back there my mentor probably pissed at me because they look out for me a lot.

But, man, it was something that, you know, as an adult, you know, you have the rights to make these decisions and share if it's good. And I felt like the toad was probably one of the best things that's happened to me. Like, honestly, because it makes you realize and reflect on what truly matters. I think there's a fear of it just because it's illegal. I really think that's it. And it should be respected. It's very dangerous in that sense. Not that it could do harm to you physically, if it's the real deal.

It's not going to do harm to you physically. Your body has it in it. Your body knows what to do with it. It's one of the reasons why it's such a quick trip. Your body knows how to bring that stuff back to baseline very quickly.'s why it's only like a 15 minute trip yeah um but it's not it's not bad for you all the time i think it's like many it's a really powerful thing that's it's got to be respected it could fuck you up if you're not ready if you have some distorted versions of the world that you're operating under for me one of the things that made me feel like right away,

one of the first things was realizing how much of like the way I talk about things is like calculated. I was like, I was trying to figure out like I would say things in a way that I wanted people to say, ooh, he phrased that cool. Like I would, I would try hard to impress people with the way I was saying things. And I was realizing that as I was trying to describe the trip after it was over, I was like,

that's interesting. Like, so that probably leads to a disconnect between me and someone who's listening because it's not a hundred percent what's going on in my head. It's at least a little bit showmanship and bullshit. And it made me realize that in that moment, and I think it probably made me a better everything. Probably made me a better comedian.

Probably made me a better podcaster. Also, it's been a minute. When did you do this for the first time? The first time I did it was early 2000s. So I guess we're looking at like 2002-ish, somewhere around then. Yeah. That was like the first time I did it. Last time I did it was about two years ago.

But the last time I did it, I did the other kind, the NN dimethyltryptamine. Actually, maybe a little less than two years ago. A little less than two years ago. It was NN dimethyltryptamine, which is, um, that's the different version. That's the version of it. That's in ayahuasca. That's the version of it. There's a bunch of different snuffs and different ways that people try to, uh, to get that stuff into their system. But smoking it is the quickest smoking. It gets you free, you vaporize it and it gets you right to the center of the universe

immediately and um all those things you know i think man one of the cool things about life like what you're talking about in your journey your journey uh as a as a man your journey as a champion your journey to become better and to to show what you're capable of this all of this is because no one gets it right you don't just get it right like you fuck it up and you try to do better and you you fail and then you figure out what went wrong and you you just constantly analyze whatever you're doing and obsess on it and you can become better at that thing. And through that, you can understand that you can be better at anything. And I think when you, any kind of psychedelic where you have an opportunity to look at yourself, just really look at yourself accurately, you're not going to like it, but it's going to give you great

benefit because it's going to give you, you're going to be able to see yourself honestly and see whatever those flaws, don't get mad that you have all these flaws, just fix them. Just fix them. Do your best to fix them. And you're not going to get it right because ego is still going to come creeping back in your life and ego is still going to hold onto your legs and drag you down while you're trying to run. You know? That's what it is. Ego's like hanging on your ankles while you're trying to run.

Like, come on, stay the same. But you can't stay the same and get better. The way you get better is to relax and to realize that, you know, all your fuck-ups, all the fails, that's not you. Just because you lost a match doesn't mean you're a loser.

You just lost. You should be happy that you got this opportunity to feel terrible because through that opportunity to feel terrible, that's where all the growth comes from. If you can survive it. Some people can't survive it, right? We all know those guys that were really good in the gym and they had like one or two matches or one or two fights

and they just couldn't handle the pressure for whatever reason they couldn't handle the the things that went wrong and they just didn't want to do it anymore but they could have been like a world beater you know you everyone knows that guy yeah right and what is wrong with that guy well that guy's got one aspect of your two-part thing that you were talking about heart inability, right? He's got one aspect. He's got the ability But it's this this he's got a missing part and he doesn't want to look at it because if he wanted to look at it He would concentrate entirely on that and he would get better at that but it's hard. Yeah, it's hard to look at yourself Psychedelics let you look at yourself like hey stupid. Look at you the last time i did dmt there was a a string of jokers like jesters with the bells on dancing in front of me going like this you

just openly mocking me and i was like oh that must be what i need i must need that i'm like that's good that's good to see yeah it's that it. Yeah, it's definitely an ego check, man. Big time. Dissolves it. Man, like with Mike, he loves the dude. Yeah. He owes it to the tone. You know what I'm saying? That said that he said that's been a big reason why he's changed his life.

Mike wasn't doing so well until he tried this. He talks about it all the time on his podcast. It gives you an opportunity to shift it's it's hailed drug addicts i mean drug addicts have gone from doing all kinds of crazy where they try their toe and they completely just left everything guys that they left like almost like a dead man walking to hey he's alive again he's here with us yeah i think a lot of diseases of addiction are diseases of despair, right? It's like disease of the mind and wanting to squash those demons and drown them out.

The anxiety, the fear, the depression, just the terrible feelings you have about who you are. Maybe you're homeless. Maybe your life's falling apart. But you're alive right now, and you can't handle it. You can't handle where you're at. You can't handle who you are. You can't handle what people have done to you. So you just throw drugs in there.

Throw drugs in there. And something like DMT or, you know, there's a bunch of different sort of psychedelics that can do it. For a lot of people, it's Ibogaine. Ibogaine is a big one for drug addicts. People have real issues with opiates. Ibogaine knocks it out of the park with those people. It cures a giant number. See if you can Google the percentage of people who are cured of addictions by ibogaine.

Ibogaine is, it comes from the, I've never done this with all due respect and full disclosure. It's, it was, uh, it's from the aboga tree. I believe it's from Africa. And there's something about this drug that just kills all ideas that you have of addiction and rewires your brain. And it's insanely effective, but ruthless. It's like a 24-hour experience. Oh, my God.

Look at this. One doctor reported a 70% to 80% success rate with effective aftercare. He added that when people recovering from meth addiction took Ibogaine but returned to the same environment where they had originally abused meth, there was a 90% relapse rate. That's not good. So that's terrible. So you have to do it and then get out.

Or maybe it's meth. Maybe meth's just super hard to kick. What's the hardest one to kick? I've never fucked with. Eddie Bravo and I were talking about this once. We were both saying this. There's no meth advocates. People are telling you you should take weed.

Bro, weed will calm you down. We will make you more friendly. There's weed evangelists. There's no meth guys. You know what I'm saying? Oh, that's funny. And Ozark, that comes up at the end. She's like, I want to start those treatment centers.

Yes, yes. At the same time. Don't spoiler alert it. I was trying to figure out a second. Yeah, you did a good job. Yeah, that didn't give away too much enough. But goddamn, there's something about

having any sort of a psychedelic experience. It just makes you realize how badly you're fucking up. And for some people, that's enough. The whole reason why they would do a psychedelic if they were addicted also is because they realized they were fucking up and they're looking for some way to change.

You know, those good feelings that you have man like when when you beat dominic cruz and you raise your hands at the end of that fight and you knew it was going to be over you knew it was going to be over you knew you're you're going to go out in history no matter what even if you step away right now i know you say the greatest but i'm just in the fairness of experts in combat you are one of the greatest of all time for sure olympic gold medalist two division world champion that's that's unheard of and you're doing it all in this super technical division both of them 25 and 35 super technical divisions everybody's a wizard and then we saw that this weekend, man. Holy shit. What a weekend for the Bantamweight division, right?

Yeah, it's exciting, man. There's a lot of good people out there. The Resurrection 2 of Cody. Dude, Cody looks so good. He didn't just look so good. He looked so fucking fast. So fast and technical. I mean, it was super impressive.

But so was Aljamain Sterling. Yeah. Aljamain Sterling. Choking out Sanhagen like that and being able to do it in under two minutes, that's crazy. Yeah, that is, man. That sucks. Crazy. And especially the guy who he beat and how he beat it.

Dude. Sanhagen, he's- Sanhagen's a beast. Yeah, he's the real deal, man. That was the fight that I was thinking on the card was going to be the most difficult to call. Yeah. I was like, who's going to win that one? I don't know.

Because they're both so good. And Sanhagen's just surging. But Aljo just shut it all down, man. The way he did it. Just so intense. Right? Like he had hit some new level. You know?

You know sometimes a fighter will just hit a new level. Now when you think about him, it's probably hard for you because that's your division. Yeah, but, again, his wrestling, I break people down, like, even through their mentality. I study the fighters I'm going to study. I study their mental game, too, and how they do interviews. And I'll give you two examples. I'll give you two examples. And I feel like Aljermaine Sterling is almost the same thing as Demetrius Johnson,

just in the concept of my wrestling. Just because of my wrestling, I feel extremely confident with my hands, and I know he can't take me down. I know he won't take me down. So I know there's a game pack set in place where I can be a little more offensive with somebody like aljame sterling and obviously let's talk to let's talk about sean o'miley i'm just i just want to break these dudes down real quick even somebody like him listen to his interviews and you you study these guys and you see where their mindset is and where their holes are going to be it's like they had asked him you know who do you want to they asked sean o'miley who do you

want to fight next and he's like you know i just want to know, who do you want to, they asked Sean O'Malley, who do you want to fight next? And he's like, you know, I just want to fight, you know, I just want to fight the best strikers. Like he never mentioned about I'll take anybody out. I'll take anybody in the top 10 or 15 or whatever. Because in my opinion, he hasn't really beat somebody that's like, okay, man, you're the real deal. Even though he did beat Weiland and he was a contender, but it's been a long time. And I hear. He's a young kid that's learning the sport while we're watching him on the ufc that's what's crazy about him i mean you want you go back to dana white's contender show and he was

looser wilder you know fun to watch but not nearly as sharp like now he's he's on a completely different level knocking out wineland like that faking the uppercut and then just following over the top of the straight right hand and catching him slipping i mean that was that was fantastic but that's that's the point that i'm trying to get to is it's it's it's a striking game for him right now you know what i'm saying like there is a whole nother aspect and that's called wrestling and jiu-jitsu and that phone i've heard he's he has developed pretty good jiu-jitsu but there's that other art that i want to see when you're really good testing, you're taking it to deep waters, then I'll see your real colors.

Then I'll be like, okay, man, you are ready to take on anybody in the top five. I'm going to give you a good example of that. Yair Rodriguez, when he fought Frankie Edgar. That was a good example of that. Frankie Edgar was just, that wrestling was too strong. That ground and pound was too strong. He couldn't keep him off him. He just couldn't do anything about it.

And that was a great example that because Yair was this super flashy kicker. I mean, Yair to me has some of the best kicks I've ever seen inside the octagon. Wild, flashy shit. Remember when he threw that, he threw against BJ, he hit him with a 360 roundhouse kick to the face?

Do you remember that? Bro, that's crazy shit to pull off in a fight. 360 roundhouse kicked him in the face. Yair was a beast, and everybody was really thinking he's on a short path to the title. But the big hole was that wrestling. It was exposed by how elite Frankie is and how nasty Frankie's ground-and-pound is it was a major beat down you know and that's one of those fights where you watch a guy and you go

this guy it's it's all about styles because it's all about you know whether you give you if he found someone that played his game, like, oh, shit, he's good at that game. But what Frankie did is just completely impose his game, just drag him down and beat him up. And then we don't know what would happen with O'Malley when it comes to that. But I know who he is as a person. And he's working. He's working on everything. That kid is he's focused as fuck.

He keeps getting better and better and better, like in a trippy way. Like when you saw him come back after two years off, you know, two years dealing with a bunch of bullshit. I forget what he was suspended for. I don't remember what it was. Was it, was it a, was it marijuana? That doesn't make sense. Tainted supplements?

Yeah, something in protein or something like that. Yeah. Anyway, I'm interested. Yeah. I'm interested. And it's making the Bantamweight division with guys like that, anyway i'm interested yeah and it is and it's and it's making the bannerwood division with guys like that it's making it exciting oh it's so exciting first of all we didn't even talk well you got pewter yan versus jose aldo for your title does it still feel like yours i let it go joe i let it go honestly honestly i let it go man they can they can all kill each other that's how i feel i. I'm so happy. I'm so satisfied.

You look happy. The point is, what a division. Unless you cross me with something here. I don't know what you... No, it's all good, bro. It's all good. I'm really excited about that Jose Aldo, Piotr Jan fight. But it's fascinating to me that they decided to give the fight to Aldo

even though Marais won the decision. That's a real interesting choice, isn't it? Because although I agree with the decision, I think, or excuse me, I agree with Aldo. I think Aldo won that fight. I think it was a really close fight, but I thought Aldo won the fight. But it was close. It was really close. But the fact that the judges gave it to Marlin and then the UFC is like, nah, player, we're going to have Aldo fight Piotr.

And part of it is because Aldo is obviously a huge draw and one of the greatest of all time, particularly greatest featherweights of all time. Well, remember, I'm actually going to change your mind on that. Actually, it's really my fault. It's your fault? Yeah, it's my fault that Jose Aldo is fighting for the belt. Because that's who I was originally supposed to fight with, Dominic. But this whole COVID thing happened. So Aldo was going to fight for the title. And then it's like, you can't do that to him.

So the UFC, you know, they stuck to their word. Oh, that's interesting. Still, though, if I was Marlon. If Eddie was here, we could debate, man. That makes sense. That 100% makes sense. That makes sense. Listen, I'm happy for both fights.

I'd be happy if Marlon fought Piotr Jan for the title, or I'd be happy if Aldo fought him. I'd be happy if Marlon and Aldo fought again. There's great fights in that division now that you've stepped down. Really? For now? The people that I think that should fight for the belt would be Aljamain Sterling and Peter. I'm going to call him Peter, man.

I ain't going to get that authentic. It was Peter for a while. We were supposed to call him Peter. And then they said, no, it's Piotr. Piotr. Piotr. It's like Fedor. You know, Fedor's real name is not Fedor.

It's Fyodor. Yeah. That's so rude. We could have said Fyodor. Yeah. But even somebody like Peter Yoneman like how dangerous is he really yeah he beat Uriah but Uriah has been out for a minute yeah you know besides Uriah who what's another big name that that dude has beaten no well clearly

he's very good there's no doubt about it whether or not he's at your level you don't find out until he fights a guy like you or he fights a guy like aldo that's when we find out what's up okay but we know he's really good you know the way he beat up uriah it's not just that he beat him he beat him up and you know uriah is always going to be a tough out he's a tough guy man he's a super skilled super seasoned guy uriah's been around forever you know he's he's fought so many good guys he knows how to survive and to see peter beat him up like that, it's like, wow. And he's fucking strong, man. He's fucking strong. Like he's got that weirdo Russian strength.

You know? Yeah. He is dangerous. He's got power. He throws knees. He throws off the clinch. Yep. Yep.

Dangerous. He's dangerous. He's technical. When I see a guy like that, it's like he's technical and he has malice. And when someone's technical and they have malice, it's like, that's what I have. You know what I'm saying? And I can recognize that. Yeah.

Malice is a good way of putting it. What Mike Tyson would call bad intentions. Yeah. Yeah. He's got it. So, like, the division's never been more exciting. You know? And there's still guys like Jimmy Rivera, still a dangerous, dangerous fighter.

There's like a- That's what I'm saying, Joe. You think they'll- It's great division. You think they'll miss me? They're going to miss you anyway, man. Come on. They're going to miss you. They hated the cringe. No, no, no. Listen, you did a great job with all that cringey shit. You made people pay attention. I thought it was genius. Knowing you, who you really are, seeing this character that you're doing. Did I get you out? Yeah, I was laughing hard, man. Were you ready for me to become the intergender world champ when you're telling valentina to bend the knee i was crying i was crying like that is so funny can we post some pictures of that the intergender world champ that is hilarious what made you decide just like look

i need something i need something to market myself. No, it was actually. No, I wasn't even. Oh, my God. This is kind of a. It's funny, but it's somebody high profile that dared me to. I'm like, dude, I can't do that. He challenged me so much. He's like, I dare you.

You know, I was like, oh, all right. So I ended up doing the video. And then I was like, God, dude, what am I doing? Oh, that's hilarious. But look at what it's done, Joe. I saved an entire division, man, because Daniel White wanted to cut its neck off, and he told me that. There's something about what you did that's like, this is what Conor did.

This is what Chael Sonnen was probably the best at it, the original. Chael Sonnen is the original pro wrestling style shit talker in MMA that really made people hyped up about fights. I mean, you got to give credit to Chael because before Chael, there was, you know, I'm going to fuck him up. I'm going to kick his ass. People always talk shit, but they never talk shit with an entertainer's flair the way Chael did. I mean, even though you kind of knew that Chael was in over his head in some of those fights, like with Jon Jones. I had a real deep feeling he was in over his head with Anderson Silva in the second fight in particular. I just had a feeling he was in over his head, but he would still talk so much shit.

It was so fun. And it made the fights way bigger. They should all thank him. Thank you for what you said about my mother. Thank you for all that crazy shit you said what you said about my mother thank you thank you for all that crazy shit you said because that that's what really uh sold that fight yeah they all made more money because of him yeah they all uh man and the thing is is what i admire about that now like a guy like kobe obviously connor even ronda i think ronda was more of a persona it was more the fact

that the pressure that comes with that shit like dude that's like a whole nother fight and you have to make sure that you got to live up to your expectations you remember me throwing shit out the bag with the pillow what you think of the pillows though i'm like dude i really gotta be dominic's ass dude i know the pillows with the heads on them and you're kicking the pillows the different guys' heads. But, dude, it was funny. It was funny. It does put extra pressure on you, right? It does. Because if you lose, people are so happy.

But check this out. This is how crazy I am. That pressure, man. I channel that thing. And I almost love it, Joe. It's crazy. I like feeling a little scared. Look at you with the pillows.

Laying in bed with your belts And the pillows with TJ's head And DJ's head It's hilarious The king of cringe Bend the knee So what did your friend That you won't say the person's name Can you say what their name rhymes with?

Man I can't Don't throw them Tell me later But what did they say to you? Like you have to come up with this character? Is that what they said to you? No. I think it was after I beat Demetrius Johnson, I went to the Apex fight.

And I happened to be there randomly. And then obviously Dana was there at the fights. And I pulled him aside. I was like, hey, Dana, how are you? He actually wanted to talk to me. He was like, hey, come to my office. So I ended up going from the fights to his office and we're you know i was in his red ferrari freaking really nice too man and he's like hey bud i just want to let you know that uh

you know that i'm thinking i'm thinking i'm thinking about getting rid of the division or i'm gonna get rid of the division this is what right after i beat demetri johnson man you know what i'm saying like there's there's new blood. And he told me straight up, and I was just like, man, I have to do something, man. Like, if I don't start speaking up, if I don't start being hated, like, my division is going to drown, man. And it's up to me. And I felt like that's something that Demetrius never did. Did he tell you why? It wasn't entertaining.

It was people don't pay attention. I think because Demetrius was so dominant like they don't appreciate true art man like Demetrius was so dominant that he heard a division because there's like

it gets born there has to be a storyline a storyline to people and Demetrius wasn't the most personable dude in the world so then I took that upon myself when he said that I was like well

I'm gonna have to come up with a gimmick you know I was originally originally I was supposed to go up to 135 pounds. Right. And I brought TJ down because if I was going to go up to 135 pounds, they were going to strip me from my belt. It was like, this is the contract.

And that was the original plans for me to go up. But then I decided to come down and keep the division and kind of fight for it. Let's talk about that fight because that was a crazy situation, right? First of all, TJ looked like dead man walking, going to the weigh-ins. Like I said, as bad as anybody I've ever seen besides Travis Luter. I mean, Travis Luter was a dehydration thing. TJ had starved himself down to a skeleton. It was real weird.

And then when you found out that he was taking EPO, and then he said that he was taking EPO because he just didn't have any energy from cutting that weight I don't I don't know man I don't know what the answer my brother and I were talking about that yesterday I'm not sure what it was but I'm just uh I felt sick inside when I found out Joe like it's it's like a sadness that it brings to you because dude it's like yeah we may talk stuff you know to each other whatnot but it doesn't get that personal. Oh, it shouldn't get that personal for somebody to take an EPO, man,

something that, a drug that you just will never get tired of than to fight that dude with these four-ounce gloves. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's a little bit of malice there, man. So I remember that day I called. I talked to my brother and I talked to my mom. I was like, dude, as thick-skinned as we grew up and whatnot, like, this is hurting me, man.

What would you have done if you found out before the fight? If they gave you the option. I felt so good. If they pulled you aside and said, listen, Henry, the fight's going to go on, but we got an issue. It turns out we just got TJ's drug sample back, and he tested positive for EPO. You can still fight him if you want to. We're going to strip him. We're going to, even if he wins, we're going to strip him. We're going to fine him and keep him from fighting for EPO. You can still fight him if you want to. We're going to strip him. Even if he wins, we're going to strip him.

We're going to fine him and keep him from fighting for two years. He's going to get convicted of using this stuff. But you can choose to fight him. Just don't tell anybody. Well, here's my deal, man. Hey, if you're going to ask me a question like that, I got one for you, too. Okay.

But a guy can say, like a guy misses weight by five pounds, he can still fight you. That's a fucking big advantage. He didn't have to cut those extra five? You know how many times guys miss weight and still win? It's big. It's a big number. When guys miss weight and wind up winning the fight, I believe, who was talking about that? One of the commentators, might have been Dominic Cruz.

He was talking about guys missing weight and then winding up winning the fight. Because they have an advantage. They didn't cut the weight. We all know there's a certain point in time where you shouldn't lose any more weight. But we also know there's a dark land where most people don't want to travel through. Where you can make it through. Where you can get to that point where you don't want to do it anymore. You're fucking

dying inside. But you stay in there an extra 20 minutes and you make the weight. Or some people don't. But the guy who doesn't, look, it's bad for your body to cut that much weight. The guy who leaves those extra 5 pounds on his body, that's a big advantage that's big yeah it is but also it is actually it is what's bigger that or epo

epo i imagine man yeah because the man tj was saying how good he felt he never felt so good in his life i'm just like i'm just hearing it from him yeah but also in that fight that's when i felt like the most prepared joe like i felt even till now my career like i'm retiring like i'm really done and that's the best that i've ever felt man against tj dillashaw so i i think to answer that question i think i still would fight him for that reason because i did everything natural and i use science and uh well you you had a really interesting team with you the last time you were here. What are they called? Neuroforce?

Yeah, Neuroforce 1. And, I mean, without having people go back and listen to that podcast, give me this rundown of what they did in terms of, like, your reaction times and all that specific, sports-specific neuro shit they were doing with you. Because it was really, I say neuro shit because I'm a moron. I don't know what the term is. Yeah. But it's fascinating listening to them talk about how

they used real science and data to mark your performance yeah i think everything from like the morning by the time i wake up i have the omega wave and a lot of the credit that i do o2 is out at the uscpi with uh roman uh the the physiologist down there and And it was, you know, I wake up every morning. I use Omega Wave, which tells me like, which gives me my heart rate ability. It kind of gives me my windows. What's it called? Omega Wave? Yeah, Omega Wave.

And this is a chest strap? Yeah, it's a chest that when you wake up, the first thing you do before you brush your teeth or anything is you put this strap on it. And, you know, it's taking levels of like uh of your heart rate so it allows you to let you know according to your rate your heart rate how hard you're able to train that day so it gives it into like you got your windows of trainability like how hard you should go and it kind of measures a lot of your training so i do that every morning

and then obviously i've done testing with them from balance like just body scan dexa scans like a bunch of things and crazy amounts of uh of testing to kind of figure more out of like my biomechanics and things of that matter so i only have about three to four hard workouts like uh a week like i don't do no more than than maybe even three really because it's all according because it's about you understanding your threshold and i think where a lot of fighters don't succeed is they they exert that and then they want to fight that and the next you know what they're on the ground or they're losing so they're not optimizing their performance by giving themselves an ample amount of recovery they're training too hard too often and yes and using a

lot more recovery. Like what I do down there is I do a lot of infrared lighting. I do altitude pod capsules, the technology that they have. Like there's certain headphones that helps, you know, activate like everything in your body. Like it's the new age thing with a lot of like pressure machines and things of that matter. A lot of like doing a lot of mobility exercises.

Like it's crazy how powerful and how strong you become just through doing mobility, man, understanding posture. So, you know, big shout out to my strength coach, Andre Hicks and Kevin Longoria, Kareem Amin and everybody down there because they're revolutionizing, man. I feel like I'm ahead on the curve when it comes to understanding how to do a proper camp for MMA. Where I'm not extremely killing myself. I'm loving the sport through the process like it doesn't always have to be a crazy battle. That's a big revelation for a lot of people. They're hearing this from you and they're like oh shit that's crazy this might literally shift the way people train because so many guys are out there leaving it all in the gym they're so tough and they're trying to condition themselves but there's

a there's a there's like a tipping point where you're working too hard and you're always sore and your body doesn't have a chance to recover and you don't grow you don't get better you just sort of maintain and that's where a lot of guys wind up getting injured as well yeah and a lot of that stuff too it's like when i do my trainings like i revolve all my training around my sparring like my sparring is my most important thing so i almost number my workouts and how numbers that should be that is i'm going to give you an example on monday it could be a it could be a seven and an eight two practices right on monday the next day they're going to be more of like a four and a five or five and a six it all depends on your uh on your max you know what i mean on your uh you know your performance and all the testing that they've done but on wednesday this is where

i got to deliver and this is where i have to give the 10. So this is a sparring day. Yes, it's a sparring day. And there's only one sparring day a week? There's two. So one's technical, and the other one is, all right, man, we have the ref. I got a doctor in there. Literally, man, it's legit. Every time I spar, the music comes out, my opponent's music, my music. I walk out.

Really? I get checked, yeah. Really? Yeah. It's done every time during my coach, Captain Eric Alberison. We've been able to simulate and emulate everything that we're going to do in a fight. Even my training. My training is not me doing jujitsu for two hours and then at night I do boxing.

No, no, no. I'm in there play sparring, seeing where I'm doing good in play sparring, and then adjusting what I saw in play sparring with the coaches individually. And then I'm giving 20 minutes to that, and then I give 20 minutes to my striking with pad work or it could be with the partner. But I'm going the whole time. You see what I'm saying? So I'm collaborating everything together, simulating the fight as much as possible,

being very detailed in my training and then when it comes to sparring that's that's the real deal that's where i have to shine and that's how i show myself how good i'm becoming are you using are you taking notes like how are you keeping track of your progress are you just knowing in your head or are you i know it and i feel it but i also have like a communication with my coaches where they know that I'm extremely honest man I'm not feeling well I need to rest another two three hours before I go train

today guys you know what I'm saying it's a very selfish style training and that's a big advantage I am giving a lot of knowledge here man but this is you know that's who I am and yeah it's it's i i am giving a lot of knowledge here man but this is you know that's who i am and i want to share what i have i think i've never heard anybody break it

down that way particularly the fact that i don't think i've ever heard if i don't ever do it i did i forgot anybody doing that where you have your opponent's walkout music you have your walkout music you have a referee you do the whole thing like a fight i've never heard anybody do that but that makes sense and particularly if you do it at the Apex Center where there's no crowd, it is like doing it in your gym. And this is how we train for Dominic. This last camp that I

had was like the best... This camp that I had with Dominic was like the best fight that... The best fight camp I've ever had, man. The best because I've learned from everything that I've done, man. It's almost like I've built this team like I don't I'm not from a team necessarily but I build this team around me according to every opponent that I fight so everybody's moving and everybody's

mimicking Dominick Cruz and vice versa for TJ for Marlon like it's and these dudes are being compensated dudes are being paid you know what I'm saying so it's like it's a real business. Not just, hey, just go out there and spar them. Try everything that you do. It's like that,

that's, to me, that's, that's like a, that's like a chicken with his head cut off. Like you're not, are you truly improving? Right.

Well, what you're saying, all of it, a hundred percent makes sense. I mean, it's brilliant. Doing it that way is brilliant. And in the process, man, you cut all the bullshit out.

There's things in jiu-jitsu that doesn't work. As a wrestler, which I love, there's things in wrestling that doesn't work. In boxing, the distance is different. You almost have to mimic everything that you do in a very technical sense. So when you do this, are you you wearing normal four ounce gloves the whole deal um no they're more like the sparring gloves like the you know the puffier ones yeah because you don't want to i mean have you fucked with any of those onyx ones yeah yeah with yeah how goddamn good are those those are awesome man those are the best mma gloves i've ever felt once these guys

decide to truly launch and whatnot like i think that company could completely take over. That's what I'm saying. They make the best shit. Dude, he's such a madman about it too. Trevor was on the podcast with Justin describing his process of making those gloves. He got me a pair of them and he let me try on those MMA ones. When you compare them to the UFC ones

side to side, you're like, what? These are crazy good. They're so much better they're so well designed like everything about it man yeah so it's engineered yeah does the padding is better it's better padding it feels better yes no he's a wizard yeah so you're wearing a slightly larger mma glove yeah yeah slightly larger and i get vaseline the the pep talks like i'm saying bye to everybody and you it feels so normal

for me to compete Joe like it's crazy it really does feel like a sparring session that's so genius that you reenacted every week

yeah every week so you get accustomed to it every week and sometimes you're cranking sometimes you're pissed

but that's even part of how you're gonna feel during fight week you know how many times I fight with my coach like it's crazy Eric it's like Captain Eric cause it's like man we're like brothers like he's a coach but he's a

brother but you know what i'm saying right so it simulates the fight yeah it's beautiful that's a genius idea man it really is and so um who's mapping out your training camps like in terms of like when you do strength conditioning when do you it a collaborative effort? It's a collaborative effort. And a lot of it, I have to pay attention to science. So there's things that my coach has to say. There's things that I have to say, but it's truly like the science. So in terms of your recovery? Yeah.

Yeah. And then what should I eat? Like everything's calculated on how hard I'm going to go. So my meals are prepped according to every day how hard I'm going to go. Really? Yeah. So there's times where I'm doing fives where I'm not going to like like when i'm doing a 10 during sparring you know what i'm saying and does this go with in terms of your preparation like your pre-workout meals as well

uh yes so if you know you're gonna spar on wednesday at what time in the afternoon do you spar um sometimes we even simulate the time that we're actually fighting oh okay so not always not always because you don't want to you know right yeah you don't want to always do that um when Um, sometimes we even simulate the time that we're actually fighting. Oh, okay. So you'd be like 9 or 10 o'clock at night, right? Yeah, you don't want to always do that. Um, when would you eat? So if you were going to fight at 8 o'clock at night, when would you eat? Oh my God. But that's, again, a lot of that stuff you would have to say preference, man.

Like personally, I like to have like a big, a big brunch. So 2-ish? Yeah. 2 o'clock in the afternoon-ish? Yeah, about 2 o'clock, 2.30. So, you give yourself like five, six hours. Yeah, because your nerves, like if for some reason, like your nerves, it's hard to digest your food when you're nervous. You know what I'm saying?

When you're anxious to do something. What kind of food do you eat before you fight? Eggs, pancakes. Obviously, I need the carbs and whatnot. I would just eat normal like bacon like i eat pretty clean throughout throughout the whole camp but you don't have like specific pre-fight meals that you know no but i think at that point it's just the psychology side of it you know what i'm saying like i'm gonna eat what what uh the serotonin in my mind

like the happiness in me that what it wants you know what i'm saying because i i'm i'm gonna deserve it when i when i fight that night you know what i'm saying yeah yeah like it's a treat like it it brings happiness to you i couldn't do that man the first time i lost a demetrius i was i eat chicken breasts like right after i beat him and and and veggies like i was super light but i had no fat in me and i got you know i got put out and i i a lot of them and i i owe that you have to have every stone you have to you know turn every stone man because there's a lot of details man it's very complex man and if you can understand the game and on on the recovery on the nutrition on the happiness on the on the preparation on the game planning all that i mean

who so let me ask you this who is this company that puts these meals together they're they're basing it on when you say like yes it depends upon the workout like how are they how are they doing that like they're speaking to the physiologist at your force it's crazy yeah so it's almost like there's a team of a shout out to them to my friends kitchen there's a team of, and shout out to them too, man, France Kitchen. There's a team of, man, maybe 12 people, man. Wow. There's a guy that goes in there every time I fight, and he's monitoring my heart rate every time.

Like he's, hey, slow down, slow down. And he'll tell the coach, and the coaches will tell me. Like it's all, there's a dude in there warming me up before i go train like at my gym like a personal trainer every single day do they give you anything specifically right after you're done training to sort of recovery anything for like replenish glycogen yeah yeah so that's immediately uh what is it you can i get you can every every what is that it's just it's just a that? It's just a protein. Oh, okay. It's just a protein that I take sooner or after. And even the water, man, like alkaline water.

Mm-hmm. So it's all just down to every T is crossed and every I is dotted. It's all down to the science. Yeah, it's fun. It's really interesting. And I think if I have a gift in anything, because I've never seen myself coached, Joe. I think being a coach is i think being a coach is probably the hardest job man because you got to deal with pride and then you and sometimes they

leave you or not but if anyways if there's one thing that i could do and help people with as if i was a coach would be game planning actually putting like a game plan together and understanding and putting a putting a solid team together when did you start doing this thing where you would emulate your opponent's walkout music and your walkout music and the whole deal? Since we fought Demetrius and since I started having success. Actually, since Wilson Hayes. So as soon as I lost to Benavidez, I fought Wilson Hayes and then since there,

and then it got a little more serious when I fought Demetrius, and then so forth, we just got better and better throughout camp. So that was when you decided okay we're gonna make some wholesale changes and this is a big one we're gonna reenact is it your idea to do it that way I had to I had no choice yeah because I mean your idea to introduce the fighter and have you introduced and the whole deal have the walkout music no a lot of that was my coach and then a lot of it's me like all right man well let's take it to another to the next level like put me in the back. Hey, Cejudo up in five.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Right. And I've noticed that since I've done that, Joe, it's been like, dude, I feel like I'm walking out. Why is Cejudo getting so better, dude? It's the comfort of how I feel, man. It's a tactical thing that we developed. Yeah.

You've figured out a way to make it a normal part of your life. Exactly. That's a big thing about fighters returning, right? You've, yeah, you've figured out a way to make it a normal part of your life. Exactly. That's a big thing about fighters returning, right? Taking a long time off and then coming back, it's very difficult because everything feels weird, right? Yeah, I remember they were talking about that with Sugar Ray Leonard. When Sugar Ray Leonard was in the process of making one of his comebacks, one of the things they did is they put together, it might have been for the Hagrid fight,

they put together fights in the gym, like a real fight in the gym so just get used to it like you would fight 12 rounds in the gym yeah i guess it's i guess you go back to it's all it's all just simulating man it's not yeah but but this is the thing the biggest problem that i've seen because i've gone through a lot of coaches now, is getting all the coaches on the same page and getting all the coaches, you know, getting them to commit on science. Is that all your responsibility? Do you have to handle everybody or does Captain Eric handle it? Yeah, Captain does. He does all that. And, you know, not just that, but even like for me, it's like stem cells.

Not just that, but even like for me, it's like stem cells. I'm like, I did stem cells in Colombia with bowel accelerator out in Colombia about six months ago, right after my fight. And man, I felt so good for this. If I used to have a jacked up neck, stem cells, like they did a whole, you know, they did all the scans you could think of, you know, from x-rays to MRIs and whatnot. And, you know, they would pinpoint pinpoint where my body was an ache. And they just started injecting stem cells on me, man, all over my neck. Parts of my body that I've never experienced before. And immediately my neck started like the same, almost the same day, man, my neck started feeling better.

And ever since then, I think three months into it, man, my neck was 100%. I wrestled my whole life. Wow. Keep my neck jacked up. So many people have jacked up necks from wrestling too. Backs, necks, knees and shoulders. That's been a big part of my recovery and using.

Do you remember specifically what kind of stem cells they were using? Did they tell you? Well, it's done in Colombia, so the stem cells are being pulled from a baby's umbilical cord. So then, you know, so I don't necessarily know the full science of it. I guess the basic side of it, but man, I can tell you, my body feels good. Yeah, it's real shit, man. It works. I've had stem cells done on my knee, my shoulder.

I've had a bunch of different things done, injuries. And you've done that here? Yeah, I've done it here. Yeah, I don't know if it's the same level because when I was explaining it to or talking to one of my friends about it, they said, what's the difference between that and what they're doing in Panama? Like Dr. Neil Reardon has a clinic down there in Panama. They send a lot of fighters down there as well.

I think they're allowed to do anything. I mean, they can get buck wild. They can fill you up with stem cells. Like whatever limitations they might have here in America, they have a fat syringe with them. You're fucking, get in there. I don't know. I know i really wish i knew yeah i don't know if this is true joe or maybe you could look it up i don't know if i don't know if even animals i don't know if somebody says something is done with this with the stem cells of an animal of a horse i think what and they're using it on humans well see that would be weird, man, if people started growing, like, horse hair all over their body.

Damn, that's a trip. It didn't happen for two years, and two years later, people start growing hair, weird hair on their chest and shit. I mean, I don't think that's going to happen, but I think along the lines of all this medical experimentation, we're going to get some pretty spectacular results, and some of them are going to be bad. It just makes sense. Someone in some other country is going to take—they probably already have. They've probably taken some chances and mixed a person with a crocodile or something. You don't think they've probably done that in some places?

Right. For sure, right? China? It's crazy what our world is coming to, man. How different it's—these last 10 years, man. How different it's been. These last 10 years, man, how different has it been? You know what I'm saying? These last 10 months, last 10 weeks, things have been crazy.

It's a weird time to be alive. Things are happening very rapidly from the invention of the cell phone to social media to the ability to share videos and for people to get information, for people to find out about world events, for people to get together and try to make change. It's just a different world, man. It's a different world in good ways and in bad ways. It's a different world. People are more disconnected than ever while being more connected than ever.

Yeah. There's a lot of things about this life that are really weird. Do you think our world is getting better? I have hope, man. When I see like yesterday, there was part of the George Floyd protest in downtown LA had filled this. It's a craziest picture,

man. You see the picture of the street filled with people, all nonviolent. So all the looting and all that shit seems to have stopped and now the people that remain seems to be they seem to be dedicated to change in a way that i can't remember anything like this in my life i think this is this has a real this give this man's murder has a real chance of changing the world and changing america for sure i think it really does it has has a chance in further bridging the divide

between people and to get people to look at things in a better way. Like, look how many people got together for this. Look how many people. I mean, it had the real bad parts in the beginning with the looting, but I don't think this is the same people. I think those are people that are broke because COVID kept them locked up in their fucking house for a month at a time without any ability to make any money.

And I think people saw free shit and then everything got wild and it was jumping off and people were smashing windows and a lot of people just stole shit. That's what I think. But I don't think that's the same thing that's happening. I think that's happening along with this protest. But the protest is pretty fucking amazing. When you think that this, in our time, we've never had a moment like this where literally the whole country is getting together and saying things have to change and stop. They're defunding the Minneapolis Police Department, man. What about, so...

Which I don't think is a good idea. Yeah, so I was too young, I guess, so I would ask you for this. The Rodney King shit? Yeah, the Rodney King, yeah. I wasn't here for that. I watched it on TV, but I was in New York. I came here right after the Rodney King shit. But the thing about the Rodney King shit was it was confined to L.A., you know?

People weren't rioting about Rodney King in New York. It was just an L.A. You know, people weren't writing about Rodney King in New York. It was just an L.A. thing. These riots were all over the country, man. I mean, the Freddie. What happened is, what was that guy's name in Baltimore? Freddie Gray. Yeah, that was the last big one. I remember that was about five years ago and when freddie gray

was killed by the cops they went crazy in baltimore and lit everything on fire and smashed everything but it was still just baltimore you know with george floyd it's the whole country yeah now now it's just an excuse to it was it's this is what it is man it's like people are fed up people are pissed yeah but it's also, they're also broke, man. It's not through any fault of their own. They got stuck in this COVID thing like we all did, and they were forced to not be able to work for months and months at a time. And most of them still aren't back at work, right?

So they're broke, and they're fucked, and this is a chance to steal some shit. I don't condone it. I don't condone it. But I saw a lot of what looked like high school kids running out of those things, holding boxes of sneakers. Like, they just were taking advantage of free shit. And, yeah, there are some bad people in there, too. There's some criminals in there, too. There's some people that lit, you know, churches on fire.

There's some people that did some horrible shit. But I think the whole movement is not connected to that. That's just some people that did some shit taking advantage of a moment in time where everything went haywire. But the people that are marching, they're doing it very

peacefully in these enormous groups. I think it's got a real chance of being something that changes the way cops interact with people. It's got a real chance of being something that changes the way cops interact with people. It's got a real chance because it's so big. Yeah, I guess as a fighter, like you don't, you don't, like you ever like rough play with your friends when you're a little kid and then all of a sudden there's like a mosh pit and they next you know you're freaking, you know, you're being suffocated by everybody's weight, like that feeling. These cops, they think sometimes the people that are being arrested, they're fighting them because that's a lot of pressure on the neck or that's a lot of pressure on the stomach and things like that. So they can make the excuse that you're resisting arrest.

But look, everyone's going to resist when you put your fucking shin on their neck. Yeah. That's crazy. That's torture. When you put your fucking shin on their neck yeah, you know that's crazy That's torture and also the way the guy was lying down when he had a shin on his neck He was lying with his neck against like this drain So this is like this like cement drain area and his neck is right there So his shin is on the top of his neck and then the drain area is the bottom. It's fucking horrible

It's horrible to watch man. It's like you're watching a guy getting tortured to death Like something has to be done. Now, I don't think it's defund the police. I think it's definitely get rid of anybody like that guy. And it's retrain them. Train them where they realize that there's a chance to do this correctly. You have an amazing job. Being a police officer is incredible responsibility.

And it takes an incredibly powerful person to do it and not abuse the power that you have. Because people have a tendency when someone says, why do I have to do that? Because I fucking told you. I'm the cops. That's what they're doing when they have that kind of power. They just go to it right away. You need exceptional people, and there's a lot of people that aren't exceptional. And some of those become cops.

And you see these non-exceptional people who are cops, who abuse the fuck out of the power that they've been given. That's the problem. I don't think the problem is that we don't need cops. Like, Jesus Christ, if someone's breaking into your house, you want to be able to call the cops. If you've got a real problem in your life and, you know, there's something going wrong, you want to be able to call the cops. But the cops have to have a better relationship with the people in their communities.

Yeah, man. I think out of all this craziness going on, I think at the end, I think people are starting to unite. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Even through this whole COVID stuff, not so much what happened with, like, I think it's made people more aware, man, that anything can come and go. You know what I'm saying?

Like, look at, it was a revelation for me. Look at Kobe Bryant's situation, man. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, even the most wealthy of people could die because of a mistake in a helicopter. You know, nothing's gonna save you so you don't get saved i mean the most beloved of people it doesn't matter you slam into a mountain you slam into a mountain yeah yeah but i think through this whole tragedy i think i think everybody will be uh would be better off man like i think we'll be better off that's the hope well

yeah i guess that's the hope we just need's the hope. We need more good days. You know? Like you have a good day and then a bad day and then another bad day and then another bad day and another bad day and a bad week and a bad month. That's a lot of people right now. And then the riots broke out. And now the riots are over.

The looting seems to have stopped. The National Guard's moving back out. Let's hope people keep it peaceful. And if people keep it peaceful, it really could change the world. It really could. Yeah. Let's hope on that, man. Let's hope.

So what do you do now, Henry Cejudo? Say if you do decide to not fight again. You're like, I'm done. I did what I had to do. I'm triple C. Two world titles and an Olympic gold medalist. My name is cemented in the history books. That's who you are.

I mean, that's legit. I think I programmed Joe to talk like that. You see what I'm saying? That's true. You see my gimmick work. It worked. I'm an analyst. If I look at you completely objectively, even if I didn't know you and you're a great guy, and I always enjoy talking to you, but if I didn't know you, I'd be like,

the motherfucker, like name someone who's done more. Name someone who won two world titles and a fucking gold medal in the Olympics and wrestling and did it all in the most technical of divisions. Yeah. Like I said, so like this is like, I'm not saying I'm the best fighter in the world because I'm not, man.

There's, I would even put Demetrius Johnson like in front of me. I would put a lot of people in front of me. You know'm saying even though i do have a window for him um but i wasn't the best wrestler in the like i wasn't like the the greatest in the in wrestling even though i was an olympic champion like i fall into a very secluded group but i'm one of a lot you know but i think if when you collaborate both of my accolades that i've done in sports that's where the greatest combat athlete of all time comes in. And it's a gimmick, and I say it a lot, but part of the gimmick is I am telling the truth.

You know what I'm saying? Whether you think it's a gimmick or not, it's in the conversation. You're in the conversation. So maybe in the next 20 years, they'll— It's a conversation. I don't know. There's a lot of people that think it should be GSP, and that's in the next 20 years they'll uh it's a conversation like i don't know what the like there's a lot of people that think it should be gsp and that's in the conversation he's in the conversation is one of the greatest of all time some people say you guys must have forgot how

good anderson silva was when he was in his prime that's true too that's in the conversation too but uh you are as well man you really are i mean whether you you know whether you were joking around about it or not you're in the conversation is one of the greatest combat sports athletes of all time and there's a real good argument that when you beat the guys who you beat particularly beating demetrius johnson who was untouchable you know beating dominic cruz the way you did which is dominic cruz is always known for not getting hit and you know you hit him and you hit him a lot and then coming back from the marlon marais fight holy shit after that first round to come back and dominate him and just glue

yourself to him in the second and then put him away fuck man i mean those are pretty pretty powerful accomplishments yeah no doubt about it no i appreciate it joe i appreciate it and don't though oh i think to answer your question what's what's next, is like there's not only the Volkanovski fight that, you know what I'm saying? Because he's not that much taller than me, man. I call him an overgrown midget. And he's not that much bigger than me. And I feel like, man, I know I could beat him, dude. I just know it.

What do you walk around at? What do you weigh? Probably about 150. 150. Yeah, but it would be my skill. would you do um to prepare for that would you gain any weight or would you just keep the the body weight you have when you walk around yeah i would try to gain maybe another maybe five six pounds but i i wouldn't want to like i would try to do it as natural as i possibly can just to have a little more mass. It's a big jump.

Yeah. It does get dangerous, man, at 45. Yeah. Those 45ers, some of them are enormous. You know? Yeah. But the other one is, and there's actually, you know, the potential in the talks, like Ali's going to talk with Ryan Garcia's manager of possibly making a fight with, yeah, with Ryan Garcia.

Ryan Garcia the boxer? The boxer. You you're gonna box why not why not you call me crazy if things iron out you know financially and you know the cars are played right yeah why not he he he tweeted at me he says uh you know he he pretty much called me out that's the way i took it tell him as long as you can throw some leg kicks in there. You get three leg kicks a round. Yeah. So it's been a lot, man.

I've actually been pretty busy. Like I was with Tyson and we were at the AEW event. I was with him. So there's even a potential even crossing over to AEW or the WWE. Do you remember PKA Karate? Do you remember that? No. I think they used to call it the kick of the 90s

or the kick of the 80s. Anyway, PKA Karate was like kickboxing that you'd watch on ESPN at like 3 o'clock in the morning. I think Jeff Foxworthy even had a bit about it. But it wasn't very good. There were some really good fighters like Rick Rufus and there was

a bunch that were real good. Jeremy Trimble. Jerry Trimble. But the majority were kind of second-rate fighters with no disrespect. They weren't elite. And so they had to throw a certain amount of kicks. They had to throw like six kicks a round. a certain amount of kicks.

They had to throw like six kicks a round. Imagine if you had a boxing match where you were allowed to throw just two kicks a round. Oh, Jesus. Two leg kicks a round.

That's all it would take. Look at that calf kick. That calf kick's been killing people. You have two that land in a round. That's all you're allowed to do. And that's all I need.

That's all I need. That would be a fun... Against a boxer? Heck yeah. you're like these things about that yeah well even with pk karate was all the kicks were above the waist like a lot of the pk that's one of the one of the things that really defined really woke everyone's eyes up to the power of leg kicks was when rick rufus fought this Thai legend. God damn it. I'm going to fuck up his name if I don't see it written out.

But this Thai guy, Rick was fucking him up in the beginning. He's real fast and long and hitting him with spinning kicks and shit. There's his name. Try saying that name. C-H-A-N-G-P-U-E-K. Put that on real quick, Jamie. Because watch some of the action from that. This dude came out and did the Y crew and everything.

And, yeah, just take it from there. And Rick Rufus was lighting them up with his hands. Rick was really slick. And he was probably one of the most talented of all the kickboxers back then that were doing the above-the-waist style. But this dude just kept chopping at his legs, man, and chopping at his legs legs and he hurt him that's what rick heard him at one point in time he caught him with the right hand it looked like is that right hand yeah so he had him in real trouble this is round one now this is the first uh this is the first ever like mixed or yeah it was well

one of the first ever this is 1988 and um this is actually when I had, oh, we heard him again, dropped him. Did he kick him in the face on the way down, too? I mean, he had him fucked up in that first round. Then the fight goes on. The dude survives. And this was like right around the time I was introduced to Muay Thai by this friend of mine that I was training with that was friends with this other dude who was even back in 1988 was taking trips over to Thailand. And he was learning from the Thais and fighting over there. And he would come back with these like crazy gashes on his head from getting elbowed.

But I remember that was the first time anybody had ever kicked me in the leg. And I was like, oh, my God, it's so painful. And so this is what happens with Rick Rufus Rick Rufus had this dude in all kinds of trouble but this dude there he is he's chopping at those legs and chopping at those legs and Rick doesn't know what to do and he's chopping at those legs because Rick's never fought with leg kicks before if he did he never fought a guy as good as this gentleman so this is the fight that's really known as the fight that changed kickboxing. It changed martial arts because people understood, like, oh, my God,

like what a devastating weapon Thai kicks to the thighs are. Look, he goes across the front of the thighs. This dude just starts killing his thighs. And what's really interesting is Rick's brother, Duke Rufus, is now one of the top MMA coaches in the world. Look, they're calling timeout. They're making him sit in the corner and they're calling timeout. His legs are hurt.

Timeout. Even Jamie knows how ridiculous this is. The rules were crazy back then. I'm getting into this fight. I've seen this before. I believe he gets up, and I believe he keeps going, and I believe the dude chops his legs again and then he's done

but is he going to let him go I think they might let him go or are they stopping the fight isn't this crazy like they haven't stopped the fight they haven't stopped the fight with leg kicks even though he clearly got fucked up by leg kicks to the point where he was incapacitated but they're going to allow him to keep fighting

which is just preposterous. So he gets to walk it off like, all right, let's keep going. Like, this is how weird martial arts were back then. We didn't think that those were legitimate. Look at this guy just chopping at those legs, man. Beautiful Thai technique. Just so classic with the stance. He's got the hands way up high over his forehead with that stepping motion.

So anyway, keep it going because they keep going. Oh, man. It makes it into the second round. You know what this fight reminds me of? The beer Mariah Smith. Yeah, in a lot of ways, except the chopping down in this case worked. So Rick is, like, really incapacitated by this point. And, look look he just got

chopped across the leg again that's only the third round look at that again boom and boom and boom so what's interesting is that duke rufus was in his corner and duke was like 19 at the time he's a baby face duke rufus who now was one of the best mma trainers in the world and duke was saying oh i just don't think it takes that much talent to kick someone in the legs. And he became one of the best coaches and a world champion himself at Muay Thai. Like, no, this is how, and this is not to knock Dick or knock Rick Rufus or Duke Rufus. They're both awesome.

This is just to say, this was where martial arts was in 1988. We really just didn't know. There was a developmental period where we just didn't know. And see, Rick is just still, they're still going to let him fight. Those are hard kicks too, man. Oh, my God. I mean, even though they're stopping it like that, those are hard kicks and he's still going to fight. He's still fucked.

He's going to be fucked for weeks, right? I mean, look, he could barely walk and they're going to let him keep going. Give it a little forward head. What is he going to say to him? Oh, he's warning him. You threw him to the ground. Okay, so they tell him he can't dump, which is hilarious because he's destroying

his legs is what he's doing. So they got him in the corner. Look at some of this. This is the end of the fight. The end of the fight was ruthless. And you got to think, like, Rick Rufus is so goddamn tough. He's so goddamn tough to just have endured this because he doesn't know how to check it he's just taking them all like there like boom and that was it that last one dude high high shin bone across the thigh and i think that's the end of the fight

if i remember correctly yeah that's it one more there fight, if I remember correctly. Yeah, that's it. Maybe one more. There's another one? Oh, my God. They let him get back up. They dusted him off. He's still just getting fucking. It's all leg kicks, man. It's crazy.

Oh, I'm surprised. Dude, he's taking a lot of pain, man. Do you imagine how horrible this must have been to him? That was the end. That was the end that we did before. Yeah, that's the end. Is that the end of the fight, or does it keep going? Oh, it oh it is the end oh because it just replays all the other stuff yeah yeah i'm pretty sure that we're watching the same round three times i don't know no it's just i think it went three rounds if i remember correctly um but it was just a horrific example of how this is the

development of martial arts right i mean this is like one of the steps on the way to the UFC is that we had to realize about leg kicks. It's a ruthless fight to watch. He looks like he's in super pain. Oh, my God, dude. Well, you remember that one cat that fought in the UFC that almost lost his leg due to compartment syndrome? Did you ever see that scar?

No. You want to freak out? Sure. Maybe you'll rethink a comeback. I'm going to show you something. This dude had compartment syndrome in his thigh. I'm sorry, I'm blanking on his name. Austin Hubbard.

Austin Hubbard, who's a tough motherfucker. That's him. Okay. They cut him from his ankle all the way up to the top of his thigh. Yeah, you're scared? You're freaking out? They're all disgusting.

People have photoshopped it. Oh. Yeah. They made it look like a Subway sandwich and shit. That's his leg. Look at that. What is it? Yeah, exactly.

What is that? That's his fucking leg. His leg is so... It was so swollen and destroyed, and the tissue was so fucked up. That big thing on the tube is a drain to drain all the swelling and the fluid. So they had to open up his leg. I mean, it's one of the biggest scars I've ever seen. It goes all the way down to his knee, like from the top of his hip, all the way down

to his knee. And they had to open his leg up because after the fight, his leg was just destroyed. Look at that. Who's that? I don't know. I thought that might have been it because it's coming up. I don't think so. That guy's got Everlast shorts on.

I don't think that's the same cat. Is that it? I don't know. There's a lot of those dudes from Muay Thai fights. Afterwards, they have giant swollen legs. But that was definitely his leg because John Anik showed it to me in between um fights and he's like have you seen harvard's injury and i'm like oh i heard about it he's like no no you got to see it look look that's what it looked like while he's look at the size of that scar man and look at the blackness of all the tissue like it's

all rotting and it's all destroyed from shins. Bro, that's terrifying. That fucking shit is terrifying. And that is what Rick Rufus went through. Just got his legs destroyed. I think I'm going to stay retired. I forget. What were we? It's like a sub. Yeah, it did.

Yeah, it looked like some pulled pork. For Stravia. What were we just talking about when we brought that up? No, what was next? No, we were just talking about that career. And you were talking about possibly boxing. Yeah, possibly Ryan Garcia, man. That's just for a giant payday?

Yeah. Obviously to win, obviously to fight, to challenge yourself. The boxers don't get as crazy as we do you know what I mean they don't get crazy heavy but I'm walking around 150 so if we do fight

I'd probably be at 35 which is good I think I think McGregor I think McGregor's landing with Mayweather I think if Ryan wants to do it

then I think it's how much time would you need to prepare for something like that probably about two to three months. About three months. Three months? Yeah.

I would like three months at least. How much on a regular basis is boxing a part of your workout? I know that you did a lot of amateur boxing right out of your Olympic career. You went right into amateur boxing. You did that for how long? I did that for three years. And that was thinking about trying to make the olympic team again now once you went back to mma training how boxing focus is your mma training uh it's a

lot but it's also different you know what i'm saying so now it's just i don't even call it muay thai or boxing like it's all it's just mma right you know what i'm saying because distance everything's just different right and then you got to do it according to your style, man. According to what you feel comfortable throwing. So all of your workouts are MMA? They're all. Yeah, they're all. I'm cutting all the bullshit out, man.

I think when you get to that level where, okay, man, a two-hour striking class is just too much. Right. You know what I'm saying? Two-hour jiu-jitsu class that's not MMA-based, it's not good, and it would be too much. What about when you're done with a fight? When you're done with a fight, in between fights, do you work out just to stay fit?

Do you work out for fun? Do you go and do a jiu-jitsu class with a gi on or anything like that? Or do you stick to sport-specific workouts even in between fights? Yeah, even in between fights. Or I could return, depending on the art that i really got to develop so i could go back to just a two-hour class in boxing or two or an hour and a half of boxing an hour of just pure wrestling so you have the ability to do that but there comes a time where you just gotta getting maybe maybe within eight to nine weeks okay you got to transition everything's just mma specific and then having

your partner josie aldo had a different style than dominic you know what i'm saying and i was able to understand dominic for uh because it was a last minute replacement the last four weeks and how much time do you spend um how much effort do you spend weeding out sparring partners and getting the right ones and how important is that for that that's my coach that's my coach's job you know what i'm saying that's for him to call and to see and the people that we know and trust right and all that and uh and the other thing is is my it's hard it's hard what i do i mean i got i got i got a guy alternating like every round i'm doing a five-round fight and i got a fresh dude in every round dude when i'm going hard right you know what i'm saying so a lot of like the act the practices that i'm doing like i'm

really investing in what i'm doing in sparring do these guys know you already i mean have you trained with them previously when they make it to a camp or this is the first time you've ever trained with yes the first time you ever trained with them so it becomes a very uh it's a relationship but it talks a very business like you know what i'm saying it's like hey man you're you're so focused and you'll be compensated to do such and such you know what i'm saying and when you say that like say if you're fighting someone who has like an unusual southpaw style they have to they when they spar with you they should be sparring from a southpaw style yeah southpaw style and always even from the height like i don't i don't if i'm when i fought dominica

everybody had to be exactly dominic size and they had to be able to move like him or try to move like in the best as possible so i'm not sparring with the guys about my size right right you know what i'm saying yeah so it depends on who you're fighting how hard is it to get a guy to mimic dominic cruz actually they're out there man there's a lot of guys that grew up watching dominic fight a lot of there is a guy at our gym a couple guys that are at our gym that emily that moves just like really yeah so he's he's with his whole art like they studied him they were able to develop certain things and they're they're the ones that were telling me like don't even go for this smoke bomb the hands take the legs off smoke and the hands take the legs off and something that i saw from uh from this whole COVID thing, from finding an empty arena, is our corner, we were prepared.

Check this out, Joe. Like, this is how prepared we were. Like, we were even prepared to the point we're using code words. You know what I'm saying? So, every time I heard spaghetti, take the legs out. Pumpkin, you know, let's start going up top. You know what I'm saying? Potatoes is, you know, it's sticking the body.

You know what I'm saying? And I could hear clearly what Dominic's corner was saying during the fight. They're like, left high kick. I could hear it, man. I'm just like. So, it made me understand that maybe the sport of fighting, maybe it's just you fighting. But when you're able to study just like even your surroundings,

you understand, dude, this is a team sport, man. Was that weird that you could hear the coaches so loudly? It was fun. It was fun. It many coaches so loudly it was fun it was fun it was fun i i and it was it was it was fun man i don't know how the other people i fought with the i've been fighting with tons of people in the crowd like it was fun to just hear the corners man like it was a treat for me was it weird that that's going to be your last fight at least you've experienced it once right to do it that way i think that's why I liked it it was so personable man I've I know every detail in the UFC from the security guard to Heidi like I had a relationship with these people with Jeff Nowitzki I'm able to you know what I'm saying without having to take

a picture or a fan wants to see you yeah I'm giving back to the people that have that have been here the last I don't know what five six years was it more or less relaxed when there's no audience more relaxed more relaxed yeah way more no audience? More relaxed. More relaxed. Yeah. Way more relaxed. Seems like it would be. Look at the fights, man. Look at this card, man.

You think the fights would be like that if there was a big crowd? People were into their groove, man, whether you're winning or losing. Maybe it would have. There's also the factor of the smaller octagon. What do you think about that? They're using for the Apex Center the 25-foot octagon. I love it. Yeah?

Yeah, I think it's... You want to see blood, Joe? No, it's not that I want to see blood. I want to see exchanges. I feel like you can still move in a 25-foot octagon. You can still get away from shit, but you shouldn't be able to get away from everything all the time. Like, the bigger the octagon, the more it comes into...

If you're going to use an octagon at all, I think the smaller one's better. My feeling is you shouldn't use anything. My feeling is it should be in a football field. it comes to if you're going to use an octagon at all i think the smaller one's better my feeling is you shouldn't use anything my feeling is it should be in a football field mad up a fucking football field i'm for real where there's i'm not joking yeah i've said this a million times just let the go go up the stairs well where there's no no obstacles no wall to press someone up against if someone gets up they have to get up on their own like they have to be flat on their back in the middle of nowhere and they can't use the wall to get up. I feel like there's a factor and I don't think it's a good or a bad thing, but there is a recognizable factor that

the cage provides. The good thing, if you want to say a good thing, the smaller cage is better because they can't go anywhere. The bad thing that there's a cage at all and that it does get in the way, it does become a thing. Like when someone's clinching you against the cage and kneeing you your back is against cage there's a barrier you're stuck I feel like it would be better if there wasn't a thing that someone could press you against that would be good for their advance yeah I'm saying yeah yeah no I hear you but it also it's almost like the Kumite yeah you know You know, obviously, but bigger. Yeah, bigger.

Just a big, open, like basketball-sized court. Put some crocodiles out. No. No, just have it. Make it real right, a big wave on the other side. And I could argue that, you know, look, it's a dumb argument because I also think that it's better to have a 25-foot octagon than it is to have a 30-foot octagon. I think it's better to have it smaller so you can't get away. If you're going to have a thing where someoneagon than it is to have a 30 foot octagon. I think it's better to have it smaller

so you can't get away. If you're going to have a thing where someone can press someone against it, I think it should be smaller. But I'm a moron. You don't have to listen to me. Yeah, no.

I don't know what to find. I get you. It's, you know, if you're fighting in the woods sometimes. It's more practical. Would you prefer

the larger octagon that you've fought in in Jacksonville or the smaller one like the Apex Center for your style? As a wrestler, if I'm going to wrestle, it's going to be the smaller one. I fought in both. If I was a striker, if I was somebody like just one of the strikers, a good striker like maybe Sean, maybe O'Malley,

I would need a bigger cage because the wrestler's out there to cut distance. If you know how to use a cage, it's a powerful tool. What do you think about the possibility of becoming a coach? Is that something you really consider because you were kind of talking about the heartbreaks of it? I think you would be an amazing coach. Yeah, but maybe to a certain extent, man. Maybe to the right people. Yeah, exactly.

It's hard, Joe. It's hard, man it's hard man this is why because there's some people you know we talked about heart and ability today it's like there's some people that have a lot of heart but their ability is just like dude when are you gonna get it right right or vice versa so i think because i know what it takes and if i don't see that from a certain person then i just i can't be a part of it let me put this in your head think about this team that you put together think about this scientific approach that you guys put together for formulating your camps, whether from nutrition and training and recovery and all that stuff.

Now imagine doing the same sort of work with bringing you disciples. Someone who puts the same amount of effort into finding fighters that are worthy of your kind of coaching. You could develop a fucking empire. Yeah. Yeah come on maybe but it's not i want to get into real estate man i want to do uh do you yeah i want to i want to do that i want to do i want to get paid man i love freedom joe more than anything man like i've competed my whole life from age 11, Joe. I have over like 600, maybe 700 wrestling matches. Competitions, man. Boxing, wrestling. From age 11 to 33, that's all I've ever done.

That's all I've ever known was competition to compete. I'm done, Joe. Unless that Ryan Garcia or maybe the Volkanovski. But even then, if it doesn't happen or whatever, it's okay, man. I'm happy. Whatever happens, man. What you've accomplished so far has been truly spectacular. And I really believe that you can do anything you want, whatever it is, whether you decide to focus on real estate or anything.

A man who can do what you've done can do anything. And I think it's one of the best lessons of martial arts, you know, the amount of power that you have to have in your mind to push your body to do what you've done to push your your will to get those workouts in and to compete when it's when it's game day you've done that you've done it in a way like you you've overcome the back and you're you're getting out while you're still fresh yeah you're a young man yeah we 33 33 that ain't shit you're a young man you have all this energy man, 33? 33. That ain't shit. You're a young man. You have all this energy, man.

I got some hairs on my, I got some grays on my. You've had a very strenuous life. I mean, you know, very few people have put their body to the kind of strain that you have in all those 33 years. But you can do anything, man. Anything. Whatever you want. And you get out with your wits intact. Yeah, no, thank you, Joe.

Thank you for, man, thank you for everything, man. This was a fun time. My pleasure. Getting a chance to share my knowledge and obviously getting a chance to hear your knowledge. And it's been a good time. I just want to, can I, you mind if I give a couple of thank yous here? Yeah, please, go ahead. I want to give a special thank you to my new sponsor, Smart Cups.

That was just, your friend who owns Smart Cups? Yeah, Chris Connect. He just showed me a video of what it is. Can we say it? Yeah, go ahead. You want to explain it, Joe? They figured out a way to have 3D print nutrients and flavor in the cups. So you take the cup.

It's the craziest shit I've ever seen. There's a cup. You buy like a box of cups. Take the cup. You pour the water in I've ever seen There's a cup you buy like a box cups take the cup you pour the water in the cup and it turns into this electrolyte Drink because the 3d Printing of all the stuff is actually on the surface of the cup. It's pretty fucking badass. It's a trip So let's say like I'll give you an example Let's say you know you go to a ballpark and you want a lime like the ballparks for 50,000 people It's the world

champion they're gonna have a bunch of limes like that dude it's expensive and there's that that's what it looks like folks so that's what the 3d printing flavor and nutrition that's in these cups so for instance that picture right there like if you like your beer with lime like that would have a printed like actual lime so you could have a cup that was a lime cup you pour your beer into the like you say if you have a corona you pour it into the lime cup and you get that lime flavor no but check this out too sometimes you don't even need alcohol you just need water because there's already like alcohol in there yeah there could be yeah you just need water turns into beer so really there's a mad scientist next to you, man. Is that real? Yeah. That's crazy.

That's crazy. It's a trip. Well, listen, brother. I've said it before, but I really mean it. It's an honor to call your fights. One of the coolest things about being a fan of the UFC and then being able to be a commentator is I know I've had this incredible job where I get to talk during some of the greatest fights of all time and try to do justice to those fights and try to let people know how insanely impressive some of these performances that you've accomplished have been to me as a person who's been watching fights my whole life. So as a fan and as a person who gets to do it professionally, it's been an honor, for real.

Thank you, Joe. Thank you, Joe. That means a lot to me. That means a lot to me. Thank you for giving me the platform. I haven't really shared a lot of things that I've shared today, and there's no other platform here than the Joe Rogan Show. I'm honored, brother.

Thank you so much for being here. Thanks to everybody for listening. Henry Cejudo, it's over, baby. He's done with you people. Inter you so much for being here. Thanks to everybody for listening Henry. So who know it's over baby He's done with you people Intergender chat