The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #99 with Francis Ngannou

Episode Date: February 9, 2021

Francis Ngannou is a professional mixed martial artist competing in the heavyweight division of the UFC. When he's not busy training for his next fight, he works to empower the youth of his native Cameroon through the Francis Ngannou Foundation.

the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day welcome francis thank you joe i'm glad we finally did this oh finally well your english your english has improved drastically thank you I think that's why I wanted to wait a little bit before coming. I'm like, well, I'm not sure if I will handle that. Sometimes I listen to the podcast and basically when

you're talking about different podcasts, different topics, I'm kind of lost sometimes. Like, okay, what does this mean? What does that mean? But now I feel a little bit comfortable. I'm kind of like lost sometimes. Like, okay, what does this mean? What does that mean? You know, but now I feel a little bit comfortable. Yeah, you're much, well, it's easy to talk to you now.

I remember when you first went to the UFC, I interviewed you and you didn't know what the fuck I was saying. Oh, nothing. Like, hey, growing up, I went to school, like elementary school and middle school. And we were learning English. I know some few words like water and stuff. But just my accent was just so different than when I came here. My first UFC event was in Orlando.

And I couldn't even hear people, like, water. Like, the accent was just so different. I'm like, what the hell is going on? I can't catch any water. You know, it was just crazy. How long have you been in America now? Three years and a half. That's pretty impressive that you picked up.

No, permanently, because I travel a lot. But total is like two years and a half. And you were in France for how long before that? Four years. Four years. When you were in Cameroon, what language did they speak in Cameroon? We speak, mainly we speak French in general. And just in our village that we speak our dialect.

Oh, okay. So you know the dialect from the village and then French. Yeah. And then English. Well, I'm learning English. Well, we're talking. We're talking in English. speak our dialect oh okay so you know the dialect from the village and then french yeah and then english well i'm learning english well you were talking we're talking in english so you you can speak english a lot better than i can speak french well i still have some lacunae in english but uh getting there yeah so this has been a wild ride for you huh yeah it's been a long road. Nobody could have imagined, basically, from looking back from my life, that we're going to get here. Today I have to talk with great people around the world, such as you, and be in the biggest podcast ever. And to be about to fight for the UFC heavyweight championship of the world

for the second time for the second time yeah the redemption the redemption well what was the first time like for you what was was the feeling of the first fight like for you oh um I had two different feelings uh from that fight first uh, obviously I was very upset and disappointed that I didn't win the fight and you know as everyone who is fighting for the title you want to get out there as a victorious but to be honest I always look at that fight and since the fight day, just after the fight, I look at it and I'm like, this is good. Like, I learned just too much in that fight. the uh world title you know but i still have some some missing part in my game and in my experience i i remember i was asking my questioning myself like okay how did it looks like to go into three rounds right basically i'm going to a potential five rounds that I never been in three rounds how did it look like how is it to

prepare for this kind of fight and I had this fight like six weeks six weeks earlier so I was having a lot of questions then after that fight that night I'm like okay I get it yeah yeah yeah it's a very big learning experience right yeah yeah because you were smashing everybody everybody you were knocking everybody out so you had these very quick fights yes very quick very quick rise and uh didn't spend enough time in the octagon to like have those experience even though i was almost like uh you he was almost four years three years and a half things i'd be four years that i've been doing the sport but uh didn't spend enough time in the octagon to have that experience i think uh in one night i have a uh it i cover more than what i've been

spending in the octagon from the rest of my career. Yeah, no, I'm sure. It's got to be a difficult thing to figure out how to pace yourself for a five-round fight when you've only been knocking people out quickly before that. Yeah. people get here while they've been professional when where they've been having a at least at the lives for a long time maybe wrestling maybe doing some different sport at school or at college but uh i never get into that stuff you know growing up i was just like finding my way to survive then I end up uh finding myself in somewhere that uh I never been there you know so the experience was just crazy how old were you when you had your first training your first martial arts training oh that was in uh summer October 2013

that was my first wow yeah so just eight years ago yeah and two years after that i was fighting my first fight in the ufc and i remember basically like at first when i went in the martial he was just for fun to a and people was like oh if you put yourself into this you can become a ufc fighter and a ufc champion you can have a ufc belt wrapped around your waist i'm like whatever you know didn't care about it until i have the ufc contract like two years after that i'm like okay this might be the opportunity that i i have been looking for so it's time to capitalize and showcase my my talent and show the world and shock the world how many fights did you have before you fought in the ufc six fights six fights and did you have them all in France a few fights in France just before in France I had

four friends a fight in France and you know in France the crown and pound is not allowed when he goes that was back back then because MMA was illegal so when he goes on the ground he's just turned into grappling game. Really? Yeah so I had four fights in France one in Sweden and one in Bahrain. Bahrain so when did they find out about you how the UFC find out about you? That was my coach, Fernand, by the time, was working with a manager named Thiago, a Brazilian guy. So they kind of like push. Thiago has a connection with, I mean, he was a manager. times sending him a text message and videos that he would forward to the UFC. And I was still like, yes, but he hasn't fight nobody tough yet. Yeah, he hasn't get a real test

yet until I fought this guy in Bahrain named William Badulti and I knocked him out in the second round. Then I get my UFC contract right after that. What was it like the first fight in the UFC? Was it different? Whoa. That was a crazy experience. You know, I didn't even know the rules back then. I remember I was in Orlando and I'm like, man, this is the time.

Like, I'm going to fight to be seen in the whole world. So this is the time to take my opportunity to showcase my talent, to prove that I can do something. Then I'm like, okay, so what is this? What is this about MMA? How MMA works? What is the rules? How it goes?

And I couldn't get it. Like, didn't know the rules. Because you got used to no ground fighting, punching on the ground, because there's no ground found in France. Yeah, even though I was just doing it for two years and remember at first he was just for fun right so didn't really was there to become a professional fighter you know uh all I cared

about uh at the time was boxing then uh I found myself I found myself there in two years then I'm like okay what is the rules again uh how it works okay uh if he's trying to take me down i'm gonna do this like trying to figure all those out he was very stressful and i'm like guess what at the end of the day he's just fighting i mean uh i don't know if this guy is doing some kung fu shit but he's just fighting. We're going to figure it out, you know. It's just man between man, you know. Yeah, right. Yeah, we're going to figure it out.

I mean, you know, I'm a tough guy, you know, so I'm going to handle it. Why did you transition to MMA and not go into boxing? It's not like a transition, and I didn't have a choice, you know. I was doing MMA uh because when I get in when I went in France I was uh I didn't have a paper so I was illegal so I couldn't work and uh I wanted so bad to do sport and I was doing boxing and MMA but the MMA was the one that was more open and giving me opportunity. Like having a UFC contract as an MMA fighter was a big deal. And didn't have much, you know, like boxing war. It's kind of like a very complicated business.

You have to know somebody. They have to like line you up. It's very complicated. But MMA was just easy you know people out there now I'm like who is that guy we want that guy it was pretty pretty easy and me wise yeah and boxing you have to be connected to the right motor yeah and that takes time yeah and basically regarding my situation back then I had a lot of oaths, you know, coming from nowhere.

Nobody knows me with my accent. And, you know, in French, when you have accent, it's not a good thing. It's not? No. What's it like over there? It's frustrating because the way that they look at you when you speak with your accent, you know, you don't feel comfortable. You can't like let yourself express yourself.

You just feel bad about yourself. You know, just seeing people react, some people reaction sometime and you didn't have a resident card. You was like a migrant. So it was kind of together was a tough situation to deal with basically in the boxing business because they're gonna go see this promoter talk about you but who is that guy where did he come from you know it's hard to have credit from someone now you you came from Cameroon to France just to pursue fighting? Oh, yeah.

Hell yeah. I mean, I didn't come from Cameroon to France. I went from, I just left Cameroon and didn't even know where I was going. I just know that I was looking for a field of opportunity. And that's how I left. Because regarding my situation back then, I couldn't afford to apply for a visa. You know, that was even unbelievable. I couldn't even imagine that.

Visas are very expensive? Not like expensive. They have to check your life, your bank account, your job. They have to know if you're capable of taking care of yourself out there and if you can come back. Because they don't want you guys there with your misery. So they did a lot of background check uh in africa to have to give to give approve your visa to come uh in europe or in america and um my situation wasn't the best i mean

i didn't even have a bank account what for you know half my few my few pounds uh account what for you know i have my shoe my shoe pound uh pound um i just keep in my house that's it it wasn't even enough to open a bank account so but i still had to do something you know i feel that i had to do something how old were you then when you left i was 20 20 25. so you just had gotten to this point in your life where you knew you had to do something. Yes, because it has been a long time. I've been thinking about that for a very long time, looking for what I can do.

And over years, I'm like, okay, at this point, I can't just hoping something will happen. A miracle won't happen right now. You have to take action you have to do something even though it's risky you have to do it and that's when I decided to leave the country and you didn't have any martial arts training at all in Cameroon I had a I started boxing like a few years ago like I left my village when I was 22.

I was driving a motorcycle, doing taxi with motorcycle. You know, like you see in Africa, people doing taxi. You carry like three people behind you, sit on the fuel tank and just like driving them to some point. And that's what I was doing. So that's not like a big job so couldn't have much money but since I I was dreaming for boxing so bad then I saw that to go to the city and finally boxing because I've been dreaming for boxing for over uh 10 years, but there wasn't a gym like 50 miles around. So I decided to sell my bike, my motorcycle, and go to the city.

And by the time my family thought I was, people around thought I was going crazy. Like, what the hell? Like, you have a job job you have a chance to have a job to have a bike you can feed yourself and maybe create your family your own family and you say you're going to do this boxing what the hell is boxing did you ever see somebody coming from here to succeed in in boxing then they would take some example, such as people like Wata Bele, Joseph Besala,

you know, Jean-Marie Mebe, which is people that was like a legend in the combat sport in Cameroon. But financially, they didn't succeed, you know. Their life wasn't a great example to lay on.

And that's why people are like, okay, those people had a chance to start sport when they were young, to be surrounded. You're like 22, and I'm like, I'm going to do boxing. You're old, you're this. You're old at 22. Yes, I'm like, you're old.'re this that's you're old at 22 i'm like you're old it's not possible and basically even if you're able to make it as them what you can't even fit your family with

you know i'm like yeah fact point taken but you know i love this shit i I'm just going to try it. So you just had a desire. Yeah, I just had a desire. I couldn't picture myself doing something else without it. I'm like, okay, it might not work, but I don't want to live with the regret of not trying. I have to try. If if i fail it's okay i have a right to try and to fail to start over as everybody has that right so i can use my right you know i have to try this at least if it uh if it doesn't work uh i won't blame myself someday that I should have done this.

I should have done this. I should have tried. I was just like, okay, I give my best. It didn't work. And that's why I started boxing. And it was so crazy. Everybody around thought I lost my mind. I'm like, what the hell is that?

Boxing. You're going to get hit. You're going to get sick. You're going to end up with Parkinson's. Your head shaking like this. No money. Seriously, take yourself, take your life seriously. That's not serious.

I'm like, yeah like yeah maybe but whatever at the end of the day what truly matters you know at least i will do what i want for some time what i love and if it doesn't work you know i still have some sort of satisfaction satisfaction of doing it are you aware that the amount of success that you've achieved has got to be very inspirational for other people that are in the same sort of situation that you were in when they hear your story and they know that people around them are questioning their desires too you took a chance a lot of chances yeah and look here you are about to fight again for the heavyweight championship i mean it's a pretty amazing story thank you yes i mean i'm aware of that um it didn't take me so long i mean after i get um after i get in Europe to realize that because I started to fight to compete in

France and I was there was seen they were seeing me on TV and calling me or texting me like oh we see somebody on the TV like you but you have a drag love lux the guy was exactly like you you know i'm like yeah it might be me you know so uh after a few fights i'm like damn so that your boxing that your boxing shade was serious you really like that thing i'm like yes guess what yeah yeah i am and i'm like, yes, guess what? Yeah, I am. And I'm like, man, that means it's never late. You know, I've been thinking of doing this, and I always thought, I always think it's too late, I can't make it. But I think right there, you just proved me wrong. Because I was even closer to my dream than yours,

and you still achieved yours. So that means it's not it's never late so let me try out i'm like yeah you should you know what's wrong i mean if you if you fail it's okay you have it right a lot of people fail over and over before succeed he all he always needs one shot to succeed but most people don't have the confidence to take chances like that. Most people, they hear these people saying, oh, you're going to get Parkinson's. You're going to get sick. You're not going to make money.

You're not going to be able to feed your family. And they listen to those people. Most people listen to the naysayers. They listen to these doubters. But you didn't. How come? I think that's a good part of being a stubborn kid. You know, growing up, I always had my own vision, my own point of view of things.

And in Africa, when you have your point of view, which is opposite to what your parents or your elders will have, it looks very bad. You are a very bad kid. Kids just have to obey whatever they are telling them. And I'm like, okay, I would like to do this and all the time I'm like they will tell me like this is not for us this is not possible if for those people out there I'm like yeah but what what do what does those people have more than us I'm like listen you should just set up. Our life is like this. You're going to be a farmer or a constructioner or this, like your parent, you know, you can't.

You're just going to follow the family footstep. And I'm like, yeah, but, you know, I can try something. You know, he always take one shot to get there. And I'm like, we tell you it won't work just forget about it and um i'm like yeah i know but i can still try it you know and i'm like this kid never listened and i always been like that and And growing up, me and my brothers, my brother was the one that was going to obey, do exactly what the parents said. He was a good kid. He was a great kid.

Obey about everything. And I was just the opposite of him. Bad kid. You know, he ended up to be at the point that when I get somewhere, everybody would change look of his stuff. Like, this kid is so ambitious. And this kind of kid never end up where, you know, they'll end up, like, stealing broken houses

because the reality is not enough for them. They just want something bigger. And when you have that kind of dream, you over dream for easy money, for easy life, you're going to end up maybe drug dealer or housebreaking or those stuff. I'm like, listen, I just have my own point of view, which is different than yours, that doesn't mean I'm a bad guy, I knew, I had a chance that, I don't know how, but at any moment in my life, I knew exactly what I wanted, know and that was clear in my mind I know exactly how to um

get myself ready to gather those stuff whenever I shows up and this is from the time you were a boy you've always known exactly what you wanted you've always been stubborn like that yeah like um that started i was six years old when my parents divorced i went to to my aunt and she has like a ton of kids and i was one and more among them it wasn't a great experience but what i do learn that there and this is the first thing that I learned in my life like people was coming over I'm like okay who kid is this I'm like yes it's my she was like this is my sister kid I don't know your sister who married into this guy she was like yes I'm like oh this guy so violent violent. Oh, he's this, he's that. And that's how they were talking about my dad. So every time that they were talking about my dad, I was just ashamed of it.

I was just six years old. Like, if I come into the room and they are talking about my dad, I would just sneak, go back, and go walk away. Like, I don't want to be there. Was your dad a fighter? Not like a professional fighter, but he was violent, fighting, beating his wife up,

my mom up, beating us up. And that's even how they get divorced. And from that moment, I didn't know. I mean, I was six. I didn't know nothing about life. I didn't know what I mean, I was six. I didn't know nothing about life. I didn't know what I want to become in life. But from that moment, I knew something. I don't want to become like my dad.

Like, shit. I don't want this. So, and it ended up pretty well for me because I always have that in front of in my mind and that's hurt me my entire life and that's why even today thinking about my dad he might be one of the irresponsible guy out there irresponsible dad but believe me this guy uh impact my life than nobody else and i think uh even in the better way if he was a good dad like uh have us together educate us you know sometime you tell kids uh kid not to do something you're like why they always want me not to do this you want to try that out to see how he feels to do it you know but i get it on my own and that was for real

my reputation was something to save and uh growing in cameron we drink a lot of beer a lot you know and since i already i had a dream of becoming i had a dream of becoming a professional uh athlete a boxer i wanted to like even though i never be see a gym on life but i want to get myself ready um to get a discipline so if ever the opportunity get there i will be able to gather it and that's why my friend was drinking i would would never drink, never smoke, because I'm like, I'm an athlete. I already behaved myself as such. Really? Yeah.

Even when you were young? Yeah. You just had it in your head that you were going to be an athlete? Yeah, and that was clear in my mind. Did you have any exercise routine that you did back then? Nothing? No. It was just my dream and i believe so much and

i believed so much in that dream and it's crazy i don't know if it was me like just too over believe but in some part of my mind it was clear that it's gonna happen how don't ask me one of the things that I read about you was that you worked in a sand mine when you were young that you dug sand all day yeah that was growing up I was 10 about 10 years old when I started that because I was in the village and where I grew up after my living in my aunt's house, I went to my grandma and we had to like do something, you know, we had to work to contribute at home, to buy oil, to buy food and also for our scholarship for books. So we have to. So you have to work.

And that's how we started, even though that work was meant for adults. But we didn't have any options, so we took what we had at the time. Growing up doing something like that, that's got to, first of all, it had to be very difficult. Very difficult. Like digging sand. Yeah.

It's also your body must develop very strong from doing something like that. At 10 years old, like as you're growing, as you're maturing, doing something that's that difficult, I mean, it must have made you really fucking strong. Yeah, I hope so so but what i was obviously it did but it's just genetics too there's a lot of good things that that came your way that way but but also the difficulty of doing something when you're that young such hard labor i mean it had to teach you discipline there had to be like some positive it's terrible that you had to do that at 10 but there had to be some positive aspects of it some positive repercussions of it oh definitely i mean uh i didn't like like my heart life and uh i felt i always feel like i missed my childhood like

it's something missing in it because it's been too much frustration in my life. You know, like, I had to work by that age and it wasn't enough. Like, when school started, when school starts all the time, I'm going to go to school. And most of the time, still didn't have a pen to take note or a notebook to write on it sometimes no shoes or clothes just have to wear like my uniform was tear all over and I was frustrated to look around and see other kids looking good. You know, they went on vacation to this family member, came back with all brand new stuff. And I was just there looking crappy. I had to take my old book and look for an empty page to take a note, hoping that when I have a book,

I will copy the note from this year in the new book. But at first, I always had to use the old book. And most of the time, teachers, they don't understand why you don't have a book. They don't understand why you don't have a pen. Sometimes they just think that you didn't tell your parents. You should tell your parents so they can buy it for you. They don't understand that

you can't just afford it. Your parents can't. They'll kick you out from the classroom. Maybe just to say, go tell your parents. And you couldn't tell them, we can't afford it. You didn't want to say go tell your parents and and you couldn't tell them we can't afford it you didn't want to say it then they knew but what can they do nothing you know because most of the

time it's going to be even with the money that i work that they're going to buy my pen or my book but uh you work sometime and they don't pay you right away. It's maybe after a month, months, you know. So all the process. And sometimes they will just kick you out from the school because of the scholarship fee you haven't paid on time. So they kick you out. So I was a subject. I was subject of shame to other kids you know

because all the time when they kick you out in front of 50 60 student it's not a good thing you know and I couldn't have a friend because you know how things work you have to be able to bring something on the table to enjoy you know but since you don't even have a pen or a book to take note to take note nobody expect you to bring a lunch lunch or to buy something in the break time to share with them. So they don't want to share with you since they don't have any hope that you will have something to share with them. And I was always in retreat. I always stay in retreat.

And that's how I technically grew up by myself. I end up like not even trying to have a friend. I'm like, okay okay this is my situation maybe i just i feel uh okay just retreat myself not just to try all the time i get shame of it all the time you know i always i retreat and don't have to deal with these people with their opinion on me and uh but that motivated me at some point i'm like damn look this kid they are looking at me like i'm i was nothing but technically i was more than them because uh i'm working you know, even though what I have is less than what they have. I deserve what I have. I work hard for it.

And they don't do, they don't work, they don't deserve shit. They are just a kid. They work and their parents provide for them. I'm not just lucky. I'm not just lucky to have the chance, but I'm still trying, which means I'm not bad at the end of the day. So that pushed me to like,

from there, I wanted something to prove them wrong. I'm like, okay, I'm going to do something that's going to prove this kid that I'm not beneath them. So that gave you motivation? Yes, that gave me motivation because that frustration, I was full of frustration. And I want to drive this into something. I have to prove them. I can't go to the party.

I can't be between. I can't have friends as anyone. And I have to work harder than anyone. You know, my school was like, my middle school was, I think, about six miles from home. So it took me almost two hours to get at school. So you walked? Yeah, so I walked around about two hours.

And before I met the first student, it's at least after like 40 minutes work. So I have to wake up at five, just get ready, start work. Sometime with not eating.

Then I get to school and the school closes at maybe 4 to 5. But since I didn't eat in the morning, by noon, 1 or 2, I'm hungry, I'm starving. I can't take it anymore. I will leave school sometime, you know, just because I was starving. I can't take it anymore. I will leave school sometime, you know, just because I was hungry. Or if I, uh, if I have a chance, if I had a chance to have breakfast or something, I won't eat before I leave home because I know if I eat at five or six, I will get hungry early. I'll take it at school to eat maybe be around 10 so I can resist on to the end you know and that's how I I did it my this entire time so my my process was

all different form from other kids and nobody could have understand that you know he was just on me and i was the only one knowing what i'm dealing with exactly to get there so and all those things keep keep frustrating me i'm like i'm gonna show this i'm gonna show them like how long did you have to work in these sand mines? Until I left school. Until I left school, I was 17. And then I kept doing it. So you did it from 10 to 17? You did it all through school? Yeah.

That was the only thing to do. Right. When did you do it? Like if you went to school during the day, when did you work in the sand mines? Over the weekend, over the weekend over the holidays because i never have a chance to go to i never had a chance to go to holiday even for the summer holiday which is like three months that would be because we have a tropical climate so at that moment we have two seasons wet season and dry season and that's a wet season so it's almost rain all the time kids go to vacation and all those stuff adult doesn't want to work because

he's raining all the time guess what that was our opportunity when they don't want to work. So we have a chance to work. Otherwise, they will come back to their job. We will not have job. Right. You know, so that was a good opportunity to work under the rain all the time. Like get back home shaking because all day long it's been raining. So you have to stay active because as as soon as you stop working moving you get cold you just get freezing so you get active it force you to stay active and to work even more

and our employer will love that because you work even more than normal and uh yeah so that's how we do it. And sometime after school, I will stop at the sand mine if I have like a quick job. Maybe if a truck comes and they have to load it. If I have a place to load, because you load, they give money to share. You get something sometime, sometime not. load they give money to share you get something sometime sometime not and when i was a kid most of the time they kick you out i don't didn't want you on it i'm like hey get away off here you know because the less they are more money they get so they don't want you to fuck around really i i saw that you went you went back recently and you're taking photos of you in the sand mine where you worked as a boy.

Did I see that on Instagram? Yeah. What was that like? I always do that. Yeah? Yeah. I mean, when I'm home, I always like to do that. always like to do that it's kind of like he really helps me to remember everything like where I came from how he was you know every time that I get when

I that I go back home I'll go back to those all those places that I used to work there I hated this thing growing up oh you can imagine i hated the sand mine everything i hated my life but today it seems like a fuel for my life today i have to feel it fuel up from that life go back there cities because most people there are still people that we grew up together and he allowed me to see how far i came from you know like i think it's the the moment that i enjoyed the most is like those moments you know going back go to my uh the house that i grew up into even though we fix it today is not the same but the environment like sleeping have all this nostalgic uh wake at five o'clock all these animal sounds from outside the bed the bed beds all those sound was which is like very familiar bring you back from 20 to 25 years ago.

The smells, everything reminds you something. And this always my best moment. Like I can go there and live in the five-star hotel, do some crazy stuff, but he doesn't. I don't enjoy that as much. Like I don't know how to explain it, but I always do it. Like, I always go back to the sand mine. This is like a tradition.

Not just for them because it helps me. I like it. I feel like, okay, you know, it's kind of like taking my revenge of life. Like, okay, I used to be here thinking this, thinking that, dreaming of this, dreaming of that. Today I have this. Look, that's my car. Look, that's my truck. Yeah. Look, that's my house.

Look, this is my life. I'm going to fly back to America even though I'm here. You know? Yeah. So it's like living You know? Yeah. So it's like living a dream. Yeah. Because back then that was just a dream, a crazy dream, unbelievable.

So I'm living into it right now. Like, yes, doing this 20 years ago, I was dreaming like, man, how it is to be in the airplane, going somewhere. Imagine yourself being in the airplane, going to America or to France or something. Wow. And I go back, I do the same shit. I'm like, guess what? I'm going back to America in one week. Right.

You're living the dream. Yeah. Yeah. And so it just reminds you, just puts you back in that place. Yeah. just reminds you just puts you back in that place yeah and uh what is crazy is like most of the time is going to be with the same guy that i grew up with they're in the same place doing the same thing and what is it like for them do they ask you questions like man you know and that's why i feel very lucky just to have a different mindset, just to even have a dream.

Because they don't even have a dream. Most of those people, if you ask them, okay, what is your dream? Where would you like to be in one year, five years from now? He doesn't know. He gave up a long time ago ago he doesn't give a about it as soon as as long as he has something to eat uh before go to bed it's okay that's it and now i'm like how can somebody live like this right that is your life you can't do anything i'm like but then you will find someone some people uh which is a

little different they are like they have a dream they're hoping to uh change their life those people over years you can see the change in their life improvement step by step like this year they're gonna say ah i want to do this. I wish I can do this. Next year, guess what? Even though they didn't do that, they didn't get that done, they get closer. And next year, and next year, and next year, they move up. But those who doesn't have a dream, you know, they're just there like that. Do you find some of the people there that do have a dream look at you and they get

inspired they say oh yeah yeah those who has and and i think that's um even why um some of the reason will keep me going back and like even in the foundation like once i had like a really good friend of mine this guy is in the village and he's doing good. He's doing his businesses, doing good for a village guy. Like sometime I will come there. He will even give me like a whiskey, find a good whiskey for me. And he said, man, you know, like you just going in America and come back here means means a lot to us like we grew up together that means it's possible for us to that uh drive us through our dream like motivate us like yes if

francis did it i mean i might don't do the same thing but i can get to what i want to you know don't do the same thing but i can get to what i want to you know and uh i'm like thank you i i really appreciate his word and he was like very humble explaining me things and yeah and that's why i also like uh doing my foundation like i like to like tell this kid like listen i'm not a fairy tale i'm not a story that you watch on tv or that you read in the book i'm a fact i grew up here most of you knew me before i even i even live here um which means it's possible. As long as you believe in something, in a dream, as long as you have a dream and believe in yourself, I think success is just a matter of time. What is your foundation?

Francis Nganou Foundation. And what do you do? Honestly, the goal is to do everything because there is just too much, a lot to be done back then. There's nothing out there. But as for now, I have a gym for kids because when I was back there with my dream as a kid, I was expecting to have someone come there and have a gym. I was like, this would be cool.

You know, so I can train, you know. And the first thing that I did when I went in France, and then I see how there are opportunity there. I started to collect clothes, everything that I can have. I started to collect them and ship it home. And over years, I built a gym under the foundation so kids can go there and train. Not because I want them to become a professional athlete, but just because I want them to feel like the matter,

you know, like somebody care about them. Because most of the time, that's why kids give up on their dream they feel like okay it's not mean for us we can get there they just let him go you know but which is which is wrong because I think everybody can can make it it's too difficult more difficult to somebody than some but it's still possible for everyone and from my experience i mean he might not be always true but when you believe when you have a dream and you believe into there is no way that you're not going to make it you know he might take time he might come on his own time but he will always come so you have this

dream you leave cameroon you you end up in france you end up in paris is that where you went and what was that like and how did you how did you get involved in martial arts from there so my journey from Cameroon to Paris was 14 months 14 months to get there yeah remember I couldn't go to the airport and just take a plane to go to France. I had to use all the back doors. It was from Cameroon to Nigeria. And I always, in Cameroon, I always been in this triangle city,

which is like my village here, the capital, the political capital here named Yaoundé, and the economic capital named Douala here is the triangle that I've always been into. I never get out of that triangle. So I'm always like

concerned about how it looks like to get out there. But guess what? Guess what? I don't want to get only out there, only out there and still stay in Cameroon. I want to go somewhere else. Where?

I don't even know. So you didn't even know you were going to go to Paris. You just knew you wanted to leave Cameroon. Yeah. I want to go somewhere that I'll have more opportunity for boxing. So first day how did you escape what did you do well uh i leave cameron and then from there how'd you leave car and train and uh get to nigeria did you save up some money before you went? Oh, yeah. Yeah, just decided this is it. I saved some money,

and I gave some of my savings to my little sister to keep it because where we were going, man, we didn't, I didn't know exactly how it looks like, but from what I've heard he was a you're gonna cross a mafia and all those people across the road you're gonna get robbed every kind of shit

so you better don't have all your money on you if you don't get killed off if you don't kill yourself by taking some risk so that's i leave the money to my sister i'm like just keep it in your eye so every time that i call you be ready to uh to wire yeah no to send it right uh where i want when where i asked you and she was like where are you going exactly i'm like i'm going to the north to the north yeah where exactly just the north that's it you want

you ask me where i'm going and i tell you because i couldn't tell nobody like uh i remember i went to the village three three weeks earlier just to see everything. Because I'm like, okay, this might be the last time, man. I might never come back. I might just die out there. At least I see my family. I see my village and everything for the last time. And I went back in the village.

And I went to my mom. And sometimes I was staring at her like this, was thinking like, maybe this is the last time, man. Man, this shit is becoming serious. And sometimes she crossed my eye and I'm like, why are you looking at me like this? I'm like, no, nothing. A lot of things was going on in my mind.

And I couldn't tell nobody that I'm leaving because when you tell somebody like I'm leaving, the first question that pops up is like, where are you going? I don't know. And then I'm like, okay okay that boxing really started to mess up his head so I couldn't tell them I stay in the village for like two or three weeks I see everything and the last time that I was living the. I think that was a very hard moment for me

because I knew that from there I'm going. I was scared. I was afraid. But it feels like I was forced to do it. I had to do it. I couldn't be into all this. I couldn't be there and see my life turn up the way that he was and not taking action. You know, a few years earlier, my dad passed away.

He got sick. He stayed in the home. We couldn't even bring him to the hospital. And we just look at him get sick suffer until pass away and i was like man if this shit happened again in my family like guess if my mom after all what she should have been doing all the sacrifice as a single mom if she gets sick today we should be the one that uh taking care of her but i can't do anything like i'm just gonna sit like here and see my life and i would like to have kids in my life and uh well how can i take care of those kids they're gonna go back in the same process, in the same life like me. No, I have to take action.

So it was clear in my mind that I have to leave. It wasn't even a choice anymore. It was like an obligation in order to have a better life and bring a potential solution in my upcoming problems. And that's how i left and when i left my when i left my country my country it took i went from nigeria and then after nigeria we get to to niger so what did you do when you go to nigeria how long did you stay there for no i didn't stay the whole thing was 14 months, right?

Yeah. But the Nigeria trip was really fast. You know, Nigeria is the next country to Cameroon. So we don't even need like a visa to go in Cameroon. So in Nigeria, we are free. We are still free. So everything is still cool. You can still travel normally.

And so it took me like two days in Nigeria, across the whole Nigeria in two days, from Yola to Kano. And then from Kano, we found a trip to get in Niger, which is the next country, but more like a deserted country. And we went in the south of it and there we started to be like illegal because from our country to get from us to get there we need a visa but from there we didn't have a visa so we start to have to deal with the police with the border protection all these these things, all day long. You get caught.

They ask you for money. You know, like a bribe. Sometimes you don't want to give them all your money. You need that to survive. And sometimes they just, like, rape you. Like, they want everything. Take your clothes off. Find money everywhere. Everything of value that they see, they will take it. time they just like rape you like they want everything take your clothes off find money

everywhere everything of value that that they see they will take it so it was a um it was a game who knows exactly how to hide something you're gonna have some money some saving on you that nobody can find it and they know how to find it because they've been doing this over years all the time you have to like come up with a new way of keep saving your money sometimes we wrap money in the paper and solo it in order to get to some way because you know that you can cross this zone without get how they say like when they check you frisk frisk without getting get frisk so you you have to save your money some money because you have to survive you have to keep going you have to eat you have to all this but when when they take your money they don't care about all those they just want to take whatever they can take sometime throw you in

the uh desert desert and you have to like figure out your own way back and it's hot no water that was a hair so you had to swallow your money yeah you swallow your money and then find it later find it later you had to right i get like at this point it's a matter of surviving yeah everything that you can do to survive so you have to wrap it in plastic yeah you wrap it in plastic to protect it not to get wet or to get destroyed man and we have to cross from the north niger to um nigeria to uh algeria there is a uh desert called uh sahara it's one of the yeah. The Sahara Desert. And it's like one of the biggest over there. And we have those

people that are going to help us pass. They take our money, they keep us in like some room for like a few days and some night they just bring a small truck and put your some room for like few days and some night they just bring a

small truck and put your Baggage in it. You don't have to carry a lot of package because it's like 50, you know like Toyota Tacoma. Mm-hmm. Yes, it's gonna be like 25 of you guys In the back it 25 people in a in the back. 25 people in a Toyota Tacoma? Yeah. Plus your luggage. So you are not allowed for a lot of luggage. Even water,

you are not allowed for a certain quantity of water because it takes space. And you are going to the desert. Yeah. And you are not allowed with a certain amount of water. How long is the trip? Normally, it's like 24 hours with a car because it's like very flat.

So they don't have speed limit. They can go like 150 miles per hour straight up. And they have to hide from like a rudders because sometimes they are like helicopter flying up there looking control checking if there are something going on because they know that there's a lot of traffic there not only immigrant but only like guns and drugs and everything so they're always flying there so they use like turkey walkie to communicate it's like a organization they are well organized but you have to be lucky so the car don't break up in the middle of the trip.

Because if the car break up in the middle of the trip, most of the time it's over. What happens then? Well, guess what? Yeah. You guys might just die. If you're stuck in the middle of the desert with no water. Yeah, what else would you do? Yeah, what else would you do?

Yeah. So you have to take a big risk yeah so like hundred at the daytime it's like hundred and fifty degree nighttime he drops to like maybe 20 degree it's crazy oh cool a daytime get hot Wow yeah so you have to do that one day trip hoping that crossing your finger that everything goes well the truck doesn't break down yeah the truck doesn't break down and we were in this car like you couldn't even sit comfortable you i was just sit in the edge and you have to grab the truck so hard so you get cramped. But when you get cramped, you can't let him go.

Because if you let him go, you fall and that's it. They won't stop. Oh, man. You know? So you have to like keep holding. So you're hanging on and you get cramps but you can't let go. Oh, you can't let it go. It's your life.

And it's a whole day. Yeah. Letting go is like letting letting your life go you know it's over if i let him go there is not second chance and um after a few hours they might stop so you guys can stretch up a little bit but most of the time when they stop you can't even move anymore you just like shake your body and fall on the ground like cool after a few like few minutes before blood start to flow in your arm everything and you're able to like move it jesus at some, you guys don't get what... I remember there was a girl with a baby in that truck. And we were so tight that she could... And she was even in the mirror, not even the edge. She was in the mirror. But at some point, she couldn't do it anymore.

She just wanted to throw the baby away. Oh, my God. Like, this is how hard it was. Like, she couldn't do it it and you can't blame her. And the guy just keep holding the baby. They take the baby from her, like holding and helping pass to each other. You know, yeah, that's how.

At some point we don't get, we have like a storm of sand. A storm. A storm of sand. So you have to wrap your face and everything because the sand is just like... You go through all this stuff and even before the middle of the trip,

or maybe a little after the middle of the trip, the water is finished. Nobody has water anymore. And these people, they don't give a shit. They just want to thrive from this point to this point. Doesn't matter how many people they get there with. They don't have to report to nobody. They just bring. this point to this point. Doesn't matter how many people they get there with. They don't have to report to nobody.

They just bring, and those who are still in the truck. So you're going through a full day, mostly without water? No, not a full day, because at first you have water. So almost like half a day without water. With no water. Yes, but luckily, when your water finished, water so I have most like half a day with it without water no water yes but luckily like when your water finished like maybe at two or three then by six it's dark sunset and there's no Sun the temperature started go down so it's kind of like you know so you get dessert desaturated at the point that you're not sweating anymore.

It's like oil on your face. Like when you do it like this, it's like oil coming out of your skin. And that's how we crossed the desert. So you get through the Sahara Desert. desert. So you get through the Sahara desert. When we get to this country, the first country in the south of

Algeria, we found a water well. And this water well was there for I don't know how long. I think it was something that was being used by the farmer. And it was so dirty with dead animals in it, birds, everything. Man, I'm gonna drink this water and he

might kill me. But guess what? I would die after if i don't drink this water i'm not lasting long so you drink it you kind of like take the water put it in the bottle leave your shirt and make use your shirt as a filter drink the water oh man try not to feel this to smell it not to do anything you have to you have to and that's where you kind of like start to understand what you put your stuff yourself into it's just the beginning yeah you have to go through all this process now in algeria of changing your identity pretending like buy a new passport like you are from algeria from mali becauseali, what is the good thing with that? You learn a lot about immigration, about relationship between country.

In every country, you know who is their good allies. Who do they have a good relationship with. So in Algeria, they have a very good relationship with uh mali because mali helps them help them where he was a war time so now you have to pretend you're from mali yeah so all all mali malian citizen in uh algeria theyia, they don't even need a visa. They are free as long as they have like an ID. So, we all

are black. We look the same. We all are from Mali. You have to prove it. Just get some people. They are selling passports. Look at this. Oh, yeah. From the time you left Cameroon to the time you get to Algeria how many days is this still not long like maybe just two two weeks two weeks yeah no not too much and how are you getting food

and how are you like how are you getting you still get money. You still get money. You kept some money. Yes. You buy stuff. It's like an organization. There are people around who have set up a business just for those type of things. Just to get you from point A to point B. Yes. Someone who has set up a business just to change devices.

You know, currency. Because from Cameroon to Nigeria is not the same currency. Right. Nigeria, Niger is not the same currency. Niger to Algeria is not the same currency. Everywhere you have to change currency. And there are people, there are already people around you you you don't know until you get there you know and it's good for you because it saves you out of

a lot of problem they are making money on you but at least you have a solution of your problem in the hand yeah and in alger, we kind of like buy a passport because we have to go from the south to the north, which is like closer to Morocco. Then we get to, before get to Morocco. And all the time you have to get controlled by the police in Algeria. They know that because he's been over years.

And then I'm like, why all black people here are maliant? Yeah. But they have like a very difficulty to truly identify some person. So they play it like psychologically. They can take your ID, look at you, your reaction. They might just decide if it's you or not by your reaction. If you're going to get

like a check based on your reaction. You know, so they kind of like play psychology out there. And we went, we passed because I was very very no maybe good at it you know like when I give come like when the cops take my passport I don't look away or I don't like i pretend like i'm sleeping when he come

when he comes to me i'm like oh i take just take my hands up before he asks me i give him my id i look him straight to his eye you know that was pretty easy because when you look somebody is in the eyes he your eyes call calls his eyes so he doesn't have time to look your face if it's really you you know you can't get out of your eyes like right you know to look your mouth or your nose or your ear so I kind of look at his staring on him like at him like this so you know I'm like yeah he might be him because he's so confident But I was afraid as shit I can't imagine Just so far this journey is crazy

Are you second guessing yourself at all during this point? Like what have I gotten myself into? Yeah Because you don't know until you get there And the thing is like you can't go back you can't go back and you don't even know exactly where you're going you don't even know exactly and most and at every step you think the next step gonna be easier guess what you always get harder and harder and harder

that's how it is so you get tied and tied and tied and tied and at some point you find yourself in the middle of something that you never imagined but you can turn around you can't go back anymore and still this is only you're talking about a 14th month 14 month journey and we're only a few weeks in yeah she goes and yes so it just keeps going that was just like a warm-up oh hell yeah oh my god because in Morocco that was it room that was a hair that was oh unbelievable life yeah hey like even now sometime when i think about it i was there it's not like a story that somebody told me i was there myself i've been through all this thing on by myself sometime i still can't believe it can you imagine that so wow you can't even expect somebody to understand

like what you're talking about what was morocco like morocco is a nightmare for immigration it's like a hell of country from immigration because it's the country closer to Europe. You know, at some point, the ocean is just like maybe five miles. The land in Morocco is just five miles from Europe, from Tarifa, which is in here is in Spain and there is a two small territory of Spain in Morocco in the Morocco side which is Ceuta and Melilla those two are just protected by the gate, by the fence, with the... Barbed wire? Barbed wire on it. Oh, those barbed wire, they are sharp.

Oh, I can tell you. They are fucking sharp. You almost take my stomach out. Like, caught me here, everywhere. The first time I fell on it, I'm'm like stuck there but if i stay there on the barbara to expect uh a rescue somebody they rescue then the military will come and guess what ah they don't joke right they will beat you up basically when you're a big guy like this because they know when you're big,

for them, you're the oldest one. I'm like, you're going to Senegal and bring all those bambinos to come to go to Europe because you think we don't want to go to Europe. They beat the shit out of you. Like, sometimes with a bar

of iron, you know. they kill people they kill people just by beating them you know they are just some people then they are not educated there are no differences they don't even understand people struggle they don't understand nothing they just took them in the um town and train them and give them a path to beat people so they're just the people that use for police they just take anybody that wants a job no not for the police there's a different code is a special code just for immigration name Ali because Europe European Union finance that call to protect their border because they know that is like a strategic point from

Africa to go to Europe so they were like okay don't let people come down like Morocco will be like that's not our problem. We don't have money to do all the stuff. So they give them money for that. So it's a good business for Morocco to protect. It's like a lot of money in their economy. They have a new call, a special call for that. So give a lot of jobs. But man, they don a lot of jobs. But man,

they don't joke on you. In this side, somewhere you have like three fans with the barber and the other side you have the Guardia Civil. What is that? Guardia Civil. It's a

it's a call in Spain. Like a private call but they have a lot a core in Spain like a private core but they has a lot of power in the security system and those people they are not like the Moroccan the Moroccan

like they can talk to each other by defense but one side is Morocco, one side is Spain. You know? But they have a very huge high-tech technology equipment for surveillance. Like, they have this camera.

Like, this week I was watching a movie about some movie showing some part of that. And you should watch this. The movie is named Adu. It's a small kid from somewhere in Africa, in Cameroon, exactly. What's the movie called? Adu. Spell that. A-D-U.

There it is. A-D-U. Yeah. is ad you yeah ad you that movie is interesting you can see some some part of yeah that's movie you can see the Guajar civil how they operate even them to beat. Yeah. How long were you in Morocco for? One year. One year? Yeah. Holy shit.

Because every time that you attempt, and it's not easy, you have to prepare to go attempt. And every time that you attempt, if you fail, if you get lucky, you don't get beat up or all the stuff, they're going to bring you back in the south and throw you in the desert to let you go.

So it's their own way to let, to say, go back to your country. They leave you like in the border out of their country, which is in the desert, close to Algeria.

Algerians, they don't want you there. Moroccans, they don't want you there. So you have to work like the whole night to get somewhere that you can rest. And to

go back from where you were it takes a lot of time. It's a struggle because we're going to jump into a merchandise train. And all those things, all this process is very long. And sometimes you have to go in the water to attempt to like deviate from Morocco to get to this island. But it became very, very complicated because they have radars all the time running. And as soon as you even have a chance to touch the water, you're going gonna get caught right away because they have all this high tech this infra rouge motion detector infrared all those stuff they have all those stuff so even when we get we went we go to the fence because there is somebody who always gonna go check to look where there is a weakness on the fence.

It's like, it's about 11 miles of fence will protect a island, a small place like this. So here is water, here is water. They build like 11 miles of fence like this to protect like milia so you're just trying to figure out how to get through the fence where first because like where everything is um where uh still good you can't even imagine it's three fans with popular over over every fence fence with babel over over every fence babel on the floor in this side uh the cup here the military moroccan military on this side first they have like they dig a long hole and then they put those sometimes they put babel into it too so like when you come so just barbed wire everywhere barbed wire yes

everywhere yeah plus you have like i don't know maybe uh the first one is like three time my high okay yeah so so like 20 20 feet of 20 feet and you're gonna climb that and then the second one yes and this bad why how are you climbing it how are you And you're going to climb that and then barbed wire all over it. Yes. And there's barbed wire. How are you climbing it? How are you climbing it? No, you can't climb that. So you have to look.

You guys, someone has to go and look around and see where there's a weakness somewhere to look. And from far distance. You know, he can go. রেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরের� in one place just to observe check what time the military swift what time how do they react this day

how do they everything what time in what interval the Guajar civil in the Spain side pass with their car patroon you know തതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതത্�� some place you come back i'm like okay i see this place i think it's good maybe somebody is gonna take somebody or one two more people there to go check they're gonna go sleep again check read everything the movement like okay the swift then we have a game plan from there like okay they have a swift at this moment

from this box to that box is like um maybe 50 yard or 100 yard but sometimes they are like empty box between there is not always a military in every box they kind of like learn that like রেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরের� okay between the patrol car after the patrol car lift left leave we we're gonna attack because it's like five um maybe we're gonna attack in 10 5 or 10 minutes because he will take them maybe another 10 minutes to come and that will be enough time so that's your opening that's the opening it's like short opening like five minute opening in a one spot and you have to like do it very well because if you fail that will tell them that you guys know this part already they're gonna come and fix it so what is is it a hole in the fence? Is it, how are you getting through? Sometimes it's not a hole in the fence.

You know, sometimes the barbed wire just like. It's broken. Broken and all these things. And in some places they're kind of like, instead of three, it's still kind of like two or one, two. I don't know why, but it's not always like straight exactly and you have to find that opening and when you find that opening you get prepared then you say okay we are doing this this day then sometime you go there you guys at night time you will go there the convoi തതതેরຶັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັ to be like silence, like hiding. Most of the time, the cop will see you. And when they see this mass of people, they know that they are preparing something. They will just send an alert.

But they don't know exactly what time or when. So hundreds of people, they can lay back in one spot hiding for like three days yeah three days when the alert goes on most of the time the guardia civil in the Spain side they start to send the infrared the motion detector all the time most of the time they even of the time, they even send the helicopter to come like fly on top. Even if the infrared notice something there, like sometimes kind of like tricky, you know,

it's technology, but it's not always like accurate. We can just stay there, silence. It's crazy how hundreds of people can be silenced at once since all they all know that their future depend of that exactly moment wow and how many times did you attempt to get through in the on the fence uh many time i touched the fence, like I went to the fence, like I touched the fence twice and cover time we didn't even get to the fence. They saw us even before because the Gwaja Seville, their technology is very high. So we don't even care about the Moroccan military. We know that we can get this guy

all day long you know but the guajar civil man all the technology the motorcycles the car even when you get there it's another deal to run away from them they're gonna chase you all over they have the motorcycles this cross motocross everything to chase you so on the two times when you went you just touched the fence and you got stopped what happens then oh the first time i get caught very cut multiple um wounds and i get back in the forest bleeding. I mean, I was just like trying to get back as fast as I can because that place wasn't good. The guy told us, oh, he's like this. I saw, but he wasn't as he said.

And we went and those who touch the fence, they get really hurt. we went and those who touch the fence they get really hurt we didn't expect it to be that way but he was a lot there were a lot of uh bad wire and uh i get it i was bleeding all over my hands my feet because i fell into it and that was my very first time i saw it and i didn't know exactly how to deal with it i fell like in the middle of it man so with the pain like when you fell on it you just come and like but the problem is to get out of there. To get out of there, that's where it starts to cut. I can't stay there. If those guys caught me there, they're probably going to kill me.

Big as I am, they know that I'm the leader. Because they always want to be done with the leader. And I just pull my leg, my hands. I'm like, fuck. I get caught by this. I get caught by this. I get killed by those guys. And probably they're still going to pull me here the same way. So I get out of there.

Then I went to the fence, look at the fence like this. Man, the bad wire was just on it like this. Man, the barbed wire was just on it like this. I tried, like, the other group was, like, moving around to find a safe place. And the military was with them. So I was technically alone here. I look at this friend like this, touch the barbed wire. He just came down, like, touching on my face I'm like you know what stay there

so how'd you get back over I know I get back in the I found a place because they have a the military there they have places behind their boxes to come they have a walkway you know around the fence so i found a place then i walked back to there there wasn't a military there anymore but by that time but by that time i was like peace off like if even if there was a military there you there would it wouldn't be like many of them like even when i first ran around like um there was a few of them i'm like i'm gonna go through these guys like okay there's like three people in front of me there's my life in behind them my future right man i'm taking my chance oh every day

i'm taking my chance i'm not every day I'm taking my chance. I'm not letting you like just three of you because you have it. Nah, I'm going with you. But there wasn't a military there. So this was the first time? Yeah, that was the first time that I really touched and I introduced. We met each other, the back wire and I am like hey man respect I went back in the forest bleeding all over I'm like man I know that if I go to the hospital

the police gonna cut me because they see there no there's a attack they know there are a lot of wounded people. So they are going to be looking at the hospital. But I mean, or I stay in the forest and die by losing my blood, or I go to the hospital. Then I get caught, maybe they send me to the the desert but at least I was to be alive right then I decided at some point to go to the hospital yeah I get some stitches the police came it wasn't even done they just took me like that wow while you're getting stitched up yeah when I'm getting why I'm getting stitched up they don't care you felt like you had to getting stitched up? Yeah, while I'm getting stitched up. They don't care. You felt like you had to get stitched up, though.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But they don't care about anything, you know. I mean, I don't know if they even realize that you're a person of your hurt, you know. They just took us there. Yeah. That was the first time time and what happens when they catch you well they bring you to the police station you will stay there a few days and then

though because this this is in the north the south is very far so you're gonna go to bring you to the south it's a very long trip when they catch you guys they'll put you in the police keep you in the police station until you are there enough of you maybe to fill one box to make a trip in the south so but since there was a massive attack there was a lot of people that got caught so the same day the day, they took us in Usta, which is in the south. And you sleep there like one or two days. And they wait until the nighttime. They go to the border in the desert and throw you guys there.

Then you figure your way up between Algerian military who are not joking because sometimes when they hear noises, they just shoot. Those people, they are crazy. So you have to deal between them, run, hide. It's very hard to hide in the desert. You know, it's flat, just sand. No trees or grass.

Kind of very hard. How do you hide? Do you have to cover yourself in sand? Yeah, and scroll. All those things. Sometimes you go on the floor like a snake, crumb, until you figure out there's no noise.

There's not somebody around. then you start to walk at least you know like okay i'm going to the north i'm following that light which is in the north which is in morocco which is where i want to go i want to be you know that's how we go because there was a big airport there was was a Moroccan airport not far from there. So we always use the airport light to direct ourselves to where we are going. So how long did it take for you to get back to the border again, to touch that fence again? for you to get back to the border again to touch that fence again this this uh journey is not like one trip there is not that easy it takes a lot out of you most of the time you don't eat so you're not really excited after you fail one time you're not excited to go back there right you're tired right i'm like man i mean you kind of like drop your

hands like i don't believe this will happen one day i don't believe i will make it it's not possible it was hard you know but after a few days you kind of like taking your uh putting your your stuff together i'm like man there's no way i'm going back i have to do this and sometimes instead of like thinking of going back to the fence you're like okay let me go try in the water or something you go you try but for the water you have to like have have money because you have to collect the money. You guys have to collect money to buy a flexible boat. A boat? A boat to ram.

Just a small one, the one that they use in the swimming pool. It doesn't take a lot to... To something that floats. Yeah, to float. You can just with the nail, you can just like bust that right that boat it's very thin just a raft yes yes for swimming pool at home right you know you see that in the in people uh pool yeah yeah and this is how you're trying to get by this how we're trying to get in the ocean. Wow. You know. But at least we have a life vest.

That's the minimum. You have to have that. Yeah. Because you don't know what's going on in there. Right. And sometimes you get caught even before you touch the water. And sometimes you get in the water after a few hours you get caught so I tried the deviation to go to Ceuta which is

another Spain land in Morocco that was a deviation didn't work tried a few times then I went back in Tangier Tangier is the main ocean straight forward from land to land there is no deviation straight ahead

so you literally go in the middle of ocean deal with the Fisher with the boat commercial boat crossing all over you have to be lucky not to be seen not to be detect or someone not to get give the alert to the Border Patrol border patrol. Yeah in Morocco and they are very aware of that very uh ready and that's how like i did it few time too it didn't work once i did it and this time i thought we made we thought we made it because we paddled over like three hours. And, you know, we always like put our boat in the water

like around five to six early in the morning when they start to pray. You know, we always wear that sign because they always protect everything, stay everywhere all night. But the time of prayer they really respect the time to pray which is basically 5 5 30 then we always if we get i was in our spot at time we're gonna wait from that time there allah is like the sign. They are going to pray. Right.

It's the open moment. So you hear that, then you get in the water. Yeah. And they can, and they have to go, they have to pray. And they know that we use that open moment.

So after their prayer, they kind of like patrol to search those who have attempt, you know. And this time that we thought we made it like we get past all those

so there wasn't after three hours you know that they will not be there again they are back home and we cross all this commercial boat the fish those people fishing. We are going on our way.

We have a target in the other side, the mountain. Because it was already the daytime. You mean when you start at 5.30 after 1.30, 45 minutes. It's daytime. But you're kind of like in the middle of the water already. And we paddle, we paddle, we get there. And that was my first time that some group of people trust me to be a captain.

Because I always said, I can be a captain i know how to paddle and i'm like ah you just want to a free trip because when you're a captain you don't participate to buy a boat they use your you use they use your knowledge It's kind of your participation. Okay. You know. I'm like, I can do this. They're like, oh, there's no water in Cameroon. You don't even know to swim. Those people that they believe in them is the Senegalian. Like, when you're, like, from Senegal and you're, like, I'm captain, they don't even have to test.

They're like, yeah, it's from Senegal. Because it's close to the water. Yeah. And most of the the time they know this trick and all the Senegalians are captains then you bring some Senegalian in the water and you have to teach him how to paddle I'm like man I'm not buying this anymore I'm like I'm a captain

but once those kids they trust me and then we went there in the beach the first we were a little late because they came late with the boat and uh those first like group they tried and the vague was so high they couldn't make it make it the week the water like the waves the waves yes the waves was was so high because we have to check like uh meteo and everything we know the this speed of the wind we know the direction if it's like north south southwest not northwest southwest all these things we know that and I just learned that in Morocco. Like I was a specialist out there. Like I can look I'm

like oh today is not good man. We can't even try and yeah that day we go and he was like so so. We tried first group, there was many groups before us because we made it late. They couldn't make it. The waves were so high. Throw them away. They try again. Throw them away.

And they kind of like gave up. And then I put my own, I put air in it, and then I give instruction to my guys like okay when i say go you guys first go when i say go you guys first go because as much as we're going in the water it get deeper and deeper and at first we can all get into when it's not uh so deep because we don't have the depression on it so it has to like be very at some

point before all of you guys get into and as a captain you have to be the last one to get into to put all your guys into care about them and I was a captain who doesn't know how to swim but i was the man like i said okay i organize everything give them paddle and everything

we get there i put them i count the wave the waves like two, three because most of the time it's like three waves and the third one will be the biggest one then when the third one just falls we just go behind the third one and you have to be very fast

because the three next one is coming no firing after the third one And you have to be very fast because the next three ones are coming. No firing. After the third one, we go. I put them. And the first one came. It was still okay. I was still putting some more.

Second one, put them. They were all inside. The third one came. It was the biggest one and those people who have who was trying before they were trying before us they couldn't like there was bad to see to wait so we can fail and we go back together now like ah he's think he can make it you know then the third wave came that was like a like a something that you see in the movie no just smashed you i hold my boat i'm like i trust my myself i trust my boat

like i hold it like this i saw this thing came i'm like put my head in the water hold my boat like this and he came blue like on top of me my boy was because he has a rope around it I hold it and he goes like bring it back I'll just like with my hair under like I bend my head like a torture like bend like this this. It goes and when it came back, I pulled my boat back. Man, the scream like, what the hell is this? I put it and then I just jumped on top like, let's go, let's go, let's go. So we paddle before the next start to go because he's very high by the beach. When the wave roll like this and he start to hit the sand, he comes up.

But more you go in the middle of the water, you don't see that wave anymore. So you're three and a half hours in. You said you got like three and a half hours in deep. No, three hours. Three hours. Three hours deep. Yeah. Three hours in the ocean.

Then what happened? Then this Moroccan, this army boat from Morocco, I don't know where they came from. They were just passing by like a big, massive ship. And they passed behind us. You know, the international line was behind us. You know, the line that the commercial,

because I've been there many times. I kind of like figured out where is the commercial line, the middle. So you passed the Morocco side. Now you're in the Spain side. And Morocco should have left you the fuck alone. Yeah, normally, you know. But, and they almost left us.

They went like down and they turn around. It wasn't their job. This was just like a army. রেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরের� And they came with this big ship. Man, they just come in front of us. We kind of like lost. We don't know where we were going anymore. This thing was just in front of us. Like we are blind. We can't see anything anymore. We don't even know the direction. And then they stay there.

They call the boat protection, the water protection. Guess what? There was nobody there anymore because they know that the red cross can see us and the red Red Cross is coming from the other side. Because as soon as they started to turn around, we always have a phone with a Spain SIM card. Oh. And we have a

Red Cross number. So, you have a phone with a Spain SIM card in it so you can call the Spain Red Cross. Yeah. We call the Red Cross because their job is just to save people they don't want to know where you're coming from where you are from right that's not their problem they just want they just know that your this is a life to save right the safe life and um we called them but we couldn't tell them even where we are.

They couldn't even see us. There was this ship, big things in front of us. I mean, it make us invisible. Right. And we waited, we waited until they come take us. And what happened then? We go back to the same process. Police station, a few days in the police station,

then another city, a few days, throw back in the... Take you back to the desert again. To the desert again. Jesus Christ. That was in December 2012. So, how many months into this trip are you now? Since I left Cameroon, April 3rd. Yeah.

It took me about three weeks to get in Morocco. So, I was in Morocco for so long now. And, I mean, that wasn't my first try. That was, I have tried many time right man that day i was pissed off because you were close i was close this close like you see your life you see your dream turn to nothing like that. You go back to hell. Then from there, I don't know why I promised myself that with all those experiences, I promised myself

that the next time that I'm touching this world, I'm done. I'm not coming back. Like, you know, like, when you get into this, you get mad. You're like, yeah, you get into it. Like, it's time.

I'm doing this. Right. It's like, you have to take your revenge. But, the winter was coming. It was cold. The water was so bad. We couldn't try it anymore by that time.

But the good thing is from there, people give me credit for being a captain. A captain. I'm like, wow, he's a hell of a captain. Like right where they left us in the beach they couldn't make it they saw how I put how I put it so they went back

and I'm like we have a damn captain here named Vandam because back there they was calling me Vandam why Vandam? oh they always have nickname for me

oh okay what does Vandam mean? Vandam Jean-Claude Vandam. Oh. That's awesome. Yeah. If it's not Schwarzenegger or... Oh, that's funny.

You're a hero. Gladiator. Yeah. No, they always give me a nickname. Okay. Yeah. Well, they're all hero nicknames. Schwarzenegger, Gladiator.

Yeah. So how did you finally get through? The next time that I touched the wall. So after the winter. How long ago? How long passed? Like how many more months? Like three months and a half.

So all the winter we couldn't make it. We go back to the forest to attempt the defend again but that life condition was so harsh couldn't do anything like get cool all the time no clothes no food it's really hard you're gonna you have to go to the market at nighttime to go find food in the trash, you know, sometimes arguing with rats in the trash, like, hey, get rid of these tomatoes. It's mine. These rotten tomatoes is mine, not yours, you know. Go back in the forest, figure out how to cook that in the aluminum bucket or something. the aluminium bucket or something so if it wasn't your life you would never believe this and even though it is your life no no I couldn't believe it even

though it was your life is still hard for you to believe yep you know the first time that we went in the water like we were lead by a Ivory Coast guy and this guy he was a good captain he knows the thing he knew exactly what he was doing and he he was very good in the water he knows how to swim he knows everything so the sauce that was our first time and this guy had a lot of experience into this and he's been there for so long so he's kind of like mad about it like okay it's time I'm done with this I have to do it whatever is there is you know as time goes by you're kind of like open to take more risk. You know, at first I'm like, I don't know about this.

It's risky. It's dangerous. And then after time over and over, I'm like, damn, whatever it takes, I'm doing it. You know, he was at that point. We weren't there yet. He was there already. And then he brought us to, this was supposed to be a deviation, but they saw us before, the military saw us before we get in the water.

And he was in the dark. We was on the hill. There was a big hill like this. We have to go all the way down to touch the water. But in the middle of the hill, There was a big hill like this. We have to go all the way down to touch the water. But in the middle of the hill, there was a road and the military patrol was there.

We put the air on our boat, right? In the up, upstairs, in the dark and get the paddle to some people to carry so we can carry the boat because we have to really protect him. Even a stone or something can just burst.

We have to really be very careful. And then by the road, there was a patrol guy with a torch because they sent an alert that something is going on in your area. And the guy just saw us and this

and we thought it was over. This captain, he's just like, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go. I'm like, going where? We are not saying nothing. But you hold the boat, he's going with the boat this is your life you're not letting him go with your life so we just followed and we in the dark and

we just fell in the water like the stone and everything um we have we had a chance um our boat didn't hit on something, so it was still good. But they caught the two people behind because there were six of us. They caught the two people behind with the paddle. Oh, okay. So we fell in the water. No paddle. And the military, they were just there.

And I'm like, with their torch, you know with the thought with their touch you know in the dark when you're in the dark there's just there might just be four of them but they use the touch and like sweep it like this it blinds your eyes you don't know where you're going but we get calm you just hold the the boat this is my life. I'm not letting this go. I'm dying with it. We found ourselves in the middle of the water. And there was there like, Haji, Haji, come right, Haji.

Like, come here. In Moroccan. I'm like, no, we are not coming. We're trying to get there. And when we get in the boat, we find out that there are two of us missing basically those with uh with the paddle right how do we gonna paddle without paddle right and i was thinking that we're just gonna give up like you know turn our seven the guy was like listen we're gonna paddle with our hands I'm like okay this guy might be

stupid or something like people get people die in the war in the ocean pattern with the real pattern and we are just gonna paddle with our hands how crazy is that yeah you know and uh i'm like listen to me was very confident good captain like motivate you guys like listen to me you see that like we are going there you guys you do this on this side you do this. On this side, you do this. We do this. We do that. I'm like, yeah, okay.

Well, as you say so. I started. I sit in the boat. I'm like paddling, touching the water like this. And I'm like, put your, you guys, you should put your hand deeper so you can pull the water. That's how the boat can move. I like okay just doing it like oh whatever yeah I'm like okay when the boat is going this way you guys you should stop paddle and then you guys should paddle faster so he can't bring it back this how we direct the boat you know

man for real my first time i couldn't die just just like this my family don't even know they won't even see my body man i won't even man and now like, I'm already into it. There's no way back. Keep doing it, doing it. And at some point, we were like very desperate. At some point, I just look in the back around. I'm like, the mountain was like far. I'm like, where were we? Because I thought we was just like few

yards away he was moving i'm like where were we the guy said like you don't see it that mountain i'm like so we came from there to here by hand. He said, yes. Man, you don't know. I don't know. Suddenly, I have this crazy power and energy. I'm like, man, we are going to make a story then. We are going to make it in Europe, paddling with our hands. So he's walking. i started patterning i become a i became a captain

at that moment like so excited i'm like patterning this side the guy my uh there were some guy here even my cousin he was throwing up and this i was pattering here turn here pattering move here pattern this way block here ah i was like man we are making stories nobody never made this you know we had to have seen a lot of things made of this one we patterned wedled, and the boat was moving like, we are making it. We're going to make this. But unfortunately that night, since they caught two people, two of us, they sent the alert to those guys ahead. So they sent like this boat, machine boat.

So at some point we just heard this guy he said hold on hold on hold on silence silence do you hear this I'm like what I'm like there's a engine there's a engine somewhere here so and then I said I don't hear like they know where we are they kind of like looking for us and I'm like how come I'm telling you then he said okay if they come here just say it was three of you guys like yes but we are four like i'm gonna swim i'm gonna get in the water we are in the middle of the ocean bro don't die on on us i mean if you're done living but don't just die here you're gonna traumatize us and then here i'm like believe me just say it was

three of you guys so when they started when they pull you I gonna hang on it and then when they cost I'm gonna continue by swimming because he's gonna be very close man how crazy is this in the mirror of the ocean this guy get in തതેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরે� very bright like you can't even see nothing so we are bending our head like this covering our eyes to see a little bit and since they uh they told them it was four of us so they and they just see three so they knew that there was somebody somewhere else they have to look for that person. And they started to turn around and our captain, he was like very good at swimming. Getting in the water there, here,

get out there, just put his head out there. We can, we could have seen his head like just swinging like this. And then get in the water, get out there, swinging like this, like a fish. I get out there swinging like this like fish I'm like man it's crazy but they found it and uh they caught him they took us put it in there bring us

same thing that was the first time and this is the same thing. They take you down. They bring you down to the south. Yeah, same thing. Same trip. Let you go in the desert. Yep. Phew. And, but we get lucky.

We didn't get beat up because the officer was there. You know, officer, they are like, they went to school. They're kind of like civilized they speak french so they talk they understand they speak with you and i'm like you african you're crazy because they call us african well like guess what you're african too i'm like no we are malcribian i'm like oh whatever. It's a big continent. Yeah. So how did you eventually get through? That was in my number seven time in the world. Seventh time?

Yeah, seventh time. April 3rd, 2013. Wow. And when we get rescued by the Red Cross, because I was already like, I had a lot of experience. I already know how to dock radars and everything. You learn a lot of things doing this. You know, like we took either the aluminum paper and wrap it around the boat.

That blocks the radar? Yes, it around the boat. That blocks the radar? Yes, it blocks the radar. Really? Yeah. Either the CD disc. In military, one guy told us that once, when they get caught, they said, Oh, we saw you guys since even before you touched the water, but we just want to wait to come, got you after.

And he gave us these tips, like, next time. But we saw you, and we didn't even want to, but we have to. So they told you. So he didn't want to get you, but he told you he had to. It's his job. Right. But he told you if you just wrap it in aluminum foil, no one's going to see it? Yeah.

Whoa. Yeah, he told you if you just wrap it in aluminum foil, no one's going to see it? Yeah. Whoa. Yeah, he told us. So over time, I kind of like accumulate all this experience. And I'm like, okay, next time that I'm touching this water, I'm not coming back. So how'd you do it? So I was in the forest then for the whole winter and uh because i couldn't even go back to the city to find a job i was done with that i'm like man i'm done with that i could have just in cameroon and keep walking the same thing i'm not coming to a foreign country doing the same

shit like it's over i I'm here for something. I stick on what I'm here for. I don't want to get distracted. I stay in the forest. So every day before I go to sleep, I remember why I'm here. Every day that I wake up, I see Melia out there. And it reminds me why I'm here. I don't want to go back in the city in Rabat or Casablanca or this anymore.

I'm done with that. I'm staying here. But after the winter started to get over, I had a friend who called me and I'm like, Francis, I have this guy. They have a boat. The water is starting to get better now. Not too much waves and this. They have a boat the water is starting to get better now not too much uh waves and this

they have a boat i would like you to come to a sea so we can take them together like i trust you than myself you should come i call my i call my um in my country i for my mom and my brother. Like, I need money. I'm like, we don't have money. I'm like, man, figure out. I have some pick, some stuff before I leave. I'm like, sell everything. I need money.

I need clothes and shoes. And I need to pay a box, buy a box ticket to go to this city. They figured out i think they found like 200 bucks sent uh send it to me i went to the box station i bought both uh box ticket there were it was two of us me and one of my cousin friend my cousin have made it by the gate. And we couldn't even make it because there were cops all around. So we didn't want to find, I didn't want to find myself in Ushda, in the desert anymore. By the winter, if you get there, it's not good, not good at all it's like what maybe 30 degrees in Usta and you don't have clothes and in this condition ah you don't come you don't come out there the same it takes a lot out of you

so we get back in the forest, we couldn't make it. And the next day, like, at the... Not the next day, maybe two days after, because all the time the police come in the forest to chase us. They know where we are in the forest. The forest is very big, very pretty, close to the city. But they come and they're trying to surround us because there's many of them.

And we always have somebody looking up, like looking for the police. By 4 o'clock, 4 a.m. sometime, you were just sleeping. You were just here like, boomla. When you hear boomla, you know, cops is around. What does boom la when you hear boom la you know cops is around what does that mean what does boom la mean police yeah kind of it's not like police but uh the action that the police uh we call the action boom la okay like so they come to catch us we call that action it's like it's not like a pro it's like a slang slang yeah yeah and when you hear that boomla you have to run right we have the plast this plastic that we

because in the forest we put stones together build like a little shutter and then find a plastic and put on top of it not to get wet when we are sleeping so we built it like two feet high put plastic on top you know and then get inside and sleep we we beg for blanket we have some people donate to us. Even some associations will come sometime to give us medication. Sometimes we get blankets. So your main thing is your plastic and your blanket. But sometimes when the police come, they put fire on your blanket and your plastic so

whenever now when they say boom la you have to save your blanket and your plastic because that's your like survival tour the toys you know without them you're nothing like you're gonna have a nightmare uh night you know and um so when they say boomla the first thing you do you wrap your blanket you rub your plastic you climb on top of the tree sometime to hide it but sometimes they climb on top of the they see that they climb on top of it, they see that they see that and they climb on top to take it and burn it so

you ride it sometime, you just run with it, you don't know like where, how this run gonna end maybe you gonna get caught because they always surround you then we gonna like sometime

when you find out that you get surrounded you just go to hide somewhere and you're gonna stay like immobile for hours because they have like uh how they call miniculous binoculars binoculars to look from the other side and they are communicate over the turkey walking like seeing if there is emotion somewhere some people so we have to like get in the hardest part in the forest that they can get there even if they are suspecting that we might be there just the this uh stake doesn't allow them to go there because they get hurt so you have to go to to this pain to support all this pain like okay he's hurting but this is my only way to survive because they can count it fine right even though because they are not sure hundred percent that you're there

to take all that risk so you have to stay quiet for like hours then under the rain sometime whatever is the issue you have to stay there and sometime if you know like really surrounded if you see them before they surround you guys you just start to run over the mountains and mountains for hours before then spend a few hours in the run before came back in തതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതതે��ણ্યোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোর� so that's how we do that so after missing my boss from to go to the to tanger to tanger two days after i came back and i have some phone you know we have some phone he was just for call and i turn on my phone because we always came to turn off to save batteries he has to stay like two weeks you don't want to go down there in the antenna shop while maybe charging your phone get caught by the police which is very stupid you know but and so I turned my phone on I I saw like 12 missing calls.

I'm like, something's going on. I called some people and I'm like, Man, it's all boza! Which means the guy that was waiting for me he made it in Spain I just see the sky fell on top of my head like damn what the hell like I should have been in this I'm like man what do I do to deserve this everything is turning wrong for me I'm like, man, what do I do to deserve this? Everything is turning wrong for me. I'm doing everything.

Like, nothing is going well. But guess what? I'm out of here. I'm not staying here anymore. So I'm like, some people was like texting me like, okay, we have come here. We're going to organize. We're going to buy a boat.

I'm like, bro, I don't have time we're gonna organize we're gonna buy a boat i'm like like bro i don't have time to wait for we're gonna buy a boat uh sometime soon i'm going for those and i have these people that uh this guy that he's been texting me being like we want to you to go with us this they're, literally begging me to be the captain. Because I was a famous captain by the time. And I'm like, man, you ready? He's like, yes.

I said, I can't sleep here in the forest. I can't take it. I just go to the bus station, book a plane ticket i'm like i get caught i get caught whatever happened happens i'm not going back we did i didn't get caught i get in back in rabat the guy was in rabat there was walking and you know i'm like this was tuesday working and you know I'm like this was Tuesday Monday night I get that easy money you know I'm like hey we are walking to these people they're gonna pay us on Saturday I'm like guess what I can stay on to Saturday I can't we are going on Thursday

I'm like okay go there and see how things we will go see how things work and the other people will come because we collect our money together to buy this this boat so

and for now it's still like the end of the winter so the the water is not that calm you have to like find a window and for that you have to check like the weather the material all the single day so we move on thursday we travel to tanger we get as soon as i touch crown in tanger i get fever i get sick i couldn't tell them that i'm sick they were counting on me to bring them in europe so i can I can't show any sign of weakness to let them know that something is wrong. I didn't have any money left. Couldn't even buy food.

But, you know, I was very non-intangible and very trusted. So, sometimes I'm like, hey man, just give me food. Like whenever I give, I get money, I'll pay you. And some few people, they trust me. They know, they know me. And sometimes they give me.

But I always give some little service to people to get money like first if somebody want to know how is the material um how is the weather how if the water is good or not even though i looked already i'm like oh man you have to pay for the internet for me to look that otherwise you won't know and because i know exactly how it works so i can pull up that thing and show him like okay you see this the wind is uh 10 miles per hour so it's kind of like high he has to be like a maximum three miles per hour is good you know and the wind is uh north to south while we are going from south to north so the wind is opposite wire and it's very strong so we're gonna be hit by them you're gonna slow us down we can't make it so i kind of like explain

all that process to them and they like it so when somebody need to know exactly what's going on when they are preparing they're gonna ask me i'm like you know you have to pay for my internet like sometimes i'm like hey man i can't look that thing i'm like okay uh we're paying for internet i'm like hey man i'm so hungry so I can't even see. My eye is blind. So they're going to buy me something to eat. That was my trick to eat sometimes. Wow. And they will buy you like a bread. So how did you finally do it?

How did you finally get across? That was the last time. That was the last time. The last time. So you made it all the way through. Yeah. People saw me. Some people saw me and they were like, oh, if this guy is Van Damme, he's your captain,

so that means you are not coming back here. And people, they even want that guy to kick out some people and put them back. They are trying to pay extra money just for him to put them you know like i can't it's not mine it's not my call we collect we put money together to buy it so i'm not the one in charge we are all in charge i can't put somebody out and they was like yes because you have a lot chance to make it since you have found them as a captain. And you're like, okay, how many are you guys? Nine.

But we can take 10. Like, no, the captain say nine because we are big guys. And normally this thing shouldn't even be taking nine, even though sometimes they put more than nine. But we are big guys. I don't count myself as one person. I have to count it like two persons.

Because if you miscount, you're putting your life in risk. And that's how we get there. So you finally made it all the way to the other side. You call the Red Cross. I finally like i wait i waited because the water wasn't so good those days i waited i waited and i'm like okay this day next tuesday is good and he calls so not to let people, the police in the city, because they control the bus station. If they see too much people come, coming, basically with big bags, they kind of like figure out something is going on. You know, they are preparing something.

Right. Then they're going to reinforce the security. something right then they're gonna run for the security so like we let them other people back in Rabat with the boat and paddle and everything they just came the same day that we leave because we didn't want to bring and take bring any utter attention to us and I'm like Tuesday Tuesday is the day and I'm like so I can't tell them to come on to come on on Tuesday I'm like yeah okay they are coming on Tuesday I have to find this taxi driver we're gonna take us because they are not authorized to do that.

But there are some people who did it because it's like a mafia. You have to pay way more. You know, staff that they will pay like 20 bucks or he asks you for 150 or 200 bucks because it's

illegal. He's taking risk. Then you agree with it. You need that. You need that person to do that work for you and to keep you help you go where you're going. We get the driver ready, put

everything together when they came on Tuesday on Tuesday and I was still sick but getting better normally the captain doesn't support to carry anything because they save him he has to save his energy for the big walk which is like to paddle to direction everything to coordinate everything in the water but where we were going to put our Odiak, our boat,

there were a lot of cops there. We couldn't make it. So we have to go all the way around. We couldn't go back. And it's like going in the forest, jump in the fence, all those stuff. And it's going to take a long time, a very long time, because the forest was very dense. And the way that these people are moving, I'm like, we are not going to make it. So I have to take this thing this boat and carry it

I'm like okay you guys if you want to go you better follow where the boat is going because I won't be waiting for you guys since you support to carry the boat they're moving too slow yeah you're moving too slow we go all night long until like at the end we end to a place like a big steep it goes down like this I mean those kind of places that when you go down

you can't come back anymore and then we went down there we all made it the problem now where to put it? Because there were all like stones, no sand, no beach. The original place was like a beach. So with sand, so we can walk and put our boat, we can put air in it.

Everything was perfect there. But those place... Too much rocks. So you don't want to get the raft damaged then i'm like okay how are we gonna do this you know sometime when is the day is the day nothing can stop you and everything is putting himself together to like make it happen i told the guy i was the captain i have to figure out they don't care you are the captain that's your business they are hoping they just wait for you basically for most of them it was their first time so they don't even know how it works i was just expecting them uh not to um turn back when they see the water in the face

because most of the time oh i want to go to in europe i want to do this collect money buy the boat get there see the water see the wave yeah the wave like boom i'm like i don't want to go to europe anymore like i'm not getting in there. I'm going back. You know what? Take the boat. Take the craft. I'm not in it anymore.

Take my money. Everything. But the problem, if somebody did that where we are, the only way back is to go back to the beach. And there was a police there. And the police will know. They will know that something is going on here right and they will send an alert so they'll come so you have to make sure everybody goes with you i make i have to make sure nobody nobody give up nobody leaves first i told them

like okay guys wait here let me go find the place. When something means to happen, everything comes together to make it happen. Like suddenly, I found a place just enough to put the air on the craft. I mean, it was this small, like this table. Not even as much as this table, a little smaller. Then I'm like wow this cool we can put the air here but how to get between this stone to get in the

water you know because he doesn't you know you don't have to he doesn't have to touch the stone the stone has to scrape it yeah yeah yeah it doesn't have to touch the stone and basically like, like with the waves, the waves keep smashing you. You can really get in the, you can smash you over the stone. And when the waves smash in the stone, it's not the same way that the waves smash in the beach. Because in the beach, the sand is like this. So it's taking it like this. But the stone is just strong and there and it's like boom so you better don't be in between stone

and the wave and so I'm like okay how where do we gonna go suddenly some place appear to be like right there so like a working place between stones and i walk around look and i found a small beach like just as this table just to put the boat like some i i keep i always keep asking myself like that place really exists or it was just something that god god put it there to make us go because it meant it meant to happen like i'm not sure it was just so perfect for a very weird place to find out all those things together just a small enough beach, just perfect. Small enough, just a small enough place to go to the beach, from the stone to the beach. Man, just perfect. I went back.

I told this guy, let's go. So I have to change my tongue, how I talk. I have to... Motivate them. Not only motivate them. It's not about motivate them. You have to scare them. They have to look, scare at you than at the waves.

Ah, yeah. Because you're not taking a chance that somebody turn around. Right, and quit. And then get caught. And quit. If somebody quit, you're getting caught. Right. So I take a paddle, just start yelling on them,

like fainting them, like, like, man, just change. Get the shit out of them. Yeah. So it has to be like the point that you're going to be afraid of the, get scared of the waves, but turn around, see me, get scared of me.

So he better keep going. Otherwise, you're not going to make it. You have to do that. You have to do it. So I changed. And I was like fainting on them with Padua. Like, I'm going to smash you. Like, do this this do that and

we put everything together go in the water the water keep turning because in between stones even though it was a beach but the water there was very weird like turning around you know and keep throwing us, keep throwing us. I'm like, no, man, we are going this way. Put in the third time, we made it. We start to move. We get out of that place and keep going. And we paddle. From what I saw on the weather, the meteor the meteor the rain supposed to you said meteor does that like

meteorologist report is that what you're saying like is that yeah the so the the just more the weather or the the waves no the the weather the white the waves everything the wind you know right all the different things all the different things in the water because i have to know the state of the water that i have to deal with right right right so i found all that i had i had all those information i know exactly i even know that rain gonna fall you know so I'm like okay if we go at 6 to 5 30 to 6 it's gonna be like one hour and a half we're gonna be very far to be able to call the Red Cross and we keep going keep powering powering and after a few തതതેরຶັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັ around I'm like man this helicopter should just pass this way like staying here will alert people from both sides that something is happening right under

here they are looking for something so now this is the decision to take either we call the Red Cross and use the helicopter to tell them exactly where we are, or either the Moroccan saw that and figured out there's something going on and come here, get here first. So I'm like telling my guy, call the Red Cross. Because the first thing when you call where are you what are you seeing well give yes give us something that we're gonna we were just like we are underneath the helicopter you see the helicopter because we are sure that everywhere that you might be you will

see that helicopter right I'm like we are right on the needy and there was like do you have a girl a woman with in the boat this by the time my English was very like bad we I was speaking like pigeon and I'm like do you have a woman I'm like what the hell did it have to do if we have a woman we are in danger but i didn't tell that to them i'm like yeah we have a woman guess we have even a child we have babies like right why do you want to know whatever you want me to say yeah yeah just come and save us we are in danger and right just after we hung out hang up like the the water really started change that rain he was like he wasn't raining but starting yeah starting and the water was like we all regroup in the middle of the craft. It was very scary, but we have to parry

because they said they are coming. And after a few minutes, I saw something. The water was, we were floating, getting on top. And I saw there were a lot of sheep in the water but i saw something red because their butt is red i'm like that might be it i think that that's them but i can't tell my group because if i tell them and they get excited i throw away their pattern if I tell them and they get excited, I throw away their paddle and it's not them,

we are done. Right, right. So as captain, I have to keep them down. I'm like, okay, maybe keep paddling. I'm like, let's go, guy. Let's go, let's go, let's go. And at some point, somebody said, hey, I think I saw them.

I raised the paddle, shut the fuck up. Like, it's not them. Where think i saw them i raised the paddle shut the fuck up like it's not them where do you saw them i'm like i think you don't think either you see them or you don't see them because if you do this and the truth in excitement they throw the paddle out we're fucked we're fucked you know. After like a few minutes. So everybody kind of like figured out something is going on. Looking, looking. Like they really say, yes, there is. Like it was clear that that was a Red Cross. Man, I didn't care.

Like some people threw the paddle as expected. I remained the only one, the the captain i was paddling by myself like instead of like somebody there helping me for direction i was paddling like paddling like this to keep the boat the direction paddling back you know like i just had some some power right there. It was crazy. And they came. I'm like, they was like, calm down, relax, calm down. Everything's okay. Calm down.

Because they don't want us to fall in the water. Right, right. Because sometimes with excitement, people get crazy and end up like maybe the boat flipped and get them in the water. So what was it like when you got on the boat when you got on that red cross boat and you knew people was ex we were very excited we make sure everything that we get as a paper passport we let in in the water because if you have something on you who says you're from senegal even though you're not from Senegal, you're getting deported from Senegal right away. So you make sure you don't have any paper on you.

Okay. Yeah. I was there, man, thinking. Then suddenly I realized he was April 3rd and I left Cameroon April 3rd, one year ago. Wow. One year anniversary.

One long journey. Man, I felt like he was maybe 10, a decade. But when I was in the Red Cross boat, that's when I realized it was just one year so what happens from the Red Cross picking you up did they bring you to Paris like where do they bring you no they bring you like right to the coast they call the police right okay we have a people there right it's not their duty they don't want they don't judge you they just want to save you they're saving you they give they bring you there they tell the police But they're bringing you to the Europe side.

Yeah. Okay. Since that is their base, their headquarters. They bring you in that side. What happens once you get over there? Well, they give you to the police. And the police started to question you. They bring you to police station.

And what do you have to tell the police? Oh, your story, your country, where you're from. But before you get there, you know those country that has a they can deport you right a good relationship with France so not like good relationship it doesn't have to be a good relationship they don't have an extradition yes some country doesn't have an extradition uh they don't sign that convention what country is did you say you're from uh Cameroon from all my trip that was the first time I was like proudly uh Cameroonian like oh I'm Cameroonian you know oh so it's okay because Cameroon and France they have a relationship because no Cameroon in France we were in Spain

right but we they don't have that like a tradition right I say convention they don't sign my we don't sign that so that was a good thing for cameronian those people like because in algeria we are all mali malian and in morocco we are all from senegal even uh guinea bisao like west africa because a lot of west Even Guinea, Bissau, like West Africa, because a lot of West Africa country has a good relationship with Morocco, which is visa-free. They don't need visa to go there. They just get in the border and maybe sometime. Once you're in Spain, do they let you go?

Not yet. Not yet? Not yet. This journey is not over yet.'s not over oh the mental part of the journey is coming oh boy because after that they're kind of like oh we're bringing you to the court i mean it's just a procedure like you you don't even see the judge i'm like oh this is your um lawyer how they call that lawyer yeah no yeah you know uh commit office the one when you don't have money the one that uh defense attorney yeah yeah i know what you're saying i know what you're saying yeah yeah so since you can't afford lawyer there's they

are lower that they give you yes this is your is your lawyer. The lawyer, they come and like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And go away. You don't even go to the courtroom. You don't see the judge. They bring you to this center. I mean, they call it like detention center or something. But man, this is like a harsh prison. It's crazy.

They just want to break you down mentally like at some point you go crazy in there you're just like okay i think i was good being in the forest in morocco i was at least i was free man you were in this place they tell you when to go like take a shower when to eat when to sleep when to patio this that and everything is like this and you don't know what is your future you don't know if you're getting they're sending you back in your country you don't know if the the kind of like checking on your backgrounds guy and stuff hey Hey, guess what? You don't even give them much information.

You lie on many things. Like, why do they want to know? Just free me. That's it. Right. How long did they keep you there? Oh, almost two months. Two months?

Yeah. And what are they trying to get you to say? Nothing. Just keep you there. Want to make you go crazy on your own. You're like, piss off. You want to get out of there. You don't do anything.

I'm like, okay. Are you guys going to teach us even some language every day? Come, like, amigo, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, you can't even have a english uh like a spanish teacher there at least we get occupied like something something man nothing but so why do they eventually let you go well they can deport you some for some people, if they suspect that you're from some country who has an extradition, they might bring somebody from your embassy to come and investigate to see if you're really from that country that you're saying if he recognized you and if he recognizes he said yes he's from my country they'll deport so what is it like when they finally let you go some association will

come and takes you and they give they offer you to stay there for a few days or for longer, for two weeks or for longer if you want, but you have to decide if it's two weeks or if it's three months. You have to choose right away. But I wasn't going to do anything in Spain. I just wanted to go. So we stayed there after like two weeks. Less than two weeks. So I called in Cameroon again one more time. Guess what? I made it.

I need some money but this is the last time. I figured out something. I needed clothes to wear. I needed a cell phone. And they sent me some money, like 300 bucks. Yeah, 300 to 400. I bought myself some clothes, some cell phone, and began the trip. and I wasn't going to France yet because like I wanted to go

to the UK to England because by the time the boxing I always during my journey my goal was always to get somewhere with opportunity of boxing and England was like a big nation of boxing

out of any country in Europe. But to make it in England, it was a very... I mean, you have to go through all this process because England is kind of... They're kind of like taking themselves out of europe so there is not a free circulation as in europe from spain to go to france italy germany bruxelles is easy there is no police control or anything but from there anywhere else

to go to england oh difficult it's difficult even as a france resident with your resident card you still need to have a a visa unless you're a french citizen otherwise you still need to have a visa to go to england so it was very complicated i and i'm like man i'm kind of like tired of this back this back door this service door entrance you know and even if i go to england at the end of the day it's not done yet like i don't know how long it's going to take me to get there uh and if i get in england I still have to end up in the US because that was the main goal the main goal was get oh yeah Wow oh crane of my dream was always been in the US basically like I was so big and

all around those calling me American and I'm like yeah i am you know like my signature my signature sometime like when i sign is uh people don't understand why it's sf and uh i was like 10 years old figure out my signature and since there was a city in America where I know is San Francisco, and people sometimes ask my name is Francis, who call me San Francisco, I want to change my name to put my name San Francisco. That's even why I signed SF. And it ended up to be my official signature. So my signature is SF.

So when you write Francis Ngannou you write SF? No, no writing to sign a document. So when someone wants you to sign a document you don't sign Francis Ngannou, you sign SF? Yeah. Wow. It's kind of like special. For you it's important. So tell me what is it like the first time you walk into a gym in Paris? Okay, so then since I couldn't go to England, I'm like, okay, I might go to Germany. Even though there will be a language barrier, but, you know, boxing doesn't take that much. You know, it's kind of like showing part. If you work, you're going to get that really quick for coaching cross yes coaching is not going to be very complicated so i was going

to germany but we were a group of people most of people the people in the group was just like france i'm like okay let's go to france first. Then I went in France just by curiosity to see, but I never really want to go to France. And I end up in France, and things started to put themselves together. And I'm like, by the end of the day, it's not that bad. I just wanted a place with opportunity. A place with opportunity.

France seems to have that opportunity. And he will help me to get in the U.S., in the main door, instead of the service door as usually and because I went like then I went in France I get in France like June 9th 2013 we went I was with some guy I saw I was with some guy. He has a friend who was in some community there, some Mali, from Malian community. And you're like, OK, I'm going there. I don't know where I'm going. So I just follow them.

They jump on the, you know, this thing at the train station, how call it turnstile yes at the turnstile we couldn't pay i jumped on it too we just keep going i followed them i followed them then they went to this um malian community i saw the first time that was the first place that I saw in France man I was so desperate disappointed like

you know it was like two buildings and somebody was they were like putting their clothes drying their clothes on the window and somebody was standing from this window talking to somebody there in bambara like abrigidi abrigidi i'm like my mind was blow out like man so i almost died for you this this is friends that they are talking about that was my first image of France. Man, I'm like, I'm getting out of here.

I don't want to stay here because this kind of thing kind of like drown your energy. You know, I don't want to stay around this place. So I found a parking lot. And the next day, I mean, show show showed us a parking lot there was we found a cameroonian guy who came there to eat and he said ah i'm sleeping in some parking lot if you guys want i'll show you where it is i'm like hey i really want that like i'm not staying here because people were recommending us to call the French. That number is 115. So they have a place you can call to book for a night sleeping.

But it's like just a place to sleep. There's like hundreds of beds in the big house and you guys just go there. All homeless people. And I was homeless, but I had a very proud, like, no, I won't give up. You know, most of homeless people, they just give up and don't treat themselves, like just treat themselves very bad.

I'm like, no. Seeing this, all the time that I get around that, I feel like it's going to drive my energy, take out my energy. I was so pumped out, expecting a war to come to me like exciting about everything that kind of environment wasn't meaningful for my dream so I'm like now I rather sleep on my place even if it's not true I rather keep leave with my dream than just let it just live in a homeless shelter right yeah right so how do you get to an MMA gym I first went to the next day I found a boxing gym I all day long I was walking asking until I

found a box a boxing gym and I found it was about four and it was exactly a boxing time and i asked to talk they give me this sheet with prices on it everything i saw the prices i'm like damn they don't really know that i can't afford this but i asked the lady in the front desk if I can see the coach and she told me the coach is not there but there is a guy um giving taking a class so I can meet the guy if if I want I'm like of course I met this then after like 30 minutes she brought me down she showed me to the guy and like the guy was DJ Carmon the first guy that I met and I was telling him like yeah I mean I was just straight up like listen um I just came here I don't have where to sleep I don't have nothing but I mean I'm not asking for something uh besides somewhere to train besides a opportunity, I'm not asking for something besides somewhere to train, besides an opportunity, because I'm going to become a world champion.

You know, like when you walk to the gym, you don't have nothing. And you're saying that for people who have been there for years and years. It looks like you're kind of looking at them like, oh, what are you guys be doing there? You know, you've been wasting your time yeah but it was just like me believing in myself but he was very receptive and very um show a lot of compassion of my situation and i was even surprised before we left he gave I was with some some guy that I met down the way and he gave us like 50 50 euro I'm like why did it give us money like you know it was just so understandable of our situation and he, I'm not a coach, but I'm going to

talk to the main coach. That was on Monday. He said, I'm going to talk to them. The next class is on Wednesday. I'm going to talk to the main coach and see what he said. What he says. And if he says yes,

I'll give you a call. Do you have a cell phone number? I'm like, of course. Just give him my cell phone number. And on Thursday, he called me, and I'm like, yeah. I spoke with the coach, and everything's okay. He said, you can come to the next training,

which is Saturday. I went to that. He said, yes, remember, next to the next training which is Saturday I went to that he said yes remember by the way I have a glove a gloves for you and let me know if you need anything the $50 the 50 euro that he gave me I started and with some money that I started I stopped in the boxing in some spa shop and bought like short back one one t-shirt yeah and um tower and that was it couldn't even buy a mouthpiece neither a hand wrap hand wrapped nothing the morning was finished it was over hey man I went to the gym the Saturday was a sparring day he gives me a gloves I didn't have a hand wrap no mouthpiece nothing dumb like yeah he says parry and they are

like yeah like you don't have like no yeah I don't have but let's go hey I didn't care you know he was he's crazy how by the time I was so excited like I didn't care and now when I forget my mouthpiece I rather drive back because I care I'm like okay if I broke my teeth I kind of like think about those things I'm very cautious now like okay but then I'm a, okay, if I broke my teeth, I kind of like think about those things. I'm very cautious now. Like, okay, I'm a professional. I'd be so excited just to be there. I have something to lose now. Yeah.

You know? Right. Maybe sometime I'm going to be, I might have a fight coming up, waiting for a fight. So I don't. You hadn't done any training at all in a long time, right? Yeah. What was it like to just get in a long time, right? Yeah. What was it like to just get in there right away and spar?

Oh, I was so excited. I was so pumped up. Man, like finally get a gym like that. Man, that was crazy. And after two weeks, he was telling, he started to tell me like, man, you have a good boxing. You have a good, because he was a big guy too and we sparred i am like you have a good boxing uh but you know with your situation i think the thing we're gonna help you the more we're gonna help you the most will be

mma you know boxing business is kind of very complicated it's gonna take time you know but mma you can easily pretty soon start a fight and get 500 bucks or something and that will be very helpful seeing your situation and i'm like what is mma? Started explaining to me how it's martial arts. Yeah, good. MMA means mixed martial arts. But what's that? You know, he started. Yes, you know.

So you had never seen the UFC? You had never seen? No. I have seen it like a few times on TV, but didn't even stay there to watch i'm like why whatever you know just keep doing my thing right then he started to say yes it's in the cage and this i'm like ah yeah i have saw that a few times like yes if you do get some wrestling, just some good wrestling, a little bit of Jiu-Jitsu base to get up. Like, what is Jiu-Jitsu? Tata explained me everything.

I'm like, hey, man, please, leave me alone with your MMA. That's hilarious. I want to do boxing. But they offer you a fight for money. But he was very, like, subtile. So he wasn't rushed, wasn't pushing me. Right, very subtle. But, yes, all the time he knows when to put a word.

Like, I'm telling you, you should just try. Give it a try. That's it. I'm like, man, I want to do this. It's straight boxing you know a boxing yeah a noble wow like mike tyson you know mike tyson right yeah sure exactly that's what i want to do and we keep training and he was very like nice like want to like help me to fit in. So after training, most of the time,

he was like, hey guys, let's go to the ball. Let's take a drink. And he knows that most of the time in Paris, when a guy call out for a drink, even though somebody call out, make sure you have your money because everybody gonna pay. And he will say, I get you all the time sometime he'll call out for dinner and like oh i get you just to help me to be around people because he knows everything he knows that

i'm sleeping in the parking lot and he was a big guy he gave gave me clothes. He gave me my first perfume. Ralph Lauren. I was homeless. I have my backpack. But I have my perfume every time. That's hilarious. After training. Take my shower.

Really good. Wear my clean clothes. Put some... How long before you got your first fight? No. close foot some so how long before you got your first fight no like

after that like after one almost two months that gym supposed to close during for one month

during the holiday during the vacation and that's when because I wasn't doing MMA there like for one month during the holiday, during the vacation. And that's when, because I wasn't doing MMA there, like he offered me to try, I'm like, whatever. But since at the daytime I didn't have time, I made this association at the street that they was like helping us,

giving us like food every Monday they come by and trying to give us whatever like some these little things that you might need like a mouthpiece or a mouth brush they i remember i had a sleeping bag you know the military sleeping bag yes the offer they gave me that because the first time they are like what can we do for you i'm like it's pretty cold down there because it was by my by my parking lot it was underground parking lot i'm like it's freezing so if you guys have some blanket that might be very helpful they said okay next week're going to see what we can do. We're going to be here by this time. By the same time, I'm like, okay.

So I came there the same. So I kind of like have a routine of seeing them every week and telling them how I'm bored. I want to do something. I'm like, we can't give you, we don't have job for you. want to do something i'm like we can't give you we don't have job for you but um if we want to come to our place to help uh cook cut veggies or do whatever you can do because we we make food about 700 meals every day to go provide a gift to the homeless in north of Paris. So if you can help for the daytime,

if you have time, every free hand is welcome because as an association, we don't have enough money to pay people. So we kind of like use most volunteers. So if you want to volunteer, I'm like, yeah, that's cool.

Then they set up a meeting with the manager and we met we go through some stuff and i'm like okay you can come there is no rules every time every day that you have time and you want to stop by for two hour one hour help us to load stuff in the truck or to unload or to cut veggies you know or to whatever that you can help for for how long you have is you're welcome so I started to go there I started to go there by the time so since the gym my and the mmf factory was next to that association and um since my this but i never go to the mma factory i didn't even they were doing crossfit in the he was they was doing crossfit in the first

floor so what I see from that gym he was kind of like CrossFit I didn't even know if they were doing like stuff like boxing or MMA and by the time he was in MMA factory he was a cross fight the name so which is close to crossfit so i just thought it was a crossfit gym but um since the my gym one uh wanted to close i'm like tell once i was with the manager of this association and i told him like um i think i'm gonna uh see if this gym uh next door has a boxing if they are doing boxing there so i'll keep training during this one month that my original gym gonna be close he says ah we have a good uh relationship as we are good neighbors so i think he will be good if I play it for you. I'm like, good idea.

That would be a very good thing. And he went there. He talked to this guy in the front desk. He was Frank. And the guy just came. He was a nice guy. He was a part owner of the gym at the time. was very nice just came in I'm like look at me oh good baby you can do we would like to have this you know like fennel would be happy to see him

yeah you can you're welcome man anytime that you want yeah so you start training there yeah and he said but Fennan is the one like taking care of combat sports so I think you should meet him and yeah he said he's gonna be here on Thursday it's usually here on Tuesday and Thursday which which is the main class. And we were Tuesday. So the next day was, we were Tuesday and I kind of like tell him like how my friend Didier Carmon is always trying to tell me about MMA. And he was like, yes, your friend, he's right. I'm like, yeah, but you do boxing too? He said, yes, the boxing class is at what, this time, that time, that time. Then I came there for the boxing class is at this time, that time, that time. Then I came there for the boxing time.

I'm like, yes, you should try MMA. We do MMA here too. You can try it if you like it. I mean, once I just come, I was just about to try, you know. But I love all these fighting things. I'm like, oh, it's cool, it's fun.'m like oh it's cool it's fun so i kept coming just because it's fun but not because i want to mma like when they keep talking about like yeah you should do this yes mma i'm like you just wanted a box you just wanted a box i tried your mma leave me alone you know i just want to do it for fun and that's

it yeah you know but and so uh by the time i was already like having a good relation with didier camo but as he saw that i started to do mma and that's exactly what what he wanted like he get at the point that he come to like pay for a membership at this gym just to keep me going and he knows that i want to be where he's at so all that sometime he's gonna call me like very excited hey what's up man how, man? How are you doing? What are you doing today? You're going to be at training today? You're doing the MMA class today at the MMA factory?

I'm like, I don't know. And then he's like, yes, I'm going to be there. And I'm like, oh, cool. Yes, I'll be there. So, like, many times he will stood me up. He won't show up. That's funny. He just wanted to make sure that you went make sure he just wanted to keep me good isn't it crazy when you think about that's how you got into mma and now in a

month you're about to fight for the heavyweight title yeah for the second time yeah and by the time like uh even fernan was telling me like yeah you should do should do, I think you should. It was very exciting about it. And now I'm like, nah. I mean, if it wasn't, uh, about Didier Carmel, I would have left even that gym after like one month.

So how did they get you to sign up? How did they get you to fight? The first MMA fight. So after like one month, like Fernand just told me like, oh, there's a fight, um, in the, there's a fight here in town.

This guy, they were like, you can fight him. I'm like, well, since I'm doing this by curiosity, let's get the full experience out of my curiosity so I can truly tell how he feels right i went there it was a tournament and i'm like okay let's get this one day tournament so multiple fights in a day or uh yeah but um no it wasn't multiple fight it was like two weeks tournament okay so you fight and then you wait a while and then you fight again in a few weeks time? Yeah. Two weeks. Two weeks.

So I won my first fight. Submission. You won by submission? Yeah. What did you use? I don't know. There is not a name for that. Like, I don't know.

I just grabbed the guy's hand. I'm like, okay. I'm breaking this hand or you tap. You just grabbed his hand? Yeah. I was on top of him. I like turning. I don't know how.

That's crazy. I remember my… Did you try to show someone how you did it? Like, could you recreate it? No, I didn't create it because my jujitsu coach named Christian Pumbu, which is a former light heavyweight Bellator champ. So he's the guy that hurt me a lot on my ground game. And he was right there. He was telling me to do something.

This is it. There you go. That's my first submission. I don't know what is that. Let me see that again. It's a shoulder lock. Yeah, look, you got him in a shoulder. That's a legit move so that's very legit

so they taught you how to do this no he was he was coaching me christian that's very legit christian pumbu he was sitting there and he was coaching me and he was telling me like put your foot like this i think i first put my foot in the wrong way but at the end his shoulder get blocked so he tapped so it was a submission that's a legit move that's very legit that was my first fight after three months and a half is that your only submission no no no you have other submission yes i have four submission really yeah wow that's interesting that That's legit, man. My first UFC, my first performance of the night in the UFC was a submission over Anthony Armitage.

That's right. That's right. In Albany. What did you get him with? Umbra. No, no Umbra. Kimura. Kimura.

Hmm. Yeah. Okay. From, so he was taking my back, then grabbed i blocked his leg take him down is uh the alistair overeem ko is that your most spectacular victory you think yeah that one was so great i remember when you hit him i don't even know how i responded because you hit him so hard and he went flying back and stiffened up, and I remember thinking, holy shit, that was about as hard as I've ever seen anybody get hit

from a punch in my life. That was like a perfect punch. Yes, he landed pretty well. But the crazy thing is not just that you did it to him, but that you did it to, not just you landed that punch, but you landed it on one of the most decorated strikers ever in the sport. Right there. Boom. I mean, he's one of the most decorated strikers ever.

I mean, K-1 Grand Prix champion, dream champion, Strikeforce champion. I mean, Alistair, that guy has insane amounts of experience. For you to land that kind of punch on him. Leading to that fight, I was very relaxed. Like, confident but very relaxed, you know. Flow, just letting go. And he plays up really well. When you went into the Stipe fight,

the first Stipe fight, how did you expect the fight to end? What did you think was going to happen? I don't know. You didn't know? Yeah. So, that fight was so,

all the way through that fight, nothing was right. All the way in training? Yeah. Even how I approached the fight because I was in my I remember I was in my hotel hotel room like okay if I win this fight was going where am I going from like Boston right now where am I flying to in Vegas how like there was a lot of empty spot in this and I had to go back in France like three weeks before the fight because I came here a few months ago and didn't really I didn't really give a chance to work with somebody.

I was working with Dewey Cooper, which is my striking coach, but not an MMA coach. I was holding back to trust people. I don't know if it was due to my experience or what, but it was really hard. So when comes the moment when Mick Manor called me after the Alistair fight and offered me a fight, like, okay, what are you doing?

January 20. That's the title fight. I want a title fight. But this is like, what, six weeks ahead? And I don't even have a camp my camp is friend i was still staying in my camp like in my mind still holding on in my camp in france but there is the moment how can i do it i have to go back to fr. Did you train in France for the Alistair fight? No. No. You trained in Vegas? Yes, I trained in Vegas.

And, you know, but it was easy because I had this fight like three months ahead. Right. You know? So I kind of like, I was able to like find a sparring partner and get like, get them at the PI and train there right but this one was like six I get a fight six weeks so you decided to go back I didn't even have a manager by the time so I have to like get getting done by myself why did you just see you went back to Paris to train for Stipe yeah did you have good wrestlers to work with yeah I have good wrestler but he was just such a short period of time

because i staying here by the time my resident card was temporary and he was just one year and he was due since month so i have to go back to la apply for visa to go back to France all this thing uh then um Fernand by the time he couldn't come here because he has a business going on so he couldn't come here for a month or stuff so I have to go back in Paris and that's why I'm like, well, I should have something like right here. Like, you know. In America. Yeah. In case an opportunity show up, this kind of thing, I have to like

right away get into. Right. You know, I don't have to need to travel in three weeks. Right. But there was a lot of things that I didn't know that i kind of like figured out during the process during the fight how it plays out how it works you know did you have you watched the fight since then no really no some highlights i don't like to watch that fight i have this fight in my mind like every step of the fight i still have it

in my mind i don't need i don't even need to watch it to see it i know exactly what was happening what was going on in my mind what uh my corner was telling me i remember everything so leaning into the rematch yeah what now you're training a stream couture are you doing all your training there yeah do you I train at the PI too but just like strain on conditioning and who does your strength and conditioning there Kyle at API okay and so did they have they been working with you for a while to prepare for this? Yeah. Because you're leaner now than you were before, right?

You were heavier at one point in time? I was heavier leading to that fight than I was maybe in Alistair's fight. But I'm still heavier now than I was back then. Just from all those strength and conditioning work? I don't know. What do you weigh now? Right now? now yeah i'm 275 275 well that's not too bad so you don't isn't it weird that the heavyweight division has a weight limit it's kind of strange it's heavyweight like why do you have to cut weight for heavyweight well it's weird right i mean heavyweight should be as big as you are that's what what heavyweight's supposed to be.

Oh, guess what? It keeps you professional. Yeah, I guess it keeps you professional. In boxing, they don't have weight limit. No, but that's what doesn't make any sense to me. I never understood the 265-pound weight limit. Why? Because I remember when Tim Sylvia was a heavyweight champ,

there was a couple times where he didn't make weight, or at least one time that he didn't make weight the first time, and he had to go back and cut weight. I'm like, this is strange. For heavyweight. For heavyweight, he didn't make weight the first time and he had to go back and cut weight i'm like this is strange for heavyweight for heavyweight doesn't make any sense that means there's a there's a supposed weight class after that yeah but no one's ever fought in the ufc yeah i don't even remember what it's called um super heavyweight super heavyweight is that what they call it yeah it's just ridiculous it's uh but the point is so um so you're basically around the same size but you you got a little leaner after that fight though right yeah oh

getting to the next fight i get very lean i was i remember i went into my fight again lewis i was like 250 253 253. now was that in response to the first fight with Stipe? Yeah. You realize you had to... Like my fight against Lewis never really happened. He was just... Derek Lewis. Yes.

Again, Derek Lewis didn't even happen because everything there was just... I was there for Stipe. Right. I was there to just correct everything there for steve he was there to like just correct everything that i should have done when you say the fight never happened it feel like you just weren't there for that no i wasn't there yeah like i wasn't there you made a correction after that though like for that fight you were very tentative you didn't do much the both of you didn't do much because like um you know for the steeper fight i

think uh i rush basically for the first round and now i'm like i was there like damn i had five round why should i like rush and then run out of gas run out of gas like right i should have like and look in that fight mean, I watched that fight. I see the guy look like me, but I don't recognize myself because it's not the way that I fight. I look back to other fights. It's not the way. He looks like he's two different person. It's not the way that I used to fight.

You know, I kind of like calm. I push the fight. Let myself get into fight. calm, I push the fight, let myself get into fight. And if there's an opportunity, like most of the time my opponent will be even the first to attack, you know, because I'm there. But this one, I just like rushing there.

So I'm like, I should have calmed down. I should. And I keep telling, repeating in my mind, like calm, calm, calm. So I keep telling, repeating in my mind, like, calm, calm, calm. So I was in the fight with Lewis and I was just like, take your time, calm down, don't rush, calm down. Hey, guess what?

I was even surprised when the referee said, after the end of the fight, I thought it was maybe the second round or something. Really? Oh, yeah. I was surprised that that was the third round i was like calm down francis calm down so you were still dealing i was still dealing with the stupid fight like telling myself don't rush calm down it doesn't take much you're gonna get this

the fight after that was stipe uh excuse me the fight after that was Junior Dos Santos? No, Curtis Blades. Curtis Blades. Yeah. Curtis Blades and then Junior Dos Santos. No, Curtis Blades, Cain Velasquez. Cain, oh, Cain, that's right, Cain was in between. Yeah. Okay, so you got back on track with Curtis Blades, you stopped Curtis Blades. Yeah. You stopped Cain Velasquez, you stopped Junior Dos Santos. Now you're back on track.

Yeah. Then Jairzino Rosenstreich, that's the next fight after. So you just got, you're knocking on track. Yeah. Then, Jairzino Rosenstreich, that's the next fight after. So, you just got, you're knocking everybody out again and you look exactly like the same, but an improved version

of Francis Ngannou. The improved version of you as you were making your run up to the title. Oh, yeah. A different, a different Francis from that.

The same physique, but a different fighter from that. And, like, now when I don't have a fight, I mean, I kind of just work on my wrestling. I'm not expecting for work. I used to work on my wrestling,

but now I kind of put a point on my wrestling and stuff when I don't have a fight. I don't strike that much when I'm not fighting. Just try to work on the things you need to work on. Yeah, try to work on different things or work. The past few months, just before his fight, I've been working with Ronnie before he fought at the Bellator because he has a very good ground game.

We do jujitsu, wrestling with many guys at the stream. We have some big body guys there, such as Kyle. What's a great gym, you know what I mean? That's a great gym. Yeah. Extreme Couture is one of the best gyms in the world for sure. Yeah, and on top of that, I mean, like for my standing point,

I never really like go for the best gym. Like what matter for me is people that I'm dealing with. You know, the kind of people if I feel like, okay, I can deal with these people. They are good people. that's matter for me more than the actual gym and at extreme kuti i kind of like find find out that found that you know people who were just there i mean i remember like eric was uh eric nixick which is now my coach he was like all the time like yes man anytime you need me call me and then

i'm like yeah this might just be some coach want a fighter you know then i can't with the time i kind of like know the guy know the person i'm like this is a great guy i would like so you develop a good relationship yes we develop a good relationship i say i Yes, we develop a good relationship. I say, I would like to be with this guy. I can deal with this guy. That's great. When did you start letting people hit you? When did you start letting people hit you in the stomach? When did all that start?

Oh, always. There's so many videos of fighters hauling off and punching you in the stomach like you're standing there flexing. He used to be on my chest. Growing up, I used to have my little brother He used to be on my chest. Like growing up, I used to have my little brother come and hit me on the chest and everything. I see.

I always like toughness. Like, ah, I'm the man. That's why I always think that if I would have like grew up in the US. Look at this. Yeah. There's so many videos of guys hitting you in the stomach. That's got to be very disappointing for him.

Just have a dude stand there and take your best shot right in the stomach. Now, you have this amazing opportunity right now to fight for the title again. But for the longest time, it seemed like that wasn't going to happen. I mean, you had to wait so long to get another shot at the title. I knew it was going to happen. It was frustrating. The waiting time, all those things, uncertain. But I knew it was going to happen.

Guess what? There's only thing who will make it happen get your ass walk your ass in the gym work get out there win the fight you're gonna get the title shot you know at some point it's not like obvious it's not like okay it's gonna happen after a certain fight but at at some point, he's going to happen, you know, which is the good thing. So technically, he comes with your result. He's based on what you do. You are the one calling.

Technically, you are the one calling the shot. What do you think is different with you between the Francis from the first fight and you now? Oh, everything is different. Everything is different. I surround myself. I have a great team. I had a good team before.

Now I have a team that we have built a relationship and they are always around. Like, I have to fight in six weeks. We have been working on this for so long. Even before my previous fight, we have been working on this fight. And I have people around just ready for, like, do everything that has to be done for the fight. തതેরງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງງັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັັ� those staff you know because i was just by myself the team wasn't built you know so we just came

eric just came and make all this travel just in order of helping me stay in train while i'm here well francis i'm very excited for the fight i can't wait and uh i really appreciate you coming here it was really great to talk to you. And your story is incredible. It's incredible. Thank you for having me. My pleasure. For the most famous podcast in the world. It was my pleasure.

And, I mean, I think you're an incredible person. What you've done is amazing. Your journey, leaving Cameroon and making it to where you are right now, about to fight for the heavyweight title for the second time, it's an amazing, inspirational story. It really is. Thank you.

And, but there's some part of that journey that I cannot recommend, though. I think I was too crazy to do some dumb, dumb shit. But,

you know, like when I go back in Cameroon, some people will still ask me like, how do you do, make it in France? I'm like, hey man, figure it on your own.

I'm not going to tell you. Yeah. Not because I don't want you to make it, but because I don't want you to go through what I've been through and I know exactly what it is like. And I was very lucky to get out there alive. Like, in the past six months, i know three people from my village who have died in morocco in the past three months trying to escape yeah two of them die in the water and one just gets sick and die recently it's like my friend a little brother and that's so sad and I can't like keep I can't like not think that thinking that I have something to do with it like most most of them just

want to do it follow my path I'm like that's not a good way to follow you know I don't recommend that to nobody to go to that road it's a hell it's a matter of luck and you know we we all have luck but sometimes he's play he plays differently in a different ground so like as soon as i get back out there, I tell my family, hey, please, just stay back there. I don't want somebody to give me a heart attack. So if I go out there and I will hustle for us, if things work pretty well, I'm going to go back there, build maybe a company, get you guys a job.

You're going to build something good for the family. So you're going to be able to even apply for a visa just go visit those country europe and or you don't take the path you took you don't even need to go there and stay there it's a nightmare you're gonna have a cultural barrier you're gonna have all this thing you have to struggle or you don't need that anymore just please stay home you know like i always like remind them like please hold on if things change for me it's going to change for us for all of us i have to take the risk for all of us so that's never been there that's beautiful that you have that intention that's why i'm committed i committed to a um come to a um foundation ineroon, which is like a...

There it is. No, not this one. This is a different one? You have more than one foundation? This is my foundation. Yes. Oh, you committed to a different foundation. Yes, I committed to a foundation that has been helping people from Morocco who are tired and want to go back to their country.

You know, to help get the youth, put them aware of the risk and tell them, please don't do it. I know you're going to, I'm not the best example because I did it, but that doesn't mean it's good. That doesn't take away a risk and it's getting harder and harder and it's your life that you're putting in line on the line you know yeah that's the part that i can recommend to somebody but the rest dreaming trying yeah

well your story is incredible francis and uh the title fight is march what's the 27th march 27th i can't wait i can't wait good luck to you sir thank you very much you're gonna call that fight oh i hope so i think i will be thank you always a pleasure thank you very much thank you very much bye everybody Thank you.