The Joe Rogan Experience - JRQE #4 - Duncan Trussell

Episode Date: November 9, 2013

This podcast is currently only available as audio. This podcast was recorded during the production of "Joe Rogan Questions Everything" which originally aired on SyFy.

This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience podcast was one of the episodes that we made while we were filming the sci-fi show Joe Rogan Questions Everything. So what we did when we did that show, if you've never seen or heard of it, we had a podcast on the show. And a lot of people thought it was a fake podcast, but it was actually a real podcast. And thanks to the generosity of the Sci-Fi Channel, we are now able to release it as a podcast. generosity of the sci-fi channel we are now able to release it as a podcast so uh thank you to tim and wayne uh from sci-fi and uh to michael and frank from uh arthur smith that um produced the show thanks also to todd who was the director of the show we had a great time doing it and appreciate it very much and appreciate you guys letting me do this like that like the way we did it i think it was uh it was really fun to do it this way.

We did it exactly like a regular podcast, just me and Duncan. And in this episode, we went over what's called biohacking or what I call dorks with knives sticking things under their skin. Fascinating subject, and I think you'll enjoy the shit out of it. This episode is brought to you by legal zoom legal zoom is uh one of the sponsors that we have where we have actually many people that are connected to the show have used it on it was formulated through uh legal zoom brian made his company in llc through legal zoom it's a way you can do things online where you can get legal papers filed

and do things without actually having to go to an attorney and sit down and pay for an office visit and pay exorbitant amounts of money to an attorney. And also, you have to schedule shit and drive and all that jazz. You can use LegalZoom naked. You could be naked. Nobody could stop you. You could make it a point to only use LegalZoom when you're naked. It won't have any benefit or any detriment to the actual legality of the papers that you make.

What kind of stuff can you do? Well, here's one. You can incorporate or form an LLC at LegalZoom.com starting at just $99. That's really easy. They can help out with trademarks, copyrights, patents, if you've got a great idea and you want to protect it. If you have a family, you can make a will. You can make a legal will for just $69. You can also get living trust, power of attorney, and more. In the past 12 years, over 2 million Americans have used LegalZoom and they've saved a shitload of money. Now you get a special discount from listening to this podcast. Make sure you enter Rogan in the referral box at checkout for more savings. LegalZoom is not a law firm. They provide self-help services at your specific direction. And if everything spirals out of control and you're in a panic,

they actually can connect you with an independent attorney if you need additional guidance. So check out LegalZoom.com and see how they can help you today. Use the code ROGAN in the referral box. And now, without any further ado, the podcast that we did on biohacking with duncan trussell and me all right the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day

You know what's really crazy? That your mom, after that, one of your stepdads was gay. Mm-hmm. Isn't that like an interesting sort of a snapback from that? You know, like she was probably around this crazy guy with guns. It's like, get the fuck, give me a gay guy. Yes. I'll take it.

Yeah. That's what my mom did my dad was like a really violent cop and she married a hippie like when she broke up with him my stepfather had long hair until i was like 15 years old he had like a ponytail he's a total complete hippie crazy stoner architect you know yeah yeah well he's not back you don't want to date hunter s thompson you don't want to be around that was that your dad hunter s thompson shooting shit yeah still is he is he's he's still traveling around in a like rv just seeing the world yeah well now he's just no now he's like local in alabama but he like goes hunting deer still and he like I told you the fist fight thing, right? No. This is the weirdest thing.

I was getting a ride. This is a quick story. I was getting a ride back from college with my friend, Sean. You recording all this? Yeah. My friend, Sean, was driving to Mobile, where his dad lived. On the way back, I'm riding with this guy. He's like, dude, I forgot to ask.

I want to ask you this. Is your dad's name Julian? And I'm like, yeah. Julian Trusley's like, your dad assaulted my dad in a bar. My dad beat up my friend's dad in college. When did this happen? The assault happened, I think, before me and this dad from in college when did this happen this was i don't wait the the assault happened yeah i think before me and this guy were in college together but if you look at the

probability of getting a ride back from college with a guy who was a mobile the probability of your dad having beaten his dad up it's so slim it's so slim that like my what are the odds that my that we both go to this liberal arts college of 500 students and the one other guy from mobile alabama his father had been assaulted by my father in a bar those are pretty small odds minuscule odds it's pretty funny too that it would be your dad too because you're like the opposite like i could never imagine you just assaulting someone even if somebody got really mad at you you'd be like all right well fuck you man and you just like get out of there like the idea of you assaulting someone is beyond comprehension so the idea of your dad being this fucking hollow tooth bullet carrying savage beating the fuck out

of your friend's dad getting arrested jesus. He got arrested in the parking lot. Two cops took him down, and he got arrested. My dad came home from high school once with a black eye. Him and his co-worker, they were doing a business together, and the business started going bad, and they got in a fucking fist fight. And he came home, and I remember looking at him. I was like 16 or 17 or something like that, and a black guy was like, what the fuck, man? Are you done with this?

You're still duking it out? Yeah. You know, 40, whatever the hell old he was back then. Well, it's a classic. It's a classic. It's a classic man. It's weird. A classic man fought.

Like, it was like, think of Hemingway. That's what's just part of being a man is like you would get in at some inevitable fistfight and in those days it seems like you don't get in a fistfight and there's lawsuits and legal stuff it's just like the other guy accepts getting his ass kicked you're the victor and that's it or you get your ass kicked and you forget about it that seems like the old way it is now if you get in a fist fight you end up in you know serious legal trouble you get an instant lawsuit but it was it used to just be like when you see elk smashing into each other in the wilderness that's what it used to be being a man you just run into a guy and just start punching each other and then that was it those were the days back in the good old days Before writing shit down

Once people had a few mistakes And started writing shit down They were like Oh yeah Okay Yeah blame it on Hammurabi It's all Hammurabi's fault And that gentleman

His name is Sharid Sharid Sharid Sharid and Lucas And they're from Grindhouse Wetware And Grindhouse Wetware first of all, greatest name for a company ever. What does that mean? So it comes from the name Grinders. That's what we are.

Get real close to that. of like what happens when you mix open source hackers and body modification with a dash of transhumanism and wet wares is this, you know, your body. So we're literally grinding our biology. There's all these interesting little names that you guys have for yourselves. First of all, grinders, we're grinders, we're transhumanists, where there's a lot of self-defining going on there. Well, it's not exactly that we're self-defining.

We're just guys who, we really like technology, and we all grew up with, like you talk about growing up with Hemingway and classic men, and we were all about fighting. We grew up, we were protected and sheltered and grew up with Star Wars and grew up with these stories about robots that could think

and people that couldn't live any longer and had to augment themselves and cyborgs. And, well, cyborgs were really cool. We thought they were really cool. And, you know, I was in my 20s when we hit the year 2000. First thing that happened, New Year's Eve, 2000. And after I got over the shock of nothing hitting the wall, nothing falling out of the sky, I turned to my brother and went, where is my fucking jetpack? And that kind of summed it up.

I felt that way. My buddies felt that way. I didn't realize it, but there were a lot of people who felt that way. And we were all broke, and we didn't know much about science. And somewhere along the line, like I guess in 2006, there was a kid in Arizona who realized that he could start stimulating his nerves with magnets, with magnetic implants. He went to a body model guy and got an implant done in his fingers. It started going from him to a guy in Europe. And then like 2008, there was a lady, Quinn Norton, who wrote for Wired and wrote for some other places.

And she did it. She went out and said it was a bad idea. Don't do it. Other people started doing it. Okay, so let's back up. First of all, explain what you're talking about. You're talking about biohacking. You're talking about doing something to your body that enhances it,

integrating and incorporating technology into your body. And the first guy was the guy in Phoenix that did the Arizona, rather. Was it Phoenix, Arizona? Yeah. That did the magnets in his fingers? Yeah. As far as we know, that's the first person. He's the pioneer.

First document. And what benefit is there of having magnets in your fingers? What did that accomplish for him? Besides making it easier to put your hand on a refrigerator. Easier? I think it's annoying. It would be an annoying moment. You're always getting stuck to things. It doesn't exactly work like that.

These are really tiny magnets. You have magnets in your fingers. Yeah, I got one around there. One around there. Wow. So you implanted magnets in your fingers? Yeah. Why did you do that?

I was drunk. No kidding. Kidding. I found out about this. I was really interested in everything we've been talking about. I ran into a childhood friend of mine who got it done last year. And when he showed me what he was doing with it, I had to do it. What was he doing with it? It gives you the ability when you implant a magnet

in a nerve dense area of your hand, when you're around an electromagnetic field, that magnet vibrates. And so you can feel that. Now there's a property of our brains called neuroplasticity. When you provide a stimulus over a course of time, like about six months, your brain starts adapting to it. It starts building something new. And I was always fascinated even as a child of the idea of having an extra sense, not necessarily like ESP, but just an extra sense or be able to hear a sound that no one's ever heard before,

see a color no one ever seen before. All those stories from don't do drug pamphlets that are like, I can see the music, I can taste sound. That sounded amazing to me. So when I heard about this extra sense,

I jumped at this chance to incorporate that in my body. But what extra sense? The extra sense of using these magnets to detect an electrical field or to vibrate during an electrical field? Is that what you're saying? Yeah. And how would you define an electrical field? Power station? It's an electromagnetic field. So anytime that an electron travels in a straight line,

It's an electromagnetic field. So anytime that an electron travels in a straight line, you have a magnetic field that's coming out kind of in a circle around it. Okay. It radiates around it. Right. If you have a coil, a coil of wire and electrons going through a coil, there'll be kind of like a donut-shaped magnetic field around it. So those sort of fields, they have property of volume and property of frequency. They vibrate at a certain frequency and they're loud or soft. Like a transformer, like an electrical transformer outside of a building that hums?

Absolutely. So if you were near that with your fingers having the magnets in them, what would happen to you? I can feel those. uh when people would ask me at the beginning what it was like to feel this stuff i would describe it like an effervescent effervescent feeling like bubbles it felt like bubbles and it was really interesting to me it felt like bubbles yeah like how does that work um well that's the weirdest explanation for something or description. Oh, it felt like bubbles.

I don't even know what to say. You mean it felt like fizz? Yeah, kind of like fizz. Like Pop-Tarts? Like Pop Rocks, rather? Seafoam, I think, is what he means. Seafoam? I don't know. Froth, like dog froth.

Every person that has the implant uses completely different language to describe it. It's been really fascinating to run into other people with implants and talk about this stuff because we are describing the same phenomena and it's like you're asking me to describe a color that you've never seen before. How am I going to describe squant? It's squant.

Well, is that blue? No, it's squant. Is it purple? No, it's like tasting an orange. Oh, so it's orange. No. Is there any negative repercussions to having these magnets installed in your body? Well, the first time that someone actually said something that made sense as far as a negative thing,

I saw a speech by Quinn Norton where she said, hey, don't do this. This is a bad idea. Hers shattered. What shattered? Her magnetic implant. Shattered. Shattered. Shattered. Okay, so when a magnet receives either a lot of heat or a very strong force, it loses its magnetic pull. But more

importantly, these magnets are made out of rare earth elements. Mine's like a cobalt alloy. Those things aren't really healthy to take inside your body if it shatters. So this is parylene coated. Some people use silicone. Crazier people use hot glue. So it's essentially, it's poison. You're dealing with a toxic element in your body. If it's not covered.

If it's not covered. When it burst in her, she actually consulted a doctor and the doctor was like well here's the thing we could go through all the trouble of pulling it out but it's so tiny and it's so little that's really not going to bother you and so they left it in and over the course of time that magnet pulled itself back together she never got the sense back but it pulled itself back together and it didn't harm her creepy little creature if you guys are interested moving around inside of her fingers how'd she break it what she's slap a cop car or something how would you how did she shatter she didn't say furious masturbation i have no idea. Just furious. Yeah. Possessed.

Eyes rolled back. One shoe on. Screaming like a tiger caught in a barbed wire fence. Hopefully it wasn't. Clank. Yeah, it could be. Could very well be. If I had to guess. But that usually doesn't happen with with the magnets this size i don't

have a vagina so i wouldn't know how could you know what would happen when a woman's in the middle of a furious masturbation session completely on a thick fucking half a pound of meth just slamming it home you never know are you asking how can we imagine what happens? Yeah, how else does a magnet get shattered? That's just as good a guess as any. Yeah, like maybe her orgasm was so strong it emitted a magnetic field. Meshed up, horny as fuck,

maybe on top of an old truck. I'm just coming up with a scenario. These are under your fingers? No, that's a lot larger. But if you guys are curious about... That's a cock magnet. Yeah, there you go. Something for your cock.

That's a need for, you know, just in a cleaner way of expressing this question. Are there any gentlemen, perhaps, that have these magnets put in their nether regions? I have no idea. I think so. It's been spoken about. It's been spoken about. Has it been spoken or has it been written on our website somewhere? It's been spoken about. The closer you can get that to your face, the better. Just pull it right up to your face. Or move your chair a little bit. Yeah, when it comes to stuff like that, people talk about it and then don't do it.

Oh, so they're saying, hey, man, I've been thinking about putting magnets in my cock. Just so you start thinking about their cock. Is that what they're doing? That's what they're doing. And then you're forced. Hey, you know Mike? He's going to put magnets in his cock. You're like, why are we sitting around talking about Mike's cock?

There's a lot of shit to talk about in the world. Well, Mike tricked us. Mike brought up putting magnets in his cock he knows how to reach you guys but okay if you can't just talk about sex that's too easy no he has to talk about what what do you guys like you guys like putting magnets in your body so he starts talking about magnets in his cock but people are absolutely serious this is I figured it. I'm saying it totally serious. This is, I figured it out. I'm like Kojak or some shit.

But people already do that with body modification. Yeah, they do, right? Stuff pierced. I've seen, allegedly, seen some stuff online of just horrible ideas, you know, that someone followed through with. Horrible, like the guy who splits his cock in half? The guy. It's only one guy. That's like saying Bigfoot's only one guy that's like

saying bigfoot's only one thing there's a lot of bigfoot you're saying more than one guy's flayed yeah why do you do that why do you do that it's supposed to feel phenomenal it's supposed doesn't it fall apart when you're having a hot dog that's been sliced and thrown on a grill i hear that it's kind of like shooting like a shotgun. Oh, Jesus Christ. Wow. Jesus Christ. I think you guys are... I think you cut your dick and then you just tell everybody it's awesome. You don't want to admit you're an idiot.

Is this like when they told me, like, we're going to have a punch yourself in the face contest and I had to start first? Exactly. Exactly. Preposterous you guys are are in a way what you're doing is you are turning yourself into a lab rat with the intention of gaining a kind of low level superpower like a really really low on the scale of superpowers the ability to feel emf fields is that what they're called yeah to feel that that's a really low power it's still, you have more superpowers than me. I can't feel that.

You're still ahead of the majority of your species, but there's a risk to this. You're risking your life so that you can feel what it's like to be a refrigerator magnet. Anything that you put in your body, you risk getting sepsis from. There's a risk of sepsis. So yeah, there is a risk body you risk getting sepsis from there's a risk of sepsis so yeah there is a risk what exactly is sepsis that sounds like septic is that related what does it mean it means some sort of infection yeah and basically bacterial infections of any sort so i've had a buddy who's a surgeon who's told me hey don't do this this is a bad idea right good for you you got that done but

don't put anything else in your body because any implant can turn can go bad yeah i got my nose pierced in venice beach when i was 15 and you should have seen that man swell up oh my god it was just so nasty man my my nose got swollen i. I remember pushing against it in front of the mirror and just like the amount of pus, like where you get proud of the amount of pus coming out. You know, that can kill people. They get staffed like that and it winds up eating your whole nose off. Oh, yeah, man. I got lucky.

You should never get your nose pierced. That's a ridiculous thing. And there's no superpower in that. You just look like a dumbass what he said i'm with him um so this is a tangible extra sense though this ability to detect a magnetic field i mean yeah you really can do something that duncan or i can't with your body because of these additions it's's profound. It's something I didn't understand when I got it done. What started out like feeling bubbles.

Now, like, I'll go to Home Depot, and I'll be feeling stuff because it's, oh, my God, so fun to feel stuff. What are you feeling? Mainly magnetic stuff. Some freak hanging around Home Depot, touching all the stuff. Oh, my gosh, it's a drill. What is this guy doing? No, but he's just...

Some guy over there was pantsed out by the lawnmowers. It's a magnetic field. Oh, oh, oh. Hey, what's your favorite? This means you probably have, like, people have favorite flavors. Do you have a favorite machine you like to put your fingers near? I've had situations like I've been around really strong magnets. And when I first was around a really strong magnet, I felt a feeling in the pit of my stomach like dread.

And it made me want to pull away and run away from it. Because you're worried you're just going to get clinked? No, it wasn't a logical thing. You could never get an MRI. It wasn't a logic. Well, you know, the funny thing about that is I'm working out what our sensitivities are. There's been a lot of debate among the people who've had these things on how close we can get to an MRI. There are some people who talk about it

being dangerous because it can it can move around since this is subdermal it's not anchored in any way like uh other subdermal uh body mods are um it could move your magnet a bit one way or another. Someone's got to test it. But there are people who've claimed through the network of people who install these, there are people who've claimed that they've had MRIs done and felt their magnet dance around and that's it. Whoa, but the MRI is a super powerful magnet. Yeah, you're talking about the tiny ones are like 1.5 Teslas. But people go into those things with

sweatshirts with zippers on them. They do? Yeah. I talked to a guy who operates one in a research facility and that's why I'm like, funny you should mention this because... Okay, but that's not standard operational procedure. You're not supposed

to. You're supposed to get down to a robe. i just had one a couple of days ago you take your clothes off that you don't you don't are you sure they weren't just fucking with you are you sure you don't know anything about mri you've got magnets installed in your hand that's crazy man you don't go in there with zippers on what kind of a fucking doctor are these people going to it's a research facility it's not a doctor first joe can i okay what you said someone's died from an mri what is that well i was trying to say is if you have metal in the room and they turn the mri on a child died recently accidentally because they had an oxygen tank in the room and they weren't aware they had it in there so when you turn on the mri the the fucking oxygen tank comes flying into the machine. It's a giant, super powerful magnet.

Right. And it killed him. By the time they could shut it off, he was already dead. I mean, it's an insane amount of pressure you're dealing with. And it's just because someone's dumb enough to have metal in the room. So I really find it hard to believe that any doctor would allow someone to go through an MRI with a zipper on. That's preposterous.

That's just not what they do. So I question who you're talking to. You're talking to crazy people lying about putting magnets in their dicks and wearing zippers into MRIs. You've got to hang out with a higher quality group of humans. A higher quality group of humans. But there is magnetic shielding because people that have pacemakers or other implants. Oh, they put something over you to stop that? Like a suit or something like that?

Yeah. Huh. That's interesting. But you're not doing that with your fingers you just let them tingle if you get in there allegedly don't know that's something you really should be careful about but i think i think i think it's it's something that should be tested i think if we've even even if you're not i'm not advocating that someone with this in their finger go in and test it. But even if you can replicate the consistency of human and put a human flesh, put the magnet in, and then expose it to something like 1.5 Tesla, just to see what happens.

Now, you have this, which you've already done, with the magnets. What's the next level thing? Obviously, everything progresses. So what are people considering doing thing? Obviously, everything progresses. So what are people considering doing now? What are they doing? Well, a lot of people are building devices that interact with the magnets.

So you can think of it as because it interacts with electricity and magnetism, it's kind of like a really low-level input. You can input anything. So if you've got an external device that's measuring, say, the amount of CO2 in the room, you could hook that up through a coil around your finger, around your magnet finger, and have that information transferred into like pulses or how much it vibrates or whatever. So you literally using an external sensor to to give you data any data any data you want and have it transfer that to the magnet and after after some training it becomes intuitive so uh you know some people have done it with mainly sonar and thermal, like a thermal laser. Now, I know that people have talked about the ultimate future of incorporating technology in the human body

is the ability to take the mind and download its consciousness somewhere into an artificial creation. But somewhere along the line, there's probably going to be some steps, right? artificial creation but somewhere along the line there's probably going to be some steps right and you guys are kind of taking like one of these steps like by putting magnets in your body when do you think you're going to see someone who puts a cell phone in their body is that coming is it going to be like a neural interface that allows you to get online with wi-fi well we're somewhere towards that that's something else we're working on. So our CTO, his dream, the thing that brought us all together, wasn't magnets. That was ancillary. It was love, right? We all kind of knew each other, and we all had this love of the future, and we all kind of were told to sit back and let Motorola take care of it, and none of us wanted to deal with that.

But he wanted to build something that he believed that we have the ability to do this stuff ourselves. We don't have to wait for some big company to do it. We can do it cheap. We can do it ourselves, design it ourselves. And since we know people who can install magnets under our skin, why not an implant? Why not something? Well, the goal was to have something.

So basically what it does is it's a rose compass that electrically stimulates you. It's probably here on your calf, and it's always pointing north so that you always have an intuitive sense of where north is. Now, if you've got the chip talking to some external thing, you could hook it up to a map system like Google Maps and be like, yo, take me home, and then you have an intuitive sense of where home is always.

What? Wait a minute. What? Hold on. Wait, back that up. You have a compass installed in your body, and how does it run? It just runs on the magnetism that's in the compass? It's all mechanical? There's no electronics involved, right? It can be powered wirelessly.

So it's got like a wireless coil on it. So it's powered somehow by an external? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, and so you can like hover it over it that's that's what the the dream is and what is the method of communication to the mind that explains where Newark North is or how to get so it's in the same way that you're using a really simple system in terms of the magnet you're not using any magic it's just vibrating for this it's just applying a very very small amount of electricity enough that you can there's there's a sensation so it's not like blaring and it's not shocking you but there is a sensation is this completely theoretical the idea

of being able to find your way home or is there any we we have uh parts of it parts of it built and actually when we came together and we had that idea, we said, okay, this thing has way too many features, so what we're going to do is we're going to build an implant that's kind of a halfway step to there, so that we build the ground towards it. And that's actually this thing here. And so what this thing does is it actually – it's a quantified self health metric.

And this is just going to take data. You can check this out. This takes medical data and sends it to your phone. So if you can imagine having maybe six months' worth of your medical data, and it's your data. It's not anyone else's data. Your data. And you can do whatever with it. And so we wanted to kind of do a halfway project so that we get familiar with implant technology and then move towards really cool shit.

I understand the idea of a compass i understand that you could power it somehow but what i don't understand is how the compass is communicating with your mind so in the in the same way that uh the nervous system is is communicating with your mind it's not uh it's not sending it wirelessly to your brain. There are things in your body that's communicating to your nervous system that then goes to your mind. Right. And so you're literally making a new mini organ

or another part of your body that interfaces with your nervous system through electricity and then – You're just saying it's like a vibration or something. It's like a low-level pulse or something, right? Yeah, it's a low-level pulse. Yeah, I understand that. I understand that you would get a sensation, but I don't understand how it could be directional. I don't see the mechanism for that.

Well, it's a rose compass, right? What does a rose compass mean? It's a – so it's got – Like a clock. Yeah, it's got north clock yeah it's got uh north south east west and then like northwest oh that's called a rose compass yeah okay yeah so it's a compass yeah and yeah it's it's a compass okay and so uh let's say let's say i'm facing north the stimulation will be going this way right but if i if i turn it's going to start so start stimulating it's directional in that

wherever the north is it gives a signal pointing where the arrow goes yeah so the arrow it not just doesn't just act as a beacon it's somehow or another like sends a charge off in that direction yeah and then it becomes intuitive once you start determining what that signal means. Like it becomes a new thing, sort of like sound, like you hear sound over here and you know it's coming in that direction. That's crazy. It's intuitive in the sense that like I would be working with some of the guys in the lab and, you know, they've got two or three implants. And they would say leave the soldering iron on and they'd go to reach to grab something and just them feeling this the the intensity of the soldering iron would make them pull back

right and so it's not like they're like oh shit that that might kill me let me pull back it's more like it's more like every time you reach over here something screams at you or or something like pokes you it's like people who are allergic to cats. If you're around a cat, you know, that's a kind of superpower. A person who's allergic to cats can walk into a house and be like, you have cats, right? You have cats. They can sense the cat because they start sneezing

and coughing. Especially if you're dirty and you don't clean your house. Generally, people who have cats... Pretty filthy. When you walk into a house and you get that first waft of the cat litter box mixing it with old bananas so nice you have a box of shit in your house yeah nice dirty box of shit and a filthy witch animal want peering out at you from the wall ready to smother your baby while it's sleeping suck the breath right out are you guys gonna destroy cats that's awesome um i think this people like you make me love existing today because the idea that

there are human beings at this very moment and i picture you in a basement in in basements with straight razors shaking cutting themselves open and just putting chips inside of their body. No, they go to doctors and have all this done, man. Come on, dude. We're in a fantasy. We're strapped in their mouth. Bite down on a twig. You guys are both right.

You're both kind of right. See, yeah, you don't all go to a doctor. What doctor do you guys go to? I know a doctor. What doctor do you go to? What doctor do you guys go to? I know a doctor. Dr. Evil. Dr. Evil. And I imagine that before you guys put the magnets in, you're snorting Oxycontin or like, you're definitely on painkillers, right?

Well, I got my implant done. I got it done with no pain meds. And, oh my gosh, it was a rush. I never had that much. That's a new meme. Dude is standing there with a razor blade, and the photo says, I got it done without painkillers, and, oh, my gosh, what a rush. I don't.

It was something else. The amount of endorphins you got, it's trauma. It's trauma. Your body is going through trauma, and your body releases all that endorphins all at once. You definitely don't remember the fact that you just got hurt. You go into shock. I don't advocate people doing this. I don't advocate people opening themselves up at all.

That's not going to stop anybody. It's too late. Right now there's already 700 teens with X-Acto knives putting their dad's wristwatch... Bandana in mouth, tugging. Kids, if you're watching this, seriously, don't. It never ends well. Someone already tried it and they're kind of fucked up because of it. Who tried what? Tried what? So one of the people that pioneered this, this lady out in Scotland called Leps Anonym,

she did this talk called Cybernetics for the Masses, where she advocating, you know, implants. And she did it herself. She sterilized, what did she use? She used vodka. She used vodka and hot glue to coat the magnets. She – in her speech, she told everyone, hey, I don't care how hardcore you think you are. Get a spotter because you will pass out. And that to me – She also used a vegetable peeler.

Yeah. That to me is not DIY cybernetics. That's irresponsible. That's a crazy bitch. I can tell you that when you tell me her name. You don't leave it home with your keys. I've seen that speech wept in and I emailed her directly after the speech because I wanted to get her on my podcast. But she, first of all, I didn't know she was a she because she's androgynous.

You can't really tell. But she looks like she fell out of a philip k dick novel like she is uh you a really fascinating being like it's a really curious being and she seems kind of nonchalant about what she's doing and it reminds me of you guys a little bit because you guys seem to be brushing off the fact that what you're doing can make it so that in 20 years you are just basically a trembling drink machine. Somebody could put a cocktail in your hand and mix it up because you have some kind of severe neurological damage from the weird chemicals in your magnets going into your brains.

It could be true. You're right. You're right. Totally right. We probably would be dealing with something worse than a Parkinson's-like state. Can you get up on the mic, man? Sorry. That's okay.

You're right. There are risks. When Left gave that speech, she gave it with the intent that people out there would see her process and go, oh my God, you could do it so much better. You could do it so much safer. And when people are talking about what grinding is about and why it's called grinding that's part of part of the spirit of being a grinder is being open about your processes because you're hoping that someone will look at your processes and go oh yeah i see what you did i see how you made it better i can make it even better and even more why why grinder um so it it originates from a comic book called Dr. Sleepless.

And there's a... God, you guys are dorks. No, they're not dorks. It's awesome. I want to be a Grindr. It's not a bad thing, but you guys are dorks. And so there's a... You're not dorks.

It's not a bad thing. I'm a dork too. These are pioneers. You're a dork too. How dare you? You're a dork. I guess I am a dork. You read Walking Dead comic books. You're a dork. it's not a bad thing i'm a dork too these are pioneers you're a dork too how dare you you're a dork i guess i am a dork is it right now you read walking dead comic books you're a dork oh man that's and you tell me i have to read them dude you gotta read them he's a dork that is not

wrong with it man it's not wrong being a dork don't be scared of being a dork okay well fine i'm a dork too i'd rather be a dork with magnets under my fingers i'm not i'm gonna be a dork i'd like to be a dork with a low it's not bad to be a dork with magnets under my fingers than not. If I'm going to be a dork, I'd like to be a dork with a low level. It's not bad to be a dork, but the fact that you guys call yourself grinders out of a comic book, that's clearly pretty dorky. Yeah, it is. But it's not bad. See, embrace being a dork. I think the term dork is a dorky term.

No, it's an awesome term, and that's what we were when we were out there looking for Bigfoot. We were two dorks. You're right. We were two dorks looking for Bigfoot. By the way, having the time of our lives with fellow dorks, there's nothing wrong with being a dork. No disrespect intended. No disrespect.

You're not taking yourself that seriously. You're naming your whole group after comic books. There's nothing wrong with that. A part of what we do is using – we're still using the scientific method. We're not just like – Sure you are. Well, what we're doing is we're putting our method out there for it to be criticized so that it's safe in our community. Right.

Right. And it's not cut yourself open with vegetable peelers, and it's not have the method be held up by the FDA for 50 years. It's about knowing what the risks are as an individual and deciding whether to take it or not. Now, that piece of plastic, silicon, whatever it is, what is that exactly made out of that you showed me earlier, the chip? Oh, that's a regular circuit board. There's all sorts of bad shit in there. Yeah. What is it made out of? Do you know?

Fiberglass, copper, metal, plastics. Where would you put that? Inside a silicone shape. There's a bioproofing process. Like a sheath? Like a condom, silicone condom sort of a thing? More like a... Something more secure.

You take a CNC, you make a CNC mold reverse. So this is an unpopulated board because all of our regular prototypes are being tested. On who? For functionality. Yeah, like heating it, crushing it, exposing it to all sorts of crazy things. Once we're confident that we have something that can handle the stresses

that we think someone who would have something in it for a year, which is our goal, like get it inside someone for a year and take it out, then we're testing bioproofing. Bioproofing is doing a pressure injected silicone mold oh wow that just sounds like it would hurt do you guys have in your that's not inside you

what what i want to know though is like what part of the body would you install this thing well tim's been talking about the forearm. Why the forearm? Because it would be cool to look down at your arm and see LEDs lighting up underneath your skin. So that's part of it. You guys aren't just pioneers trying to redefine humanity. You just want to have shining lights under your skin. And want to capture some dork pussy. Let's be honest. I think that captures many different types of. We did want our jetpack. Many different types of pussy.

This is our jetpack. I bet, man. If you're a super baller in the Grindr community, if you walk around with a glowing implant under your arm. Yeah. Yeah. Do you guys have in your community somebody who you know will put anything under their skin? Like somebody who walks around jangling with metal pieces and lights? Is there a person who's got the most implants? I don know I don't I don't think we've reached there yet

what's the most incredible like the most extreme implant that you're aware of maybe rich yeah probably fucking rich rich rich so he's got he's got uh he's got uh two magnet implants in his finger and he actually has um he has a coil like a huge coil that he uses to uh to be able to like hear radio stations and all sorts of craziness they're basically implanted earphones wait a minute he has so he has magnets on his fingers ears in his ears his ears he has magnets yeah yeah so he's magnets his fingers in his ears is that what you said yeah he's got um he's got like two in his ears fucking ears man that's scary yeah yeah they'll be letting the dude operate on your ears he's intense magnets and so what's the coil? The coil is like any coil.

It's stimulating these magnets, makes a magnet vibrate. So he hooked up this coil to a little amplifier, and that amplifier is sending sound through it. Wow. Like your standard speaker, right? Right. He sends sound through a speaker coil, makes a magnet jump back, or makes a magnet force a coil back and forth. Yeah. And you make sound so he's using this uh sending electromagnetic waves to uh the magnets in his ears his magnets dance around and they give him sound so he was able to uh use a bluetooth uh connection to his

phone to hear his phone through his invisible earphones. That's insane. Yeah. So, yeah, it sounds really crazy and dangerous, but I think there's – we're also trying to establish a precedent that we want – like we – no matter what organization pops up, there's going to be cyborgs in the future. And I think that – Strong words. I I think that's what we're moving towards. And I think that we want to move to a future where people are openly experimenting with

themselves instead of having to go to one source, you know, like company X to get their implants. I think there's a sort of liberation that you have by either making your own implant or knowing what it was made of, who coded it, what the code is, and all sorts of stuff. So in our community

we share all of the information. There is no weird outside control because everyone knows how it was built. If you don't like how it was built, you can change it. Aren't you already a cyborg if you wear glasses? Isn't that already an incorporation of technology into the human body?

I try to avoid the word cyborg because the moment that people start saying cyborg, everyone's like, you're not a cyborg! Cyborgs are this! Doesn't that mean, look, someone made with a machine these things sitting on your face. And that's how you see better. And without those, you wouldn't see so good.

I thought a cyborg, it means that it's part of you now. You can't take it off. Is that what it is? It's permanently in you. Yeah, you've merged with the machine. Hearing implants, those are first steps. Yeah. Hearing aids.

But you know what else is crazy and dangerous learning to build an airplane like think of the wright brothers way back when when they were telling people we're going to try to make a device that makes us fly like birds frightened terrified people like are you out of your mind you're gonna fall you're just gonna fall to your death and it's true there's an implicit risk whenever you're trying to create some new invention and if you wait for the fda if we sit around and wait for apple or for microsoft to get this stuff past it is going to be 50 years 100 years because we need you guys to turn it a few of you are gonna have to turn into the toxic avenger a few of you are it's true man you need it because they've made themselves guinea pigs for the sake of our are it's true man you need it because they've made themselves guinea

pigs for the sake of our species it's well i think they did it because they're enjoying it well it's worse than a 50 year wait and what's what's bad about it microphone what's bad about it thank you no problem uh what's bad about it is the fact that there are people who can't afford what an implant would cost. And like with cell phones, I saw cell phones be a tool of people who had tons of money. And I saw that with every other technology. And when you're talking about modifying your body in the ways that we're talking about it, and it seems like it has so much potential to be a useful tool for people, to make that something that's only available to people with large amounts of capital seems like wrong.

I don't want to live in that. Kurzweil has already addressed this quite accurately when he talks about technology being applied in the cell phone world. He's like, initially, it was just a privileged few. He goes, now, like 70 plus percent of the population on the planet has cell phones. You can go to the jungles of Africa, you find people who have cell phones. People have cell phones everywhere you look. So it starts off like it's really expensive. But if it proves to be effective, it becomes accessible to almost everyone. Which is true.

Which is true, but if you look at waves of technology and the evolution of technology, the people that get it first get to dictate how the technology is used and they get to dictate the political landscape. So my – How so? So for example, you look at the – Cell phone users don't get to dictate the political landscape of cell phones. So that's the one example that we use. Yeah, but it's not cell phone producers. You're talking about people who buy them. You're talking about people who can afford to use them.

No, they're saying that when a cell phone is invented, when Verizon builds a cell phone, they get into an agreement with the NSA and there's code inside your cell phone that makes it so it's tracking you. Imagine that technology applied to some kind of implant. Imagine if they came up with some neural prosthetic where, you know, the neural prosthetic that you can attach to your hippocampus that allows you to record your memories. Imagine if the government invents that and has some secret code in it that can shut off your brain.

Okay, but that's not even what they were talking about. They were talking about privileged people who have access to this power. We were talking about propriety. Propriety. Propriety. Propriety. Yeah, owning, ownership. So like with cell phones, you have chips that are really good at decoding video.

Really, really good at it. Right. And they're really tiny. And you know, they're also kind of cheap, but they're not open for everyone to use. So when you have something like the Raspberry Pi come along, they have to beg. What's a Raspberry Pi?

It's a handheld computer. It's $35. It does everything regular. Oh yeah, it's crazy. Like on Reddit, it always pops up with some new thing, the Raspberry. It's just a super cheap operating system. It's a super cheap computer. It's a super cheap computer. It's about's a computer. It's a super cheap computer.

It's about the size of a credit card. It does everything that computers should do. So you can get on the net. You can use it to do... On a credit card? It's credit card palm-sized. It's palm-sized. It's a screen as well?

No, you need a screen, keyboard, whatever interfaces. It's like the box. The CPU, the whole deal, the box itself. Wow, it's credit card sized. They had to make deals with non-disclosure agreements and make all sorts of deals to attain the technology for their

cell phone parts that they're using in there. That's not open to everyone. In that same way, we believe that's not open to everyone so you know in that same way we believe that people create better when they get the keys to the candy store and they can actually experiment with all the parts that are being used and being developed as much as possible we want to encourage that playing playing that's interesting but what i was concerned with more was not the the people people that are going to profit or not profit from creating these things. I was talking about people getting access to the technology itself, and it seems like that's inevitable.

It seems like if it's effective for rich people, it will eventually trickle down to the always getting first access, they can always determine how it's used. And by the time the technology is democratized to a point where first advantage doesn't matter, then there's something else because they're sitting on the capital from the last thing that came along. So you've got this perpetual cycle of, well, we're making it first, so we always get to dictate the terms of which this thing, the legal and technical terms by which this thing or this type of thing. Right, but isn't that what ingenuity is all about? Isn't that why people spend so much money on companies to try to develop products? Isn't that sort of the motivation? The motivation is to capture the marketplace and to be able to sell this incredible thing that they've created. So you're saying it should be locked down?

No, no, no. I'm saying it shouldn't be locked down. But I'm saying, I meant locked down as in once something is created, basically it's available to everyone. It shouldn't be available just to this one person that created it. Yeah, I think so.

And I think that's the most ethical way to do it in this case because when you're talking about augmenting humans, you're talking about giving them additional information about the world. And this is our most powerful tool ever. And so when you're talking about supercharging this, you're giving individuals a great advantage over others. You're giving individuals a great advantage over others. And with any other technology, you know there's abuses. If you look at nuclear technology, right, the Soviet Union and the United States got to dictate foreign policy for how many years? Because they had that and other countries didn't. And I personally think that that's the scale of power we're talking about. When you're saying like neural implants and all of these really powerful devices, I think that the first people that get it get to dictate how everyone else plays.

So you're essentially – what you're saying is that these new technologies are going to be so powerful that once people get control of them, they'll literally be able to enslave great groups of people who don't have them. They'll have power over them. They'll have advantage over them. And they'll decide, or could decide, to use that advantage to control, monopolize the use of these technologies, monopolize the use of these human improvements,

these technological human improvements, and they'll just hoard them all themselves. Yeah, and not in any – But has anybody ever done that with anything? Technology? Has anybody hoarded technology ever for themselves? It seems like if you can sell it, people sell it. Well, it never lasts long, but what I'm talking about are the social ramifications

of people trying to hold on to that for whatever. Because, for example, everyone, every army today uses guns. But, we're still reeling from the cultural effects of one group of people having guns and another group of people not having guns. We're still reeling from countries hating each other and

ethnic tension and whatever. So, it's not so much about the technology. It's about this is what happens when you try to lock it down. Eventually it's going to spread, but you're causing damage by trying to lock it down. That seems to be – I don't know. It's a funny argument. It's an interesting argument, and it gets into a social engineering or socialism point of view where you got to go,

well, how do you decide to distribute technology then? How does it handle? There are companies like Adafruit, SparkFun, they're open source and they still make money. Well, it certainly is. I mean, that's if any place embraces open sources, the internet and technology and, you know, of course, Linux and Unix. There's always been a whole open source community online. But to dictate that that's mandatory, that's where things get sketchy. You know what I'm saying? I'm not saying that I don't want a future where corporations don't sell this.

I want people to have options. I totally understand what you're saying, but it goes against every other way we manage innovation. The way we manage innovation is people get copyrights and trademarks and you create something and that becomes you and then you own that and then you can sell it or license it out to other people. What you're essentially saying is that when it comes to a human benefit, now no longer do you have the option. Now you're going to distribute it freely to everybody. And I say like you're regulating like in a way that has never been regulated before. And that's a socialist idea. And it's interesting.

It's debatable. Communist cyborg. It's interesting and it's debatable. But what you're talking about is sort of a mandatory type of a thing. Well, I don't want to say, hey, Google, you have to make this implant open source. What I'm saying is I want a future where you can either get Corporation X

or you can go to the open source community B. But isn't that inevitable? I mean, that's what you have with cell phones. You can buy an Android phone or you can buy an Apple phone or you can buy some no-name phone. I mean, eventually, if something is worth something, people sell it to the point where you're going to have leaders in the marketplace. But once the public has access, those leaders are based on the market itself. They're based on what people buy, what they like, what they enjoy.

You can't monopolize. If everyone's selling a similar product and one person's better, that's the one that succeeds. And that's sort of where we're at because of the fact that we don't just say when something comes along, like, hey, everybody has access to this. Fuck patents. Fuck trademarks. That's literally against the way innovation has spawned human beings to this point in the first place. But I think there's other motivations than capital. I think that the motivation in this kind of technology is so much bigger than money.

What you're talking about is achieving the ability with technology to produce emotions or to create psychic states. That is an amazing thing, and that's an amazingly powerful thing. So is calling people. Yeah, but you know what I'd rather have an orgasm helmet than a cell phone but it's not either or well it's not

either or what I'm saying is cell phones didn't get socialized and this technology shouldn't either well I don't think they're saying it should or shouldn't be socialized I'm just they're trying to make an open source version of this stuff I don't think Motorola is going to do that for us I don think that Motorola is going to do that for us. I don't think they're going to do that for us.

Who the fuck knows what they're doing? Who knows? But what I'm saying is if you make it, you shouldn't be entitled to distribute it to everybody. If you want to, but you shouldn't be forced to distribute it to everybody. I want a future of options. And in terms of the technology coming out, I want the open source and the closed source to come out at the same time because any lag time between the closed source and the open source, again, it starts to produce problems. as to what they're going to get. And I think that we've already seen problems with technologies being pigeonholed so that we can't not have a smartphone, but we know the fuckery that's going on with smartphones.

And so what do you do? Well, there's a lot of problems with smartphones. If you really want to get to the bottom of it, the real problem is they're all based on conflict minerals. The real problem with smartphones is that you follow every smartphone down to its source, and you've got a little kid in Africa with a stick knocking rocks out of the dirt. And that's real.

And they can't fix that yet. They really can't. They don't know what to do yet. So they need these conflict minerals, and they're not available in very many spots in the world. And the places where they can get them the cheapest, that's where they get them. And that's why you have civil war in the Congo. That's why you have people fighting over these resources.

So you've got a real problem besides the innovation. You've got a real problem in the morality of actually owning a cell phone. Because everyone who owns a cell phone is a piece of shit. If you really get down to the core of it. I mean, there's no way around it. I think this is an unbelievably fascinating subject. And I think it's inevitable that we have this sort of discussion in this argument. And I think what we really need is the idea of capitalism or competition merged with morality and ethics and humanity.

And instead, what we usually have is he who gets to the top of the mountain, kicks everybody in the face that's trying to get up. And instead of like pulling people up with them and humanity benefiting and sharing something like that in an open source manner because you think it's the right thing to do, instead of mandating it, I think it almost should be a part of success itself. Success itself sort of generates altruism. It generates happiness. It generates happiness. It generates generosity. It should. It's like once you have some and you care about others, you should give. You should help. You should boost them up. And we don't have that attitude in this country, unfortunately. We have this ultra-competitive attitude which has spawned so much innovation

because of it. But along the way, it's also made a bunch of fucking assholes. A bunch of heartless assholes just caught up in the hunt. Don't you guys think that it's eventually going to be impossible to keep anything private? Yes. It's like to even – so we're entering into a future where there's really not going to be such a thing as secrets. We're entering into a future where everything will eventually be leaked in some way. Everything will – Well, I'll tell you one better. I don't think money is going to be such a thing as secrets. We're entering into a future where everything will eventually be leaked in some way. Everything will either- Well, I'll call you one better.

I don't think money's going to be real anymore. I think we're going to get to a point where there's not going to be, ones and zeros are not going to cut it as far as you have this and he doesn't have that. I really believe that we're going to get to some weird place where just by nature of the progression of technology itself, the dissolving of boundaries, the access to information, ones and zeros are all you have when it comes to money. Money is just information.

It's going to get to a point where the idea, the paradigm that we operate under, we think it's important. I keep my stuff, you keep your stuff, I pay for this, you pay for that. It doesn't exist anywhere else in nature. We've decided that this is normal. We're going to get to a point in time where you're not going to be able to lock it down anymore you're not going to be able to hold on to money it's not going to mean anything we're going to have to decide what the fuck to do with all the different shaped houses we're going to have to

decide who gets the food but you're it's not going to be real anymore it's gonna it's gonna merge into some next level shit and that's the future of humanity i so too, but then I hope people don't get lazy as fuck because of that. One of the reasons why people have done so well, which is, it's also arguable whether or not doing so well is a good thing, but one of the reasons

is that we've needed to succeed in order to survive. I don't, no, I think, how the fuck do you think we got out of caves? How do you think we didn't get killed off like Neanderthal? How do you think we didn't become food for the prey? We're weak and slow.

Just because we innovated and we pushed forth and we got the fuck away from all the things that are dangerous. We locked up cities. We invented guns. We did a lot of shit in order to make innovation possible. Because if you go to places on the earth like the Amazon or Africa, there's no fucking innovation. You're wearing a piece of skin over your dick and you're looking for something to eat. And that's what you do every day.

You get up in the morning early and you go look for something to eat because if you don't, you die. My favorite example is when we started growing crops, right? Before, most of a human's time was spent looking for food, right? You didn't have time to ask, you know, mom, what is that? Because you were fucking either hunting something or running away from something. That was just about your entire life.

When you are now growing food, you now have a wide space in your day where you're not doing anything. Even entire seasons where you've got food stored up. So what do you do? You start asking questions. You start making art. You start writing entire seasons where you've got food stored up so what do you do you start asking questions you start making art start writing things down because you've got time now i think that when i think technology should be about liberating people to do what they want this i'm sorry to cut you off but what you're saying this to me is one of the great uh naive ideas of transhuman, which is the notion that if you remove from human beings the need for something, in other words, because the ultimate goal of

transhumanism, I think, is to shrink down the moment between what you can think you want and the moment of having it to nothing, so that you instantaneously have something, whether it's by neurologically stimulating your brain in a way that's exactly identical to reality so you can experience any feeling state that you want, or whether it's using matter assimilators to build something that you've contemplated. And all of humanity has been based on overcoming the obstacle between those two things. But in overcoming the obstacle you gain wisdom when you're learning how to like play piano you don't just get to learn how to play piano you get to learn the discipline of years and years of working to play piano and suddenly we can

download into someone's mind how to play piano if we remove that discipline then what joe's saying is you end up with slugs but i i think that no matter how hard a dog tries, it can never learn calculus. There's just an upper limit. You just – no matter – it can study forever and it just – it won't happen. And so I think that there are things that we just – as humans, we just – no matter how hard we try, there's an upper limit. And so when you begin, let's say, downloading information, there's some things you'll get easy, but there are other things that no one's ever discovered that you now have to discover. New ways to play that have never been even thought about ever.

So I think that when you augment, when you make yourself more intelligent, more capable, now you don't have to do hard work to do what humans can do, but you still have to do hard work to do whatever. If I can explain it in layman's terms, this is a technological version of mo' money, mo' problems. Exactly. That's what it is. Yes.

You don't get it. You just make your problems far more complex. Like people thought, you know what? Once human beings have supermarkets and you just go with a credit card, you don't even have to bring around a bag of gold, then no one's going to be depressed. Turns out, people are more depressed. They're sad.

They're looking for meaning. They're not hunting and gathering their food. They're missing all those rewards that are built into the human genome. They don't get them anymore. So what do they do? They take Prozac and they drive fast and they watch stupid movies. Yeah, well, can I put it in? Mo' money, mo' problems.

Let me put it in non-layman's Burning Man terms. If you take the Tibetan Book of the Dead, one of the bardos or one of the hells in the Tibetan Book of the Dead is called the hell of hungry ghosts. in the Tibetan Book of the Dead is called the Hell of Hungry Ghosts. And what this hell is, is these beings living in this weird place have this infinite appetite and anything they can think of to eat immediately appears in front of them. So they have the combination of always being hungry mixed in with being able to instantaneously create any food that they want. And that creates a hell state where all they're doing is feeding and eating

to try to quench this endless human appetite. Now, obviously, we're really far away. That's probably coming, though. I mean, if you wanted to think of something that someone would invent, that's without doubt inside the realm of possibility. We already have boner pills for old dudes on their death pill, on their deathbed. They chomped on a couple of pills and they got a zombie cock. We already have that. You're telling me they're not going to have something where it just keeps your hunger going?

You never get satisfied. You'll be hungry all the time. What's your favorite thing to do? Isn't it eat? Mine too! Wouldn't it be great if you were hungry always? And you could just be a professional eater all day. Without a doubt.

That's how we design fast food already. Think about what people have done to their lips. People would do that. People have blown up their lips, putting magnets in their fingers. No offense. They would definitely do that. I think that if that's something negative about the human condition, if we have that technology at some point, then we would also have the technology to change it. And that's another discussion, whether we should get rid of the hedonic treadmill.

Well, I'm not even sure that it's a negative. I'm just – it's almost like a pattern. I mean I think whatever it took to get humans to this point in history, whatever it took to get us to what we are now, it's an incredible process. I mean from whatever we were, from multi-celled organisms onto this thing with laptops, that process is insane. And the idea that that process just changes because we add a chip. No, there's going to be like a growing phase, and then it's going to become something new. Just like it became this. If this is unrecognizable to some crazy nanotaur 50 000

years ago and it's what we will be 50 000 years from now it's probably unrecognizable to us yeah and whether it happens slowly or quickly what has happened in our lifetime man that the idea of of the internet crept up on us so damn quick that we all just accept it as a fact. Whereas if you brought any other time in history, it's the most insane piece of sorcery and magic the world has ever known. Just 20 years ago, it would have been insane. Fuck conjuring a dragon. The idea that you could have a little glass box in your pocket that answers all your questions. It's amazing.

You could send messages, including video, from people to people all around the world. It's amazing. You can send messages, including video, to people all around the world. It's insane. Everything about it is insane. And it's just a part of our accepted everyday life. Slowly happen, slowly or quickly, whether it's big, you know, slowly. We think of it slowly. In the course of human history,

it's a massive burst of innovation. But in our lifetimes, it's been 10, 20 years, and then boom, it's all here. But the idea that you're going to stop at that, you know, or that we should even resist the next level, it seems pretty silly. I just – you can't resist it. You can't stop it. It's just – it's interesting to sit around and go, what the hell is it going to be? Yeah.

That's where it gets weird. Yeah, and we don't know. No. I don't think that primitive man could have put a person on the moon if they were still worrying about catching that pig. No, you're absolutely right. And whatever aspirations we'll have in 10,000 years, we won't get to that if we don't do certain things. And I think that a part of humanity that I think we should keep is our need to explore and understand. I think that if we're still worrying about

getting cancer at 60, we're not going to get there. I think it's inevitable that we still keep exploring. That's why we're here. It's a whole part of the whole thing. There's no getting around that. You've got a video to show us?

Well, we've got something queued up with Tim when our buddy, our CTO, got his magnets installed. He got it on video. Would you like to check it out? Okay, yeah. I want to definitely see that. Slap that up. Oh, Jesus, Tim. This is Tim?

Ah, shit. This is Tim? This is Tim. Oh, my God. What's with the sound? This is Tim. Oh, my God. Holy shit. What's with the sound? Don't know. What's that sound?

Hold on. Pause that. Pause that. Why does that sound like that? I don't know. What kind of soundtrack is on that? That's so stupid. Kill the sound.

Just play that. Because obviously there's something going on behind it. It might even be a movie. Wow. Who's the guy doing the surgery? Some asshole. They found even be a movie. Wow. Who's the guy doing the surgery? Some asshole. They found him at Home Depot. They were running around touching lawnmowers.

He's like, hey, I can do that for you. He's someone who does tattoo work and he specializes in doing subdermal stuff. Meanwhile, he has shitty tattoos. Never trust a tattoo artist with shitty tattoos. There's a thing called laser tattoo removal, son. Look into it. Never trust a tattoo artist with shitty tattoos there's a thing called a laser tattoo removal son look into it never trust a surgeon with shitty tattoos

especially on his face test surgeons with tattoos on their face boy avoid you're gonna go under in 10 9 okay so this guy is cutting and he's inserting this magnet into this dude's fingertip. It's a very, very, very tiny magnet. Yeah. How would you describe it? It looks like a BB that's been split into, like, sixes, right? That's how small it looks.

It's about two millimeters wide. It's a little disk. Oh, that's bigger than I thought. Maybe a little less than two millimeters. Because that looks really tiny. Maybe it's just a perspective of this video, but that looks well under a millimeter. What's the charge for this procedure?

It's free. That's crazy. Absolutely. 100% free. Fucks you up. Stick shit in your fingertips and laugh at you. It depends on who you get that stuff done from, but it'd be pretty reasonable.

It'd be a bargain price anywhere between $75 and $150, just like most subdermal body mods. What is – when you're talking about the future, when you guys sit around and you bring up what's on the horizon, what's like the big theoretical on the horizon? Does it have anything to do with like the kind of technology that we see in Google Glass being incorporated in like maybe a neural sort of a thing? So there was a paper put out a few months ago about connecting two minds of rodents. And so there was one rodent, if I'm not mistaken, in Virginia, and there was another rodent somewhere in Brazil. And they put this chip into the brains of these two mice and put them through an obstacle course. And with a roughly 60% to 70% crossover rate, the other mouse actually learned the obstacle course of the other mouse it was connected to do you know that's been done without chips though rupert sheldrake wrote a whole book

about it it's called the the morphic field and morphic residents and he wrote a book about uh dogs knowing when their owners are coming home right and uh people being able to tell when people look at the back of their heads and it's a fascinating sort of a theory. But he showed that – I don't know if it's been verified 100 percent. But I know he wrote that he showed that if you teach a rat in one place a maze, that rat somewhere else, another part of the world, will learn that similar maze or that same maze quicker, statistically quicker. Right. They've also shown that chimpanzees, once they started inventing things to do with tools,

chimpanzees, they've demonstrated. Like an orangutan in Africa learned how to spearfish by watching people do it. There's a picture of this thing doing it, and it's a motherfucker. It's the craziest thing ever. Well, other orangutans started doing it too. Once they start learning things, it's almost like it's in the ether.

It's very strange. Yeah, this is orangutans separated geographically. It's not like they could observe each other. Well, I don't know about orangutans, but the mice definitely separated geographically. Yeah, that's what's odd about it. But you know what I think, man? I don't think it's that they're learning. They learn it and then it travels somehow through

space i think the evolution sort of grows through us do you know what i mean like it's our it's it's something that's growing through humanity as are these new innovations so it's not as though one orangutan figured it out and sent out a signal it's as though this was just a new phase that was coming through this form of that's very possible but the orangutan initially i i i've confused these two stories pretty pretty badly but the uh the mice learned in separate parts of the world separate parts of they weren't connected whether it's a thousand miles or a hundred miles whatever it was but the orangutan were watching people the orangutan started imitating people So they did directly imitate human beings.

But if you really stop and think about when human beings used to be essentially very similar to orangutans, it was probably only like a couple of million years ago. That seems like a long time to us, but in the span of the universe, that ain't shit. So the idea that a chimp could eventually, if they kept moving along and slowly innovating and changing and finding magic mushrooms and learning how to make fires with rocks they could eventually become some kind of a human thing i mean we didn't used to be people that's a fact i mean pretty much established it's not like all of a sudden we popped up in this form you know figuring out holy shit we got to get away from leopards. We became this, slowly and steadily.

It's just the time frame for us is so bizarre to wrap our heads around with an 80-plus year lifespan to try to understand what a 10 million year period of development is. We can't get our head into that. We don't know what that means. And 10 million years from now with this stuff, when it gets to that weird exponential technology thing that's going on right now, we're going to be unrecognizable 100 years from now. Sure.

Well, that's what I feel like Lucas is getting at by creating an actual – a pathway between two minds or between many minds that we can control using principles we already understand. minds that we can control using principles we already understand i don't know intuition the way i know the way an electron's going to travel i know the way an electron's going to travel i don't i don't get intuition that way so if we can create chips where i can have something in the back of my head and i go like this and lucas is like stop scratching your arm because i feel it yeah like that's that's like that's an exponential touching your butt how about that you're sitting around your house all of a sudden no lucas stop it no you're on a date you're trying to keep it together you could get hacked with that kind of technology. Somebody could hack into you.

That seems inevitable. Just like you get – there's like someone hacked Twitter today and I must have got a thousand – I'm not bullshitting. A thousand fake tweets about diet and exercise. Oh, wow. I look so good for summer because I started doing this. Like those bots. Like a bot got through and just infected Twitter.

I think the benefit of having a bunch of people develop their own technologies you're all infected together well no if you're developing your own technologies for your own implants there's some sort of there's some sort of level of of security like some people use max because hey max don't get viruses the way pcs do because people who want to write viruses are targeting PCs because there's more PCs around. I think that is a blinking oasis in the desert. I don't think we're going to be able to stop anything from getting hacked. No, absolutely not.

Well, first of all, we've learned about the NSA and spying. It's already shown that you can't stop it. They've already got algorithms in place. They're already copying all your emails. Because of bottleneck technology. Because we can't invent our own internet. We can only use that internet. And that internet goes through certain filters. Well, it's also because these fucking corporations have given in to their overlords and given up the information.

That's really where it comes down to. their overlords and given up the information. That's really where it comes down to. I don't want to live in a future where I've got artificial organs and all of the information from that is being pumped out to some who the fuck knows. I don't feel comfortable with that. I want that information to belong to me at least so that I can do it with what I want. I don't want any advertisements because my liver is doing whatever or i don't want right people to be able to shut off my liver because i'm not being a good citizen

can you imagine that's like an ethan hawke movie there'd be no snowden yeah snowden's brain would have melted out of his nose by now they just turn him off man i'm sorry you guys i gotta take a leak go ahead go that coconut water crushes me every time. Go ahead. Go take a leak. Thanks. Where do you think the end game is when it comes to all this biohacking stuff? What's the end game? Like, where do you hope that it all winds up? Do you have, like, a, man, I hope by the time I'm X years old I can fly. I mean, is there something like that? I see an end game as something way larger than people screwing with their body.

It's a whole bunch of different technologies that are happening all at once. And the fact that we don't have enough resources on this planet to support the population growth and the amount of people that we do have. And those sort of things add together. I feel like when you look at a company like SpaceX and what SpaceX is doing and the fact that all these technologies are leading towards longer lives, the guy who's doing Soylent, the food substitute guy. I met those dudes. Yeah. I met those dudes in New York.

Really awesome guys. Fascinating stuff. Yeah, isn't it? I drank it. I was like, what am I drinking? I don't know this dude. And I think all that adds together. And I think that, you know, when we have so many people and we're living a longer time and we have the ability to print anything we can conceive, then maybe it's time for us to start moving out to space. Maybe it's time

that we can handle 20 years over to somewhere where we'll be doing heavy construction work in zero-g so that other people can come there and live and be smarter and move forward from there. Maybe it's time to start space colonization.

Space colonization? That's where we're going? Are we going to be cyborgs? That would be way easier for you could be like download your consciousness into a robot and send the robot into space i honestly think that's the the the smartest way to do it is to be a cyborg if you're going into space that's what i've been saying every everything in space is is trying to kill any biological organism you can't you know uh apes in a tin can won't cut it. That's what I'm saying. And I think being able to withstand all of the crazy space weather, space conditions. Yeah, the conditions are insane.

I mean, the temperature is instantly death if you step outside unless you have a pressured suit. If you get hit by any sort of a solar flare or asteroid, you're done. We're too fragile even for this planet. That's why we've got this stuff on us. Motorcycle jackets and shit. Yeah. The idea of colonizing space as this, I don't think it's too dangerous. Do you foresee a future where we really do download our consciousness into some sort of an artificial human being?

I don't know enough about the technology to say anything definite. I think that it's a cool idea, but I've never seen anything compelling. So I can't really say. It's a mindfuck, isn't it? compelling yeah so i can't i can't really say it's a mind fucker isn't it the idea of like a little you a little lucas running around made out of rubber and it's you your consciousness is in this thing it's out there touching things and moving stuff around yeah and also that you could duplicate a lucas like if you could download a lucas then your lucas could end up on the on pirate bay people could just be downloading you and then

sending you pictures of their Lucas that they've put in some kind of habit trail. But that would definitely be another Lucas, though. Because once you start generating independent memories, I think you start having different emotions, different thoughts about things. Yeah, that's going to be

really weird. Unless they all interface somehow or another together. Which is... I mean mean it is possible right i mean if you're dealing with look the the idea of sending someone a video or talking to someone through facetime or skype in real time off your phone seems like the dumbest the craziest thing ever like that couldn't be possible that wasn't even on star trek oh. They never even figured that out on Star Trek, but it's real. The idea that you and your three clones or whatever they are could be experiencing life simultaneously and that you could multitask and that the mind may evolve to concentrate on one person or another.

These two sleep or these two are out and you're doing two different things at the same time and aware, tuning into either one, whatever you choose. Sort of like touching your leg with your left hand while you're writing something different things at the same time and aware, tuning in to either one, whatever you choose. Sort of like touching your leg with your left hand while you're writing something with your right hand. It's going to be a problem, man. You're going to have swarms of individuals. There's going to be Rogan swarms. Like Genghis Khan. Genghis Khan is responsible for something like 5% of the population's DNA because they just – he went on a party in spring in the 1200s and the whole world's never recovered.

You know, imagine if you're doing that artificially. Well, when you talk about stuff that's that powerful, all of a sudden it becomes really important who has control of that technology in the initial. Right, but how do you enforce that? It's a race. It's a race. Hold on a second. What?

What about him? This is a perfect opportunity to talk about its cough because that's what he wants to create a race. Hold on a second. What? It's cough. What about him? This is a perfect opportunity to talk about it's cough because that's what he wants to create. Right. Is this whole army. He wants to create an army. Well, not an army army, but a whole group of people. He does? Live forever.

Did you pay attention to the Global Future 2045 conference? Yeah, I know about the 2045 guys. What do you guys think about that um i i like that uh that they're working towards a solid project uh because that's kind of rare in the transhumanist community there's just a lot of sci-fi talk really and way too much just way too much that's funny there's just discontent in the transhumanist community. They're debating on how to handle this correctly. This guy doesn't know what the fuck he's doing with his robots.

But I like the fact that they have a goal that they're working towards. I just – I fear that there will be a particular group of people that will get it and then just fuck us for eternity. That's your big fear. Your big fear is someone else getting a hold of the goods first and not giving you the super chip i i fear about the type of people that'll that'll get it first because the the world didn't fare well when a particular people set of people got the gun first that wasn't good for a lot of the human species well it was good for us though that's how you're here dude that's how you're sitting on the internet with a plastic microphone in front of you sucked out of the earth i would converted from oil i would rather i would rather

not have to move forward with that sort of contention and fighting and just i don't i don't think is that inevitable i mean I mean with enlightenment, I mean we have – whether or not we've achieved enlightenment, we certainly haven't. But at the highest levels of humanity, I think people are probably more aware and tuned in today than at any other time in history. And it's probably way safer today than any other time in history. Even though there's a lot of crazy shit that goes down on a regular basis, if you compared your everyday life to that of someone living siberia in the 1200s and the mongols came storming in yeah we live a lot better yeah it's pretty pretty goddamn good i and i think that a big part of that is technology and the access to information the access to information is freer than ever before technology more powerful than ever before hence people are safer and people are more moral. I really do believe

that. And I think the idea of people being moral is more accepted as not just something that has to be enforced in order to keep the peace, but that's something that's beneficial and something that you should strive for. It's admirable. I think that really might not have existed on such a mass scale in the past, even in the past 20 or 30 years i think we're dealing with like pretty unprecedented times and it sounds like really super you know optimistic but i feel like one of the byproducts of this technology that we're all experiencing is that we're experiencing a sort of mini enlightenment and a burst of enlightenment because of this information if that is the case i think that this kind of technology that sort of dissolves more boundary, I don't think it's going to lead to a constriction of the people that utilize it.

I think it's going to lead to a freedom of the species itself. I really do believe that. I think that if I look at the trend, even though everybody wants to think the sky is falling, the trend doesn't indicate that. The sky is falling for some people in some spots, and the apocalypse is right now if you're living in the Congo. If you're in Liberia, the apocalypse is today. That's Mad Max, right? That's going on right now. But the trend for us here, it's obviously not in that direction. I mean, it seems like there's always going to be a worst-case scenario on this planet,

but that worst-case scenario is far better today than it's ever been in history. And the best-case scenario was completely non-existent, even in science fiction novels. It's going in that way. You can't stop it. Yeah, wait until one of these people invent a swarm of nanobots that goes flying out of their basement devouring toddlers. I mean, the thing is, I like the idea. Toddlers. Toddler is a fun word to say.

No, that's your thing. You always go with dead babies. But no, I think that when you're talking about this kind of stuff, you're talking about acceleration. I think you're talking about a technological acceleration. And wherever there's acceleration, there's an increased chance of hurting yourself. If you're on a skateboard going a few miles per hour, you're fine. If you're on a skateboard going downhill, you can wipe out. Well, humanity is on this technological skateboard that's exponentially accelerating. And in that way, the role of the individual becomes more and more and more intense, which means that with this kind of stuff, when the individual has access to the kind of technology that they have today, they can do a ton of damage.

Look at what happened with those freaks. All they needed was a pressure cooker and some ball bearings, and they permanently – they killed so many people and traumatized so many others. In the same way, five years from now, what happens when people have access to this kind of stuff? We are setting ourselves up. But you're talking about very unique individual circumstances in comparison to the 7 billion people experiencing things completely differently all around the world. The problem is that you're dealing with 7 billion people that have access to the internet, or at least a good percentage of them, and have their stories being told. So you're hearing about instances all over the world simultaneously all at once. We are not designed for that. We're designed to take in information from our local community. We're designed to take information from, oh, there's a band of dudes, they're about a mile

away on foot and they're coming here to fuck our women. That's normal. That's what we're supposed to deal with. You're not supposed to deal with a story about a guy in Switzerland who fucked his pig to death. You're not supposed to deal with

this guy in Detroit that's got a fake Bigfoot in his cooler in Outback. These are all, you know, this is just, you're dealing with so many human beings an impossible number of seven billion and you're getting information from a vast number of those people so you're always going to get these freaks you're always going to get but it's still

the trend the overall trend better is way better than it's ever existed and i i agree with you there i i my hope would be that we become more ethical before we get the power to cause damage. So even though we're more ethical now, any ethical mishap at this point would be a lot more disastrous. It's not so bad when the most powerful weapon you have is a sword. Yeah. Well, that's not true because Genghishan killed 70 million people with a horse and a sword and a lot of people a lot of other dudes with them but they did it with horses right 70 million people over his lifetime with horses but if the the scenario is you have 3d

printers and let's imagine 3d printers in 200 years where now you can like molecularly assemble stuff and somewhere along those 200 years someone discovered antimatter right so let's imagine that there's a way someone could create a antimatter that when it met matter would dissolve the universe let's just say there's an imaginary technology they could open up and you know what's not what's going to happen a few people are going to die and then it's going to force everyone to learn how to be really nice to everyone because everyone can create a fucking anti-matter bomb in their computer. That's what I hope. That's right.

Yeah, that's what I hope. That's what I hope. I mean, they say a well-armed population is a polite population. I mean, we're going to take it to the complete next level. Anti-matter is a polite country. Black holes all throughout our planet

that were created by assholes. We're going to have to hop over on our way to 7-Eleven. There's a black hole over there. Oh, thank you. Something in transhumanism that people don't talk enough about i think is making people more ethical i think there's only talk of making people more capable and more intelligent that's interesting there's no talk of making people nicer for the sake of just living in a more sane world because we're nice now but what happens if infrastructure goes away and we become hungry again and we've got lots of weapons around?

Right. What happens? Yeah. And it would take a longer period to build back up in this state rather than if we were nicer and had forethought instead of having hunger automatically take over and be like, well, fuck that guy. He has food. automatically take over and be like, well, fuck that guy. He has food. I think that we should start having a discussion about making people more ethical and being able to empathize with even other species because who knows what we will run into in

the future and that might be important. Well, that's interesting that you brought that up because that was something that Dmitry Itzkov actually touched on in the conversation that I had with him where he was talking about that being an important part of this whole movement and that the movement wasn't just about achieving some new technological state. It's about elevating humanity as a whole overall. And I thought that was really interesting that he is taking that into consideration. That's one of the reasons why in this Global Future 2045, that's what it was, right? Global Future 2045 conference that he had, he brought in a lot of religious and spiritual leaders to sort of ask some questions of these different faiths to try to get an understanding of what their philosophies were and how they would incorporate this sort of new impending technology, this transhumanism idea, were it to come to fruition.

It was really pretty fascinating stuff. I mean, he didn't just take it from the technological standpoint. Itzkoff really dove into the psychological and the spiritual aspects of it as well, which I thought was unique and admirable and probably pretty important if this thing moves further. You're going to have some real ethical questions. You develop immortal cyber beings with skin made out of spiderweb silk that's bulletproof. I mean, there's already the transhuman Mormons.

They've already figured out how to do that. Right. Yeah, the transhumanist Mormon. What? What? What did you say? Yeah, the Transhumanist Mormon Association. What? What? What did you say? Yeah, that's a real thing. It's like saying gays for Jesus.

Yeah, there's... That's hilarious. Transhumanist Mormonism. Yeah, there's a subset of the Mormon community. The problem is if you're willing to be a Mormon, you're fucking willing to be anything. It's just a matter of who rings your doorbell first. You know? It's like, just sit sit him down talk him into anything

you're a mormon you believe a 14 year old named joseph smith in 1820 found golden tablets that contained the lost work of jesus and only he could read them because he had a magic rock no wonder why they're afraid of gay marriage your family because if someone could talk you into being a mormon they can talk you into blowing them too. That's the joke. Get it? That's right out of my stand-up. God damn it. You got me doing my own material. You're a part of a movement right now. Whether you call it

grinders or transhumanism or whatever, you're a part of a movement where you're focusing on a very specific thing. You're focusing on incorporating technology into the body to improve the body. And as long as you're focusing on that, as long as there's a whole community focusing on that, whether or not now it's just magnets in the fingers and everybody's poo-pooing it and saying, what's the big deal, there's going to come a time where it's a lot more than that.

Whether it's some new invention of something that has absolutely no rejection in the human body so you can add all kinds of things. Whether that, some new technology comes along that radically enhances perception, whether it's visual or hearing or thinking, cognitive function, the ability to read each other's minds as long as you both have the chip. It's all going to happen, right? Like, you can't text message someone who doesn't have a phone.

Okay? But if they have a phone, you can text them pretty easy. And once we all have something like that in our head, and it's like, your phone will work with your friend's phones. OMG, I'm looking at you right now, and I'm writing this down. There's going to be those moments where we hit some next level thing that we didn't see coming. Just like we didn't see the internet coming. We didn't see cell phones coming. No one saw that shit coming.

Again, even Star Trek. They had a fucking walkie-talkie, man. Kirk out. You had to say that and shut it. You had to flip it open. It's so stupid. They didn't see iPads. They didn't see any of that shit.

And you guys are right on the crest of the wave, right on the crest of the technological tsunami, getting sucked into the singularity. As we're all getting torn towards that waterfall, you guys are in the canoes at the very front. How far would you be willing to take it? If someone came up with some real Steve Austin, six million dollar man, arms and legs,

they just had to saw your shit off and put on some new ones, would you be down? If you knew, if there were like a whole bunch, it was like fake tits, where everybody was doing it. If it got to that point I think if everyone was doing it

We'd all do it Yeah You came up to like a woman In the 1800s You came up to a pilgrim Or something And said listen I like

I like what you look like But I'm thinking Maybe some bags of water Surgically implanted Under your breasts Would you know Get a lot more attention Around the town

Zip lock bags Soup They didn't even bags soup they didn't even have bags they didn't have plastic but they would think you're fucking crazy are we gonna think i mean is that us looking at the future about like it's gonna be standard like you still have your arms and legs oh my god girl what are you doing what is that yeah that that'll be the end of rape everybody's just a fucking super robot it'll be the new retro thing though to have everybody fight off everybody yeah i think that retro comes it becomes an expression of yourself kind of the way that body modification is already yeah you know i why would i replace perfectly good arms and legs when

i could have extra or maybe something something now you're greedy see greedy motherfucker trying to give you a super body like How about I have three dicks? But by the way, man, you got it. Four arms. Four arms would be great. Shiva. Maybe that's what Shiva's all about. Maybe that is the future.

Shiva's a futuristic robot. Holy shit, I never even thought of that. Maybe that's what that was all about. Some crazy transhumanist from the past. Maybe they figured it out a long time ago and they just barely wrote it down. They were so high. They wrote it down like a few passages in the Bhagavad Gita and then went back to eating mushrooms.

Hold on. Six arms? Is that what it says? But I do like that you asked somebody who has magnets under his hands if he would replace his arms with robot arms. Of course. The answer is yes. Of course.

You would do it in a second. Even if no one else was doing it. But what if you couldn't enjoy foot massages anymore? Would you replace your legs if they were just numb? They were numb but awesome, like jumping over buildings, running 60 miles an hour. But they were numb. You don't feel a good massage. Are you saying that if you had to pick between enjoying foot massage?

Girl grabs your butt, you feel nothing. I don't think it has to be a tradeoff. It might have to be. But if you keep your cock and balls, but the bottom of your sack is numb. The only way you feel your balls is if someone squeezes them. But the legs on down, fake as fuck, super powerful, pistons, nuclear power, jumping over trees. So wait, you're saying I could jump over trees, but my balls are numb? Only the bottom.

The bottom of your balls are numb. I take numb balls. I'll take all the way to the top. Would you think you would be willing to go through an operation that removes your legs? I mean, what if they get operations like, look, a long time ago, just something like a fake tit, you'd probably die if someone tried to do that to you you would die just from the fact they didn't know how to sterilize you you didn't have any way of putting you under sure it was it would be nothing today but back then it was a serious serious thing today girls go back to work in a couple of days right the idea i don't know why i keep going back to

fake tits i'm trying to find a non-sexist way of approaching this as far as male enhancement but i can't find anything that's as standard as the craziness of female breast enhancement. It's one of the weirdest things human beings do. But if we get to some point where amputating legs is like nothing and replacing it with an artificial one, super powered. I think that the difference between a breast implant and a fake leg, right, is that already my knees are given out. Already my legs are going to wear

out. Stop right there. Have you ever seen a chick that's had three tits? Three kids, rather? Have you ever seen a chick's tits who's had three kids? Everything wears out, man. We're made out of flesh. Right. It would have been way better if I said it smoother. Yeah. Missed opportunity. Say it again. I stumbled. No, it's too late. We do wear out wear out you're totally right there's nothing different between those two but we wear out yeah we do eventually your choice might be shitty legs or better legs or maybe

they fix fix the um undersack and you know come up with some new technology that even though the undersack is artificial it has sensors and it sends it. I would just like everybody here to stop pretending that if they had super powerful robot legs, you wouldn't get your legs amputated and replaced by super – But what about the fact that they're numb? That's a weird thing, man. I would want someone to do it for a few decades. You're jumping over trees. People are already working on prosthetics that interface.

Yeah, that feel. People are already. And we're working towards more sensitive prosthetics so that you can feel more. Right. And you can pretty soon, I'm hoping that you can even dial it so that if you're going to do something dangerous or painful, you can dial the pain down. Whatever. It becomes optional. At that point, why would you keep

these these aren't modular you can't switch them they don't rotate yeah why why would you why because they feel good when you hold someone's hands but you can you can always put over a layer of soft stuff why not just pretend you're alive and jump off a bridge i mean it's at what point in time do we end this okay your Your whole body is going to be this fake robot body and you're going to take what is the memories of your life and your consciousness and download them into some computer chip and the you

rots and this dream you goes wandering around until your batteries run out. Thinking you're really living on a farm with the Waltons. Meanwhile, you're a stupid thing with a battery. You don't even know what the fuck is going on with your life. Meanwhile, you're really living on a farm with the Waltons meanwhile you're a stupid thing with a battery you don't even know what the fuck's going on with your life meanwhile you're like holding hands on the beach and getting foot massages

while all of us are bounding through the universe jumping over buildings I'm just playing devil's advocate but there always are those people that want to hold everything back and go those assholes that we're listening to Science has yet to explain how a seed becomes a beautiful flower and the spot. Yes

Actually, it has yeah dummy, you know, we were listening to these some of these religious people talking at that conference We're just like their ideas were so stupid and antiquated Clinging on to the the mysteries that have already been solved. Right. But in what we were talking about before, those mysteries that have been solved, when we do understand the mechanism behind a seed becoming a flower, make it even more fascinating. Yeah. Because even though we understand the process now, it's still, wow, that's cool.

Before it used to be, oh, wow, that flower is beautiful. What a mystery. I am so glad god brought this to my life now we're like isn't this incredible this seed it got oxygen and then minerals from the soil and then it converts it into energy and then it's photosynthesis and it grows and then the flowers blooms this is insane it's like the whole process behind it is like it's like so mind-boggling and enriching. And as a human being, that's one of the things that like really jazzes us up when we learn new shit, when we discover new shit. It's part of like the – like when you tell someone something, they go, whoa, that's cool.

Like we were talking earlier today about this discovery. These scientists in Germany and America, they have discovered this new type of animal that used to be like an ancestor of the human being that's from 41,000 years ago. They thought it might be a Neanderthal. They thought it might be a Homo sapien. And it turned out to be some new thing that they didn't even know existed. They're calling it a Denisovan based on where they found it. And when we were talking about it before, we were all like, whoa, cool, whoa. Like there's a part of learning something new and discovering something new that just jazzes us up.

Yeah. And that's one of the things that brought me to transhumanism, the desire to see the Milky Way. I mean, learning that we didn't live – we couldn't live long enough to explore the galaxy was just, to me as a kid, was just. Devastating. Yeah, it was devastating. That's when you know you're a super geek. It's like, you know, I grew up watching like Star Wars and watching Doctor Who and then finding out that we're too fragile and we don't live long enough to see anything. It's like we can't, what we do is we say't what we do is we say what's over that hill

what's over that mountain let's go i know it's dangerous but hey there's nothing else to do let's do it and the fact that we we can't cross space because we're just too much radiation or there's you'll develop wrong or whatever that to me that was devastating and unacceptable. And I think that that's just, what other option is there but to move forward? That's so funny, devastating and unacceptable. You heard about the, there's a gentleman at the University of Connecticut that's the foremost scientist working on time travel. Roy Mallett, I believe is it,

Ray Mallett, I forget his name, but he's a professor. And he started his work on time travel because his father died when he was a young man. And he wanted to go back in time to save his father. So this guy, he's like a goddamn character in a comic book. He's like a character in a Spider-Man book. And he's been working on time travel to go back in time and save his father. Cool. time travel to go back in time and save his father cool that but it's those those things

like where you're like i can't imagine that i'm living in a world where i won't get to fly in a battlestar galactica ship and fight the cylons this is ridiculous i think that's what's beautiful about transhumanism is that it has the impulse within it is the same impulse that got people to go onto ships to sail towards a continent that they kind of heard about. It's risking everything with no food, probably going to die. Maybe the earth just ends. I think there's something beautiful about what you guys are doing, even though I do see it as a kind of self-destructive act. I think when you put magnets under your fingers you you aren't thinking ahead you aren't thinking about what you're going to be like in 30 years you know

you don't know you could be the dude who used to have a nose ring for like three days and i didn't get the nose ring infected and almost killed you you self-destructive bastard impulse that to get me the nose ring was not the same impulse that drove explorers through the sea it was just being dumb and high in venice beach there's no glory to it what these guys are doing is glorious it's really cool it's just a kind of low it's a bit you have to start somewhere you know you gotta you gotta start somewhere you're starting with magnets in your fingers by the way if anybody's listening to this the uh the the scientist was ronald mallett ronald l mallett m-a-l-l-e-t-t from the ph he's a phd at the university of connecticut would you

like to meet dimitri itzkoff the man who founded the global future 2045 conference and if so what would you uh ask him you first please what would I ask him? I would ask him... What would you say to him? I mean, it doesn't even have to be a question. Would you have anything specific that you would want to talk to him about? I would actually ask him what his vision of the future is. If it all pans out perfectly in his view, what would it look like? Because I'm very interested in what his ut of the future is. If it all pans out perfectly in his view, what would it look like?

Because I'm very interested in what his utopia is. I'd actually love to meet him. What about you? What would you ask him? I'd like to meet him. I'd like to know what he thinks about where we're going as a whole, as a group of people who are experimenting with ourselves and doing this stuff.

And I would ask them for the resources that we don't have. When you talk about how putting a magnet inside yourself, you can't think about the long term. Well, it's not that we haven't. It's that the people we talk to who are professionals in these fields, they can't risk telling us the answers because they have professional certification boards that would say, hey, you're behaving unethically. You're telling someone to do something harmful to themselves, and they don't know the risks they're taking. We're yanking your license. And so we don't get answers to questions that we need.

And so we don't get answers to questions that we need. And I think a guy like Itzkoff could probably put us in touch with a lot of people who would have a lot of answers for things that could really help us out. Awesome. Dudes, thank you very much. Really fun conversation, really interesting stuff, fantastic subject. And thanks for doing what you're doing. Thanks for sharing your information as well. Thanks for having us. You guys have a great attitude about all this technology too.

And even though I play devil's advocate about it, I really think that ultimately that would be the best way. You know, if we all had access. But the problem is, you know, people are weak bitches. I'll tell you. Grindhouse wetware, ladies and gentlemen. This podcast would not be a good one. Good night. Good night.