The Joe Rogan Experience - Swapcast - Podcast On A Plane with John Dudley

Episode Date: June 21, 2019

This episode is currently only available as audio. Joe and John Dudley sit down on a plane to discuss their recent hunting trip to Lanai.

And we're rolling. Cheers. That's only part of a Cat Lady. I mean, obviously. Yeah, that's just the one. Well, it's the critical part. It is. Without the red wine, the Cat Lady is not that ridiculous. It's just red wine.

It's like tequila and Red Bull. That's normal. I mean, that's like Red Bull and vodka. It's not too crazy. You pour the red wine in there and you're like, what am I doing? Now you're just desperate. Now you're just like everyone shows up to a party with what they found in their parents' refrigerator. Yeah.

And then the cat lady appears. Have you ever made one of those since then? Yeah, a lot. I turn people on to it all the time. That day was so ridiculous. I've gone into bars where people recognize me, and then the waitress comes over and says, the bartender would like to give you this Cat Lady.

And I'm like, what? For people who don't know what we're talking about, the Cat Lady was a drink that John invented two years ago in Lanai. Two years ago? Yeah, I think it was two years ago. Not last year, the year before that. Two years ago. And it was Shane Dorian, Sam Sohalt, Ben O'Brien, John.

Remy had left. Yeah, Remy had left. He didn't get to enjoy it. That was the first. We did a podcast in my suite, and we just went into the mini bar, and we just grabbed everything. I don't know about this wee stuff you came with a full bear hug of just i could hear clinging happening and you just dropped it the middle of the table like this is what we got yeah you're like hey let's podcast and that's where it all started by the fun by the end i

just was kind of grabbing i think I was consuming more than most, so I was just reaching around trying to take whatever was left, and then you're like, what the hell are you pouring? So that was our first year doing this trip, and this year is our third. And, man, it is an awesome place to get ready for elk. I think to get ready for anything yeah anything if you can successfully especially if someone's wong and know like where they rate i remember last year when i elk hunted with andy i told andy when we were in mont Montana that this time I'm going to be limited on how much I can hunt with you.

Like, we'll both go opposite directions. And then after, I think, two days, Andy said, okay, I realize now how much of my success before was hinging on you navigating me in these, like, small moments that i didn't really realize how important they were and i think if you can come here and if you can do you like if your guide can get you close but then you just say i'm gonna test only myself from here in like from the 250 yard mark in if you can get it done on an axis here you can get anything done yeah that's black bow hunting skills yeah i think that's black belt skills especially if you're taking a large long shot and you manage to crawl into place because a lot of it is crawling if you plan on coming out here folks bring some knee pads luckily our sitka gear uh pants have built-in knee pads yep which are

excellent but if you if you if you use a different kind of camo first of all you shouldn't Typically, our Sitka gear pants have built-in knee pads, which are excellent. But if you use a different kind of camo, first of all, you shouldn't. Second of all, if you do use a different kind of camo, better get some knee pads. Just the pattern itself looked amazing. Amazing. Like when we were glassing across, when I would glass and look at you, or when I'd look back, you blend it. I mean, it worked really well. It worked great everywhere.

The Sub Alpine is the bomb. It's the bomb. I've used a lot of different camo, trying different stuff out. And, you know, I really love First Light. They make good stuff. But Sitka's the best. They're the best. They just take everything above and beyond.

Everything is one step better. You know what's funny? above and beyond everything is one step better you know what's funny they won't they won't come out and publicly say that sub alpine is effective for like whitedale or turkeys because the gore the gore mythology i don't know if i said that right but they have a protocol of having their tests to prove things or be able to make a statement are very vigorous for gore. So because they've never truly tested subalpine to a turkey's vision, they won't come out and publicly say that it's effective for turkeys, even though I can tell you it definitely is.

Early season whitetails, midway through the season for whitetails, 100% effective. But what it was truly tested for was subalpine. It was like tested for hunting big game. And so they'll say that, but I can tell you if there's any type of foliage that has a hint of green in it, it is effective. It just breaks everything up so good. Like when we were at Utah hunting elk, we just blend right in. I would look back a few times, and I couldn't tell where you were. Even in those poplars where there was some white and black speckle, it looked amazing.

Yeah, it's a perfect breakup pattern. You don't see the human form. You don't see the human form. For here, what matters most is movement and, I guess, what the environment. Ha-ha. Now we have something a little different. Margarita. Yep, that'll work.

Yeah, the movement is big, but I became an even bigger believer in the hex suit while I was here. When we had that bird fly by and just land right behind us, I was like, dude, what is wrong with this bird? He had no idea we were there. Yeah, he was right in our business. Yeah, we were just sitting there, and this bird just flew by and landed right next to us. It started tweeting away, letting us know. I think you said, you go, what's this thing doing? And I just looked at you i'm like that's what things do with the heck squirrels jump on my shoulders birds like try to land on me

what'll wig you out is when owls when i'm in a whitetail stand and owls will come in and be like cupped gonna land on your shoulder if it's a small bird i'll let them do it if it's a squirrel i'm like get on there dude i'll do that when it's got talons i'm like whoa like back off bro but i've had several owls just kind of come flying in they cup up and they're just going to land on my shoulder and i i have to just wimp out just so the hex suit for people who don't know, H-E-C-S, the HECS suit breaks up. It blocks your electrical signal, right, the electromagnetic signal that your body gives off. Yep, yep. And it's been proven to work on fish, and it's been proven to work on what other animals? Fish is tested for sure. Birds for sure because migratory birds have had tons of like, I think,

I shouldn't say federal, but like granted tests to track migratory birds and how they see. And it's proven that birds do see in electronic fields. So for birds, they say that it's incredibly effective because like that's why they've got all that footage being able to crawl out on geese and people shooting turkeys from just sitting next to nothing just you know being able to do it but for those it's really important that your hands and your face mask and everything are fully covered with the hex where honestly i'm going with the major muscle groups for my stuff i wear the top and the bottom for small game and big game and i'm a believer man

some people are still skeptical though yeah i mean you know some people say hey you know it seems like you're selling snake oil and i'm like i get it i get it you know I understand what you're saying all I can tell you tell you is like with bears they're predatory animals with bears my encounters with them has just been weird you know how well it works but then if my camera guy doesn't have it it seems like I'm picked off more so I definitely feel like when i've been in my one-on-one situations and i'm fully you know fully clothed in it i wear it all the time i mean i i guess it'd be easy for me not to but i always do i mean i i'm a believer in it for sure yeah i became more of a believer this trip i felt like there was too many moments too where deer were staring at us

and they just didn't know what the hell we were when where it's like some of the times in the past when i wasn't wearing it the same sort of situation the deer would start blowing and then they would take all their way they take off they make that crazy barking noise and they took off when you when we got up to your deer and where we you know we're kind of his final resting place where we took pictures and stuff did you ever look back to the tree that we were for those of you who want to know we're actually on our flight back this is a flight podcast everyone around us like what's going on not no we're just podcasting, folks. Did you look back at that tree and see how small that tree really was, dude? Yeah, pretty small.

Imagine me and Joe Rogan tucked up next to kind of a bonsai tree. And we had to crawl. I mean, about 80, 90 yards to get to it. 80 or 90 yards crawling, and we get to this tree, and I kind of grab the base of the tree, and I'm trying to shimmy up the tree just enough, and I figured there was going to be a few axis there, and that's the thing with axis.

When they're bedded, you might see one or two that's standing up at the time, but once I got there, i looked back at you and i'm like giving this signal like dude like don't crawl but like on your belly scoot like just use your fingertips and your nails and like pull yourself to me because we the the our cover was probably only two feet tall. And with you with a backpack on, that was about all you could spare, was just laying flat to your stomach and crawl up to me. And then you got behind me and used me as a blocker to come up. And how many deer were within 80 yards of us? It was a lot. It was a lot.

They were everywhere. When I shot the deer, that's when we really realized how many there were. geez a lot of them popped up yeah tons it was pretty crazy so let's talk about your shot first yeah because that was honestly that was the highlight of the whole trip for me was just hearing that sound we had the sun hard at our back i couldn't really see i was trying to film so i couldn't really see where your arrow went i just could see i could see that broadhead like right past my shoulder and i was looking at the tip of your broadhead and seeing how still it was i was like referencing it on something that was behind it and you were just stable and I could see your broadhead coming back back back back on the rest so I knew you're just pulling on that silverback

just slow slow and sweet and as soon as I heard it go I just looked right at the axis and I heard that sound that just I knew it had found the honey spot. Well, I committed 100% to the silverback last year. When I hunted here, I was using a thumb trigger, which is great. But these deer are so skittish, and these moments are so adrenaline-filled. I felt like I made a decision. I'm like, look, i shoot super accurate with the silverback why won't i hunt with it like what am i thinking am i thinking that i need to make it go off quick like what am i thinking i'm just going to go to 100 silverback and i'm super glad that i

did because i shot my uh elk last year in utah with aback. I shot that amazing elk at Tohon Ranch, which is like the furthest I've ever shot an animal. 75 yards, perfect shot in the heart, silverback. I practice with a silverback. I don't practice with anything else. Sometimes I'll practice with a knock to it, but I use a silverback so much, I don't even think about punching the trigger. I don't even think about it. I just put my thumb there and I pull through it the same way i do with it with the silverback that's how it is people don't realize that

there's this window when you have one thing that you really like and you feel comfortable with and you feel like you have control over which let's just say it's the knock to it or or an index finger wrist strap release and then yeah you learn with the silverback and you realize okay this is a good training aid and you're kind of afraid to lose that last little bit of control that you have but there's that window that if you can push through that you forget about that feeling and you just realize this is like you almost realize there is no other option this is just what i shoot with yeah this is all i use every day plus i can make it go off in a second or two seconds once you learn it right it's all in it's all in the scapula it's all in that preload yeah it's all in that muscle in the

middle of the back the rhomboids that's it's all in that and i i shoot with it so much you know i i have that archery range at my studio and i'm just constantly shooting i get there before work i shoot after work i shoot i just constantly shooting constantly shooting with that thing so my body knows exactly what to do that was one of the most satisfying things about this trip like even the shots that i missed and i missed a couple shots because these animals are so fast and we took some you know long shots and one of them was 80 something yards and the arrow was perfectly on track for the boiler room but that thing saw the arrow or heard the arrow and just like boing see ya they're so fast the one thing that's different with axis is i don't think Axis try to locate a sound and then decide whether or not that sound is dangerous or not. With most animals, what I found is the first reaction is to pinpoint where a foreign sound came from.

And once they're locked onto that, if there's anything following that, then now they kind of react like a fight or flight thing so i've had and i can see this a lot in video footage like with elk where they'll hear the bow and they'll turn and look to where a bow went off but if they don't hear something coming they just stand there and the arrow comes in and i really feel like that with with the four fletch setups we have i feel like the arrows are quieter than what we've shot in the past personally well definitely the one i shot last year because last year here i was trying to use a fixed blade and it was a fixed blade with some holes in it yeah and it was like a whistle of death well on some of those longer shots that the deer would

turn but you could see them look up, like on the footage. These, they didn't do that. They just looked our way. They never looked up to, like, that sound that they could hear coming in. So that's why I think the projectile was good. But these things are just, they're keyed in. And we talked to our buddies Sloan from Yeti and Cole Kramer. We're over on the main island hunting Axis 2. They'reui oh yeah they're on maui hunting axis and i asked them how they were doing and they're like

dude shot a few does missed a few lost a few these things are just crazy how fast they react and move and you say it's just you think it's just, you think it's from tigers. Yeah. You think it's. They evolved to get away from tigers. That's probably what it is. Yeah, they're from India. They were given to King Kamehameha, I think in the 1800s,

but they're just an insanely fast animal. They're so much faster. You think of mule deer as being fast. Like, mule deer are drunk and on pills compared to these things. Really, they're like like they're so slow i think these are these are as fast as a highly pressured south texas whitetail that's coming to a feeder that's kind of like jumpy twitching the whole time it's there and you kind of have to aim i got to the point where when i was out with cam cam asked me where i am and i said dude my pin was sitting in the corner pocket of the leg and the body like i

literally every time i drew back i put my the pin i wanted on the back of its front leg i followed that back leg up until it touched the bottom of the body and i was pulling right there i was i was i was pulling on my trigger in a place where my pin if the arrow hit exactly behind the pin it would have like just shaved hair off its armpit but that's not where any of the arrows hit they were all ducking and turning and i i feel like they're moving at least four inches down possibly more yeah and turning away it seems like they duck and spin out like that's their move pick the feet up and like rotate 180 degrees yeah you agree yeah 100 they're never like darting forward that's why i think that this is the perfect place to show how effective a rage is the perfect place to show how effective a large cutting surface arrow is or broadhead is yep

the benefits of it giant because if the if you if you have the variable of not knowing a hundred percent where that arrow could hit you know you're going to be within an area or a kill zone possibly depending on how fast it's reacting it might be a little bit outside of that the more damage the better off you are as long as you're able to still get some penetration yeah and cam said too on the last podcast he's like hey man i definitely see where there's an application for this yeah and he's a fixed blade fiend fixed blade fiend do you think you would have got your deer if you would have been shooting a fixed blade head it's hard to say i mean it's hard to say you know you i think fixed blades many of them especially vented ones they're louder too

yeah there's that's a that's a factor as well yeah could have nothing really knew what had happened with your shot i mean there was a lot of deer there, and it was like, bam, and then that deer ran off. And that thing had to have been completely expired within three seconds. Yeah, it sprinted as far as it could get. It was like 50 yards, which when you see how fast an axis runs, 50 yards is not very long, and it was dead. Seconds. And done. And everything else was just looking around like, what happened happened yeah they mean i had a second shot i tried to get a second shot on

another deer at 70 yards and that deer ducked the string yeah because then they were all alert they were all like keep they knew what was up you shot the rx3 love it it's so first it was so quiet it's so quiet definitely quieter than rx1 yeah which i loved yeah i love the rx1 but this is better i mean those hoyt engineers man they know what they're doing yeah this thing is super quiet and super accurate did cam shoot an rx or did he shoot a helix oh we both okay that's right i forgot which one one he was shooting. I shot the Helix 2. I'm going to switch back to an RX3, I think, for elk season. People ask me all the time why one over the other. I like to shoot them all because I know people have different price ranges.

I don't think one's more accurate than the other. I really like the fact that I can change my grips out on my aluminum riser. If I was honest, I would say I would like it if Hoyt went back to what they used to do on the carbon risers. Why don't they do that? They wanted you to be able to have the ability to shift the new grip left or right, depending on how your natural grip is turning the bow so that you can adjust it to have like perfect alignment of the arrow down the center shot of the riser.

For you, because obviously we've been shooting together for years, you don't have natural torque in your front hand. So I didn't have to shift it anyway. Your arrow and everything is lined up right down the pipe like right down the stabilizer your pin sits right on the outside edge of your shaft you don't have any torque in the in the riser at all you don't even need to move it but i think some people have the a natural ability to kind of grab the handle so they wanted you to be able to remove that screw lift the grip off and you can move this aluminum plate left or right underneath the plastic grip to kind of compensate for your natural torque

personally i'd rather just not have the torque yeah learn how to not shoot that way yeah it's like a band-aid so maybe i did love those knock on elk elk plates. Yeah. I love those. I love the way it feels in the hand, too. It's extra grippy. Even when you're sweaty, it feels like it really sits in your hand well. I've always said less riser in your hand is better. You know, less in your hand gives you less ability to torque what you're holding on to. Is it the same for pool cues? It depends.

Some people like a thin grip pool cue, and that's what they prefer. I have big hands, and I like a fat grip pool cue because there's less movement in my hand. When I hold a pool cue, when it's sitting in my hand, I want my hand to be just just dead i don't ever want to i don't grip the cue really like have a death grip so your elbow is almost like an upside down pendulum my cue sits on like you know when spider-man hits his web those two fingers where

spider-man uses that's how i hold that's how i hold my cue my cue sits on those fingers. Never noticed. And this, so the idea is that it's just like you're almost throwing the cue at the ball. So you're throwing the cue at the cue ball so that you're kind of like letting the weight of the cue and the swing of the arm do the work. You're not death gripping it and jerking it and punching it. You don't ever want to punch the cue ball. Yeah, like me. You want to be relaxed. The whole idea is to be relaxed.

When I'm playing at my very best, I'm barely gripping the cue, and I'm letting the natural texture of the wrap sit in my hand. And that's one of the reasons why a lot of times I like to use a wrapless cue, which is just wood with an enamel enamel or i mean some lacquer cover on it and then i i put uh beeswax on the lacquer and that's my favorite because just sits in the hand it's tacky and i don't have to grip it at all and i just let the cue do all the work it's like the more you can relax and the more i play like i play for a few hours, then I get real relaxed. And then I can really just sort of like gently move my arm and let the cue stick move the cue ball and do all the work.

You're the same with archery. Me, it's like I can come out of the gate and feel really relaxed and feel effortless as I shoot. And then as I fatigue, I obviously feel like I'm putting more effort in. When I'm ready to pack up, you're just starting to loosen up and it's the same with with pool you could play pool forever i mean i've had to just be like hey dude i'm done you're like i'm just getting loosened up yeah i get loosened up about eight hours in with with pool the guys that look like they're not putting any effort in is that when they're with archery when guys look super comfortable like you almost feel like the bow isn't real

you watch them you look at them at full draw and you realize it doesn't even look like they're holding 60 pound like that they look everything isn't in line everything's efficient yeah they look effortless is it the same with pool exactly the same yeah when you see someone tighten up from nerves you see the their hand grip the cube different and you see movement you see like the cube cube goes a little bit left a little bit right they put unnecessary and accidental english on the cue ball. Yeah, it's one of those things where the more you can stay calm, the more you can relax and rely on technique.

That's one of the reasons why archery is so attractive to me because there's so many parallels with pool. So many. And martial arts as well. One thing you said the other day that I really, really liked, and I don't know how we got on the subject it might have been yesterday but we were talking about um we were talking about how sometimes in sport for me it's easy it always seems easy to forget the basics like i forget and

and all of a sudden i'll be coaching someone new or something and i realize they're asking this question it's like oh man yeah i'm i'm taking for granted this basic yeah but for you you said with comedy you never do that which i think has to make you better at it because you and actually with my school of knock what i do to myself every year in december every year in de December I'm like okay whatever I've done this past year doesn't matter I'm going to wipe the slate clean I'm going to start with shooting enough arrows to where I can I can build some stamina practicing and then I'm just going to focus on my fundamentals one week at a time yeah to try to back up it's not as it's not going back as far in the basics as i think what you were talking about but it's still it's still a really cool like training aspect yeah isn't it yeah well what we're talking about what you're saying is every two years i write a whole

new act and i start i'm like a beginner again i'm a beginner who knows how to do comedy but i don't have any new material my materials or I don't have any new material. My material is, or I don't have any old material. My material is all new. So I have to figure out how to make it work. And all these people are paying to see me. So I have to work really hard at it. So I can't be lazy and I can't take it for granted.

And it's like I become almost like a beginner again every two years. Every year lately because of the Netflix special. Yeah, well, it's two years in between specials. Every special, I did one in 2014, 2016, 2018. So I'm on like a two-year schedule, which seems to me to be the right way to do it. Yeah, you can polish. Yeah, you can get, but what's most important is when that special comes out like my last one came out in october of last year of 2018 and that special is out that material is dead yeah it's gone you can't say it again then i move to the new material and then i have to write

and i have to so i have all these people coming to see me so there's no way you're ever relaxed or too comfortable or you can't take it for granted you have to always be nervous and always be on the ball and always be working hard and always be concentrating on the fundamentals of comedy like the making sure that you're using the economy of words making sure that you're using the economy of words, making sure that you're saying things in a way that makes sense to people, the best way to get it to people and sneak in the punchlines where they don't see them coming and have premises that are good and address those premises in a way that's like the most smooth way to do it.

So it requires a lot of thinking about comedy, a lot. It seems like you're in the perfect place to being so close to the store oh yeah for you to be able to go to the comedy store i mean can you think of something that morning and be like i want to try this yeah i think it things on my way to the comedy store really yeah all the time and you're like i'm just gonna throw this out there yep throw it out there see sink or throw it out there. Sink or swim. Sometimes they sink, and you've got to acknowledge it. You've got to let the people know, all right, that was a new joke, and that sucked. We're going to keep going.

And the people get a kick out of it because they know that you're trying things out. All the people that really know comedy, and that's actually one of the beautiful things about the comedy store, is how many comedy fans, like real aficionados, go there. People who, you know, they know that they can go there and any night of the week they could see some of the best headliners on the planet yeah and they know the process they understand particularly one of the beautiful things about podcasts is that through podcasts um we talk about it all the time we talk about that process so the people that listen to my podcast and many other comedians' podcasts,

they understand our process now where they didn't before. Ten years ago, people had no idea how comedians wrote jokes. Now they know. The people that are really big fans, they know really well. I've seen some of your lineups where it happens to be where those guys go to the store. And it's not like it's a lineup. It could be a freaking comedy all-star match. Oh, yeah.

I mean, I've seen names on that top sign where I'm like, Jesus, if you went there that night, you're like hitting the best of the best. On the planet. On the planet. And it's $20. $20. Of the best. On the planet.

On the planet. And it's $20. $20. And you might see Dave Chappelle, Joey Diaz, Ari Shafir, Tom Segura, Burt Kreischer, me. I mean, you see Chris D'Elia. You see Tony Hinchcliffe. Ian was there. Ian Edwards, Owen Smith.

It's just over and over and over. It's like the lineup is insane. Guys you've never heard of that are murderers. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's a beautiful place. It's one of the main things that keeps me in L.A. Yeah, for sure.

That and the podcast. You have a good routine. Yeah, man, I was ready to go. I was ready to get the hell out of California a long time ago. It's like they sucked me in. It's like he sucked me in. Well, what's cool about our relationship too is there comes this point about November where you fully switch gears to comedy. And I fully switch gears to product development coming out, really working on my shooting.

And I go in this, I kind of go reclusive as a friend. There been i think at christmas time didn't i text you at christmas and i said you know sorry for being a bad friend you weren't a bad friend we're both doing the same thing we're both yeah i'm like you know i just said i know you're doing the same but like that's from think, as soon as elk season ends. You start your rewrite. And you wipe the slate clean and you start polishing. And when you're in that, when you're doing your comedy, do you have to stay in there to really, really do good at it? That was what was always hard with me when people asked me to do articles. Is there certain times a year where I feel like I can write an article and it's really me and a lot of times it's when I'm coaching when I'm coaching

and I'm seeing new people and I'm thinking about these things or I'm working on people's gear I feel like I'm a good writer at that point but when someone hits me in the middle of a time where i'm like in the middle of family vacations or if i'm in the middle of a mountain elk hunt i just feel like i'm i'm like i'm kind of forcing it is it the same for you yeah do you get those windows where you're like this is my window where i hang out with comics. I just think about this stuff. This is what I'm thinking about when I'm working out. Well, I can never get out of shape. Comedy is like, it's very critical to never really get out of shape. Like, out of shape is like this whole week I didn't do comedy.

That's as long as I'll get. You did to me. You said some funny shit. We're just having fun, though. I know. Yeah, but I can tell you're always thinking about it. We bring up subjects. I can't even think of them.

But a subject would come up, and that night, the last night when Cam was there, and me, you, and Cam sat there, and then the girls finally came towards the very end. Oh, yeah, yeah. We got on some subjects. I was just looking around like, is anyone here? Like, hopefully, like, we have some privacy because we went down some rat holes, man. But it was funny. Well, that's the beautiful thing about comedy, you know.

It's like everybody knows there's some subjects that you can't really bring up around a lot of people. And those are the ones I like the most. You know, those are the ones that, like, if I can sell those to thousands of people, if I'm in a room and there's 7,000, 10,000 people in the audience, and I can sell this super fucking dangerous idea. Like, sometimes I say, I'm like, hear me out. They're like, Jesus Christ, what are you saying?

But if you have a point and it's well thought out, it's like they really appreciate that you took that crazy ass chance. And then they're laughing with you like, I can't believe it. I did a show last week. We were in Chicago, and I did this giant arena. And Daniel Cormier, who's never seen me do stand-up before, came. And afterwards, we were working together doing commentary the next day. He grabbed me.

He's like, I can't believe the shit you were getting away with. Me either, dude. He's like i can't believe the shit you were getting away with me either god damn that was funny but it's like you gotta know that you have a point you got you gotta really have that but you can't just say it for shock value like for me especially at this stage in my career i'm in this very unusual uh strat. There's not that many people that are in this place. I would argue that you are in a stratosphere of your own, dude. You're at the top of this needle where you get away with shit that no one on this planet can get away with. I don't know about that. I think maybe other people would get away with it if they thought about the things that I was thinking about.

I disagree. But it's this. I don't think so. You've got to have this. I think about things a lot before I say them. I mean, it's not like I'm just flippantly saying something that might hurt someone's feelings or piss somebody off. Like, I want to make sure I cover those bases. You cover every base.

You almost cover everyone's opinion within that arena yeah and you got to start off with the people that are opposing you yep you got to start off looking at it like from the people you bait them in yeah i've been there i've been there at times where i'm like okay he's wanting them to like him just for a minute because he's getting ready to shit on them i just lured him into a trap of logic yesterday um we were yesterday we were at the hotel and i'm walking around with my vegan cat shirt and and uh and you i have i told you a story i was at uh i was in iowa and someone came up to me, and they were legitimately, it was a lady, and she was legitimately triggered.

And she just said, do you kill cats? Because I had this shirt, that's one of Joe's shirts, that has a cat with two X's on its eyes. And it just says, hashtag, yeah, cartooned out. Remember, when cartoon animals would be dead, they would have X's for eyeballs. Yep. So it was hashtag vegan cat, which is, you know, obviously one of the parts of Joe's Netflix special from last year. But I just looked at her and I said, no.

I said, I love cats. And I said, I'm trying to raise awareness for people that are feeding their cats like a vegan and they're causing blindness in felines. And she goes, what? And I said, yeah, people quit feeding their cats meat and they become blind. And I said, I'm trying to raise awareness. And she's like, oh, oh my god i had no idea thank you so much i'm gonna start to raise awareness too oh well yesterday when i was uh yesterday i went to uh to get a drink at the bar and the girl that came over and served me she

stopped me yesterday and she goes do you hate cats and i go why and she goes what does that shirt mean and she goes i hope it's nice and i said yeah it's totally nice and she goes great i'm a vegan and i love cats and i'm like well we're friends but yeah that's one of the subjects right there that's one of the subjects right there. That's one of the subjects where you got away with it, dude. No one else could get away with it. That one was a lot of work. That was a lot of work, that one. I had to, like, circumnavigate that terrain many times to figure out the right way to get that bit across.

Because that was a real thing that did happen. A lady really did say a bunch of mean stuff to me. And then I went to her account account and it said hashtag vegan cat. And I really did look at my watch and go, shit, should I look at this? Like I should go to bed right now. And I know this is true because most of the time when Joe texts me something, it's within 30 minutes of when I wake up in the morning. Because with the two hour difference

you're going to bed around 3 30 and i'm getting up around like 4 4 30 and i do my best writing for whatever reason late at night and i think part of it's because my wife my kids are asleep and i'm usually coming home from the comedy store so i work i do my sets and then i come home and then i write a lot of times a good time to do it yeah because everyone's asleep and my brain's fired up so usually i'm just hanging out with the dog and just writing and then like right until i'm too sleepy and then i go but sometimes like i'll get these sparks so i'm like i'm like a i'm a spark farmer i'm out there just trying to farm some sparks or a forager for sparks i'm looking for sparks yeah and then i find a spark i blow on that spark and i try to turn it into a flame and then i have to keep that flame alive

and so then i have to keep working at it on stage and figuring out a way and then some people will boo me or they'll get mad at me and i go that's not what i'm saying yeah and then i have to keep working at it on stage and figuring out a way. And then some people will boo me or they'll get mad at me. And I go, that's not what I'm saying. And then I have to figure out, okay, how do I stop the boo in its tracks? Well, I've got to get to their argument before they do. So I have to figure out a way. It's such a good way to approach it, dude. You're crafty.

It's sneaky. It's obvious you're a black belt and a j a jujitsu person because you're baiting people. I'm sneaking them in. Yeah. You're a baiting son of a bitch is what you are. One of those things where it's like I've been doing it now for more than 30 years. It'll be 31 years this August. So it's crazy.

I'm trying to remember. I remember you doing a show. I don't know if you did a show at the Riviera, but I was shooting in Vegas and I know it was late 90s or early 2000s and you were doing a show there. Yeah. Yeah. I used to do shows there. That was the only place I performed in Vegas. Was it was it at Riviera? Yeah. Yeah. I remember it then. Yeah. So that would have been I'm sure it's 20 years ago, so you'd have been 10 years in. Yep. And I think I remember some of my friends going,

and they were shocked. Because they said, they're like, he is not filtered in his comedy compared to how he announces the UFC. Because you, like, there's no subjects off limits, is there? Well, the UFC is a different job. You know, it's very confusing for people, and I kind of sympathize with them because I have two completely unrelated jobs.

Well, almost three. You have three. Because podcasting is sometimes funny, but many times not. Like sometimes I'm just talking to scientists. Yeah. And then sometimes I'm talking to scholars or educators. The diversity is what has people hooked. Well, to me, that's how I view the world.

I don't need to be funny. Like I don't ever try to be funny when I'm doing the UFC. My obligation when I'm doing the UFC is to give justice or to honor the hard work that these men and women have put into in their training camp and to appreciate their effort and to appreciate their art, the martial arts. You're super serious the martial arts you're super serious about martial arts when people try to make that funny you don't like it no most of the time i don't i mean unless something funny happens yeah but it has to be my balls are

hot yeah if something like that yeah that's just genuinely funny i'll laugh at that but for the most part my job is to make it exciting for people that are listening and to sort of explain what's happening in terms of particularly the ground like people kind of understand when someone's throwing a kick or a punch and it's my job to point things out that i see like patterns sometimes i'll see like someone moving. I'm like, this guy is moving at a much higher level. Sometimes that happens right before a guy gets knocked out. I'll say, I see a big, like, this past weekend,

Ricardo Lamas was fighting Calvin Cater. And I said, I see a big difference between the striking level of Calvin Cater and Ricardo Lamas calvin is just boom he lands a knockout blow like right after i said that like sometimes crazy yeah it happens like that but you but that's important for for people at home like they want they the one the one of the reasons why some people like me as a commentator is because they know that i'm i genuinely enjoy this this is not a job to me. I don't think, oh, here I am working.

I'm getting paid. I'm getting some money. I don't think that. But I think it's like I am, first of all, I love the sport, and I genuinely appreciate what these guys are doing, what these girls are doing, and I just want to give, I want to honor what they're doing. are doing or these girls are doing and i just want to give i want to honor what they're doing i think anything you have interest in you 100 come across as authentic and that's what that's

what people say they like about me is because they they say i feel like you are 100 authentic about your passion for archery yeah and honestly i feel like social media helps accelerate that because people start to not have only this filter that the the tv network allows people to see or that sometimes you or i don't have control on what that filter is we might say like hey man that's not me can you like i would really like if you did it like this or like, no, you know, we've done some polls and this is really what we want, which is what, which is why I left my network. Yes. Because I realized if I go on to a live feed, people 100% get exactly how I feel. think the more that they experience that their radars of people's natural radars of who's legit and who's not they're sensitive yeah and i think it's the it's the best thing in the world for

people like me or you or cam or any of these people that we know within their fields where they're they're real they're like real people within those fields. Or, you know, Andy's a great example too. He's like, he's almost breaking the mold of what a lot of Navy SEALs are doing. Is it fair to say that? Because so many, like, ride their past to, you know, to try to, you know, build something. Whereas Andy's almost, you almost have to drag it out of him. You know, you almost have to say, like, no, dude,

you've done some really cool shit. We need to talk about this. Yeah. And he's trying to say, well, there's more to me than that. You know, there's more to me than that. But I think once people really see that honesty come forward, that's what people are grasping for. They're like, I really want, I really like that person that I'm seeing. That's what I want more of.

Yeah, you're not produced. You know, when someone watches a knock on, when you're doing a live stream or whether you're doing a podcast, you're not produced. And that's the same with me. I don't have anyone telling me to do it. I've been in that situation where I had someone telling me to do and telling me what to do or what to say. It's not as effective. It's not as genuine.

It doesn't come across that way. I saw today, it's weird how your phone's a spy. Today I got ads pulled up in my Instagram about travel coolers. Your phone's a spy. Today I got ads pulled up in my Instagram about travel coolers. Whoa. Dude. Because we were talking about coolers? Yeah, last night at dinner. Wow.

How we were going to get our meat home. Isn't that crazy? Isn't it? That's so weird. It's crazy, crazy. So it's listening to us? It's listening, for sure. Yeah.

Who can tell us what's happening? I want to know. I need to get someone on that tells me what the hell your phone is listening to. Because that does happen to people all the time. Where all of a sudden their Google feed, their news feed has ads in it. If that happens, will you get really high before they come on just so you can really trip out? Yeah. Because you'll be like, whoa. Yeah. really high before they come on just so you can really so you can really trip out yeah because you'll be like whoa yeah you'll be deep into that i need to find out i need to find out how they're

doing it and what they're doing because that's weird like what if you're like planning a murder you know your phone on you damn fbi knocks on your door and you're like no no i'm writing a book on murder and i'm planning it out with a friend to try to pretend that we were planning a murder so I could see how people talk when they're planning a murder. So me and my friend were the actor. But if you did do that, imagine if you did do that. Like if you were like Jack Carr, right, our friend George Peterson, who he just gave me his two new books. Yep.

I brought mine here to read it but we were we never had downtime never we were we were having fun the whole time but like you say if jack was writing a book or george was writing a book and he was trying to figure out how jack is his uh we should say is his his pseudonym that he uses for writing jack cars is yeah it's his pen name his nom de pleur um but if he was trying to figure out how someone would talk when they were setting up a murder, and so he got together with an actor or a detective or someone and said, what would you say? How would you talk about it? What would be the steps? And the phone picked that up, and all of a sudden the FBI is knocking on his door. He's like,

hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. I'm not murdering anybody. I'm writing books. Like, what are we doing here, folks? What if you got an ad for, like, latex gloves, bleach. Dust-shaped lime shovel. A 1987 18 minivan. Yeah. Gasoline.

Gasoline. Lighters. You'd be like, okay yeah i mean i'm sure honestly i'm sure there's companies that would pay if they knew this guy is a buyer oh yeah he's sketchy we don't care we're just trying to make money we don't know nothing yeah we don't know nothing i think that um you know what we're talking about to get away from that we were talking about when it comes to honesty, there's never really been shows where no one was telling anyone what to do. There's never been like, think about how many downloads you get per episode.

What you get for your archery podcast is like a successful cable show, which is really crazy. Yeah. Right? Think about how specific. More downloads in two days on my podcast than what Friday night full draw at 8 o'clock on the Sportsman's Channel got when I had that slot. I couldn't. I would only imagine that they can't compete. No.

Because it's all watered down. It doesn't resonate with people the same way. When people know that it's straight from your mouth and there's no one, they go, oh, this is who John Dudley really is. One of the things that people tell me when they meet me, they go, oh, you're like how you are on the podcast. I'm like, yeah, that's me's i don't have a boss yeah but there's never been a thing like that where you don't have a boss and yet every episode reaches millions and millions of people like if i could see the

number of people if i could like be on a stage and look out and see like i had uh be real from cypress hill yeah on the podcast the other day that was a good one amazing i love that guy i love him i love cypress hill but he we showed video footage of when they were playing at woodstock and that was a half million people well if i have a half million people listening to a podcast that podcast sucked like something must have went wrong yeah so think about the numbers like for a podcast that's like a killer podcast yeah oh yeah though it's it's it's it's unbelievable yeah what were i mean if you think back of like a really good band that sold out a stadium what that number would be and they're like

this is a legitimate successful band well i feel like a really big giant band could do like a football stadium they could do like 50 000 people or 70 000 people which is you know unheard of right yeah that's oh yeah those are giant giant numbers but that ain't shit for a podcast that ain't shit no so think about one of your podcasts is way bigger than a football stadium which is really nuts man yeah it's really nuts it's it's never been anything like this and it's free it's free there's never been anything like this and there's never been anything where there's you'd have to be using those sick knee pads for some other purposes if back in the day yeah if uh need more than the sick kidney pads.

Yeah, you'd need more. You'd need some thick ones. Yeah, these calloused hands wouldn't be favorable. It's cool, though, man. I mean, we came at the right time for this. You know, I mean, for you to have left the Sportsman's Channel and enter into this new world. Isn't it awesome, though? What I think is so cool is, and me and Cam talked about this,

about the number of people that we get exposed to that we would have never got to hear their voice. People that write just a super cool book, people that write just a super cool book having a you know that have dedicated their lives to an to an awesome topic yeah and you would have never like unless jre was out there for you to go down some wormhole at three o'clock in the morning be like you know what this dude like i gotta get this guy on yeah he's he's tripping me out with some of this information, and then you share it to millions and millions and millions and millions. Yeah. I mean, honestly, it makes mainstream. It makes it harder for them to lie.

It definitely makes it harder for them to lie. Don't you think so? It makes it harder for them to survive because they seem so corny. Yeah. Like, you have a mainstream show that covers these subjects. There's, like, stupid music and dramatic, you know, reads, seems so corny yeah like you you have a mainstream show that covers these subjects there's like stupid music and dramatic you know reads and and it's obviously written and they don't get to just talk like to to discuss subjects you need time to define how someone really feels about a subject

you need time yeah and you know and what these shows are trying to do is they're trying to create these gotcha moments where they're trying to catch people and misrepresent their position on things and they're trying to you know they're trying to like create controversy because that's how they sold things in the past yeah but people are getting tired of being bullshitted they're getting tired of it they want to know like like when i had graham hancock on the other day it was this massively successful podcast millions and millions of people downloaded it and it's about the origins of civilization on earth which is such a crazy subject yeah i think that so many people would be fascinated by it but

they are but they were never represented before because it was never given to them in a way where you could just listen to the author, who is this incredibly well-researched guy, incredibly articulate, has been passionate about the subject for decades, and who was also often maligned by mainstream archaeologists and scholars. And now those mainstream archaeologists and scholars and now those mainstream archaeologists and scholars through new evidence and new Discoveries have been forced to recognize that human beings have existed in these these more advanced civilizations and ever we would than anyone ever thought before for many many many years Thousands of years prior to when we had dated

organized civilizations and cultures. And it wasn't that these subjects weren't interesting before. It's just that you didn't get a chance to listen to someone talk about it. Non-stop, without an interruption or without a producer saying, you know what, that part wasn't interesting. Now there's gaps to where you leave someone the ability to intervene and say, well, no, that's not accurate because he never mentioned this. Well, actually he had, but they edited it out. Yeah, exactly. You know, that'd be the person that'd be on like a PBS special,

and you're at the mercy of when they air it, how they break it up into their 22 minutes. Yeah. And it doesn't give it the justice that, you know, obviously someone that's dedicated that much time where it deserved it. Yeah. You know, it's a new world. And you and I got super lucky that we kind of stumbled into this new world. You know, and I was listening to your podcast long before I met you.

And I watched your TV show, and then I found out about your podcast, and then I was listening to your podcast, before i met you and uh why i watched your tv show and then i found out about your podcast and then i was listening to your podcast and i was saying how crazy this is this guy's talking about like x10s and different flex chains and different configurations and helicals and all this shit like who the fuck is listening to this how can i write that into 1200 words you can't you can't someone be like hey we need a feature article right 1250 cap it out but to me it really um resembled pool in a way because with pool there's all this talk about low deflection shafts or 13 millimeter tips versus 12mm, 12.5mm carbon fiber shafts. Maple butts versus ebony, which is a stiffer, heavier weight, 19 inch balance points. Now carbon, you told me. Which is interesting, right?

Yeah, they're using that for shafts. A lot of the top, top players are using carbon shafts. And the big name companies like Predator, they're making carbon shafts for queues. And a lot of people swear by them. They don't ding up like regular ones do. But it's also like if I started talking to people the way... I mean, I've been playing pool for 20... 25 years? Yeah, about 25 years I've been playing pool. Like pretty, I mean, I never really stopped.

I mean, maybe a little bit when I was really getting heavily into video games. I deviated a bit. But for 25 years I've been playing pool and experimenting with different tips and layered tips versus buffalo hide tips versus cow hide versus pig tips something this is all these different types of just kinds of equipment and you telling that you saying this right now is probably like when you listen to one of my first podcasts i think one of my first podcasts or the top few was um because i kind of wanted to come out of the gate with this is how deep i've gone and so i got james park on which i love james he's an awesome dude he's from australia

but this guy could have a doctorate in the aerodynamics of an arrow that's probably one of the ones that tripped you out probably but now you're talking pig tips yeah on a pool cue i'm thinking like it's making sense where i'm like well duh yeah different density leather tips would totally make sense but i never even knew it existed yeah until right now and now i'm thinking oh shit yeah now i'm thinking well there's 50 different types of plastic like how many are they playing with Delrin? Sure. Then putting the pig dick on the top of it. Are they using foreskin yet?

Like what do you do? Yeah. And then there's also wrapped cues versus wrap list, the way you hold it, the way you grip it. Some guys like to grip it with their wrists bent forward so there's less variation. Some guys like to let the wrist go real loose and they cradle the cue in their hands. There's all these different techniques and strategies.

It's also like finger punchers, right? Some guys can punch that trigger and they can do it really accurately. It's very few people. That's the same thing with guys who have a death grip on the cue. Some guys have a death grip on the cue and they can play really well. Do I? No, you don't have a death grip on the cue some guys have a death grip on the cue they can play really well no you don't have a death grip but you know you it's like anything else you would have to learn how to do it correctly and then you would have to practice yeah you know i practice playing pool by myself mostly most of the times when i play i play by myself i wish i could do what iron man does where he talks to jarvis and he expands

stuff i want to do that on your brain when you're looking at angles on a yeah because when i'll break if i break because joe and i've played together a couple different times you look at the table and i can see like I know you're thinking Joe. When the thinking Joe's there, like, all the cogs are turning, you're doing your Rain Man thing. I wish I knew how many different angles and shit you were looking at. Well, I'll tell you if you want. You know, I'll show it to you.

Like, we were talking about it a little bit the other day. I was like, well, I have to go with the four. I have to hit it with right-hand English because I have to wind up on the left-hand side of the five because I want to drift down to the six. It's so close to the second. I don't have the seven, rather. I don't have much room for error. Are you playing your whole layout? I play four balls ahead.

Always? That's it? No. Sometimes I only play three balls ahead if it's like a fairly easy rack. But sometimes I like to play four balls ahead. Like if there's a cluster, then I know I have to break it out. I can't fuck around. I have to make sure that I'm on the high side of this ball

because when I collide, when I make the shot, I have to hit that second ball or I won't be able to get out. I'm trying to get out. I'm not trying to just – when I watch someone play, because everybody likes to say they know how to play pool, which is hilarious. People come to my podcast studio. They're like, oh, you play pool?

Let's play some pool. Okay, let's play some pool. I knew you well enough to just say, I don't know shit about pool. When you're like, do you play pool? I'm like, nope. How do I hold this thing? But I watch how they make a ball. If they just try to make a ball, I was like, oh, okay, you can't play pool.

You might be able to pocket some balls, but I'm going to fuck you up in the long run. You might be able to make all the shots and run out, and I'll say congratulations. That was a disaster. You got out, but that was terrible. I did that twice. It can happen. Yeah. It's actually the perfect time to talk about when people try to argue with me why,

when they say, what I'm doing is work and it's always worked. And they're like, we know you teach that way. The way that I teach, I would say 80% of the people, it maximizes them to the best of their ability are there a fraction of people that are like the exemptions to the rule yeah and you can probably go and win a tournament you could probably at some point in your career if you go to enough major events you'll win one doing it your way but i'm i'm certain that what i'm teaching will get the mass majority of people more production over a long run they'll be more effective right the right way to do it is that right is it the same yes it's like i beat you two games a pool but to me that's like, you know,

if you freaking throw three things out of the window, you know, one every hundred times is going to land where you think it might land. But it's just chance. Well, we're playing on an 8x4, which is a smaller table, and it has buckets for holes. I like those buckets. All those things factor in and you know the table that i have in my studio is sucks it's brutal man that's a brutal table that's like one of those metal targets that has the softball that's exactly

what it is he's shooting at 40 yards it's an iron buck target every shot i'm like dude i swear i would have made this shot at my old table at home you're like yeah these pockets are a little smaller i'm like they're inches they're an inch and a half shorter than a regulation pocket yeah but that's how i that's how i practice by the way the last podcast i did with joe on the jre there was a few people that said I might have gone too far on the drink. Just so everyone knows, Joe was beating my ass for about three hours on the pool table on these small ass pockets. So I was just like drinking my sorrow away. And about the time he was all warmed up and had enough of me, he said, let's podcast. I'm like, I thought we were podcasting tomorrow.

He's like, no, let's just go now. So, yeah, that. Yeah, that was a rough one. You didn't win a single game that time. That was rough. That fucking table's rough, man. That table's rough. It was.

But that's my practice table. That's how I like. That's like putting that outdoorsman atlas pack on. That's like me taking you right to the tack and be like all right yeah yeah 120 yards hit that sheep yep 37 degree angle good luck no range finder exactly i hope you've learned some stuff it's uh you know there's levels there's levels to everything and one of the things that i learned uh very early on when I became obsessed with martial arts was how important technique is.

To generate power, to generate real power and to do things correctly. Can you name one field where that's not important? I can't. The principles? No. I can't. Comedy, it's with everything. Like Joey Diaz, when you see Joey on stage, he's so wild and crazy and his comedy is so out there.

You think maybe there's no technique to it, but he's one of the best technicians. He knows exactly what he's doing. He does. But he's such an amazing technician because he has the best economy of words. Like here's a Joey Diaz joke that I love. He goes, I like transvestites. They cook, they clean, you can beat on them every once in a while.

The cops come, who are they going to believe? Me or some dude with a wig and a black eye? Those jokes, like, that's a great bit. And the jokes come at you before you know where he's going. The cops come, who are they going to believe believe me or some dude with a wig and a black eye that's a brilliant joke but it's that economy of words and there's a

there's that's like a skill if when you see a comic and they have too many words before they get to the punchline either that's a new joke and they're trying to figure out how to say it which i do when i have new jokes i'll oftentimes go back and listen to old recordings of a joke that I'm doing like three months later where I've got it down. I'll go back and listen to how I started doing it three months ago, and it's embarrassing. It's terrible because there's so many extra words in it. It's so meandering.

It's just – so there's technique to everything, man, everything. But in martial arts, the consequences of having poor technique are the the most devastating because you're going to get hit or you're going to get strangled or you're going to get your arm snapped like all the technique in martial arts is super super critical it's everything do you think there's people that could just focus on five basic principles of, like, jiu-jitsu and just merc, and that's all they do, but they do it so well they can just wait on it perfectly? There's a guy named John Donaher who has done an amazing job in training these killers, just incredible athletes who've been able to beat people with far more

experience than them because John, who was a philosophy major in college, and just he's a brilliant man, like a true genius, has figured out a way to cut to the chase and figure out what is most important. What am I trying to achieve and what are the barriers trying to achieve this and then he's figured out a way to apply that to his students and to teach his students in this way that cuts the learning curve down radically and because of that he's developed these guys like gary tonin or gordon ryan or nikki ryan he's like guys who have not been doing jujitsu relatively haven't been doing jiu-jitsu, relatively haven't been doing jiu-jitsu near as long as their competitors,

but are far more effective. Yep. I've seen some of his stuff. Yeah, he's a genius, man. He's a genius. But it's the analysis. What it is is a superior intellect that applies that superior intellect to something where people may not have been as focused. And there's also a problem with jujitsu where a lot

of people just like to roll. They just like to spar because it's fun. You learn a couple techniques, then you try to get each other because it's a fun thing to do. But the best way to do it is to drill. because it's a fun thing to do. But the best way to do it is to drill. And the really best way to do it is to drill with intent and an understanding of each position, like a very detailed, comprehensive understanding of each position. And what's the danger of not having inside control? What's the danger of not having the underhook?

See, that's what, for me, that's what i feel like some of the places where i've gone and done jiu-jitsu they're not explaining so it's hard for me to absorb yeah because i think just based on my background i'm wanting to know the basics and the whys and the drills and i'm totally comfortable just being in the drills just being in the drills to where it's hard for me to want to learn something new because I know that I'm not doing what you told me before good enough for me to say okay I feel like I'm doing that without having to consciously really try hard at it yeah and I I love that about sport where you're able to just drill and drill and drill until the subconscious absorbs it. And it's like at that moment, I feel like I've made a step.

Yeah. And now drop something else in. And I call it selective cycling. I cycle things in when I feel like I've absorbed something that I've already worked on. It's like that with students. You know, Andy said it before. He goes, a year in, you tell me something where you just now tell me it, and I look at you, and I'm like, a year ago I was doing this, right?

And you knew it. And I'm like, well, yeah, of course I knew it. But it wasn't relevant. Right. You're ready now to know right right now you're ready to know and i almost feel like it's better at least for some people for me i feel like it would be that way because i would always be thinking back to well why was i doing that why or i deep down i know i'm not doing it good enough like i'm not doing it efficient enough whereas sometimes i've gone with people and they're like we just roll because eventually you'll just start to realize why it's important and they're honestly the places where

i've stopped going is is those places because i'm like i can't i don't feel like i learned that way well one of the things that we do at 10th planet is um eddie breaks things down into paths and paths where people escape and then pass when people counter like sometimes like you'll you'll have a path where you will pass someone's guard, move into mount, go for the arm bar. They defend the arm bar. Then they wind up on top. Then they pass. And then they go into like an arm triangle or some other submission.

So the person who is initially attacking winds up being the person who gets submitted. And you'll do this path and drill this path. And you basically, it's almost like a choreographed sequence of events that will take place in sparring. Like where you'll catch yourself in an arm bar, you defend that arm bar, and then all of a sudden you find yourself in side control, and then you find yourself submitting someone with this very same sequence of events. And that just builds your understanding of the positions and understanding of like what can take place from those positions yeah like there's certain arm bars that you can catch while someone's going for a twister or while someone's in the truck or

someone's in these various positions and until you're there you don't really know it so that to to do it in like a very clear path so all the warm-ups that we do will be these these pathways yeah and i think it's important too you know there's people that say they listen to me and they just say you know i just don't get it i for whatever reason i don't like i don't like what dudley's talking about i get it yeah i've gone to i've gone to this it's stubborn it's an ego thing i've gone to places i think sometimes. I've gone to places. It's an ego thing. I've gone to places, I think sometimes, but I've gone to places where for whatever reason I'm hearing the same thing, but it's easier to take it in. Even though it seems like it's the same information, it seems like there's some teachers that are really good at teaching.

And there's some teachers that have been taught how to teach and it comes across that way and it's hard it's hard to soak it in well it's also the personality of the people that are teaching you yeah sometimes you don't want to learn from somebody you don't like them yeah you don't like the way they're talking or maybe they're arrogant and maybe that that arrogance comes off as you know like you want to prove them wrong instead of just listening yeah you know yeah i get it well the last thing we should talk about is probably where we started this trip grilling because you and i are both passionate about cooking food yeah we eat what we kill right yeah and you were you were on a different grill path weren't you i mean i kept telling you like dude i don't know a lot about this traeger but man it's like changed my life well i was doing things

very hot yep and uh i was uh i had a yoder that has a direct heat element, and the direct heat aspect of it was you'd have these grill grates that you'd put down, and you would turn up the flames very, very, very high, and I would cook on these grill grates, and you'd put these grill marks on the meat. It was drying out the meat, though, and until Chad, Whiskey Bent Barbecue, Yeah, Chad Ward. Chad Ward on Instagram. Hello. Hello.

Until he explained it to me, the idea of the reverse sear, cooking things low and slow and then searing them at the end. I really didn't get it. And then once I started cooking like that, I'm like, oh, okay. I get mad when I go to a restaurant, a good restaurant, and they cook the steak bad. Isn't that a bummer? It's a bummer.

We talked about that. It happens all the time. Dude, what did we cook night one when Sharon and I flew in? Did we cook cowboy steaks? Rib-eyes? Yeah, we cooked some rib-eyes. Bone-in rib-eyes? Yeah, some rib-eyes.

We ate those at the house. So you've got the new Ironwood. Yes. It's not the highest end traeger i it's the next one in line yeah but for someone that's buying one in a store dude well i had an ironwood before and you had a timberline excuse me a timberline before and they wanted to give me the ironwood because it's the newest version with the um the d2 they hadn't had d2 motor they didn't have the timberline the new timberline out yet but you know what man if you're on a budget i mean

it's phenomenal i i have no complaints i have the 650 i had the timberline 1300 before but this ironwood 650 is amazing it's so good and i love the app one of the best things for me for traeger is the app and the fact that i can adjust the temperature of the grill on my phone yeah and then also i could find recipes like i cooked lobster tails the other day and i got the recipe directly from my phone and uh i i went to the grocery store i got the ingredients based on that and i i i cooked it on on the traeger with my what did you tell me you cooked at i think you said you cooked something only at 225 just so you could use a super smoke well i've been doing that a lot with roasts oh really yeah i've been doing

that a lot i really like that super smoke man it just it does something to the i love that smoky flavor that you get i think it's one of the best things about pellet grills and i think i've had a lot of pellet grills you know uh the traeger is the best it's the best it's the best at maintaining temperature it gets to temperature better it's the easiest to to work it does so stable yeah i've had some complicated ones where they it cooked good but it was like you had to read the manual to figure out how to do things and Traeger's is straightforward but

pellet grills without a doubt are my favorite way to cook food because you're just getting fire and wood. There's no nonsense. There's no charcoal, lighter fluid. There's no briquettes. It's just wood and fire. It's a pellet that's repetitive.

Yeah, and what they figured out how to do, first of all, it's so efficient. The Traeger uses so little pellets. Like I fill that hopper once. I go 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 cups. I mean, it's a foot deep of pellets. Yeah. And it takes forever to run through that. We were eating those ribeyes that night, and we're like, dude.

It's as good as you're ever going to get. I haven't gone anywhere where I would say, I need to know how this guy is doing this because it's better than what I'm making at home. No. They were definitely as good as anything i've ever got ever yeah and it's so easy to use and to do it at 225 and i love the fact that traeger has that probe and you can yeah that's the best and you read it with the app yeah harry is has his first apartment right now and i don't and actually it's a summer. He's got, he's in a research project, which is pretty cool.

But I don't think he realized that the school wasn't cooking food because he was in his apartment one night and he sent a text to Sharon that said, Campus is closed. We can't get food there. So we got to do our own. And he goes, do you think dad could cook for us some nights and so she's like you need to cook for him so i i told him i said you want me to do you i forgot what i said we did a brisket i said i'll cook a brisket for your guys uh so i started it at night i literally woke up at 3 in the morning, grabbed my phone next to my bed, opened it up, told me that the brisket was at like 159.

I got up, went outside, put the brisket in a big foil pan, wrapped it all in there, put in a little bit of juice, sealed it all up, bumped the temp up to 275 put it back in the grill closed it and just set the alarm for when the brisket hit 204 like set the alarm on my app so the next morning at 9 a.m bing it goes off the brisket's at 204 i took it out set it in a yeti and just left it in there until the guys came home after their 10 mile run for that day and just sliced it and it was ready to go amazing it was perfect yeah it's the perfect combination of technology you know how much shit i ruined on a freaking propane

oh yeah oh yeah or charcoal grill yeah i had a kamado you know one of those um ceramic grills which is great it's great until you use a pellet grill yeah and then you know my wife was like get rid of this stupid thing like you don't even use it i'm like but it looks cool well it's like people that say you need to learn how to start a fire with like two sticks no yeah i can do it, but I also can buy a Bic lighter at the gas station when I'm filling up my car. It's 90 cents! Do I really need that? I mean, look, it's a good survival skill.

Yeah. If you really do find yourself, and I know some guys like to just bring like a flint and some cotton swabs. I get it. Some people, hey, Schneider likes to shoot a traditional bow. and some cotton swabs are filled with Vaseline. Hey, Schneider likes to shoot a traditional bow. I don't get that.

More power to him. I don't get that. But then other people say, why are you shooting a bow when you can shoot a rifle, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we're in that category, damn it. Yeah, yeah. We're freaking idiots, too. Well, the argument for that is these damn deer, these axis deer.

I met some hunters this morning, real nice guys, and one of the guys, he got his first big game animal today with a rifle. So they were there for half an hour, and they shot a deer. Yep. We hunted for five days for me. I struck out five days in a row until finally I connected on the sixth day with that beautiful buck. But, well, dude, we're flashing on one bar of battery. I'm afraid of it.

Oh, run out of battery? Do you have a charger? Well. Do you have a thing to plug in? I have a plug-in, but do we have a plug-in? Yeah. Is there a plug-in close by? Yeah, there's got to be.

There's got to be some outlet here. Well, if you can figure that part out. Should we just bail on this? I don't see any. We're quitters. Yeah. Let's just bail. Damn it.

I don't think there's any power here. Well, dude, this was awesome. Hey, my brother, listen. It's always a good time hanging with you. I love hunting with you. Thanks for teaching me about archery. Hey, the next time we see each other, do you know who we're going to be introducing to archery hey the next time we see each other do you know

who we're going to be introducing to archery to bow hunting who jocko oh that's right that's right jocko's first bow hunt is going to be archery elk in utah oh that's amazing we have an awesome camp this is that's going to be great legit that's going to be legit oh we'll be doing some podcasts from there folks oh yeah don't you worry yeah i wonder if he'll still act as tough and cool as he – yeah, he will. I think he's going to keep it together. I think he'll probably be pretty stoic and just listen. Guys – He's a good learner.

People with that position, they know how to learn. He's a black belt in jiu-jitsu too. You don't get to be a black belt unless you're a good learner. Yeah. You might have to beat it into him, but. I don't think so. I don't think so. I think he's just going to listen.

Would it be fun if he, like, missed his first one and the elk just schooled his ass? Where he was, like, where he thought he could just tough it out. I would like to see him get a fucking 10 ring. That's what I want to see. Yeah. I want to see an elk drop the way my elk dropped at Tohon. Where he just stepped four steps and just tipped over that's what we all do this for you say it i say it cam says it

yep uh i don't know i it was a it was a super i'm so thankful that that day that you couldn't go that i asked cam to go with me because that was the first time that we've hunted together and i would say i mean we were both at ua for 12 years together never had hunted together and it was it was pretty cool once you get in a situation where especially a hunting situation where it's it's life or death yeah i mean for what you're pursuing the movements that you make and the choices you make they really define they do define you and whether people out there like me or don't like me or like cam or don't like cam all i can say is when we were in the moments that we were in that's the ultimate litmus test

for me like a hunting situation for me is a litmus test for a person for you i think it's someone that like actually goes into a real fight right from a it's a lot of things it's comedy yeah oh yeah i've i've gotten to become friends with someone then i watch them on stage i'm like oh i can't be friends with you anymore. Really? Yes. I was like, oh, my God, you're terrible. But then are there times where you're like, this guy I don't really know, but then when you see him,

you're like, you know what? Like 100%, you got my respect right now. Oh, 100%, yeah. And that's where it was at. You know, I can, I'm truly, I'm truly respectful and I'm honest when I say that. Yeah. Like, you know, I wouldn't have had Cam on my podcast if I wouldn't have said that it was an eye-opening experience for me. I had a very, very good time with him.

And I think we both kind of found a different different appreciation for each other he's an awesome guy i love him to death so it's so cool for me to see you guys become friends yeah it really is it's amazing i think comedy and bow hunting have one thing in common is that it's so difficult to get to that elite level then once you meet someone it's like how many of your you how many are there i mean how many like legit elite bow hunters are there are there even 500 on earth oh my god it would be way smaller same with comedy smaller way way comedy i think it's probably the same thing i mean i know i would offend people where people would be like what i'm not on that list but i think it's really small and and i'm talking on like not just a good level i'm talking on at least a level where if someone said listen dude you have you have like 10 cards to play. And these cards, every card has to hit.

Who are the people on this card? Yeah. It's small, man. It's small. It's small. Is that fair to say? Yes. It's 100% fair.

Yeah. I think there's many things in life. And there's a lot of different personalities within those. Like some people have different personalities. Some people get to the same place with a different path. And sometimes it's abrasive. Sometimes they're the fan favorite. But in the end, like the people that are within that realm, it's like the Big Brother house.

There's people that people are rooting for and there's people that people, you are like i don't know how that guy got there it doesn't matter he's there yeah right it's that old expression game recognizes game yeah yeah let's leave it at that my brother love you cheers brother all right everybody bye everybody see ya