The Joel Klatt Show: A College Football Podcast - Can anyone stop Ohio State? Texas survives & Penn St moves on + Michigan beats Alabama again

Episode Date: January 2, 2025

FOX Sports’ lead College Football analyst Joel Klatt breaks down Ohio State’s emphatic win over #1 Oregon in the Rose Bowl as the Buckeyes continue to look like the best team in the nation. He discusses what Ohio State has figured out in their last 2 games that has resulted in the back-to-back blowout wins in the CFP and whether anyone can beat them when they are at this level. He also explains why the CFP format let Oregon down before proposing a permanent site for the National Championship Game. Klatt then debates how to feel about Texas after they moved onto the Semifinal but did so by narrowly escaping an upset-minded Arizona State squad. He gives Cam Skattebo his flowers after a performance for the ages and gives his take on the controversial targeting no-call at the end of the game. Klatt also explains why Penn State’s win over Boise State was big for the program but also covered up some issues they’ll have to fix to win in the next round. Finally, he discusses Michigan’s win over Alabama and Illinois’ win over South Carolina and hopes that the narrative of the SEC clearly being the best conference this year can finally be put to bed for the good of the sport as a whole. 0:00-1:28 Intro 1:29-2:30 Sugar Bowl postponed 2:31-19:33 Ohio State blows out Oregon in Rose Bowl 19:34-25:31 Rose Bowl should be the National Championship game 25:32-39:34 Texas survives Arizona State in 39-31 win 39:35-47:57 Penn State beats Boise State 31-14 47:58-54:37 Have bowl results ended the narrative that SEC was the best conference this season? 54:38-55:22 Outro Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We lost the importance of the regular season, and because of that, the Oregon Ducks got absolutely hosed. College football has never been better. Interest has never been higher. Believe that we are at the dawn of the golden age of college football. It was an epic day of college football. It was one of those days where you fall in love with the sport all over again. Hey, welcome into the program. This is the Joel Clatt show.

I am Joel Clatt. The show is brought to you by Hampton by Hilton, and we have gotten these quarterfinal games now, not quite in the books, But three of them in the books, I just got home actually, drove back down from the Rose Bowls and Epic Day at the Rose Bowl. Got my little hoodie here. So I was very excited to go there with my family. As you know, it's one of the only games all year that I get to actually go and just sit with my sons and my wife and take in the game.

So I was there watching that Ohio State Oregon game, and I will react to all of that. Now, before we get started, I just want to reiterate, as always, wherever you like to social media, we're out there at Joel Clat Show. You can follow us. You can rate and review us wherever you're listening to this podcast.

And we'd really love you to head over to YouTube and subscribe to the channel. We've got some really cool stuff coming up in the new year here on the YouTube channel. So if you're there, congratulations. And if you're not, get on over there and subscribe and hit that notification button below. And you will be there and you will know

when we drop new content. Obviously, as you know, the horrific incident in New Orleans has postponed the Sugar Bowl. So here's what we're going to do. I will react to the three playoff games that we have seen. Notre Dame and Georgia is now postponed until probably as you're listening to this later tonight, which means that I will be back tomorrow with an emergency pod to recap just that specific game, Notre Dame, Georgia, the Sugar Bowl.

And I will just say this. I send out like my and all of us here at the Joel Glad Show are our deepest condolences and just know that I am praying for the families of those lost and those that have been injured in New Orleans. That's a horrific, horrific incident. And there's really no other words to put around it other than we're sorry and thinking of you and we're praying for you. Now the football games that did take place. Let's get into it. Okay, so we've got the quarterfinals of the college football playoffs. We had the game Penn State and Boise State. We got Texas, Arizona State. We've got Ohio State and Oregon. And everyone was waiting for this Rose Bowl. So let me

start there because that's the game that I think looking into this weekend, oh, I guess it's not weekend, but looking into this round of the college football playoff, this is the round that everyone was really looking forward to. This game is the one that everyone was really looking forward to. And Ohio State came out there, and my goodness, was that a performance in the first half or what? The Buckeyes were incredible and explosive. And in a lot of cases, it's like, frankly, overwhelming.

Now, I'm not watching it on TV. I'm sitting there and watching this thing take place right in front of me. And my sons looked over at me, and they were like, dang, Dad, Ohio State's really good. And I'm like, yeah, that performance early in that game was. an overwhelming performance in a positive fashion from the Buckeyes. My goodness. And if they play that way, this team is the best team in the country. And I know that a lot of us have said that for a long time during the course of the year, mainly because of their roster. And listen, you can evaluate their roster and certainly understand that they've got the deepest and most talented roster

in the sport. And what we're starting to see is them find the right combination to unlock that team's best. They're playing to their full potential. Ohio State played incredible football against Oregon in the Rose Bowl. That was overwhelming. And it's the best team in the country. I will just say this before we get into any specifics about the game, Jeremiah Smith and his performance in the Rose Bowl was outstanding. Congratulations, Jeremiah Smith, because you finally showed, and he showed it through the course of the season. But really, that was a coming out party. When you do that in the Rose Bowl, seven catches, what was it, 180 plus a couple of tugs. Like, this guy was sensational. A couple of those in triple coverage. Didn't matter what was

going on in terms of Oregon's plan. Jeremiah Smith was getting loose. I have never seen, well, let me scratch that. Twice in my life. I'm 42. I'm about to be 43. I've watched college football for my entire life. I played college football. And there was a moment when I was, I believe I was a junior in 2004. And we were playing Oklahoma in 2004. And Adrian Peterson was a true freshman. And I walked on to the field night and I saw him warming up on the other side of the field. And I was like, oh my gosh, that's the best football player on the field. And he's a true freshman right away. And I have that same reaction when I see Jeremiah Smith now. They're the only 18-year-olds, true freshman, that I've ever seen come in and just immediately, I think to myself, they're the most

dominant individual on the football field. That says, high praise as I can possibly give him. He's that good. He is absolutely tremendous. And when they lean into him and allow him to be great, boy, they reach their full potential. They were attacking on. offense attacking right away early in that game. And when they do that, this is a team that's very tough to beat. So I've called a lot of Ohio State games over the last couple of years. I mean, a lot. I've called a lot of games watching Ryan Day call plays. I've also covered Chip Kelly quite extensively in my career and several times this year calling games, watching Chip call plays and go about it and seeing and evaluating Chip's offense versus Ryan's offense. I think

that the greatest misconception going into this season about Ohio State's offense is that this marriage in terms of the play caller with Chip Kelly and Ryan Day, the head coach, was like, well, they just run each other's offense. They've worked together before Ryan played for Chip, and it's the same offense. It's not. It's not. Chip Kelly's offense has always been a more run-centric, heavy offense with the emphasis on run of the football. Ryan's offense was always dynamic and explosive in the passing game. And we thought that the kind of like the marriage, maybe you would get the best of both versions.

The problem is, for the majority of the regular season, it was kind of, I hate to say it this way, because they were still really good in the regular season. But there was some clunkiness to it as that was kind of figured out. What we're seeing now in the Tennessee game, basically in the playoff, Tennessee and now in the Rose Bowl against Oregon, was the best version of both. you're starting to see like they unlocked this combination.

It's the best combination possible of what Chip brings to the table and what Ryan brings to the table. Because what this team can't do, and really maybe one of the only things that they can't do, but what they can't do is just run the football to get themselves started. And that's what Chip really wants to do. So you've seen games and the example would be like Nebraska this year or Michigan this year, when they were stubborn in terms of trying to get the run game going, and it never got going. Both of those teams, by the way, Nebraska and Michigan,

have really good, strong defensive tackles. And they couldn't handle the interior of those defensive lines. Okay, so they were hard-headed in those games. In the past, with Ryan's offense, they would have just started pitching it around. And Chip always hesitated to do that this year. And that's where the clunkiness kind of came in. And it was like, why isn't this offense with all this talent, like really firing and being explosive and being overwhelming?

And they just had to flip it. Rather than running to get the passing game going, they needed to get the passing game going and throw it early and often in order to pop some runs later. And now that's exactly what's happened against Tennessee and Oregon. So it's kind of this best combination of Chip's offense and Ryan's offense kind of melding together. I think that this spells real trouble for Texas who has to play them in the next round and the semifinal and whomever comes out of the other side of the bracket. Because if Ohio State plays offensively like they did against Tennessee and like they did against Oregon, they will win the national championship because they're the best team in the country. And to me, it's pretty evident. Now, on the flip side, Oregon is really good.

really good. I think the evidence of that is the way that they held their own after kind of the middle of the second quarter on. You see, in the stadium, it was overwhelming. And you're like, wow, this is an absolute route. And yet, Oregon just kept kind of battling and battling. And then you saw their explosiveness in particular in the passing game. Dylan Gabriel getting loose a few times when he wasn't getting sacked and pressured in the back end. And when he was elusive and he would find somebody down the field on like those little half scrambles and he would be able to find someone down the field. And then you look up and you're like, okay, they were able to move the football through the air. And it wasn't easy to do so. It was not easy to do so. And I don't think a lot of teams could do that. And I don't think a lot of quarterbacks could do that with the way that

defense is playing. So I give a lot of credit to Oregon for not folding in that game. In fact, they got that score right before the half. And then they came out. And I thought to myself like, boy, if they could just make this like a true three possession game and they got it to a three possession game and then they went out there and that's when they couldn't get the stop. And that's when Ohio State finally went down the field and I believe it was like, what was it, 41, 15 or something along those lines. And that's kind of what sealed the game. Oregon was just down too much because of the overwhelming nature of that offensive game plan from the Buckeyes in the first quarter. And it was. It was overwhelming. More on Oregon and

just a moment. But the defense that they were facing, I talk about the right combination of Chip's offense and Ryan's offense, kind of coming to fruition for Ohio State. Well, defensively, you know, Jim Knowles has been there now a few years. And what he was when he first got there was a guy that was heavy into pressure. And they would run a lot of what I would call cover zero, no safety's back, and they would blitz a lot. And what happened is that they got hurt against Michigan and Georgia a few years ago and got beat because they gave up big explosive plays. So then last year they were like, we're not going to do that. And we're going to limit explosive plays, and that's kind of it.

And then what happened last year is they couldn't get to the quarterback. And so it's a juxtaposition. What are you going to do? And they went into the Oregon game earlier this year, and they kind of sat back and they said, we want to limit explosives. But in the effort to limit explosives, what they did is they gave up explosives. Why? Because there was no pressure on the quarterback whatsoever.

When they would try to blitz. they did not get home. And when they tried to play coverage, they were singled up on the outside and they got beat down the field. So they had to change some of that structure. And so what happened is that they kind of married and unlocked the best combination of both, being aggressive like he was two years ago and being able to limit explosives on the outside. So this defense is now playing their best.

The offense is playing their best. There's one team peaking right now in the college football playoff. And it's Ohio State. that defense is playing so dominantly, and I'll tell you the reason why. It's nothing, yes, it's what Jim Knowles does and it's what he does in this game plan, but it's really the fact that their front six, the four down linemen and the two linebackers, are totally controlling the game. So when they can control the game, they can play exotic coverages in the back end.

And when they can play exotic coverages, there's nowhere to throw the football. And that's why you saw so many times Dylan Gabriel sit there and just pat the ball. He had nowhere to throw it. It's the same with Nico I, Maliava. He had nowhere to throw the football. Dylan had nowhere to throw football. It leads to sacks. Now they had, what was it, eight sacks and like 13 tackles for loss.

It was a dominant performance by that front six. It really was. And then when they do pressure, they get to the quarterback. I'll tell you what, man, they're peaking. They are peaking. So that Ohio State team, that's going to be tough to beat. Now to Oregon really quickly. Oregon is a really good football team, a really good football team, because the way that Ohio State team played, it could have gotten a lot worse.

To be quite honest with you, like 4121 was a bit respectable for the way that the Buckeyes played. And I only think a few teams in the country could have kept it at 4121. Oregon was one of those teams. I have an immense amount of respect for Dan Lannning and the Oregon Ducks. That was a remarkable regular season. It's a heck of a football team. and they got kind of hosed with the structure of this college football playoff. But first, why do I have an immense amount of respect for Dan Lannning?

He always takes the high road. I love the way that this guy talks to his team, about his team, and to his fan base. As evidence, here's Dan Laining after the Rose Bowl. It's an unbelievable team. Coach Day and his staff have done an unbelievable job there. Don't want to discredit what our players have been able to accomplish this year. We have a great team. You know, we just ran into a great team tonight. and we didn't play our best.

I just don't think we had a good enough plan as coaches, you know, tonight. And we've got to find ways to prepare ourselves for these moments, you know, better as a coaching staff. But I love that team. You know, and those guys came out on top tonight, you know, obviously that's a team I think that has the ability to go win it all. Man, class guy. He is a class act. I'm a huge fan of Dan Lending. I really am.

And a huge fan of the Oregon Ducks. And they're going to be back. They'll be back in this position. And he's going to be sick about this game. And here's the thing as a coach and even as a quarterback. When you win, it's we and when you lose, it's me. That's the way, if you are a leader of any organization, whether it's a small group, a business, if you're a young quarterback out there, if you're a coach out there of any sport and you're listening to this podcast,

I will just remind you, when you win, it's we and when you lose, it's me. And when you listen to Dan Lannning, he understands that. He's not blaming the players. He says how much he loves the players. He gives the due credit to the opponent and talks about how good they are rather than the mistakes that they made in terms of his own team. And then when it comes to the blame game, what does he say? We didn't do a good enough job as coaches with our game plan. It's me.

When you win, it's we. when you lose, it's me. And Dan Lannin understands that. It's one of the reasons why I really like Dan Lanning. I really do. This is a team that deserved better. This is a team that had the best regular season of anybody in college football. And this is supposed to be a sport that we care about the regular season. We've been trying to maintain the importance of the regular season through all of this postseason formatting.

And yet, in that effort, we lost it. We lost it. We lost the importance of the regular season. and because of that, the Oregon Ducks got absolutely hosed. And Dan Lannning is not going to say that, and he's not going to take that excuse. He's not going to sit there and say, hey, we shouldn't have had to play Ohio State of all teams, for goodness sake, after going undefeated and winning the Big Ten championship and being 13 and 0. He's not going to take that bait.

But guess what? I will say it for him because what was given to us as a structure was totally flawed. And then with that flawed structure, the committee gave us, really poor seating. Everyone wanted to talk about who was in at the back end of the bracket. That was never the problem. That was never the problem with the college football playoff. The problem with this iteration of this playoff and this bracket was the seeding.

Now, again, part of that structure, not the committee's fault, part of it was their fault in terms of how they seeded teams. Texas and Penn State should have never been seated over Ohio State. Who did that hurt? Not Ohio State. It doesn't hurt Ohio State, okay? They were going to have to play the first round game anyways, just like those other teams. They were going to host anyways. Who did it hurt? Oregon. It hurt Oregon.

Okay, so the one team that deserved, deserved, the most favorable draw in the playoff actually got the worst draw in the playoff. And that's not right. So the structure in some way is going to have to be fixed. It's going to have to be fixed. Think about the scenes that we saw in the first round at home sites in some of these environments. And it was fantastic. College football is meant to be played on campus, at least in my estimation. And I think most people's estimation.

And I thought this round was not quite as exciting because it lacked the home campus environment. Oregon deserved a home game. they deserved to not only have a buy and get the rest, but have a home game. You saw the advantage in the first round. Remember when everyone was talking about like, oh, Indiana doesn't deserve this and SMU doesn't deserve that? And no one wanted to acknowledge how difficult it would be to actually go into some of these venues and win until it was their beloved Tennessee.

And Tennessee got absolutely boat raced out of the shoe. And then it was like, oh, man, well, yeah, these environments are tough to win in. Well, why didn't Oregon get that same chance? So again, structure and seating. The seating was wrong. Texas and Penn State should have never been over Ohio State, and the structure was wrong. Having Boise and, frankly, Arizona State get buys probably needs to be changed.

Now, I don't know exactly the structure that I would argue for. We are going to have a commissioner episode. I will give you 10 of my fixes that I would throw out there for college football. That's coming up in the way. weeks ahead. But right now, you just look at this, and Oregon deserved better. Duck fans, I think you deserved better. You showed out at the Rose Bowl, though. I will say that. It was quite a showing by the duck fans out there in Pasadena. It was really good. You deserved a home site, not a neutral site. And I will just say this about the neutral site. I think that the neutral

sites are really taxing fans. Having this many neutral site games is not good for our sport. We have to change this structure. And I've said this time and time again, and I will say it again. The bowl system and the college football playoff does not mix. It is old college football and new college football. We need to do a full gut job of the postseason, a full renovation of the postseason, not a paint job. Okay. And the fact of the matter is is that the people that are going to bear the brunt of this, because listen, the environments were fine. I've got nothing against the bowl system. Really, I don't. I love the Peach Bowl. I love the Fiesta Bowl. And I love a lot of these things. But if we're really honest with ourselves, there's only a couple and really one that carry the weight of like, oh, man, the Rose Bowl game. And yet we continue to try to shove all these neutral sites into this playoff format. And I understand that they were contractually kind of like handcuffed in terms of getting us to the 12 team playoff before 2026. And rather than get into the minutia of that, they give us the playoff and it has to be played in bowls.

But what happens is that it's basically just taxing college football fans. Do you know how many times I heard today walking around the Rose Bowl like, oh, man, I don't know if I can go to Dallas and. Atlanta because now Ohio State's going to have to go to Dallas to play the Cotton Bowl. And if they win that one, they would have to go to Atlanta to play in the national championship game. So Ohio State was going to have to go host, then Rose Bowl, Cotton Bowl, Atlanta. So you expect thousands of Ohio State fans to just like pay thousands of dollars three different times within the span of a month? That's pretty short-sighted. I don't think that that's good for the sport. I really don't. You look at some of these teams that have to play

in a neutral conference championship game like Texas, who's still in it. So they go to Atlanta, then they have to host, then they go back to Atlanta, and now they're going to have a Dallas game, and they're thinking of themselves, thankfully, it's just in Dallas and the Cotton Bowl as they take on Ohio State. And if they win that, they've got to go back to Atlanta. So I'm sorry, you want the Texas fan base to go to Atlanta three times in a month and a half? And then you look at the ticket prices and just the overall market for these tickets in all of these games and these neutral sites. And it's a soft market.

It was even soft for the Oregon Ohio State game. You could go on today and get tickets on any site. So why? Why? Because it's a tax on college football fans. And again, like I think we're asking too much of fans to go through all of these neutrals. So would I change it? Yes, I would move a lot of this more towards the campus.

I would also move the season up towards ending on January 1st. Why would I do that? Because there's one game. There is one game in college football that stands above all of them. And it's not the national championship game, in particular on some dumb Monday night in a dome. I'm talking about the Rose Bowl game. It is the most special sporting event in our country outside of the Super Bowl.

The Super Bowl has become almost a de facto national holiday. And we do have a national holiday on January 1st. And the Rose Bowl is the preeminent sporting event in our country. So as college football, why don't we just sit there and do what is so obvious, which is grab that game? The Rose Bowl should unequivocally be the national champion. championship game. That setting is magical. It would provide an anchor destination for college football like the World Series is for Major League Baseball, like the Super Bowl is in the NFL, like the NBA finals. It would be like Omaha, the College World Series in terms of their baseball.

It would be the destination. We would no longer be trying to win a national championship. We would be trying to win the Rose Bowl. It's better. Everyone, would be on the run for the roses. It's like there are only a few events in our country, you know, the Kentucky Derby, the Masters on Sunday in particular, the Super Bowl. Like, there's only a few that it's like, man, like those are premium. And we have one in college football.

And we shove it into a quarter final with two more rounds to go. Like, grab it, grab it. In the season on the first, it fixes the. calendar for the transfer portal and it creates an anchor destination for our sport. The Rose Bowl is the most magical place to watch a football game on the planet. I see games everywhere, all over the place. That place is magic. So college football, it's one of the only things that we can take from our past and make

prominent in our future because old college football and modern college football are not going to mix. So when we find things that can mix and we can accentuate like an old fireplace and a great renovation, and we can say, oh yeah, that was original. Our fireplace has to be the Rose Bowl. It has to be. And it fixes all of the calendar issues to try to get the season finished by January 1st. What I just witnessed and what I witness every single year at the Rose Bowl game should absolutely be college football's pinnacle tent pole event. Now we got on that rant. Let's go to the Peach Bowl. Texas beats Arizona State.

Man, what a game that was. An overtime game, Texas beats Arizona State 39-31. Do any of us really think that Texas deserved to win that game? Because Arizona State outplayed them all day. The numbers are staggering, by the way, for the Sun Devils. Staggering in terms of what they. did from a total yardage standpoint and how many more snaps that they had. Like this Arizona State team played phenomenal.

Now, they made some really bad mistakes, and those mistakes are going to end up costing them the opportunity to move on in this tournament. ASU outgained Texas. They had 37 more plays than Texas. They had 200 plus rushing yards. Texas had like, what, 63 or something along those lines? it was a thoroughly dominant performance from Arizona State outside of the fact that they were down to scores all game.

It was one of these strange, strange types of games. And listen, to be fair, to be fair, I will say, one of the reasons why they had such a staggering advantage in terms of time of possession and number of snaps is because Texas scores in two plays to basically open the game and then they take the punt back for a touchdown. So right there, you're kind of eliminating maybe the potential of two long drives. And so I understand that.

And if I'm a Texas fan, I'm certainly arguing towards that end. But the way that Arizona State kept chipping away, kept coming back, 510 yards of total offense, 214 on the ground, 97 total place, held it for 37 minutes. Cam Scataboo is a legend, man. this guy, he was unreal. 38 touches and a fourth down pass. This guy was unbelievable. I've never really seen anything like it. I mean, in particular, just the effort given by Scataboo

to try to get his team in a position to win, which he did. He got them in a position to win. And the fact that they come up short, he's got to be sick. Kenny Dillingham has got to be sick. Arizona state fans have got to be sick because they had their opportunities. Listen, I'm going to get into some of the controversy, but I'll just tell you this. If you were to talk with the coaches before the game and you talk with Kenny Dillingham,

and you told him, hey, you're going to get stopped on fourth down several times inside of your own 40. you're going to have a field goal blocked, and you're going to give up a punt return for a touchdown against Texas. He would have said, oh, we're going to lose by a couple of scores, if that happens. So the fact that Arizona State was even in the game is a testament to the sun devils and their defense, the way they shut down Texas's run game, which was totally shut down.

Again, we've seen it now against Georgia twice and now against Arizona State, which is just totally hit or miss now with the longhorns and more on that a little bit. So Texas gets the special teams punt return score and then they get those stops on fourth down and that's really the game. And I'll credit, by the way, Quinn Ewers, I said he was the one that I was questioning. Yours was the guy that kind of made this happen. The long drive in the second half, really the only thing they did offensively outside of that opening few minutes of the game, that long drive in the second half, he was.

making plays. You go to overtime. He's making plays on fourth down and in overtime. Like yours was, I thought, really good in this game. And going into the game, I was hesitant in terms of what he was going to give me at the quarterback position. Where Texas fell short was everywhere else. This dominant offensive line against Clemson did not show up against Arizona State. This defense that has been as good as anybody in college football during the course of the year did not show up, you know, against Cam Scataboo and the Arizona State Sun Devils. Now, did Scataboo have to go just, you know, subhuman, not even superhuman, like subhuman in order to get some of that production? Yes, he did. But Texas still gives up 500 yards of

total offense. So my question is, is like, how do we feel about Texas even in a win right now? I think that there are a lot of questions, a lot of questions. I'm looking at this team. and I'm wondering why they get stopped so much on offense. With this creative play caller and these weapons and this offensive line and this veteran quarterback, why is it that they're running for under 100 yards against Georgia twice and now against Arizona State, but then they can run it well against Clemson? Why is that? I don't understand.

Why is it that this offense can go so stagnant for large sections of time against quality opponents? why is it that? Why is it that the defense couldn't get the stops necessary outside of some of those fourth down stops inside of the 40-yard line? And my worry for Texas is that they're about to see a much better version of the teams that they've just struggled with. Ohio State is 100% better than Georgia on both sides of the ball. Ohio State is better than Arizona State. They have a lot more dynamic weapons offensively, a team that just put up 500 yards, you know, on you. And their defense is a better defense from a holistic standpoint,

from a secondary and front six standpoint. So like, how do we feel about Texas right now? And right now, if I was a Longhorn fan, I would be a little bit worried. They got the stops when necessary. And then yours showed up big time when he was needed most on fourth down. That was huge. That was huge.

Now to the controversy. Okay, so there's going to be a lot of conversation about this, this targeting. call on that last series for Arizona State. Here's the situation. If Arizona State can stay on the field and have a first down at the 37 of Texas, there's a really good chance that they're going to have a quality field goal opportunity. You can't say they would have won the game.

They would have had a chance to kick a field goal to win the game. As it was, they have to punt it away. Now, was the targeting called on the field? No. Did review then get involved? and say, hey, let's take a look at this and see if there was targeting. Yes. All right. Let's go into this.

First and foremost, and I know you guys probably get sick of hearing this, but there are two versions of targeting. There are two different sections of the rule. One section of the rule just means at any point as a player, you cannot, with the crown of your helmet, strike another player in any part of him. So that's just like targeting with the crown. Okay? So that's one section of targeting.

The other section of targeting is there are players that are deemed defenseless. One of them is a category of like wide receivers finishing a catch. Once you're deemed a defenseless player by rule, then any contact to your head or neck area by any part of the body of the opponent is deemed targeting. What we're talking about is that section of the rule. Okay. So Arizona State completes a ball. It's third down. And I believe it was Michael Taft comes up and bam.

And there's a big hit. No penalty. No penalty on the field. But as they're tending to the Arizona State player, they go to the review. Once targeting is being reviewed, it's totally different than all other reviews. And this is what I think is really important, really important. I didn't hear the commentary because I was sitting there and this was right before the kick of the Rose Bowl. So I'm sitting there and we're trying to watch a screen.

And it was hard to actually pick out what was being said. But once review is looking at targeting, they are reviewing all aspects of the play. Okay. Why is that important? Because it's the only review process that behaves that way, where they review all aspects. In every other review, the call on the field is being basically evaluated. Was the call right or not? And I have to have indisputable video evidence in order to overturn the call on the field.

When it's targeting, it's totally different. You go in blank slate, blank sheet, and you just say, is this targeting or not? So those are two very different ways that review is supposed to operate. All right. So once review has this play in their purview, it's 100% targeting. And I hate targeting. I hate targeting. I've been one of the biggest proponents of or opponents of the targeting rule in college football. But as a rule, that was 1,000 percent targeting. There's no other way to evaluate that. It was a defenseless player that got contacted forcibly in his head or neck area, period.

There's zero chance that that can come out of the review and them say, that's not targeting. because it is. It is by rule. By rule. What I dislike about the targeting rule is the ejection. What am I an opponent of? Well, you know, it's not going away, first of all. So what I don't love about the targeting rule is that we're ejecting the player. And so what's happened is that the penalty is so penal to the individual that we've tried in review and in officiating to keep players in the game, which I'm a fan of, which I'm a fan of. But the bottom line is, is like, if it's a rule, then call it consistently. The biggest issue here is that if that's the second quarter, that's 100% of targeting.

If that's the third quarter, it's 100% of targeting. I believe it was not called targeting for the sole reason that it would have given Arizona State a first down late in the game with a chance win the game on that drive. If it's not in that spot on the game, that's 100% a targeting call. So you might be thinking to yourself like, well, doesn't this get into like, should we or shouldn't we swallow the whistle? Should a call really determine the outcome of a game? I will tell you this. I've been a proponent of on-field officials having a lighter whistle or swallowing the whistle late, in particular when you're talking about calls that really could be called on any play at any given time, like a hold or a grab here or there, or some contact here

between the defensive back and the wide receiver. Those are really tough bang, bang, judgment calls that could go either way at any point in the game. So unless it's egregious, I tend to lean in the like, hey, let's let them play late, which is exactly what was going on in this game, because the official didn't throw the flag on the field. Now, the official on the field has a far different job than the review official in the booth. Once that play is in the review, it should have been called a targeting because then it's letter of the law. Now you don't have the nuance.

It is or it isn't. You're reviewing it. And it was. So that call going against Arizona State was awful, man. I tell you what. Absolutely awful. Should have been called. Wasn't.

Texas goes down, misses the field goal. They get a reprieve. they go into overtime, and then the big killer is, Arizona State has fourth and 13 with their defense on the field and yours goes to Matthew Golden for a touchdown. Great call, great route, great throw. Give Texas a lot of credit. That takes serious stones. A couple of things from the Arizona state side. Would have loved to see some pressure. And as a safety, you cannot let Matthew Golden run right past you right down the seam. They're running a quarters look and quarters is a little bit different the way the safety has to play. He's in what's called a pattern read. By the way,

we're going to have a X's and O series, and I did a video on this that we're going to be releasing here at some point in the next month on coverages. And I talk about a safety and a pattern read and what that means. And what the safety was doing from Arizona State was that. He was pattern reading number two. If he goes vertical, he's got to take him vertical and he's getting a vertical route in his face and he never goes with him vertically. And there's Golden for a touchdown on 4th. and 13. So now you've had several opportunities inside the 40 and failed on fourth down. You've getting a field goal blocked. You've given up a punt return for a touchdown. And you've got fourth and 13 with your defense on the field and the game on the line and you can't get

off the field. You see, folks, to win these games, you still have to make plays. You can't go back and just say the call lost us the game when all the other things also took place. And that's exactly what happened. There was way too many mistakes. Arizona State makes any one of those plays and they likely win this game, but they didn't, and Texas did. Texas returned the pump for a touchdown. Texas got off the field on fourth down. Yours made the play on fourth down on fourth and 13 and gets into the end zone to Matthew Golden.

Those are the plays that are made that ultimately determine the game. And that's where Texas really stepped up, man. I tell you what, that was a huge win. And now Sark and the Texas Longhorns for the second straight year are going to be in the national semi-final after they take. care of Arizona State. The last game that we're going to talk about tonight, Penn State over Boise State. That Fiesta Bowl was sloppy, lots of penalties. Penn State beats Boise State 31-14 in a game that really shouldn't have been as close as what it was. Now, to be fair,

all of these teams, or these two specifically, are going to think to themselves, man, we left a lot on the table. You know, I'm sure Boise is kicking them. They had a touchdown called back that would have made it, what was it, 24, 21, something along those lines. And it gets called back. And then a couple of plays later, they try to go down the field and it's a pick. You know, so it was sloppy and it was a bit of a clunky game. But the issue is that the reason that Boise was in this game at all is because Penn State allowed them to be in the game. Penn State's game plan was off.

I don't know any other word to kind of call it. I'm sure if I was a Penn State fan, I would say frustrating at a minimum. Because Boise State right now, and I know they've played 14 games, but they have more sacks than anybody in the country. And yet, after Ketron Allen is very obviously the best player on the field and running it all over Boise State,

Penn State decides to just get pass happy. And I was like, what's going on? That was wild. And Boise's pass rush showed up, and Penn State kept trying to throw the ball. It was very strange to me. It was very strange to me. Boise has four turnovers and 13 penalties,

and I'm sure that the Broncos are sitting there and they're thinking to themselves, man, we left so much on the table. We should have been in that game and we should have had a chance to win. But the only issue is is that Penn State probably watches that film and they think to themselves,

why didn't we run that team out of the building? Because we had a chance if all we do is just lean into what was successful. You see, there's an old adage that I think coaches talk about, mostly play callers, but they'll say like, Don't get bored taking a profit. And you can say it another way. Don't get bored with success.

Excuse me. Don't get bored with success. Sorry, my throat all of a sudden, we were yelling at the Rose Bowl game and everything. So my voice is a little weak. This is what that means. Don't get bored with success. A lot of times you work for days and days and days

and countless nights. And a lot of times these coaches stay till all hours in the night, building a game plan. And you look in every single nook and cranny. And there are times during games when you can, as a play caller, start to try to, like, legitimize all of that work. And you're like, well, look at all of these plays. You know, like we prepared all of this stuff. and we think it's all good, so we want to get to it all.

When, hey, the first stuff you were running, like, they can't stop. So don't get bored with that. The greatest example of this that I ever saw play out in a game was the Patriots Rams Super Bowl, Brady, Grunk, Edelman. And it was a defensive game. And it was kind of an ugly game. No one was really doing anything offensively. And finally, New England started having a little bit of success out of an empty formation.

And they were running basically this empty set where they had short options in the quick game. They had long options down the seam. And it was all predicated based on the coverage look. So Brady had whoever he wanted to throw to based on coverage. And so they run it the first time. Bam, and he threw it like a hitch because he has free access. Again, I'll talk about free access in that schematics video that's coming out later. And Brady throws that one, and then they just come right back to it.

Josh McDaniels calls the exact same play again. And so the Rams changed the coverage. Boom, Brady throws it into the slot. Now he's got that because the coverage changed. And so now I've got an option over there. McDaniels runs the exact same play again. They changed the coverage. Boom, he goes back to the short side slot.

Same play again. I believe it was four straight times. And finally, they hit ground. on kind of like a seam fade for a touchdown. And they had changed the coverage four different times. And it was the greatest example of not getting bored with success that I've ever seen on the biggest stage in the Super Bowl, late in the game. I believe it was in the fourth quarter.

Penn State has success early in the game on their first couple of drives, running the football, and specifically with KTron Allen. They couldn't tackle him. It was going to be a problem for Boise State to try to tackle Ketron Allen. And yet, in the subsequent 2, 3, 4 series, it was like, hey, look at all these plays we designed in our game plan. So I was like, oh, man, let's not get bored with success. So as much as Boise is going to sit there and say, man, without this penalty here or there,

we have a chance to really make this a tight game. If I'm Andy Koldallnicki, the offensive coordinator for Penn State, if I'm James Franklin, the head coach for Penn State, I'm thinking to myself, we left a lot on the table. And it kept reminding me to myself, like, this is why Penn State has struggled with elite teams. Now, they can get away with this against SMU and they can get away with this against Boise State. But there's a reason why they haven't gotten over the hump of beating Oregon in the Big Ten championship game or beating Ohio State at home earlier this year. Now, they're closer this year.

They're closer. And I've talked about this. And if they can get over this. But here's what you can't do if you're Penn State is you can't allow a chance. team to hang around because of you. And that's really what I thought was happening in that game in the Fiesta Bowl, because they were totally stifling the run. They had shut down Ashton Genti completely.

He's a non-factor in that game. Maddox is doing his best to try to throw the ball and keep him in it, but that wasn't going to be enough. Penn State, if they just leaned into the run game, the throw game will come. You don't have to prove that the throw game is there. and they started getting into sacks, they started getting into penalties. I didn't love the game plan. And there is a reason why they haven't taken that next step,

and you saw it play out against Boise State. It looks like a great win. It looks fine and dandy. But the reason why they don't beat Michigan in previous years, why they didn't beat Ohio State, why they didn't beat Oregon is because of things like that. You cannot make those mistakes. Every series is vital.

And it's going to get more vital, as they go on, right? Because they can't just allow their defense to go out there and be like, oh, they'll stop them because we don't know what's going on with Abdul Carter, by the way. That's a different defense without number 11 on the field. He's fantastic. And we'll have to see what he gives us moving forward in this playoffs. We'll see. I hope he's back because he is phenomenal. What you see when Penn State tries to go pass happy is that they don't really have a dynamic number one wide receiver threat. I've talked with Coach Franklin about this.

He would say that their best players are Singleton, Allen, and Tyler Warren. Not to take anything away from Trey Wallace. I think Trey Wallace is a fine player, but he's a guy that you have to get to through the success of others. And when you can do that, then he can provide a real spark. They just need to lean into the areas that they have success in particular early in that game. Okay, a few more things that I want to touch on here in this pod.

Some other bowl games out there. Illinois beat South Carolina, Michigan beat Alabama, and I point those two out only because those two, Alabama and South Carolina, were really at the heart of a lot of that commentary that we heard over the first round of the college football playoff. And I just want to take a moment, because this is not going to be a victory lap.

I'm not going to try to claim some sort of like conference superiority one over the other. In fact, I'm going to argue against that completely. I think arguing about conference superiority is bad for the sport. I really do. And it's so clear to me that this idea, this narrative that is pushed quite heavily, by the way. And I think that you see it and I know that I certainly see it. But this idea that the SEC is clearly the best conference. And I want to be specific about the clearly.

The narrative that the SEC is clearly the best conference needs to die. It needs to die because it's pretty clear that it's over. And I think there are some people that are going to sit there and be like, oh, you know, like Clat's going to try to take a victory lap or relish in this. I'm not relishing in this, actually at all. It's just it just needs to die. and it's over because it's been proven to be over. Okay, the games have played out.

So let's just try to evaluate the games for what they are and the teams for what they are without all of this spin. And I'm hoping that that's the case. Big 10, 4 and 1 over the SEC in bowl games this year. Do I think the Big 10 was a really good conference this year? Yeah, yeah. I cover the Big 10, by the way. Do I think that the SEC was really good this year? Yeah, they were really deep this year.

But the Big Ten SEC matchups in the bowl season would suggest that the Big Ten has not only held their own, but done better than that. I mean, Michigan totally handled Alabama. Totally handled them. By the way, without their four best defensive players, they didn't even have Mason Graham, Kenneth Graham, Kenneth Grant, Josiah Seward, or Will Johnson on the field and just locked up Alabama. Alabama couldn't do anything offensively. Nothing. Nothing.

Okay. So, again, this idea that that conference is clearly the best. It needs to be over. And I believe that it is. I believe that it is. And the narrative that continues to be pushed, I think needs to die. Because that's really what the narrative was surrounding the first round of the playoffs. There were a lot of folks that were arguing and they, you know, they want to say like, oh, you know, I was just arguing.

randomly or aimlessly. No, no, no. I mean, it was pointed. Those were the teams that were left out. Bama more specifically. South Carolina, some of them, Old Miss. And it just, it hasn't worked out. And that's fine.

That's fine. See, here's the thing. The SEC is a great conference. I think that the Big Ten is a great conference. If I had to rank them, I would say the ACC was probably the weakest of the power four. The Big 12 was probably, next, then the SEC, then the Big Ten. But you want to put them in any different order?

That's fine. That's completely fine. And I cover the Big Ten. So I get it. A lot of you out there, and I see the comments, are going to say, like, well, Clat's just a Big Ten homer. Well, no, I cover the Big Ten. So I'm closer to the Big Ten. So I know the Big Ten.

So those teams, I know them much more intimately. I know what makes them tick. I know what gives them problems. and so like I just know them better. It's the same way on the other side. It's not their fault. They're going to just know the SEC a lot better. Why?

Because they're in that conference. And it leads me to kind of this idea that I think that the CFP made a huge mistake in going with a single provider for the playoff. Then, by the way, I would love it. But even if they just went with Fox, I think that would have been a mistake. The CFP should have been on multiple networks. Why? To balance coverage.

To balance it. Because they're now with a provider that has really one league. And so that's a narrative that we get pushed hard. And I think the rest of college football just doesn't like that. We just don't like it. In particular, when we see the games on the field and they're different than the narrative. That's the point. That's the point.

just let the games be the games. And I think that's what should have happened. I think all the voices should have been there. I think for the CFP to be its best, the structure would have been different. We would have finished January 1st. And I think every network would have been involved. I'd love certainly Fox to be involved, but it didn't happen. All right.

So they're involved. We aren't. I think all of us should have been involved. Fox, CBS, NBC, NBC. then you get like that that idea that like everyone's building to something really special rather than what we've had, which is like narrative. And I just, I'm not, I'm not in it for that. Last thing I would just say is like Ohio State lost to Michigan.

Alabama lost to Michigan. And all of that happens. after Michigan got Bryce Underwood to commit to play quarterback for them. So my question would just be, did anybody other than the eventual national champion, have a better finish to the college football season than Michigan? The momentum that Michigan is creating is staggering right now. They get Underwood, they beat Ohio State, they beat Alabama. Everybody in the playoff is going to end with a loss except for one team.

So it's like, who else is creating the momentum and the buzz for next year like Michigan? Number one recruit, Bryce Underwood, beat Ohio State, who very well could win the national championship, beat Alabama, without your tackles, without Josiah Stewart, without Will Johnson. Hello, what a month for the Wolverines. That'll do it for us tonight. Remember, I'll be back for a quick recap of that Sugar Bowl. tomorrow. And forgive me, I'm going on a quick vacation with my family, with my boys. So tomorrow's episode likely just going to be like an AirPod episode. But we'll do our best and hopefully make it sound the best we possibly can. And in reaction to that sugar bowl as Notre Dame

takes on Georgia. By the one, two and one on the picks against the spread. So just saying, you can follow us at Joel Class Show. Make sure to subscribe to YouTube. Because like I said, We've got content coming. So get over to YouTube, subscribe to YouTube, rate and review us wherever you get your podcast. And we'll be back tomorrow with a recap of that sugar bowl.