The Joel Klatt Show: A College Football Podcast - Daniel Jeremiah on Ohio State’s historic Draft Class + Player Comps & Draft Ranges for Top Prospects

Episode Date: April 13, 2026

NFL Network’s Lead Draft Analyst Daniel Jeremiah joins Joel Klatt to discuss Ohio State potentially making history with 4 Top-10 Picks and where it stacks up with the best Draft Classes in NFL history. They reveal NFL Player comparisons for top prospects in next week’s draft including Notre Dame RB Jeremiyah Love, Oregon TE Kenyon Sadiq and more. The two also break down how high - and how low - the most polarizing prospects in the Draft could go including Miami’s Rueben Bain Jr and Ohio State’s Caleb Downs. 0:00-2:24 Daniel Jeremiah joins the show2:25-11:23 Ohio State players projected to be top-10 picks11:24-17:15 Dillon Thieneman on Daniel Jeremiah’s top 50 prospects17:16-19:40 Who will be the first safety off the board in the NFL Draft?19:41-32:15 NFL comparisons with Daniel Jeremiah32:16-42:09 Ceiling and floor in NFL Draft42:10-45:05 Who should the Jets select at No. 2?45:06-48:22 Will Jeremiyah Love be drafted in the top 5?48:23-51:47 Will the Chiefs draft a weapon for Mahomes?51:48-58:03 Production vs. Potential debate Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/KLATT10Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ooh, I know that he go, could he go that late? Yeah, I think it's very possible. Is downs off the board. I'll tell you for a fact, I know some teams have it that way. Compare him to Jemir Gibbs. The ability to make people miss at full speed, like those guys can just tap into a different gear. If you don't get on the Jadarian Price train, yeah, I'm not feeling great about you having a running back. You think can start next year.

How do they not take them? They don't have to start a running back. A day like today is why we love college football. Let's dive right into it. my best friends and a guy that I probably respect more than anybody else in this business. But don't tell him. It's Daniel Jeremiah joining the program. This is always one of my favorite episodes of the year, DJ. So here we go. Thanks for coming on, man. How you doing? I could have done without the word probably. That would have been a little nicer, but that's okay.

You're probably one of my best friends, too. I probably think you're pretty good at what you do. One little word. Just couldn't help yourself. Got to stick that one more word in there. I knew no matter, no matter how much praise that I was going to put into the intro, I knew there was something coming in the opposite direction. What a caveat that you threw in there. Here we go. Well, this is, this is probably going to be a good episode. Here we go. I want to get into this draft.

Obviously, you and I are going to be covering it in Pittsburgh. I don't know if it's like super known, but obviously with the NFL network and the NFL network and the ESPN deal. Like you will continue to cover the NFL draft. This is going to be my last one. Like they ain't having me on ESPN. Fox ain't loading me over to ESPN anytime soon. So this is our last run at it in Pittsburgh, which should be really fun. And it's a really fun draft. One of the things that I talk a lot about is Big Ten football. And as you know over the last few years, Ohio State has been right at the forefront of that called a ton of these Buckeye games. And I wanted to start right there, DJ, because you are perfect.

historian perspective of what we're seeing right now with this Ohio State class that we're about to see this year on the heels of having 14 draft picks a year ago. We might have, what, four, five of these guys drafted in the first round, four of them in the top 10. The historic nature of what we're seeing right now out of this Buckeye class for this draft. Yeah, it's pretty nuts. I mean, the only thing I can compare it to is just the Miami run that they were on in the early 2000s. You know, that was like it was a period of just almost every year where you were seeing four, you know, first round guys and then running that depth all the way through. But it's not only, Joel, that they've had dudes.

Like this is another year where they've got guys. And you mentioned the four top 10 players. But these guys are having success at the NFL level, too. It's not like, you know, this is some overhyped group or a program that's living off their reputation. Like these guys are getting drafted high and rightfully so. They're playing really well at the next level. the the four top 10 picks, if it happens, obviously, just doesn't happen, right? Like you were talking about those Miami teams, just to give you a sense.

Like in 2002, Miami, five first round picks, including Ed Reed at 24. That was just before your time with the Ravens. In 2004, Miami had six first round picks. In the first 21, that was the Sean Taylor draft. He was drafted at five. In 21, Bama had six first round picks. three in the top 10. They had Waddle, Certain, and Devante Smith.

In 2022, Georgia had five first round picks, just off their defense, by the way, 15 total picks. But we're talking about the first time in the modern draft era, second time really in the common draft era, since 67 Michigan State that we could see four in the top 10. And here's what's interesting about this class for Ohio State. And you mentioned the guys that have had success from Ohio State in the National Football League.

one of them is specifically at wide receiver and it's carnell tate and carnell tate wasn't even the best receiver on his team in college and is likely going to be the number one wide receiver taken in this draft and all of us me included and i'm sure you as well believe that because he's from that lineage and he showed what he did at the college level he's likely to have a lot of success and being the top 10 in this draft yeah when you look at it you pull up all those first rounders the wide receiver position. Really, Marvin is the only one who hasn't lived up to the reputation, you know, and he's been okay.

He just hasn't lived up to the billing of where he was picked. Those other guys have all met or exceeded expectation and done it relatively early in their career. I wonder to myself about the Cardinals quarterback situation. And because, like, for instance, and I think you and I talked about this, when jason when jackson when jackson smith and jigba went to seattle uh i was like oh i was like dang like that's well that's not great because they're not built to use him and then all of a sudden they get darnled and you know they change some things up offensively and he has a monster year and he was one of the best wide receivers in the league i i wonder to myself you know i know that's a little

bit of a knock maybe on Kyler, but I wondered to myself, like, what Marvin could do if he stays healthy and gets a better quarterback and what he could do in the league. Yeah, I think that's fair. I would just counter that with Michael Wilson, like the last half of the year last year for the Cardinals was really good and played better. And Drame McGride has been really good. So they've had some guys that have put up numbers and done some things. But sometimes it can just be the system that came in there. That system, you know, they had D.K. Metcalf in Seattle as kind of the guy. What D.K. goes out. New system comes in and to your point, JSN explodes. So I'm still holding out hope there. And again, I don't think

he's in bus category. He just hasn't, you know, for the the hype that was out there and what he was going to be. And I think also the fact that he went to Arizona as such a high pick. And you've got Larry Fitzgerald and what he did, obviously different quarterbacks, different offense. But that was kind of the standard. So I think if you're looking at it from their standpoint, going, okay, this this Valley Hood dude comes in here. And it hasn't been exactly what we thought. When you go through the rest of those guys, it's impressive, man. Yeah. Okay, how about some of these other buck guys? Let's go with two guys at positions that are going to be undervalued, I think, safety and off the ball linebacker. We've got Caleb Downs and we've got Sonny Stiles. And these two guys are two of my

favorite guys in the entire draft. And now you're going to wrestle with that question about, well, do you take a safety in the top six or seven? Do you take an off the ball linebacker that high, how high is too high for these players. They're not only great on the field, but they're great off the field. Talk to me about this wrestle that these, you know, NFL organizations are going to have with these positions off the ball linebacker and safety with Downs and Sunny Stiles and where you ultimately think their value ends up. Yeah, I mean, I've got them way up there. I mean, Sunny Stiles is my third player. So I'm a, I'm a huge fan of his. I have Downs at or nine. I've gone back and forth.

Him and Mansour Delane. I wake up in the morning and just see which one I'm going to pick out of the hat. I just kind of go back and forth with those two guys throughout the process. But to me, it's about what is your plan for him and how can he impact your team? Like I'll give you an example. Sonny Stiles. If you are Sala and you've seen and coached Fred Warner and know what Fred Warner can do in that scheme and how impactful he can be with what he does, you should have no problem taking him with the fourth overall pick. if you're the New York Giants and you're looking at Sunny Stiles and you're going,

okay, well, I got the future of this division, I know they didn't have the year they wanted to last year because he got hurt, but the future of that division is Jaden Daniel. So how do you defeat Jaden Daniels? Well, I like to have guys at the second level that can get to him on the perimeter when he decides to go. And then also have the length and range that when they want to try to RPO us and throw us in the middle of the field, we can clog all that with all of our size length and athletic system. Like he is the perfect player to try and defend someone like that. And, you know, obviously, that Hertz can move around, that can move around.

I think having a player at that level that can do all that stuff and handle the communication on top of it. But I can make a very strong argument for those guys in those places. And then when you get to downs, look, I tell everybody, it's not a lock. He's going to go in the top 10. We live in a world where Derwin James somehow didn't go in the top 10 where Kyle Hamilton didn't go in the top 10. And we just saw him and Warre going the second round. So, you know, in terms of how high he goes, it's a little more difficult to, project. But when I'm looking at specific teams and I'm looking at Cincinnati and I'm looking at

where they are as a team and I'm thinking, okay, this is the worst rush defense in the NFL. And then you say, well, then why the heck are they taking a safety? Because I can ask the guy who called all of his games. I think he can impact the run defense as much as he can impact what he does in the passing game. I think I would actually say maybe more. Yeah. Maybe more because his, here's, here's how I would put it. His margin as compared to another safety, like a, you know, who are the other guys? Like Thineman. Yeah, a McNeil Warren. McNeil Warren at a Toledo. Like his, his margin and past coverage over those guys or against those guys versus those guys, I think is kind of like, okay, you know, I like his instincts a bit more. But then you, you put their cutups against one

another and then even other safeties in the league in terms of instincts against the run playing low playing in that little joker position that they had him in a lot where they would put the linebackers pretty wide and they'd set him at eight or nine and just kind of let him go and he plays he plays like another linebacker even at his size which is which is really crazy so the margin that he has above those players when it comes to run fits and instinct in the run game i think you know grows at least in my estimation. And then the other part that I would just say about Downs. And this is why, like, I mocked them to Dallas.

Just because Dallas, Dallas has two picks. They've got a chance to get two really good secondary players, in particular if Downs fell to them. Because they could get a corner later in particular with some of the things that these top corners are dealing with from an injury perspective, like McCoy from Tennessee, so on. But DJ, the thing that I think is really, really interesting about Downs is that, in the middle of all of this draft run that Ohio State has been on,

and in particular on the defensive side, they built the defense for Downs. Schematically, it was all about Caleb Downs, in particular after the loss to Oregon in their championship year, they totally rebuilt the structure just for him to be more impactful so that he would be at or near the ball more often than he was prior to that game. So that's something that I think is fascinating. what they did in that year. That's what Matt Patricia continued to try to do this,

this last year there in Columbus. All right, let me, let me move on. Can I ask you one question, though, real quick? Because you mentioned another name. It's not a Buckeye, so are we allowed to do that? Yeah, okay. We're, trust me. You mentioned one. You mentioned one. So I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to rely on you for some info here. So, uh, Dylan Fieneman. Yep. When you did, how many Oregon games did you do? Uh, only to the last couple of years. Okay. Did you, did you, did you get a chance they ever talked to Tosh about Thenema? Yes, and Dan. Okay.

Talk to both of them. They loved Dylan Thineman. And I'm, I'm, one of my college teammates was Ryan Walters, who Thineman played under at Purdue. So like I've talked to him at length about Thineman. How do I want to put this? I don't want to throw those guys under the, under the bus. They loved him, raved about him. Yeah.

So they never said anything poor about, about Thiena. Thineman went out and got him in the transfer portal. But they wanted him to fulfill a role that they saw in the Rose Bowl being played against them when Downs and Ohio State beat them up really bad in that Rose Bowl. And they brought Thineman in and kind of played him like Ohio State plays Caleb Downs, which is way different than what Purdue did. He was a center fielder at Purdue. Correct.

Because Ryan Walters, when he was at Purdue, just runs cover one. with a really deep free safety. And he was so good in that freedom area where he was just a post safety and he could roam around the field. I felt like Thinaman, as good as he was last year for Oregon, and he was good.

He's better as a post safety, which is what he played at Purdue. So that would be my like insights or instincts on Thineman. So here's why I was going there. Because I've had people tell me that when the scouts went through there this year. And I'm with you, by the way, just to backtrack a second. I like him better as opposed.

I like his Purdue tape better than I even like the Oregon tape. And his Oregon tape's not bad. No, no, it's fine. But I just like he's more impactful. He's more impactful to me in the middle of the field. But guys that went through there that talk with Tosh, when they talk to Tosh, Tosh raves about this dude. Absolutely loves him.

Talks about he's one of the smartest players, one of the best players he's ever coached. So this is why I wanted to get, I wanted to get confirmation on that, just from whatever conversations you may have. with them because for this reason, which is why they thought they could do what Ohio State did with Downs is because that's in order to play that position, you have to be so smart. So they brought them in there like, man, this guy is off the charts. Yeah. We can do that.

And they actually mimicked, if you watch it, they mimic the scheme that Ohio State ran to beat them up. And they come out last year and that's what they were running. So here's why I asked you that, though. So here's how like when we're getting ready for the draft, these are the fun things that I've been doing. So I hear that. I got that piece of information. Okay. Cowboys, you just mentioned as a Downs team. The Cowboys have a glaring need in the secondary and its safety position.

Posh Lupoi, who we've just established Loves Thineman, where was along his journey, where was he at? He was at Alabama in, in 20, gosh, he was there from 2014 all the way to 2018. Yeah, he was there for a while. He was a Co. D.C. in 2017. You know who the, who was coaching in that secondary? It was Derek Ainsley. You know who coaches DBs for the Dallas Cowboys right now? Oh, I haven't put this.

Derek Ainsley. Oh, my. That's why I've been saying, I think Thineman could be the 12th pick in the draft. That's so good. And also think about. You're better at this than anybody is putting those pieces together. And then Parker, the new D.C. came from the Eagles. And look what they did in that one draft when we were there.

They get Quinnian Mitchell to come around and get Cooper to Jean. So you're looking at both those guys so athletic. They're both versatile pieces. You could do a lot of different. things with them. So this would be more of trying to find his Cooper Gene, I think, you know, in terms of just somebody you could kind of move around, do different things with not going to be, more going to be that center fielder, but they can also drop them down and do different things with them there. So, so wait, let me, I'm going to sit on this for a second because it's the Cowboys.

And this pick is going to be scrutiny. I mean, it's, it's one of the most, um, talked about picks of any first round. They got two is what, and they got two. And they, they, like you said, they've got glaring need in that secondary. in your scenario where you're seeing like a Thineman tie or putting those pieces together is Downs off the board. Because personally, I don't see a world where Thineman is drafted ahead of Caleb Downs. I would say, I'll tell you for a fact, I know some teams have it that way. I don't. Really?

I'm telling you some teams have it that way. Wow. So, and I'm not saying they do. And I would, in that scenario, I would have them taking downs. but if downs goes 10, you know, downs goes 11. I mean, any of those teams, 10, 11, 12 could all be in that. And look at Kansas City's picking nine. They've got issues in the secondary.

So I think that's the window. I think that nine to 12. And I wouldn't be shocked if both those guys are in that nine to 12 range when it's all set. And by the way, I'm a big fan of McNeil Warren as well. I have McNeil Warren over Theneham in by one spot. So he's, he's better. I think Thineman has better overall instincts. Yeah.

But at the football, McNeil Warren has like this. Nine force fumbles. Yes, this great ability, you know, to just get the football. And that's something that is really hard to teach. I had a conversation with an executive the other day. And he was, we're talking about, he was talking about mistackle percentage. And so he was saying that that's why he had Thineman over McNeil Warren. He's just a little bit, he's been a little bit better tackler.

So he told me that I think of the percentage, it might have been like the difference between like 13 or like 14 and 11 or something like that. I don't have numbers up top of my head. So I'm like, okay, well, then I just pulled it up because you can go through and sort it, right? So I go and pull those up. One of the, one of the miss tackles is down in the box,

they're pushed to crack with the receiver. He takes on the receiver, takes on the crack block. And then the running back is coming to his right. So then he tries to redirect. and reaches out and gets him with one arm and can't get him on the ground. That's a mistackle. Okay. So anyways, we're talking about a difference of like two to three mistackles over the course

of the entire season to make the difference in these percentages. And I said, but does the fact that this guy's force nine turn out, nine force fumbles in his career? Does that make up for the one or two different mistackles? Because for me, I'd rather have the football first. I feel like I'm Edward R. Rooney, Dean of suit nine times. Nine, you know, like, gosh. Yes.

Listen, I hear you. I hear you. But remember a lot of these GMs, and we'll get into this a little bit later, but a lot of these decision makers, it's not, how do I put this? It's like a prosecutor.

They have to be backed up by evidence. So they'll make up their mind based on what they can, what they can tangibly prove versus just like say, no, no, no, he's better or whatnot. But I'm not saying that you have to have McNeil Warren over Thineman. I mean, I literally, they're one spot away on my list.

I think I have one at 16 and one at 17. So they're both really good. Here's what I want to do next. We're going to do NFL comps. You're so much better at this than I am. My memory just evaporates. Maybe I got hit in the head more. Maybe I don't know. That's fair. But it's probably, I got hitting the head quite. I mean, I had like four or five. I mean, I had like some some legit concussion credibility over here. I played on for crying out loud back. That's good cred. That is good cred. I'm in double digits, but that's no one's surprised about that. How many of those are fastballs and how many of those are football hits, though? Let's be straight up. Did you ever get one of baseball? No, I didn't, I didn't get hit in the head. You just don't remember. I, I was hung over a lot. Why have done? Hensom

I'm dry now. Everyone made a bit. I've made a good decision there. All right, DJ, NFL comps. Who comes to mind when you're evaluating this player. You ready? Yes, sir. Jeremiah Love. Yeah, to me, body type-wise, there's not a clean one. Stylistically, I would compare him to Jemir Gibbs. A little different body type, but the ability to make people miss at full speed,

the past game value, and just a different gear. Like, those guys can just tap into a different gear. So I'll go with Gibbs. Do you love him as much as I love him? because I think he's probably, if you're not, I have Mendoza is my number one player. So do I. I think Love is probably the best football player in the draft.

He and R. Val Rees. There's two ways of looking at it. I think if you're saying we're drafting for an NFL team, obviously the quarterback position factors in. So I have Mendoza one. But if we were to rally the 40, I think I count of 46 people you've got working on this show and we were to go to the park and pick teams and you just go play at the park, Jeremiah Love would be the first.

pick. Of course he would. Chiarra's second, but she's up there. Catherine, I'm high on Catherine. No, Catherine's a captain. So like she's picking. So she's the one picking Jeremiah Love. Okay, so

that's, I love Gibbs. And I also, one of the things that I thought he did a great job of this year. And I talked with another, Todd McShay and I were talking about this. he got much better in past protection this year versus the previous years. And I said in that episode, it reminded me a lot of Trayvion Henderson in that regard,

who all of a sudden was the best past protector in the draft. And you can see it paid off for him early in his NFL career. Okay, NFL Coms, who comes to mind? We are evaluating Carnell Tate. Yeah, Carnell Tate, I'm going to pull it up because I wrote a bunch of these down when I was doing this stuff for the baseball cards when these guys get picked. Carnell Tate Oh, that's the wrong draft

So that's not going to help you I've done this all weekend I know I know his up top of my head Yeah I know his up top of my head Because I to me I compared him to a lobby A little bit You know just the vertical stuff I know Alabe's time speeds a little better

Think Tate's a little stronger But in terms of all those Ohio state The guys that have rolled through That was the one I thought he was most similar to It's fluidity down the field that he has and he's very smooth in that area. He was great in contested catches. And I think it's a trait that's hard to find,

the guy that doesn't panic down the field. And he certainly didn't. Was terrific on the opposite side and of Jeremiah Smith, who I think is probably the top pick in the draft a year from now. But we'll talk about that next year. We'll see. Yeah, exactly. He's kind of next year's Jeremiah Love in that regard.

But I'm a huge fan of, Carnell Tate overcame a ton in his life. Mom tragically was taken from him. Tell me about that. Tell me about, because I've just heard that this kid is so wired the right way. So I'd love to hear him about that. So tragically, his mom was taken in a shooting right, right when he basically got to campus as a true freshman. And he was from Chicago.

And so, you know, he has to deal with that as. a true freshman and losing his mom in a really tragic fashion. And everybody that I talked to in that building just said, this guy was rock solid from day one, used it as motivation, knew his purpose and matured every single day and got better every single day and used it as fuel and not as a crutch or an excuse. And this is something that I noticed when I would talk with him.

and then I saw him mature over the years. And here's the other part that I really, really love about Cornell Tate. And you have to have a very unique type of guy to do this because most really talented players that go into college football want to be the best player on their team or at least the best player in their room. And Tate knew that he was probably never going to be that

and yet still wanted to be there and compete because of the greatness of the room. Does that make sense? 100%. He wanted the lineage and the challenge of being in that room specifically. And I think it speaks to his competitive will and one of the reasons why he's so good down the field. And again, he could have just sat there and said, you know, Jeremiah Smith is better than me and I'm the number two and this or that. But man, he he was greedy for catches in a good way, in a very good way, and went out there and produced.

So that would that would be my two cents on tape. I'm also a fan of guys who don't drop the football. I was talking to somebody about a player the other day. I was talking with the GM. It was actually last night. He was going on, raving about a player. Run after catch. Run after catch.

I'm like, yeah, you're missing the catch part of that. Doesn't matter how well you run if you don't catch it. We had a good laugh about it. I think I know exactly who he was talking about. All right, NFL Combs. Who comes to mind when you're evaluating Omar Cooper? Yeah, Omar Cooper is just, he's just a mini-debo. you know, he's not, he's not as heavy as Debo.

But there's the run after catch stuff reminds me so much of Debo when he was coming out. Just once he has the ball on his hands, like there's guys that just hate to be tackled. He just doesn't, he won't go down. And then he's able to, you know, kind of elevate, play above the rim. Saw that, obviously, the big one against Penn State. But he's just an athlete and just kind of a little dog to him. So that's who we remind him that. Debo wasn't the most polished route runner when he was coming out.

I think he's a little more advanced than that. I still think there's room for him to grow. and develop there. But guys, just get the ball in his hands, and that's when the fun starts. I think there's a misconception that everybody that was really good at Indiana was a transfer, and that's not the case with Omar Cooper. Omar Cooper was an Indiana guy. He committed to Tom Allen and came in and stayed there when, you know, the JMU crew arrives with Kurt Signetti and bought in and developed and became just an outstanding player for them in that passing game. I think his feel for space is incredible.

They ran a lot of RPO's. No one threw more RPO's in last season than Fernando Mendoza. But part of that was because of guys like Cooper and Surat on the outside. And Cooper was outstanding. I'm a huge fan of him. And certainly I'll always remember that play because I was in the booth with Gus. We both lost our minds. We almost lost Gus that day.

I know. That's an all-time call. It's an all-time call. All right. NFL comps who comes to mind when you were evaluating Jordan Tyson? Yeah, Jordan Tyson to me reminded me coming out of college of Jerry Judy. Like Jerry Judy had a, had a freeness to him and like a creativity at the line of scrimmage. And he was just so like limber and loose and fluid and smooth.

That to me is what he reminded me of. I think people forget. I know Jerry Judy's had some high moments in the NFL. It hasn't been this consistently great ride. But when all those guys were in that class, remember that receiver class was stacked. He was viewed right up there, you know, near the top of that list. to come out of college. So that's who it reminds me of.

And I do want to clarify one thing that's out there because people have asked me about, you know, how physical he is, how tough is, you know, all those things. And I've said, look, I wish you would be stronger to the ball to finish in traffic, like combat catches. There's times where I don't think he's quite as strong there as it needs to be. And so that kind of is like, it gets wrapped up into strength and it's competitive in terms of like fighting for the ball.

But then, you know, as it works nowadays, people are like, oh, so you're saying because he tore his knee that he's not tough. And I'm like, this is not. There are two separate conversations there. Totally. Totally separate. You can be concerned about the injury history. Yes, there's been injuries every year.

And it's, you know, it's that. It's the collarbone. It's the hamstrings. But, you know, that to me is the durability thing is a real thing. But when I'm talking about the toughness and competitiveness, I'm not talking about overcoming injuries. I'm just talking about finishing on the ball in traffic. That's what I'm talking about.

Yeah, there's a different. Listen, Jordan Tyson's phenomenal. I love everything that you just talked about. I think my biggest concern is the injury history. Like, win healthy. This guy is an elite player. No question. An elite player.

But there is also a difference the way that he finishes catches between the hash marks versus a Mackay Lemon, who is just like tough as nails. Fearless. A tax the whole. Totally feel it. Fearless. Doesn't matter who's around. What defender, linebacker safety, doesn't matter. He's going to attack the football.

and that's a little bit of a difference. There's no doubt. Last comp, let's go tight end. Kenyon Sadiq. NFL comp. Who do you think of when you see Kenyon Sadiq? Yeah, there's two guys. So I'll go Vernon Davis being the, you know, the most obvious one.

I think it's out there just who's so, you know, twitchy and explosive and dynamic. I don't think you're talking about somebody who's going to be a real feel, option, rowdy, you know, tight end. You know, I think that you think about Kelsey and how he plays the game. not going to be him. It's going to be more about just, you know, speed, running away from guys and, you know, the strength to break tackles. It needs to be more consistent catching the ball. You know, too many drops this last year. But I loved his competitiveness. And, you know, Vernon Davis, when he wanted to, he could drive guys off the field as a blocker. So that's the

first one. The other one, people won't remember. But he does remind me when I watched Dustin Keller when he was coming out of Purdue when I was a young scout. Yeah, he was same kind of compact dude who could really roll. Speaking of those conversations, and I know you really value your relationships and the trust that you've built around the league and everything. Well, similarly, that's how I feel about coaches, you know, and in particular, coordinators and head coaches. And so I rely on what I would feel like is not just the stock podium answer.

So when I'm talking with a coach before a game, I rely on the fact. that I'm going to get different information than he's just going to give the press conference about a player. And so work hard with relationships. Well, I got that with Oregon. We talked about the theme and stuff already, but also Kenyon Sadiq, Dan Lending says,

Joel, everyone's going to rave about the way he catches the ball and it's great. It's phenomenal. And he's going to get drafted because of it. Watch a cut up of the way he blocks. Yeah. because he's, he was like, he's got dog in him. He wants to block. He wants to be good at it.

So he can flex and beat you or he can be in line and he can help the run game. And so I went back and I did it. And we did a whole package and we did the Oregon Northwestern game. Just watching him block because of that conversation that I had with Dan Laney. I felt bad for Montana State, by the way. That was like, because some games had just started trickling in early. So that was one of the first ones I watched. And I was like, he was not nice.

He wasn't playing well with those guys. He was not nice in the run game. He was finishing. Holy cow. Tough one for the Bobcats that day. That was not the matchup for them that day. What's up, Clatshow fans? If you're looking for a way to get out of the house or for a gift for your friends and family, I have your solution.

And it's Seat Geek. With over 35 million downloads, Seat Geek is the number one rated ticketing app. Now, there are more than 70,000 events listed like concerts, festivals, sports, and much more. Now, I know college football is several months away, but you can still still. score tickets to all of your favorite sporting events like Major League Baseball, NBA. You can even get tickets to the World Cup on Seat Geek. You guys know that I love using Seat Geek for tickets to games with my family because I know that Seat Geek has my back.

See, each ticket is rated on a scale of 1 to 10 so you know you're getting a good deal. Look for the green dots. Green means good. Red means obviously keep looking. Every ticket is backed by their buyer guarantee. And of course, I have a code for you guys. You can use code Clat 10 for 10% off your next set of tickets at Seatgeek. That's 10% off any tickets with promo code Clat 10.

Make sure you click the link in the description to download the app and have the code automatically added to your account so you can use it later on. Shout out to Seat Geek for sponsoring today's show. Okay, let's play another game here. We're just got the game show theme. Sealing floor. There's a couple of guys that I think are fascinating. one because of whether it's, you know, like position, it could be production over potential.

It could be off field news, you know, anything like that. So you've got kind of this idea of where's their ceiling, where's their floor in the draft. So not their evaluation, but kind of like team number in the draft. What's the point that they wouldn't get passed in the first round? Let's start with Ruben Bain. And before you start, obviously it got floated out there this week. about his 2024 horrible incident. There was a car accident. Someone lost their life. He was in the middle of that. Listen, NFL teams have known about this. DJ, you've known about this. Those of us

around the sport have known about this for a long time. So within draft circles, this is not going to be a surprise and likely will not affect the evaluation nor the value of Ruben Bain. But having said that, it's kind of on the forefront of the public's So I had to say that before I talk about Ruben Bain. What do you think is a ceiling and floor for the pass rusher for Miami? For me, I think the ceiling would be seven with Washington. I don't think it's Tennessee. I don't think it's the Giants or Cleveland.

So I think Washington would be the first team. And then I would say the floor, I can't see the Ravens passing on him at 14, you know, a team that can't rush the quarterback. and the team who values strength and edge setting, he's going to be able to do that. Plus he could kick inside. We don't know Matt at BK's what his situation is with the health that he's had. So he's somebody to give you some inside pass rush as well.

And what I loved about Rubin is his effort against the run. Like this guy is not a pass rush specialist. Like he plays his absolute tail off on every snap. And I loved that. I loved that. All right. We've already talked about downs a little bit. but we didn't get into a ceiling floor.

I know we mentioned Cowboys at 12. I have met 12. What do you think is a ceiling for him? Because let me throw this out. Yeah. I had a lot of conversations. So my man, Steve, Steve and I do everything together. Steve owns.

Steve was going to be a high pick at the park, by the way. I didn't mean to leave him out. 100%. Well, he's drafting the other team. You and I are not making picks, by the way. Steve and Catherine are making them. There we go. Okay.

Okay. So Steve brought up and I was like, gosh, he's so perfect for him. He's just like, wouldn't John Harbaugh love Caleb Downs? And I'm like, yes, that's perfect. A versatile safety for him probably doesn't, probably wants him to be a little bit bigger. But you tell me, from what you're hearing,

what do you think is a ceiling floor for Caleb Downs? Yeah, I don't think the giants are going to do that, but I would still, there's enough of a possibility that I would keep it alive. So I would say that would be the ceiling for him, would be number five. and then, you know, I don't like, you know, going lower on this, but, man, I'll probably, you know, I'll stick with Dallas as the floor, but I'm just telling you for the reasons. I've been shocked with some safeties in the past that I've had huge grades on and had them all the way up there and watch them slip and slide. So I don't know where I would put that at, but that would be, I mean, I guess I would say Minnesota would be,

the worst case scenario, all hell broke loose spot. There's definitely secondary need throughout the league. You know, so it's like someone's going to take him, I would suspect. Like there's no red flags. Play is great. Character is great. Off the field is great. There's no red flags with this guy.

And like I said, I like him. He's all the way up there for me. The, I would say this. And I'm going to be a little bit biased on this because I've called every single game he's played in the NFL. But when you watch Derwin James every week and you see that, what he does at six, three and a half, 220 pounds and how he runs. Like I like downs, but he is not Derwin James. Like that's how, that's how I would say that.

And Derwin James was the, what, the 17th pick? Yeah. So that's why I'm just like, hey, let's see how it goes. You know, we agree. We're speaking, we're singing the same song here about him as a player. But the league has done this before. So we have to wait and see where he goes. How about the other Notre Dame running back,

Jedarian Price, because he's going to be the second running back taken. Like this guy is really good and was the backup, you know, to Jeremiah Love, who was outstanding and the Doke Walker Award winner and a Heisman finalist. And Marcus Freeman has been upping the talent level. This is something that I've talked a lot about when I, you know, just get into the college.

oriented stuff on my podcast about when Brian left Notre Dame, he thought that there was a ceiling, but the ceiling was actually him. And Marcus has raised the ceiling from a talent perspective. And I think love and price are evidence to that, even though they were kind of like Kelly-esque in terms of recruits. Marcus Freeman has elevated the talent level at Notre Dame. And these guys are part of that. And Judarian Price is going to be probably the second running back taken. Yeah. And much like your compliments to me at the start of the show, I think you can eliminate probably there and just say he is going to be the second running back taken. And it's to me, if you don't get on that train, if you don't get on the,

the Judarian Price train, yeah, I'm not feeling great about you having a running back you think can start next year. This is a two starting running back draft. Now, we always will get some guys who will surprise us and be solid players, but to me it is not as a weakness in this draft. So I'm looking at him. I will put the ceiling. I'll go Seattle pick 32.

And then the floor, I'll go Seattle 32. How do they not take them? They don't have a starting running back. I was just going to say, I was like, love won't be there. No, and they're picking at a point in the draft where he's going to be right value-wise. He's a starter.

Yeah, he's going to have to buy some time because Charbonnet is coming off of injury. Correct. Sharper day's not even fully healthy. And like, he's fantastic. And they have to, they have to replenish that position with Walker walking out the door and going to Kansas City. By the way, who is it? Who is it the clips of this stuff? Is it Kiara that's doing that? Yeah, Kiara does that. Don't post it until it happens. If he gets picked, make us look really, really smart. Then you send this video out. Kiara. Next Thursday. Wait on this thing. Next. Wait on that clip.

Don't send that. We look really dumb when we say that and they just pass them, you know? That's right. But if they take him, send, send. You keep saying we. You don't have to throw a we in there. You. No, I mean, I'm just trying to, I'm trying to bring you along, man.

I appreciate that. All right. Sealing floor. Probably one of the best guys to do this. That's an all-timer, man. What an introduction. What a jerk. I mean, that's what they say.

By the way, now, probably, I don't know. Now that's my favorite intro I've ever done. Well done, man. I love it. Not even a probably. That is the, my favorite intro I've ever done right there.

How about David Bailey? Oh, who does he remind me of? That's a good question. Did I put a cop for David Bailey? Let me see this one. What do you think just ceiling floor? Oh, sorry. I was going, I was flipping games on you.

I know. I've been. David Bailey, two is the ceiling. And I like the chances of him going to. And I think four is the floor. I don't think. Okay. So this is what's fascinating to me.

And let's, let's stop right there. Because this was going to be kind of my last question was just scuttle butt. You know, like what are you hearing as we get closer? But I think that the, the first thing is, is this idea of,

of Arvel Reese, David Bailey, maybe Sunny Stiles. What do the Jets do it to? Because that's really where the draft starts, you and I and everybody else, probably believes Fernando Mendoza is going to the Raiders. And then it's like, okay, what are the New York Jets going to do?

And who are they drafting? And there's some really good players up there. They're all defenders. Where are they going? Yeah, first of all, there's no wrong answer. You know, if you told me any of those three guys, I think those are the three guys that comes down to. It's Bailey and Reese.

I think that's probably the main decision. But I think Sonny Stiles is such a freak show that you need to entertain it. You know, you at least got to put him in the conference. conversation and have it. So by the way, he's also an incredible leader. Yes, he's yeah,

you put the dot on him and not only you get in the communication and the intelligence on the field, but you're getting all the leadership and all that stuff off the field. So he belongs in that conversation. But I had gone early, I started off with Bailey in the process. And then I'd gone,

okay, well, the Jets, they've got three first rounders next year. It feels like this team that they're pointing towards 27. So, you know, the higher upside player is Reese. Like he's got more physically in his body than Bailey does. He's more of a hybrid player than Bailey. Bailey is the best pure pass rusher in the draft.

Arvel Reese might turn into Micah Parsons. Yeah. The ceiling there is unquestionably, you know, you can make a strong case. It's higher. So I had been thinking, okay, well, they're pointing towards 27, then just take the guy with the upside. And then I just, the more I look at it and the more talking to folks around the league who have, you know, connections inside that building,

it felt like there was more of a Bailey, you know, bird in the hand pick. This is a team last year. Where were they at? They were 31st in sacks. Now they brought in some guys in free agency, but nobody to the caliber of David Bailey in terms of the polish as a pass rusher. So you just want to get a sure thing. And when you have someone like Reese who can do a lot of different things,

that's great. But if you just want to go hunt the quarterback right now, I think Bailey is further along. And I think as a safer player just from that, from that standpoint, I know exactly what he does. I've seen him do it. And I'm just going to ask him to do the same here. Yeah, if you're asking me who has a lower floor as a prospect, Bailey or Reese, I would say

Reese, he's a one year starter. And you don't exactly know, like, could he just be an off the ball linebacker? I'm not sure. Could he just be a pass rusher? I'm not sure. He's really good at both. Could be great. It could be great as a hybrid style defender.

But his floor, you know, there's a little bit more risk. whereas the upside is obviously you get an insanely impactful defender on the field in the likes of Micah Parsons. That's my comp when I kept talking to him. That's what Matt Patricia and I would talk about is like this guy, he can do everything. He can rush on the edge. You can rush on the enter. By the way, not to go back and forth between Reese and Stiles. Stiles is one of the best blitzers from the linebacker position.

Especially the year before. Oh. So, you know, so, so, anyways, I think that's a fascinating question. You were, were you with us? You were with us, right, when we were in Vegas for that draft? Yeah. Yeah. So remember, that was Hutchinson and Trayvon Walker.

And it was, okay, it's such a, like, there's slightly different players, but it's a very, it's the exact same conversation. Hutchinson was a proven past rusher, polished, knew how to rush. Walker had more physical gifts inside of his body. And we went back, you know, how are they going to do it? well, obviously Walker goes first, Hutch goes next. And the other thing I would say is, and because Walker was such an athletic freak, it was almost like people forget Hutchinson's was a really good athlete, too.

He just wasn't at that freak show level athlete. Just as David Bailey's not some slug, the guy ran four or five flat, like he's super twitchy and explosive too. He's just not Reese. Now we look back on it. Both Hutchinson and Walker have both been paid. They both played at a high level. Like it worked out great for both those guys, and I hope it does for these two.

Yeah, that's, you and I talk about this all the time. In this process, this is the number one thing I cannot stand about talking about the draft is that if you rate a player higher than another or talk about something, then everyone's like, oh, you hate that player. No, no, no, no. They're both great players. I don't think there's a wrong decision that the Jets can make, which is a great situation for the Jets to be in.

The other pick that I find, well, there's two other ones that I want to talk to specifically about, for Tennessee. Like, gosh, does love get past Tennessee? I've been beating that drum. It's kind of a complicated discussion because I have stated for years and you know because we've had these conversations. Like I'm a firm believer in not wanting to waste any of your running back carriers. You need to have the pieces in place. And that's one of the last things you want to drop in. in there because the shelf life is short and you want all of those years all of those carries to be

meaningful it doesn't does it doesn't do you a lot of good if by the time your team is good enough this guy's got two years left or you got to decide where you're going to pay him you're hoping he's going to be able to survive health-wise going off into the future it's ideal if you have a team that's ready to go we just saw that last year with with gentie gentie went to a team that wasn't equipped so i've been those are my rules i've stated them i've lived by that mantra however this is a unique situation. I wish you could get in a DeLorean, go back to the beginning of free agency

and be more aggressive in terms of trading for some weapons, upgrading the offensive line in Tennessee. They didn't, to my satisfaction, those needs weren't met. Now I know Wondale Robinson's a nice old, nice player. Mine either. You don't have to be on an island on that way. Knowing where they were in this draft

and knowing who was there, I would love if they would have built this thing up and said, okay, we're going to apologies to the defense. We're going to suck over there for another year, but we're going to use our resources. we're going to build up this offensive line, get some more weapons for Ward, who you took number one overall. Now we're going to take love in there. And guess what?

Now we're an exciting offense. We're a watchable product. We're going into a new stadium next year, not this year, but the following year. I've got Loves photo right next up to Cam Ward on the side of the stadium. We've got some juice and energy in Nashville. Like, I'm all for that. Now, I wish they would have set the table, which they didn't. So I'm going to break my own rule here and say, okay, the first year might not look great with Jeremiah 11, Tennessee.

see but man okay i'm giving you a year this next office is and you got to fix it man you got to fix the offensive line you got to get some more help but then i'll get i'll get that those four years of that rookie deal not the full five but that's why i've been okay with him going for you could you could make an argument well i mean you can tell me if i'm wrong on this one you follow it a lot closer more closely than i do you can make an argument um the raiders are on that path, right? Like, yeah, they're trying to, they're fixing that now. They're trying, they're fixing everything around Gentie. Yeah. To where maybe, you know, it's a lot better. Maybe Bowers is more healthy. Maybe you got a better quarterback. You got all,

you got Miller gets back. You sign Linderbom. That's right. That's right. Linderbom is a huge one. Yeah. Right. Linderbom was a great signing for them in particular with what they, what they have. So yeah, I mean, but your point is really well taken because you waste a year of carry of carries on a running back just to build. It's like, you know what that reminds me of? What Texas did with Bejohn Robinson. When he was at Texas, they were bad. And he was running behind a bad offensive line.

And he kind of carried them to the point where they were a lot better. And then he left. Yeah, those timelines didn't marry up properly. No, I wanted to see Bejon on one of the really good Texas teams. That's what I wanted to see, to your point about Love and Tennessee. And then the last pick I want to talk about is the idea of Kansas City drafting this early. Yeah. And everyone would love from the aesthetics of it to say like, hey, go get Patrick Mahomes somebody.

But they did that with Kenneth Walker and they have this enormous need in the secondary. And they're not going to pass on a secondary player, are they? Jeremiah loves there. I think all bets are off. Ooh. I know that. Could he go on that late? Yeah, I think it's very possible.

I could see, I could see. Wait, even with the Walker? Yeah, yeah. Walker was him and Charbonate. That was a tag team, tag team group there in Seattle. So here's my, now you've got my head spinning right now. So here's my thought. This is probably the best information you've given today.

So, well, probably was. The, so obviously you like to have more than one back. And it's like, oh, this is a luxury. Well, I can use him in so many different ways. I've got Mahomes coming off of injury, so we're going to ease him back in. We brought Eric B. Enemy back to be the coordinator. We want to get this run game going.

Now I've got two guys, and they're going to compliment each other very well. We can really, really get the run game going. Plus, both these guys can catch the ball. And Love is like a legit slot receiver if you wanted to put him out there. He can go out there and you can make a case. He might be the best slot,

probably the best slot receiver in this draft to keep the theme alive. So to me, I just think it would be, and then think about the creativity, the screen games, the fun coming back to the Kansas City offense. And like the biggest point of all is just the Mahomes. Like Holmes is coming off that injury. Like let's take the load off of him a little bit.

And you can do that. And I think people forget because he was there and he's so great. But when Beenemy was the offensive coordinator, they ran the ball decent. I know. That's who he is. That's what he is. That's who Eric is.

That's who Eric is. 100%. That's who he is. And that's what allows. The other thing, Joel, is that they, and unfortunately for Spags and Dave Merritt's or secondary coach, you're going to get punished a little bit for how darn good you are. And that we don't need to take, we don't need to, we don't have to. We have another pick at the bottom of the first round. We have been able to find secondary players all throughout the draft.

Like, because we are so good at developing and teaching and growing these young guys. I mean, every year we're seeing these guys depart and free. It's why they're comfortable, you know, letting a great player like McDuffie go. in that trade because they've been able to just keep reloading. They've done it with Sneed. They've done it with a bunch of these guys over the years. They just keep replenishing the secondary. They lost the safety this year as well and Cook, Brian Cook.

So they just roll them through. On our way out with these corners and secondary players, because it applies to exactly what we were just talking about. There's a lot of teams at need. Kansas City needs secondary help. Dallas needs secondary help, among others. There's not a better, and I can't wait for draft 9. and in particular probably night two, Friday night.

When we're in the second and third round. This is going to be a night two. This is crazy. I didn't realize this was such a crutch of mine. But now I'm going to think about it every, probably I'm going to think about this every single time I say. You probably should. Night two, we will have this discussion.

Now you're in your head. Four corners. Production potential. because you've got these undersized corners that were so good. DeAngelo Pons top of that list. Super undersized, incredible football player. And then you've got guys that have injury issues, played at three schools, not that it's bad, you know, and they're six, three and 200 pounds.

And, you know, 195. And you're like, well, that's what it looks like. And we're going to have that discussion on night two. Yeah, that's going to be night two. we're going to see a run on those dudes. And it'll be fascinating to see. Again, they almost belong in different categories, you know, with some of these players. Like the fact that you're, you know, you're sitting there and you're comparing Taccario

Davis to, you know, DeAngelo Pons. Like it's just like they look like different human beings and how they play and how they look and all those different things. But I mean, Ticario Davis is almost a head taller than the Angelo Pons. He's just under 6'4, I believe. So, yeah, he's, yeah, it's a freaky dude. But the thing on Ponds is I ended up, I ended up putting him in my top 50. This is my last update will come up.

So it's the top one. I think I ended up putting it at like 45. But every year in this process, there's like little traditions. But I've tried to do this every year where I look at the list and I go, who am I going to be sick to my stomach when they end up going in the top 50? And for some reason or another, I just, I believe in the player. but I had him at like 52 or 53, you know what I mean? Like he was right there and it's like,

what's going to make me sick to my stomach? I did it with Jalen Hertz. That was the last one I put in my top 50. I remember that. Because I was like, he's just so competitive and tough. He'll figure it out somehow. Like I just won't live with myself if I don't put him in there.

So I've done it with guys every year. So he was my guy this year where I was like, I'll just hate myself of this guy. This guy ends up being the 35th pick and I have him as my 50 first player. I'm going to be like, you moron. Like you love everything about the kid except he's just not tall. By the way, the entire defensive philosophy and scheme was built around DeAngelo Pons. Wow.

My conversations with Brian Haynes were phenomenal. Brian Haynes is one of my favorite guys to talk football with because he just lays it on the line right before games. Big Ten championships, it doesn't matter. He's like, this is what we're going to do, Joel. If it doesn't work, I'll tip my cap. It's the best. DJ, you know those conversations. I love that.

You know it's authentic and it's real. And I don't want to give too much away. And since Pons is gone, I think it's fine. But everything rolled away from Ponds because everything was his own pressure, a simulated pressure away from Pons because he could take up half the field. Yeah. And he would say, he would tell me he was like, the kid will just not get beat.

And so I just give him half the field and we'll see. And I was like, what if it's Jeremiah Smith? And he's like, well, he'll play hard. Yeah. We'll take our shot. We'll take a shot. And he does. he does. And so it doesn't, and so he plays that off what I would call free access, cover three

corner into the boundary as well as anybody. He's tough. He's, yes, he's 5-9, but he's tough at the catch point. And the entire defense for Indiana won a national championship was undefeated, one of the best defenses in college football. The entire scheme was built around the fact that DeAngelo Pons was on the field. I love that. Yeah, I absolutely love it. I had toyed around some different comps, and then I was talking to a buddy with a team literally this last week as I was filling this whole thing out and kind of bounced some of the names off of him, you know, that I had been around like Lederius Webb. We talked about Avanti Maddox, you know, just some other undersized players that we love.

And he was like, DJ, he's like, we pulled it up, you know, you can pull it up in their system going all the way back. It's like, it is a carbon copy of Aaron Glenn. Carbon copy. So I said, well, that's my comp. Aaron Glenn. And then I was like, if the draft gods could just please the Jets have two second round picks, please let them select him. That's another one we can clip off.

If we get that one, then we can have some fun with that one. I mean, Kiara's gotten five shoutouts today. Catherine's gotten shout out. Steve's gotten shoutouts. We can't get to everybody. We've got a staff of over a hundred.

I know. It's really is. Here on the show. Yeah. I mean, for those of that are watching or listening, and I know you love Joel and hold a very high regard. It takes maybe two villages.

I don't know if it takes a village is enough. Oh, buddy. Can't wait to be with you in Pittsburgh. I can't tell you how much I appreciate. I took up too much of your time and you're always super gracious. You are my absolute North Star

in this industry, the way that you work, your information, and the way that you treat people, the character that you have, your integrity, all of it. Super proud to call you a friend and I appreciate you being on the show. You're probably one of my favorite guys too, man. I knew it. I knew it.

There he goes. We'll see you in Pittsburgh, DJ. Have a good night, dude. Love you, buddy. All right, can't wait to be with DJ in Pittsburgh. That's going to be awesome. Next week, we're going to have more content for you. We're going to have a couple of episodes.

I'll do my last mock draft. That'll be 3.0 right before the draft. And then after the draft, we're going to get into some more college football content and wrap up spring ball. I'm going to have my post-spring top 25. That's coming in the next few weeks. So, again, we'll have a couple of episodes next week, Monday, and then right before the draft.

and that 3.0 mock draft will drop next week right here on the Joel Clash Show. If you're not a subscriber, you need to be a subscriber. Go ahead and hit that button down below. You can subscribe to the show, hit the notification button as well. You'll know when all of our content drops. And then if you haven't followed us on social media, we are wherever you are on social media. If you like TikTok, we're on TikTok. So go and follow us on social media at Joel Clashow.

You can get all of our content in short form out there. going to be a nice little sprint here to the 2026 NFL draft. It should be a good one. Again, thanks to Daniel Jeremiah. Go follow him at Moot the Sticks. Check everything out that he does. He's awesome. Until then, until next week, I'm Joel Clap.

Have a great week.