The Joel Klatt Show: A College Football Podcast - John Mateer Injury Impact, Ranking Top Teams into Tiers & Matt Leinart on USC’s ceiling

Episode Date: September 24, 2025

FOX Sports’ lead College Football analyst Joel Klatt reacts to the news that Heisman favorite Oklahoma QB John Mateer will be out indefinitely with a hand injury and discusses whether the Sooners can hold onto their season while he’s out. He also responds to the news that Mike Gundy has been let go as Oklahoma State Head Coach. Klatt then ranks teams across the Big Ten, SEC, Big 12, ACC and Group of 6 into tiers based on who he views as the real favorites and contenders in each conference. He then welcomes Heisman Trophy winner and Big Noon Kickoff Analyst Matt Leinart to the show to discuss USC’s perfect start to the season as well how high the Trojans’ ceiling is this season before also getting into the Heisman race now that Mateer will be out for a length of time. 0:00-2:06 Intro2:07-6:09 John Mateer undergoes surgery, out indefinitely6:10-7:45 Oklahoma State fires Mike Gundy7:46-19:16 Big Ten Tiers19:17-26:13 SEC Tiers26:14-30:31 Big 12 Tiers30:32-33:48 ACC Tiers33:49-36:36 Group of 6 Tiers36:47-56:29 Matt Leinart interview Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I think they're a playoff team. My point is, is like Lincoln finally has a quarterback, kind of like what he had and probably like a baker and some of those guys in Oklahoma. Lincoln Riley's superpower at Oklahoma was that they were such a great running team. The AP poll is such a joke. Washington got zero votes in the AP poll. Are you guys willfully ignorant or just ignorant? What's up everybody?

Welcome into the Joel Clatt Show. I'm Joel Clad. This show is brought to you by Graduate by Hilton. We thank them for their support as always. All of you who have gotten down into the comments to the YouTube channel, I appreciate it. I was down there on Monday, kind of chopping it up a little bit, leaving some comments, answering some questions. So if you have not subscribed to the channel, please go do so on YouTube. You can hit the notification button as well, and you'll know when all of our content drops. You can also follow us on social media. As you know, wherever you like to social media. We are there at Joel Clatt Show, and all of our content lives during the week,

the whole year and so on and so forth. Lots to get into today. We're going to talk with Matt Leinert. So Matt's going to join the program a little bit later. And Mattie Ice is going to be talking about this USC team. We've got USC this Saturday. Big Noon Saturday is going to be live from Champaign, Illinois, as USC goes on the road to face Illinois in a ranked matchup in the Big Ten.

So I'm looking forward to that. We'll break some of that down with Matt later in the program. Also get his thoughts on some of this breaking news that has happened. I'm also going to start to look at each conference today and tier each conference, one, two, and three. Who's at the top tier, the second tier, and the third tier in each of these conference as it relates to the top end of each of these conferences. And these are going to differ a little bit than with my rankings.

But first, we've got to get to some of the breaking news in college football. And both of these pieces of news not great. Listen, midweek news is never great in college football. And this is no different. Mattier out indefinitely, probably for about a month after hand surgery, reportedly heard it in that Auburn game. They think it's going to be about a month after this hand surgery. And I'm totally bummed for this guy because he was playing as well as anybody in the country. I think all of us know that.

That's facts. Those are facts. They don't beat Michigan without John Mateer. They don't beat Auburn without John Mateer. In so many ways, he was Oklahoma. Now, I don't want to take anything away from their defense. I think their defense has been sensational. Up front, they've been terrific.

Ten sacks against Auburn and Jackson and Arnold last weekend. They were terrific on the defensive side. And now that defense is going to have to be even better. They're going to have to be even more dominant and control the entire pace and tempo of the game. Because without material, they're going to have an inability to do that with their offense. You know, their offense, as good as it's been to this point, I think now there's some real concern. Michael Hawkins, the backup, is a guy that started four games last season. He's going to be taking over now, just like he took over for Jackson and Arnold a year ago.

And there's some dual threat aspects about Hawkins, but he's not Mateer. You know, Matur in a lot of ways, and I've said this, put a cape on his back against Michigan. Again, they don't beat the Wolverines. As well as their defense played, it was Matier. that made the plays necessary. I talked Monday in Monday show, and if you haven't listened to Monday's show, I dropped my latest top 10,

talked about all the big games from last weekend. So please go check it out. You can find it on the YouTube channel. I was optimistic about OU moving forward, but without material, at least for the next few weeks, however long it's going to be, three, four, maybe five weeks, that optimism kind of goes out the window.

And I know that that's unfortunate, but it's the truth. The problem is that the defense is going to be under so much pressure to completely own the game. Ask Iowa how that goes. It's just difficult. My question for their offense, do they have the answers without material on the field?

Running the football has been such a challenge for OU. Numbers bear that out. The running backs last week against Auburn, 12 carries 13 yards, 13 yards. In fact, if you look at this entire season and you parse out the quarterback run from what they have done with their running backs, their running backs are 130th in the country as a group in yards per carry. They can't do anything without Mateer in the run game. I don't know what they're going to do without him on the field.

They certainly are not going to beat Texas. That's in a couple of weeks. Thankfully for them, they're going to have Kent State. then they've got Texas, then they have to go to South Carolina, and then the gauntlet starts, the back end of their schedule is brutal. They're going to go Ole Miss, Tennessee. They have Bama on there, LSU on there. They're going to have Missouri on there.

Like it's, it gets pretty daunting for Oklahoma, which in some cases, the timing of this is working out, even though he's got a Miss Red River. Maybe he can get back before South Carolina optimistically and, well, not South Carolina. before maybe the Old Miss game, October 25th, optimistically. And then for them, I think that they definitely need them before November 1st when they have to go to Neeland and face Tennessee. They're not beating Texas without Mateer. They're certainly not beaten Old Miss without Mateer.

And they're certainly not beating Tennessee without Mateer. So unless he gets back on the field, this is the season for OU. This is the season. And that's too bad because he was leading in the Heisman race. He was doing so many things well and providing a lot of optimism, at least for me, around OU. Also in Oklahoma, a firing Mike Gundy gets fired from Oklahoma State. Just real quickly, I think we kind of understood that this was a possibility and probably going to happen. Personal note, like this is a sad one for me. He's one of the longest tenured coaches. So now there's just

not a lot of guys that had their jobs when I started doing this job. And he also in his first year became a head coach as a young man before he was 40 and famously. I got to play against him. My senior year was his first year as the coach for Oklahoma State. And so we've always had that and we've always gotten to chat about that. He has always been incredibly thoughtful with me personally. His wife has been incredibly thoughtful to our family. When my wife started having boys, just like the Gundy's had boys,

she actually wrote my wife a letter and just said, hey, I know being married to someone in football is not the easiest thing in the fall, but just a word of encouragement, you know, raise those boys right. And I'll always remember that. And I hope that coach sees this because I'm really grateful for him and his family. I think that this is a bummer, man. This guy is the all-time winning his coach at Oklahoma State by over 100 games, and he's let go before October.

I just don't love it. I don't love it. I know that there was, you know, things going on behind the scenes that there was some disagreements and so on and so forth. But ugly side of college football, I don't love it. Coach, just want you to know, man, I respect you and we'll always think highly of you. All right, let's get into these tiers. So again, every single conference, and then I'm also going to do the group of six as a whole. So here's what I want to do as I want to look at each conference in three distinct tiers. And these are only the elite teams, the upper-level teams of each of these conferences.

What I didn't want to do is go through this exercise and give you guys just like, hey, here's the 12 teams in each conference. No, no, no, no. Let's be selective. Let's actually look at tiers like, who's the favorite or favorites? Okay, some of these conferences, maybe it's just a favorite. Maybe it's just one team in tier one. Like, it's really got to be elite to be tier one.

Tier two, contenders, teams that we can absolutely see contending for the conference title. and then tier three would be right in the mix. Some things break their way. Maybe they wind up in the conference championship game. Who knows? Who knows? Okay. So we're going to try to be selective in this.

I didn't want to put everybody in these tiers. I just didn't. I think these conferences are too big. So let's take the top end of these conferences, which we know now. Let's be honest. Let's look at these conferences after a month of play, almost a month of play,

and really look at them with some scrutiny. Okay. So tier one is the favorite or favorites. Tier two, the contenders, tier three in the mix. Just a quick note, these are not going to align perfectly with my top 10 because my top 10 is about more where you've kind of earned your spot, whereas these tiers are going to be what I genuinely believe about your chances within your conference and some of it has to do with the schedule that they've got in front of them.

Okay, so here we go. Let's start in the big 10. Big 10. Tier 1. I've got two teams in Tier 1. right, only two. Even though there's three elite teams, as the rankings have them, I think that the tier one favorites are Ohio State and Oregon. Ohio State and Oregon. I think it's scary that Ohio State lost 14 draft picks and they're still as good as they are right now with a brand

new quarterback who's a redshirt freshman. Smith has still been the best player in college football. Downs has been great. The defense is maybe even better than a year ago, which is wild, which is wild. And as San gets better and they let him kind of out of his shell and they bring him along, this offense looks scary. They've got depth at running back. They're running the football well. They're throwing the football well. It's scary to me how good Ohio State looks after losing 14 draft picks.

Oregon, meanwhile, built the right way. There's one concern I have for Oregon is that they didn't stop the run very well against Northwestern. They're going to have to do that this week against Penn State for sure if they want to go into Penn State and win in a whiteout. But their quarterback, Dante Moore, again, especially with the mature injury, this guy is going to be right there in the Heisman trophy race. He's that talented. He's that talented.

He prepares well. I know how he's coached. He's coached very well. He understands not just the what they're doing or how they're doing it, but the why they're doing it. And that's really the secret sauce for quarterbacks to take them to the next level, that understanding of why he has it. I like Oregon a lot. Tier 2, the contenders in the Big 10.

I like two of them, Penn State and Indiana. Now, some of you might say to yourself, like, why in the world isn't Penn State on Tier 1? I totally understand that sentiment. However, Oregon's the defending Big Ten champion. Ohio State is the defending national champion. And Penn State still hasn't proven in recent vintage to be able to win a matchup game like they're going to have this week against Oregon. So as we go into that game, I'm just leaving room for growth. Penn State has been inconsistent this year, even though they have been dominant at times.

They have sleptwalk through other areas of their games against inferior opponents. Drew Aller has not looked like a quarterback like I thought he would look in terms of just owning the game from the pocket. So that's why they're on tier two. Does that mean that they're bad? Absolutely not. Again, these are the contenders. They win this weekend. Boom.

They just flip-flop with Oregon in the tier one. But I wanted to be selective. and if we are being honest, even though Penn State was in the national semi-final a year ago, they didn't win a game that we would call a match-up game. They were significantly better from a roster standpoint than Boise State and SMU, who they beat in the playoff. Once they got up against Notre Dame, they lost. Tight game.

They lost to Ohio State last year. Tight game. They lost to Oregon last year. Tight game. They need to find a way to win one of those games before they get off of this tier. and then Indiana is going to be on this tier. So Indiana at 4-0, they have elevated themselves over the last couple of years. They were 15 and 2, very similar to Penn State, by the way.

They're beating everybody that they should, and then they have struggled in the match-up games. And maybe you would say an Illinois is a match-up game as Illinois was, and I hope you understand what I mean by match-up games, when talent is equated across sidelines. A lot of teams can win when they have more talent than the other team. but when talent becomes equated, can you go out there and win the football game? That's the question.

Indiana, they're 15 and 2. There are two losses at Ohio State at Notre Dame. So they have to do what Penn State has to do, level up and win one of those matchup games. They have road games against Penn State and Oregon this year. We're going to see if they're for real. Right now they're on Tier 2. Let's get to Tier 3.

I think this is where it gets interesting for me in the Big 10. in the mix. I think that I'm going to start with Michigan. Michigan's certainly in the mix. I think Washington is in the mix. And I think USC is in the mix. Those are my three teams. Let me start with Michigan.

That was a very impressive performance against Nebraska. They totally owned them at the line of scrimmage, ran it for nearly 300 yards. They got seven sacks on defense. And the score, I didn't think, was quite indicative of the game. game that was played. The score was much closer than what the game that was played. Underwood is going to be a star. He's going to continue to develop. And if they've already got that mindset of being physical, let's just put it this way.

They are so much further ahead at this point this year than they were at this point last year. And I know that can seem obvious, but certainly trending in the right direction. And I think Michigan is certainly in the mix. Do you want to play that run game with Justice Haynes? Probably not. Now let's get to Washington. Hey, can Washington get a little respect? The AP poll is such a joke. Washington got zero votes in the AP poll.

Are you guys willfully ignorant or just ignorant? Because that's a joke. you mean to tell me that there are teams down there getting three and four votes that would get absolutely slaughtered by Washington. Please tell me you just forget that they're in college football. Please tell me that this is a sign that you don't stay up late for games on the West Coast. Please tell me that you just haven't seen the Huskies play because they're all the way tucked up there in the great Northwest. because they've got the number two scoring offense in college football at 58 points per game. They got a hell of a quarterback, a coach that has built a winner before.

Coleman is terrific. He's running the football well. This is a legitimate team with the second longest win streak at home in all of college football. And they don't have one vote in the AP poll. What a joke. What a joke. The AP poll continues to show and reveal why it is so bad. Why do we even talk about it? I don't know. I shouldn't even give it the oxygen that I'm giving it right now.

It's just frustration. Tell me you don't watch the sport without telling me you don't watch the sport. How do I know? No one put Washington on their top 25. That's a joke. That's an absolute joke. If you've listened to this show, you will have known that it's been since the off season and since the summertime that I've been talking about Washington as a dark horse. In fact, I listed teams like Missouri and the SEC as a dark horse for the college football playoff. I listed teams like Washington in the Big Ten as a dark horse for the college football playoff. I listed a team like Georgia Tech as a dark horse for the college football playoff out of the

ACC. We have been shining lights on these teams. It's not our fault that the AP voters can't do their job. Washington is very good, folks, very good. That game against Ohio State this weekend up. in Seattle started out as like an 11-point line. It's been bet all the way down. Why?

Because the public is smarter than the AP. Period. Facts. I don't know how else to put it. The public is betting this down because they know Washington has a very good football team. I'm a big believer that Washington maybe not wins the game. But listen, DeMond Williams, top five in the country and total yards per game at 33. Jonah Coleman, top 10 in the country and rushing at 116.

per game. Denzel Boston is coming off 100-yard two-touchdown game against Wazoo. They've got a huge opportunity this week. And I know I spent a lot of time on them, but that's apparently because nobody knows about Washington. This is a very good football team, and I remain shocked that no one will pay attention. Another underrated team, and we'll talk to Matt later in the program, Matt Leinert, former USC quarterback, is his former team USC. This looks like a team that has some real staying power. They are much different than they have been in the last couple of years because they're doing some of the fundamental things that I feel you need to do to be a quality team and they're doing them well, namely running the football, stop in the run. So they're much better at the line of

scrimmage than they have been in the last couple of years. And it looks like a Lincoln-Riley offense that we saw back at Oklahoma, where they were both excelling in the run game and in the past game. They're first in yards per play in all of college football, just over nine. They're second in yards per pass, third and yards per rush. So what do you defend? Wayman Jordan, and I know Matt will bring him up, but Wayne and Jordan is a legitimate Heisman contender in my estimation. He has been terrific.

Junior college transfer that has come in and really transformed their run game. Eli Sanders, number one, running back, you're watching on YouTube right now. He's got electricity when he carries the football. Jaden Maiava has played outstanding ball. He's got that combination that they had at OU of a guy. that will play within the system and pick you apart from the pocket as a passer, but also can hurt you with his legs. And it's that combination that has made them very dangerous. And by the way, their defensive line is much bigger and much better against the run than what we have seen in previous seasons.

They're much bigger and they're now a factor tied for most sacks in the country. USC is with 16. So watch out. Watch out for USC. And those are my tiers. So again, I wanted to be selective. And I wanted to take teams that I really believed in that could make a push, had the opportunity. to make a push towards a potential conference crown or a CFP birth.

Those are my tears in the big 10. Took a long time doing that. Probably need to speed up a little bit here. SEC. The favorite in the SEC. This was hard because I'm looking at this. I just said I was going to go fast and then I'm taking a nice little pause here. I think that there's only one.

I think there's only one. and it was proven out when Georgia came back 21-7, down against Tennessee and came back and won that game on the road. The favorite in the SEC is Georgia. Why? Someone's got to be Georgia. And it's been proven to be very difficult. Now, Alabama has had their number.

Kirby Smart is 1 in 6 against Alabama, and I understand that. Now, granted, I believe this is right. I don't think any one of those games has actually taken place in Athens. So they're one in six in a bunch of neutrals and in Tuscaloosa. Now they get them in Athens and could be a long night for Alabama who struggles on the road dating back to last year. We have seen them struggle on the road.

Vandy last year, Oklahoma last year, Florida State this year. Not a great team on the road. Now they've got to go on the road and face Georgia. That's my tier one team in the SEC. Really impressed with Gunner Stockton, played well in a big-time environment in Neeland Stadium. Okay, now tier two, the contenders. And again, this is not going to follow the rankings.

So this is who I think has separated themselves out as a clear tier two in the SEC. I'm going to start with Alabama. Then you go Tennessee, LSU, and Texas A&M. That's the tier two contenders in the SEC. Alabama, I still believe in this team. I have really liked the response that they've given post week ones lost to Florida State. Now, they don't have a ton of wiggle room in particular with their schedule. but Ty Simpson looks like a real bona fide star at quarterback.

And when you give him Ryan Williams on the outside, when you give him some of those other threats that they have on the outside, like he's really good. Some of the passes that he threw against Wisconsin were just perfect, right? Perfect. They get Jam Miller back at running back. They get Tim Keenan back at defensive tackle. So they're getting healthier.

And I think that's a dangerous team. Tennessee, meanwhile, the fact that they took Georgia right down to the wire, I'll be it at home, puts them in tier two. Joey Aguilar looks great, and he's a great fit for that system. The wide receivers are really good. They've got speed. They've got length. They can take you down the field.

And it's, I mean, they can bury you, really, in a lot of ways. And they did that to Georgia for the most part. They just weren't able to close out the game. LSU I'm still going to keep in tier two. And I, gosh, this was, I didn't love the fact that I kept them in tier two. because let's face it, like, it hasn't looked great, and their resume continues to get holes punched in it as Clemson continues to lose. So, like, Miami looked better against Florida than LSU looked against Florida.

Syracuse just did the same thing to Clemson that LSU did to Clemson. So all of a sudden, what we thought about after week one and that win over Clemson and what we thought was this top five matchup and, oh, man, this was so great. Doesn't look like that anymore. What I have loved about LSU is their turnaround on the defensive side. My concern now is all the sudden the offensive side. But don't ask Brian Kelly about it.

Don't you dare. And certainly don't do it with the first question. You're spoiled. You know what? You're spoiled. That's what you're thinking about. Spoiled. My next tier two team is Texas A&M.

Offense looked incredible against Notre Dame on the road. Marcel Reed, Craver on the outside, Concepcion on the outside. got real speed and they're going to be a real threat in this conference. My concern would be on the defensive side because they obviously gave up a ton of points in that game. But that's my tier two contenders and now we move on to the tier three in the mix. In the mix in the SEC, I think it's Texas, OU, and Missouri. And you might be thinking yourself like, man, this is a huge fall for Texas. Well, has Texas really inspired any confidence so far this year? They lose on the road to

Ohio State. Then they play really sloppy and lazy football for a couple of weeks before finally coming back to kind of the land of the living against Sam Houston. Now, if they can catapult themselves or find the level of consistency that they played with against Sam Houston and take it forward, they'll easily raise up this tier. No doubt about it. If you're just looking at their defense, their defense is one of the best in the country, and will remain so. They got a huge bump, by the way. The fact that John Mateer is going to be out, I just talked about that. But now all of a sudden, Red River just doesn't look quite. as daunting.

Oklahoma, I just talked about them. To be honest, if I would have, I probably would have put them in the second tier, save for the Mateer injury. So they're coming down in the mix. I talked about the OU at the beginning of this show. I'm nervous for OU. They're not going to beat a quality opponent without John Mateer. They do not have enough answers on the offensive side.

to get into a game where they are unable to run the football with their running backs. They needed Mateer to put a cape on, and now he's gone. So, like, what do we do when Batman won't come around? I don't know. I don't know. Missouri, watch out from Missouri. Sneaky. Talked about them as a sleeper team, like I said earlier this summer.

They beat South Carolina last week. Ahmad Hardy is run the football as well as anybody in the country, along with Wayman Jordan at USC. the country and rushing. The defense has been very good. The defensive line has been very stout, getting pressure on the quarterback. They've got Zion Young up there, like really good players. So don't sleep on Missouri. Now, you might be thinking to yourself, like, there's a lot of ranked teams in this conference that aren't on the tiers. Joel, what's going on? Well, Ole Miss didn't make the cut because I don't believe that Ole Miss is as good as what their ranking is.

We have seen this now twice already this year where the AP poll blindly rank someone in a particular spot in the preseason based on nothing and then won't adjust once they see games. I think Illinois was overrated at nine. I think South Carolina was overrated at 11 when both of those teams lost. And now I feel the same about Ole Miss. This is not the 13th best team in the country. Now, I could be wrong. I was wrong about a lot this year so far. That's the way I feel. We'll see how they deal with playing LSU, but that's kind of how I feel about Ole Miss. Let's move on to the Big 12. The Big 12. All right, Tier 1 in the Big 12 after last weekend is one team, and that is Texas Tech. Talked a lot about them on the Monday show. Please go back and

check out that Monday show because I was really impressed with Texas Tech. I actually texted Coach McGuire. And so the biggest compliment I can pay a coach is this. I've always believed that teams take on the character of their coach. So when I see a team that loves each other, plays physical, and plays really hard, That tells me that they have a great coach. That's what I texted Joey McGuire. And that's what I believe.

And this is the best team in the Big 12. Their defensive line is really good. What they invested in and the transfer portal has paid dividends. They've got depth of quarterback with Will Hammond coming in and putting just absolute dimes out there late. Their offensive line is solid. They got playmakers everywhere. They can, and I talked about the depth of their offensive scheme on Monday. Please go check that out.

really impressed with them and they're, I think, the class of the Big 12 at this point. Tier 2 then becomes the contenders. I think it's three teams, Iowa State, Utah, and TCU. Watch out for TCU. Iowa State is a tough team to beat. Beckt always gives them a shot because he's such an experienced quarterback and a gamer in the biggest moments in the fourth quarter. Utah, I know that they lost at home, but listen, tech is very good, very good.

And that game was closer than the score indicated with a couple of scores late. Utah is still going to be a very difficult team to beat because they will be able to run the football on a defensive line that is not as dominant as tech. Their defense is very salty. I know they got worn out late in that game playing so much man coverage, but that's still going to be a tough team to beat. Not everyone is going to be able to do to Utah what tech was able to do to Utah last week. And then TCU, don't sleep on the horned frogs. Hoover leads the country in passing. Nice win against SMU last week.

And listen, we saw them in week one, throttle North Carolina in a game where everyone was more interested in Bill Belichick and North Carolina. But now TCU just continues to get better win football games and put themselves in a position to play for a conference championship. Again, watch out for Josh Hoover. This guy is excellent. They can throw the ball all over the lot. And I'm really a big fan of TCU at this point. So they are contenders right now. And then there's the in the mix teams here in the Big 12, and there's four of them.

I think Arizona State, Kansas, BYU, and Arizona are in the mix. And those are my tiers in the Big 12. Arizona State, they had a slip up, obviously, in that loss in Starkville to Mississippi State, but they got a big win last week on a last second field goal at Baylor. That's going to help them out. They still have Sam Levitt. They still have Jordan Tyson. So, like, Arizona State is still going to be a difficult team to deal with in that conference.

Kansas. Their only losses to Missouri, and Missouri is playing really well right now and has a dark horse chance to be in the CFP out of the SEC. Kansas is a dangerous team. They thumped West Virginia. You look, watch out for them, veteran quarterback and Jalen Daniels. BYU, I know they haven't really played anyone yet, but they are 3-0. They play really good defense, one of the best defense in the country statistically, and they're running the ball well with L.J. Martin, over 100 yards per game. They're at Colorado on Saturday. That's going to be an interesting test because on paper, they seem to have a better team than Colorado. They just beat them in a bowl game last year, and we'll see how they handle them. But for right now, they're going to be

in the mix right here on Tier 3 in the Big 12. And then Arizona, nobody paying attention to Arizona. They had a tough first season under Brent Brennan, who's a good football. coach playing much better this year. Kind of what we thought they would be last year, now is what they're playing like. The defense is much better. Noel Fafita is still there. He's a solid player.

So, like, watch out for Arizona as a tier three team in the big 12. ACC. Two favorites in the ACC. We've got Miami and Florida State. Those two teams have clearly separated themselves out. Miami, clearly one of the better teams in the country. And I think Florida State is as well, as Bama continues to play with. well, isn't it safe to say that Florida State is an elite team? Yes, there's no doubt. So those two

teams are at the top end of this conference. Clearly, the two favorites in the ACC, the old powers, Miami and Florida State. I can't wait to watch them play. What is that next week? I think it's next week. Miami has answers. Okay, they can beat you with their defense. They can beat you with their quarterback. They can beat you with their offensive line. That's what you have to have. It seems like Florida State also has those answers. They were dominant against. to Alabama week one. Their defense played well, their quarterback played well, and their scope position players played well as well as their offensive line. They have an identity with this Gus Malzon offense, and the defense has been getting

after it. So both of these teams, I think, are clearly tier one teams in the ACC. They play each other in two weeks in Tallahassee, two weeks. Tier two, I think it's one team. This is not a deep league, not a deep league at all. In fact, it's a pretty wide margin until we get to this tier two contender. Georgia Tech. Tech was my sleeper in the ACC that I mentioned this summer. Their schedule lines up for them. It's just a weird league because they still have those eight conference games. So it's like all of these teams miss all of the other contenders. It's maddening. The ADs, by the way, news came out this week. They are going to look at and then we'll adopt a nine

conference game schedule. I think that's great. And it will line up with the rest of college football. But the schedule for Georgia Tech is optimistic. I think I would say. No ranked opponents until the Georgia game in the final week of the regular season. And I just love Haynes King. There's a good chance that this team could go through the ACC as an undefeated, which means the loser of the Miami Florida State game, good chance that they don't get into the ACC championship game,

but probably do get into the playoff. So the ACC trending right now towards two, maybe three teams in the college football playoff depending on Georgia Tech's record at the end of the year and how they look against Georgia. Tier three in the mixed teams in the ACC, I think I kind of, this is where I had to open it up a little bit. I wasn't quite as selective as I was in the other conferences. Louisville and Syracuse. Louisville hasn't really been tested yet. They are at Pitt this weekend. Jeff Brom gets the benefit of the doubt from me. He gets the best out of his quarterbacks and his team, generally speaking, and Miller Moss is there. Probably, you know, the fitting. We got to be a lot of. We got to

got Matt coming up, Miller Moss. That's a good. Miller played at USC. Running back, Isaac Brown, Syracuse just knocked off Clemson on the road, but also they lost Steve Angelly. Unfortunately, he got that Achilles injury. That's a super bummer for Syracuse. So they're going to go with Ricky Collins. He's the transfer from LSU.

The loss to Tennessee doesn't look quite as bad as Tennessee continues to play well. Their second half of their schedule does get tougher, though. So Syracuse is going to have to play at Georgia Tech, at Miami, at Notre name. So this might be short-lived for Syracuse, although that was a nice win last week. All right, group of six. All right, here we go. What does the group of six look like as a whole? Where are we trending right now? The American looks like the strongest conference right now. So a lot of these teams are going to be out of the American. And the tier one favorite, I think, is South Florida out of the American. They've got the best singular win in the group of six. And they

seem to be the best team. Also, remember, they destroyed Boise Week one. So it's not just that they went to Florida and beat Florida, which is only a one-win team right now. They also destroyed Boise. So, like, let's give them their due. No shame in losing to Miami, who we think is a top five team right now in college football. So they're tier one. Then you move to tier two. Again, let's try to be selective here.

I think Memphis out of the American, Old Dominion out of the Sunbelt, and Navy out of the American are the tier two group of six teams. Those are the teams I'm looking at. Memphis came back from 18 points down to beat Arkansas. They were behind 290 yards on the ground last week, so Memphis can run the ball. Old Dominion only lost to Indiana by 13. That looks a lot better. And they beat Virginia Tech by 19. So like Old Dominion can play.

One of the best running attacks in the country. They've got a dual threat quarterback, Colton Joseph. He's number one in the country averaging over seven half yards per carry. So watch out for Old Dominion. Navy, we know how tough they are. They have won all three games by at least two touchdowns. They've got Horvath back for his second year as a starter. They're going to be tough to beat.

They're undefeated. They're a contender. Tier three in the group of six. I'll go North Texas out of the American, UNLV out of the Mountain West, and Tulane out of the American. So look at all the Americans. We've got South Florida American, Memphis American, Navy American, North Texas American, Tulane American.

The American conference is clearly the best. best group of six conference. I think the winner of that conference is going to get the group of six auto bid into the college football playoff. Here's the tier three. North Texas, they beat Washington State 5910, followed that up with a road win at Army last week. That's an Army team that also beat Kansas State. So watch out for North Texas. UNLV. They've been playing with fire this season, but getting the wins. Three wins by seven points or less. They did beat UCLA. Is that great? I don't know, but they did it. And then Tulane. They got blown out by Ole Miss last week,

but they have two wins over Power 4 teams right now, Northwestern, and Duke. Jake Ratzloff is their quarterback, Brandon Sullivan, sharing time at QB. So watch out for Tulane. Try to be selective in this one. I think South Florida is very good. Old Dominion is very good. Navy's going to be tough to beat. This is going to be a really fun end of the season,

last two months as we take a look at who's going to be the best group of six team to go to the playoff. Okay. Now turned into a long show because we still got to get to Matt Liner. Without further ado, my friend, my cohort here on Fox Sports and Big Noon Saturday and Big Noon kickoff. Let's go out and chat with Matt Liner. Here he is. Mattie Liner. What's up, brother? How you doing? God, whenever I get the call to come on this show, it just gets my juices flowing. Stop. You guys always.

But you want to know why because it's USC week. You know, we get USC and then, you know, it's fine, though. It's, listen, man, I'll do whatever for you, buddy. I love you, man. I love you as well. And, yeah, I wanted to bring you on. I thought this was a perfect week. One, you got to run out of the tunnel last week

because they had that super late game, 8 p.m. local here on the West Coast. So after we got done on Big Noon Saturday, you could get back and run out of the tunnel for USC as they took on Michigan State. But then we also have them this week against Illinois. There it is. We're showing it right now.

How about that, dude? You've got to take me back. How was it? leading the Trojans out onto the field. So this was an incredible night. And, you know, this kind of got brought up. I talked to the guys earlier in the summer and they're like, hey, we'd love to run you out the tunnel.

And you know how it is. Like, it's just, it's almost impossible to go to a USC game because we're on the road every week unless timing works out. This happened to be the time. So I reached out and said, hey, I'm here. They're like, oh, my God, yes, let's do it. So we get there. And the coolest part, Joel, for me was one, I was able to take Cole, my oldest, who's kind

he's been able to do this before, but see that. But then I was able to take Kaysen, my almost six-year-old. Yeah. And my other one had wanted nothing to do with it. He was exhausted from Utah. They went to Utah, too. Like, it was a whole family trip. And he was like, Daddy, I'm staying home.

I don't want to do it. But Kaysen is like, he's attached to my hip. He wants to do everything Daddy wants to do. So in that regard, it was just so awesome to kind of be on the field and see everybody. And just the interaction is great. And then, you know, the fans, like, was packed. It was just, it was just, it was awesome, man. There is, there is a little bit of a buzz about USC this year. I was going to say, there seems to be some juice right now. There is juice. And that,

I mean, gosh, we've seen the Colise in the last handful of years. And I mean, I hate to say the word embarrassing, but sometimes it is. It's like, you can't even pack it. It's, you know, at times. And there's, there's a buzz, there's some juice. And to be able to, um, run those guys out with the fan right next to me, you know, kind of watching. It was just really cool. man. It was, it's always good to be back. You know, it's so many great memories, obviously. And I'm happy. Look, I'm optimistic. I'm cautiously optimistic as most USC fans are right now. But it was certainly just awesome to be back and be a part of that. And see some guys, too. You know, see a lot of my former, my former buddies.

Let's talk about some of that optimism. Yep. So, okay, so those of you at home, Matt and I are sitting down this. It's Tuesday afternoon right now. We're talking Tuesday afternoon. So I've been Monday and Tuesday are big film days for me, as you know, prepping for the games. And I've watched a little bit of USC just because I've been impressed from afar. As you know, we've talked about this on some of our calls, the big noon kickoff calls. But as I dug in in the last day and a half to the film,

I got to tell you, Matt, like, this is not just, oh, easy front end of the schedule, you know. I think USC is much more for real than anybody is giving them credit for around the country. Like I think they're underrated right now as what are they? 22, 23, something along those lines. Yeah, I've watched pretty much every game this year on film and obviously watch the TV and all these things. And, you know, you try not to get excited because we've had fast starts. You know, we've had fast starts before and then they don't know how to finish.

And then you get into Big Ten play and you've got to be able to sustain. in that type of play, the physicality of the game, especially in this conference. But to your point, it's taken some time, but it does look different. I think you can start in the trenches. Offensive line is playing really well. They look more physical.

Now, again, time will tell when they start to play, you know, you got Illinois, but you got Michigan's and Notre Dame's coming up on the schedule. They look more physical. I think, and I know I want to talk about the run game and the offense, but I think the defense align is the biggest, thing for me and Joel, we get a chance to see these teams in person. And sometimes you can just tell, right? You can tell the way they look, the way they move, the athleticism. I mean, that was

almost the entire basis of me loving Oregon. Well, exactly. They're huge at the right spots. When you see Oregon and person, like, they look the part and they can play. You see Ohio State, they look the part they can play. USC has finally gotten to that point, seeing them this weekend, and standing in the end zone and seeing where the D-Linman go and the O-Lignment go. And I'm like, dude, like, we got some dudes now. Like, they're young and they need more depth

and they need to continue to recruiting. But they got some guys. So I think, I think the reason for optimism is we're a lot better up front on both sides of the ball. We're more physical. And then you have, you know, gosh, you have a quarterback who I just,

I'm just in love with Jaden Maiava, man. I'm in love with what he's doing. And he's gotten so much better from a year ago. So much better. So much better. He's playing really at a high level. I think a lot of it is what they're helping him do in the run game. You know, you know I talk about that a lot.

That I've always felt that Lincoln Riley's superpower at Oklahoma was that they were such a great running team. Yeah, they torch people in the passing game, but they were such a great running team for all of those years. And in fact, I brought it up on our call again. And I've said it on my show before. During Riley's tenure at OU, they were the number one team in the country as far as yards per rush over that time frame. And they're similar to that now. Wayman Jordan is fantastic. To your point about the size, by the way, just some numbers to back that up for people listening.

The defensive line, more particular. The average size of their too deep on the defensive line is now 300. pounds. That's their average weight is 300 pounds. Last year it was 278. That's a, that is a huge difference. New guys like Joachim Stewart, who was basically next year's number one recruit that reclassified. He's just, she's just scratching the surface. Like, he's just, he's good. Yeah, he's good. He's really good. I would say that I think the last couple years, and it's interesting because You know, we get so caught up in the moment and people want to fire people and this and that. It's hard.

You got to build and it's hard to build in this era of the portal and all these things. The run first mentality that you kind of mentioned and kind of going back to Oklahoma, last year in the last couple years, and I'm getting the point because I think the quarterback really matters in this discussion is he has committed. Last year is like they would just get away from the run, right? You would run. Woody Marks was fantastic. You get away.

You get away. And then all of a sudden it's like they're throwing the ball for. four or five times in a row. And it's just like, why, just why? And maybe there wasn't as much of a trust in the offensive line and the quarterback playing and all that. And I think, I was thinking about this because you and I've talked about this, and this isn't a secret.

Like, he's had Caleb Williams and Miller Moss are the last two quarterbacks Lincoln has had in the last handful of years. Caleb Williams was one of one talent. I mean, look what he just did last week. Like, he's a freak talent. But you were very limited with what you could do with him. because of the just this improvisation in the backyard ball and all that. He was just so good at that in college and he could get away with it.

But I think it handcuffs a play collar, which we've talked about, right? It just, it kind of plays without the system. So you had that. And then you had not a great offense align in those first couple years, right? So you had that part. So it was like, okay, how do we figure out this offense? And then you go to Miller Moss, who I love Miller. I've known Miller since he was literally five years old, very much a game manager,

couldn't run the football. It wasn't a factor in the run game. He could, you know, he would just, he was a high IQ guy, but he was very limited with what he could do, right? So then there was that extreme. Now all of a sudden you get Jade Maya, who I think is right dead set in the middle, right? I think he's athletic.

He can run. He chooses, I mean, he's a past first guy, which I love. But he can run and make play, so he can distress a defense. He can improvise. He had a great play last week against Michigan State, where he ran, and he also had the touchdown. I think we just showed him the highlight.

But he's also very good from the pocket. He's not turning the football over. So he's, I think my point is, is like Lincoln finally has a quarterback, kind of like what he had and probably like a baker and some of those guys in Oklahoma. But that just fits everything he's doing. And now all of a sudden we're seeing it all come to fruition, if that makes sense, you know. So sealing. Let's talk sealing for this group.

We've got them this week against Illinois. And after what we saw Illinois do last week against Indiana, which was not much, the injuries that they have in their secondary. Now all of a sudden, I thought this was going to be a coin flip game for USC. Like, we'll see what happens. Now all of a sudden, this is turned into a game. It's like, hey, you've got to go win this game on the road. Talk to me about sealing for this group.

What do you think it is with then, you know, Illinois, Michigan at Notre Dame, at Nebraska, you know, Oregon later on the road. What can they do? Do they have Washington as well? No. They do not have Washington. So I think the ceiling is, I think that I think they're a playoff team. I think that's the ceiling.

I think they can get in the playoffs. Does that mean 10 and 2? Just so that we're all like clear? Because I don't think 9 and 3 gets in. So you think they're like a 10 and 2, 11 and 1 team? I think there are 10. I think they're a 10 and 2 team. And I think 10 and 2 USC has got a great shot getting into the playoff.

And this is just, I literally look at this week in the next five weeks. And maybe Oregon is, I think Oregon's in November maybe, but you have Illinois, which I think USC is going to win this weekend. But then you have Michigan, you have Nebraska, you know, you have Notre Dame, and then you're at Oregon. I think Oregon's a tough one for them on the road. You have to win two of those four games. You have to basically win two of them.

You have to beat Notre Dame and Michigan, you know, assuming there's a loss to Oregon down the stretch, right? So I think 10 and 2 is in the playoff. And again, look, they were really bad on the road last year. They were really bad on the road last year. They couldn't close out games. So far, so good. But like, this is where you kind of get into the meat of your schedule.

This is where you kind of say, all right, can we sustain this type of play? You know, I don't, like, we got depth, but we're fairly thin in some areas. The past defense is not very good at the moment, right? That's one thing that can concern you against the organs of the world. and even Notre Dame with C.J. Carr can throw the football. So, but I think to your point, Joel, I think, I think they're a 10 and 2, 11 and one team if they continue to play they are. I mean, look, we could say they haven't played anybody this and that. Like, they're dominating in every facet of the game and they've improved in every area of the game.

Okay, you brought up coaching earlier and we did see our first coaching change, Mike Gundy, out at Oklahoma State. here's the question I have for you. What do you think about the Oklahoma State job? Like, is it a good job? Yeah, where do you rank it? Well, you know, is it a good job? Where do you think it sits in college football? Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

I think years ago, and, I mean, again, he was great. I mean, he's had a lot of great years there. And you could argue kind of now with the way the shift of college football and everything, it's, and maybe the lack of resources they have now in comparison to other schools, it's not as a sexy job as it probably once was. I don't, like, I don't know if it's a great job anymore, Joel. Like, I don't, like, maybe for, you know, a younger coach who's trying to get into a powerful team and trying to build something, but harder to recruit there, I think.

And, you know, the lack of, I mean, they've, they've had resources in the past, right? They've had, and then I think they've lost some of that. So, but I would just say this. I think probably was time for change, in my opinion, nothing but respect for coach, but probably time for change and to go and just to have a new kind of heartbeat of the team and a new voice of the team because they've just struggled. You know, they've struggled the last couple years. Other big news, and I know I touched on it earlier and but just wanted your thoughts on it

because we've talked at length about this guy and how much we've loved his play. But John Matea, he's, you know, the news is. You know, the news about his, the surgery that he's going to have because of the broken bone in his hand. And then now the timeline becomes in question. Is it going to be three weeks? Is it going to be four weeks? You know, are we looking at a month? Your thoughts on Mateer, and first, Matt, like, what you've thought of him so far, you know, because I know you've been high on him from even a Heisman perspective.

And then what do you think, what do you think Oklahoma can do without him in this next month? I think, I mean, I was talking about him week one. and just knowing kind of the player he was at Washington State and his ability in college football, right, to take over a game. And that's, I mean, that's what he's done every single week. Like, the kid is an absolute stud. He's so much, I mean, you look at, like, you look at some of these other quarterbacks. Like even Jack Jaden Maya is fitting this system, right?

But, like, Longstreet's come in and performed at a high level. Like, like, you can take sometimes quarterbacks out of systems plug and still be efficient. I don't know about this one, man, because he is so ball dominant in the way he plays with his running ability, with the quarterback design runs. And he's just, and he's a great pastures. He's a great player. He, I said it a couple weeks on Big New. He just reminds me of Baker Mayfield. Like, the whole kind of aura about him, right? Like, he just kind of plays with a chip on his shoulder. I think he's way more athletic than Baker was. I think they're in trouble, man. I really do. Hawkins is that, Hawkins, the kid from, he's the backup, right?

He played a little bit last year. I'd be curious, you know, you, I think you probably watch more tape on him, but it's just, I mean, it's just a major downgrade. However you look at it. And then you just look at the schedule. Like, that's the biggest thing. I know they have, they have an easy one this week, but they have Texas, I think, South Carolina.

And then you just get in the meat of the SEC. Yeah. To be, to be, you know, you got to, what, two, probably 10 and two again, maybe, maybe a nine. Like, I don't know, man. Like, I think they're in trouble. And who knows how long he's out? I mean, I mean, what do you think? You think they can withstand the next four to five weeks?

If you were going to have him, if he had to miss a month, like better it happen right now than late. For sure. Because the late part of their. Now, granted, everyone's going to be like, oh, he's going to miss Red River. But they've got Kent State. They've got South Carolina. Then they've got Ole Miss. And then just an onslaught at the end where they've got to face, you know, teams like Alabama and Missouri and Ole Miss and Auburn and LSU.

You know, that's kind of their last half. He has to be ready for that, Matt. If they're going to survive the season at all, he has to be ready for that. So if you're going to have him miss some time, this is it. I think that their hope would be that he can somehow magically or with a quick healing come back for the old miss game. But I don't. Is there a player more important to their team than John Meteer? No.

Right. No, because so for instance, and I talked about this earlier right here on the show, they can't run the football at all without him. You know, when you're talking about just running backyards per rush, they're 130th in the country. It's a stat that I shared earlier on the program. They can't do anything without him. They don't beat Michigan without John Mateer.

They don't beat Auburn without John Mateer. And they don't have many answers outside of him. So with him on the sideline, this is going to be a huge question mark. I don't think they beat Texas. They certainly are not going to beat Ole Miss. maybe not South Carolina. So he's got to get back as quickly as possible. And the Heisman, too, which is a bummer, you know,

because I know a lot of these kids. Where's this race at? Isn't that crazy? I was thinking about this. I thought he was for sure the front runner. This is just unfortunately going to knock him out of the race. And I think it is a cluster of you can go a million different ways. I think Dante Moore is going to be right up there,

especially with the opportunity he has this weekend. And I hate to say it. I don't hate to say it, but I think, I think Maiava and Jordan at USC have a real shot. Like, like, Miava's numbers are better than Caleb's at this point in the season. And for me, for Heisman, it's like, you know, like, how do you play, I mean, on the road, ranked teams, the better team,

like, how do you play and perform in those moments, right? That's the big thing. Just tons of opportunities. Like, like, Miava is a stud. He's got opportunities. And Weaamon, Jordan, the running back who no one knows about right now, but they will know about after, you know, after your call this. weekend because that kid's an absolute stud.

I mean, you could go Marcel Reed at Texas A&M. I think he's, he's been great. I mean, so much better. Yeah, Beck's interesting because the numbers, and again, I don't, this isn't a numbers award and I hate to say that, but he's, he's been fantastic. He's just, he's just, he's just playing the game. Like, he's just, he's doing everything. It's asked of him in winning games, most importantly.

There's not a lot of flash to his game. But yeah, this thing is wide open. like Jeremiah Smith. I mean, it's going to be tough for a receiver one, but there's so many good players. And by the way, I was thinking about this week one, you had, what, Arch and Nussmeyer and all this, and it is completely flipped.

Club Nick Sellers. Clubbed, it's like the top five preseason are literally not even the top 10. Yeah, no, I know. It is wild. Man, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you taking some time out of your busy schedule. I know you got young kids

and you've got your own podcast. throwbacks. You've got to go check out throwbacks, everybody. Appreciate you, man. Of course. It's always fun. I was on with you and Jay the other day. What was that? Two weeks ago? Three weeks ago? A couple weeks ago. Yeah. Well, you have to start of the season. Ohio State, Texas. I had to get you in your busiest week of the year. That's right. But, man, I appreciate you coming on this program. I always love chatting with you. Appreciate you, buddy. Thanks for having me, man. You got it. All right. There he goes. Matt Liner. Mattie's the best. I appreciate his time as always.

That'll do it for us. We'll be back tomorrow. Remember, we've got picks and previews for tomorrow and a monster weekend of college football. I cannot wait to talk about these games and break down these games. Remember, share the show with a friend. Hit that subscribe button. We're very close to 250,000 subscribers. Once we get there, we'll probably do something cool for all of you that subscribe to the show. Maybe not all of you. Maybe we'll just pick one of you and do something cool or something like that. I don't know. It'd probably be something. And now that I'm saying it live on the show, like we'll probably do. something. So we're only, what, a few thousand away? Hit that subscribe button and we'll be close to it and then follow us on social media, wherever you like to social media at Joel Clashio. That's where you can find us. Have a great night and we'll be back tomorrow with picks and previews.