The Joel Klatt Show: A College Football Podcast - Josh Pate on the state of College Football and teams to keep an eye on this season

Episode Date: August 26, 2024

FOX Sports’ lead college football analyst Joel Klatt is joined by Josh Pate of Josh Pate’s College Football Show to discuss the current state of the sport and what they are most excited for this year. The two discuss the ways this season will feel different than those of the past due to the 12-team Playoff format. They hit big questions around the sport including whether anyone can run the table in the SEC. In the Big Ten, they talk about why they both are picking Ohio State to win it all as well as which teams could surprise folks and find a spot in the Conference Championship Game. They dive into the anticipated chaos of the Big 12 and why that could be the most fun league this season. Joel and Josh also give their thoughts on Coach Prime and Colorado this season. Finally, the two wrap up by considering the NCAA’s proposed change of eliminating the Spring Transfer window.Check out Josh Pate’s College Football Show on Sundays, Tuesdays and Thursdays. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I can't go back. What I can at least try and lobby for is the people who created the mess to not still have their hands on the wheel. So at the very least, now you're speaking my language here. At the very, very least. College football has never been better. Interest has never been higher. Believe that we are at the dawn of the golden age of college football. It was an epic day of college football.

It was one of those days where you fall in love with the sport all over again. Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome into the show. We're back in the home studio. Can't wait for that. We are presented by Hampton by Hilton. Big thanks to them for all of their support, as always. We've got a huge show for you today.

But first, as always, as you know, go ahead and subscribe on YouTube. Make sure to leave a comment down below. I like to jump in there, as you know, and leave comments with you and converse a little bit. Wherever you listen to this podcast, make sure to rate, review us, do all of those things. And then follow me on Twitter at Joel Clatt. You can follow the show at Joel Clatt Show. wherever you like to social media. Hey, quick announcement and a huge, huge thank you to all the Badger fans,

and Bama fans, by the way, if you're going up there and you bought a ticket, we are sold out for the Madison Show, which will be live on that Thursday night before we have Wisconsin and Alabama, the third week of the season. So thank you. It's going to be awesome. We're going to have some guests. We're going to have a great time at the Majestic. That's going to be at 730 that Thursday night.

And we are sold out. So hopefully, I don't know, you can come, like, stand in line, I guess, and that's probably a thing. And we might get to you. Who knows? Maybe the fire marshal will not be there, and we can, like, sneak 50 extra people in. Who knows? Tonight's show I couldn't be more excited about it. And as you know, we don't normally have guests on.

Obviously, Big Noon Conversations is a big piece of our season. And those eight interviews are something that I love to do. And I go out during the course of the spring and interview these coaches. and get to visit these campuses, and that's something I really love to do. Outside of that, it is really rare for us to bring a guest on, partly because I'm a total narcissist, only slightly kidding. And other than that, it's just, I want to talk to you and give you my thoughts on college football, and I want to make sure that I'm keeping it brief. That being said, there are a few people in this industry that I just really enjoy listening to their content, and I wanted to bring one of those

on this show and have a bit of a collab here. I think we call this a YouTube collab. I'm not totally sure. I'm 42. I don't know the lingo. Josh Pate joins the Joel Clatt show. This has been sometime coming. Josh Pate, ladies and gentlemen.

I cannot believe this. I'm on the short list of all people. I'm on the short. How short is this list, by the way, Joel? It's short. It's like I got a golf tea right here. It's like a golf tea. short. So I appreciate you coming on. And like I said, I've been a fan for some time. I love listening

to your content, hearing your perspective. What I really love about is that we don't agree about everything. And yet we like to think deeply about the sport and then obviously love the sport just really on a daily basis, to be honest with you. But I'm really glad that we could make this work. And I'm happy that you're here, man. Yeah, man, we had a good one back in spring. Now, we had a a good one. We're on like a different floor of this building now. But I remember thinking at the end, you know, like when you do your coaching sit downs, the best ones are the ones that go about 35, 40 minutes, and afterwards you feel like you were about 15 minutes in. And it just time flew by. So that was what it was like. And at the time, what were we talking about? We're talking about

conference expansion and realignment. We were talking about Michigan investigation. So I can't wait to see where we go today. Well, listen, all of that might be on the table. But I, I did want to leave it a little bit open. Listen, I went through an outline and then I thought to myself, you know what? No, I think that it would be better and I think that the fans would enjoy it. To be honest with you, I think your fans, my fans, college football fans, and a lot of people I know consume both of our shows. And they should, by the way. I just want wherever this goes, it goes. Because I love hearing you talk about the sport. I love talking about it. So let me just open it up something just really broad, just really broad. Do you think this college football season

will feel different for those of us covering it and consuming it as fans? Wholeheartedly, yeah. I think it started already. As you and I are talking, we're just on the heels of Florida State losing a conference game in week zero. So in the old way of doing things, which I didn't hate, by the way, but in the old way of doing things, they would already be on thin ice with hot blades, as meanwhile would say, and now it's kind of like, all right, you got your loss out of the way,

can probably afford one more, now you settle into the season, there's that. But I also think, I don't know, I don't think anyone among us can look and say definitively, this is what NIL and the portal have done.

Everyone thinks that the tops of the tallest trees have been shaved off, or maybe depth is not what it used to be and maybe you're like a critical injury away from just totally being kneecapped. That all could be true, but we don't really know. So we're going to find out this year. And like we were just doing our show before you and I started talking. And I was asking like allowed, where are the chaos sort of pivot points? Like when Florida State is a double digit favorite and they're losing to Georgia Tech, that's a shock to the senses. Not to mention everyone's coming back to the sport. And so it's kind of a shock to the sense is to already see that.

Well, what if Clemson's in a dog fight with Georgia week one? Like what if Texas has their offense stoned against Michigan and Week 2? What if Wisconsin game you're going to be at? What if they give Bama trouble? My point is, what if we have like three or four of these like come to Jesus moments? You thought you knew, but you don't really know anything about the season. And it all happens in the first month. And you realize, hey, maybe there's no truly elite team out there.

Maybe we really do have 20 teams plus that could vie for a playoff spot. Well, to me, that feels a lot of different than years past. I agree with you. Here's what I would say. I actually believe, I see, I actually believe that we can kind of track what NIL and the Transfer Portal have done. And I think that the evidence is in who we've seen play for the national championship and play in the playoff in the last couple of years.

You know, the initial inception and the initial era of the four-team playoff, man, you could write them in pin to begin the year. And I, to be honest with you, hated it. I actually argued against the four-team playoff way back when. And then once we got the four-team playoff, I very quickly understood or at least felt that we needed to grow because we narrowed the definition of success to those four teams. and nothing else was a definition of success. And I've talked about this for a long time on this show. But I think that what you've seen in the last two years is veteran leadership and parity show up in huge ways.

TCU plays for a national championship. Michigan goes 15 and 0, wins a national championship. Washington plays for a national championship. As an undefeated, by the way, it's not like they just kind of, you know, found their way into that. Texas comes all the way back. Alabama can beat a Georgia team, though, was on. a huge winning streak and going for three straight titles, I just felt like all of a sudden,

what ended up happening is that rather than six teams or five teams at the beginning of the year, being able to say we can win a national championship, I felt like that was extended out. This is partly why I'm excited for this year. So let me go back to kind of what I think is going to feel different. I think it's going to feel different because we're going to have a lot more contenders and at least contenders for what I would consider to be a definition of success, the college football playoff. Josh, I think we're going to be in November, and I think there's going to be 25 to 30 teams and fan bases, more specifically, that think that they're playing meaningful

games for the college football playoff. That is going to feel like night and day different from what November's past have felt like, at least in my estimation. I think so. So here's what would greatly help because if you just have the way it used to play out, if we have a few elite teams elevate themselves. You'll pretty well see the riding on the wall come November and you'll know, like if Georgia's rolling or if Ohio State's rolling, you'll know that you're playing for a spot in the playoff, but I mean, Iowa State's not really going to challenge Ohio State. That could happen. All right. So what you actually need to hope for here for the folks who love the expanded playoff, if you want more than just suspension of disbelief, if you want more than just pretending it's a pro

wrestling match and saying, I'm going to pretend like we could beat that Georgia Tech. I know really we couldn't. If we have no elite teams this year, this could set up for the next five years plus people legitimately believing everyone in that tournament has a shot. Because if the first version of the 12 team tournament is like the 2007 season was, where you have like a two loss LSU or in this world, if you have a very flawed Texas team or like a very flawed Clemson team or whoever it is, go on to win the whole thing. That's the kind of year that you use as like a teaching point. That's the basis for everyone's expectation in the new expanded era.

And if you see a very flawed team win the title, if you see like a two-loss team end up winning the title, that sets up the precedent that anyone could win it. Whereas if someone just buzz saws their way through this thing and beats everyone by 30 in the first couple of rounds, then it becomes, I mean, we could play to punch our ticket for the playoff, but it's really hard to condition ourselves that we're playing for a legit shot at the title. So I think the way that thing plays out,

And the other thing about that with this whole G5 auto bid thing, there's a huge difference. You know this as well as I do. There's a huge difference in Memphis running the table being ranked 10th in the real rankings and getting a spot versus what was it last year. Liberty was 23rd. And they would get an auto bid for that thing and take a bid away from someone else. So the perception that everyone will recalibrate their mind on in this 2024 year, like a lot of it's going to ride on just happenstance of how that plays out.

that would lead me to kind of just like what are your feelings in terms of the imbalance in college football because and here's the reason I ask that is and you just touched on it which is why I want to go there this idea that you know some some of the big boys might be like really good as compared to even teams that that squeak into the playoff here's here's how I would put it I don't think we have a power four. See, I think that that's absolutely a fallacy. I think that we have a power two, a group of two, and then the small school five. That's how I think college football is separated. I think we saw a little of that in the Florida State game, to be quite honest with you. Like the ACC, now everybody is going to be looking at the ACC being like, well, are they any good? If Florida

State goes to the title game, are they any good? Do they get a second team? So this, this, this, this, notion of imbalance in college football as as it relates to what it has been and then what it could be, do you have thoughts on that? Yeah, I don't know that I could hate it any more than I do because it doesn't feel like it was necessary for us to get here. If we rewind, we could go back to the four team, the BCS, and we could rewind to the turn of the millennium if we wanted to, and we just backtrap the steps of college football. At every turn, it, every turn, it's, you know, It doesn't feel like we had to take the step that we did. You know, it doesn't feel like the SEC had to gobble up Texas and Oklahoma, but they could,

so they did. In turn, it doesn't feel like the Big Ten had to go poach four teams that could see the Pacific Ocean out their office window, but they did. So then you get to the Big Two era, and that's kind of why I use the phrase suspension of disbelief. I mean, I used that for a reason because growing up as a kid, I used to watch pro wrestling, and that's what they taught you to do. You know it's fake. You've got to suspend your disbelief. That's the only way you can buy into it.

Well, to a certain degree, man, if we're watching, if we're watching rosters out in the Big 12, knowing full well where they finish in recruiting rankings every year and what the NFL draft says about them versus what it says about the big boys and the Big Ten and the SEC, and yet we're going to throw around that power four moniker. We're going to pretend like every conference champ just deserves an equal seat at the table. Do we not have to suspend disbelief a little bit? And then the follow-up to that, and the big concern I have is once you get down the slippery slope of the big two, you and I talked when we talked in the spring about the whole expanded playoff,

but that the format really wasn't set long term. There's that 2026 sort of look-in provision. And basically the way I read that is it's a two-year trial period for the power two to see how this goes. And if the SEC gets five in this year and the Big Ten gets four in, they're cool with it. But if the committee doesn't perfectly acquiesce to how they think things should run, it's well within their power now and well within their right to just say, we kind of want to participate in this, but by no means do we need to or have to participate in this.

We may just want to do our own thing. And then a lot of the folks who clamored for this and a lot of folks who like waved the palm palm and got excited because every change is automatically progress somehow, they're sitting there with egg on their face. and I cannot believe, like, I signed off on this. I can't believe I contributed to this. So, like, I wish you could show me this mechanism where you could pull the lever and the balance actually starts to divide itself out a little bit more.

I don't know that that's realistic, but I'm not a huge fan of it because I love this thing mattering equally coast to coast as much as it can. Yeah, it's interesting. And, I mean, coast to coast, at least the big ten is coast to coast. I guess you could say that. It does seem like, you know, I'm of the belief that you can't put toothpaste back in a two. You know, you know that. And so once we have something, once we have a structure, I always look at it and just think like, okay, well, where is it broken? Where is it good?

And where do we go from there? Here's the trade-off, Joel. I'm going to interrupt you one time this whole day. No, please do. I welcome it. So I agree with you. Okay. Because like I wasn't crazy about the playoff expansion. But like I, so I talked to you about it before. And anyone who adopted your opinion about that when they came at me that say, yeah, but you can't go back, you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, which is true. Here was my counter to that. I can't go back. What I can at least try and lobby for is the people who created the mess to not still have their hands on the wheel.

So at the very least, now you're speaking my language here. At the very, very least, can I please just clinch both fists and advocate that the ones who keep making the mess don't get tasked with cleaning up the mess by creating more of what gave us the mess. So like, I know I can't go back. Here's what Josh are talking about. Basically the same individuals that gave us the Bull Alliance system, then the BCS system, and then the 14th playoff have now made the 12 team playoff. It's basically the exact same people. And here's how you know that.

Because they are jamming bowl games and neutral sites into the middle of the playoff, which is insanity, right? But that's just kind of what it is for them, because they can't get away from some of these old relationships and just make something totally new. This is going to change. It's not going to be 12. It's going to be 14 before you know it.

It's not going to go to 16 because the champ of the SEC and the Big 10 need to not only have an advantage, but their championship games have to be valuable. So everyone's like, oh, this is going to be 16 in no time. And I'm like, no, actually, it's not because Greg Sanky and Tony Petiti know that they cannot devalue. you their conference championship game to a point that the network won't pay $50 million for that individual game. It's, this is all, you know, it's basically all math to a certain extent. So

that's kind of playoff. And listen, I know I'm a nerd. I can sit here and talk about that structure for a long time. I do. There's some things that I think are going to be really good about that. There's some things that are going to be a downside. I want to move more specifically into this game, or excuse me, this season. This FSU loss early in the year, it kind of brings up this idea and you touched on it that, hey, all is not lost for Florida State. How do you think that's going to impact specifically the SEC, which looks like it's going to be a nightmare for teams like Oklahoma and Georgia, even though Georgia, I think you and I both agree, like as talented as anybody in the country, is there anybody that can actually go through that

schedule undefeated? No, no, I've got them, I mean, power rating wise. I think they're best in the country to start the season. I think they're going to lose two games. I don't even have them in Atlanta. I don't even have them playing for the conference title game. So that's just a matter of scheduling. When you, I mean, when you're looking at any kind of odds board or rankings or ratings or what have you and you're going to, what, they go to Bama, they go to Texas, they go to Ole Miss. They play five of my, they play six of my top 21 teams, five of them away from Athens. That totality of that's going to catch up to you. Sabin's best teams rarely went undefeated. Kirby's lived in the SEC East for a while, and now they venture out into a little more shark-infested water.

They may be the biggest shark there, man, but that doesn't mean you can't get a bite taken out of you. So I say all that to say, you know, one of the other chaos scenarios this year is what if there is legit cannibalization in the SEC? And or, and or what if these teams just aren't elite? What if they're just really good? What if Georgia is an adult-right? What if parity over the last couple of years is actually what's going on? And the elite teams aren't, you know, tangibly way better than everybody else.

That's interesting. What if we just tune in Saturday? It's like a noon kickoff Eastern time, I think. What if Clemson is up 2320 on Georgia, fourth quarter? No one expects that. If they're a two touchdown favorite? What if, like we just said, what if Texas goes to Michigan? They can't move the ball in week two.

And it's 13 to 12 in the middle of the quarter. Not out of the question, by the way, with that defense. Not out of the question. And so Bama goes to Wisconsin. What if they're clunky up there? early on. And all of a sudden, everyone's just losing two games. Okay, so then let me interrupt you. Who's the beneficiary of that? That conference specifically. Missouri. Missouri and Ole Miss. Those are the two beneficiaries. There is such imbalance in that

SEC schedule this year that you could have Missouri, not so much Ole Miss, you could have Missouri, you know, from a Vegas standpoint, be power rated as the fifth best team in that conference and go playing Atlanta and in a one game situation, have a chance to win the thing. It's really crazy. crazy. When you look at what the schedule makers dealt Florida versus what they dealt Missouri, it's not even the same sport, much less the same conference. No, and I would point more towards Oklahoma because I think Oklahoma is just more of a legitimate contender than Florida. I know that Florida's schedule is brutal. I just, I don't think any of us believe that like, oh, Florida could make a run if it weren't for that schedule. They're not there yet

in terms of roster, but oh, you is. Venables is in his third year. They've got a quarterback that they believed in enough to allow Dylan to walk. And now he's, you know, in some cases, the odds on favor to win the Heisman trophy as a starting quarterback for Oregon. They've got a defense that is largely back, Billy Bowman, Danny Stutzman. And yet they've got these six games. I don't even, so I did this whole thing. I don't even include the Auburn game, which is a fool's errand on my part.

I understand that. But they've got these six games in their schedule that are brutally tough. You know, obviously Texas, they've got Tennessee, they've got LSU, they've got all these games. And in my mind, I was like, you know, if they just split them and they go, you know, nine and three, they could probably go to the playoff. But in reality, when you start filling out the bracket and you realize Notre Dame's got an easy schedule, and you realize the group of five get in, you realize the ACC gets in, and you realize the Big 12 gets in, all of a sudden, guess who gets boxed out?

A nine and three Oklahoma team because they lost three times with a brutal schedule. Hey, that two-game stretch, they got Tennessee and their, week four. Hippo going back to Norman for the first time as a head coach, and then they go to Auburn the very next week. That is a real quick one, two across the jaw of just kind of life in the SEC. They may be smack dab in the middle of it or out of it already by the end of that two game stretch. But you know, you just mentioned something. I don't want to totally overlook this. It may be nothing, but the two favorites right now in the Big Ten, according to most people, at least, would be some combination of Ohio State and Oregon. Yeah.

They each have quarterbacks that kind of got chosen over. I mean, Kansas State thinks they got the better of that proposition between Avery and Will Howard. And then you just mentioned Dylan, Gabriel, he moves on because they got Jackson Arnold there. And how crazy is it that at the top of the leaderboard, two viable national title contenders, mind you, and Ohio State and Oregon are being led by quarterbacks that kind of were the second option in the other places? It's just something to file away from down the road. I find it so fascinating. You know, the OU, Oregon one with Dylan Gabriel and Jackson Arnold,

I do believe it was a case of styles and fit. Like Dylan fits what Oregon and Will Stein, their offensive coordinator, wants to do more. Jackson Arnold fits what Oklahoma is built to do. You know, with all those guys, Andrew L. Anthony and all those guys on the outside, they need to be a down-the-field passing team. Well, that was not what Dylan Gabriel was going to do. And so when I did their game last year, even the game at Cincinnati, they won the game.

And I was just like, it doesn't feel like a fit. I love what Dylan is doing. I love what the wide receivers are doing. But when you try to mesh them together, it's like, nah, I don't know. That's why I think Jackson Arnold is going to be a better fit for Oklahoma, while Dylan Gabriel could probably excel at a really high level at Oregon. And maybe the same could be said about Will Howard and Kansas State moving to Ohio State. But this whole thing with Ohio State is I don't even think they need.

let me choose my word carefully here. They do not need great quarterback play this year with their roster, with Chip Kelly, with that run game. So he's going up there. And the value that he brings is not his style. It's his experience. And the fact that he's got that experience, I think, is going to pay dividends for them. Move to the Big Ten.

You and I both are backers of Ohio State. I think it's pretty crazy. to be, to be honest with you, with that roster. They're veteran, their experience, they're talented. They remind me of what Michigan was a year ago. Yeah, which is a compliment to them that they only shed because of the logo that you just mentioned in the sentence. That is about as versatile a team in terms of style they could choose to win with, I think,

as any team in the country. Also, I think if we go back to like the mid-20 teens, when Sabin had his vintage defenses talent-wise, they'd be a week where they'd stone someone. There'd be a week where someone called him and hung 31 on them. The point is they won different ways throughout the year. So that's the roster that Ryan Day has there right now. And so it wouldn't surprise me.

I'm excited to see their secondary against Dylan Gabriel, by the way, when they go up to Eugene. Like that's one of the individual matchups of the year. I just nothing needs to. With Tess on the outside. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing more needs to be said about that. But I also think, like Ohio State, I think a lot of folks got caught up on the portal stuff.

And the first words out of anyone's mouth once you walk in the building is, yeah, it's great. The portal's great. It's great we got Caleb Downs, maybe the best football player in the building. But the ones that came back, just like the story was with Michigan the year before, the ones that came back. In Michigan's case, by the way, you know this. I don't think a lot of people do. Guys who turned down big offers to go elsewhere and came back.

Ohio State, maybe not so much turning down the big offers because you can make a lot of money at Ohio State, but choosing to come back. And a roundabout way, talking about 20 minutes ago about what NIL has done. Carson Beck's back at Georgia because NIL allowed him to be back at Georgia this year. This Ohio State defense, a lot of them are back instead of playing on Sunday or in training camp somewhere because NIL allowed them to be. Did you see that thing Jim Nagy put out a couple of months ago now where he was talking about what the standard list, how deep in standard years their pre-draft board would look like before a season and how much deeper it was right now and how it was so glaring that there were a lot more guys that used to be headed off to Sunday that are still around the sport this year because on the fringe of first, second, third round,

NIL has kept them here. Ohio State, I think, is the biggest beneficiary of that. Someone could go win a conference because a couple of guys hung around this year. Yeah, listen, there's no doubt. Oregon, by the way. I think it's going to be a great team. I believe in Oregon. I know you do as well.

I do, and we joked on social media, you know, no one on game day picked Ohio State to win it. And I'm like, you know what, that's fine, because there are great teams, and you and I both know that. But then you said nobody believes in you accept me, Ohio State. And I'm like, I read that. And I was like,

shame on them. Hey, look, look, there's room. There's room for both of us in the front seat. I'm just saying how great is it that you can latch yourself on to the most talented roster in college football. Like they're the underdogs. It's like this little caboose with a flat wheel on it. Someone's got to take them.

We'll take them. That's fine. Go box. I'm like, it's like, it's like you're picking in the school yard and all the sudden people, you know, that passed over for like three or four picks and you're like, what, I'm sorry. That kid hasn't been picked yet. What? What does he have?

Yeah. I'll take you. I don't care what rash he has. That'll clear up by playoff time, if you know what I mean. Like, I'm in. So I thought that that was pretty funny. What are the teams that you think could take advantage of the scheduling imbalance in the Big Ten? Penn State, weird answer, I know, because they don't play a soft schedule. Penn State's last four games are probably against non-ranked opponents. The way I see them is you got them in week one. So you're doing the Penn State, West Virginia game. It seems to me like the quintessential, we got two new coordinators. We're trying out a new offensive coordinator. We haven't given up on this quarterback at all, nor should you. Still got a ton of talent. We're mixing and matching at wide receiver. It seems like the kind of team that takes a little while to get itself up to offensive speed. Now, in years past, Penn State's just kind of been what they are offensively.

They can put up mirage numbers against inferior opponents. Big boys shut them down. Ohio State Michigan shut them down. This year, I'm I think they probably have a little bit higher ceiling in terms of offensive potential. There's no excuse why both those tailbacks shouldn't be 1,000-yard caliber tailbacks. I think the Koldeniki, Drew Aller, marriage probably makes a lot more sense than the guy they had there last year. So my point there is, go when, like an SMU somehow got by Nevada. Doesn't matter. They won.

Go beat West Virginia by any means necessary. Buy yourself some time to get that offense up to speed. If it gets up to speed, I don't care if they beat Ohio State or they don't beat Ohio State. At home should be a competitive game. They've got four games at the end of the year that they can just flex and flex and flex and flex in. If they've hit their offensive stride and it's a higher stride, therefore they're earning benefit of the doubt in the committee's mind. And they're an 11 and 1 or a 10 and 2 non-conference champ. Forget if they go to the conference title game and win it.

That's a whole different conversation. I think their schedule sets up well for them because it's not backloaded. Yeah, I agree. You know, in some ways, them and Ole Miss are kind of mirrors to me. You know, you could put them at third, fourth right now if you're looking at their conference. And then you think to yourself, yeah, but with the schedule that they have compared to what the other teams have, they should be, I mean, Penn State candidly really should go to the Big Ten championship game. It's the top two seats.

They don't have the division. No team was left out of the four-team playoff. more often than Penn State, who would have been in a 12-team playoff. Of the last eight years, they would have made six playoffs. I don't know what that would have done to perception for James Franklin and everybody at Penn State. Here's another one, though. I want to throw out another one. And this is one that I'm kind of like, I know, I know I get it,

and maybe I'm not supposed to as an old Colorado guy. But Josh, Nebraska really should be playing some games in November that have actual legitimate implications for the playoff. If you look at their schedule, they've got Colorado at home, if they can beat them, they likely would be an undefeated team facing Ohio State. And then even if they lose to Ohio State with one loss, they're sitting in that same boat we're talking about Penn State, that you're playing really meaningful games in November.

That's the one where we've sat here in years past and looked at a workable schedule for Nebraska. and then you get reality, just hit you in the face. Same thing this year. I just believe in them a lot more this year. The whole Matt Rule, year two, principal is in play, by the way. Right. Because he did it. He's done it.

I mean, general rule of thumb, if you do it at Temple and Baylor, you can probably do it in Lincoln, Nebraska. So how about that whole flip of Dylan Riola from Georgia to Nebraska? And what was funny about that, you would have loved to hear this reverberating through the South. in the South were up in arms because money was the deciding factor in that recruitment. I don't know if you're aware. I don't know if you're aware, but, you know, scoundrel, I think, was a word I heard thrown around in regard to Matt Rul in Nebraska. Well, he's going to be a true freshman.

He's going to start for them. It reeks of the kind of thing where if you do nothing more, then flip your fortune in one possession games. You go from a seven and five caliber team to 10 to 11. If they're 11 and 1, they're in. That's right. Well, they may be in the conference. title game, but even if they're not, yeah, especially if there's chaos elsewhere,

you need to tell me a committee member doesn't get romantic about the possibility of putting Nebraska in the playoff? These are human beings. Absolutely they would. 100%. 100%. I'd be remiss if I didn't go through a couple of the other conferences. I hope you don't mind if I keep you for a little bit. We're good, man. I don't even have a bedtime tonight, actually. That's amazing. Big 12. Deepest conference in the country. I'll do respect. to the SEC, I'll do respect to the Big Ten. There's seven legitimate teams and I'm like, you could win the conference title.

There's seven. And because of that, I think it's almost a zero percent chance they'll get a second team into the playoff. Just because I don't trust with what that league is, I do not trust the team that

loses the conference championship game to have fewer than three losses at that point, if that's one of their losses. So at that point, like, it's just not going to happen. When you start doing the math and you play out these with teams like Missouri and Penn State and and Ole Miss and Oklahoma,

there's too many other teams from the power conferences. So this Big 12 could be like wild. Here's what I encourage people to do. When you're talking about the Big 12, pretend the playoff doesn't even exist. And this will be the most fun thing to watch you watch all season. I started calling at America's College Football Conference. back in the spring. And it was in response to people. I wasn't just trying to come up with some

moniker. Brett Yormark didn't pay me for it or anything, but I kept listening to the most common complaints. I mean, if you asked him, he probably would because that's a good name. I got no shortage of ideas over here. But look, you aggregate this just like I do. The most common complaints the average fan would have is they're a little turned off by what NIL actually has become. They are very turned off about the amount of roster churn and how meaningless a roster is because of how much of it may be flipped next year. Coaches as well, a third of the coaches in college football changed jobs this past cycle, which is just an absurd number. People are turned off by that stuff. Okay, well, if you claim you're turned off by that and you love competitive balance, where do you

have that in more plentiful supply or the things you don't like in less supply than the big 12? So watch it for what it is. They're probably only going to get one team in. But, man, you're talking about one possession game after one possession game. You're talking about 10 teams, I think I counted earlier tonight with like plus 1,200 or better odds to win the conference right now. I could pitch you on Iowa State. Pound for pound, I think TCU is the most underrated team in the country right now. Certainly, Kansas State, Utah.

I didn't even include TCU in my seven. So that would move my number to eight. Nobody is. And Sonny Dykes would love for you to keep it that way. The only shot that this, ironically, the only shot they have of making more playoff noise is for the conference to be less entertaining. So like a Kansas State and a Utah, they just elevate way above and beyond. And then you've got, you know, what's crazy is a couple of years ago, how crazy would it be for you to say a team from the Big 12 is not going to win the conference title and they're going to go to the national title game? And a four team field because that's what TCU did.

History remembers them winning the conference title and they didn't. Kansas State did. But because the two elevated, kept winning close games every week, they were able to. I don't think that'll be the case. Selfishly, I'd rather it just be a car wreck out there every week, but in the best of ways. And I've got my heartstrings really being tugged by Iowa State right now. Because I don't think Matt Campbell's any different a coach than he was two years ago when he was everyone's darling. I know what you're doing.

You're riding the old excite bike track. Sure. That's what you're doing, right? Yeah, pays all. Because that's what Iowa State is. They're a developmental program. I'm never going to stay way up on top. That's just not what they're going to do.

They don't have the money. They're not going to recruit that way. But if you tell Matt Campbell that you can get some guys, he can take them up the mountain and get to a place where they're playing really elite football. And they leave, guess what? They're going to go way back down. It's going to take them a couple years to then get the dip and then come right back up. And I think what you're saying is you think that they're on that little.

trajectory right there where they could be a team like they were three, four years ago. I don't even get why it's hard to see. People have the memory of a tomato can. Like they all of a sudden forget like two years ago. First off, they forget what history has told them Iowa State football is. History says there's not even a peak. It's just a forever dip. So then he comes along and he includes a peak every now and then. Well, then people see him win like eight or nine games one year and then he doesn't repeat it so he's trash and good thing USC didn't get him. It's like, this guy is ringing every drop out of the sponge that is Iowa State. I'm telling you some Southern teams, I don't want to name anyone in particular, came after that quarterback

with a lot more money than he makes at Iowa State. And he chose to stay there. I mean, Abu Samma, that running back chased a lot of other guys off. Jalen Noel out at wide receiver. Like, they've got the kind of guy that an Iowa State would need to have. They all got to stay healthy, obviously. They got the kind of guy that if the dust clears and they're playing in Dallas, in early December for the Big 12 championship game. That's the kind of guy they would have to have. Colorado. Go.

Yeah. Yeah. I want you to lead this. Colorado, what am I looking at it? I think you guys are going double-digit one week one. I am bullish on Colorado. People call me a homer.

But I've done this for long enough to understand that when you have returning starters at important spots, then the way the games, played out in the previous season matter a lot. And when you look at what Colorado was last year, they played six ranked opponents. Oregon blew them out. And in the other five, they're in a one possession game in the fourth quarter. Now you've got a returning starting quarterback who might be a top 10 pick. You've got a returning utility man and Travis Hunter, likely a top 10 pick, maybe top five pick, probably a top five pick. And you're much better on the line of scrimmage and you don't have

to face the gauntlet of quarterbacks that they faced last year in the pack of 12. I know Vegas has said five and a half. My over under number is eight. Oh my goodness. I think they're an eight win team all day long, maybe more. So let me hold on posture. Let me lean back up. I think they've got a much better football team than people realize. People have gotten so caught up in that noise that I just flat out think they're a better football team than five and a half. Now, I think they will, I think they're going to flex a little bit in week one against North Dakota State. That's my opinion. That's not a conference game, though. They hop up to Nebraska week two and it gets started. Here is the potential downfall, if there is one.

I think that two things, I'm going to weirdly mix Utah in here, but please follow me because this is going to be convoluted. Utah's advantage in the PAC 12 was that their style was atypical to pretty much anyone else in the PAC 12. So it was always a matchup nightmare when you had to play them because they were the only one that wanted to go through you, everyone else kind of wanted to go around you. They come into a conference now that is a bunch of that. And it may be that style is not the week in, week out advantage for Utah that it used to be. Still a really good team. They may be the best team there. But it's not, it's not physically that they overwhelm folks and bloody their lip and everyone taps out like they would for them sometimes in the PAC 12 because

the PAC 12 or the Big 12 is not a pinball league. It is very much a blue collar roll up your sleeves kind of league now. People just don't watch it enough so they don't know that. I mean, Oklahoma State's going to run the ball. Kansas State's going to run the ball. Your contenders are going to run the rock. So then Colorado comes in here. So I had a buddy of mine who, kind of a casual fan, he'll watch Colorado, he'll watch some of the big boys. He texts me. And he says, whoa, man, Dion and them, they're going to the Big 12.

They're going to run Rush out over that league. They'll spike right to the top. I said, why is that? He said, well, they've got players like Travis Hunter and Shadour. The Big 12 doesn't really send a whole lot of guys into the first round of the draft, do they? I said, no, they do not. That's not necessarily the advantage that you think it is, though, because what you end up in the tradeoff with and the aggregate is you end up with a lot of fourth and fifth year seniors littered on the starting 22. They're guys who a lot of times know this is the pinnacle of their career.

They're great culture programs. All of them are like just little bowling balls that if you've got your you know what together and you're talented, you can do what Alabama did to Kansas State a couple of years ago in the Sugar Bowl. However, if you're not and you're just a bunch of pieces instead of a program, you get your tree shaking every week in the Big 12. So I either see it going really good or really poor for Colorado. I don't really have like a middle of the road prediction for them. However, that's kind of how I feel about them this year. Here's my other question for you because my take on just Dion in general, because there's a headline of him every day, is some of it. I like some of it I don't like.

In totality, I love that he's here. Like, I love Dion Sanders in college football. I always have possessed this very weird trait that I don't have to approve of every single action in your life to holistically, like, appreciate that you're in my life. In this case, you're in college football. And yet, I don't see that in a lot of really plentiful supply right now. It's like if Dion does something I don't like, I've got to castigate the guy. not necessarily crazy about some of the stuff he's done.

Don't always green checkmark everything he says. Love that he's there. But you're, I mean, you are Colorado. Like you played out there, you're closer to the program than I am. How do people feel about that? Well, people around the program love him. People in Boulder love him. People in Colorado love him.

You know, and I'm the same way. If I was advising him on a day in and day out basis, would I agree with everything that he does and says? No, no, I wouldn't. Does that make me, like, throw my hands up and say, like, well, he's terrible. Of course not. Of course not. Part of what makes him who he is and makes him valuable, in particular to that program,

is that he is unapologetically himself all the time, all the time. And he doesn't care what you think about him. He doesn't care what that guy thinks about him when he's dealing with you. he is genuinely one of one in so many different ways. And I will just tell you that that program, this is what people fail to realize. That program couldn't sell a ticket. They were the worst Power 5 program in the country. And he came in and made them relevant.

He made them valuable. And now he put them on a stage where everybody's got an opinion. So he doesn't care what your opinion is. He just cares that there's an opinion. and a lot of people around Colorado are in that boat. This program is finally relevant after more than two decades of basically being irrelevant. So that's what he does. And the other part about this, and I get slammed for saying this, but I'll say it again.

And I think that Nick Saban and what he said kind of backs this up, he's more old school than you think. I know he talks a lot of flash, but he is more old school and how he deals with players and what they're required to do both around the building, on the practice field, in the wait room, in the locker room, all of those areas. And he's got a very high level of expectation for all of those players. How that works out this year, I'm not sure. I do believe that they're going to win eight games, maybe more.

And in particular, if Shudur plays well, remember, he got sacked 52 times, Josh, 52. This is one of those cases where people are like, it's very similar to Lincoln Riley with a defense. Everyone's like, well, he's never going to play good defense. Well, does he need good defense or does he need average defense? For Shador, do they need a good offensive line or do they just need an average offensive line? Because there is a huge, a gigantic step forward from horrible like they were a year ago

up front to just average. And if they get that, then you can probably talk me into a lot of wins. Let me spin forward into some other things just really quick. Because I know we're going along. Two things popped up newswise. One of them we don't really know the details. So I don't know if I want to dive into the whole Michigan things and the NOA and all of those things. That's all going to play out.

The Stallions Netflix thing comes out Tuesday. That's largely why we're going to get some of these allegations actually made public. is what it is. There's also some news about the transfer portal, and they're talking about doing away with the spring window. Do you have thoughts on either? Because I kind of wanted to give you the floor on those two newsy topics. I wonder if the post-spring portal window in a vacuum would make more sense instead of having the one window be where it is. Yeah, and let me, I just threw it out so broad. What we're discussing here is that there is talk that rather than doing two windows, one right after the season and one after the spring, that they would do away with the spring window. That's the news. Now, a lot of us disagree with that. And I'm sensing that's exactly what you're

talking about right now because I think if you're going to keep one, you keep the spring window. Right. Yeah. Well, it makes sense, which of course is why we're not going to immediately get there. But I'm just thinking out loud, I don't even think you have to know a whole lot about college football week to week to know, well, if you keep the one after spring, that's when guys have figured out large where they are on the depth chart. You've watched a freshman class come in. You've watched, we've watched where you stack up in the pecking order. Also, if we're keeping the one we're talking about keeping, instead of keeping the spring window, correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't that overlap with the end of the season? It looked like that. 100%. By the way, the portal this year

will be wide open for the first three rounds of the playoffs. Insane. It's crazy. It's insane. Yeah. So, So if I'm going to have a window, sounds like it makes a little more sense for me to have one after spring. And of course, the tradeoff for that is coaches, nightmare, you've got to really have a sense of who's going and who's staying. And then you've got the crowd over here that says, I don't feel bad for you. You make $9 million a year. And then I sit there and go, well, he's got a good point. But on the other hand, he's got a good point. And so, but post spring clearly to me, it almost surprised me that that was the proposal they flowed out instead of keeping the post spring.

I agree. I agree. I totally agree. And the only conclusion, and this might be cynical of me, the only conclusion is that it impacted the coaches more personally in the spring because they're not vying for jobs. The carousel is not moving for them in the spring. And they're trying to go have vacations and go have spring meetings with the rest of their conferences. And they don't want to be by the pool getting a telephone call about like, hey, you need 100 extra grand to keep this guy and so on and so forth.

it's more inconvenient for the coaches, the spring window, than it is the one that happens in December. Because in December, they're just in the tornado. So it's like, what's one more car floating around in the tornado? What's one more desk or couch floating around in the tornado for them? Because it's chaotic in and of itself. They've got early signing day. They've got to try to get ready for a bowl game or the playoff or all this stuff. So it's like, what's the transfer portal window?

But in the spring, that's when the coaches are like, man, this really impacts my quality of life. And I think that's why they've targeted the spring window. Hey, one more thing. Yeah, one more thing just to slide it in there because I actually think the biggest rule that got changed that's going to have the biggest impact on the sport was that change in the coaching roster and who's allowed to be an on field coach everywhere I went in spring. And then I went, I've gone to a few practices this fall. It's all they're talking about. It's all that coaches are talking about. I was somewhere last week, major program. and the head coach points out two guys.

He said, we just got him. Would have been a coordinator like New Mexico State. I'm throwing out a random name. But instead, we've got him as just an off-field analyst because he can coach on the field now. And so that kind of has seeped its way in, but it was a rule that got passed pretty recently. This December, there will be a mass flood of on-field caliber coaches,

in some cases, coordinator types at the G5 and FCS level, especially head coaches in some cases at those levels that just end up in roles. You may not even know they're on the staff and they end up at a Florida or a Clemson or a Tennessee. And everyone talks about what the portal has done to ravage the top end of G5 player rosters. It's about to happen with coaching rosters as well. And so for all the time, that's why I keep talking about this two-year trial period for this playoff and the auto bid for the G5. everyone throws out the sentcy example or the UCF example. Well, first off, those teams are in the power leagues now.

So those don't exist anymore. Secondly, the romanticism about like what Boise once was. Joel, I don't know that that caliber program will ever be allowed to grow and exist at the G5 level again. So in a way, we were never closer to G5 and Power 5 parity than we were. We are drifting further away from it. And now you're about to have like a chain tied to it. someone's going to gas the pickup truck. Because when the coaches start leaving as quickly as the players do,

what does G5 even look like? Those are great points. And that's why they should have their own national champion at that level. Amen. End it on that. End it on that. Oh, so you would agree with that. I wholeheartedly agree.

It's so farcical that we've ever pretended that 130 plus teams are playing the same sport. It's absolutely insane. Yes. That is a good way to end it. The last thing that I would ask you, I've talked about this being just like the golden age of the sport. It's never been better. What are you most excited about for this season?

Man, I'm excited. Oh, boy. I'm excited about the first iteration of the playoff. Because no matter what you feel about it, you cannot mistake that people haven't trained their minds on how to perceive this yet. So it really will, at least for one year or for two years, it will feel like everything's in play in November. Because if you've got a shot at the playoff,

you've got a shot at the national championship. Everyone's mind is clean. Like the etch of sketch hasn't even been drawn on yet. So you won't know how to think about the 12-team playoffs. So at least for one, go-round, the merry-go-round, we get a full-out chaotic November. It's guaranteed. It's guaranteed to be chaotic.

There's no way around it. And so I don't have to hear the phrase meaningless regular season game, which never should have existed. I probably still got to deal with meaningless bowl game, which also shouldn't have existed but does. But that November, that November will be one for the ages. I would agree. I think that the number of teams that are in it

and fan bases that are engaged at the top end, not just engaged because it's college football and we love it, and we're going to go to the game and tailgate, and it's great. I'm talking about engaged for the meaning of the winner loss in November, the number of teams. And then the other thing I'm most of, excited about home playoff games.

Yeah. Oh, dude. I'm in on that. The people that have buys and have earned that, they should absolutely have home play off games. We have to stupidly put them in neutral sites and play bowl games. It's like Netflix carrying what Blockbuster was doing business-wise when they formed their business. It's just totally dumb. But whatever, that's for a different show. Josh, I really appreciate you coming on. I kept you for a long time. Go follow Josh. Late Kick. Josh on Twitter. His show, Josh Pate's college football show is really awesome. I like consuming it. You guys should consume all the college football content that you possibly can. Definitely do that. I appreciate your time, man. Thank you.

Hey, hey, just a hot rumor here. I just got it across my desk. I may be up in Wisconsin week three. So save at least one seat for me there. It's sold out. I don't know what to tell you. Again, I'll talk to the fire marshal. I'll do what I can. But we'll try to save you. We'll try to save you a seat. I appreciate it. And yeah, you can absolutely come to the show. That'd be awesome. Appreciate it, brother. You got it. There he goes. Josh Pate. Thank you for listening to the program, everybody. It has been a really fun episode. I love just chopping it up about this sport that we all love. Remember to follow us on YouTube. Throw down a comment below about our conversation. I'll jump down there and try to have some dialogue with you in those comments.

And then rate review us wherever you listen to your podcasts. Thanks so much, everybody. We'll be back. Wednesday with another episode, Thursday with a preview for week one of college football. It's finally here.