The Joel Klatt Show: A College Football Podcast - Kurt Warner on this QB Draft Class and the differences between the College Game & NFL

Episode Date: March 10, 2025

FOX Sports’ lead College Football analyst Joel Klatt welcomes in Hall of Famer and NFL Network Analyst Kurt Warner to the show! The two discuss the top Quarterbacks in this year’s NFL Draft and Kurt reveals who he has as his #1 QB in this year’s class. He also breaks down why playing quarterback in the college game is so different than the NFL and the challenges that presents for Draft day and beyond. They discuss some of their favorite QBs in the league from Joe Burrow to Jayden Daniels and what makes them so special. Klatt wraps the show with his thoughts on the last Head Coaching hire of the CFB offseason after Heisman Trophy-winner Eddie George was hired by Bowling Green. 0:00-1:52 Intro 1:53-3:31 Kurt Warner joins the show! 3:32-5:22 Evaluating top QBs in NFL Draft 5:23-7:09 Has Cam Ward separated himself as the clear No. 1 QB in the draft? 7:10-10:00 Evaluating the top QBs in the NFL Draft 10:01-14:24 Best landing spots for QBs in the NFL Draft 14:25-19:03 How high should Shedeur Sanders go in April’s Draft? 19:04-32:01 important traits for young QBs to have in the NFL to be successful 32:03-43:04 Football play breakdown with Joel and Kurt 43:05-48:47 Taking stock of where QB play is in the NFL today 48:48-56:58 Advice for QBs entering the NFL 56:59-58:49 Eddie George named head coach at Bowling Green Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When I break down quarterbacks, I try to eliminate what's happened all year long. I look at everything play to play. I felt in the last four games that Choudoir was very uneasy in the pocket. College football has never been better. Interest has never been higher. Believe that we are at the dawn of the golden age of college football. It was an epic day of college football. It was one of those days where you fall in love with the sport all over again.

Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome into the Joel Clashio. I am Joel. Clad, this show, as always, is brought to you by Hampton by Hilton, and we thank them for their support. Hey, wherever you're listening to this show, go ahead and rate and review us. But as always, I'm going to encourage you to get over to YouTube and subscribe to the YouTube channel. We've got obviously YouTube exclusives up there with understanding football. More of that will be coming up throughout the spring and into the summer and next fall. And so you're going to want to get there.

Hit the notification button, leave a comment, do all those things. And then if you want to follow us on social media, you can do that. at wherever you like to social media. We're there at Joel Klatt show is where you can find us. You can find me on X. Personally, I'm there at Joel Klatt. Okay, big show, and I'm really excited because this is going to be, you know, this is basically like an understanding football episode,

but we're going to do it as an episode of the show because we're going to bring on Kurt Warner and we're going to chat with him about some of these guys in the drafts from the quarterback position and then really more just football in general and the quarterback position in general, because he and I work together on NFL network for the draft. I'll be there night one and night two on the NFL network. He always is there for the first round. And I love having conversations with Kurt Warner about the sport. So we're going to do that right here for you.

So let's jump into it with the Hall of Famer. So I'm really thrilled to be joined now by a guy that I'm like, pinch me when I get to say he's a colleague, at least for one event during the course of the year. The Hall of Famer, Kurt Warner, joins the Joel Class. So, Kurt, thank you, man, for joining us. I tell you what, like I said, it's one of those pinch me moments when we get to work together. And even for a brief moment, we get to sit and just talk about football.

It's one of my favorite times of year, man. Well, I'm happy to be on. I always love talking to you. And I'm with you. I can't find enough people that just want to talk ball and want to talk quarterbacks and get into the weeds with things. And so that's kind of the beautiful thing when we get, you know, our few days together and which we can kind of dive. into the weeds of what football play or what quarterback plays is all about. So I look forward to doing, look forward to doing it again here in a month and a half or so, but happy to be on.

Here's one of the things I love chatting with you about is that we come, like, we come from very different backgrounds offensively and philosophically. So a lot of times, like, you're explaining things to me very differently than I see them, which I really love, because I I think too often nowadays guys just get into a conversation and agree with each other all the time. And we don't always do that, which is awesome. So let me just start with this. You saw all the guys at the Combine, and as you prepare for the draft, let's just start with like, how do you stack up this class in general?

And what were your overall feelings of the class after Indy? Yeah, I tell you what, I thought at Indy, I thought, the class was solid across the board. You know, when I think back to Indy, I kind of think that a lot of times it kind of goes up and down. And you got some guys that are pretty good and then the guys that aren't very good. And I thought this class as a whole, I thought we had a number of guys that threw the ball well at the combine. And I don't do a lot of tape study before the combine. I'd maybe do a little bit just to get, you know, just a touch of who these guys are. As you know, I don't watch a lot of college football during the NFL season.

I'm an NFL guy first and foremost. And so I like to go to the combine and get a chance to see the guys. And then I'll pop on the tape afterwards, which I've been doing for the last week or so. But I thought the class at the combine, I thought they threw the ball really well. I thought there was a number of guys that threw the ball really well. So then I go and pop on the tape. And when I look at this class, I think you have Cam Ward.

And, you know, here's the interesting thing for me, Joel. is when I watch them on tape, I'm not sure any of these guys are that different from a processing, playing on time, reading the field type perspective. I feel like, you know, a majority of these guys, at least the top of the class, what I'm talking about, are very similar guys when I watch them on tape.

You know, if you just took the names off the jerseys or whatever and you look, you go, okay, I've seen that before. I've seen that before. Now, Cam, I think, gives you a little of that kind of, okay, he's got a little extra. He's got a little uniqueness to his ability to throw the football. And I think that's what catapults him to the top of the class. I don't think it's, you know, when you watch him play compared to, you know, these other guys, Shadir or Jackson or, you know, Tyler or whoever we're talking about.

I don't think when you watch them in like decision-making and throwing on time and all the, I don't think Cam jumps off the page is, oh, gosh, he's so much better in all these areas. I just think he's got a little uniqueness to the way he throws the football, maybe a little more muscle on the ball, you know, has the ability to throw off platform. So I think you put him at the top just because the kind of, what if, you know, what if that, you know, that talent transfers to the next level, do we have something special? Beyond that, I really feel like when, you know, the teams have to break this down to decide who they want to draft for these quarterbacks. I think you're really going to say,

well, they're all very similar. Is there something that one guy does a little bit better than another guy that's going to make us draft him over one of these other guys that's in the top five, six, seven of this mix? And that's kind of what I saw is that I just kind of saw. And I even said, I tweeted it the other day. I think it's a pretty solid class just in terms of if you look at all these guys in the way they played college football. We got a lot of guys that played really good college football. And a lot of it. I do not. A lot of college football. Oh yeah, a lot of college football. And I think they all played really, really well. Now, I don't know if any of these guys is going to be special with it. I don't think there's one of these guys that I look at and go, okay, this guy's a

lock or this guy, you know, no question this guy is going to be a starter in the national football league or a really good starter in the national football league. I don't know if I can really say that, I've got to see, I've got to see more. So I think it's, I think it's fascinating. I'm with you on just like, Cam is probably the most impressive quarterback, you know, in terms of like the way the ball comes out, his willingness to make throws into tight windows in certain areas of the field. At times, and I texted you this at someone, he plays a bit like a gunslinger at times. Like he'll, he'll let it rip, which you kind of love. And so Kurt and I have, one degree of Kevin Bacon.

We both got to play. You did it at an ridiculously Hall of Fame level. I did it for one preseason, but we both played under Mike Marks. And it's so funny because when I watch Cam, I think of a guy like Mike Marks. And I'm like, man, I think Mike would really like a guy like Cam because he's got a fairly quick release

and he's willing to just let the ball go in anticipation, down the field. And, you know, you remember the big four. Of course you remember, the big four route. You know, the route to build my house, baby. That's right. And you were as good as anybody at trusting that throw. So let's, let's go inside football for a moment. Mike Martz ran the digit system. So, you know, it would be like, yeah, oh gosh, 095F post was like a concept that that we would run and things. And you, I'm sure, would have others. But the four route was this big, four route and he would tell you to race through your seventh step, you know, rip it into the turf, one hitch and let it go just inside of the numbers, regardless of what you're seeing.

And just like, let it go. And it comes out and then you're like, I'm not sure it was regardless of what you were seeing. Well, it was if you felt you could make the throw. That's right. I felt like I could make most of those throws. But I still did see something. And then all of a sudden, the wide receiver would just like break across the field and it would be

right there. And here's the, here's the best part. Just a quick funny story. It was the first year. I was in Detroit with the Lions. John Kittano had just been signed to be the quarterback. Rod Marinelli was going to be the head coach. And Mike was going to be the offensive coordinator.

What was so funny is that he would show us in preseason your film from like the greatest show on turf. And he would try to make it seem like, guys, like, just do it like this. And we're like, that's like the greatest offense in history of. football. These guys can't do that. Okay, so I say all of that long kind of story to make the point of fit, right? And where you go matters. The type of player that you are, your makeup, the way you see the field and the way the coach coaches your decision making, I think is really important. I don't know. We haven't had that discussion. But when you take a look at a guy like Cam, what type of offense do you see him thriving in at the next level?

You know, that's a great question because what I really believe about all of these guys is, you know, even Kim, which, you know, he's got a little something to his arm. But I'm not sure any of these guys is a good enough athlete to survive at the NFL level being an athletic quarterback, if that makes sense. you know that the Josh Allen's, Lamar Jackson's, the Patrick Mahomes. I think most of these guys, if they're going to be really good at the next level, it's got to come down to processing. It's got to come down to seeing and getting the ball out of their hands, because I don't think any of them are great at buying time or being elusive, you know, from there. And so that's the thing that kind of fascinates me because we never really know,

especially when you watch guys in college, like, you know, really frustrates me to watch college tape because, you know, when I was watching Cam, what I said was, you know, 90% of his, you know, throws went to his first guy or it was a scramble. Like, you know, there wasn't a whole lot else that you would see. You wouldn't see him go boom, boom, boom, boom, and work through things. And, you know, and I think that was the case with a number of these guys that they, you know, I don't want to say struggled because I don't even know how much they were trying to do it. But there's so many quick, you know, first guys open. and throw it to them. Okay. And most guys should be able to make those throws. But I didn't see

the processing and working through things. And that's where this is so hard for me, because I don't know who these guys are from that standpoint. And if you struggle to do that at the NFL level, I'm not sure any of these guys have that extra that says, oh, I can overcome that and, you know, do it with my right arm. And again, Cam is that one where you say, you know, he can make some of those throws and he can, you know, be under pressure and make some, so, so maybe, but that's what's really hard for me, Joel, and I don't know if you get a better sense of it when you watch college tape, but I just, I don't know what they're doing half the time and what these college offenses and it's so much bubble screens and it's so much, you know, find the one-on-one and take it

that it's really hard for me to assess because I don't get a chance to sit in a room with them. I don't get a chance to get up on a board with them and understand what they're processing thing is like, even if it's on a board. But that's what I see from this class is I just don't see anybody being the athlete that can survive being more athletic at the NFL level as opposed to being more quarterbacky, more in the pocket type player at the next level. So I think all of them are going to need good solid offenses and have the ability to work quickly through their progressions. And I don't have a great sense of that with what I watched most of the. of them doing in college. I want to come back to that because you touched on two things that I want

to touch on there. I want to come back to that idea of the college offense and the preparation toward the NFL game. So we'll get to that in a moment. But first, I want to bring up the consensus and a guy that I'm high on, and not just because you went to Colorado, but because of the processing, I thought when I evaluated these guys, and even when I covered a lot of, them in person. I thought Shadur was the best processor of all of them on the field. And the reason is, is, one, I know that, I mean, that's a Shermer NFL offense. And so I know that there's not as many ratio or leverage throws. And we can define those later. But those are the ones that are just totally pre-snap like you're talking about. The ball's going to come out there. And there's

very little processing that has to take place with that. So Shador's doing a lot of downfirm. field reads and then he's playing behind a really poor offensive line sack 94 times over the last two years that's the most by a quarterback in the last 10 years you know so he he was constantly under duress and trying to read things out down the field now when it comes to shudor i'm with you on the things that cam does that that i don't think shudor does from just a talent and arm specific talent type of mindset. What I like about Shador is that I do see him process. And so at times when he's got time, I like to see, and I do see kind of this surgical

aspect of his game. He's hyper accurate. The ball is on time and he's reading things out. And then while he's not a great athlete, he's got this really rare ability to stay alive in the pocket, not even evade and elude and make plays with his. legs per se. It's almost like a Tarkington slash Rothless Burger kind of keep yourself alive to make a throw type of deal. So it's like surgeon and magician type of combination. Now, is that going to translate into a great NFL career? I'm not sure. I really am not. But that's what I saw when I saw

Shudor. I'd be really fascinated to hear your take on Shudor. Yeah. And, you know, another thing that I always have to tell people when I do this stuff, I'm not a draft guy. And so I don't go back in watch every single snap that all of these guys have. To me, it's getting a sense of who they were in college, getting a sense of what they do well, and then I'll let somebody else project where they go or what they're going to be at the NFL level, because I just think it's such an inexact science that I'm not trying to get into that world. So, you know, I will agree with you that, I mean, should do her may throw the best ball. And what I mean by that is the most catchable, the most accurate ball of all of these guys.

I love that he can paste the ball, but he never, you know, whether it's because of arm strength or whatever, he never throws it hard. He never has to throw it through you. And so I love that aspect of things. I like guys that understand how to make different throws. He's got great touch.

I think he throws a really good deep ball, all of those things. You know, so I said that all about not watching every snap. So I went back and, you know, watch some at the beginning of the year, but I watched the last four games for all of these, quarterbacks. And you know, you mentioned the offensive line. And so when I break down quarterbacks, I try to eliminate what's happened all year long. Now, I try to eliminate what's

happened in the game. And I look at everything play to play. Like, I don't care what's happened up to this point. I'm going to get into a vacuum and I'm going to look at this play. Did you do the right thing on this play? You know, did you make the right throw? Did you make the right read as opposed to trying to stack it all together. But with that being said, I felt in the last four games that Shadour was very uneasy in the pocket. Like very seldom did I see him strong in the pocket and get back and set and read and deliver the, it was almost like he was always uneasy back there. Now, you know, you talked about the sacks and you talked about, you know, the issues that they had up front. And maybe that all led into, okay, these last four games, I'm just, I'm just uneasy because I've gotten

hit so much. But that was the thing that concerned me is that I felt like, you know, he very seldom went through the process. It was kind of back. See the first guy and then get on easy and try to create a throw as opposed to just playing the game. And so that's a concern for me. But, you know, is that something that, oh, it was only because of the situation here, only because the offensive line. And he can be more solid in the pocket. And he can work through things and not get impatient in the pocket. So that was my concern when I watched him, like the throws. As you said, I liked some of the different throws and concepts that he had to play through

because that's always exciting to me because, you know, I'd go back a year. And when I watched Bow Nix last year, you know, I think we all had some questions, you know, throwing the ball down the field because they didn't do it that much at Oregon. But what I loved is that I thought he had the most extent. playbook of anybody in college football last year. They asked him to read a lot of different concepts and go through things and see the field. And I thought he did that extremely well and why I felt like he could really translate to the NFL level because he was doing those things. I feel like Colorado, as you said, Coach Schumer does some of that. And so Chauduor had to,

you know, to run some more pro-style offense there. And so I like that part of it, too, that you've been exposed to that. You've played within it. You've had a lot of success in it. I just want to see him, again, more solid in the pocket and the ability to process quickly so he doesn't have to get uneasy after first look and go create a throw to stay in there, see it, understand it, and get the ball out a little bit more on time than I saw.

So now let's go back to that thing that I wanted to touch on. I'm just writing it down. You continue to say, and I've said this term as well, process, right? And we're talking about processing information post-snap. You know, and that's, that is, that's where the rubber meets the road at the next level, you know, right? I mean, that's what you have to do. Can you give me a sense of what you see on college tape that makes you frustrated from a processing standpoint and then an example?

and then an example of the challenge that these guys will face or an example of processing at the NFL level that you don't see on some of that college tape. Yeah, okay. So the first thing that I see is college teams run the same plays over and over and over again. Like that is something that you won't have at the NFL level. You will have to run different concepts. You will have to play the game.

differently from that perspective. But, you know, you know, some of these college teams are just better than the teams they play, you know, nine out of 12 games. So we can just run the same plays over and over. And our guy's better than your guy. And so we're going to run it. Okay. You know, I mean, I get it. And it's fine, you know, because they can be a good, that can be a good play.

And you can have success with it. But it frustrates me because I want to see guys have to understand a lot of different things because you're going to have to do a lot of different things at the NFL level. So that's the first one, you know, because some of these guys, it's like, you know, throwing the same thing in their sleep because they get off coverage every time because their wide receiver is so good. And it's just like, okay, let me throw this 12 times a game. And it's like, I don't know what that tells me. I don't know what that shows me as a guy. I know you're going to continue. Let me just jump in.

It's not even that they run the same concept over and over again, but the ball goes to the same place in those concepts over and over and over again because the defense doesn't adjust. And they, you know, let's exactly. Yeah, so yeah, they're not having a process and go through anything, no question. And then the second thing to me, if you follow me at all, you know, I hate pure progression football. And for those that may not know, I don't know how much you talk about it on here, Joel, but pure progression football is a coach designing a play where the progression is always the same. Yes. This guy's always number one.

This guy's always number three, four and five. And it doesn't matter what the coverage is. It doesn't matter what you see. You can go out there and be blind and just look at your guy. And that's what you have to do. And so I hate that brand of football. Yeah. Because I've talked about this a lot.

And I'm with you on this. I'm 100% with you on this. I think it really, really hurts quarterbacks because, you know, it's just a lot of times when you're running pure progression as well, nothing ties together. And so a quarterback never really knows how to tie their feet to the different throws. And I know, coaches do their best to go, okay, this is a two-step, and then you get one

hitch, and then you get, that's just not how it works. That's not how real life works, is that you can't do that because there's a perfect timing to all of these different throws. And it's really hard for a quarterback to be on time to everything, because we're giving them, we're telling them to start. on a three-step drop, and then you finish on a five-step drop, and then a seven, and it's just like, no, you got, I shouldn't say that's wrong.

We start on a three-step, then we go to a seven, and then we come back to a five, and it's like, hold on, how does that work if I have to wait for this one to be a seven-step timing, but I have to get to the next one with a five-step timing. And so I think it really, really hurts quarterbacks, because it forces them to, you know, to play too fast a lot of the time, or to force throws into guys a lot of times because one throw or one reet isn't connected to the next read. It's not based off of if this linebacker covers this one, then the next one's going to be open.

That makes sense to me. Now I can tie those throws together, but they don't get the opportunity to tie it together. So when I watch film, it's so often I see, you know, quarterbacks rushing through routes. And, you know, because I know that their mindset is I can't miss the next one. I got to make sure I'm there, but they missed the one that's right out in front of them. And so that's the next thing is that I don't like that brand of football because we're usually running five guys to five different zones. We're never putting somebody in conflict. And so, you know, these guys are trying to figure it out.

And then the last point with that kind of offense is that we're not teaching them to see the things that they have to see for the next level. to understand why this concept is good or bad against a particular look. And what is the look that I'm, you know, that I want or that I don't want? You know, we're just throwing it out there and going, okay, just read through it. And go and so it really frustrates me because I don't think a lot of these guys are learning how to play the quarterback position. And again, those that are following at home, you know, if I've got one and two and then three, okay, and a coach is designing a play where three doesn't, you know, doesn't actually get into his route, doesn't even run his route until I've figured out the timing for one and two, okay? So I can't speed up my process.

Like if I know one and two aren't open. Can you give an example? Can you give in it like, like call a concept from your past and give me an example of like, okay, this look I'm using this timing, that look I'm using, you know, B timing. Okay. Okay. Let me start with the pure progression. and then we'll go there. Okay, so just envision, okay, we've got to play that off to the right,

I've got a deep corner route and I've got an out route. Okay, and then, so that's, for me, pre-progression, they usually go short to long. I would go long to short, but I would go deep corner to the out, you know, and read that area. And then let's say number three is running what we call a return. So they're pushing up, they're breaking out for about five yards, and then they're returning back to the inside.

And so if I get a coverage where I know both the corner and the out are covered because of the look that I've got over there, a deep corner sitting on the outside, an outside linebacker sitting outside of the out. So I know those two concepts are dead from the start. The problem with pure progression a lot of times is I can't get to the return any faster. Like the return is running a return. And so I can't throw it to him until he goes up and then. goes out and then returns. And so I never get the chance to process faster or to play faster. For me, in, you know, kind of what, you know, we're talking about in the offenses that I was in, I would want two guys to be able to read two guys at one time. Okay. So for instance, if I have that

out in the corner on the one side, I'm only going to read that if I get cover two. So I know that there's a corner over there. And I'm going to be reading both one and two at the exact same time. I'm not reading one first and then going to two and then going to three. I'm reading those two guys. If I want to eliminate those two guys right off the bat, I can get to three and it really becomes my one. And now I'm playing the game way faster than these guys that are forced to go through this process. And so, okay, let's use your example. We were talking about the big in earlier. Okay. So what we might do is let's say we put a skinny post on the backside. Okay. So, you know, it's a four-step skinny post, which would be a five

plant and throw for me on the backside. And then we've got the big end on the front side, which is a seven-step quick hitch, as you talked about earlier. So for me, as I come back, okay, I know to myself, I'm going to read the big-in concept, some kind of high, low concept, big in, something underneath it to the right-hand side. But I'm also alerting on the back side. if I've got a safety back there and he rolls to the middle of the field, I'm going to hit my back foot and I'm going to stick that skinny post on the backside. But that's what I go up to myself saying is that I know what coverage I'm going to attack the big end. And then I know what my alert is over here.

And so I'm keying that right off the bat. And if I see that, I can change my footwork. I can hit that on time or I can finish on a seven step drop and throw it back to the big end. So that's, you know, one example of what we're talking about, you know, in where we might go with something. You mentioned 095 F post. F post was one of my favorite plays. Yeah, Marshall folk, baby. Oh, yeah.

So people that, again, I'm going to try to give you a visual the best I can. So three wide receivers to the right hand side, inside wide receiver or inside guy is going to run what we call it influence shallow, going to attack the Mike Linebacker and run a shallow. number two is going to run the F post. So it's kind of like a quick slant. And then the guy on the outside, I'm going to have him run a comeback on the outside. And then on the backside, I got one receiver. He's running a comeback also and my back swinging to the backside.

Okay. So when I come out, what I'm doing is I'm starting with the Mike linebacker. If the Mike linebacker pushes to the post to the right, I'm popping my feet all the way backside to the comeback. And then I'm reading comeback down to swing, shallow. based off of what the defense does. If the Mike linebacker chases, okay, chases the shallow, so steps in with the shallow, now I'm thinking post or the quick post. If the Sam linebacker stays tucked inside of him, boom, I'm right out to the comeback outside of him. If he pushes through,

then I'm hitting my quick post. So that's an idea of what I'm talking about with Defender Reads. Reading the Mike Linebacker, whichever way he goes, takes me to my second read. It could be out to the right, could be back to the left. And that's the thing to me that, you know, a lot of college quarterbacks aren't doing. They're not seeing that. They're not understanding the process or what, you know, what gives me this over here versus when am I going over to that side?

It's just, hey, come out. You know, this guy's one, this guy's two, this guy's three. And then the next part, and again, we can go on this all day because I'm animate that I don't like it. But, you know, what you will see sometimes is you'll see a, quarterback have to read like a quick flat. So their footwork says set real quick to read the quick flat. But then all of a sudden the next read, you know, it happens way later than that. So the quarterback's set to throw and he's like, I should be throwing because I'm set. And then the next route isn't ready to catch the football. He's not in the right place. And so now these guys are

getting impatient and we talk about guys taking off and moving and running because as a quarterback, you know as well as I do. Once you set your feet, your brain says throw it. Yes. Like, why are your feet set if you're not throwing? Why are you just standing there if you're not going to get rid of the ball? So these guys are so far ahead of the game that they panic and they take off. And so you see a lot of these guys, what I'm talking about, like Shadour, like he sees one guy and then he gets impatient. Or these guys, they look at one and then by the time they get the two, two is nowhere close to being ready. And so they panic and they take off.

And it's all these bad habits that lead to, you know, when you get to the next level, you just can't do it. And especially if you're this class, in my opinion, that aren't great athletes. If you're going to see one and then start to take off and move and you're not a great athlete, you're not going to survive at the next level. And, I mean, I'll go back to just last year. Like, here's what I saw. Caleb Williams was an unbelievable college player and an unbelievable college athlete.

When I watched him in college, I said to myself, as good as he was in college as an athlete, I don't think he's a good enough athlete to survive that way in the NFL. I don't think he's quick enough or explosive enough. It doesn't mean he's not going to make some plays because he's got some special in it. But I don't think he's good enough and athletic enough to live in that world in the NFL. And this is the guy that was great at it in college. And so just being that athletic quarterback that can really survive in that. world, I think is very rare at the NFL level.

And so you better be able to do these things that we're talking about. And especially, that's what I'm talking about with this class, these guys are going to have to be able to do that stuff. And that's what to me is going to prove whether one of these guys or a couple of these guys can be special at the NFL level or if they're just going to be guys. That was excellent, dude, like honestly, especially without like a video breakdown that we can just sit here and watch film. And I do follow you and we get to talk. So we've talked about this. But that, that was an excellent. And to me, like in the West Coast system, did you run any

West Coast? You know, I was in it in Green Bay when I was there in training camp. Wasn't a fan. It didn't make sense in my brain. But then we, you know, I mean, everybody ran the drive concepts and some of those things that were stolen from the West Coast. I ran some of that. And, you know, to your, I don't know if you're going here, but yeah, a lot of that stuff is what I would call pure progression. Like the drive concept, shallow, dig, checkdown. Like those are pure progression concepts that I wasn't a fan of,

even though I had some success in them. So I ran some elements of the West Coast, but never a full West Coast. So what I think, because I cut my teeth in the West Coast, So that's why Mike's offense was hard for me because I didn't see the game that way. I saw, you know, West Coast is all concepts, whereas Mike would throw different numbers together. And to your point, like, you're incredibly intelligent. You knew how to piece those numbers together.

And it wasn't necessarily a concept to you, but a picture. Whereas West Coast, yes, it's a picture, but it's really a concept. And that concept is the concept is the concept, right? Well, let me expand on that when you say that. So the way I hear that when you say it is Mike built two concepts. Yes. On every play. Yes.

The West Coast had one concept on every play. Like that's how I would termin it. With like alerts attached. Everything was connected together. Kind of like the pure progression. Whereas in Mike's offense and the way I see the game is give me a concept over here that's good against something. And then whatever that's not good against, give me something on the other side that is good against, you know, that coverage.

So now, you know, I almost see the game as kind of splitting the field in half. And here's my concept to the right side. And here's my concept to the left side. And it was all determined based off of what I saw defensive. Yeah. And which is, which is very cool. And one of the things that I think that, and you touched on it a little bit is, is you talked about reading two players at once. And the way I say that is what I think college quarterbacks

don't get taught a lot. Some, some do, but how to differentiate between how am I reading this out versus man and how am I reading this out versus zone? And in zone, you better bracket a defender and have a zone movement key like you're talking about. You've got the corner and you've got the out. So you can have a movement key. The corner, you can make one read for both routes is, you know, the way that I heard you kind of talking about that. And again, if you just talk about a progression, you can't do that because then eyes are going in different spots and then the footwork is wrong. And like you said, what you end up having is guys rushing to the, you know, second and third and fourth and they can never get there in

the proper timing and the windows are all wrong. And let's say this too, Joel. Let's not just put this on the quarterbacks. No, no. When I say this is the way that they're coached. But I think it's more about the coaches, you know, and that's why I think it's a disservice to the quarterbacks because we're going to assess the quarterbacks based on this.

But I look at it and, you know, like when I was, you know, coaching, just coaching at the high school level. But anytime I get a play, I'm always. asking myself, what am I asking my quarterback to do? Where am I giving him a win in this concept? Like, how can I get him, you know, to the right guy as quickly as possible? So he knows, oh, if the corner falls deep, you got the underneath one. If the corner comes up, you've got the, like, where I can give him a definitive read based on the movement of the defense as quick as possible. And so why I'm saying that is because we're going to assess these quarterbacks on

what they can and cannot do. And I believe a lot of this falls back to the coaches, you know, being able to design plays that allow them to have that quick read, to be definitive, to know, as you were saying, to read two guys at one time. Basically one and two, both become one to me. It's either I'm throwing to the high or I'm throwing to the low, but they're both thrown on the same timing based off of my read. And so I agree with you.

I don't think a lot of these guys are getting coached. in that. Yet, they're going to be asked to do that. And the NFL is becoming more pure progression than it's ever been. And so I say they're going to be asked to do that. You just have to. You just have to play the game faster at the NFL level than I believe, you know, a lot of this pure progression stuff lends itself to. And ultimately, I think it hurts the quarterback if you don't teach them what they need to see and how these concepts connect to the defense they're seeing. I and and I will because that can come off someone's probably going to listen to be like oh wow like Joel and Kurt are really crushing the coaches and I will say this I will say this the college game doesn't help the coaches at all and I'm not talking about just the the schematics of the game I'm also talking about all the crap that they have to deal with in terms of 20 hour rule for meetings like they don't get enough time to meet and be on the field with these kids to teach them these things, which are nuanced things.

These are tough, by the way. Like, this is, it is incredibly difficult to do what you're talking about, at least in my estimation. And, you know, the coaches are having to deal with NIL and transfer portal on our calendar is all messed up. And then they get to the season and they try to make it as easy as possible. So I'll give them a little bit of an out. I wish that they would do better in a large sense. But the game is certainly not built for them to succeed in terms of the depths of, of,

of schematics. Now, but I will, again, I don't like to give coaches a pass because I do believe it's their responsibility. It is. You're right. And so there's no question that it's nuanced. But, you know, one time I'm going to come on your show and I'm going to take you through my story of every play, my who, what, win, where and why of every play. And how connecting things together doesn't have to be as complicated as we all. often make it. You know, that certain keys can take us from one place to another to help simplify this for the quarterback. Do you want to do it now? I mean, do you really want to do it now? Like, this could take some time. I feel like, I feel like you just teased it. I feel like you just

teased it. All right. Let's get through what you want to get through on on this. And then we'll see where we're at timing wise. And if you want to dive into it, I would, I would love to take it through it. I hear you and I hear Tom says this. Tom Brady has said this. You guys have both talked about the quality of quarterback play writ large in the NFL and how you feel like, and maybe even the quality of play overall in the NFL and how you feel like it's decreased. Is that fair? Yeah. Yeah.

I would say it's fair to it. agree. You know, I mean, the one thing that you always have to realize is that Tom and I played the game a certain way. So we're always going to see the game through our lens more than other people. And so through our lens of guys that weren't the most athletic that had to play with their minds, both before and after the snap, had to process quickly, had to know what we were looking at and get the ball out. Yes, I think the NFL has, as, you know, is greatly decreased from that perspective. And I think a big reason is because of what we're talking about is that we've got greater athletes than ever playing the quarterback position. So younger and younger, we're putting the

ball in the hands of our best player. Like, I don't know about you. When I grew up, I was a good athlete, but the reason I went to quarterback was because my running back was a better athlete. And my wide receiver was a better athlete. So you might be a good athlete, but you're not the best athlete. So we're not going to put the ball in your hands and let you run. We're going to let you throw it to the guys that are really good at it. Yes. And now, you know, the transition has been, why would I not want my greatest athlete

to have the ball in his hands at all times? But in that process, these guys, and you know it, these guys are greater athletes than we've ever seen. And so these guys get further and further and further in their careers by not having to learn the stuff we're talking about because they can still survive on being, you know, the best athlete. And most guys, okay, maybe you're the best athlete on your team in high school, but by the time you get to college, no longer, now you've got to learn to play.

I mean, we've got guys like Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen and Kyler. Like, they're the best athletes on the field at the NFL level. But the problem is when you can rely on that over and over and over again, you never learn the nuance that we're talking about. And so now it comes down to when you get to the NFL, can you still survive being an athlete at the NFL level? And again, that's not saying, you know, Josh and Lamar can't play quarterback. And that's why I think they're great in their MVP's because they're still great athletes.

And they can still survive in that world. But they're also great in the other part of it. If you have to simply survive by being an athlete in the NFL, we don't have very many of those guys. And I don't think there's very many of those guys on the planet that can do that. So the further these guys get by just being an athlete or depending more on their athletes, the less they learn the nuance we're talking about. So when they get to the higher levels, all of a sudden that stuff is starting to disappear.

And that's where the watered down, you know, drop back in the pocket quarterback, you know, where it's gotten watered down in the NFL in my opinion. And that's why this class without that guy that is elite with the ball in his hands, like they're going to have to be great at the things that we're talking about here and that you're breaking down in terms of the processing side of the. thinks. Is there a young guy in the NFL that you think is really good from a processing standpoint, almost a throwback in terms of playing with his mind and the way that he plays? Do you see that? I mean, when you say young, I'm not sure exactly what you mean. But the first guy that jumps to

mind when you say that is Joe Burrell. You know, Joe sees it, gets it out, understands where his conflict is, you know, gets through things. I mean, there's times he gets to his checkdown so fast. But I know. He's looking at the outside linebacker and the outside linebacker buzzed underneath the out and he drops it through his back right underneath it. And so he's seeing this stuff and playing the game, you know, faster than other guys from a mental standpoint. You know, so he doesn't have to rely on the physical as much. And so that's kind of the guy. I thought C.J. Stroud did an excellent job with that in his rookie year. For whatever reason, he didn't play very well this past year and didn't see it very well this last year.

But in his rookie year, he did. I mean, I was blown away by things I didn't really see at Ohio State that he was doing at Houston. And I'm just like, wow, I mean, this guy's getting through it. He's accurate. Balls out on time. Like, it was really impressive. So there are some guys that can do this. And I've seen him do it at the high level.

But, yes, I don't think there are a lot of those guys, especially when we're talking about young guys. But, I mean, I'll even say, like Drake May last year, I didn't know if he could do this. You know, coming in, he was lower to process, I thought, in college. He had some of the, you know, the deficiencies technique-wise. I thought he was excellent last year when he got in and played. And he played on time. And he saw it. And he got through his, like, I thought he did a great job.

And so, again, I think there were a number of rookies did a good job last year. But he's a young guy. When you talk about young guys that really impressed me with seeing it and getting it out on time last year, you know, in a way that I, that I wasn't sure he was capable of, you know, coming out of college. Yeah, I, the guy that surprised me was Jaden Daniels, you know, because I didn't, I mean, he played so, I mean, he played so well. And you knew, I knew that the physical gifts were there, because you saw that show up at LSU in particular, you're and you're like, yeah, I mean, this guy is the fastest guy in the field at times. But I was, I was like you,

I was like, well, is that going to translate? You know what I mean? The NFL is so fast. Is that going to translate? And while at times it did, he did not, I would say, like, fall back and use that all the time. Like he processed. Ball was out.

He was accurate. I thought he was excellent for a young guy. He was, he was awesome. And the thing was is that I thought he was awesome at LSU too. Like the thing about Jane Daniels is the same guy we saw at LSU we saw in the NFL. Like very rarely does that happen where you see a guy that's as good at the NFL, you know, in that first year as he was in college. Yeah. Now, it was a little more simplified of an offensive. They ran the same thing over and over again. So again, I wondered how that would translate. But I think you're 100% right. The way he saw the game, you know, having pressure plans, you know, getting the ball out on time, you know, learning. I remember I called the game where they played against Cincinnati on Monday night this. year and, you know, played an excellent game. It was back and forth with him and Joe Burrow.

But there was a point in the game where it was a critical point. And of course, Cincinnati brought an all-out blitz. And first time he saw it, he rushed it and he missed an opportunity to make the throw. And then, of course, the most critical moment in the game, the last throw of the game, okay, of course, you know, they're going to come after him and bring the all-out blitz again. and for him to stand in there and take the hit and deliver a go route down the sideline for a touchdown. Like it was those kinds of things that to me is like, wow, like, you know, pressure, having a pressure plan as a young guy, here's another one. Because I always try to teach this, but here's what I've learned is that there's some guys that can do certain things that I did and

other guys that struggle with it. So, okay, everybody has a stale route, right, which is post, corner, flat on one side of the feet. field. And then a lot of teams will put the big in on the backside. And so what happens is if you get a corner off look, quarters or cover three or whatever, you like to stay to the sale side, you know, the corner flat reading off the outside line back. But every once in a while, what happens is a defense does a great job of out leveraging the corner route. So whoever that is covered him jumps to the outside of him. And so for a guy like myself, itself, it's like, oh, obviously I'm not going to throw the corner out because the defender jumped

outside of him. But for most guys, it's like, well, the read says, go over to this side, read over to this side. I saw Jaden at one point this season have that happen to him, where he's looking over here at the sale and he feels the, you know, the backer jump outside the corner with no hesitation, boom, back to the end on the backside and drilled the big in for a big play. And those are the kinds of things when I see guys do that period in the league at all it's like got it like that's something that should always go through your mind yes you want to be over here but if you lose leverage get right back to this end because that's a good throw also but very few guys can do that see that process it and get through it here's a rookie that saw that and without any hesitation

was boom right back to the en route those were the kind of things that I saw Joel and I'm like yeah I mean this is yeah this is this is next level type stuff that he's doing as a right when you see something like that you're like okay like this is yeah this is pretty um 1994 kurt warner goes undrafted 2000 you're leading the st louis rams to the super bowl you wind up in canton you got a gold jacket for those guys you know a couple of these guys are going to get drafted high in the first five picks they're going to have a hard time at some bad pro you know bad franchises early and and and Who knows? Can they raise the level of all boats? We'll see. Other guys are going to have chances on better organizations.

What advice would you give these guys that are about to be drafted, even some of them that aren't drafted in this next chapter of their career? It's a great question. I mean, the first thing that you're always going to tell them is you've got to be ready to ride the storms because there's going to be ebbs and flows in most of their careers. you know, whatever that means, whether it's the organization they go to, whether it's the fact that they're going to be on a team that's not ready to win, even though they're expected to win, right? I mean, you know, I hear people talk all the time about, you know, when I first got to Arizona and then Matt Liner took over and all of those things. And then obviously we had great success, went to Super Bowl and all that stuff. And what people never, you know, build in is that the Arizona the Cardinals were the losing his franchise in the last 50 years of the NFL when I got here.

So they never build in the fact that this team has never won. They don't know how to win. Like they don't believe in winning when, you know, in some of these organizations when you get there. And it takes time to build that. And so I know that's frustrating for quarterbacks because quarterbacks are expected to come in and make a difference right now and to win. And sometimes it takes building. So you have to be able. to ride the ebbs and flows and understand the process and believe in the process and not get frustrated with the process knowing that some of these guys are going to be in that process. You know, they're going to be on teams that aren't good and haven't been good for a while.

And, you know, you got to be able to ride that because trying to do too much or trying to say it's not going to work. And so having the patience would be the first thing is it's so key for a lot of these guys because of the organizations they're going to go to. I think the second thing for me and the advice that I would give them is chase as much knowledge as you possibly can. Like, I'm a firm believer that understanding how to play the game will help you overcome different deficiencies that are around you. And so, for me, you know, I've always said, you know, the thing that separated me was I was always the smartest guy in the room. I always wanted the answers. I wasn't afraid when, you know, I was the backup to Trent Green in 99. Every single play he ran because he had been in the

offense, I wanted to know why. Why did you go there? Why did you do this? Why didn't you do this on this coverage? What were you seeing? What were you thinking on this? And so I was always asking those questions because when I got the ball in my hands, I wanted to have the answer for everything. Oh, why are we releasing like this? You know, why are we doing this? Why is the spacing on this? Why do we do this at one step and this at three? Like, I want to know these things because having the knowledge and being able to take ownership of the situation you're in is to me the greatest help that you can give yourself. If you don't know, and so you're subject to everything else that's going on, you know, and we could go back to the pure progression

stuff that we're talking about. If I have the knowledge to go in and say, coach, you're asking me to take a three-step drop over here, and then my number two is off a seven-step drop. How do I work my feet? What do I do in between the three-step and the seven-step while I'm waiting for this to come open? And if I'm waiting for this, this other one's also a seven-step. So how do I get here on top? Like, if I have the knowledge to be able to talk through that, to ask those questions, and then even greater thing, Joel, is if I have an answer for that, hey, do you mind if we make this first read five yards instead of two yards? Because now I can have the time out in front of it.

And by the time I get back to the number two, he'll be in position for me to read it. And then I'll have the decision and I could get to them. But you know, as well as I do. A lot of us don't know what we don't know. And, you know, I've said this a million times. I go to the combine. And one of the things I do with the combine is I try to get my number to as many of the young quarterbacks as I possibly can and say, call me, ask me a question, right?

Let me give you a perspective on a play. Let me tell you how I think about it. Let me challenge what your, anything and everything I could possibly do to help you. Let me help you. If you want to, call me. How many of the guys do that? None of them. Like, I mean, very, very few will ever reach out and do that.

Is there anybody in the league that ever reaches out to you? Yeah. I mean, I've had a few guys. I take notes every week in the NFL on all the games. I send those notes to a lot of the quarterbacks. You know, response can be different from different guys. You know, so there are some, you know, that are definitely way more engaged than other guys. But I even tell the young quarterbacks, I'm like, I give my number to everybody.

Nobody calls, so I don't expect you to call. but use the number if I can ever help you. But my point is always I want to give them as much knowledge as I possibly can. So they can take ownership when the ball is in their hands. Yeah. Right. I mean, we can say whatever we want. At the end of the day, if the ball is in my hands and we have a crappy play call and I make a bad decision,

they're never going to say, you know, hey, was that a good play call? You know, or you're never going to be able to say, well, it was a terrible play call. and I was just trying to make it work, and that's why I do. No. So the sooner you can take ownership of where you're at, what's going on, the offense that you're running, and a big part of that ownership is having the knowledge to be able to challenge what's being given to you. And I don't mean challenge as, coach, you don't know what you're talking about.

Coach, that's a horrible play. I mean challenge in, coach, you're asking me to do this. How do I feasibly do that? take me through it. Show me how I can do a three step, seven, seven, five step, and feed all these on time. You know, or being able to go, hey, if we can just do this, or I don't like this concept against this particular coverage,

can you give me this change over here to the left-hand side? Now all of a sudden I'm making myself more comfortable to play the game, and it helps me to overcome some of those deficiencies. And so I would say gain as much knowledge as you can. Don't be afraid to talk to somebody. Don't be afraid to say I don't know and learn what you don't know so you can take ownership of your situation as fast as possible. Man, I got to tell you, I very much appreciate you coming on. I took a bunch of your time, which you're super generous, and I'm very thankful for.

I love this. I like to nerd out. And the people that are digging in right now on football podcasts, they love stuff like this. So they're football junkies kind of like us. I appreciate your time, man. Can't wait to, well, I can wait to get to Green Bay because I think it's going to be cold. But I can't wait to hang out and be at the draft and talk some more ball with you. Appreciate you coming on, bud.

Oh, you got it. Anytime. I love it too. I don't get enough time to talk ball. I'm quote unquote retired. All my kids are out of the house. My wife does not want to talk football. So any opportunity I get to do a little of this to nerd out a little bit,

I'm always in, but I can't wait to see you in Green Bay, buddy. You got it. See you, buddy. All right, that was awesome. And again, thank you to Kurt for being so generous with his time and knowledge. And we're definitely going to have to get him back and talk more about everything that he's got going on when it comes to the schematics of the game. Okay, real quick, before we get out of here, a huge shout out to a dear friend of mine. And a guy that I worked with at Fox and then he jumped into the coaching ranks,

Eddie George was just named the new head coach at Bowling Green. Congratulations, Eddie. First of all, you just have to understand this. Eddie George is one of the great human beings I've ever been around. I've worked with him at Fox for a couple of years in the studio before I started going out and doing games. He is a fantastic person, and I cannot be more pleased and happy for him as now the new head coach of Bowling Green. He coached the last four years over at Tennessee State. So he did the HBCU route just like Deon did. Last season led them to an FCS playoff appearance, their first since 2013.

So he's doing a heck of a job and now rightly getting a promotion and going up to coach at Bowling Green. So good luck to Eddie George. That'll do it for the program. Next time that we will be with you will be March 17th, and that will be our mock draft 2.0. It'll be after a free agency in the NFL, and so we're going to have a better idea of what these rosters look like

and what the team needs are actually going to be when we get to Green Bay and we get to the NFL draft. So mock draft 2.0 on the Joel Clashow will be next week, March 17th. Make sure to follow us on the YouTube channel. Subscribe to that channel. Hit the notification button. You're going to know exactly when that drops. And then you can leave a comment below. You can follow us on social media at Joel Clat Show.

But most importantly, have a wonderful week. And we'll be back with that mock draft 2.0.