The Joel Klatt Show: A College Football Podcast - Officiating takes center stage at Super Bowl plus Oklahoma and Texas head to SEC early

Episode Date: February 14, 2023

FOX Sports’ lead college football analyst Joel Klatt gives his reaction to the dramatic ending of Super Bowl LVII and his thoughts on the controversial call in the final 2 minutes. He dives into the rules he believes officials should follow when making a big call that could decide the outcome including whether the time of game should matter. Then Joel breaks down Oklahoma and Texas agreeing to join the SEC a year early and what the move means for those two programs’ Playoff hopes in the future. Finally, Joel wraps up the show with some mailbag questions which leads to his cautionary tale of what not to do in a marriage proposal. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome into the Joel Clat show. I am Joel Clat. Thank you for joining me. Day late, I understand that. But listen, I didn't want to, you know, bother you the Monday after the Super Bowl. Because for obvious reasons, I feel like it should be a national holiday. Why don't we have a national holiday after the Super Bowl? But anyways, thank you for joining us. Listen, you can follow the show, any of the social medias at Joel Clatio. We would ask you, please, to follow the show, subscribe, rate and review us. We're having a great time here in the off season. This is a is going to quickly become a lot more draft heavy as I start preparing to cover the NFL draft. And yeah, we're going to keep chugging along and do some really cool stuff here in the offseason. I do want to get into a lot of things here. And we've got to talk about officiating. And I'm not going to rent and rave about officiating. Obviously, the call, they're late in the Super Bowl. I didn't agree with it. I'm going to tell you why on the show. And then last week, we did the podcast right before the news of OU and Texas, getting basically the out to leave the Big 12,

head to the SEC for the 2024 season. So some thoughts on that and then some mailbag before we get out of here. So let's get into it. Let's get into some Super Bowl reaction because, first of all, that was a phenomenal game. 35, 35 coming down the stretch there. I thought both quarterbacks played great. Both teams played really well.

There were plays made, plays not made. it was it was lining up to be an all-time finish in the Super Bowl there's no doubt about it chiefs ended up winning 3835 i picked the chiefs on the show last week as you know and and before i get into the actual game i do just want to say like from from a fox perspective i thought our guys did an awesome job i really did the crew um you know z the producer or the producer of the show obviously kevin and gregg uh EA tom everyone did a phenomenal job, pregame, post game. I was really proud of Fox. I thought it looked great. I thought it sounded great. And more specifically, for a couple of guys to be in their first year as the lead team in the NFL,

Kevin Burkhart and Greg Olson did a great job on that Super Bowl. And they've been doing a great job all year long. So it's really no surprise to me. In this industry, it's really easy to root for great people. And Kevin Burkhard is one of those types of guys. I'm a huge fan of Kevin Burke Hart. And this is nothing against Troy and Joe. Obviously, I love both of those guys as well. And Joe Buck is legendary and phenomenal at his job. I was just happy for Kevin yesterday. I thought he did a great job calling that game, rose to the occasion. And obviously, Greg was insightful and prepared. And from my seat, here's what I want, two cents, by the way, from a broadcaster. Here's what I want in a broadcast. I want to

play-by-play guy that understands the nuts and bolts and then doesn't go past that. And I want an analyst that is very prepared and is looking forward and not always backward all the time. That's really like that's that's my utopia for watching a game. That's what I try to do when I'm in the booth with Gus. And I thought those two guys did a fantastic job. So Kevin, Greg, congratulations. Many more to come hopefully. And we'll see how it all pay. hands out, Greg's going to be in some lead seat for a long time. So we'll see where that's at. Okay. Now the game itself. The game was a classic, which it won't be remembered as a classic Super Bowl only for the way that it finished. And obviously, everybody is talking about the holding

call there that effectively gave the Vince Lombardi Trophy to the Kansas City Chiefs. And I think that the hard part about it, and I'm not going to get really into what was said after the game. I understand Bradbury admitted like, yeah, you know, I tugged on his jersey and I was hoping there was no call. Yeah, listen, I understand that. I'll get to that in a little bit. Smith Schuster, by the way, ran a great route, right? There's a reason why defensive player has to get handsy. And it's generally because there's a sense of urgency within the route and the route structure from the wide receiver.

So Juju Smith-Schuster did a wonderful job on that little whip route. It was a great design. And by the way, the Red Zone that the Chiefs had been, the Red Zone plan that they had in that second half in particular was really strong from Andy Reed and Eric B. Enemy. The problem is it feels like this is just becoming all too common in these big moments. If you're a football fan, you're watching that Super Bowl, there's a good likelihood in particular if you're listening to this show and listening to me,

that you were also watching the college football playoffs. And doesn't it feel like officiating is playing too big of a part in some of these massive games? You know, in the most important games of the season here down the stretch and we're trying to award a championship. Obviously, there was the Michigan TCU debacle when they took the touchdown off the board and replay. No reason whatsoever that touchdown should have come off the board. There was obviously the targeting late that they reviewed probably should have been, wasn't. the targeting, non-targeting in the Ohio State Georgia game with Marvin Harrison Jr. at the back of the end zone, that was a massive call and play and change the trajectory of that game. You can make an argument that Ohio State wins the national championship. It wasn't for that call.

Ends up, Georgia does win the national championship. You can make a strong argument. Michigan wins the game and plays for a national championship. So these are singular calls that are making a massive impact. And now, let's. listen, we can debate and argue all we want about was it, wasn't it, was it correct, so on and so forth. But I'll get to that in a little bit. It wasn't just college football, as you know, both the AFC and the NFC championship game. There was some controversy surrounding those games. Obviously, the do-over that the Chiefs got, the call in the NFC championship game, went the Eagles away. Seahawks, by the way, got the benefit of the doubt in their game late in the season in order to get into the playoffs.

Last year, there was the holding call in a similar situation, by the way, late in that game that went against the Bengals and the Rams end up winning the Super Bowl. So what should we take from that? Why is it more common now? Like, what's going on? Okay? So I think that it would be at least wise of us to take a step back and at least ponder like what's happening right now. Well, I do have a couple of theories. Let me just give you one of them.

The trajectory with which people that are making the rules in our sport, both college and in the NFL, the trajectory that they've taken the rules, have made it really difficult to actually officiate the sport. And I'm going to defend the officials here. And I want everybody to hear this because you're going to probably pull clips of me later in this show and say, like, oh, Joel was killing the officials. officials in general do a wonderful job. I mean, they train really hard, they take it very serious, and unfortunately for them, the actual guys on the field, and women, by the way, trying to officiate this wonderful sport, is that the people that have made the rules,

both in the college game and the NFL game, have made it really difficult on them. So in many cases, they're put in an impossible situation, way too many subjective type penalties that are emphasized in both sports, right? Trying to go more towards the offense or player safety. And so many times these new rules or emphasis of rules make it very difficult on these officials because they put them in precarious spots, latent games, where they are entering into subjective areas. Okay.

So where does that leave us? Well, it leaves us with what in general is a very good officiating body, left in a precarious spot where they have more subjective calls than they did in the past, at least in my estimation, because of the emphasis of the rules, which leads us to the distinction, or should lead us to the distinction between objective calls and subjective calls. So this is where it all lands for me. When it comes to officiating, and this goes for every single sport, by the way. So obviously we're talking about football here, but this really goes for every single sport.

As a competitor, I have a distinct knowledge between the difference of the objective calls in the sport and the subjective calls in the sport. Did he get his feet down inbounds before the white line? Objective. Did the ball cross the goal line? objective. Like, my whole goal and desire as a competitor is for those calls, the objective calls, get it right. By any means necessary. By any means necessary, get it right. Every objective call, you should be able to get it right. Now, what does that mean for? The subjective calls, the holdings, the pass interference, the, you know, like those types of, well, you can't always get it

right. Now, I would love for you to get it right, but more so as a competitor, my desire, excuse me, my desire is that you're consistent. So the distinction is as such, for the objective calls, please get it right, please get it right. I do not want to lose a game because you missed an objective call. That is inexcusable. And for subjective calls, my whole desire is, however you start to call it, call it that way for the rest of the game. I understand as a competitor that that can change from game to game. It's like a strike zone in baseball. Whatever you're calling in the first inning, it better be that way in the ninth inning.

Because if you've established, for me as a hitter, that you're not calling the ball that just nicks the outside corner. Technically a strike, but you haven't called it a strike all day long. just nick in the corner. You have squeezed the pitcher all day long. And now I've got two strikes. It's the bottom of the eighth or top of the ninth, whatever it is, right? It's the crucial time. I'm a hitter.

You've established your zone. Okay, so I'm going based on your subjective strike zone. And now you change it? That's not my fault. That's yours. That's yours. So you can, all you want, all you people out there, and I see you on Twitter, Brady Quinn, I see you out there.

It's a hold. He admitted it. It's the letter of the law. The letter of the law does not apply to subjective calls in any sport because it's more about the consistency. It's always been about the consistency. Whatever you start with, you've got to end with. And that was my problem in this Super Bowl. Did you know that that holding call was the first holding of the game?

So wait, hold on, time out. You mean to tell me that that. little tug of the jersey, which I don't even think affected the play, was the first holding call all day long and, hey, letter of the law, it's a holding? Pound sand. Get over yourself. That doesn't apply. There was clearly a precedent set in the subjective area of holding for the defensive backs and for that matter, for the offensive and defensive linemen. There was a precedent set, a strike zone set, and it changed late in the game, and that's unfair to the competitors. That's unfair.

So when Bradbury says like, well, yeah, you know, I was hoping I was going to get away with it. Yeah, you know why you were hoping you were going to get away with it? Because you did all day. You did all day. And so for the flag to come out there, my problem is with the lack of consistency. That's why it's an awful call. That's why it's an awful call. The other side of this that you've got to understand is like, what was the strike zone set?

Well, I already told you that was the first holding call. the entire game. And guess how many defensive pass interferences had been called all day long? Zero. Zero. The strike zone had been set. It had been set.

And in the subjective area of holding DPI, those little things, Bradbury was playing by the strike zone that was set. If you want to say that the ball hit the corner and in K zone, technically it was a strike.

And oh, every time there's a little grab. If it wasn't a hold in the first quarter, it shouldn't have been a hold in the fourth quarter. So we have to have a distinction between what we think of when it comes to objective calls and when it comes to subjective calls. And then the last thing when it comes to officiating. And this is another and a more overarching point I think about officiating is I've heard people, and in particular out on social media, start to talk about and have the conversation of like, well, should the moment matter? Yes. Obviously, the moment should matter. I've gone back and forth on this in my life, but yes, the moment should matter. The bottom line for me is that when the outcome of the game is like directly in question, directly. Obviously, it's in question during the course of the game. But when it's directly in question, but when it's directly in question, the play, the call had better affect the outcome of that play. It better.

You know, in basketball, in baseball, whatever. Like, it better affect the outcome of the play and fall into the strike zone that you set in the subjective area during the course of the game. If it doesn't affect the play, man, it feels like you're trying to make yourself a part of the game as an official. And as a competitor, that's what I despise more than anything else, more than anything else. So why did I tweet that I thought it was an awful call?

Because of all those reasons. Because of all those reasons. Objective and subjective needs to matter. Moment needs to matter. And the fact of the matter is, is that the consistency that had been set during the course of that great phenomenal Super Bowl was the fact that there were zero holding calls to that point. zero defensive pass interferences to that point. And that's the flag throne to award the Vince Lombardi trophy? Come on.

Come on. So all of you out there that are Letter of the Law people, I just don't buy it. I don't buy it. I feel like you're trying to be contrarian. And I disagree with you. Let's move on. Big news out of college football last week as it was dropped that OU and Texas have entered into an agreement to exit the Big 12 for the 2024 season, and they will be members of

the SEC. The first reaction that I had was, man, 2023 is going to feel weird because it's going to literally feel like, and I guess, forgive me, today is just the day of baseball analogies. It's the on-deck year. It's all we're going to be talking about is what this looks like moving forward, what 2024 looks like, what these conferences are going to look like, what the extended or excuse me, expanded playoff is going to look like, what it's going to feel like, how is this going to happen? And in 2023 is going to be like this, wah, wah, we still have the subjective four-team invitational and the conferences that we currently have.

It's going to be a fascinating year because of that. There's no doubt. Obviously, there is big changes to the Big 12 as they're adding those new teams, some of those new teams before OU and Texas leave. We'll still have a relationship and do. some of those games, so that's going to be interesting. The huge shift then comes in 2024. And I can't wait for it. I really can't. I think that these are changes that in many ways were inevitable. I've talked about that. I've talked about that at many times, in particular when the

news about USC and UCLA came out and their move to the Big Ten, these major brands that were, and forgive me for the language, but stuck in the conferences that they were stuck in, getting shares that were going to be significantly lower than peers that were in the Big Ten and the SEC, they really didn't have a choice. Now, you can hate it. I understand that. And a lot of traditionalists do hate it. I understand that. I totally get it. But in reality and in economic reality. These schools didn't really have a choice. And it made way too much sense for everyone involved. So they're going to move and we're going to get tectonic shifts in college football in 24. We're going to have an expanded playoff. We're going to have these brand new conferences.

I can't wait to see how it plays out. And to be honest, I don't really know how it's going to play out. I will tell you this. I can't wait to see how the expanded playoff helps the conferences that aren't the SEC and the Big Ten. And I do think that it will because the language that we've been told is going to be used is that the six best champions from the sport are going to go to the postseason. Well, that's good news if you're in the future Pack 10, whatever they're going to call it, if you're in the Big 12, if you're in the ACC, because those conferences become, at least for the teams that are in the middle of the conferences now and having a hard time kind of clamoring up and playing with some of the big boys, become more winnable, more

winnable. So where does that leave us in 2024? Where does that leave OU and Texas in 2024? A lot of people have asked me like, well, what do you think their chances are in the SEC? you know, there's part of me that believes, like, they're going to go in and be just fine. And then I start to think to myself, no, no, no, no, hold on. Alabama and Georgia have so far outpaced, really everybody but maybe Ohio State in terms of recruiting, that it's going to be really difficult. Now, this recruiting cycle went very well for both Texas and Oklahoma. And I thought that Steve Sarkesian and Brent Venables did a really good job in this.

recruiting cycle, but they're going to have to do that two, three, four years in a row in order to have a roster that can compete with both Georgia and Alabama. Now, the difference is that I don't think it's going to be as important to win the conference moving forward in the expanded playoff as it is now currently, or at least competing for the conference title, right? So I think that the third and fourth best team in both the Big Ten and the SEC is almost assured to go to the college football playoff in many cases. In many cases. Basically, what I feel like is going to happen is that the six spots after the six best champions are basically going to be SEC and Big Ten teams.

Maybe a few more SEC teams than Big Ten teams. but on average, I think you're going to have about three and a half, four, Big Ten teams, and you're going to have about, I don't know, three and a half four, four and a half on average SEC teams. And because of that, OU and Texas, maybe they don't have to go in there and win the conference right away. Do I think they will eventually? You know, probably, especially Oklahoma. I mean, Oklahoma is a proud, proud program that have, I mean, they owned the Big 12. they win conference championships.

They're recruiting at a high level. They probably will at some point. I just don't know if they're going to do it right away. But I don't know if it matters. And I don't think that it does. Because again, when we get into the expanded playoff, we've got these six spots for champions across college football, two of which will be the Big Ten and the SEC champion.

Then you've got four other champions. And now you've got six spots. Those are basically going to go to the Big Ten in the SEC, at least in my estimation. So that's what I think it's going to happen. that's how I think it's going to play out. And because of that, I think OU and Texas could be, in particular if they capitalize on the recruiting that they had in this cycle for 2023, they could be in good shape. Okay.

Let's get to some mailbag here before we get out of here. Neither of these are actually football related, which I kind of love this. And by the way, if you please send us some mailbag questions if you need like. advice about anything. You can throw that out there. And by the way, and Catherine, Catherine Donnelly, who is phenomenal, she's one of our producers on this show. And she has been from the very beginning. Kat and Steve basically run my life when it comes to the Joel Klatt show. And Kat was saying, you know, she reads a lot of these, she and Steve, but, you know, Kat reads a lot of these. And she's like, where's my ladies? So ladies, like, send Kat some emails, right? By the way,

Cat just got engaged. Congratulations. And is going to be having a wedding this summer. By the way, good on Kat, knowing that you don't have a fall wedding. So congratulations. You already knocked over one of the most important things when it comes to scheduling your wedding. But ladies, send us a mailbag question. You can send us any type of question, advice, whatever you want. I'm a father of three. I've been married for 18 years. So here we go. You can send us the Joel Klatt Show, mailbag at gmail.com. Anything right there. The Joel Clash Show mailbag at gmail.com. Now let's get to a couple for this show. Greg, Mark, chimes in. Greg, first of all, thank you for listening to the show. He chimes in. He says, Hey, Joel, currently I'm a new father with a 15-month-old son. What kind of father advice could you offer for myself or any new fathers out there? Thanks. Greg, I love this question. And there's so much advice that I would go back and change. Let me give you just a few. And part of it was what I said last week. One, don't wish away time, Greg, because it's so easy to say like, man, I can't wait until my son sleeps. I can't wait until my son eats solids. I can't wait until we can play catch.

I can't wait until he can ride his bike to the park. And the bottom line is, every stage is phenomenal. Right. So enjoy every stage. The other thing that, I would tell you is that your son is going to grow into the man that he was designed to be. And there have been a lot of times when with my three boys, I'm like, well, that's interesting. Like, you know, that's a weird book or I don't know. I'm not really into those movies. That's okay, because they're their own person. And they have their own interest.

And you've got to meet them where they're at. Some of my most fond memories, my oldest son's 11 years old, and some of my most fond memories are when I just ask him specifically, like, what do you want to do? What do you want to do? And he'll be like, I want to watch Star Wars. Boom, let's go. I had not watched Star Wars in my life until I became a father. Why? Because my sons wanted to watch Star Wars. So dive into some of their interests as he gets older. And I can tell you this right now, like, Like they will feel valued and seen and you will have some of the most special moments ever when you do that and you dive in to some of their interests. And then the last thing that I would say, Greg, is that great families happen on purpose. And the bottom line is great fathers are in demand out there. And so be intentional. Be involved. Listen.

Love your son. Tell him he's loved. Tell them when you screw up. That's some of also my best advice is like when I screw up, I tell my three boys. Hey, and I ask for their forgiveness. Listen, dad did X, Y, and Z and you know what? I shouldn't have done that. Boys, that's on me.

Can you forgive me? Those are impactful and powerful moments. So lean in because great families happen on purpose. All right. Next question comes in from Nathan, Nathan, trainer. First of all, Nathan, thank you for listening to the show. Nathan shimes and he says, hey, Joel, I'm planning on proposing to my girlfriend in the near future. Any advice on how to make it special and memorable?

Best regards, Nathan. Well, Nathan, don't do what I did. So I don't have great advice for you on this one. Let me start with when I was proposing, I was young and dumb. I was 23 years old. and I was still in school playing and one of my roommates was an offensive lineman, Sam, Wilder. And Sam dipped at the time, you know, like chewing. And so he would always need like a spitter, like a bottle.

And I had in Denver, like the Shane Company is a big thing. So I bought, I went and like bought the ring for, for Sarah at the Shane Company. And when you're there, they're like, would you like any water? I'm like, I would love some water. I'd love to stay hydrated. So I got like a Shane company water bottle. And so like when I got home, I like just threw it in the trash. Well, my college roommate offensive lineman who needed a spitter dug through the trash.

I didn't think anything of it. And so like Sarah comes over one night. and Sam's just like sitting on the couch, like spitting into the bottle, and it's a Shane Company water bottle. So she's queued in. Then I ask her like, hey, I want to take you up to the Chautauqua house.

Chautauqua Park is in Boulder. It's like right above Boulder. And it's super fancy. Like we hadn't done anything fancy. And so she puts two and two together. She knows that like, hey, you know, the Shane Company bottle. Joel asked me to go to the Chautauqua house for dinner.

he's going to propose on Saturday night. Meanwhile, I think like, oh, man, this is, you know, she has no idea, this or that. And my plan was, I'm going to take her. And this is December and Boulder, okay, Boulder, Colorado. And at the time, and I think that they still do this, they have either, isn't it, I think it's a cross that they have in the, either a cross or a heart. Why am I screwing this up? I think it's a cross.

up on the hill, like in the flat irons, like in lights, like they put a cross for the season, right? Okay? So you understand. And my plan was like, I'm going to take Sarah. Our faiths are very important to us. So I was like, I'm going to take her to the cross overlooking Boulder, like kind of near sunset. I know it's cold, but like over the and just like kind of like walk to the cross and in the lights and like do it there. Now, I didn't have other people there to take pictures.

This is before like the big, you know, pomp and circumstance of what you have these days. And so no one was going to be there. I didn't have a camera ready. I didn't have anything ready. I was just going to take her up there and like ask her to marry me. And I thought that that was going to be like super romantic and very cool. And we get in the car. Keep in mind, she knows that I'm asking that night.

But she doesn't know my plan. She just thinks we're going to the Chautauqua house. Well, to drive to the Chautauqua house, you've got to drive towards the mountain and towards the cross. Right. The lights were driving in my 99 green Tacoma and she says out of the blue, I hate that cross. I was like, what in the actual, like, I'm sorry? What do we do it? Oh, you do?

Oh, why? Now I'm trying to play it off. rings in my pocket. No plan. I'm like, what is the audible here? Omaha. What, like, oh, Red 50, Red, can you just go stand on the other side? I've got no audible.

None. I got nowhere to go. And now I'm just driving and I'm numb. And I'm like, what am I going to do? So Nathan, I did the dumbest thing of all time. I just started to head still straight towards the cross. Because I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know where I'm going.

I don't know what I'm doing. The reservation isn't until like, you know, for 45 minutes later. I can't just go and be like, oh, you know, the reservation's not ready. And what's sit in the waiting room? Like, oh. So I just start heading up. But then it like starts to hit me and I start to sweat. And I'm like, I can't go to the cross.

Like I can't take her there after what she said in the car. So I literally just pulled off the side of the road in one of those like lookouts, super creepy. And just was like, oh, doesn't the city look beautiful? Oh, look at this. And like got out of the truck. I'm just frozen. I don't know what to do. I'm shaking.

I'm nervous. I didn't have a backup plan. then I realized like it's too dark she can't even see the ring so if I get down on my knee so then I'm like hold on honey and I go back and I turn the headlights on of the truck and then like go back and ask her there and all she says is of course she didn't say yes she didn't cry she knows it's coming she she blew up my plan to go to the cross I had no backup I had no one there to take pictures the only light we had were the headlights of the truck, and it was a total failure. Meanwhile, by the way, got the wrong size of ring.

Didn't even fit her. We had to put like a band-aid on her ring so that it would fit her. So you talk about failure. You've got to prepare. Nathan, prepare. Have a backup plan. Have a photographer. Know what you're doing.

Know that you got the right ring size, all those things. And based on current events, I hear balloons are big right now. So maybe go with balloons. not even sure. Maybe balloons are in. Nathan, good luck, sir. Hopefully it goes better than mine. That'll do it for today's show. I appreciate you listening. Remember, subscribe, rate, review us. I'll be back this week. I've got a really special show lined up. My partner, Gus Johnson, has an amazing documentary coming out about him. The year that he just had this last fall, he was going to Harvard and calling games. It was quite an amazing fall. So,

In preparation for that documentary to drop, I believe, on the 18th, I'm going to have Gus on. The first guess on the Joel Clat Show is going to be Gus Johnson. I'm going to sit down with him later in the week, and we're going to have a long conversation about all things. Broadcasting, his documentary, we're going to have a great time. So that's coming up later this week, and I can't wait for it. It should be really fun. Again, thank you for listening. Remember all the social medias.

follow us at Joel Clatcho. Subscribe, rate, review us, and have a great week.