The Joel Klatt Show: A College Football Podcast - Ohio State is ‘scary’ good, Oregon impresses, TCU rallies again, and Clemson survives

Episode Date: October 24, 2022

FOX Sports’ lead college football analyst Joel Klatt recaps the biggest games and storylines from Week 8 of the College Football season. Joel shares his main takeaways from calling the Ohio State-Iowa game in Columbus on Saturday. Ohio State was able to score at will in the second half on a stout Iowa defense, despite the fact the Buckeyes didn’t play well compared to their standard. Then, Joel breaks down why Oregon has become such a good team after their blow out loss in the season opener to Georgia. Next, Joel discusses TCU’s come back win over Kansas State - the Horned Frogs fourth straight win over a ranked opponent. Finally, Joel shares his thoughts on Clemson’s close win over Syracuse at home. Clemson coach Dabo Swinney pulled DJ Uiagalelei for Cade Klubnik during the game, and Joel wonders if they are as good as their ranking suggests. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

eyes covering Marvin Harrison and he cuts it up and over and layers it. And Harrison stretches out to make the catch. That's outstanding. This, I'm telling you, this guy, this guy is the limit for Marvin Harrison, Jr. I truly believe that this man right here on your screen will be the best receiver in the NFL in about four or five years. Oh, man, Marvin Harrison Jr. I tell you, I love watching him play football.

He's a natural athlete, prodigious talent. And a guy that, like I said, and I believe, and by the way, I wrote that down prior, I believe that. And I was weighing whether I was going to say Marvin Harrison, Jr. is going to be the best wide receiver in the NFL in four or five years. And it's just like, you know, that catch kind of led it, led me right to it. You know, you lead a horse to water and there he goes. So Marvin Harrison Jr., hey, what's up, everybody?

I am Joel Clatt. This is the Joel Clat show. I'm very excited about this episode, as I'm sure you are, because it was a good weekend of college football. once again, the sport never disappoints. Lots to get into today. It was my first opportunity to see Ohio State. So you Buckeye fans, I've got a lot of thoughts about that game. And really, I think just college football fans in general. We just need to step back and evaluate what we saw from Ohio State and Iowa and what it means. And so I'll go through that. This Oregon team just gets better and better every week. And I've got some thoughts. on Oregon. Dan Lannning and crew doing a great job. TCU continues to win, doing something that's

only been done three other times in the AP poll era. And I got some thoughts on Clemson as well in a win and staying undefeated and their quarterback situation. So that's where we're going to go today. I do have thoughts, by the way, on Texas, Texas A&M. That's coming on Wednesday. So the Wednesday episode, I'll dive into the disappointments that are Texas and Texas A&M a little bit further. But right now it's going to be Ohio State, Oregon, TCU, Clemson, Big Week into college football. Let's get started. Well, it really was kind of a tale of two halves in a lot of ways. Coach Day, congrats on the win, but you look up in 5410.

What was said at the break and what adjustments were made to find that rhythm offensively? Well, what we talked about at halftime was the defense had to just, to continue to do what they were doing, which we thought they were playing very, very well. And the offense just needed to finish off some drives. And the scoreboard would look a lot different. We felt like we dominated on defense, really, in that first half. And then, you know, an offense, you know, they're very good on defense. And it was hard early on.

And we stuck with it and then got to rhythm a little bit there in a third and beginning of the fourth. All right. So what you would expect him to say after a game like that. And as you know, I don't just sit there and recap the game. But I do have a lot of thoughts. Okay. So the first thing that he said is we got to finish off drives. Yes. And the score would have looked wildly different, in particular with the way that the Ohio State defense was giving their offense a short field, really throughout that first half. If Ohio State's offense is even remotely good in the first half, they've got a giant lead in that game, giant lead. And so the fact that Iowa's defense, which came in is one of the best defenses in college football. And by the way, I still think that they're one of the best defenses in college football. And by the way, I still think that they're one of the best defenses in college football. football. The fact that they held them to those field goals is the reason that we didn't have

that runaway from Ohio State. Now, it would come later, but I want to talk first about style, okay? And not necessarily style points from an Ohio State perspective, but style of game, all right, and blueprint. Because here's what you have to understand. This Iowa team, and more importantly, program, because it's not just this year. They've been doing this for years and years and years at Iowa. Their blueprint is to minimize the number of possessions you get as an opponent, to win the field position battle, to create good field position for their offense,

in particular short fields, and try to steal some points here or there, and then get you into a situation where it's uncomfortable late. And then they're like, this is what we want. Hopefully we can win the line of scrimmage. And in particular late, our will will break your will. and we'll win the game. And we'll make one more play than you do. And we've seen that work for a lot of years for Kirk Farrants. And it's not working this year. And we understand that, right? They play in small margins and they play on the fine line. But let's go back to the blueprint like I was talking about. For them to be effective, they have to reduce the number of overall possessions that you get as an opponent. And through the first few really 10 possessions, eight possessions of this game on Saturday, they were doing exactly what Iowa needed to do to stay in a game and produce a one-possession game

late in the fourth quarter. Let me tell you what I mean by that. Through the first eight possessions in that ballgame that Ohio State had, they had scored one touchdown and kicked four field goals. That's 19 points. Okay, now they had also scored a defensive touchdown. Let's just remove that, right? And just talk about the style, like, how is the blueprint supposed to work for Iowa. That's how it's supposed to work. You're forcing them to kick field goals. You give up maybe one touchdown through eight possessions. It's 19 offensive points. Maybe you steal a half field here or there. Maybe you can get into the end zone yourself. Maybe you can get into the end zone on the offense. Let's say it's 1914 through eight possessions. Guess where it should be in the game on the

scoreboard through eight possessions. If they're doing their job, if their offensive line can play a requisite level, if they can sustain drives, What should happen, the design for Iowa is that at that point through eight possessions, it's about eight minute mark of the fourth quarter. Maybe less than that, seven minute, six minute mark of the fourth quarter. So at that time, then Ohio State's at home. It's 1914 and all of a sudden you're in this dug fight, right? You feel like you've been taken into deep water by Iowa.

That's how they're built. That's how their defense played in the first eight possessions. Here's the problem. through those eight possessions offensively for Ohio State, guess how much time had come off the clock. It was still 1144 left in the third quarter. At that point, it's unsustainable. That defense cannot hold up anymore. You can't give Ohio State that many bites at the apple before the avalanche of points is going to eventually come to you.

And that's exactly what happened. And in the subsequent four possessions, Ohio State scored four offensive touchdowns, blew the game wide open. And when you couple that with the fact that they did have a defensive score earlier, what do you get? You get 54 points. So the fact that the blueprint for Iowa was working except for their offense could not sustain. So what does that lead us to?

Okay. So what are you explaining here, Joel? Well, here's what I'm explaining. You can sit there and this game was really more about what was happening when Iowa had the ball and when Ohio State was on defense. And why was that so important? Well, two things can be true at the same time in this game. Iowa can be awful on offense and a really good defense for Ohio State can be doing exactly

what they should do to a bad offense, right? Iowa's offense was awful. I'm not defending it. you're not defending it. That was bad. That was awful. So what should a good defense, albeit a really good defense,

do to an offense like that? Thoroughly dominate them. Well, Joel, when they see an offense like that, they should have, definitely shouldn't have 10 or more first downs. Iowa didn't. Probably shouldn't have 200 total yards. Iowa didn't.

Probably should be like less than, shoot, 15% on third down conversions, Iowa was less than 15%. What were the actual numbers? Well, eight first downs, 158 total yards, and one of 13 on third down. So what I'm trying to say is Ohio State did exactly what they should do to that offensive team. And that was part of the reason why it was still at the 1144 mark in the third quarter. You see, Ohio State kept gaining possessions for their offense.

That's what makes Ohio State much better this year. than they were a year ago. We've seen times throughout history in college football where really good offenses, offenses that you would categorize at the top of college football can get stymied through 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 possessions. So what's the difference?

Well, those teams can get beat if their defense does not keep providing them opportunities. And that's exactly what Ohio State did. They scored defensively. They kept gaining turnovers. They kept applying the pressure. they kept dominating the opponent. So that's good news for the Ohio State Buckeyes.

That's good news for the Ohio State Buckeyes. And when you actually look at it in comparison to the only team that you can compare Ohio State to this year because they're going to have to play them late in November, they actually dominated that offense to a much better degree than Michigan dominated the Iowa offense just a few weeks ago. albeit that one was at home for Iowa and this one was on the road. but the numbers are actually pretty stark. When you look at what Iowa did offensively against Michigan,

because remember, these are the two freight trains that are pointing at each other. So can we really evaluate Ohio State without bringing up Michigan? Can we really evaluate Michigan without bringing up Ohio State? I don't think you can because those two teams have to go through one another to get even to the Big Ten championship game. Okay, so these freight trains are pointed at each other, which means all we can do is start comparing where are they against one another with common opponents,

with the way that they played on any given week. And now we've got this common opponent, and you're going to see Iowa's offense against Ohio State had eight first downs, 158 total yards, and they were one of 13 on third downs. Michigan held Iowa at 16 first downs, 281 total yards, and four of 11 on third down. So the numbers weren't as good.

The numbers weren't as good. you know, and I for one, and not many people out there were sitting there after Michigan beat Iowa pretty thoroughly on the road. None of us were sitting there like, yeah, but, you know, they still ain't played nobody. For whatever reason, the standard that everyone holds Ohio State to is extraordinary, extraordinary. And what you'll see here in a moment is like, this team is actually really scary. And after, well, let me get to that in a moment. Let me talk first about, like, this defense, because I'm talking a lot about the defense. The defense did what we haven't seen before under Ryan Day, which is they were dominating a game and just providing this really good offense, more bites at the apple.

Okay, so this defense is now one of the best statistical defenses in all of college football. Okay? You look at the fact that they are a top 10 pressure defense. They also started getting to the quarterback, five sacks. You look at this defense and what they are from, you know, total defense, scoring defense, yards per play defense, rush defense, past defense, all of its top 10, all of its top 10. We're getting to the point now. They're a top five scoring deep, fifth in the country and scoring defense, second in the entire country in total defense. I think that would really surprise people.

Ohio State is number two in the country and total defense right now. That's a scary proposition because we know how good their offense is, in particular when you keep giving them opportunities like a defense like they have can do. And Iowa learned that on Saturday. So how is this defense built? How have they fixed it? Let's go into that really quickly. Okay, so Jim Knowles, the defensive coordinator for Ohio State.

He comes in from Oklahoma State. And he built a really good defense at Duke. He then built a really good defense at Oklahoma State. Now, he's starting to, what I believe, build a really good defense and maybe even quicker than he did at the previous locations, but he's building a really good defense at Ohio State. So how does he do it? So I asked him about this. I thought it was a really fascinating and fun conversation to have. As you know, I nerd out. I love talking with these guys about schematics, their philosophy. And for Jim, I wanted to ask him really about the origins of this philosophy. Some of my favorite conversations throughout. doing this job is like, for instance, sitting with Mike Leach asking him how he built the air raid. When he and Hal Mummy built the air raid, how was it born? Same with like Lincoln Riley. Your philosophy of the run mixed with the air raid pass, how was that born?

And when Jim Knowles, I finally was able to have that conversation about this defense and this defensive philosophy, which is very very, unique. The structure is not super unique, but the philosophy of how he uses this structure is fairly unique. Okay. And so here's, let me take you into what he and I talked about. Number one, that he sat there with David Cuckcliffe at Duke, and he said, you know, with the way modern offense is going, I've got to build a defense that can communicate really quickly with quick calls, but it's not just about having calls that are really quick, maybe even one word. It's about those calls allowing us to be really multiple in how we attack the offense. So remember, most teams offensively use a quicker tempo

because they feel like it's going to give them an advantage because they feel like they're going to get more vanilla looks on the other side because it's just harder to make defensive calls. So he wanted to build a system and a communication pattern that would allow him to be multiple, blitz, change the front, change the coverage, and communicate it in a really quick manner. I thought that was, you know, really cool. And then also it's like, okay, well, that's just language, right? So let's talk more about structure.

And so he said, well, I'm getting to that because there was only one, there was only two bullet points. One was quickly communicate, and the second was disguise. I wanted to build a structure and a defense that in every single call and at every single moment, we were disguising for two people, the offensive coordinator on the other side, play caller, and the quarterback. I thought that was interesting. And so he went into how he loves the 425 because you've got three safeties and you can disguise the coverage and you can really mix and match who's dropping, when they're dropping,

who's blitzing, when they're blitzing, and you can change front structure, so on and so forth. So quickly call a defense, be multiple in the way that you attack the offense, and then have the ability to disguise. And the purpose in disguising is to confuse the play caller pre-snap, because you know all these offenses love to look over the sideline, also confuse the quarterback, both pre-snap and post-snap. And why? What are you trying to achieve? You're trying to force the coordinator to stick with a play call and then for the quarterback to pat the ball and wait for a moment in the pocket. And what does that moment achieve? Pressure. So the disguise is all about presenting pressure on the quarterback.

So you're trying to confuse him, make him go to a second look, pat the ball, get uncomfortable for a moment mentally. and then you're going to make him uncomfortable physically with your ability to get to the passer. And they did that, and they do that. This is a top 10 pressure rate team from a defensive standpoint. They got five sacks. This is a team that hadn't gotten to the quarterback yet, but you knew it was coming. Why did you know it was coming? Because Jim Nulls at Oklahoma State, with, I would say, actually, lesser players,

and that's not a knock, it just is what it is when you look at the recruiting statistics, they led the country in sacks last year with four per game. There was only one team that had more total sacks than Oklahoma State. And that was Alabama with one more game that they played in the 15 rather than the 14 Oklahoma State played. So in terms of a per game, Oklahoma State was the best quarterback rush team in the country. Why? Disguise. Forcing the quarterback to just hold the ball a beat longer than he wants to. And we saw that show up against Iowa.

I believe those numbers will continue. I believe that their pressure rate will continue. I believe their ability to get to the quarterback will continue. We may see it even this week against Penn State. So that's how they're built. I think that's why they've got some staying power. And then they were also able to create the turnovers. So this defense, let's recap, dominated a team that they should dominate.

And why is that important? Well, this is why it's important. Because after all that's being said, okay? And you take a look at that game. Here's kind of a bottom line description of Ohio State's win over Iowa. I don't think anybody would say or argue, and I certainly wouldn't, would argue that Ohio State played well. I mean, they had to settle for four field goals on short fields in the first half. This is the best offense in the country, right?

I mean, they didn't play well, right? They played okay. They played okay. They got it going late, right? They played good. They played good. And blew the doors off of Iowa. Wasn't even close.

Wasn't even close. Scored more points on the scoreboard than anybody's ever scored against a Kirk Farrant's team. There's only been three other teams get into the 40s since 2015. Stanford in the Rose Bowl with Christian McCaffrey, an Iowa state team that, by the way, Iowa still won that game early. early in the season, 44-41, and Michigan in the Big Ten championship game last year. So, like, since 2015, teams don't even score in the 40s. Ohio State didn't even play well and dropped a 54 on that team.

That's scary. 54-10, spreads 30, they covered, dropped 54, worse loss in the Ferrence era, and you're like, no, you know, they played okay. I mean, do you see like now, in hindsight, after you peel back, the layers of this onion. You sit there and you're like, well, this is scary. This is scary how good Ohio State could be because everyone always wants to look to the offense. And that's how we're going to define a team as playing well or not playing well. But the bottom line is, is that this defense thoroughly dominated, a team that they should thoroughly dominate.

They basically allowed three points because remember the score for Iowa as far as the touchdown goes was the defensive score. They allowed three points. And it was a long field goal. So how good can Ohio State be? Well, they didn't even play well and absolutely roasted Iowa 54 to 10. So I think that they're really good. And once I finally got to that point, and I thought more about the game, and I thought about all of these things that I've been talking about right now, that's why it was so easy to still put them number one.

Because there's still so much more complete than anybody else in the country. Nobody else can couple that offensive firepower with that amount of defensive dominance. You can't, right? So like the dominant defense for Alabama, yeah, they were great against Mississippi State, only scored 30 points. Tennessee doesn't have a defense like Ohio States, not even close, quite frankly. Look at the passing yards. They just gave up this weekend and last weekend. You know, I've told you again and again, Florida and Alabama had more first downs than Tennessee, more total yards than Tennessee, even though Tennessee won those games. A bad Pittsburgh team, maybe that's harsh, but

Remember, they were down to a backup quarterback. He was hobbling around, took him to overtime. So why is Ohio State still number one? That's why. Because they don't even have to play well, and they beat Kirk Ferrensen, Iowa, 54 to 10. It's wild. It's wild.

And once I finally, like, I started writing all this down late last night on the plane ride. I watched the game back today on film, preparing for the game against Ohio State and Penn State this week. And it just hits me. I'm like, oh my gosh. It was 5410. It's a scary proposition.

All right, let's move on. Really good game up at Oregon. UCLA went up there, thought UCLA would win. They didn't. They did not. Oregon's up next. I see a Ducks team here, Jason, that isn't going anywhere. I mean, they just have too much.

And defensively, they give up some yards today. Sure, but they settle for field goals and holding the field goals. Absolutely. Did they come off a by week just as sharp? because they went into it? Absolutely. Yeah, good description by Brock there. He did a great job on that game.

I was jealous, right? I mean, like, our game was a stinker. His was fantastic. And he did an awesome job, awesome job. This Oregon team is a really good story. And just really good. And I'll talk about both of those things. Let's start with why is Oregon such a good team?

Okay. Well, one, I think that this has gone overlooked and certainly went overlooked by me leading into this game is they've got one of the best home field advantages in all of college football. All right. Ottson was awesome, right? And our crew there with Fox, Bo Garrett, the producer, everybody involved. They did an amazing job just showing the atmosphere, the shout in the third quarter. Like, it was a great atmosphere. It was loud.

and you could tell that that made life really difficult on UCLA, who I still think is a pretty good team, by the way. This doesn't mean UCLA is bad, by the way. It just means Oregon is really good, and that place is ridiculously difficult to play. They've won 23 straight games there, and that's one of the best home field advantages in the sport. And no one talks about it.

We never talk about it. And shame on me, shame on guys like me, for not talking about Pac-12 football that way. We just never talk about atmospheres on the West Coast as being great. That's a great atmosphere. Oregon's got one of the best home field advantages in the entire sport. And they proved it on Saturday. So good on you, Duck fans.

You were fantastic. That was loud and difficult on a really veteran quarterback and a good team in UCLA. And Oregon handled a really good UCLA team 4530. And how did they do that? Well, they did it because they just put their head down after that opening week loss and got better and better and better. The offensive line is the best offensive line in the Pack 12th. And one of the better ones in the country, and that was proven out on Saturday.

Their run game was tremendous, tremendous. I thought Bo Nix was outstanding. That always comes with a caveat because when you play the amount of football that Bo Nix has under the microscope, you know that like there's good bow and bad bow, and we got the really good bow on Saturday. and that was fantastic for Oregon. He threw a couple of those deep balls that were impeccable. They were as good as you can possibly throw them.

They've got speed on the outside. They're tough on defense. Even though they gave up some yards, they're tough. It was hard on UCLA all game long. That's why they ended up having to settle for field goals because nothing came easy. So even though they were able to score 30 and gain some yards, it was hard work.

That's exactly what a defense should do. I think they're really skilled and good in the backfield. Oregon is a really good football team, a really good football team. And so it leads you to like, well, what are we supposed to do with week one? What are you supposed to do with week one? Because they got drilled by, what was it, 46 against Georgia in week one. Well, let's not like explain it away. And yes, that's a huge win for Georgia and looks better every single week

as Oregon continues to get better. But in hindsight, here's a program that loses their coach, hires a guy that basically goes across country from Georgia as a defense coordinator all the way up to Oregon. They get a quarterback across the country. They're trying to build a team chemistry.

There's a lot of these players that I'm sure feel jaded that Dan Lannings trying to win over in the locker room and build a chemistry at Oregon. it's always difficult for a new coach. He's a first-time head coach. And here he is in his very first game, and they've got to go to the defending national champion in their backyard, which basically should be Athens light,

and it's not even light. So they go into hostile territory against a veteran quarterback that just won a title that knows this style and schematics inside and out because they just ran Dan Land. system defensively and are continuing to do so. And here you go. And then they beat them down. They beat them down thoroughly.

And we just threw Oregon away and shame on us. Shame on us. And this is why this sport and its structure is so cruel and ruthless. It's really cruel and ruthless. Now part of that is what makes it amazing is because the regular season matters and week one matters. You know, when this happens in the NFL, nobody cares. Nobody cares. Like, I'm a Denver Nuggets fan because I grew up in Denver.

And like, I think they lost game one last week, but I don't even really know. Why? Because who cares? Who cares? So that's part of what makes college football amazing is that we do care. And it does matter right from Jump Street. But at the same time, it makes it cruel. It really does. And ruthless in a lot of regards, because we tossed Oregon into the state. the trash heap. And kudos to them. Dan Lannick, Kenny Dillingham, Tosh LaPoy, all those players, Bo Nix, all of you guys, you just kept working. Good on you. This is what football is all about.

And this is what guys like me and fans all over the country we lose sight of at times is that this is still a sport of development. Week in and week out, all your trying to do is get better. And good on Oregon for after that really humiliating loss, week one to Georgia, they just went back to the grindstone and continued to work hard. That was a really good team on Saturday. And they beat a really good team. The Pack 12 is strong this year, much stronger than the ACC. More on that in a moment. But that was a good, good UCLA team and they beat them soundly, held them to field goals, stole possessions with the onside kick.

They were able to score touchdowns, not kick field goals, utilize their great environment. That was a great college football game and a great college football team. So what do we do with week one? Well, I can tell you this. I'm much more apt to give Oregon the benefit of the doubt because of the development that we've seen and the nature in which that first game had to play out, right?

Like, this is a team that I will absolutely, if they are able to win the Pac-12, will argue that they should be in the college football playoff. Because they're looking that good. They're looking that good. Let's just pose it this way. This will be the last way that I'll pose this. They had to go week one in Lannings' first game as a head coach,

Nix's first game as the Oregon quarterback into Georgia territory and play Georgia. Let's just say, sake of argument, Georgia this week, had to go to Oxton Stadium. Now, I'm not arguing Georgia would lose that game. I'm not arguing that, by the way, I'd probably pick Georgia in that game. Hell, I'd just picked UCLA last week like a dummy. But it ain't a 46-point blowout, not even close. Not even close. And even a Georgia fan.

would have to admit that. You'd have to admit that. That team is way better, way better. They're in the catbird seat and what I think is a really good and deep conference. And if they're able to, with only that one loss, win that conference, I think that they should probably go to the playoff. All right, next up, another great story. TCU, let's get it.

And number eight with a bullet is 7 and 0. And just now in the catbird seat, They clearly control their destiny. No question about it. And who's the last time? Can we say that? I just kind of love that I use the term that Timmy B just used, right? Like, love Timmy V.

Timmy, great job on Saturday. Really good game. And you could say that the TCU got fortunate. And they did because Kansas State dealt with those injuries. Adrian Martinez didn't really play. Will Howard goes down. They're down to Rubly, the third string quarterback. And TCU took advantage.

but there's just something about this TCU team. There's something about this TCU team that's easy to root for. That's why I have a smile on my face. There's something about this TCU team that is going to be really tough to beat. It's going to be really tough to beat. And we've seen that play out this month. They're only the third team in the APP era, dating back to 1960, that have beaten four teams that were ranked at the time of the game in one calendar month.

Oklahoma was ranked 18th, they blew them out. Kansas was ranked 19th, they beat them on the road. Oklahoma State was ranked 8th. They come back from double digits and win that game. And Kansas State was ranked 17th, and they were able to come back in that game as well and beat the Wildcats. There's only been two other teams do that. Stanford in 2012, Iowa in 1960.

Right? So they're doing something that has some real historic relevance. and I'm impressed. Come back fashion again. Their offense is really good. It's not going anywhere. That offense is really good. And if you're going to beat TCU,

you're going to have to deal with that offense at some point. And Kansas State, yeah, they didn't get to implore what Iowa would have tried to do, which is steal possessions, minimize possessions, slow the game down. But listen, TCU got them in the end with big plays and Max Duggan. There's my man. I've been waiting. Max Duggan. I have been waiting for this all weekend.

Max Duggan, you are on my Heisman shortlist, and I love every moment of it. Because here's the deal. And I think that you would admit it with me. I don't think you're the most talented quarterback out there. Right? But I don't know of many quarterbacks that are a more, have more competitive. of fortitude than Max Duggan. I love this kid.

I told you about his story last week, right? Never quit. Faced adversity, stared it down, right down the barrel, and he is coming out the other end. And this guy is succeeding, right? He's like Andy Dufrain in that respect. Here he is. Shared off in the rain.

Staring up. Undefeated. This guy is quixing. becoming my favorite player. He, he, you know, I've been trying to write down terms, right? Winner, that's a, that's a term. But that doesn't fully encapsulate it. He's a ball playing Jesse.

That's how a coach would talk about it, right? He's a ball playing Jesse. You get the sense that you decided like, hey, Max, we're going to go and we're going to play a football game, and the ball is going to be a head of lettuce, and there's no grass and there's some broken bottles in the, the parking lot, but we're going to play tackle. He'd just be like, I'd defer to the second half.

He's like, yeah, great. Like, let's go. Late in the game yesterday, late in the game. He's like, putting himself in the mix for first downs, just charging forward. You can tell, getting beat up, getting hit. They were hitting him late. They were hitting him right in the chops,

and he just kept coming back and coming back and coming back. he's one of the most strong-willed competitors I've seen in a long time, a long time. There's a little bit of Tebow in him, right? In that sense, may throw it better down the field. Right? I mean, I think we can all admit that, but man, this is like, don't we love when a guy like that, he's not the tallest, he's not the fastest, he doesn't have the best arm, it's not the most accurate arm, but he's just not going to quit.

Not going to quit. So fine. Get a double-digit lead on TCU at your own peril because here he comes, man. Max Duggan, here he comes. And TCU, there they are, undefeated. I think, I think, this is not official. I think Gus and I are going to get to go down there and call a TCU game. I think.

And I can't wait. And as long as they remain unbeaten, and as long as they remain, on this track to where if they continue to win, they're going to go to the playoffs. Guess what? Max Duggan is going to be on my short list for the Heisman Trophy. Why? Because there is not a more strong-willed competitor in college football this year, and I am here for it. All right.

Last thing, we've got to talk about Clemson, so let's do it. Obviously, made a little change there at quarterback, and, you know, it was just, I mean, it was just one of them days. And DJ's been awesome all year. and, you know, sometimes, sometimes the ball don't go in the basket, you know, the best of the best. Sometimes you go O for five.

You know, sometimes you, you know, Steph Curry goes, you know, three for 22, you know. It just, sometimes it just won't go in. And sometimes you got to give somebody else an opportunity and, you know, really proud of Cade, you know, to throw him in that situation. I mean, like, dabbo, dabble. Like if we were going to say, before hearing that, if I were to tell you, Dabo is going to talk about benching his quarterback, what would he probably say?

That's like verbatim what I would write down. He would make a Steph Curry reference. The greatest shooter in the history of basketball, you know, DJ Owe Young Glele is kind of like that. I mean, just make a baseball comparison. It's easier. It's easier because it's like, hey, you know, some nights in baseball you go 0 for 4. And everyone's like, yeah, you know, that happens. But when it's like, yeah, sometimes Steph Curry, it's like, oh, you know, it's DJ really Steph Curry.

I don't know, man. I don't know. And I know everyone's trying to say the right things and like, oh, it's just one bad day. And, you know, it'll be fine. And we're going to go that direction. But really, is it? I mean, week one, we sat here and we had this conversation. Are they better with Kate Globnick?

Are they better with DJ Owing Ungulele? And listen, DJ has played well at times. At times he's played well. He played great against Wake. He really did. And we committed him for it. But now we're starting to see like this up and down, this up and down. And the problem is that DJ's floor is really low.

It's really low. So like, is it going to be Clubnik coming in? I don't know. I don't know. Should he? I'm not sure. Because here's the one thing I do know about, football coaches. And fans want to say like, oh, well, he's just married to DJ and he's

never going to do that. And he's playing his favorite. College coaches are not that way. If you're better in practice, you'll probably play. Right. Like that's just the way it happens. And these guys get paid too much money. There's too much on the line to go out there and just be like, you know, I like this kid better. So he's going to play over the kid that's playing better in practice. That doesn't happen. That just doesn't happen. So there's a reason DJ is still your starting quarterback. But, but, and I will tell you this, some guys are better in games. And if Clubnick becomes the guy that it's like, man, we didn't see that in practice. But boy, in the games, this is where he excels, then they might have to go that direction. Because the bottom line is, is that they've got a

couple of games, really one coming up, that if DJ plays to his floor, they'll get beat. I think South Carolina could beat them. That leads to my next point and last point on Clemson. Do we really think that Clemson is all that good? I mean, I know they're undefeated. And I still have them up there, you know, I think, I don't know, six or something right now. And I'll honor that.

And I've argued that we should only include conference champions in the playoff. And I've, I will fully stand. by that. But is this team really that good? I have no idea. And the bad part about that is that we won't figure that out until they potentially play a playoff game. You see, I've always argued for every playoff participant to be a conference champion because generally speaking, almost all the time, you're going to get tested at some point in your conference. And in every every conference this year, that's happening as we speak. And it will happen throughout November.

There's no other team in the country with an easier path to the playoff than Clemson. And it's been this way for quite some time, quite some time. This is a team that has gotten the benefit of an eight-game conference schedule, not nine, and a ridiculously weak one-team conference. You know, not, I mean, even Oklahoma had had a tougher gauntlet through the Big 12 to go to the playoff in some of those years than what Clemson has had throughout their tenure, Dabo's tenure in these playoff years. And that's not to tell you to say like they didn't have good teams.

No, of course. They like, they had great teams. They won national championships. So I'm not arguing that they shouldn't go. I'm just saying like, boy, do we really think that they're any good? I don't think so. And we're not going to know until the playoff. And they're going to be there, by the way.

so we're really playing for three spots. And that kind of sucks. It kind of makes me think, man, I wish we had expansion early, right? It makes me wish we had expansion early because there's no part of me that thinks that Clemson could finish any higher than third in the SEC East or the Big Ten East.

Think about that for a moment. Do we really believe Clemson could finish any higher than third in the SEC East or the Big Ten East? Do we really think Clemson is better than Ohio State or Michigan? I don't. Do we think that they're better than Georgia or Tennessee? I don't. I don't. There's no way in the world they would win the Big Ten this year. There's no way in the world they would win the SEC. They might be one of the teams that I would say, yeah, they could maybe win the Big 12, just like any of these good teams in the Big 12. And I don't think that there's

any way that they would win the Pac-12. So what do we do with Clemson? What do we do with Clemson? well, they're going to the playoff, and so now we're fighting for three spots. So good luck to everybody else. Good luck to everybody else. And it might be just absolute chaos coming down the stretch. All right, on Wednesday, I will have thoughts on Texas, that game against Oklahoma State. Boy, we just continue to go through this, don't we? And we all, well, I, I, not all.

I won't lump you in with this. I'll just take the bullet right here. I always fall for it. Always. I always fall for it. Every single year. Hey, what's that over there? Oh, it's Joel falling for Texas. Every year. Texas A&M are who they are every year. More thoughts on that on Wednesday's edition of the Joel Clatt show. Remember, download this, subscribe to this show, and share it with a friend because we're having a lot of fun. I love doing this show, and I appreciate all of you for listening. You can follow the show at Joel Clatt show on any of the social media. You can follow me at Joel Clatt on Twitter. Twitter. Thanks for listening and we will talk to you on Wednesday.