The Joel Klatt Show: A College Football Podcast - Ohio State-Penn State takeaways, Michigan-MSU melee, & Is TCU better than Clemson?

Episode Date: October 31, 2022

FOX Sports’ lead college football analyst Joel Klatt recaps the biggest games and storylines from Week 9 of the college football season. First, Joel shares his main takeaways from calling the Big Noon matchup between Ohio State and Penn State on Saturday. Then, Joel discusses Michigan’s win over Michigan State and the scrum that happened in the tunnel after the game. Next, Joel talks Tennessee and takes a look if they are an actual national championship contender this season. Then, he discusses TCU’s win over West Virginia and compares the Horned Frogs’ resume to Clemson’s, and closes with his thoughts on Ole Miss’ win over Texas A&M and Lane Kiffin’s postgame comments about Jimbo Fisher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This guy today, J.T. Tsui Moraw has come of age. He has turned into or from just a talented player and a great recruit to a game wrecker, a guy they can rely on that is instigating right now. Another short field for their offense. Oh man, what a great Saturday of college football. It was. It was my first opportunity to go to Happy Valley. And it did not disappoint, by the way. Beaver Stadium was electric. And that, was phenomenal. It was a great experience. I loved every moment of it. And I, by the way, I don't get to experience new atmospheres, really ever. And so that was, that was very cool. And Penn State fans, you should be super excited because you were fantastic. Welcome to the Joel Klatt show. I am Joel Klatt. Can't wait to get through everything that we've got to get through. And I'm going to have to move pretty quickly because there's a lot to get through in particular on a week in which we are knocking on the door to those first college

football playoff rankings. So a lot to get into today. Obviously, I'm going to start with reaction to that game that I had. So let's get into it. The Ohio State win over Penn State was, boy, a really good win. And it was very difficult for them for a big stretch of that game. I mean, let's face it, right? For three and a half quarters, that was a struggle. So it begs the question. If I'm an Ohio State fan, what do I think about this? Let's start with Ohio State and Penn State. First down to 10 of the 19th. It intercepted. Wow. J.T. Tuimolo, Ohio has had the game of his life. He deflected a pass that led to an interception. He intercepted a pass. He got a sack. He got a strip sack. And now a pick six. What a game.

So it begs the question, do you feel better? Do you feel worse about your team if you're an Ohio State fan? I think it's a bit of both. I really do. And I know that that's a cop out, but there's reasons behind that. It is a bit of both. So let me start with the good because there's a lot of really good stuff from this win at Penn State for Ohio State. First of all, as I suggested right before, it's a double-digit win on the road in a really tough environment. And I want to start with that environment. This stadium is as advertised. Like I said, and I know it's crazy. When I told people during the course of this trip, like, hey, this is the first time I've actually been here to Penn State. They're like, no, that's not true. And it was true.

And I had built it up, right? You see it on TV and you build up the environment. And I knew that it would be good, but it was even better than I expected. That's the best student section in all of college football. all due respect to some of the other student sections, they were fantastic. And they are loud. And I know it's kind of how the stadium is built. But there were moments in the game that I thought, boy, like, it would be tough for an NFL offense to operate in this noise.

It was that noisy. And so why do I feel good about Ohio's sake? I'm not? Because they face that and come out and win. And that's not easy to do. Okay, so that's one. They were also taken into deep water in being down in that game in the fourth quarter. And they were asked to execute at a ridiculously high level, and then they did. Okay. So this was a great football game for like three and a half quarters. There were plays being made on both sides. A lot was being asked of both sides. Joey Porter Jr. is having to cover Marvin Harrison Jr.

and both quarterbacks are trying to avoid mistakes and make plays down the field. Defences are making plays, making stops. There's third down conversions. There's fourth down conversion. There's swings in the lead. We had lead changes back and forth. It was a great game. The level of execution that the game was requiring from these two teams was really high.

And so the fact that they were able to answer that bell and win the game and really pull away in the fourth quarter is a huge feather in the cap for Ohio State. That's a great win. I don't care what you want to say, right? I don't care what conference you're in or anything. This was a great win for anybody out there. This is still a Penn State team that only has two losses and they're to two of the, what, four best teams in the country, Michigan and Ohio State. So it's a team that rolled down into SEC country and just thumped Auburn by basically the exact same score that Georgia beat Auburn. That's a good Penn State team. And Ohio Ohio State pulled away late, even in the middle of what was an incredible environment, 108,000 strong.

They won the game. They scored 44 points. They scored 40 again. They win by double digits again. So like, you come away with that and you're like, man, even for the areas that they struggled, they were still able to be great. And I got to tell you, there was a stretch where the greatness reached a level that we haven't even seen yet from Ohio State.

in particular this year. I want to take you into the fourth quarter, okay? If I was an Ohio State fan, I would feel like amazing about the stretch in the fourth quarter when their avalanche of points started. You heard me talk about this during the course of the broadcast where they score these, and as Gus put it, punches and punches, points and bunches.

This is what Ohio State does, and they do it almost every single game. They did it to Iowa the week before. They scored four concesses. possessions, and all of a sudden in the fourth quarter against Penn State, that started to happen. I want you to take this moment and time, I remember it vividly in the game. There's 926 left in the game. It's the fourth quarter, and Penn State had just taken a lead 21-16. It was an epic drive. I believe it was 13 plays long. They had a couple of fourth-down conversions. There was a weird sequence

where they missed two field goals, but there were penalties, and then they go for it on fourth-down. they throw a slant pass and get it. Then they finally get in there. They go forward and forth. They end up getting the touchdown, which Eichenberg looks like he's got the tackle. I mean, it was a great drive, terrific college football scene.

And when Ketron Allen dives into the end zone, there's 926 left, Penn State's up 2116, and that place was loud. As loud of a stadium as I've ever been in in my life. I took my headset off and I was like, okay, Like, this is real. That place believed that they were going to beat Ohio State. You got to understand, James Franklin doesn't have a lot of these wins.

And this place, they were feeling it. And the level of execution and play that we saw from Ohio State in that moment was exquisite. It was unbelievable. I still, I'm like, did it happen that quick? Because in real time, I was like, wow, it seems like that happened fast, like a prize fight. And all of a sudden it's like uppercut, you know, right cross another uppercut. And it was like, holy cow, that team that had all that momentum is down on the canvas. There's 926 left in the game, 21-16 Penn State.

And in the next minute and nine seconds of game time, six snaps changed the entire game. And Ohio State was just like, boom, boom, boom. And it was like, I'm sorry, what? And after that minute and nine, it was 30 to 21 Ohio State. So the offense comes out there, and these are the six snaps I'm talking about. They score in three plays. They go right down the field.

Stroud to Marvin Harrison Jr., beautiful in-cut, bam. Then he just kind of drops it down, nondescript little curl route to a mecca, Abuka. Nice play. Then they get up to the line of scrimmage quickly, hand the ball off to Trayvion and Henderson, and they finally get them sealed up. in the run front and he's gone. Gone. Three plays. Boom, boom, boom. Touchdown. It's like, ooh, okay. Well, that was fast. Okay. Well, now Penn State's going to have to answer. And they have

all day long, right? Like, that's the style of game that we've been in, but this was easily the best drive that we've seen from either team. So then you go back out there and first down for Penn State, yeah, not bad. Second down for Penn State, JT Tuimolo, shoves the tackle into Clifford's lap, the ball out and recovers the fumble. That's five snaps. Next play. Beautiful play call. They clear out his own, caged over over the middle, he breaks three tackles,

touchdown. Minute and nine seconds, 30 to 21. Holy cow. That's how quickly it happens with Ohio State because of the talent that they have, yes, but it's also just the level of play that they can go to. See, all game long, they've been playing basically a big. B minus game for them. Penn State's been playing like an A-A-a-minus game for them.

And that's what it's taking for Penn State to keep up with Ohio State. And then all of a sudden, Ohio State went from playing a-minae game to playing an A-minus or A game. And it was just like, boom. And that's what's so impressive. Okay. And it happened the week before against Iowa. And now it happens on the road in a great environment against Penn State, where the seventh gear or eighth gear that Ohio State has, Nobody else can really match that.

I don't know, there's very few teams that I think around the country that can match that. Maybe Tennessee can match that. Maybe Georgia can match that. Maybe Alabama can match that. And then we'll see if Michigan can match that later in November when those two tangle. It was as impressive as I can possibly explain. In particular, when you have to understand now, you may have been at home watching it. I was in the building.

I heard what the building sounded like at the 9-20. Mark after the touchdown. So to execute that way and to take your game to that level, I got to tell you was unbelievable. The other thing that I feel great about if I'm an Ohio State fan is the fact that these two young stars just went to a totally different level than what we've seen. And I'm speaking of Marvin Harrison Jr. and JT. Tuimolo-Wao.

Those two players all of a sudden became great players right before our eyes. The week before against Iowa, I had told the world, really, that, hey, I think Marvin Harrison's going to be the best wide receiver in the NFL, like 2026, 2027. Still feel that way. Saturday during the game, it finally hits me, and I watch a lot of tape and just other teams, and he's the best receiver in college football. And that's not a knock to anybody else. Marvin Harrison, Jr. is the best receiver in college football. This guy is an unbelievable route runner. He's very clean, creates separation. He catches the ball really well, as sure-handed as anybody out there. And the best part about him is that even though he can create

separation and does often, he catches the ball in contested areas as well as anybody out there. And when they needed a play for the majority of the game, they had to go to number 18 and he delivered. He was phenomenal in that game, whether it was third downs, you know, the slant pass I'm thinking about, the play to start that six play avalanche, if you will, that end cut. And he's working against Joey Porter Jr., who I think is probably going to be a first round corner. Right. Like these are tough catches and tough throws that C.J. Stroud was making. These were not easy throws, okay? This was not throwing on air.

This was not the 130th ranked pass defense out there. like Penn State's really good in the secondary. They challenge you. They create small windows. And that's why I was so impressed with the way Harrison was delivering and the way Stroud was delivering. Then you go to the defensive side and all of a sudden there's this JT Tuoimo, O'Oao.

And I knew he was really good. I've watched him practice several times. I watched him play last year and practiced in the spring. Now I've seen him practice this fall and now seen him play this fall. And I knew he was talented and I knew he was developing. But JT. Tuoie Molo is taking himself to a play. where he is going to be in the running for Big Ten defensive player of the year, right? Like, how many, well, let's put it to you this way.

I've never seen a football game where a defensive end dominated to that degree. I've seen them dominate before. I saw Chase Young dominate Wisconsin in my career. The 2019 game. I've seen the Bosa brothers dominate. I've seen a lot of great performances. I remember calling early in my career in Dominican Zoo, who was an unbelievable defensive lineman.

None of them did what Tui Moloow did on Saturday. None of them. This performance was as good of a performance as I've ever seen. And I think that this guy is now going to be in the running for not just Big Ten defensive player of the year, but maybe some national awards after what he did. This was one of those stages and games that I will never forget forever and ever. First of all, he tips the ball in the first series that creates the interception. He drops into coverage and defensive back style dives for an interception himself.

He causes the sack fumble, recovers it himself, jumps up, gets a pick on a little tunnel screen, takes it back, pick six, himself. He had other tackles for loss. I mean, it was, he was a game wrecker, and I was thoroughly impressed with JT Tu and Moloow. These two guys are stars. I believe that they are the two best players on the team along with C.J. Stroud. And I don't know if it's all that close. And the fact that they went there and they needed to play that well and did and delivered was pretty

superhuman. And I would be really happy if I was an Ohio State fan. Okay. Where do I feel worse now? Why is it both, Joel? Well, let me tell you why. I also feel worse. because the offensive line did not play well enough.

So both can be true. I can be thoroughly impressed with the way that Ohio State elevated their game when they needed to. But the fact remains is that they were playing that B-B-minus game to begin with, right, for the three and a half quarters that put them in that deficit with 926 left. Why were they in that deficit? Why was it so difficult? Because the offensive line didn't play very well. and this offensive line now has a pattern of not playing well.

So I've seen eight straight quarters of Ohio State football. I've called eight straight quarters of Ohio State football. For seven of those quarters, it was anemic trying to run the football. And I know Iowa is a good defense, so I want to give Iowa some credit, and their defensive line does a good job. And by the way, Penn State played really well defensively for the majority of that game until the end giving up some of those scores. But for seven quarters, Ohio State's offensive line has not played anywhere close to as well as they're going to need to play to win a national championship.

They averaged 2.1 yards per carry over those seven quarters, the four with Iowa and then the first three with Penn State. 2.1. That's 49 attempts. That's not a small sample size. Okay. So that's that is a struggle. And the struggle is real. And the problem is, is that you can't just say, well, they were really great defenses. You can get away with that with Iowa, but you can't with Penn State. I know Penn State played better, but the problem is, what was it? Two, three weeks ago, we saw your rival. Michigan put up 418 yards on that defense on the ground. So you can't and you don't have the excuse of like, well, Penn State's great up front.

No, I'm sorry. Not when we saw Blake Horm and Donovan Edwards do what they did. to this Penn State team. So for seven quarters, Ohio State, 2.1 yards per carry on 49 attempts, that's not going to cut it. And in fact, if they continue to play that way and they don't get better, I'm willing to lay a pretty hefty statement, they will not win a national championship if their offensive line plays like they did

in those seven quarters. They can't. They can't. Well, why can't they? Because, Joel, I just saw him put up 54 with their O line playing that way. and then 44 against Penn State, here's the problem. In order to win a national championship, you're going to have to do it against Georgia, potentially,

Michigan down the road, maybe Tennessee, maybe Alabama. And those teams will not let you off the hook like Iowa and Penn State did. Okay, see, those two teams, Iowa does not have a second gear offensively. So that was always going to be an Ohio State win. Penn State didn't have fifth gear to try to match Ohio State. So Ohio State always had kind of the ace up their sleeve. Like, we can go a step higher.

Well, what happens when they play a team that also can go a step higher? They better play a complementary style of football on the offensive side. You see, two things happen when you're not able to run the football. And these are detrimental to the way that they play. One is you don't have the benefit of play action pass. And this is where Ohio State really hurts people as in the play action pass. This is where they create their explosive plays. This is where they put defenders in conflict, create explosive plays, and score in bunches.

This is how they do it. How do they score quickly on four and five and six plays? Play action pass. How do you play action pass? You run the ball successfully, in particular on first down. The other thing not being able to run does is it puts you an obvious pass. situations. And the statistics, by the way, just based on last Saturday alone, are stark in this regard. They faced 12 first downs, or excuse me, I'm sorry, third downs at Penn State, 12 of them.

Six of those. So half of the third downs that they faced were of 10 plus yards. The average yards to go on third down Saturday against Penn State was 8.7. That is a direct reflection of the lack of running game and the lack of quality offensive line play. That puts way too much stress on your passing game. It puts way too much stress on C.J. Stroud, Marvin Harrison, Jr., Ryan Day, the offensive play caller. You can't play like that. It's so rare to get put into a situation where you have to execute in that environment and

you do. Now, that's partly why I feel so good about the way that they played because they were put in that environment and they did play really well. But you can't expect to do that time over time, game over game. And in particular when you're facing an opponent that could potentially build a 2, 3, 4 possession lead on you if you're playing really poorly in your offensive line in the first three quarters. So do I feel better or I feel worse about Ohio State? Both.

I feel unbelievable about the fact that it was a great win in a tough environment. I feel great about the fact that we developed really solid and quality young stars. but I also feel really, really bad about that offensive line. Because that's got to get corrected. Ohio State will not win a national championship if they play that way on the offensive line. So they've got three games to get better. You look at that schedule and the freight train is headed to that matchup against Michigan. They've got three games to get better.

That's the entire goal of the next month for Ohio State is to fix the offensive line. If they don't, I don't know how far they can go. obviously they're ridiculously talented and can play offense with anybody in the country, in particular throwing the ball, or more specifically. Their defense is really good in developing a star at defensive end, but I just can't tell you that they're going to win a national title with that type of O-line play. All right. Next team up.

Let's go. Yeah, two of our players were a, assaulted. I saw the Cs saw the one video it's the 10 on one. It's pretty pretty pretty pretty bad. I'm going to let our athletic director Ward manual address it with the authorities. I mean what what a what a what a what a terrible occurrence right just totally marred what is you know supposed to be a great game and a really fun game. Rivalry games are supposed to be fun. And heated, yes, I get it. Like, they're supposed to be heated. And by the way, I don't care if players are chippy on the field or

before the game, you know, and I'm not talking about fighting. I'm just saying chippy. Like, I understand what players go through. And that being said, what happened on Saturday night was totally uncalled for at Michigan Stadium. Totally uncalled for. So let's get into it. Okay. So I'm not going to get into specific players or this or that or what I think should or shouldn't happen to them specifically. Let's just talk about the altercation, where it happened, and where we should go from here. Okay? So let's do that. Let's start with the tunnel.

I've heard people say like, well, it's the stadium's issue and it's the single tunnel at Michigan Stadium. And that's the problem. Well, you know what? I don't buy that. It played football in that stadium for, what, 95 years? There have been hundreds of football games played there throughout the many decades. And there are very few, very few instances of altercations or anything happening. There have been some, right?

Like, I'm not going to sit here and be like, this was out of the blue. Listen, I've been there. I've been at games and called games. And Jenny Taft has seen like Ohio State and Michigan. get into it and have a jawing match in the tunnel. Jim Harbaugh and James Franklin recently have gotten into kind of a war of words through the press about potentially something that happened an altercation in the tunnel. And now obviously this one, which is, looks really bad, right?

Looks looks really bad. How about we start realizing that Michigan's probably not going to get into a fistfight with Yukon, but when Ohio State or Penn State or Michigan State come into town, like, maybe we should have some more security up there. Like what was striking to me in those videos, and you've seen them online, what was striking to me in those videos is like, it was just like regular support staff that was just walking up to the locker room with the guys. Like there was no security there.

So how about we have some extra security on the games that we know there could be some heated emotions? Penn State, Michigan State, Ohio State. I don't know, like put a couple of troopers up there, right? I highly doubt that this thing gets the way that it does if there's troopers in the tunnel. If there's a rope that is separating one side of the tunnel from the other and you've got to go down your side, like little things like that. So I do think that there are some changes that they can do procedurally on location, in particular in these specific games. because like I said, hey, when Hawaii is rolling in, like, I don't think they're throwing fists.

Right? Like, this isn't a problem all the time. So when it could get to this point, like, how about we have some procedures in place? All right. Next, next I want to talk about from a player's perspective. Okay, so that's the location. And I think that they can fix some of those procedures. And by the way, I think that they will. But if I'm on one of those teams, how do I feel right now? Well, really frustrated. And I don't want to be like the old, you know, middle-aged guy who used to play who's like, well, when I played, no, that's not what I'm trying to do. What I am trying to think about is those young men that went out there and laid it on the line,

win or lose, played their hearts out and lost. it takes away from everything those guys are trying to do. Both sides. Both sides. If I'm a Michigan player, I'm really frustrated because this game should have been about the fact that we went out there and really played well. I know they settled for too many field goals, but who cares?

This should be about the fact that over the last five games, Blake Corum's the leading rusher in the country. And he is pressing towards a Heisman candidate. into November. That's what it should be about from Michigan's side. But no, now we can't celebrate, we can't enjoy this victory, which should mean a lot to our program, we're undefeated. We have a chance to beat Michigan State and Ohio State for the first time since, I don't know, like the early 2000s. And no, now we're mired in this, embroiled in this, this controversy now. So that's a frustrating thing from the Michigan side. It's taking away from the achievement on the field,

which is what this is all about. And from the Michigan State side, boy, I am really frustrated that this happened, and probably with some of my own teammates. And the reason is is because the actions of a few have now painted the hole with a broad brush. Now everybody's going to be coming in with that microscope and talking about culture, talking about discipline, wondering about transfers. Is that why this is happening? Is Mel Tucker not disciplined?

what's going on at Michigan State. So all of a sudden, you have entered into the equation, all the distractions that everybody is always trying to keep out. So as a teammate, I would be furious about that. Don't paint me with that brush. The actions of a few are not representative of the whole. I know a lot of those Michigan State players. I've covered them over the years.

Those are really good young men. I know Mel Tucker. Yeah, was I thrilled that he left Colorado as an alum? No. did I understand? Absolutely. Right? Like look at the opportunity that he got. I know the type of coach that he is. I know that he is hard-nosed. I know some of his assistant coaches. Know them well. In fact, I played for one of them. And now these guys are going to have to go through a period of time where all of us media members are going to walk in and be like, well, what's your culture

like? That's distracting and it's frustrating as a teammate. And I feel bad for those kids because I know what it's like to be on a team and be in a program that gets painted with a brush that's broad and unfair. And I feel like that's going to start happening to Michigan State. And then the last thing that I would say on this is like, I just want this to run its course and its natural progression. I don't really want to hear from the coaches and their feelings. I don't really want to hear from the players either. I want this thing to run its natural course through the investigation. It is, by the way, I should note that late last night on Sunday, there was some news that popped up about the investigation that was ongoing. In fact, Mel Tucker, I think put out a statement. Michigan State put out a statement. It essentially said that four players for Sparty, four Michigan State players, have been suspended indefinitely. There was some language about cooperating fully with law enforcement and their investigation, the Big Ten Conference, the administration, the administration, the administration,

from both schools, so everyone's involved. And what I want is for this to run its proper course. Let's let, if law enforcement, if, let's just put it this way, if and because law enforcement is involved, let's all take a step back and let them do their job. Let them do their job because what I want is for this to end justly so that we can get back to the business of celebrating college football and the players playing it. That's what I want. All right, next up.

Second down and six. Hooker, back to throw. Fires long down the field. There's high and he's got it to the 20 to the checkerboards. Touchdown. Bombs away, Tennessee. Boy, Tennessee housed Kentucky. And I don't know how good Kentucky is, but, you know, Tennessee put it on them.

And I don't know if you all noticed, but I moved Tennessee to my number one spot. in my rankings over the weekend. Tweeted that out, I believe that was Sunday morning. And I want to be clear on this. It wasn't because they were flashier or anything along those lines. I just think that to this point, they've earned the number one spot. They have more quality wins now, in particular because they got that Kentucky win. They handled LSU in Death Valley.

They beat Alabama. Now they've beaten Kentucky, and they are really good. They've got a great quarterback in Hendon Hooker. They're the number one scoring offense and total offense in America. They're the number two passing offense in America. They've got great wide receivers, and they've earned that spot. So that's why I put them at number one. It wasn't because Ohio State didn't have the lead in the fourth quarter against Penn State

or the style of game that played. Because like I told you already earlier, there's a lot to be impressed with from Ohio States win against Penn State on the road. And was it better than the win over Kentucky? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. But to this point, I think that the resume wins out. And I also believe that the College Football Playoff Committee on Tuesday night is going to put Tennessee at number one. So Tennessee is going to be number one for me. Now, having said that, I still believe that Tennessee is flawed. There is an Achilles heel. I talked about the offensive line for Ohio State. having to play better in order to be a national champion caliber offensive line and team for Ohio State?

Well, there are flaws for Tennessee as well, and they're mainly on the defensive side. I don't think you can just whistle past the graveyard when it comes to the defense for the volunteers. So they're now 83rd in the country in total defense. And I think more specifically, if you want a better, more accurate picture of what they are as a defense, they're 40th in the country in yards per play. Okay, and I think that that's a more accurate description. Now, is that terrible? No, I don't think it's terrible.

I'm not telling you that they're the worst defense out there, but it's also not close to what we see in a yards per play variety from teams like Georgia, teams like Alabama, teams like Michigan, teams like Ohio State. And those are the teams that you would likely have to go through, and we know they're going to have to go through one of them this week on the road at Georgia in order to potentially win a championship, whether it's in your conference or a national championship. So I still have my questions, even though I put them number

one, about whether they are national championship caliber. And based on these numbers, they're not. So what has to change for them, in my mind, to become real national title contenders, like a real threat to take home the national championship? Well, one of two things has to happen. And I've talked about this prior on this podcast. One of the things that could happen is Hendon Hooker goes full Joe Burrow. Okay? You go full Joe Burrow and you're just like,

the offense takes off. And Hendon Hooker becomes a meteoric rise to the Heisman Trophy, 60 touchdowns, 5,600 yards, 76%. And it's like, you can't defend him. Okay. Then it's like you tip your cap and you say, yes. then that guy can carry you to a national championship. But even then, by the way,

and Hooker's not playing Joe Burrow, 2019 level. He's playing great, and he's certainly in the race for the Heisman Trophy, but not that level. That's some of the best quarterback play that we've ever seen in college football history. And it took that level of play for a team to go and win, you know, what was it, 15 and O

and win the national championship, in part because that defense wasn't great. And by the way, that defense was better than this Tennessee defense. That's an issue. That's an issue. Tennessee, again, 40th in yards per play. That LSU defense, 30th in yards per play.

It's not a huge difference, but it's there. And I think that we would all agree that that LSU offense was better than what Tennessee's is. No, we'll see. And what's interesting to me is that we're going to find out right now. So can Hooker take his game to the next level? Can he become Joe Burrow of 2019? Well, when did Joe Burrow of 2019 become that player?

It's when they beat Alabama on the road in early November in their ninth game in a 1-versus-2 AP poll matchup. They beat that Tide team, and from then on, he became just like a rocket ship, and that team's confidence level increased, and it went to 10, if you will, or 100. And that's exactly the opportunity in front of Tennessee this week. they're going to face Georgia. It's on the road, just like LSU at Bama.

It's a really good Georgia team with a good defense, just like that Bama team. And Hooker's going to have that ability. So there's a lot of things that are reminiscent of that year, in particular for this comparison. But I do think even if Hooker goes to that level, we do need to see Tennessee's defense improve just a little bit. One last thing that I would say on that is that you,

You've heard me now take two teams that are my top two teams in the country and question their ability to win the national championship today on this podcast. And it had me thinking, like, is my level too high? Is my bar of expectation too high for Ohio State and their offensive line, for Tennessee and their defense? It might be. Okay. So I might be skewed, and I just want to let you guys know that, because think about it. Think of the run of national champions. we've had. We have had Trevor Lawrence a historically great prospect. We had the 2019 LSU team. They went 15 in O with Joe Burrow who played better than we've ever seen. Then we saw an offense that was even better than the LSU offense the next year when BAML won in the COVID

year with Devante Smith and Mack Jones and Najee Harris. They won every single national awards you could win on offense just within those 11 players. You know? It's O line, wide receiver, running back. I mean, they had it all. Then last year, we had a defense in Georgia that had six guys drafted off of it. Right. Like, this is unusual stuff. So the caliber of the national champion of the last four champions has been really high.

And I will say this, I'm measuring all of these teams against that bar. And I don't know if any one of these teams is going to require another team to go to that level. to win this year. So I'm saying Ohio State's got to improve on the O line. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. I'm saying Tennessee's defense has to improve. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. But I'm saying right now, based on what we've seen in the last four champions, I think that they might have to go to that level. So Tennessee, they've got to improve defensively just a little bit. And then Hendon Hooker is going to have to go to another level. Okay, next couple of subjects. And these will be quicker. Next up. The horn frogs come away with a victory. Clark gets the interception

Oh, that one. The frogs have survived in Morgantown here today. So TCU just continues to win, and I can't wait. And by the way, I'm headed down to Fort Worth. Gus, Jenny and I, the Big Noon kickoff crew, we're all headed down to Fort Worth. And TCU rises in my poll. They're 8-0 now. They win on the road at West Virginia.

And it's not a great win, but whatever. Listen, I moved TCU up because they've earned it. I moved them up in their rankings. and I move them ahead of Clemson and ahead of Alabama because they deserve to be there. Their resumes are better than Alabama or Clemson at this point. So I put them at five because they deserve it. If you go to some of those metrics that you can see on some of those websites, you'll see like the strength of record number.

Well, guess what? TCU's strength of record is three, Clemson's four. So they're better in that. Strength of schedule. TCU's strength of schedule 63. Clemsons 72. Like they have a better resume. The Big 12 this year is much more difficult than the ACC is this year.

And I think that that was laid bare this last weekend when Notre Dame handled Syracuse and Wake lost to Louisville. So now all of a sudden you look up and it's like TCU has two wins on their resume that are far better than any win Clemson has. And that's the Kansas State win and the Oklahoma State win. And the Kansas State win, even after last weekend, looks even better. The last thing that I would say about TCU is, yes, they've earned it. And they just have a better quarterback right now. than Clemson. Not than Alabama, but Alabama's lost the game. So I'm fine with TCU above Alabama because of the loss. Max Duggan is playing way better than DJU. Max Duggan is playing well enough to be involved in the conversation for the Heisman Trophy.

And for me, he is in that conversation. He has been really good this year since he came into the starting lineup. Remember, he didn't win the starting job. They gave it to Chandler Morris. for their opening game. And then that was against Colorado. It was a game I was actually at. And Chandler Morris goes down and gets injured. And Max Duggan comes in, and he's the quarterback. And since then, since he became the starting quarterback,

only C.J. Stroud has thrown more touchdowns than Max Duggan. Okay? So, like, they've got one of the best offenses in America. Their resume is better than Clemson. And so I ranked them ahead of class. Clemson. They're number five this week for me, and I'm headed to Fort Worth for that game against Texas Tech, and I can't wait. I can't wait to get down there. All right, last up. Yeah, I mean, I don't give you a coach speak. So yeah, that's real. I mean, most good

to say you know, say no, but yeah, that's real. And someone attacks you personally and, you know, calls you and a good buddy, Coach Saving, they were both clowns. You know, you take that personal. So, glad we won. I guess I can be a clown for Halloween now. Oh my gosh, this guy's the national treasure. Like I, I, I, full disclosure, I like Lane personally a lot as well. And this guy is just a beauty. I mean, you talk about a guy that just doesn't care. Lane Kiffin.

Lane Kiffin, everybody. And his beef with Jimbo is, it's so good. It's so good. Jimbo called Lane a clown So now Lane is basically throwing the clown mantra back at him And the War of Words and just all weekend What I love about Lane is that one, his delivery

He's just so smooth in his delivery He's not all worked up about it, right? He's like laid back And he's just kind of cool about it You know, he's asked about the Taylor Swift album What's your favorite song? Karma And it's like, oh, okay, that's a shot across the ball The Joker Kossi.

I'm going to borrow Jimbo's Joker costume. He said earlier this week, we were outbid for DJ Durkin, which happens with that program a lot. I mean, that's just like, that's an amazing line. Amazing line. By the way, DJ Durkin rolls in as a defensive coordinator for A&M. And all Ole Miss does is roll, you know, what a 390 yards on the ground. And then Lane again takes a shot of that.

Yeah, it's pretty good against a bunch of five stars. The last thing I'll say on this, like, I'm not just going to be like, yeah, Lane's hilarious, this or that. One, I think Ole Miss is a good team, and they bounce back and they got the win. I don't know how good they are. Obviously, the loss to LSU is concerning, and I don't think Texas A&M is very good at all, but at least Ole Miss gets the win. So they roll out of there with a W.

And then when you really take a step back and you look at Jimbo Fisher and his beef with both Nick Sabin and Lane Kiffin. Now, should those guys be throwing stuff out about Jimbo's pro You can argue yes or no. I typically think like, no. If you don't have anything nice to say about a different program in particular or another head coach, just don't say it at all. Having said that, it was very telling to me how much Jimbo lashed out. And you know what it reminded me of? You know when you and your buddies find the perfect nickname for one of your friends? And they get so mad initially. And you're like, oh, that makes it even. more perfect because it's true, right? Like, that's exactly what's going on. Jimbo gets so mad when people call them out for the things that are clearly going on at Texas A&M.

So, like, how about you stop getting mad, right? Like, at some point, you just got to sit there and you just got to wear it. I think Brian Kelly did that. He stepped back from the limelight and he just said, like, okay, I'm going to go back to coaching football and stop throwing videos out there of fake accents and dancing with recruits and everything. Guess what? LSU, much better team. Lane Kiffen to some degree. By the way, he's kind of stepped back. He's not as forward as he used to be and out in the media as he used to be. Now, he played this beautifully this week, but he's just gone about getting his team better. Jimbo was so

up in arms all summer about all this other stuff and what's being said about him and his program, and he probably just needs to go back and coach his team. Because his team is not very, good and they're probably not going to go to a bowl game. And that's a team that should be a lot better than they are. Let's just kind of leave it at that. All right, that's going to do it for tonight's show. I want you to prepare you because now we're getting into CFP season. So that means that Wednesday episode on Tuesday night, I will be recording a full immediate reaction podcast to the college football playoff rankings. So the second release this week will be all college football playoff rankings related. I can't wait to see what they do, what they give us.

We'll try to dissect it, see what they're valuing, see what they're not valuing, and try to project forward on what we might see in a final four in that playoff scenario. I also want to always look at these playoff rankings in the light of what is to come. And so we will have some discussion of what a 12-team playoff would look like based on the rankings. that they give us on Tuesday night. So that's coming up on Tuesday. All right. Thank you for listening, folks.

Remember, subscribe to the show, share it with a friend, rate us, review us. And again, I can't thank you enough for listening. I'm having a blast doing this. You can follow me on social media at Joel Clatt on Twitter. At Joel underscore Clad on Instagram. You can follow this show all over social media at Joel Clat Show. Come back on Wednesday, full college football playoff rankings. Recap show coming up then.