The Joel Klatt Show: A College Football Podcast - Todd McShay on Jeremiyah Love, Ohio State's defenders & the Ty Simpson vs Fernando Mendoza debate

Episode Date: April 6, 2026

NFL draft analyst Todd McShay joins FOX Sports’ lead college football analyst Joel Klatt to discuss the top players in the upcoming NFL Draft. They discuss why Jeremiyah Love is at the top of McShay’s big board and debate whether this is the best group of defenders to come out of Ohio State. They analyze how big the gap is between quarterbacks Fernando Mendoza and Ty Simpson and what is special about each. Lastly, Todd McShay shares the player-to-location match he is rooting for most in this year’s NFL Draft. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Find me the flaws, I guess. He is everything that you look for. Just about every team I talk to in the league, he's first, second, and third guy on their board right now. These guys will be to your point, not just your best players on defense. They're going to be the best people in your organization. I don't know that I'd pass on Sunny Stiles.

When I talk to him about football, it's like I'm sitting across from Kirk Cousins. Just an absolute and the best possible way, football nerd. is why we love college football. And so here he is one of my favorites, a good friend and also a guy I just really respect in this industry. And in particular when we get to the draft process, Todd McShay joins the show. What's going on, Todd? How you doing, man?

Good to see you, man. Normally don't get to talk this time of year. So it's exciting. Everything good? Yeah. Everything is going really well. Can't wait for this draft. We were just talking before we jumped on.

Kind of a busy month. You know, I've got UFL starting and everything. then the draft is we're in the full swing of things. And like I said, you're one of the guys that I go to, not being a scout by trade. Your analysis has always been spot on. So I want to jump in with you right off the top. And your top 100, which you can, by the way, get everybody, the ringer.com slash McShay really good job. They do an awesome job. It's interactive. You can go into each player. They got heat maps in terms of traits and everything. So it's really good stuff. I suggest you go over there.

Let's start at the top. Okay, so you're number one player and a guy that I really love. I believe he's my number two player, Jeremiah Love. The conversation is always about running backs and value and this and that. Right. What do you really like about Jeremiah Love? And then, you know, after that, let's get into kind of the value and where you see him going and how high he could potentially go. You know, I've never, this is year 26 doing this.

I'm aging myself. But I've never had a running back number one overall. And this year's, it's going to be the exception. We've had Sequin Barclay. We've had Leonard Fournett and Christian McCaffrey that one year. We had Ashton Jinty. I'm not saying his grade is the highest grade I've ever given to a running back because it's not, but it's right there.

And when you're going to be talked about in this regard. And forget my rank. and talking to NFL teams, like the lowest I've heard is they have him at like three on their board, on a team's board. So he's one of the best three, if not the best player in the entire draft. And you can, what do you want from a running back in order to value him there? Obviously the running skills. It's the instincts.

It's like that cut he just made, like get out of here, you know? It's the ability to stop and start. It's the contact balance. It's having a sense of the cut. back lanes, it's almost like a six sense with the vision. Then you have to elevate it to, and you see in this play that, you know, one of many plays where he breaks off a long run. That speed is not critical. It certainly isn't. You know, Emmett Smith is a great example at running back, right? But when you have it, it adds another element to your game. And especially if you can

catch the football, which he does really well. And then even watching him on tape and then at the combine, just like running routes and his ability. He is so oily in his hips and the ability to get in and out of breaks. And like that's an added element. And so he's got to be complete. And by the way, he was okay in pass protection in 2024. You can tell that was a point of emphasis in the offseason. He's facing up guys and sticking his face in the fan.

And I just find me the flaws, I guess, you know. And certainly you always worry about running backs in the durs. ability and you know kind of managing that load and and that will be for the NFL team that drafts him to kind of figure out what's what is best for him but I just he is everything that you look for now yeah you get into the question that you alluded to like if you draft him in the top five or I think what did I look recently if you drafted him at four or five he's like the eighth highest paid running back in the league right now right and so there is right away Joel there's There's a real economics discussion that you have to have about, okay, he's the eighth highest paid running back.

What if I draft, I don't know, David Bailey, edge rusher, cornerback, Monsour Delane. What if I draft, you know, one of these other edge rushers, Ruben Bain, they're like, I don't know, 40th or whatever that number is in terms of what you're paying them. And you're getting, forget about quarterback. That's the greatest steal in all of the sports. is if you hit on a quarterback coming out as a rookie, and you only have to pay on that rookie scale. So it's why we're looking at teams like Arizona that needs a running back. Tennessee, they're picking at three, Tennessee at four.

Giants, it depends on Scatibu and what his health is, but certainly he would provide an upgrade and create an attack there with John Harbaugh that now all of a sudden you get Jeremiah Love, Scataboo, and Tyrone Tracy. with a quarterback who can run as well in Jackson Dart. But I think it's why we're all looking and saying maybe he falls to seven in Washington because he is a running back and because of the economics of it. But again, just about every team I talk to in the league, he's first, second, and in one case, third guy on their board right now.

I couldn't agree more. I have him to Tennessee. And, you know, you get into. When you love to see that, man, with dayball, offensive coordinator. and put him in the backfield of Cam Ward. I would love that. And for me, you know, I think you can get away with even the economics you were talking about,

but certainly even just the value up top, even inside of the top five, when you've got a guy that is not just a running back. And to me, he reminds me or can potentially become, maybe not McCaffrey. McCaffrey is probably like a top six wide receiver in the league, but certainly a guy that can be a threat out of the backfield, a Jemir Gibbs and so, you know, so on.

Bejohn. To me, that's where the, yeah, Bejon is that way as well. And those are the guys that then you're like, okay, I'm not just paying him to be a running back. He's really contributing. I think he could catch 40 passes in a season and would be just fine. And then maybe the economics work out in particular way up at the top. I love him.

I love his mentality. everything that you were just talking about. And he reminded me in his past protection, because you're right, it wasn't outstanding before this last year. But now it's much better. And in that regard, it reminded me a ton of last year's evaluation of Trayvion Henderson. And I'm sure you'll remember that he wasn't a great pass protector. And then all of a sudden last year,

he was the best past protector at the running back position in the draft because he would just sit in there and absolutely stone those lines. linebackers. And Love certainly has that type of trajectory in his film from a year ago. All right. Now I would love to, and we'll get into quarterbacks. Don't worry, everyone. And I know we'll always talk about quarterbacks. I would love to hear where you think that the depth resides in this draft. Is there a position group that you're really excited about? And in particular, just from a numbers perspective, there are a lot of, you know, X. For me, I think there's a lot of edge rushers.

But for you, where do you go there? Yeah, I'm going to agree with you. It's edge. I think second behind that would be wide receiver, and we can get to that in a minute. I think the wide receivers will last a little bit longer than the end. Here's the deal with this year's draft, right? It's a weird deal because we've got Jeremiah Love,

we just talked about it running back. Caleb Downs, in no particular order. Sunny Stiles, a linebacker, downs at safety. a guard in Benga, Yuwane from Penn State. And I feel like I'm missing. But we got an off ball linebacker, a running back, a safety, a guard, four of the best players in this entire draft, okay? And so, and Arvel Reese is going to be an edge rusher,

but he was an off ball linebacker. So you look at this, the top of this draft, and that part of it is different than normal. It's this balance of, do I pass? And talking to general managers, guy one of 30, seats, guys making the decision. When you talk to them at the combine, it's, you don't pass up on a Hall of Famer. You know, you can't go broke, taking the best player in the, but then you get to the draft

and it's like, yeah, but man, look at what I, I can get an edge rusher for that price, or I can get a, right, you know what I mean? And it's so it changes. And so there's that element of this draft. Then the other element is you get these offensive tackles who are all really good. like Francis Maui Noah from Miami is a big physical better athlete than people want to say right tackle he's a right tackle you've got you get Spencer Fano from Utah and Caleb Lomu but Fano is is a you know top 10 top 15 pick he played right tackle played 11 starts a few years back at left tackle but he's played right tackle the last two years and he's got these short arms 31 and a quarter inch arms and that's got people scared which by the way, grew from the combine to the pro day and now 30, 31, or 32, I should say. Yeah, they're short, shorter arms.

So there's a concern with that. You've got Caden Proctor, who's in Alabama, physically just everything you look for, but the tape is up and down. Monroe Freeling, just 18 starts at Georgia. Tape is up and down, but he's the most physically gifted of all these guys. They're all going to go. There's going to be seven offensive tackles, I believe, that go in the first round, absolutely six with Max Ionachor, who's an awesome story at Arizona State, came over to America

at 13 years old, basketball, soccer player, decided to play because an AAU basketball coach told him, you know, you just, you look like a football player, got an opportunity to play at East L.A. Community College. Fresno State's offensive line coach likes them, is recruiting him to Fresno. He gets the job. Kenny Dillingham brings him over from Fresno, and he brings Max with him. Start six games. Doesn't know. know what he's doing in Arizona State takes his lumps. And now all of a sudden we're talking about him as a first round pick. So crazy. I know I'm long-winded on all of this, but those tackles are going to go. And I think the edge rushers will go. And we've got those other, the six players, a lot of

them in positions that aren't elite spots. Now you start to run out of, you run out of real estate in the first round, right? With Mendoza thrown in there, maybe a Ty Simpson. So these wide receivers that we're talking about in that mid-late first-round range, I think we'll get bumped back a little bit, and part of it will be because of this edge group. Because the shelf drops off at offensive tackle more so than any other position, but it drops off a little bit at edge, too. But the guys you can get in the first round,

I mean, we know about Rvel Reese and the conversion he's making from off-ball linebacker. David Bailey's the best pure pass rusher. Not great versus the run, but you get paid to get to the quarterback coming out of Texas Tech. Then you got Ruben Bain, yes, the short arms. And the shortest arms of anyone drafted in the first round in 20 years. And there's never been a double-digit sack guy in the league with his arm length, or in 20 years at least, going back in what we were able to uncover. But did you watch his tape in the college football playoff? And then you get Caldric Falk, who's 20 years old and

like has all the potential in the world. And his production wasn't great, but his tapes a lot of fun to watch because he plays his ass off and he fights and he's dominant versus the run. And then Cassius Howell, I think he's the third best pass rusher if you're just going off the tape. But he's got the short arms as well coming out of Texas A&M. And then Akim Messador. And I love the kid from the young man Gabe Accus from Illinois. Yeah, you're higher on him than most, but I'm with you. Like that he can go. And, and, um, in, and Missouri. Zion Young. He's an absolute lunatic.

Watch the overtime coin flip, you know? Like, you just, but he plays like that. And I kind of like when my edge rushers are a little bit loopy, you know? So I don't, this class is loaded. And I think, I think teams are looking at this and saying that's where I get value in the draft. If I can get a defensive lineman in the first round and have to, don't have to pay him a lot of money. You look at the annual salary in the NFL, it's quarterback one, edge rusher two. That's, that's the high.

hierarchy. Yep. And saving at that position is how you build out a roster that is most complete, you know, to your point. I want to go back to something that you were touching on a little earlier. And that is these, I don't know what to call them, like non-traditional positions, you know, I guess maybe like old school positions. So you mentioned sunny styles off the ball, middle linebacker. You've got Caleb Downs, like a true safety.

Those two in particular. You got Ewania, obviously the guard, and we can get into that as well. But styles and downs, I cannot wait to see how these guys evaluate and then ultimately pull the trigger, you know, yay or nay, on styles and downs. Because I think you would agree. Stiles may have had the greatest combine that we've seen in a long time. Oh, my gosh. It was insane.

And then you realize that with guys like Reese on the field at Ohio State and Stiles on the field at Ohio State and McDonald, who could be kind of borderline first rounder at defensive tackle. And yet, yet, the entire defense was built for number two because he's just special. Caleb Downs was the entire focal point of that defense. He played everywhere. They have him, you know, rushing, blitzing. Matt Patricia called him the smartest player that he's coached at this level, certainly, and certainly a guy that had conversations that were, you know, veteran NFL level conversations just in his time at Ohio State.

So what do we do with Caleb Downs? Maybe a little undersized, Todd, but like you turn on the tape and he's the best player on the field every game. I just, the tape always wins out for me. And I can only drop him to number of. five. You know what I mean? Yeah. I just, I watch him, you got

to remember, and I don't have to tell you, but Ohio State had eight players drafted last year. They're littered throughout this year's draft and especially at the top. You go back and watch that tape, and I know you have more so than anyone. Who gets the step or

two steps jump on every play? It's rare. It's rare. Like, normally, like, I'm talking almost every play. He sniffed some. There's a tendency that he's prepared for. There's something that he sees where he's,

and he's not playing. This isn't like Emmanuel McNeill Warren playing at Toledo. This is at Ohio State with NFL dudes two years in a row. Eight guys drafted from last year. And he was so clearly the most instinctive player on that defense. So I don't care what he runs. And yeah, it's awesome watching, you know, these long, fast, explosive, 40 plus inch vertical jump guys at the combine,

but their tape isn't like his. And also, you got to wonder, too, and even talking to this, Scott Goldman from AIQ does the intelligence test. Talk to talk to us about Arvel Reese and how he tests different because of the spatial awareness and how he's a perfect guy to have a conversion and play multiple, wear multiple hats. and I talked to an executive in the league. You said, Sonny Stiles, he's like, I promise you, when he's done with football, he's going to run a company.

He's going to be a CEO. This guy is just as charismatic and, like, easy to talk to as he is intelligent. And quite honestly, the reports I got out of Indianapolis from talking to people in the league, the on-field stuff was awesome. That was fun. It was what happened in the meeting rooms, getting to know this young man. And so we're not talking about a bunch of really great.

athletes who are kind of boneheads. Like he's playing with some really smart guys. But Matt Patricia comes in and he's known, as you well know, is one of like the smarter defensive minds out there. He's also known as a great teacher. And that was a big part of why in such a short span with eight guys leaving for the NFL a year ago, they were able to be so complex and so dominant,

starting with that first game, Arch Manning in Texas. But there's a leader of that group. And there's a guy who sets the bar. And I'm looking at team like the Giants at five as you're trying to, with John Harbaugh coming in. And my gosh, could Cincinnati use a player like that? Could Dallas use a player? Like you need someone who's going to come in

and raise the bar and make everyone around them better. I can't think of a better guy than Caleb Downs. And right behind him would be Sunny Stiles, to be honest with you. Yeah, and getting to know them, you know, and you alluded to it. I mean, there's not a team that I call more of their games than Ohio State. Yeah, that's true. I'm around these guys constantly.

And honestly, as good as they were on the field, I was always more impressed, both of them, off the field. And our conversation just, you know, at the lunch table and what we would talk about, sometimes football, sometimes not football. Each of these guys will be the captain of the defense. I love the Ohio State lunch table, by the way. Right.

Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah. It's a great deal, dude. It's an awesome deal. But these guys will be to your point, not just, you know, could be your best players on defense. They're going to be the best people in your organization. Right. You know, from a buy-in standpoint and a leadership standpoint, I put downs to Dallas at 12,

but only because I mocked in a fairly traditional way in terms of positional value and need and these types of things. but I look at a Cincinnati or even John Harbaugh sitting there and it's like, can these guys actually pass on these players? I don't know if they're going to be able to nor do I think that they probably should. In particular with John Harbaugh's history and how great they are on defense with versatile players and everyone's like, well, he's not as big as Kyle Hamilton. Fine, fine, but Downs is as good of a safety as I've evaluated in my time. And I haven't done it as long as you, but I think that that's a fascinating deal.

And we're looking for in the league and so much of college football has trickled up. It was the opposite for so long. But with the spread offenses and some of the RPO stuff and the defensive adjustments to it, right? And we've seen, you know, like the 335 and different defensive adjustments. but the biggest thing personnel-wise was you now got to have guys who you can keep the same 11 on the field and you can line up if they're if they want to line up and run the ball at you or because they're going to have versatile personnel as well. And so in this positionless defensive era, if you will, sunny styles and downs, but it's like

sunny style, I look at the jets and I'm like, I don't know. I get it like Arvel Reese and the conversion and I think he's going to be a great player. I don't know that I'd pass on Sonny Stiles. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, just because he's not just an off ball linebacker. And by the way, you go look at the analytics of it. Like when they did deploy him as a pass rusher, he was just as effective in the limited, you know, pass rush attempts.

Plus, he's an overhang. He's a former safety. I was just going to say he started as a safety in his career. So he's played the third last. level. Yeah. You know, for Ohio State, which is something to be said for there. There's only like five or six guys in this class where I'm like, I can't see how they fail. Yeah. You know, and then when those two, so those two. Those two. And then I'm assuming Jeremiah I love. Jeremiah love. And then who are your other guys? I would throw Arvel Reese in there

because at the very worst, he's still a damn good off-ball linebacker, you know, who can rush. Those four, Jeremiah loves, Sonny Stiles, Rvel Reese, Caleb Downs. I honestly would throw in the guard. You want a. You want a.

Yeah. And the other guys, I can see a path for failure, even though I think they're great and I rank them very high. Fernandez, let's take the quarterbacks out. but like David Bailey's not a great run stopper. And so that, you know. Sure. And and Ruben Bain has the shorter arms.

I'd love his tape. So, you know, some of the tackles have only played right. You know, could they play left? You know, what are they going to be in past protection? And manor, there's a question mark in some of those. Yeah.

So smart. It can play man and can play zone. And he ran really well. But like I put him just a tick behind. So all those guys I'm putting a tick behind. But my point in this is it's hard when you're looking at these guys, they're like, I am certain. It's not a position I want to draft, but I am certain. This guy is going to be great at what he does and make a lot of people around him better.

I don't know. There's a safety in that. I would agree with that, 100%. And then you get to the quarterback question. And as we know, I'm big on fit and then I'm big on experience. And this has been born over the last few years. Not that I was the first one to talk about this, but I talked about this. a few years ago. Now for about six years, Todd, I've kept track, kind of hit me. And I was like, man, everyone that wins a Super Bowl had a really long college career, productive college career at the quarterback position. So I went back and I was like, I wanted to actually see this

because it was just like an intuition. This is about, again, like six years ago. And I went back and it was basically like the lowest amount of starts that a Super Bowl win. winner had had in college was like Tom Brady at 26 or something like that. Yeah, yeah. But he was in that program a long time and kind of got a weird deal there. But yeah. And then, you know, the next lowest now to date is Sam Darnold in the mid-20s. So like the average college career for a quarterback.

And Josh, John Allen's like 25, 28. Mahomes and Josh Allen are both sub-blank. 30, but they're above 20, I think, like 20, they're, they're up there, though, almost 30. But they're superhuman too, but yes. The average college career for a quarterback that wins a Super Bowl is 34 starts and well over a thousand attempts. You know, so, you know, I think it's like 1,400 attempts. Isn't that crazy?

And so, like, it's, it's, and every year, like, it comes back, you know, Stafford wins the Super Bowl. And we got all, like, the, like, the, all velocities and arm angles and all this stuff. And maybe Parcells wasn't an idiot back in like the 90s and early. You know what I mean? It was 25 starts then. And that was the baseline.

It was, you know, college graduate. It was all these, all these things. And so now you got Mendoza, you know, and he has that experience. Now, now people, I think in this era and the transfer era, you're like, wait, is he that experience. It's like, yeah, yeah, he's started a ton of games. Meanwhile, Ty Simpson doesn't have that experience. And here's, you know, the really talented, although maybe a bit undersized, one-year starter. And I got to tell you, more than anything else, more than his size, more than, oh, you struggled in the SEC championship game against Georgia or anything like that. It's the fact

that he didn't start for two years that scares me more than anything. I know. And it's And so when you look at these two, and I'm assuming, you know, you're like the rest of us, Mendoza, Ty Simpson, you know, like, what are your thoughts? There's so many different ways to go here, right? After nine weeks or so into the season, Ty Simpson was the guy. I'm like you. I study all this stuff. And I went on a big rant this summer about a lot of this and have done it before. I like your numbers, though.

I'm going to have to incorporate that. I hadn't done the Super Bowl winning averages. Oh, dude, once you see it, once you say to like aggregate those things and you're going to be like, oh, of course. Right. This is so good. And you have so much more opportunity now. I was talking to Chris Ballard, who keep, you know, keep on taking his hacks and hopefully Daniel Jones will come back healthy.

But he's built this organization. It reminds me a lot of. of Chris Spielman, sorry, Rick Spielman, Chris's brother. I worked with Chris for a long time. With the Vikings, they couldn't get the quarterback position right, but like, my gosh, is he a great general manager, you know? And the thing you keep saying is you got to take your hacks. But even talking to Ballard, he's like, honestly,

the most important thing, he's saying exactly what we're talking about here is, there's an opportunity with NIL and Transfer Portal that was never there before. and like I'm urging every young man to go back and play with Ty Simpson nine games in he was the best quarterback in the country and like I defy anyone to tell me different because I I watch that because I prepped for Wisconsin and they had played Bama and like his game against Wisconsin was insane like the throws he was making were insane and even like the loss to Florida State there was like a lot of good tape in there like the scheduling, the pre-snap, the indicators, the NFL stuff they're running. His brain is operating already like an NFL brain, and you would expect that. We get two guys in this class who don't have great size, don't have great tools compared to Fernando Mendoza, 6-5, who's up to almost 240.

They don't have tailing green tools. They don't have Col Payton from North Dakota State tools. But two guys that have been around ball their whole life, who are kind of trying to, trying to be outliers. And Ty Simpson and Garrett Nussmeyer with their fathers and what they grew up around. Nussmeyer dad is the offensive coordinator of the Saints. He's been a quarterback coach in the league and he was a quarterback himself in the league. And Simpson's dad is 20 years at UT Martin as the head coach.

So I just wrote this article, man. Outliers suck. It's the worst part of the job because there's phase one of it. And I know I'm bouncing around here, but it's phase one. Oh, I love this. the tape sucks you in. It's like intoxicating. And I'm watching Ty Simpson, the pre-snap motions,

identifying the coverages post-snap. They're changing the looks. Safety's, and he's bang, bang, bang, bang with his progressions. And he's getting the ball out on time. And he's anticipating and he's hitting spots. And it's like, wow. I remember writing it like a note down like, this can't be a six-game starter.

There's nothing about this that's a six-game starter when I was watching him. And then they regressed. And there's reasons, and you can make excuses for it, and they're legitimate excuses. Venables figured out how to get to the quarterback. And then from that point on, that pass protection started to fall apart. And their protection plan was never very good. It wasn't great. And so there's a blueprint there.

But more importantly, 125th in the nation, like Bear Bryant would tear up the graveyard. 125th in the nation running the football. Your number one wide receiver, Ryan Coleman Williams now, I guess, kind of disappeared. And he winds up taking all these hits and getting gastritis and by the Roseboy's 190 pounds. So you got all those factors that explain the why. But at the end of the day, look at Fernando last year. I remember this summer doing a full breakdown on him and wasn't planning on doing it.

I'm like, I don't know that anyone cares. I'll watch his tape. We'll see what he's like at Indiana. And then I got talked to him. Let's do a show on Fernando. And I watched his tape and I was done. I'm so glad we did this. I think he's going to be a first rounder.

I think he's got that kind of ability. But he is not there yet. Turnover worthy plays, mistakes, forcing things, trying to carry a Cal team that didn't have the talent around him. But look at the difference between him this year and the structure he had. And to your point, the experience he got. And those first eight, nine games with Ty Simpson was out playing him. because let's face it, he wasn't good in the Oregon game until the end.

It wasn't that good in Iowa until the end. Well, the pick six at Oregon was a really poor throw. Brutal throw. The pick against Iowa almost beat him. But it was the series after. Pick against Penn State was a terrible one, almost beat him. It was always the series after where he came out and was lights out, just bam, bam, bam, right down the field and would lead them to a victory.

And that's always what impressed me the most. Yeah, like, what do we want to see? Some guys got it. Some guys don't. You know? And he so clearly has it. I'll say, I couldn't go, and I was like first to market on Mendoza, right? Back in the summer, this guy's the first round.

I remember Pete Thamble's texting me like, yo, you sure? He's like, yeah, maybe. And then everyone else, like, Fernando Mendoza is the number one pick. I was like, I was slow down. I'm not sure. Ty Simpson's out playing him. That Ohio State game changed it all. me. And everyone

talks about that hit with Caden Curry and that was awesome. First play. First play, a few snaps back like it never happened. Also, did you see, I know you did, but not talked about is later in the game he's in the back, he's in the end

zone throwing out and Curry gets him again. Helmpe, smash on the ground. He got beat up all day long. And I don't care if they scored. I heard Orlovsky and all of it, and I understand that. And I'm higher on Ty Simpson the most. I'm just, I'm not going to go that far. The thing that I see with, that's different with Mendoza is against that defense we just talked about,

six points in the first three quarters, great. If you just watch that tape, it's off platform. It's not RPO stuff. It's not the stuff that people were talking about early. It's tight windows. It's situations. It's knowing where to go with the ball, protecting the ball. We don't talk about that enough with Fernando.

You know, like, yeah, he's not as talented as Drake May or Caleb Williams or Jaden Daniels. He's not as talented as Cam Ward. I get it. I don't think, I think the floor for him is extraordinarily high because you, he has so, like Tom Brady is no question why they're already having Brian Greasy work with him with the connection with, you know, Shanahan and Kubiak and all that. Like that's a done deal. And it's a done deal because they see, I think, that organization a lot of what drove Tom Brayette. Brady to become what he was in the way he, the way Mendoza prepares and how obsessive he is with this game. Obsessive personality. Yeah. Loved my meetings with him. Is a football nerd in the best

possible sense. When I talk to him about football, it's like I'm sitting across from Kirk Cousins. Just an absolute in the best possible way football nerd. Loves it. Absolutely loves it. Loves his teammates. His teammates love him. I think that's a big part of this. And And here's another part that it's really hard to, like, evaluate in a draft sense. And, you know, I don't want to be critical of Dan because you and I, like, I played with Dan. Dan's a friend of mine. I love Dan. Yeah, I text with Dan all the time.

I love Dan. 100%. Same thing. Yeah. I just, I got frustrated. Not the frustrating. It's not the right word. Let me just go into, it's really hard when you're evaluating.

a player to based on, you know, you're watching game film, sometimes it's a cut up and everything, and sometimes you can lose sight of situational football. I think it happens to you at times, right? It happens to me all the time. You can just be like, I'm just evaluating play after play after and you can do that in a vacuum. And you're like, okay, I'm just trying to, what are his traits, what is his skill set? But the problem with that is that at that position, as you know, and I certainly remember, it matters so much more what you do when it's an obvious down situation, when it's third down, when you're backed up, when the clock is running down, when it's the last possession of a half, when it's the last possession of a game. Those snaps

just mean more. You know, granted, a mistake any time can kill your team. But this is always what jumped out to me when calling his games and preparing for his games, covering in the is how well he played when he had to play well. And that's not always the case, Todd. As you know, we see talented quarterbacks all the time that when you evaluate them in a vacuum and you're just watching skills and traits, man, you can fall in love with him. But then if you put in a cut up of, I want to see what he does on third and seven plus. I want to see what he does in, you know, down by a possession or up by a possession.

I want to see what he does. Red zone. I want to see what he does backed up. I want to see what he does when the clock is down inside of a minute or two minutes. All those situations. If you put that cut up of Mendoza on from last year, it's insane. It's insane. He was like mid-80 percentile in the red zone and 27 touchdowns, no interceptions.

It's crazy. So here's a couple of things that I really love that he does in those situations. And these are traits and skills that then try. translate to the game situation when you have to play well. And I used to talk about this with Michael Pinnock's a lot. When he threw the ball down the field, he threw with great leverage, where it wasn't true 50-50 situations for his wide receiver. He was creating 60-40s and 75-35s for his wide receivers all the time with ball placement.

Because he threw with great leverage. Well, Mendoza does the exact same thing. I texted with Dan and Dan was like, well, it's always back shoulder. Yeah, because that's the right throw in all of those situations. and in particular on third downs and fourth downs, he throws with great leverage from a skill set, and he's hyper accurate in those situations. So long kind of dissertation to tell you, like,

I love Mendoza. And we did this on one of my shows, and I would love for you to answer this question. And I know this one's just like kind of right off the bat. I didn't prep you for this. We did this thing where it was like, if you had one drive, game on the line, And you could take Mendoza, Caleb Williams, Cam Ward, any of those young quarterbacks.

Who would you take? And dang it, Todd, like, I think I would take Mendoza. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I'd be, it would come down to Mendoza and Drake May, maybe. Sure. But yeah. Yeah.

And I'm also, I'm armed with what I've seen in the, the NFL, so that, which, which isn't fair. But we're talking college career, absolutely 1,000 percent. But even knowing what I know in the NFL, I still may. He's different. Like, his pro day was, was, was today. And just listening to him talk. And I don't, I don't think he's been around Brady much. But like, you get that same vibe where he's focusing on things that, like, if you're in a classroom in like high school and this kid's talking when you know with arm raised he's annoying right right like like all right stop trying to talk over us but then like armed with all these 26 years of doing this and listening to the things he's focusing on as a young man

I'm like man he gets it you know he kept saying to me this last year he's like every day I'm just trying to be the best Fernando Mendoza can possibly be, which sounds nerdy. Like you said, if it's in a high school classroom, you're like roll your eyes and you're like, oh, okay. But when it's real, then there's something to it and clearly can drive you towards being a great player in the future. So I certainly think that's the case. You know what else I think really, like, if maybe you can go back and do your Super Bowl study with this. I value adversity and, and, and, and, and, like not necessarily the chip and like the stuff that we like to talk about on TV. But I think as human beings, we've all been through different levels of adversity.

And like what, and certain people can, can, it sounds great. Well, he picked himself up the mat, you know, and he bounced right back and he, man, that guy handles adversity well. But like only one human being in the world can live through that failure, that insult, that embarrassing. and tell you what it was like to have to manage that internally and tell yourself, I'm still who I think I am. I'm still that guy. And now I've got, now I'm in a tougher spot to go prove it

because I'm not a five star. I'm not, you know, I'm not who they thought I was. I'm not. And like those moments, and I know I'm like the old man now talking about life and maturity and all. I love that. moments, they make us and they define us, really, right? And so for Brady, we know what that was, a hundred ninety-ninth pick. And some of the struggles at Michigan. Well, yeah, I mean, he was,

you know, competing at Michigan. And so a lot of times with these five stars and the entitlement and it's always right here, you know, it takes, like Sam Donald's a perfect example, man. he's five star USC golden boy you know weather's perfect everything's set up for him and then he comes in the league and it falls apart and it's like taken away from him and he wonders am I ever going to be that guy again but I still believe I am

and you have support cast around you yeah and for Sam it was his family and I know when I've gone through my stuff it's my family and the closest people to and so Fernando it was like even talking about it today again like stars don't matter stars don't define Fernando Mendoza. And so I like the fact that he's coming into the league and he's already had some of that.

Yeah, you bet. You know, and it was no scholarship offers. It's, it's Yale. And then you get one kind of, yeah, you can come and come to Cal. We'll pay for your pay for school. And he's got to grind his way up the depth chart. And he's still, even when he's starting, he doesn't have a lot of talent around him. He's going up against Miami and something.

So I just like that he's been through all that, man. All right. Last thing I want to get into are the wide receivers. We haven't done that yet. I like the class a lot. I think it gives you a lot of variability. You know, like, you know, you got your prototype guys. You've got guys that maybe fit more modern NFL football with what they can do out of the slot and in space.

My top three are Carnell Tate, Mackay Lemon, and then Omar Cooper. because I think Omar Cooper is being slept on a little bit in this draft. I think he's a phenomenal player, in particular with the ball in his hands, once he gets the ball in his hands. But this wide receiver class, you know, what do you like about it?

I like a lot of what you said. And I said off the top, I think it could get bumped down a little bit because of we need tackles. We need, you know, we need edge rushers. But I think we're going to see when that second run, if you will,

It's going to be some mixture of Carnell Tate, probably the first receiver off the board. Could go as high as Tennessee at four. I don't foresee that. It could be the Giants at five. I think seven, I think six, sorry, the Cleveland Browns, somewhere in that four to ten range, right? Then I think you're going to see a lot of offensive tackles and edge rushers. And I think we're going to see kind of Mackay Lemon mixed in there from USC, who I just the thing I like about the small guys is they're all they're all tough not all of them but a lot of

them are tough and so Cooper and Lemon are certainly tough who are like absolute dogs man and so those guys are going to go I believe I believe that Lemon will go second and then it could could be Jordan Tyson the injury stuff is going to be what fluctuates his his stock and where he winds up going and then I think Cooper's right there I think Denzel Boston and a big receiver an X. I think he's being slept on a little bit. I think he's a first round pick and not like, oh, maybe Fringe. I think he's going to go in the first round. NFL teams are looking for big receivers. The Patriots are trying to get one from the Eagles and if the Eagles give up theirs, maybe Boston goes there. And if the, if the, if the, A.J. Brown doesn't go to New England,

maybe that's where Frable finally gets his big X receiver. After that, I think you see a little bit of a fall off, but my gosh, man. I was watching this tape. I had to get down to like late third round before I started seeing receivers that I'm like, I don't know. I don't know if maybe he's in number four, you know. I mean, just look at this list. It's loaded with smaller guys like Zach Branch, Zachariah Branch, who I think he's more

than just a gadget guy, but some people in the league do. Super explosive, shifty, quick. he ran more of an NFL tree when it was at USC. Chris Brazel, the second. How about that Georgia game? Six, four, 200 pounds, ran like a 4-3-6 or something crazy at the combine, can get in and out of his breaks a little bit.

Malachi Fields is a big X. Didn't have the production, not as shifty, ran in the four-sixes, but he'll go, I think, late second, early third is another big receiver. So you've got your big guys, you've got your small guys. Casey Concepcion is a heck of a player, too.

After the catch, return game. I'm just kind of ranting on Antonio Williams. Every time I watch the receiver, Joel, I was like, this guy's underrated, you know? Yeah. Antonio Williams, I get like Club Nick the past game. It didn't go as planned. This guy does the dirty work over the middle. This year I saw him settling into zones and getting open more, like with his instincts and his feel,

attacking the ball and transitioning up the field better. I like Antonio Williams. You got Chris Bell from Louisville. Everyone's given the AJ Brown comp, and I get it, like catch the ball and just coming off the injury, but apparently he's had a schedule. So he could go in the second round. And then you have Bryce Lance, Tray Lance's younger brother at North Dakota State. That show we put on at the Combine, you see it actually on tape, too. And, yeah, I mean.

Elijah Surrat. You can throw him in there. Yeah. If you like big physical guys who get your first downs and know how to run the back shoulder. as well as anybody after studying Devante Adams with Aaron Rogers. So Dionne Berks. I don't get the production part, but I do get when you have, I mean, look at their quarterbacks before Mateer.

Dionne Burks is a is a vertical, undersized vertical guy, whether you put him in the slaughter or outside. That's what he is. Well, it's hard to be a vertical receiver when you had, no one even mentioned names, those quarterbacks a year before. And then John Mateer with the thumb injury. If you look at his production, Dionne Berks' production, against what was Auburn and Michigan.

Yeah, Michigan for sure. Okay, his production in those two games, and then his production, when Mateer had a little bit of time off and looked a little bit more John Mateer-esque in the college football playoff, if you combine those three games against those defenses, and if he was on that trajectory, his we wouldn't be talking about the production thing it's yeah they had to go to the better um was a satania on the other side um who's a run after catch guy so anyway i just as i kept going

and thinking that it was going to fall off a little bit i think there's so much depth in this class in the second and third round it's it's unusual how many good players are to be found i think there's going to be a massive run on day two and day three okay last thing before we get you out of here you're the fit the player to the location that you're rooting for the most what what's the one player in this look you just want to see it it's the right fit like this is this is what you hope for um i'm gonna be careful with this one i i do want to see desperately i know too much i would no no partly but also i don't like just because i want it doesn't mean it's happening too so i got to be careful of that. I you know what I want to see? I would love to see Cassius Howell because I don't see

the short arms on tape. I recognize they're there. I don't see it on tape like I watched a handful of other guys with 32 and 5 eighths inches 33 and 3 eighths inches who didn't play who played with shorter arms on tape right. Cassius Howells tape is so explosive and it's like from the first step quickness to the the change of direction to the lower body power creating power from the ground up and then i watched him again who's the slot receiver for florida the the chg guy um uh ventra what's is anyway uh brown i think i can't think of it yeah anyway so but then i watch him in coverage you know zone zone drops looks good looks smooth and then he's like man to man against the Florida slot receiver and he's and he's like in and out of

breaks with him. I just think he can do so many things. I would love to see him in Brable's defense. I would love to see and I don't, I think they'll probably go in a different direction, but I think about Landry and how like with Tennessee and New England, I just, I think that that would be a really fun fit. But at the end of the day, I want to see Jeremiah love in Tennessee. I want to see Dable with Cam.

And he loves Jackson Dart, but, but I'm privy to. how much they were willing to give away to go get Cam Ward a year ago. Sure. We were able driving that bus. And it was a lot. He loves Cam Ward. And so if it wasn't going to be a head coaching job, that was a spot he wanted. And now you added Jeremiah Love, which I don't know that that's going to happen, but we'll see.

I'd love to see that mix. Hey, man, I can't thank you enough for your time and your knowledge. You do an incredible job. This is fun, man. You can find Todd on his show, the McShay Show. on Netflix, wherever you get your podcast, Spotify, all of that. Then you can check out his really good coverage on the ringer.com slash McShay. Go check that out.

It's awesome. And dude, I appreciate it. Always great to talk with you. Always great. It's a fun time of year. And it's good to get with you on this and then look forward to the season. I mean, it's around the corner. It's a scary part.

I mean, you got, I mean, UFO and you get all these. I mean, you're a busy man. You need a little off season. Let's get you some June and July, huh? There we go. We'll take a break then and then we'll dive right back in for the college season. I appreciate your time, my man. Have a great day. All right, brother. You too. Man, that was very fun. And a big thanks to Todd McShay for coming on the program.

Hey, if you have not subscribed to the show, make sure to go do that over on YouTube. You can hit that subscribe button. Also hit the notification button. You'll know when all of our content drops here during the course of the off season as we ramp up here towards the NFL draft. You can follow us on social media. Wherever you like to social media, that's at Joel Clatio. You can get all of our content in shorter form, and you can follow us during the course of the offseason there as well. We'll be back next week with more coverage as we lead up to the NFL draft. And just remember, all offseason, we're going to be here. We're going to dive more into the college stuff after we get done with the draft, and we'll get you all ramped up for

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