The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 263. An Interview with my Father | Walter Peterson

Episode Date: June 21, 2022

This past Sunday was Father’s Day. In this episode, I discuss my family history, relationships, growing up, learning to read and write, raising children, and marriage with my father Walter Peterson.—Links—Try our new writing app, Essay: https://essay.appOr take the Understand Myself personality test: https://understandmyself.com—Chapters—[0:00] Intro[1:00] The story of the 3rd floor [3:32] Family settling in Saskatchewan[8:57] Breaking 10 acres[10:42] Jordan’s grandfather[12:00] Walter's school caboose [12:57] His childhood[18:38] Growing up on a farm[23:14] Wood-gathering & feeding workers[25:04] Typical clothing[26:48] Was it a happy childhood?[27:45] Farm chores[29:20] Walter’s grandfather[36:18] His grandmother & learning to read[42:19] Joe Rogan & touring[44:13] Spending time with grandpa[44:52] Walter's dad[45:55] Moving out[49:02] Raising kids now vs. then[55:12] Walter’s mom[57:40] His sisters[58:41] His old friends [1:00:24] Walter's reading, writing, & going to school[1:03:00] Jordan skipping school[1:05:21] Jordan's great grandfather's band & the guitar he made Jordan[1:07:14] Walter meets his wife [1:12:30] Deciding to be a teacher [1:15:10] Marrying age & ceremony[1:16:57] Why family matters & Walter’s best years[1:18:27] Walter on Jordan's childhood[1:19:48] Jordan's early memories of reading with his Father[1:24:08] The most challenging part of marriages[1:26:06] Jordan's mom[1:26:35] Personality & Jordan's parents[1:28:18] Current restrictions[01:29:07] Walter's best relationships#FathersDay #Personality #Childhood #Canada #Family

Welcome to episode 263 of the JBP Podcast. I'm Michaela Peterson. In this amazing episode, I will treasure forever. Dad talked to his dad, my grandpa, Walter Peterson. They went over our family history, relationships, growing up, learning to read and write, raising children and marriage. I hope you enjoy this as much as I did. That's, I never do that. You see, I hardly ever skipped school. And every time I did, God damn it, you caught me. I did it like three times. One time I drove to Heinz Creek. Oh three times.

Really, it wasn't very, I tell you, it wasn't very often. One time I drove to Heinz Creek to get away from you. I thought I'll drive to Heinz Creek. He's not gonna find me there. And then on the way back from Heinz Creek, you drove by and waved at me. Said, Oh my God, he caught me again. So ridiculous. Hello everybody. I decided today that I'm going to talk to my dad as the subject for my YouTube video and podcast and find out more about his life, his young life on the Prairie in Saskatchewan about his father, my grandfather, his grandfather, my great-grandfather, his mother,

what it was like growing up back in the 40s, mostly, born in 1937, July of 1937, and we've talked about such things but not that much. And so there's lots of things I want to know. And so that's what we're going to try to talk about today. And I'm going to walk through his life with him and ask him a bunch of questions so that I have the answers to the questions. And I hope you enjoy it. Hello. Hey, George. How are you doing? Just as good as it gets. Good. Glad to hear it. So I thought I'd start by telling the story of this third floor that I built on my house. And so one of the things we did, we were going to build a log cabin on the third floor of this semi detached house right in downtown Toronto. Tammy and I thought about that.

I guess we wanted to cabin out in the woods, but we thought we could at least build one on our third floor. And then that sort of morphed into this Native American big house, which is all made of wood inside, unlike the plaster sheeting that makes up the rest of the house. So walking up there is quite a transition. And we build it with some local architects and with some input from Quakayo to Carver, who filled it up with Tonempoles. But on the walls, you and I talked about the possibility of tearing some old wood off the farm stead in Saskatchewan off the original buildings there that great grandpa

burnt homesteaded. And so that happened when the totem poles came across the country on a 53 foot truck. Joel, my brother had helped tear a bunch of the wood off the, I was off the building surrounding the original house and off the barn. And so the wall, both walls, are down in gray wood or red wood because some of the buildings were red, that barn red, or they're made of doors from the buildings. So, and you had stripped some of that wood off years ago to use in your room downstairs as well. That was before that, anything like that was popular. Yeah, yeah, I took the floor out of the loft of the barn, and I used it for flooring in the cabins at the lake.

I didn't know you used it for flooring there. You also used it in a decorative way in the pool room. That's pool table, by the way, not pool. Don't stare at you, you mean? Yeah. No, that wasn't from the barn. That was from a friend of mine. Oh, okay. Okay, well, I think I got the idea for using the old wood.

Anyways, we did get the stuff stripped away from the old farmstead. So now, my great-grandfather, your grandfather, Behrant, from whom my middle name is derived, he came to North America from Norway. No, he would've born in North Dakota or in Minnesota. Was it his father that came? Yeah, his father. And his father that came? Yes, his father. And his father-in-law. Did you tell me they built a boat and came to Norway, or came from Norway to New York?

That actually was his father-in-law that built the boat. And the two families came. I think there were a total of nine or ten on the boat. Yeah, they left Norway and sailed all the way to New York. And then they ended up in the Midwest where there were a lot of Norwegian settlers. Well yeah, Minnesota and North Dakota were the well of Wisconsin too to a certain extent. They were just the areas where the Norwegians and the Swedes settled, yeah.

So they migrated that way. And then there was a move up into Saskatchewan. Yeah, in both 1910 I think it's the first time that they came up and homesteaded. And then they left again because it didn't work out as, I guess, homestead life was pretty tough, you know, so they left again, but they didn't sell the They did have an auction. My grandfather's little clock was in the auction. And when they came back to Saskatchewan, they went to an auction, and they only bought it back. And I still have it.

So how did they get up to Saskatchewan from Minnesota at that time? Was it rail? No, they drove up. In fact, I think you have a picture of the old car that they drove up in. I don't know what it was. Like, remember seeing pictures of it. They left and I present they went back down to Minnesota, but then they came back. Where'd they go? North Dakota, place called Vang, V-A-N-G. Both families were in that area, not separated by too much.

I think my grandfather worked in the dairy area. And by both families, who do you mean? Well, I mean my grandmother's family and my grandfather's family. And they were married when they came up to Saskatchewan already. Yeah, yeah. And so, why did they decide to come to Saskatchewan if they were already settled in North Dakota? Well, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Yeah, except when it's in know, it's the Saskatchewan burr free free land and it's not colder and

Saskatchewan than it is in North Dakota. Right. And so the Canadian government was offering home stethers at that time, a chunk of land if they would come in and do what to it. Well, they had to prove it up over a period of three years. And I've forgotten, I think they had to break about 10 acres the first year. And I think they were required to have some sort of a domicile on it.

And that's probably a loose word for home. Right. Right. And so, so do you have any idea why they left the first time? You said it was hard. I mean, we can talk about that in a minute, but specifically. No, I don't really have. I imagine there were a number of factors. I'm sure life was fairly tough since the scheduling. I imagine they were homesick. Anyway, that's the story. They left. And do you know how long it was before they came back? I think it was about a matter of about a year and a half, something like that, or maybe just a year, but I'm not sure of that, George. They thought they'd give it another try, and the second time they stayed. Yeah, yeah. Well, maybe it wasn't as bad as they thought, you know. So what would it have meant to break 10 acres of land at that time?

What would have you had to do and how? Well you took your axe and you cut down the pauper that was on the place and I guess there were a few spruce on it as well. And then you took your grub hole out and tried to dig the roots out. And you used your team to pull the roots out while them up and burn them and cultivated the land as best you could

and probably sold some wheat on it. So that whole area, so that was near Nakedham Saskatchewan. If anyone wants to look on a map, that whole area, the prairie there, would have been covered with trees? Yeah, there were trees there at that time. Yeah, it was covered with trees. So, so the clear 10 acres meant you had to cut down hundreds of trees, I presume, and then you had to pull

the roots out of the ground one at a time with a team of horses. That's why you could only clear 10 acres or why you had to clear 10 acres, you said in the first year. 10 acres isn't that big by farm standards. I think it was 10 acres a year for three years to claim it up. I don't know.

These are things we never really talked about when I was a kid. How do you know about it at all? Well, I guess sitting around the table listening to the adults talk, I picked up a lot of it. So how many kids did your grandparents have? They just had the one Stanley Stanley and my dad. And Stanley was adopted. He was. And was he adopted in the United States or was he adopted in

Saskatchewan? He was adopted in Saskatchewan. Do you know if they knew, do they know anything about him? Do they know anything about his family? That I have no idea of vote. That was something that was never talked about as far as I can remember. Do you know how old he was? He was an infant. He was an infant. I don't think I knew Dad was adopted until I was a teen age. And then I probably didn't believe it the first time I was sold. Was it a shock? I don't know what they'd call it a shock or an audit.

I suppose it was a bit of a shock, yeah. So and they had no other children? They had no other children. And so, I remember going out to that farmstead, and that would have been 25 years, probably, after you had left it, with great grandpa Barrent. A couple of times, to ride on a potato harvester he had built. And all the outbuildings were still out there, including the blacksmith shop. And the, I don't

remember what you called it. It was this contraption like an enclosed sled that you used to go to school in. It was still attacked. Caboose. Yeah, you called it a caboose. Why was it called a caboose? Oh, God only knows. I don't know. I have no idea why it was called a caboose. That's probably a good question to ask.

Google. All right. So, all right. So you, Barrett and his wife, and I don't remember Barrett's wife's name, of course, I never knew her. Clara. Clara.

So they built a log house on the prairie and a barn. And there must have been eight or nine other buildings, small shed like buildings. One of them was a black mishop. Oh, yeah. Well, there were, you know, there was a, there were different buildings over different periods of time. But you're right, there were probably at least a half dozen other buildings and the house and the barn and the shop. And the pump, which was surrounded by a big tractor, a big metal tractor wheel. Yes, it was a wheel off a steamer that we made a trough out of.

And the cabin you grew up in, which was a log cabin, it was insulated with cardboard, if I remember correctly. But when I knew the house, it was still standing, right? We could still go in it. It was still standing. Well, I think it's still kind of standing. Maybe not. I don't know.

I haven't been there for a couple of years now. Yeah. The last time I saw it was a few years ago and it had collapsed a fair bit. I don't think you could get inside it anymore, but it had a central room and a bedroom on Did it face which direction did it face? They had two bedrooms on the east side. Okay. So it was one room, one main room with two bedrooms on the East Side. Or was there a bedroom on the other side too? No, there was a kitchen and a hallway in the living room is what the what we called it. And then there were the two bedrooms on east side.

The house, I guess, was long, you know, it was long north and south. Right. And it wasn't very big. No, how many square feet do you think it was? Like 600? Yeah, probably about that. Yeah, like one floor of my semi detached. In probably. Yeah, and you had two sisters grow up with you there. How many people lived in that house when you were a little kid. Well, how old was I? Well, how old were you? How old were you when you left that house and moved into town? I was probably about nine or 10.

Okay, so you should have some pretty decent memories of that place if you were that old. Okay, so how many, you should have some pretty decent memories of that place if you were that old. Okay, so how many people lived there in that house from the time you were born till the time you were 10, generally speaking? Well, I guess there'd have been four adults and three kids. Four adults. So your grandfather and your grandmother,

Baron and Clara, and Stanley, your dad, and Bernie's, Bernie's, Bernie's, his wife, and your sister Judy and your sister Betty, both of whom were younger than you. Great. Okay. How did all seven of you live in that house? There was two bedrooms. How was that? How did you manage that? How did we manage that? How did we manage that? I really have no idea how we manage. Well, who slept in which, who slept in which bedrooms?

Were all the kids in one bedroom? No, no. No. No. No. But that would only leave one room for the adults Yeah I don't know whether I can answer that question or not. I don't think I know Okay, okay, you have us you have a soft spot in your heart for that house You have a soft spot in your heart for that house. A soft spot. Yeah, well, you always go back and visit it, you know, and you're nostalgic.

Wow. And you go to the farm. Yeah, I guess I have a soft spot for. I grew up there. Yeah, well, what was it like to grow up there? Good. Good how? What did you do? Like, when you were a little kid, when you were just

the earliest memories you have, what are the earliest memories you have of being out there? Now, you only spoke, you spoke Norwegian out there, right? Primarily. Well, yeah, kind of a Minnesota Norwegian, I guess. My grandfather and grandmothers spoke in our region mainly. They could both speak English, but mainly they spoke in our region. My dad spoke in our region when he was with my grandfather and grandmother and English tourists at the time. My mother, Bernice, probably could speak some Norwegian, but we spoke some English too because neighbors weren't always fluent in our region, although a lot of them were. So what was life like there on the farmstead when you were a kid?

You had animals, you had horses. We had horses and cattle, pigs, chickens. Who took care of them? Well, I guess we all did or I shouldn't say we all did, but my grandfather and grandmother and mum and dad took care of them. And what did that entail? And how many cows were there? Do you have any idea? Well, I would guess that there were probably about six codes that were milk produced here and then the rest were raised for beef. Excuse me. Horses, we probably We probably had four or five horses all the time. And did you ride a lot?

Ride horse? Yeah. No, not very much. I rode some, but I wouldn't say I was a cowboy or anything. But I wouldn't say I was a cowboy or anything. Any particular reason, where they, I mean, did you like horses? Was it interesting to you or were they work animals? Well, both, they were interesting.

They were work animals. I mean, that's what pulled the, pulled the influence when I was a kid. I can remember when we got our first tractor. And I can remember when we got our first rubber-dired tractor. But I can also remember riding on implements with my grandfather driving four horses in front of it. Plowing and that sort of thing and harvesting. Well, I don't remember plowing as such, but I remember seeding because on the cedar you could stand on a platform at the back of the unit.

And yeah, a good view of everything and there was something to hang on to so you didn't fall off. And we had an old dog named Pooch who used to sit right up on the seed box and kind of look around the whole country while we were doing that. He got pretty good at a balance balancing.

How big a farm would have the family handled at that time? I think it was, I think it was three quarters as long as I can remember. And how many acres are in a quarter? 180. 160, 160. So it was 480 acres. And so the farm obviously expanded past the initial homestead relatively rapidly. That I don't know.

I know who, I know who owned the quarters that were bought and brought into the farm, but I don't know the details of it, and I don't know when. Right. So when Barron and Clara came back up, they made enough of a go at it the second time to establish a farmstead that was successful enough to buy other reasonably sizable pieces of land. I mean, three quarters is not an immense farm by modern standards obviously, but it's not no land at all. No, it was probably at early average. I mean, there were, there were families that had one quarter of land. So three quarters was actually pretty good. Mm-hmm. And so everything you ate, I presume, pretty

much came directly off the farm with the animals that you had. So eggs and milk, were you milking cows every day? Well, I wasn't. My mother was a great milker. I can remember her doing the milking a good portion of the time. a good portion of the time. Grandma showed me one day a picture of the cabin with the firewood she had split for the winter. And if that cabin was 600 square feet and a story high, the pile of wood that she split looked to be 1200 square feet and about at least as tall as the cabin. When she said she split it, I don't think she meant that she manually split it. She may have had something to do with it, but we had a wood splitter which was run by a small gas engine.

And you could split wood to be to devil with it. Yeah, well that sounds a lot easier than having to do it with an axe. I know that grandma was a busy woman, but that does you was. Yeah, well she must have had her hands filled with three kids that grandma was a busy woman. But that doesn't even. She was. Yeah, well, she must have had her hands filled with three kids and a whole farm to run. And then when the Threshing Crews came in in the fall, if I also recall, she used to have to feed them as well. And that was on wood still.

She and my grandma, yeah. And that would be 14, 15 men. It pretty well filled the kitchen as I remember it. Yeah, I bet. So they were fed how many times a day? Would she feed them three times a day when they were threshing? Three times a day. Right, so that's 52 meals for very hungry men. And that would be one of her many chores.

Yeah. Nobody said it was easy. No, no, when grandpa showed me one time, or I saw a picture of him, I think he showed me though, the parka that he wore out in the winter to do his farm work. And, I mean, Saskatchewan's plenty cold, it gets to be minus 40 there on no shortage of occasions. And it also has quite the blistering wind. And I mean, it was a wool jacket and jeans, essentially underneath it. It wasn't anything particularly bulky or fancy.

So I imagine winter was pretty, well, it could be pretty brutal. Well, I think it was generally true that there weren't adequate clothes for the temperatures that we did have. had had. I mean, the best you had was wool. You know, and wool was the mean thing. Wool pants, wool underwear, heavy wool coat. If you were lucky enough to have one maybe it had canvas on the outside for windbreak But those guys were tough, you know, yeah, well, I remember grandpa's arms forearm. So I mean They were no joke when he was a you know, I remember him from about the time I was 10 I suppose

Think that's about where his memories come from he He would have been 50 probably at that point. And I mean, he had immense forearms. He was a very strongly built person and he had done a plenty of work. So, did you have a happy childhood, would you say? Did I have a happy childhood? Yeah, well, like I said, you're attached to the farm. I would say yes, I had a happy childhood. Okay, up to what age?

Well, it's both teen years. So what made it a happy childhood? Well, what wouldn't have made it a happy childhood? Well, people have free of the breeze. You had acres and acres to wander around in. There was lots of wildlife. There were some chores. It was just a good life. What chores did you have to do?

Oh, you had to bring in wood. Occasionally you had to bring in a pale water. Usually it was only about a half a pale because you couldn't carry a pale water. Usually it was only about a half a pale because you couldn't carry a whole pale. You had to go with the pump and pump the water into the pale and then it wasn't very far to carry it but it had to be carried occasionally. So you weren't overwhelmed with you weren't overwhelmed with chores? Are the sounds of it? No, I wouldn't say.

I wouldn't say I was overwhelmed with it at all. No. So you had something, I had something to do. Right, right. And you did them. Yeah. And if you didn't do them, what happened? Or did that just not happen? Oh, I imagine it happened. I would imagine a scolding was probably the

the main thing. Who from? Well, scolding would probably have come from my mother or my grandmother. That was pretty strict. He didn't scold much. So, in what way was he strict? Well, let's just say he was strict. Well, I'm curious about your relationship with your great-grandfather and your father because you've intimated that in many ways

you were raised by your great-grandfather. And I remember when I was about, I think, great-grandfather died when I was about, I think, grandfather, great grandfather, parent died when I was about nine, 10? No, nine or 10, yeah. Yeah, well, that was the first brush I really had with loss. And I wasn't so upset with his loss because I didn't know him that well. I mean, I was sad about it because I liked him, you know,

when, but you were really broken up by that. And so that was the first time I think I ever remember seeing you like emotionally distressed. And it lasted at least a week, you know, which isn't a tremendous amount of time, but it was a tremendous amount of time as far as I was concerned. Yeah. So it was a tremendous amount of time as far as I was concerned. Yeah, so it was, he was pretty important. Yeah, so who, why was he so important to you?

What was it about him? And you really just sit with him? with them. I think kids have have a real relationship with their grandparents if they are fortunate enough to have them around and you know I can remember walking three steps behind the M all over the farm. So you trailed around behind him? Day in and day out. Uh huh. And that was fine with him. Yeah. Or was it more was fine with him?

Was it more than fine? We need to go home. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's something. I mean, I remember the day, for example, we went out and rode on this now He was quite a handy person and quite a creative person Mechanically, I mean this

This potato harvest year he built it while you could drive it and I don't really remember how it harvested potatoes But he had built it pretty much from the ground up if I remember correctly. Well, it didn't really harvest potatoes. It was built so that you could drive it in a potato patch without driving over the rows. It had quite a bit of clearance and outrigger wheels on it. Right.

And it mainly had pulled implements that harvested potatoes. I see. I see. So it was a custom built tractor in some sense. It was a custom built tractor, right? Right. And he did work in the blacksmith's shop. Oh, he was a good blacksmith. Yeah. And it was probably one of his, I guess you'd call it a

vocation. Cause if it rose raining or if it was miserable, it was pretty easy to find grandpa and me in the shop. Because there was usually a fire on in there and the building wasn't very large, so it was warm and there was always lots to do. What did you do in there? I especially for him. Yeah. What did you do in the blacksmith shop? Oh, I can't remember now. There was always stuff to do in there. There was lots of junk

pieces lying around. We had a... I don't know what you'd call it, but it was a wheel mounted on what was like stationary bicycle, and you used to be able to get onto it and pedal so that the wheel went around, and then you could sharpen your sickle or your ax or your knife or a stick or whatever you had, and you could spend a lot of time at that when you were seven or eight years old. And what sort of tools did he make in the Blacksmith's shop? What sort of tools? Well, I can remember in building a green elevator, we'd call it like an auger for grain. And I think as I remembered, he built the suit and wasn't awfully big. It probably only lifted the grain maybe 12 feet, something like that. But it worked sort of like, it didn't work like an auger.

It had a belt in it so that it just picked up the grain and moved it along on a belt that had, I don't know what could golem even, paddles of foot type on them. Yeah. He was always building something. So was it from him that you learned how to use tools and to appreciate tools because you like to build things mean you've gunsmith. Oh, I think, yeah, I think it probably was to a large extent. Due to him. Did he teach you explicitly? Or did you, did he teach you explicitly or did you pick up most of it by watching?

Well, both. I'm sure that you probably made sure that I was kept busy and out of trouble while I was in the shop and you know that probably involves straightening nails and God knows what else. Right, so you had small productive jobs to do while you were hanging about with them. Well, they were, you know, a job is what the body is obliged to do. Yeah, yeah, this wasn't a job. If it's not obliged to do it, then it's fun or play.

Mm-hmm. And so that's kind of how you remember that as play. Well, I remember that's a good time, yeah. Right. So he was easy to get along with for you. He was good to me. Yeah. Yeah, very good to me. How about your grandma? Grandma was great. Yeah. How? What was great about you? Well, well,

she was extraordinarily kind. I can't ever remember her Disciplining me other than maybe shaking her head or something She taught me how to read at the early age We used to do homework together There were always treats. Who knows? She was very kind. She taught you to read. So that was how you learn to read.

Yeah. I don't really remember learning to read. I mean, I always had people reading to me. My grandfather read to me a lot. So did mom. So did my grandmother. I can remember reading the comics. That was very important.

You know, the cats and jammer kids and little abner and that kind of thing. You know, for a long time, I didn't read it. They read it, but after a while, well, I don't know, you've kind of picked it up. So did people, I can remember, go ahead. Did people in your house read a lot

when they had some leisure time? I wouldn't say a lot, because there wasn't all that much leisure time. And you know, for many years, we did got dark. It was dark inside the house too. Kirsten laughs didn't throw very much light. Right. Did you, was there ever electricity in the cabin that you grew up in up till the time you left? No. So that was all caracene. Caracene and later gas lamps. Right. Which were a little brighter. Yeah, they were considerably brighter. Right. And so it never had, it never had power. Right. So people were up at dawn, I presume, and then while in bed, while when it was dark and in the winter,

that would be pretty early. Yeah. So you had a lot of time to spend by yourself if you wanted to wander around out onto the fields and into the nearby woods and you're late nearby. No, sluice, which aren't as deep as lakes, I guess, similar, but there were lots of slews around, and slews always had wildlife around them. Yeah, I wandered around a lot when I was kid. I think I knew every bush within about five miles of home pretty intimately. Do you mean every tree? Well, not every tree, but I wasn't about to get lost in it. Yeah, well, there's something about that exploration

you do when you're a kid that really familiarizes yourself deeply with a place. I don't know if you ever do that again in your life when you move. You know, like I can remember the houses around the house I grew up in in Fairview, far better into my imagination than I can picture the houses in this neighborhood, like far better. Even though I only lived there for eight years and I've lived here for almost 20, I still have a much better map house by house in my head of the immediate neighborhood. I think when you're a kid, you pay attention to things in a different way than you do when you're an adult because everything's so new.

Yeah, yeah. And, well, I believe you're right. I think kids pay attention to what's going on. Yeah, I think we're at what? Well, you kind of, your perceptions get kind of generic, you know, after you've seen 300 houses, you sort of know what a house is. And you don't have to look at it anymore. You just sort of replace it in your imagination with an image of a house. And that works as a placeholder. But you don't know the back alley in detail like you did when you were a kid. And I think you really lose a sense of familiarity because of that. That deep sense of belonging to a place is associated with

that really detailed exploration. Like, I've noticed in the houses I've moved into, in apartments, that unless I any corner that I haven't cleaned, any drawer that I haven't organized is kind of foreign territory in some sense. It's not friendly to me. But if I get in there into the details and explore completely the house, which I'm trying to do with this house, you know, we renovated it two years ago, three years ago, but I was so sick, I couldn't remap it. And it seems really foreign to me. And I'm not happy in the house because I don't really understand the house. It's alien to me. Yesterday, I spent eight hours cleaning out a closet that was full of stuff.

I hadn't been able to touch for three years. That was a great relief. I like my closet now. I know exactly what's in it. I know exactly where everything is. I put it there. I touched everything. I put it there. Like I sort of touched everything. It's mine now.

Whereas before it was just this place that was full of stuff. I didn't understand and a bunch of work that I hadn't done. And you know, it was leery of it. There's still a lot of the houses like that. So I'm still not comfortable here. But I will be. I'm before I leave in January. We're going to go through every square inch of it and hopefully put it in order. It makes you much calmer to know the way you're going in January. I'm going on tour.

Oh, oh, oh, oh, going to Washington first for week or 10 days. Right. I understand. Hey, and I talked to Joe Rogan the other day. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm booked on his show in Austin on the 24th. 24th of? 24th of January, just before the tour starts. It starts on the 25th. Yeah, it was really good to talk to him. I always enjoyed listening to those. Yeah, well, Rogan, he's quite the guy. He's uh, he's done a lot of things. He's tough. He's smart. He's funny. Uh, doesn't take any nonsense. He's nobody's fool. Uh, and he's even handed with people and generous and he's a good guy like he really is a good guy

He deserves his success. You know, he's been a successful Marshall arts fighter He was a successful host on a couple of TV shows. He's been a successful stand-up comedian And then he's been this ridiculously successful YouTube interviewer and podcaster If you don't get successful at five different things without being pretty competent. So yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing him and he's a courageous sort too. And he's fun to have a conversation with because he has this great sense of humor. So back to your grandfather, you spend more time with your grandfather then with your dad? Oh yeah, way, way more. And why was that dad? Why wasn't? Yeah. Why do you think it was? I mean, was that part for the course in those days?

I mean, sometimes kids spend more time with their grandparents if their parents are out there. I think, kids spend more time with their grandparents if their parents are out there. I think I think I think grandfathers probably have more much time with dad at all. Did you get along with them when I was young, but as a teenager I would have to say no, I didn't get along with them very well. Why? Well, I guess I was probably as headstrong as he was Who knows what sort of things caused conflict? I guess down near everything

Now you were you were at the farmstead until you were nine and then the family moved into NACIM. And how big was NACIM at that time? Oh, it probably was 400 people maybe. And how much different was Naked when I got to know it when I was a kid from the Naked Immigrant? Well, I don't think it was, I don't think it was an awful lot different. I guess there probably were some things you wouldn't do anymore when you were there that we did it commonly every day. Never thought anything about it. Like what? Well. I never thought anything about it. Like what? Well, can you imagine a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, the co-op store to buy some ammunition,

taking the gun into the store and saying, I need a box of shorts, 22 shorts, and the people behind the counter wouldn't even blink tonight. They just give you a box of shorts and take your 50 cents from you. I wouldn't try that one when you were there even. No, nobody was doing that then. No. So that's part of that freedom that you described. Yeah, freedom and common sense, I think, is Yeah, freedom and common sense, I think, is, uh, was a little bit more... Common then. Yeah, well, I wondered to some degree, I wondered to some degree, I thought that tried to think that through. I mean, people were working physically and directly in a way that they don't so much now.

You know, you're on that farm, you're contending with animals. Well, you're contending with the cold, you're contending with the heat, you're contending with the light for that matter. I mean, everything's work, but you're directly related to that work, right? I mean, there's an immediate payoff, you go out and the chickens are there, and you have eggs, and you go out and milk the cows, and you have milk, and you out and milk the cows and you have milk and you turn it and you have butter and you turn the caracene light on and you have light and you light a fire and you have heat. You know what I mean is the it's hard work in some sense but the reward is instant plus it's really real. It grounds you to the actualities of things.

And then you know people were younger when they had their families. And so, I think they were more likely to grant their kids because they were a little more wild, let's say, being young, more likely to grant their kids a certain degree of independence, because they were still young and wanted to have fun. And then most people had more siblings than they do now. Yeah. And I think one of the reasons that people are more helicoptery around their kids now is because they wait till they're 35 to have them. And so they're older that by then and more cautious.

And then they only have one or maybe two. And so they don't have 10, you know, it's like, you're not gonna stay on top of 10 kids. That's not gonna happen. I don't think you can stay on top of 10 kids. That's not going to happen. I don't think you can stay on top of four. And so that means to some degrees, the kids raise themselves, right? In sibling groups and the parents supervise, but sort of from a distance. And I think you probably get a lot more realistic view of the world and your

place in it when you're wrestling for position with like six siblings. It's hard to be special in that situation. I mean, your siblings aren't going to like that. So you never know what these shifts cause and that common sense, it seems to me that's associated with like a grounding in real things and not this tendency we have now to sort of float off into abstractions. Yep. Yeah, because even when you're trying to build something and you're building it out of wood, let's say, because I built lots things out of wood.

It either works or it doesn't. It's really the proof of the pudding, so to speak, is right there in front of you. You can't delude yourself into thinking your table top is flat and straight when it's not. It's either flat and straight and the table is stable and looks half decent or it isn't. So, yeah. Yeah. I even thought, you know, in my generation, a lot of the young men tinkered with cars because you could, right? You could understand a car with a certain amount of work and you could figure out how all the parts worked and you could even repair them. They're like

yourself. Sometimes you had to buy a part, but sometimes you could repair them and you could figure out how all the parts worked, and you could even repair them. They're like yourself. Sometimes you had to buy a part, but sometimes you could repair them, and you had to take them apart and put them back together. And if you didn't put them back together correctly, they didn't work. And now cars are so sophisticated that, well, they never get the hood open. No, well, they never break down virtually. I mean, they know what they do. Well, they run a long times, but you certainly can't toy

with them like you once did. They're not immediately at hand in the same way. So I liked Naked. You know, I thought Naked was a fine town. It was quite a nice town. It had a lot of brick buildings. When I was a kid in the early 70s, the downtown was still thriving. There was a butcher store that was thriving. There was a movie theater. There was a dairy that sold milk. And if I remember correctly, at that time, there wasn't anybody who ran the dairy. There was just a refrigerator. And if you wanted milk, you just got the milk and you put your money in it, basically, what was it, tin can? There were no locks on the door or anything like that. That's just how people did it.

And that was a sort of community of probably 2,000 people, something like that. Oh, not that many. Well, but surrounding Nakeda as well. Maybe you're right. Maybe you're right. Yeah. No, but by that time, there was no dairy and nake them. No, that that

Milk came from milk, which was 30 miles away, right, but that's still how it was sold. Oh, that's that exactly how it was sold Yeah, the proprietor of the theater was real Smith and the theater was real Smith. And he had a great trust in people, I guess, and he said he lost very little money that he was aware of. Yeah, well, he'd know if he made a profit at least, and certainly he didn't cost him in staff. So maybe, and you never know, maybe, you know, any conceivable, but probably not the case that the odd pilfer might have actually needed something to eat, I suspect no, because that isn't necessarily what drives people to pilfering. But yeah, I thought Naked was a real nice little town.

And so, and it was, you know, the streets were nice and straight and the houses were well built. It was quite a thriving little community. It had nice brick school. That's where you went to school. So, so, who, everyone moved into NACA at the same time? Your grandfather? No.

No. Oh, okay, how that work? Well, my grandfather and grandmother were the ones who moved into into Fairview and Naked. Yeah, Naked. They moved into Naked. And I'm not sure why I ended up there, but it probably had something to do with my grandfather and grandmother. Anyway, I was in about grade three, I think, when I joined them in Nathan and went to school

there. And mum and dad and the girl stayed on farm. It sounds like we're really separated, but the distance was about four and a half miles. And it wasn't as though you didn't see them every day, because most days you did see them. And was that an okay separation for you were you were you unhappy about moving from the farm were you happy to be moving into Naked with your grandparents. Yeah. I told you I got along with my grandfather and my grandmother exceptionally well.

And what about you? They probably. Mom, I got along quite well with mom. She was very kind too. And what did she think about you moving into town away from her? I really don't know Jordan. I don't know. I know what you thought about it. Well it was clear that she loved you beyond belief. I mean, I remember one time we were playing cards up at the lake in Saskatchewan and grandma

was up there. This isn't that many years ago, maybe 15 years ago, something like that. And so you would have been 70, I guess, 68, something like that. And so you would have been 70, I guess, 68, something like that. And grandma would have been, well, in her late 80s, and we were playing cards. And oh, you were getting teased. I think Julian was teasing you.

And I think maybe I was teasing you. And grandma said, don't you pick on my walley. And she meant it. And I thought, oh, this is funny. She wouldn't have said Wally. She just said Walter. Yes, that's right. That's what she said. Don't you pick on my Walter? Well really cracked us up, you know because Wow, you know you were 70-year-old grandfather by that point and she's in her nearly 90 and it was just like listening to a 20-year-old woman maybe talk about her four year old

kids like don't pick up my wall. Mom definitely spoiled me. Yeah well so she probably missed you when you left. Yeah she probably did but like I said you know it wasn't as though we were gone for any length of time. At the very most, it would have been a school week, you know, and probably, well, for a good part of the year, it probably wouldn't have been that because my grandfather always went to the farm every day. always went to the farm every day. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

I know, I know there was something extraordinary going on. So, did they move into town because they finally had the financial resources to have two houses? Well, again, Jordan, I honestly don't know. I would suspect that that might have been the case. Yeah, well, those are pretty cramped. Those are pretty cramped living quarters. Did you get along with your, did you get along with your sisters?

Well, I can, I could say yes, and I could probably say no. Okay. On hold, I think we got along relatively well. How much age difference was there? Well, Betty was two years younger than me, and Judy was seven years younger than me. Yeah, well, seven years is a long gap. How did she was very spoiled?

With Betty or Judy? Judy was very spoiled because she was the youngest. No, Betty was the in-between girl. Right. Right. So when you were out in the farm, did you have a lot of friends, or was it mostly activity that centered around the farm? Oh, had friends, but you know, they weren't, they weren't right next door. Right. You know, they were, they were miles away, but you had, you know, they weren't right next door. Right. You know, they were miles away.

But you had, you know, you had, you had the occasional friend that would come over. And I had a good school friend called Helmer of Wonderbum. And Helmer could really ride. He used to ride over on his horse every once in a while, and we would go for a ride around with him. Me on the horse that I rode, not very well, and Helmer clinging to it like a command sheet. So how was it that he got to be a better writer than you? It's more practice.

More practice, I guess, yeah. And so Helmer was probably more of a cowboy than I was too. So what made you not a cowboy? I mean, you'd like to carry your 22 rifle downtown into Naked. And that sounds like a pretty cowboy thing to do. So what was the difference? I don't know. I really don't know what the difference was. Difference in differences people. So you could read before you went to school?

Yep. Did you like to read? Obviously. Why are you stayed with it? What do you mean by that? Well, I don't think you do things that you don't like for very long, do you? If you like it, you do more of it. So are you read? Were you a reader in comparison to your friends? Or was that a rather common pastime? Because when I grew up, most of my friends didn't read, you know, not much.

So I was very different. Well, yeah, the difference so was that I didn't know what my friends were like at home very much. Even when I went to NAICM to school, I can't say that I really knew very much about very many of my friends as far as their reading went. One maybe. Anyway, yes, I could read before I went to school. I can tell you one thing that I can remember quite well. I learned how to do cursive writing. And this is before I went to school too. My grandmother had a really lovely hand.

And so did my grandfather. You could tell that they were taught how to write. Anyway, I was copying a comic. And I was doing it from the print to cursive writing. But what I didn't know was that you stopped between each word. That sounds pretty damn simple, but I can remember that asking my grandmother, how does this work now? How do I, how do I, well, what do I do when I come to the end of this work

and start the next one? Just connect them and keep going? Anyway, just on this side. Well, it's simple when you learn it, but it's not necessarily obvious when you haven't learned it. So it's great. Did you like school?

Yep. Did you like school all the way through school? No, no, I'm sure there was periods of time and when I was a teenager that I would sooner have been out farming or out helping on the farm. In fact, I think I've got one report card that says something to the effect that if water attended more regularly, he would do much better.

And that would have been due to your hype. Yeah, that was probably about grade 9 somewhere in there. So what did you do when you skipped school? That's, I never do that. You see, I hardly ever skipped school. And every time I did, God damn it, you caught me. I did it like three times. One time I drove to Heinz Creek. Oh, three times.

Really, it wasn't very, I tell you, it wasn't very often. One time I drove to Heinz Creek to get away from you. I thought I'll drive to Heinz Creek. He's not gonna find me there. And then on the way back from Heinz Creek, you drove by and waved at me. Said, Oh my God, he caught me again. So ridiculous. You weren't very, you weren't very inventive.

Not, not, not regard that's for sure. No, no. So why did you stay with school? You graduated. Was that calm? Was that the standard routine? Was, what did most people graduate? Or did most people drop out grade nine or grade 10? I again, I don't really know I

would think that the majority of kids of my generation probably finished school probably finished school. By going by that, I mean, going to went to grade 12. Not all. I mean, I can remember several of my friends dropping out prior to graduation, you know, in the grades before.

But a good many of them finished school. Yeah, almost all my friends from junior high dropped out. You know, most of them went, many of them went and worked on oil rigs and you could understand that to some degree. But I have a completely different job. Jobs, jobs probably weren't that plant-in-full at the time I got out of school or was in school. Great grandpa had a band. Yeah, I wouldn't say he had a band, he was in the band. What was the band? Do you remember the name of the band?

No, hell no, I don't know that. That's way before my time. Well, they still play that. I can remember seeing them play in the living room. One or twice, you can remember some of them playing. Uh-huh. I think the majority of the ones that he played within the band were probably long gone, disappeared. Was it, was it a big band? Oh hell, I have no idea.

I don't even know if you'd call it a band. I'd call it a bunch of guys that got together to play for dances. Yeah, well, that was a pretty good guitar player. And he could sing. Yeah, well, I can remember grandpa singing. I mean, we don't have, I don't think we have any recordings of him singing, which is too bad. But I can remember him singing. Yeah, he had a pretty plaintive country voice and he was pretty good guitar player. He made me a guitar grandpa.

Yeah, I've still got it. It's downstairs here. I know. It's in two pieces. What happened was that in the closet, it was strung too tight. And the neck eventually worked loose from the body. Oh. I don't think they knew that.

Yeah, that's what happened to it. I guess you're not supposed to leave a tightly strong guitar like that for too long or perhaps I'd strung it too tightly knowing very little about, very little about guitars. Yeah, anyway, it's sitting behind the chair, down the basement. When did you meet mom? I would imagine that I probably met her when I went to integrate three in NACA. What do you think of her? I think that I thought she was wonderful right off the bat. You think that? Well, yeah, I kind of do.

I thought that about Tammy. Yeah, well. Yeah. I was right too. Ha ha. Yeah. So was I. Well, good.

Good for us. Yeah. What the hell do you think accounts for that? Good luck. Yeah. She told me she kind of knew too. She told me she kind of knew too. Well, I don't know. I don't know that Beverly knew. I mean, we weren't always good friends even. But were you in the same grade? or was she one great lower than you? It was one great lower than me

right It's Tamm and I were in the same grade so she was a year older than me because I was younger for the great But so we were that that facilitates a friendship being in the same grade. Oh, yeah Yeah, yeah, but don't forget, we were in the same room. Oh right. As the other grade. Oh right. At least three grades in a room. So we were probably in the same room When did you start going out? Well, I think the first time we went out, we had been to a birthday party across the road from where we lived in Nacom. Some kind of a game she had to walk me home, which really entailed walking across the road

and a little bit farther. So if you count that one, we were probably 10, 11 maybe. Hmm. Obviously you count. Obviously you count that one. Yeah. When was the first time we went out? I think probably it was, I think I must have been through school, grade 12, or past grade 12.

And for some reason, I knew that Beverly was babysitting at her brother's place that evening. And so I went and knocked on the door and said something with you like to done my mirror or I don't know what. Anyway, I think that's the first time I that we were together that way. And then I think we were together most of the time after that. What drew you together, do you think? Why was she attracted to you? Do you know? Oh God only knows that. that. Well, you were you were pretty good looking. Oh, yeah, I was really handsome. Yeah, no, I don't, I don't, well, maybe you'd out with it. No, I don't know. She probably made a big mistake. But anyway, you have your good qualities. Not just life. Yeah, fair enough. What drew you to her? Yeah. Hey. What drew you to her?

What? What drew you to her? What drew me to her? Well, I told you. I always thought she was something special. And I probably followed her into Saskatoon when she went to take nursing. That was probably my main motivation.

So you said that you graduated high school and then you basically followed mom to Saskatoon. Were you planning to go on to further education? Yeah, I think I was. to be a teacher. Oh. Ha. I don't know. I had a, you know, I had a couple of really good teachers in high school. And maybe that was part of it, I don't know. Joe Fluff and Ops and Frank Duplott. What made them good? Well, they were just, they knew their subjects well,

they taught well and they were good people. You know, they were easy to get along with them. Yeah. Did you? I did a lot of, I did a lot of marketing for Frank. On the weekends, that kind of thing. Maybe that was part of it, I don't know. These were men you respected?

Yep. Yep. Still do. These were men you respected? Yep, yep, still do. What made them good teachers? Well, I told you. Oh yes. They really knew their subject matter. They were interesting to listen to, and they were just good people.

And so you moved to the city. How often had you been to Saskatoon before? I mean, that was a pretty big city by Dinkham standards. How many times had I been there before? Oh, I would guess you could probably count it on one hand. So what do you think of Saskatoon? It was fine. I want to go in one hand. So what do you think is Saskatoon? It was fine.

Were you excited to be in the city or would you prefer, what have you preferred the small town in the farm? Oh, at that time I think I preferred the city. I mean, there was lots of, you know, there was lots going on and that kind of thing. Did you have a good time in university? Did I have a good time? Yeah, I think so.

I had a car that wouldn't start when it was cloudy, but yeah, most of the time it was good. Why wouldn't it start when it was cloudy but yeah most of the time it was good. Why wouldn't it start when it was cloudy? Don't ask me. It was the most perverse beast I ever had. So how old were you when you asked mum to marry you? You mean the first time? How many times did you have to ask? Oh hell, I must have asked her. I have no idea how many times. Oh yes, I bet you know exactly how many. How many? No, I don't know. I tried to talk her into marrying me a number of times. And she wanted to be a nurse, and that was the first thing to get done. But yeah, no, I asked her, I asked her more than once.

I'm sure. I think I asked Tammy five times. Well, I don't think you have the record, but I'm not sure. She asked me once too. So that worked out okay, the final analysis. Oh, well, I don't, don't know. She actually, well, she had come to Montreal to live with me and

then we had discussed getting married, but she felt it was time and she actually asked me on, isn't it Sadie Hawkins Day, isn't that? Yeah. Yeah, we didn't even know it. We didn't even know it. It just happened that way. We didn't even know it. No, so that was pretty funny.

Little, little lobster, little armen, or it mirror was a kiss is real Santa Claus, you know. Yeah. Yeah, so and I said, it was a good deal. It was it was a good deal. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good deal. Would you would you say that you've had a happy marriage? Yeah, but I would say I have had a happy marriage. What was more important to you, your family or your career? No doubt at all, family. What was the best part of what was the best years you spent with your family? Well, I think the best years were the years that you guys were home and growing up. They were great years. And of those years, younger kids, older kids, what was better for you? Oh, I can't say that because it was all good.

No, there's no doubt that was the best time of my life. Why? Who knows why? Come on, I think it's instinctive for some people. Yeah, well, you're really good with little kids. Well, there was no doubt. You seem to trust them. Well, I seem to be relatively good at that. Yeah. And most little kids trusted me. Yeah.

Not very many that I had shy away from me. So you spent a lot of time with me when I was little kid. Yeah. What do you remember about that particularly? Huh. What do you remember about that particularly? What can I say? What do I remember about it? I don't know. I remember quite a few things, but I don't know if any of them are God also important, you know, well pick one there Well, I remember the time that we hatched those chicks

in the porch in Nippewa Didn't that one. Yeah, that was cool. That was that was interesting pretty good. Yeah I remember driving home with you to Nacon a number of times and Talking the whole time because you'd never stop asking questions. Yeah, well hasn't changed much No, I know You kind of are who you are. Yeah, that's right. No, there were lots of good times, Jordan.

All good times. I think I remember mostly when I was little kid reading with you. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, that was great. That was so much fun. I thought so. That's what I remember. I was pretty little but what I remember is that, well, first of all, we had a doctor, Sue's book, come every week or something like that because we were in a book club and used to come home every, every night. And after dinner, we would sit, lay on the rug, we had a hook, one of those hooked rugs. And we'd lay on the rug and you'd put your arm around me. And way we go through one or two books. And you taught me to read, no, and I remember that going on for quite a long time.

And it was wonderful to have the attention. And well, and to be given that gift of literacy as well, and have it instilled in me in such a young age. You know, I mean, I love reading. It's really shaped my life in every possible way. So, you know, and I remember, you know, one of the things that was different about you, we had our differences when I was a teenager.

It sounds kind of like the ones you had with your dad, you know, or both stubborn. And I, you know, I had hanging around with rough kids. And we misbehaved a lot, a lot of drinking and that sort of thing, you know, and you put up with them. That's about all you should have done, really, I suppose. But most of my friends, you know,

they didn't have a good relationship with their fathers. They had no respect for them. And it was, yeah, it was really rough on them, those, those my friends, those are my teenage friends, or you know, the ones in junior high. Yeah, I know. And you know, when we were alone with my friends, they'd have a bad interaction with their dad or something and they'd be pretty hard on it, met bad mouth them. And I could tell they were mad, bitter, resentful, angry about it. And they had the reasons or hurt by it or a combination of all those things disappointed.

But I never felt that way. I mean, even when we had altercations. Yeah. I knew that fundamentally, despite whatever altercations we might have, that you were on the side of my better angels, let's say. Well, that's a tricky thing to manage. Always that. Yeah, but it's a tricky thing to manage because when you have kids, you kind of, on the

one hand, you want to like the kid, you know, but on the other hand, you want to like the kid that they could be even better. So you have to kind of balance that acceptance for an appreciation for who they are right now with a desire to foster further development. And I think mother sort of specializes in the former and dads to some degree specialize in the latter. It's not that cut and dried obviously. But the fact that you had belief in my potential was has always been of inestimable value. And one of the things that really hurt me when I went on tour and talked to so many people

was that that was so lacking for so many people. You know, they didn't have someone who really had their back like really when the chips were down, both you and mom, I knew of that. I knew that that was true. And that gives you kind of a foundation underneath you, you know, are you obviously had it with your grandparents and your mother?

Yeah. I don't know what it would be like to grow up without that, you know, you'd be pretty lost, pretty alone. Yeah, well, there's no doubt it would be toughs. Anyhow, we always mum and I always said we were young and dumb. So everything go as well. Yeah, well, what's been the most challenging part of your marriage, Dad? What's been the most challenging part of being married?

Does he be married how long now? I don't know, 60. I don't know, 64 years, something like that. Yeah, well, that's a long time. We've been married in 60. What does that make it? 61. 61. Yeah, it? 61. 61. Yeah, it just feels like 64.

Yeah, it just feels like 64. Yeah. Yeah. Most challenging thing, Jesus. I don't know. I guess maybe the most challenging thing is trying to be a decent person because I have a lot of trouble with that. What do you mean? Well, just that. What do you have to control? Well, I... I'm very stubborn.

I guess probably quite opinionated. And very vocal all those things can cause problems and I know that they've caused problems for your mom. Yeah well mom's kind of gentle person, although she's got a spine. Yeah, she's a good person. Yeah, she is a good person. She's easy to get along with. She laughs a lot, friendly, outgoing. Yeah, I can't, I can't every remember really having a fight with mom, you know.

And when the kids, when we were kids, and we used to make her upset, you know, because we were rambun around functioning around too much. And we made her upset that always made us feel guilty because, you know, mom didn't get upset. If you if you made mom upset, you were probably being bad. So we just feel guilty about it. So yeah, well, you know, being stubborn and opinionated and assertive has its virtues, too. Well, they have its virtues, but they are making it very difficult for us.

Yeah, well, it's not easy to negotiate continually with someone under the same house. And you and Mum are quite different in many ways too. So you have those temperamental divides to go to cross. I mean, she's more extroverted and social than you are. Yeah, I wouldn't say I was extroverted and social. No, well, you took my personality test, right? I mean, you were assertive on the extroverted scale, but low in enthusiasm, whereas mum is high in enthusiasm,

and not as assertive. So you remember things too long? Yeah, well, I was curious, you know. Yeah, well, it's probably true. Yeah, well, I didn't, you know, I got to say, when I grew up, I never saw you really back down. So that was something. No, you, I don't back down very often. And I'll be damned if I'm going to back down to this government or whatever in the hell we've got.

So when are we going to see each other again, do you think? Well, I guess when you come to see me, because I can't go anywhere, and I can't see, I can't see it changing. Yeah, I'm not very happy about that. No, I'm not neither. But I'm going to live with me too. Yeah, I know. I'll come up.

I got my two around pretty soon. Yep. I'll figure it out and come up. Good. Got anything else you want to say? What what what's the best relationships you've ever had in your life? The best released in jail. Yeah. The best release, didn't you? Yeah. Cole, I guess for me, your mother, you... Bonn, Joel. Yeah, well, you know, in our culture, kids, they get a bad rap, you know, but one thing, if you're

careful, you can have the best relationships you've ever had in your life with your kids. That's really something. The thing is they pay you back for you know people think of kids is this like interruption in their life or didn't convenience or no no that's no right they're the best thing to never happens to you if you're careful you're right. In the league. Off to the UK. Yeah. Yeah, before we can't talk.

Before we can't talk. Yeah. Off to the UK tomorrow. Yeah. Well, we wish you luck. Thank you. I don't think you need it, but. I like.

I'm a little. It's good to have some luck too. Yeah, it's gonna be a credibly exciting trip ridiculously exciting trip. It's a pretty good trip. I will. I'll call you. I'll call you. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC